The Rewatchables - ‘The Sting’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey pull off the big con and revisit ‘The Sting’ to kick off Redford Month in honor of the late, great Robert Redford. 'The Sting' also stars Paul Newman and Robert Shaw and was directed by George Roy Hill. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Ronak Nair, and Eduardo Ocampo This episode is sponsored by State Farm®️. A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.®️  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You can find the watch with CR. Still there. He wrote his first site. Kim, we were the showrunner, a task. Can you tell us? under the pseudonym Brad Inglesby. That's right. Congratulations.

Thank you. Sean Fantasy, big picture. Hi. What was physical media, something, counsel, something? Yeah, we had a high council meeting, four guys. You're invited to the next one. Well, I just showed you my... Make it a big five.

I have a big stack now. Are you boosting now? Eh, well... I keep it low. Are you taking physical media? So, CR came to the most recent episode. Yeah. He's done one episode a year the last three years.

And he walked away with... like 40 Blu-rays. Yeah. How did that happen? Because Tracy Letts has lots of doubles. So he brought all of his doubles and gave him to Chris. So if you want to double your stack, think about it. Yeah. 2026.

Double my stack. Speaking of doubling stack, we're doing this thing today because it's Redford month. And we actually extended the month. It starts on September. We're doing five Redford movies and the rewatchables. Some that we were, they were always in the hopper to do anyway, but we had to start with the sting, an iconic movie. that one best picture in 1973.

We'll be back in a second. The Sting, 1973, comes out in Christmas. I think my dad said he took me to the theater for this one. Really? Four. Not a lot of memories.

Oh, there are no babysitters. There are no rules in the 70s. So you like, Crystal. I want to go see the Sting. Let's take Little Billy and hope he doesn't like fall over and somebody's seat. I mean, my kid is four.

So I'm trying to imagine bringing her to see a movie. A two-plus hour con movie? Yeah. That would be great for me. me. I don't really have a lot of memories.

It was a Robert Redford, Paul Niemann, George Roy Hill reunion from Bouchcasting the Sundance Kid. Has there ever

been a more successful get the band back together non-sequel? I actually did some homework on this and I thought

there would be more examples than there were where it's like those two guys. I love those two guys. Now they're in this.

Wow. It's really rare. It's rare than you think. That's a classic BS. You didn't prep me for this

one kind of question. I should prep to you. Like, I fucking Damon are going to try to do that right now. The rip they did with the last deal. Yeah. But with error, it's not the same thing though, right? Like, I feel like... Well, you could say dogma

was a follow-up to Goodwill Hunting. Oh, so Dogma is the sting to Goodwill Hunting's, Bush Cassidy. For Ben and Matt. I was worried CR was going to go with like Peter North and Christy Canyon. Well, they had a lot. I mean, they had a lot of comebacks. That was banger after banger, yeah.

So I did the research on this. And you know, AI now with Googling stuff. Don't just serve you a lot of good stuff. Are you getting served? Are you sponsored by Gemini? Or are you just turning yourself over to the machines? There were some helpful things. So it used to happen all the time. It would happen with like

Kepburn and Tracy. Like we, this was how we did it forever. Jack Lemmon and Walter Mathau. Carrie Grant, Ingrid Bergman. Yep. Bullgarten. Now? Yeah. Now, like really, this was the last one. And then it shifted to rom-coms. It's like Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan.

they're back. And now it's you've got male. Richard Gereland, Julie Roberts, they did Runaway One Ray Bride, I can't speak. And then Adam St. ler and Drew Barrymore is probably our best. We got the band back together of the last 30 years,

which is both exciting and depressing. Wow. But like my kids know them as like a combo. I knew Newman and Redford. I always considered them like a combo just for these two movies. I'll tell you what it is. It's Will Ferrell and John C. Riley.

That's a good man. The Alleghenites and Step Brothers. That's really good. That's probably the closest we have. Where, like, they hit on something in Talladega nights. They were so good together. And they were like, we got to follow up this energy as soon as we can. And within three years, you got it.

Yeah, because sometimes, why do you think more actors aren't like, we were great together? Let's run that back. We say with sequels and that's it. Because I think that they're supremely competitive people. And you can even see when you read about, like, the making of this movie, is that even though Newman is in this kind of, you're minted, you're in Hall of Fame,

you're going anywhere you want, he's still thinking like, I'm the star. I am the top billing. How do I relate to this kid trying to take my spot? In a way that I think probably more actors think about than they actually reveal.

Robert Shaw had a good quote about this. Because at that point, Redford was a massive star. You know, when they did it, Butch in 69, he was on the way up. 73, he's minted. He's one of the biggest stars in Hollywood. But Newman was still Newman. and Robert Shaw said when they were filming this

and they're filming it in relatively public places like Chicago and L.A. He said everyone was just going nuts for Newman. And then they asked like, what about Redford? And he was like, nah, it was really Newman. I wrote it, they were just going right after. I can't do it, CR. Redford goes in the water.

Sharks in the water. But yeah, Newman had that special something. But it's funny because this is Redford's most charismatic movie. How do you, so how do you, like, what's the comparison modern day to that right now? Because. Isn't it Pitt and Clooney? Or would it be like Pitt and... But that would be like if people were going crazy for Clooney if Pitt was present, you know,

because Newman is about 10 years older than him. Because it needs to flip. Yeah. So you need, who is the older star who's like, you know, less of a hunk. Like Paul Newman, one of the most beautiful guys ever. Yeah. Still, like Redford was the ideal for a nail movie star. So it's like Brad Pitt and Leo and then Leo catches up to Brad Pitt.

Yeah. But the example, the most recent example that I can even think of would be Top Gun Maverick, where it's like Tom Cruise with two younger actors who were probably in their dreams, like if I could get a tenth of that. And he's got 20 plus years on those guys, right? They weren't famous like Redford was for the second movie. But I think in the conception of Top Gun Maverick, just like maybe in the conception of the sting, like there was probably a little bit more real estate for the younger guys to take it,

put a flag down on. And then Tom Cruise is like, actually is Tom Cruise. movie. So like, I mean, the bigger questions, we just don't have movie stars like this in the same way anymore that are under 50 years old. You know, in, in Dune Park 2, Timothy Shalamee and Austin Butler have like a showdown. Right. Like the conclusion of that movie is those two guys fighting. And it's a Dune movie. It's an IP. It's sci-fi. It's a big event movie. But in that scene, I was like, these two guys should make a movie together that is not sci-fi where they're not fighting. Like, they should actually be. joining forces. But I think there's like two bartenders in early 2000s, New York right after 9-11, who love the strokes. Cocktail legacy sequel, not a bad idea.

Cod's stealing prequel. Eddie Greenwald and CR coming in. They're like, yo, have you seen the Yay, Yeah, Yeah, Yes? Who are they? Rheingold tonight. Not the worst idea ever. It was amazing. We can meet her tonight.

I don't understand. Why is Hollywood failing? We made a movie for Yay! Yes, fans, yeah. I think the answer is. is actually, you stumbled on it with Shalame. It's probably Shalame and Leo. Even though the ages are a little different.

They're 20 years apart, you know? Like, Leo's 50 now. But Leo was here and Shalemey was here. Now, Shalemay is like very close. And he is, of course, playing the Leo playbook. Like, he asked him for advice. Leo gave him the advice. No superhero shit.

No drugs, all that stuff. You know, that was the advice that he gave him. Did Shalemate actually say that on the record? I think he did, right? I think it was like no drugs, no capes. or something like that. Don't have something called the pussy. Maybe don't call it like anything like that, but do it anyway.

Just be like my group of friends. Yeah. Me and my buddies. Leo's like, there's these rich guys that will just fly you on their jets. Just make friends with as many of them as possible. And then you don't have to pay for anything. Jets and Yots. That's where this is.

It's a really good idea. They love Tom Brady's like, yeah, that's some jets and yachts. Best con movies ever? I don't know if this is the best, but it has to be mentioned. It's almost like when we talk about best actresses ever and it's like you gotta mention Merrill Street.

Is it the first? I don't know. I think it might be the first. There are, I think there, obviously the con man is like a staple of crime literature and like fiction from before this. But like this is super,

this is definitely popularized the con man as something in popular culture. I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but what I watched an interview with Redford where he talked about the movie and he said that when he read the script, he was like, there has never been a movie in this world before.

Wow. And that's unusual. You know, like it's really hard to tap into a new unseen space. And I love Conman movies. I've talked about them over the years, how much I love them. House of Games,

like one of my favorite movies of all time. But I couldn't think of something specifically set amongst these kinds of guys before this movie. You know who's in House of Games? I wanted to be a nurse. Who was? Lindsay Krause.

Yeah. I can't believe Lindsay Krause and Robert Shaw are like, we don't have to say what we're imitating. Quietly unbelievable

IMDB for her. Oh, yeah. She's amazing. She's even in all the president's men. Yeah, she is. Hey, you used to go out with the guy who had the list of Crete people.

And then they kind of bully her in giving her the list. Are we... Lindsay Kraus' month? We're not re-presidenting? So I watched it this weekend and my wife was furious. Why?

Why? Because she's like, really again? Did you know that they put it in theaters? That it's like in theaters this weekend and it was not related to Redford's passing. It was just that it was, I guess it's an anniversary? Is it the 50 year anniversary of the movie? Can't be.

It's back in movie theaters. In theaters, I think this weekend. By the time people hear this, maybe it won't be. That movie's still banging. I'm ready to be president. Criterion, the, channel, which you did something for with Alman, they're really, they found their stride in 2025.

Yeah. They had 70s, like, thrillers, whatever, and they had, like, nine of them, including all the president's men. It's a pretty sick program. It looks good. Yeah. And there's always, like, one or two

where I'm like, what's this Jeff Bridges movie? Yeah. Jeff Bridges, 1979? I don't even know what that is. That's Winter Kills, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Is that about a president getting assassinated?

Yeah, it's like, kind of a satire of those movies. It's not as, like, hardcore as the parallax view or whatever. Could we talk to, into rewatchables movies we can't do because they don't exist month. Like what? Eddie and the Cruiser is the sure thing. Kiss of Death with Nick Cage. Because they're unavailable.

The recordizable differences. Just unavailable. Is Eddie and the Cruiser's not on Tooby? It's not available. It played once on like Cinemax a couple months ago. No, TCM. T or actually AMC. One of them, yeah.

And I taped it and was just like, hey, Eddie and the Cruiser is literally his broadcast once a year. But you guys were responsible for getting pump up the volume back onto streaming after you did the episode. And it was on Criterion, too. That's what we're just trying to spread the word. But we've been complaining about Kiss to Death and some of these other ones for a while. But Sierra and I have Eddie and the Cruiser's recorded on cable. But if we did rewatchable, nobody would be able to see it. When House and Jacko were here, we're going to be Revenge of the Nerds.

It's not available. Is it not? Nowhere. I wonder if it's because some of the material in that has. You think Revenge of the Nerds? Anthony Edwards used some of his ER movie. He's like, we're getting rid of this one. Could be. It's a goner.

Best con movies. The Sting. Oceans 11. Focus. Catch me if you can. Call her money, house of games. Trading places. I would start with those seven. There's a bunch more. Yeah. Like the grifters and like you keep going and going. Yeah.

But I think that's in the vicinity and it usually involves a swerve. I think what's interesting with the sting, it's telling you what the chapters of it's now we're the setup. that like it's kind of walking through it but in the most fun way possible because they have these amazing cards and it's one of many reasons why I won Best Picture

it's just really well put together such a good lingo movie you know incredible constantly dropping little vocabulary words that make you understand what you're inside of and you can never like I couldn't tell I was like is based on something that is real were these real cons yeah I think a lot of this world

when Twist is putting together the team of con men is actually drawn from like you know books and stuff about that, but you don't get usual suspects without this. You know what I mean? You don't get like the lingo in some So that's technically a con movie. So there's basically two versions of a con movie.

I think Focus is the traditional con movie and then usual suspects, ones that have a swerve. Right, like a crime thriller that has a con at the root of it. Like Spanish prisoner. A mammoth's like really, really, really adept at this. So would you, let me solo with CR for a second?

