The Rewatchables - ‘The Running Man’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt don’t want to be the only assholes in heaven after rewatching the 1987 action sci-fi film ‘The Running Man,’ starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, Richard Dawson, and María Conchita Alonso. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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These health insights are developed with clinical experts from start to finish. Find out more at Apple.com. health. Apple Watch is not a medical device and should not be used as a substitute for professional medical advice. The rewatchables is brought to by the Ringer podcast network where you can also find videos and clips from this podcast on YouTube.com slash Bill Simmons. You can't find Kyle Brandt on a TV channel right now, but maybe down the road. You're on vacation right now. I'm on vacation right now. I'm glad that you didn't invite Shrager and I to rock bottom month. to tip the hat to good morning football,

but I would have appreciated it, Bill. We would have been there for you, buddy. We thought about it. Maybe we'll see you only in a rerun. The Running Man is next. All right, Kyle Brandt, I texted you, and I sent you a list of movies, and I said, let's go.

Let's get you back on the wagon, man. Let's go. Let's do some podcasting. Let's do an action movie. Let's pick something from the 80s or the 90s. And you've been circling the Running Man for a long, long time.

This is a ridiculous movie. I can't wait to get Craig's take at the end of the pot about it. What do you love about this movie? I'm so happy to do what we're doing it, Bill. We did it. I got to tell you, I'm a little tired because I got up this morning.

I've been doing Captain Freedom's workout, and it's exhausting. I'm ready for pain and suffering. Here's what I love about this movie. I love what you love. It's a Long Island iced tea orgy of every 80s ingredient. There's pro wrestlers,

as bodybuilders, is game show host, rock stars, steroids, violence, just a little sex, a ton of gambling, and it's packaged into this 100-minute rewatchable to-go bag. It's so fun. I'm in a great mood right now. And Arnold test driving just a bunch of bad one-liners and puns. It's like exhibition season for what would become the Super Bowl with Total Recall. Do you feel like this movie walked so Total Recall could run? And where do you rank them against each other? you brought that up because I'm just going to hit you right out the gates. This movie sneaks into

my Arnold top five. And I don't know if this is a hot take, but I'll give it you very quickly. I've got I've got Predator number one, then T2, then I've got Commando, then I've got T1, so that's my four. And then I have the running man in this fifth slot, and I know people are screaming about Total Recall. Total Recall is great. This movie is just so silly and a little bit more fun and Arnold's just a tad bit younger that I run with it. It's so fucking fun. And I also think, Bill, like, the fun contrast is that it comes after Predator. And like, here's how I feel about the Running Man. Predator is letting you know, like, it's not fucking around. Predator is steak and potatoes and a glass of scotch. The Running Man is dessert. It's so silly. It's so ridiculous. There's all the one-liners.

Like, Predator, he's not doing that shit. He's not saying, I'll be back in Predator. He says it here and he says them all. So the contrast, because they came out in the same year is so far. Yeah. Well, they were supposed to come out basically the same month and they ended up moving the running man. There's a big picture Arnold versus sly context, which we've talked about a bunch of times than three watchables. But Arnold has Terminator, Red Sonia, Commando, Raw Deal from 84 to 86. But Stallone is at his peak, which we've covered in multiple movies, 85 to 87, Rocky 4, Rambo 2, Cobra, over the top. He's the biggest star in the world.

But Schwarzenegger's kind of eye in the corner. And 87 is when it flips because he's got Predator and the Running Man basically within four months of each other. Red Heat the next year, which was his last disappointment, turns down diehard in 88, but does from 88 to 91, Twins, Total Recall, Kindergarten Cop, Terminator 2. And it was just a haymaker that Sly never really recovered from until Cliffhanger when Arnold finally was like, I'm just going to walk off into the sunset with the championship belt. Arnold came back with Cliffhanger, but do you, do you remember,

well, you were pretty young at this point, but I remember it flipping where all of a sudden Arnold was cooler than Sly, and it happened during this stretcher. But I think there was some Sly fatigue, too, which might have helped, which might have helped Arnold. Well, because Sly also was just making all these Rocky movies. And so there was, it's like, slide just became the Rocky guy. It felt like he was like what Cruz was doing with Mission Impossible. Like, are you just going to keep making the same franchise over and over? But I remember Arnold showing up because I, like, everybody remembers the one movie they

saw when they were way too young. Like maybe their dad let him see it. Because I like you, Bill, like, I would go to my dad's house. My parents were divorced and we'd go to the video store and my dad would rent some totally irresponsible shit. So I saw the first Terminator, I think when I was like seven years old and he's cutting his eye out with a scalpel. And I was like, it was so irresponsible. And like, Lynn Hamilton is doing like, woman on top sex.

And I was first fucking grade. So Arnold was on my radar then. And honestly, this movie. Women on top sex. I mean, can we go back to the fact that Kyle Reese goes back in time. He's protecting her from a Terminator. His whole instinct is to protect her. And they do a woman on top sex in which she's completely vulnerable.

Like, never mind. I remember seeing the running man because as a kid, it really appeals to kids. Because it's basically WrestleMania. There's just pro wrestlers coming out. with different schicks. And I remember thinking that the running man was like, oh, this guy's amazing. I didn't see Sly having any shit like that.

This is the one that really turned me because I was really young when I saw it. I saw it in Orlando, Florida with my buddy Gus and his friends because I went to visit him when he was in college. And it was an event. It was like Arnold has a movie out. We're going.

Like he had reached that status. And I think Predator was what got him there. Once Predator happens, Arnold movies now become an event along the lines of Sly. And I don't know if we have under 45 action star like that anymore. I don't know if we've had it for a while. I think Cruz, when he has Mission Impossible, those are events. But for the most part, just somebody like being on a poster,

showing some biceps with some dumb concept, that era is kind of over. Well, the poster for this movie is just his face. That's what they would do. It was just like super close up, like eyebrow to chin. That's all you needed. You know, we talked about a little bit, like, one of the reasons to talk about this movie now is like, they're going to do it again. And they cast Glenn Powell from Top Gun Maverick. I don't mind Glenn Powell as the running man.

I liked it. And the director's good. It's Edgar Wright. Like, that thing might work. Yeah. So we'll get into that. But my take on right now with the running man is I think it's Arnold just about to hit his prime. Like he's right there.

I think really total recall is his prime, and then he gets into T-2 and his biggest movie star in the world. But he's just about there. And it's like, you can tell. He's got some work to go, but he's still so fun to watch. So one other thing about Arnold in 1987, which I didn't realize until I started researching this, Stanley Kubrick wanted him for full metal jacket

for the role of like animal somebody. And Arnold turned it down because he had this predator, a running man combo and ended up not doing it. Wow. Not for the Vincent Donofrio part though, right? No. Hey, Joker. But so he ends up basically, he's like, I want to do action and comedy and his instincts

were correct. Yeah. The other really interesting thing about this movie, other than what it means to the Arnold canon, is kind of prescient in some ways for where things were going. This is just, I'll read you the Wikipedia description of this movie. I'm not saying this is the case now, but just when you see it all laid out, it's like this is kind of a genius movie. By 2017, the world economy has collapsed.

Natural resources and oil are in short supply. A police state divided in paramilitary zones rules with an iron hand. Television is controlled by the state and a sadistic game show called The Running Man, which has become the most popular program in history. Art, music, and communications are censored, no dissent is tolerated, and yet a small resistance movement has managed to survive underground. Really good premise for a movie. Now, what's interesting is this is based on a Stephen King book, which he wrote as Richard Bachman.

His whole vision is set in 2025, one year from right now. And it's all about social inequality and how violence, the entertainment, and reality shows are used as tools by the elites to galvanize the oppressed. The movie is set in 2017, basically through 2019, it predicts the reality TV boom. We did not have reality TV in 1987. It predicts extreme reality TV shows. Like in 1987, the concept of a show called Naked and Afraid was probably inconceivable, but all that stuff happened.

it predicted fake news and disinformation. It predicted deep fakes, which I don't even think I realized for the first 20 years of this movie. It predicted a reality TV host becoming as powerful as the president. Or Donald Trump's case, the president. It predicted the internet. It predicted voice-activated household things. It predicted in-game gambling. We didn't know that.

We didn't know that was a possibility of 1987. And Richard Dawson basically is Donald Trump in this movie? Pretty much. Just have to mention that. Anything else? What else did this movie predict? Well, it's all those, the competition shows, like American Ninja Warrior is the running man, like without murder and all the, like, American gladiators.

