The Rewatchables - ‘The Verdict’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey are not paid to do their best, they’re paid to win, and to rewatch Sideny Lumet’s 1982 masterpiece ‘The Verdict,’ starring Paul Newman, Jack Warden, and James Mason. Written by David Mamet. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An Instagram post gets an unexpected boost. A TikTok catches in the algorithm. Sometimes that's all it takes to launch someone into internet fame. But then what? This Blue Up is a new podcast documentary that reveals how social media stardom is made. It's a different kind of fame. That's not always as glamorous as it looks. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Melissa Boresnack.

You can listen to This Blue Up on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Built for today's creative process, Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast, because the asks aren't getting smaller, and the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash Firefly. This episode is brought to you by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo.

That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms of play. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network

where you can find the big picture with Sean Fennacy. Yes, you can. Chris, you do any podcasts? I'm dedicating all my time to Rahim Palmer. Rehame Palmer content? Yeah, just really special. Me and Rahim talking Sixers. Okay.

And the watch? Retired. Yeah, no. Retired. That's gone? Done. Okay. You retired?

Yeah. I'm announcing it right now. Does Andy know? This is the decision. Sad to hear. My name is Bill Simmons. You can hear me in the Bill Simmons podcast. Coming up, there are no other cases.

This is the case. This is the case. The verdict is next. Four cases in the last three years. He's lost them all. This man scared to death to go to court. I can win it. I can win this case.

Well, maybe you just better do that then. This disappear on me. I'm going up there. I'm going up there. I'm going to try it. I'm going to let the jury decide. Paul Newman, the verdict, rated R, starts Friday at a selected theater near you. All right. This movie came out in 1982.

It is one of the best movies The last 40 years. I'll fight anyone who thinks differently. It's one of the best Boston movies of all time. It is Paul Newman's probably defining performance. Certainly his best acting he's ever done in the movie, and of course he didn't win Best Actor. We'll talk about that later.

Sean has down on his luck, alcoholic lawyer ever not worked in a movie? Are there examples of it not working? It's never worked this good. This is it. This is the apex of all the sad lawyers. you're going to see in a movie. Really, really great.

You've been talking to me about this movie ever since I've known you. This is one of your faves. Yeah, you've been chasing this one. Yeah, I was waiting until the 40 year. It's an iconic Boston movie, and then there's some stuff about that that I don't want to talk about

what we're going to happen. I have Mount Rushmore for Boston movies. The Verdict, 1980s. Goodwill Hunting, 1990s. That departed 2000s in the town, which I think was 2010. 2010, yeah. So that gets us in all decades.

If you want to go into the 70s, I'm happy to talk about the Friends of Eddie Coyle for about an hour. The Spencer movie that Walberg made. No. They didn't make the list. There's been some other ones, but those are the four. And anybody who has a list of those four, but the verdict was like, you know, that was it.

This was the movie for a long time. So when you, go ahead. No, I'm just going to say, like, why? Why is that the case? What is it about the verdict that makes you think Boston aside from the location? Like, is there a certain quality to it? Frank.

He's this a guy you know. Frank the actor, that white hair, that kind of still handsome. Definitely, his car has about 110,000 admoners on it, prone to baby Shona at the bar a little early during the day. There's a feel to it. I'll mention it now. I was devastated to learn that the bar that I always thought was in the Boston Common was actually a New York City bar because my entire life I thought the bar was in Boston.

Wait until you know about this, yeah? Yeah, we'll get into it later, but I blame my dad. is one of my dad's six or seven favorite movies. And for some reason, my dad, I don't know whether he heard this or what happened. Said that was a bar in the Boston Common. And I thought

it was right at the end where like, kind of where Emerson is now. And I just assumed that was there. And every time I was in the Boston Common, it's like, oh man, it was so cool if that verdict bar was still there. So did your dad lie to you like it was Santa Claus? I think he just heard the wrong thing and it just took a lie of its own.

So I've been in that area for my my entire life, basically, since this movement, I'm like, oh, man, the verdict bar. And now it turned out. It was filmed in New York. This is worse than the Babe Ruth trade. But I think that there is an element of half-ass internet research that will almost save it from the fact that it was not.

Where is this in relation to, what was it called? Like, what was the combat zone? The combat zone. Combat zone, not that far away from where we thought the bar. Frank Calvin and night or two ended in the combat zone. I can guarantee that. So, Chris, is this a Paul Newman movie? Is this a legal movie?

Is this a Boston movie? What is it? It's a Newman movie, and it's a courtroom drama. The reason why it works is a courtroom drama is this thing that Lumet, Sydney Lumet, the director said when there's a behind-the-scenes video, you can find it on YouTube. But he goes, the case only serves as an instrument

by which a man saves himself. So the case is actually not that complicated. It is supposed to be a layup. He is supposed to get this settlement from the Archdiocese. It is supposed to be open and shut. but he sees something bigger in it. You know, not only justice for this woman who's in the hospital bed

for the rest of her life, but also for himself. Personal redemption. Yeah, salvation. And that's, that is like a truly, like, amazing thing to watch happen when you got it in the hand. It's a tool that you put in the hands of a master. And Romet's a master, Newman is a master,

Jack Warden is a master, James Mason is a master. It's a simple, simple story told amazingly well. but not what you think of when you think of courtroom dramas, right? You think of courtroom drama, you think of a few good men, you think of to kill a mockingbird,

you think of movies with big speeches, you know, witnesses on the stand giving fiery testimony. It has a little of that, but it's very downbeat, and it's a very calm film, very sad film, often very quiet. A lot of this movie is Paul Newman,

perhaps the most charismatic movies of the 1960s and 1970s, not doing a lot and not seeming like the coolest person on earth. And that was unusual for him. I mean, he really relied on his good looks and his natural charisma. And so

we celebrated, and I feel the same way that you do. I think this is like an incredibly exciting movie in a way, but it's so quiet and so simple. But I, so, we're obviously going to talk a lot about Newman. And I agree with you 98%. And then

there is the 2%, which which is him at the bar with his Zippo, talking to Charlotte Rambling, and doing what is essentially the dry run for what will be his summation at the end of the movie. Yeah. Where he's like, the weak people need justice. Weak people need somebody to say, you know what? You can't fight City Hall, all this stuff. And he's giving her this speech and Lumet shoots him and it's like, that's a fucking movie star.

Like if you ever, ever want to just put something and just say like, hey, I don't understand. What's movie stardom? A thousand people do that speech. a thousand people sit in that shot. His eyes explode off the screen. He looks like he's 40 feet tall. He's just like, it's like you get pulled into his gravitational field.

And no matter what Frank does other than that, you're like, I'm with this guy. Yeah, even at the end when he sees her at the tail end after the verdict, and the camera cuts in. And she's just like, Paul Newman's fucking handsome. He blew it. Yeah, she blew it. And he kind of wears that with the character. It was this guy that obviously had everything going.

the late 60s, working for this firm, super handsome, married, and now he's where he is, but still kind of can towel it up a tiny bit. I knew, so I saw this movie in the theater, Boston movie had to go, but I knew Newman from

Slapshot and from The Sting and from Butch Cassidy and from all the 70s movies. We didn't really watch the 60s movies as much, but Slapshot was like a huge movie to me. You see him and Slapshot versus him in this movie, and it's like he's aged 17, 18 years, and it's five.

It's a five-year difference in those movies. I love, and we talked about this with, we talked about it with Cruz and a couple other actors when a movie can catch them at the right point of their life, and I think this is like the ultimate example of that. He couldn't have been in this movie five years earlier,

and maybe not even five years later, but right here, it's a movie I've always wanted Cruz to make that I don't think he wants to make, because Cruz doesn't want to get old. Cruz is never going to look like this. He's never, he's never going to allow his hair to get white. He's Top Gun Maverick. his version of watching Miles Teller play great balls of fire and looking old as he's watching and that's the furthest he's ever going.

So Newman was 56, I think, when they filmed this movie. Right now, Tom Cruise is 60. Yeah. Put this Newman. Actually, if you put the Newman in the color of money, he's almost the exact age that Cruz is right now. And it's just like, it's two different species of humanity. Yeah, but that's also like there is a kind of, uh, You know, this is a period piece of a period that I still remember, you know, and it's kind of really effective that way.

And I just, I just watch this movie and think of my dad. And I'm sure you think of your dad. I'm sure you think of your dad. And like our dads, these northeastern cities, these fucking bars during the daytime. And everybody's smoking and everybody's reading the newspaper. And everybody, it's like that slate gray northeastern winter sky where you're like, is it 10 a.m. or 4.30 p.m. I have no idea. Yeah. And so like that is it November or March? Guys just looked older than. You remember when you were in junior high and you would see a senior in high school and you're like, Jesus, I'm kidding. Will I ever be that old? And now when you look at kids,

you're just like, oh, they're kids. You know what I mean? When you look at a senior in high school, you've got a senior in high school. You must just be like, you seem like a kid to me. But when we were growing up, like people, I think age just felt different. They lived harder.

Yeah. They lived way harder. Life was harder. They drank harder. They stayed up. They didn't sleep well. They ate pure garbage. It steaks at 10.30 p.m. at a bar.

I don't think of my dad. I think of my dad's friends that we were in our first fantasy baseball in the 80s, fantasy baseball league. And it was these guys from this bar, the 7th, which is in Beacon Hill. And there was this one guy, this guy, Dennis Flynn, who was a legend. He was this ball guy with this big handlebar mustache. And he was just kind of at bars every day. And everybody knew him.

And he was just the most personal, fun guy. Nobody even really knew where he lived. and it was just this whole world. I'm sure there's still a bar world like that, but it's not like it was in the 80s. And it's like, I grew up going to this bar on Pennsylvania in Philly, and it was like right off of like kind of like the art museum area.

And it was in a hotel, but it was a bar that he would just take me there at one for an Eagles game. Yeah. And give me like $2 and quarters to go play Pac-Man while he sat there. And it was just like, guys just got after it. Yeah. Like on Sunday afternoon. You know, and it, not in the sort of like Sunday-Funday way of like unlimited mimosas.

It's like, no, they drank like 11 beers over the course of seven hours. I'm looking at the bar that I spent so much time in as a kid with my dad and a bunch of cops called the St. James. It's in Minneapolis in Minneapolis, all these bars have a the, before the word that it shouldn't have a the in front of. And I don't think I really recognize what was happening. Like how, you never do. Simultaneously like exhilarating some of those nights, were for those guys and how sad some of those nights

were for those guys. And you kind of see that in Newman's character in both ways. When he's telling the joke and he's got the room in the palm of his hands and not one scene, a bunch of drunk guys that are not even really friends and don't even really know each other. They're only laughing at him so that he'll buy them bush mills. Yeah. And that's like pathetic, but also he feels like

he's in the spotlight, you know? And so like both things can be true at the same time. So funny. I mean, I think this stuff does still exist. Like the St. James is clearly still open. Yeah. So, you know, there is still bar culture in this way. People may take care of themselves a little It's more like, it's that combined with the era of somebody leaving a room and Jack Warner like, hey, can you pick me up a pack of cigarettes when you're out?

Which I think is seven of his 20 lines in the movie. He asks Laura 14 times. Hey, Laura, get the cigarette. While she's on the phone. Maybe have a carton in there. Are you calling the cigarette guy? I was trying to think what makes for a Boston movie, like what those four, the verdict in the town, a Goodwill Hunting in the part of it.

Goodwill Hunting is probably the most pure Boston. movie. Like, it really goes out of its way to be a Boston movie. Like, it has the fist speech, and it's got, you know, Bunker Hill and, like, it's got the Robin Williams

versus the guy who went to school with. It's got that stuff. It's got the Southie. It's taking the train. Everything about it is Boston. You can't make it. You could maybe make this movie without Boston,

but I think it uses a couple of locations in a way that just feels like early 80s Boston to T, which makes it so upsetting to find out that the bar was in New York City other than that. Well, as an outsider, right? I've only been to Boston a handful of times in my life.

And you loved it each time. You're just like, what a great place. I've always had a good time in Boston. I've got nothing bad to say about Boston. It's a nice second city. Third city? All right. You're from a second city.

The thing that fucking... It felt like... It always felt like a series of interconnected small towns. And the idea of like the archdiocese being incredibly powerful in this community. and the idea of it running the hospital in this way. That felt very Boston. It feels very Boston. Yeah.

That's what I was going to say. In my experience of just being in the city a handful of times, it feels like, you know, the way that many kind of big, small cities have like these centers of power. And that this is the best way to tell a story like this is like, this is the biggest, most powerful thing in a place that is not that big, ultimately, you know? And so it makes the underdog story feel more powerful by setting it in a place like this.

