The Rewatchables - 'The Princess Bride' With Juliet Litman and David Shoemaker

Episode Date: April 12, 2018

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and David Shoemaker celebrate the release of Ringer Films' ‘Andre the Giant’ documentary on HBO by revisiting the 1987 classic fairy-tale adventure ‘The Princess Bride,’ starring Andre The Giant, Cary Elwes, and Robin Wright and directed by Rob Reiner. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode is brought to you by Google Assistant. With the Google Assistant, you can complete over a million actions, on your phone, in your car, and around the house. When I sit down to watch TV in the evening, I don't want to fumble at the remote. I just ask the Google Assistant to start playing the show. I'm currently binging and begins to play on my TV. Download the Google Assistant today. Today's episode is also brought to you by Seekkeek.

It's the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more. For $20 off your first Seekkeek purchase on any game or sporting event, All you have to do is use the promo code rewatch. Download the Seatgeek app or go right to Seatgeek.com. Welcome to the rewatchables. I'm Juliette-Litman. I haven't been on this podcast in a while. I'm here with David Shoemaker.

Hello. I've been on once before. Only once. What was your other one? De Big Lubowski. I've never done a podcast with you before, which is actually kind of hard to believe. Yes. Judging by the amount of time we've spent together.

I know. I've had to say, work with you quite closely. This is exciting that we're doing the Princess Bride. I forgot to have to mention that. One of the greatest movies ever made. 20th Century Fox presents a new film by Rob Reiner, The Princess Bride. I'll never see you again.

Of course you will. But how can you be sure? This is true love. I think this happens every day? Hold it, hold it. Is this a kissing book? Wait, yes, wait. The Princess Bride,

a comic tale of true love and high adventure rated PG. It's a true cult classic. It's one of the, I think, like, That phrase is used a lot, but it's one of the earlier ones and one of the truer ones. It really does the cult following. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the true rewatchables too. I mean, there's very few movies that even that I love to death that, like, I could finish and then just push play again.

Yeah, absolutely. We're going to get into it. And one of the reasons we're doing it is because Andre the Giant, Andre Roussemoff. Yes. You're an, as I said I say it correctly. But you can just call him Andre the Giant or just big boss, Andre, whatever you want to say. Last night, Andre the Giant, the documentary, premiered on HBO, executive produced by Bill Simmons, our boss. So this is what we got Andre on the mind.

Plus, it's just like a good rewatchable. It's a fantastic movie. And of course, I mean, the documentary talks about, I mean, has a big section about the Princess Bride. It does. And part of that was just like giving the people what they want. I mean, I think that, you know, for a wider, for a non-wrestling audience, you know, that's that is the big, that's the, that's the big, that's the. most central thing that people know him for and, um, with good reason. That's the only way I knew him for a very long time. I didn't know he was a wrestler.

He was in like, he was in like commercials and stuff. I don't think I saw those. I don't know. First, he was just like the Andre the giant guy to me for a long time. Um, so yeah, well, let's just get into it. Let's begin with the context and the plot of where we were, where the world was when this movie came out in 1987. It was directed by Rob Reiner based on William Goldman's 1973 novel. and it famously begins with a young Fred Savage. What was the name of his show? The Wonder Years. Uh-huh.

What was his name on The Wonder Years? I can't remember. Kevin Arnold or Kevin Arnold or Kevin. Yeah, Kevin Arnold. He was not Kevin Arnold yet, but he was in this playing. He was sick and his grandfather is Peter Fock and he comes and he's like, I'm going to read you a book in my day. Before we had TV, we had books.

Which is funny because I think that still holds. Like, that's something like your grandfather would probably still say to you. like I read what do you do? Yeah, no, I think that's totally true. And also, I mean, it was, we'll talk about things that held up or didn't hold up, but later, but that opening scene in the room, he's playing a video game on just like the oldest TV, you know, I mean, it's definitely like a little bit of retro there. But their relationship, I thought was pretty, was pretty cool. It is cool. It's also like kind of, that's a rare one to see in a movie and TV, I think.

Yeah, definitely. They did that. They used that framing device to sort of, um, maintain the connection to the original book. Yeah. Because the book itself, which I have not read, have you? No, I've never read it. Me neither.

But it apparently has, like, a lot of, like, asides and sort of snark from William Goldman. Because it's, ultimately, the Princess Bride is kind of, like, a commentary on genre, a commentary on fairy tales on sort of the idea of, like, princes and princesses. And it's, like, set in, like, they're, like, kind of, like, a faux renaissance era. So it's a lot about, like, it's a meta-narrative as much as, like, an actual fairy tale. I think is why it has broad appeal. Absolutely. And apparently, well, it was adapted finally in 1987, but 14 years earlier when it first came out,

20th Century Fox had paid Goldman $500,000 for the rights to it, which isn't a lot of money for 1973. Yeah, that's a ton of money. A ton. But I guess Goldman was, I mean, he was already an established one of the great screenwriters around at this point, but was also writing novels or had written novels before and kind of went back and wrote them. So I'm sure he had a good agent to negotiate that.

$500,000 payday. Sure. What do you think he's, like, the most famous for? Like, what's his most famous thing? Oh, man. I mean, more than anything, it's just like, I just, he gets name checked. A lot. Yeah, more so than he's like, you know, you talk about something specific.

