The Rich Roll Podcast - 50 Ironmans. 50 Days. 50 States: The Iron Cowboy’s Assault on Impossible — Musings on Limits, Conviction, Family & Service

Episode Date: May 24, 2015

\UPDATE: July 26, 2015. He did it. Yesterday I had the great honor and privilege of running the final marathon with James, and watching him cross the finish line on his 50th ironman in 50 states in 50 days to the deafening cheers of over 1,000 fans in attendance. What James has accomplished isn't just stunning — it's truly one of the greatest achievements in the history of (voluntary) human endurance. We made plans to do a follow up podcast today, but alas he lost his voice taking the time to talk to all his fans late into the evening last night. However, I promise we will reconvene very soon so I can bring you the full story, pillar to post. Until then, please enjoy this prefatory conversation. People roll their eyes in incredulity when I tell them about my experience completing 5 ironman-distance triathlons on five Hawaiian Islands in under a week. If you are one of those people, brace yourself. This week's guest will blow the lid off everything you thought you knew about human potential. The capacity to suffer. And the will to endure. James Lawrence — aka the Iron Cowboy — is a husband. A proud father of five kids. And an athlete with two Guinness World Records in triathlon: most 70.3 races in a calendar year (22 in 30 weeks) and most Ironman triathlons in a calendar year (30). Nonetheless, James is restless. He knows he is capable of so much more. So just two weeks from today, on June 6, 2015 the Iron Cowboy will strive for the seemingly impossible when he attempts a challenge so mind numbing I get delirious just thinking about it: 50 Ironman courses, 50 consecutive days, through all 50 States. You read it correctly. James' impending adventure is literally 10x the magnitude and degree of difficulty of anything I have personally experienced — a challenge that will test James' mind, body and soul beyond anything I can personally fathom. The best part? He is inviting everyone to join with him. This week I sit down with James to sort it all out: * what inspired his lunatic fringe; * how he is preparing physically, mentally, emotionally; * the “whys” behind the hows and whats; * how he balances his training and racing with professional & family life I found James to be surprisingly grounded; extremely gracious; and quite large at heart. But if I am being completely honest, I have serious doubts about the plausibility of him succeeding in his 50/50/50 quest. I have no doubt James can do 50 Ironman-distance triathlons in 50 states. It's the 50 days part that gets me. Because it leaves absolutely zero room for error. None. And if there is one thing I know about adventures of this ilk, error is an indispensable part if the equation. It's not if something will go wrong. The question is when. Please don't misunderstand. I'm a fan. James is one of the good guys. Someone easy to pull for. I want to see him succeed and you will too. So let's get behind James and his extraordinary goal.

So, on June 6th of this year, 2015, I'm going to embark on a journey to where I'm going to attempt to do 50 full-distance Ironmans in 50 consecutive days, one in every state. That's James Lawrence, aka The Iron Cowboy, this week on The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey folks, welcome to the show or welcome back. I'm Rich Roll. I am your podcast host. And this week I'm coming at you from Sun Valley,

Sun Valley, Idaho. I'm so psyched to be here. I've never been here before. What a beautiful, amazing place. I'm here for the Sun Valley Wellness Festival. I'm having such an awesome time. I've gotten some great runs in. I went mountain biking yesterday on some trails, some single track. It was extraordinary. And I gave an awesome talk this morning. I think it went well. I never know, but it seemed like it went pretty good. And I'm getting to see and meet and hang out with some pretty inspiring people here, some of the other speakers.

On Friday night, I got to meet and hear and eat dinner with Elizabeth Gilbert. She's the author of Eat, Pray, Love, among many other works of fiction and nonfiction. And she gave this really inspiring talk about creativity that I just adored. I just loved it. Yesterday, I saw a presentation by a woman named Bea Johnson. She's the zero waste home person.

Her and her husband and her two kids live in Mill Valley. And they're essentially on this kind of zero carbon footprint lifestyle mission, at least in their home, and how they can kind of reduce all of their waste. And they've gotten it to the point now where she pulled out this mason jar and she said, this is the entire collection of garbage that we created for the year 2014. Like all the garbage that her family had produced for an entire calendar year could be fit into one mason jar. How is that possible? It's extraordinary. And through her talk, she kind of goes through the whole thing and explains, you know, how they made these changes

and how they make sort of more informed consumer purchases and to live this more minimal lifestyle. And it was really inspiring. And she's cool. Like, she's beautiful and chic, and they're very modern, and they have this really kind of cool house. I don't know. The whole thing was, was like fascinating to me. And then last night I heard a talk by a guy called Panache Desai, who I'd never heard of before. I guess you could call him a spiritual teacher. I think that's fair. Anyway, that was inspiring. And anyway, I had this idea that I was going to

have all this time to sit down with all these people and bang out podcast interviews. And of course, the gestalt of the wellness festival, everyone's getting pulled in a million different directions. And there's all kinds of stuff going on. And Elizabeth Gilbert left the same night as her presentation. So I'm having a little bit of a misfire experience trying to schedule these people to sit down, but I'm on top of it. If I don't get to do this this weekend, I now am connected to these people and I will be tracking them down because I really would like to share their messages with you. And this has been a really cool event.

If you're anywhere in the area or at all interested, I would definitely look into it for next year, Sun Valley Wellness Festival. But anyway, it's a beautiful day here. I would very much like to be outside hiking or riding some single track or running, but the show must go on. So I'm back up in the hotel room to engage the mission. And the mission is simple, to help you live and be better. And I do this by getting down and dirty and deep with the best and the brightest across all categories of life, health and excellence to hopefully educate and inform and inspire you to unlock and unleash the best, most authentic version of yourself on the world at large. So thanks for sharing a little time with me today. I appreciate you subscribing to the show on iTunes for spreading the word to your friends and on social media for subscribing to my newsletter, and for clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. That really helps us out a lot for

bookmark it bookmark it on your browser. That way you don't even have to go to my website. And it's just right there for every time you're going to go to Amazon. So anyway, James Lawrence on the show today, the iron cowboy. So who is this guy? Like, I don't even know where to begin. Dad, husband, five kids, five kids, ultra endurance athlete, who's done some pretty extraordinary things to date. I think he's got two world records, most 70.3s, 70.3 half Ironman distance triathlons in a calendar year and most Ironmans in a calendar year. I think he did 30 Ironmans in a calendar year, which is a lot. But now he's really gone nuclear in terms of the next level in what he's about to attempt. On June 6th, he's going to try to do something that I think is fair to characterize as verging, nudging right up

against the impossible. It's a little thing he calls the 50-50-50, 50 Ironmans, 50 states in just 50 days. 50 Ironmans, 50 states, 50 days. Think about that for a minute. You heard me right. Think about that. Are you kidding me? I mean, people freak out and roll their eyes when I talk to them about Epic Five, which is when I did five Ironmans on five Hawaiian islands in five days, or I didn't even do it in five days. It took me seven days. But he is taking this to a whole new place, literally attempting to do something that is 10 times the distance and the amount of time. It's insane. It's insane. And this is going to get going in just under two weeks from the date of recording

this introduction. So that's pretty exciting. And I wanted to be able to introduce you guys to what he's attempting to do. And hopefully you can glean some insights about your own life through learning about his. So we're going to get into all of it, what inspired this lunacy, how he's preparing for it physically, mentally, and emotionally, why he's doing it. What is motivating him to attempt something so crazy? And ultimately how he's balancing all of it with parenting his five kids and staying married and just sort of dealing with the other things, you know, that life brings you. So without further ado, let's just roll right into it. What do you say, you guys? Are you ready for the Iron Cowboy?

Let's do it. Ladies and gentlemen, James Lawrence. The Iron Cowboy is in the house. How are you doing, James? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. So, I'm a little disappointed, man. Where's the cowboy hat?

Come on. I want the full deal. Yeah, I only pull that out for the painful marathon. For the photo op? For the painful marathon time. Do you have it in the car? I don't. I'm actually the furthest thing from a cowboy you'll ever meet. Yeah, so how did that, I mean, so how did that come about, like the whole Iron Cowboy thing, like the whole? Yeah, I'm originally from Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and Calgary's known as Cowtown, alberta canada and um calgary's known as cow town and i did a pen the penticton iron man in 2011 and my wife always got upset that she could never see us coming or know which one we are and we'd always they wait all day long those spectators right and then they we go by them and they miss

us and they're they're upset that would that they didn't get their moment to cheer. Right. And so jokingly, I wore a cowboy hat one race, and my kids loved it. The people loved it. And the name just stuck. And since then, we've just been known as the Iron Cowboy. Now you have to wear it no matter what the weather is. Actually, it's quite functional, too.

It keeps the sun off put ice in there quite comfortable actually well i'm disappointed that i'm not going to get a photo out with you with the cowboy hat on but that just means that we're gonna have to get together at a later date i was gonna say it just means you're gonna have to to come this summer and do something special with me well i think i'm thinking about thinking about it. I was sort of pouring through and reading up on you to get ready for today. And I was like, man, I've got to at least do part of this with you. It gets me excited.

You know you're an endurance junkie when I'm starting to read about what you're planning for. And I'm like, I want to do that. Whereas a normal person is like, that guy is crazy. and I'm like, I want to do that. Whereas a normal person's like, that guy's crazy. But I appreciate you making the trek down here to do the podcast and it took a little jockeying and a little patience for us to make it happen. So thank you, man.

Yeah, you bet. It's an honor to talk to you and I'm really excited about what you have in store. I think I'd heard your name a couple of times, you know, here and there and some of the stuff that you had done, but it wasn't until I read that article in Wired Magazine. Yeah. I think it was last October. It was a short article, but it kind of just, you know, it was,

was that the first official announcement publicly of like what you what you're planning for right now that was kind of the oh crap moment uh i've got it i got now it's out there i gotta go through with it now people people have gone on record so yeah it wasn't like uh you know the calgary local paper you know it was like wired magazine yeah was that in the print version too or just online because i saw it online no it was on it was in the print version yeah it was it's kind of crazy it was in the print version. Oh, was it? Yeah. It was kind of crazy. It was one of those surreal moments.

