The Rewatchables - ‘Unforgiven’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: August 1, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey have killed everything that walks or crawls at one time or another, and now it’s time to rewatch Clint Eastwood’s Academy Award-winning classic ‘Unforgiven’, starring Clint Eastwood, Gene Hackman, and Morgan Freeman. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Pick up fees may apply. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where you can find the big picture with Sean Fennacy. What's the pod you do, Chris? It's called The Watch. Oh, the Watch. You're still breaking that out. I didn't realize.

You're getting ruder. It's nice. Don't let anybody tell you you couldn't get ruder. You can also find the Fantasy Football podcast with our producer, Craig Horlebeck. You cannot find the Bill Simmons podcast because I haven't been doing it

for the last couple weeks. It's coming back mid-August. Feels great. Nothing happening in sports. You can go listen to all the old ones. We have Bill Simmons, the interviews you can listen to that we cut seven years' interviews out. And it's pretty cool.

Did a little landing page. What's your favorite one ever? Favorite interview ever? Yeah. I mean, when we had PTA, that was pretty cool. That was a fun one. That was pretty cool. I think probably my favorite ever was the Charles Oakley one we did.

Only because we were in a hotel room in Cleveland, and he just started telling Charles Oakley stories for an hour. And at some point, it was just like, wow. Hanks was amazing, but that was on Zoom. Right. Zoom, it's like... I know, but he came with like four heater stories for you. Hanks was bringing it.

He was great. Had some great ones, though. Anyway, check all of those out. coming up on this podcast. Chris, remember that kid I shot in the mouth and his teeth went through the back of his head? Unforgiven is next. How about being my partner? Gonna kill a couple of no good cowboys?

For what? For cutting up a lady? It was a time when lawmen were killers. Outlaws were heroes. So you still have that Spencer rifle, huh? And a bad reputation. I've always been lucky when it comes to killing folks. Was as good as gold.

Pletyswood, Gene Hackman, Morgan Freeman, Richard Harris, Unforgiven. Rated R. starts Friday, August 7th. All right, Chris Ryan is here. Sean Fantasy is here. Chris Ryan is a known thief and murderer. He's a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition. We invited him anyway. The person who I have my closest disposition in this movie is definitely the guy who runs Greele's.

Skinny. Skinny. this movie came out 30 years ago it finally won Clint Eastwood and Oscar something that even he didn't think was really possible it was the 16th film that he directed he vowed that it would be his last Western I'll start with Chris on this one

this kind of ended the Western after this the Western became something else I'll say this my dad Clint's guy I don't know if we've ever had the full Clint rewatchables combo I don't think we have Not on Mike, no.

I'd spent my whole childhood. My dad would just have these westerns on and Jeremiah Johnson, and he would just watch these over and over again. So, Quint, I always knew him from that, Dirty Harry. Never really understood the directing career that was also happening simultaneously. But when Unforgiven, I remember we saw Pale Rider in the theater. It felt like that might be the last one. Then Unforgiven, Quint just puts the stake in it.

And our westerns ever the same after this, Chris. Well, can I flip it and just say, I think that this is the end of the anti-Western, or the end of the revisionist Western. I don't think you can really do a better version of the mythology of American violence on the frontier than this. So, like, I think you can still make entertaining

Westerns, and they have. There's been some here and there. Some of it's kind of... They've had a bent. It's a little like what happened with sports movies. Yeah. Where, like, around 13, 14 years ago, sports movies flipped. Right.

That used to be now Moneyball. And it's Warrior and the way back. And there had to be... It was a sports movie with the prism of something else. And in... And in this case, I almost would make the case that, like, Deadwood, you know, on HBO is like an incredible Western that came after and forgiven and that did things differently than any Western had done before, but is largely like an ensemble town political drama rather than like a gun-slinging Western, right? But this is kind of the end of a certain kind of Western story, I think.

I think also a generation of Western icons. Like there is, because, you know, Tombstone came out a few years after this movie. You know what I mean? It's like Tombstone is a kick-ass Western. We've done it on this show. It's a really fun movie. It feels a little more modern. The violence is a little bit more intense.

It's a little bit more like music video director style. But this is Clint, who's a part of basically phase two of the Italian and American Western story being like, this is my statement, my final statement on it. He did actually make a couple of more Westerns and depends on how you. feel like cry macho, which came out last year, which he made at the age of 90 years old. Skipped it. It is a Western. Very different from Unforgiven.

If Larry Bird and Magic, we're like, we're playing one-on-one today, I'm like, skipping. Would you though? I would. I would. I'd be like, I'm good, guys. If they were doing, like, the match, but basketball, you wouldn't watch it. Yeah, I'm skipping that. That's cry macho for me.

I call bullshit. Your mileage may vary on the late period Clint movies. I like some of them. I love the mule. I thought that was like one of the funniest movies of the year. But I think this is him kind of saying, you've seen me making these movies for almost 30 years. I want to make sure you know that I know that it's not about being a hero.

That that wasn't the point of these movies. And so even though we're probably going to always have westerns, they're like mystery stories, they're like romances. They're a great container for good stories. This does feel like him basically closing the book on this generation. My dad said this is his favorite Clint Western, which is like me naming my favorite Larry Bird Salt the game. He has outlawed Josie Wheels a close second.

That's my number two. Yeah. I think what's, at doing the research on this, I'd forgotten what a big deal it was that he won the Oscar. And this was a massive Oscars, which we'll talk about later. This was the 16th film he directed.

So Quince had this whole directing side of him that we were talking about Atani before we started the same thing. He just kind of like Otani. There's been some actors who have obviously directed and crossed over and things like that, but Clint was always doing this stuff simultaneously. Does he get the credit that maybe, like, if we were doing first take, would we be like, is Clint Eastwood the most underrated director ever? If we were doing the first take and we were in France, then yes.

Because like the French and, like, he's always been kind of regarded as this great director in Europe. But over here, I think people are like, oh, yeah, like one out of every six is good. You know, he kind of pops one out. but then like there's a bunch of crap in between. Yeah. Unusually he is a rise to the level of the material person a lot of the time. Yeah.

He has a great script. He has this like austere traditional style. You know, one take Clint is a thing. You've talked to Damon about that. You've talked to people about that over the years. Kind of modeled our podcasting style after him. I fucking love one take Clint.

Yeah. That's how I would be as a director. Like, come on guys, 15 minutes. Let's get this. Chris has probably got a lot of stuff to share about like the spare nature of this production and all productions where they're just like,

yeah, light over there. You know, like, it doesn't... And for guys like us who talk about, like, the very specific meticulous choices that filmmakers make, it kind of sounds like Clint just shows up every day and he's like, okay, let's get started. And then work for

four hours and then let's break. Yeah, it doesn't say action. Always comes in under budget and under-schedgel. Because he's an actor first, he understands... Maybe he had some directors who was like, why the fuck are we doing it this way? Yeah. Just let's come in. Let's finish the scene. This shouldn't... Why am I doing

40 takes of this? Yeah, I mean, and this one is is dedicated to people who really are responsible for making him a Western icon is dedicated to Sergio Leone, the Italian filmmaker, and to Don Siegel,

who directed him in tons of movies, some Westerns, some crime movies. And Segal in particular is like a real, no-nonsense guy. He's a real, like, we make our day,

we don't go over budget, and we make sure we know what we're trying to say with this movie. And that's like, that's Clint Toot. It's just so funny because it's Clint Eastwood.

I just wonder if, like, I was directing a movie and I just was like, after one take, I was like, you're good, you're good, you want to do another one? Like, Dave, be like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, are you going to direct this movie?

But Clint Eastwood walks up to him. He's like, you're good, right? Yeah. You're probably like, yeah, I think I nailed it. That's great. Why does your dad like him so much? Why is he his guy? My dad loves westerns and just saw all of them.

And, you know, we're talking to 70s. There was only not a lot of channels. There was always that one channel that would just be showing Westerns. And that was a huge programming thing back then. I think for me. a big TBS thing. Yeah, but even before you're talking about

the local stations, right? Like for us, it was Channel 38 and Channel 56 and they just show these movies. P-I-X and W-O-R in New York, yeah. For me, Clint, Bert, Newman, and Redford

just seemed like the four biggest stars in the world when I was a kid. And the Clint thing, it was the westerns that were always on, but then he also had the Dirty Harry, right?

But then he had the two movies with the monkey. Yes. Any which way but loose? Every which way but loose and any which way you can. Right. Every which way but loose is just him driving around with a monkey in a truck in a truck and just fighting dudes.

And there's no plot whatsoever. And it's amazing. It made like $200 million. It's him in a sleeveless t-shirt just going around. It's kind of awesome what we would go see back then. He's like Clint Eastwood's in a truck with a monkey? Shit. I'll see it twice.

He just felt like him and Bert specifically just felt like the biggest movie stars in the world. Like these big macho dudes that kind of. could be in an action film, they could be in a comedy like that, like, whatever it is, they could just fit in. So it's weird to think, like, his directing career, I mean, his first one was 1971. He's made somewhere between 43 and 45 movies that he's directed, depending on how you feel about, did he take over tightrope? Oh, right?

Stuff like that. Yeah. But I was like, I just wrote down the movies that I think were, like, considered to be big successes. And it was a way longer list than I thought. 1971, Play Misty for me. That movie is awesome. Yep. That's basically the first erotic thriller ever.

And that's one of those ones that in France, they're like, this is a masterpiece. Yeah. It's also a really... David Fincher saw that movie. Oh, yeah. It's a really cool movie, and it's basically fatal attraction, 16 years per fatal attraction. High Plains Drifter, Outlawed Josie Wheels, that's 70s. In the 80s, he had Pale Rider, Heartbreak, Ridge, and Bird.

In the 90s, he had Unforgiven, Perfect World, Bridges of Madison County, absolute power. I'm just giving you the best ones. in the 2000s, Mr. Griver, Million Dollar Baby, letters from Iwo Jima and Changeling, and Grand Torino, five. And then 2010's American Sniper and Sully. American Sniper made like, what,

half a million dollars? It's one of the biggest movies in the last 20 years. Soley was huge too. Those are like any director that would be a top 10 directing IMDB and it's not even, it's like a fucking afterthought with him. It's pretty crazy.

Yeah, and what's weirdest too is the near misses with him like midnight in the Garden of and evil, which was like a huge bestseller that he just like cranked out really quickly. Right. Like it's like, it's weird that like, he's so prolific and really

much more eclectic than he gets credit for. Or stuff like the mule that like Sean loved, other people didn't love. He has a lot of like polarizing ones. I mean, there's a huge like perfect world like fandom out there for people who think that's like the great. I mean, I love that movie. He simultaneously has

the most iconic movie parts, you know, like the good, the bad and the ugly, dirty hairy. And he made Unforgiven. He's the star of Unforgiven. These are movies that are like, they're going into the Hall of Fame of movies 100 years from now.

