The Rich Roll Podcast - Fastest Ironman on North American Soil & What it Takes to Win Ironman Zurich 7 Years In a Row

Episode Date: September 26, 2013

Ronnie Schildknecht may not be a household name. But he should be. Why? because nobody in history has logged a faster Ironman on the soil of this continent faster than Ronnie. This is a guy who won Ironman Florida in 2011 in 7 hours and 59 minutes. An Ironman in under 8 hours! Just how fast is that? After swimming 2.4 miles in the ocean in 51 minutes, imagine getting on your bike and riding 112 miles at an average pace of almost 26mph for 4 hours and 19 minutes straight. Then imagine getting off your bike and running a steady 6 minute to 6:15 pace to clock a blazing 2:43 marathon. Not enough for you? When Ronnie won Ironman Zurich this summer, he became the only athlete to have won a single Ironman race seven years in a row consecutively. Beyond his incomprehensible athletic achievements, Ronnie is a man of soft-spoken disposition and considerate nature. A guy more comfortable letting others bask in the limelight while allowing his race results speak on his behalf. Refreshing. What I found most compelling is how Ronnie's training has evolved over the last few years to a protocol that dispenses with the knee-jerk conventional wisdom of high volume and places more emphasis on high intensity quality work; recovery; mental preparation & visualization; and a protracted taper beyond his previous comfort zone. Ronnie's evolution into the elite athlete he is today has required developing a greater understanding of — and confidence in — what specifically works for him — irrespective of the opinions of others, recommended training protocols, or the flavor of the month diet or training plan. What works for him.  Powerful. And simple. Yet something that nonetheless can be so elusive and difficult to embrace. For Ronnie, it didn't come easy at first — his sub-par Kona performances since his blazing 4th place in 2008 attributable to overtraining and not listening to what his body was telling him. Why? Because trusting one's instincts can prove incredibly difficult without extreme personal confidence and practiced mental discipline. A strong internal compass capable of muting the outside world. Healthy boundaries. And a profound sense of self. Whether you are an athlete yourself or just a fan, Ronnie's message of personal responsibility and self-awareness is powerful — principles that transcend sport — applicable to life wherever you find yourself. And I have no doubt that after listening to this interview, like me you'll be a Ronnie fan, ready to cheer him on to Ironman victory in Kona. I hope you enjoy the show! Rich

Welcome to episode 52 of the Rich Roll Podcast with professional Ironman athlete Ronnie Schilktknecht. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. I am Rich Roll. This is the Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. I am Rich Roll. This is the Rich Roll Podcast. If you're new to the show, what do we do here? Well, on a weekly basis, sometimes twice a week, I'm working towards twice a week, I bring to you the best and the brightest in health and fitness and wellness, paradigm busting minds and forward thinkers on the cutting edge of what's new to bring you the straight truth on how you can maximize your long-term sustainable wellness and fitness. So I've had doctors on the show, nutritionists, health experts, world-class athletes, entrepreneurs, and our subjects

range from the nitty gritty, geeking out on nutrition, the ins and outs of what's healthy and what's not, training techniques for athletes ranging from Ironman athletes and marathoners and ultra runners to MMA fighters and all different kinds of people, volleyball players. I try to bring to you a wide spectrum of people, not always people I always agree with, but all different kinds of personalities and perspectives so that I can give you one thing, which is a tremendous amount of information from which you can draw what works for you, what doesn't, and you can take what resonates with you, incorporate it into your life to improve your life, improve your health, improve your nutrition, improve your diet, improve your fitness so that you can tap into,

unlock and unleash your best, most authentic self. Who am I? I am a ultra distance triathlete turned podcaster. A little bit more podcasting lately and public speaking than training. So I'm going to have to find some balance with that. I've been traveling a lot. I've been on the road quite a bit doing public speaking engagements and I love it. I'm getting ready to go out on the road again. And it's my favorite thing to do to go out and connect with people and talk about my favorite subject, which is plant-based nutrition, athletic performance, and repairing our health. I'm also a best-selling author. I wrote a book called Finding Ultra. I'm a plant-based nutrition advocate, a lifestyle entrepreneur, a husband, and a father of four. That's if you guys are new.

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I have an athletic recovery post-workout supplement. We have our cookbook, Jai Seed, 77 pages of awesome recipes. It's the downloadable PDF, really simple, family-friendly fare that is delicious, that our kids love, and also all the recipes that have fueled me through my training. And that's just $9.99. So simple, simple, boom, done. And we have a meditation program, Jai Release. Meditation is very important. It's been a consistent topic on this podcast. I'm constantly singing the praises and the benefits of incorporating a consistent meditation practice into your life. And this is a great and easy way to get going. If you're new and you don't know anything about meditation, you just don't know how to start or what you're supposed to do.

This is a guided program. It's not, it's not, it's just a specific method. It's one method that kind of takes the guesswork out of it and, and gets you going. So even if you're a seasoned practiced meditator, maybe this is a new technique you might want to check out. It's a humming technique and it's a lot of fun. So anyway, uh, that's that I want to get into the show. Ronnie is, uh, my guest today, Ronnie Schulte connect, I believe is how you pronounce it properly. I was always saying Schultknecht, but I think I had it wrong. He corrected me at the end of the interview. Ronnie is a guy who is not necessarily a household name as a professional athlete,

but he's incredibly accomplished. He's a Swiss professional triathlete who had quite an astounding sort of ascension in the sport in a very short period of time. He went from being a guy who was a tennis player, a fairly accomplished tennis player, and a guy who had kind of messed about playing soccer and hockey and found his way into triathlon. And it's funny because most professional triathletes

have a background in swimming or track and field or cross country, or maybe even bicycle racing. Um, and he came at it from a completely different sort of sport background, um, and took to it like, uh, like a fish to water. And, uh, he's had some amazing results. He's one of the most accomplished athletes in a professional triathlon and he is the only Ironman athlete who has ever won one Ironman race in seven consecutive attempts. So he's won Ironman Switzerland seven years in a row. No other professional athlete, Ironman athlete has ever won one race seven years in a row consecutively. So that's quite an extraordinary accomplishment. So in Switzerland, everybody knows who this guy is. He's a big deal there. He lives outside Zurich and this Ironman Switzerland course is

essentially his backyard course and he's owned it. He's owned it like nobody's business for the better part of the last decade. He just won it for the seventh time this past it. He's owned it like nobody's business for the better part of the last decade. He just won it for the seventh time this past year. He also won Ironman South Africa this year. So he's won two Ironmans this year and his top finish at Kona, the Ironman World Championships was fourth in 2008. Since that year, he's had challenges trying to replicate that performance or take it to the next level. And what's interesting as he goes into the Ironman World Championships in Kona this year, 2013, is his changing perspective, his evolving perspective on training and how he's preparing

for this race and what has worked for him in the past, what hasn't, and what he's learned and what he's trying to do this year to take his game to a whole new level on the biggest stage in triathlon, which is the Ironman Kona World Championship. So it's fascinating for people who are endurance athletes or any kind of athletes to kind of tap into his brain and figure out what makes him tick and what's working for him in a training. In a training context, context was very interesting to me and I think you'll find it really interesting. And I think the takeaway message out of the whole thing

is just how important it is to take ownership of what you're doing, to make decisions for yourself, to learn what makes your body tick, what works for you and what doesn't, and to be an independent thinker about that, to not just adopt somebody else's program or do what somebody else says you should do, but to learn how to listen to yourself, to finally tune into what makes your body tick and to trust in that. And that's kind of been

his evolution. And it's really a powerful message and one that I think has a lot of value. So without further ado, let's just get into it, man. I really, really enjoyed sitting down with Ronnie. He's a very thoughtful, sort of gentle, quiet guy who's very introspective. He's not a guy who's trying to grab the limelight or be sensational or sort of, I don't know. He's not a guy who is trying to grab the spotlight, I suppose. I think he's much more, at least my sense is, he's much more comfortable letting his performance and his results speak for himself. So it was a treat that he would take the time to sit down and have this really fascinating conversation with me.

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Without further ado, let's just get into it. Ladies and gentlemen, Ronnie Schultz Connect. Schultz Connect. Schultz Connect? Schultz Connect. Schultz Connect. Anyway, enjoy. Enjoy. so the thing that's funny is that um usually when i do this i don't want to like kind of talk to the person ahead of time very much because then like it we talk about everything and then we get on the podcast and then there's nothing left to talk about or you have to retread or whatever but we

just had like a two-hour lunch yeah we're gonna have to go over it all again are you up for it yeah yeah i'm up for it of course yeah man well thank you uh for taking the time of course you're a busy guy and you've got a lot on your mind right now getting ready for kona yeah i'm not too busy because the tapering starts soon right it's good well good so I I will say to myself that I'm doing a good thing for you because I'm forcing you to sit down and rest yeah well that's it was never probably it's good how's the training going training is going really well I mean it has been going well all year so I'm really hopeful but it's like always in racing uh it's the day on the day you

need to perform it doesn't matter what you did before it's just that day that's the sport a little bit right instead so you finish the race you don't do so good and you go yeah but you should have seen me when i was training yes two weeks ago exactly right and that's what that's what i learned most from from these from this sports where you have to perform in one day because that's i think which is unusual to have as a job to be to have to perform in on three days you get and that's that's the hard part but also the nice part because i'm responsible for myself i can decide when i go train when i go rest and then of course the pressure gets up up up for the race and i'm responsible for it and i have to to show the results but it's just another way yeah maybe when you go every day to daytime job every day it's different you have to perform as

well every day but maybe i have another climax Like it's like really high pressure because it's only three days a year. And like you said, you can be so good three, four days before and then on the day you're not and then you get measured on the performance. Right. And not all of those things you have control over. You have you have control over certain things, but there are certain things that are out of your control, right? Exactly.

