The Rich Roll Podcast - From Corporate Lawyer to Ambassador of Sweat & Swagger — How to Undo Ordinary and Tell Your Own Story

Episode Date: August 11, 2014

I like to think this show sparks that fire by seeking out and sharing the stories of those who fan my flames. A mixed bag of inspiration and education. A diversity of in-depth conversations: life experiences, incredible personal stories, tales of transformation and a wealth of information to light your personal path towards maximum life satisfaction. A grab-bag toolbox to help you escape the status quo doldrums of life, raise your personal vibration and simply live better. At the end of the day, it's all about story. Others sharing theirs so you can begin to reframe, tell and live a better story of yourself. It’s easy to keep doing what you’re doing, propelled by a story you tell yourself about yourself, in whatever shape or form that may take. Life has a momentum like that. A particular gestalt. The relentless pressures and priorities of daily life take over and before we even consciously realize it, we fall victim to a rut we justify under the rubric of routine. The rut is easy. It's the default imprimatur of social acceptance. Do what you're told. Don't ask questions. Shut up and keep shopping. Play that video game. Escape. And numb out your latent voice; your inner potential; and the world at large. To escape this prison we must first change the story. This begins with the inside work. Investigate what makes you the only you there is. Develop a sense of self that renders your intuition not just reliable, but the only true compass directing your path. Walk through the fear that constrains the emergence of the true self. Unleash the courage to blaze your own path. And execute. Because talk is cheap. And action is everything. Doing this is hard. Maybe the hardest thing you will ever do, it's like a salmon swimming upstream. Or setting sail in stormy seas in a canoe without a paddle. But let's flip our perspective and view this path through a new pair of glasses. Not from a perspective of struggle and hardship but instead as more of a letting go. Rather than fight, surrender. Rather than climb a mountain, let's fall into who you really are. A natural process as effortless as a snake shedding an old skin. This is what faith is all about. It's about understanding that that shed skin will soon be replaced with a new one that fits more perfectly. It's about being comfortable that that perilous, oar-less canoe will somehow self-orient to flow in the current of your true life purpose. And the idea that when the sea settles, you will find yourself no longer in that rut, but effortlessly gliding in a special, secret current with your name on it. The eddy of your personal life purpose if you will. I realize of course that this all sounds counter-intuitive, if not downright weird. Letting go to ascend? Surrendering for the win? Hippy-dippy new-age crap! I get it. I used to feel the same. It took me years to really understand that it is the firm grip — attachment to ideas and behaviors — that keeps us stuck. And that freedom comes when we let go and release that grip and our attachment to behaviors and patterns and beliefs we mistakenly presume comprise our identity. These are truths. Spiritual laws if you will. Incredibly powerful tools I have used to get and stay sober; change my life path; and become more fully myself. Keys I continue to rely on daily to constantly challenge myself to grow and expand my horizons. This is all a long way of saying that we all have the power to just start telling a new story about ourselves. This is what Robin Arzón is all about.

Welcome to the Rich Roll Podcast, Episode 99, with Robin Arzon. The Rich Roll Podcast. What's up, freethinkers of the new millennium? My name is Rich Roll. Welcome to my podcast. I like to think of this show as a mixed bag of inspiration and education, a diversity of in-depth conversations, life experiences, incredible personal stories, tales of transformation, and a wealth of information to light your personal path towards maximum life satisfaction,

to help you escape the status quo doldrums of life, raise your personal vibration so that we can simply live and be better. How do we do this? Well, for my part, on a weekly basis, I sit down with some of the most interesting forward-thinking paradigm exploding minds I can find. Some you've likely heard of, others maybe you haven't. Nonetheless, all people rattling the status quo in fitness, athleticism, creativity, diet, nutrition, art, entrepreneurship, personal growth, and spirituality. The people that inspire and intrigue me, the people that are making things happen, pushing the envelope, and here to provide you with the tools, the knowledge, the experience, and the inspiration you need to discover, uncover, unlock, and unleash your best, most authentic self. All I ask is that you take this journey with me. Find what resonates with you. Discard the rest. Play with the tools at work. Use it and them to get out of your own personal comfort zone.

The comfort zone is not our friend, people, and we all have one. And then implement these tools to change, to improve, to grow, to share with others, and ultimately to serve. Because that's what we're here on earth to do, people, serve our fellow man. If you want to truly be happy, truly be satisfied with your life, get into service, help other people. That is the key, I'm telling you. In any event, I know it's easy to keep doing what you're doing. Life has a momentum like that. It has this particular gestalt, I would say. The rut is easy.

It is the imprimatur of social acceptance to do what you're told, to shut up, to be a good consumer, go to the mall, drive your car around, buy stuff, go to the movies, play video games, eat fast food. But doing the inside work, finding out what makes you the only you there is, investing in intuition, blazing your own path. These things are daunting. In your mind, they might be the hardest thing you can imagine doing, like a salmon swimming upstream or setting sail in a stormy sea in a canoe without a paddle. But I want to flip the equation here. I want to shift our perspective on this and look at it through a new pair of glasses. Because in truth, this path can be the opposite of daunting and difficult when we perceive it as less about struggle and more about letting go, like a shedding of an old skin. When we make it less about fighting and more about letting go, like a shedding of an old skin. When we make it less about fighting

and more about surrender, a falling into who you really are, a letting go. And this is what faith is all about. Being comfortable that that perilous canoe will somehow self-orient itself to flow in the current of your true life purpose. And when the sea settles, you find yourself no longer in that rut, but riding a current effortlessly with your name on it, the eddy of your personal life purpose, if you will. It's like stage diving when you know someone's going to catch you. And I realized this sounds weird. It sounds counterintuitive. It sounds flaky or maybe a little bit gonna catch you. And I realized this sounds weird. It sounds counterintuitive. It sounds flaky or maybe a little bit new agey. And I completely get that

because it took me years to really understand this principle, let alone figure out how to implement it in my own life. This idea of letting go to ascend, this idea that surrender doesn't mean giving up, but the idea that surrender can actually be the path to victory. The idea that releasing rather than holding on is the way to become more fully expressed. But I'm telling you that these are truths. They're like spiritual laws and they're incredibly powerful. And today's guest is a fantastic example of this,

my friend, Robin Arzon. So who's Robin? A self-proclaimed ambassador of sweat, Robin is the inspirational powerhouse behind Shut Up and Run, her blog. I love that name. She's a New York City-based urban running force of nature. She's an ultra marathoner, including that time she ran five marathons in five days across Utah. She's a running coach, a cycling instructor, and she's a brand ambassador, consultant, and social media producer for some of the biggest brands out there, brands like Nike, for some of the biggest brands out there, brands like Nike and I believe Reebok and others.

And now she's a magazine publisher even. She founded the newly released Undo magazine, which can be found worldwide in places like Urban Outfitters. Hailing from Cuban and Puerto Rican parents, I would call Robin a modern day warrior. She's a powerhouse of female empowerment who never sacrifices style for function. She totally brings the bling and the swagger and the fashion and the fun back into sweating and running and fitness with a vivacious energy and a personal style that's totally unique, totally her own, quintessentially urban, completely New York City, totally hip,

essentially urban, completely New York City, totally hip, impossibly infectious, and completely inclusive, fueled by the ethos that there is no finish line. Robin's life mission is to redefine, reform, and rethink possibility through movement. And now she's being faced with a new challenge that's requiring her to up her ante. She's recently been diagnosed with type one diabetes, completely out of the blue. And rather than fold or buckle, she's taking her fight and her swagger to a completely new level of focus and service and inspiration to others. But what's really amazing about Robin is that Robin's life wasn't always like this. Just two years ago, she was toiling away in a corporate law firm. A magna cum laude graduate of NYU in Villanova School of Law,

she was a very well-compensated corporate lawyer at one of the world's biggest and most prestigious law firms. 80-hour work weeks, the suit, the high heels, the hoity-toity launches, the whole shebang. And it would have been really easy for her to spend the rest of her days just hammering huge paychecks and living large and comfortably in New York City. Of course, I personally relate to this aspect of her story because it wasn't that many years ago that I was living a similar existence. But much like my story, this was not Robin's path for her future. It was not her passion. And she didn't know much about what she wanted out of her life, but she did know one thing.

And that is that she loved to run. And she had one motto, we become what we commit to. A near death experience several years prior occurred in her life, and she was held hostage at gunpoint. It's an incredibly nerve-wracking, harrowing story that we get into in the podcast, but this really helped put the preciousness of life into proper perspective for Robin and ultimately gave her the courage to take this leap of faith into the void. And that's exactly what she did two years ago. Much like last week's guest, Evan Rock, and we continue on a theme here, Robin just up and walked out on her secure and prosperous and socially accepted career and just let it all go. To step into the unknown of completely new life without a roadmap beyond her intuition, her passion, her hustle, and her swagger to step into that canoe without a paddle and let that current take her with only one item on her to-do

list. Do epic shit. Full-time dreamer, part-time hustler. How did Robin, to coin her hashtag, part-time hustler. How did Robin, to coin her hashtag, undo ordinary? Let's step into her world and find out. I'm so happy to have Robin in my life, and I'm super excited to share her story with you guys here today. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment, an experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care.

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What's happening, Robin? I'm good. Hot New York City. I know. I love i love it though you know what i like i like uh i like how it's really warm in the mornings and at night like you don't you know everyone thinks sunny california you know especially in the summer but it gets chilly at night and i like to work out early in the morning and i like being warm you know i hate i hate being cold so like getting up early and running when it's like nice and warm out, that's like a treat. So I don't mind it at all. It's kind of like, um, a misty, moist blanket welcoming you on a morning run.

It's not a dry heat. Definitely not. No, you know, but last time I was in New York, it was February and it was that massive snowstorm. Oh yeah. And you're not a snowcat. I'm digging it. So I'm having a good time. I get so juiced from the energy of the city and, uh, yeah, you're somebody who puts out a lot of that energy. You know what I mean? New York is my, is a, I say my New York is my boyfriend. Is it? Yeah. I mean, you know, it's like I have real

relationships of course, but for the law, for as long as I can remember, New York has been a real player in my story. And, you know, I can't imagine you living anywhere else. I don't think it would work. I know. I mean, it's like I travel. I was just recently in India with my sister and my mom. And I mean, people would just stop and take photos of my tattoos. And I just don't think, I mean, of course I dress conservatively in the areas that required it, but it, you know, it was still very much, um, a visual conversation I was having with, uh, with a lot of these folks. So that was interesting. Well, you've definitely, you've definitely found your niche in merging your personal brand of fashion with fitness in an, in a very New York kind of way. You know what I mean?

That's the goal. Like, yeah, you have like a whole thing going on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the rings don't come off even when I know. Yeah. Like on your Instagram, which is always inspiring, by the way, your messages and your Instagram. So if anybody is out there who just needs like a smile for their day, just follow her

on Instagram and it will, it will definitely help in that regard. Awesome. Thank you. Um, but I was wondering with all the bracelets, like if I'm, if I'm like out doing stuff all the time, like the, like I would, I would feel like I have to take them all off or they start to get gnarly. So I'm like, how does she wear all those bracelets and, and be like sweating all the time? I don't know. Like, I mean, I got, I guess they're like rubber, most of them. Yeah. Well these, and then, I mean, I do have a pretty big cuff that I'm actually not wearing now. And I did like a 20 mile run the other day and it was like giving me a rash. And I'm like, all right, there are clearly limits to this whole sweat with swagger thing.

