The Rewatchables - 'The Social Network' With Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: May 24, 2018

With their hoodies and f***-you flip-flops, HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan “aren’t coming back for 30 percent”—they are coming back to recap and celebrate 2010's ‘The Social Network,’ starring Jesse Eisenberg, Andrew Garfield, and Justin Timberlake; directed by David Fincher; and written by Aaron Sorkin. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everyone, it's Bill Simmons. Before we get started, I want to let you know that you were listening to one of six classic episodes of the rewatchables, a podcast that's been around for the last few years. And if you're listening on any platform other than Spotify, you can only hear the last 60 days of new rewatchables episodes, plus these six classics, the Godfather, heat, the social network, old school, jaws, and the town. But for the entire archive, go to Spotify, where you can listen to every episode for free.

Today's episode of the rewatchables is brought to you by SeatGeek. Seatgeek is the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more for $20 off your first Seatgeekkeek purchase on any game or sporting event. All you have to do is use promo code rewatch. Download the Seatgeek app or go right to Seatgeek.com. Welcome to The Rwatchables. We will be doing 20 episodes of these over the next 20 weeks or so. It's a new season, like a TV season.

Yeah. And the first one we're doing is social network because working with Chris Ryan is like dating a stumraster. Here you go. How do you manage to get all girls to hate us? I think I've come up with something. That looks good. That looks really good.

Welcome to Facebook. Yeah, groupies. This is our time. We're being accused of breaching security. We stole our website. Violating individual privacy, Let's gut the murder. Doesn't anybody have a sense of humor?

The Social Network, rated PG-13. All right, 20 episodes. We have carefully picked these movies. We wanted some consistency. People like the rewatchable. Sean Fantasy's here. Chris Ryan is here.

Bill! We're back. I don't know who Eduardo is out of the three of us. Not me. We'll find out. Because we'll find out by the end of this podcast. I'm a classic Dustin, you know? You're kind of teal-esque, I would say.

Oh, man. Teal. We've been circling this because the Zuckerberg stuff was really heating up. And the social network, which is a movie that the three of us really truly loved, has now taking on a different context. Yes. As Facebook became one of the most powerful media forces we've ever had, that it actually affected the election.

It is a dominant force for us for content, almost like the NBA playoffs. We write about it, and it changes and it ebbs and it flows. So when this movie was made in 2010, Facebook had 500 million users and a valuation of 25 billion. I don't know what the valuation is now, but it's a lot more than that way. Significantly more. It's like 250, 300 billion. And they have to have like, they probably have 10 times as much as anything. Facebook, it's bigger than we ever imagined.

It's scarier than we ever imagined. It's more potent than we ever imagined. Has this affected how you watched this movie in 2018? I'll tell you what, this is going to be probably unique among rewatchables movies in that if we had done this three months ago, I think it would have been a different podcast. But to rewatch this this weekend even, not only to see the stuff that has hints of the Cambridge Analytica scandal and all the privacy stuff that we will obviously talk about in this, but also the articulation of a certain kind of like internet behavior that I think has probably become really prevalent. And we're starting to really pathologize in terms of people. people's like just doing things for a reaction, just doing things to stir things up, not really caring about the impact it has on other people and just sort of doing it to conjure up, to elicit a reaction. And also the conflict between Eduardo and Mark, I didn't really notice the first few times around about Eduardo's desire to monetize Facebook to make it an advertising

platform. And we know how that eventually ended, that battle ended up, even though Eduardo wasn't on the other side when they eventually started making Facebook what it is today, which is the largest advertising platform in the world. And you left out the Me Too aspect of this, where this whole thing starts because he's pissed off at his girlfriend and goes home and creates this whole app to rate women against each other and just basically demean women. And that leads to Facebook. Yeah, it's predicated upon trolling.

It's like a sexual indecency. And the fact that they withheld their ability to make money for a long time, which then led to them becoming more powerful than we ever could. have guessed. It's really strange to watch it now. Right. I mean, even if you allow for great liberties in terms of the accuracy, I think as a, if you just look it as a

parable, it has been proven to be true this movie. You know what I mean? It may or may not have, the inciting incident of Facebook may or may not have been a breakup, but I think that a lot of the truths in this movie have proven themselves out, you know? Well, there's a whole conversation we need to have

about whether it matters that this is a movie that has now become people watching, they think this is what happened with Facebook. And it's so far from what happened with Facebook. And there's a lot of, was this true? Was that not true? But there's a lot of stuff that we just know isn't true in this movie. And does that matter?

Not one bit. Does it matter for you, fantasy? I think it matters if we use this as a historical record and a lot of people do. Well, I think that's what's happened with all the president's men. Yes. Which is a movie that in real life was completely different than the actual movie. But now I feel like that was Watergate. Yeah.

And I think in fairness to this moment. movie in particular, Aaron Sorkin was always very straightforward about the fact that he was never a user of Facebook and didn't ultimately really understand it. It seemed like he really clicked with the Ben Mesrich novel that the story's based on. Yeah. And that he spun that up into something a little bit more grand in his own. And those guys were writing their pieces contemporaneously so that they basically were trading notes, but essentially were drawing from some of the same research. Yeah. Did, uh, when this movie was coming out and you said they were making it off the Ben Mezzarick novel, and then you find out Sorkin's attached and Finchers attached.

What are your expectations at that point? 2010 Miami Heat? I mean, it's an insane collision of things I'm interested in. I remember specifically going to an early screening of a movie that Aaron Sorkin hosted, and then he did a long Q&A afterwards, and I saw the movie with my wife, and she could not give less of a shit about Aaron Sorkin, and I was wrapped afterwards. Like, the movie ended, I raised both arms. I was like, yes, we have made one.

And then we watched the Q&A and I was totally enthralled and really fascinated. And I really did. It came, like, it delivered. Yeah. This movie really does deliver on what your expectations are. And that's very rare movies of the last 10 years. And behind him in front of the camera, like you hear the story of the making of this movie is very much like Sorkin wrote a script nominally based on a book that hadn't been published yet. Fincher got the script on a Friday, read it on a Saturday.

The movie was like a go movie on a Monday. It's Amy Pascal producing it with Scott Rudin. like they got the cast together. There's not a lot of casting what ifs or they almost did this but didn't do that. It was like they got the people they wanted to be in it. They figured out how to make it. And it is largely the script.

I mean, they shot the script. And this is, I think, so many different people at the top of their, not even like the top of their games, like the top of their potential. It's kind of astonishing to watch. 162 page screenplay. Sorkin 1 for Best Adapt. It's been eight years.

King's Speech just did really well on that Oscars. He sure did. Eight years later, we're looking at King Speech won best picture, Tom Hooper, best director, Colin Firth, best actor over Eisenberg, who Eisenberg gets better each year with this movie, and in about 10 years it's going to be unacceptable that it didn't win the Oscar. Hooper over Fincher is a sin. A sin. Yeah, it's awful.

I mean, Tom Hooper, who has gone on to nothing meaningful as far as I'm concerned, David Fincher, who's one of the 10 most important filmmakers last 20 years. That's brutal. This is also last 35. Social Network is the Crown Me movie. It's there's, everything about it is like, just give me the frigging award. Like I made a movie that's about today that is a, like has humor and entertainment and thrills, but is completely grounded in this human drama.

It's a Hollywood movie. Give me the award. I think it might be the one of, maybe the two or three last great prestige, mainstream. movie studio movies with a real budget and real stars and a real star director and a star screenwriter that we've had. I mean, there are very few examples of it in the last 10 years that go beyond this. And it's weird that all the president's men cleaned up and this didn't because it was basically the same type of movie for its decade about something that was really important in the moment. And I'm not sure what happened. I think this was after they expanded the categories.

I think there's a dark truth to it, which is that the power of Harvey Weinstein was still strong with the King's Beach. I mean, he still wasn't, he still was an incredible negotiator inside the academy at that time. And that was kind of one of his final, final acts when he was still had all that power. King speech was fine.

It's okay. I'll never watch it again. Yeah. I enjoyed the screener. I remember I watched it. But I remember in the moment. And I probably even have a podcast back there on the old BS report of just

being kind of astonished that just didn't do better. Yeah. And that sort, the Sorkan thing was basically the consolation prize. It did really, well as a movie made 225 worldwide. Sean 96 on Rotten Tomatoes. Don't care.

I know you don't care. It means nothing. And now we're almost at the end of the decade here. Does 2020 count that counts for next decade? Yep. A year and a half left there.

