The Rich Roll Podcast - Big Mountain Skier Lynsey Dyer On Sport As Art

Episode Date: August 7, 2017

Imagine being the very best in your sport. Undefeated, the future is bright indeed. But deep down the zero sum game of competition just doesn't sit right. Because for you, sport isn't about winners and losers. It's about play. It's about freedom. It's about love. But mostly it's about artistic self-expression. This is the story of Lynsey Dyer. One of the best big mountain skiers on the planet, Lynsey is an extraordinary and most unexpected athletic talent who walked away from competition at the peak of her potential to courageously blaze her own path. A unique path that has helped refine what it means to pursue sport professionally. A path based not on podiums but on adventure. Seeking joy. Empowering others. And expressing one's unique voice. Over the course of a decade long career, Lynsey has won every big mountain competition that she entered. She has also won several freesking competitions and awards including the 2004 International Free Skiers Association North American tour champion. In 2010, Powder Magazine awarded her Best Female Performance for her role in Magic Moments. She has been awarded Female Skier of the year by Powder Magazine, was the first female to be on the cover of Freeskier Magazine and has starred in too many ski films to mention, including projects from legendary filmmaker Warren Miller. Lynsey has starred in or hosted television shows for NBC, ESPN, Bravo, The Ski Channel, Mountainfilm and Outside Television, has appeared on Good Morning America and even produced, directed and starred in her own film, the widely acclaimed Pretty Faces — an all female ski film featuring the best athletes from around the world that beautifully celebrates female empowerment and the transformative power of play. When she isn't crushing powder, Lynsey can be found running her non-profit SheJumps.org, which encourages girls and women to participate in the outdoors through mentorship, and her movie production and apparel company Unicorn Picnic. An unconventional badass, Lynsey is the personification of strength in femininity. A role model for young women across the world with an ethos I'd like my own daughters to emulate. This is a conversation about Lynsey's remarkable life. It's about female impact on a male dominated subculture. It's about courage in defying external expectations to follow your own unique path. It's about the joy and freedom that come from blazing a life of adventure. Simply put, it's a conversation about what it means to pursue sport as art. It was a pleasure connecting with Lynsey. I sincerely hope you enjoy the exchange. Peace + Plants, Rich

That's my hope with the videos is that it can inspire people to get outside and have that experience and that it's not all scary. Like, it's welcoming and it's magical. That's why I bring in the unicorn, especially for girls, because it takes this thing that people have primarily seen as extreme and, oh, I could never do that, to it's fun and it's playful and it's magical. But what's also cool is it reminds older people of their childhood too when anything was possible

and there was magic and you could, you believed in your dreams. And so I'm all for it. Young, actual children and those who used to be children, I want to bring them back. And I think mountains do that. And when you play, when you remember that state. That's Lindsay Dyer, this week on The Rich Roll Podcast.

The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. How are you guys doing? What's happening? My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. Welcome or welcome back to my podcast, the show where each week I go deep, I get intimate, I go long form with some of the most compelling paradigm shifters, thought leaders, high performers, spanning a wide spectrum of perspectives across everything from health and wellness to fitness, entrepreneurship, art, athletics, and more. And this week's guest is no exception to that role, Lindsay Dyer. Lindsay is a professional skier, but she's a most unexpected one, really an extraordinary

athlete who has blazed her own unique path in her sport skiing. And I think in many ways has really helped to redefine what it means to pursue sports professionally in this era in 2017. Uh, Lindsay is one of the best big mountain skiers in the world over the course of a decade long career. She has won every single big mountain competition that she entered. She has also won several free skiing competitions and awards, including the 2004 International Free Skiers Association North America Tour Champion. In 2010, Powder Magazine awarded her Best Female Performance for her role in Magic Moments. She has been awarded Female Skier of the Year by Powder Magazine. She was the first female to be on the cover of Free Skier Magazine and has starred in many, many films. She also, very interestingly, produced, directed, and starred in her own film.

It's called Pretty Faces. It was widely acclaimed. And it's really this beautiful cinematic tribute to female empowerment through sport. She has also starred in or hosted many television shows for NBC, ESPN, Bravo, The Ski Channel, Mountain Film, and outside television, and has been featured in too many media outlets to mention, including Good Morning America. Basically, Lindsay is a total badass. And all of those accomplishments are super cool, but it's not the real reason why I wanted to talk to her. And I'll explain the real reason in a moment, but first. All right, Lindsay Dyer. So one of the really interesting things about Lindsay is, as I mentioned at the outset, how she carved out her own niche as a professional.

Because this is somebody, an athlete, who at the top of her game, when she was winning all these big mountain competitions, she decided to just up and walk away. Not from skiing, but from competition. Now, conventional wisdom would dictate that that would end her career as a professional skier, but Lindsay is anything but conventional, and she was able to find her own unique way to redefine what it means to be pro, carving out this really interesting dynamic career outside of competition, which I guess in certain respects is akin to what Laird Hamilton has done in surfing.

In any event, Lindsay first came onto my radar several years ago. I'm not sure exactly when, but Julie and I both became obsessed with her Instagram posts, not just the beautiful photographs of mountains and travel and these epic ski images, but really like the vibe, you know, it was a vibe that is, was, is unapologetically female, but female on her own terms, by her own definition, strong, confident, you know, this attitude of taking no prisoners and always kicking ass somebody that you can feel great looking up to as a female role model. In ethos, I'd like my daughters to emulate.

Or really a role model for young women across the world. And after following her adventures for so long, Julie and I decided that we had to meet her. So we invited her out to our house to visit. She agreed. She came out. We spent an awesome several days together doing all sorts of

cool stuff. But this podcast is just one of the gifts of that experience. And I'm excited to share it with you guys today. So this is a conversation about what it's like being an accomplished woman in a mostly male dominated world of sports. It's about the power of following your own unique voice and not caving to social expectations or professional expectations or familial expectations to fit into a certain box. It's about what comes along with being different and how to remain authentic to yourself, a theme of this show, of course, and the beauty of adventure and exploring. And finally, what it means to her to be this role model. So with that said, I give you this fantastic conversation with Lindsay Dyer.

Lindsay Dyer, how are you? I'm awesome. I'm so excited to have you in the container studio to do the podcast thanks for coming down and visiting us yeah it's beautiful here thank you for having me how was the uh beach this morning stunning yeah what'd you guys do went surfing um stand up and it's just it's stunning you were down there with June right right? June and Julie and Travis. That's cool. June's a mermaid.

She's a total mermaid. And so you were able, were the waves any good down there? Yeah, there was waves this week. And I asked you this last night, but I'm curious, and maybe people who are listening are curious, like how does the skill set of skiing translate to surfing? It seems like it would be fairly direct. I think at least the athletic stance once you're up, but everything else is totally foreign. And

I'm just, I'm a kook. Yeah. So you're just learning. I've, I've been learning for like a long time, but you don't do, you don't do it as consistently as you ski, obviously. No, I'm a, I get, you know, maybe a couple chances maybe a couple chances a year for less than a week to give it a shot. Right. But man, yeah, surfing is hard. It's hard, man. It's really hard. It will humble you for sure.

It's definitely humbled me and frustrated me. But it's also those tiny little moments make you come back. I remember the best ride that was so long ago and it's keeping me coming back. Yeah. It's like drugs. Like you're just trying to seek that hot, that high that you got, you know, like, uh, that's what gets its claws in you. You know, you get that one good ride and that keeps you getting out there and, you know, falling on your face a thousand more times, just in search of that, that one like blissful moment. Right. just in search of that one blissful moment, right?

Yep, yep. Well, cool. Well, so many things to dig into today. But I think the best way to kick it off really is just kind of create a little context and set the stage. When I think of you, I think of you as this incredibly powerful, positive role model for female empowerment, you know, that obviously is directly related to your, you know, your athletic accomplishments and what you do on the mountain, but really transcends that. Like you have a really strong message that

is reaching a lot of people as this, you know, sort of example of what it means to be like a kick-ass chick that shreds, you know what I mean? That in many ways, I think, can be qualified as a redefinition of what it means to be, you know, a strong young woman with, you know, with a message and with a skill set. And, you know, I think it's been transformative in a lot of people's lives. And I just want to thank you personally for being a role model as a father of two young girls. I think it's really cool. That means the world to me. Yeah, you know, it's wow, you're strong and you have integrity and you do it with grace, you know, and I think that it takes a lot of, you know, inner self-esteem and composure to be able to do that in the face of what I would imagine are pressures that you face daily to do it a different way or to fit into kind of, you know, how other people would like you to do it.

Right. I really appreciate that I come off that way because I do not feel all those things that you just said. You don't? So thank you. How do you feel? Every day is, there's no roadmap. You know, there's no, this is how they did it before, so this is the next step. Does that make sense?

So it's always, I have to ask, I'm stumbling. I always feel like I'm stumbling. Yeah, but you're following your intuition and you're following your heart. You know, in the same way, like, you know, when you look at someone like Laird Hamilton, there's no roadmap for what that guy has done. You know, I'm sure there were pressures on him to be a competitive surfer and he just blazed his own path and be able to, you know, he's been able to create this whole kind of thing that he does. But there was no example that preceded him.

You know, and I think in the skiing world, especially as a female skier, like there's no there's nobody who was doing what you were doing before you were doing it. You know what? There actually were. The trouble is that I wasn't exposed to them and not very many people were. I wasn't exposed to them and not very many people were. And that's what I had to find out was that there are incredible women that have come before me. But the trouble is no one gave them a voice. No one gave them a stage to expose them to young girls like me who needed legitimate real role models, not models who are just faking it carrying the surf board you know the first thing uh that had an impact on me as a young girl was the roxy catalog

and of course i wanted to be a roxy girl right because i was like oh surfer girl i want to be a surfer girl and um and then when i found out that they didn't actually surf, they were just models. They were just models. I was crushed. I was devastated. And that was kind of a motivator to say, I'm going to be that. I'm going to show you that we can do things. We can do things.

