The Rewatchables - ‘White Men Can’t Jump’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Rembert Browne

Episode Date: August 7, 2017

HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Rembert Browne to induct ‘White Men Can’t Jump’ into the Sports Movie Hall of Fame. They cover Woody Harrelson’s hustling tactics (6:00), Wesley Snipes’s height (11:00), Rosie Perez’s polarizing character (17:00), the essence of pickup basketball (26:00), Woody’s fashion (30:00), Wesley Snipes’s career trajectory (37:00), the black-actor championship belt (44:00), ‘New Jack City’ power rankings (48:00), and the premise of the planned remake (52:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, left it up. Mess it up. Inch by inch by play, until we're finished. You're five feet, nothing. A hundred and nothing. Shut up, old man. I ain't going nowhere.

If we played them ten times, they might win nine. But not this game. Not tonight. 60 minutes falls out. It's a paramedic sort of matter. I must break you. Welcome to the rewatchables.

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Me, Chris Ryan, our friend Remberg Brown, our old Grantland teammate about White Men Can't Jump, which is a borderline rewatchable Hall of Famer. I would say it's honorable mention for rewatchables. It is an unquestionable sports movie Hall of Fame. A little bit of a polarizing movie, too, as we discuss in this podcast. Here we go. Today's White Men Can't Jump, a movie that I've had a very conflicted relationship with over the last almost 25 years. I saw it in Worcester, Massachusetts with Jacko and Joe House, actually.

Rosie Perez on a 50-foot screen was both delightful and scarring emotionally. She's the most polarizing figure of this movie. It's a great basketball movie. I hadn't seen it a while, and I had the same reaction you did when I watched it a couple days ago. where you're watching the first 35 minutes and you go, wow, this is unbelievable. It's so good. Yeah. That first 35, 40 minutes with just the first 19 minute scene, then the second basketball scene,

then the third one, really great. And then after that really depends on how you feel about when they can't jump. Yeah, yeah. But let's talk about the first 35 minutes. Opening scene is, I looked up after it was over, at the 19 minute mark already. It's unbelievable how long that. And you don't really, you don't ever notice it. Right.

I personally don't. It moves so nice. It's almost like a Broadway play. There's three scenes within it. There's the first two on two scene with like with Wesley and the guy who gets his ankle, who rolls his ankle. And then there's all the mama jokes. And then Woody really comes into it with the three,

with the end of the two on two and then the three point shooting contest. So it's almost like a mini television show within that first 30 minutes. Right. So the plot of we met, of white man can't jump. It's basically a playground basketball movie that morphs into, Woody Harrison just repeatedly losing his money. Yeah.

And that becomes the pervasive part of the movie. But I think that... Did it feel that dated to you? I think some of the rhythms of the jokes felt dated, like the idea of stopping everything to have like a circle of insulting each other, which is not altogether different than what happens in like a Judd-Apital movie where like a scene will stop so that Jonah Hill and Seth Rogen can... It becomes a roast.

Yeah. But even with like the fashion and even, Although the fashion, like a lot of the fashion has kind of come back into style. It's true. The basketball feels very real to me and very current. Like all the way, the way that they play feels really real. And I just think that the, I felt like it was a very, the thing that I jumped out of me about the rewatch was it is such a good L.A. movie. So good.

It's like the side of L.A. you just don't ever see really. And like it's dirty. And people are living in these apartment buildings that are like pushed off of like, you know, the, off the road and weird parts, probably Culver or whatever. I think Culver City comes up on this podcast a lot. There's some crunch ah. There was all kinds of stuff. We started.

You can sit down with us. Come on in. Remember Brown joining us. So, yeah, it opens with Woody and Venice early in the morning with these guys singing. And it is like the cleanest, nicest version of Venice I've ever seen in my life. And if that Venice existed all the time, we would all be there every weekend. Unfortunately, it is that. So do you know much about like how realistic is like the culture around the

the courts out in Venice like that. Do you know much about that stuff? I don't, I don't, but I would imagine it's not that realistic. I mean, it's not the cage. It's not like the New York courts or the Rucker or something, right? I mean, I'm sure that I'm going to get roasted by West Coast basketball people right now. But like, I've lived here for 14 years, and I love basketball, and I was on basketball shows that were on ESPN, and nobody at any point ever said to me, did you get down to Venice yet?

It just never happened. But it sets up with Wesley Snipes. who we'll get to later. He's... Sidney Dean. A lot of trash talking is Sydney Dean. I can't even really describe his basketball game. But Billy Hoyle ends up, played by Woody Harrelson,

ends up scamming him for $62. And that sets off this chain of events. But we go from that basketball game to then they team... Snipes follows them home. They team up. And then Snipes double-crosses them. It's all good. It's really nice beats.

But I want to talk about that 19 minutes. scene for a second. The Yo-Mama jokes, you seem like that you feel like they were dated. I thought they were fantastic still after, like, it almost like created the Yo-Mama joke universe, right? Yeah, Khadison, now we'll be referencing this bunch, but in the, I think the first year of Grayland, Thomas Golinoplas did an oral history of white man Ken Joe. But Khadim Hardison takes a lot of credit for like the explosion of your mama jokes after this movie. I mean, like a little bit. Yeah.

They're, I mean, like, they're still funny. It's just like I think that we're used to a different It's in a weird way, it predates. It's very much like that improv comedy that we're used to now, where it seems like everything is off the cuff. It's just that, like, I can't imagine ever being in a situation where people were like, we're going to stop everything that's going on for 25 minutes of sustained mother jokes. It's also funny, like, what trips the line?

Like, your mother's an astronaut, and, like, that's the fight. It's like, my mom ain't no astronaut. It's like, I was just like, that's not that insulting. That is true. Yeah, I felt like this was like an early, there's a lot of these pre-internet movies. Yeah. And this is definitely one of them. Like the way everybody kind of goes at each other is eventually just would take place

on a message board. Yeah. And there's also, like, in that first scene, there's some stuff about like Sydney taking Michael Jordan to the hole. Like Michael Jordan came out to Venice to ball and like Sydney scored on him. And I love that like pre-internet mythology. There was all sorts of stuff about like. There's no way to check it.

I'm not even sure if it happened. But in Philly you'd always hear about like, I heard. Iron Iverson came out. I heard Iverson came by the courts. Just wearing shorts. Yeah, exactly. Like, Iverson came up. Had a mint coat out.

Yeah. Seriously, yeah. Yeah. He was wearing a starter jacket and scored 33. Yeah. So at the time, seeing this in 1992, Wesley Snipes, you knew him from New Jack City, basically. And he was Willie, he was Willie May Says in Major League, which was a big movie back then.

