The Rewatchables - ‘The Untouchables’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: June 23, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan are nothing but a lot of talk and a badge after revisiting Brian De Palma’s 1987 crime drama ‘The Untouchables’ starring Kevin Costner, Sean Connery, and Robert De Niro. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From the host that brought you to Coding Westworld. And Westworld, the recapables. Comes the Ringer Prestige TV podcast on Westworld. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Danny Hyfitz. And I'm David Shoemaker. Welcome to Westworld Season 4 in the Prestige TV podcast feed, where we're going to break down every episode of Westworld season four.

Every Monday, the day after the show comes out on the Prestige TV podcast feed. Wherever we get your podcast, but get them on Spotify. This episode is brought to you. buy Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Built for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast, because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly.

I sold my car on Carvana last night. Well, that's cool. No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer, down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong. So what's the problem?

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch. Maybe there's no catch. That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow, you need to relax. I need a knock on wood. Do we have wood?

Is this table wood? I think it's lamated. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on. Pick up fees may apply. The rewatchable is brought to by the ringer.

podcast network where you can find the watch with Chris Ryan. You're still cracking that out? Every week, twice a week. You did the old man this week with Andy and then we did it on the prestige. We're competing against each other. We share this passion. No, it's not competition when it's art. No, we're elevating each other in the show. Spreading the Church of Bridges' word. It is an unbelievable show. Anybody who likes the rewatchables

and likes the movies we talk about, there's no fucking way you won't like the old man. So go check that out. Coming up on this podcast, 1930, Prohibition has transformed Chicago into a city at war. It is the time of the gangwords is the time of Al Capone. The Untouchables is next. All right, Chris, I don't know where to start with this. I guess we could start here. It's 35 years since this movie came out.

We could go to Palma, we could go Costner, we could go Connery, we could go this Weird point De Niro was at. I do think, though, there's a prototype with this movie that resembles football to me where just a lot of elements have to come into place. But the best thing is, like when the Chiefs had Mahomes on a rookie contract, it's like, wow, this is great. This is the biggest advantage you can have. The Untouchables has Costa on a rookie contract.

He is going to be the biggest star of the world two years later. But we don't know that in 1987 and when they're filming this in 86. So you have him on a rookie deal. and then you can spray the money around. You can get to Palma. You can get DeNiro for 18 days. You can get Connery. You can get David Mamet to write the script.

But the key is Costa on the rookie deal. And you still got your scouting department out there finding Andy Garcia's in the fifth round. Watching 8 million ways to die tape and being like, I love this guy. This is just the prototypical. This is how you do a movie. They were worried at the time that it was over budget.

there's actually in the first ever issue of Premiere Magazine, they have an untouchable shot by shot thing and a Costner thing. And a lot of what they talk about, which we'll get into later, is the movie was actually, like they were worried it was too expensive. It was over $20 million. Now you look back as like,

wow, what a bargain. This is like a $100 million movie they made for $20 million. Not only what a bargain, but also, I mean, it goes across the board beyond even the big names that we just mentioned, where when you watch a movie like this, you're seeing like every single part of what goes in,

to making a movie at its absolute best. Yeah. Like, the cinematography is great. The outfits are amazing. The production design is amazing. I know that stuff isn't like that, like fun to talk about, but it is kind of like,

this is when Hollywood was really Hollywooding. Like, they really made. And when you watch it still to this day, there's some slower parts of it. But God damn, this is a really, really,

really entertaining movie that just delivers, like, every single time. I love just being like, Where are we? Did we get to Canada yet? I'm in. Well, you think 1987, Capone still matters from a storytelling standpoint in a way that I don't think he matters now. You know, you're going back 57 years at that point. It's equivalent now.

It's 2002 if we went back to, or in 1967. Yeah. And that doesn't seem that long ago. There were guys on the set who had worked on the Capone case. Like, there were still dudes around who had been like, yeah, remember this. Right. So you have that piece. You also have this. was a really important TV show. No, that doesn't matter now in 2022, but in the 1960s, it was a show that people knew. So they had a little bit of, you know, a little bit of a drift from that. But then they go and get to Palma, who's on a great run. And then you get the De Niro piece at a time when people weren't 100% thinking that way of like, we're going to get this

awesome actor, but he's not going to be in the movie this much. I would, I might even think this was the first time somebody thought this way and executed it for a big budget. I was trying to think, did anybody do that before? Like, terms of endearment, Jack Nicholson, maybe? Yeah, I was going to say, Nicholson in terms of endearment was like an example of, like, I mean, to some extent, they did it a little bit with Brando. I mean, Brando's in Godfather a lot. Right. But it was kind of like, we're going to get this guy.

I guess Brando was a little bit of a distressed asset at the time. He was. It was kind of like, what if we populate this movie with these young up-and-coming actors and then have these heavyweight champion in his twilight kind of in the. I wouldn't say that De Niro was anywhere in his twilight in 1987, but it's a pretty genius idea to take Costner and basically have this guy who's embodying Gary Cooper and Jimmy Stewart at the same time. Yeah. And then have him buttressed by these two huge, huge personalities in Conry and De Niro.

Like, you don't usually see a movie star willing to get, like, worked off the screen like that. Yeah, but at the time, he hadn't had a big hit yet. so he was you know this was a huge break for him but i kind of wonder i wonder because when he gets casting what ifs i wonder whether that scared off some of the people who were up for alien nest were like it's not really his movie yeah for de nero so he had raging bowl in 81 wins the oscar or 80 wins the Oscar everyone's like that's the guy and then like his next seven films aren't awesome he does true Confessions. King of Comedy, which I think the movie neards loved, the movie didn't do that well.

Once Upon a Time in America, which is way too long, but it's a pretty interesting movie. And I know your guy, Jimmy Woods. Directors cut movie, yeah. Yeah. Falling in Love did not work. Him and Meryl Street. Brazil. Some people love it.

The Mission. Angel Heart, which I know you and I love, but it's kind of amazing. He's even in that movie. It's like he owed somebody a favor. So this is the cocaine 80s. right and who knows what kind of issues the near have but just in general the parts and the choices and the movies they're all over the place and movies are changing too movies are changing coming out of the 70s and he's he's the man in the late 70s in the early 80s with Scorsese and copla and doing

everything and he's arguably you know the biggest best actor in the world and then like you know we start to get more of a blockbuster culture and i think he starts doing a little bit more mainstream stuff angel hard aside i think it was starting to slip a little bit for him. Because we're talking, you know, six years here of, like, De Niro's the best actor. By 87, it's like, is he? Like, what's he done lately? That starts to drift into Hollywood, right?

You start getting passed by bigger people. At that point, Harrison Ford is really taken off. And there's some other A-plus listers. Pacino is having the same. Pacino's done a lot of stage stuff. Yeah, this is like... In the wilderness years, right? Yeah, Nicholson feels like he has the championship belt at that point.

Clint is still massive. Um, Bert Reynolds has faded at that point. The action stars have taken over with Slice D'Lone and Arnold. That's become a whole thing. And then Michael Douglas, in that generation, is starting to come up. And Michael Douglas had a huge 86. So I think De Niro needed this movie. And this jump starts him.

Now he's got Midnight Runs coming. Um, Cape Fear. And it's just like that second phase of the De Niro thing. It's kind of crazy that he's not in this movie that much. I always forget that when I watch it. But it, they do such a great job. He's the shark from Jaws. He's just lurking out there, and it's just like you are never not terrified of him.

You never don't believe that Capone could do anything. But they don't have to overuse him. I kind of think that, like, what's he, in four scenes, five scenes in this movie? It seems like five scenes, yeah. It's the perfect amount. Then you have Connery, who's in the middle of the Connery ascent's, which starts with the Bond movie in 83. He's in Highlander. He's in Name of the Rose, which I think is a really good movie.

