The Rich Roll Podcast - Do Epic Sh*t! Robin Arzón on The Power of Sacred Moments and Embracing Failure

Episode Date: March 27, 2015

I'm really excited to have Robin Arzón back on the show this week. From corporate lawyer to ambassador of sweat and swagger, Robin brings the heat with unique personal style and an unwavering confidence that is matched only by her unlimited vivaciousness. In the event you missed it, I highly recommend going back and listening to our first conversation, RRP #99. You also might want to go back and read (or re-read) the blog post I wrote for that one, because it's kind of awesome. Longtime listeners know Robin is all about story. The power of story. How to properly own your story. How to properly tell your story. The capacity for story to catalyze positive change in others. And the capability we all inherently have to let go of whatever negative story we tell ourselves about ourselves — and instead form an entirely new one. To recap, only three years ago Robin was living a completely different life — toiling away as a corporate lawyer at one of the world’s most prestigious law firms. But a near-death experience being held hostage at gunpoint several years prior gave her the courage to not only begin a new chapter of her life, but to — you guessed it — tell an entirely new story about herself. Robin jumped out on her secure career without a parachute, soared on faith arms spread wide and glided down to a graceful landing on the downtown streets of lower Manhattan like a glorious bird of prey clad in blinding color and a pair of chartreuse running shoes. How do you describe someone who defies definition itself? Robin is so many things I struggle to find words to capture a spirit that can only be properly understood by experiencing her first hand. Nonetheless, I'll give it a shot. Today Robin is a NYC-based urban, bridge-running force of nature; an accomplished ultramarathoner (she once ran 5 marathons in 5 days across Utah); a running coach; a cycling instructor; and a consultant to some of the biggest brands in the world, like Nike, Adidas and Puma. Not enough? She's also a lifestyle entrepreneur as well the co-founder and publisher of a relatively new magazine called UNDO. Where sweat meets culture, it's a gorgeous, high quality production that can be found worldwide in places like Urban Outfitters. But Robin is not immune from obstacles. About a year ago, she faced a unforeseen new challenge: Type 1 Diabetes. Not one to let her illness limit, let alone define her, Robin navigates this setback with the poised demeanor she meets everything — simply another opportunity to empower and inspire others to get out of their comfort zone and, in Robin's words: do epic shit. As a father of two little girls, I am inspired by her shining example of positive female empowerment. It gives me hope. And she never fails to put a smile on my face while simultaneously challenging my own preconceptions about what is possible for both myself and others. This conversation picks up where RRP #99 left off, delving further into Robin's story.

realizing that we can actually live with a lot less combined with the fact that we are capable of more than we can possibly imagine is actually one of the most powerful things that's the one and only robin r's on and this you guessed it is the rich roll podcast hey guys rich roll here back again invading your earbuds very grateful and honored to bring you another outstanding podcast for your elucidation, your enjoyment, your education, and your infotainment. If you're new to the show, the mission is simple but powerful to help you and me, let's face it, I have as much to learn as anybody, live and be better, to become who you really are. So each week I sit down with some of the best and the brightest, the most forward-thinking, paradigm-busting minds across all categories of life, health, and excellence. I do my best to engage them as deeply as possible so that I can serve to assist you in discovering, uncovering, unlocking, and unleashing your best, most authentic self.

self. Thank you for being enough of a health and wellness and sustainability and inspiration junkie to tune in today, to subscribe to the show on iTunes and spend a little time with me. I appreciate all of you who have been spreading the word, your friends and your colleagues, everybody who has subscribed to my newsletter, and particularly everybody who has clicked through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. As you know, this is a huge thing for us. And we thank you, everybody who has honored this show by making that a practice. So got Robin Arzon back on the show today, from corporate lawyer to ambassador of sweat and swagger. I'm pretty excited about that. I had her on last August. That was episode 99. Check that out if you missed it. It's an awesome one. She made quite the impression, one of my most popular guests to date. So I was delighted to sit down with her again when I was in New York City a while back, and she does not disappoint. More on that in a couple of few, but first. More on that in a couple of few, but first... We're brought to you today by recovery.com.

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and an unlimited supply of fun and positivity and inspiration into everything that she does. If you listen to episode 99, then you know that Robin is all about story, the power of story, how to own and tell your story, and the power we all have to let go of whatever story you tell yourself about yourself that no longer serves you and form an entirely new one. Just three years ago, Robin was living a completely different life. She was toiling away as a corporate lawyer at one of the most prestigious law firms in the country, but a near-death experience of being held hostage at gunpoint several years prior gave her the courage to tell a new story about herself. She walked out on her secure career, she stepped into faith,

and now she's this badass New York City-based urban bridge-running force of nature. She's an accomplished ultra-marathoner. She once ran five marathons in five days across Utah. She's a running coach. She's a cycling instructor. And she's a consultant to some of the biggest brands in the world, brands like Nike and Adidas and Puma. And now she's facing a new challenge. About a year ago, she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. And I just love and admire her courage and how she's taken on this fight and has turned it into a way of being of service to other people, to inspire other people who deal with this affliction to

nonetheless stare it in the face and kind of still pursue the best version of who you are. So I'm happy to have Robin in my life. She's an amazing friend. And as a father of two little girls, I'm just so inspired by her shining example of positive female empowerment in this kind of, you know, Kardashian influence culture that we find ourselves in. This conversation picks up where episode 99 left off and we go deeper into what drives and inspires my friend. And my hope is that she inspires you to reframe and own the best story that you can tell about yourself. So let's tap in and reconnect with my friend, Robin Arzon. Today's my first rest day in over three months. Why are you taking a rest day? Because I need it. I need it.

I ran 22 yesterday, so thankfully Mother Nature replied. And yesterday was the worst day to do it. It was so slushy and yucky out. But I had footing. I was more concerned that I wouldn't have any footing that it would ice over. I didn't know today was going to be as gorgeous as it is. Today was awesome. Otherwise, I might have pushed it.

Right, right, right. But I was so, you know, and I was talking to these athletes, these competitive cyclists who take my class on Saturday mornings at Peloton. And they were like, dude, just go in and do it on a treadmill. But they're cyclists and they don't get it. And I was like, no, no, I can't do that on a treadmill, but they're cyclists and they don't get it. And I was like, no, no, I can't do that on a treadmill. I was like, guys, imagine you tell yourself you're going outside for a 50-mile ride or a 70-mile ride, and then you do three.

Mentally, there's just like I have to get in what I told myself I was going to get in. I had to do 20-plus for Tokyo in a few weeks, and thankfully Mother Nature complied. Where do you do your long rides in the city? I mean, long runs. Runs. Rides are coming.

Runs, normally, I like to do what I call a triple bypass. So it's three bridges, and then I'll tack on mileage in Brooklyn, in Queens, and somehow make that into 15 to 20 miles. Right. Interesting. Yeah, I'm always like trying to explore new. I love running in New York. It's so fun for me.

I mean, because I'm used to just running trails all the time. And running on the road in California is just boring. You know what I mean? It's not like running on the streets in New York City is a complete urban trail running adventure. Oh, I mean, it feeds you. You're dodging. It's like playing Frogger. It is.

You're just playing this video game, you know, like the whole time, which is fun and cool. But, like, I'd never – so this hotel that we're in is on 34th and 3rd. I never stay – this is not a neighborhood that I ever stay in. I usually never am on the east side at all. I've never gone running along the East River. So I was like, I'll check. No.

at all. I've never gone running along the East River. Never? No. I always do Westside or Central Park. That's what I did yesterday. I did a few loops. So I'm like, alright, well. So I'd never had that experience. So today I went and I ran all the way down around

Wall Street and all of that. As many times as I've gone running here, I'd never done that run. That's fun. It's always cool to do something new. I think for me, there's something about... The bridges are your thing now. The bridges are so my thing. And I feel like every time I lace up,

I'm kind of, I don't know, writing a story. I literally will cross an intersection and be just bombarded with a memory that I had on a run that I experienced years ago, you know? And I just have these, I almost wish I could have like an overlay of, you know, you know, you know, like the heat maps that they do, like the, the heat, what are these things called? It's like, um, like they fast forward, like.

Like a weather map kind of thing? Well, no. I've seen it in imagery. You're following a course, almost like an aerial view of Manhattan, and it'll be a whole bunch of different running routes, but they'll show the graphic image of all the running routes traveling at once. And I almost wish I had an overlay of all of my runs because I don't track everything. Like people always are on Map My Run or Nike Plus or whatever. I don't always do that. Sometimes I need to really truly unplug from the numbers.

So I'll just kind of roughly know a distance, but I don't have all that data. So kind of in my mind, I'm rewriting stories every time I lace up and it's more like the visual conversation I'm having with every step as opposed to necessarily the mileage. Yeah, there's something very vivid about that that's specific to New York City though too. And I lived here a long time ago,

but I'll be running and I'll see something that I haven't seen in many, many years and it will trigger a very, very powerful, strong, very specific memory. Yeah. And sometimes that's auditory for me as well. Like I was running, so I ran down along, you know, down the east side and down along Wall Street and started coming up along the Hudson. And as I was passing Chelsea Piers, I had a very specific memory

of running past there last spring. And I was listening to, I was listening to the Mark Maron podcast where he was interviewing Tom York from Radiohead. Like I knew exactly. And I was like, I knew exactly what they were talking about when I like was in that very specific space. Like it's so weird how like something specific can trigger something. So I totally agree. I was listening to your, um, to your book yesterday when I was doing my long run.

Oh, I read it after catalyst and then no bullshit. It got me through. I was at mile 19 and I think it was the chapter where you're talking about, um, oh, it's when you guys are doing the Epic Five. And you're missing a lug nut or some part of your bike. Or the bike's broke, yeah. And I'm like, Rich can do five.

I remember he said five days. I can eke out three more miles. But I had a moment where I was on 72nd and Central Park West, and I remembered the podcast that you and Mishka and John Joseph did so vividly. All of that came back to me in that moment on that corner. That's when I pressed play on that episode. Oh, cool. Because that's where you were when you listened to that. That's exactly where I was when I listened to it.

