The Rewatchables - ‘Warrior’ With Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: September 14, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo left Mick and Polly at home to rewatch the 2011 sports drama ‘Warrior’ starring Nick Nolte, Tom Hardy, and Joel Edgerton. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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today. Warrior. Next. You're my big brother. You bailed on me. I was a 16-year-old kid. What the hell did I know? From the director of Miracle, there's this big turn. I'm going to need a trainer. What began as an incredible challenge. I got a family to protect. Everything I do

is for them. Became one family's impossible journey. The two-man fighting for the championship tonight. On September 9th. You can do this. What are you saying? I can do this. Chase, your dreams.

Warrior of APG-13 in theater, September 9th. All right, Brian Marcillo is here. It's the rare movie that drags him out of hibernation to do a rewatchful. He's a busy man. He's a writer. He's a host podcast for The Ringer. But I threw the Warrior a 10th anniversary at him, and it was the 10th anniversary on September 9th.

That's all I needed. I didn't need to sway you. I didn't need to convince you. We both think this is a classic. My first question for you, is MMA better as sports movie than boxing is? We've had 100 million boxing movies. Doesn't MMA work better? Isn't it more realistic?

Yeah, I think it is because there's kind of the unknown. I mean, this is a little bit of a stretch to have two guys that are just out of the mix, like all of a sudden eligible for this tournament. But we're going to get to that. Right, right. We'll get to that. And I hate to even start off with anything to be critical of it because I love this movie so much. So I feel like the MMA part of it, like they do a better job.

It's almost like basketball versus the other sports where we know the characters a little bit better. There's a more intimate relationship between the fan base and the coverage and who those guys are. Like I can tell you probably 10 different guys in the U.S.C. Like what you'd expect if you ever met them or something. You know, I've interviewed a bunch of them. Boxing there feels like this disconnect. So for storytelling purposes, I'd agree with you. Also, it's more realistic to have the Rocky Balboa underdog situation with MMA.

because in MMA, you could be one of the best guys of the last 10 years and your record could be like 20 and 7. Like, it's realistic. Anybody can lose any match. So for what happens with Joel, is it Edgerton? Edgerton?

I think it's a softer one. Edgerton. Yeah. Edgerton? Yeah, I think it's Edgerton. Should probably know this. It's one of those where I don't know which way it goes.

He's Australian. I'm pretty sure it's Joel Edgerton. That's what I think to. But even for him to like pull the arm bar on COBA, It's like not as crazy as Rocky Balboa going 15 rounds of the Apollo Creed, which I think we could, if we were truly litigating that, we would be like, there's no way the ref stops that by like the 10th round. I'm a huge MMA fan, but not to the point where I know everybody and all the divisions and everybody's rank and all that kind of stuff. You know, I don't get every single pay-per-view. I get a lot of them.

But I love the sport. And I respect the sport so much because I think, you know, anybody that's ever had to do anything like this, you were so tuned up, your whole body, the strength. the anxiety in your body trying to not only connect but avoid. It gets just a whole different ass. Like as tough as swimming is, as the toughest basketball is like the athleticism that you have to have to survive in there and what you put yourself through mentally and physically to be in tune for every little second.

And we were talking about, I remember once in a pre-show meeting for ESPN and I had a producer. It was like, eh, it's not that great of a sport. And I went, what are you talking about? I'm like, you may not like it and that's fine.

He goes, the best guys don't last that. long. And just to your point, I was like, that's the whole reason why I think people love it. Like, I don't care who you are. And that's why Peak John Jones is so amazing. And I wish his story had gone a little bit differently. But you can be the baddest man on the planet for three fights. And the odds are you're probably going to lose to somebody. So in a way, I think people should like that better as opposed to boxers to just build up their records in their 40 and we don't even know if they're any good. I think I belatedly came around to that take. I remember

thinking in the mid-late 2000s, I think it was when Chuck Liddell all of a sudden was out, he was gone. And he was the biggest star they had. And then all of a sudden he wasn't a star anymore because he got beat. And I was like, well, this is bad for them. They have these stars. They could lose the stars overnight. How are they going to regenerate? And I remember really thinking like, you know, but not realizing that's actually the best quality of MMA, that there's always the next guy that's coming. You know, I think even like WWE, which obviously isn't real. they have real issues with, you know, they kind of ebb and flow with the stars. So like when people talk about the glory days of the late 90s,

it's because they had Stone Cold and Rock and Triple H and Undertaker. These guys that were in the primes of their careers that were like mega stars. And that's why it was so great. And then you look at the mid-2000s, like suddenly they have the same stars. MMA is just, there's always a next guy. There's always like an next three guys. And I think people are also, you have this whole generation of people, I think under 25 that have just grown up with the,

sport that just like it, which brings us to Worryer, which didn't work. It didn't do that well. Nick, the best thing that happened with it was Nick Nolte got a best sporting the actor nomination. The movie barely made Mac what they spent. It actually lost a little more. It was like a $25 million budget. Didn't even make that much. I didn't even see it until 2013. And at the time, this is when my finger still worked. I used to write about every sports movie. or I would like do something and I really cared about the sports movie genre. Moneyball came out the year and I was trying to figure out why I didn't see it. And I think we had just launched Grantland.

It came out and maybe I assumed I was going to see it. But when I finally saw it when it was on cable or whatever, and I started watching probably halfway through and I'm like, what is this? Like that's how little I knew about it. And then it's became this belated rewatchable. But don't you feel like if they released this movie right now in 2021, this is easily a monster movie, I think.

I would think so. I mean, obviously, if Hardy's at this stage 10 years later, you know, Hardy's on the very short list of an absolute whatever Hardy's in, I'm going to see. I even bought the movie Locke where he's in his car talking of a speaker for nine minutes. Wow, I like that movie. I was a little disappointed, but then some other writer friends are far more established. We're like, no, no, you don't get how amazing it is that they pulled that off.

And I'm like, yeah, that's fair. But that's who Hardy is to me. If Hardy's in it, I'm giving it. it a chance. That list isn't very long. Edgerton's had some great stuff too, but I think even at the time, I didn't quite understand who Gavin O'Connor was 10 years ago. It wasn't, but basically everything Gavin O'Connor does works. He has this feel. There's this tone. And I don't know. Do you want me to tell the story now? Because I don't know if we want to save it for the end or tell it now, because I, like you, didn't know that much about it until I was asked to promote it. Oh,

let's no let's save it I have a specific spot I have a specific spot in the pot because I want to say because O'Connor did an interview for Daily Beast about the movie and he put it

you know he put everything into it you get the feeling like this was his favorite movie that he made he put the most into it he's in it but he said when it didn't perform it was heartbreaking I put so much of myself

into this film it's by far my most personal movie I have no social media whatsoever but I would hear from people who worked on the movie they're like this is finding a new life People would discover the movie through word of mouth and on streaming and back then on DVD.

So yeah, it feels really rewarding. I'm just grateful. That never happens anymore, just for the record. Usually now the way movies are promoted, everyone decides. Everyone knows they're out and everyone decides. And even if it's like a little indie, they're trying to float out there. People still know about it. To have this underdog cable hit is kind of the whole reason we have this podcast.

It's like this movie didn't do well. It's been on for 10 years. If I come in at certain points of the movie, I'm fucking. watching it. Like just point blank, if it's on, I'm watching it. If we, if once we get to Sparta, I'm in. Maybe I'm not going to watch the, you know, the eight minute Nolte Hardy scenes in the beginning. But once we're around the last hour of the movie, it's unassailably awesome. And they did such a good job with it. I think it's, honestly, I think it's one of the best sports movies ever. I really do. I don't know what the final list is, but it's in my top 10. Easily. I mean,

to me, it's beyond even a sports movie because when you play off these dramatic things, you're like, well, here's the concept. It's a two brothers. There's his father, Nick Nolte, where it's one of the greatest roles he's ever played. He's unbelievable. Every time you see him,

he almost, I mean, he makes you emotional if you're buying into the character, and he's such an easy buy-in because he absolutely nails the role. And it was actually written for him. The way the screenplay was written, one of the other screenwriters on this

had written him in for this other part, but he had to have knee replacement or something. So he's like, look, I can't even be in the movie. And the guys, like, don't worry about it. And I guess they were neighbors or something. Yeah, they supposedly live next to each other in Malibu, and they just were like, we're writing a movie. And that's how that starts.

Yeah. So this wasn't like, we're not even going to cast it. We're not going to do anything. Like, it's your role. And thank God, because I mean, this, I really think you could argue this is, I mean, it sounds crazy, but is it Nick Nolte's best role ever? I mean, he's that good. It might be his most important.

You know, he gets nominated and we'll get to some of the Oscar travesties with this. But he's nominated, probably should have won, didn't win. We'll get to that later. One of the first pods we did on this was Moneyball on this feed on the rewatchables. And Chris and I were, I think I haven't listened to it for four years, but I think we were hypothesizing, is Moneyball the best sports movie of the last 10 years? Because at that point, we're taping in 2017. And I've watched Warrior a couple times since then.