And then he was in New Jack City. He was in a couple Spike Lee movies. But there was still room to grow with Wesley Snipes. and totally figured him out. And this is probably his best movie, I would say, just in terms of the Wesley Snipes, the full scope of the Wesley personality. Yeah, I guess.

Everything likable and interesting and mysterious about him is all in this movie. It's also his charisma on 100. In New Jack City, it's his charisma on 100. It's evil charisma. In a evil way. And this is like, the most important thing about con man movies

is that you can see yourself being conned by that person. And Wesley, like to Ron Shelton, director, writer director's credit, It's not like a straight con movie. It's like these guys who are hustling each other, but they eventually kind of, you know, team up and fall apart and come back together. But you can see yourself get seduced by somebody like Wesley Snipes and believing, like, I need to help this guy.

Huge charisma. Yeah. We're going to talk about he did hold the black actor championship belt for a couple years. When Rem comes in, we're going to talk about that. But so he's there. We give a little background with him, but not enough yet. Yeah. So still discovering him a tiny bit.

And then Woody Harrison was basically. and was basically Woody on Cheers, and that was it. It's still at a time when, like, the TV and movie show is so hard for guys. Right. It's like, wow, Woody Harrison's in that movie. That's weird. I only know him as Woody the bartender. And, you know, for anybody Younglist in this, Cheers was one of the three biggest shows of the 80s and 90s

and was just a massive, massive pop culture, everything. Yeah. And it was hard to break out of that. And most of the people haven't. And he was playing somebody on Cheers named Woody Boyd. And so I think a- dumb, country-bunkin. And I think a lot of people just, like, associated him

with that role, right? So even if he was going to break out of that, he talks about in that oral history, it was a hard time finding movie roles. And he's like, maybe I'm just going to be on Cheers forever. And this is a real, this is a role where he got to play somebody a little dirtier,

a little bit more dark than Woody Boy, but still had some of that, like, kind of dorky charisma that he has on Cheer. So that was one of my revelations was, he's fantastic in this movie. I would say this is, he's been in some good movies and had some good roles,

and this is his best, performance. And not just that, you know, we're researched on the internet, some people who might have gotten this and like Keanuira Reeves was. So Keanu was pretty close. It sounds like. It sounds like they wanted him. That's a disaster.

He just couldn't play basketball. And they were just like, there's nothing we can do about this. That hasn't stopped a lot of other people from being cast in sports movies. Yeah. But yeah, he couldn't play basketball. I think you can hide inability. You can do just stunt doubles in football, as we saw with the replacements probably. Who can't hide it.

You can do different stuff and cut away in baseball. You can hide it. Sure. Yeah. I don't even. Could Tim Robbins pitch? Yeah. Tim Robbins.

Well, he alleges that he threw his arm out, but I don't think he could pitch. Yeah. Sorry. Costa threw like 150,000 pitches and for love of the game and was fine. His rotator cuff was. But yeah. So Denzel was in the mix for the Sydney Dean part first. But I didn't want to share it.

He was just too big. He wanted to do Malcolm X instead. So Wesley gets in there. But, but Woody Harrison, not only Revelation, not only the best person who could have played that role, really, really good hoops player. Yes. Yeah.

It's just no denying it. You watch his game and it's like a little, there's a little like Zach Levine, Chase Buttinger, kind of. He's definitely, he's got the, he's a gunner in it. It feels like he's just. Gunner with a nice handle and nice rhythm and nice stopping starts. Yeah.

Could guard bigger guys. Yeah. You could slide up or slide down. That was one of the flaws in the movie is, as they keep playing these different teams that they're trying to hustle. and then they go into the two-on-two tournament. And they can just, Woody Harrowsey can guard guys of all sizes. He's like Draymond Green.

How tall is Wesley Snipes? I mean, 5-9, 5-10? Because he's doing some pretty incredible, like, leaping out of the sky to block guys. Well, he dunks at one point, which, you know, if you create a scale of most improbable dunks and Ed Norton in American History X, the reverse two-handers at the very, very, very top,

Yeah. Snipes just casually, Snipes just casually goes flying in for a dunk here in one of the pickup games. They also shot it. With a nice little camera angle shooting up at them. Yeah. They shot it a couple of these scenes. They shoot it at a different frame speed so that they basically, like,

it does slow-mo in a really nice way. Yeah. And there's a Wesley Snipes 360 layup that would not ever work in any competitive basketball game in America. No 360 layup has ever. gotten off on a playground where anybody was trying to defend it. There's another one where the guy is going in for the lap and turns around to look at Woody Harrelson and then does this crazy flip. Yeah.

And it happens. There's a lot of slow motion to basically cut corners. But that being said, the basketball, there's very, I think this Hoosiers, I think it's the best basketball, like, in terms of like you're right there with screens being set. You can feel guys like popping open. But, I mean, we'll get to it later. but they fuck up the last scene. The last big basketball scene.

At the tournament or the last last one? The last one. Too much slow motion. And here's my biggest nitpick with this movie is the soundtrack. I love the soundtrack. Well, but if you listen to the soundtrack for that last game, first of all, where's the hip-hop? How are they not like two rap songs or hip-hop songs in this movie? Part of it is like the 92.

Part of it is that hip-hop's still breaking into the mainstream. You could have slid in like somebody. I feel like it's like a funky version. of the Midnight Run soundtrack. And that's exactly what it is. You're right. And so it's like that Danny Elfman like, da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na.

And it's, it works for what it is. I actually kind of enjoy it. I would have loved to have just thrown in because it would have like a black sheep song in there. It would be great. If there was like a choice is yours like scene in this in this movie, that would be amazing. I don't even know if that's a 92 song or if it's a little bit later.

But like it just would have been incredible. Well, one of the reasons I love a. above the rim, what a many is, is they just casually sneak in big pimping. Yes. By snoop in the dog pound for like two minutes at one point. But that song belongs to that specific era. And there is a really nice 91 to 92 hip hop slash rap era. There's like a couple songs that could have just pulled out.

Give me like the perfect basketball song from late 91. You could have gone super early Tupac at that point. Yeah. I mean, you could have had something like. You want somebody in West Coast. You could add like scenario playing or something like that. Yeah, somebody. Yeah.

Or even like if they had done PM Dawn, I wouldn't have been upset. I don't think those guys would have been listening to PM Dawn. I don't think the guys that might make a get jump mess with him. So with his game, we would compare him to a little Zach Levine. Short Dirk. Short Dirk. There's a lot of elbows. There's a lot of contact.

There's a lot of fades. Oh, I got it. Marco Bellinelli? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was a European game.

It's very, it's pre-European. Yeah. Billy Hoyles. Yeah. Really like Guillermo Hoyle. And so he has this story where he was playing college ball and he had been paid to take, to throw a game by some gangsters. The Duty Brothers.

