The Rich Roll Podcast - Building a Legacy on Athleticism, Faith & Humility (Part 2)

Episode Date: May 8, 2014

Today were back with Ultraman competitor and EPIC5 finisher Christian Isakson for Part 2 of our conversation. Thanks for all the great comments and feedback I received on social media this week in response to Part 1. If you haven’t listened to that one yet dial it up first before tuning in here Part 2 just gets better. We delve into Christian's racing. He walks us through his first-hand experience completing EPIC5 and what it took to put his imprimatur on last year's Ultraman World Championships. Then we turn to service. Christian's commitment to giving back through his involvement with Chris Lieto's non-profit More Than Sport and and his recent work in Kenya with Ameena Project. And how faith, family and humility are keystones to remain grounded, focused and on point. The message is this — if you want your life to have true meaning, satisfaction, fulfillment and a legacy of value, giving back in a meaningful way is essential. If you are feeling adrift, Christian's message will help right your ship. If he has inspired you to seek out a more fulfilling path for yourself but you're just not sure how to embark on your own version of his story, then — as mentioned in the introduction to this episode — you might be encouraged by my new online course on MindBodyGreen.com entitled The Art of Living With Purpose- 2+ hours of streaming video content with an array of downloadable tools I learned, honed and devised to course correct my life — tools I continue to rely on to this day to keep my life focused and on track. Give it a look if it feels right to you. I hope you enjoy Part 2 as much as Part 1. As always, let me know what you think in the comments section below and on social media. Peace + Plants, Rich

Welcome to the Rich Roll Podcast, Episode 84, Part 2 of my conversation with Ultraman triathlete Christian Isaacson. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to the show, to the RRP, to the Rich Roll Podcast. Not surprisingly, my name is Rich Roll and I'm the host, where each week I bring to you the best, most forward-thinking, paradigm-busting minds in health, fitness, athleticism, spirituality, creativity, diet, art, nutrition, and even entrepreneurship. Why do I do this?

I do this so that you are empowered with the tools, the knowledge, the inspiration, and the motivation to take your life to the next level, to blow through the barriers we impose on ourselves, because we tend to be the ones putting those barriers on ourselves more than other people. We're our own worst enemy at times. And I want you guys to achieve your maximum potential, not just physically, but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually as well. The goal is to motivate and inspire you to take your life to the next level, to help you discover, unlock, and unleash your best, most authentic self. It's about life transformation.

It's about sustainable, positive change. That's the name of the game. And, you know, I was able to change my life in dramatic ways, like who I am, what I do, what I seek, and what I now find important in my life really bears little resemblance to what it looked like not so many years ago. And I just want everybody to experience this, to have this opportunity. And the truth is that it's always within our grasp. Even if that elevator is going down, you don't have to take it all the way down.

You can get off at any floor. And my hope is that by bringing these conversations to you, you're empowered, that you have the tools, you have the inspiration and the motivation to make that change now and not wait until you hit bottom. Okay, how's that sound? All right, well, that brings me to today. I'm in Beirut. I'm in Beirut, Lebanon. Like, can you believe that? I can't.

How did that happen? What am I doing here? I have a speaking engagement here. I just spent an incredible week in Canada. Julie and I traveled all over Ontario. We were in Burlington, Toronto, and London for a couple of events. And I'm really inspired by that experience. I found the people there to be quite amazing. And there's so much interest and enthusiasm about wellness there. It was really encouraging to me. And I just left super energized to return to the Middle East. I'm back in the Middle East for the third time this year, which just blows my mind. I'm amazed to have this opportunity. It's really incredible because if you had told me a couple of years ago that I would be paid to travel the world,

to go to these crazy exotic locations that I probably would never visit in my entire life, to talk about the things that I care about the most, the things that I'm most passionate about, I would have said you were insane. So the point is don't limit yourself. Now on the subject of limits, I think I just exceeded the limits of my podcast soundboard. I just got back from an incredible run along the waterfront here in Beirut. It's a beautiful day. And it was, it was really a stellar experience, but got back, set up all my podcast equipment, experience, but got back, set up all my podcast equipment, got out my fancy microphone, connected all the cords and, uh, plugged in my soundboard. You know, when you travel internationally, you need one of those power converters, which I have. I plugged my soundboard into it, into the

wall and the thing just like exploded. There's like smoke coming out of it and a bad smell. exploded. There's like smoke coming out of it and a bad smell. And yeah, so it went dark on me and I had a little bit of a panic attack. I'm like, oh my God, I got to get part two of Christian's interview up. How am I going to do this from this remote location? I just destroyed my equipment. I probably should have brought with me a surge protector. That would have been smart, but I wasn't so smart. I didn't do that. So what am I doing? How am I doing this? Well, basically I'm just speaking into my little digital audio recorder without the help of a fancy microphone. So if the audio sounds a little bit, not as good as it usually does, that's why. But it was a difference between not getting a podcast

up today and getting it up any way I can. And the message is what's important. So this is what I'm doing. So hopefully you can overlook the little tweaks in the audio. The interview is great though. Also speaking of limits, how to exceed our limits, how to surpass our limits. Check out my new course on MindBodyGreen. It's called The Art of Living with Purpose. How to set and Achieve Goals, Transform Your Life, and Become Your Best, Most Authentic Self. From the path that I've walked the last few years and all these incredible experiences that I've had doing the podcast and all these amazing people that I've met, I happen to

have learned a couple things, picked up some stuff. I've implemented a few ideas, tools, and strategies on the subject of how to embrace a new and more fulfilling, or should I say personally meaningful approach to life, how to uncover and embrace your latent passion and the fundamentals, the rudimentary aspects of how to properly set and achieve a goal, how to transform your life to again, tell the theme of the podcast so that you can become your best, most authentic self. And what I did is I took all this stuff that I've learned and I distilled it down and I put it in this online course, which is a little over two hours of streaming video content divided up into shorter videos,

things we call modules or six modules and 14 sessions. There's an array of downloadable tools and resources that address everything from the fundamentals of transformation, you know, like I said, how to properly set a goal, how to erect a roadmap, how to create structures, how to create momentum, engage community, and rely on accountability to make these changes. And also why people traditionally fail or fall short in their goals. I mean, we all know, we've all done it. We all know people that have done it. You set a goal, you begin the process of working towards that. And somewhere along the line, you get discouraged or you abandon it, or you give up hope. Why does that happen? And what do we need to do to avoid that

in the future? So essentially the foundational principles and practices behind every successful sustained life transformation, I took a look at all of this and I put it all in this course. And I'm really pumped about it. I worked really hard on it. And I really do think it's a valuable toolbox that contains the assets that are required for you to make the changes in your life necessary to become the person you always wanted to and deserve to be. So if you are feeling stuck and you're not sure how to take that first step or how to best approach the process of beginning to change what your life looks like, this would be a great place to start.

So anyway, you can check that out. It's at MindBodyGreen. It's on the homepage. It's easy to find. Enough of that. All right. So today we're back with Christian Isaacson for part two of our conversation and already gotten tons of great feedback from part one. So if you haven't listened to that one yet, I would suggest you dial that up first before listening to this one. And I can say that part two just gets better. In part one, we got through a lot of Christian's background and his life stuff. And now we turn attention more into his racing and his training. We talk about Epic Five. We talk about his amazing performance at Ultraman this past year. And we get into his service work,

his activities with nonprofits like Chris Lieto's More Than Sport, and also, and more recently, the Amina Project, which is an NGO that took Christian to Kenya, where he provided much needed medical assistance to underprivileged people in desperate need, and how these sort of activities play into his success, happiness, and fulfillment equation. So I said it before, I'll say it again. It's an honor to know this guy. Christian is a solid dude. It's been a pleasure to be able to sit down with him and pick his brain for such a long period of time. And I'm pleased to be his friend and to have him in his life makes me a better man. Proud to share this conversation with you today. So let's drop in and check it out.

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I think in part what you're trying to convey is this idea of being completely present in the activity that you find. It's a way of really eradicating the thinking brain because of all of these sorts of crazy pain and all these other things that you're doing that you really have to be just completely with yourself in the present moment just to get through to the next breath. And there's something kind of like we were talking about before, like very pure about that. Um, there's like an asceticism to that, you know what I mean? Yeah. There's a seeking, uh, aspect to that. And there's a, um, kind of an unspoken, uh, how would you put it? Um, not peace, but there is dude, for me, there is a certain, like for me, it, when people say

spiritual or it's, it's, it's an enlightening aspect of it. It's like chariots of fire for me. Like I feel, I feel God's joy when I'm at that point. I really do. I really feel like when I'm out there racing so many more times, I lean on the fact that I'm like, man, this is what I've been designed to do. Like, this is, this is a part of me that nobody else has been wired to quite like I have. Um, so there's this idea that when you're doing this, that you're on the path that you're meant to be like Liddell and chariots of fire. That's his name. Um, when he's like, this is, I feel your joy. Um, where kind of like, I'd rather be, I'd rather be, I'd rather not be in church thinking about running than being running and focusing on, I mean, that's, there's a, there's

a, there's a kind of a stretch of a, of a connection there, but there, there were so many times when I raced the Epic five, even more so than Ultraman where I was like, man, thank you God for this. This is, this is freaking so cool, dude. Like I, I literally had conversations out there like, this is awesome that I get a chance to do this. And I remember saying that to Ian Adamson, I was like, dude, we get to do this today. We get to do this. Um, my buddies over there, when they came over, they were like, dude, you are in a very colorful sort of language that I won't repeat cause it's a family show, but they're like, dude, you're insane. I remember I was riding on the bike and I was just, I was

just peeing, just pissing and Lennox drove up next to me and he's like, I'm peeing right now too. And, um, was there a remote, was there ever a moment where you were like ready to pull the pin and Lennox drove up next to me and he's like, I'm peeing right now too. Was there ever a moment where you were like ready to pull the pin and be like, I'm done, I'm cooked, I can't keep going? Yeah, I think on Molokai with the hills and the wind, I was getting blown around like a, like a paper doll. I'm like, I can't do this. Like, it was literally like you get to that point. You're like, I'm going to fail this. Not, not like, not like a failure at Ultraman, which was the closest I've ever come to quitting. But this was just more like you step back and like common sense takes over and they're like, okay, let me get this straight. You pay all this money to come over here. You're away from

your family. You're, you, you, you're, you, it's like you're pissing gasoline when you pee because your urethra is all jacked up. Like, like the core, like the core guttural parts of the body are speaking like the saddle sores and the need for sleep and the aggravation and the winnowing away of who you think you are to who you really are. And that day three for me, it might have been day four had my buddies not been there. But day three for me was dark. Right. And were you running the marathon late into the night that night? Yeah.