The Untouchables, the Presidio, which I know you like. I like the Presidio. Indiana Jones 3. And as that's going through, Connery just has this whole resurgence. He wins the Oscar for this. We'll litigate that later in the podcast. But to catch him, this was James Bond forever. And then it kind of dies in the 70s from a little bit.

And then the Renaissance happens. This has become, I think, one of the foremost important Connery movies. I'm not sure that should be the case. but he's super likable in it. The accent, I don't want to talk about it now. We'll save it for later. The accent is just so bad that it's hard to rewatch this movie and not be like, wow, what were they thinking? Why didn't they just make him Scottish?

It is. So it's like obviously he has to be Irish because of the Irish population of Chicago. I get it. I get it. I don't know if there was a lot of Scottish cops. Maybe there were. But, I mean, it's so funny that the second half of his career probably the two definitive roles are this and Red October.

And in both of those, it's just like a Scottish guy pretending to be Lithuanian and a Scottish guy pretending to be Irish. Two of the worst accent movies. At least in Red October, they're like, they do a trick so that none of the accents are supposed to matter. But like Sam Neal is still speaking with like a Russian accent. And Conry just sounds like he's teeing off at the old course. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, the charisma is there.

And, you know, he gets his famous death scene. He's awesome. Yeah. So you kind of, you learn to overlook the accent as the movie goes. You know, it's like the ugly jump shot. Everything else is there. He's great except for the accent. Another thing that he does in this, and it's super impressive,

watching this over and over again, he's really good at Mamet. Yeah. So Mamet's the secret spice in this movie. Let's talk about him. Okay, so he is an up-and-coming and Pulitzer Prize winning playwright at the time. He's written Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross. he's about to make his own first movie House of

House of Games. But he comes in, they were going to have Wendy Wasserstein write this script and then they have Mamet do it. And I think he's like, I mean, it's one of those things where it's like, everybody in this movie, I think, it wasn't like, oh, this is a paycheck job.

They were like, let's make the most entertaining movie we possibly can. And there's just enough mammatisms in this so that your ears perk up. But it never like gets in the way of the movie and becomes so obtuse that you don't understand what's going on. I think there's a lot of lessons that came from this movie that were then applied to the next 35 years of movies.

Like we mentioned the rookie QB thing. Like, I think the mentality really, until right around the time of this movie, was that you needed to put a giant star on the poster. But this movie showed you could build around the star. Batman eventually does it, even though Keaton was a star, it wasn't really, he wasn't a massive star. He wasn't as big of Nickleston was the star.

Batman was the star. and then they've, Keaton, it didn't really matter who it was. And I think Superman, you could say, did that in 1978 with Christopher Reeve, where they built, they did kind of the same blueprint of they built around him. But for the most part, I think this movie, with how important the screenwriter was, with how important the director was, it got, it got Hollywood back to its roots a little bit. And I do think this is right when the whole movie culture is starting, when people, you know, like, although I wasn't really there yet.

until kind of after college, or last tail into college. But people really started to think about how these movies were made. Yeah. And where the meat was bought, who was cooking it, just things. I just don't feel like they cared about that stuff in the 70s. It was like, oh, Jaws. I don't think even most people knew who directed it.

But if it was starting to shift around the time of this movie. Yeah, I think that movies are starting to take over probably a large, like a different role in culture and, like the making of movies with the media around it is starting to explode a little bit more. And yet you still have like a little bit of chance taking. I mean, it's a chance to take to put De Palma in charge of this movie. Yeah, we should talk about him. David Mamet, though, he's one of those guys.

He's as famous as a playwright as a screenwriter. It's kind of a rare territory where somebody did both of those. Usually it's one or the other, right? But he was always the name you heard as like the just incredibly well-respected kind of constructionist of scripts and plays. And sometimes that just doesn't work in movies. It's rare. So there's been, it's Mamet, Sorkin, Tony Gilroy. I'm sure, like Quentin Tarantino, obviously, but, you know, dialogue writers.

Well, so Goldman, I wouldn't say is known for his dialogue. Oh, yeah, you're right. I mean, I think Goldman's more of like a, like he's really good. constructing story. Yeah. And I mean, I think he's a great dialogue writer, but he doesn't have a distinctive signature the way Mamet has the repetitions of words. Yeah, good point.

And, you know, Sorkin obviously has the barrage of overlapping dialogue. So it's kind of amazing to see Mamet take his inimitable style and format Matt it into this, like, very, very Hollywood movie. So he's got, for the people listening, he did, he got a, he did Postman always brings twice. That was his first one which I think as a movie people decided it didn't work but now I think it's a little more interesting because of the actors

Jack Nicholson and Jessica Lang. He wrote the verdict, got an academy word for that. I think that was the one people were like, holy shit, what the fuck is this? Who's this guy? Yeah. He does the untouchables. He has Hoffa. He's The Edge. A movie

that will be on the rewatchables at some point. Wag the Dog. Ronan, we've already done. Did Hannibal. and then he started directing too. But he had a really good run and screenplays there that I think really were distinct. He's, to me, a cover the byline guy where you could cover the byline

and be like, oh, I know who this is. Also, if you turn on heist, as soon as Gene Hackman and Delroy Lino start talking, you're like, this is David Mamet movie. Yeah. You know. So you have that piece. Makes sense. The De Palma piece was a little

little more interesting. This is so awesome. It's just so cool. Have we done a De Palma movie? because... I think we did the first mission impossible but I don't know

if you were on that. He has Kerry and Dress to Kill and Blowout and Scarface and Body Double which to me are all like just absolute rewatchables.

I've seen all of those movies. I love Blowout. I can't believe we haven't done on the rewatchables yet. Scarface, obviously, we'll be doing that at some point. Dressed to Kill

was a phenomenon in the summer in 1980. Body double. Yeah. I absolutely love body double. Me too. I love it. I think.

think that movie is so good. But by that time he's taking shit like, oh, you're just ripping off Hitchcock. Fuck you. Right. And especially with body double, that was when it was like, no, fuck you, dude. You're too close. This became a Stone Temple Pilots' Pearl Jam type of situation where now you look back and you're like, man, Stone Temple Pilots.

Yeah, every once in a while, they fucking rip off Interstate Love Song and you're like, damn. Yeah, man, this group was banging. And this, I mean, I would not say that De Palma is the Stone Temple Pilots of Hitchcock, but I do think that Untouchables is his, is his interstate love song. But I think he's just very, he's like, for somebody who is so distinctive and so, like, such a stylist, it's amazing to watch him apply that to things like this, to Scarface to Carlito's way to like these big sweeping, you know, crime dramas.

Well, he gets the signature eight minutes scene in the train station that feels the most appalmy. But I think what's interesting about his movies, and you even go back to Carrie, there's a real sexuality to them. What a perv. He's super pervy. You know, dress to kill, Angie Dickinson. She's going to town on herself in the shower, you know, after her.

And then the first 25 minutes of that movie is kind of incredible. Like that whole, in the art museum, when she feels like she's being followed by this guy, but the guy really just wants to fuck her. And it becomes like this cat and mouse game in the art. gallery and he was just, he was doing stuff that I don't really feel like I've seen in movies. Body double, same thing. When all of a sudden it becomes a frank, it goes to Hollywood video and you're like,

what's happening in this movie? I know. Yeah. I mean, he's able to also just ring style and like pure cinema out of scenes, right? Yeah. So like obviously the Odessa's steps, Potemkin homage and Untouchables, we'll talk about at length. But, you know, I mean, just like these wandering crane shots, steady cam. shots, voyeuristic shots.

And it'll be like in a random scene, like in Carlito's way, it's like Pacino watching Penelope and Miller from across the, from the roof across from her apartment building. And it just adds like a level of psychology to his movies that probably ordinarily wouldn't be there if any other director did him. Yeah, it's weird to say a director is better

at just being a visual director than other people. But he is one of the best of it in my lifetime. Like body double is basically, it's a movie about people watching other people, right? And the way they use that house, which by the way, if you drive on sunset, if anyone who lives in LA, the body double house is still on that street. I always almost get in a car accident every time I'm driving by it. It's just like an amazing piece of real estate.

