The Rewatchables - “The Re-Heat” With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: January 24, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan feel the heat around the corner and decide to rewatch the movie that started 'The Rewatchables,' the L.A. crime thriller 'Heat,' starring Robert De Niro and Al Pacino, directed by Michael Mann. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everyone, it's Bill Simmons. Before we get started, want to let you know that you were listening to one of six classic episodes of the rewatchables, a podcast that's been around for the last few years. And if you're listening on any platform other than Spotify, you can only hear the last 60 days of new rewatchables episodes, plus these six classics, the Godfather, heat, the social network, old school, jaws, and the town. But for the entire archive, go to Spotify, where you can listen to every episode, 440. Today's very special episode of The Rewatchables is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm agents know that in life anything can happen. You might buy your dream car on impulse or come home to a broken apartment, maybe say yes to a proposal from your significant other and start a family, or find yourself an offender bender when you least expect it. Whatever happens when it comes to home and auto insurance, state farm agents are there to help with over 19,000 agents in neighborhoods across the U.S.

There could be one just around the corner, kind of like how the heat is always. around the corner. Contact an agent today because no matter what your neighborhood you're from or whatever stage of life you're in, check out statefarm.com today to find an agent in your neighborhood, State Farm. Talk to an agent today. We're also brought to you by the ringer.com, one of the world's last great websites, as well as the ringer podcast network where you can find a slew of awesome podcasts, including the BS podcast where we have to, we have to be. We have some good stuff coming up that might be movie related. So I'm just putting that on your radar.

Not as good as the podcast we have now. Chris Ryan and I, we're doing it again. It was the first rewatchables ever, and now it's the 101st. I've got three dead bodies on a sidewalk off Venice Boulevard, Justine. So I'm sorry if the chicken got overcooked. The reheat coming up. You search for the scent of your prey,

and then you hunt them down. It keeps me sharp where I got to be. In a world where violence is wholesale. The bank is worth the risk. You're on. There's a saga waiting to unfold. If I'm there and I got to put you away, you are going down. You will not get in my way for a second.

Al Pacino, Robert De Niro, Val Kilmer. Heat, the Michael Mann film. Wow, this is emotional. This is great. We did this. ever rewatchables that we did not even know was a rewatchable yet. December 2015. We were in my little pool house.

Yeah. Back of my house. And we were just like, let's talk about heat. 20 year anniversary. You and I were texting about it, making jokes. And we were just like, I wonder if this could be a whole podcast. We did it. People liked it.

And if you go back and listen to it, the seeds of what became the rewatchables were all in that podcast. Now we've done 100 rewatchables. We made it packed. Every time we get to another 100. We do cruising. We do heat again. We do heat.

Yeah. It's funny how much we left out of that original pod. We covered all the big picture basics. But now that we had the categories and all the bells and whistles that I think make the rewatchable so much fun, we weren't able to do that with heat, which is why we're having the reheat. Also, I would say that so I rewatched it this week, obviously for the pod. And usually when I rewatch heat, and really when I rewatch any of my favorite movies and heat is my favorite movie, I have like a game plan.

Like, you know you have the scenes that you're waiting for. And so sometimes your brain kind of turns off a little. bit as you're waiting for the bank robbery or you're waiting for, you know, any of the big scenes in the movie. But this time I tried to flip it and specifically watch the scenes that I sometimes zone out on and try to like get more out of them. And it was really great. And I think that's actually probably what Michael Mann would want because he didn't really

think of this movie as a crime story. He thought of it as like a crime movie that was like that the crime is incidental to all these people's lives kind of colliding together. It was the best possible version of Crash. That's right. Which somehow on an awesome. which I think is a good place to start. We should say, though, this is your favorite movie of all time.

This is one of my five favorites. And a movie that I am surprised, I like more every year. I'm not tired of it. I love what it's on. I still get a lot out of it. I notice new things every time. I love all the actors. I love texting you when I'm watching it and texting random quotes.

Ew. One thing we didn't cover in the last pod, this movie got absolutely the Oscars just said no thanks Yeah it went beyond ignoring The Oscars said no thank you Did it have any technical Sign nominations

Best Picture Best Director Best Actor Best Actors Best Supporting Actress Shutouts across the board So the woman who played Michael Trito's wife Didn't get nominated She didn't Miss Trito She didn't get nominated

Wayne? Wayne Grove no nomination But the best picture that year Braveheart Apollo 13 Babe the postman El Postino the postman and sense and sensibility

that's pretty rough Best director Mel Gavehart won by the way Best director Mel Gibson one for Braveheart Chris Noonan for Babe Robbins for Dead Man Walking Mike Figgas for leaving

Las Vegas and the guy did El Pistino Best actor Cage Leaving Las Vegas Dreyfus for Mr. Holland's opus Oh yeah And he won right For a rewatchables Yeah

This next 100 No Cage one Anthony Hopkins as Nixon, which is in consul... I just can't even believe that happened. Sean Penn Dead Men Walking and then the guy from El Pustino. Best actress wouldn't have mattered for Heat. Best supporting actor. Kevin Spacey, the usual suspects.

James Cromwell for Babe. Ed Harris, Apollo 13. Brad Pitt 12 Monkeys. Tim Roth, Rob Roy. Would they have done... I'm pretty sure he could have shoved... No, Pacino DeNino had to be Best Actor. Best Actor, okay.

And then Best Supporting Actress. Mirr Servino for Mighty Aphrodite, Joan Allen and Nixon, Catherine Quinlan of Paul 13, which is nuts. Merwinningham, Georgia, Kate wins that sense and sensibility. How come Vinora can't get in there, man? Vinora? Judd? Judd was good.

Kilmer to me. Kilmer should have gotten best supporting actor. This is an incredible performance from him. And then if I had to pick, if I give you one, De Niro or Pachino for best actor. 100% Pachino. Really? I would say De Niro. Really?

I love De Niro so much this movie. I think I've come all the way back around on Pacino where I will not hear anybody say a bad thing about him in this movie. No, I love Pacino. He's given us so much from this performance. I just love what De Niro's doing and just everything. And in the director's commentary, Michael Mann does. And he talks about the opening scene,

which I bailed on the commentary after 15 minutes and just went online to read all the best tidbits from the commentary because Michael Man's just overpowering the movie. But he talks about how the blue line that leaves, the beginning of this movie is also the end of collateral. He's rambling on about that. And then he's talking about watch, watch what Bob does here as he goes into the hospital off the train station.

He's just like, watch how he doesn't touch anything. Watch how he's surveying the scene. The entrance button with his elbow. Yeah. And he's just so into like all these subtle things, the neuro's doing. I'm like, oh, never noticed that. I've seen this movie 80 times.

That's why this movie is so incredible, is that you can watch it for the 50th or 60th time and still see little beats. I saw something this time around where when they do the action is the juice scene at the refinery scrap yard when Neil says I got to do this job because then I'm getting out

they cut to Chris and he looks at Neil like he's like that's the first he's heard of that and you can tell he obviously feels like a way about it and it's like oh shit this guy's leaving me like what am I going to do whose house with no furniture am I going to crash at and you're like I hadn't noticed that and all the times I had seen he before

with that little cut away what flora Megan is When I crashed in an apartment with no furniture. I have no explanation for the Heat Oscar thing. I don't really remember being upset about it in 96, but I might have been smoking a lot of pot at the time. I don't remember. It's really kind of inexplicable because, as we talked about when we did the first Heat podcast,

so much buzz for this movie. This is De Niro and Pacino in their post-prime apexes. Michael Mann, who at that point had this unassailable reputation. Everything he did was... Prestige. Either amazing in the moment or became amazing. Yeah. And the trailer, it was the first time they were in the movie and go over the story quickly about they're both in the godfather.

They don't share any scenes. These two great actors who had circled each other, you know, really for 25, 30 years, both New York guys. And this was the movie that they're both in. And this is Michael Mann. And this was like, you know, one of my biggest moments at 1995, a year that didn't have a lot going on for me. But it really was. This was like a game seven of the NBA finals for me. And I think you felt the same.

Where were you? You were in Boston? Yeah, but I think that I saw, when did it come out in December 95? So I was home for Christmas and I remember walking at a blizzard to go see it at the AMC River View. I think it is in Philly. And I remember like walking to the theater to go see it because like the buses were shut down. And it was like, it was incredible. I think I saw it again that weekend.

It was immediately, all of my friends just started talking and heat dialogue. You know, it just became one of those movies that became part of the language that you spoke to other people. And it stayed that way for 20 years. I mean, even when we did this first podcast, the amount of people who would reach out to us on Twitter were these obscure observations, lines that they loved, little gestures. You know, the action is the juice stuff really became. Like, you can see that people just read, read this thing over and over and over again. I saw it Somerville Lowe's in this movie over the last 25 years. Now it's 2000.

This would be the 25th anniversary in December. It hits every checkpoint of a modern movie. It comes out before the internet. we're still doing the VHS Blockbuster thing. We're not doing DVDs yet. DVDs really starts around 96. And if you go back, Keat had the double VHS tape thing in 96.

And then the DVD doesn't come out to 99. Yeah. Then that happens. Then it goes into the whole cable universe, and it's on, basically it was way better on the movie channels because it was so long when it was on TNT. It's on TNT from 8 to midnight.

Yeah, right. It's just like with the commercials. a real commitment. But then eventually kind of settles on the Cinemax, HBO, encore universe. Then Blu-Rays come out. Directors cut. Then we have Internet. Then we have message boards.

You find out that other people love this. Movie sites. Eventually this decade podcasts. There's a podcast. Isn't there a podcast where somebody does one minute? Yeah, they basically did an entire podcast. I think it was called Heat every minute. Well, wasn't it called Heat Around the Corner?

It just seems like that would have made sense. But yeah, so it was called one heat minute pot And it was every minute of heat Was was recorded in an episode, yeah So then it goes into the enhanced Blu-ray Director's Cut era Then the Twitter era Now it's in the whole GIF era

And now it's what it is 25 years later Whatever comes next This is a movie that I think We'll live on and on Much like the classics, the Godfather There's some movies that Haven't lived on like that

Like I watched a deer hunter recently Which is a great movie super slow. It's a three and a half hour commitment and it belongs to a certain era. This movie manages to somehow feel modern even though, as you pointed out in the last podcast, all the way they're surveilling the suspects

is all old school. Yeah, it's all we have like 24-hour surveillance, like wiretaps on your phones. Yeah, they're like, everybody is trying to like get on the landline and call me back at this payphone. They're trying to like elude surveillance that way, but for the most part, there's no digital surveillance. There's some cameras and stuff like that.