Along that long stretch of straight highway. Yeah. That's what, that's when I was with Ian and listening to Ian talk to me about, um, some of the struggles he did with the eco challenge. He's on TV now that he's won all the eco challenges. Um, he had some really interesting insight to stripping away who you think you are to who you become in a race and then running with who you've become, not who you think you are to who you become in a race and then running with who you've become, not who you think you are. Oh, that's interesting. So elaborate on that a little. Well, I actually told him we were talking about that and I actually, that kind of came to me. I'm like, I've realized that to compete in this, cause earlier in the day on the bike, I was, um, dysfunctional. I come to the conclusion, um, on the end of the bike,

like I can't race who I think I am. I have to race who I've become. Um, kind of like use the weapon that you have. And then Ian's like a lot of people spend years trying to figure that out. And I said, well, it doesn't mean I figured it out, but I know that I've thought about that moment many times after that and have struggled to understand why I can't keep implementing it. Like, why is it that we remember so many things that we think we should do the next time we race only to forget them the second you get pushed up against the wall? But I did that a lot in Ultraman, too. And that's the lesson I learned in Epic five on days four and five. I just got to race who I've become, not who I started out to be. Cause dude, you're changed every day. Every day I woke up that morning thinking I had just broken up in it from a relationship from the day before. Um, and then you got to kind of go through the baggage

and go through the weeding out. And, um, I don't know if that makes sense, but that's kind of go through the baggage and go through the weeding out and um i don't know if that makes sense but that's kind of the best way i can like summarize um that yeah i like that i mean did you ever have those moments particularly you know when you're doing the the latter miles of the marathons where you know wheels are falling off in the middle of the night you're just like i got to make it to the next lamppost you you know, we're going to break it down into literally like, you know, a hundred yard. Day five was that was for me for that, that the day five and that was day four, it started. Um, but I ran with Morgan Christian for a little bit and I was yelling, I'm like, dude, we were coming down the stretch. I'm like, just tell me, man, when the next, like he was talking

to me and, um, and I was just like, just make it to the next light. Just make it to the next light. Cause you hear that and you read that in books and triathlete magazine, they get these little, like, just find a lamppost and run to it. And you're like, that's retarded when you're out there. That's what I was doing. Um, and what was that like when you finally finished that fifth marathon? I mean, what was the sort of scenario around the finish line that night down at the pier? It was cool that day for me because I came in first. Not because— See, that's weird even here because when Jason and I—there was nothing.

We're just doing it. We're not, like, racing. You had five guys, and you had—you know, there's a little bit of ego getting mixed up with like, who's going to do this the fastest and all that kind of stuff that was not part of the equation. There was some overriding things about that. And I really fought that, um, not because I wanted to race, but you're fighting against yourself. But the last day I thought I was coming in first, not because I would beat everybody else, but I remember I was going through all of my, um, experiences with each athlete on the course that day. And I'm like, ah, man, they're not here.

Like I really wanted, I just wanted us all to be there and kiss the ground together. And when you got to, when you got there, was there anybody there? Was it just you? There was a, there was a handful of people and I got a lay put around my neck. But I remember thinking that. I'm like, I wanted so bad. It wasn't a feeling of beating everybody else. It was a feeling of loss because we weren't all together. Right.

And I remember so bad feeling guilty because I wanted to wait around, but I was, I was, I was, uh, I was filleted, man. Um, I just was, I, I don't know, man. It was just so such a flood of emotion that was, um, you know, I saw Joseph Arjum, uh, not too many miles back and we stopped and hugged and high fives and gave each other, you know, at a boy and good job. And Lester, I was thinking about Lester on the day before I stopped on the bike when he was going and I gave him a hug and I told Jason, I'm like, dude,

I'm not racing today, but I want to run the queen K or I want to run down a Leahy drive in the light because it was getting dark. And, um, Mike Flaherty had already fallen out at that time because he ripped up his leg. Um, leg. So there you were in the end. I mean, what was the recovery like for you? I swam the next morning with Ian. The weird thing with me with that was that I recovered unbelievably fast. All I needed was like two nights of good sleep, and I felt totally fine. Three weeks after that that i was hammered

yeah well the weird thing is and i don't know if this happened to you but uh excuse me um my coach told me this would happen he's like you're actually gonna he goes you're not gonna believe me but you're gonna actually gain weight you know throughout this week because your body is in such trauma and crisis it thinks you're trying to kill it and you're holding all the water holding on to everything because you're running such a massive calorie deficit like you there's no way you could eat enough to keep up with the amount of calories you're burning right and the carbs so so it's like well how could i be gaining weight because your body is literally not letting any of it go. And I remember when I was done, like I was bloated, like my body looked all weird. And then like 10 days later, it just was

gone. That's exactly what happened to me. I dropped like 15 pounds in a day or something. Yeah, that's exactly what happened because you hold on to water four times more. And that's exactly what happened to me, Rich. The body had to finally realize, oh, okay, you're not going to, we're out of the woods here. You're not going to kill me. Yep. Yep. That's exactly, that is exactly what happened i went swimming with ian adamson the next day and i got about a kilometer out i'm like dude i gotta go back i could feel myself kind of getting tired and um so and then i did a quick jog and just and then i just chilled dude um just really relaxed and let my body recover. So, and then that's when injuries,

that's when Ian, no, no, I, I didn't, I, you know, I, I attribute some of that to living fuel. I, I've been with, that's when living fuel jumped on board with me, the, the, the supplement. And it's still to this day. Um, one of the things that I tout is, is a, is a secret weapon for me. So, but I had no injuries. I felt GI was good. Um, I felt like I really went through it and, and came out the other side better. It's amazing, man. And, uh, you did it in five days. You did it. It was an incredible experience. And I remember talking to you shortly thereafter and, uh, it wasn't long before you're like back on this idea of like trying to qualify for Kona. And that's when you said, I was like, what are you doing, man? You should be going to Ultraman. Like, look what you just did at Epic five. You just lit it up. Like you got to refocus, man.

Like clearly the ultra endurance is suiting you well. Yeah. And you know what, dude, to be honest with you, rich, to be totally transparent, I just got, I got sucked back in because Ian Adamson's like, hey, why don't you come to Canada and run with... I mean, he's like, Newton's doing this. And I was like, he's like, this is what guys do. They do really well. And then they go to these races, they do building. I was like, all right. And I go to Canada and I get in an accident. I get totally jacked up. I ripped up my disc wheel and that was disheartening. And then I'm like, that was my... Ironman Canada? Yeah. I got hit on the side of the road, fixing a pop chain, a dude slam. I had to buy a, some dude's tire that I had borrowed. And then I'm like, I told, and then my wife and I, Ron was

like, you got to take a break. I'm like, no, I, that was a bum deal. I got to do this. And I ended up doing that. Then, you know, then it's like, what is this dragon that you're chasing? You know what I mean? Dude, I chased it. I really did. And things started to turn for me. I got that 950 in Texas. I took a top 10.

And I was like, OK, now this is it. And then I got a really bad vibe with the whole cheating thing. It seemed like there was a lot of weird stuff going on. And then I talked to you again. With drafting in Texas? Yeah, in Texas. I was like, I'm going to Kona. This is it. I took top 10 and I'll get a roll down slot. It was the first time I'd coach myself. I did three 20 something. I had a great marathon or three 30 something marathon. I ate solid food

right after I felt great. And then, um, I remember talking to my coach. He's like a lot of Europeans won't take that spot because this is their trip. And I really had a bad taste in my mouth after that race because I thought there was some real hanky-panky stuff going on in the bike course. And I talked to you that morning before I raced. And you tweeted me and you're like, get it, Isaacson. Get it. This is your time. And then after the race, I talked to you and you said it again.

You're like, dude, it's written in the stars Christian I think you need to get you need to do and I still didn't learn Rich I still did two more how many Ironman did you do in that year I did Louisville or Texas

Louisville and Cozumel and I was close all the time. I mean, right. Right on the edge there. And then you were just like, and then after I talked to you, I got off the phone. I said, all right, I'm doing the ultra man. And Ronald's like, all right, good. And I called you up and she's not saying like enough, enough is enough with this insanity. She sometimes says that still, but it's all in love and jest. But yeah, that's when I said, all right, I'm going to take a break, recalibrate, figure this out, and then do Canada. So the idea is you want to do Ultraman, but you can't just go to ultraman hawaii

right like you have to go to and do another you have to complete another ultraman race before you can get into that race so you decide ultraman canada is what it's going to be yep and for people that are listening there are other ultraman races they're all affiliated with each other i think there's florida they're starting in austral I believe next year, Brazil one right now. Well, there is an Ultraman in Brazil, but it's not affiliated. I don't think. Yeah. Um, so, but the Canada one, which is in Penticton is really the feeder one for the Hawaii dude. It's magic. It's, it is a magical event. And so this is going to be your thing now, right? So you, so, so do you get some different kind of training advice? Are you still like self-coaching yourself?

