The Rich Roll Podcast - [EXPLICIT] The Post-Punk Algonquin Round Table: Peace, Plants & PMA

Episode Date: July 14, 2014

Oh snap — s*$%t is about to get real! Back by popular demand, I am overjoyed to bring together two of my most popular repeat guests on the RRP — John Joseph and Mishka Shubaly– for an epic threesome. Call it my Post-Punk Algonquin Round Table: uncensored ruminations NYC style on sobriety, writing books, eating plants, running ridiculously long distances, expanding consciousness, walking a spiritual path and PMA — John's personal mantra for positive mental attitude. I cannot overstate how much I love these guys. And on the mic they never disappoint. As you might suspect, the Cro-Mags' frontman aka Bloodclot returns to do what he does best — incite, provoke, educate and entertain. Straight talk directly from the streets of the Lower East Side with one singular, driving purpose: getting people to “wake the f&*k up”, expand consciousness and take control of our lives. Not to be outdone, Mishka fills the co-host role today and holds his own with JJ (not easy), rounding out the conversation with his always humorous, astute observations on the creative, athletic, sober life. But the predominant subject of today's show revolves around the release of John's new book — a completely updated and rewritten version of his previously self-published cult hit: Meat Is For Pussies: A How To Guide For Dudes Who Want to Get Fit, Kick Ass and Take Names* If you're a long-time listener to the show, my boys need no introduction. If you're new and unfamiliar with these phenomenons, I urge you to check out my earlier introductory posts and tune into their multiple previous appearances (hyperlinks to previous shows in the below Notes). As for JJ, suffice it to say the guy is a true American original. Lower East Side thief, abuse survivor, drug dealer & brawling gutter rat reborn as spiritual warrior. CBGB Street Poet. Punk-ass Robin Hood. Plantpowered Ironman. Spiritual evangelist. A life story so astounding, I can only describe it like this: “Take a little Charles Bukowski, add some Hugh Selby, Jr., throw in a little Jerry Stahl and finish it off with a light dusting of Paramahansa Yogananda. Then toss them all in a Martin Scorcese movie, douse the whole thing in kerosene and light it on fire. That is John Joseph.” But John is also one of the most spiritual, giving cats I have ever met. The guy who will always engage a stranger on the street; and literally move mountains to help a less fortunate soul in need — and never ask for anything in return. A the end of the day, all you really need to know about John is condensed into this little gem that recently appeared on Vice.com– the most entertaining “how to make a green smoothie” video of all time: Meditation; service; sobriety; GMO's; the “V” word; the nutritional plight of the everyman; balancing life as both an athlete and creative person; and what it means to truly be a man — these are the topics of the day.  And yes, we address head-on the heated controversy swirling around the title of John's new book. My opinion? This is a great book. It's not written for the converted. It's written for the guy who wouldn't pick up VegNews Magazine if it was the only thing left on the entire planet to read.

Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. My name is Rich Roll. And this of course, is the Rich Roll podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for spreading the word for for telling a friend, for sharing it on social media and Instagram and the like. I love that stuff. And thank you, of course, for using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for your Amazon purchases. All of those things are helping us out.

It's helping us spread the plant power message, trying to get a healthy, inspiring, positive message. As John Joseph, today's guest says, PMA, positive mental attitude out to as many people as possible. So thank you so much. So I just got back from New York City. I love that place. I had such a great trip, four or five days there. I banged out a whole bunch of really cool podcast interviews, which of course today is one of. I didn't want to waste any time getting this one up because I know how popular John and Mishka are. Both of them together are two of my most popular guests. But anyway, before I get into that,

I also, the real reason that I went to the city was to be able to support John Joseph at the book release party for the release of his new book, which came out earlier this week called Meat is for Pussies. And it's a controversial title for sure. And it's polarizing. And we're going to talk about that today on the podcast. We're going to hear John's perspective on the whole thing. It stirred up quite a debate online in various Facebook pages and comment sections and the like, and including the comment sections on Amazon where his book is posted. So we're going to talk about that. We're going to address it head on. But really, I love John. And if you are a longtime listener of the show, he's been on twice already, episode 41 and 66, if you want to go back and haven't heard those interviews. And that's where he goes into his background in depth. We're not going to

do that so much today. So if he's new to you, you might want to go back and listen to those to get the full picture of what this guy is all about. He's an incredible human being. He's a survivor. He is a street poet of sorts. He's a punk rock icon. He's the front man for a band called the Cro-Mags, which was an iconic punk band in New York City in the early 80s. He's born and bred on the mean streets of New York and the Lower East Side. And he's the most tried and true authentic human being quite possibly that I've ever met in my life. But more than that, behind kind of his tough guy exterior and all the labels and the accolades, he is an incredibly sensitive guy with a huge heart. This is a guy who will literally move

mountains privately to help someone in need and a guy who never asked for anything in return. And he's an incredibly spiritual cat, uh, who is very conscious at his deepest level that none of this is about him, the book, whatever the success is banned, all of that. Uh, it's really not about him or his ego. It's about his devotion, uh, to a higher purpose. It's about his dedication to service and helping others. And that's what his book is all about behind kind of the humor and the brashness. He really does want to help people. And he has a rare gift for being able to connect with a population of people that, you know, maybe a more kind of highbrow literary approach would never connect with. So you know, maybe a more kind of highbrow literary approach would never connect with. So his book is really for, you know, the guy who wouldn't pick up Veggie News Magazine if it was literally the

last thing to read on planet Earth. But John can connect with that kind of person. And that's why his gift is a book. And that's why I have zero doubt that it is going to go on to transform the lives of countless thousands. I love John and I love Mishka. If Mishka is new to you as well, he's been on the podcast twice and is also an ultra runner. He's also like John and myself, an author. He's the author of a couple Kindle bestselling singles. The one he's most noted for is called the long run which he talks about sobriety and ultra running it's a great easy read so you should check that out he's got a new kindle single coming out he's got a book deal and he's also a musician with an album coming out and he's going to be opening for uh doug stanhope for a couple dates in new york

city so i thought it would be really fun to get the three of us together because I've done individual podcasts with these guys, but we've never done it all in one room, the three of us. And I thought it would make for kind of a groovy post-punk Algonquin round table of sorts. And we have so many commonalities, points of interest, everything from endurance sports to being authors, to being on a spiritual path towards growth and health and diet and nutrition. Of course, John is passionate about plant-based nutrition and personal spiritual evolution. So we talk all about all of that stuff. But really what I wanted to do is kind of introduce to you guys his new book and to kind of urge you to pick it up. I was honored to write the foreword to it. And I love this book.

It's really easy to read. And it's written in John's kind of, you know, humorous acerbic style. And so it's very different from any other kind of book you're ever going to read about plant-based nutrition or diet or health. But it's a fun read. It's really fun. And John is taking a little bit of heat right now online. It's heat that he embraces for the title, which of course is polarizing. So I guess my kind of

final plea to you guys is if you have enjoyed John's message on the podcast previously, if you dig where he's coming from and the message that he's trying to put out, if you dig where he's coming from and the message that he's trying to put out and you pick up the book and enjoy it, do John a favor. John would never probably ask, but I'm asking on his behalf to go onto Amazon where the book is and leave a review there. There's some people that are stirring up some heat there over the title. They haven't even read the book and they're trying to dress him down on a book that they haven't taken the time to even crack the page and they don't know who John is or what his true mission is. And, you know, I just want to support what he's trying to do because I've seen up close and

personal firsthand how many people this guy helps. This is a guy who wakes up every day and his first thought in his mind is, who can I help today and how can I be of service? And when I introduced him at his book party in New York the other night, we were surrounded by so many people whose lives that this guy has touched over the years. There was even a guy from a foster home that he had helped who is just about to graduate college. So it's kind of people like that. These are the people that John is impacting and these are the people that need help and these are the people that he's trying to help. So let's help him help those people. All right. So a final note before we get into the interview, and if you're a longtime listener to the show, you already know it, but this episode is explicit.

You cannot edit John, nor would you want to. The F-bombs are flying around like crazy. And so if that's just not your thing, or it rubs you the wrong way, then maybe this isn't the best episode for you. But it's definitely NSFW, not safe for work. And you might want to not play it while the kids are around or just pop your earphones in instead. But try to listen through in between the F-bombs and hear John for where he's coming from. And without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. Thanks so much for tuning in. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time.

It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide,

to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery.

To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has

been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you.

I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. I could tell they were two, like, off-duty cops. You could just tell.

But they were, like like they came up to us in Rockaway right and they were like pulling up and they were like saying some shit and like and then I thought

they were asking for directions they were like yo was that you guys back on fucking Sunrise Highway fuck it they couldn't believe

that you had ridden that far they were like holy fucking shit dude You guys fucking hauled Who are you riding with? Sean, he's fucking dope He's the buyer at

Paragon But he like, he was a pro Pro cyclist Yeah, pro mountain biker dude Like top, finishing How come you never go across the gw bridge and go up to iw because you always take pictures when you're out at rockaway yeah i tell you i go up to nyack and shit i'm actually getting ready to do nyack on my tri bike nice so what are you training for

right now uh i got uh the malibu olympic triathlon uh which is like a tune-up race, whatever. So that's finally going to get you over to my house. Yeah, motherfucker. Eric is coming with me, too. That's good. Where are you staying? My boy Todd's place. Okay, cool.

I love that an Olympic Triathlon is just your little warm-up race. Just like off the dollar menu. Well, I mean, it's, you know, it's an hour 45, two hours compared to a... Yeah, I did it in 204, the New York one. I did the bike leg in an hour and two. They didn't do... Do they have the Nautica New York one this summer?

No, they... Where's the bag? What do you call it? The bag's on the floor over there. What bag? It was the sponsor just off the top of my hand. Mama Chia? No, the yellow bag right there.

Oh, Aquasphere? Yeah, Aquasphere. Yeah, Nordica dropped off. So did they have that race already this summer? No, that's next weekend. But you're not doing it? Nah, nah. I'm on tour.

I'm in Texas. Next week we go to Dallas. I got the book party party and i fly out the next day to go play texas thursday friday saturday are you doing a book tour proper or you're or it's just gonna be like no i got all kinds of shit we're about to sign a tv deal tell me about that are we recording yeah we're on dude we started a long time ago. Well, I did this thing for Vice, which was... I saw the Munchies video. Yeah, so it was kind of like, you know, the way I talk, which is like...

Did you just cut one of that? No, I was trying to discreetly open my heart. Yeah, if I do that in a room this small... We're in New York City. You are about as discreet as a fucking jackhammer, Mishka. So we're in New York City. You are about as discreet as a fucking jackhammer, Michigan. So we're in New York City. You're telling me I'm not discreet? No, you ain't.

Gentleman John over there. This podcast is already off the rails. Already lost control. We're in New York City. I flew in today. I've been flying all day. I got here. We're in a tiny little hotel room.

It's 90 degrees out. We got to turn the AC off because it makes too much noise. And we're basically, Michigan and I are laying in bed next to each other. And John's on the other side there. They're canoodling. Yeah, hopefully it doesn't get too hot. That'll probably prevent us from going too long today. But hey, first, before we even get into it, man, it's good to see you guys.

Likewise. Yeah, welcome back, man. Been too long. Yeah, man. I'm really glad that we can make this happen but uh what were we talking oh yeah so um we did the vice thing and basically how did that do for them because that was great it was the biggest uh i think like the biggest uh views they had on that they did, it's on munchies, and you go to John Joseph Juicing and making a shake. Right.

I'll put a link up in the show notes for this. So the funny thing was, it's just me being me, the way I talk, and the way I do shit, which is like a lot. And what is that like, John? Yeah, you know. Yeah. We keep it straight but uh yeah so these people from this production company saw it and contacted me and were like dude we want to do a

fucking show with you and so we went up and met with them and um so we came up with the concept and everything, and they drafted up. I mean, they have shows on cable on fucking all the stations. They're like a reality TV show. Yeah, they're like a real deal company. So is it going to be like the hardcore chef? I can't tell you what it is, man. It's top secret. No, it's doing what I do the way i do it you know uh helping people

get healthy and pulling no punches but yeah so you know we went up met with them and now they drafted up contracts we're going back and forth with our uh lawyers and agents and uh looking like it's gonna happen you know know. So how does that work? You'd shoot a pilot and then shop it around? We're going to shoot a sizzle. I got you. They're going to bug on you. I mean, you know, there's like the network,

certain networks that are already like all over it and whatever. So we'll see, you know, we'll see what happens. I mean, I had an opportunity to do this before, and then they they were like we were going to do this thing called street kid rehab and it was the way i do it and i don't i don't know why you guys don't already have your own culinary show i mean you guys are the like the yin and yang of uh of plant power you guys will be kick a kick-ass team that well you know if we get this show i I'm going to have all dudes like him and Brendan and everybody coming on because that's what it's all about. I mean, his story, look at Rich's story. It's just people that read his book are like fucking blown away.

