The Rewatchables - ‘The Rock' With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mina Kimes

Episode Date: May 25, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan are joined by the only podcaster to escape Alcatraz, ESPN's Mina Kimes, to rewatch the 1996 box office hit ‘The Rock,' starring Sean Connery, Nicolas Cage, and Ed Harris, and directed by Michael Bay. Hosts: Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mina Kimes Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo! What up, y'all? I'm Shay Serrano. New York Times, bestselling author. And I'm Brandon Jinks Jenkins, writer, journalist, podcaster. We have a new podcast.

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That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch. Maybe there's no catch. That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow, you need to relax. I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this tablewood? I think it's laminated. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on. Pick up fees may apply.

We're also brought to you by the ringer.com as well as the ringer podcast network. Welcome to the Rock. The Rock is next. On June 7th, Alcatraz is back in business. A battery of VX gas rockets is presently deployed on the population of the San Francisco Bay Area. Now, the only way to stop the unsinkable is to get the one man who broke out of the rock. I have a unique knowledge of this prison facility. I was formerly a guest here.

To lead a chemical weapon specialist. You're chemical freak. Chemical super freak. To break back in. From Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer, the producers of Top Gun and Crimson Tide, and Michael Bay, the director of Bad Boys. Welcome to the Rock. Sean Connery. Thirty years ago I found I wouldn't die in this toilet.

Nicholas Gage. All right, I had to do it myself. I got three weeks weapons training. Ed Harris. Fire. This summer, get ready. You had enjoying this? To Rock.

That's just about the most of the thing I've ever seen. The Rock, rated R. Chris Ryan is here. Mina Kimes is here. I broke the ice already with a Sean Connery impersonation. Chris, I don't know. What do you want to break it out 20 minutes in?

Are you saving it? Is it like the shark reveal and jaws? How are you planning it? I think I am going to save it for when you least expect it. Okay. Okay, Chris Ryan. Oh, God. The Rock described on Wikipedia as a 1996 American action thriller film

directed by Michael Bay. produced by Don Simpson and Jerry Buck, Bruckheimer. That's really all you need to know. It's set in Alcatraz. Mina, is this one of the greatest premises in the history of movies for you? Just the fundamental premise of we have

basically Marine domestic terrorists on Alcatraz ready to do bad things to San Francisco and the only person who can stop them is the one guy who escaped from Alcatraz who we never do about? It's pretty incredible. of all, Bill, brave of you to have me on right before my nets sweep your Celtics. So I just want to nod to that really quickly. Fair. Yeah, no. I... You're nets. It is a, yeah, really alienating

every listener right before we begin. The premise is incredible. The staying power of the film, and this is one of my all-time favorite movies, which is why I'm on this podcast, if anyone's wondering, is the performances. But the premise is incredible. just the final two-thirds of this movie slaps so hard. And yeah, I love everything about this film. Chris? The logical conclusion of die-hard on a blank.

So 88, die-hard comes out. And then for almost 10 years, they basically try to perfect die-hard, put die-hard on H-G-H cycles, give die-ard a little bit of the cream and the clear from Balco. Just tweak it a little bit here and there. And then the rock finishes the chapter.

It's like, this is as good as you can do when you try to put die hard on a blank. You know, Alcatraz, I feel like was at the peak of its nostalgic powers in the 90s. Because I remember I had friends, two of my best friends from high school moved there after college. And I'd started to go visit them, like, every year in 94 range. And like, the one thing I wanted to do when I went there in 94 was like, we got to go to Alcatraz. It was like, what was a cooler place at that point that Clint Eastwood movie had been out? So you kind of knew it from that. but also like, you can go there, you can walk around.

There's a tour. I remember so I married an Axe Murder. They also had some Alcatraz stuff. And I was just so fascinated by that place. So it tapped into that. But Sean Connery is the big takeaway from this movie. We'll go into Nick Cage in a second. But it's one of his last great performances.

It's kind of a one-of-one performance. I don't know who else could have been Sean Connery really at any point in life. And I know Mina would. Mary, Mary 1996, Sean Connery right now. All right. I'll just spill the beans.

And our group texts before this, I said, this is Sean Connery's, this is the most sex appeal he's ever had in a movie, which is wild because he was James Bond. Yeah.

And I've seen pretty much every John, John Connery James Bond movie, and I like a lot of them. But he is, I hate the word badass, but he is so incredibly badass in this movie. Every line delivery, every,

from his entrance to the end, Every moment of his, especially if you're a preteen when I watch this, just blows your socks off. He's so good in this movie. He carries himself like, I'm better than everyone in this movie. I'm smarter than everyone in this movie. I kind of can't believe I'm here, but I'm just going to toy with everybody for two hours. This is one of the great victory laps in movie acting is the run that he goes on from untouchables on through this. And, you know, like he does basically one last good movie, I guess, Finding Forrester, which is more of like lived on because

if it's memeability, then it has been because it's a decent film at all. You're the man now, dog. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you, Sean Connery. It's like, I'm hearing your ghost. But, you know, this whole run he goes on after he wins for untouchables is just so fucking entertaining.

And he's just like, he actually plays with his own mythology really well, but also still somehow maintains like a leading man credibility. It's just like fantastic. I can't imagine anybody else being a convincing, like, graying great actor. who also is like an action star in this Michael in this Michael Bay type of type of setup. So from 89 on, he plays Indiana Jones's dad in the third Indiana Jones movie, which was really highly anticipated once it came out like, oh shit, Connery and Ford. And then it turned out to be a really great movie.

I love that movie. He's in family business. He's in Hunt for Red October, which was huge. Russia House. Highlander 2. I don't remember that one. rising sun, it starts to die, right? Right around 95 is in Just Cause, first night.

And then has this one last run of The Rock, playing by heart, entrapment, and Finding Forrester, where you think, like, think how badly it's gone with, like, the De Niro-Puccino types with some of those, you know, they would just have these stinkers that are straight to cable. He always seemed like he was elevated a little bit higher. It always felt meaningful till the end when he was in a movie.

That's a really hard needle to think. thread. But to me, this is like late, late career Sean Connery apex. We'll get to Apex Mountain later. But I don't, who is Sean Connery now, Mina? Does that person exist? Who cares to kind of gravitas? The mid-60s guy. How old is Liam Mason at this point? He's in his maybe late, but he's carved out a different role, which is not the like charismatic badass. By the way, one of the notes of this movie, I think from the criterion collection director's cut is that Bay had to tell Connery to be less charismatic. How charismatic was he that he had to dial it down to what we see in this movie because he's a 10 in this movie?

It blows my mind. So Liam Neeson's not super charismatic. He's this kind of gruff revenge seeking every dad's fantasy is to be Liam Neeson character. I can't think of an old being like that. He's punching the clock and making like three movies a year still. They're good. I mean, I enjoy them, but... Me too.

No one is at this level, I feel like. What other things could late career, Sean Connery have been awesome at? I feel like he would have been an incredible NFL owner. Not that he had the cash, but it just would have been funny to have him do press conferences and things like that. He would have been an amazing, like, tech guy. He should have had Nick Faldo's job on the British Open. And Royce, Macaroys, come on our arms. Clearly, he wasn't up to the task with his testicular fortitude.

That was actually, you're kind of getting the accent. I knew I would warm up as it went along. I feel like I would dishonor his memory if I attempted it, so I don't want to. So, Mina, you're younger than I am. Did the bond stuff carry weight with you? Because when I was growing up, Roger Moore was my James Bond, right? And that was the only one I knew. And then everybody was like, well, that's not the real James Bond.

the real James Bond's Connery, and then you watch the Connery one. It's like, oh, yeah, that guy's better. And then it would go through. And eventually it was just accepted Connery. It was the best James Bond. It's too bad he left. But did that carry weight with your generation? It did. So when did Pierce Brosons Golden Night came out in the late 90s? Yeah, it was like mid-90s. It was around this time. Not, yeah. And so that was a big movie for my generation, you know, and Golden Night the Game. And it was a big deal. But my family, so I think I speak less for like preteens because I was a preteen when The Rock came out and more for my family,

we just watched all the James Bond movies, the Connery ones. And the reason I love action movies so much is that I had an older brother and family, have an older brother, and that's just what we watched. And so I loved Sean Connery as James Bond. Diamonds are forever, is probably my favorite of his. I don't know why I was allowed to watch those

young age because there's a lot of sex and stuff. Oh, my God. There's so much innuendo. It's like suffocating. It's gross. But I was really, but by the time the rock came out and also being like a big action movie and this was like the golden era of action movies,

which I'm sure we'll talk about, it was a big deal for me that the former great James Bond was in this role. Chris, who's our female, Sean Connery? I feel like for me it might be Jacqueline Bissett. Still feel like the way she carried herself was very Sean Connery-esque, which is mysterious. And she could just walk across a cocktail party

and be like, come with me. And it'd be like, all right, I'll see you guys later. I don't know where I'm going, but here's my money. You could make an argument that Helen Mirren is making a play for female Sean Connery. You know what I mean? Because she's in the Fast and Furious universe now, right? Right.

