The Rewatchables - ‘Whiplash’ With Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessey

Episode Date: February 21, 2023

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessey determine whether they're rushers or draggers after rewatching Damien Chazelle’s 2014 classic ‘Whiplash,’ starring Miles Teller and J.K. Simmons. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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tablewood? I think it's laminated. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. So your car today on... Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. Rewatchable is brought to by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find the big picture with Sean Fentasy. Yeah. You can find the Bill Simmons podcast and you can find the rewatchables. We're about to do Whiplash. One of Sean's favorite movies. I I cannot wait to talk about this. It's all next.

All right, Whiplash, 5, 6. Man. I push people beyond what's expected of. Why would you let him get away with what he did to you? Because I want to be great. I can cut you any time I want. You would have cut me by now. Try me!

There are no two words in the English language more harmful than good job. Whiplash rated R. Select Cities coming soon to a theater near you. All right, Fantasy. You picked the first topic. I'll give you four choices. Okay.

One of the best first director movies ever. Is this a sports movie? What do we learn about J.K. Simmons just stumbling into this incredible iconic part? Or the cruel daddy genre. Yeah, I think we got to go to the latter. Yeah, yeah. I think the, it's not, it's officially not his first movie because Damien Chazelle made a small movie called Guy and Madeline on a park bench.

So he's disqualified. So even though it felt like a big debut and it was at Sundance and it was like, wow, we have a great new voice. Technically, he had a small indie that was like 80 minutes long that he made before this movie. Cruel Daddy. Cruel Daddy and sports movie. I think there's some crossover there. Because it's a coach movie. You know, it's a mentor versus mentee movie.

It's a how do you become great at something movie? and I don't know it's an interesting time to look at a movie like this because our attitudes are evolving about the way to raise children about how to coach our athletes about how to take power in the world so this movie has aged interesting

yeah Wesley wrote when he did his review for Grantland he wrote it was a variation of the cruel daddy acting previously done by men like Adolf Caesar Lewis Gassadjr Jr. Arley Ermi Simmons turns up the volume and gives the

violence, swaggering elegance, some sex. It's a lure that works. I would have thrown in Duval and the Great Santini, which I think is probably the best cruel daddy thing. But De Niro in this boy's life, it seems like all the great actors want to do this part once. I don't remember Pacino doing this, though. Maybe scent of a woman, I guess, is a version of Cruel Daddy.

He did play famously a coach in any given Sunday. I mean, you know, he wasn't cruel in that movie, but he picks Willie Beeman over Cap, right? That's a heartbreaking moment. Yeah, true. There's an aspect of it there, too. Yeah, they all want to be the leader or like the decider once, but then when you add, This Boy's Life is a really good one that slipped through the cracks.

That was the one that put Leo on the map. It's not quite a rewatchable that's got some tough stretches in it, but for the most part, two really great actors going toe to toe. A lot of those movies you mentioned aren't that rewatchable because they're so brutal. And this movie is really brutal too, but for whatever reason, it's a very charismatic version of brutality, you know? Yeah, I wish it had been his first movie. guess that doesn't count. It's almost like the rookie season, but you played four games in your first season, so now you're not eligible for rookie the year. Exactly. Really a rookie? Just enough played appearances to not qualify. Yeah. Yeah. So they have, like he, they filmed this in 20 days.

And just kind of flew through it. And it's so well crafted and it's so well edited that it, you know, we'll get to the Oscar stuff in a second. But it's, you would think this was a movie that he spent like three years on. And it was like staggering to go. see in the moment. We're like, Jesus Christ, and you did this with Schillinger from Oz? And this is like an Oscar movie? Like, what is... And the kid from Project X? What is happening? It's a great announcement movie, right, for both Teller and for Shazelle. And Simmons, I mean, for guys like you and I who watched Oz from episode one all the way through the end, you know, we felt like our stock paid off, right? The dividends hit in a big way in this one,

and he always had it in him. I think... I didn't... You didn't think he would go to this place? Yeah, this is like De Niro and Perchino kind of stuff. I didn't think, which was one of the questions I wanted to get into is like how many actors just never got the right role? Because we always think of all the greats that we always talk about on the rewatchables. And they always have a couple of these. And then sometimes there's the one-timers, right? It's basically if we were going to use a basketball or football analogy, it's like Kurt Warner just being the MVP one year.

It's like, well, how did that happen? And this guy's in his late 20s. He's never done anything before. But you put him in this offense that emphasized all his skills and all of a sudden now he's a real guy. But if you never found that offense, we have no idea who Kurt Warner is. And that's J.K. Simmons had a better career than that.

But this part became, first of all, the first sentence of his legacy because he wins the Oscar. He won every award. He swept. He was 47 awards. Every single award. There were 47 awards. But he was a guy we all thought was great.

But he just seemed like he was destined. to be like the John Hurd kind of J.T. Walsh, like that level of guy, and then he finds this. Can you remember other instances of this happening? Oh, a guy elevating like at this late, late stage of his career like that? It's just a perfect role, perfect time. It just doesn't happen. That's a really good trivia question. I mean, it's very uncommon.

The thing is with him is that at this time, he was working a lot. He was in like 10 movies a year. In 2009, he was in like 11 movies. He worked all the time because he was incredibly professional. incredibly charismatic. Everybody loved him on set. Very thoughtful guy. Yeah.

Good with young directors. Like, he had all of that stuff going for him. Clearly had a good agent because he was constantly getting, you know, working. And so I think there were a couple things that happened, you know, like Spider-Man kind of helped put him in the mix because he played Jay Jonah Jameson in the Spider-Man movie. So he got like more famous. A younger audience was more familiar with him. Jason Reitman really.

And he was in Juneau. Yeah. And when he was in Juneau, I think that that really put him on the radar in a bigger way if you weren't a fan of Oz. but this is like the part you've been waiting for, right? If you're a 50-year-old character actor and you've been grinding and you've made 60 movies and been on 50 TV shows and all of a sudden this 28-year-old kid comes along

and he's like, I want you to be not just in my, you know, I want you to be in my short movie because that's where the movie starts. It starts out as a short that is funded by the producers that they make as a kind of proof of concept to get more financing. A little boge-nance-esque.

Yes, for sure. And that's an old-school thing. That's something that had been done in the 90s and early 2000s with movies. We don't see that as much anymore. But yeah, I mean, for Simmons, he's a force of nature. You can't take your eyes off him in the movie. The funniest thing about his career, and I had him on my podcast once. And we talked about some of the stuff we're talking about now, like directors love him.

Everybody loves him. He was one of those guys. So it was always like, oh, we'll get J.K. Simmons. He's great. He'll fit in. He'll do whatever. But the Schillinger part really overshadowed every time you saw him in a movie from that point on. I remember writing about for love of the game,

which I can't remember if we did for rewatchables or not. Maybe we did that for rewatchables 99. I don't think so. You did talk to him about it on your show. He's the Tigers manager in that, but it's during Oz. And you're just waiting for him to try to attack John C. Riley or try to have sex with the bullpen catcher or something.

He was such a maniac on that show. He was a sadistic Nazi rapist. Yes. Basically was his character on that show. and he dominated every scene he was in. He was a complete maniac. And it was tough to unwind that when he would just see him as somebody's dad in Juno.

It was really, it was deeper than that too because he almost had this kind of like psychosexual love affair with Lee Turgisans character. You know, it really got complicated as that show went on. And he really was at the center of it for a long time. And he was freaking demonic.

So it's kind of logical that the part that really made him, I don't know about an A-lister, but like an A-list character actor. Yeah. It was a bad guy. Was a really evil person who wrought havoc. You know, not like a warm father. He was destined to be one of the great villains of all time.

And that's kind of who this guy is in Whiplash. He looked the same for 20 years. Oz was such an important show because it was so early in the peak TV thing. You know, it was on TV two, three years before The Sopranos. Everybody watched it that I knew. And we were all like, I can't believe we all watched the show. It was my favorite show. An insane, insane show that eventually it just became too insane.

Like, they couldn't find ways to top it. But there was a two-season stretch there. And he was so great on that. But I honestly never thought, you know, like you think of the other people on that show. The guy who played O'Reilly, like he's, what is he, progressive insurance, one of those actors. Dean Winters, yeah. Yeah. The guy who was his brother in that, he was the Goodwill Hunting.

Cambridge, how about that, Apple guys, never really totally made it. That's his brother in real life, I think. Yeah, yeah. Lee Turgis-in was like he was in Wayne's World even before Oz, but he became like one of those guys. Everybody from that show became those guys. Harold Peronel probably did the best. Well, Edie Falco did well. Oh, yeah, Edie Falco was one of the guards.

And she went, I mean, you know, like Rick Fox was on that show. That was like the, you know, there's the, Luke Perry did a stop by. Yeah. It was an amazing cast of actors, some of whom went on to become more famous, some of whom basically never were heard from again. Remember, Edie Falco was Carmela Soprano and on Oz's at the same time? For like one season. Anyway, watching J.K. Simmons emerge from Schillinger, because now it's like, you know, 13, 14 years later and does this part. There was buzz immediately.

Everybody was going nuts about it. And then when you saw it, it actually lived up to the hype. The sports movie piece, this is my son, Ben Simmons, who plays jazz. and he plays the bass and he plays the upright bass. And it's something he's really gotten in the last couple years. And he said, just recently had a performance with all these people and the amount of time and energy and just everything that goes into being part of an ensemble, not just your part but playing off the other people.

Like it's really complicated. So he saw Whiplash after he got into the jazz thing. And he was like, this is my movie. I love this movie. I get it. Like I understand. Like, what's interesting about the. choice they make with this is centering so much of it around the drums, which I guess is a movie

device and a, and I think it's, I think it's because Chiselle played the drums. I think that's really the biggest reason why, because you, in most cases, and even in the history of jazz, there are, of course, legendary drummers, but they're not usually like the forward facing, you know, the trumpet player or the trombone player or the saxophonist or, you know, somebody who is sort of like leading the band in a very specific way. But it's an amazing tool. for making a movie because, you know, the drummer keeps time. The drummer is rhythm. Fletches about time, rhythm, and beats.