Yeah. Was this the best movie of the decade? Ooh, that's a tough one. It's in the conversation. It's in the conversation. I think that it definitely has brought on a new weight in the last year.

And I re-watching it, I was just really blown away. There are a couple of critical quotes out there about decade-defining movie. And I think that was a little bit premature when those quotes were thrown out there. But I definitely think there's an argument for it at this point. I think when I think about decade-defining movies, I think about movies that meant one thing when they came out and were awesome and respected. And then as time unfolds, other meanings start coming in. and it kind of evolves.

And you've even seen that. All the President's Men, which was really one of my 20 favorite movies ever and was 20 years ago. And now these last three years has taken on a completely different meeting when you watch it. Yep.

I think that's going to happen with this movie. We don't know what's going to happen with Facebook. And we don't know there might be five more terrible stories coming. I think even in spite of Sorkin skepticism about this whole enterprise, Fincher having like one of the darkest

course of any filmmaker of all time. And the fact that this is still a pretty serious and dour story, it still doesn't really totally get to the dark heart of Facebook. I mean, when the movie ends, you don't feel like, well, this is the mammoth media evolution that is going to

change the way we live. It's a story, it's a success story. But I don't think any of us saw that in 2010. No, that's what I'm saying. I mean, it's basically becomes... We had the Myspace Shadow still a little bit there. Where it's like, eh, who knows? This could break away in five years. And also, I think, you're meant to have, maybe not sympathy for Mark Zuckerberg, but you're meant to think about him

as a human being at the end, that he's like a lonely, sad boy who let one get away because of his own ego and his own ambition and his own inability to see beyond himself. I don't think that that's really the takeaway of this movie at all anymore. Yeah, I think that there's an interesting conversation that happens, especially between Sean Parker and Mark and Eduardo throughout the movie about it's cool. And that's what it has going for it. And you can't put a price on that. And I think for all the things Facebook has become, it's decidedly not cool anymore. So it's interesting to look at it as this time capsule for when it felt like a really new, fresh thing. Well, and also when a billion dollars really seemed like a big thing, that word

gets thrown around with sports franchises, tech companies, all this stuff. A billion dollars, I don't know what that. I think if they made that movie now, I think that line's a little bit different. He'd be like, what if it's worth a hundred billion dollars? A billion. A billion. A billion. million hours. It would like bounce off Mark Zuckerberg in 2018. But I think the essence of the movie is essentially about, I mean, there's a lot of different, you know, it's about the American dream and it's about class consciousness and it's about ambition.

But it's ultimately that this thing that was ostensibly supposed to bring people together was made by someone who had incredible social issues and, in fact, probably didn't like people very much. Yeah. And was not able to, in his real life, have friends. And that he created this thing that on the surface, was supposed to bring us all closer together, but was driven by these sort of deep-seated emotions

that were actually hostile towards humanity and hostile towards people's integrity and people's privacy and people's reputations. And that is actually bearing itself out. And that is, I think, an unintentional piece of wisdom from the movie. Well, and it's also not what actually happened. It doesn't seem like. Yeah, but I kind of sometimes like the print of legend.

It's almost like Sorkin's vision of what happened became the vision of what's actually happening. But in real life, Zuckerberg, there's a story about how he took his staff to see it and was almost like amused by how off it was. But he was like, they did get how I dressed. That was how I dressed back then. But he's basically like, I didn't start Facebook because of a girl. I started because I like building stuff.

And I was, I like coding. And I was home on a whatever night and all this other stuff. Now that Rudy Marasine is iconic at the beginning. And that didn't happen. And that person probably doesn't exist. Yeah, I mean, it's plausible that he had a girlfriend in college and that there was some measure of truth to it, but that it wasn't the driving force. It wasn't a he had a bad day. He went home that night and was like, yeah, yeah, right.

Yeah. And I think the thing that's interesting, though, and the thing that makes me a little dubious of his denials is the fact that he has spent the last eight years working very hard to make it clear that he isn't that guy. That he's friendly, that he's a family man, that he's a husband, that he's a considerate CEO and leader. He's an alien. By all accounts, he was trying to, he was going to run for president before this happens. Until, yeah, Dalitica, yes. Well, and then the other thing. Not the dad would disqualify him at this point, but still.

I remember a criticism of this movie when it came out that it was too hard on Zuckerberg. Yes. That he's a kid, man. He was in college. And he just like, what were you like when you're in college? Didn't you make mistakes? This movie makes him out to be a villain. They went too far.

And now you're watching it. They didn't go far enough. One of the criticisms of that company in the last three or four years, and particularly in the last nine months has just been that these people just really didn't understand truly how powerful the tool they had built was. And you get that sense even in this movie that there's something growing, even when he's this sort of snarling, sniveling kid across the table from somebody who's negotiating for the future of his company, you don't totally get the sense that they're thinking about owning the future of the world. They're thinking about owning the future of this company

they built. And there's a big difference. This idea that was worth a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. And now we have to see it in a different way. I do think that Sean Parker stuff about him seeing it and realizing the potential immediately and realizing it was a big deal. I think that's probably the most accurate part of the movie. Feels true. They definitely, they cut out Dustin Moskowitz pretty much completely.

And in real life, I think he was a much bigger part of the whole process. And people say that Eduardo Savarin is the Andrew Garfield character, that he wasn't that big of a part of the process and that they used this movie to basically be, to pit those two against each other. and you bring in the Winklevas twins. And the reality with the Winklevoss twins,

which I guess we can talk about later, but they had this idea that was basically MySpace for Harvard. And Zuckerberg was probably thinking of a similar idea, made believe with these guys that he was going to go down the road with this idea, but was really developing his own idea because he wanted to beat them to the punch. And this movie made it seem like, did he steal it from them?

What happened? I don't think in real life that's really how it played out. Well, that's another collision that happens in the movie, is the embryonic Silicon Valley ethic versus sort of the old money ethics of the Ivy League class. Right. Which is another,

but is also awesome, unintended consequence of this movie. Yeah. Because when this comes out in 2010, we don't, Silicon Valley really hasn't blown up. Like, I would say probably 2000,

it was blown up, but not in the way of like 2012, 2013 where you knew a hundred of these guys' names. I don't think the masters of the universe things. Yeah. part of it yet. Wasn't like, oh, this is where the future of America is going to be in this section right here. I don't remember feeling the way. Well, it had been in the 90s and then you have a series

of booms and busts. And when those busts go away, these things kind of dip in the popular consciousness. I mean, for me, Facebook's an interesting thing. Facebook essentially officially launched my senior year of college and I wasn't on it. I didn't even join it. I don't think until 2006. But I remember it becoming a wave among young people and especially my siblings where it was a really a powerful dynamic. And I don't think they ever thought of it as Silicon Valley. You know, it wasn't the product of an industrial force in a specific part of the world. It was like, this is just something that came across my transom and I want to be a part of it. Well, we certainly didn't at Grantland really care about Facebook till the last year. Remember? Like, 2014 was when

we really started to think about. I remember, I went there, I think in 2012 and then 2013, and they were like, you should push your columns on Facebook. You could grow your audience and I'm thinking like this is a site that people they look up their ex-girlfriends and post pictures of their kids like why would this help my column I just didn't really see it yeah and then by 2014 we could see in the grand line traffic to Facebook referrals like it was different but that was four years after this movie I think we were always a little bit allergic to the kind of dialogue you'd find there too like I think we didn't always feel great about the way that people talked about stuff there and that is particularly resident in 2012 I think that

you were coming off of birth or stuff. So that was starting to show up in Facebook like the really I mean, oh, it's not like 08 was a cakewalk but it was like 12. I remember being the real toxic stuff starting to happen about Obama and the political dialogue really turning

into this like two aliens talking to each other kind of level of discourse. So yeah, I think we were pretty with BuzzFeed, which was the first one really exposed Facebook. And I think BuzzFeed is as has gotten a lot better and they have some really good writers and editors, a couple of whom we've

hired. But early in the stage of Grantland, it was just, we looked at them as, oh, that's the place where it's 23 great pictures of your dog. They were gaming the system in a way that none of us really respected. Then they eventually, but that was Facebook for a couple years after this movie. Coming up, we're going to bang through all the categories. And there's some good ones that I'm excited about. A couple of that. I don't actually know who's going to win. give us one second. Hey everybody, while we have your attention, let me just tell you a little bit

about what's going on on the Ringer podcast network. Specifically, the Channel 33 pop culture feed is popping. We've got a lot of great stuff on there. You've got Sean Fennessey interviewing some of the biggest names behind the camera in the movie industry

on the big picture. You've got David Shoemaker and Brian Curtis talking every week about the major national affairs and media stories on the press box. And you've got Juliet Littman and Amanda Dobbins breaking down everything that undergirds our celebrity gossip industry with Jam Session. Plus, take a look at all the latest cultural controversies with damage control hosted by Justin Charity and Kate Nibbs. And before I let you go, please subscribe and check out our new music podcast.