And I do think it's between Warrior Moneyball, but I'm just going through the decades. I made my list of best 21st century sports movies, but tying it to the decades. So for the 2000s, I think it's Friday Night Lights, Love and Basketball, Miracle, and the Wrestler. Gavin O'Connor did Miracle. That was his first big sports movie. 2010s, I really think it's Warrior, Moneyball, Rush, and Creed. Not in that order, but I think those are the four. Well, he did Warrior.

For 2020s, we're only a year in here. I think the way back will be one of the four, the Affleck movie. I thought that movie was great. I really did. I couldn't believe he didn't get it. nominated. I think the pandemic played a big part of it. It just kind of came and went. Crush that movie. It really did because it was going to be, it was actually, I believe the timeline of it, because I remember, you know, just kind of knowing a little bit more about it where

it was like, this was the big lead up and all of this stuff. And then it's like, okay, and then didn't it get delayed? Remember Affleck did the Bristol car wash, like right before the pandemic? And then it was kind of like, they had to like pause everything. Yeah, it's a bummer. And that movie's on. And I actually think Al Madrigal is great in that movie as the assistant coach. I think the basketball scenes are as good as we've had in a basketball movie. They're really, really authentic. And then I love that he twists it. And that's the thing that O'Connor does.

Miracle is a traditional movie, right? He built it around Herb Brooks. I think that was the a traditional move. Most of the people would have built around the kids. He realized quickly, like, this has to be Kurt Russell's movie, made it work. Warrior is building toward these two brothers fighting. And you're just assuming one of them is going to lose in the semis. and then the other one will be in the corner for the guy who wins it.

No, we're actually going head to head. And then the way back, the sports movie scene that you think's going to be the end of the movie, there's 25 minutes to go. Affleck's character completely falls apart after the quote-unquote sports movie ending. So his ability to twist this, I think, is really special. And to get you invested in characters, and you just think of like the evolution of sports movies, this is what's happening to them. There are now movies about sports.

The movies we grew up with were sports movies. They were formulaic to some degree. Everybody trying to rip off the rocky blueprint or whatever. Now there are movies that happen to be centered in the world of sports, which is an evolution. I think it's cool. You brought up a lot of good points there. And of course, Brad Engelsby, creator of Mera Easttown, who I had on my podcast talking about that, but he also wrote the way back. You know, so he's work with Gavin and stuff.

And it seems to be those guys just figure out the tone, you know, those opening shots of the town and Nolte driving around in that beat up car. Like, it's just you're already in. You know what I mean? They're such a buy-in immediately. Like they do such a good job with like these these blue-collar towns and you know exactly where you are. You know, like it's a great, great element of their storytelling. And so when I asked Ingallsby about the way back, and this is why I think this is important

with the warrior, and you can remind me a miracle too. I was like, hey, what's up with Affleck as an athlete? He's like, yeah, I didn't play hoops. I'm like, the whole movie is about this legend. And there's not one moment. He goes, you know, we try. we shot some stuff and we just it wasn't going to work and I love that about these guys because the movies we grew up with nobody gave a shit like they have a guy running from third base to second

for the shot and anybody that ever played sports would be like what are you guys doing and I think it ruins some authenticity even if you know most people in hollywood just wouldn't even care about that stuff so there's something to the fighting scenes with this where it's so real bill they and I think it's a little bit of some of it. Like, they don't give us a lot. They give us a shot and it's quickly away, or the close-up is so intense that you're right on it. I mean, we've got Hardy and Edgerton

and MMA fights against real guys, and they don't look like assholes, where you go back and watch Rocky stuff, and you have laugh-out-loud moments. Right. I get that that was kind of the point, but back then they thought that was crushing it. And it's absurd.

And I think Gavin has figured out a way to tell sports stories, tell these stories where, yeah, the focus is on the sports. They have a standard that everybody has to kind of look like they get past. And I think a lot of this stuff, the way it's shot, these fight scenes all felt so real because they're not just setting back and being like, okay, here's 30 straight seconds of this fight scene, which exposes everybody. It's these quick, quick cuts that work perfectly.

And I think it's why this movie, it works. You know, there's no, it doesn't ever feel fake at any moment. the way they shoot it is really interesting. I'm fanatical about this. They go wide, and it's almost like the cameras in the crowd, so you feel like you're in the fourth row watching it. Then they'll go on the side where the corner man's in, but you're still far away.

You always have a sense of where the guys are in the ring, and it always feels like either you have really good seats at the fight, or you have a really good TV, you know, pay-per-view. And then when they cut into the actual, into the cage with the guys, guys, like, all of it feels authentic. I also think it's incredible. They invent, like, basically two different MMA styles, right? Like, Tom Hardy's basically Lesnar in this movie.

He's coming in. He's just, like, he's just a complete wrecking ball. And then Edgerton's character is more like, we've seen this guy in UFC. We've seen those guys. They're like not the most athletic. They can take some punishment. You don't want to get on the ground with them because they'll flip you around. They might be able to get an arm bar on you or something.

But I felt like. to go in those two lanes when MMA hadn't really been around for that long yet, right? 2011, it's like it had been 15, 16 years, but really like, I would say seven, eight years as a mainstream sport. But the fact that they grasped all the stuff they needed to grasp, I think is one of the reasons this movie's age so well. It could come out right now. And I guarantee some people haven't seen it. Yeah, you're right. I mean, you're watching it right now.

If somebody told you what came out last year, there's probably no part of the movie. You'd be like, wait a minute, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, you know what I mean? It doesn't, it holds up. The only thing that makes sense, the Sparta piece of it, and, you know, this is stepping on nipicks, but I just don't think from a health of the combatant's standpoint, they would have this many rounds in a short span, right? Yeah, but that's a little unclear how many days passed between these fights, but I actually think the commission would block this now, I think. Yeah, I think it's consecutive days because when they say, hey, like, we've got to come back tomorrow. So there's a little hints in there that this is consecutive.

I mean, the funny part is this is what it used to be. When we were in college ordering this stuff, I mean, you were fighting the same night. So you would see a guy win his first fight, and you're like, nobody's going to beat that guy. And then he comes back to the second fight. And we're like, this guy has to fight another dude, a half an hour later. And you go, okay, so now even though he might be the best fighter in one fight, you're going to go through. And that's why, you know, Hoyst Gracie was winning all these fights because his style, first of all, he's just better than everybody on top of everything else. That's what it used to be.

I still think the UFC as far as mainstream, it is early 2000s. It's Chuck Weddell, it's Tito, it's that kind of stuff. That's when it was really starting to blow up. And, you know, depending on which weight class is your favorite, maybe the heavy weights caught up a little bit later. But I still think UFC had clearly been established at this point. But you're right. As far as how would it play out in 2010, 2010, 2011,

were they ever allow you to do this kind of thing? No, of course not. This is a great question for you specifically. Would you have rather had this movie, You're Gavin O'Connor in this, you're a writer. You and Gavin are both writer-directors. Would you have rather had this scenario where this movie is just a real hit, followed by some backlash about blah, blah, blah, and it makes money, and then it goes away?

Or it comes out, it's beloved, it doesn't do that well, and then has this long tail with people who are just like, I fucking love this movie, or I have no opinion at all. So basically it's all love and it just builds and you have more and more fans every year. Because to me, this is like the perfect kind of outcome for a movie, even though it probably didn't feel like that for David O'Codder for five years. The way this played out is great. It's like an underdog, just like Joel Hedgton's character as an underdog of the movie.

This became an underdog sports movie classic. It was not a classic when it came out. All right. It's a good question. And I think his accomplishment since then make it an easier answer. And I think the way this has played out, he's probably fine with now. Yeah. But if he were putting together mortgage policies for you, he'd be saying, I'd rather

everybody hate it and it'd have been a huge hit. You know, because. But maybe that was better for us because maybe if this becomes a huge hit, then he's doing Hunger Games in 2013 and his career is not the career he has. I think maybe this is one of the reasons he's had such a cool career. Yeah, that might that might, no, no, I'm totally with you. I think it's a lot easier 10 years removed with all the success he's to be able to kind of look at this and go, all right,

because at the time, he was devastated. He was devastated that it was reacting to make it feel better. Yeah, I'm just in case he's list, I'm trying to make him feel better. I'm sure Gavin's okay now with it, but I'm, you know, anybody that has to work with a studio, like, hey, that was a bomb. They're usually not like, what do you have next?

What else is in your drafts? What do you got? Here's another good thing for Gavin. Sports movie director about Rushmore. This movie caused me to make sense. list. I wasn't even, oh my God, I love when I don't even know what we're doing. Go ahead. Yeah, I'm just telling you what it is. I'm not even giving you input.

So, Ron Shelton would be on there, right? He has to be. He had Bulld Durham, Tinkup, white men can jump. My thing is, you have to have two iconic sports movies to even be considered. Yeah, it's kind of like, if you're the best player in the NBA, I need two seasons of it. Yeah, I need like, exactly.

John Aveltson does Rocky and Karate Kid, I think just he has to be on there. You could say Rocky invented modern sports movies. He also did Carotid Kid 2 and Carotid Kid 3. Two's not good. Two's solid. Three is one of the funniest movies of the late 80s. Now you have O'Connor.