Well, the book was written by Barry Reed. two years earlier, which they didn't really use a ton from, but I think they used the framework of it. Lumette was like, this is a bad book. Yeah. And there's an interview with that dude on YouTube, and he's like a classic Boston lawyer. It's like, yeah, we went out there, and his guy definitely has the

accent. But Lumet dumped that, and then we'll go through all the script variations on it. Newman, because this was a Paul Newman Newman vehicle. That's how it was sold. Even though LeMette had incredible cachet at that point. You want to do

30 seconds on the Met or you want to do that later? 30 seconds. Yeah, I'll do it later. Lema had some cachet. His 50 years worth of movies that he made. LeMette had some cachet. But for the moviegoer, it's like Paul Newman's in a movie where this is a complete change of pace for him. And this might be the one he wins the Oscar.

Was definitely part of the narrative with this movie. He'd been nominated four times and never won at this point. Six times. Six times at this point? Yeah, four best actors. Oh, yeah, four times. You're right. And then this one and then the other one.

Yeah, my bad. But the last nomination was Cool Hand Luke in 1967. It's been 15 years. Didn't seem like it was going to happen. But he was beloved. We talked about him when we did the Caller Money one. He was one of the most famous actors of the first 50 years of my life. Yeah.

And had outsize real fame. Him, he had that. I think Redford had it. I think Eastwood had it. And Bert Reynolds. And those were the four biggest actors of the first, like, 25 years of my life. And him and Eastwood. and Newman kind of like also transcended acting, you know?

Yeah. Not only because they became like sort of big figures in other industries, but just kind of like, it was like Newman, Eastwood, and Redford just like stood for their own separate religions, you know? We talked about when we did, I think Caller Money, we talked about that test they do, that Goldman used to be obsessed with every year, the 10 most well-known actors and where they ranked each year. And this is like Newman's like second, third, fourth, first, fifth.

He never really let more than three years go by without getting himself into a hit. Even in the 70s, which is a little bit of a funny period for him where he's trying to figure out how to hold on to mainstream stardom, but also trying to make weird movies with Robert Altman, trying to figure out how to direct movies himself.

You know, his wife is starting to make like really challenging stuff to him Woodward. Like, he still did slap shot, you know? Like, he still made the verdict. Like, every few years, he's like, I got to do a big-time movie star part. And I have great. He always had really, really interesting taste after the early 60s when he picked a lot of bad movies.

And he, like, something switched in the late 60s where he's like, I only do premium stuff or stuff that I think is fascinating. And so it makes him great. It's also what's so awesome about the actors of the 70s decade is that they were sort of met at the moment with these directors and with this material that was really kind of different than what we had seen before and maybe different from what we get after. And in a lot of ways, the verdict is more of a 70s movie than it is an 80s movie. Totally agree. Yeah. It feels like it could have come out in 1970. Yeah. It's very much out of like five easy pieces and like those kinds of like, oh yeah, this is like a new America that we're looking at.

Sad character study. Yeah. I remember the Xander Hollander sports books that used to come out for each sport like NHL, NFL, NBA, M-OB. And I would get all of them as a little kid. I was like, oh my God, you just like basically the internet for whatever sport you liked. Are they like almanacs or something? Yeah, they're almanacs with little profiles and the stats for each player. I would just read them like a maniac. The NHL one came out The Year's Slapshot and Newman was on the cover because this new movie

was coming out Slapshot and like my head almost like oh my God Paul Newman made a hockey movie like that's how important it was it's hard to explain now because I don't you know it's like

what Wesley wrote about how movie stars are basically just gone now and if there are movie stars they're either over 50 years old or wearing suits Newman you just felt like if he wanted to be in a movie,

you at least had to think about going to see it unless their reviews said, don't go see this. But for any choice he made, it was like, hmm, what's this? I think that's why he had so much respect generally relationally with, like somebody like Cruz,

he just wanted to be Paul Newman, right? I don't think people are like, I want to be Tom Cruise. I think they want the success he said. For a 10-year run there, Cruz is running his career more like the way Newman did, where he's like,

I want to work with Kubrick, I want to work with PTA, I want to work with Spiel, I want to work with the best. I want to do interesting shit. He created the blueprint for that. Cruz always had an eye on commercials, though. Even his weirdest choices felt very mainstream.

If you look closely at what Paul Newman did, he made odd character movies. You know, he made the life in times of Judge Roy Bean. He made Quintet. He made Buffalo Bill. Those are challenging odd movies that kind of don't work, but they're fun to look at in the context of Butch Cassidy, the Sting, the Verdict.

slap shot, all these great movies that you love that give you that like charge of I'm watching something special I'm watching something iconic. He's an iconic movie star, right? He's a person who's like, yeah. If we were doing the Mount Rushmore thing, there's a good case for him as the American movie star. Yeah, he might be like

Jordan in the sense he checks the most boxes for what we would want from a movie star. He tried in the 70s. I remember there's this book called The Front Runner that was really controversial about a bestseller about a gay track coach who fell in love with one of his racers.

And Newman tried to get it made for like three, four years, and none of the studios would make it. They're like, we're not putting you in a movie like this. But it was like, he was way more artistic. You know, Redford, who I think cared about this stuff in different ways and cared about the Sundance and the filmmaker stuff, but he was always, there was a calculation to every choice he made. I don't feel like Newman was calculating like that.

The story of the difference between the two is told in the making of this movie. Well, we should do that now, right? So quickly, they get Mamet to write a script and they think who's it going to be? Arthur Hiller is going to be the director? Yeah. And Mamet's script and it's not quite there

and then all of a sudden they start farting around with different scripts. This is Daryl Zanick and David Brown, the guys who produce Jaws. Yeah, they've had it for a while and they're trying to figure it out. Somehow, somebody else writes a script, this guy, Jay Allen.

and Redford And it's a lady writes it Jay Pressing Allen Oh that's a lady Okay Redford gets a copy of it Now Redford's in And you know my feelings about Redford

From previous rewatchables Like uh oh here comes Redford Probably gonna be shady He's got a lot of ideas About how to make the movie His movie Brings in his own writer Now there's screenplays

Guess what Redford does Oh Our guy Frank Alvin Let's make them a little less Let's make them a little more likable not a drunk. He doesn't want him to be a drunk. Get rid of the drinking. We're like, we'll just make him an underdog.

And then he does something shady, apparently. He starts having meetings with Sidney Pollock. The producers get mad. They fire Redford. And at this point, they have like 100 scripts of different things people wrote. And they just go back to the mammoth script. They get

Sean's guy, Sidney Lamet, and the rest is history. But Redford wanted to be the very... And honestly, Redford and the verdict would have sucked. Yeah, and even in the verge would have sucked. It's just a different movie. It becomes a generic Hollywood movie. And I really respect some of the stuff Redford's done,

and obviously we've done a few of his movies, but this is not the movie for Robert Redford. It's just not. Well, I think that what you were describing him before is right, which is that I think he's always been an awesome advocate for the arts. But when it came to his art, there's something a little bit plastic about the way that he allows himself to be presented.

Yeah, it's almost like he is the candidate. Yeah. Yeah. He is the guy from the candidate. Yeah, he's very protected and kind of non-controversial and like heroic and bland ways. Occasionally he makes a unusual movie like The Electric Horseman or something like that, but it's not it's not often. Yeah. He makes great movies, but I agree with what you said.

Like Paul Newman took chances and he was, this is the thing that's interesting about this one is, I think it's fair to say this is the first time that he was ever played like a real loser. You know, like somebody who played the game of life and came out, Snake Eyes. There are other characters that he's played in this era specifically slap shot. And even the sting, because Gondorfs are drunk too. But he described it in an interview as like, those guys all were light on their feet. They all had a confidence. Rastly near-do-wells. Even if they were losers, they were like, I'm a loser because I have morals or I have a loser because I stuck to my principles or whatever.

This guy's just a loser. And up until this moment, he would have taken the 210K. He is an ambulance chaser. When we meet him, he is going through obituaries and showing up uninvited to people's wakes. That's who he is. So he's not cocky. And your point about the joke is so perfect

because it's like his only fans, his only audience is those guys. It's not like he can get through in respectable society. He doesn't have a jury because he can't get any cases. The difference in Newman and Redford just fundamentally is that

guys would have wanted to hang out with Newman. and girls would have wanted to hook up with them. Redford is the guy who's an indecent proposal who's offering you a million dollars to take your wife. That's like, I think in his core, I think that's who he is. Here's a weird. Newman never would have been in that movie.

Redford's like, that makes total sense. I'll definitely be in that movie. How much you're paying me? Would Paul Newman have done a Marvel movie the way that Robert Redford did? Redford absolutely would have done a Marvel movie. He does. No, but I mean, in 19th century

is right. But like the fact that at the end of his career, he's like, sure, I'll appear in three of my six final performances will be in Marvel movies. Which is really weird that he did that. I understand why, because you're trying to retain like a sense of relevance. But Newman is just a better actor than Redford.

As much as Redford's done great stuff, but Redford's just playing Redford in different parts, right? It's not like he's not crafting performances. Nobody's like, oh my God, Redford. I think until this point, Newman didn't get credit for doing that. And this movie changes his legacy. Well, think about Slapshot.

He's fucking incredible in Slap Shot. Like, how is that guy a successful character in a movie? I don't even know what to make in that guy. And to your point about having an edge. Like, Slapshot's the most profane movie other than last detail that had ever come out. The things that come out of that guy's mouth, there's like, this is scandalous.

But he had figured out how to be... Craig's ever seen it. Goddamma, Craig. You suck. No slap shot. Sorry, no, I haven't seen it. Okay. Great shot.

A lot of movies out there, guys. Have you noticed Bill turning on you on this show? Yeah, what's up with that? A little bit. No, Craig love the verdict. We're back. Slapshot's a comedy, and Newman was really funny. If you watch interviews with him in 1959, he's really funny.

Redford never could have been the guy from Slaps. He's not that funny. But conversely, I don't know if Newman could have been Bob Woodward in all the president's men. He couldn't. Robert Redford really catching a lot of strays in the first 20 minutes of this podcast. Listen, how many times can we do? a podcast where it's like, oh, Robert Redford did something shady.

Oh, cool. I think we're up to like five. He's still alive. Great. I don't care. We should have a playlist of rewatchable's pods where it's just like the Redford Chronicles. It's just us being like, I'm dropping elbows on him. Thank God, Robert Redford didn't get not like I'm making shit up. Go on the internet. People, listen, go read stuff.

He is a very powerful tool and in certain movies he is irreplaceable. In this movie, he wouldn't have worked. Newman also has that quality. He had the switch, which I think Cruz has to. and I think Clooney has it but like if you're doing Ocean's 11 Newman would have been the lead guy in Ocean's 11 right

he would have been the guy that got everyone together he would have been the guy that convinced you to do one last job or like the had the girl from his past that you know they broke up but she still likes them there's just some every man kind of but still devastatingly handsome and just cool that I don't

not a lot of people have I think Pitt kind of has it but Pitt's almost closer to Redford than Newman He's like a mix of both of them. I agree. There's a scene in the film Ticket to Paradise, which came out this year where George Clooney...

I unfortunately saw it. But, okay, so I was not a big fan of the movie. It's horrible. But there's a scene at the bar, at a bar, hotel bar, late at night. Yeah, and sit next to his daughter's friend. Yeah, and it seems like

they're going to start fucking on the bar. And they don't, thankfully. It's a very real like, oh my God, I hope it doesn't go this way. But then he gives a monologue where I'm like, God damn, George Clooney, is he one of the best actors alive? And it's like an amazing scene

in a pretty bad movie and it is, it's a thing that Newman could do, it's a thing that a, you know, Denzel is like a very short list of men who can give a kind of like, I've been kind of coasting through this performance, but don't forget,

I'm this guy. Yeah, it's like when you go to an NBA game and you watch somebody just jogging through the first three quarters and then they can just score 10 points in two minutes. Yeah, oh, you still got it. The Denzel thing is a very good.

It's like, he can be an equalizer too and then all of a sudden it's just like, I'm still Denzel Washington, by the way. Definitely. Yeah, I think it's funny you mentioned Clooney because I felt like he's the closest to Newman of all the recent generation guys but just was so bad with how he sketched out his career

and the choices he made. And he just, he never understood Cruz, Newman, Redford. These guys were so smart at the strategy of staying a star. Denzel's like that too. Although I think Denzel probably in the 2000s moves into a different phase. But Clooney never got it. Like, just every, like what you said about Newman, three years, I'm going to give you one.

