The Rewatchables - 'You’ve Got Mail' With Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins

Episode Date: August 31, 2017

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins deep dive into the 1998 romantic comedy ‘You’ve Got Mail,’ starring Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan. They discuss Tom Hank’s epic acting run in the '90s, the hallmarks of a Nora Ephron movie, the formula for a successful romantic comedy, how this movie predicts the future and hints at modern catfishing, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Believe it or not, Superbad just turned 10 years old. For the anniversary, The Ringer talked to everyone involved, from Seth Rogen to Jonah Hill, Judd Apatow, and we got all the details on the making of the seminal teen comedy. Head to The Ringer.com now to read about Cassie McLevin, Michael Sarah pounding orange-flavored vodka, and the birth of the acronym DTF. Welcome to the rewatchables.

I'm not Bill Simmons. I'm Juliet Littman. I'm the managing editor at The Ringer, the co-host of the Jam Session podcast. And I'm joined today by Amanda Dobbins, the other co-host of Jam Session. jam session crossover. It's a jam session rewatchables crossover event. New feed. Same

people. I'm glad you mentioned a crossover because I loved a crossover event. I feel it should happen more often and they're very 90s to me and we are here today to discuss the 1998 classic film. You love it. I love it. So many do. You've got mail.

I turn on my computer. I go online. Welcome. Welcome. And my breath catches in my chest until I hear three little words. You've got mail. What is going on with you? Is it infidelity if you're involved with someone on email?

This woman is the most adorable creature I've ever been in contact with. Have you had sex? Of course not. I don't even know it. No, I mean cyber sex. No? Well, don't do it. As a minute you do, they lose all respect for you. Joe Fox, I'm in the book business.

I'm in the book business. What should I have said? Who'd be a man who has made my professional life in misery? Tell me something, really. How do you sleep at night? She's beautiful. What? She's a pill. I'm going to say hello, I'm going to have a cup of coffee, and then I'm going to split. That's what I'm going to do.

Why am I even doing this? Why am I compelled to even meet her? Relax. Just taking it to the next lip. And I'm not going to stay that long anyway. I'm so ready. I have been ready for about 10 years. So why don't you explain very briefly your attachment to the film you've got Malin?

Only as far as you're comfortable. Sure. Because it runs deep. It does. Sure. I'm a wild insomniac. I have been basically since college on and off, but like just generally. a really erratic sleeper in like a weird way. And I like to fall asleep to movies as so many do.

I was just explaining to Zach Mack that in college I had a portable DVD player that I brought into my bed. Wow. Extremely. Is that even 90s or is that early 2000s? Early 2000s. And then I graduated to a laptop and then an iPad and now my iPhone and I just watch the same things over and over again to get me into the sleep state of mind.

And I have been watching, you've got mail to help me fall asleep for like the last six to seven years. Sure. So I think I have seen it in its entirety a minimum of 150 times and I've listened to pieces of it. Like, I don't know. I can't count. Like just so much. I know I'm insane. I'm a crazy person.

Listen, I don't want to put terms on it. I just want to say that that is an astonishing amount of times and I feel like you are the true you've got male expert. Thank you. I have not seen it quite as many times. I have, however, seen it a lot. I think that it must have been on cable rotation when I graduated college in 2006. I graduated in 2006. Yeah. So it was heavy on the E network for a while. It also was on TNT. It's a big syndication movie. And I moved, so you grew up in New York. And you grew up on the Upper West Side where this film takes place.

Yes. And I don't want to insert words in your mouth, but you have said it is one of the great Upper West Side. Yeah. I would say it's a top three. Annie Hall is obviously in the conversation. A really unpopular opinion, but Keeping the Faith, Edward Norton's directorial debut. That's the other ultimate Upper West Side movie. I'm sorry, but it is. It's really overlooked, but true.

Make a 10-15-second case for keeping the faith before we go back to that. That's astonishing. I can't let that drop. I'm not saying it's a good movie, but it's just, first of all, I do enjoy it. It was like, Jedna Elfman was stepping outside of the Dharma framework. And it just is like, let's go running in Central Park. Now we're playing basketball and Riverside Park. And it's just, it's on, it's all over the Upper West Side. It's like, it's

entirely between 96th Street and 70 Second Street, except when they go to her office. And it's just, yeah, if you grew up on the Upper West Side in the 90s, then it's like extremely familiar to you. So you've got Mal as a similar film. Yeah. It takes place. It was, it came out in 1998. Yes. Which is around then. And we just need to dive into what was going on for Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks in 1998 because it's kind of astonishing on both sides. So this is Tom Hanks's first release after a small movie you may have heard of called Saving Private Ryan. And this is towards the end of, but not the, not the actual end of, one of maybe the

greatest runs in film history. From him. From Tom Hanks in the 90s. It's pretty remarkable. Let's just go over, starting with, I think, 1992. We've got a league of their own. then the sleepless in Seattle comes out much more on that in a minute I think it's also worth just noting Joe in the volcano since that's his first Meg Ryan

Roncom in 1990. Yeah. Then Bonfire of the Vanities, which was a flop. Radio Flyer, meh. League of their own, sleepless in Seattle, Philadelphia. Philadelphia and Sleepless are both in 1993. So that's like a big year for him. But he's not done.

1994. We've got Forrest Gump. 1995. Top five Tom Hanks for me, Apollo 13. And then Toy Story, which is like he's not in it, but he's the voice of Woody. And then please do not forget that thing you do. I could never forget that movie. Which will come back to another time, his directorial debut.

Playtown Baby. Then he takes two years off from acting. And he's filming Sarah Prime Ryan. And then you've got Mel comes out. So, and then he just finishes off the decade with Toy Story 2, Green Mile, and then Bill Simmons is one of his faves in 2000 castaway. So that's an incredible run. Just simply unheard of.

It was literally record setting with Philadelphia and then Forrest Gump and back-to-back years. Apollo 13 is an iconic movie. More than that from the ringer soon. Can't wait. I almost went to space camp because of that movie, just throwing that in. Because you saw it on Nickelodeon. Sure. And then he launches, he helps launch now an iconic franchise in Toy Story.