Yeah. But also, he's got like 10 cult classics, like total oddball movies that are really polarizing and divisive, but that, you know, great thinkers will find interesting things to appreciate also lots of movies

that just regular common moviegoers are like, oh, another kick-ass Clint Eastwood movie, I'm in. Like, the mule made $100 million. He's 88 years old. That's crazy. You know, like the fact that he's able to do that.

What's that what he made with Charlie Sheen, the rookie? The rookie. Yeah. He has a couple like kind of swings and misses with that. He made the rookie so, I think, so that he could make White Hunter Black Heart. That's right. Which is like an adaptation of a novel that's based on John Houston going to make the African queen. So like he's got these movies about Hollywood history.

He's got a two hour and 45 minute biopic of Charlie Parker. Like it's such a vast array. The coolest thing about him to me is how, you know, he comes out of the studio system. And I think that the amount of time he spent in Hollywood learning about how it works puts him in a position where he does the thing that I think basically like Coppola lost three fortunes trying to do, which is have this financial and creative independence with a studio partner in Warner Brothers. And it sounded like basically like they split the costs and Warner would distribute it. And he got to just go make the movies he wanted to make. So if he wanted to make Byrd with Forrest Whitaker, they were like, yeah, cool. We're glad to have that on our roster

They'll do it as long as you make the Deadpool If you make the fifth dirty Harry movie You can go make bird And that's like that's the dream The one for them one for me But they're actually like kind of the same thing You know? Right

He has some losses in the 70s and 80s There's some bad ones But there's also some ones like you said That some cult ones that people love I really like tightrope I think it's a good movie It's fucking weird Heartbreak Ridge like five or six times

Because it's just like It was just on for a while and I was like, this is actually a pretty good movie. It's hard to overstate what a big deal the Dirty Hara character was. You know, this is 70s and 80s. But I felt like one of the biggest movie characters ever. It launched this whole

vigilante era. I think it pushed him to another level. I think it's crucial for this pod, just to mention that a lot of the discourse around Unforgiven is about how like this is him reckoning with the man with no name and his Western persona.

I think it's as much about reckoning with dirty Harry. For sure. You know, and about like the sort of just thoughtless violence of some of those movies and how that kind of gets accounted for and unforgiving. So this is why I hated all the English majors in college and I would get frustrated with this stuff.

The Troy's from Reality Bites? Yeah, because I get the whole case, like this is Clint veering against the whole thing. There's also a case to be made that this script was around for 20 years. And that somebody said to Clint, wouldn't it be cool if you just did a Western that was there from the other one? It's going, yeah, let's do it.

And that was the amount of thought he put into it. Versus like, hey, big picture, I think I'm going to veer against my persona. Maybe he's just like, that's a good script. Let's do it. And that was all the thought he put into it. Well, he definitely does not speak on the record to that big idea. He doesn't say, I really wanted to make a revisionist Western to defy everything everybody thought about me for the last 30. Like, he's not, he doesn't get literal with these things.

And he rarely takes the bait when he's being interviewed. But Hackman does talk about it. That's true. And Hackman was like, I won't do this movie if we're just going to be gunning down people with no thought into like what it means. And I think that when I saw this movie in 1992 or when I seen it, like when I saw it after, you know, shortly after it came out. And as it was like in my younger life, I was like, this is a Clint Eastwood movie. I think this is a Gene Hackman movie now. Like, it's kind of crazy to rewatch it and just be like, this is like one of his great performances easily.

You wanted to ask her. Yeah, I know. But I don't think of it as a Gene Hackman movie. No, but I'm saying like, you're right. He's probably, I think people just think Eastwood wins the movie, but it's an Eastwood Hackman movie. Yeah. And you could argue Hackman should be best actor, not best supporting actor. He's certainly as many of the scenes as Clint.

It's almost even the amount of time. The middle part of the movie is Little Bill. Yeah. Well, Clint said he would never win an Oscar. This is a phenomenal quote. This is maybe what's age the word. Here are the three reasons Clint Eastwood said he's never going to win an Oscar. First, I'm not Jewish.

Secondly, I make too much money. Third, most importantly, because I don't give a fuck. Oh, God. I think I'm from a Playboy interview in the 70s. I mean, that's the other thing about Clint is like, you know. Yeah, he's out there. He's flinging it. He's a libertarian leader in the world.

Why do people talk like that to Playboy? Like, what is it? Is it? Nobody knew the screenshot error was coming in 1970. I know, but is it more because they're like, no one's going to read this. they're looking at the picture. Nobody's going to read my fucking law. We talked about it with the premier magazines

from the late 80s, early 90s. The quotes that they would give, you're like, why would anyone think this is a good idea? And it's there like, fuck it, I'll just say it. It'll be in a magazine. What do I care?

Well, I wonder if that quote, Clint, not necessarily world-renowned for his sense of humor, but I'm not saying it's a good joke, but I wonder if especially the first line is like pure joke. Like, I'm trying to ruffle feathers here.

And obviously, in the contemporary times, that would be considered in really poor taste. but you also can't tell when you pull something like that out of the context of what was probably like a 20,000 word interview as all those Playboy interviews were. I wonder if he's like,

I'm feeling my oats and what I'm going to do now is I'm going to fuck around with this journalist for the three hours that he's sitting in my living room. It was a big deal when this movie won an Oscar for him in the moment in 1993. I think he was one of the most famous people who made movies. I think his feeling that he was never going to get

an Oscar. I think he probably really did feel that way. And then this was a loaded Oscar here. I mean, Sean, you'll love this. Forty-five million people watched the Oscars that year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Think about that. What would get 45 million people now, other than like a UFO landing at 9 o'clock on ABC. We have a UFO landing. I don't even know that that gets to 45 million. So this one for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Supporting Actor, and Best Film Editing. This 1992... There are reasons why this was such a watched Oscars, though, because there are a few titles. Well, that's what I mean.

We had... So Unforgiven wins. We have the crying game question. That was a huge... Huge part of this. Yeah, supporting actor. Goldman writes about that in his book. What's he going to wear?

A few good men's in there, so we get all those people. We get the Cruz Nicholson. We got Sen of a Women, is Pacino finally going to get over the hump? Altman's nominated, which wasn't nothing. People thought he had a chance. Yep. Come back for him. And then, oh, the best supporting actor category was Hackman, Jay Davidson, Jack Nicholson,

Al Pacino and David Pamer. Pacino's nominated in both categories. We had the, my cousin Vinnie, Marissa Tomey. I mean, the 1990 movies, we'll go after the break, but just said this was like this Oscars run of 93, 94, 95 Oscars are unparalleled. This is my first memory of watching the Oscars was this year. I'm sure I'd watch them before that, but my first memory ever of an Oscars moment is the Mercer Tome win.

And it's not because Mercutomi won. I don't even know if I had seen my cousin. Yeah, the famous story. But it wasn't even the famous story because I didn't know enough about that. All I knew was that morning I read in Newsday that Joan Plowwright, who was an enchanted April, was tabbed to win this award. And I remember when she didn't win, I was like I was nine or ten years old

and this happened, the camera lingered on her face and she just looked mortified. She was like, I dragged my 65-year-old bones to this party so this young lady could go up there

in front of everybody. And maybe I'm misremembering it. It may not have happened that way, but I'll never forget that. And that is one of those things that got me hooked on the show. Do you remember any other cool,

cool tidbits from Newsday that day? Let's go down with the mess. Let's see. 93 things are really falling apart, right? host Vince Coleman, so things are not going well. Well, think about the speeches that year, because you had the Marissa Tome, you had Hackman, Gene, you had Clint Eastwood, and you had Al Pacino, all gave Oscar victory speeches.

Yeah, yeah. Danzel nominated from Malcolm X this year. Oh, that's right. I want to take a break and talk about all the 1992 movies, because I don't know if we've, I was just stunned writing all of them done. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic

or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Okay. So I'm not saying this was the greatest movie ever, but from a rewatchable standpoint and from just a pop culture, popcorn movie, big star standpoint, it's pretty high up there. These are just movies we've done on the rewatchables. Reservoir dogs, few good men, Basic Instinct, League of Their Own, The Bodyguard, White Men Can Jump, JFK, Boomerang, Father of the Bride, Last the Mohicans, Last Boy Scout, Juice and the Player, Now I'm Forgiven. And there's more left. Oh yeah.

These are other movies that came out that year. Cape Fear, singles, Wayne's World, Sister Act, Underseege, Patriot Games, Far and Away, Single Way, Female, Malcolm X, Grand Canyon, Mighty Ducks, Batman Returns, Candyman, My Girl, Buffy, Hook, school ties, husband and wives, Rush with Jason Patrick, Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross. And then some of the Oscar ones, like Howard's End, the player, the crying game, all that. Deep cover, Bad Lieutenant, one false move,

tons of movies. You go through the box office mojaday. There's like 70 movies I would watch tonight if you put them off for me. And Unforgiven stands alone and wins the best director. But it's such a great, they spread the wealth

in the Oscars. So the Unforgiven feels like it's the big winner and it takes down a bunch of awards, but they really like Howard's End wins a couple of things. Pacino wins. It just feels like it's well dispersed, right? It is, it's also Denzel should win.

It's... Yeah, right. But it's a critical moment where indie cinema incursion is happening. The 92 Sundance is the most important Sundance. That's the reservoir dog Sundance. That's when a whole new generation of filmmakers are really starting to hit.

That's when Spike Lee is fully come into his own with Malcolm X. And it's also where, you know, the 60s and 70s lions, the Clint Eastwoods, are still getting recognized now. It's like he was overdue in a way to get recognized. I do feel like Cable had a little bit of a piece of this because once the channels expanded,

like around 84, 85, and just way more content was on, So it was just all Could watch more movies You also had the premiere magazine And all that stuff The culture of it was different It just felt I was a senior in college in 92

And then I was in grad school in Boston I felt like I saw like every movie that year It's also worth mentioning about this Oscars Is that the show is pretty fun Because it was Crystal I mean like there was obviously like song and dance routines That you could skip or whatever But like there was a lot of like Jack Nicholson

Sitting in the front row Giving Crystal There's at least a small case that One of the reasons you love movies is right at the age when you're about to love whatever, movies were fucking awesome. Yeah, I think it's because there were so many different kinds of them. You know, like in a year like this,

which is, you know, in some ways, a conventional Oscar year. It's still a really, really good Oscar year. And what you were saying, Chris, about the show, too, is so interesting. So I rewatch Clint's acceptance of Best Picture. A handsome guy that Clint. Very handsome. And at the beginning of that clip, it's Billy Crystal, and he's introducing the presenter.