I mean, you have experience, you try to do, you know what worked, but every week is different. I mean, every day is different. You feel different. You have maybe, you do things which worked a few years before for other races, but it's always different your body is in another state of mind your mind is in another state of mind so so yeah you you have you can control a few things but not all i think that you said i read somewhere where you said an iron man is like

a life and within that day you live a life and there's the ups and the downs and the tiny victories and upsets and setbacks and all of that packed into that one experience of yes for for you eight hours for some people in 20 hours but but nonetheless uh you know the same roller coaster ride right yes uh that's that's true it's every Ironman I remember as a short life period it's like a short life like you have the ups and downs but the good thing is mostly you have a happy end I mean mostly because and that's makes you pride oh proud that's what makes you proud you go through the highs and lows it's like in life you you have to go through it you know and in life it

never ends and ironman is starts and it ends right so you have like you have this in the pocket that's nice but uh also in life you set goals of course and then you have it in the pocket but it always goes on and on and in racing it's the same yeah but uh yeah it's just very intense eight at nine hours that that ironman racing is just yeah it's it's like a little journey yeah for sure and uh i would say that you're having a pretty bang up year this year yeah you won ironman south africa yeah and that was in april what part of the year was that yeah it, it was in the spring, right? And then you followed it up with your seventh consecutive Ironman Switzerland win, right? Yeah. So, uh, I'm going to, before we do the interview, I do, I'll record like an intro. So everybody understands who you are. People might not have heard of you, but so they'll already know all that part, but just to kind of get into that

a little bit, I mean, you're the first person to win one Ironman race on seven consecutive years right yes so incredible and you're back your backyard course essentially right your hometown yeah indeed when I started this I mean I never thought that that would happen but I heard that many people say on other things like and then you do it and well it's unbelievable if I look back right now maybe it's not so real but maybe in a few years when I stop right with my career I actually did that yeah and you come from a really sort of unique place in terms of your evolution as an athlete and as a triathlete I mean you hear it's very common for people who get into triathlon who were cross country runners

or track and field runners or swimmers or what have you. And your background was tennis, soccer, and then I guess a little bit of ice hockey in there, but really tennis, right? That was your main sport growing up as a kid. I grew up as a kid playing soccer and tennis both and then off when i was nine ten i had to decide for one because i didn't have the time to do both because i wanted to either well in my dream become a soccer star or a pro well not a pro star there when i when you're young or tennis and then i decided for tennis but just as a kid growing up in Switzerland like who are I mean my only context is America where it's all about basketball and football so as a child growing up in Switzerland who are the sports idols that the kids are kind of idolizing is it soccer

players and tennis players is that yeah I think so you I was, what the thing was, my parents, they played tennis. So I became, I was on the court when I was three years old, not playing tennis, but because my mom played, so I was always around tennis. So in tennis by that time was a really popular sport. It was like what is now golf probably. Tennis was for, yeah, was really the sport growing a lot. And my idols were like Stefan Edberg. He was a Swedish guy, always played against Boris Becker. Also, I liked both, but then my mom said, you know, you have to be Stefan Edberg fan, because I didn't know which one I should decide. Why? What was the rationale behind that? I mean, Becker was really the guy.

Yeah, but Stefan Edbergs was so calm, always composed, the nicest guy on the court, just a surfing volley player, the best in the world. So I said, yeah, you're right. He's so, how do you say, sympathetic? Sympatico? Yeah, very. Yeah, and I was always, yeah, I was young,

so I was like, Beckerism was cool. Right, he was like a movie star at the time. I mean, in Germany, he was enormous. Yeah, Boris Becker with his win in Wimbledon when he was 17. But yeah, then I somehow, I don't know. She didn't say you have, but she was like, Stefan Edberg is a great guy.

And then I was like, oh yeah, actually I like Stefan Edberg. So you have like pictures of him on your wall, on your bedroom and stuff like that? I don't remember to be honest, but yeah, maybe one or two. But anyway, he's your guy, right guy right yes so you start playing tennis and you were pretty good right nationally ranked in Switzerland yeah I was I was good as a junior I mean you cannot tell too much when you're good as a junior because it means not much um but uh yeah I I played I played uh seriously I played every day I was in a team

I was coached by a former good Swiss player Roland Stadler is his name and he once was in the final of Gstaad, that's a Swiss tournament and he was my coach I was a good

not a big, a good talent with a good touch but I was missing a talent with a good touch, but I was missing a little bit the mental side of it. So talk about your epic match with Federer. Yeah, that was... How old were you? I was probably 14. No, I was 15. He was probably 13.

A little younger. Well, it was not so epic because I didn't know who is Federer. Right, well well at the time right only in retrospect he was just yeah in retrospect 6464 i always it's just a good gag you know the good fun to say like i played roger feather and i actually meet him i met him a few years ago just a few days before i'm in switzerland and then I told him hey we played and yeah it was really funny yeah really did he remember he didn't he didn't he meet too many guys I mean what was the context in which you were meeting him though did he know you were this great Ironman champion or

um yeah he went actually it was it was funny um uh a former manager of of him a girl she was a tennis player as well but she was doing ironman so she said hey i have that mercedes bike which roger won a mercedes bike mercedes bicycle yeah bicycle they did actually a bike and we need to come to the to the bike shop so can you be there just to say hi and i said sure i can and then he really showed up and with the mercedes with the with the mercedes bicycle and uh yeah i i think he never never going to use it but they had to adjust some gears it was like a 10 speed bike like a like a carbon frame bike with the mercedes logo on it or what i mean I don't remember the bike so much to be honest but not not a really good one but then we met and we chatted and uh and he was aware of it uh well

because I said oh yeah I'm racing on the weekend and and then I won and uh yeah I think he was aware of it and a few years later I I saw him again when he was playing tennis on the court. I was by accident in wintertime. I went on the court with a friend as well. And who's there playing? Roger Federer. Just hitting balls? Yes, hitting balls just before a tournament.

And I was just by accident going there. I haven't played for a long time. And I just went there for with my body to play a little bit and he was hi Ronnie how was Hawaii that's his first I was like I was embarrassed so it was so funny that he still remembered oh I saw you in right in Zurich and you won there and now you did Hawaii and you told me oh you want to go good in Hawaii but I was like oh no I sucked I was a good year yeah so it was just interesting well you're gonna have to go good in Hawaii, but I was like, oh no, I sucked. It wasn't a good year, yeah. So it was just interesting.

Well, you're going to have to redeem yourself in Hawaii this year. So when you run into them next, you can. I hope so, yeah. I mean, yeah, Hawaii is a very special place, special race. I want to get into that in a minute, but I want to go back to something you said a minute ago, which was that you felt like you were good technically as a tennis player, but that you were lacking the mental game.

So what do you mean by that? What do you think? You didn't have the focus? Very, maybe too much, not mature enough, angry when things didn't go my way uh cracking rackets all the time right uh screaming what were you so angry about oh just just competitive just competitive not playing how i wanted to just didn't have the composure maybe in like i said in training i was always very good in training because no pressure. But in the tennis matches, when it counts, I couldn't play what I can, normally can.

But like I said, the same like you can training and feel good and then in the race you don't perform. And that was similar in tennis. Like being able to have the composure to perform the way you do in training when it matters most when the pressure is on. Yes I couldn't handle that not at all. But you seem to have been able to master that in a new way in a new sport. Yes. Right so what do you think the evolution of maturing mentally has been for you as an athlete. Yeah, exactly. I think it helped me because this experience, I knew that this is not the way you're going to be successful. This was a bad, not a bad, it was one. I didn't regret it.

That's how I was. I was young. I think a lot of young tennis players are like this. Roger was like that. Look at him now or look at him the last 10 years. If you looked at him about when he was 12 he was throwing around records and stuff right so but it's a part of your life and you learn from it and uh so yeah i in ironman it's the strengths of mine right yeah so it's interesting you took something that was your achilles heel or your weakness in tennis and made that your strength yeah in your sport I like that so so let's get into how triathlon began so you're pursuing

tennis and you take it to this certain level but then you realize well I'm not going to exceed this certain glass ceiling that I'm yeah bumping up against here yeah exactly I you know I I got always the support from my parents but when you're young 15 16 and your parents drive you around with the car to these tournaments and then i always felt like i need to win for them i wanted to win too but i wanted to make them proud and and i was always a little yeah like i couldn't play what i wanted and that drove me from the sport because and then when I lost my parents were not so happy about it and I didn't like the feeling after the matches right going back in the car quiet I so like tennis was their thing right so that you feel like they were

projecting expectations on you or they I not that they projected there but they were just one they just wanted the best for me and they did they expressed it maybe in the wrong way because they were more disappointed maybe as disappointed or even more than i was right uh and and i and i wanted to be good for them and so yeah i just couldn't play what i wanted and right that that uh was not fun anymore then you know it was and i was still young so i was not ready for it for that i guess it was not meant to be do you ever feel like if you started later or you had the mental discipline that you have now when you were playing that you could have been something different

than what you were or you could have pursued that to a different level? Or do you not think about it? I don't know how far, I never, I don't, sometimes I think when I have the mental game, the mental game I have now, if I would have had it there, I would have made it further. But

I think there's many who had the same talent as I and Roger is one of a billion. So I think even when I had it, I didn't know you we will never know but of course I would have made it further but I think not enough to be in the top hundred right in the world I don't think so right but we will never know but so when so when does triathlon start finding its way into your life? Very funny how it came. I did a language stay in San Diego, just for language. And I met these two Brazilian guys. One was Juliano Terrell.