Absolutely. And Toy Story, Disney's still making bank off of. Many people are like Toy Story 3 is the best movie of X year when it came out in what? 2009, I think, 10. And that's like just unbelievable. So we're getting peak Tom Cruise when he shows up as Joe Fox, F-O-X. He's at the top of his game. Absolutely.

It's almost like how do they get him to do it? I have questions. Right. And so that's interesting because Meg Ryan at this point is also very much kind of at the peak of her career. And it's also the second Nora Ephron movie that they do in this decade. And most people tend to regard you've got male as the lesser of the two when compared with sleepless in Seattle. Yes. And I think that you and I both agree that technically and on a purely objective level, Sleepless in Seattle is perhaps the better film.

Sure. It's tighter. Sure. It's a little shorter. It's sort of very clearly an homage to something. It plays off of an affair to remember. It is really stylized. It's kind of like the introduction of the Harry Connick Jr. sound as a soundtrack.

And it's just like a kind of, it's more of a gimmy than you've got mail, which kind of requires a few indulgences. Like, first of all, AOL in 1998 is like not that big of a thing. In fact, Meg Ryan didn't have a computer until she was on this movie and she got one from the company that produced it. Yes. So it's interesting, right? because it's two movie stars kind of at their peak or two movie stars with a lot of power and decision-making ability at a time

when movie stars had a lot of power and decision-making ability. And it is, they decided to just do a sequel for fun. And there is something about it. So what I was going to say is that sleepless in Seattle is the quote, better movie. Sure. You and I both enjoy You've Got Mail a lot more.

Absolutely. We have watched it many more times. And part of what I think makes You've Got Mail so wait for it, rewatch it, rewatch. is this idea that it really is these two people who came together to do another movie with Nora Ephron because they could and because they wanted to. Because there's no other reason for Tom Hanks or Meg Ryan to make this movie other than that it interested them. And there is that sense of everybody wants to be there. It's very comforting.

Sequels, I think, I mean, sequels can always go wrong. And this is obviously, it's not a sequel. It's a separate movie. Virtual successor. But there's this idea of getting the gang back together again that, can actually be very comforting and enjoyable to watch. Sure. And I think that's a lot of what I respond to.

And it's in part because everyone's been here before. Yeah. They've already done this. And they're doing it because they want to. Let's go back to sleepless for one second. It's really important. When Meg Ryan first started working again with Nora Ephron after when Harry met Sally, she really wanted her husband at the time, Dennis Quaid, to play Sam Baldwin.

And Nora Ephron was against it. but the studio also was against it, but they wanted Tom Hanks. And he apparently, Tom Hanks, like, so there's a book coming out actually today. Today is Tuesday, August 29th called I'll Have What She's Having, which is about Nora Fron and her effect on the movie world. And in that book, an excerpt of which I read in The Daily News a couple weeks ago, it says Tom Hanks was like really an asshole at the beginning on the set of, you got, of Sleepers in Seattle. He thought that his son, his movie son, Jonah, got better lines than him. And so he complained. and he was like apparently really difficult in the fact that they all got together or liked each other by the end of the movie was actually kind of lucky because it wasn't it didn't start off so well that makes me so sad well he he acknowledges it I mean 1993 Tom Hanks he's really feeling himself it's true he's still kind of easing it and he's got to make a name for himself yeah yeah I think speaking of Nora Ephron the Nora Ephron aspect of this movie is what speaks to both of us I think she was

A very important writer. I like to play Are You a Joan Diddien or are you a Nora Ephron in terms of writing style and how you approach the world? And I consider I lean more towards the Nora Ephron's of the world. But witty and smart and every film that she's made with the exception of Bewitched. Bewitched was not the best. That was not a peak. I guess we'll come back to this. But the Nora Ephron aspect of this, it's such a well-written movie.

Yeah. She co-wrote with her sister Delia. Yeah. And it's in the zingers and the one-liners and kind of the observations. and the Efron-esque jokes that they manage to fold into the classic rom-com structure. Yeah. That's the other thing. This is, it's a classic rom-com.

It's more classic than sleepless in Seattle because you actually, they start together and you see them interact. And that's what I'm here for. It's interesting you say that because I think in some ways it's actually missing some of the essential elements. Like, to me, like the defining rom-com moment and also teed soap operas is like the kind of like the declaration and the sort of, speech. And the speeches in this movie don't come until the very end, basically. And when Tom Hanks is like, before they're having a date at the end, Tom Hanks like, you know, makes it move on her. And she's like, I need to find out about this other guy. And then she finds out at him. And she's like, I wanted it to be you. And there aren't really any like big declarations of love for a while.

Really until the very end. And I, and that is like to me a crucial deviation from the formula. Yeah. I guess that's true. It's just the general timing. of two people don't like each other and you know that they're going to end up together from the very first scene. I think honestly from the, yeah, from the, as soon as they creep to the computer, you've got mail, you know that the people will end up together and the whole movie is about the obstacles put in front of those people and then at the very end, ta-da, they're together. Do they make movies anymore where the ending is completely certain?

Like, once the last time that happened? I can't think of it. Game of Thrones? Sorry. That's a TV show man. That's true. I don't know if you've heard TV as movies now. They certainly don't make these types of rom-coms anymore. I think that's another reason that you and I are so...

This was a great time. The late 90s, early 2000, is kind of the last gasp of the rom-com. And certainly the last gasp of the modern rom-com, which started with when Harry Metz Alley. Yeah. And for a number of reasons, including they just don't spend money on mid-budget movies for adults anymore. that they don't make these traditional rom-coms. They make a lot of, quote, new, edgy rom-coms, which to me are not rom-coms. I agree.

I mean, to me, the only defining, the one thing you have to do to be a romantic comedy is that the two people have to hate each other at the beginning and then end up together at the end. Right. And that's the formula. And then you work in kind of other worlds. You can set it in space. You can set it in a Western.

and you can set it in the magazine world as half of them do, as my favorites do. Are you saying we need Westworld romantic comedy? I would certainly be... I would certainly enjoy it more than the Westworld that, you know, throw in a little romantic drama and I'm suddenly involved.