And this is what Billy Crystal says. He walks straight ahead. He looks into the camera and he says, Jack. And then he walks off stage and Jack Nicholson comes out. And Jack Nicholson, who is one of Clint's best friends in Hollywood, but they never worked together. And he gives him the best picture Oscar, and they have a nice moment together. And that was like a perfect fusion of this is the biggest entertainment industry complex in the world, but also it's just like a bunch of guys who are friends. And you could just call Jack Nicholson by one, his first name and the whole world would get what we meet.

Yeah. And he's in a few good men that year. So he's still really like dealing huge. Yeah. And you have it's the start of Hank's too in 92 because League of their own but Hank's about to go on the run he goes on really great times Philadelphia and forced out next two years for this stuff but man it was a great moment yeah I mean

you think like now it's trying to talk yourself into the fucking gray man on Netflix and be like what happened I honestly what happened you know what I thought of when I was rewatching Unforgiven is the power of the nap that was because I was like that is you know that is what Westerns are right now

I'm like I'm thinking of you watching Power of the Dog at home and being like, damn. This isn't the same. Yeah, we used to go to the movie 60 times a year pretty easily. At least. Yeah.

Well, you had, Unforgiven has the whole thing with Achilles that they kind of shamelessly semi ripped off, but I'm okay with it. A lot of things do. Yeah. I mean, it is one of the, but the Will Money versus Achilles is pretty good.

And so this movie was able, you grab all the Quint fans, you grab all the Western fans, but there's some smart, high-level stuff, so you're getting all, like, the tragic hero stuff. You're getting all the English majors. You're getting all the English majors. Can I tell you the theory that I also shared with Chris

last night about this movie? Yeah, let's hear. This is also... Thanks for wasting the pot on Chris than I before. Well, I had to run it by him. I had to run it by him. It's important for you, honestly. It's more important for you. Is this movie basically heat? Oh, interesting. Think about it.

You've got... So, you're saying, like, the theme of, I don't want to do this anymore. Uh-oh. I've been offended in some way now. I'm going to have to do this. Yeah. And the nobility of the bad guy versus the recklessness of the law, man.

Basically two sides of the same coin. I was going to, yeah, it's definitely that prototype. I was going to ask you guys if he was the first successful anti-hero that paved the way. We always asked us who was the first successful anti-hero. Because you could go back to the

70s and say it's like dirty Harry or Bronson and Death Wish, something like that. But in this case, they make real efforts to tell us what a horrible guy of this guy was. There's also like the juxtaposition of who money is with how beautiful the movie is in many passages of it. Not the like straight up darkness and shooting, but like, you know, like some of the riding across the landscape shots are just like as beautiful as it gets. The brothel shots are fucking awesome. And the music that Clint wrote, the Claudius theme, is like this beautiful romantic score. So you have that tension where it's not just like.

Like, some of like his other movies like High Plains Drifter or whatever. It's like, this is really gnarly. It's raw. Yeah. And then this one has a little bit of romance to the filmmaking. And even the opening, you know, that opening sequence where we get the kind of the title card and explains kind of money set up. And then that amazing shot that they repeat at the end of the film under the tree and the grave and everything. That's all like classical American storytelling.

Yeah. Like he's very much like setting the table for what you think will be like a little bit more of a romantic tone. The anti-hero thing is interesting because I feel like what part of the movie's messages is that there are no heroes. You know, like there is no such thing as nobility and murder. And I think that

seems like an important point that at least the screenwriter is trying to make. The problem is Clint, even when he's at his most violent and dangerous, there are times when I'm watching the movie where I don't even think William Money did any of the things that any of the characters

and even himself have done. Like I'm so with him and I think it was like a Bill Braskey situation where they made up stories Yeah, but that's the whole point of like the Beauchamp daggot scenes, right? Yeah. Is that like this English Bob character is all full of shit, you know?

And that like all the stuff that money is known for is basically hearsay. It's just like, oh, my uncle Pete told me that you did this. Now it might be true that at the end he's actually way worse than even anybody knows. Yeah. You know, and he's just like,

I am a killer of women and children and I've done much worse. But that's a fascinating idea that sort of kick around is like, what is he actually? Who is this guy actually? It's a good point, English, Chris. The script goes back to 76. It was developed under two titles, the William Money Killings and the Cuthorer Killings. The Cuthorer Killings probably tough poster.

Tough racehorse name for sure. Definitely didn't make it in the racehorse category. Eastwood remembers vaguely getting in the early 80s and wanted to do some other stuff and just kind of never got into it and then eventually got into it. I'm glad he waited because I do feel like it was the right age for him to be in the movie.

He also, there's a great bit in the research about Eastwood had a script reader like somebody who would just like look at all incoming stuff and I guess the script reader was like, yeah, this is bullshit, don't worry about it. And then years later he was like, no, I like it. Let's make unforgettable. And then, like, see what happens.

But it's like, that's a tough, tough bus to get backed up over. It's like the person who's coverage of unforgiven was, nah. Yeah, that's like the Knicks front office evaluating Donovan Mitchell back in the 2018 draft and being like, I think Frankie Smokes is really the way to go here. It's like me 10 years from now when new media is just overrunning old media and I'm on a ranch somewhere. Bill, we need you. There's been a trade. We need a smart podcast.

New media. The points are too terrible. Is it funny if you gotta save us? If Sean had been like, yeah, I don't really see it for Solek. You know, we all have misses, you know. Ben is not one of my misses. The cast of this movie, I'll just start with Clint Eastwood, go to Gene Hackman, then Morgan Freeman and Richard Harris.

Pretty good. Not bad. Pretty good. Solid. Four good actors, which makes it so weird that the casting choice of one of the other ones when you see those four together and then... Yeah. You get to The Schofield kid. The Schofield kid.

We have some casting couch suggestions. You get what they were thinking, though, right? Sure. You know that they were like, we're putting four authentic movie legends on screen. And Mark or Everoni. Well, then let's introduce a new voice, a new face.

I can make the case for that kid, though. Okay. Do you want me to do it now? Sure. Where could he have possibly won a scene? Like, where could that character's whole point is he's blind and a lot of, and a coward.

Except for the moment when he kills the guy in the toilet. So if you're like a young upcoming star... Well, Cane Phoenix would have done it? I'm not saying

people wouldn't have done it. I think they would have done it with Clint Eastwood, but it's almost like you go back to the Al Pacino stuff and once upon a time in Hollywood. It's like you want to play

like a fucking loser who gets, you know, absolutely dunked on by a 65-year-old guy... It's funny you say River Phoenix, though, because the person that I thought it was River Phoenix.

That was the person At that time, at that age. How about Leo? He could have done it too. He does quicken the dead like a couple years later. Chris, it's a fair point. The only scene though is the one when he like admits that he hasn't killed anybody. That's a huge part.

That's a huge moment. I think he has a couple moments. Maybe I can't uncouple the part from the performance that we have. You know what I mean? And I actually, he's a tough hang. But I think he does a good job. Sure. I mean, it's just, it's an obvious.

play a part, put a hat on and be a young brash guy. Like, we have 700 actors who would have crushed it. It's true. You take, like, Tom Cruise in 1983 and put him in that part, he would have been amazing. I don't know. Like, I was a starmate.

Missing snagletooth. Shoots a guy, he's like, I'm a goddamn animal! The Hackman piece to this, this is a nice little late prime Gene Hackman run. Yeah.

I mean, he wins the Oscar for this. He should have won for the firm. For Avery? It's the range performance in the firm. I love it. It all evened out.

Yeah. It all evened out. But he had, this is his second one, right? His second Oscar? Yeah. Yeah. French connection?

Yeah. Then he has this Gene Hackman run where he's crimson tied and basically goes all the way through enemy of the state and the replacements and then he disappears. But this is a surprisingly lively Gene Hackman decade.

And he's in a lot of rewatchable movies. Yeah. I love him in Gitcher. Shorty. He's fucking hilarious and gets shorty. I think this is well, I'll save it actually. I'm going to save that point. $14.4 million made

159.2. Our guy Raj. This is really interesting. Brutal. This might be the worst Raj moment. How many were almost up to 250 movies? This might be the number one biggest miss for him. Well, it's just like, it's almost like it's beyond belief.

You're like, well, how could you not like this? I just can't believe it. It's fascinating. Two and a half stars. He wrote, it's a kind of meandering picture that creates a world. It gives us sharply etched moments in it, surrounded by a somewhat shapeless atmosphere. On the whole, I did enjoy it. Oh, thanks. But I thought it had a few too many characters and was less organized than it might have been.

Then he did the Raj thing, where a few years later, he put it in the great movies list from the four-star review. Can I do this with some of my bad draft predictions? Yes, you can. Kyrie Irving, Derek Williams. No, actually, I meant Kyrie Irving should have gone first. Like, I don't know how you walk back the review you had. Yeah, but it's not, I don't think he's bending to the will of the people here. Or like, I think he probably legitimately went back to unforgiven.

It was like, I was wrong about this. He blamed it. What did he blame it on? Like, he was getting married. He wasn't focused enough on it. I don't, if so, that's interesting. I think that there's a distinction here that is a really. important, which is that for some, for a lot of critics, you don't always necessarily have to

agree with them, but you start to learn what their taste is. And a lot of times we pick on Ebert because he doesn't really get the kind of juvenile comedies that we love, right? Like, if you read his reviews of Tommy Boy, it's like, dog, come on, like, lighten up. This movie's hilarious. Comedy isn't, he overrated story. He loves story. Loves plot. That's true. Yeah. In this case, he clearly just missed it. Like, he just missed the movie. The review is, like, wrong. Like, his reading of the movie is wrong. He doesn't really understand what they're trying to

say with the film. And there were contemporaneous critics at the time who totally got it. Vincent Camby got it. Richard Corliss got it. If you read those reviews, they understood, this is a story about like the end of an era and that this is like how we see our heroes. So it's not like it was some mystery to other film critics at the time. Him and Siskel. Their review on TV of this movie is so weird. They both are just like, this movie was kind of boring. It was like they weren't in the mood for it. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder, I've talked to him about this. because Sean sees a lot of screenings and some of them are really well attended

like you'll go to like a movie like a couple of days before it comes out and it'll be like the full house and you'll kind of get the vibe but like sometimes critics see movies and it's like two or three other critics in the screening room and you're kind of like

there's no juice in this room you know like there's no energy about like whether or not people are enjoying themselves or not so you really are flying blind where you're like I kind of liked it but you don't necessarily know it's going to be unforgiven

and I remember seeing this in a theater and this was one of those It was kind of like Shawshake, kind of like a couple of others around them when you're like, I'll just, I'll sit here and wait for the next one to start. Like, I would watch this again right now. The ending is also just so electrifying. I don't know how you could watch the last 10 minutes of this movie and be like, it was kind of boring. That's such a weird take. In movie theater, too, is better.

