The Rich Roll Podcast - Amanda Chantal Bacon On Self-Care, Building A Wellness Empire & Surviving Controversy

Episode Date: September 11, 2017

What do you become when your mom is the CEO of a prestigious fashion empire and your dad is a musician accompanying notorious acts like Billy Idol and the art punk group Suicide? You alchemize that business savvy with artistry. And pivot. Such is the tale of plant alchemist and holistic heroine Amanda Chantal Bacon – a wellness entrepreneur committed to the idea that food is equal parts art and medicine; as much about pleasure as healing; and that creativity and sustenance can be one and the same. A graduate of the New England Culinary Institute and former Food & Wine Editor at the LA Times, Amanda served apprentice duties under Suzanne Goin, the James Beard Award winning chef at the famous Luques Restaurant, who served as her mentor and inspiration behind Moon Juice, an online holistic apothecary and chain of elegant community-centric juice shops with three locations across Los Angeles that Amanda founded in 2012. Amanda is also the author of the exquisite Moon Juice Cookbook, and has been profiled extensively in the most prestigious publications in the world, including the New York Times Sunday Magazine, The New Yorker, Vanity Fair, Elle, Vogue, InStyle, and The Hollywood Reporter. In addition, Amanda is no stranger to controversy. Last year found her square in the Internet's vicious, vitriolic crosshairs — an experience we explore at length. This is a conversation about Amanda's eclectic upbringing and unique entrepreneurial path. It's about taking control of your education and your path. It's a conversation about self-care habits, and the power of plants to heal. And it's about food not just as nourishment, but as an experience. Spending time with Amanda was soothing and delightful. I sincerely hope you enjoy the exchange. Peace + Plants, Rich

Step one through a thousand and maybe forever could just be focusing on eating plants in all forms. I happen to like raw plants. I don't only eat raw plants, but I love salad greens and herbs and love to get those in every day. I like to drink green juice. I make green juice in my shop, so it's easy for me to get it, but you can make it at home too. So that could be the beginning, middle, and end of a beautiful life. Fully in wellness is you are sleeping, you have loving relationships, you give yourself 20 minutes to sit down and have some quiet time by yourself. And you focus on eating plants.

Like, that sounds like wellness to me. That's Amanda Chantal Bacon. This week on The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Each week, I go deep with all manner of movers and shakers across the spectrum of wellness, fitness, entrepreneurship, spirituality, recovery, sports, literature, medicine, entertainment. And I share these people, these stories, this wisdom, all as a means to help you and me both become just a little bit better, a little more self-actualized. So I just got back from Sweden a couple of days ago, three days ago, I think, settling into re-entry here. And no real need to recap that

adventure too much because Chris and I just went through it all in the last podcast in quite some detail. But I did want to take a moment to once again say thank you because I got so many messages of support, so much love from everybody out there who followed our eau de l'oeil adventure. And it's amazing how many people actually got lured into the live cast, which is awesome and just warms my heart. It means a ton to me that you guys took the time to check in, to send me a little support. And I'm super duper grateful about that. And speaking of grateful, I woke up the morning after Chris and I laid down that podcast. It was like 3 a.m. I just, I couldn't sleep. My brain was just restless, even though my body was so jacked up. I just couldn't, I just couldn't sleep anymore. So I

got up, I popped open my laptop, and that's when it hit me because I noticed that my friend, Adam Skolnick, do you remember him from the podcast? He's the guy who wrote the book about the free diver, Nick Mavoli. It's called One Breath. And he shared that story on the show. It must be like a year and a half ago at this point. In any event, Adam had just published a story about Ötöala and me and my work and this podcast in the New York Times. The New York Times, people. The New York Times. And it had three pictures with it. Three. Honestly, it still feels totally surreal because, you know, I didn't know if I was going to make it.

I mean, not the race. I'm not talking about the race. I mean, in life, to be here, to be sober, to be able to do what I do, to live this dream, to share this podcast. It's just an incredible gift. And it was hardly a foregone conclusion that I would be able to sit here and do what I do. And there were a lot of years where it was really touch and go. So to be recognized in that way, on that stage, in that publication, of all publications, I mean, I just, I don't even know what to say. It leaves me at a loss.

And it's emotional for me. And when I was in that hotel room reading it at three o'clock in the morning, I just, I lost it. I completely lost it. It was like my whole life, everything that I have endured and weathered just came flooding into my awareness. And I just, I broke down. I had this like catharsis, like I've been holding my breath for 10 years and suddenly I could like exhale. And I don't want to get too crazy about it. Basically, I just look at it like it was this symbol that confirmed that, I don't know, maybe that I'm doing something right. And that feels pretty good. So again, thank you guys, because it's only because of you guys listening that I get to do this, that I get to share with you guys.

So that's it. Anyway, if you didn't see the article, you can go to the episode page on my website and I'll link to the show notes, or you can just go to the New York Times and search for the race and I'm sure it'll pop up. Hey, did I mention that I got Amanda Chantal Bacon on the show? Amanda Chantal Bacon. Who is Amanda? Well, Amanda is a graduate of the New England Culinary Institute. She is a former food and wine editor at the LA Times. She formerly apprenticed with the great Suzanne Goyne, head chef at the famous Luke Restaurant. I think that's how you say it. L-U-Q-U-E-S, Luke Restaurant. And she is currently the founder and CEO of Moon Juice, which is a chain of juice bars and nutritional products. She's also a cookbook author. The Moon Juice cookbook is really quite exquisite. But I would

say first and foremost that Amanda is an artist or sort of an alchemist, an artistic alchemist or an alchemic artist. I don't know how to say it, but you get the idea. And Amanda is quite the press magnet. She's been profiled basically everywhere, including the New York Times Sunday Magazine, which was quite the spread. The New Yorker, Vanity Fair, Elle, Vogue, InStyle, The Hollywood Reporter, on and on and on. She's also no stranger to controversy. She found herself in the Internet's crosshairs this past year on the receiving end of, let's just say, a little schadenfreude, a little snarky vitriol, I think it's fair to say. And we get into all that.

into all that. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find

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She's so cool, super groovy, and this is a really fun conversation that covers all sorts of terrain. We talk about all things health and wellness, sleep, meditation, nutrition, adaptogens, herbs, all kinds of crazy food stuff. We cover her entrepreneurial journey to launching and growing Moon Juice. We talk about her extraordinary cookbook, the Moon Juice cookbook. We talk about her cool upbringing in the Chelsea district of New York in the 80s to her super rad parents. Her mom was CEO of Betsy Johnson and her dad was a

musician who played with Billy Idol and Alan Vega of the art punk group Suicide, which is wild. Can you imagine growing up in a household like that? And we talk about her many careers, starting out with her path as a kindergarten teacher in New Zealand to becoming a food stylist, a freelance journalist, a food and wine editor, and even as a chef being mentored under, again, the award-winning chef Suzanne Goyne, which is a really cool story. Plus, of course, as I referenced earlier, we dig into how she was put through the social media ringer on Twitter for a minute. She was like a trending thing. I'm not going to spoil the story, but it

is kind of amazing. It's super crazy. In any event, I really enjoyed this one. She's really great. I've known Amanda for several years, and I'm delighted to be able to bring her to you guys today. So let's talk to Amanda. All right, Amanda Chantal Bacon, thank you for making the trek to Malibu Canyon. It's a delight to sit down with you and talk about my favorite subjects, wellness, diet, nutrition, all these things that I know you're so passionate about. And I thought like the first, the first thing I'm sitting right here, I've got your book, your new, your, well, I was going to say new cookbook, but it's not that new at this point, right? When did it come out? It came out in the fall. It is a work of art. Oh, thank you. It truly is. And, you know, because we're, we're in the business

of like, you know, doing cookbooks ourselves. I remember when we got it in the mail, you sent it to us a while back and Julie and I just sat down and went through it. And I was like, oh my God, like this is from the photography to the layout, to the aesthetics, to, you know, not to mention the recipes themselves. I mean, it is beautiful. Oh, thank you. It really is. And I think the reason that I bring that up, not just to like butter you up, but which you deserve, but, you know, I think it speaks to your level of intention and attention to detail like this. You're an artist. I mean, this is the work of an artist. So like, how did you do this? Like, I mean, this is the work of an artist. So, like, how did you do this? Like, I mean, every page is, like, insane.

It was an insane journey. I think I went about that book in a very naive way, which was, I'm just gonna, you know, sit down and write the whole thing and make all the recipes at home and shoot everything at home and go off the cuff. And I understand now why with cookbooks, there is such production and you get prop stylists and food stylists and people to prepare the food and recipe testers. And it all makes sense to me now. But that was really blood, blood, sweat, and tears. And done in my home. And it was done over, gosh, I think it was a two-year process or something. over, gosh, I think it was a two year process or something. Um, I moved homes in the middle of that,

that most of the photography was done in the first week that I had gotten into a house that I had just bought and everything was in boxes. And so I did my best to, you know, pull things out and set shots up. But, um, I worked with a photographer who was really interested in having this creative experience. And, um, we, you know, the two of us just went at it. And so he had the patience and the time to let me like build a crazy temple to, you know, a walnut. Right. And he'd like take a nap and I do all that. Instead of saying like, okay, he's like, no, that's awesome. I mean, you know, a couple of things.

I mean, I think what you have done is really inverted the expectations that one has when they open up a cookbook because they adhere to certain specifications. Like this is how they kind of look and this is how you do it but the photography really pushes the boundaries of what you would expect like you have that i don't know what it is pouring over that skull walnut milk and like the walnut in the eye it's like yeah it looks like a photograph that would belong in an art installation so you definitely had a talented photographer who was willing to like you know go places that a cookbook usually wouldn't go. And I think secondarily, there's something beautiful about that naivete, you know, when you don't know what the expectations are, what the rules are, and you're just in your, in your freedom, you know, in your creative flow. And I think that provides space for

magical things to occur. And God bless my editor, Pam Krause, who watched me and sort of let me go out there and do it in the most unproductive way one could. I know Pam a little bit. And I think that that speaks to her integrity because a lot of times you run into issues where they're like, okay, you want to do that? Okay. But like, you know, it has to be like this or they're going to then, you know, sort of temper it down and make time in letting it be that way, letting me learn lessons on my own. And we're working on another one now. Yeah, you should. Yeah, I'm actually overdue for copy. I think that copy was due a couple of months ago. Oh, man, I'm in the same boat.

