The Rich Roll Podcast - Big Wave Legend Garrett McNamara On Chasing 100ft+ Waves

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

Meet legendary big wave king Garrett McNamara. Garrett is an internationally recognized big wave surfer who commanded global attention by surfing one of the world’s largest waves in Nazaré, Portugal, and popularizing Nazaré’s now famous surf break. He has also accomplished a myriad of other absolutely insane surfing feats like surfing waves generated by a 300ft glacier in Alaska, giant barrels breaking on shallow, jagged reefs, and on massive, open ocean hurricane swells. We dive into Garrett’s background—how he began surfing, his 100-foot wave quest, and the docu-series that captured it all. As an added bonus, Garrett’s wife Nicole—absolutely his partner in all things—joins the conversation at the end to enlighten us on the manifestation spiritual practice she and Garrett utilize to guide their decision-making and execute their goals. Garrett is he’s quite a character, truly one of a kind. My exchange with him and Nicole is one I won’t soon forget. Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/richroll Indeed: Indeed.com/RICHROLL Whoop: WHOOP.com  LMNT: drinkLMNT.com/RICHROLL Athletic Greens: https://www.athleticgreens.com/richroll Peace + Plants, Rich

The Rich Roll Podcast. Imagine yourself standing before a 100-foot wave of ocean water. That's like a skyscraper. For most, I'm guessing, running to safety would be the first instinct that would kick in. But for today's guest, the immediate thought is singular. Grab your board and let's go surfing.

Fear is something that we choose, something we manufacture in our mind. We fully embrace the moments. Fear does not exist. His name is Garrett McNamara, and he is an internationally recognized big wave surfer, one of the greatest to ever do it, who commanded global attention by surfing one of the world's largest waves. I just want to surf. The goal is to keep surfing. And has accomplished a myriad of other just absolutely insane surfing feats like

surfing waves generated by a 300-foot glacier in Alaska, surfing giant barrels breaking on shallow jagged reefs, and on massive open ocean hurricane swells. Garrett and his team are also the subjects of the hit HBO docuseries you might've seen called The 100-Foot Wave, which thrillingly chronicles their pursuit of the largest waves in the world. There's nothing that we can't do if we put our mind to it. Season one is just a must-watch, Emmy-award-winning series.

It's a real-life, edge-of-your-seat filmmaking experience, and season two, which is scheduled to debut very soon, is sure to continue that tradition. In today's conversation, we discuss Garrett's background, how he began surfing. We talk about the 100-foot wave quest and the docu-series that captured it all. And as an added bonus, Garrett's wife, Nicole,

absolutely his partner in all things, joins the conversation at the end to enlighten us on the manifestation spiritual practice she and Garrett utilize to guide their decision-making and execute on their audacious goals. It's all coming right up, but first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time.

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To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Okay, Garrett, Nicole, gotta say, I really love this one. There's just something beautifully earnest and childlike about Garrett that I find very appealing. He has this sense of awe and wonder and joy that he naturally exudes. He's just, you know, he's a character for sure.

And Nicole is just an absolute delight. So I'm excited for you guys to hear this one. One final note, they did bring their newborn with them to the studio. And from time to time, you're going to hear a cry or two in the background. Do not fret, all is well. And with that, I give you the one, the only Garrett McNamara and Nicole. Awesome, man. Super nice to meet you. I'm really glad we could make this happen. I kind of feel like I know you though, cause I've been consuming so much of your content, your adventures, your experiences,

of course the docuseries, which is unbelievable. And I presume that you're in Los Angeles because of the Emmys, is that the main reason? That was the main reason. You guys took the W too. Oh yeah, I couldn't believe it. It's more than we expected from this whole mission, this whole journey.

That's gotta be pretty surreal. I mean, the arc of everything that you've endured over many years to arrive at this place where you're on the receiving end of like so much recognition, it's gotta be at times a little bit destabilizing or sort of, you know, strange. Yeah, it's really, I feel like it's like pinch me something

like, is this really happening? And, but then when we're in Portugal and Nazarene and you're walking up the cliff and there's thousands of people and they're all, thank you. And then you start crying with all these cheers of joy and just gratitude. Yeah, I mean, I think that's really at the heart of what almost interests me the most about your story.

It reminds me of a conversation I had with Alex Honnold after he had free soloed El Cap, but like a year before the movie came out. And through that conversation, I felt like I understood what he had accomplished. Similarly with yourself, like I'd seen all the video clips and I kind of thought I had a sense

of what you were up to out there in Portugal. But it wasn't until I saw Free Solo and I watched the docu-series that I had a heavy dose of like, oh, you actually didn't really understand it all. Like there's so much more that went into this adventure than meets the eye. And it's only through like telling the story in real time

with all this archival footage that you guys have that you can truly appreciate what has been accomplished here. And a big piece at the center of it is this community that you built that you, you know, took years to construct prior to even, you know, dropping in on the huge wave that kind of made headlines around the world. Yeah, for us, it was 100% the team that we could not have done anything that we did without this amazing team. And in the beginning, we were all marching to the same beat with the same goals and desires.

And it just was so effortless. Every day was just so fun and enjoyable. And everybody was just happy all day, every day. I mean, there was definitely some challenges here and there. There was a lot. and everybody was just happy all day, every day. Yeah, well- I mean, there was definitely some challenges here and there. There was a lot. I mean, what I took from it was that you really invested. Like you're like, the only way this is ever gonna work

is if I build a team and a network and generate community and consensus around this massive goal that I have. And that's by basically working with everyone in the community there to, you know, create a situation for success. You know, without understanding that and watching the documentary, like I would have thought, oh, you just drop,

you arrive there, you brought your toe in guy, you got the wave runner and you just shoot out and you just check it out. You know, it wasn't that at all. And this was a different animal due to the fact that it was just a big beach break, a big closeout beach break that was deemed impossible. A number of people went there before we went there and had everything, were ready, and said, no, it's impossible, you can't get back out.

You might be able to ride away, that jet ski comes in, it won't be able to go back out. Right. And it was just, I had dumb luck or I don't know. I don't think it was dumb luck at all. Like I think it was an engineering problem that you took a lot of time to try to solve and figured out like a workaround to make it work.

But maybe we should, I wanna get into your backstory because it's so insane, but let's talk about Nazare right now. Like for somebody who hasn't seen the docu-series and maybe only knows you as a guy who surfs big waves, like let's start at the beginning when you received this email and this invitation to go to Portugal? It came in like 2005 or seven, somewhere around there.

And he emailed me saying- He's like a city commerce guy, right? He was a bodyboarder and he worked in the mayor's office and a branch of that called Nazarequilifica. And he was in head of sports programs. But as a child, he had been on that lighthouse dreaming somebody surfing big waves. And then that dream just until he was in a position to hunt, to find somebody. He actually sent an email to Laird Hamilton first,

didn't get a reply. Then he sent one to Carlos Burley, didn't get a reply. I was third. I was the third choice. Third on the list. And he sent a reply like that. He said, bam, his reply. But it was a number of years after that email

before you took the first trip out there to scout it out. Well, my wife doesn't like to take credit for this, but I give her all the credit because that email was sitting there in my inbox from a while back when we met. And she was going through all my emails, getting me organized. And then she came across that email

and she's like, what this? And I'm like, oh, some guys want me to go to Portugal and see if their wave's any good and any big. The email said, can you come and test our wave and see if it's good and see if their waves any good and any big. The email said, can you come and test our wave and see if it's good and see if it's big? And if it's good and big, can you help promote our town? Right. This little tiny fishing village.

One month after she saw the email, you were there. So other surfers had, it wasn't like a total secret that there was a big wave there. It's just nobody had ever had the audacity to try it or how come like it took so long for people to notice what was happening there? It was deemed impossible.

And Jose Gregorio, who's Quicksilver Portugal, awesome, good surfer, decent pilot. He tried. The guy sent me pictures of all their jet skis with just blown apart yard sale. And so they never went back. And then when I got there, toe surfing was now frowned upon.

There was the media and a group of surfers. And I don't know if they actually really planned it, but it really felt like it to just kill toe surfing. And so toe surfing was dead. It was frowned upon unless maybe you're at Australia at a slab or Chopo when it gets too big and you can't paddle. But even then it was like-

Back in early, this is like 2008, 2009. And you get there in 2010. And it was, to be very honest, there would still be nobody there today if we didn't actually give it a try. Right. Because nobody was gonna try it and toe surfing wasn't cool.

Once Kyle Lanny got into the, started promoting, posting his toe surfing, then it was cool again. Thank you, Kai. Yeah, I mean, Laird had done it. I mean, Laird made it cool for me. Yeah, Laird the man. We'll get into that inflection point of you, watching him do thataird had done it. I mean, Laird made it cool for the, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Laird the man. We'll get into that inflection point of you, you know, watching him do that for the very first time.

But you on a flyer, you know, you and Nicole head out to Nazare. And that first season out there was really mostly just recon, like trying to understand what was happening, watching the waves, meeting with people in the government and, you know, trying to understand what was happening, watching the waves, meeting with people in the government and trying to build a team and make sense of how you could do this,

quote unquote, safely or as safely as possible. Yeah, we call that the exploration here where we were just exploring and figuring out all the challenges that we might face, figure out solutions. figuring out all the challenges that we might face, figure out solutions. And we were so like,

it never received that type of welcome anywhere in the world where the Portuguese Navy opens their door and opens all the charts. And I mean, everybody and anybody was at our, ready to help with whatever information they had. We didn't have a lot of funding. I mean, there was a little restaurant, Celeste Restaurant. She gave us meals for $7 was her contribution.

Yeah. Luis Silverado was a fish company. He's the biggest fish company in Nazare. They gave $10,000, but other than that, we had nothing. the biggest fish company in Nazare, they gave $10,000, but other than that, we had nothing. And Lino from Nazare Water Fund, he came in personally and just asked what we needed and whatever we needed, he made it happen.

So yeah. And that requires a healthy dose of humility. Like you're this Hawaiian surfer guy, you have this understanding like, look, I'm not Portuguese. I can't just come in here and pretend like I know what's going on. I have to make sure that I have the support of the community before I even attempt to do something

that's gonna put this town in the spotlight. Was that part of the thinking or was it just, this is your natural tendency? Like I- Kind of natural tendency I assemble. We have, I don't like to call it, my families around the world, like where we assembled in Tahiti and Chile, in Peru,

all over the world, we have our little family set up during my toe surfing career. So wherever I wanted to, wherever Big Swell was going, we would have something already in place. So we call, we're coming and boom, everything's ready. But it was nothing like what happened in Portugal. You got the government, you got the town, you got,

oh, actually the town at first did not wanna know us. They were like, they're very passionate, very loving. And I was the guy that was gonna die tomorrow. So they didn't wanna get to know me cause they didn't wanna be sad when I died. Right, they had this long history of all these fishermen dying, right? As a result of this wave.

And what's interesting is what makes that wave so big. So talk a little bit about like why that wave is so different and special. It's crazy because 10 miles down the road at Pinesh, it'll be six feet. And in Nazare, it's 60 feet. There's this underwater canyon. It's 25 miles long, two or three times the size of the Grand Canyon,

two times the size of the Grand Canyon. And it kind of bottlenecks. So it starts out really wide, and then it gets really narrow right before the vast rock and the lighthouse. Right, it runs perpendicular to the shore. It actually passes the lighthouse and runs all the way to the beat there. So the energy keeps moving with all of its full raw power without getting disrupted by a reef or a sandbank or a shelf in that canyon. But on the right side is this shelf, which gets like 60 feet deep at the deepest. And over here you got 1,000 feet deep where the wave breaks.

And then where the wave breaks on the shelf is like 30 to 40 feet. The biggest swells we've ever had might be breaking in the 60 feet deep. But these swells are going slower, or these waves are going slower as they hit the shelf. And the same exact waves goes faster down the canyon. And then they miss each other when it gets to where they're going to break, but then they turn sideways. They slam into each other. Creates a wedge. Right.

A crazy wedge. And there's this, when you watch video kind of zoomed out a little bit, it just looks like a massive washing machine. Like we're sort of used to, when we think of big waves, we think of these, you know, beautiful clean sets on the North shore of Oahu where they're perfect curls and they're coming in and it's all kind of very, you know, pristine and tropical.

And this just looks like, you know, the gods are angry. Like it's just crashing, you know, like how do you even make sense of like where to be and where the wave is gonna break? And it looks like there's another wave coming from the side, like making sense of all of that and trying to understand like, is this even possible to ride? Seems like a hefty equation to solve.

