The Rewatchables - 'Titanic' With Juliet Litman, Amanda Dobbins, and K. Austin Collins

Episode Date: September 28, 2017

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman, Amanda Dobbins, and K. Austin Collins sing Celine Dion and let the disaster jokes fly as they go deep on 1997’s Oscar Award–winning blockbuster ‘Titanic’ starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet. They discuss DiCaprio’s "cute factor," James Cameron’s obsession with the actual Titanic, and whether Rose would have chosen Jack if the ship hadn’t sunk. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wait. Other words, yeah. I'm Juliette Lippman. I'm here with Amanda Dobbins. Hello. And Cameron Collins. Hey. You may know him as K. Austin Collins.

Whatever. We're here to talk about Titanic, one of the greatest movies of the 20th century. Titanic was called The Ship of Dreams, and it was. All right. Open your eyes. I figure life's a gift,

and I don't intend on wasting it. You never know what hand you're going to get dealt next. You learn to take life as it comes at you. Really excited. I just love Titanic, and even though it's over three hours, it's just eminently rewatchable. It doesn't feel three hours. No, it doesn't. However, I will say the last hour.

I don't know. Once the boat starts sinking, my interest does as well. However, I still love it. Yeah, I would say I watched it last night. Thank you to the E network. Yeah, shout out to E. What great timing. Not totally thank you because I deviarded and then it cut it off right as Old Lady Rose was getting her happy ending.

What's the TRT on the cable network? broadcast of that. Like, are we at four hours? Like, what's the block? Well, this was 321 because I showed up late. I showed up right before I'm King of the World. And then apparently it saw fit to cut off before Rose got to have her final little old lady warm in her bed moment. So it was a 321. Thanks for asking. I guess it would be four with commercials on table. That's very long. Anyway, you know they had a real hole if they're willing to give it four hours. That's true. Anyway, I did fast forward through some of the boat stuff, which scandalized Cam when I told them that earlier. That is scandalous. That's like...

What boat stuff? The sinking? Yeah. Like the literal Titanic. Like the event. The reason that it was a movie. And they were like running around a bunch. I got it. You know. This relates to something I want to get to a little bit later. But let's just start from where we all were in the year 1997. And by we, I mean, the people of the movie. Leonardo DiCaprio is 23 years old. He's just been in Mexico. filming Romeo and Juliet and he goes straight into filming Titanic. There's a great Vanity

Fair piece from 1998 where he expresses his displeasure at having to stay in Mexico to film Titanic. He was sick of being in Mexico. He wanted a change of location. But wasn't he even like a bathtub the whole time? Right. That's a great point that we'll come back to.

I think it was Paramount, had just built a Mexico studio. And so they filmed there. But yes, it was Baja, California. and it was like a 22-acre studio that they filled with water so that it had like the feeling of the expanse of the ocean. I remember this from the Oprah special that I watched multiple times as a kid. I remember it too.

And I think this is actually important like to get at, which is that 1998, like you, I think Amanda, you kind of mentioned this previously, was sort of like the apex of monoculture, of pop culture, basically, where this sort of was like a few sources and like a few things that were big and everyone focused on them. Like, I don't think Shakespeare and Love would be a popular movie now, but... Unfortunately.

The masterpiece, Shakespeare. It would be like an indie, right? Like, it'd be like a cool indie film that people were like, go see it, and the ringer would cover it a lot. But it wouldn't be like... It would be a Harvey Weinstein film, which it was at the time,

but somehow Harvey Weinstein managed to make us all go see Shakespeare in love. It would be tulip fever. Yeah, exactly. But so there was just such a saturation of Titanic coverage. Yes. Yeah, deservedly. No pun intended, guys. Oh, no.

I think this is... No, I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm sorry. I'm ready. Water jokes. I feel like, you know, I was doing research for this, and I feel like it's important also to kind of put the Titanic coverage in context because Titanic the movie was many years in production. Many.

Was, I believe, $65 million over budget. Yeah. And was kind of followed through most of 1997 as this total... Sorry. There's no other word here. Disaster. I apologize. And James Cameron really dines out on this now

that they were kind of being savaged in the trades and talking about what morons they were and it was going to be a mess. And this movie was never going to make its money back and everyone was kind of had the knives out for Titanic. Yes. Which is a very interesting thing to recognize now that it is kind of, it's now the second.

most successful movie in history, box office-wise? Yeah, yes. After Avatar. Yeah. I think the most successful movie of all time, though, is now frozen because of licensing and such. Oh, that's true, yes. But it's not necessarily because of ticket sales. It's because of the Disney machine.

Yeah, I'm just talking about box office records. Don't you wish there was a Titanic ride? No. I do. I think that would be really fun. Like, I like a water ride, and I would love it if it was, like, Titanic-themed. I guess there's not just because it's sort of inappropriate. What would you do? Would you just be like the couple on the bed holding hands and then letting a green fly?

Like who would I be? Like what would the ride be? The ride would be, it would be like, have you ever been on Pirates of the Caribbean? Yes, yes, yes. You're like in a boat and like these like vignettes happening next to you. Okay. It would be like that but like rockier waters and like more 90 degree angles. I'm into that. Never mind. I'm totally into that. I thought you meant more like one of the Universal Studios rise that was just like on a movie set and you just pretend you're like.

Like there's that one that's like a fire where you're just standing in a room and everything sets on fire. Oh, horrible. Yeah, it's terrible. That I'm not into. Is that like the backdraft ride? Yeah, I think that is. Oh, okay, cool. That was a joke.

That was correct. But something like that. Or like the Jaws ride where you just see like a shark go back. I'm not into that. No. But a ride I'm into. Some kind of like experience. Some kind of Titanic water experience.

Anyway, back to 1927. I would just say that probably that'll never happen because this was a real event at some point. Great point, Amanda. We could. A fictionalize inversion. of it. Sure. Sure.

Okay. So we've got total coverage of Titanic. Everyone hoping it's going to fail. And then their reviews come out. And they're like really quite positive. Yes. I went back and watched like the opening two minutes of Charlie Rose interviewing James Cameron. And he begins with an Anthony Lane New Yorker quote about how good the movie was.

Like really unanimously approval from the critics. Anthony Lane was much less jaded at that point in his career. I'd have to guess. So I guess it's Anthony Lane. So who really knows? Yeah. Yeah, who knows? I love Anthony Lane, by the way, but yeah.

It was like a four-star Ebert movie, too, right? It's like a very big. And it was the frontrunner for Best Picture, right? Yes, it was. I think people were standing for LA Confidential, but I don't think it. People immediately went to see a movie twice. Like, it was beloved right away. Including me.

Well, so, yeah, I want to talk about this phenomenon, the repeat phenomenon. Sure. Because I will speak for myself, I was 13 when Titanic was released in theaters. Juliet was a couple years behind that. I was 11. I would get Can be right? 197, I was 10.