Clooney never understood that part. It's probably a real tightrope to walk to be, to think, like, you might be the smartest guy in the room as well as the prettiest, and just be like, I want to work on this material, and like, I'm going to have a say in how the script goes. And all those guys have that. All those guys mess around with that stuff. Credit to Clooney, he basically

did the same thing that Newman did. I mean, Newman directed a lot of movies. Some of them are fine. None of them are classics. Clooney also wrote and directed a lot of movies. Most of them are just fine. He's a bad director. But he spent a lot of time working on it. that stuff. You know, working on confessions

of a dangerous mind. What's the one what's the one of Damon? The Promise Land? No, no, that's like a period. The George Clooney Film Festival would be sparsely attended. It's not, it's not, it's not, the one I'm thinking of. There's another one of Damon. What was the Rick Riley football movie? That was terrible. Leatherheads. Yeah. He's had a lot of

his batting average is like a hundred. That's right. That's Gus Van Zane. I love George Clooney. I do, too. I do too. If he didn't write in direct movies, you might be even kinder to him in this context because he might have just done the every three years thing, but every three years instead, he went off to make his own movie. And it's hard. Also, the business change. It's a whole other conversation. But they're definitely in a lineage together. It's like, C.R. doesn't do that. He knows

like, my bread is buttered. Yeah. On the watch. Yeah. Where else is it butter? That's some directing podcast. Yeah, you don't see me coming in here and be like, we need to lay off Robert Redford. You never know? You've been talking to Redford? You'd have been going to Sundance Labs with my script. What is Newman's best performance for you, Sean? His best are our favorite? What's his best? Let's go best, then we can go favorite.

I think his best is cool hand loop. I think that's the one where it's like he invented, he represented something, I think, to a culture with his attitude that, you know, in small ways changed American culture, like American popular culture. If you don't think people put that up there with on the waterfront and rebel without cause, you know. I think this movie is definitely. in the conversation. I think nobody's fool is definitely in the conversation. I think there's a handful of movies where this is just different because it's much more... How about Fort Apache in the

Bronx now? Not on my list. Not the worst movie in the world. Yeah, not on my list. I don't know, what's yours. Um, I know you love Slapshot. No, I think this, I think this is my favorite Newman because, um, I think he's bringing stuff into it that I didn't think he had in him. Like, I'm not surprised that he was good as Cool Hand Luke and some of the other, even Slap. shop, but this one I didn't, I don't think people knew he had this in him. And I think that's what made it special. And you can even see it from the reviews. Like, part of the reviews when you read them from 40 years ago, like somebody like Ebert, where they're just like, wow, this is amazing how this played out. The Newman's in this movie at this point in his career. And I think

that's, I don't know. I think that's cool. What did, besides Cool Hand Luke, what else would you say? I would say, slap shots my favorite, but I think this is his best. verdict. Yeah. This in color of money. But he's also a amazing in Butch Cassidy in the Sunday It's kid. Don't sleep on like how fucking amazing he was. I'm a huge fan of Harper and the drowning pool.

Yeah. His two detective movies, which I think are really, really good. Harper's good. So, you know, you can just like spin the roulette wheel

with him and like almost certainly you're going to see at least an interesting movie. Yeah. Well, he didn't win the best actor. No. Your boy Kingsley did. It's a top five Oscar travesty for me.

It makes me so mad. Brutal year all around. Yeah, we've hit this year before because we did E.T. And E.T. got screwed over in a bunch of ways, too. But we have... Is Gandhi the least deserving of the top of the Best Picture nominees? When's the last Gandhi conversation you had? E.T. Verdict missing.

This was just this era of the Oscars when they felt like big and important, the more big and more important you seemed was how you won the Oscar. And people were stunned. I mean, you could argue, Dustin. Hoffman and Tootsie could have If he lost to that, I'd been like, I don't agree with that, but I kind of get it. Right. But the Gandhi thing's awful.

But I think people were bummed out. You also have Peter O'Toole in my favorite year that year. And he never won. Right. He was nominated like eight times, and he ultimately never won. And you had Jack Lemon and missing. For Best Picture, you had Gandhi, E.T. Missing, and the verdict.

I mean, this is just the, you know, Merrill Street, Sophie's choice. Just, I think she was like a minus 2,000 favorite. Did Warden get nominated for supporting actor? James Mason. James Mason did. Lithgow got nominated for World of Card and Garp, which I'm ready to do in the rewatchables. I'll probably be by myself. No, I would happily join you for that.

I love that movie. I absolutely love that movie, and I think it would be among the least list and two rewatchables we've ever had. I don't know. I feel like that's a huge book. I feel like that's a big beloved movie and book, yeah. Chris, I love that movie. I hear you.

I'm here for you. You're the boss bill. I'm not Bob Redford. I'm not here telling you what to do with your podcast. Luke Asa Jr. won for Best Supporting Actor, and he beat James Mason and Jack Warden, who wasn't nominated. And then the other Oscar piece was missing

one for Best Screenplay based on Material from Another Medium and beat the verdict. And this is, I think, up there for scripts, right? If you were going to be... Scripts and MasterPen. Mammitt's second screenplay. Yeah, if you're going to be like, you want to be a screen right here,

10 different scripts. This might be one of the 10. and you picked. I mean, Sophie's choice is also a pretty amazing adaptation of a really interesting book.

And so both of those losing to missing. It's kind of fascinating. I like missing. It's a pretty good movie. It's like a little bit lost to time now. Missing was the thing

when it came out. It captured a moment and stuff that was going on the world. Yeah. And then Sidney Lamet lost for the verdict to Richard Attenborough

who did Gandhi who thought Stephen Spielberg should want for E. So anyways, it was a fun year with a lot of rock, paper, scissors. Let's do Lamento.

This is a fucking Decent director. Solid. We could do Sydney Lumet Month here and we wouldn't have enough movies. Like we would run out of time before we got to the movies I'd want to do. He's probably the least

obsessed over most important American director ever. I think that's fair. You know what I mean? Like there's not a cult to him and he was such a chameleon that was consistent that, you know,

if you look at that window in the early 70s where he's making Serpico and network and Dog Day Afternoon you're like, all right, well, you're good for life. And then he just made 27 years of more pretty good to great movies. Not to mention he's at the forefront of the development of live television.

He basically, he's in the first graduating class of the actor studio. It's only like the preeminent, like writers on the art of filmmaking. Yes. His book, Making Movies, one of the great books about making movies. He has some good stuff about this movie in that book. He's... completely unfussy as a filmmaker. It's not about camera moves.

It's not about elaborate sets. He did make a lot of different kinds of movies. He made The Wiz. He made a musical. He made courtroom dramas. He made a lot of social dramas in his time. I like that he would get weird every once in a while. You mentioned power with Richard Gere. He would throw some of those in.

They didn't know totally work. He was in business. He was open to doing business. But he to me is like the... I mean, first of all, like, you know, especially with the New York movies and the urban movies that he makes, Like they are, they feel like they are taking place live in front of your eyes in the city of the

yeah, completely. And then he's basically to me, like, what if you had a game manager quarterback who twice a game through like a 42-yard outside shoulder throw? Yeah. And in this movie he does that. He's got like a couple of times where he's just like, you think I'm just staying out of Newman's way? Like, fuck you guys.

Here's this shot. And you're just like, oh my God. It's a moment when they go all around the hospital room where the camera's like on a, on some sort of like dolly track and it's moving all around. and then there's like the shot where the verdict is being read, and the camera drops down and it goes eye level with Newman. And it's like, if you just do like two of those or three of those in your movies, they're so powerful.

Scorsesia is three a scene. Lumet waits the entire thing, and he's like, this is where it would matter the most. The Newman's speech is so crazy how he films that. It's just a wide shot, so you feel like you're in the courtroom? You can see the scratch marks on the floor. Yeah. And it's just, is this what we're doing for three minutes?

Newman's given the speech of his life, and then he comes in near the end, and he just kind of comes closer, and by the end, you're like right there with Newman. But I love how simple his directing is. I think that would be my style if I was a director. Very uncomplicated, but with a couple of bang, I got you moments. No helicopter shots over the city.

Everything Danny DeVito does, I would do the opposite. But that's one of the reasons I think why he just worked nonstop. He's extremely efficient, very professional, obsessed with rehearsal, always rehearsed at least three weeks, every movie. There's a reason that he gets the best performances

in almost every movie. Newman says that. He thought the rehearsals allowed him to unlock the character. It's like a New York theater live television thing. Like when you're doing live television and people talk about this

with Lumet nonstop, so I'm completely aping what they've said. But you can't fuck up. You can't miss a line. You can't drop a line. You can't flub anything. It was live. And that's where he had worked

with Mason first. And he wasn't doing like a game game. show. He was doing like Eugene O'Neill live. Like you can't screw that up. So it's a smart strategy. Even like death trap, Christopher Reeve, once he became Superman,

you just couldn't see him as not Superman, right? That was also 1982. Yeah. He makes dead trap and it's like, Jesus, Christopher Reeve, good actor. But everyone from the Christopher Reeve era was always like, I think I was a fucking awesome actor. And he knew everybody and was friends with everybody and turned down all these roles.

He got saddled with the iconography. Absolutely killed him. He's a world-class director. I was just saying this to somebody the other day, who I still haven't seen like eight movies he made. Yeah. Like he made so many movies. He had a period from the late 60s

through the early 70s before he gets into his glory moment with network and all that. With like a bunch of films that I've just never seen and most people have not seen. And some of them haven't been seen for a reason and some of them are just kind of adversarialization. Soderberg's a little like that.

He'll just make weird movies. Work, work, work. work, work, work for 40 years. He had one note on the screenplay that I thought was interesting, where he said he didn't like the novel, but he loved the script. And he said, Mamet made this screenplay more about salvation than the case, which is why he wanted to do it. Because he was always cared, he cared way less about, he read about this,

care way less about whatever the actual plot was and more about the characters. What was the character motivation? Why did they want to do what they did? It's the best part about this movie is. there is no like, did you order the code red? I mean, like, he gets Costello to be the surprise witness and everything like that, but for the most part, the case is in front of him, and it's about whether or not this is going to be the one time

that the little guy can go up against the system and win. And it's just, that's the movie. It doesn't matter, like, there's no miracle lawyering. You know, he kind of stays somewhat more sober, but not that much. You know, there's no, like, oh, now that I've cleaned up my act, I'm a genius again. it's just the same frank that he was. Yeah.

We got to take a break, but before we do that, I just wanted to ask you guys. Who were these men? Who were these men? I wanted to be a nurse. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigue, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terse appetite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity.

Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zetbound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles.

Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop, Zepbound, and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zep bound with a sulfonelioria or insulin may cause low. low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9 or visit zepbound.lily.com. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list, not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com, and to your license plate or Vin, and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience and trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule pickup and we'll come to you with a check in hand.

Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. All right, come back. We didn't mention David Mammy yet. He was a big theater guy. It's word in the street. Yeah, yeah. Known in the theater circles. really had relatively new to writing for screenwriting and then wrote this script and there's no verdict at the end of the script.

I don't understand that. I don't understand how could it. That was his kind of his big hook. We're never going to find out. The jury's going to walk out and that's where the movie ends. Because he's like, it's not about the verdict. It's about the salvation. The guy, which is admirable, but guess what?

Can we see the verdict? Can I get Jack Wharton pointing up to the sky? I kind of need that one? Can I get Charlotte rambling with an eye mask hammered out of her mind calling him on the phone 15 times? Dave, can we have the phone ring a few times, Dave? A couple more wrinkles.

Here are my notes. How about the verdict? It's a little too subtle for a movie star movie. But they met halfway. I'm not against the leave me hanging. One of my favorite white shadows ever was when they had the special needs kid

on the team, they let them play at the end and he took a shot. We never saw it go in. It just was going toward the basket. I was like, what happened? Did it go in? You think Lumet and Newman were screening White Shadows just being like, what can we take?

I don't think you can rule it out. White Shadow is an important drama. This white shadows are great much. Back at the time. But, uh, so we have... I'm thinking about changing the end of the verdict. So we have Mamet, we have... Manette, Lumet, Sydney Lumet,

uh, we have Newman. And we have our guy, Jack Warden. Mm-hmm. You want to talk about his 1975 to 1982? The fucking heater? Yeah, let me pull it up. The heater? The heater? The Jack Ward of it was.

Turn the camera on, Kyle. We're going to talk about Jack Warden's 1975 to 1988. I did send you that note last night where I was like... This is such a cliched podcast conversation, but let's do it anyway. I don't give a fuck. Jack Wharton, 75 to 82. Well, I'll preface it by saying he's one of the 12 angry men and 12 angry men.