But he did all the president's men, right? And he did, uh, what, he did some, he was writing up until the, oh, the ghost in the darkness was one that I really liked at the time. He did the original Stafford Wives, which I think is, like, important to me. I mean, I, more so the. the remake, but as like a concept of step for wives, like a big deal. I don't know. He just has written a lot

of movies and, you know, Bill talks about him a lot as well. Yeah, and he was, he was like a technician. He could just, he knew how to write the perfect script if you gave him the source material. And also, he knew how to write apparently really good source material. He also he wrote

Screenplay for Heat, the 1986 Heat, which I feel like is often forgotten. A great Bert Reynolds performance. So, Anyway, they didn't make the movie after 20th Century Fox did not make the movie in 1973. So Goldman bought back the rights and ultimately Rob Reiner adapted. It was the director and adapted it and he was really passionate about the project. And sort of like the godfather of television, TV comedy, Norman Lear, was one of the producers on the show of the movie.

Which I did not know until I started researching for this movie. I had the same aha moment when I was when I was reading up on it too. And Carrie, I call him Carrie Elways. Let's go with that. At some point it became Carrie Elwis to me, but I did say Carrie Elways when I was like in high school. So I don't know. I don't know. Okay.

Well, I call him Carrie Elways. And he credits Norman Lear with like giving him a career because he's the one who like ultimately signed off on Rob Reiner's casting of him. And so Norman Lear is sort of like the grandfather lauding over this movie, which I think is appropriate. Yeah. It's pretty cool. It's pretty good. It's a, it's a, the backstory. I mean, it's not, it doesn't have one of these like tortured production processes except for the failure to make the movie the first time.

around but like the you know that's so common yeah I don't even consider it a failure it's like part of the process of like finding a home for the right screenplay I mean it's kind of crazy to spend $500,000 in the 70s and then not go forward with it but I think but it was it is a challenging project but I think because of what the way you described it before it's not just a genre piece it's not just a fairy tale it's a it's a it's a commentary on the form so it's you know the hardest thing to do and we see this in all different kind of genres the hardest thing to achieve in movie making is like self-awareness or like irreverent like true irreverence and it's a and they pull that off here so I can I can understand why it would be hard to kind of get the tone and

the cast exactly right that's a great segue into talking about the casting which we're going to do in a second but I just want to tell you $500,000 in 2017 last year would have amounted to $2.8 million dollars wow that's a lot for optioning a book I don't think you could get that in today's market I got to go back to writing books you are a great writer that is true um Okay, let's talk by the casting. So Carrie Always was a very early pick. Rob Reiner just wanted him from seeing him in Lady Jane, and he got the part. Robin Wright came to this at the quote-unquote 11th hour.

If you read interviews about how the casting of this film went down, you will see that phrase used often. Sure. She literally walked into one of their houses. Yes. Oh, is William Goldman. They were like... Yes, it was William Goldman's house, correct. And the Jane Jenkins, who was the casting director for the first.

film told the story to Vice back in the fall at the 30th anniversary of the film. And she said, I'll never forget this for as long as I live. The doorbell rang. Rob went to the door. And literally, as he opened the door, Wright was standing there in this little white summer dress with her long blonde hair. And she had a halo from the sun. She was backlit by God.

And Bill Goldman looked across the room in her. And he said, well, that's what I wrote. It was the most perfect thing. It's kind of funny because she is, I mean, we have, we've seen so much Robin Wright since this movie came out. Not enough, in my opinion. No, I agree. She's so fantastic.

But, like, that she has this reputation as such like a, you know, a serious actor, you know, I mean, she's such an icon now. Back, I mean, when she was cast with the movie, I know they were only looking at, I mean, at first they were only looking at British actresses, you know, so they could do the accent. So clearly she's an actor. I mean, she does a great job in the film, but that she was cast just, you know, according to the legend, based on one look at her backlit by the sun. You know, it's sort of ironic, given all she's done since then.

I know. She's played Jenny in Forrest Gump. That's probably her most famous role, right? Yeah, or House of Cards now. Yeah, but two, like, tortured women, one who is, like, also a torturer, I guess. I don't watch House of Cards. But she's got House of Cards, Forrest Gump. I happen to love the movie.

Isn't She lovely with Sean Penn, John Travolta? Yes, that's a good one. She, like, well, what are her other, like, big hits, like, that people know her from? her marriage to Sean Penn I know and then her short loved engagement to Ben Foster I enjoy that

yeah I totally forgot about that yeah you did I guess she I mean she's just had like a really long and like great career I remember also when white old Leander came out and I was in high school I was really into that

and she was great in Wonder Woman yeah oh my god that's the best part of Wonder Woman in the beginning yeah it was so so good but I think but it's true that they were cast and we'll talk more

I mean you'll talk about the other cast members but there's, I mean, clearly they were cast to type in a certain way, right? I mean, her copious acting ability aside, she looks like the perfect fairy tale princess, right? And Carrie Owes, always, regardless of what you think, I mean, you know, what your take is on him. And I was a big fan of his back in the day, just because I loved this movie so much that to me he was, like, I was, I remember being, you know, 14 or 15 and like just like really confused as to why he wasn't the star in every movie. movie, you know. But yeah, I mean, he looked like he, what was the movie that he was in? The British movie that got him this job?

Lady Jane. Lady Jane, right, which I'm sure was just a period piece or whatever. He played a character named Guilford Dudley. Yeah. Incredible. Carrie Alis was basically like the Matthew Good of his era. It's so true. And I have a hard time with that because I love Matthew Good.