Same kind of confidence, right? I think the thing with Connery is, and it sticks out. much in this movie is just the confidence. There couldn't have been a more confident actor than him. And it's funny because this is a really good movie. I think we all love it. But every time I watch it, I'm like, God damn, Connery, Jesus, so good.

They do such a good dot job spotlighting him. Like he's got the silver hair, everybody else has dark hair or his bald. You know what I mean? Like they light him, they shoot him in such a way where he seems bigger than everybody. And they do a really good job masking, I think, when they must. must be using stunt doubles because... Oh, yeah. Like, in a worse,

in like an earlier action movie, you know, it's not uncommon. And Bill, we've talked about this from some of the ones that we did throughout the 80s, where like the main actor takes a punch and then a clearly different person goes flying through a window.

But with Conry, and this is a testament to how Good Bay is, it's there... I didn't spot any times last night where I was like, that's obviously not Connery, that's his body double, even though it clearly is a body double because he's getting blown off of Alcatraz

into the water. You know, he was 66 when he shot this, but he's playing a 60-year-old. This has to be one of the only action movies where the guy's pretending to be younger, but he carried it off, right? 66 is old, FYI. But that's what the reason why this movie is so good and so much better than every other Michael Pay movie is, with all due respect to Sean Fantasy, apologies. But Bad Boys 2 is okay.

But it's because of the core three. every single one of the characters is like mildly subversive in a way. You've got Ed Harris as the sympathetic villain, which was, it has, I think, the most staying power of any element of this film. Nick Cage as the weird, nerdy scientist. Again, that was kind of a new thing. And then the badass sex symbol in this movie is an old man. Like those three things are all fairly unusual decisions for an action movie. And that's why I think it's so good is because of the the three actors pull it off so well. Well, Nick Cage, who's appeared on this podcast in a couple different movies, including

8mm, which me, Chris, and two other people were the only ones that listened to. This is a really important Nick Cage career movie because he's got Kiss of Death right before leaving Las Vegas. And he's got a lot of momentum as like, this might be one of the next big guys, but it hasn't totally happened. Winsey Oscar for Leaving Las Vegas. And then just says, fuck it. and he makes the rock con air and face off back to back to back.

The rock was the first one where it's like, can this person be in action? Can he lead an action movie? Would this be believable? And it was like, oh, okay, he can. And then I think fortunately for us, because I love a lot of these Nick Cage movies for the next six, seven years.

And maybe unfortunately for his Oscar pedigree, this is just where he goes. Wait, Christy, was this his destiny or did some? Something snap in his head with with with the rock. Did you think when you saw like leaving Las Vegas or Red Rock West that he was going to be the biggest action star for the rest of the decade? I mean, this is no. The only equivalent is Downey going into Iron Man, but Downey had also had like that weird

10 years in the wilderness, you know, and had sort of started to kind of come back with kiss, kiss, kiss, bang, bang. But nobody really expected Downey to become like a blockbuster action star. But this was Nick Cage was kind of like. I don't know, he was basically like the actor's actor. He was like awards fodder. Everybody thought Nick Cage was going to be the great actor of his generation. And then he turns into this mat-nay idol.

Yeah, it's almost like he was like on the Mark Ruffalo path. Or like those kind of guys where he's just way more likely to pop up in a Charlie Kaufman movie or a Cohn Brothers movie than a Michael Bay movie. Meena, I feel like you liked how this turned out. Yeah. I think you can see Nick Cage becoming an action star in The Rock, the moment when he fires his gun for the first time killing one of the mutinous Marines, he fires it multiple times. It's in the mining cart scene. That's his first kill. And you kind of, you watch his face and you can say it hardening and you can see him transforming it's a brilliant performance in the movie. Of course, he's a little bit shaken by it. But, you know, I would also like, when you look at all the great. action movies of the 90s and before then, of course, but the true class, even Mission Impossible, which came out that same year, right? The original Mission Impossible, which is an inferior movie to

the rock. Mission Impossible, of course, peaked later. But a movie I loved at the time, nevertheless, or I don't know, what other movies came out that year. Independence Day came out that year. All the 90s. 96 was a really good, yeah, in general, just a really good year of stuff. Twister was a big one. but you know like the big ones the fugitive total recall true lies which is one of my personal favorites

like those are all badasses and Nick Cage kind of introduced this new quirky action hero prototype that then I think you saw more of after him including Downey and it was novel at the time for him to do that

and we talked about this before Bill when we were talking about Conair and I think a couple of other movies I can't remember the one we really referenced it with but this just became like a phenomenon on where the action movies realized you could just populate your action movie with really good actors,

and you'd still have the same return. You didn't need Jesse Ventura, Carl Weathers, and Arnold Schwarzenegger in an action movie necessarily. You could do John Spencer, Philip Baker Hall, and Nicholas Cage,

and people would still turn out. Are we sure that Nick Cage's performance worked? That all the times he dialed it up, that that was okay, because there's definitely an S&L character parody happening in this movie as well. But I actually really still liked the Nick Cage performance. You have to remember that this wasn't, he was not a self-parody yet. So when you saw it, you were just like, wow, this guy is so dialed up.

This is so funny. And the character actually, it works for him because he's obviously working these high-stress situations where you might get a plastic baby full of VX gas or sarin, gas or whatever. And he's really quirky. He's a beetle maniac. He does it curse. He's got this relationship with Carla that I'm sure we'll get into. It's like he's a pretty like

unique character in an action movie. But I think you make a really good point which is because it was the first like full cage it hits differently. And then face off I was like this still good. And then I was a national treasure and I was like eh. And then eventually I think it got a I it lost its appeal to me over

time. But this movie, him coming out, the line deliveries, the weird things where all of a sudden he just screams at you. What in the name of Zeus's butthole is the loudest delivery of the word butthole or call me some freaking slack. There's like four of the instances of this. But in any case, like it's interesting and funny in this movie. Later, it gets a little bit weird. Well, I think he put real genuine thought into the... the performance, which probably he stopped doing five years later, but like there's a tidbit in the research. I'll just do it now where he showed Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer

this scene from Jaws where Richard Dreyfus's performance, he showed them a bunch of the Dreyfus scenes. And he's like, this is kind of what I want to do in the bomb dismantling scene. I want to like channel Dreyfus and Jaws. By the early 2000s, I don't feel like he's approaching movies maybe in the same manner. He kind of maybe drifted to what worked for him in 96, 97, 98, and that kind of just became Nick Cage in every movie. But I do feel like this was a performance.

I think he really put some TLC into it and was like, all right, this guy can't necessarily be an action hero. He's got to be this quirky. I got to feel like he's a little nerdy, but I also have to buy that he can go toe to toe with these Marines. So he pulls it off. Yeah, think about how different he is from his character in Conair. You know what I mean?

like Stanley Goodspeed is practically like from a Kenneth Lanergan movie compared to the dude in Conair. Mina, what is Stanley, what is Godspeed? What, what nationality is that? Is that like British, right? You think? Godspeed? Is that a real name?

Does anyone actually Goodspeed? It's Goodspeed. Good speed. Because at the end when Connery asks him if he knows the meaning. Do you know the etymology? He says, of course I do. Well, not the best. Nick Cage.

He's the writing. Got it going. Bay probably peaks here. I still like bad boys. Maybe 1% more than I'm a one guy. Really? I just made it too simple. We're just pretending like Armageddon

isn't on the table here? I guess it is. This is a dress rehearsal for Armageddon. He's like one, he tries out, everything he tries out in this movie, he perfects in the Armageddon. I mean, I love the rock. But Armageddon is definitely like, If you're just talking Bay, that's the one.

I'm putting that third. That's third for me. I do feel like in this movie, he perfected the camera looking up at the guy who things have just blown up and he's in slow motion kind of looking around move, which he does like three different times in this movie. Especially with Cage after the big car chase in San Francisco, he just nails it. There's certain Bay things that he just created from scratch. I'd never seen in a movie.

The Rock is the best for two reasons. The performances of the Corps III, again, we haven't even talked about Ed Harris, who's unbelievable in this movie. And then this is the only... Well, pain and gain, but compared to Armageddon, the Rock is intentionally funny at times.

And you laugh and you're not laughing at Michael Bay. You're laughing with Michael Bay in this movie. Armageddon is not intentionally funny. It's very unfunny. Profoundly. Yeah, and we cover... that one we did the pot on it. Like that has some of the schmaltziest, weirdest.

Yeah, but it also has like Owen Wilson in it and Steve Bichemey. You know what I mean? Like those guys are playing it pretty comic. Bichemian is great. 75 million dollar budget made $334 million. Fourth highest grossing movie of 1996, Ebert, our guy, three and a half stars, said it was a first rate slam bang action thriller with a

lot of style and no little humor. A movie respected enough that it, as me to mention, became a criterion collection pick. It's got to be the way, I'm not as familiar with the, I mean, Sean basically sleeps on them at night. It sleeps on the DVDs. So I don't know. Like, is this, this is an unusual criterion collection pick, correct? It's unusual, but, like, I think also, like, he has a lot of film nerd, like, Kwan, because he's

just such a great. image maker. So even if you think his movies are basically like caveman patriotism, like they are like undeniably amazing to look at. And there was some good research about the studio being unhappy with this movie. And at one point and the story is there's three different versions of it. I don't know which one to believe, but basically Bay is going to see the Disney executives. And Sean Connery is dressed to play golf and he's like, where are you going? And he's like, I'm going to see these things. They're giving me a hard time about the film.