He does Miracle Warrior in the Wayback. That's a really great three. And then the fourth one, nobody would think to have on here. But if Sean Fantasy is listening, he'll be excited. I mention it. Michael Ritchie does Bad News Bears, downhill racer, wildcats, and semi-tuff. But the two big ones are Bad News Bear and Downhill Racer.

Fantasy and I are actually going to do downhill racer. Racer on the rewatchables at some point over the next six months because I think that's the best sports movie. Probably nobody who listens to this podcast has ever seen. Do you know what it is? Nope. Redford as a cocky Olympic skier in the 1972 Olympics with Gene Hackman as his coach. Ian, writing it down.

Watch it this weekend. You're going to be texting me like, oh my God, Dalio Racer. It's fucking awesome. And then they did the candidate together. and Michael Ritchie had a great career. So that's my four. Ron Shelton, John Alvleton, Gavin O'Connor, Michael Ritchie. And I actually think that's the four.

I can't even really accept any other nominees. So that's Wildcats, Goldie Hawn? Yeah, I think because it's the... No, no, that movie's awesome. Okay? I enjoy Wildcats. I'll defend it. When I was a kid, I loved that movie.

That's actually a great... I'm surprised that one hasn't been thought of to remake that one. Storyline. Female coach, Inner City. comes in, high school kids doubt her, she beats them in long distance running, done and done. 90 minutes, 95. And it's funny. Yeah, it also starts the Harrelson-sn-sn-snipes trilogy, because it starts with Wildcat.

Then we go to White Man Can't Jump. We finish off with Money Train. The trilogy, as I call it. O'Connor said Rocky was the biggest influence for him on this film. He said, quote, Rocky for me, such an indelible film. To this day, it's in my bloodstream. From the moment I saw it as a little boy, I came home, did push-ups, eight eggs. I just love Rocky.

It was a big influential film. So I was definitely tipping my hat to that movie. I'm madly in love with it. There's a little small, like overtly when the guy makes a joke about Mick and Polly. There's little overt things. The fact that it's slow in the first hour intentionally, I think it is a little like Rocky.

It's really like takes you into this world. But it's modern Rocky. And in a lot of ways, Creed was the other version of modern Rocky. And now when you watch Rocky, it is so fucking slow. I mean, if you watch Rocky, recently, it is like, you could cut 40 minutes out of that movie pretty easily. It was amazing in the day. I like slow builds.

I'm okay with it's slow. What I think this movie does, it's not a slow build necessarily, but they do something that most people wouldn't want you to do. The brothers don't talk to each other until an hour and five minutes into the movie. Right. All right. I love that. I think most people would be like, hey, now you get to, what are you doing?

Like, there has to be some back and forth. But Edgerton's whole family situation with the house, great backdrop to his storyline. People like him, the teacher, cute. Well, I like Tess. I like her role in this. Me too. Because she's, you know how like Affleck's wife in Margin Call? No, it's not margin call.

What is it? The company meant, the company meant, right? She's a tough hang in that movie. Well, most of these sports movies, why I have, girlfriends, I always called it the wet blanket girlfriend. Their role is just kind of cut away at the main character and nag and then a belatedly come around at the end. This one doesn't do that. She's a little nervous at the top and then she's in. She's just a huge fan. And it works. Like her thing is very believable. She's, she's working as a cocktail waitress. He's doing it. So like his backstory is

really good. So I don't know that you needed the Tom Hardy intro earlier with the two of them because Hardy, you know, five minutes into this movie. I mean, you want to talk about selling like where you go, okay, I'm in. You know, I was doing a podcast with Addyne, we were talking about Fargo, where Fargo, two, three minutes into the movie, Jerry Lundegar is talking to Bashmi's character saying,

hey, kidnap my wife and I'm going to pay you the ransom. Like, there's no way somebody's changing the channel after that. Right. And with Hardy, pop some pills, pull a whiskey,

Nolte's coming back from a meeting, the Moby Dick book on tape thing. I love that element. They didn't have to do it. It just added something. And then obviously comes full circle later in the hotel scene part of it, but Hardy waiting for Nolte, his dad,

who he hasn't seen in his 14 years, I think. Now, because that was supported so well, I think other people would have put Edgerton and Hardy together a lot earlier, had some sort of conflict and then built. They didn't need any of that because their separate storylines work to that final 30 minutes. One of the interviews that Gavin did about this, I'm calling him Gavin.

I've never met him, was the writer asked him, How have you never had them on? That doesn't make sense. Maybe I feel this. Come on. The writer asked, did you model this after heat? Where you have De Niro and Pacino, where they're kind of circling each other, but they don't actually have a scene until the diner scene, right?

And O'Connor's like, yeah, I never even thought of that. Like, that's a funny parallel. But it is like, it always does work in the movies when the central characters are kind of adjacent, but it's leading to them hitting it together. We got to mention how bad 2011 was as a movie year because it's kind of legendary. There were some ones I like, like this one obviously, Moneyball, Fast 5, Five, Bridesmaids, Limitless,

Brad the Cooper, I thought was good, young adult, contagion, country strong, Liz Kelly favorite. But in general, this was like a classic sequels, action movies, and just kind of shitty movies. And you go to the best picture that year. There's one, two, three, four, five. There's nine nominees. The artist wins, a movie that's nobody talked.

Nobody's had an artist conversation in 10 years. That wins. The descendants, solid, extremely loud and incredibly close. I can't fucking believe that movie got nominated for an Oscar over Warrior. I mean, that's like, it fucking indefensible. For best picture? For best picture. I don't even remember what that was.

What was the title again? Extremely loud and incredibly close. I think it was a 9-11 movie. It was awful. The Help, which is a movie that has become really polarizing over the years. I can see why I was nominated. Hugo, good movie. Midnight in Paris.

Moneyball, good. Tree of Life. You know, you know why. That's like a Malik career achievement. And then War Horse, which is fucking, how does War Horse get nominated? Those were our nine. And then obviously Gavin O'Connor doesn't get in there for Best Director. Hardy doesn't get anything for Best Actor.

The guy from the artist won. And then the only one was Nolan. But this movie just gets shut out. And part of the reason it gets shut out is it didn't do well. And I think if you redid the Oscars, I really think Hardy gets nominated. I think he gets a best actor.

And I think Nolte gets nominated. I think you make a case for O'Connor. And I think it's definitely best picture. If this is done again. If we look at especially best actor, best actresses awards, you usually have to push some sort of limits. And in this case, they're like,

oh, Hardy Meathead beats up on people. You know what I mean? like if the guy from the art, I don't remember it as well as you do. But if you go through it, you got to do the PR of how he put on 30 pounds. He trained MMA for three and a half months. You got to do like the DeNiro Raging Bowl storyline to push the hard. That's not enough anymore.

That was enough for De Niro back then. He's also De Niro and it was incredible. But there has to be some angle now, you know? The best supporting actor, Nolte lost. Christopher Plummer won for a movie called Beginners that nobody's thought about in 10 years. And it was a career achievement. He was, you know, a million years old, and that's why he went.

$25 million budget made $23.5. Roger Ebert, three stars said, quote, this is a rare fight movie in which we don't want to see either fight or lose. Good point. Who am I rooting for in that final scene? I'm attached to both guys. It's really cool how they did it. And again, that mirrors heat a little bit.

We're into the categories in a second. We come back. Priscilla's going to tell his story about how he promoted the movie. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great

sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of of spring save at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% rewards on purchases.

Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash. terms of play. All right, coming back, your involvement with Warrior. Tell the story. All right. You're going to have to give me a little room here, but feel free to ask any follow-ups. So I'm at ESPN now. I've been there five years. I've been SVP and Rissilo. We're on year three. So 2011, right? And you know how it works. If you're on air at ESPN, there's usually a little candy sprinkled around every now and then. It's like, hey, do you want to do this deal? Like, I had to deal with Dick Sporting Goods one year. You know, and it was always the thing like,

hey, national show on every single day. Can I get one deal each year? And some people would get a lot more. And clearly, I knew where I was in the pecking order. I was never going to be anybody's first call, probably not even their fifth call. And so I get a call from, I don't know if it was through the talent department or somebody in business affairs. They go, hey, do you know anything about this movie warrior?

And I go, no, I don't know. And I didn't know anything about it. And they go, okay, well, you're from Boston. They're doing a movie premiere in Boston. And they want, Lionsgate wants you to host it. And I'm like, whoa, this is crazy. You're like, wait, I'm from Martha's Vineyard. But keep telling me, though.

Keep telling me. That's right. And trust me, for anybody from boss, I never say I'm from boss. But I didn't live there for six or seven years. And so there, you know, I became like the Boston guy at ESPN, even though that's really, I didn't want to be stepping on your tones. But you were in L.A. at that point anyway, so nobody cared. I didn't count either.