I can't imagine how much money he lost them that you just had two guys with the bad haircut trying to kill you for a whole movie. The Vig was running. Oh, I didn't realize the Vig was running. In every movie in which somebody owes a gangster money, the Vig is outrageous. It's like there's like this insane interest rate. I mean, I understand that's how the mafia works. but that's one of several plot lines that you're like, wow, this movie really turns into these other plot lines after a certain point.

The biggest we're going to get to, I'm sure, being Rosie Perez's Jeopardy run. Yeah, we'll get to that. We'll get to that later on. There's a couple things that happen in those first 25 minutes. One is that did we reach Pete Kadeem Hardison? Yeah, well, I think first season different world is pretty incredible. but this might be... That set it up.

That was like his Michael Jordan in the 80s run. That's him at UNC. This is the three-pee. Different world is Khadim Hardison than UNC. I think he laid the groundwork for at least three careers of three Wayne brothers.

I'm not sure which three. Also has my favorite Kadeem Hardison line in White Man can't jump is definitely when he... This is a larger point I need to make. I can't believe inflation now where like the amount of effort these guys are putting into like 60 bucks.

Oh, I know. It's mind-blowing. But it's like in the movie when he's just like, can I borrow $20 from Cadenian Hardison? He's like, I can't give them money? He's like, we'll go to Sizzler. It's like, go to Sizzler after. I remember thinking like, damn, Sizzler must be awesome. I know.

I was upset we didn't have a Sizzler nearest college. Yeah, that led to his greatest line, which was the We go in Sizzler. But yeah, and the Um-Mama jokes, a couple of them are funny. I played that scene for my son, who has been rattling off your omama jokes. that he's been finding on YouTube for three years and he was about the impressed by a couple. I feel like your mom, like, the, mama jokes are really,

were like such a line. It gets, it gets shown in this movie, but like, for something that was such a competitive and group act, like nothing pissed people off, like making fun of each other's mothers.

Right. So people would, like, really get pissed off, like really fast when that would happen. I remember a couple of fights. I went to a Quaker school and there were still fights in school over that. Well, you know,

the other thing with YouTube, I think, that whole scene just goes on YouTube and then people wouldn't have photos as inclined to watch the movie. But back then it was like the movie just moves in these different pieces. Rosie Perez comes in who she'd been in a Spikely movie. She was in do the right thing. And then I think she was in one other one. But another one that we hadn't totally discovered yet.

One of the most polarizing sports movie characters of all time. Rosie? Yeah. Yeah. I even rewatching. And I am not a big Rosie. Perez fan. By about the hour 15 mark, it's just tough.

The voice is tough and just, really what's wrong? It's just, I know you feel the complete opposite. It's either a generational difference or like, because I think it matters. Maybe you're just like Rosie Perez. I do like Rosie Perez. You do like her. Yes. She was great and do the right thing.

And she was amazing and white man can't jump. And I think it's like, when I saw this movie, I was just like on the edge of puberty. You know what I'm just getting. She sent you through. Well, I think so. She gave me the shove. She didn't. She gave me.

She was like that, she was like that was like, for me. When I saw this movie, I remember of being like, so this is what relationships are like. Like when you get a girlfriend, this is like Billy Hoyle and Gloria. You keep losing money and she keeps giving your chances. Screaming at each other and having sex. Yeah. And I was like, that's great. That sounds like that's what, so that's what adulthood is in.

Then it turned out it's just screaming at each other. And there's no sex. Yeah. So I really enjoy her in this movie. And then I think the cool thing about this. Wait, can you hold on the Rosie's sex? I think for a second. Sometimes we like to do fake basketball stats or fake stats for characters.

Woody Harrison, to me, this is like a Durant performance. This is like a Durant at Golden State performance. Very efficient. 13 for 18. 12 rebounds. No turnover. It's just phenomenal. Rosie is, it's like she's Jamal Crawford, but it's Jamal Crawford when Chris Paul

and J.J. Reddick are hurt? And it's like, I don't know, we've got to put Jamal Crawford 45 minutes. You get a lead pass alert. It's like Jamal Crawford is going for 50 points. He's taking 50 field goals. Rosie, I think in a movie like this is meant to come off the bench and carry a couple scenes, maybe hit one four point play, which would be either one of her nude scenes that she has in this. And then, but I just don't need her for 45 minutes.

I think it should have been more of like a male bonding buddy buddy. It's basically a buddy buddy, buddy cop movie with basketball, right? It depends on how you look at it because for me, this movie, is basically like the sting meets Bull Durham, you know, and I do think that it's obviously a great sports film, and it has just some of... But like in Bull Durham, Sarandon, like, to me... But Crash Davis disappears for like 30 minutes.

Sarananin's great in that movie, and she's the co-lead. I think the leads to me in this movie are Snipes and Woody. And Rosie Press should have come in a couple times, but not dominated. I guess I just appreciate the... It's unique in that, right? It's unique in that, like, the story goes on off the field kind of thing, And that's like in sports movies, I like when we disagree.

Yeah, no. And I just, I just think that this movie is a very, like, divisive last 40 minutes because it's pretty dark and also he doesn't get the girl. And there's no basketball.

And there's like, just like a real 25 minute long jeopardy scene. And a lot of unanswered questions. Like, so they play this one game. Oh, no. They played against this guy who stole, who basically snookered them out of money.

But then they go back and he's like, if you hit this half court shot, hook shot, um, I'm a guard. on the lot where Jeopardy is and Snipes is like, he'll get you in. Right.

I'm positive that's not how Jeopardy works to get on. I'm pretty sure. Although it was 92. Who knows? He's playing basketball and hustling for money all the time. He's got another Jeopardy contestant to get in here. So she gets in and she wins. But back then in Jeopardy, you just kept winning until you lost.

Yeah. So she's only on one show. But she has like a whole thing where she's like, I'm going to go on tournament champions. Like there's like an annual thing. I wanted, but this is the one time I wanted more Rosie Perez. Yeah. I want to know how many times did she win? We should have had a sequel that's just all about Gloria going through Jeopardy.

Gloria, did she win six times, the tournament of champions? And she was also going to become a daytime soap opera actress. That's what her dream is when she's out there. A lot of Alex Trebek. Probably a tiny bit too much. It's a strange. Oh, Rem's almost ready again in, I can see it. Oh, you ready?