I'm walking to the airport, and I'm like, hey, I'm in that magazine. It was kind of cool, a little moment for me. All right, so tell us what's going on. So on June 6 of this year, 2015, I'm going to embark on a journey to where I'm going to attempt to do 50 full-distance Ironmans in 50 consecutive days, one in every state. So we're going to start in Hawaii and Alaska and get those difficult flight logistics out of the way. It was funny. I was thinking about it today when I was riding, and I was like, well, Hawaii either has to be first or it's got to be last.

And that was a question, like how did you make that decision yeah initially we had it put out that we were going to do hawaii last because i thought oh hawaii home of the iron man kind of world championships let's finish there but then i thought well what if something happens and we get 49 yeah so i thought you know what if something happens in the first two we can hit hit the reset button and kind of go over. So that's why we kind of flipped that around and ended up deciding to go with Hawaii and Alaska first, then hit the mainland where my family will be waiting, my wife, my five kids with a motor home. And then we're going to do the remaining 48 and kind of do a cool summer vacation for the kids. and kind of do a cool summer vacation for the kids? Well, an interesting summer vacation at least, you know, and unique in that regard.

Well, that is really quite something. And as somebody who's dipped my toe in that world, I'm super excited for you. I'm intimidated and I'm amazed because, you know, I just did five and it almost killed me so the idea of doing 50 is really uh really uh something to behold and i applaud you for the attempt and i can't wait to see how this pans out and i want to get into like the details of the whole thing yeah i i actually applied to do the epic five just as a training thing earlier this year and i uh i didn't get accepted so really i thought well you know what let's just do 50 then what this year and I didn't get accepted. So I thought, well, you know what? Let's just do 50 then. What did Jason say?

Didn't even respond. Really? Yeah. Hmm. Interesting. We can talk later about that. But wow. So this is like, all right, no Epic 5.

I'm just going 50. Yeah. From 5 to 50. I'll just go 10 full. We'll just add a zero. Yeah, I'm going to go 10x on this thing. Yeah. Amazing.

Well, this doesn't come – we'll get into the nitty-gritty, but let's take it back a little bit. I mean, you're coming into this not as somebody who's a complete newbie. I mean, you've got two world records in endurance slash ultra-endurance. You're somebody who's done more half Ironmans in a single calendar year than anyone else. How many was that? That was like 22. And that was like 2011, 2010. And then in 2012, you did 30 full Ironmans in a calendar year. No small task. Also, no small financial investment.

My goodness, like all the travel and the entry fees and all of that. How do you manage all that? Well, yeah, and you throw in real life and five kids. Yeah, I mean, five kids. I got four, five? Come on, man. How are you doing all this? It's just one more.

Yeah. But I've got four girls, one little boy, all in elementary school. Wow. And you know what? It was a sacrifice for sure and we bootstrapped both projects it's interesting when you do when you know 2010 when we said we were going to do that it was kind of like uh that's not possible we're not going to support you and so we kind of just did it on our own shoestring budget and i mean i slept in when

you say we like you mean appealing to iron saying, will you help support this effort or sponsors? Yeah, Iron Man, sponsors, just anybody that would get behind it. And at the time we were raising money for building dams in Africa for a charity in our own quiet way. And just trying to help those people over there that are less fortunate than we are. And, you know, it came about because i was working for the charity at the time and i was like you know what i just want to do something cool that kind of gets me outside of my small little area here in utah and so we i just i did i didn't actually set out to to break that world record it was just i just started doing half ironmans and and and it was just sleeping in

my car and really contacting just people in the triathlon community, which was super cool, and they let me stay at their houses, and they fed me a meal, and it just evolved. And I woke up one day and had a good conversation with my wife and said, I kind of don't want to just be the half Ironman world record holder. I'd like to try the fulls and really raise some money for charity. And again, when we made that announcement, nobody kind of believed that it was possible. And they don't want to take that risk financially and kind of help you out and help you go down that road.

And so, again, we just, it was amazing to see the triathlon community and the endurance community come together and really get behind me and help me do it. And that's really what enabled me to do it. Did you do like a formal kickstarter or anything like that or you're just bootstrapping week one week to the next yeah one week to the next it's amazing when you start on a jersey on a journey and you literally have no idea how you're going to get there uh we had 400 in our bank account and all we knew is that we had entry into the races taken care of we had we how'd you get that part taken care of um so the hits organization generously allowed us to race in their races and then i just asked friends who had businesses or or had a little bit of extra money i said hey

would you be willing to sponsor this race and and we you know with iron man it's so popular we had to register a year before. And, you know, I thought, well, maybe we'll get some support and I'll just sign up for all the races. And then by the time we get there, we'll have the support to do it. And the support never ended up coming. But I think it's a powerful testament to what's required to tackle huge goals. You know, I think a lot of people, there's a paralysis that occurs because they think they need to have everything figured out before they take that first step. You know what I mean? And in my experience, the people that have

accomplished tremendous things or people that have big vision, they begin before it's fully formed. And to hear you say like, oh, I had $400 in the bank account and like, I had no idea how it was going to, you were committed to doing it, but there's a faith that comes in like, well, you know, that's going to, all I have to do is get through this week and I'll worry about next week, next week. And then somehow it all comes together, which is this idea that like, you know, I said it in my book, like, when purpose aligns with faith, like, the universe delivers. You know, it's like it comes through, and it's like I see it all the time. Yeah, it was unbelievable to see it happen.

You know, we just knew it was a journey that we were supposed to take and go on, and we didn't know how it was going to happen. And I talk a lot about conviction and just believing so hard, you know, so profoundly that something's supposed to happen that it does. When I did a, we went over to race in Europe where we did four consecutive races over there. And I literally was using the expo food bars and everything to feed me because we didn't have enough money to buy food. and everything to feed me because we didn't have enough money to buy food. And, you know, it's interesting. When people hear what I do or what I did, they just instantly assume, oh, you're rich and single.

And, you know, as you know, it couldn't be further from the truth where we don't have very much money. We do this because we absolutely love it. We're trying to raise awareness and funds for something bigger than us. And it's really been a family journey. And to tell you the truth, I think it would have taken away from our experience had a sponsor got behind it, because we wouldn't have met the people along the way that really helped to push us through it

and to get us through those hard times and to support us. And it was just unbelievable, the people that I met and the generosity that came. And it you know, it was just unbelievable, the people that I met and the generosity that came. And it wasn't just, you know, across the country, we went through 11 different countries. And so we saw this generosity through New Zealand and all of France and Europe and Mexico. I mean, it was just crazy to see that it was just mankind came together for just a good cause. And that's what makes that journey so beautiful, right? I mean, for just a good cause.

And that's what makes that journey so beautiful, right? I mean, the community that congregated around it. I mean, that's so much more impactful and I'm sure sort of resides in a precious place in your memory much more so than, you know, what it was like to cross the finish line in that final 30th, right? It's sort of like that, the entire experience and its aggregate of all these people

that you were able to, you know, meet and touch and impact and affect. It's beautiful. Yeah, and you've probably experienced it with the many journeys and people that you've come across. It's hard to express, and people ask me all the time, like my dad, for example, he goes, I don't get, I don't understand what you do. He just doesn't get it. But it's the journey, it's the process. It's the people I meet along the way.

It's the, I mean, people like you, they tell you that you inspire them. And I get that same type of reaction. But really, it's the people that I meet along the way that keep me going. And those people that I get exposed to, I mean, I get excited to meet those people. Yeah, it's cool. So you did the 30. What was the low point in that journey? What was the hardest moment?

I mean, was there any period during that experience where you just thought, like, it's not going to happen, like I can't do it, or setbacks that you thought maybe you weren't going to be able to overcome? Well, I think every day and every week was like that because we literally didn't know how we were getting to the next location. And until that flight was bought, like how deep are we going to get into this? And so the lows and highs were constant and consistent just because it was just that massive unknown. But that's also what made it super exciting, Just that unknown of how is this going to end. But that creates a lot of stress and anxiety, and it's hard to train with a clear mind

and sort of be a good dad and all those kinds of things when you're carrying that heavy burden around with you. Yeah, and I think that's what made 2012 very difficult for myself and my family was that extra added stress of that unknown. And it also lengthened the time period of what we're doing. And that's kind of like what I like about this summer's project is it's 50 days. And so if I turn into a grumpy bastard for 50 days, then I can justify it a little bit over an entire year. Well, I'm sure there will be grumpy moments. It's so amazing. over an entire year. Well, I'm sure there will be grumpy moments, you know.

God, it's so amazing. So most of it, I mean, how much of the logistics do you have figured out in terms of, like, where are you going to get the swim in when you hit this state? And do you have the route, like, totally fully formed? Yeah, so, you know, it's like eating an elephant one bite at a time. And initially I had to just go okay we i try to involve my kids in everything that we do just because i don't want them to feel like they're not part of this or or dad's neglecting them to do whatever he's doing so we we literally the first thing we did is we've got a giant map and we put it on the wall and then we got sharpies and we

started drawing all over the map and it's they fix on it every single day now. They love it when we make changes. And so now we have the route all done. And then it took me months. But I literally hand drew every course with the help of, basically I put out a call online looking for a state ambassador for every state. So every state there's one person who's kind of going to be your go-to. Yeah. And so, so I would, I would,

either they would help me design the course or I would design the course and I, we would go back and forth and say, Hey, does this look good now or does this good? And I'm doing about 30 of them in open water, 20 of them in pools. Just logistically it made sense. And for every location we have a backup swimming pool in case of lightning right right right right i can run and bike in lightning but i don't want to swim no it's not smart um but the thing is is like there's there's no room for error you know

what i mean like if you're going to do 50 in a row 50 days 50 states there's no like there's no accounting for what, I mean, it's like, how many bikes do you have? Like, what happens if you break your frame or something? You know what I mean? Like, you can't, there's no. Well, it's crazy, too, because the first two days, well, the first, like, five days are just going to be nuts,

not only because my body's going to be completely freaking out. Yeah. It's not going to know what's happening. But, I mean, we leave hawaii and get to alaska and i have 30 minutes to get to the pool and then we go from alaska to uh washington and i've got 55 minutes to get to the pool and then after we leave uh portland oregon it's a 10 and a half hour drive through the night to get to Santa Cruz, California. And I have 30 minutes to get in the lake. And so those first four or five days

are going to be intense for me and the crew that's helping me just logistically on top of doing the consecutive Ironmans. How many crew members do you have that are going with you for the whole time? Yeah. So me, my wife and my five kids for sure. Um, I'm going to have, uh, a chiropractor that's going to fly in every weekend. Uh, and that'll be there for two or three days. And then, um, I'll have two full-time drivers, um, that'll drive through the night and they'll kind of alternate what there'll be like Sherpas in the day and drivers at night. Um, and then, uh, periodically and whenever we can get it, we'll have a massage person. Right.