I think that's what's most, what we love the most about it. It's never the same twice. And there's always a challenge. There's always number one, picking the wave. Like sometimes you have the biggest flow you ever saw coming at you and you start driving for

it and that cross wave cancels it and it doesn't even it just kind of go and there's nothing and other times it'll be a medium size and when it hits the wedge perfect bigger than like 10 20 feet bigger than you expected and um yeah it's it's never the same ways twice. It's always challenging. The biggest challenge of all is right in front of the cliffs or first peak left breaks. If you fall right there, the water is so foamy and so aerated and the hold downs are so brutal. And right in there, it's like a river riptide just coming out full force. So you have this current pulling out and the wave coming in and if you fall there it's almost impossible to come up when you finally do the next wave is usually right there there's no time to get you and if the ski can get in there if you grab the guy

and you try to go in the aerated water you don't move so it's like somewhere you never want to fall we've had a few people fall there and they've had the worst experience or the most challenging experience they've ever had in the water. Yeah, what was interesting was figuring out, like there's the, I wanna talk about the mechanics of towing into these waves,

but what the epiphany was really realizing that you needed an additional wave runner for rescuing the person in case they wipe out, right? Because when they're in that foamy no man's land, you can't even see where they are. And the guy who dropped you off, the towing guy can't get there, right?

Like it's impossible. So the only way to make it semi-safe is to have two wave runners out there, one specifically for rescue. Yeah, and one of the biggest keys to success is your eye in the sky, your spotter on the cliff, who is communicating with both drivers and even the surfer if you have an ear.

Yeah, Nicole. Well, we started out to have her for safety, but then we're saying, which wave? She's spotting the good waves. Right, so it is this huge team effort. I underappreciated the skill level required for the toe-in wave runner pilot. Like that's a whole thing.

And the docuseries does an amazing job of demonstrating like how trained up these people have to be and how in sync, like there has to be this, connective tissue, almost a synergy you know, a synergy and unspoken connection between you and your tow-in pilot in order for that to work, right? And then you've got Nicole on the cliff and these other people, and you guys all have walkie talkies

and you're communicating the whole time, you're wearing specialized wetsuits that have inflation in them, so you're not gonna get caught in the washing machine underwater for too long. Like so many precautions and so many team members in order to make this thing operate. Yeah, the inflation is the best invention

in big wave surfing. What's even better is the flotation that we put into our suits. So as long as you have a little flotation in a suit, whether you pull or if it malfunctions or if it breaks, you're still gonna pop up sooner or later somewhere and we'll find you. But with the inflation, it's just like,

you're coming up and you're ready for more. You look like a Michelin man or like a Marvel character in those things. Big time, big time. And yeah, the drivers, what you were asking earlier, I mean, we have the initial tower who usually is the guy who first responder, but then everything's running perfect.

You have one guy on the left and one guy on the right watching the person surf. So the driver usually gets you, but he can't see usually because it's hard to get to the shoulder really fast to be able to look down. So you have the guy on the left and the guy on the right actually eyeballing, and you have the eye in the sky. So if one of them misses, then the next one comes. If they were going to go left but all of a sudden last minute went right,

the guy on the right got it. So, yeah, those are definitely our lifeline, those safety drivers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's cool. I mean, you're Irish by descent, right? Yeah. And you got like, you got, initially you have Al, who's an Irishman, right? Legend. And then you got Coddy, who's an Englishman. Like none of these guys are Polynesian or Portuguese or anything like that. Like all Northern European guys. Like you're like an unlikely, you know, set aside the age piece, which we're gonna get into.

Like you're an unlikely candidate for this whole world to begin with. An unlikely success story, starting from Pittsfield, Massachusetts, a hundred miles from the ocean. Yeah, the team, you know, if I could do it all over, I wouldn't change anything, but if I was going to do it the way that would be set up for success, I would have brought Keali Imamala, my Hawaiian driver, because he doesn't miss ever. And he's, I don't even know how to say anything. He comes in in like your third or fourth year there, right? I know he's in season two.

I'm not sure if he made season one at all. Was he in season one? I think he's in season one. Yeah. Okay, that's good. Because Cotty was back home for a spell, right? Because he lost his sponsor. For 2012, he put me on that wave.

Oh, and he missed me, which he never does. It was like crazy. The Hawaiian miss. So he flew off the ski. Yeah. Right. But I wouldn't change a thing. I mean,

Coddy is the most selfless, my favorite person in the world. And then Al Manny is just the gentle giant. And the whole team, we were just, and it was easy, you know, because they had a lot of, for lack of a better word, they had a lot of respect. They were like, you know, kids like, oh, what are you? So they actually did whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, so I could really-

Train them up. Yeah. And really know that my desires were going to be met every time as long as they were learned and, you know, train them up right. Right. They were going to listen and train up how I'd like them to be. And you're very specific in, like, what you want and what you need. Like, what is the most important, you know, sort of skill set or capacity of the tow and pilot? Like, what are you looking for? Like, what do they need to have and be?

They have to be very in tune with the ocean, very confident and very comfortable. And, you know, I've had some drivers that I worked with for years and they will never get it. They're basically, they're not in tune with the ocean or i don't know what it is but they'll never get it and other guys will get it like right out of the gate um coddy was already good and al was already good the first day when we towed i caught this long wave and i'm not sure exactly how i ended up on the inside but as it, he picks me up and we're flying in. And it's like the first time that we're gonna try and come back out.

And right there, I was like, it's on, you're good. We're ready. And when you're out there and I wanna work up to that. You're on the back of that sled and you don't know where you're going, but you can feel it. And he was flying in and then the biggest turn, and then I was like, yeah. That reminds me of how Anderson Cooper describes you.

Garrett, when he's talking about these waves, he's like, imagine you're, it's like you're cruising down the side of a skyscraper, but the skyscraper is collapsing on top of you. He's like, I've never met anyone like Garrett. Like it's so animated. He is the best. Yeah, he is the best.

So let's work our way up to that 78 footer. Like that was in the second year. So the first year you're out there, you spend the whole winter and it's really just getting everything set and you go back the second year. And was there a sense of possibility? Like, okay, now we're gonna execute.

We have all these pieces in place. I have the support I need. I've got the guys who have my back. They know what they're doing. Like everything is firing on all cylinders and we're good to go. Yeah, I was super confident. I visualized it. We manifest it.

We knew it was happening. My wife, Nicole, she's like, when she wants to manifest something, it happens the next day. We're gonna get into the manifesting piece. And funny thing is my whole life I had been manifesting, but I didn't really know until I watched The Secret. Like, I don't know,

maybe five years after it came out or something. And I was like, oh, that's what I've been doing this whole time. You're a generator manifester, right? In the human design. I'm actually a generator. Generator, straight up generator. Yeah, a generator.

Yeah, of course you are, right? Yeah. So even though you had spent that entire first winter there, it wasn't like, was anybody like in the surf world, like, oh, Garrett's out there? That was sort of dismissed, like, oh, who knows what he's doing out there? Actually, Kelly and I were communicating

before I went there. Yeah, and he would go there to hide from everybody. He, Panish is an hour, 45 minutes away where the contest is, and he would go to Nazareth, the lighthouse and just hide. And he surfed a couple of little breaks and had fun and really just enjoyed the power and just sat there in awe. And we talked about a month before I was going. And then-

Before you were going the first time? Yeah. And then two weeks before I went, he was on the lighthouse and he's like, Garrett, it's big, it's gnarly. If one mistake, you might not be going home. Please be really careful out here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, those are wise words from a guy who knows, but you had other plans. So you got the second year and this is where everything kind of lines up. And I gather that like the swells are pretty frequent.

You're not having to wait around too long before these big waves start rolling in. Like it's pretty on the regular. Yes, most frequent big wave spot in the world. Just the wind has to align. But nowadays the guys are going out no matter what it's like, even if it's all windy and choppy,

they're out there just charging. Yeah. How long into that second season before you catch this 78-footer? It was November 11th, or November 1st. Nicole, do you happen to remember when we actually were, I think it was pretty quick, wasn't it? When what? From the day we landed till the world record wave.

Yeah, it was quick because we probably, it was the first, well, we called Coddy and Al over and it was on, right? Mm-hmm, right. So you drop in on this huge wave, it gets documented. You already have like this documentary crew with you though. Like how, was the docu-u series already locked in and in place or was this just kind of amateur footage

that got cobbled together later once the documentary got underway? City Hall hired a still photographer to document what we're doing. He actually had a couple of go, or I had GoPros. I had GoPros. He had a camera that was HDV, so you could actually film.

Second I landed, we became friends and I said, please do not turn the video camera off. Right, so you just have all this footage. Yeah, and he did good, he did really good. Yeah, it's incredible how much archival footage there is from those first two years when nobody was expecting anything to happen. Yeah.

Yeah. So you ride this 78 footer, it's a story that quickly goes around the world, essentially the biggest wave ever surfed in the history of surfing. My first question is, and I kind of already know the answer, but I think it would be instructive

for everybody listening or watching, is how do you determine the size of a wave? And I loved CJ's description in the docuseries about the kind of less than scientific sciencey approach to calculating all of this. It's literally impossible to actually get the height of a wave just because of the, I mean, if you got the Google Earth things now

and you got these watches and you got everything measuring everything and it's still pretty much impossible because you gotta be able to come out to the flat and everybody's measuring about 20, 30 feet up from the flat. And then you got the contour. Are you actually measuring the distance of that contour or are you measuring a straight line straight up?

It's super controversial. Finding the top is very easy. But then in the rules, it's where the surfer is. So say it's 80 feet here here but the surfer's over here and it's 60 feet and then it changes a lot sure it it was where the surfer is on the wave under his feet there instead of the other 30 feet or 40 feet because the surfer is not necessarily at the bottom of the wave never we're never actually at the bottom of the wave. Never, we're never actually at the bottom. The wave could be getting larger as the ride goes on.

Yeah. Right, and then you have to take that. So you estimate where the bottom is, you know where it's cresting at the top, and then you have to measure the size of the surfer. And the surfer is generally in some kind of crouched position. They're not standing straight up.

So you can't say six feet or whatever. So you have to estimate that. And then you just do multiples of that to calculate it. Like it's, there's no way that you can get an accurate reading on this. And this is something that is completely ephemeral. Like it exists for a moment and then it's gone. And there's no way of going back in time to figure it out.

And people's careers are based around it. And they said that they measured my shin bone to get the size of the 78 foot wave. And nobody measured my shin bone. That you remember, right? And then there's the political aspect of it, right? Like who's making these decisions and what are their motivations?

Usually it's sponsors in control, but once in a while, there's no rhyme or reason. You're just like, but maybe it's continent. They want to sell more in that country or do more with surf in that country. And then other times, I think it's right on the money. The person who wins is supposed to win, but mostly it's politics.

Most is politics. The WSL manages that now, right? So they're independent on some level, yes. Yeah. That's good. They've grown women's surfing beyond, I love watching women's surfing now, the level of the surfing.

And at first I was like, what are they just trying to grow, but they hats off. They crushed it out of the park. And with this, the tour, they're doing great. With the big waves, it's always a battle with the surfers and their organization.

And hopefully someday everybody will see eye to eye and it'll go where it should be today. For toe surfing should be like the NASCAR of surf. I mean, it could be huge. You get these teams organized, you get these garages, you get, yeah, it could be huge. And people could really be, they could be retiring. But right now, one or two actually get paid

and the rest are just hanging on by a thread, working a day job and so they can surf. Yeah, well, I feel like that's changing though. People like yourself and Laird and figuring out ways of making people interested in this art form and sport is really creating a larger and larger audience for this. I mean, everybody wants to see somebody surf a gigantic wave as you know, right?

So you surf this 78 foot wave and the video and the photograph like quickly goes all around the world. And suddenly you being this relatively obscure later in life surfer is kind of foisted into the spotlight. And there's a lot of commentary around the validity of this whole thing, right? My sense was that the traditional surfing community was somewhat dismissive.

Like, oh, it's a mushy wave. Like that wave doesn't really count. Like who knows what's going out in Nazare. Like there was a level of dismissiveness initially. Yeah, definitely. Mainly the surfing world. The rest of the world loved it. Sure. Well, what do we know? CNN, it pops up on CNN and you see this tiny speck, you, going down this insane wave that looks like a sea monster, right? And you're like, wow, that's unbelievable. The main reason it was dismissed, number one, they didn't know or understand,

never been there. Number two, toe surfing was dead, as I shared earlier. So nobody wanted to know anything about toe surfing in the surfing world. Is that true though? Because Mavericks was a thing by now. And people were familiar with that. They closed, no more jet skis.

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, they turned it into a sanctuary. It still is today. A couple of guys go out when it's really big and safety guys are allowed. But yeah, they've closed toe surfing there. But it was challenging, yeah. You know, I was calling all my friends.

I was emailing everybody. I'm going to come on over this wave. And then all of a sudden, all this like whatever. So my wife was like, once you cross over to CNN, be ready. Because now you're in that world. Right. Are you sure you want to do that? And I'm like, I just want to surf.

The goal is to keep surfing. So whatever is the easiest way to keep surfing. And if we got the attention of the whole world, then the surfers will come. They'll get it together. And everybody embraces it now. And everybody's just so supportive. And we were at Malibu yesterday.

