The Rewatchables - ‘Toy Story’ With Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin, and Shea Serrano

Episode Date: November 10, 2020

You’ve got a friend in The Ringer’s Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin, and Shea Serrano. That’s right—it's time for the 1995 Pixar classic ‘Toy Story,’ featuring Tom Hanks, Tim Allen, and Don Rickles. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before we get to today's episode, I want to remind you that if you are listening on a platform other than Spotify, you can only hear the last 60 days of new rewatchables episodes, plus these six classics, The Godfather, Heat, the social network, old school, Jaws, and the town. For the entire archive, go to Spotify, where you can listen to every episode for free. This episode is brought to you by Adobe Firefly, the all-in-one creative studio with AI-powered image and video generation. Build for today's creative process. Firefly helps you generate, edit, and experiment fast.

Because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Learn more at adobe.com slash Firefly. I sold my car in Carvana last night. Well, that's cool.

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly real offer, down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing what's the problem? That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch. Maybe there's no catch.

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow, you need to relax. I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood? I think it's laminated. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough.

Car selling without a catch. So your car today on... Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. The rewatchables are coming to your TV. Check it out on AMC during my cousin Vinny on Friday, November 13th at 8.30 p.m. Eastern, Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy, two Utes, taking a deep dive into this classic. Don't miss it. The rewatchables on AMC is presented by Blue Moon, brewed with Valencia Orange Peel for a taste beyond the ordinary.

The next time, you need a taste of the extraordinary. Open up a Blue Moon. Celebrate responsibly Blue Moon Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado. To infinity and beyond. This is the rewatchables toy story. Okay, everybody. Coast is clear. This holiday season It's showtime Turn on your imagination That's using the old noodle When toys come to life

Bo, boom, boom! Wolf Disney Pictures presents the first ever Computer animated feature film Code Riff, we are a coat riff Who and Infinity And beyond Toy Story

Way to G I'm Sean Fennacy I am joined by Mallory Rubin and Shea Serrano What's up, guys, how are you? What up, baby? Sean I feel great today.

Shea. Just want to say this to both of you. First of all, it's a pleasure to be here with you. And second of all, I just want to say. Say it. As the years go by. There is. There it is.

Our friendship. Okay. That's enough singing for now. Should we sing? Should we break into song together? We're not singing. We're here to talk about an important movie. We're talking about Toy Story.

This is the first Pixar movie. It's 25 years old this month. It was released on November 22nd, 1995. We always like to start this show by asking people where they were and who they were when the movie was released. Shay, I'll start with you. Do you remember seeing Toy Story for the first time? I do. I had never seen a movie that looked animated like this before.

I remember that standing out. I was 14 at the time. So this was still a thing I was interested in. Like I'm watching any animated stuff. The lasting memory that I have from this involves my cousin, my younger cousin Gary. We went and saw it like in our little family. family pod, his family went and saw it. And then like later that night, his dad found him, if I remember correctly, setting up all of the toys in his room. And then he would like leave

for a few minutes and then fucking bust back in and try to catch them being alive or to see if they had moved a little bit. You know what I'm saying? There's just like a certain amount of magic in this movie that I greatly enjoy. Mallory, what about you? So I believe I was nine years old when this movie came out. A baby. Baby mouth. A child. And, you know, always captivated by the imaginative aspects of life. I used to spend a lot of time thinking about my toys and what things were like for them.

I used to think about really a lot of like inanimate objects or things that were around me, Like the surrounding aspects of the orbed in my life And what, what, like, here's the thing I regularly used to think about When I was kids, seriously. I used to wonder about if, like, I was hurting the air. Like, if I waved a knife through the air, was I, was I cutting the air? Was I hurting the air? I used to think about things like that all the time.

You know, if you unzip a zipper and you leave, like, you leave a jacket unzipped in a closet, like, do the two sides of the zipper miss each other? These things like, just obsessed me when I was a kid. Okay? So I was really, I was a prime audience for this movie and I loved it. I loved it. And I obviously love a good coming of age story in general, but I think the fact that I kind of grew up with the toy story movies makes them even have more of an embedded and permanent place in my heart than maybe they otherwise would have. Very special movie.

As usual, DeMalley, you're insane. But in an endearing way, I think. I think a very, in a very sweet way. And I think that this is the kind of movie that can draw out that kind of emotion. They can draw out that kind of philosophy in a way. It's a weirdly a deep movie and it's a movie that has a central, a core idea. Yeah, that I think lets it persist as really one of the most important movies of the last 30 or so years. I'm excited to talk to you guys about it.

Shea, as you pointed out, it's really like... No, no, no. Hold on. What? Where were you when you first saw Toy Story? You're not getting off the hook that easily. So I was 36. It was about 3 a.m. No, I was I was I think 13 when this movie came out. So very similar to Shea. I did see it in movie theaters. I think by that point I had gotten the the movie pill. You know, I had really, I'd been reading movie magazines. I had a deep awareness of kind of what was coming out and when. And this movie was really touted as an event because it was the first feature-length film from this company called Pixar. And Pixar was, you know, co-launched by Steve Jobs. And it was. meant to be, it was like a huge innovation. Y'all were the weirdest, nerdiest

kids I've ever heard of in my life. Young Sean fucking reading movie magazines, Mallory worried about the oxygen in the air. I just don't understand any of this. Well, it's not hard to see how we ended up where we did. But I, you know, I fell in love with it, obviously.

And I think in addition to it being this great story of a boy and his toys, it's, you know, it's a buddy movie. It's a great buddy comedy in the tradition of a lot of the movies that Shay, you know, you've talked about on this show in the past. And Mal, you're a, you're a fan of buddies, you know. I love buddies. I love pals. So it's got like two tracks, right? It's got this sentimental connection that most

people who are of the generation that we're a part of connect to it in a very specific way. But it's also this really important movie and movie history. And it's, I've been informed that I think this is the first animated film that we've ever done on the rewatchables. So you guys are part of history. Yet another accolade. Unbelievable. Let's do some data points before we talk more about the movie. So this movie, of course, was, as I said, the first Pixar movie directed by John Lasseter.

It was written by a number of people, including Joss Whedon and Andrew Stanton, who went on to be a very important filmmaker in the Pixar system. It was also written by Joel Cohen and Alec Sokolow. The cast, pretty iconic pair of leads, Tom Hanks and Tim Allen as Woody and Buzz Lightyear. and then a collection of comic legends, Don Rickles, of course, the legendary insults stand-up comic. Jim Varney, for all you Ernest fans. You big Ernest goes to jail guy, Shea? Yeah, absolutely.

Remember when he has the gun made of soap and then the barrel melts? Love it. Incredible Paul. Wallace Sean, John Ratzinger, Ratzenberger, rather, Annie Potts, number of other luminaries voicing the characters in this movie. The score is by one of my heroes,

the great Randy Newman. He is the author of the song that Mallory was weirdly singing at the top of this podcast. This movie was budgeted at $30 million and it made $373 million. That's solid. So if you're wondering why

most of the animated movies you see these days are digitally animated, it's because this movie was a massive success and basically changed the game for animation, both for Disney

and really for the whole industry at large. So I wanted to talk about a couple of different things before we get into more details around the movie. Specifically, the idea of digital animation. So Shay, you said you had never really seen anything like that. At the time, were you kind of aware of the work that went into Toy Story to make it look the way that it did?

Of course I wasn't. I was 14 years old. I was not aware of the work that went into the, to making Toy Story look the way it did. All that I knew was I saw it on the, and the commercials or in the trailer at the movie theater. And I was like, oh, that's cool. Like that was, that was it for me. Because again, if I'm 14 at the time, like, I was probably pulling away from that sort of stuff. And then you, you know, I think that's the age where you like say you're not interested in it, but really you still are and you're like,

I guess I'll do it if I have to. And then you go watch it and you're like, this is fucking great. I love this. I love this. But no, I didn't, I don't know. I still don't know how they make it. I have no clue. I completely agree with that point specifically, which is that I think that this movie got me hooked on animated movies for life. I think the fact that it arrived at the time that it did, I was at a very similar moment where I was like, you know, maybe I should be aging out of this

stuff. And I've been super loyal and super enthusiastic about animated movies. And that's another reason why Pixar changed things. Mal, at nine years old, I assume you did not have an awareness of the amount of time and detail it takes to create a film such as this. I think probably not. Hard to recall for sure what level of scholarship I applied to assessing that particular question. But I think that the most I could say is that I probably was aware that it looked a little different than other things that I had seen and that there was something like cool and futuristic about that. I found myself kind of awed re-watching it to prep for this pod,

like how well it has held up visually in terms of the aesthetic. I actually, I re-watched all four of the Toy Story movies this week and then went back to the first one. And when you do it that way and you're going from four to one, it's like, oh, yeah, of course, this looks quite different. But when I first booted up one, other than the uncanny nature of the humanoid face effect, which I'm sure we'll talk about at some point.

The rest of it is just, remarkable. And then again, you get to four and you look at something like the rain on the window pane. And I almost was like, did I like take like an edible that I don't remember taking today? It was just so like gripping and all consuming. But it's remarkable. I want to remark upon the thing that both of you just cited though, which is that have I aged out of this question that you were asking yourselves? Because I think that that meta quality to the Pixar stories and the stories Pixar tells is really part of the experience, a part of the magic of it. You know, again, like any great coming of age story, one of the key ingredients and the key qualities is the ability

to appeal to you in a different way depending where you are in your life. You know, and it's probably going to reach you and grip you in some way, but that's going to change over time. And then you'll hit a moment where the nostalgia of it and of recalling how it felt to you that first time is the overwhelming effect. And then there will be the moment where, you know, like I am not a parent, for example, but should I become one one day? I imagine that will be like a remarkable experience. sharing this with my kid and watching them have that same kind of experience with it. So I just, I think that that is like almost deliberate in a way, you know, knowing that the people who are watching it are probably going through like what Andy is going through across the movies. So that's a good segue to the next question I wanted to ask you both, which is this isn't the first movie for children that appeals sincerely to adults.