And I find Carrie always to be like, not as good. He looks the part. And years later, then he played, you know, in Robin Hood, Men and Tights basically spoofed, like, Spoof the Spoof. Yeah. He's in a lot of spoofing of the spoof. I think because of this movie, he ended up in kind of a lot of like satire style stuff. Because he also was in this movie that I'm sure you have not seen Ella Enchanted, starring Hugh Dancy and Anne Hathaway.

I'm familiar with the movie. It's like a Cinderella story, but also a musical and also has Vivek A Fox. It's like totally bonkers. Yeah. But it's really, he plays like the, he plays the villain in that. He weirdly took a turn towards villainy after this, after like the 90s, basically. Yeah, well, I mean, it's sort of like the Mark Hamill thing. When you're just that like perfect blonde genre movie leading man, then there's not

always, if you don't become the biggest star in the world, there's not a clear path for you. It's true. Ten years later, he became, he did, is when he really became like the villain. He's in Twister, which is one of my favorite movies of all time. And I'm angry is not a rewatchable. But he's like, you know, he's the enemy of Bill Paxton in that. And then he's in liar, liar in 1997, one year later, where he's Jim Carrey's foil. And I just feel like those two roles really cemented him as like a go-to villain,

which is not a turn I would have seen coming after the Princess Brad. I remember the crush really well from 1993. The Alicia Silver Sun movie? Yeah. Yeah. It's a great one. Yeah, he was fantastic in that. That was her heyday, man.

I love her. Yeah, she was great, too. That was before Clueless, but after Arrow Smith. Yes. If I recall. That's correct. If I recall. It might have been before Clueless.

It was before Clueless, but after Arrowsmith. Yeah. She was already in the videos. she was like with Live Tyler Yeah Crazy but it also could have been filmed like three years before and just released because of the Aerosmith videos It's totally true Totally true

Anyway fantastic movie we'll do that on the rewatchable soon I'm sure Clueless No no no no I did Clueless I did it A lot of the like the casting sort of seemed like a foregone conclusion They're like Billy Crystal was cast pretty early Bany Patinkin was cast pretty early Chris Sarandon is at cast early

But the one other one additional to Robin Wright that was in question, was André the Giant. I did not have to miss. I believe you. So what happens now? We face each other as God intended. Sportsmanlike. No tricks.

No weapons. Skill again, skill along. And there's a little bit of Ander the Giant history here that I don't know about that. I was wondering if you could enliven for me, which is they wanted, he was their first choice. Mm-hmm. They called the WWF to ask him, ask if about his. availability. That's correct. So one question. Like, does the WWF, like, own express suit?

And then in the 80s, do they have, like, exclusivity for their talent? Like, why do they have to ask for their permission? I think there's a presumed exclusivity when you're on the road, like, hundreds of days a year. But also, like, I'm sure Under the Giant didn't have an agent. You know, if you wanted Vince McMahon, Vince's dad, Vincent. Senior. Yeah, well, they have different middle names, but he's called Vince Senior. Basically was his booker. Yeah. I mean, he, when he kind of took over Andre's career and he, they, He wrestled in Vince's East Coast territory, McMahon's East Coast territory, but then he sort of farmed him out to other territories around the country so that he could be a big special attraction wherever he went. So yeah, if you wanted to book Andre the Giant, you probably called WWE headquarters.

But he wasn't, I mean, but also it's like, the story is actually kind of similar to the Michael J. Fox, Back to the Future story where they had to call Spielberg, whoever had to call the family ties producers and say, can we have Michael. J. Fox and they're like, no, he works too much. Like, we need him every day. And then after they tried it with another actor, they went back to them and they're like, we will do anything to make this work. And they're like, okay, we will let you have Michael J. Fox to film this movie. That's correct. You didn't know that Michael J. Fox story.

It's so funny. It really was so much more of like a like a tendency, like a lord kind of situation. It wasn't old Hollywood, but it was a different era. Different era for sure. So they said no because he was. supposed to be fighting in Tokyo and he would be going to be paid $5 million for it. Yeah.

Do you know about it? Is that like part of the Andre the Giant lore? I don't know anything specifically about that. Now at this point in time, you know, that it does seem weird that you go to WWE. I guess they would have asked Andre and he would say, no, I have this other thing because he did have separate relationships at times with Japan, but I don't know the details of that.

It seems a little bit, that seems a little bit like one of those Andre's stories that's overinflated. Interesting. But it's wonderful if it's true. And also, Andre was, I think the story that I read was that the Tokyo deal fell through or something like that.

But as we'll probably get into this, as people who watch the documentary know, Andre had to have back surgery. And he was, he could, he had no ability to do physicality during the filming of the Princess Pride. Yeah. In the doc, Robin Wright tells the story about how like when he's supposed to catch her,

when she's falling out of the castle, whatever, had to, like, put her on a rig so that he wouldn't have to absorb, like, any impact because his back was so bad. And one of my favorite scenes in the movie, his fight with Carioa's, with Wesley, was they had to stage around his inability to do anything like crazy. If you look at the, if you look at the, there's one, like, wide shot where Wesley's on his back and he backs it and Andre backs into the giant stone to knock him out. That's just a dude in a mask. Like, you can clearly see the mask if you rewatch it. And all the close-ups were like Wesley was, or Carrie Always was standing on a box.

So, I mean, it was, he was in bad condition. So it was, it's kind of just, I mean, Andre's life is, you know, everything that he went through physically. It's a sad story. But it was almost serendipitous because the only reason that he was really able to do the movie is because he wasn't in shape to do anything other than a movie. Right. Yeah, he was like, almost like available by default. Yeah. It was just really sad.