I think on our TVs, especially if you're watching your living room and there's some light, like it's pretty dark the last 25 minutes. Movie theater is not dark. You can see every crevice of everything. I saw this with my dad and when we walked out it was like coming out of like a Celtics playoff win for my dad

and not even like a game three like a game seven he's just he almost needed to be hosed down he was like and it was the same way when we saw Pale Rider I remember we saw that in the Cape

and Pale Rider's not nearly as good as this movie but you know you go to a Clint Western you're like I really hope this is good and Pale Rider was good This movie was like, oh my God, what do we do now? Do you want to go talk about this? Is Clint ever going to make another Western again? There's so many storylines just coming out of him.

And then it was like, oh, my God, Hackman. I love the idea of your dad losing his mind over Clint, just gunning down, dude. Both of those movies and with him just blowing the shit out of everybody. My dad, well, my dad loves Shane too way back when, but my dad loves when the guy comes into the salon near the end. in its vengeance time. You're just going to get him every time. It's like one on nine. We just don't have that sports bars now.

Probably like you don't really settle arguments the same way. At Chrissy Shrimp in Sports, we'll have a lot of saloon shootouts. Well, Ebert, this is one of the big losses of his career. Great career. We pay tribute to him every podcast. I don't understand. There's a reason he's on every pot. We love him.

He's a hero, but this was a, he missed this one. Really weird. Most rewatchable scene. This is weird because the, Last hour of this movie is so much more rewatchable, but the first hour is so essential. So I don't want to skip over it. But I do like the second scene with him and Morgan Freeman when they're at the fire.

And I just love that washed up stuff. It's like, yeah, we ain't bad men no more. Shit, we're farmers. How long has it been since you fired a go to the man? Yeah, well, we ain't bad men no more. Shit, we're farmers. Should be easy killing him X's first

How long has it been since she fired a gun at a man will 9, 10 years? 11 Easy, huh? Well, I don't know that it was all that easy even back then We was young full of beans We didn't really have the Morgan Freeman History yet

Yeah He'd been in some stuff But he wasn't the Morgan Freeman We know now And that's one of the fun things about this movie is It's like, oh, cool, that's... Morgan Freeman is now on the stature for me with those guys. Speaking of everybody who was basically on like a crazy heater during this,

it's like Freeman is too. He has this and Shawshank in seven in four years. Yeah. Or three and a half years. Glory, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, Unforgiven, Shawshank Seven. Jesus. In a six-year period. Yeah.

And Street Smart, which was kind of his belated, you know, started late for him. Yeah. Not his fault. There's no fucking parts. When's lean on me? Is that earlier? Like 84. Yeah.

That fire scene is when he does those. Remember that time I shut the guy in the mouth? Steve was through the back of his head. It's fucking amazing. The next one is when English Bob meets a little Bill. It's a long time, Bob. Do you run out of Chinaman? Bill, Bill.

But I thought that you were dead. I see you've shaved your chin whiskers. I was tasting the soup two hours after ended. Well, actually, what I heard was that you fell off your horse, drunk, of course, and that you broke your bloody neck. I heard that one myself, Bob. Hell, I even thought I was dead. I found out it was just that I was in Nebraska. We established English Bob's full shit.

He thinks he can be full shit with Little Bill. We have no idea yet that Little Bill's... a good guy necessarily. Not an ideal sheriff. I think he's got some hard, fast rules for how he wants to govern his town. And he just completely dismantles. This is Tyson Spinks.

He just fucking kills him. I think there's like two scenes that come before this that are critical to leading to that moment. The first one is after the Delilah is cut and Little Bill shows up at the whorehouse. And does the like finds those guys? Yeah, and he finds them and Francis Fisher's character is so distraught

and angry at him. Let me tell you, come to spring, Skinny don't have those ponies. I'm going to come looking for him. You ain't even going to whip them? Well, I find them instead, Alice. For what they've done, Skinny, get some ponies, and that's it? That ain't fair, little Bill. That ain't fair.

We learn, like, the moral ambiguity is the whole point, right? It's like, what is someone's beauty and face worth is, like, a big idea right at the top of the movie. And then I love English Bob on the train. well sir again i don't wish to give offense when i suggest that this country should select a king or even a queen rather than a president one isn't that quick to shoot king or a queen the majesty of royalties after james garfield gets killed yeah like the queens versus the president yeah and then being full of shit yeah and then that great moment when hackman and bob have that moment and he's like he talking about queens again or you know and he like kicks him off the president

off the porch. Like those two On Independence Day? Yeah. And Saul Rubenek says to him, You stab me in the heart! I treated you like a son! English Bob's great.

Richard Harris, nice little late career run for him here. He's in a bunch of good stuff. I don't think he lived a soft life. Rich? He liked to drink. I think Rich had a couple cocktails. He likes to have a pop. Yeah.

He liked to drink. Didn't he come up as part of some crew when we were talking about Quint on Jaws, where there were like, there were like six guys. It's like Trevor Howard and Richard Howard. In 1978, you know. Just like staring each other down as they did shots. Yeah, just drink full pints of just gin.

Just raw kerosene. A huge fight about like the 1959 Premier League last day. Next one is little Bill explaining to Bochamp how to rate the best killers in that whole scene, which comes down to this, Chris Ryan. Three tips. just in case, you know, when you start to be in quick draw in saloons. Yeah.

Being cool headed under fire matters the most. Don't worry about having the quickest draw and always kill the best shooter first. This is exactly how you podcast. That's right. Literally the three rules to podcasting. Will Money ends up fucking burying this out at the end of the movie. Little Bill lays out the Will Money blueprint. Well, really goes first in that one.

That's like he makes a little bit of an allowance to show. Don't know not grilly. Skinny. The guy who owns Greeley's. He takes that guy out first for

putting a net outside. But yeah. But don't you think that was kind of the move to take out to take out skinny first? Because Skinny's probably

most likely all the other guys are just there to drink. They think everything's over. Skinny's got something to protect the bar. But he, I mean,

he's unarmed, though. I think it's more like just a warning shot that I'm not fucking around. Yeah. People are going to die right now. Clinton Delilah.

that scene's really good. That scene should be terrible and it's not. It's also got some great shot Gordo action going on that one. Oh, yeah. Her in the front with him in the back. Spit diopter, yeah. Yeah, I love that. Clint's kind of throwing it down in that scene.

It's impressive. Pulling some moves. Good actress. Never totally made it. Yeah. She's in the crow. Had a nice little run. I always think of her as the girl at the beginning of true romance.

Oh, yeah. It's funny. So this is how you know you had a good career because I always think of her as the fucking bad boys. The one that's kind of working for the other side. They don't realize it. She was good. Good career.

Will kills the first slasher when it's just like a Western god. They're like, wait a second. They can't fucking kill this guy. Ned can't even shoot. Schofield kids are a disaster. They're talking to each other as they're trying to murder him. Hey, can they have some water? It's the most non-Western Western.

I love how Davey, the guy gets shot is basically Will Ferrell and Austin Powers. He shot me! You can just get a towel. Slim. Slim, give me some water, please. I'm bleeding, Slim.

Give him a drink of water. God damn it. Give me a drink of water. Will you give him a drink of water for Christ's sake? We ain't gonna shoot. You ain't gonna shoot. No.

I'm badly hurt I'm badly burned you guys know first aid nobody nobody oh crap I'm badly burned I think it seems like that I think it seems like that

that make people want to do the English major thing right it's like this isn't about the greatest shot in the west from 100 yards away taking somebody out it's like it's kind of a shit show you know they're fumbling around and nobody can really figure how to do everything right. That scene's awesome.

That's for what it's worth, that's where I would have completely lost it with the Schofield kid. He was like, did you killed him? And I was just like, this guy's going to have a fucking accident. Yeah. Like, this is going to be like...

Someone's going over the roof. The, the Schofield kids versus murder. When... The toilet. Yeah. Outhouse. And he's like,

nah, he ain't gonna breathe again. That's one where I just wish we had a better actor. It's a good scene. It's well. written, whatever. It's a good scene, though. And then the ending.

Money killing everyone and deserves got nothing to do with it. Which is obviously the most rewatchable scene. The last 15 minutes of this movie are absolutely amazing. I don't deserve this. To die like this. I was building a house.

Deserves got nothing. I'll see you in hell while you money. First hour of this movie, you asked me does this movie mean anything to me? Do I care about it? And I was like, absolutely, I love it. Because in my head, I'm like, it's iconic. Best Picture winner, I got to care about it. And I'm rewatching it.

In the first 45 minutes, I was like, hmm, it's a little, it is a little slow. Maybe Ebert had a point, you know, it's kind of ambling along. You don't really, I had forgotten where it's, it was only when English Bob showed up that I was like, oh, yeah, I love this. And then English Bob goes away and you're like, okay, it's kind of taking its time. And then by the time, like you said earlier, get to the final 45 minutes and especially the final 15 minutes. I'm just like, this is up there with everything. Like, it is as good as. as someone has concluded

to build up to the end. It's all purposeful. Great stuff. It's just a, it's still, even now, like the way the last like half hour

once they tell, once he starts drinking whiskey when they tell him Ned's been killed and he just starts pounding rye or whatever. Like you're like, it's fucking long.

Yeah, right. That was like when I told you about the hardened trade. as I know they're getting him and Chris just like just drank this big whiskey That seems amazing Did they tell him about Markle Fultz and Jaliel Okafore

The mistakes we made We've talked about this in previous pods a couple times When things get blocked in a way Where as the viewer you always know where you are They do a really good job in this I have a real sense of like Where the outdoor is Walking in the Saloon

where the people are. And as it's turning around, I never get lost, you know, because there's a part of it where you're like, why there's 20 guys there, why didn't one of them shoot him? But it all makes sense that he doesn't get shot. Yeah.

I think it's hard to pull out. I think it's also like, it's supposed to be his mystique has entered the saloon too. Like, he literally, like, grows. He kills skinny. Steph Curry in game four. And he kills, he shoots Bill,

or like, I guess the gun doesn't go off, but he kills, shoots Bill first. And I think it's almost like he is a myth. figure. He has kind of become death and he is this avenging angel for Ned when he shoots Bill, it's like when Steph made one from the hash mark in game four, and the crowd was just dead at

that point. I really like the idea of the gun misfiring and then like an awkwardness after the big speech and then so he has to throw the gun at him. But then part of what it tells you is the fact that none of those guys are ready to act

and kill Will is confirmation that like none of these guys are badass. No, they're all pissing themselves when English Bob shows. They don't know. They're not for real. Like, and Will is one of the only, he's the only killer in the room aside from Little Bill. Well, he should arning himself if he was going to decorate his saloon with my friend. Fucking great writing.