We're not just there to look good. That's not the fun part. The fun part is riding the wave. Right, being the person who actually embodies that. Yeah, I don't want to be the cheerleader on the sidelines. I want to, well, I'm terrible at basketball, but I want to participate. Right. And to the extent that there were women that preceded you, of course there were.

And I say this a lot on the podcast. It's important to shine a spotlight on powerful women that are setting an example for young girls. And it seems like there aren't very many of them that are doing that. But of course there are. We're just not very good at shining the spotlight on them. And so, you know, I feel a responsibility when I see someone like yourself or Robin Arzon or people that are like, you know, blazing these awesome paths to like celebrate that. Yeah, it's definitely shifting now. I mean, that's why I made the film that I did was to expose young girls to all these role models that do exist, all these incredible athletes that are creating this life that to show that, yes, you belong out here too, because look at, look at all these women that are doing it, that aren't necessarily being

used in, in marketing campaigns that go to mass media. Right. So how do you think, did you, were you conscious of this decision? Like I'm going to do this and I'm going to find a way to have a voice. Like, did you plan that out or did it happen organically just through the, you know, kind of, you know, natural expression that you would have kind of exuded otherwise? A hundred percent organically. I never imagined I would be sitting here or ever have gotten paid to ski ever, ever in a thousand years. When I get these emails that say, how do you become a pro skier? I'm like, I have no idea. Wrong question,

because that was never my intention. Right. Well, I mean, you're a pro skier, but you're not a pro skier and the traditional idea of what a pro skier is or does. I don't know. What is a traditional? I don't know. Well, somebody who's like on, you know, like sort of competing professionally, right? Like going to the Olympics and doing that circuit, whatever it's called. Yeah. I mean, I competed in the junior Olympics in high school and won the junior Olympics when I was young, but you know, that's, uh, that's not something like nationally televised or anything. And yeah, um, I, what I do now, I would have never imagined that most people probably don't imagine that it's possible. Right. And you had that opportunity, right? So let's,

let's take it back to the beginning. Um, you grew up in that opportunity, right? So let's take it back to the beginning. You grew up in Jackson Hole, right? I actually grew up in Sun Valley, Idaho. Oh, in Sun Valley. I always confuse those two. was my cousin. Her name's AJ Cargill. And she would literally kidnap me from my ski races at 13 and make me go ski powder. And I would miss the whole, the whole race weekend. I'd be chasing the bus on the way out of town to go back to, back to sun Valley after like missing all my races, jumping off cliffs with my cousin. So you'd go, you'd go out of town to these ski resorts to race and then you would blow it off and then just go backcountry? I mean, that happened one time, and it was life-changing.

But yeah, I grew up... Yeah, before that. I mean, your parents were both avid skiers, right? Yeah, it's a pretty cute story. They met on the mountain. And mom likes to tell it that, you know, dad said, I'll meet you at the bottom. And she was there waiting for him. It's pretty cute. She was from Michigan. He was from Seattle. He was a pro racer at the time.

So on the downhill circuit. And she loved skiing. But was a fashionista. And so how old were they when they met? Like, were they just doing the ski bum thing at that time or were they both living there? I think they were chasing this ski bum lifestyle in Sun Valley in the 70s. You know, that's when it was, you know, that started our whole, I don't know, just the brilliance of the ski bum lifestyle.

Warren Miller living in the parking lot of sun valley uh you know i grew up going to warren miller ski films where i watched this whole community come together around this sport that i loved and uh that most people couldn't understand and it was those are some of the best memories i have both of our family and just really seeing community come together around this thing that feels like flying that you can't powder skiing. You know, there's, there was no way to win an award at powder skiing, but that was what lit me up, you know, but initially you went that traditional route of, you know, ski racing, right. When you were a little kid, junior Olympics and all that kind of stuff.

Right, the only way to continue skiing was to go the race route. My dad wasn't okay with me going the moguls. He said, you'd blow out your knees. And if I have a regret, it's not going that route because I probably would have gone to the Olympics around 16, frankly, because there wasn't much competition. Right, I mean, you won Junior Olympics And right. I mean, you want you want Junior Olympics, right? I mean, your star was rising and that was kind of the path that was laid out in front of you as a ski racer.

Yes. But I was never really passionate about chasing gates. You know, I never I remember the moment that I didn't understand what what it was. So I remember being so confused, like, like okay so you go around a blue thing and then a red thing and you remember like i'm like young right um and then a blue thing and a red thing and you get judged on how fast you get to the bottom and it depends the people that are celebrated versus those that are not are are separated by hundreds and tenths of a second. It didn't make any sense to me. And I remember the moment that it taught me to compare myself to others

versus what I knew about skiing, which was this thing that you did with your friends all at the same time, soaring down a mountain partially out of control as fast as you could. And that's why skiing was so fun to me. So what do you make of that? Did you have an awareness at that early that? I mean, did you have an awareness at that, at that early age? Like, I don't know about competition, like this to see, it sounds like you did, like you were aware, like this seems odd. It was, it was really odd,

but succeeding anyway. Well, I was a pleaser, you know, and, uh, and I wanted to make everyone proud. Like I think so many females do, You do what you're told and you do what is expected. And it wasn't like it was that regimented, but I loved skiing and the ski racing was a way to continue doing it. And you don't really, I didn't know what I wanted to do, right? It was sort of like, well, that's just what you do. You go to skiing and you go to ballet and you go to soccer and you go to softball. I didn't think a whole lot about it. I never imagined taking it super far. I didn't have that dream to go to the Olympics or anything. You didn't, even though like that was a very realistic possibility for you, you were like, take it or leave it.

Like it wasn't that important to you? No, I never saw it until I started recognizing that my coaches and I guess community had me on that path. Fundraising events and whatnot. I remember going to an event where they had me put on this T-shirt and it had my results on the back of it. And I realized that it was a fundraising event. results on the back of it. And I realized that it was a fundraising event. And that was the first time that, uh, I heard that I was sponsored, that I had actual donors supporting my training and travel, uh, because my family, we didn't, I had no idea what it costs to be going to Europe and, uh, all these races. And did that feel like pressure on your shoulders that you didn't want?

Absolutely. I, I kind of cracked under that. Once I realized, I mean, they called it the Olympic Development Program. And I was like, what? So you expect me to go there? Yeah, I crumbled. I had no idea. And was training like intense at that time? Was it regimented and structured?

Or were you just going out and shredding at will? It was intense, but I loved it because I loved my coaches and they were incredible role models and chasing them around the mountain on powder days was, was, you know, what it got me so excited. Like I said, just on the edge of control and then all summer to, to please them and to make them proud i and my brother showed up in the gym every morning at five lifting awful amounts of weight hating every second of it but that that fall uh i think i was 15 um went to europe and started beating the boys. And yeah, I just didn't even, I had no idea. It wasn't really like registering on you. It really wasn't.

That's so interesting. No, yeah, I don't know. So throughout high school, you're doing this and you end up getting like a scholarship, right? To college? So that's kind of once in skiing, when you go to college, you're kind of essentially put out to pasture. You know, it's kind of like you're done. Right, because if you're serious about the Olympics, you just bypass college and just focus on that, right?

Exactly. You know, so when I started, a couple of tough things happened when I started really performing and sort of unaware. I just I had this power and the strength that I hadn't had before. And it allowed me to, I guess, take risks. But they weren't they didn't feel like risks because I had the strength to, I don't know, do some magical things on snow. to, I don't know, do some magical things on snow. But what came of it was heavy bullying. When I started doing well, I had heavy bullying all the way through high school.

And it was all from high school, even into college, from my own teammates, particularly the boys. Because why? Like, you were excelling. Like I would imagine you're one of the best, right? Are there a bunch of other girls or is it mostly boys? Guys and girls, but it's an individual sport, you know? And growing up in a wealthy town doesn't necessarily mean that everyone's happy. You know, I think a lot of people think that, oh, if, so we grew up,

I grew up actually like in an average home, but I thought we were poor, right? Because I didn't. You guys were super wealthy. Yeah, I didn't. My parents both worked. So I was kind of, I got picked up at school by other parents and went to ballet. Because you're like a townie, sort of. Is that sort of what it was like?

I mean, ski resort towns are very unique ecosystems, right? I don't know. See, I don't know how to compare it, right? Right. I called myself, I thought, when I found out what a latchkey kid was, I was like, oh, I guess I'm a latchkey kid. Meaning, you remember what that term meant? It meant that your parents are both working.

Yeah. You come home after. Right. Right. And and then I felt badly about that. But off the subject. Bullying. Yeah, I guess.

Bullying you for for what? Like because they were competitive with you? I think there's a couple things. I think in retrospect, there just was some really unhappy kids that weren't getting attention from their parents, that really needed some love from their parents. I mean, I would lay in bed at night and try to think of comebacks that would make them leave me alone.

Because there was really just one ringleader, but the rest of them followed. And as actually a kid in particular that I grew up with, like our families were friends when we were really young. We took baths together when we were like, you know, we have baby pictures together. And it was really sad. And it was a long time. And so I guess that would be something if I had something I could say to any and it was a long time. And so I guess if I, uh, that would be something, if I had a, something I could say to any kid that was being bullied now, um, one, it gets better.

And I, I feel like now, um, it made me tough. And I, I, if I could tell kids, I'd say like, this is your warrior ship and there, there might be nothing that you can do about it except that, um, it's never, it, um, it, it's made me strong. Like, um, it's amazing how many like really high performing people that I know. And a lot of people that I've had on the podcast were bullied as young people. You know what I mean? Because you're a little bit left of center or you're a little bit different or you're thinking outside the box. And that's not always so good when you're in fifth, sixth, seventh grade.

