The Rewatchables - ‘What About Bob?’ With Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

Episode Date: May 4, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan head up to Lake Winnipesaukee to annoy Dr. Leo Marvin as they revisit the 1991 comedy ‘What About Bob?’ starring Bill Murray and Richard Dreyfuss. Hosts: Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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where you can hear the big picture with Sean Fantasy and higher learning with Van Lathen and the Midnight Boys on the Ringer first feed with Van Lathen and Charles Holmes. Coming up. I feel good. I feel great. I feel wonderful. What about Bob is next?

Why don't I start? It's Bill Murray. No, I'm not. On the loose. False alarm. Off the wall. I don't have any jammies. At the door. I'm talking to my fish. In the elevator. Out of control.

I'm going to explode. And on vacation. I'm sailing! In America's number one comedy hit. It just makes my lips numb to think about it. Bill Murray. Richard Reifis. What About Bob?

Grated PT. Now playing at a theater near you. Check newspapers for showtimes. All right, Sean Fantasy is here. Van Lathan is here. This is a movie that I really enjoyed when I saw it in the theater, and it's worn me down over the next 30 years. like Bob in the movie wears down Dr. Leo Marvin's entire family. What about Bob? A movie that the

three of us love. I don't know if that's a 100% opinion out there. I think there's some people that maybe don't totally get it. To me, this is like one of the great Bill Murray movies ever. This movie kills me. I think it's almost perfect. I don't know why I love it so much. Van, you're a therapy guy. Walk me through the therapy piece of this. and how it relates to why you love this movie? Well, I didn't know that I was going to be a therapy guy when I was watching this film as a kid. I actually thought that, like, everybody else did,

that Bob was nuts. But then when I rewatched it and I'm looking at all the things that Bob is scared of, I was like, hey, I've had the time where I was scared of elevators, where I was scared of random cardiac arrest when I was scared of all of that stuff. So it makes sense.

But as a kid, though, this was a movie that I watched with my mom and my grandmother. Because I keep saying this about Bill Murray. He exists in a very unique place in movie stars. He's a guy that, like, at a point you saw him and you just knew it was time to have fun. Like, whatever he was, you just knew it was time to have a good time. And my grandmother, Mama Mo, loves nothing more than somebody being driven up a wall. That's her movie. And she would be like, I love old Bob.

Put Bob on. And then we would watch the movie. So, like, it, it's one of those things that we really watch, like, as a family because it exists in a very, it's a very heady movie in a lot of ways because it's dealing with, like, psychology and mental illness and all that. But it's also like a family comedy. So that's kind of where I fell in love with the film. As far as it relates to therapy, I know that my psychiatrist feels this way.

because I wake up, I'm like, yo, man, I'm a little sluggish this morning. I can't focus. Is this a side effect of the medication? Hey, Van, I'm in Barbados. Thanks. You know what I mean? But I love the movie and a half for decades now. Sean, you're a Bill Murray guy.

Proudly. Proudly. Is this top four for you, top five, top seven? I just think that you can't do it that way because he has two phases. He has 1980 through 1995. and then he's got in 1996 through the future. So it's like pre-Rushmore, post-Rushmore. And I see him as two, because he's pursuing two different things.

And this is right in the sweet spot of phase one. This is where he is like, I am the star of every movie, every movie that I am in, I am basically improvving, 80% of the movie and making it that much better. This is like a fun movie with a fun premise, but if you don't have a genius at the center of it, it probably is not the subject of a rewatchables.

We've seen movies like this before, the odd couple, the in-laws. there's a lot of movies where there's like a straight guy and a crazy guy and they don't get along and the crazy guy's driving the straight guy up a wall. This one though is very special because it's Murray at a very, very special moment in his career. See, I would argue Murray had three phases, not two. Okay. Are you going to go SNL? I think everything up to 84 was phase one. And then post Ghostbusters all the way through the mid-90s was phase two, right? Where Ghostbusters was such a phenomenon. And he was already a gigantic star and a comedy, budding comedy legend. But then

Ghostbusters happens. And then it's like, all right, well, just put him on a poster. People are going to go see it. But then he has, he has, what about Bob and Groundhog Day, pretty close together and Quick Change, which was kind of the underrated Bill Murray movie. Love it. And that was like this kind of more adult version of Bill Murray, just comedy genius where he kind of had outlasted his, his competitors from the late 70s, early 80s, right? Belushi died. Chevi was kind of done by 89-90, and Bill Murray just kind of kept going

out of all those Saturday and Live guys. He was the one that endured. Acroyd was another one that faded out. I'm waiting for Bill Murray endgame since we're at the end of phase three of Bill Murray. You guys are emceeuing Bill Murray. You guys are putting Bill Murray. I really did not know.

That's why I love coming on this motherfucker, Because I didn't realize that Bill Murray had three phases. I just thought people had a career and you would write the movies. But you guys, there are three distinct phases of Bill Murray. I guess what I would ask you, Bill, is what's Bill Murray up to 84? Because they're not that many movies, though, right? There's meatballs. There's Caddyshack.

Is Caddyshack before 804? Stripes. So what are those? That's kind of like the building of the career type of deal, like young, hot comedy. First of all, you say what? of those, like, it's like, so Jordan won those three Bulls titles. So other than that, what really happened

for him? Meatballs, Caddyshack Stripes is iconic. And leans right into Ghostbusters. And at that point, his batting average is, he's also in Tootsie. And it's not like,

it's not like a super promoted. Nobody thinks of it as a Bill Murray, but he's actually amazing in Tootsie. And Tootsy, in general, is a complicated a movie we should do on this podcast, but it has really incredible performances, including Bill Murray. But I think up through 84, he was the one, like if we were doing rookie cards for comedians, he was the one that I think would have had the highest value after 84. And then it

kind of became, all right, what's next? He was kind of a curmudgeon. We'll get into some of the stuff that happened on this set. I think he was difficult to work with and would fuck with people during the movie, whether it was in the script or not. Sean, is this the legendary Bill Murray fucking with everybody movie or is there another one? Well, it's definitely the legendary Bill Murray fucking with Richard Dreyfus movie. And that's, I mean, you know,

there's some stuff that happened on this movie that seems not great in the aftermath, but the idea of just trying to make Richard Dreyfus mad every day is hilarious as a professional pursuit. And it's genius for this movie, you know? I think that the other thing, too, is it's just like, it's one of the last times that he is self-conscious,

saying, I am the most important person in the movie. He's unbelievable in a lot of movies in the future. I'm a huge fan of Kingpin. Obviously, the stuff he does with Sophia Coppola and Wes Anderson, but this is a Bill Murray vehicle. And so he kind of has to be the center of the conversation. Van, the only other one I think could have been Bob over the last, like, 35, 40 years is Will Ferrell. I actually think Will Ferrell would have also crushed this part.

but that's it it's just those two maybe Phil Hartman maybe but I don't know if Phil Hartman was a big enough star to carry a movie like this but I think Will Ferrell

this easily could have been a 2011 Will Ferrell movie you know what if if we hadn't lost Phil I actually in this movie was being rebooted I actually would cast Phil Hartman as the Richard Dreyfus character yes

that's a good call yeah I think there's There has to be a sort of underlay of comedy there because Richard Dreyfus is incredibly funny in this movie. He is incredibly funny. But there has to be a guy who is struggling to keep it together. The rage has to turn into comedy. Bill Murray just gets to be a goofball. But Richard Dreyfus has to pretend to be normal.

And Will Ferrell definitely would have created. Although I think this is also the movie to where I, looking back, on it started to go, no, Bill Murray is a tremendous character actor. And I don't know if Will Ferrell has those chops. He's good at being a caricature. I'm not saying he's a bad actor. He's obviously a fantastic performer. But I think that one of the reasons why Bill Murray lasts is because we all realized

after a certain point that he had another gear. and not a lot of guys in any pursuit of this acting infinity gauntlet, if you will, have that next gear to take them the next 15 or 20 years, and he had it. Well, it took advantage of a skill that he had dating back to Saturday Night Live, where, and he would do it, he had this sketch with Gilda Radner. This is a million years ago, but it was Todd and Lisa Lupner or whatever, and they were boyfriends. they were super nerds basically.