So many great lines in this. So good. Who is the writer, David People's Web? David Webb People's. David Webb People. Sorry, David. Broke Blade Runner. Yeah.

I was building a house. Definitely one of the best screenwriters last 30 years. My bad. I was building a house. I don't deserve this. Deserves got nothing to do with it. I was building a house as one of my favorite lines in all movies.

It's everything. It would have been funny. I was like, I didn't realize you were building a house. My bad. Let me get a medic. I'm here to kill you, Little Bill, for what you did to Ned.

Something about Western dialogue where it's like very like not overwritten. She's very simple, concise. Kind of like a good Rob Mahoney NBA podcast. Just like nuts and bolts. Clear points.

Clear points. Good info. With some zip. Yep. Deserves got nothing to do with it. That's what... It's also like, it's a testament to how well calibrated his performances, which I think is probably underrated in respect to the whole movie where he's so stiff and wooden in

the beginning in the movie where he's just like, well, my Claudia cured me of all of my wickedness and all that stuff. And then at the end, he's like, I'm fucking back and I'm feeling it. And it's sad. But it's also like he's way better at. saying deserves got nothing to do with it, then he is explaining who he's become to the kid

in the beginning. Right. He knows more about what he's doing at the end than he does about hog farming. Yeah. Don't forget. All right,

I'm coming out. And he's like, if you take a shot at me, I'm not just going to kill you. I'm going to kill your wife. Yeah. Oh, man. It just sounds right coming out of his mouth.

Clint just has the, he's been saying dialogue like that for 30 years at this point. He knows how to do it. There's only a couple actors ever who were completely 100% convincing in a I don't want to fuck with that person way. And he's one of them. I don't know how long that list is. McQueen.

I wouldn't really want to fuck with. McQueen wasn't, Clint had the stature. Like, Clint, so what is he like, 6'4? Well, I wouldn't want to get into a car race with Steve McQueen, I guess. Yeah, I wouldn't want to do that. Who else on that? Richard Kind. Who else is on that list?

I don't know. in Dan Loria. My son and I were watching Deliverance, which is on Netflix. It's fun father-son bonding experience. We got off before the rape, because we're about an hour in bed and bed goes, is this a movie with the rapist?

I'm not watching this. He stormed off. But Bert in that movie with the just ultimate, like, former football bar macho, you felt like he could take care of whatever business. Stallone in First Blood. Billy Bear and Predator. Billy Bear.

Yeah. Billy Bear in 48 hours. He's like, how are they going to kill this guy? We never see Billy Bear dying Predator, do we? Yeah, well, he hears it. And he draws him out. And he gets his spine ripped out. Oh, right, we see that.

I forgot about that. That's when he died. I like that part. And the spine got ripped out. Yeah, Clint, though. He lived though. I forgot what the Predator is like caressing his skull. You remember that?

Right after he pulls it. That's a great. I just watched Predator. I love that movie. Craig, have you seen Every Which Way But Loose? You should watch it. I don't know if it's a rewatchable because I feel like... Smoking it.

No, it's like a bare-knuckle fighting. He just kind of drives around as bare-knuckle fights with people, and he's got an orangutan as his passenger. It's how you spend every weekend. He just fights people. It's a completely inexplicable movie. I don't understand how it was made, but it made enough that they did a sequel.

And at the same time, Bert Reynolds was making the Smokey in the Bandit movies where he's just driving around a car for no reason. And that was the movie. He's got a trucker behind him. That was just the late 70s. It was just like, let's put stars in movies. The plot doesn't even matter.

Just throw these guys in there. Yeah, it's post-Vietnam. I just want to relax, man. You know, don't make me work so hard. I just want to have a fun time with the guys I like. We don't have those movies, though. We don't even have those TV shows now. Like, there aren't that many, like, hangout TV shows.

Yeah. How's your script about trauma coming, by the way? I'm a cop, but I actually have to work through my own issues before I can solve the case. That's not a good, good show. We'll take a break and we'll do what's age the best. What's age the best? Westerns.

Love them. Fucking great. Yeah. Great stuff. They'll never get old. They'll keep making weirder ones, but the whole premise of going back in time. I think one of the cool things about Westerns for the rewatchables is it's just frozen in the moment.

so in a weird way it doesn't feel dated. Whereas you watch like 16 candles, it's like, Jesus, this feels like it was 130 years ago. This felt like a pretty appropriate movie to do after there will be blood too, because this is like right before everything that happens in there. It's like 1880s in Wyoming and Missouri and all these places.

And it feels like it's related, you know, like a period piece like this. Too bad we never got a money, Plainview dinner scene. Well, and we know money moved to California. I know. Dry goods. What are you a farmer? I think I'm probably more of a Beauchamp, you know.

Traveling with English Bob? Yeah. What about you, Sean? Just so we're clear, Chris called himself a pissing himself coward just now. I'm probably a skinny, you know? Just running an establishment of some kind. Yeah, I can see you as. an absolutely like inveterate gambler.

And then one day you get killed for hiding an ace up your sleeve. I'm not a cheater. I know. I'm not a cheater. I also think I would hopefully be running the slum. Yeah, that sounds a great job. That sounds fun. Every once in a while it gets a little rowdy. Yeah, you were a bartender. Yeah. I think I could have. We wouldn't really have. Are there sports in 1880s? We wouldn't have like a lot of boxing. All this career planning is like most people just died when they were like 30. So it's just, you wouldn't have to worry too much about it.

I would have terrible eyesight, so I probably would have had a job where I'd never lost my glasses, where I was never in risk of... Right. Honestly, you know... Maybe I'm running a pharmacy. I just definitely would have been building the railroads. There's, given my providence, you know, there's a 0% chance I was a landowner. You know, I just would have been an Irish guy laying track. Yeah, you're probably laying track and then getting bombed in the saloon.

Oh, yeah. As Chris writes about English bob. Yeah, I was just like, Irish Sean got drunk again tonight. But that's the thing is, it's just like, you wouldn't be like, hey, man, so what's your five-year plan? What do you think? It's like not getting cholera. How about that? I didn't get a review for my manager this year.

Why did that happen? What happened to Bob? He got the clap and die. There was no pedicillium. We don't have any medicine. Yeah. Morwood's stage the best. Phenomenal premise, which we covered.

But the premise of this movie is just really good. The leanness of it. Yeah, and just like, this guy doesn't want to do this anymore, but now he's been triggered and he's going to do it again. Revenge. How about a town called Big Whiskey? Yeah. not to put too fine a point on it great job by Webb David Peoples

David Webb People's I know I got it Poor Webb I like that name I love big whiskey Back then we were young And full of beans

I'm gonna say that every once in a while I'm gonna work that And it's full of beans into my Opening line of the Grayland documentary Back when you used to write about Antoine Walker Yeah full of beans yeah sheriffs have aged the best for me.

I like any TV or movie where the sheriff has this outsized power for no reason whatsoever. It's always a good pop culture. Like is there a mayor of big whiskey? No. Yeah. The sheriff just,

whatever he decides, it could be as irrational as possible. He's the only person I would say has power like this now would be a fantasy football commissioner. Where the person is, I veto that trade. And they're like, oh. I'm trying to think of what's a real,

like a real life. sports equivalent, you know. It's like it's Sean McVey. With murder. Is there any world or no? I mean, Belichick? Isn't that kind of how Belichick runs the Patriots? Yeah, maybe.

Bochamp symbolizing Eastwood's hatred for writers. Journalists especially. Yeah, nobody hates the media more than Clint out of any great actor we've had. And it's just funny that Bochamp has him, you know he added the peeing in the pants. Sure. No question. He was like, Clint's like, I got an idea. he made Richard Jewel for this exact reason.

He does this over and over again. When English Bob leaves and he's cursing, I don't know if you pick this up, English, Chris. He switches to a lower class cockney accent. Yeah, because he's been putting on airs, right? Yeah. Yeah. So choice Richard Harris.

Yeah. He was all excited about it. Just a bunch of savages? Got no morals! You mentioned the score, which was composed by Clint Eastwood. And Lenny Nehoushouse. but Clint did the guitar part one. And then,

last what's age the best for me is the era when you could just leave your kids alone for three weeks. I'll see you guys later. We could go into what's age of the worst for me if you want. Those kids are pretty young.

Yeah, can you guys feed the pets? I should be back, you know, three weeks from now. Just, I charge your iPad. I'll see you later. The look on those kids' face when he's just like, I used to be very cruel to animals and now your dear departed mock,

cured me of that and they're like, you're leaving us for a month? We don't care that you used to be mean to pigs. Like, where the fuck are you going? That kid's like nine. He's like, not a babysitter. Yeah, it's pretty tough. Growing fast back then. What else do you have for?

What stage is the best? Changing the title. I think it's Clint who named it Unforgiven. It's one of the great movie titles of all time. And one of the great ways to sell against the image of Clint Eastwood is like Clint Eastwood starring in a movie called

unforgiven, this is going to kick ass. And if this movie was called the killings of William Money, it'd be like a grind house movie, you know? It wouldn't have the same... Crazy nights and big whiskey. Yeah. Yeah, big whiskey with Clooney's... You're right. When

just hearing that this movie was being made, Clint Eastwood's making a western called Unforgiven. And like, and where's my money? I don't even know what it is coming up. I'm just sitting in the theater now. You let me know what it's out. Here's $20. Any what stage is best for you? I mean, we kind of have already talked about it, but I would just say that the Hackman performance

is, like, actually grown in my estimation in the years. And I think that there's a modernity to the way he's performing compared to the way Clint is that really, like, makes the movie kind of sing still. Like, all the little Bill stuff with Beauchamp and the prison and in his house and all those monologues he's doing where he's just, like, telling him stories. It's just really kind of like the heartbeat of the movie.

I think if it's just money, like, by a fire being like, I used to be a good man or a bad man, and now I'm a good man. It's just like, it gets a little bit repetitive, but daggett kind of like, I don't know, I love the fact that those two characters are essentially, like, they both think that they're redeemed. Like, money thinks that by, like, farming pigs

and taking care of these kids and living in the middle of nowhere, he's atoning for what he did. And little Bill is like, I'm going to bring, like, modernity to this town. We're not going to have any guns. We're not going to have, like, a growing society here. And I'm going to build my house. And I deserve this and like it's kind of an interesting idea of like what do you do to like a tone for your past?

I think it's an important hackman piece of the hackman puzzle. You look at all this stuff he's done. What's weird is he's the bad guy in Superman obviously. But for the most part, I mean that was a you know comic book movie basically. Wasn't really until no way out, which is 1987 that he kind of dipped into this. this either evil Gene Hackman or up to something Gene Hackman or just bad guy Gene Hackman. Because then after that, he's got this. The firm, like that guy's sort of a bad guy.