Come on in. So you, you know, you asked a couple of minutes ago. We can keep talking about Rosie, but I remember the thing about this for me was that it's 92. and I'm in school in Philly and hip hop is just starting to like kind of really go mainstream. I'd probably been listening to it definitely since raising hell,

but run DMC. But it starts to get like bigger and bigger in 88 in my mind and it just becomes this music that I'm obsessed with. Beastie Boys are big, but that's actually a good point. So like native tongues, tribe called Quest, De La Sol is all happening,

Public Enemy is happening. De La Sol could have been in this movie. Yeah, I mean, it's a very native tongues movie to me, but one of the things that was so meaningful about this movie to me was that, like, obviously, like, there was this collision of black culture with, like, the white mainstream that was, like, at once lucrative for hip hop, but in the other hand, like, you know, had a lot of inherent issues. And this movie kind of confronted those head-on. Like, it's about race in a way that is actually pretty honest and confrontational and funny.

And it's, like, one of the last times where you almost, like, were, like, watching a movie about race and laughing. Right. You know, like... This is Rember Brown joining us. I agree. Good. It handles race without being heavy-handed about it and is why it's better than every movie

that is like trying to be about race in the past 20 years. That is like, it's embarrassing. Yeah, it's almost innocent when you go back and look at it and you're just like, these are just like all the problems in the world are going to get worked out on this Venice beach pickup game. Well, there is another part, and this was the air of Bird being the best player in basketball, but also being white, and the Celtics being the white team and the Lakers being the black team.

and all that stuff. And it trickled in a couple other movies, like the Spike Lee thing, but it also trickled in when you played. Like when I would play, if I ever played in a thing where, you know, we were the minority of the white guys,

they would call us like Liam Beer. They would call us like these derisive white guy player names. And so it was always this undercurrent, friendly though. It was just part of the basketball thing. And I love that white man can't jump, tapped into that. I don't think people do that anymore.

I actually really... If I play basketball, people like, hey, they ain't come on Liam Beer. A couple of things ruined my basketball. abilities, like, for one thing, not going left, being able to go left. Yeah, that was being short, slow, and having no vertical jump. But one of the things was people calling me Mullen when I was on the court and mistaking it that I thought, like, well, I guess I'm just a knockdown shooter. So I just shoot every time and people are just like, stop picking me.

They're disappointed. Yeah, they're like, I thought you were Mullen. And I'm like, I didn't say I was Mullen. You said I was Mullen. You had, you anointed me Mullen. Yeah. I never said I was Moll. Another 80s basketball thing in this movie is Raymond, who's the funniest character in the mood.

The Raymond scene is one of the, the Raymond scene is one of the moment. The Raymond scene is one of the great sports movies scenes. Raymond, going back to the car. Raymond gets his gun. He tries to commit a liquor store robbery. He gets, he has a knife. He gets confused. He's a straight razor.

I'm shooting everybody. He's straight razor. He's played by Marcus Johnson, who in the late 70s was Milwaukee's best player. Milwaukee almost made the finals with him as best player. Going back further was UCLA's best player, got traded to the Clippers. Like, he was a real guy. What was it like were the Clippers like back then when he was on the Clippers? Well, when he got hurt when he was on the Clippers.

But he was San Diego first. Cliffers Curse. I would compare him to like a better Paul Millsap. Oh, ooh. Yeah. Like he was. Can you imagine Paul Millsap? Like walking around with a straight racer?

Right. So Marcus Johnson was really good. And then to see him in this movie, it's like, it would be like if Bernard King had played Raymond. Same like he was like at that level. It's like, my God, that's Marcus Johnson. And he has this killer scene in this movie. Yeah. Yeah.

We're talking about your mama jokes earlier. And if you ever want to just like rattle someone in 27, Can you imagine? Just like hit him with like a mama joke. Like no one knows what to do with themselves. It's amazing. I've done it in the past two weeks. It would be like like of like one of those fights where like immediately the people who are fighting

start crying because like it's too emotional. Like you ever see like a bar fight and then you look at the dude who like either like the guy who started the bar fight is crying and you're like, well, are you okay man? Well my son still throws that mama jokes. Rem where do you stand in Rosie Perez? I love Rosie Perez. Okay.

In this movie, not too much. I thought her usage rate was too high. No, I mean, I, you know. Not you was perfectly. I don't need to tell the same puberty story twice. It's already happened once. Yeah, it's like, it's like, Rhodes-Barrez is like a formative. A formative person.

Like, like, thank you, white man can jump. Thank you, Spike Lee. Yeah. Thank you. I also think this movie has like, I don't know if you've already covered this, but I'm going to get this line wrong, but it's a, it's a Sydney Dean quote where he, I think he's like, um, Just because you put a cat in the oven, don't make it a biscuit. I love that. There's a lot of, like, very poetic trash talk where it's just like, you know, like, it's a hard, goddamn work.

Pick it's like this. Like, you imagine somebody trying to set something like that up. It's just like, yeah. Yeah, and just be like, dude, what are you doing? Like, you know, like. I don't mean to brag. Put out the greatest. And speaking to Sydney.

Yeah. It's unclear how he made money. because at one point he mentions or maybe the wife mentions or he mentions the tour he's got the roof thing the cable thing and the paint thing and he's got basketball. Yeah.

So apparently that's how he was making his money at the time. And basketball looks like a $4 an hour job. But how many times could you... When you're out there on the court, if you make 50 bucks in a game and are you splitting that among five guys or three guys? How many hustling opportunities do you have in LA basketball?

Well, this is that when I watch this game, I thought like my two thoughts coming out of the late 80s and the early 90s were that the two most attractive jobs in the world were pick up basketball hustler and minor league baseball catcher. Thank you, Ron Shelton. That's definitely why I just want to be a 40-year-old catcher

in Durham, North Carolina, and be like with Susan Saranded. That looks like an awesome life. So imagine how messed up my reality was because I saw this movie really early and then went straight into idolizing and one mixtape. So I literally was like, the only job I had,

I have ever wanted, if I want to be a successful man in this world, it's be a pickup basketball. I know. Like, the only difference is like, like, like, have you ever tried to hustle someone at pickup basketball?

tennis. You have to, you have, absolutely hustles. Like, I've, like, like,

Timberland and, and like, Timberlin's, and like, have you really? Yeah. Like, so you pretend to be bad and then play well?

10. Yeah, you miss a couple and then. I've hustle people in doubles. Well, why don't we pay for money and then you start out. I've like, I've like,

I've like, I've like, pick me as like a doubles partner. And I was just like... Would you start stretching? I was like, I like didn't have... Keep him the chump, man.

But not in basketball. Not in basketball. So, oh, go ahead. Sydney throws the game. Are we okay with that decision when he double... Billy Hoyle took $62 off him and he double crosses him for $1,700. It seemed excessive is my point.

I mean, I thought, but that's... I remember when that happens. My heart breaks. It hurts. Yeah. It really does hurt. It made me not like Sydney. also like disgrace the playground pyramid a little bit.