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All right, we're back. We're going to bang through the categories. This is a rewatchable's tradition. If you go on the feed, how many have we done now? Like 40, 35? I bet's around there, yeah. The best one's Miami Vice.

I don't know what the second one is. The worst episode is Miami Vice. My Invice was incredible. Still get emails about it. Yeah. From who? From Chris? Miami Vice is the peach of

of like if all the rewatchables pods are social networks, Miami Vice is Peach. It was like short life. No one cared about it. Well, what's that thing with actors, one for me, one for you?

Yeah. For Chris, it was like 20 for you, one for me. And that was Miami Vice. Congratulations. Yeah. And then 20,

20 episodes for now, we'll get to do another one. Yeah, and it'll be proof of life. We'll do black hat. Directors cut. All right, categories. Most rewatchable scene.

I only have four contenders, but feel free to add some. But I wanted to narrow this one down because I think there are four superior scenes. There might be a fifth or six, you guys tell me. But the opening scene is incredible. You mentioned that the script is 162 pages, but the runtime is only 120 minutes. In most movies, it's a page a minute. In this movie, it's compressed because they're talking fast. Sork and style.

So you know how they arrived at that, right? Fincher says, I'm going to do it. Get Sorkin to come to his house or meet Sorkin, and he's like, I'm going to get out my iPhone. We're going to do stopwatch for every scene, and you read the script as fast as you hear it in your head. And he gets his, he does the cumulative runtime. And then when they brought the actors in, they would run scenes. And Sorkin would be, and Fincher would go up to Eisenberg and Rune Mera, and they would do a scene in like seven minutes and 45 seconds.

And he was like, great, here's one note, here's another note. by the way, this needs to be 40 seconds faster because the ideal version of this is this. And it was just like, go again, go faster, go faster. If you think you're going too fast, it's not fast enough. I'm fascinated by that process. Movie making by stopwatch. It's amazing.

99 takes. Legendary. 900. 99. Can you imagine 99 takes? What a flex. I mean, yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine being exhausted. It's interesting when there There are some actors who come out and they talk about what they went through when they're

working on a movie. Jake Jellenhall famously went through, he had a tough time on Zodiac with Fincher. He kind of broke, kind of made him like brain damage. He did. He changed him. You don't get that impression from Eisenberg. It's like, it's really a testament to how perfect Eisenberg is for this movie. Rooney Mera 2, but Eisenberg throughout the whole movie is just, he's just a metronome.

He's just on it. He knows exactly where to go and how to go there. So I would say that across the board, the coolest thing about this movie, is that it's the perfect writer and director at the perfect times in their careers completely match for each other. And they unbelievably find a cast who's like, sure, I can talk that fast.

And I'll do 90 takes of it if you want. Like there's not enough ego there yet. Toby McGuire. Yeah. Like, hey, man, fuck that. 99 takes. I mean, we'll talk about a lot of people. We'll talk about a lot of other people.

But like, that's also true for Motor Mouth, Justin Timberlake. It's also true for Andrew Garfield, who we barely knew anything about. Like, all these people were so, well suited to this. Yeah. All right.

So that was one of them. I think the crew scene is incredible. Every time it's on cable, I'm like, I'm just in for this all the way through the music and the way they film it. And then right to the thing where they meet Prince, Prince Albert and somebody mentions Facebook and they're on a computer. And they all decide, we're fucking doing this. We're suing them. It's just a great eight minutes. The Henley Royal Regatta.

It's great. It's just great. It's a really, one thing I judge movies by is like if I can see in my head certain images of it. And this one has a lot of like, you know, even in the beginning you see Eisenberg walking through this fake Harvard campus. And even like then music and just a lot of those moments where like, oh, that's in my head. Oh, that's in my head. Oh, that's over there. That scene in particular is a real, even though this is basically a chamber drama with people talking in rooms, it's Fincher being like, don't forget I'm David Fincher.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know how to shoot this race. Yeah. I remember when I went under the door in panic room. Like, I can always do this, yeah. So the third one I have is the first Justin Timberlake, Dakota Johnson scene, which is taken out a new life. Yeah.

That scene's just really good and it should be terrible. And it's like, you meet Sean Parker, you get all this information about him, you get a feel for the character, you get a feel for where Facebook is and advances it along. She's hot in it. Yep. And it's just like, it's just good. Exactly like Napster. And it's the only time he really feels like a movie star.

Really in his whole career is in that scene. So what do you do? I'm an entrepreneur. You're unemployed. I wouldn't say that. What would you say? That I'm an entrepreneur. Well, then what was your latest entrepreneur?

Well, I founded an internet company that let folks download and share music for free. Kind of like Napster? Exactly, like Napster. What do you mean? I founded Napster. Sean Parker founded Napster. Nice to meet. I have issues with him throughout this movie,

but in that scene, it's like, that does a movie star. Also, just like ingenious, like the fact that you have one of the last major label pop stars in some ways that was the major labels before Napster came along and changed the music industry. And he's playing someone who was obviously did Napster, but then is also like this guy never made it because the majors came along and wiped Napster out eventually. Like the levels of irony to the casting and performance are pretty rich. Big, big, big star coming off the 0607 stretch with his album and the SNL and all that. And they were catching him as like an A plus lister. It does something interesting too. It essentially beats Game of Thrones to the sex position punch by like two or three years where, I mean, that scene if you rewatch it is is basically just an excuse for Sean Parker to explain who he is.

Also, the likelihood I think of a woman knowing who Sean Parker is, but also identifying him as the founder of now. Napster rather than Sean Fanning, who was the much more well-known founder of Napster, is a little bit of movie BS, a little bit of like, I know that she, I believe Dakota Johnson's character goes to Stanford, but even still, it's a little like, okay, this is just an excuse to just put Sean Parker's resume on screen. Yeah, it's great. Also, who goes to Stanford to study French? A good, good, really good call. Oh, that's a great one. Yeah. So you can say that for the pick and knit section. Last one, Eduardo finding out he got screwed. It's that.

and breaking the computer and threatening to push Justin Timberlake. He's wired in. Are there any other scenes you would have thrown in there? I actually am a huge fan of the Larry Summer scene. I think my candidate would probably be the cutting between the final club party mixed with him essentially creating Facebook 2 is like an interesting TikTok of showing the two different versions of life on the Harvard campus, what it means to have access to power versus what it means to create power.

Like there's a really cool filmmaking in those two things too. So it also just like it makes a movie about building code seem like a bank heist. Yeah. You know, like that's a pretty cool trick that they pull. Michael Mann couldn't do it in Black Hat. It's really tough. You get people in front of computers. Hard to make that good.

The track record's like one out every 12. I love when Eduardo comes into the room and starts drawing the algorithm on the window. You know, there's just like great. Who knows if you actually drew anything on a window? Cutting back and forth between the Phoenix party or the Purcellian or whatever it is. Yeah. I think the answer is the first scene personally, but I'm happy to we can split.

I think that there's, there's an emotional hit when the, how much was his shares diluted? How much was his shares diluted? How much were your shares diluted? I was your only friend. And then that is actually the best drop of the, the Atticus and Trent score is as it starts with the fuzzy strings.

And then the dun dun dun as it kind of like reveals what just happened. and it's the best Garfield is in the movie. It's so great to watch him come out of those glass doors and start pacing down the hallways. I rewatch that just for just for motivation sometimes. You know why I love the opening scene more than anything? Why? I really love that version of Bruni-Mara

and I wish we could have her back. I mean, she never left for me. Her IMDB got super weird after that. And she just, every movie she makes is... She's probably already cast in Dragon Tattoo. by the time she does this or no? I don't think so. I think this role is what convinced Fincher

that she was right for Dragon Tattoo. Can you imagine what it was like at craft services? Like, so you're busy next year? She commits. I'm on the record about this though. Make a rom-com. Do something easy. I'm Team Kate.