But do you think that it basically kicked off a revolution of movies in which many, children's movies, arguably most children's movies, are also simultaneously designed to appeal to parents that are taking their kids to the movies. Shay, what do you think? I think, yeah, I think that's absolutely correct. They do a bunch of stuff in here that I'm talking about in the larger universe that is really interesting to dig into when you're a grown-up. It's just fun to be like, oh, I recognize this thing from that movie there. They're all connected here. I remember the Pixar universe theory coming out and everybody just, being sort of like absorbed by it and thinking of how cool it was.

But yeah, it definitely feels like that. Even now when we're going to go watch a movie, like if you see the Pixar logo, you automatically know whatever thing you're going to watch is going to be well made and smart and it's going to pull something out of you. It doesn't feel the same as other animated movie. I remember going to watch The Secret Life of Pets with my kids and the Pixar thing didn't come up. And I was like, wait, this is not a Pixar thing. And then I didn't think the movie was great.

I didn't think it was great. But when I see the picture of logo come up, I know, oh, cool, cool, this is going to be like a real thing that I'm going to be a part of. Now, you know, you're an adult woman and you just said you watched four Toy Story movies this week. When you do that, do you feel like you're insane or do you feel like you're doing the right thing? No, I feel like I'm living my life honestly and purely. Yeah. You know, to be, to be candid. Like, I want to see, how emotional should we get?

this early in the podcast. I think that's like one of the great joys I've had over the last few years working at the ringer and talking about the stories that I love on on podcasts like binge mode and the rewatchables and big pick and everything is is actually just being able to say unapologetically, I love this thing. It brings me a lot of joy. And part of what I love about it is that every time I return to it, I find something different in there that either I missed before or I can appreciate a new or resonates with me differently. So it was a great thrill for me to revisit these films.

And then I found myself, of course, craving a larger full Pixar rewatch and thinking about like, what's my personal Pixar Top 5? I adjusted my personal Pixar Top 5 this week during this rewatch. Say it. Say it right now. Wow. I did. I adjusted it.

I had a shakeup. I had a shake up. Fire away. We want them. We want it. Number one. I think probably forever. It would be hard to unsee it.

Wally. It's just an absolute masterpiece. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. One of the greatest love stories ever told. Good start. Good start. Okay, that's number one for you. Yes.

Okay. What's number two? Up. I'm out. I'm out on the list already. The best first 10 minutes. Yes. Those 10 minutes of up, I would put on par with any Shakespearean tragedy.

Whoa. What is happening? I would. If it was, if that was the whole movie, movie? Remember when they made, what was it, a bow or something like that? Yeah, when they made that. That's short. If it was that and that was the end of up, it would, I would be like, all right, I think yeah, you can make this argument, but it just peters off too far. No, it's wonderful. Okay. Okay. That's number two. What's three? Here's the shakeup.

Toy Story three at number three. Hey, there you go. Not only in my overall top five, but I realized it was my favorite toy story movie, which I don't think I had full clarity. Let's go, Mallory. You're back in the game, baby. You're back in the game. baby, you're back in the game. So I, thank you, Shay. There was a moment during Toy Story 3, my viewing of Toy Story 3 this week where my husband Adam had to turn to me

and pause the movie and say, do you need a moment? Because I was, like, freely sobbing. Basically for, I think what ultimately must be like 15 street minutes from the moment when all of the toys grab hands as they're approaching the,

When they give up, when they give up. It's not giving up. That's the thing. That's the beauty of it. It's accepting. You got to save this for the Toy Story 3 pod in 2027. We'll put a pin on that. But then that straight through, I mean, the sequence where Andy gives the toys to Bonnie

relaxed on what they meant to. It's just so devastating. It's so beautiful. Anyway, next number four, Coco, flawless, beautiful, wonderful. And then number five, inside out. So The Incredibles got knocked off my list. Toy Story got knocked off my list in recent years, but they're runners up and finding Nemo as well. What about you?

What are your Pixar top fives? Do it, Sean. I did this on a pod with Rob Harvilla a couple of years ago. I have some of those movies. I can't even remember the exact order. I have to give a shout out to Ratatoui, which I have always loved. A great one. I, gosh, I don't know what else is on my list that we didn't talk through.

You know, I'm not a big Monsters Inc person. me neither. I don't know. What else? Shay, what about you? What's on your list? Coco is number one. It's got to be number one. I think that just bulletproof from opening, from the like the whatever, the Disneyland or Disney World thing to the very end. Fucking. Remember me is outstanding. Instant tears. Coco is number one. I'm with Mallory on Toy Story 3. I think that's the best Toy Story Story. Give me Toy Story 3 for my number 2. Give me Toy Story 1 for my number 3. Give me Toy Story 1 for my number 4. and give me, this is my surprise pick,

give me cars for number five. Oh, can't do it. Wow, he's a little son guy. No, no. I should, listen, I did not watch this when it came out in the theater. I didn't watch it when it was like a thing, but I was teaching. It was the end of the semester.

We were doing the whole, like, it's the day before Christmas break. We're going to show a movie and have our little snacks, and we put on cars. This is how much I liked cars. I put on cars. I started watching it because I have to, like, sit at the back of the class. All the kids are in front of me and the screens up there

because I got to make sure everybody. doing whatever. And I start out, you know, monitoring. And then I just get pulled into the movie by the, you know, 45 minutes an hour into the class. I'm not even paying attention to the kids. I'm just watching the movie. The bell rings, they leave the next class comes in. I make them watch it from where I was. I don't even restart it for them. I'm like, I got to see the end of this. When Lightning and the Queen fucking hits the brakes before the finish line and goes back to get Doc, forget about it. That's my number five. And then honorable mentions inside out and and finding Nemo. But there you go. That's my list. Oh, I forgot.

about finding Nemo. I agree. Finding Nemo and Inside Out are probably in my top five as well. Okay, so let's just put a little context around this and what a major event toy story was and why it's got us so over-clempt about Pixar in general. So when, after this movie came out, Lassiter received a special achievement Academy Award for, quote, the development and inspired application of techniques that have been made possible for the first time in a feature-length computer animated film. So as you guys know, I'm a huge Oscars nerd. This movie was also nominated for a handful of other Oscars, including best original screenplay, best score, best song, et cetera. But that special achievement Oscar, there has not been one given out for a feature film

since this happened. 25 years have gone by because that's what a cataclysmic moment this was in movies and digital animation that, you know, these things only come up. I think there only been 15 total in the history of the Oscars, and very few of them are as seismic as this one. This movie has a 100% score on Rotten Tomatoes, which, of course, means nothing, but also in this case is just. I wanted to ask you about that.

How rare is that? Well, that's actually a very complicated question, and I don't want to waste too much time on it here in this conversation, but the scoring has changed a lot in the last 10 years, and there are more critics than there ever have been. I take it more seriously for a film that is this old. When a film is this old, that means that they're drafting off of original reviews.

There's now, like, literally hundreds, even thousands of critics weighing in on, I don't know, what's a good example of this? Let's take an MCU movie, for example. Like, Guardians of the Galaxy 2 probably has a super high rotten tomato score. It's a good movie. I like it.

It's probably not worthy of whatever ludicrous score that it has. But with something that's 25 years old, I take that 100% pretty seriously. It's a rare case of doing so. Roger Ebert. We always talk about what he said about a movie. He gave Toy Story four stars in 1995 and called it, quote, a visionary roller coaster ride of a movie and also said, seeing Toy Story, I felt some of the same exhilaration I felt during Who Framed Roger Rabbit,

also one of my favorite movies of all time. So what else should we say about this movie before we dig into it? I want to talk a little bit about where it came from and how it evolved. And I thought maybe we could talk about buddy movies a little bit too before we get into the categories. What do you guys want to talk about, Shay? You want to talk about buddy movies? Yeah, I love buddy movies. Let's talk about buddy movies.

Where do Buzz and Woody stand in the Pantheon? You know, Butch Cassie and the Sundance Kid, 40, hours. They're on par with them. The Blues Brothers. They got, no, they got to be above 48 hours

because I don't, I can't right now remember the character's names. I just know the movie starts. Okay, lethal weapon. They're above lethal weapon. Midnight run?

Above midnight run. Wow. Abbott and Costello? Way above. What about bad boys? Now we're talking. Now we're in my, now we're in my wheelhouse.

It's going to be up there. Martin and, And Will, buzz and Woody. That's, that's, they're hanging out together. Jeez. Mel, where are Buzz and Woody in your, in your buddy movie Pantheon? Well, I don't consider myself the, the same class of buddy comedy or buddy movie expert as you two, obviously. So I'll defer to your wisdom here.

But, you know, I think that what makes the aspect of their buddy journey so compelling and rewarding is that they really had to work for it, you know? It wasn't easy for them. There's a lot going on in their relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Real rivalry from the jump. And I'll tell you one of the things I forgot about this movie. It is short.

Yeah. Really, really, really short. It goes fast. And so they have to get you there in a hurry, establish all of Woody's fear and doubt, buzzes, complete lack of mooring and grasp in reality. the rivalry, the rage, the betrayal, the murder attempt, the sidekicks turning on Woody, the journey to pizza planet,

getting captured by Sid, the absolutely agonizing sequence where Buzz sees his own commercial, which we'll talk about more later, I have no doubt. The escape attempt, all of it. Like, it's one of the things that I love so much about the movie is in many ways, the Toy Story sequence is a whole,

whole, the series as a whole, the prism through which you access everything is Andy's maturation and growth, right? That's the driver of the plot is that Andy is getting older. But then every character has their own journey. And the fact that you get those for Woody and Buzz, even though they're starting off a completely opposite end of the spectrum from their point of view, their intentions, they end up in such alignment, but still with their own unique perspective and personality. It's just, it's great. They're great. But you also then, you got to root for them together, but also you got to kind of pick a side, like where you team, Woody or Team Buzz, which I think was also part of the movie's charm. And that continues to

this day with like the colors, the iconography associated with them. Like, are you going to get your, if you're getting your toy story sneakers, are you going to get Buzz Lightyear color way? I would. You're a buzz, you're a buzz, your head, as they say? You know, I'm glad you asked. Talk about it. It's a little more complicated, I think, because I find myself most invested in Woody's character arc, certainly.

And I think that Woody's journey is really at the heart of all of the movies, pretty unambiguously. But I'm always like a, I'm a space kid. I was and am a space kid, not a cowboy kid. So, you know, the, the, the, Like, in the second Toy Story movie, Zerg coming in and doing the Darth Vader bit is just, like, absolute genius to me. And I love that. And also, I think that, you know, part of the same reason that Andy was so drawn to Buzz, that had the same effect took over the audience.