Go ahead, by all means. I know you'll have some thoughts. I'm going to let CR cook. I'm going to put something on the oven for CR. I've spent so much time listening to just you guys talking about movies. I feel very comfortable in this space. If you could write a heist movie or a con movie, and it's like the one script you ever wrote

and it would actually get made and be really good, what's more appealing to you? Heist movie or a con movie? I think a heist movie. Yeah, I'd say I knew that was going to be a answer. Honestly, I don't think I'm smart enough to write a con movie. Like sometimes when I watch these... You're not nefarious.

enough. Well, it's just like, I don't think that my brain works in five steps ahead logic, which all of these movies essentially, like, they rely on one person knowing, like, all the different permutations of someone's reaction to a situation. And I think you can kind of undo the, the stitching on con movies pretty easily, but I, my brain doesn't work that way. My brain works, like, we're not, we're not here for your money. We're here for the bank's money. Your money's in show. Don't try to be a hero. Sean would be a con movie No undoubtedly

It would be And it would have Multiple poker scenes Well it's a nice little Sprinkle on top That games of chance Are often a part of con men movies But I also like

I like puzzles And I like mazes And I like magic Like those are things that I'm actually That's sound Maybe the dorkiest thing I've ever said But I do like all three of those things This is a guy

You know I'm just a man who likes a puzzle Is this a resume To be in the prestige rewatchables I mean, I love the prestige. That's like by far one of my favorite Nolan films. It's a good one. But those worlds are really fun, and con men movies kind of bring in all of those worlds.

Like you get to saw stuff. I do empathize, though, with what Chris is saying, which is you have to be extremely smart to be able to devise a good con, especially one that makes sense in a movie. Like, it's one thing to con a guy out of money in real life, and you can read some of the books that this movie's based on, but to actually make it a coherent,

plotted narrative experience, I think is pretty challenging. It's why there's so few of these movies. Do you think that the nature of our digital life experience now has pretty much killed the possibility of a con movie? Because there's so much conning going on. Yeah, because the second you get set up, you could just start a Reddit thread and be like,

does anyone ever had somebody come up and ask them for nuclear secrets? You know, like, and also so much of, like, what we would consider conning or a conning or a con con 30 or 40 years ago is now fishing email or your Amazon delivery just needs your social security number. Please call this like... Yeah. What it was, you know, obviously the origins of cons is in confidence and confidence men,

but I would argue that it is now about conspiracy. Like, that's really more than the realm of what the cons you find are like, here's the Ethiopian prince who needs $10,000. Please, wire him this man immediately. Is it possible people are just smarter now, too? It's hard for me to say that they are smarter right now. Well, no, because you had the experience of decades and decades of hearing stories about, you know, that's why like the bomber, Quippers thing is such a fun story to talk about.

They have more access to information. They have more access to information than they've ever had, and I wouldn't necessarily say that makes people smarter. I think it's the same exact premise, though. Saviour? Like, confidence men lull people into a sense of security. And we are definitely in a time where we're like constantly being lulled into a false sense of security. And that's why people, like,

give their money away or fall prey to really influential people or whatever is happening right now. So, I don't know, I feel like it's all kind of the same. Like, everybody is usually the same. They want to be, feel safe. The bomber starts, so we're taping this on the 22nd. So who knows if there's like big revelations in the next week. But the

bomber story, if you feel like he actually didn't try to circumvent the color cap, it's basically a con story. Yeah. That's what Mark Cuban's been arguing. He's like, these guys were con artists. They defrauders. They defrauded all of these people. They did all this. We've seen like what the Haktua

girl when she'd had her she did her pull the rug move. Those are basically these short cons. So the cons now are just kind of less fun and more aggressive versus like something like this where it's like, we're going to do a con. I'm going to have 30 people

in my fake racetrack parlor. We're going to call fake game. I don't know. It was just more fun back then. I think the great thing about the sting is that it starts out as basically a pickpocket movie. It starts out, it's a creative germ, as David Worthy guy wrote it, was researching pickpockets for a different screenplay. But Luther and Hooker's original kind of move is essentially a glorified pickpocket job. Yeah. And then each step he takes,

Gondorf kind of shows him there's so many levels to this where you can have like a 20 guy team, you can have fake storefronts, you can have fake wiretaps. And that's just, that's what makes it so rewatchable is to just go down the rabbit hole with those guys. I have a question for both of you guys about this. How comfortable are you lying to people's faces? Because my wife says, this is a likely story,

she cannot lie. Like when she gives her, she has lots of tells, I would say. That's interesting. You know? And the big part of being a good con man is never breaking, never revealing. I feel like there's so many bad karma things that go with lying. That's true. Really aggressive to be lying.

I'm always in the back of my head thinking about that. I would have a lot of trouble just lying. There's two distinctions, though. Number one is, like, there's the version of lying that you lie when you're like, what time did you get home last night or, like, why is this broken? And you're like, I have no idea. You have definitely no. Yeah.

Then there is the version of the lying that these guys do, which is more like theater and also crucially often directed at people who, quote, unquote, deserve it. Like, I never took, you know, what hooker is, like, all mad that he would be accused of taking up, like, taking off winos. Right. He's like, I've never robbed a whino. Like, I go after guys who deserve it. You like the code of honor of con artists.

Yeah. Why can you lie? Well, you like playing poker where all you do is lie in poker. I like the way that Chris framed it, which is like in the theater of something, I think I feel comfortable. In like the conversation about like who broke the toilet seat or whatever, let's, you know, I'm not as comfortable with that. Just wait to your kids get older. There's a lot of lies that happen. Yeah.

I'm starting to feel that already. Yeah. I didn't leave the fridge open. It's like, you definitely did. You're on camera. heard you at midnight, go downstairs, and the fridge was open after you did it. No, I didn't.

It's a lot of that. I have no idea who ordered all these Christy Canyon films. But that person was probably just curious about her work. A man of taste. Yeah, the hotel porn order pay-per-view. What a great error that was. I didn't order this. $74.

What is this? So this thing is a triple con movie. What's a triple con movie? There's three cons happening, simultaneously. Salino, the waitress, who's actually the assassin hired to kill Hooker,

Redford turning on Newman, but then he actually doesn't, and then the feds breaking up the betting, but they're actually not the feds. So basically everyone in the movie is lying to somebody, and the hardest thing to pull off with the audience is that I have to be surprised at the end that they, oh, it's like one of those.

Yes. Focus had a great thing with that with the Super Bowl. When they elaborate on. That's early in the film. Yeah, the Super Bowl and Will Smith and pick that jersey. It's like just an awesome 20 minutes. And then he gets rid of Margot Robbie,

but that's like by far the best part of the movie. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're hard to do because this movie maybe because it's so old and also is set in a time, even 50 years before that, we don't, we're not as suspicious of every single decision that's being made.

Like, we want to be on the emotional journey with the characters, so we're not doubting them. The challenge of a confidence, man, movie now is like, you have to suspect everything that the person says is bullshit. Yeah. And a lot of, like, matchstick men kind of undercuts this by having a lead character who, you know,

is struggling with something. And so you're like, it complicates our ability to trust them or not, but it's really hard to make a present day version of these kinds of movies. I don't know whether this played this way in the early 70s, but one of the ingenious things about this film is that when you're watching it, it's like, they cast somebody as Salino

who you're like, maybe that's just a waitress. Even now, even after seeing this movie dozens of times, I still forget. Like when you first meet the waitress, you're just like,

yeah, she just seems like a waitress working in a Depression-era diner. You don't think that is the one lady hitman. I have a lot of questions about her, though. I feel like for unanswerables

or picking nits, there's a lot to explore there. Yes. A loose waitress is what she was. Man's knocking on her door two in the morning. He's just lonely. At that door locked.

I'm lonely just like you. She's working strategically, though. Well, we don't know that when it happens. We're like, wow, this is Redford. I know he's handsome, but come on. Paul Newman. You've all heard of him. In a slump since Butch

Cassidy heading into this movie. Yeah. WUSA. WUSA? What's that movie? It's a movie about a radio talk show host, conservative radio talk show host that is eerily prescient about media, but the movie itself is not good.

Sometimes a great notion. That didn't do well. That's very underrated, in my opinion, just for the record. We just did a Paul Newman episode like six months ago, and I rewatched every single movie ever made. He directed that movie. It's really good, adaptation of the Ken Kesee novel. Pocket money.

Bad. Judge Roy Bean, solid. Yes. Pretty good. By the way, easily just, hey, Netflix, just make that a prestige show. Just put a judge somewhere in the South. Frontier Justice being...

He's like Kyle Chandler. I don't have to spend a lot of money. Perfect. Great. Kyle Chandler is just going to kill some guys his own way. And then the McIntosh man. Yeah, not as successful. That's his second movie in a row with John Houston.

And he plays an Irish spy. That's right. Well, it gets worse because he turned down dirty Harry because he thought it was too right wing. But recommended Eastwood, right? Recommended Eastwood. Would that have worked for you? No.

I think it worked. that great for everybody. Too expensive for French connection. That's when we're maybe shaved the salary. He would have been in Popeye Doyle? Yeah. Huh. Yeah.

Cut the salary on that one and just do French connections. So perfect. Supposed to be in Paper Moon. And did not work. Did not work out. Signed on, the producers gave top billing 500K and a profit percentage. But Redford also got 500k. I don't know if he got a profit percentage.

It worked out pretty well for Newman. This was the last of this 50s, 60s era, Newman, and then he starts in the mid-70s, he's moving towards Slapshot, Verdict Newman. That was going to be one of my takes was that this is the first installment in old Paul Newman, you know, where his hair is more gray, mustache, like, it's a new era.

It's a compromise, though, I think, because the original version of the story is, like, he's supposed to be fat and old, and he's supposed to be, like, basically giving the keys to Hooker and is not in the movie very much, apparently in the original script. And Newman was like, I'll do it, but, like, I do my notes.

Yeah, I get a lot more minutes played on, I got a lot more time on the court. Yeah. And a lot more shots. I mean, just the poker scene alone, it's worth it to Paul Newman. It's like for his time, not to mention the movie was a massive success, but that nine minutes, he's just cooking all-time cooking. Sorry, I was taking a crap. It's an incredible line. And then Redford, which I guess we probably would probably.

We should have talked about him more at the top since it's Redford month, but we have five movies talk about it. But he's in the middle of one of the best five-year runs of all time. The candidate, Jeremy Johnson, the way we wear, this thing, Great Gatsby. They re-released, Bush, Sundance, that crush. Great Walter Pepper didn't do great. Three days of the Condor, all the President's men, all in five years. Unbelievable.

Unreal. And by that time, all the President's men, it happens. He's a producer on the film. He's starting to get his tentacles out. He's thinking about directing. You know, I was going to ask you guys, both Big William, Goldman Readers and William Goldman writes so well about star power and the way that it emerges. I don't know. You would probably know better than me at what the timeline is. But these guys essentially

are like, I know that if I sign on this movie gets made, this movie gets a really good runway, a really good runway to success. Were people like that using their power in the 60s? Is this like kind of a new phenomenon in the 70s that goes along with New Hollywood? 100% new phenomenon. I actually think Redford is in the running for maybe inventing it. Well, I think he, I think like John Wayne could do this. Like John Wayne could say, but what John Wayne, 80% of the time would be like, let's just get John Ford to do it. You know, like he had his teams and stars have their teams and the people that they like to work with and Howard Hawks and George Q-Corps and all these well-known figures. Redford in particular, this movie, I think, is the perfect movie to have that conversation about because, and I'm sure you have this in the notes.

But David Ward, who wrote the movie and Julia Phillips and Michael Phillips, the producers and Tony Bill, basically brought the movie to really. basically brought the movie to Redford and they were like, what do you think? And David Ward said he was going to direct the movie. It was going to be his first film as a director. And Redford was like, no, this movie's too complicated. We need a real master craftsman

to make this movie work. And he went to George Roy Hill, who they just made Butch casting us on Nass Kidway. Our fucking guy, George Roy Hill. And he used that power that you're talking about to basically decline on the movie. And he says that George Roy Hill got his hands on the script, my theory is that he passed this script

to George Roy Hill. Seems kind of likely. And that George Roy Hill was like, hey, guys, I'm interested in this movie. And then all of a sudden the studio is like, oh, my God, we could get George Roy Hill and Robert Redford together. And they have Paul Newman's phone number. Let's do that. They have, like, great stories on the 4K of this has a great making of where they have completely opposing memories

of how the movie came together. Like, Newman's like, oh, they're at my apartment. They're twisting my arm. and I'm like, guys, I don't know. And then an elevator skips a floor, and I'm like, all right, I'll do it. And then Redford's like, I have no memory of an elevator. It seems like Paul Newman wanted to see this movie. And he's like, his mind is going, what can you do?