Been Team Kate for years. I'm staying on Team K. I'm dying for them to do the Netflix show where they're sisters who are both actresses, but one of them hates the other. And like the 10-episode psychological drama of two sisters. Oh, like it.

Like a kind of Hitchcockian thing. Yeah, they're just, one's jealous of the other, and the other's doing slightly better, and she has to, the best version of this, which doesn't get credit for it, is sex lies and videotape, which is really about these two sisters

and the less successful one is fucking the Andy McDowell's husband. Yes. But I love when sisters get, Laura Sanjicoma. Yeah, an incredible performance bar. I love when sisters get all the complicated shit that baggage that they have. Also, RIP, Margo Kidder, that's what she does in sisters, the De Palma movie from the 70s, too.

They should remake that movie. Legend. I'm ready for a Margo Kidder documentary. All right, I'll defer to the group and do Eduardo finding out. He got screwed. Oh, I was going to say this question. I was going to save this question for later, but was Eduardo asking for it? I mean, the part where he's just like, to be completely honest, I thought they were my lawyers, I guess.

how closely have you guys tracked what's happened to Eduardo since he got paid out? He was in Florida for a minute. He owns 5% of Facebook and he's like the third richest guy in Brazil. Yeah, he fled the United States. And arguably it was the guy that they stole from and Fast and Furious Five.

That's five. It might have been Irvado Severn. There's some rumor that he fled to a tax shelter and has been doing some things that are maybe a little bit less than legal around the world since he left. So this is a very sympathetic portrait of like a hardworking, hustling, entrepreneurial young kid.

Yeah. And his reputation in the world is a little bit different now. Hmm. Well, there was NDAs galore, so we'll never really find out what happened. But it really did seem like at some point, you're just a jackass. You're like hustling for these internships in New York City and Facebook. And you know that John Parker is trying to steal up from you for the moment. He orders Appletinis for everybody.

Anyway, what's age the best? I would throw in all four of the things we just mentioned into this, as well as the opening scene into the credits. Yeah. Going from that to Zuckerberg just walking through fake Harvard, fake Harvard. Yeah, it's Baltimore, right? John Hawkins, yeah.

Though there's a great bit where they were talking about how uncooperative Harvard was with the shooting of this. And that's one of the iTunes extras for the movie. and Fincher apparently to get one shot of the arches had a mime walk through the arches with a battery pack with a light on it so that he could get one shot from across the street of like the courtyard Wow.

Yeah. That's commitment. Which is crazy because this is the same school that Greenlit with Honors with Brennan Fraser and Joe Pesche. Maybe that's what led to this. Yeah, we're like, let's... Wrap it up. With honors.

What else I was aged the best? The deposition scenes work way better than they should. I have no idea why those work so well. Everybody, all the actors. Underrated John Gets performance. Really good John Gets as one of the lawyers. John Gets just write facial expressions at all times. Everybody's good.

I'm not positive I liked Rashida Jones in this movie, but even she's good. I feel bad because that's a really underwritten character that I don't understand. It's like let's throw some sort of famous female in their 20s. and we'll just give her some lines. Yeah. It's not really fleshed out. It's one of the laziest parts of it. I mean, you know, there's a whole conversation

Chris and I have had it before about the problem of female characters and everything Sorkin does. You know, it's just not one of his strengths. The Army Hammer, CGI. We take CGI for granted now in 2018 where we could fake anything. But this was pretty groundbreaking in 2010.

I remember finding out that there was a different actor and they just put Army in it and being like, what? How do they do that? And reading everything for, three days. This was really the most successful CGI to date, I feel like. Did you know that it was happening before you saw the movie? I didn't. I found that after. Me too. Did you know? Oh no. I was

I just don't remember being completely astonished by it. I did the thing where I intentionally didn't read anything and went and then read everything after. Yep. Which I, this was the decade of when I really started to do the movies. And I was completely blown away. I had no idea. Never hinted at it. Never occurred to me. And you would have asked me before this movie came out, who's going to have the bigger career. Max Minghelea or Army Hammer. I would have said Max Ming Gala, 100

out of 100 times. He's very good in this movie. He'd been in a bunch of stuff. I'd never heard of Army Hammer. It's funny how that had worked out, though, how Army's really become such a force. You want to do it, Chris? Go ahead. What? The M6 foot 5 line? Oh, it's like, I'm 6'2 pounds, and there are two of me. Yeah. What am I afraid of?

And then finally, the music, Trent Rezner, Adikis Ross. I think we throw the word iconic around too much. Score of the decade, by far. An iconic soundtrack. And music supervision and the placement of songs and TV shows and movies has become so prevalent now that every movie feels like a Martin Scorsese movie, including Martin Scorsese movies, which are completely chock full of songs. They would just much rather play like 13 songs that you know to kind of give you a sense. And this is such a timeless score. It has echoes of like new wave, new order type.

synth pop, this ambient almost like... A little joy division. Yeah, like in a little like, you know, downtown 80s, New York, art music, and then also just like that classical piano figure that immediately sets you in every scene and ties the movie together. It's pure Trent Resner.

Shout out to Robert Mays. It is beauty and anxiety colliding. That's what all Nine Inch Nail songs are about. They're about like pain and awkwardness and also like I know how to write the most incredible melodies in the world. and him doing it as film score is so smart. It was one of the all-time great pivots

for an artist entering his mid-life. He's just so good at it. I'd like to revoke your shout-out to Robert Mace. What? Because he lives in Chicago, and he should live in L.A. And if he lived in L.A., he would be the fourth person in this podcast.

True. And he would get through a whole Trent and Resner monologue. But hey, he fell in love. He gets up at 6 in the morning to do Soul Psycho with his girlfriend. And he gets to go to Cubs games. That's great. But here's what you lose, Maze.

You lose the Trent and Resort, monologue we would have given you right here. I should also mention this is a soundtrack that only belongs to the movie. Yes. You can't crank it. If you came over to my housebag, what do you listen to? I'm listening to the social network soundtrack. True story. It is one of my go-to. I'm having a really hard time with this edit and it's one o'clock in the morning soundtracks for me though. When I'm like in a 7,000-word story that I hate. Shout out to all of our writers. Do you just walk through Sunset Gower like Jesse Eisenberg? A little bit. I mean, I have that look on my face for sure, but it does, it has a weirdly calming but also like pushing effect, like fucking finish

this thing. Can I just say that the number one use of this score is in the social network, the number two use is in your office when you're pushing through on an editor. The number three use is when Steven Soderberg did a black and white silent cut of Raiders of the Lost arc and scored it with the social network score. He just put it up on his website. Really? Yeah, just for like, let's see what this looks like. And he was like, it was an example of Raiders is so good, you don't need dialogue. And he just scored it with the social network. That's amazing.

The thing that bums me out, and I'm going to put this in, we're about to do what's the, oh, we've got to figure out what age the best, but the thing that buzzed me out about the soundtrack is at some point, some shitty car company or tech company or beer company is going to overpay everybody

and use that social network thing and we're going to hear it for a year. If that shows up in a beer, that's a social network music. The X shows up in a beer at, I'm going to quit drinking. It's kind of sacred. Nobody should go near it, but I know it's going to happen. It has to. It would just completely misunderstand the point of that score, too.

Like, if you put that in a car commercial, it's just, like, it doesn't make sense. Trent Resner is actually crazy enough and convicted enough that he would turn down money and it would actually mean something for not to do that. I'll bet he has. I'll bet also I'm sure somebody's wanted, like, 9-inch Nails is closer to, you know, be a Hooters commercial, and he's been like, no, under no circumstances. So I trust Trent. incredible use of closer in that ER episode

with the best stabs everybody. Remember that? Yes. What's age the best, Chris? I'm going to go Winkle Vosses just because ordinarily what we would say is what a great movie, but with the special effects have aged so poorly.

And this is like a really groundbreaking digital cinematography movie. And I think that the fact that they were able to pull this off and, you know, in 10 years later, or however long later, almost 10 years later, we're still like, I buy that. I buy that there are. twins there. And it's actually crucial because if they fucked it up, and even if it had been three years earlier, it probably

taints the movie a little bit. It's like, oh, that's weird. Oh, I could see that was the other guy in that scene. But it's so seamless. What do you think, Sean? I have one right-in vote. Okay, let's hear it. Which is... Right-in votes are always allowed. How much we should have been trusting the Peter Thiel character in the movie in the first place when he comes

on as an investor? Wallace Langham, right? And then Wallace Langham from... I actually had that in what's aged the worst. Yeah. Well... Peter Thiel. I mean, it has kind of aged the best, though, Right, because it is indicative of kind of the future of Silicon Valley and a lot of the choices that he made. And the minute that that Parker brings that character into the movie, it's curtains for Eduardo. And, you know, that is borne out to be true in a lot of ways. I think the CGI also aged the best, just because I'm so impressed that it's been eight years and, you know, CGI is really good now.