Crimson Tide, obviously, where we did that one in the rewatchables, that guy's not, I wouldn't call him a good guy. No. Very similar part to this one. Yeah, but he was very good at that. This guy's a fucking asshole and a bad guy, but I still like watching him. Which is a hard place to get to. But not unlike his firm character, I think is not without his redeeming qualities. Yep.

So it's not, it's not like straight up like Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs or something. He's got like a humanity to him. Royal Tenenbaum and the Royal Tenenbaum is the same way. He's a shit father who wasn't there for his kids. But when you're watching the movie, you're like, God, I love Gene Hackman. You know, that's a great movie star stuff. What do you have for the Big Gahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food or Drink? I had when Will...

Eat a lot. Well, I like when Will takes the shot mid-massacre. That's good. That's the one. Three or four killings in. He's like, hold on. That's really good. What is this?

Is this bullet? Was this bullet? Were they making a bullet in 1880s? The Denna Thieves Benihanna Award for scenes dealing location. Clearly Greeley's saloon. The billiards. Yeah. Yeah.

The word saloon might need to come back. I'm not sure why it went away. Billy Saloon. Chris's shrimp in sports Saloon. That sounds like a cool place. Yeah. And you walk in through

like the wooden slat doors but then it's just a wall of TV Craig, you could change the fantasy football pod to the fantasy football saloon. I'm in. Just see how it goes. It'd be great.

What do you got for a great shot Gordo a word, Chris? I had the deep focus shot of Delilah sitting in front and hearing the story and like realizing that he's talking about his wife and that's got that great moment

where Francis Fisher's like he ain't got no wife. not one above the ground. That was the first time since we've had this award that as I was watching the movie, I clearly, I was like, oh, great shot, Cordoba. So it's really a bad award's taken off. This is Jack Green, but it looks like it could be Gordo.

It's dark. Especially in the last 20 minutes. It's really dark. It's hard to even see his face. Butch's girlfriend Award for the weak link of the film. The Schofield Kid actor, I think, would be my winner. What's the name James Wolvet? Spell is kind of funky, though.

Tough IMDB. He didn't go on to greatness. Quickly moving into like... He's definitely hitting 15 seconds ahead on this pod right now. This kid's like, fuck. My favorite pod's doing my movie! Shit. He's also in What's Age the Worst?

James Wolvert's IMDB for What's Age the Worst? Ebert's review we mentioned. Here's another. what's aged worse for me. Ned, don't leave your

fucking wingman. Stay with the herd. You have your team. Don't ride off by yourself. Only bad things can happen. They're looking for all you anyway. I get it what he's doing, but it is a heat-checky move

to just be like, I'm gonna buggy out of here, man. Yeah, I didn't like it. Not a lot of thought put into that one by Ned. I'll never do that to you. I appreciate that. I can't make the same promise. I'll never make you kill a bar full of men without me

So the question is Is if any one of us was Captured Yeah Would you have told the whole story of who Bill Simmons is Or who I am To the little Bill that has captured you Yeah I didn't like that either

Let's game this out a little bit Ned should have kept his mouth fucking shut That's what I'm saying I don't say shit about who I am Are we sure Ned was good? No wait a second it. This isn't like a, this isn't like a, what is the downside of saying like my friend William money is going to bust your ass. Because then you know what to expect. Like it's William Money is

lucky he got out of there alive because little Bill knew who he was. You want the element of surprise when you're going into gun. Oh and he's like, oh here comes this dickhead hender shot who I've already like tooled up once. They never would have cared about that. Yeah. Now it all worked out. Ned may he rest in peace. And I'm just saying. Bad job by Ned. Okay. Don't, don't give him any information. Don't be like, it's the Boston sports guy. This was in the research. I don't know if this was true,

but the film was planned to be used as the theme for Six Flags, Great Adventures. Yes. Rollercoaster. There is a website that looks pretty legitimate in the sense that it looks like it was built around the time at this movie. They were going to call the roller coaster,

I'm forgiven. And everyone's like, no, don't do that. He murders everyone at the end of the movie. They changed it to Viper. Do a bunch of prostitutes greet you as you get on the ride? And you're like, ready to do some killing? I do like Viper. It's a good roller coaster.

The other choice was the cut horror killings, but they decided the roller coaster wouldn't really work. That's actually, CR has a whole amusement park plan built around that. Are you a roller coaster guy? Oh, yeah. My back isn't anymore. But that was like my all-time back when I was physically healthy enough to do the roller coaster without feeling. like my spine was going to come out of my body. Like you were going to get Billy Baird?

Yeah. Like I do it now and I feel like I'm going to be like a paraplegic when I get out. Oh man. But in the teens and 20s, oh my God, that's everything I wanted. All I wanted to do is be near death with experiences like that. Interesting. All I wanted was to be near death. Well, you're talking about a guy.

I was driving like 110 miles an hour in the Mara Parkway. Like, I'm fucking crazy. I'm not proud of it. I'm just telling you what I was like. Yeah. Your honesty is I'm proud of it for you I love it

It's all part of your myth You're like William Money Went 116 on the merit once Car from the late 80s It's no small feet You know it's not a good idea Is when you're going 16 to look at the odometer

To check how fast you're going That's not the move It was shaking Yeah cars back then When you would get up around 100 They'd be like What the fuck are you going Yeah way is there now

The Vincent Chase Award We're pulling back For the Are we sure this character was actually good at his job. So, the sheriff, I'm just going to throw him out, but I actually think for the most

part, I'm going to defend the sheriff's mantra. A little girl. I ran the town later. Okay. The saloon owner. We sure he was good at his job. What part? Just all of it.

Being a pimp or the bartending? I mean, terrible at running the brothel. It seemed like he, anybody could just walk in the bar and start shooting anybody. He wasn't armed. Like, I'm definitely having a gun. That guy...

Do you not have a gun in the town? The whole point is that there's not supposed to be any guns in the town. The saloon guy should have some sort of secret piece just in case. It's a fair point. I just had one more from the guy who ran grilles. I think he did a very poor job. Where were the chicken fingers? If I was skinny,

what I would do is probably... No TVs. I would get the one-armed deputy sheriff to, like, moonlight for me. You know, just like maybe a... Do Do Door. You know, check IDs. coming in, make sure nobody's got a hideaway piece, make sure William Money isn't coming in. No metal detector. No.

He just needed to have a much stronger relationship with Strawberry Alice, you know, Francis Fisher. He needed to have that under- He should be more of a collaboration. Strawberry Alice was awesome. That's an ally for him, and he fucked that up. I was going to mention that you love redheads and your daughter's named Alice,

and there's a head of the brothels named Strawberry Alice. I just thought that was weird. I was going to leave that over here. There's an 89% chance that, his hair will be strawberry blonde. So we won't be showing her unforgiving. Because Francis Fisher's character is a horror. Ron Burgundy Flute Award for Best Time for a P-break.

I mean, honestly, you could pick any time in the first 20 minutes. You're probably safe. I actually had a really, I really worth this out. It's a little slow. A couple stretches there. You're not missing much. I have some... I think the whole money having a fever getting his ass kicked and then being

sleep is a good time to like make a Sunday. That's a good one. Make a Sunday. Or whatever you want to do. Okay. Maybe a quick Starbucks run. Pretty huge difference between pee break and making a Sunday. Well, it's a little bit longer, unless you have like a bladder infection. I think that's a pretty long piss. But like if you... Peep break and poop break. Or yeah. Poop. Poop break. That would be a solid

solid segment of the film. Sponsored by Sherman. Was there a better title for this movie? kind of, it's definitely unforgiven is better than the other ones. Yeah, whores gold, I don't feel like, would really work.

No. Probably not on the poster. Unforgiven, it's perfect. Best quote, either deserves got nothing to do with it, or it's a hell of a thing killing a man, take away all he's got

and always ever gonna have. I think that's the most remembered line from the movie, the most quoted line from the movie. It's probably the best. Yeah. It's kind of line that it feels like he pulled it

from somewhere or that it was in a movie 30 years ago or something. I really like that I've killed women and children and I've killed just about everything that walks or crawled at one time or another and I'm here to kill you little Bill for what you did to Ned. Great one. Great moment. A book about medals award for belatedly best quota exchange. Morgan Freeman asking Will Money if he masturbates basically.

He's like, so you just use your hand? He kills me every time. He's like, so you don't. have a girlfriend no hookers either so you just use your hand he's so confused by it

was like yeah you know I also like the there's one point where I think it's like kind of later in the movie and oh it's after Schofield and Ned have come in and they've gotten out through the back window

and little Bill comes over and they're like oh little Bill they were just here for billiards and he goes billiards it's really good Hackman yelling we mentioned this already but after Davey gets shot

and he's like I'm dying boys Jesus I'm so thirsty just need some water when he's like you guys can take him some water he's like don't shoot me

you bastard the Stephen A. Smith Highest take a word I'll start you guys might not even have one for the most part I didn't mind Little Bill's philosophy as to share it for the town.

No firearms. No firearms. No vigilantes coming in. No assassins. Yeah, no assassins. Like, whether his rules worked or not, I did feel like he at least had ideas behind the rules.

Yeah, I mean, he's a fascist dictator. Yeah. He's the only one who's allowed to have guns. Small town like that. He's like, all right, this is my philosophy and I'm going to go for it. And that's what he did. The movie shows that...

Didn't work. That idea doesn't work because there's no way to kind of wrangle immorality. You know, there's no way to actually get past the human condition of, like, people are going to do bad things. People are going to go to a brothel and they're going to cut a woman up. They're going to kill people that they don't even mean to kill necessarily. And that's going to lead to this idea of revenge and vengeance. And so, like, I think the point of the movie is, is there's really no way to control our bad impulses. Yeah. I do think

So my hottest take, it's not really a hot take as much as it's like, it made watching it this time made me think there's a version of this movie that's the Little Bill story and then at the halfway through the movie this fucking crazy guy shows up and down. And you're just like, what? This dude calls himself Hendershot

and he's basically dying of consumption. So I kicked him out and he came back and killed me. Like that it's almost like the little bill is. It's like how Cobra Kai flipped around. Yeah. It's like the Little Bill is. The Little Bill story where he's like, I'm just trying to build a house, you know?

I just try to have a town with some rules. Yeah. Yeah, maybe we should make that movie. Forgiven. The Little Bill Daggett story. You have a hottest take or no? My take is that this is the one that Clint deserved it for. Like, that, unlike Al Pacino who won that year, where it was like, oh, he won for son of a woman, but he should have won for Godfather Part 2, or he should want for this or that.

that this actually is the one that he deserved best director for that it is his if it's not his best movie it's right there with like good the bad and the ugly and a couple of other movies So he won for a million dollar baby

did he win for Mr. River too or no? That won best picture but I don't think he won best director I think it's the most fun if this one's best picture but Altman wins for best director for the player would have been a fun outcome

the version of this whole Oscars where it's like Altman Best Picture Unforgiven Denzel best actor, Pacino best supporting actor for Glenn Gary. You lose Hackman. But there's like a world in which... Yeah, I need Hackman.