He's now a coach. He's actually a friend, a coach, also helping me with a lot here in training now for the Ironman Kona. And then Fabio Carvalho, he's still a night shoe athlete, trying to qualify for Rio. And I met these guys and they were so chilled and good. I loved the lifestyle they had. They were working in a coffee shop part-time

and the rest they were doing triathlon. And I was like, this is so cool because I came from tennis and ice hockey and this lifestyle and they were so fit. And I really admired that. How old were you? I was, I think I was, what age you have to be to drink alcohol 21 so I just turned

21 yeah I can't remember that's how you're remembering it you're like I had some good times in San Diego yeah no actually yeah I think I just turned 21 so I remember that one yeah so then I there, I don't know, I got hooked and I bought my first bike at Nitro, a Cannondale, a yellow Cannondale, very bright. How long were you supposed to stay in San Diego? Three months. Okay. So, you meet these guys and you're like, I'm going to get a bike. Yes. Yes. I was before I met the guy in Switzerland who did triathlon because I trained a little bit and I was already, I knew what triathlon was, but I got really hooked when I met these guys and

thought this is, these are cool guys, nice guys and good, good lifestyle. I like it. And, and I had school from nine to 12 or one and always before I went to the gym and in downtown San Diego actually I was and on top they had a swimming pool so I went swimming there and and then I went to school and then often I went for a ride Wow that's how it started so is it one of those things where from your first pedal stroke you showed like some aptitude for this or how did it, you know, I mean, when you were beginning, you were thinking I'm going to race this and turn this into something

or I'm just having fun. It was just having fun. I think it was more, of course, I'm a competitive person and I thought of racing, but not professional or anything because I just started that, I loved it. I was, I can remember, I just, I couldn't swim. I was not a swimmer, you know, I never swam really. So I just had fun and I went running and.

So how are you, hold on a second. So if you're in downtown San Diego, that's where you're living and studying and stuff. So how are you like meeting these guys that are way up in North County, like hanging out around Nitro? Yeah, I had a car, a little car, and I drove up there all the time.

Gotcha. And I drove up there with my bike, I bought it, and then I went riding with them. Yeah, that's how it was. And then I even met Juergen Sack. He was by the time, he was the man i mean then yeah so he was preparing for hawaii but he had an accident that year so he couldn't and actually that year i i flew to hawaii like in in that language stay i i flew to hawaii to

watch the race oh wow kona yeah cool because that yeah. Cool. Because that guy I met in Switzerland, he was a triathlete and he said, hey, if you're in San Diego there, let's go and have a look in Kona. Right, so this has got to be what, like 2000? 2000. 2000, right. And for people that are listening

who maybe don't know that much about triathlon, you have to understand that San Diego and particularly particularly north county around del mar and encinitas in this area was a real and continues to be one of the hotbeds of the sport and people would come from all over the world the professionals to train in this area particularly that kind of encinitas area and a lot of germans so many so many sort of Germans. And I don't know how many Swiss were there, but enough Germans, enough professional Ironman triathlete Germans were living and training there that the Saturday morning ride,

the loop, the sort of famous loop, the group ride every Saturday morning was called the German ride or the German loop, right? Yeah, I don't even remember that. But I was not going on these rides because I was just into the triathlon. So you just fell, you were kind of fell into this right place, right time and interested.

Yeah, it was just, I saw, then I went watching Kona and I was so amazed because it was blowing. It was humid. It was hot hot and that year in 2000 it was blowing some guys off the off the queen k there you're right down the queen k on the big island and somewhere really almost blowing off right like coming down from javi or yes right no actually in waikoloa it it's where the helicopters are. And it was unbelievable. And I was just amazed.

I couldn't imagine ever doing this. But I was amazed. Actually, they looked so fit. They looked healthy. It's all I actually thought, that's what I want to be. It was about healthy, fun. And while the suffering, I didn't see that much in that moment. You would soon learn more about that. Yeah, soon. about healthy fun and well the suffering i didn't see that much in that moment you would you would

soon learn more about that yeah so so so you so you return from that trip and and you know do you start making changes in your life like how does this start to happen for you yeah i remember i started i started doing triathlon like uh of course we have some cold winters when I came back I came back I think in January so I turned to where you live so living outside Zurich at the time yeah living outside Zurich in January it's still wintertime but I mean you can always go in the gym but as soon as I got summer I I started my I I started training and I did my first competitions. And so is it one of those things where you won your first race? I think I won my first race, maybe it was a really short one, already in 2001.

Wow. Because in 2002, I already did my first Ironman. So literally two years from seeing this for the first time, you're straight off into Ironman. And when you went back to Zurich, are you working then? Are you in school still? Yes, I was doing, in Europe you do apprenticeship at the insurance company.

So I still worked for an insurance company by then. And yeah, I mean, I was not professional or anything. I was just, yeah, doing it for fun. So you win your first race. And then what was your first Ironman? It was Ironman Florida. Sorry, it was in 2003. Ironman Florida.

The first Ironman I did. I got 8th, 7th place in 8 hours 53 7th place in your first Ironman that's unbelievable and you're 23, 24? 23

and were you professional at that time? Had you turned pro? I turned already pro because I was in the national team for duathlon. I joined the national team after I started from like, after San Diego, I did my first races duathlon and I won the under 23 championships. Just like that? Just like that. And then I was... Had you been, I mean, when you were playing tennis, were you doing endurance running or anything like that? Like, how do you attribute

such a rapid, such, you know, crazy success right from the get-go? The thing was, I played tennis and also ice hockey and inline hockey.

I don't know, inline hockey is just on the roller. Right. And I was always known with my teammates for my awesome uh stamina because normally getting tired huh just you're just not getting tired yes because normally in

hockey you do like two minutes and then you go out you you have like uh four blocks so and i always could do doubles you know like i could always stay on the ice so they these guys were always saying what you have a lung i don't know what you're doing. So I knew I had this big engine. But it's surprising you didn't find yourself in cross-country skiing or something like that. That would be much more Swiss. Yes, I know.

No, I was more into hockey and actually weight training. I was heavy. Yeah, you're a big guy 200 power yeah I don't know in killing kilos was about 92 kilo so that's about 200 almost 200 pounds Wow that's big yes what do you weigh now now I'm 170 170 170 that's still pretty big yeah yeah that's that's still national Ironman yeah yeah I was always a bigger guy. But still, you were 40 pounds heavier.

Yeah. I can't even picture that. Yeah, it was... I mean, I went to the gym five times a week, or let's say four. Right. Played ice hockey, and not professionally, like I said,

but just had fun with the team sports and the playing. Yeah. So I never did really endurance sports but you had this natural natural or it yeah naturally gifted I guess just always yeah and so when you did I mean did you lose all that weight really quickly like when you got seventh in that first Ironman were you already down to 170 or were you still doing that as a big guy I mean it takes years to lose all that muscle mass right I was still a big guy I was still

190 mm-hmm I would say it shed a bit but then it stopped for a long time and the last few pounds came off only like the last six seven years yeah Mike but in the beginning I was still a big guy. Right. Yeah, and I had to also to train really differently to other guys who were in the sport longer. I couldn't take these volume stuff and the running, the impact for a big guy,

you cannot run like 80 miles a week. Right. We talked a lot about that at lunch. Yeah, and how that's changed over the years. So, you know, why don't we just take this opportunity to talk about that now? I mean, the kind of conventional wisdom

in Ironman or in, you know, ultra distance endurance, Ironman distance stuff is you got to lay a huge endurance base. You got to put in a lot of miles, like a lot of just aerobic, you know, saddle time on the bike and a lot of long runs where you're just getting acclimated to that pounding. So you can get used to the idea of being out on a race course for nine, 10, 11,

12, 13, 14 hours, right. Depending upon your aptitude. And that's the way most people train. And a lot of people have success with that but I think there's now some new kind of science coming into proper training and people are experimenting with different ways of doing it and you have a really unique perspective but I want to kind of paint the picture

and how you've kind of evolved to this place from what you were doing previously to kind of what you do now yeah i mean of course when i came into the sport you first look what others do i mean when you have no experience you and that was always a good thing i I always love to listen. And then what I learned later was to have your own opinion. You listen and then you take the best things out for you. Because as more experienced you do yourself, you know where to pick from. But you know it's working for you. And when you start, you just, okay, tell me what to do.

You don't know. And did you have a coach from the very beginning? Not really. I was in the national team, so I went to training camp with the national team. And you can imagine I tried to do the same miles as they did. Right. There are probably a lot of cross-country running type guys, right?