It's the first time he works with Lumet. And he is the guy who wants to go to the ballgame. He's like, I got tickets to the ball game. And he gives a great performance as a really familiar Brooklyn asshole. And he works, you know, pretty regularly in the... in the 50s and 60s, but he's the kind of guy. He becomes a that guy. The day he was born, he was 45 years old.

Yeah. And so when he gets to the later stages of his career, he's made. He's like, he's ready to fill every character part. He had to age and his balding long hair and his weird face that looked like he just had a shot of whiskey and you can smell the cigarettes coming out of him. He gets the good fortune of Warren Beatty picking him to be a part of two of his most iconic movies. He's in shampoo. He's hilarious in shampoo. But he's better and he's better.

Heaven can wait. And then he's in heaven can wait in a three-year period. So good at Heaven Can Wait. He's also in all the President's men as Harry in this period. He's in being there as the president. He's in used cars. Don't forget the champ. He's in the champ.

He's in the champ. He's in the Justice for us. His brother's in used cars. And he's an injustice for all. And to me, as a kid, he was in the Great Muppet Caper. And he plays the father of, or I guess like the brother of the father, literally, of Kermit and Fonzie, who are. brothers in the Great Muppet Cape are really weird, but when you're a kid, you're like,

who's that guy? And then all of a sudden you grow up and you see him in all these movies. And as a for a kid thing, he was in the Bad News Bears TV series. Yeah, that's right. But really, you could argue should have just been in the movie. I think the movie, one of my hottest movie takes ever is that that movie's better with Jack Wharton than Matho. I think it's a better movie.

Mathau is like too dark. Interesting. He's too, like, weird in that movie. In the original Bad News Bears? The original Bad News Bears, I think it's better with Jack Wharton. That's a flaming hot take. Yeah, I know. Man on Fire, best Denzel movie

and Warden over Mathau. Well, Man on Fire is the best Denzel movie. I know, but you know that you are setting that up as a hot Denzel take. You've advertised that podcast as well. Because I don't think people would say Man on Fire is their favorite Denzel movie. It's because it's not his best movie.

Yeah, I know. That's fine. You just don't like relationships with little kids. And the ability to change as human being. I'm going to let that sit there. Just let it float. Jack Wharton's awesome. He's great. He's perfect.

this movie. I don't really understand the economics of his business, but we can discuss that when we pick Nits. I had... We got some niff. There's a lot of thoughts on that. And then James Mason was the other one. God damn, he is good. And for them all, it should be disallowed. Just like the all-type. He's so... I actually think he might be the best actor. It might be the best acting performance to this movie. It might be James Mason. Because if you watch... I've seen this movie too many times.

every single thing he does in this movie is amazing. Like even the part when the judge gets mad at Newman, and they start yelling each other, and he's just standing there. Yeah, that's when he's like, he was madman for the boys downtown. Yes, he is mesmerizing. He's so good.

James Mason is so good in this movie. But he has a secret weapon. He has voice power. He has one of the greatest voices in movie history. Unbelievable. I grew up with him. Prick face, too. He does.

He does. Combo, prick face, great voice. But Canaan is like a, I think, Concannon's like kind of a decent guy in this movie and the spectrum of behavior. Like I think that he's like, he's doing his job. Now it gets tough when he starts cross-examining the nurse. Sure, but he, but like within the- Standing over is like using his physical kind of standing and just, I don't know.

Paul Newman attempts to bully someone on the stand too. I mean, to me he's just being a lawyer and being a lawyer is at times an unseemly job. Both of those guys cross the lines. Yeah. Well, I would say so. They'd both be disbarred. I can't do James Mason's voice, but the voice you're talking about

is like when he's like, you wanted to come back to the world, welcome back. You finished your marriage. You wanted to come back and practice the law. You wanted to come back to the world. Welcome back. And he gives him the drink.

The story that Bill Hader tells all the time that alighted him to a certain kind of fan is he did James. Mason on SNL at one point and people are like that's one of the weirdest polls like James Mason hasn't been in the popular culture in like 25 years I think he did him in his audition and people were just like okay there's something special here with Bill Hater you know like it's just such a very specific kind of part kind of person he did it on the show once too and I was like so delighted by it's so funny oh my god he did James

Mason and you know it's like he's also another guy who's just like riddled throughout movie history North by Northwest Lolita like he's been in so many great movies over the years. $16 million budget made $54 million bucks. What a country. Roger Ebert, our guy, four stars.

Bang. As a courtroom drama, the verdict is superior work, Ebert wrote, but the director in the star of this film, sitting in the Matt and Paul Newman, seems to be going for something more.

The verdict is more of a character study than the thriller. Then he just goes nuts about Newman for paragraphs and paragraphs. Good review. Raj, coming through again. I wonder, Was this specific to the early 80s that this movie didn't win the awards that it should have won?

Like if it's 10 years later, does it just crush? If it's five years earlier, does it... I mean, maybe there's more competition, but... I really think it's such a fluke. The five years earlier part works. When you look at it up against Gandhi and E.T., it looks like it's from another planet. Yeah.

You know? But yeah, isn't this the type of movie? Everybody both wants to see and wants to make now, when we talk about the death of movies. But that's the thing. When we talk about the death of movies, we're talking about the death of this movie. Because now if it's made,

we grab one of these. Just look at the numbers you just said. 16 to 54. That's not a margin that people are interested anymore. But now we'd grab, I don't know, it would be Daniel Kaluah. He wouldn't have a drinking problem. We would be set in some,

it wouldn't be Boston. It would be wherever is the cheapest city to make. Yeah. There would be the love interest. They'd have to end up together at the end. they wouldn't want to show the woman in the hospital bed with the tube they'd have to come up with some sort of more palatable thing

and it would be PG. I mean, honestly, I don't even think that would happen. I mean, they don't make courtroom dramas anymore because they appeal to older audiences and Hollywood doesn't make films for older audiences. This is a movie aimed at people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. It's a movie about like a person who is looking closely at the back half, if not the back third of his life

and thinking, like, how do I redeem this? How do I get something out of this? This is still happening, though, right? Sure, a lot of old people watching TV. They would just be scripted to TV now. They would just be scripted to TV now. They would make it six hours long and adding way too much stuff to it. I mean, this is what Perry Mason is essentially they're doing with the new Perry Mason,

which is pretty entertaining show. But it's like, yeah, they would just put too much crap on this. White Lotus 3. Frank, Frank goes to, uh... Frank Galvin goes to Ireland. Frank Alvin goes to Ireland. Stays at a luxury resort with his buddy. Howard Johnson's off the road.

Who did Oneonta? Loss money from the Debraan Kay case. He goes up vacation? I don't think that this movie ever wins Best Picture for what it's worth. It's a downbeat drama. These movies don't win. But Newman should have won.

Yeah, yes. Although, again, like Dustin Hoffman didn't win. That's kind of shocking. The Dustin Hoffman didn't win for Tutsi. What a battle. I remember when the Oscars managed shot? They still do. They still do in my heart.

This year, what's going to win CIR? Top Gun Maverick? No, I don't think so. No, I don't think so either. The fix is in for the Fableman's? We'll see. Big Dick Jim might get there.

It's definitely possible. I'm going to need to see Avatar before I can weigh in. Steve and Jim and Cruz in Best Picture might bring us all back. Great Oscars. No guarantee that half of those people are getting in. Don't they have to nominate Cruz for Best Actor just for the telecast and the ratings? They might have to call that one in. I'd have to have Adam Silver.

If they were capable of doing things like that, they wouldn't have run the Oscars of it. Very fair. All right, let's do most rewatch and most seen. I love the opening credits of this movie. Even though the graphics are terrible, I think that's one of the best opening credit scenes any movies had,

where it's just like, here's this fucking drunk guy playing pinball. Paul Newman, drinking and smoking and playing pinball, and the credit says... The beer. Written by David Mamet. directed by Cindy Lamett I guarantee you

if you start every single movie with that sequence put it in front of Black Adam and then let Black Adam play you know Bad weather

Why is this guy by himself What do you think you drink And what beers he are Like a schlitz You don't think he went A little like Irish On it

Like a harp Like what are they serving In that bar? It seemed lighter It seemed like a Like a bud I don't think You would do late

Yeah I just like I think That's like a master class of how to start a movie. You don't need to know anything more. First, like, seven minutes of this movie, we see that.

We see him go to two funerals and be a scumbag. And then we seem to get drunk at a bar. I love him looking at the newspaper, circling things, and he's got the shot class. That little insert is, that's such a great. That tells you everything you need to know about him, his handshake. He has to, like, sip it so that his hand doesn't spill it.

Ultimate, like, 12 seconds of, here's who this person is at the stage of his life. Yeah, because now if you did that, we'd have to have the, like, scene where Jack Warden sees him earlier. It's like, Frank, you know, you've been drinking your son. Like, he'd have to tell us what's happening. It would start with a flashback of his

kids dying or something in a car crash. And then he would be drinking and being like, I have like an original wound that I'm trying to. And then he touched the plutonium that made him a superhero lawyer. I just wrote down James Mason as the next rewatchable seat. I think I meant the first time we see James Mason when he's prepping,

when he's talking to the 20 people about he's basically laying out for these 20 white people that are a masterpiece of exposition. Yeah, like, what are we talking about here? And he's like, I will tell you this entire, like, and he just lays it out. And he just does James Mason stuff.

Well, you start doing the thing where, you know, like, if Sean or I are going on vacation and you make us cancel it, will you send flowers to our wives and be like, and a tanning bed because we're not going to the Bahamas? Friedman, you're not going to the Bahamas. I have Frank goes to see the Cardinal. Uh-huh.

How did you settle on the amount? We thought it was just. He thought it was just. How neatly, three went into this figure, $210,000. That means I would keep $70. It struck me how neatly three goes into $2.10. So good. That's the kind of shit I love in movies where it was like, oh, I didn't notice that.

I brought you these pictures because I wanted your money. Do you think he made that decision in the room? Yes. I think he makes the decision with the poll. I think the polarides is like the developing polarites are his awakening to what is at stake. Okay. I guess the question is that they had offered him 5.10. Does he just take the check?

That's an unanswerable question. Yeah, it is. I like that scene. I love the scene when he meets concanon and the judge. The judge eating during the, in chambers, is fucking amazing. That guy, Milo O'Shea. Is it Milo O'Shea? I feel like we have to have a lot of,

Long conversation about the judge. I will do it later. Concannon, just the three of those guys together. It's clear Concannon's in with the judge. They don't need to bang us over the head with it. I have the son-in-law attacks him, basically. Awesome scene. You guys, you're all the same.

The doctors at the hospital, you, it's always what I'm going to do for you. And then you screw up. And it's, uh, we did the best. that we could. I'm dreadfully sorry. And people like us live with your mistakes the rest of our lives. You guys, you guys are all the same. Does he slap hitting?

Kevin Donahy. He knocks the thing out of his hand. Yeah, he knocks the suitcase out of his own. People like us live with your mistakes for the rest of our lives. The most Boston moment of the movie, in my opinion. That guy is fucking Boston. He's coming up later.

Concanon prepares the anesthesiologist. He's a master class. and we'll slap. She'd aspirated vomitors into her mask. She threw up in a mask. Now, cut the bullshit, please. Just say it. She threw up in her mask.

She threw up in her mask. Therefore, she wasn't getting oxygen and her heart stopped. That's right. And what did your team do then? Well... You brought 30 years of medical experience to be. Isn't that what you did?

Yes. A patient riddled with complications, with questionable information on a medical charts. We did everything we could. To save her and to save her. the child. Yes. You reached down and to death.

My God, we tried to save her. You can't know. You can't know. Good. Good. Now tell us. And the guy finally gets routed. He's like, oh, yes, yes.

And he's like an acting teacher. Yeah. There's a couple of, uh, there's a couple of that guys in the movie that are like all Lumet that guys that are in like two, three, four, five. That doctor's one of them. Yeah. I don't even know what that guy's name is. Wesley Addy.

Oh, that's what is? He's in network for like one minute and he's unbelievable. Mason's bawling out in that scene though. That scene's so good. That's one of my favorite

legal scenes. Answer, the affirmative. Don't just say she threw up. What does he say aspirated food particles into her mask? He's like just said she vomited. Next one I have

is the judge destroys the expert witness and Frank flips out. Frank flipping out on the judge is it's really what you get at the movies for. Then you're saying there's no negligence based on my question. Given the limits of your question, that's correct.

