The Rich Roll Podcast - Cultivating Conscious Relationships: Julie Piatt On The Evolution Of Long-Term Love

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

How can you consciously evolve long-term relationships? Returning to answer this question and other spiritual, romantic, and philosophical inquiries is the high priestess herself, Julie Piatt. Longtime listeners are well-acquainted with my wife’s mystical ways with wisdom, but if this is your first introduction to the one who goes by SriMati, she is an accomplished yogi, musician, chef, and mom to our four children. She’s also the bestselling author of three vegan cookbooks, hosts the For The Life of Me Podcast, provides spiritual counsel via her Water Tiger community, and is the founder & CEO of SriMu, the best and only plant-based cheese you need to concern yourself with. Today’s conversation centers on intimacy in relationships. Through the lens of our twenty-three years together we discuss how to intentionally evolve a long-term relationship beyond calcified habits, routines, expectations, and projections—and summon the courage to truly see and allow yourself to be seen by and with your partner. We also discuss lessons learned from the front lines of start-up entrepreneurship through Julie’s SriMu adventures—plus thoughts on Wilco, Memphis, and more. But at its core, this exchange is about redefining how we relate to our loved ones so that we can experience the best of our relationships.  Special SriMu Offer: In a gesture of gratitude for listening and watching, Julie is kindly offering a special discount on her SriMu plant-based cheese. Visit SriMu.com and enter code RRPFAM13 to receive your 13th box FREE when you sign up for an annual subscription to any of SriMu’s 8-box offerings. You can also receive 22% OFF the new Ceremony Box which includes two 8-ounce Maclay chocolate mousse cakes, SriMu’s newest and first dessert offering, with the code MACLAY22. Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: Timeline Nutrition: TimelineNutrition.com/RICHROLL Indeed: Indeed.com/RICHROLL Birch: birchliving.com/RICHROLL Inside Tracker: InsideTracker.com/RICHROLL Whoop: whoop.com/RICHROLL Momentous: LiveMomentous.com/RICHROLL Roka: Roka.com/RICHROLL Plant Power Meal Planner: https://meals.richroll.com Peace + Plants, Rich

Everyone that I know is in a pivotal moment of transformation. It doesn't matter what stage of life you're in, but I think giving ourselves the permission to recommit and redefine what is the relationship is great freedom. It's not necessarily comfortable or easy, but isn't that in fact our mission to know each other? Why else are we together? It has been profound what we have experienced as a couple.

In honoring that, our relationship deserves our presence and to see what is waiting for us to rediscover and uncover. It's a whole new slate. It's a whole new canvas. I think the possibilities are endless. Today is all about intimacy. We're going to talk about intimacy in relationships. How to evolve a long-term relationship beyond calcified habits and routines, expectations and projections.

and projections, and instead summon the courage to truly see your partner and allow yourself to be seen by your partner. Plus, we're going to talk about lessons learned from the front lines of startup entrepreneurship. And we're going to do this through the lens and through the experience of my wife and our 23 years together, the most recurring guest in the history of this podcast, Julie Piot. Long-time listeners are well acquainted with Julie's mystical ways with wisdom, but if this happens to be your first introduction to the one who goes by Srimati, what you need to know is that she is a truly multi-talented and multi-dimensional being. She's a yogi, musician, chef, designer, author,

mom of four, and the founder and CEO of Shreemu, the best and only plant-based cheese you need to concern yourselves with. Julie is graciously gifting all of you guys with a special deal on Shreemu. When you sign up for an annual subscription to any of Shreemu's eight box offerings at shreemu.com, she's kindly rewarding you with the 13th box free when you use the code RRPFAM13 at checkout, as well as 22% off the brand new ceremony box, which includes two eight ounce mcclay chocolate mousse cakes trimu's newest and first dessert offering when you use the code mcclay22 m-a-c-l-a-y 22 at checkout at shreemoo.com all right let's get into it hi julie pott first of all. Hello, Rich Roll.

Thanks for coming in. Can I just hold your hand across this table? Both hands? Yeah, I mean, I'm a little close on the mic, though. There you go. Now it's been a long time that we've been 12 feet away across the universe. No, I mean the RRP table. Oh, yes.

Yeah, exactly. The last time you were here, the table was still long, right? Yeah, this is the first time. Okay. I'm feeling very intimate. Well, I always enjoy having you on, the most frequent guest in the history of the podcast. And while I was in Atlanta at this Running Man event,

which I'll share about in a minute, lots of people coming up to say that their favorite episodes are the ones with you. Same in Memphis. Oh, that's sweet. I appreciate that. And typically we begin these conversations with a bunch of hand wringing

around the lead up to the conversation and me pestering you about finding time to sit down so we can hash out what we're gonna talk about. But I didn't do that this time. So you should be proud of me. This is trust. You didn't do it. This is intimacy, Julie.

Yeah, you didn't do it last time, but you really didn't do it this time. Yeah, I really didn't. No, you really didn't. I very intentionally let it go. Like you didn't even give me a look. It wasn't even like a look, like have you thought about

what you're gonna talk about on my show? Right now I'm tempted to say, have you? But I didn't, I'm not saying that, even though I kind of just did. Yeah, definitely. No, I have, but I'm just open to what the moment will present. So how are we doing?

I think we're doing pretty well, don't you? I think so. We're at an interesting moment in our marriage and our relationship. How would you describe this moment? I think it's a transitionary phase. We're in a semi new space with two of our two youngest out of the house.

The boys still live with us, but they're like roommates because they're older. And so now we're liberated from having to pick people up wherever or cook lots of food for lots of different people. It's quieter at the house, but suddenly it's like, oh, hey, who are you? We don't have to be the transportation department anymore. Right, exactly.

And so I think there's a process of trying to get to know each other in a new and different way that has presented itself, which is an opportunity, but also a little scary. We've been together for 23 years. Is that the number? Yeah. I mean, we started dating in 99. Yeah, that's true. 23 years. So.

Pretty amazing. How are you feeling about everything? I'm feeling great, actually, about it. I think it's a moment of, and, you know, listen, every parent, every couple that has kids that are listening to this, you know, you guys all know the drill. Yeah, the empty, well, what it's like when you have the kids and your relationship sort of becomes about, you know, the MTA, like who's picking up who and who's getting what. And it becomes very, not necessarily transactional, but logistical in nature. Yeah, definitely.