In this case, though, I think it was straight up competition. And I'm a team sport person. I didn't like the fact that someone else had to lose so that I could win. It just wasn't my thing. I like the we. I loved soccer. I loved softball.

I loved genuinely hoping someone else would play to their best so that we could win, so that we could celebrate. And yeah, I just, I didn't, I even, when I did well, I felt bad because other people were sad. And when I did, when I didn't perform, I felt bad because, you know, you're taught to. Like if you didn't, if you don't win,

there are times when I would say, I didn't feel like I deserved to eat. It's weird. It's almost like you've set up your own little prison because you excel at these individual sports. And yet this is the feeling that it's giving you. Yeah. And I don't mean to take anything away from skiing or ski racing because it taught me so many other so many important things. Discipline and showing up when I didn't want to and showing up in all conditions and, uh, you know, getting comfortable with the uncomfortable and pushing myself. I mean,

a thousand things. And when I finally decided to do, do it for myself, use all those skills that I had been taught from my coaches and from the program, I took off, you know, when I could finally, uh finally get behind them from my heart instead of the shoulds. Right. And we're going to build towards that. But prior to that, so you're being bullied and you're sort of souring on this idea of competition. Like, do you reach some kind of, you know, burnout situation when you're in high school where you're like, I'm done with this? Absolutely. I think just the pressure. Like I said, if a lot of us got to the point where if you weren't performing, then it's your whole life, right? It's your identity.

Absolutely. 100% of your identity. And especially in a ski town, that's probably all anyone's talking about, right? Right. It's like football in Texas or something like that. Yeah. If I wasn't in the newspaper, it was like, right. I didn't go to school much. I didn't, uh, yeah, it was my whole life. So is there a point where you just quit outright or you just ship gears with your skiing or what did that look like at that time? So I used it to, to get a scholarship into school and went to the design design program and at msu bozeman division one ski racing um but yeah super burnt out so you continue to ski in college but it's not the same thing no no it's not the same thing um and again it was just an excuse to to train to continue to train hard to build friendships and um to, to, you know, check out this

new thing called college. Right. And, and that's where you, is that where you kind of discover this love of art and design? Did you always have that? I'd always had that. Um, my parents assumed that I would, I was going to go into art, not athletics. Uh, I was, I'm actually, um, not, I mean, my dad even says it. Like, you had to work hard. Your brother had the talent. So I'm not. I don't know if that's such a nice thing to say.

It's our family joke. So is your brother a super talented skier? He was talented at everything athletically. What's he doing now? He is, has the regular now? He has the typical, he's got a house and a kid and a two-car garage and wife. Does he live in Sun Valley still? Yep. He does.

And he was a ski racer also. He ski raced, he played baseball, he did everything easily. A normal guy. Yeah. Like normal guy. Yeah. Normal guy, but also just never really found his, his thing that he was super passionate about. You know, I almost wonder if it was, it was too easy. Um, and yeah.

So you go to college, you start studying design and art and all these beautiful pursuits, but I feel like the turning point for you was really when you did this semester. Was it a semester or a year when you went to Italy? Wow, you did some research. I always do some research. Well done. Well done. So yeah, I went to school,

got into the design program. Incredible. No one would think it, but it had an incredible design program, incredible professor that is still a huge role model and friend. But he wasn't in the beginning. So I went to school in Italy for a year abroad. And it was...

Like Florence or where did you go? It was such an incredible program. We traveled all over, all over the country from Florence to Rome to, we spent a month in the Umbria countryside studying printmaking in a castle. Wow. Like traditional old school printmaking. And I could run through the, the orchards and the olive fields every day.

And, but I was the only athlete and, and it was great. Not one conversation had to do with sports and it was so good for me. And that's really the first time you'd ever really taken a break from skiing, right? First ever have a life outside of that. Yeah. It was incredibly good for my sense of the world that there is more to life then. Yeah. I think it's hard.'s hard um you know when you're a high-performing athlete there's a lot of fear around even taking a taking a break at all like let alone like an entire year like did you go did you ski in the wintertime when you were in italy

or just nothing not at all and i didn't like a reinvention like a rebirth like a a a period of like discovery absolutely it was so good for me. And so you're like making, you're doing, you're making prints and studying art and going to the museums and all that kind of stuff. Cool. And so when that wraps up, I assume you're with other students from your school. Like do you did it as a group? And when you go back, do you have a different perspective on your skiing or some clarity on like what you wanted to do and be? Actually, I was still following the, the should model, right? Which is you go to college, you get good grades so that you can

get a good job, you know? Uh, and so the next, uh, step seemed to be go get an internship and being competitive. I got the best internship I could. Um, it was actually, uh, and I, I was getting paid a lot in, it was in San Francisco, um, at a video game, um, uh, company. And what was the mission statement of this video game company? I went to one of the, it was incredible place to work. I mean, really, it was as good as you get. There was soccer games at lunch and there was paid for spin classes that I could take at any time. That whole like sort of startup San Francisco vibe going on. Yeah, there are brilliant people around me, brilliant designers and creators.

I was actually a video game character that was really fun. You know, they used my, modeled my body off of, and I got to be a character. That was fun. off of and I got to be a character. That was fun. Um, but yeah, I, I went to one of the, you know, the meetings, um, you know, company-wide meetings where they, they get you all fired up and give you the vision. And their vision was that, um, people would spend more time online in their online life, their avatar life than they did in their regular life that was their goal and as soon as i heard that i was i had to run you're like i can't i can't participate in this i couldn't because everything that i had learned uh in life was all of the joy

that i had found came from being outside in movement. And I couldn't support that. This company is like at cross purposes, like your whole idea of how one should live. You know what though? It's been a long time though. And, and that moment has stuck with me. And I wonder now if this whole, I, I don't like being against anything. I like to try to work with things and see a different perspective and this whole VR movement and whatnot. You know, not everyone can have access to the mountains. I realize even Disneyland creations, right? Like Monster Mountain or what are they called? Like they're emulating these places that not very many of us can be, right? And so if I can use VR or video games, essentially,

to offer someone that authentic experience that I'm getting, especially in an empowerment way, then I'm all for it. Yeah, it's definitely not a black or white thing. You know, it's tricky because there is that argument. Like if you're a paraplegic or you're stuck in a hospital and, and you want to experience what it feels like to do what you do and you can put on a VR headset and like have that experience, that's a gift to that individual. But the flip side of that is the person that then locks himself in a container

like this and never takes the goggles off and never goes outside and lives their entire experience in this fabricated universe. Well, it's tough though, right? Like what do you get exposure to? If a kid in a inner city can only get out by a video game, like can we hold him back? Can we attack him for it?

I'm very aware that skiing is an elitist sport and that it requires a lot of money to have that experience and it's really easy for me to say you know come ski with me blah blah blah like um and until i can help support in a way that we everyone can have have that experience, especially kids, then I can't attack any. Right. Or if someone watches one of your videos or has a, you know, can experience that, you know, what you do in virtual reality, maybe it would inspire a young kid to like, go after that dream of trying to figure out a way to get to the mountain. That's my hope. That's my hope with the videos is that it can inspire people to,

to get outside and have that experience and that it's not all scary like it's welcoming and it's magical that's why i bring in the unicorn especially for girls because it takes this thing that people have primarily seen as extreme and oh i could never do that to it's fun and it's playful and it's magical right so there's sparkles explain explain the unicorn so people think that i'm obsessed with the unicorn but the truth is i'm trying to speak to young girls and how do you speak to your audience you have to speak their language and what lights everyone up like when when people see a unicorn they smile and then and i can talk to any kid in an airport

and i do i'm like the weirdo. I was like, hey, you like unicorns? Me too. And it works. They're like, yes. The magical unifier. But what's also cool is it reminds older people of their childhood too when anything was possible and there was magic

and you believed in your dreams and uh so i'm all for it i young actual children and and those who used to be children and i want to bring them back and i think mountains do that and when you when you play when you remember that that state. Yeah, so you created this unicorn using your artistic skills. And it is, it's a beautiful symbol of innocence and joy and the imagination and magic and all of these things that skiing is for you.

And a time when anything was possible, right? There was a time when you believed anything was possible. And I want to bring people back to that. And I think the mountains do that. And that video game company was not doing that. Oh, I don't know. I'm still trying to see it in a different way. But I think it's interesting that you had the, you know, the gumption and the sort of

sense of self to walk away from that. Like, you know, a young person with a great job at an exciting place and, you know, all these cool people doing interesting things. I mean, it would have been easy to stay and rationalize it or just say, you know what? I'm going to do this for a couple of years. I'm going to make some money and, you know, maybe I'll, I can spend my, you know, I can go on these vacations or in a couple of years, I'll get back to the mountain. You know, lots of people do that. And then, you know, life just then, you know, goes on. And then