Yeah. There is something really magical about creating sort of your own deja vu. Right. Well, I think that you'd mentioned, you know, not always tracking your workouts and your runs, like, you know, this sort of, we're in this Strava culture, and how it's important to just let go of that every once in a while. And I think that brings up a bigger issue that I think we both kind of are dealing with right now, which is like, what is our relationship to technology? You know, both you and I are like, you know, you have this, you have this online following and you put out these inspirational Instagrams about,

you know, every day, which I look forward to and I love, and you need to keep doing. It makes me cringe hearing you say that because yes, it's true. But yeah, it feels weird. But like, you know, at what point do, you know, does it become necessary to unplug from that or kind of reframe what that relationship is so that you can actually be present for the experiences that you're having as opposed to always being obsessed with documenting them? And, you know, over, I don't know if you listened to the podcast that I did with this guy, Josh

Shipp, but we talked all about this. And he really inspired me to do what I called an eye detox, like over December. For how long? Well, for 30 days, I removed Twitter and Facebook and email from my phone. Oh, I didn't listen to the Sh ship interview, but I listened to you. You mentioned this when you interviewed it with, when you interviewed Dean. Right, right, right. And so, and it was difficult, you know, and look, during the kind of Christmas holiday

season, like there's not a lot going on anyway. Like it was less stressful than it would be maybe. Right. But it was an interesting experiment and it really helped kind of reframe, like it helps you see, like it's like putting a mirror up to your behavior. Like you're able to really see like what your kind of compulsive behavior patterns are. Like, oh, I'm constantly just impulsively without thinking grabbing to do this thing that maybe is taking me out of the moment that I should be in, you know? Yeah. of the moment that I should be in, you know?

Yeah. And so, you know, then coming out of that, I have changed my, like I don't, like the one thing I don't do that I used to do all the time is like, you know, roll out of bed and like immediately look at the front. Like I just, I will not do that. Like now I'm meditating.

I have a whole morning thing that I'm doing. Have you fallen off though? Because I fall off sometimes. Well, I'll fall off, but usually if I fall off now I'm meditating. I have a whole morning thing that I'm doing. Have you fallen off though? Because I fall off sometimes. Well, I'll fall off. But usually if I fall off now, it's only for like a day. And then I'm back on. You know, so because there's always an intervening thing. But I do have like a lot of momentum around my morning routine.

And I've really noticed that my life has gotten better. Like my stress level, my anxiety levels are lower. My productivity is higher. My ability to focus is better. Like the benefits are ridiculous. And believe me, like, I don't want to do it. Like, I want to wake up and I want to jet out the door and get about my day. I have to like really force myself to like, you know, you know, like changing any behavior, you know, where you're kind of like bending the steel and trying to do something that's not your habit. It's not easy,

you know, but that's for me personally, that's the only thing that, you know, that's, that's what, that's what you have to do if you want to grow. Right. So, all right. So we're, I haven't even asked you a question, but basically we're talking about our relationship to, yeah, it's our relationship to technology. So when you're out, like you have a thing like, oh, I have to document, like I'm, I'm doing these bridge runs. You're always with your friends or whatever. Like, you know, where is that dividing line for you between, you know, documenting and sort of tending to, you know, your flock of online, you know, acolytes versus just like, you know, like, yeah, like I'm just going to be in this moment and it's cool. And that's enough. I don't have to like feed that beast or that compulsion. I know.

The balance is really hard for me to strike. And I think, so I was watching the Susan Sontag documentary last night on HBO. And they quoted her or part of her writing. And this is in the 60s. And she wrote, today everything exists to end in a photograph. And I literally paused my Apple TV and I was like, oh, shit. Like, am I just living for these, like, fragments that don't exist anymore? And where's the experience?

I had this, like, I had, like, a mini existential crisis on my couch last night. Like, oh, my God. And social media has fueled my athletics. And it certainly is part of my business and my brand now. And I really enjoy interacting with folks all around the world. So it's not that I'm not, my relationship with it isn't so tortured that I would, you know, say that, that I haven't had benefits.

would, you know, say that, that I haven't had benefits, but when I'm experiencing this life that I do try to portray authentically, it's like, how authentic is it if I leave a yoga class and I immediately want to recreate a pose that I just did? It's just very, it's like, it's so illusory. Like that's not, what is that? You know, but at the end, I want to capture the moment and the genuine feeling that I then will often describe in a caption or whatever in a tweet. That is genuine, but it's like idea that at a subatomic level, just observing a particle impacts it, right? Yeah. So by saying I need to document this moment to share the moment that I'm experiencing then makes it no longer the moment. Yeah.

And then to recreate the moment for that purpose makes it inauthentic. Absolutely. So what are we doing? What are you doing? No. You know, I went to yoga this morning and a meditation class, and it was transformative. It was incredible. And I just chose not to say anything about that.

And there are runs. But then it didn't happen. I know. I know triathletes like that. But then it didn't happen. I know. I know triathletes like that. You know, if it's not on Strava, you know, if it didn't like or if your Garmin, if for some reason your Garmin had run out of batteries, it's like, wait, I didn't even do the workout. Like, no, actually you did.

I mean, there's something. Sharing fosters community and community breeds action. So to the extent that Instagram is getting people off their couches and motivating them to move, I think it's fantastic. For me personally, I do not document all my runs. I mean, honestly, if I documented every single workout, it would be – I'm already probably spanning people's news feeds. It would be boring too a little bit too much. It would be boring, too. Yeah. A lot of triathletes do that. Like, they're using it on Twitter or whatever.

They're just like, every workout, it's like, oh, come on, man. So I do, I mean, I am selective with what I post, but it's more, it's less about when I'm posting, and it's more about when I'm documenting. That's when I find it sort of disruptive to me personally, just living my life and trying to do these things that I talk about. I want to practice what I preach. So I'm talking about authenticity and mindfulness and all these buzzwords that are kind of almost losing meaning because we speak them so frequently. Right. because we speak them so frequently.

But that, I have to say, it's not easy for me to balance that. That is my Achilles in the moment. Yeah, well, it's a good thing to be, I mean, first of all, you have awareness about it. So that's the first thing. And then I think that the, you know, the solution is to find that, that a way so that you're just you're controlling it rather than it's controlling you and to know what those boundaries are, you know, and to like, not, you know, it's not always the right thing to

pull it out and photograph it, you know, like, just have the experience yourself. I do have technology diets. That's good. So every year at Burning Man, I go without anything, but that's only one week a year. So I try for at least... But that's because there's no service there. But I don't want it. There are camps with Wi-Fi and I put my phone on airplane mode. I crave that. Um, and then at least once a month I try to go 24 hours where I don't even open my inbox. Like I don't even open my email. And, um, it's amazing actually what one day will even do because I am so logged on and linked in. Um, you know, 24 hours can actually make a huge difference for my own mental acuity and, and all that. So I, uh, you know, 24 hours can actually make a huge difference for my own mental acuity and all that. So I, you know, from following you, from knowing you, and then just from following your pictures,

I'm like, you know, I've sort of see these spin classes that you do. And so I come into New York City. And, you know, I get in touch with you. I'm like, I got to do one of these classes, right? And you're like, I'm doing it at 6am and 8am. And it was like the day after I got here, I was like, well, there's no way I'm doing 6am because I'll be jet lagged. Yeah. But as it turned out, like I just had a terrible night of sleep. Like I could not sleep at all. I was up at like three o'clock in the morning. So I go, Oh, I guess I'm going to Robin's 6am. I loved when I got your message. I was like, hell yeah, this guy's going to come in early. So I go to this and I'm thinking like, oh, this is like SoulCycle or this is like one of these trendy New York City, like spin class places. And I, and I show up, it's called Peloton and it is

super nice, like boutique-y, you know, kind studio is gorgeous. Really nice. Yeah, and it's large. And they give you your own. I'm like, I don't have cleats. And don't worry. They have all that stuff, right? And you get your own bike that's already set up for you. And it's all very cool. And we're doing the class.

And you're doing your thing. And I'm like, you're just rocking it. I have so much fun out there. And I'm so used to riding outside. I don't do a lot of indoor cycling. So for me, it was actually a really difficult workout. Cause I don't, I don't do like high, a lot of high intensity interval kind of stuff. So it was great.

But then I noticed, like, I look up and I noticed there's like this crane arm above my head with this camera on it. And I'm like, what is going on? Like you're, it's like filming you. And I'm like, is this being like like what is happening it's live streamed so they live stream these classes so the peloton bike is manufactured with a screen on it that at home riders basically see our new york city studio so every single time there's a class on the schedule at on 23rd street that's a live streaming production with five different cameras with a real camera

crew working it. So there are people out all over the place that buy these special stationary bikes that have these big screens on them, and then they can dial you up and see you're like, it's a subscription kind of thing? So it's a monthly subscription. So you buy the bike at Home Fitness Equipment, just like any other, like if you would buy a treadmill. But the monthly subscription fee of, I think it's $39 now, basically gets you the Netflix of cycling.

Right. So your bike has a screen on it, and you can click on, oh, I want to take the 8 p.m. ride from Monday night. I want to take Robin's 90s hip-hop ride from last week, which was fucking epic. Like a DJ? No, literally, a DJ on stage. Like a nightclub, indoor spin club? It was. My friend DJ Mode was the DJ.

DJ Mode? He's epic. He DJs the Knicks and whatever. He's so great. And 90s hip-hop is like my genre, like my, like, ugh. So we're on the bike, and I almost, I swear, I had a transformative experience. I was like, Mode, I don't even know if I can teach this anymore. Because you know when you just hear a song you haven't heard in forever, and you're like,

this is just taking me to that place. Imagine that every 90 seconds for 45 minutes. Like he was just mixing so many jams that people in the studio were just like, oh my God, no way, this is my music. So that energy really from the studio, that energy of the 60 riders plus myself, if there's a DJ, that really translates on screen. And I can see from my console on stage riders at home. And they're all around the world. And it is really special.

And back to the social media piece, I communicate with them. special and back to the social media piece i communicate with them i really engage with people in florida in santa monica all over the place right so i knew like when the thing is and then you started like talking to the camera and i was like what's happening here like there's some kind of weird orwellian yeah but so so i'm so so i'm talking at the at the camera and then i'm also speaking to the writers in the studio of course but. But you're engaging the at-home, quote-unquote, audience. And then afterwards, you know, one of our regular writers, Guy Feldman, he might tweet at me like, oh, Robin, I got my best. I got a PR today. Because they're doing it live.