I guess it does have romantic drama. It's just not cute. It'd be funny. That would be like a real tonal change to that show. That'd be funny. It also just has to be a comedy. Yeah. It's not a romantic comedy that's not jokey.

Agreed. Let's get into the most rewatchable scene. Do you have a pick for that? The one that most immediately comes to mind is actually, it's very early in the movie, but it's the montage of New York and the two of them walking around the Upper West Side and they walk past each other. The cranberries are playing. That cranberries cue is very important to me. Yeah, it's really good. And, you know, Sue, like I said, I think I mostly watched this on cable when I first moved to New York.

And this is weird to say, but I think it's one of not having grown up in New York, it was one of those movies that taught me, quote, how to be a New Yorker or what you're supposed to appreciate about New York. Like, I'm pretty sure I learned about Zabars from You've Got Mail and not from having lived there. I only went because some of you've got mail. And it was a little bit kind of like a New York guide for me. Fun fact. Yes.

First movie to ever film in Zabars. Indeed. And that's also the moment when you know that they're going to get together. Yeah. He bails her out. Right. She doesn't have cash. She's in the cash only line.

The people behind her are really complaining. Let me tell you, that would definitely happen at Zabars. Right. And Sarah Ramirez is her cashier, and Tom Hanks is like, starts doing a knock-off joke with her. And for some reason, just wins her over and she's allowed to swipe her card. Great job, Tom Hanks. But so for me, I think it's just that first scene because it sets everything that you need to know. That's great.

I like having expectations set out clearly for me at the beginning. He's like an opening statement. I'm comfortable. I know what's coming. I can enjoy it. I don't want surprises with something I'm going to rewatch 8,000 times. Also, I think that is the hallmark of a rewatchable movie where it sets you very clearly in a time and place. Yes.

And that scene functions to like, okay, here's where we are and everything's happening in this world. It shows you like the snow globe of the world. Exactly. Which is really nice. Again, well-written movie. Shout out to Nora Ephron and Deliafron. Shout out to the Ephron gals. My most rewatchable scene just a little bit later, it's when they first meet in person in the bookstore.

Kathleen Kelly, I own this store. And you are... Joe. Just call me Joe. We'll take these books. You're going to come back, aren't you? Of course. See, that is why we are not going to go under because our customers are loyal.

They're opening up a Fox Books around the corner. Fox Books, my daddy. Likes to buy a discount. But don't tell anybody that, honey. There's nothing to be proud of. F-O-X. That is amazing. You can spell fox?

Can you spell dog? F-O-X. Yeah, exactly. Tom Hanks has taken his. his brother and his aunt, Annabel, who is like six years old for the day. And they started the day on his houseboat where they say hello to New Jersey. Hello, New Jersey. And then they go to a street fair or a block party.

And then they end up in the bookstore. And that's when Kathleen and Joe first meet for the first time. And the kid keeps spelling F-O-X. F-O-X. Because that's his last name because he is a sion of Fox Books. Yes, exactly. I don't know. That's just like a real, that's a classic.

It's all of the moments when they are interacting together in New York. And that's another one as well because the montage scene that you mentioned, they go on the carnival ride and they do all. It's a very Upper West Side, very charming scene. Yeah. Also, again, really good music. Also, for me, I've talked with this a lot on podcasts. I love ER.

And the little girl who plays Aunt Annabelle is on ER as Mark Green's daughter when she gets older and accidentally gives ecstasy to her baby sister. Oh, no. Are they okay? Yes, everyone survives, except for Mark who dies a couple years later. It's really 90s in here right now. But that's just one of my favorite shows, so I was happy to see

her so early on. It really made a big difference to me. Yeah, like, we both picked scenes from the beginning because the buildup to this movie, so well, in this movie, so well done, as far as Romcom goes. Okay. It is, as we said, it is extremely

of a time and place. Yes. The time in place being the 90s. What do you think has aged the best from this extremely 90s film. You know what's funny is that this movie, everything this movie predicted came true. Oh, it's true. So I was watching it, by the way,

it's currently on Amazon Prime. FYI. It's now. Service here at the ringer.com. I was to be watching it the other night on Amazon and there's a line in when Kathleen Kelly is protesting, kind of having her rally to save the shop around the corner.

And she says, do you want to get off? It's 72nd in Broadway and not even knowing you're in New York City. Guess what? If you get off at 72nd in Broadway and New York right now, it will be. Trader Joe's. Yes. Bloomingdale's.

Yes. There is Grace Pappiah still there. But that's pretty much it. Everything else. There's a Bank of America. There's all these buildings that have come down recently. Sure. Yeah.

It's a blooming dills, like off bloomingdells. Like discount both still. There's like Lulu lemons down the street. And this is obviously a very breezy take on some complicated issues. Sure. They're taking neighborhoods and New York in general. They're taking up gentrification. Yeah.

And I think also there's a great line later in the piece when Kathleen is writing an email to Tom Hanks' character after the bookstore is closed. And she says, I'm sure someone someday will write something romantic about how the story is always changing. And it's a testament to the city. And it sounds like something that I would say. But the truth is, like, I feel like part of me has died. Yeah. That is just sad scene. It's a really sad scene.

And, you know, having lived in New York for 10 years, you kind of always see people talking about, there's another new thing here. The city is always changing. It's so vibrant. And obviously, it's more complex than that. But all of those things came true in the particular and they are kind of part of what's true about New York. Also, you know, Fox News is a stand-in for Barnes & Noble. but now what's happened to independent bookstores is now happening to Barnes & Noble as well. So it's...

There was a Barnes & Noble on 66th Street that I think the Fox Books is based on that has now become a century 21. Right. So there you go. And then also we all meet all romantic partners via textual communication on the internet. Right. So it's true. You know, I would say three things that got right. I'm just putting that out there.