The doctors were not negligent. Thank you. I'm not through questioning. Your Honor, with all due respect, if you're going to try my case for me, I wish you wouldn't lose it. With all due respect, if you're going to try my case for me, I wish you wouldn't lose it. It's so good. That's a hard question.

poor mammat line. You couldn't hack it as a lawyer. You were a bag man for the boys downtown and you still are. I know who you are. Bang it on the fucking books. Jesus. You know who could do this part right now is because he's done great. Mamet is Alec Baldwin. I feel like he would really do a version of this.

Like used to be really handsome. Would anyone get shot during the movie or no? Oh, God. That's tough. How about when he goes after? He goes, I know about you. That's when Mason's in the background just making James Mason faces. Like, oh shit.

He's like a little kid in class watching somebody else get you down. I forgot to mention the scene that you like Chris when he's talking to Charlotte Ramping about the jury. Yeah, I mean, that's their first date. Yeah.

I skipped over that, accidentally. You think that's like when you tell Phoebe about how your pod went that day and she's like, I don't give a shit. Can I just say one quick thing about that scene? Is like he's like, he's hungry? And you're like, oh, he's going to

take her nice Italian place. This is great. They just go to the booth in the bar. Yeah. It's like these two chicken figures. Two tough steaks. Yeah.

They eat it all though. Can you imagine? We get that shot of the empty plates. Concannon pays off, Laura. Oh, God. This is what I told Chris when he joined Grantland. You're not paid to do your best. You're paid to win.

Remember, Chris? The clothes you wear. The whiskey you drink. And you've been living that. truth ever since. Trying. That's another like, like, whatever it's filmmaking. This is going to be when the reveal of her, when

you're like, oh, the friend, I've seen this so many times now, when you're thinking like, oh, I hope it's not her. In the back of your head, you're like wondering, it's probably her, but you don't know for sure. Well, if in the back of your head, you're like, why is she with him? That's exactly. The thing is, like, why is this

devastatingly beautiful divorcee hanging out a dive bar with a loser ex-lawyer with no money and no prospects. Yeah. He didn't want to think about it. He couldn't accept it. Yeah. He can accept it. Frank goes to New York City to see Caitlin, I enjoy.

Can you help me? Caitlin's Caitlin's witness, what do you call that? The witness. The rebuttal witness. Rebuttal witness. Oh, my God. Her testimony is amazing.

The double take from the doctor? When he hears the name and he just stops. He stands and he won't sit. He just stands. and he keeps looking, and the cameras is holding on him. It's great. Mason Cradding the witness. You know that these men could have settled out of court.

They wanted a trial. They wanted to clear their names. And you would come here and on a slip of memory four years ago, you'd ruin their lives. They lied. They lied. They lied. When did they lie?

Do you know what a lie is? I do, yes. You swore on this form that the patient ate nine hours. That's not what I wrote. You just told me that you signed it. I, yes, I, yes, I signed it, yes. But I didn't write a nine. I wrote a one.

You didn't write a nine, you wrote a one. And how is it did you remember so clearly after four years? Because I kept a copy. I didn't write a nine. I wrote a one. Great moment. That's like a real. I thought I might need it.

Yeah. who are these men? And then Concan and just figuring out and then him finally moving away that's one of my favorite scenes. Not just in this movie like of any scene we've done the rewatched one.

And then just all the stuff that's not said in that scene because essentially the judge lets it go two minutes too long. And then Frank knows that even though it's struck from the record there's no way that jury, there's a possibility that that jury

can't go through. through it. Can't unhear it. Because they can't unhear it. It's like all I needed was for them to hear it. And the two family members are great in the background during that where they're just... Devastated. Yeah. Yeah, they're so excited and they're kind of... It's like the call went against them. They're like, what? It's past interference.

Yeah. Frank's final speech. We doubt ourselves, we doubt our beliefs. We doubt our institutions. And we doubt the law. But today you are the law. There is no justice. The rich wind, the poor are powerless.

According to Lumet in the DVD commentary, Newman did it. There was like a hair on the camera, got fucked up, and then they were like, can you run that back? And he said it was better, and that was it.

One take, Paul. It's banged it out. Rehearsal. Now your lines. How much do you rehearse in front of a mirror before every rewatchable? All the things you're going to say. There's just so strained after these

because I've been running it, you know. For weeks. Yeah. Then the verdict. I was like, Phoebe, Bill's going to bring up Tom Brady. How do I react? Run lines with me. The verdict.

Your Honor, we've agreed to hold for the plaintiff, Deborah and Kaye, and against in Catherine Laboree, Doctors, Towler, and Marks. But, Your Honor, are we limited on the size of the award? What it means, sir, are we permitted to award an amount greater than the amount the plaintiff asked for? my dad's probably favorite scene of any movie other than Jeremiah Johnson Your Honor Are we limited by the amount of the award

The best And then Jack Warden Just kind of like look it up The ultimate is Milo O'Shea The judge's reaction You are You're not bound by anything Other than your good judgment

Based on the evidence Please retire That is the best the most satisfying experience you can have in a movie. It's like when this person who in my mind is Satan, he is the most evil villain in the history of movies, for a very obvious reason. He's just like a tool in the system.

Yeah. He's like a person that ostensibly has power who is just bought and paid for and is just doing bad. It's literally just hurting people. And he can't control it anymore. Yeah, he can't stop it. And we see on his face him like, well, in this setting, I have to tell you

you can do whatever you want to do. It's just so satisfying because you hate him so much while you're watching the movie. So true. Where would you have ended this movie? Exactly where it ends. Okay.

I want to wait to talk to you guys about the phone call. Okay. Okay. What do you have for most watchable, Chris? Frank dressing down the judge in the, in quarters or whatever they do. In chambers.

I have Caitlin. fucking testimony. Also, Lindsay Krause is amazing in that scene. Married to Mavitt at the time. Yeah. Like, you could have told me that she was going to be the next Meryl Streepo. I would believe that. She, a few years later, does House of Games with him.

It's amazing in that movie as well. She's a very good actor. I just, I liked what you said and think that the opening two minutes of the movie is captivating. I get excited. Yes, we're watching the verdict. This is great. What's age the best?

any movie where somebody says the man scared of death to go to court we only have to call his bluff add that to whatever script I'm never going to write I love when the cheap the cheap loser lawyers are afraid to actually go into a courtroom

when does that not work we mentioned the wide stationary camera angles so cool in this movie Chris you want to take a shot at the Polish cinematographer's name Andre Bartowoc Bartoviac Bartoviac?

He did terms of a derroman to Prince's honor Prince of the City Lumette said him and our guy Andre studied the paintings

of Caravaggio You a big Carvagavaggio guy? I didn't really understand this at all for visual references and color schemes so there you go

mentioned the first seven minutes how they in less than seven minutes of Matt layout what a broken down drunk scumbag this guy is

in a way that I'm still not out on him completely, even though he's a skumback. I have a sort of supplementary what's age the best from that seven minutes, which is the breakfast of powdered donut and shot of whiskey. Oh my God. I had that. I had a category for that. It's inspiring. I had that for the Big Coonaburger

Best Use of Food or Drink. I also, the judge with the eggs and the chowder is his two meals. I thought pretty gross. Him sipping the soup is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. With a clam chatter. That is not the clam chatter that was probably still good.

Milo Shea, let's do it. He's great in this movie. Sure, Irish actor. Typical character actor. Played a lot of cops, played a lot of hooligans in the 50s and 60s. And he is fucking Satan in this movie. I don't know why he gets me, but he gets me. I'm like, you are giving all the O'Shea's around the world a really bad name with this performance.

It's so expertly done. like kind of cartoonish in a way. It's one of the few things in the movie that I think strains credulity where it's like, how could someone be this unfair? Because he's so unfair in the film. But it's Boston in the early 80s. Yeah, I'm so used to it and I don't even notice it anymore. It's like, yeah,

judge is a little hard. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. This has always nod at me about how unjust I feel like he is. And he's supposed to be obviously the symbol of true justice. So he just gives a great performance. When he comes to his door and asks to the extension late at night, and he's just like,

No, he just shuts the door in his face. It was like a powerful scene. You'll have my sympathy. Ebert wrote about Newman. This is the first movie in which Newman has looked a little old, a little tired. There are moments when his face sags his eyes seem terribly wary, and we can look ahead clearly to the old men who will be playing in 10 years' time. Newman always has been an interesting actor, but sometimes his resiliency,

his youthful vitality have obscured his performances. He has a tendency to always look great, and that is not always what the role calls for. I'm giving that at what stage the best. Good job by Raj. He's right. And he was also right. You could look ahead to the guys he was playing 10 years later because he played older

version of this guy. But I thought that was really smart. I also love Frank's phone bill trick. I love when movies do weird shit like this. It's like, oh yeah. He got his phone bill. So he went to the lady's phone bill, broke her in the mailbox and then figured out probably a reach, but it doesn't seem like a reach.

It seemed like just like a smart. Yeah, could have happened. Concanon's all-white crew of Iranian youth law firm when that guy reads the whole thing and he's like, he's the guy who's coming to testify and he's like, and he's black. And he's like so excited.

It's like, oh my God, bomb these guys to the sun. So this is a good what's age the best. This is like the definition of this category. Having seen this movie too many times. Charlotte Rampling's performance when we know what her motives are. Yes. The first few scenes, how she plays it,

is really interesting to rewatch. How long have we been recording for? Now we're going to talk about it? Let's talk about Rambling. Let's do it. Your dream girl. If you walk into a bar, in 1981 or whatever,

but also even today, and Charlotte Rampling was there, smoking a cigarette, drinking bushmills, and looking at a newspaper, I'd be like, am I dead? You know what I mean? Yes.

She's extremely hot. It doesn't seem real. And it has the right level of like... She'll fuck your day off. Damage. I should stay away from that, but I can't. Yeah, she's a perfect movie actress. A walking red flag.

The best part is that Newman's just like, I got this. They're out. I would just be like, Jesus Christ, what is happening right now? Like, I come into this place. Every day, it's usually four drunk guys and I'm just like, oh no, but my sister worked. But like you can walk in and Charlotte rampling is sitting there reading about the fucking Bruins?

Like what is happening? It's usually Fitsy's bringing his cousin in who has like a hook on the side of her head. There's Charlotte. She's amazing in this movie. The first time you watch it or if you haven't watched it in a really long time and you're watching this movie, it's the only thing that strains credulity is when you're just like

how is she going along with this and why is she just pro bono working for him? See, ours in love, man. I haven't seen you this in a while. I'm smitten by her, yes. Especially when you could just ask her to go get cigarettes. She usually has them. She probably has them, yeah. Yeah, she operates, is it Stardust Memories, I think,

the Woody Allen movie, that she operates in a kind of a similar role where she's this, like, really tragic, severe woman who's struggling, but who also is manipulating her partner. And, like, she's just got a knack for that kind of part. And you love it. Well, my favorite scene with her is pretty silent. I mean, she's silent for most of this movie, but the way she cases Frank's apartment

when they go up into it for the first time, and she's, like, got her eyes open while they kiss, and then she sees the picture of his ex-wife, and he's like, oh, sorry, and he, like, puts the picture down. She kind of chuckles at him. It's all right, and she just starts undoing her blast. And then the later, when he's, like, kind of losing it and talking about how he's,

he screwed it. he shouldn't be taking this case. And she like pumps him up, the pump-up speech, which is the most... But she's also like, I don't invest in failure. But that's the thing. She's like challenging his masculinity all because she's manipulating him. I mean, it's amazing. Kind of like her and Jacqueline Beset, and I don't know who Mark had corrected the other.

Whereas like this kind of exotic red flag actress who could be in movies like this, movies like The Deep, weird foreign movies that nobody. ever saw, could play like the Greek tycoon's wife, just kind of all over the map. Now I feel like she would have been one of the leads in succession or something and would have crushed it. Oh, sure. Like she would have been in like some... She'd be on succession right now and crush it.

Yeah, she would have been like, I don't know. She's still cooking. She's just... She's still out there. In Dune. Yeah. I remember, Sean, you probably know a movie this is, but like six, seven years ago, there was some independent movie where it was like kind of an erotic thriller, but not like a

you say swimming pool swimming pool yeah and she's like her own swimming pool she gets naked in it it's like what's going on this woman's in her 60s

but she was like still carrying it you see in this one I haven't Ludovine Sanya she's also in it she's also takes her clothes off very beautiful

okay it's like a psychosexual she's in a psychosexual thing see her for naughty November next year no can't believe I just

scooped up swimming pool there just thinking about that's good fantasizing about Charlotte Rampling The best part was I knew Sean would know what the movie was. It's like 2008.

It's been a while. It's been that while? Good movie. Moore would say it's the best. You guys are all the same. You don't care who you hurt. You're a bunch of whores. I love when anytime anyone says that in a movie.