You know, those bright colors, the whirers, the laser beam. Like, you're supposed to be drawn to him. He's supposed to grip you in a way that I think maybe someone with like a subtler disposition in an older soul, like perhaps Sean Fennacy, was probably. be like, I want to sit here with my glass of, of rye, and my, my, my, my, my, my, my, tweet, and I want to reflect on movie history. And I want to do that with Stinky Pete and Bullseye and Woody by my side. Yeah, you know, I think whether you're a buzzer or Woody is an interesting philosophical question. And you don't have to be entirely restricted.

Some people might be a Rex. You know, some people might be a Mr. Potato Head. Who can say? But I think specifically, I have some damning questions about Woody that we'll get to later in the pod. And because of that, I don't want to, I don't want to self-identify yet as one or the other. I did, but I think this is also a good segue to kind of talking about the origins of this movie, which I think are important before we get into the categories. So the original treatment for Toy Story, which Lasseter and Andrew Stanton and Pete Doctor wrote,

all three of whom are very significant figures in Pixar history, did not have a lot in common with where this movie turned out. It paired a character called Tinney, which was a one. one-man banned from a short film called Tintoy that Pixar made with Woody, a ventriloquist dummy, and it sent them on a sprawling odyssey. Under Jeffrey Katzenberg, who was working at Disney at the time, Woody was the main villain abusing the other toys

until they rallied against him. However, after Disney executive saw the storyboards, they relinquished creative control to Pixar. The core idea of Toy Story was present from the treatment onward. Toys deeply want children to play with them and that this desire drives their hopes, their fears, and their actions.

Katzenberg felt the original treatment it was problematic and told Lassiter to reshape Toy Story as more of an odd couple buddy picture and suggested they watch some classic buddy movies like the Defiant Ones and 48 hours in which two characters with different attitudes are thrown together and forced to bond. It's interesting what could have been.

You know, this could have been a very different kind of imagine evil Woody. I think you see... The original Lazzo. Yes, exactly. You see some reflections in some of Woody's more unfortunate moments in this movie too. You know, he wasn't able to totally shed

some of that bad action. I'm not interested in the evil toys, especially in the first movie. I think you work your way toward that with Lhzo, but I don't know, as a child who was scarred by the viewing of child's play when I was seven years old, I would not be interested in seeing that version of Woody. I can tell you that.

Yeah, they played it out exactly right. They played it out exactly right. You're not ready for it until you get to Lhazzo, and then they fucking drop that Lato hammer on you for, real. Before we go any further, I think we'd be remiss if we did not mention something very specific about John Lasseter, who is the director of this movie and an important figure in Pixar history. In November of 2017, Lassiter took a leave of absence after acknowledging allegations of workplace sexual misconduct, including grabbing, kissing, and making comments about

physical attributes. He eventually left Disney in June of 2018. The alleged conduct became so well known that according to variety at various times, Pixar had minders who were tasked with reigning in his impulses. eventually left in June of 2018 and now works elsewhere in the animation business. Just think it's important to cite that because he's a very important figure in the history of this company, but also can't, that stuff can't go unacknowledged. Let's take a quick break and then dive into the categories. We're going to get into the most rewatchable scene soon and spoiler alert.

That scene revolves around pizza in many ways. But before we do that, let's take a break to talk about Pizza Hut. The most rewatchable segment of today's episode of the rewatchables is brought to you by Pizza Hut. Everyone's got their own unique taste when it comes to their favorite scenes, and that's no different when it comes to your favorite pizza. That's why Pizza Hut created the $10 tastemaker. It's a large pizza with up to three of your favorite toppings for just $10. It's the go-to way to get your go-to topping combo.

In Toy Story, I'll give you a little spoiler alert. My most rewatchable scene is you got it the moment when Woody and Buzz get stuck at the gas station on their way to Pizza Planet. Scenes like that are the ones we never get tired of watching, and the $10 tastemaker is the pizza. you'll never get tired of ordering. Head to Pizza Hut.com and order your very own $10 tastemaker. No one out pizzas the hut. Tastemaker legal disclaimer.

Additional charge for pan and stuffed crust. Priced higher in some locations. Limited time offer. Availability of contactless curbside and delivery areas. Charges and minimums vary. Delivery charge, not tip. Okay, we're back. Most rewatchable scene.

Now, Mal, you pointed out that this movie is really short. Yeah. And it's kind of hard to break it up into scenes. It's more like three big acts. And so I was kind of curious. I have a couple of ideas and a couple of great moments, but I found it a little bit difficult to chop it into scenes. I think my first nomination is definitely for just the toys coming to life.

Andy leaves the room, and he's finished playing with his toys for the day, and we see these toys bring to life. Okay. First item today. Oh, yeah. Has everyone picked a moving buddy? Moving buddy. He can't be serious.

Well, I didn't know we were supposed to have one already. We have to hold hands. That's on my list as well. I have actually a lot to say about that sequence. It's difficult because you're right. It's emblematic of what you're saying. It connects almost completely to these scenes, quote, unquote, on either end. There's the opening kind of montage and these playtime.

And then we go into Buzz's arrival. And you sort of have to just make the decision to say these are standalone scenes. But that moment, the first meeting of the toys, the toys coming to life when Andy's birthday party is unfolding, is just like a masterclass. I mean, every single thing about it. You are pulled and ported into their world fully and completely right away. And it's on the heels of that opening sequence where you see how Andy plays with everyone. You hear you've got a friend and me kick in for the first time when you see the logo drop. It's, it. There's something about seeing the toys come to life where you're like, okay, of course I knew to expect this. It's literally the premise of the movie, but it's just magical. It is just completely magical. And then it all happens so quickly and organically from there.

You meet everyone. You see their personalities. You understand their dynamic with each other. You understand the mechanisms of their routine, how they operate in the universe, how remarkably inventive they are as they go about their house. go about their day and their lives. You see that Woody is in charge, but that everyone has their role,

everyone has their rhythm together. You know, they call it a staff meeting, but it's very clear that they're functioning as a family, right? A friend group and even a family. And they're like, they're basically wizards. They're enacting this witchcraft as they're spying on the gift giving at the party. And I love a lot about that sequence. I love watching them work and sort of understanding right away

that there's no such thing as functional fixedness for these toys in their world, there can't be. Like, every object that is around them has to be able to serve them in some way, to have a use for them in some way. But also, crucially, right, you see their hopes and you understand their insecurities, their fears. The stress that they have over the party just, like, reveals this balancing act in their lives, like, right away for you. You know, they want Andy to be happy. And this is, of course, a through line of all of the movies. That's their first and foremost goal. ambition. But it's inextricable from the fact that they're always worried about being forgotten,

always worried about being outclassed, about being cast aside, about being replaced. And they live in that constant state, that pursuit of joy, but also that like debilitating existential dread, which as I say it out loud, just sounds like basically being a human being in the world, right? That duality of existence. And I just think that the film is like a fable in that way. You know, there's this really like shorn down, deliberately simple. simplified approach to the story, but the point of that is for you to be able to see the profundity of it, to have a takeaway that feels colossal to you. And it's just all right there in that sequence. It's amazing. Shea, anything to add to that? No, she hit it all. I knew she was

going to do that. I was going to say half of that. Okay. My next most rewatchable scene is Buzz and Woody's showdown. This is when they both topple out of the car and they're at the gas station and the truck rolls up and you have Woody really losing his shit, frankly. And we get the, you are a toy. And you, my friend, are responsible for delaying my rendezvous with Star Command. You are! You weren't the real buzz light. You're an accent figure. You are a child's play thing. You know, that's, that intense Hanxian moment, which I think is kind of one of the funniest movies, but also like a weirdly deep question of confronting who you are in the world.

You know, the movie is, while obviously ridiculous in this fable like you're talking about now, it's also a big question of identity in this movie and what your role is in the world and what tribe you belong to. And if you want to, you can really drill pretty deep into the ideas that the movie is exploring. This was the one scene that when I turned the movie on, I was the most excited about seeing. I don't know if it makes it the most rewatchable, but this was the one, because for one, I like, I like when they fight. I just think it's funny. The line that, my favorite line in the whole movie is when they're under the car and Woody is laying in to Buzz and Buzz is just like starts talking.

He goes to like this whole thing about space and Woody just goes, what? And it just fucking cracks me up every single time. The Star Wars riff, man. It's the Death Star Riff. I love it. He's giving him like, he's laying all of the pieces out and it's just not getting in there. I was the most excited about rewatching this. Not most excited about rewatching.

I was the most excited about seeing this scene again, but this is not my most rewatchable scene. I love this one, though. Yeah, that's a great one. The part that you just cited, Shea, it just kills me every time because it is such a simultaneous homage and dunk on the Death Star Fatal Flot thing. You know, island of information that reveals this weapon's only weaknesses.

That's emblematic of what we were talking about earlier with, like, if you're an adult and you're watching this, you're going to have those layers there that appeal to you. I just think also in terms of their fighting, you are a child's play thing, and then you're a sad, strange little man and you have my pity is unrivaled. The best line in the movie, in my opinion.

That Tim Allen line reading is fucking epic. So this is like one of the parts of the movie. I remember watching in the theater. Because again, your teenager sitting there watching what's in your head as a kid's movie. And they get into the fight. And as they're fighting, Woody like pounds on him a few times.

and he accidentally hits his button, and he goes, buzz, buzz, buzz, light you to the rescue. And watching it happen and then realizing in your brain what happened right there and that he accidentally hit the button and that this was going,

I thought it was the fucking funniest thing in the world at the time. I remember just straight up laughing at that part and being like, all right, this is cool. I'm glad you guys like those as much as I do. I think that's really the heart and soul of the movie is these two guys kind of going at it. And it reveals like a little bit of a maturity too.

I think the older you get, you can still enjoy that stuff. Next scene, the cloth. You are the one that decided to climb into this. The clock. It moves. I have been chosen. Farewell, my friends.

I go on to a better place. Pretty iconic. I think once we get inside a pizza planet and what are you in buzz? What are those things called? That's eerily accurate, Mallory. How long have you been practicing that? First time. What are those guys called?