That is true. A little shoeless Joe Jacksonie. Yeah. But that's what cons are all about. You got to get to the long one. How did you feel about Woody Harrelson being able to guard players of all shapes and sizes, including some six eight guys? I think Woody Harrow, like, my favorite thing about the movie is that like just he's so much better than Sydney. Yeah.

Well, all right, let's let's just go there. So by all accounts, Wesley Snipes was a very good athlete who had no. I had to play basketball and they taught him. And if you watch carefully, and this is my number one flaw in the movie, Rosie Perez, getting too much usage being number two, he's not a basketball player. And the stuff that he's doing, like, first of all, here's how you know he's not a basketball player. Compare his game to a basketball player.

What player would it be? I just compared Woody Harrelson to 17 players. Video game, Stefan Marbury, I don't know. Baryshnika. I know. Like, what he's doing is so theatrical. It's beautiful. That's why those slow-mo shots work.

I think that's the only way they could shoot him is in slow motion. It's beautiful. But, like, they're not. He carries every single dribble. Like, not that you would call that. Marcus Johnson must have been like, oh, my God, guys, come on. Yeah. Come on.

Yeah, he carries more than anyway. Like, the exaggerated, like, top of the key, fake bounce pass. Like, they're beautiful. Or the no-look throw over the head. Woody looks like. Yeah, that sounds great. But Woody at that little Marco Bellanelli, a little Zach Levine for Woody,

somewhere in middle of there. Definitely a European game. The other side of it is that Wesley Snipes looks like the best basketball player I've ever seen. Look the way he cares. The double tank top

is like a look I'm still trying to. Woody's fashion has gone on to influence generations of people to the extent that if you walk out to Silver Lake Los Angeles right now, half of the population dresses like Billy Hoyle. But Wesley Snipes is so iconic and you not every, no one can really pull off biker shorts, short shorts, the hat, two tank tops and like a Lance Armstrong cyclist hat.

Yeah. Flipped up. He also pulled off Always Bet on Black as the Passenger 57 tagline, which I really don't think more than two other actors could have pulled off from a straight face. And I think maybe kept it for Blade also. I would play. So you compare it to Eric Bledsoe? if Eric Blitzow just lost his mind

and started carrying and doing no look passes but at the same kind of body. Yeah, it was shot in slow motion and everybody else was in, like, it was like a Beastie Boys video where they like shot it in two different speeds. But also like dressed like a member of Jodice. Yeah.

Like, it is like one of the most iconic looks. Could you go out dress like Wesley Snipes in that movie, not you, but just any human being? Could you go out in public and fit in without people staring at you twice? I feel like yes. Yeah, you could.

I could not. But yes, you. No, not you. Yeah. I think you'd have to have to be. I've heard a story that when Ray Lewis used to go out to, like, clubs in Atlanta, sometimes he would just wear, like, under armor, like, shorts and, like, a tank time. And, like, if they ever gave him trouble, he would just give them a look, like, you know, I'm like, you know.

I'm right. Lewis. And they let him in. Word on the street is that Colin Orkitt, the head of video for The Ringer, dressed up as Billy Hoyle two Halloween. ago. That's pretty amazing. Are you having any documentation of this? All it's calling we have to do is wear a pair of shorts and an orange sweatshirt.

You know, like, I want that parental advisory t-shirt that he has. Here's the thing I wanted to talk about, though, Bill, is the scene, the tournament. I wanted to talk about the whole tournament sequence, but specifically their arrival and the scene that basically where he's like, are you, like, gets, he tries to get Sydney mad, where Billy Hoyle tries to get Sydney mad. Why does he do that? Did we ever figure it out? Yeah, he's basically, like, you need to get locked in.

you play better when you're angry and he's like you know the greats always always play better than you're angry and that's when he gets into like I can hear Jimmy and he starts yelling at at Sydney and like he's yelling at Duy Martin and his co-co like his teammate but then Sydney's just like you got to stop

you're going to get them angry and he's like no I'm going to get you angry because you play better when you're angry and they start doing that and that was like so we were talking before about YouTube and putting the yo mama jokes up on there that was back like when you could tell the power of a scene and like how funny or amazing it was,

was by how often you and your friends would basically just like reenact it in high school hallways. You're just like, we got to just basically just do an improv impromptu version of this white man can't jump scene. And we would do that for like all the movie scenes that we really loved, you know? Yeah.

And that was like the only other one that got as much burn as that, I can't even think like we're like Beverly Hills Cop or 48 hour scenes that were just so mind-lowingly funny that you could, like, you had, you only do them justice by like basically reenacting them. My only, my only example is Chappelle. Like literally like, like, you had to watch Chappelle because the next day, like, you'd have to

know how to do an entire role. We would do that too with the living color too. Yeah. Like, we were coming on Monday. I would say S&L had moments like that. Yeah. But like from a movie, yeah. Like, it's hard to think of like, okay, like we need four people to act out this entire

scene. Yeah. And you just would like just do screaming and pick up games every time they would hit a shot from 1992, 93, I can hear Jimmy. I can hear Jimmy. It's just like I still in my mind can hear that. You know what I would have loved? more of that tournament unless Rosie Perez.

Tournament goes by too fast. All of a sudden we're in the finals against Dwayne Martin, who then runs it back two years later and above the rim. Dwayne Martin, do a double duty in two of the basketball. Has Dwayne Martin become an agent? Is that a thing? He's like an agent now?

Am I making that up? He might be. He's Will Smith's best friend. Is he still? That kind of became he became Wilson's best friend. Let's just move on. I will say, I heard you know, I heard y'all talking about Khadim.

Uh, Khadim. Yeah. What's Khadim up to? I don't know. I think he, I saw him pop up on that show Real House Husbands of Hollywood. Really? Kevin Hart. Really?

Yeah. I might have seen 12 of those. I will say. I'm just going to do a Khadim, IMD one. Um. I think the Wayne's brothers took his corner. Wesley Snipes as Sidney Dean and Kadeem as Dwayne, like, Dwayne. Like, those are two of the most, like, iconic, like, black actor characters.

characters, like, looks of all time. Like, the flip glasses. Do he just get enough credit? Like, like, he's a, like, I mean, like, those two, like, that movie and that show. Like, that's how I knew I didn't. He's kind of legendary. That's how I knew I didn't have enough black people in my life growing up because when they, no, when they spun it off, I liked it.

And it was like, oh, nobody's watching that. And meanwhile, it's like this iconic show. Also, it's just not with the people that I was around, unfortunately. It was like 22 million people watching it. Yeah. There's so many people. It would be the number one show by 10 million people now. More people watched one episode of a different world and like ever watched all of girls put together at any time.