Also, I just want to say chat rooms are really back. They meet in an over 30s chat room. and Slack is just a collection of chat rooms. That's true. Do you wander into public slacks, Juliet? As a gag? No, but I'm just saying, chat rooms are a part of the fabric of many office workers' lives. That's true.

Like, it's not public slacks, although there are, like, some political organizing companies, like use Slack to, like, disseminate information. Yeah, there are non-work slacks. Yeah. So I'm sure it's happening. Definitely. Good for you, you crazy kids. I think the two things that have aged the best are, first of all, Kathleen Kelly's apartment. She has, like, a really, like, lovely junior one bedroom on the Upper West Side.

Very sunny. It also walk up. It just looks like anthropology. It doesn't, it doesn't, minus the fact that she doesn't have a sleek MacBook. It could totally be, like, a dream apartment of mine right now. It's very Pinterest. Yeah. And what's funny, both, I forgot to say this, but the apartment and the clothes have definitely come back in style.

Yes. Because, I mean, it's a 20-year cycle, I guess. She's very Eileen Fisher, like in the girls' episode way. Right. And also kind of Gap, Norm Cor, et cetera. It's definitely back. And I think the apartment is true as well. You can just imagine that yellow.

The bright color is very Instagram friendly. Totally. Yes, I agree. It has like a cottage feel. Sure. And I think by current apartment also has a cottage feel kind of. It does. Yes, I would say that's true.

Yeah, there you go. Also, number two. Yes. Would you say this is the original catfishing? Oh. I mean, I'm sure that there are a lot of old movie catfishings that I can't remember, including possibly the shop around the corner, the original version of this film. Right. And then the play that came before it.

So this is like part of the lineage of the beginning of catfishing. So shout out to Neve from catfish, who's also from the Upper West Side. So I think we can definitively say modern catfishing began on the Upper West Side. Okay. That's exciting. It is exciting. What's going on up there with you guys? I don't know.

Too many losers stuck behind their computer. I don't know. Just kidding. Okay. So for everything that aged well, there's also a long list of things that aged quite poorly, which we're going to get into. But first, let's talk about Miandis. Putting on good underwear in the morning helps you feel confident, powerful, and ready to conquer the world as you should, just like Kathleen Kelly and you've got male. Meandis are well made from a sustainably sourced, naturally soft fabric that is three times softer than cotton, and meandis will be the most comfortable pair of underwear you will own. They are super breathable and come in tons of different. colors and styles including boy short bikini and thong. There's something for every mood and every occasion so you can always start your day strong, 100% satisfaction guaranteed. And right now, Beyondies has an exclusive offer just for our listeners. Get 20% off your first pair plus free shipping.

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This is a limited time offer, so what are you waiting for? Start wearing the best underwear of your life. Go to meundies.com slash rewatchables right now. And we'd also like to thank the new Paramount Pictures film, Mother. A couple's relationship is tested when uninvited guests arrive at their home, disrupting their tranquil existence. from filmmaker Darren Aronofsky, who made Black Swan and Requiem for a Dream. Mother stars Jennifer Lawrence, Javier Bardem, Ed Harris, and Michelle Pfeiffer in this riveting psychological thriller about love, devotion, and sacrifice.

Mother is out in theaters September 15th. Go see it and don't miss the movie everyone we'll be talking about. So Bill Simmons just watched this movie with his wife, Carrie, and he texted us saying it's the movie that's like aged worst of all time. I take offense at that, A. And B, I think we just made a pretty good case that a lot of things hold up. We did. But there are some things that age poorly. One, I would say, even though her clothes are great, her hair is not great.

Meg Ryan's haircut. I think it looks fantastic on her. It does look good on her. But she's Meg fucking Ryan. She's so beautiful. It's of a moment to be sure. And I vividly remember that moment. It's not that long after sliding doors in Gwyneth Paltrow's similar blonde haircut.

They were all trying to do that. When Gwineh Paltrow and Brad Pitt were dating and they had a match. Yeah. What a time that was. Yeah. It's also very few other people can wear it, but it looks adorable on her. Yeah. She wears, these shoes are also popular now, which is like those really ugly but supposedly

very comfortable clogs. Yeah, I love those. That have like a front and a back to them. they're not like stylish, but I think that like there's a class of women that get to like age 32, and they're just like, I'm going for comfort and I'm wearing these shoes. There was a very interesting and specific age that you picked, which happens to be the age in between the two of us, but it's fine. Well, I'm wearing kids today that are ortholite and extremely comfortable as well. I too have gone for comfort, just not clogs, but I support comfort completely.

Yeah, it's a specific look. Yes. I think that it is actually weirdly more fashionable than. and fashionable in this moment than we're giving it credit for, but that might just be that this moment is also extremely unfashionable. That's a valid opinion. That's true. I was reading

Vanity Fair a couple years ago, did like an oral history about you've got mail, and it was like right after Nora Ephron passed away, and it was saying how they wanted it to be like a serious bookstore and they wanted her to be serious, but they didn't want her to be dowdy. So there was a lot of, I think the quote was,

Nora didn't want her to be someone who didn't shave her armpits, which is a classic Nora Ephron thing to say. It is a classic nor, like so judgmental and like kind of stereotyping, but whatever. Yeah. So I do that too. Well, that segues into one of the things that doesn't age well

for me, which is when Tom Hanks goes to meet Meg Ryan for the first time, do you think we should meet? And they're going to meet at a bookstore and Meg Ryan's character is going to have a copy of Pride and Prejudice with a rose tucked inside. Yes. And

Tom Hanks' character goes with Dave Chappelle, who plays his Fox books. Employee. He kind of runs the day-to-day logistics. They actually meet at Cafe Lalo, which is... I have always wondered, I've never known. It's Cafe Lalo. It exists.

It has very good a hot chocolate. It's still open. It's between Broadway and Amsterdam on 83rd. Yes. So Tom Hanks is very... Tom Hanks' character is very nervous. Joe Fox is nervous. And so he asks Dave Chappelle's character to go and look for him.

And it's all focused. focused around, is she pretty enough to be worthwhile? And there's one point where Tom Hanks is screaming, I knew she had to be beautiful. She had to be. She had to be. Which, like, I get it. And I don't want to, obviously looks are a part of attraction.