It was a dream. All the boys. And we're taking all the kids out. And it just felt like home. I felt it was so special. I've had a lot of good days in Malibu. I love Malibu, but yesterday was so special. Yeah, that's cool.

That's cool. And it is amazing because now everybody in the world who knows anything about surfing knows Nazare, right? And there's all this energy and focus on the winter season there and what's gonna happen. And it really goes back to you. You're like your patient zero. And you created like all of that out of your imagination

and a simple email that drew you there initially. And this belief, this idea that something that had not yet existed was possible. It's cool. It's really cool. Thank you. Yeah, man. So even after that happens,

you go back for the third year and it's not like, oh, suddenly like hundreds of surfers are showing up. The only people that show up, and I can't remember whether that was the third or the fourth winner there was the you know a handful of these Brazilians yeah they were the only ones who said we need to go check this out yeah there was uh a few teams that showed up on their own and they were all hungry and there was yeah it was it was interesting to watch it was fun to actually see somebody else ride the wave.

Yeah. To go on the cliff and actually watch for a minute. Yeah, but what was interesting to me about that was the fact that they came in and despite the fact that you had three seasons banked and all this experience, they didn't seem all that interested in tapping into that knowledge base.

They were gonna go and figure it out on their own terms. And they kind of got spanked. I mean, Maya almost died as a result of that. And it was totally unnecessary. Yeah, it was very surprising. I'm an open book. I love to share. I love everybody to succeed.

I don't try and hide things to, I go, I got the best board and I'm just gonna not let anybody have access. I don't try and hide things to, you know, I go, I got the best board and I'm just gonna not let anybody have access. I share everything and I was ready to share everything, but I didn't wanna impose, you know, when you impose people don't listen anyway. And we were talking with Carlos and Maya and maybe a few other-

We're talking about Maya Gabera then went on to be the, you know, the world record setter for serving the largest wave for a woman. She's super inspiring herself, her story and her achievements, and her movie's coming out soon. But my wife says, look,

where I was leaving, and she grabbed me, she said, you gotta go back there and tell them that if they fall here, they don't go that way, they go that way. So I grabbed them and I told me. She, you got to go back there and tell them that if they fall here, they don't go that way. They go that way. So I grabbed them and I told them, okay, if anybody falls, they go to the, they go South.

They don't go, cause you would think it would go North up the beach, but you go South into the corner. And, and I explained very clearly, but then when that accident happened, they did the opposite. They went. And they didn't have a rescue wave runner. That was the big thing, right?

Yeah, yeah. And of communication I think was down or something. Yeah, so Maya goes down hard. She basically not only almost died, like did she actually die for a moment? Like they had to resuscitate her. It was bad, right? And then she has like a four year period

of trying to rehabilitate herself before she comes back. Yeah, she's superhuman. That girl is, she's excelling as good or better than all the guys out there these days. Yeah, when she finally broke the record, which what was that 2020, I think, when she was like a 73 footer or something. The New York Times article about that

was written by Adam Skolnick, who's my co-host here. Oh, no way. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, so we've talked about Maya. You gotta get her on here. We've talked about you before. I'd love to have her on here.

She's good. She'd be fantastic. And she's very well spoken. Yeah, cool. Talk to me about the relationship with fear. I mean, this is the low hanging fruit question, right? Everybody wants to know, like, what is, you know, what is it about you that makes you uniquely suited to, you know, approach these giant waves and, you know,

sort of from a perspective of enthusiasm rather than terror? Well, my trainer says my body type is perfect for big waves. I don't know about all that. Because why? The length of the legs and the arms and the torso. And yeah, but I had surfed the glacier waves in Alaska. The waves that are caused by calving glaciers. And after that day, there's fear that I,

the fear that I had when that glacier came down on that first wave and I let go of the rope and I'm riding this teeny little wave and looking at the glacier thinking, oh shit, it could fall again and then I'm dead, crushed. It was overwhelming. And then when I went back, I had already surfed so many waves, so many big waves all over the world and gotten in so many good pounding. The way I always approached it was all or nothing, to get the ultimate ride, the ultimate feeling. So I would always go as deep as possible if I could, put it all on the line. And with that approach, you don't make 50% of your waves. And I didn't mind because I felt like ready and I could

handle it I could hold my breath long I was strong and um with that yeah so I had first of all endured so many heavy poundings and then I went into the glacier and got desensitized from fear after the glacier it was a funny standing joke. Whenever I kicked out of a wave in Tahiti where it's the most death, the fine, my boys would be in the channel. Did you get the rush? And I'd be like, not really a little, maybe not the real deal. And so after 2007, I didn't, I wasn't afraid in the ocean anymore. After the glacier, I literally was not afraid. I enjoyed all the situations I've gotten myself into after that. Yeah. Like thoroughly enjoyed them.

Just to paint the picture though, a little bit more thoroughly, the footage of you in Alaska trying to surf these waves that are being created by the calving of these glaciers is absolutely harrowing. I mean, massive sheets of ice are just falling off the sheer cliffs of these gigantic glaciers,

which are causing a tsunami that you're there to ride, right? Yeah, it is literally, yeah. And you have to position yourself close enough to the edge of the glacier in order to catch that wave, right? And if the ice falls directly down, like in a sheath, it's all good. But if it decides to tip backwards and land flat like a pancake.

Bookshelf. Is that what they call it? Because it's the book. You're literally getting crushed like an ant. Is that so the sense that that could be possible at any moment was, and that's one of the few times where you're like, I'm out. Like that first day there, you're like, this is not okay.

I always visualize a positive outcome and always work on being positive and seeing success. In that moment, I visualized being smashed like a tomato is what I've been. And that was just, yeah, brought me to my knees. and I visualized being smashed like a tomato is what I've been. And that was just, yeah, brought me to my knees. And even if you survive that and you're riding the wave, there's gigantic pieces of ice everywhere, right?

Like, I mean, the prospect that you would collide with one of those is pretty high. And they're literally sharp cement floating somehow. Yeah, it would be just like careening into a brick wall. Yes. Yeah. I mean, like why? It's really funny what friends will talk you into doing

and yeah, be careful what those friends talk you into. Right. You did end up doing it that second day when you were out there doing it. I don't think things through too much. I just think if I feel if it's a good idea or not, and then I go. And then once I get into what I've decided to do,

I'm like, uh-oh, still try to stay positive, see the positive. It's a gut read, it's a gut instinct. Yeah, all gut, you know, us generators. There you go, right? But, you know, this gets you into trouble a little bit. Like when you, I think it was, was it 2016, when you had spent a number of seasons at Nazare,

but you're like, I wanna go surf these other breaks and be part of this competition of surfing the biggest waves all over the world and kind of travel a little bit more, that lands you back at Mavericks. And the first wave out where you took this crazy spell and end up getting severely injured and sends you down like a number of years to kind of get well again,

I couldn't help but think like, was there a little bit of ego and hubris? Like I've been surfing Nazare for a number of years now, like what's the big deal with Mavericks? I can go out here and do it no problem. Like having a little bit too cavalier of an attitude and lacking a little bit of respect for mother nature. So I went out a couple of sessions before that one.

And it was the most crowded day ever. And I got every single wave I wanted. Everybody was all grumpy. That's not in the series. I didn't get that part. It would have been nice. But I just got every, people were blown away.

Because Nazare, you don't know where it's going to break. And I've been surfing that for five years. All of a sudden, I show up at Mavericks, peak, go. And I caught every wave i was like in heaven i was like this is too easy and uh so then i'm like okay i want to begin this contest

and so i went back every time i went back two times and the third time was that january just got back from nazaree had a sore neck going there for the wrong reasons, not for fun and not, I mean, I was going for fun, but I was thinking about getting in a contest, getting invited. How do I get invited? I got to show a good showing. Yeah, they told you, you couldn't do it unless you showed up at Mavericks a number of times.

And I'd been serving there. Put your reps in. Yeah, so wrong reason going there for a contest instead of going there just for fun right and not my neck was really sore that day so i blew up my inflation vest a little bit so i could actually rest on it while i'm passing like a pillow and uh board was a little too flat in the tail. It should have had more rocker. It was, I got these two waves that were 60 feet, the two previous swells. And the Peter Mel wave,

you know where the Peter Mel wave, you see that thing? It was the best wave ever ridden at Mavericks. I was searching for that for years. And for the two sessions before the wipeout, I got one of those. Paddled, started, and then it doubled up, and I couldn't make it down.

So I'm standing, but I get kicked out the back twice, two different sessions. So I'm like, I'm getting a bigger board, a heavier board. I'm going back there. I'm getting that wave. That would have been a good story to tell. Bam. Yeah.

Smack me down. Yeah, a little, probably not as much. But I have all the respect, ultimate respect. I think the no fear was a little bit, it didn't make me as focused and cautious as maybe I could be. Yeah. More just like, whatever, just go.

If I eat it, no problem. I don't wanna eat it, but bring it on. Right. So you break your foot, you I eat it, no problem. I don't wanna eat it, but take the, bring it on. Right, so you break your foot, you smash your shoulder, all kinds of stuff, right? That really benched you for a long time. Yeah, still today, I mean, scar tissue. Oh, wow, so you can't straighten your left arm? I can, but with help.

But it gets better every day. Yeah, we're gonna talk a little bit about the yoga and all that kind of stuff too. Before we kind of get into your backstory, I do wanna talk about the 100-foot wave phenomenon, right? Like, I guess I'm probably one of those people who thought you surfed a 100-foot wave. I think there's a lot of people out there that just think of you as like, oh, that's the guy who surfed a 100-foot wave. I think there's a lot of people out there that just think of you as like,

oh, that's the guy who surfed the 100-foot wave because that iconic famous photo, probably the most iconic big wave surfing photo ever taken was you dropping in on this wave that ultimately never really broke. And you kind of surf out of it on the left-hand side, but you were on it long enough for that snap that went around the world and the mainstream news outlets,

all reporting that you surfed a hundred foot wave. That was, be careful. That was kind of like the bane of your existence, but also like the thing that, you know, drew a lot of attention to you. Yeah, it was the most beautiful picture I think I've ever seen and such a special moment. I was so focused.

I waited in the water for two, three hours for that wave. That's the big mama. That's the right that goes into the safest wave. If it's over 80, under 80, the most dangerous wave because it goes straight on the rocks. Over 80 goes into the channel, breaks on that 60 foot shelf. It was almost broken to 60

and then kind of came into the 40 and just kind of fizzled off into the thousand foot channel. So if they didn't show us at the end of that wave, I kicked out and Kaylee came to get me and missed me and flew off the ski as well. Then the second rescue came in, went by Kaylee. He's like, and it went by Kaylee and got me, but I'm paddling this little six foot twig

that I can barely paddle with all this rotation and the rocks are right there and I'm right here. And this white, the second wave was bigger. So the white water is coming at me. And I push the board. And I swim under. And I'm in this flotation suit that is just too much flotation to swim under. And I would have landed right on the rocks.

There was a GoPro footage of that that wasn't shown either. It would have been cool. But that ride was very special, but I was very, I was not happy at all when I kicked out of that wave. It was, you know, I just didn't do what I wanted it to do. Right, it wasn't a full ride, right? And you even said like, please don't share those images.

I didn't really ride this wave. It wasn't. Nonetheless, they leak out, they go everywhere. This creates a huge media cycle around the whole thing. You're like, I didn't even ride. I never said it was a hundred foot wave. How did that become a thing? Most challenging part was Surfer Europe. The photographer Tom Monet sent it to Surfer Europe and Surfer Europe titles it, sent it to Surfer Europe. And Surfer Europe titles it McNamara Claims to Have Surfed 100 Foot. I mean, when you look at it, did it measure out to be a 100-foot wave or no? It depends who's measuring. But the top to the actual bottom with the curve, 100%, guarantee 100-foot wave.

But from here to there, I don't know, probably like 60, 70. So why didn't you fully ride it? Why did you decide to kick out? It just ended. The rocks were right there. Because it wasn't breaking. It was one of those cross ones that don't actually break. The one behind broke.