I mean, can, can. It can. It can. Yes. But I think apart from that, I mean, apart from that, because that does not define our entire relationship. I mean, we're not really a couple that's been mired in who's picking who up so much. No, but you know, it's, it is a, you know, complicated decision tree on days about like who's going where, when, and how are they going to get there and all that kind of stuff.

Like that does, that can predominate at times and it has throughout, you know, the kids being younger. I mean, I think we've done a good job of making sure that our relationship isn't all about that, but obviously we're both sympathetic to what that's like for parents who are raising kids and, you know, they have needs and places they need to go and all that kind of stuff.

And so your relationship can become out of balance and overly kind of capitalized by those types of conversations at the cost of what brought you together in the first place. Yeah, definitely. I do. I feel like what we're experiencing is something

much deeper than that. It's more an opportunity of recommitting in a new way and of understanding that we've experienced many, many things in 23 years that include children and creative projects and experiences of life and loss of life and, you know, all the things that are in a lifetime of 23 years. And I think that we are for many different reasons in a place of redefining what that commitment is. And I think that one of the exciting things is that we have come to a point of understanding that in order to move through, so that there is no way out, there is only through. to basically burn or transmute that entire relationship of those unspoken agreements or expectations or projections of what each other have been, of what we've been to each other, in order to make room for something new. And so, you know, the Julian Rich that, you know, has been chronicled on this podcast for all the years of the podcast for 10 plus years, that relationship is complete. It's been fulfilled in that form. And so one of the great things that I think that is really exciting is that we are going into deeper layers of our relationship

and where we might transcend, evolve, and become from this point forwards. And for me, that's not, oh, the kids have been in, we've been taking them places. That's a very- Yeah, I understand. But that is kind of like a benchmark where you can plant a flag and easily see a demarcation line

between what was before and what is to come. Definitely. And it's a dynamic that is equal parts exciting, but also terrifying because it is forcing me to get out of my comfort zone and the comfortable kind of ruts and routines that just make life go easy and to offer up like a deeper level of honesty and sharing with you,

which is scary, cause I kind of like things the way they are easy and it's fine. And you're like, I wanna know all of you. And I was like, do you really? I don't know if you really do. I don't know if I wanna share, like, what does that mean? So there is a, I have a built in default setting

that makes me recoil when you present me with that. But I also recognize the opportunity and I don't want to, and I'm very aware that a relationship is never static, just like anything, like you're either moving towards each other or away from each other. And we're faced with a choice right now because we can't just stay the way that we've always been.

If we do that, it is a vote for decay. And I don't want to decay and I don't want to be divorced from you or separated from you. I do wanna move towards you, but- Just not that deeply. Yeah. Like maybe a little bit. We'll see. We'll see how that goes. I'll dip my toe in that. Yeah, we laugh, but it is true. It's a little scary for me. And you're so good about creating creating ritual and kind of symbolism around that

to really infuse that decision or this conversation with a deeper level of intentionality that makes it more three-dimensional than just like, well, we talked about that and we'll see how it goes, right? Like we did a fire ceremony. So maybe you can walk through that. I mean, the importance of ritual

and what ritual means to you is something we've talked about in the past on the podcast. So I don't wanna necessarily retread that, but I think there is something to be said for investing in the pause necessary so that a decision and a new way forward can plant its roots so that it becomes more capable of fruiting, I guess.

Of fruiting? Yeah. That's the first time I've heard that word in a very long time. Well, if you want fruit, you need roots, right? Of fruiting, people. Yeah. If your roots aren't good, the fruit is not gonna ripen. But I mean, where this came from is, you know,

first of all, you know, a point in evolution, but I was telling you that one of the most beautiful moments that I ever gazed upon you was after- Go on. What is it? Do you have like a more- Continue. Do you have a more intellectual word for gazed upon you?

No, I'm like, continue. Do you want to throw out a fancy word? No, I'm saying like, this is my ego likes this. So please continue. Okay. Was when, after you had finished Ultraman, that famous race where I was your crew captain, you were just stripped bare of everything that burdens you, that chases you, that haunts you, that makes you run away from me, that makes you run away from life or people. And you were just

raw. And in that state, you were just a sight of such beauty. And what I shared with you recently was that I want to know you at that level, and I want to be known at that level. And I told you, I'm coming for you. So it's not like, you know, it's not like, you know, you can just run away and hide because I'm asking for presence is what I'm asking. I'm asking to be courageous enough to sit with me and see me in my presence, even though it scares you, even though we may discover something that we don't know about each other or that we haven't shared yet. And it's hard to imagine that we could be together 23 years and there could still be aspects of ourself that we haven't shared. But I think that that's true. I think that we all are hiding something or never felt comfortable revealing something. And it's really a focus because what

you were really speaking to when you were talking about picking up and is it's losing the presence of your relationship to a routine and it's easy to it's easier to not be present right it can sometimes be a lot easier to distract yourself and you know it's i'm busy it's work or there's netflix or there's training or there's you know or there's training, or there's, you know, and it's not just you, it's just whatever it is in life. And for me, it's like, you know, if you think that we may be alive 20 more years, neither one of us took vows or got into this relationship so that we could sit on the couch and say we've arrived. Like that hasn't been the theme of our relationship. And even in the way that we come to this table in stripes,

you know, it's demonstrated in the jacket that you have on and the stripes that I have on. We're very different beings. We're from very, very different perspectives. And the beauty of that is when we can come together and that friction creates the alchemy. That's the beauty of that is when we can come together and that friction creates the alchemy. That's the beauty of this relationship. And so really the question is, what else is there for us to discover? And do we have the courage to go there even though it may

reveal something new, something different? And I feel like a lot of people right now in relationships are going through this very process. So I think it's very exciting. I mean, we definitely have been a lot more intimate and connected than we've been in years. And, you know, it's sort of like a whole new frontier. It's a whole new slate. It's a whole new canvas. And so I think the possibilities are endless and I'm coming for you. See, it's terrifying. What am I supposed to do with that?

You're coming for me? No, I don't mean that. Like it's like a threat. No. I'm coming for you and I'm gonna know you and you're gonna know me. And I'm like, okay. Like it's like a threat. No. I'm coming for you and I'm gonna know you and you're gonna know me and I'm like, okay. What about that scares you? I don't know, I just, I think, I am.