Because they're doing it live while I'm teaching. And then he'll tweet at me or Instagram at me, and then I'll message him back. And that translates also into a real-life relationship. He'll visit the studio, and he's joining me for this 100-mile bike race I'm doing. And I don't know him personally, but we've developed a friendship or a coaching relationship through technology. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. And I just thought, oh, there must be Pelotons all over the place.

But that's really the only studio. It's almost like a television studio more than it is anything else. So it's really just that's where everything gets broadcast. But there aren't other – it's not like SoulCycle where there's Pelotons all over the place. That's the only one. So Peloton isn't a studio business, but there are retail spaces all across the country. Interesting. So if you want to check out a Peloton bike and ride it and try it and speak to somebody who knows about the bike, there are retail spaces in a lot of malls around the country,

but not the only place you can catch us is live from New York City, baby. Well, so we're talking about like kind of getting out of our comfort zones and, you know, whether it's your relationship to technology or, you know whatever it's required to like grow and that's one thing that i think that you're doing right now like you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna do this hundred mile bike ride you're thinking about doing a triathlon like you're the runner i'm signed up for a try you're the spin girl like marathon running girl but this is new stuff for you right so how's it going it's hasn't even started i mean you should have done a swim lesson oh i would be grateful and terrified maybe we could do a uh

what's going on tomorrow morning what are you doing tomorrow morning maybe i could take you and and i'm a little stroke clinic i haven't teaching 8 photo shoot at 10, but I should be done at 11. Photo shoot. Okay. I got a podcast. We'll talk. We'll talk afterwards. Where do you go to swim here? So I'm going to be taking a class with the YMCA when I get back from Tokyo. It's probably going to be with like, I don't know.

I don't know. I had to, okay, so this is, I had to buy a swimsuit that was appropriate for a pool. Like I wearian cut like long bikinis like i don't when i tell you this is new territory for me like i am not kidding um like a speedo yeah like i but it has to look good so sweaty betty sent me this dope one piece i don't know if i'll actually sweaty bet's Sweaty Betty? This British sportswear company. And they have... There's something else called Betty Designs that has some pretty cool stuff, too, for triathlon. Oh, I'm not familiar... Oh,

really? Okay, I'll check that out. I'm definitely looking for fly triathlon gear. So, for getting in the pool and training, this suit is perfect. And Smashfest Queen, because that's Hillary. I've got to give her a shout-out. Smashfest Queen? Yes, they have cool triathlon... It'll be on the show notes, right? Right.

Because I'm not writing anything down right now. So basically the plan is to go to Tokyo in a few weeks, run that marathon, hopefully PR, and then I'm going into this swimming, triathlon, biking territory until fall marathon. Oh, I have one 50 have 150 mile running race but that's more for fun the real goal that's in april the real goal is is doing this 100 mile bike race in may grand fondo new york and then the new york city try and i don't have any i'll have to i'm

gonna be totally honest with you i'm probably gonna piss some people off the triathlon community community you know is like kind of hardcore and a little bit douchey at times. And I, in some regards, I can already hear like the ripples that that, whatever. Fuck it. But I feel that there is a. I'm not saying. Just stay silent. I don't really know the New York City triathlon.

I mean, I know a few triathletes that live here, but I don't know the community. I think there is an – okay, so I'll speak for novices. That with the gear and the tech and the, you know, focusing on, like, heart rate levels, there's just, like, a lot that seems really intimidating when you're in multi-sport yeah that definitely exists i mean you feel i remember the first time that i went into like a bike shop you know i was like 39 and 40 like to look at getting a bike yeah i was like it was really intimidating and you know it depends on the shop of course but sometimes you don't know what you're doing like they kind kind of like, there's an attitude, you know? I think it's the attitude more that I'm, that I'm, that I've perceived as a new person in this space as a new amateur athlete in this space.

And I think the judgment of the gear I find really offensive. It's like, if you don't have an X dollar amount bike and it's not carbon fiber and it's not this, like why are you even towing the line? You know? And I just think with running, it's very different. Of course there can be like a lot of artificially expensive stuff that you can buy.

But generally speaking, if you have running shoes, like you're good. Um, and in my experience, nobody's ever judged anybody based on that. So it's a little different because you need a bike. I mean, it's like, yeah, nobody's ever judged anybody based on that. So it's a little different because you need a bike. Yeah, it's very gear intensive.

And it's very intimidating when you're new, especially if you show up at a race, like even a local race, and you'll see people with like $10,000 bikes and super fancy deep rim wheels and all that kind of stuff. And they just look like they know what they're doing, and you're new. And it's like you can very easily feel marginalized by that experience. And the truth of the matter is it's not about the gear. It's not about the bike. And that's unfortunate that you're having that experience. It shouldn't be that way for anybody. It's a participatory thing, and everybody should feel welcome.

I hope that I feel that because it definitely – I think you will when you get into more of it. Yeah. I mean, I know when I was new to the ultra community, I showed up for my first 50 mile race with like a Poland Spring bottle in my hand and like completely... I mean, it was just absurd. I was so unprepared. And people were just mad cool about it, you know?

And I haven't sensed the same kind of open arm like oh you don't know what the hell you're doing but we'll you know like i walked into a you know bike store and i was just like hey like i ride a fixed gear but i don't know anything about this stuff like i don't even i was just kind of trying to price like what i what i need for may um and it looks like i'm going to be working with a cycling company to help me out, thank God but but you know the guy in the shop was kind of like intentionally talking

over my head, you know, and it was like well you need this and this and I was like I don't even know what those words mean well that's about it and you're not fucking impressing me right now that's the guy, that's not the community but that's unfortunate that you had that experience yeah, but it's just the beginning. Yeah, totally. But that's unfortunate that you have that experience. Yeah, but it's just the beginning.

And in six months, I'll probably be just as obnoxious with my talk of tech. So ask me in six months, and I'll be like, oh, Rich, you didn't know about this new frigging thing for your bike? I can't wait to see what you're going to wear on the bike. That is a very important question. What helmet is Robin going to decide is going to be the helmet for her? I mean, it's all going to have to be practical enough, but if it doesn't have swag, I'm not interested. Keep it moving.

So this will be interesting. Yeah, we'll see. What's the date on the New York City triathlon? July, oh gosh, I don't even know. But it's middle of summer. I think it's middle of the summer, like July 20th or something. You've got time. Well, we've got to sort your swim out, though. I'll. I don't even know. I think it's middle of the summer, like July 20th or something. Yeah. Well, we got to sort your swim out though. I'll be over a couple times.

Goodness. Yeah. I mean, I, so I grew up on a, my dad built a sailboat when I was younger, took him seven years, super badass, like a 30 foot sailboat. So I know how to swim. I've spent plenty of time on the water, but strokes and things when there's a lot of people and open water and a lot of it is scary. A lot of it is maintaining your composure and remaining calm when you're in the chaos of like an open water swim, especially at the beginning and people are climbing all over each other. It's kind of like dicey because it's less about like how fit you are and more about like your ability to like stay calm. Stay calm.

Okay. When you hear those stories of people like drowning, it's because there's a lot of panic, I think. And I think, I'm guessing at something like the New York City trial, there are going to be a fair number of people who are new, but also who are new. You know, this isn't like an Ironman where people are pro, you know, have plenty of experience in the water.

There'll be all kinds. There'll be all kinds. You know, there'll be tons of new people and there'll be fast pro, you know, have plenty of experience in the water. There'll be all kinds. You know, there'll be tons of new people and there'll be fast people. But, you know. I want to be in the back. I've never wanted to be in the back. But I want to be in the back. That can be arranged.

Was it the one year where, like, the swim was super fast because people just got in and swam with the current? I have friends who've done it before. And that's what they said, that in the right year you can catch a current that makes the swim part not as daunting. But I'm also not banking on that. I want to train as much as I can and get comfortable. We'll get you sorted out. All right, so how's it going for Tokyo? Oh, I'm excited.

So I did my last 22. Why Tokyo? I've never been to Asia. I got in, and I was like, all right, well, it's one of the big five, one of the majors. Let me just do it. Right. And I really planned a all right, well, it's one of the big five, one of the majors. Let me just do it. Right. And I really planned a whole trip around it. So I'll be in Tokyo for like a week and then I'm planning the rest.

I'll be there. I'll be in Asia for three weeks total. So I'm planning the last two weeks and just figuring out like where I want to land. I'm definitely leaving from Hong Kong, visiting a friend out there. So we'll see. And when you're in the midst of like racing and doing a marathon, like how do you plan around, you know, the diabetes and the insulin and like how do you prepare for that? That, that's been trial and error.

I haven't, I wear an Omnipod and insulin pump. So that administers my insulin without me having to do anything. So just automatically. It automatically gives me a drop of insulin every seven minutes. And I, I put the rate on a monitor so I can sort of, I play with my ratios during training. So right. Cause if you're walking around, that's different than if you're running a marathon. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So you have to know what that is. So yeah, for, so for my,, yeah, for when I'm running a marathon, it's usually half of my normal ratio or even less, just depending on kind of how my body is doing that week.

And I have a glucose monitoring device that I will run with, and that monitors my glucose levels. So I'll pull that out. Of course, I can always feel when my blood sugar's dropping, but if for some reason I don't, it'll buzz and I'll feel it, and then I'll be like, oh, okay, I need more Gatorade, more goo, whatever. I had a really, really bad crash in San Diego last June, but thankfully New York I was cool, and Tokyo will be my second marathon, or my first marathon of 2015.

But your second marathon since your diagnosis. No, my fifth since my diagnosis. Oh, okay. I did four marathons last year. Oh, my God. Yeah. And now you're doing them with your mom, right? So my mom's coming out there.

She runs. She has a Peloton bike. She is, she runs like six miles a day. Like the woman is amazing. And she has multiple sclerosis. So she didn't own a pair of running shoes until she was well into her 50s. Well, well into her 50s. And she's an example of strength for me for sure.