Should have waited for the second wave. Wow, man, it's crazy. I wanna talk about your upbringing. It's so colorful and unique. I mean, you have this truly original way in which you were reared. I mean, you have this, you know, truly original way in which you were reared. I mean, almost feral as a child. So talk a little bit, I mean, you were born in Massachusetts,

but you really kind of grew up in Berkeley. Paint the picture of, you know, what a typical day was like for you and your brother. Well, when we showed up in Berkeley, People's Park Riot has just finished and you know there's a lot of tension in the air but it was just kind of subsiding and I was just one and a half so I didn't really know much except uh you know there was like 20 people living in this three-bedroom house and my parents would go leave anytime they wanted and I'd be home with some babysitter

who was not really a babysitter, just one of the hippies who was hanging out. So this was the commune house that your mom started. In Berkeley, it was the gathering to get the commune people to go. The commune was in Sonoma, right? Berkeley, I mean, Casadero, yeah, Sonoma County, yeah. So your mom like inherited some money

and that was the goal, like I'm gonna build a community, a hippie community. Exactly, and she did really well. I mean, we had some professors and there was people studying us and it was a really good group of people. They were very free spirited, everybody's running around naked,

taking whatever drugs they felt like taking that day and doing whatever it felt like doing on that day. And, um, it was super, um, I, I really enjoyed those, those times. Um, it was just, we were free and my wife always says you were basically free from, from one, one and a half, one and a half, they found me a mile down the road, Stoppers Boarding School, upstate New York. They found me a mile down a dirt road, getting ready to enter the highway in my diaper. And the cops pulled over, grabbed me.

And they call the house. They're like, oh, you guys missing a girl? And my mom, like, girl, no. And if she looked, oh, that's my, that's my check the diaper oh yeah it was a boy has my gear bring them home i'd broke i just disappeared but you know she was always busy and didn't really i mean we let her watch our kids once in a while and if we will watch from the window and she'll be going that way and the kids would be like, oh, oh. Yeah, there's another word for that. That's less kind. I mean, it's crazy that today,

child services would have been called and that might've been that between you and your mom. I mean, it's pretty neglectful situation. And all the way- I don't think she wasn't neglectful. She was just very self-absorbed. Right. There's another word for that too.

It's interesting, you know, my sense is that your mom, whether it's narcissism or neglect or just being consumed with her own quest, you know, find meaning in her life or find God or whatever it is, you and your brother just didn't, you know, really find your way onto her priority list in a healthy way. And every time you kind of characterize your childhood,

cause I've listened to a number of interviews with you, you're always painting it in bright, colorful language. Like it was fun and we got to do what we wanted. And, you know, it was, I have joyous memories of all of that. But Nicole's like, yeah, that's, there's another version of that story. Like to me, like this is a traumatic experience

that it seems like you found a way to compartmentalize or to process in your own way. And maybe that comes out in your surfing and in your quest for adventure in these various ways. But I would imagine it was very difficult with all the adventures that you went on with your parents. Yeah, the 100-foot wave shows a bit and it's interesting. It's my favorite.

Number three is my favorite with all that craziness, but it's nothing compared to what we went through. There was barely scratched the surface. And then the book, The Hound of the Sea, it shares a little, but it's nothing to scratch the surface. So when the feature film comes out, it's going to be...

Is there a feature coming? I don't know. I'm a generator. So I can't go and add. But if somebody comes to me and wants to do a feature film, I'll definitely entertain it. But they don't understand

what's the stories and the craziness. And just, I mean, it would be kind of, if we did it right, it would be like R to the max and just, I mean, it would be kind of, if we did it right, it would be like R to the max and just whacked out and people would blow their mind. So what is it about it that hasn't been told? I mean, so there's this community in Berkeley, ultimately there's this commune in Sonoma. At some point, this isn't doing it for your mom

and she wants to go to Mexico. Your dad wants to stay. You go with your mom. Your brother gets left behind. You end up on all these crazy adventures down. You get left. Did you get like, you got left with a family? A Mexican family.

A Mexican family. Don Pepe and the family. Cause your mom was off on her own. Going to pick up money. I think she was going to get money or I don't know what she was doing. She was always trying to figure out how to pick up money from the inheritance at some bank or somewhere

and then always doing something. Yeah, there was a lot of times when we got left with different people. But that was by your recollection, like a stable, healthy environment when you got left with that family. That was a really good experience. There was animals and you could have stayed there. I loved it. They were just beautiful Mexican family that had a ranch. And so I guess she felt really safe. You know, I have to give my mom a lot of credit. She moved us to Hawaii. She gave us our free spirit. She, she loved us. She would play music,

sing us, sing, put us, I mean, she was, she was good overall. It was very unconventional, but yeah,

she was loving and she was, you know, just, you know, my wife now is a polar opposite. She is 100% present all the time. And so I got, you know, I think that's what really attracted me to her

is that I was always looking for my mama. Yeah. Well, you could have very well ended up marrying a version of your mom. I mean, that's what a lot of people do. They seek out that same kind of relationship again and the pattern repeats itself. So it feels like you course corrected here

and found the healthiest type of relationship that you could to kind of mend that and sort of arrest the repetition of that unhealthy cycle. I just had the podcast that just went up this week is with this guy, Dr. Gabor Mate. I don't know if you've heard of him or followed any of his work, but- It does sound familiar.

He became prominent for his work around addiction and recovery and this thesis that he has that most addicts or addictions can be traced back to unresolved or unhealed childhood trauma. And he's sort of more currently extrapolated on that thesis to say that so much of what ails us, whether it's physical or mental,

can be traced back to unhealed trauma. And that discussion around trauma and how it manifests in our lives and later in life in terms of like behaviors that we perpetuate or relationships that we get involved in, I think is really profound. And one of the things that he helped me reckon with is this idea of separating,

like when you look at how you were parented, right? Like I love my mom and my dad or whatever, and I don't wanna say anything bad about them, but he was able to help me understand, like you're not vilifying them. But he was able to help me understand like, you're not vilifying them. Like they did the best that they could. It doesn't mean that they're bad people,

but that also doesn't mean that you didn't incur trauma because of decisions that they made about how they parented you. And I feel like you're protecting your mom and maybe there's an opportunity, a growth opportunity for you to really get into some of what transpired when you were younger in a way that you can make peace with it

that would make you feel more whole. Funny, I always work on being positive and, but there was definitely things I held on to. And I did a 3.3 gram mushroom medicine. Right. I did four days in the mountains doing the medicine wheel. It's a book where you go through and work on all these different things that apply to mostly your past.

And then you go to do the mushroom. The medicine isn't required or necessary. If you do the book, you can do it in your living room. Better to go to the mountains and away from everybody. That's what I did. But then I did a 3.3 gram journey. I let go of everything, said thank you to it all. It's like, yeah, I feel so light and so good.

And none of it is holding me back or taking me down or weighing on me. It's all, I've had a nice conversation. Thank you, not serving me anymore. Love you. That's great. Good for you, man. Did you do that under supervision

or just read this book and decided to do a DIY trip? A good friend of mine, Eric Neese, he shared the book with me and then he flew over and guided the journey. Right, wow. How long ago was that? Three months ago, what? Three or four months? Oh, it was recent.

Wow, wow. But that Yeah. Wow. Wow. But that was a breakthrough for you. Oh, visiting all these things that are just stuck, letting them go, loving them. Choosing to love them all was the key. Choosing to love all those situations, all those challenging moments, all those life experiences that you might categorize as,

like, ah, I love you, that you might categorize as like, ah, I love you, thank you. Right. You got me where I am today, I love you, thank you. I wouldn't be right here now. That's true. I love you, thank you. All of these experiences are here to create, you know, this incredible hero's journey

that you've been on. You end up in Hawaii. At some point, Liam comes, but your brother is back in the picture, right? Like you and your mom and your brother all go together to the North Shore. Yep. Because she hooked up with some other dude or there's a stepdad involved or what was happening?

A musician, a black musician. His name was Daryl. And we tried to go to Florida like two or three times. First, when we jump in the car, you place an ad, and somebody, okay, yeah, come drive with me. Some whack job, like weirdo. We jump out quick, like a couple miles down the road. I think this happened twice, going to Florida.

And then we're going to Hawaii. All of our friends throw this big party for us. Oh, sorry, we can't go. Finally, Daryl actually gets us to Hawaii. Through Daryl, we got to Hawaii. And we end up on the North Shore. And probably, I mean, we're in Hawaii on the North Shore, but we're in the least desired spot called Cement City.

Right. So it's kind of like affordable housing project type apartment buildings. Yes. And we were, you know, Darrell was a musician and he actually worked with Don Hose, a daughter, and he was good. And then he left as soon as we got there.

Oh, he split? My mom. So then we were on welfare and government assistance and this, and my mom was just depressed. And you're like, what? 11, 11. I went to first year of elementary, was the only white boy in the class

and all Filipinos and Hawaiians. And you basically didn't really go to school though, right? Like you'd go in the front door and out the back door? That was during elementary in California. Oh, wow. I never went to school. We would go to UC Berkeley every day and hang out on the campus from five to,

no, from like six or seven to 11. We never went to school. We would literally go climb the fire escape of these buildings and go and pull all the marijuana plants and go home and roll fat joints. We're getting 10 years old. So you're smoking fat joints at 10? We're rolling fat joints at 10.

Oh my God. We ate peyote up there and I ate peyote was about five. Was that because your dad was running a vegetarian restaurant and he was serving it at the restaurant? Is that true? He wasn't serving vegetarian restaurant and he was serving it at the restaurant? Is that true? He wasn't serving pot, but he had an omelet,

it was Mod Goodness Cafe on the Shattuck and Ashby. Right in the thick of it. Yeah, and we were on Emerson, the two block street. It was right back from Shattuck, one block back from Shattuck and Ashby. Holy Foods was on the corner. I don't know if it turned into Whole Foods,

but it was Holy Foods. Yeah, so yeah, we were wild and we were free and we did whatever we wanted. We would stay out till 12 to whatever, from seven to 11, we were free. There was the serial killer was on, like killing right in our down. We lived out there until-

Was that Zodiac era? I think so. I don't know which one it was, but we were out when he was out and we weren't supposed to be. It's total insanity. It reminds me of a- I now imagine that put that into a, yeah.

I mean, yeah. It's like, have you read Flea's book, "'Acid for the Children"? I was just looking at that. Yeah, I have it right, yeah, it's like, have you read Flea's book, Acid for the Children? I was just looking at that. Yeah, I have it right over there. You should read that book. I mean, it's pretty similar. I mean, he was a feral kid and he had, you know,

kind of a chaotic, you know, family situation, but he was just running wild on the streets of LA at a very young age. You know, it's a version of your story in some ways. Yeah, we skimmed the surface on, I mean, you paint those pictures of killers over there on the left and you're over here on the right, shooting off rockets that you stole that day.

Right. All right, so you're in Hawaii, elementary school. At some point, a surfboard gets introduced to you. I mean, you're on the North Shore. It's almost inevitable that you're going to end up in the waves. We were super lucky. Normally, a Howley who enters a school, you're going to get beat and it's not going to be fun.

I got super lucky. First day of school, I had a fight with this one guy and got him good. And then the gnarliest guys in the school came and we were best friends and we made a gang. We had our leather jackets. Yeah, it was funny. And then the principal callsliest guys in the school came and we were best friends and we made a gang. We had our leather jackets. Yeah, it was funny. And then the principal calls in the office and says, oh, no gangs in my school.

Takes our leather jackets. But sorry, the question, where were we going? Surfboard. Surfboard. Mom goes to a garage sale and buys a board for 15 bucks and brings it home. And that was our board. It was like 12 feet long, about 50, 60 pounds. And think in the book, it says we found it in the bushes.

Yeah, there's a lot of different. My brother said that, my brother remembers everything, my brother, Liam. And it was like a love at first sight type of deal or how did the relationship with surfing kind of flourish from there? Well, the first encounter was with our best friend, Butchie Boy and his dad had a bunch of knee boards,

these beautiful artwork on these knee boards on the wall and then it was his birthday and he said, oh, come, we'll go surfing, my dad's knee boards and we went out and we weren't about to stay on our knees so we went straight to our feet, fell in love. That was it. Nothing mattered on the land. Whatever's going on the land disappeared. You're in the water, you got shorts, warm water, surfboard. You're just in heaven. It was just too good. It consumed us and became our passion, became our love, became my

everything. It was a bit, took Liam a few more years. He loved baseball and he was already being scouted by the UH was scouting him. Oh, wow. Yeah, and I didn't realize that initially he's the surf star. Oh, for 10 years he made- He was the guy, like he was a big deal. Big, he made as much or more money than every anybody

for about 10 years. And he made money for at least a whole of 20, maybe 25 years, good money. Right, he's your younger brother. Yeah. Yeah, and so he's getting all these accolades. He's on the cover of all the magazines. He's taking home prize money. But ultimately, like he becomes a victim

of his own character defects, right? Like he's a hothead and ultimately ends up like making a lot of enemies. At least that's the way the narrative is spun in the docu-series. He was, he didn't back down. He ruled Rocky Point and did his best to rule pipeline, did his best to rule both those spots.

Those two spots were the most photographed spots in the world. He got more waves than anybody guaranteed for 10 years. So he had a really good career just based on pipe and Rockies. We loved going to Japan. We go to Australia. I would kind of be in his shadow,

get to go along once in a while and try and surf in the contest. I never did any good. He would always kind of, he would do, he was a fierce competitor. He was gonna beat you. You have to get three waves in 20 minutes.