Yeah, right. So Steve Levy was the Boston guy. But he's a New York guy. Yeah, true. There was really no bossy guy. Anyway. Levy's like, he'd be the first. to correct you. Like, hey, I may have lived in Beacon Hill, you know, gone to the place,

but I'm New York City all the way through. So anyway, I'm excited, man. I am really excited. Like, this is like the first event. You know, I may have done some weird appearance for $2,500 here or there, but it's like, hey, we're going to pay you some money and you're going to go to the premiere, red carpet, whole deal, movie theater. Like, are you up for this? I go, absolutely. I'm absolutely up for it. So I'm dating a girl. It's pretty serious at the time. And I go, do you want to come with me to this movie premiere, this movie warrior, I'm gonna,

you know, I'll research everything. And I guess I'm hosting and kind of interviewing people in and on the red carpet. Like, this is how it's gonna, she's like, absolutely. Yeah.

So I go to Boston the night before. Now, the first warning where I was like, is this really what I think I'm being sold? They're like, it's not in Boston. It's in Braintree. Oh.

And you're like, they're doing a movie premiere in Brain Tree. And by the way, it wasn't a Friday night. It was like during the day. in the middle of the week. So I'm already confused, but I get, because I'm such a prep freak,

I get a hotel room the night before, and I'm researching Gavin, I'm researching all the different screenwriters, and I'm putting together like, hey, you have to introduce people, you have to host a little, and then when the movie is about to start, and we're in the pack theater for this premiere,

because the movie's not even out yet, you were going to intro the movie. So I was like, what do you need? And they're like, give us one to two minutes. I go perfect. So I write it all out. You know me, a couple hours of research. I'm walking around my hotel room, you know, sitting there rehearsing it, you know, getting

it down, memorizing all my lines, got it perfect. All right. Girlfriend calls. She's like, I'm on my way up. She's in a gown. She's makeup. She got her hair done. Hair did.

I got a brain tree. Right. And I want, and for people who are going to understand, like the brain tree, shout out to brain tree, but it's not the first vacation spot for anybody thinking about a place to go for a weekend in New England. And I pull into the parking lot. Great mall. And I've got my suit.

Actually, the theater's in that whole little mall parking lot area. It's where I saw the Shawshank Redemption. So I'm always going to have a soft spot for Braintry. But anyway. So I walk in to the front of the theater and there's nothing. Nothing set up. There's no. Like they call it step and repeat.

I don't know. They don't have that. There's a couple girls in like B.C.N. T-shirts with the not tied around their waist. and then there's like some huge security guard. And I go, hey, I'm Ryan Rissilo. I'm here with ESPN. I'm here to host the movie premiere.

And the guy's like, yeah, what do you need? I'm like, well, I got to change into my suit. He's like, yeah, there's a men's room over there. I was like, you don't have any more like, what? He's like, yeah. So I go to the actual men's room of the movie theater lobby and just change. And a guy comes in who just saw something. He's like, Celtics guy?

I was like, yeah. He goes, yeah, you're on the Celtics thing. I was like, yep. He's like, what are you doing changing into a suit in the I'm like, I think I'm hosting a movie premiere. So I call my girlfriend. I'm like, hey, just so you know, lower your expectations a little bit here because I'm afraid there's some sort of mix up.

So then I go back out front and I'm standing like an asshole with my notepad of the note. And they're like, what's going on? I go, am I like, what are we doing? Where's the premiere? And then finally somebody's like, yeah, there's no, there's no, like, no one's here. Did you think like Tom Hardy was going to be here or Nick Nol? No.

There's no one here. It's just we're doing a premiere or a test to see whatever. and then like a couple of the BCN girls come over. They look like Yeagermeister chicks. And she's like, do you want a poster? I'm like, you know, like you just, you feel like you'd be at the heart. You want to try the new pumpkin spiced Yeager? So I was like, no, I don't want to post her.

And then my girlfriend comes in looking like she's going to a wedding. Yeah. And she looks at me and she's like, what is going? I'm like, I have no idea. I have no idea what's going on. So then we go into the theater and the guy's like, hey, this is where you're going to give your speech. I'm like, all right, fine.

The movie's about to start. No one's there. They go out in the parking lot and find like six kids who just got a little cross practice smoking cigarettes in the parking lot and they just come piling in. There's no one in the theater. And I'm in a suit. She's all dressed up. She thinks I'm a bigger loser than she already did.

And now I get up and I'm like, all right. And the guy's like, here you go. He introduced, this is Ryan Rusillo from ESPN. And everyone's looking at me like, what is this? What is this guy? Like, what are we doing? When's the movie start? So I was like, you know, Gavin O'Connor and Miracle, and I'm like halfway through it, I was like, nobody's listening to anything I'm saying.

No one cares. There's no one in here. This whole thing is not even close to what they told me was going to be. So I just wrap it up immediately because I was like, who cares about all these notes? I'm like, enjoy the movie. And I sit down with her and she like puts her hand on my hand being like, I know you are raging furious inside because this is just not what it was supposed to be. And so because I went through that whole process of being that mad about it, it took me 15 minutes to go, wait, is this movie fucking awesome? because I was so convinced like, oh, and this is going to suck and I don't want to be here.

And then like in classic ESPN fashion after the fact, like they go, hey, and this probably wasn't even true, but they were like, Lionsgate is not happy with you. I'm like,

what? And they go, they said it was empty. And I go, no, no. I'm like, first of all,

Lionsgate doesn't even know. Like what happened? Like, it was up to me to pack the theater. I go, what happened to the people? What happened to the premiere? What happened to all that stuff?

You know, we had a bridgewater girl who dropped out, given out posters. Like, what are we talking about here? So it was just funny to go through that whole thing. And I'll never, obviously, I wasn't going to forget this movie because I loved it. But I'll never forget that experience because I remember stewing in my own anger for the beginning of the movie until it dawned on me.

I'm like, wait, this might be awesome. And there you go. Good story. That was one of the longest stories we've ever had on the rewatchables. I enjoyed it, though. Did you? Because I know you don't like when I go too long. No, I thought that was a really good one.

I was going to counter it with my story about going to Steve Levy's bar, but I'd rather do that on your podcast. I have a great story. I don't know if you've ever heard it, but you'll be out of your mind to let it. Remind me. I want all the Steve Levy content. Categories. Most rewatchable scene.

Tommy's first sparring partner scene with the Yo Rock. Give me favor, guy. Go back to your bag. We don't need anybody else getting hurt. Take a walk. Let's go. Watch his neck. Yo, Rock.

What's you do? Do you do? You leave Nick and Polly at home today? And then him just taking mad, what was the guy, is they mad dog? Yeah. Took him out. Goes over the trainer guy. You owe me 200 bucks.

You only 200 bucks. That seems awesome. Wait a minute. It's not just awesome. It's the best scene in the entire movie. It's fucking awesome. I do not. I can't watch that without getting the chills.

I freak out. I think everybody deep down wishes they were capable of something like that. Or maybe it's just me. But it is all-timer. especially when he starts with the front kick. And the guy's like, oh, you're going to be a hero? Like, oh, here we go. Like, this asshole thinks he's going to take out a real contender.

And he just works them. It's one of the best scenes. Ends with the guy's arms on the ropes. It's a nice touch. Really nice. And you know what I love too is the front desk guy nails it too. And they're like, hey, this guy signed his waiver. He's like, yeah, he's good.

Like, that was a really great little detail. Tommy asking the dad to help train him where they do the thing. there's no way to verify if anyone knows how to do this, but he's like, hey, you got to give me your pills. I heard some jiggling. And since this is about training,

you dump whatever it is you need to dump as far as those pills are concerned. I don't want to see him. In fact, handing them over right now. I know they're on you, Tommy. You sounded like a goddamn Morocco coming through the door. He's like, all right, gives them the pills.

He's like, I know there's one more. It's like, does anyone have these superpowers to know that you have two different pills? Pill bottles on you, but I liked it and I believed it. Really good training montage. You start worrying around the 50-minute mark. Like, are we getting the training montage? Can we get a training montage?

Are we sure? Are we going to build to something? And then he does the 2011 version of it. There's multi-screens. Screens getting bigger and smaller and just really good. I really enjoy montages and multi-screen experiences. When I watch it again last night, I go, you know, this is why Bill loves this. No one loves a montage to sell the story and speed up the deal more than you.

There's one thing I love more, the flashback montage, which we covered in the Miami Vice Cauderone's return last week. That guy killed my brother. Let me go backwards to when I was watching him. My brother got killed from afar, and I ran there in slow motion didn't get there in time. The buildup to Brennan's first fight and then the actual midnight fight, Frank Grillo's best part of the movie, just fucking kills it. the guy, Brian Callan, as the Joe Rogan guy,

hold the goldfish. And then the, there's a lot of Brian Collin in this towards the last half hour. He's doing a whole Rogan impersonation. But that trying to get out of that first round and grill is like, don't you tap! 10 seconds, John, very deep. 10 seconds.

10 seconds. Don't tap. Brendan, don't you tap. Hold on, Brendan. Colin doing his best to hang on. His whole world's about going to go from the day and night. Don't you tap. Don't you tap, don't you tap, Brendan.

Ah! Like, it's just really good. Really, really good. And that's like, you know, that's our first time in Sparta with a real match. They nail it. The montage again of Brendan and Tommy get in the final four. Just if you're fucking channels and you're near this part, you're like, all right. I'll bang this out.