This is when Chris Boudreau picked me up after I did Ironman, um, Louisville, after I got that nine 50 Boudreau and I met and he's like, dude, I want to help you. And he's like, you think about this? So he coached me through those two iron men, which was really good. Chris is a solid, solid guy. But after I did, um, Cozumel, um, we sat down and talked and I'm like, part of me was like, I still think I can do it. You know what I mean? You still get, cause you learn so much. And, um, but yeah, Chris picked me up and he's like, I want to coach you through, through Canada and then do the world championships. If that's the way you're going to go.

Ultraman. Yep. Um, so he coached me. Right. And so how long before he started coaching you and Ultraman Canada? It was, it was synonymous, like same time. No, but I mean, how, how long had you trained with him prior to oh i see well it was i'd been with him for five months right and then the year leading in um like so i was with him about a year before canada got you all right so how did your training

uh differ when you set your sights on on ultra Ultraman Canada versus preparing for Ironman? Well, I talked to you quite a bit. I talked with Hoth a little bit. We, we, we, we, you know, dialogued a little bit. I talked with Gordo. I talked with a couple of people, um, just feeling things out. But Chris basically, essentially, um, his idea and theories were consistent long weeks intelligently done. So I was, I was consistently doing 20, 22, 23 hour weeks consistently, um, with, uh, and I was training with him too, man. There's a couple of times I went riding with him and he just blasted me. But he, I'd said, dude, the reins are yours. So he trained me essentially like a pro. And it paid off.

Yeah, so you show up at Ultraman Canada, and what was your expectation level? I wanted to win. You wanted to win. You were going for the win first. You're like, I did Epic five. I'm ready to go. Well, Chris told me, look, he goes about two months before he said, you are not researching anybody. Don't log on. Don't look at the start list. Don't look at any, he goes, I'll do that for you. Don't worry about it. Cause Chris knows I can get in my head. And Chris is very, very, he knows I get revved up, but he's very honest. Sort of like that, you know, there's a Proverbs in the Bible that says,

a knife from a friend is much better than a kiss from an enemy. That's how Chris is with me. And he said, don't even research it. He goes, here's the plan. This is what we're going to do. Sub three-hour swim. And then I talked to you a couple of times and I'd been dialoguing with Kristen and I've been talking to rich. Um,

it's such a dynamic race. It's almost hard to go in with the hard plan, but we had a skeleton established. Um, but I thought I could win, man. I really did. I honestly think I could compete and win. Right. And so we, I want to get to, uh, Ultraman Hawaii. So I don't want to spend too much time on this, but like, how did that, how did that play out? I got out third in the water and Rhonda said the swim record was broken. And I was like, what? So now you start freaking out. Oh, there's some guys really fast. And yeah. And from that point on, I, I just raced for three days i literally just chased and raced so you just threw your race plan out the window or just dude it wasn't it wasn't

like totally thrown out the window but the solid food idea like i learned i learned a lot of things dude the learning curve on the yeah but i i chased and chased and chased and chased and chased um and i battled with a naki de la para who I've become pretty good friends with from Mexico, who won Ultraman the UK. He won two years prior. And then Craig Percival, I've become friends with. And Dave Matheson, the top. And Bergen, the guy that won Ultraman Canada two years before. All four or five of us were just battling it out for three days.

Right. So for the listener, there's a lot of triathletes and Ironman people that listen to this podcast, but not very many people that have done Ultraman. So what was the biggest difference, like in terms of what you expected it to be versus what it actually was like for somebody who is kind of in the Ironman mindset and has this idea about what Ultraman is, what was, what was, what was, what was the biggest thing where you're like, Whoa, that was not what I thought it was going to be. The, the bike was way faster. Like I so, and I was unbelievably fit and I didn't

realize it until it was too late. I think part that was part of the problem for me. So as far as that learning or telling somebody else that is that you don't, if, if depending on how you're going at it it it could be a really it turned out to be a race versus an event i guess that that would be the best way because i i mean we were just hammering each other on the bike and then the run was and the run might have been the back half of the run for ultra mad canada was so hard and a big part of that run is on trails. Yeah. The back half and Bergen, the guy that I was battling it out for, for third or second four. Cause there was a Matheson was pretty far gone and the run was man. So many dynamics come into play. Um, especially after the race, when you can talk to everybody like Matheson had asked me, he's like, dude, I couldn't believe you

weren't with me. Cause I talked to you. I talked to you the day before the day of the run. And you're like, dude, everybody's going to go boss the wall out of the gate, chill. Um, and I remember Rhonda driving up to me going, you got to pick it up. I'm like, rich. No, no, I'm good. Um, and, uh, uh, Bujo and I had a plan, so I was sticking to it, but the, the back half of the run and the bike were the biggest surprises for me. Like it's just, it just was just so unbelievably faster paced than I thought it was going to be. And, uh, and, and what about like the fueling and the nutrition? Oh, the fueling sucked because I, I had planned on, like I got into the, got into the feed zone a little bit, David Lim. Um, I was using Alan Lim. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. The other one's Bijou. Yeah. I'm sorry. Um, I was using some of that stuff during training. The rice, um, really, really worked well, but like Chris Lay had that interview, um, after Ironman. And he said, there's still a part of me for all the years racing that I've done. I have not yet quite totally understood the way that your body reacts when you're racing, even though you're going in the same intensity. So the solid food screwed me up. Yeah. A little bit. Um, and so are you're armed with, so you finished that race. What place did you get there? I took, I missed third by six seconds. All right. So your fourth place,

but you get your slot for Hawaii. Yep. And the, the Canada race is in July, August. Oh, August. All right.

And, and Ultraman Hawaii, obviously Thanksgiving weekend. So you don't have that much time in between. I mean, do you start to, you just ramp it up again or do you just try to ride this fitness through and like, I took them, I took

four weeks off. Wow. Chris was like, okay, we're going to do this. Let's take, it was three weeks, three weeks off. And then, and then our easy week and then build from there. Um, he goes, I think you can do this. So I was like, all right. Um, and then rolled right into Hawaii. Right. And so what were some of your big, like key workouts that you needed to make sure that you got done going into Hawaii? Uh, I did, I did a couple a hundred plus mile rides at race pace, obviously. Um, a lot of runs split in half where I'd run 20 in the day in the morning and 12 at night. Um, Chris was very smart making sure that I didn't hammer myself, but he wanted me to get the miles in the morning, and 12 at night. Chris was very smart making sure that I didn't hammer myself, but he wanted me to get the miles in.

And then I did interval work with Chris, speed work, because Chris was always, I could go out and hammer an Ultraman. Chris was like, I don't doubt the fact that you can, he's like, dude, you're, he would always say the Epic Five, he's like, you're built for this. He's like, you can do this. But some of the key workouts that we had to get in some long swims, um, and then the, the bike pacing and the Watts, and then just getting the miles on my legs. And so how much of, of your bike work was sort of interval based as opposed to zone two kind of

aerobic style work a lot more than I thought it would be. Yeah. Chris had me. The impression that I got was that you did a lot of intensity work. I did. And it paid off, man. It really did.

I became the best cyclist I'd ever been. Dude, I went through the Ultraman Hawaii split and day number two, Steve King, I remember, came up to me and he goes, dude, do you realize you went through the... And granted, this is coming off the volcano. So the first 25 miles, but I did it in four 42. Um, and, uh, but, but my bike intensity, Chris had me like, I'm not that strong of a biker and he brought me up. So with intensity, you demonstrated some mad bike skills in that

race. So let's just walk it, walk it through. I mean, you did not get off to a shining start. It was a rough time in the swim. Day one was the worst day of my racing career. And my understanding was that the currents were pretty rough. It was not like a fun day out there in the ocean. Yeah. It was that going back to the question you talked about the Epic five rich, that was the only, that was, I didn't think I was going to finish. I almost quit. I really did. Kai, the guy that was my paddler, firefighter from Hawaii, I couldn't quit throwing up. I just couldn't quit throwing up in the water.

How far into the swim before you started throwing up? 40 minutes. Oh, wow. And I knew something was up because I thought I was in the water for an hour and 20 or 30 minutes. I blogged about this thinking I have a really good knowledge of how long I've been in the water. And I thought, okay, I've been in for at least an hour and 20 minutes. And he's like, no, you've only been in for 40. That plays games with your head when that starts.

And Hillary, I was like, where's your cape? I'm like, what's up with this crap? She was freaking gone. I was like, whatever. That's, you know, so let her go. And I was like, it was all. Well, let her go. That implies you had a choice.

I didn't have a choice. Dude, I did. Seriously, I was, Hillary, I know you're going to listen to this this and I know you hear me tell you this, but your swimming is impressive. Yeah, she's very, she's impressive for many, many reasons. She is. But my swim was 45 minutes, 40 to 45 minutes slower. I just didn't think I was going to make it, Rich. I was throwing up think I was going to make it rich. Um, I was throwing up and

I was just, I'm watching from afar. I'm following the whole thing on my computer and I'm waiting for the splits to upload. And I was like, Ooh, it looks like you didn't, you know, you, you had a rough time. I didn't know what was happening, but what, so you got, how long, how long did that swim take you? Three 40. Uh, yeah, it's unbelievable. It was, I wanted to be, I was like, ah, if I could get in, like if I could come in around three, I'll be happy. And dude, I had Canada to go a straight shot, basically point to point swim. I didn't consider any physiological effects from swimming perpendicular. I mean, there's a, you're swimming in a flat lake versus swimming in an ocean, a turbulent ocean. Where you're getting hit on the right side.