He's gonna paddle around you and take the best three waves of the heat if possible. And he's not gonna let you get any waves. Forget the etiquette and the decorum. But there was none when it came to those heats. All the boys, all the surfers, it was dog eat dog. And you're not friends once you get in that heat. Nowadays, it's a little different.

They're a little more friendly until the end. Oh, the priority. It's just there's real rules now with the priority. But back then, if you're Hawaiian or you're from Hawaii, you had an edge. Because all the surfers around the world want to go to Hawaii. And if you're a badass and you hung with the boys, you're one of the boys, when they come to Hawaii,

they're going to get sent home if they mess with you anywhere else. So even in these heats in Japan. And he's being rewarded for that behavior. He's the bad boy of surfing until the magazines blackballed him and the judges started giving him.5

less always if he was going to win a heat he had to really win it like there was a pipe masters that he I think he won I'd like to watch the tapes again but they scored Kelly Slater.5 higher on each scored Kelly Sater 0.5 higher on each wave and scored him a 0.5 lower on each wave. And yeah.

And ultimately at some point you start catching up to him. So what was going on? How were you able to no longer be the older brother in the wake of his younger brother and surpass him? It's funny because I'm still, I'm really no longer in the wake, but once brother and surpass him. It's funny because I'm still, I'm really no longer in the wake, but once in a while I'll meet somebody who knows Liam or knows of Liam and didn't know me.

And they're like, whoa, you guys are totally opposite. But toe surfing, I started toe surfing to get away from all the crowds. There's so many crowds and Laird and Buzzy and Derek show up with their jet Zodiac and I saw, and so I ran home, I got my board, I'm sitting at sunset with my 10 foot board and I'm about to paddle out there to ask them to tow me into one.

And this was the first, very first experiment with this Buzzy Kerbox and yeah, that original OG toe and crew. And I've sat on the beach with my jaw. You know, the old cartoon characters where their jaw drops to the ground and didn't move. That was an inflection point. Me and Johnny Boy Gomes and we're just watching.

And then I, from then on, I was obsessed. I bought a Zodiac, painted giant shark mouth on it, tried to do it with my Zodiac. It was, and then my friends got a Sea-oo jet boat charlie walker and dawson jones got this pontoon jet ski with a pontoon basically and they brought me in and that was it that was it so it went from i'm never gonna be a big wave surfer that wasn't cool to it's all about big waves now well no i i actually was from till 16 i was scared to death of big waves i was not going to surf a wave over 10 feet 10 feet face and then after 16 i i fell in love with big waves a friend made me go out when i did not want to and

gave me the right board gave me the right advice and i got every wave i wanted so i live for big wave from that day forward but it was a my career was based around japanese sponsors pretty much a couple usa sponsors and then uh i loved big waves but there wasn't much there for a big wave surfer you know there wasn't really these soul surfers or free surfers but i like call a soul surfer but i made a little money like 500 a month maybe 1500 the most for all these years i had to rent rooms to pay for the pay the bills and in my house and then uh toe surfing was to get away from everybody and all of a sudden it became this cool sport that actually everybody was interested in because you know all of us have had an experience in the water a

traumatic experience in the water whether it's a bathtub a lake a river an ocean sometime throughout our life most all humans have had a traumatic we have utmost respect for waves and then big waves. Like how? And so they're just captivated and interested. So all of a sudden this, I was into- A lot of energy around this thing. Yeah. That you had been into just for the pure joy of it,

not because like, oh, there's a way to be pro and a way to support myself doing this. So you become the guy who's working to live, right? Like it's just, I gotta make enough money so that I can go surf the waves I wanna surf. The money was more for the family. When I got the job, when I got the store, it was just kind of like-

You got kids. It was just to stay home and take care of the kids and hopefully take them all on a trip. Right, so you open up this store on the North shore. Was it a surf shop? What kind of store was it? Yeah, it was called Epic Sports and it was a surf shop,

but there was a little bit of MMA stuff in there. The bad boy was my partner and sponsor. And that's between, how old are you during this period? I was 35. Yeah, I think about 35 is when I actually, oh wait, it was 35 was when I closed the store. It was 30 to 32 to 35. Right, so for three years, okay,

I'm not gonna go work in a cubicle. I'm gonna be a little bit of a small business entrepreneur. At least I can control some aspect of my destiny. Oh, I was creating an epic empire. It was not gonna be small. Oh really, okay. Huge worldwide. Right, so this was franchises of this store

all over the world, surfing meets MMA. Yeah, epic sports. All right. But quickly you become a bit of a working stiff, right? Who's like driving by the waves on the way to work and kind of living this life of quiet resignation. Yeah, I gave up on my passion, opened that store and quiet was the word.

And you're doing what you need to do to support your family, pay the bills and be responsible adult. That's what I thought, but it definitely brought me to become somewhat depressed. And it's just because I would drive by these perfect waves every day going to work. And I'd be like, oh, I'm going to work and I'm going to wave.

Yeah, I see a lot of myself in this story. I mean, the facts of my narrative are quite different, but I had my version of that, like at 40, this existential kind of crisis about what I was doing, how I was spending my time, the choices that I had made about how to make a living and just being deeply unhappy with all of that,

but also feeling very confused about how to resolve that, right? So walk me in your version of this story, like what was the tipping point or what, you know, what occurred to lead you to this place of saying, I can't do this anymore. Like there's something else, something bigger, something better out there for me.

If you don't mind, I'd like to know your tipping point. Well, I gotta, I'll give you this book, but I had, I mean, mine was, you know, mine came in the form of a little bit of a health scare that coincided with this, you know, kind of low grade depression about, you know, where I was in my life. And that created a little bit of a perfect storm. And my resolution began with just changing my relationship

to myself first through food and then through movement. And that very slowly kind of led me in a new direction. So it wasn't like a lightning bolt kind of thing where everything changed quickly. It was a very gradual shift. Well, interesting, I'm gonna get that book. Yeah, I got it. If you sign it for me, I'll read it.

Definitely, this is a copy for you. If you sign it for me, I'll read it. I'll definitely do that. This is about you, bro. Okay, so going, driving to the store, perfect waves, gotta go work. That was where it was like, and I started drinking coffee at 35 or 33. When I opened the store, the first time I started drinking coffee. Meaning like for the first time in your life,

you needed something external, exogenous to excite you or give you energy. Whereas prior to that, you never needed that. Nope. And so we get to the store and I remembered, okay, I wrote a business plan for this store. I got that business plan for dummies book and it made a business plan for the store.

And I'm like, oh, let's see if we can do that Got that businessman for dummies book and made a businessman for the store. And I'm like, oh, let's see if we can do that to keep surfing. So I put on the keep surfing, the goals, win the Eddie, win the Jaws. How do I do that? I eat very, you know, the eating program, the training program, the manifesting, visualizing. the manifesting, visualizing, and did that from that day since I wrote that plan and focused, put so much time in it. I had put it on the refrigerator, I put it in the car, I put it in the bathroom mirror, the map,

the blueprint to achieve these goals. So there was clarity though, you knew, okay, I gotta get back to surfing. How am I gonna do that? I've got a family, I've got bills. Well, Jaws, Eddie, those are contests with prize money. So the quickest way to put money in the bank account is to win one of those.

How am I gonna win one of those in the short term? And then long-term it becomes about sponsors and all of that, right? So is that what the business plan looked like? Like I'm interested in like, what were the line items, in the business plan and how did those translate into sticky notes with specific goals or mantras that were gonna lead you in that direction?

It was the winning was everything because with that would come the sponsors and the partners. And did you have a history of winning competitions where you knew that that was a feasible possibility or was that more like a pipe dream to win a big contest like that? I've been surfing Waimea more than anybody up to the store. I'd been towing.

I was real confident that I was going to win. I knew that Eddie, I was winning. There was no doubt in my mind. And the Jaws, I thought I could win that as well until I went there after writing my goals. I went there for the first time. They called the contest on and it was windy and small

so they canceled it but we went out and towed it for the first time and it was terrifying. So powerful. And I was like, oh, I'm winning the Eddie. I just want to come home in Maui at Jaws. I just want to come home. So for people that don't know, Jaws

is the huge wave on Maui. It's the one that Laird kind of made famous. Totally, Laird and Derek and Buzzy. And this was at the time when it was all about Jaws, right? Because Laird was there and that was the Nazare of that moment. Yes. Yeah.

And Eddie is North Shore Oahu. So that's your backyard. That's- Literally, I can see it from my front yard. So it would make sense. Oh, well, Eddie is probably the better opportunity for you because you know it so well. Contest day arrives.

They call both of them on same day. They don't have, we don't have the computers looking at the buoys. You had to call every hour to see where the buoys are at because that's how you know how big the waves are going to be. And I'm literally calling every hour, checking the buoys, checking the buoys, all the way. I'd sleep a little bit, call, sleep a little, call, sleep.

4 a.m., I was still undecided. I had my partner, Rodrigo Orzende, my teammate on Maui waiting, and I was in the eddy. The previous year, I'm the only surfer in history that I was number nine alternate and number nine didn't come and I'm paddling out. Elijah Young didn't show. This is at eddy.

I'm paddling out in the eddy. I get out there. Elijah makes it, paddles out. Garrett, you got to paddle in. Meaning you're out. You can't compete. Right. Devastated beyond, but okay. But the universe has another plan for you, Garrett. Right? So I'm still, now I'm seventh alternate, not ninth. And yeah, I just couldn't see myself sitting on that beach not knowing if i could surf or not and the main thing is i had my teammate waiting for me so at 4 a.m i rushed

to the airport got on the plane and went to shot over to maui yeah right and said let's drop in here what was the difference in prize money between eddie and jaws well eddie was i don't know like 20 grand or something like that. Oh, maybe 50. Eddie could have been kind of high back then. But Eddie was kind of the more- Most prestigious. Eddie Aikau. That's his last name, right? So it's in honor of this legendary surfer.

And that was like the prestigious one to win. Eddie Aikau, invitational, the one we all big wave surfers dream to be in, it's like the pinnacle. And the Jaws is the first of its kind, but they had $70,000 prize money. More prize money, but you're less experienced on this wave. You had never surfed this wave before.

And my partner, get this, he's never towed before. So he shows up on Oahu. This is not looking good. He shows up on Oahu and I tell him, okay, let's go practice. So I take him over to this little wave. It's called Police Beach. And it's this little teeny wave that's about this tall, maybe a little bigger. But it breaks just like Jaws, a nice right to go in the channel, and left, it's kind of gnarly.

And I tell him, just put me on that right, and it's this big. And he puts me exactly on the way, perfect. And I'm like, oh, we got this. Don't worry. He's like, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm like, we got it. We got it. Don't worry.

Because I had my plan. I knew how to win, and I knew what to do, and I shared with him, and we focused and we didn't train that much. But I knew that he just had to put me on the wave. The rescue guys would pick me up. So he would put me on the wave, rescue guys would get me. And he was like a shark.

He was a badass. He was so in tune. You know how I was sharing some people will never learn and other people learn quick. I was a slow learner. It took me a while to get good. This guy was good instantly. So, and he surfed better than every,

he was more focused than any big wave surfer at that time for paddling. So you go to Jaws and you feel confident, but it wasn't like there was an expectation that you were gonna win this competition, right? Who were the people that were expected to win? Oh, they were all there. Parsons and Gerlach and all the Maui boys. that you were gonna win this competition, right? Who were the people that were expected to win? They were all there, Pysons and Gerlach

and all the Maui boys. I mean, yeah, it was a really good solid showing. Uh-huh. But you felt- Yeah, they definitely, none of them were probably thinking about me and Rodrigo. Right, and you're how old, 35? 35.

35, right? So not exactly in the prime of your physical career as a professional athlete. Hey, what are you talking about? I know we're gonna get to that part. Like it's all love Garrett. Listen, I didn't start getting into my athletic stuff until my 40s.

Oh wow. All right, so long story short, you ended up winning this competition. Like when you think back on that, I mean, two questions. First, what was it that you did that allowed you to win? Like what was the secret sauce in that victory? And then perhaps more importantly, like what do you make of that in retrospect,

looking back at the arc of your story and kind of everything that's transpired as a result, because this is another huge inflection point that sets up the ability for you to have a life as a surfer and go on to do all these other things. First of all, we had a magic seven, two brewer and from Laird and them working with Dick, they made what was the best at that time. And I was lucky enough to tap into that. It's like specific for Jaws.

Yes. But didn't everybody have that board or no? They all had versions, their own version, but 7-2, that was long. We're on 6-0s now. It was still dinosaur. And everybody had dinosaurs, but they all had the similar dinosaurs

compared to what we're on now. But so I sat him down. I said, look, he went first for, I think it was like 45 minutes, 30, 30, 30, 45 minutes. And then I, we had half, half of the heat was me, half of the heat was him. I said, look, we're're making you make three waves no matter what i'm putting you in a safe enough spot so you can make the waves i remember i was a really good driver already so i put him

in a safe zone so he could make the waves he made us three after you make three waves you can then we'll get barreled that was the goal then pull in but until you make three waves, then we'll get barreled. That was the goal. Then pull in. But until you make three waves, don't even think about pulling in. So he made his three waves. Fourth wave, he pulled in. It kind of clamped on the top. And I went in to pick him up. And he jumps on the sled.

