The Rewatchables - ‘Titanic’ 25th Anniversary With Bill Simmons and Van Lathan

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Van Lathan are the kings of the world after revisiting James Cameron’s epic hit and Best Picture Academy Award winner ‘Titanic,’ starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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with Van Latham still riding the Batman train. And you can find the rewatchables. You can find five years of movies at this point on the Spotify archives that we've done. We've done this one already. It happened early, early, early, rewatchables in 2017. I was not on it, neither is Van.

It's 25th anniversary of Titanic this year. Van and I were texting about this movie and we said, fuck it. And you know what I told, Van? I said, I always win, Van. one way or another. I always win. Titanic is next.

On December 19th, Iceberg! You can prepare you for Titanic. Please help me. I won't let go. 20th Century Fox and Paramount Pictures present Leonardo DiCaprio. We have to stay on the ship as long as possible.

Kate Winslet. You jump by, jump, right? From James Cameron. I hope you to draw your time together. Director of T2 and True Lives. This is it. God! Oh, my God.

Titanic. Rated PG-13 starts Friday, December 19th, the theaters everywhere. All right, Van is here. This year will be the 25th anniversary of Titanic much later in the year, and I'm sure there's going to be some Titanic stuff coming. It was the iconic movie of an entire generation. There's a whole generation of people that fell in love with either Leo or Kate. There is a whole generation older of that who remembers reading about this movie for months and

months and months that it was going to be a disaster, that this was going to be even worse than Waterworld. this is going to end people's careers. They had to move it. It was supposed to come out in the summer. They moved it back. Everybody was kind of waiting because nobody loves anything more in Hollywood

than an expensive disaster. But much like the Godfather, this did not become a disaster. This has become the definition of a rewatchable movie. You can jump in halfway through and it's like, oh, the boat's about to sink. Yep. Oh, okay.

I'll ride with this for an hour. Did you ever expect a disaster movie to be this rewatching? man? No, hell no. And this was, this movie was part of my, uh, part of my education and the machinations of Hollywood because like, to your point, all the buzz was bad. Like, all of it. When I say all the buzz, like all the buzz, like all the buzz, nowadays when all the buzz on a movie is bad, the movie fails. it just like the movie cannot overcome. I haven't, maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of a film that's like, oh, yo, it's going to be bad, this is going to be bad, this is going to be bad, this is going to be bad, then boom, everybody loves it.

But I remember them talking about, yo, they weren't sure that Leo was right for it. They, they, like, the movie was delayed. It ended up, I think, coming out in December. Stories from the set about how miserable the actors were. Yeah. It was unsafe. People were getting kidney infections. There was a food poisoning thing.

set. It was, yeah, it was all stuff like that. And I remember the movie came out in December. I saw it in the theaters, but not until March. That's how long Titanic was in theaters. I didn't see it until March. And it was like every week, number one movie, Titanic, Titanic, Titanic, Titanic, Titanic. And then when it came out, I remember I was in high school and some girls had said they had gone to see the movie. I'm like, I'm not

going to see a three-hour movie. And they're like, no, van. Like, you gotta see the movie. Like, seriously, you have to go see the movie. And the shit was bombed. It didn't feel like three hours. You, it was the defining love story. That and, of course, Love Jones. It was the defining love story of that time in my life, for sure.

Well, you undersold the movie being in the theater for weeks and weeks and weeks. This was the number one movie for 16 straight weeks. That's nuts. Which will never happen again, ever, ever. It will never happen again. It will never come close to happening again. Listen, when I was like a little kid, grew up hearing about Gone with the Wind, right? And Gone With the Wind was this defining movie and Oscars and kind of the most famous movie, right?

And The Godfather, even like in the 70s, it took a while for the Godfathers to have that, the Godfather that kind of tale. But in the 70s and 80s, it was like if you, your default movie for what was the biggest, most successful, most influential movie, they would say Gone with the Wind. I do feel like Titanic was like Gone with the Wind for an entire generation, this big-ass movie that made more money than any movie had ever made, that had a better backstory and the whole Hollywood piece of it was unbelievable. It had one of the great directors who ever had at his peak.

But then it gives this gift of these two actors that were already, Leo was a little bit famous at that point. He'd been in Romeo and Juliet the year before. It wasn't like people didn't know who Leo was, but people really didn't know what Kate Winslet was. Right. And coming out of this for 25 years now, these are two of the most successful actors we've had in the last 30 years.

And Leo has become the guy. I think Leo in a lot of ways has become the Nicholson for the last 25 years. Kate's one of the best actresses we've had in the last 50 years. And that was what struck me rewatching it this time was like, man, they're so young. And they have all these careers ahead of you. In the moment in 97, you're watching it going, these people are huge stars.

Leo was the biggest star in the world after this movie came out. But he was still young, and it's like, what's going to happen next? Remember, he didn't work for two years. He made the beach. The beach. That was, yeah.

It was like, what, two years later? But watching this week, when I watched it with my wife, you just seen their whole careers ahead of them as you're watching it. It's like this whole new wrinkle for it, right? Yeah. And the movie is interested in the way that, like, it gave you those two relatively fresh faces. I knew who Leo was because the basketball dyer's cousin comes before that too.

He had some good ones. Gilbert Green, this boy's life. He's making his way, right? He's like on that trajectory. And what he really needs is this big, huge movie like Titanic to put him over the top of making the guy. Then that's exactly what happens during the movie. A lot of actors. get to that point and they don't stick that role.

And they stay in career purgatory for a while and they eventually peter out. It happens all the time. But it didn't happen for Leo. But I also remember that the movie also had other things that like, I don't know if I want to say grounded you or made you feel like, all right, it's not all on these kids. Kathy Bates pops up in the movie. Oh, I know her. You know, Billy Zane had been kicking around for a little while. Oh, I know him.

You know what I mean? You were seeing places. Princess Fisher. Francis Fisher, you were seeing faces that were familiar to you and you knew that this was the guy that had brought you aliens and had brought you Terminator and Terminator 2. And so you wanted to see what was going to happen. You know that the ship, for all intents and purposes,

was in good hands. And we know the ending too, right? You're going into it. I know how they're saying, so now I'm in already. This was the point of the, this was the thing that I'd never understood about Titanic that they had to let me know. because as they were talking about Titanic,

it was Leo and Kate Winslet and stuff like that. To me, the love story aspect of it prior to the movie was getting lost in all of the hubbub about how troubled the production was. So I remember when I was get the word of mouth,

they would be like, no, no, no, it's not about the ship. It's like a love story. I'm like, oh, okay, it's a love story on the Titanic and then the ship sinks. That right there is super fascinating. And in another way, this movie is kind of the death rattle

of the monoculture because it's to me the last time I can remember being everything totally engulfed all in one thing. The song was everywhere. My heart will go on. It was all on Saturday Night Live. It was Leo, Leo, Leo. It was KKK.

It just became its own pop culture thing, even more so than a film. It became its own interview. And it's living now because who's that guy who puts the Titanic song over? like great sports moments. Right. 25 years later, still going.

Yeah, it's a huge deal, man. The Titanic piece of it, the actual disaster element. So I grew up with this in the 70s. There was this whole disaster run of movies. The airport. It was like airport, airport 2,

Airport 75. Towering Inferno was the most famous of all. China Syndrome. China Syndrome. It was the 70s. They loved this. But Towering Inferno, which is a crazy movie to rewatch because it's got like Paul Newman when he was the most famous he's ever been and it's got OJ Simpson and it's got Fred Astaire and they just like loaded it but they

they this was this whole era and then the airplane comedy movie came out making fun of all of it and then it kind of faded away and then it comes back with this with the guy who made alien aliens Terminator Terminator 2 and you're thinking like he's nice it's about the boat that hit the iceberg. Right. And it's a love story. Don't forget about Roland Emmerich, though. Because Independence Day is right before this as well.

Yeah, a podcast I go on sometimes called the Disaster Girls and they talk all about disaster movies and stuff like that. But this one is, this one is like the caviar of disaster movies. Oh, yeah. It's so well done.

Right. When you're watching, you're like, man, this is everything. Like the first, we don't see Leo and Kay for 20 plus minutes. That whole section, just kind of shouldn't work. That should be the worst part of the movie, the Bill Paxton, and he's looking for the wreckage.

And, oh, it's like, oh, Susie Amos, and she's got this old her nana's going to come and tell her about that. And that part should be terrible. And it's like riveting. It's really good. It's like, oh, man, what's this old lady know? The movie doesn't work without it.

Because, like, on my rewatch, I really understood more about how the film is even about the boat sinking. It's not even about the love. story, it's about Rose kind of coming to terms with her fate and what happened in her life. Like, she never got a chance to say goodbye. You know what I mean? Like, she never got an opportunity to say goodbye to the people.

That was the defining moment of her life. And she had to just live through it and never really come to terms with it. And, like, coming back to it is kind of the whole thing. But you're so caught up in it in the first time that you don't even fucking, no, nobody in the world thinks any part of the bill packs and stuff or any of that stuff that happens in the modern day is their favorite part of this movie. No one. Like nobody, but it still works.

You know what I mean? It's still there. It grounds the film in a way to kind of... And it leads to that great moment when we go back to the old lady with the people on the boat. And it's like about two thirds away through the movie. All of a sudden we cut out of the Titanic,

which is now sinking. And it goes back to the lady and she's telling them. And it cuts to the shot. And there's like 20 of them and they're just completely riveted. It's kind of like us, right? We're sit like that in the movie theater. It's so smart.

Everybody has the right expression on their face because it's like, oh yeah, this 88-year-old lady who like, oh, she's going to just start rambling. No, I actually have a whole story for you about this necklace. Sit down, I'm going to tell you. It's a long one. And it's believable. And it's, I just think Cameron did such a great job.

He deserved all the money and all the accolades for this, even though people turned on him because of the Oscar speech. Yeah. He crossed the line. Yeah, he did. He crossed the douche line, which is a dangerous move. But really, in a way, I'm glad he did. And the reason why I say is because, like, that's kind of, you know,

James Cameron is a dreamer. Yeah. And like he's a, he's, all of these A-type personality directors live on different planets. But he's the only one that built his own planet. Like he, like he's the only guy that was like, all right. Like he built his own planet. He really looks at things different way. The guy doesn't hardly make that many movies, right?

