The Rich Roll Podcast - Dominick Thompson On The Masculinity Of Compassion

Episode Date: July 23, 2017

When did we decide it's “manly” to repress our emotions, oppress the weak and deny our shared humanity? Somewhere along the way the aspirational qualities of masculinity have been denuded by a cultural perversion of the gender norm. Because caring and compassion should not be gender specific. This week on the podcast I sit down with my friend Dominick Thompson to reclaim the best of what it means to be truly masculine. Because there is nothing more manly than demonstrating compassion over dominance. Protection over prey. Restraint over force. Understanding over judgment. And love over bigotry. A leading voice in the vegan & plant-based athlete communities, Domz is an athlete, activist, and the founder of NYC-based start up Crazies and Weirdos — hip, sustainable and eco-friendly clothing made from recycled and organic materials. He is also the founder of Iron Brukal, a sports and fitness brand dedicated to the working professional, with plans to open training facilities in 2019. Prior to becoming a social entrepreneur and activist, Dominick was a healthcare executive responsible for the business development and management of hospital systems and other providers across the eastern region of the United States. A working athlete, Dominick's intense training schedule includes cycling, swimming, running, calisthenics, boxing, cross-fit, cross-training, weight and power-lifting. He competes in 10-12 endurance races per year, including marathons, triathlons, and ultra-races. Dominick has been recognized for his activism across a variety of major news outlets, including NPR News, ABC News, Men’s Muscle and Fitness Magazine, Esquire, Thrive Magazine, Origin Magazine, PETA.com and more. Online, Dominick activates his 159,000+ Instagram followers with a pull-no-punches mix of brutal truth education with relatable, uplifting inspiration Behind the social media and accolades, there is far more to Dominick Thompson than meets the eye. A potent, at times harrowing tale, Domz's narrative is one of unfortunate circumstance. scarring incarceration and a most unlikely redemption. It's also a story never previously told. Until now. I appreciate Dom's trust and the opportunity to help share his life account. A powerful, must listen episode, this is a conversation about hope and belief. It's about a healthy conceptualization of masculinity and the responsibilities that role entails. It's about the resolve required to transcend the victimhood of circumstance. And it's about rebirth into a purposeful life of meaning and service. Survivor. Role model. Hero. Awesome human being. Good friend. Domz is the genuine article. And today he delivers the goods. I sincerely hope you enjoy this powerful, much-anticipated exchange. Peace + Plants, Rich

I would totally do it again if I had to go back in time. No, I don't wish that on my worst enemy because it's a very difficult situation. Not everyone is built for prison, but for me it made me who the man I am today and even transformed me into this activist you see today. You're right, I did take like more of a Malcolm X route. I just read all I could, studied all I could, tried to make sense of things. And I took my skills I learned from the streets, as well as some skills I learned fresh into my year or two working in healthcare. And in the couple of years I was in college, I just applied all that. I put that all in one bag and really try to make improvements for myself mentally what I could

while I was sitting in timeout. That's Dominic Thompson and this is the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. How are you guys doing? What's happening? My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. Welcome to my podcast, the show where I go deep and long form with all kinds of amazing people that inspire me, that raise my vibration across all categories of what it means to be awesome. Today, I got a great show for you. I sit down with my good friend, Dominic Thompson. Dom is a powerful voice in the vegan plant-based athlete animal rights movement. He is the man behind Crazies and Weirdos, which is a socially conscious apparel line. And he's got an extraordinary and extremely powerful story to

tell. It's a story that he has never before spoken publicly about until now. And there's a few more things I want to say about Dom, who is an awesome dude, a solid human being, a good friend. But first. All right, today's episode. So I know I read a listener email just the other day, the previous episode, just before this one, but I got a new message and I got to read you guys this. I just got to do it. I got to read it to you. So bear with me.

I'm going to bring this around. I promise you when I'm done, it will all make sense. This is a message from Mary, and she says this. Rich, I messaged you some time ago regarding my former partner who has been addicted to opiates for over 10 years. He grew up with mob boss Whitey Bulger as his mentor, not knowing where it would bring him. Well, eventually, in a room 23-7 watching TV

and maintaining his addiction to opiates until he was eventually arrested and put in jail for the past three years. He was more free in jail than his own prison on the outside. Oh, and add mental illness to that recipe. Anyway, he recently got out and myself and my daughter are vegan and I had him watch What the Health. Because he is an intelligent person, he recently got out and myself and my daughter are vegan and I had him watch What the Health. Because he is an intelligent person, he immediately went into the freezer and threw out all meat and for the past two weeks has been plant-based. I introduced him to your podcast and he is really enjoying it.

I had him listen to the podcast on righting wrongs. Now he has been listening every day. You have inspired me and I am shocked. Jack is so open-minded to this new world after so many years of suffering. He is also meditating daily as well. I just wanted to say thank you. You're making a difference on and on and on. So Mary and Jack, Mary, thank you for sending me this email. Jack, thank you for listening to the podcast. sending me this email. Jack, thank you for listening to the podcast. Congratulations on the changes. It's just, that is an amazing email. That is an amazing email to receive. And this is the why behind what I do. It's getting emails like this that really motivate me to continue the path

and to, uh, you know, put out into the world what I work hard on putting out there. So if you are listening, Mary and Jack, I will say that if you enjoyed the podcast with Shaka Senghor, that's the one on writing wrongs that you refer to in your email. Shaka is the guy who built this extraordinary life of service and activism after spending 19 years in prison. Then you guys are going to really like this episode with my man Doms. And that's just a fact. And you know what? I think that's all I'm going to say about this episode with my man Dom's. And that's just a fact. And you know what? I think that's all I'm going to say about this episode other than that it's super powerful and that I want to thank Dom for trusting me with his story. Again, it's a story he has never before spoken publicly about.

And I thank him not only for sharing it with myself and with you guys, but also for the opportunity to help tell it. And with that, please enjoy my conversation with Dominic Thompson. All right, man, let's do it. Dom Z in the house. Yes, sir. Good to see you, man. Good to see you too. We've been talking about doing this for a couple of years now.

Yeah, I know. It's been a while. It's been a long time coming. But I think the timing now is just perfect, too, especially with this new transition happening in my life. We're going to get into all of it. Yes, sir. I'm excited about the transition. It's going to be a good thing.

But before we do that, tell me, what are you doing in L.A., man? I'm out here in L.A. I had a couple of meetings and just ramping up my West Coast team for the crazies and weirdos, a few initiatives that we have going on with that. And we're doing the Eat, Drink, Vegan Festival this Saturday, so it should be pretty fun. Yeah, you asked me before the podcast if I was going, and I was like, I don't know, what is that? I hadn't heard of it.

Right. I feel bad. I'm not in the loop, man. All the cool kids know what's going on. Yeah, all the cool kids know what's going on. It's basically like the Coachella vegan events. It's pretty big, pretty epic. That's going to be at the Rose Bowl.

Now I'm pissed. Yeah, you got to come on down. I didn't even know that. Good food, good beer, and your community. It should be like over 10,000 to 15,000 people out there. Out in Pasadena, right? Out in Pasadena, yeah. So what do you mean the people from Coachella?

Yeah, my understanding, I guess the people over there at Coachella are now part of that management team or either integrated together. I don't know them all personally. I've been dealing with – by the way, Eat, Drink, Vegan has a great team. I've been dealing with those guys, Nick and his team. But, yeah, they're growing pretty big where I wouldn't be surprised if you see them on the New York region doing the Eat, Drink, Vegan East Coast style. Is this the evolution of the Vegan Beer Fest that was in like Hollywood? It is. And they rebranded and renamed it.

That's correct. And it's the only one that I'm aware of as far as vegan beer festivals around. So, yeah. Yeah. You go to a lot of these events, man. These like VegFest type situations. Actually, no. You know to a lot of these events, man. These like veg fest type situations. Actually, no. You know, that's the thing.

People from all over the world, a lot of these festivals have been trying to get me. Just like you and I have been talking about doing things. They was like, Dom, you got to come out here. You got to come out here. And, you know, I just haven't had an opportunity to do so because I work over 50 hours a week. So, I couldn't do it, but now I'm able to do it more. So yeah, you'll see me definitely at more events for sure. Right.

So you've been, I think a lot of people who have been following you might even be surprised to know that you have a nine to five job. Yeah. You don't talk about that that much, but like, what have you been doing? Like, what do you do between in the daylight hours? Yeah. So not on instagram when i don't have my red cape on i uh i do yeah i work for a living i work in corporate america i'm a health care executive and uh what that means is i develop business deals uh specifically between the hospital system uh systems out there the ancillary providers the surgery centers all all those guys, even the

medical groups, I developed the deals with them to provide services for different communities, as well as they're our clients, as well as the payers, the payer system. So what we call in managed care world, the BUCAs of the world, Blue blue shield united signa etna those are also our clients so we're the middleman you know we're the largest uh national ppo network around we're a nine billion dollar company so yeah i developed those deals between those guys and and run those markets specifically yeah how long you been doing that oh man i've been in health care. I've been in health care close to, I want to say, a little over 15 years. Yeah, I've been doing that. It's been a long time. Yeah, just as long as I've been plant-based. Yeah, I've been plant-based by 16 years. Right. And so you said transition. So are you like leaving or what are you doing? Yeah, finally closing the door in that world. You know, it's a lot of reasons behind that.

You know, one of the main reasons is policies have shifted. It's a different monster where healthcare used to be when I first started off, you know. So not only do you have the hospital system and the providers that are more in line with trying to monetize and let's be frank, be greedy with things. You also have the companies like the one I work for, it's all about money. And so all these parties from the companies that have negotiated the deals, the payers, the providers, all are about the money. They're all getting greedy and they all are getting, in my opinion, kind of sloppy and forgetting about the mosters, the providers, all are about the money. They're all getting gritty and they all are getting, in my opinion, kind of sloppy and forgetting about the most important,

very important person to this whole formula, which is the patient. They actually now, in managed care world, refer to the patient as consumers. And then, you know, so then, you know, that's a problem. So, you know, one of my ambitions was to initially be in healthcare. I hit a ceiling anyway. Um, and now I'm just going full on entrepreneur because I started this pretty cool company called crazies and weirdos, which I'm sure we're going to get into in a second. So, uh, yeah, leaving, leaving corporate America behind. Yeah. That's scary, but also exciting, man. I mean, if you're going to take that leap, you've been in, you've had a, basically a paycheck for 15 years and that's allowed you to have like the side hustle of like creating

crazies and weirdos and getting it up on its feet and being able to, you know, sort of tend to it in your free time and on weekends, you know, go into events when you can to get it out there and you've built it to a certain place, but now the opportunity to be able to step into it full time, that's got to feel good, but also maybe a little terrifying. Yeah, yes and no. So I've been in this side of the world in terms of pretty much making money specifically almost out of nothing is what we refer to from originally from my upbringing, my hood, Chicago, basically makes something out of nothing. So it could be scary, but I'm optimistic. I have full confidence that I will be okay.

And you're right. I don't need a steady paycheck. You got to think about your health care. You got to think about, you know, different, your cost of living, your living situation and everything like that. Luckily for me, I don't have any children. So I'm able to take that risk. You're not married either. I'm not married either, yeah.

So you're living in New York City. It's cheap. It definitely ain't cheap. It definitely is not cheap living in New York City. But if you're not going to do it now, then you're not going to do it. That's the whole point. That's the whole point. You got to take that leap.

Now's the time. Exactly. Time is perfect, yeah. And we're going to get into crazies and weirdos and the whole thing but i think before we launch into that let's like take it back man i want to hear i want to hear the clark kent origin story let's do it let's do it so you grew up in chicago i mean you we've talked a little bit offline a little bit about this so i know a little bit about your story and you referenced it a little bit when we did that panel at nyu about a year ago yeah but you weren't ready to come and talk about it on the podcast yet yeah because nine to five i guess but now you got a green light i got a green light yeah yeah just this

no full full-on information anything you want to know about me, I can definitely talk about it now. A year ago, I didn't really want to speak on it because I knew I still had to go back to this job and this position where, listen, if anyone, Rich Rolls podcast is pretty big and anyone in my in my world here, what some of the things I've been through and what I've seen and done, you know, people will be judgmental. So, you know, I just wanted to be careful with that and not really come out with that part of my origin story. So, yeah. Yep. That's pretty much reasoning why I didn't want to do that at first. But, yeah, ready to talk about all of that good stuff. Good, man. Well, you know, I can understand that. Yeah, for sure. All right. So kid in Chicago. Kid in Chicago. Paint the

picture. West side of Chicago. Anybody that's from Chicago know what the west side is about. And today these kids even define Chicago as like Chirac because of the murders, the killings and stuff like that. So I grew up on pretty much the West side of Chicago, the Austin area, a single parent home, cliche movie stuff where, you know, I'd have a father around any role model, anything like that. My mom was working two jobs. She's a nurse working her ass off. There was times I wouldn't even see my mom because she was too busy working the third shift. When she can pick up three shifts, she would. That woman was amazing to have some of the most amazing energy.

So it was just me, her, my two older sisters, four of us. And we initially stayed in like a one bedroom apartment in Chicago. And my mom eventually saved up enough money to move us out of one of the worst areas in Chicago, right off of Division and Lockwood and Crystal area and moved us closer to Austin area, right down the border of Austin area. So she good for her for doing that because she just want us to go to a better school system. I was her only son. So she was like, you know, he can't be brought up into this. Unfortunately, we didn't move far enough away because I still end up getting involved in street stuff, street activities and stuff like that. So, yeah, I grew up in Chicago and, you know, I was a pretty advanced kid. I was very creative, very creative with the pen and pad

and drawing a lot of good stuff. And even then, I made a connection with animals and stuff like that. My mom would feed me, like, chicken wings. And every time she'd give it to me, I'd push back to her because I felt like there was a little bitty arms, you know what I mean? Like, going through, digging through those wings, and sometimes you'll see, like, the little, I guess, the stems from the original feathers on there and seeing all that cartilage and those bones and those veins.

It was just like it just grossed me out. It just I instantly knew that it wasn't for me. So I fight with her. But my mom, it's kind of hard to tell your mom who's struggling paycheck to paycheck with three kids and two checks like you don't want that. Right. How old were you? I was about eight years old. Yeah, probably yeah about seven or eight years old so you're gonna eat that you're gonna eat that you know what i had to do to put that there you're gonna eat it yeah but it

kind of reminds me of those viral videos that pop up from time to time we see these little kids trying to explain to their parents that they don't want to eat you know that chicken or that fit or whatever it is like and the kid just makes is using logic against the parents in a way that the parents can't even come back. They have no retort for it. Correct. And those little videos end up going bananas online. I know. So many of them online, too.