And just to kind of put it into perspective and to kind of emphasize the turnaround that you had later in the race, when I won day one in 2009, I swam 221. That's ridiculous. So you swam 340. And then in 2011, I swam 217. That's ridiculous, dude. So you're coming in like an hour and 20 minutes after that. So the deficit that you're looking at making up in order to get back into the mix and, you know, rub elbows with the guys that are, you know, at the top of the, you know, leading the pack.

You've got, I mean, that could just crush your spirit. So how do you get on the bike and face that 90 miles on that first day and not allow your spirits to just completely crush you? My spirits were crushed. They were, right? So what's going on? I heard Gurley going, it's an early race, dude. It's an early race.

Because, dude, there was a little bit of hype before that race. I mean, some of the stuff that Lava was— Yeah, I mean, Gurley was giving you some hype. There was a little bit of hype before that race i mean some of the stuff yeah you get it i mean girly was giving you some hype there was a little bit of love getting thrown your way like you could be you know you you know you could be in the mix here and so then first so early in the race to come out in such arrears is it sucked for a split second i let that get in my head and then i'm like who gives a crap about that i heard ronda go babe breathe breathe so my buddy joe was there and ian um ian was scared because i was i just i couldn't believe it i looked at the clock and i was 14th and i'm like i'm like dude

and then that climb yeah so you get out of the water especially if you're sick to your stomach and the first thing you have to do is like this what is it three miles that's more than that straight up dude it was with right from the beginning the funny thing is though two miles in that climb i was back like osmo like things were leveling off i was sweating like crazy and i was overheating and i was hyperventilating and i was trying to but i could feel myself go like all right swims done swims done. Let's go. Um, and, uh, I remember my crew van finally catching up to me after the climb. And I said, I am going keep up. And so I just had, I thought to myself, I have got to, I've got to go. Um, and it was, how do you, how do you combat all this self doubt and all the, you know, I mean,

that had to be welling up in you, like, you know, all this work and all this, these high expectations and, and, and now I'm so far behind. Like, how are you, how are you trying to quell the, you know, what the negative impulses that I'm sure inevitably were firing in your brain? Rhonda. Because I thought about how much she sacrificed for me. I mean, and you know, I think about, I think about my relationship with Rhonda and, you know, Evelyn and Ian were there and I had my closest friends, Joe and Dorothy. And I remember thinking this swim, like, I'm going to let these people down. Like they came all this way. My, my, our closest friends took time off work and, um to be clear your crew was your wife and

your kids and then joe and dorothy right all right and they always tell you like never have your people you care about in your crew and i i didn't pay attention to that role i have my wife it's the exact opposite for me like and you do too ended up being fine but it's definitely a risk right did ronda have any idea what she was really getting involved in because well she could meet canada right all right so she had that experience yeah canada was a shock canada did she oh no it was a shock but she was she was solid man gosh she's so solid but i started thinking about that and after i got over that little pity party i had out of the water i'm like i'm not, that's it.

I'm not, I don't care how bad this hurts. I'm not going back there. Yeah. That's some pretty strong mental fortitude because I think a lot of people would have just folded. I mean, not to say that they would have quit the race, but they would have let their guard down and said, eh, you know, not happening. I'll just get through the day. I had the, I had what i told you about what happened in in the epic five i'm like i i kept thinking i thought to myself like all

right here's where i'm at this is now my like in in medicine you have to go with the baseline which is establishing their vitals right off the gut and then and then you go from there that's what i said is like okay i'm shifting my baseline this is normal for me now. This is where I'm starting. If I look at it the other way, then you fall back into, and dude, you know what? I'm a Christian. That's the number one thing in my life. And, and I tell people all the time, I'm like, dude, if you think I'm lame for believing that that's fine, but the negativity and the, that kind of stuff, dude, that breeds in you, regardless of what Avenue you're coming from. Um, if it's like a rabbit stuff, dude, that breeds in you regardless of what avenue you're coming from. It's like a rabbit hole, dude.

It's like that interview I saw of you the other day. Don't even go down it. It's not even worth it. So I established that baseline and I moved forward. Nonetheless, that still proved to be the most physically tough part of the day, the bike climb and the winds on the backside. It was freaking nuts, man. And people were dead. I don't think five people finished that day. Five people. Right. So there was crazy winds on the last 20 miles up the volcano, right? I think I remember talking to you the night before and I was

like, just make sure you've got some gas in the tank. That's exactly what you told me to the pace of the volcano, because that's going to break your back and you're going to completely underestimate how challenging that that's exactly. I had that going through my head too and i've said some choice words to you that you weren't there but um and my my buddy joe was running next to me too and he was saying some choice words and ian was like i could see him in the car going like did you hear what joe just because joe was just motivating me. But dude, you were right. When I finished that first day, that was the hardest day of my life, racing.

Right. I think that when I, going into my first Ultraman in 2008, I drove the course, but I hadn't spent time in Hawaii training. You drove the whole course? I drove the whole course two days before the race. You just went by yourself went by yourself. Yeah. In a van. How was that? It was, it was pouring rain for most of it actually. Did it scare you though? The, the, the vast distances

of it really, yeah, it intimidated me. But I think what happened was when you drive that day one course, the day one bike course yeah when you're in a car and you've never been there before driving up the volcano doesn't seem like any big deal like you don't feel the wind and the grade there's like an optical illusion where it doesn't actually look like you're climbing it's like vinyl and cd it's just gradual enough that when you're in a car you don't really notice it yeah so i completely underestimated how hard that first day bike was. But driving the course, I was so intimidated by the distance on day two that day two, 170 miles on the bike actually ended up being easier

than I was expecting it to be. Because psychologically you were. Maybe because it was a psychological trick. I don't know. I didn't know that you did that you drove the course man that's interesting so you had to have just been hammered when you finished day one right i was dude so you're you're scrambling to move up the rank so you're doubling down you're probably going harder on the bike than you expected to way harder and you're depleted and dehydrated from the swim everything

what what uh you know what what happens when you cross that finish line after day one uh well i crumpled up on the side of the road and vomited like a four-year-old baby that was sick. Um, it sucked. Uh, but I knew Ron was like, you moved up to seventh or eighth. And, um, are you thinking like, are you taking Chris Boudreaux's advice and trying to not, you know, be in the heads of your competitors? Or are you just obsessing on where's Alexander? Where's Miro? Where's, you know, actually, I mean, knowing you, I think I know the answer to this, but Boudreaux is very tactical. He's very smart. And, uh, he and I discussed a race plan where, cause, cause I met, I met Alexander, I met Ribeiro before the event started

and he didn't know me from Adam. And for the listeners, he's like multiple world champion at this distance. He's been undefeated in the last four years, five years. And he's won six times. Anyway, and Krieger was there and he met me before.

I waited to meet him. He was getting interviewed and I positioned myself just so he could see me. And I just waited and waited and waited for 15 minutes. Rondo's in the car waiting for me. He got up and shook my hand and he put his hand on my shoulder. And he's like, look, man, it's your first time. Just enjoy the race. Don't push. Just, just, just sit back and relax and enjoy it. And, and, and just, everything's going to be great. You're going to enjoy yourself when it gets hard, Pick up your cadence, slow down.

Um, kind of like a grandfather. Um, and I was thinking about that at the end of day one. I'm like, that guy was right, man. This is,

you know, this is, um, this is the real deal. That's what I kept thinking too. I mean, how is it different from Canada? Uh,

other than the, other than the washing machine, you know, swim experience. It was a nightmare compared to Canada. And I remember Steve Brown saying at the Canada race briefing, you're going to climb a hill, but if any of you have ever done Ultraman Hawaii, that's a hill, that climb coming out of the swim. I was wrecked after day one. In Canada, I was a little bit jovial, shaking hands, sitting in an ice bath. But after day one, I was in the car.

I was crying and screaming, and Jim Grewley was looking at me. I remember I was just delirious. I read a portion in Job the night before that said, when, when Job, when God talks back to Job and he's like, all right, are you, are you done pissing and moaning? Now stand up and answer me like a man. Um, I kept saying that, like, I just was out of my mind. Like I was standing out and I just felt like I was like, stand up and answer me. I just felt like Nate, everything was out there and you feel like it's against you, the wind, the rain, the water, the swimming, the heat, you turn a corner and it's hot. And,

and you also think that it's personal, like you're suffering from that. Exactly. And everyone else is immune. You don't think anybody else is, you know what I mean? You don't think anybody else is hurting. Um, but dude, you know, I was scared. I guess i was scared that that would be the best way i mean when alexander made those comments to you did you take that in good spirit or yes you like insulted like because he's sort of saying hey man don't sweat it like you know take a back seat and don't worry about it there's another year i felt like he was playing head games with me and girly was right there and i kind of looked over at him and smiled and chuckled and um i felt like he was the um the wise sage i wouldn't he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who plays head games not not like he's he's quite genuine yeah

not head games in the sense that like i'm trying to beat you because he's the best like he right you were not a threat to him. I don't think anybody was. I don't even think, I think nobody was a threat there. I meant like almost head games to the point where he was like so nice and so like, it surprised me at how much, I guess maybe head games, I shouldn't have said that, not head games.