And in the actual movie, they took more liberties with it. But just he does these things where you can just see them in your head after the fact, which I think is really hard to do. But, you know, Hitchcock had such a shadow at that point. Anybody who dabbled in the Hitchcock world, people just made them mad. And you go back and you read some of the reviews of his work and it was the recurring theme. It was like, fuck you. I think my thing about this is when you watch Intouchables, it's almost like looking at the ingredients label of like a great recipe, like a great piece of food, like a dish.

because you realize all the layering of things that is happening to make you have an emotional reaction. Like it's, the camera is going up and the Ennio Morricone music is coming in

and everybody is wearing Armani suits and Sean Conry is leading these guys across the street on a liquor rate and you're like, why is my heart rate going up?

And it's like, because they know what they're doing. They know how to cut. They know how to move the camera. They know how to light it. They know how to act it. It's really, really professional. What's your favorite

the Palma movie? Is it Carlito's way? It is, isn't it? It's up there. I feel weird not picking one of the psychosexual early 80s movies, like not picking dress to kill or body double, but I think it might be Carlitos. The one I've seen the most, I think, is Scarface.

I don't even think that's close. The one I admire the most, I think, is Blowout. I think blowout's amazing. I actually think that movie has become more and more amazing. We should absolutely do it. at some point on this pod with Sean. Great movie would be an even better prestige, prestige TV show now. It's probably my favorite Travolta performance other than Saturday Night Fever.

I think it's his second best. This and Pulper art for me. Might be one of the great Philly movies. Oh, yeah. It really uses Philly strategically. Anyway, to Palma and me, I don't know where people have him ranked, but to me he's like Hall of Famer. I love his library.

and I really respect him. And this is probably, I would say the most successful movie he did other than Mission Impossible, right? Mission Impossible's got to be one. But, you know, with this and Mission Impossible, he proved, no, no, I don't have to just be like the purve. Or even Scarface, I guess that's not a, it's a little pervy.

The stuff with Tony and his sister gets a little, I don't know what they're going for there in a couple of the scenes. But what's about Tony? You want to fuck me? asking me where I am on Scarface is like asking me where I am on like cheeseburgers or pizza I fucking love Scarface I was just watching the other day the chainsaw scene I think is still like all time manny's just he's flirting with girls he's down to it's all of it and it's shot the way they use South Beach that movie's amazing yeah you now I want to go watch like five

DePaulman movies right out of my god body double for the people listening I would I would honestly just go in order. I would go carry, dress to kill, blow out, Scarface, Body Double, and Untouchables. You could do a lot worse. Yeah, you could just go and watch the evolution of him. Body Double has the insane Melanie Griffith performance, which it was like just catapultures. She became a super-duper stark because of that movie. So you have that, then you have the Costner piece of this where he can never been a hit movie. And he was one of those guys who was like, when's it going to happen for him? And he gets cut out of the big show most famously. He's in Fandango and he's in Silverado

and he's in American Flyers, a movie that I absolutely love that I think is one of the great underrated sports movies. Love that movie. But it's just not happening. And then 87 becomes the Eir of Kostner. He's this and no way out. And he's an A-plus lister after that. So they hire him off of getting to see Silverado

before it comes out. Yeah. Lawrence Kastin. And one of my favorite parts about Untouchables that I want to talk about is that they kind of conceived of this movie as a Western. Yeah. It's basically like the two lawmen in a corrupt. uptown trying to hold off the big bad. And so they saw this quality in Costner in Silverado and they were like, he can be Ness, like the cowboy version of Ness that we want. I would say young

Costa brought probably every single thing to the table that you're looking for if you're trying to lead a movie with somebody. Yeah. Like he's in the running for most handsome. He's most charismatic. He doesn't have the sense of humor in this movie, but it comes out later. You believe him in the action scenes. I don't feel like he's going to get his ass kick, but I ask. feel like he's not invincible, like somebody like, I don't know, if John Sina was in this movie, you'd be like, ah, is John Sina really in danger? Just everything about it, the way he relates to people, it's all here. And it's kind of hard for me to believe that he wasn't the one nominated for this movie instead of Connery.

I think he's quite good in this. It's also like the origin of a lot of Kossner moves. Like there are a couple, like, voice breaking, you know, know, like his exasperation, his like, the way he kind of reacts to very emotional moments. He does a lot over the years and field of dreams. The playbook. Yeah, it's kind of the playbook. You know, the only time I can kind of remember this happening again after Untouchables, I'm sure there are other examples, but it really does remind me of what happened with McConaughey, where he did dazed. It's a bit part,

but it kind of goes viral for what viral was at the time. And then he does Lone Star. And off of like kind of those things, he gets a time to kill, which is, here, here's a John Grisham movie. You're going to be in the biggest movie of the summer. You know, it doesn't happen that much very often. I thought it was going to happen to Tyler Parker after we did take hunter, but it just, maybe it'll still have it. He's still mulling a lot of offers. He's thinking about doing body double two.

Slow bird. But yeah, Costa, you think like there's this new generation elite actor starting right around now, right, Bruce Willis is coming. Costner. Cruz is now an adult, and now he's in the mix for all these different things. Denzel is coming.

So you just have this whole new generation. Yeah, Denzel's nominated this year, right? For Cry of Freedom? Right. So everything's about to change. We don't really fully see that yet. But, you know, in the Premier Magazine, the first one, they have the two-page

Costner feature, big handsome picture of them. And it's all about like, this guy's been waiting for this moment. could this be the year of Koster? And it's hilarious to reread when you reread these old magazine things. And it's like, could this be the year for him? And it's like, yeah.

It actually turned up pretty well for this guy. Yeah. He's about to go on one of the great decade runs of A-List movie thing we have. It's kind of cool when you get to see people in roles like this. And I think about this with Garcia a lot in this movie because it's a nothing part. Yeah. But you're like, this guy's got a lot of heat. Yeah.

fastball. And that leads to Godfather 3 and Internal Affairs for him. He said, oh, internal affairs. Oh, boy. They were doing that this summer. Roger Ebert wasn't as enchanted. He gave it two and a half stars.

He said Chicago's bootlegging battles were already alleged by the 1930s when Warner Brothers turned them into the gangster movie industry. Directors have been struggling ever since to invest them with life and free them from clichés. And then he says,

best film about the era remains the uncut original version of Sergei Leone's Once Upon a Time in America. Well, I'm not positive. I agree because this movie's held up way better, I think, than Once Upon a Time in America. It also feels different from a lot of gangster movies. Ironically, the name of this podcast is The Rewatchables. This movie became a fucking banger of a rewatchable. Yes. This was, within a year of it comes out, it's on HBO and all those channels. and it's just like, oh, they're going to go to Canada, all right? Oh, the baby carriage scene is coming up. I'll stay.

Yeah. You're in the other room all of a sudden you hear, da, da, da, da. And you're like, what? Are they in Canada? Yeah, it's like, Kostern's going to have a scene with his wife. I'm in. Another scene where she's worried about him?

Great. Are you guys going to listen to the radio for a little while? Hey, could you look long at your newborn child? This movie is nominated for four Academy Awards. Art Direction, Score, Costum Design, Best Supporting Actor. Connery won. He beat Albert Brooks in broadcast news. Morgan Freeman and Street Smart.

Vincent Gardini and Moonstruck and Denzel Washington and Craft Freedom as Steve Biko. The Albert Brooks thing is tough. It's tough. I hear you, but I'm also not mad at this winning. I think he's really good in this movie. The accent aside, if you can get over the accent.

I can't. If I'm going to give you an actual Academy Award, I can't. I can't. I think Albert Brooks, we did the broadcast news one a while ago, and I just think he's so fucking good in that movie that if I had to redo this, I would give it to Albert Brooks.

Is that because you don't think he sounds like a stuck Irish pig? 25 million dollar budget. from 20, made $106 million. They did okay. Ebert said, De Palma's Untouchable is like the TV series that inspired it depends more on clichés than on artistic invention. Two and F stars.