I have a deadline coming up on September 15th that I'm terrified I'm not going to meet. You know, when I wrote my first book, I just didn't have that much going on. And so it was a lot easier to focus and get more writing done throughout the day. And every day I wake up with the intention of like, this is what I'm going to do. I allow things to intervene on that sacred time and space. And I've got to really work better on boundaries, but it gets harder, you know, and I can't imagine with everything that you're managing with this business and all your entrepreneurial endeavors that you could find that kind of quiet, contemplative space to, you know, create in that way.

quiet contemplative space to, you know, create in that way. It's really, it's really hard. And I have days that are boldly marked book day. Oh, don't call me. Don't email me. I can't do it. And every one of those book days, there are fires that are urgent. And I've got to be on the phone with a lawyer and this and looking at numbers and getting back to my team. And that has gone on for quite some time. You know, which has forced me to actually let go. And I think that's one of the nice. Well, we'll see if it's nice in the end. Maybe it's not nice at the end of the nice, well, we'll see if it's nice in the end. Maybe it's not nice at the end of the day, but there has been this thing of finding that quiet, sacred space where it's going to flow out of you with other people in the room, with noise, with your kid throwing things at you, with work calling,

with texting, budget answers in the midst of doing that. And well, I think that's an enlightened perspective because it transcends that paradigm of being the control freak CEO and understanding that, yes, you can make your way to some extent with that sort of mentality, but a better way, a more sustainable way is to be in the allowing and in the letting go and empowering the people around you and not sort of getting caught up in the minutia. I mean, when I see that cookbook, I'm like, this person's a control freak.

She must be because like every detail of this is so dialed in. And yet, you know, running on that fuel is a fuel that you're going to crash and burn on. Right. So at some point you have to transcend that and allow the people around you to contribute and let go a little bit. Yeah. I mean, is that a fair representation of what you're saying? Like allowing it to channel through you as opposed to. Yeah. And, and having that energy channel through you and finding your muse moments, you know, not when everyone is going to go away and leave you alone and the phone is off and that's certainly helpful but also how does that happen when you have got the demands pouring down and you're just in the eye of the storm to also be able to squeak something out at that place

and you know maybe look back on it in a couple of weeks and say, yeah, I'm still getting it. It's all still coming together. Yeah. It's a mindfulness practice. I mean, it's easy to be serene when you're meditating in a cave, but how do you take that? How do you take that approach into the world where you can't manage everything and, you know, there's chaos abounds. where you can't manage everything and there's chaos abounds. Yeah, and nonstop. I've had, you're spot on when you say,

oh God, she must be a control freak. I came from such a scary place of control. I mean, I can think back. I often think back on times when I didn't didn't have a child i didn't have a business um i would make my bed so tightly i was so particular about the way the sheets i'm shocked when you know just everything is just so just so and i worked in kitchens and would just, you know, each plate that went out was like this, the parsley plush is all wrong. It's all wrong. It's at the wrong angle on the plate. It simply cannot go out, you know. that has evolved into ceo of a and founder of a company and very active and still there every day

and making that happen and essentially you know in some ways it's a business that has matured and in other ways i look at it as like it's very much a startup i'm still in startup mode um and simultaneously i've had a spiritual practice that um i think again has had moments of being very precious and contrived and controlled and needing to do my meditation in silence, no disruption. You know, it's got to smell a certain way. I got to sit on this thing. It's all got to be like this. And you freak out if it doesn't go that way? Well, no, I mean, I, you know, I got to enjoy it in that way and was really so particular.

And then, you know, I don't know, I wake up 10 years later or whatever. And it's like, wow, none of that exists. And there is not any hope of any type of control like that at all anymore. And I'm finally actually just really relaxing into it. That's good. You deserve to, you know, it's, it's gotta be an interesting, um, puzzle because you are the face of the brand, you know, the brand exists, but you are part and parcel with, of that brand. And, you know, as sort of the, the, the, the name behind it and the face behind it, those details are super important because I think that is what distinguishes you from what so many other people are doing. And yet you still have to make the bandwidth for the vision and the big decisions.

So you have to be like in the dirt, in the granular and also like up in the clouds. Yeah. Up in the cloud sounds really nice. Yeah. Which one do you like better? You like that? I don't know. I could see you getting super into the details, too. I do. That's how I spent, you know, I was up at 6 a.m., went to sleep at 3, up at 6, just in the dirt. It doesn't end, right? It does not end. This feels like we're up in the clouds. Right. We're in the clouds now.

So I've had a lot of entrepreneurs on this show, but I don't think that I've had very many female CEOs and entrepreneurs. Well, I had Ariana Huffington on, but I don't, I'm trying to think back. Maybe I've had one or two, but you're unique in that not only are you a female founder, CEO of, it is a startup, but also you're a mom and, you know, you've built this incredible brand that has achieved, you know, a level of sort of notoriety and prominence and really has traction and it's got to feel good. But like, how do you balance all of that? I think, you know, that's part of this thing of letting go of control in some way, also letting go of balance in that

controlled, contrived way. When I think balance, I had a very specific picture of what that looked like. What was that picture? I don't know. It's I think all the things that are out there that are the sound sage and well and good and how much sleep you should get and how much personal time you should have and self-care rituals. And all of that is wonderful. And then also not being rigidly attached to that and spanning out a bit, you know, having a different perspective around time. So maybe that doesn't need to happen every day. Maybe that doesn't need to happen every year.

And looking more at seasons in life. If this is a season now, it's, you know, would be hurricane season. Um, and, and to look at, well, you know, I'm not going to get outside and go lay in the sun cause it's hurricane season, but the sun's coming back in, in a few months. And so shifting my perspective around balance um also really being able to feel my body and feel when it's no longer okay and to not have any guilt or shame that's a big that's a big part of it. I think, you know, we have these conventional ideas around balance and something I put a lot of thought into and for somebody like you like it you know your business your child all these things require an intense amount of focus and energy i mean you just said you were up at three you were up till three up at six like you know that doesn't meet a conventional

idea this doesn't sound very balanced yeah but but at the same time like that's your your your fulcrum point is going to be different from somebody else and being okay with that. Like, yeah, I'm going to go all in on this because this requires my focus and attention right now. I'll let that pendulum swing back. You know, you can use that seasons analogy for that in the micro as well, from hour to hour, day to day, or week to week. Yeah. But there are daily things that I do so that I can burn it really hard. And as I'm burning really hard for that season, I meditate daily.

There are certain foods and substances that I avoid if I know I'm in crank mode. I take adaptogens daily. That's a must for me I do have things to keep me on board and they're just non-negotiable and sleep has actually been something that I did not get enough of and I watched just some chronic inflammation

and stress chemistry in my body that I couldn't get over the hump. No matter how much meditation, how many adaptogens I was taking, stress, I mean, sleep was a real component of that. How much were you getting on average? I mean, my, you know, sleeping three three four hours a night was almost a nightly thing and you know you just watch your hpa access you can't be a doyen of wellness when you're sleeping three hours a night it was not periods of time well and they but you know there are band-aids you can put on that with like well i'm meditating a lot and i'm taking so many adaptogens and i'm doing cryo and i'm doing breath work so there are things that you but all that time going to cryo

and you could just get an extra hour i know i know yeah it was actually and it was really it was ariana who um said something to me about, and it definitely stuck in there. And then it was when I got together with my boyfriend. We were in Bolinas, and we were taking a walk, and he very gently approached the subject, but he let me know that he would be introducing me to sleep and making sure that I was getting sleep. And I sort of just laughed and, you know, no, I don't need it.

But he really has introduced that to me and I've seen such an incredible difference. So sleep, adaptation, adaptogens. that's good well let's let's unpack all of that stuff but let's do it in the context of of like telling the moon juice story so right now you have i mean ven the one in venice was the first one right and you've got one like uh near near uh like on melrose place on melrose place yeah and then you have a couple more? And then there's one in Silver Lake. Silver Lake, okay. But not one, your stuff sells in like shops all over the place, right?

Yeah, we're all over the world. Right, that's amazing. Yeah. So when did you start this? And like, well, let's just go back to the beginning. You have a pretty cool like upbringing, origin story. Yeah, well, I was born in New York. My mom was in fashion. She was the CEO of Betsy Johnson, right?

Yeah. That is, it sounds like a super interesting job. Yeah. It was, um, I was a really fun place to grow up and see her, you know, place to grow up and see her you know my mom was always working so that must have stuck in me somewhere um I think about it now you know at the time I didn't really didn't mean much to me but to think about that she had I think at the end you know 50 stores or something nationwide and was doing licensing deals with Japan and um didn't have a business background, was a model in London. So she started out as a model? So how did she ascend to becoming a CEO of such a company?

You know, she was a model in London and traveling around and wound up moving back to the States and I think met Betsy through a mutual friend. And they became fast friends. And and Betsy you know I was making little things and my mom said okay let's let's partner on this let's do something and I think it really started with Betsy sewing things on the floor and then my mom going out and selling them so she was there from the beginning then yeah they started it together oh wow that's really cool so Betsy Johnson's like hanging out at your apartment.

She's my godmother. Oh, really? Wow. She lives in Malibu now. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Paradise Cove. What an amazing human being.

She really is. That's interesting because you have this sort of the business savvy with like the extreme creativity, like mashing up against each other in those two individuals, right? Obviously your mom must be very business savvy to have grown that business to become as successful as it is. And I mean, there's nobody more creatively prolific or sort of unchained than Betsy Johnson, right? So that must've been interesting as a kid to be exposed to that by osmosis. I can see in see in you now like this this amalgamation of those you know of that kind of merged ethos yeah well and they were such good friends and partners um

but so different and just even their offices right where he totally but just even their offices were always next to each other and there was the door that opened between them. And I'd hang in my mom's office for a little bit, all neat, tidy, buttoned up. And then going to Betsy's office, and it was super crazy. And there were a lot of crazy girls in there. And everybody was smoking cigarettes and eating candy and popcorn. And it was like a big party. And your dad was a musician?

Mm-hmm. What kind of musician? He played the guitar and did vocals, and he played with Billy Idol when he came to the U.S. And then he wrote some music with Alan Vega and Suicide. Wow. And played with them. So did you grow up in like lower Manhattan? Yeah, I grew up in Chelsea.

That must have been wild. And Chelsea was not. I'm kind of jealous. Yeah, but it was like there was an energy. But it was really cool. So this is what, like early 80s, late 70s, early 80s. I mean, it was a super interesting time in New York. It was.