I guess maybe head games. I shouldn't have said that. Not head games. Um, I, I just felt like it was a very grandfather way to approach me. Well, I think with all of his success at that race comes a certain responsibility and an ambassadorship. And I think that like when I, in 2009, when I won day one and he came in like, I don't know, uh, you know, 20, 30 minutes behind me. Right. You know, I was like, oh my God, I just beat the world champion by, you know, a pretty, you know, significant amount of time. And at the finish line, we were taking pictures and he had his arm around me and he was smiling and he was genuinely happy for me because I think that he has such a command over that race. I agree. Even though he was recognizing that I was having a moment that was a big deal for me, he was able to enjoy that with me without me being a threat because he knows that the race hasn't even started yet and that he is in full command of his destiny in that race.

Yeah, I think, I don't think, I guess head games is not the right phrase. I think he seemed so, he seemed so relaxed and I never met him before. He seemed so relaxed and so comfortable and so certain and confident that it appeared to me like he was playing. I didn't know him for a minute.

He just seemed like he was like, everybody else you can kind of feel has got like they're nervous. But for him, it was, um, a hug and a hand on the shoulder and a handshake. And that's normally how I am towards people. So it was very different for me to get that. Um, and throughout the course of becoming a close friend of his, throughout the course of the next three days, I realized just how sincere he was when he told me that. And I gruelingly noticed. And Jim and I talked about it too.

But I told him after racing and riding and getting to know him was one of the greatest honors of my life. Because, dude, I was starstruck. I was, I was, it was a starstruck moment for me. Even Ian said, Dad, you turned kind of white. I just didn't know the command that he has. His presence just commands respect. Right.

And the default mechanism that we think is he's screwing with respect. Right. Um, and the default mechanism that we think is he's screwing with me. Right. Um, but he gave me the, the, the end of his race and I don't want to jump to it too quick, but he gave me a shirt. We changed X-Trade shirt and he said one of the coolest things to me anybody has ever said. So we'll just say it now, man. He said, I want to be here next year when you win. And I was like, what? And he goes, that day two performance on your bike, he said, that's how you win this race. And I'm not saying that because I just think that he, like, and there's a picture of him with his hand on my shoulder that Gurley got. And Jim's like, the look between you guys from the day that you met and the last picture, he's like, it's priceless. And when he said that to me, I don't think he was insinuating like, I'm going to be the next year's champion.

But I think he recognized in me the desire to want to win. Right. And that was played out magnificently in your day two bike performance. So we talked. I can't remember whether we talked the evening. Yeah, I think we talked the evening after your day one. And you said, call me in the morning. Right. And I was like, call, yeah.

And I think my, I can't remember exactly what I said to you, but I think it was like, listen, day two is a long, it's a long ride, man. And that the ride really doesn't even start until you get out of helo right yes like just just bide your time pace yourself just you know stay within your within your you know wherewithal yeah and you know resist the temptation to unleash until at least you get you get north of helo which is how many miles into the into it is that that's like i don't know 50 60 you're on 65 70 miles and so and so what do you do well mark mctoysick and hillary biscay took care of me that night they brought me lava salt and potatoes and my stomach was jacked up i talked to you talked to And, um, I, I, I freaking laid the hand. I just went balls out. Um, I stayed with blasted from,

well, dude, listen, you know what the listen? Cause Chris, Chris, Chris talked to me and he goes, he goes, dude, here's the situation. You're in eighth place. You had a crappy swim. Let's see how you feel in the morning. Um, and I remember thinking to myself, I know there's a 25-mile descent. We're going to hit speeds up to 50 miles an hour. I do not want to get dropped. And I didn't. I stayed with – we all started together. I was with Hillary.

We chatted a little bit. So for the listener, the first on day two of the – day two of Ultraman is a 170-mile bike. 171. And the first 20 miles are straight downhill. Yep. And it's draft legal, which means you can ride as a pack. And when the gun goes off, it's like people are taking off for a time trial. And everyone's trying to get into jockey in position to get into this front pack so they can make it down the hill first and you

make this right hand turn when you get to the bottom and then everybody starts to separate and you're no longer allowed to draft so it's all about like trying to get into position for that turn right and the the pace with the pace is rip roaring it's's ridiculous. I remember in 2011 when I did, it was pouring rain. Yeah. We were, we were like, it was me.

I remember riding right next to Jonas Colting and it was pouring rain. And I was like, this is insane. We're on tri bikes with those stupid little breaks that, you know, that suck. I was like, this is crazy.

Yeah. I thought the same thing and it wasn't raining. It rained later in the day, but, um, and that's, I remember thinking next to Ribeiro watching him just how much of a, like being in ringside seats, watching him the three days, just masterful, like the comfort and ease that he went down that hill. And it's, it was, it was like watching Tiger Woods play golf. I mean, so I told myself, stay with him. Just stay with him. Hillary had told me since I was having so many problems with my stomach, you need to get something down soon. And Chris said the same thing.

And Rhonda said the same thing, but she's like, babe, you've got to eat. So I got a bar in and I felt good. My stomach was settled. That first 25 miles or whatever things settled down we make that turn and some dude behind me eats it i think it was uh i can't remember who it was and then somebody crashed at the bottom right yeah yeah um and then it was ribeiro myself krieger and sheeper and we're all kind of in front. And I noticed that Roberto had, was having some kind of mechanical issue. He reached for some tri-flow and it looked like he was hitting his headset or something. I couldn't quite figure it out, but he did it twice.

And every time he did it, he slowed down. And I was like, all right, if he does it again, I'm gone. And I did. And I did not let up for a hundred miles. did and I did not let up for a hundred miles. And he is a masterful tactician and he is extremely patient because he understands how long the race is and he knows where to pick his battles. And having seen what you had done the day prior, I think he probably felt comfortable with like giving you a little bit of a leash and seeing, you know, and not being threatened by that, even if he was dealing with a mechanical. I mean, what was your, well, I found out it wasn't mechanical. He's reaching for water, uh, um, or fuel. And I was, I, I, I do landmark. I developed a thing called Epic five called

landmark racing. Um, and well, I didn't develop it, but I started thinking about it and then it was just a thought when I was wandering on the roads. And then this time it came back to me and I'm like, my strategy is whatever natural landmark I get to that there's a, there's a deviation that I can turn around and look at. I don't want to see anybody there for the rest of the day. So I would like, I'd go and I'd look way back three miles back at sea Hill. And I just would, I just pushed it. I just, I just pushed it, man. I pushed it as hard and as fast as I could for you really, you just redlined it right out of the gate, but I felt so good. Um, and, and, and I had my coaches, my, my coach is like, dude,

go to the rivet if you have to, but lay it out there if you feel like you can do it. He's like, don't be stupid. Don't go, you know, heart rate 170, which I wasn't. What was your heart rate? I was staying consistently around, you know, like 150, 152. It was your zone three for your bike. And my watts were, I was pushing watts. And I don't think necessarily I push

heavy Watts, but I have a very aggressive position and I'm very aerodynamic and I have a very fast bike and I just felt like things were clicking. And, um, I heard the splits as I was going by Steve King for the, for, you know, four and a half hours in a row. And I was well ahead, um, until I got caught. And that's when... So you rode off the front. So you're riding, you're leading the field. Yep. For how many hours is that going on?

Oh, it's close to five. And are you looking back like... Yes. And are they within eyesight behind you? So you don't even know. So when you look at your crew, would you say, hey, Rhonda, like how, what's my gap? Do you know how, do they know so when you look at your crew when you say hey ronda like how what's my gap do you know how did they know anything do they have any information but

joe just kept going dude you're killing them you're destroying them so around around 80 miles in or 90 miles in it might have even been over no it was it was actually over 112 in because i knew how fast i hit that iron man checkpoint it It was 120, 130, somewhere in that area. Um, I told myself, okay, now really push it because they're getting worried. And I want to take out as much as I can of their legs, especially Riberio and Krieger's legs. Um, so I did that and that's when I started to redline, but I just didn't, I just was like, is that like in the climb into wide man? Yeah. Yeah. And I was vomiting, like I was vomiting uncontrollably, but I just did not. I just was like, I'm just throwing caution to the wind. I'm

just going. Um, so, and so where do they start to catch up? Ribeiro caught me at mile 150 something and we stopped at a light. is that right before the climb up the college yep yep it was right it was right before that or or very close because he caught me at a light and he put his arm on he put his hand on my head and um that light at the gas station right before you turn right and then you're gonna no no was, it was like in a rural area by a school. Um, I was, my memory is kind of shady, kind of hazy. Maybe it wasn't by a school by like a market or something, but I remember like right before the Kahalas. Yeah. It was on the back. It was like 140 miles, 150 miles in. Does that sound right? Yeah. That's about right. Yeah. And he put his hand on my shoulder at the stoplight and i saw he had been vomiting all day too and um i felt like he was playing mind games with me then

but more like a jedi master like like he put his hand on my shoulder and he nodded and it's the first time ever i felt like a pro did he say anything to you he just nodded his head and it literally it was like like it literally, it was like a... And it was... Well, it's disrespect. It was, but it was very... There was just something about that man that I'm attracted to.