And like, I think the people at Fandul owe something to this. Like those guys out on the chocolate. board with the cowboy has like that's draft kings it's like it's in-game betting all of that stuff but i think the dawson part is the most fascinating because this if dawson doesn't get killed in this movie he goes on to be president in the running man too it's obvious like he's that powerful and that charismatic so it's across the board but i think it's true it's like this movie is not just about okay buzz saw got his nuts sought in half and we all love it because we love violence i had it coming up and later in like unanswerable questions is do you think this will ever

happen like 40 years from now is there like a show on whatever platform we have where people are killed are we going to finally get there? I think maybe we might. I would not rule it out. I mean when you think of all the shit that we've seen over the last 20

plus years with TV, I don't think this can be ruled out. I don't either. The other thing with the movie being said in 2017, which was the year Trump became president, it's just really weird. Like of all the years that this movie is basically starting, that's the year of year one of Trump presidency. And Dawson is just this larger than life

game show host that just knows how to work the audience. And I don't know, it really, it really jumped out of me this time more than other times when I watched it. I was surprised. I think 2017 will work out for you, Bill, because it would preclude the Nick Foles being the Patriots in the Super Bowl. That's a great beat for you, right? I wish we got backwards. A BBC journalist in 2017 was the first one that wrote about this, was she was saying how it predicted the economic collapse and American TV culture. And then New York Post in 2019 was saying how it predicted the widening gap between the rich and poor and then society's

obsession with reality TV. One of the things with when this shit, when this movie came out in 87, it was like, man, this would never happen. Like what game shows did we have? We had like prices right. We had family feud. We had like all the all the daytime type of shows, not any show like this. But one of the genius things that did was it cast Richard Dawson as the crazy Donald Trump type reality host. And I can't overstate the stunt casting of that. And what Richard Dawson's role was life, I'm older than you in my childhood, where he was one of the best match game guys. The match game was this hugely important afternoon game show, Charles Nelson Riley, Brett Summers, Richard Dawson, Gene Rayburn as the host. And it was like, everyone, everyone was, like, everyone

and watched it. And Richard Dawson was one of the keys to the show. He's from Hogan's Heroes. And then ends up on Family Feud. And there's never been a host like him on any game show where he would just make out with there. I mean, you could go and watch YouTube. You sent us one. You sent me and Craig One. There's super cuts. Just super cuts of him just making out with female contestants on female feed. He was just a maniac. Yeah. I have great memories of him as a kid. He would come out in a three-piece suit with a giant carnation. And he might as well have had a cigarette and a bourbon. He was just holding court.

And it's not a joke. Every female contestant, he would kiss directly on the lips, not the cheek. Sometimes multiple kisses on the lips. And it just became normal. And, like, look, there's videos online of him explaining it later in life. And his explanations are all over the map. He talks about race. He talks about all sorts of bizarre things.

And at one point, ABC said, you have to stop. and he goes, I'm not stopping. And then in the movie, sure enough, they nod the hat to it when he stands up with the old lady. He goes, I want to kiss, but remember, no tongue. Like, that was a huge joke. Probably killed in the theater when he said that.

Well, he just belongs to a different era. I don't know how he makes sense in 2024. But everyone my age loved Richard Dawson. So him being in this movie is like, Richard Dawson's in an Arnold movie? And then he was, I think, like legitimately great. It's a stunning performance.

He had the acting background, but it's a big reason why this movie is ageable. I don't know if you're under 30. You have no history with Richard Dawson. You probably don't know. But those were when game shows, we had game show hosts with Bob Barker and his prime. We had Richard Dawson and his prime.

We had Trebek kind of coming up. We had Seajack coming up. It was kind of the heyday of even Jim Perry doing card sharks. I'm trying to explain. to the Craigs. All right. So imagine, like, the biggest movie star in the world now who, I don't know, is maybe

DiCaprio or Cruz, like, they have a big movie coming out. And the number one antagonist in the movie, like, who they showdown with for the whole film is Steve Harvey. Like, would that be comparable? Or Regis Philbin. Or that's Regis before he passed away. Or Drew Carey is the villain across from Tom Cruise. It just, it doesn't make sense.

But I think at the time, I agree. like he was a rock star he was really cool and i think he's so good in this movie they could have cast so many different actors other than richard dosh they could have cast richard rifex they nailed it with richard dorson and maria conchita alonzo who there was only a couple actresses when hollywood's like we'd like to be more diverse and they went to basically her and ray don chong as their ways to get more diverse uh but she had a nice little run here she was in touch and go she was in the running man vampires kiss and colors yeah had this four, three, four year run and then just got shoved out.

But I think she's excellent in this movie. I was thinking about recasting couch, like, oh, is this a way for me to work Sharon Stone in another 80s movie? I was like, no, I'm actually really good with Maria Conchita Lozzo. I thought she was good in this. I have some thoughts on her character arc. We'll get into later. Yeah, well, it's definitely an arc.

We have villains that include Professor Sub-Zero. That's right. over 30 lifetime kills Kyle he slices his opponents from limb to limb in a quivering bloody sushi we have dynamo opera singer we have buzzsaw whose gimmick is he's got a saw

we have fireball who's fire gun guy and then Sven I'm not sure what Sven's gimmick was but he's like a I think it's like a gay movie theater usher basically I don't I guess that's his vibe what was his vibe he's just silent security guard and the guy's actual actor's name is Sven

he's been in a ton of Arnold movies he was in Predator and he has a very strange moment at the end of the movie that we'll get into and then of course we have Captain Freedom who hangs up his announcer's mic to get back in it and we got a great performance by Jesse Ventura

Jesse the body as Captain Freedom basically creating the modern sideline reporter I don't know if I don't know I don't just do you think Schrager watched old Captain Freedom tapes before he did his first NFC playoff game. Definitely, yes. But I think more of an ex-player. I remember, like, remember when the late Tony Saragusa would be down on the sidelines?

And he'd play and he'd be like, yeah, they're really getting it after down here. Man, a lot of hitting. And it was awesome. Yeah. They're really going after it, guys. Steelers Ravens. That's really what Captain Freedom's like. And I love that Dawson keeps, like, undercutting him and like in the middle of his

dumb story. He's like, sorry, Cap, they're in the first zone. It's great. Dawson's so good. You know, there's a possibility. OJ invented the player becoming the sideline reporter thing because they used to go down to him on the sidelines

and then the trial where he had the gloves on and they were like those are the same gloves that... Oh yeah, on the sideline he'd have leather gloves you got from NBC. Yeah, I don't know if he beat Captain Freedom or not. The other thing with this movie is just the one-liners which I'll just read them off with no context whatsoever. Give you a lift.

You can't leave with them. You can't leave without them. Don't forget to send me a copy. Now, plane zero. Yeah, he was a real pain in the neck. What happened in Buzaw? He had to split. His best acting performance.

I hope you leave enough room for my fist because I'm going to rammy your stomach and break your goddamn spine. How about a light? What a hot head. I wouldn't want to be a liar. It's showtime. I don't do requests.

Will that hit the spot? He's just, I can't even imagine the script. like when they're they're bringing over like page 78 like Arnold you like this one he's like I like that one check I didn't check that one a good one uh probably his if you're doing the kirk Goldsbury uh you know per minute sure whatever quote PR probably his highest for just ripping off quotes or would you would you put another movie over this it's definitely the highest I my theory on that is that McTiernan wasn't going for that shit on predator he let him have one which is stick around and so they just scraped him all from predator and they put him

right into the running man. The one that kills me the most is when he says, how about a light to fireball, like 10 seconds later, he says, what a hot head. Like, they're way together.

He's just on fucking fire with that stuff. It's so, and it's like, he's like for handy danger field. He's like, oh, oh, oh,

right. It's danger field in the country club, uh, just going, like rim shot, rim shot, rim shot. And like,

we're going to talk about this. Like, the writing in the movie is, is so, so horrible. But, uh, They make up for it with the action.

I got some of the thoughts on the writing. There's so many one-liners. He also says, I'll be back. Does he have done that outside of Terminator? Is that a thing he would do in other non-terminator movies? I hadn't heard him say that before. No, listen, Craig, he would show up sometimes and say it. He says it in Commando when he says, Benet, I'll be back.

He would do a thing where he would say it in almost every movie. Oh, okay. I forgot about those. Okay. Right. So, yeah. Yeah, and also kind of, you kind of wanted it in the 80s. Yeah, it was cool.

I hope he says I'll be back. Oh, he did it again. He said it one more time. We also had some stunt casting. You mentioned Jesse Ventura. Yeah. Yafakoto, who, you know, went on to Peak and Midnight Run with one of the great performances of all time. Jim Brown, former football hero.

Dweeasla Zappa, Frank Zappa son, whose calling card was basically he had a weird first name and he was related to Frank Zappa. And then Mc Fleetwood. Right. Mick Fleetwood. And then Dwezel Zap's character's name is Stevie, which I think is like an Easter egg for Stevie Nix. Like, there's a lot going on. They were having so much fun on the set, I guess.

As we always say when we do movies from the mid-80s, just an incredible amount of cocaine everywhere, and you can't really explain certain things. Movie was directed by Paul Michael Glazer. Yep. Who was either Starsky or Hutch. I think he was Starsky. I think you're Starsky, too.

He also directed the, Miami Vice Pilot, one of the great pilots ever made. He also directed the cutting edge. One of my wife's favorite movies. I was upset. This movie was $32 million budget. Only made $38.1 million. I think it was, I just think it came out in the wrong time of year.

It came out through football season. Yeah, it was like October, November. You know, Predator just come out. And I think 87 was loaded in general with movies. But I was surprised. I would have guessed like $150 million. But like, in my first. friend circle, it was a big deal, this movie. Massive. It ran a lot on it. It happened eventually.