He's like, let me come with you. And he goes with them, shows up in the meeting, and basically diffuses the whole thing by being the coolest guy in the world. And at that point, they lay off bay. It feels a little urban legendy, but it was in enough places that I feel like some version of it might have happened. The point is, I think the studio was like, what the hell is going on with this movie?

Like, they basically added the San Francisco Car Chase thing. That was like a late ad where they're just blocking off San Francisco and blowing stuff up last minute. So I think there was some concern. The account of that, which was, I think, post-team, it was Bay, like, paying tribute to Connery. Also includes Michael Bay saying that Sean Connery told the executives that Michael Bay was doing a great job. I mean, I'm sure it happened. I'm not casting doubt on it, but it does seem a little self-aggrandizing.

I have a potentially divisive take, which is the, The car chase is my least favorite part of the rock. It's not divisive at all. Oh, it's not okay. It makes me want to throw up. Not among these three. I mean, I definitely think that in every Michael Bay movie, there is an entire 25-minute sequence that could just go.

And this is, and even though like the first- You know what it is? Let's be diplomatic and say it's tough for re-watchability because the first five times you see it, you're like, that's cool. The car chase. The 30th time you see the car chase, you're just kind of like, let me just fast forward 10 seconds here, until you get to the guy who's like, they just fucked up your Ferrari, man, and then you get going.

Which is like a direct diehard, not diehard, speed rip-off. Yeah. Kind of like the car chase. I don't know. I know it makes no sense in the movie. It's ridiculous. You don't get dizzy watching it? Because the shots are so tight.

And you have no idea what's going on and where any of the cars are in relation to each other. Here's my case for the car chase. I love San Francisco as a movie locale. I even, as you know, I'm prone to always picking Boston in any scenario, but I actually think San Francisco is the best movie location. Like, it is, anytime it's in a movie, you just feel like you're there. And especially like when you could use the hills and stuff like that. This movie doesn't really use San Francisco that well, except for that one car chase where it's like, oh, cool, we're in San Francisco. Other than that, it's like, it's like three shots of street cars.

one overhead shot of where did the Niners play in 96? Candlestick Park and the missile redirects that's an awesome shot. It's cool but like those are the

three San Francisco shots and the Fairmont Hotel I guess other than that. They made a mistake of they should have had at least two outdoor people strategizing just walking outside through San Francisco

kind of scene. So I want to feel like if San Francisco's in danger like let me feel like I've experienced some San Francisco in the movie. So, but yeah, the car chase, it's clearly added on. He, he's pretty open in the director's commentary being like, we just needed a jolt.

The movie was just too much dialogue, too much, we got to get, you know, too much set up and nothing was happening for like a half hour. And he's like, his instinct is like, my audience is restless, they need something. So that's why we had it. I'll put it this way. My son enjoyed it. Yeah. Well, and this is very Michael Bay, there are a lot of moments in the car chase

where you're like, if I was a 12-year-old boy and I was thinking of things a car could do to objects, like going through a row of parking meters and having them explode with coins coming out or hitting a truck with water bottles on it, everything that it all happens in the car chase. And that is the fun of Michael Bay movies is they are like,

what if a 12-year-old boy just, thought of every cool thing that could happen. Right. Well, he was a 12-year-old boy. Yeah. Old lady crossing the street. I basically was when I watched this movie. They love those crazy car chases.

They love the shot of the old lady or the blind guy or the mom with the stroller. The two seconds of and then back to the car that's careening out of patrol, they're like, oh, God, what's going to happen? The best one ever is in speed when Sandy Bullock hits the baby carriage full of aluminum cans, yeah. Right. We're into the category. It's taking a quick break. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty

limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch. As is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. All right. Most rewatchable scene. I love, let's start here the, when the nuclear weapons stealing scene when bubble face guy gets trapped in the vault. And we get to see his face bubble over and the whole like that just all of it, the execution, the stealing.

I like looking at the rockets with the green super balls inside them. And all of that moves really well, culminating in David Morris, who's really good in this movie, just being like, sorry, dude. My controversial take, Bubbleface deserve to die. Don't drop the rocket. You think that's a hot take? You think you're zagging? You have one job.

Take the rocket out. Bring it. Like, he's screwed up. That's it. Come on, bubbleface. Let me tell you something, Skip. It's a tone set. Coming up next.

Next, we watch. We're seeing Connery's first scene. It's great. 25 minutes in the movie. The setup for it. I know a guy who can do this. Boom. Long hair, prison.

Boom. I mean, it's just, it's one of the coolest entrances of all the time. Chris, have you ever thought about wearing that wig at parties or anything? Connery, pre-haired wig. I wore it to Staples.

other day. Nobody recognized me. I also like what he's saying about this would be good or they're trying to convince Connor dude and he says, why you still have a little lead left in your pencil. You know the rock. Yes, successfully.

Yeah. So why did you do yourself a favor while you're helping us? I mean, it'd be nice to get out of jail while you're still vertical. Why you got a little lead left in your pencil. Yeah, I just never heard that before. It was also just like William Forsy. just being so unnecessarily cutting

towards them. Like, it's never clear of, like, what they're trying to get out of him because they're just, like, so you got him out of prison to, like, insult his, like, sexual abilities or what's going out here? Well, I'll be using that at some point in the next 10 years, the lead and the pencil joke. Next one.

Wow. Connery's getting haircut on the balcony. Orders everybody a whole bunch of food. The Secret Service guys, you're just like, hey, lobster. And just stop watching them for 10 minutes. And it leads to he is able to flip John Spencer over a balcony with a small piece of rope. And then we're on to the car chase. But the balcony scene, that's everything I want in a rewatchable action scene. You can pick it apart. There's nine things wrong with it. It's super fun

to watch. I like seeing him dangle. Connery just getting out of there and all of it. What am I missing anything? No. I think that you're the secret service. guy's being distracted, and one of them's like, well, he's like an old man, sort of, again, it hints that perhaps Connery being underestimated at various points during the movie, sometimes unrealistically so. But that is part of the joy of having a 66-year-old badass be the action heroes. People are going to underestimate him at every turn, and that's the first, well, actually, the quarter is the first time in the interrogation scene when he uses the quarter cut through

the window, which is so fucking cool. But that, I think, hints that the whole movie people are going to underestimate him. I also love that room service is just like this crippling distraction in action movies. Like in lethal weapon, when it shows up, they're like, oh, food. And it's just like, you guys are here to guard a witness or to like guard a prisoner. Like maybe don't get blown away by surf and turf. I'm trying to think of any time where room service didn't turn into some sort of plot twist in an action movie. Nobody's just ever gotten room service to be like, cool, where do I sign?

I'll see you later. Yeah. Bill, are you... In the before times, you can bring the food into my room guy or do you just take it at the door? Oh, that's a great question. Depends how big the room is.

I like to set up myself if I can. Okay. And my room is usually never clean when they come in. So I'm always embarrassed by that. So I'm more of a greed at the door unless things are clean. What about you? personally i i well first of all i'm a huge hotel bar guy sit at the bar eat a cheeseburger i love

yeah i love doing that so i rarely get it in the room i mean if i do if it's breakfast i i hate the when when the guy brings breakfast in and you're like still kind of like waking up and you're like oh yeah just uh those those look delicious just leave them right there you know like i always feel awkward in that moment it's like my most larry david moment yeah meena you're the tiebreaker uh well I don't like having people come out of a hotel room for different reasons. But I also, something that didn't click into my hand until this very moment is whenever you get the Silver Dome, which isn't always a case these days. I always have a little bit of trepidation because of action movies, because the Silver Dome is usually concealing like a gun or something terrible, a head, you know? And, yeah, it's all because of the movies.

I get a lot of room service just because my daughter, when we go away for sports stuff, like, kids love room service. It's just the most appealing thing to them. The fact that somebody is just going to bring them food out of nowhere, they just, I don't know when they grow out of it, maybe 18. But wouldn't you get freaked out, though, if, like, the guy bringing the room service had like a South African accent from lethal weapon too? Wouldn't you just be a little bit more on edge? All right. The balcony quickly. We'll do a pick-and-knit now.

Does the rope pull John Spencer? Does it rip Connery's arm off? What are all the ways that could have gone wrong, in your opinion? I think the rope breaks would be mine. I just don't think it's holding the 180-pound John Spencer. Also, really long rope? I don't know how he pulled that rope out of like a shower curtain. It's like 20 feet long.

He's really inventive. Yeah, I was just going to say this is the problem generally with picking Knits with a Michael Bay movie, it's like criticizing a child's drawing as not being representational of the world. Like, that's not what a human nose looks like. Like, we could do the whole fucking movie.