Yes, stay on pace. And the movie is all about time. It's like, it's like, it's like being on a train track and you're kind of bumping and bumping and bumping it. And then you have a crash, you know, like, so it's a very, it's a smart cinematic choice, even though we can talk about, like, whether or not, like, a lot of musicians don't love this movie because they feel like it's a little inaccurate or it's overstated. It's, like how I feel about basketball movies. Yeah, yeah. So, to me, it's, it is certainly a movie about music and the world of music. understandable why Ben getting involved in jazz band is relating to it because of the way that you're

kind of pushed to improve and improve and practice and improve. But to me, it's a movie about work and it's a movie about trying to get good at something. Yeah. And that applies to almost anybody's life. And greatness too. Yes. How far will you go to be great? Ben thought it was a sports movie and that was one of the reasons he liked it because it has the same beats of a sports movie, right? even like the last performance was like the big game you know and training montage yeah it's got all that stuff so he

I think it was just fun for him to watch and plus so he just like gets the movie but I do think there's certain movies that aren't sports movies that are sports movies absolutely and we just had another one Craig what was the one we had like alive and Chris Ryan's take was like

this is kind of secretly a sports movie it's all about getting off the mountain and getting off the mountain's a big game but it is funny when that happens in movies that aren't sports movies, but they kind of have the same feel of a sports movie. Well, one of the reasons why the movie works so well for me is that I think that there are people see life in different ways. For a long time in my life, I saw life as a competition, you know, and this is like, it's very easy to port that idea over to this movie. You know, it's like, are you willing to do anything it takes to become successful? And to not necessarily

achieve someone else's idea of success, but your own idea of success. Like the Miles Teller's character in this movie, from the very first times we see him, he's looking at pictures of Buddy Rich. Is Buddy Rich the best jazz drummer of all time? I don't really think so. In fact, I don't really like him as a jazz drummer, but through Miles Teller's character's eyes, that is the pinnacle. Yeah. So he's just trying to be like him, and he'll do anything he can to be as good as Buddy Rich. And that's like how people, you know, if you go out and, I don't know, you want to be a motocross driver. Like, what do you do to become the best motocross driver? Like, you think you can and if it means breaking a few bones, you'll break a few bones.

Like, think about the way that people push themselves. So the movie always really, like, resonated with me in that respect. And athletes are the same way. Like, they'll just, they'll do anything they can, the ones who really, really want to be great. And they'll, they'll really hurt themselves to achieve greatness. J.K. Simmons, I was thinking about actors that never found the right, great part. And then other actors that did. And the two examples that jumped to mind were Cranston and Gainolfini.

And Cranston was successful, right? He was the dad of Malcolm in the middle, and he was a good actor. There's also a world where Breaking Bad just doesn't happen or someone else gets the part, and he's just a different version of the career. Gandoffini was almost like the higher level version of J.K. Simmons. When he was in movies, you really felt it. You always, like, felt him, whether it was most famously true romance, but 8mm. Even the Mexican, which isn't even a good movie,

but every scene he has in the Mexican, it's like, man, I can't take my... eyes off this dude and then they finally were able to put all of it together in the sopranos and i don't think j k simmons is kind of as important of an actor as good of an actor as those guys but he was a really good actor and he found the part and just made me think like how many guys just never found that one part or or came one away or like the runner up for the sopranos i forget that i forget his name. He ended up being a different... Yeah, Rousboli. I think Jackie

Michael Rizbole. Yeah. Like, does he just go the rest of his life? Like, that was my part. Or the kid in Whiplash, like in the research. Johnny Simmons, yeah. Johnny Simmons is in the short film in the Miles Tower thing, and it's Hammer Teller for the Whiplash part. Stepping on the only casting

whatever from this movie and Teller gets it because he's a bigger name. Johnny Simmons never happens for him. It's a really interesting thing. I was thinking about this as I was watching the movie last night. I was thinking about Sterling K. Brown.

I was like, Sterling K. Brown is a well-known person. He's won awards. He was on This Is Us, right? That was a huge show. He was fucking awesome on This Is Us. But has Sterling K. Brown

had his whiplash? No, he's 46 years old. I've seen him in a few movies, and I was like, that guy is an amazing actor. I watched him in Black Panther, and I was like, that guy is unbelievable actor.

He deserves a part like this. You know, there are dozens of actors like, that. There are dozens of people who are working right now, who you've seen, who you know, who you have kind of an emotional relationship to when they show up in a movie, and you're like, they're either going to be like this or they're going to be like this. But if you don't get the part, you don't get the part. This is the rare, rare, rare case where J.K. Simmons, it, however old he was, you know, and in the second half of his life got the part. That's a great one. Sterling K. Brown is the perfect example. You could say he got

the right part because this is a big show, but come on. It won't be remembered the same way. Fletcher from Whiplash will be remembered, in my opinion. Which is not to say that This Is Us wasn't a great show that everybody loved. It's just the Hall of Fame, the way that being consecrated by an Academy Award can change things for your career and for the way people remember you. I mean, the TV version of this, Kyle Chandler's like this to some degree. Like Coach Taylor was such a great part. Same for Connie Britton. Like Connie Britton's on, I'm not like totally psych to reveal this to you, but I've watched the first three episodes of Dear Edward.

Sure. This is a new Apple TV Plus series. It's a, we're going to make you cry show. So my wife was like, we're watching this. It's Jason Catam's. It's Jason Catam's.

It has all the beats and Connie Brittons in it. And, you know, every time I see Connie Britton, I'm just like, she's never topping being Coach Taylor's wife. That's the greatest part. Every time I see her,

I'm always going to think of that part. But yeah, so Simmons finds it. There's probably a bunch of other people out there where it just never happened. When we did one of the Tarantino pods we did, for rewatchables.

We were talking about, what was the name? Paul Calderon. Oh, yeah, on King of New York. Tarantino loved him. Yep. And it just never totally happened.

We had guys in the 90s that we loved that had smaller moments, like Seismore and Madsen, but never like the part. It's, I mean, it's really rare to be a mostly unknown

but appreciated actor. Yeah. And win every award. And, you know, this wasn't like a blockbuster. This is one of the lowest grossing movies ever to be nominated for Best Picture. Yeah.

But it was a movie that opened at a film festival in January, won every award at Sundance, and then for 12 months, everybody was like, you see whiplash? That was really good. You see whiplash? You see whiplash? You know, like, it had really strong word of mouth. People really became interested in it. And the other thing is that I certainly was sold on this idea, but everyone was like,

Shazel. Like, we got one. It's been like five years since we had a really great young, American male movie director voice. You know, this is somebody who has, like, total command of the craft and as a kid. I mean, he was really young when this movie was made. And he made the movie in a small period of time.

And he was kind of handpicked by this small cadre of producers, you know, like he tells the story. It's like Cooper Samuelson, from Blumhouse, he meets with him. And he meets with Jason Blum. Jason Reitman also then meets with him. And then Jason Reitman's producing partner. And then all of a sudden, these four people, they come together.

They make the short film. Then the short film transforms into financing the full-length feature, but they only have a little bit of money and they only have a few days. And it becomes this kind of legendary snowballing story cut to, you know, almost 10 years later. He's like arguably the most virtuosic under 40 person in American movies right now. I mean, whether you like his movies or not, his resume is kind of amazing. He's the first person you'd mention from whatever that under 40 generation is, I think.

It's him and Coogler are the two people to me that are like, they're the two wow guys from that generation. Yeah, so Coogler, Fruitvale was what, like a year before this? That's 2013. Who else was in that generation? Greta Gerwig, you know, a handful of other people, but... Olivia Wilde got kicked out after the last movie. Olivia, we're taking your membership back, sorry. There's just not a ton of American filmmakers who have been able to make personal stories

that are largely not franchise stories. And obviously, Ku Klux got way hard into franchise stuff. And now Greta Gerwig is making a Barbie movie. And one thing I really like about Chazel is he makes his movies. He makes original movies that he writes that he wants to make. and this is the birth of it and it's from such a personal place like it feels borderline autobiographical

and that's very rare for a young filmmaker to be able to do that and do a good job with it. Like most of the time when you're 28 and you try to write your autobiography, it sucks. You haven't done anything your insights are weak. You don't know anything about who you're going to be or what life really means

for a young guy like this to see what his experience was playing in a really competitive studio band at 18 years old and be able to turn it into this crazy psychological thriller and write this amazing part of Fletcher and then write this amazing part of the teller character, you know, who is a pretty developed 19-year-old for a film. You know, it's like a little baby taxi driver. It's a really impressive movie. Well, and then on top of it, he's making it because he really wants to make La La Land.

Right, right. He's like, I'm going to use my other great idea because this is the one that I really care about and the one I want to make. The thing I like about him is that he has an amazing duality of taste. he likes really bright, beautiful, emotional, love-driven Hollywood stories. Yeah. And he's also like a bitter motherfucker, you know? Like if you've seen Babylon, if you've seen First Man, these are like nasty, sad, depressive,

but like kind of amazing, glorious eye-popping movies. If you took Whiplash and La La Land and smashed him together, you'd get the next two movies he was going to make. Like he has the kind of two tones that are really exciting to me. somebody who loves to put on a show like Spielberg, but somebody who's also like really gets under the dirt and the fingernails like Scorsesey. So I'm such a huge fan of his movies. Best picture that year.

This was a great movie year. And we were at Grantlin at the time, and we were really loaded on the movie side that year. Weird, like, collection of winners, though, at the Oscar. It's just like so eclectic, because this was the year of Birdman. This was the year of American sniper. Boyhood, which was,

one of the most fascinating movie nerd movies because we'd been hearing about it forever. I feel like we're split on that one, right? You're not a huge boyhood fan? I love that it exists. Okay. I really do. I think it's,

I'm so glad it exists. I thought it was too long. I didn't totally love watching it, but I thought it was fascinating. But I wouldn't like, be like I'm cranking out boyhood again today. Yeah, I guess I don't rewatch it that much. And I similarly am amazed by the accomplishment of it.