That's a lot of people, though, for one RV, right? So how is everyone sleeping? Yeah, nobody's allowed in the RV but me, the wife, and the kids. And then the rest of the people have just been a support vehicle behind us. Wow. And then crashing wherever they want. Yeah, amazing. I mean, my experience from doing Epic Five was that the biggest challenges for me personally, speaking from my own experience, was less about getting the miles in, like the actual physical aspect of completing those Ironmans, and much more about the sleep deprivation, the logistics.

I mean, it was complicated because we had to get on a plane every day, and you'll have that for the first couple times. But after that, the idea of just getting in an RV and washing off and getting in bed and having somebody feed you, we had to schlep all our gear and then wait for our bags and baggage claim and then go to the hotel and then unpack and pack and all these kinds of things that really started to erode. It just ate into the time that you should be sleeping or should be being fed. And that was part of the adventure and the amazing aspect of it.

But I think that ultimately, when you aggregated that up day after day, that's what really started to catch up to me. aggregated that up you know day after day that's what really started to like catch up to me um so you know the idea that you have the rv and that if you have your crew and they're super dialed in and all you have to worry about is logging those miles that's a good well yeah i actually i actually think that the the cruise job might be harder than what mine's gonna oh it's super hard like explain what it is entail like it yeah people think like oh they're just driving in a van how hard could it be super hard yeah it's going to be hard i mean i i know exactly what my task is is i gotta you know swim bike run eat recover you know sleep this is easy you just turn the brain off yeah i gotta turn my brain off but they they've got to make sure that we get to the locations on time that they you know that

everything is clicking into place and everything's ready for me and and so you know obviously nothing gets done without a supporting cast and a team and um yeah i i know that i wouldn't be able to do it without them coming along it's not it's definitely not a solo journey and is this the first time that you've done like multiple days in a row um in competition yeah i've done training up to three big days in a row. We're going to do up to five, but it gets to that tipping point to you're doing too much to get ready for something, and really there's no roadmap to getting ready for 50 consecutive Ironmans.

Nobody's done it. How did your training protocol change from when you were just preparing for ironmans to doing this uh well we increased volume mainly in volume uh we're still keeping fairly strict to a less than 20 of your volume with intensity we don't need to do a lot of zone three. We're doing a lot of Zone 2, Zone 3, real specific work right now. And it's just about logging miles and getting your body used to that fatigue. So we've transitioned into four big days and then three recovery days and then four big days and then three recovery days.

So we've taken all the volume that you would normally do in a week and we're cramming it into into you know three four days right when i was getting ready for epic five it was very similar i mean you don't have to go fast you know it's about conservation it's about economy and you just have to acclimate to moving your body when you don't feel like it and being fatigued so a lot of it is just always moving you know like getting used to just always be doing something, you know, in a low intensity way and to be doing it when you're tired. Yeah. To wake up in the middle of the night and do it or, you know, sort of do it when you don't feel like you're doing it.

So your body just acclimates to this idea that it's constantly in motion. Yeah, I've been mentally preparing myself and getting into the mindset that today's goal is to swim. And then once I'm done with the swim, today's goal is to do the first loop of the bike. And then once I get off the bike, the goal is to run the next mile. And then hopefully you look back and you've done 30 of them, and then you look back and you've done all 50. But it's going to be a game that you play with yourself, and the goal is to make it to lunch.

Right. Yeah, I mean, that's a good sort of stepping stone to start to talk about how you approach something so massive. Like you've done some amazing things in your athletic career. You know, most people struggle with not so much setting goals, but the process of, you know, embarking on actually achieving them. And I think what happens to a lot of people is they get overwhelmed, and they just think, well, it's too hard or it's too big. They don't believe they can do it. And they give up before it even gets hard

because the idea is overwhelming as opposed to the actual tangible, like what you have to do today aspect of it. Yeah, I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is they don't plan. They just set this monster goal and then they don't they don't provide they don't set up a roadmap for it and the perfect example is i do some coaching and some consulting with athletes and and i had a a new person to triathlon and they they really wanted to do an iron man and so we've set up this entire plan for them and then they're all excited and he you know he he started doing the workouts, and he's like, I can't do an Ironman

because he was struggling through some of the smaller workouts that we were doing. And I said, you need to forget about the Ironman. The Ironman doesn't exist right now. Your goal is to do today's workout. And I think that's what people really miss is they just get so hyper-focused on the big thing. And like you just said, they get overwhelmed and what they really need to do. And what I need to do during this journey is just focus on what's immediately in front of you. And if you accomplish today's workout and your goal is to do tomorrow's workout at the end of the week, you've done all the

workouts. And if you've set up your roadmap properly, by the time you get there, you're ready. And it should be no surprise that you accomplish it. And so that's one of the biggest things that people miss and why they set themselves up for failure. And I think if the roadmap is conceptualized properly, that every step along the way should be achievable, because you're never making that quantum leap from one day to the next where suddenly you're tackling something that is outside of your boundaries you know what i mean like you're talking about uh slowly ramping up your volume like very incrementally you know so that it's the same with like big wave surfers you know you see these guys surf these giant waves and then they'll tell you like well i don't really see it as a risk because they've surfed eight billion

waves and went from the two foot wave to the two and a half foot wave to the three foot, you know, like, yeah, this happens very, very gradually, like, you know, Chinese water torture, so that you don't notice it, you know, you don't notice that. And suddenly, the idea of running, you know, a marathon, just on a typical training morning doesn't seem like a big deal anymore, because you've broken that mental barrier. Yeah, one of my hashtags that I use frequently is no goals too big. And it would be a really long hashtag if I put the asterisk behind it. But the asterisk should say within the appropriate time frame. Because if in 2010 had I said, hey, I'm going to go out and do 50 Ironmans in 50 days.

Well, that's a great goal, but not for 2010. I needed to take my mind and my body through the most 70.3s, the most full Ironmans in 50 days. Well, that's a great goal, but not for 2010. I needed to take my mind and my body through the most 70.3s, the most full Ironmans, and then gradually get there. So that would have been a great goal, but not for 2010. And I think no goal really is too big as long as you have the right timeframe in mind in order to accomplish that goal. And now you're three months out, man. How do you feel? I'm terrified. I'm glad to hear you say that because how could you not be? How can you not be? If you're not, you're not really thinking about what you're about to do. Yeah. And I'm really respecting the distance. And it's like you said, concentrating on today. And I've got a great game plan. I've got

a great coach. I've got great people consulting me and I can't look at it as, you know, I'm going to go do 50 Ironmans. Really, I got to say, okay, I'm going to do this training camp. And once I, you know, we did one two weeks ago and I was like, holy crap,

there's no way I can do, you know, do 50. And then I had to, you know, check myself and go, okay, you know what? No, it's, you know, 90 days. The body goes through amazing transformations. You know, your mind is sharp. Just stay with it. You're injury free. You're good. And so, you know, even for me, I've got to,

you know, rein myself back in and really stay present. And, and, you know, like I am, I'm, I'm terrified, but like, I just started like sweating right now. I'm getting antsy. I'm bouncing in my seat, but you know, I am terrified, but I think that's what makes it an exciting goal. Because, you know, I didn't feel in 2012 when I did the 30 that I really pushed my mind and my body. I honestly believe had there been enough events, I could have done 52. Just one every weekend and i'd have been fine um but but that's that's kind of why we we set out on this this project was i want i want to find out where that where my breaking point is and then what i do when i get

there it's not it's not a matter of that's the holy grail that's that's the gem in the whole experience yeah and it's not necessarily that i i'm looking to be broken or i'm looking for the ultimate failure but but i really want to know what happens when it when it comes to that moment what am i gonna do which road or path am i gonna choose Do I get up or do I walk away from the whole gig? And so I'm actually really looking forward to this being that hard and then finding out what does the cowboy do now? That's what I want to find out. I like how you referred to yourself in the third person.

The. Well, I think you're going to have that moment. Oh, definitely. It's coming. And the interesting approach is, it's this idea of, all right, you're going to go, you're going to do an Ironman today in state X, wherever you are. And you want to go fast enough so that you're not out on the course any longer than you need to be because you want to get rest, but it can't be too casual or slow because then you're cutting into your recovery time, right? So it's always finding that perfect balance of kind of being right on the edge of what's going to be an acceptable pace.

And I think when you talk about competition versus adventure, it's like it's not really – you're on this adventure. You're not racing. You're not pinning it. Like, you know, everybody should be disabused of that idea. Like, it's like, put the distance in, do it efficiently, be economic about it. Don't overextend yourself, but don't sort of underextend yourself either. Yeah, there's a massive tipping point to,

I've gone too fast and I can't recover, or I've gone too slow and now I can't make it to the next state. Right, you've cut into your time. Yeah, we've really toyed with where that balance sits and what's good for us. We're shooting for that 12 to 14-hour range. We think if I'm faster than 12, it's too much much and if i'm slower than 14 it's too long and some of that's going to be terrain driven yeah and weather driven yeah when i was asking help from people in every state i said and if you can flat as possible yeah yeah yeah downhill put

me at the top of a mountain and i'll bike down have you talked to any of the people that have done ram race across america you know i haven't yeah it might be worth like trying to find some Have you talked to any of the people that have done RAM, Race Across America? No, I haven't. Yeah, it might be worth trying to find some of those guys. Because the Ironman guys don't know anything about dealing with sleep deprivation. I don't. It's a completely different animal. Yeah, it's just a one-day event.

I mean, they typically have months between their competitions. Right, right, right. Or maybe even like, do you know who Charlie Engel is? I don't. So he's an ultra runner, but he's one of the guys that ran across the Sahara. Oh, yeah. And so there was that documentary. I don't know if you saw it running in the Sahara.

