The Rich Roll Podcast - Danielle LaPorte On Becoming Your Own Guru

Episode Date: April 10, 2017

From fire walks to ice baths and juice cleanses to intermittent fasting, silent retreats, talk therapy and everything in between, the world of personal development is limitless. And that's not counting all the podcasts, audiobooks, online courses, weekend seminars, weeklong symposiums, webinar tutorials and mastermind intensives that can occupy a well-intentioned seeker dawn to dusk for the next 10,000 years. Beyond the overwhelm, the self-help universe is fraught with snake oil slinging charlatans obfuscating truth from fiction — and all too often salvation from predation. Efforts to divine truth from bullshit render imperfect results. Anxiety ensues. To cope, we double down on improving upon our self-improvement until we wake up one day and realize what began as a laudable quest for growth has suddenly become an obsessive malignancy — a sort of spiritual eating disorder gnawing away on our very soul. Danielle LaPorte has been there. And she's got a message for you: You're the answer to your question. Named to Oprah’s inaugural SuperSoul 100, Entrepreneur magazine calls Danielle equal parts poet and entrepreneurial badass. I call her a powerful force of nature — a teacher, a leader and a mom who also happens to be a lauded public speaker, multiple bestselling author and doyenne of blogging for millions at DanielleLaPorte.com, which Forbes calls the best place online for kickass spirituality. Honest, accessible and authentic to the core, Danielle's books include The Fire Starter Sessions: A Soulful + Practical Guide to Creating Success on Your Own Terms* and The Desire Map: A Guide to Creating Goals with Soul*. Her newest book, which hits shelves everywhere May 16 and is available for pre-order now, is entitled White Hot Truth: Clarity for Keeping It Real on Your Spiritual Path from One Seeker to Another*. A high recommend, it's a fun and accessible rollercoaster ride through the machinations of personal growth, the pitfalls of spiritual glamour and the self-criticism that too often accompanies self-help to deliver a powerful edict: you are your own guru. A beacon of compassion, Danielle is an extraordinary human. A woman devoted to helping people transcend their limitations, access their potential, and truly self-actualize. It was an honor to finally sit down with her and talk it all out. This is a fun, deep and deeply fun dive into Danielle’s divine path. It's an exploration of self-help adventures gone wrong and the breakthroughs that make it all worth it. It's about what happens when spirituality becomes a to do list. And why sometimes we have to fall for lies in order to discover our truth. Ultimately, it's not how you seek spiritual growth, it's why you seek it. Answer this, and you are on the path to becoming your own guru. Enjoy! Rich

I'm really suggesting you should examine everything you're doing to be a better person because you might be doing it obsessively and you might want to actually leave all of your practices and then come back to them on your own terms. I want you to respect your own opinions and get down into that place of self-compassion where you're really loving yourself while you're really hating yourself because that's where the medicine happens. And then, and this is just my own agenda, very open about this. I would really love it if you got off your ass and you gave selflessly to the world.

That's Danielle Laporte this week on the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. The whole self-help world, the self-help landscape can be really tricky to navigate. It's disorienting, it's fraught with landmines, and there's literally no end to the amount of time, energy, and money that you could possibly invest in your so-called personal development. Everything from fireworks to ice baths, juice cleanses, intermittent fasting, from silent retreats to talk therapy, colonics, cryotherapy, Reiki, Tantra, on and on and on. And beyond the countless disciplines, there are also enough podcasts, of which this is one, I suppose, for better or worse, audiobooks, online courses,

weekend seminars, week-long symposiums, mastermind intensives, to occupy you from dawn to dusk for, you know, I don't know, the next 10,000 years, led by more than a few gurus of questionable qualifications and perhaps even more questionable motives. So I think it's fair to say it's enough to make even the most well-intentioned seeker feel so overwhelmed that it's not surprising that so often the reaction is anxiety. This quest to better ourselves is actually working at cross-purposes with our desired result. This desire to improve on self-improvement suddenly becomes an unhealthy obsession. I'm Rich Roll. This is my podcast. Thanks for listening. And this week, I'm super pleased to sit down with the amazing Danielle Laporte to explore the aforementioned issues, the potential

and actual conflict that exists between genuine spiritual aspiration on the one hand, this thirst for growth, and an unhealthy compulsion to improve on the other hand. So if you're one of the few people that doesn't know who Danielle is, who is Danielle Laporte? Well, Danielle was named to Oprah's inaugural Super Soul 100. She's been dubbed, quote, equal parts poet and entrepreneurial badass by Entrepreneur Magazine. She's many things. She's a successful business person. She is a powerful force of nature, a teacher, a leader, a mom, a lauded public speaker, multiple bestselling author and blogger. Her website,

daniellelaporte.com was named one of the top 100 websites for women and the best place online for kick-ass spirituality by Forbes magazine. And she has a really fun, unique style of expressing her thoughts and her experiences on personal and spiritual growth, on conscious goal setting, on entrepreneurship. And she does it in a way that's really fun and very accessible, in a way that I think really anchors and keeps her millions of monthly readers coming back for more, of which I count myself one. Her books include The Firestarter Sessions, The Desire Map,

and now her newest book, which is out May 16th, but available for pre-order now. You can check it out. It's called White Hot Truth, Clarity for Keeping It Real on Your Spiritual Path from One Seeker to Another. And I got more I want to say about Danielle in a minute. I want to say about Danielle in a minute. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care.

Especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem, a problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com, who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple.

Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option fororte, what can I say? She's amazing. I absolutely love this woman. She just has extraordinary energy. She's incredibly thoughtful and has a very

calm and anchored presence. I think she demonstrates real devotion, true commitment to helping people by sharing her experience in the most open and honest and vulnerable way. So this is a really fun and at times deep conversation about Danielle's path, of course, the ups, the downs, the machinations that led her to where she is today. It's about self-help adventures gone wrong and breakthroughs that make it all worth it. It's about what happens when spirituality becomes a to-do list and how we can develop this unhealthy, at times obsessive, relationship with personal development that ends up working at odds with our desired result, which is contentment, connection, odds with our desired result, which is contentment, connection, purpose. It's about the principles required to develop that healthy relationship with your own desire to grow and

expand things like discernment, intentional kindness, self-compassion, authenticity. Because look, ultimately, you need to become your own favorite guru. And you need to understand that, if you ask Danielle, it's not how we seek spiritual growth, it's why we seek it. So with that said, I give you Danielle Laporte. Well, it's so nice to finally get a chance to sit down and talk to you directly. We've been communicating indirectly for a long time, so it's a pleasure. I'm stoked because you are my favorite podcast.

Oh, you're just saying that because you're here. No, you've become like my obsession. You know, you and I, we met at a party a while ago, and you were a little standoffish. I was not. You totally were. Well, I didn't know you. I felt like we met at the Handlers. There was that beautiful event where you got to do your thing, and we hadn't met, so I didn't know you,

and I felt like you were friends with everybody, and Julie and I were like the outsiders. We were the interlopers, so I didn't mean to be standoffish. I just felt like we didn't have a foundation. We hadn't really met yet. But it's all turned out because now I'm like totally obsessed with you. So look, full circle. Well, here we are.

The feeling is mutual. The new book is really fantastic. Congratulations. It's so exciting. It's such a fun read. Like when you read something that you've written, it's so demonstrably you. Like nobody else could have written in the way in the vein in the style and you know that you do you have a very specific um original and uh you know a very

authentic uh way of communicating that i think connects with people in a special way you know and what do you how do you think about that do just, you're just channeling who you are? Or do you have like a methodology for that? I bring down myself. Yeah. I want to be useful. So every time I sit down to write, there's like this sometimes intentional, sometimes unintentional prayer. Just like, may this have some utility.

May this ease some suffering. And I just want to express myself at the same time. And I have to dial down the poetics. Sometimes I read stuff and I'm just like, what? What? Too cosmological. A little too flowery. Esoteric.

And I'm really, like, fiercely clear on the point I want to make. And I want to make it in the most word economical way possible. And I want my writing to feel like essential oil. Like I just got you the best roses and I distilled them down and I packaged it beautifully, but I got to the point. Right. So, so relief, comfort and healing. Yeah. That's beautiful.

And a good, and really, I just want to make you laugh at the end of the day. Yeah. Well, it's very human too. Like you're very, you know, open and honest about, you know, your sort of blind spots and pitfalls. And I think that that allows people to, you know, connect and see themselves in your own journey. And because you're not standing apart, you're not saying, you know, I've walked this path and this is what I've learned. And now sit down and I'm going to tell you how it's going to go. You know, you're saying I'm struggling. I'm trying to work this out just like you guys, here's where I fall short. Here's what I've learned and kind of take, you know, take from it, uh, to the extent that it speaks to you and

resonates with you all in it together. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, what I wanted to do is kind of like read the first paragraph of the new book. Cause I think it kind of encapsulates, you know, everything that I want to talk to you about today. It really grabs you. You start off by saying, three shrinks walk into a bar, a Buddhist, an agnostic, and a Catholic. This isn't a joke. It's my talk therapy history. I've had a life coach, a creativity coach, a speaking coach, an intuitive business coach. I've had astrology readings with both Western and Eastern. Those are called Vedic astrologers because it's always good to have a backup

astrologer in case you don't like what the first one predicts. I've communicated with the goddess Pele. I've done that. But you haven't. You've been in Hawaii. Who hasn't? I've talked with my spirit guides and the archangel Metatron. I haven't spoken to that archangel.