Yeah, it was all triathlon. It was triathlon it was triathlon so uh these guys were swimming in the morning of course one and a half one and a half hours and then four hour bike five hour bike and then one hour 30 run that's what for me three days it was okay after one week i was sick i mean i was done i was grounded right and and I was like what's I'm not made for this I mean I'm fast but I I struggle if I do too much you know and and people said yeah you need to lose weight you're too heavy you're still 190 pounds you're too too heavy but uh and then i even tried to

lose weight but it's not so easy to to to lose muscle mass train like you never before yeah you can drop some some fat you know off your gut or whatever but if you have big shoulders and you know that doesn't just that doesn't happen very quickly no matter what you're doing yeah and then also the swimming i i'm still not the best swimmer and I I'm not when you can imagine you play hockey you're like you it's different than technique swimming you have to be sleek and in the water and I'm not really flexible as well and all that came into play and I mean that took a lot of time to transform but you're still trying to do it though you're like jamming this round peg into a square hole like trying to make

yourself do what everyone else doing if I just keep doing it eventually like I'll get used to it but I the good thing always was I listened to my body so when I and in the beginning I was so tired I I had to stop. So I didn't even have to listen to my body because my body will, will, will, will told me this so clear, these signs that you couldn't avoid them. So I got really, Oh, I was, I had a hard time in the beginning because when you're not so successful, maybe just wanting to get successful, you you go what people say so um also

you cannot just do things your way and and then you if you don't win then people are going to criticize you because yeah you're not doing it our way so in the beginning of course i was not the best from the start it's impossible impossible, but I was a talent, I was fast when I was rested, always, because I had raw speed. Did you ever think that maybe Ironman wouldn't be your distance though and that you should do ITU and focus on the shorter races? Yeah, but that was never a question for me because I was in Hawaii and I was hooked from that mentality and I was not a

swimmer so I knew you have to swim really fast those guys are really fast yeah and also I was not so a fan of the drafting bike drafting thing because my strength was the bike I loved riding my bike around that was where I was strong. And actually, I always loved to run, although I was a big guy. And they always said, like, you will never run fast unless you shred these pounds. But I actually ran pretty fast, 10Ks with 195 pounds. Yeah. So what was your 10K at 195? Like I ran like 32, 30. And what was your,

when you got seventh in that first Ironman, you weighed what, 190 then? Yeah, maybe about, what's that, about 86 kilo. Yeah, probably. That's about that. Yeah. And what was your marathon time there?

It was 306. 306. Yeah. On the end of an Ironman. Yes. And now several years later and 20 pounds lighter nine years later your best marathon time in an iron man is 243 yeah 243 which is insane right that was an iron man florida yeah in 2011 right yeah it was a I mean it was a cool day cooler day was was perfect perfect day also for to go sub 8 but yeah I mean that's pretty quick for still a big guy like me it's it's quick for I don't care how big or small yeah that's true for anybody and for people that are

listening it's it's almost beyond comprehension so ronnie um as i mentioned in the intro to this uh set the fastest iron man time ever run ever performed on in north america at iron man floor in 2011 and you ducked under eight hours at 759 right yeah i was like a 419 bike split or something like that like 419 right or yeah a 419 bike split and then a 243 marathon but it was funny i i would never believe i could run that that fast because i was already feeling really tired but it's it's unbelievable that's what i always uh find so how you how what's what's you you're able to do you know in training you think oh it's impossible to run I'm happy to run 30 minutes off the bike but in racing your mental and everything the mental focus and everything and you can do things you would never believe right and that's

the message that I'm always trying to put out and that's you, the idea behind this podcast is that we're all victims of our own limitations, right? Whether they're mental or physical or just patterns that we're used to. And if anything, you know, we all have the power to transcend those circumstances and change. You know, sometimes you got to be in pain to change, but that's a choice, you know? And to hear you, because it's easy for somebody like me or somebody who's listening to hear that and go, well, he's just a freak, you know? Like who can go under eight hours in an Ironman?

This guy is just, he's an alien, you know, he's from a different planet. But for you to express like that, you know, you didn't think that that was possible and that how tired you were getting off the bike and then your ability to still pull that out and do that. I mean, it's remarkable yeah it was uh yeah i think it's it's unbelievable what you really can do where yeah when you i mean and it wasn't that many years from you like you know traveling to

san diego and saying this looks cool like wow at these guys. And then here you are like the fastest guy to ever do that race in this continent. You know, it's crazy. It was crazy. And the journey who got me there, like, so was also, I learned a lot about myself, especially about my body, what's good for my body. And I think my success, I'm successful because I always listened to my body what's good for my body and I think my success I I I'm successful because

I always listen to my body as well I mean in the beginning I told you that I was struggling in in these beginning years but um and then I learned that uh I can only uh I mean of course you need to do a certain training regime but I always try to to listen to my body, even though it was not mainstream and what what triathletes normally would do in volume. But I said, look, this is my body, this is how I work. And as more successful I got, as more confidence I got in my training. And and I, I think every experience

yeah you learn from every experience if good or bad and uh and yeah that that race in uh in Florida um it's also funny because just four weeks before I dropped out of Hawaii and I was like oh I'm not doing the right things I'm not ticking the boxes but sometimes what happened in what happened in Hawaii that year well I think for Hawaii I always because it's the the biggest race in our sport it's the best guys it's the hardest course I mean the course is the hardest because it's so hot and so humid and so windy um and you just want to be over prepared maybe in your mind but the over prepared it's already a word is over prepared it's not good you want to be prepared the best you can be but if you want it so bad you try to you try to do good in a good way but then maybe it's too much right so i always did a little bit too much the last few weeks you showed up over trained

mental part, most important part for me in Ironman racing you have to be fresh mentally and so what do you do to make sure that you're fresh mentally what are the actual things on a daily basis that you do to take care of that for me it's I'm performing the best

if I if I'm around my family around my friends it's not what I do in training it's what I do off training it's what me what relaxes me that's I feel like my recovery is better and just like the positive attitude around like just like positive energy um that's what keeps me fresh and of course um in my particular way not maybe a bit less training than others that doesn't mean i train less hard i think when i train i train really hard i mean for me i'd go on the limits but in the volume in the i i go a little go with less with less right and that's something that you learned kind of the hard way over the years of yes you know to kind of harken back and pick up where we were talking about before um and i think it takes a really strong like sense of yourself and kind of mental constitution

to be able to not just realize that, but to put your foot down and say, this is not working for me. I know this seems to work for everyone else, or this is what everyone is telling me that I should do, but I'm going to go over here and try something different. And, you know, I just remember as being a swimmer in college, and this is like the late 80s at Stanford, and the kind of conventional wisdom in swimming at the time was volume, like tons of volume. Like we would swim during Christmas training season,

like the hard part of the year of training-wise, we're going like 20,000 meters a day, you know, like insane amounts of swimming for races that are 44 seconds long, you know, like really short stuff. Right. And, and I would just do it, you know, I'm, I actually do well with volume, like volume works for me, but I understand it doesn't not for everybody. And there was one guy, um, my friend, John Moffitt, who I had on the podcast and the audio got screwed up. So I'm going to have to have him on again, but he, he had been the world record holder on the hundred breaststroke, big guy, like really big, strong guy. And he was just like, I'm not doing this, you know? And I thought like, who is he to say, what's what? Like,

this is what we're doing. Come on. Why isn't he not showing up for workout? And he's like, I can't do that kind of work. Like, and I just remember as an 18 year old looking at that and going, I can't believe he has the balls to stand up to the coach or to the program or to everything we're all being told that we need to do and for him to be able to understand his body and what he needed to be a champion and say, I have to stop. I can't. This is not in service to my goals.

So I can only imagine for you. I mean, the only reason I raised that is just because the analogy being like i understand how difficult it's hard to understand how hard it must have been to buck that tradition you know when there's so much momentum behind it and everybody's saying do this do this do this yes that's exactly right what you say because uh that was so hard because it would have been easier to go with the flow. Or I don't know, just do it and maybe be not. Well, just say, well, then I'm just screwed and I'm not successful.

But you're also taking a big risk. Because if you don't perform, then everyone's going to point at you. And say, we tried to tell you. Why didn't you listen to us? And there I was lucky that I was from the start successful with what I did. I mean, quite successful. And there I was lucky that I was from the start successful with what I did. Well, I guess it is, yeah. Quite successful. But I was, so I was always like, yeah.

Unbelievably, like a almost 200 pound hockey player, tennis player guy is like killing it, you know, in a very short period of time. So you're doing, obviously you're doing something right. So in the beginning, people were still saying, yeah, you need need to do more you need to lose weight whatever but then when you get more successful people start to say oh what you do is actually works actually and then I'm saying no no no it works for me I'm not saying this but people start to you know it's always when you're successful everything is as good you do but that's not true I do a lot of things wrong still. That doesn't mean just because I'm successful, I'm doing everything right.

That brings up a really interesting and I think really important thing. I get this a lot and I'm sure you do all the time, like everywhere you go. What do you eat before a workout? What do you eat after a workout? What do you put in your bottles on the bike? And, you know, what's your secret recipe for how you prepare to perform the way you do as if there is some, you're, you're holding onto some secret that if you just told them that it would work for them as well, or that they would suddenly transform themselves. And what I always say is it's like, look, it's not, you know, it's not what I'm doing. It's not, you know, I'm not the guru. You have to take personal responsibility and ownership of that.