The nerds. And he would like give her Nugis and he would just kind of agitator. And this would be this recurring thing with him. He did it in stripes when he was trying, you know, his way of trying to like flirt with people would be to annoy them. He has that scene with PJ Souls in the kitchen when he's like breaking out the cooking tools and torturing with it. It was kind of a thing that he did, like the kind of torturing move.

And then eventually they were like, this should just be a whole movie where he tortures people. But I agree with you. This is a very distinct character that I'm not sure he ever played again. Just like the Groundhog Day guy was a distinct character. The Kingpin guy was a distinct character. We don't think of Bill Murray as a character actor. Sean, was he a character actor?

I think he transformed into one. You know, like the Rushmore character, that's a character actor part. That's like a part you'd see John C. Riley playing today. But the Bob character is there's probably three people in the last 30 years, 40 years, who can do annoying but likable. And he's annoying but likable. It's like, it's very easy to be annoying and annoying.

And I was thinking about 91 as an interesting moment for comedies because it's kind of post Eddie Murphy as the center of the universe, but it's pre-Jim Carrey, Adam Sandler, Will Ferrell. And so the biggest comedy stars at this time are like, Robin Williams, Steve Martin, Goldie Hawn, and Bill Murray. and all of them are all kind of doing riffs on that. They're all kind of doing like, I'm a little bit obnoxious,

I'm a little bit in your face, but also I'm very lovable, and I've been in your life for the last 10 or 15 years, you know me, you know Steve Martin, you know Goldie Hawn from TV. And it kind of ends very quickly. Like, by the time we get to 93,

it's Jim Carrey time and it's over. So there's this very small window where Murray really gets to cook. You know, 91 is a really great year for movies, like from a pop culture standpoint. And one of the reasons is there's a lot of stars, right? Like if you go to box office mojo, Terminator 2 is the number one movie from that year,

which we've done on there. Robin Hood with Costner. Oh, Jesus. Home alone. Silence of the Lambs. City Slickers, Billy Crystal. Dances with wolves. Costner again.

Sleeping with the enemy. Julie Roberts. We've done that on this. The Adams family, which I can't really explain. Naked Gun 2.5. That was huge. I know. Huge.

Remember MC Hammer? The Hammer, the Adams family groove, that was a huge movie. Number 10 was Teenage Mutant Ninja's Turtles, too. But then goes- Ooh, baby. Backdraft, hot shots, Beauty and the Beast, Hook, what about Bob, kindergarten cop? That was our top 16, but we also had Cape Fear.

We had Boys in the Hood. We had Awakens. We had New Jack City, Thelman Louise, point break. My Girl, Fisher King. Godfather 3, The Doors, Last Boy Scout, Jungle Fever,

it just keeps going and going. It's kind of unbelievable. I feel like 90% of those movies would not get made anymore. You know? That's it. It's depressing.

I wonder if 91 is the movie year to what 95 is the hip-hop year. And I wonder, and by the way, people are going to argue, what's the greatest year of hip-hop?

Is it 95? Is it 96? I say it's 95. But that's an incredible lineup of movies, more so because of the variety. Yes. Gigantic, big, huge. I mean, you can look at the variety even in Kevin Costner's career by himself. He plays both a guy in a post-Civil War outposts communing with wolves and stuff.

And he also plays a Robin Hood with no English accent. Who can pull that off in one year? Thank you for recognizing the horrible accent, one of the worst accents in movie history. He's had a lot of trouble with accents, and that could really be its own special podcast. Are we doing Prince of Thieves on rewatchables? Prince of Thieves? Wasn't that the subtitle of the Robin Hood movie? Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves?

It would have to be, to me, that's a live watch where we just make fun of it. Bill, let me ask you a question real quick before we move off that. What's your problem with subtitles? Because I've seen this. Like you said Robin Hood, and then you said, you said Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2. You did not say Prince of Thieves and you did not say

Secret of the U's. Fair. I mean, I J. That's a hole in my game. It's a fair thing to bring up. I call him Muhammad Ali, Cash is Clay. Come on, man. Do you remember the subtitle for City Slickers 2, Bill?

Wasn't it like Curley's Gold or something? The legend of Curley's Gold. That's right. Here's my therapist movie Mount Rushmore. I asked you guys to come up with this. movies that had to include a therapist used in some profound way in the actual plot. Here's my top four. Goodwill Hunting.

Analyze this. What about Bob? Ordinary People. I went dark for the fourth choice. What did you have, Van? Okay. So mine is going to have one movie that I love that is a notoriously unlikeable movie that you guys not going to like. Mine is, what about this?

What About Bob? Analyze this. Goodwill hunting and Prime. Wow. Right. I really, I really loved Prime. Nobody else loved that movie except for me. Like, I really enjoyed Prime.

And I didn't see what the big problem with the movie was. I thought of great performances, Merrill Street, Uma Thurman, but nobody else dug it. I loved the movie. Oh, as Honorable mentioned, Antoine. Fisher. But, like, I really love Prime. You know, it's funny, before we get to Sean's list, I was surprised how easily

I put Analyze This in there. I also haven't seen it in 20 years, and I feel like the Sopranos completely cut the, cut the legs out of that movie from a legacy standpoint, because the Sopranos is basically the same premise, right? I remember even when the Sopranos is coming out, I'm like, why are they doing it?

Analyze this into a TV show, and then the Sopranos just goes... They addressed it in the Sopranos. Right. Yeah. And then by season two, it was like, analyzed this was day. And then they made a bad sequel to it.

I think that heard it too. Anyway, what's your list, Sean? So it's very, very similar to everyone else's here. It's what about Bob? I had ordinary people, Bill. Dr. Berger, can't sleep on Dr. Burger. He's very important. Obviously, analyze this as well.

And I feel like you have to put the Sopranos. It's not a movie, but the Sopranos, Dr. Melfi invented the modern archetype of the therapist in all popular culture. You know, she really, she, I think when people think of therapists from the world of popular culture, they think of her immediately. So I'm going with her. You could, you could choose some other ones. But analyze this is interesting. I want to talk about that with you guys, because I feel like it has a lot in common with what about Bob, where you have a ton of people that are incredibly accomplished working on a movie that seems really silly and it makes the movie that much better.

You know, Analyze this is directed by Harold Ramos and written by Kenneth Laundrigan. Wow. That's amazing. That's incredible. And this movie is the same way. What about Bob has an amazing director in Frank Oz. Michael Bauhaus is a cinematographer.

It's got Anne Coates as the editor, the woman who cut Lawrence of Arabia. It's like, it's an amazing collection of uber talented people working on silly movies. And that helps. That really helps these movies. Well, that was one of the things I noticed with this movie on the rewatch, even though I've, I feel like I've been watching that this movie is one of those where, you know, we call this podcast,

so you're watching, as you're flipping channels, and Bill Murray shows up at the lakehouse, and you're like, all right, I'm, I'm just going to ride this for the next half hour or so, and then you end up watching the whole movie.

But every person in this movie kind of crushes it, because we have the recasting couch is one of the categories here. I have no recasting. I think everybody is, is kind of perfect. Even Julie Haggerty, who I've kind of come in, I know Sean likes her more than I do. I do.

I think she's kind of perfect for this part. You just kind of need the wife that's, she kind of likes the husband. You don't really question it. She's there for the long haul. And I don't really know who else I would have put in there. But this movie, right down to my two favorites, the two people who own the diner who hate Dr. Leo Marvin,

even they're perfect. Like every small piece of this, the telephone operator on down the line. It's just like everybody kind of hits it out of the park which is one of the reasons I like this movie. I did I did my recast and couch

all black cast. I can't wait for it. Oh, I can't wait. Well, let's keep it going then. Quickly, let's talk Dreyfus 86 to 91 comeback tour. Down and out Beverly Hills, 10 men, stakeout, let it ride, postcards from the edge. What about

Bob? We talked about him a lot. We talked about him a with the three of us in Mr. Holland's opus a few months ago. And he is a cocaine casualty in the 80s to the point that in the research, he doesn't remember movies that he filmed and stuff like that

was able to get his shit together. And look, he's a notoriously difficult actor. I think when they have the, if there was the notoriously difficult actor spin-off, rewatchables podcast, like the first episode would be about Dustin Hoffman Dreyfus is probably second Or George C. Scott?