But they were literally running, I don't know, 40 miles a day on sand dunes. And so for months, they went. So he would be, he's a friend. I should put you in touch with him because he might have some good ideas about like how to kind of mentally approach yeah you know such a long event where you are dealing with the sleep aspect of it because a typical triathlon coach or what they're just they're not versed in that yeah i mean i asked a lot of people and they're like well big gulps i don't know how to help you i don't think that's

a good idea yeah yeah everybody said was like i don't know that i want to put you. I don't think that's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody said was like, I don't know that I want to put my name behind that. Yeah. So how has been, I know that, that, uh, you know, you can't do this alone. You've got to get, you've got these state ambassadors and, you know, your family's on board obviously, and you've got crew support. Um, this is a huge, you know, undertaking, you know, not just sort of physically and emotionally, but also financially, right? You can't do this alone. What kind of support have you been receiving? Yeah, some good, some bad. I mean, we've got some really good sponsors on board right now. We're always looking for a little bit more sponsorships to help us with just hard costs that we have

logistically. But we're fortunate. We've got some, like I said, some great sponsors. Young Living is our main sponsor right now, and they've believed in me for a long time. And they're one of the few companies that have said, you know what, we are 100% behind you, and we think you can do this, which is exciting for me. Right.

Yeah, to have that kind of support. Right, right. It's cool, man. Well, are you doing like a Kickstarter or is there a way for people who can learn more about what you're doing, who are inclined to support, can support you? We really should. You should, yeah. We should.

We've had... Come on, James. You haven't thought this through. When you got the map out with your kids... It was about the kids. Dad, what about the Kickstarter? What about the cash, Dad? My five-year-old's not thinking about that.

He's just thinking about what he's going to do in every state. How many roller coasters he gets to go on. How's that going to work? Is the family going to be able to go do side trips while you're doing this? That's completely the goal.

Their goal is to do whatever the coolest thing is to do in the area that we're going. In each state. In each state. When I'm out on my bike and when I'm out running out, I want to see them. I want them to be just completely enjoying themselves. The kids, my older girls, they really want to ride their bikes with me, um, while I'm running my last portion of the marathon. They love supporting me.

They're definitely my biggest fans. Um, and they want to be a part of that. One of the cool things we're doing, um, is we're doing a 5k at the end of every one of my days. And so that's where the, that's where we really want people to come out and, um, and just, just join me for that. People can join me for any part of it, the swim, the bike, or the run, but we think that anybody can come out and do a 5K, all ages.

Kids, come out and ride your bikes. So you're going to do a 5K after you finish the marathon? No. Or it's the last 5K of the marathon. Yeah, it'll be the last 5K of my marathon. So we'll have a virtual start line that people can come out and run. So when you're super grouchy. Yeah, when I'm at my honor.

Yeah, that's good, man. I'll put on my happy face. I really am a happy-go-lucky guy. Like you said, I have no idea what depths of grumpiness I'm going to hit. Yeah. Well, your wife must be a saint. How does that work with your marriage and family and balance and kind of having that kind of support? I mean, you always hear about, oh, the triathlon widow, the guy who's training for Ironman or the woman.

It can be either way. But suddenly they're gone all the time, and this can impact relationships. I have friends that have gotten divorced. This is a real thing. Yeah, I see it all the time with what I do in coaching, and I always say, hey, before we start coaching, is your wife or husband 100% on board? Because I've seen it with both sides, men and women.

But I am absolutely lucky. My wife's behind it 100%. She does Ironman racing. We do a lot of our training together. In the wintertime in Utah, you do a lot of indoor rides. You do a lot of pool swimming. We go to Masters together. We're fortunate that we've finally reached that point in life where we can leave our kids at home without sitters so we can go work out together. We're going to swim practice. Yeah, we're taking it. Have a good time.

And a lot of times we're up early enough that we can get home. I mean, I get them ready for school every day, and I do my training in the afternoons. My wife happens to be in school full-time right now. She'll graduate right before we leave. Psychology. She needs to deal with a nut jar like me. Yeah, how to deal with me.

I mean, what was the reaction when you came? First of all, what was the impetus for you deciding you wanted to tackle this challenge? What was the epiphany that you had if it was like that? And what was that like when you told your wife, like, I think I want to do this? The initial response was, oh, crap. I thought we were done with this stuff. I thought we were done with this stuff yeah just because it was so so big um but the reality is is you know it didn't take her long at all to come around she knew it was something that i really wanted to do and and i definitely wouldn't be doing it if it if i didn't have her blessing

but we've we've known from the beginning this was kind of the path and the journey that we wanted to go on and everything that we've done was just stepping stones to kind of this coming out party to where we really want to have the impact that we wanted to have in the first two dances but just it didn't turn out that way and so we really feel that everything is kind of coming to a boiling point and we now have this opportunity and and for lack of a better term i'm a little bit more proven now and and people are starting to go oh well maybe maybe he can pull this off and so so we're we're on this journey together um we will both do a big sigh of relief at the end of july um just because we can settle down for a second. Right. Well, I think that, you know, first of all,

what distinguishes it, you know, aside from just the pure, like, you know, gigantic volume of the whole thing, is that it's self-created. Like, you're not doing this in the construct of the WTC Ironman world. So when you're, like, going out and doing all these races, you know, all these WTC races,

and expecting to get, like like sort of coverage or press. It's like, I don't know how much it fits their narrative. And they're so, they have such a, you know, a good, how do I say it? You know, I want to be politic about it. But, you know, they're like, they know what their messaging is, you know what I mean? And what fits that and what doesn't. They're brilliant at marketing what they do. And that's why they have such a strong hold on, on the industry and they handpick their stories. And to be honest, I don't think the WTC likes me

very much. I kind of punch holes in, in what they're all about as far as the single Ironman being the hardest thing on the planet to do. And really, we've set this as like a limiter. Yeah, it really is not really is it to me to me the ironman is just part of a journey and it and i and i and i think there's just so much more beyond it i i heard in one of your podcasts you with dean you were saying you know if you haven't done a 10k do a 10k and then do a half do a half marathon and try a triathlon and all these things and and it doesn't end at ironman i mean there's just so many different really cool events out there um trail running and ultras and these different unique

experiences that that i think it's just people really need to branch out and look at the different kind of things there is to do because it's it really is an exciting world out there and and you know i'm i'm again i shouldn't be scared but i'm doing next weekend i'm doing my first 50k uh-huh and uh nice and i'm a little where are you doing that monument valley oh cool beautiful man so i'm kind of excited but again i shouldn't be terrified about it but it's a new look with the amount of training you're doing it should not you'll be fine yeah but it's a new thing you know it's another kind of extension of pushing that envelope. And when you look at Ironman, to be sure,

it is a transformative experience for thousands of people every year. And it was for you, obviously. And so I'm not discounting how impactful that can be for people's lives. It's certainly an extraordinary thing for anybody to tackle and achieve. Absolutely. I think everybody should venture out and at least try a half or a triathlon or something. It's an experience for everybody. But when you're looking at what are the boundaries of human capability,

it certainly is not even close when you talk about that, especially when 2,500 people every weekend somewhere are like doing it, you know, and, you know, if you put in the training, if you're patient, like you said, and you're willing to put in, you know, the time and the effort, you know, I wouldn't say everybody, but like a good portion of people are capable of crossing that finish line. And for sure, you just have to be committed and follow through on the plan, the well-thought-out plan. Yep, exactly.

So you're here trying to do something no one's ever done before. Has anybody ever tried this? I don't think so, right? There was a guy a couple years ago that tried. He died. He died. Oh, who was that? Jason Phalanx something.

Oh, wow. What happened? Did he get hit by a car or something no i don't know he he started out doing it and i don't know the whole story um he ended up doing one every other day and then tragically just out of the blue passed away oh wow and so his story never kind of got finished um there was also a British guy who was a pretty phenomenal athlete who I think maybe he was just cycling or was he trying to triathlon across the U.S.? He got hit by a car like in Death Valley, like shortly after he started. Recently. Yeah, this was like a couple years ago. Oh, no, there was actually a guy recently that was almost finishing. It was a several-year journey.

He was biking across the entire world oh and just recently was struck by a car and been killed and killed yeah do you remember his name i don't it was it was within the last two months oh wow no i don't know how i didn't know that or hear about that wow yeah the dangers are real you know like you're you're worried about dehydration and exhaustion and and you and sleep deprivation and all these kinds of things. Well, there's all the outside elements that are up to get you. There's all these other things that you can't control. Yeah, for sure.

You can't control. And so hopefully you do the best that you can to make sure that you're safe. But there's – If it's time and it's the act of God, it's time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, kind of... But it's not my time. Well, it's not for you to say, first of all.

It's your time when it's your time, dude. That's true. Well, let's take it back. I mean, I think, you know, some people might be listening to this thinking, well, this guy's been doing this stuff his whole life. Like, this is just a natural progression of, you know, what he's been doing for 20 years. But you really haven't been doing this very long, right? Like you.

No, I haven't. I didn't have a cycling background. I didn't have a swimming background. I taught myself to swim at age 28. And I didn't. I mean, I biked as a kid like most kids do. We bike around the the neighborhood and I I did I did some casual running I did some 10ks with my dad just as for fun and uh but didn't you

know I didn't have a background like that I play sports in high school I wrestled I wrestled full time yeah you look like a wrestler yeah I uh So I wrestled for 11 years and really just focused on that. And I think that got me some good mental toughness preparation. But this, I mean, this stuff's a whole new ball game. Really, it started in 2006, five, four, five. We'll say five. 2005. One of those years.

One of those years in there. You know, my wife just said, hey, let's go do a four-mile fun run. And I was like, I recently moved to the States, and I'm like, oh, four miles? I don't know. That can't be that far. What do you mean you've recently moved to the States? Were you living abroad? I grew up in Canada. Oh, okay. I got you. I think of that. I don't think of that as a different country.

I know. Well, it is kilometers over there and miles over here. I got you. Okay. Right. And so, so I think of that. I don't think of that as a different country. Well, we, it is kilometers over there and miles over here. I was like, oh, four miles can't be that far. And I went out there and I was running the four miles and I just felt horrible. And I look over and, and these women pushing strollers with kids in them and they're passing me and I'm like, man, this isn't right. I'm 28. And, and, and uh you know it was it was on thanksgiving and the rest of the day i kind of ended up coughing and my heart hurt

and i'm like something's wrong like this this isn't a good scenario and uh my wife and as loving as she is she just basically told me i was pathetic and uh signed me up for a marathon and said figure it out start running and uh so it was kind of choice no choice she signed us me up for a marathon and said, figure it out, start running. And so it was kind of choice, no choice. She signed us both up for a marathon. Does she regret that decision now? She may be regretting that decision. Yeah, that was definitely a turning point in the direction that our lives took.