But it feels superficial in a way that I just think it would be written differently now. Yeah. Like, like, he wasn't going to go in if she wasn't attractive. Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous. us. I will say, I'm afraid that perhaps the 2017 version of this would be a lot more like, this is us than...

Oh, extremely weepy instead of... Sentimental, instead of like kind of funny and... Funny and sentimental. Yeah, funny and sentimental. It's true. Yeah, funny and sentimental doesn't really exist anymore. I can't think of anything. The last movie that I think was funny and sentimental is the family

stone. I can't think of anything since. That was funny? I thought it was funny. I'm sorry. Sarah Jessica Parker getting drunk. I was just trying to think of a joke in it. It's pretty dark. Diane Keaton's the mom, right?

Yeah. And she's ill. And Coach is the father. Right. And Rachel McAdams is the bully sister. Yeah, that's a, it's funny at times. I mean, Nora Ephron's punchy. There's a little bit of it.

She is one of a kind. I mean, it's very much. But there's a little edge to her. She's throwing an elbow pretty often. Sure. It's harder to do that and be earnest simultaneously. now. It's true.

People give you the bandwidth to do it. Yeah. Totally. Some other things that didn't age that well is just sort of like the lifestyle. It's sort of like is not really a thing anymore. I don't know. I just think like they sort of make them seem like these like casual, like bookish people. And I just feel like that's not really portrayed in the same way anymore.

I think it was pre-hipster culture. There's no hipsterness in this, at least not ironically. Oh, so they're just. So you don't mean the fact that they can just wander around at three in the afternoon on a Tuesday. Definitely still exists. Right. I live in L.A., so I know that exists. But, like, there's not a lot of irony in it. Again, I was going to say that goes back to the idea of it's an earnest but still spiky outlook.

Yeah. And then also, like, their relationship to the Internet is just so silly because the Internet barely existed. It was 1998. What do we want from them? But, like, that did not age well, I guess. It makes me nostalgic. I think it aged great. I think let's all go back there.

Another thing is Greg Kinnear, its character, works for The Observer. Yes. And that is now owned by Jared Kushner, whereas these people are like bleeding heart liberals. Yes. Who are fighting for the independent bookstore. That's a great point. RIP, the Observer. Totally, the print observer.

Yes. Moving on. There's usually a segment on rewatchable. It's called Half-Assed Internet Research Corner. Yes. And with You Got Mail, it's interesting because you Google it to do some half-examil. fast internet research. And the original website still exists from Warner Brothers when the movie came out in 1998.

And it's just really like, it's a portal back in time. It's kind of funny that they left it up. I don't know why they did, but so they have. And you go back to it. And like you're privy to all of the like the marketing strategy that they had back then. And you open it and like you click and it's like aOL intro. It's very weird. It's also funny that in 1998,

I was surprised to learn that Warner Brothers had had the foresight to make a separate website and do that type of movie marketing. I didn't remember it at the time. Who's going to that in 1998? I don't know. I mean, sometimes you were bored and waiting for whoever to sign on to AIM and might be – I guess I didn't really surf the Internet in 1998. Right. Surf the Internet.

Wow. Put me on a glacier. You've been transported. I guess so. How do you even get to a URL in 1998? Like Google's not operating the way it is now. So it was a marketing style. You have to have the information and, like, you know, character by character.

Well, I guess you'd have to go through AOL. So you know what I learned during my half-ass internet research that I thought was very fascinating? Is that I think critics were too hard on this movie in 1998. It didn't get great reviews. But some people took issue with the level of product placement and you've got mail. Oh, really? Friends. Let me tell you about 2017.

because this looks so quaint and funny and is kind of a relic of a time that it since past now. But I guess in the moment it did kind of look like crossover promotional. When he went to Starbucks? Oh, in AOL. Yeah, I mean, Starbucks, but especially AOL, because I have to assume that AOL was a heavy part of the marketing. The logo was probably involved and recognizable. I mean, the opening credit starts with the AOL screen. Yeah, AOL is kind of new. It was 1998, so it just started a few years ago. It's pretty wild, though.

but the fact that they invested so much money in making a website, I know how much it costs to make a website right now. I can only imagine how much it costs in 1998, pre-W WordPress, pre-square space, pre-whiz.com. This was just a real project. I wonder if they were emboldened by Tom Hanks's run that he was on. Maybe they were just moved by the power of the internet after watching You've Got Mail, and they too wanted to find love by the You've Got Mail promotional websites. They do make it really beautiful.

Let's get into the Dion Waiters Award. Best heat check performance by our role player. There are so many contenders. Let's just run down some of the people who appear in this movie. We've already mentioned Dave Chappelle. Yes. In 1998. So it's sort of like, even before, it's way before his peak.

That's true. Parker Posey. Parker Posey plays Tom Hanks' current girlfriend in the beginning. She's a book editor. As you mentioned, Greg Kinnear, plays Meg Ryan's current... Frank. ...boyfriend, Frank, the Observer Writer. Yes, Frank the Observer Writer.

who basically like I fucks this news anchor who like I presume he then ends up with like when he's on camera with her. They say they suggest as much. Yes. She seems kind of like a New York One stand in. Yeah, for sure. We also got Heather Burns. This was her first movie. You probably know her as Sandra Bullock's best friend in Miss Congeniality.

Yes. But also two weeks notice. Yes. And she's just like she goes on to become a rom-com girl. This was her first acting job. Very, very important role. that she plays in a rom-com space. Yeah, it's essential.

She's kind of like Judy Greer before Judy Greer. Yeah. There's also Steve Zon. I was about to say, don't forget Steve Zon. A real cult following for him. He also works at the bookstore and is like unlucky in love. And he can't subject himself to online dating because he can't even do real-life dating. Again, very prescient.

Many people feel that way still. It's very true. I also just want to say that I thought Dabney Colman, who plays Tom Hanks's father, is excellent. Yes. And then there's Gene Stapleton who very famously improvised in this movie, some of like the more like overtly sexual moments. Not that there really are any. Nor have found movies are pretty chaste.