But you're right. Like, the rope it would break probably with the chair and... But when he's... Just the whole thing, when he's getting his haircut and you realize he's doing it under the rope, the robe, rather, the haircut gap. I mean, it's just also meticulously planned.

And everything Sean Connery does because of the confidence you've already... having him, you just assume it is going to work. Yeah. That's so good. One defense of the car chase. I like any San Francisco

movie where the trolley is now out of control and can't be stopped. Does that happen a lot? I'm just saying anytime. If anybody make it a future action movie, just if something's wrong with the trolley and we're going down like six straight blocks,

I'm in. Hills. I'm in. There's nothing that can go wrong from an excitement standpoint with that. Next one, Connery opens the door when he slides, he somehow remembers the fire patterns of whatever that thing was. And then they think he might have escaped.

And then he opens their, welcome to the rock. Welcome to the rock. So Michael Bayes pointed this out. Is that supposed to be the boiler room of Alcatraz? And he's just like, here's the biggest problem with this movie is that if the boiler would not be working at Alcatraz after this long. Yeah, what would you need a boiler for? Heat and hot water, basically?

I guess if there were, like, you know, national park guys who needed to, like, shower and shave while they were there, or if you maybe were running some of, like, the bathroom stuff off of the boiler, but it is weird that it's like, there's just, like, this dungeon of fire underneath of Alcatraz.

And that Sean Connery could remember the exact sequencing 32 years later, or 34 years later, whatever, he's still got that pattern right in his brain. the shower room shootout I think it breaks the record for most slow motion bullet deaths in a two minute span of people

of people doing the convulsing is that what you do when you get shot you have to like your arms have to go up almost like you're flying like a bird for a second and then you kick back like for people who can't see Bill just did

you just looked like one of those inflatable men outside used car lots he's doing he's doing Willem Defoe from platoon yeah I do feel like that's become every, I'm getting shot death is you have to throw your arms out and then do the fallback over just like falling backwards. I don't know. Maybe it's more. So where are you guys on this scene? Because this is, this is like, I think as good as it gets. And like these two guys being like, I cannot give that order. You will give that order. It's just like it's so fucking like. I'm in as well. And it's always like something starts the gunfire that isn't, you know, it's like a rock that falls. Or something.

So, yeah, it's executed flawlessly. It's, so Michael Bean, who I'm saying is right, name right, who plays the commander, who plays the commander in like 20 movies. That's just he is a commander. He first, you know, gives this whole preamble that everyone does, to remind you that everyone's on at Harris's side, Hummel's side. Like, Hummel's got on the right side of history here, and he's moral, but Me's not cool, which is like something that pervary.

this entire movie. And this is the first real test of Hummel's morals or how crazy is he actually, where does he want, which is a question that hangs over with the entire movie and isn't really answered until the end. And you see how visibly upset he is about the shootout. And that's your first kind of like, oh, he's not actually going to go through with this moment, at least for me, when I watched it. And that's probably the most interesting part of it. I liked it. next one's my favorite i'm a sucker i have i have low ceiling for this stuff i love the mind cart chase it's awesome it's so good it's so cool you feel like you're at like an abandoned disney world ride or something yes i like i like those things where he's just hiding in the cart and it's just becomes

impenetrable to all bullets for some reason this random old metal cart like when they have devices like that But people falling, people hanging. It's just got everything. It's up there with the bathtub as a protector against massive explosions. Which we also see in this. Yeah. Just diving the bathtub, it's fine. The explosion won't hit you.

This scene does a lot. You're so right about the Disney thing. Like you can even, you know how like Disney rides kind of smell a little damp? You know, like the Pirates of the Caribbean. It looks like a part of the Pirates of the Caribbean or something. It's also, by the way, confusing why there's still mine carts below Alcatraz.

What's the purpose of that? Why has that not been fixed? I think we've just stumbled into an incredible idea here that I don't even know if we should publish, which is essentially getting Disney to make Rock World. Oh, yeah. Like, what limit... I can't even imagine how much I would pay for a ticket

to get chased by Marines and ride mine carts and, like, swim with sharks. and then hang out with Ed Harris. I mean, that seems like a great idea. I had this in picking nits, but let's just do it now. Like, why is this world on the bottom of Alcatraz? Why is an Alcatraz just like a burner and, I don't know, some storage? Why do we need this whole Disneyland world underneath a prison that's built on an island?

What purpose did it have? And was this actually under Alcatraz? Was this just filmed separately? Was this really under there? The mine carts, I think they must have done separately. I don't think that there's like a cool mind cart track underneath the Valcat track. I mean, I could be wrong, but it didn't seem like something that they would need. I tried to research it.

It could find it. Next one is just Connor. I wrote down Connery versus Harris. It was just nice to get them in the same scene. Two of the preeminent bald actors we've ever had, although Conner is wearing a tube in this. But it was just fun to see them go head to head. I felt like Robert Duvall should have just made a cameo.

But I like the back and forth with them. then I have mutiny shootout slash rocket man that whole thing um just Tony Todd getting killed by a rocket I'm here for that every time the mutiny shootout so Tarantino there's he might he has uncredited stuff in there just feels like the mutiny shootout was probably Tarantino's one contribution am I wrong with that Chris I just think that at that point post reservoir dogs everybody's like you know what we should have every character points a gun at one another at the same time so I I perhaps Tarantino was like if you guys, you guys should have like basically a mutiny within the mutiny, which is really a great idea. But, um, yeah, like, I think in almost every John Wu movie, every Tony Scott movie, every,

like, it just seemed like all movies from after Reservoir Dogs until about 2001, there was like four guys pointing guns at each other and just, and just being like that. Well, Mina probably doesn't know this story, but when we were, um, coming up with the ringer and we were spending like three, four months together, trying to come up with names. who we should hire, stuff like that. We got really mad at each other once. I pulled the gun on Sean. Chris pulled a gun on me.

And then Juliet and Mallory, and then we all had guns pointed. But we defused it. It was fine. In my mind, that's more like Michael Scott at house. That's right. Rayne Wilson in the office with the showdown. I will say, but the mutiny,

we've talked about the three main characters, and I'm sure we're going to talk about the minors. But throughout the movie, you're trying to sort of gauge who's hardcore. poor Tony Todd, it signals very early on the Candyman. He is not fucking around. But then, like, Boeem Woodbine, who's like a very minor character in this movie,

then obviously goes on to have an awesome career. He's a little bit softer around the edges. And then David Morris, who's the right-hand man, the ultimate betrayal at the end, because he would seem to be his best friend and the guy who's not going to betray Ed Harris and then ultimately does turn on him. Our guy, David Morris. Proof of life. Mutiny shootout is just...

It's great. It's great. You're never going wrong with something leading to a mutiny shootout. If I met Harris, I don't choose this mission to work with new guys. Do you know what I mean? Right. I'd rather go with the established guys. Rather go into it.

Yeah, that's true. He's not putting out a Facebook invite. Who wants to betray the military? Which of my fellow covert ops guy is? are as pissed. Well, everyone's as pissed because everyone's on Ned Harris's side. Last one is the flares, Nick Cage.

Slow-mo from 97 angles. Green smoke. Green smoke. Oh, man. And somehow one guy drops a bomb, but it's cool because it was just on the one part of the island that there's going to be no casualties. Well, the favorite part about rewatching this is so they introduced the flares,

the Chekhov's flares, at the beginning when they're planning the mission. So at the end, you think as a smart viewer, you're like, I remember this thing. But Michael Bay doesn't trust you to remember. So they flash back to the introduction of the, like, literally you have to rehear it. Before Nicholas Cage does it, he remembers that he has the green flares. But the way it's shot, this is the part, I think, in the movie that's the most not, you're in on the, like, unintentionally funny.

The music video style upshot of him with the, it's so funny. this is also like the eighth time in the movie that Nicholas Cage does the Christ pose for like really no reason. You're just kind of like you guys have sort of stripped this of all of me now. Yeah, I had the Christ pose the Christ pose in Apex Mountain

and this movie is not going to win for it, but we can still litigate it. It's always good to have the, there was like a 10-year run of Christ poses. Bay loves a Christ pose. He loves guys falling to their knees and throwing the arms out. I still feel like this was,

Bay's favorite part of the movie. Like, I think he was the most excited to shoot the flares. I think he probably spent the most time planning the coverage for it. The F-16s dropping below the Golden Gate Bridge. Yeah. Tried the slow-mo left and right. All right. What's your favorite scene, Chris?

Oh, I have a couple that you didn't mention. I wanted to just do the decontamination chamber, the first, when we first meet Stanley Goodspeed and action. Oh, the shots. And that guy who's just like, you want me to stick this, in my fucking heart. Are you crazy? Die. Inject your heart and then defuse the bull.

I can't see shit to say you want me to stick this into my heart? Are you fucking nuts? It's coming. It's coming. That's really awesome. And like, weird. That scene actually really sets the, like, this is a little bit of a grittier, like, closer. You know, it's an R action movie.

It's not like a soft action movie at all. And then the other one that I had that, the other rewatchable scene that I thought I would mention would just be, no movie has ever suffered from being in a situation room. And like the whole situation room call where Ed Harris calls and the other general is like, Frank, it's out! Like, you know, and like John Spencer's in there and the White House Chief of Staff is there. And Philip Baker Hall is in there.