Those alien figures? Figures? Little Green Men is what they're, that's like on the box, yeah. Okay. So that's the claw. And you know, you guys have mentioned like there have already been a couple of, um, homages to other movies throughout this movie. And then a key one is, is Sid's House of Horrors and the, uh, the, the, the misfit toys, which is a, just a major homage to Todd Browning's freaks. I don't know if you guys have seen that 1932 film. But, um, in many cases, like beat, beat for beat, recreating certain sequences in that movie. That's the thing about Pixar. It's like, Pixar. It's like, Pixar. It's like, Pixar. is at once the most, arguably the most creative and consistent movie studio we've had since this movie came out, but it's also just so indebted to older movies. And they're so influenced by the movies of Steven Spielberg and George Lucas and, you know, the movies of the 1950s and the 1930s. They have this. You can sense that the people who are making them are as obsessed with these movies as we are, which is part of what makes them fun. Next most rewatchable scene,

Mrs. Nesbitt. I think you've had enough tea for today. Let's get you out of here, Buzz. Don't you get it? You see the hat? I am Mrs. Nesbett. Snap out of it, Buzz. Just a huge fan of this bit.

Good old Mrs. Nesbitt. That apron. Poor Buzz. He was broken right there. Literally and figuratively. Nice. Well done. Okay, my last suggestion is Woody and Buzz's race to catch up with the moving truck.

Which is obviously kind of the big finale of the movie and the movie. and the filmmakers have indicated in interviews that this whole sequence was inspired by the wrong trousers. Have you guys seen that animated movie? The 1993, British. No, never seen the wrong trousers? Now, I'm surprised by you.

Sounds great. Okay. It's incredible. So, what did I miss? I have a few more. Go. I love Buzz's arrival. Again, you could kind of debate whether that's even a separate thing

than the toys off the life. that as part of the first whole first kind of sequence. It feels a little isolated to me and I just, I just, I love the moment particularly when Woody, you know, is knocked off of his perch as Andy's favorite toy and the combination of his deep shame and anxiety and then the other toy's secondhand embarrassment. You know, you just, it really like crystallizes how their ecosystem works and then obviously everything about Buzz and the fish out of water. sequence. It's like the peeling of the onion because the toys are already in this universe that you don't totally understand how they function in it and then you have Buzz

one layer down and that and like the moment where he's circling them with his laser beam is just... Well, let's see. We got double A's. Watch yourself. Who goes there? Don't shoot. It's okay. Friends. Do you know these life forms? Yes. They're Andy's toys.

All right, everyone. You're clear to come up. I am Buzz Lightyear. Just wonderful. I like I'll say two things at once here. All of the SIDS sequences are probably my least favorite to revisit, but I do quite like his intro, like the moment when they're trying to convey to buzz why this is like a horror.

And he's, you mean that happy child? It's just so funny. And again, I think like subtle moments like that and the movie really do convey this, this persistent theme of perspective. and what somebody understands about the world and then when you might reach your own point of understanding.

But also, you know, the Woody Buzz dynamic is really building in a crucial way in that sequence. And I like, because it's on the heels of Buzz's arrival, that you quickly realize that Buzz is not the villain of the movie, right? That, like, Woody learning to embrace him and accept him into their world, that's actually, like, that's on Woody, and that's part of his growth.

Buzz did nothing wrong, and it's not his fault that he, he's there and Andy's excited about him and that Sid is going to be the one they're going to basically have to rally together to combat. So I love that. I think that you mentioned Mrs. Nesbitt, but

the sequence right before that Buzz learning that he's a toy is just crushing. Absolutely gut-wrenching. It's unbelievable. He sees his commercial on TV.

And then this seesaw. Not a flying toy. Get your buzz, let your action figure and Buzz. Light you. And then this seesaw of hope

and despair. You know, Sean, you love First Reform, that idea of hope and despair and existing inside of us at once, right?

That'd be an amazing double feature. Yeah, I would highly recommend starting with Toy Story and closing out of the night with First Reforms. That's the gamut.

But, you know, Buzz maintaining that conviction. and trying to fly. And then you mentioned Randy Newman, I think we'll talk about the music probably in what's age the best.

This is another absolute masterpiece. I will go sailing no more. And when that kicks in as Buzz is looking out at the window, like I don't want to come off as too hyperbolic and nutty here, but I honestly found myself thinking on this rewatch. It made me think of Luke and binary sunset in A New Hope. It's like, I just, I'm an easy mark and a sucker for a character looking longingly off into the horizon thinking about what they want and not being sure if they'll ever be able to attain it. I just thought, I love those kinds of sequences.

And the lyrics, you know, now I know exactly who I am and what I'm here for. And then when he takes off and you think for like a second that he might do it and then he falls and he breaks and it's just, devastating. I love that sequence so much. Shea, any other sequences you want to talk about? No, there were no none that were mentioned. If I'm picking my favorite one to rewatch, I think I have a different answer here than I do if I'm a kid,

or if I've never seen this movie before. I very much feel like when the movie starts and the first time you hear Randy Newman, singing and they're doing the whole montage with Andy and Woody. Like that's, that is, after knowing what I'm about to sit through, that's the most enjoyable part of the movie to me. You mentioned Ratatouille earlier. Remember when the guy bites the food and then he like is transported back immediately?

That's what happens here. Anton Ego. Yeah. That's what happens here when I hear Randy Newman start singing and then you're just like, this is going to be fucking. Totally. Great. Like I feel it immediately.

I knew this was going to be like the case. when I rewatched the movie for the podcast I asked my youngest son if you wanted to watch it with me we sat down and watched it and then afterward I asked him what his favorite scene was and his was when the toy scare sit he thought that was the funniest shit in the world he's like this is you gotta show him

Todd Browning's freaks now man he's gonna love it he was like that kid that kid deserved that he was a bad kid he deserved it so that was his another thing that stood out to me that I had totally forgot about as fucking how horny Mr. Potato Head is. He's just straight up, just trying to get a Mrs. Potato Head. Just trying to smash.

That's all he wants. That's why he's the angriest one at Woody the whole time. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Absolutely not. I think he was jealous of Woody and Bo Peep. And Bo Peep, yeah, for sure. Now, what about you? What's your most rewatchable scene?

It's either the opening for all the reasons that Shea just cited, just like totally instantly immersive and magical. but I think I'm going to go with with Buzz realizing he's a toy because the thing that sticks with me the most about the movie is ultimately the themes, you know, the growth and choice and identity and purpose and friendship and all of that I think really like really comes to the foreen in that, in that instant.

It's just beautiful. I love it. What about you, Sean? Those are heartwarming choices. I'll go with the second one that I suggested, which is the Woody and Buzz having. a show down stuck at the gas station. That's the one that I think makes me laugh

the most. It's just really funny. Okay, what's age the best? First and foremost, got to say, just the animation. This complete revolution and animation that I've talked about a couple of times already, and like Shea said, you looked at it and you were like, something is different here. And while it doesn't look as good as, say, Toy Story

Ford looks now for obvious reasons, this movie still looks incredible. I mean, you can show it to your son, Shea, and I imagine that he wasn't like, why does this look like shit? He didn't. And he'd it real quick, oh, the graphics in this are terrible. If we watch, like, one of those Shark Nato movies or something. He'll, like, let you know real quick.

This one, he did not say it one time, so I know that it's still good. We got to get a rewatchable Shark Nato with you and your son going. Shark Nato is outstanding. Outstanding. What else is age the best? I think Disney betting on Pixar. You know, Disney was at this interesting moment in their history where they were kind of just about to exit this golden age. you know, this little mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, the Lion King,

they're on this extraordinary run. There are some good, there are some good movies that came out in the mid-90s. There are a lot of, obviously, Moulon fans and Hercules fans and Tarzan and a couple of other movies. But that was kind of the end of that period. And Pixar really bridges the gap. And eventually Pixar is bought for billions of dollars by Disney in 2006. Other things that have aged the best, that indescribable attachment that children have to

their toys. Yes. I certainly was one of these kids. I was an action figure kid my whole life. I was so obsessed with my toys and these things. And you can see all these fucking Blu-rays behind me as we record this. I have that kind of relationship with these things now that I did with He-Man when I was six years old. But, you know, Shay, I specifically wanted to ask you, do your kids have the same investment in physical toys?

Or are they more driven by, like, screens and what we understand it be like with the things to distract children now? The older ones are more driven by screens. the younger one is still like if you take a he had a plate that he drew a face on and then you just carried that shit around for like two weeks. Like forky.

Like forky, exactly like turkey. Like that's why that was the most brilliant part of Toy Story 4. Like you just make a thing, you give it a name, Steve the plate, and then he fucking loved this thing. Just loved it.

He was a wreck when it was gone. Like it finally disappeared. But yeah, the kids still definitely get attached to that stuff. A thing that happened when the twins were younger, as we very intentionally, I was like, here's a buzz toy, here's a witty toy, that's all you can have, go nuts. Four years old where like your buzz for Halloween, you're witty for Halloween with little hats and everything. This year, this is

a little sidebar, but this year they're 13 and they were asking, they like, they do chores to earn money and they like buy their stuff off of wherever off the internet and they get shipped to the house and it's the thing that they do. And they were trying to get money fast. And so Laramie and I told them we pay them $100 if they recreated their costumes from when they were four. And they were like, are they argued with themselves for like two weeks? And then they decided, all right, cool. And so they had the whole outfit on again, but one Buzz, one Woody with the fucking Cowboy Hat and the spacesuit. It was great.

Did they change who was Bud and Woody? They were the exact same ones. And it just made me so happy. It was great. I think are you a buzzer or are you a Woody persist? You know, Mal, before I give you a chance to talk about your toys and I know you love toys as well. You know, my brother had a kid a couple of years ago, and my nephew is just probably my favorite person who's alive. He's just so, so cute.