Yeah, well, this is, I mean, this is a real problem with Redford and Goldman, one of the many reasons they had such a, such a feud. But Redmond, Redford came up with this whole alternate version of all the president's men in the early 2010s. And basically, it was like, Goldman wrote one script. I did everything. But I do think he had that side of them, which I think it was a little prickly in some ways in Hollywood because he would just be like, somebody brought me this script. We'll cut that guy out.

He's very cut through it. Yes. In a way that I think more actors probably are now. The thing is the kind of apology for it is he was so shrewd. Like he really had great taste. And when he would take a movie away from someone, he was often putting it in the hands of another really good artist. Yeah.

So it's easy to kind of make allowances for it because he just made so many good movies in a row for a 20-year period of time that he was kind of able to get away with being as intense with this stuff as you're saying. I guess Beatty becomes this at a certain point, right? Nicholson. Beatty was way more transparent about it, though. Yeah. Like, I think he really frustrated a lot of people and was famous on lollygagging around with scripts and being way more cutthroat overtly than Redford was. I think Redford was way more Michael Corleone-ish. Yeah. Like, we gotta get this guy out.

And it's like, there's stories about Beatty taking like two years to say no to something. Yeah. And he wanted to kind of lead everyone along on everything. He both of them had the same, not issue, but they always wanted to be the hero. Redford was very, very calculated. There was that famous story about him and the verdict. Where he was like, that guy's a loser. We got to make him less of a loser.

And they're like, the guy is a loser. That's how we're making the movie. And he's like, well, I'm out. Yeah, Redford, I feel like both in front of the camera. and behind the scenes throughout his entire career really worked hard to burnish this vision of dignity, right? That he was very rarely. Yeah, exactly. That there was something kind of moving him forward through the universe that was very powerful.

And that made him a great star, not always a great actor because he didn't always play characters that you could empathize with. Yeah. He always just felt so heroic and magical and perfect. And that has probably why he's never been in my personal, mega pantheon. Like, he's not a top five actor for me because he makes a similar kind of movie over long period of top five choice actor though. Yeah, he made, I mean, he made great movies.

Yeah. I think that he's, he's, Cruz is more part of his lineage, you know, whereas I try to think, I guess DeCaprio would be more of like the Newman lineage of like, I'm really looking for provocative work to work with really interesting filmmakers. I'll turn my trust over to them and have them depict me how they see fit. I think Redford was like, if people are going to pay to come. a Robert Redford movie. Robert Redford needs to do these five things.

And it wasn't as locked in as like Eastwood, but it was pretty, you're right. Like, I don't remember the names of a lot of Redford characters, but I remember the movies perfectly. Well, he had a couple moves with the characters, right? Because for a while, he's playing the 1970s versions of the cruise roles, right? Downhill Racers is a cruise character, you know?

The candidate, you can't. could have seen Cruz potentially in that. It would have been a little bit of a push farm. But three days of the condor is a classic Cruz movie. I think Cruz easily could have been Hooker. But then he also, he had that... He arguably is Hooker in Color of Money. You know what I mean?

Yeah, but that's, I think, the thing that Sean's hit not, that there was a spot he wouldn't go to. Even like he does Brewbaker, it's basically Robert Redford. It's the thing that I think separates Denzel from him. Is Denzel every once in a while we'll just fucking go for it with some... Some role where you're like, wow, Dents out. I mean, he almost never did something morally reprehensible on screen, you know? No.

Like, literally not until he was in like a Marvel movie. I know. Like, would Redford have been in out of time? Would Redford have been in flight? Would, right? Yeah, it's, I think that the candidate is interesting because that guy is like kind of an empty suit for the whole movie. And then that incredible conclusion where you're like, you know, what do we do now is, is morally complicated? But he doesn't, like, kill a guy in cold blood.

No. You know, he doesn't, like, throw a woman down the stairs. Like, in the 70s, all these guys were making, you know, Pacino and De Niro, they were playing these really complicated men. And he was always like, he was the spirit of America. It was a changing America, but he was, like, a positive force in the world. He wouldn't have played Neil Macaulay. No.

He was Roy Hobbs. He was Roy Hobbes. He did Rob Banks in the Hot Rock. Yeah. He did Rob Banks one time. One of my favorites of his. Yeah. Yeah.

he's really good in this movie it's the most it's the hardest he's worked I think at a movie from a charisma look at my personality look at lay and I don't I don't think after this movie I don't remember him doing that again

like Waldo Pepper I think was a little charismatic but not like this this guy's like this is the most fun role in the movie and you wouldn't have normally you would have expected Newman to have it you know I can't remember too many movies where he smiles this much yeah

I mean, this is a real, like, it's hard to pick nits with this movie because it just looks like the people making it or having the time of their life. And you parisocially are like, just want to hang out. Like, if you guys wanted to do an hour-long version of those guys drinking Schlitz and trying to figure out what Konda run, I probably would have watched it. Let's take a break and we'll talk about Robert Shaw. This episode is brought to by State Farm. Life is full of decisions big and small. Like, let's not throw to AJ Brown this week. It's a small decision.

Big decision. Let's try to beat the Cowboys. Sometimes you make a decision you can really, really stand behind. I'm trying to think, like, I guess when we formed a ringer. Yeah. And we were like, we feel like we can pull this off. We don't care if we're independent. We feel like podcast could be a big thing of this.

And we'll see where it goes. Trust our guts. Yeah, you stood behind us. Spent a lot of time together. Just brainstorming, figuring out. that stuff. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference. That's why with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to create an affordable price for you. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can

choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer availability amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Shaw, the third piece of this movie. This is not just a Newman and Red for a movie. It needs Robert Shaw. Robert Shaw's only 45 in this movie. Unbelievable. Are you older than Robert Shaw in this movie?

You're older than Robert Shaw in this movie. Not quite. I'm getting there. I got more great hair than he does, though. Robert Shaw 45. I think he polishes his hair. The shoe shine. Robert Shaw makes the sting, Pelham, one, two, three, jaws, Robin and Marion, Black Sunday in the Deep in five years, and then just dies in

1970s of basically natural causes. He dies 50 because his body was just like, we're done. Can I take it half-ass internet research and put it up here? Yeah. After they finished filming this movie, apparently. Oh, I had this in the Steven Segal shooting themselves a word for... George Roy Hill and Robert Shaw go to West Ireland to party and go on like a one-week

pub crawl bender that ends with Robert Shaw in his underwear playing a guy in ping pong. Screaming one more game, you bastard. And then he fucking died. So Shaw was in that class. of guys with Richard Harris and Peter O'Toole and Oliver Reed who just like absolutely drank themselves to death. Yeah, just could not stop drinking.

And some of them, like Oliver Reed made it to like 75. And he was drinking like shots with the gladiator cast. Yeah. Yeah, he'll said he kind of like passed out after a day and a half and then woke up and heard Sean in his underwear screaming at some dude playing pink pong. These guys are like, we did all the Jaws stuff about him daring Dreyfuss and like basically like,

bullying him to climb up to the top of the boat and then they had to intervene and like, dude, we're not doing this. Isn't it so funny though? Like, he's obviously a very decorated actor. He's in a man for all seasons, right? He's one of the great, great movie actors. But the more his, like, life physically is getting out of control, the more exciting it is to watch him in a movie.

Yeah. The more of a mess he becomes, the more, like, it's just, Quint is intoxicated when he's on screen in that movie. Same thing with this movie. I mean, he's like kind of a one-dimensional bad guy in this movie. He's just angry, the whole movie. But there's just something about him that you can't look away from. Angry and gullible.

I tried to do as much Shaw research as possible. Sadly, I couldn't find a lot more than the Jaws thing. But one of the things was Sean Connery was like his natural rival. Oh, yeah. He hated Sean Connery and felt like they were basically birded magic. Was it from Russian with love? Yeah, they went up against each other. Yeah.

And it was like the Scottish Irish thing, but it was just like that guy's in my way. It's like one of those type things. And there's like, that whole scene from Russia with Love where he's like, I'm basically you're, like he's pretending to be his like counterpart.

And it's like, this guy could have been Bond. This is crazy. I miss the days when a 45 year old could look like him. Yeah. Like, yeah. Sean McVeigh is like 45.

Do you think about in that context? Robert Shaw looks like he's in his mid-60s in this movie. Yeah. Well, think of just the timbre of his voice. It just sounds like he was born in 1740. I'm also trying to imagine Robert Shaw wearing joggers and crushing tape. Yeah, and of war he had.

Yeah. So he dies in 1978. And let's just say there wasn't like a big police investigation on maybe what happened. They're like, yeah, Robert finally died. Just getting after it. Supporting cast, Eileen Brennan, Ray Walson, Charles Durning, and our guy, Jack Kehoe, we have another category for we'll get to later. But Robert Earl Jones is Luther.

Yeah. Father of James Earl Jones, who was like kind of, kind of in a whole bunch of shit for a while, like 30s, 40s, 50s. He's kind of playing the James Earl Jones part in this movie. Yeah. You can see that they have a connection.

So we mentioned the title cards, and then Scott Joplin's The Entertainer was adapted by your guy, Marv Hamlish. What a year for Marv. Marv had a huge year. Incredible 1973. The way we were in this, multiple Oscars. He's Barbara's guy, right?

Like, he's always tinkling the ivory. Among many other people's guy. And then it was based apparently maybe on this book in 1940, the big con. Yeah, David Marr. Who then sued them and David S. Ward was still mad about it. David Sward, we have that category sometimes where I think you might be involved in the Wikipedia in this because there's a lot of... Some specific details.

But very specific, like, although there was no way they plagiarized the book, they had to settle to get to avoid the publicity. It was one of those. And then his wife won the Bel Air Forest Competition. Really? Really? Okay. Very strange

IMDB though because eventually he writes Major League, the program, and Sleepless in Seattle. Just becomes like, he said he was inspired to write this thing

while researching pick pockets. David Ward's fifth attached rewatchables? I think it is. We don't have a screenwriter rankings yet, but. Well, and when you do the Malagro Beanfield War

later on in the Redford Month. There we got. We'll have six David Ward films. This movie won seven Oscars. Best Picture and Director, writing, editing, score,

costume design, production design. Ten nominations. Had a top ten song and it hits soundtrack. This is one of the higher percentages Academy Awards-wise. 70%.

Yeah, seven out of ten is pretty good. There are a couple movies that have won 11 out of 12. Are you good with this over American graffiti and The Exorcist? I'm not. I'm not. It's not better than either of those films,

in my opinion. And the Exorcist not winning is a goddamn nightmare. Yeah. One of my hottest takes is The Exorcist. I knew we'd get into it at some point. And I think we did this when we did The Exorcist. We all like the Sting.

I like the Sting. I like the Sting for what it is is perfect. But the Exorcist is a way more important movie. How about the fact they came out on the same day? Fucking hell. Remember when we had movies? We're coming back. We're doing great.

We're doing great. We're never going to have comedies anymore, but we're doing great. Can I pitch one of my takes at you? Yeah. December 1970. at the movies. Here are the films that were released. Serpico,

the French animated movie Fantastic Planet in the Criterion collection. The Wicker Man, The Three Musketeers, The Last Detail, Popillon, Woody Allen Sleeper, Amercard, the Fellini movie. Then on Christmas Day,

Magnum Force, the Dirty Harry sequel, The Sting, and The Exorcist. Is that the best month in movie history? It's right... It's right when movies probably mattered the most

for entertainment. What are you doing? Let me go to the movies for nine hours. That's insane. Yeah. And all, I mean, you know, the year itself is also amazing. It's like, that's Paper Moon.

That's American graffiti, as you said. There's a ton of other great stuff. But that month in particular is mind-blowing. Best directing George Royale wins. He beats Lucas Bergman Friedkin Bertilucci. Some scalps that year, man. Heavy hitters. And then Redford, only nomination ever for acting does not win.

This is crazy. I didn't know this until I was reading about this thing. I couldn't believe that. I'll wait for my hottest take Okay Jack Lemon wins for Save the Tiger I think we've shown about that one now I mean this is part of the long

Domino history of makeup awards where like he probably should have won for the apartment or days of wine and roses or something like that and because he didn't Pacino doesn't win for Serpico which is a sin he should have won for Serpico and then Pacino doesn't win until scent of a woman and then who was

Then Joel and B'd beat Yokage that year Oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm getting confused. I mean, same problem. Exact same problem. Are you, so you think Pacino over Nicholson for last detail? It's okay for me to accept that because Nicholson wins for One Fulver the Cuckoo's Nest two years later. Pacino for Serpico, come on.