And then I've learned that the big moments that have been come from her movies that are sexual, she didn't even write them. So a big revelation in the when Harry Met Sally movie, like people haven't heard of that, is that the fake orgasm scene was not her idea. It was a combination of Rob Reiner and, like, other people around the movie. I'll have what she's having. I'll have what she's having. So did, was the cybersex?

Yes. I tried to have cyber sex ones, but I kept getting a busy signal. Was that improvised? Yes, Gene Sayleton made that up. It's really good. So who's your pick? I think it has, for me, it has to go to Parker Posey. Very limited screen time, but just a really big impact.

I also have a personal, like, like, just sort of like glorification. of the 1990s book editor. I think it's a life I would have really enjoyed. You would have been great at it. Thank you. You know, just expense account lunches, going to like fancy dinners and parties, living on the Upper West Side. Reading a lot. Reading a lot. I think I would have loved it. So the combination of my personal projection and just the fact that Parker Posey is incredible makes me of it to her. But I certainly understand the case for others. Who's yours? I was teetering between Parker Posey and my real answer. And I do want to say the scene at the book party after caviar is a garnish.

Ryan says, how do you sleep at night? And Parker Posey just shows up and starts giving her recipe for her over-the-counter sleeping pill prescription that works and takes her through the night. And it's pitch perfect. And I think about it all the time. It's an incredible moment. And you know she would have had Clonopin if she could have, but she probably just couldn't get a prescription.

Yes. So since Parker Posey has already been rewarded, I'm going with Steve Zon. He's really good. This combination of Steve Zon in you've got Manor. and that thing you do, I did not realize how important that was to me as a young person. I spent a lot of time thinking about both those characters

and they really make me laugh. They're both really good. They're also incredibly different. He's got the range, as the kids say. It's quite a performance. He's like a sad sack, George, who can't get a date. And then he's like the crazy, he's like the sex crazed one.

And that thing you do. Do you think Tom Cruise, I mean, Tom Hanks met him on You Got Mail. That's how he got cast. I never thought by them before. He certainly could have suggested him because he would have cast him in that thing you do. They had one scene together in the bookstore. And I do think that Nora Ephron and Tom Hanks, I believe they were close.

Yeah, they were. I'm sure that that had something to do with it. That's a great scene between those two. Steve Zahn's explaining why the books are... That's why it's worth so much. Yeah, exactly. Tom Cruise, I keep saying Tom Cruise. Tom Hanks's like, why are these books so expensive?

and he said, these are worth so much in their rare children's books, which was supposed to signify that it was a very serious store. Most offensively enjoyable rom-com cliche. I mean, this movie is a testament to the offensive rom-com cliche. There is no fucking way that a woman who respects herself and her business, like Meg Ryan, would lovingly accept the man that has put her family business out of business.

There's just no way. It's true. It's very upsetting because it's a great end. Yeah, the speech The The speech in front of the house The speech when Tom Hanks is speaking as Joe Fox Which we talked about

If I hadn't been Fox Books And you hadn't been The Shop around the corner And you and I had just met I know Yeah I would have asked for your number And I wouldn't have been able to wait

24 hours before calling you up And saying, hey, how about How about some coffee or you know, drinks? or dinner or a movie for as long as we both shall live. Joe? And you and I would never have been at war. And the only thing we'd fight about would be which video to run on a Saturday night.

It gets me every time, which is a just phenomenal achievement by Tom Hanks, because it's preposterous. As you point out, first of all, it's preposterous that she would even let him into her apartment slash life after the bookstore is shut down. That's game over. Okay. If I'm sick, do not come and ambush me with flowers. Like, maybe send a text and then find out when I'm feeling slightly better so I could, like, take a suit of fed beforehand. You know what's a great part of that truly absurd scene that I did not remember until recently

is that Meg Ryan just carries the flowers with her around every single room in the apartment? She goes from the kitchen to the dining room, to the living room, to her bed, and she just kind of tucks the flowers under her arm and they go with her. It's great physical comedy. And she's wearing pajamas and a trench coat, which I also really like is like an inversion of like the sexy trench coat. Yes. Trope. But it's like incredibly unsexy.

But I think just to go back to that speech, which Tom Hanks effectively says, what if I hadn't put you out of business? Yeah. What if, you know, we could, X, Y Z, we could be together. And that performance, no one else can do of a Tom Hanks. I was trying to think of if anyone else can pull that off. And I think probably a few people could. Your main man could. My main man?

Ryan Gosling could. Wow. Yeah, he could. Oh, I just got really, I just had a physical reaction to that. Just a kind of emotion and adrenaline kind of rolled through my body because it's true. Gosling and Stone could remake You've Got Mail. Yes. I just want to put that out there.

Oh, wow. They really could. They really could. I don't think they could do Sleepless in Seattle because they really need to be together for them to harness each other's power. but I do think they could do you've got mail. Wow. And it would be set in Brooklyn, probably in Park Slope.

I'm having a lot of emotional reactions right now. I really want to see this. You made me really homesick. I fear how people would respond to it in this day and age. They would say there's no way Emma Stone would end up with Ryan Gosling after he put it out of business. And that's true. But this movie is so good.

And Tom Hanks' performance is so incredible. He knocks it out of the park. And then, you know, a few moments later when they meet at the actual park, and there's that moment the dog comes around and Tom Hanks walks into the scene and he does that little strug to kind of signal to her, it's me. It gets me every time. Yeah. It's so good. And, you know, he's underplaying it. It's a choice to not be crazy, to not go over the top or be too performative and it's pitch perfect.

and it's ludicrous and I'm never not moved by it. I know. One thing that Nora Efron really gets at in her movies that I think we both relate to is like the tension between like wanting to be a boss and also just like wanting like someone to sweep you off your feet, which is like, which to me defines rom-coms, but that's because that's how she defined them. Yes.