You like to be unknown. It's not that I like to be unknown. There is a resistance to, or just like sort of a zone of privacy that feels like a comfort zone that I'm reluctant to forsake. Well, you'll still have privacy. But it doesn't have to be like, I'm coming for you. Like you're like, I'm gunning for you.

Well, no, I mean, that can be a beautiful thing. It can be a romantic thing. It's not like an annihilation thing, right? Yeah. So, I mean, from your side, what is it that you wanna know about me? Or what is it? Like, or do you have the same-

Now I'm really on the spot. Desire. No, here's the thing, hold on, excuse me. Of course, like I do think that we have been in, kind of an extended period of habituation to a norm and our relationship, no relationship can survive that. Like if you don't change, then you will be changed. And that, a relationship is not immune from that.

So I'm very cognizant of the need to elevate, you know, the way that we interact with each other. And I'm deeply aware that I wanna be with you. I don't wanna be without you. I don't wanna be away from you. I wanna be with you. I don't wanna be without you. I don't wanna be away from you. I wanna be with you. Would you even say you wanna be close to me? Would you say that you want to know me?

Yeah, as long as I get to like, as long as I get to like retreat to my corner occasionally and like, you know, charge my battery up. Dude, you sleep in a tent. I have my own private quarters. Like it's a whole, you know, charge my battery up. Dude, you sleep in a tent. I know. I have my own private quarters. Like it's a whole, you know, psychologist wet dream to try to figure out that whole thing, right? So we'll see how it goes.

I'm game for it. You know, I'm looking forward to it. It's already paid dividends in terms of our connection. I think we have a long, I feel good. I feel much closer to connection. I feel good. I feel much closer to you. I feel aligned with you. I feel, I mean, it feels really good to just celebrate you, like to just go to Memphis and it's about you and Shreemu.

And that's the only reason that I'm there. And I'm not trying to like sneak off and check my phone or make it about me or any of the kind of character defects that typically crop up that involve my ego and insecurities. And it was beautiful to just be in reverence of you and in celebration of what you've achieved in this vision that you have. And I think, I definitely want more of that.

And I know that you are like, in terms of like, what are our needs and our needs being met, right? And what are the wounds that we both bring into this equation that flare up when those needs aren't getting met and understanding those and anticipating how to make sure that each other's needs are getting met so that we can relax into each other and that intimacy becomes a comfortable place

as opposed to a scary place that I find myself throwing walls up against. So the intimacy is what's scary. And that's where the treasure is. That's where the treasure lies. So- Until you, until you, until you- What do you think happens in there?

Like, what do you think happens in there? No, cause that's the fear. The fear is if you really know me, you will run in the other direction because I am fundamentally broken and unlovable. And so I front a certain way to be a certain person who can create the appearance of lovability. And to some level, I can sustain that,

but I have to retreat into my corner to charge the battery because that requires a lot of energy. It takes so much energy. Yeah, it takes a lot of energy, right? So when you drop all of that and you're like, well, this is who I am, that's terrifying because there is something deep down that feels like if you really knew me, like you would find me repulsive.

But in the knowing you is where the true intimacy is. And without shadow- So you say. No, without shadow, there really isn't any love. And I mean, I can share this one experience recently, which was quite enlightening for me. And that is that we had a date night. We went to the movies and we went to one of those places

where it's like reclining and you can order food and the whole thing. And so when we get to our seats, I realized that you have bought two seats that are not together. It's like, you know, let me just say, let me just tell him he bought two seats. You know how, when you go in the theater, you have two that are together. It's like, there's, they're a pair, right? But what he did is he bought like the left side and the right side right side of two pairs and so i'm sitting there and there's this huge like hard space between us and i'm like dude like what why did you buy this seat like like and you're like no i did this on purpose because i need to sit in the middle of the theater because this is where I want to sit.

I need to sit like ever so slightly to the left of center. Because I have, all right, go ahead. No, so after a minute, I take a breath. Which is insane, I understand. I take a breath and then I'm thinking to myself, okay, wow, I can't believe he did this. And then I'm like, so I say, honey, I'm gonna go to the front and I'm gonna see if they can switch my seat because I want to sit next to him. I don't

want to hold hands with him across a table. So I go to the front and the woman moves the seat and I come to him and I said, she moved us to the right. So it means he had to move into the pair to the right. And you were completely annoyed and you're like, now I'm not sitting in the middle. And this is a problem. And what I realized is that that has something to do with your lazy eye and your sight. And so you shared with me in that experience, that the world is skewed for you a little bit all the time, and you have to correct for it. But literally, that was the first time I ever understood that after 23 years of being with you. And what it did was it made me love you more. It made me understand why you made that decision.

And I was like, oh my God, like he's compensating for that instead of me feeling like, what is wrong with this dude? Like, why would he choose that? Well, there's two parts to it. One is the crazy part, which is like I have this weird OCD thing about like symmetry and like I wanna be in the center seat and have it like, everything has to be like a Wes Anderson movie

where everything is perfectly aligned on each side. But because my left eye is so weak, I have to be a little bit to the left because of the way my eyes work. So even though I be a little bit to the left because of the way my eyes work. So even though I'm a little bit to the left of center, I perceive it as being in the center. And that's the neurological piece that I had never shared with you,

but kind of, I carry with me. You had never even shared really the OCD part with me. I was watching, so I was watching the David Beckham documentary, which I know you watched and it's fantastic for anybody who hasn't seen it on Netflix. So it's a beautifully rendered four part series. But the parts, particularly like in the later episodes where he's showing, he's showing everybody his wardrobe and how he like organizes all of his clothes and all of that.

And I was like, see that guy, that's how I think. Like that's, I do the exact same thing. You're like, see, I'm a champion. He's sort of like embarrassed. Yeah, and I don't like wanna talk about that because there's something wrong with me, you know? No, it's something amazing. I mean, it's something.

So anyway. I mean, I think it's- Is this bringing us together? Yeah. Do you amazing. So, anyway. I mean, I think it's... Is this bringing us together? Yeah. Do you feel... Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is the definition of intimacy. It's like, because if you're hiding something and you're not, you know, I mean, it only brings more intimacy and connection.

That's all there is in there. And that's what presence brings. So, I really appreciate and I really like that you shared that with me. and that's all there is in there. And that's what presence brings. So I really appreciate, and I really like that you shared that with me and it doesn't make me think, oh, he's crazy or I don't think that at all. There's a lot more weirdness where that came from.