But I was diagnosed a year ago february so our trip last year we were in india around this time and that's and i was diagnosed right when i got back and i find it really exciting that i'm going to be traveling with her to tokyo a year after my diagnosis really largely intact, if not in better shape than I ever have been in my life, which is crazy to think about. I'm definitely in my best running shape. And I'm really proud of that. Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, how has, have you really kind of interfaced with the type one community? Or how does that work? That's been, yeah. so i've done some press and

of course individuals have reached out to me and i'll interact on a one-on-one basis to the extent that i can i think i'm very new to the community so i'm hesitant to prescribe i mean even if i were not new to the community i'd be hesitant to prescribe any any kind of prescriptive advice as not being a medical professional at all. But as an athlete, I do know what has worked for me. And I think the body awareness I had as an athlete before my type 1 diagnosis definitely informs how I treat my body now. What do you mean by that? So I think it's, you know, just understanding how my mind and body are speaking together, what I'm putting into it, how different foods affect how I feel. I mean, it's just like, I have an aware, like, like weird things like pineapple gives

me like a weird allergic reaction and like makes me sluggish. Like, and that's just something I never would have been aware of had I not, I think, broken down sort of my body as a machine and as something that needs to move and act. So the diagnosis has really made you focus on really paying attention at a higher level. It's a much higher level. I mean, I think having diabetes is like being on a tightrope. And before any time I'm going to do anything, eat anything, I'm like, okay, how do I think my body's going to react? Before that 6 a.m. class, you know, I wake up.

If I have a banana 15 minutes before class, it's different than if I have a banana 30 minutes before class or if I have a banana 90 minutes before class. And I literally just have to guess, okay, what's going to get me through the next 45 minutes so I don't crash but I don't go so high where I'm inefficient. Because if my blood sugar goes too high, I just don't perform and my head's fuzzy and it's not good for your body. But before I go low, that's even worse for when I'm teaching and when I'm running. But yeah, so I mean, the answer to your question is absolutely. It's these little micro decisions that are 24 hours a day. And sometimes I'm off. I was riding to the studio the other day and um sometimes i'm off you know i was riding to the studio the other day and i took too much insulin i i take insulin based on carb count and that's not something i've ever had to count before right like oh avocado this size of avocado probably has 17 grams of carbs versus 25 i mean it's just

it is just i when i first was diagnosed i was like oh man how specific do i need to be with this this is so scary. And now I realize it's just you do your best and you guess. And sometimes I'm just like, whatever. But I would imagine you're probably being – you're a lot more intuitive about it now. Like you kind of know what's going to work and what you need and feeling your way through it. Especially when it comes to exercise. So interestingly, I took a boxing class the other day.

And because of the cortisol naturally in that type of workout my blood sugar actually started to rise and that's not something that's really happened in a workout before and I was like oh wow it's just kind of like now I just look at it like a science experiment and I'm like oh what else can I try to get my body to do and see how it reacts

so you know hence the 100 mile records 100 mile record. Yeah, well, it's finding the gift. Other than dirt. It's finding the gift in what, you know, could ordinarily just be perceived as like, you know, a negative thing or a disability or something like that.

And you're like, the acuity with which you're now paying attention to your body is pushing you to do things that maybe you wouldn't be doing or wouldn't have done had you not been diagnosed. Without question. I think that's how I approach, I mean, I think that's how I try to approach a lot of things because I do genuinely believe that we need to trust our struggle. And in the moment, you might be like shaking a fist and cursing and I am, I curse like a chugger so i'm most definitely

probably cursing but um that you know honestly the diabetes diagnosis was it took the wind out of me for about 35 seconds and then i looked at the endocrinologist and i was like with not a hint. I was just, I literally looked her in the eyes. I was like, how can I run a hundred mile race? And she was like, I'd never met her before. This was a totally emergency appointment, you know? And she's pulling out like, she's starting to pull out the USDA, like, this is how many ounces are in a glass of milk bullshit.

And I was like, homegirl, this is not the conversation we're having right now. And, like, thankfully, you know, she's amazing and I have a great team. But in those few days that it was just like, ah, get her insulin, what's going on? And I didn't even know really what type 1 diabetes was. In my mind, I was just like, how do I continue being an endurance athlete? And, you know, I'm just in the beginning of my journey. So I'm like, I'm not stopping now. Well, I think even the most positive people would at least need a couple days.

You know what I mean? Like 30 seconds. I was like. What do you attribute? Are you just wired that way to be finding the positive in everything? Or have you trained yourself to be in that headspace? I think it's probably a combination of both. My mother is a really positive person.

So even despite her MS diagnosis and other things that have happened in her life, you know, Cuban refugee, you know, just life, she has always treated, she's met life's adventures with class and humor. And now I've infused, I think, a little bit of swagger and expletives into the mix. And then I'm just like, fuck it. Then just keep moving. But in all seriousness, I do think it's in part my mother's example. And also, it is absolutely a choice.

We choose how we react to things um i don't think i don't think life happens to us like we happen to life and if we're constantly always reacting to how things are are what's to what's thrown at us instead of proactively being like i I am choosing this now. I am choosing this path. So when the endo was like, okay, it's type 1, I was like, oh, shit, that sucks. I thought it was pancreatic cancer. Better than that. How do I run a 100-mile race?

What's the technology available? So within two weeks, I was on a pod. And then I think within three and a half weeks I was running the New York city half marathon. Right. So as planned, you know, that,

that was, that was always the plan. And it was during the same time that I was, New York Roveners had chosen me as a social media reporter and I had no idea what, and you know, as part of that engagement, I was going to run five or six races for New York Roveners,

including the New York city marathon. So I'm looking at my 2014 race schedule. Like, I was going to run five or six races for New York Roadrunners, including the New York City Marathon. So I'm looking at my 2014 race schedule like, I don't even know how the hell I can do this. But I was just like, I'm going to try. Right. One day just show up for the day as it comes. Say again? Move forward. Like just every day wake up and like, what's happening today?

Just keep, you know, that willpower muscle, it can get fatigued, but it gets stronger keep you know that willpower muscle it can get fatigued but it gets stronger you know and i i look at things like i have a superhero toolkit and i didn't think that an insulin pump was going to be part of that you know what like that's not part of your whatever like wonder twin powers activate like sort of yeah. Like Shira didn't have insulin. Pack of, yeah. But Robin NYC does. So, and Beyonce wasn't built in a day. So I just have to take it step by step.

Yeah, but like the comfort level with which you just sort of walk with that and you're like, yeah, man, here it is. It's right here. Check it out. And let's rock it. You know, like that attitude is really powerful. And I think that's what people are responding to. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I got this.

You know, do you think I like having this big thing on my arm sticking out? Like, especially as a girl, like, you know, probably not, you know what I mean? But you're like, you're not trying to hide it. You're like, yeah, it's right here. It's awesome. When I had the training for the pod,

and it's funny how things are so daunting in the moment. Like I remember the first time I had to give myself an injection or the first time I had to fill my pod or it was just so frustrating because I didn't know how to do it. And I was like, I just want to be efficient and good. And it's a process. Success is so circuitous and iterative as it was with my diabetes management. But I remember when I was going through the training of how to put on the pod and wear, and she was like, oh, well, you know, you need a place that has some fat.

And so really it's just like my hip area. And she's like, oh, in the back of your arms will work. And I was like, I can't put that on the back of my arm. Like that's visible. And I was just like mildly offended. And then not even a week later, I was like, oh, slap this thing on here, whatever. Yeah, and for the listener who might not be familiar

or maybe didn't listen to the first time we talked about this, it looks like you have kind of, I don't know what, like a pack of gum stuck in your arm or something. It looks like an old school beeper. Yeah, like a beeper on a Band-Aid. It's like the size of a beep looks like an old school beeper yeah like a beeper it's like the size of a beeper on a bandaid with like a one with a one inch needle that goes

into my skin and I wear it and I change it every few days but the coolest thing is you know it's funny sometimes athletes will stop me and they're like dude like what is that they think it's like some next level heart rate monitor or like something really. I'm like, it's just insulin, bro.

But what else could you put in there? But yeah, but diabetics will stop me. And I love that. And a woman who rides with me, she was like, wow, my husband has type 1 diabetes and he hasn't revisited getting a pod for years. And now that I see how small yours is, like, I'm going to encourage him to talk to his doctors about it. Because, I mean, what's the reddest? Because it's a pain in the butt? This is the smallest with no tubing.

So it's, I found one with no tubing because I knew that would work best for me. And, I mean, the advancementsments in the technology technologies really have come a long way even in the last five years. So, you know, type ones or diabetics in general who, who need this type of insulin management, I really recommend looking into it. Yeah. Cool. So your story is starting to kind of get out there, you know what I mean?

Like when we talked, that was last summer. It's been a journey. Yeah. Like when we talked, that was last summer. It's been a journey. Yeah, and you just had like a week and a half ago this article about you on the Huffington Post that kind of like blew your shit up a little bit. Like who's that guy? Like what happened? Oh, my God.

I put my phone on airplane mode to clean my apartment. And then I turned it back on. phone on airplane mode to clean my apartment. And then I turned it back on and I had like 47 texts and I think at that point, like 340 new emails. And I was like, what just happened? And then I'm reading, I'm like, oh, it's the Huffington Post article. And that 36 hour period after the Huffington Post article came out was really intense. I love this experience I'm having sharing my story and sort of thinking about what next steps are for me. But I have to say I wasn't really – you know, I'm getting phone calls from like random people who have my number. It was just like a weird moment where I felt very public in a way that like I guess I've been insulated in kind of an Instagram Peloton bubble. Yeah, there's a difference between like being kind of this sort of like, you know, like Instagram personality versus like a main, somebody that people, anybody walking down the street, you know, that's a whole qualitatively different kind of thing. And I think that, listen, you know, there's tons of articles that come out

in the Huffington Post every day. They get like one Facebook, like, like people just because it's in the Huffington Post doesn't mean that really that many people are reading it, especially now compared to when it first started. Um, so there's something about your story that's resonating with people that is getting traction that people are responding to. So I think that's great. And I think with that comes some reflection about what that means for you, what your purpose is, how you want to kind of take that and figure out how you're going to, you know, what you're going to do with that energy. You know what I mean? Like there's a certain amount of energy coming at you or around you. And so, all right, what's the, you know, what's the call? That's the responsible thing to do with that. Like, is it to write a book? Is it to, like,

how can you take that and be of greater service than you already are? and be of greater service than you already are? Well, I, so the book thing has always kind of been on like a long to-do list of things that I would love to accomplish in my life. And in December, I challenged fellow podcast guest Mishka Shubali to run three miles every day for 31 days. And then he did it. You're like Instagramming each other together like the universe was like gonna explode i was like oh like rrp alum wonder twin powers activate

like to my favorite instagram or instagram podcast guests like hanging out in new york like i was so psyched yeah so um so he did that and then Like run every day for like three and 30, right? Three for 31. Three for 31. Was the hashtag. Run at least three miles every day in January. For December. Oh, December, right.