And that requires the hard work of developing a relationship with yourself and understanding how your body works, what works, what doesn't. You have to be aware. You have to be really conscious of how you're feeling and what's going on and whether you journal that or you just become hyper vigilant

about making those connections between whether it's the foods you're eating and whether you journal that or you just become hyper-vigilant about making those connections between whether it's the foods you're eating and how you're doing or the workouts that you're doing and how that's affecting you and sleep and all these variables, you have your own equation set. You have your own algorithm that's going to work for you and you've got to figure that out. There's no way around figuring that out for yourself.

Exactly. Right? Exactly. And I sometimes say, yeah, listen to your body got to figure that out there's no way around figuring that out for yourself exactly right exactly and i sometimes say yeah listen to your body and then people look at me a little strange and i'm like i really mean it go get up in the morning listen how do i feel speak with yourself that's not what i do sometimes you know because you have to learn your body. Like your body can tell you a lot, but if you don't listen to it, well, then it can't tell you anything. So it's very hard to...

Or if you're not treating your body right, if you're not eating right, if you're not sleeping right, if you're stressed with your job, then you just kind of go through your day feeling lousy all the time, and then you just become kind of numb to that. So I think when you start to make improvements here and there and you start to notice changes that's when you have to i mean because you can disassociate you know you can disconnect and not think about it it's actually work or you have to make a conscious effort to do that right you have to make a decision as well right um yeah i

mean it's uh sometimes uh maybe like i get up in the morning and i have this a hard day but i'm really i'm i still feel this race uh this this this training from yesterday and then i say i i go on my bike and i ride and i have planned a six hour ride, but I feel really bad and turn around after two hours, but no bad feelings. Right, not feeling guilty. I think that's the big thing, like beating yourself up like you failed or something. Yes, I struggled for all my career.

I mean, this was an involvement, like I had to learn this. Because it's like you give up, but you cannot do this all the time I mean that's year after year after year yeah but you sometimes you got to do this six hour rides I mean it's just sometimes I think it decides if your success what you're not doing because we are we endurance athletes are extreme guys and with the volume and with the training but where do you really draw the line where is the perfect amount for you individually who says 30 hours who says 40 who says not 20 i mean and maybe one week it's the perf like the perfect hours you should train is maybe 20 because you didn't sleep

well you you have maybe other stress that's what i mean it's i have a plan of course with but it's it's very malleable flex you're flexible depending on how you feel and don't some people they they drive on or they get their confidence from doing a plan. Oh, I did the plan. My race didn't go well, but I did the plan. And I was never like this. I was never a plan guy. I was like, oh, I didn't.

I was more like, oh, I didn't train this. That's why I got successful, you know, because here I was tired. And then I decided not to do this training. And I'm really proud of that and that's well that's how i that's my perspective which is good yeah because i know what that feels like to go you know like to try to get up and do a workout and be too tired and be and then mope home feeling like you know what's wrong with me as opposed to well this is my body's giving me a message it's not good or bad you're the one who's placing a value judgment on that you can you can decide that it's actually good like hey my body's tired that means i've been stressing it it's time to you get stronger when you rest and you allow your body to repair

itself so allow yourself to get repaired and then you'll be better yes right of course i mean there are different ways to look at it but that's how i work how i work how my mental uh yeah how i work it's very healthy. I mean, if it was just a factor of how much you're training, then the guy who wins Ironman every year would be the guy who's training 90 hours a week. It would be the guy who's training the most. Obviously, that's not what it is.

It's the guy who trains the smartest for his body, for his physics, for his mental, for everything. Because you always have to see it as a whole. Also, maybe I'm not the guy to, and that maybe I'm not happy to train 40 hours as well maybe that's not my like your friend the swimmer he said I can't do it but that doesn't mean he's less successful if he trains a bit less because it's right that's then it's perfect for him in his in his always taking ownership of his preparation

as opposed to abdicating that to a coach or some program without really thinking about what is really best for him. Yeah, exactly. So I think that's important. And I think it's interesting to hear, and we talked more about it at lunch, but kind of your evolution from the volume methodology or philosophy and figuring out

that that didn't work for you. And then really not just embracing this idea of, of listening to your body, but, but really the idea of the rest and the taper. And I think that that's something that gets really not enough. We all talk about recovery and all of that, but like for you to really properly taper, I mean, your body needs a long time to rest and it takes a lot of mental fortitude to relax into that and not panic. And in swimming, you know, we used to train like eight months straight, every day, hard, hard, hard.

It was crazy, right? And then two week taper where you literally like do almost nothing for two weeks and you just lay on a couch for two weeks and you would feel like amazing like sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't you kind of rolled the dice your whole season was about this one taper but when we were at lunch and you were talking about some of your best races have been where you like where it were after like a couple weeks after a race that didn't go so well and then you just kind of relaxed for a couple weeks exactly released the pressure didn't really train very hard and then surprised yourself with like these crazy results and yeah i think that's a testament

i want you to talk a little bit about that but i think it's a testament to really just how much recovery you need when you're punishing your body that much. It takes a long time for you to resuscitate yourself. Yeah, I had to learn this the hard way. Like I said, I trained really hard for Hawaii, too close as well. And I learned from my body and maybe for others as well. This is in 2011, right? 11, yeah.

And so just for context, in 2008, you were fourth at the Kona Ironman World Championship. So then what happened in 2009 and 2010? 2009, I dropped out. 10, I got 14th in 2009. 10, also 16th, I think. And 11, I dropped out. So, I mean, not really knowing you very well but just hearing that it sounds to me i would imagine or i'd be willing to venture that after getting fourth

in 2008 you're like hey man like i'm i could be like on top here so then the following year you double down you're training super hard and you show up and you're just like all the cards on the table, but you were just over-trained and flat. Yeah, I thought, hey, I'm fourth with that training I'm doing? What if I train harder? Yeah, what if I train harder? I fell into that. Rather than doing what got you to get fourth.

Exactly. Yeah. That's how it was because as as more uh training i did as more accustomed i got to training and i could handle more volume and before my body was always telling me more oh you're tired because i was really much tired so after my fourth in in hawaii i was like oh i'm fourth four minutes off the win greg alexander won um man this is this this could be i mean i could win next year right so i did everything and i had these three years where i just overdid it i still won my ironman switzerland's um but it was just too much in the end of the season I think I was burned

I was mentally burned but also physically because my tapering was always not enough not enough time and in 2011 I had this new experience I trained again really hard almost until

two weeks to the race to Kona and I felt really flat leading up raced flat and i have to had to give up uh in in the run and i was disappointed but i immediately decided hey you know what in four weeks time there is an ironman ironman florida going to race it but you know what i'm just have fun yeah just have fun afterthought yeah i went i went to austin i trained my two hours a day still an hour or two a day but that's for for a pro athlete that's really not much i had a shiner book every night actually or two

no i was really in a relaxed state yeah i have to say i did 70.3 two weeks later in austin and then so but before that and after that like it was just relaxed having a good time like yeah hanging out just the last four four four uh weeks i i ran three times a week i bike three times a week and i swim three three times a week so that's like really low and eating eating lunch with rip esselstyn yeah exactly rips big bowl yes about that yeah yeah whole foods i always enjoy that's that's great no and and and then i showed up there and uh and you're like but you didn't put it that much pressure on yourself right this was just at iron man i mean still an iron man yeah i'm still a professional yeah i i but it Yeah, I. But it's not Kona.

No, it's not Kona. But I wanted a little bit redemption or not redemption, but like just, I wanted to show that I was in good form for myself. So I wanted, deep down, I wanted to win. But it's not like I put, it's not Kona, like you said. It's never the pressure of Kona. Right, so you're running two or three times a week during this period during this lead up 45 minutes 45 minutes right okay

yeah because and you're going what like how many hours a week of training oh maybe the last four weeks i did maybe i would say 12 hours of training wow Wow. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. Also with the tapering for the 70.3. Right. I mean, then I was even less. And I was flat after Hawaii. Still I did the race.

So one week I almost did nothing. I actually had vacation with my former girlfriend, now wife, the week just after Hawaii. And then I went to Austin, one week tapering for the race and then after the race two weeks tapering so actually the last four weeks were well really not much I haven't actually after Hawaii I haven't ridden my bike for a week because I was so and then I decided to go to Austin and decided to race Florida right that's unbelievable when you look back it's like and then you go yeah you go 759 yes and so what do you like when you're running and you're like the last couple miles of that run like what's

going through your mind like how is this happening or oh i was a switch getting flicked like oh i understand now they there was oh you mean how i really like when it when you clued into you like you know why am I succeeding here and why haven't I been succeeding in Hawaii the last couple of years yeah I did there in the race I didn't ask myself this question I was just enjoying the moment I was just like man this is cool flying 243 flying 350 like or well I don't know five five minute a mile or five you're going you're going like four minute case or yeah like three three fifty actually yeah so it was just amazing and and yeah but then after the race I realized huh something is wrong here I have to change something mm-hmm

but I didn't change it for four12 too much actually. Right. Because you always try to- Then you get caught up in- Yes, you get caught up still. What are other people doing? Exactly, you train with other people, which is great. I mean, 2012, I trained with Chris McCormick, but then also I was in Sedona and the altitude was not so my thing, I guess.