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, the rings don't come off. Like the rings are. Rings are always on. 24-7. Oh, and you got the freaking gold plated fuel band. Yeah. The special one.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's actually dead right now, but, um, yeah, I'm a, I'm a fuel girl. So are you working with Nike right now? What's the, like, I'm trying to get a grip on like the whole, how it all works in your life. I mean, I've done a lot of different, I've worked with Nike in a lot of different capacities. So I've worked with them on the digital side. I used to work in a team running their, the Nike women's social media. I've worked as talent as a fitness model So I've worked with them on the digital side. I used to work in a team running the Nike Women's Social Media. I've worked as talent, as a fitness model. I've worked as a running coach. They've sent me to sort of host workouts and stuff internationally. But it's just, I'm a friend of the brand. It's not like an official relationship. It's just on a case-by-case basis. Right. They need to do like the whole Robin look, you know, like the whole line. Have you helped them design a tire?

I haven't helped them design anything, but I did help them style their running looks for the 2014 season. That's cool. So, I mean, it's a conversation that have sort of been dropping those seeds, but I would absolutely love, love to come out with the Robin OYC merchandise. I mean, something that is functional but has the swagger. So much fitness stuff. Even now, even as it's becoming more and more popular and more lifestyle, so to speak, in terms of sweating in a lot of different capacities. It's still, it's not up to what I. What it could be. Yeah.

Not how you can really rock it it's and i'll tell you this though it's a lot better with the women's stuff than it is with the guys stuff oh yeah you guys are stuck with like navy and black it's like does every pair of running shorts have to be navy or black and go down to your knees totally like what's the deal and like and even like looking for like a shirt that you know, like a tech T-shirt that I can wear running. It's black or it's like neon yellow or it's white and that's it. And obviously that's what sells. It's not like a mistake or an accident or laziness.

Like they know most guys are, you know, up the middle. They don't want to go too far in either direction. But like I want a little swagger. You know what I mean? Well, you have it, Rich. Now just, now you just need, now you just need the gear. I know. So you gotta, you gotta come up with it, right? Yeah, I do. Just do your own, do your own thing.

I know. And it's funny because I was actually, I had the designs and everything for a leggings line I was going to launch last year. And I was using my own savings from law days. And I was like, this is it. I'm going to press go. And then I realized really quickly that I was using my own savings from law days. And I was like, this is it. I'm going to press go. And then I realized really quickly that I was in no way, shape, or form willing to sort of devote the time that it was going to take to literally getting it out. I mean, I was like, okay, now I have these great designs. Who's going to send it out? Me.

Who's going to the post office? Me. So then I had to put a pause on that whole operation. And I'm like, you know what? I'm a one-woman show. So I need to partner with an existing brand to make that happen. I mean, if you thought you were working long hours as a lawyer, forget it. Like Julie used to have a garment line and she tells stories about what that world was like. And it just sounded like her life was completely insane. And you can, the thing about that industry, from what I gather is you can,

you know, start a line and start small and do okay. And even get into like the cool stores and even, you know, find a way to get celebrities to wear your stuff and all that kind of thing. But you can only grow it to a certain point. And, and it's consuming your life because you always have to be getting the new thing, you know, constantly have to be coming up with new designs. And if you want to kind of get over that hump and get to like play with the big boys you need like a massive infusion of capital to do that so many garment lines they just don't make it yeah and and the small operations i mean just to break even like you know when i was pricing fabrics and i mean i really it was like i was i was about to press go with my first 1,000 pieces. And just the pricing when you go from 1,000 to like over 5 or 10 like the big brands do, it's night and day in terms of how much it costs to produce.

And, of course, I wanted to produce it ethically. So I was using a local like New York, Brooklyn designer. And I was like – It's going to cost too much. Oh, like an arm and a leg. And then to price it, it was like the wholesale price was astronomical. The consumer thinks you're being greedy and like making all this money,

but like, and then you send it out to the people that sew it and manufacture it. You send out your patterns or whatever. And it comes back. It's like, here's a, you know, make this banana.

And then it comes back in orange and you're like, what did you do? And they're like, what? You know, like it's just a weird, you know, the rules of how that business operates are super bizarre.

For sure. It felt like a game of telephone at times. And it really was just consuming so much and taking away from other parts of things that I really find nourishing. You wouldn't be doing a lot of urban running. No. Doing that. You know what I mean? It's sort of like, how do you balance all these different things and be. Yeah. No kidding. Who you are.

Yeah, for sure. That's a battle. So let's get in. I want to get into the backstory okay your story's fascinating and just for the people that are listening out there um robin and i met at uh catalyst week in las vegas last year which was a really cool couple days that we got to spend um and it's a it's sort of a um what how would you describe it like a curated um of monthly or bimonthly kind of event that Amanda Slavin puts together where she brings interesting people out to downtown Las Vegas sponsored by Zappos under the auspices of Tony Hsieh, the CEO there, who is trying to revitalize downtown Las Vegas. And his project is called The Downtown Project. And he's bought up with, I think he spent like $300 million of his own money or something like that. Something astronomical. He bought up like six square blocks of the downtown part, not the strip, but the downtown

part, which is kind of downtrodden. And he's trying to revitalize it by kind of investing in startups and making it attractive for young people to come out there and bringing inspiring people out to develop an interest in what they're doing there. And it was really cool. So that's where we got to meet and I got to hear your story. And so I want, I want you to tell your story. So take us back. Oh, back in the day. I'm going to have to refrain from spitting out hip-hop rhymes. This mic is just too juicy. I want the authentic Robin Swagger New York experience.

Oh, Lord. No, I mean, I grew up in Philly. Whatever, idyllic childhood, all that. I ended up, I was not an athlete whatsoever. I was, I wrote, I forged notes on my mom's medical pad to get out of gym class. And I think I always had this duality of like the kid who was really good at school, but with this like very much rebellious streak.

And yeah, went to NYU, had plans of becoming a lawyer, did that. I went to law school and that's when I started running. Why did you start running in law school if you had never been an athlete? Well, in retrospect, I know the real reason. But back then, I thought it was just to alleviate stress, like this quote-unquote stress. But when I was in college, I ended up getting held hostage, like a crazy... Right. I want to hear this story. Because this is like a huge moment in your life.

I mean, it is. It's probably one of the most transformative moments in my life. That's still, you know, this happened 12 years ago. And it's still, I still carry it with me. I was just in a bar in the East Village with my friends and this guy walks in with a gun and happened to walk into the bar that I was in, shot this man lying on the ground. Well, sorry, let me backtrack. This guy walked in who had already been shot. Then the man who shot him followed him in. Then he shoots him a second time, grabs me. I was just sitting on a stool by the doorway, drinking a glass of wine, a few months before my 21st birthday, but whatever.

I think that's besides the point. The statute of limitations. Yeah, whatever. And then he grabbed me by my hair, and it was a really, really narrow, tiny wine bar. And he's just, I mean, expletives flailing. Like he's, I mean, he's basically saying that people are leaving him body bags. And I really didn't, in those moments, like time actually slows down. And you're like, what is actually happening here?

I mean, your body's trying to process it and then it's in shock. And then it's just these really base, like base emotions of survival kick in. And that's when he hands me garbage bag ties or throws them at me, and he tells me to start tying people up. So I'm tying people up with these slide plastic garbage bag ties, trying to make it loose enough so they can get out if they need to, but not so loose that he can tell that I'm doing that. And then he lifts me.

Oh, no. Then he starts spraying us with this flammable liquid. He's spraying us with kerosene. And I had literally chunks of my hair ripped out from how forcefully he yanked me. So he shot this guy outside of the bar. The guy is injured and runs into the bar. He follows him. But the guy has like spray kerosene on his person.

Later I found out he had multiple guns. He had swords, like full on samurai swords underneath his clothing. He had a catheter. I can't do this. He had a catheter on him because he planned for this takeover to take days. So, I mean, that was like, I mean, thankfully I didn't know any of that at the time. I saw the gun, felt the gun, and then he starts spraying us with this flammable liquid and then busts out a barbecue lighter and starts flicking it in people's faces.

It was in that moment that I was like, okay, this isn't a robbery. This is like, he wants people to die. Yeah. This is a psychopath straight up. Straight up. And he grabs me and he proceeds to use me as his main hostage, like as a human shield, essentially right body to body. I was right in front of him. The NYPD are now outside of the bar. It's a tiny bar. So this, I mean, this couldn't have been, it wasn't that many feet, maybe like a few hundred feet away, if that. And he wants to talk to the police outside. So then I became this, like, pseudo-negotiator where I'm calling 911 on my cell phone and then negotiating between this guy, Stephen Johnson, and the NYPD outside.

And I'm asking for his demands. He has none. Then he starts speaking to me in Spanish. Somehow he was able to tell that I'm Hispanic, I'm Puerto Rican and Cuban. And so then I'm like, all right, maybe I can humanize the situation. So in Spanish, I started talking to this guy about his son, about his family, about his life. And trying to really figure out, like, what it is that he was doing there and how to salvage this. And, you know, he really didn't have, I mean, he was just so disturbed.

And the only intelligible parts of the conversation were when he was talking about his kid. And at the time, his son was 10 years old. And his wife had just died of AIDS. And I just think he was an unhinged racist. He wanted to kill white people. He wanted all white people to die. Very explicitly said that multiple times. And, um, he, it, it was, I just remember like the refrain in my mind, I'm sure there were many things, but what I remember so distinctly was thinking, this is not my story.

And it was one of the first moments that I understood, um, my life as sort of the first moments that I understood my life as sort of the story that I was putting out into the world. I think before then, like, yeah, I dealt with stuff, but pretty, pretty uneventful life, I think, until then. And then at 20, when you're kind of dealing with your own mortality and then the mortality of 20 other people, because you don't want to set this guy off. Yeah, I mean, I think major is an understatement. So how long did this go on for? It was only like two hours. Right. But when you're going through that, it felt like a week.

And how did it get resolved? So this woman, Ann Margaret, who I didn't know at the time, but now I know, she was sitting in like a wash basin, like a sink. She lunges up and jumps him from behind at one point when he holstered the gun. Because he had the gun to my right temple, the barbecue lighter to my left, and then he's dealing with like me and the cell phone. So he's juggling a lot. Then he holsters the gun in his waistband, and she just jumps him from behind.

And then all I felt was a sensation falling, and then I see the NYPD rush in. I heard a gunshot. Ended up just grazing his temple, and he's fine. They just bum-rushed him and tackled him. It's amazing that that got resolved productively. Nobody died. Four people were shot shot and nobody died. I mean, that is like, that's a success story.

And this woman, Ann-Margaret, I mean, she saved your life. 100%. Like a real life hero. Yeah. And do you still, do you talk to her still? Do you know her? Yeah, I do know her. She's doing so great.