Who else would be do episodes on Fantasy? I think some people have struggled with Christian Bale in the past, you know? He's like an intense fellow on set. Yeah, that's a tough one. So Dreyfus,

just legendary dick. I mean, just that was the MO with him and they finally figured out how to make him a dick in a movie who's being tortured and pull his dickness out. And I think it's really effective. It's kind of amazing how they did it.

I don't know. like Van said Phil Hartman would have been a good one. I actually think that's a great idea. I think it makes it more of a comedy. The Dreyfuss thing, you really feel like he's annoyed by Bill Murray because he was. Yeah. It's interesting about his character in this movie is that Bill Murray has all of these things wrong with him. Remember now, Bill Murray is we like Bill Murray in this movie as the audience.

Everybody else that he meets in this movie up to a point can't stand him. Remember, they clap when he gets off the bus. You know, he's just annoying everyone. We got a baby schedule to keep, Bob. Get on the bus. You know what I mean? But the moment, this is brilliantly done by Richard Dreyfus, the moment that they are on screen together,

you have to make a choice as an audience, and the choice is obvious. One of these guys has some mental problems that makes him a lot to deal with. The other is a narcissist. Yeah. And the reality is that we would all rather deal with someone who's imperfect, who's annoying, then deal with a raging narcissist.

The moment that he's looking through the books on his thing, he goes, there's an amazing book that just, and he fumbles around to a row full of books that he wrote and then gives one to Bob and then bills him for it. You know what I mean? You know, okay, there's something wrong. He's not even Clark Griswold where he's not even Clark Griswold, where he's just a working guy

trying to do all of this stuff. Nah, this dude's a dickhead. He's an asshole. So, and nobody likes to be around that guy. And it takes a very specific actor to be able to play a character who actually has a point,

like you should not go and confront your therapist on vacation. But he can't make him too much of a dick because then it's becomes the movie, it gets skewed out of the way. So he does a nice job with it.

He does a fantastic job, yeah. I feel like this is the movie, though where Dreyfus is finally playing the character he was destined to play. Because in the 70s, we talked about this, I think on the, on the Mr. Holland's opus episode, and we talked about it on Jaws, too. He was this like POV character for all of these nerdy filmmakers, right? They were like, this is my guy who kind of looks like me, but is a little bit more dashing. He's intelligent. You know, he, the audience is going to root for him in close encounters and Jaws and all these movies throughout the 80s. And even up until the late 80s, you know, he's in like, Let It Ride,

and he's in Always that Spielberg movie. And he's still playing like kind of a nice guy, kind of the hero. But you could tell watching Richard Dreyfus in jet, like just watching him at any movie. It's like there's a little bit of a second layer of dickhead to him. And this is the first movie where he becomes like a true asshole. And then, you know, it's not, it's only a couple years later when he's, he's the biggest asshole in movies in the 90s in the American president. You know what I mean?

Like he leaned into that as he went further into his career. So it's an interesting thing that, that, that, It took this long for him to officially be cast as the worst guy in the movie. Why did I never think of this before? No one has had a heel turn like Richard Dreyfus. And it starts with what about Bob? What about Bob? We talked about Mr. Holland's opus.

Mr. Holland, an asshole. Asshole. Yes. And look, it actually goes until he just says, fuck it. I'm going to play the biggest asshole I can play. Give me Dick Cheney. You know what I mean? It just continues.

to go. I never thought about that before, man. But it is true. He went from being up, and I would say even in down and out in Beverly Hills, which once again, I just love, I love Richard Dreyfus. I think I talked about this. I love down and out of Beverly Hills.

You start to kind of see it, but he's perfect for this role. It's like, well, down on Beverly Hills, his I'm db is one of the weirdest ones. I think that exists because you know, he has he's got American graffiti

graffiti in 73 it's when he's on the scene but he's also in Dillinger that year which I think was a pretty big movie put Babyface Nelson then he's in Jaws he's in close encounters so he's in two of the biggest movies

of all time back to back within 18 months of each other so the goodbye girl which is when he wins the Oscar great and from that point on from 78 on the big fix

the competition with Amy Irving whose life it is it anyway in 1981, Neil Simon movie that pretty polarizing. I think it was decently well-reviewed. So that's 81.

Doesn't make a movie for three years. And I think he's having a shitload issues. In 1984, he's in a movie called the Buddy System, which I didn't remember.

So I clicked on it. It's with Susan Sarandon. Here's the plot, according to IMDB. A quiet school truant officer uncovers a young boy's attempt to fake a residential address and subsequently gets involved romantically with the boy's mother.

This speaks to your point. These were the roles that Richard Dreyfus was playing. He was completely miscast. He should have been like the evil warden of some whatever. It's trying to torture Slice the Load. But yeah, it's a very strange career. And I think drugs probably weren't helping. So this movie, $39 million budget made $64 million.

Roger Ebert, three stars. said it was Bill Murray's best movie since Ghostbusters in 1984. Siskel didn't really like it, said Dreyfus gave too angry of a performance, and it ruined the movie for him. That was Gene Siskel's take. I could see that. Yeah, I just disagree. I disagree as well, but I could see on the rewatch, this motherfucker was mad.

Right, right. This, this, on a rewatch, I love it. On a rewatch, there was a seething, simmering sort of deal. Like, he fucking hated Bob. Like, you know, so I could see that. I don't agree, but I could see him feeling that way. They sold the movie on his anger, though. I mean, that, the famous, like, he's not gone.

He's never gone. He's never gone. You see? Like, that scene, that was in the trailer, you know? That was what got you fired up about going to see the movie. I don't know. He wasn't too. I agree.

Today's most rewatchable scene. We're going to do the rewatchable scene. It's presented by Blue Moon. Blue Moon carefully crafted for one-of-a-kind appearance and flavor brewed with Valencia Orange Peel for a subtle sweetness and bright citrus aroma. That attention to detail, much like Richard Dreyfus in this movie, makes Blue Moon the perfect bearder to bring some brightness to your life. Just like a well-crafted movie, you know you'll enjoy Blue Moon every time.

It's always best served in a glass that signature orange garnish. Celebrate Responsibly, Blue Moon Brewing Company, Golden Colorado, Ale. Most Rewatchable scene. I really like the opening credits, I think, are really good. But I'm not going to put that in. But I think it's just to establish how Nuts Bob is right away is great. I have the first therapy scene with Murray and Dreyfus when he does the, what if my heart stops bleeding?

And he's just like, he's off the rails. So the real question is, what is the crisis? What is it that you are truly afraid of? What if my heart stops beating? What if I'm looking for a bathroom? I can't find it. And my bladder explodes. At that point, Dr. Marvin seems like he has a shit together,

but it has one of the great quotes. There are two types of people in this world. Those who like Neil Diamond and those who don't. Are you married? I'm divorced Would you like to talk about that? There are two types of people in this world Those who like Neil Diamond and those who don't

My ex-wife loves him I think that's actually true I think that's a good I see your book quote But that one is I think it's important with a movie like this Where they have to meet early And they kind of have to nail it

And I feel like they I feel like they nailed that one I have an important question for you, Bill, about that scene. So when you're working on the book of basketball, how many mock-up covers featured a photo of your face? It's zero. I remember getting that note from the book company and being like, I'm not going to be on the fucking cover.

What are you talking about? It's amazing. It's Richard Dreyfuss's face on the cover of that book. That's so good. Next rewatchable scene when he's, when Bob's waiting for the doctor to call in the diner, the guy he uses the phone I also like when he gets up the bus

but when that's when we get my people the gutments who own the diner and they're like oh Bob there's so much anger of that one the sailing Bob sailing there's some questions about why the daughter

just so eagerly invited him that are a borderline picking nits but I have a theory about that okay I have a theory too they needed the movie to have Bob incorporated with the family. I mean, do you want to do it right now?