But they're not like up on people's cell phones or anything. Like I think Trito has a mobile phone, but that's pretty much it. Vincent has a mobile phone. It's a world where you could lose somebody just by going to the airport coming out in a different car. People are like, where to go? Helicopters couldn't go over there. Yeah, right.

It's just, it's a more innocent time. And we've made the case that Tom Noonan, which we, you know, it should be a bigger deal. invents the internet in this movie. It's just out there. You just got to know to grab it. Just got to grab stuff. But I think Heat in 2020 is a different movie because you would have all these ways.

It basically would become the wire crossed with nine different other movies. A couple of things we should hit. We didn't talk about in the last podcast about this L.A. takedown. Uh-huh. We mentioned it. We didn't really talk about how this was. The pilot that he shot. It was a decade-long odyssey.

Just in the 80s for Michael Mann, he was obsessed with this Chicago. Chicago police officer, Chuck Adamson, in his pursuit in the 60s of a criminal named McCauley and ended up selling NBC on this show, made the pilot and the actors weren't good, the lead actors. I think for whatever reason he picked the wrong people, and they were like, they didn't pick it up.

Did you watch any of it? I watched some of it. It was too weird for me. Yeah. It's, you can see why they didn't pick it up. It's strange. It's like way too violent for network television. You can see for one thing.

I think I saw also the performances had some issues, but the major thing is that it is essentially a storyboard for a lot of heat. Yeah. Like the bank robbery scene more or less plays the way the bank robbery scene plays in the movie. But it's just obviously shot with like one-tenth of the budget and one-tenth of the level of like imagination and vision. That's a weird time to try to do this. Late 80s was such a cesspool for TVs and movies.

Yeah. TV and movies, right? Like I really feel like that was one of the worst errors. But he was coming off Miami Vice and Crime Story. I mean, I think he probably thought, like, he had this idea. And he probably was, like, a little bit of a... Ahead of his time when it came to, like, what if we told this story over, like, a long period of time

rather than, like, a feature? What, uh... So, when we're talking just 1995... 1995, Chris Ryan. Uh-huh. Why did you love Michael Mann? What was the one thing that really drew you in with his stuff? Well, I think that part of it is that he makes pretty traditional Hollywood movies.

They just don't play that way. So, like, you watch something like... say Last of the Mohicans, right? That's like essentially a movie that Hollywood's been making since the invention of Hollywood. Yes. That story has been told several times. But his dedication to realism

and his dedication to making the film feel as tactile as possible, where it's like, if he's going to make Lascahawicans, they're going to shoot it up in the mountains of North Carolina and everybody is going to have to learn how to walk in moccasins. And if they're going to make heat, I think it was something like only 10 of the 85 locations had ever been used.

in movies before. Seriously? Yeah. And that's why that movie feels like a movie, even though it's been copied, even though people have tried to rip it off for the 20 years after it came out, 25 years after it came out,

Den of Thieves, whatever. Nothing feels like heat because he's actually shooting in Long Beach and at these scrapyards and at Hermosa and downtown in these ways that like feel like you're there. And when you drive around L.A. now, no matter how much L.A. has changed since 1995,

it looks like that. It does, especially the downtown I think we've talked about the concept of season tickets before in the rewatchables, where you're just blindly in, much like if you have season tickets of the Clippers, you just have season tickets on actors, actresses, directors, whoever. Michael Mann and Walter Hill were the two guys coming out of the 80s for me where it was just like, I don't even care if it's bad.

I'm seeing it. Those are my guys. Yeah. Black Hat is like going to see the Clippers play like the Bulls on a Wednesday night on a back-to-back. And come on a while I's not playing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But we saw the theater together. Exactly. But Jericho Mile back in the days when I was an only child late 70s and I watched every TV movie and everything that was on the three channels. What else was I going to do other than read books? And that had such a huge impact on me. I just love that movie about this convict who's stuck in jail, but he's a great runner and has a chance to maybe run in the Olympics. Michael Mann did that and made it so realistic with the prison that you could watch a movie now and it still kind of holds up. and then he goes into Thief, which I saw with my dad in the theater.

Great James Con performance. Miami Vice, which was transcendent. And then you go all the way through to Las Mohicans and all the other stuff. We should also throw out something like Manhunter, which is essentially like people are still ripping off Manhunter now. There's no true detective without Manhunter. There's no Mine Hunter without Manhunter. Like Manhunter is basically like the modern detective story.

And it's one of the great movies at portraying the psychology of its characters with the visuals. Like you don't really, there's not a lot of dialogue in Manhunter. It's mostly, you don't really, you don't. It's brought out by the way that he shoots it. It's in the running for most ripped off movie the last 35 years. Look, feel, all that stuff. And I just loved him.

So when it came out that he was doing this with Pacino's dinner, first of all, he hadn't made a movie in a couple of years. Yeah. And then it was like, oh, man, this is it. It also just feels huge. Like, when you think about, like, the way people probably got to go see movies from any time between the 30s through the 60s, and they would go see things like gone with the wind or Lawrence of Arabian.

It would feel like this event movie where it was like obviously like just widescreen. So much care had been put into every shot, every scene, every detail. And it's not that people don't do that or didn't do that in the 80s and 90s, but this felt like almost a throwback in that way, where it was just like everything about it felt so highly expert. There's like four or five editors credited. I could just see Michael Mann like firing editors the way that Steelead Dan fired drummers where they're just like, get out.

I need a new editor. It's got to be perfect, you know? Like, it's just one of those things where it feels at once like this huge Main Street Entertainment, but so nuanced and so specific and so personal. And it felt like they were real stakes even before it came out for everybody involved. And you talked about, we talked about where Michael Mann was, but De Niro and Pacino, they both had a little bit of a renaissance starting in that 89 to 90 range where they really came back and reclaimed the throne.

This feels like where they cashed it in. It feels like where they're like, okay, like, we've kind of like gotten our juice going again. And this is where they put their chips in the middle. And they say, like, we're going to use all of our kind of accumulated credit to buy this movie. Well, ironically, De Niro puts out casino like five weeks before this movie. Oh, that's right. He had casino and then heat in five weeks and didn't get nominated for either of them. Jesus.

So, and then, yeah, the Michael Man and then his ability to just cast all of these people who are there on the way up. that guys that you've always liked they can be in a scene for a minute and you feel like you know them and it's the best version of it's the best movie he's ever made I think he probably thinks that I would guess I would imagine that during the years after heat like when he's making insider

or whatever he's like I'm only moving forward but he's done enough stuff in commemoration of heat at this point that I think he recognizes it's something special I wanted to ask you a question this is just a bloodstrokes thing so this time when I watched it I was really trying to watch more of the, like, get more into the scenes with like Charlene and Justine. Yeah. Marciano and all these people, Van Sant, all the people that are around the two guys.

Right. Are you, I think we talked about a lot the first time around about like maybe some plot lines or some fat to this movie that could have been trimmed. But this time around, I know that the Lauren plot line, the Natalie Portman plot line seems silly. But when you think about it, this is not a movie about fate bringing these two. guys together on a collision course because one is the other side of the other and they have to clash. It's really just like a bunch of mistakes and

accidents and little decisions to get made by people around these guys that bring them together at the end. And I kind of now think that you can't cut anything. There's nothing you can really lose from this movie without it kind of unraveling the entire thing. I think the Portman character is the

weakest part because the suicide attempt at the end. Right. Comes out of a little nowhere. It derails the momentum in the movie a little. But at the same time, I think it's making the point that Pacino had these family things. Yes. Whereas De Niro had nothing.

And maybe trying to. But if you were ever going to cut anything, I would probably gravitate to that. Even like the Waingrove... But even her suicide attempt winds up being like kind of a major plot point towards the end. It does. It brings them in the hospital. It brings them together with Diana of Nora. But even like Waingrove being a serial killer.

Oh, yeah, that's right. On the down low, which, you know, is kind of thrown in there pretty hastily. but on the other hand, you kind of need it because I think the only way it makes sense for Neil, the author of the, as soon as the heats around the corner, you got to go in 30 seconds. Remember Jimmy McElwain on a yard used to say you want to be making moves on the street,

have no attachments, allow nothing to be in your life that you cannot walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you spot the heat around the corner. Remember that? For him to be like, I've got to kill Wayne Grove. I just can't go to New Zealand unless I do this. It can't just be Waingro as the guy who fucked up the highest.

He's got to be even a worse human being than that. And as a viewer, I have to be like, I need Waingrove to die. Because it's essentially a movie about Neil not following his own rules in some ways. Yeah, Neil's a hypocrite. We're going to get to that in a second. This movie made $187 million against the $60 million budget. It has four Oscar winners or people who eventually won Oscars. Pacino, De Niro, John Voight, Natalie Portman,

as well as a bunch of nominees. Roger Ebert, three and a half out of four stars. Thanks, Roger. It's not just an action picture, he wrote. Above all, the dialogue is complex enough to allow the characters to say what they're thinking. They're eloquent, insightful, fanciful, poetic when necessary. They're not trapped with cliches.

Yes. Michael Mann said at one point, obviously, like, singing from the same hymn book as Ebert, though people characterize it as a crime thriller, that's the last thing it is, at least in my mind. It is, its plot is driven by a crime story and a police story to a certain point, and then it breaks into a kind of chorus. In that chorus, we see slices

of these different people's lives. And I think we didn't make this point the last time, and if we did, we didn't make it nearly well enough. This is the template for a bunch of prestige TV that we would end up watching the 21st century. Would you make this into a 10-episode Netflix show? It is a 10-episode Netflix show. And it has an anti-hero that I'm not supposed to root for,

and he's done a bunch of interviews over the years. the reasons he wanted to do this movie are pretty simple. He wanted to tell the story about a criminal and the guy chasing him where you're rooting for the criminal to be caught and you're rooting for the criminal to get away at the same time. And that's why you have to have that final scene. That was the appeal to him.