And also, yeah, I had to learn that I need to do my own thing. Maybe not, it's nice to train with good athletes, makes you strong, but it's better, I think, early in the year. For the Hawaii prep, you need to do exactly what you need. Well, it's so easy to get caught up in what everybody else is doing.

Why is he suddenly faster than i am today and then you get insecure or you know i just noticed that like if you're riding in a group ride like you're chatting with people you're going hard and then you're going easy or you're in a peloton where you know the wind is being broken for you and so you look down at your power meter and you realize you're either riding too hard or too easy based on what you set out for your workout that day like it becomes a very it's fun and it's refreshing but it becomes very unfocused and at times i think if you make that a repetitive pattern it becomes counterproductive to your goals because you're not you're not actually using that time to do the thing that you know that you need to do to achieve your goal exactly

sometimes for the fun of it is great and i don't i don't say it was not good but like i said everybody works different um some need a lot of training even leading up to the race and i'm the guy who needs a little less and uh yeah so so you have to kind of hide out from people for a while a little bit that's what i did this year that's what you're doing right now really curious how that turns out but uh it's nice to be around friends still riding together but just it's about my program it's not about it's just about me not like right if they want to come with you that's fine but they're gonna have to go as fast or as slow as you're going exactly and it's a plan and it's sometimes you can still have fun it's always important i think to have don't forget about the fun in training even if you train for a goal you know sometimes you get too

too serious about it right like serious is good but you still if you're for if you're you relax don't have fun anymore, it's no good. And so where have you been doing your running around here? Do you do any of the trails or are you keeping it all on the pavement? I kept it a lot on the pavement, but I know some nice trails around here as well. I don't know the names. Chesborough? Chesborough, exactly.

Yeah, that's a good one. So that's one but i have been on the on the road a lot because i'm in san diego i was the week before i ran only in the lagoon there it's right only on the on sand like almost our trails so here i wanted to do two weeks of good pavement running well right around in this neighborhood where you are it's great because it's kind of that same uh kind of camber of pavement where yes it's pretty flat but there's those gradual ups and downs it's pretty much like hawaii so i have been lapping here yeah and it's not not too crowded with the cars and and giuliano helped me with the nutrition and stuff and that's really helpful as well right so so i want to talk a little bit about how he informs your training and and you know how you guys get together and decide how you're gonna prepare like your schedule in terms of

what your workouts are gonna be like how how does that relationship work well actually we sat together we haven't worked we started this year he was always a good friend like I said I met I met him in 2000 in San Diego, and we always have been friends since then, which is quite cool as well. Is he now like, hey man, I was the triathlete, now you're the champion, like what's going on? I was supposed to be the guy.

Yeah, he did one Ironman, but he was like, oh, it's too hard, but he still does Olympic distance pretty fast, actually. But he's not the guy who wanted to go professional on Ironman, but he wins some local races in San Diego. So, yeah, he has a lot of experience as well, and he's coaching as well. And he's a good friend, and I always like to talk to him,

and I always liked his view of things. He understood my mentality. We sat together in February when I came to racing Los Cabos, dropped out in Los Cabos actually, and then went doing a 70.3 Oceanside. Two weeks later, I won South Africa. Same thing happened to me in Hawaii and then Florida. It was exactly four weeks and I won in South Africa. Same thing happened to me in Hawaii and then Florida. It was exactly four weeks and I won in South Africa. So here you have, again, you've had this experience that's telling you like this is a better way for you to go.

Yes, exactly. And there we had that talk and he said, Ronnie, you have to come back to your roots. Like, you know, remind yourself. What was it? Why were you so strong and uh and uh i said yeah you're right i i got lost a little bit i i was i got lost in uh yeah what ought to do like i have to do more what can i do to it's hard to you just need someone to be paying attention to

pull you back because it's so i can't imagine not getting caught up in oh my god it's Kona like I really should get out and do another workout or yeah you know it's not you need a guy like that it's like no you know you're not doing that and mostly in our society is like oh you do less oh that's great that's like oh wow you know it's our society like it's it's never like oh less is better it's not i'm it's it's like more work more harder work and it's it's hard to to really um believe in that way i'm like it is true but i also think that there's like a trend happening right now like you like like these um this this idea of like life hacks like what are the shortcuts that we can take to achieve our goals?

Like how can I put in, like Tim Ferriss, he's written a couple of books that are kind of on this theme of like, how can I get 80% of the results by putting in 20% of the work or like where am I wasting time? And I think that there's been some thought put into that

in terms of training where you have like guys who are trying to train for marathons with a CrossFit approach and only training, like never doing the long run or whatever. And, you know, I don't, I don't have any experience with that. Like I'm not in a position to judge whether that's good or bad or whatever. And I even had, you know, a guy on the podcast to talk about it. Some people seem to be doing well with that, but's more the point of hey let's look at this like are we doing it the best way like let's try a few other things and see what that works and then

having the like we were talking about before the wherewithal to say i'm doing it this way which is different yeah and then we had that talk and i was like yeah you're right but i need somebody to to keep me on that on that way so he said okay let's work together for this year and see how that works and he sent me the programs and I'm not a program type you know I I always will give him the feedback like oh I didn't do that and I didn't like I mean I'm still like yeah but that's he said you say, you know, you have to tell me when you have to adjust because a coach can never know you as good.

I like as, even if he knows me very well, but I live in Switzerland and he lives in San Diego. So we talked a lot, but we always adjust a little bit, but actually it was the first program I did close to 90%. And that's a lot for me because he knew me so well and we talked about it of course and when he do it we do it together it's not like he just writes the plan it's like you know that's I think that would be good and then and he puts it in a plan but it's it was good for

me it was something new as well and you before I was a little yeah more maybe self yeah just yeah i lost myself a little bit right and uh and and this year was is the most successful year i i have and also i mean it's so exciting you won ironman south africa you won your seventh consecutive ironman switzerland and so you're going into Kona with a lot of positive momentum yeah and you've got a guy who's making sure that you're doing the things that you did that made you successful in those crazy races that you did and so it's good man it's lining up right kept me real and all the way I'll lead up and he's always it's good it's very good it's good to have good uh people around you who

believe in you and who uh yeah really uh no it's still a team i mean it's an individual sport but you can't do it without a team you can't perform at your level without people in your corner who are you know helping you out yeah yeah you have to yeah and uh just yeah you're you're lonely alone enough in the ironman itself right yeah and i think it's nice to to have that support and i mean i have doubts as well like everybody else you know is do i am i doing too less now you know but i cannot do anything wrong because i tried the the other stuff. Right. The volume. Right.

I mean, after 2008, how many more conas do you have to do the way you were doing it before? Exactly. Right? Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about how you mentally approach the races from, I know that you're like big into like visualization and putting thought and time into rehearsing mentally what you're gonna do. So I wanna hear a little bit about that. So I think that's really important.

Yeah. Yeah, I really visualize, try to visualize the whole race, all the problems who could turn up during the race. And for me, most important is to have an answer for every possible situation happening. Because what I experienced the worst is if you start arguing with yourself during the race, not having a solution. This solution can be really just like an easy one, like not even a good one but when you when you agreed with it before like let's say if i have

a moment where i feel really bad i just say it goes away it will be good you know and when i decide that before like if i go through that before the race and then in the race i i already have the solution kind of oh it always well it's not an unexpected thing right because there's always something that's going to come up in a race like it's never going to go perfectly right never yeah so when something happens to not freak out or yes stress out about it like you said it's a day it's a short it's a short life you know there's the ups and the downs and Exactly. And I was reading about and watching the video from this past, the seventh win at Ironman Switzerland.

And you're in the run and you're having, or was it at the end of the bike? Or was it early in the run when you started to cramp? You started to cramp. And I mean, you could easily, it was like 95 degrees out. You could easily say, well, that's it. I mean, if you cramp up and you can't move. So how do you mentally kind of work your way through that and have faith that like if you keep going,

that you can get to the other side of that? It's a mix between positive experience and yeah, just never give up kind of thinking and because when I got to my fourth place in Hawaii I was really close on giving up during the bike because I had one of these moments but like a deep one so and you weren't in fourth when you got off the bike no I were like well 12 12th. You were like in 12th. Yeah, exactly. Like you worked your way up in the run. Yes.

And so I had these moments there where I wanted to throw my bike out on the lava fields in Hawaii. And then I turned this race around for good. And that experience really helped me for the future races that it's never over. And it always turns out good it's like a happy end and i love happy ends in in movies it's just it's it's going to be like don't don't lose this this belief it and because i i experienced it myself like i wouldn't have put a scent on me on in in this Ironman in Hawaii in 2008 not a scent in this moment

on the lava fields and then I turn it and I run up to fourth place it was one of the most unbelievable feeling of my life and from then on I said Ronnie never give up on yourself so that was one

really who set me up for the rest of my career like an experience so yeah again Ironman Switzerland this year I had these cramps I was for a moment I was out of control I was angry that's okay but don't what's also important I mean did it was it bad enough that you had to stop running and stretch, or did it just hinder your gait? It was only on the bike. Oh, it was only on the bike, okay. And I couldn't pedal anymore,

because every time it was the inside... Right, inside of your leg. Inside tight. So I couldn't pedal anymore, and I had to really stretch. And the guy, the main main guy Jan van Berkel overtook me and I for about five minutes I had to stretch and uh right because he had he'd come out of the water ahead of you and then you passed him and then you're having these cramps and then he passes you again exactly I passed him I was actually in cruise control and then uh actually

one bottle fell to the ground and i was for too long without water maybe for 20 minutes i was without water with it was 97 degrees whatever and and that was uh i was too much in in this heat and uh yeah i paid it for it for crap with cramps and but after two minutes of uh yeah feeling bad was like, oh, it's over. Then I was like, okay, now what are you going to do? Now you take some salt, you try to drink, you try to stretch and just keep going. Just keep going. Just to have the composure to not panic.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, exactly. And even if you panic, it's okay. I think it's also important to to accept not being angry on yourself you know like why did i react like this it's like what happened happened now calm down just ride and you i think for me i never thought that with your mental how you can actually how, how it affects the body.