Yeah. I mean, Catherine Irb is 26 years old in this movie. Yeah. How old is her character supposed to be? Is she supposed to be 15? 17. Well, she's driving. I tried to figure this out.

She's got to be at least like 16 and a half. She's a little old to be played the 16 and a half year old. Julie Haggertie is only 10 years older than her when they made the movie. Right. Oh, wow. Like in my head, I'm thinking Catherine Irv's character is 25 years old and she's just failed and she's forced to live with her family. because she can't get a job.

And so maybe she was attracted to Bob. Maybe she wanted him to be a part of her gang. Jesus, you've made a whole different movie. Oh, wait a second. Like, Sean just gave us the Brazzers version of what about Bob? Like, what are you doing?

Wait, so you think she might have been post-college? I don't think that was the intent. But when I watch the movie, okay, so Catherine Erb, three years later, three years later plays David Caruso's wife in Kiss of Death. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, this is an adult woman. This is not a teenager.

Sean, is this your way of auditioning for the Kiss of Death podcast? I definitely want in on that. Definitely want it on that. That's a fucking hilarious movie. That movie's unbelievable. Yeah, so if we're saying she was post-college or college, that makes more sense because her friends seem older too. Gets us not a dress.

Would have been nice to hear her age. at some point. I like the sailing. I also love when Shrefus is talking with her after and he breaks out the fucking puppets and it's like, oh, you're a lunatic. You're communicating with your daughter through two puppets. He gives her the other puppet.

Anna. Anna. I know you won't listen to your father, but you always listen to me. So I'm asking you not to see Bob Wyatt. Daddy, I am just... I can't hear you. Where are you, Anna? I'm just having fun.

with my friends. And Bob Wiley. Yes, and Bob Wiley. Bob Wiley is your father's patient. Bob Wiley is a very sensitive person. Your father's sensitive? Bob listens to people. Your father listens to people, except when he's up here and Lake when at the side.

To me, this is when right here is when the movie takes off. When he's sailing, it comes back. Now, the next rewatchable scene, he teaches Siggy how to dive. Sigi jumps in, the dock pushes Murray into the lake. That whole thing is great. Bob at dinner? That's my... Go ahead.

Yeah, that's my joint. That's my joint. Mmm. Mm. Faye, this is so scrumptious. Is this hand-shucked? Mm-hmm. Would you like some more chicken bob?

Mm. My wife loves when he asks if the corn is hand-chucked. Like, there's any other way to make corn? And like, there's any difference. Is this corn hand-hucked? head shucked. Like this Haney. Right.

Yeah. The Heimwick. And then when he saves him, they all gravitate to Bob. Right. But Trefis is just almost choked in death. And he's like, I just never give up hope. That seems amazing. Bob crashed in the GMA interview, the GMA interview, the whole thing, the diner people celebrating.

The Dreyfus kicking him out. You think he's gone? He's never gone. That whole section. and then Leo tries to blow up Bob but Bob's house pulls up. That's what I have. Anything missing?

The chicken scene is my favorite scene. I do love it also when he gets off the bus and his idea of tracking down Leo is just to stand in the middle of town and scream Dr. Leo Marvin and it works. Thank you.

Goodbye, doctor. Bye. Thanks again. Get in the car. Come on. Hurry, hurry, hurry. Dr. Marvin! Oh, I really appreciate this.

Everyone in the car, come on. Think about a guy in the middle of Hollywood and Highland at Times Square just shouting out. Sean Finacy, Bill Simmons, Van Lathen, or at Martha's Vineyard, or even in Baton, and it's just meant to be, it works. And that whole little therapy sees that just the horror on his face

when he turns around and sees that Bob has made it up there. It's so hysterical, man. What do you have for most rewatchable, Sean? I think I have one more. Did you say just the diving scene? You know, the scene where Bob teaches, I really, I like that scene a lot more watching it the second time around. But I feel like every scene between Bob and, and Siggy is really good,

even when they're in bed together later that night too. And the conversation they have in the Tourette's stuff. Yeah, that stuff is really good. But my favorite scene is scaring the shit out of me. I'm like, damn, I hadn't seen that in a long time. And I'm like, it hits different when you're like 21 watching that. and when you're 41 sick, he was scaring the shit out of me.

Jesus, man. Right. Yeah, man, that's Michael Ballhouse. He's shooting that scene like it's a horror scene. You know, like there's two heads in the frame, like one in the back and one in the front. Like, there's some heartful stuff going on there. My favorite scene is definitely Dreyfus just blowing his top

and doing the he's not gone. He's never gone. And then opening the door and you see. Like, that just kills me every time. I have the dinner. I love the dinner. I love how annoying he is at the dinner and everything about it.

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Blue Moon Brewing Company Golden, Colorado Ale. What's aged the best? It fucking kills me when Dreyfus gets the call that Bob allegedly killed them. himself and his wife's like, oh, that's terrible. And there's this pause. He's like, yeah, it is. And he's like, oh, well, let's let it spoil our vacation. It just turns a light up.

It does the clap. It was the service. That patient, the one who called before, he committed suicide. Oh, you how horrible. Oh, well. Let's not let it spoil our vacation. It's unbelievable.

It's so good. You know, I love when they say, say the title in the movie. It's one of my jams. They do the... What about Bob? What about Bob? I just like, thank you.

It's great. I don't know. You think they came up with the title before or after they filmed it? I don't know. I'd probably... Maybe after. I wonder what the working title of the movie was.

I'm going to say after. I bet it was untitled. What's age the best? Dr. Marvin's Wagoneeer. So great to see those 80s wagoneers. I feel like, those should just come back. I knew you were going to bring this up.

I was waiting for you to bring this up. It's a great car. They were all over, though, because I think there was one in the gray outdoors. If I remember, you used to see Harry and the Hendersons. It used to, you know, you stop seeing them. People don't have them anymore. Really important 80s movie car. Like, there could easily be a website just with all the 80s wagoners and different

movies, especially comedies for some reason. Another one stage the best, Julie Haggerty, Sean Go. I know you like her. I mean, comic genius, like the mom of our lives from airplane to Lost in America to this movie, she is like one of the most consistent comedy presences showed up in marriage story a couple of years ago. Still great. She killed in marriage story. She's hilarious.

She's also been like 38 or 39 years old for 40 years. Like she has weirdly looked exactly the same forever, but she's hilarious. I wish she had a little bit more to do in this movie, just a little bit like a couple of more lines because she's really, really funny if you've seen an airplane, obviously, you know. But she's great. She's perfect in this film. I'll tell you something real quick. Number one, in this movie, she's the person

that tolerates Dr. Marvin. Remember, his kids can't tolerate him, and then Bob needs him for something. She's the one that tolerates him and gets them, and you kind of understand the dynamic. We have to come back, and I'm sure you guys have done the rewatchables on Lost in America. No. We haven't. Jesus Christ.

Unbelievable movie. Unbelievable movie. I keep watching a film. I'm hoping that she doesn't go lose all this man's money. Every single, it's such a hard scene for me to watch. I love that movie. I think she's great. She's great. I was glad to see her come back.

Albert Brooks and Gary Marshall talking in the casino is like one of my five favorite scenes of all time. That's the best. He's trying to get the money back. He's trying to get the money back. I have Dreyfus's clothes in one stage the best. They dress him perfectly. Some of his summer vacation outfits are just like, just epic.

He's in good shape. Yeah, he was. skinny guy. He's a 5'4, too. Yeah, he's a tiny skinny guy. Did not expect to be talking about Dreyfus's physique on this episode, but why not? He's showing off those legs. Good thighs.