It's a sad part of the Andre the doc. if you watch it. But so before they got him to commit, they went out to Kareem Abdul-Jibar, who was a fan of the book in the script, but it didn't work out. They also went out to Lou Forigno, but also didn't work out.

They met with a Scottish strong man, again, didn't work out. And then ultimately, Andro was available. They also went to the giant, apparently, from Twin Peaks. At least I read that on the internet. Who knows if it's true. This qualifies is our half-ass internet corner then. Yeah, no, but it's hilarious that, like, it's just the list of large,

than life people in Hollywood at that time was like eight people long. I know. And now there's definitely more options. I mean, like, who would it be now? Well, you know, I want to wait on that. We'll talk about an update later. That's sort of like, and it speaks to Andre, I think, like, the best casting story is about him. William Goldman was a huge wrestling fan, and particularly in Andre the Giant fan.

He wrote the novel with Andre in mind, apparently. And then when they went to cast it, he told, you know, the casting director or, or the director or whoever to find someone like Andre the Giant. And so they're like, why don't we just get Andre the Giant? Right. He was older at that point, but he still played the role really well. Yeah, he's a great part of the movie, which is a great transition into what's the most rewatchable scene in your opinion? I mean, the whole thing is so good.

No, no, no. I'm just prefacing it. But the movie just flows. The thing that surprised me most when I rewatched it last week was just how bare. bear, spare it is, sort of? I mean, there's so much going on, but, like, it's just, it's so well written and so well filmed. It's just one thing into the next, and there's not, like, it doesn't linger very much. It's true. There's not a lot of fat in it. It's a tight 100, or it's a tight 98 minutes, I believe.

Uh-huh. And it just, it goes from one to the other. And I, I think for me, like, the best chunk of the movie is from when Wesley, like, gets over on top of the clips and meets Enigo Montoya, up until when, while Sean dies from me. I think. I think that's right. I really enjoy the Enigamantoya showdown with the six-fingered man at the end. I mean, a lot of the last sequence is really cool, too. But I think that I agree with you. The best, most rewatchable sequence is his showdowns with the three bad guys.

Yeah, totally. And also it's almost like three set pieces. Like it looks like a play. This is one of the topic, one of the categories is what's age of the worst. And I would say that like the outdoor, some of the outdoor sets like look like a live TV musical, like the way that like the sound of music looks when that Carrie. That is true. And like is that is, is that intentional at the time? I like to think it was because it's sort of just like you, we said before, sort of taking the piss out of the genre.

And it's, you know, it's trans. And it's, and what we're seeing on screen is a, you know, book being read. So there is that sort of just fantasy, you know, community theater aspect to the whole thing. but it never really takes me out. There's a couple of times where like the rocks are clearly made a styrofoam. That's the worst part is the rocks for sure. But it does make it feel like a play and it sort of like puts all those people's acting chops on display. And the writing of the, yeah, I mean, the script, it's true.

I mean, it's very, it's like the scene with Carrie Always and Wallace-Shahn when they're having the showdown over the poison. Yeah, I mean, it's just like there's two camera shots, you know. It's just like one guy's face and the other guy's face. I guess there's like a wide shot too, but like it's a very, very simple scene. It's all about the kind of execution of this relatively simple but sort of brilliantly twisted story. I've come to realize that I love Rob Reiner movies. Like I just like everything he does is like in my zone. Most notably when Harry Metzally.

Yeah. But I just really love his movies. Like I think like his style that focuses on dialogue is just something I gravitate towards. I totally agree. He's really amazing. And his dialogue in the Under the Giant documentary was one of the best parts. Yeah, him and Billy Crystal just sitting in a room and just orating was pretty nice.

It's really cool when you see two people who clearly have a long creative partnership, like kind of like on their vibe together. Yeah. It's like it's fun. I find that fun to watch. One of my favorite parts of the documentary and I know we're getting too far afield, but is when it's like he's being interviewed. And then at one point the camera pulls back on Rob Reiner and you just really

realize Billy Crystal has been there the whole time, and Billy just hasn't said anything, but that goes to their relationship and also the respect that Billy Crystal has for Rob Reiner, that he's just sort of letting him go. Yeah. You know, if it was a different situation, I'm sure any comedian would be like trying to step all over

the other person to get their words in there. It's totally true. And I will say the next movie after the Princess Bride that Rob Reiner worked on, or he directed, it was when Harry Met Sally. Yeah. It's the beginning of a beautiful relationship for those two in this movie.

Although they had worked on This is Spinal Tap together before. Right. Was that Reiner's first movie? Spinal Tap? Directing it? I think, yeah, basically. And that's kind of like how he earned the right to do this by showing that Spinal Tap was a success. Christopher Gass was also in that. And he's also in the Princess Brad. In a very small role. It's a small but important role. I love Christopher Gast. Yeah, he's really great. Let's talk about what is age the best next. But first, let's talk about today's sponsors.

With Google Assistant, you can complete over a million actions on your phone, in your car, and around the house like this. Hey, Google, get directions to major domo restaurant. The best way to get to major domo by cars via Riverside Drive and will take about 34 minutes in moderate traffic. Download the Google Assistant today. All right, Shoemaker. Let's talk about what is age the best. Do you have an opinion? I'm going to be, I'm the worst co-host for this.