Relax, Raj. Come on, Raj. Raj wasn't seen the forest through the trees on this one. Great script, really inventive filmmaking, and some good actors, like, settle down, Raj. It should have been three stars. I'm upset. I don't know how you, I don't know, there's like four sequences in here where I'm like, I don't know how you watch these and say it's a two and a half star movie. Agree.

Paul and Keel, I think I'm going to start weaving into the rewatchables a little bit, who I think did some of the best, obviously some of the best movie writing ever, but some of the best essay writing ever from that era. Yeah. But also like her taste was all over the place and she would love certain things. Other thing. Her take on this was not a great movie. It's too banal, too morally comfortable.

the great gangster pictures don't make good and evil mutually exclusive the way they are here but it's a great audience movie a wonderful pot boiler I think that's a good way to put it, a great audience movie

I agree. And I also think that she's onto something with the morality of the movie which we can talk about but there's essentially like the idea is that like to beat Capone

you've got to be Capone and that's what Jimmy is telling Ness and Ness is like well I don't want to break the law and then he obviously does throughout the movie and he doesn't seem that broken up about it. And that, I think, is what she's looking for is a grappling with

the, like, are these people really that much different if this is what they have to do to beat one another? And instead, it's just kind of like, you know what, fuck it. I toss this guy off a roof. And he deserved it. Yeah. We'll do the categories. We take a break. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices

on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. save at Whole Foods Market. Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Here's a little tune to help you remember. Same drive, different day. Don't you wish you were getting away? Pack your bags and come on through. Texas, Ohio, Alaska, we're up there too.

Comfort in, it's calling your name. Save on the stay. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Well, I hope you like my little song. at sourceville tales.com. Most rewatchable scene. It's short, but the opening scene without Capone. What does he think he is doing?

What I hope I'm doing, and here's where your English paper's got a point is, I'm responding to the will of the people. People are going to drink. You know that, I know that. We all know that, and all I do is act on that. And all this talk of bootlegging. What is bootlegging? On the boat, it's bootlegging.

On Lakeshore Drive, it's hospitality. I'm a businessman. What an intro. The overhead shot, the shaving and the barber shop, just, uh... He gets nicked. Yeah.

Fatter De Niro, he gets nicked. You don't know what's going to happen. All of it's great. Elliot sees Malone and the police station smiles and they go to church when he knows Malone's in. And just some great Conner here. You want to get Capone?

Here's how you get him. He pulls a knife. You pull a gun. You sends one of yours to the hospital. You send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago. They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital.

He sends one of his to the morgue. And that's that. You want to do some connery? You're going to wait until later. I just like, his mammating here is so elite, where he's like, now what do you want to do? Are you ready to do that? I'm offering you a deal.

Do you want this deal? Do you want this deal? If you're afraid of getting a rotten apple, don't go to the barrel. Get it off a tree. Do you want to do Bono as Sean Connering? You might say that for later? Excuse me, Mr. President.

Are you afraid of getting a rat, apple? Hey, the best line in this church scene, too, is, do you know what a blood oath is? Well, you just took one. Yeah, that's what I told you when you got in the ringer. I love Andy Garcia getting hired.

just the slurs getting thrown back and forth. I'm half Italian, I'm a quarter Irish. I feel like I could enjoy that the most probably out of anybody. That's all you need. One thieving wop on the team. Hey, what did you say? Plus, I like that they did Garcia as an Italian. You'll see the Italians playing the Latinos,

but rarely the Latinos going backwards and playing the Italians. I appreciate it. Yeah, this is the reverse payback for Pacino getting to play a Puerto Rican gangster. Right. And then he does it again. Garcia is then in Scarface. He just becomes somehow he's just getting Italian rolls for some reason. I love the little back pat he gives Connery. He's like, what did you say? He like taps him on the back. He's like, what did you just say? It's great. Garcia was on a great run here of just hot head parts. Yeah. This, Godfather, Internal Affairs, Black Rain, where it's like he's the only person who can, uh, Screw things up for this guy is the guy himself.

His temper. It's too red-blooded, very sunny Corleone. You Stinkin' Irish shit pig is just great. Just great. I said that you're a lion member of a no-good race. The 1930s are really something. It's short, but the Capone baseball bat scene, I think, became the most, the second most famous scene from this movie. Looks, throws, catches, hustle.

part of one big team. Bats himself to live long day, Babe Ruth, Ty Cob, and so on. If his team don't field, what is he? You follow me? No one. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb and so on.

If his team don't field, what is he? I get nowhere unless the team wins. Did you want more? Did you want to see more of the baseball bat beating? I guess we couldn't unless this was rated R. I think it's like their reaction is, you get the one real melon pop. And then everybody else's reaction. So I think it's, I'm fine with it.

When we get to Canada, I mean, we could do the whole. I think that Canada stuff's a little clumsy, but I still like it. But I love when Malone does the fake murder to get the witness to talk when he picks up the dead guy. And he shoots him. It's so good. I don't know if I've seen that in another movie. I think they invented this, or if they did, it would be after. Do you not like them rushing the bridge? I do. I think it's a little clumsy.

I guess so. I mean, I just think that that's like, he just gets to make the Western right there. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. And when Jimmy's like, oh, hell, you got to die of something. There's good lines. There's some drama. But I don't know. I feel like, I bet if De Palma watches this movie now, there's some stuff. might be he just feels very I have a nitpick for it you know what I mean I know what you mean yeah

the elevator death of Charles Martin Smith and touchable on the elevator written in blood all in one shot it's really good really good where do you stand on the Connery assassination scene

isn't that just like a weapon brings a knife to a gunfight get out of here you dagle bastard Go on, get your ass out of here. It's a little long. But it's really, I mean, I have a lot of questions about his ability to keep all the blood inside of his body just until those guys arrive. But it's pretty powerful. I remember the first time I saw it being absolutely like my jaw was on the floor.

Yeah, what's age the worst for this movie is just being completely shocked that they killed off Connery? You think that's age of the worst? Well, just in 1987 being shocked. Now, you know it's coming. You know what I mean? Get out of here, you dego bastard. Dago. That word, it left about 25 years ago, but that word was around in the 70s and 80s in a real way.

The baby gunfight scene. The train station, yeah. Masterpiece. I mean, and he literally lifts it from Sir Gagan, Eisenstein from Battleship of Tempton, then the Odessa step sequence. So my favorite thing about this is that they had basically run out of money. Yeah.

And De Palma said, you know, paraphrase or apocryphal or whatever, he said, get me a baby carriage, a clock and some steps. So the Premiere magazine, which is not online, but I have, and they have the whole shot-by-shot thing

about this scene, and they explained how it played out this way. They ran out of money. It was the original idea, it was this big train scene with Capone's henchman, the bookkeeper, trying to leave by train, and Ness and those guys showing up at the train station,

stopped the train, big shootout in the train. And the train itself, just to build, to look like the 1930s, was going to cost $200,000. Yeah. Not to mention all the other stuff. So it was going to be, you know, a couple million bucks for the scene. And they were, the budget was too high,

so they were like, we can't do this. Mammitt's directing House of Games can't do the rewrite. So DePaul was like, I got this. And he actually did. He had it. But this could have gone terribly. So, Mamet's like, why don't we do this sequence from one of their great masterpieces of World Cinema? I'll just reshoot that. Right. And Mamet's like, wait, what? With the train scenes out? That was one of my best scenes.

But it somehow all worked out. So there you go. Garcia sliding across and throwing him the gun. Also, the way they use slow motion, which doesn't always work in movies. I think sometimes can go pretty badly. It's really good. Yeah, he's got like some peck and paw moves in there and the sliding across, tossing the gun, stopping the baby carriage and getting perfect

aim on that guy is like burned into my memory. Nest throwing a nitty off the roof, the whole roof scene. Yeah. If there's a nitpick, it's like he probably shoots him. He's plenty of reason to shoot him. I don't think

any jury convicts him. Maybe take him down, but it takes takes a lot, but then he finally does it. Any other rewatchable scenes for you? I mean, they're minor. I really like when Malone and Ness meet for the first time on the bridge. Wait a minute. What the hell kind of police you have in this goddamn city? What do they teach you? You just turned your back on an armed man.