He really thinks the films that he makes are super important. Avatar came out 2009 or whatever it was. Highest grossing movie of all time. Normally you turn right around and make the sequel within two or three years. It's been fucking 15 some odd years, 13 years. And he is fully expecting us to go back and see another Avatar sequel. Right. As if it's 2011.

He did that with Terminator. Same thing. Six years between Terminators, yeah. The idea has to be right. He looks at these films as being very important things and very important commentaries on things. And so, guys are a little self-important. It probably helps his art. Well, I think I'm going to defend the Oscar speech for a second, even though it was super dushy in the moment.

It was one of those where you're like, no. It was the cousin of why, Mel, why? It was like, no, James, no. But, you know, he took an incredible amount of shit for two years. about Titanic. He had to read. It was too expensive. Nobody wanted to make it. Then they're making it. It's a disaster. Everybody hates the director. This isn't going to work. His career's going to go out in flames. And he's kind of like, fuck you. Yeah. So he wins. He breaks like, he ties a bunch of Oscars records. They get nominated. I think, I think they won 11. Won 11 of 14 nominations.

And then he wins and he couldn't resist. He was like, it was kind of like an athlete. It was like when an athlete wins the Super Bowl and they can't resist being like nobody believed in us so like it was like his version of that Yeah and by the way When those guys do that

That normally gets on my nerves Because you're looking at these guys They're in the Super Bowl And they're going No one thought we could get here I'm like nobody thought Yeah not one person Not one person

Nobody thought it Like all the haters nobody thought But in his situation You know had to been around to see That was in the era of, I feel like Cutthroat Island was after that. It might have been after that.

But there were a lot of movies at that time that were built up that were just fucking failing. The cable guy. You had Cutthroat Island. You have fucking, the Mel Gibson, not the Mel Gibson,

the Kevin Costa joint to mention Waterworld, which is not that bad on a rewatch. And the postman with cost man, postman too, is another one that box. He had another one, post-apocalyptic joint.

He went 0 for two in the apocalypse Kevin Costa did. But like you and you can make an argument that maybe Wyatt Earp was there as well. He had a little rough, a little rough period. But like Wild Wild West was another one late 90s, but same thing. People just got mad that it wasn't good. They were just getting, these guys were getting their asses kicked left and right. And he basically spiked the football.

But none of the talk was as putrid as it was around Titanic. I remember people being so fucking smug about how bad this movie was going to fail. they were laughing saying, oh, this is just going to be a disaster, blah, blah, blah. So I really don't blame them. I would have talked my shit, too. I can't remember that many movies in my life that it just seemed like, to borrow the metaphor, it was going to hit an iceberg. Right.

And it actually was the opposite. Because everyone says, The Godfather, there's this new TV show coming out called The Offer on Paramount about The Godfather, which basically lays out the making of the Godfather. And it was the same thing. It was this huge book that they're making a movie out of. They got this young director, all these young actors, Brando. And then at some point everybody's like, this is going to suck. And that just became the narrative.

It's also pre-internet. And the pre-internet piece is a fascinating component of this because the internet's rounding in the shape, even as this movie is being discussed, and then it comes out. And Owen Gleberman, who does a good job. He wrote in 2012, movie critic, I think for EW at the time. he wrote, where Titanic may well be unique in the history of cinema

as also arguably the most hated, beloved movie ever made. Titanic came out just as the internet was starting to rise up and merge into the ocean of our lives.

And at that point, most of the hate directed of the movie was conversational and anecdotal in spirit. It was computer viral. I remember that.

I had my old column on Digital City at that time. I remember making the, there was not only Titanic became big, but then there was the backlash to Titanic becoming so big. And then it was about, oh, this and why did they do it that way? And some people loved it.

People were going back. Remember, girls were going seven, eight times in a row. It's like, what's wrong with this? After school, Bill, Bill, after school, they were leaving from the school. I was in the 11th grade, maybe. They were leaving from school and going to see it again. Like, they made me go. Yeah.

The ladies in my English class. It became something like, and look, bro, from South Baddard's Lise. Louisiana. To make us go sit down for three hours in the movie, 15 minutes, three hours and 15 minutes where there are no black people, which is pretty good because that's one, that would just be one more thing we didn't need on our plate. You know what I mean? Like, I'm glad that nobody died. But, but, but, uh, but the movie, the movie culturally had zero connection, but everybody understands love. It's like, as cliche as that is, it's a very common language.

Well, everyone understands love and everyone understands the, what would I do if I knew I might be about to die? Or if I had a chance not to die, what would I do? How far would I go? Which is kind of the fundamental piece of this movie. It's like, how far would you go to stay alive? Right. Would you be a good person?

Would you be a bad person? Would you be somewhere in between? Would you be on the Kathy Bates boat saying, let's go back and save these people? and then you have other people like, yeah, no, fuck that. Let them all die. We're good over here. They could pull us down.

Like, what would you do? And that's the perception of the movie that changes, like, when... As you get a little older. Yeah. Yeah. And when you're a kid, you don't have any concept of your own mortality.

You're watching the movie. You're like, oh, Cal sucks. And now, when I saw him pick up the kid and use the kid to get into the boat, I thought, oh, shit. Yeah, Cal. Savvy move, Cal. You know, me?

Like, I'm like, and for him. Oh, that's something Cal would do, man. Fuck Cal. I'm like, oh, okay, Cal found a way to get into a boat because at that point, you know, you're just trying to get into a boat. And also, as many times as I've seen Titanic, I hadn't seen it in a while, right? As many times as I've seen Titanic, I don't remember being disaffected by the movie. Like, well, you know what it is?

I felt the same way because I'd never watched it start to finish like that. I'm always jumping in, right? You're always coming in or like my daughter's watching it. and it's like, oh, you're an hour in? I'd never just watched it from the beginning like that. And it's really like, you have to invest. Yeah. It's not a, I'm on my phone movie.

You know, it's just you got to get sucked in. And especially, everything's kind of going fine until, you know, they realize, uh, oh, this thing's going down in two hours. And then it's just the movie shifts in a way that I think is really unusual. It's almost like the shining is like this too, right? The shining has a certain pace. And then at some point, Jack Snacks. And then it becomes this different movie for the last 40 minutes.

And very rarely in a movie where and I say Jack is the hero, but Rose is probably the hero, even though I have Hold that. Rarely in a movie where the hero dies, where he just dies. Where like they, Jack and Titanic

represents everything that is good about humanity. Like literally. It's almost a, he does jack a coat in order to kind of like do some of this shit that he has to do or whatever to make sure he has to be in disguise for rose or whatever but he is as purely and goodly written a character as any character in a movie like that's this big he is pure goodness and he dies it's funny you say that because i was thinking when i was watching it jack's basically throwing a no hitter for things you would have to do in a movie to make you and i like him anybody right yeah he's every single thing he number one he is the least pretentious person. He's got guts. He's got brains.

He is talented. He is kind. He is uncommonly wise for a guy who's supposed to probably be about 18 or 19 years old. All of that stuff. And then he knows what to do when things are going to shit too. Knows what to do with things are going to shit. He has the right instinct. It's like, I know what to do when this boat is now 300 yards in the air.

Like, hold on. It's like, how the fuck do you know what to do? He just knows. And guess what? All of that at the end of the movie, fucking Icicle. And you got to live with it. You know what I mean?

So it's a brutal movie in the way it fucks with your emotions as well. Well, we have a lot of thoughts about Rose. In fact, Rose was the impetus for us wanting to do this podcast. It's very true. Some texting about Rose. Just before we get to that, though, Leo was basically 21, 22 range when he made this. He was 23 when it came out. Winslet was 21 as they were making it, 22, and it came out.

Leo Addo, we've talked on the rewatchables in the past. Leo was clearly going to be somebody. You watch him in this boy's life with De Niro. You watch him in Gilbert Grape, Basketball Diaries, Romo Juliet. He was on the latter to becoming a massive star, and it was a question of what movie. Nobody was surprised by the Leo thing. I didn't have a history of Winslet. But Leo did become the biggest star in the world when this movie came out.

There's no question. He was the biggest heartthrob. I guess like Harry Stiles' last five years would be a general comparison to what it was like to Leo. It's not even close. Yeah, it's just he was worldwide. Everyone's the love of them. There's a fascination with him that I don't think has happened with anyone else in the last, I don't know, 30, 35 years. Well, so this is what I'd say.

So let me not say that it's not even close with Harry Stiles because that's the old man Van talking. Of course it's close. I'd say Justin Bieber would be close. If you're just talking about overall fandom, people going like super apeshit nuts crazy. But then as Scooter said on my podcast, what time Justin went rogue and things

change. Right. Right. And things changed a little bit. That's obviously different because it's like music stuff, whatever. But in terms of being a shooting star actor phenomenon, I can't think of anyone. Like, not to this level. Because the reason why

nobody had a movie this big to catapult them into it. This was the biggest movie of all time, and this is the actor, the fresh face of the biggest movie of all time. So he obviously went to different levels than people went to. And was really smart about keeping a mystique, which I think has been one of the great things Leo has done really since the mid-90s. We know he likes his models. We know he has his crew,

his uh, Toby McGuire and Ethan Hass all those dudes. We know, we know he keeps it, keeps it low. Yeah. He's up to stuff. We see him.

He comes out occasionally for interviews. He's very careful. Doesn't say too much. Never does like the Tom Cruise. I'm overdoing it. Look at me. Look at me. Aaron Roger's stuff.

She kind of does his work. Banks his checks. We still don't know like a ton about him. I mean, what do we know about him at this? point. Even that, like, his relationship with Kate Winslet as it's evolved over the years where it seems like they have a real connection, I don't know that much about it. So he's just, he's, he's, he's figured it out really for 25 years. I'm sure, like, during your days when, when you were

covering celebrities, like, I'm sure he was a frustrated nut to crack, right? How do you get information on him? It wasn't a frustrated nut to crack. You just didn't even worry about it. Yeah. It wasn't, like, like, you got, like, uh, if you got like a, uh, if you got like a, you know, those, Like when people are on yachts, you get that long photo. The periscope photo, yeah. The periscope photo of him hanging out. And it always would be about, because Leo has this thing that he's able to do, which is anoint you to be a cool person in Hollywood.