And I'm so grateful to have grown up there. And I think back, you know, I think being in my mid thirties now, I can really start to appreciate the characters that I grew up with and what they were doing and that energy that was in the city and watching people really go out and make it. Right. Yeah, through art. Through art. Really make it through art and really push the consciousness in a major way 30 years later. So what kind of kid were you? I was quiet.

30 years later. So what kind of kid were you? I was quiet. I think I was, I was quiet and, um, really enjoyed listening, really enjoyed all of these interesting, insane adults around me.

It was like a lot of chaos around. I mean, it's like Billy Idol coming out. I mean, I was trying to get it like a mental picture. my dad, my dad got sober. Um, my dad got sober at a certain point.

Oh, that's good. How old were you when that happened? Oh. Did it get crazy first? Maybe. I don't know. Can't remember. That's probably good.

Yeah, he got sober when I was young enough that that was, you know, home was sort of relaxed in that way. But my mom was in the fashion world and I was, you know, like five getting pushed down runways with like tutus on and insane makeup and like a flower pot with a Barbie doll coming out of it strapped to my head. I got just the thing for you. It's just like every, you know, every fashion,

every season. It was just like, yeah. Did that make, did that turn you off to that world? Or was there an expectation that you would kind of move into that? I was really not into it. I, you know,

it was kind of like fun and I grew up in it and I love the people in it. But at a certain point it was like, man, I'm just wearing jeans and T-shirts. You're rebelling. Yeah. By going to the gap. I don't care about fashion or beauty. This is the last thing I would ever want to do. Well, you're pretty fashionable now.

Well, thanks, Rich. You are. So some of it rubbed off, I guess all right so so where does the you know where is the interest in food and i know like at 18 you went off to to italy right yeah and i was um there and i was thinking that i would um try to learn a fine art medium um i knew i really wanted to work with my hands and it seemed like that would be the right thing to do. Although I had always wanted to be a doctor. And that just didn't seem in the cards for me.

I had horrible attendance at school. I don't even know if I'm officially graduated from high school. Oh yeah, did you go to public high school in New York? No, I went to Friends Seminary. And then I went to from high school. Oh, yeah. Did you go to public high school in New York? No, I went to Friends Seminary. And then I went to the day school. With like a bunch of nuns and stuff? No. The seminary, though?

Well, it's the Friends School. Okay. I think they're actually not. I don't know. Last I heard, they were not. Oh, like Quaker Friends. Got you. Okay.

All right. With a bunch of nuns. I was like, well, seminary. Wow, that's true. Dad's playing with Billy Idol and you're going to seminary school. That's an interesting mix. All right. So you head off to Italy. You go to like Florence or something?

Yeah, I was in Florence and thought that I was going to do that. And all I was interested in was food and going to the farmers markets and um you know this i think at this point america has such a different relationship with food for the most part and everybody understands farm to table and we can thank alice waters for that and you know there is a whole movement that happened that educated us and it's so normal for people to know these esoteric, you know, heirloom bean varietals that they are going to cook up. And that's a fun thing to do. But that wasn't happening so much in the U.S. So my eyes were really opened being in Italy and seeing food.

Did the food thing start before Italy or did something, it got triggered when you were there? It did. No, it, it, my favorite place on earth was a restaurant. And I love food. And I love reading menus. My dad cooked some as well. So he always cooked at home and studied for a while. I think he was at the French Culinary Institute right when they opened or something in New York.

But it was there. It was always there. when they opened or something in New York. But it was there. It was always there. And then it got to the point where it's just like, I actually don't want to draw or paint. I want to go to the farmer's market,

and I want to taste 13 different types of basil. And so do you get involved in the restaurant scene in Florence? Do you start working in kitchens and stuff? Or what does it look like? Well, then I went on to actually teach kindergarten. In Italy? No, in New Zealand. And I found a place where, for some reason, they didn't need credentials. And I was just stuck in this charter school teaching kindergarten.

And I was really into Rudolf Steiner. And way before I had my child, was really into Waldorf education and had not found that my educational experience did not feel so good to me. And I knew I wasn't dumb, but the way that things were presented to me, it just didn't sink in and they were not very interesting. And so I was really curious about other educational models and thought that that was something I would like to do. And working specifically with people whose brains latch onto information in a very different way. And also taking into consideration which the Waldorf model does the spiritual development of a little soul.

development of a little soul who you don't just pump a little soul into a classroom and shame them and make them feel insecure and no it's about empowerment and respect and and uh and um providing them with autonomy yeah so i was really interested in that and threw myself into this situation um where they would take me and also where it was beautiful and I could explore some nature when I wasn't teaching. And I realized that I made probably just a terrible teacher, would one day make a really good parent, but I had these almost inappropriate attachments to some children. And then very little interest in others i'm gonna cut myself off right now so you did that for a little while i did that for a little while i wound up um swinging back through new york and working in, which was also not my calling. But it was an interesting thing to see how the mechanics of that worked.

You probably learned a little bit about marketing that's applicable with how you advance your brand these days, right? Yes or no? No. I feel like I sort of was doing just not high level thinking and it was more going through what it's like to actually sit there and try to contact 150 editors and try to contact, you know, 100 different spas that might take the product. And so it was sales and PR and just seeing the reality of that, which does serve me today, you know, having that experience, knowing that. And then I wound up falling in love and wound up living there for almost four years between BA and Jose Ignacio, just a little beach town in Uruguay. And that was a place where I really was able to dive into the hospitality scene and had friends that had hotels and restaurants and bars. And there was an explosion happening there at the time. It was just after the

devaluation. So everybody came home. Many people came home from living abroad and, um, there was incredible creativity happening in the city at the time. And so it was so exciting to be there and, again, get into styles of cooking and farming and flavors and simplicity and hospitality. And I had attempted opening a hotel in Jose Ignacio. Oh, wow. How long ago was that? Oh, that must have been like 14 years ago, 14, almost 15 years ago. And so what happened with it?

Well, it was really nice because I got to see what it would be like to raise money what does raising capital look like putting a business plan together um do you have partners with this or was this it was um it was with the person that I was living down there with um and so we were both so passionate about it and but I really took on it was it was a great learning thing and what what are the costs associated with having an architect draw plans and getting into permitting and that was a different country it already enlightens you to everything that you have to go through to really get something up and running. And in that process, I realized that I was probably not in the right partnership. Romantically and professionally?

Yeah. Both? Okay. And that I really wanted to dive deep into, um that i really wanted to dive deep into hey if i'm looking at opening this project and it is a hotel and a restaurant and a bar and i am so passionate about food i actually want to be able to do all of those things myself so that um i'm never in a position of and that's really what i'm interested in and i'm not in a position of not knowing how to fix things when you know the chef runs off in a huff right back to the control thing right back to the control thing I was in the height of control then everything was so controllable you know and it's just you so um I went and I studied at the New England Culinary Institute.

This must have been, I don't know, 13, 13, 14 years ago somewhere. Was that up in Vermont or something? It's up in Vermont. It was in the Green Mountains. And I chose that school specifically because they were dealing with food politics. They were dealing with sustainability and seasonality. When seasonality wasn't even a thing in mass consciousness and you know like well why wouldn't i be able to get a tomato right it's still my sandwich it's still not to the extent that it should i would argue yeah no when we're still pushing but at this point it really

was not out there so i was really interested in um going about things in that way and intuitively had been dealing with that in Italy and in South America. And that's naturally how most of the world is thinking in small towns and in small restaurants and going to farmer's markets. So diving more into that. And through that, I discovered, um, Suzanne going, who had just won a James Beard award. And I had thought that I wanted to go work with Alice and would most likely move to San Francisco. Um, and I found Suzanne. And Suzanne was still in the kitchen seven days a week and really in it. And she studied with Alice, and they really came from the same camp. And I wrote Suzanne an email in Vermont. Can I come stage?

She wrote me right back. I got on an airplane. Oh, I didn't have a license. I moved to LA, and I didn't have a license. I moved to LA and I didn't have a license. Of course not, because you grew up in New York. Right, and I was always living in cities. And so I wound up, I staged and, God, I think I probably made such a fool of myself.

But she saw, but then like cleaned up really well. So that was your first like legit kitchen experience. Yeah. You know, I had been working in Vermont and so I was working at a restaurant there and working at a bakery there and spending time in some of the dairies. So. And so Suzanne really becomes like your mentor. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. So explain a little bit about like who she is and what she's meant to you. She, I mean, she's certainly the woman in Los Angeles that has pushed that. I guess what we can attribute is that Chez Panisse, Alice Waters, California cuisine, that ethos probably brought that to Los Angeles in a way that I don't think anyone else has and um is is an incredible woman is an incredible intuitive chef and at the same time an incredible business person so to really be hands-on with her and to be learning technical

skill, you know, where she is a perfectionist and everything has got to be just so. And so I also speak that language. Um, and it was an incredible experience to be able to have a mentor where all I wanted to ever do was get inside of her brain and figure out what she wanted, you know, five, 10 minutes before she could ask for it, or, you know, hopefully she'd never have to ask for anything, but how each tomato should be seasoned, how it should taste the way basil should be sliced. And there was nothing that made me happier than really being in her kitchen and finally, you know, getting to the point where, you know, you're not fucking up because she's just not.

Right. You're totally in sync. You can anticipate her needs. Like you're, you're just, you're not fucking up because she's just not right you're totally in talking you can anticipate her needs like you're you're just you're on the same wavelength so it all runs like a seamless machine yep but was the intention at the time like that you would ascend to you know having your own restaurant at some point or what was in there that was in there. That was in there. And I also was so, I was so happy just working in kitchens. And there are days when I would like to just go back to being a line cook. Those were probably some of the, I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to that place. You can turn the brain off and just do.