I was already in law school when, or no, we became really friends after this event. And then I went to law school. And now since then, she's become an attorney. She has a kid. So our paths are, it's amazing. She's an incredible person. And now she's a new mom. So I'm happy for her.

And the perpetrator, he's in jail? He's in jail. He was indicted on 72 counts. Wow. So Rikers will be his home. And did they figure out what was motivating? I mean, who was the guy who he initially shot? Was that just random?

Totally random. And I just recently found out, coincidentally, I was speaking to, um, one of the experts that they had engaged on the case. And she told me, cause I wasn't supposed to, because I was a witness and I was involved, I really wasn't supposed to know more than my own recollection. But, you know, 10 years later, I happened to meet this woman and she told me that he, he wanted to kill Jewish people and he was going to the Second Avenue Deli. But it was the Sabbath.

It was Saturday. Shabbat. So it was closed. No one was there. Oh, no. So he just came into the bar that I was at. Right. So this was, oh, no.

It was a Friday night. Friday night. Still Shabbat. But yeah, so it was a Friday night. Second Avenue Deli is closed. So he just happened to be right in front of the bar where I was. And that's it. I mean, it was just, there was no, it was very calculated, but the, but the location and the timing was not, that was complete happenstance.

Yeah. You just find yourself at the wrong place at the wrong time. Completely, completely random situation. And, and so in the aftermath of this, and then having to get involved as a witness in all of that, I would imagine that there's a pretty significant sort of post-traumatic stress that goes hand in hand with that. I mean, how did you kind of manage the aftermath? Well, he was tried three times. I mean, it was, I think I'm pretty sure from a legal perspective, the battle was all related to his mental health and his defense being insanity. But I mean, so reliving that each time and seeing him each time was really, I mean, it was traumatic to me for me. But in dealing with it, I was entering my senior year at NYU.

I kept thinking, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And I went to talk therapy for a while and it was like speaking to a counselor and whatever. And I felt okay, but it wasn't until I started running in law school that I really started to process all of that. And in ways that I didn't even realize, like I would just be really running a mile or two, three, that started very, very, very basic. And, um, I'd think like a random thought would pop into my head about this man or i would have an image of his face at an intersection and i'm like why am i thinking about this dude like this has been two years later um and that's when i really started to process it all right and then i get these abstract questions and existential questions of like why am

i here am i supposed to be in law school and um, um, and it, I don't know. And I mean, it was just like question mark after question mark. And only like in the past decade have I slowly sort of been chipping away at all those answers. I mean, I think it's a lifetime. Right. And so the sort of the gift and the experience is that it, it catalyzed some self-reflection and some thinking about like what it is that you're here to do. And, and that kind of has helped craft your redirect, right? So to speak. Yeah. Yeah. I think it planted the seed. I mean, I, I ended up endeavoring in a seven year law career, a corporate lawyer, securities litigation and intellectual property. I can't believe, I still can't believe I'm like, wow, that seems like a

lifetime ago. And it really wasn't, but I don't regret it. I can't even imagine. Right? I mean, people who I show up to. I show up to meetings in like a sports bra and booty shorts. And people are like. You were a what? Yeah, you were. And very corporate lawyer.

I mean, we represented like Fortune 50 companies. Which firm were you at? I was at Paul Hastings. Oh, you were? My entire career. Yeah, like the biggest law firms in the world. Yeah, yeah. Securities litigation.

And like. I mean, and during subprime. Like this was like one of the most intense. I mean, it was like 80 hour weeks. Like just fighting for the world. Yeah, yeah. Securities litigation and like. I mean, and during subprime. Like this was like one of the most intense. I mean, it was like 80 hour weeks, like just fighting for the banks. It was so crazy. But I really kind of relished like, I really don't regret one bit, not one hour I spent in that law firm because not, I mean, it really makes me appreciate my life now, but I have, I learned so much about business and intellectual pursuits and just like savvy. I really became much more savvy from that, from that part of my career, that part of my life.

So that transition into now having spandex as business casual is kind of. Right. I mean, it's dramatic. It's dramatic, but it's also like, God, I love it. I can't even tell you how much... I mean, were you bringing the swagger when you were in the law firm or just pre-swagger days? No. I'm trying to picture like...

Oh, come on. You can't even imagine. You can't take the swagger out of Robin. You can't take the swagger out. No, but I remember putting on my suits and putting on my fancy clothes and I would get like a manicure and it'd be bright orange or I'd be like, you know, going to argue my first motion and I would have like a three finger ring on. Like I always needed like a little something to show, I think myself more than anything else, to be honest, that I wasn't losing it. And I often think about the weight, like that suit felt heavy. And I didn't realize until later when I was literally shedding all these clothes that I'm like, damn, that wasn't my gig, man. Like it just wasn't. But I needed to

get through that in order to feel confident enough to really pursue the things that I'm pursuing now. And so when you were working in the law firm, was the running starting to pick up speed? Were you doing that then? Yes. So the running picked up speed. The running paralleled my law career. So as I advanced in my law career, so did my running as well. And I went from classic distances, you know, 5K,

10K, to my half marathon, marathon, then a bunch of marathons, and, you know, then ultras. But that, I think I only got the courage, they went hand in hand. I got the courage to sort of take on bigger projects and be a little bolder in my law

career, and then simultaneously did that in running. And then I found that running was so much my passion that like, I mean, law pales in comparison. Right. But the empowerment that you probably were able to develop through the running, I would imagine that would have sort of assisted you in your confidence in your law practice. Without question. I mean, I even, I think I even learned, I did. I learned visual visualization techniques as a runner that I would then apply to like, I remember before going into court to argue my first motion, I was like sitting on the subway, listening to MIA and just like envisioning the success of it.

And that's not like a skill or a tactic I'd ever learned. Like I didn't know anything about sports psychology at the time. And it was all because of, it was a learned skill that I developed as a runner. Right, right, right. So what was the moment where you decided like, I'm leaving this path behind? A few weeks before the London Olympics, I had the harebrained idea of going. And I was like, I'm just going to pitch a bunch of articles. And, you know, I knew some Olympic swimmers. So I was like, I'll pitch an article about them and Newsweek and the Daily Beast. Who are the swimmers that you know? My friend Azad. He swims for Syria.

Oh, cool. He lives in Venice. I wonder if you guys have ever. I don't know him. Yeah. He's amazing. So he didn't medal. But, I mean, he refused to walk under the flag because of all the political unrest.

And now Syria has basically dropped him, so he's funding his own way to Brazil. It's 2016. So, yeah. But I wish – I mean, he's amazing. I wish him the best. That's cool. He sounds like I should get him on the podcast. Yeah, you should.

That would be an interesting story. He's a really, really, really – and he's a young guy. I mean, he's only like 27. Wow. Really engaging guy. But so through mutual friends, he and I became friendly and I was interviewing him. And so I ended up pitching a bunch of articles to different publications. And I was like, eh, I'm going to make like all of $300 from this.

But you had already quit the law firm? No, that was the catalyst. You were like going to take your vacation time to. I was going to take a leave. Well, I had taken a leave of absence and I'd done some traveling and I was doing some work in Europe, running a bunch of races. I did like a bunch of little Nike projects over in Europe and, and I asked to extend my leave and they were like, actually, no, you're welcome to stay or you're welcome to

go. I mean, I was already like a rising eighth year at this point. Like I don't blame them for being like, are you in or are you out? So that was it. I was like, okay, I'm just going to book this ticket to London that costs well more than my rent. It was so late that that ticket, but it all was worth it because it was from, I mean, I ended up meeting a ton of people when I was in London. But it was there that I got the job, um, on the digital team working with Nike. Right. So I think that's a great example

of how, you know, it's, it's kind of scary to take the full leap. Like it's, you're in a very secure job, very like paid really well, you know, and that's very hard to leave, you know, and to have an, and you were able to kind of still do things outside of that. So you have one foot in, but kind of one foot out. I mean, you could have, had they not forced that issue, you could have perpetuated that for a long time. You were sort of compelled to make that, to make that leap. But I think that, you know, in terms of when you start talking about kind of self-actualization or kind of, you know, story, which we're going to get into, which is, you know, your theme and kind of what you speak to, um, in order to really embrace

that, like you have to, you have to be all in, you got to go all in. Right. So you were forced to do that and, you know, have some blind faith. I mean, to walk away from that and step into, yeah, I'm going to write an article, you get paid 300 bucks. I don't even know if it was that much. It might've been like a hundred, but I mean, gosh, freelance journalism is, is I'm going to spend a ton of money to go to London to like not get paid to do something. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it was, I actually like accidentally coincidentally met the CEO of Nike, Mark Parker in London. And he and I were both happened to be in a Nike store. And I was like, whatever, I'm just going to go up and talk to this guy. So I was telling him my story and how I was really appreciative of the brand.

And I dabbled and done this or that for the brand. And he turns to me and he goes, I thought about going to law school. If I had gone to law school, those pair of shoes right there would never have happened. And I was like, dude, that's amazing. And I just felt like this like cosmic stamp of approval on my decision. And then he turns to me and he's like, you're a really good style. You should start a blog. I was like, funny you say that. Cause I have one and I handed him my business card. Um, nothing ever happened from that, but you know, it was like those little moments of boldness. You have to celebrate those victories. And also he's giving you a pat on the back. He's saying,

you know, he's kind of saying, he's sort of like, uh, you know, keep going grasshopper. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, I felt like it was like a little pat on the head, like just go forth and conquer your little area of, of grass. Right. And so what was the next step? I mean, you're like, you must've come back to New York and kind of went, all right, like, how am I going to make this work? Well, I actually ended up getting a job offer before I even came back from the Olympics. So I was in London for three weeks and then somebody at an agency who does work with Nike, they hired me for the Nike women's team. And I thought I had my dream job. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to write copy and be a creative sort of voice for this

brands and women in fitness. And I realized really quickly, really quickly that I didn't want to write under anybody behind anybody else's brand or voice in conjunction with, yes, but not behind. You know, I was sort of this anonymous copywriter, social media person, and that's not really who I am. Anonymously advancing somebody else's brand. You're telling somebody else's story, really. Yeah, I'm being paid.

Basically, you know, my urban athletic experience, which is unique, is then, you know, sort of appropriated. And I'm not. For somebody else's bank. For somebody else's bank. Yeah, yeah. Build your own dreams or somebody will hire you to build theirs. Right.

All right. So then in light of that, like, so how does it, how does it go from there? I mean. So from there, so when I left the agency, I was really kind of at a crossroads. I'm like, what do I even do? How do I make money? So I had already been coaching some folks, some runners. And then I started taking brand consulting gigs.

So I was like, all right, I know about this space. I understand business. I understand social media marketing. So now I've worked with almost every major athletic brand as a consultant. So what kind of thing, like what do you bring to that? Like when they say, they come to you and they say, help us figure out how we're going to position this brand or portray it or like what kind of counsel are you giving? It's on two ends. Sometimes it's on the product side.