And it's just like, yeah, nobody watched a different world. What a cult hit. A sophisticated take to always have is to like a different world more than Cosby show. It's a good take. It's a nice thing. It's a good take to have. But even before all the stuff. So I have a couple important questions.

Yeah. Billy Hoyle, gamblers anonymous probably wouldn't have been a bad idea for him. about this movie that's tough. Like, I think especially when you're young is understanding this self-destructive streak he has. Yeah, but I see, I don't like that. I like when movies promote gambling, like in Hardball with Keanu Reeves when the Big Bet saves everything. I'd rather have gambling being positive. I don't like when people lose stuff when they gamble.

Have to fake their deaths. What's the McConaughey? Two for the money. Two for the guy gets the lines. We need more positive gimmick story. So he definitely was a Hall of Fame Bad Gammer, but is Rosie Perez an alcoholic in this movie? Who drinks wine from the bottle? I thought it was vodka.

But then she has a bottle of wine. That's fine. No, that's fine. Okay. They're living in a hotel and bed. She's sneaking drinks for herself, though. What are they trying to do with that?

I mean, I think living with Billy Hoyle is probably stressful. Stressful studying all those almanacs for Jeopardy, too, man. That's true. Yeah. And when they moved to L.A., couldn't, wouldn't that have been enough to get away from the bad guys in Louisiana?

The Stucci brothers are just going to find her? I don't know. This is also like pre-GPS, free, like, looking people up on the internet. It's like, Rosie Perez is on Twitter like, I'm just roller skating through Venice, studying for Jeopardy, dropping Geo tagging. So what are they just got to every pickups? I guess it must have just like gotten word that that's where they had run to.

It felt kind of cartoonish. It's just like in a cartoon like the bad guys just are always chasing after you forever. But that scene though at the end where she's just like if you gamble away my money, that's it. And he's just like it's the last time and he thinks she's going to still be there. And she isn't. It's like that was a very adult thing to watch in 1992 for me. I was like, wait, that happens? Skated away.

Yeah. Skated away. White men can't jump. Best title ever for a sports movie? Unconditionally. It's incredible. I was trying to think of a better one and it's always like Rocky. Slapshot, Major League, the natural, great movies.

Yeah. Eight Men Can't Jump is an amazing title. It's arguably one of the best movie titles ever. They don't make movies. Like they talk about that where they made that and they were like, are people going to feel like this is too edgy. Ron Shelton talks about this where it's like the film studios weren't as conservative because they weren't as backed by like all these major financial conglomerates or like, you know,

investment funds or whatever. So they could kind of take chances. And that's why they went with, you know, Wesley Snipes instead of Denzel Washington and Rosie Perez instead of Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter as Gloria. I mean, I know it would have been a different character. It would have been amazing of Holly Hunter to just play the same character.

Or played the character from the piano. Yeah. But. Maybe that can still happen. like a pretty edgy, you know, cast and like just the fact that they called the movie, white man can't jump in 1992 was like, everybody in my new was just like snapped to attention when we heard that. It would be called something so corny now.

It would be called like rules of the game. Basketballs like basketballs of beach. Yeah. Right. Well, you know, the other thing that happened was all the foreigners that came into the NBA, more white guys from just basically everywhere, Europe, Russia, or whatever. but like from 80 to 92, the white versus black NBA conversation

was always a conversation. You know, a little like what we talked about earlier. And it does feel like that was an edgier title. Then now it would be like, white man can't jump. We'd be like, what are you talking about?

Like, and you could just list all these different people. What are you talking about? You never seen Mario Hizone. Are you right? You know, what have they made a football movie called, uh,

black man can't pass? That would be your 2017, precious take of the person. about black quarterbacks. Is this a black guy in Texas just being like, shows up in a high school football game? He's like, I think people.

Would that be a hot take in 2017 in this movie came out that white man can't champ is not a PC title? It's like we're, you wouldn't say that about that. Like, I feel like somebody would write that piece. I just, and we would mock it. I think,

you know what the problem is is that white people got too much respect in basketball now. I completely agree. That was my point with all the Europeans and the foreigners. Back then it was like Larry Bird and nobody else had respect. Maybe a little John Stock that Mark Price. Mark Price could shoot. And you know I bet it's the most pissed about that why people got so much respect? Larry Bird.

Definitely. Why do you think? Like, God damn. Like drinking a case of cores right now. Just be like, you know what I had to do in the 80s to get this thing? He was, it was basically just him. So, Wes, Woody Dunks, they admit it was a nine and a half foot rim. Yeah.

So my favorite part of Goliathas's oral history is the fact that it sounds Sounds like that set was large scale side bets and prop bets on people playing horse with them fitting some shooting of a movie inside, like all out gambling addictions. Everything I've ever read about Woody Harrison suggests that he's one of the most fun people to have in your life. And if you're on a movie set with him, it's just constant. And even on chairs, they were like, those guys were just drinking all the time and betting. I'm pretty sure just in like the majesty of Woody Harrison, there's a. David Blaine special where he's like doing a trick on Kanye

and they pan the camera over it and Woody Harrelson's just there also. I'm like, I just want to know more. I always want to know. Woody Harrelson also just like, every time Woody Harrelson is put into something, no one's ever just like, are we sure we need to? Like when they cast Woody Harrelson

in the Han Solo movie to be Han Solo's mentor, 99.9% approval rating. Nobody was like, are we sure Woody Harrelson could be Han Solo's mentor? It's like, no, that makes complete sense. 100%. So here's what this led for. For Woody.

Wayman can't jump, indecent proposal. I'll do anything. I don't remember that one. Cowboy Wake, natural born killers. Money train. It's a trilogy for Snipes and Harrison

if you go back to Wildcats. That's in a box set at Sam. Are you a kid fan fan? Yes. Kingpin. People versus Larry Flint. All of a sudden he's a major movie actor. I thought half of those movies were McConaughey.

I always get them confused. I still get them confused. That's the thing. If there's no McConaughey, it's like what our friend Wesley Morris always used to call the market correction. Yeah.

McConae took some Woody roles. Yeah. There's no question. But did they, did they? Woody should have been in dazed and confused. But did they continue to let themselves exist? But here's the genius of Woody Harrelson is that. They think they needed each other.

Yeah. Woody Harrelson like just coasts. Like, Woody Harrelson originally read for McConaughey's role in True Detective. And then they were like, well, we're going to get McConaughey. Woody was like, he should play, he should play Russ Cole. And I should play the other guy. Like, it was like, he always knows exactly the level he needs to be at, which is why he He's always successful.