That became prestige TV. That became, why am I rooting for Walter White? Yeah. I should be rooting for them to catch him and I can't. I want him to get away. It feels different than like the end of silence of the lambs where you're like, well, Hopkins is so charming. I just don't want him to get caught

because the idea of him being not in the world anymore getting to do his bits is even if he's like a murderer I don't get you know I'm going to be robbed of that right whereas with Neil

you're like he needs to get caught but I don't want him to get caught like you actually go through the end of that movie every single time on the fence as to what you want to have happened you want idiot you're like come on idiot you guys got to

make this work. Meanwhile, anybody would be like, Edy, run. Run right now. I would tell Edy to run when that guy's like, lady, why do you care so much about what I do? What I do. What I do. We're doing the categories. And I'm really excited. And this is why we want to do this pot again.

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Up to 10 hours, I think, a battery life. You can move it around. Bring it on the golf course. maybe you can't bring it on the golf course actually maybe you could I don't know bring in your car find out where you can't bring it but it's great you can bring it anywhere you want it's like this little egg pod it's bigger than egg pod though

and you can just blast whatever you want out of there go to sonos.com to learn more at s-o-no-os.com before we do the categories I want to reiterate the last podcast we did with the lessons of heat okay and I'm just going to go through those really quickly because they're funny and I narrowed them down to the best

never fall for a guy with no furniture never leave a living witness never sell barabonds back to the guy you stole them from never stay in town when someone calls and tells you I'm talking to an empty telephone because there's a dead man on the other line what do you mean forget the money

what am I doing I'm talking to an empty telephone I don't understand because there was a dead man on the other end of this fucking line just leave get the fuck out I mean you already don't watch a ball game I guarantee you, Van Sant has a Cayman Islands place.

Yeah. No extradition. Just go down there. He's watching a hockey game. Like, nothing bad's going to happen. He's already been told he's an empty telephone. Never have a life that revolves around barbecues and ball games. So you never wanted a regular type life.

What the fuck is that? Barbecues and ball games? Yeah. I think that's essential advice. Never have anything in your life that you can't walk away from in 30 seconds if the heat's around the corner. Now, there's some other ones. there's, you know, maybe don't fall in love with the guy who has no furniture, but those are, I think, the main six.

So, most rewatchable scene, man, there are a lot of choices. I tried to get pretty creative with mine to not pick the obvious ones all the time. For most rewatchable scene? Yeah, a little bit. I thought we kind of had to play the hits for this category. I figured you would.

Yeah. The first robbery. Yeah. In the theater, first time. It feels like a truck is going through your head. You're like, what's going? And movies starting out a little slow. What's going on?

People getting picked up. People. And then all of a sudden... 10 minutes of Val Kilmer buying explosives at L. L.O's. The truck hitting the armored gar's car in the theater is one of the most terrifying sounds. One of the loudest things I've ever heard about. And then the first time you hear guns in this movie. And if you're playing this DVD at home or the Blu-ray or whatever and you really crank it up,

you crank up your Sono system, whatever you have, and you really unleash it, That truck feels like it's going through from the right side of your living room, all the way through to the left side. There's like five or six, oh shit moments in the first 20 minutes of this movie. But the first one I think I have, I always have, is when they set off the shape charge on the armored truck and all the back windows of the cars and the car lock go out. And they just explode at once. I was like, that is the fucking coolest thing in the world. There's the call. Clear!

The, uh, the mass. Masks are great. It becomes clear pretty easily that these guys are absolute professionals. They're holding the thing. There's the call three minutes. Doing the whole thing. He's going through all the bonds. Picks the one he liked.

We got it. Let's go. And then Wayne Groh, who's a little off the reservation, but we're not totally sure of him yet. He's certainly a fan of free refills at Mexican restaurants. True. Who is it? And he starts eyeballing this poor security guard who's got blood coming out of his ears. and he's just kind of staring at him.

He's just blank look. He's already pistol-wipped him, right? Right. He's already hit him with a gun and then just decides to kill him. And then they have to shoot everybody, unfortunately. They get in the getaway car and they're like, what happened in there?

What did you do? And then, he's making a move, man. What does he say? Well, he waits until the diner to be like, I had to get it on. He was looking at me. But in the car, he's making a move, man. That whole thing, it just sets it up.

We were like, okay, these guys have to go down. We need to catch them. second scene. I'm throwing this in there. Big Boys Diner. I had to get it on, man. He was making a move. I had to get it on.

Yeah. A little dinner with Wayne Groh. Yeah. A little, you guys want some pie? Wayne Groh's like, everything's fine, even though he's the reason

that's killed three people. Wouldn't it be hilarious if one of those if like Chris or Michael had been like, yeah, can I get a bite? Can we get some bit of ice cream with this? What's your soup today? Yeah.

My favorite thing in that scene also is I noticed this again this time. I think I had noticed this before, but when Neil is coming into the diner, Michael stands up and goes and sits at the actual diner counter and just kind of goes like this. Oh, I never even noticed that. Trejo's like, I got to go take a leak and leaves,

but clearly is going to make sure that the plastic liner is going to fix the plastic trunk. The murder trunk is good. But I love that Tom Seismore just like stands up and sits at the diner and Ice Girls wing grow while he's eating his pie. Where do I buy the murder trunk? I mean, I know a guy. Is that something I can get?

Where are those places? Probably at Albert's place, where Albert is doing hot cars down on Centinella or whatever, yeah. I want to go to dinner with you once to be like, hold on, Chris, I got to show you something, and then just open the plastic line trunk.

And you'd be like, well, no, don't kill me. That would be when I'm like, I'm going a bar stool. You're like, no, cool, come on out to the truck. Hold on, I want to show you my car. Some other great moments. None of the customers react. Except that one guy. After Neil takes Wingrow's head

and slams and hits counter four times. They're all dressed up in suits. Was there every time in L.A. where that would have been normal behavior? Because now at like a small plate shared plates restaurant, I just can't imagine somebody getting their head slammed into a table at all time and just being like... Well, you asked me five years ago what my move would have been

if I was at the next table. Yeah. Watching this. What would have been? I think I'd just do this. Just go on my phone. I don't want to make eye contact with it. You can't see the Titans Money line?

Yeah, I don't want to make eye contact with. with one human being. De Niro's great in that scene. Yeah. It's really just vintage, just has a purpose. He just kind of owns it. You really feel like he's going to kill Wayne Groh. And then I've taken him outside leading to a nitpick that we'll just do now.

How does Wayne Grow escape? I can't believe they fucked that up. Because he's standing over him with a gun to his head. Come on. And then he somehow rolls 50 yards away. Neil McCauley, overrated? Well, also, I wanted to mention that on one hand, Neil McCauley kind of invents dress where it's like the open shirt, open white shirt with

the gray blazer or whatever. True. But that blazer is 11 sizes too big for him. I guess he's holding like an oozy underneath of it at all times. I think that was the look. I think that was a mid-90s. I have some pictures that I wish I didn't have from weddings and engagement parties back then. And it's just like big jackets.

It looks like you've got like two kids stacked on top of each other. Everyone makes fun of the NBA draft people back then. But trust me, we were all wearing like. the heavy David Burn jackets. Next one. I love this already, but since I've gotten a known you well, I feel like this is kind of our scene, Edy and Neil meeting for the first time. What are you reading? Book about metals. What kind of work do you do? Stress fractures and titanium. What kind of work you do? Lady, why are you so interested in what I read or what I do? I've seen in the store from time to time. What store? I'm seeing angles. I went there.

If you don't want to talk to me, it's okay. Sorry, I bothered you. She apologizes. There's the seat in between those. He feels bad. Yeah. Then he's like, I'm sorry. I didn't realize.

Takes the next seat. Because you work at the bookstore where somehow, like... How's he going to remember that? Starts hitting on her, and within two minutes, they're back at his place. Yeah, talking about the algae in Fiji. How lonely are you? I know it's pre-intern. Maybe pre-tinder.

You know, you work in a library, but this is the best offer you had. You're hot. It is a good L.A. scene because she talks about how she's been there for a year and she doesn't really like it, but she's got to be there for her work. Good point. And she probably just doesn't know that many people. Good point.

She's playing the whole, you know, young, attractive female in LA. What is that diner? Because that place closed, right? Yeah, I think that one closed. Okay. I don't know why Edy doesn't have a boyfriend. I don't know why Eady had to settle for Neal the metal psycho, but I will say this.

I've watched a year a lot over the years. I think this might be the best chemistry he's had with an actress. He's not somebody that... Not him and Kathy Moriarty and Regent. I was going to say, like, him and Juliet Lewis weirdly had chemistry in Cape Fair and it was fucking weird. But if you go through his movie,

but if you go through like Meryl Streep, they put them together in a rom-com and it was just fucking weird. They was like watching two people just played chess and go and checkmating each other every time and not being able to reach them. He's not somebody that you want clicking with

an actress for whatever reason. Even in the Irishman, his last movie. It's not like significant others are great casino Sharon Stone. Goodfellas, he's asexual, he's never the woman ever. Is he the wife in Goodfellas? No. You don't know what he's doing. Godfather, too, I guess he gets along with Mama Corleone.

A little bit. Yeah. Cooking him dinner, though. He gives her the pair. True. Yeah. He's not like clicking on screen. And this is like...

It's not banter. I feel like him and Edy, they, you know, it's... This is why you're asking me about what I read and what I do. It's a classic rom-com there. And Eadie's like... It's like she did something wrong and you've established. That's why I love that character because it's actually believable. She just has no self-esteem.

And this guy immediately is honor. One of my favorite things about that meet cute between Neil and Edie underrated is when he asks her like where she's from. And she breaks down her entire family tree and how they immigrated to Appalachia. Right, right. And she's like, what about you? And he's like, I'm from the Bay Area. She's like, Scotch Irish, what came over and emigrated to Appalachia. And she's like waiting for his, like, American story.

And he's like, I'm from the Bay Area. I'm from the Bay Area. I have no furniture. And I'm reading a book about medals. Do you want to marry me? Do you want to go to New Zealand? Do you want to go to New Zealand? As far away as we can get from America.