Last detail is incredible. I love both. We have to do Pacino Month before Pacino dies. I don't like that we did Redford. We needed a death to trigger Redford Month. Two for the money. Looking for Richard. Two for the money is I'm gambling.

month. We already had that one planned out. I'm gambling again. I'm gambling again. Got to hear my fan, Angel. What else is in Pacino month? Well, there's a bunch good ones left. Yeah. We have some dog day afternoon we haven't done yet. We've done Scarface.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Wow. There's some big ones left. 5.5 million dollar budget for this movie made 257. That would be like 900 million now, right? One of the most profitable movies is all time. I think they said if you adjusted it, it's like the biggest non-

IP movie, probably ever. Although there is a sequel. We don't talk about the sequel. Second biggest movie in 73 Exorcist was first. Graffiti was third. Redford had two in the top five. Our guy, Raj, Roger Ebert,

four stars. Bang. One of the most stylish movies of the year. Really enjoyed it. You know who didn't enjoy it? Pauline Kale. We have fuck you, Raj, and now we have settled down Pauline.

She wrote, meant to be roguishly charming entertainment. And that's how most of the audience takes it. But I found it visually claustrophobic and totally mechanical. It keeps cranking on section after section, and it doesn't have a good spirit. Cranking on, you say. These pleaves liked it, but not me.

Let me ask you a question. I mean, this is why Pauline's stuff was so fun to read, because half the time you're just like, come on! Do you think you would be friends with Pauline? He would definitely have tried to hire Pauline and Caleb. Well, that's for sure. But would you, because you would have been like, God damn, didn't see this one coming. And you love when someone just curveballs you. I mean, she probably had the most zags of any critic of all time.

Yeah. But she had her guys, too. She had her people. I would have absolutely tried to hire. I would have been friends of there. And there probably would have been multiple times where we didn't talk. Yes. Two grudge holders.

Yes. Yeah. Like, she would have. You would send Sean a note saying you can't let Pauline write stuff like this. I need you to call Pauline and tell her she's fucking wrong about the same. Tell Pauline, this is we can't have this. You're running the New Yorker in 19, would be amazing.

Yeah. I would have been off for the Zags, but there's just sometimes where she was just, she just got, she just put her, put her shoes in the ground and just.

Bill's editing, Sy Hirsch. Well, Wesley Zags, I always love the Wesley Zags. At least he put some thought in them. A Zag artist. I mean,

her pieces are amazing to read. They're amazing. It just seems like they're written from another planet. Can you think of the best, visually claustrophobic is such like a weird, how do you even come up with that? Well, so I would say that it's a film,

where he, like, was inspired by 1930s movies to not have a lot of extras in it. And there are several scenes where it's like late at night. There's only three people in this diner, you know, like... It's also because those movies were all made on soundstages and they chose to shoot this movie on sound stages. And so it's a fake world. Like, you're in somebody's dream idea of a 1935 movie instead of what 1935 actually looked like. Nothing is worn down. Nothing feels real. It's all this kind of like elevated production design. So I get what she's saying, but I don't know, the movie's pretty loose and fun. Like, it doesn't feel claustrophobic at all.

I just love that all her takes. I think I go back and read them sometimes. I really enjoy it. She just is like, here are my thoughts. Like, nobody does that anymore. So yeah, she would have driven me crazy. I would have been mad at her like three times, but ultimately I would have loved having her in my life.

Do you think Pauline Kale would have like one battle after another? I know that she would have. Oh, yeah. You know that she would have. Interesting. You talk to her in a Ouija. There's so many things in it that are like the things that turned her on. Yeah.

All right. Let's do most rewatchable scene. The first con, the switch in the pants with Luther. It's great stuff. Guy comes up to you. This isn't going to work, though. It's 1936. Give me all the money in your breast pocket.

Yeah. And I want to show you what I'm going to do with it. What are you doing? You're the one who carries cash still. I think I only have $10 in my pocket. I used to carry like $500 every day, but I don't do that anymore. I always had no less than $400 on me. Yeah.

I was just in Boston for eight days. I never used a dollar bill. That's what I was going to say. Aside from tipping people, when's the last time you handed someone $20 to pay for something? Yeah, you can't do the sting now because it would be like, you'd be like stealing somebody's Wi-Fi. Yeah. Give me your social security number. A Bitcoin sting would suck.

That's my take. Wasn't that what, no, that's not what the runner-runner would. about, right? The Affleck thing? Yeah, that one, yeah. I don't recall. I really like this scene. It's a good way to kick the movie off.

Yeah. Fast forward about 35 minutes to Lonagame pickpocketed on the train. Newman showing off car tricks to Redford. The gin trick, which I know CR still obeys. Every time I do the watch. And then Newman playing poker.

I think this whole 10 minutes is just, he's got to like make that one long giant scene. Always drink gin with a Mark kid. They can't tell if you cut it. Great stuff. So you're skipping over hooker loses it roulette. We can put it in. It makes me mad because I know that they're establishing that he's a loser and compulsive.

But I just don't think you would bet the 3,000 right away. You can't be a good gambor and a bad gambor at the same time. You're having a night out. I had this for nipicks for later. You're basically you're paying 500 a hand You're spreading it out You're not just doing that It's also good because it's like

Even though he's hit this big payday He you might as well just like the money on fire He wouldn't he doesn't know what to do with it It needs to be a more significant victory than cash What about the scene when Hooker gives Snyder Charles Durning the counterfeit money I like that scene I actually don't have a lot of rewatchable scenes But I do like both of those scenes

They're like world to stashions Yeah I was trying to scale it down for the rewatchable scenes I like both of those though The poker, there's some nitpicks with the poker we can get into later, but I really enjoy this scene. And Newman's hilarious and... So fun. And somehow ends up with four jacks.

It's hilarious in this. Give me the deck with the threes and nines. Do you think it was all threes and nines? I don't know enough about poker to even guess. I don't even know how they could have arranged that. And obviously, what did he have? He had his jacks up his sleeve, I suppose, for the big win. Yeah, because he kept doing...

Yeah, he's up against his body. somehow. His comic acting in that scene is so great. He was just looking behind him. I was trying to think how many stars ever are as good in that scene as he is. Like, you really need to have the right amount of charisma. You got to be kind of a scumbag,

but I'm still rooting for you. He doesn't get his ass kicked, which is important. You know, he's pushing the line. There's something. Not a lot of dudes. Leo, Wolf of Wall Street, Leo is a little bit. That's a good one. Sure. There's something.

interesting about Newman with that because he was a functioning alcoholic for like 30 years and he would drink like 12 beers a day and the whole thing with dipping his face in the cold water and he does it in three other movies Ruffalo does it in task. Does he really? That's a thing that he did every day

because he drank every day. And in that scene he's playing drunk but he spent his whole life pretending he wasn't drunk So there's like a really interesting dynamic going on there. Do you think he's, like, is he loaded during movies, like when you're watching him? I assume not when he's filming. Yeah. I mean, the stories are legion of him just crushing every day.

And now he lives on in the spirit of my mom. Sorry, not sorry. Hooker sells Lonigan on Double Crossing Newman. It's like, whoa. In the train. Is this real? Is this not real? What's going on here?

The fake blue note race that Shaw wins. Really good stuff. We're entering this whole other world in the movie. Newman Redford have a good scene with the Revenge's for Sucker scene. So why are you doing it? Seems worthwhile, isn't it? I just like seeing them in a scene. Salino, the assistant, gets killed.

I think CR was a little sweet on Salino. Yeah, yeah. Not a traditional Hollywood beauty. It's 2 a.m. we're both lonely. Blue plate special between us. Well, she's been around. Yeah. Like she could show you some things.

Sure. Yeah. He's going to silence her. Her getting killed is a good. Wait, what? She's the assassin. Yeah. And then the final con.

Really good stuff. You're not going to stick around for your share. Nah, I'd only blow it. My favorite's the poker scene. That's my most rewatchable. The poker's pretty high up there. I honestly have one. My most rewatchable scene you did not mention,

which is the first time Gondorf and Hooker meet. And Gondorff's way hungover. Yeah. He's like Luther said I could learn. from you. I already know how to drink. Like, every line is perfect. The two of them jousting is perfect. The obvious affection that they have for each other,

but also, like, you kind of can't decide whose movie this is going to be in that scene. And you never really figure it out. And I love Newman in that scene. That's a great pick. I would do the poker scene as well for obvious poker reasons, yeah. What's the most 1973 thing about this movie?

It's a hard one because it said in 1936 Chicago, but I still have an answer. I have one thing. So this is a movie about the depression, but it seems like a charming throwback because enough time has passed that generationally. That it can seem fun.

Yeah. Like this would be if there was a movie in 2062 about right now, you'd be like, oh, there's some like, isn't that interesting? Whereas like living here right now, we live in hell right now. It's a weird time to be alive.

But when enough time passes, what feels like the worst thing in the universe has a kind of chunk. I thought you were going to mention Eddington there. I mean, part of the reason why I like that movie is because I've seen very few movies that are like, it's as bad as it seems. You know what I mean? I want to do a family rom-com about how much weirdly fun the first two months of COVID was because you just stuck with your wife and kids. It was the most time I spent with my kids probably ever

for the rest of my life and now I'm nostalgic for it but we were Paul fearing for death and we couldn't leave our house. You were at the perfect time in your life though. I was, it was great. Ask a parent who had like a four-year-old and a one-year-old what was like to have kids then.

I didn't say it was rational. Every part of COVID was horrible but the one thing was like, oh, we were all kind of hanging out. You're trying to get through it. You were like right at the precipice of empty nest, right? I was doing some seasonal cleaning of my house and came across like a bunch of the

what we thought were like suitable masks from really early COVID but it's just like some woman made it on Etsy and it's like it says like we'll get through this together knit across the front. Yeah just

air just flying into it. I had like a fucking Liverpool like what's the thing of the survivor that they get oh the buffs yeah I had a Liverpool buff and I was like this will keep me safe from the novel coronavirus You've had COVID, what, eight times now? How many times have you had it?

The guy still haven't, yeah. You were talking to Newsom a lot back then. That's right, me and Gab. The Gavin said, stay away from the beaches. It can really spread there off the water. How's your pod with Gab going? Yeah. Surprisingly hasn't been picked up by Spotify.

I don't know. It's only a little. That's funny. I have for the most 1973 thing, Robert Shaw not seeming like he's 65 years old because he's actually 45. I just think that's a different air of actor. Yeah.

You see all these dudes and you're like, and then pay phones, how it's like a nostalgic version of the payphone in these movies. And now payphone, I just see, I notice pay phones when I see them in movies now. Because they're so far removed from society. It is weird to see one. There is one in one battle after another, actually,

in a pivotal scene in the movie. But, yeah. I mean, when's the last time you saw one in the wild? I can't even remember. I've seen them in Philly, but they're like completely stripped for parts to the extent that there are any parts in there. Did you write any pay phones in the task

when you're working on the episodes? What age is the best? What do you got, C.R.? Well, let's see. You know what? Sean mentioned something about, um, about like looking back romantically on the,

on the 1930s. And I did feel like the thing that's maybe aged the best about this movie is that it inverts everything it's about. So it's like a movie about the depression, but all these guys are dressed really snazzy. And they're like in cool bars and there's money flying around. A lot of close cash, yeah. This is a movie about like an incredibly anxious, tight situation.

And everybody is cool as shit. Nobody's like, I haven't had a meal in eight days. Yeah, nobody's like, man, I'm really sweating this. What if we fuck up? It's like, hey, kid, what's the worst that could happen? He could kill you. And it's like, that's what makes it work. The stakes are so high, but the guys are so cool.

And you watch this and you're like, This is just everything from Oceans 11 is just drawn directly from this. It's a great take. Good room. I have great clothes in this movie, the three-piece suits and fedoras. Just really enjoyable. Apparently, he started a little fashion trend in the in the 73-74 range with the suits. Would you ever do an episode of this show where we had to dress up like the costume?

Yeah, from the movies. We dressed like golfers for tin cup. That was fun. Yeah, I don't know if... You did? Well, we just were like wearing... Okay. House just dressed the way house dresses.

We just dressed like house, basically. I have fixing races, counterfeit money, cheating at poker. These are all very much still a lot. All these things that just seemed like they were way easier to do once upon a time. And now it would be way harder. It made me think like, you know, Jonte Porter is probably watching us going, man, in 1936, I really could have been cooking. Yeah.

had cooked back then. He would just be, people would believe anything. Just give them fake money. They wouldn't look at it. It is funny. Easier times. Are you ever on like a group text about a game and you're watching it on cable so you're

ahead by like a minute? Yeah. You can't like because like yesterday I was on, I was watching the Eagles on cable, but Andy and Zach were watching on like YouTube TV. And I kept being like, holy shit. And they'd be like, we're not there yet. But I was like, you could be like, no, not jailing hurts.