That can go and, you know, 25 movies. I love how everybody says the same thing in this movie. Mammett's a big repetition guy, but so many people just say like, you don't care who you hurt. You guys are the same. A cigarette. Yeah. You got a cigarette. The Catholic Church

as a villain is a good what's age the best for a lot of reasons. A little ahead of the kernel on this one. Yeah. Yeah. 20 years ahead.

Life's too fucking short, Frank. I'm too fucking old. I think Jack Ward had said that in every movie from 19802 on by rule. He's kind of playing like a parody of a

Jack Wharton character, but I love it. Yeah. Bruce Willis is in the end of this movie? He's in the background. Do you know this, Craig? I did not.

Is the only actor? you knew in the movie, Bruce Willis. Thanks. Now, he knew Paul Newman. A Bruce Wallace film, really. Yeah, I got to say I'd seen this movie a million times. I never knew Bruce Wallace was in the audience. I watched this on Amazon, the app,

and it has like the who's in the scene at the bottom bar, and it's like Bruce Wallace, and I was like, excuse me? I was like, what the fuck? You could see him right behind Newman, like, grinning after the verdict. Bruce Willis feature. He's playing John McLean, right? John McClain is just observing this case. The only thing was, and I don't know if this is true or not,

but apparently Sinatra really wanted to be the lead in this movie and wanted to play the lead for nothing. It seems too improbable. I'm a huge fan of this story. David Brown tells it. So Sinatra says he wanted to do it, he would do it for no money because it's such a great part. But when do you think this is?

Late 70s? Late 70s, early 80s. Which he's still doing, he does a handful of movies at this time. They're really bad. He plays a cop in a couple of movies. and the head of the studio at the time is his oil billionaire. His name is case,

I think Davis is his last name. This is back when one person used to own movie studios and not giant corporations. And this guy's friends with Frank Sinatra. And David Brown and Darrell Zanick are like, Sinatra's not right. It's got to be Paul Newman.

Paul Newman is perfect. And the oil billionaire who is friends with Frank Sinatra is like, that's great. Just be careful next time you turn your car on. and he's like half kidding, but not totally kidding, because Frank wanted the part so bad that he might have blown up, the guys who produced Jaws. Another example of how cool Frank Sinatra is.

I love that story. The two movies he made around this time were the first deadly sin in 1980, which is terrible. And then he was in Cannibal Run 2 playing himself. Sanatra, what are he do in the late 70s? He did a cop drama. The name is escaping me. It says he did a TV movie called Contract.

on Cherry Street? No, that's not what I'm thinking of. Dirty Dingus McGee in 1970? Oh, yeah, that's CR's porn party, actually. Sinatra. Rough 80s for Sinatra. I guess I'm thinking of the detective, which is actually at late 60s.

Get in another, what's age of best? We did a lot of them. I have just that shot of the Polaroids developing. Yep. And also Eastern Airlines shuttles from LaGuardia to Boston. where you could just walk up and get on the plane. Oh.

I had that as what stage is the worst. Yeah, that has not aged well because it was awesome. Well, I mean, it was the best at the time. You know, it was really cool. You could just smoke a cigarette and walk on the plane. I had the Polaro as the Great Shot Gordo. It's a great call. Because they really, they work it.

They let it go and you actually just sit there and watch the Polaroid go for 25 seconds, but it's kind of he's getting... It's developing. It's supposed to say he's getting clarity. I like to have that. All right, let's take a break and then we'll do the rest. This episode is brought to you by Viori.

Look, I'm not a big, let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Viori, I got to say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably going to see me wearing some Viori. Sunday performance joggers that they have, it's made with four-way performance stretch fabric.

One of the most comfortable things you own. You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to viori.com slash Simmons, and you get 20% of your first purchase with Viori, V-U-O-R-I-D-com slash Simmons. Enjoy free shipping on all U.S. orders over $75 plus free returns. Exclusions apply.

Visit the website for full terms and conditions. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce, and some very tasty limited-time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian Soda. perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious.

Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Den of Thieves, Benny Hano Award, scene stealing location. probably the bar or the courthouse is fucking cool hospital the hospital

like the halls where he's like walking with Gruber I love that scene that's good there's some there's some cool filmic in there and the doctors

have the doctor's lounge where they change guys used to change at work a lot more didn't they when are you going to start stripping down work I'm going to start doing

they have showers here in Spotify I was wondering what that would be like yeah that's great experience you guys should hit the showers after the

salad bar but yeah yeah I don't know why. It's so fucking funny. We made the soup on Monday. I got all lathered up.

It should work. Honey, smells so fresh. Yeah, I showered at work. The Butch's girlfriend Award for Weeklink of the film. Deborah's sister is just a debacle as an actor in this movie. Roxanne Hart? Not a lot of scenes for her, but man. What's wrong with her?

Everyone else is throwing 120 miles an hour and then it's like, we found somebody from TV movie of the week in 1976 is an actual part with real actors. I don't know. Is it stipulated in your Spotify contract that you got to take one stray shot

in an actress? No, it's not. Sean, that's a terrible thing to say. I thought you were going to come after Lindsay Krause's haircut. No, that's like early 80s. I just, I thought her husband was really good. I don't know why she wasn't good as an actress.

I have some thoughts on how to. fix that. Okay. Opening graphics and the great opening credit secret, there's like this weird kind of Times Roman like I don't know what they're trying to do. It looks almost like the

writing you'd find in a hymn book in a church or something like that. You know what I'm talking about? I don't know how to describe that kind of fun. Gothic kind of fun. Wood's age the worst, Deborah and Kay's sister again. The Boston accent she tries to attempt is just an abomination.

and I blame Sidney Lumet. I think he hates Boston. He's like, I'm going to have one bad Boston accent in this. And then I'm going to shoot this movie in New York. Yeah, and then I'm going to shoot the St. Bar Cesar Bar Cesar. How does it feel that the crown prince of New York, Sydney Lumet, the ultimate New York filmmaker made the best Boston movie.

It hurts. It hurts. New York number one, baby, number one. This might be the all-time definition of a what-age-the-wurst that we've probably ever had is Frank slapping Laura in the bar. I think we've had some worse ones, but yeah. I don't know. It's a hard one.

I don't know. This one, especially for how great this movie is. I think even 40 years ago, it was pretty shocking. But even at the time, there was arguments among the people making this movie that this needed to come out. And Newman was like, it's got to stay in. The producers did not want to keep it. They thought it would turn the audience against the character, and they thought it would damage Paul Newman's public image. And they said, don't do this.

And he was like, we got to do it. It's what he would, he was all what the character would do. I think it's crucial to whatever this matters is that he finds out the second before he goes to meet her. You know, like, warden goes, he tells him outside, the way they shoot that from across the street. She's reacting to that. And so he's reacting to that,

but he's still a violent misogynist in that moment, yeah. It's so interesting because... Just throw a drink or... I don't know if it's in the novel, I assume it's not because of how much the story changed. Mamet has a pretty fraught relationship with fighting female characters and the way that men treat female characters.

I mean, he wrote plays about the very dark dynamic between men and women, especially in relationships like this with power and the imbalance and betrayal. So it's a little bit gnarly in hindsight. But if a drunk lawyer who's at the end of his rope, who was born in 1925, was betrayed in this way, it's not unrealistic to think that he would do this. Definitely not unrealistic.

It's tough to watch us. Yeah. Yeah. How do you navigate being honest about, what a character would do versus like what looks good in a movie in 2022. It's one of those things where like, I don't know, what are we even debating, you know? This guy probably would have done that. Ron Burgundy Flute Award.

I got one more, what's age the worst? What do you got? You just don't really see raw eggs and beer anymore. Yeah, that kind of went out of, Rocky started a little run there. It's also funny because like he's going to like a business meeting, but he thinks that this is like his like, his like sober version of that. Yeah. Which is like, can you imagine if I like walked into the race? or one day after having a mug of beer and a raw egg.

Like, you'd smell. Was that a hangover thing, or was that just like a breakfast? But it was also like back in a time when it was just like accepted that somebody would smell like Palmals, Bush Mills, and Miller all day long. Did either of your father's ever just have a raw egg in a glass? Not that I saw, but I wouldn't put a pass. But that was a thing so. This would, in the 2002, terrible version of the verdict, he goes to creation to get like an immunity booster.

He goes to Joe in the juice. Mooney Bucat. Lady heads out over to coffee beatings his teammate for macho latte. Pulls up the press juiceery app. Listen to arms your expert on the way into work. I do like it as like a spiritual sequel to Cool Hand Luke and eating all the eggs.

You know, like eating the raw eggs is part of his story. Ron Burgundy Flute Award. Best time for a peep break? What do you got, CR? I'm on the 10th viewing, and you know that he's a drunk asshole in the beginning. You can you can make yourself some popcorn after the title sequence, but before he starts getting into the case

when he's just like destroying his office and stuff. Like, I got it. You're drunk. Are we good with the title of this movie? I am. Great title. The verdict. Best quote, you want to be a failure to do it somewhere else. I can't invest in failure. I really enjoy.

But we mentioned all the other good quotes. Do you have any hottest takes in this movie? Can I do two hotest takes? Two quotes? Yeah. He's a good man. He's the Prince of fucking darkness. He'll have people testifying.

They saw her. water skiing and marble head last summer. Now look, Frank, don't fuck with this case! And then, um, yeah,

I said the James Mason line about you wanted to come back to the world, welcome back. You've got us take? Can just move on. I got one. What do you got?

Galvin should have lost. By legal standards and without Castell's with her testimony struck, he should have lost. Miscarriage of justice. Uh, it's a good take. According to the evidence,

it's a loss. Yeah. He struck it from the record. They were supposed to disregard that testimony. You know, the message of the movie, obviously, is that human decency should overwhelm the strictures of power, right? That, like, when you, the reason we have juries is because we appeal to the human ideal. We don't appeal to whatever is written in a book.

It would have been a tough loss. Like when the Bruins lost to the Canadians in 1979 and too many men in the ice, where the refs just didn't want us to win. Same thing with the judge in Conc Cannon. Why is that fresh in your mind? Because it was around the same time. Okay. Used to a lot of losing back then.

My hottest take, it's so hard to say. Like, this is one of those like perfectly structured, perfectly executed movies. I don't really have one. Let's go casting what ifs where Bert Lancaster was supposed to play Concanon. I think it could have worked, but it would have been very different. We lose James Mason, more importantly. Yes. But James Mason brings this.

aerudite, almost like rodent-like kind of intelligence and slitherness to the part. If it were Lancaster, he would be big and stentorian

and he would be intimidating. Mr. Rogers. He has like the cardigan on. He's just like, hello. He's professorial. He's out of Mason. Julie Christie turned down

the role of Laura. It's tough beat for you. It's me and CR's girl Charlotte Marpling, the other CR. C.R. Wow. I smell a podcast.

CR and CR. My girl Julie Christy. 500 episodes. I don't know why Julie Christie turned this down. What more do you want from a fucking part? She has like four lines in this movie. It's a fairly underdeveloped

and not very kind portrait of a woman. Yeah, but it's a great part. You're a villain. You're with Paul Newman. You're mysterious. We're trying to figure out what your motives are. I don't know. I just rewatch power, like I was saying, when we started recording, and she's in power.

And she's not very good. Julia Christie? Yeah. You think she's overrated? No, I think she's a wonderful actress, but maybe she and Sydney. Okay. Maybe they didn't have it. I don't have an overacting award for this one.

Nurse Rooney. She gets after it. Oh, okay. Yeah, when he goes and sees her and keeps trying to push the door open. The second time when he sees her, I feel like as a lot of, when she, like, tries to trick her into saying where... That's where you're a bunch of horrors. comes in. Do you recognize her

from another movie about five years earlier? Julie Bovasso? I don't know. I don't. No. She's the mom on Saturday Night Fever.

Oh, wow. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Don't you talk about Frank? Are we sure Milo O'Shea is not overacting in this movie?

He's basically acting like a Muppet on this show. You just don't like him. It's like he like stole a hot dog from you when you were 12. Fuck that guy. She was one answer for the best that guy.

the other one was Debraan Kay's brother-in-law, James, the guy was like, you guys are all the same, that guy. He is that guy, he had a crucial 902-0 role. Does Joe Seneca fit for that guy? Or is he more Dion? He could. Yeah, he could. Jack Wharton not eligible for Dion.

No. Too much screen time. James Mason not eligible, and I don't think Milo Shea's eligible either. It's Krause. It's Krause. Krause. Two scenes. I'm with that.