Yeah, it definitely happened. But I don't know if my dad saw this in the theater, though. I don't know why, but I just maybe just didn't pop. Well, you know what happened is this, you know, the whole theme of this podcast. This movie hits all the cable. At first, you're renting it, then it hits all the cable channels. Then it just settles on TNT, TBS. All of those channels syndicated forever. It's just on all the time for like years. Roger Ebert, two and a half stars. I'll take it. The Running Man is an arcade game for the big screen. A contest in which the player is Arnold Schwarzenger in the game

keeps throwing big bruisers at him. Then he says, all the action scenes are versions of the same scenario. Richard Dawson has at last found the role he was born to play. I couldn't agree more, Raj. Great job. We're taking a break and do the categories. This episode

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Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. most rewatchable scene, there's a few. Would you put the original Bakersfield massacre before they edited it and deep faked it? Because I wouldn't, but I just wanted to mention it. I think it's a nice setup for what comes. Good setup. Yeah, yeah. First one, the escape from the Wilshire detention zone.

Let's go. Come on. Chico, he just couldn't wait. Poor Chico. He just couldn't wait. extra five seconds. No, Chico, no. Come back. The deadline's still up.

That collar's going to blow. Chico, Amigo! That collar's going to blow. He's not going to make it. Chico was Leroy Jenkins before the internet. Like, just all fucking in and ready to go and completely embarrasses himself. They're screaming at Chico not to go. And he won't stop.

Like, I love Chico. Chico's so much in this movie that I would even put him up as like a Dion Waiters. Like the 12 seconds he has is so fucking good. And I look at it, Bill, I'm going to rank Chico in some of the most embarrassing runs of all time. Chico's up there with Leon Lett in the Super Bowl. He's up there with Daniel Jones falling on his fucking face against the Eagles. And maybe Buda Baker getting caught by D.K. Metcalf behind. And then Chico, whose head explodes because he just can't wait five more seconds.

I love Chico. I would also throw in every time Stephen Seagal ran in a movie. Imagine if Seagal played Chico have been best. It's cat legs. I also like the concept of the Wilshire detention zone. You know, I live in Los Angeles. I was trying to figure out what part of Wilshire is that? How big is it?

Did it stretch into some of the side streets? What's going on there? Captain Freedom's workout tape is its own rewatchable scene. Are you ready for pain? Are you ready for suffering? If the answer is yes, then you're ready for Captain Freedom's workout. Yes, it's America's own Captain Freedom. One of the things I love about this moment,

when we talk about this sometimes on the pod, sometimes the movie makes perfect sense what year it is, and it could not have been released in any other year. And I feel like with this movie, it could either been 86 or 87, but really 87's perfect. Because aerobics, the Jane Fonda, And that whole aerobics boom, it's kind of starting to die a tiny bit by 87, but not totally. It's still realistic.

So the fact that he's doing this, ESPN had, I think, the show where they used to have the people doing aerobics. So it made sense, he's got that weird hair, the way they shoot the video. I just, I loved it. I thought it was perfect. It's arguably my favorite part of the whole movie. I love Captain Freedom's Workout. I've had buddies whose fantasy team names are Captain Freedom's Workout.

also at the time Eric Nice was doing the grind on MTV. It was all really big. I have two questions. Amber Mendez says like, I see ass, Channel 1, whatever, she's turning it on. And then she doesn't do the workout at all. She's on a Pilates machine not following the workout, which is weird. Yeah. But my favorite part is that Jesse comes in and it's, are you ready for pain?

And from the other side of the screen, are you ready for suffering? And then upside down from the top, if the answer is yes. And then the pain and suffering of the workout is like three ladies doing jazzercise in the back, There's no weights. There's no nothing. It's like it was a lot of bark and not that much bite cap. I don't know what the workout is, but I love that part. My thought was maybe like the second half of the workout got a little more rigorous.

Maybe they used into it. But yeah, you're right. It wasn't really, I wouldn't say it was rigorous. Captain Freedom, just in general. How do you think they came up with the idea, the gimmick? So is he patriotic? Okay. Is he freeing you from being obese?

or not working out? What is the freedom part? All right. So it's very strange because Captain Freedom shows up for a scene late in the movie in costume as a stalker. And he's wearing the shittiest

garbage of like some bad sci-fi villain. And it's awful. You think he would come in with like a Kirkland brand Captain America outfit. Like I'm for the truth,

justice, the American way. But he has this Star Wars bullshit on. So I don't even know what his thing was. I just know that Cap is real intense. They have a blatant shot

where they show him popping steroids at one point because you have to do it right there in the green room is just popping them. So I don't know what they were going for with him, but I just love Ventura.

Every time he talks, it makes me laugh. The costume that he has, it's like when we've both had little kids when you go to those Halloween pop-up stores and you buy the costumes and those big plastic things for like $39.99, it's like a Captain Freedom costume

and you put your kid it in. It's a little too big. It looks super. super cheap. That was his costume for the movie for whatever reason. It's $32 million budget. It's never like Austin Powers costume. It's like Shagadelic Spy. They don't go by the name. So it would be some knockoff thing in the in the Halloween bag. And it's almost falling off of them. It looks like shit. It looks terrible. But Cap is still the man. I really like Ben Richards taking Amber to Hawaii and then her getting out of it.

but I just, I like being in airports in the 80s, like way before 9-11 when it was just basically anybody could get through airport security. You could just make up excuses. You could have a hostage and get through. And then the concept of somebody just running onto the actual airport where the planes are taking, it's fine. I'm glad you have that take, Bill, because people like to make jokes about this part of the movie. They're like, oh, they just let them on the plane.

Like, he don't even have ID. I'm like, you guys don't understand. that probably would have worked in 1987. It was just like, ah, we can't find her driver's license. Ah, just go. Just go. And I also like that the Richard's plan was, I'm the most famous mass murder in the world.

And they're everywhere. So I'm just going to put on a Panama Jack hat and some sunglasses and go to the airport. And they don't even notice them. It works. Sometimes it goes like that in the AIDS. I promise you, young people. It would have worked.

It was like the Hannibal Lecter end of the silence that lambs discussed. The next one I have is, is Damie Killian explained to Richards that he's on the show. Now you've got more, you've got talent. And that's why I pulled a few strings to get you here.

I'd like you to volunteer to appear running a man. Fuck you. You're brilliant conversations, man. A trifle images is brilliant. Fuck you. Fuck you. Is he the funniest person

who's ever said fuck you in a movie, Arnold? every time he says fuck you I think it's hilarious you laugh out loud Kili and tease him up and he goes I like you to volunteer to be on tomorrow's episode

of the running man fuck you that's it it's totally bare and then also in the same scene when he shows him he pulls the rug out and shows them

that he's got his friends on video he goes Weiss Loughlin what are you gonna do with them it's so bad this might be Arnold's worst acting movie

and that includes like Hercules goes bananas he's so bad in this movie he's so bad he's good. I know. I mean, this is, this isn't the running for me for favorite scene.

I just read, this is an extended one, but I wrote down, the slutty aerobics cheerleaders with BuzzSaw's entrance into Killian's entrance into the doctored Bakersfield massacre video. That's great. It's just an elite six minutes. So our first documented deep fake of all time. The cheerleaders, they really go for it. And it's, you know, spoiler alert for half-assified.

and research choreographed by Paul Abdul. This is the rise of Paul Abdul right here. And they're just going full Lakers, girls, mid-80s, let's do this. Oh, wait, you think it's over and not up? Here's 20 more seconds of dancing. And they really lean into it. How about when they finally get Richards out there? And then the dancer girls are all like sexing him up and like rubbing all over him

and like rubbing his thighs and stuff. And it's like, geez, ladies, the show is over. This guy murdered 60 people. Like they got G-strings going way up. there. And like, Paul Abdul was a Laker girl. And then as pop star, it was a, it's a huge deal that she did this in 1987. And like, they spent a lot of time on that dance routine, a lot. They really did. Do you think an NBA team could bring this back as a, not quite an unanswerable question? Do you think they could just have running man cheerleaders day instead of like the,

the outfits they wear now? I feel like they could. I also love when he comes, it's showtime with the, they throws the hands up. Oh, it gives me goosebumps. And then he puts him in the pod. Killian, I'll be back. On your marks. Get set. Killian, I'll be back. Only in a rerun.

Only in a rerun is one of the most famous things. Fucking awesome. This was an 80s thing, though, where they would have these pods, where they would just shoot the pods into just the boughs of hell. And then you would just kind of end up somewhere, but everything was perfectly done. And I would say that sequence you just laid out,

a lot of people ask, like, is this, you know, we've asked this before, is this like a good, bad movie, or is this actually a good movie? When he starts doing, it's time to start running. And he hits Richards with that only in a rerun. Go. I'm like, this is a good movie. Fuck it.

I don't care. This movie's awesome. I apologize for nothing. Yeah, and I'll take you back 37 years, not knowing really what the movie was about, just that he was in, like this, you know, futuristic evil game show. When he's in the pod, the first time you watch this movie, you don't know what's going

you're just like, I'm all in. I don't know what's going. Where's he going? It's a little similar to escape from New York when he lands in the, Kurt Russell, lands the plane in the city of New York. She's like, I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm in. There's no way I'm turning this off. First, next we'll see in the sub-zero battle.

Yep. I got to be honest, this could have gone on a few minutes longer. Yeah. Go on. For some reason, this is a one-round fight, and I was ready for three, four rounds, but it leads to, hey, Killian, his sub-zero, the plane zero. Okay. Is that the worst line reading of Arnold's career?