I just watched them die for me. I thought you were going to bring... That looked like his name. That's not in contact. You hate to see that. I thought you were going to bring up how easy it was to identify Tony point shaving in blue chips. You know, it was like, that was 35 years ago. And it was like, we just watched the VHS tape.

And it was very clear that he was doing it. No, no, man. Not Tony. Redford running. He spends a lot of time running in this one. He does. He does. Cruise-esque.

Yeah, Cruz. I was going to do this later. happy to do it now. Just best A-list acting runner. Redford versus Cruz. I think Redford has a real case. Also, kind of underrated in the great athlete stars.

We're talking about Reynolds and Cruz and all these guys who do all stuff. But skiing, baseball, you know, I guess he doesn't appear in the legend of Bagger Vance, but that's a golf movie. Somewhere Gilbert Arenas is like, Redford was a bucket. Who's a better runner than Cruz?

Are they in the finals for sprint Cruz versus Redford? In the sprinting A-list finals? Is there anybody else? The question is whether or not Redford can go straight into tumbling the way Cruz does in the firm, you know, straight into like somersaults. I mean, the firm for 10 minutes, Cruz is sprinting. Yes.

He sprints into an office, jumps out of a window, sprints, goes to that tram thing, sprints again. Sprints to Arkansas, basically. I mean, I think he's still the goat. He's the goat of running. Here's another one, what's the jubes best, pretending to be drunk. than you are when you're gambling. I know Sean's done this.

Have you? I haven't. It's not really my thing. Because I'm just not a big talker at the table. Yeah, you got your air pot on. I don't talk a lot of shit, yeah. How about characters name Horse Face Lee, Slim Miller,

suitcase Murphy, the Boone Kid, Daffy Burke, Limehouse Chappie? I was wondering whether you would put this group up against the Goodfellas nicknames. They're really good. Big Alabama.

Crying Jonesy? Big Alabama, crucially from New Orleans, though. Right. And then we have Nothing on Nikki two times. We also have a Leroy and a Luther and a hooker. Yeah.

Pickpocketing. It's age the best? Has age the best? I think it's an underutilized movie device at this point. Maybe because it should almost be phone pocketing instead of wallets. Pick up on South Street, Sam Fuller movie, incredible pickpocketing scene, and then Linus from Ocean's 11. It's an all-time pickpocketer.

Another 48 hours, really good pickpocketing scene. Saving it for movies I like to hate watch month. What's age the best? Any train trip with stars where you feel like something might happen? Oh, yeah. The trading place is corollary. Love it.

It's like, oh, we're going to be on a train for a little while. This would be good. That's great. You and Sal should do guess the lines, but like from L.A. to San Diego. Yeah. Shaw limps in this movie because he injured his leg playing handball.

That was the official explanation. And they just told him to use the limp for the character. You just fell down a staircase. After nine scotches. From what we know about Robert Chau, would you go a Dore A handball, a handball accident, or Dore B? Yeah. Doorbby 38 drinks on a Sunday night and fell down a flight of stairs. I don't know.

What's age the best? Not only Schlitz in bottles. Schlitz was the biggest beer in America in the 30s, but also guys drinking beers because it's too early to start drinking in the morning. So they'll have like a beer for breakfast. Right. Right. That's what I do.

Do you think that just everybody before, like, 1964 was shithoused the entire day? I mean, that's basically what bad men's about. Can we talk, let's talk about drinking for a second. But then they all died when they were, like, 51. Okay, this is my thing. They got the most out of life, though. I know you don't drink as much as you did

when you were in your 20s and 30s, right? Fair to say? So not even close. Fair to say, definitely not. So neither do I, and I know you don't either, right? I mean... You've never been a huge, a tonnage drinker. I still drink five days.

C.R. is in black tar heroin now. That's right. Cleaner. What happens to your body where you get to a certain age and then they're like, if you cross the two drink thresholds, and they're like, no, I will make this really hard on you the next day in a way that you never, ever understood it. What is the...

Because these guys who were talking about, when I was growing up, I was like, well, this is what men do. They have eight drinks and it's fine. But then you learn a little bit more about life, and more or less you die at 50 in your sleep when you drink this way. It's just not... Or playing handball. Yeah.

I think it's pretty simple. The more you drink, the worse you sleep, and the worse you sleep, the faster you die. Okay. I'll go with that because I definitely sleep much worse when I drink now, as opposed to even 10 years ago. Well, especially if you're having like two, three glasses of wine, just the sugar from that, if you're having a little later. Like, you know... Keep you up. I mean, we were talking...

I saw a bunch of my bunch of buddies this summer for different reasons, including... my old high school buddies. We would talk about how I would, all of us would, we would drink Jack and Cokes, but then I would have like six Marlboro Lights and I'd have eight Jack and Cokes, and then I would wonder why,

like I woke up at 4.30 in the morning. Then I would clean out some Moroccans playing pool. But I'd wake up at 4 in the morning with my, like, thinking I was going to have a heart attack. Like, oh, really? That's what you'd read a draft diary. Yeah. And ate coax and cigarettes.

It is like a real confrontation with middle age, though, where you're like, I had two and a half drinks and I've awoken at 4 a.m. and I'm like sweating. Whereas in the past, that was like work. I agree with you, but I do think that there's something, there's like an environmental thing where it's like if you're very aware of what it's going to do and everybody's having conversations like this, like, oh, my sleep, my sleep. Do you think any man before the Vietnam War talked about what kind of sleep they were getting? No, that's a good point.

Not that I want to go back to that. I'm just saying that if you were just like, I have to suffer in silence. I woke up three times to pee. The greatest generation did not need to listen to the Huberman Lab podcast. That was not important to them. Robert Scha apparently was a huge infrared sauna guy though.

Yeah, that's what he said. But Redford looks like a guy who's never had a drink in his life. Newman, part of what's so interesting about him is he was so beautiful and always so fit even though he was drinking a case of beer. That's because he took pure sunlight.

That's right. Yeah, he swamming in festive rivers. Strong constitution. There's one other Woodsage the best, and I encourage people to go watch this on YouTube. Liz Taylor presents the best picture for this thing. Liz Taylor, I'm not saying she's the hottest woman of all time,

but she just make sure you mention her from 58 to 70. Menture who. Yeah. Just if the conversation's being had, just bring her up. Okay. So she looks great. She looks great. Okay.

This is getting a little like your Sinatra take. Go ahead. Sinatra was the coolest person overlived. Yeah, definitely. That's right. I won that argument. Everyone says... Yeah, everyone says that.

For sure. People are saying... People are saying I won. It wasn't an argument. Liz Taylor still looks like lights out in 1973. Goes up to do Best Picture. The Streaker had just happened. Yes.

And she's frazzled by the streaker. and trying to get through the things. And she stops at one point, and she's like, I'm sorry, I'm still a little whatever, and then gets through it, the sting wins, and then one of them is like,

I can't believe, oh, Julia Phillips. I can't believe I'm up here with Liz Taylor, and you hear Liz Taylor are like happily laughing. It's just like, it's very Hollywoody. Everything about the Oscars back then,

it wasn't as polished as now. Yeah. And it's just like, eh, everybody's just going. They're probably all bombed before they get there. They're not worried about like the red car

being interviewed by somebody. Yeah, in 73, Liz Taylor, I think at that point, had been married to Richard Burton, the other world-class drinker, the Welsh titan of getting hammered. All the dudes from back then. So then Pacino, who was nominated for Best Actor,

he had a whole story about he didn't realize the category was televised, and he was, like, zonked out and drunk. He took a Gazanax or something, right? And thought it was an hour-long show, and it was three hours. So by the third hour, he had the pee. He didn't know whether he could get up.

How does Al Pacino not know how long the Oscars are in 1974? I don't know. There have been two Godfather movies that he is the star of. He's nominated. If you're on value, you're just like, I guess. He was saying he hoped they didn't win because he thought he was like incoherent. But he was treating the Oscars like it was a Starbucks drive-thru. He's like, I'm going to wrap this up and like 20 minutes will be back out on the road.

It's like you've been to the Oscars like five times. This sounds like the best Oscars you could have gone to. It sounds like it was the craziest. The streaker was fun. Where does David Niven rank in your all-time hosts? Because he was the host, and he was the one who had that crack about the shortcomings with the streaker. Yeah.

Yeah. I have him low. Low because he was British? Yeah. David, I think, put close some bars with Robert. This episode is brought to by Pure Michigan. In Grand Rapids, every moment feels like a scene worth replaying. Every riverside stroll, every slow afternoon,

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18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Sure. Oh, yeah. For sure. we'll take a one more break and then we'll do the mini categories okay

Big Kuhna Burger Award for Best Use Food and Drink the fake gin who beat that I had the Blue Plate special Just oh Have you guys ever had a blue plate? What was on it? I don't know he should have had the meatloaf

but she was like it wouldn't be much better That was my dad's podcast that we never gave them at the ringer The Blue Plate Special was going to call it Great Shot Gorder Award most cinematic shot what do you have? I actually went off book here and did Wonderful Edit Willie for William Reynolds, Hollywood editor who did Sound of Music.

See, our zagging like Pauline Kail right, Ra. Davenson. Godfather, just the use of wipes, you know, makes the movie kind of feel like softer than it probably would have been. It's very gritty content, but it's like a very beautiful, like, great edit Willie. Yeah. That's great cut, Willie? Wonderful edit Willie. Wonderful edit Willie. Yeah. He uses the

iris transition as well, right, where the screen shrinks down. Good one. Kid Cuddy Prudadap and it's got to be the entertainer. Yeah. Yes. Chess Rockwell, Brock Lenders were, best character name. I mean, I mentioned 30 of them. Johnny Hooker's really solid, though.

Henry Gondorf. I feel like you hear that name and I can see Newman in my head right away. I do think if you were going to close your eyes and think of an Irish mobster, Dale Lottigan is like as close as you could get. Pretty good. What do you have for a flex category? I had Denne Thieves, Benihana War for Seen Stealing location is the Carousel Horhouse. just you love a good horror house

that movie now is the idea there that you get a ride on the ride like what's the is there like some cross promo yeah but I also just really love the idea that it was like

the girls aren't busy tonight can they ride the carousel can imagine just going downstairs seeing a bunch of hookers on you really gotta like wipe down those those horses on the carous I don't think in the 1930s

they were worried about disinfectant that they were put on there transmission that way there's parts of the 1930s that just sounded a great. 90%

of people having the clap syphilic whorehouses that part baby yeah drinking 16 schlitzes

those schlits in the bottle look I love to take half a million dollars off of an Irish gangster yeah

that sounds really fun Butch's girlfriend award for weak link of the film I have one yeah I have one too so there's like a it's hard to

explain this but there is a subplot of two other Hitman pursuing Hooker. It's Cole and Sullivan. And they're supposed to be taken off the job by

Lonigan who puts Salino on the job, but they stay on it. And it just gets confusing and kind of, it's really a hat on a hat. It's unnecessary to have yet another team of hitman chasing him. And it just really creates more running for Redford. So on 30th rewatch, I was like, I could do without

Colton Sullivan. It doesn't really do anything for the movie. Do you have anything? I don't really think any of the performances are bad. Do you have somebody that you want to point to that doesn't really work? If you say Eileen Brett in, I'm walking out. No, I liked her. I did have the question, how is there not

a 1936 babe in this movie? What are we doing? Yeah, well, you get the the strip tease game at the beginning of the film, yeah. Just some of the people we had in the 73 range. We had young Jane Alexander, we'd Julie Christie

sitting there for one scene. Yeah. We'd die in lad. We'd Tuesday weld. Like, we had, we had the, we had the troops. We could have pulled something off. George Ray Hill was not interested. He's like, this is a guy's movie. I want everybody to look like 1936 people and that's it.

It would be unlikely, I guess, at the time for a woman to be a more elaborate part of a con. But that's where you'd want to see. Yeah. You know, you want a woman who would kind of ensnare Doyle. Maybe Lonigan has a girlfriend that Hooker's going after. Yeah. Mistress. Sure.

Yeah, definitely. That's where we get Christy Canyon, you know. That's right. Well, maybe what's Newman's character's name, Gandalf? Gondorf. Gondorf. Gandalf. Gandolph.

Gandolph the Grey. James Gandalfe. He's an incredible wizard. Maybe he goes and he's going to get food by himself and he sees somebody who works in a bookstore. Yeah. That's one of those. It's like, why are you so interested in what I do, lady?