And this wave is coming. It's all foamy. And the ski's not going, ooh, ooh, ooh, like stuck in mud. And this massive wave is coming. It's all foamy. The ski's not going, ooh, ooh, ooh, like stuck in mud. And this massive wave is coming. And then the selfless guy that he is, he looked. And he was already beat from that first one. He was tired. He pushes the sled as the wave catches us.

And then the ski goes up 10, 15, feet high i'm up there and i'm just like this is done there's no way you can come out of this but i i got my feet in these foot straps i got my hand on hummers and my number one first sponsor ever it was his jet ski by chance he let us use it and i'm about bail, but I just kept holding it. Flew me out in front, landed. I mean, that was the hand of God. If there ever was a hand of God, that was it. So basically what you're saying is he put you by hook or by crook

and in the most unlikely situation, you ended up exactly where you needed to be to get this wave and have this ride of your life. Well, him, he got the wave. He got the ride. So he got the three good waves and made them. So the way it works is you alternate surfing and towing with your partner, right?

So it's a two man gig. And you're getting scored as, you know, how you kind of do collectively as a team. So those three waves each. Right, and then the purse you split. Purses or depends on what you agree on. I won't ask you whatever that was. And ultimately you end up becoming victorious

in this event in an unlikely way. I'm sure people were surprised like this 35 year old guy who had seemingly retired suddenly is back. What did the surfing world make of that at the time? Not much. No? They swept under the rug.

And they kind of made it like Parsons Girl Act One. Liam's brother had kind of a thing, but like we don't need to pay too much attention to that. Well, plus I'm Liam's brother. Yeah. But Parsons got the best wave of the contest. This crazy wave and made it. And they

just really pumped that up in all the surf media. In Brazil it was a big thing. Just Brazil. Me and Rodrigo won. Studio Omega is the sponsor. Global TV, the biggest network. It's going on prime time. So I was huge in Brazil. The rest of the surfing world

still didn't really know much and the sponsors didn't start flying in and i thought to myself okay well now i'm going to tahiti and i'm gonna go get something big there and we went and i got a cover on surfer and then because i won the contest the contest. They knew of the word, oh, but nobody, oh, well, who is this? Then I go to Tahiti, get this freaking incredible wave that graces the cover of all kinds of magazines all over the world. And then

I'm going, okay. So I was watching the boys at Jaws, and I'm just like, what the hell are they doing? Why aren't they in the barrel? And then I went there that first time. I was like, oh, now I know why they're not in the barrel. This wave is, it's Jaws. It's trying to eat you and it's not, nothing to play around with. And now I know why, but I, I understood why,

but I still wanted to go get barreled there. So I went that next winter, 2003, got the barrel. So now I get- You're the first guy to get barreled at Jaws. I don't know about the first guy to get barreled at jaws i don't know about the first barrel but i got a really good one and um so i got the win then i got tahiti then i got the barrel the funny thing about the barrel is they put on the cover it's me but it says laird and company so i get it's like so i could only imagine people going how's that barrel and he's going

it was it was to trip right yeah so then um but the sponsor started coming I got on I was working with Red Bull a little bit since I had the store and they were coming all in and then uh then had a manager came in right then made me a website and then um we got i was with excel the manager screwed that deal um yeah things were i had this manager who wasn't in surf he was a senior vice friend of time warner in marketing and production and he retired and and then took me on as his main project. So I learned everything. I know nothing. I mean, I was a surfer that did not want his face,

did not want his name, did not want anything, don't want to talk about what I just did, just... And he's like, you got to make a poster, Gary McNamara, you got to do this, go to that. Well, there's a convergence of a couple of things happening here. I mean, first of all, culturally within surfing, it's not cool to promote yourself.

It never had been. It was, you know, the punk rock of it all was to just go out and surf waves for the joy of it. If anybody's paying attention, fine, but you're not gonna be the guy out there throwing stuff up on social media, but that's because social media didn't exist and also, you know,

carving out a career outside of the very narrow scope of what it meant to be a pro competitive surfer was starting to change. And with the advent of these new surfing technologies and toe-in surfing and all the experimentation that was kind of being led by Laird and his cohort of surf renegades. Suddenly, and then with social media kind of being layered

on top of that, there was this sense of possibility, like you could craft or carve out a career that lived outside of those traditional notions of how to make a living. But that meant that you had to be not necessarily shameless, but you had to be not necessarily shameless, but you had to be in control of your own kind of promotional engine and responsible for getting the word out about what you were doing because, you know, ultimately you had the responsibility to shoulder like

getting sponsors and all of that, manager or no manager. Yeah, Laird was the OG, the guru, the guy who broke out of the surfing and went to the rest of the world. And showed it was possible. And I really watched and learned and really embraced how he did things. And so when this senior vice president guy is telling me, I'll that the other thing i'm like okay okay okay not what i want to do but that's what they're doing so we'll do it but so

and that's what yeah it was from there the doors just opened they started knocking on my door i didn't have to knock on doors it was it was amazing it was the first time in my life i wasn't hey please sponsor me. Right. But the business plan's working. Business plan's working. Yeah. You're manifesting.

You're generating. It's all happening. You're able to pay the bills. It's all about that goal and that blueprint. It works. But you know what? The number one thing

in all of our sports or careers or whatever is carving out a niche because a niche has longevity. You might not be the best for more than a year or two, but if you have a little niche, you're the yogi of this, or you're the Jack Johnson, or you're the photographer, you're still in the world. You're still in surfing, but vicariously through this niche that you carved out. So you were conscious of that. And how would you define the niche

that you were carving out or attempting to carve out at that time? I was just the guy who would just put it all the line. I mean, my friends would call me bulletproof and I felt bulletproof and I had a little flotation that nobody else had. So I was coming up.

That was your little innovation. They didn't realize, they didn't, what are you doing with that? They're laughing and going, and I'm going, but anyway, please come pound me. No problem, I'm coming up. And so they thought I was kind of crazy. They didn't realize it was calculated crazy.

And at what point, I mean, your first marriage ends up sort of dissolving, right? Around this time. Yep. What was going on there? Lack of support, lack of trust, and rightfully so I wasn't in the best place. Yeah.

And you got that first marriage, I mean, you got married really young. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what's your relationship to like drugs and alcohol and all of that? I mean, you had this crazy childhood where it seemed like it was omnipresent, but did you grow all of that. I mean, you had this crazy childhood where it seemed like it was omnipresent,

but did you grow out of that? Or was that still part of your world at that time? I smoked pot from 12 to 22, stopped in 89, never really liked the taste of alcohol, but loved a good party, loved a couple with corns with lime, tastes good, and with some tequila, and then you're having a great time. I mean, you are Irish. Yeah.

Then you're having a great time. To be honest, cocaine was something that we played with a little bit. When we were really young, my brother and I got into it and then i went to japan when i was 19 and saw that i could have a career and then that's when i put pot put everything and then got my brother too and um i slowly got sucked back into cocaine a bit and it wasn't wasn't pretty to be honest at all it wasn't a party anymore. It was just like dark and- Was that when you were married? Depressed, getting depressed, yeah.

And when you were at the store? Yeah. Yeah. There was things that led up to it. I mean, if I went back, probably some childhood things, but more things that happened in my relationship with my wife that really made me bummed out about our relationship because of things that she did.

So I would probably, that was probably what really, I mean, I can't blame anybody. I take full responsibility. I chose to, you know, I chose it. So it was all me. Was there things that definitely weighed on me or that I let weigh on me? Yeah, now I'm choosing not to let anything weigh on me.

Love it all. Yeah, so it sounds like a lot of the use was kind of situational or environmental. Like when you made these decisions at different times to like walk away from it, you were able to do that. So you never went down some like rampant addiction rabbit hole or anything like that. You were able to kind of put it in the rear view

when you needed to or need to. It's funny because I would, on my birthday, August 10th, I would have one last big party and then I would train and until I accomplished something really huge. And then celebrate. And then I might party again.

And that might go for the rest of the, until it's something really huge. And then celebrate. And then I might party again. That might go for the rest of the, until my birthday again. Is that still going on or? No, no, I've been, since I met Nicole, I've been just. Well, let's talk about Nicole. Like that's the other huge inflection points. So the inflection points that,

like I'm trying to like map it out. Like you have, you know, moving to Hawaii, of course. And then, you know, there's winning jaws, like these kind of pivotal moments in your life. But certainly I don't see any more important or monumental pivotal moment in your life that exceeds meeting Nicole and kind of how the impact that she has had

and this relationship has had on like how you are, not just on your surfing, but like how you are as a man and what you value and what you're choosing to invest your time in, et cetera. So talk a little bit about meeting her and kind of what this relationship has meant to you. Well, it's funny, you know, the cartoon character I was when I saw Laird in them with my jaw on the floor

and when I saw her, it was like the cartoon character that gets levitates and drags across by his toes to her. It was just love at first sight. And it was, yeah, I was just captivated by her beauty, her presence, just being in her, you know, you're fully, she's so present and so inspiring. And so everything that I've dreamed, everything that I dreamed of him in a partner,

a life partner, she was right there in front of me. You guys met in Costa Rica? Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico. At a surface healing, Uncle Lazy Pasquitz. I was supporting his surface healing event in Puerto Rico. And she was there at the charity dinner the night before, helping with the flower arrangements

through her dad's friend who was doing the flower arrangements. She was there for a race. She's a bad-ass paddler. She like, and we met and that was it. It was nothing that could stop it. Eight or something like that.

How long? Nine or 10, 10. 10? 10. So shortly after you guys met that you ended up in Nazare then. I didn't realize that timeline was so compressed. Yeah. Wow.

Wow, she comes into your life and then suddenly you guys are in Portugal. Oh, we went on the most amazing journey ever. We lived out of a suitcase for three years and it was the best time of our life. Our life is still like too good. I'm like pinch me. I can't even believe where we're at right now.

But that was the most, we were just present and together. And I mean, as she says, I held on to her every word. I would say anything and everything she wanted at all time. And the same her for me. And that was before the kids. I think, like I can't help, but like try to compare your story to my story

and I don't wanna make it about me, but you know, I have a similar, I've had a very similar experience in many ways. And there's something about my relationship with my wife, who's very different from me that creates a certain kind of powerful alchemy. And I see that in your relationship, like the sum of the two of you together is much greater

than the sum of its parts, right? Because of this partnership and what you each bring to this equation, you've been able to accomplish things and manifest things that I'm sure exceed what you would have thought possible for yourself. Yeah, literally, since we've joined forces, we literally, strongly, without a doubt, feel that we can pretty much do anything we want,

like anything. There's nothing that we can't do if we put our mind to it. Yeah, and where does that come from? It comes from, well, you know, the secret. And then I've read, I've been into Deepak Chopra, Seven Spiritual Laws of Success. Sure. But it really comes from, she's very organized.

she's very organized. And I think most of all, it's because all of our, the things that we focus on are more selfless and somehow we wanna give back with whatever we're doing. When you have that aspect to it all, you really can't fail. I mean, you know, you get the goal,

you get the plan, you get the roadmap, but you have a selfless approach to it. That's the secret sauce in everything. If you're in a mindset and have a plan to be giving more than you're receiving or looking to receive, for me, that's always been a recipe for manifesting things even larger than what you imagined.

I like that. I have to, yes, I agree with that one. You're the doer and you're the dreamer. Nicole is very much the structure and the feedback loop and the accountability piece. Projector. Projector, of course. There you go, she's smiling over there.

Human design. That's another podcast, but yeah, I get it. She's badass, she does it. Like she has a line of people that want it so bad. Oh, cool. But she very rarely does one. I love it. She's really good.

But I wanna like kind of double click on this and really try to deconstruct this process for people that are listening or watching. You know, everybody has a dream or something they're trying to accomplish or a goal that feels a little bit out of reach. And it's easy to make excuses or to construct reasons why it's not rational or reasonable or possible.

So help me to better understand like the mechanics of your goal setting process, the mantras, the manifestations, like what does that look like in terms of how you're going about your day? Well, the mantra is loving, kind, and helpful. And if we're loving, kind, and helpful all day long, I mean, you're gonna feel great because everybody around you is gonna feel great great and everything's going to unfold as it should. I've been,

you know, I like to get up really early and do my little meditation. And when we're really on point, like in the first, I'd say five years, maybe even longer, we would wake up together every morning. We would do our little meditation. Then we'd write down what we wanna work on personal growth and what we wanna work on career. And then we would actually manifest, meditate. That's a daily thing. Manifest, yeah, together. Specific answer to those respective questions.