And it's something that's really hard to capture. Well, you know, and it's also true of kind of the 40s rom-coms. She just, her female characters are, big personalities, lots of opinions, they are bosses, as you say, and just they take up as much space as the men. And that's very much true of kind of the original romantic comedies, and that's true of certainly the Nora Ephron comedies, not as much the Kate Hudson School of Romantic comedy. They aren't unequal footing in those, which is why those are not as good. And I think it's also the problem with the new rom-coms is that all of the protagonists are messes. And that's fine. You can

make movies about someone being a mess, but it's not the same formula and it doesn't allow for the same sense of humor and the same chemistry and the same energy between the two people. Yeah, and you can't feel comfortable making the compromise along with the main character if you're not on board with her to begin with. That's a great point. And she, like, makes it easy for you to do that. Yes. We've been singing the praise of Tom Hanks.

Would you say this is Tom Hanks at the apex of his career? No. On Apex Mountain? No, I'm not going to go that crazy. It's certainly, this streak is. The streak's amazing. But I think the thing that is so remarkable about this performance is, tossed off is not the word, but it's so natural. It's not his apex.

He's not even trying that hard. I know. This is what he can do. He just inhabits the clothes and the sensibility so well. Yeah. You just want to hang with him in this movie. He seems fun. Exactly.

What about Nora Fron? Do you think it's her apex? No. It's, to me personally, are we taught, we're just talking film and not writing, right? Yeah, film. To me personally, it's certainly the one I've watched the most and the one that I can quote the most naturally. I think you can't deny the effect that when Harry Met Sally had on. I agree.

It's just changed everything. It's also a fucking phenomenal movie. It's incredible. Here's another thing that I would say is that I really love Heartburn, the movie. It's definitely not the best. best, but it's really underrated. It's a great. Performances are great. It's very funny.

So it's not the peak, Nora, but it's peak to me. How about that? Sure. I'm with you. I do think, however, this is peak Meg Ryan. I think it's a precipitous drop-off from here. If you look at her IMDB, it would probably confirm that. I mean, let's just take a peek. Wow, you're going to slander Kate and Leopold like that?

I'm sorry, but you go from, you got me old 1998 to 2000, hanging up in proof of life, 2001, Kate and Leopold, 103 in the cut, 2007 and 4 against the ropes, and I'll just stop there because it gets really sad. So I don't think we can feel great about anything after you've got mail. And we feel great about you've got mail. That's true. I think you've got to give her when Harry met Sally as maybe the actual peak.

Okay. Maybe I do. I'm sticking with this one. I just think she's so cute. She's great in it. It's hard to imagine this movie without her. It's impossible to imagine. this movie without Tom Hanks.

And it's really, and thus it is hard to imagine it without Meg Ryan because they have such chemistry that's established at this point. And again, I think part of this film just borrows on the fact that we already know that they wind up together. It's, you want to see them together more. So in that sense, it's impossible to imagine without her. But she also, Nora Ephron pushes her in her directing to be much more like physical movements than she does in most of her movies.

Yes. Like at one point she's like alone in the store and she's moving around. And then when she's kind of like getting herself fired up, she's like, punching me. punching the air and like walking around. Yes. And as you said, the carrying the flowers around, she's doing a lot more gesticulating than she usually does. It's a fantastic performance.

When I think about her, I still, obviously, the orgasm scene is the famous scene, but there's scene early in when Harry met Sally where they stop at the diner and she's giving the order. She's like, I'll have the apple pie a la mode if it's vanilla, but if it's something and it's not something. Just the pie. It is a perfect moment. It's kind of the quintessential effron moment in a way. And it's slightly less cutesy.

It feels more honest in a way. Sure. There's a little bit of cutiness in you've got male that I really like and obviously lap up with a spoon. But I'm giving the edge to one hair and Matt Sally. The curls in when Harry Matt Sally, her hair? Love. Yeah. Love.

God, also Carrie Fisher's really good in that movie. Ooh. All right. So not everyone's at the top, but they're pretty damn close to it. I'm going to stick with it. I still think it's the peak for her. Okay. I was racking my brain trying to hand out an unintentional comedy award, but I honestly, like, I'm sorry, Bill.

I know you won't agree, but I can't think of one. Like, even Greg Kinier, who's supposed to be like maybe a straight, like the straight man is funny. Like, intentionally so, I think. Yeah, it's a pretty deliberate movie. So in that sense, it's hard. You know, it's really underrated, and this, again, is not unintentional. It was completely intentional is Dabney Coleman's wife falling in love with her nanny and then, like, and then her. her leaving her husband for a woman.

Very before it's time. And the way that they even deliver that reveal, which is on the boat, and he goes through the other nannies that he's run off with and then he gets to say, The Nanny. That reminds me. There is one unintentional comedic thing, which is the presence of houseboats. That's just ridiculous. Thank you.

That is true. Is that a nod to Sleepless in Seattle? Like, I don't even get it. Like, are we just supposed to be like this Tom Hanks when an Nora Ephron movie lives on a boat? Like, that's bullshit. Yeah. And explaining on that, this is a good note because it's not quite funny, but I do pause at the idea of three like book moguls as these super villain Moherr couch swaggering guys with matching boats in the pier at 72nd Street or wherever it is. It's somewhere around there, right?

That's where the terrible boat basin is. 79th Street boat basin, yes. Never go to the boat basin, everyone. Since this movie's in May, there's like a new at like 70th Street, there's a new like pier in restaurants. It's also my parents really like, so that's better. Oh, good. I'm glad. Anyway, yeah, I think those characters, she does funny things with kind of the marrying and the young children.

It's my sister, my brother. She's my aunt. Exactly. That's all very funny. But their characters don't really quite add up for me. Maybe that's what the, maybe that is what book moguls really look like. But it's not what I have in my mind. For picking nits, yes.