But I think it's a really, really good movie, really thoughtful movie. It's interesting because, like, it definitely felt like for 10 years this should have been Ethan Hawks Oscar, and Simmons just kind of comes out of nowhere in his small indie and scoops it away from him. It's kind of a fascinating thing.

Also, Grand Budapest Hotel, imitation game, Selma, Theory of Everything, and Whiplash. Those were all the Oscar nominees that year. And then Inoratu won for Best Director. Link later for Boyhood, West Anderson, Grand Budapest, then the other two, whatever. I mean, but Morton Tildum being nominated for imitation game

is fucking terrible. It's so bad. Fox Catcher just getting, Fox Catcher, I don't know, it was kind of like the party crasher that year

and I just didn't think that was a good movie. The best actor had Correll and Cooper and Cumberbatch and Keaton All Luz. That was another one wherever I thought

it was Keaton's Oscar for six months, just didn't happen. You know, Matt Bellany on the town just talked about this a couple of months ago about what Red Main

did in his campaigning where he was like he went to every damn party. He kissed every baby along the campaign, which is something that if you're watching the Oscars when it's happening that night, you're like, theory of everything, that was okay. He played Stephen Hawking.

I get why he won. But it's, you know, once again, it's just all about how you work it, you know? It's one of those Oscars that just didn't age well. That's the 2021 Trader Joe's Cabernet that you have to drink right away. You're not putting that one in the cellar. I mean, nobody is watching the theory of everything in 2023.

Nobody. It also had one of the worst best actress years just in terms of like it's Julian Moore wins for Still Alice and then just go through like Rees Weatherspoon got nominated for Wild. I was not a big wild fan. I thought I love Rosman Pike and Gone Girl.

So that was the one I think in retrospect, maybe that one wins. Anyway, supporting actor, J.K. wins. We got Ed Norton and Birdman. Sorry, Edward. Ethan Hawking, Boyhood. Duval and the judge,

the judge is kind of a great movie. It's a good cable rewatchable. Sure. It's got a lot of holes. It's about two hours and 30 minutes. That's not ideal. It's way too long, but it's got Downey and Duval, and they're cooking in some of the scenes. And then basically the showdown was Ethan Hawk versus JK.

J.K. Wins it. And he should have, because he won every single award, and there wasn't, but tough beat for Ethan Hawk. Yeah. I mean, he literally had been playing that part for 10 years on and off. So it's not idea. And Patricia R. Kat won in supporting actress as the mom in boyhood. And so painful loss for Hawk. It did make me think.

We always talk, and you talk about this even more on big picture about. just to make the Oscars more fun, what categories we could add, having like a best comedy Oscar and stuff like that. It just seems like biggest swing would be a fun Oscar category because like,

I didn't even like Babylon, but I'd be like, that's got to win biggest swing. I mean, he's got, like, you watch your first 20 minutes, is like, oh, he's really going for it. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know,

biggest swing would have been a fun way to... Well, one of the reasons why I like that movie is because of the swing of it is like just trying to push it. You're never going to make in movies interesting long term if you just keep making the same predictable thing over and over again. There's a place for a comfortable, comforting kind of a rom-com or a thriller or horror movie.

We like all those kinds of movies. But people who are like, I want to do something crazy that has never been seen before. Or I want to try to match the energy of boogie nights or the Wolf of Wall Street. Movies that are just like, they feel like they're just so coked out of their mind that they can go in any direction at any time. I love movies like that. And I just didn't know what it was about. You got to be about something ultimately. It's a whole other podcast.

No, I know. You just have to be about something. Even Boogie Nights was about things. It was about fame. It was about the death of the old great school of porn. It was trying to do things that I actually could understand. Babon is like, we're trying to do things that Sean Fentasy will understand. I don't think that's true.

I think what it's about as briefly as I can say this is. is that Hollywood was always built on a pile of shit. And that it's always been driven by maniac, drug addict, vanglorious people who are incredibly passionate about the work that they do. But that this is a completely corrosive, cursed town. So it's always been this bad. Yeah. That's at least one of the big ideas in the movie.

Anyway, I do think that... I'm glad he made it. It's kind of his magnolia in a lot of ways. It is. Very much so. went for it, took some swings, and I bet his next movie

is going to be awesome. But you can even see in whiplash, though, like the early makings of like, the world is really mean. And you better prepare yourself if you want to be successful

for how hard it's going to be and how much you're going to be told you're a fucking idiot, you know, because that's what the Fletcher character is doing and there's shades of that in all of his movies. Teller.

Even La La La Land, by the way, which does not have a happy ending. Actually, let's take a break and we'll talk about Teller quick. This episode is brought to by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in.

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creamy goodness and delicious flavor in every sip, try two good-encompanied creamers. They're made with farm-fresh cream and real milk. Each serving has just three grams of sugar, 40% less than the leading coffee creamers. Two good creamers are available in sweet cream, roasted vanilla, and lavender. So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the Creamer Isle. Here's Teller from 2011 to 14. He plays the sidekick and footloose. He's a phenomenal cameo on Project X,

a movie that was immortalized on the rewatchables for some reason. Spectacular now, excellent movie. Wonderful movie. Indie Darling. Really good rom-com and the kind of movie that I feel like Netflix and Amazon has just been trying to make over and over again

for the last three years, and it's been bad every time. A movie that's very big if you married your high school sweetheart. Right. It's a very, very well-drawn version of a teen romance. Then he makes that awkward moment, which was not a good movie. And on paper, it's a rom-com with him and Michael B. Jordan and Zach Efron all with some real kind of steam behind them and the movie sucked. Can't explain it.

Can't explain it. Not a great script. Weird miss. I mean, it's a little bit like the Reese Witherspoon, Ashton, Ashton, Cutch. rom-com that just happened, which is one of the worst rom-coms the last five years. I haven't seen it yet. MBJ and Miles Taylor in a movie now, that's like one of the biggest movies of the decade. Right.

And they had one. They could just re-release that and pretend it's a 2020-movie and try to fool. I think we'd be able to tell. Yeah. Then he makes whiplash and diverge in the same year, and he becomes a big star. He feels young in this movie. He's now had this whole renaissance because he was in one of the biggest movies of all time. playing a really great character.

And it feels like, like we, we have the Sleep Us in Seattle podcast, and I was positing, that's who I would want to see him. That would be the Tom Hanks with the recently widowed, because he's kidding that Tom Hanks stage now. He's,

he's 35. I know, he's in that, that's where Hanks was, right? He's in that kind of 91, 93, Hank's kind of stage where he, now you can go backwards or go forwards or the parts. And I have high hopes for him

because I think he's got it. He's got the charisma, I think he's a really good actor, and you could see it in this movie. He's fucking great in this movie. Did he... Did not get nominated? That's tough.

Bradley Cooper getting nominated over him is tough. Well, American Sniper was a huge hit. I get it. Huge hit. I wouldn't say I walked away from that going What a fucking clinic by Bradley Cooper. It's fine. It's the kind of movie that does get nominated,

like performance as PTSD guy in the service. But I think... So Teller's first movie is this movie called Rabbit Hole, this very small movie. Yeah. About a kid who makes a relationship with a woman who I think he killed her son in a car crash. And the first time you saw him, you were like,

this kid's got scars all over his face. He looks like really young and really old at the same time. He's a really like emotionally complicated actor for like a 16 year old. And he's going toe to toe with Nicole Kidman in his first movie ever. And you're like, wow, this is like really somebody to watch. A couple years go by, he does all those teen movies that you're talking about. He does whiplash. And then he gets kind of shot into the Hollywood system, right?

So he does Divergent. He does Fantastic Four. he does a bunch of movies and none of them work. And like five years ago by. When he did with me, when he came and did the podcast with me, he did, uh, it was one of those autobiographical movies. I can't you remember.

Was he, was he in for bleed for this? The boxing movie? That's what it was. Yeah. Which I think is actually not a bad movie and he's pretty good. Um, but it didn't hit.

And he does only the Brave too, which is, you know, the movie directed by the guy who made Maverick, Joe Kaczynski about the firefighters, which is an amazing movie, but also nobody saw that movie. So all this time goes by.

I like that movie. Really, really good movie, and it did make it. And then now it's finally, okay, last year, we sit down for Maverick and we were like, he did it. But here's the thing. That should have been two years earlier. I know. So he's basically almost like an athlete that blew out his ACL and missed two seasons. That was the pandemic for Top Gun.

But all that happens in 2020 for him if we have no pandemic, because that would have come out that summer, right? Or it would have been 21. No, it would have been that summer. I think it would have been 20. I think it's out on the shelf for two years. So that timeline all adds up. So we have to wait another two years. And now he's got the most steam he's ever had.

The only thing he did that I wish he had waited for a slightly bigger project was the offer. We're like, I wanted him toplining an HBO series. That's something that I think he can and probably will do down the road. We'll see what kind of movies he picks going forward. I don't think he even has a movie planned post Maverick. The good is nobody saw the offer. Yeah. So I still feel like he has that.

car, but you're right. There's some sort of seven-episode HBO show that he could crush at some point. He also, I mean, he conceivably, I guess he's maybe too young for the last of us guy, but he could have been in a zombie apocalypse, whatever. A whole bunch of ways he can go. He's really

flexible, right? He can do a romance, he can do like a sleepless in Seattle kind of part. He can do comedy. He can do an athlete. I need to find my daughter. My daughter's been kidnapped. One do the longest yard kind of a movie. He could do that kind of a movie. He's really really flexible, old school classic American male actor archetype. So, in this movie, he's also, he was a drummer. That's one of the reasons of the movie works. He wasn't a jazz

drummer, but he was a rock and roll drummer. And so he knew how to perform. And so much of the movie is just watching him drumming. And feeling like you buy him relentlessly pushing himself to get better and to destroy his hands and his body to get better. And again, to your athlete point, like, you needed a physical guy. You needed a guy who you could believe would be like pushing himself to the absolute limit. And he's great at that. Yeah, the best sports movies have always had somebody that I believe they were actually really good at the sport. I was just watching Longest Yard two days ago because it was on the ending. Bert Reynolds is such a great quarterback.