It's just like, does this even fly aesthetically, you know, product and styling? And sometimes it's just marketing. It's like, how do we message to X, Y, or Z demo? And I happen to represent like a few demographics. You're like the go-to person. Like we want to penetrate like cool chicks in urban areas, right? Yeah, and especially a few years ago, it was like, you know, a lot of that cool gear really wasn't around. And brands are scrambling, realizing that this fitness, that sweat is a lifestyle.

It's no longer necessarily like the Lululemon yoga mom. It's like a whole, it's a very rich and vibrant community of all kinds of stuff. vibrant community of all kinds of stuff. And I'm part of an urban running crew movement that really embraces the 360 kind of mashup of culture and sweat and style and fashion. And we just did it organically as a lived experience, like running to an art show and then running from there to like a DJ set and then like, you know, waking up and doing it all over again. And, you know, wearing sports bra to the club, like my fitness, I founded a fitness collective called it all over again. And, um, you know, wearing sports bra to the club, like my fitness club, I founded a fitness collective called undo ordinary. And, you know, we throw a Friday night party and it's like, come in your sports bra, like your, like leave your stilettos at home. We're not into that. Yeah. Cause your whole thing is like, you look like

you could either be going to work out right now or you're going out. There's not like a distinction. I mean, that's exactly what we want. That's what I want. Yeah. Very cool. Well, I would imagine a lot of that comes into, you know, how you style the specific, you know, photograph that is going to be in the magazine. That's going to speak to that, right? Yeah. I mean, is that something that you styling? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've definitely done styling before. Cool. And I love that. And I, but the problem is, you know, what you mentioned before about, you know, the gray shorts and the Navy, you know, the Navy palette, there's still such a hesitance to just go in for

what the, the, the minority that's pushing the boundaries of aesthetic and sport and this movement, what I consider a movement, a lifestyle movement, there's still hesitancy to like really go there with product. Right. Because what I would think is there aren't that many people that can pull off your look, you know what I mean? In real life, you know what I mean? Yeah.

So it's a distinction between like aspirational and like the reality of doing commerce. Right, right. And that's a balance that, you know. Like a runway show or like the pictures in Vogue magazine that are so styled, like no one's actually going to wear that. Right, like who's going to wear like the million dollar couture dress. But it captures your imagination and you sort of, you know, you can fancy it and you can aspire to that. And it speaks to like a lifestyle or an aesthetic. little more down to earth where like, I just think people have to expand their comfort levels a little more. And I think there's a messaging particularly to women about how they should

feel in a certain type of clothing for working out. And I think people just need to feel confident in being a little bolder in their aesthetic. What do you think, like, what is the biggest impediment with respect to women and fitness that you try to speak to? Oh, God. I think the majority of messaging to women is wrapped in pink and diluted. I don't think that, it's changing, it's changing. I think the rhetoric is changing a little bit. But I don't think the sort of aggressive, like balls to the wall messaging

that has been with men in sports forever has really entered the space for female athletes. And I think people are even hesitant to call themselves athletes. I'm an indoor cycling instructor and I, and I have women in my classes who go hard. I mean, they train like with me five days a week, really, really like working hard. And I'm like, you're an athlete. And they're like, no, I'm not. And I'm like, yeah, you are, dude. Like, you're a fucking athlete. And so I think that's a mental shift and it's a different type of empowerment. Right.

Trying to kind of own the masculine aspect of this yin and yang in a certain respect, right? Yeah, I think so. Instead of being like, oh, doesn't she look cute in her shorts and, you know, her trainers, her tennies. Yeah. You know what I mean? And, you know, I say her tennies yeah you know what i mean and you know i say i often say nothing cute nothing comfortable like we are smashing comfort zones here and i don't care how sexy or cute you think you look doing it you're going to use every bead of sweat to become the badass that you saw in that magazine or you saw in that show. Like I want to think that people can become their own inspiration and then push that forward. So you're just

starting this movement of people who feel absolutely enraptured and passionate about whatever. I don't care if it's like, you know, you're proud for packing your kids lunch or like you just landed like the sickest, you know, CEO gig, like all of that, it, it, the panoply of it is just as important if it means it's meaningful to you. And I think it transcends. Yeah. That's true empowerment. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. From the, from the ground up. Yeah. So, uh, so walk me through a day in the life. so uh so walk me through a day in the life oh there you're all over the place like i'm like what is going on so i teach what is today so yesterday monday i um i teach i taught three spin classes before 9 a.m which which studio where is that i i teach at two studios one at peloton which is a really exciting new fitness concept.

It's kind of like the Netflix of cycling. Peloton is a bike that has a console on it. And we live stream classes from our studio in New York City all around the world. Oh, wow. Cool. So that's really neat. And then I have another local studio called Revolve in Union Square that I love. I love my riders there.

And so I'll teach three classes in the morning, go home, eat like everything in sight, like as much, I eat like more kale than I can, yeah, like my weight in kale pretty much. And then yesterday I ended up having a meeting about the magazine that I'm launching. I'm the editor-in-chief of Undo Ordinary Magazine, which is launching this summer. Cool. Wait. Hold on a second. Very exciting.

You can't just gloss over that. You're launching a magazine? Yeah. So I co-founded a fitness collective called Undo, and the whole idea behind it was this whole empowerment thing we're talking about, like how ordinary people can do extraordinary things, like undoing a lot of the sort of self-loathing and limiting beliefs that, you know, irrespective of gender, we all have, and providing not only a training platform and a lived aesthetic, but kind of holding space for these amazing sweat-inducing endorphin moments. So like, we just want to take over So we literally just want to take over the world with sweat and do it with swagger.

So that's Undo as a movement. And then we kind of put that visually and substantively into a magazine. And so it's going to be a quarterly magazine. And my friend Sophia Chang, who's a really, really well-known graphic designer, it has her stamp on it all, all throughout the pages and, and Naivash is my business partner. She's sort of, she calls herself a mood creator. So she does, you know, anything from video work, she's long, long history in the music industry. And so all three of us kind of like are bringing our respective wheelhouses to

the table and it's, that's it. It's a living mashup of all these things. Wow. And do you, you have like a partner who's been in the magazine business who understands how to do that? Cause like that just seems like a huge. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a serious endeavor. Well, we, so Urban Outfitters, um, has a new division called Without Walls and Without Walls is a sponsor of the magazine and the sponsor of Undo. So, um, one of the people who were working with it, Without Walls actually a sponsor of the magazine and a sponsor of Undo. So one of the people who were working with it, Without Walls, actually has a former magazine background. Right. That's a plus. I mean, this has been like a pure labor of love.

Like we've made mistakes and then remade mistakes. And, you know, we're going to make many more. But we were like, we want to get this out there. And MTV just recently sort of picked up this whole story. So MTV Voices recently filmed us and is developing some content around what Undo is and what it means to the fitness world and the wellness movement. So yeah, I had a meeting. I had to look over the final PDF of the issue, sign off on that., when's it going to drop? July, it should, should be by July 31st. So we were literally sending it to print today.

And will it be an urban outfit or stores or where? Yeah, it'll be an urban stores. It will be, we have a bunch of distributors worldwide. A lot of, um, a lot of like small sportswear shops like Black Rainbow in Paris, you know, little places who really just threw friends and we're just like, you want to carry our magazine? So it's just, I mean, the hustle is real, man. The hustle is real. And it's honestly not to make, I mean, we're going to make some money, but

we're donating a large part of the money we make actually to Girls Gotta Run, which is a non-profit in Ethiopia that provides young girls from like nine to 18 with running gear and training camps. And we, yeah,

we, we, we're, we're officially partnered with them. And yeah, it's, it's so much more than like a dollar. Right.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's service. For sure. It's, it's a movement that nourishes me so deeply. To be even a participant in the conversation, let alone call myself someone who's pushing the conversation forward, is a real honor.

And thankfully, social media makes it possible. We have little things like hashtag campaigns. Like we're, you know, we have little things like hashtag campaigns. And now when I search undo ordinary, I'm like, not even a year ago, this was just like a concept in my mind. And now I have people I'm connected with from Russia to India. I mean, they're, they're writing to me the most like humbling, profound notes. And I'm like, A, you did that. B, wow. Like there's nothing i can really say um so yeah typical day that and then i had a photo shoot and i went from there to a photo shoot

answered some emails tweets instagram god the rabbit hole social media you're your own walking reality show really you know what i mean like I mean it there's so you know probably had a fight with my boyfriend and then I taught three more classes so yeah I taught six classes oh and then I went on my own run um yeah so it's like normally it's like five to six classes a day six to ten miles and business right hustle yeah in. But every day's pretty much different, except you're probably teaching classes in some respect or another. Yeah, I teach 22 classes a week.

Wow. Yeah. What part of town do you live in? I live downtown. I'm a downtown girl. I wouldn't go above Houston Street if I had a choice. I know.

I'm so sorry to drag you uptown. This is a luxury right here to go above. I'd actually much prefer to be downtown, but I also like running in the park. Yeah. I mean, listen, like I,

I get the draw to nature and I showed up to my first trail race. Like my first trail race actually ever, literally ever running on a trail was a 50 miler. I went to REI and I was like, Oh, I need some shoes to run in the wilderness. So thankfully I got something with a rock plate. Cause Oh my God, it was just crazy. So I get it. I really do. Like I nourish that in me, but when I'm in New York, like I, I feel truly like I'm

pushing the pulse of the city when I run the bridges, the streets, Brooklyn, like it's urban trail running. It is. It is. It's like, can I spot like a new graffiti piece, you know, and I might know the artist, you know, that's like, it's, it's, it's a different kind of excavation. Right. Well, I find that, and I like doing that too. Um, and when I stay downtown, that's exactly what I do. And I love it. And it's the, it's like when I'm at home, I'm running trails and there's like a kind of an active meditation aspect to that. But the visual stimulation of running in New York, I mean, even when you're running in the park, it's just constant people watching, you know, it's just fascinating.

Like it's so, I always run harder and longer and faster in New York City than I do elsewhere because it's just, there's so much energy, you know, you take that energy on and you could just running through the streets and it's so fun. Like it's my, like it's just, there's so much energy, you know, you take that energy on and you could just running through the streets and it's so fun. Like it's my, like, it's weird. Like, you know, I love trail running, but I think New York city is like one of my favorite places to run because it's so unique in that regard. And you never run out of interesting things to see. And you're just constantly like being enriched by the experience of the, the, just the visual

palette of what the city has to offer. It's like a game of Frogger. It is. It's totally like a video game. I'm like running, like trying not to get run over by taxi cabs. Same thing, like biking to the city. I mean, I love it. Yeah. And it's not like, Oh, there's a stoplight. We have to stop like, damn. It's like, no, this is part of it. Like this is part of the game, you know, of doing this. So I want to hear like a little bit about like, cause it's, it's all about like the urban experience for you of running. Right. And you've created like this cultish, you know, movement around this. So like speak to that a little bit. I mean, I, when I moved back from law school, I was in law school, I was in Philadelphia for law school, moved back to

New York city and I was a solo runner and I really didn't know what it felt like to be part of a community. I'd never been part of team sports. And I showed up one day to this downtown running crew called bridge runners. And I was like, Oh man, I found like my people, I found like my weirdos. They're like not traditional athletes. Nobody was a former track star. I mean, they're like, I mean, God, some of them smoke more weed than is humanly possible. And it's like, I was like, cool. I found like my Motley crew and, um, miles and miles and miles and like bonded by sweat. We became a family. And then we realized there were little families all over the place. And now we have like friends who are crews in London and Paris.