Yeah. But it was funny because like the dude, and this is exactly how it went down. The girl who's one of the producers and one of the showrunners, developers, just walked in. And her roommates, who are total fucking meat eaters, were like, yo, look at this fucking dude. This guy's fucking great. And they eat meat and everything. And she was like, holy shit. eat meat and everything and she was like holy shit so she told the boss of the company of the whole shit of the whole product of the uh production yeah that like you have to watch this video and he's like you're making me watch a video about juicing and smoothies so he sat there with his

arms crossed like at first kind of wanting to hate it but he's like get that fucking guy in here and we want to do a show with him yeah that's amazing so you know i'm not surprised you know what i mean i i this is where this is all heading for you yeah uh you know but it's i like i was saying we had a chance to do this other show street kid rehab and a bunch of things happened but one of the things it went we had several callbacks with a and e and all this stuff and it always came back to the same issue so there's no way meat can be in the house that you're bringing these young convicts into i said absolutely not you know like i'm not going to you know like you know i'm know, I'm not going to, like, water down the message.

And, like, I don't care if you got a fucking Kentucky Fried Chicken as your sponsor. Then I'm not the person for you. I'm not going to dilute the message or, like, sell out. This is the only concern I have about you doing TV is that you actually have principles and ethics and things that you don't compromise on. Well, and there's a lot of politics. It's all about, you know, you scratch my back and I scratch yours, or let's make a deal or, you know, that kind of shit. And I know that doesn't fly with you.

Yeah, well, you know, I'm going to do what I do. And if that's what they, and I told them that already, it was kind of like the same thing that went down with Medias for Pussies. I said, this is who I am. You know what you're signing on for. And that's what I told them. You know who I am. You know what you're signing on for. And that's what I told them. You know what I do. You know what I stand for.

They haven't even read my books. They're just like, we just went in and pitched them for an hour. They're like, fucking dude, we want to work with you. And, you know. Well, I mean, we were talking about this before we started recording, the idea of the difference between preaching to the choir and reaching the masses, right? And so when you told that story of, you know, all the other women who are mediators who are watching the video saying, this guy's great, your ability to tap into and connect with an audience that isn't necessarily on board with your message,

that's how you change lives, right? It's not about, like, patting people on the back who already agree with your message that's how you change lives right it's not about like patting people on the back who already agree with your perspective on it's like first of all it's like i don't like you said preaching to the choir it's like i don't care about the people that's already vegan or plant-based or whatever i mean i do care but the reality is over the 10,000 books that we sold independently on our own, a majority of those books were women who bought that book for their men who refused to change. And then they were like, yo, I love the way this dude talks and does things. And they actually, I corresponded with a lot of them and they, I mean, thousands of emails. And it was like, dude, you're the first fucking person that ever talked this shit that I'll fucking listen to that got through to me.

We had one dude, Joe the fireman. I gave him a copy. Big fucking Jersey fireman, college football player, linebacker, 260 pounds. He's like, I haven't read a fucking book since 1978. Let me tell you something after i read your book i realized one thing he sent me this email he's like i'm the biggest fucking pussy on the planet and he fucking like started changing his whole thing over so now you got all these politically correct you know people attacking me for the title of the book and i really don't give

a fuck because they have not been able to reach the masses they have not been able to reach that demographic of men and whatever that well to them the vegan and the whole shit is like that's why i put the five-letter curse word in the book that vegan is the five-letter curse word as soon as you say that shit dudes cringe because of the way that these people have presented the message. And I'm like, I come from the street. This is where I come from. This is who I am. Yeah, I eat fucking vegetables.

But that's not the all in all, you know. Let's talk about the title, why this title and why is it important. Well, I'll tell you originally the way that it came down, because we were trying to call it something else. I was getting ready to call it the Go Green Road to Health, Longevity, and Todd fucking Business Plan. It was like, dude, who are you? Fucking Dr. Oz?

Motherfucker, you're John Bloodcloth from the street. And it always happened between me and Todd. We'd be spitballing. Todd's your business partner. Yeah, Todd Irwin, he played, he's a big time, played drums in a lot of bands. He put out both the books. He's like my fucking brother, dude. Coolest dude ever.

And we've been on this whole journey together. And you know what? You got to do the right thing. So when the book did get picked up i gave him fucking half the advance i'm like that's how you do shit when people do things for you and and are there with you on the journey and spending their money to make shit happen you don't forget people you know so the thing was before we even came up with the title i was in the gym one day and i'm telling my friend like yo you know you gotta you know talking about the whole plant-based thing and some fucking like meathead overheard it and was

like yeah all those motherfuckers are the fucking pussies with their fucking tofu and i was like excuse me motherfucker i'm like dude i've been vegetarian and plant-based for fucking 33 fucking years, bro. Like, what kind of shit are you talking with your tiger stripe fucking pants and fucking, like, you know, gold gym tank top and fucking weight belt? You know, doing, like, looking at himself in the fucking mirror for two hours. You know, but then Todd was like, dude, you need to throw it. I told him what happened. And Todd's like and you need to throw it i told him what happened and todd's like you need to throw it back in their fucking face all these motherfuckers that are like you know vegans vegetarians or fucking pussies and all this shit fuck that i go you know what

meats for fucking pussies fuck them motherfuckers and he was like dude that's the title that's got to be the title of the book, Meat is for Pussies. And really, it's a catchy title, but even if you open up that book and read the first thing I say is if you continue to lead these sedentary lifestyles and you're sitting on your ass and eating all this genetically modified food and meat and dairy and all this shit, you'll become a pussy dependent upon you know the drug companies to keep your ass alive if that's what you want put the fucking book back

it's not for you so and it's the perfect title that encaptures you know encapsulates what you're all about i mean you just get it in the title but it's certainly not without its controversy and this is also what we were talking about right before we started recording uh you've already gotten a little bit of a taste of that. The book comes out two days from today, right? So that's part of why I'm here in town. I'm going to go to the book party and all that kind of good stuff. But VegNews magazine, VegNews is like the primary kind of vegan magazine, national magazine out there.

On their Facebook page, they showed a picture of the cover and they said, oh, we just got John's book in. We're excited to review it. And then there was like a whole conversation in the comments section. Thousands of them. And you took a lot of heat, and there were a lot of people that are upset about the title. So I just want to give you the opportunity to kind of explain what you already have a little bit, but to kind of address the controversy, because there are a lot of people that don't really understand where you're coming from and it's most likely because they don't know who you are they don't know what your vibe is they don't they don't know the story they're just they're

just impulsively reacting to it unless they listen to rich roll podcast number 77 and they know who the fuck i am 41 and 71 well well you know what it is it's like i had one motherfucker comparing me to like like i had people pipe in and be like, yo, this dude does a lot of philanthropic work. He fucking, you know, he's not a fucking sexist, misogynistic, fucking whatever the fuck. And I was fucking with him. I'm like, massage who?

Like playing all stupid. And then this motherfucker was like, so what John Wayne Gacy dressed as a clown and, you know, like went to entertain children in a hospital. Who cares if this guy does feed, you know, if he feeds the homeless. It's like, dude, chill the fuck out. Like, and a bunch of women. And clearly on the cover of the book, it says for dudes who want to get fit, kick and take names but you know it's a new york

word you know it's like it we used to say it back in in the fucking day yo stop if i call you a if i call you a dick am i calling you a penis if i call you an asshole like you know it's just one of those new york words that you know everybody throws around and to me i'm like it's so shot you know our whole thing with our company which we me and todd started which is loudspeaker um is to be disruptive and that's one of the things that we have to do if you just you know if i sit outside of a burning building and I go, hey, man, the building's on fire. Maybe you guys, you know, want to leave. No, you fucking scream at the top of your fucking lungs, like get the fuck out of the building or you're going to fucking die. And that's my attitude with this book.

and that's my attitude with this book. Whatever it is that causes people to pick up the book and read it because the title's controversial or whatever, there's a health epidemic in this country, man. It's like people are dying. One in three are obese. It's like all of this disease, all this other crap going on, and they're worried about the title. And, you know, the same thing when Rory Friedman put out Skinny Bitch.

Everybody attacked it. The same politically correct fucking, you know, people. Regardless, what I say is judge a thing by the result. And she got hundreds and thousands of women to fucking change their lives and their health and saved millions of animals and yet these people attacked her because she said bitch it's like where the fuck did society i mean imagine if a show like all in the family which was brilliant because through comedy he made points you know through comedy he made points. You know, through comedy. Where did these people get such a fucking stick up their fucking ass

that you have to fucking walk on eggshells with every fucking word you say? Right. I mean, all in the family would never get made now. Hell no, neither would the Jeffersons. Yeah, fucking hockey. The other thing is the amount of shit you're getting now for the title is one one-h hundredth of the shit you would be getting if you published the same book under another name. The title is the right title because it's who you are. That's what the book is.

And if you called it the mind, body, the mind, body, wellness, whatever, people would flip out when they read it. And it's you. Yeah. You know, the thing is, even if I would have said meat is for, somebody said, why couldn't you say meat is for wussies? And I'm like, if I would have said wussies,

they would have been like, well, that means pussies and, you know, you're fucked up and like, you know, I don't care. Well, your whole thing is you don't compromise.

And I don't care. So it would be disingenuous for you to call it anything else. I don't give a fuck. I've reached fucking thugs and fucking... One instance, my boy Ian was a fucking, you know, fighting Muay Thai. And he's like one of the world's most famous bodyguards in Australia. Like he fucking protects everybody.

He read the fucking book and like changed his whole life. And now he's turning around. It's like a touchstone. He's helped dozens and dozens of people get off the bad food. So if I reach one person, I don't care if 10,000 motherfuckers slag me. I don't give a fuck. If I reach one person, then that book did its job. And you know what?

That book has changed the lives of thousands of people so i don't care what these crows fucking got to say it's like you know they're just a bunch they're just a bunch of fucking negative people that got nothing better to do than write shit on the internet and you know what they say the dogs may bark but the caravan must go on and that's that's how I look at it. Because if anybody knows me, they know that I'm not judging anybody. I'm not fucking sexist or racist or homophobic or any of this shit. This asshole was like, you probably come from a privileged white background.

I'm like, motherfucker, do you even know me? Like, go do some fucking research and come back and talk shit to me. Because you don't know me. You don't know what I've been through in my life. I think a lot of this background information is important. The title comes from you turning it around on another jackoff who's attacking you at the gym, telling you that you're weak because you're not eating a hot dog. Yeah, bada bing, bada

fucking boom. That's the whole thing right there. And like, you know what I got to say to all those people? I don't really care if they don't like the title of the book. You know, it's like I come from punk rock, man. It's fucking shock value. It's about that's what you have to do to get through to

fucking people. You know, it's like if I just did the Go Green book, okay, the vegans would be so happy. But none of the motherfuckers we want to reach, which is the majority of society, would touch that fucking book. Like you said, that demographic that we want to reach, they're not reading Veg News magazine. They would not touch it like you said if it was the last fucking magazine on the rack in the fucking supermarket. Right. I mean, the guy that you're going after is the guy that would never pick up VegNews. The people that already read VegNews, they don't need to read your book. So that's what we were talking about with Preaching to the Choir.

It's about how do you reach that fireman? How do you reach that construction worker or whoever it is that is the least inclined person to ever pick up a book about health in any respect, whether it's vegan or otherwise. And so you have this ability to kind of like pierce that veil and get to those people and connect to those people. And that's what the book is about. Because it's like my background of where I come from and everything else and what i've been through and all my experiences in life as soon as i have a chance to have a conversation with them which is what i told the people that were talking all the shit i go why don't you come to the book party let's sit down and have a rational conversation and then that turned into a

whole nother well what are you saying that we're irrational just because we don't agree with it's like you're not going to get anywhere with these like fucking internet people and these people that are just so stuck in their ways and i i think for a large degree that to a large degree that that's why this whole movement has failed over the years and now you're getting a whole next you know dudes like you dudes like brendan and and all these cats that are kind of stepping up and and you know it's you know dudes like you know john hines and fucking you know you know rip esselstyn and all these cats um you know that are that are plant-based that are like beasts mike mauler all of these cats like you know like when

you tell people like yo i'm plant-based i don't eat any meat and you know today i just rode 85 fucking miles on my bike you know the other day i i rode 50 and hit the fucking gym you know it's like well one of the reasons i love you and rich as a team is because i think there are a lot of people that rich that won't necessarily reach because of his background where he comes the way he speaks and to those people you know i mean i remember that thing when you dropped out of doing the veg fest thing to go and talk to people in line at mcdonald's instead yeah and it's like those people get you yeah Yeah, because like, you know,

whatever happened at the VegFest thing, it was just like, who cares about talking to those people? Most of those people just come for the free food anyway at all those fucking

vegan events. It's like, you know, they're not there to listen to somebody. You know, I'm speaking at the Seed this year. And you know they're not there to listen to somebody you know i'm speaking at the seed this this year and and you know what i did i did the seed a while ago and then i had a line out the fucking door trying to buy the book they're like yo you're the first person that ever talked this way it you know dealing with this subject matter and and i'm speaking again this year in August at the Seed.