You need to get to know him. I've communed with my inner child, my my future self and the devas of my website i've cleared dozens of past lives dissolve some ancestral woes and examine the finer print of my soul contracts and it kind of goes on from there you know and basically what you're saying is you know i've been blazing this you know path of self-help and and you know self-expression and self-knowledge and expansion on the road to perhaps enlightenment or just getting a little bit better. And everything that kind of follows and flows from the book is your experiences as a result of that.

And I think that what's communicated in the pages so beautifully is that there is no one path. And actually, there's a lot of dark alleyways that a lot of people run down that perhaps you have as well, where you can get caught up. And ultimately, at the end of the day, it's all great,

but you have to take responsibility for your own path. And ultimately, if there's a subtext that kind of runs through the whole thing, it's you gotta be your own guru, right? I think I should name the next book or I should retitle this book, perhaps enlightenment. That's a good one. Yeah, you are your own guru, dark alleyways, for sure. And I want this, I mean, there's like, there's really this prodigal through line in this where I'm really suggesting you should examine everything you're doing to be a better person.

Because you might be doing it obsessively. And you might want to actually leave everything you're doing, leave all of your practices, and then come back to them on your own terms. And that's what I've done. on your own terms. And that's what I've done with it. Because I don't want people to get the idea that this is about just screw it all and be debaucherous and this is about a self-centered way to go. It's not about a rogue spirituality.

It's about a spirituality that works for you because I'm all for devotion. And I think you... I want to cheerlead people to be on the path, to be focused on evolving and seeking. But you got to let a lot of stuff go. And it gets down to resonance, like what really works for you in your bones. I think there's an epidemic of self-care impinging on self-care. You know what I mean? Like, like we can become so caught up

in, in learning and, and, and being a sponge for all this amazing information that's now available to all of us through these amazing devices that we carry around in our pockets. But ultimately it can create not just a sense of overwhelming disassociation because there's so much and it comes in so many varied voices that at times conflict, but also paralysis and then self-judgment. You nailed it.

Yeah, that's all of it. It's about your spirituality becoming a to-do list. I mean, when I had my slow grinding revelations around this, you know, the reckoning was looking at my day planner over the course of a month. And there was like, there was a shaman there. There's definitely a therapist on the roster. There was yoga, but not like I wanted to go to yoga because like for the joy of being on the map but like must get to yoga

to improve uh there was a workshop to schedule and then there's this just this general undercurrent of like am i being awesome and evolved and pure hearted and intentional with all these things I'm doing to go be more pure hearted and intentional. It's a lot of money. And it's a lot of time. And it was actually, you know, I felt this tension between everything I need in my life to make like I'm a maker, I just want to create I am running a business that I love being and fixing myself up. And it was getting really expensive and time consuming and fixing myself up. And it was getting really expensive and time consuming fixing myself up. When your primary occupation suddenly becomes fixing yourself up. Yeah. And you're not actually living your life. Exactly. Right. Like it's starting to invade like the divining line between, you know, what you're doing to kind of expand yourself

becomes so all-consuming that you're not actually in your own life. You're in your own day. And there's this flavor of panic all the time with that sort of racing and looking outside of yourself for the answers. It's like, I need to talk to my astrologer before I sign this. I better check in with my coach before I make this decision. So there's always like, there's that like janky time gap of like, I want to bust the move.

I want to sign. I want to say yes. I want to make. But I need to get an appointment first. I can't. Yeah, it becomes disempowering. Yeah, it becomes really disempowering. Because you become reliant on your, look, it's good to have a board of advisors and

people that give you sound counsel and to learn to, you know, find those people who you can trust. But at some point you have to evolve into a place where you can trust your own instincts as well. Otherwise you'll remain handicapped. And I think it's all about that. Everything we're doing is about getting to that place and you're going to get there and then there's going to be bigger questions and deeper valleys

and greater challenges and you're going to need some external help but it is all about being self-referencing but at the same time there is value in it right yeah so it's about striking that balance i suppose yeah i can't do it alone right but it's about discernment like i now have a very short list of people i would consider the real deal and everybody else goes through a much more stringent um observation process than they used to i'm really interested in people who have suffered. I'm interested in people who aren't hiding their story of suffering. I'm very interested in where people's money comes from.

And I want to know that there's philanthropy involved in somebody's service. And I think there, you I think my recent learning is that spiritual teachers really come to you in the spirit of friendship. They're not trying to convert you. They do not need you to believe in them. First of all, they clearly do not need your approval, but they don't need you to bolster them with your investment of adoration. And they meet you where you are.

It's not, well, this is the meditation. These are the seven steps. This is the program that I'm selling today. It's where, oh, this is what you need as an individual because I'm your friend and i'm attending to your pain there's a different different kind of presence with with those who i think are the real deal so who can you say who the members of that council well a mutual friend of ours guru singh well he's the best he's the best i mean he is just he's the best. He's the best. I mean, he is just, he's got that diamond consciousness.

There's a real sternness about him, but he's playful at the same time. And my God, I mean, he has a story. Yeah, fascinating. And there's something about him, you know, like his kind of presence. It's not just about, you know, eye-gazing and the capacity to hold people's pain and rock a room. He's not in a rush. He's not in a rush to get stuff out. He's not trying to convert anybody. I say my learning with you know my real deal

discernment has been that the more I rely on myself for the answers the fewer people I listen to the less panic I have in my life about getting the answer the more capable I am

for real reverence you know so I can be in the presence of someone like Guru Singh, and it's just mad love. I'm just happy to sit at his feet. I want to know what he thinks about me. It's just like real devotion. Well, he's certainly a vast consciousness with incredible insight, but he's also very human and very approachable. Like he's a dude.

You know what I mean? He plays, rocks the guitar. Totally rocks out. Yeah. Like you could talk to him about anything and he's a parent. He lives in the world. Yeah. You know, so he's a very special, unique human being for sure.

And there aren't too many people like him. But I think that behind kind of the subtext of what you just said, like behind that is really what I heard is somebody who's done enough self-work where they can get to that point where you don't need, like you're not sitting at the feet of Guru Singh with some great need for him to be something to you like you can absorb the wisdom and there's certainly things to be learned but you're not giving over your power right yeah you're not looking to be saved you don't approach things like you're broken and you need to be fixed and you recognize that you have some value to add to the conversation,

even in conversation with great masters and great leaders. Like, human to human, you have a useful story. But did you think that you had to go through all of these machinations and be with all of these various people to get to where you're at? Or is there a different way? I mean, the book addresses that, of course. Listen, I had to waste thousands of dollars on really bad workshops that I wanted to peel out of my rental car in the middle of the night.

And I don't know that I could have gotten here any other way. But it's a path I took. I think you have to be lost to get found. I think you need to be, if you're signing up to be a light worker and to be of service to the world, you will get betrayed. It is part of the initiation. It's unavoidable. I mean, the betrayal can be in a romantic relationship or with a boss, or you can go drop some peyote and have to face some demons in the desert. But like you cannot, there are no shortcuts to initiation. You will have to face some demons in the desert but like you cannot there are no shortcuts to initiation you will have to walk through the fire yeah and sometimes you know sort of accepting the humanity

of whoever is delivering the message and the betrayals that sometimes are packed into that whether it's financial or um with trust or you sexual, um, sometimes the message being delivered is still sound despite the flawed humanity of the person delivering the message. I've had that experience as well. Um, but I think, you know, behind it all, like our, you know, you are somebody who is your seeker, right? So, you know, what is that about like were you just did you just come out fully baked like that hungry like what is it that's driving that thirst for self-understanding or actualization yeah it came out this way this is a lifetime for it i mean i want to know i'm driven to serve um i want an intimacy with creation i'm really interested in euphoria i'm interested in why

the planet is so severely fucked up right now i I want to know what I can do about it. I want to know how we got this way. I'm very interested in the science of hope and optimism. I struggle with both of those things. And I feel a lot of joy constantly. But hopefulness for me is a real conversation right now. Did you feel like there was a hole that needed to be filled, though? Was there something missing and driving that thirst

with the hopes of filling something that you were lacking that existed outside of you? I didn't feel whole. I felt like I was looking for my place. Yeah, I've been looking for my stage. I've been looking for the most useful thing to say. I've been looking for my people. Yeah.

Well, I think you found your people. Yeah. I think, you know, you've definitely found your groove and what you're doing. You know, you're this amazing, you know, leader of women, you know, and a messenger, like an envoy of female empowerment and feminism and self-reliance that I think is much needed in this world. You know, something I talk about on the podcast all the time is when people say there aren't, you know, enough women that we're celebrating, enough strong women doing interesting things, and there's plenty of them. We just need to do a better job of shining a light on them. Agreed.