And we are just like this really rich international community of runners who are kind of off the beat and track. I mean, it was like we just. You know what it is? It's so rogue. You know, it's like the Warriors movie. I was going to say. That's what it's like. It's like Warriors or like West Side Story. You know what I mean? Yeah. Instagram feed. And I'm like, it's this gang. Yeah. Like that's what it's like. It's like Warriors, but or like West Side Story, you know, when I see an Instagram feed

and I'm like, it's this gang, you know, you're running in New York City. I was like, this is like some weird choreographed like West Side Story. We're going to start a snapping, you know, snapping choreography. Yeah. I mean, but there's this herd, there's a herd mentality in a good way not not in a following not in a sheepish way but in a way that's like yeah you're not going anywhere taxi like we're taking this light and we're it's just we literally take over the streets um i mean hundreds deep sometimes on a run and we're we become part of the fabric of new New York city in a very real way. I mean,

people are just like, Whoa, what was that? Like, it's just a force. And I never felt that before. And then it, so from there meeting all these other crews and then sort of starting my own movement, which has taken it now outside of running into other modalities and then bringing in the fashion element and the lifestyle element. And, um, that, that it just sparked, it sparked something like, I don't even know where I got this quote, some really profound prolific author, I'm sure, but it's, you know, seeking, I think it's roomy seeking out, seeking out people who fan your flames. And I'm like, God, I was engulfed. I mean, and I was so passionate from these experiences that it got to the point where I was leading a double life. Like I would just wait all day to make it to the run.

And thankfully, most of the runs were later at night, like total night owls. So I was able to make it as when I was a lawyer. And I'm like, I can't do this anymore. Like I've just got to find a way to pay my rent doing this. And somehow I've been able to, you know. There's no path. There's no. No, there's no path.

There wasn't even anybody I could talk to. Like, it wasn't like there was somebody high up who I just had to like tap into their knowledge. Like, I didn't know anything about this space as a business. And the business as a business sort, was born out of these experiences. Really, Bridge Runners is one of the first, if not the first, New York City running crew as that vernacular has now come to be. And crew differing from a club in that a club is a training group. And a crew is like this family, this gang, this... It's not what happens on Tuesday night at the run, but it's what happens Wednesday morning at the club or Saturday at the christening.

Right. That extends beyond that, beyond the run that you're doing, right? Absolutely. Into your whole, like woven into your entire lifestyle. Kind of like this ethos-driven training style where you're not really doing it. You're not necessarily doing it for the finish line. You're doing it to make the family proud. I don't know. Yeah.

I mean, I think it's like an analogy would be you're on a diet to lose weight, to hit some specific weight. But it's not a lifestyle. It's not what you live and breathe. It's a temporary thing or training for a race so that you can qualify for another race or get your best time. Like it's not really about that. It's about the day-to-day experience of what you're living and breathing by being part of this crew, right? Yeah, absolutely. And I really, I like to lead a life where there really is no finish line. Like finish lines are great. Like, don't get me wrong.

I'm definitely competitive with myself. I love a PR, all that jazz, but it's kind of like raising the bar and then taking it to the next level and then harnessing the power of community to do that. And I think that is the, for me, that's been the perfect recipe for the catalyst to my success.

Right, like raising the bar for the weakest member of the crew. Yeah, no runner left behind. Like that is like a refrain that you'll always hear because people are always like, oh, we see these pictures and you guys look so rad and badass. And I'm like, you're gonna be fine.

Like, trust me, like the fastest runner in the group at some point has been the slowest runner. Like, it's just the way evolution works. But you've also had some badass finish lines. Yeah, you know. So let's talk about some of these epic runs that you've done, you know. God, I love running. I just do. I just love it.

I'm like, I want to go run right now. Yeah, I think. So I've done some. I'm like, I want to go run right now. Yeah, I think. So I've done some trail races, some 50 milers. I think the most, definitely the most humbling thing I've done. And, you know, I really want. Have you run across the country? No, uh-uh.

I really want to run across. There's something like lodged in the back of my brain about that, but that's an aside. So I think last summer I was running across Utah. I did five. It was kind of set up like a stage race. I did five marathons in five days to raise money for MS from the US. My mom has MS. And my very, very first marathon I signed up for after a breakup.

And I was like, my mom wasn't doing well. She was in a lot of issues with her MS. And I was like, I got to do something. And so I signed, that's how my first marathon came to be. And then from there, I was just like, okay, I need more and more and more of this. But the running across Utah as part of that relay team was, I didn't understand until then the mental game that was required as an endurance athlete. I prepared myself for physical discomfort. I did all like the two a days, 100 mile weeks. I mean, I've never run more in my life than preparing for that. And because people were donating, I felt even more pressure to like, I have to do it.

I'm telling people and asking people to give me money. I've got to do this thing. So, yeah, I started at one point in Utah and finished at the other point and then passed on the batons of the next runner. So it was a relay across America where each person got a certain distance that they had to cover. Yeah, point to point. Most people actually did the least amount of miles. I think some folks did like nine straight marathons or more. Who got like Nebraska?

I don't know. I don't know how I got Utah, man. Like, you know, it's funny because the race was the relay was ending right around Labor Day. And I go to Burning Man every year. And I was like, and I really wanted the New Jersey and New York legs and all my crew could come out and whatever. And I was like, all right, this is going to be pretty much a solo venture then because I'm going to Utah. I don't know how many people I can get to come with me.

Not urban running. No, but it was, I mean, you'd think I'd be like taking in the majestic mountains and like, I was like, screw that mountain. I have to run up it. Like thankfully, so there was a documentary film crew there capturing the whole thing. And, um, there's a documentary coming out next year sort of about my journey and my relationship with my mom and, like, the hostage thing. And just, I mean, I guess, like, largely about my life path so far. And they were there to capture it.

So I'm really grateful that they have that footage because now I just saw the trailer and I'm like, ah, that's really beautiful. I'm glad I did that. But in the moment, you're just, like, so mired mired in like the rawness of the experience and the pain. What was the hardest part of that run? Mentally, it was just waking up every day and doing it again. Like I would wake up and be like, no way I'm going to do that again. And really, after the fifth, I could have kept going. I mean, physically, I was truly fine.

I'd done plenty of training. It was just that little voice inside saying like, you can't do this. And it was just all like an internal conversation that was mind blowing to me because I'm like, I have visualized this and prepared and read all the books. And it was like, you can't prepare for the moments when you're going to be your worst critic. And it was just like standing on the side of the road. I had a total diva Beyonce moment on the side of the road. There were like 18 wheelers passing by. And I was like, I just had a breakdown. I was like, I'm unsafe.

This is like messed up. And I'm like, you're stronger than this. Like bug up. Like you almost died at the hand of a gun. How many marathons in were you when that happened? That was on my last day. That was my last 10 miles. You were ready to throw it in.

And it was like totally logical. But it was like in those moments, you become a two-year-old. Like you are just like an infant. Like nobody can tell you otherwise. And I think I've definitely like, you know, I've crewed some friends and I've seen, I've seen that in other runners and I'm like, okay, I wasn't alone. Like that was like, I was like hallucinating and you know, it was just crazy. Yeah. And that's why they say never have your friends or people you care about crew for you because you really, you know, yeah. It's an intense, you know, you've been there.

Yeah. I've been there. It's not pretty. You know what I mean? I talked about it in my book. It's like you, you start behaving in a way that you're not proud of. No, no. You're stripped raw. There's nothing there, you know? And, and, uh, that's where you really meet your maker. Yeah. And you're, I mean, you're lacing up and it's like, who really, who are you really? And I was like, it was not, it was not pretty. It's not pretty at the side of that road. But to be able to push through that, that's where you talk about these empowerments. I mean, that moment is the moment. All the other marathons leading up to that was all for that.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I had a really hard race in San Diego recently. I was one minute off of BQ in Vermont. And the next week, I was running San Diego. And I just happened to, you know, I got the opportunity to run Vermont. San Diego was really my goal race. And I, like, looked at the elevation. I'm like, oh, it's going to be fine.

Mile 21, I just, like, oh, like six, eight weeks ago, I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. Yeah, I know. We were going to get into that. But anyway, so I had a crash. But the crashes with type 1 are like a crash times a billion. It's just like I was going to start just clawing up the highway. I mean, it was bad. So this, of course, is a mile ascent up this freaking freeway in San Diego.

And I just – and that was like my second, it brought me right back to like that moment in Utah where I was like, I can't do this anymore. Um, and then I had to just be like, deal with it, dude. You're not going to be cute. You're not going to get your best race. Just finish the finish line for the satisfaction of finishing what you started. And, um, yeah, it was, it was kind of amazing to in the, I liked the, the process of being able to recognize the disappointment, deal with it, get rid of it and just keep it going. Um, and then, you know, a little Gatorade helped too. That would help. I mean, do you have these mornings where you're just, you wake up and you're like, I can't do it today. Like I'm just beat. I'm tired. Oh my God. I'm tired. I'm tired so much. Like people

think, oh, you're doing all this stuff. Like you must just have the energy. I mean, I don't drink coffee. I'm not a caffeine person. I just, I try to, you know, put in, you know, what I think is going to feel my body the best and that's not processed stuff. But yes, I absolutely have those mornings where I'm like, oh, I don't have it in me. But then I think about how I'm going to feel on the other end. And that's always so nourished. So I'll wake up to teach my 6 a.m. classes and I'm like, not today, man. And then I leave those classes and it's like one rider or one moment in the ride when everything comes together.

moment in the ride when everything comes together and I know that I'm putting out something into the world that like is really authentic and, um, and hopefully meaningful to someone. So thinking it through to its conclusion, sort of. Yeah. I always, even before a workout, like I know before I like a really tough workout, really tough run or something like cross training, I'm like, Oh, I don't want to do this, but I know how gratifying it's going to feel. Even if the workout wasn't what I expected, it's always worth it. Yeah. Well, I think it's important to communicate that because I think it would be easy for somebody to listen, listening to this going, well, she's just full of energy. Like, that's not me. I can't do that. She's, she's a freak of nature doing all this kind of of stuff. But, you know, this is not, it's not like you've been doing this your whole life either.

Not even. Like, not even a few years. Like, this is just like. Wait, how many years ago did you quit the law firm? Two. Oh, it's only been two. Oh, my God. Two years.

It just seems like that must have been like 10 years ago at least. No, no. I mean, this is like, truly, I just was like, I'm a consultant. I'm an ultra marathoner. I've just created these titles for myself and then did the work and then created the titles. You have to act as if. Yeah. You put that energy out there.