Like, just put a situation room in your movie and I will love it. I wanted more Philip Baker Hall type people in that room. thought they were too short. Like two people short. Two people short. Oh, that guy. Oh, that, oh, him. Like, where was Robert Ridgely? Why couldn't he have been somewhere in there

dressed like a colonel? Like, I just felt like they could have done more. I do love when Ed Harris. Hummel from Alcatraz. Oh. Yeah, that's right. We knew. We didn't think it was, you were calling from Magic Kingdom.

Thanks. He has some great directed camera moments, by the way, when he gets after the murder, the shower room scene, when he gets the guy's camera and looks straight at it, and they didn't have to die like this. He's talking straight. Yeah.

Mina, what's your most rewatchable scene? You guys left out, well, my favorite scene is the Cistern scene. Welcome to the Rock. Welcome to the Rock. There I tried. But my second favorite is the morgue scene. So after they get burned out, because this actually has both my favorite killings in this movie

and my favorite quotes. So I don't want to jump ahead. best quotes, but I think my best quotes are kind of deep cuts. They're not the obvious iconic quotes. So Sean Connery Mason throws the knife. You must never hesitate, right? Okay. And it's a very graphic burdener. Then when the air conditioner, when he shoots down the air conditioner and Nick Cage goes, well, that's just about the most awful thing I've ever seen. I laugh so hard. And he delivers it so perfectly. Oh, yeah.

Okay, that's just about the most awful thing I've ever seen. While he's trying to disarm the rockets, when he gets distracted by the feet and asks Sean Connery to make it stop, again, so funny. And then you get one of the, you know, the freaking slack right then. But just everything about that scene and those two characters just cracks me. Yeah, that's really good. Is this normal?

The feet are still kicking. What do you want me to do about it? I just love it. You've been around a lot of corpses. Is that normal? The feet thing? Yeah, the feet thing. Yeah, that happens.

I'm having kind of a hard time concentrating. Can you do something about it? Like what? Kill him again? Listen, I'm just a biochemist. Chris, what do you have for most rewatchable? The shower assault, the seals versus the liens of the shower. Yeah.

I really like the mind car chase. What's age the best? Alcatraz. Trying to think of a situation where Alcatraz has been in a movie and it hasn't been fucking cool. Like you can just name the movie that's used it.

It's worked every time. I personally like San Francisco car chases. That's age the best for me. You guys don't agree. What about losers always whine about their best winners go home and fuck the prom queen? Just as...

So weird. Oh, just fucking random. It always makes me laugh. I just can't believe somebody put that in a movie And it is a way to be like This will make this guy sound like a badass And then Connery pulls it off We were like, oh yeah

Another good point by Shaw Connery Losers always whine about their best Winners go home and fuck the prom queen Carla was the prom queen Yeah Do they even have prom queens in Scotland? I don't even know where it comes from It's so weird.

How does he know about the prom quaint? Because he's imprisoned in the 60s. Again, that's one where I thought that was the coolest thing I'd ever heard when I was 13. And now I'm like, this is not the coolest thing that said in this movie. But at the time, I thought it was incredibly bad ass. It's so, it's so 90s. Yeah, trying to have these like cool action movie quotes. And it's just bizarre.

What's age the best? The Simpson-Bruckheimer logo card. RIP to our guy, Don, on this movie. This is it. This is his last one, but it was just seeing it. You're like, oh, this will be good. I read a, I read a EW article right when Simpson died from 96. And there's like quotes from them making this movie. And I think Conry is like, you know, Don was visiting the set.

And I'm not surprised. He did not look right. I'm not laughing, but Don Simpson had a, like, really, a legendary appetite for cocaine. So I'm just saying like, if Conry is like, this guy needs a break. Jesus.

The Don Simpson, he was not really meant to make it to the 21st century by all accounts. There's a lot of literature about this. What was the book that was written about that era? There's one book that has a lot of Don Simpson stuff. And he was a wild card. I love,

this is another what's age the best in action movies when guys don't exist oh yeah they've been wiped away like wiped clean person's been wiped off there's no record of this person

wait what person is he he doesn't exist doesn't exist is just a winner every time Nick Cage hanging it up we mentioned earlier what do you say

we cut the chit chat a hole all that stuff really impressive list of that guys who graduated that guys these aren't that guys these are guys that were that guys and became David Morris,

John C. McGinley, Philip Baker Hall, John Spencer, William Forsyth, Michael Bean. Mina, first of all, when you didn't know how to say Michael Bean's name, I just want you know you hurt Chris's feelings. No, I was, she nailed it the first time. Now, Chris has been a charter member of the Bean Hive, really, since for how long? The Bean Hive. The Bean Pond? You're driving the Bean Bayway.

He's careful with this one. Is that guy ever not played a military man? I don't want to diminish his career, but... The abyss. Like, yeah. No, he's in the military in a bit. He's in the military man in the abyss. He's just underwater, yeah.

I mean, he's a military guy in Terminator, too. I mean, like, yeah. Yeah, beans incredible. Yeah, we never saw him in like a Michelle Pfeiffer rom-com. No. But he's just like an ad exec. Right. There's such a talk.

On the Wikipedia page of the Rock, there's just a photo of him. him signing DVDs of the Rock at like a 2002 fan convention. It's just, I want better for my guy, my heirloom bean. Another one's age the best. Just Claire Forlani, just the what-if of her career, the three years when it seemed like it was going to happen,

it just made me nostalgic. It all ended with Me, Joe Black, where it just fell apart completely. But coming out of Mallrats, I was like, I'm buying stock in this one. So I guess my stock is aged the worst, but my hope that she was going to turn into something has aged the best because I was watching this thinking it still could happen.

It's like, ah, she's probably 45 now. What were you going to say, I was just going to say, so what's age the best is your belief in Claire Forlani. Yeah, that I was still resolute like it's going to happen, even though it hasn't happened. I'm like, I don't know, you watch the scene again. She's never happened for her.

Mito Black was tough. It hurt a lot of careers. Not Brad Pitt's. it's a tough performance. It's a brief performance, but it's not the best. I also think it is funny. This is kind of a picking nits that I love your point about,

like, guys who don't exist. And yet, Nick Cage's friend was able to find Jade Angelou in like 30 seconds and her address. So his record wasn't wiped that clean, but that scene is not the greatest scene. Although it does set up Nick Cage being sympathetic to Mason when he, Goodspeed says,

oh, your dad's working with us, and that kind of establishes trust, so it's important. I have one more, what's age is the best. This is the best thing I found. It's too good for half-ass internet research. Sean Connery insisted the producers

built a cabin for him on Alcatraz because he didn't want to travel back and forth to the mainland every day. So he's like, I'm not doing this movie. You will give me a cabin. And I'm going to live in it. and it's going to be state of the art, and that's how we're going to do this.

And they were like, cool, Sean Connery, we've built you a cabin. And that's a thing that happened. I'm trying to think any other actor who would have even thought of that, much less convinced the studio to do it. I mean, we talked about on T2, some of Arnold's needs for, like, the private plane.

You know what I mean? Like, and it's just unbelievable stuff. Like, they really had, like, so much leverage back then. It's also kind of awesome. You know, it's not like that must have been the most comfortable place in the world to stay. Yeah. But why, I mean, they could have just helicopter back and forth.

It would have been like, what, five minutes? I'm not doing a helicopter. What a king. Any other what's aged the best for you guys? I have one. The politics of the film have aged well, which is unusual, again, for a Michael Bay film because most of his films are rah-rah, jingoistic, embarrassing, kind of, not embarrassing as a wrong word, but like, you know, they're very cliche.

And this is a film that has a very, I can't believe me using the word nuance in Michael Bay in the same sentence, but a very nuanced attitude towards government and patriotism. I mean, you mentioned the conversation between Hummel and Mason, Ed Harris, and Sean Connery's character, where Ed Harris tries to make the case for patriotism and, you know, patriots being viewed a different way at the time versus historically. or in the future. And Connery just tells him he's a fucking idiot. And then quotes Oscar Wilde about patriotism being, you know, dumb.

Yeah. Do you have the quote? It's interesting. It's like actually compelling discussion. And I think the questions raised by this film are actually interesting, which again, not a Michael Bay Hallmark. Yeah. And it's also like when they get to that end point where he's like, I bluffed.

It's kind of awesome because you're just like, yeah like the entire movie is itself you're kind of it's all resting on this fear that he actually would do this so when he redirects the missile it's one thing but when he gets to the point and tony todd and and the other guy are just like you you know where's the million dollars like we need to launch these rockets and those guys are complete psychos and he's just like i'm not i'm not going to kill a million people for this like we bluffed they called it the mission's over yeah at the same time not a strong not a strong strategy Phil, always the negotiator.