Third round of Coba versus Brendan, which heading into it when Grillo in the corner does the, why are we here? Why are we here? It's fucking great. Goose bumps. If you don't knock them out, you don't have a home. It's like, good. I'm in. I'm really rooting for this guy now. I don't let him lose his hope. And then the entrance stuff for the final fight, I have that is great. The final fight, the whole thing. The cheap shot after the first round is awesome. The broken arm, him coming out. And then I think the most rewatchable for me is just the last round with the national song. that song coming in, how they edit it,

how it builds when it hits certain points of the song that tie into the action. I just think it's like honestly brilliant. I think it's one of the best endings ever does sports movie. So that's my list. Yeah. What do you got for most rewatchable?

So yeah, the first, the first fight. Yeah, when he sits there, he's like, yo, I'll fight him. And you're like, all right, you know, you know, and then he's like, this will go well. Yeah, if you get tuned up in here,

that's on you. Yeah, and he kind of has this, I don't know what he was, I wonder what the inspiration for Hardy's character wasn't that because now it sort of makes sense now that we've had another decade with him, but then when you look at him in inception, and he's so buttoned up and how capable he is

of playing some of these guys, but he plays tough guy probably as well as any of his contemporaries. I mean, if it were Matt Damon, as much as we love Matt Damon, yo, I'll fight him probably wasn't going to sell as well. But he's got this kind of slurring deal to him. I don't know, that thing just hypes me up, unbelievably so.

And then I don't, I don't think it's a rewatchable scene, but the best scene in the movie is Hardy at Noltey at the slot machines and then leading to Nolte's I had that in what's age the best because it's so painful to watch it. Yeah, because it's an incredible scene. I'm not sitting around going, hey, I want to watch that scene right now because it's that good. So let's just wait because it's not necessarily rewatchable.

I just think it's actually the best dialogue of the entire movie, those two guys at the slots. Take it somewhere else. In fact, you know what? Here's a cup. Why don't you take this and go get yourself some more of your shitty tapes and you go back to the room and you listen to some more

fish stories that no one gives a shit about and get out of here. Hardy is such a well let's go to the next one because I have him in what's age the best. The first one was Hardy's believability as this guy. So Hardy's in this movie. He's in

inception a year earlier and then he's Bain a year later. And I think at that point if we were talking like him as a basketball bear, he's basically like Luca Donchich right now. I always like to do the basketball movie comparisons where it's just like this guy's going to win multiple MVPs. He's had a really unique career.

I think he goes into these different movies, TV shows, whatever he's trying to do. Like this is a really weird character. I can't wait to play him. Seems to be his, he never wants to be the same person in anything. I think there's a path where he could have been, I don't know, like Leo Light,

maybe get the roles that Leo turns down. you're the first choice for any movie that doesn't get Leo. Interestingly enough, he's in that movie that Leo won the Oscar for The Revenant. He's really weird in that in a good way. I don't know what's missing with him, but he never got to be an A-plus lister.

But I think he's a really memorable actor. Like what do you think? Was this his destiny? Or is it just like he is almost like intentionally he doesn't want it? He's different, man. I mean, I know all of these, you know, you get to a certain level of being this, this high level of an actor and actress and they say, oh, they're a little different. And it's like, well, I just think you almost have to be as a person, but he seems to take it to another level, you know, like you'll be watching.

You ever see the YouTube videos of him rapping? And he's like serious about it. You're like, oh, okay. Like, there's another gear with this guy. You know, he's so good in Mad Max. And I guess during the filming of that, he was like, this is ridiculous. I have no lines. Like, what are we actually doing out here?

And the director's like, don't worry, don't worry, don't worry. It's going to work. It's going to work. And it absolutely works. Not only is he great in Inception where he actually gets to like play a normal guy a little bit more. And he's so good at it. In Dunkirk, he's just kind of this hero. He's stoic.

He's almost like a guy from the past. Yeah. The stoic hero. He doesn't even need to say a ton. He just has this presence about him. And they're probably just, look, let's face it. There wasn't the same buy-in. with him until probably the dark night and everything on since. And then again, Venom and he's got

the next one coming out. But any of these guys that are at a certain level, they figure, hey, let's just attach myself to one of these Marvel storylines. And we're going to be having multiple beach houses. And now it's like, it doesn't matter if you're in these anymore. I think there are certain actors where, you know, like a DiCaprio is probably never going to be in the Marvel universe. But I think almost everybody below that is like, hey, I'll take my swing in it too. So yeah, he's not like, I don't know, the dropy was really good. Well, I think of it like movies that, like his quote unquote peers, like he couldn't, I don't feel like he could have carried the Martian.

There's like the everyday guineess role. I'm not sure he can do. I think he has to be a character. You know what I mean? Like he, even we bought a zoo, which isn't a movie that worked. But I just wouldn't have wanted to see Tom Hardy and like the lighthearted we bought a zoo. You know, like everything has to be some sort of intense version of. him something with him, it seems like.

No, and if you read the Martian book, the author admits, like right away, I'm a dork, you know? Yeah. And the humor, Hardy wasn't going to be able to sell that, you know, because there were some moments where it was sort of corny and cheesy, but that was the whole point because that's the way the book played out so that Damon was going to do the exact same thing with it. He clearly likes, I mean, I don't know. Does he ever do any interviews?

There's something about him, but he's just a little bit different. So he likes some of these roles that. I wonder if Bain fucked him up. Craig, is your mic on? Yeah. What's your generation's relationship with Tom Hardy? That's probably Bain. Yeah, I think Bain kind of overpowered him, and I don't think he liked it.

I think that was such an iconic role. I think it seems like a lot of the choices he's made since them were to kind of not be trapped in that I'm the guy who was Bain. I don't know. Yeah, but then he did Mad Max three years later, which is maybe the closest to Bain. But he barely talks in it, though. You know, like you said, like he's, I don't know. maybe if somebody out there knows the answer to us.

Morewood's age the best. The concept of Sparta, there was a movie Dennis Quaid made in the early 80s called Tough Enough, which is, if it's ever on TV, I would encourage it. It's basically like a tough man contest, and he's trying to win like 50K.

And it's like a couple years after the Rocky and Rocky 2. And it was just a really good idea. The movie didn't do that well, but it's a good sports movie. This is a way better version of that, like the whole concept of 16, middleweights, you know, winner takes all, four fights, basically.

I like that. I have Knowlty and the slot machine scene as a what's age the best. That scene's just awesome. Hardy's awesome. When he throws the coins at Nolte, you're like, oh, no. Like, it actually, like, hurts. You feel so much pain for him.

And then it really pays off when he has the alcoholic kind of setback, because you know, because how painful the slot machine thing was. We talked about how great the fight scenes were, and the actress who plays his wife, Jennifer Morrison, She was in house. She's been in a few things.

I thought she was great in this. And then everything else we covered. Anything else you got for what stage is best? I just want to add to the slot machine scene because the dialogue is perfect, right? It's like, okay, you want this dramatic moment. You want something that sends Nolte's character into a spiral to relapse and just drink hard booze in his hotel room all by himself listening to Moby Dick on a Walkman. All right?

So we need to get to that point. We're in the middle of the day, this guy's in this absolute bender, crying his eyes out with a handle of a Canadian club in his hand, right? and I don't think it was a handle it was small wait is there ever been a better bender by the way maybe that should have been in what stage the best moby dick out of walkman Canadian whiskey and a blood alcohol level of point four I've heard about benders that go a little differently than than moby dick on books on tape yeah but you needed to find a way like how could you hurt nulti bad enough to make him do that and they did it and it wasn't forced you know like sometimes those scenes would be like hey we know we want to pay off here so let's just hey build a little bit you know

build up tension. The lines from Hardy are so stinging and nasty. And when you see Nolte, who admitted that the role, he goes, look, I drink every day in my life until I was 48 years old. So he had some stuff. He mentions like I had demons to go back and check on to get to that point. And when his face is that red and his eyes are shot the way they are and he's back screaming lines from Moby Dick and Hardy's face. And then it kind of breaks Hardy to then care about his dad again. There are lots of sports movies that try for that ultimate pinnacle of this emotional, you know, this peak.

And a lot of times it doesn't work. And that's the brilliance of this movie is you have this, like that, that scene is straight out of any of the dramas of all time. Really, it is. And by the way, you guys did a perfect sports movie that was entirely believable. You had those two elements where they felt real, like they weren't forced. there was no part of it. You were like,

yeah, you're reaching there a little bit because you wanted this emotional breakdown. And it's the one time that we see from Hardy, it's like the one moment from Hardy where we see him stop fighting. Right. I was thinking my relationship with Nick Dulte over the years

because Richman Poor Man was like, the two biggest miniseries for TV that I remember as a kid were Ruth's and Richman Poor Man. Richman poor man was a huge thing. And it made him and Peter Strauss, both made them stars. Like, Nick Dulte immediately has this movie career. He's in North Dallas 40, which is an awesome movie still.

Really highly recommend that. Paints a lot of the picture of what's going to happen with the NFL. He's in 48 hours with my guy, Eddie. And I just felt like he was one of the biggest stars in the world. But he was also, as you said, somebody who drank every day until he's 48. He was supposed to host SNL when 48 hours, the week that came out. And he bailed with like, and Eddie Murphy had to host show. He was on such a bender the whole week.