You fake it until you make it. And then now it's like a thing. Right. I'm sure you have, you probably have young women come up to you all the time. Like, how did you do what you do? Like, how did, you know, what kind of advice do you give out to people that aspire to your lifestyle? Or to just, you know, because I think what you exude also is, aside from empowerment, is like freedom. I think, oh God, the biggest piece of advice my mother ever gave me was to stay weird.

Like I think we have such a tendency, we as a society, everyone has, we want to feel included. And I think we do that sometimes by sacrificing parts of ourselves and we don't even realize it. It's like an unconscious submission to other people's standards. And I mean, in a society that's inevitably going to happen, but you have to realize what the kernels are inside and be like, that's a non-negotiable piece. And I was really negotiating too much of myself away when I was a lawyer, but I didn't realize it at the time. And I think people are living at sort of like, I think there's this pervasive like malaise.

Like people are living at like a 50% and they're just okay with it. Like, okay, isn't okay. Like you can actually be happy with the choices that you make and the life that you're leading. If you evaluate what's really important to you, like what are, what are your triggers? What's your passion? And I'm really fortunate that running unlock that for me. But, um, you know, people do ask me all the time, like, how do I find that for me? And I think it's not things that you're excited about. That's not accidental. Like figure out a way to marry your skillset with that thing that like makes you want to wake up every day,

even if you were doing it for free. And like, really, I would be doing the work I do now for free if I could, if I could afford it, you know? Um, and I think that that that's, that's the stuff like that's life. Right. I mean, I think it's, it's like, uh, well, first of all, you know, we're all just plugged into a certain way of life. You know, it's like it's like we're on this treadmill of like how the way the way that things are supposed to be. And so we're not really compelled. You know, we're not really encouraged, I guess I should say, to look within at all. Really, it's not really part of the Western culture prerogative. So there's that.

And then and then we're all trying to fit in, like you said. So that doesn't encourage individuality or staying weird or kind of expressing what's authentic and unique to yourself. We're kind of programmed to do the opposite, which is to repress that. And so after years and years and years of doing that, it's almost flip for somebody to say, well, like, live your passion. It's like most people are walking around like they're so disconnected from who they are, that that they you can't even begin to answer that question. Like that, that question comes much later, you know, there, there has to be a first step in at least trying to develop a better relationship with yourself so that you can start to delve into that and figure out what that is. Because I know a lot of people who are like, well, I would, I would do something I was passionate about if I knew what I was passionate about,

like, I don't even know because, and it's not their fault, you know, it's, and I know what that's like. I've been in that place. I don't, you know, I didn't know what I wanted to do or be, or what was unique about me at all. You know, I was just doing what was in front of me to do. And it's very, very difficult, you know? So like, what is the, and I'm sure you've encountered lots of people like this. So what is that first step that somebody can do? I think – well, actually, one thing, I think it's helpful to notice when you're jealous of someone because – That's really interesting. It means they probably have something you want yeah when you're jealousy really speaks more about you than it's all about

you yes and i noticed like i know for me i would look at you know people in the fitness movement who have made careers out of it and i'm like man, man, they get paid for that. I want to get paid for that. And it was like this little pang of like desire and jealousy, like, and not in like a, not in like a romantic jealousy way, but, you know, in a, in a substantive, like, God, I want that. Like a yearning. And we should pay attention to that stuff. I think one of the first things that we can do is really pay attention to our stuff. I think one of the first things that we can do is really pay attention to our inner monologue. And we, I believe in like most of the things I've done in business. Um,

it's only been a few years, so my journey is just starting, but it's all based on a gut check. It's like pure, am I feeling you or this or not? And if it's not, you're out of my sphere, man. I have no time. But you have to be clear before you can trust a gut check. Yeah, exactly. So you have to clear it out. And I actually think... Because your gut check will send you down a dark alleyway.

Yeah, true. If you don't know who you are, you know what I mean? Very true. Because that gut check could be jealousy. You're confusing these conflicting emotions. Right, right, right. Absolutely. Well, one thing that has helped me is meditation.

I practice. This is what I was driving at. Yeah. Okay. I'm with you. So I dabbled in so many types of meditation, man. I mean, like I, it's super, it was super, super, super hard for me. Like I, that's not my natural frequency.

Like I'm not like. Yeah, you're vibrating at two, you're at like 3000 Hertz or whatever. I'm like a loving earthquake. So, you know, I tried guided meditation and like, you know, Gabrielle Bernstein podcasts and like all kinds of stuff, which were fine. But what really helped me was transcendental meditation. So 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening. And it's a mantra-based meditation.

So I went to this like little course with this guy, actually a former attorney who I used to work with, who's now a meditation guru, Ben Tertian. And Ben gave me my mantra and that's it. I mean, it was like having that focal point, having that like instrument for thinking, which is literally what a mantra mantra means. Let me suspend all this other stuff. Not like I think this mantra and no thoughts come in. I think that's the cool thing about this type of meditation that works for me is that like you allow the thoughts and then let them go. And then it's just like this passing, passing thing.

And somehow there's like I carve out like this white noise in those 20 minutes and it, it works for me, man. It just totally works. How long have you been doing that? Not that long. I mean, I've been meditating for over a year. But again, dabbling in all different types of stuff. So I would say probably for like four months, like a dedicated TM practice. Like morning.

And you're hitting it like every day, 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes at night. Yeah, yeah. I skipped two days. I skipped two days last week. And you feel it. Like, it's almost like if your body's like craving, like, um, if you're dehydrated and you want water, like when you start, when you habituate meditation, like your body's like, something's wrong.

Like I need it. Right. Right. Right. And yeah. Wow. Cool. Yeah.

I mean, I just came from, uh,, the Nightline guy, Good Morning America guy. And so I've just been talking meditation like all day, you know. Do you meditate? Yeah, well, my experience has been erratic, you know. And now I'm on like a really good streak where I've been doing it like really consistently for a month. But I've been doing 20 minutes in the morning, but I haven't gotten to the point where I'm doing it at night yet. But I mean, I can definitely, it's made a huge impact on me. And in the past, I'll do it for a while and I'll stop and I'll do it for a while. And I've been really thinking a lot about like, why do I go in and out of it? And what are the

impediments to just creating that kind of momentum and consistency? I don't know that I have the answer to that, but all I know is that it is working really well right now. So I'm getting more and more into it and interested in hearing more about it. But it was great to hear Dan's perspective as being somebody who is such a skeptic, just really did not want this to be his answer and for him to kind of discover it and what it's done to his life and his ability to kind of speak to it in a way that is really powerful because he can connect with people that ordinarily would not come across it. You know what I mean? But he was saying that literally he's like, just do five minutes. That's it.

Because it's more important that it's doable and that you do it than you hit some kind of number about how long it is, which I thought was interesting, especially for people that are beginning. But he's like, just set your intention that you're going to do five minutes. If you go over, that's fine. But like, don't create a rule around that. Just make sure that because everybody has five minutes, so you can't create that excuse of like, I don't have time. Yeah. And I think another thing that's interesting about the, does he practice TM or Vedic? No, no, no. No?

Well, that type of meditation, and I'm sure there are many, like, names for it, it's also not ritualized in any way. So it's not that you have to be on the cushion in your home doing the thing. Right, we were talking about that, too. I mean, I've done it on the subway or, you know, planes, you know, anywhere that you can close your eyes. And I stick in my headphones and I don't play anything, but it's almost like just the people blocker. And, um, yeah, I mean, you just, you just, it's a portable thing. You just need you. Yeah. And I mean, I think that if you're not kind of looking inward in that way, then, then when you're asking yourself these important questions, like, what should I do with my life?

Where do I want to invest all this? I mean, these are huge questions that can change the trajectory of everything that you're doing. Like, you better make sure that you're dialed up so that you're making the right choice and that you can rely on your instincts. I mean, you know, when I was out partying and drinking all the time, like, oh, well, my instinct says do this. Right.

That's a terrible instinct. Right. You know what I mean? That's a terrible instinct. Right. You know what I mean? That's a bad move. So like the gut check is good if you're like doing the work, the inside work. Yeah, I agree. But you got to get to that point. But I do think that, you know, barring sort of the big mistake gut check, you know, gut feelings, people are scared of failing.

And I think people need to get a little bit more comfortable with failure. I think if something feels scary to me and I can rationalize reasons why it's not particularly harmful, I usually do it because I think that fear can be a really good form of fuel to do stuff. Um, and of course that's all that's balanced with like, you know, using rational thoughts and not put yourself in danger, but. Well, I think it's okay to be afraid of failing, but, but, but doing it anyway, you know what I mean? It's sort of like acting as if in the face of that and being willing to fail, like embracing, you know, that failure is part of growth. Like you, if you're not like failing all

the time at whatever, then you're not pushing yourself hard enough to, you know, to expand. Yeah. I mean, I think that the complacency and the feeling, if you're feeling comfortable all the time, you probably need to be doing some more exciting shit. Well, I think people that feel comfortable all the time probably are not very happy. Yeah. I mean, it goes back to like that 50%, like you're just okay. You know, it's not necessarily like a clinical depression or there's no, there's no real low. But if you're like in that just mediocre state, like, ugh, release it. Release that mediocrity.

Like there's so much out there that can really nourish you. And then you can give that forward to the world. Like, I don't know. I feel so much about like energy and like giving rawness and authenticity out in whatever form that means for you that's productive. out in whatever form that means for you that's productive. And I think people have a tendency to just go about their days and clocking like, oh, it's Monday or oh, it's Tuesday. Like, no.

Like, dude, the party doesn't have to continue for you to keep dancing. Like, just keep doing your damn thing. And I understand the people who are like, oh, but I don't know what that is. So then keep going back to point A and point B and hitting refresh. It's not like I figured out, oh, I like this, so that's just going to be my thing forever. It's an iterative process. I might decide next week that I need to reset, and you just keep doing it. that I need to reset. And you just keep doing it. And it's like that circuitous process to success or quote unquote happiness. It's showing up to that thing every day and continuing that process. Yeah. I mean, success is not a destination oriented thing. It's how are you living and

breathing in each moment of your day? And are you embracing the journey that you're on? how are you living and breathing in each moment of your day? Yeah. You know what I think? And are you embracing the journey that you're on? And are you kind of waking up, you know, excited for what the day might bring you? I mean, that's success. And, you know, listen, I'm sure we both know wildly successful, you know, rich people that are really unhappy. Yeah. Who have pursued happiness in the form that, you know, was portrayed to us as the path to, you know, all of that. And then getting there and going, you know, what the fuck? Yeah. This is not what I thought it would be. And, and that creates like this crazy existential crisis where you're like,

well, what now? You know, like everything I did was to get to this thing. And now, well, maybe if I just, if I get the next car or whatever it is, that will solve it. And then doing that enough to understand like, oh, that's never going to work. Right. Now what? Yeah. And I know that that's a common sort of like American story or Western story. And I just totally can't relate to that anymore.