So Jonah Hill. Like, Jonah Hill goes and he does Moneyball with Brad Pitt. Jonah Hill's an awesome guy. Not saying, not talking shit about Jonah Hill. But then you see Jonah Hill hanging out with Leonardo DiCaprio on a beat somewhere. after I guess they were making Wolf Wall Street and they got close or whatever. And now Jonah Hill is one of these guys

who's just fucking cool. You see Toby with Leo. You see all of these different people with Leo. Leo had the ability. He was such a massive star. Even not like a star, because a star is bright. Leo was like a black hole.

Like he sucks things into him and changes them. Like that's how big of a deal and how mysterious like he really is. And when you're working at a place like I work, you don't even try to get a celebrity like that because they're never going to be around. Like you can't run a celebrity website off Leonardo DiCaprio stores

because you're not going to get any. He's never messing up. Right. But Nicholson, I feel like Nicholson was like that in the 70s and 80s where he was the biggest star slash personality of all those actors and he was friends with everybody and a connector, but that was the different era.

That was the cocaine party era, the disco era. But same kind of thing. There was always a mystique with him. So when he would go to these Laker games, it was like, oh my God, Nicholson. Like it was like kind of the only time he did stuff. He didn't do interviews. Was that they're promoting stuff?

You, you, the reason why they're not that many guys who do it is because you can't pull it off. Yeah. See, if you do it that way, that means it's all about the work, right? Yeah. So if you don't have your life out there, if you're not on the cover of magazines, if you're not doing hella photo shoots, if you're not playing around even like right now on Instagram, if you're not, there are other people who have parallel. careers that are both

there's a publicity career where they turn up and say funny shit on Jay Leno or do funny little and then they also have their actual movie career right? And one supplements the other one. If you make a bomb, people still like you because you're funny on Instagram or you're funny here or you're funny there or they see you around

and you have this big personality. If you don't do that, it's only about the movies. Like it's literally just about the work. And Leonardo DiCaprio's career other than dating the models, that's the one thing that we know about him. It is literally only about the movies. It's just about the work.

We don't talk about Leo as it relates to any scandals. We don't talk about Leo as it relates to any. Like, even the women that he's connected to aren't particularly famous. I mean, there are models that are well known. They become famous after he dates them. But like the whole K. Winsley thing was fascinated because we were like, yo, they're very close. Yeah, what's going on now?

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Because he never really gives us that. Doesn't give us anything really to talk about besides, like what actually is going on on the screen. And his friends don't talk about him either. That's the other thing. His friends are super loyal. Super loyal.

And it's like they all have this little circle and it makes it same genuine. Even when he had, remember they had to join over on third, it might still be their goal. Yeah. And he was an owner. He was an owner. Every once in a while, you could go to goal and see him in there. right? And the reality was, even though that was the case, there was never one story that came out of there about Leonardo DiCaprio. It was just very interesting, at least not that I can

remember. Well, he was friends with Kevin Connolly, and they always thought entourage was based at least a little bit on Leo's story. But Leo never made an appearance on entourage. You know, and there was a hands-off thing with Leo that I think people respected how he handled his business, and they kind of left him a little alone. Also, like, you think about it. You think about it. You think about how he's a child actor who becomes the biggest star in the world. I would say Leo and LeBron have handled what happened to them at an early age, the best out of anyone ever. I would say those are the two. It's always been the most impressive thing about LeBron. He was famous when he was 15. He was like legitimately famous. 16, 17. He's on Sports Illustrated 17. And I think if the worst thing

he ever did was the decision, that's pretty good. Leo, even more famous and was able to to handle it and does good work. And I think coming out of this movie, the bet would have been, I bet his career is going to go sideways. That's more likely than him becoming the, you know, one of the best actors we have.

I would have been, he's more famous than LeBron James at the point that Titanic comes out. LeBron was more famous younger, right? Yeah. Well, I think, I think Leo after Titanic is more famous

than LeBron or any athlete could ever be. It's a different level of fame. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's totally different. Yeah. We're going to take a break. And then we're going to talk about Rose.

Let's go to this podcast. It has to be done. That's next. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com.

And to your license plate or Vin and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule pickup. And we'll come to you with a check-in. hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. All right, Van, it's time. We got to talk about Rose. This movie has existed now for almost 25 years.

I love Kate Winslet. I'm on the record as saying one of my favorite actresses. She was on the watch with Andy and Chris. I was furious. I can't believe she was on their podcast, not mine. I'm her number one normal fan. Rose sucks. Rose is a terrible character. I have so many problems with Rose. I'm going to start here.

She killed Jack. Killed him. Yeah. Switching the water with him every 10 minutes. Just let him die. And then it was shocked, but I'm going to go through it. Well, actually, before I go through it,

as you watch this movie time and time again, what is it about Rose that drives you crazy? Are there two things? Two main things. And then there's more shit that I picked up. Yeah, I have a whole bullet point list.

Yeah. But there's two main things. The one thing was something that dawned on me when I was working back in the day, I said on television to piss all the girls in the office off. So two things. Rose dies at the end of this movie, right? She passes away. We think.

Cameron said he left it open for our interpretation. Okay. The way I viewed is that she passed away. Yeah. All right. So let's just say that Rose passed away at the end of the movie. All right. So Rose passes away. And then after she passes away, she then gets transported back. Like the scene of Titanic of her kissing Jack is supposed to be like a facsimile for the afterlife, right?

She ends up in heaven with Jack. She ends up in heaven with Jack. Great. What about this other motherfucker that you spent your entire life with? And had kids with. And had kids with. The girl that Rose is talking about. Because Susie Amos, looks great at this movie. Susie Amos is Rose's granddaughter. Yeah. So there was a whole other guy that Rose ended up getting with and having a life with. Made children, may the life got different last name.

The whole shit. Yeah. She is pining for a dude. She knew for three days. 1912. Two and a half. Two and a half days. And by the way, a large portion of those days were spent in life, the last day,

in life-altering fright. Okay, not the best thing to... And she goes and spends the rest of the attorney for him. If I'm Rose's dead husband, I'm like, yo, what the fuck? Like, what's going on? Like, where... The biggest loser of this movie is in the 1500 dead in the Titanic. It's Rose's husband who devoted his whole life to just being a nice guy and having some kids are there.

And then that's who she goes to in the afterlife. Think about how many times this guys have to hear about Jack. Oh, my God. Think about the fact that they're going somewhere and they're talking. is really cold and Rose is looking away. He's like, oh. What's wrong, baby? What's wrong?

He's like, what's wrong? And she's like, it was a night just like this. Oh, I don't want to hear it. No more, Rose. I've heard of a bottle. Let's be honest. They're divorced.

In real life, they're divorced. They've got divorced. They have two kids, and then he's out, and he starts cheating on it with a waitress just to have some sort of upper hand in the whole relationship. In real life, it's probably like revolutionary road. Oh, yeah.

That's probably what it is. Secondly. And then we're going to get to your list. But these are the main two things with me. There's a lot of other stuff. That was so important what you just said. I really hope people thought about it, marinated on it.

It's such a crucial point. Second. Okay. Rose tossing the heart of the ocean in the ocean. All right. Let me tell you why I have a big problem with this. I don't know if you guys watching this, no. But I'm black.

All right. And being that I'm black, having somebody throw $500 million in the ocean having somebody just get rid of that type of situation just blows my fucking mind I can't wrap my mind around that

you don't see this big ass fucking tanker and all of these people looking for this thing your daughter is having making googly eyes at the guy it's his job to find it they came and found you you're telling your story

everybody is around this. I get it. But Cal and the Hockley's are all dead. You ain't doing it to spite them. They're gone. He killed himself. It all went bad for him. My thing is, why would you do that?

Hey, the movie would have a family. You have kids and grandkids that you can set up for 10 generations. What about poor people anywhere? What about tell your granddaughter, yo, this is what you should do. Don't give it to these guys. Because they're looking for no bullshit. Take it and go feed Harlem.

Right. Start the necklace foundation where we'll create $500 billion of college scholarships. Rose, I don't know if you know, but it's not 1914 anymore. Like, you know, there's not enough to go around. I mean, not that there was then. But what I'm saying is the fact that she does that and it's looked at as some sort of noble thing. This called an argument last night between me and Kalika. Calica was like, what are you supposed to use do?

She's supposed to go take it and make some money off of it? I'm like, yeah! Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or give it to charity or do good things with it. Anything. Or give it to a museum or whatever. Why on earth you have to be super self-centered, in my opinion, to drop that big ass diamond in the ocean?

It just makes absolutely no sense. It goes back to Rose, the human being she was. Right. Let's go the Rose checklist. You mentioned two of them, but I'll do them again as I'm doing this. Sorry. Rose checklist. Here's our evidence that Rose sucks.

she marries the worst guy ever. Like I assume Stalin was probably married at that point. I don't know if Hitler and that Eva Brown yet. But she's going to marry this guy who is the absolute horror show of all time. I don't care if your mom's... That was the mom, though. Well, okay. So you're basically being prostituted out by your mom to be with the most evil villainous person who's ever lived.

Right. And you're totally fine with that and you're excited because you get to fill your your, your bedroom on the boat with fucking Picasso drugs. Deep down, you're into it. You're trying to pretend you don't like this guy. But deep down, you kind of like the lifestyle, Rose. You do. You kind of like it.

Her mom was, the dress, the corset. You kind of fucking like it, Rose. Don't fight it. Her mom was guilt tripping the hell out of her, Bill. Her mom was the whole thing with the mom. Okay. All right.

So finally she decides, uh, I'm trapped. I'm going to go jump off the boat. you're not really. Right. Yeah, really jumping on the boat. You're kind of standing on the edge hoping somebody's going to notice. Of course, Jack does. What does Jack do?

He fucking saves her. Yeah. Right? Because he's a good guy. And then she can't even climb back on the boat because she's an idiot. Saves her again, second time. Right. Falls on her.