He's the most believable quarterback we've ever had in that movie. So Chazelle finished the script in 2013, and you told the whole story about how it went, but it was based on his being in a really competitive jazz band in high school that he seemed like pretty scarred from. Hopefully that doesn't happen to Ben Simmons. Do you feel like Ben is being pushed hard? No. He loves it. That's why he's doing it.

We're not like, hey, Ben, got to practice the bass tonight. Like, he actually likes it. Like, he listens to it. And he can hear all the different instruments, which I think, like, I used to have this ability when I would go to basketball games. I could see all the people on the floor. And I could see what everybody was doing. I can't really do it anymore because I haven't gone enough.

But you hit that stage. with if you're really good at something with a lot of people where you can just see everything all at the same time. And I think that's when you're in jazz you can hear all the different instruments at the same time, which I think, you know, that's why the J.K. Simmons character is so he's so compelling because he is, like, he is a former great. He can hear every single thing that might be a tiny bit off

within five seconds. I don't know how realistic that is. I have some kind of unanswerable questions about that. Yeah. So we should come back to it. One thing I wanted to say about that that I think is so interesting is, this is a great time to rewatch this movie because of Tar. And this is, this is, this is Tar in reverse. It's like, tar seen through the eyes of Krista,

the young woman who is sort of like the victim that kicks off a lot of the craziness in the movie Tar. Because, you know, Lydia Tar is just like the Fletcher character, controls the room, can hear every, you know, minute detail as she's going through as a performance is taking place. The hand gestures that you're seeing from Fletcher reminded me so much. much of watching Cape Blanchett and Tar, the idea of controlling time and also being a dictator. And controlling the room. Yeah, exactly. And controlling the people.

But they say great movie directors are like that, too. Absolutely. It's an amazing metaphor for that. Yeah, I forget who told that story once on one of my podcasts about they were crashing a movie set and they were watching this director. And this whole scene was happening. And the director became obsessed with some extra in the way they were standing and all this other stuff happened. It was like, go backwards. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Extras in the wrong spot. But you always hear those stories about directors where there's 100 people on the set and they somehow see everybody in the set. I don't want to reveal the identity of this person, but I had dinner with an actor a couple weeks ago and he told me a story about working with one of our favorite directors. And he told me a story of how that director communicated to him

that he was fucking up a take, which is that he said no words. And he just gave him a look that was very intense and entirely focused on him. And he freaked out and he had a person. Meldown, but then he worked that much harder to nail the take the next time around, and he had a huge, like, complex about the way he was failing in this performance. But then the next day, he watched the director do the exact same thing to another actor, made him feel better and realized that that was a way of not embarrassing him, but communicating to him how to get better. And it's one of those things where like, that's a weird job. And being a conductor or managing a band is a strange job. The way that Fletcher does it, that's not really how you're allowed to lead at all. our society anymore. You know, like, Bobby Knight is not an accepted coaching style anymore. Like, a lot of those things have moved, we've moved away from all of that stuff. So it's interesting

to watch this movie in that context because even in 2014, we were like, this is not acceptable. Like, this is awful and dangerous and this guy's a monster. But we were closer to a time when the dictator was realistic. Yes, was realistic. And now that's why I ask about Ben. I'm so curious. like, can you intimidate a 16-year-old who's trying to play bass in a jazz band? Probably not. Probably not. I mean, basically, he would lose his spot

or whatever, I guess would be the good intimidate. I intimidate Craig all the time. We have to head it out when I start screaming obscenities out. This movie won the Sundance Award. It was nominated for Best Picture, one supporting actor, best editing, and best sound mixing. 3.3 million dollar budget made $49 million. Pretty good.

Did really well overseas, not as well in the States. Wesley wrote for Grantland Chiselle is pilfering from Scorsese but meaningfully star-makingly he's one of a tiny few American directors to come out

from under all that influence and to speak in a new original language Whiplash adopts a psychotic sense of doom similar to what course through taxi driver a film about narcissism unraveling sanity and also sort of societal collapse

I want you to know that I pulled that exact same quote out and put it in my document first of all love Wesley one of the great writers. Decent writer, that Wesley. He put something also really interesting

in his, he had it on his 10 best list for the year. Yeah, he loved it. In his summary of it, he wrote, is abuse abusive when the abucee

thinks he's thriving on it? Chazelle appears to be of two minds that ambiguity harmonizes perfectly with his unambiguous talent, which I thought really summarized what I like

about this movie, which is it doesn't decide that what Fletcher is doing is only awful, that like there is no upside. It doesn't mean that what he's doing is the right way to teach. It doesn't mean that he's a good person. It doesn't mean any of those things.

But it does mean that maybe, just maybe, Teller's character does improve, does push himself. Oh, yeah. And there's like, that's a really complex moral dilemma to accept that being pushed into uncomfortable and dangerous circumstances might make you better at something and is being better at it worth it, which I love. Well, Fletcher says that. He says, when they had the big jazz bar scene, He says, I was there to push people beyond what's expected of them. I believe that's an absolute necessity. You can't push people like that anymore. So I guess we'll find out in 20 years.

We're going to find out. We're still going to have great people. Maybe, maybe not. Categories, most rewatchable scene. The opening, we're just into it. There's no, like, I watched, we watched some terrible movie last night, actually, my wife and I, with Richard Gear and Diane Keaton. and Susan Saranda.

Susan Saranda. No, it just came out. Oh, oh wow. It's like somebody's getting married. It's one of those movies. I was barely watching. But the movie starts with like two and a half minutes of opening credits before we get to the movie. And my wife and I were watching, we're like,

movies don't do this anymore. They just kind of get into it. Yeah. This movie, we're just, all of a sudden, he's just banging the drums. There's JK. Now the camera's going back and forth. and we're off. And he doesn't really let up.

There's a couple moments where, you know, the couple of the romantic scenes would tell her and his girlfriend, like, that's where you take a breath. But for the most part, we're just off. Yeah, that's why I use the train metaphor, right? You're just, it's a non-stop movie. I remember the first time I saw it, I saw it at, um,

it was at a film independent thing at Lachma. And I was, the seats at the time, I don't know if they're still bad, but they were so uncomfortable. And the movie makes you so uncomfortable. You're just like shifting around in your seat. And I remember I literally, you know, they say like, you know, you're gripping your seat tight, but I literally was pulling cotton out of the bottom of the seat because of the way that it keeps ratcheting and ratcheting and ratcheting.

And I had such an visceral reaction to it, which is really what I look for with a movie now. Like if it can really get me feeling tight, then I know that it's working on me. You just want to feel again. I'm so dead inside that I just want to feel something. That is true, though. A movie cutter. It's why I love horror movies. It's why I love action movies.

like because I just want to feel stuff like that. And this movie had such a strong effect on me because of what you said, like it starts and it just starts just tightening and tightening and tightening. And you see this guy, like the vices on his head. Yeah. As he's learning how to drum and drum and drum.

So effective. That Richard Gear movie is called Maybe I Do. My recommendation is don't. That's a tough one. Gear, Keaton, Sarandon, it's 2023. And your guy, William H. Macy.

Oh. Well, those are all my guys. All four of them. Yeah. It's like a rom-com with old people. Was Keaton's performance better or worse than her work as K in the Godfather films? It's equally as terrible.

It's really rough. Next rewatchable scene, Fletcher gets rid of the Happy Meal Kid. There's no fucking Mars bar down there. What are you looking at? Look up here. Look at me. Do you think you're out of tune?

Yes. I've carried your fat ass for too long, Mets. I'm not going to have you cost us a competition because your mind's on a fucking happy meal instead of on pitch. Jackson, congratulations, your fourth chair. Mets, why are you still sitting there? Get the fuck out!

That's really like, oh, this guy's a monster. Cool. He's going to break this kid down and make a cry. He seems like a dickhead. Are you a rusher or a dragger? That whole scene. Start counting. Five, six, seven.

In four, damn it. Look at me. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. One, three, four. One, two, three. Now, was I rushing or was I dragging? I don't.

Count again. One, two, three. One, two, three. One, two, three. Russian or dragging? So you do know the difference. If you deliberately sabotage my band, I will fuck you like a pig. Now, are you a rusher, or are you a dragger?

Or are you going to be on my fucking time? I'm going to be on your time. What does that say? That's when he dials it. up. Yeah. This is the, this is kind of

of the legend that's, slapping them. This is the legend making thing, right? They use this in the trailer.

Yeah. This is the thing that they would parody on Saturday Night Live. It's the thing that he probably gets quoted to him

the most in his career. Yeah. Was I rushing or was I dragging? It's just, you know it's ripped completely out of his personal experience because it has a

lingo that you don't necessarily know, but you understand right away. And that's another good thing about this movie. It has like all of this jargon and this music speak. Yeah. But it's not alienating.

It's not confusing. It's kind of like a top gun kind of a movie where you're like, they're kind of talking in their code, but we're interested in what their codes mean. He manages to offend any demo that you're looking for in this scene and the previous scene. He also hits Teller a bunch of times, which they did some fake versions of it when they kept doing scenes. And then finally, Simmons and Teller were like, should I just hit you for real? and towers like, bring it on.

And really slaps them like five, six times. And that was the take they used. In the commentary, Simmons is lapping it up when he's rewatching the scene. Simmons is like, oh, yeah, I was really slapping miles there. It was great. I thought it was in Oz again. Thought it was beating the hell out of Beecher. The dinner scene is hilarious.

Yeah. I am sure. Oh, hey, are you going to tell him about your game this week? You're living up to your title? What a score of 93 year I touched out. School record, school record. School record. That's that?

That's my time? It's Division III. It's Carlton football. It's not even Division 2. It's Division 3. Got any friends, Andy? No. Why's that?