Like sometimes it's hard for me to advise on that or breaking out of that. But you must have seen partners in your law who are wildly overpaid or not overpaid, but just incredibly well-paid working incredible hours. It's not like when you make partner, like, oh, they give you the key to the executive washroom and it's all good. Like it's just more work and more responsibility. And then, and, and a lot of, you know, I, I don't regret my life as a corporate lawyer either. Like I learned a lot. I met amazing, brilliant people, but it was definitely not the life for me. And I saw a lot of unhappy people who, you know, medicated themselves

buying things. They couldn't always kind of living just a little bit, um, beyond what they could afford. So you, you're perpetually enslaved and you're really never able to part with it. Like you're shackled to it. Oh, yeah. And I remember, I mean, I was gonna, it was like what the young associates were doing. People were buying property and I was like, all right, I should buy an apartment, right? That's what makes sense. Like I should move in with this guy and we should buy an apartment and I should have a kid. Right. And then it's like, no joke. It was the night before I was supposed to sign the contract on this apartment. I was like, but it's a great deal. And it's in Williamsburg and it's up and coming and blah, blah, blah. I was like, what are you doing? You're going to be shackled with a mortgage and you don't even want

this job. And that was two years before I actually left. And it took two years to build the courage. So I don't say like flippantly, like, ah, just like quit your job and like do epic things. Like I get it. But I was definitely at that crossroads. And I even had that, you know, that thought process that it was like, I'm going to buy the apartment and then I'm going to feel like empowered by that. And really like it so had nothing to do with buying anything or owning anything. And it was all like truly pushing and pulling my own body weight. It was the most basic thing I could figure out. So even though that was two years prior,

there's this seed, little seedling that's growing, that's going, yeah, don't get too invested in what's going on. Yeah. And it was, and then it was like, live below your means, like save up money. And if I hadn't done that, there is no possible way I could have left. There's no way, because I wouldn't have been able to afford to leave and pay law school loans and, you know, life. Yeah, that's the one thing I always say to young people

is like, live lean. Like, don't buy stuff. Like, just be, the best insurance policy on your freedom and being able to make choices is to live lean. You have to live as lean as possible when you're young. Totally agreed. Totally. And I'm so grateful.

I actually never, I rarely think about that. And that was a real crossroads for me that I didn't even recognize as one. I was just like, eh, I'll figure this out later. And then a few years later, I'm like, oh, my God, I don't have a mortgage. Like, this is major. I can a few years later, I'm like, oh, my God, I don't have a mortgage. Like, this is major. I can pick up and leave whenever I want. I mean, freedom, portability, like, you know, those are very real concepts in my life. Right.

All right. So type 1 diabetes. Type 1, man. That was so shocking when you just posted it on Instagram one day. And I was like, what? I know. Like out of the blue. Like, first of all,

I didn't even know that that's the way it could work. Like I thought like type one was something, of course, type two, we know is, there's a lot of lifestyle components to that. Type one is very different. And that's something that, you know, I thought was sort of more of like a genetic thing that would have been diagnosed like much earlier in life.

So yeah, type one used to be called juvenile diabetes. I thought it was sort of more of like a genetic thing that would have been diagnosed like much earlier in life. So, yeah, type 1 used to be called juvenile diabetes. And it was, I mean, I just came back from a month-long trip in India. And I thought I was jet lagged or something. And I felt really dehydrated. And my mom's a physician. And she was like, this doesn't sound right. We need to get blood work. So it was like Tuesday, blood work.

Wednesday, endocrinologist. Thursday, I'm on insulin. Out of the blue. And they did an A1C test, which basically goes back in your blood work and measures your glucose levels and all this stuff. And for months, I mean, I'd done three marathons with type 1, and I had no idea. I was just running at such a high level that I was burning just enough sugar to not be hospitalized. But essentially, type 1 means that your pancreas makes little or no insulin. So it's just an autoimmune disease.

And my pancreas is just like it's on strike forever. Wow. It's just done. It's amazing. You were walking around and running around with that for— For months. Yeah. For like at least four months.

I mean, you could have just had a serious problem, right? A big, actually most type ones are diagnosed in the hospital because there aren't any symptoms really. And they have such high sugars that, I mean, your organs, I mean, you have ketoacidosis and tons of terrible stuff happens. And the effects of running with that high of sugar is pretty major for every single organ in your body. Right. So it's unbelievable. And, of course, people are shocked. I mean, it's like, I'm a really healthy person.

Otherwise, very healthy. And when my endocrine, I was like, oh, my God, is this pancreatic cancer or something crazy? I mean, how could this happen to me? And it was like, again, one of those pivotal moments where the endocrinologist is like, you have type one diabetes. And I was like, fuck, no way. And then I was like, what do I do about it? How do I run ultras? Like literally, that was like the first thing that kind of came out of my mouth. And she was like, pulling out like, you know, this was like an emergency visit. I didn't have an endocrinologist

before. So she really didn't know me. She just was looking at this blood work and like diagnosing me on paper. She's like, that's your first question. Yeah. Well, she pulls out this like, um, you know, USDA, like food portion map or whatever. I was like, uh, listen, chick, that's not the conversation we're having. We're talking about how I can run a hundred mile race.mile race. My friend Steven England is an incredible athlete. He's done Leadville, and he's training for a 200-mile race around Tahoe in September. He's a type 1 diabetic. He's had type 1 since he was

14. He was one of the first people I called. It was like, my mom, Steven. Because I just needed that. Thankfully, I know him, because so much of the information out there, even for athletes with type one, you know, there's a handful of Olympians, but there's, it's not really, it's not really out there in terms of like, there's a professional cycling team called team type one. My friend

Steven's on it. Novo Nordisk is the, is the team, the sponsor, right? Yeah. Yeah. So my, my friend Steven introduced me to those guys and he's part of the running component of that. Oh, cool. So there's a running team part of that as well. Yeah. So it started as a cycling team, and they've done incredible stuff. Yeah. They're amazing cyclists on that team. Amazing.

Amazing. I mean, they're truly professional athletes. And then there's a tri team, and then there's the running team. And a lot of the runners are marathoners and ultra marathoners. So Steven was like, you're going to have to figure out your own, like, treatment. But, yes, like, this, this, and that are possible. Right. So, how does it work?

So, I felt better. So, how does it, so, like, what does it mean, like, when you go out to train? Like, how do you have to monitor this? So, I have, I'm constantly battling low blood sugar. That's the biggest thing for me. You okay right now? Yes, I'm okay. I can, I mean, I can sense it, thankfully, because I have body awareness.

How do you know? Do you get lightheaded or how does it come on? It's like, it's a combination of feeling voraciously hungry and brain fog. Like for me, that's how I know. It's like I just feel fuzzy. Like your brain needs sugar to function, right? If you go below a certain level, you'll be in a coma. And most people, their pancreas produces insulin

to sort of regulate that automatically. As long as you're eating, you know, in proportion to your body weight and you're not, you know, being excessive with your lifestyle, like most people are pretty good. And for me, I have an insulin pump that gives me an eye drop of insulin every seven minutes. Thankfully, I have this pod because the pod and combined with the glucose monitoring device that I have, both, I mean, technology is everything. Like I don't know

how I would do it if I had to carry needles around on like a four hour run or something, like it would be insane. So basically I have a little, a little personal monitoring device that I adjust my insulin based on like what I do. So hold on. So it's like implanted in you. Yeah, it's right here. That's right. Oh, wow. It's literally under my skin but i move it so i change this every three days and sometimes i wear it on my arm and i remember when you know

i was going through the training the lady's like you know you can put it on your arm you have to move it or else it creates scar tissue because it's really a needle that goes under your skin and i was like i would never wear it on my arm god i like never wanted to be public and then of course like 10 days later i'm like what's what's up Instagram? Here's my pod. I'm loud and I'm proud. Um, but like I had to own it. Like I just had to own it. It's like that that's my reality.

And they had never seen somebody so aggressively pursue like all this technology. I was like, give it all to me. I want all the data. I want all the information. I want to be empowered. And I mean, seriously, there wasn't even, I didn't even waste an hour being like, why? I was like, you're just going to have to deal with this. And you're strong enough, so go.

And that's what happened. So it sucks. I mean, I'm not going to lie to you. It's a 24-7 tightrope walk of making sure I'm in between high and low. And as an athlete, it's more battling lows than anything else. And, you know, I'll teach three cycling classes in a row. And, like, I'll just have to, like, have something there, like, always. Right.

You just have to plan ahead a little bit and just be on top of monitoring it. But the only time you ever really thought, like, you were almost getting in trouble was running that marathon. In San Diego. Yeah. It was bad. I mean, I was like about to pass, like without like something, some sugar in my system. And there was no rhyme or reason for it. It's like, I feel just like my training runs.

I feel just like a week, literally a week prior, same distance, same fuel, same goos, same whatever, same game plan. Body just reacted differently. And it's just like, you know, same goose, same whatever, same game plan. Body just reacted differently. And it's just like, you know, that's the unpredictability. 80% of the time, this is how Steven explained it to me, and it's totally true. 80% of the time, once you have an understanding of your diabetes, like, you got it under control. But then there's that 20% that, like, your body just goes crazy. Like, you just don't know.

So you just have to always be ready in the event of that unpredictable moment. Yeah. I mean, it's like, hey, make bag like snacks. Like, I mean, I literally like at any given time of day, I probably have like a, like a honey stinger in my sports bra. Like I probably have like food tucked away somewhere, even though I'm wearing like all of two articles of clothing. Cool. So I want to talk about, um, kind of when you gave your talk at Catalyst, it was really the theme of it was like, tell your own story, right? Like be your own story. And, uh, and how does that, um, you know, how do you kind of communicate that to the people that you work with to help raise their bar

of their experience? Because I mean, a big part of, I think a big part of living a passionate life and you exude this is giving back, right? Like a part of what gets you out of the bed in the morning is that you know that you're helping other people and that you're having a positive impact on others. And that's a huge motivating factor. And it's a big part of, you know, basically your own personal fulfillment, like happiness equation. So, so what is the mechanism by which you are able to like, there's, let me back up. There's nothing more powerful than, than a good story well told. Right. So, so, and, and the ability to effectively communicate a good story, whether it's your story or somebody else's story, is one of the most empowering and inspirational things that you can do. And you're very good at it. And your lifestyle is like an extrapolation of that, right?

So how do you infuse that into the people that you're interacting with? That's a pretty vague question. No, I mean, kind of. You know what I'm getting at, though? Well, I think you're asking, like, how do you own it? I mean, I think it really goes back to people talk when they're figuring out, like, a startup or whatever. It's like, what are your brand values? Like, we have so much conversation around, like, We have so much conversation around how marketing should look or feel or sound.