People show up. What does Rose do? Just kind of nothing. Nothing. Nothing. For 15 minutes. His handcuffs. Y'all, go back and watch the movie.

She does nothing. By the time Cal comes and love Joy, love joy, who's like James Bond, by the time they come, Jack is already handcuffed, she hasn't told them anything yet. She's like, oh, can I get another blanket? Yeah, I'm like, yo, like, why did she wait until Jack was already handcuffed to tell them that nothing went on? Like, they think that she got assaulted. It has no sense whatsoever. Then begrudgingly, it's like actually he was helping me. and I lost my bow.

And so finally she does the right thing. It takes 15 minutes, but a warning sign for what kind of person rose is. It has one date with Jack, right? Runs around the boat with him for a little bit. All of a sudden, he's painting her naked and they're fucking in a car. Right. She's engaged. Yeah.

She met this guy five minutes ago. Doesn't even know really anything about him. So I'm not going to judge, but it was 1912. Hold on. I got to be honest. We just got to keep it all the way real here. Yeah. You guys, Rose cheated.

Now here's the thing. Yeah, she's a cheater. So, let's be honest. I'm not judging. I don't judge. But if this were anybody else in any other situation, you guys would be saying that Rose is toxic. Rose cheated.

Now, what she could have, she could have gone back. She eventually goes back to Cal and, you know, to warn them about the boat crashing. But if not, she just runs off with Jack. Cal fucked up bad guy. But she did have a fiance. Let's keep real. Thank you.

she steals the piece of the floating boat from Jack who then tries to get on with her and it sinks and then he's like all right I'm just going to hang out here and this freeze I'm going to get hypothermia and die any concern for Jack no should we swap every 10 minutes now doesn't care then she passes out

wakes up because there's there's the rescuers Jack Jack wake up Jack's fucking dead It is minus 30. It's minus 30 in the ocean. And you've been out there for two hours. What did you think he was like treading?

Right. He's having like a saltine cracker. Okay. So then after she murders Jack, which she did, what's your name, ma'am in the boat after? My name is Rose Dawson. So now you're taking his name? Yeah.

You just killed him. Yeah. You killed him. Now you're taking his name. She has a family with someone else, raves about Jack, who she knew for 60 hours for the rest of her life on the boat

old lady lying in bed right that's like hey we're gonna make this make this little icon for you what's on the nightstand it's eight pictures of rose where's your fucking family go look at it

it's just eight Kate Winsland pictures who has let me check Vam does your nightstand have eight pictures of just van in different things yeah people you love

Yeah, right. What the fuck? It's like, oh, hey, if we're going to sleep on that boat, can you take those eight-frame pictures of me? Because I want to put those next to my bed. No picture of, she didn't have a picture of Jack, but where's the husband? Obviously, the husband hated it.

No picture of the granddaughter. The husband's got, yeah, no kids, grandkids, nothing. And then to coup de grace, she takes a kajillion dollar necklace that everyone's looking for. That could, the money could be used. All these different awesome ways throws in the ocean. For what reason? What's your reason, Rose?

You know what the reason was? You're selfish and you're a bad mother and you're a bad grandmother and you're a bad fiancé and you're a bad 60-hour girlfriend. You sucked in all the parts of your life. Craig is so upset. I'm sorry, Craig. I love this movie. Rose is awful.

Craig is so upset. I've had problems with Rose for years. I've had problems with Rose because of the cow thing. Not the cow thing. Cow was fucking terrible. Cal was the worst. Maybe they deserved each other. Maybe that was like the perfect couple.

She's the worst. He's the worst. Maybe they were meant to be. Cal was the worst. Also, I want you guys to go back and look something. Look at something. Jack had to talk Rose into being like a good person. Yeah.

Over and over again. She was snatching stuff from him. He had to get into her inner core. He changed her. But Rose was, a spoiled brat little selfish motherfucker. I'm keeping it real. Now, she got better, but I'm telling you, you guys, there's no way you can't tell me

that that guy who devoted his life to Rose doesn't feel a certain way. He's probably up in heaven feeling totally played. Getting the extra shot of Jack and Jack. He goes to heaven. He's like, where's my wife? Where's my wife? 50 years. Oh, no, she's over there, the guy she knew for 60 hours. She's over there with Jack! Yeah.

With the guy she basically, she barely knew. She has three relationships with men in this movie. One is the fiancé that she cheats on in two hours. One is the guy she just lets freeze to death. And one is her husband that she just uses and abuses for 60 years and doesn't even want to see in heaven. And then she surrounds herself with pictures of herself and then throws the necklace that could set up generations of family into the ocean. Last thing I'll say about the husband. Who do you think was taking all those pictures, Bill?

Who do you think was taking all those pictures of Rose on a horse, Rose next to a plane? Yeah. Rose next to a... Mr. Rose. Mr. Rose was taking him. You don't think that he was like, hey, you want to get a picture of us? Think about how you would feel right now.

You're going somewhere with your family. And you ask someone, hey, take a picture of me and my wife. And then your wife goes, no. Wow. Can I get a picture of me? Can you get the sunset behind me? No, I would say honestly, how it played out for Rose's husband is the worst case scenario for marriage.

I'm married, you're getting married. This is my worst case scenario. You end up like Rose's husband. You're not even in the pictures next to her fucking bed and she's about to, you know, die. You didn't make one of them. Some other guy that she knew in college

went to spring break with, a very tragic spring break. And now she's all over him. I like it. Never have. Well, James Cameron, who didn't notice any of this, but he said he did the Titanic

because he said it was like a great novel that really happened. He said, all my films are love stories. Don't necessarily 100% agree with that. But in Titanic, I finally got the balance right. It's not a disaster film. It's a love story with a fastidious overlay of real history. And a portrait of a maniacally self-absorbed woman

who just destroys every man in her path. I would include that as well. This was, for Cameron, he became the first Academy Award winner to produce, directed, written, and edited by the same person. That's nuts, bro. That's nuts. 14 Oscar nominations, which tied all about Eve for the record.

11 wins, which tied Ben Hur for the record. Best Picture, Best Director, Best Cinematography, best original dramatic score, best original song, a whole bunch of others. Also won four Grammys. Was Leo DiCaprio nominated for this movie? No. And I remember it being a big deal when it happened. It's an outrage.

It's a fucking outrage. I like I know I I remember that being of the Oscars that year people talking about the fact that the one glaring snub was that he was not nominated for an Academy Award I remember that clear as day you know who got nominated who did Kate winslet for the selfish Rose who even in the Oscars Rose is winning everyone else so here the best actor that year Jack Nicholson wins for as good as it gets Matt Damon Goodwill Hunting Dustin Hoffman Wag the Dog Robert DeVall and the Apostle I'm okay with those four Great movie Peter Fonda and Uli's Gold

I'm pretty sure we could have bumped Peter Fonda or Dustin Hoffman Dustin Hoffman probably The Peter Fonda was almost like a Yeah that was like an old guy I think Yeah wave goodbye By the way those days are over With the way the Academy is now

Never do it never happen again The old guy The old guy congratulations domination is gone But anyway, so he didn't win. Mark Wahlberg for Boogie Nights also didn't get nominated. There's a bunch of good performances from 97 that did not get nominated. We mentioned $200 billion budget, made $2.2 billion. First film to make a billion dollars.

Roger Ebert, our guy, four stars, flawlessly crafted, intelligently constructed, strongly acted, and spellbinding. Yeah. I agree with all those things. All right, we're going to take one more break and do Most Rewatchable. All right. Most Rewatchable. scene. This is weird because I wouldn't include anything from the first 21

minutes necessarily. You might say the whole thing, but I wouldn't say there's like a most rewatchable. It's interesting. But I want to get to the boat. Rose has a meltdown. Jack saves her Jack almost gets blamed. Is great. Look at me, you filth.

What do you think you were doing? Cal, stop. It was an accident. An accident? It was. Stupid. really. I was leaning over and I slipped. I was leaning far over to see the, uh, uh, uh, the, uh, the, uh, propellers. And I slipped. And I would have gone overboard, but Mr. Dawson here saved me and almost went over himself. You wanted to see this. You wanted to see the propellers. Like I said, women and machinery do not mix.

Was that the way of it? Of course. It's fun to watchy. Even from like where the NFL pregame show breaking down like tape. There's so many pieces to that scene. And it makes me matter every time that Rose lets them hanging. The dinner party, which I think is the best pre-boat sinking scene of the movie, which she gets, Leo gets the tuxedo from Kathy Bates.

So Kathy Bates positioned as you'll see this sometimes. Most famously in victory, which recovered here, the soccer movie where there was the good Nazi. Right. where the one good character who's around all of these reprehensible characters there's the one who's like

ah that person's okay so Kathy Bates is positioned as the good bad person in this unsinkable Molly Brown is their name unshakable Molly Brown and also obviously shout out to Debbie Reynolds nominated 1963 53 yeah

for portraying Molly Brown but also hitting at the movie's core that pretentiousness and excess wealth is the reason why Titanic sank. There's a hidden theme in this movie that the excesses of Titanic are why it sank, right? It's not even hidden. They talk about it, right?

And the people aboard Titanic that are, you know, regaling and all of this stuff, they represent the failing of Titanic itself. Molly Brown is Nouveau Rich. So because she's new money, she's not quite as, sort of infected by that whole thing as the rest of them are. So she's like pulling Rose back and like she relates to Jack because she sees herself and Jack. It's an overall theme in the movie that like being grounded and living life

and not being pretentious or like or super rich and snobby is the way to go. And that's kind of like what she represents as well. There's some really good class stuff in this movie and it's intentional and it's not that hard to figure out. but even like the way the boat's constructed, right? Right. The top tier of the boat is all the most, the richest people. Right.

Second tier, first tier. And then by the time you get to the bottom of the boat, it's just the people who almost seem like they're in the depths of hell, just keeping the boat going and, you know, you don't even know what's going on down there. But the goal is to get to the top part of the boat, which is kind of like real life and destroyed ways. And historically accurate, if you look at, you know,

when Titanic sank, a lot of the lifeboats went out and there were a lot of people that have been. stuff. Right. So Leo in that dinner party scene, that's Leo's, I think, best scene where he's got to, he's just not going to let everybody make him feel like he's some sort of like not, not worthy of being at the table. He brings real insight. He has a great speech, which we're going to play right now. And do you find that sort of rootless existence appealing, do you? Well, yes, ma'am, I do. I mean, I've got everything I need right here with me. Got air in my lungs and a few blank sheets of paper.