Yeah, it's full flow state. It's like a musician or an athlete where everything is happening so fast and your physical body is, it's musical and athletic. When it's going well. When it's going well. And when it's not going well, it feels like the end of the world and but there's some there's some part of me that really likes that you know that pressure that highly pressurized situation where if you don't just stay on point again i think it's musical

or athletic you have just it does not matter the chaos that's going on around you or how terribly you've screwed up you are just going to keep a straight face and get right back on track. Keep your shit together. It's exciting. Very exciting. Yeah. So how long did you do that for? I was with Suzanne for a couple years and then I went and worked with some other chefs

in the city who were incredible, um, and helped open a restaurant. And so, and, you know, tons of catering was happening along the way. And then I really dropped into, um, I know that, oh, and then, you know, I went off and was a food and wine editor at the Los Angeles Times Magazine when they launched that. That must have been eight years ago, eight, nine years ago when that came out. You've done a lot of stuff. Yeah. And then I did a bunch of journalism, freelance journalism and food styling. freelance journalism and food styling so there there were some years there where it was i was cooking and if a chef was going on vacation and needed to stand in to like run the kitchen i

would do that and i would do catering person at large catering chef i could write about it i can do like i can make it look good but it's kind of all over the place, right? It was all over the place. So how do you take all of this and like congeal it into a vision that then becomes Moon Juice? Well, yeah, I think that is still my role at Moon Juice where it's like I'm up at six in the morning going through legal documents. But then I was up, you know, super late at night looking at like how millennials speak on the Internet these days. And then that flows right into meeting with my creative team and a launch that we're doing and diving into copy and then tasting. You know, we're going to replace the Hoshowu with, uh, Makuna in the chocolate milk. And so, you know, like finalizing three samples of that and, um, diving into some R and D and then dipping into some IP stuff. And it's right. So basically you're saying it's the same thing.

It's the same. It's almost like you're freelancing in your own, in your own business. And here I am. And then it's like, I gotta go, I gotta get to Malibu to do a podcast. Right. Well, did you have like some epiphany? Like this is, I don't want to do a restaurant. I have this idea. I have this vision instead. Or, you know, how does it come together?

I totally had that moment. You know, part of my story was that growing up, I had very early on health issues that allopathic medicine couldn't quite figure out. And I just got put on so many antibiotics and it was respiratory issues. And so that really, you know, from that young age of four, five, I mean, you know, first memory stuff, not being able to breathe, coughing so much at night, that that was the some of the first stuff i can remember being on earth um and that's you know the breathing thing is so real because that affects how you're going to run around how you sleep at night real quality of life stuff um and going to doctors and not being able to figure it out and actually having an Ayurvedic doctor who

was visiting stopped me in a health food store after hearing my hack, just clocking the hack all around the store and came and did what I now know very well to be the typical Ayurvedic diagnosis, but pulse diagnosis, looking at the tongue, asking me some questions, made some very simple recommendations, no sugar, no wheat, no dairy was at the heart of it. And within 72 hours, my quality of life had gone from, you know, X to this incredible thing of I could fall asleep easily and I could run around and I wasn't coughing and I was breathing and so at that young age of four or five also having parents that fully explained to me and

I fully understood from the doctor and then it was really handed to me as now it's your responsibility to make sure that you stick to this right investing you with with uh with with that responsibility i think is huge i mean that had to be like a big light bulb moment and you know perhaps you're too you were too young at the time but but that no it was it was like that you're doing the little science experiments of going to a birthday party tell me this like my regular doctor yeah Yeah, right. Well, I probably wasn't at that point. I got to that point when I, you know, as a teen, and now I can look at it and say, okay, I had food allergies. I had some environmental allergies. I had been put on so many antibiotics as a young child that my, you know,

there was no gut health happening whatsoever. My immune system was really low. I had, I think because of all of those things, I was particularly susceptible to stress and was taking in all, you know, also living in New York City. There's a lot of environmental stress there. I think I had some emotional stress happening, which turned into this perfect storm and then constantly sick and getting sicker. And so, you know, it was the early 90s when I think it was quite fashionable to give children, get children on drugs. And so maybe it started with you've got learning disabilities. Let's put you on speed.

They put you on the Ritalin? yeah and so well and then i felt really depressed then i felt really weird and depressed then it's like well you you must be bipolar or just be really depressed and and here's this and then you're in this loop of all your I was on so many cocktails I think and then you just feel awful and so not only do is I have a compromised immune system and the gut's probably not functioning I probably just have some like really normal emotional things that I could have talked through but I've gone down this path So that was actually part of the inspiration to leave the United States at a young age and not really interested in going to college. I was really interested in, I want to get off all of these medications. I don't trust the system. There's something fundamentally wrong with it for me. And I'm a huge advocate for science

and medicine and have used it in my life. And it's been a wondrous thing. And I haven't had to use it in my child's life yet, but would not hesitate to do so. And it's a miracle. Modern medicine is a miracle, but not in the way that I had been exposed to it. And I had gotten very sick from being on all of these pills. And it was also really confusing to hear that I was feeling a certain way because the brain works in a certain way. And it's just black and white. And we're scientists and we're doctors and we know. And I'm going, no, wait.

Yeah, you need to do this. This doesn't feel right. You put your hand down. We'll tell you what to do. It'll be fine. So when you go to Italy, did you just go cold turkey? Or did you titrate off all that stuff? Or how did that go?

Yeah, it was a little sloppy coming off of it. I was actually, my boyfriend was asking me last week. So tell me about the time when you got... Like a hot mess for like three months? It was like more than three months. Yeah, wow. It was rough. And I did want...

And it was birth control. It was prescription medication. It was, you know, all over the place. It was really rough. It was rough and it was messy. It was rough and it was messy. And I think that was also when I decided that if I could make it through that time of feeling so awful, that there was just like this flame alive in me that had faith that there was some existence outside of that physically, spiritually, emotionally, mentally, that I was going to be able to break through that and find something else. And that was really when the journey in finding that consciousness started. And you know, when I grew up as a teenager,

I really loved psychedelics. It was my thing. I really didn't care about drinking, psychedelics it was my thing yeah really didn't care about drinking um didn't really care about social tabs of acid and going to school kind of thing no i wouldn't go to school i'd go to the woods but like i took acid when i was shockingly young it was like 11 or 12 or something and i've got a six-year-old now i'm just like no yeah oh my god um i loved mushrooms and i really love just being quiet and sort of wandering off on my own and thinking about time and space and um i think i had a lot of guilt and shame around that you know as a teen because it was i would get caught and then it would be like oh you're just terrible you You're never going to make it. But you're seeking something, right?

But I was seeking something. And it sounds like on some level it contributed to this. It stoked the flame that was alive in me of like, hey, there's something beyond this. So let's try to break into that place without psychedelics, without prescription medication, without alcohol. And so at a very young age, I went cold turkey on everything and really just tried to find that place within myself. And walking was a big part of that. Nature was a big part of that. I

think being alone and being in foreign lands was really helpful and then um starting to look at meditation and breath work and asana and um herbal medicine and so that's when that journey started for me as well and this idea that that food can have these healing properties right this this little uh sort of sliver or nugget of experience from your youth where you had this experience with this Ayurvedic practitioner who seemed to do wonders for you, right? I mean, we talk about Ayurveda on the podcast all the time, and I think it gets into the seasonality that you talked about before,

but this powerful idea that the body knows, the, the body knows what to do when it's in proper balance. And the trick is figuring out how to, um, get those imbalanced systems into balance so that the body, you know, can like take over and, you know, do what it's been made to do. Right. And food is a big part of that and adaptogens and herbs and all these things that you've infused all your products with you know play a huge role in that kind of systemic approach to maintaining and improving your wellness but it's did you did you end up like studying ayurveda or like learning more about because that starts to you're having this you're having this gourmet experience you know kind of this farm to table organic thing.

But then the whole Chinese medicine, herbs and adaptogens. And all of that was happening simultaneously. Okay, it's coming together. So it was professionally working in that environment and performing on that level. And then, you know, again, with the staying up all night. But I would. And then, you know, again, with the staying up all night and then working with, um, kind doctors and healers along the way where, you know, I could afford to go in once in a while to get a tune up or like

ask some question because it became clear to me that I had an autoimmune condition, um, and was dealing with that and had, um, lots of thyroid stuff going on, which probably had been going on since a late teen, but you know, it becomes, you can no longer ignore it when you're not menstruating and you're in your early 20s. And again, having some fear around allopathic doctors and so not wanting to go back into that place and put myself in a vulnerable position of saying, I don't know what's happening with my body, please tell me. And so I spent so much time trying to figure out what was going on with my body and learning from all the kooks and geniuses and freaks out there where I was trying, you know, three different modalities of healing a week. And that's what I spent all my money on. And I would try any cleanse that was out

there. You name it, I've done it. And that's what I, you know, that I've, that's how I spent. Yeah. Well, that was your, that was your graduate degree, right? And it allowed you to do what you do today. I mean, where, where was the point where you thought like, I can do my own formulas. Like I've learned enough now I've seen what works and I feel like I have a base of knowledge that is profound enough to the point where I can now step into this in a professional way. I think I'll probably never feel like that. Because every day that goes by, there's so much more that I want to learn. These Chinese medicine doctors and Ayurvedic doctors, I mean, the vast knowledge. The more you get into it, the more.

You get your pulse taken by somebody who really knows what they're doing. It's astonishing. It is. And the deeper that I get into these practices, and particularly Ayurveda, the more I realize I don't know anything. anything, and going to India and doing Panchakarma and really having that experience and seeking out some of the great Vaidyas in India and spending time with them, it's insane. And just when you think that you might potentially be able to go to medical school and get into the science of it and just grasp that in this lifetime. You go and you spend time with these ideas,

and then you realize that they're playing with phenomena, and that most of Ayurvedic medicine, these great doctors, they are calling in knowledge from other realms. And that's where it's all happening, man. And I'm just like, shit, because I just did the math. And like, maybe I was going to be able to get enough of that scientific knowledge to be useful to someone. And now I'm realizing that I should have started when I was five.

Right. that I should have started when I was five. Right, but I think it's fair to say that you stand at this juncture between these two worlds. And what you've done beautifully and successfully is really translate a lot of these ideas in a way that is not just palatable for the average human being, but looks cool and is inviting and as well and is welcoming

and is you know kind of like has this positive energy around it like look you can you know let's take control of your life let me help you let me show you this is like a beautiful way to live as opposed to you know these ideas that are shrouded in mystery, you know, on another side of planet Earth. And I think that, you know, if I think about what my job is and what I've done and what I'm good at, I think it's really being a little manager, cheerleader, salesperson, marketer for these plants that really came in and have saved my life, you know, really, really just being rock bottom. And, and I've got almost 15 years of blood and hormone panels to really track this stuff. And so the normal person is going to take these things and feel a little less stressed out, have increased libido, shiny hair, some good vital signs um and be really happy with that but i think when you are in some chronic situation where it just you just don't fit in your own body anymore things are not right um and you can't separate the mind and the spirit from that. So it's all three things, really being in that place and having these plants come in and revolutionize everything.