He never, like, out shoots. You know what you mean? Like, he always knows his range. He's like, I don't want to be catniss. I just want to be, I want to be the old drunk dude. But that guy got, like, so paid. And everybody who worked on Hunger Games was like, that dude is, like, my favorite person I've ever worked with.

And he wore a terrible wig and is like, go get him. For five movies, he's like, you go out there, you do your thing. Some really good no country for old men, Woody Harrelson. Oh, my God. Like 65 seconds on screen. He's incredible. So here's Snipes. Snipes goes, Major League.

This is going to get dark. Mo Better Blues. New Jack City. Jungle fever. Water dance. White men can't jump. He's really good. Water dance.

Water dance a good movie in Passenger 57. So this is, we were talking about this at lunch. Did you say murder at 1600? That was after. No, because we were talking about the black actor championship belt, which Eddie had from 82 to 89, basically, even if you count Harlem nights, which some people like, at the, trust me, at the time, nobody liked. I know I think it's.

Snipes basically from 89 on. When's Boomerang? Boomerang was 92, I think. 92, 93. But Snipes grabs the belt. And Snipes becomes, and then all of a sudden, Denzel comes in,

and we were talking about it. We looked up Denzel's IMDB. It's like, once Malcolm X happens in 92, it's just like. But then in 93, he just goes, Philadelphia Pelican brief.

Yeah. And it's over. Yeah. And then it stops. Get off me. I'm on jet every week. And Snipes, and Snipes for whatever reason, I mean, obviously he had some personal issues, but by the late 90s was out. Yeah.

It was a little bit like what happened when it was like Keaton versus Hanks for a while. And then Michael Keaton just was out after Batman. Went to prison for. He went to prison for taxivage. But that was much later. I think the thing about Snipes is that like he, like, he had like a lane at being like a sexy man in his 20s, but like didn't have that length. in his 30s the way Denzel he also chose

very specifically to do but yeah but to do action movies I mean Denzel never went full action Wesley Slams when he did Blade was like

this is great I like you basically like I don't know like why like he chose to do this but like that's an incredibly lucrative choice to make if you can become an action star for 15 years

like hundreds of like so many people go see those movies whereas like you know I don't know like Denzel's never done a summer blockbuster by the way it's my favorite thing about him

never done one But he's made plenty of, like, thrillers. Oh, yeah. If we did. Bone collector. Ram owns the Bone Collector corner. It's my own corner. Anytime bone collector comes up, he wants, he wants in.

Ricochet. Ricochet. I liked ricochet. Yeah. That's my ideal, Denzel mustache from Ricochet. I think Snipes should have had a better post-94 career. Yes. Like, I wish, like, he had.

I think Wesys Snipes would agree. You know what it would help? Like, just for two years, just join the cast of ER after Clefell. Clooney leaves. Like, make a big market TV move for two years. That didn't work from a Khyr-Fiper, really. Take all those Morris Chestnut early roles. Oh, yeah.

Well, that's the thing. He was too old to be in that kind of Omar Reps, Morris Chestnut. Tay Diggs. He missed the wood. He missed it. He missed the wood era. That would have prolonged him for, like, he never did, like, the high school reunion movie or, like, he just immediately went weird and side-fying.

He made, like, a pass at it, like, doing prestigious, prestigious stuff in Brooklyn's finest, which is sort of like the not, not. It's like Ethan Hawk and Don Cheadle, Wesley Snipes, and Richard Gear. You're so right, though. He should have done, like, he should have just been one of those dudes that was on, like, CSI for 10 years. That's what I mean. But that's how it's so fucking likable.

Get the black actor championship belt is not going to be. Well, it was over. Because then Will Smith and Denzel. That was just talking about for the good of the game. He should have been on. I'm just saying to stay in the game. Yeah. He could have done CSI.

He could have done ER season four to season six. There's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of good. I really like Wesley Snipes. I'm mad that he decided to just disappear from my life as, you know. Can I, I don't even know if I believe what I'm about to say. Yeah. But for a non, like, if you take out all the roles Dintel had of just him portraying other, like, famous black people.

Yeah. I don't know if he has, like, as iconic of a character as, as Nino Brown. You don't believe this. Wow. That's completely untrue. I love Nino Brown as, like, a character. But come on. one man.

But like, no, no, I mean, just like, if you take away Malcolm X, I'm taking, Steve Biko. All right, I'm going on the IMDBA. Like, I don't know. I don't know if I believe it. But, like, Ni-No, like, Nina Brown is like, like, a culturally, like, people- It's the character he wanted from American gangster and it didn't happen. Yes.

I guess I see what you're saying. I'm going to take Nino Brown and I'm going to, everyone's like, why don't you play somebody like Nino-Brand? It's like, I'm going to do American gangster. Like, Denzel has, like, 12 better roles. Like, but Dinsel also had that run of being, like, a great action. in a bad movie. Yes.

He still does. He still does. That is my favorite Denzo. Man on fire, Denzo. Jayshabu Denzo. What's the one with Eva Mendez and Sana Latham? Oh, the one that's set in Miami? I love that one.

Yeah. I'm going on as I have to be now. They were like eight in a row. It was incredible. Is this like you guys' third podcast about Denzel watching today? Out of time. Out of time. Out of time.

Well, you have training day, Denzo, and remember the Titans, Denzo. I disagree. I think he's been on the Nino Brown. Maybe. That's what I'm saying. You wouldn't put Man on Fire that that character? No, because what's that character's name? Creasy.

I don't remember that. You just see Man on Fire like 15 times. Like, I, wow. I love Man O'Rour. I think Chris and Ty. Chris Ryan and I are starting a kidnapped hostage podcast. It's only two movies, but we're just proof of life and Man on Fire all over again. But we're going to do 150 episodes about it.

The first 63 are just about David Caruso in proof of life. Oh, Crimson Tide. Man, Denzel's been a lot of good movies. Crimson Tide is incredible. Courage under fire is incredible. The siege is incredible. Denzel is amazing in that movie. No, I'm not saying that Denzel's not incredible.

I'm just saying. No, I know what you're saying. Like, Nino Brown is amazing. That's like an incredibly like. But if, like, Nina Brown might outlive. How much is. But to me, here's my New Jack City power rankings. Judd Nelson.

Judd Nelson was so iconic in New Jack City. And I'm sorry, I know this is like ridiculous. But it's not, and it's not fair that a white man wins New Jack City. But Judd Nelson completely wins. This is the worst take you've ever had. I thought that Judd Nelson, Judd Nelson had the comeback so far in front of Robert Downey Jr. I'm going back to New York right now. Oh my God.

Chris Rock three? Judd Nelson. Judd one. Bill Cobb. Okay. That's fine. Chris Rock. Ice tea.