Right, that's what we met at the Seed. Yeah, man. I'm like, I was like fucking fanboyed out. I was like, yo, motherfucker, I got a fucking diet in me. Actually, truth be told, I stalked him on fucking Facebook and he didn't write me back.

I'm like, you cocksucker motherfucker. Is that what happened? I don't remember that. I sent you a couple of things on Facebook and you never wrote me back. It was like, John who? Who is this guy? He's like, who is this fucking weirdo?

Did you get the auto reply from his fake assistant? No, I didn't get shit. Not even a reply. I was like, yo, I'm a friend of Brendan's, man. I'm fucking mad respect to you. Rich is cold blooded, dude. There's a lot of noise on Facebook. Yeah, no, I know. There's's a lot of noise on facebook yeah no i know there's

fucking a lot of weirdos before we met but uh but then i saw you at the scene and i was like yo dude like again you know we've been we've been boys ever since it's a it's a bromance so uh so so just to be clear for the people that are listening out there you put meat is for out in 2010 as a self-published book in a limited run but now it's being released on the 8th uh harper college by harper collins wide release like major hardback publisher hardback but but for somebody who might have already read it from the previous release like what's different about this uh the chapters that or that i you know kept are updated a lot there's been a lot of new updates uh there's new chapters right there's a whole new 30-day workout program with my trainer, Aaron Zabonowski, who is just like a fucking beast, plant-based, designed a 30-day workout program. There's a mental toughness training tip for every—because I think the mind is the most—like, you gave me a tip, my boy boy who was special forces my other friend who's cecile

like i i think most of the whole thing about everything in life is not so much physical as it is the mental so there's mental toughness training tips for every single day and there's all new recipes there's also with this whole environmental thing that's going on now which none of these people who were talking about all this global warming or whether you agree or not or whatever the environment is being fucking destroyed so just for instance my friend went to this thing for the rainforest right and saw this um this this, actually it was an interview. So the person kept pushing, oh, it was in Cowspiracy. Cowspiracy, yeah, I wanted to talk to you about that.

Yeah, they wouldn't say that it was the meat industry that's tearing down the rainforest. So I have a section in the back of the book that is every industry, whether it be beef, chicken, pork, egg, fish, dairy, what every single one of them with all the numbers is doing to the environment. They are the biggest polluters, the fishing industry, the biggest destroyers of the ocean, of the land, of the fucking air, everything. And nobody will fucking go at it head to head with these motherfuckers and call them out on it because they're fucking scared.

Just like the woman, whatever, she wouldn't. I haven't seen the movie yet. I want to see it. But that's what I was hearing was that they would not. And then she had to be like pushed up against the wall and practically fucking choked for her corner to say like, well, yes, they're tearing down the rainforest to graze cattle. Yeah, well, essentially what it is is I had the filmmakers on the podcast, so if you've been listening to the show, you heard that interview already most likely. But if you haven't, there's a new documentary that's come out.

It's called Cowspiracy. Actually, it's not out yet, but the guys are going across the country screening it right now. It should be available in DVD in the next couple months, I would imagine. And I've gotten involved with the film like kind of just recently to help put the word out about it. But essentially, the idea is that the biggest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions, global warming, global climate change is the animal agriculture industry. And we talk a lot about fossil fuel consumption and water consumption and all these sorts of things, but we don't really talk about that. And these guys kind of go around and they try to speak to the major non-profits in the

environmental space, and a lot of them don't even really want to touch it. And what they're really getting at is that a lot of these huge non are, you know, they rely on donations. And some of those donations come from that industry directly or for people that support that industry. And so it's a big political hot potato. And a lot of them don't want to talk about it. And that one instance you're talking about, it was a woman with a major rainforest action. I forget exactly what the name of the NGO is, but essentially trying to protect the rainforest, right?

And she didn't want to say that that was a contributing thing. And he just kind of kept pressing her and pressing her. And she finally was like, all right, finally, like she started to address it. But you realize like how deep this runs and how little we're talking about it when it's like this giant elephant in the room. and how little we're talking about it when it's like this giant elephant in the room. It's like a gag order these people have from these charities or whatever to not say anything. Yeah, I mean, they're scared it's going to affect their contribution base,

and they're afraid of political blowback, and they're afraid of getting sued, and there's all kinds of craziness out there. Well, you know what it's heavy they don't cut me no checks so i called them out on all this shit in the back of the book and uh it's astronomical the amount of fossil fuels they use the amount of water the amount of land the all the grain what it's 80 something percent of all the grain grown in the united states is fed to animal for slaughter right like it's 80-something percent of all the grain grown in the United States is fed to animals for slaughter. Right. Like, it's just insane. And imagine all the fossil fuel needed to run all those carbines

and then machines and, you know. Yeah, it's upside down. It's not sustainable. We're not going to be able to continue to feed the planet this way. Right. And keep things in check. And that's why when you address every single issue whether it's feeding the masses or the environment or health or

everything it just all comes pointing back to like yo make switch to a plant-based diet man and you can solve a lot of the ills of the planet so the book has the how to do it how to do the diet it's got the workout plan it's got the why you should do it like all of that right and you've got like fred bishi who's backing up all your science on the sort of health aspects of the well a lot of other people too like you know like dr osfeld who's like his quotes on the back of the book robert oswald yeah he's like you know got the credentials and actually right now up in montefiore which the bronx has you know the demographic of the bronx is a lot of latino and black and you know uh economically challenged people and they're the ones who have the most issues with diabetes and

everything, and he's healing them all up. He's doing incredible work at Montefiore Hospital right now, and he doesn't take a dime for it. All the money he gets, he puts back into the program. He volunteers his time, and he's healing these people with heart disease and all these you know diabetes and and and you know just tons of problems you know and uh he's changing lives up there you know right so how do you address sort of the you know right now it's all about paleo for a lot of people right paleo diet's huge butter was on the cover of time magazine like two weeks ago did you see that yeah i saw it just like new health food or something yeah yeah so there's this feeling the heat they're feeling the heat

there's a weird thing going on where suddenly there's this ascension of this kind of high fat approach to eating that's gaining like seems to be gaining momentum and popularity for whatever reason. And there's a lot of people who are pointing to certain studies saying, oh, didn't you get the news? Like saturated fat is not the enemy anymore. And there's this weird kind of thing happening right now where the plant-based movement is picking up steam and it's growing, and that's awesome.

And meat eating is actually down in America now. it's down in america but it's up globally because when you have the the sort of industrialization of india and china places like that they're developing a middle class and they want to have their meat so so globally it's actually up yeah but if you look at things you know all these diet trends and i say that's why i have the chapter diets are for jerk-offs, because look at the whole fucking Atkins thing when that was blowing up. And then the whole truth be told, the dude fucking slipped on ice or whatever, had a massive fucking coronary, and the wife sued the guy doing the autopsy to not release the results of what dude's heart condition was. Right.

That he was fucking massively fucking sick. Well, yeah, yeah. He slipped on the ice. He was in New York City, right? He lived here. He slipped on the ice. He cracked his head. He went into a coma, and then he died.

So then there was a bunch of people who said, oh, he died of a heart attack. No, he didn't. He was in a coma. So there's all this debate and controversy around that. And so the people that are in his camp are in this kind of high-fat, saturated fat is not your enemy camp. They're all saying that that's nonsense, that he didn't really die of a heart attack. It was a contributing issue to the reason that he did pass away was his— The soles of his feet were greasy from all the animal fat.

He had burger grease on his shoes from Mickey D's and the motherfucker busted his ass. But, you know, she sued to not have the autopsy results released to the public. had the autopsy results released to the public so she got a stop order so they couldn't you know release those results because you know dude you're sitting there eating a bunch of animal products and you know and the paleo shit is like that's like i'm like dude first of all you know it's that's not sustainable for the planet. If everyone tried to have... You can't feed the planet on grass-fed beef. Yeah, it's ridiculous. And second of all, that's one of the things,

the systemic pollutants that environmentally, animals are picking all of that up. So it's like you're gonna eat the flesh of those animals it's i mean there's so many issues with the paleo i mean i think it's great and i think they see results because they're getting off their ass and they're working out and they're cutting a lot of the processed foods out but the whole thing they cut the dairy out too yeah but uh you know the whole thing is it's like you're still eating meat, and the body's not really designed to break it down.

So at some point, you're going to have issues down the road. So why should somebody like me, who's gone back and forth with the plant power thing, but yet seems to be unable to commit? Because you're out of your fucking mind. But no, but I mean, why should I read this book instead of one of the other 90 vegan books that are out there? First of all, it's not a vegan book.

I don't even use the V word. I don't call myself a vegan. But I think, first of all, the tone of it, and I say, as I say, judge a thing by the result. If you turn around and you follow what's in this book, you're going to see the result. If you eat organic, non-GMO, plant-based diet, and you work out and you do that 30-day workout that's in my book, watch what's going to happen to your whole body. You're going to reduce the acidity in your blood. You're going to just so many beneficial...

you're gonna just so many beneficial um so you give real specific advice as to how to how to do it how to make the step how to exactly there's i i mean my trainer has got i don't know how many damn uh qualifications and he's right there telling you here's what you got to do every day and you know then there's you know the food in there uh and the thing is is like yeah i eat a lot of raw now and i'm my taste buds have but there's also stuff for people who are just becoming uh vegetarian they're doing that transitional stuff and like all these people that are down on like eating like you on eating the seitan or whatever, it's like, yeah, maybe 20 years later you can pop that shit, but don't tell me you weren't eating all that fucking fake meat shit

when you started out. I try to meet people where they're at. And that's one of the things that Rich talks about too, is meet people where they're at. So this should be like a gateway drug to uh to plant power exactly and it this book is designed for people who are fucking drinking beers and eating fucking barbecue meat you know sitting there yeah the meatheads of july the meatheads at the fucking gym and everybody else is it it there? Is this, you know, for somebody who's eating a raw food diet and doing fucking bad water

runs? I mean, you know, maybe they'll get something out of it, too. They'll learn how to maybe talk to people. Fucking have a fucking personality. Jesus fucking Christ. Some of these people are so fucking dry. I can't. I can't listen to them for five minutes.

That's what I loved about Rich. The motherfucker got a sense of humor. We sit down and fucking yuck it up for a while. But the whole thing is you judge something by the result. So my whole thing is I got all the alcohol, the drugs, all that shit out of my system. There's a lot of people that I also help with this book who were having codependency problems with fucking drugs and everything else and alcohol and having all these other issues and it's like when they see the journey where i came from you know fucking being

in fucked up foster homes and on the street and like the whole shit that i've been through and how i was able to come through the other end and as i say the diet's not the end all but it was a huge part in the evolution of my consciousness was to really start thinking about you know what the fuck i was putting in my system i think that's a huge part of your story which is this idea that when you remove these things from your daily routine, that has shifted your consciousness. And that's a hard thing to talk about and have it come off in a way that's palatable for somebody to hear because you start sounding a little like new agey and woo wooey.

But I can tell you that's what happened to me. I wasn't immediately consciously aware of it while it was happening. But looking back on it, it was a but looking back on it it was a massive shift in consciousness when i made these changes and and that changes everything else in your life so it's it transcends what's on your plate absolutely i mean then i started like going to yoga i read sri lupra pod's books bhagavad gita science of self-realization. And then I really did some, I really started like trying to deal with all the muck that was in my fucking head for years of doing crazy shit. Well, you, you figured out the vegetarian thing before you got off drugs, which is so interesting

to me because my experience is like getting alcohol out of my life and then, you know, becoming smarter about what i eat and what i don't eat and exercising and how to exercise and stuff like that i mean do you want to talk about uh i guess you know your how you were turned on to a vegetarian diet and uh yeah i talk about it in the book too it was the was the bad brains. I worked for them, and they were surrounded by all these kind of real positive. PMA is the whole thing they talk about, positive mental attitude. And that's what my website is, purepma.com. And that's how we try to roll.

And they were like, you can't fucking eat meat. You have to eat ITAL, which is food that gives life and vibrance to the body. Cut out the fucking drugs. You know, cut out. I mean, and I'm not going to say I ain't had my battles. I went through a whole shit in fucking 88 with fucking smoking freebase and all that other crazy shit. But ever since that point, I knew, like, you know, this life's a razor's edge, man. You better fucking be careful.

And I've been fucking sober, you know, pretty much since 89 New Year's Eve or whatever. It was when I stopped smoking weed and all that, you know. But I just felt being around all these dudes with higher consciousness you take on the you know the qualities of the people you associate with that's why they always say you can tell a person by the company they keep if i'm not shooting dope i'm not gonna hang out with some motherfucker banging fucking a bundle of dope a day for what like it's like so you know if you hang around positive people which is what i try to do in my life now, I've actually been cutting out so many people that just fucking are so negative, you know. And I'm like, yo, if you really want to change, I'm there for you, but I just can't roll with you with this fucking negative shit every day.