And I didn't intellectually have to know that much about it. It was really just like, okay, I heard that if I did these things, it may help, and having this miraculous experience and then wanting to go back and intellectually understand, like, all right, now, what is the neuroendocrine system and how did all of that happen? And so I've personally been obsessed with that and I'm so passionate about advocating for these plants

as an addition to somebody who is having an allopathic treatment, as preventative medicine, as daily maintenance, as a beauty ritual, as, you know, and athletes performing. There are so many ways to go about it. For me, it was just really like rock bottom. And now I'm standing here and I'm happy and I have a kid and I have a business. And like, maybe it wasn't going to be that way. Maybe I was just going to be a freak that never fit into my body and my mind.

And I don't know. and I don't know. Do you think that you always held the vision? Like when you look back now, are you like, man, how did this even happen? Or were you like, no, I always kind of knew. No, I knew. Like I would arrive at a place like this.

And where do you think that comes from? Do you think that began with the, you know, the mushroom trips? I didn't know back then. I definitely didn't know back then. I definitely didn't know back then. I was sort of watching the clock melt off the wall, wondering what the hell we were all doing here. But no, when Moon Juice came in and I thought, well, let me take all of my training and attention to detail

and ability to get up every day and work for 16 hours. Why don't I take that and put it behind something that I really believe in, and what the world actually wants and needs? And I don't know if I need to open another tasty restaurant featuring vegetables in Los Angeles. Um, so I sat, I sat with myself and I thought I was gonna, you know, like really sit with myself for a while. And I had been, um, just worked to the bone and had just come off of opening a restaurant and was just haggard. And so I thought I'd like to, you know, sit with that for a while, but I sat and within 12 hours or something, you know, I had the download,

I was on fire and had to go out and make this thing happen. So I never really caught a break. Um, and then I started writing the business plan and, you know, it was all stuff that I had been doing in my kitchen already and it was to bring a level of hospitality and service and aesthetic to something that you know I was like making these smoothies that were saving my life and I mean truly you know bringing my thyroid back online and giving me enough energy to go out in the world and perform and see the world through open eyes. And then making them taste really good. So making them taste like melted mint chip ice cream. Right.

But putting insane amounts of herbs in them. And I don't know i was just doing that like in my underpants at home alone right you would have been doing this anyway yeah and i was like well i you know there should be a place in the world where someone could yeah because i want to go out and see the people again i I wasn't drinking coffee, wasn't drinking alcohol, wasn't eating animals. And it was like, well, yeah, man, it'd been like a long time since I had done the mushrooms in the woods. And, um, there just, there wasn't an establishment where I could go and actually meet someone and have a social experience or feel excited so I was going to like

weird places that nobody wanted to meet me to like the weird macrobiotic restaurant kind of place you mean yeah but yeah I even get some people to go there let's go to the place where we get the herbs like the smelly and I had to get most of those in the mail it was really like don't you want to join me for you know my 23 smoothie that i'm making myself every morning at home right um i mean here's the thing so you you open up this place venice was the first one right uh-huh yeah like right across from cafe gratitude and i feel like rose avenue is pretty oh that's new where was the original location no no um oh cafe gratitude

wasn't there yeah it wasn't there it was pretty pretty desolate right yeah i know it was it's it's had a renaissance but you were there before all of that kind of transpired which is great for you because now it's so bustling there but um i'm interested in in kind of the, the plan going in. Cause I feel like it's almost like you created this Trojan horse situation because it's like, Oh, super tasty smoothies that are amazing, that are totally different than the smoothies I get anywhere else. And it's not emblazoned with this like adaptogenic sort of marketing speak around what's in them. Like you bring them in with the super tasty smoothie, expensive, but awesome. But that other stuff kind of comes later. Like you're hooking them, you know, on the taste.

And then you're like, oh, actually, that's just kind of window dressing to what you're actually doing. Right. Was that was there an awareness around that? Or is that a happenstance kind of? And I, I still have it going. You know, it's what I am really passionate about and what I really nerd out about. And then also taking into consideration the hospitality aspect where it's like that may not actually be interesting to you. And so how can

I serve you and how can I make you comfortable? And how can I make this just fun and tasty and make you feel good? And if you have more questions after that, and you want to know, then I'd be happy to share. And so, and if there are no questions and people don't like it, then let me figure something else out that people will like. But, you know, this has all been a natural progression of, hey, I thought you were insane for charging me $9 for this bottle of stuff that you said was a smoothie, but it wasn't frozen and it wasn't thick enough. And I don't even know what these ingredients are. All I know is I feel amazing. And now I'm going to come back and buy 10 of them. So I watched that happen enough

and had put herbs together that I was using in my life again that there was so much I could do with food, and that was so life-changing. But having an autoimmune condition and having thyroid stuff really required me to dive into adaptogens and supplementing with that and getting really serious. Can you just explain adaptogens for people that are not familiar with that term.

Yeah, they're super herbs and mushrooms that really simply, to put it simply, is they go in and they help your body to find homeostasis. So the way that that plant acts in each body is going to be different and it really works with you. And that adaptive energy comes from where these plants actually grow on the earth so these plants come from some of the toughest places on earth top of the himalayas where they have to adapt to survive and some of

these plants have made it through the ice age or they are the most adaptive little creatures on earth and um that potential is in the plant and when it's extracted in the right way and it's pure and it's got the right potency those are super important things to check for when you're using them, they will go into your body and help you in the same way and really change my life. And have mystified doctors, doctors that still, I have somebody that I work with and he takes my blood and we do full blood and hormone. Actually, I have to get my blood taken tomorrow at 7 a.m. There's a lady that comes to the house. I lay on the couch.

She just, it's like barbaric. Just drains me. How often are you getting your blood taken? When things are going well, once a quarter. If things are not feeling like they're going well once a quarter if things are not feeling like they're going well um you know i'll do every six weeks and tweak tweak what i'm taking and until i get it get it just right again well the extraction process and the purity factor with these plants you know is super important and i and i know you put you know a lot I, and I, and I know you put,

you know, a lot of intention and research into making sure that you do that, right. You know, I think it's confusing for the average consumer, even for the well-intentioned educated consumer. I mean, you can go to Erewhon, like our fancy market down the street here, and there's 20 different varieties of Moringa, you know, it's like, you don't know, there's no way of like, how is this extracted where did it come like yeah i had darren olin on he's like yeah 95 of that stuff is garbage it's not it doesn't it doesn't even have the active properties that you're looking for because of the land in which it was grown the conditions under which it was harvested the way it was you know packaged and dried or what have you that you're not even getting what you think

that you're getting and and i know you know with you you're not even getting what you think that you're getting. And I know with you being so insane about quality and all of that, like how you're sourcing these things, where you're getting them from and how they're prepared and all of that becomes super important. And that drives the price point, right? Which I want to talk to you about. Well, it should. Yeah, of course. It should, but but it doesn't always because then i go out there and i'm like wait this is insane these people are selling this reishi for more than our reishi and you know i can just take it out and look at it and smell it and touch it and just by the color of it see that they're you know they're putting the fruiting body in.

And so, yeah, I mean, that's what I've actually done for the last two years is I have spent an insane amount of money and time and energy and have built out a team, have an in-house herbalist. team have an in-house herbalist um we have gone on this journey of finding the best herbs to put in our formulas on earth i actually um gave julie you've got sex brain and power of the new formulas you guys can get into that but yeah it's been a two-year journey, and we are sourcing all of the herbs directly from their source. So working directly with farms, and we've got farms in India and China. We work with organic farms in India and have relationships with them there. And so those herbs are sent to us, and we double test them for purity and potency.

And then the herbs that are coming from China are also people we have relationships with and work with doctors as well out there that are helping to source and test those for those herbs come into the U.S. whole. And we test them for purity and potency. And then we send them to Oregon where we have somebody who is doing a proprietary extraction method using wind power and local spring water. So at that point, we then have all of our raw ingredients and then we take them and we blend them to make the formulas and pack them. So, I mean, that's been my obsession. It's a whole thing. That's all I've done.

That's actually not all I've done. That is wrong. That has been my obsession and has really taken over the company's time. I mean, that's what we're doing. I think a lot of companies are out there and building like tech media platforms to sell their products and investing in marketing. And we've really gone into this bunker. And, you know, I think in 2018 is when I'll really be able to rounding out the series, be start spending money on marketing and going about business in that way. But this first round was really used for I just want to find the best stuff on earth and make sure that it's safe and that we can scale. And you have an investor base that's supportive of that because typically you hear like, well, listen, you got to bring the prices down. Like we got to, you know, maybe dilute this stuff a little bit.

No, I have an incredible investor in the series A who had an experience with Moon Juice and really understood the quality, understood the brand. And he has been so supportive in going for that. That's great. Yeah. And in the growth of the company, was there one moment where, I mean, it's blown up, but like, was it, is it just been an organic like climb or were there, were there things that happened where suddenly things like got crazy? Cause of, I mean, now you've had movie stars come in and get photographed, you know, eating or drinking your stuff. I mean, how did that go in terms of getting the word out there and kind of growing your brand and creating awareness? Yeah, I feel like I don't have great

perspective on, on any of this at this point, because it's almost been, you know, it was day one and I had a little tiny baby strapped to me. And I was like making the juice and making the smoothies and ringing you up and explaining what the hell cold pressed juice is. And, you know, like let's not even get started on maca yet. And there has been an organic interest there. interests there and I can just remember like an editor from Elle and Allure like calling calling the juice shop you know where I pick up and the blenders are going and it's so loud hey moon juice hi this is blah blah blah from Elle magazine we would really like to interview the owner. Oh, yeah, sure. I'll leave a message for her.

You didn't say it was you. Because there's like a line out the door, and I'm just trying to bust the line with the smoothies. So there has always been some element of that. And certainly I think there have been moments of Gwyneth Paltrow loving our products genuinely and using them. Yeah, that's a big one. And her throwing a... Through Goop, like she sort of helped, you know, spread the word about what you were doing through her site. And she shared her genuine experience. about what you were doing through her side.

Yeah, and she shared her genuine experience. If she asked me to make her something and get her on a program, and she used it and she loved it and it really worked. And so then she was so generous and put it out there and shared her experience. So that was, I think, that threw us. I mean, she's under such scrutiny with her regime that I think us the that threw us I mean she's under such scrutiny with her

regime that I think us falling into that was one way that it blew up out there and then you know there was like some there was some diary I did of what I ate in a day

that had been published I think it was an L. This is an L. All right. Hold on. Let's talk about this. Okay. I mean, first of all, let me preface this by saying you, you get insane press. Like you had this beautiful profile of you and your business in the New York times Sunday magazine. That was, it was cheeky. We talked about this a little bit before, you know, like they took a couple shots at you, but overall, um, I thought you came out looking quite well and the photographs were beautiful. I mean, that's insane to get like a profile of you in the Sunday, New York times magazine. Like that, that, like, that's unbelievable.