It'll be fine. Next scene, Neil's gang, debating the heist. Our problem is take the bank or split right now. Do not go home. Do not pack. Nothing. 30 seconds flat from now. We are gone on our separate ways.

that's it. Chris. The bank is worth the risk. I need it, brother. You should stay and take it down. That's where I come out. Now, we could put a whole bunch of other scenes in there. Like, we could have, we could John Boye going to see Noonan or Neil going to see Tom Noon and all that stuff.

Yeah, Kelso. I'm just going on. I'm playing the hits. Neil's gang, whether they should do it or not, Kilmer gets off. The bank is worth the risk. Yeah. And the greatest Kilmer line of all time. The two sides of this scene are imperfect. It's, you know what they're looking at? LAPD.

Well, that's coming up after this. That's before this or after this? No, this is before that. Because I have that one too. We have Seismore, which you pointed out in the last pod, just going for it with De Niro. Unbelievable. This is like Reggie Miller against Michael Jordan in the 98 playoffs being like,

I know this is absurd, but I think I'm as good as this guy. And he just heat checks him. Yeah. And does the, Michael, what do you think? And he does the look away. He blinks a hundred times. And then he just gets it real, he gets the engine going. He's just like, oh, you know, for me, the action is the juice.

And De Niro's like, and then it cuts to like Treo or Kilmer. And they're like, oh, yeah, like what you did. Yeah. I love that whole thing. It does raise the question, though. Neil's supposed to be this smart criminal who knows the heats around the corner all time. He literally knows the heats around the corner. There's so much heat on those guys.

Maybe wait a little while. Where do you think all this? He's saying it rhetorically. He's accusing it at Wayne Grove of doing that, right? He's like, Wayne Groh dined us out. Or Van Zand. They don't know. They know it's somebody.

And then the follow-up to that is Pacino realizing that the guys have flipped the table on them. L-A-P-D. You know what they're looking at? What? Us. The L-A-P-D. Police to play. We just got made.

Police department. We just got made. You guys are good. The next one is the fan... Okay, motherfuckers! Okay, motherfucker! The next one is the diner scene. So then if you spot me coming around that corner,

you're just going to walk out on this woman, not say goodbye. That's the discipline. That's pretty vacant, you know? It is what it is. It's that. We both better go do something else, pal. I don't know how to do it. Neither do I.

Neither do I. I would say one of the most famous scenes in the 90s. Yeah, I would think probably one of the most famous scenes in the last, like, 40 years in movie theater, in movies. I described it once as a finals where if LeBron and Kobe had ever played the finals, and there's that moment in the fourth quarter where all of a sudden they're just guarding each other. And it's just fucking on. And the fans are like, holy shit.

And the announcers going, ooh, they're guarding each other. Except what if ESPN decided to not do anything? master shots and only do like one-on-ones. Right, do side shots. Well, that was another, I forgot to mention this. We're doing the top of the arcs of this movie or the different checkmarks. There's this whole checkmark where everybody has square TVs, but this is filmed super-duper widescreen.

And when you see this scene, in the square, it was just only one guy at all times, which led to this 10-year internet legend that they weren't in the scene together and that they filmed the shots separately. And then as soon as we had the widescreen, it was like, oh, yeah, you can see them both times. So that turned out to be bullshit. some classic moments in here. First of all, some stuff I found out in research.

Take 11. Really? They never rehearsed it as requested by De Niro. Right. He said he thought it would be better if they just didn't know. My life's a disaster zone. I got a stepdaughter. I'm so fucked up because the real father's this large type asshole.

What is a large type asshole? He does the whole thing. I spent all my time chasing guys like, you around the block. That's my life. And then Neil, this is so it goes. Guy told me one time, don't let yourself get attached to anything. You are not willing to walk out on

30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner. Now, if you're on me and you've got to move when I move, how do you expect to keep a marriage? And he does the heat around the corner thing. It's like they're just immediately in it. They're having like a fucking podcast together.

You know, a guy told me one time. I think it was Malcolm I'm glad well. And then there. Coasterman was on once and he told me. And in eight minutes they click. And Pacino does the whole, you know, we're sitting here, you and I, like a couple of regular fellas do what I got to do.

And now that we've been face to face, if I'm there and I got to put you away, I won't like it. But I tell you, it's between you and some poor bastard who's life's going to, you're going to turn into a widow, brother. Brother. You are going down. Now, at this point, he's definitely murdered three poor armored car guys.

They're pretty convinced that this happened. They only didn't arrest him at the precious metals depository because they wanted to get them in the act of actually stealing something, not breaking and entering. So he does this whole speech. Also, I don't know why he likes the Nero so much. Vincent must commandeer a Los Angeles Police Department helicopter and backup to pull Neal over to be like, I'm having coffee. I'm not sure what form you submit for that.

We're like, hey, I need the chopper. Why? I'm going to take this guy to coffee. Yeah. And talk about... Got to hunt down McCauley. Talk about our dreams. He's also going to catch him on the 10th.

Yeah. So he's got to go like 130 miles and hours. I don't think that's a problem for Vincent. So they set it up and then De Niro does the classic. This is one of my favorite De Niro performances ever, this scene where he does. He listens to it. It registers. And he kind of looks away.

And then he goes... there's a flip side to that coin. There's a flip side to that coin. What if you do got me boxed in? And I got to put you down. Because no matter what, you will not get my way. We've been face-to-face, yeah. But I will not hesitate.

Not for a second. Like, it's like a, he's like a murder suspect conferring with his lawyer about what the next thing. But it's just all in his head. and it does that we've been face to face, yeah, but I will not hesitate not for a second. And then Pacino says, so if you spot me coming around that corner, you're just going to walk out on this woman,

not say goodbye. And Therino's like, that's the discipline. Yeah. Which is his only bad acting moment. So they set the whole movie up and they somehow weirdly like each other. Who wins the scene 25 years later? I asked you 20-year mark.

I think Pacino, but I know that you're going to say De Niro. I know that you think it's like De Niro because he's keeping it more stoic and he's doing a lot more listening. but I think that Pacino, and I want to know when you want to get to the revelation, I think it happened after we recorded our podcast. Do it now.

The revelation that Pacino says that his character is on cocaine in this entire movie. So in the early scripts, we found out that Vince and Hannah, Pacino's character, has a huge coke problem. Yes. And then Michael Mann decided to get rid of that

because it was just yet another clutter thing. But that Pacino is like, I just want you guy, like he did like a thing with Christopher Nolan where it was like an interview with, I think, Mann and De Niro and Pacino or maybe it was just the two actors. and he reveals that he thinks, like his motivation in this movie is his character

is doing key bumps like the entire time, which certainly explains a lot of his behavior. Explains a lot. Yeah. But in this scene, he's doing, his eyes are always darting around. Like, Neil is pretty much looking at Vincent the entire time.

Vincent's kind of cocked over. He's kind of leaning, but he's also like scanning the entire restaurant. He's kind of got a thing, but you can tell he's kind of got something else going on in his head while he's doing it. And it's just like an amazing performance when you watch it that way. It's one of my favorite eight moments in any movie.

And I don't know who wins. I think it's a split decision, 115 to 114. Yeah. I think one judge had it one way, the other judge had it the other way. You might even have a draw with the third judge. It's that close. Next scene, the bank robberer shootout. We spent a lot of time in this in the last pod.

Probably the goat bank shootout. I still feel like that way. It's 15 solid minutes. I mean, I would say in some ways, nobody's figured out how to do bank robberies since this movie. And there's a lot. And the research... Every good bank robbery I've seen in a movie since then is basically just heat.

Feels like an homage. Yeah. In the research, it's pointed out that Michael Mann spent so much time on how these guys loaded the guns, shot the guns, how fast they were able to reload, specifically Kilmer and De Niro, that military units study how they do heat to show them how to reload the gun and stuff like that. And Kilmer was all proud of himself.

Because it's funny. Seismore's in the shootout, especially on the street. But they don't really show him. My theory is Michael Mann didn't probably like... Didn't like his running style? Didn't like how he was loading the gun. Yeah, he's kind of like Seid Williamson, didn't like his gate. Right.

He was just having to focus on these other two guys. But you can see, if you look closely, especially the widescreen, when Kilmer and De Niro shooting, you can see Seismore in the back. He's shooting, too, but they never cut to him. Oh, another thing. Rather than dubbing in the gunshots, Michael Mann had microphones carefully placed around on the set so that the audio could be captured live. I would say like...

Which I guess nobody had ever done before. What are your other favorite... What are the classic bank movies since then? I would say inside man is the one that's like the least like heat that I love. You know what I mean? Like there's not like a huge physical confrontation in Inside Man other than the one that's imagined. Den of Thieves. Dead of Thieves, obviously.

We like some of the shootouts in that. That's... Den and Thieves is a flat out heat rip-off. Yeah. I don't think anybody's really come close to this though. And my only nipick after watching this a million times, other than I love when the bank robber reassures the people as he has a mask on in a machine gun,

we're not here for your money, it's the banks. It's like, oh, thank you. That makes me feel so much better. I'm just going to lie here in complete fear. I'm glad you're not here for my money. Can I just survive 10 minutes? But Kilmer's walk takes too long. The editing, they screw up,

and I think that's a flaw in this movie. He goes from the entrance. He's got the bag. He's walking slowly. And in the time where he leaves the bank, he smiles at size more, the whole thing, it's 20 yards, 25 yards. And in that time, Pacino's able to pull in with the car, get out, they're able to go four blocks coming down. It just, it never sits right. It always drives me nuts.

It's also strange that, like, they wouldn't cause, like, a ripple effect of unrest that they would have picked up on before they got to the car or in the car. You know what I mean? Like, if the cops are, like, encircling this block, I think Dennis Haysbert would have peeped that. Right. Yeah. next one um i guess we go i mean i'm just playing the o gs the next one is neil killing wingrow and walking away from eddie where you have a tough one for edie tough breakup yeah yeah yeah she said she was got her new zealand gave her notice at the bookstore gave her notice told her told her friends

and family i'm going to new zealand she's packed i'm emigrating to new zealand so we started out scotch irish then went to appalachia and now i'm going to new zealand right uh that didn't happen stuck in the car. I don't know if she has the keys. I don't know if she gets arrested for aiding and abetting a felon. Her boyfriend sprinting toward airplanes with the cop chasing him.