Yeah. I think they're cute videos. Yeah. So, I was one of those original cute kids saying, no, mom, I don't want this. And this is why. Before this day and age so but she got smart uh she ended up uh buying loads of fish sticks uh and and and chicken breasts because to me visually when i see all white um i i was fine with that like all white flesh i was okay i just didn't want to see the bones and yeah i didn't want to see the bones or any dark meat and stuff like that or any slime and i started eating that so i kind

of lost in touch with that uh initial whatever that energy whatever that experience i went through at that age it kind of just got swept under the rug with just uh you know eating all this fish sticks and chicken breast so uh but still, the compassion was there. I mean, I remember breaking up dog fights in my neighborhood. I remember fighting my own some of my own close best friends, my homies growing up where kids, boys, me and boys, you know, taking straight taking rocks and throwing them at straight cats and dogs. I would I would slap them across the head and then you know they'll fight back with me but i physically get in hand-to-hand fights with these guys because i felt like that was not the right thing to do so i always had that compassion in me

i think right that was all this is in in your fiber from the get-go like you always have that yeah sensitivity exactly and and and for me even to this day i just have a problem with people bullying other people especially if you have an advantage you know what i mean like i've seen some big whether you're a big kid or uh or or anything that you can take advantage of someone that just can't defend themselves to me i just think you're a coward for that you know what i mean like pick on somebody on the side that was all my always my mentality so yeah i always had it in me for sure uh so yeah that that was initially one thing i started really paying attention to uh and i wasn't i wasn't like this huge kid but i definitely wasn't a small kid i always been like husky you know like a husky size so are you playing sports i did i played football

um i started playing football in the fifth grade. And I remember seeing Bo Jackson on TV and I was like, I want to be like Bo. That was the whole Nike marketing campaign, right? Like be like Bo. They did a good job, especially on a kid like me. You know, I liked Bo Jackson. I like Lawrence Taylor at the time. And I taught myself how to play football. I didn't have anybody show me. I just went out there, tried out for a team and taught. Well, before I tried out for the team, I would just play in my own room and pretend like I was tackling people and running with the ball. Like I also used to hang a towel on my shoulders with safety pins that I was Superman. on my shoulders with safety pins thought I was Superman.

You know, I had a big imagination growing up as a kid. And I guess that's what happens when you have, you being the only boy and you don't have any adult showing your attention. I didn't have any type of role models. And how much older are your sisters? They're a lot more older. They are in their 40s now. I'm 38. older. They are in their 40s now. I'm 38. They are maybe about five, six. The oldest is about 10 years older than me. And the second oldest is about five to six years older than me.

Right. But when you're like 10, that's just a whole other universe. Exactly. And imagine your teenage sister supposed to be watching you she's not paying attention to you she's too busy chasing boys you know and i had to defend for myself you know i so i had a pretty grow up on my own in a pretty um complex neighborhood and situation and my role models growing up was pretty much drug dealers and game bangers you know that was and then my mom i was like i felt like i seen the worst and i seen the best and i've had my first experience with death when i was just four years old me and my mom and my sisters was in a car um and then um we i seen this guy shot point blank range, brain shot out, just sitting at the light when he went right past our vehicle. And he hit one of these girls that was standing on the corner.

I don't know if I think he was drunk driving or whatnot. And then all the what we the gang at that time was the insane vice lord, real notorious gang in Chicago. same vice lord real notorious gang in chicago uh my mom just picked us up from my grandmother's house and it was at least five it's five to six of them all just unloaded and i'm on them in the car and so he's he's drunk driving he he he hits a girl yeah who's a friend of the gang or whatever no not a friend of the gang keep in mind people think people think gangs are all about bad things and crimes. But back then, they was really organized to protect the community. So naturally, and that's actually one of the laws of some gangs, you know, to protect your community.

Because, you know, police don't do it. You know, and these guys was there organized. So, yeah, it wasn't a friend. They didn't know that young lady at the time. But they were just responding like this drunk driver hit this woman or this little girl rather and yeah i seen it you know like just that was my first introduction into violence into gang life wow that's intense uh but you know tending to the community take care of the community and that's the most effective recruiting tool too for sure and that's why you as a little kid you're going to look up to these guys look these guys are taking care of people they got our best interest at heart

especially in the 80s yeah you're going to aspire to want to you know be under the wing of you know whoever's in charge right yeah well not just actually no i always been like an alpha natural alpha i mean like i have a problem taking orders uh but my in my you got no dad around, though, and you're looking. Yeah, but I got but that's the thing. I didn't have a father around, but I had cousins around and uncles and my cousins and uncles was big time leaders in those communities, in those games. Like, in fact, I don't have. Unfortunately, all of them are either dead, been murdered because of gang violence or in jail. And but they were really people like my cousin, Boobie, that used to pick me up in his Regal. He had a little jerry curl going Nike suit, gold rope chain, bumping NWA down the street, picked me up, like, get in a little man. And we used to ride around, and he used to school me.

And he's what they call today a dope boy. And, you know, a dope boy is somebody that in those days, he was selling a lot of drugs. He was a part of a gang, but he was a general, you know, in the high-ranking field. So he had a lot of money coming in, and he was calling a lot of shots, and he used to look out for me. So, yeah, Boobie was one of my first role models and stuff like that he was kind of grooming me to be

something that i eventually started to go but that i eventually did become that that caught up with me later on that we'll probably that we are going to get into right i mean how does that how does that start like hey run an errand for me or just ride with me hang out with me and no not at all just like family man just like natural you don don't realize like what's going on around. You don't realize that this, you know, as a kid, you don't realize he has probably two guns under his seat, you know, have a stash for the cash. And it's somewhere in the panels broken up in his car and even a wad in his pocket for his cash and stuff like that. One thing I will say about Boobie, though, he didn't he didn't bring that around us. You know, like none of his his younger cousin, male cousin, he didn't show us this.

Like, this is what you got to do to make this and stuff like that. But he was just I put two and two together. And, you know, I seen other areas from other cousins doing it. But, you know, Boogie believed in not showing the ones you really care about what you really doing in terms of the negative things that are bringing money and cash flow to your family, if that makes sense. Yeah. You're keeping away from your family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you're a young kid.

You're starting to play some football. Yeah. Where does the trouble start to creep in? Yeah, so I played football in fifth grade, did really well, and played in seventh and eighth grade. But keep in mind, you have all seasons. So trouble started happening around maybe seventh and eighth grade. Money was tight, and there was a missing factor out of the boobie he was gone movie was murdered um and then my cousin walter he was murdered before that and

and so um and then my cousin matt was put away from almost for like 20 years and then an uncle that was put away so all these males that i you would yeah, that you think you could depend on was pretty much MIA, you know. And so I always, listen, man, I always wanted to be a football player. I always wanted to play, but also knew I had to make money. You know what I mean? I had to make money. And I just started, I want to say, yeah, around in that junior high area, I belong to a clique. Me and my close friends at the time, we all belong to our own specific clique. And we all was associated with the vice lords and stuff like that.

But in that era, in that specific time, we all was introduced collectively into some situations where I don't want to incriminate myself, but we we was introduced into some things. And and that's when it started pretty much in the junior high era. Yeah. If that makes sense, because we all we all have a lot. We all had a lot in common. We always have fathers around, but we we all had each other back and stuff like that and and we always kind of through our own affiliation our own bloodline pretty much already pouring into that life if that makes sense you know what i mean so it's not like we was not going out there like hey look at me can you recruit me we was already recruiting it was already in our blood yeah i mean how much free will is there really it really isn't that much

uh i mean there it depends on what area we're talking about. If we're talking about money, cash, and all that, that's different. But if you're talking about free will in terms of decision-making to, I guess, be a part of an organization, I think now that I look back on it, I don't think I couldn't avoid it. It was just something that I had, it was a stage in my life I had to go through, you know, it just had to be done, um, because it was heavy in my family. It was even, even had female cousins that was gangbanging, you know what I mean? So it was pretty all around, around me. And, and, and then I got introduced into, like I said, at junior high, you see these dope boys pulling up in these $40,000 cars.

And you want to provide. You just want to put food on the table. And you want to make a better way instead of, you know, I wasn't even legally couldn't even work at that time. You had to be 15 in Illinois to work anyway. So you got to start making some money. You know, and it was pretty easy. One thing I would say about it is it's pretty easy. It's just like someone giving you a wholesale stuff. Like, I mean, Hey, I had that way in where like, Hey, you make it happen. Here's the endless supply, you know? And, and I took that opportunity and,

you know yeah and and i took that opportunity and um and it took off unfortunately i took off to the point that i shot up to the top you know in terms of um like i said i was part of an organization um and i was calling shots um how long did that take for it to catch up to me no before you were like got up on the road up. Well, it took some years, but it just naturally, when you become in that age range where you post high school. This is post high school. High school is just all about getting money and still playing football and doing some teenage stuff. But I was that kid that wasn't playing video games so my free time if I wasn't playing football I was making money you

know on the side and stuff like that and when you're bringing money home what's your mom my mom never knew she never so so you have her that's the thing she never do yeah she's not really putting food on the on the table right so doing that yeah and so he knows what's up. No, she didn't because, see, here's the thing. You got to get smart. So when I did turn 15, I picked up a job. Wow.

Yeah. Your way of sort of laundering the whole situation. There you go. I mean, you got to check yourself for something. You know, I was always smart. I wasn't no dummy, you know. So, yeah, I had to check. Check's coming in and the funny thing about it rich uh i always had a job until i end up later you know when this situation hit the fan right like i always worked always oh and that's i

guess that's the side that i seen in my mom if this woman can make work two to three jobs what the fuck am i doing you know like i should be working two to three jobs and that's also was my way of kind of like eventually leading away from that that environment i seen a hard-working woman and the maturity started to catch up with me yeah so some things i did do as a teenager in my adolescence years really didn't make sense at the time but as i got older 15 16 17 18 and in that area especially like 19 i was like what the fuck am i doing you know you know i gotta get out of this shit you know so but when you're 18 19 and you're kind of at the the peak of

whatever you're you know you're sort of yeah i was definitely responsibilities were at that peak what are you bringing home and and what are you actually doing? I don't know if I could tell you what I was bringing home. The statute of limitations is probably run. I don't know. I don't know. I put you this way. I don't want you to incriminate yourself.

I just want to get an understanding of what your life was like. I mean, I've said this before on the podcast, but I come from, dude, I come from upper middle class suburbs. I have no point of reference for your experience other than watching movies and watching The Wire. You know what I mean? So when you're telling these stories, I'm sitting here thinking about The Wire because that's the closest association that I can make to what that experience must have been like. I don't know how realistic that is. It is realistic. A portrayal of what it was. The Wire is very realistic, but it's for that city what they call be more

different city and all that different city but just sort of the the organizational structure of how it all worked and what that lifestyle was like yeah it was definitely organizational structure and a little bit to that um but the era that getting towards like my 19 in that era, like when I was 19, there was an evolution in gang life. Like Chicago historically used to be sort of like that where you have rules, you have laws and stuff like that. But getting into if you if you back up and do your history on gangs, like I told you at the beginning of the podcast, gangs was originally formed to protect communities. And then when drugs started getting introduced and money started to get introduced, you had different agendas being pushed, different egos being pushed. And that's when the killing started happening and stuff like that. And even into the 90s, some of the original OGs and original chiefs of these organizations try to hold on to the base of that, the rules, what we call the laws of the nation.

We refer to my organization as a nation. And but around that 19 era, like you start to see what people start doing, what we call being renegades, you know, all over the place. Because a lot of the higher ups and the senior leadership of these organizations started getting indicted by the feds and getting taken away. So there was no structure in place. And then you just started seeing people really be more so with their own cliques within that nation, within that gang. So it was multiple.

Anarchy, you don't know who's in charge. And so there's power struggles and people are got, got their side hustle on and a lot of stuff. It was part of the power struggle. You have, and you even have gangs fighting with each other, killing each other. Who are the other gangs?

You have all the gangs. You have four-corner hustlers. You have vice lords, a different fraction of vice lords, tribal vice lords, mafias, unknown vice lords. You have GDs, the Gangster Disciples, the BDs, and all that. You have a lot of us out there, a lot. disciples, the BDs and all that, you have a lot of us out there, a lot. Chicago is very known for probably the biggest concentration of gangs,

for sure. Yeah. So you work your way up until you have a certain amount of responsibility. You probably got guys working underneath you, and you're taking on Bubby's role. I don't know. You're not going to tell me, so I'm going to make it up. But at some point, you start to look around and say, you know, I got to get out of this. Like, I mean, I would imagine that not too many people get out of the life.

They don't. When you see that money coming in, you got guys. So, I'll give you an example of the type of lifestyle I had. Like, at 19, I had, you you guys probably some of your podcast members probably know what I'm going to say well gonna really understand how expensive some of the the material things I'm gonna name off they may can understand this but you know I had like kuji sweaters galore and kuji sweaters back then was like 800 to 1200 remember that i had a probably about 50 to 60 of them if you so you can imagine how much which i was spending on i had throwback

jerseys the throwback jerseys was like 300 to 500 i had about 50 to 60 of those you know like at any given season i'm not talking about accumulated over a while um and i had you're putting this in your closet at home and your mom doesn't know what's up i had i had multiple girlfriends at the time all right yeah yeah yeah i have multiple uh i have multiple places yeah for sure um and i and i had stuff there in different areas but yeah not just that you had the pelly pelly jackets that was like twelve hundred dollars you had crystals crystal pop i was in a club i was doing things i started clubbing when i was 16 getting into that lifestyle but then at 19 i was doing things i was doing almost anything i wanted you know running the streets having a good time were you using were you tapping into the stash

or no no we mean like the drugs no i never. That's the funny thing about it, Rich. I never took drugs in my life. The only drug I ever experienced with was marijuana. That's it. And I left that alone. To me, I'm a Capricorn. I don't believe too hardcore in horoscopes, but I do feel like design-wise and based on maybe the star I was born on or whatever, however you want to get deep with that. But me, I'm a man that needs to be in control of his body, you know, and that is a

trait of alpha. You know what I mean? Like I just can't lose control. I can't just, I just never been that way by design at all. So it was just, and the only thing that I can appreciate even to this day, like I will, you know, I do drink alcohol, but I never abused it. You know, so drugs and even coming from my era, a lot of guys from Chicago and even I would say about 90 percent of guys that hustled and sold drugs in my city, in my in the Midwest region. We was always educated and taught never never abuse it even if I did have that trait in me to experience that was a no-no or you'll

you'll be what's called under violation you know you just we just don't believe in that once you start doing that you're you're unreliable

you're fucked you're fucked yeah so yeah never experience with cocaine none of that you know never experience with that all right so you're rolling deep with all kinds of crazy clothes and

all kinds of girlfriends yeah you know i mean that's you know you're in i was in that's like there's no other plan right you're not saying I was in. That's like, there's no other plan, right? You're not saying like, oh, I'm going to college. I'm going to play college ball. Well, so let's back up a little bit. So I ended up breaking my ankle severely. I was a really good football player. I played middle linebacker in high school. And I broke my ankle in like multiple areas.