And you've been able to create this, you know, this tribe, like I sort of see you, I don't know if this is fair or not. Tell me if it isn't, but you know, with you, Marie Forleo, Gabby Bernstein, Chris Carr, like you're this power foursome of women who have kind of collaborated at times and each have developed their own tribe and probably in a Venn diagram, it overlaps a fair amount, but you know, together it's, it's quite a, you know, triumphant, powerful demonstration and display of, of female, female empowerment. So how does that sit with you? Like, how do you feel about that and think about that?

Yeah. We've been, you know, as friends, we're just sort of like the Charlie's angels. Yeah, exactly. The new age. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Of the new age. Right. Yeah. And all really wired to serve. Mm-hmm.

And unapologetic about the success that's come with that. And not going to stop. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, standing in your power. Yeah. Rock on. Thank you.

So let's backtrack it a little bit. You know, your backstory is super interesting and unique and certainly not linear you know you didn't you you made a decision to not go to college to university right and at the time was that a conscious decision of saying i'm this is not for me like i'm opting out of this path. Or did it just disinterest you? Like when you think back on it now, like how do you conceptualize that? I was going to go into fashion design. And even going into fashion design, I wanted to be really disruptive. I was like, I'm going to do these naked fashion shows and really make this statement, right?

That wasn't going to work. And I was working on my portfolio and cutting patterns and sewing and I would get these what I consider to be like near migraines whenever I sewed and I just walked out of my room one night and said to my mom I'm done I'm not I'm not this isn't it and I was bartending on the side like I had no idea how it was going to work out and I I wouldn't say I was lost, but I wasn't on any particular track. But the decision to not go to college was fueled by this desire to be a fashion designer at the time, initially? Yeah, I thought I needed that to work in that world. And it was clear this was not going to be the world for me.

This was what I was feeling like way too surface. And my body was saying, do not pass go on this one. So that was it. I was not going to go to fashion design school. I will figure something out. I got to pay rent. I'll just keep waitressing and bartending. And then I got a job at the body shop in the days of anita erotic and that you know

these are the days when like social responsibility in in business was like a new thing right this is like pre-tom shoes that's right pre-toms and pre who's the toothpaste guy uh toms of maine yeah for the original tom right and that was like so exciting that was like wild west of business a triple bottom line right but you start did you start out just in a retail store yeah it was like cutting soap and popping peppermint foot cream and so how did you hustle your way into like the corporate i see you need to give me a promotion and i say i am not signing that performance review that manager is crazy and you need to like bump me up and it worked I just really talked my way up and up and then

the body shop started something called the department of social inventions and I started raising money to go to Romania and just got involved in all of their really amazing cultural programs. And then I just needed to bust out again. And I moved to the States. I got a job working with this American guru woman working in her like remote Santa Fe, New Mexico place of healing. And I was doing everything from like booking her fire Santa Fe, New Mexico place of healing. And I was doing everything from booking her firewalk workshops to getting her magazine interviews to booking her hair appointments. And that got me into that space.

Like that sort of publicity space. Yeah. And then I was at a party one day and somebody said, what are you doing? And I'm like, oh, I get people gigs. And I get them on the radio. They're like, you're like you're publicist I was like I should go get a business card that says I'm a publicist and that was the entry point and then physicists came along and philosophers came along and economists came along a lot of big names and they're like aren't

you the girl who promotes futurists and I was, I should put that on my business card. And then that led to a real J-O-B running this think tank in Washington, D.C. with 21 futurists. So here I am, Canadian, very female, very not educated. I mean, when I first landed in D.C., people were always asking me what my alma mater was. I did not even understand. I did not know what that term was.

I was like, alma mater. And I really leveraged that I hadn't gone to university because then people think, wow, you must be something to not have a degree and be doing this. Right, instead of hiding it, saying, yeah, You must be something to not have a degree and be doing this. Right. Instead of hiding it, saying, yeah, I'm so special or unique. Not in an egoistic way, but sort of flipping the table on that. I had no choice.

I had no choice. And major imposter complex at the same time, right? So I'm wearing suits. I'm wearing loafers. Working at a... I mean, I grew up in DC. Like I had such a hard time imagining you working in a think tank in Washington. That's just crazy. Navy blue.

Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I mean, I talk about it in the book, tucking crystals into my bra to go to my first meeting at the White House to talk about Y2K. And I had this white. Not exactly an inside the beltway move no and i had this white fantastic white suit on and i had red bangs and like i think i had a purple streak in my hair and the head of this committee you know was a clinton administration leaned over

afterwards and was like you're not from here are you i was like no dude but let's rock some change yeah and so that was like uh it was a non-profit right so you're hustling for money and writing white papers and doing kind of what you do in that world i mean that's a pretty good gig i mean it would not be you know would not be surprising for you to say oh my god like i didn't even go to school you know i didn't go to college and here i I am. I've got this amazing job. I'm going to stay here and build a career out of this. Yeah, no way. I was not, listen, writing white papers on weapons of mass destruction, thinking about the AIDS crisis in Africa, water wars.

It felt that had great gravitas. Like I understood the potential change we could affect. If we got some of those scenarios into the hands of the right people, we could like change some behavior. And this is where the imposter complex came in. I was going home, smoking a pack of Marlboros. I wanted to read Roomie and Rolling Stone magazine. I was actually not that interested in the future. I was more interested in educating people on being present. It was not for me. And then there were circumstances.

So a lot of our funding came from the dot-com boom that bombed. George W. Bush, bush number two got in i was just like i'm going to flee this nation and figure my shit out and i went i mean i just did i did a go gang i went from like left brain to right brain and i just wanted to paint and i tried to get into art school i got rejected i still have a And I just wanted to paint. And I tried to get into art school. I got rejected. I still have a letter. And I wanted to work in a soup kitchen. I just wanted to be with people who like I could see their pain. And then it became clear soon, it was time for me to have a baby. Did you have that awareness of this impulse to teach and be available to other people? Was that part of the equation in taking that leap?

Or did you just know, I've got to get out? Well, it was a combo of I've got to get out. And I've been clear all along, even though I hadn't mapped it this way. I needed to be doing my own thing. It needed to be like Danielle on the door. And I mean, even when I left the body shop, you know, I was 20 something and I was having a conversation with my high school girlfriends, dads, you know, and he's, you know, you come back and you've grown up and he's like, why did you leave? What an amazing job. The company's growing so quickly. I just said, it was never going to be mine. So this sense of being an entrepreneur also. Oh, yes.

In my veins. Do not tell me what to do. I have to. I must be free. Very risk erotic almost. I love the idea of risking money, of risking reputation. I just wanted to blaze. And no imposter complex with that when you tried that suit on.

Nope. No, take the loafers off. Yeah. Yeah. Goodbye loafers, get some tattoos. It takes strength. I think that, and I know you've talked about this, but I think that not going to college, not going to university makes that jump a little bit easier because you're not already

in this box and on this habit trail where this is what you do. And then you go from here to here. And this is the expectation that we're placing on you and kind of intuiting that. But not having that experience, you're like, I don't have to do this. Right. But still, I think it takes strength, especially if you're saying, I don't have a university degree. Like if I leave this, am I going to be able to get another job again? Like for me, like when I try that on, like I see this, I have that, you know, that fear crops up. Well, Stanford bakes it into you, don't they? Yeah. It's its own, you know, it's its own highly privileged cage, I suppose, you know, I think. And I think I stayed in career paths much longer than I should have for that

reason, you know, because I didn't feel that sense of freedom and fluidity, I think, that you have been able to enjoy. But I think at the same time, it's important to point out that it takes a very strong person, nonetheless, whether you have that experience or not to be able to jump around like that to have that internal barometer or compass that's dictating like okay my next move is out of here i don't know what's next i'm gonna you know have faith and jump into the abyss and trust that i'll be taken care of like you had that sense right i i've always had the sense i'd be taken care of it didn't mean that you know look I lived on credit cards eventually I started a company with a friend I got Steve jobbed from my own company I went and raised a bunch of

money Oprah had called I'd you know wrote my first book proposal like right playing through this like critical stage in your life. Like, all right, let's slow down. So you start this, you get a partner and you start this company. Is this when like the blog starts or is this still publicity? Well, this is, I've graduated from publicizing other people. So this is like, I'm going to make my own stage. I'm going to, I got my hammer.

I'm going to build it. on stage i'm gonna i got my hammer i'm gonna build it a friend and i essentially start this consultancy that is about soulful personal branding we create this this formula and this process around it's really beautiful and it's deep and the phone is ringing off the hook and came out with a book oprah producers called when you live in van and Oprah Winfrey calls you it's very easy to raise money so we did that and four dudes I think it's an important part of the story that they were all dudes come to the table with really big checks and say if you hire this tech wonder kid to run your company we'll sign the check today give or take i mean i'm dramatizing of it but that's that was the scenario and we did the smart thing take the money and hire

the guy to run your female centered female audience focused company and the idea was to consult one-on-one and also scale that into online programs and things like that. We were going to be a lifestyle media company. You know, this was in the days when it was all about your click-through model. And it was all going to be about ad-driven articles and content, content, content. I always saw that I was going to be the content generator for that. And then we might start these in-home conversation groups around soulful style.