And I stayed with him for a little bit and riding behind him in his legs and his positioning that far into the race, being that solid, that's when I started to doubt myself. Um, I'm like, he is, uh, I don't know. It just was, he's able to, I mean, in terms of like a champion, he's everything you want your champion to be. He's very incredibly gracious and he's giving and he's kind and he always has a smile on his face and he loves his kids loves his kids involves his kids yeah i mean it's like the guy's an amazing guy right but then in the it is when in it's in when the rubber meets the road and everyone else

is falling apart and he still has perfect form you know i apologize to his um i apologize to his crew guy the guy that he has there every year. Oh, Jose. Yeah, because there was a part of that race where he totally misread what I said. I was like, tell him to get up here. Tell him, because I wanted him to, at that time, like, I think the honest and the starstruck of him being there was gone. And it was more like a competitor and an adversary and an asset, depending on where you are in the race. But I called him. I told his guys, like, I'm waiting, you know, pull him up. And when he started to catch me, he's like, oh, he's coming for you. I mean his guys like, I'm waiting, you know, pull him up. And when he started to

catch me, he's like, Oh, he's coming for you. I mean, it was very, and I was like, Oh, he thought you were taunting. Yeah. So after I went up and I gave him a hug and I'm like, I hope I didn't. And he's like, no, no, no, no. I understand. And he gave me, the guy gave me a big hug and a kiss on the neck. Um, kind of a big burly dude. Yeah. And, uh, then Roberto did the same thing at the end of day two. And it was, so you, so day two, you, uh, did Miro catch you as well, or you were second behind Miro and I battled. Yeah. So I knew there was something else going on. He and I battled for about 20 miles going up the, and he, he broke me and I saw the look in his eye. Um, and he broke me. Uh,

eye um and he broke me uh i i mean it was a i mean we were killing each other and i read somewhere in an article he had asked over to his crew is he done and they nodded his head and he took off like a lightning bolt right so he's just waiting for the moment where you were gonna crack i thought i cracked him i thought i cracked him because I dropped him the second or third time and he was not coming back. And I remember I switched my aero helmet to my regular helmet because I'm like, I got to keep the gas on, but I was overheating. So I grabbed my regular helmet from Rhonda and then I felt good for another five or 10 Ks.

And then he started to catch me again. I felt good for another five or 10 Ks. And then he started to catch me again. And then one of the climbs, he just took off. Right. All right. So you finished that day third. He wasn't as personable as Ribeiro either, as Alexander. Well, there's a language barrier too.

Yeah. I mean, I love Miro. I was so glad that he won the race and finally had his day. Dude, I was too. And he was just as, like, I don't want to say he's personable in a bad way, like I'm meeting a new class teacher, but I just meant, like, he seemed more focused

than anybody else there. Whereas Ribeiro... You're talking about the difference between a Slovenian and a Brazilian. And a Brazilian. So it's like it's Ipanema Beach, and it's like the guy who's... I mean, like, come on.

I know, dude. And Alexander had just kind of like this, just like he was just kind of like in touch with everything. So and then I was I was just in awe that I was racing with these guys. Yeah. And for the listener, I mean, you know, these these guys, Miro and Alexander, are the consummate champions. And ultimately, in this past year, Miro has always been the second run, you know, the sort of also ran to Alexander, who was always the champion. But they're the best of friends, and they train together, and they love each other. And Miro finally had his day.

And it was awesome. Got to win the race for the first time, which was a beautiful thing. But I remember following the race and I'm like, oh, my God, like Christian is just redlining from the get go. Like, I hope this doesn't blow up and become a disaster. And, you know, you held on with your, you know, the hair of your chinny chin chin. Yeah. Like I stayed in the mix and and you know you didn't you didn't win the stage but you redeemed yourself and then some

and earned the respect of you know and krieger gave me the biggest hug at the race and and suddenly you know it's a completely different picture right was at the end of day one for you yeah and meryl gave me a huge hug at the end of like, I just felt like I was a comrade. Um, I felt respected and I felt not like I wanted, I guess part of me did want respect because not respect in the sense that I feel like they owe it to me, but just, I was like, cause they don't owe me crap. They're there. They've been doing this for 20 years and I'm this new guy coming in. And I remember when her bro was like, you were such a good rookie, you were a rookie. And I'm like, it's weird to think you're a rookie when you're 40, but it's the truth, man.

It just goes to show you how dedicated they are that they've been in the game this long. Yeah. They've been doing it for a long time. And meanwhile, I'm at home, like looking at the splits on the computer and just thinking, there's no way this guy's gonna be able to run tomorrow like you just blew it out like you were so determined possibly desperate to redeem yourself that you threw everything to the wind and just overextended yourself and then some to kind of get back in the mix and i'm like i hope he can stand up when he wakes up in the morning and it wasn't a need for it wasn't a stand a need for redemption for anybody else but to try to get me to get to the position so I could be. I wanted to win, man. Right, I know.

And I know how well I recover. So I wasn't worried about the recovery for the run at all. And Rhonda worked on my legs and I did great recovery. I probably ate a little too much that night because I was just taxed. And I felt good the next morning, man. So what was the run strategy? And I think I talked to you that night and I was like, please do not try to run with Alexander and Miro from the gun.

Cause those guys are going to take off. Like it's a five K and you told me you're like Christian. I remember exactly what you said. You're like Christian, dude, this could shake out for you. And he's like, I don't know if you're going to catch Miro,

but he goes, if you took enough, you told me if you took enough out of their legs, you might, I was like, you don't know what's going to happen. You kept on me it's a long race it's like you gotta have to be smart you know yeah and you can't you're not going to be able to like red line it from the gun and i did like you did on the bike i didn't expect to be standing i talked with hillary before the

race i'm like what do you what do you plan on running and she's like seven I can't remember, I think she said 730s. Right. Or 730, not 730s. And we had a little bit of discussion, and you're right, dude, those guys took off like it was a 5K. Mm-hmm. And I let everybody go. And I said, I'm sticking to eight minutes. And I did. I hit the first marathon at 322, 23.

I felt great. I'd run with Hillary a a couple miles we had talked that was really cool that was a really good experience for me because she now she's a mind game player too but not in the sense she's just such a competitor that she is so um i don't know that i've ever experienced any other athlete so in tune with their body. Um, well, I mean, she has so much experience. It's ridiculous. She's just so smart and so savvy. And so, um, so I ran with her, we, we ran together for awhile. I was like, I'm running eight. She stayed with me and she's clipping away and we were talking. And then there was a point around mile 22 or 20 that I just was

like, I just felt good. I just kept going. I caught cheaper. And then at mile 26, I told Joe and Rhonda, and I was like, don't tell me where anybody's at until the first marathon's over. And Lennox is like, Joe's like, dude, Ribeiro's walking. Something's wrong with his hip. He's got a hitch in his giddy up, he said. He's like, you're going to catch him, man. And I'd already caught cheaper, and I was in third. I think I was in third and then between miles and 26 and 30 nope starts to unwind throwing up again what's going on cramps throwing up i just threw up for the next 22 miles

constantly it was gross what What was your nutrition? What were you using for nutrition? Well, at that time, by then I was on the Coke. And I remember Chris telling me, wait as long as you can on the Coke. But I was, the first 10 miles I had diarrhea really bad, so I had to stop. My stomach was really messed up from the, from the day, just from everything. But I, I just had this horrible cramping in my stomach cramping, like you'd had food poisoning cramping. I stopped and had used about them a couple of times, pushed a lot of

fluids. And my, my idea was just to drink. I had scratch, I had some water and some Gatorade. Um, I gels, um, I was just doing my best to, and Ron was like, you got to get solids in banana. I mean, we were, I was just trying to that first marathon to get as much as I could in. So the back half, I could stick with the Coke and the water, but it didn't matter whatever I put in, I threw up. And so what are you doing? You're walking. Was I walking? Yeah. I walked. Yeah. But not, not, I mean, I walked from mile 26 to, so what are we talking about? I hit mile 26 and Rhonda said she saw a change in me at mile 23, but she didn't say anything to me. Um, I didn't feel it till mile 26 or 27 because I got my first split. Steve King was

like, Christian's gaining. I felt good. My, my, my motivation was high. My morale was up. I changed my shoes, but then I went back, my shoes were hurting. Um, and then, uh, I turned around around mile 31 or 32, or maybe it was a little bit even later than that. I saw Hillary coming and, uh, Joe and Dorothy, they ran with me the last 22 miles on and off. Um, and they were tenacious about not letting me walk. Um, just tenacious. And I remember at one point too, I'd fallen onto the floor and I was like, Oh Lord, help me. And Dorothy was like, get up. You can pray later. We're running. And she's just five foot one, you know, stuff. But I just,

I tried everything and nothing would stay down. Um, so that last 10 miles, where are you in the standings? Like, so you still have Ribeiro and Miro ahead of you. Hillary caught me and Hillary, I don't know if she, I don't think cheaper caught me again. Somebody else caught me another Brazilian guy caught me, but he was like ninth or 10th. And I know there's a change that takes place in me because it's, it was at that point. I was like, I don't care what places he in Tenth. Who cares? Let him catch me. Whereas normally I'd be like, I got to go, man. But Rich, I was hurting.

I was hurting like I'd never hurt before. And it was insulting, man. Just like visceral to the point where you think everybody's out to get you. I remember telling Dorothy, shut up. I was like, Dorothy, you can't talk anymore.

Cause they were trying to encourage me. And after they were like, try to keep his mind on other things. And, um, uh, the pro that lives next to, to Lieto in Hawaii,

he's the us Austrian guy. Tom, he, he wrote next to me for a couple miles he's like and he knew I was Chris Lato's friend and

but I don't know if Joe and Dorothy would have been there if I would have finished so how how do you get to the finish line

I just I was praying the whole time yeah and even Gourley had mentioned to me he's like

I don't think I've ever seen anything like i think that maybe god was the only one that got you through there because it was it was um bad shape ian was crying ronda was crying ian was scared um it just hurt dude yeah so so you so you cross the finish line and so miiro, Miro wins the double marathon. Miro got tagged twice, but Miro, but Miro ends up pulling out like this crazy hail Mary and ends up winning the

race. Cause he, he was able to get enough of a gap on Alexander with still two, two, two penalties. He got 12 minute penalties. Yeah, exactly.