I mean, I love waking up in the morning not knowing what's going to happen or who I'm going to meet. Where I'm going to wind up. Just the other night I was sleeping under a bridge and now here I am on the grandest ship in the world having champagne with you fine people. I'll take some of that. I figure life's a gift and I don't intend on wasting it. You never know what hand you're going to get dealt next. you learn to take life as it comes at you Oh, here go count

To make each day count Well said, Jack Yeah, yeah To make me count Yeah, he does basically the whole Life's a Gift thing And it's great, and it works And he's so charming

And it's just like That's why That scene alone, Leo Should have been nominated for Best Actor Because that would have been the Oscar clip, I think. But that's, like, if you're talking about Like, what makes Leo a great actor

at that point in his career, the charm, the ability to kind of suck everybody into his prey, it's all there. Also, he looks like he is just totally unaffected. I mean, he's obviously nervous. But as soon as he gets settled in, there's this confidence. Like, if you watch this movie,

if there was one thing that you took away from Titanic when you watched the movie, one thing, there was one sentence, one message, it would be Leonardo DiCaprio as a movie star. That would be the thing that you would pull away from the film. There was one thing. And that scene kind of, like,

that scene sort of illustrates that. Like, you see him, he is, like, totally confident. Even to the point to where he gets in and starts doing his shit, and he tosses cow to match. He's like, hey, here you go, man. Here, take these. You know what I mean? Now he's actually not in their element anymore.

He's brought them into his. And it's like, it's hard to do. Hard to do in that situation. He does it without any pretension at all. It's such a good point about the, like, true movie star. It's something William Goldman always used to write about. Because when I was growing up as a kid, we had like Newman and Redford. Yeah, for sure.

These people that, you know, just pulsated out of the screen. There's different types, right? Like, De Niro and Puccino are obviously movie stars. But the true charisma movie star is like its own version of a movie star. And Leo, I think, last 25 years out of anybody. I think it's something, you know, it's been able to explain why Cruz is able to always come back, right? He just seems like a movie star.

You watch him, you see him in Rain Man or pick a cruise movie. Cocktails the ultimate charisma movie. Yeah. And Leo's like that. The beach, which I still don't know what the plot of the beach was, it's just Leo being a movie star in an island for two hours and it works. But I think he really tried to consciously uncouple himself from that in the 2000s with some of the movies he picked, right?

Where he didn't want just the charisma parts. He wanted to do weird shit. He wanted to go on Shutter Island and, you know, leading to the Revenant. But movies that where the charisma-less performances seemed like he became interested in it. So there was one, and it was a movie I was obsessed with. I don't know if you guys have done it yet.

I've seen this more than I've seen any other Spilberg movie, and it's weird. Aviator. Catch me if you can. Catch me if you can. Scorsese did the Aviator. Yeah, my bet. Yeah.

Like, Catch me if you can. Catch me if you can is my favorite Leonardo DiCaprio movie. and it's because I know that everybody's going to be weird about that there's so many great movies but catch me if you can it's my favorite Leonardo DiCaprio movie

because like it's literally him it's not about him being a movie star at all it's him is him being a charlatan a con man he's a bullshit artist

he's a bullshit artist the whole fucking time just bullshitting people bullshitting people and he plays it so perfectly I absolutely love that because I'm Almost that antithesis.

We'll add it to the list. Sure. More rewatchable scenes. I just lumped together. I don't know what you want to pick, but Jack and Rose in the front of the ship when he's holding her. Like that became one of the most famous scenes. Jack Drawing Rose, which for a lot of people, that was, by the way, the first scene

they filmed with Leo and Kate was the new drawing scene. But for a lot of kids, first time they saw a topless lady, which we'll get to later, the importance of that. Wasn't expected to see it. I mean, I went there and I was like, oh, whoa. Rose. Rose, okay? I feel you. We get Jack and Rose running from the fake cop,

and then we got Jack and Rose in the car leading to the hand on the windshield, which I want to break down later. The iceberg scene is great. An iceberg, sir. I put a harder starboard and ran the engines full of stern, but it was too close. I tried to port around it, but she hid. Close the watertight doors. The doors are closer.

I forgot how great that was, just like, uh-oh. Oh, no. Let's beep the thing. Oh, we got to turn it. And then you think they're going to make it? No, they're not going to make it. And then watching the iceberg go by the boat. There's a lot of like, how the fuck did they do that moments in this movie?

I think that's one of them. Watching the boat go by the iceberg. Like, damn, because now they would just CGI that. I'm not sure they had that technology in 97, right? Well, there's some CGI in this movie. Like, there's, I think some of the stuff that you're talking about is practical on the soundstage. When you talk about the iceberg and stuff. but like their obvious CGI parts when

like Jack and Rose when they pull away from them on the day that's that's CG that's CGI they obviously CGI at their face when they were running through that hallway but some of the stuff I even looked at some of the flooding and stuff like yo this must be a brutal shoot like it had to have been like a There's a live in stories about that

yeah bad of us Rose breaks away to save Jack the first time that's where we have that's when Billy Zane goes full wrestling hill It's a pity. I didn't keep that drawing. It would have been worth a lot more in the morning. Yeah.

And then she goes, I'd rather be his whore than your wife and spits right in his face. Well, I tell you that line, that line paralyzed the theater. Yeah, yeah. I'm in Cortana Mall, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Everybody's like, oh, shit. Like, paralyzed the theater. Well, there's stuff. This is half-ass internet research, but there's, some people think the spit scene was not,

was improvised and not planned. And she just hawked a luggy right in Billy Zane's face. And he didn't know that was coming. So who does. Pay me 50,000 extra for that. Spit my face. Bill Romanovsky. Big Lugie, too.

The swinging act scene is really good. When she does the two practice things and they don't come close. It's just good. It's like a really just smart two-minute scene. The boat sinks, breaks in half, and tips over. this is now a horror movie. Right. Jack somehow knows what to do.

We have Captain Smith's final scene, which they used 120 tons of water to pour in and the actor was terrified. And everything about it is absolutely mesmerizing. And if it's on TV and the boat's about to sink I'm watching. Yeah. And I felt the worst for him. The captain.

He went down with his ship. He just seemed shell-shocked. He knew everything to do. they just gave him, he just got a whack rig, man. Looked a little like Steve Nash before the James Harden trade. Jack dies, Rose does the whistle. That part's good. Has to hop in the water and swim.

Come up out! And then the very, very ending is really good. The Rose goes to heaven, whatever you think happens in that. And the way they film it, we're back on the boat. The boat's back. I know. Everything's good again. Oh, let's go up the stairs. Oh, there's Leo. This is great. I'll be honest with you. I had some phone with Rose earlier. That scene is absolutely breathtaking. It's great. Great ending. Because it's like it really, like it gives you all the feels. Everybody's, hey, we've all been waiting for you. It's really like a part of your life stopped right here. So we're all waiting for you here. We're here. Jack's up here too. Look at him. He's okay.

my most rewatchable scene is the dinner party for the non-boat going down and then basically the boat sinking, tipping over and everybody, like that whole thing. Those would be my two. What do you have? So two other re-watchable things I like. One is I like when you say Cal goes full heel

and in the movie becomes a horror movie, the movie actually becomes a horror movie when Cal grabs a gun and tries to kill them. Right, right. I forgot by that. Yeah. Like, he actually went totally crazy and grabbed the gun.

His whole thing was an OJ thing because he was abusive at first. And then he tries to kill both of them, right? Basically, OJ Simpson turned is what Cal had, right? Yeah. And then also, I like the party scene, and I'll tell you why. The party scene is important because

we already knew that Jack could survive in Rose's world. But we didn't really know if Rose could survive in Jacks. And when they go down to the party and she's cool and she's drinking, she's hanging out, She stands on her toes. You think you're big tough men? Let's see you do this.

Hold this for me, Jack. Hold it up. That's when you really know that these two people are meant to be together because that's when they show that they can be mirrors of one another. But the most rewatchable scene in the movie is I'm the king of the world. It's like, well, not the king of the world because he says that before. Whatever they're on the boat. With the boat, the two of them, yeah.

That's the most rewatchable scene. What's age the best? I mean, the number one thing for what's age the best is Leo and Kate. in just our history with them now. So that has to be the answer. And James Cameron. Yeah, James Cameron. The score is fantastic.

And it's a lot of variations of the Celine Dionne song, but just the little twangs and it just keeps going. And it's just, I mean, everything about this movie. It's like a first, it's like going to a dinner where every single piece of it is just first class. Everything's been thought of. They thought of even everything down to the tablecloth, how the waiters come over. It's just like an exquisite movie. apparently Cameron when the ship hit the iceberg

was fascinated by what I mentioned earlier about how will people act if they know they're either definitely going to die or probably going to die and actually sketched out a bunch of different things that he thought would happen and then that played out with some of the things they did including the band

which I think is another what's aged the best the band continue to play shout out to the band great job by them Proves to the end. And there's one scene that I that I always forget about, but this just shows you the

sort of brutal, emotional toll that the movie takes on you. You know the scene where the lady, who I think is the same lady who plays what's his name's mom in Terminator 2. Yeah, she is. Yeah, is like reading to her kids. Yeah.

They're not even trying to escape. She knows there's no boats. It's over for them. They're going to die. and she's just trying to put them to sleep and keep them just my God, man. Yeah. The Celine Dion song,

I think has aged the best in terms of one of the most identifiable songs attached to a movie we've ever had. Yeah. I don't think there's any question. Kate took an entire generation of boys' Topless Lady Virginity. Yeah, for sure.

Which I wanted to bring up because I wanted to know who took your movie Topless Lady virginity and I'm going to tell you who took mine. Movie Topless Lady Virginity was taken in watching trading places. Oh, Jamie Lee Curtis. No.