It's a fucking bummer. shit every day it's a fucking bummer and you know it comes back to that whole craziness that i went through as a kid and everything else and then hanging with the bad brains and them showing me a lot of things and their sound man being a raw foodist and you know then just doing the research victorius kovinskis and the rest of the you know hippocrates people and like really studying and trying to learn that's why I always say I didn't get into this shit blindly I was never like I come from the fucking street you know like I was a hustler you were not gonna hustle me if this shit was not true I wouldn't there's no way I would be doing this shit 33 years later and sticking my bag my hand

in the bead bag and chanting Hare Krishna every day or whatever. Like, even the frauds of that movement, you know, that took it over after Prabhupada left, I fucking have gone on the war path against them, you know? So how do you take, like, how have you crystallized these, you know, kind of the spirituality aspect of your journey and put it into terms that are relatable in your book? It's like part of my dna at this point it's just instilled in in what i do every day every day you know it's like to me i'm like i can't see no other way to be like you know and the way it's in the book is like

honestly i think like people have to take baby steps I don't tell anybody there's only one path or whatever. To me, I'm like, okay, let's meet them at the road. You're eating fucking McDonald's, and you're going to fucking barbecues, and you're getting fucking sloshed every night. You don't walk into a first-grade math class and try to teach trigonometry or fucking algebra. I'm giving you the fucking one plus one equals two in this book right you know what i'm saying it's like and that's why people relate to it and it's told in my tone it's like you know and it's funny yeah if you can get past

if you can pick up yeah most people are like who the fuck is this motherfucker talking about meters for four yo fuck this guy you know like the three stages the three stages of truth you know is first they laugh and then and then there's severe opposition to it and then you know and then they it's accepted acquiescence yeah it's like so it's like yeah sure they're gonna laugh at further you know like whatever but and then they get you know violently opposed and you know it's invaluable though that you're spelling it out in the you know the simple straightforward steps you know when i was when i was trying hard to do the plant-powered thing all my friends were like wait so you don't

eat this and you don't eat that you don't eat this like what the fuck do you eat um so you're telling people what they can eat and what they should eat well i tell them what they should you know and what to eliminate out of their diet it's just like you know it's just like when people say yo you don't get hired oh you never even i'm like dude i don't even take a sip of champagne on fucking new year's eve i don't miss it you why? Because I'm dealing with a higher vibration and you can't give up the lower taste until you get a higher taste. That's what Prabhupada always said. So why am I going to go down into the muck

and fucking eat some fucking pig knuckles or some shit or chitlins or whatever the fuck when I'm eating the most high vibrational food on the fucking planet and I'm dealing with like high vibrational food on the fucking planet, and I'm dealing with, like, spiritual consciousness, not religious, that's the big difference. It's not religion. All that shit is dogma.

I don't deal with that. And, you know, that's why I'm able to give up intoxication and all this other stuff. You can't do that artificially you know you can't stick doing what i'm doing even even with dietarily like or any of it unless it's like real shit this is real shit it's like and i i think you know people get that sense is like it's a genuine thing like you know i'm not fucking down i'm not sneaking fucking dunkinguts and fucking White Castle behind motherfuckers back. This is, you know, I wear my fucking shit out there. This is not true.

I saw a steak in his bag, man. Yeah, I got steakums and shit. What do you think the difference is between someone like yourself who just who gets it and is on board and the person who, you know, who's more like Mishka, who's like put his toe in, tries it, then backs off and just can't quite like fully embrace the idea. Like, you know, how do you bridge that? Well, I think the bridging will come. A lot of times people that dabble in and out, some shit happens, man, some health issue or whatever. And how old are you now uh 37 okay so see you're getting to the point now your metabolism slowing down your fucking digestion ain't as strong as it

used to be so as you get older in life and i see this shit all the time the dudes who all laughed at me when i was a young fucking you know 19 year old doing this shit are all fucking obese they got they got health issues now they're coming to me like with diabetes and all this other shit like yo man and i'm there for them i helped them out you know it's i'm never like see i fucking told you so but i think like it really takes sometimes you know there's three types of there's three types of individuals when it comes to the acceptance of knowledge and that's what it says in the vedas too the first person hears uh the knowledge and they and they grasp it and they accept it and they apply it to their life

the second class of person you know they hear it they dabble and they get kicked in the ass and then they change the third person is the least class you know the lowest class of intelligence is it you know they just keep getting kicked in the fucking face it's like when the male fucking donkey keeps trying to smell the female's fucking ass and he keeps getting kicked in the fucking face and the motherfucker still goes back and, you know, fucking sniffs the ass and gets kicked again. So I don't know where Mishka falls, how much ass he's sniffing, but, you know, don't let it be that something happens.

Well, as human beings, pain is our you know pain is our is our motivator you know what i mean like that's really what gets people to truly change when when i um when i quit drinking like the winter before i quit drinking i alternated you know quitting for two weeks or 10 days and then going off the rails and then i you know i would stretch out oh i almost made it three weeks that time. So, you know, if I was you, I would give up on me and just write me off as a lost cause. But, but knowing, uh, knowing, having had that experience of having to try it a little bit where there was nothing at stake and try it a little bit where there was nothing at stake. And then finally I was like, all right, I'm ready to make the plunge. Like never again.

Right. Well, it's a difference between holding on and surrender. Like when you're doing that 10 days, you know, whatever, you're still holding on to the idea that like maybe you can control it or that you can still enjoy it when you want to or at times versus just completely letting it go. Like just saying, I'm done. Yeah. it go like just saying i'm done yeah that takes a lot of times that takes something it takes uh a great yeah a greater like fear of death to overcome that fear of well the other thing too is the you know if you look at the way the whole subtle body and you know is set up you have the mind the intelligence the ego and then the senses so the intelligence is supposed to be fixed up in knowledge so that the senses don't dictate to you you know the sense of

the tongue sadhira vidya jao the tongue is the most in bengali it means the tongue is the most voracious and difficult to control but if you bring the tongue under control you can control all the other senses so the way that that happens is you fix up tongue under control, you can control all the other senses. So the way that that happens is you fix up your intelligence. I think you need to do more research and really understand this shit that it's not like, oh, I'll just do this for, you know, for 10 days or whatever. Like my path, and that's why I know it works, is I did so much research. I sat there like a motherfucking college student researching this shit I would fucking read anything that came my way philosophically and dietarily I studied everything I would go fucking see Victorus Kavinsky speak

in fucking you know 1981 at integral yoga institute I would listen to gary noel in a fucking burnt out squat with puerto ricans fucking pulling guns trying to take out shit and i'm sitting in there with a candle listening to gary noel on a fucking you know amfm little fucking handheld radio and take notes and i think like when you really fix up your intelligence and you read books like thrive and and rich rolls book and the china study and all these different books that really are fucking just fucking dead on you can't argue with it so like the intelligent thing to do is just surrender to it that's what life is about is surrendering the false ego and all these false concepts and saying like, yo, that's what I had to do. I was so such a street like nobody could tell me nothing.

And I challenged every single thing that came my way. Even all of that stuff with the food and the spirituality. only a fool will continue to go on his you know his misbeliefs when you know you're wrong and you're fucking stubborn then you're a fool that's what i say so i when i got defeated philosophically i surrendered to what it was which was the higher knowledge you know whether it was spiritually or diet or anything i was like all right and then you know you're using your body as a lab and i'm like holy shit this food makes me feel great chanting and meditating and going to yoga makes me feel fucking great i don't want to feel fucked up no more you know and that's where the changes come when you get

to that point then it's like all right it's time for some surrender and that's the false ego that's the last thing we hold on to is the false ego that i'm god nobody could tell me nothing that's the last hinge of maya the illusion is to think that way and not accept any outside you know information and like somebody else could have it, and you don't. Like, okay, somebody else gave me the answers, and we're right on, and that's why I surrendered to it. As much as I love the title of the book, that's the shortcoming of it,

is that you're a really intelligent, sensitive, perceptive guy, and you've done a shitload of homework. You're a really smart dude, and you've done a shitload of homework. You're a really smart dude, and you've done a ton of research. That's why I always fuck with them, and I'm like, they call me a misogynist, and I'm like, massage who? They're like, you're sexist.

I'm like, yeah, I know. It's sexy, ain't it? Like, I try to play stupid, because that's what the fuck they think I am. They think I'm an idiot. Yeah. And like, who is this fucking moron? Yeah, but don't you want to just put him down? play stupid because like that's what the fuck they think i am they think i'm an idiot yeah and like who is this fucking moron but yeah but don't you want to just put him down no because i fuck with

him a little bit and then i drag him in it's like taking somebody out to the deep water and then you fucking like put him in a fucking chokehold and fucking drown him intellectually the drunken school of combat i like i like fucking with them a little bit and then i fucking dropped the hammer on them you know with a good fucking knee to their face you know theoretically not like you know i would actually a conceptual need i wouldn't actually like you know combat and but i have had motherfuckers be like i'll fuck you up and i'm like all right you live live in Brooklyn, motherfucker. You're talking shit.

I know a gym. Let's go. We're going to do a whole motherfucking triathlon run. We'll go do fucking CrossFit, and then we'll get in the ring. And then I never heard back from them. But I don't try to challenge motherfuckers like that, because it's like, you'll be fighting. Wait, that wasn't the email you sent to Rich? Nah.

Motherfucker, you don't answer me? All right, fuck you. Wait till I see you at the Seed. On his third appearance on the podcast. You guys are the only people to do it three times, I think. Holy shit. Oh, maybe Julie. Yeah, Julie, for sure. Well, hopefully I can get a date out of this one.

No, listen, so, yeah. That's a whole other podcast. Motherfucker, the only date you're getting is with the fucking dude that's going to do the colonic on your ass. If you guys try and turn this into a fucking plant power intervention, I'm going to fight my way out. I can see the door. But I think you are going to have a hard time after this session when you go to your next meal. I hate this. Every time I hang out with you guys, then for the next 18 hours, I'm just – I'm like my head is fucked.

You're going to be forced to grow. Yeah. It hurts. It hurts my brain. Rich Rolls Podcast builds brain cells. You heard it here first. You can't stay stuck on stupid, Mishka. Stuck on stupid will be the title of my next book.

So, you know, we're always either growing or we're regressing. There's no stasis, right? And like whether it's diet or fitness or your own personal evolution, it's always in flux. And you're always, you know, kind of learning new things and honing and changing. So in the four years since, since the initial publication of Meat is for Pussies, like, what are the, what's, how are you different? Or how have you changed or grown? Or what have you learned in the process of rewriting this book that's kind of more expanded than where you were in 2010 well i started doing iron mans just to really like challenge myself for real you you really discover a lot about yourself doing that shit so i got into

that you know reading your book and then you know all the other stuff just like it you know tried to grow myself uh you know personally and really challenge myself and push myself with whether it's writing it you know a pilot or for a TV show or a film or, you know, and I think, you know, the other thing really is to really reach out and try to help as many people as I can, because that's one of the things that as putting out, you know, my evolution of a Cro-Magnon, which was my first memoir in 2007, now it just got put on, if you go on purepma.com, actually the audio book is there, and it's on Kindle. Yeah, I noticed it.

I just saw that the other day, and I was like, oh, I didn't know it was on Kindle. Yeah, that just happened. Because people were always saying it was sold out. It is. And these motherfuckers that are trying to sell it for a thousand dollars and we're gonna reissue that book it's just there's a screenplay based on it so we don't want to you know whatever but don't pay fucking don't even pay more than 25 for the fucking book but you can get it on

kindle you can get it on kindle yeah you can download it for like a few dollars like whatever so and it's phenomenal it is like our huckleberry finn or something like that i mean it's really john it's a massive thank you man and um you know the thing was is like i wrote that book as a way to deal with my demons but also to let people know that maybe they're going through some stuff, that they ain't alone. A lot of people, very like, I hate to say the word, but a lot of kind of well-known famous artists and musicians and everything wrote me fucking personal emails. Because I run in a lot of circles, like actors and fucking musicians and a lot of well-known people and we're like dude i had that

same things happen to me and like fucking the courage to come out and fucking you know so what that's done and this first issue of meetings for pussies is really it's opened up channels of communication with a lot of people so i try to reach people on so many different levels to help them, you know, out of compassion because I really feel, you know, that's my job here on this planet is to pay forward. And like the article in Thrive that's coming out, that's what I said. If you get some gifts in this world man and you know and you've been helped by others it's your fucking duty to turn around and try to help the next person and that's why after they

they talk to me and i answered every email every message on facebook or whatever and it's like you know they they really see where I'm coming from. I'm not judging them. There's a lot of motherfuckers that could kick my ass to eat meat. I'm not really calling them pussies that way. I'm saying like, you know, let's all wake up as the human species and they see where I'm coming from. So that's one of the main things is it's made me where I'm coming from. So that's one of the main things is it's made me kind of be a lot more out there in the public

to be able to reach people. Like Vice hitting me up, you know, putting that thing on. Right, I mean, I think there's a couple different ways to be of service. And now as you're kind of, you know, your star is rising, so to speak, you can do that on a mass level through Vice or these other like media outlets. But I think what doesn't what people don't really know about you or don't know enough about you is the extent to which you're devoted to that one on one human interaction type of service.