We can go all the way, we can go down there. It might be a huge relief. So what would you say or recommend to, somebody who's watching or listening who is- Finds himself. Who is sort of finding themselves in a relationship where it's somewhat stagnant and there is that yearning for deeper intimacy.

Like how does one who isn't as practiced in this, embark upon that or raise it with their partner? Well, I mean, I think it's having the desire is the most important thing. It's not like I'm an expert at it. I haven't digested it and been through it. I think when you agreed with me that you wanted to do this with me,

I wrote the outline of a book and sent it to you like within six hours. Yeah. There's not a lot of recommended books. No, no, not of my own book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then, um, and then also I'm, I'm exploring some sexuality books that I don't, I'm not going to share right now because I haven't digested them and I'm finding that they're a little off base, but they have, they have some core practices that I think will be useful. So like we're designing, I'm designing a protocol. No, I'm designing a protocol for us and we'll see like how, how it, how it goes, you know, what works for us. I mean, we're very, very good actually in a room together.

Like we don't really need a facilitator. You know, we do pretty well together if we're both willing and if we're both present. A facilitator, like you mean like a therapist? Yeah, like a therapist. Or are you talking about like- A sex therapist. Like somebody standing there when we're trying to like have-

No, I don't, just anything like- I'm trying to visualize what you mean. I just meant like a therapist. Like we just, you know, we have really good communication skills and we've, you know, we've done a pretty good job, you know, communicating in our relationship. And I mean, the thing,

this thing that we went through is largely connected to COVID. So it was also that polarization that we were playing it out in our own marriage. And luckily, we were wise enough and loving enough that we stayed together through that. Because you're a wide stripe suit guy, and I'm a poncho striped, you know, tablecloth girl. So, you know, that was a very, that was the challenge. And, and I would say more so than driving kids around. I, I really think it was that moment on the planet where everything was being polarized. And so I just want to recognize us that we are here and that we found our way to stay together. So, you know, I don't know what I would say really to all of us, because, you know, everyone that I know is in a pivotal moment of transformation.

It doesn't matter what stage of life you're in. But I think giving ourselves the permission to recommit, to recommit and like redefine what is the relationship is great freedom. And, you know, the only thing to fear is fear itself because there is no way out. There's only through. And, you know, I love you so deeply and I know you love me so deeply. And, you know, I love you so deeply and I know you love me so deeply. There's no other way. You know, there's not walking away. There's no walking away. We have to go deeply into each other and really see what's there and create something new that will provide the next evolution for, let's say, the next 23 years. for, let's say, the next 23 years.

And it's not necessarily comfortable or easy, but isn't that, in fact, our mission to know each other? If we're going to be in relationship, isn't that, in fact, the true desire to know you deeply and to be known deeply? I mean, why else are we together? Out of habit or out of an agreement or out of some social construct? I don't think that's why we're together.

I don't think it's ever been why we're together. And the proof of that has been this podcast and, you know, what is birthed out of our experience together. I mean, I told you during these discussions of recent, you know, I will never do what I did with you with anyone else. And you will never do what you did with me with anyone else. It has been profound what we have experienced as a couple. I think our relationship deserves our presence and to see what is next, what is waiting for us to rediscover and uncover. Yeah, that's beautiful.

I'm with you for that whole thing. Awesome. As scary as it may be for me, As scary as it may be for me. But I don't want to know what the alternative to that is. Thank you. And also, thank you for your presence in that. And thank you for meeting me and saying yes.

Because there's a lot of men that wouldn't. So thank you for being willing and being there for me. And being able to say, no, I'm here. You know, I'm right here. It means a lot. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety.

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All right. Well, what is the moment presenting for you right now? Just your cuteness and, you know, the Wilco t-shirt. Can we talk about Wilco? Sure. I mean, I just saw, we took Trapper to the Ace Theater to see Wilco for his, it was his 27th birthday.

And you are a hardcore Wilco fan. For sure. I was familiar with some of the most popular songs. I have never been so ambushed by a musical act in my life in the way of the sort of unassuming way they slid onto the stage and they're singing, you know, what I would say is just sort of maybe calm music. I don't know, just sort of very chill music. No, just wait. But then they ended up taking me on this journey that literally slayed me creatively. Like I have never seen a

band play at that level. And it was just so unassuming. It was, you know, there wasn't like explosions, not that I like explosions, but it was very subtle, you know, in the way that it came about. And I just became a gigantic Wilco fan. I was absolutely slayed. Better late than never. Yeah, better late than never. As I told the boys that night,

I think going to see Wilco live is one of the last vestiges of authentic Gen X, of an authentic Gen X experience. Like the crowd was definitely, you know, like of the older ilk, a lot of silver haired guys. And I think Jeff Tweedy is exactly my age, but he's, you know, listen, singer songwriter of a generation surrounded by some of the most masterful musicians

on the planet who just crush, you know? So yeah, it's quite the experience. I definitely wanna get Jeff Tweedy on the podcast. He has this, well, he has a book about to come out, but I think he passed through LA and I missed the moment while he was here in town. But there are solutions around that, that we said. And actually, interesting enough,

one of my team members, June Kim, became friendly with the bassist's wife. And so I've already sent them Shreemu. So I hope Shreemu is finding them on tour. So Wilco is consuming. Consuming Shreemu. I hope so. I hope so.

I mean, I'd be honored. Marco is consuming. Consuming treatment. I hope so. I hope so. I mean, I'd be honored. It was just really such a beautiful, deep, creative, original, everything about them was just extraordinary. So anyway.

It's heartwarming to hear you say that. Cause I didn't know, as you said, I've been a fan for a long time, but I didn't know that it would connect with you. Somebody told me that Wilco had actually played at the radio station there. So one of the guitar players is good friends with the founder of the radio station in Crosstown Concourse, which is the vertical community in Memphis, Tennessee, where Shreemu has just opened up her first flagship wine and cheese cafe. In addition, it's where all my production exists now. So it is our home in Memphis, Tennessee, and Crosstown is a vertical community. It's 1,500,000 square feet, the size of the Empire State Building on its side. And it is just at the forefront of all things beautiful in life, artists in residency, music, listening libraries, recording studios, performance theaters, a New Thought High School,

healthcare for 80,000 people, the working uninsured, and much, much more. Also Global Cafe run by refugee women. And Shreemu, in my opinion, has one of the premier spots. It was spot 13, and it's just at the base of this beautiful spiral red modern staircase. So when you walk up the staircase, you're in a gorgeous museum that's like a MoMA level museum, also leading to the performance theater and green room and art bar. And then at the base of the stairs is where Shereme Wine and Cheese Cafe is now open and ready for a new life. Yeah, congratulations.