And there was this whole kind of Mary Kay spirit self-help model to this. Because it wasn't going to work for me just doing these one-off consulting sessions. And it wasn't scalable. And within six months, I got canned by the ceo that i had hired only six months in the lawyer who i had hired to paper all of the shareholder deals sent me a letter one day asking for you know i needed to hand in the computer. It had come to their attention that the office chair was in my home.

And could I return my fucking chair? Yeah. And, I mean, you know, the day you get canned from your own business, and, you know, I'm pulling out of the parking spot that has my name on the parking spot, but I have been let go. Rage, dissolution, come home, mascara running down my face. My baby boy is like two and a half. I say to my then husband, can you get the baby out of the house?

He says, okay. He knows something's not right and then you know i just totally lost it i've the company's gone i've been constructively dismissed and someone better get a lawyer involved you know a best thing that ever happened to me of course yeah right why is it always the punchline these you know crazy terrible things that happen with time and perspective become the best things yeah because we're in you know it has to happen that way because we're just in so much denial and i was betraying myself so severely like every body cue was there My breathing was changing when I went into the

office. Upset stomach when I signed contracts. I mean, there was a day where the new CEO came in and said, you know, you have to give over signing authority because there can only be so many people on the account. I was like, let me get this straight. It's my name in the url and i'm gonna huh a lot of money on the table a lot of people really wanted us to succeed so i betrayed me and i gave over signing authority i mean just the metaphor of that is so right awesomely pathetic but but who would do different here you are you're finally an entrepreneur you have your own thing i mean the universe had to knock hard because otherwise you would have stayed there because you're you know on paper this is like what you're manifesting on some level this dream that is an expression of your own idea i'm so glad we didn't get on Oprah. I would have been on that. That would have created

this rocket ship of success. I would, might still be riding and I wouldn't have been my full self. I'm so, I'm grateful for the betrayal. And, you know, there's some refining in that gratitude, like the over-spiritualization of bad things that happened to you is to say, I'm so grateful to everyone involved. I'm so grateful that happened. No, listen, there was some nasty shit that went down in that. There was some very poor behavior that karma will take care of that. I don't have to worry about that.

I am not grateful for being ousted. I'm not grateful for some of the particulars of that. However, I am very grateful about my capacity to transform and transmute that situation. There's gratitude, but then there's also forgiveness, right? would i would presume that you got to a place where you could at least forgive because that frees your own baggage from that experience yeah it took a while and eventually the conclusion was everybody was doing the best they could at the time everybody had a lot on the line. Dude needed to succeed. The four other dudes who invested,

they're locked into their own rules of the game. My business partner did her best. Did her best. But it took a while. I mean, I ran into somebody who was part of that scenario a while after. And, you know, there were hugs and kisses, and I thought, you know, I should and kisses and i thought you know i should have just like just punched him right in the teeth when i left instead of a big hug thank you

that's right the best revenge is like living well yeah right yeah yeah so you can you can smile and give that person a hug can't you yeah but there was there was still some unresolved stuff for me there like there was still a unresolved stuff for me there. There was still a conversation that I wasn't having with that person. What happened there? You sold me down the river. That needs to be expressed. Not necessarily to the person who has betrayed you,

but you just need to be really clear on what the pain point is. And then once you get really real, you get to the other side. And you're just like, you know, we're all bozos on the same bus. And on a soul level, love, gratitude, happy for your success that you're having. Yeah, a lot of sweetness and the at the the end of that cycle i think it takes a cognizance of the fact that you know i think there's there's this sense in the spiritual seeking new age community to just delve into the everything is rainbows and unicorns and it's all light and the secret and all of that, right? Without an appreciation

and understanding and embrace of the fact that there is plenty of dark out there and to deny it is not going to be the best path forward for you. In other words, to be able to understand, look, this guy's not a good, he didn't, you know, maybe he's not a terrible human being. He did not behave appropriately and that's not okay. And to understand that and be able to acknowledge that and not just, you know, to be dismissive, I think, and say, oh, well, he did the best he could or, you know, it's not so bad because everything's fine now, I think creates like a percolation of perhaps resentment that will come to haunt you later. And you know, this dynamic is really important, specifically in the spiritual community. So like business, it's easier to parse out, you know, you can digest that. But when someone has

been immoral in a spiritual setting, whoa, much more trickier to discern. It can be much more wounding. I mean, you've let someone into your psyche, into your practice. And this is really what I'm on about is discernment in that space. Right. You talk about something that we talk about on the podcast. Julie and I talked about extensively on the podcast, the difference between discernment and judgment.

So how do you think about that dichotomy or how do you split hairs with that? Judgment is nasty. It's cranky. It's very narrow-minded. It's like the worst side of small-town consciousness. And I think it's rooted in fear it can't stand being separate from it sees itself as separate and there's some panic there discernment wants to do what's best for everybody discernment wants to see clearly

because you know it just wants to be in the light it wants to make progress it wants it's evolution doesn't happen without discernment and discernment often creates disruption and disharmony it can stir up a lot of anger and rage i mean you need that kind of anger to fight for justice, to fight against injustice. And so it gets a bad rap when that new age lecture is so much about harmony and oneness all the time. But sometimes you have to stand apart to stand for everybody. Like, you know, with the political climate and where things are right now, I think it's time to take sides. The divine irony is that I want to be on the side that includes everybody. Like, there's space, but I've got to be clear about what I consider personally to be immoral and moral, ethical and unethical, dark and light.

And for so long, I just went along in this bubble that because at everybody's core, they are love and we're all made of the stuff of stars, it's okay. Yeah, no, not okay. There are some bad mothers with some really nasty agendas who are acting like lightworkers, who are getting paid and hustling because they supposedly have your most enlightened interests at heart. And it's just not the case.

Yeah. Yeah, so you're speaking both to the political environment as well as the spiritual environment, right? And the practitioners that we find there. I think that it's tricky with politics. I'm sure you've been counseled to refrain from speaking your mind in that arena for fear of dividing your audience that you've worked so hard to build that in many ways transcends politics. So the conversation or the decision tree becomes about what is, you know, what is, what is appropriate, you know, in this, in this period of time, like, who do you want to be?

And what is your truth? And what are the, the limitations or the parameters upon which you speak about things that you feel are important, irrespective of how that's going to land. Right. Like, and that brings up, it brings it back to discernment versus judgment, like without judgment, but with discernment, what is my responsibility as somebody who's carrying a certain frequency and has a certain tribe of people that are, that is following along and, and hanging on your every word.

Like, how do you, you know, how do you, you know, how do you think about that and practice that? Well, no one would dare counsel me to refrain anymore. No one's trying to cross that bridge. You have to do everything you do with intentional kindness, uh you have to do everything you do with intentional kindness everything and you know when trump got in and the hashtag was about resistance in its various forms you know i have to speak the language of hashtags i'm in this business i got on that bandwagon for a very quick period short period of time and it didn't feel right and it was a good little I had to make this mid-course correction about the stand I'm going to take and for me it's more about you know it's not about resistance it's about creativity

and it's about const it's about constantly promoting the values of love and kindness and discernment. And I rarely speak about anybody personally anymore. The few times I've done that, it felt gross. So I just have my own inner gross meter. And if it feels like, ew, I don't go there. I try and keep things as clean but as fiercely opinionated as possible. Yeah, Guru Singh talks about insistence, not resistance. Like drawing this distinction in the same way that you draw a distinction

between judgment and discernment. The distinction between insistence and resistance with the preference being on insistence. And you have to be okay with the pushback. Like this is not for the weak skinned, right? But a great life is not for the weak skinned. Standing up, verbalizing your belief, whether it's like at your kitchen table or your boardroom or with your 10 Facebook followers or your,

you know, your, your 50,000, whatever it is, you, you gotta be expanding all the time with your opinions. And in the, the kind of self-help world, uh, you touched on this a little bit, you know, we're in this age where suddenly we have so much information available to us and there's a lot of people that are that are trying to get you into their email sales funnel and Send you their free ebook with the hopes that you're gonna then buy their online program and a lot of people I think that are there's a lot of great people doing that and there's a lot of Pretenders to the throne and and people that probably shouldn't be doing that right so when

you when you look at that and you think about your audience of people and the exercise of discernment like how does somebody who's listening to this you know approach that world maybe they have a neat like they really are struggling with their relationship or with their profession or whatever. And they want that good information that could be transformative. Like how do you approach finding the appropriate, you know, well-suited messenger for that? I think the fewer messengers, the better. I think you look for one message, one teaching that you really resonate with. You see consistency across the board with somebody's brand. They're upfront about their story.

And you go deep into that and see if it works for you. And then you move to the next thing if that doesn't work for you. One path. Like, I remember meeting with the Dalai Lama. Let me just casually throw that out. So one time, the Dalai Lama. Let me just casually throw that out. So one time, the Dalai Lama and I. But it was in an actual conversation I was honored to be able to have with him. And he just said, you know, your religion doesn't matter.