Okay, so we were all of a certain age. Sure. Yes. An important age when Titanic came out. And I don't know whether this is true for you, but the, you know, I don't want a stereotype, but the girls in my school went to see it, like literally 10 times. Yeah. I know people who saw Titanic in theaters 10 and 12 and 15 times, and they were all of a certain age,

and were all there for one thing and one thing only, and that was Leonardo DiCaprio. Man, is he cute in this movie? He's really attractive in this movie. It's not my favorite Leo ever in terms of looks, but it definitely makes me blush to this day. I'm like, oh, you're cute. Yeah. Oh, you're smooth.

He was really smooth. I'd love to meet you in Steeridge. He's just really cute. Imagine Leo playing like an artist urchin on a ship now. I can't even imagine. Yeah. I mean, currently I would play Cal, right? Like, there's no other role for him in this movie,

but the asshole boyfriend. Totally. Yeah. He's aged out. That's okay. That is okay. Yeah. I was not.

Kyle's a meaty role. Yeah, it was. It's like the only good thing Billy Zane's ever done. Well, the year before that, I don't want to say a good thing, but he was in a movie called The Phantom. Do you know about the Phantom? No. It's like. Is it based on the Phantom of the Opera?

A worse. Oh. It's based. I know. I could tell you you were a fan of the opera fan. That's why I'm a little shake. Love some Andrew Lloyd-Weber. What can I say?

No. No, it's like he plays the descendant of African superheroes or something. Yeah, it's hashtag problematic. But you should absolutely see it. It's Billy Zane in a purple costume, saving the world. Okay, I won't be seeing that, but I'm glad I know about it. I'm glad I know. And Kate Winslet had just been in Sense and Sensibility as Emma Thompson's, like number two, and she was adorable.

But she wasn't that famous. No, and she was so young. I think she was 22 because she became the youngest person, to ever be nominated for an Oscar twice with this one because she was also nominated for a sentence sensibility. I learned that from Inside the Actors Studio on Kate Winslet. I watched the Titanic segment. I recommend it. This is great. Let's get right into some casting

on what ifs based on it. So Kate Winslet had had to do a screen test, which you can watch online. And it's with Jeremy Sisto, aka Elton of Clueless, which is kind of hilarious. I don't think he was in contention, but he did audition. The major name

who was in contention for Jack, Dawson is Matthew McConaughey. Yes. Though I found some others. Some were verified than others. Here are some of the other names associated. And these are on, well, Stephen Dorf, we know to be true because I then linked to a fantastic quote.

Please read it. So first, it's important to read the headline on this piece of journalism, which is just actor is thankful he didn't get Titanic role. Actor. Actor. Doesn't even get a name in the headline. So this is apparently from the New York Daily News. Blade co-star Stephen Dorf on why he is grateful that he was passed over for the Leo DiCaprio role in Titanic.

I want to have a career like Johnny Depp, Sean Penn, and Jack Nicholson. I want to win an Oscar one day. That would have been impossible if I'd got Titanic. Look at Leo. His career can only go downhill from here. He'll always be the guy on the boat. Zing. Wow.

But he's right, right? I mean, is Stephen Dorf going to be the one giving that question? I don't agree, though, actually. You don't agree? No, I don't think of him as the guy on the boat. I just think he's, I don't know, he's been in so many hit movies. Oh, sure. Everyone has, but also I feel like everyone has their favorite Leo.

Sure, sure. Whereas I actually think Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are much more locked into their 90s work than, like, I don't ever think of like, oh, Jason Bourne. I'm like, oh, Goodwell Hunting. Yeah, no, I think it's definitely not true about Leo's career. But I think, like, the reason that Sophia Copeland made somewhere was because he didn't blow up the way that he would have if he was in Tysonville. Yes, it's absolutely true. Sure. Also, just Titanic will be in the first line of Leonardo DiCaprio's obituary.

That's true. It's going to be the first line of Billy Zane's obituary. Yeah, it's true. But when I googled, like, when I looked it up in IMDB, it was like Billy Zane, Titanic in 1997. It's like his thing. I mean, but also like he just hasn't done much since. He's been in so much. Look at his IMDB page.

You've never heard of any of these movies. He's been in three times as many films as Kate Winsett. I was shocked. Well, he's got to work, I guess. Another name that I saw on Wikipedia mentioned for Jack was Chris O'Donnell, who I actually think would have been a great Jack. Sure, I agree. Would have loved it.

I would have loved that. Yeah, because I think about Chris O'Donnell in the Batman movies. Totally. He has that vibe. He was adorable. Yeah, he was adorable. Did you guys see him on Grey's Anatomy? He was very Jack in that as well.

I need to see that. It was season two. He just goes straight there. I will say this. I don't really think Chris O'Donnell could have kind of skyrocketed the movie to no. A billion dollars or, you know, it made over a million dollars. I think it made close to two.

billion dollars in box dollars. Leo singular. And their chemistry is like enduring and special. Totally. But isn't it like weird how innocent Leo seems in this movie? I think that's something that really throws me off for watching it that I'm just like, wow, you were like this one. He's also quite little. He's a little guy.

One other one that was really good. Billy Zane played Cal famously. But Roblo, also was in the mix for that. Oh. Interesting. Yeah. Roblo is a great asshole. He is a great asshole. He is a great asshole. Insane Elmo's Fire. The greatest asshole. Love that guy. And also just incredible cheekbones.

Always had that naturally rosy cheeks. Just love Roblo. And I guess this would have been pre-West Wing and pre-the-Rablo Renaissance. So it might not have taken you out quite as much. Totally. It would have taken me out a little bit. Yeah. And also, there's no one that's so.

I mean, at the time, I guess people did know about Leonardo de Cabaret's Pussy Posse. But it wasn't really the first thing you thought about, right? At least not the general public. I think he- 10. So I definitely was not aware of what was. Nor was I. Nor was I.

But I just think like everyone had either like a fairly blank reputation or a clean reputation. Which I think it is important. It's good that I feel like it's good that this was for me like the big intro to Leo and Kate. Yeah. Even though Kate, I had actually seen sense and sensibility. But for me, like Titanic was the defining. Yeah, definitely. And she's, you know, great in it.

She's amazing in it. Yeah, she really is. This leads us into the half-fast Internet research corner, straight from the casting what-ifs. There's a lot of trivia out there about Titanic, like just a lot. It's true. Did you come across anything in particular you were excited about? Yes, I would love to read this one totally unverified piece of casting what-if from IMDB. Again, unverified.

Robert De Niro was offered the role of Captain Smith but turned it down to a gastrointestinal infection at the time. That's absurd for its specificity. And more importantly, Robert Snihra was not taking the role of the captain. There's literally no way. I just wanted you to know that it's out there. And someone is trying to pass that off on IMDB. That's fantastic. I thought that was really good.