Yeah. I have the Don't Hassemia on local T-shirt as a Woodsage the best. Tremendous. And then I love family conference. I love with movies they can establish backstores of a family with little subtle things like that. But him doing the family conference, there's that the puppets where it's just like,

oh, this guy who thinks he has it all figured out with his family, he's actually like a maniac. He's no less of a maniac than Bob is. It's post Dr. Ruth, Dr. Spock level of famous psychiatrist, but pre-Dr. Phil. And he's obviously like, the movie is parodying and leaning directly into that. This is what famous psychiatrists do.

They have this schick. They have the puppets. They have the conferences. They have phrases like baby steps, things you have to say to yourself over and over again. And it's weird. Like, I was curious about this with YouTube, Van, like, do you feel like this movie makes psychiatry seems safer for people or less safe, given that the psychiatrist is literally trying to kill the patient? So it's interesting that you'd ask that because I think this movie is, in many ways, a commentary on a different societal time we were in to where a lot of people looked at seeing a psychiatrist or psychiatry.

It's a sham. And it's very difficult to watch this movie through the mental health lens that we're in now and not seeing them say that the most fucked up person in the movie is the shrink, is the psychiatrist. And remember, even back in the day, we all remember people, anytime someone would say, I'm seeing a shrink, I'm seeing a psychiatrist,

shrink was almost a pejorative, right? You always thought that there was something wrong with them. everything that he tries to do to connect with people on a human level, he fails at. He can't connect with his daughter. He can't connect with his son. Bob, who through his fears, is more human than Dr. Marvin, automatically connects with these people. He's automatically fun. He's automatically, he, the brilliance of the diving scene is that Bob was doing that on purpose.

is that after Ziggy dives, Bob goes, yeah. Right. Because he was trying. He knew that in empowering Ziggy and not making him seem like he was dominant over him, that he would figure it out. So Bob's more of a human than a psychiatrist is. I'm sorry, man, that's a statement on psychiatrists.

Like, when you don't just talk to your daughter, when you use puppets, that's saying these people are a little fucked up. And the fact that he's also a narcissist, and it's almost like you'd have to be a narcissist to think you could solve everybody's problems. It's almost a takeaway at that point. So not in a bad way.

I just think we've come a long time. And we actually go to a point after this. I'm not going to drone on too long to where that changes. In Goodwill hunting, that changes. Will cannot get to be who Will is without the help of the psychiatrist. Yeah, but at the same time, Will hunting analyze, Analyze This and the Sopranos, the theme of the therapist was always like,

oh, it's a sign of weakness if I go to this person. For the people in their lives. For the character in the movie. Right. But for all of those characters, though, they were immensely helped by the therapist who was a very grounded, very human person.

And we kind of get that moving forward and in the past it's just way and like that. We didn't get it from Dr. Leo Marvin. Didn't get it from Dr. Leo Marvin. got great thighs. And a great trimmed beard, too. Really nice trimmed beard. I almost put that in What Sage the Best.

I don't know if he was using the Don Johnson Beard Trimmer. Any other WoodSage the Best for you, guys? I do miss a period of mainstream American comedies with movie stars that is like a little high concept and not too high concept. And the trailer explains it all for you. And it's an easy watch.

And it doesn't have to be the most important movie you've ever seen. It's just like, There were 25 of these between 1987 and 1994. And I just, I missed this kind of movie. I wish they made more of them. Yeah. Before we get to what stage is worse, we're going to take a break.

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accept it schedule pickup and we'll come to you with a check in hand your car your timeline your terms visit carvana com to sell your car today carvana pick up fees may apply all right what's age the worst i couldn't believe this this was empty for me except for one sentence so i'm just we might as well have the conversation now what was the point of this movie because there's a different way to look at it where you're just like Bob's a sociopath and basically steals this guy's family and tortures everybody and won't leave everybody alone and then drives this guy so crazy that the guy blows up his own leghouse and then is catatonic for a year and yet Bob is our hero in this movie you kind of there's a way to look at this movie you're like wait a second what's happening here and yet I still love it

I just wanted to raise the raise the question well I think I know at the point I think the point of the movie is you can help more people being smart than being human. Excuse me, you can help more people being human than being smart. I think that Bob was like a walking open wound. And like, the movie does kind of go off the rails at a point that Leo Marvin goes completely fucking crazy. When he becomes a murder?

Yeah. But by the way, that's also a sign of the times too. It was like it, we used to not care about stuff like that. We used to just accept it. Well, vacation was like that too, remember at the end, Clark Griswold? Like he kidnaps people. He infiltrates Disneyland, whatever Disney was called that movie, but yeah. Or even parenthood where they use a school shooting for a comedic device.

Do you remember? Like when he's having the dystopian future of his son and his son is up at the top of the bell tower like the guy in Austin. I was just watching that a couple of days ago. It's like, shit, they would never fucking do this now. So it's just, you know, things were different. But, like, Bob was just a guy who was trying to get to the next day, and he was more effective than a guy who was trying to figure you out. And once again, I think that the movie is fucking taking aim.

I think the movie thinks that psychiatrists are hucksters and snake oil salesman. And it's putting one of those guys through hell. You know, this guy didn't really care about helping people as much as he can. cared about being on Good Morning in America, and that's pretty obvious in the movie. It's funny you say that, though, because I don't think it's necessarily parodying or mocking all therapists. I think it's like a very specific brand of like fame hungry therapist. Yeah. But this is, because this movie, the, the story for the movie comes from Alvin Sargent. Alvin Sargent was the, the writer of ordinary people. Like, this is obviously

a person who has like respect for this, this art form, I guess, for lack of a better word. But the thing is, like, think of the movie a little bit differently. To your point, you're question, Bill, about like, what is the point of this movie? There's a very popular subgenre of movies during the late 80s and early 90s that we love. The from hell movie, the sort of like being stuck with a person that is making your life crazy. Think of this movie as a logical successor to Pacific Heights. It is the same thing. A person comes into your life.

You have a kind of professional, appropriate relationship with that person. There's something transactional between you. And then they won't leave. They won't get out of your life. and they will torture you. And they know every move to make to make you seem like the asshole and they seem like the hero.

It's the same kind of a movie and that's exactly what Bob does the same way that Michael Keaton does that. It's genius and it's part of this lineage of movies that happens all throughout this period. Comedy horror movie. I really like Pacific Heights,

just for the record. Any other what stage is the worst for you guys before we move on? Nope. All right. Casting what ifs. It's a great fork in the road here. Woody Allen was approached to play Dr. Leo Marvin was also considered to direct, which is bizarre, and possibly co-write the script.

He said no. And then they were like, well, what if you're just Dr. Marvin? He ends up saying no. Woody Allen in this movie is like broke my brain. I don't know what this movie is if Woody Allen is the doctor. It's too much neurosis on the screen. Like you can't. How can you do that?

That doesn't work at all. It's fucking horrible. It's a bad idea. He is the guy, though, who introduced, I think, the idea of, you know, my analyst to American movie audiences. I mean, I think that's probably what they were thinking was, well, let's just have the guy who's been going to analysis for years played the therapist. They also approach Patrick Stewart. Different movie. Yeah. I don't know if that works either. And then Robin Williams was the first choice for Bob and they could not pull it off. I could see that.

Yeah. So are we at a time in 91 where Robin Williams says no to a movie and then you can go get Bill Murray. Yeah, he's a bigger star than Bill Murray. 87 and 93, I actually think he's a bigger star. We did this when we did Mrs. Delfire. He's, that seven-year run he has. He's one of the two biggest stars in the world. I know, yeah, he had a run of $100 million movies.

I know, Jesus, that's, I didn't, I never saw it that way until just now. Like, wow. Yeah. Best that guy, aka the Joey Pants Award. You mentioned earlier, I think it's Catherine Irby. I don't think people know who that is, but she's been in stuff and you know her face. She,

I mean, she was the star of a law and order show, though. She was the star of criminal intent for 10 years. Like, that's, so for a certain- Then she doesn't count.

I forgot about that. Yeah. So who is it? Who's the, that guy in this movie? I got two. I guess the telephone operator is the other one I was looking at. They're only in one scene.