Just go into whatever you choose. And that's a hard lesson when you're panicked and you want the answers. And you've just been fired or you're in the middle of a divorce or you're trying to get healthy, you will grab from any shelf that you can one opinion at a time. Go deep. Move on. Yeah, one of the things that Julie always says is, I trust you to find your way. Empower the person on the receiving end to say you already know it's already inside of

you there are many paths to extracting that and there's work that has to be done and that might be very very difficult work that you have you know heavy lifting that you're gonna have to do with yourself but you already have the answer yeah and the teacher doesn't know what somebody's path is this you know their story may be about getting off track for decades it may be you know a lifetime of loss to get what they need to get you just you just don't know the makeup of somebody's spirit you need to let them walk in their own. You just, you just don't know the makeup of somebody's spirit. You need to let them walk in their own way and be there. Just, just be that go along for the ride. So, uh, you get fired from your company. Yeah. Like how do you pick up the pieces and move

forward from that? Very quickly. Uh, within a week I had, you know had the skeleton of my new site. I needed money. My credit cards were racked. I had co-signed a bunch of business loans to the company personally outside of the incorporation. Did the company just crater after you were gone, or what happened to it? It took them a few months,

but you can't be like so-and-so and Danielle and not have the Danielle. And then there's like karma. So yeah. And I thought, well, I may have just been canned, but I can help people start their own businesses and learn how to rock it online.

I'll do these one-on-one sessions. Let's call them. I'll call them fire starter sessions. And it was just a little blog post. I had 60 subscribers when I started, mostly friends. I got a major hand smack for trying to steal my old emails from my own old company. I actually had to surreptitiously go get my Twitter handle from Twitter. These are the days where Twitter actually had customer service.

And I did these one-on-one sessions. They were $300 an hour. Within six months, it was $1,000 a session, and I had a six-month waiting list. And I went on the road. I would go wherever anybody would have me. I would pay for my own flight, my own hotel room. And if you could get 20 chicks in a living room for like 100 bucks a pop,

I was just going to talk at you. And I would run through business ideas. I was exhausted after these sessions. I was like, OK, who's your ideal customer? We just went through everything. And I did 16 cities in a year. Just about dad. And the basic structure of these Firestarter sessions was what?

Like what walked me through? Hey, it's four hours with Danielle. And she's done a few things, and she's opinionated, and she's been a publicist, and she raised some money. And Danielle's going to talk to you about angel investors. There is no such thing. And yeah, come one, come all. And so geeks were showing up and people who wanted to launch an app and wedding photographers

and chefs and authors. A lot of people were showing up for publishing advice. And I ran them through what became known as the burning questions. Why do you want to make what you want to make? Yeah. And after that track, that hall, I had a book called The Firestarter Sessions. Right. So super grassroots. And through that process of doing that time and time again in city after city, I would imagine certain principles and ideas start to congeal that form the backbone of that book.

And I realized we're living in the midst of a tragedy that nobody was giving themselves permission to even want what they wanted, let alone go after it. What do you think that's about? Oh, my God. We are bred to please. And I think from the time we're born, we are talked out of our feelings. It's like our brain is messed with in that most basic level from infancy you're not tired you don't be sad don't be angry don't be angry i mean that messaging that those are lies this is really

confusing our wiring but wait i am sad but wait and then and then you go to school right right and then that's a whole other thing it's a whole different hijacks you know your whole operating system how do you think about that with respect to being a parent how old is your son now? He just turned 13. Yeah, he's magic. That's cool. Our daughter's 13. That's so... You know, this age for me is... You know, you always want to be with your kids,

I mean, for the most part. You know, that dedication is there. But now it's pedal to the metal time because I'm just like, oh my God, in like three, four years, he could be backpacking Europe. He's like a really independent kid like he could really i can't even really talk about it it's the onset of adulthood it's

happening right now danielle yeah you gotta prepare so i just like but how does he like how does he navigate school and how do you parent him through the pitfalls of of you know that that of that hijack. Yeah. He is regularly preached at in the kitchen. I am unabashed about brainwashing him to think in a holistic way, to question everything. So this started in nursery school. Teachers said we should not talk to strangers. That's crap.

Somebody talked to me about heaven and hell. That's crap. Let me tell you how it works. Draw within the lines. Draw within the lines. You know, we look at fashion magazines and like, come on over here. I want to show you something. These are not real breasts.

Nobody has legs like this. She could not stand up if this were you know um there's lots of conversations in our house about pornography it's just information information information it's the it's it's the only way to combat the lies that we swim in all the time it's just i gotta get there before the lies do And I have to shatter them when they show up in his life. And yet at the same time, you bid him adieu every morning as he goes to school and is getting a different kind of information that you're not in control of. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I don't have the time or the disposition to homeschool. So, you know, I got to take the risk. Yeah. Yeah. And that's life. And so what kind of kid is he? Like, what is he into? And how do you kind of support that he's super creative he is introverted but very kind like he is

he's an introverted leader i'm super down with that uh he really cares about what he looks right looks like right now super stylish i think that's an expression of his creativity so i'm really supporting that and he's a deep river but he only shares his opinions in really i think tasteful private ways he's not like pushing it on anybody um yeah he's a sensitive guyensitive guy. And I just lost my train of thought. What was I going to say? Well, I'll tell you one really important thing about my way of being with him. I don't even think of it so much as parenting. Like, I'm in a relationship with this person.

Is that I don't have this mindset where I'm preparing him for the future. I don't have this mindset where I'm preparing him for the future. This whole way of like building character, I think is creating a lot of falsity for kids. It's like, it's pushing us to force our children to do things that they don't want to do a lot of the time because it builds character for something that may or may not happen in the future. Give me an example of that.

Got to learn how to play team sports because you know you're going to be on a team someday right well you know maybe not maybe he's just going to be an independent art yet yes society is its own team this is not what lights him up my job is to help him become a master at what he is good at to like know himself and i don't think that comes through sucking it up and i remember what i was going to ask you which is uh is he able to hear you or is it like come on mom like enough with that right like every kid on some level yeah you know pushes back yeah there's lots of eye rolling there's lots of stuff he just thinks it's weird like enough really with the oils the essential oil did this that and now you know doesn't matter what you tell your kids they're going to roll their eyes it's part of them

differentiating and becoming individuals so i'm just going to show up with, they're going to roll their eyes. It's part of them differentiating and becoming individuals. So I'm just going to show up with my, I'm going to wave my freak flag with my kid, and he's going to absorb what works for him. And if he wants to bolt and become ultra-conservative. Like go be an investment banker yeah then like that's his path and okay peace so how do you how do you think about um this culture of you know celebrating participation you know everybody gets a you know with kids it's like everybody gets a trophy. You know, we can't distinguish the winners from the losers and reconciling that with, like, honesty.

Oh, God, that's a great one. Because, you know, I'm just, oh, just a love bug. And I don't want the kids to be hurt. I love inclusion. Oh, but you have to go find what you're going to be a winner at. So, you know, when I told you a winner at everything, it's just not true. Helpful, not helpful. I mean, look, I was one of those kids who got the participant ribbon for the track meets.

And I just thought this may as well say loser on it. Like, let's get really real, right? So I don't think you're fooling anybody. I think the answer is to find other ways, like expanded ways, more ways of competing and showing up. Like, art was not celebrated when I went to school. I would have got the first place ribbon for that, but sports was.

So I had to go make my way to find a place in life where I would get some metaphorical trophy for my self-expression. I don't think we celebrate a great enough variety of talents in the so-called educational system. No, because there's only a couple. I mean, what about a ribbon for empathy? Right.

Oh, no. Yeah, that's radical. Yeah. Well, our education system is in great need of repair in many, many ways. Yeah, I think destruction really needs to be taken down and something new needs to be born. Well, it's cool. People are doing interesting things.

I just had Adam Braun on the podcast, and he's doing cool stuff at Higher Education now with Mission U. And our daughters, we homeschooled our daughters for many years, but now they're at this school called Muse. That's around the corner from here. That's really an experimental school that was started by James Cameron's wife and her sister. And it's really cool. Like they're thriving in that environment. And when you go and do your parent teacher conference, it is about like, oh my, it's not about like, you know, grades or

anything like that. It's like, this is, let me talk to you about like how your child is interacting with other human beings and what really lights them up and how we can support that. And, you know, it's, it's pretty cool and refreshing and definitely unique and beautiful, you know, progressive certainly. And, and perhaps not perfect either, but an interesting step in a, in an intriguing direction, I think. And it would be cool to see more schools breaking out of the, you know, the paradigm that was created in 18, whenever, uh, that in certain respects is just, it's antiquated now. And I mean, this is part of the truth conversation with my kid, right? Is I let him know on a weekly basis, my exact words are, let's be really clear,

sweetheart, the educational system is failing you. So we're going to go to an art class this weekend. I mean, I'm taking him in a couple of weeks. I'm taking him to an art class with Alex Gray, who's like all about esoteric, cosmic, you know, and I'm just like. I have his book like right over there. Oh, underneath all those hats. Beautiful, tapped in. I'm just like, so I just need to check.