And really bad that it messed up my scholarship opportunities and stuff like that. And that's when I was. You could have have that track. Like you were good enough that you were going to get scoped out by some schools and be able to go that route. Yeah, I was. Yeah. Again, like I said, football coach, you know what you were doing with your free time? No, no, no, no. And he, they used to tell us to like, for you,

rest in peace to him. He's, he's dead now, but they used to tell us that if you're not playing football in all season you got to be in the weight room or wrestling or on the track team and i was just like no coach i'm just doing the weight room that's it like and i did do wrestling at one point but to me wrestling with a bunch of uh guys i i just really didn't care for that you know what i mean like i just i didn't really take to wrestling. It's just something that I was like, fucking wrestling with another guy. What was the racial demographics of your high school? It was actually pretty even. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's because, again, my mom moved us into a better area in Chicago, thanks to her. And I think, and it's not a thing, between her, seeing her working hard and the demographics of the better school i went to that's why i made better decision that's why i did go to school my first year out of high school i went to college so i was in college full-time even working and and that's when i in around that 1920 era was like okay it's time to leave i made my money it, I'm done. And I wanted to focus fully on school because it was just, I was getting burnt out, dude.

I was only working. I mean, I was only getting like six hours of sleep and I was just really catching up with me, that lifestyle, you know what I mean? And so I left it alone. I did. And I went to school full time, I worked full time.

Hold on a second though. So how does that conversation go? Can you just walk away and say, hey man, I'm done? Yeah. And they let you go? Well, here's the thing say, Hey man, I'm done. Yeah. And they let you go. Here's the thing at that level. And again,

this is during the time where there's really no structure. I was my own boss, if that makes sense, because I wasn't, it's a difference between gang banging and, and providing for the nation versus just strictly selling drugs. I, at the time was just strictly selling drugs.

I was way, way beyond just, just like gang banging and what were you selling specifically cocaine powder cocaine and um yeah yeah so when you made that decision to leave that was not that wasn't a contestuous situation with the organization no no like i said it was it was something that uh wasn't a factor yeah it wasn't a factor at all yeah yeah it wasn't a fact you just cut it cut the cut the rope and went fully legit yeah i did i went fully legit uh went to school uh went to college my first year out uh maybe my first year

in college well i went to community you make make enough to pay for college and stuff? No comment. All right. So you're in school. Yeah, I'm in college. My first year, first two years in college, and I'm in college. And I end up going down to, I went to SIU, Carbondale, and I came back up to Columbia. And when I came back to to Chicago, this is right around I was like 21. I at that time, there was a big drought in Chicago is what we call in the streets a drought, meaning no one has supplies to produce drugs and stuff like that.

And, you know, when I came back, obviously familiar environment, familiar things, going to college and stuff like that. And what ended up happening is a friend needed a favor. And that friend's person that started that conversation of that situation ended up being an informant for something that I orchestrated. Well, not orchestrated, but I pretty much gave the green light for, if that makes sense. And that in turn turned out to a situation where it caught up with me, that one specific situation, and i end up getting indicted uh so that's all super vague yeah you know what i mean like i don't know quite i don't know quite what you're saying but what i gather out of that is yeah some you know an old you're back in town old buddy says hey man i know you're clean you're legit but like just do this one thing for me yeah help a brother

out yeah you're like i don't know he's like come on you're like all right you do this one thing for me yeah brother out yeah like I don't know he's like come on you're like all right this one thing and it's just like in this almost like a trap man so it's gonna be like yeah oh it's just that last thing man and then you're clear you could just just do this one thing for me and that's always hit it then you're then you're then you're fucked you hit it right on the head yeah for sure it was like just do this one last this one last runny boo like let's do it man let's do it, man. Let's do it. And yeah. And it was, it was a bad mistake that put me in the situation. I ended up getting indicted and by the United States of America, I got indicted by the feds.

U.S. Attorney. What was the charge? It would end up, we end up pleading to possession with the intent to distribute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a possession. And did you go past indictment? What do you mean by that? So did you go to trial?

Did you plead? Yeah, let's get into that. So, you know, listen, my lawyer calls me. You know how most lawyers call. But I spent, this guy was like pretty top of the line lawyer. Well, you're not talking about local police. You're talking about. No, no, no. You're just turning.

This is for real. Yeah, this is real. There's nothing scarier. For all you guys out there that don't understand, this is like, it don't get no better than this. I tell you what, when the DEA had me in their van after they beat my ass and they wrapped me up and stuff, they was like, you know, welcome to the big leagues. Now you're with the big boys. So that's how the arrest went down? Yeah, me it's about 30 breakers 30 agents windbreakers

and everything like they just came out of nowhere swarming like out of nowhere like guys some guys that looked my age at the time like it was crazy it was crazy and they beat my ass they beat me they put me in the van they beat me up um you know for whatever reason it is. And yeah, and they took me down and it was like, we got you, we got you, got you, got you, got you. And that's what that situation happened. So I end up getting one of the top lawyers that money could buy that I can afford at the time. And he told me, he was like, listen, if you, and he he knew the situation it definitely was an opportunity to go to trial you know it's just like you explained like you can't force a crime keep forcing it it's not like i was biting it's not like i was looking for trouble okay i was not

looking for trouble but they kept forcing it but eventually my mistake i i gave into it and like he said i want to take them to trial i know you want to take no trial but listen if you go to trial you at 21 yeah you won't be home until you're in your 30s your early 30s this is a minimum minimum 10 years minimum 10 years they're gonna give you about a minimum 10 years and he was like i just can't you got to think about that and he said you also got to think about the fact like think about all the shit you used to do this is karma this is your this is you gotta pay it forward you gotta pay it back man this is i think about all the shit you used to do thank god it happened now you know whatever the case may be but you gotta pay your dues and if you lose these people are gonna fuck you and and it's not gonna be good man it's not gonna be good and i remember and when he said i

had a thought in my mind when i first got indicted and i turned around and see my mother that was the first time in my life as a man that i was shook up like far as seeing how much harm i did to any human being um and and and from you guys out there that know about me, I have a pretty, pretty, I'm pretty, I'm very compassionate about animals. But human beings, I have a different outlook on. And this only one human being that was able to really have that type of impact on me was my mom. And I seen how much I hurt her because this woman, you know, she thought she did enough. You know, she didn't have anybody. She was trying to raise me as a young man

and stuff like that. And to see her broke down emotionally and I couldn't, I feel like I couldn't put her through this whole thing. Going to trial, back and forth. So I ended up just taking responsibility for everything. Just like, yo, just give it to me. So you just took a plea,

you just pled guilty. It was like a blind type of plea. They want you to roll on people? They wanted me to roll on people. So you couldn't leverage that? I couldn't even blind type of plea. They wanted me to roll on people? They wanted me to roll on people. So you couldn't leverage that? I couldn't even leverage that. Yeah, they wanted me to roll, and they wanted a different plea. But we told them we were going to plead guilty.

And this judge was pretty fair. He ended up eventually giving almost like a nine-year sentence. So I was supposed to do like a nickel four to five. And but I got lucked out. And and let me not rush the story, because this is a very critical part of my intro into plant based. I and you probably familiar with this what's called a drug program this is where you get about 36 months off your sentence um i wasn't eligible for that um and it wasn't in my records that i had any drug problems or alcohol problems and stuff like that right like what are you going to do in in rehab man yeah you could have pretended like you were you can't pretend you can't pretend that shit right exactly so you know when when they when they took me in into uh intake into processing um and they did it

without warning it's not like i was able to turn myself in or nothing like that so doing a status hearing after the fact we pleaded they took me took but this is before sentencing no this is after so you're so what's the sentence the sentence what the specifics yeah what did the judge give you oh he ended up giving me a total of it was like 48 months yeah okay yeah yeah about 48 yeah but also with five years supervision yeah is that like probation or is that different? Um, it's, it's not like probate. It's not probation at all. It's like supervision where you, you have also had to be on house arrest and get my vocals recorded and stuff like that. Additional post post term and stuff like

that. I got you. But felony charge. Yeah. Yeah. And what was the facility? I ended up going to start off in Minnesota, Duluth, Minnesota. And I ended up going to Colorado. I'm out there in Florence, Colorado. Yeah. All right. But I interrupted you. No, that's okay. That's okay.

Yeah. So after the term, after I was sentenced and all of that, and they grabbed me, I was just trying to make sense of it. Like, why is this happening to me? Because even a judge, I will tell you guys this, the judge was very disappointed in this whole case because it is this kid pretty much trying to make something out of himself. And, you know, went to school and was in school at the time, even working full time. I was working. That's when I was working in health care, even while in college.

And he felt like these people were just trying to fuck up my life. You know what I mean? So the judge. But his hands are tied with sentencing. Yeah, it was tied. But he went as far as he could. Like, he was like, fuck. I mean, when I tell you, even my lawyer's like, man, this judge is really trying to help you out the best he can.

Like, you know what I mean? Because he was a fair, he just, I guess he's seen the potential in me. And he felt like, yo, it's fucked up. Like, this is a bad situation. You know, this is a bad situation. And, you know, I learned my lesson. It's not like I was actively looking for troubles and stuff like that. So, yeah, when I was in there my first week of process, and I was just trying to make sense of what was happening to me.

Obviously, I knew what I used to do, but I felt like there was something bigger going on. Some energy put me in there. At the time, I was more religious. I was more religious at the time. I got on my knees and prayed and asking God, what's going on? I didn't fear prison rich um at all you know you can look at me until i can defend myself i'll be to be somebody else in a minute you know what i mean if i had to it's just that my mind i felt like i couldn't be it it just something i just felt like it's gonna fuck with me mentally you know what i mean like

because every day every day felt like a sunday you know every fucking day and that felt like it was going to fuck with me mentally. You know what I mean? Because every day felt like a Sunday. Every fucking day in there felt like a Sunday. And I was like, it's got to be a way for me to get home. It was the first time I found out. Dude, I never got arrested for nothing in my life except for that one time that we're talking about right now. Never. Never got arrested for speeding.

Never been through all the whole lot. Nothing that you would think like, oh, this dude deserved it. It was just something that I decided to do. But you said karma earlier. I mean, you were selling drugs for years. Yeah. So. Well, yeah, exactly.

I was involved. Yeah, exactly. I felt like that was the world saying, hey, come sit down. Right. Come sit down. That was that energy saying, hey, I want you to sit down and I want to put you in timeout mode and really figure out what you want to do with your life and show you what you should do with your life.

I felt like that was the energy where I had in there. I end up re-engineering my body. I end up reading over 30 books. I wrote a couple of books and then I really, really kind of re-educated myself about the world. I even studied with different cultures, whether it was the Muslims, the Christians, the five centers, the nation, you name it, Native Americans, all of that. I ended up studying and really trying to understand where these guys come from, even the white collar crime guys, because you end up with everybody, white collar,

you end up with former judges, former soldiers that went AWOL and stuff like that. So you end up around there with a mix of people. Yeah, so you weren't in like, you know, the super gnarly prison. You're in with like white-collar dudes. I went with everybody, yeah. With the feds. That's the feds. Feds, you're in with everybody.

This is not state prison where you're in gladiator school. Yeah, yeah. But you do stick to, in the feds, you tend to stick to those from your city when it comes to those situations if it's just gets it's stuff to start to happen you tend to you do you need to do you know like as you see in the movies in the TV it's like you got to find your crowd and you got to find who you're aligning with and yeah the certain people have your back and for sure you got certain people that have your back you got you you got people have your back and for sure. You got certain people that have your back. You got you.

You got people have your back. It was just like a net. But it's organic. It's not like, oh, you need to be going over there with that group and stuff like that. It's kind of like organic because you in there with people that was doing serious crimes, more mature people, a different breed of criminal. You know what I mean? You're not in there with petty nuclear and dime criminals. And and for the

most part, everything is peaceful. Everyone just want to get through their time. You know, not bother each other. But there are situations that do happen for sure. But it's not like the states. States is fighting every day. It's killing every day. It's shanking and stabbing and like that. I'm not saying take your guard off of nobody,

but you definitely it's a different it's prison, but it's a different prison. Fez is totally different in the state. So, yeah. So the circle back around when I was in there, I just trying to figure it out that first week and I got on my knees and, you know, and I just felt like this is happening to me because not only what I did, obviously, growing up to my community and being a part of something, pushing poison into people's communities. But I felt like I was a part, I made that early on that connection with the animals. I felt like I shouldn't be eating meat. Like I felt like I need to give up eating meat. That's good. And I felt like if I give up eating meat and show this energy, and again, I was more religious at the time, that this is the ultimate sacrifice.

And I shouldn't be doing no type of destroying or nothing, whether it be food or pumping poison. I should not be a part of anything negative. And I made that decision right then and there. No more meat for me. That's such an interesting, not necessarily intuitive decision to make like a mental calculus. But I, but I, I hear what you're saying.

It's sort of like, this is a purge. Like I need to cleanse my, for sure, my body and my soul. And I think it takes a certain amount of emotional maturity. I mean, look,

fundamentally the prison system is supposed to not only be punitive, but also rehabilitative. It's a broken system. And so generally, it does not rehabilitate people. It actually does quite the opposite. It sort of takes first time offenders and turns them into lifetime criminals. But you were able to have enough sense about yourself to understand, sense about yourself to understand you know what you were facing and to seize the opportunity to try to shift that you know and kind of a Malcolm X kind of way right you know what I mean like it's probably one of the books you've read in yeah I did imagine yeah you know to say I'm gonna use this opportunity for self exploration and for growth and And to do that, I'm going to start with my own physical body and what I'm putting into it. All the way that you, again, you're interesting. Yeah. You hit it again on the nail. It was exactly that. Like you're right. Listen, prisons really, they're horrible

in terms of doing or rehabbing folks into being more productive members of society. But like I tell everybody till this day, honestly, I wouldn't even be sitting here having this conversation with you if I never went away. Who knows what would happen to me. I might've even got killed in a bad situation if I would've went back into that or hell, I might've just finished up with college. And at that time. It's one big fucking time out. Yeah. One big fucking time out. That's what it was. Exactly.

But I felt like it did me. I got a lot out of it. So if I had to do it again, I wouldn't. I would totally do it again if I had to go back in time. No, I don't wish that on my worst enemy because it's a very difficult situation. Not everyone is built for prison. But for me, it made me who the man I am today. And it even transformed me into this activist you see today.

You're right. I did take like more of a Malcolm X route. I just read all I could, studied all I could try to make sense of things. And I took my skills I learned from the streets as well as some skills I learned fresh into my year to working in health care. And in a couple of years I was in college, I just applied all that. I learned fresh into my year or two working in healthcare. And in the couple years I was in college, I just applied all that. And I put that all in one bag and really tried to make improvements for myself mentally, what I could while I was sitting in timeout. You know this guy, Shakasangur? Never heard of him.