Tough breakup. Did you hear the little bit about like they almost weren't able to shoot at LAX because of a threat from the unabomber? No. Yeah. There was a unibomber threat threat at LAX

and they almost weren't able to shoot there. If you're leaving with somebody that you now know is some sort of criminal and he says, I just have to make one more stop. Yeah. and you pull up outside this hotel and 20 minutes passes. The fire alarm grows off.

A SWAT team shows up. Just slide into the driver seat, just take off. I'm probably out of there. Maybe just get an Uber. I think I'm good. I think at that point, I'm like, New Zealand, I'll go there next year. It's also like, you guys knew each other for like two weeks.

We talked about this on the last pod. Are we sure Pacino could catch De Niro in a sprint? Not on cocaine? Cocaine and probably two packs a day. That gets into a little bit of like Villanova Georgetown action where it's like he's got like five good minutes. Vincent. De Niro's like a vegan.

Yeah. Whatever. Any other rewatchable scenes? Yeah, a couple. I wanted to talk a lot about Vincent versus Albert. I think, you know, I'd be really interested in maybe scouting out Albert's place as some new ringer offices. Because you can't beat the combination salt mine pit bull training hut, shantytown hot car lot. Yeah, where was that?

I don't know. But Albert's drinking Negro Mosello at like night in the morning. and I just always loved where's your empathy? It's a substance abuse problem. And that's, of course, the sea where Pacino is clearly so off-menu that the camera and the editing

can't keep up with his improvving because when he's doing, by the time I get to Phoenix, he'll be rising. Right. They're cutting back and forth and you can see that the sound is happening

from a different take because Pacino's mouth isn't moving over the shoulder. So it's just like, Pacino was so on one that they only were able to get like one take of his genius. If Al Pacino gave an interview and said, the only time I've ever done a cocaine before a scene

was one time in heat. Yeah. We would be like, oh, it was the Albert scene. It was the Albert scene. He's adverse buddy. Give me all you guys! I wanted to talk a little bit about the, this is later in the movie,

the Wayne Grove Van Zant Benny meeting when Henry Rollins brings Waingrove by. That's a weird one. Okay, the reason why is I love that Van Zanzan's been living in his office, and they definitely dress his office with, like, sheets on the couch, like he's been living in there. But Waingrove's move is a... I got some moves I can make here.

Probably be a big help to you. I want Gar-Forman to say that when people call the bulls. Like about Lori marketing or whatever? Yeah, I got some moves here. I can make probably be a big help to you. Or the Minnesota GM. Got a guy, I'm having him, Andrew Wiggins.

You might be interested in. I got some moves here. I love Vincent going to BJs on Alvarado at 2am. You love that one. They're playing house of pain. Yeah. The scene when they're sitting with tone loke

is obvious that the music is being put dubbed in after the fact and that everybody is dancing to silence. Yeah. Because their dialogue is like basically whispered. And then everybody is just kind of like moving in the background. So I love that. And I love the whole like,

so you know a guy, an ex-con who says he's not up to nothing. What do you want a junior G-man badge? Right. I also love the crews at the refinery scrap bar. We talked about that. Most rewatchable scene, is it possibly Jeremy Piven as Dr. Bob?

That's pretty good. Give me your shirt. My daughter gave me the shirt for Father's Day. The most rewatchable scene is the diner scene. Yeah. The second most we watchable scene is the bank shoot out. Yes. But I'll accept all other nominations as well.

I love this movie. I have a new category, just for you. What completely over the top out Pacino moment aged the best? Here are your nominees. Okay. Pacino goes to see Auburn. Give me all you got! Give me all you got! Give it all you got!

The one we did at the very top, I got three bodies on a sidewalk of Venice Boulevard. I got three dead bodies on a side. off Venice Boulevard, Justine. I'm sorry if the goddamn chicken got overcooked. I'm sorry if the goddamn chicken. He looks at the chicken. Does he need a second to understand that it's chicken? He could remember.

Am I holding a pork shop? We haven't talked about this one yet. Because she's got a great ass. And you got your head! all the way up it Why to get mixed up with that bitch Because she got a great ass And you got your head

All the way up it The underrated part Is that the next line is When I think about a woman's ass Something just comes out of me So in the director's commentary Michael Mann said Al Pacino ad libbed this whole thing

And Hank Exeria He looks exasperated and shocked Because he doesn't know what the fuck is going on Jesus Christ I think he actually says that He's like Is this guy gonna shoot me? You can get her

Walking to a Doggy You know what they're looking at? Us The LAPD Police Department Ha ha ha Okay motherfuckerfuck Okay motherfuckers

I had coffee with Macally Half an hour ago And then I'm angry I'm very angry Ralph You do not get to watch my fucking television set Or then What do we got

What do we got? Bon voyage, motherfucker. You were good. Your favorite over the top of Caccino moment, 25 years later. Great ass? Yeah. All right. What's age the best other than what we just said?

Forget the money. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone because there's a dead man on the other line. And he's calling from the back of a restaurant. It's the best threat ever on a phone in the history of cinema. Yes. And the way Van Sant tries to be like, oh, hey, I haven't heard from anybody yet. I was hoping to hear from you.

Yeah. go. Did you get your money? He's like, I'm talking an empty telephone. What do you think? Like, that's an interesting way to play that scene

where he's just like, yeah, I'm just going to lie pretend like it was money even then I sent like a bunch of Xerox paper. Good, right? Yeah. And then he says it,

in Vanceance, just holding the phone and just kind of has that look like. Just completely terrified. Another one's aged the best. We talked about, well, you know, for me, the action is the juice.

That's how I live my life. Yeah, the action. is the juice. Ashley Judd, Valcomer saying about her. For me, man, the sun rises and sets with her, man. It's great. I want somebody to say about me. I say that about you. Haysbert quitting the diner and then beating the shit out of his good. Underrated? His boss, yeah. Tracking crooks of that electronic surveillance. We mentioned that. The whole life philosophy of don't get attached to anything, you're not willing to walk out in 30 seconds. And then Moby at the end. The music in general. L.A. Goldenthals. God moving over the face.

of the waters. Yeah. So you got that. Anything else for what stage is the best? Vincent Hanna's jewelry. I want to be a guy who wears gold chains

and bracelets again. Like why we don't do that enough? I had another, it's a borderline, which is the best. Michael Mann, who is clearly an alien. Yeah.

Like, I don't think he's somebody like, hey, Michael, want to come over and watch the Chiefs game with me? He would come over to watch like the 72 Chiefs because he was thinking about making like a Lamar Hunt movie.

Right. So his, In Michael Mann's world, when people get together, it's people at a large dinner table with their spouses and everybody's laughing and it's not awkward at all. Or it's like a huge party and everybody's dancing. And it's just like he has, he glorifies what the barbecue and baseball ball games thing. What's age the best for you? Oh, also, can we say that Trejo wearing a zip up hoodie with no t-shirt underneath when he calls from the paper? Trejo is just a general.

I just start doing that in the summer? Like, I just walk into your office and I'm wearing a zip up that goes up to here and then the rest is just, it's just open chest. Do it right now. Okay. I think for me, what stage the best is the action is the juice. I love that more and more. Ever since you pointed out how Sysmore just fucking goes for it, it fucking kills me every time. Man lets it roll.

Oh, it's great. He's just like, you've got 40 seconds of footage here. I also, I would just say, like, in all seriousness, this version of L.A., the locations, the way L.A. looks, like, all the fucking, the fucking, wangro. coming out of the bathroom at the restaurant and the first scene, you know, to come meet to come meet Michael. It's just like these little spots that you see if you're driving around Los Angeles and you're just like, God, who would ever think to put a movie next to the taco stand next to the car wash on Pico? And it's like Michael Mann did. Well, we should have had that in what stage is the best? LA. Yeah. And the fact that when we saw this movie, we lived on the East Coast,

and this was an L.A. We only knew L.A. from movies and movies like Swingers and this movie and whatever else they're in, the player. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's what Hollywood Hills must be like. Beverly Hills 9-0-2-0. Oh, Beverly Hills is right next to the ocean. Right. Like, we're just, that's how we're absorbing LA.

And then when you move here, this movie just takes a whole other life. And you think every time I've ever been out in like sixth and flower. Yeah. You have like a business meeting or, you know, a lunch or guys in open shirts. Yeah, you're like, oh, shit. Imagine a massive bag shootout right now. That would be fucked up. They built on gun ranges, they built like a mock version of Fifth Street to shoot.

to just, like, shoot the guns and train for that scene. What's age the worst? Neil's apartment. Can't get a couch? I know. I know. Did they have... Did they have...

Did they have... Crate and Barrel back then? I don't think you had, like, the ease of use. Like, is this like... It's not like he would be getting IKEA furniture. Get a futon. Yeah. There's a big futon era of the mid-90s.

Jump around. I wish there was a better hip-hop song. It's one of the worst moments in the movie as well. What would you have gone for? 95. I think I probably... At that point, you have, the New York scene, Atlanta's starting to take off. And it's L.A., so you probably have more like death row stuff.

Right. You know, so maybe some Tupac or something, like even. Yeah, you could have done Tupac's like, because Tupac's still alive at that point. In 95, yeah, right. Could have done my favorite. Picture me rolling. Payphones. Payphones. Age the worst. Payphones are an integral character in this movie, ironically.

Jeremy Piven's hair, tough, rough times. Rough times. Didn't have the entourage toupee yet. What a drive-by on Piven. That's a tough one. Tough times. Pacino beating up Henry Rollins. It's not Henry Rollins.

And you have a whole thing about the incredible stunt man who's seven times bigger than Pacino. But just in general the concept. And Pacino just put fucking Stone Cold Steve Austin's him. What do you have Pacino against Henry Rollins in real life? Late 50s Pacino comes in and just like leg drops this guy. What is he like a plus-2500 underdog against Henry Rollins? The guy who's saying liar. And you know that that's probably bothered Henry Rollins for 25 years.