There's only one thing that I think really I have a problem with, which is, while the Zabar scene is great, making Sarah Ramirez have like a weird unidentified accent, like turning her into like some kind of like ethnic cashier, that wouldn't fly. That doesn't fly. Yeah, I was going to bring that up as well. Kind of uncomfortable. Yes. So they do a joke, like a dumb knock knock joke that's supposed to like play on like her loose grasp of English. And then somehow Tom Hanks like charms her into charm Sarah Ramirez into letting. Meg Ryan

user credit card and it's just like it's just cheap nothing else in the movie is really cheap except for that and it bothered me I completely agree

I was going to bring it up it's a pretty white movie so as white as the day as long yeah and that scene just kind of

sticks out even more so because of the lack of representation otherwise also very Nora very white it's very true best quote

do you a pick if I knew your name and address I would send you a bouquet of freshly sharp pencil. Which I was just thinking today, it is almost freshly sharpened pencil season. I know.

It's a good one. Tear up every time. That's definitely like, remember when we had AIM and we had away messages and we put them up? Yeah. I have used that so many times. I'll just be really honest. That was such a big deal to picking away message when you were going to class in college. Yeah.

That one gets me every time. So I guess maybe I was into this movie before I graduated college because that got some heavy usage. That's a really good one. Yeah. Mine is when they just yell hello New Jersey because it's so silly. Yeah. A follow-up that I did, I told you this, but I didn't realize at the very beginning when Greg Kinnear,

the very first scene Greg Kinnear is walking out the door and he says sushi tonight. And Meg Ryan yells sushi, which I have been informed as something that I now do in my life every time anyone says, or anytime I'm going to have sushi, I yell sushi in the exact same tone. So that's my runner-up. I also really like when Greg Kinnear calls her a lone read. A lone read. wandering in the hands of time. That's a really good one too because it's just so silly and caricaturedish in a great way.

One more. One more. When they are, what is the cafe where they meet? Cafe Lalo. Cafe Lalo. Tom Hanks has decided that Meg Ryan is attracted enough so he can go in. I'm sorry, I should say his character. It's not Tom Hanks' decision.

And they have a somewhat contentious conversation. And Meg Ryan's character is complaining about how Tom Hanks only introduced himself as Joe. Mm-hmm. She says it's like all these girls who introduce themselves like cocktail waitresses. I'm Tiffany. I'm Brittany. Don't they know you're supposed to have a last name, which I think about a lot. It's really good.

Really good. And that's just classic Nora. There's no reason. It's that in the Starbucks scene about how Starbucks enables you to make decisions. So just a bunch of kind of life observations folded into the storytelling. And she can do that like almost no one else can. I love the Starbucks scene too. It's a really good one.

that Starbucks had just opened when this movie came out, and it just closed last year. Wow. It's R-I-P. I got a couple unanswerable questions for you. Okay. What are the economics of the shop around the corner? Are we sure that could even have existed at all? Yeah, it does seem...

Well, you can. There are still independent bookstores now. That's true. It's hard to do. You got to have, like, a shadow business, I think. You know what I learned when reading this, and I wanted... When doing research and I wanted to ask you about it? So it's actually a cheese store?

Yes, on 69th in Amsterdam. Is that cheese store still there? No, it's not. It's something different now. Okay. But it's gone. That stretch is like, well, Columbus is really fancy. The whole area's changed.

But yeah, that's gone. Well, I would just say that if a cheese store can be working in the Upper West Side in 1998, then a children's bookstore is definitely viable. I think it's viable until that's until Barnes & Noble comes. It's exactly what happens. Why is Dave Chappelle in this movie? Great question. I guess he was trying to transition into movies and those are the roles that they offer. That's a really weird one.

It's always just like kind of overlooked in the Dave Chappelle history. I mean, obviously to me it's not overlooked. But it's pretty weird. Like the other movies he had been up to this point, he had been in the 90 professor, Joe's apartment, Conair, the Real Blonde, Dan Whitey, Bull of Pork, and then half-bake came out this year as well. So he was like on the up. But like, it's just weird.

I can't explain it. It's unanswerable. Would you say the foxes are still rich today? Oh, that's tough. Like, do they get some Amazon buyout or something? Is Amazon offering buyouts to motors and Barnes & Noble? No. I think, I mean, yes, I think they're doing fine comparatively. Sure. I don't know about the bank sheets. They've certainly taken a hit. They don't have the fancy mohair couches and the boats anymore. No, they sold the boat for sure. They're like, we can't pay for this boat slip. Yeah. Let's put it all into our apartment. All right.

And finally, Amanda. Yes. Who won this movie to you? Hanks. I go McRyan. I think that she... Wow. Really?

Yeah. I just think because for me, it's all downhill after this. And I don't know. I just find her so winning and charming. And I don't know. I have a real attachment to her character. I really like her. But for me, this is just...

This is such an effortless, great Hank's performance. Yeah. It's not even the first tier probably of great Tom Hanks's performances, but it's so likable. And it is in many ways essential to what makes Tom Hanks such a great actor. And it just feels like he just woke up and decided I'll do this today and it was better than anyone else would be able to do. That's impressive.

It reminds me of something Jonah Baldwin would have said in Sleepless in Seattle. He puts on his clothes, just goes to work, just dies. It does it every day. Tom Hanks. What a great guy. This is a great movie. If you haven't seen it recently, rewatch it. And even if you think it's stupid, you'll enjoy thinking it's outdated, like Bill did. Yeah, it is extremely revisitable. That's the whole reason that we're doing it. I would say it's a joy. It's a joy in my life, at least. I completely agree. Thanks for listening. For more rewatchables, listen to previous episodes. We've done The Departed. We've done a few good men featuring Amanda Dobbins. Yes, Juliet. There's also. What do they do last week? Point break. There's point break. And there's some old episodes. Check it out.

And you can catch more of me and Amanda on Wednesday, every other Wednesdays on Channel 33 on Jam session. Thanks for listening. And thanks again to Meandis. One more time, thank you to Paramount Pictures and their new film, Mother. A couple's relationship is tested when uninvited guests arrive at their home,

disrupting their tranquil existence. From filmmaker Darren Aronofsky of Black Swan and Requiem for a Dream, Mother stars Jennifer Lawrence, Javier Bardem, Ed Harris, and Michelle Pfeiffer in a psychological thriller about love, devotion, and sacrifice. Go see it in theater September 15th.