I don't know. It's never really saw the use. Oh, who are you going to play with otherwise? Lennon and McCartney, they were a school buddies, and am I right? Charlie Parker didn't know anybody until Joe Jones threw a symbol at his head. So that's your idea of success, huh? I think being the greatest musician of the 20th century is anybody's idea of success. Dying, broke and drunk and full of heroin at the age of 34 is not exactly my idea.

I'd rather die drunk, broke at 34 and have people at a dinner table talk about me, then live to be rich and sober at 90, and nobody remember who I was. Ah, but your friends will remember you. That's the point. None of us were friends with Charlie Parker. That's the point. Travis and Dustin, they have plenty of friends and plenty of purpose. I'm sure they'll make great school board presidents someday. Oh, that's what this is all about. You think you're better than us? Catch on quick. You can model you in?

I got a reply for you, Andrew. You think Carlton football is a joke? Come play with us. Four words you will never hear from the NFL. Who wants dessert? With Chris Malky is the uncle. Yes. And the two football idiots. I have some Malky questions for you. Does anybody know who Chris Malky is besides me and you?

I mean, his IMDB is almost unassailable. He goes back to 48 hours in the early 80s. First blood. Yeah, first blood. He's in everything. I love the, when they're like, why don't you come out in a football field sometime and see how to go and see whatever. see if whatever and he's like four words you'll never hear for the NFL i just like i love teller is just such a dick and it's so perfect i think um i have some picking nits for that scene too for later so chisel

said that's a scene that they tried to get him to cut and that he shot that scene first overall in part because it was like a trick that sidney lumet had talked about in his book making movies about how you always shoot the thing early on um where like always begin your films with a shot he would threaten to lose in the final product to keep casting crew on their toes. So it would be like he would say to everybody, they don't want this scene in the movie. We got to make this the best possible scene it can be. And then he gets people motivated at the start of something, which I always thought was a cool little twist. That started to tell Craig with the Ringer Fantasy Football Show.

It's like, they don't want this pod. Who's they? I don't know. You? You? You didn't know who they was. The other thing I love about this scene, it's a drive-by shooting of Carlton football. Card football like they had to basically get rid of it after this movie.

Like we're done. J.K. comes in and breaks down about the kid who died in the car accident. Yeah. Sean Casey. A little confusing because of the baseball player, Sean Casey. Yeah, I would have gone different name. But then goes into three drummer roulette for five hours.

Is that really the fastest you can play? You worthless Jaime fuck. No wonder mommy ran out on you. Get off the fucking kid. and here comes Mr. Gay Pride of the Upper West Side himself Unfortunately this is not a Bed Midler concert We will not be serving cosmopolitans and baked Alaska

So just play faster than you give fucking hand jobs Will you please? One two, one, two Andrew losing his part to Connolly And then breaking up in the coal Is like And then going into the Earn Your Part scene That whole stretch

Yeah Which is just pure Pure psychological. That's like pure Travis Bickle, that whole sequence of the movie. You know, it's like he's losing his mind because of the way that this guy is psychologically torturing him is amazing. And if you go back and look at the movie again and again and again, you can see that it's not just that Fletcher is like Bobby Knight, right? He's not just like yelling at him and trying to get him to do well. He does the thing where he's like really nice to him. Yeah.

He's charming him. Ropes him back in. And then he ropes him back in. And then he brings in another guy. And he's like, oh, I saw a kid practicing. And, you know, he also was working in this time signature. And I thought I'll bring him in and we'll see how, and he runs hot and cold, hot and cold. And he is this really, really, you know, satanic figure, the way that he is drawing people in and then blowing them out over and over again.

Such a fascinating character, the Fletcher case. I've been doing that to CR for like 12 years. So true, yeah. CR, we're definitely going to do Sicario this week. We're definitely going to do it for sure. You know what? I changed my mind. Yeah, you got to keep CR in his toes.

The car accident scene is a. Amazing. And out of nowhere, I have some nitpicks for it, too. But really, well-filmed car accident gets there anyway. Neiman, you're done. What's your version of that, playing hurt, showing up to the performance, bloody, handbroken? Oh, my God. What's a podcast you did where you were just like, I'm barely getting through this?

Probably when we were at Sundance, when we had to do one of those live shows with the altitude and two days of drinking, just having to have a new, have to impress A crowd. Once upon time in Hollywood, we did. Yeah, and I was just about to have COVID coursing through my veins. COVID was kind of lingering over the theater. The jazz bar scene. So imagine if Jones had just said, well, that's okay, Charlie. I was all right.

Good job. When Charlie thinks to himself, well, shit, I did do a pretty good job. End of story. No bird. That to me is. An absolute tragedy. But that's just what the world wants now. You'll wonder why jazz is dying.

I'll tell you, man. And every Starbucks jazz album just proves my point, really. There are no two words in the English language more harmful than good job. But is there a line? You know, maybe you go too far and you discourage the next Charlie Parker from me. ever becoming Charlie Parker. No, man, no. Because the next Charlie Parker would never be discouraged.

Yeah. Now, you've seen this movie a few times. This could almost go into what's age the worst because you know it's coming. It's just the surprise of it is age the worst. It's an amazing swerve. It's so good. It's just because you almost feel like the movie is heading toward, he's like a dead poet society ending or something where he goes back.

and Fletcher's cleaning out his room and, hey, man, I just wanted, you know, but it's not. It goes a whole other direction and it goes up to another level. We have, we get to see him play of music, we get to see the whole Charlie Parker, the next Charlie Parker would never be discouraged. It's really, the whole movie is in this scene. Everything you want to know what it's about is here. And it would be my runner-up choice for rewatchable. After rushing and dragging? No, I love the ending.

Oh, okay. I love the ending of this movie. I think it's great. So they're linked, obviously, right? The sort of like his curiosity about where Fletcher's at, him going to watch Fletcher perform play piano in this jazz. It's like a classic abusive

relationship. He should be running from this guy and instead he's like, I wonder Fletcher's up to him. So he goes back to his bad boyfriend to have a drink together. And Fletcher once again is Ropa doping him. He's charming him again. He draws him into the JVC performance. He sets him up to

embarrass him, which I think strains a little bit of credulity. I had it in picking nits. That being said, it's an amazing movie device. Yeah. And when he does embarrass him, you're like, God damn, this is brutal. And then obviously, Andrew follows that up by putting on this bravura performance. And that, the stretch when he starts, when he takes over the show and he starts drumming, that was when I started ripping the cotton out of my seat where, you know, you're like

waiting and waiting and waiting for the movie to explode. But it's hard to watch. I mean, it's like... I think J.K. Simmons is amazing in that scene. And that's what I was thinking about. You know, Pacino would have been too old at this point. But like 1994, Pacino, absolutely, they would have tried to get him to be the whiplash guy.

And I think he would have actually gone... He's one of the great actors who've ever had. But you have to be, like, in the moment, but you can't go over the top with that. I think a lot of actors just would have really gone for it and overacted the scene. Jay, whatever he's doing in that, I think, is really compelling. One thing that I think really helps him that would have been harder for another actor who looked different than him is, you know, he's a really strong guy.

Yeah. He's in really good shape. He's his uniform is black. You know, he's dressed like an undertaker. He's a black t-shirt, a black jacket, black pants, black shoes. They cut to those shoes over and over again. And he's got that chrome dome. And so he looks like skeletor or something.

You know what I mean? Like he's like a monster up there. conducting and he's not like a haggard 60-year-old Al Pacino you know with like a goatee and an eccentric music teacher like physicality to him man it needs he's he is denaro used to have it he did he you mentioned Arley ermie and to me he's much more like the drill sergeant in full metal jacket that seems to be a really strong inspiration Louis Gossett Jr same thing chrome dome I watched the last half hour of officer and the gentleman to prepare for this actually is that a rewatchable I think it might be okay

How do you think Taylor Hackford feels knowing that Proof of Life came before Officer and a Gentleman on the rewatchables? Probably still confused. What do you have for most rewatchable? Rushing or dragging is most rewatchable to me because it's become the most iconic. But I like your last scene. I like the last 25 minutes of this movie. I know.

It's really good. Once we're at the jazz bar, probably going to keep watching at that point. Let me ask you a question. First time you saw that movie ends. Andrew, that agonized look on Teller's face has completed this just extraordinary performance of Caravan. Were you like, Simmons' character was right,

and he's now a great drummer? Or did you think this was like a tragedy and that they basically destroyed this kid's life? I actually was, I was the more optimistic. I was like, that was great. He fucking pulled it out of him, man. He did it. But he reached true greatness

That was all he wanted Because I think the whole point of this character And Chazelle even says that Is he gave some interview Where he's like this kid's probably dead in his 30s He probably gets in a You know he probably burns out Because he wants it too badly

But I think for this one night he has it I thought it was such a good ending At the risk of getting too psychological Where does that come from? What do you mean? Like the Andrew character His dad is played by Paul Reiser And he seems like a nice guy

He was a writer didn't really make it, went on to become an English teacher. But his dad's an important character because his dad didn't totally make it. He's like a failed novelist. He doesn't want to end up like his dad. So is that where you think it comes from for Andrew? That he's like, I need to improve on my generational legacy.

I need to be the one. I need to be as great as I can be. Because it's a thing that some people have it and some people don't. He doesn't want a girlfriend. He's like, I want to be great at this one thing. I'm obsessed with this. This is the thing I want. this is all I care about is this,

which I think is usually a recipe for disaster, 909 of under times, and in this movie is probably, ends up being a disaster. He's probably dead in 10 years. It's so interesting how we

mythologize this stuff, and for the most part, like for the last 50 years prior to like 2015, it was a good thing. It was Michael Jordan. You know, it was like, no one can get in my way.

Yeah, but now we're watching with Brady. Like, Brady's like fucking broken. Brady's made a lot of money and he won seven Super Bowl. and he's the goat and he's the unhappiest he's ever been. That's amazing. But is that only a product of conditioning yourself

to only be focused on being good at this one thing? I think it is. So you're saying I've been making a mistake by being entirely focused on the ringer for eight consecutive years? No, because we've been more rounded. And also, you know, I look at the way I was in the 2000s where I just, I wanted to be the biggest sports columnist.