Like, he's had some rough ones. Also, is that, is that insulting that he went from sub-zero to plane zero? I don't even really understand the dig. I think it's actually an elevation if you go to plane from sub. That's what I think. it's it's i never when i was a kid i never got the joke i never understand it it it strikes me as one of those moments bill where the director's like fuck arnold can't get this line right like let's let's do one more take and let's just

try arnold just try one more time to say it in any way intelligibly now plane zero and right let's move it on we'll take it it's it's the strangest line to read it doesn't make any sense like if we had been script writers on the set we would have been like arnold right what about Here's Zub-Zero. Now he's a submarine. He's a sub-samwich. He's a substitute teacher. It's a sub-teacher.

Plain Zero just didn't work, but over the years, I'm so glad he said Plain Zero, because it's way funnier. It's the least insulting insult of the movie. He's a sub-wuffer. He's very loud. It's just, it's plain zero. It's the strangest line in the whole movie. Do you have Sub-Zero thoughts now, or do you want to wait till nitpicks or?

probably unanswerable questions. We could do this anytime you want. At some point, Bill, I'm going to hit you with my stalker power rankings. Okay. I can wait. I got them. Okay. Next one is the Figaro battle, which a guy singing opera, and he really was an opera singer.

Yeah. Really, the only reasons to love this is Arnold going, hit Christmas tree. Follow me, Bob. Yeah. It's like, are these insults? What's happening? It's a fun scene. another one that maybe could have been better.

It's weird the fight scenes aren't as good as you want them to be when you're re-watching these, but they're still fun. But I wish, you know, like 10 years later, I feel like these are better action scenes. I think at some point, you mentioned cocaine. All right. At some point there is in the production office or the writer's room. And they're like, all right, we got a chainsaw guy. We got a fire guy.

And we got this cool, like, samurai hockey guy. I think we need one more stalker. Anybody have any ideas? And someone's like, how about? an obese guy in a light, bright suit who sings opera, and also let's make him a rapist at the end of the movie. You're like, fucking great. Put that guy in.

We've been missing that one. That was the cocaine talking. Dynamo's character is pure cocaine. What was he doing there? Yeah, it's a great point. And it was like one of those actors where he might, somebody might owe him a favor. I just didn't, it was like he could sing opera.

Good, he's in. Is he in shape? Not really. Just throw him out there. Let's put in a scene at the end, too, when he tries to force himself on Amber, and we see his disgusting, tidy whiteies hanging out of the back of his costume. It's like that character is so strange and so 80s would never happen now. Yeah.

Just the quickie, the old lady going, I could pick anyone I choose, and I choose Ben Richards. That boys wouldn't mean motherfucker. Great stuff. So I wrote down for a rewatchable scene, the deep fake murders by Captain Freedom. Yeah. when he kills Amber and Ben Richards,

but he really didn't, but they have this amazing deep fake technology make it seem like it. One of the biggest gambling scandals of all time. Big time. People are gambling on this, and it's like, oh, Captain Freedom won,

all right, got to pay that off. Where the bets were funded? No. Like, what do you think happened? This is way bigger than Jonte Porter. Oh, way bigger than that. This is bigger than the Black Sox. This is everything.

Donahee. Yeah. Remember at this point, no, this Donahey, he's small potatoes. At this point, everyone's betting on Richards, because he just killed Fireball.

And everyone made a ton of money on the Fireball fight. So everyone's like, Captain Freedom's this old washed up Roydehead who's got nothing. Riches is going to kill him. They fix it completely. They lost tons of money.

Because you know they let it ride on their fireball winnings to bet on him against Captain Freedom. They all lost massive cover-up. The original Bakersfield cut when they show that. They hacked the system. It's Showtime.

The crowd's disgusted by Killian. Yeah, that's good. And Dawson really goes. for it. This is his Oscar speech. This is television. That's all it is. It's nothing to do with people. It's to do with the ratings. For 50 years, we've told them what to eat. What to drink? What to wear?

For Christ's sake, Ben, don't you understand? Americans love television. They wean their kids on it. Listen, they love game shows. They love wrestling. They love sports, violence. So what do we do? We give them what? they want.

We're number one, Ben. That's all that counts. Believe me. I've been in the business 30 years. For 50 years, we told them what to eat, what to drink, what to wear. Leading to, uh, drop dead. You bastard. Drop dead.

I don't do requests. I don't do requests. It's rough. Really good ending. Solid. Yeah. And when he hits, well, that hit the spot. It was great.

Any other rewatchable scenes or did I hit everything? I think he covered them all. It's all the Killian and it's all the stalkers. I think my favorite section is the cheerleaders in the BuzzSaws entrance and the Killian's interest and the massacre video and it's showtime. I'll be back. That's six minutes is my favorite. And he also just announced Weiss and Laughlin and he sends them down.

It's all happening. And that is the best part because you're like, that's like the flyover before the Super Bowl. when you're like, oh shit, let's start the game. It feels like that. Hey, Craig, what was your most rewatchable scene? Just out of curiosity, never having seen this movie before. It's any time we cut to Dawson hosting the game show. Yeah, okay.

Anytime we're back in the studio with Dawson, or with Damon, sorry, just cooking. That's my favorite. Okay. What's age the best? Well, I've said this before. It's not going to be a surprise. Any movie that starts with a long graphic telling us about in the future, something has happened, in this case.

In 2017, society has collapsed. So good. I'm in. And they just do the long intro for that. I love that. So there's three fake 2017 shows that are reality shows in this. One is the running man. One is climbing for dollars, which they show video of, which, like, if that was on

Peacock, would you be shocked? No, not at all. It's a rope that has money on it. and someone climbs up and tries to grab the money. And if he falls off the rope, Dobermans tear him to shreds. Worst game show name ever? Climing for dollars. They couldn't have put 10 more seconds of thought into the name of that show.

It's like something from UHF. You're climbing for dollars, Craig. Well, and then the show that was the best idea of all of these. A show that probably should exist now. And I can't believe it hasn't been ripped off. The hate boat. Oh, yeah. They show the poster, right?

Yeah, they show the poster of the hate boat. And I'm like, the hate boat, what an amazing idea. Now, it's like right after the love boat had, I think, just been canceled right before this movie came out. But what was the hate boat? What happens in the hate boat? Everyone just goes on the boat? You kill each other? Is it people who hate each other?

I just wanted more info. I think it's people who go on the boat completely in love. And then they just have terrible divorces. And they break up and everybody leaves. And I think there's violence. And I think it's exactly the opposite. And there's no Captain Stew Bean and there's no Tom Hanks cameo. I would watch the hate boat right now, though.

That would have been on the spike network before it folded for sure. No question. Or maybe it's divorced people or legally separated people, and now they have to stay in the hate boat for like with their kids. And get along with their kids. It's War of Roses at sea. The hate boat sounds amazing. I wrote down for what stage is the best,

Captain Freedom is a sideline reporter like Tom Rinaldi on steroids. It was basically my scouting report of him. There's two future governors in this movie. Ventura and Arnold. Right. I have more, but do you have any for What Stage is the Best? I just think the first 10 minutes are so, so, so good. You start with that beautiful tristar, majestically galloping Pegasist, which we all love.

Then you're into font porn, and then you have the helicopter, and you're at the prison, and Chico's head exploding, and you're Dawson. Like, there's no fat on the beginning. I love how the movie starts. I also have a deeper cut, What Stage the Best? pen names. Richard Bachman, Stephen King's pen name

in the 80s, wrote the running man. Bill, would you ever consider writing a column with a pen name? How do you know I haven't? Tell us who it is.

Who is your pen name? Someday, maybe I'll tell you. That's great. I did that. There was Richard Bachman, Garth Brooks, sat at an alter ego. Only a couple people have done this.

Chris Gaines, he was like a pop star all of a sudden. And you do it, like King did it for really fascinating reasons, one of which was like, I want to see if it's my name or my talent that's selling books. And he went by Bachman and wrote out some fucking bangers, including this book, which is hugely different from the movie. But what a power move.

Chris Gaines, not as much. But yeah, Bachman was awesome. The, uh, you mentioned the Bakersfield opening. I like when he goes, the hell with you. I will not file and help us people. It goes back to your point that this is some of the worst acting Arnold's probably ever done. I also like that they don't made us wait. 15 seconds of the movie when they grab him and perform him.

from the seat, we get our first Arnold I think the only movie he does more of that is still total recall in which he does it from start to finish but he does a lot in this movie. Yeah, it's a good call. It's like Stallone had cliffhanger for that. Morowitz's age the best. Future 2017 Mick Fleetwood. Okay, go on. With old guy makeup on looking like

McFleetwood right now. Really good. job. 40 years ago, the makeup and somehow they knew what he was going to look like in 2024. I just thought that's what he did look like. That's not, that was aging him dramatically back then I didn't know. They did. Yeah, they did. I'm not in a politics. I'm in a survival. Good quote. Great line. So Amber goes into the game and one of their intros for her, she's had sexual relations with two, sometimes three men in a year. and she's going in with a guy who murdered 60 people in a crowd. Like, that's the job.

Dynamo's car looks like the new Tesla truck. Just wanted to shout that out for what stage is the best. Like, really, my wife pointed that out. That was the one contribution in the podcast. So you do those, but in the playoffs, you do those kind of movie parody things. Yeah. Like you did casino, you know. Sure.