One thing that I learned, because for Cam asking about it, is that the scene in which Kate Winslet spits at Billy Zane apparently was improvised. I'd rather be his whore than your wife. I said no. He didn't know who's going to be spat at. She was supposed to stab him with a hairpin instead. This is again unfairified, but this is the rumor. And she caught him off guard at the spinning.

It was like her idea. Well, I love the idea that it's improvised, and I hope it reflects some onset tension as well. Yeah, I hope so. Billy Zane does seem like a huge asshole. He's very good at playing one. I'm just going to say I think he's fantastic in this film. He's amazing in this.

I would say he's just kind of the best pure acting. performance he has the most to work with, I would say. I agree. But yeah, I was really impressed with him. Yeah, he is really good. You believe him as like an asshole dude who has like everyone in his pocket. Yes. Pun intended. Like the like the necklace. Yeah.

Exactly. There's so many facets to this movie. I like kind of forgot about the necklace for a minute. I forgot that the whole point is to search for Lacour de la Mere. Yes. Like that's like the propulsive force here. Right. So this reminded me of another there's a whole set of trivia.

It's not even trivia. This is fact that I learned while doing my half-asternet research. And I was kind of aware of how much James Cameron wanted to go sea diving and how obsessed he was with that part of the movie. But I had forgotten or maybe never knew that the whole movie was just a pitch to get a studio to pay for him to go underwater to visit the Titanic. And he did. And it turned out that he spent more time

with the ship than anyone who actually rode on it in that one voyage. He wants to be buried with it, I think. Is he still obsessed? Like, is it still a thing for him? How do you give that up? I don't know. Because you make Avatar and Avatar 2, 3, 4, and 5. But I still think that he'd rather.

I think that he wishes there were a Titanic sequel that could be made. I think he wants to stay in that world. It's literally going to be Avatar 5. I know. I would love a Titanic sequel. I mean, what would happen in it? Hmm, there would just be like, I think of like British miniseries style. Like we would just do like the Andrea Dora or something like that.

Okay. Just like another like ship that sank. You don't want to know what happens to the people on Titanic afterwards. Let's just run it back. Same idea, different ship, different time period. Down Abbey is in many ways a sequel to Titanic in that sense. Yeah, it begins with the sinking of the Titanic. Totally.

While we're talking about this deep sea diving, let's just pay respects to the great Bill Paxton. I mean. Are you ready to go back to Titanic? He's just incredible. I'm really, really good in this, too. He's really good. I continually think Big Glove is one of the most underrated shows of the last 15 years. And he's just, he's great.

He was so pitch-perfect as, like, underwater sea-diving cowboy. It's just, like, you know, using his bots to look for the safe and just love the vaccine. He's James Cameron, right? He's everything James Cameron wants to be and never will be. With a pierced year. Yeah, which leads me to more research that I kind of knew about, but really swam-in for a while today, which is just how much. much of an asshole James Cameron was during the filming of this movie.

It's, you know, it's from everyone. It's Kate Winslet, all of the studio executives. You know, everyone who's on side, they find different ways to talk about how he's difficult. He's demanding. He curses a lot. Kate Winslet in particular, I think, just had a truly horrific experience filming this movie.

It sounds like Leo hated it, too. Yeah, I think he is slightly more diplomatic. Like, there's one IMD trivia that I can. couldn't source them out, but Kate Winslet swore that she would never work with James Cameron again. Okay, important question. And this leads into the question of what has aged the worst. Yes.

Has anyone who has spent extended time with James Cameron spoken of him positively on the record? Well, didn't he meet his wife on this movie? His current wife? Yes. So not Catherine Bigelow. No, not Catherine. They were together, right?

They were together. Because the woman who plays... And she hates him, doesn't he? Doesn't she now? I hope so. And did she beat him when Avatar and her locker? Yeah, her locker. I mean, that was like, that was a major moment.

Yeah. Okay. So his wife? His current wife plays Old Rose's granddaughter. Oh, the pretty blonde. Yes. She was very pretty. Yeah.

Okay. So that's one. So she'd be the one. Because I just want to say my nominee. I can think of some more people. Please do. All the studio executives for whom he made so much money are not very nice about him. Everyone in Paramount is just like James Cameron, what a visionary.

Because I just want to say, I think for what's age the worst is James Camman's reputation. He has gone from visionary of aliens, true lies, Titanic Terminator to this wacky dude who made a movie about blue people who have sex with their tails. That's true. With four sequels apparently that are already written. I would have liked another Avatar movie, so couldn't you be delivered on it? It seems like you're going to get one.

I think you're going to get what you're asking for. Really? Yes. I mean, he's been saying that for five years, but sure. And I will say the best part of it Avatar was the realization. of the water drops in the air. So he just has a real water thing. Right.

So I related, my thing that has aged the worst, which is related to yours, which is the damn boat. That is a fake-ass boat. I love the boat so much. But you can do. It's so fake, but I love it.

It's so fake. And so James Cameron, this technical visionary, and I think Cam, you can talk more about this, but you were so horrified because this movie is in many ways like a technical feat.

Yes. Except it's not a technical feat that holds up anymore because I can see the CGIed sky and the boat. The CGIed sky is really bad. The Cgen sky is bad. It would be better to watch that movie

like in a planetarium because then the CgenI sky would blend into like the dome above you and it wouldn't be as distracting. But I mean the main reason like totally the last hour of the movie is very good for like the technical feat but really it's just about like

how many times the unnecessarily keep going back into the water in that boat. They keep, finding reasons to almost drown. That's why I like the last hour. I like the last hour because they're so stupid. Because, I mean, you know, I mean, we can get into that later, but it's a technical feat.

But really, I think the feat is like the excuse to make this movie longer than the actual sinking of the Titanic. Yes. Finding all the reasons to do that, I think is very impressive. How long did it actually take? I think it was only like two and a half hours. Trivia. That I read. Half-ass trivia.

This is unverified. But apparently, the runtime of the movie, two hours and 47 minutes, is also how long is. took for the Titanic to say. Oh, perfect. Really? That's what they say. I almost hope that's not true just because it's a little tacky, but apparently, it's so James Cameron, though.

And he would be into that. Yes, exactly. Because, I mean, like, the iceberg hits, like, perfectly in the middle of the movie. He's, like, I think he's into that kind of symmetry and that kind of numbers game. It's so funny. Like, these are such, like, basic tropes. And everyone's, like, what a visionary. It's sort of, like, have we, has storytelling changed that much in 20 years that we look

back on this and we're just like, what a goofy movie. Because some of the dialogue is also just laughable. Like, just so insane. Really wooden, and, like, he's never really understood how two people interact. And it's funny, like, not even Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio, who are two very talented

actors, can totally sell it. Like, sometimes it just kind of gets gummed up in their mouth. It's very funny. Do you have a moment or something to you other than the effects that age particularly badly? What if I said, that we're watching it this time, I was like, wow, this didn't age that badly.