Are there going to be any psychedelics at this event because i'm bringing my 13 year old and they're like well there's gonna be a nude model i'm like i'm down with that great we need to see a naked body in a non-sexualized context um my kid was like is that really okay i was like we gotta make it okay dude yeah yeah it'll be cool he might be a little uncomfortable with his mom there for a minute yeah all right so what what you so when you start you're gonna like do that you're you're doing these fire starter sessions you create this book what when is this like 2009 i'm really bad with years but yeah i think that's about right yeah yeah and the book like does amazing right

well the book does well first i come out with a digital edition i want to own my own copyright i'm also in another one another one of those um major life passages where i'm going through my first divorce so i'm divorced and married the same person more than once yeah let's get into that and um i needed to move out so i would i was teaching myself how to work iMovie. And I would pack a box, because I'm leaving. And I would cry. And I would then get tea bags, put tea bags on my eyes. And I would go upstairs and film a little module about stamina and writer's block

and knowing how much money you want to make every year. And I launched that and I did begin with the end in mind. I wanted a book deal. And I had my first big launch day. I didn't do any velvet rope kind of marketing. I was just like, hey, it's me. If you want it now, I'll give it to you sooner. You can have the first chapter.

I have 18 more chapters to write. I've only written one. Do you want it now? And you want it to you sooner. You can have the first chapter. I have 18 more chapters to write. I've only written one. Do you want it now? And you want to pay me full price? And people did. And that gave me enough to move. And I finished the book. And that led to a deal with one of the big five publishers.

And then came the desire map. Right. Yeah. So that was directly in the wake of that deal. You just immediately launched into starting to put that book together. Yeah. I planted the seed. So now we're on desire map land.

I planted a paragraph or a chapter in Firestarter Sessions that I knew was the entire next book. Firestarter sessions that I knew was the entire next book. And I did this really weird hybrid deal for that, for Desire Map. I basically baked the book myself and then did a deal with a publisher and said, just help me get this out and let's see how this works. And wow, I mean, that has become, that's one of the pillars of my temple. Right. I mean, so that book came out when? Do you remember?

2010? 2011? It's somewhere in the copyright page. Right. All right. Well, it doesn't matter. It's just how I'm wired. It came out.

It was huge. Yeah. It changed lives. And I think it was an interesting time when you really established yourself as this online presence it was like around i think it was around like 2007 2008 around that time where where blogging was emerging as like this this big thing right and there was definitely like a land grab of outspoken interesting voices who were you know putting their imprimatur on the digital landscape. You were certainly one of them.

It seems like it's different now. Like if you like blogging doesn't feel like what it was like then. Do you sense that? Like, I feel like if you were going to start a blog now, it would be a whole different journey. Well, I think a lot of us burned out. Like in those days, it was all about, you were going to blog daily and we all realized it wasn't sustainable because hello lifestyle.

I mean, the only who can blog daily Seth Godin, but he's a unicorn and I don't know how he does it. He's still doing it. Yeah. He's still doing it. I don't think so. Yeah.

And still is cooking his vegan meals. And yeah. Yeah. So he's like on another stratosphere. And writing books like every other week too. Yeah, like highly prolific. For us humans, realized you can't do that and make product at the same time and be a good partner and do speaking gigs.

And we're also, we had to learn what language in terms of media we were going to speak. It's like, you know, not long after that, you know, after everybody learned how to work WordPress, then it was everybody had to vlog. And I was like, you know, that's not my language. I'm doing a lot of video stuff now, but I actually feel really lame just sitting there doing videos in my own space. It's not my my i want to write so and for people who weren't comfortable writing vlogging was their thing um where were we going with that well how the landscape the digital landscape has changed and evolved yeah i mean like i think to become a blogger today and and and be a breakout in that sphere, I think would be very difficult.

I think it is very difficult. Because I think there's a lot of things that have changed. And one of the biggest things is that the landscape has been disintermediated. So it's less about driving traffic to your own site, and it's more about meeting people where they already are. That's right. And that's a huge difference, right? Because it was all about trying to get as many people to come come to your website and that seems to be less important now yeah it used

to be like blasphemous to cross-pollinate you would never post your your blog post on facebook as well because you were driving for the clicks on your home page and now you're exactly right it's all like every platform you can hit someone every multimedia language you can talk in. Right. So if you're blogging, you're putting it on your site, but you're also putting it on Facebook and you're posting it on medium and you're like, you're going all over the, just to find where people already are. Mm-hmm. And that's manageable. And you can do that without losing your mind because micro content is really working for a lot of people so i can just

put 30 seconds up on instagram that are really that's really meaningful for people and i can put my full five minutes on facebook um i think you know the shadowy side that's coming up with where we're at is i think there's some forced authenticity, right? Like I'm going to get really real and I'm going to get really raw and I'm going to drop as many fucking F-bombs as I fucking can, you know, just to like create that edginess and that sound bell. And yuck. Yeah, I had written down on my notes here to ask you what you think about when you hear the word

authenticity yeah overused underrated look everybody's being authentic at all at all times really they're doing their best they're they're posing because they're trying to make some money, feed their kids, get ahead, get approval from the father who never said they love them. Like we're all doing, even if we are obviously an imposter, we are being authentically fake. I mean, and I'm not just splitting words about that. splitting words about that so i think there is a fad where transparency has become a gimmick and it's really unfortunate because what's happening for the person who is using that to get attention is it's actually really damaging in the end. They're getting further away from their true self, their authentic self. You can't help but feel disconnected if you're

doing that. And you're going to share a lot of things that you regret sharing. Some things that are really sacred that you should have let bake and really turn into a lesson. Some things are private until they turn into the teachable moment. Yeah. I think in order for authenticity to connect with another individual, there has to be some maturity and introspection about what that actually is. Like, what is it that you're communicating and like, what is the why behind it yeah what's your intention why why so raw that's really what that's the question to ask and a crazy story or shock value isn't necessarily authentic especially if it's if the why behind it is to is to just get attention you know what i mean like that seems inauthentic to me. Right. You know, what's really authentic is your reason for serving people. That's what I'm

most interested in. Like if you're not of service, if you don't have a triple bottom line, I'm just not attracted to it. And it's okay. Go do your thing. It's not even this broad stroke judgment. It's just like i'm really interested in people who want to be helpful and from that place if you can really talk about that why then it becomes really magnetic i think that's the secret sauce so what is your why my why it has everything to do with light for me i mean light is my it's my word it's my practice it's my elixir and all things. It's about illumination. I want to, I want to be self-expressed because I feel, I feel full. It's a turn on. I feel good. I feel joy. And I want to help people get to their own truth. Like it's really about liberation. Please can just one thing I say help you put down a shackle?

Can you just be a little more of yourself today because I told you how I used to fake it? That's all. Yeah, I mean, when I get on stage, my prayer is very simple. Help me shine so I can help other people shine. Just be you without fear. What I like about that is that it's rooted in emotion and feeling as opposed to like a concrete, you know, quote unquote goal.

Like you could have said, you know, my why is, yeah, I'm going to impact a million people or I'm going to, you know, achieve this is, yeah, I'm going to impact a million people or I'm going to, you know, achieve this benchmark or what have you. And so it reminded me of something you talk about all the time, which is the sort of pitfalls of setting goals and focusing more on like the feelings that you aspire to inhabit in your day to day. And look, it's not, and look it's not it's not for me to say who i impact i i it's immeasurable um it you know people come up to me and say really lovely positive supportive things and i used to deflect it a bit and that was my own self-worth stuff like oh hey whatever that's cool you got something and just go i didn't want to take it in. Now I really, you know, I take it in and I feel the sweetness of

that and the real, you know, that's like an intimate moment when someone thanks you for giving them an idea that helped them. But then I am really quick to say from a healthy place, has nothing to do with me. You did all the work so you could just hear the right thing at the right time that tipped you over in that one way. It's all about resonance. And this is part of my soapbox right now, is to reframe the teachings you're getting from other people and your own wisdom. So it's not like he gave me the answer

or he facilitated this breakthrough. It's like I did my work and I showed up and I was able to get it. Or I really related with that masterful teaching. Yeah, own it and be reverent at the same time. It's a beautiful combination. So I would trust that that's sort of that's sort of the specific why behind the white hot white hot truth right the new book like that's that's kind of informing that narrative i want you to respect your own opinions and get down into that place

of self-compassion where you're really loving yourself while you're really hating yourself because that's where the medicine happens and then and this is just my own agenda very open about this i would really love it if you got off your ass and you gave selflessly to the world because that's the key man yeah that's the key yeah no one likes to hear that but that's the truth behind it all. It's so simple, and it's so magical and powerful. Everything. It's a difficult leap for a lot of people, though. Yeah, because we want what we want.

But I think everything, everything, everything you're craving on a soul level, a level it's all in the service you can get it all if you hand your life over to helping other people in some way it's all there it feels it feels like a relinquishing of of self-reliance and self-determination and self-sovereignty though and so it like lands as something that's threatening, I think. It scares people. Because if they're doing that, then they're not moving their own life forward and they're falling behind. That's what it is, yeah.