Yeah. Right. The outcome, The actual outcome. See yourself where that goal leads you. Live in that reality, feel it, right? To your bones because you can't experience it. If you're not visualizing it, then how is it gonna be possible, right? That's the idea.

And don't be too rigidly attached to the end game. Let it more if it wants to. Let it go this way or that way. Don't be too rigidly attached to the outcome. So this is a daily practice. You do this in the morning, at night? Morning, we were doing the morning, just morning to night at it, sometimes.

When we were really wanting to create what it was, it was morning and night. Morning and night or morning and, so twice a day. We haven't done it since we had the kids. That's eight years now. Right. Another key point I would talk about is choice. Every moment of every day. Every action, every word.

Right. Choice that's either either gonna bring you closer or farther away. That's just a fact. Like every single choice is either closer or farther away. See, I invited Nicole to sit in on this. I'm thinking that's the better podcast right now. I can go get her over here and-

We don't wanna do it. I can watch the baby. No, she is the best. You wanna come in for this part? Yeah, come on in. Bring the baby. As long as the baby is okay. No, that baby's a dream.

She'll just sit there. Can we just set up the extra mic really quick? I knew we needed to have Nicole on, right? I'm so glad you're joining us. Thank you for having me. Thanks. It's an honor, truly. So I think this is like, this is the juice.

This is the best part of the podcast. I wanna get deep on the mindset techniques and the manifesting and the dream weaving, all the mystical energy that gets injected into, you know, what's required to like chase an audacious goal, especially when it feels like the world is lined up against you. It's true.

It's a good stuff, magic. And it is a little bit of magic. I think you have to have that belief that, and you have to believe that anything is possible. And today's world, it's almost like they don't want us to accomplish our dreams. They fill our days with distractions and also maybe a disbelief

in that you have to be a certain way to be successful. And that's just not true. And that's the beauty about human design, which we've mentioned a couple of times, is that human design is all about deconditioning yourself back to your authentic being so that you can really, your energetic aura can be inviting the universe to send you

what you are really meant to have. And you can be fully expressed in what you're naturally inclined to do. Right. Yeah. You don't have to wake up at 5 a.m. if that's not what you're meant to do to be successful. You can still be successful without being exhausted. Wait, what?

You don't wake up at 5 a.m.? Well, you're a generator. You're meant to, so go for it. It's always like, here's the morning routine. Here's what you need to be successful. Well, like first, understand thyself. Like how are you wired? Not everybody is wired the same.

Exactly, it's super important. My family is all generators, except our youngest is a, can't remember whether he's a projector or a reflector, but in either case, it's a totally different energy. Totally different. This is somebody who needs a lot of alone time, can go out in the world, but then has to go decompress.

Decompress, it's really important. And has to be invited into things as opposed to going out and chasing things. And it's just a different wiring. And like understanding that allows us as parents to figure out a better means to support that type of energetic system. It really changes the parenting game.

Yeah, absolutely. And another thing is also, I think it's super important who you surround yourself with when you have these dreams and these goals. You know, your team and your team is everyone you surround yourself with. It's not just your team. It's, you know, your friends. It's your family.

It's anyone you choose to surround yourself with. You know, they're part of your journey. And you have to be with people who really believe in you. And when you have these goals with these roadmap or what do we call it? A roadmap or a blueprint. It's really important to understand that every second of every day that you spend not on what's on that map will take you further away from your goal. Right.

It's knowing that every word we speak is a choice. Everything we consume on our phones, on the TV, on our computers, on our body, our food is bringing us closer or farther away. There is nothing static, everything is in flux. So every decision that you make, every interaction that you have, every thought that you entertain, every word that comes out of your mouth

is moving you towards the thing that you aspire to achieve or be or away from it. And when you can root yourself in the moment and really appreciate that, it really helps drive a better decision tree and helps you to say no to the things that aren't serving you, et cetera. But you have to overcome

all your kind of default programming. For sure, there's a lot of work to be done. You know, like all this other noise that gets in the way, right? And we like to say that we are by no means the best at that, but we're always working on it. And we're always working to better ourselves and our lives and our team and the world. But going back to real tools that you can do, it's, you know, so here you are wanting every choice you make throughout the day to be bringing you closer to these goals you have. So what really helps is, you know, you're making this blueprint of here's my goal. This is what I

need to do. And as Garrett said, you know, he put it everywhere. So if you walk into our bathroom on the mirror, expo marker, you know, you have your mantras written, you have your goal written, you get in your car, have a little sticky note, like a great way to do it is take your blueprint, take a picture of it and make it your home screen. Put it on your home screen on your phone, which you look at a million times a day. Exactly. So the more you see it, the more you're feeling it.

And plus the easier it'll be to make the decisions that are getting you closer. So Garrett, I know that you've said that you're not an adrenaline junkie, but clearly you have a certain kind of unique relationship with risk and adventure. And I know Nicole has said that like the riskiest thing you've ever done is get involved with this guy Garrett.

Right? Your relationship with risk is different. Maybe on a relationship level like you have a high risk uh you know sort of tolerance because you well you got involved with him so you know you're going on some crazy adventure you know you didn't you didn't meet her father well i saw it well i saw him like that guy looks like a character he is a character that's the only way to describe him as character but i, you had the most beautiful description of our relationship that I've ever heard is that, you know, the alchemy of it. And, you know, I always say, you know, that we were brought together for a reason.

Like, it's really clear that we're together because we can do great, you know, help the world a little bit. And when we started the documentary, you know, I told them, I was like, look, we'll do this, but there is no way that I'm making a surf movie. Like if you guys have any desire to make a surf movie, we're out of here. The only way I'm doing this and us putting our time in it is if it's inspiring. Like I want people to walk away knowing that it truly is. It's like never too early and never too late to follow your dreams. And on top of that, when people say

you can't do it, like the doctor said, you're probably never going to surf again. Your arm's never going to work again. Like that's a big thing to mentally overcome. And, you know, people are going to face adversity every day of people who don't think they can do it because people don't want them to do it because then that means they're gonna have to go do it. Right. You know, it's like this comfort. It puts you right in your face.

Like if this, so when you surfed the 78 footer, that was 2011, right? We're the same age. I think we're the same age. So that makes you 44 at the time? 43. 43, okay. Right, so I love that. Like that same year is kind of when I was hitting my peak

as an athlete and doing things I didn't think was possible. And that's a story that's inspiring to other people, but what people don't get or realize or appreciate is in the lead up to that, when you're doing the reps and the work to get to that point, not a lot of support. Like a lot of people are, because it's challenged, like, oh, if you're doing that,

that that means that maybe I should be deconstructing how I'm living. And that's scary for a lot of people for understandable reasons, right? So you can't expect that kind of support, which means your nucleus, like the people that you surround yourself with are super important.

And this bond that you guys have is really the key to everything. It is like the nuclear power generator for all of what has transpired. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. And so I am interested in like, when did the documentary,

like when did these guys approach you? I mean, Chris Smith is not gonna make a surf documentary. Like he's a super experienced, he's gonna tell really interesting nuance. Tiger King. Yeah, tails, like, yeah, it's like, this guy knows what he's doing. He's not like a surf documentarian.

He wants to tell a story. She doesn't like to take credit for us going to Nazare because she answered the email and got us there, even though we wouldn't have went if she didn't get on the email chain. But this documentary 100% would never have happened without her. And because she's a projector, she's very organized. And she wrote

a little treatment that was just super inspiring. Everything's possible. Well, it was really going to focus on Garrett, Cotty, and CJ because CJ broke his back. Cotty broke his back. CJ is your brother. Yes. And Garrett's shoulder injury. So it was really about how the human spirit is limitless and we're all limitless. An inspirational one-hour documentary. One and a half.

Yeah, I was going to do it. We were going to do it ourselves, you know, like guerrilla. And my cousin is married to Joe Lewis, the producer. So I had called just for advice. And he's like, oh, this is really good. And, you know, called just for advice and he's like, oh, this is really good. And it just worked out that he's like, oh, I'll do it if you want. So I knew in that agreement that I was pretty much giving away all creative direction. So he came on board as the producer and the first thing he did was get Chris Smith. But it's really funny when talking to Chris,

if you ask Chris, he'll be like, yeah. When Joe said surfing, I was like, no way. I have no interest. But I'll talk to Garrett. For Joe. Yeah. So we had this Zoom call. And Chris says, the only reason I did it

is because Garrett's just so interesting. Joe did it because he said, this is going to win an Oscar. But the one and a half hour version. Yeah, so what was the decision to make it a series as opposed to a standalone documentary? Well, I guess they somehow got missed that we had archival footage from a long, long time ago. So we sent them just literally a suitcase

full of hard drives. And when they saw how much they had, they were like, this has to be a docuseries. And Nicole was crushed. She was like, my Oscar. But Jill's like, don't worry, we'll get an Emmy. I'm like, all right. Won the Emmy, come on.

And now we have season two. So you must have already been shooting that. Yes. Is it already wrapped? It's really hard. Yes. It's hard to believe, but season two is better than season one. When is that going to premiere?

Probably January. Oh, in January. That's coming up quick. Wow. So, I mean, congrats. That's coming up quick. Wow. So, I mean, congrats. That's unbelievable. Nicole, when you, I'm sure you've gotten asked this before,

but when Chris is like, Garrett is so interesting. Like what is that quality in Garrett that makes him different or capable of surfing these big waves? Like, how do you think about that? Like what is his secret sauce in that recipe of uniqueness? Well, it's interesting.

And I'm gonna take it back to human design again. You know what's funny, that interesting word, I use that instead of saying something negative. Is that a pejorative? Instead of saying, well, so interesting. Instead of saying something negative, a lot. For you, for people that are just listening and not watching on YouTube, like he's making googly eyes.

Right, right, right. I mean, you're very animated and like you're your own character, you know, like you're a cartoon character of yourself. In the best way. Yeah, right. And I'm not saying that pejoratively, like in a very, you know, endearing way. So.

And there's an earnestness to you, you know. Yeah, he's charismatic. But it's not performative charisma. It's who he really is, exactly. And that's why I take it back to human design. So generators are meant to have these just super open auras that just attract everything to them because they're just so glowing and fun and light and genuine.

And what happens is we become conditioned our whole life to shut that down. And as much as I will say that Garrett's childhood was completely disturbing, he didn't really get conditioned, you know, his authentic, like open aura. A beginner's mind and a childlike. Yes, an innocence. Yeah, yeah. There's an innocence to him that makes him just, you know, he's a lover. Like he has just a super loving heart at the end of the day.

He's really a gentle, gentle person. How does that translate into the parenting stuff? Oh, let's not even go there. That's a whole other podcast. Well, it's funny when he tries to parent, I'm like, where are you? Like, do you have scientists? Well, you have no-

Right, exactly. That's what I say. There's been no example in your life for healthy parenting. So how do you know that this is working? Have you read a book? If you've read a book and you have some research to back it up. There's something to be said for that in this day and age. And I'm sure there's a lot of that in your kids' experience. I'm very lucky that they're very open to letting the kids experience things.

Yeah, are you capable of disciplining your kids? I mean, definitely not physically, but actually I would probably grab their ear and pull them. Can you set a boundary? Can you hear me? Do you know how to set a boundary like with your kids? At times, I mean, it depends on what the- Because you don't have, you never had one.

No, yeah, it's like, he goes, I don't know. He always says when he has the kids, he's like, I don't know, it was so easy. I'm like, yeah, cause you let them do whatever they wanted to do and gave them whatever they wanted. But you as a professional athlete, who's done things nobody else has done,

there is a certain, you have a capacity for discipline and rigor in your life. Like you weren't taught that, that wasn't part of your rearing, right? But you've learned that for yourself and you've kind of shouldered the responsibility of creating that structure so that you could accomplish these goals. And I'm sure Nicole is helpful in that regard,

but like, it's like an unlikely story that you would become somebody who could, you know. Parent some children? Well, parent yourself. Like you had to parent yourself, right? So you had to learn these things outside of the household, but I'm interested in like, you know, the discipline, the rigor, the accountability piece, all of that,

you know, as a professional athlete, like how did you figure that out? I don't know, I was always into eating healthy, whether I did it all the time or not, I was aware from young. Yeah, cause we'd been vegetarians and we grew so many different vegetables and fruit trees. They used to call me Luther Burbank,

a world-renowned botanist you might have heard. But just because maybe from lack, wanting to achieve, figuring out how to actually achieve, how to succeed, and then just, I don't know how I actually, that was a business plan for dummies was definitely the catalyst for the ends for where I am now and after 35.

Right, but in the context of being an athlete, being a high performance athlete, like what is the training look like? Like how do you prepare mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually to drop in on a wave of that gravitas? I love training and I love working out with a group of people, but I also like working out with the,

just by myself with a trainer. And back in the day I would, I had my gym, so I would do my weights and I would ride my bike up Pupakea Hill and then I would go to the track at Sunset Beach and run this quarter mile track where there was benches every on one leg of it. And I would do hold my breath exercises there. And that was enough.