The whole thing aged so well. I mean, we briefly talked about some qualms before, but, I mean, part of it is just, it's fantasy, but it's not wedded to a certain period of time. time, like the Lord of the Rings already looks like it's of a very certain era, you know? It's true. When you go really hard for a certain kind of technology Yeah. It's obvious what year

that's from. And that's why I think that's like the fact that it sort of looks like a play is, it works to its benefit. If you wanted to remake it, you know, if you wanted to remake it, if Rob Reiner wanted to remake it with the same state of mind you had then, it would look exactly the same. Yeah. And that's a really

good point. Like when you go really hard. And you like use the most current technology, that technology is going to get outdated. Oh yeah. But with this, you don't have to worry about that. Plus, it's like it looks silly to watch. And by and that when it came out, that's all people could talk about. I know. Like him leaning back at everything. Yeah. Kiana Reeves.

And also because it's like set like in a fake Renaissance or whatever, it can take liberties with what's like the creatures that they encounter and whatever. Yeah. I will also say and this is a little bit counterintuitive. But if especially compared to current movies, I love the sort of roughness of this movie. Yeah.

I love that you can like, you can see, you know, you can tell that some of it is improvved in a way that even modern movies that are, like, people talk about this Judd Apatow movie was improv. The Princess Bride feels more improvved when Billy Crystal was talking. Yeah. You almost feel, like, there's a scene where Mandy Patank and like visibly reacts to what he says, you know? And there's also like just people walking through the scene at times, you know? I mean, there's, it's, it's, a lot of stuff happens in this movie that would be CGIed out today. Yeah. And I kind of like just the,

that it has, it's a little bit rough around the edges. It feels more real and it feels more, there's just more life to it. Sure. It's kind of sprawling. Like it does move from location to location, but the cast is kind of small.

There aren't like a lot of extras, except for the kind of like the court scenes, basically, when they're like getting married or whatever. Yeah, sure. I think it's another reason why it feels like a play. It's because of the small, tight cast, basically. Yeah, absolutely. I would say what's age the best is Robin Wright, 100%.

Like, like, literate. Literally. Literally, Robin Wright. Man was she beautiful then, and man is she beautiful now. I totally agree with that. You should bless me for destroying him before he found out what you really are. And what am I? Faithfulness he talked of, madam. Your enduring faithfulness.

Now tell me truly, when you found out he was gone, do you get engaged your prince at the same hour? Did you wait a whole week out of respect for the dead? You mocked me once. Never do it again. I died that day. She's the best. And it's so, you know, I forgot she was in Wonder Woman. and I like that movie fine,

but I love the first, like, 35 minutes when they're on the island. And a lot of that is because of Robin Wright. And, like, maybe her best environment is, like, in seclusion by the cliffs, you know? Maybe so. Maybe so. She's, I mean, she was really fantastic in this.

And really, whereas everybody else is sort of playing to a type, she just, and we talked about Cari Ellis. I mean, he was such a leading man. I mean, he had that, but he so was playing to, he was being, you know, Errol Flynn in this movie. Everybody's playing to a type,

but Robin Wright just sort of was the type. She was, she transcended it. She was like a natural beauty before that was even in Trent, a trend. And she still is. Yeah,

she's fantastic. I love her. The other thing that still scares me that I'm like, oh, this was well done is when she sinks into the sand and like that like weird like bore of some kind comes after them.

Yes. They're walking through the forest. The rats of unusual size? Yeah, I still get scared. Yeah. That is a, that's a, that's a really scary scene. And when he, when the rat bites Wesley, it's like a real injury.

That's the, I mean, it's, it's pretty scary. I still, like, don't like to watch that. I find it, like, gross. I, like, shield my eyes. I was watching this this morning. And I was, like, ugh. I'm going to fast forward here. Moving on to what is age the worst.

So you talked about the sets already. Yeah, we talked about the sets already. I think the other thing is, if this movie was to be made today, it would certainly have much more diversity. Like, the only person we've mentioned on this podcast who's not white, it's Cramer al-Duel Jabar, and he was not in the movie. He was not cast. And it's just like, it's hard to imagine the cast would just would be this homogenous-esque going, like, if they did it again in 2018.

Yes, that's true. And I think that applies to a lot of movies. But for whatever reason, I think because this is a movie with such a broad audience and can appeal to so many different people. Yeah. I mean, there would be a bigger effort to make it more inclusive. Yeah. I mean, I think that being made when it was made, or if it had been made a decade later, having an all white cast in a fairy tale movie would not have been shocking. You know, I mean, that's not that thing would deal.

But certainly if... And literally, like, all of Rod Reiner's movies are all white. Yeah. So... If they were made today, yeah, they would definitely rethink that. Although, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have just been ridiculous in the role. Yeah, it would have also, like, made him, like, sort of exotized him in a very uncomfortable way, I think. Like, it's almost like if you're going to have only white people and, like, include the giant.

is like the only white person basically. Like don't make him like some kind of like weird creed. Yeah, token like creature of some kind or whatever. But that like really stuck out to me as I was watching it. I think just because sort of like family, family oriented movies today are just a lot more inclusive, like for the better. Do we want to talk about recasting it? Sure.