Here he is. No. I had him on the podcast. And he was in prison for 20 years, you know, had a similar experience, came out, like completely changed his life.

And he's this inspirational figure now wrote this amazing book and, you know, it's been on Oprah and all this kind of stuff, but like, you know, he was, he was in for a long time for doing some gnarly stuff. Right.

Yeah. And has been able to kind of piece it back together. And, you know, your story is a, is a version of that, you know, the, the ability to be able to look back on that with gratitude and reverence and respect as a fundamental foundational, you know, catalyst or launching pad for, you know, self maturation and evolution into this person that, you know, that you are now, I mean person that you know that you are now i mean looking back on that time could you have imagined that you'd be living the life that you're living now not at all uh not at all especially but you know like i tell people i was just speaking to

nyu last week this is why i'm so passionate about animal rights okay because i was told where to sleep and do and and fed stuff that i can eat i would give my meat to my cellies and stuff like that i would eat the size i ate it i ate a lot of oatmeal and it's got to be hard to not eat meat when you're in prison right no not really you know what do they have i mean so so i ate a lot of oatmeal i ate oatmeal like i don't even want to see oatmeal to this day i had a lot of oatmeal peanut butter and bananas mixed together a lot of granola I had a lot of oatmeal, peanut butter and bananas mixed together. A lot of granola. I had a lot of rice and beans, tons of rice and beans. Um, when they would serve like cheese or dairy and keep in mind. So I went plant-based, but I was vegetarian. You know, we didn't, I, I, of course I was uneducated in the part of the food system. So I didn't even,

I thought being vegetarian was enough for me you know what i mean to be like yo i'm not destroying something i mean it's okay to use dairy because that animal at that me thinking at the time was gonna be okay you know i mean so i was like whatever so whenever they did serve milk the little time so i ate a lot of side foods and i would just get my meat to my cellies and to go to show you that that's how bad I wanted to get home and to see like some way where the new law was introduced or if I could get home, get some time off my sentence, that's how serious I was about it

because I just wanted to get so far away from anything negative. I just didn't want to destroy anything. And so saying all that to say is when I when i took that leap into that area the last thing on my mind was like am i going to survive like protein like i didn't think about protein i'm like i didn't care like i just know i was getting food i should be okay i don't care i just want to get the fuck out of here you know what i mean and so i promise you that first week after doing that my counselor calls me and like uh thompson come in and um i went in and sat down in his office he's like all right you're gonna do x amount of time here and then you're gonna

spend your last uh year in colorado because you're going to what's called a drug program and i was like whoa the drug program he's like yeah you're shipping up out of here you're going to the drug program uh and you're going to spend um spend some time there and if you complete it successfully you're going to get about 36 months off your sentence you're going to get home early and i was like oh shit this is like the universe telling me something so and i just couldn't believe it like i was only going to do it you know a few years in this joint and and and and back so, just to tell you how that happened, my lawyer, uh, was trying to every way he could to find some way to get me into this

program. And my mom found the old medical record, old, uh, writing from a psychiatrist, um, uh, that wrote, I went to go see a psychiatrist only one time in my life. And as a little kid, cause I used to punch holes in my mom's wall. Cause I would get upset that my father wasn't around or, you know, the times he will call and say, Hey, I'll pick you up. And he never picked me up. I'll just go to work on her wall. So she's like, listen, I want you to see a psychiatrist just this one time, promise me. And, you know, and I was like you know i think i was i want to say 11 at the time or whatever and and she was like just go for me just go for me and i end up going to the psychiatrist and she said if you don't like it you don't have to go again and i went

and i told this woman you know what's going on why i'm so enraged and frustrated and stuff like that and she's like well what are you doing for that? I was like, I'm trying to play football when I can. I do drink and stuff. So I admitted to her that I was drinking. Yeah, yeah. And it's the truth. At like 11.

I was. I had my first 40 ounces. Just a sliver, like the slightest. The slightest. That your lawyer could use. Well, this is actually true, though. At the age of the age 11 i was drinking i was knocking about 40 ounces this is not doing like it was nothing yeah i was drinking beer hanging out like i was i was kicking it like in that like i said that junior high area i tell you like 12 and all of that uh getting into that area sorry

yeah um around that that that frame um she wrote that down. This young man is drinking and stuff like that. And I never went back to her cause she was just, I forgot some dumb ass solution she gave me. And I just felt like, you know what? I'm just going to pour this energy into football and into the weight room. And that's when I just started just focusing. That's all I did. Football, weight room, streets room streets that's it but you have this medical right around that your lawyer can say i can use this he sure did and you got a friendly you got a friendly judge who wants to be able to do right by you but you got to give him something well that was submitting i don't think that was even uh i don't know who was the decision maker of that at the time in the psi i think it was more uh

i forgot who made that decision to push that through as far as who said okay approved um i don't think that had anything to do with the judge but the colorado facility is i would imagine way more low-key yeah it is it was it's on the fci though it's fci and uh but it's nothing but deserts and all of that and stuff like that you know you're pretty detailed so and and again i rightfully so i was drinking throughout my whole high school years and stuff like that but that piece of record helped me get me into the drug program so i end up going there shipped out there and did my time in colorado and uh and that's what we call short timers i was on the short timer list you know just trying to stay away

from trouble uh and all of that um but did you have that like awareness like holy shit like i you know i made this decision to forgo meat almost it's like a it's kind of a spiritual decision you're not doing it for your health you're doing it to purify yourself on some level yeah it had nothing to do with health and then on the heels of that to get this good news and have you know this new sort of lease on life this hope you know you're gonna get out soon yeah yeah it was like wow it's working you know like be positive in your life i know everybody talks about practicing positivity and stuff like that but that shit is real you put out positive energy and and you do positive and good things the universe rewards you and that's what i felt like was happening and it

that was short like i guess the universe felt for me at the time, it felt like this dude is genuine. He's real. Like, cause that's what I do. Anytime I say I'm gonna do something, if I'll tell you, I'm a man of my word. I'm not bullshitting, you know, bullshit people around when I tell people I'm gonna do something. So I guess the universe knew like, oh, he's hooked for life. He don't want to have anything to do with anything. Cause I tell myself I would never be arrested again I don't I don't care if I had to bust dishes for the rest of my life I have no I have no reason being up in here to me I didn't feel like I was better than these guys but I just felt like it's better things for me to do than to be up in here this is wasting away and what were the books

that you were reading I honestly couldn't even remember some of them, but just some basic stuff like the cliche, 48 Laws of Power and a lot of different, a lot of street books too, written by a lot of different authors. But honestly, sometimes I even look back on that. There are certain details I just choose not to remember. So I kind of shut off some things that I can't remember every single thing

with respect to books. I can't drill it down that that that in that detail at all because once i left rich i was like fuck yeah i hear you all right man so you're in this uh you're in this drug program yeah yeah being a good boy being a good boy staying away from troubles because i i got into i did get into a fight in minnesota um that put me in a hole for 40 days and 40 nights exactly yeah i got it wasn't because um listen only thing you can do in a joint is, uh, write letters home. No one responds. No one writes you back. Um,

and your mom, my mom's the only one I remember. My mom loved that girl. Uh, she was the only, my mom did everything she could to see me when she could, but I'm over a thousand miles away. It's a very expensive to get there.

And your sisters, you know, they, they wrote me when they can, but people are busy. You know, life is busy, man. And yeah, your younger brother's there, but what can you do? You know, he'll be all right.

Especially my older sister. Me and her, so much of life, she's like, he'll be all right. He know how to handle himself. He going to be okay. So, you know, it wasn't because they didn't love me, but, you know, they knew I was going to be all right. But, so, yeah, only thing you can because they didn't love me, but, you know, they think they knew I was going to be all right. But so, yeah, only thing you could do in this right letters work out and play spades or chess. And I was good at both, especially chess. So I end up playing chess with this guy.

And, you know, I was one of the top chess players in the joint, in my specific facility. And I would beat a lot of guys. And this one time, and we would bet either commissary stuff or we would bet push-ups. And push-ups, that means one clean C note. You got to do 100 nonstop. Nonstop, even if it's killing you, you got to do 100. It's 100 or nothing. And so this one specific bet like i i never

been a gambler i know i was never i never gambled in prison and even to this day i don't gamble i never believe in like gambling money or any type of monetary value stuff um but uh i did bet push ups so this one time he he finally beat me and it was right before count he made it me you know right before count and what count is is they they count you uh i want to say one two three four it counts you probably at least 10 times a day in the system to make sure no one escaped you know i don't care how much secure the prison is it could be the lowest to the highest they go around counting everybody so we had like one minute ago before count and i was like yo i give it he's like give me my push-ups like you know let's do this it was just me and him in in in this um in what we call the game room

area of the the uh specific building we were staying in facility and i was like dude you're crazy like they finna do count what are you talking about but and for count you got to be back at your you got to be in your cell you got to be in your cell and it was four of us and my every four minutes to every cell uh yeah bump beds two bump beds in the cell and four of us and if you fuck up that count you're going to the hole that's that's if they teach you something in prison you do never fuck up a co count they will put you in a hole and you ain't gonna like it because it's like three steel doors to get to you you know you don't want to be in a hole nobody wants me in a hole so he's like give me my push-ups and i was like dude i was like i'll give you pushes at the account what the fuck you talking about you crazy the

motherfucker just like that casual like you crazy the motherfucker casually and turn my turn my never turn your back on a man i don't care ever even even in life uh that's a first and i knew that but that was the first time i got caught slipping turn my back and next thing you know i woke up in the arms of my cellmate uh so the guy took a chair that we were sitting on and with all his might swung right from behind hit me in the back of my head and knocked me out. Really bad to the point to this day, I don't like people touching my head. Like, don't get close to my head.

Like, I just don't want nobody that close to like touching my head in an intimate way, if that makes sense. So I was on the floor. I ended up falling face down on the floor. My understanding after, you know, after I got information from the people that knew of it. And I'm just telling you what people told me because I obviously woke up in the arms of my cell. My cell, what we call people you show your cell with, is like, come on, you got this, man.

You got this. Stay up. Stay up. He was like rocking me, like, you know, because I was just bleeding of my mouth, because my jaw ended up hitting the inside of my cheeks, and it just started spreading everywhere. And I was just going in and out like an unconscious. He hit me that bad to the point that I had amnesia, like for the least. I had amnesia for like six hours. What pissed him off so much, though?

I mean, it doesn't sound like it was that big of a thing. You know, even to this day, I don't. Trigger, trigger, temper. I just think it to this day, I don't. Just trigger, trigger, temper. I just think it was something that I guess me casually just saying, you know. Dismissing. Dismissing him that easy, the littlest thing could trigger anybody. Because you don't know what that inmate is going through. Right.

His wife might not have wrote him back, his girlfriend, whoever. He might have kids out there and being raised by another man. People are under different stresses than you are. So that could have been a reason. He just probably had a bad day. You know, he probably had no money on his books, anything and any little thing that triggers somebody. You know, because there's been times I almost got triggered, you know, and that I really want to do seriously bodily harm to somebody. But, you know, also rule number two, you never put hands on another inmate because that's an assault charge and then that's added time to your sentence so you know and you don't want to

do that especially a short timer you know i mean you're like yeah i'm not fucking on my sentence i'm gonna be home like i ain't gonna be here and who knows he might have been in there longer like you end up with some guys that's doing at least 10 pieces minimum you know that might be caught up in a conspiracy charge a higher crime uh well a crime where you know they had an organization and they got rolled on you know whatever the case may be so i i don't know his personal situation what triggered him but it triggered him when i just dismissed him uh you know what i mean and and i end up waking up in my celly's arms and they end up you know COs came and they took me outside the

person they had it was that bad that they had to take me to a hospital like you know they they had me handcuffed and everything to in this ambulance thing and then they took me and so there I was laying up in the hospital and they was asking me inmate do you know who you are I don't like fucking inmate what are you talking about like I you know I finally came conscious and you know um and I didn't know who I was they was like you don't know who you are you know yeah i was like no no no and they just shut the door uh in my in my whatever uh hospital room that i was at um and all i know is i want to say like and i was just trying to make sense of why i had handcuffs to this bed what the fuck was going on like i just couldn't make sense and this kept you had total amnesia that you were even in prison like

you didn't know i didn't know what the fuck going on with me man like nothing and just like a movie uh after they asked me they kept integrity they kept asking me who did this to you and do you you know this so they left me alone because um i guess the medical providers was like you got to give them when some when somebody's going through this you got to give them time to kind of collect their thoughts. And all of a sudden stuff just started shooting at me, just like in a movie, like all these memories, just like boom, boom, boom, boom. Like literally, it was almost like you can hear bass in your ear, like boom, boom, boom, boom. And I just started yelling like, yo, like, give me all of these handcuffs. And they came in like, what's going on? What's going on?

And I was like, I know who I am. And they was like, you do? I was like, yeah. They asked me to read my inmate number. I gave them back my inmate number. Ended it up with 424. Your last three numbers are based on your city. What are you in here for?

Where are you from? Chicago, blah, blah, blah. Gave them all my information. And it's like, all right. They uncuffed me and then escorted me out. And the doctor was like yo yo can't be there like oh fuck that we're taking him back like took took me back to the to the joint because obviously i made a rapid improvement right at the end of that no fucks

given and i drove back in their van uh and they put me right in the hole yeah because when you go because it's an open investigation you know because there's an assault on another inmate and when they put me there they don't know if you started it they don't know if i started it they got to find out what's going on um so and they asked me who did it and i played dumb i was like i don't know i just i was playing chess with who i was like some guy i don't know i think he's a new guy i don't know his name you don't know his name i was like no i don't know his name he's like all right all right you're staying in this hole like you know until we find out what's going on they knew they just needed me to make them out and i wasn't gonna rat on him because i i had my own way of dealing with him that you

know i said i deal with this guy my own you know so what'd you do how did you deal with him so so what ended up happening once a week the investigating officer would come ask me questions but you know they had me in a hole. And listen, they tried to break me. All I had was a piece of paper and a pencil. I was dehydrated. I already lost weight when I went plant-based. So just so you guys know, when I went in there, I had what's called healthy weight on me.

I was like 250 pounds, man. And I dropped down to, you know uh all the way down to like 190 solid uh and when i went to the hole well at that time when i when i was went to the hole i was like 195 solid and then when i went to the hole i ended up getting down to like almost like 180 like i was just like dehydrated man like you know because how long were you in the hole 40 days exactly oh wow yeah 40 days exactly 40 nights and i wouldn't tell them uh you know it's three steel doors to get to me you know it was no window nothing like that man it was now i will tell you this about the hole at least the one i stayed it is like prison what you see in the movies yeah it's very depressing

it's it's something that they try to break your spirit and your soul. But yeah, I never told. And they end up releasing me. It was so funny. They released me exactly on my mother's birthday, July 12th. Released me on her birthday to General Pop, General Population. And again, they knew who did it. And they ended up just shipping him to a different prison. So that's why they put me back at General Population.