Oh, shit. I guess, I guess, I guess, uh, I guess this mission's over. Like that was played B. I guess we're done here. That's all she wrote. He told it pretty well. I mean, they had no problem killing the, the Navy guys at the beginning, just wiping them out to get the weapons. So, yeah, seriously. It's like, uh. Um, but, yeah, it is interesting. The whole movie you're trying to figure out, I think, if Ed Harris is going to do it. I think that's a really good point, though. Yeah. Like, it's like, it's like, it. It is a pretty, like, there's a lot of layers to, like, how they, they set up the characters that way. What's age the worst? The movie is too long.

I'm telling you, if that car chase is, like, three minutes long, or just, like, a foot chase down the street, they would have saved so much money and so much time. It's two hours and 15 minutes, I think, which just seems a little fat. The, uh, just this line about, am I out of style? He's got the long wig, and he's like, unless you're a 20-year-old grunge guitarist from Seattle, has just age the worst. It's just, that is a specific 1996 line that... It's a grunge thing. It's gone. It's hard. We mentioned we bluff. They called

it the mission's over. The fact that the Rock then became one of the most famous celebrities we have as a wrestler slash actor, it's kind of overshadowed. The Rock, the movie? Yeah, you have to actually type in the Rock 1996 movie to get the Rock in your first bunch of results. The Rock like overpowers it

from Google standpoint. And then Anthony Clark as the super gay hairstylist, I feel like they wouldn't be running that back. Rob's not. And that was third in the air where it's like, hey, no, no, should I tone it down? No, no, make them more effeminate. I'm not sure that's flying these days. Anything else? You got the car chase.

The first third of the movie has a lot of fat, I think. Two-thirds, so Craig watched it for the, not to blow you up, Craig, but Craig watched it for the first time this week. and I texted you guys and said, this movie still goes so hard. I think Craig was only a third of the way through and he was a little dubious because the first third is not as good

as the second two-thirds of the movie at all. I also think Carla, I have mixed feelings. Like, it's not a great character. There's no reason. I had that in Pickin' Nets. We should do that now. Yeah, the Nets. Why is she there?

At the end, she should. My fiancee, you could just get rid of completely. How about when she's in the situation room at the end, basically with John Spencer. He's only like the six most important people in the American government outside of the president. And they're like also, Carla. Here's our strategy, Carla. We're going underwater approach. She's like, he doesn't swim.

Like, why are you telling her this? She shouldn't know any of this. Well, this feels like it goes back to the notes thing. It feels like they were like, hey, we've got Vanessa Mercell and Claire Forlani attached. And let's just, can you squeeze them in just because they didn't want a movie. of all dudes. So they're shoehorning it in and they're doing it badly.

All right, we're going to take a break, then we'll come back with the rest. Casting what ifs. Schwarzenegger was offered the part of John Patrick Mason. Oh. In a Reddit M.A. AMA, he stated he regrets not taking the role.

Schwarzenegger did an AMA? Apparently. Did a Reddit AMA. I'm so glad he didn't take the role. He said the script wasn't fully big. Thank God that didn't happen. Then Tony Scott was supposed the direct but turned it down and did the fan.

This is a really good Tony Scott movie. I think it's better with Tony Scott, right? Tony Scott makes the version of this movie that we are asking for and that I think it's probably a little tighter. But it doesn't have that layer of like slightly over the top, slightly, very over the top, like, you know, the crucifix, the American flag burning in the background of the guy when he's just like, we're about to take the lives of 81 hostages, you know, like, all that stuff probably isn't it?

Yeah, we might not get the air conditioner falling on the dude's head. And honestly, do we want to give that up? I don't. Best that guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. I mean, there's, I would say the guy who's basically the last guy standing at the end with the strong pronounced chin. I don't even know what that guy's name is. I just, anytime I've seen him and anything else, I've been like, oh, that guy from

Gregory, spoiler. I think is, uh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's, yeah, he has a chance to rule. run the that guy and the Dionne Waiters and the Vincent Hanna Award. Yeah. So I think he wins. I just want to mention the nanny from Jerry McGuire is in this movie. Mm-hmm.

That guy. The campus rapist from 90210. Hmm. Which. You're 902102.0 fan? The sophomore year in college. There was a campus rapist for three episodes. He's in this now is a good guy.

And then Costner's brother and American Flyers. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those guys. I don't know what that guy's name is either. I want to shout out Stanley Anderson, who plays the president in both the Rock and Armageddon, which suggests a Michael Bay universe where this guy is the president. Or you think that he's trying to establish that? During both a hostage situation on Alcatraz and a world-destroying comet or asteroid coming towards the Earth.

Yeah. So many of these guys are in so many of the same action movies from the 90s. like Danny Nucci who plays the Marine, who then has that death where he's falling. He's upside down after the shootout. He's the last guy through the hole in the shower room, and then he is hanging upside down and Connery takes his gun. He's in, I feel like, like, Bacockdown, maybe. He's in Crimson Tide, right?

Crimson Tide. I mean, yeah, a lot of... It's amazing the kid from the Bronx Tale wasn't in this. I don't know. He must have been busy that week, but he should have been in... The Vincent Hanna, Give Me All You Got a Word for Overacting. It's, I mean, we could mention eight people, but it's Tony Todd and it's Greg in the finals. And I think Tony Todd is ridiculous in this movie.

He's a borderline. What's age the worst for me? I don't, I just wonder if there's a better guy in that part. Is this just a better movie? No, I think he does a good job in so much as like he's the like the true reveal of the kind of guy that Ed Harris has to hire to do this job to me in his point. Like, it's like he's not going to have his pick of people. And these two dudes who were just, like, at first sort of adhering to military discipline, but then, like, midway through spore letters, like, lying on the bed.

And he's like, we're locked and ready to rock, sir. Just want to let you know what time it is. And, like, Tony Todd's just like, where's the money? I kind of enjoy that those guys turned into shit lords. Yeah. Is it we're locked or I feel like the word cock is in his call? That's also. Sorry, I don't know.

Yeah. I feel like they said the stage for Tony Todd is a psycho and wants to kill people really early in this film. Did Candyman come out before or after The Rock? Before, okay. So, you know, he's a candyman. A lot of Candyman baggage, yeah. The Jed Nelson Award for the person who seems like they're in a different movie.

You want to take this one, Chris? So I think you could make an argument that there are three movies. there's the movie that like John Spencer Michael B and Ed Harris David Morris all those guys are in a military government thriller then there's the movie that Sean Connery's in and then there's the movie Nicholas Cage is in

and that like so I it depends on which way you want to look at it but if we are going by the Judd Nelson thing I think you could probably you have to say that Ed Harris is in a completely different movie as everybody else because he's taking it so so seriously yeah he's he's approaching this

like it's an Oliver Stone sequel to platoon type of thing he's not there's no like Alan Rickman John Lithgow like little gleam in his eye like I'm going to have fun with this part he's like this is a very serious issue

about patriotism and what the men who are left behind and he's just there is not a glimmer of parody anything from him he plays this completely straight and I'm not positive that was the right choice, but he's definitely memorable in it. I know, I know Mina loves him in this movie.

Yeah, I feel like, wow, I'm the only person. I kept saying, like, the core three and you guys were kind of looking away when I would say, you know, saying that. No, I like Ed Harris in this movie. He's just in a different one. All right. He's just in a, I think he just takes it so, I mean, he's forced to, but it's not even like Gene Hackman and Crimson Tide where it's like he gets a couple of funny lines or has

like a couple of personality quirks. He's not quirky at all. He's just like. But that's the. like the whole there if he was like an obvious villain who wanted to do the villain thing

this would be a totally different movie yeah like so much of the movie is about the bluff and Sean Connery correctly reads the buff because yeah he was like I saw it in his eyes yeah he's I saw in his eyes he's a soldier he's not a madman

I'm down with the core three but I feel like it's more Westbrook Beale and Bertons kind of level I feel like Chris Bosch I want to take that back edited it how what a terrible I know. He didn't need to catch a stray. But I think Ed Harris is amazing in this movie. I think he's so good. Deanne Waiters Award for Biggest Heat Check. This is tough because everyone's on a heat check in this.

And the one who's trying to win this award is Anthony Clark, but it goes badly. So for the first time in Rewatchable's history, I'd like to nominate an inanimate object for Deon Waiters. Okay. VX gas. Yeah. Just very small screen time. looks great. And then when it finally gets stuffed in that guy's mouth, you're like, this is about as bad

as I could have imagined it would have been. Truly a literal heat check in that moment. That's good. I like that. First inanimate object, ever it would.

Yeah, it's unfortunately most of the people that would normally, most of the candidates for this award, either it's like, you know, it's like the Claire four line

like that part's bad, the hairdresser part, that's rough. Hey, you're going down the line and it's really like Connery's Connor is doing the Deanne Waiters Award. He's just in the movie too much. I think I would make cast a vote for William Forsyth,

who plays the assistant to the FBI director. I don't remember what his exact title is. His name is. He's like, the special ops guy or whatever. Or like West Coast Field Office or something? Something like that. Because you're kind of trying to figure out what his deal is the whole movie because early on in the interrogation, he's kind of an asshole,

but then he's nice to Nicholas Cage when Nicholas Cage puke, straight improvisation, by the way, by Cage. And then as the movie goes on, you realize he's sympathetic to the point where at the end, you can tell he knows Basin's still alive when Cage says he's vaporized and he lets it slide.