I was thinking Arnold's early movie beard, which is clearly fake. I don't think he grew that himself. No. And just this era of 80s, 90s, because Seagall we talked about and Hard to Kill, this era of fake movie beards, I think you might have to weave that into the next, whatever your next walk and talk is, maybe just have some just horrible action movie 80s beard. I should do an actual hard to kill one. Like Mahomes is hard to kill, and I'll be Mahomes with a terrible.

beard like that. I'm in. Good call. That sounds great. Great idea. I also like when when Richards finally goes to the escape and they go and they find Mick, they have to like find Ben Richards some clothes. And they're like, all we have is this double XL world's gym shirt right here that shows off your delts perfectly. And we have a village people construction hat. So you'll look great. Come on. What are we doing? What is that outfit he's wearing? What stage the best? Net tasers. Oh, that thing's badass. The tasers that just get capture somebody in a nail. Do those work? Why don't we still have those? Why don't we've seen those on cops a thousand times before it was retired? They run down Richards on the tarmac and instead of

electrically-cating, they shoot this net around them that was like, whoever came up with that is so cool. I love that thing. It's cool. I might have that as my souvenir I want to keep. I don't know if this is what stage the best or what's age the worst, but 2017 run down crazy Los Angeles isn't far off from Los Angeles right now. So it's maybe it's both categories. just the graphic music by Harold Faltermeyer I know would have run for him in 87 man this is cop two

he's got that he's already had Fletch and cop one I mean this is this is Top Guns happened Craig hit us with some Faltermeyer he goes that the score really hits and that's another thing that makes it a real movie

it's not just some stupid cheese fest it is but it's the score is awesome and yet I'm going to put this and what's age the worst. This is a hybrid. It's kind of cop two. If you really listen to it, is it?

It really kind of sounds like he had been working on cop two and then was like, no, I'll use this one instead for cop tune. It's like, oh, that other one I did that. I'll use that.

But it's definitely, it's not quite brothers, but they're cousins. Dude, everybody in every line of work does that. If you have one project that you finished, you're like,

oh, I didn't use that. Maybe I'll just push it forward to the next project. I know I'd do it. I had some Dak Prescott take that, yeah, it might work for Kirk Cousins too. Let's just use it there. Dynamo's name was Erlin Van Liff, and he was a baritone opera singer, and that was really him singing, and sadly he died the same year the movie came out. And then the film really did inspire American gladiators, and they're pretty open about, yeah, we saw a running man,

and we're like, let's make this a game show. Okay. The Kid Cuddy, happen, it's the word for best needle drop. And also worst needle drop. The closing credits, we get through this whole movie with no 80s songs. Let's go. And then at the end, it's like, no more lonely nights with a restless heart.

And it's just one of the worst songs you've ever heard in your life. Like they couldn't have gotten the guy from Vision Quest, John Wait. They couldn't have gotten somebody, they couldn't have gotten John Parr. Anyone named John? No, hold on. That song is John Parr. The song, The song is by John Clark.

Closing credit song? Yeah, that's it. I take it back. It's called Restless Hearts. It's John Parr cooking. I'm telling you. Oh, it's so bad. Arnold just killed Killian and then Amber like comes down the hallway.

And then it's just, it's slow motion and all of a sudden it's like, this is no game. And it's, oh, shit. They're going to kiss. Are they really going to kiss? What the fuck is happening here? It's so bad. He was a home invader the day before. What is going on?

The song is pretty bad, man. It's one of the lamest ending songs to a movie. At the end of point break, when Bodey's walking off through the wave and Johnny Utah just beat him, they hit at you with a rat song, R-A-T-T-R-A. And I'm like, I think we could have done something that aged a little bit better. I love rat, round and round. But come on, John Parr. It's so funny, I thought John Parr, and it actually was John Parr.

It is him. The Great Shock Order Award, most cinematic shot, has to be killing, going through the cadre cola sign. It's great shot. Not sure why there's a big explosion or anything, but fuck it. Yeah. It looks really cool. Somehow no net at the end.

The Butcher's Girlfriend Award, Weeklink of the film, mentioned this earlier. I just wanted the Dynamo and Buzzsaw and Figure Off fights to be a little better. But we're also conditioning now, like in the John Wick era, you'd have a choreographed, like 45 seconds, something. They don't even do anything. No, and it leaves you a little bit empty at the end, too. There's that really weird moment when it's Richards and Killian reunited and Killian thinks he's fucked. And then Sven walks in and Killian gets all smug like, oh, I'm going to, first of all, why does

he think that Richards can't beat up Sven? He just beat four stalkers. It doesn't make sense. And then they have that weird line, which is the most unintelligible line of the whole movie where he goes like, I catch a cause of steroids. Like, that guy can't speak English. And you don't know. I think he's saying, I guess it's because of Stalkers.

steroids, but you can't even make out the line and then he just walks off. A fight there would have been better. Give us a fucking fight. I closed captioned it. And even the closed caption guy was like, I don't fucking know what he said. I'm going to punt. I punt on this one. I cut your closet steroids.

We've read this around the office that nobody could figure it out. Yeah, it's completely unintelligible. And it's, it's Venn's biggest moment in the movie. And he's like, it's his only line. And he gets to say, I caught your closet steroids. The closed caption guy's profession is to make out those hard-to-read sentences, and he still couldn't do it. Does it just have six question marks? I throw my hands up.

The Vincent Chase Award for Are We Sure This Character was actually good at his job? Again, going back to Figaro. Go on. Dynamo. I'm sorry, Dynamo. I call him Figaro for some reason. For Dynamo, so he sings opera. he can't run

he's out of shape he's not strong and he's got some sort of weird electricity gimmick that the moment anything goes wrong with that he's just helpless how did this guy last how did this guy last so many seasons

nobody beat this guy don't forget his car sucks and tips over when it goes on a slight incline he one time puts his weapons directly into Amber and she doesn't die like his weapon sucks too and then the second he gets tipped over,

he's like this huge coward and starts screaming, go to commercial, go to commercial. It's a weird character, man. That never would have happened now. That's an 80s thing. He's so bad that I accidentally caught him Figuero three times.

You didn't even correct me until the third time. What stage is the worst? You mentioned the movies opening graphics about as mid-80s and bad as it gets. Porn, probably a step above the graphics for this. in 87. The stunt casting of Richard Dawson is aged the worst

only because it's hard to explain what a big deal was that he was in the movie. Now people know he's in the movie at sunset. All right, here's one. Here's a passion point of mind, Kyle Brown.

Futuristic machine guns in movies like this in the 80s are just not intimidating and it's like, boom, boom, and I think they thought in the future machine, like, you know,

it's intimidating, just machine guns. I know. Like Uzi's. Those are intimidating. I know. Beem, beep,

I know. I would have like some sort of plasma rifle or something. They didn't have the budget for. Even if they just showed up with some of those net guns that would have worked better. I know what you're saying. The guns aren't impressive. And then you mentioned Dynamo, uh,

trying to get frisky with. Oh, Jesus. Amber. I'll show you dickless. It's just the movie gets super weird for like 10 seconds. Like, why?

What's a matter now, bitch? I know. Yeah. Dynamo goes really dark with that. Trojan helmet. And then the last one I had, Schwarzenegger's biceps are only 17 inches for this movie because he had back issues and couldn't lift. So in total recall, 21 inch biceps, you know, he's Hulk Hogan size.

In this movie, he is a little stripped down and you could feel. So he couldn't lift. So I think he was a little embarrassed about that because they put him in the jumpsuit. I think he wishes he was a little bigger. It's true. And he's never shirtless. it. I feel like you hear that he gets smaller for the role and you're like, oh, that's cool. Arnold, you know, his character is in a detention camp for a 16 months. Maybe he intentionally

lost the muscle. No, he would never have done that. He just did it because he got injured. Also, he didn't mention things that age the best. His entrance in this movie is exactly the entrance from Commando where they walk in carrying like the heavy thing over their shoulder. Oh, you're right. It's fucking awesome. In Commando, it's a tree. And here it's this, this large metal beam. Like, he should do that in every movie. He looks so cool. You have any Wood Sage to Worse? I just have to hit the dialogue again. You got so many things going for you and so many cool visuals and actors

and movie stars and rock stars. And the dialogue is so bad. I think the worst part of it is Yafat Koto's death. He is acting his ass off. Like that is a real actor going for it with this physical thing where the eyes stop moving

and it's a really moving performance and the dialogue's like, but start securing my travel arrangements. That's a fucking terrible line. Give the guy something to work with. That dialogue is so horrible. So I feel for Yafet, but we laugh at a lot of it, like, because Schwarzenegger is just ridiculous, but when the real actors have it, it's hard. Yeah, that's a good call.

Well, the Ruffalo, Hannah Rubinick Partridge Overacting Award. Yep. They knew, and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady. I come in here. I give these things to you. Give it all you got. Give it all you got.

I treated you like a son. You fucking stab me in the heart. Fuck you. Which could go a lot of. places here, but Dawson and Jesse the body of Ventura have a little back and forth at one point where I was killing guys

like this 10 years ago with my bare hands. Get them out of here! What's the matter? Stair rights make you deaf. And we just, I don't know why, but the energy just goes to a whole other level. So I'd go with that or I'd go with Arnold doing his when he's talking about ramming it up his Dawson's ass.