Thank you so much. It was my first visit to Memphis. So I just got back from Memphis and then an event in Atlanta called Running Man that I'll talk about, but we were all in Memphis to celebrate the opening of your flagship there. And you had told me like, you're not gonna understand Crosstown Concourse until you visit it.

You can look at the photos, you can go online, you can understand it. But until you're actually there, like the scale of it is impossible to translate, you know, through the phone or whatever. And that was certainly the case. Like it is a magnificent structure, but also I think what struck me the most was the people behind the vision,

the vision that they held for it and what they were able to manifest against all odds. Because typically a structure like that, I mean, this building was originally a Sears and Roebuck distribution facility. Sears had multiple of these across the country, something like, I don't know, six or 10 of them where they would ship out all their products

across the United States. And in the case of the facility in Memphis, there's a train track that runs right behind it where they would load all this stuff onto the train right out of the back. And this structure went fallow in the wake of Sears going under in the 90s and was decrepit and falling down

and was purchased by Staley Cates, who we met for, I don't know what, like $2 million, something like that. No, I think it was 3.2 million. And everybody told him he was crazy. There's nothing you could do with this. And he ended up connecting with this guy, Todd Richardson, who is an art professor,

has like a PhD or a graduate degree in I think Renaissance art. But that combination of those two individuals created something very unique, which was taking this property and translating it into a symbol for a future Memphis. Because Memphis, of course, has a very colorful and interesting history.

When we think about Memphis, we think about music, we think about the civil rights movement, but all of that is looking in the rear view mirror and nobody was looking into the future and saying, what could Memphis be? Or what is the vision for the Memphis that we would like be or what is the vision for the Memphis that we would like to, you know, sort of give to future generations. And that's the vision that kind of infused what went into creating this project and the fact that it is a nonprofit that's really about the arts. Like the arts is at the center of this, the performing arts theater, it's all run by a nonprofit because typically something like that, best case scenario,

it just gets turned into a massive mall and it's about maximizing square feet for revenue. And this is not that in any way, shape or form. No, it's incredible. And it's only like five years old, which is one of the reasons why I just feel really honored that they welcomed me in to take this really beautiful space. But the facility or the community is like 95% leased. And so, you know, they have residential, you know, on the upper floors.

They have, you know, Church Health, which is 150,000 square feet. Church Health has 28 dental chairs and they can do a crown in an hour and a half. Wow. It's unbelievable. And there's a YMCA that's massive. That's right. Church Health has YMCA connected to it. They have a pool.

They have a dog park. They have a teaching kitchen also. Exactly. Yeah. They have a teaching kitchen. So Shreem is looking forward to partnering with them. And also we've been talking to Maggie Baird from Support and Feed.

And, you know, just be really, really awesome to just feed the community out of those kitchens and, you know, just share life. So it's really super cool. Yeah, it's very cool. It is a place of, you place of creativity for sure, right? And the fact that Shreemu is right at the base of that extraordinary red circular staircase

just is like chef's kiss. Like what you did with the cafe, the design, everything about it is so elegant and it was beautiful to have that reception and have so many people come out to celebrate this new thing. And listen, it's hard to move your business to a state and a city where you don't really know anyone

and then throw a party and expect anybody to show up. Cause you were like, I was like, I don't know who to call. I have nobody I can call. I was like, call someone. I don't know anybody here, but you've been so supported by business leaders Nobody I can call. I was like, call someone. I don't know anybody here. But you've been so supported by business leaders in that community who really showed up for you and the turnout was really something special.

And I mean, one thing that I, I feel like this trip, I really sort of put down some of my roots. I mean, obviously I did open the cafe, but also rented an amazing home that I actually fell in love with that took me back to my youth. It was an amazing home, and it reminded me of an architectural home that I grew up in in Alaska because my childhood friend, Terry Meyer, her family lived in a Lautner. And so I spent many of my adolescent years listening to Elton John smoking pot and like, you know, doing gymnastics in this amazing home that had an indoor atrium. It was on a lake and it had, you know, the big stone

floors and also built-ins. Everything was built in, all the couches, all the upholstery. And it just has this vibe to it. You know, it's like the big Lebowski, you know, famous house that, you know, everybody knows from that movie. So this house definitely had some of that vibe in a big way. And when I picked you and Tyler up from the airport, you know, I was like, I'm in the most beautiful home I've ever seen in my life. And, you know, it's in Memphis, like that just makes no sense whatsoever. So there was a lot of stuff that was sort of on a 60year cycle. And also my opening was on a solar eclipse. The Ring of Fire. Yeah, a new moon solar eclipse. It was called the Ring of Fire. And when I arrived in Memphis,

one of my teammates, Aaron, reminded me that the song Ring of Fire was recorded in Tennessee in 1961. So there was just a lot of magic and so many people from the community in Memphis came up to me and thanked me for being there. It was really fun to see them freak out over Shreemu. They were just devouring it and completely loving the product. And, you know, Memphis is a very sacred place. The lands are very sacred, the aquifers, the trees, and the peoples. And so people go to Memphis to create something new, and we've been welcomed to be a part of that. And I'm just very, very honored and excited about what that's going to be in my life and in our lives.

The other trip about Memphis is the parallel with Egypt because obviously there's a Memphis in Egypt. And if you're paying attention and driving around Memphis, you will see statues of Ramses. And not only are there statues of Ramses, this sort of note or ode to the other Memphis, there's an actual pyramid. There is like a giant mirrored pyramid that's bigger than you might think it is

right in the middle of the city that I think at one point was, or it was originally like a music venue or a sports venue, but now it is the headquarters. It is like the flagship store for Bass Pro Shops. When you go in there, the ceiling is like, I don't know, 300 feet high or whatever it is. And it's almost like an amusement park in there.