It is. We're hitting a point where we're going to be able to go back and like take Al Pacino from the god father and do a 10-episode Netflix series of the godfather. The Irishman is young Bob De Niro, young Joe Pesci, and young Al Pacino. But at least that's new content. I'm saying they're about to go back and

disgrace some of the things that we love. I bet Star Wars is like five years for that. I mean, we saw it with Gran Moth Tarkin, right? Then we get that in Rogue One. What's age the worst? Eisenberg-Zuckerberg Impersonation impression slash character. Now that we have this whole

kind of thing with Zuck, we've seen him in all these situations and he's so fucking weird and alien-like and awkward. That's only in public performance though. Oh, I like this. Okay, good. I think it's like the Phil Hartman-Ragan sketch. Great. When everybody leaves the room, he just turns into a killer. He turns into the guy from the snarling guy from the depositions.

Exactly. I hope you're right. There is subtext there because you can't get this powerful and this successful without that hard deep edge. And I'm sure he has it. I think it's just a really big missed opportunity for all the Senate hearings that he's participating in for him not to have turned to like Patrick Leahy

at one of these points and just been like, you have part of my attention. You have the minimum amount of attention. It's raining right now. Zuck having a Zuck on it message board has not a. No, that's not good. Message boards were a tough hang, though.

That was pretty accurate. Everybody's got a lot of takes about Reddit, but it's like we were there 20 years ago. It's a hip-hop infinity.com. Compared to the other stuff. Zuck ranking girls with a hotter net type app in 2003 has not age well. It wasn't good at the time. No. At the time, it was like, come on, dude.

But it was the air of Tucker Max and all that stuff. So it didn't seem totally that place. Peter Thiel, we mentioned. Yep. Eduardo's girlfriend setting his hotel bed on fire still haven't totally gotten an explanation for that. The Christic plot line is weird. Completely fictional. Yeah.

Yeah. It doesn't really serve the story. Yeah. It didn't really add anything. It goes back to the Sorkin women. There's something just wrong there and you got to kind of be honest about it. It provides one good line, which is Zuckerberg being like, but it must be, it's still great to have a girlfriend, right? Like when he's just like, she's crazy.

She's, you know, paranoid. She's driving me crazy. It's just weird. I love to hear the explanation. It doesn't go towards anything. Like it doesn't make. Edwardo any one thing so that it results in anything. Her character is important though, because her character, it does two things.

One, it shows those two guys the glamour of creating and owning something despite being nerds. Girls are interested in you. Which, you know, that's a cliche, but I'm sure there is some truth to it for sure. And then additionally, she is used as the bridge to introduce to Sean Parker. That's how we get Sean Parker in the movie. And then, yeah, she did not have to light a trashy on fire. I called you 40, I texted you 47 times that I'm lighting your bed off fire. It's like, what?

I suppose she goes, their relationship is supposed to be like maybe why Eduardo doesn't have his eye totally on the ball for a while, but they don't even actually ever explicitly say that. The last thing that's age the worst, executive producer Kevin Spacey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tough one. What's age of worst, Chris? I think that the, I think the Christie character and the Christy relationship. The light in the bed on fire.

I mean, obviously the Spacey thing goes into a category by itself. I feel the same as well. Hey, Bill, why do we get into casting what ifs brought to you by ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Casting what ifs. I only have two, unless you guys could find anything. Shai LeBuff turned down

the role of Zuck. Wow. Turned it down. He's too manic. He wouldn't have been right. Eisenberg is an A-plus. Grantland fan, Eisenberg. Yeah, he is.

Well, he's a big Bill Simmons fan. I have him on tape saying, do you work with Bill Simmons? He submitted a piece to us that ended up running in the New Yorker instead. It was a good. It just didn't fit into the Gronhamber. I love Eisenberg.

I think he's one of the best. actors the last 20 years. It goes back to a lesson that we talk about on the rewatchables over and over again, episode one of this 20 episode run we're about to have. You need luck with this shit. If Shia LaBuff says, I'd love to do it, this sounds great. First of all, I actually think, I think Eisenberg does it anyway because I think Shia gets fired.

I think, oh, somewhere between take 99 and 68 with Rudy Mera. They're still shooting that movie. Yeah. It's kind of an Eric Stoltz, Michael J. Fox, back to the future thing. The other one is Jonathan Groff almost got the Sean Parker role. That would have been great. I mean, Groff is great at Fincher stuff. Yeah, we know the sequel to that is he's in Mineshunter.

So Fincher tucked that in his back pocket and then went to him on Mine Hunter. And ironically, he was my biggest problem with Mine Hunter. I disagree with you. I just did not like him. I know. We disagreed in that way. Wait, so he was going to be Sean Parker? Yeah.

They got it right with J.T. JT is good. And I actually think it was important. 2010. It's maybe less important now. I think it was a reason why that movie was such a big hit, too. You know, movies like this aren't always a big hit. It's really hard for movies like that to be a hit nowadays. But him being in it and people saying he's really good in it, I remember being a thing at the time. Yeah, they leveraged his stardom in a really optimal way. Yeah. And I think that album, Man in the Woods, I think it's going to have a moment. I think it's going to be underrated in

the year. I do. Yeah, cool. Think. My daughter likes that. You should do some good songs on it. There's some good songs of that. I think a year from now, people are like, you know it wasn't bad, man in the woods? Your future really is in like Larry King's style columns. Hearing the things about Man in the Woods, ellipsis. Why is it Doc Rivers showing his hand earlier in games? Ellipsis. Why don't J.T.

Chris Singleton do more. I'd love to have you. Call me old fashioned. There is an empty spot every Friday morning for a dot dash Bill Simmons column. Let's go. Thank you. Thank you. That was casting what if, Brought to you by ZipRecruiter. 80% of employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter,

get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. Try it for free today at ZipRecruiter.com slash rewatch. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash rewatch. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Ah, man, we are way behind schedule. Let's bang out D.N. Waiters really quick. The D.N. Waiters Award for the biggest heat check in the movie. Nominees, Justiner Lake, Runei Mara, Army Hammer,

Dakota Johnson, and Eduardo's great. girlfriend played by Brenda Song. Unless you can come up with anybody else, those are our nominees. Larry Summers. Yeah, Douglas Cervansky is Larry Somers. Oh, interesting. Max, what's his last name? Mangala. He's also, I guess,

in there. Who do you have, Chris? It's got to be Rooney. She gets one and a half scenes and we're still talking about her. My response to that is no. Okay. I think it's Army. Army was not a thing. He also wasn't originally cast. It was a different guy, wasn't it? Oh, no, excuse me. Actually, it was originally

cast as two guys, two separate guys, and then they ended up cutting out the other guy. I'm going to talk about that. He was so good that they essentially had to double him. And obviously we know what he's gone on to do. I vote with Chris, Rooney Mere. She's in one eight-minute scene. She's in another scene for 10 seconds,

and then a third scene for three minutes. And she may have the line of the movie. And it launched her entire career. 11 minutes. That's the definition of D.N. Waiters. Half-ass internet research. Research. What are my favorite topics? I was actually doing this while I watched a movie because I've seen the movie so many times. Harvard scenes filmed at Phillips Milton Academy, Wheelock, and Johns Hopkins. Yeah. My wife went to Johns Hopkins. I remember those, all that brick. Very familiar.

We mentioned the Mark Zuckerberg originally never planned to see the movie, but then ended up seeing it. So they have that line in there where they talk about the biggest thing on a campus included 19 Nobel laureates, 15 Pulitzer. 15 Pulitzer. prize winners two future Olympians and a movie star one lawyer says who is the movie star and the response was does it matter who was the movie star it's Natalie Portman Natalie Portman I thought went to Brown though Was Natalie Portman okay

Who went to Brown? Was it Clardine's? Was it Claredians? I can't remember something There was a lot of Grant of England people Yeah Josh Pence The other Winklevoss twin Big what if there

This is a sad story I feel bad for this guy Tough IMDB for him after the fact But did you know he's actually in the movie? No, it's what? The scene when they're hooking up with the girls in the bathroom, and then they go out, and there's this guy with facial hair, and he's like, what's going on in there?