But I did that marathon, and I hated it. I hurt everywhere. I went to some MMA fights that night, and I was sitting in the audience, and my knees swelled up like cantaloupes. They had to carry me out of the stadium. I wasn't going to allow that experience to define me. I made a very conscious decision at that point that I was going to, I didn't have bad knees because of running. I think that happened because I didn't run. And so I started to, you know, really dive in and start running and got into triathlon.

And I started to see my body evolve. I mean, just to interrupt you there for a second, And I started to see my body evolve. I mean, just to interrupt you there for a second, that's like a, excuse me, I got like a bug in my throat, like a weird like crossroads, right? Because somebody else might have said, I don't like how that feels. Like, I'm not doing that, you know. But for you, that discomfort led you to this desire to somehow want to master it as opposed to move away from it yeah what is that about yeah i look around and and other people seem to be happy running and why was i so miserable and i said there's got to be something more to this or i'm doing something wrong um and so you know i just i just dove in and tried to educate myself and and just through trial and error i just found

out that i really enjoyed it and i and i i enjoy cycling the most of the three i'm like i said i taught myself how to swim at age 28 um but yeah it's just it's just evolved over time and uh you know it's but what do you think it is that got activated in you that made you sort of want to push the limits as opposed to just be, you know, like an active dad, right? Like, what is it about you that is different or what came alive in you through the process of doing these races where you have this realization, like, I really want to tap into like a deeper aspect of who I am or, you know, ask myself these questions. What am I capable of? Like, where did that drive emanate from you know i i don't know i think we're either just born with it or we don't but i i it's just that amazing feeling is is

and it's just not for me it wasn't just one one particular event it's just kind of evolved over time and and grown um just into this this thing where i don't know, you've probably experienced it, and maybe that's why I'm trying to do this event, but maybe there is no end. Maybe there is no finite finish line of trying to figure out what that is that you're asking. Can you define what it is that you're trying to answer for yourself? Somebody asked me the other day what I'm running from.

That was an interesting, thought-provoking question for me. I don't know the answer right now. Maybe I'll figure it out on the 50, what'm either running from or towards or or trying to do um I just love it I want to I want to find that breaking point Dave what do you say when people say to you because I'm sure they do like oh you're just you're you're out of balance man like you know why Why are you not spending more time with your kids? What are you trying to prove, man? That's an easy one for me, and anybody that's asking that question absolutely doesn't know me and doesn't know my family. I guarantee you I spend more time with my kids than your average corporate America dad. Um, I absolutely adore my kids.

They're number one in my life. Uh, I, I get the opportunity to drop them off at school every day. I get to pick them up from school every day. Um, I love being at their plays. I love being at their school functions. Um, I'm a very active dad on their lives. And so on the surface, yeah, it looks like it's way whacked out of proportion. Right, like you're this crazy, selfish guy. Yeah, that's one of the biggest perceptions out there. And at first, I had this super soft skin, and I really let it affect me. I was like, no, no, no. And I'd get up on this.

Why, were you getting some hate thrown at you? Well well you know there's always somebody hiding behind a blog whatever like the slow twitch forums or something yeah and they just you know so i don't you know stuff will get set out there and and and you know i've had to just let it roll off my back because the reality is those people don't know me they haven't interviewed my kids you know when it comes right down to it I know who I am, my kids know who I am and you know we're a very tight family unit and

I'm proud to say that I do what I do and I'm proud to be a father first yeah that's a beautiful thing and you know I feel that way with respect to my kids I mean the question that I get you know all the time is oh you just transferred your addiction from one thing to the next. And people, I think what you're doing is provocative. And so what happens is it makes people look at their own lives and reflect on what they either are or are not doing.

And that brings up a lot of stuff, right? So when they say whatever they say, it says a lot more about who they are when they're projecting whatever idea onto you when they don't even know anything about you or who you are. Yeah, and I've learned to not take it personally and be triggered by it.

And one of the cool things that I've learned is it's their issue. And they need to figure out how to deal with that and whatever it is for them. And I hope it gives them an opportunity to have some self-reflection on what they're doing. I don't allow it to affect me anymore. Well, you can't, man. It'll derail you. It will derail you.

You don't have room for any kind of doubt. You've got to go into this completely believing and so how do you mentally kind of prepare for you know what's to come like do you have a specific routine where you do some visualization or is there anything specific yeah it's actually interesting visualization is you know some people think it's gimmicky or hokey or whatnot but it's unbelievable. I've actually started, because I created all of the maps online, I will go through and I've started to go through each course as they're on the Google Earth. And I visualize myself going through each and actual specific courses.

And I'm starting already to cross the finish lines and knock them off. And so by the time I hit the start line, I'll have already finished all 50. That's the way it has to be. Yeah. And what's cool, too, is that you've kind of merged. This is now your profession. Your passion has become your profession, which is really like, I wish that

upon anybody, whatever your passion is, if you can find a way to make a living doing it. And I would imagine that there's been struggle and toil to get to this place. But what were you doing before? I mean, did you think that you would be coaching and speaking, doing the things that you're doing now? No, I had no idea. but I knew what I was doing was not serving me at all. I owned a mortgage company and we were doing fantastic. We had houses and money and everything that we wanted and the future was totally bright, but I was miserable. I hated going to the office every day and looking at these numbers and dealing with the banks. And it just, it just wasn't, I wasn't happy. And when the economy crashed in 2008,

it hit us as hard as it hit anybody else. And we literally lost everything. And we took that not as a negative, because had that not happened, I would probably still be miserable doing mortgages. But because we lost our homes, our cars and everything during those years, it allowed us to take some risks and take some challenges and, and take them head on. And I really think that, you know, it's, it's the old saying, a door closes, another one opens, right? Well, a dump truck landed on us and, you know, it's the old saying, a door closes, another one opens. Well, a dump truck landed on us, and, you know, we crawled out from underneath it, and we are happier now on the journey that we're on than we ever were with all of those things

that we had, just because we're following, well, I'm following my heart, my passions, my desires, and, you know, we're broke, but we're so frigging happy. I love that. You know, Julie, my wife calls it your divine moment. And she always says, don't deprive somebody of their divine moment. Like if somebody's like hitting that bottom, having their own personal version of that kind of crisis, that is fertile ground for transformation. And the instinct, the sort of compassionate human instinct is to try to come in and make it better for somebody or to like, you know, sort of soften that blow. But that blow can be, you know, the, the, the, you know, the, the rock that sharpens the knife for whatever the future, you know, may hold this

beautiful, like sort of blossoming phoenix that allowed you to step into being somebody completely different that you couldn't have predicted. It's amazing. Yeah, it brought myself and my wife much closer together, which we're super grateful for. And right now I look around and I've got a couple friends that are in the same situation that I was five years ago.

And I haven't said this to them, and I won't a couple friends that are like they're in the same situation that I was five years ago and I'm like I haven't said this to them and I won't say who they are but I have I'm like right on like you're about to experience something amazing and you don't know it and I can't tell you this but but what you're going through and I'm so glad you're at rock bottom because what's coming around the corner if you just hang in there you know you're gonna it's it's on the up and up. And so I haven't said anything to them, and I won't, just because they're not in a position where it happens. But I'm like, dude, I'm so stoked for you because you're there. You're at the bottom. And now you're going to make those turns.

And hopefully that they have enough insight to grow and have the experiences and learn from that and come out on the other side like we have and just start enjoying the real joys of life. Right. I mean, kind of how I approach people that I see that are in that situation is like, first, it's going to be okay. It doesn't look like it, but I'm telling you it's going to be okay. And second, like honor this moment. It's very powerful. And second, like honor this moment.

It's very powerful. And if you treat it right, it could be, you know, this massive sort of awakening for you. It can pass too. And you can go back, find some other job that's a different version of whatever you were doing before that made you unhappy. Because that's the sort of safe thing to do. Like when fear kicks in, it's like, you know, that instinct for security and everything can commandeer you back into the position you were in before. And that's what most people do, to be honest. You know what I mean?

It comes down to not learning the lessons you're supposed to learn along the way. Right. Because the same crap is going to keep happening to you until you really pay attention, start to be present, and learn those lessons that you're supposed to learn. It's interesting because if you look at the people 20 years ago that were miserable and they're still miserable today, and they've changed jobs 20 times, but they keep doing the same thing and they haven't learned that lesson in order for them to get over that. We all have to go through life, and we all have to go on this journey. And we can either learn the lessons as quick as quickly as we can

and get to the next one and really progress and grow and learn or we can keep making the exact same mistakes and doing the exact same things and you know you see it in a pattern and and you hope when those you know buddies of yours that they're at rock bottom you hope that they learn those lessons right and start to rise up yeah i think it was einstein that said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Exactly. So what is the, you know, when you go and you speak to groups,

because I know you do that, and through this amazing event that you're tackling, what is the message? What are you trying to get across to people? One of the biggest things I talk about is that no goal is too big. And then just the whole bit about uh having enough conviction and belief because that was one of the biggest things for me is is not knowing how it was going to how it was going to shake out but just believing in the path and following your heart um because that's what i think a lot of

people don't do is they don't take that risk and they just get stuck in that grind. And like we just talked about those lessons that they don't learn. And really it's about following your passions and following your heart, not knowing. But if the conviction's there and you're on your way, then it's a good thing. Right. So with the people that you meet and the athletes that you coach, I mean, what do you think some of the biggest mistakes or misunderstandings people have about, um, whether it's Ironman or just triathlon or, or getting fit or setting goals? Like, what do you kind of see consistently that you try to rectify in the people you

work with? Just consistency. Just consistency. People expect to do something wrong for 20 years and expect instant gratification results now. And so one of the biggest things that I'm a huge proponent of is we have to do consistent behavior over a long period of time in order to see that change. One of the things I like to say is you can't outwork a bad diet. My wife's a perfect example, and I love her to death, but nobody works out harder than my wife,

year-round. And whether she either loses weight and is fit or she carries that extra 10 pounds. But it's not because of lack of effort. It has everything to do with her eating. And I think that's one of the biggest things with my athletes that they don't understand is if you're going to change one thing, it's what you consume and you eat. It's not the activity levels. Don't go to the gym. Save that time. If you hate doing that, I mean, it's what you consume and you eat. It's not the activity levels. Don't go to the gym. Save that time.