That's right. You just have one of those scenes. Catherine Ross, a little reunion from Budge-Caston. It's a book about horses. What's the worst? The Secret. You mentioned it earlier. It's really awful.

Mack Davis is in it, Jackie Gleason. The one thing is Jackie Gleason is perfect for Gondorf as he is written in the script. Yeah. Aging, heavy set, really insinuating and knowing. I'm just saying, like, you could have seen a world where this movie was Gleason and Redford, and that would have been coherent. It would have been a different kind of a movie, but it would have been coherent. 80s, HBO, and 80s cable, the Sting and the Sting too were on a lot. And the Stink, too, is really bad.

And it was on for a while for a couple years, unfortunately. A few racial slurs in this movie, not awesome. It's slow in an endearing 70s way, but it is a little slow. It's shaggy. Yeah. Like for, I don't know if my son, Ben Simmons, is making it two plus hours. After the Blue Note scene, it kind of takes its time. Well, because it's like they insist on doing another bet before the sting.

Yeah. Where he's got to get, like, more information. A long time. Yeah. There's a lot of Ray Wall. helping him set up the situation. And who's the other guy? Twist?

Yes. Kid twist. This is what it said in Wikipedia about the author of the big cons selling them and settling out of court for 600K. This is just the Wikipedia excerpt. Universal settled out of court for 600,000. Erking Ward, who resented the presumption of guilt implied by an out-of-court settlement done for business expediency.

see. I didn't know that there was a whole cottage industry of people who kind of trail behind big scripts to make these plagiarism accusations. We just saw this right with the Dave Franco, Alison Brie movie together. There was a big suit about the plot of that movie being lifted from another writer. I wanted to sue for to get my 100 minutes back. The movie fucking sucked.

Listen, I wasn't a big fan either. I didn't sue when I didn't sue when they stole the purge from me. They literally They stole the purge. Yeah. I created the purge. The purge. The purge. You are, you filing an injunction against Blumhouse?

Kevin Wilde and I, half-paked ideas. I did the whole idea about leap-year. It's interesting what you could claim, you know? Diaries. I said on leap year, there are no rules, no crimes. It's one day. I did a whole thing about it. And then the purge happened.

Don't you know Grillo? I could you ask you about it? No, you know. No bad ideas in a brainstorm. But yeah, you're right. This is a cottage industry. Yeah. that's the thing.

I mean, if you want to shift the sort of business strategy of the ringer full stop to you suing guys who had ideas that you had ideas

that you had a year. You watch the Eapier and you watch the purge. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. They also apparently plagiarized some 1958

Maverick television series episode with James Garner. Oh. There was some stuff online about that. Another great conman movie. Inspired by a

Orson Wells radio play, the three lives of Harry Lyme, there's some similarities apparently in the story. It's a con movie. Overacting award.

Redford dialing up like two or three times here and uncharacteristic for Redford ways. Kiho? Well, that's the thing though, right? Kehoe kind of... Come on, Chencer!

Yeah, but even before he even before he's doing the con you know, like in the bar with Charles Durning, he's laying it on. Oh yeah, he enrolled in detective school. Yeah. I got Lonigan being, like, the name's Lannikin, don't you forget it.

Did you think Sierra would be talking like Robert Shaw this whole movie? I was hoping. I'm just mad we're not doing Irish Mob Month now. What else would be in the mix there? State of Grace. In New York and Bruges? Yeah, in Bruges, yeah. Got a fourth one?

No, not off the top of my head. Do you? I guess the Irishman. Yeah, sure. That works. It does work. You have a flex category. I'm going to,

call my own number and do a criteria orgasm. You know, I had it, just in case you didn't do it, I had it for later, but let's do it. So the rigged Black 22 on the roulette wheel, where Hooker loses in that scene early in the movie, is the same spot that Rick Blaine uses for both Captain Renault and the Bulgarian couple to set them up to win in Casablanca. A very purposeful homage to Casablanca. Wow. It's a good one.

Trier orgasm. Yeah. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison. for it, hottest take a word. I have one. I have one as well. I kind of tip my hand

with the, this is an all-time classic, but it should not have one best picture. Yeah, okay. I don't even think that's that hot of a take. I wonder if this Exorcist should have won.

This movie is less rewatchable. I shouldn't say I wonder. It's a hottest take. This movie would be less rewatchable, but more interesting if Gondorf betrayed Hooker or vice versa. There was some actual real tension and it wasn't all like play acting for it.

I think it's, great success is because of the spirited vibe you walk out of the movie on. It's happy and you're like yeah. We did it. I think this is not my hottest take, but it's something that I felt watching it. I think this movie is best seen every 10 years because you made this point

earlier. If you forget a few of the plot moments, it's more fun. If you forget that the FBI is fake. Yes. Because if you know the FBI is fake, you're kind of like, all right. Or if you forget Salino, I just forgot Salino. I just, I had forgotten. I forgot. I haven't seen it in nine or ten years.

I remember that there was an alleyway shooting where Redford thinks somebody is walking towards him and then they get killed, but I couldn't remember. There's someone... Every 10 years club. Yeah. The usual suspects. Another good example.

The more details you forget, the more fun it is to revisit. My hottest take is, even though it's his only nomination, this wouldn't make my top 10 performances for Redford. And I think he's better in many other movies. And it's weird that he was never acknowledged as a great actor.

Because he's great in a lot of movies. Can you think of the example of the I can't believe he wasn't nominated for this? Three Days in the Condor to me is one where it's like, that's a really tough performance. And he's like, he's like a, if you compare what he does versus Bady in the Parallax view, Bady is like incoherent. That's a super cool movie. But the performance that Newman gives is, that Redford gives is so interesting in that movie.

Plus, he's, you know, he's iconic and the natural stuff like that. That like, how did he not get recognized for those kinds of movies? And I love him in this. And I think he's really fun. I just think he's a little too old and Newman is a little too young. young. And so him being like the kid again.

He's supposed to be 19 and Newman's supposed to be in his... That's the whole Redford did that for most of his career always playing

somebody who was 10 years old to play. You know, rewatching all the presidents, he's fucking amazing in that movie. Another one he would have been great for.

But unfortunately that was like the most load, I guess he probably could have took Giancarlo Janini's spot. Yeah. Was that for seven beauties?

I just thought he was so good in that movie. that one long scene when he calls, he calls, uh, Kenneth Gall, whatever.

He's doing the little illustrations. But then the other guy calls, and then he has to put the guy on hold. And it's just all one shot. And it's like seven minutes. Is that I have a wife and a child and a dog and a cat? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's fucking crushing it. One nomination is weird. It's a tough one though, because like we do this with sports sometimes when somebody only wins, however many MVPs. We're like, how did that happen?

Like Kobe, they do this with, Kobe and it's like well go through yeah because there's probably one more he should have won but other than that i mean imbid how did he only win one yeah and i don't want to do with invi'd um my hottest take so there's a setup for this there's story about Newman and redford drove porches and loved them they're both big car guys and they became like lifelong friends like they loved each other they actually like uh look for a third movie forever never found it at one point they lived like a mile from each other in Connecticut, and they were like legitimate boys.

And one day Newman stole Redford's Porsche on the set and hid the car and made Redford think someone stole it. And then it was revealed that, no, no, here it is. A ha ha, big laugh. He also had all these pranks with George Roy Hill that went back and forth and led to him sawing George Roy Hill's desk in half. And then he basically won the prank. Did Clooney get all his prank shit from these guys?

This is my hottest take. Where did we go wrong where pranks stopped being cool and just became fucking weird? Because in the 70s, everyone had a great time with pranks. But it would be workplace or aspen. And now it feels like, yeah, it's workplace of arraspin or somebody trying too hard. As you know, my active favorite current meme by far is utter woke nonsense. And I share that meme as often as I can. And being anti-prank is utter woke nonsense in my mind.

Like if CR snuck in your house and stole all of your Blu-rays. Yeah. That would take a long time. All right. He stole like whatever he thought your favorite section. All my grills, yeah. And you just lost your mind. And then it was like, no, I actually have them.

Ha ha ha ha. You'd be like, you fucking psycho. Why'd you do that? Yeah. Something shifted with pranks. I would call the police and tell him that I was robbed. I don't know whether the internet changed the tenor of pranks. Or was Ashton Coucher's punked when,

he made Justin Timberlake cry that time? That's right. Yeah. But somewhere between punked and now, pranks stop being cool. You're not a big prank guy. I don't know. I think that would be the level of like I would have a hard time lying, like pulling off a prank.

But I do find it interesting, the idea of like, I think we're all just worried about like if I just saw it a desk and half at Spotify, would I just immediately like not have access to Slack? You know, like, just saw Jeff Chow's desk in half. Like, what happened to say? I was playing a prank. Yeah.

Casting what ifs. Jack Nicholson offered the lead role, turned it down. His quote afterwards was, I had enough business acumen to know this thing was going to be a huge hit, but Chinatown and the last detail were more interesting films to me.

Just sucking up to show him. It all worked out. It's hard to argue at that point. I do think he would have crushed this movie. It's a kind of movie I wish he had made in the 70s or 80s that he just didn't. He just has so much native charm. He would have been great.

Sterling Hayden turned down the Roll of Doyle. didn't want to shave his beard off. Richard Boone. Richard Boone also dropped that. We were going like, yeah, deep, deep back. Best that guy word. It's got to be Jack Kehoe. I think we're probably the only three people

who know he's Jack Kehoe, right? Yeah, the only other candidate I had was Charles Deer Cop, who's Lonegan's bodyguard, Floyd. Oh, the guy who never talks? Yeah, I haven't a later cat. The guy's the squish nose. I love that guy.

That guy's great. He's in Butch Cassidy. And the guy who's like on the putting green with him. He's like, sees me. Yes. So Jack Keog is that guy from Midnight Run to me.

Yeah. And I gotta say I didn't officially know his name until I researched this. So maybe I better go get some donuts. The only other guy is Harold Gould as kid Twist, who was the guy from the Golden Girls to me.

Oh yeah. And was he on Maud? He was on another show in the 70s as well, but I knew him as a guy from Golden Girls. Better go get us some donuts. Dionne Waiter's a word. That's great news, Jack. Lonigan's henchman, we'd mention him.

Luther, basically two scenes. Salino the assassin. I leave Brandon's eligible, and I really like her in this movie. You don't think she's in too much of it? Maybe she is. So the answer is probably the henchman. Who doesn't, I don't think, have a speaking line. I wanted to put up Dana Elkar as the FBI agent.

Oh, yeah. I feel like he's really good. Because when you first meet him, you totally buy him as the movie is really good at selling. you on the FBI's thing. Where it's like, of course the FBI would be set up in this like abandoned warehouse. That's just what the FBI does. But then in fact, you see that it's actually easier

to set up a false plan here. And Gondor says in the beginning, like the feds are on to me and all that stuff, yeah. I think my vote goes to the henchman. Okay. Because he does, he has no role and no lines and somehow stands out, even when he's behind Newman in the poker scene

and he's just got that look on his face. It's just, I think it's really hard to stand out with no lines. Recasting couch director of City. Can I offer you a job? Jane Alexander is Salino the assassin? Yeah, sure. Okay.

Just a few years before all the president's been. Yeah. Half a certain research. Hill really wanted this to feel like the 1930s, watched a bunch of gangster films, and realized none of them had extras. And that's why this movie, the street seemed so empty.

It was claustrophobic, yeah. Yeah. Which I thought was really interesting because this movie really didn't need extras. But now if they made it, it would be like gangs in New York. There's just people everywhere. Yeah. That is interesting.

I mean, it never really bothered me. It never occurred to me. Why is this not bustling Chicago the way I'd hope? It feels manufactured on purpose. Yes. Yeah. A lot of the cars in this movie were real period cars. And Tony Bill got a lot of them, right?

The producer found some of them. Snyder rejects Billy's drink by pouring it on her hand, and it was an accident. And they improb it, and Ilean Brenner was annoyed. There you go. The movie's filmed in the diner is the same diner that they use for Back to the Future when Marty McFly meets his father

and calls Doc Brown because it's right on that universal lot. I don't know if you ever been to. I have. But it's pretty cool. It's a great tour. And then Redford had a broken right thumb from a skiing accident

and was supposed to be in a cast but didn't have one and is using a lot of stuff that isn't with his right thumb during the movie. Wow, the downhill racer returns. Yeah.