It's like, oh, they're just finishing up. That's Josh Pence. Oh, wow. They threw him in there to just get his face in a movie scene. That is a classic tough beat. Yeah, Josh Pence. Probably really rooting against Army Hammer and Timothy Shalmay, hoping nothing good to happen with them.

Justin Timberlake lost 15 to 17 pounds for this role in the movie. Why? Chris Ryan? Because he's supposed to be on Coke? No. Because Sean Parker was on the paleo diet? No. Wanted to seem younger.

Oh. Yeah. Good thing to remember if you want to seem younger, lose 15 to 17 pounds. Wow. That's an HR violation bill. Well, if you lost 50 to 17 pounds, you would look like Matt Damon and courage under fire. The opening breakup scene with Jesse Eisenberg and Rooney Mera, 99 takes 8. script pages, which seems like a lot.

Yes. It's a lot of script pages. Yeah, that's very hard. I think the usual was like three. Didn't Paul Shear just say? The usual is like three? Yeah. Yeah.

Who played Bill Gates? I don't know. No idea. It was a Bill Gates impersonating. Oh, Fincher. Fincher. A little wink, wink. Apex Mountain.

A lot of nominees for this one. Jesse Eisenberg? That is my vote. I'll just say it right now. I think he has had a good career. I think it will continue to be good. It's hard to imagine him having a more impactful role than this. And if he does, God bless him.

This is a really iconic role. I would say apex mountain for him. Chris? Yes. Okay. David Fincher? No. I will also say no.

Chris would quickly know. No. I think we might still be getting his apex mountain. What's that going to be? I don't know. It wasn't mine hunter. Mine Hunter season two. It's not Mine Hunter's season two,

but I think that there's something around the bend. I still would, I think I'd probably rather watch seven. This movie's not perverted enough to be David Fincher's Apex Mountain. Yeah.

What is your favorite Fincher, Bill? I think this was his apex for this reason. I think it has a chance to be a movie in a decade. I think he was the best person to direct it, and I really don't think anybody

else would have even taken this above a B plus. I think it could have gone wrong in a shitload of ways. The little Fincher touches he put on it, it's just kind of a peak of the powers kind of moment for him. And I don't know. Expectations were high. It wasn't like people were saying, oh, they're making this Facebook movie. I don't know. Who knows? It was like once we heard it was Fincher and Sorkin it was like, yes, circle the calendar. When is this coming out? And it delivered. And it was great. And, you know, Seven was a movie. It was kind of like, what's this?

Morgan Freeman, Brad Pitt. I didn't really know Fincher that well. I didn't even, there's no pressure on him, I guess. I still see Zodiac as his masterpiece, but I appreciate what you're saying here. And I think in some ways, you know, Sorkin was initially going to do this. He was going to direct it.

And his willingness to turn this over to Fincher and Finchard's stewardship of it and showing that he could make a quote-unquote Hollywood movie which I think he's done a little, did again with Gone Girl a little bit or at least tried.

Con Girl's great. I love Gone Girl, too. I mean, you can talk to me into that being in the tip. It's almost tough to do Apex Mountain with Fincher because I don't really know like where the dip is. Yeah, Sean might be right.

The game, like the game in panic room or those the dips? I think Benjamin Button is his most, the least rewatchable of the movies he's made. There's a great bit where Sorkin was talking about how Fincher like goes into a movie. And he's like, You have a line producer on the director's side and an in-house line producer,

and they're basically going over the script and deciding how much money it's going to cost. And Fincher comes in. And he's like, this movie is going to cost $41 million. And the studio is like, great. How about $30 million? And he's like, it's going to cost $41 million. And they're like, fantastic. How about $35 million?

And then Sorkin says, Fincher then goes, you think this is a negotiation. This is not a $40.5 million movie. It's $41. And then they're like, sure, okay, $41 million. That was a real boss. I love it. Sorkin, I'm going to say no unless you guys disagree.

Although he did win the Oscar. I just think West Wing is his... This is my favorite script by him. It's an excellent movie. Great job by him, but I still think West Wing what he was able to do with that show and what it meant

and I don't know how that's not his apex. I think it's the smartest pairing of him to a director, but I don't think it's his best thing. That's because you're going to say Molly's game. I'm not going to say Molly's game.

I'm on the record. about Molly's game and it's many flaws. I think a few good men might be just more purely entertaining the movie script. Yeah. It's too bad because if Fincher had directed Molly's game it might be in the running for movie the decade

with this movie. I would have loved to have seen that movie. God. Maybe there's still time. Maybe just redo it. Andrew Garfield. He did become Spider-Man. This is by far the most interesting Andrew Garfield role. Yeah. I like this guy a lot just seems like a nice dude.

He's good in the military movie, the Clint Eastern movie. Oh, the Hacksaw Ridge? I liked Hacksaw Ridge. I thought that movie was good. I thought he was really good in it. Mel Gibson, not Clemson. I don't know if he's had his, oh, Mel Gibson said it. I don't know if he's had his, sorry, Clint Eastwood.

I don't know if he's had his apex yet. He's done some good stuff. I don't know, not many people saw Never Let Me Go. But he's very good in that movie. He's good. Carrie Mulligan, Doug saw him, though. She does. J.T.

His apex was 06-07 and. His apex is man of the woods. And made in the woods a year from him. You're wearing very man of the woods. shirt today. Thank you. I think it's the rock your body video is the pinnacle of Justin Timberlake. That when that happened, I was like, holy shit. This guy's Michael Jackson. I think Justin Timberlake's is Lonely Island, so. Okay. Well, that says everything you need to know about Chris's relationship to pop music. JT's apex was when that album came out like 06 and they

did the second, uh, when he did a man in the dick in the box with Sandberg. Yeah, it's after Crimey River, right? That's the Timberlake that Evan loved the most. Evan was just nodding very gamely during this whole thing, our producer. Mark Zuckerberg goes on SNL after. Does the awkward S&L cameo where they take the real person and put him and he's with Jesse Eisberg. And as usual, whenever S&L did that, it's just totally fucking awkward and weird. And then he's there in the closing credits.

And at the same time, this was kind of, he's worth a lot of money. Things are good. There's a purity to it. They made a movie. But he's okay. Now he's on S&L and now he's the devil. Are you saying that this is Apex Mountain for Zuck? I think inventing Facebook

It's probably a bigger way. I think from a likability slash he's not our enemy standpoint. This is just a good question in general. I mean, I don't know. Five years later, his company was not quite a moral quagmire and worth like literally three times as much money as it was. I think 15 was probably his apis.

Maybe, yeah, 15. As recently as 2016, people were like, he should consider running for president in 2024. Well, let's make sure that doesn't have. This podcast is the first Army Hammer. This is the resistance. No, I think call me by your name is Army's Apex. I love the Lone Ranger.

I'm just going to stand for the Lone Ranger. I don't give a shit. Shout out to Gore Vibinsky, one of my favorites. Call me by your name is okay. Yeah, I think I agree with Chris. I think a movie about bike riding through Italy, I think is definitely Zapeks. Congratulations on that. Let's tap here.

It's a nice view over here. We get some grapes? I love every single... Did they eat a single grape in that movie? Hey, man. Come on, Bill. Hey, we're going to ride a bike. You want to come?

All right. Would this movie have been better with Dany Trao? I'm going to say no. This might be the first time I've ever said no for this answer. Yes, but only is Peter Thiel. Buck. I had to do it, brother. What if Danny Treyall had to do it, brother?

Dakota Johnson's role. Would this have been better? He could have played the cop, I guess, who bused. Sure. He could have been one of the security guards when Eduardo flips out at the end. The thing is, is that if Trejo plays Eduardo, the whole Mark scene goes, when he's like, I'm coming back for everything. You're like, holy shit, machete's going to kill this guy.

I'm going to say no. Let's pick some nits. The major accuracy issues which we cover before, does this ultimately matter for a movie of the decade purposes? I'm going to say no. It didn't matter for all the president's men. I think we should know when people make a movie that it's not their job to be factually accurate.

But they're trying to, this movie is trying to say that there was like a native wound, that there was something wrong with this guy because of a relationship. And that caused all of this. and if you believe that and you believe this movie to be a really powerful and important movie over the last 10 years,

there's something flawed about that. Because if that part of it is dishonest, then it's built on something that is kind of dishonest. Now, movies don't have to be about truth necessarily, but when we're putting it in the context of where we are right now in our relationship to Facebook, I think it holds it back a little bit. All the president's men,

it made it seem like only the Washington Post was covering that story. And the reality is the New York Times broke maybe 45% of it. of the stories did not exist in the movie. That's true. The Post does accurately reflect that. Harvard is way whiter and way less foreign than it is in real life in this movie. I just wanted to point that out.