He couldn't host the show. So Eddie had to co-host it for him. And by the time we got to the late 80s, his career had basically flamed out. And then he had down and out in Beverly Hills. He was able to have a resurgence. He made the Streisand movie. So there was a few comebacks here. This was his last great moment in a movie or a TV show.

And it's too bad he didn't win because he really had a great career. What's age the worst? You could say the first 40 minutes just from a rewatchable movie standpoint or slow. But I think they're rightfully slow and I think you do too. I'm just saying as a rewatchable, this movie's 140 minutes. It's an investment. And sometimes that's tough or rewatchable. More would stage the worst.

Students, I just feel like every student would think it's the coolest thing ever if their teacher was a secret MMA guy. The guy's immediately a fucking hero in 2021. So that's kind of it. In 2011, there was still that human cockfighting kind of stink to MMA with some people. So nowadays it'd be like, whoa, Mr. C. He's doing MMA. Yeah, but the kids

liked him. It was just that he was at a strip club, but he was in the parking lot of the strip club. Right, maybe the strip club. Would school, would they frown on that now? I don't think so. Who knows with schools?

Gavin plays the Dana White guy, JJ, the hedge fund guy in this. And I think there could have been a different actor. I think there was more potential. He's not bad in it, but he's in a few scenes. Like I think that could have been a juicy part.

part for, when we get to recasting couch, I'll tell you who I thought. I just thought of this, Brendan's wife, she's a wet blanket for like a split second and then comes around. We've never had the sports movie where we've had the way for spouse urging the guy to fight,

like basically bullying him into it. We're losing our house. You have to do this. I just want to see it once. Be a man. Save our house, you motherfucker. And then I could have used one more Tommy Brendan's scene

between when we first have that scene with the hour, five minute mark, I think we could have had another scene somewhere between that scene and the end. Just like one other one. Like even like somebody's getting coffee and they just pass by each other or something. We never see them in the same scene again

until the end. I just feel like there was ample territory to do something. I like rule breakers. I like it. You know what I mean? The movie is awesome and they decided to not have those guys

have more dialogue. I'm sure some of the notes I'm surprised there wasn't something in there because I'd have to imagine somebody who's like, look, if it's these two brothers, I need more out of these two, and I'm glad they didn't do it because it worked this way. Casting what ifs?

We mentioned they wrote the Nolte thing for Nolte. Studio did not want to cast him. They held firm. He got cast. Kurt Engel played the Russian. Which I love. I love that Russian villains. They were ahead of their times and sort of

after the times, too. They kind of right now. Yeah, the Russian villains coming back, I feel like. Cobah was the nickname given to Yosef Stalin. It's a little underground there. Brian Cowen admitted that his MMA character was heavily based on Joe Rogan. They're friends, obviously. He's been on that podcast a million times.

I thought they should have leaned into it and called him Mo Logan. That should have missed character's name. Lo Jogan. Lo Jogan, Mo Logan, something like that. Frank Grillo based his character on the famed MMA trainer, Greg Jackson. Want to hear my Frank Grillo story? I do because I feel like Grillo, you want to talk underrated. And again, I'm not saying that anybody's going to cast him in the next Christopher Nolan movie,

but Grillo kind of brings it, man. Grillo married to the governor in Yellowstone, who has the affair with Kevin Costner. Does he know that? Yeah. Oh, okay, never mind. Where they were married. The TV show. The TV show Yellowstone.

Yeah, okay. She's an actress. Their son, a friend of Ben Simmons, who's been in the same school with him forever, said playdates at Frank Rillis House. Right. Have gone to pick up Ben Simmons and Frank Rillo answered door. Super nice guy. Yeah.

Shout out to him. I love, like, living down here at the beach, people are like, hey, do you see any? I'm like, no, never, ever. I saw the guy who plays the stand-up comedian. and Mad Men that tries to get after Betty Draper that Don knocks out at the after house. I saw him walking around the other day. And I was like, you know, I never see, people always ask me that I live out here. My world, it's like we live in two different countries.

Your day to day and my day to day, it's pretty interesting. Probably not the best part of this podcast. We'll keep it moving. Frank was in a Marvel movie and they had the red carpet premiere and they brought Ben. His son's name is Rio. No, and Ben, there's actually pictures of Ben on the red carpet with Frank. and his wife in Rio. It's like, Ben Simmons just continues to step in shit

with the greatest ever things happen to him. I don't get it. Best that guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. This guy has won before. He's won for other movies. I still don't know this guy's name. The guy who works in the high school,

who alerts Joel Edgerton that the school committee's pissed, whatever that guy's name is, he was the right-hand guy and Dave for Kevin Klein. He was the dad and Matt. love with Chris O'Donnell and Drew Barrymore. And he's just been in a bunch of stuff. And I don't know what his name is.

One of his biggest roles is V. He's a Veepe? Yeah. That's right. He's the Vip guy. Yeah. I just was looking at him the other day. Classic Joey Pants because he's in everything.

I know him. I can name seven things he's in and I don't know what his name is. Do we need to look up his name or is this part of his team? No, I don't, I think, oh, Dad and Transformers, Craig Horrible like says. I don't want to know his name. I'd rather live in darkness. Vincent Hanna, give me all you got a word

for best overacting. Nolte dials it up, but I think it's totally justified. It's justified. He dials it up, but it worked. It worked. This guy's carrying around demons, man.

Demons. I don't feel like anybody overacts except for the guy who plays Mad Dog. That guy's really trying to work the smarmy bad guy, even like in the second fight

when they have the stare down. You know who I thought sucked in this was John Anick? he John Annick's not in this. He is in it. Is he the play-by-play guy? No, he's the host when they announced Sparta. He's there with the tap-out.

The tap-out guys are in this constant. Oh, well, you know, John, Annick. So let's get him. Anick is one of my best friends, and he's going to laugh. We'll give him this. We'll give him an award. Judd Nelson Award for a person who seems like they're in a different movie. I actually felt like everybody felt like they were in this movie.

Is that a new award? That's amazing. We came up with it after New Jack City because Judd Nelson's just in a different movie, the entire movie. movie for New Jackson. That's my new favorite award. What a great concept? Thank you. What movie are you in? I love this now. Now I'm going to start watching this way. It was a Chris Ryan invention. Yeah, Jed Nelson's just over here during that entire movie. I don't know you guys are doing, but I'm making an art film over here. The Deanne Waiters Award,

Grillo, I think he's eligible. Kurt Angle is Cobb. And then Don Lemon. There's a Don Lemon cameo. We're going to put him in. I think Grillo is really good in this, and he's the winner for me, unless you have anybody else. Plus I've been to his house. I can't believe how much I love the guy. I love the guy at the front desk at the gym. Front desk guy. All right.

Front desk guy. Because he's there later. He's there later really pumped up about the whole thing. But if it were for him videotaping Tommy, then maybe none of this stuff happens. So you want to talk efficiency. His PER is like in the 50s. So let's say Grillo,

but honorable mention to front desk guy. Recasting Couch. So Stanley 2. as JJ the bald hedge fund guy trying to make Spar to happen. I think he takes that role and he does like three fun things with it. Because I think that guy has to be a little self-aware and a little bit of a self-parity, but not too much. And I think he would,

I think he would have hit it. Plus it was the nice little Stanley Tucci run there. Oh, he's good to have Stanley Tucci in a movie. I think it would have been good. I think it would have been worth flying him in for three scenes. He needs more, though. That's a waste of Stanley Tucci. No, Stanley, just come in two days.

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All right, half-ass internet research. Hardy gained 28 pounds and then use that muscle, brought it right to Bain for Dark Night Rises. So great job by him. Injuries during the production. Joel Edgerton tore his MCL in the cage during production. It would be fine. And they halted fight scenes for six weeks for him to recover.

Tough one. Tom Hardy. He's not really fighting. So MCL, that's, that's, so Edgerton's a little, he doesn't recover from injury well. Well, he's Australian. I'm sure he was really hurt. The Australians are tough. I'm not doubting us, John.

I'm fine, mate. I'm fine. Just keep the cameras rolling. Tom Hardy, broken toe, broken ribs, and a broken finger. Hears injuries during the movie. The writers, Gavin O'Connor, Anthony Tambakis, they selected the song About Today by The National. That's the final song.

To close the movie before writing the scene, you'll love this because you're a writer. They played the song on a continual loop at O'Connor's house while they worked on the final scene. She played the song over and over and over again until they got all the beats to it. first day of shooting Nick Nolte was apparently so good

in some local diner scene that the crew game was standing ovation and then it didn't make the movie the location for the scenes in Iraq was actually a parking line in Pittsburgh the movie has been remade

as a Bollywood movie called Brothers Yeah, I saw that. It was a blockbuster. It was like one of the biggest movies of the decade in India and then they also made it with the same title in Russia.