What do you mean? It's before that. Oh, the first lady, one of the dancer ladies. Oh, yeah. Okay. It's before that. But he's having the party. I got you. He's having the party. Do you want to pump? Right. Let me show you how. And I remember

I see that. My dad went, eye boy. because I was like, whoa. I was like, I was watching a movie. My dad was like, all right, boy. Yeah, here we go. I was like, yeah. I was like, oh, my God.

But that was the one. And then later on, Jamie Lee Curtis came in. Yeah. It was a double whammy. I changed my life. I don't want to get into that whole thing. Mine was slap shot. Hand-R-Han's wife lying next to Paul Newman.

It was like, right. I thought this was a hockey movie. What's happening? That'd be a great podcast of just, who took your eyesight virginity with different body parts? Because you can have men and women. I'm sure there's a whole alternate podcast. The second rose breakaway off the boat

when Billy Zane does the Iowa's windjack one way or another. Just a great, great evil guy line. I don't know if you get better than that. We mentioned the class metaphor of the boat. I wrote, so Mr. Andrews is the guy who built the boat. Yes. Captain Smith is the captain who goes down with the boat. I wrote that Mr. Andrews is like Rob Polenka realizing the Westbrook trade didn't work.

And Captain Smith is like Frank Vogel. Right. Or he's just like, all right. All right. I'm just, I'm going to go back into my cabin and just wait for the water to wash me away to see. Nothing I can do. Carmelo, sure. Let's run another pick and roll with you.

That's fine. When's the water going to hit me? Any other what stage the best for you? A couple of things Well, to me This is like a Just Bill Paxon. I love Bill Paxon, man

Me too. He should be it. Yeah, he should have been in there. Yeah, I'll rest in peace. Also, he's dead now. So it's even like better to see him in this movie. Are there? Bill Paxon.

Yeah, I love Bill Paxon. Rest of peace, to Bill Paxon, man. He was like, I always like seeing him. And you know what I thought age the best? I now watch all of these shows on the history channel.

that are about what the people on Bill Paxon's boat are doing. So Titanic spin-off content. Titanic spinoff content. Like, we're taking computers and going through old ships and trying to figure it out. Like, they're trying to, like, they're doing what Bill Paxon's crew is doing. And, like, those are now shows that you watch on TV. Like, we're searching for Noah's Ark or we're doing all of this different stuff.

And I just thought, watch this shit all the time. Another What's Age the Best that hasn't manifested in Sophia was our video that we did about Rose on the YouTube channel. I can't wait for that to age fantastically. We need big Rachel's take on Rose. You got to bring that

up to it in higher learning. I'll be honest with you. I can't guarantee that that Rachel has seen Titanic. Is that bad? That's, we're moving to What's Age the worst. That's the first What's Age the worst. If Rachel Lindsay has not seen Titanic

I can't guarantee that Rachel has seen Titanic. I'm confident that she has, but there are some movies out there that Rachel just, she'll tell you. She's like, that's not a cheat. I can't guarantee she's seen Titanic. Morewood's age the worst.

This movie's three hours and 15 minutes. It's like a gulp. When you see it, when you're clicking on Amazon, it's like, oh, oh, okay. But then you got to talk. Danny Nucci is the Italian guy Fabrizio.

Yeah. Not positive about his accent. it's a little it's not as bad as Jared Leto in the Gucci movie but right Billy Zane

yeah come on man of course do we even need to talk about Billy Zane in this movie or can we just keep moving on obviously everything aged fucking terribly like it was

it all of it is the worst bastard son of a bitch abusive but what about the actual performance because it's a little It's a little S&L sketchish.

It's a little Phil Hartman playing that guy or whoever would be now. It's a little, it's a little S&E. A little bit. Just a whiff of Sinelli. Bill, I'll tell you something about, like, Billy Zane, this is close to my heart. There's nothing that Billy Zane has ever done on film that I haven't been a gigantic fan of.

Dead calm? Tells with the Crip Demon Knight. He hams it up. He's wacky. The Phantom, he's a wacky bastard. And he was a little bit over the top in this movie sometimes, but I like Billy, man.

I'd be honest with you. Okay. I thought he dialed it up a little too much. We mentioned Cameron King of the World. Robert Altman gave an interview about one of the great directors. He said, Titanic, I thought, was the most dreadful piece of work

I've ever seen in my entire life. Yo! You, Robert, settled. down. God, boom! Yeah, settle down, Robert.

William Goldman, the icon, wrote about the Billy Zane part. He said, maybe the most amazing thing about this amazing movie is the Billy Zane part. I cannot think of another movie

of this quality that has anything this awful near the core. Everything about the role, the writing of it, the directive of it, the conception of it would have been unacceptable

in an 1890s melodrama. And then he talks about, He talks about the finger painting scene again. Oh, God, not those awful finger paintings. And where Billy goes, something Picasso, he won't amount to anything. He won't trust me. And Kate says, ignores him because put the digaz in the bedroom. Goldman wrote, can you come up with another single scene with that many howlers?

I can't. Not since the days of Joan Crawford. So ever since I read that, every time that scenes out, I'm laughing about how bad it is, it's bad. It's a once-age-the-worse. Where they're just like, hey, we need three minutes here to show that these. people are duchy rich people. And that is the one thing about the movie that the movie

does not at all deal in any subtlety. The the boat has to the boat has to sink, right? Yeah. The boat has to sink. That's not subtle.

Hit you over the head with that. The characters are exact same way. And when he when he's like literally Cal is wrong about everything. Yeah. Like everything. Even giving the guy money to get off the boat. Yeah.

Money back at him. I should have Witsage the best. I enjoyed that. Yeah, Cal is wrong about everything. Any other What's Age are worse for you? Not really. Okay. Casting what ifs? Johnny Depp said a couple years ago to Howard Stern that he turned down the role of Jack

because he simply didn't like the script. He said he labored to get through it. Who knows? James Cameron, it seems like he wanted Jared Leto to play Jack or at least like he was the favorite, but Jared Letto would have an audition. supposedly wanted Claire Daines to play Rose, who knows.

Auditioned Jeremy Sisto multiple times. Like that guy. Damn, I love Sisto. Sisto never found the right part. Cistow never got the right thing. I always was in on him. He was in a good kidnap show once on NBC. Yeah, Sisto.

See, I hate hearing shit like that. I've always liked to. We like you, Cistow. Billy Crudup was considered strongly, but he couldn't get out of without limits. and Steve Reeve-Bort-Tane movie? Yeah, good one. Yeah, I like that.

So then apparently Leo crushed it. And then when Winslet screen tested with him, she whispered a camera and he's great, even if you don't pick me, pick him. She had to really lobby for it. There's a lot of stuff on the internet about her sending camera notes, all kinds of things. She really wanted the part. There was, I couldn't even tell from the research who was actually involved, but it was like

every, it was Gwyneth Paltrow, Winona Ryder. I don't know how close. Gwyneth Paltrow, I think made sense and would have been a decent rose. I think she would have done a good job.

I think it's a slightly different movie. But I think she would have been good. I still think Winslow was the best one. Too refined. There's something too regal about Gwyneth Paltrow, in my opinion. She's like,

you know, like a swan. Like you needed somebody who could be like a, like, drink down to the bottom. Yeah, with the boat guys. Yeah,

that makes sense. Because she basically plays this person in talented Mr. Ripley, right? She's March. Exactly. Same kind of character. But with a totally different sort of, yeah, you know what I mean? The Billy Zane part was offered to Matthew McConae who turned it down. Yeah.

I don't see how that that would work. Yeah, no way, yeah. That would have been a fucking horrible thing for him to do at that point in his career. He was just becoming the guy that everybody loved. Cameron, there's stuff that he was also offered Jack, but I don't think that's true. Cameron wanted Enya to do the music for the movie and ended up settling on the Celine Dion. Then this one blew my mind.

Robert De Niro was supposed to be Captain Smith offered the role he had to turn it down because he had a gastrointestinal infection at the time. If you look at De Niro's IMDB, he's making like three, four movies a year during the stretch. He was definitely in his, how much? Right, right, right, right. Instead of a check, can you just give me all cash?

He's just grabbing checks. So he easily could have been the captain, which I think would have been a fun ring. So there you go. Best that guy, okay, the Joey Pants Award. So the guy, the James Bond, bad guy that works for Billy Zane. Oh, yeah. What is he from?

I recognize him. He's one of those guys. His name's David Warner. He's been in a million things. So he's a nominee. The other one who I think should be the winner, and you called it out earlier, the mom, who is the evil lady and Terminator 2, or not evil, but the Terminator took over and she stabbed her.

That lady, because you see her and you're like, Terminator 2 lady. and I have no idea what her name is. So I think she's the winner. Terminator 2 lady, that she was also in, remember we did lethal weapon two. She's in that one. She was just popping up,

popping up around that top. She's got like a dangerous face. There's something like you don't want to, she has like a look to her that you could see her going dark. Vincent Hanna, give me all you got a word for overacting. I mean, basically most of the Billy Zane scenes are dialed up.

It has to be in there. Dian Wader's a word. I'll give you two choices. Kathy Bates, who I think might have been in this too much. or the band. Oh, the band I didn't think of as a... I had this, I had Kathy Bates all day for this.

So if Kathy Bates isn't eligible, it's the band. It's the band. The band crushes that scene. Everyone says threes. It's great. Right look on their face. Recasting couch. I'm just going to throw this at you.

I know Billy Zane's your guy. Uh-huh. What if I give you Matt Damon, 1997 Matt Damon in that part? And it's school ties Matt Damon. I was just about to say that's the only reason why. It's school ties Matt Damon in that part. Okay, so school ties Matt Damon, all-time bastard, top five horrible, son of a bitch, right? All time.

Let me tell you, I think that school ties Matt, the reason why I think Billy Zane works is because he almost looks like a dark, evil version. School Tides Matt Damon is a little too close to Leo. Like they they they they they they they're leo's better looking but like they look kind of the same charisma yeah yeah like Calhawkly looks like a East Coast shithead tall dark haired like he looks like he was on the fucking polo team and all of that stuff so I don't think that works as well but you know who would work who been so I had him next yeah it was going to give you Affleck and I was going to give you Brendan Frazier. Oh, Brendan Fraser, my nice guy, though. Very nice guy. I don't know if he can play evil, but like, um, young Affleck, I think could have worked too.