You're a treasury office. Yeah, how do you know that? I just told you I was. Who would claim to be that? It was not. Yeah. He's just like, why did you? I just told you I was treasury officer and he's like, well, who would lie about that? Yeah, you got them all. I actually really enjoy the courthouse stuff at the end. Me too. Switching the juries and, you know, you're nothing to but a lot of talk and a badge stuff,

the final confrontation between Ness and Capone. But you got them. And I think we both know what the most rewatchable scene is. Yeah. Not a lot of Patty Clarkson scenes in most rewatchable scenes, I noticed. She's coming up. What's age the best? Prohibition. Great times.

How do you think you would have fair during prohibition? Great times for content. A lot of stuff going on. Yeah. People move and liquor. People have some of the LA houses, especially the ones like in the Hancock Park area and the old Hollywood, they have like these prohibition panels. And, you know, they would have these, they would have to hide the liquor, even if you're having the party. So they would have almost like you would have a safe hiding money. They would have things to hide liquor.

In general, I'm always fascinated by prohibitions. Almost 100 years ago now where this happened, where they just decided, we got to get rid of alcohol. I don't know if you saw the news today, but Joe Biden is going to try and take almost all of the nicotine out of cigarettes. So I'm going to start selling full nicotine cigarettes out of my house. Cigarette Prohibition. Biden's really doing that? I don't know what's going to pass. Jesus.

Al Capone is another What's Age the Best. Great bad guy. One of the great bad guys we've had. I also, what's age the best is De Niro is just doing Trump. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's just like hitting the holding court in opulent apartment buildings. He's at Marilago.

Yeah. The comedy of Connor is Bad Accent, Age the Best. It's actually spectacular how not Irish is. I always enjoy it. it's also going to come up in one stage the worst. The credit in the beginning, wardrobe by Georgio Armani, has aged the best.

That's just like, what a mic drop. Hey, we got Armani to do all the clothes here. The 1930s closing hat's great. Young Costner. Most hairy, sad, I think, in a movie. Really nice, decent-headed. Other than the postman and dances, yeah. The bad guy, played by Billy Drago.

Great bad guy face. Yeah. Could have seen him and a couple other things. I wonder why he wasn't, like, could have been the husband and sleeping with the enemy. He's, I mean, he has a very long career as a character actor. After this, what a really amazing life? Like a really interesting, interesting character.

But yeah, he does like a bunch of westerns. I think he's on TV after this. What's age the best is, so for us, he, the movie that launched this podcast, we've done three. They have the line here. This is a dead man talking to be Jimmy, which I think Michael Mann just cribbed, right? I was going to say too, I thought you were going to say this. They basically pre-heatify the Nes Capone relationship. Yes.

Where it's like you've got the two adversaries who only meet. They get to meet twice in this movie, but really only briefly. Would you have gone diner scene for them? That would be great. Those two in the Italian restaurant that the Untouchables are in earlier? There's a flip side to that coin. What if I have to take you down now? I like the concept of getting your own crew and trusting absolutely nobody else because this is how we founded the ringer.

You drafted right out of the academy. Yeah, I just was like, I got to go sideways. I got to go with like Chris Ryan worked in a Newberry comics. I can trust him. Sean Fennessee, son of a cop. I can trust that guy. And so on and so on. What else, what else age the best for you?

I love Chicago, so it's just great to see real Chicago out here. I mean, they had to shoot it in a very particular way because Chicago's architecture changes so much that there was a lot of like modern building going on, but they shot like a lot of it over like in a three block radius and then they dressed certain areas of downtown or, you know, Miracle Mile or whatever to shoot. So I love that. I love, we talked about like the slightly smooth over mammothisms, which is like it's got mammoth where it's like, I need your help. I am asking you for help, that kind of stuff. And this is one of my favorite Morricone scores. He's got a bunch of big ones, especially the Westerns. But I think this one is the opening credit sequence music

and the big sweeping romantic score are just both incredible. I had him in the next category, the Slow Ride Award for Best Needle Drop. It's weirdly the opening theme. When it's just the credits, something that starts and it's just fucking kicking ass. Yeah.

What'd you have for the Big Cahuna Burger Award for Best Food or Drink? Performance. I actually left this blank unless you want to use just the liquor bottles for prohibition. No, I got this. So I was wondering whether or not, I know that, I don't know if you noticed Capone's breakfast in bed. Yeah. It's OJ coffee and the papers.

And I was wondering if maybe you should start having Ben bring you breakfast in bed where he brings you OJ coffee coffee. and then prints out Hoops Hype for you. He prints out the Hoopsipe River Page Feeder. Shane Larkin re-signed with Israel? That's solid. The Great Shot Gordo Award. A lot of nominees here.

I mean, the opening Barber shot scene is a pretty great shot, but he's a lot of those. What was your favorite shot? I have the, just to get movie nerdy here, the split diopter shot, which is basically where you have like these two focal points in a shot. So in the church,

there's the low angle shot of them talking but then when they cut there's a shot where Costner's fully in focus and to his side Connery's fully in focus and it's just awesome it's just a great use of that of that technique

The Butch's girlfriend Award for the weak link of the film Gee I wonder what you're gonna pick man this is a rough time for these characters the 80s where it's like we gotta work in a wife well he's married you gotta have some scenes with them

and they just don't even try And poor Patricia Clarkson, who's actually a good actress. Yeah, she's got nothing to do. I mean, there's no reason for her to be in this movie. I'll make the case for it. Okay. It's the counterpoint to Capone at the opera, Capone in his hotel, Capone getting his haircut, is Elliot's, this hayseed,

with this very plain life, very, like, wholesome life. and those are the two like moral pulls that were being pulled between. And if you don't have Elliot's home life and you don't have this woman giving him carrot sticks to take to work or whatever, you don't really understand why he's such a square, you know?

Then make those scenes better. Yeah. I don't know, maybe Dave was off that, Dave. You know, I don't know what happened. It was almost like he sketched out the scenes and he was like, I'll go back later and make her more interesting and then just ran out of time.

doing house of games like oh shit i never did anything about the wife it's bad that's how it works what's age the worst connery's accent we mentioned um it's when whenever there's like worst accents of the history of movies lists it's always on there it's been voted the worst accent the whole thing um the movies look i you could probably take 12 minutes out of this movie somewhere so i have the i actually have the the second scene so it opens up and it has capone in the barber chair. And then there's like another five-minute scene of the kid getting blown up. Yep. And I personally, like, after the first time you see this movie, I'm kind of like, I got it. Capone's a bad guy. Right. And it really, it takes like 15 minutes for this movie to get

going at all. I mean, really, it doesn't get going until Conner, he says he's in. Or the first time we see Connor, I get. But I think the first, one of the reasons this is a great rewatchable is if you're jumping in 20, 25 minutes in, that's actually the best time to do it because you didn't really miss much. So I would say that. That. That brings us to the Anchorman flute pre-Bank award. Oh, I have one more, what's age is the worst. Oh, go. Al Capone's understanding of advanced analytics during that baseball speech.

It's a lot of really, like, outmoded ideas about what we know is winning baseball. This is all this chemistry teamwork stuff. It's like Mike Wilbonne on PTI in 2003 talking about the Yankees. And it's like when the guy who's like, teamwork, team, it would have been amazing if he was like, Vorp. Win shares. Have you looked at Bill Dickie's Vorp? It's amazing. Anchorman Flew P-Break Award.

I really think you could come into this movie the moment Conner shows up and you're probably fine. Just take a long 15-minute pee before that, yeah. Was there a better title for this movie? I say no. I have the Chicago Way as an alt. Hmm.