Yeah, so we both finished that December 31st. And then he challenged me to write every day for 31 minutes of January. That's actually harder. Which I have been doing and it is so hard. But I'm, you know, I'm happy. I'm happy for the challenge. And so that preceded this whole Huffington Post thing, which then triggered book agents and things. And then I was like, wow, maybe I really am writing a book. And I guess in the past... Yeah, that's a weird confluence of things that happened at once. It was a perfect storm.

But now I sit at my computer. Before, with the challenge, the writing every day for 30 minutes, it was still a challenge because I was like, all right, you have to do this for 30 minutes and bring it into your schedule. But now when I sit down, I'm like, you're so full of shit. You have to do this for 30 minutes and bring it into your schedule. But now when I sit down, I'm like, you're so full of shit. You have nothing to say. I just sit at my computer and I'm like, what? Yeah, but listen, if you're not entertaining that thought, then you're not doing it right. Because if you sit down and you're like, oh yeah, I'm rocking it. And like,

no, no, no. Oh gosh. Like every day I sit at my laptop and I'm like, you know, and sometimes I'll flesh out a story and I'm like, all right, that wasn't bad. And then I'll go to reread it. I'm like, that was terrible. That's the process. Yeah, yeah. You have to let yourself be terrible. You have to give yourself that permission.

And that, you know, that's a powerful thing. But like you can't get to the good part without like letting yourself go through that first. And I actually love the process. I miss it. And I think that's why this whole idea of writing a book is really thrilling to me because it's nourishing, you know, a skillset that I haven't really utilized at length in a long time since I was a lawyer, churning out briefs, of course, very different type of writing. But I like tapping into that part of my brain.

You are writing. That's how I learned how to write. It's a very different kind of writing, but you're writing every day. You're flexing that muscle. And then when you stop doing that, you realize that muscle has become flaccid. Absolutely. That needs to get worked again. And it's happening.

It's happening. So slowly but surely, I'll eke out a chapter or something. Yeah, that's happening. You know? It's happening. So slowly but surely, I'll eke out a chapter or something. Yeah, that's good. What do you think the book could, like, how are you conceptualizing it now? Do you even know? Well, I'm toying with the idea of, you know, rooted in memoir, but trying to have takeaways that actually mean something and how to unlock a life of passion through movement, which is what has happened for me. And I do get asked a lot like, oh, I'm in this career

position. How do I change into something I love more? Or I'm a beginning runner. Like, how do I get into, you know, ultras or, you know, just kind of, and I think the kernel of the question is always like, how do I unlock this part of myself that I'm kind of looking for? How do you unlock and unleash your best self? So, yeah, exactly. This is the perfect place to do that. But I think through, for me, for me, it's been through movement. So I don't think that everybody's going to leave their law firm life and go become some hybrid social media personality fitness person.

But I do think that there is something about pushing and pulling your own body weight that's really powerful. Yeah. Well, a couple observations about that. I mean, the first thing is this idea of, inspiration through movement, I feel is like a new thing. Like I feel like, like maybe it's a, it's a, it's a Instagram kind of catalyzed inspired kind of thing where suddenly there are these athletes out there that aren't necessarily professional athletes. They don't even necessarily compete, but they're doing cool stuff with their body. And they're trying to inspire people to move themselves more.

And that doesn't mean they're not. They're not instructors. They're not like Travis Brewer, right? Like, you know, Ninja Warrior, Calisthenics dude who, you know, through Instagram or what, you know, his various channels, you know, post these little short videos. Yeah. Doing amazing things with his body. And his whole thing is like, I want to inspire people through movement. And that's like kind of this, that's a new thing, I think, isn't it?

Like that breed of athlete who isn't really, isn't like really. It's a lifestyle athlete. Yeah, it's lifestyle. It's not defined by the sort of limiting parameters of Olympic sport or professional sport. And I think, I mean, this is going back to the social media piece, it makes it, that made it possible. And it's populist. Yeah, it is. And I love that.

And it's democratic, I think. I think that, you know, there are, sure, there, I don't, I don't think that race, you know, we should take clocks away from races. And I definitely compete with myself. And I always want to be faster and more powerful. But that said, that's not everybody's goal. So, for example, in the Peloton class, I teach a metrics ride, which has numbers. But I am aware of the fact that some people might look at those numbers and feel that that's like a value judgment.

If I say X, you should be at X resistance and they're not. And I try to remind folks, use that to fuel you. So similarly, using the Instagram posts or the YouTube clips that people watch, never to use that as a mirror where they're taking their own self-worth and value from it, but use it to fuel whatever you are trying to create. I mean, we're creating ourselves every day, right? So I think hopefully

the book would be interesting stories of some crazy-ass shit that's happened to me with some real takeaway of how a person might be able to do that in their own way. Right. And I think it's all about your voice.

You know what I mean? It's like, how do you write, I mean, come on, like, how do you write a how-to book, like a prescriptive book, and bring something to that equation that hasn't already been said or done. Absolutely. I'm in the position now where I'm contemplating that, the next book, and what can I bring to that conversation? And it's pretty tricky when you talk about sitting down and allowing yourself to be terrible, writing something and going, would you really read that in a book? Are you kidding

me? I know. How do you bring something that is really of service and helpful to people, but in a book? Like, are you kidding me? Like, how do you bring something that is, that is really of service and helpful to people, but in a way that maybe they haven't heard it that way before? Or, you know, is there a, is there a new idea or a new take that you can bring that has value as opposed to just being like, well, I'm writing it to do it because I have the opportunity to do it. And look, there's a lot of people out there that write books like that. It's like, there's not enough attention into the book. It's just, you know, they have a certain level of notoriety or a platform that allows them to write a book. And so they put it out and you look at the book and you're like, yeah, I don't know if this book should have ever been written.

You know what I mean? That would break my heart. Yeah. No, I, and I totally get it. You know, hey, if I write a book and it ends up on the dollar bin at the Strand, I'll take that as a success. Because I have a lot of respect for the Strand bookstore. But that. To even have a book in that building at all.

Are you kidding? It's so iconic. I mean, but that said, I am really trying to think about questions that I've been asked over the years that have given me pause like, yeah, how do I answer that for you? So really this whole process that is very, very nascent, to say the least, of writing this book is answering the questions of people being like, well, how do I do that? And I'm like, shit, that's a really good question. Let me try to answer that for you. So that's, and from, you know, from my point of view, I can only speak from my point of view. I'm not a, I'm, you know, I have a JD, but I'm not a professional, you know, anything else. And it goes back to this thing that like, is kind of my obsession, which is that gap that exists

between inspiration on the one hand and action, particularly sustainable action. So as you know, it's, you know, you can come up with this sort of pithy, like cool kind of like New York, like quote that you can throw on social media. That is, and everybody will be like, that's so inspirational, but like, but then what, but like, is that really changing anyone's behavior? Like, is that prescriptive enough to actually like sort of counsel somebody responsibly? Like, okay, here's how you actually make the change that you're seeking. Yeah.

I mean, it's the difference between saying, writing something inspiring about getting fit and then actually signing up for a 10K and being like, these are the steps. Yeah, like a tagline for a brand, like just do it or like something like that. You know, it's like, is that really – like, okay, are you inspired? Maybe you're inspired by that, you know, but like what are you doing with that? Like really. And I think what happens with a lot of people is it ends with the inspiration. They're like, that's so inspiring.

And then they don't do anything. So then it's almost like – but they feel like they did something. You know what I mean? That is such – oh, God, that's so true. I accomplished something because I was momentarily inspired, but they actually never don't put it into action. Yeah. You know?

And then that's almost robbing them of it. Yeah, because it's giving them the feeling of fulfillment without actually earning it. There you go. That's exactly what I'm talking about. I believe in earns, not given. earned, not given. And I think that I really do believe that we create and earn the life that we set our sights on. I think where you look magnifies. And I think we got to say, I think setting your sights on something inspirational is absolutely important. And you should credit yourself for that because there's so much noise and there's so much negativity.

So great. But then it's like, how do you take the leap to peel the next layer of the onion and then be like, okay, I found that really inspiring. So now I'm going to do one action today that gets me a little bit closer to how I want to feel in my job or in my body or in my relationship. And I think tiny victories should be celebrated, but not before you actually take a step to earn it. Right, right, right. Yeah, I think that's wise advice. I mean, what are some of the things that people come to you and want to know answers to. I get the career shift questions a lot. Like, how did you do that? How did you know where?

That's a big one. How did you know what your passion is? And it is a big one. For me, it took about two years to actually have the courage to leave my law firm. People who didn't know me at the time kind of see the 32nd, you know, see the Huffington Post article, which is a long life compressed into, you know, however many, a thousand words. So it took two years and I knew I was so unhappy,

but I didn't, you know what it was, honestly? It was the biggest seed that was planted during that time was how I felt during the day and how I felt running at night. And all I knew is that I wanted to feel more of the time how I felt running at night. And then it was a matter of looking at my... Like it's a very vague idea of just like an emotional feeling that you wanted to express more in your life. But nothing more tangible than that at that time. At that time. But then intuitively I took it to the next step, which is part of the prescriptive advice that I would give someone is think about how you want to feel. No limits.

Dream big. All the grandiose Pinterest quotes and tweets and shit. Like, make a vision board, all that stuff. And then take real stock of your skill set. Like, what are things that you are good at? And what are things that you might need to acquire in order to get to this place that informs how you're going to feel every day? And for me, that was definitely the written word. It was sort of the visual conversation I was having with folks on my blog.

And then different social media platforms picked up, and that created a perfect storm of an ability to sort of leave law initially as a journalist and then incrementally how I am now. Make that transition. I mean, I think that, yeah, in my own case, like, yeah, you read the article and it makes it a very, you know, it's a neatly packaged narrative that makes it all look like very tidy and it happened very quickly. Yeah.