And then like the New Yorker, like you've gotten some killer press, but this L magazine thing became like a thing. Right. So correct me if I'm wrong, but essentially somebody followed you around for a day. And it's like, this is a day in the life of Amanda Chantal Bacon, what you eat, your kind of routines throughout the day. And this person decided that they were going to convey this information in a kind of sarc sarcastic mocking jezebel kind of tone right and so this article gets written or is that a year later oh that was after the l diary went out and it was like hey you know it's just really low key l.com i took some pictures of like

hey now i'm having my tea what kind of tea is this oh it's silver needle okay now i'm having silver needle it was like really detailed like stuff that most people don't know what it is right but that's but that's you yeah it's just being real this is this is amanda this is like authentic and real but for the average you know person they're like i've never heard of any of these things that she's doing. She sounds like a Martian. Totally. But that piece was not intended to be flipped out.

And nobody, that just was normal. There was no press. And then I think it was in Australia. All I know is there was one day I was going to pick my kid up from kindergarten, preschool at the time. my kid up from kindergarten preschool at the time and there were like moms whispering in in the parking lot kind of looking at me funny but I was like well I don't know you know that's what you get as a working mom is I don't you know I don't quite fit in at school and I thought it was that and then I started getting text messages from people. Hey, I really think you should look at this. You know what they were talking about.

I grabbed my son and someone also mentioned something to me at a school pickup. But it was like, I guess people are really out there on the internet and see things because it was just. And then I looked at it when I got home and I saw that there was a somebody had done a spoof video I think it was the spoof video and um I remember watching part of it and I was watching it with my son must have been four or something at the time and he was watching it with me and he said he calls me wall wall, Wawa, can we just turn this off? It was like, I didn't quite know that it was horribly negative. I thought, oh, that's kind of funny.

The guy's kind of funny, and my son wanted me to turn it off. I haven't actually watched it in its entirety, but then I, that night, you know, people were sending me links to things and I looked and I was like oh this this is insane I didn't even know the internet worked this way it became if there were like hashtags of free Rohan which is my son's name right that's your son's name yeah it became a thing like I'm glad you weren't on it I saw some of it I didn't see all of it and my heart went out to you I felt terrible for you because you you became a meme for like 48 hours or 72 hours like you were a meme and there were all these like people were writing parody versions of that article on medium and i think there was an article

on jezebel and a lot of people were like just like sort of like openly mocking that l article in a way that was kind of cruel and sort of funny. Like some of it's funny. Some of it's like social commentary, you know? Yeah. But it was also, there was a mean spirited to it, to some of it, like not all of it. And it's just, it's that thing that happens on the internet, that schadenfreude thing where like something happens and everyone jumps on, you know, and it becomes, it takes

on its own energy. And these people who have no connection to you or couldn't care less, just pile on, you know, and it becomes, it takes on its own energy. And these people who have no connection to you or couldn't care less, just pile on, you know, it's like that. There's a book, you know, this guy, John Ronson, he wrote a book called, uh, so you, uh, so you've been publicly shamed and he kind of looks at this sort of sociological cultural situation that we're in right now where somebody can be living their life and then they make a left turn they do one thing wrong and then the internet like destroys their life i'm like what happens to these people you know it's like this is never before in the history of humanity

has have we found ourselves in this kind of um highly charged you know kind of environment right and i felt like you got caught in the crosshairs of that for a minute. And so I'm glad I was wondering, like, one of the questions I want to ask you is like, how did that, like, how did you weather that? Like, or that must've been painful. I know that if that had been me, I would have, it would have, it would have, I mean, maybe I'm on the internet a lot more than you, but it was. No, I definitely, you know what, when my son went to sleep, I was like, well, okay, I'm not going to really watch the video because I feel like it, he felt so weird about it that it was like, well, I'm just actually not going to do that. But what, what is going on? Because then I had, you know, my phone had blown up with, are you okay?

I was like, well, I don't know. Am I okay? What should I be looking at? So I kind of dived in for a moment and just saw, I mean, it just was brutal. It was, um, like really going after my son,

um, going after, why was I a single mother? Must've been because I wouldn't let his father eat steak and he couldn't get his dick hard anymore and left yeah i mean it was like really like really went out there i was like oh wow jesus um but i did you know i did take something from that which is there there is a resistance sort of a general resistance out there. There's some confusion.

There's concern around the price of this stuff and it being inaccessible. I think it went to the core. It really pushed this button that's at the core of an issue in wellness right now, which is the kind of elitist edge of wellness, right? That if you want to be like, if you want to really maximize your wellness and live your life like Gwyneth Paltrow, that you're going to have to spend all this money that you don't have. And only the 1%, you know, can afford to have these products and, you know, engage in this lifestyle in this way.

And for a moment, you became the target of that angst and that ire. But I think what we can do is have a conversation about what the state of wellness is and the accessibility of, you know, not just your products, but the accessibility of, of maximizing and optimizing your health, irrespective or detached from your social, you know, economic status. So how do you think about that? Like, where do you see wellness going? And I mean, I think it's a problem. And I think it's a barrier that, you know, a lot of this food is like peasant food, like you can eat really well pretty cheaply. But when you start talking about cordyceps, and reishi, and moon dust, and all these sorts of things, you know, spirulina and moringa, like it does, it does add up. So how do you conceptualize that in terms of the message that you're trying to

promote and put out there to people who are just trying to like, you know, live, you know, like just the average person who's just trying to do a little bit better. Yeah. Well, so, I mean, I think that the experience was, was I crushed and hurt? Oddly not. Um, and like reading the personal, you know, like the really ugly stuff that was out there for some really weird reason, I was not crushed or hurt by it, which is strange because I'm actually a really sensitive person. Well, you must have good self-esteem. I mean, I've seen this happen.

You know, our mutual friend Doug Evans got caught in the crosshairs of this kind of thing too you know like a lot of people took hits at juicero and you know there were a lot of like articles out there that that i think treated doug unfairly and it was painful to see that and i don't think it was right and i think people are projecting that same kind of like ire about you you know, the elitism of wellness onto, onto Juicero for very similar reasons. So they're almost like analogous, um, events. Um, yeah, but you know, it also, I mean, it was also valuable because, um, I do want to keep having a conversation with people and I specifically want to keep having a conversation with people. And I specifically want to be having a conversation with all of those people that were so upset by a day of whatever the hell it was that I ate. my company, which, you know, in my mind is like, wow, I'm burning the candle at both ends to bring something to really help people. And sort of being sheltered and in my shop and just having people

come in and say that they felt so much better and that they had gotten their mom on adaptogens and how she was doing so much better and just kind of getting all of that positive feedback. And so to get an avalanche of such negative feedback and to really tune into how some people are feeling and feeling ostracized and feeling like it's bullshit. And that was also, you know, there was some value in that. And I think that it has certainly That was also, you know, there was some value in that. And I think that it has definitely inspired me to move the company in a way so that it is moving towards, um, something that can scale and be more approachable for people.

And how do you do that? And not cut quality. And that was one of the things is looking at herbs. Um, maybe juice is looking at herbs. Um, maybe juice is not that scalable and maybe that's something you should be doing at home or supporting your local person with like any type of juicer. Um, what is a product that I can go and find the best thing on earth? And I know that it's going to have a huge impact on someone's life and have hopes of being able to, um,

scale it and have that benefit, not only the quality, but the pricing and how I can reach people. And with the scale comes scale, like is the more scale you have, then the more volume you're doing and then the more affordable the product. Exactly. And that's, and that's been part of the inspiration on like do i need to hpp juice and put that out there no not really because there are enough cool juice shops all over town or in all over the

country all over the world at this point and i go frequent them and appreciate them and love them and find really great things out there. But, um, to undertake really finding all of those herbs and going through safety and potency testing and putting them together in a balanced way and finding distribution. And that, that actually is something that takes way more capital and commitment. So that was something that I felt was actually positive to scale and to bring education around. But, you know, there's so much you can do for free when it comes to wellness. And some of the things that I do for wellness are free. And you don't have to go to a fancy guru and pay him. You don't have to subscribe to some wellness site and do that. You don't have to

go on a retreat to Bali. You don't have to, the things that keep me. But that's no fun. Well, you know, it's a weird thing about, it's a weird thing about it's a weird thing about human psychology right because on the one hand like you can look at the l thing and go all you did was like say this is what i eat in a day and and people got angry they got angry because you said this is what i eat which is weird in and of itself and i can understand it like we can do a forensic analysis and i can understand why people feel that way and at the the same time, you can also tell a lot of people, like, look at all these free things. You don't need me.

Here are these free things to do. But then, but people also want to, they're like, they want to find that thing that they can pay for that makes them feel like they're in or they're invested, you know? Yeah, I mean, and also look at the world that we live in. Everyone is striving to have a bigger car, a bigger house, a bigger to have a bigger car a bigger house a bigger ring

a bigger sneaker a bigger iphone you know that's right if you tell them a sneaker costs four hundred dollars or five hundred some limited edition whatever crazy you know sneaker people want that right if you tell them like hey you should spend more money on quality food they get like angry yeah it's an interesting thing. And that's, you know, a lot of times when I talk to people, um, about the cost of wellness, I would start with, Hey, here are four things that I do for free that really keep me on track. Let's do that. Cause I think that's a good, you know, a good, I want to leave the audience with, you know, for people that either don't, can't have access to your products or can't afford them. Let's, let's get into these things.

Yeah. So the things that I would say I'd be lost without them and they really are the cornerstone of my sanity is meditating every day. And I, you know, I used to speak specifically to what my practice is. And at this point, I feel like it's actually not even important because what I have found in my own personal experience and experiencing people that are super into their practice that I haven't been into is that if you commit 20 minutes a day to just sitting with yourself quietly, and that could be in the form of drinking tea, that could be in the form of sitting with your eyes closed and repeating a mantra in your head, that could come in the form of using your breath, That could come in the form of prayer in a church.