10 years later, they're like, oh yeah. Actually, no, I felt like I was dying. It was that bad. I felt like there was definitely a pivotal moment where I was looking out the window. I had a window even, you know, in my cubicle. I mean, that's for an intern. I was crushing it. And looking out the perfectly manicured lawn and I felt like I was dying. I felt like I had done everything right, everything they tell you. I had done everything right, everything they tell you. And I was like, well, if this doesn't make me happy, and this is what essentially society tells you to do,

then what does make you happy? Because I'm not going to survive at this. And I thought back to when I was sitting in the theater getting beer spilled on me as a little kid, staring at Warren Miller movies, watching this entire community be brought to get brought together by this thing that really had no um economic reason to pursue it you know but it it mattered um to me and so i was like well i never saw women in those movies so i want to show i want to see if we can i want to show girls that we can be in those i mean they were they were kind of bimbos at the

bottom when i was little right but totally male dominated situation yeah i was like i remember even as a 10 year old like i could do that right watching the movies and so it wasn't really like you didn't you didn't like imagine this specific did you imagine like this specific goal like this is what i'm gonna go do or you just felt like this pull like i need to get back to what's important to me and i'll figure it out no i i fully i think it was the artist background but i had the vision of that inspirational. When I watched those films, I got shivers at certain points when everything came together,

the music and the artistry of the shot. And I think that's where the art combined with the athletics to see this picture of that slow motor, you know, where the sparkles fly. And it all comes together to make an inspirational film. So it was really the combination. Yeah, this idea that skiing is a form of self-expression

that is very much artistic and is, you know, a sort of external manifestation of who you are in your own unique unicorn way. And to the extent that that can be captured and shared, you know, taking a tip from Warren Miller, but finding a way to do it your way is a way of you taking your two loves of art and skiing and bringing them together into this like unifying concept. Right. So that's what I did. Uh, but first you had to prove yourself, right? And for the first time, literally that day in the office, I called up powder magazine and I was like, so how do you, how do you, how do you do this? How do you, and they like transferred me a thousand times. Do what? This, uh, I want to do the skiing thing. Um, I don't remember exactly how I asked, but they, they eventually transferred me to the intern

who, um, at the time her name is Ingrid Baxteraxter, and she is just one of the most incredible female skiers there are. And she was very sweet and was like, well, I suggest you of the pioneers of extreme skiing for women and had been encouraging me for years to, to get into these, um, extreme skiing, uh, AJ's AJ's female. She is. Yeah. She's your cousin. All right. And she's the one, I mean, she's the one, as you mentioned earlier, that like you were like, she was mentor right who's like let's go back country let's ski all this forget about these races right and how you were able to kind of tap in with the with the love of that yeah so you go back so you go back to you go back home uh so uh that was in the summer and i just i started training hard then and it was like all of the years and years

of training for other people finally crystallized into training for yourself oh my god and I could I could I could lift far more I could run twice as. Like I remember putting on my sweatpants in college to go out in negative 30 degree weather, um, at 10 o'clock at night, so energized. Um, and my, my roommates would be like, what are you doing? I'd be like going for a run. And they would all look at me like I was crazy. And they did. Everyone thought I was crazy for years. And that was the best part is the first time in my life I was doing it something 100% for myself, not for any outside affirmation or approval. It was so empowering. And still without any sense of like how you're going to make a living doing this, right? Like

you were just following your muse. Absolutely. I didn't expect to make a living. To. Right. Like you were just following your muse. Absolutely. I didn't expect to make a living to me. It was like, okay, I have this goal and I'm young enough. I want to check this off the list, you know,

like the bucket list of, um, I want to get into a Warren Miller movie. Right. And if you have to work at Starbucks or do whatever you have to do, like you're going to make it happen. Yeah. I figured I was young enough that I could,

um, and if I failed, I knew that I tried. And when you quit that video game job, what, what did your parents say? Are they supportive? Yeah, I think, um, I think they had learned a long time ago that he's got to do what Lindsay's got to do. Yeah. My dad will even say it like you couldn't, you couldn't tell me what to do. If you did, I'd probably do the opposite. Uh-huh. So cool. So you start to do this. And at the time, like I have my, like as I'm listening to you tell this story, like I have, there's a lot of similarities.

Like I had a similar kind of moment where I shifted gears. It's just, I was 40 when we did it. You know, it's like a lot, like I wish I had my, the sense of self that you have, that sort of composure that you had as a young person. It wasn't that, though. But it was. To me, it felt like I was dying. It wasn't composure.

It wasn't this, like, you're making it sound way flowery. But you were like, I'm not going to repress it. Like, I think I probably had a little bit of that, but I just pushed it down. I was like, no, this is what I'm supposed to do. And I just figured everyone felt like I did, but they sucked it up. And it took me a long time to figure out like, no, they actually like it. Like, you know, I'm the one who's suffering. They're not suffering like I am. Maybe I should listen to this, but I had to like go through a lot of pain and years and years and years before I arrived at that point. And for you, maybe it was just more acute, but I think you just had enough sense of yourself to say,

this isn't, this isn't the box that I should be trying to jam myself into. And that takes courage, you know, and it takes, it takes a like self-esteem and a sense of self. And yeah, when you're younger, it's easier. You don't have attachments and all that kind of stuff. But still, I think, you know, it bears mentioning that, that I think that is hard. And I think there's a lot of people who end up in careers not of their own sort of most conscious choosing just because they thought that's what they're supposed to do and are not happy and didn't have that, you know,

didn't have enough of that sense to get out when they were younger. And then they end up feeling stuck. And it's tragic. Absolutely. So it's cool that you did that. So you're home and you're just you're killing it training right and you're like i'm gonna be in one of these warren miller movies um and and you knew him right like he was in the community right in the parking lot or like did he

come and go or like where does that guy live he lived in california uh he was he was a filmmaker in california yeah explain i mean maybe people are listening, not everybody knows who he is, but legendary ski filmmaker. Right. He kind of put ski films on the map, and he created an entire genre of opportunity for those of us that ski in the films. I guess it's like acting, except you're an athlete or a stunt person, but all the films are just pure stunts.

But they're beautifully composed, right? It really elevated that to a very specific art form, and he pioneered that pre-Instagram and pre-all the stuff that we do today. Right. But after 10 years of doing it, I hadn't seen that vision of what, what I had always seen in my head that had motivated, uh, you know, getting into the competition scene again and, and, and all of it. So I had to make. Right. So what, if you had to articulate that vision, what does that sound like? Right. So what if you had to articulate that vision, what does that sound like?

It had it was like everyone was following his model instead of instead of evolving it and not even evolving it. But it was almost like, why isn't anyone just showing the way it is, the way it is, meaning we're awkward in the parking lot and families fighting to get out the door. And instead, it was just like the. The perfection. Exactly. Which isn't really relatable. Without the emotional connection or the humanity behind it. And I wanted to celebrate those parts of it because those are, that's what makes it fun.

Well, I think that's also what really engages the viewer also like if they can see somebody as a fully formed human being that you know that they can relate to who like has the same kind of conversations they have or arguments or what have you they're like oh i i like that person i can see myself in that person and then when you go out and do rad stuff they they're like totally in for the ride. Right. I think everyone, they want to see themselves reflected back in film or media. And if you're not seeing how you engage in this sport, then it's boring. And I think that's kind of how it is right now. Ski films, I think are fairly boring, even though the stunts in them are incredible. And the athleticism it takes to pull them off is insane. And the level of risk that we're all taking, but I don't think it's necessary. Meaning what? Well, like what's not necessary. The level of risk that we're all taking.

Yeah. Well, I think that's really getting ratcheted up too with, you know, kind of like the whole Red Bull films, ethos and Instagram and trying to get the perfect shot and everybody trying to, you know, up the ante, you know, one stunt at a time. I mean, you see it in rock climbing. It's like insane, right? Like even the sponsors are backing away from the athletes because they're like, this is too crazy. Somebody's going to die. And, you know, I'm sure people in skiing are, you know, they are dying, right? And so that pressure to like, you know, I've got to get this shot or get this clip, you know, because it's going to be super epic and doing things you wouldn't ordinarily do because you're so wed to the viewership and the likes, et cetera.

What's great is that it is shifting. We have lost enough people where that awareness and education is becoming cool, right? And so there was a time when I felt like I had already hit a 70-foot cliff and I didn't want to go bigger than that. And I was like, how can I out do that? And the pressure of that, that I remember feeling moments of the only way you could outdo that is if you died, you know? And I think a lot of athletes feel that way. And, um, and so how can you reinvent it to, to make it just as engaging, but, um, you know, especially when you're about being a decent role

model, like how can we show the kids that it, it's good to take care of yourself, especially with the head injuries and the, um, all the other, just the parts of it that I'm not, you know, proud to support. Right. So you do that by bringing in the humanity and bringing in the stories and providing, you know, kind of the inspiration and the kind of life advice for a young person that can inspire them and make them feel like this is possible for themselves. And hopefully set them on a, you know, a trajectory that will get them to embrace the outdoors in the way that you do. I hope so. Is that like the idea? Yeah, and that it's fun to get educated with your friends. And it's still, if you ask any professional skier,

the best part about skiing is still powder skiing with your friends. It's not jumping off enormous cliffs. And so those are the parts that I want to empower. So you're training like a crazy person, right? And so was there a, was there like a break? Like what was the first moment where you thought this is going to click in and this is going to work or how did that kind of unfold for you? Um, the, I was blown away by how easy it was to, I hope this doesn't how easy it was to, I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way,

but I won every competition I entered very easily. But even like, so the first step was getting in shape to then enter these freestyle competitions, right? Which is a whole brand new, different world of skiing. Right? And so explain what those competitions are and what that whole world is about. Because we see skiing on television. We see, what did I call it last night?

The Grand Slalom. The Grand Slalom. We were talking last night. That's how much I know about skiing. You know, the downhill and the slalom, et cetera. But this is a completely different thing. Yeah, there's giant slalom. Right, it's the giant slalom.

But I'm talking about freestyle now. Right. So, yeah, most people, when they think of ski competition, they think of Olympics, GS, Giant Slalom, Slalom, Downhill, Moguls. I got the G part right. Yeah, you're doing great. I'm all over it. Yeah. And then there's, and what's so cool is now they've included the park events.

But big mountain skiing is very much in the natural environment um you're making the first tracks down down something uh and that's part of my favorite some of my favorite parts about it are that the creative the the fact that you choose your line down the mountain and um and that's how you're judged like you're judged based on like the creativity that you bring to the run yeah you're judged on five different criteria of your difficulty of line uh fluidity, technique, time isn't until, you know, the very last thing as where in ski racing, you're only judged on time. And so it suited me really well. Right.