I like the untouchables. Untouchables is pretty great. Plus, they use it in the movie. Yeah. Best quote, I have what the hell you got to die of something. What do you have? I have like basically that entire the Chicago way speech that Connery gives, but my runner up, which I guess goes in, I have the Chicago Way speech.

Okay. He brings a knife, you bring a gun, you send one of his, he sends 20 years to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. A book about medals award for belatedly best quote. we should mention Amy Brennaman is in the old man with Jeff Bridges, basically reenacting another terrible relationship that she shouldn't be in. Why so interested in what I do, lady? It's now the 72-year-old man version of that.

My pick for this is, you married? Nice to be married, huh? Costa slips that in. Yeah. I think that's why they kept all the wife stuff in because they wanted to point out, like, this guy just likes being married and having to. kid and doesn't really want to go down this road. I just wish the wife scenes have been better.

What do you have for this? I have the line that happens between Ness and Stone when Stone slides to save the baby carriage. And Elliot's like, you got him. And he's like, got him. And he's like, take him. That's a good one. All right. Does Stephen A. Smith thought is take a word?

what do you got chris uh i i think that those guys basically sentenced oscar to death and i think that elliot ness is a bad coach in that regard he's not putting his playmakers in position to make plays why do you take the accountant and have him on witness duty right we already know that stone is a great shot he's a tough guy from the south side why are you putting the guy who's like I work with ledgers. But yeah, I'll guard the most wanted man in Chicago from the entire Chicago Mafia. Bad job, Elliot.

Yeah, it's like when Doc Rivers won the 2008 title. No, when he won the 2008 title, but I could go back and nitpick on 95 things. Ultimately, he catches Capone. Yeah, they cost him two of his guys. He lost two guys. It was a ton of extra money. I'm with you.

What's yours? Yeah. I think this was Costner's greatest movie year. I went through his IMDB and he has this and no way out. I think no way out is exceptional. I think it's one of the best kind of non-action action-thrillers we've had in the last 35 years. It's just fucking moves. It's just really good.

There's great actors in it. It's got a good twist. And the fact that he had that in untouchable same year, you go through the IMDB. Every year it's like either he has one. good movie in the year or it's like two good movies but one of them wasn't good and i think looking back this is probably my favorite year for him i wonder if there's like a it's not a movie year but it's like a 12 month period that's better than this like i would probably do field of dreams in bold durham right over that but two different years yeah it's two different years yeah casting what ifs

this was an interesting one for me de palma wanted don johnson for elliot nes and i think this would have been an incredible Don Johnson role. And I love Costa and I love Don Johnson. Those are two of my guys. I think Don Johnson would have done really well in this role. And this is a real like sliding doors moment. Yeah. It really is.

It doesn't do this. And this was like actually weirdly like it's from half ass internet research. But Armani recommended Johnson because he's, he was dressing him on Miami Vice. We did another movie that Don Johnson couldn't do because they wouldn't let him out of the Miami Vice deal. Remember? he's been in a couple wasn't he done Miami Vice by 87?

No, he went all the way through to 90. They wouldn't let him out of his contract to be a movie actor and he was getting offered to all these Kevin Costner parts basically. So, a tough one for Don Johnson because this is like, what's your role in this?

You're supposed to look handsome and be charming and maybe smoke some long cigarettes. Elliot Ness is definitely smoking if Don Johnson's in this movie. Yes. Mickey Rourke also allegedly turned down the role of Elliot Ness, which I believe, because I think he was a pretty hot actor at that point.

It's a completely different movie with him, and I don't think it works. Angel Heart, having a crazy chicken blood sex with Lisa Bonnet was really where he should have landed in 1987. So there's this whole De Niro thing where De Niro didn't take it, and they had Bob Hoskins. Bob Hoskins was going to be Al Capone. Then all of a sudden, DeNero decided he wanted to take it. And De Palma mailed Hoskins, $250,000. 200,000, which is his contract with a thank you.

Sorry, you didn't get the movie. Hoskins calls up to Palma and says, are there any more films you don't want me to be in? He was like, the letter. He's just made $200,000. So those are three pretty good casting what ifs. Yeah, I mean, this, like a lot of movies from the mid-80s is when you do any looking into, like, who was up for this part.

Is all, like, it's 15 guys who are all up for this. It's Keith and Gibson and all that stuff. It sounded like Jeff Bridges's, and Tommy Lee Jones were a little bit more seriously considered for Ness than the Gibson-Keaton crowd. And then there is some Brando smoke about Capone and offering him like $5 million for two weeks' work. Oh, interesting. I put a lot of weight into the premiere because if any reporting was going to happen on any of that stuff, I feel like it would have been in there.

And they made it seem like once a couple of the choices didn't work out, it was college. Yeah. And they had gotten this inside intel on how good Koster was, and that was it. So it's tough. Whenever we do these rewatchables, we're always trying to figure out what's real, what's fake. And it does seem like people go on the internet, they'll go on Wikipedia, IMDB, whatever, and they'll just take whoever the famous actors were, actresses for whatever role at the time, and just be like, yeah, Sharon Stone, Sandra Bullock, and you never know what to believe. The Don Johnson make you work stuff's definitely true. The Bob Hosson says, this is true. Yeah.

Let's, uh, we'll take a break and come back with the other acting awards. All right, it's time for one of our favorites. The Ruffalo, Hannah Rubenek Partridge over acting award. They knew and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady. I come in here. I give these things to you. Give me out of your God.

This and me. Give me all your God. I treated you like a son. You fucking stab me in the heart. Fuck you. You go first because I'll be interested to see if we have the same one. I have a pretty random one, which is the bowtie gangster who holds the bookkeeper hostage in the train station. He's pretty bad, yeah.

See, I'm walking out with the bookkeeper, and the bookkeeper and me are driving away. Or else he dies. He dies, and you ain't got nothing. He's pretty bad. You've got one scene in this movie, and you just push it into the red. You're going for it. I have De Niro for the scene when he's yelling, You got nothing, nothing.

You don't got a thing, you punk. You know, fuck, you got nothing. You got a lot of talk and a badger. You hear because you got nothing. You got nothing in court. You don't got the bookkeeper. You got nothing. Nothing.

And if you were a man, you would have done it now. You don't got a thing. You don't got a thing. You punk. He's just, he dials it up in an unusual De Niro way. He usually doesn't go over the top like that. It's a little like when Pacino is in Dick Tracy, Dick Tracy and was a little too over the top as Dick Tracy, and it was like, are we sure this is good? De Niro has a couple moments of Al Capone where I'm like, wow, he really.

He blew it out here. Yeah, kind of blew it out. Uncharacteristic for him. I also have a Frank Niddy's death dive as overacting. I had that in Nicky, picking Nets. I had that in Nicky, Picky Nets. It's not their fault. It's the mid-80s, but the technology they had for somebody falling to their death was so bad back then. Can you imagine

if they had done that and departed? If they had done that with Martin Sheen. Well, the worst ones die hard, right? Yeah. Best that guy. There's a ton of them. Yeah. Richard Bradford,

the guy with the super white hair who's a bad guy and a bunch of stuff. our guy Don Harvey, who ended up and we own the city 35 years later, he's one of the rookie cops with Costner. Billy Drago's the bad guy. Charles Martin Smith, I think it's Charles Martin Smith.

I don't even think he's that guy. He had a nice little run and some stuff. He had big part in Starman. I'm going to go with either Jack Kehoe, but my personal choice, my favorite. Moron number two for Midnight Run. You have the two guys, and Farina says,

is this moron number one, put more on number two on the phone? I don't know if that guy was born number one or more on number two. He's the one that they have the fake boxing match next to the phone booth. And he's in this as one of the bad guys. And he's one of my favorite that guys. Oh, my God. So I have Chelsea Ross who plays Ed in Major League. Yeah, he's a graduated that guy.