Maybe they're not that guys. But, Tony Sopranos sister is in one scene. Oh, wait. I ate a Titoro. Yeah, she's not a that guy. She's not of that guy. And then also my man from the wire.

Who? Tommy Carcettys. You know Tommy Carcettys guy? Oh, yeah. Yeah, my man from the wire. Tommy Carcettys guy. Yeah. Yeah, he wins.

I didn't even know what that guy's name is. He played Quirons on Oz. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, he, I see him right. there and I keep waiting for him to say, Mr. Mayor, we have to go talk to the ministers.

You know what I mean? But yeah, he's in the one scene. That's a great that guy. I know him as Quirn's. I got two more. Tom Aldridge is Mr. Gutman. Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure he's also, um, uh, Mrs.

Sopranos father, right? He is. Right? On the Sopranos. Oh, wow. That's a good one. He fucking is. I was, I kept trying to, by the way, that guy held up really good.

good for the fucking 20 years after that the spreadels is 10 years. He looks exactly the same. The other one is Charlie Korsmo is Siggie who. I feel like he's Charlie Korsmo though. Is he? I think so because Can't Harley wait. He was in a lot of stuff. Yeah.

But it seemed like he was going to be, right? Because he was, what was he? He was in Dick Tracy. He's in Hook. And he was in this out. We did Terminator 2. We found out he was the original choice for the Edward Furlong role. But he did what about Bob instead?

But people know Charlie Corsmo's name? Yeah, I think so. I think if you know the movies, but it's interesting between the three-headed dragon that was coming up around that time, him McCulloch and then Elijah Wood, and he just stopped making movies. He, for a long time,

and he came back and he came Harley Wade, and everybody was like, wait, who is that guy? Who is that guy? And then he, but I feel like Karen Harley Wade, he became, like we all knew who he was. That was like the Duncan, KG and C-Web of that time. Exactly. Corzmo, Elijah and Macaulay.

I have some unbelievable Corzmo info for later. DeVitsynne, give me all you got a word for somebody who dialed it up, maybe did a little overacting in this movie. It's got to be Dreyfus. As much as I love Dreyfus,

he really dials it up a couple of times. The Jed Nelson Award for the person who seems like they're in a completely different movie. I don't have one for this one. I feel like everybody belongs in this movie and seems like they're in it. Although, the sister

is just an unexplored character and she just kind of shows up we don't have a scene with her there's not like the two minute taking a walk with Bob where you can kind of see her fall all of a sudden she's just in love with Bob and getting married to him at the end

I didn't really understand that but it feels like something was deleted she's a great she's kind of a great that gal her name's Fran Brill and she's one of the most well-known puppeteers the last like 40 years and the reason she said it is because she's friends with Frank Oz. She's one of the Sesame Street and Muppets people.

And she's very famous for all that stuff. And that's clearly why she's in the movie. She's a friend of Frank Oz's who, of course, you know, is behind Miss Piggy and the Muppets and Yoda and all those characters. Sean, how did you find that out? Did you? That's why he's here. Are you up on your puppeteer game? There's a big picture. There's an excellent documentary about the Muppets that was made three or four years

ago by Frank Oz that people should check out. Wait, okay, just real quick before we move on from that. So you watch, so it's like, so I'm a, I'm a, at home here at the Ringer. You watch a documentary on The Muppets. Hell yeah. And of course, I'm just saying set the scene. Like, what are you, like, you just like a Saturday night, fuck you guys.

I'm like, I got the Muppets documentary to know. Sean doesn't sleep. He sleeps like three hours a day. It's probably happening at two in the morning on a Wednesday. After he's like looking at DeGrumbs Bass and Baseball Reference.com wondering how he only has 73 wins.

If the purpose of this exercise is to make it seem like I a sad life. I can confirm I do have a sad life. No, not sad life. I'm just saying that's good knowledge. I feel like I'm slacking. Truthfully, I saw that movie at South by Southwest. And Frank Oz

premiered. That actually was a big documentary. It was. Yeah. It was. It was a cool movie. People love the Muppets. But Fran Beryl, she's great. One of the OGs of the Muppets. Dionne Waiters is just a layup. It's like Nicole Yokic winning the MVP right now. The diner owners. We have co-winners.

I just fucking love I love the gutmans so much. I have a good picky knit for them coming up later, but the gutmans just bring the heat. They're just really good. They're really funny. I love them. Would you tell Dr. Marvin when he calls that I was here early?

Dr. Leo Marvin? Do you know him? Yeah. He bought a dream house. Like the lifetime to save for a down payment. He swooped down with his bag full of money and grabbed it out from under us. Son of a beach. She never says that.

recasting couch. I did have one. If we wanted to intentionally go high school age for the daughter and not have a 26-year-old, this is prime Tiffany Ambrithy Zen Time, like prime, vintage. If you're looking for like the high school junior, senior, where if they wanted to have her be a little cuter, a little younger, go that way. But if Sean's theory that, she might have been a college graduate. but maybe Catherine Irby is the right choice. I don't know.

I don't know how I feel. I actually think she would be too distracting in the role. That was exactly what I was going to say, man. I think if you put her in there, then do you have to do like a bathing suit? Gene shorts. Yeah, I think she would be too shrieked. I think the family is supposed to be as nondescript as possible.

Well, I hadn't worked Tiffany and Berthese in an overre casting couch in a while, so I just felt like it was a good chance. As you know, I think she, I just want to do her career over again, times. I think there's a world where she's the biggest star in the world. I just think we screwed it up. Van, let's do all black cast. What about Bob? All right. Richard Dreyf's character is Sterling K. Brown. Wow.

Okay. First of all, strong start. Home run. Home run start. I'm in already. The Richard Dreyfus character is Sterling K. Brown. His wife is played by Sanai Lathan. Okay. Two for two.

So Bob in this situation depends on how you want to go, right? There is, because like there's not a lot of guys that are in that spot right now in terms of black comedic actors. Like that can be super funny. Well, can we just, can we just say my fear would be Kevin Hart here? That's the, that's the, not the see. That's one version of the movie. Right. One version of the movie is Kevin Hart.

Hart is Bob. And I was going to let you chew on that for a second. I died. Please know. Just know. One version of the movie is Kevin Hart is Bob. You don't like that version. Just before I tell you my other guy, why don't you like Kevin Hart is Bob here? That's the most natural choice. I just don't think Kevin Hart can be anybody other than Kevin Hart. And he's just Kevin Hart in every movie. Bob is a character. I don't think Kevin Hart can play a character. Okay, fair enough. My other Bob is J.B. Smooth. That's, yes, I can't believe you said that. That was exactly what I was going to say.

That's perfect. My other Bob is J.B. Smooth. That's exactly who I was thinking. And then we know, because we kind of have a little experience with him as a Bob-like figure in Larry's life. It's a different movie, and I think we give Bob different sort of neurosis. But my Bob is J.B. Smooth. Because J.B. Smooth is going to be the guy that comes in there. and he charms the whole family. Sterling K. Brown is saying, that's my Bob. That's pretty good.

I was trying to figure out a way to work Kenan Thompson in this movie, but I don't know how to do it. I was thinking of him as Dr. Marvin. That might work. I mean, I think he's, I think he is tremendously undervalued as far as his skill set.

So I think it could work. I think there's a, there's a Tracy Morgan possibility here. Tracy Morgan? Tracy Morgan as Bob Tracy Morgan might almost be better Tracy Morgan is Bob's pretty good Yeah Tracy Morgan as Bob is pretty good as well

Do you make that movie guys? That's pretty good Man just get that done you're an Oscar winner That's right All that's all about Bob What about Bob? Make some calls Yeah

All right half ass That was really fun by the way That should just be a category Every time it's all black cats I'm with it I'm telling you I'm telling you For me, I always do that.

I look at a movie. I really like that movie. All black cast. Let's go. Halfass internet research. When they blew up the house, they built a three-fourth-sized model replica of the house, so they didn't actually detonate the real house,

which was apparently an expensive house. So they put it on a different lot and blew it up. On the internet, who knows if this is true. Steven Spielberg loved Murray so much in this movie. that he spent $250,000 of his own money campaigning to get Murray an Oscar nomination. Wow. That's on the internet.