And the penalties. So Alexander gets together enough to finish the race in second place. He didn't get passed by you. But Hillary gets third, right, in the double marathon. And then you come in at seven hours. What was your? No, I think I was just over eight. Oh, you were just over eight.

Yeah, so you had a hard time. It was sheeper. It was Krieger, Ribeiro, so you had a hard time. It was Riberio, or it was Krieger, Riberio, Schieper, Hillary, me. I was fourth male, fifth overall. And Riberio was the first one to congratulate me.

I mean, he was, that was a big deal for me. Dude, if you can just balance those three days out a little bit better, you know what I mean? Like, you're all over the map, you know, in terms of, and it started off, it's not, you know, it just got off on the wrong foot because of the ocean and the stomach stuff. But you know, there's a, you can dial it in and like perfect what you're doing. And I think you'll have a quantum leap in your performance. I met with the doctor when I got back and he told me,

um, actually it was one of my old coaches who's a doctor and he's like i think he goes i don't think you i think you're underestimating the effects of that swim over the course of the night because even a couple of days after i was still kind of kind of loopy and dizzy and it wasn't the type of loopy and dizzy feel after doing a race it was like mike i was a little bit off balance, but that swim was the biggest surprise of my life. So, and I'm not a natural swimmer. Dude, I don't have your abilities and talents. When Hillary gets out in the water and you see a swimmer swim like that, you're just like, what am I seeing right now?

It's like art. The same way that Ribeiro and Krieger ran and rode. But I have work to do. I know that. um, the same way that we're barrel and Krieger ran and road. Um, but I have work to do. I know that. So when are you coming back to race? Yeah, I will be racing Ultraman Florida this year, next year,

next year, next February. So, okay. Next February. And then, and then tentatively Ultraman Hawaii, the championships,

uh, the championships. The guy that won Canada should be there in Hawaii next year. And the guy that won Florida will be in Florida with Inaki, which will be good. I have a race in Bend. Bend 250. Yeah. Good, man. Well, we got to talk about, I want to talk about Africa. Man, dude, are we going too long?

Dude, how long have we been going for? Two hours and 35 minutes. Dude, is this too long? What's up with that? We haven't even talked about Africa. Is that cool that you have this long of a podcast? Dude, I can do whatever I want. Okay.

All right. So this year has a little bit of a different focus for you. It's a very service-oriented thing. You just got back from Kenya. And you showed me this five-minute sort of trailer video from a documentary project that you're working on from this experience of being there. Correct. So tell me what it is. I know it's called the Amina project, but explain what this whole thing is about. So I just teamed up with Ian and Anne May. They started a nonprofit in Portland. Ian ran the Caribou Clinic in Kenya, which is a place where women that have been raped and are pregnant and have no way to get the stuff that they need.

He basically, him and his wife and his children moved to Kenya for three years. They got embedded in the culture, learned the language, and then they ran the caribou clinic, and then they came back to America. Well, the people that were there said, we miss you. And Ian said, back to America. Well, the people that were there said, we miss you. And Ian said, find a place that needs some, that needs resources. And they went and found

one of the most desolate destitute areas in Kenya. And they established the Amina project, which is the name of their daughter. It's a school. Um, and it's a place where these kids that have absolutely no chance at a life at all, get education in food and to see the reaction of these children, um, 75 to 80 kids a day come and through a strange course of events, I met up with him and I said, hey, I want to do what you're doing. I want to be a part of this. I want to bring medicine to this village. Here are my talents.

This is what I do. And we met and we're like brothers. I mean, and he said, okay. So I said, I want to raise some funds and some awareness for what you're doing. And that's where I'm at. So I went to Kenya with him. How long were you in Kenya for?

I was gone for about two weeks, but I was only in Kenya for eight days or nine days because the travel is so crazy. I was at the Amina Project for four or five days. And then I went up to Eldorette where the runners were, Kip Kengo and the rim up there where all the big runners are at. I spent a couple of days up there with one of my closest friends, Ted, at Open Arms Village. He does mission work over there too. Interesting. Yeah. So just in watching the video and kind of how you explained it to me,

you know, it's unimaginable just how destitute this situation is. And you're seeing, you know, these kids who are just in terrible physical condition and malnourished, et cetera. And I feel like, you know, we've become kind of, you know, what's the word?

You know, we see so much of this kind of footage, you know, and sort of like, Oh, here's the, just getting destitized. Yeah. Like here's the kids in africa and and here's the plea to help and nothing ever seems to change and and it's like yeah you become numbed out yeah you do and it seems so far away yep from

my daily experience that it's easy for me to compartmentalize it and just be like all right well cool dude nice you know keep it up yeah and like, let's go to Starbucks. You know what I mean? Like, so what is, you know, what is the solution when you see that and you're just like, it's not getting any better. You know, it's like, it's pretty freaking bad. It is getting better what they're doing here though. And that I think is the big, there's a vortex and like a vacuum in the United States, especially when you have people in a room and you ask them for money, because we have bastardized giving in the United States where you give a dollar and 60 cents of it goes to an intern. That's that trying to, right. Well, I think, I think Americans are getting very hip and savvy

to giving and giving has changed and progressed in quite, quite a number of cool and interesting ways. And it's never been more awesome to be a social entrepreneur and to have a, you know, an NGO. And, and like when I was in college, like that was not something that people were that interested in doing. And now it's like, it's like cool to do that. And it's like, and there's a, there's a different vibe to it. But I also think that the American public, now because of technology, there are ways for these NGOs to connect the giver to the result of the give. Exactly. The way it didn't exist. And people are like, I don't want to give to, you know, I don't want to call a charity out, but like big charity X. Because I have no idea where that money's going.

It's probably going to pay rent at some skyscraper in Manhattan. I saw it. It's not going to the well. You know what I mean? Like Haiti is a great example of that. Haiti was a great example of where, where, where money didn't get to where it was supposed to go. And, um, I haven't been charity. People have been burned. They're like, right, right. And when I saw the results of what two people, a small, like four people in Portland are doing in outside of Nairobi in this little village when you look, cause I've had people say like, dude, what do I mean? Cause there are a lot of people that just do, they don't care. Um, and it's not a guilt thing. I'm like, whatever, that's cool. But like when you see, like when you see the tangible results of,

of having your hands on these kids or these adults that have never been touched before by a white guy who they're heralded as godlike status to come down off their perch and hug me and love me and cry with me and pray with me and touch me. The medicine doesn't even matter. And Ian told me that. He's like, you know what, dude? He goes, you think you're doing something by, you know, fixing their lesions and finding what's wrong with their hearts. And he was like, what you're doing and the love that you're showing. And dude, I'll tell you, the biggest thrill for me was to have those villagers ask me to not go. They're like, dude, don't go. And I told Rhonda when I got back that for me to function in that realm made me feel like I was like operating.

I was doing what I was supposed to do and nobody knew where I was at. And it correlated with endurance. And I started to think about all the times that I was lonely on the islands or lonely in the races where nobody knows where you're at. Nobody's what you're doing. Except now I am holding some lady's baby who their mother has spent the last 13 years chewing her food and giving it to her. That girl in the movie, her mom spent 13 years chewing her food to feed her because she can't do it. But it's so hard for people to understand that unless they go and see it but how do you how do you solve the problem like how do you create infrastructure there that will um lead to a sustainable you know solution that can

get to the root of this and rectify the problem as opposed to, well, we just have to go visit every six months because no one else is there. And that's the interesting about the media project is Ian is employing and equipping Kenyans to take care of Kenyans. White man is not coming to fix the issue. Um, I heard somebody once tell me before it's kind of cool to adopt kids now. And it has been for a while. And I think adoption is vital, but, um, and I've talked to, uh, Al Sergal that, um, your buddy, we've talked a little bit about this and I've got some other friends that are in adoption, but, um, if we don't equip Kenyans or Haitians or any places that aren't as fortunate and as blessed

as we are to take care of their own communities through what they do and not what we do, it won't be sustainable, Rich. Right. Because we're putting a Band-Aid on an amputated hand. So Ian has... And not only... It prevents real solution from taking root. Exactly.

Because you become reliant upon the sort of, you know, the caregiver and you're never sort of having to solve it yourself. You're right. And Ian and Ann have formulated a nonprofit organization that has a school that feeds children twice a day where they are enabling Kenyans to be in charge of Kenyans. And when you see the results of children and their parents bringing them to this school and the kids clapping and singing and learning and like you're giving hope, um, to a hopeless situation and, and you're not forgetting the forgotten. And, um, you know, Ian told me I paid $8 for a woman to go have her, we found her and she was dying from infection. She had her whole leg was gangrenous and she was dying.

And I paid $8 to get her to the hospital. And now she's, she's fixed. Um, Ted, my buddy. Uh, so there is that direct connection with the giver and you,

you see your, you get to follow the kind of, exactly. If you just don't like piss your money away and you're like, where'd it go? I don't know. Um, and you hear people say like, well, like for the cost of a latte, you can feed a kid for it. That stuff doesn't, right. You just don't like piss your money away and you're like, where'd it go? I don't know. And you hear people say like, well, for the cost of a latte, you can feed a kid for it. That stuff doesn't.