And so they knew who did it because there's cameras and stuff but they just wanted me to make them out right so you didn't make them out but you didn't get any extension on your no of course not because i mean they've seen this shit happen you know they knew what happened they knew what went down you know and i'm sure there are inmates in there running their mouths and i'm sure they told they told him exactly what happened but yeah to this day i don't know why i do did that but he ended up my understanding when he went to that other prison uh some chicago boys took care of him if that makes sense am i supposed to read into the fact that you might have had something to do with that i i i

had nothing to do with that all right man, man. The vague insinuations continue. Yeah. All right. Well, let's get to you getting out of prison. So how much longer and how long? You were in there for how long? I was in there for about close to three years. Three years.

Yeah, close to three years. So you get out, man. What's the plan? Man, I get out, and I'm in the halfway house. Trying to adjust to new life. I remember even being in— Back in Chicago or in Colorado? Yeah, back in Chicago. Yeah, yeah.

They give you a bus ticket to get home. They release you like you ain't shit and get home. You got 24 hours to report to. I think it was 48 hours at the time to report to the halfway house. And if you don't, they come in for you. The marshals will be looking for you. So and a halfway house is just, you know, another holding facility. So, yeah, I end up going back to Chicago.

I spent about six months in the halfway house. And that whole time you are required to look for jobs. You are required to pretty much take care of yourself look for jobs and you got to be a job hunting every day you got to report back you got curfew and all of that and i end up picking they help you with that i mean you got a felony charge right so job search go you know when that's the situation yeah they that's one thing fucked up about post-prison um they didn't help none of those guys including me with job placement it was all bullshit um and but again at least i had some skills to know what to look for you know i went on craigslist i went on regular websites applying

myself and stuff like that and um you know I ended up getting these little odd jobs here. And what started really booming was brand ambassador work. You know what I mean? That was new to that era. What year are we talking about? Are we talking about 2005, I want to say? Yeah, 2005, 2005, 2006. And I ended up taking up a job as a brand ambassador

because those companies didn't really, they're brand new companies. They're like startup companies, meaning like they're not finna spend money on background checks. We don't fuck about that. As long as you are aesthetically, you look good, you know, and you have some type of people skills. And I have both. I have good people relations skills. They took me on, you know, and paid me like $15 an hour. And the job was what?

Just take pictures of your clothes and stuff like that? No, I started doing it for Verizon. I was selling foams. I would go to different Best Buys and sell foams. Well, educate the consumer to new products and new foams and stuff. And Verizon hired that marketing company to send their brand ambassadors out just to educate consumers about the newest, hottest cell phone at the time and stuff like that. And I did that for about six months until finally what I've been waiting on because

as soon as I got home, the company that I worked for prior to going away, remember I told you I was doing healthcare? I was working for the hospital system. And I was 20 at the time impressing everybody at that hospital with my work that day, my productivity.

And I was just getting into medical collections and also doing some negotiations for work comp and stuff like that. So I was one of their most valued employees. I was really good at what I was doing to the point that I had to develop a bond and relationship pretty much with leadership, mid-management leadership. And when I came home, they were supportive. Man, they felt like i just it was

a fucked up situation um but they had my back yeah so it's pretty cool it took them six months to give me the green light though it took them six months because they had it had to go yeah they got a bureaucratic red tape oh yeah i had to go to the top dogs because they well there's a lot of liability man well if you if you just lose your shit one day and go insane like they're correct deep shit no doubt i. You know what I mean? It's a risk. Yeah, no doubt. But it's cool that they were able to extend themselves that way.

Yeah, they brought me back, and I never look back in terms of... So when you went to New York, it was the same company? Yeah, but this was only the second company from that hospital system. the hospital system. I stuck with them for about maybe about two years and then started getting more into managed care contracting. And I went to their sister company. I transferred over into a different company that's owned by the main parent entity that owned that hospital. And I started getting into what's called physician contracting, which is something I was fascinated by. And you're a lawyer, you know, this is, I was fascinated by how deals are made and put in place, even down to the language and stuff like that. I was really, really loving it,

you know, doing like physician contracting and provider relations. And I was just hungry. I always wanted to keep moving on. So I moved in with an organization and then my boss at the time, I mean, he rest in peace. He died maybe four or five years ago. He kind of took me on his wing and showed me everything he knew about contracting legal. He was a former lawyer. Took me on his wing.

First time I had a male mentor that was like, I got you. I'm gonna show you how to do this. That was legit. And he showed me everything he knew about health care, everything. He told me everything about everything as far as from all types of contracting to the laws, Medicare laws and all of that. And I used to sit with this dude every day. And he really, really grew me to be one hell of a contractor, one hell of a managed care executive. Yeah. It was a beautiful thing, man.

And so he took that risk on me. And so I ended up doing that. Um, but again, I was, I was hungry. I knew what I was doing. I was like, I gotta, I gotta make more money. I gotta do this. And, and keep in mind all of this was happening fast and I was still on house arrest and, and all of this. And I was like, I gotta get out of this way. And, and me and my lawyer ended up going back to the judge to show them how much progress I made

in the two years post-written. Like, look at him. He's making X amount of money a year, making good money. Back in college, back in school, he's a clean role model. He'd been coming home for two years, right after work, playing with his little dog.

That's how my dog came into my life. That's how me and her developed that ball. She came into my life right after prison within six months. And that's a whole different story. But we ended up getting that dropped. And as soon as they dropped, the rest of my time, this dude dropped. And he's like, yeah, you don't need to be on supervision anymore. And he told me at the end, he's like, I'm really proud of you, man.

I've seen something in you. I know you had it in good job keep it a good work from a federal judge that was amazing and so that allowed me to expand would apply myself out of state because I couldn't leave the state right and I applied for the current company I'm at. And they took me on. And, you know, they hired me. And, again, I've been now with this company, like, close to eight to nine years. And so, yeah, it's been a good. So you moved to New York in, like.

Well, I ended up moving to. So I was required to move to Nashville. I had to stay in Nashville for a year because the senior VP, my senior vice president that hired me, was like, well, you got to come down here. I need you to run the Nashville market. I need you to do the contracting for the health system in Tennessee and also parts of Georgia. So she's like, that's my only requirement. She's like, because she ran the East region. And she's like, I got nothing up there in the Midwest.

You know, I was like, all right. And I was one of the guys in Chicago anyway. I was tired of Chicago, man. I was like, all right. And I was one of the guys in Chicago anyway. I was tired of Chicago, man. It was like, my old roots, I didn't want to belong there anymore anyway. Because, you know, who the fuck, who knows what would happen, you know. Not that I care, but, you know, it's just that, I mean, I did care, but I just didn't want to be around old stuff. You know what I mean? So, I ended up moving it.

I packed my truck up, me and my dog, who you guys probably know, you see on Instagram. My baby. I was like, let's go, little one. dog, who you guys probably know, you see on Instagram, my baby. I was like, let's go, little one. She's like, let's go, Dad. And we packed, just me and her. And I packed my truck, got it running a U-Haul attached to the back of my truck. And we drove on down to Nashville, stayed in Nashville for a year. And we had a big acquisition at this company, the one I work for now. And it

was, it was a pretty intense acquisition where heads was rolling, you know, senior leadership was even rolling, even from the company that they acquired. It was a bad time. I didn't know if I was going to have a job. Smoke clear. Cause again, people that actually bought me in the workforce would say he's very reliable, very productive productive meaning they kept me on they didn't get rid of me and and obviously since i came into entry into that company entry level there's again more so when people with old salaries the fat cats anyway you know so my salary's still fresh and that's how they do as far as reduction in force um so that came and then my boss and the new boss was like yo i, I want you to run Atlanta

market. I want you to run the Georgia market. And I was like, oh, I thought you had never asked. Cause I wanted to get the hell out of Nashville was cool. You know, you've been in Nashville, right? Yeah. It's great. It's family oriented, but I'm, I'm 20 at that time.

I'm 20, uh, what? 29, 30. Yeah. Atlanta is a much better fit. Yeah. Much better fit for my lifestyle. I didn't hesitate. I was like, I'm out of here. I was out.

And again, I told my little one, let's pack. We moving again. And drove down to Atlanta. And I was in Atlanta for three years. Took on that market. And then some more opportunities. We had another acquisition. Same bosses, though.

But some other opportunities happened for me to take on the New York and New Jersey market with some new initiatives. We had another acquisition. Same bosses, though, but some other opportunities happen. And for me to take on a New York and New Jersey market with some new initiatives, because a lot of one thing about the East region, specifically in New York and a lot of you medical professionals out there on administration, administrative side. No, it's very hard to get providers to contract and to manage care organizations. They really want to remain independent. So it was a lot of money and opportunity up there for our company. So they deployed some of the best people up there and gave me that opportunity. So I went up there and I've been in New York now for about close to six

years. And, and that's, that's the speed summary of that, the healthcare career, right? Yeah, man.

Well, I mean, that's a great, that's an insane story, dude know i mean just the fact that you were able to piece it all back together you know and create this life from you know what could have easily just been you know a devastating situation that you never recovered from. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's a beautiful thing. So I want to take it back to, you know, kind of the, the, the spiritual journey of like purging yourself and cleansing yourself and like

trying to like get right with yourself and, and, you know, figure out how you were going to live your life. Right. Yeah. And how that's translated into, you know, kind of the things that you're doing now. I mean, that's a leap, right? Like, all right. So you go vegetarian in prison. Fine. You know, but how does it, you know, sort of gestate and mature into you becoming like an advocate? So that's perfect segue into that because talking about my four-leg daughter that we talked about. Yeah, I imprisoned. What's your dog's name? Soka. Soka, all right.

But you guys know her. She's named after a Caribbean dance. But you guys know her online as Scruff McFly. Does she have her own Instagram or something? Yeah, so if you guys out there follow her, Scruff McFly. All right. That's Dominic's daughter. So Scruff McFly.

But yeah, so in the joint, like I said, man, I studied with a lot of different people with a lot of different backgrounds. I learned a lot from even Italian mobsters to, like I said, I studied with different tribes and Native Americans. I had a part Native American in me too. So it was naturally for me to gravitate to them on some stuff. And I really found my way in that area and finding who I was and started to define what I believed in at the time while I was in there. Like I i said re-engineering my body i went from it was amazing because when i went plant-based i just couldn't i didn't know what was happening i was i thought i was withering away i was like what's going on this weight this weight dropping off me because like i said i was like 250 plus pounds weights well not not yet not yet not yet yeah like so for the first i guess month, I wasn't really hitting weights, but man, that first month I dropped like 20 pounds easy, man. It was crazy. I was like, I couldn't explain it. Like it was just, and I figured like, cause it's meat, you know, I wasn't a dumb dude. I mean, I figured it was meat and stuff like that, but I dropped all that weight and I just started doing pushups. I started mimicking what I was seeing. It's kind of like you go with the flow environment.

You participate in what most inmates do that are positive, that you can. And I started picking up the weights and started lifting weights and just re-engineering my body. And I got down to like 190 195 solid muscle man no supplements no drugs lifting heavier than i have ever lifted rice and beans and oatmeal rice and beans man that's that's why i laugh when people like oh he takes steroids or he takes supplements i'm like dude they don't know my story i i did this shit in prison you know i was in there we didn't have access to what some of y'all youngsters have out here. You know, we didn't have that enhancements and shit.

You know? No protein powders. We didn't have protein powder, dude, at all. I was just rice and beans all day, oatmeal all day long. And we was lifting heavy in that. Like I said, I was doing like 500-pound deadlifts. I was doing 315 like it was nothing. But a lot of the strength gains, though, and to this day, I tell people, people are like, how can I get strong?

Calisthenics, because I was doing push-ups, pull-ups, and dips. That builds your natural core up. That builds up your natural strength. And I would do easy, man, every day at least, man, anywhere between 100 to 200 of uh well in a combination if you had all three disciplines so about 300 repetitions of pulse push-ups and dips i mean was that surprising to you did you feel did you just presume like i'm gonna i'm gonna forego meat so i really didn't make the sacrifice some strength but that's what i feel like i need to do and i think yeah i think i'm a fuck about sacrificing anything because it wasn't about health for me but yeah i i didn't take the time

out to like what like my body's transformed but i was i was i was like i like it i've seen my six pack you know i was like shit you know it felt good but that wasn't my driving motive i i didn't i didn't put it all together and i just started started. The only thing we had assets to as far as health is concerned, like information like that. We will all share like subscriptions to men's health and men's fitness and stuff like that. So we'll read the latest articles and stuff like that. And we'd be like, oh, we can't wait till we get home. You know, do like these other guys. All you got to do is take a pill once a day and work out once a day because we was in there working like three times a day.

That's all we had to do. Like that's the only time we had on our hand was just hit the weight pile because the weight pile and the prisoners know that it keeps the tension down we had those old school plates you don't even see them nowadays we have 100 pound plates you don't see those these days old school plates yeah you know and we all not just me not just me it had nothing to do with your diet but 80 of the population was about that life like pull-ups push-ups and dips and hit heavy weights squats squats you know all day it was like it was like a training camp damn it you know like who can get stronger and everybody was courting each other like come on let's go so we had what's called a car and that means like you're jumping

in your car it can only be four men in the car Because you rest between sets with the four men So it's John Doe gets down you got the other three guys putting the weight up while he's getting ready to go on the boom Boom boom he gets no downtime. There's no down maximizing. It's my max limited amount of time Yeah, get in the yard or whatever. Yep. Exactly walk in the yard and then you'll walk the yard We have pull-ups everywhere. It was that dad. Like I said the yard Was just like what you see in the movies you walk around you talk yeah you pay good money for this man that what do you think it's like barry's boot camp days and all this shit yeah for sure man so by the time you

leave you're you're jacked up i'm jacked the fuck up when i leave like i like my mom was even like what they do to my baby? She could see my bone structure in my face. She preferred me to be a little bit more heavyset. And so, yeah, I was jacked up when I came home, man. Like, jacked. Like, jacked the fuck up. Like, I had worms all, as far as, like, vascular. You could see everything, muscles and everything.

I was pretty damn jacked. Even more jacked than what you guys see now. I was a little bit smaller though. You know, like I said, I was smaller, but jacked and strong as fuck. Um, and it was because of plants. But I, again, at that time I didn't know, I didn't know, but thinking back on it now, yeah, I got strong as hell in there. So I came home just like Malcolm X. I was kind of bitter. I was kind of like just bitter at the world. I remember hearing rap music play at the side of a car as I was being escorted from the the halfway house to we sometimes would go like on like a group ride to drop us off in the area to look for jobs, stuff like that.

But I remember hearing rap music and I was just like, cut the, cut that off. Like everything from even rap, anything negative. I was like, just want to run away from it. Like I didn't want to hear the rap music.