This is what Robert Shaw said about Newman. They all recognized Newman to be sure. Everyone will come up and kind of swoon over

him, but they didn't in Redford's case, not at all. Do you think it's just fucking with Redford? That's a weird story. Obviously didn't like

Redford. Marv Hamish, three Oscars that year. And he's like, I'm going to dominate the next 30 years. Who could possibly come in and take my

spot? And John Williams was like, here I come. So Marv's Oscar for this movie is a weird one, because it's best scoring adapted. Yeah, which is adapting Scott Joplin's music. Yeah, which is not something that exists anymore, and you don't hear about that. In fact, if you're adapting previously used music,

you are ineligible for the best score Oscars now. He's like, what if it goes, do-da-da-da-da-da-dun-d-d-thin-th. They're like, yeah, Marv, write that out. I did like that tidbit that Ward said, where he thought this should be like a 1930s Chicago Blum, blues movie. Yeah. You know, he wanted.

And that hooker grew up with like black friends, yeah. And that George Roy Hill was like, actually, no, it's ragtime music. That's what we should be playing, even though it takes, you know, that music was popular, 20 years before this movie takes place.

Julia Phillips, first woman to be nominated for and win the Academy Award as a producer for Best Picture. She has a great... And wrote a book. Yeah, and she has a great anecdote about if you don't... Everybody negotiated the font or the thickness of their name and the credit,

except for the producers and it wound up being like very, very thin so it just seems like everybody else is more important than them. And then she tried to snort the font. Redford. God, he'd laugh out of the cow and that one.

Yeah, you like that. Newman and Redford had one issue according to Julia Phillips because Redford was always late. He was at least 40 minutes to an hour late every day on the set, which was apparently a Redford thing for his whole career.

And she said, one day Newman tore him apart for it. Paul was the bigger star. And he said something like, what are you, a movie star? And then Redford started showing up just 20 minutes late instead of 40. And what do you think Redford was doing? Power move. Julia said it was a psychological flaw. Compulsions to not be on time.

Comes with the mantle being a star. I did a film with Steve McQueen, same thing. Yeah. Power move. Yeah. You like it? maybe I'll pick it up going forward Sean shows up at 4 o'clock

for our rewatchful sorry we just finished tapping I'm here now Apex Mountain Newman no no I don't know what it was but it wasn't this cool hand Luke it's somewhere in the 60s

mid-s 60s Redford I think yes Oscar and then this 70s run probably wrapped up 72 73 I think this is like the specific moment where he could do whatever the fuck you want. He's like, I call the shots on what I make. I'll work with who I want.

I'll get the, I'm the first call. Yep. Way we were and this movie, same year. They're both two of the ten biggest movies of the year, and he's nominated for an Academy Award. This would be a good championship belt to figure out is first call. Who had the first call championship belt? Redford is now, after this thing, first call for like, I would say three, four years. Do you think DiCaprio is still first call or as you first call for a certain kind of

No, I think he's held at the belt for 25 years. I think Shalema's first call now. I don't. I don't think so. Timothy Shalmy can, there's no proof that he can open a movie by himself. But Leo's in his 50s now. He's 50. And we're now getting like a real tough test of whether or not he still can.

But Killers of the Flower Moon, which is like four hours long, made over $150 million worldwide. Like, that's crazy. And everybody knew it was going to be on streaming. Yes. So you think Leo is still first call? I do. I think the Heat 2 thing is remarkable because I think it was just like

this movie literally can't happen unless he does it if he's doing it. And it's been true since Titanic that he's had that belt. So that's almost, what is that, 28 years?

That's how Blood Diamond got it. That's how Body of Lies got made. You don't think Brad Pitt ever grabbed it for a split second? Not really. I mean, F1 is Brad Pitt's biggest movie of all time. So Leo's had it since... Brad Pitt makes a lot of weird movies, yeah.

maybe it wouldn't be a good podcast. It's probably more fun of the 70s, 80s. The 70s and 80s, I think, is a lot of fun because you've got Schwarzenegger and Stallone, and you've got those battles. You got Bruce Willis. Cruz is in there for a while. You know, got so many people.

But I think Leo has so thoroughly dominated because he's also been able to play anywhere from 20 to 50 in that time. And he was ascendant right when Cruz became all I do is Mission Impossible and, like, weird. Harrison Ford got it after witness. I think in 84 he had it

and then Costner came on his corner a little bit but yeah Hanks probably has it for a minute Oh no question 93 to 90 He kind of took it from Cruz Denzel I think still does to some extent

Have it or have had it You ever shaking your head Well I don't know if he ever completely had it But he did have the thing where You had a lot of scripts that were written for white guys And then they would Either Denzel got his hands on it Or some agent was like

What if it was Denzel? And then they would have to refashion the entire movie around him, which is a really specific kind of power. But not the same as the way of thing. Yeah, Lonzo originally white. Yeah. It was originally they were flipped rolls.

It was going to be Ethan Hawke. Well, that was Eddie Murphy with Beverly Hills Cop. Yeah. It was written for Stollown. Well, anyway, Redford, I think, grabbed first call. Is it also Apex Mountain for George Roy Hill? I think it is. Because he wins Best Director.

Now he has this and Butch. He can do whatever the fuck he wants after that. He has Waldo Pepper after this? Yeah. Scott Joplin. Yeah, probably. I don't think a lot of people knew ragtime music before this.

Not a ton of people. And Marvelous Marv Hamlish? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Eileen Brennan? I always say Clue. I love her and Clue. She's amazing in The Last Picture Show.

It's weird. I would say Private Benjamin. Great in that too. Is she nominated for that? I think she might have been. I thought she was nominated. She was awesome. She might be right,

which I guess that would probably be it. She really just like walks up down a hallway in the sting. She's incredible, but she doesn't... She just has a great present. She's a good screen star. It's also awesome. Every time she leaves a room, Newman, like, stares at the door for, like, a beat. Yeah. That's his soulmate. Yeah. She has a very 1930s kind of face and look, too. She's a good fit for the madam in 1930. 1930 Chicago movies?

More than untouchables, right? The public enemy probably is. I would say untouchables. Yeah. How about madams with a heart of gold? I don't know, C.R. Pull your list out of your pocket. Who's on there? Madam's of the Heart of Gold, my unmade Christie Canyon mini-series.

So here was an Apex Mountain. Schlitz in the 1930s was apparently by far the biggest beer in the world. I wonder if it had a 70s pop after this, though. Might have. Yeah. I remember there were a lot of Schlitz commercials in the 70s for sports.

It was like the last hurrah, especially for Bruins games. Schlitz is still They still make Schlitz Yeah they do By the time I was in college Schlitz was like we only have 10 bucks Let's get a case of Schl

I feel like Schmitz gay The S&L Who's based on Schl Kind of like torpedoed Schlitz a little bit Probably did Robert Chaud No Con movies

I think yeah Because It's certainly the most successful one It's not the one that I want I would go to first to watch a con movie. But it kind of created the genre. It did. It kind of invent it, yeah.

And then, man, that's it. Cruz or Hanks? Cruz. For which part? For Hooker. See, this is my answer. It's Cruz and Hanks. This would be the perfect Cruz and Hanks movie.

But using two timelines. No. No. Hanks is Gandalf. Hanks is Gandolf. Hanks is Gandolf and Tom Cruise's Frodo. And they have to. return the ring to Mordor.

And Lottigan is... His is... Sauron. That's right. See, Hanks is Newman and Cruz is Johnny Hooker. And what year is this? Like, 1998? Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

Late 90s. Yeah, I think that's answer. Our first tie for Cruz and Hanks. Hanks is older than Cruz in real life? Yeah. Yes. I want to say Hanks is like 68. Is he?

And Cruz is 60, right? Is that right? I thought Cruz was older. I thought Cruz is older than 60. Let's look it up. Cruz is at least 60. Hanks was doing... Tom Cruise is 63.

Hanks is at least 67, 68. Because he was in bosom buddies in 1980. Tom Hanks is 69. Yeah. Wow. So they're actually, I mean, I think Newman and Redford were like 10 or 11 years apart. I think that works.

Scorsese or Spielberg? I have Scorsese for the grit and Spielberg for the like wonder of the movie. Should they have made this movie together? A co-director? Another tie. No, I think this is Scorsesee. Okay.

Yeah. There's something... There's a lot more stabbing. There's something very winning about the tone that George Roy Hill can hit that I feel like only Spielberg knows that. Spielberg, you know, he does movie magic. We're in the movies over. You're like...

Spielberg did catch... No, no, he didn't do catch me if you can. He did. Yeah, he did. He did. I think it would also be Spielberg, I think, would be adept on the universal back lot. You know? Yes, for sure.

He wants to be in Chicago. Yes. If he did, he did it. it would have had the feel of catch me if you can. Which is a great movie? Which role would Philip Seymourhoffin have played clearly Lonnigan with some sort of Irish accent? Yeah, it would have been awesome.

Pickin'its. Some poker missteps, guys. Let's do it. Tell us all about it. There's some splashing the pot out of order. I thought the calls were off. You don't think Lonnigan could be like, I will splash the pot. He basically is doing that.

They're not going in order. I have a related picking net about the game which is if the conductor's is back there for the whole game he's the bank who's taking care of the train I think he's like a concierge guy I think he's the conductor but I think he no he's like ticket taking isn't he isn't that the whole thing is the conductor I thought he was a conductor but he obviously had an

assistant conductor okay yeah well slacking yeah just something's off about the rhythm of it I think think more people are calling, checking. Yeah. You know. That's, but I like the way that Gondorf bullies everybody at the table. Yeah.

It's a good strategy. I have, uh, keep pushing the action. Lonnigan has had dudes killed. I think he notices there are no entry or exit wounds on Hooker. Okay. That's good. I have, does Lonnigan really have no way of checking whether or not there's a New Hampshire horse race?

Like, these are obviously fake horse races, right? No, they're real horse races, right? But like, would he not look in the newspaper the next day to confirm the results of the race? Like, there's so many things. Like, if you go into the cons, you have to assume that Lonnigan is like, okay, I guess I got worked and it accepts it. Right. There were newspapers in 1936. Ray Watson's reading a real wire, isn't he?

Like, they are real races? Or no? I thought they were imagined because they're controlling the action. But he's like, oh, we can't use this one. It's four to one. We can't use this one. It's six to, like... I thought they made up the races.

Because Lonigan is going to do... Tough one for us. Lonigan's going to do the second bet when he's like, I need to do another small bet before I do the big bet. And they're like, we don't have a horse that comes in... Like, if this horse hits,

we're going to get cleaned out. So we have to basically stall him and make it so that he can't place his bet. I think that's because they're taking real results so that the next day Lonagin will see, blue note one, you know, but it's just delayed. But I don't understand how they have

like the whole fake walls, the fake like wiretapping thing with twist. So it is a complicated element of it. But I always thought that they were real races. And then that would be the kiss off. Would be like he's like, shit, I guess I just placed the wrong bet. And then the FBI read it.

Right. Picking it. Eileen Brennan's job. So running a whorehouse day to day. Yeah. But also available for to help her friends with elaborate con artist games. Yeah.

Yeah. I think Madam has... She's basically Travis Hunter. She can play offense and defense. AM PM, yeah. Yeah. I think you have flexible hours. You need a good number two

at the whorehouse. I also feel like the way that life works in that world is that you are up all night long and then like you sleep from like 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. It's like bartending.

Yeah. Yeah. Working as a madam. Or like as a con man. Yeah. So not a lot of like, hey, I'm just out here getting some lunch errands done. Here's my biggest one.

How many extras in the betting parlor? Like 30? Yeah, at least. They're all in on the con job? They said that he needs at least 20 guys. Yeah, so what percentage do they get from the take, the final take of 500 grand? Yeah, let's say splitting, I don't know,

everybody gets 1% of 500 grand. Yeah. And then. It's a good day's work. Then the other guys are split half. Not one of these people are a threat to just be like, I bet I could make more if I go tell Lonigan this is going on. It's a good question.

You're just trusting these 30 people in the con world. Not one of them is going to scam you? I think IMDB did the math where it's, if this takes place in the 1930s, $500,000 would be adjusted for inflation $9.2 million in 2020. It's a lot of money to be walking around with. Yeah, I did the same thing. It was almost $11 million, they said.

which is less than Dorian Finney Smith's going to make on the Rockets this year. Do you see Fred? Yeah, R-R-R-P. Sequel, Prequel, Prestige TV, All-Bocast are untouchable? Maybe prestige, are you interested? I'm interested in them on the run.

I would be interested in... From Lonigan? Like a... So, a sequel. Yeah. Lonigan, also like the temptation of pulling something again. knowing that they have like this skill, you know, this level of skill. I wrote down Prestige TV.