The first in a long history of people trying to get Bill Murray Oscar nominations that he doesn't get. How many not nominations has Murray gotten over the last 25 years? It's crazy. Well, we've talked in previous episodes about how loaded the 1992 Oscars was. So you have, that was your silence of laments. So you have Hopkins in that category.

You've De Niro and Cape Fear, Nolte and Prince of Tides, Robin Williams and Fisher King. And then Warren Bitty as Bugsy was the one that was the bummer. That's just I don't fucking understand. I've watched it 10 times trying to figure out. He had so much legacy at that point. That's what it was all about. It was people, he was just Oscar bait. Right.

He was just such a famous star. When he made a movie, it was such a big deal. They just threw Oscars out of him. he's trying to eat his food and she's kissing them all on this. It's just like a stupid movie. I mean, it was just a, you know, a bunch of people at a very high moment of relevance to. Barry Levinson really at the height of his powers right after Rain Man, James Tobacher with the script. Harvey Cottell.

Harvey Cottell, yeah. It was a big movie. I agree, though, it does not hold up very well. It's not really a good watch. The reality is you weren't getting nominated for comedies for Oscars. But really ever. Murray's like in his 70s now. he has one Oscar nomination and he's never won.

And we're going to look back on him as like one of the 10 or 12 key guys the last 30 years in movies. It's fucking weird. Who beat him for a lost in translation? I forget. It's like 04. That was gut-wrenching. I wanted it for him for bad. That was a tough one.

That's, that was one of the ones that really hurt. Let me look it up. Hold on a second. Sean's looking it up. I'm going to give you, there was a couple other. Oh,

we had New Jersey. Jack City got cut out that year, too, Van from Oscar. Oscar talk. Chris Rock, remember? We talked about that one. Right. This is a tough one. This is, uh, is that my daughter in there. That's what that's

Miss. Oh, that's one that year? Sean Penn and Mr. River. By the way, not one of my favorite performances. No, I didn't, that... So over the top. I don't get that. The Oscar love for that movie was very strange. Yeah. Didn't get that at all. All right, more half-fascar research.

So we talked about the tension between Murray and Dreyfus. There's just a lot of stuff on the internet about this. There's multiple, multiple articles, some quotes. Murray said, everyone knows somebody like that Bob guy. We didn't get along in the movie particularly, meaning him and Dreyfus, but it worked for the movie. I mean, I drove him nuts, and he encouraged me to drive him nuts. Dreyfus said, terribly unpleasant experience.

We didn't get along. But I've got to give it to him. I don't like him, but he makes me laugh even now. But then he told another story about how there was a dinner where Murray became, quote, an Irish drunken bully is what he was. He said, read this script tweak. I think it's really funny. Put his face next to mine, nose to nose.

Now, we know this is an embellishment because Murray was eight inches tall or the dry fist. Screamed at the top of his lungs. Everyone hates you. You were tolerated. Then he took a modern glass blown ashtray, threw it at my face from only a couple a couple feet away. It weighed about three quarters of pound. He missed me.

He tried to hit me. I got up and left. So let me tell you how you know that Richard Dreyfus is an asshole by listening to that. Let me tell you how you know that Richard Dreyfus is an asshole. He took the time

to make the distinction that it was a modern, glass-blown ashtray. Right. Most normal human beings say the guy picked up an ashtray and threw it at me. Yeah.

Modern glass-blown ashtray screams Hollywood L.A. dickhead. And how much it weighed? It weighed about three quarters of a pound. Do we need info in the ashtray, Richard? Whole team Bill Murray. Yeah. Thousand percent. I don't support physically harming people that you're working with.

However, you are tolerated is the funniest way to dunk on someone I've ever heard in my life. That is hilarious. Bill Murray is a genius. Everyone hates you, you are tolerated. The Vacation House was filmed in Virginia on Smith Mountain Lake. And then here's some Charlie Korsmo movie. As we said, he did it over T2. Just stopped acting in 1998.

Earned a degree from physics from MIT. Earned his Juris Doctor degree from Yale Law School in 2006. Are you fucking kidding me? He passed a New York State Bar Exam in 2000. He was an associate in a law firm. He was a visiting professor at Brooklyn Law School. And right now he is the professor of corporate law and corporate finance

at the Case Western Reserve University School of Law in Cleveland. Was also nominated by Obama to be a member of the Board of Trustees of the Barry Goldwater Scholarship and Excellence in Education Foundation. Charlie fucking Corzmo. How about that?

Wow. Vans blown away. Man might need a break. I mean, be honest with you, I did this, I did a podcast on, on true lies with these guys. It's called Kyle's in the Field. I was just a guest on it. And it turned out that the guy was an MIT professor. I can't fucking wrap my head around it.

MIT, Google Hunting has forever changed. Right. If you're at my, just so it's just like I can't even, I can't even deal with it. And I got with the MIT and to Yale or whatever. and fuck you Charlie Corzmo I'm smart too yeah legend in two games love that guy

child child actor like Peeby Kirkland yeah yeah so you talked about the McCauley Calk and Elijah Wood Coorsmo young Leo's in there as well

it's like really the glory years young actors um is young Leo is young Leo in there well because from growing pains he's amazing on growing pains no he's not on there

stop it he's not he's he's he's he's he's he he he is like, it's later. He wasn't with those guys. At that point, he was running around with him and Toby McGuire and they were trying to figure out which Heinz 57

commercial they were going to be in. Like, he wasn't to that point yet. My favorite subgenre of conversation on this show is Van says no. I'm sorry, guys. I really don't remember Leo from Goring Payne. So that's all I'll say. I don't remember it. I know, I know he was on there, but I don't.

It was a thing. It was a thing. Okay. He was just too beautiful. It was like, where did this angel baby child come from? And now he's a part of the Seaver family? How did this happen? One of my hottest takes of all time.

The famous Fresh Prince scene with Will Smith and Ben Vareen and Benvareen leaving, and then Will Smith having the moment with Uncle Phil was actually ripped off from growing pains in Leo. Because Leo was this orphan that moved in with Alan Thick's family. But they had the episode when it was. was basically the same thing. And Leo goes to this place where you're like, holy shit. Like, this guy is completely outacting

freaking Tracy Gold and all the other people who wrote that show. And it's like, why is this person on this show? He's such a great. I'm going to send it to you, Van. He'll be back in on Leah. Shots fire to Tracy Gold. Geez. Let her live. Listen.

Let her live. The proofs of the pudding. Apex Mountain. Bill Murray, no. Dreyfus, no. Charlie Koresma, I'm going to say, I'm going to say yes as an actor. It sounds like he's had better Apex's post-acting, but let's say yes. I think receiving an award from Barack Obama is probably a little higher on his list of achievements. Julie Haggerty, no.

How about death therapy? I feel like that was a strong concept. I kind of liked it. This was probably the apex of death therapy. Good Morning America? Could we make the case? Morning shows were super popular back then. I'll tell you why that works for me.

When Joan London popped up on my screen, I was like, damn. It's like, remember that? Yeah. Like, that was such an indelible part of the 80s. Now it's like just another thing. You know what I mean? But like that was such a huge deal. So maybe so, maybe.

Lake Winni Pasaki? Did not know that that was a real place until I Googled it last night. I'm not familiar with that. Yeah. I'm not a New Englander. Is that a New England thing? New Hampshire. patient shrink movies

probably not I think it's probably it's probably analyzed this that movie was massive it was a huge hit and really important for De Niro too I think Is that a rewatchable?

That's kind of a rewatchable It is I think it's actually become underrated because the sequel was people just didn't like the sequel All right, picking Nits so I have two Bob's OCD craziness

kind of comes and goes depending on the scene. There's some scenes where he can't leave his house, open a doorknob, get an elevator, and then all of a sudden he's with the answering service people, he's not afraid of them, how did he get there? And it's just like, is he, is he an OCD maniac or not? They never kind of thread that one. You're missing something, I think.