Like we had to go and visit cause I was like, I have to see this place. It's a thing, certainly a thing. Yeah, and Ramsey's the second statue also at University of Memphis and there's no accident. Definitely there is a mystical connection to Egypt and Memphis, Egypt was the capital when it was at its height. So also not an accident that, you know, in the recent years I've been traveling to Egypt. So I'm in, I'm connected in Memphis,

Egypt and Memphis, Tennessee. So we'll see what, what comes of it, but something is, something is afoot for sure. Yeah. The other cool thing about Crosstown that I experienced was that right above your space is like right upstairs from where you are is that art museum, but there's also creative offices. And I met this filmmaker, Craig Brewer, who houses his production office just above you, like literally right above you.

And he's the guy who wrote and directed a film called Hustle and Flow, which in many ways is sort of an archetypal film about Memphis. He's done other things. He created that TV show Terriers on FX. And he's worked with Eddie Murphy quite a bit, I think he did Coming to America too,

the second Coming to America movie. Dolomite is my name, Black Snake Moon. And just a filmmaker that I followed his career for a long time. Like I remember when Hustle and Flow came out, that was a big deal. Big kind of like independent Sundance film that launched Terrence Howard's career.

And I was thinking about that movie as I was traveling to Memphis, which was a city I'd never been to before, because that's sort of the cinematic footnote that I have in my mind about Memphis. And then it was so wild. It was like, oh, he's actually here. And we were up in his office talking to him.

It was crazy. Yeah, it's amazing. There's so much creativity oozing out of that community. And Crosstown is, yeah, everything that they're doing is at the highest level. So it's like, you know, it's very, very well executed on every level. as an entrepreneur who moved their entire business from where we live to a city where you didn't really know anyone. What were some of the lessons that you learned or obstacles that you had to confront and overcome to accomplish that?

Well, I would say that it was definitely harder than I imagined, which is probably a good thing because it gives you sort of this naive, maybe luck that makes you make these decisions to do these things. I think the biggest thing that I learned is that early on in my company, I was leading more as a mother. You know, I have a lot of people around me and want my children to have everything, you know, not only my own children, but sort of everyone that I'm working with. And I think early on in a company's, you know, birth and inception, it's appropriate, like it, it actually works. It's sort of like everybody's doing everything. And it's a little

bit more like a family. And then when you move into a place where you really have to scale, it, I really can't leave that way. So I had, you know, the entrepreneurial, you know, hard school of Knox of learning how to, you know, step into really being the mother of Shreemu as my ultimate, you know, focus and understanding that, you know, the business requires a certain level of responsibility that, you know, that is necessary to ensure her life. And so that was, you know, I had wished that some of my LA team would have gone to Crosstown in Memphis and fallen in love and move there. That's maybe a, you know, a big wish. It's a lot to ask someone. It's a lot to ask. But, you know, and so that didn't really

happen. And then it became very clear that the business is in Memphis. So even though during COVID we were working remote, like a lot of people, you know, we are, you know, we are a kitchen facility, a production facility, and all of the opportunity is there in Memphis. So, facility and all of the opportunity is there in Memphis. So, um, you know, we're building a team. We have an amazing crew right now. The quality of the cheese is phenomenal. And one of the challenges that I had is that Tennessee Ag, uh, wanted us to prove our, um, our, uh, expiration. So we were stuck in a three month holding pattern, holding pattern just for wholesale, not for subscription. But it's also good because we hired a food scientist and we now have even more, I would say, gold standards in place,

batching so that we could recall should anything happen. But really what was proven is just the amazing stability of Shremu. And it's just a very, very stable product. Right, which is why if you live in Los Angeles, it wasn't available at Erewhon for a period of time. But it's back, I've seen it everywhere. It's back, it's back. Yeah, and during that time also that I'm in Memphis,

we were waiting for our organic certification because we had to get moved to Memphis to do that. So there were many things like I have new products that are, you know, that we're going to be releasing. We have a butter that we're coming out with. It's phenomenal. It's the best thing you've ever had. And we have our first dessert that we launched Shreemu and we hosted a dinner in Malibu last month to unveil our first dessert, which is called the Maclay cake. And so we're shipping that right now

and it's just extraordinary cacao, almost like a cacao mousse with hints of cayenne and cinnamon and dates. And it's kind of amazing. It's cool. Yeah. How do you make those decisions around adding SKUs into the rotation?

Because I know you have a million recipes and formulations and you could just blow it out like tomorrow, but you have to be very careful about protecting, you know, the core brand and the core set of products. And you've seen a lot of companies who kind of too quickly start like ramping up all their SKUs and they lose focus. And there's a sort of undermining of brand identity and it can easily spiral out of control. So it has to be a measured decision. It does. I mean, I'd say that, you know,

I've been on a leash for the whole time we've been in LA. And so, and that's because I understand from being a fashion designer, you know, I made that mistake. You know, I created a hundred piece women's collection from sportswear to evening gowns. And, you know, it took me a while to understand that I was, you know, that there was no way that I could be profitable with that much variety. So I've kept a very streamlined and and, you know, of the eight flavors on our collection, they're all extraordinary. Like people say, pick your favorite. I can't really, I mean, they all stand on their own and they're all really, really strong. And I have other formulations that are extraordinary, equally as extraordinary. I have a mozzarella product that

is the best that I've ever tasted. And so, you know, we're also sort of ready to find the product, like the one, the thing that really, you know, sets us apart or maybe would be the thing that we could scale really gigantically. So the wheels are just here to stay. They're gorgeous. One of the best things about the opening was probably the most expensive thing in the space is the cold case. And I got like this really gigantic, like six foot cold case. And with all the cheese stocked in it, when I slid the door open and smelled it, I mean, it just smells like Paris. Like it's so cheesy and so much hits all those notes

that we love about dairy cheese. It's just extraordinary. I mean, it was really, really amazing. And what is it about, like from a business economic marketing perspective, And what is it about, like from a business, economic, marketing perspective, like what is it about being in Memphis that makes it better than being in Los Angeles? I just imagine somebody saying, well, I still don't understand why you moved here. I still don't understand.

Why you moved your whole operation. But I mean, even just if you just look at just straight business, which is not what Shreeming is at all, Memphis is in the top three cities to move your business to simply for cost, simply cost of operations and ease of operation. For me, really, Crosstown Concourse was the deciding factor because community is at the core of Shreemu. Like, I don't really care so much of having my cheese in a box in a store. You know, that's great. But what I really care about is the conversations that it ignites in people as they gather around a box of cheese. As you buy the box and you create a board.