I didn't want to see some dumb ass young guy that used to be like me, hat cocked to the left. And I just looked at I kind of just had a bitter taste in my mouth about society. I was angry at the world for what I came back to that I never seen because I was part of that ignorance, you know. And and also I was kind of bitter at the fact that I only had a certain amount of time that I can look for a job. And then I finally got my job back in healthcare. And I only had a certain amount of time. I was required to go straight to work and come straight home.

They checked my vocal cords all throughout the night, like random times. They would call my phone. I was required to have a phone in my place. And they would check it. And I had to repeat back certain things. That's how they know that that's you there. Oh, so it's not somebody trying to pretend like it's you. You can't.

You have your voice imprint or whatever. Exactly. You got a voice imprint. So I had all this time on my hands just sitting at home. We didn't have Netflix and chill then. We didn't have Netflix and chill. We didn't have online dating. We didn't have social media.

We didn't have none of that. You can get into to occupy your time, nothing, you know, but TV. And I had this big ass empty apartment to myself. I had a three bedroom apartment on the West side of Chicago. And so my mom just got back from, she ended up remarrying her husband who she's with today. She ended up getting married to this guy, great guy too. He's a really good, great guy. And they went to St. Thomas Island. They go there once a year. And she went there to visit with him. And this little ass, if you guys remember the movie Gremlins, this little furball that looked like gizmo was just scratching at my mom's feet. And I'm going to go on record and tell you, my mom is not an animal lover. She's not about that life. She's the least person you would want

to leave your cat and dog with. And so, but this little gizmo looking thing was scratching her and her feet and she just fell in love like big eyes it was like something out of pixel art movie looking up at her like take me home take me home and so she fought with customs and paid a nice little healthy fine to get her back over into the states and when they got back to chicago her husband had three chihuahuas and you know chihuahuas by nature most of them are kind of evil they're not the easiest especially they get older they start nipping at you yeah they nip at you they're a different breed you And so here's this little gizmo-looking puppy hanging out with Stripe and them, the bad gremlins. And my mom wanted to keep gizmo in the bed with her, but her husband was like, no, she needs to be down there with her brothers and sister.

She is not privileged. They will fight to the point that they will really have a serious fight. Because my mom, this is like my mom's little, her baby, this little ass puppy, Gizmo there. So I told my mom, she told me about the problem. I was like, yo, just bring her to me. I didn't even see her yet. Bring her to me. I didn't even know what I was giving myself to.

I just said, bring her to me. I got nothing but time on my hand. And keep in mind, I am normally a big dog person. I had German Shepherds growing up, pit bulls, you name it. And keep in mind, I am normally a big doll person. I had German Shepherds growing up, Pit Bulls, you name it. And she shows up at my door and this little bitty fur ball rolls out. As soon as I lock eyes, it was just like, I'm not even kidding you.

It was like a cartoon movie. Like, we just felt like, and she just ran up to me like this little, sides of my hand, I picked up and gave her that look like, it's just like Beauty and the beast this big ass dude looking at this little innocent little doll that's looking like are you gonna be my daddy somebody say nobody wants me around and uh and i fell in love with her man like i even my mom would tell you to this day she is what got me to love again got me to naturally look at the world totally different my mom didn't see me smile like that since i've been home i smiled when i seen her and i bonded with her over the last two years you know when i was on supervision it was just me and her

no women around like that nothing just me and that little furball that you guys know. And that was the, you know, that was what you needed to take the edge off the bitterness. Yeah, man. And start to reframe how you're looking at the world. Yeah, because it's not like I had drugs to dive into. I didn't ever play video games. I just had so much time on my hands. I couldn't even go to the gym, Rich.

Three-bedroom apartment, though. Yeah, well, this is in the hood, though. I was in the hood. I wasn't in some plush-ass place. Like, yeah place like yeah three bedroom apartment i was able to afford with my salary for sure um and so yeah man i i had enough time on here all i could do is just do again more calisthenics and working out just do what i know and developed this bond with this little fur baby who was my heart and i started looking at her differently and just like wow you know like why people eating animals like you know and I just made that connection like if I can keep this little one under

me and and the amount of love I have for her I feel like people really need to understand like these beings are intelligent and they need somebody to talk and speak up for them and that was like really my intro into activism you know spending that two years was like you know my way of really learning a spiritual side and really connecting to an animal my bond to this day anybody that knows me in my personal life would tell you that my dog even comes before, oh, my mom doesn't hear this, my mother.

Like, because she really, she's a very important chapter in my life. I love her to death. And she, you know, like the old saying goes, dogs love you when you're down, depressed and all like that. But she was all I had at the work, before work.

Eight hours to track her from the 24 hours. That's all she had. So yeah, that was my intro into really reconnecting with the world and start to really, I need to talk about these animals a bit more. Well, it goes back to what you mentioned at the outset, like this sense from a very early age that you didn't like seeing a bully, right? Yeah. And you always wanted to stick up for somebody who is being taken advantage of.

And, you know, it's an easy leap to animal rights and animal activism when you see animals that are being abused and don't have somebody who can. I mean, it's a form of bullying, right? Correct. That's what it's what it is sort of like people are taking advantage of them for their own you know reason and rationale and we have a whole battery of arguments to sort of back that up but you know that that pushed your button right it's the same button yeah you know yeah for sure for sure and i just want to be her protector and i i feel like i just feel like I always been like a natural protector and that it's funny like I say how karma works this is like my tools I needed to be who I am who you guys know is today you know like be this big voice for the community yeah so how does that start to you know work its way into like what you're actually doing yeah so you know, like I said, naturally for me, since I think since I everything that happened to me in prison and leading up to everything, every thing that happens to animals, animal agriculture, only thing that didn't happen to me was I was not destroyed or raped.

or raped you know i mean i to this day still alive very well alive and healthy but i went through a big percentage of things that they go through um you know even including fighting with who you cohabit your area with and stuff like that and and and you know so i i think for me when i made that when i made that connection with my little one a lot of that came into play too as well. And that's why I'm passionate about speaking about what these little ones going out there through. And so when Instagram started about five years ago, Instagram been out about five, six years, a buddy of mine was like, yeah, you should get on Instagram, this new app. That's pretty cool. And, um, I was like, yeah, I think I should should get on instagram like i didn't want to do it at first you know because i'm originally from the streets but he was like just do it man just get on there

it's pretty cool you know i honestly don't know what i was thinking about getting on there but i did it and i just seen people talk about what was on him i I seen, I connected with, I seen accounts that was pretty much speaking. A lot of it was mainly showboat type of people and, and, and photos and vein stuff. And, and, but I seen some other accounts where people was just speaking their thoughts. And so those are two different users. You have users out there really trying to promote product and be vain about it. And you have the users that was really trying to push an agenda. I went right off the bat pushing my agenda. Like, I mean, I'm not a bad looking guy, so I would post different selfies and stuff like

that, you know, uh, you know, but sometimes you got to get their attention. And I, and I felt like I had an, again, I was pretty good. Obviously that's why I had to go away. You got like 160,000 now, right? Like you got a huge account. Yeah. Yeah. You got a huge account. Yeah, yeah. So I think, and so what happened with that, it organically grew because I came in a door talking about animal rights.

And that's, when I came out, when Instagram came out like five, six years ago, I was vegan already. So I've been vegan for six and prior to that vegetarian for 10, so like 16 years. So, and then i already made i already studied more about what the fuck was really going on post-prison i was like shit you know somebody gotta talk about this and so i started talking about it and also showing what i can do physically too i was like the opposite of you and i think that's when you started getting traction people was like yo rich rose is a great guy and you you are a great guy. Don't get me wrong. But I take a chill backdoor approach.

And you're kicking in the front door. Exactly. It was the opposite. When you started taking off, I remember reading an article about you. And I forgot what magazine it was. But you was taking off at the same time really heavily. And I was like the opposite of you. You know what I mean?

I didn't even get into endurance yet. I was just this guy smashing weights. I'm a man of color. Uh, I was a big dude and speaking passionately about what I felt was important to me. Um, and, and, and so I think that part of the community that you and I belong to can appreciate that because they're not used to that. Normally when you think of a vegan man, you think of a middle-aged guy an endurance athlete guy i mean that's just a cliche out there you think of that uh or or someone that's well off and i wasn't i was totally different i was everything that you would think a vegan man was and speaking out about it and that's how organically my online um platform grew people i think it was fresh um people love fresh here's this guy he's he's super handsome african american dude he's jack he's all jacked up he's like sporting huge guns and he's you know talking

about you know the weak and the and the abused yeah i mean like it's a i was like what you know yeah you remember like since day one like no guy not even not even the most of the even not even the white vegan males out there no one was really talking about it and and to this day you can't get away from and everyone's talking about it now like people do speak up more so i feel like i was definitely one of the original people to start that conversation and it's not i i did it just because i felt like it needed to be done. I was speaking. It was like a conviction. It was a way for me to speak my mind. And also I also show like, oh, you can look at it. You can lift weights. And I show how heavy I can lift. And you add that because at the end of the day, the most macho guy, the general user,

macho guy, the general user, the general public person can appreciate somebody, especially the men, that someone can do something very impressive physically. So I feel like that's how I got the guy's attention. I was like, this dude's slamming weights. And then the women was like, oh, he's very handsome. And he saw my animals. I had all these different pillars going. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Win, win, win win and that's how my platform grew right it's interesting you know yeah for sure you if you're you know if you're a physical specimen and you can do things physically that other dudes can't or that other dudes aspire to do yeah then you have their attention for sure you know what i mean for sure and that's very different than like whatever's coming out of your mouth you know what i mean like exactly and it shouldn't be that way but that's just the reality you know what I mean? Exactly. And it shouldn't be that way,

but that's just the reality. You know what I mean? Right, right. Our friend, our mutual friend, Michelle, Dr. McMaggen, she always tell me like, Doms, just show them what you can do. Like just go back to that old Doms, like just show them and it'll do way more for the movement

because it's only so much education and activism. And there's a lot of people that can get up and parrot the information or the statistics or cite this research or whatever. But, like, your unique gift is you can carry that message in a package that, you know, most people don't have. You know what I mean? Yeah. And wish they could have. And it basically defies every stereotype about what you would imagine like a vegan dude.

Correct. Not only would look like, but what a vegan dude is capable of physically. Yeah. So it's, you know, it's upending that stereotype and providing kind of a new face on this idea that a lot of people have preconceived ideas about and stereotypical notions about who those people are. That's correct they are they think we all are skinny pill and weak but it's interesting that you know you're just trying to piece your life back together and like live well and like be good right and you're like i'm sure you're stoked that you got like a career path you know like yeah who would have thought like you

know you could that could have gone very different for you. So it's not like, oh, I'm going to quit my job and be a animal rights activist. This is like a little side thing you start that, you know, keeps you engaged on some level, I suppose, but not, not like, oh, this is going to be my life. Correct. You hit it right. Exactly. I wasn't trying to make it my life. It was just something that I was, I felt responsible. Somebody had to do it like i i didn't have no agenda like oh i'm gonna get out of corporate america and start a startup company

a couple startup companies and and and try to make money off this community that was not that was not on my mind my mind was just health care and try to hit it as hard as i can go high um or some way i honestly i if there if it was one point, I was just like, maybe I just resign in the future and open up my own consulting firm within healthcare and stuff like that. So I always had an entrepreneur on my head and also had that creative gene in me as well to do some other things. But never did I think I can tap into the vegan community and start some pretty cool, dope companies, uh, that, you know, does a lot for the communities. Because like I say, it was just all about health care and me just speaking my mind. Like it was no agenda.

It was just me and talking about animal rights and showing what I can do physically. That's it. Because I just honestly, genuinely, and I think people see that through my online person. I think you can see I'm a man of integrity. I'm an honest dude. And I think people, and that's another reason why people gravitated to me because i really want to see people change i really want to save as many animals as i can and i strongly feel like even in this lifetime before i expire and and go into some other type of energy uh that at least

50 percent more than 50 percent at least the american population would be either vegan or vegetarian i feel strongly about that that would be quite uh quite something be a big change from what's going on right now but thank god for social media that's why i mean yeah look what look at the impact you know you're having i'm sure you get crazy dms and emails all the time all the time yeah but it's you know with your health care background and everything you know about the machinations about how that works yeah i mean that's a that's a valuable skill set and knowledge set that i would think is also convertible into this movement when you look at you know how sick people are and all these chronic lifestyle ailments that are, you know, a function on some level of our over, you know, consumption of animal products, that there

would be a role for you to fit into that kind of like equation as well. Yeah, we could definitely talk about, we could definitely talk about the economic side of it, meaning, yeah, the cost to do open heart surgery or any type of surgery related to stuff that can be taken care of in preventive care and health um it's incredible what these insurance companies are paying for these patients uh and it already has a lot to do with your lifestyle individually you know what i mean and and their goal uh for you guys uh look what the health it just tapped on a smart. What the Health is one of the most impressive films I've seen.

In fact, it's to me better than it's like top three to me. But there's more dirt out there about this health care system, even more that I wish could be exploited, even down to the executive level, the hospital systems themselves and they're not out there really to save people like that one woman was quoted uh you know we make money off of this like you know it's surgery and that's true they want you to stay sick man you know they they do they want you to stay sick and it's sad and that's why i can no longer do it like it's something that i just can't agree with the policies in place and the demand and the requirements and the MBOs that they put placing on a lot of us in different positions, especially on the administration side. It's quite a thing when you give up animal products and then suddenly like not only are you still able to physically function, but you actually feel better. You're like, wait, what what like what is going on you know and then you just suddenly your whole worldview shifts you're like wait a minute you start to look at everything with a little more

critical eye like what's what's behind that like why am i being told this and that and i think that's been a big part of my journey because unlike you, like I did get into it for health reasons. And now, you know, some of the reasons that initially motivated you, those have become much more important to me. And those have taken center stage, like the compassion argument and the environmental argument, you know, these things are things I didn't care about when this journey started for me. And now I'm not only super interested in them, I'm passionate about, you know, being an advocate and an activist. And, and I didn't think, I didn't see that coming. Like I didn't think that was going to be like my deal. You know what I mean? And I don't, and I don't bust through the front door like you do. Like I have a different touch.