You're goddamn, I'll tell you, live to see you eat that contract. That's a great, great run. I would just throw a little nod to our boy Buzzsaw is really going for it too when he's just like, I love this saw. The saw's a part of me. Whoa. Wow. Has anybody ever looked like they're on steroids more than Buzzsaw on the history of people?

I'm going to make it part of you. I'll leave it to you. I think Jesse comes in and he has this one power scene and I think he really goes for it. Yeah. I think that's the right call. Was there a better title for this movie? No way. That's good.

The can you dig it a word for most memorable quote. You mentioned Yafakoto before. Don't let us down. I don't want to be the only asshole in heaven. It's just poetry right there. I know. You say you're criticizing the dialogue and yet that's one of the best written lines of the 80s. It's strong.

They at least have that to hold on to. All right. The Chris Ryan thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How to take a word? Do you have one? Because I have one. I do have one. You want me to go first? Yeah, go ahead.

All right, I'm going to give you my hottest take in the form of stalker power rankings, okay? And the headline hottest take is that the worst stalker of the four, I'm just going to do the main four. The worst stalker is Fireball, Jim Brown. He's a terrible, terrible stalker. You know he is because none of the contestants in the audience pick him. They never want Fireball. He doesn't catch up to Amber and Richards when he's like 20 feet behind him. He doesn't hurt any.

He doesn't kill any. He's alive for 10 seconds and then turns into a bitch when his gas line goes. So Jim Brown loved him as a football player way before we were born. We're stalker. I have Dynamo 3. By the way, weird that he would have wanted to be in the movie. It's like, you're going to be fireball. Oh, what do I get to do?

Well, you have a fire gun and you're just going to suck and then die. Yeah, you don't get any good lines. You don't kill anybody. There's also this weird part, Jim, where with Jim Brown where I don't know if it's a fuck-up by Dawson, but as he's chasing him, he goes, there he goes, the number one rusher. And I was like, hold on. Jim Brown was the number one rusher of all time, but that's not Jim Brown and Peyton passed him in 84. So I don't even know what the fuck he's talking about.

It was a weird slip-off. Yeah, there's some sort of edit where they must have said something about him. Yeah, it's good. So anyway, I got Dynamo 3. Sub-zero, I have it too. Sub-zero fucks them up a lot, knocks Arnold unconscious. He doesn't get the kill. It's like the fantasy player who gets a lot of receiving yards, but no touch.

He also has that cool exploding hockey puck. And then I got Buzzsaw. Buzzsaw has a kill. He fucks up Arnold for a long time, drags him around the thing. But listen, the take is that Fireball Jim Brown's stalker, who Jim Brown the legend, is, I think, the worst one. And if you're worse than Dynamo, you suck. Great take. I have no notes.

My hottest take, this premise as a video game, and they did have a video game that came out in 1989. It wasn't good. Smash TV. This should have been Grand Theft Auto. This is one of the great missed opportunities for video games and the history of video games. I don't understand why the running man video game wasn't just incredible. Why they didn't take the premise of this. You're shooting me into this underground world where I have to fight off these stalkers.

Each stalker has an identity. I've got to try to get back to kill the game show host. I've got to get through levels. Oh, I died. I got to start. This had all of the bones of one of the best video games we ever would have had. I don't know how they fucked it up. That's a great call.

My son's obsessed with Fortnite. Fortnite starts with you parachute onto this island. Yeah, same premise. Totally. Into this war zone. And you collect weapons and there's other people trying to kill you. I also used to like parts of video games like GoldenEye back in the day. There'd be missions where there was someone with you who was kind of helpless like Amber is.

And you have to protect them in the mission and make sure if they don't take enough damage, that would be part of this too. That'd be a great game, the running man, like a real game. I don't know why they fucked it up. All right. We'd take one more break. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business.

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Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills.

Taking Zepbound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99-79 or visit Zepbound. dot lily.com. All right, casting what ifs. Christopher Reeve was attached to play Ben Richards. And when he was involved, it was a way darker movie where it was basically the premise

was closer to the book, but it was about an unemployed man who goes on a game show that's super violent. And it's basically you have to be on this show for 30 days. And that's how he could feed his family. and then when sports Stanger became involved started flipping to what the movie became.

Christopher Reeve I do think he could have been in a cool mid-80s action movie. He had the physique. I think he could have done the one-liners. I'm not against it. This was the one that shocked me.

They had a director for this movie who was fired after two weeks. A director that we love. Andrew Davis. Oh, that's the man. guy from the fugitive, the guy from under siege. Our guy, Andrew Davis. Fired after two weeks.

Oh, that movie would have been way better. Schwarzenegger called it a terrible decision. And then this is the other one that blew my mind. Dawson wasn't the original choice for Damon Killian. It was Chuck Woolery from Love Connection. I like Woolery. He's good, but I don't know if he's never acted in anything. Like Dawson actually was an actor.

Yeah. Willery was always just so tan. He had that gold watch and he was so cool. I could see him being an evil dick if he pulled it off. Yeah. Well, he couldn't do it. He was unavailable. Listen, this is in the research. Arnold suggested Richard Dawson because he was close friends with Richard Dawson. Is that true? Those two dogs were friends? Oh, my God. They met in a club where you just like open-mouth kissed random woman in the club. with no repercussions. New category just for this episode.

What do we got? Add one character from any other movie to make this movie better. And I'm just going to start us off by adding bowl from over the top. I'm just replacing Dynamo slash Figaro with Bull from over the top. And his gimmick is arm wrestling. He tries to get, he tries to get, what's his face into like some sort of arm wrestling battle where he can like break his arm basically.

But I feel like Bull from over the top is kind of a better realization of all these stalkers. Like he had that person I'm gonna wear it. Like just, I don't know.

I think it would have worked. Bull Hurley is basically just buzzsaw. I wouldn't be surprised those guys were related. Those are the guys. Yeah. All right.

If I'm going to add someone then I'm going to add the three breasted woman from Total Recall to put her in there somewhere. Yeah, we needed her. Best that guy award. So, So, Damon Killian's right-hand guy in this, his name is Kurt Fowler, who eventually became

Vince McMahon and No Holds Bard. I didn't know what his name was until I looked it up, but I always knew him as the Vince McMahon proxy guy. I love him in No Holds Barred. I think of him in Wayne's World. Give me the flashlight. Wayne's World. And he played the same thing.

He's a director as he is in this movie. I think I looked at that guy in the second he came out. I'm like, well, there's that guy. Easily that guy. And he's always a TV executive or some sort of, some sort of, e-we. TV executive. He also plays a dick in Ghostbusters 2.

He's always that sniveling little ass and he is here too. Tony. Dionne Waiters Award. Dynamo probably not. Swen, he's out because he couldn't even deliver his one line.

Sub-zero gets a little more interesting. I like this gimmick. Buzzsaw. But I think the winner is the old lady who can pick anyone she chooses

and she chooses Ben Richards because he's one mean motherfucker. I think that's the winner. In the edited version that would play on TNT, she would say, he's one mean mound of flesh. And I think Mrs. McCartle's there. I have one other one. And there's a guy in this movie who I think deserves some credit. He has one line and every time he says that I get an adrenaline rush.

This is him hitting an 80-footer and then sitting back down. After Mrs. McCartle picks Ben Richards, they go to the Fandululul guys outside and the guy who goes, $200 on Richards! $200 on Richard! Come on man! And he gives it, all right, you want it, you got it. I love $200 on Richards guy. He fucking goes for it, and he has balls, and every time I play that scene, I, like, I cheer for that guy.

And then he wins 20 grand. Right. Good bet. I like that guy. Mrs. McArto is the one that stood out to me. She cooks. Recasting Couch director or city. I mean, I wish we had Andrew Davis as the director.

So Arnold escapes with those two other guys. One's Yafakoto. The other one's like an accountant kind of whiz. No personality in the guy. I don't really know his name. He never worked. His name was Marvin J. Weiss. Okay.

That's the character's name, right? Can I talk you into either Anthony Michael Hall or Robert Downey Jr. In that spot? Where are we at with Downey in 87? Downey is a year after back to school with Rodney Dangerfield. He's available.

he's in Johnny Be Good with Anthony Michael Hall like he would be psyched to be in an Arnold movie fucking fantastic when he's reciting that code 17 17 for he'd be like doing his early Tony Stark stuff get daddy in there I don't know if you can insure him but sure great

would you rather have Tony Romo or Chris Collinsworth for director's commentary of this movie well there's a lot of action and I mean I think it has to be Romo I really do I think especially for the fights There's a lot of upsets because Richards is upset and everybody. So give me Romo. And I think he's like,

here we go, Jim. He's going to saw his nuts and half Jim. Oh my God, Buzzas couldn't have Jim! And absolutely awesome. I'm into it. He's back on the set, Jim. He's going to get Killian. Half internet research. You mentioned the remake is coming. The screenwriter, Stephen E. DeSuzza,

wrote 15 drafts of the script. I don't know if that's a record. when Arnold ran for governor, his campaign bus was named the running man. Oh, my God. We mentioned Paul. Updwell. What do you got for a body count in this movie? You had to guess.

How many dead bodies? I'm going to say 40 dead bodies. 32. 32. Apex Mountain. Arnold, not yet, but we're getting closer. It's got to be that terminator to. Yeah, total recall. We're close. He's setting it up. Richard Dawson, I'm going to say no.