I like it. I like it. It didn't age as badly as I, like, I think Avatar at some point, all the CGI and that's going to not look great. But maybe why I like the reason that this boat kind of always looked a little fake to me is because that holds up in a way. It's not immersive in the same way Avatar is. Yeah, like those kind of practical effects I think will be fine for me.

And then I'll just think like it is like a theme park ride. Right. Right. But like the CGI. stuff in other movies I think is always worse. Sure. In terms of aging. All right.

Well, then what age is the best? I think it's Leo and Kate's chemistry. And like there is no movie here without them just hitting it off. I got really involved in the romance. Yes. Like when she jumps off the lifeboat, I'm like, you're so stupid. But I love this. Absolutely.

There's so many cute moments between them. Like I'm sorry to fan girl out, but it's true. I watched the end of this last night at like 11 p.m. And I got really emotional. I was just alone in my living room being like, this is moving. I'm so moved. I'll never let go. But I'm also sickened with myself at, like, how, as I'm watching, I'm like, God, like,

I hate how you can just see, like, the mechanics of the script working, and you can see, like, he has to be poor in a certain way. She has to be, like, repressed in a certain way. When she calls the Titanic a slave ship in the beginning. Oh, my God. That's what age of the worst, actually. That was already bad. But I just, even as I, like, watch it, and I'm just like, man, the script was like,

I can feel every beat coming. It's just, like, there's something there. I don't know. I don't know. All right. Let's just get into our most rewatchable scenes. But first, let's talk about our sponsors. Let me tell you about Hotel Tonight. It's an app that helps you find amazing hotel deals at the last minute. It sounds counterintuitive, but unlike flights, hotel rates usually get cheaper at the last minute.

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It's magic. And now, for the first time ever, Sonos is offering listeners of the rewatchables 10% off one order of $2,500 or less for any product on Sonos.com. This offer is available for a limited time only and cannot be combined with other discounts or promotions. Just use the promo code, Rewatchables 10, at Sonos.com. to receive this exclusive offer. And now, let's return to the Titanic. Okay, Amanda, hit me with your most rewatchable scene. You know, it's got to be.

I'm king of the world. I'm the king of the world. That's a being. Come on. I wasn't expecting that. That is true. Every damn time, what else are you here for other than for, like, tiny Leonardo DiCaprio standing up on the front of a boat and yelling one of the top 20 most iconic film lines,

whether it's good or bad. It's actually really cheesy, but it's hilarious. It's also just kind of the essence of the movie. If you can't be on board with Leo standing on his shipping, like, I'm the king of the world, then you're not going to have a fun time. That's true. You don't even know what fun is. I don't really feel that scene, though.

Like, yeah, I totally want to be on a boat, like my arms out flying. Actually, being in open water, is one of my biggest fears. It is a really good scene. It's very sweet, it's very pure. We can all support it. It's also a little funny, but it's that. essence of the movie. And that's kind of when, you know, I turned it on the other night and immediately slacked

both of you to say, Titanic is on. We're about to hit King of the World. Which is, that's what you want for a movie watchable scene. Of course. Cam. Okay, well, I'm like very, like, sentimental. My favorite scene is the saddest scene when the string quartet starts the game. Oh, yeah.

I don't know why that's my most rockable thing, because it's cathartic in a way. Also, as we were discussing, the music is actually beautiful. one of the most underrated parts of the movie. James Turner, Mayher Rest in Peace. It did a phenomenal job with the score. And then it gave way to one of the biggest hits of all time. Oh, yeah. I didn't get to say that's my what's aged the best is the music.

The music has get. I'm sorry. Didn't mean to skip that. No, it's fine, but I agree. Yeah, that's all. It's phenomenal. It's really rousing. It hits a lot of emotional notes.

It's great for doing some work in your office. I was also very surprised when me watching it. Every cue is sort of embedded in my head. And I'm like, oh, this one, and I have an emotional reaction to them, which is a little bit about how many times this soundtrack was played in my high school, I suppose. Or, you know. Sure. Mine, too.

What is with that? That soundtrack, like, took off. It was the biggest movie of all time with the biggest song of all time. That's what happened. Yeah, but I mean, even like, not even the Celine Dion song, but like the actual score. Right, because when you're 10 or 11 or 12 or 13, you get a CD, it's handed to you. True. And then you put it in your CD player and just listen to it through.

So you're just like, well, now I'm stuck with that. this music without words until I get to Celine Dion. What if I told you, and I cannot believe, this is like, wow, this is just dislodged from my buried memories. I put songs from the Titanic score excluding Celine Dion

on a mixtape for someone. That's beautiful. In fifth grade. Is that beautiful? Yeah, I support it. I love musical score. I love movie scores. I don't think it was a good mixtape move

if you're trying to like woo someone. I think that's really beautiful. And also, do you remember how it was received? Yeah I do remember how it Was received and not responded to Oh no But because it was like

What was I doing putting Titanic score Like from the boat sinking What's the message there? Like we're gonna die together Or like We want of us to die No I think the message was To your point about like monoculture

I think the message was like This is a movie that we both love Right And I know that you're gonna know That this is the song that's playing When the ship's sinking Right And like this is the song that's playing

When she's like naked can't take how wonderful is this. I actually, oh, Cam, that's the sweetest thing I've ever heard. It is really beautiful. I hope whoever got that mixtape is listening. I heard so. Regrets how they acted.

Oh, man, that's, that's beautiful. It's a good score. It is a really good score. It's definitely one of, definitely like an all-timer. My most rewatchable scene is the dinner, is the dinner when Jack gets to come. And they try it. How do you take Ocaviast? No caviar from you.

Thanks. Never did like it much. And where exactly do you live, Mr. Dawson? Well, right now my address is the RMS Titanic. After that, I'm on God's good humor. And how is it you have means to travel? I work my way from place to place, you know, tramp steamers and such. But I won my ticket on Titanic here at a lucky-handed poker. A very lucky hand. All life is a game of luck. A real man makes his own luck, Gotcha. Right, awesome. Hmm. And do you find that sort of rootless existence appealing, do you?

Cal and the mom try to embarrass him, like, it just won't work. He's unflaffable. He rejects the caviar, and in the great lineage of pretty woman, doesn't know how to use all the silverware in front of him. And Kathy Bates goes, go from the outside in. I've never forgotten that. That's how I learned table manners. Likewise. Likewise.

I can't know that. Learn table manners from this movie. Yeah. It's a great scene. Kathy Bates is really good in it, too. She's very good in this movie, which I forgot. She is very good. However, her commitment to good acting somehow is dissonant with the lines she was asked to read.