So it's more about self-expression than it is, you know, just like definitive performance. Yeah. Do you make people excited when they're watching? You know, does it look really fun? definitive performance yeah do you make people excited when they they're watching you know it is it does it look really fun and so you enter so you you win the first one of these that you enter i i actually yeah all right every so every one that you would bet and you won yeah and prior to that how many women were in were part of the this freestyle world um was it mostly dudes it was mostly dudes a handful there there were like three that i could name that were um you know in the magazines and and writing

and that voice that world didn't exist when you were in high school it's like a new thing you know it might have but i wasn't exposed to it to it. So you find your thing with this, obviously, right? And this is getting you noticed, I would imagine, right? Again, I did not like competition. So really, I was just- And this is still competition. So how are you reconciling? I wanted to get out of there as soon as quickly.

Oh, you did? Even though you're winning and killing it again, you still want, it's still too much about competition. It's just a means to an end. It was, to me, a way to prove to the sponsors that I was legitimate. That was how you proved yourself. In this world, everybody wants to be in film and photo because that's where the sponsors are.

That's where you can get paid. Now I have so much respect for the level of competition has increased so much since I was there. These women and guys that are on the competitive scene now, people don't know their names, and yet they are the best skiers in the world, but people don't know their names because you need the big-name sponsors. Right. And those that have put their time in there, to me,

have that validity that I respect, but now because they're not at the Olympics, like we don't talk about them outside that insular world. Like most people don't know who these people are. Right. And, uh, sadly the whole Instagram world has changed things even more where people are not even going through, uh, that system of, of being, I guess, vetted. They're just calling themselves athletes and calling themselves pro skiers and instantly they can blow themselves up on, on social media and then you get the sponsors. And so it's totally changed our sport. I mean, it's, as you know, it's easy to get, to make a nice turn and put it up on the gram. Um, but to, to ski a line, uh, in challenging snow in Europe, you know, like, uh, these athletes

are crushing it now, but they're not necessarily getting the recognition that they deserve. Yeah. It's interesting with Instagram. I mean, on the one level that like to, to just play devil's advocate with that, um, perhaps it could allow somebody to create a life around skiing without going through that competition route at all. Like somebody who really can deliver the goods, who's really awesome. And because they're, they're sharing it in this social context, they can get the sponsors and not have to deal with you know some of that process that was ill-suited to you but most of them probably are just not like they're just it's just for the it's just for the likes right yeah it's kind of

sad i think um how easy it is now um to really all you need is some blonde hair and a cute smile and and uh you can you can get all kinds of sponsors yeah and we're gonna get it we're gonna unpack that in a second but just we're working our way up to that because that's really like the crux and the meat of like you know kind of where you've changed the dynamic a little bit um but i first want to understand like how this whole world of sponsorship and sponsors works. So like you establish yourself in this world and then there are these companies that say, all right, we want to basically pay you to endorse our product. And that's what allows people like yourself to like continue to ski. Like how does that whole thing work?

I still, I'm not exactly sure. But you have sponsors. I know my experience, but I don't know everyone's. So I can't speak on behalf of everyone. Or like what the scene is, the way you do this. But the way so far, and honestly, I don't even call this a career still. You know, at any moment I could be, you know, I'm a line item on, uh, so, and I'm very aware of that. Uh, so as it stands right now, I, I'm still blown away that I keep getting the call. Right. So you have like a couple sponsors and they allow you to be able to

like, just do what you do. yeah yeah um you know i get a base salary and then um i'm expected to to be available for a certain amount of days per year whether uh for their needs whether that's poster signings or show up at trade shows or you know be promote this new product or be in the photo shoot for, you know, promoting a new product. Right. All right. So you win all these seven competitions and then you want out of that, right? So how does that look for you? Like, how did that work in terms of like, did you land sponsors as a result of that? And then you had the ability to like step

outside the competitive zone? I thought i would but no no one cared um i was so lucky to get a pair of skis to to ride on and that was really just it's still about friends you know borrowing a pair of friends skis uh so yeah no one cared uh and my goal again was focused on what's it going to take to get into a film. I want to film. I don't want to be in competition. And so how did that, how did that come about?

The first one of those come about. Uh, so I'd love to talk to you about almost not graduating. Okay. Let's talk about it. graduating. Okay. Let's talk about it. Well, it's just sort of a funny story because while I was competing, I was still trying to graduate. I was in my senior year of college and I was going to all these competitions. So I was missing a lot of school. And one of the things that my professors said had always been combine what you love with design. And so that's what I thought that I was doing. And as it came closer to graduation, he pulled me aside and was like, you're not

on track to graduate. And I was like, what? I mean, my grades are fine. He's like, no, participation is part of this. And he was really grumpy with me. He, he thought that I had just been blowing school off to go skiing. And I was like beside myself, you know, it's weeks away from graduation. And I didn't, I was like, I don't know how I'm going to, um, pull this off. And we're in the design lab and, uh, someone had sent some, a picture or something of, of the, uh, podium. And he happened to be walking behind me and saw the screen at that time. And, and he, he, he stopped and he was like, wait, this is what you've been doing. And I was like, yeah, I'm trying to, um, this is what I've been doing. Uh, and he did a full one 80 at that

moment, recognizing that I was working towards something that actually he had inspired in some ways. And to this day, I talk to his classes about what it looks like to combine design and, and sport. You know, I've been able to design my own ski line and, and the liners on jackets and posters. And, uh, so much of my design background has helped this career. Well, you also, you design your life, right? You design your life based on the merger of your passion of skiing with art, right? And like everything you do is sort of an expression of that. Absolutely.

So on the macro schedule, you know, the macro level, you have that. And then all the way down to the micro with whatever instagram you share whatever is a reflection of that which is pretty cool right that's an amazing way to live that's that's incredible that you had that mentor who was able to see that absolutely so you let you graduate you let me graduate you graduate okay so this is like kind of this is what's swimming around in your mind the whole time right right? Merging these two worlds. And so you're trying to get into one of these movies. How does that go down?

Okay, so that's a fun story. I was home for Christmas, and I'm skiing every day with this incredible family, these two young girls, every day. I have to be at their house by 7am to get them up to, uh, to take them skiing. And we were not allowed to come home till four. So I've got to make skiing exciting all day. And that's another story in itself that was a life changer, but, um, just teaching or passing it on to, to young people really having to Really having to be a role model all day. The integrity that that requires, knowing that their eyes are on you all the time

and everything you say, you have to back up. Everything from making sure you're not a minute late in the morning to saying, no, you can't have sugar. That means I can't have sugar. And no, we have good attitudes out here. That means I can't have sugar. And, uh, no, we have good attitudes out here. That means I have to have a good attitude all the time, you know, and how do I treat, um, people in the lift line? How do I do, you know, can I park illegally? Not when they're watching, you know, so it's, um, it doesn't sound like much, but it adds up throughout,

throughout a day of, um, making sure you're not swearing. And, you know, you never get a break to not hold yourself to the highest, your highest, best self because it's for them. And after three weeks, two weeks of being home for Christmas break, which was, I skied every day with them. Really, I call them my first sponsor because, uh, that time helped me pay for my season, um, working for them day and night really, uh, and nannying for these girls, uh, and, and trying to figure out how to make skiing fun when they'd been out every day all week. So, so I've heard, I had heard that, um, that Rossignol was in town that week for a company meeting or something. And, and I literally hunted them down to see where they were meeting and found out that they were at a local bar and I just showed up. And at the, I had been given a pair of skis by the team manager who,

you know, you could send 1,000 emails, and he never responded to any of them. But I showed up, and he fully embraced me with all these, you know, Frenchies from all over the world, really representatives of the brand. Rossignol is a prominent ski brand, if you haven't heard of it, and made it seem like he had brought in one of his athletes, you know? And so, yeah, I got taken out to dinner and, you know, kind of put on the show. And then he's like, what do you want?

And I'm like, I want to film. Like, can I go? I want to go film right now. And at the time they were sponsoring Teton Gravity Research, TGR, which is one of the prominent film companies. And I'm like, I want to film for TGR. And so that night he's like, well, you've got to take her back with you. He said that to one of the other athletes that he had brought in and at that time this guy was you know one of the classic partier um crazy guys he had rented a hummer to get there

right and so i packed everything up that that night like uh ended up missing new year's because it was like i got my chance um and booked it to jackson hole uh And so and so that was the first movie. Right. And so did you do something like how did you put your stamp on it? Like how did you were you able to like do something that hadn't been seen before or present yourself in a way that was unique in relation to how things are typically done in these ski movies? Or did that evolve over time? I had been visualizing and preparing for that moment for the last... It took two years to get there. I couldn't believe it.

Two years is all. From that moment, I'm sitting at a desk to two years later. And I just knew that I was going to need to do something impressive. And that meant jumping off the biggest cliff I could find safely. And as a ski racer, I had been a downhill skier. I loved the airs mostly because, um, everyone else got scared and I got excited. So as soon as I got to Jackson, it was, I was looking for a cliff um and um I remember the very first day being taken out um by a one one of the other athletes is still a great friend his name is Schroeder Baker and him and um the one of the owners of the company, Todd Jones and, and Todd said, you know, why don't

you go hit that? And it was this, it's called fat bastard. And it was, uh, it's like 65, 70 foot cliff. Um, that I didn't even, my eyes didn't even see as an option. And I remember looking up at it and being like, that? You'd never done anything that crazy. Not even close. And I mean, I did big, big downhill jumps, but nothing, nothing even close. And Schroeder luckily stuck up for me and was like, dude, it's her first day. No, dude. And then so then we went to another one which was probably like a what it was a good 40 footer and after looking at that first one this one was like nothing and i hit it three times and all um hiking and they they had never seen a girl go that big from what they said they were so excited and for me um i, yes, this is what I can do this all day. Yeah. Uh, uh, and, uh, then that night they had a big party and, um, you know, skiers are partiers.