I mean, every time I call you or I text you, you're like, I like i'm running out i gotta go feed this guy or i'm helping this person or you're always like basically you're it seems like you wake up every day and you're like where am i being of service today and that's like your priority over whatever it is you felt like you wanted to do that day yeah well that's you know acharya means one who leads by example. So when Prabhupada crossed two oceans to come to America at 70-something years old to help people, like, you know, that's the example. That's what we should all be doing. If we, you know, this society is just becoming so cutthroat and dog-eat-dog and about competition and all of this shit. cutthroat and dog-eat-dog and about competition and all of this shit but if people just stopped and helped the next person in line man we could start flip this whole planet all this shit that's

going on but the powers that be in terms of like it's divide and conquer and that's what they want they don't want the people getting together and working together in harmony and and trying to you know cure the ills of society prisons are being traded on motherfucking wall street they need to have those prisons filled and there was this there was this magazine sacha which means the mode of goodness and they interviewed this dude who's doing 25 to life and he became a vegan in prison and he said if i had any buddhist and he said if i had access to this knowledge i would never be where i am right now african-american dude i wouldn't be in here but he changed his whole life in prison and became a vegan in prison plant-based doesn't eat any animals or animal products and he's and he became a buddhist so i feel that like i go speak at high schools now

anytime somebody asks me to do something go speak at a high school or go do the family dinner nights with candle 79 healthy school uh food program i'm there because i know how important it is to reach the younger generation now and give them the knowledge that was given to me when I was their age and and what I've been able to do with my life playing music and all the people that inspired me the bad brains and all these such amazing positive people you know that I've been able to get in contact with and i think it's like it's our duty to turn around and like pay that forward and go help the next people in line go out there and feed the homeless people in the streets of new york plant-based organic meals and all the other stuff

i mean you know it's like this is giving me facility to do more and more which is you know what i want to do i kept a yoga center open for 10 years and paid for it and built it with my own two hands and it helped a lot of people we fed the homeless at the park like all kinds of stuff so that's what i'm looking to do with you know what's happening now you know with these good you know you put good energy out into the universe and it comes back. And, you know, philanthropically, I think it's just so important to, you know, even my mother was like, you could have fucking owned a house in Westchester, whatever. And I'm like, yeah, but ma, look at all the beautiful things that's come to my life by keeping that yoga center open.

And she's like, you're absolutely right. I said, there's a lot of motherfucking miserable people in scars there with million dollar houses i'm a happy you would be one of them i can't see you in westchester i'd be battling with everybody on my block you get off my lawn barbecue fucking meat smokes coming into my fucking window you motherfucker so so yeah let me just ask this one question that's been on my mind, which is, you're outspoken about the Monsantos of the world and talking about GMOs

and how we're in this healthcare crisis and whether it's the themes of cowspiracy and we're destroying the planet and all of this. When you look at all of that and then you look at kind of how you're touching people through what you're doing, does that leave you feeling optimistic about our future or you know how do you you know where do you see this going like where do you see us in 20 years i mean i think the planet as a whole like

is really you know it's said even in the vedas that this is the golden age, the age of Aquarius, of awareness. So as much negativity as is being put out there by the people who are controlling the media and controlling this and controlling the food, there's also this huge, massive movement of consciousness. And that's what I try to look towards and i see it growing people are becoming educated about you know one of the biggest labels that consumers now look for is the non-gmo label non-gmo project label that is one of the biggest labels that everybody people are starting to catch on that fucking gmos you, these companies are owned by fucking drug companies. Like, it's not a conspiracy.

It's fucking money. It's if they can get you sick eating this shit, then you're going to have to buy their meds. Watch the idiot cycle. I always say, follow the money. So I really do try to see the glass as half full instead of half empty i look to like dudes that that were like you know basically even worse than me like yo blood clot let me ask you something about the fucking genetically modified uh you know fucking shit that's going down in hawaii right now like like the dudes that are coming to me now are like it's getting through it's getting through the thick as a brick

motherfuckers too like it's you know you because the thing is is like this message is not going to get out on fucking fox news you know they're gonna make you look like a, they're going to try to make you look like some wackadoo conspiracy motherfucker. But you know who I just talked to? Eric Nese, the guy that was on Rockin' Jock and all that shit. He's a big raw foods dude. Look at what the fuck is going on in Hawaii right now.

You want evidence? Go there. These motherfuckers are spraying near schools their're gmo crops wearing full-on hazmat suits hawaii is the testing ground right now for ground zero of gmo and growing the perfect fucking gmo seeds where they can take control of the world's food supply and it really is it is the battleground right now politically for all of this because that is the one place where people are actually organized and they're rallying and they've had enough of this. And, you know, we're distracted, right? Yeah.

Dancing with whatever it is, video games, movies, like, you know, like most of America, like we just it takes a lot to get us excited about anything to get off our butt, right? But in Hawaii, this is the issue. They're really up in arms about this, and they are taking to the streets in mass quantities. It's un-fucking-believable, and I think everybody needs to pay attention because that is the fucking – that's ground zero for this whole issue. Right now, what's going on in Hawaii? And I know people that are on the fucking ground over there. So do I. I just had dinner with one the other night.

He was telling me all about what's going on. Yo, their shit is not growing because of the fucking chemtrails that they're spraying over there to fucking stop. They're putting so much aluminum and all this other shit into the soil that they patented an aluminum resistant fucking seed they're bombarding those islands with fucking gmos and all these chemicals and all this shit because it's an enclosed ecosystem so they can really test it's a perfect petri dish exactly for testing all of their exactly what it is and there's now all these kids and all these uh people are coming down with all of these health problems because

like these guys are out there spraying like a hundred yards from a school yeah blows over and they're wearing fucking hazmat suits from head to toe respiratorsators, everything. Like, yo, you're eating that shit? You're letting that go into the atmosphere, into the soil? They're poisoning the fucking rivers, the estuaries, the oceans, everything over there now with this shit. It's fucking crazy, and I'm fucking paying attention to this shit

because the GMO shit is the... That's the real fucking New World Order, motherfuckers. They know if they can control the food, they can control the fucking people. And that's what they're trying to fucking do. And, you know, you really have to pay attention to what the fuck is going on. This is a huge issue. Don't think it's some fucking hippie fucking dude, you know, with Birkenstocks and a Grateful Dead shirt fucking protesting outside of a fucking health food store.

This is real families and they ain't fucking vegan and they ain't plant based. But what that shit's doing to them, they're out there fucking protesting against it and they're being affected by it. Mishka? Well, and yeah. No, I mean, I mean, Hawaii's got massive problems without that as well the compressed population the divide between the locals and the tourist industry but this issue has them has them united you know they're like in a united front on this one so it's absolutely man it's bringing all the people together and the growers, dude, we have had to switch to this GMO fucking seeds because our shit will not fucking grow because of what they're spraying in the atmosphere that's coming down.

You know, everyone looks at that chemtrail shit, too. Like, that's what that shit is doing, man. They are fucking taking control of the food supply to stop you from growing fucking organic food and if they can do that then you have that's that's the last snare because they're saying okay how do we stop these motherfuckers from not using our product well let's just go up and uh spray fucking a bunch of shit all over their crops so it don't grow and they got to buy our seed pay attention to that shit dude there's a whole thing on what in the world are they spraying

about the fucking chemtrail issue and the gmos in hawaii and that's how they're fucking cutting you off by your they're cutting your fucking air supply off there are a lot of people though that that would say, I'm with you until you get to the chemtrails part, and then you're losing me. Dude, it's no... What they're doing with the chemtrails stuff is, if you look, they patented an aluminum-resistant seed. What's some of the main...

They're coming up with these chemicals all over the planet. The aluminum oxide, all this different stuff. And what that does is change the pH of the soil. So the only thing that can grow in that soil, just like when they spray Roundup, what grows, the only thing that's, everything else will be killed except the stuff that's bred genetically to resist fucking Roundup. So now, why did they come out with a fucking aluminum-resistant seed in 2009? If you talk to the people of what the fuck they're spraying over the Hawaiian Islands, that's one of the things my friends are telling me, too,

is they bombard that fucking place with those chemicals. So it is the Petri dish. That's what they are spraying all over there. And the chemicals they're using now, because what happens is, you know, these pathogens and everything else, eventually, they're going to become resistant to fucking Roundup. Coming out with these whole next level of chemicals that are so fucking poisonous. It's like it's Agent Orange. They told this one guy in this video that I watched, you have Agent Orange poisoning. It's, you know, from the chemicals that they're spraying onto the crops. It's crazy. I know my silence has been deafening here. It's because I'm totally ignorant about this.

I don't want to, you know, i don't want to you know i don't want to say anything stupid maybe we can put together like a end notes to this podcast for other people who might be as ignorant as me of other resources to check out to to find out about this john's got a whole reading list and a documentary list right i i mean i definitely i mean that would be awesome for me yeah i mean i definitely say that people should uh definitely check out the world according to monsanto genetic roulette what in the world are they spraying uh genetic roulette's the big one genetic roulette jeffrey smith man he's got fucking scientists and it's so funny because like i had some i had some dude attacking me on on on facebook and then i go on his fucking page and do a little research and guess who he fucking

worked for fucking monsanto he's like you're just stating all of this evidence that there's no proof and jeffrey smith is a is a kook you know and all this other stuff but you know there's a lot of scientists right now that are like yo this is really really becoming a fucking big issue so there's a lot of documentaries and that's why I say also to watch the idiot cycle which is a great documentary because the woman follows the money she's like race for the cure for this race race for this, race for that. Why don't somebody find out why the hell we're getting sick? And she follows all the money of all of these chemical companies

that are putting out all these home cleaning products and cancerous things in diapers of children and just like dioxins and like just crazy stuff and when you start following the money back where does that where does it lead to it leads to people want to profit off of you getting sick and that's disgusting and if you live this lifestyle where you know you just really stop and put all the poison out of your home, out of your children's diet, out of your diet, you know, there's still going to be environmental issues

that you're going to be getting polluted with, but, I mean, you'll be cutting down 90% of, you know, crap from your life, and that's what people need to do. Right. I mean, a good example that I think everyone can relate to, uh, is just looking at antibiotics, right? So if you look at antibiotics, pretty much the antibiotics that a doctor will prescribe you if you're sick are pretty much the same antibiotics when we were kids, right? It's like amoxicillin or penicillin, you know, like these, it hasn't changed that much. like amoxicillin or penicillin, you know, like these things.

It hasn't changed that much. And that's because from what I understand, who is the author of that book? I can't remember right now. It's escaping me. But essentially the idea is that there isn't that much money in developing new antibiotics. There's a lot more money in developing drugs that people have to take their whole life rather than once a year or twice a year when they get sick. So it's the Lipitors and those kind of drugs where all the money is going into. And there's so much money involved in that and such huge financial vested interests in that, that, you know know why are we surprised when somebody proposes the idea that uh

it might be a disincentive to try to prevent people from getting sick you know what i mean right exactly like they told my boy oh you're gonna be on these cholesterol medications and you know uh he had he was getting crones and all this other shit just a slew of fucking problems and i'm like dude that's a bunch of bullshit the doctor was telling him straight up and then he listened to everything i told him right and this is a true story this is this is from a friend of mine googie from the the Misfits. He cured himself, first of all, of fucking cancer, okay? He's a cancer survivor. He went on raw foods, no processed foods.

The fucking doctor told him, you're going to be, because what happened was all the drugs that they gave him in the beginning, it started really fucking him up. And he went off of them. And I was like, Arthur, you don't need to do all that shit. And then that shit gave him like, you know, those drugs all have side effects, it's a domino effect, and that's what they want, you know, this cholesterol-lowering medication is gonna fuck with the enzyme levels in your liver, then you're gonna take a drug for that, and it just goes on and on and on, and I said, dude, you do not need to take all of that shit, I'm telling you right now, here's what you got to do.

And he followed it to the letter of the fucking law. And you know what he did? Because he's such a New York motherfucking badass. He went back and he said, you know what? Fuck you. And he fucking threw all the fucking pills in the doctor's face. He's like, I'm all for all of it, you motherfucker. You're telling me I can't do something?