And she has some of the worst, worst dialogue, like, just really bad. It's true. She has to be sort of the only note of girl power, which is a term that makes me sad. But she has to be the liberated woman. And she's crashed, right? Because she's new money. She's supposed to be the one who doesn't really know. She's a sad.

She's from downtown. Downtown Molly Brown. But I love that scene, and then it leads into my second favorite scene, which is when Rose meets him in Stierich and they go dancing, and they're like the Irish dancers. And she's still on her toes. She's chugging beer. It looks like a great time. Very good.

Looks like an amazing party. It looked really fun. I would love to hang. I also, you know, everyone knows the feeling of having, like, being in form aware for many hours, and then finally get into take your shoes off, undo your tie, and really like let loose. So just like seemed really fun. Yes.

I just love it. Has the adorable moment when Leo says to the little girl, you're still my number one girl, Kora. So cute. Top five dreamy Leo moments in this movie. Oh, got really good. I also love that I've never forgotten Kora's name. I forget so many names, but Kora sticks with me.

He says it with a very specific Leo. Like he like just says it. Let's do an impromptu top five Leo dreaminess because it's a great list. That's number one. Number two for me is when he calls her an indoor girl. He looks like kind of an indoor girl. That's true. Amazing.

I love that line. How about when his hair is falling over his forehead when he's drawing her? Yeah, the concentration face while drawing her is a pretty good one. Have we ever seen concentration face ever again? No. That was a one-time-only Leonardo Cabrio event. Can you believe that he wasn't nominated for this? I know, it is pretty shocking.

It's sad to me. Though, honestly, if he'd won for this, his whole career is different. That's true. Because he's not, you know, he doesn't have the... No chip on a shoulder. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And also, then he's officially the guy from the boat.

So that's true. It worked out. He had to keep striving. But now he's the guy from the plank still. Right. Yeah, it's true. In perpetuity. Number four, Jamie Leo, when she jumps back onto the boat and he's like, Rose, what do you do?

You're so stupid. Oh, yeah. It's really good. Oh, man, so good. And that's like another classic scene. You jump, I jump. Yes. I mean, there's just so many.

It's a classic, classic movie. And none of the things we've listed so far or even from when the boat starts sinking. No, the last one is. That's true. But no, you're right. Most of them are from before. I would say number five, Dreamy Leo, is when he's still humorous and fun when he's drowning because his hands are handcuffed to a metal pipe.

And his girl has a giant axe that she's never wielded before. And he's making jokes about how he hopes she hits the right place. Right, and they do the kind of the test of hit it in exactly the same place. And then it goes across the dresser. It's very good. Yeah, really good. That scene is terrifying to me. Even as I know that it's going to work out,

she picks up the axe and I just get really anxious. I think it's partially because, like, Leo is so pretty in this movie. There's something about, like, her with an axe swinging in his direction that's just very stressful for me. I agree. It's just very stressful. Keep that face pretty. Yeah, right?

I agree. Totally. One thing that's funny is I don't remember his press tour quite as much as I remember her. I just feel like obviously he is essential to what's happening here, but I felt like she really kind of got catapulted in a way that he didn't, maybe because he was more famous to begin with. I think it was a little bit also because the movie was released in December and the Oscar nominations came pretty quickly after that, if I recall.

And so she was nominated and thus was willing to do more press and he was sulking at home. I mean, he did not go to the Oscars because he wasn't nominated, remember. No, I don't. Yeah. Yeah, he didn't go. I think the quote was, it's just not for me, man, which is what he said to James Cameron. Oh, my gosh. Fascinating.

Oh, interesting. So I think that he was, I have always gotten the impression that he's not the most proud of Titanic as an example of his acting work, but I think he was kind of salty. He wouldn't be the most proud of it, but he should be, right? I mean, do you think that he prefers the revenant to Titanic? Probably. Yes. I think Leonardo DiCaprio is a beautiful humorless man or was a beautiful humorless man. What's your favorite Leo movie?

Romeo Juliet. What's your favorite Leo movie? Wolf of Wall Street. Interesting. Mine to cash me if you can. I love to catch me if you can. Sure. Three very different Leo's. But that's, that is such, speaks so much to, like, his place in the culture, which is that he,

he doesn't give that many interviews when he does, like, they're very rich tax as a result. Yes, they are. And we see him so much more than we hear from him that, like, all of these, like, things, like, these quotes, like, stick out. And I think it's one of the reason also why Titanic, he's so amazing in Titanic. It's like, it's just so much him in, like, a kind of, like, in a type of role. He's never really played again. Very true.

I want to meet the person who thinks of blood. A Diamond is the best. Oh, my God. I actually don't want to meet that person. Accent Leo is worse Leo. I hate what he does accents. Accent Leo is absolutely the worst Leo. Where do you guys stand on the gangs of New York?

We watched it recently. Better than I remember. Amanda? Hard pass. I'm so in. I love that movie. I knew you were going to say that. It's just so good.

I also love Cameron Diaz in that movie, and I'm willing to say that on record. I mean, Daniel Dale Lewis is incredible in it. He's amazing at it. And Leo's good with him. He holds his own. amazing coming after Leo. I think Leo's still, like, in his, like, ingenue phase. It's weird that, like, Leo had a phase where he could be, like, the prey.

Yeah. And then he was in the revenant, and he was, like, eating horses or whatever. This is really mean, but I think that the change in his career is, like, directly tied to his waking. Like, I think he kind of stopped playing. Yeah, he stopped playing those characters when he, like, bulked up. Yeah, I mean, he became more imposing. For sure. For sure.

Because I just Googled it. Billy Zane and Leonardo DiCaprio, same height. And Billy Zane just seems like he towers over him. Oh, I did not know that they were the same height. At least according to the internet, who knows? And also maybe Leo grew. Let's say. I'm sure Leader DeCaprio is just like seeding Google results with the height that you just Google.

That's fine. You're welcome, Leo. Unintentional comedy award. I would like to give it to Kathy Bates. I'm sorry. That's fine. She's very good. But some of the things that she says are just like, what she's supposed to be like body are just so absurd and like dumb.

Just dumb. I agree. Well, but I feel like that's partially intentional, but even by those standards, I agree. I'm going with Draw Me like one of your French girls. I love that. Which is my favorite of the internet memes. Nice. Still, I mean, it's very funny.

It's really good. It's really good. So more trivia. Maybe this is well known, but I just learned that the first scene Kate and Leo ever did together was when she was naked for the draw me like one of your French girls. And James Cameron, I think this is well known. This is the one who did the drawing of her. Yeah, that happened.

verse the shot to make it look like he's a righty, even though he's a lefty. And that's the tone that was set for filming this movie. Let's begin with this scene. So the only, like, slightly racy part of the movie came on day one of principal photography, as they say, in the biz, or so I've been told. What is that like? I don't know. I literally can't fathom it.