Knocks it out of the park. Yeah. Kraus crushes it. And you get the whole Kraus, was in slap shot. Mm-hmm. As Michael Ankin's weird

alcoholic kind of breaking up with wife and it's a totally different part. You can't play two different parts than that. Cross' career is wacky. All the President's Men's slap shot between the lines a really good journalism movie. Prince of the City, the verdict,

Krull. Those are her first six movies. Yeah. What's the Michael Trimito movie she'd made? She was getting all the President's men, too. the kidnapping movie and she's using crutches that entire film I like her in bye-bye

love as well you think Merrill Streep psyched her out they ran into each other in a bathroom in like 1981 and Merrill Streep's like I'm gonna fucking own you

she's like what that was it that she never wanted to act every time Aaron Rogers goes to Chicago yeah she's like you think you're out my corner

think again bitch I mean I'm gonna own the 80s Streep was there first you could argue Lindsay Kraus was there at the same time they're starting

and shit though so was Lindsay Kraus she beat her Slaphot in 1977. I don't like Slapshot and the Deer Hunter have the same. I'm just saying she's in the mix. When are we doing the Deer Hunter?

Oh, man. Recasting couch. Back to Debraan Kay's sister who couldn't act and had a bad Boston accent. Glenn Close. Sitting right there.

Sure. She was too busy starring in the world according to Garb and getting an Oscar nomination. Three roles or three scenes. Just get her in. Glenn, learn a Boston accent. It's a better movie.

It just is. Are you into Glenn Close? Mm-hmm. She's not my favorite big chill actress. Who is? Joe Beth Williams? Yeah, she is. That's your type. Half As Internet Research. So, Galvin's local bar is located on 7th Street.

It's the horseshoe. In New York City. And... It's the horseshoe. Do you want to tell them, or should I? I've been in there before. You've been in there? Do you know what else cinematically happened in that bar? What? Frank Pentangeli was strangled. Yes, he was. Wow.

And G2. Oh my God. Does that make it... To just jump the line here. Is it Apex Mountain for cinema bars? Oh, this is like a whole other podcast, Chris. Geez. If Frank Pentangeli dies or gets strangled in your bar

and also Frank Galvin picks up Charlotte Rambling in your bar. There's one more movie in that bar too. Yeah. Crocodile Dundee. Oh. Yeah. Well, this sounds like one of the great bars of all time. But was it like a movie bar?

Except it's pretending to be a Boston bar, which is like just class. Somehow Boston loses again in the 80s to New York, anything. God damn right. Was it like a movie bar though or was it like an active bar? It used to be called

Ph. Vazix. And I don't know when it switched to the whole show. P.H. Vazix? Where are you going? Edit the Vazix. Maybe called Ph.V. But yeah.

Terrifyingly close to HPV. Yeah. Do you think they should have allowed anything to be filmed in there after Frankie P almost gets choked to death? I just, what were the Boston guys doing that? Lomac couldn't go two hours, four hours north and go shoot this.

I told my dad last night I phacimed him. I did. I facetimed and I was like, I learned something to verdict. I just want you to hear it now. I don't want you know on the podcast that it was a New York bar. And he couldn't believe it. And then both of us were like, we have all of these bars. Like, the Boston bars are right there.

And yet the bar in this film is perfect. It is, but maybe, I don't know. It was probably like a Miles O'Shea type character was just like, ah, you want to shoot here, Sunny, you're going to have to pay the man. Instead they went down in New York. We don't want your movie making the church look bad.

Is any of the movie shot in Boston? Oh, yeah. All the exterior. All the exterior is. A lot of the exteriors are. Newman almost got hit by a light weighing several hundred pounds that felt three freed away from him

during one of the scenes. It almost died. That would have been bad. That happened. Frank used eyed drops who had the redness in his eyes caused by alcoholism, alcoholism,

according to Lumet, and said that was Newman's idea. I like that scene when he puts the eyedrops in and he's trying to wait for the elevator, and then he sees the out-of-order sign is pulled off the wall. He's like, God damn it!

And he has to go walk up the stairs. He's so mad. He has to walk upstairs. You mentioned the two cast members who were in 12 Angerman. Edward Binz and Jack Wharton. He played jurisdiction. Seven.

Apex Mountain. Newman, no. What is it, Network? It's got to be right. Dong to afternoon. Is that network? Serpico. I mean, Network is the movie for me that got me hooked on him.

But Network is a kind of an outlier in his. But when did he have the most juice? Serpica? Probably Network. Yeah, I would say Network. That's the one that has like, you know, is nominated in all of the major categories and wins and all the, you know. Jack Wharton, I would say shampoo because then that paves the way for Jack Warden era, 75 to 82. Yeah.

One of the great heirs. Like Joe Montana in the 80s. Pedro. Pedro. I don't know if you're kidding, but you're right. Jack Ward. It's the fact. Graemecky caper.

What's Mamet's Apex Mountain? Probably Glengarry. Glengarry. Lindsay Krauss? Probably this. Probably House of Games. She's a star. Fair.

How about your girl's CR? I have to admit, she's made dozens of films internationally, so I would imagine that she's had other apexes. but for me, this was a comet screaming across the side. Probably the Knight Porter is the international film that she's best known for. Didn't she just get nominated for the Andrew Hay movie like a couple years ago?

45 years. I don't know if she was nominated for that. It's a good movie though. Cinema bars. Cinema's fire is out? I mean, it doesn't have to be. You can throw it in the mix. Out in terms of being the greatest bar movie bars?

What's the name in that bar? The cinema's fire bar? Yeah. I can't remember. the movie location bars I'm trying to think about what were the great movie location bar since maybe C.R. You check your Twitter replies

maybe people can check Twitter replies on the or maybe tweet. So you want to tweet me about bars? Yeah. Okay. You're big on Twitter these days. You're big on Twitter these days. You are. You like to get in there after you see a movie and you're just like I saw a movie. Yeah. And people are like, thanks for going to see that.

It's great. It's an incredible experience I have. Oh, you guys are so cute. Boston movies Apex Mountain Now that I got Warnock elected I'm off Twitter You know

I can retire on my bots I have Goodwill Hunting for Boston movie Apex Mountain just because it also launched Damon and Affleck This movie didn't launch anything

It was just a great movie Goodwill Hunting actually like launched two careers What's that bar? What's the how do you like them apples That's not Charlie's right No there was there There was two

The one they did to have that That was in Cambridge but then the other one was a Southie bar that I had never been to it. Okay. Yeah. That they was specifically scouted by Affleck. Affleck, though, when he did the town,

he did Old Sully's in Charlestown, which I thought was just, we talked about that when we did that bar. It was just amazing. Like, we didn't, I live two blocks from Old Sully's and didn't go. It was like, you had to be from Charlestown to go there. What's the bar in the departed where the guy's like, it's a natural diuretic. Oh, yeah.

Where he gets his face smashing. You know who I am. Yeah, what's that bar? God, I can't remember. Did they shoot the Departed mostly in Toronto or New York or anything? They definitely Jerry rigged that one.

Another W for New York. I can't remember. We've done two Departed podcasts. The Goodfell? Oh, the Goodfellas bar is a great one, but that was only in one movie, though. What the fuck are we talking about it? But it has to be two movies.

Yeah. Oh, well, then it's definitely this part. It has to be a multi-movie location. So that, I don't know, if anyone can be verdict and Godfather, too. The bar, when they, with the, Christmas party in Goodfellas. That's like an all-time bar.

That's a good one too. That's an all-time bar. Trial movies Apex Mountain? I thought about this a lot. I mean... Would you say it's few good men? Well, are you talking about like this is when courtroom dramas were at their apex?

Or are you just saying this is the best to trial movie I don't know. I think did you order the code red is about his biggest tropegum. That movie, that part of the movie is the most exciting moment in courtroom drama history. It's probably 12 Angry Man if we're talking about I know but the thing about that movie

is you're never in the courtroom You're only in the jury room So it's a tricky one But that's one of the greatest movies Ever made It's hard I mean there's not Actually not as many as you would think

That are truly truly great Do you have a disco Disco Fever pinball Definitely Is that what he's playing disco fever? Yeah he's kind of sucks at pinball Really weird coincidence my stepdad had a disco fever pinball machine

in Connecticut. Same fucking one. Are you sure it wasn't from the set? Played that a lot. I don't think it was the same. How about drinking an egg, Apex Mountain? This and Rocky, yeah. What else do you have?

Guys keeping six packs of Budweiser and filing cabinets in their office. And Bushmills. Big, big look for Bushmills in this movie. Do you have a Bushmills face here? I didn't know. It was always more of a Jameson person, and then I got more into bourbon. It was a big Jacko. When we were in New York... Jacko is a big Bushmills guy.

In like the late 2000s when we were living in New York, Bushmills was like, it's time for us to be cool. Oh yeah, they did a lot of creators. And they started sponsoring like TV on the radio to be in Bushmills ads. And it was like, wow, can Bushmills get cool? And it kind of worked. I definitely ordered a Bushmills now and then in a bar. So I was like... But you were always a Jameson guy, weren't you?

I was Jameson growing up, yeah. It's a Catholic Protestantist's point. All JMO in the Fantasy family. Bushmills. Best racehorse named Frank Alvin. If there was a horse named Frank Alvin, would you be in Sierra?

Can we call the horse go get me some cigarettes? Who were these men? Pick a knits. All right, let's go. Why doesn't Frank have a Boston accent? Come on. But it's perfect that none of these guys

have Boston accents. We don't have to spend fucking two hours talking about whether they had Boston accents or not. Listen, it was the right choice and it would have been distracting if they didn't pull it off correctly but if Frank is going to have a Boston accent

Yeah, Jack Gordon's from fucking Newark Right He is the he's the all-time New York New Jersey guy So I think one Lumet doesn't care Right he's like I don't I'm not interested in Doing like the emotional typography of Boston Two

It might have been a little distracting if everyone was like Pock the car you know like it like It would have been fucking amazing though If nobody had it And then when rambling opens her mouth, she's like, hey, you're going to go pack the car? Fucking what? Take me to your fucking apartment.

You think you're better than me, Frank? How would you feel if Newman did a boss an accident and effed it? Would it totally change your relationship? I think he would have pulled it off. I don't think he would have done it unless. And maybe he tried to do it and it just didn't work. Oh, that's possible. This is a big one.

Why didn't the couple just fire Frank? He didn't tell them about the offer. they can fire their lawyer and get another one under prepared for that like I don't think they understand really what's going on right they're essentially so they think they're stuck with them because they hired them there are a lot of like aspects of the legal

parts of the case that don't really hold up though what he does there is like is like legal you're supposed to tell people that you've been offered to settle that oh yeah yeah to that same point why didn't he counter the offer it's bizarre I'll settle for 500

Well they obviously had a number He had a number in mind Because we know that he asked for a number When they set up the suit Wasn't it 600? Doesn't it 600? Doesn't it get mentioned? Yeah, it does get mentioned He writes on the paper

Yeah Why didn't they try to find Caitlin Costello sooner? That would have been like the number one thing I tried to do Because they can't get her name until No, but why is this is all I'm trying to do Why doesn't the other side go find her

And make sure she's muzzled? That's the thing I don't understand Everyone should be looking for her Well, I thought that the implication was the doctor just basically doesn't say anything about that situation. But they know there was, they say it earlier, there's one nurse that nobody can get a hold of. Oh, I thought that that was talking about Rudy. And the movie goes to pains to show you all of the kind of like detective work that the defendant is going to to make sure that they don't lose this case. And it's like, that's the single most important person.

Yeah. Pretty bad job by them. Archdiocese. L. Yeah. Why does Laura keep the concan? and checking her purse for like two days. Because she's soused on bush bushmills.

She says yes to every drink they offer her. Like I think she's... You clock that, huh? Yeah. She says every single time, like, you want another drink? You want another drink? She's like, yes, yes, yes.

She's hammered at the end of the movie. I don't know whether the implication is that maybe Laura has a drinking problem. I think Iber alludes to that. That his read on it was that Laura also had a drinking problem, but maybe that's why her marriage dissolves, whatever. Yeah. I think that's also implied heavily

in the final sequence. The check was for like 550 bucks. 650 I think. 650? That's all she got paid or was that in installments? Probably installments,

but even still, how much we're talking here? Two thousand bucks to win a, what do you think the actual, well, I'm sure you'll ask that. Why didn't Frank, why wasn't he interested in a mistrial?

He's a mistrial. The defense planted a lawyer on his team to find out everything he was doing. the definition of a mistrial. Just mistrial start over. And yet he's like, nope, got to see it through.

And that's it. Jack Wharton's like, dude, what are you doing? It's a fucking mistrial. He thinks he can win. Yeah. He never gave up hope that he's like, we can win. Now, there's a couple times where he has crisis is of faith. And that moment when he's at the newsstand, and he's like, I'm going to win this case. And you're like, he believes it.