And then this is what O'Connor said about how they released the movie. He said, my position was he wanted a slow build let's platform it 100 screens 200 screens let word of mouth build he was like back then no one knew who Tom or Joel were

Nick wasn't putting people in seats anymore I felt like for the way to have movie in life would be to let it slowly build percolate similar and then like popcorn keep it going but they wanted to come out with it in a way stronger way so they released in a bunch of theaters and it didn't do well and they pulled it I'm obviously partly to blame for that

as we know at the top yeah including brain tree Apex Mountain. O'Connor. It can't be his Apex Mountain because the movie didn't do that well. But I think it's like his belated Apex Mountain because it's such a great achievement. And I think it did, at least in Hollywood circles, it wasn't one of those things that were like, oh, your movie didn't work. We're not getting it anymore. I think he actually gained respect in the industry for it.

So I would say it's his artistic Apex Mountain. I don't know what his actual Apex Mountain is. He might have had more successful stuff. Tom Hardy, it's got to be either Bain or Mad Max. He probably just isn't enough in Dunkirk and Inception, even though I love him in those. He doesn't do a ton of Dunkirk, but I'm going to save everybody. I'm going to say Bain because that movie was huge. He was huge in it. He's got Inception, then Warrior than this,

and it just felt like a bunch of great stuff was going to happen for him. Atlantic City. Apex? Has it ever gotten better for Atlantic City than Sparta? You know, I had never been until I did a remote for for Ringer. Pretty grim there now. Shout out to Belvedere. Yeah. That was, that was, I remember I had never been.

So I was like, hey, bring me up to the boardwalk. I go, but drop me off a few blocks before so I can kind of get a real feel as I go to the boardwalk. The guy was like, yeah, that's not a great idea. Yeah, that mistake. Atlantic City coming around, but for now, this might be the apex unless it's, uh, the guys in rounders going down to, uh, the casino. Welcome to the Chesterfield South. What about Sopranos, though, just in reference, where the Pine Marens and they go, hey, how about after this, we go down to AC?

That's true. Somebody has to call it AC for it to be the Apex Mountain. Edgerton, I think it actually was the Apex for him. He's awesome in this. And I actually, I looked at his career and he's another one who I think made some, you know, some intense choices. I don't think he wanted to be the A-plus Lister. He made that weird movie. It's called The Gift, I think.

which I thought was really good. But yeah, I thought he was 100% leading man, held his own with Tom Hardy. He's really good in this. Nolte, no. Staying on Edgerton, though, it looked like it was going to go for him. And I loved him in this.

And then he did, what did he do where he was bald and it was kind of weird? To me, it's like, because everyone at the ringer loves Clive Owen. That's another one where it's like, I felt like there should have been more great movies from him. Didn't happen. Because you know what?

I didn't love with Edgerton is his Boston accent and Black Mask when he plays John Connolly. That movie's bad. Yeah. That movie didn't, that book is so good. You know, basically the departed was basically, you know, they basically did black mass. The movie was just janked. It was, I think Depp was at a weird point in his life and there was no way to make the movie it.

It should have worked. It's not terrible. It's not terrible. But it didn't, it didn't. I think we just look, all those of us that are from, not from the area, the expectations for it were through the roof. And again, the book is insane. So, yeah.

Too bad. Underground MMA movies, 100% yes, for Apex Mountain. Frank Grillo, he's gone on to do some really good stuff. I mean, he was in the perch. Got to give him the purge. Perch was, he was in one of those purge movies. Are you a perch guy? Oh, yeah.

That's a Ben Simmons staple. He loves the perch. Does that concern you? He likes it that much? He loves the perch. he asked me once like could this actually happen and would we be ready if it did? I'm like Ben, don't worry about it.

It's fine. But then during the pandemic, it started to become like, eh, maybe we should. I like my chances in the perch better than you. Yeah, you'll be good. You've been training for it. Pittsburgh, I still feel like the 79 Pirates

is probably Apex Mountain because you had the Steelers that year. Yeah, Steelers, deer hunter, pirates. Brian Callen, probably. And then, uh, Sparta, definitely. Picky Knits. Would it really be this easy to get into Sparta? 16 people for 5 million just like, hey, can you make a call?

I'm guessing it wouldn't be this easy. It probably wouldn't happen to both brothers. Right. Okay, fair. We talked about the health risks of doing a everyday tournament in 2011. I think in general, this movie makes a little more sense than the early 2000s, like 2004, as MMM. is coming up. 2011, MMA's pretty established

at that point. Even ESPN was acknowledged. Yeah, but if you're doing it, I mean, that was kind of they're out with this. It's like, hey, we're not doing the UFC.

It's this hedge fund guy. He decided, I mean, it's a good line where he goes, everybody wants to know the toughest guy in your town that we want to know who the toughest guy in the world is.

I'm putting up the money in my own. Yeah, it's not like the contract is Stanley Tucci. Yeah. Well, at least the next question. Could you really do a Sparta tournament in 2011 without the UFC?

Would you be able to get 16 guys? I guess you could because they had Bellator they're going against. You could get 16 decent guys. All right. I've watched. No, but real quick, like I watched one of the other. It wasn't even Bellator. I mean,

we're talking way below that. And you watch that. And, you know, it's kind of like you would expect. But it was like watching bad high school basketball compared to the NBA. There's such an appreciation for the skills. Like, even if you think like,

oh, this guy sucks or he got worked, you go and watch some of the lower level, like real other MMA stuff. I'm not just talking about like, you know, a couple guys beating the shit out of each. other, you'll go, oh my God. Like, yeah, I guess these guys are that amazing.

So, I mean, sure, you can find the depth of do it, but would you find enough names in there? Would there be retreads in there where it would get enough? And I just think it would be hard unless you had the main guys in. A couple internet things. I think Tommy's desertion storyline comes out way sooner. It's 2011. We have the internet.

If this Sparta tournament is becoming even a little bit of a phenomenon, people are Googling him trying to figure out who he actually is. I think it comes out. He goes a little Dick Whitman on us, but that made sense more coming out of Korea. Yeah, in 1950s, you can do it, 2011, a little harder. Same thing with them being brothers in real life. I feel like that comes out before the finals. But, you know, we did have the internet in a really strong way by 2011.

I can't imagine how Brendan was able to fight again after that COBA fight. I think you need like three weeks to recover just after the COBA fight. That was his third fight. just the next day he's fighting he's fighting Tom Hardy this is my biggest nitpick though it's a 16 person tournament and Brendan is a 1,000 to 1 underdog

that's ridiculous there's that you like I would be a 1,0001 nobody who's actually somebody who fought in the UFC would be a 1,001 underdog in a tournament unless they had like one leg 1,000 to 1 you don't think so 1,000 to 1? I don't think anybody in the tournament

tournament is more than like 75 to 1. They're not going to assume that kind of risk. It's too easy to have an upset. You're right. You're right. But I mean, we're still talking about a guy that was a physicist teacher that got in because the main guy got hurt.

But again, that's where there'd be probably a little bit of pushback from the MMA community by being like, wait, this guy was in your camp and now he's in this whole thing. But you know what? We're going to let him pass on that one. You're right, though. As far as assuming risk, they wouldn't even put that on the board. Any other nitpicks?

You like montages more than I do. Okay. But they do move the movie a lot. long. It did feel like, as Gavin says, like it was a bit of a, hey, let's give Rocky a little love here. So I understand reason behind it. So I'm cool with it.

What's your favorite sports movie montage ever? I have mine right now. I just think my favorite montage ever is Revenge of the Nerds when they spruce up the house. I, uh, Rocky, too. From the moment she wakes up from the coma, she's like, I just got one thing for you. win win and then he looks over at

Mickey and Mickey's like well what are we waiting for and then the music sticks in and we go and we're off and he's taking the punches in the stomach and we go and we go

and then he finally has the sprint with the kids and there's that one kid who fucking stays with them for like 50 yards he does all the other kids there's that one kid he can't shake him

and then finally he puts on the jets but that one kid, I actually wanted to do a Grantland story in him like 10 years ago, and we couldn't figure out who the kid was. Just like that one kid who stayed stayed in the scene for 10 seconds was Stallone. Anyway, that's my favorite montage. Who is this kid? Who's this kid? Who's this hero?

Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? Well, this is, ironically, we had already decided to do this movie, and O'Connor said in an interview that they're making this into a TV show, here's what he said. It's the Daily Beast. It's in the spirit of the movie. It's going to be about the painful reality as a contemporary America. It's going to explore social

ideas and the idea of fighting for something bigger than yourself, allowing the audience to fall in love with the characters, blah, blah, blah. That's the DNA I'm taking it from the movie. There will be Sparta and literally every season, four characters, two men, two women, all fighters from different part of the worlds, and the show is about what's the fight

outside the cage, fighting around poverty, incarceration, addiction, whatever it is, that's what I want to explore. That's the juice. That's the fist pumping, stand up and applaud kind of stuff with the show. I'm in. Say no more. No brainer.

No brainer. Here's what I wonder, okay? One of my favorite parts of this movie, and I would love to know when they had this idea, so Tom Hardy's character doesn't have entrance music. No entrance music, and even better, when he kicks the shit out of the guy, he leaves immediately. Yeah. I want to know who came up with that and did they go, whoa, that's awesome.