And, uh, I was the only athlete that showed up that next morning. And, uh, we're all too hungover. Yeah. So the production was ongoing, right? It was continuing. Yeah, as long as the weather's good, you're supposed to show up. And no one could make it to the shoot. Yeah, except for, so it was me and the filmer.

There was an intern that they made come out with us. And so after a couple days of hitting those cliffs, this was by the third day. And I was pretty tired, but I wasn't aware of it. And we had hiked up another big line and I fell at the bottom of it and I never fall, which kind of told me like, I was tired from, um, from, you know, days of, of hiking and stomping these big cliffs. You don't really recover all that quickly. Uh, and, and he wanted me, the, the filmer had wanted me to, to go ski this line that just really didn't look good. And it, there had been an avalanche right next to it. So you could tell it wasn't the most stable snow. You could tell that it had wind affected, just didn't feel

right. And, um, long story short, you know, we, the intern and I hiked over to it and went to, it just didn't feel right, you know, and we went over the radio, um, you know, we're not, we're not into it we're not going to do that and the filmer got so upset um like ah you know all kinds of swear words i'll go do that myself like and i was so um i guess young and didn't want to lose my chance and be called a girl yes this is your big this is your big chance and you're a woman and all of that. And they had never given a girl a chance. I mean, that was the thing is like girls can't do this.

Like women's skiing is boring. You know, somebody did my team manager a favor to get me out there. And so I didn't want to let anyone down. And I fully, you know, let my own intuition go. And I blew up my knee. And so I really only had a few shots, but, um, from those few days, but, and a year to think about screwing up. Yeah. So, but you got in the movie, in the movie you learned a lesson and then when that movie came out did that change things for you or how did it go from there i think on the outside it did i think

again i'm sort of oblivious to the outside i just felt like i had failed uh because i had only gotten in you know two days but i guess it was enough to get on the map uh yeah and so then you start getting booked in other movies and then when does warren miller come knocking then next year uh-huh yeah and you made that dream happen yeah where does the um like the sense of you know sharing and advocacy start to you know come in by virtue of you know what you're doing on social media and then we're going to get to the movie that you made and all of that like did you start to develop an awareness that like what you were doing was meaningful for other young women and that perhaps you had a message that could be empowering to to girls I never saw it like,

to me it was, what did I need as a young girl? How could I be of service to something that I didn't have? And I think number one was seeing girls in the films, seeing that they could perform right alongside the guys. That was for, and just to push your way in there, like, because it's not easy. Right. And at some point, don't you end up like on the cover of, was it Powder Magazine? Yeah, so.

That one magazine that you reached out to the intern that began the whole thing. And you were the first woman to be on the cover. So that was that fat bastard, that first day that he had suggested that I couldn't even conceive of jumping off of it. And it took me three years. But yeah, eventually, yeah, jumped off that one. Right. And so first woman on the cover of that magazine.

Like you're breaking all these barriers like at every stage like just winning all those freestyle competitions you know being the first woman to you know start doing crazy stuff in these movies the cover of the mat you know all this kind of stuff right so i would imagine like the community is taking notice of you and you're making an impact in terms of, you know, this sense of what women can and should be doing or shouldn't be doing, you know, kind of blowing that glass ceiling up. That was my intention was to show what, what we were capable of at the same time. I was also being used in marketing campaigns for the, the, you know, the, the curly hair and the smile shot, you know? So for example, I did that 65 foot air. And then, uh, right after that for the camera did a,

did a powder turn. And, uh, my sponsor at the time used the powder turn in their marketing that season, you know, for their main marketing. So once again, it was the girl was still represented as the smiley powder turns gear. And I was pissed. I was like, wait, I just did something that required a lot of me and, you know, puts the brand in a position to say, you know, to show that girls can do this. And they didn't see the value, you know. Right. It's all about the smile. And, you know, to show that girls can do this and they, they didn't see the value, you know? Right. It's all about the smile and, you know, like, that's great, but can you do it again in a bikini? No, it was more like, uh, well, the audience doesn't care. Uh, the, the audience

wants to see the product and they can't relate to that. Uh, what they can relate to is, you know, smiley powder turn. And I was like, ah, I was pissed. So I was like, at that moment was another one, like, well, if I want to change this sport, I'm going to have to change it from the top. Right. And I've heard you talk about, you know, the kind of pressure that you and others face, you know, especially, you know, this Instagram culture, right. It's all about how you look, you know, and there are these girls that have like massive followings because it's about, you know, it's about the butt or whatever, you know what I mean? There's no substance to it. And when you have sponsors who are paying for you, there's financially vested interest in, you know,

growing your image and your profile. And I would imagine what comes with that is that whether it's explicit or implicit, you know, pressure to, Hey, can you like, you know, show a little leg or, you know, do what these other girls are doing on some level. You could still be you. We don't want you to, we want you to be you, but, but maybe like a little bit like this. Right. And you've always like kind of towed the line, like, no, I'm not doing that. That's not what I'm about. I'm about like, you know, courage, strength, integrity, integrity empowerment all of these things and and and to do that would be to you know sort of be at odds with everything that you're about but i would imagine it's it's probably been there's been times where that's been difficult to like hold that place this is the most difficult topic

that i still don't have a solid stance on. Right. Because you'd be making a lot more money if you were like playing ball. I'm very aware that I could get a lot of likes and a lot of followers by, I mean, I have the photos I've done, uh, bikini shoots,

which is really fun. You know, there's a part of being feminine that I love that I'm so honored that, um, you know, and I'm also an artist. I love the female I'm so honored that, um, you know, and I'm also an artist. I love the female body. I think it's beautiful. Like I, I think it's beautiful. I don't want to hide it. And so part of me, you know, I wants to express that. And then part of

me wants to, is, is there to say, okay, but I'm really not here for myself. I'm here for what is the greatest service for the, the young girl in me? What does she need to see? Um, and that, that distinction between celebration and exploitation. Yeah, exactly, man. But it is tough some days. It is so tough. Even last year, uh, I had an opportunity to get a lot of money from, um, an alcohol campaign that I watched a lot of my, I guess, peers, um, take, take the gig. It was for three posts, you know, including this can of, and, uh, it would have been so easy and I couldn't do it. Um, and it's the same with like the sexy shots. Uh, you know, I still don't have a real answer for that. I'd love input on from your readers or your followers, especially as parents, you know,

how do we show young girls that they're all the parts of them are beautiful and it's not just looking a certain way, but their courage and their excitement around anything without making it wrong. Right. So it's a tough it's a tough one. Yeah. Well, I think you've done a good job by just trusting your gut on that and your instincts. I mean, you know, in your heart of hearts, what's going to be OK and what what isn't. To me, I'd say anything I actually do. You know, I wear a bikini to go surfing and to wakeboard. And if I'm, you know, doing a sport, like, sure. Well, the word authenticity gets thrown around, you know, very casually, but it's true. You know, if it's authentic to who you are, if it's a natural expression of what you

would be doing ordinarily, then I think it's okay. It's when it becomes artifice and there's some other kind of agenda that's built into that where it becomes, you know, something else entirely. And I think, you know- What would you tell your daughter? You know, like, and I think you know what would you tell your daughter you know like you know she's got an opportunity to to make a lot of money from you know um a bra campaign campaign for example what would you tell her what would I tell my daughter I mean first I would tell her that um that I love her no matter what choice she makes. And that hopefully she has enough self-esteem and enough sort of connection with herself to know what the right answer is. I wouldn't tell her to do it or not to do it.

I would tell her to trust herself. And that whatever choice she makes is the right choice for her. But that it has to feel okay. And if there's any kind of queasiness or reservation about it, that she shouldn't do it. And that those choices should not be made out of fear or a desire for money or out of a sense of people pleasing or trying to fit into somebody else's box. Well, I can tell you get a lot of attention and you feel really good. They make sure you feel really good. You know, you feel like a superstar. I can't imagine to, I can't, you know, like, I can't imagine what that feels like, you know, cause I'm, I'm not a woman and I'm not in that

scenario. So it's gotta be difficult, especially, you know, you're just trying to like, you just want to ski, man, you know, and it costs money to ski and you got to make a living. So on some level, like, you know, you have to be, you have to be a business person in the world. I think that's a lot of people's argument that are going that route right now. Oh, I want to ski, but I can get paid to take off my clothes. But what do you stand for? And I think the difference between you and somebody else who just wants to ski is you

have a message and that message is connecting. And that message is more important than the other things that you are doing. Like the impact that you're having on, uh, you know, other females and young girls in particular is something that you have got to covet and protect above everything else. And to the extent that, you know, uh, a sponsor's interest is going to infect that in a negative way. And then you have to be extra protective and careful about that. I really appreciate that because I've definitely lost opportunities because I

just don't have the numbers that some, that some people have for even just the, the, the Instagram girl who's out there with just back, back to the camera looking out at the lake, right? Yeah. Well, it's like, yeah, if you start doing that, then maybe you, you blow up into half a million Instagram followers or a million or 2 million, but like, what is the value of that? And how do you feel when you put your head on the pillow at night and what's more important?