William Forsyth, who was in Raising Arizona with Cage, you know, so they've got the history together. I think he's quietly very good in this movie. All right. If we want to give it to a person, we can give it to him. Recasting Couch. Other than Tony Todd,

and I can't come up with a better person for that part that's era-specific. So I was thinking like Carl Weathers would have been amazing but I think he's too old. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's whoever the mid-90s Carl Weathers was. Ving Rames probably overqualified, but that's right in the Ving Rames when he's just ripping off awesome movies and I think he could have been in there.

But my recasting couch, so we have the Alcatraz guide, right? Uh-huh. And so I married an axe murderer, Phil Hartman plays the Alcatraz guide. And it's like one of the five funniest minutes in any 90s comedy where it's like, this is where Al Capone kept what we call in prison parliance's bitch.

And he's just doing crazy Phil Hartman, S&L. I would have just brought Phil Hartman back and had him be the Alcatraz. I just want to run that character back. I love that character. Any suggestions for you guys? I thought Delroy Lindo maybe. Was he doing these kinds of? Oh, that's a good one.

He was in one of those 90s action movies. I can't remember. That's a good one. I like that one. I love Nicholas Cage's movie for all the reasons we've outlined. But I also think John Cusack, who was, of course, in Conair, could have done interesting things with the role. Just throwing that out there.

I think that there's a couple of mid-90s guys that I could have handled having in here. You know, there's a, we haven't talked about Danny Treo in a long time on this podcast, but I feel like Treo could have been a good mercenary. So I would throw him in there. Our guy Josh Hamilton? Josh Hamilton could have been a good like... He would have been good for the White House Chief of Staff. Good call.

Have Fastenerate Research. There's so many writers on this script that they actually became a writer's guild arbitration to try to figure out who wrote it. They have no idea. It was reworked by just a shitload of people. Aaron Sorkin You can tell Was involved

Quentin Tarantino Exact moments by the way When Aaron Sorkin Bunched it up probably Quentin Tarantino was involved We had David Weisberg Douglas Cook did the story Mark Rosner was the one

Who was granted Guild arbitration Michael Bay says Jonathan Hensley should have been involved Their Connery at one point Got two British screenwriters To punch up his stuff And they fucked it up They had to fire those guys

So by my count, there's nine writers that were somehow involved in this. Nicholas Cage had the idea that his character would never swear in the movie. Which is why he said stuff like, gee whiz. He sounded like he really put some thought in this one. Some of the Navy Seals were played by real Navy Seals. Our guy, Don Simpson, was responsible for creating the General Hummel character because he saw this 60 Minutes piece about the U.S. government's refused to acknowledge soldiers who had died during covert overseas missions.

And kind of just it evolved from there. Bay said the car chase was inserted after early screenings revealed a big flat hole. And he wanted to appease younger filmgoers. So there you go for that. Check's out. Do you want to know why Nicholas Cage is naked playing the guitar in the movie, you know? Because I know you've wondered like, wow, this is, weird. Why do they do this? Well, here's why. It's confusing.

Bay said he knew Cage wanted to show off his body, so they decided to get it out way up front. Cage disagreed, said he wanted to establish how comfortable his character was at his house. There's so many ways to do that. We don't have an explanation, really. The big takeaway is how hairy Nicholas Cage is. It's not even like, whoa, what a bang and bod that guy has? It's more like, man, that guy is fucking hairy.

Sean Connery's contract says, my coverage is filmed first. Nicholas Cage was fine with that. So when they film movies, they film the close-ups, they film them first, and then you flip it, and then Sean Conner's like,

I'm out, I'm going back to my cabin. My cabin on Alcatraz. So it wasn't even like he had to catch a helicopter I backed up to San Francisco to go see a Giants game. It's just that he didn't want to be there. They filmed the balcony scene on location at the Fairmont,

and when the person was, dangling from the balcony. Multiple people in the Fairmont called and was like, what the fuck's going on? There's a person dangling from the balcony. And then Bay's idea for a sequel, oh, Chris is nodding. He's already thought this out. You have Good Speed now has the microfilm evidence, which he found at the end that has all this different stuff.

And he has nowhere to turn to with it because now people want it. And he's now it's a role reversal. So he turns to Mason to help him out and we're off. Never got made. This is essentially national treasure. It did get made. Like if they had just made this, they could have had like the National Treasure franchise

if they had just made this movie. There's some James Bond stuff that I hesitate to go into where there was this whole internet theory that Sean Connery's character was actually James Bond. Because he references being Secret Service and being trained by the other. So there's a whole bunch. But then at one point, they ask if he was, I think, Navy, and he said, Army.

He said Army. And the theory is if it had been James Bond, they would have gotten the military service piece correctly, and then that could have been a super wink-wink. So they actually blew that one. Apex Mountain. Nicholas Cage, I mean, you could argue, yes. He's coming off the Oscar. He's got a 330 million fourth biggest movie in 1996 that he's the lead.

I don't know if he has more juice in his career. than he does right here. It's definitely this. Yeah. Connery, no. Late career, Sean Connery. Still no. Because it's a crusade?

I think it's crusade. Nuclear rockets in a movie? They're not nuclear. They're nerve gas. Are nerve gas rockets? Nerve gas rockets. Speak moment for nerve gas. Nerve gas in general.

Everyone was really afraid of, yeah. To the point, I'm sure you guys have read that this movie was then, like, became a source of misinformation, or was ripped off by a source for the British intelligence ahead of the invasion of Iraq, right? I, which blows my mind. But I was very, in the same way that I was afraid of room service, this movie definitely may be afraid of nerve gas.

I'm still afraid of nerve gas. I'm afraid, too. Ed Harris, no. It's bad. Ed Harris, no. Alcatraz movies. That was the big one I couldn't. I mean, do you think it's better than Escape from Alcatraz?

Yes. I think it's better. Escape from Alcatraz is slow, but was a weirdly important movie because they filmed the whole movie during when they were having tourists and all that stuff. And ironically, was in San Francisco with my dad and they were filming Escape from Alcatraz when we did the Alcatraz tour in 1980. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. How about that story? Naked guitar playing at absolutely Apex Mountain. How about mutiny, movie mutinies?

Well, I mean, I think Crimson Tide. Right? Yeah. This and mutiny on the bounty. Yeah. Yeah. This might be the Mount Rushmore. Vanessa Marseille parlayed this in a 902 and O. But at kind of a different stage than a two and O. Started dating Brian Austin Green.

I still feel like the rock's probably the peak for her. She was the lead female in an action movie. I'm giving it to her. How about Christ poses? Platoon? I'm going last temptation to Christ. Probably. And then platoon.

Yeah. Needles in the heart? Pulp Fiction. Yes. Pulpiction still takes that. Any other apexes? I think this is the best action movie of 96, which, again, as we, again, as we discussed in the beginning was a big, big year for Independence Day, Twister, Mission

Impossible, all made more money than The Rock. I think Eraser came out that year, too. I think The Rock is better than those movies, personally. I agree. Michael Bay movies, we would say Armageddon, right? That was when he was, I mean, that was the biggest movie of 1998. Oh, like, earnings-wise. Yeah.

You think creatively this was the apex, Mina. A hundred percent. You don't think so? This is so much better. I love big, dumb movies, if that's not clear. And I don't think any Michael Bay movies are good other than this one. Bad Boys 2 is okay. The original Transformers is okay.

But this is the only movie that rises to excellent. This is a controversial take for me because I really do. I mean, I even like, like, I like even some of the more recent stuff. So, yeah, I like a lot of Michael Bay movies. I don't like the Transformers movies. I think those have become, like, a real, like, anvil on his whole career. Like, it's really wading it down.

Mina, is this the longest you've talked on a Zoom without somebody bringing up Aaron Rogers? This is over an hour. Like, in the last three months? Last two months. Should we just talk about Aaron Rogers? Where do you think Aaron Rogers is going? I was thinking about Aaron Rogers because, you know, I mentioned the Mission Impossible movies

getting better later. I feel like they've had an Aaron Rogers' like career resurgence with, you know, Ghost Protocol, Rogue Nation. I mean, those movies fall out. The original Mission Impossible is just a B for me. I mean, it has the iconic cruise to the floor moment, but the film does not hold up. It's got the great twist in the beginning.

You don't like that one? It's fine. I think they just did better as the franchise. I mean, the last one was the best one. Again, the last three of all mid-bangers. But just was thinking about 96 and it's okay. The Rock is better. I have some nits to pick.

So do I. So Connery hasn't driven a car for 35 years, just hops into a Hummer. He's just flying, zooming that thing around San Francisco. If I don't drive a car for 35 years, I hope I'm half as good when I'm running for my life. Also, he just knows the streets of San Francisco like that. He knows it's a Hummer, too. It's an apex year for Hummers, by the way. Apex Hummers, that was another thing.

I really vividly remember being afraid of nerve gas and thinking Hummers were cool. fuck. Damn, I want a Hummer. It looks so dumb. Like, why as a society did we all love Hummers so much? I think when LeBron got the...