Yeah, I think you jump to this conclusion that you're going to have to go without in order to be so generous and giving. And in my experience, it hasn't worked that way at all. Universal law dictates otherwise. Truth. You know? Yeah. and in my experience it hasn't worked that way universal law dictates otherwise truth you know yeah um i want to talk about uh the kind of shame of suffering uh that a lot of people inhabit um you know people that are seeking in this world uh who feel like they can't get it right or they sort of flog themselves for falling short of you know being able

to adhere to the listicle of whatever the seven things are they're supposed to do every day who kind of suffer quietly i'm one of those yeah me too and i have the imposter syndrome yeah yeah what do you what do you think you're what are you faking oh i just i just can't you know i'm just expecting somebody to knock on the door right now and say what are you doing you're not supposed to be doing the podcast police who do you think you yeah who are you to like think that you can sit down with people like danielle and talk to them oh i just like all the time so when people come up to you and they say wow you know your story and addiction cleaned it all up and vegan and service and high-mindedness and stuff

and you changed my life man like i want to know two things a how do you feel and b like what's your response yeah i feel uh quite often i feel awkward with that because i don't feel like i i uh on some level i i'm like i immediately start thinking of like yeah but if you really knew what i was really like and who i really am and you know the story's not that crazy there's plenty of people that have much more inspiring stories. You know, like I immediately reduce myself, minimize myself. And I resist the urge to be dismissive because, like you said earlier, like who am I to judge their experience of what I'm putting out into the world? And so I've tried to mature and grow into a place where I can be grateful and receive it and honor that. and grow into a place where I can be grateful and receive it and honor that. But when I hear it,

like, and I do hear it, you know, regularly, there still is that sense of like, like, did I make it up? Like, am I lying? Like, how honest am I really being like, if he really thinks that, like, maybe he's not really getting it, you know what I mean? And so that's a challenge. That's a challenge for me. And then reconciling that with, you of awareness that there is some purpose to what I'm doing. And it does seem to be helping people in some regards, certain people. And to just be not only accepting of that, but grateful and responsible. and responsible. Like, okay, if that person is getting that, like, how can I do better? How can I serve that? How can I serve the message? And how can I carry this resonance in a way

that can be even more impactful and more substantive to people that could really catalyze long-lasting change in their life? But there is definitely, you know, I battle with the imposter syndrome with that. And all you have to do is go and read like a negative review of your book on him you know my book on amazon to read like i can find reinforcement for that if i want hey you know

what i'll give i'll let you off the hook on that one eckhart tolle does not read his book reviews because that very reason of the one negative review i um went to a talk of his and he said he found you know that one negative review was very sticky in his consciousness those were his exact words and it pulled him out of his center and i was like damn if eckhart is getting thrown off by a negative review on amazon i'm giving myself permission to not go there so i don't read any of my reviews anymore yeah that's wise counsel yeah wise counsel so what was i asking you um i totally forgot because you i turned it around i don't know that you flipped it on me like i indulged you but let's get back on track oh we were talking we were going to talk about suffering right and yeah the shame around suffering. So if you're on the path, this is what happens. You know, you get sick and you just think,

have I not been dealing with my family of origin stuff? Do I need to meditate more? Do I need to clean up my diet? Like it's this instant self-recrimination for not being holistic enough. It's this instant self-recrimination for not being holistic enough. And my remedy for that has been to leave a lot of room for mystery. I could be sick for 10 different reasons, and it doesn't mean that I've been this holistic loser. Just give it some space.

We'll figure out why. Or it's karmic payback. It's karmic payback,'s karmic payback yeah somehow it's your fault and at the same time someone can say to me you know they can take the this you know the really logic linear approach and say well you got sick because you've been on a lot of airplanes and i'm like no dude actually that's not how it works for me like there's something going on in my system, psychologically, spiritually, biologically, that left me vulnerable to get sick on those airplanes. And I've got to figure out what it is.

But there's some shame in that. Yeah. And that's where the self-compassion has to come in. I had a really, really powerful experience recently. I was in Australia doing a tour, and I've been really open about the fact that almost before every speaking gig, I get sick. I actually just did my first gig a couple weeks ago

without getting sick, and it was like this major victory. And so Australia was no exception to that. And the day before a big gig, I'm so happy it's sold out. I've got a sinus infection. I'm in bed. And with me and a respiratory predisposition, that's going to turn into some bronchial thing, pneumonia. I'm going to die.

I'm not going to make it home from Australia, right? And instead, this is usually what happens with me, is while I am praying and meditating and contemplating and asking for universal support to get well, I kind of sneak in this wish that I'll never get sick again. Like I've got to end this habit. I have to end this pattern. I've got to knock off this routine of getting sick. And I realized I was really leaking all of this energy that I could have put towards just compassion and wellness and curing myself in that moment and not trying to fix the future. Future tripping. This was a huge revelation for me. And it got me to this other layer of compassion that I hadn't considered before.

And courage of like, I'm just going to fix me now. And acceptance. This is where you're at right now. This is where I'm at now. And if I get sick again, it's not because I've messed up. I'll deal with it then. And it's just like, I felt like I just got, you know, 4X energy back to deal with what was really happening.

Do you get nervous when you go on stage? No. No? No. That's your home, huh? That's my home, yeah. How often are you doing speaking stuff? Well, a lot now because it's book gig time.

I took a year off, and that was a really valuable thing because I was really starting to resent getting fed stale muffins when I got off stage. I was like, really? This is all you got for me? And I was just like, okay, Danielle, you need a break. And something has shifted in me where even though I've always felt at home, on stage, there was some obligation to it, like it was part of the hustle. And now there's this new kind of service and hunger, like, give me the mic, I have something to say.

And I'm so much more loving about it. Yeah. I want to get back to this idea of the why, the why behind it all, you know, the why behind your seeking and the why behind what motivates people and the why behind the goals that people share with you, right? Like, so for me, somebody will come up to me and say, you know, I'm training for my first marathon or my first Ironman or, you know, I'm going vegan or whatever it is, it doesn't matter, but it's usually like a goal that's kind of in the vein of the things that I have experience with and followed by, you know, what are, you know, what are some tips that you can share with me? Or can you help me cross that threshold?

And my first question is always, why are you doing this? Why do you want to run a marathon? What is going on in your life that crossing a finish line at a race has value for you? And a lot of times, that's met with a thud. That's a shocking question yeah because i think in my experience and because i've been in this place myself most people again myself included are very disconnected from themselves from what's making their heart beat like they don't have a healthy relationship with their impulses and their instincts and what drives them, uh, let alone, you know, a rudimentary understanding of how that

wiring works. So the impulse to run a marathon or whatever is generally doesn't have to do with, it has to do with something that's completely under, under wraps, right. That they might not even consciously be aware of. So I'm sure when people come to your, you know, come to you or come to your sessions or, you know, email you, it's like, I'm starting this business or an Etsy store, or I want to do this or that. And I can envision you asking the same question. And are you met with that similar kind of response? You know, what is it what is your experience with that i'm obsessed with the why and yeah it's that i i get a similar kind of fluttering there's a little that kind of head tilt the puppy head tilt and it's really we're set we're set up to set these goals right like we're a goal-driven culture yeah yeah uh it's 50 50 some people are really clear because they've examined

it and it feels almost you know like i i don't believe in destiny but there's this destined quality to it and the people who are mystified by the why question and it's just been this kind of sequential coasting like well this was the next thing or it kind of fell into my lap it's just been this kind of sequential coasting. Like, well, this was the next thing. Or it kind of fell into my lap. It's gone unexamined. And then comes the next question, which is, well, how does this make you feel? And that's where you really get to the heart of it. Yeah.

I feel like your book is a pathway towards that, right? Like getting at the why. You use your own personal experience of searching, but it's all driven around trying to get people to understand that the journey towards the why is the jewel that will unlock everything that follows. So don't set the goal until you can really own that why. And the process of unpacking that and getting to the core of that is that

internal, you know, that internal wrestling, you know, spiritually, emotionally, mentally. And there is no right way or wrong way to do that, but you have to do it. A really potentially offensive, powerful question is who are you trying to impress? And that really cracked me open and I realized that even though I'd let go of this Catholic God having been raised that way, I was still trying to impress some other cosmic

committee. It was still, there was still this striving. And if you can drill down, I mean, this is like more of a therapeutic thing. I don't want to bring people through this process, but as an individual, everybody listening, if you can like just bring your dream up in front of you and lay that, who do you want to impress question on it you might be really surprised like hopefully ideally you're really trying to impress yourself um hopefully ideally maybe you're not even trying to impress yourself like developing an appreciation of of what is impulsing your behavior yeah and how much of that is rooted in externalities yes yes that's a very ritual

brilliant way to put it well yeah so how do we how do we move from from that towards trying to serve our own best interests for ourselves to be that quote-unquote authentic version of ourselves. How do we do that, Danielle? Well, let me tell you, Rich Roll, there's seven easy steps. Yeah. In your micro blog, you're going to share this, right? Well, I'll just tweet about it later, and we'll just crush it right now. Hashtag enlightened.