Harvard is probably the most eclectic student body we have, and it is people from all over the place. And this makes it look like it's Exeter Academy's high school senior prom or something. I thought that was weird. There's undeniably an aspect of Harvard that is that, though. That is the Henley Royal Regatta. I mean, I get that part. I'm just talking, like, the really strange kind of super festive Harvard parties at the beginning with strip poker and all the Fincher stuff he was doing, which was just completely over the top.

Yeah, I mean. But it's just like, that's not really what Harvard's like. You've got, I'm picking nets. You've got Eduardo Savarin is a Brazilian guy played by an Englishman. And you've got Max Miguel, who I think is part Japanese, but he's playing an Indian man. And so there is. That's another pick of nits, by the way. But that goes to your point about kind of what the diversity of Harvard is and what the characters are.

I mean, two of the characters are not white characters, but they're played by people who are at least part white. We forgot to mention with casting what ifs. Aziz Ansari tried out for that max roll. No way. Really? Yeah. And bombed it apparently. Oh, that's too bad.

Wasn't ready. He was still like funny people, Aziz Ansari at that point. Zuck's life was not this exciting. Harvard is not as fun as it seemed like it was in this much. Are we sure? Zuck's life, he told Oprah Winfrey, the drama and the parting in the film was mostly fiction. He said, this is my life.

I know it's not so dramatic. And he had said he had spent most of that decade focusing, working hard and coding Facebook and not trying to get girls. Created the site because he enjoys building things. That's a much more boring movie, unfortunately. So, sorry, Zuck. I have a lot of friends who were contemporaries. of Zucker where Chris does too at Harvard.

And to a person, they all kind of thought Harvard sucked and wasn't fun. It's that. That's what I'm bringing up with all this stuff. It turns out if you play Trey Hardener and New Order music behind anything, it seems a lot more cool. I would like to know a little bit more about the final clubs, the punch parties. It's a bunch of really driven people who have to work really hard to succeed in the four years that they're there.

Not a place where you're playing strip poker. I think that first scene, though, accurately shows you kind of two sides of the college experience. I spent plenty of nights in college in a dorm with my friends drinking and just staying up all that. That part was accurate. You know, that happens. Facebook author David Kirkpatrick, who wrote a book right around the same time. He said, Eisenberg plays Zuckerberg as an angry and secure, cocky, young jerk. His take, in fact, Zuckerberg is one of the least angry people I've ever met, even tempered, generally upbeat, if prone,

to silence highly self-confident Zuckerberg may be the least angry person I've ever met. More than swenching for picking nits. Sure. And then the dust of Moscovitz, Eduardo Siren thing

for people who actually know a lot about Facebook. They say that's like egregious. And the PR guy who's in one scene is Chris Hughes who now, who is running the New Republic, right? Yes. That's right. He was one of the roommates. Best quote. Yes. We did the 6'5-2-12. and there's two of me.

There's a difference between being obsessed and being motivated. That's a good senior year book quote for everybody out there. Defines my life. It's exhausting. Dating you is like dating a stair master. You're going to go through life thinking girls won't like you because you're a nerd and it's going to be because you're an asshole. If you guys were the inventors of Facebook, you would have invented Facebook.

And then you're not an asshole, Mark. You're just trying so hard to be. Best quote for you. I'm going to write in for I'll bet what you hated the most is that they identified me as the co-founder of Facebook, which I am because you better lawyer up, asshole, because I'm coming back not for 30%.

I'm coming back for everything. Trail. Yeah. Can I do one quick monologue? Yeah, please. Napster wasn't a failure. I changed the music industry for better and for always. It may not have been good business,

but it pissed a lot of people off. And wasn't that what FaceMash was about? They're scared of me, pal, and they're going to be scared of you. What the VCs want to say is, good idea, kid. The grown-ups will take it from here. But not this time. This is our time. This time you're going to hand him a business card that says, I'm CEO, bitch.

That's what I want for you. So where the hell is Eduardo? So where the hell is Eduardo? That's the Sean Parker that obviously got underneath Zuckerberg's skin and infected him. And that's a really good, that's really good Aaron Sorkin. And he definitely did go to meetings wearing pajamas and shit like that. And all that stuff didn't happen. The business card is real.

The Sean Parker stuff seems like the most realistic part of this movie. Because he was a showman. You know, he spoke to that. I think if you were the founder of Facebook, you would have founded Facebook. That's the iconic line. I'm down with that, Chris. Yeah. Okay.

Probably unanswerable questions. I only have a couple. Did Zuck actually steal the Harvard connection? I say no. I think those guys I think what this movie teaches us is it doesn't really matter Yeah for the sake of conversation yes I mean who cares

He won He won. That's all that really matters I care I'm an honorable guy Apparently unlike you too The thing is it's just ask Nas No idea is original you know Everybody has the same idea at any given time And you're always trying to figure out

Who can get to the bottom of it first Those guys know it too Those guys know that the only thing that matters The trade value column was a completely original idea Okay. Yeah, thanks. Was this movie too harsh about Zuck? No.

Okay. Should have been harder. Yeah. Not on him as a human being on what he was doing. I returned to the original question from the beginning. Was this the best movie of the 2010s? Let's talk about it a little bit. I'm going to throw some nominations at you.

Okay. I figured you'd be ready. I figured as the host of the Big Picture on Channel 33. Oh, thanks, Bill. Boyhood. Nope. Keep going. Mad Max Fury Road.

No. 12 years of slave. Nope. No. Django Unchained. Nope. Nope. Whiplash.

Nope. The Tree of Life. Nope. Black Swan. Nope. Before midnight. No. No.

Arrival. No. Looper. No. Moonlight. No. But it's the first time you got my attention. Birdman?

Uh-uh. No. The master. Too many people I know too many people who are just like What the fuck was that? I think that's a movie for A small group of people

That are just like, wow, that spoke to me Here's the first real genuine contender Okay Get Out Ooh Very interesting bookends Okay Well we sung Get Out's praises earlier

You're gonna say Sicario or what? I don't believe it's in the conversation What decade was by Amy Vice? Oh, last decade. That's right. It should be banished. Here's the thing.

What else do you have? There's a few more. Spotlight, I wouldn't say, but I think some people would say that. The Martian, I don't know. Skyfall, maybe. No. I think this is actually maybe less of an argument than I thought it was going to be. I just realized we skipped a category.

Which is what? The Mark Ruffalo overacting performance. For the they knew. Lord! forgot to put that in. That's the obvious winner. That's the obvious winner. I think Garfield?

I like it. I like Timberlake at the sushi restaurant is like, he's really going for it. You know what's cool? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it seemed like he'd rehearsed that scene with a couple different acting coaches. Did we put you know what's cool, a billion dollars in as the, as one of the lines of the movie? See, I think Timberlake wins this.

I think he's overacting this whole movie. We just liked him. But you watch that and he's kind of underqualified for that role. He's just likable and it's Justin Timberlake, but I never feel like he's Sean Parker. He's always Justin Timberlake. I think there is something kind of like slick and cheesy and performative about the real Sean Parker, though.

And so because of that, he's kind of a perfect fit. Would you, well, let me just throw this at you because if this is the best movie of the decade and you want somebody who's awesome in that part, like if you take Leo circa 1998, maybe even 96, more in the 96 to 98 range, and you made him Sean. Parker.

You gave him that performance. Leo is one million times better as an actor than Justin Timberlake. That is my point. Okay. You put that part in the hands of somebody who really knew what the fuck they were doing. But if you put... What's that movie? If you put in 1973 Al Pacino as Mark Zuckerberg, he also would have crushed it.

That's a hard game to play. That would have been weird. I think it would be 1968 Dustin Hoffman. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. This is a fun game though.

Yeah. Oh, 1968, that's the Hoffman's a good one. Yes, essentially the same character, right? You have the minimal amount of my respect. The, I think Timberlake wins it, though. The spotlight award, yeah. Are we still going to do, are you still doing who won the movie? We're about to.