How you can, like, if you don't panic, if you take it easy, these cramps started to go away. Because I was calm. I tried to calm down. And when you are panicking, your body is panicking as well. Right. You seize up. Yeah. Your heart rate escalates.

Your blood pressure. Everything. Yeah. Exactly. You're in a lockdown. It's what I learned as as well because i had a lot of cramps before so i learned that when you relax it's the best for cramps like relax it's the opposite you want to do but it's relaxed and it comes from the from the from from the head to right and yeah then it came back and i kept going um and actually felt good again quite good tired but good and uh yeah i was still in the yeah yeah term you passed von burkel and then he uh

and then he ended up dropping out right yeah he dropped out he was over maybe dehydrated overheated and I was putting myself with ice and everything I couldn't find but yeah again that was a moment there where it was a almost over but yeah you can always turn it around for good in our manner I think in your life generally sometimes you feel like I cannot make it right it's over but it's it's never over until it's right and when you're racing do you how much uh energy do you put into looking at who the other contenders are that you're going to be butting heads against I mean do you, do you get all caught up in, oh, well, what's this guy's FTP?

And where am I strategizing around all that? Or do you just focus on, I'm just going to do my thing and my race? Yeah, no. I mean, I'm interested in all these thresholds and powers and stuff, but I don't even know who's on the start list. My wife always tells me, oh, this guy.

And I always say, oh, I don't want to know. I don't care. And my friends are like, oh, no, this guy is on the start list. I'm like, okay, I don't care at all. I just want to... All right, so we're not going to have a big conversation about all the people that you're thinking about racing in Kona. No, no, really, I have no...

Big respect for everybody. I really... I have enough to do with myself, I think. I have more construction work to do with myself, my mind, my body. And if you waste the energy and time to see how good they are, they're good anyway. These are the best. But I have to make sure I'm the best on that day. And if I can put the best performance on that day

and there's still one faster, then I congratulate him. I mean, I have no, I mean, So you're not getting caught up in rivalries and any of that kind of stuff. I'm not, also I can't drive on anger. I'm more driving on, I am so, I'm a harmony, harmony, I like harmony yeah it's not that i need it but i i

perform very good if also in the family it's harmony i'm not good if there is any stress around you know in the family so i raise the best if because i i have i put energy from that yeah yeah and everyone's different that way i mean some people need that like they almost want that conflict like that motivates them or gets them out of bed in the morning or whatever i mean i'm like you like i don't you know it's not about that you know it's about your own personal performance but that's interesting um on the subject of like watts and you know all this kind of stuff like I'm interested in your thoughts about you know particularly for like the amateur triathletes that are out there uh that are training with power interested in training with power like how like how caught up do you get in you know staring at your power meter numbers when you're training or how important are those numbers

and informing you know where how you feel about where you're at or how important are those numbers in informing you know where how you feel about where you're at and where you need to be and you know is there like a balance of like do you just sometimes turn it off or like how does that work with you because you see you hear the gamut of like like maca like he doesn't really look at it like he doesn't pay attention to it that much and then there's other guys who are just they're just super geeked out on the attack yeah like jordan is is the other extreme and well and he's an engineer and that's the way his mind works and that's what works for him I mean where do you fall in that like spectrum I would say I fall more in

Jordan's spectrum but maybe not I don't know him how I don't know him that well that I know how extreme he is or how perfect like, but I, I really like to see my watts and what I think is we, I think a lot of, of, of age groupers, but also pros, uh, ride a bit too hard, maybe always in training. And I find what's good for actually not going too hard. See, sometimes I find it the other way around like if i'm riding and i'm like i gotta get i have to make sure that my average watts are yeah at this place and if i don't do that then i'm not getting better and i i put like this pressure on myself sometimes and that

is good sometimes but i think you know it's hard for me to just turn it off and and go out and enjoy a nice aerobic ride and not worry about it well it depends on your goal if you say look i don't want to ride over 200 watts today that's the goal i mean because it's an easy ride so it's not about putting out i mean you could put out right now 300 watts but it's it's really if you have goal, I like it not to ride too hard because a lot of the time I go with my bodies and I let them go in the hills because they have no feeling for, uh, and I'm like, Hey, you're doing 300 plus watts. It's we're doing an easy ride, but Oh, I just want to go with the flow. I mean, sometimes I like that too. And I don't watch it. But if I really want to do a hard training the other day

and I always go in these over 300 watts the day before, if I do an easy ride, this is affecting my really important ride when I want to ride 400 watts for my 15 minutes. Right, if you're going too hard on the easy day. Yes. Right. That's a huge lesson, I think,

that people don't pay enough attention to, which is, yeah, they go too hard on the easy day, but then that means that they're not going to be able to go as hard as they need to on the hard day. And so you really, you think you're doing more or doing something better for yourself, but you're actually undercutting your performance. And that's something I learned again this year as well with giuliano

we talked about that he said oh you always ride a bit too hard and it's true and because then i couldn't do the quality work and now i'm with my quality work it's it improved a lot because i'm riding these easy rides easy and uh and i go really i can go really hard on these hard intervals and it makes a big difference because otherwise you just train something in between like you train maybe like yeah like and then you you you don't you don't stimulate stimulus for the body anymore exactly that's how you plateau really like you're in you're not going easy enough on the easy days and you're not going hard enough on the hard days you reach a certain level of proficiency but then you're you're never able to kind of have a breakthrough from that right

and for racing i use the same i know my watts i can raise about that's a little bit of problem but i i can raise an ironman between 300 and 330 watts average so i always try to on to stay on 330 so it's again actually uh but do you ever feel like well if i'm doing that then i'm overlooking the possibility that maybe i could have a breakthrough race you know what i mean like like because you're you're putting a limit on yourself you say i know i need to ride at 3 30 i can't go above 330. yeah but what if you're actually capable of more yeah like if you were just going on feel yeah But it never happened. Well, that's also good.

I mean, on a really good day, maybe I ride 330. And the second half, I ride 340. Okay, but mostly it's like that I can't hold. It's still, mostly it's like, yeah, it's having a little bit left in the tank iron man is a long day right and yeah you're right about conserving and and yes being really responsible with how you're dispensing your energy and i just know by by by by my uh experience that i think I've never rode faster the second half than the first so so my pacing was always it was always right or always a bit too much in the first in the beginning right but never overly conservative never overly conservative yeah exactly so on that on that subject I mean

what do you you know what do you see when you go to these races um like what are some of the things that you observe amateur athletes doing where they're if and you're going god why are they doing that like if they would just do it like this they could without training any harder than they're doing like i could see this person being so much better you know just in watching them like the day like for example the day before the race you see people out like hammering on their bike or something like you know what i mean like little simple things that are driven by fear or insecurity or just lack of experience yeah i see that a lot i mean in kona is special yeah people are all out peacocks, like trying to show you how fit they are.

I can't tell it otherwise. I've never seen it. But the thing is in Zurich, I'm always at my home, so I don't see what people actually do. But in Kona, you're in Olli Drive. And I saw this guy one time, and he was doing these intervals two days before in the run. And I was like, man, he's up there with Greg tomorrow, I think.

Either that or... So sometimes it's funny to watch. I'm sure like the pros, you guys like joke amongst each other. Like, look at that guy. Why is that guy doing that? Yeah, I mean, they are all great athletes. I mean, but... I mean, anybody who makes it to Kona is doing something right.

It's so difficult. So it's not that I... Maybe I say, hey, why is he doing this? Of course, to my friend. Maybe I say, hey, he's screwing his race, you know, and they put a lot of effort in it and maybe they don't know, you know, it's not actually not to laugh because it's maybe then after the race, he's like, oh, I don't know what happened. So, but yeah, okay. A laugh or two you have for sure, because there are some who overdo it,

but, you know, even the pros do it, you know. Also, we do the mistakes. But we can laugh about ourselves as well a bit, I think. Yeah. Maybe. Well, you have to. Yeah, you have to, I think. I did so many mistakes.

Also, trying new things before a race, new nutrition or whatever. I did all the mistakes. I mean, even as a pro. And it happens to me sometimes now. What does your race day nutrition program look like? Race day nutrition, I... You mean in the breakfast? What do you have for breakfast?

What's in your bottles? It's all right, man, I'm a vegan, it's okay. You can in your bottles? Yeah, I mean, I... It's all right, man. I'm a vegan. It's okay. You can tell me what you eat. I'm really afraid. It's all right. No, I put a steak in the mixer.