Do you have any idea? Because I have no ideas. Like if this, you asked on the way in like why they hadn't remade it. Yeah, why haven't they remade this movie? I watching it could not think, not even as a movie. Like why not as a series? This could easily be 10 episodes And then if it worked, just keep going

It's a great point It also you could just create like a weird renaissance world Of like capers basically Yeah Meta narratives Yeah I mean I think There were probably a lot of writers out there That would love to do

Adventures in this world Because you're right, it's the capers It's the sense of humor You know it could be I mean it did world building In a way that in 90 minutes or whatever That like you know it took It takes other shows and movies

lots more time to do. Took Peter Jackson four hours times three. 12 hours. There's nobody that didn't. Nobody watches this movie and doesn't want to see the adventures of the Dred Pirate Roberts. Sure. That's a great point.

And particularly because he gives the backstory of like there's, it's dread Roberts is just like a title that passes down from person to person. You just like pick up an orphan and you make him a pirate. What do you think would be the hardest role to cast? Well, I feel like there are more options for giants now. Sure. I mean, there's half of Hollywood as former professional wrestlers trying to make a, Blake Griffin

But yeah Blake yeah There's a lot of basketball players It'd be very interested in doing that Honestly I think that I think that Buttercup is the hardest one Just like it was when they when they

You know Did it the first time They'd probably go through I mean it would be easy to cast her In a sort of rote way Sure But to find the perfect The perfect one movie

In person for the Helen of Troy of the movie Right the whole thing revolves around Her wonderfulness And her kindness and her beauty Right so those things are I mean, those are... It's funny that you say that because I actually don't think of the character as, like, kind.

Like, I think of her as sassy, actually. There are times where you wonder why Wesley loves her. But obviously, but you know why Wesley loves her. I mean, from a very, like, plain point of view, she's beautiful and she's the only woman around, you know, and she's rich and everything else. Was she rich? Yeah, she was, yeah, she was like...

Yeah, he was like her farmhand. Yeah. I never put the Helen of Troy thing together, but you're so right. In fact, not only she liked this beautiful woman, but Prince Hupperdank is scheming to turn her into like into a Helen of Troy that like basically started a war over her. Yeah.

I didn't even think about that. Wow, you're such a genius. I just said it off the top of my head. Wow, just came to me. Just came to you. So impressive. But yeah, I think that would be hard to cast. I don't know.

What do you think? Matthew Good is definitely Wesley. We've established this. Yeah. Although we saw on the crown. He's not a good blonde. So hopefully they would let him stay as a brunette. I think it would be really hard to recast the Walshawin character

because... I think you just have Wallace Sean. I guess. I don't know. I would move Wallace on to like a more token role just so he could appear. We'll talk more about him, I'm sure, because he's so good in it. But like, because he's so good and he leaves such a mark, I think it would be very hard to fill those shoes. Yeah, I think that's correct.

He's just, he's a scene stealer. Yeah. He's not, he's, I forgot that he dies early on. Like, I don't know how I could forget that. But he's such a huge presence in the movie. No, I was rewatching the movie, watching the scene in which he did. dies, it only occurred to me half through the scene that he was actually going to die. Because, yeah, he does have a big presence when you think about the film.

Huge. He's a huge part of it. I just think that would be really hard. I can't think up the top of my head of, like, a particularly chatty actor who could do it in the same way. No, it would be really hard. Yeah. Like, I'm going to say that he is not a nominee for the best he check performance by a role player, aka the Deionne Waiters Award, because he's not a role player. He's like, he's an essential cog. So I'm taking him off the table. No, then this either gets really easy or really hard after that, because if he's not a role player, then are we left with Susan Sarandon's ex-husband? Yeah, I think it's like Chris Sarandon, who plays Prince Humberdank, Billy Crystal, who plays like a voodoo man, Christopher Gest, who is diabolical.

There's a lot made in like the various write-ups of the movie that Christopher Gest is actually a lord or whatever in real life and that that was kind of a tongue-in-cheek. thing to put him. I don't think it mattered at all. That was the case, but that's something that people on the internet have written many times. I love Christopher Gass. And I just forget that he's married to Jamie Curtis all the time. Yeah, me too. Waiting for Grafts is just one of my favorite movies. Christopher Gess had had like a shockingly minor role in this. Very small. Yeah, he's only like the last third. I mean, it's a pivotal role in some ways, but it, but it, that could have been anybody. Yeah, a very small part. And he was running a lot of makeup, so it really

could have been anyone. That is definitely true. Also, like, would you say Mandy Patinkins, like, eligible for the, for the Dion Waders Award? Is he a role player? No, no. If Wallace-Shon's out, then Andre and Mandy are out, too. I think they are, too. I agree. Yeah.

I think it has to go to Chris Durandin just by the fact that I can't name anything else he's been in. Yeah. I mean, not to make this podcast entirely about wrestling, but there's, but it's really hard, you know, in wrestling that, you know, in wrestling that, you know, that there's a phrase that they say called showing ass. And it's like, it starts from like literally showing as that, like, for when a bad guy embarrasses himself to the delight of the audience, it's called, they refer to that as showing ass. I say. And Chris Sarandon does a beautiful job of that. Like, and nobody, nobody, like, everybody's overacting in a wonderful way in this movie, but he's not worried at all about just playing the biggest prick in the world. Yeah, he owns it.

He does a good job. Absolutely true. I would say he's almost eligible for the Apex Mountain Award, like the person at the top of his game. Yes. I mean, what else did you know better than me. I don't even know what else he was in. I just think that's really Carrie Always is at Apex, and he says that.