That's what I wanted. I wanted to be the most red person who was considered anytime you talked about sports writers I had to be mentioned first that's all I wanted and I wanted to destroy everybody my path. Why?

I don't know. That's what's so interesting about this movie, about the idea. Like, I don't know that I have necessarily that exact thing, but I do,

like I always wanted us, this to be really successful. That was really important to me personally. We always bonded over that. Why? Why do I care about that? I'm still,

it's a very, it's a deep psychological question that the movie is so good at like scraping on your brain. And saying, like, why do people care about being so great about things? Well, Grant Land and the ringer were two different things, right? Because Grant Land was like, we actually had a chance to be great. And I think we all saw it.

And we had a lot of great people. And we had so many good writers and so much creativity. And there were some meetings where I were like, wow, I'll remember this meeting for the rest of my life. Shit like that. And then the ringer was kind of came out of like ESPN was claiming that, you know, this couldn't be profitable. or this, and we were like, they're wrong. We can actually redo this and we can make it successful. Fuck you, watch this.

And it was the same kind of thing, right? It was like you're driven to prove each thing. So that's almost to me like, and I agree with you, there's almost like a revenge quality to that. And that's almost like what the Fletcher character is. The Fletcher character is a guy who didn't make it as a musician. In fact, they don't even really talk about that. They don't really mythologize it.

We see him play, and we're sure that he's a good musician because he understands music deeply. but he's not a famous musician and he's just a teacher but Fletcher might feel like he's the best teacher because he's at the best school and he's probably like I'm the single best of this I'm the arbiter of who gets to be great at this

so that's his motivation yeah he's basically like Phil Jackson crossed with whoever he I mean Phil Jackson's even a wrong analogy because Phil Jackson's always smart enough to gravitate the stars I guess he's more like Belichick I don't even need Brady I can just give me 53 guys

I'm always gonna I'm always gonna be here One of my favorite things is In the bar scene when he admits that he never had a bird Which is of course like in a self-indictment That like his methodology doesn't work You know that it's not about that Or he just never found the right bird

Do you think that's it though Because that's again there's so many good Psychological You know Cleaving moments in the movie Where you can kind of decide how you feel about the world Do you feel like MJ was always going to be MJ no matter what? Because he just had the athletic gifts and the psychological will to do it.

But he had to get kicked in the nuts a couple of times. I know, and we love to tell that story about getting cut from his team. I think Mahomes is like that. Mahomes, you know, even he went 13th in the draft. He didn't start his first year. Then he had to get over the Patriots. Yeah. He had some nice built-in humps.

Yeah. I think right now... It's like CR. C.R. is like I was the chosen one. And they passed me over for years until Bill came along. I think the LeBron with the last dance was like, now LeBron's going to play to his 50. So he saw the 10 hours of the last dance.

He's like, oh my God, my narrative has slipped away. I've got to get this back. And he's been kind of unhinged ever since the last dance came out in a lot of ways. Yeah. He's definitely been pre-last dance, post-last dance, LeBron was different because that was what was driving. And Brady, you know, was driven to leave New England and win one more. and then it happened

and he literally didn't know what to do with himself and came back families destroyed now I think it applies to like all sorts of things filmmakers and actors I think about this stuff

this way too they're competitive they want to be the best it's so it's a really great test case for a lot of these ideas it's not so hard

when you when you climb them out and then then you just kind of look around I mean how much art how much pros has come out of that moment you know

some of the best pieces have been in sports have been about the kind of what do I do now. That's like the end of the graduate, right? They're at the end of the bus. And they just kind of look at each other or the end of the candidate with Redford.

Same thing. What do we do now? Now what? Yeah. Yeah. It's, I don't know. I've never gotten there, so I can't say. Craig, what's it like?

Ring your fantasy football. It's miserable at the top. What's age the best? Oh, let's take a break, actually. This episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big, let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Viori, I got to say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot.

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I like every father's son seen with Teller and Paul Riser. I just like Paul Riser. He's good to happen in this. I agree. He's a great father figure. Where do you stand on Melissa Benoist? I think it's Benoist. Benoist.

Never totally made it, but I've always liked her in anything I've seen. She was Supergirl. She was Supergirl. Right. So she got Supergirl. I think she's good. I think she's like quite effective in this movie in the little bits that she's used. But she's like a prop, right, to tell to further Andrew's story in many ways.

I have something for her for later. Okay. You're in the first chair. Let's see if it's just because you're cute. Listen. Yep, that's why. It's just so brutal. I think that's a single most brutal moment.

Such a dickhead. Same spot. Three, four. Well, you're in the first chair. Let's see if it's just because you're cute. three, four. Yep, that's fine. Drums.

Would never happen now, obviously. The concept of the backup drummer that can be used as a motivation for the weed guy. I was thinking we might need this for Craig. Yeah. Just have... Just an intern sitting right behind him.

He's producing the pot and just somebody's sitting behind them. Who's on a roster in at like Kai or Jade maybe? You know, like just start putting them in the watchable seat. I don't like how Craig's listening. I'm like, Craig, get out. Guy, you're in. I have in the What Stage the Best The Dracula the Musical Award for Best Imitation

in Real Art. The fucking Mouse Tower is a drummer and J.K. Simmons is a conductor. They're pulling it off. I totally believed it. So I didn't know this until I was researching the movie, but J.K. Simmons also studied music in college. So he's two guys who were like,

certainly not jazz musicians, but they get it. Did you know if Fletcher is a person who puts the feathers on arrows? I read that. That Fletcher was preparing the next bird. I don't know if this is true or Shazel ever thought of that, but I'm putting that in what's age the best? It's a great one.

If Shazel thought of that, like great job by him. I agree. That's a really funny one. And then I didn't know this, but I'm putting this in what stage the best. J.K. Simmons, two cracked ribs after Teller tackled him. Oh. Just kept filming two more days. He's like, I was fucking out of us. I'll be fine.

Again, speaking of Tarr, the same thing happens in Tarr. I think Todd Field watched this movie. Lydia Tarr tackles a guy on stage. That was my runner up for hottest take where Tarr kind of cribs this movie a couple of times. A little bit. It's on the corner. What else do you have for what stage is about saying? Just tell her.

Just picking him, you know, and saying, because Shazelle says, I don't know how true this is, but he says when he was writing it, he was thinking of Miles Teller. Interesting. Which is, that's a big stroke for a young actor who hadn't done a lot of stuff at that time. But as we said before, like, it paid off. Like, he really. What's he going to say? He's like, I was thinking to James Vanderbeak.

Well, I read, you know, this is a casting catch thing too. I don't know how true it is, but I read Dane Dahan was offered it and didn't take it. And Dane Dahan at that time was a, you know, could be one of the next big guys. So I weeded that out of casting win-ifs. I didn't believe it. I believe the television. Yeah, yeah, I believe the television. Kid Cuddy pursued a Hapistinward for Best Needle Drop.

I mean, there's five needle drops that just belong to the music. So I don't even know what you'd pick on this. So one cool thing about this is there are a bunch of songs in this that you'd listen to and you'd be like, oh, that's been around for 60 years. And Justin Hurwitz wrote it for the movie. And Justin Irwitz, who is Chazil's composer, is already won Academy Awards. He's, like, one of the most celebrated composers in Hollywood now. College roommate.

They're boys. They conceive their movies together. He's a fucking genius, this guy. If you just go back and listen to the soundtrack, you're listening to a 27-year-old guy, 28-year-old guy writing historical jazz compositions in this very specific kind of jazz style that is not super popular. That's the other thing about this movie is like, this isn't Miles Davis that we're talking about here. You know, this is this big, brassy, loud.

kind of aggressive jazz band style. So all the things you think, like all things I thought were needle drops. And I would go back and listen. I'd be like, oh, he wrote that. Yeah. That's kind of cool. He reminds me of that guy

who does the succession theme. It's this new wave of... Nicholas Fertel. Yeah, and their friends, and they've collaborated before. Nicholas Patel and Justin Hurwitz wrote a song together on this soundtrack that sounds like it was recorded in 1937.

And you listen to it, you're like, wow, these guys are virtuosos. Big Kuhna Burger Word, Best Use of Food and Drink. I invented the Eminent him in the popcorn trick. I knew you're going to pull this. So when I see it in movies, I feel like it's an homage to me. I'm always delighted. But I mean,

people know I invented that. You invented it. Call it the Simmons. It's Raisin-Sach, isn't it? Well, it is Raisin-Sk. I was the first person ever who put Eminem in the popcorn. How of your residuals been going on that? Prove me wrong. How much have you earned on that invention? We're doing that in the 80s. Who pays you on that?

AMC. Sinemark. People are like, what are you doing? Never knew you could do that. I got a tell you, I hate that. If I want popcorn, I'll get popcorn. If I want candy, I'll get candy. I do not want those two things together. You think all the M&Ms are gone, and then it's like, oh, there's one more.

That's disgusting. And they're melting and they're full of butter. They're melting is the best part. That's heinous. So good. That's so gross. Denny Thieves Benihana Award, Scene Stealing Location, the Jazz Bar? I was going to say the broom closet where he's practicing.

The broom closet is good, yeah. Great Shot Gordo Award. A lot of cinematic shots here. Opening scene. I really like the bloody hand in the ice. That's what I put. Bloody Hand in the pitcher is what I wrote. And the ending. The way they're going back and forth between the drumming and JK coming over the set

and just getting more and more excited by it. Because he's kind of finally having his moment, too, of, oh, this is actually real greatness. I did it. One other thing that this isn't one specific shot, but it's a series of shots is Chazelle describes the movie as a movie of faces because it's constantly cutting away to other people's reactions to the things that Fletcher is doing. I love that. If you look at the movie again, it's also a lot of insert shots.

you see the drum against the drum kit, you know, twisting, yeah, Boogie Nights. A lot of like, here are the little details of this world and here are how the people feel about what's happening in this world. Butch's girlfriend Award Weeklink of the film. I actually like his girlfriend in this movie. I just think they're missing one scene. We don't have one.