And we're even coming out with a series of like, know inspirational questions or things to ponder uh because every box of shreemu potentially activates let's say 13 people it's all about community like i care so much more about that which is why i'm giving you guys a code no i don't mean i didn't mean to just segue right into that you're like arnold schwarzenegger would be very proud i'm you know his whole like sell sell sell chapter uh you know in in his book, like you're living it right now. But I mean, the thing is, is it's like, I really do want to foster subscriptions because subscription aligns us through this common thread and it is the community. like a secret menu only for subscribers or a subscription offering where you can pay a little more and get, you know, special recipes or healing techniques. The other thing that we're doing is we are integrating Water Tiger, which is my spiritual mentorship with Shreemu. So we're not

acting like, you know, we're not doing any of the things that food companies do, like, you know, get your cheese for the barbecue. Like, that's just not me. So what is me is, you know, caring deeply about, you know, sending a loved one off who has passed away and having a prayer or knowing how to create an altar or how to bless your food or how to nurture your child through the difficult years of adolescence. These type of things are core and being integrated into Shreemu. And so by fostering subscriptions, it allows us to join together around that messaging

and around those initiatives that most of us, you know, care very much about, at least the people that are eating what we call vibrational nourishment. And that's what Trimur is. Yeah, it's great. I mean, I know we all, like we buy products online and when you're purchasing, it's like,

click here to receive emails with discounts or whatever. And I never clicked those, but somehow I still end up getting all of those. And I spend 20 minutes a day deleting all the kind of marketing emails that come in. But there's a few that I actually like because those emails are really not about trying to sell you anything. They're branded, of course, but they're more like magazines or they have information that is thematically relevant to whatever product they're selling, but they're providing value beyond that. And so I think the sense of encouraging people

to subscribe to the newsletter, because yeah, you'll hear about whenever there's a sale or whatever, but it's more about like exploring like the, you know, just the lifestyle aspects that are meaningful to you, that you care about, that kind of infuse the product and are why you created it to begin with.

Yeah, definitely. And luckily, I have my ally in life, Mel Nahas, the founder of Conscious City Guide, who is also the producer of our Plant Power Retreats. And I have the wonderful privilege of sharing a friendship and she's my brand lead and also my ops lead right now. And she just gets me. And so she's never brand lead and also my ops lead right now. And she just gets me. And so she's never trying to compartmentalize

who I am in the food company. And some of the newsletters that we send out this month were just really exciting. They were about 52, who is this loneliest whale who has a different song than other whales. And scientists have been tracking this being and, you know, just bringing awareness to the whales and to the care of these magnificent beings

and, you know, sharing a documentary or sharing the soundbite. So these are the type of things. I mean, I have a dream. I'm gonna say this now, I have a dream. So I wanna just lay it out here, even though I'm way ahead of myself.

But when I went to the Arctic Circle last year, one of my Water Tiger members, Santrich, she gifted me a trip there for my birthday. And she took me to this resort called Lofoten. And I've never felt more alive or more on, just on fire in a good way, like lit up as I was in the Arcticctic circle I can't explain it it was something the coating coming off of the mountains the way you see dragons everywhere you look it was

just like a magical kingdom and I was drinking living tea like by a running river like Gandalf just out there in the fairyland and I went to a restaurant there and there were surprisingly three vegan options on the menu, but two whale options on the menu. And it just hit me so hard. And later I was at this surf camp, which is in Lofoten and all these beautiful young ones, you know, surfing in this freezing water. And they, you know, had some vegan options in their cafe. surfing in this freezing water and they, you know, had some vegan options in their cafe. But shortly after that, I said to Santris and Malie, who was my other friend, the other Water Tiger member that came with us, I said, you know, I want to open a Shreemu shack in Lofoten and I want to align with some of these surfers and teach them how to make shreemu and make a documentary like i want to

i want to go bring shreemu into the community and bring awareness to whales and sort of i don't know offer a plant-based alternative uh not not in a i mean this is something that is of their lineage right so it it's a very ancient um but the fact that these beings are still being slaughtered is just unimaginable. So it's a crazy dream that I have that I'll probably start on next year. It sounds like a Chris Burkhardt movie. Chris Burkhardt, are you listening?

Come to me. He's the perfect person. Come to me, let's do this together. You're such a beautiful artist. Yeah, I mean, let's do it. And this so such a beautiful artist yeah i mean let's do it and this is the type of thing that is exciting the other thing that's really exciting is i met the man and i'm forgetting his name and i'm sorry um he created a mobile uh clam like performance clam on a truck and it's 900 square feet and he'll take this venue on wheels anywhere.

So my next thing is Mel and I are planning a music, a Shreemu music festival next year. And it's this amazing venue on wheels. So not like a clam, like a mollusk, like a clamshell, like a stage. Yeah, like a Hollywood Bowl or whatever. Yeah, from Bugs Bunny. Yeah. I mean, it's epic and it's pretty new.

He just finished it in the last couple months. So it just opens up and you have an immediate portable stage. Exactly, wherever you wanna go. And there's this area called Shelby Farms in Shelby Forest, which is near Memphis. And it's a really beautiful area. And so, I don't know, I've got some, I've got a little inspiration going on.

So those are the two things that I'm so excited about for 2024. Yeah, it's cool. I'm super proud of you. I mean, it's been a long road to get to this place. Thank you. And it was nice to celebrate you and see the manifestation rot into three dimensions.

Thank you. Yeah. And it's just the beginning. Like now you can scale, you know, now you have a home, now you have a foundation, you've got a team and it's going to be really cool to see what evolves from there. Thank you, babe. Yeah. It was super sweet having you guys all there.

And yeah, I don't know. Like I said, it was um we are having dinner um we had a small dinner the night before with Tom Shadiac and Todd and Lee Richardson and Kemp and Ann Conrad and some of our team June and Hansa who came into health and um it just felt like all of a sudden we were kind of I was kind of getting settled because it's been difficult going to Memphis and not knowing anyone. And I have, like I would have a freak out sort of every time I went thinking like, what did I do?

Like, why did I sign a five-year lease here? But there is a really cool community of people. And for people that don't know, I mean, Tom Shadiac also was a big initial instigator of you being interested in this move because of what he's doing with Memphis Rocks. So for people that don't know, Tom is a legendary Hollywood filmmaker.