You shuffled the whole thing. Yeah. All of it's a lot easier if Pacino just wins when he was supposed to win for Godfather, too. Who won that year? Art Carney? Yeah. God damn it. It's a tough one.

It's just a fucking affront. It's so bad. But like all these great movies that Clint made in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, there's not a lot of them... That should have been best picture. You know, it's not, you didn't have that kind of career. The weird thing is that after Unforgiven, I feel like, I like Mystic River, it's weird that it's like an Oscar movie in some ways.

I mean, I guess. It was a bad year. Yeah. Sometimes it's just a bad year. Sometimes you have Russell Westbrook winning the MVP, which is the way it works. Casting what ifs? Didn't really have any other than that Coppola had the script in the early 80s for a little bit and met with Malkovich about William Money.

There was some Jeremy Iron stuff for English Bob, but I also don't know if I buy that because it sounds like Clint Eastwood essentially just called Richard Harrison and was like, you're in this movie. The Ruffalo... He tells that story that he was watching High Plains Drifter. Yeah, I think Clint, he's one take Clint, and I think he's one choice. One phone call.

Yeah. He's like, I want this guy. I did watch a really interesting interview with Saul Rubenek, though, about getting this part where he was working with Jack Nicholson on a movie at the time. Man Trouble? Is that a Jack Nicholson movie with Ellen Barkin? Alan Barkin? And he asked Jack for advice on what to do,

and Jack is like, go the extra mile. Make a video of yourself. And most guys didn't put themselves on video. And so because he put himself on video, he got the part because he asked Clint, why did I get the part? And he's like, you went further than most people would. And then he said from that point on,

Clint wouldn't see actors in person because he doesn't like having to see them and telling them, no, you're not cast. He doesn't want, so he only looks at actors on video. That's how I hire for The Ringer. Chris's tape is legendary, though. Chris's audition tape. Just be doing Simply Safe ad reads without a script.

Oh, my God. This kid's got it. Nailed it. I loved how he's reminding people it's Simply Safe with Two Eyes. Let's take a break. The Best That Guy Award goes to Anna Thompson. Yeah.

Who in the 90s cranked out, Unforgiven, True Romance, the crow, bad boys, all on a four-year run. And I never knew what her name was until I looked it up for this movie. I just knew her as the bad boys receptionist.

Love it. I was also just going to shout out the guy who plays skinny, basically plays skinny for like 25 years. Yeah, I don't even know what that guy's name is. I think he's in High Plains Drifter, right? Isn't he in...

He's in a few. I think he's in three Clint movies before this. Deanne Waiters Award, Richard Harris. That's what I got. Yeah, definitely. What is he, three scenes? Definitely.

Recasting couch, we mentioned River Phoenix, Joaquin Phoenix, and Leo, were my three for Schofield Kid, right around the time. I think a worst case scenario would have been Keanu Reeves as much as we love Keanu. Other than that. What about Cuba Gooding Jr.?

It's still a whiff early for him. Boys in the Hood is right around this time. You think, is Kiefer 2? old? Kiefer's too old. He's Kendrick at this point in few good men. Yeah. Kianu Reeves? I just... Yeah, I think it's too weird.

You could do Mark Wahlberg coming off the Good Vibrations video, just throwing him, giving him a shot. Was Sam Rockwell too young? Too young. Probably too young. Mark Wahlberg is not a bad call at all. Might be like two years early for him. But like the energy that you need for the character where he's like so full of shit.

You think it better than me, Will Money? Half-ass internet research. You mentioned the closing credits. I didn't know this. They made into a 2013 Japanese film called Unforgiven, starring Ken Watanabe. The Clint changed people's script, and there was an opening voiceover,

and he changed it to text in both spots. That's huge for you. You hate voiceover. Absolutely hate voiceover. I didn't really love the hard to read text, but it's still better than some random dude with a Western voice. Production designer Henry Bumstead constructed the big whiskey set in 32 days. What a job by Henry. One take Clint fucking loved it.

He's like, Henry, can you get this done in 35 days? Henry's like 32. One take Clint. It reminds me a little bit of there will be blood also in that way too because it's like everything's kind of new. And it's okay that it looks like it was just built. You know, like Little Bill's house is all brand new, all that fresh wood, just like in there will be blood. Apex Mountain for post-prime Clint. I would say yes.

I think. 16 up, Clint, he's acting in this. He directed it. It wins Best Director and Best Actor. It's a better movie than Million Dollar Baby. Nobody's watching Million Dollar Baby again. This and in the line of fire are as famous as he ever was, like, in my lifetime, to me at least. Yeah, to the under 45, crime.

When I was like, holy shit, this guy's like a, in every summer, he's been putting out like a banger. In the line of fire is good. In the line of fire. First, like 25 minutes of that movie are fantastic. All the Malcovic stuff in that movie is. Unforgiven, in the line of fire, perfect world in a 13-month window. Yeah. Am I wrong?

Is this the wrong opinion? But I was like, perfect world was super disappointing in the theater. I loved it. Disappointed people because I think they were like, Clint can't miss. And it's like a weird movie. I think that movie, it's just. too much. I saw that in the theater, obviously. And it was like Costner

at like his fame apex with Clint coming off unforgiven. And I don't know what I was expecting, but I was expecting like the 92 dream team just kill everybody. It's got like a whole like there's all the Jehovah's Witness stuff. I didn't like the son

I remember not liking that much. I haven't seen that movie a while. Yeah, I remember not loving the kid. Well, it's a real sentimental favor for me. I was younger. Yeah. Then you guys when I saw, I was almost like the kid's age when I saw it. Maybe I got to watch again. I don't think I've seen that since it's not in the theater. Post-prime Hackman you could have this or Crimson Tide.

I think it's Crimson Tide. Yeah, I think it probably is. It's not, for Apex or for like my favorite performance? For when he had the most use. I think it's this for Apex, but I think you could make the case that you have more fun with him in Crimson Tide. Yeah, I think it's

probably this for Post-Prime Apex, because then it sets up the next seven years of Hackman just crushed it. What about Freeman then? Shawshank. Yeah, it's not even close. Saul Rubenek. It's got this and true romance

same year. I don't think it gets better for Saul. What a year for Saul. I treated you like a son! He'd get stabbed in the heart, but other than that, it's a great run for him. When veterans of that bullshit war, tell me. How about teensy little pecker revenge movies?

Oh yeah. That's the exciting incident. She called teeny or teen teen teen team? Not a lot of accountability from Quick Mike. He's never like God, I really should have just controlled my emotions. I overheated. We really wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for me. Can you have a little pecker and the nickname Quick Mike? That seems like just a terrible.

Tough, tough beat. Not a lot of ways to go with that combo. That's Quick Mike. Why do they call him quick? Because he's got a small dick. It's a premature jacketer and small dick. Yeah, I mean Westerns?

Apex Mountain for Westerns? Yeah. No. I don't think so, no. What was the Apex Mountain for Westerns? Like the searchers? Somewhere in the mid-60s, right? They all feel like they're talking to each other, right?

Is it high noon? Is it the man who shot Liberty Valence? Is it the searchers? Is it good, the bad, and the ugly? When do we have the most great directors making them all on the exam? same time. 50s. That's probably the apex, right?

Yeah. Whatever that is. I'm not Western historian enough. The problem of Westerns is that everybody is like, I'm closing the book on Westerns, you know? Like, all the San Pagan-Pa-Mov movies are like, I'm closing the book on Westerns. You know, like, every generation has their like, it's time for me to tell the last tale about the American West. The Appetaph should do that for comedies. The last comedy ever.

This is the end. They'll never be a, yeah. That's true. They should have sold it that way. But it's funny. It's like, they'll do it. And then two or three years later, somebody makes like a Silverado

or somebody makes Tombstone, which is somewhat elegiac, but is mostly like this ruled. Guys were guys, you know? Deadwood is kind of a like, we're closing the book. Here's how it really was. It sucked. It was muddy and it smelled and everybody was drunk. You know, like everyone's always doing that. Sounds like college.

Was this their Hall of Fame plaque movie? Would you say yes for Clint Eastwood? I would. I think I would too. I guess now, yeah, because he made it this far. I feel like the good, the bad and the ugly is one of those, like, everything changed after that movie.

I think the directing piece, the combo, because what makes him really special, historically, I think is the fact that he otanied it, basically. More than even Dirty Harry in terms of iconography? He's choosing the Hall of Fame plaque, right?

Oh, do you get to choose if you're... Oh, I thought we were choosing. I thought this was like, this is like the first... We're choosing... Oh, yeah, I guess we are choosing. If he's choosing a... Jersey boys, I would say.

I thought it was they choose. He's like changeling. 15, 17 to Paris. Nobody got it. Is it they choose or we choose? Yet another controversial, confusing rewatchful category. At the top of Pepex Mountain

sits the plaque chooser. It's like fucking It's either dirty hair or this, depending on which version of Clint you love. Best racehorse name. English Bob's good.

English Bob's good. Hors gold is solid. Here comes Hors gold. Strawberry Alice is good. Strawberry Alice is good. I mean, the Schofield kid is... Duke of Death? The Duke of Death.

The Duck of Death. The Duck of Death. Beauchamp's urine? Maybe we should call that the Beauchamp Pee Break. Oh. That's good. Pick and Nits. This is really an all-time

dumb nitpick, but I didn't feel like Delilah's face was kind of hideously disfigured enough. It's the point is that like the way that word travels and the game at telephone that they're playing about her is that by the time it gets to They cut her eyes out. To Ned's house.

He's like, she's got her. I get that part, but the guy was saying I can't use her anymore and it's like, I don't know. She looks. Oh yeah, like you're saying like what are we talking about? She didn't have like this like hook scar like a crosser or missing an eyeball or anything like that. I felt like Clint

was thinking about it. Will turned down the free one. He did, but I don't even think needed to be free for him. I think he was viable. Whereas Ned, the second he gets out of town away from Sally, he's like, let's rock and roll. Let's go. Yeah, Ned did, he did take care of business.

He jumped in that. He's like, I'm not using my hand. Here's my big picking knit, though. How did Will just become a good guy? If this was a guy who was killing men, women, and children, like, like if you've crossed the murdering children part in the western now it's like all right you're there's no coming back you're just a dark soul so now i was like all right that was

one part of my life but that part's over now i'm just going to raise my kids i like you're a homicidal maniac at that point i don't know how you shut that up like he's basically buffalo bill and well i think a lot of it is not drinking okay so that's one thing So when he drinks So is this like a movie about alcoholism? Because near the end when he finds out Ned's dead That's when he drinks again Down the hatch

I don't know This is sort of what I was saying earlier about Almost disbelieving The way that he's narrativized Because you just don't It's a little bit hard to understand Because he seems so reserved But

I mean we see him Return to Vengeance mode You know We see him actually like murder five guys in a room in under 30 seconds. But we never saw him go, I'm gonna take out one of the prostitutes while I'm on this murder spree. Hey, is there a little kid over there?