I need a scene with them. Maybe it's too corny, but the, I don't feel the connection with them, but I like both actors. and to me that means it's missing a scene. You see her four times. First time at the movie theater with his dad. Which is a good scene.

Second time at the movie theater, where he asked her out. Third time they get pizza. Fourth time they go to the diner, and then he calls her on the phone. Yeah. The call on the phone is like an amazing swingers-esque scene where you're just like, oh my God.

This is so painful where she's like, I've got to ask my boyfriend. I kind of don't want any more of her than that. Then the pizza scene needed to be better or whatever. Yeah. I just need something. some reason to make me believe he's losing something that he blew this, because I don't. Because I feel like he's Travis Bickle. I don't feel like he's a normal kid.

So she's the civil shepherd? Yeah, and I think he doesn't really ultimately care. He only cares about drumming. That's all he really cares about. Yeah. And that's why we don't really know anything about her or understand her in any way. What's age the worst? The mean-spirited insults. This would be a very interesting 20-23 movie because it would be too unrealistic that this guy was doing it in class. Tar was a little more realistic because these are adults

and I think in a school structure there's no way somebody would have recorded it somebody would have burned him in some way One of the best things about Tar is that it shows the contrast by having a scene set in a classroom where she's teaching kids and the kids are just mortified by her outmoded way of thinking about the world and that's not your boyfriend's dick do not come early is not going in 2020.

I mean whether or not that makes sense You know, this is an ongoing conversation on this show. It was pre-Trump. Even beyond... This character was realistic in 2014. It just was. But even though we don't see this stuff portrayed as much and people are much more offended publicly by some of this stuff, there are still fucking evil people in the world.

There are still people who are abusive in the workplace, who are cruel to students. They're far less common because they get drummed out more often. But this sort of stuff still lingers in our culture. and so I'm kind of curious to see over the next 10 years how this stuff evolves because I feel like it's got a whip back in a way because you can't just have a bunch of movies where people are nice to each other all the time. Let's bring it back.

This movie works because it has an amazing fucking villain at the center of it who transforms the lead character into kind of a villain into kind of a monomaniacal, obsessive, sad kid. Well, now the TV version of this, the anti-hero we have to end up like rooting for him in some way. You're not rooting for JK Simmons. No, no, no, that's true.

Double fucking rainbow is a, age to worse, just because I don't think anyone under 22 would even know that was the thing. It made so much sense in 2014. You know, that line is also in the short film, and it sticks out in the short film, too, where you're like, that's kind of a hip internet reference for a jazz conducting teacher. Is this really a guy who's on YouTube a lot? Any other age to worst? I find the film's criticisms from the time that I think it was very divided.

Some people absolutely loved it. It was on tons of 10 best lists. It was hugely praised. but there were some really strongly worded criticisms that seemed really hung up on how accurate of a movie this was about jazz and this is something that you hear about like in all of Chiselle's criticism

is just like he doesn't understand jazz white guy trying to explain jazz but like I just don't really think I think he loves jazz and a very certain kind of jazz and that's fine and so he keeps putting it in his movies but I just don't think the movie is about that I think the movie is very much about work and ambition and like the way that ambition poisons people

and it can lead to greatness but it can lead to consequences to the greatness. And so I just was going back and reading some of the negative pieces about the movie. And I was like, this is so weird. It's just a bunch of critics showing off how much they know about the history of jazz music. It just seems like a real waste of time. There's a racial component to it, too, that some people tapped into, which I partially get. But it's a, you know, Shazelle, it's this autobiographical.

But you easily could have, I don't know. I just think Teller was the perfect person for this, especially because of his drumming background. There's another actor who could have done it. Great, but there wasn't. There's an aspect of this in Babylon, too, where there's a, you know, there's a black jazz musician who's one of the main characters, and he's really slighted in the story. He doesn't get as much screen time as Brad Pitt character or Margot Robbie's character

or even Diego Calva's character. And there's a reason for that. It's because those characters were slighted historically by Hollywood and in the entertainment industry. And so I think he's very knowing about that stuff, but I think it's very easy to take a shot at the 30-year-old guy who's like, let me explain jazz to you. But that's not really the point of the movie. Ron Burgundy Flew to Wear Best Time for a Peep Break. I didn't have one. I don't think this movie drags.

It's a pretty tight movie. Yeah. It's like an hour and 36 minutes or something. That's good. Better title for the movie. You could call it Caravan maybe because that's the ending, but I still like whiplash more because I think there's like double triple. With the car accident, there's a great double entendre there.

I wrote drummed out. That might have pushed you too far in direction of telling you what the movie was about, but that's kind of what's happening is that he's constantly being pushed to get out of this space, but he won't give it up. I'm glad it didn't have a loser Hollywood title like, Fletcher's Law or something like that because we've seen them

conduct this right right best quote there are no two words in the English language more harmful than good job I fucking love it iconic one

I hate good job you're not a big good job guy do your job is my mantra if I hear that Craig that's what the money is for if I tell you did a good job or a great job you don't meant something because I don't

really throw that one around. How many times you think you've said it to me in the last 10 years? Many times. Do you think so? Yeah. I'll say it some more. I expect a lot from you. Stephen A. Smith had his take a word. Emiston, market corrected, Mosulenoist.

Yeah. Just tough. Emistone, tough beat for her. Yeah. Like, if Emiston never happens, maybe she's in La La Land. Who knows? Oh, Emiston is also supposed to be in Babylon, and then she wasn't at the last minute, too. but she did. She must hate Emma Stone. That's my hottest take.

You never know. There's always an Emis Stone looming ready to edge you out. You don't have one, do you? For hottest take? Yeah. Just that I think this is still by far Chazelle's best movie.

I think it's the most complete movie he's made. I think that's like a lukewarm tait. You think so? Well, no. People love La La La Land. Yeah, yeah. No, this is a better movie than La La La Land. Like he won Best Director for La La La Land.

It was a huge box office hit. It made him a megastar as a director. My family loves it. Whiplash is better. To me, this is my favorite. Now, that's a good take. Thank you. Casting one of F's, we did them.

Roughlo, Hannah Rubenek-Parcher overacting award. They knew, and they let it happen. Don't you call me, lady! I come in here. I give these things to you. Give it all you got! Give it all you got! I treated you like a son!

You fucking stand me in the heart! Fuck you! Tough one, right? Because it kind of, like, is about that. Like, it's about overdoing it. Happy Meal Kid, maybe. He's dialing it up a notch. Okay.

Best that guy where our guy, Chris Malky. You and I are the only two who knows his name. I mean... He was the uncle in the... We're talking about his bragging about his football players. He's just a great character actor. Just go look at his IMDB. It's incredible.

It doesn't end. He was Hank on Twin Peaks. He's one of the officers in First Blood who's trying to take down John Rambo. But he's been in like 300 things. He's crazy things. So many things. recasting couch

I don't really have anything for this it's fairly recent right it's one of the more recent movies we've done even in the moment I don't feel like any of the parts really missed I would say maybe you go bigger than Paul Riser and get like an even bigger actor but I don't think you need it

I wouldn't mess with like Robin Williams is Paul Riser I don't know Simmons and Teller is untouchable to me they are perfect half-ass internet research this came from when she's I was at Princeton High School,

and he had a band instructor who died in 03, but really pushed it, but wasn't as bad as this guy. He just grabbed. He basically supersized him. Howard had been drumming since he was 15 years old, but took additional lessons. Four hours a day, three days a week to prepare for the movie. Buddy Rich was famously abusive.

The Charlie Parker story was slightly inaccurate. It's apocryphal, yeah. Yeah, that he threw a symbol to the floor, not at a not at uh not a parker rightman who is uh like a godfather of this movie convinced chisel to cut a scene involving fletcher sitting alone in his apartment after andrew's first studio band class saying this is all from angers perspective you can't leave that which by the way is a great note and he's right fletcher forces neman to count off 215 bpm and insults i'm forgetting it wrong but andrew's timing was actually the right timing.

So it was part of his fucked up things that he did. These are part of my questions is one was Fletcher, did he actually have, was he able to keep perfect time was he actually the perfect conducting figure or was he just playing a psychological game? Like the football coach just getting mad at the left guard

just because he want to get mad at somebody. Apex Mountain, Simmons, yes. Tower's a tough one. I don't feel like he's had it yet. I agree I think he's got one coming For me personally It's the great balls of fire scene

Which is the best movie scene in the last five years It's an insane take but okay Fucking crews Just melting down outside the window It's just amazing stuff No I don't think Tower's had it yet But I do love him as goose I thought he was a great goose

I agree he was awesome in Maverick It's probably Maverick for now I mean that's the biggest movie he's ever been in but he's going to have something bigger. He's going to get nominated for awards and stuff. Like, he's going to have a moment. Shazelle, it's La La Land. Jazz movies,

there's been some good ones, but this, I wonder if this is the first jazz movie. You'd be like, hey, what are your favorite jazz movies? Would be this be one of the first three mentioned, probably. Yeah, I mean,

Lady Sings of the Blues comes to mind with Diana Ross. That's a bleak movie. Bird, the Clint East Woods, Bird, biopic. There's some, you know, 60s and 70s movies. that are like set in the world of jazz but aren't necessarily about jazz. I feel like Paris Blues is kind of one of those movies.

I don't know. I mean, the thing is, it's not our or at least my romantic version of jazz. It's not Coltrane, you know, this isn't that kind of cool bop era. It's something different. It didn't also lead to a run of jazz movies and people ripping up. I mean, that's the thing is too. Like, Fletcher says this in the movie, right? He's like, there's a reason jazz is dying.

Yeah. It's a late period. It's kind of, you know, the end. of something, really. So this is a movie about internet writing? That should be your debut feature. Car accident scenes,

it's really good. There's been better car accident scenes, though. For a small movie, it's amazing. For a small movie, I can't believe they pulled up. I guess it's a three composite shot thing. So the complex way that he did it kind of indicates where he's going with the way he makes his movies

where he's got this real mastery of the craft. What is the best car accident scene ever? Oh, man. I don't know. There's one in Final Destined. nation is fucking sick. Yeah, that's it. I'm going to have to Google this after we're done.