Enlightened. we'll just crush it right now. Hashtag enlightened. I think you're going to be motivated by two things, pain or pleasure. That's it. Pick one. So do you want to just be, do you want to be done with heavy, constricted, restricted, oppressed, not at home, cranky, agitated, empty, empty lonely not enough intimacy unmet that's cool that will motivate a lot of change that will have you look within for sure

so know where the wound is or do you want to be inspired i mean motivation is externally or do you want to be inspired? I mean, motivation is externally presented to you. Inspiration is internal. Do you want to be inspired by the dream and the desire for the opposite of all those things? For wholeness and connection and flourishing and joy and ease. I think everybody just wants ease, you know?

Pick what's going to drive you. We want it, but there's a vast crevasse between the want and the action. Yeah. Well, I don't have a lot of patience for the crevasse. Yeah. Yeah. And how bad do you want it? This is where the tough love of esoterics comes in. Like, want it this is where the tough love of esoterics comes in like because if you don't want about enough no no chick in a podcast in malibu is going to be able to help jesus could come down from the heavens and give you the tweet on a silver platter he could take you to the clinic and you still are not going to make the changes so it really does get down to desire and your desire will be driven by pain or pleasure there's really no conversation

right because what gets thrown out well that's great yeah i get it but you know you don't understand my problems you know and all the reasons why I can't do that. And that's when I leave the conversation. Like it's not as, you know, as someone who's on a soapbox, I am very clear. I'm not here to convert anybody. I don't even need to compel you. Just if you resonate, great.

I feel useful. That's super. If you want to stay where you're at that's your path i respect that you may need an intervention you may need another 10 years of of really being in the negative shit but i don't want to argue with you about why you want to justify your stuckness what i can can do as a loving, compassionate person is say, I believe you can do it. I believe it's your birthright to be fulfilled. I am, I'll tell you, I am hooked on potential.

That's just, that's me personally speaking. I can see it. I can see you're sexy. I can, I just heard some see you're sexy. I can, I just heard some brilliance in that question. It's there. So I see you. I acknowledge you.

Up to you now, dude. I think that's a good place to wrap it up. That was beautifully put. I love it, Danielle. What is, what's,

what's like left for you? What's the stone that's still not overturned? It's deeply personal. Yeah. No one's listening. Come on. On the next podcast we do together, yeah maybe cool well the book is fantastic white hot truth everybody check it out out march 15th i mean may may 15th may 16th may 16th tuesday

yeah may 16th that's super exciting it's uh it's super fun to read i mean it's just fun you know like you can just rip through it and there's just so many jewels and pearls in there that I think are going to really help a lot of people. So I applaud you for writing it. And I think it's a book that says so much that hasn't been said yet, most importantly, in a canon of self-help books

that often seem like retreads of old ideas. It's very fresh. In some ways, it's the anti-self-help books that often seem like retreads of old ideas it's it's very fresh in some ways it's the anti-self-help self-help book right it's like enough with this already yeah a little bit right and uh you know it is it is beautifully articulated in your very trademark uh danielle style right aesthetics are important that's something you talk about as well right yeah helvetica forever yeah i mean the reason why you stuck with that font i did and the reason why i went you know rogue with this in terms of publishing and doing it myself was because i wanted my damn gold foil no publisher would ever give me gold foil and i just i'll do it myself yeah is this the first well aside from the very first book that then went to a major publisher No publisher would ever give me gold foil. And I just said, I'll do it myself. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Is this the first, well, aside from the very first book that then went to a major publisher. So this is the first like kind of big book that you're doing on your own. Yeah. That's exciting. Yeah. I mean, it is, wow. It is like lion amount of work to do this. But I'm setting myself up to publish other people's stuff.

I mean, that's really the next evolution. Oh, that's great. Yeah, I want to broadcast. I want to broadcast the real deals that are out there. Any last pearls of wisdom for the listener out there who perhaps is feeling a little bit stuck and is done with all of those excuses and reasons why not and is looking for all of those excuses and reasons why not and is looking for

a little activation weren't you listening yeah we said it all right you said it all i think we're good right we are so good and you know what i just want to say publicly because no one's listening rich you are really being of service to the world. And the content you're putting out there is like golden substance. And yeah, just really deep honor for what you're doing. I appreciate that. Thanks a lot. It means a lot to me. I don't take it for granted at all.

There's a lot of podcasts out there. There's a lot of demands on people's content enjoyment. And that's very nice of you to say. So thank you. All right. The White Hat Truth, Danielle Laporte. How do you feel? Good? Grateful. So grateful. Lit up. Thank you. Thanks for coming over. And good luck with the book and the launch. If there's anything I can do for you or to be of service to you, please reach out. And I'm excited to see how this plays and to get this book into the hands of a lot of people. I think it's going to help them a lot. So thanks for coming by today and being so open and honest. My honor. Danielle Laporte is very easy to find on the

internet. You can go to daniellelaporte.com. You can type in half her name into Google and it'll finish it for you and find the websites for you. But Danielle Laporte is the primary place to find all things Danielle. And you're just daniellelaporte on Twitter, Instagram, all those places, right? I am. Just me. You are in health etica all the way, baby. Forever. All right. Thanks. Thank you. Peace. Plants. Oh, we didn't talk about being vegan you want to talk about being vegan yeah okay are you still vegan we communicated a little about that i know you were taking a stab at it vegetarian stop here vegetarian you're vegetarian vegetarian i thought all right yeah the the interview you did with melanie brown is that her name melanie joy

dr melanie joy that is like some revolutionary stuff. Yeah. I could no longer justify eating animals. I got tired of apologizing to the chicken every time I ate the chicken. Yeah. It's too much cognitive dissonance. Yeah. You come into that understanding and it means something to you, I think.

Yeah. It was not loving. Well, that's cool. That's great. Let me know if I can help you out with that. Yeah. You come into that understanding and it means something to you, I think. Yeah. It was not loving. Well, that's cool. That's great. Let me know if I can help you out with that. Okay. All right. We'll talk about that more next time.

Okay. All right. All right. Thanks, Danielle. All right. Well, we did it. I found that delightful. I hope you did, too.

Please check out Danielle's new book, White Hot Truth. Track her down on Instagram or Twitter at Danielle Laporte. Visit her website, daniellelaporte.com. Give her a follow. Give her a shout out. Let her know how much you appreciated hearing from her on the podcast. I know I did. And I'm sure she'll be back.

Hopefully she'll be back. If you would like to support this show and my work, you can do it in a number of ways. You can share the show with your friends and on social media. That's awesome. You can leave a review on iTunes. Doubly awesome. Please subscribe on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast content. That's amazing. And also, every time you go to Amazon, if you click through the Amazon banner ad on my site, richroll.com, or you type in richroll.com forward slash Amazon. It will take you to Amazon. Buy whatever you're going to buy.

Doesn't cost you anything extra. Amazon kicks us commissions on those purchases. I don't know what you buy. I have no information about any of that, but that really does help support my work. And I appreciate everybody who has made a habit of that. You can just bookmark it on your browser also so you don't have to visit my site every time or remember anything about what i just said also we have a patreon and i want to thank everybody who has gone the extra mile to support my work financially that's really huge and amazing i appreciate that

there's a banner ad for that also on every episode page of the site if you would like to receive a free short weekly email from me i send one out out every Thursday. It's called Roll Call. It's got five or six or four or three, usually five or six, just tips, tools, resources. I stumbled across over the course of a week, usually a documentary or a couple articles I read, the book that I'm reading,

a podcast that I listen to. No spam, no affiliate links. I'm not trying to make any money. A lot of this stuff. I also don't share on social media or on my blog. I just wanted to create, you know, a cool closed loop with those that are more intrigued, uh, about what I'm doing and what I have to say, then perhaps the passive listener. So it's free. You can sign up on my website in a myriad of places where you just enter, uh thing. Super easy. For all your

Plant Power merch and swag needs, you can find that at richroll.com. We've got signed copies of Finding Ultra and the Plant Power Way. We've got t-shirts, tech tees for running, all kinds of fun stuff. I want to thank today's sponsors, Health IQ, life insurance designed for the active and health conscious. Never overpay again. To learn more and get a free quote, go to healthiq.com forward slash roll. And Casper, the number one online retailer of premium mattresses for a fraction of the price. Get $50 towards any mattress purchased today by visiting casper.com forward slash roll

and using promo code roll at checkout. I also want to thank everybody who helped put on today's show, Jason Camiolo for audio engineering and production and help with the show notes. He's taking on an expanded role with the podcast. Thanks, Jason. You're doing an amazing job. Sean Patterson for all his wizardry on graphics. He does all those cool motion graphics that I've been sharing on Instagram. He's doing an amazing job. Theme music by Annalema. Thanks for the love, you guys. I'll see you back here next week. In the meantime, make it great.

Peace. Plants. Thank you.