He's like, I gotta kick that guy's ass. He's a fucking A. The very beginning, the first time we see Pacino he's making out, and I'd like to induct Al Pacino in the, when I see you making out in a movie or TV show, it's just fucking gross. Don't kiss anybody or anything. Please. I just picture like...

So you haven't watched Sea of Love recently? Oh, that's another one. You just picture these actors of them, and he's like an ashtray. He's like the alien. He's like licking their face, and they're just like, oh my God, this is the worst moment of my life. Vincent's relationship and his lady's remarkably

sophisticated way of describing it. I love that. Also the fact that Justine is like constantly self-medicating. I know, but is it a little over the top when... Well, they are like literally cutting to the chase. They're like, here's how I held on to all that pain and trauma and angst to give me my edge.

And she's like, I need you to be present. It's like, I told you when we hooked up baby, you were going to have to share me with all the bad people and all the other events of this planet. I told you when we hooked up, baby. You were going to have to share me. And then she says, you've got to be present like a normal guy some of the time.

That's sharing. This is not sharing. This is leftovers. I think my wife said this to me like two weeks ago. So actually, that was pretty realistic. But then later, she really dows it up. If somebody just said this to you and ad lib the following paragraph,

you would think, You're one of the great orators of our time. You should run for office. She rattles this off. You don't live with me. You live among the remains of dead people. You sift through the detritus. You read the terrain.

You search for signs of passing for the scent of your prey. And then you hunt them down. That's the only thing you're committed to. The rest is the mess you leave as you pass through. For somebody to just rattle that off, put them, give them an HBO show. They should be on 1130 on Friday night. It's talking about Trump. And then she has your favorite line.

I may be stoned on grass and Prozac But yeah You've been walking through our life dead And now I have to demean myself with Ralph Just to get closer with you I think that Justine should have gotten the picture Even though she obviously has a very good sense of who Vincent is The fact that Vincent never takes his television

Off the dinner table And he's just got like this shitty TV box Like on the dinner table And she's like I worked for on dinner four hours ago And he's like I got to turn on SportsCenter and watch Oberman and Patrick. Right, right.

What happened in that Worriess game? All right, next category. What do we say age the worst? Jump Around? Yeah, let's say jump around. New category, just for you. Best overly aggressive facial hair or hairstyle in this movie. Here are your nominees.

I'll let you pick. John Void's everything. Every single thing John Void's doing. Hayesbert's Fu Manchu. Pacino's kind of blow-dry look. Looks like he got a croft. Yeah. De Niro's Van Dyke, I think it's called.

similar to what I have now. I shaved in honor of that. Just in honor of them. And then Val Kilmer's bad guy hair. This is really the only air. Mid-90s is the only time you could have that look and say Valcomer's a bad guy. Now, I think 25 years later, he's covered in tattoos. Yeah.

He looks more like Tritow does now. Most guys look like Trito, I think. What's your favorite out of all those? John Voitz everything? I'm going to go, yeah, because I was going to say that John Voitz's makeup artist gets Dionne Waiters. Oh, yeah. Would you, if you had to pick one, John Voitz, everything, or Tom Noonan's will, inexplicably

in a wheelchair. I like the wheelchair. I'm going to go with the wheelchair. It's a bold move. Yeah, I know. He's a little bit of wheelchair, but it's like, well, Tom Noonan can walk. Why'd they pick a wheelchair? Also, like, once they get all the information they need from Kelso, why don't they

just say, like, thanks, we're just not going to pay you, like, what are you to do, like, come after us? He lost his ability to walk after he invented the internet. It took so much out of him. Casting what-ifs. We didn't do casting what-ifs last time. Some great ones. In the 1980s, this blew my mind.

Didn't know this. Michael Mann shopped the script to Walter Hill to direct. It probably would have been a different movie, obviously. Hill turned it down. I would just tell you this. Walter. Late 80s, if the news had come out that Walter Hill and Michael Mann were collaborating on a Bank Ice movie, I would have had to have been carried out of my dorm room.

Who do you think would have started the Walter Hill version? Like Nick Nolty and Don Johnson? Definitely Don Johnson's above. Yeah. Keanu Reeves originally assigned to play Chris, Valcomer's character, lost the part when Valcomer was able to squeeze it into a schedule while making Batman Forever in 1995. No shit.

I didn't know that. Keanu Reeves as Chris. I kind of like it. Oh, I would totally go for that. It's a little different movie, but... Keanu Reeves the biggest movie star in the world at this time. When speed come out? Speed is out.

Jesus. Jesus. Michael Madsen, originally, cast as Michael Choretto ultimately replaced for Tom Seismore prints these unknown reasons. I could take a couple guesses. Don Johnson, briefly considered

for the part of Michael, also discussed as a possible backup for both De Niro and Pacino. I actually watched this after I read that and watched every Michael scene thinking, would this be better with Don Johnson? Did Michael Chorito scenes? The Tom Seizmore scenes. The answer is no.

No. I think it would have been distracting to have Don Johnson. in the movie. I think it could have worked. I think Don Johnson would have been better as Nate. William Peterson

allegedly turned down the role of Michael. I don't know if I believe that. This one's a good one. Michael Mann's really dealing out the Michael Cherito part as if it was like John Cazow and Godfather.

It's a good part, but it's like, no wonder these guys couldn't find the right person. Ted Levine, a.k. Buffalo Bill. Yes.

She big fat person. Ted Levine originally offered the part of Wayne Groh. Probably didn't want to double down, right? Turned it down. Felt he was being tight cast.

Asked to play the guy that he played. I think Ted Levine is Wayne Groh. I can't fathom it. It's like if the Celtics had won the Duncan lottery. I don't know. I can't wrap my head around it. It's too good. There's too much.

If he's basically just Buffalo Bill as Wayne Grove, I don't know. I actually think I would like that movie more. I had to get it all. I had to get it on, man. I had to. too. You guys want some pie.

I got some moves I can make here. You don't know what pain it is, Michael. John Voight initially turned down the part of Nate, told Michael Mann several actors could perform the part better. Man said, I've always wanted to work with you. I want you for this role. And Voight said, okay. This is half-ass.

This was on the internet. I don't know if it's true. Lee Gong was offered the role of Justine. She refused unless the script was translated into Mandarin. That seems pretty half fast. Does he wind up working with her on Miami Vice? Yeah. Right.

I don't know how I feel about that. It seems fishy. How old would she be in 95? Young. Yeah. I think that one is really half-fast. The last one, James Khan lamented to Michael Mann as they were doing their 1998 DVD commentary for Thief that he didn't have a role in heat.

Oh, my God. And apparently it's great and awkward. If he had played Nate. He should have played Nate, right? Yeah. Yeah. So... Throw James Khan a bone.

He carried thief. What do you... If I could... If I give you... James Khan is Nate and Keanu Reeves as Chris. Oh, man. Do you want that more than what you got?

I got to say, I'd rather have Kilmer. I love Kilmer's part. I love Kilmer in this movie. I don't totally know what he's doing, which is what I like. He's playing it... I could see Keanu being like, the sunrises and sets with her, bro. Like... He's playing it like him and...

And the red-high chili peppers did like Molly in some alley right before he started filming his scenes or something. I don't know what's happening with him, but I love it. All right, next one. Best That Guy, A.K. the Joey Pants Award. We did a Twitter poll today asking if we should change this to the Wingrow Award. And the people spoke and they said, keep it Joey Pants. Yeah. So there you go.

Wingrow is the ultimate that guy because you have, this is a movie of Hall of Fame that guy. It's West Dutie, guy from Last of Mohicans, Ted Levine Buffalo. Bill. Piven. Michael Tay Williamson, who was Bubba Gump. Tom Noonan, guy from Manhunter.

Brian Libby from Silent Rage and Shawshank. William Fickner. What else was he in? Oh, like Armageddon. All kinds of stuff. Armageddon. Wayne Grove is Wayne Grove.

Does Kevin Gage done other stuff? He's done some other stuff. He kind of went to jail for a little while there. Oh. Yeah. He spent some time in the prison. And the Wayne Grove thing, I think, helped him.

He had some quotes about how the Wayne Groh thing bought him some juice in prison. I had to get it on, man. My soulmate was looking at me. So I think Wayne Groh, I don't think anyone knows that's Kevin Gage. If you walked in right now, you'd be like, Wingrow. I would assume Wingrow is going to get Dionne Waiters. Well, let's do it next. Do we get a double Wang?

Well, we can skip over Saul Rubinick. They knew Linda Partridge overacting word because Pechino's basically retires it. Can we change it to the Vincent Hanna? Yeah, let's change it to Vincent Hanna. Let's do it. We'll do that as the... Give me all you got. Yeah, the Vincent Hanna...

Give me all you got! All right, so we're changing that to the Vincent Hanna Overacting Award, give me all you got. The only other nomination... Then you get to do Vincent Hanna for the next hundred movies that we do. Yeah, but I was only going to say that the second place, the runner-up in the Vincent Hanna Award, Natalie Portman would be like, Mom, my Barrettes aren't in the couch!

Yeah, she does dial it up. That is true. DM Waiters, your nominees, Wayne Grove. Hayesbert's Diner Bar. I knew that would kill you. What a fucking scumbag. Yeah. Oh my God.

He really, he's got three scenes and they're all like, you're just like, oh, fucking punch that guy in the face. Paco and Cisco called out sick. Mop up the floor. Take the trash out. Take your break later. Tonloak. John Voight, Tom Noonan. It's probably Waingrove.

I think he's in few enough scenes that he's eligible. But I would really like to make the case for Hayesburg-steiner boss. Is Judd on the outside looking in here? Maybe. It's about risk. squorses for more, baby? Right. She's in it too much.

Yeah. Okay. I think she's in it too much. All right. What do you think? Haysebert's Diner Boss or Wayne Grove? Should we give it to Haysebert's Dider Boss just to break it up? Yeah.

Let's do it. All right. Recasting couch. If you had to recast any part of this movie, what would you do? Guy put Gongley in every role. Gongley is Justine. So I have this one. I thought about it.