When LeBron got the Hummer in high school, it felt like that killed the Hummer momentum. There was like a Hummer backlash from that. But could we get like a Hummer Renaissance the way, like, if we have like the F-150 that's electric? Like, if there's an electric Hummer, do you think people will start getting like enormous cars? Yeah.

Yeah. It's coming back. First of all, the Aaron Rogers thing, I feel like, you can't resist digging at LeBron. And somehow it went all the way with the Hummer. Those are facts. He got the Hummer and it set up this Hummer backlash. It was bizarre.

It's a thick Jeep. But the Tesla weirdo truck kind of got me thinking about Hummers. Oh, yeah. You know, the weird electric truck that Musk came out with that everyone made fun of. Anyways. Another picket. Did the hostages ever eat or go to the bathroom? Thank you.

Thank you. They were there for what? Three days? I assume that the soldiers brought rations for them and that they just didn't show it. But that's like the first thing that happens in Diehardt is everybody's like, we have to go to the bathroom. And they have to account for that. Did they use like the creepy Alcatraz toilet? There's just 10 to a cell.

And it's like, hey, can you guys turn the other way? I have to pee. I don't know. They just don't even address it. It's one of those things where maybe they had a scene and they were just like cut this. It doesn't make sense. But yeah, what happened? We mentioned none of the Secret Service agents monitoring Connery's balcony haircut.

We mentioned the boilers working on the rock, which even Michael Bay admitted was ridiculous. I still don't believe Connery would remember everything about the Rock's basement 30-plus years later. Like, I can't remember things now that happened 30 years ago, that intimate moments of my life. And then this one, so Cage, you know, for dramatic effect, they give him the one great, green egg. I get that it's a device, right? We need a little bit extra for our fight scene here. But if you really watch this movie carefully, which obviously it's 25 years old and all of us have seen it too many times, there's no reason for him to take the egg. There's really no reason at all. It's completely terrifying and dangerous to have a fight scene with an egg in your chest

pocket. He lands on the egg at one point. It stays perfect. And then, to just shove something in somebody's mouth. Like, with them, all they have to do is close their mouth and just all of it is, is just beyond a nitpick, but somehow they pull it off and I enjoy it. This actually goes right into what my major nitpick is, and it has to do with the green egg scene, absolutely, is the Nicholas Cage's atropine resistance. Because, like, throughout the movie, and the first scene when they decontaminate that room, and then, like, later on the chopper, when they offer him the atropine shot, and he's just like,

No way. So I was like, what's up with atropine? Like, is it like really dangerous in it of itself? So I looked up like the side effects to atropine. Here they are. Okay. Visual sensitivity to light, blurred vision, dry eye, dry mouth, constipation, decreased sweating reactions, intense abdominal pain and a delay when you start to urinate. Those are the side effects of taking atropine. We already know, no, this is just like what happens when you take the shot. But we know what happens when you get hit with VX gas and you break your own spine and your skin melts off. So why is he like, I don't want to take the atropine? I would take like five atropine shots before I even went.

I would just be like, I'm immune to VX gas. In the first scene, he doesn't want to blow. He wants to pull off the detonation. But yeah, but yeah, you're at the end, it's bananas. Could this be, oh, you have any of their nipicks? I have several minutes to pick. Oh, go. All right.

or a couple. $83 million? Not that much. The government should just hand it over. Right. Instead of bombing San Francisco into putting San Francisco at risk. Even the thermite plasma plan,

they're not sure if it's going to work, right? Just $83 million. It's not that bad. Yeah, that's like what Barry Bond signed for in 1996. Like, they would have been fine. Even accounting for inflation. Okay. Like I said earlier, I feel like it is,

I don't say unethical, but illogical to try to find holes in Michael Bay films. That said, if you have a prisoner, the one man who can stop your mission, who you have just found out was a officer who was called into this mission because of his intricate knowledge of where you are and you have multiple military men at your disposal,

maybe don't lock him and leave him by himself. in a jail cell. Just put up one guy to watch him. Just one guy. You have 30 guys. I know. And at the end, they keep running across stray Marines that have just been in different parts of Alcatraz.

And none of those guys could have watched over them. I also like Connery maybe show him missing five times with throwing the rope to pull the door. Like just, I don't think you're going two for two on those. And especially like the two doors. you need. This guy's like, I mean, if there was an Olympic event for that, he wins with throwing a rope with a thing attached and whipping it.

Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? I thought about this for longer than I expected. Tell us. Meas. I think Mina's in. The look on your face tells me you're in. Well, the premise of it, like I said, you know, you said at the very big, beginning is just unimpeachable. I don't know if you could find the caliber of actors that carry

this film, the core three. Probably not. You know. But you would get to, yeah, I think you get to answer certain questions. Like, how did the people in the jail cells go to the bathroom? Like, what did people eat? It's way more hostage stuff and it's way more mutiny kind of politics stuff. Yeah. Ooh, yeah, focus more on that. Yeah. One of my ideas for this is, David E. Kelly's The Rock, where it's all geared around the women and the wives and the girlfriends and people drinking wine wondering what's happening on the rock. So they're just watching from Montecito or whatever? Yeah, they're Montecito hoping it works out with the rock. That could work. Probably in answerable questions. We mentioned the James Bond thing. So if he was James Bond,

then somebody did the math, he would have had to have been 83 years old. in the movie, which is too old. And then the Army, James Bond, was in the British Navy. So that's been debunked. But there's still James Bond, the rock hive on the internet that you can go dive into if you want to. Any other in answerable questions for you guys? Why was Sean Connery's first stop after escaping a Led Zeppelin concert where he impregnated the mother of Jade Angelo? Yeah.

And Jade Angelo is the name of his daughter? Why? This must have been a pretty big Led Zeppelin concert, I'm guessing. This is more of picking Nits, but Nick Cage is like a scientist. Why does he have the sickest apartment I've ever seen in D.C.? I know. How can he afford that, like, friends level loft? It's pretty nice.

It's more than a question, yeah. My other, I guess my other in-answerable question would just be if I jam this, what's that thing called that you, that's, saves your life with nerve gas? Atropine. Is that a 100% success rate or 80? Like, where are we on that? Well, I think also, like, I'm, I was just trying to be worried about missing my heart.

Like, that's not something that I got a lot of experience, stabbing myself in the heart. So, yeah, we haven't seen a movie scene where somebody does that and they miss or there's some side effect or... Yeah. That's a totally reasonable concern. The Chargers literally did that to their quarterback. The doctor did. So a civilian like being able to do that

Well, they chargers hit the heart No, they hit the lung They punctured his lung, yeah Okay, so it wasn't meant for the heart What piece of memorabilia Would you want from this movie? I mean, the microfilm that tells me How Kennedy really died.

That's the right answer. I was going to say the Hummer, the game used Hummer would be pretty good too The 1996 Hummer used in the Rock Because that had to have been like the first year they had Hummers. I don't feel like Hummers even existed in the early 90s. So it was somewhere. It feels like product placement, but I don't think product placement was like a thing at the time.

I think it was. Oh, was it? Yeah. No, I think product placement absolutely was the thing. Yeah. I think the underwater vehicles that they used to approach are really cool. Oh, those were cool. We should put that in what stage the best.

Can you buy those? Still extremely cool. And what happened? They just left them there. those things were probably like 200k each. Just pay the, pay the beauty guys. We're going to do that. Who won the movie?

I think we all know. Connery. Claire for Lonnie. No, it's Sean Connery. How would Sean Connery have gotten out of the Green Bay Packer situation if he was Aaron Rogers, Mina? Let's close on that. No close.

How would he have gotten out of it? What would he have done? Wait, Mina had so many quotes, though. Oh, we didn't do. Oh, let's end on the quotes. Give us a couple quotes. Oh, man, I got the whole. So, like I said, my favorite, I feel like the real rockheads love the lines in the morgue scene about the, you know, the feed and the, that's the most awful thing I've ever seen.

I like it when I like all of Cage's more subtle line readings, like when he says FBI, freeze, sucker. Yeah. Or when he introduces himself as Stanley Goodspeed, I work with the Federal Bureau. I love that part. The Rocket Man quote is probably the stupidest, but it still makes me laugh. So I would put that in there, too. I like it when Sean Connery says,

I'm too old for this. That makes me laugh. Yeah, that felt like almost an acknowledgement of other action movies, right? He's just like going full Danny Glover. How about inject that in your suit before your heart melts? All right, the Rock. So not available on any streaming thing.

You can rent it. Four bucks. I don't know why. I'm surprised it's not on Disney Plus because it's Touchstone, right? Yeah, that's weird. Connery must have done some deal where after five years he got 100% of the profits or some sort of Sean Connery thing. And he gets to keep the cabin on the rock. Well, there you go.

Meena Khym's Chris Ryan, a pleasure, as always. We'll be back next week on the rewatchables. Now we are two weeks away from another massive movie. We did Goodfellas last week, and another one of the eight or nine biggest movies we've ever done is coming in two weeks. So I don't want to spoil it yet, but that's coming as well. Meena, Chris, thank you.