One of the most painful parts of the pandemic is just not being able to spend any time with him. It sucks. But he is, for Christmas last year, we got him Disney Plus, and he has become a full-blown Toy Story convert. And he watches Toy Story all the time. And now anytime I'm, like, feeling like shit, I just buy him a Toy Story toy and send it to him. and like that is like it works like these things like it's amazing how a movie like this can can last for so long and make people happy for such a profound period of time and the objects around them you know if you're cynical you can say well this is you know corporatism at its worst and they've built all these toys out of this universe but on the other hand like it just makes him so happy to be holding buzz light year in his hands you know that's really that is powerful for young kids mal you you you're a young kid at heart how many toys do you have these days well i i just want to be clear that i i i i I expect you to give us your list of favorite childhood toys before we move on. We're not going to let you off the hook for that, but I'll give you some time to think it over

if you want. I think to that, that last beautiful and heartwarming point that you just made, Sean, that's one of the great sources of wonder in a story like this or in anything in life that's like a bridge across generations, right? Something that you not only share with your peers, but with your family members, who are older than you, who are younger than you, something that you'll then introduce to other people in your life later on. Like, one of my favorite books when I was a kid was Sam and the

Firefly, and I loved the story, but what I loved most about it was that I had my dad's copy from when he was a kid, and just knowing that was, like, the coolest part of it to me. And I, I, you know, with toys, I had a few stuffed animals that, I guess that's kind of like on the line with how you used a stuffed animal, if you used it as a toy to play with, or if it was more of like a companion, I think part of what I loved about stuffed animals was that they could function in both ways, right?

I had a Simba Lion King toy that I absolutely loved. I had a decent number of trolls. I used to love to give the trolls to cut their hair, to give them different hairstyles. Big year for you with trolls world tour. You must be rocking that frequently. That's right. That's totally my jam.

I liked, like, like, card games and board games a lot. Like, I'd love to play set, the card game set where you're identifying patterns. I loved to play mastermind. That was my favorite game to play when I was kid. And I let me tell you the thing I loved most about it. You're parodying yourself right now, Mallor. Just beating people, it's annihilating and embarrassing them by destroying them. That was my favorite part.

And then I think my favorite, my favorite overall toy was by a stuffed animal, a whale named Willie, who my parents got divorced when I was very young, Sean, as you know, and my dad gave me Willie when I was very, very young, and I just cherished him. And as I grew older and he, like, had little tears in him, I would stitch them up by hand and I cared for him as though he was my own and I loved him and I still do to this day. Willie, very special.

What about you guys? What were your favorite childhood toys? I also played a ton of video games. I should say that. And that's another thing being a child of divorce, right? Like I had a Nintendo at my mom's and then my dad got the Super Nintendo. You know how it goes? Wow.

Wow. What a charmed life you were leading. I was stuck with G.I. Joe's and Star Wars figures and like I said, He-Man. Stuck with Star Wars figures. Look at the, look behind me. I know. I see what you're doing back there.

Love a Star Wars action figure. I had a lot of like boy stuff. You know, I was in the comic books. I was into Star Wars. I was obviously into sports. But do your typical stuff. I mean, Shay, anything, what was one toy you were like, this is the most elite shit I had.

The most elite toy that I had, this is the dumbest thing. I, like, Sean, was a sports kid. So just, like, basketball, football, whatever. Like, that's all I was interested in. But one toy that I did get was not even really a toy. It was just a thing that I thought was cool. But my mom bought it for me from the flea market. And it was a ceramic skull with a soldier helmet on from, like, the Vietnam War or something.

But it was a piggy bank. And it was painted. it green and it was huge. It was like the size of a large man's actual head. And I thought this was like the coolest thing I had ever been given in my life. Shea, that is straight up terrifying. It was awesome. Other things that have aged the best, Randy Newman, who I mentioned, just an absolute lord who goes on to be a really important figure in the Pixar story and is one of the, you know, best living songwriters in this country. And eventually did win an Oscar for his work in the, I believe it was it for Toy Story 4.

That's when he finally won his Academy Award. I can't even remember what movie you. But not winning it for this one is, I want to ask you about this. You're a movie expert, you're an Oscar expert, and you're a music expert. Adam and I were having this discussion at home while we're watching these.

Is you've got a friend in me in the running for the best original song in movie history? I mean, it didn't win the Oscar in that year, but it's like iconic. Wow. Geez. In the running.

All I'm saying is in the running. Yeah, sure. It's in the running. It's a masterpiece. I mean, the fascinating thing about Pixar's decision to choose him is, you know, Randy Newman is known for this incredibly acidic and, you know, very literate and very cynical tone. You know, a lot of his songs are satirical or they kind of cut to the core of humanity. And he's an unlikely figure for.

story like this, which is very sweet and is very much about friendship. But there is, there are some dark undertones to the Toy Story story. And I think they made it like a really smart decision to have somebody who is not just this kind of treakly, kiddie, you know, over the top, like shiny, playing down to your audience kind of musician to write these songs. I think choosing him was very, very savvy on their part and indicates like what kind of a creative operation they have. Yeah, I think that the the songs are not actually purely saccharine, right? Like, they are simultaneously sledgehammers and kites. You know, they, they bowl you over with how sad they can be,

but then they can kind of, like, pull you up into the possibility that so much of the movie hinges on. And I don't know, the lyrics and the way that they're incorporated into the key moments of the plot are just perfect. And like Shay said, I think what I think Shay's point is, is in some ways the most important. You hear that first note and you're just there. You're just ported back right away.

That's incredible. It's an incredible achievement. Yeah, yeah. I think it's this song and Shallow from a Star is Born. There's your top two right there. Wow. Fight it out. Fight it out.

Incredible ringer core answer right there. Strong list. The other thing that is age the best and this is the last one I've got is, as you guys mentioned, this movie is 81 minutes and you just love to see it. You love to have a short film that you can watch in one sitting without having to worry about what's coming next. It really, it glides. The pacing is great.

You know, the other Toy Story movies are a little bit longer, but not that much longer, which I appreciate, too. Pixar in general has not overstuffed their movies over the years. So what did I forget? What's age the best? That was the one that I had, was the speed of the movie. What's really, to me, interesting about that aspect of it is the Lion King does a similar thing. When you sit down and it starts out and you have that big song at the beginning, you immediately think of like seven scenes in the movie that you know you're going to get to. Same thing with Toy Story.

You're like, okay, I know we're going to hit all of this stuff. And you don't realize how fast it's going to happen. You just get to the end of it. And it's really hard to do that in a movie and have it feel natural or like, you know what I'm saying? At some point, they were storyboarding it. And they're like, okay, we have to have this scene here and that scene here and this scene here. And they had to figure out a way to make this all feel like it was just sort of happening to them.

And that to me is the most impressive part. That's what I think that's what's aged the best. I, I'll spoil this. I have the runtime in what's aged the worst, but I'll, I know,

it's a hot pick. I'll get there in a second. The only other things I had on, on what, what's aged the best is just, you know, we've talked about it already, but just the themes of the movie,

you know, the themes of the story, which of course continue to evolve over the ensuing films. But, you know, like the coming of age story, but with that, that genius twist

that it's not just us. It's everything in our life, everything around us. You know, not just the fabric of our existence, but every thread in the fabric of our existence and getting you to think about life that way is incredible. You know, like we said earlier, choice, identity. Who are you? What is your purpose? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Can you change that? Does somebody else decide that for you? What happens when you win the power of the moment when you realize that you can make the choice to change something about your life? And again, you know, friendship, community growth, self-actualization. It's just, it's awesome.

And I'd say, you know, the other, thanks buddy. The other what's age of the best would be Sid's converse. You know, just a great pair of shoes on Sid. You know. Can't believe what a sneaker head you've turned into. Don't you think some once in a blue moon moments should happen more than once in a blue moon? You know, you don't get to see friends as much these days, but isn't it great to have them

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Company, Golden Colorado Ale. What's aged the worst? You know, Shea, I think you kind of addressed this, which was I wasn't sure if kids were still playing with toys in quite the same way. And it seems like they are. Fortnite has not completely won the war yet with young children's imaginations. I was going to make a Pizza Gate joke regarding Pizza Planet, but I'm not going to do that for the sanctity of our democracy. What else has age the worst besides Mallory's take that it's the runtime, which is wrong? Yeah, that's really bad.

That's really bad. All right, let me explain. Do you want to defend that first? I actually have in my notes, Shea and Sean will roast me for this. So I know that it's, I know that it's an unpopular opinion, but I just,

I think it's just about how I consume content in 2020. You know, an hour and 22 minutes, a few minutes of which are credits. Like, an hour and 15 minutes of a story is a television show. So I just, I just, I just wanted a little bit more. wanted to spend a little more time with the characters.

Again, I think that the fact that they're able to do so much so seamlessly and well in that time is obviously a credit to the vision and execution. But I just wanted a little more time there. Wanted a little more time there. Sorry. From the gal who brought you binge mode comes Toy Story is too short. An hour and 22 minutes is either an episode of TV or a very short binge mode. Okay. Let's go to casting what ifs because there's some really.

interesting ones here. Billy Crystal was originally offered the chance to voice Buzz Lightyear but declined. After seeing the finished film, he said the decision was the biggest mistake of his career. Upon learning this, John Laster telephoned Billy's House to offer him the role of Mike Wazowski in Monsters, Inc. Interesting sliding doors. I don't think he could have pulled it off. You don't. He's not rigid enough.

Tim Allen is like chin out, chest out. You believe it when you hear it. Billy Crystal can do a lot of things. That's not one of the things he can do. Okay, a couple more then to that point, Shea. Chevy Chase turned down Buzz Light Year. Could Chevy Chase have done it? I like that one.

I don't think so. I don't think so. Definitely. His corners are a little too rounded. Okay, what about, I've got more. What about Bill Murray? No. He's too snarky.

Mal just twitched. I mean, because Bill Murray can do anything. Come on. No, no way. There's no way. He can't do this. He can't very seriously deliver the line of your sad, strange little man. He couldn't have done it.

It would have come out so different. Okay. This one would not have aged well, but let's go back to 1995. What about Mel Gibson? Mel Gibson could have done it. 1995 Mel Gibson could have done this one. I thought so, too. I thought he would have been, I thought he would have worked.

He was braveheart. He's fucking William Wallace. He could do this. Okay. What about this one? Bruce Willis. That's the trickiest one. I'm going to go thumbs up,

but I do have some doubts because he gets a little bit too much inside of his own head when he's in the movies and I think maybe that could have happened here. Again, Tim Allen is perfect for this because he has to be able to shut everything else off except for his pursuit of outer space. And that's it.