Ice tea. Ben Wesley. Wesley Snipes is fourth. Well, my God. It's funny. Like, he wasn't in the conversation for a few years. Wesley Snipes. Yes.

And now it's like he's like, he's. Just kind of belong. Like Danny Iello, one do the right thing. Well, now it's like, Wes McSeptia just kind of belongs to the 90s, which is like a weird legacy for him. He's very active on Twitter, though. Yeah.

No, I know he's still going now, but like his body of work feels very 90s to me. Also, for what? New Jersey City feels 90s. For what is worth, like, like, Ice T's just been steadily acting for 20 plus years. Like, like, SVU is still like in these streets. Yeah.

And he's in every episode. And I mean, it's like, it's amazing. Yeah, I know. We were talking about Keenan, like earlier.

It's like, like, like he's got to like, sticking around for 20 years is like, there's a value to. You should get, that should get you in some Hall of Fame, some,

like something. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Do you think that Ron Shelton should have just kept making movies like this? I think it's hard. Yeah. I think it's.

I love the origin story. I don't know like where you go next, right? He used to just. play to play to, bone it didn't work. Yeah. And he tried Cobb didn't work.

But tin cup. Tinkup to me worked. Yeah. So he's got basically, he's got three that are perfect. What else can't white men do? Governance. Yeah. White men can't lead.

Like, I feel like he could have just kept with that thing. That should have been like a website or something. Like, I don't know. Like, I feel like he had a good formula. So it made 75 million bucks, which is a lot. A ton of time. Yeah. And now they're talking about remaking it.

Uh-huh. And I watch this under the lens of, should this movie be remade, Blake Griffin is involved, Kenya Barris is involved. That's just Michael B. Jordan's role, right? I mean... That's right. That's his role. So this is...

He's like built like him. So I hate all remakes and instinctively I don't want them to happen. Then I watch this movie. It feels very 90s to me. The pop culture references are like Brady Bunch, Opie, Gomer Pile, Godfather, Jeopardy, all stuff that belongs to another. Gregory, yeah. It's all stuff that belongs to another era.

And then the movie itself, like, I could have used about 25% more basketball. Maybe there is a way to remake this and make it more modern. So you know what they probably have. I'm back in on the remake. You know what they have to do to kind of like keep? Here's the thing. This movie comes out at not a time of innocence by any stretch of the imagination, but prior to the L.A. riots, right?

So, like, there's like a different, I think there's a different mainstream pop cultural conversation about race relations, like right before this movie comes out. Yes. until like after this movie comes out. Yep. So they have to find something that is like the Woody going into Englewood version of this movie. And I don't know what that is. TFA.

Or it's like a black guy going into like rural America and playing basketball in like, you know, Illinois or Indiana. Do you know what I mean? You have to like switch the settings up. What if it's Billy Hoyle Jr.? That's what they'll probably do. Star by. Yeah, see, that's going to suck. And it's Miles Teller.

Well. Well. Oh, right. Sorry, I'm back in. So if you told me right now, Kenyon Barris writing the remake and modernizing it and MBJ is the Wesley Snipes type of character, I think I'm in and I'm anti-remake.

Completely in. Like, I'm not going to watch that movie. You know that they have to go, Wesley and Woody in there somewhere. Like, they're playing in a seniors tournament or something like that. They teach these guys that. They're not going to make it like a straight reboot. They'll have like characters from the old movie. We all agree that even though it's 25 years and even though this movie still holds up

and it's super watchable, it is dated. And there is a way to modernize it and make it make a new version of it that's fun. Like I didn't like the idea for Creed. I just don't even know like how do you hustle people online like you con them and and docks them and fish their emails and something. How would you even con somebody in real life now? They wouldn't be like, hold up. Let me Google you.

Oh wait, look. There's this video of you dunk. on someone I know that you're good at basketball. You know what you mean? I just don't even know how like everybody is on tape. Like you paid for your followers. Yeah, I don't know. Can I throw this at you?

Yeah. Ryan Coogler directing. I mean, MBJ as the lead. I mean, that's the movie that just, it gets, it's a tiny bit darker,

but and better filmed and less like comedy kind of with the soundtrack. Yeah, it's dueling guitar. It's kind of, It's kind of does this thing to it. And I think that's a really interesting movie. Yeah.

I don't think it'll happen. And it's that dude has 40. Black Panther is actually about white man can't. It's the sequel. I watched, I watched Creed again. Yeah. It's good.

And we need to do a podcast about it soon. Okay. I'm ready. I've seen it five times, though. It's good. Yeah. It's really good. And I'm ready to revisit, though,

whether Moneyball was the best sports movie of this decade's in the combo. Yeah, I think Creed's in the combo. He's great and it. Cougler's, some of the scenes are just fantastic. The three minute long same shot boxing scene. Yeah. It's just incredible.

It's so good. Jordan's already swole. He's diesel. They got to get all these rules out of him while he's still swole. I think Teller might still be swole from bleed for this. Oh, man. I mean, I mean, fix Teller. Could Teller could Teller play hoops? I don't know.

Could he be Billy Hoyle Jr? Willie Hoyle. Elgort. Elgore. Elgur can dunk. Yeah, Elgur can play. I saw him miss eight dunks once, but I saw him make the nine. Yeah, because I made fun of him on Greenland, and he'd like tweeted at me like, come to Brooklyn

and I'll dunk on you. And he put a video of himself dunking there. Well, here's the other reason why this movie would work out of many reasons. You know they load it with NBA cameos, right? Yeah. You'd have seven, like Westbrook's people would be like, Russ, I think this would help with your brand, like if you're in this movie and one of the pickup guys. And it will be, I would say, 80% NBA guys would be the guys that they put up.

What if the first scene is that like the celebrity game? And. Oh, now we're right at the movie for Kenya Barris. Sorry. Yeah, that's free. Never mind. Kenya, give us a consulting thing. Yeah. Do you think that Mattias from the Clippers will be at it?

Oh, the Coatman manager? Yeah. Come on. I'm going to imitate Robert. That's rude. That's rude. That's rude. The Blake's so mad at me that I made it at a quick.

equipment manager tweet joke. That's fine. He's still holding against me. All right. So, white man can't jump. Sports movie not a rom-com. Yeah. Yeah.

Last 40 minutes are a rom-com. I just hate to break it. It's not that comic. There's enough basketball in there. It's like a rom-s-sad. It's like a rom-sad. It's like Kramer versus Kramer at the end of it. It is.

It's like ordinary people. He was like, what is happening? Every's lives are falling apart. Come back. Sure. I think we hit everything, right? Yeah. All right, good.

Wet me and ketchup, remember Brown? Thank you. Thanks to Jim Cunningham for producing it. Jim! Cannot lose. That's not!