The junk baller. He's from Hoosiers and all that stuff. And then I also have Brad Sullivan who's, tell me what you want to know. That guy in Canada. He's in just a ton of stuff. Deanne Waiters. De Niro is Capone. He's eligible.

Billy Drago is nitty. Or the baby. Ooh. Yeah. Great job by the baby. Yeah. I mean, looks at the ceiling. Seems like it does what it's asked to do.

Some wonderment? Yeah. Did you know that's the stuntman's son? Not surprised. Yeah. I am actually in an upset. I'm going with Billy Drago. I think he's really good as the bad guy.

Great face. I really hated them. In total agreement. Great. Recasting couch. What do you have? Remind me. Are we doing this for contemporary?

You can do it for 1987 or you could say if they're doing this now, who's Elliot Ness? So if you want to make Ness a little bit more fucked up, a little bit more, a little darker. Do you do Richard Gear? And is it a different movie? if he doesn't have that wholesome Costner like, oh, you gotta be kidding me, like kind of thing. If it's Garrett, it's probably rated R

and in one of the scenes with his wife, he's like rolling it over and it gets a little, like he's definitely a little more advanced than she is. He's really getting ambitious in a way she'd realize she was signing up for her. Sure. Or he's taking a crack at somebody else. I just think he's with Stone's wife.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't feel like gear can play it straight in a movie like this. I'm just always going to expect him to have some sort of dark side. Let me throw this one at you. What if we had Gene Hackman in the Connery role? Are we sure it's a worse movie? It's probably way more authentic, right?

I mean, Hackman probably does the Irish accent. Yes. Brings all the same credibility gravitas. He's Gene Hackman. I don't know. Is he a little young in 80s? Gene Hackman by 1985 was the same age for the next 28 years. That's true.

Is he any younger, older than he was in the firm or the Will Smith movie? Oh, enemy of the state? Yeah. I like it. I mean, I can't not see Conry in this, but I like it. Half-ass internet research. De Niro said, I want one extra scene for my character, and I want time to finish my commitment to the Broadway production of Cuba and his teddy bear.

And he wanted to gain 30 pounds to play Capone, De Palma, who's talked about the same. movie a lot, said De Niro was very concerned about the shape of his face for the part. According to Premier Magazine, De Niro made $1.5 million for 18 days of work, which was a lot back then. In preparing for his role as Elliot Ness, Koster met with former FBI agent, Untouchable, Al-Wall-Wallpaper Wolf to learn about Elliot Ness. What kind of name is wallpaper? I love it, though. So the Canadian border never happened. courthouse railway station shootouts never happened

Ness never killed Nitty died by suicide Ness's unit had very little to do with Capone's final tax evasion conviction basically the team from winning time was involved with the untouchable they didn't really realize it yet and then the railway station shootout parodied and naked gun three a movie that slipped through the cracks of history

a little bit yeah Apex Mountain Costner No. No. Prohibition in movies? It's prohibition during the Sting, isn't it? Yeah, that Sting wins.

Sting was a bigger movie. But, I mean, it's not the focus of the Sting, but it is in the Sting. It's a prohibition movie. I'm with you. Andy Garcia, no. Marriage? Marriage seems so hopeful in this movie with the Ness family. Is there an Apex Mountain for Marriage?

1930s marriage? Kramer versus Kramer? Yeah, I don't know. Capone? go this or you go Al Capone's Secret Vaults or you go to Borod Empire. Oh, Border Empire. Stephen Graham and Borradorac Empire.

No, though. I think it's this. I agree. De Palma? No. I'm also going to say no. I don't think so. I think that it depends. I mean, like, I guess this is a very successful,

well-done movie, but I think I think in some ways Mission Impossible is even crazy. If you're going big, If you go on big budget movie, it's Mission Impossible. If you're going peak of his career, I think it's blowout. If you're talking about the admittedly ambiguous category of Apex Mountain, when did he have the most juice? I think it's somewhere between Dress to Kill and Blowout.

Because Dress to Kill was a huge movie, and after that, he could make any movie he wanted. So his next two, he makes Blowout, he makes Scarface. Like, those are pretty strange big swings. I guess Scarface wasn't strange because it was. was a famous movie, but two movies that I think were pretty ambitious for the time. So I would say no for DePoma. No for De Niro.

How about older Connery? So it's this, the Rock. Anything from the 80s or you could go The Rock? Or you could go Finding Forrester. You're the bad now, dog. I think it's for October for me. Okay. Still waiting on that one, by the way.

Mid, I heard you. Mid-80s summer Chicago movies? here are nominees movies filmed in Chicago in the mid-80s running scared about last night Ferris Bueller

above the law adventures of babysitting Midnight Run Big Town and the Untouchables What a run for Chicago Jesus Chicago God damn John Hughes really just

put Chicago on his back there for a few years I think it's Ferris Ferris he's Chicago the best yeah me too although running scared

are you and Van and I are going to do that soon you're in on that I'm going to get my airbrush two shirt like Gregory Hines has. That's my

personal Apex Mountain just in life when they play Michael McDonald as Crystal and Gregorhads are roller skating. That's it. That's everything I want from a movie. The weirdest part of any movie ever is when they're just like these guys go to the Bahamas for 20 minutes. They go to the Bahamas and it's a whole movie that I just want to be

there with them for the next five years. Can they just run a bar in the Bahamas? Can that just be the movie? Do we have to go back to Chicago? Was this their Hall of Fame? plaque movie is a sub question for Apex Mountain

is it for De Palma? You could make the case. I was going to say it is could you make the argument? Is it this or, because he wins the Oscar for this? I guess James Bond is for Connery. But he does win the Oscar for this.

It has to be for Connery. I think for De Palma, you could make the case. This is the movie he made that the most people saw other than Scarface. The answer is either this or Scarface.

Yeah. What's the matter? You need the yay-yo? Best racehorse name from the movie. I'll give you Untouchable or Dago Bastard. I can't have screaming Irish pig. You can't have Screamish Irish pig. Untouchable is a great horse name, though, I was thinking.

Yeah. Dago Bastard. There's Dago Bastard down the stretch. I'm half a tired. I can make these jokes. Picking Nets. Why would Ness want a picture taken of his new crew during this time when he's suspicious of everybody and doesn't want to trust anyone at all? And he's like, yeah, photographer, come on in.

Well, he trusts Scoot. You trust that journalist. We just established that he doesn't trust anybody. And it's not for publication, right? So they claim. What if Capone gets the film? Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter because, like, the cops are on these guys anyway, and the cops are working for Capone. But I hear you.

It's a weird choice by Ness. Word flex. I think the baby is crying uncontrollably. It's weird that... It's weird that... I'm going back to my Oscar getting killed thing. It's weird that Ness and Malone are just like walking around smoking cigars

while they're transferring this witness. And they're just like, I had a kid. How about that? Right. Should be a little more premium placed on. We got to get this witness out. Somebody's going to be trying to take them down. Yeah.

The baby's crying three steps down. It's a lot of bouncing in the 1930s. 30's carriage. Come on. Any of their picking nits? Yeah. So in the train station shootout, did you notice how many sailors get killed? Right. What's up

with that? Like, why did they... I mean, I guess I appreciate those guys' dedication to, like, saving that baby. But if I'm a sailor, my first buddy gets mowed down by the mafia, I'm like, ah, God, let's just hope that carriage gets to the bottom of the stairs on its own.

Yeah. And then, my only other picking day is the Mounties get mowed down. Oh, yeah. Come on. They're like a slow trot with revolvers into all these guys with Tommy guns. It's just the fact that all of them get across the bridge unscathed is surreal. I have a picking nits just for the 1930s. How was it this hard to take down Al Capone? He was like the biggest mobster they had. Because he had the support of the people because people wanted to drink. He just paid everybody. Yeah.