And you have to treat this so seriously for it to work. But do you guys remember when Bruce Willis crushed the voice work and look who's talking? I mean, he really, he was ready for this. He was, I don't know if you're joking or not, but he was good. I'm not. He was dynamite. Okay.

There's one, I guess, kind of important wrinkle to casting what if's here, too, which is that Tim Allen has said in many interviews that Pixar originally wanted two different people for the two lead roles. He said that Pixar wanted Jim Carrey to voice Buzz Light Ear and Paul Newman to voice Woody, but they couldn't do to the low budget they were given for the film. Those casting choices were meant to represent how New Hollywood was taking. taking over old Hollywood, Newman and Carrie together. Obviously, Paul Newman went on to appear in Shay's beloved cars as Doc Hudson.

Jim Carrey and Paul Newman, Mal, what do you think? I mean, it's one of those things where, on the one hand, you never want to say no to Paul Newman in or as anything, right? True. So like a guiding principle in life and moviedom? Another one of my heroes. That's exactly right. But I think I've just spent way too much time with Tom Hanks' Woody to even conceive of anything else.

It's just like nothing else seems right or makes sense to me. But you're the Paul Newman head, so what do you think? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not a huge cars guy, but I think he's more well-cast as Doc. I like the idea of these guys being generationally similar. You know, I like the idea of Tim Allen and Tom Hanks essentially occupying the same space. And if you want to get really kind of pointy-headed about it, Tom Hanks as the pillar of American movies and Tim Allen as one of the, if not the biggest star on TV at that time.

Maybe Jerry Seinfeld, a couple of other people. But, you know, Home Improvement was a massive TV show. Massive. And that polarity between movies and TV and the kind of the new generation and the old generation, I think it works in that respect, too, outside of these two mediums. That said, Paul Newman should be in every movie. Paul Newman was the only name that could have come out of your mouth for casting what if that would have been like, oh, okay, I wouldn't have mind seeing that over Tom Hanks. With Buzz, I think there's like several actors that you could slide in there.

And it's like Robert Redford could do this. Denzel Washington could do this. But with Woody, it's got to be, it has to be, you know, like when you rub your fingers across the outside of a peach and there's that softness to it. It has to, the voice has to have that. Paul Newman's voice has that. I dig it. I had one other one that I thought was interesting. We're not a lot of what-ifs for the other characters in the film,

but apparently Rick Moranis was approached for Rex, and I felt like this would have been really good. Now, while Sean is great, but Rick Moranis is a legend. That would have been awesome. He could have done it. He could have done that. Sean, I saw, this falls into, I guess, half-ass internet research as well,

but I saw Jeremy Irons as Mr. Potato Head out there. Is that real? Or is that like an internet fever dream? I don't know. I like the idea of in 1995, Jeremy Irons choosing between Toy Story and Die Hard with a vengeance. You know, that's a perfect. So good. Recasting couch, I probably wouldn't recast anybody.

I feel like this is kind of perfect, but what do you guys think? I want Denzel as Buzz. I want to have it. I like that. It's a whole different movie. He fucking goes right over. Yeah. Okay.

I'm not mad at Denzel as Buzz. The Dion Waiters Award for the Biggest Tea Check. I'm going Don Rickles as Mr. Potato Head. I think that's a better idea. How about we don't? Potato Head. Did you all take stupid pills this morning? Have you forgotten what he did to Buzz?

And now you want to let him back over here? No, no, no, no, no, no. I think that's a great one. I would throw ham into the mix as well. Ham is John Ratzenberger? Yeah. And then of course John Ratsenberger goes on to voice, I think a character in, is it every single Pixar movie

or is it like north of 20 Pixar movies? His voice has been used. Almost everyone, if not all of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anybody else? Wallace Sean is Rex. Anybody else up for DeN. Waiter Shea?

I like that Mr. Potato Head. Okay. He's great. The Joey Pants. That guy award, I think it's all the same folks that we were mentioning here, Wallace Sean,

John Ratsenberger. I think Arley Ermi we got to throw in the mix here as the sergeant. Yeah, he's my pick for this one. Okay. Let me tell you.

let me tell you what happened when I was scanning the cast list for this. I got to, on IMDB, Eric von Detton, who voices Sid. And I literally shouted, that guy. Because when I was a kid, I used to watch Brink the skateboarding movie. He was like a teen heartthrob. And I used to watch that movie all the time. And I just was like, my mind was blown seeing that he had voiced Sid. So that's my pick.

Yeah, that's solid. That's a good one. That's a, what was he? Josh in the Princess Diaries. That's fucking guy. That's right. Did either of y'all see the Sonic the Hedgehog movie,

the most recent one? Yeah, I did. With Jim Carrey? Oh, man, Jim Carrey was great in that. I was just thinking about it when you mentioned him. I think he could have also done a buzz. Just based off of that, I just love, I just love Jim Carrey.

He had a solid Dr. Robotnik. I agree. The Vincent Hanna, Give me all you got! Award for Overacting. I wanted to throw out a potentially controversial choice here, but is Hank's overdoing it just a little bit in this movie? I don't think so, but also yes.

Okay, so let me answer your question with a question. Aren't they all and isn't that the point? Yeah, yeah, that's fair. Like, it's an exaggerated rendering of a certain type of existence. I would pick Wallace-Shahn as Rex, but again, to be clear, I adore it and I respect it, and I think it is intended to be that way, but Rex is so over the top that, that, that, that's my pick. Ah!

How you doing, Rex? Were you scared? Tell me honestly. I was close to being scared that time. Oh, I'm going for fearsome here, but I just don't feel it. I think I'm just coming off as annoying. Oh, hi, oh, hi, hi, Beau. I'll accept Rex.

That's fair. Um, okay, I'm going to give you guys just some half-ass internet research. I'll try to move through this quickly. Are we skipping the Brandy Booth Award for Outstanding Animal? performance? Oh, I guess who is it? What is Sid's dog's name? Scud.

Scud. Is Scud the winner? Well... How many Chewys does Scud get? I think we could make the case again for Rex here, because technically, you know, Rex is a dinosaur. So I think you could give Rex this honor, but of course... Disqualified.

Scud plays a pivotal role in the film. Whiskers, the cat, makes just a... auditory appearance. I have a, I have a whole speech coming about whiskers and unanswerable questions later, Steve,

and then of course we get Busters, barks at the end. You know, Buster plays a big role in the ensuing Toy Story movie, so it's a lot of animal action.

But, you know, Scud is like, I mean, he's Cid's number two. I'm going seven chewies for Scud. Is that a lot? What's the most number of chewis?

I honestly have no idea what this category mean, so let's just keep it moving. I'm going to go 8th. Half-Fest Internet Research As I mentioned, this movie was nominated for Best Original Screenplay. It's the first time an animated movie

has ever been nominated for this award, which is fascinating. Eat shit, Chris Ryan. Sorry. Whoa. Wow. Somebody had to say it on this pod. Thank you for doing so, Mal.

Sid Phillips is said to be inspired by a former Pixar employee of the same last name who is known to disassemble toys and use the parts to build bizarre creations. That's unsettling. This is a tough beat to have your colleagues put out

into the world. Sid is based on someone we worked with it. That's really rough. Tom Hanks recorded his dialogue during the breaks of Sleepless in Seattle and a league of their own. He didn't want to record his dialogue during the breaks of Philadelphia or Forrest Gump because he felt he shouldn't do comedic roles in between

minutes of playing serious roles. Wow. That's cool. The carpet in Sid's house has the same hexagonal pattern as the carpet in the Overlook Hotel from the Shining. This movie is riddled with little movie facts like that. What else? Hasbro denied Pixar the use of the name G.I. Joe when it was informed that a G.I. Joe doll was going to be blown up by Sid. The doomed action figure was thus referred to as combat Carl. The toolbox on top of the milk crate that Woody is trapped in is a Binford, which is the same type of toolbox that Tim Allen uses on Sholeman. Hell yeah.

Okay. What else? In full production toy story employed just 110 people. By comparison, the Lion King was made with 800 people. Fascinating. about the way that digital technology was able to streamline animation. Disney pushed hard for the film to be a musical like most animated features of the time, but Lassiter was against the idea. He felt it would work better as a buddy comedy. Eventually, he and Disney reached a compromise and that songs would play at key moments, but not be sung by the characters. Pixar wouldn't make a musical until Coco, 22 years later.

It's worth the wait. The toy shark wearing Woody's hat proclaims, look, I'm Woody. Howdy, howdy, howdy, howdy. This references a cowboy eating vulture in one of Gary Larson's The Far Side Daily comic strips from the early 80s.

Hey everyone, look at me, I'm a cowboy. Howdy, howdy, howdy. An early possible title for this film was You Are a Toy. Buzz Lightyear was originally going to be the name of Lunar Larry. Imagine this movie called You Are A Toy starring Lunar Larry.

No, but they named them after Buzz Aldrin, right? So they, you know, yeah, you got to honor Buzz. And then the Luxo Lambs, from Luxo Jr. The Pixar Short, which became the Pixar logo, can be seen on the desk in Andy's bedroom. Any other half-ass internet research

you guys spotted that you want to cite? I don't have any. I mean, there's a ton of them on the internet that you can just throw out. You could basically say anything about this movie. Oh, and the fourth minute of this movie, they pay homage to Harry and the Henderson's with it, whatever. You just do it.

It's so packed in there. We'll have to wait for the Harry and the Henderson's rewatchables. So picking Nets. Now, I have some questions about the logic of Toy Story. So Buzz doesn't think he's a toy. But how does he explain his inability to interact with Andy? Like, you know, obviously within the toys, when a human being comes into the room, they de-animate.

They can only be controlled by the humans. Now, I have other questions about that, too. but Buzz has this moment of crisis now that you've talked about so, so, so deeply, so thoughtfully. Wait, hold on, hold on, time on, time, time, time, time. Are they unable to come to life or do they, are they choosing to not come to life? Well, I don't know.

I always thought they were choosing not to. Because of what they do to Sid. Right, right. So they're choosing. But that's my point. Why would Buzz, who is a spaceman in his own mind, choose not to interact with Andy. Wait, hold on, hold on, though, actually.