If you hate doing that, I mean, if you can do both, great. But if you just have to do one, focus on what you're eating. And that's one of our big messages going forward is we're focusing on eating real foods. One of the phrases my wife loves to use is, because people ask us all the time, well, what do you eat and how do you guys eat? And it's a huge topic of conversation. And one of her favorite things to say is she's like, it's easy, it's Jesus foods.

And what she means by that is, if it's put on the earth, eat it, right? Because people freak out about, don't eat fruit, it has sugar in it, or don't eat this. But what they don't eat fruit it has sugar in it right or don't eat this because but but what they don't understand is the sugar and fruit is balanced with fibers and other things that are in the fruit it's not just yeah i saw i saw a hilarious article the other day where a guy was like let's break down a fruit and this ding dong and it's got the exact same ingredient of

sugar and i'm just like a calorie is not a calorie a sugar is not a sugar it's the way that it's makeup right and so eat jesus foods but that's just a you know a fun thing that we like to say yeah i mean i i can't get i'm not down with like the no fruit thing or the you know fruit's just the same as any kind of sugar like i don't i don't i don't buy that i don't believe that for a second um and yeah whole foods that's great i mean i think that um you know i was looking at i think it was one of your videos where you were talking about the obesity crisis. And, you know, certainly that's a subject that I'm between paleo and vegan, sort of like these really fine, the finer points, the finer aspects of what it means to have the optimal diet. Meanwhile, most people are eating like crap all over the planet. And we have, when you look at

the statistics, we're talking about the wrong things. It's like one out of every three Americans is going to die of a heart attack. One out of every two is going to suffer some form of heart disease. By 2030, 50% of Americans are going to be diabetic or pre-diabetic. The obesity rates are insane. It's like, what is it, 70% of people are overweight or obese? And the childhood obesity rates, it's like, what are we talking about here? The scariest one for me is that we're the first generation ever that our kids are slated to die before the parents are. I've got five kids. I don't want to bury any of them. And I wouldn't want any parent to have that experience. And we're at that point now where this generation,

the parents are going to outlive the kids because of the epidemic that's currently going on. And really, and you're a huge proponent of this, that it starts with educating the parents. Because I've always said that kids are a product of their environment. And for me, it breaks my heart to see these kids that are being raised and no fault of their own. They just don't know. And really, it's just an education component that people just don't know. It's the big food companies that are

putting out this just massive marketing effort that is misdriven. Well, all you have to do is go to a typical grocery store and count the number of packaged processed foods versus whole foods, and it's laughable, right? So what does that mean? Well, that means that consumers are on some level, some like implicit kind of like unconscious level deprived of choice because when you have all the whole foods relegated far to the very sort of Siberian side of the grocery store and there's no fancy packaging that is telling – sort of luring you with sort of Siberian side of the grocery store. And, and there's no fancy packaging that is telling, you know, sort of luring you with, you know, sort of mental tricks and psychology to get you to pick that food. You know, how sentient are we in the choices that we're making? And, you know, look, all you have to do is look at the statistics, you can tell what's really going

on here. And if we want to change, it starts with with uh we have to we have to walk our talk and it starts with the parents like when we look at our kids like they're not going to do something you're not doing like you got to do it yourself yeah and that requires like getting out of your comfort zone and some behavior modification and everybody wants like the diet that lets them eat bacon for breakfast every morning or whatever they want the good news about their bad habits. But the truth is, like, you got to get real, man, if you want real change. And we're at a crisis point. And so what are we doing with respect to what we're saying to our children?

Yeah, it comes down to, you know, I love Jamie Kennedy's message about getting back to home cooking and cooking back in the home and that taking place and having a sit-down meal. Kids nowadays, they're so quick to do the fast food thing, and busy moms and dads. We're in a society now where mom and dad are both working, and kids have after school and all of these things and it's everybody's super tired at the end of the day and well look at the choices they're given at school yeah i mean i saw a phenomenal blog post the other day of the different countries i don't know if you saw the what the school lunch was in japan and what the school lunch was in new zealand and what the school lunch was you know in country x and then what ours was. And it was insane to compare what the rest of the world is doing compared to ours. And that's possibly unfair. They may have chosen all the really good choices and compared it against ours.

I doubt it, though. I doubt it, too. It's a total reality. My wife came home the other day from school, and she said, I had to bite my tongue in class today. This is what's being taught in the school system. The teacher was talking about healthy choices and eating, and she was like, you know, we want to stay away from nuts

because they are really high in fat, and we want to do this and that. And she was just like, I'm not going to get into this debate with the professor. But that's what's being taught at a university level is fat is bad. And that's not even close to, as you know, what reality is and what the real main focusing point. But that teacher at a university level has bought into the marketing of the mass market. And it's unfortunate that that's what the messaging has come to. And which is why, you know, someone like yourself is so, you know, important to have on this earth because your messaging and your persistence and your consistency is phenomenal.

And people just really need to get back to those grassroots. I mean, and that's what you're all about is just really honing in on, you know, where we came from and what we should be eating. And you're a perfect example of where you came from to where you are today. It's all been food choices. I mean, that's the biggest change that you made was the way that you eat and what you consumed. And that's what America needs to focus on and the small changes that need to start to be implemented. Yeah, thank you. Well, thank you for those kind words. But it is, it's about consistency and persistence.

I love both those words. And it harkens back to the kind of edict that you give the athletes that you work with, which is you can't train your way out of a lousy diet. And it's true. For me, it all began with changing my diet. I didn't start working out and then figure out a diet that would serve that. It was changing my diet, which revitalized me and even gave me the interest or the energy sufficient to even, you know, get outdoors and do anything. So that's

what it's about. You have to start there. Well, it's that whole mindset shift of of preventative to you know trying to solve the problem afterwards yeah you know you've heard of said before and it's probably super controversial that we have the cure for cancer not all of them but we have a massive cure for heart disease diabetes and cancer and it's all in the foods that we eat and you can believe it or not but it's reality i mean we have that cure in front of us, but people are so focused on the after effects and figuring out how to solve it after it's happened. It's sitting right in front of us, man.

And it's just, like I said, we need more guys like you that's really pushing this movement. Well, it's definitely, when you start talking about cancer, people get crazy. Absolutely crazy about it. Definitely it's controversial, but there's no question that when we look at our water supply and our food supply and even our personal grooming products and the air that we breathe and the cell phone that we hold to our ear, the level of toxins, and I know that's controversial too, like what what do you mean toxins or whatever? But like, you know, when you rub lotion on your skin or put shampoo in your hair, there are chemicals in that.

And your skin is an organ that absorbs a lot of that stuff. And, you know, the sort of, you know, chemicals and processing that goes into your food and you're imbibing that and all this sort of stuff is like creating this level of, you know, I don't know, how do I say it? Like your body has to figure out a way to like, you know, manage and metabolize all of this stuff. And so we're shocked when we get sick and then we take a pill to, you know, kind of alleviate the symptoms. But we don't actually ask ourselves what caused this and how can we, you know, modify our behavior to rectify it. Let's just medicate ourselves, and then we have to take the medication to deal with the side effects of that medication, and then we're in this crazy, insane cycle.

And we've all sort of signed up for this, and it's freaking unbelievable. Well, modern medicine has its place, definitely. Especially in the acute context. For sure. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. Yeah, For sure. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. Yeah, for sure. But we need to change the conversation or refocus the conversation on prevention.

It's hard to make money in that. That's why it's not happening like it should be. You're absolutely right. And that's one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to do something that was nationwide, that was crazy or stupid enough, that would get people to look at it and maybe change or have that effect on a few people. I know that the industry that we do and that we love is very small. We're not in the nfl we're not you know we don't have these massive stages to to perform on um but it's all about ripple effect

and and if we can you know just like you said be consistent and and keep that message going hopefully that enough enough people get it and then it just passes on and kind of the pay it forward type thing consistency will affect will affect some people oh there's no question consistency and persistence yeah that's that's uh those are those are ideas that are not sexy but that's what moves mountains you know especially and it's so relevant in the endurance world because you know if you want to prepare like it's just every day you get up it's like what's your workout well a lot of times it's the same boring workout. It's just wax on, wax off, day after day after day after day. But that's how you really create change, and that's how you accomplish goals.

It's when no one's looking, and you're waking up early, and it's not sexy or fun, and it's not about some crazy workout that you can post on Instagram and have everybody excited about. It's just the get it done, get it done, get it done. Probably one of the questions that you've been asked many times is how you do what you do. And people look at what I do and what I'm doing and they say, well, how do you do what you do? And my answer is easy. It's the little things that I do every day it's not i don't i don't have a magic bullet i don't have a you know i do i do the things that are boring i do the

things that are uncomfortable you know it's just the same things you wake up and you do i mean you probably have a very strict routine that you adhere to every every day. People would go, I'm bored with this. This is stupid. But it's those little, small, tangible things that you do over a consistent period of time that allow you to do just these gigantic tasks that people tell us on a daily basis are impossible. It's structure, but that structure also has to meet with a plausible level of flexibility, especially when you have kids and you're in a family and all of that. Like, you know, yeah, I love structure. Like if I lived in a cabin by myself, like I would adhere to an extremely strict, like sort of stoic structure because I like that.

You know, I thrive in that. But, you know, I'm a dad like you. And there's other things in my life. I'm doing lots of different things. So, you know, I wake up and I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to be doing this. And then I have to adjust because, you know, Mathis broke her wrist, that hockey practice. And I have to go pick her up and take her, you know, like things happen. Life is in session. So you have to be able to flow with that and be cool with that and not let that be so disruptive that it derails everything. You know, one of the one of the things that i like to talk about is um be a b plus average just nail a b plus one of the one of the biggest things that i

see that people set themselves up for failure is they'll they they just shoot for this a plus out of this world i'm gonna nail it and then they do that and as soon as they they miss one portion of that a plus attitude or journey it turns into an f for six months or they just give up they just yeah they give up so they go they do this they do this a plus for two months and then an f for six months and to me that's way more destructive than just you know like what you said is, is adjusting to the flows of the life. And if you can just be a B plus all the time, you're gonna, you're gonna be so far ahead in the big picture. Then if you try to do this, A plus F, A plus F, A plus F. And for me, that, that's just a, a good, a game plan for me is, is look, i'm not i'm not nobody's perfect nobody's perfect

and and and we can strive for that but what you can't do in the way to set yourself up for failure is to to just fall off the map and like you said eventually quit and then now you're an f all the time right like your guy who said oh you know he couldn't do that one workout and he said i'm not there's no way i can do an iron man or the person who says i'm gonna go i'm gonna adopt'm going to adopt this diet, whether it's a vegan diet or whatever it is. And two weeks in, they make a mistake and they go, well, that was too hard. And then they're just back to doing whatever they're doing. The F, you know, as opposed to the B, which is the 85 or 90% of, you know, being perfect. I've got this one buddy that struggled, and not massive weight, but 20, 30 pounds.