You know, like, I think it took me like eight years to get out of it. It took me a long time. And it started with just, this is not for me. started with just, this is not for me. I had no idea what the me needed or what I should do. I had to do a lot of internal work to get to the place before I actually even understood what it is that I wanted to express in my life. So you can't, and you can't shortcut yourself of that part of the journey. And I think people want to and they're like, yeah, they don't like their job. And, you know, they want something that looks sort of maybe from an image or whatever looks like more fun. But they don't really they don't have the relationship with themselves yet to understand like, what it is that they're really here to express. And I think you need it's like the written word, right? Like, the morning routine, the meditation, the sort of, like, I don't care if you're like in recovery and going to 12 step meetings or you're going to a shrink or you're doing morning pages or you're going running in the morning, like whatever your version of that

is, like there's a, there's, you cannot shortcut the soul searching aspect of it. And it also can't be expedited. Like it takes what it takes, as long as it takes to figure that out. I mean, it's where process meets consistency. And I think that's where real progress is going to be made. And I do get questions that seem kind of wanting that nugget that's a shortcut, especially for people interested in the fitness world or wellness in the vein that I've been doing it. And I'm sure you get these questions all the time. And I'm just kind of like, well, I don't really,

especially if the question is vague and abstract, I don't always know how to answer it because it's not specific like, how should I build my social media presence for x part of my business you know it's like how did you do that and i'm like i worked my fucking ass off a but um but it's it's really like oh there it's such a it's so all of it is part of this larger story i think that we're telling to the world which me definitely started with knowing how i didn't want to feel and knowing more how i

did want to feel um and i failed so many times along the way like when i left law and i was pursuing journalism nobody i mean it was like i was lucky if I would get $100 for a $500,000 word piece that I struggled to get just on, like, the blog of the blog's blog's link. So nobody knew who I was. Nobody cared. And then I started going more into the social media realm, which helped a lot. But then I hit some blocks that I realized I didn't want as part of my overall message and overall brand. And I think people have to feel comfortable failing bigger. And I

totally understand the realities of like, well, what do you mean? I'm not going to quit my job. I've got kids. I've got, you know, that, that's so unrealistic. So I don't think it's,

I mean, I think the Jerry Maguire movie is such a fantasy and largely such BS because rarely are people going to do that, you know, flip over the desk and just be like, screw this. And I actually didn't leave law that disgruntled. I really left just in search of something better.

But I really, I miss, I miss the lawyers I worked with. They were fantastic. And I think the consistency and the daily sort of presence that you're speaking to is much more realistic for most folks. And I say, like, can you do one thing every day that's going to get you a little closer to how you want to feel? And if sometimes the goal isn't, sometimes the goal isn't necessarily obvious yet, but it's like if you plant a million seeds, like something's going to sprout.

And if you're doing it with that intention of magnifying the feeling of feeling, you know, whatever, compassionate, successful, like wanted, loved, whatever it is, I really, really do think that hard work and the universe conspire together. Yeah. There has to be a level of willingness to try lots of different things. And, you know, those little saplings or seeds that you plant, you know, most of them are going to miscarry. And that's the one that flourishes or starts to grow. And you kind of go over there and you're like, oh, I didn't think that one was the one that it was going to be. But let's see what that's about. And, you know, looking back on kind of my evolution or trajectory, like, there are very

few dramatic moments, right? It's not like there was this, yeah, like you talk about the Jerry McGuire flipping over, like, no, there was nothing about it that was like that. It's like like there was this, yeah, like you talk about the Jerry Maguire flipping over. No, there was nothing about it that was like that. And it's so gradual and so slow that you don't really even think that you've changed or you're any different or anything. It's all that dramatically different than it was a month before. It's only when you're way down the line and you look back and you're like, oh, wow. And then somebody at the Huffington Post condenses it down and it makes it sound more insane than it actually was going through it

because it was the hard work. And I think consistency is the key. It's like showing up consistently every day and doing the thing that's in front of you to do, the one thing or whatever it is. Maybe it's only a half an hour of your day And it's not about just up and quitting your job. But if there's something that's inside of you, that's yearning to be more expressed, finding a way to do that within the construct of your already busy life without it derailing

everything in your life and, and being willing to kind of follow that thread a little bit and see where it's going to lead you. I mean, sometimes it's sending, taking. I set a calendar appointment when I was a lawyer, 10 minutes, every Wednesday morning. And this is, I mean, mind you, I was working 80 hours a week. So it was really like I didn't have much time to sort of entertain all these thoughts of, you know, running around the world. I had a calendar appointment every Wednesday morning for 10 minutes and I would just send emails to people who I thought were doing like cool stuff. And I was just like, can I get you on the phone for five minutes next week just to talk

about more of what you do? Because I had no idea what I even really wanted to do in the fitness world or in running or in social media. I just knew that there were people out there doing things that seemed more impassioned. And then you called them up and you said, how did you do that? Yeah, no. But then I would just ask more about their day. I would just be like, what do you do every day? That was helpful when they recounted that?

Well, it was really, really helpful because I initially thought, oh, I want a magazine job. I want to be an editor at a famous fitness magazine. And then I would dial down more into what is it that you actually do as opposed to what I think you do or what Facebook says you do. Right, like the sort of movie version of what the job is like versus the reality. Yeah. Am I answering like Devil Wears Prada? Like what's going on here? Is it going to be that or is it like, you know, look, your law firm experience is nothing like any like lawyer on film that you've ever seen, right? I can assure you of that. Yeah. You know, so I just kind of like had these buckets of like journalism and fitness. And I ended up kind of mashing together my own career out of these things. But I was, I was, and I do encourage people to try to do that and create their own sort of create their own value and then create their own terms, which is kind of where I am now.

their own terms, which is kind of where I am now. But when I first left, I was like, okay, well, I either have to be a journalist or be a trainer or be a, like, because these are the boxes that people have set up for us. So I do think out of the box, but that's where I started. I started just- Create your own box. Yeah. That only you can check. Hell yeah.

And then that box is like an amalgam of all these other boxes, you know? It's like, I am so many things. We are so many things. I am a walking contradiction. I've been aware of that for a really long time. Like, I have- You're doing all of these things that adds up to this very unique one that only you could fulfill, right?

So it's not any one thing that you're doing. But I think it is interesting that part of your arc is in leaving law, it was about telling other people's stories, like whether as a journalist or whether it was going to be in a magazine or whatever. And now it's all about like owning your story and telling your story. But it took me a long time to realize that that was something I wanted to tell. And it was in getting a job as a social media producer for Nike women that I realized I'm working for one of the best brands in the world that I admire so much. And even in this position, I was working on the agency side, not for the brand directly, but they were my client. And even in this position, I was like, I don't want to do this.

Holy shit. I don't want to do this. I would. And so that's, that's when I, that's when I had another sort of departure, like eight months after leaving my law firm. And that was even, that was honestly scarier because that was leaving something. Because you're here, you are doing that thing that you left the law that you thought was going to be the thing that was going to make you happy.

And then to realize like, oh, man, I'm not happy doing it. But not, do you know why you weren't happy? Because I was writing behind. You were like still a proxy for somebody else. Yeah. It was still writing. It seemed inauthentic because it was my voice, quote unquote, but behind the lens of a brand. And I realized in that moment of time, in those months that I was doing that job, that it was very important to me to tell my story.

And story as a lived experience was something that I realized much younger and I was always fascinated with. I remember being at NYU at the Gallatin School where you make up your own major. And it was such a classic liberal arts experience. I knew I was going to law school, so I was like, I'm just going to read great books. Like everything like was in air quotes and like so lofty, oh God. But I loved what I was studying at the time. And it was social media and politics. And I just loved kind of seeing how people, kind of like Marshall McLuhan type of lens, like how is media informing how we take the message, right? And I remember preparing for my final colloquium as a senior. This is actually, I mean, it's not an accident that I was held hostage August before my senior year, and then I had my colloquium a few months later,

and it was during this time. I think it's during times of trauma that maybe we understand story and our roles as actors in our lives um and I'm simultaneously sort of looking at like the oral bards who who were going around telling you know the odyssey and then like our idea of linear linear narrative you know, after the written word came to be. And I really was wrestling with all these crazy ideas of like, how do we tell stories? But then it wasn't until, what, 10, 12 years later that I was like, how are my actions writing my story right now, like today, in this moment? And that was a weird, That awareness was transformative, was probably the

most powerful transformative thought I've had as an adult, because that then informed how I think and act every single day. You have to be in that place where you think that your story has value, and that requires a certain level of self-esteem and maybe, you know, a little bit of ego, I think, in order to be able, because, you know, if you're like, well, I don't, who cares about my story? You know what I mean? Like, I think most people kind of walk around like that. So you have to have that certain, like, sense of self that's strong in order to have that realization it couldn't be further from the truth though because i feel we we can learn something from everyone and everybody has something to say and perhaps it's not you know not everyone's going to speak

to you know being a triathlete not everyone's going to speak to some kind of vein that you know about. But I feel like we all have the capacity to do epic shit. And that is not going to happen until you start owning who it is you are. Passion is not going to be unlocked until you start really dialing in, as you say, into the core of what you're about.

It was so cool. Who was the younger guy that you interviewed the other day? I was just listening to that podcast. The millennial writer. Jake Ducey. He was awesome. And I loved, he's so wise. But it was really cool to hear his take on it because I absolutely think that he's right on the money.

That the biggest service that we can give to this world is doing the thing that we uniquely are capable of doing. Like, I always say you're one of one. Like, you're one of one. This is it. There's no dress rehearsal. I always say you're one of one. You're one of one. This is it.

There's no dress rehearsal. Clean together all the cliches you've ever heard about the fact that we only live one life, and I believe it, and I live it every day. And I think everybody should, too. I could not agree with you more. Yes. Awesome. It's so hard, though. It's so hard. It's taken me like, I'm 48.

I'm just starting to figure this out. And it's still a process that I wrestle with. And so many people are so far from maybe they intellectually understand that, but actually taking any actions based on that. I know. So how do you begin to unlock that prison? I think it, I mean, that is the question. I think we're wrestling with, we collectively, I guess, as like a Western society, are wrestling

with existential questions that are not new. No thoughts that we have now are really anything new. It's just all repackaged and remixed. We could go back to the Stoics and Homer. We are literally a living mixtape. I mean, it's like Plato's cave analogy. Don't even. We could just have the most cliched conversation about social media based just on that analogy.

But that is the question, and I totally get it. And when I'm sitting down to write, this is why I sit there and I'm like, oh, you're so full of shit. Because I'm like, I can say what I did, but then how can you be prescriptive in a way that means anything? And so I joke that I speak in tweets and like, you know, everything I write on my Instagram, I really mean. Like when I say these like silly, like what might be perceived as silly, you know, inspirational things, I truly, truly try and live that. And I think making the choice constantly to try to be your quote unquote best self, it's all about a thousand micro decisions every single day.