It's one of the reasons I'm not an actress. I don't know. There's a very charming bit in the inside the actor's studio segment that I just watched with Kate Wenslett after she has read several of her diary entries from Titanic, which are not happy. But she's talking about the scene. And she actually doesn't, she doesn't say that it was the first one, but she kind of says, you know, it was awkward for a minute. And then by the end, I'm just sitting there trying to figure out, if I lie like this, what do my breasts look like? And then if I lie this way, is it better? And she was just kind of like, it becomes so mechanical at some point of

trying to figure it out that it's okay. But I like the image of everyone just kind of simultaneously giving notes. It's very cute. I think she has potential as a physical comedic actress. I'd like her to be in those roles. She's funny in one of my favorite films, The Holiday. I was like, you're just basing this on the holiday. What's wrong with that?

And her interviews. I stand by that, yeah. I support you there. Thank you, Cam. Do you have a nominee for Best Unintentional Comedy? Okay, this is small, but the sound that Gloria Stewart makes when she throws the heart of the ocean into the wall. I mean, the heart of the ocean plot line is sort of unintentional comedy, for sure. It's absolutely unintentional comedy.

What on earth. Remember when Britney Spears made a music video about the heart of the ocean? Isn't that, yes, baby, I went down to the bottom ocean, got it for you. What on earth? So good. God, the 90s were wild. They were amazing. They were really wild. We were all impressionable teenagers during that. What on earth?

The true gift of unintentional comedy, though, is all the memes that have emerged. You spoke to them. But the hardcore meming of Titanic in the last three to four years has been a true gift to all of us. And James Cameron never could have seen that one coming. But thank you for giving us the source material. I just learned today that there's a whole genre of meme that it's like not sexual, sexual jokes involving the boat. Like, it shows, I would say they're a little sexual. It's going to be a pretty sexual.

I would say if you're driving with children, maybe turn it down for the next 20 seconds. Here's one that I'm looking at right now. It's the boat at almost 90 degrees. It's like sinking. And it says, goes down on the first date. Just to be clear,

this is also not even an image of the boat from the movie. It's just like an illustration of the Titanic. It's like the drawing that goes with the book like a night to remember or whatever. Yeah, I read that book when I was... I totally read that book after the movie. Yeah. My mom was really into making sure. that you were aware of like all the actual history before being immersed

emerged into a um immersed into a historical experience like I had to memorize the Gettysburg address before going to Gettysburg had to read and I'd remember before seeing Titanic anyway this absolutely this picture could have been on that book but that's amazing there's just so many good ones that's fantastic there was also the famous Jack would have fit on the board yeah yeah absolutely which I feel like Jack didn't have to die yeah he didn't, but he did by the rules of the movie he did. Sure, by the rules of a romance movie. Are we sure that it wouldn't sink? I know Mythbusters did this, but like I'm out on this. I think it would have taken some effort. I think it's too easy to say that he just could have

gotten on there. James Cameron, like for all that's wrong with him, I just think should be exempt from like all well actually. It's like, you know, this man is dreaming big. He's done a lot of research. Let's just go with him on this journey. It'll be more fun if we do. It's definitely not the largest problem in the movie for sure. No, definitely not. It's the heart of the ocean. It never falls out of the jacket at any point. At any point.

Yeah, anyway. And all that water. Yeah. Really good point. Thank you. Deion Wader's Award, the best heat check performance by our role player, Billy Zane. Yeah. BZ.

Yeah. I was really astonished last night when we were watching. I really, a tour to force by Billy Zane. Very handsome in this movie too. We throws a table over? And also at the end when he's looking for her on the deck of the Carpathia. Didn't get that history right? You're right?

Thank you. And then he looks so emotional and you can tell he kind of loves her under all of it. I was very moved. He's good in it. He definitely is. He's also the most sort of like, it's not flashy. He's sort of like part of the ensemble. Yes.

He really is quite good. Okay. Now on to the most important category of the day, in my opinion. What is the best catchphrase? Let's start out the nominees first. Yeah. I'm the king of the world. Duh.

I'll never let go. You jump, I jump. draw me like one of your French girls. One of my favorites, which is not really acknowledged, but one of my college roommates and I say a lot. Iceberg, right ahead. Women and children. Women and children.

Yeah, women and children versus. What else? I've always had a soft spot for, they called Titanic the Ship of Dreams, and it was. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, yeah, okay. It's when they're, it's when, that's the transition from.

How I was, well, I just literally remember, because it's the transition from underwater, like the camera's going underwater, and then it goes up into the hall, and suddenly you're an old 19-whatever year. 14? Sounds right. 12? Let's go with it.

12. 12. 12. Right. Because I remember that from being a Titanic excessive at 10 because of this movie. Oh, cool. Cool.

Is it? I don't know. I think make it count is my favorite, but it's from my favorite scene, so. Okay. When he writes it in the note, tells everyone to make a count. Just cute.

Cam? I love that. scene. I, you jump, you jump, I jump, is my favorite, I think. So you jump, I jump, I jump, I think has been replaced by, if you're a bird, I'm a bird, from the notebook. Oh, fair. Yeah, that's true. And just in, like, the consciousness.

But Amanda and I were discussing this, is there, like, I think the notebook might not be relevant to teens anymore. It's probably not. Like, what has replaced it as, like, the romance film? Ooh. I don't know. I mean, I think it might be the fault in our stars. Oh, yeah.

But I don't know if there's, like, a line from that, really. So we can stick with you, jump by jump. Why aren't there more romance epics? They're great movies. Because this was disguised as an action movie. And so that's why all the people want to see it. There's literally no action. A ship sinks.

What are you talking about? It takes an hour. They built a whole thick boat in a tub. Do they actually sink it when they filmed it? I don't think it was that deep. The 90s were a big time for gigantic tubs. Yeah, there you go. Nice cam.

There was the Waterfalls music video. Then there was Titanic. Just a lot of, like, fake water expanses. And, like, huge vehicles, like, Con Air. Yes. And Air Force One. So, Transportation was having a moment. I mean, I love a disaster movie with transportation.

I do, too. Yeah. Absolutely. Speed, two. Those are rewatchables. I was furious that Twister didn't make it onto the rewatchable list. And I can sort of out of transportation movie since it's about getting the Dorothy to fly. Thank you, Cam.

There's still time. I'm furious. We have to do Twister. It's the best. It's an incredible film. I mean, between this and Twister, Bill Hxton. Yeah, totally. Totally.

I'll never let go, Jack. Which I yell all the time. I especially say to coworkers in an appropriate moments to convey camaraderie. I'll never let go. I promise. That's really nice one. Well, it's also had a second life in Gilmar Girls when Rory said it. That's true.

And it was the name of the club that her. one time. That's true. And spoiler alert, potential baby daddy's club was the I'll... Are we potentialing that? I think that wasn't... Pretty dumb. Could be the Star Wars dude.