Ben works perfectly. He's tall. There would have been a size difference with him and Leo. Yeah. Uh-huh. Halfass internet research. Movie versus real life. Jack and Rose, fictional. Supporting characters, mostly accurate. The Titanic footage, that's real. Cameron shot, he did,

went down 12 times with the crew. shot the footage, became obsessed with it. They didn't know until after the movie was made that there was a Jay Dawson gravestone. I saw this. Yeah. Dawson was a made-up name and there was actually a guy who died in the boat named Dawson.

Conflicting reports with Captain Smith whether he died with the boat or froze to death in the water. Nobody knows for sure. They didn't really have Adrian Wojurowski back then breaking days. Captain Smith now dead in the water. The third class passage being barricaded against their will below the deck so they couldn't get to lightboats.

There's basically no evidence to support this. It might have been a movie thing. Near the end, the band played rag tag music, not the poignant music. This is true. We are on the boat for two hours and 40 minutes in this movie, which is the exact amount of time from when it hit the iceberg to when it sank, which Cameron did intentionally because he's a fucking lunatic. 240 each way.

Intentional. One crucial fact he chose to admit from the film. The SS Californian was very close to the Titanic, the Nate had sank, but it turned its radio off from the night did not hear the SOS calls. They should have that in there. It seems like it.

It's three hours and 15 minutes. Pretty sure we could have used 20 seconds of the other boat that you could kind of see. So Cameron did quote. Damn, that fucking sucks. Yeah, Cameron did 12 dives. He somehow spent more time with the ship than its living passengers. The stairway water scene, they had one chance to film it when all the water comes in and hits the...

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. They had one chance. If they fucked it up, that was it. They would have to cut it. Leo couldn't... is so bad at drawing that they had to get him a stunt artist who was James Cameron. The film ran so long in movie theaters that Paramount Pictures had to send replacement reels to the movie theaters

because they were getting worn out from being run. Nobody in the crew like James Cameron, which is a running thing with him, but they said that he had an evil alter ego

and they nicknamed to Midge, which was Jim backward and made Midge T-shirts. The boat cost $150 million. $130-day shoot? The boat? $150 million.

138-day shoot. By the $150 million includes the water tank, The water tank, all of it. All that stuff. All right. 138 day shoot turned in 160. Cameron's code name for the movie was Planet Ice.

Winslet didn't wear a wetsuit. Now, in some of the research, she didn't want to. Other research, they didn't want her to have it because of what she was wearing. But she got pneumonia and a kidney infection. Almost quit the movie. A lot of people got sick from this. Do you guys have any idea what a 160-day shoot is? a hundred and sixty days that's longer than a football season that's a hundred and sixty days like

i know that they don't have to all be there all the time but somebody does like that's nuts everybody all the research is everybody was miserable even leo who seems like the happiest guy ever even he was miserable um 150 50 actors played the ship's passenger and crew here's what a lunatic Cameron was. He met all of the extras and gave them backstories for their characters. Names, where they were from, each person went through, met them, walked them through it. And then the $2.2 million necklace was auctioned off to benefit Princess Diana's charity after she died. What $2.2 million necklace? The actual necklace used in this movie, which was $2.2 million. It was auctioned off. Wait, the necklace was real? The necklace was real.

Oh, wow. Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah. All right. One more break, and then we'll finish. Okay, Apex Mountain. I think it has to be yes for Leo.

Really? He's the biggest star in the world after this movie. I don't see how this isn't... You could argue the other choice would be 06, where he's Blood Diamond and the departed in the same year and kind of becomes the guy officially. But, man, did he ever have more juice than he had after? Titanic when he becomes the biggest star in the world?

Like what movie is he not making? You know what the only problem with making this is his apex mountain? I don't think that when you say Leonardo DiCaprio right now that people go to God from Titanic. Look how amazing that is. We thought that's who he was going to be.

Yeah. The movie was so big, it felt like it was going to swallow him up. I would just have a, if you're saying Apex Mountain, that means. So give me a better apex mountain. Probably to depart it. So that was, we said in O'Say. that's the other candidate. Those two move Blood Diamond

departed at the same time. Probably did. I would probably say to depart it. I would probably say to departing. Winslet, probably not. I feel like mid-2000s when she has that run with.

She was popping with, she became like, she's becoming the new Merrill Street at some point there in the mid-2000s. Does she do the reader? Wins at Oscar in 2008. Yeah, the reader.

She's in a whole bunch of good ones. James Cameron has to be yes. Yeah, although he did beat this. I get it, but this is, you're not like, Critical success, financial success. Yeah. The movies becomes gone with the win.

Right. You're not the top of that. Billy Zane, yes. Character's name Fabrizio. I'm going to give you this, or I'm going to give you Godfather 1, the guy who blew up Apollonius car and left Michael Coralinoa winnow.

I'm going with that guy. That guy's probably... We're famous for Britio. Right. Expensive bad buzz movies. I think this beats the Godfather. It would have to, and it hasn't been done since.

that I could remember, I think about movies. Not like this. Not like this, yeah. Heroes from Wisconsin? Give me another one. I don't know. I go with Jack. Icebergs, yes.

Picasso, probably not. Disaster movies, yes. Disaster movies for sure. There's been some great disaster movies, but this is the best one of them on. Yeah. Picky Knits. We already talked about Kathy Bates' character,

The Unthinkable Molly Brown. True. she's happily lending Jack a tuxedo this guy from the bottom of the boat that is hanging out with okay she gets him she like she she Molly Brown wasn't she wasn't born into money she she gets him

tuxedo fits perfectly that's a problem in every movie they always go hey you're just about my son's size like you're like you're just about my husband's size it's not how sizes work the party below deck so all these people are hanging it out. Here's what apparently the poor

people do in 1912. Square dancing, arm wrestling. Yeah. And they drink dark pints of beer. Ginnis. And it's a lot of it. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's just like that loud. And that's it. That's all they do.

So this is my... This is it. That's a party in 1912. But this is my thing about that. I don't have... I always just buy it. Like, you know, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. Yeah. However, the white people in Europe are a party. we just go okay cool we don't know what you guys do you guys so basically they can be doing anything you'd believe it anything like literally anything if they're playing if they're playing scrabble would you believe that it's some facsimile of scrabble not if they had current

scrabble things but like yeah it seems like some shit they do in ire what about boo-ray oh booray i would have played bret Are they playing boo-ray? Are they playing Boor-Rae? More nitpicks. Rose's family has no money, but it's a secret? Yeah, that's a tough one. Because I was wondering about that as I watched the movie.

It's like, your father left us with a good name and all of these deaths. And then she says, do you want all of our fine things sold at auction? I was like, well, if you don't have any money, why do you still have your fine things? Like, how are you paying for stuff like right now? I guess it could happen. I don't know. Also, that they're, this is Philadelphia elite. Right.

They mentioned, this is a big Philadelphia social aid scene. Yeah, Philly. It made me laugh, the thought of like the Philadelphia socialite scene because the Philadelphia we know is the, is the fans that boo Santa Claus and are just get aggro about their sports teams. Right. It's funny to think like Rose was from Philly. I was thinking about her like getting mad about like, with the, did the Phillies exist in 1912? Hey, fuck James Horne.

He was just throwing stuff at him. They might have, yeah. I'm sure they were around like this old ass. So are we sure Rose and Jack couldn't have both fit on that floating thing? They gave it one attempt. I think they could have. Now, felt like they didn't really give that enough of a run.

I needed like a three-minute sequence of them trying to fit on the raft. Well, see, this is my situation with Jack is like, if you're Jack, don't you, every customer? couple of minutes, keep trying to get back on it. You know what I mean? If you're not, Jack, if you stay in the water, he knows better than anyone. He said it. If you stay in the water, you're a goner.

But don't you have to keep trying to get back on the thing. It seems like his feeling was I just had like the best day to my life. It ended a little badly here. I'm going to freeze death in the ocean. But I think I'm good. Yeah. I mean, he went out on top. Yeah.

Great one. Got to have sex in a car, painting somebody. Are we sure? Rose would have found a handcuffed Jack on the fifth story of the boat because this one guy's like, yeah, you go down two staircases. It's left, right, left, right, and you'll find them. It's tough. That's a tough one. That whole sequence, right? That whole sequence on my rewatch, I'm looking at it and I'm like, it bothered me because they got lucky so many times just for Jack to die at the end.

they got looking not only there she found him they got lucky that she was able to take an axe and break his chains like on some Django shit like it's like she like they got look the whole thing was lucky

I couldn't remember what the guy told her and then she just gets down there and starts screaming for then she finds an axe what if she don't find an axe bill it's an axe hanging out there it's an axe do you think you could have swung the axe and hit the handcuffs? Fuck no Yeah, I think that...

And three feet of water? Yeah, I think that's way harder. So, Rose mentions this one Picasso painting that we know exists. It's called like Damal, Davon, something like that. All right. The painting went down with the ship, but it still exists now? Oh, wow. Yeah, sorry.

That's why I'm here. Any other nitpicks? No. No. No. Oh, there's one of the nitpick. One of the nitpick. So Jack, they won their tickets

Like in a In a hand of poker Yeah They were broke Yeah, what did they put up for stake in the poker game? What did they put up versus the tickets? I know there's money there, right? Seems like some sex trafficking possibly

Seems like, yeah, I was like, I was like, They say they ain't got no bread So like, how are they The whole deal, you know, whatever, that part That's a great call. Really good job by you just there. on the one hand this ticket on this boat this unbelievable boat the talk of the world right and jack's like i have two dollars two bucks two bucks to travel to america on the titanic by the way those guys's

friends were expecting them because remember when they get on the yeah so it's like like what does i'm looking at jack it's like hey i want to play some poker like put up your tickets to the titanic I don't think James Cameron understood poker. Like we needed 20 seconds of Jack being like, this is my watch. It's the only thing I own. My grandmother gave me this watch. Right. It's a trip to America.