Right. It just, it becomes white noise. Exactly. So the Amita Project and what Chris Lieto and More Than Sport are doing, that is what has been so needed in a, you know, in an avenue of our life that has been rusted. So, um, so, and where's all this leading for you? Uh, well, I'll tell you, honestly, I think it's going to lead like, uh, the fundraiser and the awareness campaign that I'm doing and the, and the hope that I can help fund a medical access fund for the Kenyan people that live in Kiangon Bay, which is my hope. And to help, I'm trying to even help raise some money for more than sport for Chris and his operational costs, because I think what he's doing validates the need for athletes that are money-making machines

to just do something. Um, so for me personally, it's going to hopefully lead me there again and again and again. Um, and how does, uh, so for the listener, Chris Lieto, pro triathlete, Ironman champion guy, he has his own foundation. It's called more than sport. Essentially what they do is, uh, well, Chris came up with this idea because as a result of being a pro triathlete he gets to go to all these amazing beautiful tropical locations for these races and he gets to stay in nice hotels and it's only when he's out on the bike or on the run where he sees the kind of the reality of where these places are and you can see the way people are actually living and it occurred to him like we come in a weekend, we do this race and we leave.

We should really invest in these communities that we are so fortunate to visit. So he starts this foundation. And the idea is you stay after the race and you contribute in some way, whether it's building a house or, my understanding is it takes different forms for different places, et cetera.

Yeah, he's in the Philippines right now. He is, wow. Where the tsunami, I think it was the flood at. He's in the Philippines right now where the tsunami, I think it was the flood at. He's in the Philippines right now doing a basketball camp. Maybe it was a typhoon, yeah. But how does More Than Sport dovetail with Amina Project in Kenya? How does that work? Well, number one, we use each other as support and encouragement. I'm like just a base level. But the way that more than sport is formulated is, you know, he's got Chrissy Wellington, Craig Alexander, the U.S. cycling team, a couple of pro surfers, one of the San Francisco Giants pitchers. use the infrastructure that Chris has built with his legal team and 501c3 status to basically promote a cause that's personal to the athlete. And it gives an avenue for you to build a awareness campaign around what you feel, you know, like Craig Alexander's part of more than

sport. He works with the burn foundation, I think, and where he's from. And I think Luke McKenzie might even be a part of it. But it's a, it's a way it it's more than the just do it campaign. You know it it's neat to see Chris say it's more than just the finish line. Um, and he's legit, man. I mean, you've hung with him, so. Yeah, but it's, it's the follow through. It's the difference between the statement and the action. Exactly.

It's all about like, all right, well, he actually is in the Philippines and he's doing this. And I know he's built houses and he's done all these amazing things. And I've seen how that organization has kind of organically grown over the last couple of years and it's not going anywhere, but, uh, dude, it's like that. I was listening to your podcast. Was it nice? Who is the film guy from Manhattan? Nice stat. Oh, Casey. Nice stat. Yeah. In his, uh, in his clip that he's got, uh, the, where he's going around the world. There's that clip from Gandhi that says, action shows, what does it say? Action signifies priorities. And that's what Chris is.

His action signifies the priorities. Right, right. So we're doing the Amina Project fundraiser and we'll see where that goes. Right, cool. And you're looking to go back to Kenya at some point. Yep. Yep. And the cool thing is I'm able to network all the people that I have supporting me. And I've told that like the sponsors that I have, the Adidas and

Polar, and I'm not trying to plug these guys, but I've told them, look, I'm not the world's greatest athlete. I'm telling you right now, I've said the same thing, but you gave me this advice. I'm like, here's what I can give you. Um, here's where my legs will go, but here's where my heart will take us. And it seems to really resonate with some of the people that have been working with me. So I think, I think we're at an age where even some of the great athletic corporations are starting to see now that, man, there is more than just sport. Um, and like Damon Lillard from the Portland trailblazers has got a big campaign up there for bullying. Um, you know, so there's just, it's just cool. It's just really cool. Cool, man. Cool, man. Yeah. It's awesome. I'm excited to see where, uh, where this takes you

in your life, man. It's awesome. Well, thanks Rich. Dude. I didn't mean to, when you said two hours, 30 minutes, I'm like, man we do dude we're at 250 but you know what this is not the i think i went longer with uh who was it oh mac danzig and i we went like over three hours i think so do we keep don't sweat it no let's wrap it up all right i'm hungry all right i think we did it though yeah do we do it yeah all right man dude how you? I feel good it's a dream come true I know your expectations too I don't want to like you know it's all good? Yeah it's really good man

I really really appreciate it that was a pleasure man you're an inspiration and it is going to be cool to see what happens next in your life and I will eagerly follow you and await to see what happens next in your life, man. And I will eagerly follow you and await to see what occurs. Well, I hope this isn't the last time I'm with you, man.

No, I don't think it's going to be. So cool. All right. You want to find out more about Christian? The best place to do that is christianisakson.com, right? Correct. And on Twitter, you're Luke9 20. Correct. Right. So Instagram, tell me what Luke nine 20 is real quick. Luke nine, Luke nine 20 is a verse from the Bible

that says, who do you say that I am? And, uh, one of the great philosophers of the time said, whether you are a Christian or not a Christian or believe in God or believe in Jesus or don't, um, it's a question that everybody has to answer who, you know, who do you say Christ is? And, um, for me, it's just a good catalyst to, to talk to people and just say, Hey man, this is what Christ has done in my life. And, um, you know, he, he loves me and he loves you. And, um, it's just one of those little verses in the Bible that has really, um, it pierces me every time I come up to a, to a, to a tumultuous time, whether I'm in a race or, uh, I'm in Kenya when I come up and I look at my own securities and

I hear that voice, who do you say I am, man? Cause if you say I am who the Bible says I am, then you should have no problem here. And on your, on your site, um, your kind of avatar or your like sort of graphic is like this kind of faceless man with the glasses and your tagline is really, uh, you know, I am nothing, right. Which is, which I interpret as just this sort of, you know, profession of humility, but I'm interested in where that comes from. That comes from John three 30 that says, um, he must increase and I must decrease. And you know, when you say humility, rich, it's funny. Cause I was thinking about that. Cause I think that about you. Um, and you don't ever even have to say it and you, you just, you exude humility. Um, and I think that about you. And you don't ever even have to say it. And you, you just, you exude

humility. And I think that's one of the things that I read that was the biggest theme for me reading your book. Rana said the same thing, but in the Bible, it never says be humble. It always says humble yourself. It's an action because we as humans are wired to not humble ourselves, to be in the spotlight. I want the attention regardless of how many causes I try to have people look at. So I just want to make sure that I humble myself before Christ because those verses work. Cause he humbled himself every day by coming down here and being with us. Um, you know, a lot of people think like, ah, Jesus died on the cross for your sins, but dude, every day he woke up and died to himself, um, for, for me and for you and for other people. So, um, and the, uh, the other thing is the, am nothing and the faceless thing is, dude, you're the first one to pick up on that.

What do you mean? The faceless, like, no, just my glasses. Right. And that correlation, it's just funny because they go together. Yeah, of course they do. Yeah, so, but you are the first person that has ever. Well, maybe I'm, I'm sure other people see that. Well, yeah, but I mean, just like verbalize it to me.

Like, oh man, that's kind of cool. So anyway, dude. All right. Well, all right. Luke 920. Luke 920. It's on Instagram. It's Luke 920.

Luke 920 on Instagram. L-U-K-E 920. And then on Twitter, Luke 920. And I'm redoing my website. My blog is going to be, it's going to be much more streamlined, so it'll make sense. But all my links are on my website. Cool. And Amina Project.

Aminaproject.org. You can find links there too. A-M-E-E-N-A. Yeah. Check them out, man. Facebook too. All the stuff is on my social media sites. Cool.

Cool, man. All right, man. All right, dude. Love you. Boom. We did it. Right on. All right, dude. Love you. Boom. We did it right on. All right. Peace plants. All right, everybody. That's our show. How'd it go for you? Tell me what you think. Let me know

in the comment section at rich world.com on the episode, uh episode page for this particular episode. And why don't you just go and let Christian know on his social media as well. And don't forget to give us a review on iTunes if it feels right to you. I'm not saying give us a five-star review. Just tell me what you think. Let us know there. Again, if you're stuck or frustrated with your life and not sure how to get off the dime, check out my new course, The Art of Living with Purpose on mindbodygreen.com. We have that iOS app, iPhone, iPad app coming soon for the podcast. We're in the final stages of just tweaking it a little bit. And it's going to be up pretty much.

I guess it has to go through the whole like Apple approval process thing. But hopefully we'll have that done pretty soon and up to you guys. I'll keep you posted. Next week, I'm going to be back with Julie on the podcast. A quick little note. I've gotten messages from a couple of people saying, where are all the women? It's a dude fest on your show. I'm aware of that. I actually have a bunch of interviews with some really cool women, females coming up soon. So I'm aware that it's been a little while since I've had a cool woman on the show. And I just want to let everybody know that we got lots of great women coming up. I'm on top of it. Anyway, after Beirut, I'm off to Saudi Arabia. I got three cities I'm going to go to there for public

speaking. I'm going to be in Jeddah, Riyadh, and Al-Kabar. And I'll post Julie's episode from there and let you know what it's like in that part of the world. The conversation I had with Julie is a really great one. Lots of stuff about gratitude and a lot of helpful information on that. So look forward to that. That'll be going up late. My plan is to get that up again late Sunday night. That's it. I want to support the show. Tell a friend. You know what to do.

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Thanks, you guys. I'll check back in with you in a few days when I get to Saudi Arabia. And until then, do something that scares you. You might just surprise yourself. Peace. Plants. Alliance.