And maybe just because we did an awesome podcast with Tarantino. And he raved about Lawrence Fishburn for 10 minutes and how he was the brando of his generation, all this stuff. Maybe this part's too small for him. But Fishburn in the Michael T. Williamson role. He's in four scenes. He gets to be in the shootout.

I could see Fishburn as Neil. Oh. Because he has that... Oh, wow. So you're shooting higher for Fishburn. Yeah. I'd rather have De Niro. Yeah. I mean, I understand.

I was just trying to get Fishburn in the movie. The other one I was thinking was Ed Norton as Van Zant like a year before Primal Fear, early Ed Martin, you don't really know who he is yet, but he's got that look at his face. And Martin would be like, I got to rewrite the script, though. It's like, hey, instead of an empty telephone,

I think that's confusing. So I have that, any recasting for you, or are you a perfect movie? It's a perfect movie, and I think also the casting what ifs are actually, like, more tantalizing than anything I could imagine. I guess the question gets into, what would we do if we were recasting it for a remake? We'll get there. Okay. Half-Fast internet research, only a couple things.

The cast spent time at Folsom Prison and with real life LAPD to detectives. Man was really big on that. They went to all these different places, talked to a lot of people. Kevin Gage in prison for two years in 2003, universally addressed by fellow inmates and prison guards as Wayne Groh. Wayne Grove based on a real Chicago criminal name Wayne Groh. According to Michael Mann, he ratted out some influential Chicago criminals went missing. His body was founded in northern Mexico where it had been nailed to the wall of a shed. Tough times for the real life Wayne Grove. We mentioned the cocaine. Kate Mantellini. the famous diner where they shot the diner scene, which when I moved to LA, I demanded to go to. And I probably, I went there enough times

that I brought both of my kids went there and it was on Beverly on Wilshare. It's a great place. And it closed down in 2014. Is that the one that's still there and like you can use it for locations? I think,

no, no, no, that's not it. They turned in into something else. Table 71 was where they filmed. But I, so bummed out they got rid of that. They should just keep shit like that around.

Yeah. We need another like nail salon, like seriously? You know how billionaires buy, you know, like the Atlantic or something. They've been an LA billionaire right here and be like, hey, I'm saving Cape Manalinas. I love that place.

Hey, Lord Powell Jobs. Instead of by the Atlantic, why didn't you buy the diner from heat? David Geffitt, what's he doing? In the director's commentary, Michael Mann said Neal's trademark gray suits were designed to help him blend into a crowd not draw attention to himself. And his shirt collars were starched because that's how they do it in prison.

Yeah. How many dead bodies? 35. 21. 52 have bombs. Okay. A couple more half-ass internet research things. Ralph played by Xander Berkeley played Wingrow and LA Takedown. Oh, yeah. Callback.

Yeah. And one night in 2015, Casey Holdall, who is a Portland Trailblazer sideline reporter, tweeted that BJ's on Alvarado does not exist. So I was just imagining him being out with like Alvarukamino and Mo Harkless looking for BGITR. He just tweeted it with like in no context.

Jesus. Let's take a break. We're going to do Apex Mountain one second. Hey, with the new year officially here and everyone vowing to restrictive resolutions, Pepsi wants to usher in the new decade a bit differently by encouraging everyone to unapologetically do what you enjoy. Even in the face of others' judgment. So Pepsi encourages you to let loose. Be yourself. Live life like nobody's watching.

More importantly, live your life. like nobody's watching. You know what I like to watch? Heat. That's why we've done two rewatchables podcasts about it. I like to watch the same movies over and over again. Do I care if my wife judges me because I'm watching the last 30 minutes of Shawshank yet again when I just saw it two weeks ago?

No, I do what I want to do. You know what else I like to do? I buy popcorn or I make microwave popcorn and then I pour M&Ms in it. And then I throw them together and I eat the popcorn and the M&Ms. Probably not healthy. I don't care. It's what I like. Pepsi, that's what I like. Man, sometimes when we do Apex Mountain, there's only a couple, maybe there's nobody. A lot of here. Michael Mann. I would go yes. Me too. Kate Manolini's, yes.

L.A. bank robbery movies? Yes. Not Al Pacino. Can't be. Over the top, late prime Al Pacino. Instead of a woman on? Yeah. I'm basically everything from Sea of Love on is a is Apex Mountain. Because some people would say son of a woman. I think he's better in heat. I think he indoors. And I can't remember the last time

I had a conversation about son of a woman. If somebody was like, hey, you know, do you have five minutes? I have some scent of a woman thoughts. He'd be like, what? So he goes,

send of a woman. Glenn Gary, I would put it in there at 92. Glenn Gary, set of woman, Carlitos, he, City Hall, Donnie Brasco,

devil's advocate, insider any given Sunday. I feel like that's the brick right there. That's the one. So I would say, other nominee is any given Sunday the speech is also iconic and so

the inches are all around us another apex mountain it's not Valcomer's apex mountain I don't think no that would be probably probably little or no it'd be like early 90s Willow?

Batman? No tombstone tombstone it's starting to get weird Valcomer's apex sure Dr. Moreau time it's yeah the wheels are starting to come off and it's fun and we don't know where it's going, but it all starts here as Chris, whatever his name is.

Amy Braderman, absolutely apex mound. I know she's judging Amy. She had a show called Judging Amy. I know. She made a million dollars, but she has NYPD Blue and then this back to back and is going to be one of the hot actresses, hot, meaning hot, like career hot, for the next 10 years, it leads to judging Amy. Judging Amy is the cherry and the hot for Sunday that's laid in 94 and 95.

Okay. So you think that by crossing over the Atlantic and settling in Appalachian, you know, that's how she gets judging Amy. Fair. All right, fine. I'm from the Bay. That's all right. So we'll veto that one.

How about character actor John Voight? Because this is when the journey starts for him. Now he's in Ali. Some people would say varsity blues, but this is when John Boye becomes a character. This is definitely my favorite John Voight performance. I'm going yes for character actor John Boyd. Tom Seismore.

I think Saving Private Ryan is probably, I think he has like a little bit more of a developed character in Saving Private Ryan. Okay. But that's a pretty. pretty nice little mid-90s run for him here to be in heat and saving private Ryan. Ashley Judd? I would say no.

I think her, I think Double Jeopardy is her Apex Mountain. I stand by that movie. Also, her... Late career emergence is like a University of Kentucky Superfan. It's been pretty awesome, too. It's pretty good.

Yeah. Double Jeopardy was a great idea for a movie. She goes to jail for murdering her husband and can't get convicted of actually killing him. Great idea. Last one, post-prime, De Niro and Pacino. So he said Pacino, yes, for that. And post-prime De Niro?

It's a tough one. He said he had some good ones there. So let's see what... He had some Cape Fair. He had some... So he has casino. Is Goodfellas still in his, like, Wheelhouse Prime? I would say it is.

I'm going to say no, because it's too confusing. BJ's at Alvarado? I mean, not existent, but it's Apex Mountain since it doesn't exist. Jump around? No. Definitely not. No. Piven without hair.

I would say it's either this or when he plays the cashier in singles or PCU. What about asking a bunch of guys playing pickup basketball night if they have any, nowhere if they can get some bread? Didn't we spend like 25 minutes on that in the last podcast? Picking Nets. I have a couple. That was one of them.

Falkim are getting in the car asking people if they know where they can get bread. And then the police somehow letting him go. This is a huge. huge takeout waiting for Valcomer to show up. She's like, that's not him. How about just arrest him and see if it is him? Yeah. How about just to double check?

Just bring him in. Let's get a fingerprint. You were able to get a helicopter so that Vincent could have coffee with Neil. You can't bring this guy and put him in the backseat of a car for five minutes? It's not like he stole $20 from a diner. There's dead bodies all over downtown L.A. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to bring him in and play it safe. He's wearing Jeremy Piven's shirt.

Right. It's true. I think Fishburn brings him in. I think it was Michael T. Heimson's fine. Michael Mann's, we talk about this all the time Michael Mann's movies. His refusal to just look at a map in L.A.

and acknowledge that locations are far away from one another. Michael Mands' version of L.A. There's also never any traffic. No, no traffic. Venice is right next to downtown L.A. It's just a complete mess. When they come up on the first robbery, the armored truck robbery, he's like,

this is good location, two freeways right here. I'm like, two freeways. They're just going to be sitting in fucking traffic. Yeah, what freeways? So they could just take 10 minutes to get on the freeway? That was rough. All these criminals go to the fancy dinner with their family almost immediately after pulling off this huge heist.

It's a great idea for them all to be seen together in public. Big dinner check. Also, is it just weird that Neil's alone? Couldn't Neil bring, like, his aunt or hooker? Neal's like, a hostitute. Neil's like, you leave in 30 seconds when you feel the heat around the corner. Can I have the veal parmesan? Can you lightly cook the bread?

So we covered why the hell did you like, Neil? Here's, I mean, the other big nitpick for this is the team gets caught basically because Michael calls everyone slick. This is a downfall. A witness in the beginning bank robbery, hears Michael say, call somebody slick. Pacino's able to fact check this through Albert and tone love's character. The weird thing is in the beginning, it says a. a witness heard somebody call a guard slick. Pacino then is like run slick as an alias,

even though they're calling the security guard slick. So why would you think it's one of the guys in the crew is named slick? They run slick as an alias, gets the phone book. And then Tone Loke is like... Oh yeah, there's only one person in L.A. who's ever used the word slick for another human being. And then it's like, bam, we have all these guys under surveillance. Boom. It is the why...

Say what's it what? Slick. It's why did K. Corleone notice that the drapes were open of this movie? Yes. It's just too convenient. Any other pickin'nits? We covered all. No, I have some unanswerable questions about picking nits.

Best quote other than quotes we haven't said already. I am alone. I'm not lonely. Yeah. I'm not like you lonely. Lonely. Great one. That'd be a Twitter bio thing.

Sure. Should I change my Twitter? Take the watch and rewatchables out? Executive editor is the rigor. I'm a load. I'm not lonely. I don't know if my wife would be a little about that. You prefer the normal routine.

We fucking, you lose the power of speech. Pretty insulting. Tough one. That's definitely like a marriage counselor needs to be at least called at that point. De Niro saying, You see me doing a real secret look as to a hold-ups were born to lose tattoo on my chest? No, I do not. If it rains, you get wet.