He has to believe it because that's all he has left. He says it to everybody. He's like, we're going to win. We just need this. We're going to win. We just need that. And other nitpicks? I mean, just

the self-delusion of Frank being like oh, Charlotte Rambling, she seems like exactly like in my league, you know? I mean, it helps that it's Paul Newman, but like when it's just like, boy, she seems really interested in just hanging out in this fucking bar and getting soused and looking for apartments in her newspaper. Should we start going to bars again? Bars are coming back.

Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all blackcasts are untouchable. This is untouchable to me. But with that said, I think it would be a cool prestige TV. one-season show. I just hope nobody ever makes it. Yeah, I'd like to not mess with it. Let's not touch the verdict. Better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo,

Catherine Hahn, Steve Bouchemy, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, or Philip Baker Hall. I know what you want, but this movie... I didn't want anything. It would be better with Philip Baker Hall. I wrote down Philip as well. Born to be in this movie. Who is he?

He's the Cardinal. That's good. Yeah. That's good. That is an upgradeable position. position. Yeah. Just one actor who gets at Newman.

Probably answer to questions. Why did it take four years for this to become a lawsuit? Like she died in 1976. What was everybody doing for almost half a decade? Well, she's... I don't know. I think that the implication, right, is that the family was okay with waiting it out until he gets, like, she has to move for her lungs and, like, the guy gets a job

off her in Tucson or something like that. But it's basically, hasn't it been like 18 months and Frank hasn't called them back or something like that? Yeah. I mean, this is related to my one question, which is like, why is Mickey giving him this case? Why is Mickey giving him $70,000? Why the fuck does he care?

That's a lot of money. That brings us right to probably in answerable questions. You wouldn't do that for me? I would, but I'm not even sure they have the same relationship that you and I do. What is Mickey's business? Yeah. Why did he just throw Frank?

70 grand for no reason. Why didn't he just take the case? What's going on, Mickey? How did he have time to just work on this case? Well, Mickey's... Why is he's in Kevin Pollock? If he find Mickey, he is just playing cards at the courthouse. Yeah. It was his job? Was he successful? What did people at his practice think? When Mickey's like, hey, you remember my alcoholic friend Frank? I'm going to help him with this case. Bizarre. Was he his teacher? No, they were like buddies. Every once in a while, my dad will tell me a story about something he did for a friend or something that a friend did for him. And it'll be like, I built his fence in his backyard. I'm like, what are you talking about?

He's like, yeah, I built his fence. And I'd be like, oh, well, what do you charge a guy for that? And he's like, I figured I don't charge him. I was like, so you worked for three straight days in the heat and you built a fence for your friend. And he'll make it up to you down the road. And there's something to go back to your point about like generationally something feels different and the way that guys look and the way that they acted.

Like, I love you so much. I love you too. I've never going to. fucking build you a fence. I would never do that in a million years. That's what I'm saying. That's a great point. I offered him a ride back from the airport once and he just looked at me like I have a fucking third head. Like we don't have that

kind of... When we came up from Texas, I was getting a ride and you were like, no, I got a car. Oh. Do you understand the point I'm making? It's like sometimes in 1982 you just gave your friend $70,000 and it was just like, yeah, it's something I did for a guy. Yeah. A guy I knew when I was

in my 30s. Well, what do you think the settlement was? a million, I think. Well, I think more. I think there's a couple million. I think if they have to ask that question, yeah, we're in the four or five million. Yeah.

Three to four. Frank gets a million. Pretty nice. He's buying everybody drinks that night. Probably not that night. They try to make it seem like he's drinking coffee and that he's now a reformed alcohol. Well, that's another unanswerable question is,

does he clean it up? No way. You think he's just backing the drink? Yeah, he's not stopping. He never stops. He's maintaining the whole thing. time. It was one of the things I gave coffee for two days.

He's like, ah, that was good. All right. My favorite little bit about that is when they offer him Brandy at the, at the archdiocese, and he doesn't do it. He just sits there with his valise up against his chest. How long have you known, Chris? Since 2004? 2003.

All right, so you can answer this. Chris isn't allowed to answer. Probably an answerable questions. Is Laura the ultimate CR girl? Even before you sent the text message last night, I thought to myself, I bet Chris is really into this character So yeah I think she's up there

Is she where she in the Dana Wheeler Nicholson Hierarchy? You're actually the two sides of the spectrum Yeah Do you know what I mean? Dana Wheeler Nicholson Just a great time

Yep Peppy Surf and turf at the club Yeah a lot of spunk Charlotte Rambling Just throw your life away Storm Yeah

Just nighttime darkness sadness but hey You had a good time Yeah My only other in answer question was would every lawyer in this movie be disbarred like literally all of them? I think the answer is probably yes.

And the judge. Yeah. Everyone's disbarred. Any other in answerables? No. All right. Double feature choice for this movie I'm going to be three. Slapshot. Twelve Angry Men or the town? That's the only movies that we can pick? No, you can have other ones. I just gave you three.

Twelve Angry Men was my pick for obvious reasons. I do think that the verdict in the town is a fun night of the movies. Very much so. The only thing was Cool Hand Luke just to be like what was Newman's greatest performance and you try to figure it. And also to watch some guy be like the young, beautiful lion and then, you know. I had

Michael Clayton. Especially because of the last scene. Good one. Because it's just like the ending on the ellipsis. It's a great call. And then they're very, I'm sure this movie's an inspiration for Gilroy. Indian Redder Award for what happened the next day. I mean, Michael definitely blows this on a horse, right?

Or Galvin blows it on a horse, right? I was thinking Frank buys the bar. And we're now doing cheers. I think this is when Franks has gone. Every single guy Franks ever borrowed money for is like, by the way, the Vig's been running on that. Yeah. Remember when you bet the Pats plus four in 1980?

Do you think he reconnects with the other CR? No, and I don't really like the final scene Because I just don't think that that's what the movie's about The two of them, yeah I don't think that's what the movie's about I think she's a tool to tell the story I don't think that they're in some locked into some relationship thing That I think that's like slightly invented

And it's kind of amazing to me that the movie ends that way And you guys feel free to disagree It's kind of amazing to me that the movie ends that way And it is an all-time classic Because to me, if you end the movie On her looking at him in the distance And him walking away and then she's gone.

That's a great ending. That's the third man ending. I don't want to end it with the push-in shot and they're like, we got it. No, that's too cliche. Yeah, that's Rob Reiner's ending. I want to end it with... I just think that there's something about

the transference of despair and, like, devastation and how, like, she's now where he was at the beginning of the movie and she sold her soul and, like, he's sort of redeemed his, but it's still alone. And...

Sierra stole my point. I was gonna go artie fartier and you guys, rare English-lit situation. But I think that's the point of that last scene was that she's where he was. And I think it's really important that he's drinking the coffee and that he looks pretty good

for the first time. And he's like, all right, multiple vices on the phone over here. I'm just, I'm not going to get it. I'm just going to sit here. I'm at peace. And he doesn't answer the phone. I think your guys are right

and you're reading it right, and that's the intent. I just don't care I don't really care about her I'm not locked into her story I just think that also like the phone ringing is like an amazing

audio cue to exit the movie on you know it's like in this same way you only hear the pinball machine at the beginning of the movie no music or anything we could add Debraan's brother-in-law

be like hey Frank let's go spend our money they go to a Bruins game yeah they go to a bruise game it's a huge fight against the North Stars

What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? The pinball machine would be pretty great. You had it. You had it. But I mean that pinball. The first time in the rewatchable's history that you actually had the memory of it. That pinball machine. I just like I want that like a bite of that donut, but I want to be in 1982 when I take a bite of that donut.

I don't think they even make those donuts anymore. Really powdered mini donut. Craig, have they made, have you ever seen a donut like the donut in this movie in your entire life? Yeah, right? Isn't like the end-in-ins? Yeah. Intimins. You buy them like a Ralph's.

Okay. But is that still... Is the powder donuts still a thing? Do you guys still smoke cigarettes and eat donuts? Donuts, much like ice cream, have gone bougie. Everyone just goes to like a sidecar now to get donuts. Craig, does a man still burst into a bar and slap a woman in the face? Yeah.

In 2020. Oh, I would go with, for my memorabilia, the doctor's car. Like when he takes the doctor out and he takes an inch egg. Yeah. That's a really nice car. That doctor, what a cuck. That guy just fucking bouncing. on everybody.

Where do you go? Yeah, to the fucking Bahamas. But just like forever? They sent him away. Canaan got to him. That's the thing.

If they're spending this much money buying off people, why didn't they just offer Frank like 500 grand? That's what I'm saying. If they sent this doctor who hates them morally,

ethically, to the Bahamas and they were able to make that happen, why can't they find the nurse? It's so lame. Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. I have two.

Counter the first offer. and you're a lawyer just throwing that out there and then pay off all the witnesses got to get all of them can't pay off 80% of the witnesses It's not the most sentimental turn you've ever taken on this

You gotta go get the nurse You gotta go find her And fucking send her a check Yep What's the point? You can't pay off nine of the 10 witnesses Those guys were too busy planting stories In the Boston Globe

and the Boston Herald Right Is that really the life lesson? I don't know I didn't really have any Maybe you can do something right Which is the line of the line of it I mean the life lesson

is the monologue in the movie I was just trying to get fun. Newman won the movie. You don't want to talk it out? You want to talk about Mason? No. Rampling? Craig, what did you think?

This movie was so good, and I was mesmerized by it, to be honest. I think it's like one of the most well-acted movies I've ever seen. You know, there's the type of movie, like, I don't know, Kramer versus Kramer, where it's like two movie stars, and you know they're doing an amazing job, but you also, like, are completely aware of the fact that I'm watching Dustin Hoffman.

This movie, it feels like I'm watching true lawyers in Boston in 1992, and I'm not connected to any of these people. Even Paul Newman, for that matter. He's Frank. He is Frank. Yeah. He disappears. Yeah, like Can Cannon, it was so hyper-realistic to me.

Yeah, I don't know. This movie's just so different than anything now. It's so quiet, so simple. Yeah, the music only plays like three times in the movie. Yeah. I just can't imagine. I mean, even if you tried to retell this story today, like, the amount of, like, stimulus coming in from, like, the phones and everything.

Like, this movie is just people, like, in a room with, like, papers. talking to one other person sitting over a beer. It's like so quiet and simple. Yeah. It's like Jack Warden sleeping on the sofa and nobody can go in the bathroom yet because he just dropped the bomb like three hours earlier and still stinks.

Also, Craig just gave like this really sincere, sweet appreciation of fucking food art. Meanwhile, Jack Wharton dropped an upper decker. Well, you know what I mean. Wait, can I also say, why? The old phones ringing is the most annoying sound in the world. Yeah, it was tough. You can't, man, when it would wake you up in the middle of the night, dude, I can't even.

That's something that the future generations will not know about it. The best part also would be is like the phone to ring and then you'd go pick it up and then you'd be like, Mom! Mom, phone! Yeah. Like Will Ferrell and Wedding Crashers? Or mom picks up the phone when you're on the phone. Mom, I'm on the phone! Mom, get off!

I was alive when the transition from cord phones to wireless phones was introduced and I was like a young child. And it was like the introduction of the iPhone, you know. It was just like, this is insane. I'm in the living room. Yeah. You're just wandering around. All right. That's it for the verdict.

Produced by Craig Horlebeck. We'll see. How many this is running? I guess we only have two more in December. What are you doing? I don't know. Really? By the seat of your pants.

You want to talk it out? Figure it out. Avatar? Well, it is the 40th anniversary of Tutsi. Okay. But, you know. What? Tricky one?

No, not a tricky one. I think it's a great movie. It's a lot of the same 1982 conversation. Yeah, that's problem is we're back in 1982. I'll figure it out. Why you guys do Gandhi together?

I think that would be good. That would be great if we did four best best Oscar films in a row that nobody has watched in 40 years. Yeah, out of Africa, we should do that. That's a good one. Chargers of fire.

My wife likes that movie. Oh my God, Bill. Come on. Carrie. You know what she likes it? Because she gets to go to Africa in the movie. That is nice. It looks great.

You get to go, and it's like, on a safari with Redford and Streep. So she's like, this is great. Once again, Redford playing just completely blah human being. What is that? What do you know about that guy? Luser, as always, on this podcast, Robert Redford. Wow.

Listen, the facts are the facts. You can go read them. Yep. They are indisputable, as Smiling, Jack Ross said. Good to see you guys. Thanks, Bill. Thanks, Bill.