I think it's better to play the long game and to, you know, continue to walk forward with integrity. And what that will do is engender trust and fidelity with the people that are interested in your voice and your message. And they know that when they, you know, tap into your account that they're getting the real you. And that's important. And that's much more important than how many people are following you. It's like, what is the legacy that you're leaving? I just wish that I could tell girls, here's a way to do it. And, and it works, you know, but I can't, I can't, I still don't know because it's changing all the time. And I would say that a lot of people have found a lot of

success doing it the other way. Right. But you have to do what's right for you. You know what I mean? And I would encourage you to continue to just do what you're doing. Like I watch all your stories and like, it's amazing in your Instagram stories, like I'm getting a behind the scenes look at it's basically your day, you know, but it's like, you're having a blast, you know, and you're with all these people and it's about community and it's about empowerment and it's about fun and it's about embracing and enjoying the outdoors in a really tactile, profound way. It's not about like, you know, what outfit you're wearing or whatever, you know, like that's beside the point. So you're, you're doing, you know, like, and it's, it's a harder

road, you know, but it's a more valuable road. I think it's a it's it's using these tools in a way that can have a positive impact on you know the people that are that are following you as opposed to just some kind of transactional you know relationship with your audience well thank you I really appreciate that because I'm just usually by myself in the woods no it's feeling like it open I've been falling for years you know no it's good. So let's shift gears a little bit here. I want to talk about the movie that you made, um, pretty faces. So tell me how that whole thing came about. So yeah, after 10 years of being in the film scene, I, I expected

someone to make the film that was in my head because it seemed so obvious to me. And yeah, after 10 years. And that film in your head was what? Just more real, more the way I saw skiing. Not just the highlights, but the whole story of it. And maybe it would be good to just articulate, like, how do you see skiing, right? Like, let's get to the bottom of like what it's all about for you. Well, the premise is the story of a skier girl. So my vision was from young to old,

how a female or really anyone encounters the mountains. And I never expected that it would be just a female movie, but this was a niche that I thought needed to be represented. So in doing the research, 40% of people that watch ski movies are female, and yet there might be one female in the premier ski and snowboard films. So that was kind of the premise that I built it on is that, hey, half of your audience is not being represented, and they want to see themselves reflected back. And I was kind of laughed at and right you're thinking like they'll see it

totally and like this will be no problem to get funded and made no actually i've been hearing for years you know women's skiing is boring and no one wants to watch that and women's skiing is a joke and um and yeah i just felt like that's just like a reflection of the boys club nature of this subculture. Yeah, that's just how it is. That seems like really dismissive. It is. And that's why, but I've always, I think a lot of us are fueled on being told no and told that we can't. I mean, that's why I hit a big cliff was to show that we could.

And I know a lot of the females now are fueled by that. Girls don't trick you know it's a huge motivator for a lot of us being told what we can't do so uh that was a big part of mine was i'm not here for the to try and fit in with the boys club i'm here to serve the the young girls that need better role models and also to say thank you to the sport that that gave me so much my confidence my everything taught me everything so the vision that i had was uh just the fun parts gosh i i don't even know how i just i just wanted that authenticity to be there. The humanness, the thank you to our dads who taught us how to do it and that brought us out there when we didn't want to be out there and made it magical.

And to shine a spotlight on your friends and your colleagues, the other females that, you know, share your perspective and your ethos and your love of skiing in the mountains. Yeah, absolutely. Honor these women that, that have made it on their talent, not on what they look like. Right. And so you end up crowdsourcing this movie, right? And, and, and you shoot it and you make it and you like edit it yourself. Like you spent like a whole, like you just locked yourself in a room with a couple of people and like edited this thing yourself yep wow yep that was when was that 2014 yep a couple years ago yeah uh-huh um and pretty faces it comes out and i've read a bunch of reviews i apologize i haven't seen it yet but um the reviews were really good right like you screened you screened it at Mountain Film and like a bunch of festivals.

Actually, we took it on tour. You did? Yeah, you did a tour. I didn't expect. I didn't even know if anyone would come, right? So I only booked one theater, the first theater. And for some, it just took off. And it won all kinds of awards and it sold out 150

shows and still gets requested and um my intention was was to create a piece that honored those that came before us um and that honored those that were charging now that didn't necessarily have the big sponsor money, but also including, you know, the, everyone, as many of us as possible to show just how many of us there were and that are, um, and that experience of taking the movie around and touring with it. Like what, are there some memorable exchanges that you had with people that were impacted by the movie? Like what stands out? Oh, it's just, it was so much fun.

All the unicorns that showed up in costume, all the young people came out in unicorn costumes. Oh my God. Those are your fans. Yeah. The dads and the moms and, and all the moms that said, you know, we wished that we had this. We all, you know, the women that felt like they didn't have a community, they had felt like outliers. And now this showed that there was a community that loved this too. And there's still girls that live in mountain towns that, you know, they're drawn there.

I mean, it's becoming more and more popular to B mountain, you know, be outdoorsy, right? This whole, it's fully shifted. And now, you know, the nonprofit helps with connecting people in those transient towns that are looking for outdoor buddies. Right. And we're going to talk about that in a second. But, you know, as you're describing that, I'm thinking, you know, about this boys club, you boys club ethos in this world in which you inhabit. But when I kind of poke around and read about the things that you've done and that you're doing, you had really favorable sort of mainstream press that exists outside that subculture.

Outside Magazine has always been a big fan of yours and writes about you all the time, is always like praising you so it's like you're getting the love like maybe not with the boys club or maybe that's changed I don't know but but you know the outside world is like taking notice of you in a way that exists like and that's way more powerful than whatever like the couple people who like you know are tastemakers within that small community. Like if you can, your, your, your, your, your message is transcending that and impacting culture outside of that, which is really, that's the gift. Thank you again. Yeah. I mean, we're just, I think you always put yourself around

people that make you are at the highest level. I think, yeah, I don't know. It's tough. The guys are doing incredible things, right? And there's a lot of guys that deserve a lot of recognition that they might not be getting. And so it's easy to get hate, right? So I'm always trying to keep that in check. But has that come around? Like, has that changed?

Like, now that you've made this movie and you're doing all these things, like, has that sort of perspective within the community, within that boys' club, has that changed? Like now that you've made this movie and you're doing all these things, like has that sort of perspective within the community, within that boys club, is that shifted at all? Or is that a static thing? You don't know. You just do your thing. Yeah, I really don't. I like admire your, your like blithe sort of naivete about these things.

Like, is that sort of feel, I feel like on some level, that's like your secret strength, you know, like not paying attention to all this stuff that other people get really caught up in. I can feel jealousy. And, you know, no matter who you are, if you've found any sense of success, you know, there's going to be the shit talking that you don't necessarily hear. Are you like on the receiving end of a bunch of theater stuff? I'm not at all. Not that I'm aware of.

It's the, it's the, um, behind your back stuff that your own, some of your own competition says, you know, or male or female. I still feel it.

Uh, and it is what it is. Right. All right. So let's talk about she jumps, right? You started this. I don't mean to talk about haters.

Cause I don't really, I really don't have any that I'm aware of. But you always know that they exist. You're better off. Don't pay attention to it anyway. Who cares? I can't afford to. All right.

She jumps. So tell me about this nonprofit that you started. It's really cool. She jumps. Yeah. Our mission is to increase participation in the outdoors of women through mentorship i love that can my daughter mathis participate in this somehow yep she wishes it's like i love her to death but i feel bad for her sometimes i feel like she should have been

born in like a ski town with a ski family. She just loves skiing. She just loves it. And I feel bad that we live in Southern California because if it was up to her, she would be up on a mountain every single day. That's so funny because I wished I was so grumpy when I was little saying, God, why wasn't I born into the beach community? Because I'm supposed to be a surfer. So I can tell you that sometimes when you're you're born away from it it makes you appreciate it even more you know east coast skiers for example are some of the greatest lovers of skiing because they know they don't get it all the time right so there's a value

to all of it right i get that but she can come visit so she's gonna man i'm gonna i'm gonna make her go visit you yeah i'd love it all right. But so tell me what you, what you guys do with, with she jumps. So we have all kinds of events. The program that we're most excited about right now is called wild skills where we're utilizing. So we have two, two, three tiers of, um, I guess participation. The, the first are recognizing those women that are doing incredible things and sharing their stories so that we all can be inspired by the, those at the highest level and, and sharing what they're doing to, to get it out there. Like I said, so that media, uh, so that it trickles down to where the young girls can be exposed to like,

wow, she just climbed Everest or she just skied this line. So recognizing what women are doing at the highest level. Then the second level is the community, finding other like-minded people to get outside with. So we have grassroots groups all over the country that just meet once a month to get outside in um, and all kinds of events from fly fishing to bike clinics to, uh, obviously skiing. And then the third is the never evers. And that's where our programming and our fundraising goes towards. And we utilize those

top two tiers to coach for these events. Um, and we've got a couple programs where we're fully outfitting girls uh and boys to take them skiing and coach them but wild skills is our newest program what we struggled with was in with the mountains god there's so much to so so many costs right and it's it's inaccessible so we needed a model that could be scalable so we developed a program called wild skills where we uh were teaching four different skills navigation uh um i like to call it fort building uh but it's shelter building right uh uh leave no trace protocol and what's the fourth one there's always an element of facing fear so rock climbing or skiing or you know whatever we can whatever physical event that we can get in there um and the idea behind that is is exposing like underprivileged kids that

don't ordinarily have the ability or the access to do these things right underprivileged kids that don't ordinarily have the ability or the access to do these things, right? Underprivileged and privileged. I think privileged kids need this stuff just as much as, as underprivileged. That's what I'm finding. I mean, so many of the kids I grew up with, they had plenty of money, but they didn't have enough love. You know, they didn't have the big sister or the parents around. So we, everyone needed it, needs it. Um, so yes, we make sure that, um, that the at-risk youth definitely have, uh, there's, there's lots of opportunity for them, uh, as well as average girls. Right. That's beautiful. That's really cool. So how many, how many people like work for the organization and how do you structure all that?

Like that's very enterprising. We really have only one paid position and that's our director. And then everything else is volunteer. And, you know, of course we have a board. Right. And where would you like, like where's all this going for you? Like do you have like,

I get the sense that like, you're not somebody who sits down and writes out i i get the sense that like you're not somebody who sits down and writes out the five-year plan like you're going with the flow and you're following your heart and your muse and that's been a trusted you know sort of um true north for you and has led you my only choice like it's led you by by like trusting that by having faith in your own personal voice, it's allowed you to kind of blossom into this person and, and, and provided you this life that you always wanted. Right. So, and that's inspiring, you know, that's, that's inspiring. Cause I think a lot

of people are afraid of that. There's a lot of uncertainty that comes with that. That's the trade-off, you know, it is not easy to live with that. Right. Um, yeah, it's tough. You, you don't know if you're gonna, you know, have a job next year. Uh, and so it, it takes an active, um, you have to be very, I have to be very active in staying in, in my highest potential. And that means staying in those activities that, that keep that fire, I guess, light me up.