Let's dig into this for a bit. Because the way they interact with Sid is different, right? It is different. Like, Woody is using his, I mean, he's saying different things than what's programmed into his voice. But his head rotates, but there's a different level of effectiveness

and, like, fully realized personification for the way that he is interacting with Sid. But obviously, all the toys make the choice to, yes, to behave. and act and animate themselves and show that they have personality and intention and agency, crucially agency,

in front of sit. It's less to me about how their faces are moving and how they sound, then are they revealing that they have free will and the capacity to act on their own? So,

why doesn't Buzz do that in front of Andy if he doesn't believe that he is a toy? That's a really good question. I guess our answer probably comes to us in Toy Story 3 with the, you know, the switch, the play mode, demo mode switch,

and this aspect of, again, self-actualization. Like, it's a process. The toys have to realize who they are. And, you know, one of the things that's different about Buzz and the other toys in Andy's room in this movie and thus as we meet them is that we don't see the first moment of Woody's life. But we know, for example,

from Toy Story 2 that he didn't know that he had a TV show, say, right? So even Woody, who we think of as this fully realized person toy, doesn't know his own history

completely. And so they are always learning. They are always evolving, just like people. And so that would be my answer, is that maybe there is something instinctual in Buzz's DNA as a toy that tells him

when the person comes in, you lie down, you power down. Maybe it's self-preservation, Maybe it's an understanding about the interactions of the universe, social norms. Right. So it's like a chameleon or an octopus that can change colors or something.

I'm going the other way here. I think it's a version of that, Mallory. But I think all that buzz is concerned with is getting back to outer space, fighting the d'orgs, whatever. So he's playing along just for the... Andy is not critical to that role. He doesn't have any reason to talk to him or interact with him. So he's just in camouflage mode.

that's why because he avoids all the other humans as well. He recognizes that they're there. They're running off through the Pizza Planet Place. He's doing all that stuff. He knows. But he doesn't worry about them one single percent because they don't have anything to do with where he's trying to go or what he's trying to do. Right. He thinks about threats and how to obscure himself.

Yeah. Under Pizza Planet, Disgarded Trash. I don't, I don't know if we have effectively responded to the. I answered it. I answered. Dekarshan nightmare that is toy story. You know, the notion of existence that bubbles to the surface in this movie. I thought you were going to ask a different question, actually.

I thought you were going to say basically like, okay, yes, it's the premise of the entire saga, and we have to suspend disbelief, but really nobody can see the toys ever moving around, running across the street, flying on a rocket, climbing in and out of windows. I thought that was going to be what you said. But I had my answer prepared for you if that was what you said. Were you going to say it's all a dream happening? happening in Andy's mind? No, it's like, it's of a piece with

how wizards explain why muggles can't see them going through platform nine and three quarters at Kings Cross or walking into the leaky cauldron. It's because they don't... Word, word, Shea. They don't take the time to look. It's an indictment of humanity.

People do not take the time to just observe what is around. them ever. I buy that. I buy that. I think that's a good take. And maybe as closely as we'll get answers the question. A couple of other nits to pick.

Why doesn't Andy realize he didn't bring Woody into Pizza Planet? Because he's a young one to the child. You take him to the car ride. This is a parent move. A kid wants to bring a toy. Bring it in the car, but you're not bringing it in pizza planet because you're going to fucking lose it. So leave it here.

That way it's here when you get back. Okay. That's interesting. How about this one? Can you order fireworks in the mail? All right. This is number one on my list. It's that easy to order an explosive in the mail in 95.

And if you're a child, like there's no, I mean, I guess... Yeah, definitely. I guess the mail probably helps in that way, right? In 2020, you can't. In 95, you can order whatever you wanted. Whatever you want. It didn't matter. It didn't matter at all.

What were you ordering? How do you know that? I was ordering all kind of shit out of the backs of magazines. There was like straight up, like, you ordered cherry bombs out of the backs of... Remember they had like a little cutout thing? You could get that stuff. It was like not that difficult. Mine.

Can't say I was doing that, I got to be honest. I was hanging out with He-Man at the time, as I recall. So someone raised this online, and I wanted to throw this one your way. Mal, you might actually have a logical answer for this. I'm not sure. I think it dovetails with the buzz question about his purpose and what he thinks his role is in the universe.

Woody's greatest fear is being abandoned by Andy. However, as we learn in Toy Story 2, he has a toy from the 1950s, meaning that he has been around for a long time. As such, there is no way that Andy is his first owner. Why doesn't Woody remember any of his previous owners and know that being abandoned is just part of being a toy? Okay.

We have the answer to this. This is because we hear Andy's mom say that Woody is a family toy, which means that even though Woody is focused very heavily on Andy specifically, he has, as we understand it, remained in the Davis family. And so that's going to be my answer. of the question. That gets to an unanswerable question, but that I'll wait, I'll wait to hit, but I'm glad you mentioned this because I think Andy's mom plays maybe an even more pivotal role than we realize. I think it's PTSD. I think he was just so hurt by it. He blocked it out.

And that what happened with Jess? It was just like activated a memory later on. Okay, so let's just do this now because this is my unanswerable question. I'm sorry to skip ahead of category. It's just so germane to what we were discussing. And it's just, It's also not about this movie. So I'm really fucking up here. I'm sorry. It's about Toy Story 2. Is Emily,

Jesse's original owner, Andy's mom? That's one of the theories on the internet. It's a great toy story theory. Because they never say your name during the movie. Right. And the fact that Andy's mom has said that Woody is a family toy, you know, what do we know from the whole bullseye, Jesse, prospector sequence in Toy Story 2 that they're a set.

Maybe that set was always in Andy's family. There you go. answered. We're cleaning up here in this category. This is why we do this show is to answer the big questions. Let's do best quote before we go into unanswerable questions. Was that in? You got more?

You always have like 5,000 picking nits, Mel. This is your specialty. A key editor trait. I don't have a lot of what's age of the worst or picking nests for this movie, which is, of course, a credit to the movie. You hit a lot of them already. Some of them are so, so petulant. I won't even bother with them.

But let's see. I will observe that, you know, you're supposed to root for the toys, right? They're the heroes of the movie. I am personally just appalled by the fact that we're supposed to accept that they tried to get Scud hit by a car in the climax. Like, they're just trying to kill a dog by running him into an intersection with moving traffic. I don't think they were trying to do that. I think they were just trying to escape. They're content with that outcome.

That's fine. All right. Here's another one for that sequence. If you're getting chased by a dog that's going to eat you alive in your head, it's you or the dog. All right. One of the reasons I don't have, you guys had this scene on your most rewatchable scenes. And one of the reasons I don't is because I think I have the most nitpicks for this,

the getting into the moving truck at the end. There's that one. I don't know what's wrong with me. Why I obsess over details like this. It drives me crazy that there's like nothing in the moving truck. There are a handful of boxes and like three pieces of furniture. I don't understand. They're packing up a house.

Where is everything? Also, I know that our toys are, again, they're persistent, they're inventive, they set a course, they figure it out, but they're fast enough to catch an actual moving truck initially, like when they're running after it and then the toy car before the battery dies. They can catch an actual vehicle now. I know the truck is going through a neighborhood, and so we can presume that it's going very, slowly and also there are stop signs, but that's a lot.

Some race cars go fast. There are some fast RC car, like 40, 50 miles an hour. Okay. Last one I'll throw out here and then we can move on. I don't buy the out the window Buzz You're a genius Woody sequence. That feels out of character for him.

Woody is figuring out plans always. Also, he threw Buzz out of window or he orchestrated a series of events that led to Buzz getting knocked out of a window. That's why they're there in the first place and it never occurred to him to try to exit

through the window or communicate with their house through the window when they spent all this time in their own house watching Sid's house. That bothers me. It's not a bad point. It's not a bad point. Anyway, great movie. Okay. My main thing I was thinking about when I was watching

this was I just wanted to know what Andy's mom said to Sid's mom, why he wasn't invite to the party? Because he was not there. That's an unanswerable question. He was not there. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch. As is their trending mango Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet,

snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Let's do best quote quickly because I have a couple of bigger unanswerable questions that I want us to talk about. Shea, I think you nailed the best one, which is you are a sad, strange little man and you have my pity. You are a sad, strange little man and you have my pity.

But I love all the interactions between Woody and Buzz, especially in the first half of the movie. All right, that's enough. Look, we're all very impressed with Andy's new toy. Toy. Toy. for whatever reason has always repeated the Mr. Potatoa headline. You uncultured swine. What are you looking at, you hockey puck?

Mr. Fantasy, I'd love you for that. That's a great one. I love that about you. So good. And I think this isn't flying. This is falling with style is iconic as well. There's a snake in my boot. It's the most repeatable one.

That's a good one. Great. I love a couple of the Rex ones because I love his anxiety. You know, he says I'm going to fearsome here. But I just don't feel it. I think I'm just coming off as annoying. And then at the end, when he says, great, now I have guilt. I also love when Buzz is in full Mrs. Nesbit mode.

And he says, one minute, you're defending the whole galaxy. And suddenly you find yourself sucking down Darjeeling with Marie Antoinette and her little sister. Sounds like a great way to spend an afternoon, to be honest. Okay. Could this work as a 10 episode Netflix show in 2020? I say no. Of course it could. Yeah.

I vote no as well. It's a movie. It has to be a movie. If you do 10 episodes, we're talking about 300 minutes now, that's too many minutes. It's too many minutes. I agree. The brevity is what's so brilliant. I love that 25 years later, we got Toy Story 4.

I want 5. I want 7. I want 12. Let's make this a movie franchise. That's what I'm doing. I was done at 3. After 3, I was like, I think we've hit all of the points. I like 4.

It's fine. But it felt like 3 was as good as it was going to get. get. And then when four came out, I was like, yeah, three was definitely as good as it was going to get. Okay, unanswerable questions. We've already pitched a couple. I'm reluctant to get into this because this could be a 30-minute conversation. But just a very straight up, can toys die? Yeah. Sure. Absolutely. Have you any child's play? They're out of here. They're out of here. Well, a non-battery operated toy, they can die. I mean, if they had fallen into the fire in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the,

trash dump in... Well, that's destroyed. Right? That's destroyed, but can you become inanimate, I guess, is my question. You think they're just in the atmosphere now? Like the fucking demon from fallen?