All I am is all I'm going after. Those are just great quotes we have mentioned. I got a. You can get killed walking your doggy. Right, right. I like, when Voight is talking to De Niro in the car, and he's like, he's a maniac.

He was working narcotics before that, and he's been in three marriages. What do you think that means? He like, stand at home? Right. He's one of those guys out prowling around all night, dedicated. Now I'm saying, I'm doing everybody's voice as McCullough, as Anna.

I fully support it. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? Fuck yeah. I'm actually ready to say this. I have an announcement. Where's my camera? That one? I'll use that one.

Hey, everybody. I'm ready for heat to be remade as a 10-episode streaming series for somebody. And I want Michael Mann to executive produce it. And I want new actors. And I think it's done. There you go. Who are you going to cast? I don't know.

Come on. Who's Vincent and Neil? Just take a run at it. Do you want to stay in the age bracket? We got it, right? Late 40s to mid-50s age bracket. So we're looking at like Brad Pitt range? Yeah.

Brad Pitt with his hair dyed black. Brad Pitt is Macaulay? Yeah. Brad Pitt would be Macaulay to me. First time he's made a TV show, Brad Pitt. Uh-huh. Is he too old? No, I don't think so.

Not for McCauley. And then who would go? Do we... Why don't we just put Leo as Vincent? Pretty good. I mean, who says no, right? The reunion? Denzel is Neil?

Too old? That's, I think he's a little too old. I think he's, I don't think he's moving. What's our worst case scenario? Will Smith is Neil? Or like they go too young and it's like, it's like Timothy Shalameh and Ansel Al Goret. Yeah, Timothy Shalamey as Niels.

We do support. Wait for 20 years. Yeah. I have to think about it. This would be a good thing. Well, when we. I like, I think that Ruffalo has some residual L.A. cop stuff that he, you know, he hasn't worked out from collateral.

He's so good in collateral with the goate and the hair slickback. Can I give you this one? Uh-huh. Downey? So what about Ruffalo and Downey? I didn't think Ruffalo is big enough. He's the Hulk. It's got to be, what about Downey as Neil and Brad Pitt as?

Do you think Downey hangs out with it? Brad Pitt doing the thing when, you know, when he's kind of like, I'm a little fucked up, Brad Pitt. I've been a little beaten down by life or I might have something going on. I'm just watching episodes of Marin. The guy from seven, 25 years older Brad Pitt. Yeah. I'd probably watch that. Probably unanswerable questions.

Is there a more evil act by a bad guy in a movie than when they grab the little kid as a human shield? No. I mean, yes, but not in the context of this year, you're immediately like, Tureto's got to go. Sorry, Mrs. Tureto. It's funny. You're so into these guys escaping.

Then when he does that, I'm like, good move! And it's like, oh, God, that's a little kid. Dump the kid. What are you doing? Did Tom Noon and invent the internet? Let's just talk about it. We can't say he didn't. It's great that Neil is like,

what are you talking about? It's like, it's the internet. And Neil's like, how did you get this? He's like, it's just out there. And Neil's like, I don't understand. And it's like, in three years, everybody's going to understand. But Neil's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Would it be that easy for a dude running with a gun at a hotel near LLAX to then run to where the planes are taking off and landing?

No. Well, pre-9-11 easier. But yeah, I think it's still pretty challenging. I don't think if you're making this movie again in 2020, that they'd have to address that one. They would definitely have to address. It would have to take place at like Union Station. Maybe you have to get any on trains.

Did this film cause more bank robberies? So there's stuff on the internet about this. Since the movie was released in winter 95, armored car robberies in South Africa, Colombia, Norway, Denmark, most famously, 1997, North Hollywood. Huge shootout. The North Hollywood branch of Bank America was robbed.

They were confronted by the OAPD as they left the bank. One of the longest and bloodiest events of its type in American police history. Jesus. Both robbers killed, 11 police officers, seven bystanders, injured, and the movie he was blamed as one of the reasons that happened. I have a probably unanswerable question for you. That's very specific, I think, to your expertise. Dude, I have four more, so I'm glad you have one.

Okay. When Chris goes to Neil's house and he's sleeping on the floor, then they get some coffee and they're talking about, you know, like, why would Charlene be upset at you? And he's like not enough stakes in the fridge or not enough stakes in the freezer. And he's talking about how the Super Bowl cleaned him out.

So the 95 Super Bowl is Chargers-Niners. So we're in L.A. Oh, this is great. What's he... Does he really think the Chargers are going to beat Steve Young that year? So this puts a time frame on heat too because that's February.

So you think he saw Stan Humphreys in the AFC title game? He's like, man, Stan Humphreys. If you're telling me, it's Junior Sayow versus Steve Young, I'm taking the linebacker. Like, what was he thinking? How much money do you think he lost on the Chargers? Or maybe it was a spread thing.

Maybe the 40, I don't know. Maybe he bet the Chargers to cover. That was a dinner scene that maybe they cut. Or maybe that's at the diner before Wingrow gets there. They're like, so what do you do for the Super Bowl? Well, I also like the idea. I love the Trone Means. I think it's his time.

Because before, like, before like there was obviously this gambling explosion in popular culture. The time when you would hear gambling advice is like on Saturday mornings or Friday nights on sports talk radio and there would be a guy who would be like, I like the charges on the road in the rain at the Meadowlands

because Stan Humphreys is never lost when the wind blows west to east. And it's like I would love a scene of Chris Cheryl's driving around listening to gambling advice. Well, they also had the sports advisors back then because it's my buddy Jeff and I we used to watch them every weekend.

Stu Feiner talking about I have a miracle super bet for you. The Chargers Plus 14. And you know, Chris Charles is like, I guess I got to go rob some precious metals because I got wiped out by the fucking Chargers. What if Chris was like a big, maybe he's from San Diego. He's a big Air Correale Chargers fan? Well, he's got an Arizona driver's license, so I wonder if he's like more of a, of a cards guy.

Had they moved from St. Louis yet, 95? Maybe you bet the under. Yeah. Because that game went way over to. 4928. Yeah, he's like low scoring, Chargers defense. Yeah. Sayab's really going to be checkbaiting Steve Young.

George Sefer just unleashed on him. Now, if he was really a gambling degenerate, he would have said, I got cleaned out by the Super Bowl, and then I tried to win it back at the Pro Bowl. At March Madness. No, Pro Bowl. The Pro Bowl is the ultimate game we're doing.

It's like, you bet on the Pro Bowl? What a degenerate you are. Whatever happened to Chris was my most, my next out-answer. Moves to Vegas. Starts his own sports book. I feel like he's dead within two years, right? He's killed by somebody he owes money to in Las Vegas.

He definitely moves to Vegas, though. Right, because he's without Charlene. He's without Dominic, sweet Dominic. And he's kind of like unhinged. He probably goes to Vegas, gets in deep with some bookies, gets killed.

That was my next one. Is Dominic? What's his life like? He's been in prison multiple times. Drucker lays out a pretty dark scenario for Dominic. Gladiator Academies, stealing cars, fucked for life,

Chino. So what if, how about this? What if he was the kid from the OC? Why can't Dominic be in the Netflix version? Well, we had that in our last pod. Did we?

That Portman is now detective chasing Dom. Did we talk about that? Yeah. Yeah, we did. And Heat, too. He too is Portman and Dominic. I love it. And Neil and Edie's son that we don't know that. Edy was pregnant. We didn't realize. That's why when he was around the corner.

Yeah, she wanted to drive away. This is my most unanswerable question and really why Neil's a hypocrite. Was Neil a hypocrite for going back for Chris during the bank shooting? I think Neil breaks his own rules all the time in this movie. Yeah. Even hiring Hayesbert is ridiculous. Right. Hey, there's this fry cook. Let's hire him.

You know, there's no... You remember the drill? Yeah, I'm good. Okay, great. Here's a gun. Don't you want to know why that guy's slinging eggs? Maybe like he's not, like, the top-notch getaway driver you need? He's a total hypocrite for going back to Chris.

The ultimate example of the heats around the corner, you can't have anyone in your life that you can't walk away from 30 seconds. Unless it's your stone to Jenner Gamble friend. Then you have to go back for him. Unless it's your buddy who thought Junior Sayhouse is just too hard to pass up on. What's heat too? We basically laid that out. Heat, too, is either you modernize it with new people. Get tech and get the additional iPhones.

You do it with an all-black cast. Or Kelso's started Facebook. Right. Or you do generational heat too where you have Portman, Dominic, Neil and Edie's illegitimate son with Neil. Trito's daughter. Is you a daughter in this or just a son? I can't remember. And then maybe the little girl that Chirito picks up gets revenge in anyone.

All right. Last question. Who in the movie? Pachino. This time around, it's Pacino. Wow. I thought Michael Man like hands down. I'm just saying that I think that Pacino is the engine of this movie. Like, Pacino brings energy in every single scene.

I think Pacino wins a movie for you. Yes. For all the things you love. Yes. Yeah, I can see it. I'm going to say Michael Man. Okay. Because he pulled it off.

He got these two awesome actors to basically do their thing along with all of these character actors. It's almost perfectly cast. It holds up beautifully. it creates the anti-hero template. It sets the wave for 25 years and just being ripped off. And it's the best movie ever made. I think.

I agree. Some people would say The Insider, maybe. Yeah, I mean, there are people who would make the argument for Manhunter, but I think that he is his best movie. I think that Insider is like probably a critically acclaimed one. Chris Ryan, we did it. The reheat. The reheat.

We'll see you 200 episodes. I wonder what that pot will look like. All right, thanks to Sonos, upgrade your movie watching experience. and enjoy brilliant sound your way with Sonos, every Sonos speaker designed from the inside out

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Pepsi wants to usher in the new decade a bit differently by encouraging everyone to unapologetically do what you enjoy, even in the face of others' judgment. Like when I put popcorn and M&Ms together and think I'm a genius because I've merged two of my favorite things.

I feel like I've invented this. I see other people do it. It's mine. Pepsi, that's what I like. We'll be back. The next rewatchables we're doing, oh, it's a good one. Might be a current movie, relatively current.

That's a hint. See you then.