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, he had other good roles, but, like, it never got better for him than being Wesley. That's totally true. Like, it's just not even debatable. Like, I happen to love Robin Hood Men and Tites. As I said, I love Twister. But, like, and then I like, I like many of his movies, but he was only. like the leading man in like a heartthrob

one time in my opinion he was yeah I mean this is and part of it was the movie has just gone on and on and on it's a cult classic but it's just a classic now you know and this is yeah I mean he's he is he will be Wesley forever he also has just been dining out on it ever since

like he really which I actually appreciate sure when like a former star like has like one particular role they're really famous for I think they should own it like I don't like when they don't want to talk about it but he wrote a book he went back and did research and he wrote a book about making the princess bride Yeah

So this is like really his whole life Sure We gotta give him the apex mountain Otherwise we'd just be depriving him so much No he deserves it He definitely deserves it He was great Was there any unintentional comedy to you

This is a hard one because it's a funny movie Yeah I mean even a lot of the comedy Is like semi unintentional You know what I mean Like it's a little I mean not unintentional But it's tongue and cheek So there's not a lot

Like if there were anything unintentional I don't think I would know the difference Yeah One of the things that always comes up though is Andre the giant and the way he delivered his lines. Enough of that. Plessie.

Are there rocks ahead? If they are, we all be dead. No more rhymes now, I mean it. Anybody want to feel it? Right? So, I mean, they will, they did a lot of work with him for him to learn all the,

to, you know, learn the script and to be able to say it in such a way. Because Andre's, you know, speech is not easy, easy to understand. And so they recorded all the lines on tape And he walked around with a Walkman Like listening to the things he was about to say before he went on So he would like, you know, could get everything.

Yeah, Rob Reiner like read everything into a tape dictation tape recorder or a cassette tape And that's how Andre learned his lines. And it went really well, but he's still sort of unintelligible, right? I mean, there's still, there's a lot of lines that you can't tell exactly what he says Unless you have subtitles on. And I think there's a lot of unintentional comedy in that. That's true. If anybody else, even with the stuff you can't.

can understand. If anyone else delivered anybody want a peanut the way that he did, like, it would have not have been as funny. That's part of why he's so famous, right? Like, just like his whole being was so exceptional. Yes. Or just out of the ordinary. Yeah.

That he had that effect, even in this movie. Yeah, it was really cool. I would also just say that Carrie always being a heartthrob is funny to me. He was a heartthrob. I'm sorry, but I just, he's not for me. He's not my type. All right. I mean, to each his or her own, I guess.

My biggest unanswerable question about this is why did he wait until she was captured to come back to her? Like, why did Wesley wait until Buttercup was imperiled to come back to her? Like, he had a lot of time. And I know he kind of explains it, but not to the extent that I find. He was busy being a pirate. Okay. But also the story doesn't work any other way. And this is a story about stories.

Like, it had to happen. And along the same lines, if she were so in love with him, would that disguise really work? Oh, no. I mean, yeah. That's ridiculous. But that's the best part of, I mean, that's obviously a decision, right? Sure. I mean, if you, if they, it would be interesting if they remade it today, even if it was

remade as a comedy, if they would go further in disguising him to make that more of a, a plausible plot point? Sure. Do you think they would do that now? Would they have still? Because, like, I hated movies when they're wearing just like the eye masks and like, oh, I can't tell who you are. Right.

It's a real trope of fairy tale movies, though. Right. So it works in this sort of environment because it's not taking itself too seriously or whatever. But I bet if it were remade today, if, you know, Binif and Weiss took on the Princess Bride as their next project. Oh my God, I would love that. Oh my God. That's a great idea. Yeah. The Dread Pirate Roberts would probably be in like full face covered chain mail or something. At HBO, let's get on this. Let's be consultants on this. That's incredible. Another thing that occurred to me that I was just wondering about as I was watching is in the great scene between

Wallis-Shahn and Cario-Wis, they take the powder. It's called Iocaine powder. And while Sean's like, I built up a, or Carrie always tells Princess Buttercup that he built up a great immunity to it. And is that supposed to be a cocaine joke? It's called Iokane. I have no idea. But I bet it is. I mean, part of the, part of the what's sort of brilliant, I mean, I don't know if, I don't know if they, you know, if William Goldman, like, spent a lot of time workshopping the names he called various things. I mean, even like the Dread Pirate Roberts.

I mean, it's just like the really, it's just such a, such a. such a bold move to go with Roberts at the end of that. But I mean, I know there were pirates named Roberts, but like in this sort of like old England world, it just, it sort of stood out. Absolutely. Compared to the other names, Fazzic,

Fazzini, and Nigo Montoya. Exactly. Everything's so sort of alien, you know? And then, and this is just like, hey, this is the dread pirate Joe or whatever. But like,

I wonder if these were really deliberate comedic decisions that he made, that he thought long and hard about, or if it was just the first word that popped into his head, And then you make that work. But either way, it's sort of wonderful. It's got to be a cocaine joke. We've a few categories left, but I just feel we haven't really talked about Mandy Patank good enough. Okay.

Like, what's your, do you think he's, like, excellent in this movie? Is his signature role? Oh, yeah, he's fantastic. Like, why haven't I felt the need to talk about him more, though? Like, why have I not brought him up? We haven't talked about him and Kerry always spending months or weeks learning how to sword fight for real. They did. They did.

They did. According to the record. The only, like, the scene where they, like, do the gymnastic flip is a stuntman. Everything else is really them fighting. Yeah, they did it. Like, they learned together, basically. Yeah, which is. They took classes.