That could come in so many different forms. But whatever that is, I think if you can give that to yourself, it's 20 minutes. I'm sure everyone spends more than 20 minutes on Instagram a day. Like, you can find that 20 minutes. You just really have to be aggressive about it. Is that something you do first thing in the morning? It's something I like to do first thing in the morning. But again, I am a mom and some mornings you wake up and have to hop on the phone or get

your kid ready for school. on the phone or get your kid ready for school. So my most secret meditations happen usually in a parked car by myself, like in a weird alley after I've dropped my kid off. And then I'm like, shit, I'm going to be late for this meeting. And I was supposed to take a call on the way to that meeting. And then I just put my phone in airplane mode and I sit in my car in an alleyway in Santa Monica, like trash trucks coming and dumping things. And I just take 20 minutes and everything gets done. Everything gets done.

I'm always a little bit late these days anyway, you know, and you weren't late here today. Well, are you? No, no, I wasn't? No, I wasn't. No, you weren't. You were on time.

No, I wasn't. I was on time, but I almost ran out of gas. Usually everyone's late coming up here because they underestimate how far away I live. No, it's good. I was not late today. So I make that happen. And that takes some time getting used to. but it's really, it's like brushing your teeth. Just think about it that way.

All right. So you got the meditation. Got the meditation. Sleep makes a huge difference with having an autoimmune condition and really riding that wave of it. When you have a condition like that, it lets me know immediately when, um, when I'm not in homeostasis just becomes so clear. And that is one of the things that will really throw me off. I don't get enough sleep. Do you have a routine to kind of lull yourself into the best possible night of sleep? I'm actually really Ariana.

I'm a really good sleeper. I don't have trouble going to sleep or staying asleep. I just have energy that will keep me talking and reading and wanting to do things. And so I do. So it's just being diligent about, and now it's time to go to sleep. I do take dream dust at night, but I actually,

I don't wait. What is that? Dream test is one of the moon tests. So it's a formula, but I take that one. Not because I'll get you that one. That one's really good. And I,

I take the brain dust. I like that one. Yeah. I brought you the new brain dust. It's really good and i i use i take the brain dust i like that one yeah i brought you the new brain dust it's really good um but the dream does actually take to i'm fine you know a little bit like a press the sleep button and i just go but there's um polygala in there which i use to it's been used traditionally to, um, metabolize some of the stuff out of the subconscious that, um, you won't do in a waking state. So it takes your sleep cycle and, um, really optimizes that like subconscious unstressing. Oh, that's interesting. That happens in the night.

So it's kind of like my sleep bump that I do. But again, sleeping's free. You don't have to do that. Right, so we got meditation free, sleep free. Sleep free. And personal relationships are so key. Having friendships in your life that you actually dedicate some time to

and dedicate time into intimacy, whether it's romantic or familial or friendship, romantic or familial or friendship. Um, that is something that I think I, you know, got caught in a work loop and a single parenting loop. Um, and I would neglect at times, um, just in, you know, friendship and family and grounding back into making time and space to sit down and have a meal with friends. Talk, not text. Actually sit and be in their presence and hug them and have that experience made a big difference. And then I... I got to get better at that.

Yeah, it really, it, I mean, intimacy with Julie's great and the family and all of that is good, but we, but I have not been, um, as engaged as a friend with a lot of my friends as I could be. Cause I am caught up in that work loop and all these things that I have to get done and, and, you know, living kind of, we live way out in the middle of nowhere. So it's, it takes a lot more time to like go into town and engage on that level and i have a couple friends that are bummed right now because like i haven't made myself available and i can i'll always be able to say i'm too busy but at some point i have to make that time and i know that's like a growth

area for me when it's just scheduling it yeah you know it's like a growth area for me. When it's just scheduling it. Yeah. You know, it's like a meeting. Just schedule it and throw it in the calendar and do that. That has been really great. working day in and day out and sometimes dating people a little bit here and there, um, but not prioritizing that and, or just not dating anyone and none of that happening. Um, and like the half-ass dating. Well, yeah, it was, I don't know. You know, it would be dating focused on one person for a little while, but somebody maybe who didn't live in the same place. Not emotionally available. Perfect. Things like that where it was like, well, I'm dating, but it's going to be over here.

So you can compartmentalize everything. Exactly. And I can keep working and keep doing all of that. And this was part of probably the meditation and the sleep and spending time with friends where I could just get really quiet and think about what I actually wanted in my life. And I realized that there was a huge gap and that I had a child and I was doing all sorts of family things like making pancakes and planting little herbs so we could watch seeds grow. But it was just me and my son and that I really wanted a partner and I wanted a male in the home and the opportunity to have more children. And so that is something that is free, giving yourself that space and time to be quiet and actually listen to what, what you really want, what your soul needs. And for me, it was also realizing that there was only a certain amount of, um, growth I was going to get on my own and diving so deep into a spiritual practice and prioritizing that was absolutely

necessary to even get to the point where I could have a partnership that I wanted, but I had reached that stage. Right. You can also use that to hide. Yes. Right. And then I was verging on that and I was aware of that. verging on that and I was aware of that. So, um, opening up and really asking for, um,

love and partnership and intimacy and, um, to have somebody that I could build something where there is microscopic truth and honesty and devotion. And also that person that is going to mirror me. So that is, I think, high quality relationships, friendships, romance, family. One of the most healing things you can do for the physical body as well. You know? And you got that going on now? I got that going on. i got that going that's good awesome i'm happy for you it's so nice great it's actually somebody that i had known for many many years oh that's good yeah cool and i've watched my physical body really change with that in ways

that you know i think sometimes you can go at things um physically sometimes you can go at things physically. Sometimes you can go at things chemically. And sometimes you need to go at things spiritually. And that is part of our spiritual nature is human interaction. Yeah, to be complete, to be fully rounded. I like that. Well, we got to wrap this up in a little bit here. But I don't want to let you go without at least diving into a little bit of nutrition guidance, you know, maybe just on a rudimentary level that you could let, you know, let people in on some takeaways about some of these herbs and these adaptogens, you know, beyond, you know, being able to access your products if they're available in boutique stores wherever people are um you know where where where can someone begin the journey of learning about this

and bringing these kinds of items into their into their homes and into their kitchens who are kind of coming from a starting point or unfamiliar with maybe they're just you know maybe they're just like just trying to eat a little bit better. What's the step one? I mean, step one through a thousand and maybe forever could just be focusing on eating plants, eating plants in all forms. And I happen to like raw plants. I don't only eat raw plants, but I love salad greens and herbs and love to get those in every day. I like to drink green juice. I make green juice in my shop, so it's easy for me to get it, but you can make it at home too.

So I mean, that could be the beginning, middle and end of a beautiful life, fully in wellness is you are sleeping, you have loving relationships, you give yourself 20 minutes to sit down and have some quiet time by yourself and you focus on eating plants. Like that sounds like wellness to me. Um, and if you do that and you feel so good and you have some extra income that you want to put towards something else or your priorities start to change and you decide, Hey, I don't want to go to the nail salon anymore. And I don't want to buy expensive shoes and I don't really need an SUV because I live in a city. And so let me get into a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle, something like that. And you find that you've got some extra income. And then I would highly recommend, um,

adding high quality fats into your life. Um, I mean, that's something you can do just in your diet. Coconut oil's great. Um, I really like ghee made in the traditional Ayurvedic way. Um, that has been revolutionized my brain health and, um, my hormone function and hormone production. Fat is good. Fat is so necessary for especially women to have that. And I think we've all been trained to think otherwise with some powerful marketing campaigns and maybe some doctors out there. But for the most part, healthy people could use some extra good fat.

But for the most part, healthy people could use some extra good fat. So avocados, nuts and seeds, ghee. Mineralizing has also been really great for me and my nervous system and brain function. What does that mean, mineralizing? Well, eating foods that are going to be higher in minerals. of the things that and that's something where i'll actually look at supplementing sometimes um so if you want to go for the craziest thing out there i really recommend kintan um which is something that you can order online i'm sure what is that i've never heard of that oh my god really kintan i have to get you some. What is it? I love it. Okay, so it's this, it is this, these minerals that are harvested off the coast of Spain.

And they, it was originally discovered by Dr. Quintan, you know, over 100 years ago. And so there are libraries of his research and findings on this. But it is a plankton bloom that happens in the ocean. And that plankton bloom happens in this deep sea vortex. And so all of these ancient minerals from this mineral bed churn up and they come and the plasma from the plankton bloom will is a non-discriminant host so another way i like to mineralize is i love eating seaweeds um right because it just captures it condenses all of those minerals that are passing through the sea just pulling what the plant needs to grow

it's this perfect host that pulls all of it so that's cold harvested and then they're put in little glass vials and you can take those. You're going to freak out. I love them. But that's like crazy. That's super high end stuff. That's when I make people angry. People are going to get really mad right now. I know. Shit. You're going to get hate mail. So if you want to go crazy, do that. But seaweed is so great. And they sell seaweed at Target now. I, like, went and got some seaweed in Target in Minneapolis. It's amazing to me, like, I have a practice where I just put, like, some really good chlorophyll and some lemon in water and drink it in the morning.

And you just feel amazing. Something about the, you know, the, the, the green Marine plant life that is like, so energizing. Yeah. You just feel your blood come alive. And, um, so again, like you could just have the most amazing life and stop there. Um, if you want more, you could eat all the crazy Kington and stop there. If you want more... Or you could eat all the crazy quinton and whatever all day long, but if your relationships are a disaster and you're an asshole and whatever, that's not... And I've also been to...

It doesn't matter what you're eating. I've been to that place. Yeah. I've been to that place of, Jesus, I couldn't meditate anymore. I couldn't take any more adaptogen. I couldn't have any more adaptogen. I couldn't have any more green juice. I'm avoiding anything that could possibly be harmful. But I was not sleeping enough or I was not making enough space in my life to also be a human being on the planet that got to have a family and experience love and friendship.

And I was in the worst health of my life. You know? Right. As this poster child for ultimate wellness. Yeah, when you're the poster child. The irony into that is. For, you know know ultimate wellness and i just had chronic inflammation that i couldn't get rid of so hard on wellness that you're just

completely unwell your thyroid stops you don't you know you've got like an inch of inflammation that lives underneath your skin and you just can't figure it out. And it's like that really obvious thing that was there that probably, you know, my grandmother could have told me, which is, honey, you just need to lay down and get some really good rest. And, you know, you're probably a little bit lonely. I think you work too hard. So. a little bit lonely. I think you work too hard. So. Well, cool. Um, I think, you know, the good, the most powerful kind of takeaway or through line through this whole thing is just this idea of taking responsibility for this journey for yourself. Like it started with you recognizing that early on and, and, and believing and having faith that there was a better way for you and then experimenting and learning.