And he's been a good friend for 10, 14, you know, a long time. And every time he tries to do this, like, the newest fad diet that's, like, super strict. And every time he fails. the newest fad diet that's like super strict, and every time he fails. And I said to him the other day, I said, just imagine where you'd be if for the past 10 years you would have just been even keel, where that would have brought you to. And he was like, you know what, you're right. And for the past year now, he's been a B-plus average. He's dropped the weight, and he's as happy as he's been.

And so it was amazing to watch him firsthand be that person who does that A plus S, A plus F. And then just to have that mental shift and finally get it to where he's like, okay, I'm going to be consistent and I'm just going to stick with it. Right. It's a weird kind of dichotomy because from an outsider looking in on your life or someone who's living a life like yours, it looks very extreme. It looks very unbalanced, right? But what you're preaching is actually like a pretty balanced, sustainable approach to diet and life, consistency, you know, these little actions taken day after day

that turn you into something very different, you know, a year, two years, five years down the line. So when you break it down like that, it doesn't seem extreme. It seems rational, which is kind of a weird, it kind of inverts that idea of what it means to be like an ultra endurance athlete. Everything in life is perception. I've been in a room where I've watched the two people experience the same thing and then have them tell the stories to two different parties. And it was amazing how different that experience was for both of them. And, and, and just going through life and meeting all these people, everything is perception. And if we have, uh, you know, the right mindset going forward

with the things that we do in the experience that we have, it can be totally different outcome depending on our perception of it. And so I've stopped allowing people to affect me, like you were saying, because I know that that's just their perception of what's going on. It doesn't mean it's reality. It's their perception. And I've learned to not allow their perception to affect my reality, whether they think I'm out of balance or not. Right. So what's your Achilles heel?

Like if you have to identify, what's your biggest weakness going into the 50-50-50? 50-50-50-50-50-50. 50-50-50. We need 50 cents to do a song. Yeah, you do, right? If you know that guy, give him a call.

I don't know. I don't know. I wish I did. We're really white. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like what do you think is your biggest limiter? I think it's going to be my stomach. I think it's going to be my stomach.

I've got an iron gut, but there's just that unknown of what it's going to do 50 consecutive days. Just that overwhelming fatigue. Mentally, I know I got this. And I have to have that attitude or it's not even like you don't even start. And so mentally, there's no plan B. It's 50 Ironmans. My limiter is going to be if I'm so concerned about my wife and my kids having a good time that I want to make sure that I think it's going to be really hard for me to switch on and off to, okay, are they good? Right.

Are they happy? Am I being a dad? Or am, are they good? Right. Are they happy? Am I being a dad? Or am I just doing this, right? And so it's that fine balance between the two. Do you have that thing where you're out on a long, like maybe it's one of your super long training days, and you're like, I should be at the park with my kids. Yeah. You know, like why aren't I doing that?

Am I like off the game? Am I doing more't I doing that? Am I not on my game? Am I getting a B-plus and being a dad today, or am I missing the mark? Well, we have a sign up in our home that says, no success can account for failure in the home. And I think that's a great mantra for me to keep in mind and keep me in check. They're everything to me. And if I ever get that out of balance, my friends will tell you that my wife's as blunt and honest as they come, and she'll be the first one to put my ass in check. That's good, because it's not worth it. It's not worth it if that's the price that you're paying,

because then it becomes a selfish endeavor, you know? Even— So what are you really doing? Yeah, even as recently as two weeks ago, I was in the kitchen with my wife, and I said, is this something we still want to do? I mean, we're 90 days out. You know, come Sunday, we're 90 days out. And I said, is this something you still want to do?

Are we still are we still good and and if and if had she said you know what i you know we need to really consider not doing this i i would have really considered it um and and and and i'm still open to that discussion too i'm not you know if it came to the point where she said it's me or the project she never would but if she said it's me or the project you know project, I would say, okay, let's talk about it. And let's write down the pros and the cons and what it is. Yeah, I hope that people understand that I have that perspective, that I respect the process and what I'm doing. But like I said, Sunny's an amazing woman. And she gets the bigger picture of what we're trying to do.

Our goal, she loves kids. I love my kids. She loves all kids. And her big dream is to, the reason she loves this degree and the field that she's in is because she wants to work with kids. She has an amazing personality and ability to work with kids and be passionate with them and, and has a great understanding for that, that age group. Um, and, and her goal and my goal and, and kind of our passion that we want to do together is to start a foundation to where we can take these kids that, you know, that, you know, the statistic, the, the overweight and obese kids, they're, they're typically a demographic that's less fortunate. Um, and we want to be

able to give those kids an opportunity and send them to camps and scholarships and do things to give them that outlet. And so she also sees this journey as getting us one step closer to be able to have that impact and create that foundation. I love that. That's beautiful, man. Thanks. So we've got to wrap it up here in a minute, but I want to know, like, take me through a

typical day in the life, training, kids, balance. Like for me, balance is, that's what I'm always chasing, you know, sort of, um, the extreme, the, the balance in the macro with the extremes in the micro. Like I may go on a long, do some crazy, whatever, but like, it all has to make sense in terms of the overall balance of family, profession, you know, mental, emotional, spiritual, physical, everything has to kind of be well oiled. So I'm interested in how you make all those pieces work day to day, like the day, like wake up in the morning. What does it look like? Yeah. So quick day for, for me, um, for sure, three days out of the week, we're going to Masters. We're in the pool at 530.

And it's interesting, two of my girls have started to want to come to that swim class. Oh, wow. To Masters with us. And they won't swim in our lane, but they get up and they're so excited. They're down in the front room with their swimsuits ready and everything. So a couple days a week they're coming to the swim classes. So for a typical day for my wife and I, we'll wake up. She's an early riser.

I've always resisted it, but she'll get up at 4, and I'll get up at the latest I can to get ready. And I don't do very much. So we'll go to a pool or we'll do an early bike session. Right now I've got a barn on our property that we've called the shred shed and now we've got all our trainers set up in there and we do some some weight lifting so a typical day is is we'll wake up and we'll do an early morning workout my wife will get all of her workout done in the morning she hates doing anything later um i make sure that my working

out is done by 8 30 and i get home um I always make breakfast for the kids. They love dad's homemade hash browns. And I make a mean scrambled egg. And then I make it a point that I take them to school every morning. You never know when it's my turn, their turn to go or whatever. So five, all in elementary school? Yep. What are the ages? So five, seven, eight, 11, and 12. Oh, man, you just packed it all in.

Kindergarten through sixth grade. You could have your own elementary school. Yeah, basketball team. So I make it a point every day that I want to see them off to school. Both my wife and I, we always see the kids before they go to school. I'll drive them. My wife will go to school. Actually, my youngest son is in preschool. And so Monday, Wednesday, Friday, he goes. So Tuesday and Thursday, he pals around with dad, any meetings that I have. And then I plan all of my long training or anything when

they're at school. So it doesn't affect them um i'll typically that's a gift of being able to merge your passion with your profession yeah and that was one of the things that has made me the happiest is because it's allowed me to do my passion but not impact the time i have with my kids um and if there's an activity um a school presentation both my oldest girls are all in drama um're in choir and their schools are very active tops of their class and I love going to their stuff and I have that opportunity and so so a day for me will consist of for sure two sometimes three workouts in a day for sure two to three breakfasts a day that's my biggest meal um and then i always pick my kids up i pick

my kids up at 3 30 um i do a lot of stuff on my computer as of late we've been designing all of the courses um just a ton of logistics goes into this project and and trying to get sponsors on board and getting people to help us and doing work with the foundation um and one of the things that i try to do in the stay present is I only have one son, and he's my youngest, and he'll come in and he'll go, Dad, let's build this Lego or let's wrestle. And it's always hard for me, but I check myself, and I'll always go with him and take five.

He just needs five minutes, right? And that means the world to him, and I always end up enjoying it. And then I get right back to work and and do it um and then my wife unbelievable come home come comes home from school and we'll cook dinner and and we try to have uh dinner as a family right and then i just get into the evening and hang out yeah yeah we're it's funny because my kids my two oldest girls were typically in bed before they are. Yeah, that's the way it is with our girls. We always go to bed before them.

I can't get them to go to bed before. Yeah, we've told them they have a bedtime, and they're great kids, and we trust them. But we turn off all the electronics, and they have to plug them in downstairs, and we let them go upstairs, and they can read and do whatever in quiet time. But they know that mom and dad are going to bed at 8 30 and our day's over because we start early and training's about what like 30 hours a week now i would imagine something like that yeah we're up to 32 we're up to 32 hours a week and obviously that goes up and down depending on what we're doing and that's a we probably won't get above 40 in a week.

Once we hit it. You start to get diminishing returns. Yeah, exactly. We've talked about tipping points, and that's definitely one of them. How much damage are you doing to how much benefit you're getting? How ready can you actually get to do something like this? Where's that balance? And are you training with power meter and heart rate and all of that? Or how do you, what's? I'm a, I'm a, I love power.