Caravan Apex Mountain, no question. Any other Apex Mountains for you? No, I think you got them all. I think you're definitely right to the Lottland is it for Chazelle. Best racehorse name. Whiplash? Yeah, Caravan. Caravan? I think all jazz titles kind of double as resource names.

Happy Mule. Pick a Knits. Why doesn't the rest of the band ever go, like, what the fuck with you and this drummer? And you and the drummer? Like, what about us? Because they don't want him to turn his ire in their direction. You know, they're like, if he's taking it, I don't have to take it.

Not one sarcastic guy who's like kind of tests. Which there was the one guy who he checked it a little bit. I don't know, man. You played sports? Like, when a coach was dressing someone down, I was like as far away from that as possible. Why is Andy's family so stupid about how well he's doing in jazz? I think we know that Paul Reiser's character knows that it's not going well,

that there's something wrong here. And he's like, he doesn't say it because he doesn't want to get in the way of his son's passion, but that he's like, he's really close to his son and he gets his son. But it is going well. He's in the number one jazz thing

at the best school, right? But he's changing, you know? There's something wrong with him right now. He's too obsessed. You know, for a 19 year old, like you think, you know about this. Like, with teenage kids and, like, their passions

colliding and becoming their obsessions, that's dangerous. Like, it's dangerous for me and the things that I love. Like, I spend way too much time on the things that I love. And it can, it ruins your relationship to those things. So I feel like,

Riser's really good in this movie at kind of communicating that all the way up until the moment when Casey dies and then they have to have that come to Jesus with the lawyer figure. Andrew's bus breaks down on the way the performance

and he rents a car over getting a taxi or just begging somebody for a ride. You know how long it takes to rent a car? It's like 20 minutes. He's also like 19? Yeah. I just have a lot of questions

about that part. Leaving the scene of an accident, Don't you go to jail? What if the accident was his fault? Yeah, yeah. I think it's a little bit of one of those like, are we in a dream state kind of moments? I don't think he's actually dreaming,

but it's meant to feel like so crazy. Like, this is an absurd moment that's happening in his life. Would Fletcher really fuck up a live performance at the JVC in front of an audience? It's my biggest nitpick of the movie. To fuck over, Andrew. Yeah, that doesn't make sense.

It just doesn't make sense. He likes jazz too much. This is it. This is his revenge. He also just lost his job. Yeah. That he's had for presumably years. So he's not going to embarrass himself. Here's this jackass kid who's our new drummer.

He's vindictive, but is he that vindictive that he's willing to threaten his livelihood? It's a stretch. Any other pickings? No, you nailed the biggest one to me. That JVC thing is the biggest issue. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable.

All black cast would be fun. I think that I wouldn't touch this movie, though. What about Young Fletcher? Prequel. Eighth grade, he's just a freaking maniac. Better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Tcha, Catherine Hahn, Steve Bouchemy, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh, or Philip Baker Hall. You know, if you're here, if C.R. We hear you, would say, God damn. Didn't know I was the old buddy rich?

I was thinking the uncle could have been Wayne Jenkins. God damn, didn't know I was the only one, Win Marcellus? Big Cron football stud! I didn't realize I had super linebacker at the table. Sorry, CR. Just won an Oscar who gets it. Well, J.K. Simmons got it. He sure did. Well, this movie won three Oscars.

It won best film editing, I think sound nominated for five Oscars and won three out of five. Probably unanswerable questions. So who took the whiplash folder that allowed him to then? Oh, I think Andrew. I think Andrew lost it. Oh, you think he lost it? I think he put himself in that position. That's why I'm like, he's not, this is Travis Bickle.

This is not a good kid. This is a kid who's trying to do anything to win. And he really sold me on that because I really felt like he misplaced it. This is for Wesley because we were texting about the secretly gay movie Hall of Fame, movies that aren't gay in any way, but yet he's convinced they were secretly gay. Like, deliverance is a good one. Shawshank is a classic. Whiplash is way up there.

Yeah, too many who love each other. Yeah, two men in like a psychotic sexual relationship. Plus it's Vern Schillinger. and we've already seen him. We have baggage. We have baggage with him. So I don't know if this is a secretly gay hallfamer, but it wasn't unanswerable for me.

Do you have any answerables? Yeah, one was like, is Fletcher actually good at his job? Like, is he actually gifted musically? Is he actually, does he understand music? The other is the big one to me, which we kind of hit on already, is just, does this work? And like you said, maybe we'll find out over the next 10 years. but does pushing people this way

and driving them crazy and losing cruelty and emotional manipulation create great art or great success? And I was just talking to my wife about this the other day because she's been at the same job for almost 17 years now

and she used to be managed by like 55 year old guys who were just from a different generation who were just like where's the fucking thing? Whereas you better hit your goddamn deadline, like nasty in the workplace. And she was just like, it has just radically changed the way that people communicate, the way that the business world works, the way that sports works and coaching, the way that we talk to teenagers,

the way that we teach kids in schools. Like, it does feel like a mass cultural change in the last 10 years. And so because of that and now nobody's going to be in an office anymore, so that's not going to help either. Human interaction is something that has changed. Like, I feel like you were just talking to Derek Thompson about this the other day. Like, all that stuff changing so much. It's so interesting to think about, like, how will we define greatness and great success and talent and the way the talent is lifted if we communicate differently to people? I'm so interested in that,

and that is the ultimate unanswerable question to me. Flipside, I haven't had a lot of good bosses in my life. I can count them on one hand, and I don't even need all my fingers. I've had great mentors, though. Yeah, yeah, mentor, right. That's a good point. And there's a fine line there. I can't believe you didn't give the Vince and Chase, or are we sure this character was really actually good at their job award to Fletcher. Fletcher deserves it. We should have thrown that in. Was Andrew a good drummer?

It seems like he was. I thought Caravani really got there. Best double-featured choice with this movie. Tar is the obvious one, but that's a long day. That's a pretty grueling, like you might need some sort of drug to get through that. I thought Officer and a Gentleman was a good combo for this because it's different eras. That's a really good movie that we should do with. some point. The Andean Red Zawatneo Award for what happened the next day. This is where

Shazelle did an interview with Screencrash, screen crush. And he said the ending implied Andrew's future would be like Charlie Parker, where he would rather die drunk and broke at the age of 34. That was where he was heading. So if Shalzze says that, then I'm going to say that. That was like when you called me and you're like coming to Grantland. And I was like, I'm on a one-way track to death. I'm just going to edit blog post until I'm 40 and then I'm going to tap out. GQ, yeah. We're at the man of the year party in nine months. What piece of memorabilia would you want for this movie? It's got to be the two bloody drumsticks, right?

I think that's good. I think, or the chair that Fletcher threw at him. Oh, that's a good one too. Over at somebody's house, what are those? Those are the bloody drumsticks from Whiplash. Cool. Or what about the sheet? What about the music sheet that Andrew stole so that Tanner couldn't get his spot?

I'd like your theory of that he did that intentionally. That's a good one. Coach Finstock Award, Best Life Lesson, there's a price to being great. Do you want to pay the price or not? Yep. What's the cost of it?

Who won the movie? Chizzo. I always say the director, I know, I always say, but this is the ultimate calling card movie. I think you're right. Normally I push back

and point to whatever, but I think you're right. He merges from this as, I like your thing about, we got one, we did it. It's pretty cool. It's exciting when that happens. I mean, Simmons wins the movie when the movie is on.

When you're watching the movie, this is J.K. Simmons's movie. Miles Teller is fantastic, but he dominates. And you walk away, when you walk out of the movie theater, you're like, whoa, that guy was evil. What an amazing performance that was. But when you look at the grand scheme of things, J.K. Simmons has gone on to do good work. Miles Teller's gotten great parts. But Damon Chazel is one of the big directors in Hollywood right now. Put him on the mat.

What do you got, Craig? You love this movie. Yeah, this movie was like a film major's wet dream. Like this came out when I was in college. And it was like, oh, they filmed this in 20 days, super cheap. Everybody was like, I want to make my own whiplash. We used to like recreate the scenes for classes. But this movie, it's funny.

The perspective that you have on this movie changes depending on where you are in your life. When I was 19, I was like, because I was 19 when this movie came out, I was like, fuck yeah. I want this. I want that coach. I want to be like pushed to my breaking point. And now I'm like, I don't know. It's something that you can really only convince a 19 year old of.

It's like being a freshman in a fraternity, I was thinking about this. That is the only time when you can be like, hey, chug mayonnaise for the next week to be in our cool club. And if like you told that to a 28 year old, they'd be like, fuck you, I'm not doing that. That's, so that being said, for me, when I saw this movie, I was 31 and I was at a, you know, Bill can attest. We were working really, really hard at that time. and I connected to the movie because I was in a period in my career where I was like, I'm past 30, I gotta go for it.

Like, I really have to throw everything in my life into this and you probably have that too where you're like, you know, you're getting married, you know, you're the king of ringer fantasy football. Skipping sleepers, you know, everything is. It's unrealistic. Like, Miles Teller's trying to be the greatest drummer

of all time and he's a 19 year old. It looks like, that's not the same as you like wanting to succeed in your job when you're 30, right? Are we sure about that? Maybe not. I think the weirdest part of this movie is that, Why does Fletcher pick Andrew?

Like, he doesn't do this to anyone else. Does he, I mean, it must mean he truly saw, like, potential greatness? I think he, when he spots him in that room practicing alone, one, Andrew does it to get noticed, and two, Fletcher identifies that this kid wants to go through my process. Yeah, this kid's, this kid, this is the, I am practicing threes at five in the morning in a dark gym, knowing the coach gets there at about eight.

This is like when you're crushing midnight run in the office, and you're like, I hope Bill walks past my laptop right now. hope he sees so that I can be on the rewatchables. That's it for the rewatchables, produced by Craig Horlebeck as always, and we will see you next week. Thanks, Sean. Thank you, guys.