Because I really do think it was probably when Match Game and Family Feud were on at the same time. There was no follow-up to this. He didn't get further movies. He didn't go off a run or something. This is his last movie. He's done. Is that because he had health problems or just didn't want to do it? I think he might have health problems. I mean, you can't discount the amount of cigarettes. Everybody was smoking back then. In the movie alone, he's constantly smoking. Jesse the Body Ventura, I'm going to say yes. Because he's the announcer for WrestleMania 3 the same year, the greatest WrestleMania of all time.

He's the biggest, probably other than John Madden, the biggest announcer we have for sports and fake sports. And then he's in, Predator and this movie. Like, it really felt like bigger things were going to happen for him. Well, here's the question. Is it bigger to be the play-by-play for WrestleMania 3 or to literally be the governor of Minnesota, which is bigger.

It's a good call. So you think governor of Minnesota for him? Well, I don't know. He's pretty famous. Like everybody, you know, between wrestling and the running man, I don't know. It's good battle.

Yathakoto, I mean, it's probably homicide or one of those. Yeah, one of those cops. I didn't watch those shows, but I know of them. His movie thing for me, he's a lot of great movies, but Midnight Run is,

That's one of the great. It always comes back to that. I know you love that movie. It's awesome. Futuristic action movies? I don't think so. I think Roboccus are better. It's got to be Terminator 2 or Total Recall.

Yeah, those are better. This is just a little more fun. How about the Maserati, Quattroporto, Ill Stretch Limo? Was that the limo? Or the three, it was the number, is the Maserati, Quadraporti three, stretch limo? That's what Dawson gets out of. That's fucking awesome. 80s movies always had a cool limo with that like boomerang looking antenna on the back.

They had to get a limo in. Crocodile Dundee has a cool limo. They all did. Fake reality TV shows that predicted the future, definitely. Yeah. And then the marriage of Figaro sung by Dynamo. I don't know if it's ever been done better. He says clap if you love.

And then he electrifies it and it says Dynamo and he's an opera singer. It's incredible. Well, you haven't been on the pod since we added this category, which is the, the, Best category we've had a couple years. Cruise or Hanks? Is this movie better if Cruz or Hanks is in the lead role? Well, I mean, it's literally called the running man. I think it has to be Cruz.

That's all he fucking does this run. Yeah, Cruz. He's up 4-2 now since we started this category. Is he? Cruise in this movie would have been absolutely unbelievably hilarious. Him in the jumpsuit, him running, him being upset that he's being framed for the Bakersfield Massacre. Negative sexual tension with Maria

Conchito Alonzo absolutely. But on that scene where Richards runs on the tarmac, cruise would be absolutely fucking flying. Yeah, definitely not a Hank's movie. Racehorse, rock band, wrestler or fantasy team name. I'll give you Sub-Zero, Dynamo,

or the Bakersfield Butchers. I guess you have Captain Freedom's workout, I guess would be the... I've also had a fantasy team name called Whitman Price and Haddad. I'll go last season's losers for sure. I think they drafted Dominic Davis number four overall.

It didn't work out for the boys. All right. Pickin' Nits. Arnold's name in this movie is Ben Richards. Yeah. We always get into this with him. In Commando, his name is John Matrix. What the fuck are you talking about?

He's Austrian. Is this the least realistic Arnold name of any on the movie, though? Ben Richards? I mean, listen, it's like just the AI decided the name. John Matrix, though, is like you're just going with Matrix because Matrix is a cool word. Yeah. I've tried to think

of some more. Ben Richards is tough, though. That's not a Ben Richards. So Ben Richards murders 60 unarmed people in Bakersfield allegedly. Yes. No death sentence, no electric chair, just let's throw them in the Wilson detention center. That's right. 60 murders?

Yes. The Running Man Game Show works flawlessly for years. It's the biggest, most important game show ever, and all of the stalkers just have just been crushing it. And Ben Richards comes in and just kills everybody in one show. Nobody else was able to kick ass like this? Well, my take is that I think that Captain Freedom originally was a contest. I think he was a runner because he comes in and says,

I was killing guys like this with my bare hands three years ago. I think he was a runner and killed. guys and he took the Killian offer when he says do you want to become a stalker so i think there's a backstory there i hesitate to this as a nitpick but the deep fake stuff that they do when he murders amber and uh ben richards it's not even in 2024 as good in real life right now not even close you wouldn't be able to do that at all and then uh just the ending how did they get back up to the tv studio so easily because he gets shot into the bowels of hell for like five minutes and then just gets right back up to the ground.

No idea. How? They jog through some boiler room and then they're there. Like it takes them five seconds. It's true. What do you have for nitpicks? Anything? Yeah.

This is wheelhouse for you. So the guy says 200 on Richards and they say, you want it, you got it. And they put Richards up at 100 to one odds to win 100 to 1 after he's just killed a few different stalkers. why is he a hundred to one underdog against fireball? What are the odds there? I don't know. It doesn't make sense at all.

Yeah, so they just didn't know how to do odds back then. Terrible. Like that should have been a gambling consultant on set being like, whoa, and then the guy bets $200, so he makes $20,000 on the Richards killing fireball. The odds are out of control completely. We also have to talk about Amber's character arc. Like the last six minutes,

she goes from this terrified, quivering woman in the game zone, She changes her clothes into a fucking vest and gets an oozy. And she becomes like edge of tomorrow, Emily Blunt. I don't know what happened. And Bill, she wants to have sex with Arnold. He's like, where did you hide that record? And she's like, none of your business, big boy. She's been through the most heroin experience of her life in the last 36 hours.

I'm all for character arc. I can't buy that shit. No way. Come on. Yeah, they really pushed it with her. I actually had that improbably in answerable questions. Okay. Where did she hide the Bakersfield raw video?

I have some ideas. Like, wow. She really wanted to keep that thing. Jesus. But listen, on the topic of the Bakersfield raw video, this is what Picking Knits was invented for. When they, the raw video, the angles and the camera shots are like from outside the helicopter. Right.

It's directed by Stanley Kubrick. Yeah. It's like they look. amazing. One of them is even a POV shot of Richards. This doesn't make any fucking sense. Right. It would be like three like surveillance videos from far away of, yeah, you're right. It's a good call. It's bad. I also like when they have the cabinet of videos and it's like Bakersfield, raw massacres. Like, would you really label it that way? It's like from an Austin Powers movie. It's really bad. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. I'm actually

good with the sequel. I'd be interested to see where it goes, especially with stuff that's happened in the last 10 years, deep fakes, reality. Like, it's time. It's not like this is not a masterpiece this movie as much as we love it. I'd like the sequel. I would like the prequel. And I think the prequel would be the rise of Killian and how he took the show over and created and we would see Young Captain Freedom. The only other idea I have for the show, there's this movie that I wish they had gone with. We have this weird thing where Richards goes to his brother's apartment and he's like Edward and his brother's named Ed Richards and then he's like oh he was taken away for re-education you never hear about him you never mentioned him again what if in the middle

of the movie Richard's brother was one of the stalkers and they had turned him into like a fucking monster and like Jake Paul Logan Paul they have to fight definitely it's like the Paul brother Edge Undertaker yeah they should have done that missed opportunity would you rather the sequel was a movie or like an eight episode Netflix show I just give me a fucking movie. Yeah. There's been enough shows. Movie.

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treos, Sam Jackson, J.T. Welsh, Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, Evil Laughing, Ramon Raymond, or Philip Bicker Hall. I think Sam Jackson would have helped this movie. Where? What do we got? So you're talking late 80s, Sam Jackson before things had really taken off. So he's probably not in the movie that much. But maybe he's the third guy that escapes with Coughlin and Arnold.

Or maybe he's a sidekick for Killian or I just think he adds a little energy. It's a very white movie. It's time to start running, motherfuckers! They could have dialed him up, so I vote for Sam. Just won Oscar who gets it. The answer has to be Dawson, right? Could Dawson have been, I looked it up. Could he have snagged the best supporting nom?

It was killers that year. Connery wins for Untouchables. What do you got? You have the list? I think it's killers. I don't think Connery for Untouchables Albert Brooks

for broadcast news who's going to win almost every other year Morgan Freeman and Streetsmar playing a Pissor playing a P, it was like his breakout movie

Denzel and Cry Freetam and then Vincent Gardini and Moodstruck and then we've done this year with some other movies and there were some other bangers for this category so probably not

but it would have been cool I mean he definitely had a huge ovation at the Oscars they would have the Oscar speech probably an answerable question Do you have any?

Because I have four. I asked the one already, do you think this will ever happen? We kind of covered that. If you got four, let's hear him. Let's go. A running man remake.

Who's Fireball? It's got to be a football player. Marshawn Lynch. Oh, I didn't have him. That's great. Yeah, Marshawn. So I had Ray Lewis maybe too old. That's good.

And do you want Ray Lewis trying to kill somebody in a movie? Maybe not. He's out on that. Then I was thinking, Aaron Donald, freshly retired Aaron Donald as he's got that weird Aaron Donald body like he's very kind of stocky

muscular he'd look good in the outfit but I like the Marshawn Lynch I think that's a good call I like Aaron Donald is Ben Richards like let's just go let's make him a star like let's make him the fucking lead Marsha I think it could be cool that's a good question

where was the set for the running man I know L.A. way better than you I was thinking it's probably downtown It looks like downtown. But you could also tell me it was like Hollywood, like Hollywood Boulevard. We never really know. I think it's CBS Radford. They put it right there under Ventura.