Because it works so well in the movie, despite the fact that I'm always obsessed with like, what would your entrance music be? Yeah. I always thought power of love, Hewey Lewis would be a good one. But when I saw that the first time, I thought it was the coolest thing. And I have to imagine there's probably been somebody that's done it. But I don't know if they came over that on their own, if somebody's done it since then for real. And it was just a fight, none of us was on the radar.

Obviously, I don't know. everything that's going on there. But if they just came up with that on their own, I would have loved to have known that kind of an epiphany moment where they're going, that's awesome. Let's do that.

He doesn't wait around. When he wins, he just bolts out of the cage to emphasize his rage. We should have put that on what stage is the best. This will be a good show. I'm excited for it. I hope that he's really involved with it,

like Michael Mann style and not just like, I helped write the pilot, and then I went off to make a movie. Probably in answerable questions. We covered like why wasn't Tom Hardy a bigger star, but I think he's pretty big, man. Yeah, yeah.

No, I'm saying, like, could he be like on the, could he have been on the Leo level with a couple of different choices? I don't know. Okay, but like, could he do, there's a softness to Leo that Hardy's never going to have, which I think Hardy wants that edge. So if you think of the Leo rules, there to, Hardy could never be catch me if he can, because again, he's playing somebody who's really young. Couldn't be the aviator. He couldn't be the aviator. Could he have been the blood diamond, could he have been blood diamond guy? Yes.

Yeah, easily. No problem. I think he could have to. Okay. What about, well, Revenant, he could have switched roles. Could he been Wolf for Wall Street? I hate to doubt him. He could have been the friend, right?

He wouldn't have been the hero. Yeah, I hate to doubt Hardy, but there's just something when DiCaprio wants to be soft. And I mean that in a good way. There's a softness. I don't want to use the word cute. There's always a rough edge with Hardy. And that's a harder sell as like the leading man of some of these other DiCaprio roles. Which role of the town would you have wanted him to play?

Jim. But I don't want to do that necessarily. you don't do that to Renner because what happened the Renner so good. I think he could have played both. I think he could have played

the Affleck part and the Renner part. I actually I mean he would have been unbelievable as Jim but you can't do that to Renner. So I should probably

take it back. I like how you got mad at the question. Wait, we can't do that to Ritter. I'm not answering this. Yes, that's actually my official statement.

I'm not answering this. I'm not answering your question. I don't want to do this to Rennar. I'm just starting this out. It's an unanswerable question. Is this a better movie if Tommy fights COBA in the finals? Because COBA beats his brother in like the fifth round. The brothers never fight.

And we kind of set up a sequel. No. No. No, because this, think about this. The fight part is real. It's a total buy-in. There's no moment we were like, is a little fraudulent. And, you know, spare me, you know, MMA blogger, you know, like, I'm sure there's

some stuff you thought, like, oh, the Camaro, you never do it that way. All right, got it. Um, you have the emotion. Noted. You have the emotional scenes that are a lot of times forced, like, hey, we need some emotion. They're unbelievable. And then you're going, okay, here's a deal. Here's the script. We've got these two brothers. It's an strange family here. Terrible dynamic. Hardy's just tough to get along with it every turn. And then you're going. is there going to be a moment that we can close this with where everybody feels good about, which isn't super, super predictable?

Because look, I'm rooting for Hardy through the whole damn thing. But by having his shoulder snapped, and then he comes out there like a wounded animal, throwing one arm jabs. And Brendan's going, like, what are you doing? What are you doing? There's this moment where the brothers are finally on the same page after two hours.

Yeah. And you're not mad about the outcome. you're not disappointed. You know, you still are leaving the theater happy, which is a really important part of the whole formula of this stuff. And yet you don't feel like if you were me, you're going, well, whatever, Hardy's arm was broke. He would kick his ass the next time they fought.

There's a lane where this gets derailed a little, where this movie sucks. Not that these guys would ever make a bad, but you get my point. Like, if you said, hey, this is what we're doing, this thing could really easily get off the tracks and feel cheesy and unfulfilling. And it's the opposite of that.

unanswerable question you might be able to answer this is it he once is his elbow break or a shoulder break I thought it was a shoulder snap like a separated shoulder or broken shoulder he says did you hear it did you hear it break I think that's what he says in the corner when they go back in after the third round I just don't know what kind of pain that is like we were watching we're tipping this on a Friday the Cowboys game last night a D-back his elbow just went the opposite way it should go yeah it was like wow that hurts. Like, I don't feel like that guy could have been like, no, let me play one more quarter and then take

me to the hospital. Like, that guy was done. He's like, get me the fuck out of here. He doesn't have the inner rage that Tom Hardy has. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, I don't, was there an MMA example of somebody having an injury like that and continuing to go or would they stop the fight? There was a Frank Meir fight. This is years ago. And I forget who he was fighting, heavyweights. And Meir got him in some sort of arm bar where he was standing and the guy was below. So, It was almost like he was holding his arm forward. You know, like, you know what I mean? Like he was holding a bag and he leans back.

And you can see the first forearm bone snap. And then the second one. So now the arm is like totally bent back and the guy never fucking tapped. And so Mears like, whoa. And then the ref sees it. They're like, it's over. It's over. Oh, man.

Tim maybe, I feel disrespect. Because this guy was such a bad. He lost. And then Meir, you know, after their interview him, they're like, did you know his arm broke? He's like, dude. he's like, I felt it start to snap, but whatever camp he was out, like it was, I don't know if was an American kickbox or whatever. He was just like, those guys don't fucking tap, man.

He's like, so whatever, you know? And when you watch the replay, it was one snap and then the second snap. And then the guy who lost, who had his arm broke, he was kind of like, what the hell's going on down here? And mirror, I mean, it's one of the all time fights that I've seen. And I wish I'm doing a discredit to the opponent and the camp because it basically was this camp was known as those guys just don't tell. They don't, everybody says, oh, I don't tap, I don't tap.

He's like, those guys don't fucking tap. And here he was, he just had his arm snapped in two pieces and didn't tap. I think when you do MMA, your pain sensors almost get dulled. I think you can absorb amounts of pain that are just not normal for normal human beings. A lot of stuff you check, like your shins and a lot of your elbow nerves are shot. Like, you learn to get those out of the way. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? Great question

Probably You could go with the Walkman With the Moby Dick You can have all the coins That Tom Hardy threw it Nick Gulte You could have the little Like pullover thing

That Tom Hardy wore to the ring Probably just like Hardy's fight trunks Or something Yeah I was thinking like fight trunks Or like didn't they have like little mitt They have those MMA What are those gloves calls? Yeah gloves

They didn't have a special name Yeah the gloves Game worn gloves loves, I think would be good. Who won the movie for you? Nolte. Nolty. There's so much sympathy for him. And it's, he crushes it, man. He absolutely crushes it. And you feel really sad for him when he has the relapse. And then he has the kind of happy smile at the end.

Yeah, I think Nolty wins. Hardy would be the only other option, I think. I was thinking Hardy, but I think you won me over with Nulte. Does you ever feel sad for him in the movie? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Do you think Hardy could play Jim in the town? You know, if the town were a series, Hardy's Jim's older brother that just got out of Walpole,

who's even more dangerous, and he taught Jim his ways. If you called me and you were like, hey, they're making the town a series. I'm going to be in the writer's room. I have to leave the ringer. I'd be so excited for you. Like, really?

You're going to write it in the town? This is like a dream come true. Can they put you in it? You could have been like the driver. Yeah, I could have done that. I could have done that driver role. If there's a town remake, just call Rosillo. Before we go, Craig, you never saw this movie.

No. You haven't seen a lot of rewatchable movies. You were blown away, stunned, and almost in disbelief by how good it was. Yeah, Rassel was talking about the Yeager Meister girls. I'm ready to hand out posters for Warrior now to get people to see this damn movie. Because most of the movies I haven't seen her, like, you know, it's like Ronan in the 90s. I was so surprised I hadn't. seen this movie. It's one of my friend's favorite movie. He always told me to watch it. I never did

because I'm not a huge MMA person, but fuck, is this movie good? It's so good. Do you feel like this is a guy's movie or is it a movie you can watch with your girlfriend or wife? Because my wife doesn't like this movie, but she's not an MMA person. No, I think this is pretty heavily a guy movie. I mean, maybe not, but it's just, it's pretty brutal. The last like 40 minutes are pretty hard to watch sometimes. That girl I brought to the premiere dumped me pretty soon after that. I don't know. I don't know if it was the movie or me, but... If you have a picture from that, you got to put it on Instagram. If you have a picture from that

night. I don't think there is one, because there's no one there to take pictures. You want a paparazzi? You want a poster? You want a warrior poster? Warrior, so not available on any streaming service for some reason, but you can rent it. You can also buy it on

Amazon. It's like $4 to rent on Amazon, but you could actually buy the movie for five, which I happily did. So now I get to watch Sparta whenever I want. Ricillo, we can hear in the Ryan Rissillo podcast. Producer Craig, Craig Horbach produced this one. Listen to the fantasy football show, which has been fucking awesome this year. Really helped me with my draft.

They're doing, what is it, Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday this week? Yeah. First week. So, yeah, we're covering football over the place here at the Ringer. We will see you next week with another rewatchable. As Priscilla, thanks for popping up. Absolutely.