You just that one on their guy. Wow. Gilly girls took a real turn. Anyway, let's go to top of Apex Mountain. Who reached their Apex in this film? Gonna go with James Cameron? James Cameron's the only answer. And Billy Zane.

Okay. I'll definitely go with Billy Zane. James Cameron, yeah. I like Terminator. movies. You do? I do. Wow.

Yeah, I guess that's, I, and the alien and. Culturally, James Cameron obviously reached his apex. I think. I mean, certainly he has not gotten past this, like, personally. Like, I don't see him, like, doing deep dives back into the Terminator world. He's still digging around at the Titanic. So for him, this is definitely psychologically. The apex.

Yeah. Cultural significance, if not actual filmmaking technique. I mean, like, how do you even get beyond this? Sure. I mean, I guess he kind of did an avatar, but I don't know. He's trying to with Avatar, but I think he's taking him five avatars. A fatal flaw of Avatar is that handsome Sam Worthington's face barely appears. Thank you for saying that.

That has been my main problem with that movie. Well, just think about how much Hanson Leonard DiCaprio means to Titanic. I agree. It could have been different. Show me a little more Sam Worthington. He's a star right now. I need evidence that Sam Worthington can really act before. You put more of his face in Avatar.

I'm just going to go ahead and put that. out there. I'm not saying it's not possible. I would like to give him the chance. It's worth considering. I haven't had that evidence yet. Okay, fair enough. That's true. Fair enough. Let's combine picking nits and probably unanswerable questions. They tend to go hand in hand, my opinion. Yes, please go Amanda. Okay, so open waters. Yes. Why is no one seasick? Hmm. Oh. Great question. So I get really seasick and I'm like, I'll never go on a boat ride. As do I. I've heard that on cruise liners, like the Titanic, you don't feel the rocking quite as much. Can confirm that that's not true. Oh, okay.

I don't get seasick, but when I've been on a cruise. Yeah, and the only time I've been was not even on open water is it was just very close to the British coast. So you're in the middle of the Atlantic. I think some things are going awry. Interesting. Compare it also with the film Brooklyn, which had a real impact on me, not as a film,

but as on a portrayal of seasickness. Because that first trip, she's the only one who eats and then spends all night barfing. Yeah. I'm just asking. Okay. What else? You know, I wondered last night why they needed to make Rose an American.

Yes, great question. Because, obviously, Kate Wenslet is British, and also there were plenty of kind of British erasies of the Downabee variety marrying rich people. Although, I guess technically now that I think about it, it was usually more the men with the titles who were marrying the American heiresses for their money. Right, like in Down Abbey. Yeah. So maybe that's why.

I'm just saying it could have been plausible. Okay. We haven't really touched on this, but like, what did you think of Kate Winslet, her whole styling, her old look? Yeah, the makeup I have some questions. It's fascinating. A lot of very red lips. A lot of very, very pasty makeup that seems to cling to her even through all sorts of water being thrown in her face. And like kind of dark eyeliner to also exacerbate the paleness of the...

It's very confusing. Do you like her hats? Sure. I mean, here's the thing. I just wanted to mention the hats. Best part of her whole look is the hats. I mean, that's her entrance. It's like she gets out a little buggy and it's like her hand and then it's that hat.

I like that you called it a buggy. Yeah, is that like the word? It's like a carriage. Yeah. Well, it's a buggy because she's American. Sure. So she's like a little bit more down. You're right.

You're right. It's a buggy. I think she looks great for the first half of the movie. And then I guess I have to applaud the film for its real. realism because she definitely looks like she's been running, except for the fact that the makeup is sticking to her face, she looks like she's been running around in a sticking ship for two and a half hours. She's pretty soggy, yeah. But I prefer second half, Kate.

Really? Yes. As a look? Yes. I like the long red hair. I like the dress she wears for the second half of the movie. Sure. I'm talking about once, like, that dress is fully.

It's waterflot. And she's wearing like the stock making sense overcoat with the necklace that never falls out. and the hair is really quite damp. Yes. It's, you know. I come to work with wet hair often. Again, it's a realistic portrayal. You look great.

Thanks. It's a realistic portrayal of what she might look like, but, you know, Leo looks perfect. It's like barely anything has happened to him. Well, he's just really handsome. I'm just saying. It's true that, like, hardly a hair on his head is out of place. Yeah. Even as he's freezing, it's like frozen perfectly into place.

Yeah. There's no. There's no explanation except, like, you have a handsome man in the movie. You want to make him look as handsome as possible. Yeah. That's the only explanation. And, like, sorry, Kate wins that you weren't as famous yet. You didn't get the same treatment.

But she's also the one who goes on, like, the real emotional, psychological journey. He's kind of like the, he has a journey, but, like, when he dies, A. And B, she's the one who's, like, being liberated or whatever. Right. So, I have another nitpicking question about that. I would love to talk about Rose's emotional journey and psychological journey. Are we going to talk about the corset? the course of teen.

Yeah, listen, sure, I think that this is, it's a great movie. I love the movie and I don't think that she should marry Billy Zane. But I'm just also like, is she really jumping off a lifeboat for this dude that she met? Three days ago? Three days ago? They've already had sex. Like, what is she thinks going to happen? Well, she's like.

Well, based on the hand, it seemed like it was good. So she didn't, she wasn't ready to give up on that yet, you know? Sure. I always thought of as like a callback to like her wanting to jump off the Titanic and Jack being like, you won't jump off. And then, like, later it's like, well, I jump off a light boat for you. I don't think James Cameron's that clever, but I do think that, like. Yeah, I don't think he's that clever either, but I was going to say it's sort of like at all times she chooses Jack.

Yeah. So. As do we all. And she learns, like when she spits at Billy Zane, it's definitely a throwback to win Jack teachers her how to spit. Yes. I never thought about that before. Great point, Cam. I paid a lot of attention to Kate Winsett in this movie because she's the person I can't take my eyes off in the movie. So would you say she won the movie for you? She definitely went to the movie. She and the iceberg win the movie. Well, the iceberg is like, it's kind of like the big boss of the

movie. It is. She is really good. I mean, of all of the careers that are affected, hers is most dramatically affected. Absolutely. She's more the girl on the boat than he's the boy on the boat, I think. Yeah. Is that true? I think that

she's more defined by her relationship of Lena Articaprio than he is by his with her. Absolutely. Which says a lot just about like women in Hollywood. Yes. That's a very good point. But it's sort of like a talking point. When you Google her, YouTube her,

Leonardo DiCaprio always comes up, whereas with him, there's a lot more women. There's a lot of other models and jet skis and other things to choose from. But also a lot more desperation. Totally. Yeah. She is the most humanizing thing about him, like just in general.