Come on. Do better. Do better. everybody back then. Probably in answerable questions. I didn't really have any because this is based on a true story and we hit all the ones. There's that I've this left me. Yeah, I wasn't like, wait, how did this actually happen? I mean, it's pretty believable that this guy didn't file

us tax returns. The only thing, I guess, like, I'm surprised they didn't even kick around the idea of an untouchables too and just go completely, you know, like think about the fugitive worked and then they talked themselves into U.S. Marshals, which is a pretty flawed movie that I've probably seen 20 times. But I'm surprised they didn't talk to themselves

into Untouchables 2 around like right heading into World War II. They tried to do, they tried to get to Palmer to do Rise of Capone. They tried to get him to do a year. Prequel, yeah. Yeah. And I think he kicked it down the road a little bit

but didn't do it. Well, next category, sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. This would be a pretty good prestige TV. It would be expensive. But at the same time, Boardwalk Empire stepped up at least a little bit. I don't know. I'm leaning toward untouchable, but you could talk me into

prestige TV. So one of the great unmade projects, or at least the one of the unmade projects from the last decade or so that I really, really wanted to see happen was a movie called Torso, which was based on a graphic novel by going to Brian Michael Bendis, I think. And Fincher was going to make it, and it was about Elliot Ness hunting the first serial killer in America. Say no more. I know. And I think Fincher basically did Mine Hunter. I don't know what happened to that, but I was always really interested in that one. Great title.

Would this movie be better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treau, Catherine Hahn, Steve Bouchemy, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, or Philip Baker Hall. I had Bouchemy. I'm just imagining him being like, goddamn Oscar, I didn't know I was in a super cop. Right before Oscar gets his throat slay. And a motherfucker fucking brick. And a motherfucking pint of Jameson. Man, this prohibition's got you sideways, Oscar?

Oh, man. Yeah, with the answer, it's probably Wayne Jenkins for every action movie. When Jane Jenkins was Stone, when they pick him out at the academy and it's just like, it's Wayne Jenkins Day? Come on. Oh, my God, Wayne Jenkins Day would have been incredible in this. Just want to ask her, who gets it? So you're still going to it to Connery? Make the Costner case for me.

I can tell you want to do it. I don't think he was good enough compared to the 87 candidates. I think that was the Michael Douglas Wall Street year. I don't think he would have won. Connery, the category was weaker, but I still feel like Albert Brooks could have won.

Maybe Mamet? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know if I would maybe... Oh, music. Craig says music. Craig. Yeah. Morricone. Good job, producer Craig. Thank you.

Way to go, Craig. Yeah, Morricone. Great. What do you have for Best Double Feature Choice for this movie? I have it with Scarface. Oh. Yeah.

Just two incredible De Palma crime epics. I have it with No Way Out. It's a cost our 1987 doubleheader. Do No Way Out first, Untouchable Second. Be the way to go. Well curated. So the next award is the Indie and Red Zouantene Award for the next day,

which we know what happens the next day. So I'm going to twist this a little bit. Walk me through the next 10 minutes after Capone beats the guy to death with a baseball bat. Like is dessert off at this point? Like everybody just quietly leaves. What are the next six minutes look like? Yeah, is there like a sitting room where people go for cognac and just like,

Jesus Christ, do you fucking see Al? Dinner got out of hand. Al killed the guy. It's like Ackerman. Hey, anybody going to the speakeasy? I just want a bunch of money on screaming Irish pig at the Belmont. Honey, what happened to your suit? Why is there blood on it?

Oh, man, Al killed the guy. It was fucking nuts, man. She just got really mad. Hit a guy of the baseball bat. There's blood everywhere. Then we went to the speakeasy. Yeah, just I would love to know, like, the leaded scene next seven minutes. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie?

Ironically, the baseball bat is my answer. That's what an amazing thing to have? It's like, what's that? That's the baseball bat from the untouchables. What do you have? I have the St. Jude charm that Connery has. It seems pretty cool. Patron's St.

and lost causes. I like that. Coach Finstock, a word for best life lesson. I'll give you two choices. Trust nobody. Or if you're afraid of getting a rotten apple, don't go to the barrel, get it off the tree. I really like that one. I like the ladder.

I should be thinking that way. I also, thanks. I also like the, when he goes, is like, trust nobody. He's like, well, what do you mean? Trust nobody. Just ask me to trust you. Right.

Yeah, that was good. Who won the movie? Who do you have? Kind of wide open. I have Connery. I think Connery is a very good choice. I respect it. But I actually think it's Koster

because he had to prove that he could be the leading man in a movie like this. And once he did that, the next 10 years fall into a place for him in a really dramatic way. And he becomes one of the most important,

you know, big picture, big market actors that we've had. He's one of like the seven, eight, I don't know what the complete list is, where you could just put him in anything and people would go. There's just like 10 other movies where you can say Kossner won the movie. I just think that Conner, in a pretty, not small part, but like it's like a part that

goes into a slot. It's definitely a supporting role, like is just so magnetic in this. Let's bring in producer Craig and he can have the tiebreaking vote. Craig, who do you have? The only reason why I would say it's Connery is because I don't have a huge relationship with Connery, and I feel like I know Kossner's so much more. So every time I get to see Connery in a movie, I love him a lot. And I'm like, wow, he's so great.

I wish I watched more movies with him. So every time I see him in a movie that you guys pick, he always jumps off the screen to me. So I'm going to pick him. Yeah, that's good. We take Connery for granted. Yeah. I think that's a good peeve. He is kind of a one-on-one.

He's handsome dude. What's great for him in this movie because he's bald. He's wearing all the hats. So it makes him look 10 years younger right away. He's wearing the Bryson DeShambo. Oh, yeah. He looks great. Close on Connery in this movie in general.

What did you think of the movie? you never saw it, Craig. No, and I was really excited to see it. I liked it a lot. I thought, kind of what Chris said is, there's like four just, like, awesome scenes that really capture you. I did think it was a little cheesy at times.

I was kind of surprised, like, some of the Costner lines, like, even at the end, like, what are you going to do next? And he's like, have a drink. It's like a little Hollywood-y, much more so than, like, a lot of the other mob movies that I, like, know and loves. At the end of the movie,

we didn't do the third act meltdown, and I would not say that cost, has a third act meltdown, but he does start doing a lot of, like, he's in the car, like kind of Hollywood lines down the, down the stretch here. Yeah,

we should have, I should have put that one in there. The third act meltdown. You're right, because, yeah, I don't love the last, like,

five minutes of this movie. I think you're supposed to feel like Ness has compromised himself and is, like, leaning into it. But at the same time, it's still Costner,

so you're like, this guy's such an apple pie dude, like, why is he bragging about throwing this dude off a roof? I never really bought, to be honest, that he goes so quickly from like family man follow the law, and then like the guy threatens his family in a car, and now he's like, I'll kill anyone. I thought it was just a pretty big leap. Yeah, that's a good nitpick. It's hard.

I've seen this movie so many times. I almost can't look at it objectively, like with the fresh set eyes, which I think Craig's right. But part of it is 1987. Some of the stuff was a little corny. You know, you almost sort of that in the woods, stage. the worst. Like, they didn't even blink twice. Like, all the stuff with the wife would just never happen now. Yeah. You know, they would make sure they had some sort of something for her to do. No actress would want that part either. Also, there's one line that I loved when they're down at the Police Academy,

and they talk to Stone, but they talk to that other guy first, and he's just like babbling. Oh, yeah. I can't say anything. And then he walks away and Conner, he goes, that's the next chief of police right there. Yeah, that was a great one. That's a good book about medals line. Yeah, yeah. All right. This is fun. Produced by Craig Horlebeck, as always. Chris, your dirty Irish pig. It's great to see you. That was the Hattouchables. We'll be back next week. A lot of rumors about our July 4th movie, by the way. Perculane. I don't know if you've read anything in the trades. Give me a hint. There's going to be a text, and I think you guys are going to be surprised for the July 4th movie. I've been scouting it for a while. In person? It's very possible.

This one should be in person if we do it. But it's one of the ones we've discussed for a long time. Oh, interesting. So, all right. That's it for the rewatchables. We'll see you next week.