And I've actually been thinking about that a lot. And I don't know if I'm, I don't have an agent or anything like that to tell me, like to advise me on what I'm supposed to talk about or not, but I've been writing a book. Oh, cool. Yeah.

It's like halfway done. And I don't know, you would tell me, what I'm supposed to talk about or not, but I've been writing a book. Oh, cool. Yeah. It's like halfway done. And, uh, I don't know, you would tell me, am I, is that something I should talk about or not until it's done? You could talk about it. You're on the hook now. It's good. Now you're accountable. No, I mean, I'll do it no matter what, because it's, it's, it's what I realized was what I was using to navigate. And it's been about fun. And, uh, I mean, it's, it's called the unicorn handbook and it's the value of fun and the value of, of play. Um, and there's some research on it, but it's never been all put in one place. Um, so that's what I'm playing with. That's really cool.'s awesome how close are you to being done with it it feels like you know it feels like halfway yeah but i i've never done

this before so i i i'm very aware that there's rewrites are you doing it do you have a publisher or you're just doing it on your own you're doing i just wanted it again it was kind of my own um like just writing down my own, my own values and my own like navigation, even just for myself to remember like, Oh, when you get stuck, what do you do when you get scared? Because you, I don't know what's going to happen next year. Like what, what are the, uh, the go-tos that help me, you know, move through that. And I would say it's breath and it's movement and it's what feels fun. And how can I make this playful?

And when I get into the, when I use those strategies, there's always a shift. Yeah. That's cool. Do you have like, who are your mentors? Do you have people that like you turn to for counsel or, you know, maybe somebody that is in the culture that we know of that you sort of aspire to their way of living or you just, you're just doing your thing. I think I'm still searching for that role model who I want to be like, uh, and I'm And I'm really sensitive.

I mean, there's a reason I would look up to Julie because she's really speaking some truths that I can feel that I think all of us struggle to talk about. So I'd say she's one of them. Right, that's cool. This is going to sound weird but the more courage I get the more I'm willing to say I actually am recognizing that I I can't believe I'm it's going to sound so cheesy but

I represent the planet I'm the marketing team for her, for the earth. There's nothing cheesy about that. That's beautiful. Yeah, I mean, she's the thing that nourishes me. And like I said, when I was sitting in that beautiful job in a building, I can't even run on pavement. So I have to honor that. And I just came back from the rainforest and it's never been so clear about what I'm supposed to do.

So when somebody says, what do you do? You can say, I'm an ambassador for the planet. I work for her. I work for her. I work for her. I'd love to say I work for the rainforest. I work for the planet. I work for the good of the next generation who needs a change in how we educate our kids. And not we educate, but we allow them to educate us because they're bringing the solutions. If we can just empower them to have the courage to share it instead of forcing them to fit into the box that we want, you know, we,

I want to create those structures that allow them to bring the answers because we need some solutions. When you talk to young girls and maybe young girls who are in search of inspiration or mentorship, like what is it that you communicate? Like what is the message that you're imparting? I don't, I'm not trying to impart a message. I'm just trying to show them how rad they are so that they start to see their own magic and start to listen and start to believe in it. Because we have our own magic. I've been thinking about it, even for your listeners.

It's like, we're the ones. We're the ones. We've been waiting for it. That's what Julie says all the time. I really believe that. And we have what we need. We think we need to make more money or know more important people or, or be more educated. But the thing is, if we're, if anyone who's listening to you, we, we have it because, because we care about this stuff. Uh, it means that, uh, we're part of the solution and i i've been wondering how to motivate that and i

kind of want to be i want to use what worked for me which which was like oh well you probably can't there's probably nothing you can do so maybe we'll just yeah you probably you can't do that in other words meaning when you're told you can't do something, that's what motivates you to do it. I hate to admit it, but yeah. Not everyone's like that, though. Some people take that to heart and they get defeated. Well, I would say that anyone that is listening to this podcast is so,

we're the ones, we're the ones, I can feel it. Like, we care. And there's more of us than then I think at some level we all feel I know I felt like what can I do I'm just one person and and I don't have enough money or influence or education but what sitting in the rainforest did was tell me that what, so my nonprofit, our motto is what would you dare, what would you dare to attempt if success were the only outcome? If it really think about that for a second, what would you dare to attempt if success were guaranteed? And that's what has led us for this long.

But it's been 15 years. We've been incorporated for 10 years. And now I've changed the motto to be, what would you dare to attempt even in the face of failure? What sounds so fun that even just trying it might be worth it? And for me, when I was young, I wanted to save the rainforest. But it seemed so daunting and no one took it seriously. I was in third grade. I was having bake sales.

And I didn't even know how to cook, you know, like selling uncooked cookie dough to my friends and sending money to go save the whales or the rainforest. And when I looked around at that time, I was, I was certain of what I was going to do. I was going to go into politics and go save the rainforest. But, uh, when I really looked into it, I, it seemed like politics led to a down a path that I would get lost. It seemed like you had to play a dirty game to get anything done there. And I didn't think I had the strength to face that. And then, um, when I really looked at the problem in environmentally, I know I took this off course, but no, it's good. Keep going.

You're on a roll. Keep going. Um, I couldn't find a solution when it came down to it, no amount of awareness was going to change that decision when a family at the edge of the forest has to decide between cutting down another hectare of forest in order to feed their family versus doing the right thing, right, in our case. And so I felt like it was a losing battle. And so I got distracted in other things, primarily skiing, right. And coming back to the rainforest a couple weeks ago, my new motto is like, what would I be willing to fail for? You know, what would be so great that even just one thing a day in in service to this mission, you know, I held this goal of skiing for a living

or skiing that people told me that it was impossible, right? And at the time it was impossible. There weren't girls doing it. And just by holding that vision, I created it. And I never imagined that I could, and no one around me did either. And then a few years later created a film that everyone said that they'll never be able to do that. Yeah. Who would watch that? And then, uh, so those two things, I mean, it's skiing that has shown me that the impossible is possible. And so if, if I'm willing to actually use what that's taught me,

then the next one is the rainforest well that's great I mean skiing is the love but skiing is also the vehicle for the message right it's not it's been everything skiing of it in and of itself it's it's a metaphor for yeah exactly and it's the teacher and it's yeah and that can continue to evolve for you you're not a static being. None of us are, yeah. That's really beautiful. Well, we've got to wrap it up here. It's Jai's birthday, so I've got to get to her birthday party.

But that was beautiful, and thank you. It's a blessing to be able to talk to you. And I always like to end this with maybe some words of wisdom that you can impart to the young woman that is listening who is struggling. Maybe she's still in the cubicle and can't find her way out and isn't in a place where, you know, she feels like that idea of what would be so amazing that you'd be willing to fail for it doesn't feel like a reality for her. Like, how do you break somebody out of their routine and, you know, inspire or provide them with the tools to, you know, perhaps redirect their trajectory towards a more meaningful, playful existence that can, you know, touch the outer boundaries of what you've experienced?

Well, I've definitely learned that we truly do only have right now. So what sounds fun right now? What's the next fun thing? Uh, and just go do that. That's it. Um, don't overcomplicate it. Yeah. I mean, that's the way I've been living, uh, and so far so good. And then I also want to recognize you for saying, and just say, thank you for creating a place that, that guys can look to for a role model. I think as hard as it is for women to find role models right now, it's, it's, it might be more difficult for men to find decent guys to look up to, uh, for everything that you represent, spiritual, spirituality, health, how you deal in a relationship, how, how, how do you follow your own passions and be a dad?

Like, so I would say thank you. And to, to, to any, any guys out there that, that are walking that walk, whether you're a dad or whether you're just, all of it. We need real men. We need you so, it's so hard to be a guy these days. I appreciate you saying that. Thank you. That's meaningful. All right, well, let's close it down. How do you feel?

I feel like I have, that's like the old story, right? I'm like, I want to talk about now yeah well we come back finish your book and we'll come and come back and we'll pick it up where we left off fair enough is that a deal yeah fair enough all right cool thank you all right lindsey dyer she's awesome and you're going to want to check her out online so the best places to do that are lindsaydyer.com. L-Y-N-S-E-Y. No D, right? D-Y-E-R. Yeah. Unicorn Technique is something, is the place right now. And what about shejumps.org? And shejumps.org.

And you can check out Pretty Faces, the film. It's on Vimeo, right? Like you can pay five bucks to watch it or something like that. Is that how it works? And iTunes. And iTunes. Cool. So check out the movie. Follow Lindsay online. It's the same on Instagram and Twitter. She's awesome. Wow. Thanks. And yeah, we need more powerful, kick-ass women like yourself. And I'll continue to do my part to try to shine a spotlight on those like yourself. But I think we can all do that in our own lives in a certain way by just recognizing that there are powerful, amazing women all around

us doing amazing things. And we will all be benefited and our daughters will be benefited by celebrating them. So that's my call to action to everybody who's listening. Thanks for talking to me. Peace. action to everybody who's listening thanks for talking to me peace plants all right we did it hope you guys enjoyed that she's such a cool person really delighted to be able to share that conversation uh with lindsey with you guys so please take a moment track her down on instagram give her a shout out and let her know what you thought of today's episode. Listen, I've written a whole bunch of books, not a whole bunch. I've written to finding ultra the plant power way. Julie just came out with this Jesus nuts, all of these books and this whole podcast. And basically everything I do is about helping people transition to a healthier

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