You put a steak in the Vitamix until it's liquefied and that's all. You drink the blood of an ox. Oh, my God. No, no. No, it's... I like bread and butter and I like jelly. Bread and butter and lots of blocks of cheese. Yeah, no, in the morning, oatmeal.

I like it because it's hot and it gives me energy. That's my pre-raised meal with a banana. And some bread with jam, not gluten-free, but now I think I try gluten-free. Just try it. Yeah, I do. You don't have to, though. I want to try it.

We can still be friends. It's so good that you say that. I'm much more relaxed. Yeah, right. No, no, just kidding. And then I have a good nutrition sponsor. Actually, the name is sponsor which i i drink about one liter per hour it's called sponsor it's called a sponsor yeah

not with the o with the e in the end um they have great great stuff and uh yeah i put about is that like an electrolyte drink or is that like a sugar maltodextrin? Yeah, maltodextrin. Different sugar. And about 80, 90 gram or about that. About 100 gram an hour. Every hour about one liter in Kona. In other races it's eight, I don't know in ounces, sorry. But about one of these bottles right let's say that way yeah and uh you know why it's a bit harder in switzerland in iran and switzerland i have you have personal nutrition all the time which makes it much easier but you know why how we turn around oh so you can have your own stuff out on the course yeah there oh interesting yeah very how does that like what would you do there that you can't do in Hawaii?

Yeah, for example, I start with only one bottle because I can get one an hour later. So up the hill, I don't have to have this extra weight. I mean, I really, I specialized on planning this. It's like a little logistics plan, how you do it. And of course, you're always perfectly nutrient like well it happened that it fell out this time but next time i need a backup plan plan when when just make sure jonathan toka brings you all the salt stick yeah next time when i have cramps we can't have you having cramps no that's a no-go but uh i hope it's not happening again in kona but uh yeah that's about and what i take gels but in the run like every like three three an hour and but you know why it's a lot

about cooling cooling down right as much as possible and yeah staying staying cool. And so you're heading out there in like a week? Yeah, in about a week. I will be there Friday. I mean Friday, so that's eight days before the race. Right, so you have, it's like a good amount of time to acclimate to the heat and the humidity, but not too long that you get stale or... Yeah, that was the idea. I was in San Diego few few weeks before and it

was quite hot and humid actually so I think that was good that I actually experienced some some some hot weather some humid weather and here in Westlake it's a bit drier it's a bit hotter but drier and yeah I had to not a good not good experience is being too long on the island i get a little bit tired and the humidity starts to catch up to you i think so so seven days i think will be good good amount of time to be there right because i won't be training a lot that's for sure last year also i did too many runs i probably do when will you when will you play that play this there I'm not sure yet oh I might well then I don't tell you well either like I'm

thinking about well here's the thing I was gonna either put it up like this week or next week or I could wait until like right before Ironman that would be good that's not good. You don't like that? No, no. Oh, because you don't want to tell me anything. I can put this up after the race. Yeah, no, no.

I can do that. No, I will not be training alone. Well, they do their own stuff anyway. They don't listen to this. Nobody listens to this anyway. Yeah, I heard. It's just me and you. One million already?

It's just me and you, man. Come on. Of course. already. It's just me and you, man. Come on. Of course. No, like I said, I will really try to be fresh. That's my main goal this year, to be really fresh on the start line, fresh and happy, ready to go. That's the main goal. Do you know Mike Rouse? I heard of him. He works in the fitness industry. Anyway, every year on his birthday,

he runs the number of miles of his birthday, right? And now he's like 50, I don't know exact age, 55 or something like that. But he's in Hawaii every year, so he does it on a leahy. So he's going to run, do this like 55 mile run or whatever. So I was going to say, maybe you should go out and do that with him right before the race.

Yeah, that's a good idea, actually. I think that would be the best free paper I ever did. The best thing for you to do, yeah. I think that's a very good idea. This is my coaching advice to you. Can I get coached by you then? Yeah, exactly. We talk about it for next year.

Of course. So we'll wrap it up because you've been gracious with your time. But I did want to ask you one thing. You have your first child being born this winter. Congratulations on that. Thank you. And so I guess my question is, does that change how you think about your training and your racing?

How does that impact kind of what you're doing yeah i think i'm making i'm thinking a lot about it actually at the moment and i think it will change a lot because uh racing is important this is my job but having a child i mean it's i think it's as i haven't experienced it, so I will experience it. But I think I will do things differently. I don't want to be away too long from the family, if possible, take the family to the training or I go not as far. And yeah, so I think focus will change a lot as a family father.

I mean, until now, I just could do what I wanted and which was nice but now I have responsibility as well yeah I'm not scared but I'm I had a lot of respect because yeah it's a little little just changes your perspective. Yes. It's not about you anymore. It's about somebody else who is relying on you. Right. And yeah, I felt also like, oh, can I go really on the edge? You know, like, can I push myself still? Because sometimes you go when it's in races and it's hot and sometimes you are out of the comfort zone and you don't really know. Well, maybe I just, maybe I push it too far.

I mean, and can I still do that? Because now I have somebody relying on me. Like, that's just my fault, but I guess it's not going to be an issue. But I was just thinking about that. Like, yeah, are you still pushing over that limit? You know, when I was 20, 19, I was like, just, I don't care. Just go. Go, go, go.

Right. Yeah, I think it's, I don't feel, I was like just I don't care just go go go go right yeah I think it's I don't feel I mean just as somebody who has kids like I don't feel it in like how hard I push myself in a workout but I but I think about it a lot or I feel it when I'm out cycling and you know I'm riding where there's a lot of traffic or there's I don't I never like bomb descents or I don't do any of that kind of stuff that i would do when i was younger just for fun you know it's like well why am i going why am i pinning this like you know downhill you know what's the point of that like doesn't make any sense i already do yeah like the bombing down it makes no sense at all unless in races sometimes you've got to go i mean but even then you then you can. You think about like pro cyclists, like in the Tour de France or like descending these alpine climbs and, you know, it's pouring rain

and, you know, they have kids. Like, you know, Jens Voigt, like how many kids does he have? Four, five, six kids or something crazy like that. And he's just killing it out there. Like, how do you maintain that kind of mental focus to do that? I think sometimes when they crash badly they have some problems as well to go right get back again yeah yeah i could not imagine that but i think yeah you can get used to that as well i think i mean there was a did you read um

jordan uh rap uh had another not not incredibly serious but he had another crash on PCH a couple weeks, several weeks ago, I don't know, four weeks ago or something like that. I heard something. Yeah, and it was like, he's okay. He's got some road rash or something like that. It wasn't anything serious, that serious, but just having had that other crash

and now being a father and having, he wrote a blog post about his thoughts about it that i thought was really kind of introspective and touching and interesting i haven't uh read it but yeah i'm going to read it i heard about the big accident but this one i i didn't uh yeah i just one tweet i saw and right yeah but uh yeah i mean it will be a new experience for sure and uh yeah already now now, actually, because it's already. Yeah, it's it's there. It's percolating. It's incubating. Is your wife going to be in Hawaii?

No, she we decided not to get the stress for the flight, you know, like it's it's 12 hour flight and then another four. And it's better she's at home and she's still working at home. And but. Yeah, it's better she's at home and she's still working at home and but yeah it's good like that she was with me all the time with daughter races but maybe I don't know next year if it works don't know I have to inform myself a lot now as a future daddy yeah with a lot of things children bring prosperity yeah you just become I don't know. It's awesome, man.

I'm excited for you. It's cool. So after Kona, are you taking a break or do you have more racing? You're going to go back to Florida or what's going on? No, definitely a break. Of the baby. Yes. I want to do a longer break.

I feel like I started my season very early in January already. I did a Half Iron iron man 70.3 and my season has been long with yeah two iron man three with hawaii so uh i hope it goes good and i am really confident but i i won't be stretching my season any longer like other years because i think like uh you need to listen to your body and give it give it the rest and then you can attack again right yeah cool man yeah all right well thanks for doing this well thanks thanks for this really interesting interview interesting questions very unusual it's unusual why is it unusual well no no I'm

not saying I'm a second sound bite yeah no just like good uh good inside questions yeah well thanks for taking the time yeah i'm excited for the to cheer for you in hawaii man it's gonna be cool yeah thank you it was nice to i mean the best part of this podcast is i get to sit down you know with cool people like yourself and get to know them and talk to them so i appreciate it man thank you same same to you thanks yeah all right cool so for people that are keen on jumping on the Ronnie bandwagon they can find you on Twitter you're at Ronnie Schildknecht S-C-H Ron Schildknecht actually it's only Ron Ron yeah Ron Schildknecht that's a very hard name i have to change it for you guys guys

like they can't spell it okay just spell it oh r-o-n-s-c-h-i-l-d-k-n-e-c-h-t there you go and you got a facebook page right i got a facebook page i run and uh i call myself Iron. Iron? Yeah. Yeah, it was a good idea. I like that. Yeah, just matched. And then you have a website? Yeah, I have a website as well. That's ronnieschildknecht.ch. And yeah, you all can join me and follow me.

Cool. My journey. Yeah, excellent. All right, man. Well, best of luck. Thanks for your time. Yeah, thanks again, man. Thanks. Cheers. All right. Cool. My journey. Yeah, excellent. All right, man. Well, best of luck. Thanks for your time. Yeah, thanks again, man. Thanks.

Cheers. All right. Peace. Plants. Thank you.