And he's the type of dude that he was like me because you know he's a fucking rough fucking dude and when somebody tells him there's no way you're going to be able to do it that's a challenge to him and he was like took up the fucking challenge and he's healthy to this day you know and he stopped eating all the processed you know he was doing the vegetarian thing you know not caring about gmos and fucking eating dairy and doing all the other shit not caring if there was some fucking shit in his pasta or whatever the fuck you know and he cleaned up his whole shit and went raw a lot and got juicing and everything he ate was whole food, plant-based organic,

and cured up every issue he had. So when some guy comes up to you who's a lifelong barbecue-loving guy and he's like, hey, one of those guys that comes up to you later in life searching for a little bit of the answers, what's the first thing that you would say to somebody like that who's trying to dip their toe in the water but like isn't so sure yet like if you just go dude you gotta get up all that shit you gotta just start juicing like if you

it's too much right you know what I say to them how long did it take you to take a shit this morning it took me 30 seconds motherfucker it's like 20 minutes dude nah but i just say start small and the starting of the small is the elimination you start eliminating all all you know because if you're trying to light the fire of health you don't throw water on it so

like prior to even getting the dude to i'm like all right let's sit down and analyze what what the fuck because that's what they always ask me what do you eat every day and i tell them and they're like oh shit dude like you know because it always comes down to what do you eat salads and i'm like what the fuck do you eat like you know dude, you had fucking like Mickey D's and Kentucky Fried Chicken three times this week. And so I start telling them. I analyze what it is they're eating, how they're living. And I say, yo, maybe try to, you know, eliminate some of this stuff and add some good stuff. And you'll start to see positive results.

Do a test. Go three days and see how you feel just doing it this way and they're like yo i felt great i had more energy it took me three minutes to shit instead of 25 like you know and it's like that's one of the other things is that your body starts to detox from all the bad stuff and like people give this up because one dude followed it and then like after like 10 days he's like dude i got fevers i got fucking boils coming all this i'm like dude your body is eliminating the shit your colon's fucking cleaning out your fucking your blood is cleansing it has to get rid of the toxins where's the fuck's it's

supposed to go it has to go somewhere stick with it it will pass and that's what happens they and then they push they push through but that's one of the things i love that you say is you have to meet people where they're at rich rich you always say that i try to meet people where they're at and that's the practical application of this whole thing. If you try to give people too much in the beginning, they're not going to be able to stick with it. It's too drastic of a change for them. But you try to just work with them where they're at and then push them along a little bit. You have to challenge yourself.

Like I said, I need to challenge myself. Even though I've been challenged in so many ways, I'm like, that's why I started getting into triathlon. All right. You know, I want to do the fucking Spartan death race at some point. I want to continue to challenge myself, you know, to push myself because that's you know what it's all about it's just like that's one of the things with harper collins every time they gave me a deadline to get something done for this book i had it done fucking a week before because that's really you know how i try to live my life is to not procrastinate and put shit off. And that's what you're doing.

You're sticking your head in the fucking sand and you're procrastinating and you're thinking it ain't going to fucking happen to you. If you don't look at rich when you're saying this, look at me. We've been down this road. And I know you don't procrastinate because when I was writing, when I was, when you asked me to write something for your book,

you were on me every day. I'm like, dude, don't cover. I was writing, when you asked me to write something for your book, you were on me every day. I'm like, dude, don't. I got a cover. I'll get it to you on time. I was on you like stink on shit. Dude, just so you know, you got four days left. I'm like, dude, relax. It'll be done. Yeah.

One thing I wanted to ask you about the book is that on the cover, it's targeted to men. You know, one of the things that I really see is that we on the one hand we have like ray romano you know the sort of like eunuch who's just henpecked and and then on the other ray romano no no listen hear me out hear me out and then on the other you know the other side we see like the rock or aaron hernandez this like you know this sort of like wild man, this cartoon of manhood, you know, but I really feel like there's a crisis of manhood right now that, that boys don't know how to become men. And a lot of times what we do is we, we see alcohol as a shortcut to toughness or being violent as a shortcut to toughness and toughness as part of being a man, being an adult, being a grownup.

Why do you agree with any of that? Do you think that's bullshit? I mean, and toughness as part of being a man, being an adult, being a grown-up. Why? Do you agree with any of that? Do you think that's bullshit? I mean, why did you target the book towards dudes? Because I think dudes are fucking sleeping with their health. If you go to a lot of the vegetarian restaurants and the organic and the higher consciousness, the yoga spots and everything, I think like 80% of that shit is women.

The women are way more ahead of the fucking curve than the dudes, and the dudes are always thinking, it's going to make me a fucking pussy, you know. I'm not trying to be some yoga wimp or, you know, if I don't eat fucking meat. Like, just all of those questions. So I just tried to, it's just like this dude Joe the Fireman, you know? He's like, yo, I never would have fucking listened to this coming. Like, the way you hit it on this tone, you know? And I think that it's coming from a dude who is a dude.

I'm a fucking, I'm a dude, you know? It's like, I'm not a fucking'm a dude you know it's like i'm not a fucking like you know fucking emo motherfucker that's like you know i mean my background and everything language i speak their language and that's what was needed for the longest time was somebody communicating with them on their level and i think, I always try to tell people to be compassionate and to care and all that is not a weak quality. I know some people who are the toughest motherfuckers on the face of the earth, right? Special forces people, all these dudes that I know in my life. And they're some of the most compassionate,

thoughtful, amazing people towards other people. Yeah, because they understand the value of it. I just think this whole mentality that we have to, you know, you see these dudes, these fucking dudes walking around in New York with these faces, like, they're all paper tigers, man. That's what I call them. They're fucking paper tigers. They feel they have to fucking wear this tough face walking around New York all the time. Like they're some kind of badass.

I mean, what did Joe Frazier say? What's the most peaceful room? A room full of fucking fighters. They got nothing to prove. Yeah, it's a job. Dude, it doesn't make you a fuck. If you're a fucking pussy, you're a pussy. A fucking hamburger ain't going to make you tough.

A fucking beer ain't going to make you tough. Yeah. But I think what Mishka is getting at is really an interesting issue, which is we are in this time where it's confusing for men. We don't know. Are we supposed to be the sensitive guy? Are we supposed to be the macho guy? We get mixed signals, and, we weren't given proper direction growing up.

And I think that that leaves a lot of people sort of scrambling and afraid. And when you're afraid, then you're going to default to what's going to, you know, there's this grasping for what is going to define me as masculine. And somewhere in the evolution of our, you know, of our race, we became ingrained with this idea that, you know, eating meat is associated with manhood in a certain way for better or worse. And so overcoming that or even combating or even talking about that paradigm, it gets really tricky.

Well, I agree. And I think, like, not face... Fear is due to ignorance. And I think, like, my whole thing has always been to face my fears. You know, even when I wrote The Evolution of a Crow Magnon, like, admitting that, you know, fucking motherfuckers was molesting me when I was a kid in in foster homes and everything else that shit was like i didn't i kept fucking coming back to that that issue

putting that in my book took took took months of like me fucking having to go back and do rewrites because i was like you know fear of embarrassment or fear of whatever the fuck and the whole thing is is like you know and writing that episode of vulnerability is probably the toughest thing yeah it really is i mean it was i'm i'm i'm not bullshitting you there was times where i literally would sit at my computer and have a fucking sobbing breakdown for fucking a half hour where and then just have to stop writing and then be like oh i can't put this in and then like you know but the whole thing is is i think as a as a species we're learning to communicate

better with each other and you know uh to say like yo it's cool you know i mean i'll take for instance uh some of these guys that are coming back from the war. And some of these dudes are SEALs, Green Berets, seeing their buddies. And they're fucking, right now, they're getting so fucking, they're taking these fucking medications and all this shit for depression and everything. And these guys are the toughest motherfuckers on the face of the earth. And they're fucking going like, bro, it's okay. Like, you know, like, this is what we're going through and we got to push through it and help each other and i think rather than you know some of these men kind of see it as a sign of weakness and then they make

fun of you or whatever the fuck it's like i just think to me i I'm just like, when I see somebody suffering, I'm not trying to like put that person down. I want to reach out to them and say, yo, man, I know I've been there. And I think that's why even the evolution of a Cro-Magnon is become like this underground cult fucking book that everybody either listen to the audio or read it or whatever. And they're like, it's having an effect because it's like people know i put my fucking heart on those pages and i think you know as men why shouldn't we have compassion and cry and like dudes that are like you know afraid to show their emotions or whatever it's like I think that's part of being a human being, man. You know, it's like...

Yeah, well, then you said it, afraid, it's fear, right? So I think that the most underappreciated and, you know, under-recognized aspect of what it means to be truly strong is to have that compassion. And you look at the great leaders of, you know, throughout history, you have the ruthless, you know, dictators, of course, but the greatest leaders of all time were ones that also exercised the greatest compassion.

And somewhere that gets thrown under the bus as part of what it means to be a man. But I think that's the crucial defining aspect of being truly strong because it shows you're completely secure in who you are, right? of being truly strong because it shows you're completely secure in who you are right like it's not a threat to you to extend yourself to another who is weaker than yourself yeah i mean like i'd rather lift someone up than step on them you know it's like that's how i look at it and i'm like you know it's i mean that's coming back to the book. That's why I wrote the book, because I put my own experiences in there and it's helping people. I don't care what the vegans got to fucking say. The politically correct fucking vegans with a fucking 10 foot pole up their ass.

Fuck them. I can give a fuck less about them. I'm not fucking writing my shit for them. fuck them i could give a fuck less about them i'm not fucking writing my shit for them i don't even give a fuck i mean you know i'm trying to help the person that needs to fucking help you know and however it is that i get to reach those people if it works like i said if the book even affects one person's life and helps them then it did its job well i'm pretty sure and i'll take all the i'll take all the fucking criticism but like you know i'm not going to change you the fuck i am this is who i am and you know i'm not going to change the tone of what i do for tv or

a publisher or anybody so on that note um I want to switch gears a little bit. We're kind of having this post-punk Algonquin table situation here. You know, it's like all three of us have written books. All three of us are endurance athletes. All three of us are sober. You know, there's a lot of like commonality in this room, although I'm overwhelmingly under-tattooed. So you guys might be taking me to the tattoo parlor after this if i go if i go plant powered me and jj get

to pick out a tattoo for you so julie if i come home with a tattoo it's not my fault yeah my neck right that just says hire me um but uh yeah i want to take this opportunity because I have, you know, you know, guys that both of you guys, I just, you know, there's so much that I share in common with you guys, this idea of, of athleticism and creativity. And John, we talked about this on the phone the other day, like one of the things that I struggle with my whole life, I always thought either you, you're an athlete, you can be an athlete, or you can be like a creative type, like an artist type, but you, you can't be both of those things. Like you got to pick one, right? Like how do those two worlds

meet? And that yet all three of us here, we're all athletes and we're all creative people. And we're all trying to balance those two different passions and for me it's hard a lot of times like i want to like train i want to put all my energy into like being the best i can you know physically for sport um and then i want to put my butt in a chair and i want to write and like write do the best writing that i can but i like to lose myself in those two worlds. And it's difficult for me leading a busy life and trying to like do both of those things at the same time. So I'm interested in both of you guys, like how you handle that and what you think about that. Ideally, they can speak to each other, you know, that, that, uh, you know, both writing and

training, there's a finite limit that you can do. I mean, one of the, you know, one of the best things that I, writer's block is great motivation for going on a long run. You write until, you know, until you're melting down until you're like, I can't fucking deal with this anymore. I can't stare at this screen anymore. I can't sit inside anymore. Then you go out and like, just blow it out on a long run. And when you're on that run, your brain starts working again. The blood's flowing. Your heart's pumping.

And you'll come back. And if you don't sit down that day to write again, when you sit down tomorrow, you have new stuff. Your brain has moved forward. Absolutely. I mean, I wake up every day. Usually the first thing I'll do is get some writing done and then train or whatever. But I don't know how many times I've been out on the bike, 8 o'clock in the morning, I'm at the beach already and breathing in the air. And I'm just fucking getting massive ideas for a fucking screenplay or whatever.

Whatever, you know, ideas for a fucking screenplay or whatever whatever you know ideas for whatever just the endorphins of the exercise you know but it is it's a tough thing to balance but uh you know you can definitely uh get it done am i trying to be see for me it's like I know I'm not going to be a world-class, under-nine-hour fucking Ironman. I don't have any misconceptions of what the fuck I'm trying to do. I do it to challenge myself and to keep motivated and keep fit, and that's what I go to the gym for. And really, ultimately, it's like what's going to the whole package is what's there to really help people.

Because it's like, you know, I think I'm helping more people through my writing than I am doing a fucking Ironman. That's my personal. I do that for my own self and I'll run and do whatever just because I enjoy it. and do whatever just because I enjoy it. But, you know. But also I think a lot of your writing, you know, comes out of that experience of going out to do battle with yourself. I mean, I did a race a month ago, and it was 50 miles,

and it took me almost 14 hours. It was the people who put on the death race, and they are sick motherfuckers. It was brutal. Joe DeSena. Yeah, and they are sick motherfuckers. It was brutal. Joe DeSena. Yeah, and Andy. Oh, my God. So we're running down this mountain, and I know that I'm about to close it out, so I'm opening up a little bit, like longer stride, like going for it.