And I think people forget that. And then when they fall off, you know, I posted something that really resonated after the new year about New Year's resolutions. And to the extent that New Year's resolutions motivate folks, I think it's great. But for the most part, it's really just an arbitrary day. It's like start your New Year's resolution, like, March. I mean, I don't know, like every day. Every day you should be resolving to be better than you were even an hour before. Because we're all going to fail all the time.

So you just have to keep reinforcing that will. My evolution has really been forged out of pain. You know, sort of like I'll just drive the truck off the road until I just have no other choice but to look in the mirror. And that's just kind of how I'm wired. And luckily, I've been able to have some painful moments that have helped redirect how I behave and all of these sorts of things. But what I always say is you don't have to hit bottom if your elevator is going down. You can get off at any time. Absolutely. down you can get off anytime absolutely and i look at your story and i'm like you know first of all like you just glossed over the fact that you were you had this hostage experience because we talked about it last night i'm just saying i know so you know somebody's listening and they didn't

like they have not listened to the i'll say this in the intro but if they haven't listened to you know the other episode they should definitely do that first but i didn't want people to think that i just let you drop that and like, never like said anything like, oh, yeah, the hostage thing, whatever. Yeah. You know, so you had that experience, which, you know, certainly was incredibly traumatic. And I think maybe, you know, I don't know how consciously aware you are of it, but I'm sure has played a huge part in the decisions that you've made about your career and your life and living every day as if it's your last and all of that. I mean, I don't think you could say that that hasn't informed that. And that was your, you know, I think that, you know, even though many of the decisions you

made were so much further down the line on the timeline, you know, it wasn't like a pro like the next day you walked out on the law firm, you know, there was a lot of things, other things that happened. That was what, you know, I like to call your sacred moment. You know, this is your sacred moment. And I think we all have these sacred moments or we're all blessed with them. But our culture is structured and oriented around removing pain and removing obstacles. When really, like, to sort of, you know, quote Ryan Holiday's book, like, the obstacle is the way. Oh, yeah.

The obstacle should not be something that you're trying to run an end run around. It should be the thing you're trying to tackle head on. And whether that dismantles you or you overcome it, either way, that's a win. Because if it destroys you, then that's the foundation for change and a new way of being and living. And if you overcome it, well, that's in and of itself, there's a victory that will set you on a certain path. for what you want your life to be is really the approach that we should be having as opposed to like, well, I don't, you know, like we're all about like, you know, comfort and security and all these sorts of things. And we've lost our connection and our sort of very tactile sense of how important that is in a life experience. And if somebody, if your friend is going through

something like that, your job is not to try to help comfort them through it. Allow them to feel that moment. That is their sacred moment. Do not deprive them or rob them of that. Yeah. And I think that I love how in the podcast you address these life hacks because the idea of taking shortcuts to everything and fast forwarding things and everything is, we're in such an age where things are, we're experiencing things so quickly. And we are too comfortable with being comfortable. And I think, you know, what you said of getting uncomfortable is it. Back to what I was saying about making daily decisions to get to that iterative place of where you want to be,

that circuitous way to success. If every day you're doing the thing that is within your comfort zone, pretty sure you're not going to make much progress. You're probably not going to go very far. I say that I want to be old and telling really epic stories. So when somebody was asking me, like, what's your New Year's resolution?

I'm like, it is always to do epic shit. Always. And yes, in part, that's like wanderlust and adventure but 95 of that is doing really scary things that make me very uncomfortable and that make me feel like i am going to be a huge failure but and sometimes i am a huge failure but a lot of times maybe not in the moment, but years later, moments later, I'm like, oh, that really allowed me to be here. And here is everything.

Right. And maybe even requalify the use of the word failure. Because to show up and do something that you're scared of, that is the victory in and of itself. The result of that is kind of irrelevant, I think. You're absolutely right on that. We call that failure, but why are we calling that a failure? You're right. And I think changing that, I don't know,

it's identifying along those lines, recouching the word, but also recalibrating the feeling. Like in the moments when we're like, have that feeling in our stomach, we're like, oh, I don't like this. You know, I mean, sometimes that's alarm for good reason. But sometimes it's telling you exactly where you need to go head first into. Yeah, it's different if you're, you know, walking into a warehouse at three o'clock in the morning and you're like, this doesn't feel right. That's different from like, oh, I'm signing up for a

hundred mile bike race and that makes me queasy and nervous because it's unfamiliar. Right. Or I remember so many times when I was leaving law, if I would run into somebody I admired or, you know, just feeling that hesitant, you know, those moments where you're doing like that hesitant two-step. Like in that moment, just go. Go for it. Just do it. You know, I regret, you know, approaching some folks that I might not ever get a chance

to meet again, you know, and it's just who not one conversation with them could have given one thought, planted one seed that would have, you know, informed me in some way. So the moments where we're kind of doing that little dance with ourselves, I say just go. Yeah. Well, I think that it's helpful to, to imagine yourself in the worst case scenario of whatever decision you're making. If it's a big decision, if it's like, I'm going to leave my very safe, secure, you know, well-paying career to do something, you know, I don't know what's going to happen. Like what's the worst that could happen?

Well, you know, you could be, okay, well, I can't afford the apartment that I'm in anymore and I have to do it. But you know, what's the pluses and what's the minuses. And well, I could always go back to the law, you know, like, like how, how, how like gnarly really could it get before you could like find some way of, you know, and, and everybody that I, there's always a way, you know what I mean? Like what I've realized is. Reinvention is powerful. It is so real. Well, also like, we're so scared of, like, that situation, that worst-case scenario.

But a lot of times, like, that situation isn't even all that bad. You know, like, because we're so divorced from how little we actually really need to live and, like, be happy. And we've tied our happiness to certain material possessions. And it's just not true. Like Tyler, our 19-year year old, who produces this podcast, we went through some really gnarly, like financial stuff, right? A couple years ago, and we went and lived on an organic farm in Kauai, we lived in yurts, and we didn't know whether we were going to be able to come back to our house. Like, we thought, like, maybe we're going to be living in these years, you know, like, like, uh, you know, it was a very stressful time, tenuous time. And, and we kind of went

our way through it and navigated it. And like, we are back in our house and we're very grateful for that. But I was, Tyler said the other day, he's like, that was one of the most powerful, uh, experiences I've ever had in my life. And it was fantastic. And it showed me that it made him not scared because he's like, that was like, that was scary. But like, it was so valuable because I realized like,

even in that situation, we're losing all these things that we're, we, we create attachments around. We're being taken away, but we were together and it was fine. Like we were living in a tent basically, but it was cool. We were having fun. And he's like, so he feels like he can take risks because like, it doesn't matter if he's stripped away of all these sorts of things, you know,

like he's still going to be okay. So he feels empowered to pursue his passion. And I think that that's really, that's an important lesson. Like, we're so worried with our kids, like, well, we want them to be safe and comfortable. Are we robbing them of certain valuable life experiences that could forge and form them making, you know, decisions that are maybe in their best interest down the line? Yeah. And I think that fact, you know, realizing that we can actually live with a lot less, combined with the fact that we are capable of more than we can possibly imagine, is actually one of the most powerful things. I think, okay, so I'm going to throw this out there, and you're not going to expect it, but Taylor Swift has a song lyric. I love Taylorlor man she's the talk about reinvention no shame no shame in my game sorry i'm not sorry i love taylor she's the toast of the town here now right she is and

she lives in new york now she's a big sophisticate i don't know about that but she um i think she's pretty talented but she has a lyric that says, the monsters turned out to be just trees. And there's something about that that really speaks to me because I'm like, man, it is so how we frame things in our head sometimes. And, you know, it's so amazing that Tyler had that experience because now not only does he know really how little he needs to truly be happy when he's got family and basics, but also he knows what he's capable of. And he's only just starting at 19. Yeah. So I think it's cool that hopefully a lot more young people are getting that message a lot earlier on than I did because I was a lot older.

Yeah. I mean, I think millennials sort of intuitively get that a little bit better than our generation. And that's something that Jake mentioned. Or I should speak for my generation because I'm so much older than you. You're not so much older. I am too. A little bit older. Not by much.

But, yeah, I love that. You know, we're so quick to judge our experiences and we're so ill-equipped to do that well, you know, because we're judging that. We're making judgments based on like no information. But we're also. Because we can't see the big picture of what's going on. We're so harsh on ourselves too. Like I tell people who I run with on race day, talk to yourself like you would talk to your best friend. Like we tell ourselves the worst,

the worst. And I wasn't really aware of my internal monologue until I developed a, a genuine daily meditation practice. And then now I feel so much, almost more like powerful of that. And, of course, I have terrible thoughts all the time, but I feel more in control of that transcript. How did the meditation impact that? Oh, because I think when I'm having a thought before immediately having a guttural reaction, I'm like, oh, that's a thought.

Like it's not automatically a feeling or an opinion or a truth. Or a universal truth. Yeah, it's just something that went through my head. Or you, or even you. It's just – Yeah, yeah. I mean, and just the awareness was the first part, which is how meditation helped. And then I think, honestly, the practice of meditation, like, I don't know whether it's

because I have, you know, developed some more gray matter or, like, what, but I really have, it's almost like time slows down in those moments where something that would be a split second, like, thought is A, action is B, impact is C. It's like there's space between A and B now. And I've created sort of space within that white noise. And the only thing I can really think of is meditation that's made that big difference. Yeah, that's amazing. There's a new podcast called Invisibilia. Okay, I haven't heard of it. It's another NPR new podcast. And it's all about invisible forces that have profound impacts

on our lives that we can't really see. And I think it was their first, they've only done a few, it's new. I think it was their first episode where they were talking about kind of this new idea around psychology where, you know, sort of traditionally, if you were harboring like suicidal thoughts or homicidal thoughts, like, oh, we have to go into just talk therapy and talk through your past and treat this very seriously. And this new idea of, hey, man, these are just thoughts. Why are we giving so much credence to these thoughts? Just because we come up with all kinds of crazy stuff in our head. Why do you have to take it so seriously?

Maybe we should just be more dismissive of that. Because if you're treating it so seriously, then you're feeding it. And then it becomes something that it wasn't before. And they use the case study of this guy. I'll put it in the show notes, I'll link to it. But it was super fascinating about this guy. Like, he saw like, I think it was,

I'm trying to, I'm going to remember it wrong. But I think he saw like a movie and it impacted him. And after that he was having all these crazy homicidal thoughts, like maybe I'm going to kill my wife. Oh gosh. He became obsessed with it. And he was like, but I think I'm a good person, but why can't I, why am I obsessed with like how I'm going to kill my wife?