It's an old studio. I think that works too. Where did Amber hide the Bakersfield raw video? Definitely in Orifice. And I don't think it was her. I think the butt is, you know. Although I just watched Shot Collar where Shot Caller was just hiding stuff left and right. So I don't know.

We'll never know. All right. As long as we're going to talk about orifices, here's my unanswerable. And there's a lot of chatter about this online. Did Arnold and Maria Conchita make love during this film? Yes or definitely yes. Oh, in real life? There's a lot of theories about it.

A lot of pictures of them. I don't know if they were married at the time. I don't want to mess with that. But I've heard it was a fun shoot. I don't know. That's just what I heard. He's an irresistible guy. Yeah.

I mean, look at her. Did Ben and Amber actually go to Hawaii? no that that could have been would you have tagged on a little three minute ending of them just like trading places style on like on some beach with with fancy drinks i'm not against it i would do it like running scared when billy d and gregory hines go to key west and they're just roller skating and drinking drinks and oh my god one of the best 10 minutes of any movie that's so good what do you have for best double feature choice of this movie well we just mentioned uh the very talented Maria Conchita Alonso.

I'm going to go with her, and I'm going to go with Predator 2. Predator 2, which is against the Jamaican voodoo possees and the predator and Danny Glover. And I'm into that with Maria Conchita. I like her. That's what they tried to go, instead of Big Star, they tried to go bullpen by committee with Glover as the star,

but he was on the Arnold's dog. Bill Paxton's in there. Yeah, it was admirable. Yeah, they were like instead of spending 20 million on one guy will try to get $5 million on, they took a shot. The Indian Red Zawane Award would happen the next day. Does Ben Richards get a show? Does the Ben Richards show happen?

Look, I think they're all rounded up and put in camp and immediately killed. Like, I think it's not going to go well. I'll ask you, Bill, would you give Ben a pod? I mean, there's no question. What's the Ben Richards' pod? He just have one-liners for things. He'd do news stories. It would be like the old Jay Lido Tonight Show Model X.

All right, this is tough. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? Yeah. I'll give you, you could have the Cadre Cola bottle, just one of the bottles. The Running Man Home Game, which they show. Sure. Or the actual set-worn hate boat poster. Yeah.

Well, I know you already had the menu from understead. siege that Casey Rabak has, so you could put the hate boat right next to that. Listen, I would go with a game-worn yellow suit, maybe. I would go to applaud if you love Dynamo, but I'd change it to Kyle. I'm going to the, I need a VHS copy of Captain Freedom's workout, and I want to do it unironically in my house. It's my favorite part of the movie. That's what I would go with.

Okay. Coach Finstock will wear a best life lesson. Deepfakes, dangerous, even in 1987. It's got to be careful. You can get accused of a 60-person murder. and then who won the movie? Let's go. I think it's Dawson.

I think it's Dawson. I know it's hard to not give it to Arnold. Arnold won the one predator earlier in the year. He's going to win a lot more movies. I think you're walking out in the lobby of the movie theater. You're like, fucking Richard Dawson was awesome in that movie. Who knew? I'm going Dawson.

I'm going. So the case would be Arnold's had a lot of movies. As you laid out, this is probably not one of his, five best movies and Predator overshattered it even the same year. Didn't make a shitload of money. Didn't put him in a better place. Dawson was match game, family feud Hogan Heroes guy who all of a sudden this became like kind of his legacy in a lot of ways.

And he's much better in the movie than Arnold. Let's give it to Dawson. Let's do it. We'll give it to Dawson. Let's do it, Bill. Sorry, Arnold. Awesome. I love it.

All right. Craig Horlbeck, our producer had never seen this movie, didn't know what it was. And we just sprung it on him. and now we're going to get his take. I love the 80s, man. There's so many decisions that were made in 10 seconds in this movie. Again, climbing for dollars. The cash climb, climbing for cash, there's so many.

Anyway, I think this is the most rewatchable Arnold movie outside of The Terminator. Great. I always think that whenever we do one of these, I'm like, I've probably already seen the craziest 80s action movie. And then you guys hit me with another. that I'm not convinced this movie wasn't just like a mad lib that they just filled out in an hour

The whole decade The whole decade of the 80s Is in the Tyson zone Anything could happen in these movies And I'm like completely believing it Why were the 80s so obsessed with dystopia Like escape from New York And they live and Blade Runner?

Why? Why? Just cocaine. It's really early explanation I don't really know what the other explanations are It was like the 80s where all the children who were now grown up writing movies and writing books and stuff. But in the 60s, I think science fiction was bigger and what was out there and just the imagination of things. Maybe that was part of it.

But other than that, cocaine. Is there another reason, Kyle? I think they finally started to figure out some special effects too. And so that helped a lot. So like some palatable special effects. And I think it was contrast. Like, you know, the movies and the music was all about, let's party and let's like spend money and like get ladies and do blow. And then like the movies would go dark. And I think that people were looking for an escape. So you do something like that looks like Blade Runner or looks like this. Like it's just like a cool escape from like this weird bizarre overbloded 80s. That's my take. You guys know I love like sleazy 80s producer choices in movies. Unnecessary nudity. I do think that Amber doing situps in a nightgown like lingerie piece is a top five unnecessary producer choice. of the 80s.

Fantastic. That is a category that we've never added, but we probably should be a category. I love it. But what you mentioned, Kyle, I do think it's why I like. There's something about 80s movies

that there's something oddly satisfying about, they're so like mechanical and tactile. Everything has a lever or a pulley. It's very satisfying to watch. It is a real set that's really crudely built, but there is something about it that is oddly comforting

watching these movies now. Why do you think the cheesy one-liners went away? I think there was an earnestness back then that it wouldn't play now. You couldn't write the line and get it read. The cheesiness doesn't play because I think there's too much self-awareness now. I don't know what. I don't know that we're all connected online. Things would just get destroyed immediately back then.

It was like only word of mouth is pretty much the only way you could like discuss a movie and like spread the popularity of a movie. I think it's all about self-awareness. I think we're just like too turned around and all that now. Yeah, I felt like. like that was an issue with the Roadhouse remake, which I watched. I, you know, I finished it. It's fine, but it wasn't that much fun. And I didn't think Jalenhall was that much fun in it. And then when Connor McGregor came in, did you see it, Kyle?

I watched the whole thing. And he's so over the top, but self-aware over the top. And I just, it just didn't totally work for me. It was weird because he was overplaying it. And Jillen Hall's whole thing was the underplay everything. So the chemistry was weird. I just think, though, Craig, like on the one-liners, it's not an 80s thing. Like, through the whole 90s, like, Pierce Brosden was doing huge ones on all those James Bond movies. Like, he's doing them just like, he has sex with a woman named Christmas. And then he goes, I thought Christmas only came once a year.

Like, he was doing that shit well into the late 90s. That would hold up today. That's not that. That's amazing. But it wasn't just an 80s thing. It's just now the second you do that, everyone makes fun of you instantly. I think you're right. Yeah, I wonder if fast and furious in that whole,

franchise kind of ended it because they stopped. They didn't have those. It just kind of moved into a different. What was funny about it was the producers figuring out ways to make Vin Diesel act earnestly and do monologues about families. And it was like almost they're tricking the actors. Well, and what's funny is like one-liners still are very, very popular.

Like cheesy puns kill on Twitter. Like you quote, retweet something with some stupid pun and it gets like 100,000 likes. So it is still very popular online, but there's something about it translating to movies. that doesn't exist now. We might not have the right actors either. I mean, everything's funnier when Arnold says anything,

and I don't know how many actors we have like that now, right? When he says the lines that aren't little jokes, he's terrible. Like, the only ones he really gets are the ones that are the dumb jokes. Like, how about the light? But when he says, fuck you, which anybody could say, he can't do it. Yeah. Also, you got a movie. Killian, terrible GM.

He sees Arnold and goes, yeah, I want this guy on my show. not even considering once that he could take down all of the stalkers. That's a Terry Fontenopinopennix level decision right now. I like it. Look at you, pulling from the headlines. Look at you. That was great. All right, Kyle Brandt, I had a great time.

Always, bud. I'm sure we'll see you at some point before we hit the summer. We'll do. There's a lot left. I got to say, I was making a whole list of 80s, early 90s. And, you know, even we haven't done one like a running scared type. but even that is like just kind of sitting there. There's some fertile ground left, is my point.

There's a lot of meat on the bone. I was in Detroit, Michigan this last weekend. I'm walking down the street. A lion's fan screams in me. Kyle, Kyle! And I go, yeah, he goes, what's the movie? And I go, what the fuck you target? What's the movie?

And he goes, I guess Bill, you had said it's an action movie. Like, and he's like, what's the movie? Is it out for justice? And I was like, oh, no, it's the running man. Yeah, fuck you. I love you, man. Like, this isn't Detroit the day of the draft. They just, they're all about it.

So thank you, fans. There's a lot more we could do. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, Craig. All right. Kyle Brand, great to see you. Enjoy your vacation. Craig Horlebeck, thanks as always.

We will see you next week on the rewatchables.