Like their friendship is one of the sweetest, maybe the only kind of like genuine, humane, sweet thing about him and like his, not in general, but like in his public persona. Yes, exactly. Or the only thing that gives him a bit of personality. He's otherwise a pretty dry. The fact that she hasn't renounced him does speak well in his favor for me.

Does it? She might be insane. Who knows? I don't know. Don't put that in my head. I don't know. She's married someone to last name Rock and Rolla. Who can get past that?

And named her child Bear. But he's Bear Winslet. And she was, and I think Ellen asked whether his name would be Bear Rock and Rolla. And she was like, Ellen, I'm an adult. I love it. Shout out to Kate once. That's awesome. That's awesome.

Who do you think won the movie? I think you got to go with Leo because it's not peak Leo for me. That's Romeo and Juliet, but it's close. I think, like I said before, if he wins the Oscar, then it becomes a totally different career for him. And he's very charming in it. He became extremely famous from it and now can do literally whatever he wants, which he is exploited for the last 20 years in terms of making all sorts of weird movies. I'm torn.

You've both laid out very good cases for both of them. I want to say Kate Winslet because it feels like the right thing to say to like support a great breakout performance. But Leo's just so damn cute and charming. That's fine. I'm sorry. How about this? Kate Winslet's breakout performance is sense and sensibility.

That's true. You're absolved. You can like Leo. You're right. You're right. There you. Ultimately, though, for me it is their chemistry. Like they're the, because all I really care about is like the romance.

which is why I don't like when the boat starts to sink. Well, I'm just like, I liked the romance stuff. I like the build up. But the romance is so important to the boat sinking. That's what's ludicrous and beautiful about the movie to me. It's that like the boat is sinking and she literally is still hung up on this dude. I can't kill for that. I really relate to that.

I love that so much. I would be so be me. I would just be like, I would jump back on as well. I think it's one of the reason I like this movie is I would just do that too. I think I would too, but maybe not for a total stranger. I know, that's the thing. That's what's actually very affecting about this movie. I was watching it late last night.

And I'm just like, oh, can you imagine being, and I find when all the children are being separated from the parents, I find it kind of really upsetting. And can you imagine being, you're in a crisis and you can't be with your loved one anymore, you're being forcibly separated. That's horrible. And I think the movie does a pretty good job of dramatizing that, except she met this guy like 24 hours ago. It's the ultimate vacation fling. She doesn't want to let go. I guess so. I try to rationalize, like, that making sense by also remembering that she's also so over, like, somehow being a rich girl.

She's so over her. Here's another question I wanted to ask. Jack and Rose Meet, have a love affair, go downstairs, do the little dancing jig, and then the Titanic makes it to New York with no problem. What does she do, and how long does it take her to realize that she's made a mistake? Good question. Wow. New girl, new city, new name.

Half the time she's known Jack, so one and a half days. Yeah, I was going to say. I think that if the ship doesn't sink, other things don't. The reason she goes back to save Jack is because as the ship is sinking, she realizes how much of a dick Cal is. Like there's a point, like, when she spits in his face, it's because she realizes that cow, like, set Jack up. So I think that if the ship's not sinking, that doesn't happen

and that she thinks back in her mind to the corset scene where her mom's, like, trying to strangle her body, and is like, no, I don't want my mom to be poor. I don't want to give everything up. I think she is practical if the ship doesn't sink, and she doesn't go with Jack. The corset scene is such a trope in like American epic. It's kind of like one of the...

But she's tying the hell out of that corset. Yeah. But like when I was a kid, I really loved me in St. Louis. Yeah. And like those have like the really epic corset scenes. Scarlet O'Hara does it and gone with the wind. Like it's such like a, that's like the... It's so James Cameron to me.

It's like such an unimaginative way of conveying a certain like class or whatever. Yeah. Which maybe it's correct. I don't know. But it's sort of... Like class-based passive aggressiveness. Yeah, basically. Yeah.

Let's cinch that waist, girls. But it looks painful. Yeah, totally. I think she, like, if the ship doesn't sink, she's like, oh, I don't want my mom to, like, almost kill me again. Totally. I mean, I could do a whole riff here about how Spanx is such a revolutionizing thing, you know, tied to this. But anyway, all right. So it's a toss-up between Kate and Leon, who ultimately wins.

Doesn't James Horner win? You're right, James Horner. And Celine Dion. We have barely talked about her. Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, I think they ultimately. Man, the number of times that that song got played in carpels and at high school dances.

Oh, my God. Totally. I was in middle school when this came out, I think. It was of 97. So then, yeah, I had three years of middle school dances for that song to play. And it was just armed straight out on the shoulders of a boy rocking. Oh, yeah. It was just the best.

I've never gotten sick of the song somehow. And I feel like I've heard it so many times. times, but it for me is like in the like, I will always love you level if it comes on. That key change is up there with I will always love you. Exactly. In terms of dramatic power. I love a key change. That my heart will go up.

I love a key change. I just remember, because I wasn't really huge on watching the Oscars as a kid because like I wasn't going to see most of the movies. But I remember watching this Oscars and I remember Celine performing. It was like a big. Totally. Well, this was, I was saying, I think this was definitely the most important Oscars of my childhood because this was also, this was It was Satanic and this was Goodwill Hunting.

And so this was when I first discovered, it was really into Matt Damon in 1997. I was here for that. I think I was, in fact, more of a Matt Damon person than a Leonardo DiCaprio person. I was the accurate, fair. I still am. And I was really, really moved by, I mean, I loved that movie. And then Oprah was really in the Oscar interview game in 1997, 1927, 19th. 98, and I vividly remember both the Kate Winslet Oscar special, Oprah special, and the

Ben Affleck-Met Damon Oprah special, which I remember recording on VHS. And that's also famously the one where Matt Damon broke up with Mini Driver on Oprah. Yeah. There's so much to be written about Oprah's movie specials. Can. We've got a place for you to do that as a movie writer. Frankly. There's a lot there.

That Celine song also came year after she did that. up close and personal song. Oh, that's a real, real classic. She had just a real run. The second half of the 90s, she just dominated. Yeah. And like everyone else in the movie, it catapults her to a different level, at least in America. She was already huge in Canada, I guess.

Yeah. No, I think that's, yeah. She wasn't, I knew who Celine Dawn was before this movie. She got a new haircut for the Titanic tour. It was a little bit different from the up close and personal look. And then, like, the hits just kept coming from her. It's a perfect song. It was the beginning of Celine in America.

Yeah. And we've still got her. She's in Vegas. Go check her out. Oh, gosh. Thanks for listening to The Rewatchables. I'm Julia Littman. I'm Amanda Dobbins.

I'm Cameron Collins. Thanks for listening. You can listen to many more rewatchables with our colleagues and friends. They've covered movies like Speed, Point Break, Silence of the Lambs. Me and Amanda is You've got mail. There's plenty. So subscribe to the rewatchables on iTunes. And if you're in L.A.,

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