Which is really incredible when you watch it with that in mind. Yeah, I mean, Mandy Patankan, like, was the anchor of this movie in a lot of ways. Do you think he has the best catch line, like best catchphrase? Excuse me? Is this an official question? Yeah. No, well, kind of. It's best quote, but I think this is.

Yeah. My name is Nigem Antoine. You Kill My Father. I'm a guy. It's also inconceivable. as you wish. There's a lot of catchphrases. Oh, yeah, you're right, as you wish.

I like a movie with catchphrases. I like catchphrases in general. I think Mani Batankans was the best. That's the one that, I mean, first of all, it has enough context that you can just say it and people get the reference. Sure. Hello!

My name is Inigo Montoya. If you said as you wish in the office, you know, to Sean tomorrow, I don't think... As you wish. Maybe you like that. Whenever someone asks you to do something as you're walking out of the room, pull that one.

But when I was growing up, yeah, my name is Enigo Mantuaioa Berta died. We would say that all the time. I'm going to tell a personal story. I'll just take 20 seconds. My parents were friendly with Manny Bantan and his wife. When I was a child, we were like at their country house. And I was like three years old. I fell in the pool and almost drowned.

My dad had to like jump in and drop me. It's like one of my earliest memories because I almost died. Holy shit. I know. I know. So I've always felt like a personal connection. I really thought Mandy Patankan was going to save you in this. No, it was my dad. But, you know,

Mady Battingen was there. It was his pool. I'm sure he doesn't remember this. Wow. It's one of my earliest memories is, like, being underwater. I was very young. That's horrifying. I know.

You didn't know it would be such a deep reveal on this podcast. No, no. That's a lot to take in. He definitely wins the best quote award in Mandy Batinkin. Yeah. I mean, and he was, I mean, he was just really very good in the movie. He was the anchor of the movie. in a lot of ways, you know? He was, he was certainly, I mean, as we know from watching Mandy

Patankan in the year since then, he's probably the best actor in the movie, right? Oh, definitely. But, but Wallace Sean is definitely up there. Walla Sean is an incredible actor, but he's, you know, he's Wallachshan. He's sort of got a schick, you know? Mandy Patankan was both playing a type, but also, like, really acting. And, you know, he was just, and also he has the biggest, you know, Dread Pirate Roberts as aside, he has the biggest sort of moral arc in the movie, right? Because he starts off as a villain and ends up as the, you know, the big hero. The hero, absolutely. That's a good point. You're so smart, Schuemaker, really pointing out these narrative threads. Thank you. Thank you. These narrative threads. I'm good at fairy tales. That's

wrestling and fairy tales is what I can do. Um, okay, good. We've met our manate-potinkin quote. I just couldn't let it go, you know, he's such a big part of the movie. Yeah, I wasn't giving him enough attention. Would this movie be better with Danny Trejo? No. I think yes. I mean, I think he would be good. What would he, what would he do as Enigamantoya? What if he was the giant? Well, he's like with CGI? Yeah.

Oh, that would be pretty great. He would be sort of perfect. He would be great because he seems scary, but he's actually not. Like, I feel like he could start out intimidating and then he realized he's just like a great. Yeah. A great teddy bear. I mean, you could go for a total remake and sort of modernize it and have, have Enigua have like guns and then Danny Trejo would be great.

But I think Danny Trejo, Danny Trejo is Fezek would be pretty incredible. Because I think that like usually when this question comes up and like, no, that's a ridiculous question. I mean, I don't think he'd be better than Andre the Giant. I love Andre too much. We would never impugn Andre that way. He's the OG. He's the goat. But if we're remaking it, I would nominate Danny Trio.

Yeah, he could find a role for him for sure. Yeah. Or like maybe he like works in the royal court. Yeah. He does have that sort of like, you know, built-in self-awareness that you need to be in a movie, to be in a project like this. So I would, I'll say yes. Okay, great. Thank you for humoring me. Finally, Shoemaker, who won this movie to you?

You can say, Andre. Yeah, I mean, there are so many winners in this movie. It's Andre's week, man. We just did. The documentary just came out. I think for me, because of my connection to him and my connection to the movie, he was the bridge and he really won it for me. But I think, you know.

Solid case for many people. There are very, very many cases. Even this is, you know, a solid case for William Goldman, you know. I mean, this is a brilliant idea that was, and that was really executed perfectly, you know. And so maybe that's Rob Reiner too. But there's, but yeah, I'll go with Andre the Giant. Who do you have? Well, Sean, hands down.

Yeah. I just love him. I happen to love him. I think he's so, he's just so much personality and in such like a plot-heavy movie, he delivers his lines impeccably. And I just think he's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, it's really, this is like, goes back to what you were saying about it feeling like a play, but they do, you know, they have the sort of like core cast, but he's not even the core cast. You have Wesleyan Buttercup and everybody around them gets like one or two moments to shine throughout the movie. You know, they're the center of the film, but everything else is like these, everybody has like a really memorable scene, a really memorable, you know, a couple of scenes. And I think that's part of why it was really well done. You just, like, you come out of this movie of very specific memories about almost everything.

You know, I mean, it's very, very tactile, very, very memorable. Thanks so much for doing this podcast. Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun. I don't know why, like, I'm acting as my podcast. It is. It's certainly not. Juliet Litman, every week's host of the rewatchable.

Definitely not. Check out Andre the Giant on HBO. It's available for streaming right now, I believe. Yes, it is. It's honestly really good. I don't even like wrestling. And I do like Andre now. Thanks again.

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