Some people are against it, but I, yeah, I have, I have combat trainer. I have a cork power meter. I have all of it. I watch my power religiously. I use, I use heart rate as a secondary form of feedback. To me, it has so many outside influencers. A lot of variables with that. Tons of variables with tons of

variables mood temperature proximity to food digestion um there's just i use it as just a secondary kind of oh we're out of we're out of whack well when you're i mean on the bike the the relation the ratio of heart rate to power can be very revealing especially if you're overtraining or you're slept enough when you when because you know like oh well i know when i'm pushing these watts that my heart's usually around here but if it's super low or super high then there's something off right yeah like uh we did a big training camp the other day and or the other week and i was sitting there and i'd been done working out for hours and i was literally laying laying on the couch and i took my heart and i was like whoa that's that's out of whack for me um and i literally laying on the couch and I took my heart rate and I was like,

whoa, that's out of whack for me. And I had a conversation with my coach and he's like, okay, we're on that border of overtraining you right now. We need to back it off a little bit. And so I use heart rate for those purposes. But when I'm training, I try to focus more on power and pace just because those are unbiased forms of feedback um yeah i love i love power uh you geeking out on it i i'll i'll back off with the power that's one of the only things that i i'm not training peaks is that your is that your jam yeah i do i do you post up on strava too or no um i have a strava uh i upload into training peaks and it shoots it over to strava so stuff's posted on there but but I don't really look at it. Are you like Iron Cowboy James there?

Yeah, I am. You are. You're Iron Cowboy James across the board? Yeah. All the social media, right? All right. Well, let's lock it down. But let's close it with maybe some helpful tips or inspiration for somebody who's listening to this

and is maybe starting to rethink their own ceiling, you know, like they're inspired, like, wow, this guy's going to do this crazy thing. You know, maybe I can do something too. Like, what kind of wisdom or tips can you leave somebody with? Yeah. Other than the amazing tips we've talked about today. Everything we have. Disregard the last hour and a half. You know, it's all about just starting. And that's one of the biggest things that people need to overcome is that initial fear of starting. And trust me, it's going to be okay. The reality is rock bottom isn't that bad. I've been there and it can absolutely

be a blessing. But starting... It allows you to understand like, well, if this is as bad as it's going to get, like I can still be okay. Yep. Just starting and taking one day at a time. You know, we've talked a lot about just being consistent. I don't know exactly what the quote is, but you could be literally one day, one second, one turn from reaching that goal, and then you quit and walk back down the mountain. And so really, we've talked it again and again

about being that consistent behavior. And so just start you know, just we've talked it again and again about being that consistent behavior. And so just start and be consistent. And if that's all you do is starting and being consistent, then you're well on your way to something. Whatever greatness is to you. Stay in the game. Yeah, you're on your way to staying in the game. If you're out of the game, you can't do anything. You can't have any influence.

You can't have any impact. You can't touch any people. You can't have any impact. You can't touch any people. You can't do anything. And you've got to, I always say, you know, be a little bit selfish. Take care of number one because as soon as number one's in check, then you can have the ability to take care and help other people. Yeah, a lot of people struggle with that. They think that's selfish.

But you can't take care of anyone else if you're not tending to yourself. Yeah, you've got to make sure you're in check and you're balanced because if those two things aren't going on, you're going to be completely useless out there and you're not going to have any impact. And, and so, yeah, you, you've got to, you've got to be somewhat grounded and, and always, you know, you're, everybody's always on a journey and I'm on a journey. I'm always learning.

I'm trying to grow. But, um, you, I guess, I guess I'm selfish that I try to better myself because if I'm not where I need to be, I'm going to be completely useless to anybody else, especially my wife and kids. Right. All right, man. The Iron Cowboy going 10x on the Epic Five with the 50-50-50. It kicks off June 6th. 6th? Wow, man.

Kauai, Hawaii. Oh, you're going to do it in Kauai? Yeah. Interesting. Interesting choice. I know that all along. I think Kona's ugly. You didn't want to just do it on the Ironman course?

No, I did it last year. I did the actual World Championships last year, and it wasn't my favorite course. I think Kauai's a prettier island, and we're going to go out as a family a week before, and I want them to see the beauty of Kauai is a prettier island and we're going to go out as a family week before and I want them to see the beauty of Kauai. It's definitely better for the family. Beautiful island. You got to watch the drivers there big time and the roads can get wet and slick. There's a lot of stuff on the roads. So the cycling part, especially when you get to like the kind of the north end of the island, it's real wet.

So, but that's awesome, man. especially when you get to like the kind of the north end of the island it's real wet so okay but that's awesome man yeah yeah so we kick off kick off june 6th and the final race will be on july 25th in utah in utah so so hawaii alaska then washington oregon california california are you gonna let me to come and and and run a ride a little bit with you in california absolutely you coming down through here or what where are you doing it in California? Santa Cruz. Oh, you are? Yeah, because we had to come deep enough down that would allow us to go that deep

and then enough to get us across to Nevada. Because then we go to Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, and then keep going. Well, it would be cool to be able to log a few miles with you, man. I would love it. And are you going to do, you're going through, DC's not a state. Maryland. You're going to do Maryland? We're going to do Maryland.

So you're going to loop, you're going to come down, like the general kind of loop is you're going to come down and then you're going to cut, where are you cutting east? In the south or in the north? We go California, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, and then we kind of zigzag up and down into the south. We'll dip right down into Florida and then head right up the east coast

before coming back along the top. Oh, so you come back along the north, come west along the north. Yeah, so we'll go, you know, we'll finish up North and South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah, drop back down. And are you going to be filming this thing? Please tell me you've got a documentary crew coming with you.

We already have a documentary crew. Nice. And for people that want to follow online, are you going to be able to be updating your site with information or videos or social media? How's all that going to work for people that want to tap in? Yeah, so the main website is ironcowboy.co, C-O. And then all the social media links are there the blog is also on there we're going to be doing uh we'll have a live tracker so you'll be able to see exactly where i am how fast i'm moving what my progress is what

my heart rate is like gps geo tracker on you yeah we'll have everything so people know exactly where i am and we said it before but i want people to come join me i definitely don't want to do 50 ironmans by myself and so we want tri groups we want cycling clubs we want running clubs we want people to come come and join us and coming to the website soon we're going to have a registration link for people to be able to register and join us and all of that money goes to the to the charity that's that's the way we're going to raise the money and the charity is uh quietway.org we're going to be including a new component to the charity. That's the way we're going to raise the money. And the charity is? Quietway.org. We're going to be including a new component to the charity

that focuses on the childhood obesity scholarships and getting that education out there. I love it, man. Yeah, I'm excited. Good luck, dude. Terrified, but excited. Yeah, well, good luck. Rock it out and be safe, man.

Thanks, brother. And thanks for dropping by before you do it, man. I'm super psyched for you. I can't wait to watch this unfold. There's going to be high highs. rock it out and be safe man thanks brother and thanks for dropping by before you do it man i'm super psyched for you i can't wait to watch this unfold there's going to be high highs i'm no doubt there's going to be low lows you will meet your maker but i'm pretty confident you're going to come out the other side man and i'm pretty psyched for you it's very very cool awesome man thanks richard legend thanks man so if you're digging on uh james and you want to follow him online it's it's at iron cowboy james on instagram and twitter yeah and uh you're digging on James and you want to follow him online, it's at IronCowboyJames on Instagram and Twitter.

Yeah. And you're on Facebook and all those kind of places, right? Yeah. And your website is IronCowboyJames.com. That's your main personal one? IronCowboy.co. Oh, okay. That's the one you want everyone to go to.

Right on, man. Are you going to go train now? I am. What are you going to do? I got a second run and a three-hour ride. Where are you going? I'm going to go back to the coast, man. This place is beautiful.

Yeah? You might want to hit some of these trails. I'll tell you where to go. Oh, yeah. Cool. Where are you going? I'm going to go back to the coast, man. This place is beautiful. Yeah? You might want to hit some of these trails. I'll tell you where to go. Oh, yeah, cool. When are you going back home? Tomorrow morning. Tomorrow? Yeah.

You got to pack it in before you go back and freeze. That's good. Yeah. All right, man. Peace. Thank you. Plants. All right, you guys.

I hope you dug the Iron Cowboy. Let's throw him some love on social media. He's at Iron Cowboy James on Twitter and Instagram, and he's on Facebook at facebook.com forward slash Iron Cowboy. And if you go to his website, you can find the schedule. He's updated it since we sat down for this interview, and he's got a really cool site. Anyway, let me know what you thought of this episode

in the comments section on the episode page at richroll.com. And don't forget our new cookbook and lifestyle guide, The Plant Power Way is now out. People are digging it. The reviews are in. So excited and so appreciative of everybody who's sharing their passion for the book by giving out recipes, showing pictures of the food that they're enjoying and et cetera. It really warms my heart. And we got a little bit of big news about the book that I wanted to share with you guys. So Costco has agreed to sell the book in a pilot program in two stores in San Diego. This is huge because it means if it goes well, Costco will expand it. So in a few weeks, they're going to offer it in Carlsbad and Merino.

These are two places that are near San Diego. I'll let you know when they're available on the shelf. But it would be great if we could foment a little demand and excitement at these stores, because like I said, if it goes well, they'll expand it into more stores. And that would literally be huge for the movement, because Costco's reach is extraordinary. They really are the portal of the mainstream. And this is an amazing opportunity for all of us collectively to help kind of push this plant-based notion, this plant-based lifestyle into the mainstream consciousness. So it's a lot more than just our book and our self-interest.

Anyway, in the meantime, you can pick up the book at your favorite book retailer. We encourage everybody to go to your local independent bookseller and also to tell your librarian. If it's not available in your local library, tell your librarian, they'll order it. And that way people that can't afford it or haven't heard of it, but who like going to the library can check it out and then we can all share it together. If you haven't given us a review on iTunes, we would appreciate it if you took a quick minute and throw one up there. That's great. Thank you, everybody who's done that. And again, thanks for all the love for sharing the podcast for using the Amazon banner at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. Send us your questions for future Q&A podcasts to

info at richroll.com. We're going to be doing more of these. For all the information, education, products, tools, resources, and inspiration you need to take your health, your wellness, your fitness, and self-actualization to the next level, go to richroll.com, check out our nutritional products, check out our education products, and yes, check out our garments, all made with 100% organic cotton. We got some cool new garments coming out soon that I'm pretty excited about that we're going to be making announcements about in the coming weeks. Check out my online courses at mindbodygreen.com, The Art of Living with Purpose and The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition.

Both multiple hours of streaming video content, online communities, all kinds of good stuff. Really proud of those courses. And thank you again for supporting the show by telling a friend and sharing it on social media. I'll see you guys soon. Make it a great week. Signing off from Sun Valley, Idaho. Peace. Plants. you