And I think everybody can engage in their version of that path to their own benefit. I don't see any downside in people educating themselves and really not relying on these third parties to tell them what drug to take. Not to say that you know those that medications aren't appropriate in many many situations but to just really as long as you're feeling develop agency over over this rather than divesting yourself of any responsibility and and relying on other people to tell you what to do yeah beautiful how do you feel i felt great i feel like you and i have to talk about gas stations because i've got eight miles left in my tank tell me there's a gas station tricky within eight miles

well it might be seven and it might be nine okay you know what i'll follow you though in case something happens okay we'll figure it out okay i've also got triple a got AAA. Is that like swimming in the back of your mind the whole time that you're going to run out of gas going home? No, but it was definitely swimming in my mind. I was going uphill to get here. It was like, you have four miles left. I checked. I was like, oh, I'm eight miles away.

This is so interesting. Do I have cell service up here? There's cell service. Internet, not so good. Gas station, far away. Then once I started posting downhill to you, because I came from the PCH. All right, we'll go together. I'll make sure that you get gas. Then the numbers started climbing.

Then I had 14 miles of gas. All right, cool. Thank you for coming and talking to me. That was beautiful. I am wishing you much success. Is there going to be, like, what's the next step with Moon Juice? Like, what are you working? I know you're doing some more formulations and stuff be like, what's the next step with moon juice? Like, what are you working?

I know you're doing some more formulations and stuff like that, but are you? Oh man, so many things, many things. I'm writing another book right now, which is not going to be exactly like the last one. I get to show, I get to nerd out a little bit more on what I'm really interested in, you know, the neuroendocrine system, the thyroid, how adaptogens actually do work on the body. I'm getting really excited about doing collages and illustrations on, on really like, what is the HPA axis? We all hear about it. We all kind of know about it, but let's really get into it. Cause once I started learning about that and drawing charts for myself and knowing my body in that way. And again, I'm obsessed with this because that I have difficulty

there. Um, things really started to click and make sense and And I could tune in and, again, help myself. You have the education. You know what's working for you and what's not. And to address that. So the second book is just diving much deeper into that. We've got Moondust chocolates that just came out. They're just in the stores. We've got the new dust formulation that just launched last week. And do you ship direct to consumer if people go to

your website oh you do yeah cool it's my favorite way to reach people yeah yeah yeah um is that international like no matter where if somebody's listening to this in like new zealand or whatever so there are some countries we don't ship to yet and um but net-aorter does. Uh-huh. So they kind of cover the EU and Asia for us. Is it just moonjuice.com? Yeah, moonjuice.com. Yeah. Sephora is launching our Moondust in a couple of weeks, which is super exciting. And that, again, is that scale thing that I'm talking about and opening up the conversation.

And I'm so, can I curse on this podcast? Oh, I have shit. I am so fucking excited to be in a place where there are predominantly women, but there are so millions of women going into Sephora all over the world and of women going into Sephora all over the world and they are going in to get something for their eyelashes or shampoo or you know whatever it is and for them to be able to stumble across what I know to be the highest quality ashwagandha in the world to find a product with that and to be able to reach that person in that moment and get that plant into them is, I can't tell you how excited I am about that.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's mainstream. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's pretty cool and exciting. Yeah.

Awesome. So, yeah. All right. Well, good talking to you. Okay. Thanks, Rich. Thanks so much. So if you want to connect with Amanda, moonjuice.com for the products, netaporte.com for the products.

You personally, if people want to say hello to you, where can they do that? I'm at moonjuiceshop on Instagram. I also have a personal handle there. But, you know, if you follow the Moon Juice shop, cause that's actually still me. Is it? All me. Taking those pictures, typing it out. No, I have, I have a great team that's starting to work with me now, but I'm, I'm all over that. Say hi there. And then when I show up places, we'll put a little notice out, come find me. I love more than anything when I go out and talk and see you guys. So cool. You're a powerful

manifester and you're putting good stuff out into the world. And it's cool to see, uh, you know, a woman, a single mom build this incredible business that is helping people. So I commend you for that. Oh, thanks. And it's awesome. I can't wait to see what you do next. And I can't wait for the new book. Thank you. In the meantime, check out the Moon Juice Cookbook.

It really is a work of art. Can you just get this everywhere on Amazon and all that kind of stuff? Yeah. Yeah. It's really quite something. And that's it. Yeah. Well, come back when your new book comes out.

We can go more in-depth into all the crazy adaptions and stuff. Yeah, we'll nerd out. We can book comes out we can talk we can go more in depth into all the crazy adaptions yeah we'll nerd out we can like get really granular holiday 2018 we'll just we'll like seriously nerd out on my favorite organs and herbs we're gonna make it happen okay all right amanda take it easy thanks peace and plants and adaptogens. Awesome. All right, we did it. It's over. It's concluded. Conversation is complete. What did you guys think? I liked it. I think she's really cool. It was so soothing and calming to talk to her. It's almost like she's a human adaptogen or something like that. Anyway, I found it delightful. Of course, as soon as we ended the podcast, Amanda asked me, well, what are you using nutritionally in terms of performance and recovery

leading into the low race? And I answer her, I tell her about my smoothies, et cetera. And then I'm like, well, what do you think I should be doing? And then I'm like, duh, why didn't you ask her about that on the podcast? That would have been a perfect subject matter to explore with her. So that's my bad. I'm sorry about that. But anyway, she gave me all of this stuff, a bunch of her products that I took with me to Sweden. She gave me her power dust, which has all kinds of great stuff in it, like cordyceps, which are awesome for boosting endurance and adaptogens like schizandra and rhodiola and astrologus. And I like this stuff.

She also gave me her dream dust concoction for helping facilitate a better night's sleep. And I've been using that. It's got a bunch of super herbs in it and adaptogens for relaxation. So anyway, thank you, Amanda, for that gift. For more on Amanda, of course, go to moonjuice.com. She's on Instagram at moonjuiceshop. Maybe go to Instagram, give her a shout out, let her know what you thought of the conversation. Also, I have another really cool announcement I want to make for you guys.

Lots of people reach out to me to tell me about the challenge they're either competing in or that they're hosting or producing. But I wanted to tell you about one that really stands out. You guys remember Jesse Itzler? He was on the podcast. He's the Living with a Seal guy. That was episode 197. Super charismatic guy, really popular podcast episode, good friend, and just a, I don't know what to say about it.

He's an amazing person. Anyway, he rented out the entire Stratton Mountain in Vermont for a weekend this October, October 13th through 15th. And the challenge is this. You run, jog, or walk up the mountain, and then you take the ski lift down, and then you repeat that, and you keep doing it until you climb the equivalent of Mount Everest. That's 29,029 feet. He's creating his own base camp village, and he's limiting the whole thing to 150 people, which I think is a really amazing thing. So if you want more information on this wild challenge on Everesting, go to 29029.com.

That's 2-9-0, spell it out, Z-E-R-O, and then the number 29.com. And I'll put that link up in the show notes as well. It's a very cool idea. Congrats, Jesse. I wish I could be there for this. It sounds totally wild. Again, 29029.com. So how are you guys doing with your nutrition? Have you mastered this plant-based nutrition thing yet? Come on, you guys. Are you plant-powered? Are you plant-perfect? Are you plant-centric? Are you plant-strong? What is going on? I get so many messages from people. They're like, I love what you do, Rich, but I just can't figure out how to make this plant-based nutrition thing work. Despite all the cookbooks and the podcasts and, I don't know, everything that I'm putting out into the world, I understand that that toolbox is still lacking a certain number of critical utensils to make it stick. And that's why we created our Plant Power Meal Planner. It's this incredibly powerful,

robust, online, mobile-friendly resource tool that takes all the mystery and guesswork out of the whole affair at an incredibly affordable $1.90 a week, which is basically loose change. And in exchange for that, you get an amazing package of tools that are going to allow you to step into this lifestyle, to make this switch, and make it stick. You're getting thousands of plant-based recipes, unlimited meal plans and grocery lists. We're now metric system compliant for everybody who is not in the United States. And everything is totally personalized and customized based on your goals

and your food preferences and your allergies and your time constraints. We have amazing customer support from a team of experts, not some people that are sitting in cubicles somewhere overseas that don't even speak the English language. I'm talking about real people who live and breathe this stuff, people with graduate degrees in nutrition, athletes, moms, people that have been plant-based for years and are there for you to answer all of your questions, no matter how rudimentary, how elementary. We also have grocery delivery in 22 metropolitan areas. Basically, you put in all the recipes that you want based on all your customized preferences, and it will just automatically deliver the groceries you need to make those recipes. It's amazing. We're getting amazing feedback. People are really digging it. I'm

really proud of this product. It is essentially everything you need to make all of this stuff work. No more excuses, you guys. So for more information, go to meals.richroll.com or click on the meal planner at the top menu on my website, richroll.com. If you'd like to support this show and my work, you can support it in a number of ways. We have a Patreon account for people who want to financially support what I'm doing, and I appreciate everybody who is doing that. I only want people to do that if you can afford it. Basically, if you can't just go to Starbucks and get whatever you want or whatever, then please don't contribute to the Patreon. But if you do have some extra loose

change, it really does help us out a lot and I greatly appreciate it. Otherwise, just share it with your friends and on social media. Leave a review on iTunes and make sure you hit that subscribe button. If you would like to receive a free short weekly email from me, I send one out every week. Well, mostly every week. Again, I missed this week again. I'm on a writing deadline right now and I just didn't get to roll call. I've been really hit or miss with this thing, but I love doing it. I think I'm going to send one out Monday. In any event, it's a free short weekly email, just five or six cool things that I came across over the course of the week. Usually a couple articles that I found compelling, a podcast I listened to, a documentary I watched, a short video that I enjoyed, or a product that is benefiting my life.

That's it. You can sign up for it. Again, it's free. There's no affiliate links. I'm not trying to sell you anything or make any money off it, but you can sign up for it on my website. Just enter your email in any of those little email capture windows. And that's it, you guys. I want to thank everybody who helped put on the show today. Jason Camiello for audio engineering and production, Sean Patterson for graphics and theme music, as always, by Annalema. Thanks for the love, you guys. I really appreciate it. The New York Times. I can't believe it. The New York Times.

See you guys soon. Peace. Bye. Thank you.