I credit my, all the experience I've had under water were enjoyable because I did my hold my breath exercises. Today there's so much more, there's so many different, there's so much breath work, you're an ice man, we got Wim Hof, we got just all these free divers. I mean, there's so many different tools now that we can access through social media, through friends.

The breath work thing was really interesting. You brought in a free diver to teach you guys, you know, how to do static breath holds. And Nicole, you got to like three and a half minutes or something like that, like doing that. But like, that was so cool that you're like, let's, we need to learn this. If we're gonna be on these waves,

like this is gonna be a key thing to understand. And then the, there's so many good trainers. I was just in Austin, Texas training with all these trainers I love it I have a personal trainer in Hawaii Sherry Gunaway who's a godsend she is just so hands-on

and she actually does the body work which is the best in the world that I've ever experienced and I've had it all treatments all over the world and she's also like a psychic and I mean it's just yeah

and you know I've trained with Kyborg It's all over the world. And she's also like a psychic. And I mean, it's just, yeah. And I've trained with Kyborg, a functional fitness gym, and then Daniel Bachman up at Sunset. And in Portugal, there's a gym right in Nazare, there's two or three gyms in Nazare. But that's more, I work, do that on my own. I like working with the crew. I like working with somebody or a few people.

And talk to me about the yoga piece. So this forest yoga is like a big deal for you guys. No, no, no, no. If you ever wanna do yoga, forest yoga is by far the best we've ever experienced. And we've- Well, I love it because it's really, yoga nowadays-

What does it actually mean? Right. And today it's just, I don't think it is what it is today is not what it's meant to be and that's why i really love forest yoga is because it kind of takes it back to what it should be um well i shouldn't even say should but what it you know what it is and i love the ceremony part aspect of it too, which they didn't show much of that in the series, but you know, every, every class starts out with a ceremony, like this deep ceremony of gratitude and, and the land that our ancestors and,

and the land, our ancestors. And then it's also about really how you were saying, the guy you had on your podcast last week, it's, you know, we hold our trauma in our body and it's using the postures to move that trauma out of the body. And that's why I thought it would be really great for Garrett, you know, not only from his childhood traumas, but also his physical traumas and the scar tissue

and for all three of them. And yeah, it's great. Yoga, I hate saying yoga, but yeah. It's super important for your mental and physical. Right. Yeah. And your spiritual growth. Of course, so forest yoga, it's not forest like trees,

it's anaphora. What was the name of the book that she wrote? Fierce Medicine. Yeah, good job. She's just. She's fierce. So powerful. She's a wizard.

Yeah. And beyond that, like, so, all right, so you have the weights and you have the breath holds and you have the breathing techniques, the cold baths, like all that kind of stuff. What else is part of, like, I feel like because big wave surfing is still pretty new, right? Like figuring out like,

how do you prepare for something like this? Like what is the best methodology to get you right? Like you have to be physically sound and strong of course, and there's techniques for accomplishing that, but like how do you mentally and emotionally get your head in the right place to tackle, you know, that kind of fear inducing, you know? For me it's being physically prepared,

strength and stamina, breath. Then I'm mentally, I haven't been back to where I was before I got hurt physically. So I'm still stuck, challenged with the mental a little bit. Always wondering if I'm actually going to enjoy it still. Because I always enjoyed it. It didn't matter what was going on. And now I'm kind of, eh. And you get back.

Yeah. I enjoyed it. It didn't matter what was going on. And now I'm kind of, eh. And I- And you get back. Yeah, and the breath work is so important. Leading up, you know, for two weeks minimum, a month or two better.

And then on your way out and while engaging breath work, like on your way out, you breathe up. So you're hyper-oxygenated. Then you're sitting there waiting for a while. Okay, keep doing your breathing. You're getting ready to take that way, make sure you were oxygenated beyond. And so when you actually, if you don't make the wave,

the beat down will be enjoyable. If you're not ready, it'll be super stressful and you could end up passing out but then your body has to be able to hold together the breath work I think is the most important

no spoiler alerts but season two you know CJ has this situation where he says like if it wasn't for all my breath work he probably

wouldn't be here we would have passed out we would have found him okay but yeah it's I think because along with the breath work, he probably wouldn't be here. We would have passed out. We would have found him. Okay. But yeah, it's, I think, because along with the breath work, depending which kind you practice, you know, a lot of the breath work practices these days

also, you know, touch on the spiritual and the emotional part. And, you know, you can go to places through breath work that, you know, you can reach some traumas and heal. You can heal through breath work. You can reach some traumas and heal. You can heal through breath work. You can have a medicine experience from the, what is it?

The holotropic. Oh my God, I've gone places like, whoa. Like who needs medicine right here, breath. My wife takes groups of people through those experiences and then we all get together and share. And it's crazy what happens to people. They have insane emotional breakthroughs. They go to different places and are like-

And it's just the breath. Inhabiting the bodies of animals and like all kinds, it's like wilder than any kind of psychedelic experiences. It's very, very powerful. And I think we're just at the beginning of truly learning and understanding the power of breath and how to harness it for all manner of things beyond just respiration.

It's super interesting. In the kind of context of your story, I mean, it's super inspiring to see somebody blossom and really find their power like later in life. You know, I feel like so many people feel like the story of their life is written at 25. This is who I am.

This is my career. This is where I live. These are my people. And this is just gonna be my thing, right? And, you know, I've experienced a later in life kind of transition or, you know, kind of different kind of trajectory for my life. And I see kinship in what you've done in a different way, doing it later in life.

And so I think it would be instructive to share a little bit about what that has been like. Like you could have stayed running that store. You could have stayed doing what you were always doing and kind of succumbing to the pressures of just, this is what life is supposed to be like as an adult. And, you know, it takes a lot of courage to break free of that and to take a risk and try something different,

especially when you're in your late thirties or forties and you, you know, kind of doing what you're doing now into your fifties, like with no end in sight, I think it helps really, it helps people raise the ceiling on their perception of what's possible for themselves. Definitely. What was it?

What was it? Yeah, what made you at 35 decide this, I know this isn't what I want for my life, And how did you at 35 decide this, you know, I know this isn't what I want for my life. So I'm going to go for it instead of, because most people would just, I know I don't like this, but this is what I'm supposed to do.

I just wanted to keep surfing. Yeah. But I think what it is, Nicole, it goes to something you said earlier, which is because Garrett had this unique childhood experience where he wasn't conditioned in the way most of us were, he's been able to maintain a connection with his childlike sensibilities and what gives and gave him joy, right?

Like you've talked about, like if you're struggling to figure out what that is, like go back to when you were three years old, right? But we have so much conditioning and programming to prevent us from looking in the rear view in that way and connecting deeply emotionally with those very pure kind of primal impulses that we had as young people, right?

But I feel like you've, what's unique about you is like that connective tissue was never ruptured. I feel like in this world we're um conditioned to settle and to just do what we're supposed to do and somehow through my uh childhood and in all of my life i was not doing what you're supposed to besides that one point in time when I had the store and it just didn't feel right. And I mean, just like in my marriage, I didn't want it, you know, I settled.

And at the end of the day, I moved on and I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't. And I really work on not having any regrets, whether you felt it was a bad decision or not, I work on not having any regrets. And through that journey, I've released any regrets that I may have had or any, whoo, yeah, I don't know.

So for somebody who's maybe grappling with their own discontentment, what is the recommendation or the advice that you could give to that person to help them kind of connect with something deeper that might help them reckon with it? That's easy. Figure out what you love doing. Figure out what you're passionate about.

That's hard. How do you do that? Okay, I would start with probably- Well, that's what I said, go back to when you love doing. Figure out what you're passionate about. That's hard. How do you do that? Okay. I would start with probably. Well, that's what I said. Go back to when you were three. Yeah. Or I think the medicine, the beauty way, the medicine wheel really helped you, the book.

I mean, the book is great because it, they have simple. This is Anna Forster. No, no. This is the medicine wheel. I don't know this book. It's amazing. Yeah, but it's great because it's really simplified it so that people can do the exercises in their living room if they want.

They don't have to go into the forest for four days with no food and water. I mean, they could. It's helpful. But the book has set it up to really kind of look at the things that are causing the pain and holding you back and how to work through it. Right. Well, figure out what you think you like doing or better to love doing it and then figure out how to make that your life. What the goal? Okay, I love doing this.

How do I make that a career? And then you make the roadmap. You make the blueprint and you follow it and you'll be doing it. And as I said, don't stay rigidly attached. If it morphs to another direction, go check that out. If you achieve it and you're really here and you're like, oh, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be, then go at it again.

Yeah, I think that idea of holding it loosely is important because if you are too rigid, then you're short circuiting your ability to be available for the miracle. Yeah. Because the miracle doesn't show up in a prepackaged way on time as predicted. It doesn't work that way, right?

It's a meandering path and you kind of have to have that North Star that's driving you, but also be kind of available and open to the turns in the road along the way. Because sometimes when those are the messages that actually like lead you towards the greater opportunity that didn't even occur to you. Yeah.

Yeah. The one path leads to a totally new path you never thought even existed. She's getting antsy. Don't worry, we're gonna wrap it up here. I mean, maybe that- I do think, I know you asked him about fear. I do think he missed some key.

Yeah, what was that? There is fear is something that we choose, something we manufacture in our mind. And it's when we're thinking about the past or thinking about the future. And those two things do not exist. So if we fully embrace the moment and just think about where we are in that moment

and do our best in that moment, fear does not exist. It can't live in the present moment. It doesn't. Yeah, that's powerful. We had a great guy, Kent. Fear does not exist. It can't live in the present moment. It doesn't. Yeah, that's powerful. We had a great guy, Kent, he taught us PCP, just be PCP. And that's what he does out in the water.

What does that mean? Present. Present. Connected. And so when you're fully present, then you're connected to source, to spirit, and then you're gonna be protected. So present, connected, protected. Yeah. PCP, baby.

So it's really being present. Not what you're thinking. Different kind of, yeah. The other PCP, maybe not so present or connected, definitely not protected, no. All right, well, what are on all the sticky notes now? Like what's on the screensaver on the iPhone? Like what is the dream, the goal?

Do I have a picture of it here? I don't know. It's on the fridge, the latest one. It is, somewhere, but. It's been morphing lately. Be conscious parents. Conscious parenting, definitely at the top. There's a few projects in the pipeline

you don't you you might remember some of it that's important what what are the goals right now that love your wife there you go you need a sticky note for that come on i just tell him i'm like if you just love me then then I'll do everything else. Everything. Because I'll be so watered and blossoming that I'll just wanna do everything, so. Yeah, cool, all right, cool. And you guys-

She agrees. Are you, so you split your time between Hawaii and Nazarene now, right? Like you have a home there and you live in Portugal half the year. Yeah. Yeah, we love Portugal. We love Hawaii.

We love LA. We have really good quality friends here. And we're really, you know, like you're saying, it's all about who you surround yourself with. And the funny one is, do you wanna hang out on the ground and with the chickens and eat worms or you wanna soar with the eagles?

So we've been really focusing on quality friends. And another one, for lack of a better word, expanders, people that you look up to or aspire to be like or really inspire you. And they don't have to be wealthy or anything, just inspirational people that have goodness, nothing about wealth. Yeah, that's good advice. Health is wealth, number one is health above all.

There you go, buddy. Cool, well, I feel like we just touched the surface on what I could talk to you guys about, but I think we can wrap it up for today. That was amazing. Thank you. Thank you. I'm really inspired by the journey that the two of you guys are on.

And I can't wait to see season two, man. It's exciting. You guys are Emmy award winners now. It's crazy. You got season two coming up in January and I wanna see all your goals manifest my friend. So consider me a resource if there's anything I can do to help either of you.

Thank you. And you, us as well for you, whenever you come to Hawaii or Portugal, let us know. Cool. So obviously everybody should check out 100 Foot Wave on HBO, HBO Max. Where else should people go to learn more about you guys? Your Instagram?

McNamara underscore S. And that's for our family. And then we've got, and yours is like mama. Yeah, mama unearthed. That's good. She's the philosopher. She is. No stone unturned.

Right. Well, now unearthing your essence. Yeah. Unearthing your essence. Yeah. Unething your essence. No one earthing your essence. Yeah. On earth, your essence. All of us are like you completely deconditioned. On earth, our real selves. 100%.

Listen to her. All right. Right? Cool. Come back and share with me again sometime. Peace. That's it for today. Thank you for listening.

I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, finding ultra, voicing change in the plant power way, as well as the plant power meal planner

at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and or comment. Supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated.

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graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Solis, Dan Drake, and AJ Akpodiette. Thank you, Georgia Whaley, for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Math management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants.

Namaste. Thank you.