Just looking for a new body to go into. So you're talking about... You're talking about... This is very, like, existential here. Because you're almost talking about, like, can they, like, lose their souls? Yeah, but that's the huge part of the movie. I mean, that's really in many ways what the movie is about.

There's a toy heaven. That's that one... Tupac had a song about that toy heaven. Okay. Another unanswerable question. Is Buzz Lightyear this toy that we meet in this film mentally unwell? Or do all the Buzz Light Ears that come out of the box all believe they are Space Rangers? They all believe they're Space Rangers because we see it Al's Toy Barn when the other buzz replaces him for the mission that he's behaving exactly the same way as our Buzz initially was. Okay. Is Woody an asshole? No.

I like somebody watched Toy Story. They're like Buzz Light Years cool. Let's make small soldiers. And they just stole, they just have a bunch of Buzz Light Years all together. I like small soldiers. Me too.

It's awesome. I think that Woody is, I think Woody can be an asshole. Yes. But I think that's actually part of why, listen, hold on, listen. I think that's part of his charm and part of what makes him such a gripping character

because he's relatable. He's actually like a fully realized individual. He's not like to me if Woody was just always like sickly sweet you know, candy-coated goodness, that's not nearly as compelling. The fact that he struggles with his insecurities and that when he is in those moments

where he's combating his own doubt that often manifests in being a really ungenerous person, I find that like among the most successful executions in the movie. I agree that he is complicated in his emotions and that he's doing more than just being sweet. But I don't think anything he does allows him to be classified as an asshole.

I don't think there's one single thing. What about when he knocked the magic eight ball down the behind the desk? That was an accident. And then looked and said, wow, what if I knocked Buzz? out of the bedrooms to the Handy could never play with him.

He was in the middle of an existential crisis. We all have our struggles. It's about how you overcome them and Woody is able to. Good for him. I think if you can argue that somebody like had, they were temporarily insane and you can get them off on murder,

you could do that here with what he was, he was in the middle of a thing and he just wanted one last time with Andy. I think that's one of the lasting impacts of the movie. When you rewatch it, for me anyway, a thing that is to me interesting

when you revisit a movie you watch for the kid as you see it through like a whole different prison like when you watch this as a kid you're like oh man I hope Woody and Buzz make it back to Andy

like that's all you're thinking about really oh man isn't Sid crazy or wild that's all you're thinking about when you rewatch it as an adult you realize and you were talking about this earlier Mallory

like a thing that's driving them is they're all at all times worried about being discarded that's what makes the introduction of Buzz into the universe and to their sort of universe so compelling because Woody when he's doing his like whole town hall thing he's not worried about his position with the birthday party at all he's just trying to keep everybody else coming never crosses his mind that he could be replaced and then

Buzz shows up yeah but that's hubris and now he's having to deal with that that's hubris though right guys guys I've opened up a can of worms here I think you got it maybe we should anything wrong with saying that Woody can occasionally be an asshole all people can occasionally be assholes But he's not an asshole. Maybe he can be one, but he's not. That's what Sean said. Is Woody an asshole? That's a, that is the crucial distinction.

He is not an asshole, but he can behave like an asshole, occasionally, as we all can. Two more quick ones. Who hurts Sid? Okay. There are a lot of unanswerable questions for Sid. Let's spend a few minutes on Sid. But I think there are a lot of unanswerable questions about Sid's family life. Like, Shea informed us that it was.

super easy to order explosives in the mail in 1995. I accepted his logic because it was a, it seemed like an informed statement. However, I then have an unanswerable question about, you know, we hear Sid calling out to his mom, we hear his sister calling out to the mom, we see a foot in the recliner when Buzz sees his commercial, there is an adult in the home. Any checking up happening on what Sid is ordering in the mail. It's not like he's hiding his activity. He has a murder bench set up in his bedroom and is exploding things in the backyard. So that's just... This is a kid who knows he doesn't have to worry about that. You know what you can do? You can

look at the backyard and know, oh, some people live here who don't care about this. It's sad. That's all that you need. Yeah. But he does good. They do set them up to be the hero in Toy Story 3, which is great. He would we call, I mean, I guess it is heroic because we hate lots so. But certainly, I think you could say the fact that Sid is still torturing toys as an adult

means that he has not maybe evolved in the way that we hoped he would. I think he's doing all right. What do you guys think that Sid's years were like after this terrible sequence in his backyard where the toys came alive in front of him and he was terrified? It was a tough stretch.

Yeah, I think he probably got super into the band tool, you know, spent a lot of time listening to those records. Probably got really, he's probably a big Reddit user probably would be my guess. Okay. Best case, oh, go ahead, go ahead. Let's keep it moving.

I wanted to ask whether Bo Peep and Woody get it on, but that just seems inappropriate for this conversation. Well, I mean, they're, they're fucking up a storm in Toy Story 4. Jesus. At the end of it, at least. Okay.

Apex Mountain. So Tom Hanks said Wait, wait, wait, wait Okay, I had a bunch of unanswerable questions I'll skip them but I have to ask you this one, please. Okay. I have to ask about whiskers Because when

When the toys, they don't know that Buzz has gone off on this journey First to Pizza Planet, then eventually to SIDS, they are searching for him in the bushes. And Rex, we hear a cat meow and then Rex yells at whiskers for interfering with their search and rescue. So I found myself wondering who is Whiskers? Is Whiskers a neighborhood cat? Does Whiskers belong to another family on the street?

Is Whiskers perhaps a stray? Or is Whiskers actually the family cat? And then I went to see if Wiskers had a Toy Story Wiki. And Whiskers does have a toy story wiki. And apparently, there are some conflicting evidence online, but there's some people who think that Whiskers is the family's cat. and my question is if that's so, why don't we ever see Whiskers again?

Obviously, Buster I don't think it's a family cat. It can't be, right? It must just be a neighbor with a cat. They would have been accustomed to having pets in the house already. And especially because we see how they respond to the cat in Toy Story 4. It seems impossible that they could have been spending all this time with the cat. There's no way.

I'm going to be super real with you. I've never once thought about whiskers. So what's Whiskers life like on that street? Is whiskers okay? Yeah, he's just trying to be. to stay away from Sid is all he's doing. Okay, guys, Apex Mountain. Tom Hanks in 1995, let me give you some quick context on where he is at, okay?

He won his second Oscar for Forrest Gump at the beginning of the year. Apollo 13 and Toy Story are released within five months of each other. And in this year, in this year, he's filming that thing you do, which is his directorial debut. Wow. That's the money time of all money times. Is that the highest apex we've ever had in the history of this show? I will guess yes I don't know

The only other person you can compare him to is Denzel And I know you did Denzel Training Day Yeah But I don't think Denzel had this much stuff

going on at that particular time Okay So this is a historic Apex Mountain A couple of other Apex Mountain Questions for you Steve Jobs So Steve Jobs Executive produced this film

And at the same time He was on the brink of selling his next computer and returning to Apple to run Apple for a second time, which then shepherds in this extraordinary moment in technology where he develops the iPod and the iPhone and the iPad and the technology that we hold in our hands every day comes in this second wave.

And this is right when Jobs is about to burst. Yay or nay? Thumbs down from me. So just to be clear, though, with both Jobs and the Hank case, Hank's case, you're talking about the moment in time, not Toy Story specifically, right? Well, they're all connected, right? I mean, toys, I think the rise of Pixar, Jobs gets a ton of credit for that. And it's his relationship with Bob Eiger that leads to Pixar eventually being acquired in 2006.

And so, you know, I think the success of Toy Story and the system that they build at Pixar, he gets a lot of credit for. the same reason he gets a lot of credit for the development of the iPhone, for example, even though he was not a digital animator animating Toy Story. So, you know, a pretty pivotal moment here. Okay. Next, last one is this Apex Mountain for Toys. Oh, boy. Wow.

That, wow. Blear your mind. Oh, my God. Blue my mind. I'm going to vote, no. I'm going to vote the Apex Mountain for Toys was when. Robin Williams made toys. That's my pick.

That's my pick. I'm pro Robin Williams in all arguments. Another person whose voice could have been effective in this movie, by the way.

He would have been, he's been great in anything. He could do it all. Remember one hour photo? That's just, that's not appropriate for this pod. We're talking about toy story, Shay.

Okay, last category. Who won the movie? Mallory, who won the movie? Woody. Absolutely. Because as we discussed, even though as we discussed, every character has, on a sliding scale, some level of an epiphany or a surge of growth

and development, an emotional, spiritual journey, a literal journey in many cases, the entire Toy Story universe hinges on Woody's choices and Woody's growth and Woody's sense of self, how he understands his purpose in a given moment, what role he has for Andy, for the other toys, when he starts to realize, I mean, obviously at the end of Toy Story 4,

going way ahead that he can maybe live his own life at that point. It's actually all Woody's story, even though it has become this expanded, masterful universe, and it just doesn't work if you don't feel as invested in Woody's story as you ultimately do. Yeah, that feels exactly right.

All of the most emotional moments in the Toy Story franchise are coming off of Woody's beats for the most part. Or bulls-eyes. Yeah, it's got to be, it's got to be, it's got to be Woody here. Buzz makes a great run at it.

And it's hard when you're the second lead to overtake the first one. But he gets pretty, pretty close, but it's got to be Woody. Yeah. I agree. I think we have unanimity here. It has to be Woody.

Just to buzz is a close second here. You know, we haven't mentioned slink. Just want to say his name before the end of the pot. Slink is solid. I'm not mad at Slink. Any other toys you feel bad about not shouting out the RC car or anything else? Mr. Spell. Oh, yeah.

Mr. Spell was elite. Good heat check from Spell. Great work by the Etchusketch also in this movie. Got to say. Good call. That was hardcore when he drew it. Yeah. That was rough.

Yeah, but that was really under the cruel guiding hand of Mr. Potato Head, you know? That's my guy right there. He was not fucking playing around. He's trying to have sex and lynch people. That's all Mr. Potato Head was doing in Toy Story. That's an amazing place to stop this very fertile conversation about 1995's Toy Story. If you want to hear more of Mallory Rubin, you should listen to binge mode.

If you want to hear more of Shea Serrano, you should listen to the connection. What else, guys? What else do you want to pitch? If you want to hear more of Sean, you should listen to the big picture. That's it. This has been an amazingly deep conversation about an 82-minute film called Toy Story. Thanks so much, guys.