And I think it's important that we all have different styles and, and, and, you know, modes and means of communication because there's all different kinds of people out there and you know you you vibrate at a certain frequency and i've vibrated a different one and and that's cool man i agree good it's like you know what i mean i know it's like the justice league meets the avengers like the vegan community to me is like marvel crossing over to dc you got a lot of superheroes you got people that are making connections with people that i don't have access to or they wouldn't even look to and same thing there's people that i can talk to on my level that certain men or women just can't listen to me you know what i mean but they'll listen to you correct you know what i mean yeah um but i also think there's a lot of

there's a lot of dysfunction within the vegan community that we got to sort out you know what i mean we gotta we gotta get our house in order a little bit we do if we want to really move forward with our best foot you know what i mean yeah i agree i think you know the youtube community is a mess you know there's a lot of there's just a lot it's just it's about gossip and backstabbing people and yeah stuff that has nothing to do with the values and the sort of ideas that get people interested in this to begin with and that have the power to be so transformative in people's lives. I agree. The online communities from YouTube to Instagram is something very unique and it's a lot of

egos out there. And just listen, I don't have a youtube channel but i do know my community i do know what's happening i do know the big players i do know the big personalities and youtube for me and the good news is um i'm actually going to launch a channel this summer but um there are some good channels out there but you're right because of course there's good channels there's good channels but there's a lot of bad. And that's because, look, we can take it back to what I said at the beginning of this conversation. When you add money into any community, shit goes crazy.

And that's what's happening. There's a green rush out there. People are paying attention to our community. And these people are just trying to make money from YouTube or if they're on Instagram, trying to make money from their own product placement and stuff like that. from YouTube or if they're on Instagram, should I make money from their own product placement and stuff like that? So they're losing a lot of those core values that they might have,

the real reason that they originally signed up for or for the newbies that are just jumping on the bandwagon. You know what I mean? So that's the same thing that really divided and fucked up a lot of those original gains I talked about. When money comes into a place, it's a whole different human being you're dealing with.

I think it's the relationship to the money. I mean, look, you're leaving your career. Yeah. And you've got your, you know, crazies and weirdos garment line. Correct. And like, it's important that that be self-sustaining. Oh, agreed. Yeah.

That can fund your life and your advocacy. And I'm no different. You know, I monetize this podcast with ads. And I, you know, so it's like we all are in a you know in a barter in a relationship correct you know an economic relationship with the work that we do yeah and i'm not saying we can't be vegans and make money that's not what i'm saying i'm just saying some that situation has an impact on certain people like like you probably are responsible with and you're putting out great product you you and i both are putting out great product but again some people are jumping into that only for that reason you know

while not really serving uh to put anything value out there that's that can help improve our community or can help make that honorable thing twice about our lifestyle if that makes sense yeah yeah i get that i mean are you on the receiving end of a bunch of like haters and snark and stuff like that in what terms what do you like do you do people blast you like blow up your instagram with a bunch of bs that you have to deal with uh no i i don't i don't get that many haters i will say that so i mean instagram is pretty positive community it is a pretty i don't see a lot of that yeah you don't see a lot of that it's not like youtube yeah it's not like youtube but i feel like if i even had you. I don't see a lot of that. Yeah, you don't see a lot of that. It's not like YouTube. Yeah, it's not like YouTube, but I feel like if I even had YouTube, I don't think...

Listen, I... What you guys see online is how I am in person. And I stick to my own beliefs and I think some of those keyboard thugs and trolls, I think they wouldn't take it to me in that area.

Not now! Not after hearing the story you just told. Well, if they want to, then so be it. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm optimistic about this movement and I'm energized by it and I'm enthusiastic about it. And it's cool. Like you mentioned, What the Health. There's amazing documentaries coming out and

books and more and more events like the one that you came to, you know, LA to participate in. And, you know, the reach just continues to extend. And I think it's, you know, fairly established that this isn't, you know, like a trend that's just sort of blowing, you know, with the wind, like there's a lot of momentum and there's more and more people that are sick and tired of being, you know, lied to and pitched to and finessed into, you know, adopting this diet or that diet. And I think, you know, when you kind of parse out like what we're talking about and these values and ideas that are important to us, it's for real, man. You know, it's like, you know, whether you're talking about health, whether you, man. It's like whether you're talking about health,

whether you're talking about the environment, whether you're talking about living more sustainably and more compassionately, and beyond that, not to get too sort of out there on it, but it's a spiritual journey, dude. It is. And it is for me. And from what you're saying, it is for you. For sure.

There's something about when you change your behavior to conform to your values and you do that soul searching and you've kind of, you know, like you've gone to, like in certain respects, it's like you got to go low, man, to like rise up. And it's like you went low, dude. I had my version of that. And I don't mean to, I'm not going to compare it to yours. You know, it's nothing like that. But there's something beautiful about that, that allows you to really face yourself in a certain way and, and really, you know, confront harsh truths about how you're living and, and figure out like, who are you? And like, what do you stand for? And what you believe in what are your are your values and how alignment how much how in alignment are you you know in that gap between the actions that

you're taking the thoughts that you are entertaining the way that you interact with the people around you loved ones and strangers you know do those comport with that value system and if not what are you going to do about it yeah you know and when you when you make that decision and begin to clean house in that regard your life fucking changes straight up oh my god my life uh went from it's a 180 uh when i decided like i said when i got on my knees it was amazing everything just changed for me and this lifestyle that you guys see me involved in now i owe it all to and i tell people to this day it's not just more than what you eat it's just you're not you're doing your very damn best not to cause any type of harm and the universe you know huh ahimsa yeah yeah and the universe universe, energy will repay you more than you can imagine in so many ways, whether it be your physical health or your financial portfolio.

You get all these new and exciting ideas. I swear, you're right, Rich. It's a spiritual thing, too. This lifestyle has been the best thing to ever happen to me, for sure. best thing to ever happen to me for sure yeah so when you travel around and and you give talks and do panels like we did at NYU like what's the what's the core message that you're trying to get across to people like how are you connecting with well going forward I'm definitely going to start um this story not only only people in my inner circle and a few select few um know about that chapter in my life when I went through my darkest hour.

I always have talked about it. I appreciate you trusting me with this story. Oh, yeah, man. I think this is the best place to launch it. This is the best place to launch it. Because people, as you know, have been tagging you and me both, when are you going to get Doms on there? So I think this is like the coming out party about the origin story of what makes this

guy who he is. Why is he so passionate about this community? And so saying all that to say, I'm going to definitely have a different approach going forward with respect to me communicating people, communicating to people about this community. I'm definitely going to tell them more about my direct experience in the prison system. And, and, and then obviously we didn't cover everything about the prison system, but it's a

lot about that timeline that I think people can really learn from. And this goes to show, never judge a book by its cover. Because people wouldn't, you can look at me and people would never thought that I've been through what I've been through because i don't carry myself that way you got to evolve you got to grow you got to be better than you were yesterday and it was last week last month last year you know what i mean and to me that's what it's about you know just growing because if you did a podcast with me back in my teenage years i'd be probably talking street slang to you all through the podcast. Well, it would have been a very different conversation. It would have been a different conversation, but I was a different beast, man. I was a dude that was wearing platinum chains, white gold watches.

I was making money hand over fist, man. I was a different dude. I was a street dude. You know what I mean? And now I'm not. I'm not into that. Don't try me. But that's not the type of do i'm not trying to be the most macho let's do you know i mean who are who are who would you consider to be like mentors now like who are the people you're

looking up to or who do you who do you sort of look to for inspiration so i that's funny someone asked me that question before i, when I got to this community, we didn't have people like you and I didn't even know about you right away, but in general, I didn't have anybody I looked up to. I just did it because I felt like this was right. And to this day, I never, I just, I'm a different human being. So I never had any mentor. I have collaborators and people that I admire, like you. I admire you, for example.

I really admire some of the things you do. I admire people like Dr. McMacken, for example. I admire what Dr. Greger is doing with the data and the information. Sean Munson, what he did with Earthlings to show that side of it. Even Kip with What the Health. i think you guys that i just named are very important in this movement because you guys are putting out some home runs that people need to see and but other than that far as looking up to people uh like i said i admire people from afar but i never really looked into looked up to and that might have a lot to do with my childhood

because i never had that in there you know what i mean like that male mentor or female filter person you know so yeah i don't really have a male mentor no one's mentoring me i'm just out there the lone wolf the lone elephant walking walking the road and just collecting information and data and putting it out there when i can though if that makes sense so when dudes roll up on you as i'm sure they do and they're like come on man you're like eating me you're not telling anybody like how do you do that like that how's that work like where are you getting your pro like you get all the standard questions right like how do you handle that and manage that like how do you communicate with the average you know gym rat guy or whatever who's looking to who's looking for gains yeah yeah the funny thing about it they

don't believe me at first they i mean what they believe but they have that like they're in all like wow you're a vegan not even vegetarian but you're a vegan you know and just like when i walk in the gym i proudly and i tell people be proud of your community be proud of me that's why i walk in the gym with a eat what elephants eat shirt on and people don't give me the response that I heard other people might get. Some people would say to people that wear those shirts, peanuts or all that. That goes to show they level intelligence. But people that see me, for some reason,

they'll look at me, squint their eyes, and think. And most of the time, they'll be like, plants. I'm like, yeah, plants. You're vegan, vegetarian. Yeah. As fuck. And I tell them, and then we have a, they, they, they will stop my workout. I'm pressed for time already, but I can't, I don't, I don't, I did not complete work.

I could tell you, it's probably probably at least 100 situations where my workout was interrupted because of what i had on my chest people ask me about this lifestyle and i took the time to explain it and not complete my workout you can't you can't wear the shirt if you're not going to take the time you know what i mean because you if you're going to wear the shirt like you're saying like i need this is you know this is you're putting it out there that you want to have that you're 100 accurate and but i don't think like that i need, this is, you know, this is, you're putting it out there that you want to have that conversation. You're 100% accurate. But I don't think like that. I just have it on because, you know, it's not like I'm trying to have a conversation, but it's part of my wardrobe.

But even still, Rich, there have been times where I had like a Roka shirt on, you know, when Roka sent me some gear and stuff like that. I'll rock a shirt. In fact, one guy one time seen me tossing up. I was repping 315 on the bench. He was like, man, you fucking strong, man. It's your secret. How do you do it? And I tell him, like, plinths, man. You know, like, plinths.

Easy conversation right there because he just see how I'm a power. When you guys see me rep, I press that shit off my chest or my legs. Like I'm taking off with a red kit to go fly in space. Like I, for real, it's launch time, you know, like get that, get that heavy iron off me. Like, and that's just, that's from the prison, man. We used to just, that's my workout style, straight prison style for sure. For sure. And so, yeah, people come up to me asking me, how you doing, man?

You're incredible. I always start off like, I'm vegan, man. I owe it all to this diet. My recovery is insane. Listen, I don't go to the gym to try to look a certain way. I go to the gym because I need that outlet. I have so much energy. I need to bounce that physical energy somewhere into some type of box.

And it's the gym. And that's when, ironically, four or five years ago, about four years ago, I started picking up triathlons. I was like, the gym ain't nothing to me, man. I could toss weight all day, man. Like, I can master that. You know, I feel like I can hang. I can bang some heavy shit. But triathlons, no one ever said, let's play triathlons, man.

You can't master that shit. You can't. You know it, man. To your grave. Dude. And it's like you're steady chasing PRs. You're steady chasing trying to get better. I remember some of my first triathlons, I done had somebody, grandmother.

I'm struggling on that run. I last let let run right past me like come on young guy run right past me killed it and to me that's inspiring so so to actually go back a little bit to what you said what's inspiring to me shit like that to see that soccer mom okay i mean not the soccer mom to see that working mom or that working dad uh that also plays soccer mom soccer dad meaning soccer dad, meaning they got the kids, they got the nine to five or whether they be an entrepreneur or blue collar worker, lawyer, doctor, you name it. But they get out here on a weekend, do a sub 318 on a marathon

and they train it for that's bad. That's impressive. That's those are the type of people I do look up to because they're working professionals. They're not pro triathletes. I don't look up to the pro triathletes or the pro athletes, whether you're football and basketball, those guys have million dollar facilities, million dollar training teams and a million dollar payroll. They should be pretty, pretty impressive physically. But for that mom, that's a lawyer busting her ass and go through a three sub three 18 marathon. That woman needs it. She needs, she needs to be marathon what that woman needs she needs she needs to be paid i mean she she needs appraisal for real and i i look up to those people to to those working

professionals because i'm a working professional and i was i managed to squeeze him the little time i had to train and do those triathlons so i get it i know the struggle i've been there too but there are some very impressive people out there that do it working at 905. So yeah, that's why. Are you still trading for tries? Are you just hitting the gym? So right now this year I took off. I took off the latter part of last year too as well because going through this, when my startup company is getting so out of control and I had to manage that and get that pretty much under control. Meaning it's growing. It's growing really well. It's growing out of control. So I had to typically I would do 10 to 11 endurance races per year, which is a combination of marathons and triathlons.

But the latter part of the last year and the beginning part of it obviously i'm not you can rich is standing across from me right now and i'm not in triathlete shape i'm more like he probably think i'm pretty jacked up dude but i'm not in track like i get a little bit more slimmer when i'm in triathlon mode yeah it just tends to happen i still kind of i can still bang in the weights but i'm just have a different body uh then so yeah i'm only doing i'm probably going to do three or four races at the end of this summer i am i'm scheduled to do an ironman at the end of this um in this fall i'm gonna do georgia yeah i'm gonna do georgia it's a half though it's a 70.3 yeah i'm gonna do georgia but next year i'm gonna pick it up though because

i'll be able to have the time to do more yeah well people are gonna kill me if i don't if i don't uh ask you like what you eat i have a feeling to answer that yeah well people are gonna kill me if i don't if i don't uh ask you like what you eat i have a feeling to answer that question it's not gonna be it's not gonna be as sexy and as exciting as as you know maybe one might imagine yeah you know the million dollar question what i eat what do you eat so normally uh other than what elephants eat other than what elephants eat yeah so typically i am primary raw uh meaning you know from the months of april to may when i am in that endurance mode or aspiring to do endurance stuff especially training for me i find i found out and i learned my body recovers better It responds better to just juicing and blending raw smoothie fruits together.

I take what's a combination of mangoes, peaches, pineapples, and bananas and blend it in a Blendtec and make it this amazing smoothie. My body really thrives off of that stuff. Fruits. Primary fruits. Not vegetables. You know, I do my green smoothies every now and then. But fruits, man. Fruits is king for me in the way i produce physically um and and and you guys you're gonna laugh but because people know this uh watermelon man watermelon like

watermelon is king in my life man like even i i have a supplier now like that's how much watermelon i consume i got a direct supplier that even during the cold seasons of fucking new york during new york year winters i have a supplier that takes care of me and i buy uh from them uh through uh and they really good wholesaler or whatever yeah well they use their wholesale account to do it right and make sure it gets shipped up there to them to get to me but you're not you're not like fruitarian year-round uh no no like so yeah so during the winter i mean i would say in the winter time i go down probably maybe uh well in recent i have been i have been don't get me wrong i have been more primary fruitarian doing awareness. But in the last couple of years, I've been like more 50, 50.