I feel like a Burn Notice style show every week, Gondorf and Hooker running a new scam. Yeah. What about Gandalf? Gandalf and Frodo running scams. Yeah. Those scamps. After you get the ring, what do you do next? Yeah, seriously.

Con guys. Now what? Like an existential drama, sort of like Sopranos, but in the world of short hobbit? Yeah, Middle Earth. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trao, Mad Dog, Rousseau, Dorisberg, Buffalo, Bill, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo,

Tony Romo, Chris Conno, with Daniel, Plain View, long legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm. We haven't done long legs

in a while, guys. He would have loved to con. Good movie. What do you have, C.R? Mad Dog, hanging out in the,

in the wired, the horse race parlor. Be like, Mike, everybody knows blue notes never done much. He's just in a round out the field.

Mike, What's Lattiggen doing betting forth and now gets it? I don't know if that's a good bad dog. But Mike and the dog, whenever they would talk about horse racing, immediately turn the channel. Yeah, immediately turned off. I mean, Mike, there's Blue Note. Hasn't want to race in eight months.

There's Lonergan just betting on him. Something's fishy, Mike. I thought for sure you're going to do Wayne Jenkins on that one. No, I'm saving him. God damn. I feel like the guy who would crush in this environment. is Byron Mayo. You've got scams.

You've got wars. You've got, you know, Derry. Hey, Salino, I know you're an assassin. There's something lingering in those pants. Just one Oscar who gets it. It's the movie. Do you think best picture?

Well, I mean, well, George Roy Hill. I wrote George Roy Hill. He got it. He got it. The movie is tough because of its competition. And that's a good point. So if we're doing just one Oscar, Hamlish? I had Ward.

Marv Ham? Ward. Yeah, because they said that after the couple of drafts, like once they changed the amount that Newman was in it, I think Newman says they didn't change four words shooting it. That's a good call. Also, widely considered one of the great scripts. Like that aspiring screenwriter study and the structure of it, everything.

Yeah, I like that. That's good. Good one. Probably in answerable questions. We did everything, I think. I got one. Okay. What was Doyle's handicap?

Oh, golfing? Well, he's putting in, like, forest in the, like, there is no role to those greens. So I don't know what 1930s golf is like. His handicap was his handball injury from the limbs when he was playing handball and he tumbled over. I think he cheated a lot. Yeah. He did. Yeah, a lot of kicking the ball out of the rough.

Oh, yeah. This isn't an OB. Yeah. Look, I found my ball. I don't know. Had that kind of crazy drunk Irish strength, though? Yeah. I'd probably say like a 15.

Big hitter. Yeah. Big hitter. Probably swore on the course. But, though, you know, it's not getting as much distance. Short game a little off, though, right? Kind of kicking the ball. Yeah.

Explodied out of couple caddies. Yeah. What piece of memorability would you want or not want from this movie? I went with all the poker chips from the poker scene. Yeah. I said Henry's playing cards. Hmm. Yeah, something from the poker, I think, would be the move.

The wallet's interesting. Oh, yeah. The alligator wallet. The counterfeit money in there or the fake money. I like that one. I think I would feel like my life amounted to something if I could ever pull off overall tank top fedora the way that Paul Newman does

when he's going through how they're going to set up Lonigan and he's just rocking fucking overalls. Will I ever see you in a tank top like that? Don't dream big. Real yourself out, CR. Coach Finns.org, best life lesson. Revenge is for suckers? Yeah.

I wrote, you have to keep this con even, keep this con even after you take his money. He can't know you took him. Just like basically never give away the game. I have the Lonigan line where he's talking to Floyd on the putting green. Take a look at that face, Floyd. Because if he ever finds out I can be beat by one lousy grifter, I'll have to kill him and every other hood who wants to muscle it on my Chicago operation.

It's kind of how you pod. That's how I feel. I also wrote down, I don't know enough about killing to kill him. I just thought it was a good line. David S. Ward. Good stuff. Cranking it. What do we have left?

We have... Double feature? Double feature. What do you got? Which on Sundays. Go double con. Do focus? Yeah.

Focus. 11? You could do the Hot Rock too, because it's a kind of like Redford style right around the same time. Kind of similarly breezy and fun, and there's a bank heist that is really cool. Do you want to give people a hint

of what the next Redford and Redford month is Well, we got to do who won the movie first. Okay. Who won the movie? Newman. I think is Redford. Because Redford walks out smelling like gold in this movie. I think it's Redford, too.

Okay. I think there's a George Roy Hill case, though. Mm-hmm. To have this and Butch. Do you wish they made more movies together? Or are you glad that they went two-for-two? Perfect. Newman and Redford?

Yeah, and Hill. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about this, because there's this weird. stretch with both guys post-slap shop for Newman and then Redford for like three years doesn't really do anything and then does electric courseman with Jane Fonda which is one of

the weirdest star movies. He falls into a weird run I guess probably when he starts to get more involved in like his causes and charities or whatever. But then he starts doing like he does, he directs, he does Brewbaker, he does The Natural there's some space from 78 to 84 where I

felt like they could have been detectives or something. See I was going to say a little bit older Because I think if, let's say you just take these movies off the board completely for each of the three of them. Take legal eagles out. We don't need it. Wesley loves that movie. Take Fat Man and Little Boy out from Newman. We don't need it.

We have Oppenheimer now. We don't need that movie. And take out Funny Farm, which is George Roy Hill's last movie. So you've got 1987. Hold on a second. Did you just extinguish Funny Farm? I deleted it. I deleted it from culture.

Horrible take. Funny Farm is great. It is not great. Oh my God. It is not great. Funny Farm's amazing. This is an age gap thing. No, Van Lathan loves that movie, too.

He's been pushing for it. I can't remember the last one I saw Funny Farm. Chubby Farms. You would rather have Funny Farm over a reunion of Redford and Newman? Why can't I have Funny Farm and the reunion? Why do I have to pick? Because George Roy Hill makes World According to Garp, which I know you love.

But somewhere in 85, 86, they could have all done a movie. Yeah, they could. I'm with you on Legal Eagles. I would get rid of that. they could have done something around color of money everybody's minted color of money

like 87 yeah how about this could Newman have been Max Mersey in the natural well the thing is is that the reason why they're so interesting

though is that Newman doesn't ever want to give an inch you know what I mean he doesn't want to be the old guy turning it over to Redford I just don't think he would play

like that part in the natural yeah I don't know. It's a weird time for Redford. His 80s are kind of funky. Can we put both guys in Top Gun? Sure. One of them is the Tom Scarrant part.

And then we just create another one for the other guy. Paul Newman would be an awesome. There's both in there. Paul Newman would have been amazing. Yeah, it just never happened. Fy overqualified for Viper. Yeah.

I think it's something where they're aging detectives in the 80s and it's, there's, with the point of life, both of them were, there probably would have been some sort of, of like moral.

Let's just put them in Black Rain. I'm in. Or I could have seen Redford showing up in something like nobody's fool. Oh, for sure. Yeah, and he made some of his own versions of movies like that. Yeah.

But I think Newman had an ultimately more interesting final 10 years, but there are a couple of late period Redford's always like. You'd like all's lost though. All is lost is great. Old Man in the Gun is great. But like...

Well, Old Man and the Gun was supposed to be Newman and he was too old at that point. But Redford is perfect for it. I mean, he's perfect in that movie. Were you tweeting about a company you keep, company you keep like the other day? And then Bill was like, what are you doing? Yeah, right before he died. I was like.

It was like right as the football started. I was just on YouTube, just doing my thing. Just looking at stuff. All right. To end the pod, producer Craig Horwellbeck usually lets us know what he thought of the movie. He's not here today because a big road trip for the fantasy football show. But he sat in on the whole pod. And now we're going to get your thoughts.

What were your thoughts? So I have seen this thing. I saw it 10 years ago in college. And so you guys saying that you should see it every 10 years, I think really rang true because I didn't, I forgot about the FBI thing being fake or being a part of the con. And I forgot about Salino in the diner. I thought that was just a relationship that Hooker was having. So it completely worked on me. But I loved it 10 years ago.

I loved it even more now. But for me, the best movies, the movies that I like the most are the ones that succeed commercially. critically, they kind of like hit that perfect middle. And I think this is the best example of that. I love that the whole thing's filmed on a set. Like you can tell the whole time, but to me it just proves that if, if you have like talented people and a good script, like you can make anything work. This whole movie is just like five people running around a set and a back lot.

And it looks like a painting. It looks like an Edward Hopper painting. It's unbelievable. It's pretty impressive to be how cinematic this movie feels, considering most of it is just in tiny little room. and fake sets that you can clearly feel our sense. Yeah, take that, Pauline Kill. The president of cinema is way in.

It was too claustrophobic for Craig. No, this movie's amazing. Also, the dialogue, you guys touched on in a little bit, but I realized watching this movie, there are like, I don't know, 20 to 30 phrases that I just don't know what they're saying without context, close. I don't know if it's like every 100 years jargon resets.

But I wrote down a couple lines here of things that people say, I'm going to read them. Okay. Dookie, we're setting up a wire store in the north side. I'm going to need a 20-man boost right away. These men have got to be quill and everything will be Jake. I love that. I just know when he's going to run his chum, make his sting, get the pinch. I hear the mark as some big New York wheel. Like, that could be Gen Z slang. I have no idea what that shit means. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was the skittity toilet. I heard Dave Dillon-Lonagan Slays. What is, what do we think

wheel is? Like, as somebody with money? I guess. Like a whale. Yeah, like a whale. Like a high roller. But like, I didn't, I've never heard quill. These men have to be quill and everything is going to be Jake. Yeah, they have to be perfect. There's also like plenty of lines that you are, you can decipher them. But the way that they are delivered is so good.

Like when the guy who sets up the wire store for them and they're like, you want a flat rate or percentage and he's like, who's the mark? And they're like, Doyle on it. He's like, flat rate. Yeah. Love that part. I, uh, I miss the nicknames too. I don't, I just don't think we're good at nicknames in the same way anymore.

No. Like if Justin Fields was jumping Justin Fields or something, you'd just have more confidence in them. Yeah. Yeah, flopping Justin Fields. George and Nick Trainfields. George Justin at Ohio State. Yeah.

Who was the guy giving out suits when he was recruiting them to be a part of the con team? Was it twist? Twist. Twist. Yeah. I love that if you made it, you got a suit. That was cool. Kid Twist.

Go pick yourself out of suit. Like you called Danny Kelly D.K., even that was an exciting name. But think if you had named him Twist. Well, you got to be careful because remember, their show used to be called the Dan to see football podcast. Yeah, true. One of the worst decisions we've ever had at the ringer to the day to see football podcast.

I got to be honest, I think I was involved in the decision. I regret that. I may. I think I might have came up with that. Well, you're the author of the show in some way, so it's okay. It was a double terrible idea because it was a terrible name, but it also then you couldn't search for fantasy as you searched for pods.

It really heard of not strong as you. It would auto correct you away from fantasy every time you typed it in. Listen, even the greats can't bat a thousand. Even Gondorf missed, you know. And Gandalf. And Gandalf.

What is the Redford movie you're hoping we do the most on Redford month, Greg? Condor. Yeah, me too. Yeah, Condor's sick. Yeah. Because it would have been all the presidentsmen, but we've already done that. The only problem with Condor. Because the Fay done away is throwing 140.

And that she gets kidnapped and slop around. The only problem is we do need it for 70s conspiracy movie month. Right. And we just, other guys would have to step up. It's time to step up, Warren Beatty. Like, like, Trayvion Henderson after Ramandre's two fumbles. That's the thing. After we wave Remandre, it's like,

Trayvon's got to step up now. So if we lose Condor, we really are like, is Black Sunday ready? Like, it's one of those. Great question, but we could return to Robert Shaw with Black Sunday. That's true. That's true.

One of his final performances. So if we waste the Condor chip. It's amazing. You have to decide. Is it red, or conspiracy. What matters more to you? Or could you have both and they both matter equally. But they could layer

onto each other. The last Redford could be the first conspiracy. It's like how Spotify songs now blend into one another. Oh, interesting. It goes right into conspiracy month? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I like that idea. It's a nice way to spend a chilly November with a paranoid thriller.

Good idea. Craig, safe travels. Thanks to Gahow as well. Thanks to Ronick. You can watch all of these on our Ringer movies channel and Redford month four left maybe it'll bleed into 70s conspiracy month really interesting idea thanks here thanks Sean thanks Bill