What am I missing? He's getting better. Like, his obsession with Dr. Marvin is actually forcing him outside. Every single, Bob is actually taking, Bob is actually taking steps. Like, Dr. Marr, baby steps. Dr. Marvin isn't treating Bob,

but trying to pursue Dr. Marvin is making Bob interact with people. Even when he goes to touch the family car, it's one of the most underrated subplots of the movie. When he goes to touch the family car, he at first goes to use his napkins and then he says how many people use his car and she goes just the family

and then he puts the napkin away and he touches it with his bare hands he trusts them so the more that he goes out there like the better he's in one of the most important scenes in the movie is when he actually uses Jason Bourne like CIA detective skills to go in there and pretend to be somebody else

Ethan Hut's skills to pretend to be somebody else because it's making him reconnect neck with the actual world. He has to travel, he has to do all of these stuff. Bob's treating himself and he treats himself throughout the whole movie. So it's almost like Helen Hunt and as good it gets, making Nicholson less OCD. Yeah, so he's getting out of it. All right, we had an answer for that one. You don't have an answer for this one. How are the Gutman's just always around? In any scene, they're just in the bait. They're like, oh, they're in a fishing boat with no fishing poles. They're across the lake for no reason.

They're just kind of on the president. I thought they ran a diner. What about the diner they're running? Who's running it when they're just kind of floating on a boat for no reason? There's a case to be made that they're the most mentally disturbed people in this movie. They're just obsessed with Dr. Marvin. It is. Any other nitpicks for you guys?

I guess I don't really know what Dr. Marvin's plan was really, like, ever. Like, especially when he's going to blow Bob up. You know, like, he's going to kill that guy. He's definitely going to blow that guy up. And he's going to say that Bob committed suicide by blowing himself up. Has anyone ever done that in that environment, gone out to the woods alone and gotten black powder and blown themselves up? I think he lost his mind. I think that's what we're supposed to assume.

But yeah, it goes a little off the rails of that. My only picking it would be that, I have to say this, the therapists that I know, the psychiatrists I know, are deeply, deeply committed to their patients. they're like deeply committed to their patients. So, you know, if ever you told one of, if ever one of them thought that you had actually harmed yourself, it's like a 911 emergency situation. It's like a big deal. So I'm sure there are some Dr. Marvin's out there,

but I haven't run into any of them. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? Shit, we're going to do it. Sterling K. Brown and Tracy, Morgan. So now Lathen. I think it's I think it's a movie, not a

not a show. Because I think it's, it's like what producer Craig said at the beginning when you try to hurt her feelings. That it is one joke for two hours, basically. Now, there's, the more you watch this movie, the more you see, it's more than that. But I think that would be

hard to sustain over 10 episodes. I mean, in treatment was, the show in treatment was kind of sort of like this. It wasn't just about one doctor and one patient, but, But it was tracking the progress or lack of progress among patients over years. And now that show's coming back this year. Probably an answerable questions.

Was Leo a murderer? Should he have gotten to jail for attempted murder? Yeah. Yes. I think the answer is yes. Right. You try to kill somebody. Yes.

Was Bob's previous doctor foisting Bob on the Dreyfus, one of the all-time best voice that's ever happened? It's got to be, right? for foist? Yeah. I shouldn't put that in there. Foist Apex bout. It was really good. Next one.

Why wasn't there a sequel? Hmm. The stars hated each other? Yeah. Do we need Dreyfus for the sequel, though? You do. He's so good in this. Yeah.

You do. You do. And your sequel is going to be analyze that, Meet the Fokkers. Yeah. What about Leo? Mutation.

Yeah. It's going to be a, you know, it's going to back on to the other guy. That's going to be your sequel. Can I give you an idea for the sequel? Let's get. What if it is filmed in 2021? Okay. Leo's dead.

Whoa. Bob. Jesus. Bob is now a very successful self-help, whatever. He's got a TV show. He's basically, Bob has become Dr. Phil. And we're off. just Bill Murray being Bill Murray, but maybe he has some sort of setback.

He finds out Dr. Leo dies. All of his progress unravels because he lost his security blanket and he's got to, like, get his mojo back. That works. There's one reason I think why Leo would have to be dead for this movie to come back, which is a few years ago, I think that Richard Dreyfus sued Disney to try to get back pay for this film. For royalties.

So I don't. So I don't think he's going to be cast in this. So what would the title be? Would it be called, but seriously, dot, dot, dot. What about Bob? What about me? Yeah, I don't know what it is. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie?

I would take the T-shirt, the game worn Bill Murray. Don't hassle me on a local T-shirt, I think would be an incredible trophy. What about you guys? I want the puppets. Oh, the puppets are good ones. Mm-hmm. I have two. Yeah.

You mentioned the Waggonier already. Obviously, that's a great car. But honestly, like, it is my life's aspiration to have a home like that house. The Lake Winnipezaki house? To have a lake house like that, that is, if I ever get to a place where I can have a house like that, I'm good. I'm all set. I'm walking away from the game permanently. Like, that is a really, really beautiful setup in a small town.

I guess they shot in the East Coast. And you said, oh, I guess they filmed it in, uh, in, uh, in Virginia. Yeah. Virginia, yeah. So, and by the way, all of these movies that,

like, there's a lot of movies like this and even like the great outdoors and all that. Like, when I was a kid watching this, I used to think to myself, yo,

one day I'm going to be able to have a house in a small town where people have barbecues and where they're bare legends and where they're all, and none of that shit has worked out like that. So maybe it still will.

But to your point, that would be so, amazing to just go up to a place and just chill. Dan, do you want to get a time share with me? Luke Winni Pasaki timeshare? I'm in, bro. We'd be a part of the local culture.

Here's where this game ends when you see the house from the good house, from the good son. Oh, that house that's like, whatever, whatever's going on in that, where there's like a cliff and they, like,

all that. And I think they must have made that house up. stand on the good son, Van. I enjoy it. At the time that it came out, it was very difficult to see McCauley in that light. I was like, what the hell? But it was dope.

We don't believe that that's my son's favorite McCauley Calkin movie over Home Alone? Wow. Very popular movie in my house. I continue to be very worried about Ben. I'm very worried. No, he just loves horror movies. There's only two evil kid horror movies. What are they?

That and Damien Oman. And then they made an orphan which she's not a kid And then there was one with Sam Rockwell Where it's a homicidal Little kid I forget what that one's called So I guess there's four They made a couple of years ago

They made a movie called Where he was like Superman What was the name of that joint? He made a movie called Brightburn Where Oh Britburn's great I love that movie Yeah he's an alien

He's like Superman And that's a good one I thought that movie is excellent. I've recommended that one on there. Who won the movie, Bill Murray, unless you guys disagree. Gotta be. Gotta be, Murray.

Yep, it's Steph Curry, 2017 MVP performance. Unanimous. 2021 MVP performance, man. If Steph has 50 points in the game next time. Sean Fantasy, a pleasure, as always. Always fun to talk Bill Murray with you. Oscar winner Van Lathen. Oh, wait, Craig has one more picking net.

I thought you guys were going to mention this. I'm just wondering, is July 31st all the way to Labor Day a little bit too long of a vacation? Is that a normal vacation time for people to make? That's how I know you've been working for Bill Simmons right there. That's amazing. I mean, as Sean knows, I hate vacation. He took a 30, as a psychiatrist, he took a 35 day vacation from his patients. Yeah, it's very true.

A month off. long. Van, how did you not notice that picking knit? I should have. I should have. If your guy went away for 35 days, would you take it personally? I take it personally when I call and I don't get a call back within five minutes. Like, yo, get Dr. Bowman on the phone now.

Okay. Maybe the all-black cast sequel should be, what about Van? Shit, we can do it at this point. Maybe it's just you. Maybe you're starting it. All right, for Oscar Winter Van Lathen, Sean Fennessee and producer Craig, Bill, that was it for a word about Bob.

We'll see you next week. Lethal Weapon 2 coming next week, so stay tuned for that.