I'm going to blow it all out towards the end. We get down. The water's right there. I can hear the people talking on the other side of the water, and there's a little sign that says, this way just three more miles i was like fucking three more miles man i can't i can't walk three more miles i can't you know and i i almost cried i really just almost sat down and cried and then i was like all right i gotta i gotta walk it in and i was walking and you know getting closer and then this other dude came up behind me and he was like finishes right

up here man we got like let's go let's run me. And he was like, the finish is right up here, man. Let's go. Let's run it in. And I was like, what race are you finishing? And he was like, the 200 mile. And I was like, yeah, I guess I can run it in. Oh, he's doing it. 200 mile?

Yeah. And I had to like. And he was the one who kicked me in the ass to run it over the finish line. But that experience of getting torn down and then built back up, the next time that I sat down to write, it was like I was writing again for the first time. So it was invaluable to writing and to moving. That's how I finished the last story was that race.

That's beautiful. I mean, yeah, man. It really takes you to stay focused. I mean, I'm writing a new album now. I mean, right after my book party Wednesday, I'm flying to Texas to play shows. So it's like, you know, you're playing shows. I know, which is amazing because you're like,

anybody else that would be having a big book coming out, that would just be their whole universe. But you're like, yeah, it's coming out, but like, yeah, I'm going on tour with my band. Yeah, I'm like going to Texas. because that's what i love doing too the music is what you sell your books at the venues for the shows uh i did before yeah now last time i saw you play it last time i saw you play it looked like you'd just gotten off your bike to do the show you're always like i do man but you know that's everything that i i guess the essence of

all the other beautiful gifts that came in my life stemmed from the crow mags and the music and you know the other bands that i've been in and you know so it's like the music really is is the foundation for everything and then you know i broke out into trying to challenge myself on these races and and uh you know and writing is a challenge too it's a different kind of challenge because it's like it takes mental focus to sit down there and block every other fucking thing out and that's what's great about having a girl like you know my girl erica she just knows like yo that's writing time she don't fucking bother me man it's like i was like if i had to go to an office and work for five hours you wouldn't see me so if i'm sitting in my back room for five

hours and i'm writing scenes or right you know and now we're doing all these downloadable guides on the website different stuff you know we're dealing with these quick guides and so it's like you know i'm always writing i'm always trying to create something because that's you know what it's about and you with your right you know it's i i think that that the exercise and the positive living goes hand in hand with being creative, you know? Yeah, I think where it becomes a struggle for me is, you know, when the sort of the obsessive, compulsive, like alcoholic nature in me, like I just want to go down the rabbit hole because I just like, it's almost like it's not good unless i feel pain you know like i gotta i gotta like just suffer you know whether it's like training or like writing a book or whatever

like part of me wants to touch that you know and i feel like if i'm not touching that that then you know i'm not pushing myself hard enough obsessive compulsive i was a fucking crackhead i know well that's why why do you think i'm asking you guys? It's like, you guys, you guys, I have no idea what you're talking about. You know, so this is what I think, like, you're not going to lose that nature. So why not take it and turn it around and do something positive with that same harness that energy? I mean, I'm the same way, dude, I obsess about shit, but it then it becomes obsessing about it to get it done and that's a positive thing if you look at you know all these people that have done amazing things they fucking that's the last thing i say in my book is to live by the code of the warrior never give up and it's like it's not you have to be compulsive to get shit done because there's so many so much outside influence to detract you away from what it is that you gotta fucking get done you have you really have to just put the blinders on man and just block every fucking negative influence and that's what

i've been noticing more and more is like i'm having to like and it's just naturally those elements and certain even people are falling away because like i just don't have time to deal with negativity and like i'd rather you're like you gotta you gotta narrow down your life to like look you have a mission you're pretty, you know, where you're coming from and how you can affect people with that. So you wake up every day and you're like, how am I serving, you know, how am I serving this mission? And I, I feel the same way. I have that. Um, and I think the thing I was talking to Julie about this the other day, she's trying to help me through it. Cause she's, she's always like, you need to just balance out, like get balanced. And I'm, and, and I, and I. And I hear that and I feel that and I know that when I am more balanced that I'm a more

functional, positive human being. But I also recognize that the leaps and bounds that I've made in my life have been as a result of being temporarily out of balance. Like if I can go out of balance and like really like work on this book or train for this race, then I know I can move the needle. And when I wake up and I think about that mission and how am I going to, how can I serve this mission? How can I help people get healthier? You know, then I can get obsessive about it and I can justify being out of balance because it's coming from a good place or, you know, with a positive intention, but then it doesn't always serve me because then I'll get out of balance. And then I become, you know,

I would argue that the people who have made the most positive difference in the world have been out of balance. I think you have to be right. And that's an argument I will tell them, tell myself, but I'm also interested in being happy and productive and a good dad and a good husband. It's ironic to hear you say this because for the last couple of weeks or so, I've been thinking about you and thinking, oh, Rich has so much balance. And I said, I'm going to get obsessed with balance. So I've been trying to work out a little- That's an out of balance attitude about balance. Well, that was the only way that I could, I could make sense about it to myself. So I said, I'm going to work out every day for a short period of time instead of doing

six hours, you know, uh, you know, on, on this one day and burn the whole day doing it. I'm going to write a little bit every single day and just, you know, every day I'm going to work on these, you know, these three areas that I need, where I need to get things done instead of saying like, all right, I'm going to write for 16 hours today and I'm going to work on these three areas where I need to get things done instead of saying, all right, I'm going to write for 16 hours today and I'm not going to leave the house. Is it working? I don't know. I mean, I try to be balanced in...

See, I think you are pretty balanced. You get up, you do your meditation. Religiously, you never miss that. And I've been on a meditation streak and I've noticed the difference. I've been doing really good with that. pretty balanced like you get up you do your meditation religiously you never miss that and i've been on like a meditation streak and i've noticed the difference like i've been doing really good with that and it's definitely like the foundation right there that everything else flows off of right like you set the intention for the whole day right yeah well but john do you have a control thing though what do you mean well i mean i know that you work incredibly hard and that

you're a very driven guy and that you sort of like manage a ton of different projects and you have training and writing and the plant power vision um do you ever feel like there are times where you're working on a project where you're not in control does that make you crazy um no i don't i'm not a control freak where it's like i have to be the one like with chromags is it all of you guys like hashing stuff out in a room together or is that a project that you're driving writing is going to be with a different band but it's like even with the chromag stuff it's like it's like I'm not the fucking head HNIC, so to speak. It's a group effort, and everybody goes on stage and does their thing, and the tours and everything else, we function as a...

It is about the team. You have to be a team player in life too just like even putting out this book it was so many people involved with like even asking rich to do the forward and then like there's all these different people that were involved to bring that to light and it's like you can't forget those people too so if you're like this control freak that's trying to control every issue of you know that's where the ocd shit comes in i don't really have that i'm you know i'll work hard and take direction and stuff like that but do you feel like meditation is what helps prevent you from

being a control freak yeah because i have problems with that you You know, as they say, you know, man proposes, God disposes. You know, it's like you're not the controller. And that's one of the first things that you learn on the spiritual path is like you are not the controller. There's a lot of things that are out of your control. You do your best, you know, four agreements. You always do your best. You know, you sit there and you put your energy out into the world, but you don't have control over how the world reacts to it

or what the repercussions or what the benefits will be of that. It's like in the Bhagavad Gita, what do they say? You have a right to the work, but you don't have a right to the result of the work because it's like you don't know what's going to happen. So if you try to be such a control freak freak over everything you're going to lose your mind and then you're going to fucking when shit don't go your way you're going to be like relapsing with the drugs and the alcohol and the meat or whatever the fuck it's like you just have to you know yeah i mean

julie will always say to me like when you get into that headspace, when you're trying to be controlling and you're in your self-will as opposed to God's will, you're in your ego. And when you relinquish that and you can be in surrender, you open yourself up to the possibility that, you know, there's so much more than you could even possibly imagine. And it sounds kind of silly and, you know, like new agey or whatever, but I look back on my life and what it was like even two years ago, three years ago, four years ago to what it's like right now. And it's undeniable to me. Like I couldn't have predicted what would have happened in my wildest dreams. And it's, it's so much better than I would have plotted out for myself had i had the reins to be able to control it the way that i wanted it to go down right yeah and there's a

real beauty there's a beauty in that i mean even when i started playing music in 81 and whatever if somebody told me you know 34 years from now you're going to be writing books and doing all this other stuff and films. And I would be like, get the fuck out of here. Making videos for Vice called Munchies. Yeah, but see, that's the whole thing is you don't know where life's going to take you. That's the journey, you know, that is just an amazing thing. You know, but it's like, that's why i dig your wife so much man she's like when we did

the podcast she was like so in tune spiritually with everything yeah she's fully on your way and and i hate that you know just to just you know call things as it is i never try to say like it's so new agey or whatever the fuck because it's like i seem to think that a lot of the people that taught me a lot of the shit i know yeah okay they they were into different stuff from the normal society i guess they would be labeled as new age or whatever but they lived by that that's how they lived their lives and i saw the examples that they lived and i was like these people just ain't talking shit they're actually doing what the fuck they're you know the best leaders are the ones that lead by example you know and these people were like wow this dude's fucking like i would see them you know come under pressure that's

what does mckee say you know true characters, come under pressure. That's what does McKee say? You know, true characters only revealed under pressure. The greater the pressure, the greater the revelation of true character. And it's like, that's the real deal. And then I would see these people, you know, and they'd have their tests and they would be like, fucking, this motherfucker did exactly what he was instructing me to do. Right, just solid. Yeah, like.

But I think, you know, when we open up the podcast, you were talking, in describing the book, you were saying, oh, you know, the word vegan is like a five-letter word, right? But I think that when you say the word spirituality, that has the same impact on a lot of people. Like, that same kind of, like, talk-to-the-hand reaction that you get get from the word vegan if you try to tell a dude hey let's talk about like some spiritual stuff you know you're gonna get a similar reaction so you know you you're a very spiritual cat right so how do you navigate that like when you try to talk about these issues with when you're trying to meet people where they're at well i think philosophically is the way that i i try to do that with him like i'll give analogies and be like you know try to break shit down to the common denominator like yo because reality and

philosophically like if you look at life truth is truth It don't matter what label you put on it. If you just keep giving these dudes examples of like, yo, and they can relate and be like, yo, you know what, man? You're fucking right. That is a fucking very good point. I mean, that's the way my hard-headed motherfucking ass learned. headed motherfucking ass learned like i would you know be challenging and then i would have to be like oh shit you know what man you're actually right about that and you know that's what i try to do with people i just go man you know what read this book man go read this book and come back and let's talk about it because i think like you know that's a good thing because then you're not sitting there on the spot with somebody you can have a

philosophical discussion but then you send them on their own journey to sit there with their own mind and ego and in a fucking room by themselves and i think coming back to that fear word that's what a lot of people are fucking living behind the mask that they wear in in public that everybody wears that characterization as opposed to true character and people are wearing these masks in public of all these people they really are not so it's like that's the real fear so if you tell somebody yo read this get this book the science of self-realization you read that and you sit down in your room and read that shit the way that i did and let's have a conversation after that and then they're like oh that shit was deep and then it leads to like a next conversation

but i think you gotta give people space man you know to to self the journey of self uh you know that journey of self-discovery that we all went through to work out our demons it works for everybody when they try to do that i think yeah. Yeah, it works when you have the willingness. And you can't will that willingness on somebody else. I have a little bombshell to drop on you guys. This meditation thing, it actually fucking works. The last time that we got together, I asked you when we were leaving, I was like, John, do you really like fucking meditate every day and all this shit? And you were like, yeah, of course I do every day.

And if I don't do it every day, then I feel like shit. I feel unsettled. I feel imbalanced. And it took me a while. I had to think it over because on, on the one hand I was like, Oh, all this meditation, that's all bullshit.

That's all. But I know John and I know that he's straight up. I know that he's ruthlessly honest with himself and with everybody. I thought you were going to say I'm straight. And, uh, and I, and I was like,

and I was like, you know, I, I always said, uh, I would try anything once. And I was talking, you know, I always said I would try anything once. And I was talking about meth, but I can apply it to meditation too. And I tried it. And the first time I tried it, man, I fell right into it and it totally worked. And I, you know, I went, I mean, I try and do it as much as I can now, but I went a whole like 10 day stretch where I was doing it every day.

And it was just, it helped me you know well it does because i i really feel when you sit there and you block out all of the stimuli that i think there's so many distractions man like that's why i love the rage against the machine because he'd be like you know what does the billboard say come and play come and play it's like there's so much shit just being fucking your senses are bombarded all fucking day long and when you sit in a fucking room and you meditate or you chant and you have to control the mind you know what does it say in the Bhagavad gita it's more difficult it's easier to control the raging wind than it is to control the mind it's a fucking demon but you have to beat the mind with

a fucking stick every day and if i don't then i i god knows where the mind could take you you know so you really that's what the meditation does it just quiets everything down and you really put instead of looking outside of yourself you start to look inward and start to say like okay you know who am i am i this fucking shell am i the mind you say my mind my intelligence my senses my hand so who the fuck are you if you're not asking that then you're not even on the human platform of life you know it's about a tato brahma jigyasa understanding what is the purpose of human life it's to it's to acquire knowledge and you have to sit there and really just quiet the mind and be like all right who the fuck am I and what do I need to do?