I'll shoot him. Well, as you know, having children might change your thoughts on some of those things. Any other pick of nits for you? I didn't have that many, honestly. Yeah. We talked about him leaving the kids. I thought that was a pretty, that was a nitpick.

I don't really have any. It's a pretty lean movie. It's not a lot of plot. sequel prequel prestige TV all black cast are untouchable I'll give you two choices prequel yeah Will money

well money's called Will Money's drinking yeah to me that movie is called the Will Money Killings yeah and it's Will money it's basically the Al Josey Wales it's just him ripping through with Ned rolling through Kansas and shit yeah I'm gonna add one more thing to this category from now on documentary oh the last dance

will money and I took that personal 10 parts And I took that personal 10 parts all leading toward killing everybody at Greeleys That'd be like when

Like little Bill being interviewed About not making the dream team You know English bobs just make it shit up Just one Oscar who gets it You can't say The movie and Clint You gotta pick one

I've been voting for the movie. I am as well. I'll vote for the movie this year. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Catherine Hahn, Steve Buscemi, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, or Philip Baker Hall? God damn, Will! I have nothing to add. What if Wayne Jenkins had been Louisville Daggett?

That would have been fucking sick. I love that every time now the answer is Wayne Jenkins. you should keep making the list longer and longer and just be like Emma Thompson Seth Rogan or John Berthal's Wayne Jenkins 10 murders and a broken gun goddamn

you threw that piece right at Lil Bill! Yeah! Okay Probably in answerable questions is this the greatest Gene Hackman role ever role or performance I think Popeye

Popeye from French Connections probably his Is this a better role than Popeye I can't have one without the other I feel like You know The same way that Clint You can't the man with no name

And this movie Like you can't have one without the other I'm going with Crimson Tide guy As the number His best role? I love that character that guy.

That would be my personal pick. I just love the character. It's Popeye. It's the conversation. It's this. Hoosiers? Behind enemy lines. I don't know about that.

Hoosiers, he ruined for me because he didn't, when we did the rewatchables on it, we found out he hated the movie and, like, disowned it as he was making it. Really hurt my feelings. Why? He just thought it was a shit movie. He was telling Dennis Hopper, like,

tell your agent, this is just. He's like, no way. these fucking guys win the state championship. He's going straight to video. He's talking shit as he was making it. It was miserable on the set by all accounts. Oh, this will be good. Best, you have no unanswerable questions, right?

I just remember something really quick out on Hackman. There is a movie early on his career where he plays an absolute demon. It's called Prime Cut. If you've ever seen that with Lee Marvin. It's a sissy SpaceX first movie. It's like a little bit of a grind house movie directed by the great Michael Ritchie. is it like before badlands it's

early 70s right it's like 72 okay and he plays like a Kansas City mobster who is like theoretically like a like a pig baron like a pork baron and he grinds people he like feeds people to

the pigs in the movie and he is a mean motherfucker good movie best double feature choice with this movie I even ask my dad for his opinion on this what do he say? Outlaw Josie wills see see I love Josie Wilson See, I was going to say High Plains Drifter.

Basically, they're, they're paired because they're both so violent and so intense. He wanted an early Clint Western where he kills everybody and then this movie. High Plains Drifter is similarly morally ambiguous where it's just sort of like this guy rolls into town. He's hired to do a job and he just blows everybody away. It's a really cool looking movie, but it is like absolutely absent of morality. Yeah. Allo Jolze Wales is like, these motherfuckers killed my family and now everybody has to die. Yeah.

The Indian Red Zawantana Award for what happened the next day. So I don't have, the next day, it is very funny to think of, like, big whiskey day two. Like, what happens? I have Francis Fisher as the sheriff. Strawberry House is running the show. But I want to shout out, it's not the next day, but it's a little bit down the line, is what it must be like when William Money's in-laws show up and, like, the end card is like, and then they came, and there was nothing there.

I was like, they're just like, so our grandkids are just gone. Our daughter is dead, and this house is. basically in smoldering ruins. They didn't make it out to San Francisco? What happened? I don't, I mean, I'm saying, like, wouldn't you be pretty disappointed? Also, like, the whole thing is just, like, it takes basically half a year to get across the state anyways. I like William Money getting to San Francisco getting in early on Google, you know, getting some Amazon stock. He meets a guy named Danny Plainville, Plainview. He's on the All In podcast.

Him, Daniel Plainview, one of the Rockefellers, they're just potting. That's good, 1910s. what piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie chris can i get a free one from delilah no just kidding i should have put that in one stage the best i love i love the concept of the free one i'd probably go with duke of death the book

oh that's good good one uh ned's rifle spencer rifle yeah i wanted the rifle the second one he used in the killing scene his last right

I think that would be cool be like just break that out Sean's 40th birthday party is there go by shot in the face what's your coach Finstock Award

for Best Life Lesson Sean um don't fuck with murderers I think that's pretty some people never change yes

yes yes that's a good one yeah that goes against my dad's my dad's law do you think deserves got nothing to do with it is a life lesson.

Yeah. It's a good one. Bad shit just happens. Yeah. To try to stay out of the way. Hard to explain. Then who won the movie? It's Clint, but there is a fun Gene Hackman.

This time around, it was Hackman for me. Yeah. But Clint wins because of the Oscars, the cementing the, you know. How many times do you think you guys have seen this movie? Oh, my God. 10 or 15 times? I say I've probably seen the ending. Yeah.

I don't know how many times. Many, many times. Because flipping channels, if that's coming on, you're just watching the last 20. Because I think the Hackman idea is one that kind of comes to you, the more you watch it, right? The first time you watch it, you wouldn't be like, Gene Hackman, you know, you'd be like...

I thought I remembered Hackman's role being much smaller, and it obviously isn't. It's got, like, much more. I think I've seen the last 30 minutes of this movie probably 10 times as much as the actual movie. Because it's an all-time. Oh, Ned's decided to leave the group. Can't turn it off now.

Yeah, can't turn it off now. I'm watching it. Craig, you never saw it, right? No. So what do you think? It's definitely a slow burn. I'm not going to lie. I think this movie's really hard to watch with a phone in your pocket these days.

Like the first hour, you're kind of like looking around. What's on Twitter? I really liked it, though. I mean, there's a lot of great scenes. The end was good. To be honest, I don't have a huge relationship with Clint Eastwood. I don't think many people my age do. Yeah.

So I'm definitely, I'm consuming all of his work out of order. I've seen Million Dollar Baby. have seen like Grand Torino and like this. So I don't know what old Clint's like. So it's weird to see him like... I think that's a key point because I think part of the unforgiven is the history with Clint

that you kind of needed to have in some way. Watching him like fumbled to get on the horse is weird because I was like this is... I'm sure I understand that this is very interesting because he never used to do this that he's like making himself seem vulnerable but for me it didn't mean as much. I was trying to think what actor

I've seen the most movies of who was actually either the star or one of the stars in the movie and I think it might be Clint. that's a really good point it's at least probably it's got to be over 45 movies in this point

over the course of such a long time even during my lifetime he was making he doesn't have like a Pacino takes the first few years of the 80s off or anything you know and then he had the whole catalog from the 60s and 70s he's 62

when he makes this movie he'd already had like this whole extended career and because he directs his own with the exception of like trouble with the curve or a couple of things like he doesn't really have like a lot of like

true like dog shit paycheck movies you know even that one was directed by like his producer so he keeps it in the family yeah I mean I think you're right Bill I think I think he's probably the mainstream American movie star who has made the most movies

that like would be accessible that you would have seen you know like his it's 60s 70s 80s 90s 2000s 2010s that's six decades of movies that he never stopped working yeah until last year Well, that's when I stopped watching.

Just give CryMacho a shot. No. He's going to hate it. Just give it a shot. I hate that movie. It's not terrible. It's not great. You told me it was terrible.

It's not. It's bad. It's not terrible. His last role needs to be his version of Henry Fondon on Golden Pondon. It's like a cross tune on Golden Pond, Unforgiven. He's an old guy. Is he making a movie? That's kind of the point.

Do you know if he's got one? I don't. I don't know if he is. I think, isn't he like 92, 93? Yeah. He, uh, crime macho is very similar to Unforgiven in that he, it had been around for decades and no one made it. And eventually he made it.

Al Ruddy, who produced the godfather. Al Ruddy. Produced crime macho. The one thing we didn't mention with his directing is he always got great performances out of people, which I do think is a skill that directors don't get credit for sometimes. Something about these people who used to act, they just kind of get it. I don't think it's a coincidence. it's like just laid out all these different actors.

They're either at their best or it was like one of their three best. When Clint, when one take Clint was directing. One other good story that Saul Rubenac told. They're trying to impress him, right? Well, I thought this was really interesting. I never heard it put this way. Saul Rubenac had an idea for the character of WW Beauchamp,

went to Clint and was like, Clint, I'm seeing this in the script. I don't want to change the dialogue, but I'm thinking like the tone is more like this. And Clint just said, Saul, the department of WW Beauchamp is run by you. I'm in charge of all this over here. You're in charge of that. So you do what you think is right.

And if you need to move to the left a little bit, I might tell you, or if you need to speak a little louder, I might tell you, but otherwise, you're in charge. And I think that's why, nine out of ten times, people are just doing their best work.

Yeah. And he's like, and don't do a second fucking take. I've got one take to nail this. I have a, I'm playing golf at 2.30. I think if Fincher directs east whatever, they never get off the set. There's just, there's just...

No, Eastwood kills Fischer. It's like, David Fincher died today. He was filming with Clint Eastwood and got beaten to death. Is it Scatman Crothers who tells the story? Because he's so happy to be on it on Eastwood set. Yeah, he did a one-take-client. Yeah, and then he was with Bronco Billy or something.

For as many stories as there are about Fincher made me do 94 takes of moving an ashtray two inches. Like, there are stories of guys being like, I was so nervous. Fucking Clint Eastwood's directing me. I do this speech or I do this scene. He comes up to me, he's like, that was great.

Can you just look left once? We'll do it again. Do you want another one? We'll do it again. And they do another one, and then they're like, all right, it's lunch. Yeah, print. Sounds great.

That's how you want to work. That's how we're working. No cuts in this episode. True. Podcasts, we try to do one take Clint for the most part. It's the way to go. All right, this podcast was produced

by Craig Horlebeck. Thanks to Chris and Sean. We'll see you next week.