Yeah, I do. And listen, I do enjoy a good meal and stuff like that. But when I'm trying to achieve something physically, my body, for me personally, just responds well. For endurance training specifically, being more of a juicer and a raw blending type of guy yeah and the question that's popping up in you know uh the typical gym rats mind right now is like so how to so when you're just when you're just doing free i'm in that mode what's that like when you're hitting the gym yeah so like i like i consume so so just to give you guys an idea, like let's say, you know, I'm training for triathlons or whatever, even at triathlons. I hydrate and consume primary fruit, raw blended fruits throughout the day.

And what that means is I do my prepping on Sundays and Wednesdays. Sometimes I do it the night before of a day. If I run out, I have mason jars lined up in my fridge. I consume anywhere between eight to 12 ounces every one to two hours. So I'll train in my fridge. I consume anywhere between eight to 12 ounces every one to two hours. So I'll train in the morning. This is how I get in my triathlon training in a 50 plus hour work week. Okay. You wake up five o'clock in the morning, you go train, uh, get ready to go to work, but I'm not fraternizing on lunch. I'm not going out to, uh, uh, you know, dick around doing lunch breaks and stuff like that. You know, the cheesecake factory. Yeah.

I'm not going to cheesecake factory. I'm not going to Cheesecake Factory. I'm not going to, you know, hang out with colleagues because I've been fueling throughout the morning on my mason jars. And I go train during my lunch hour. And that's typically, like, if I'm in triathlon mode, I'll do strength training during my lunch hours. And then when I get off of work, I hit it again because I'm fueling in the afternoon recovery with my fuel.

And my body just takes to it., eat that shit up, man. Like it's, it's the secret sauce fruit. Fruit is the secret sauce. Um, and so, yeah. And as far as the guys out there, the gym rats, they want to lift heavy. You got to lift heavy often. Okay. You're not, you can't expect to hit that body part once a week and think you're going to start hitting some, hitting some real gains. No, you got to hit it like once or twice, three times a week. Especially once you take on this diet, you're going to find yourself wanting to hit it more because your recovery, but I do, I'm not as sore as no much. You're not. Go hit it. Go hit the gym. Add some hemp seeds to your smoothies and stuff like that. Bananas is king too. Potassium in there.

Oh man, it's just amazing what you can do on that fruititarian body. You know what I mean? What about supplements? So supplements, I don't take supplements. Only thing I recommend people take because she's going to kill me if I don't mention it. Dr. McMack and me, I had a huge, huge,

and she's one of my best friends for you guys out there. I don't know. And she's not on the podcast. Yeah. She's a great, if you missed it, I'll put a link in the show notes to that. We had a great conversation. Yeah. She's a wonderful person. Wonderful person. She's one of my best friends. She's in what the health she is. I know I seen that. Yeah. She's amazing. Uh, but me and her will fight a box. She's like, you know, cause she not only takes up a minute, but she's like, Dom, you got to start taking B12s. Because once the damage is done, it's done. You know, you got to take B12.

You got to take B12. I'm like, no, no, I'm not taking B12. So I have started taking B12s. Have you done a blood panel to just see where you're working on everything? Everything's amazing. Everything's amazing. My doctor always just shakes his head. Like, I do a blood panel probably every six months.

He's just like, wow, fucking amazing, man. Iron, testosterone, vitamin D. That's amazing. All right. You know, one day we got to get somebody to, I would love for someone to do my blood panel and compare it to maybe the average carnivore or even the one that, one of those gym rat guys. Like, let's have somebody fund it.

It's amazing. It's off the hook, man. And going back back in terms of supplements listen everything has its place i get it it's convenient you know what i mean but for me the reason why i didn't really take into it uh and get into it uh is the fact that i don't know where these companies are sourcing their product okay you and i both know uh they source it from areas that are highly concentrated with metals, harmful other stuff that might do some long term damage to your body. So I'm not the formulator.

You know, I mean, you got to be really careful. You know, first of all, 99 percent of the stuff out there is not organic. Correct. And no one really talks about that. But like, OK, so it's not organic. correct and no one really talks about that but like okay so it's not organic and that's assuming that everything that you see on the nutrition panel is actually what's in there and you know there's a lot of fuckery at these labs yes where these products get made and you know i've i think that it's wise to not be so trustworthy of agree and to be really selective i think you know supplements

have their place look if you do a blood panel and you have a deficiency then you know you should probably supplement right for sure but they're to supplement your diet they're not to replace these nutrients these phytonutrients these micronutrients exactly nutrients right um but you got to be really careful about the companies that that you decide to patronize you know find organic like you got to find companies that you really trust that are just doing you know it's going to cost a little bit extra but you know it's it's worth it because otherwise you don't know what you're getting this stuff's the wild west and it's not regulated it's not uh this is this is what i think it's a multi-billion dollar company uh industry you know

it's not regulated. And you got to be careful because you can really hurt yourself in the long run. They could be selling you for, you know, fucking rat poison or something that's laced with some stuff. So for me, that's why I'm just like one of those guys. I got to know my product. You know, I got to know what's happening. And again, it serves its place. But if I haven't formulated, I don't trust. If I'm not the one in the lab or help and I've seen exactly where that source came from, I'm not really about that.

And for me, I don't need it. You know what I mean? But again, it has its place, meaning I'm not trying to demonize supplements at all. I think like that and mock meats they have their place you know there are certain people that like to taste a piece of mock meat that tastes like chicken it serves it serves its place it's probably going through their transition phase whatever the case may be we should not be dissing some of these products you know there's levels to this community and also your health you know and as you grow as an individual of this community, you can make those improvements where you need to. Yeah. Everybody has a different entry point,

you know what I mean? And if you're going to tell somebody who's just starting out that they can't do this and they can't do that and you're too restrictive, they're going to be like, dude, you know, I can't do that. And they won't even begin. But if you just give them a welcome mat and say, yeah, try that, try this, trust that person to go on their own journey. You know, you didn't do it perfect when you began. Why are you putting that on somebody else? You know what I mean? Allow them to have their process. But I think it's really interesting that you, you know, your blood markers are all great and you're not supplementing.

You know, what I get a lot of is like, well, you can do it, but you're some kind of weird outlier. You know, it's like, you know, you're the exception. Genetics, right? The genetics one? Yeah, like that's not a normal thing. You know what I mean? And like, so it's like, thank God there's another guy who's like, blood work is good and he's doing it. You know what I mean?

Like, I think it helps rebut that argument a little bit. Because I think when you're doing that and it doesn't fit the paradigm that somebody is expecting, then they have to find a mental rationale so that they can make it fit. And it works with their worldview. So it's like, okay, well, you're an outlier. You're the exception to the rule. But this is not the way it is for everybody else. And that's just lies. You're right.

exception to the rule but this is not the way it is for everybody else and that's just lies you're right meaning like people there are human beings meaning uh they they have to find something wrong or have a rationale for not wanting to make an agreement with something that they may not have discovered you know or be a part of that solution and stuff so there are going to be for those people out there um you probably had these discussions and debates with people online there's just certain people that don't want to change man you know like or they they want to wait till they discover like oh that aha moment you know what i mean not everyone wants to hear or see some amazing lifestyle um if they didn't stumble across it itself i run into a lot of those too it's just

that's just human beings man you know they didn't discover it well we got to wrap this dude we've been going for two hours oh 15 minutes you know like i gotta lock it down but no doubt like leave us with leave us with some truths man like if somebody's listening to this they're like holy shit i had no idea like you know that was dom's story yeah um you know that guy spoke to me you know i'm i'm hearing him in a way like i just haven't been able to connect with somebody else like i'm ready i'm ready to make some changes like dietary emotional whatever it is professional like what's the you know what's the first step like what do you say to that person i would say uh really take a look at why you're doing it.

You know, obviously, if you're doing it for ethical reasons, it's a switch. If you feel like destroying another life form is not for you, you should be able to do that overnight, man. Just do it. Like I mean, because you already made that connection. If you're doing it for the environment and doing it for health reasons, you can look in other areas and sources. You can read great books out there. You and your family have a great cookbook out there and stuff like that. You can communicate with other people in this community. There are people online and organizations and entities, nonprofit and for profit online that are willing to really help you out. and for profit online that are willing to really help you out. But one thing I have discovered in recent years that no matter how much delegation I do to these other areas, people come back to me

and say, no, they want to know my way, what Dom's does. So for that, that's why I am leaving corporate America. So I can be more accessible to you guys and I can really show you guys how I live my lifestyle. And you can make I can really show you guys how I live my lifestyle and you can make that connection directly by just reaching out to me. Beautiful, man. I'm excited for this next chapter for you. I feel like, you know, first of all, super cool that you came here to like tell this story for the first time and like make it public. And I think that that's going to be not only like a cathartic thing for you to like just be open about that but your wings are going to spread dude because now like it's like on

whatever level you've been carrying that around you know i'm sure people who love you know the story but like to go into situations and know like people don't really know you you know what i mean there's a barrier there's still there's a distance you know what I mean you're kind of putting your arm up and holding people back and now you're going to be able to just welcome them and I think it's going

to blow your shit up and I just want to say thank you so much for having me man if I had to do it anywhere else I wouldn't I wanted to put it

out on here man because you have a great platform I have a lot of respect for you and what you have done for this community man so I really

appreciate you even having me on the podcast. So thanks a lot. Feelings mutual, man. I appreciate you coming here and being so open and sharing your story. It's powerful and it's really inspiring. So I'm excited for you, man. So Crazies and Weirdos.

Yeah. It's blowing up, dude. You got people working on the West Coast. I got people on the West Coast. We're going to launch a Canadian team. And just so you guys know, if you don't know about Craz know about crazy as it was you probably should it's the shirt that's infamous with eat well if it's eat we have cw basis coming out where we have a basic line without graphics just shirts if you want that casual black shirt guess what it's made from organic or or recycled

materials or you want that color shirt that you want to just wear it be white green you name it natural colors and it's all coming from recycle and organic materials we're developing shoes now we're developing coats so for me crazies and weirdos i want us to be uh the gap version for vegans you know so that's where where i'm trying to take this company and i appreciate everybody out there who has been supporting us and continue just to eat what elephants eat, man. That's beautiful, man. Yeah. I got the Eat What Elephants Eat shirt.

I also had the carb shirt that you gave me like a year ago. Yeah. And I've worn that out in the world. And that gets like a huge response from people. I spilled like a ton of beet juice on it, though. And I had to get rid of it. So I got to get another one of those. We don't have those left.

Oh, you don't sell that one anymore we haven't sold in a while man but we're gonna i love that we're gonna yeah we're gonna resell those starting off on this winter man we just got so much going on we got a lot of new exciting stuff for you guys the crazies and weirdos i'm really happy with with that company man like it's crazy what it's done you gotta solve this riddle for me man what up? And you're wearing the shirt right now. Clark Kent was vegan. I'm still like, I don't get it. I don't understand.

Clark Kent was vegan. What are you trying to say here, man? Yeah, man. Superman was vegan. I mean, I can't say is vegan put into that time frame in 2006, 2007. So he went to Africa where he was going through his discovery, discovering who he was. He was flying around with horses and wrestling, well, zebras rather, and wrestling with lions and shit. And he sent the email home to his mom explaining the story that, you know,

he's making this connection with animals. I mean, he could see the aura around him, you know, like, and he's like, I know this is probably hard for you to understand me being growing up a farm boy as your son and your son being a vegetarian. He said that. And at that time, you and I both know vegetarian was used interchangeably with vegan. Sometimes people used it.

It just sounds vegetarian sounds more friendly than vegan at that time. So I had no doubt in my mind that that author, if this was like 2016 or the story, he would have said vegan. You know what I mean? It was just like it was a vegetarian was good enough. And if you if you're a book nerd or a comic book nerd, everyone knows Superman can't even kill his own enemies. He won't.

He won't destroy anything. So logically, and that's, that's two arguing points. The third point is he's an alien. Okay. And people think vegans think they are aliens and think they're from outer space and he get his energy from the sun only. That's the third thing. And the fourth thing, we are our own authors. Okay. So we, we rewrote the story um to go in line with what i just discussed those arguing points and for that reason clark kent was vegan you know there you have it ladies the canon from dc comics straight up right you heard it from from dom's dominic thompson man yeah man you're a bad dude oh you are too man appreciate it thanks for uh thanks for doing the show thanks for having me man thank you everybody out there for listening too thank you crazies and weirdos.com uh on instagram domz thompson domz thompson um um and that's it's no it's no

middle initial that's just people refer to me as doms um or dom or dominic thompson but it's doms at thompson on instagram dominic thompson was taken so i just had to do doms yeah yeah and you're blowing things up there man so everybody go on instagram follow him speaking the mad truths yeah you too brother right on dude how do you feel feel good man i think we did it i think we did man yeah man all right cool word all right let's go let's go eat some fruit let's do it peace peace plants pretty intense right hope you guys enjoyed that if you were impacted by today's conversation please do me a favor track doms down online give him a shout out let him know your thoughts about the episode uh perhaps he motivated you to try this whole vegan thing out or maybe you tried it once but couldn't make it stick eight out of ten people lapse in their attempt to go plant-based and that happens

not because they don't feel great not because it ain't working for them but because they don't have the tools and the toolbox and the knowledge and the support to make it stick and so that's why we created the plant power meal planner Planner. Basically, access at your fingertips to thousands of plant-based recipes, thousands, unlimited meal plans, grocery lists, everything's totally personalized and customized based on your very specific goals and food preferences and allergies and time constraints. We have amazing customer support from a team of experts. We even have grocery delivery in 22 metropolitan areas via Instacart. Really proud of this program.

It essentially solves that problem of convenience and accessibility and confusion that trip up all too many people. So I can't say enough good things about the meal planner. I really suggest you check it out. If you're struggling with how to get more plants into your daily routine, you can find it at meals.richroll.com or click on meal planner on my website. If you'd like to support this show and my work, share it with your friends on social media, leave a review on Apple podcasts, subscribe on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast content. We're also on Google Play. We're on SoundCloud, basically anywhere where you enjoy podcasts, you can find this show. Also, I want to thank everybody who has contributed to my work via Patreon. Financially,

that means a lot to me. Thank you very much. Would you like to receive a free short weekly email from me? I send one out every Thursday. It's called roll call. Basically five or six things I stumbled across over the course of the week. Some articles I read, a video I watched, a documentary I watched, a podcast I listened to, a new product I'm enjoying. No spam, just useful, informative, inspiring stuff. No affiliate links. I'm not trying to make any money, just a way for me to communicate with you guys more directly. So if that sounds cool to you, if you're into it, subscribe on my website by just entering your email address and any of those little capture windows. If you're interested in my training and preparation for the upcoming Otillo, Otillo swim run world championships, I've been sharing daily inspiration and stories

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because I'm headed to Ireland and I'm going to try to be off grid as much as possible. So I trust that you're having an amazing week. I hope this episode inspired you. I never take your attention for granted. I appreciate it very, very much. It inspires me to come back week after week and try to do better and give more. So until then, be well, love wide, love deep. see you soon peace plants Thank you.