One thing I have. But yeah, we need that. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show is our next category? I mean, yes. Yeah. It's one of those things where I was like, no, they can't do that. The movies lives on. People are still watching it.

movie's never going to die. And the other hand, I was like, eh, Titanic show, I don't know. I actually, would we cover that

on the ringer if it was good? Yeah, of course. You know what's crazy is when I searched it to, to like, like watch it,

to, you know, Apple TV, they did something. They did like a Nev Campbell, uh, fucking Mr. Big from Sex and the City.

Oh, no. New Titanic. Cancel Titanic? Or show. Yeah. And like 2012. Jesus.

Or something. like that. So they, I guess they've tried it. Of course they could bring it back, but this is the defining Titanic fucking movie piece of art of all time. Yeah, we need more time with this before we do a TV show. Probably in answerable questions.

So Cameron said, was Rose still alive and dreaming of Jack or did Rose die? Cameron does the whole, hey, it's whatever you want it to be. That's his official word on it. He will not say Rose died. What kind of Oh, boy.

Craig, you have to turn the camera and I think for this one. Rose throws her hand up on the window, right? Right. What kind of sex position were they in at that point? Very clearly, woman on top. Because they're in a seat. Well, they finish, but they finish, and he's on top of her, and they're on the seat. But when we see that, it's like the hand goes up, but it's like she's falling back.

And so if she's on top of them, but it's like this small car, he's got to be sitting too. Yeah. Right. So you should see the back of his head with the hand. The hand just comes out of nowhere. It's like, it's just fucking random. Right. Things happen to you.

We've all been in the back of cars, especially, you know, like what is that, an old stew to baker or something? I don't know. I want to see. You know that show where they MythBusters when they reenact shit? I want to see them reenact the sex scene to see how the hand got up there. Let's put two people in. and positions and just see if any,

if there's any scenario where her hand hits the window, but you don't see his head. Bill, I think you have to see his head. Bill, I think you just sold a show. Sex busters. Yeah,

you just sold a show. The ringer and partnership with Playboy TV. Is this movie the best argument ever that climate change maybe isn't the worst thing in the world? He's not going to hit any icebergs. Yeah. There's no icebergs in a world where everything is 110 degrees every day. There you go.

Fuck your polar bears, right? Trump should have thought of that. How long do Jack and Kate stay together if they get off this boat together? Damn, I'm married Jack. I literally never thought of this. Yeah, she does. They figured out how to both. Say, marry Jack.

That's it. They're in. Yeah, they get married. I think they do, too. I'm with you. last one Leo turned down boogie nights to be in this movie

good call or bad call leading in boogie nights Dirk Diggler Fantastic call that fantastic call I'll tell you why number one that

that's not a this is going to sound so stupid and the ringer fans are going to kill me for this that's not that's a star making role but not in the way

that this one is there's another scenario where that's a star making role that then he gets to choose we move into the catch me if you can phase of his career immediately versus this weird four year stretch where it's like the beach and him just kind of figuring out how to do with being as famous as he is right leo leo could have figured that roll out obviously but like that role is like very very very very mark walberg and that you need a guy who is a guy who is a guy who is is a really, really, really, really, really good actor, but actually knows how- And a little virile. And a little virile. Like, you need somebody that, I don't think it works as well with Leonardo DeCaprio.

I think it's better for Leo that he obviously took this one. I think you're right. The first time I had Paul Thomas Anderson on my podcast, notice how I did the first time, how I dropped that there. Right. The first time I had PTA on, my guy. We asked him, me and Sean, about the Boogie Nights thing. And he was kind of like, it kind of worked out for the best.

Yeah. Leo did Titanic. That was great for him. And Walberg probably was the better Dirk Diggler. I'm sure Leo could have figured out Dirk Diggler. Oh, he could have figured out. And I'll tell you one thing. I think that Dirk Diggler is Walberg's Apex Mountain.

I think you're right. Yeah. Although he got nominated for the departed, which he was in with Leo, everything comes full circle. I think Dirk Diggler is serious. I don't think it was for Leo. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? That's not the necklace. So I thought about this one as much as I thought about anything else.

And do you know what I want? I want the nickel-plated 45 that cow. That's a great one. That the Lovejoy guy had and that he gave the Cow. I want, that was a beautiful gun. I would want the nickel-plated 45 that Lovejoy had or whatever it was. It might have been a nine, but I think it was a 45. It's a great one.

I would want the Titanic ticket that Leo wins in the poker game. Oh, that's a good one, too. That would be a good one to, like, frame it, put it up there. Or I'd want the eight-frame photos of Rose that she put next to her bed as she slept of herself. I want my personal things. No pictures of my granddaughter with all of this stuff. Just me. Yep.

Just me. Me and only me. Who won the movie? Leonardo DiCaprio. I agree. It's weird to say James Cameron didn't win the movie, but I think Leo wins the movie. I think he becomes the biggest star of the last 25 years.

I think he has to win. All right, before we go, we're going to bring him producer Craig because he's outraged by the... He called it Rose Slander. I call it Rose Fax. I don't know where you come up with the word slander when all we did was spit facts for 10 minutes.

Go ahead, Craig. I'm fired up. I turned on the mic for this, so it's not even my Zoom audio. This is going to sound clear for people. You guys got through your obligatory praise of the movie, and then you got to what you really wanted. It's the shit on these mini character holes,

which are baseless, it's senseless slander. So I've crafted a rebuttal for each of your rose demerits. Okay, let's hear it. Okay. Condeming her for cheating. Cheating, and air quote, she cheats on the abusive, selfish, misogynist asshole of a fiancé who she's practically been arranged to marry.

Fair. I feel like that's all right. Fair. Okay. Fair. Her not immediately defending Jack after he saves her. Well, first of all, I feel like her whole life, she's been told, stay quiet, be civilized, don't defend this kid. Also, maybe she couldn't think of a quick cover up on her toes of why she was attempting to commit suicide.

She couldn't really think of an excuse real quick. No, this one doesn't work as well. Yeah. She let Jack was about to be handcuffed and taken down to the fifth floor of the boat. She couldn't think of an excuse. She's surrounded by her whole family. What is she going to do? defend the poor boy?

Craig, let me tell you something. Yes, actually. One day me and you... She just met him. Craig, one day me and you are going to go out on the town, right? And if it happens that I get handcuffed, you better not fucking wait 15 minutes with the police. I'm like, can I have a blanket? Yeah, like for me to pull.

I need you to give it. Hey, he was doing like, help. Yeah. Help out, Craig. Please defend your friends faster than she did. Okay, keep going. All right. Moving on.

She doesn't see her husband in heaven. Jack is her true love. Jack tells her to have babies and live a long life, which she does. Sorry that the first person she sees in heaven is the guy she just talked about for the first time in 60 years. And then she immediately dies and sees him. Is that really a big problem? Listen, Craig, you're getting married soon. I just hope, I just hope, hope for your sake, your wife sees you at the end. Right. So just those are the stakes. We're talking about commitment to marriage. It's about saying you true love. And not a guy that she was hanging out with at Signor Frogs, Panama City Beach, Florida for three days, spring break. This is horrible.

Three days, too. Two days. Two days. The Titanic sunk in five days. Two dates. She went to the bottom of the boat after dinner. And then the next day had the whole painting car sex date. That was it.

Okay. Then the boat sank. This is terrible. Moving on. Where are the photos of her family? Well, first of all, I went in and really looked at it. There is a photo of her, her husband, and her two children at the beach. It is on there.

It is on the nightstand next to her. I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was looking at the nine photos. I didn't realize there was one. Well, here's the thing about the photos, Bill. They're all things that Jack told her to do. Ride a horse with a leg on either side of it in the Santa Monica pier. She's living the life of adventure, traveling the world.

Aware of it. Aware of it. Jack told her to do. Aware of it. Is there nothing that her actual husband told her to do? What about their members? So, yeah, I'm aware that all of those things are things... He's in it.

He's up there. There's a photo of him. I'm aware. What I'm telling you is that I would like my wife to have some pieces of me up on the thing. That's all I'm saying. Is Rose's husband in the afterlife looking down on that going? This is a W for me. I'm in one of the nine photos, barely.

Great stuff. Glad I devoted my life to this lady. Last one, dropping the necklace. It's okay, I get it. Could she have donated it to charity? Sure. But like, what are we doing here? This is the movie.

It's her finding. closure, all right? It's her finally letting go of Jack. She hasn't talked to him in 60 years. This was the last piece of him. She lets it go when she goes and dies. Okay, so point of fact here. If she's not going to have the necklace anymore, what difference does

it make whether or not she drops it into ocean or whether or not she gives it to Bill Paxon? Yeah, what is it? Like, she thinks Jack's going to get frozen Jack's going to get the necklace? Jack dead. Who are you rooting for a national treasure? Did you want the villains to find the treasure so they can exploit it and go by a mansion? What did Bill Paxon

want to do with that diamond necklace. First of all, it doesn't matter. She doesn't have to give it to... Yeah, I get it. She could have donated it. Or put it in a loom so that we could enjoy it. But Jack doesn't really have a dog in that fight. Like Jack is already gone, wait for her in heaven,

while her husband is somewhere on the third deck of the Titanic with all of the other people who don't get to hang out with Rose anymore. I'm telling you, bro. Notice how... Notice how Craig, he does this impassioned defense, doesn't mention the part where Rose killed Jack. let him freeze the death in the water so she could be nice and warm on the floating thing. That's Jack being a gentleman.

Maybe they did try it. Maybe he tried to get on the door. Couldn't fit. Yeah, he tried one time. Look, this one time, Rose is like, get the fuck off this. This is insane. Never going to change my opinion of Rose.

And there's other stuff. Me neither. I'll let us slide on some shit. I'll be always be. We talked about this months ago. I'll let her slide on some shit. There's other shit that I saw. in this movie.

I didn't even bring it up. I haven't bring it up, but I'll let it slide, but that's okay. I feel you, Craig. Listen, when this podcast comes out, there's going to be more people

on Van and I... I'm on the right side of history here. ...than my side than people realize. All right, that's it for the rewatchables. That was producer Craig Horlebeck. Van Lathan, you can listen to him on Higher Learning and Ringervverse, and we'll see you next week with another big one.