You know, and that's what, you know, the text messaging and all this shit is just so many fucking distractions. Everybody's like running around fucking Instagramming and this and that, and it's just all bullshit because, like, it's just, this is all just more shit to fucking take you away from that inward journey of self-discovery, man, and that's what every man and every fucking woman needs to really do to get anywhere in life that, you know, that really matters, you know. Like, just like, what was it, slow-mo, right? Right, slow-mo.

Fucking what did he say? The dude's like, fucking even what I just watched, he was like, you know, this insane life of like working fucking 18 hours a day, and now the dude just rollerblades and it's like, and he's happy. It's all about being happy in this, you know, you know,

in life and not, you know, just being like a cog in a fucking machines and losing our humanity and, and not caring and having compassion for other people. Right. And, and to be clear, I mean, you're on Facebook, you're on Instagram, so you're not like a Luddite saying, like, I don't do any of this stuff.

It's your relationship to it. Is it owning you or are you owning it? It has its own place. It doesn't run my life. And if you read my posts and whatever usually it's pma funny or positive mental attitude or an experience i had on the street or you know it's never like you know oh my fucking relationship and like you know if another motherfucker cuts me off in traffic i'm like you know it's you know i use everything's a tool i can use a knife to fucking prepare a nice

fucking meal or i can stab somebody and ruin my life so it's not the tool that's bad money you know they say is the root of all evil that's bullshit it's like people do evil shit with it but it could also be used to do good good things you know so anyway so where where do you see uh all of this going for you like what you know where would you like to be five years from now i don't know man i'm i don't i don't try to like you don't plan ahead man i don't i never even planned my life like that i just you know what whatever happens i who knows i know one thing i'm not gonna compromise on my values and what i'm about i'm not gonna fucking sell out i had opportunities fucking out the wazoo to do that i don't give a fuck about that i don't give a fuck about fame or money or any of that stuff

you know because like look where i came from nothing having a fucking i was gonna ask that so to eat as a kid right you know and it's part of that is just every day is gravy yeah from surviving gravy compared to where the fuck i've been but it took a lot of work to to get to this place so i can't say like where am i gonna be in five years down the road i'm gonna work hard every day i'm gonna stay sober i'm gonna fucking keep helping people and try to if any monetary gain comes i'm gonna use it to help people the way i've always done i don't give a fuck about having a fucking Porsche or any of that shit, you know? I'd rather just, you know, I see people that give all their shit.

A perfect example is my boy, Tal Ronan, man. You know, he fucking gives away all his money to fucking charity. It's like, and he's fucking happy. He runs a great restaurant, Crossroads. Yeah, Tal's the head chef at Crossroads, which is like the restaurant in LA. Yeah, and it's like, dude, he's fucking happy. He runs a great restaurant. Yeah, tells the head chef at Crossroads, which is like the restaurant in LA. Yeah, and it's like, dude, he's a happy person. He's not, and he's like, you know, he's running in the circles with multi-millionaires. But that's just, he comes from punk rock.

He's just like, you know what? I got a great fucking life. I don't need all this bullshit. Like, that's kind of the way i i i think of it i'm just like yo you know i i i went from being a kid being starved being fed oreo spit fucking sandwiches and fucking eating stealing the dog's fucking milk bone dog biscuits because i was starving and now i'm like eating organic, amazing food. So it's like, where's the fucking problem? Just stay positive. And like I said, we don't have control.

I'm not going to sit there and try to be a control freak and try to figure everything out. I know as soon as my eyes open the next day, I'm like, all right, Krishna, thank you for that. Let me pay my respects. Let me do my meditations. Let me write. Let me train. And who can I fucking help? What's the next right best decision?

Exactly. And taking the association of great people like yourself and even Mishka. Even though the motherfucker didn't read my book yet. I tried to get a copy from you. Me and some pussies? Yeah, no, I texted you a bunch of times. Maybe you were too busy on Instagram. That's it, I was tweeting, motherfucker.

Sorry, you come second to my tweets, all right? And dude, I would have had a lot more questions about the book if you sent me an advanced copy. That's all right, man. We just fucking winged it in here, man. No, it's good. But I think it's a good place to start wrapping that up, man. And that's, you know, like I said, I think it's all about association and who we associate with in this life.

And I've tried to more and more as time's gone on, just really tried to surround myself with positive people and hope that some of their qualities rub off on me you know and that's what to me that's what it's all about and uh i'm still learning you know and i'm still trying to grow as a person and uh i have a lot of shit still to work on you know yeah that never ends but you know raise the vibration of your food raise the vibration of your company raise the vibration of your environment you know try to try to focus on the things you do have control over let go of the results and so yeah i hope everybody uh picks up a copy of the book and rich wrote an amazing forward i mean harper collins was speechless when they

fucking read that they were just like holy shit like you know they couldn't believe it cool it was very very well it was an honor to contribute it was i had a diabolical plan that i set in place to make that happen i'm glad it worked out i know they were like they were like you know um no because you said will you write the you want to be right the afterword and i was like okay and i was like i'm gonna write the four i got that door that door's been cracked open so i read it and i was like god damn i'm gonna fucking how am i gonna it's like a tough act to follow you know you fucking read this guy's forward and you're like holy shit i better go back and read some more books.

And then Harper Collins was like, this is a pretty phenomenal thing. What do you think about this being the forward? And I was like, all right, I just wanted you guys to say it, but I'm in agreement. And then I told him and he goes, I go, hey, he's like, you know I wrote the forward, right? I told him and he goes, I go, hey, he's like, you know, I wrote the forward, right?

I was like, yeah, I know. No, he was bragging to me about it when it came through. Dude, it's unbelievable. Well, I was really touched and honored that you asked me to contribute anything to it. So it's my pleasure and I'm glad that it made it in the book. And I'm really excited about this book coming out and I'm excited for you. And mostly I'm excited about the impact that I think it's going to have on a lot of people. So my message to everybody out there who's listening is you've got to get this book, honestly.

And I have a lot of authors on this show. Mishka's been on the show. I recommend everybody read Mishka's writing. I'll be there on Wednesday, buy my copy. I'll do the 30-day challenge for sure. I really do stand by this book, and I'm really excited to see how it's going to impact people. So if you're listening, please pick up a copy. And if it's something that it doesn't seem like it interests you, pick it up for that loved one or that person out there who's suffering, who is having difficulty and, you know, that you care about and that you want to help. Because I think

this book is, has really a huge potential to be able to cut through the bullshit and impact people that, um, are maybe harder to reach when it comes to talking about health and diet and things like that that guys don't really like to talk about right you know and you know i've been able to have so many amazing people be involved with it you know like yourself and the guys that did forks over knives and you know all these different people it's just everybody's willing to like regardless of whatever differences we may have in the way we do things everybody's kind of united in the common goal of like let's try to turn the fucking planet around and you know it's a great thing this is a you know this is a revolution and it's a revolution that's badly needed because people are sick out there.

And heart disease isn't just America's number one killer. It's the world's number one killer. I think in America the stats are something like one out of every two people will be afflicted by heart disease in some regard. One out of every three will suffer some kind of cardiac event in their life, and that's insane. So this is not just diet theory and a bunch of bullshit about, you know, looking skinny, like we are having serious problems, and especially with guys, you know, and it's time to get real. And it just breaks my heart when I see friends or, you know, people in my life who are suffering and knowing that these

conditions are diet and lifestyle oriented. And with a few simple changes, a lot of the problems that so many people are having could be easily avoided. So it's, it's, you know, it's, uh, it's as serious as a heart attack. No joke, right? Pun intended. And, uh, this book hits it right up the middle. And so I hope everybody will check it out. And if they do, the best place to do that, they can just pick it up on Amazon. Use the banner ad at richroll.com. Go to Amazon and pick it up.

And I'm sure it's going to be in all the bookstores and all that kind of good stuff. And check our website because we'll have a lot of good stuff on there too. Like, you know, I just did this quick guide on like, you know, how to eat healthy on the cheap, because that's what everybody says. I can't afford that shit. That's super important. And then you read this fucking guide I did. There ain't no way you can fucking tell me that you can't afford healthy fucking food.

No way. If you do, then you are a fucking... If you try to tell me, then you're a pussy. Because that means you're not trying. Is that like a free download on the website? No, it's like we're selling these downloadable guides real cheap. Is that at purepma.com? Purepma.com is our website.

You can download the guide. It's like 37 fucking pages for five bucks or whatever. You get to download it. It has all the fucking steps there's one for healthy eats on the cheap pma and then the third one is surviving new york city but it all has that fucking committee you know i try to like the way i talk the jj yeah the fucking jjs john blood clot boom buck plot experience and and this is what you left out of your description of the book, is that it will be incredibly entertaining,

and incredibly funny, and incredibly touching. Well, any book that has a chapter titled Diets Are For Jackoffs. Jerkoff. Jerkoff. Yeah. Get it right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's important. The Great Foo's Bamboozle. Does it have to be Jerkoff's it have to be jerk-offs? Can it be jack-offs? Can't we see? Let's send it to editorial. Anyway, I thank HarperCollins, too, for giving me just the fucking letting

me do what I do, you know, and not wanting to change nothing. Because, like, you know, when they read it, they were just like, we don't want you to fucking change a thing we and but i updated a lot of stuff and wrote new chapters you know so and they were like you're really made this a lot bigger book than we intended and i was like so what let's put it out and they did right so they've been really great to me. Harper Collins, Wave. Good, good. It's good to hear when the big publishing houses actually are doing right.

Yeah. That's cool. All right, man. And Mishka, you just had an album that just hit. I just finished it. It'll be out in October. Oh, it's not out yet. I have a new Kindle single up next month.

Right. Nice. Mishkalito. And I'm glad I finally got to be in bed with you guys today. I know. We all were, man. We made it happen. Thanks, you guys.

Made it happen. Made it happen. The post-punk Algonquin table. Algonquin bed. New York in Rich Roll's room station. Gets broadcast for everyone on the internet. All right, everybody. Peace.

Peace. Plants. Plants. PMA. All right, everybody. How'd that go for you? Was that intense enough for you? I hope you liked it. But I can promise you that you won't hear a conversation like that anywhere else this week or maybe ever. So anyway, I hope it came out okay for you. And thanks again for listening. If you've been inspired by John Joseph's plant-powered manifesto and want to figure out how you can get more plants into your diet, into your lifestyle, well, of course, pick up his book, Meat is for Pussies. That'll get you where you want to go. But if you're looking for a little bit more or you want

to kind of hear me talk about it, you can check out my online course, The Ultimate Guide to Plant Based Nutrition. It's about three hours of streaming video content with a ton of downloadable tools and resources and an online community to help you. If you're feeling stuck in your life, if you feel like you don't know what your passion is or you have a goal and you're having trouble trying to figure out how to execute on that goal, I have another course online. It's called The Art of Living with Purpose and it's all about setting goals and achieving them

and trying to unlock and unleash your best, most authentic self. Both of these courses can be found at mindbodygreen.com. On the upper menu at the top, there's a button that says courses, video courses. Click that. It's easy to find. Of course, go to richroll.com for all your plant-powered provisions. We got a brand new t-shirt out, the Run RRP shirt. It's in the style of the iconic classic Run DMC shirt, except it says Run RRP. This is a classic just black cotton t-shirt, but we're going to be doing tech tees for running soon. So that way you can go out running and you can support the

podcast. But I love this t-shirt. It's super groovy. And we just sent out an email blast last night. It's $10 off for a couple days. So go to richroll.com and check that out. That way you can proudly show your affiliation with the podcast, which I love. If you haven't subscribed to my newsletter already, go to richroll.com and subscribe there. That way you'll be the first to hear about

deals and sales on our products and also receive a weekly newsletter about the podcast and other health and nutrition and kind of fitness related stuff. So do that. Again, thanks for supporting the show for telling a friend for sharing it on social media. I love the Instagrams always tag me at rich roll or hashtag ritual or hashtag RRP. So keep that up. You can donate to the podcast at richroll.com. You can subscribe there by throwing us a couple bucks every week or every month or any dollar amount that you choose. And thank you so much for people that have done that. That just warms my heart like you cannot imagine. And as always, you can follow me on

Twitter and on Instagram. I'm at Rich Roll. I'm easy to find. I'm on Facebook. And now I've been Snapchatting. I'm going to start Snapchatting occasional meals and training sessions and other banalities of my life. So if Snapchat's your thing on Snapchat, you can find me at I am Rich Roll because somebody had already taken Rich Roll. All right.

That's it, you guys. Hope you enjoyed it. I'll be back with you next week. Tomorrow, Julie and I are renewing our vows, 11 years married, and we're going to go away for another little second, little honeymoon for a couple of days. But I'll be back at you next week. And until then, eat more plants. And in the words of John Joseph, peace, plants, and PMA, positive mental attitude. See you next week.