And he was like going insane. Oh my God. And he went to all these shrinks and like, they were all like, oh, this is very serious. And he started to all these shrinks and like they were all like, oh, this is very serious. And he started to get really depressed. Like and finally he went to a guy who was like, why are you like, forget it. Like so you saw this movie and a completely different way of therapeutically treating this. which is this idea of through meditation and mindfulness separating identity from thought or higher consciousness from, you know, this sort of chatter of the thinking mind that conjures up whatever it's going to conjure up. And then we make choices about what we're feeding and what we're reinforcing.

And to know that we have more power and control over that, I think, is incredibly empowering for sort of, you know, reconfiguring whatever trajectory you're on in your life. It's made a huge difference. And I have days where I fall off. Like, you know, I have mornings where I just fight my better instinct and I grab my phone and then it's just down the rabbit hole of emails. And then 45 minutes later, I'm like, and that was the time I allotted to do this thing that is going to set up my day. And it's just, I know better. So even knowing better, I still fall. So I totally understand people who are new to the process

and haven't experienced the benefits yet easily just go back into old patterns. Email's the worst, by the way. Email is the worst. Sometimes I pick up my phone and my stomach flips because I'm just like I can't go there yet

but spending studies show that and of course I don't know where I read this probably somewhere like the New York Times TMZ definitely somebody walking out of an LA club commenting on this study somewhere like the New York Times. TMZ. TMZ, definitely. Definitely, yeah.

Definitely like somebody walking out of an LA club commenting on this study. You know, the habits of the most successful people the first two hours of your day are actually not spent answering emails and responding to things. It's doing the more difficult tasks that are going to set you up for productivity.

And for me, redefining what productive was, was really important. In my head, it was like, well, if I can bang out like, you know, these essential emails by 8am, then I'm going to have, you know, X, Y, or Z. Right. And then you're creatively depleted. Oh, my God. Totally drained. So then like, you know, the writing the book or all the things that actually could make a huge difference in your life don't get attended to. Yeah. And, you know, I will spend like three, four hours on email and then I'm done and I'm like, I don't even feel like I did anything. I felt like I was being a traffic cop standing in an intersection, you know, directing people this way or that way.

And then I'm rewarded with just more of it, you know, and it never ends. And it's like, what is the solution to that? Like, that's a really tricky thing. That's very, very difficult to navigate. But, but yeah, I mean, I think that the habits of successful people certainly definitely true, like, to really take ownership of your morning, I think is crucial. And that's something that I'm really, I mean, if I could say that I that I have a New Year's, I don't really like do New Year's resolutions. It's not really how I function. But I really am trying to be much more mindful and prioritize the true sacredness of that time in the morning and take it seriously as opposed to just going on autopilot.

And I've noticed even since December, like it's made a huge impact on my life. I was inspired. I love the podcast that you had about morning habits, because I am fascinated by other people's morning habits, because I do think there's something really special about that time. And I was not always a morning, I teach early in the mornings, most days of the week, most weekdays, but I was not at all a morning workout person. So that's definitely something that I have transformed into. But I was fascinated by what Julie said about that kind of magic hour, that like 4.30 time. Because I have been... She lives it too. I mean, she does get up at that time. I have attempted and failed many, many times to be like, you know, I'll like set my alarm and I'm like, tomorrow I'm just gonna become

like the 4am meditator person. And then I snooze and I'm like, yeah, fucking right. But I really do believe that there's something really special about that time. And I naturally wake up during that time. And for almost a decade, I've woken up around 4am. Really? Yes. So I don't know if it's body clock or something mystical, or I don't know what. This is your opportunity. But I've got to delve into that a little more. And when Julie was talking about that, I was like, man, I got to do this. I feel inspired. I think, you know,

whether you're waking up at four, four 30, or you're waking up at 10 AM, it's more about like, it's less about the hour than I think, at least this is just me personally, then just, all right, what am I, what am I going to, even if it's the first half hour or the first hour, like, how are you spending that? And just greater mindfulness around that? And coming up, like, everybody's going to be different. You know, some people need to do, you know, 20, 30 minutes of meditations. I had Michael Gervais, who's a mindfulness guy on the podcast, and he just, he just sits up in bed or while he's just coming conscious, he takes like a couple deep breaths. And that's his morning thing. Or some people need to journal for a long time. Some people need five minutes of that. I think it's just, but whatever that is, find it for

yourself and take, you know, make the commitment to at least explore what's going to work for you and make a difference. Yeah. Even if you just said, if you said, I'm just committing to 30 days where I'm going to prioritize that morning routine, I'm going to make it about mindfulness and I'm going to make it about, you know, creativity or just setting my day up right as opposed to just, you know, going to the coffee maker and getting out the door or, you know, checking my email, whatever it is that you're used to doing, I think can really shift your energy. And if you're somebody who feels stuck in your life, like people want, like you were

saying, they want the, they want the quick answer. Like, how am I going to get out of this job? Well, the, you know, it's sort of like, it's like wax on wax off, you know, like, well, you need to meditate longer. You know, it's like that you're going to find the answer through that process. Not like, you know, reading some, you know, here are the five ways to, you know, on some blog. Right. You know, exactly. And I think... Oh, Julie just walked in. Hi, Julie. Hi.

I just mentioned you. I think that also, before I started a real meditation practice, I would just set a timer for two minutes and just try to visualize my day in the most positive way that I could. So I would try to think like, okay, I have this meeting later. Let me just try to see it going well. Let me try to entertain getting an email that might set up a new project for me. And just that creative exercise as a lawyer allowed me to just dream a little bigger. It's just creating sort of that space to just think without having, you know, having the

content filled for you. I think it's really important. So yeah, it's not so much about the time. It's what can you do even within the first five minutes of your day that's going to set you on a good trajectory. Vibes. Good vibes only. Good vibes only, right? I think you on a good trajectory vibes good vibes only good vibes only right i think that's a good place to lock it down cool what do you think i'm i'm happy i think we did i don't even know where i don't i feel like we just got on a train and then yeah we're on it like well that's the deal like you know no agenda man the train's pulling out of the station yeah just keep rolling like if i lived in new york you'd be coming on the podcast every couple weeks. Awesome.

I'd be down. We're going to be back in New York a couple more times. Cool. Hopefully I'll have some type of swimming under my belt by then. Well, we're going to work on your swim. And we didn't even talk about your 100-mile bike race. It's funny. You were calling it a bike race the other day. And I was like, it's a Gran Fondo.

It's not really a race. Exactly. That just goes to show how little I know about what I'm doing. Well, it's a Gran Fondo. It's not really a race. It's going to be a different experience than you think it's going to be. That just goes to show how little I know about what I'm doing. Well, that's good. That's a good place to play. All new experiences, new modalities. And if you have questions about triathlon or cycling, you call me.

Don't let these people bully you around. Thanks, Rich. Not that you need a bodyguard. But in the back of my mind,'m like this guy i know really cool triathletes this guy's not one of them um so i will definitely let you inform how i see awesome this new sport multi-sport very cool thanks so um have a great race in tokyo thanks man and have some amazing experiences you're going to go to hong k maybe Vietnam? Maybe Vietnam. I definitely have a one-way book to Tokyo right now,

and then I'm just figuring out. Uh-oh. Are you going to come back? I'm backtracking from Hong Kong. I have to come back. Because New York's your boyfriend. New York is my boyfriend, and I'll miss my Peloton riders too much. Yes.

But yeah, it's really cool. I'm going back to Europe backpacking days where I'm like, I don't know. I've got three days to kill. I don't know where I'm going to to like Europe backpacking days where I'm like I don't know I got three days to kill I don't know where I'm gonna go take a little puddle jumper so I have two weeks to plan

basically after Tokyo nice I like it thanks you can have your own little like mini e-pray love experience I mean I've had many of those

thankfully I've intentionally created those experiences I have I just had one this morning you did? what happened? I mean you know I have these moments where I'm like on my bike and it's just like at intersection biking to yoga and i was just like i am i have moments where i feel like a total

living cliche but then i'm like no this is real i live in hyperbole and i was like this is what life is about and i'm standing at an intersection and i just like high-fived a delivery dude and I was like, fuck, yes. And it just, yeah, I don't know. I don't need to be in freaking Vietnam to have it. I want eye-open experiences everywhere and always want to cultivate that wanderlust, but I have it every day, thankfully. Every day in your life, wherever you are, you're always with you. Yeah. And that's pretty good place to be i've found thanks for talking to me thanks for having me back rich i appreciate it

at robin nyc on twitter on instagram yeah worldwide going global keep working on the book i will oh gosh peace plants plants Oh my gosh. Peace. Plants. Plants. Awesome stuff, everybody. Do me a favor. If you're not following Robin on Instagram, I would definitely make a point of that. Her stuff there always rocks. It's always inspiring.

And since we recorded this episode, Robin has already returned from her trip to Asia. I actually saw her two weeks ago when I was back in New York City. And I wanted to let you guys know that her Tokyo Marathon attempt was a hard fought battle. Her type one diabetes definitely reared its head during her run. I think it has something to do with miscalculating her insulin or something like that. But in any event, at about 10 miles in, she realized that she was running on super low blood sugar. And this left her feeling like she had been hit by a truck.

It would have been very easy for her to just stop running and bail on the race. But that's not Robin. She's not one to give up. She made it to the finish line nonetheless. Always the warrior force that she is. Send me your questions for future Q&A podcasts to findingultra at gmail.com. What else? To find all the information, education, products, tools, resources, and inspiration you need to take your health and wellness and fitness and self-actualization to the next level,

go to richroll.com. Peruse our nutrition products, our educational products, and yes, our garments, all made with 100% organic cotton. If you like the podcast, you've been enjoying the content that I've been putting out there, give us a review on iTunes. Pick up the free app in the App Store to listen to episodes older than the most recent 50 that you find on iTunes. And please continue to support the show by telling your friends using the Amazon banner ad and by sharing it on social media, especially Instagram. Just don't forget to tag me, at Rich Roll, so I can throw some love your way.

All right, you guys, see you next week. I'm out. Peace. Plants. Thank you.