He made the lion's share of the huge, big comedies of the 90s with Jim Carrey from, I don't know, Bruce Almighty, Liar Liar, like some of them he produced, Ace Ventura, like all of the, he made all these huge movies. And then he had kind of an existential crisis when he reached the top of the mountain and went on this kind of search for meaning

and purpose in his life that led him to kind of divesting himself of all of his possessions, moving to Malibu, riding around on a bike, teaching at Pepperdine and making a documentary about this experience called I Am, which if you haven't seen it, we'll link it up in the show notes. It's like a must see, it's an incredible documentary. But he ultimately ended up moving to Memphis.

He left Los Angeles. He has family roots in Memphis. And he opened this thing called Memphis Rocks, which is, it's a nonprofit, right? It's set up as a nonprofit, but it's basically an indoor, it's a massive indoor climbing facility that is oriented around bringing in and supporting at-risk and disadvantaged

youth and teaching them outdoor and adventure skills and then taking them on expeditions. In fact, a bunch of the Memphis Rocks climbers just went out and climbed with Alex Honnold recently. I'll share some photos of that as well. Yeah, I was at dinner with Christine, who's one of the individuals. He's a beautiful film director, an amazing human and dear friend now. And he runs Memphis Rocks in some capacity.

But anyway, yeah, I was having dinner with him. And then he said, I just got back from climbing with Alex. So he showed me a picture and then I texted it to you. So it's funny. Yeah, it's super cool. And then they're going, like they do big expeditions on some of the big mountains, right? Yeah.

Like Kilimanjaro or I don't know. Yeah, and my lead investor, Tom Lawrence, who is the person who invested in me and created my whole spiritual raise and in the way that I wanted is why I'm in Memphis. Tom and his wife Ellie suggested I come check it out. And so Tom Lawrence is also on the board at Memphis Rocks. And also for anyone who's listening, this is just an amazing initiative. And it's not only a climbing gym, it's a community center. It offers these kids like a place to go, a place to be safe.

And, you know, Tom has spent, you know, a lot of his heart and soul and blood and sweat and money, but he's a beautiful, beautiful human being. And, you know, they are looking for support for that because it's a big initiative and needs more love and more nourishment. I have to get Tom on the podcast. You have to get Tom on the podcast. I went back and searched through all my emails to see when we first got introduced and it was 2014. Oh my God, that's so bad.

I was waiting for Shreemu to open up. Well, there was that, but also prior to that, the plan was to go to Memphis Rocks and like do it there and film it and like experience the kids and all of that. But then COVID happened and that all kind of went away. And so when we were in Memphis, that's the first time that I had seen him

or spoke to him since those earlier conversations. Well, I think there's a lot of opportunity to do that. And also in Crosstown, there's so much creativity and people that are on the cutting edge of their innovation. Also Matt Ross Spang or Spang Ross. I think it's Matt Ross Spang. He's a music producer there that has an amazing studio. And they do 28 artists in residency a year.

Also we have Will McGowan, who is McLean's brother, my dear friend McLean. It's her brother and he has the woodworking shop there. So it's rad, it's really cool. The woodworking shop is insane. It's insane. Yeah, what they're doing with wood in there. I mean, it's full on.

And they have this huge machine that's like the size of this room. I forget what it's insane. Yeah, what they're doing with wood in there. I mean, it's full on. And they have this huge machine that's like the size of this room. I forget what it's called. It's called like a PNP or something like that. Like Mathis knew what it was. Basically, it's a industrial size, like laser cutter for wood that typically would only be used by developers

who are building houses and apartment complexes, et cetera, but not available to artists who want to do something different with it. And I think, so I think it's one of the very few that exists that's available for artisans and artists to do interesting things. It's very cool. And I might've said Will's last name wrong. That might not be his name. So sorry if I got it wrong. Also, I just want to give a shout out to Citywood, who I got these poplar live edge shelves from. They're a group of guys that are farmers, but they have the most amazing reclaimed yard of just all kinds of different varieties. And they're in Memphis, Tennessee. It's called Citywood. And I just want to thank them for making me these beautiful poplar shelves,

which is it's local wood to Memphis. So anyway, thanks guys. In celebration of you and seeing you and being present with you, I want you to know how proud I am of everything that you have created, this manifestation with your company, but also just the presence that you have grown

and matured into like this incredibly wise being who has a very unique and powerful lens on not just relationships, but how to be in the world. And I've watched as you've grown into that and all the people who are comforted by what you share with them. And I think it's really a beautiful, unique expression,

a certain frequency that you emit into the world that is entirely your own. So I just wanted to recognize you for that. Thank you for that. Thanks. I love you. Me too. Before we go, I think you're offering up

like some kind of deal on the Shreemu situation. Okay, so to get your Shreemu, to get you some, we're gonna give 22% off on our new dessert offering. It's a two mousse cake box. It's called the Maclay. And so for that code, it's Maclay22, M-A-C-L-A-Y 22. And then we're gonna give a code RRPFAM, which is for the 13th box free of any annual subscription.

You'll get the 13th box free. And what is that? How much is that off what you would normally- It depends because it depends on which subscription you buy. So it's just whichever subscription you buy, you'll get a free box. So, and you know, that's all in the spirit of building our family and community and keeping us close and aligned.

And so, and thank you to everyone who supported me so far. It's because of you guys that I was able to launch this company and create this beautiful food as art. And so I hope you'll continue with me along the journey. Thanks. You can learn more about srimo at srimo.com and you are at Srimati? Yes. S-R-I-M-A-T-I or juliepiet.com. And yeah, for all the things. Yeah, and if you are enjoying Julie's frequency, you might wanna check out her Water Tiger community,

which you can find on your website as well, right? Yeah, so it's Water Tiger Spiritual Community Mentorship, monthly call for two hours, and then you have access to over 50 techniques to help put you in the gap it's all self-created so you decide where to enter and what to use and it's a beautiful community all right to be continued to be continued yeah all right love you babe thank you i love you, babe. Thank you. I love you, sweetheart. All right. Thank you. Peace, plants. Namaste.

That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change in the Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and or comment. Supporting the

sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated, and sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is, of course, awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, the meal planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo with additional audio engineering by Cale Curtis. The video edition of Thank you. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love. Love the support. See you back here soon.

Peace. Plants. Namaste. Thank you.