Okay. Anything else you want to add? No, no, no. I just wanted to say why, I thought. Go ahead. So best movie of 2010s, we feel like it's basically get out of social network right now. And just for the people listening out there. For us, this category encompasses how well done was it, how resonant was it in the moment,

what kind of meaning has it taken as it gone along, was it the apex of a lot of different people's careers, was this the maximum somebody could have gotten out of this IP? There's a whole bunch of different parts to it. And did it appeal to the most amount of people in the right ways and all this stuff? Really, we're learning that the 2010s have not been. that great for movies. I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff that there have been a lot of A minuses and you know, there's a lot

of reasons for that. I think movies are different than they were and the way that they're made is different. This is the last, last time you could make a massive... When was it in Glorious? I think it's 2009. Okay. This was the last last time that you could make a major studio movie like this.

Like I said at the top of the show, it just doesn't happen anymore. They don't give $75 million to biopic dramas about tech companies. It's just not how it's done. And we make this analogy, pretty much every rewatchables, but I'm pretty sure eight years later, this is a Netflix series and not a movie. I often disagree with you about that,

and I disagree with you about this one, too. I like it better as a... I like it as a contained story. Yeah, I don't know if I didn't... No, I'm saying I want it to be a movie. Oh, it would have been. Yes, I think there's more money in the Netflix. Especially since Fincher keeps...

Fincher has repeatedly sort of started to gravitate towards whether the failed HBO series that he was going to do a couple years ago and now doing Mind Hunter. It's like, I think he's more, if he gets to do exactly what he wants and gets the budget he wants, he'll do it on Netflix or HBO. I think there's one other one that I forgot, which I think is very different from this movie because this movie is not very rewatchable, but the first watch was incredible. And that's gravity. That's interesting.

I haven't seen gravity again since it came out. I was thinking about it because they put 2001 back in theaters this weekend. Christopher Nolan restored it slash unrestorted. And I think gravity could have a moment for people 20. years from now when they put it back in theaters. It's an experience still. That's very different from this. Who won the movie?

Here are the candidates. Fincher. Sorkin. Eisenberg. Garfield. Just for the fuck of it, Timberlake. So there's a making of featurette that's attached to the movie.

Jeff Cronomworth, who shot the movie, talks about how he and Fincher were just like, the hero of this movie, and there is a sort of hero void in this movie in a lot of ways. I guess it's Eduardo, but he's not an active participant in the action in a lot of ways. The hero of the movie is the dialogue. And the dialogue actually is the architecture for the way that the film is structured. So the same way that in the first scene of the movie, Erica and Mark are having this conversation that will have a line, then refer back to that line three lines later, and they'll be having

three or four different conversations within one conversation is the mirror for what they do when they start doing three or four depositions on top of each other and they're cutting to different office rooms and then cutting to the action that those office rooms are referring to. That's just masterclass screenwriting. That only like, I don't even know who else besides Sorkin I've ever seen an attempt to do something like that. And the way they get exposition across, which is incredibly fast-paced and furious, never except for that one Sean Parker scene

where he's like, I know your bio and you know my bio, is ever really that noticeable. So I think that the fact that the filmmakers themselves were like the dialogue is the most important part of this movie. And then when you get to the actual rewatchability, we could have sat here for 30 minutes doing lines.

And when you turn this movie on, you're never like, oh, I've missed the part that I liked or anything. Like you could watch this movie from the last 10 minutes or the first 10 minutes. It doesn't matter. I think it has to be. be Sorkin.

It's a great case. Few Good Men is also a similar case of just the pace of the dialogue stays the same for the whole movie and it works really well. I'm torn though because I feel like the Sorkin Fincher thing goes hand in hand. It's tough for me to pick one. I know we're going to have to, but I want to air Sean's take first. Unfortunately, it's not very interesting because I agree with Chris. You know, the movie only won two Oscars.

It won three Oscars. It won screenplay for Sorkin. It won best score. for Atticus Ross and Trent Rezner, and it won Best Film Editing. And the film editing and the script go hand in hand. There's something about the kind of staccato cut nature

of the way that everybody delivers the dialogue, the way the scenes move and the way everything is going on a dime all the time. Same goes for the music. All that stuff sinks together. And without an amazing script, it doesn't have it. And I think that this was also, I remember when Sorkin won,

it was an acknowledgement of like a master has his time. And he's often considered a master of his form. He's considered one of the five best living guys who does this. So I'm going Sorkin. I also go Sorkin, but I don't want to sleep on how good Jesse Eisenberg was in the movie. Yeah. I mean, if you get any other actor doing this role, I don't know if the movies is good. Well, I think that Dustin Hoffman in 1970 or something is a really good analogy.

Like, it was that good of a performance and really hard. And it's just hard to be unlikable, but not. Yeah, you think about the vanity that movie stars have. How many movie stars would be like, make me. I'll do this. Well, they'll be unlikable, but they do it in a cartoonish way, like as the superhero villain or something like that. But that's the sad thing about what I was saying before. I mean, the only movie we've really seen Jesse Eisenberg appear in in the last few years are the DC movies where he's playing Lex Luthor.

I mean, that's a bummer. I wish he was making more movies like this. Yeah, he should be making a movie about like some diehard Knicks fan who decides to try to frame James Dolan for something. Maybe we should write that movie for him. A black comedy and it goes wrong or something. I still, I think Jesse Eisenberg, some good stuff's happened. But I think after this movie, I felt like that guy's going to really have a career in a big, big way. And now eight years later, I don't know.

I'd like to see him. I think he's got a pretty good life. Sounds like he's just like chilling in Indiana with his wife and does a DC movie every couple years. No, but I think there's a Dustin Hoffman run in him that I think he could have. I think the problem is probably that Jesse Eisenberg doesn't actually get offered part. and anything interesting. It's like the kinds of movies that are really getting made today.

He's in the DC movies, but like what are the movies that Jesse Eisenberg is getting boxed out of? I'm a defender of the movie American Ultra. I like that movie too. Not a lot of people saw. It was him and Kristen Stewart. I think it's really interesting,

weird, oddball, like action movie. And I wish that he at least got a chance to make more movies like that. But it's just not the time. Like, you know, Joaquin Phoenix, who I think you could you're in 2010, if we were Pepsi Challenge, it would have been dead even. But as

for whatever reason, people love giving him really crazy, awesome parts. And maybe Jesse Eisenberg needs to just be more crazy in real life. Jesse Eisenberg needs like a Spike Jones movie. You know, he needs like a Noel Boundback movie. He needs one of these directors to just adopt him. You're just like, you're my guy.

Where he gets the James, Damien Chiselle, like, I get the three movies in a row. Unfortunately for him, he got on the Woody Allen train. I mean, he made a couple of movies with Woody Allen and that. Yeah, that's the thing. I want to do his last eight years over again because I just think like he probably had really good offers on the table. I'm sure. I'm not giving up on him.

I'll buy all of your Jesse Eisenberg stuff. He's great. Yeah, that's it. Episode 1, 20 episode series. We got some great stuff. What's next? I'm not going to spill what we're doing. What's next is we're doing Denzel next week.

Right, okay. I'm not going to spill any of the 20 movies. We'll tell you like a week in advance. So if you want to watch the movies ahead of time, you can watch it. The one I'm excited about and the one, when I think all three of us were meant on the earth to do is July 4th, Jaws. Can't wait. I don't know how long that's going to be.

I'm staying alive just for that. My peak emotional experience. I feel the same way about that as I do for Game 7 against LeBron if that happens. Like, I probably would do a hyperbaric chamber before. I might take a nap. I might change my diet. I might just, I'll do the entire pod as Roy Shider from all that jazz. There's so many conversations I want to have about that movie.

Yeah. But the whole Roy Scheider being what athlete was Roy Scheider is, I'm ready to go there for 15 minutes. He is the most underrated 70s actor by far. It's kind of like an amazing IMD, and he's never discussed. It's like Roy Scheider, it's like Jaws was just Spielberg. Yeah. It's like, Roy Shider doesn't matter in that movie to people. And it's like, you're all crazy.

What is he, Alex English? What's the comparison point? No, he's so much, that's the thing. It's, it's not Alex English. It's like, it's like, is he. It's like George Gervin. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. All right. He was like, like George Giverr was like the best two guard for 10 years. And Roy Scheider was an A plus lister for nine years. This is going to be a great pod. Yeah, I can't wait for that. So anyway, rewatch.

Let's tell your friends, we're back. We're back for the next 20 weeks. Thanks to Evan. Thanks to Zach Mack. And don't forget to subscribe and pass the word. We'll see you next week. Like us on Facebook.