And what I really like to encourage people to think about is if you are the CEO of your body, like head to toe, what are you putting out into the world in what you do and what you say? And how you feel, how you feel. Because one of the best things that you can do is take care of yourself. That's a service to others. That's not selfish. That's taking care of your own home, your own body and being of service to the world in whatever capacity you can be. And I think the owning, the empowerment of it, I discovered it through physical activity. I really think that some type of fitness is a way to tap into unlocking your why. And I think when you identify your why,

then all these other things fall into place. You have a little bit more clarity, like the cleaning of the cobwebs, so to speak, that you sort of mentioned, like making sure your internal compass is dialed in. I do think that, I really do think that sweat is cathartic in a really major way. And not to say that somebody's going to go for a run and decide like, oh, I want to be an ultra runner. Oh, I want to, you know, be X, Y, Z and related to sports or wellness, not to say that at all. But I do think that there's some clarity that comes with it. And I think from there, from sort of that base, then you start to realize like the literal and visual conversations that you're having with the world.

the literal and visual conversations that you're having with the world. And I think especially because of the social media fragmentation, we kind of are looking at things in like this really jarring, like Instagram posts, Facebook posts, tweet, FOMO, YOLO, like all these, like, I mean, really, that's just like, that's a modern day, just existential, like question of, of nowness. And I think when we're thinking of what our legacy is going to be and all these really lofty questions at the end of the day, it's just like, are you living and writing stories that are going to be really juicy when you're 90? Like, are you doing something that matters in your gut? Not because it's,

you know, some lofty linear story, literally that, you know, that could be fictionalized, but because you're making connections with people and building community and like, you know, eating real food and just like all these little things, like it's all about the little things. And that, what my thing, my point is when you're saying, write your story, when I'm saying, write your story and own the pen, it's more like, are the little decisions and little thoughts that you're having every day, adding up to this larger picture that you see for yourself. And I think people should take excitement in that. Like there is just so much power in that ability to literally stop the thing that you're doing that's not nourishing you or the world and cut that shit out.

Do something epic. Like it's not that easy, but it is that easy. epic. Like it's not that easy, but it is that easy. Yeah. I mean, I think the trick is, is for the person who feels trapped and they're like, well, that's great. But like, I can't do that. You know, it's about that first step. Like what's that first letter that you're writing when you're writing your story, just write one letter. Right. You have to start with something and you don't need to know it. You don't need to know what your legacy is. You know, start with something. You have to start with something. Surround yourself with inspiration. You don't need to know what your legacy is. You know what I mean?

You just have to follow a thread. Like, I'm feeling pulled in the direction of trying to learn how to play the drums or whatever it is. It could be the stupidest thing in the world. And I think there's a lot of embarrassment around that kind of stuff. It's like, these are juvenile aspirations that we've been told we should sort of push aside

and get into the business of being responsible adults. Well, I think the process of reinvention, first of all, I think it should happen always. But secondly, I think, especially as adults, we feel like, well, I already wrote my story. I'm already this, and I'm already that, and I'm already a dad. And I'm already like, this is me. But like, you're evolving every day. Like literally on a cellular level, you're always evolving. So like, take your body's cue and just bring it up here and, you know, allow yourself the freedom to not know.

the freedom to not know. And when we go back to thinking why we pursue certain things as kids, like it's just because you're like, that seems fun. Yeah. There's nothing else going on other than that. Right. You know, like it's, it's, so why can't you follow somebody else's script? Like go take the cooking class go take the drum lessons like somebody was in my class the other day and she was like god i always really wanted to take a ballet class i was like do it like who cares yeah you're you're probably never gonna be in the new york ballet at like x years old but why not just freaking do it you don't know what that's gonna open up like maybe you're meant to be the pr person for that you know it's like you just don't know how the dominoes are going to fall. And you shouldn't necessarily even try

to understand that. You know what I mean? And I think that what happens is whether it's your story of going from corporate lawyer to the things that you're doing now, or, uh, you know, Dan Harris going from having a panic attack on national television in front of 5 million people to being like this advocate for meditation. The sort of media narrative is to compress that and to make it sexy. It's like a 30 second, yeah. It's like, this just happened overnight. Like you were a corporate lawyer

and you snapped your fingers and now you're like doing all this amazing stuff. Or, you know, I lost 50 pounds in two minutes and ran Ultraman like a week later. You know, and it's like, when you look at the timeline, like I was talking about this with Dan. He had his panic attack in 2004 and he didn't do his first five-minute meditation until 2009. That was five years later. So it's like the neatly packaged narrative that the media is shoving down your throat isn't actually real.

media, you know, shoving down your throat isn't actually real. You know, this is like hard work and it's like, you know, throwing pebbles in the pond and putting your toe in the water and then slipping and doing a million things that are embarrassing and messing up and failing and not knowing what you're doing and questioning yourself and all of these things. But all of those things are not failures, they're successes because they're just steps along this journey. So I think the important thing is to embark on the journey, to have the courage to embrace the not knowing. And it doesn't have to be about goal setting or achieving some objective. It's about just embracing something different and new, something that might be intimidating, but you're inexplicably drawn to and just not trying to understand the why behind it.

drawn to and just not trying to understand the why behind it. Yeah. And I think almost all of my lessons in the past few years have been in retrospect. Like it's not like in the moment I'm necessarily understanding the poignancy of something in that time. I think it's the reflection that is important. You look back on it and it seems to create this, you can create, you can write your story retrospectively by looking backwards and going, oh, this makes perfect sense. Of course. You know what I mean? Like, you know, Dan Harris got assigned to cover spirituality and religion. You know, he didn't want to, you know, and that

set him on a, he didn't know why he was doing that then. You look back now and it's like, oh, like that's something that a novelist would have fabricated for a book, you know, like that doesn't just happen. And, and that, that's happened to me many times, these weird things that have happened. I'm sure you've experienced that. Yeah, absolutely. And then you can write the narrative like backwards like that. But when it's happening, it doesn't make sense. You don't understand it.

And, and I think it's about being okay with that. Yeah, you do. And I think that being okay with that discomfort, like a lot of life is uncomfortable. It's not always going to be like, I do believe in celebrating little victories, 100%. But most of the time, if you have any type of momentum, you're going to have discomfort, a lot of discomfort along the way. Well, discomfort is the crucible for growth and change anyway. Yeah. Like you should welcome the discomfort. If you're uncomfortable, then something's happening.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. You know? Definitely. I mean, I feel that all the time. And I think people, like you mentioned about Dan Harris or even people's success stories. You know, you look at people, whatever, Warren Buffett, like these icons in Western society.

And when you break down those stories, you know, whether in their books or whatever, you're like, damn, that was a lot of hustle. Like that was a lot of little stepping stones and a lot of seeds planted. Like I say, like plant a whole field of seeds. You don't know what's going to sprout. Like those connections might not even happen until decades later. And it is, it is in retrospect that sort of the synchronicity of things kind of pop up and you're like, whoa, like that was absolutely supposed to happen for me. Right. And it's about not judging, not making judgment calls on the good or the bad

of whatever is happening. Like right before, right when you walked in, we were talking before we started recording and you were supposed to go to LA and do this TV show, right? In three days. In social media, you were getting all ready to go. It was an exciting thing. And then at the last minute, the plug got pulled. So what happened like this? So I was supposed to, ah, I'm still so frustrated. But literally, the executive producer called me like an hour ago. I was supposed to be on this show with NBC and Esquire Network where it was called Enter the Wild. And we were going to literally live in the wild for a month with this survival tracker professional guy,

Tom Brown. And apparently he pulled out from the show and now it's three days before three days. I mean, this was like, if anyone, if anyone can imagine taking a month away from your life, literally off the grid, no business calls, no family calls, nothing. You got to get ready. I mean, that is like a lot of prep that's gone into... That is everything. And I work with... Because I have such like a... My work is like with a lot of different brands

and a lot of different studios. It's not like I tell one boss and I take a leave. I had to contact like 20 people to get there okay or just to give them notice. So yes, to say that that was like, I mean, that was a blow man. And just that call. And I was so excited about it. I was excited, excited about like doing this amazing thing. I was like, this is my next adventure. Like this is, you know, you kind of, I'm in that place where I'm like, what's next? Like I want something else. I want

something else. And the driven part of me is like, yeah, that's your challenge. You're gonna be some warrior chick in the woods. And yeah, it looks like very likely it's not going to happen now. And that's creating space. But I know well enough to know that is creating space for whatever it is I'm supposed to be doing. Yeah. I mean, the next thing that came out of your mouth was like, well, there obviously is something better or I wasn't supposed to do that. It's sort of, you were talking about planting a ton of seeds. Well, that was a seed that germinated and was starting to grow and was about to sprout and the lawnmower just ran it over. So it's like, all right, well, what other seeds look like they're popping up over here and let's just go

over there. Yeah. And like, you know, my sister's going to Thailand next week from India and I'm like, maybe I should be going to Thailand. You know, it's just like that's how my mind works. And it's only through falling flat on my face so many times. And wallowing does nothing. It does nothing. Not to say you shouldn't let the disappointment. You should feel it. You should feel how you feel.

But just got to move on to the next thing. How was India? Oh, God, I can't wait to go back. My sister's living there for another year. So I will have an opportunity to be there again. But where were you in India? I was in, my sister was living in Delhi at the time. So I was in Delhi.

And then we went to Agra where the Taj Mahal was, which is, have you Taj Mahal it is like just as impressive as you think it'd be like gasp worthy um that will never become a cliche like Taj Mahal is as epic as it should be um so we went to Taj Mahal then we went to Rishikesh which is an amazing area where which is kind of like it's where the Beatles learn to meditate it's kind of like the birth's where the Beatles learned to meditate. It's kind of like the birth, dubbed as the birthplace. Lots of ashrams. Yeah, lots of ashrams, birthplace of meditation, all that. And that was amazing. Like, so many people searching.

Like, I have never been in a place where you just felt like people were seeking and craving and wanting like answers, like with a capital A, answers. And that was really like weird and neat. I kind of thought it'd be like this Zen yoga place. And there's tons of yoga, but not like Western yoga, Hatha yoga, very, very different types of yoga than I'm used to, which is a vinyasa practice. But what was so interesting to me was not the yoga at all. It was more like the interactions with travelers and these just nomadic kind of folks

who find themselves at a satsang in this random, you know, it was like this Brazilian Picture of this Brazilian guru and a hundred random people just chanting. And they're all very visually different. All colors, all ages. And I'm just like, we all are here. It was a weird... It's rare that I have these moments

that just give me absolute pause. And I'm like, this is like, we're all here in this time-space continuum. I don't know. It was like this really weird snapshot that I recognized as a snapshot, which is also rare. So India was amazing. Rishikesh was just such a trip and beautiful, right at the foot of the Himalayas. Goa, we also spent some time in Goa, southern beaches. That was amazing.

We were in, oh, my God, what was the name of the beach? The most southern beach. Totally forgetting now. Goa's pretty south, too, isn't it? No, so Goa is the most southern state, but then the most southern beach in Goa is where we were. And I cannot believe I'm forgetting the name. Maybe that's a good thing because I don't want it to get overcrowded because it's already getting too touristy.

But it was such a gift to be able to hang out with my mom and my sister. Like, I don't remember the last time we spent more than three days together. Right. So I think, you know, I have a tattoo on my arm. These are swallows, and it's three birds. And the middle one is my mom. The bottom one is my sister. The top one is me.

And it just kind of honors all our journeys. Right. And my mom is a real example of reinvention. She's a Cuban refugee and taught herself English watching Sesame Street and PBS at 16. And then, you know, eight years later was, you know, in medical school. So she's a really inspiring story for me. And then my sister, even though she's my little sister is way wiser than I probably will ever be. And is now living in India and working for an NGO and just literally changing the world. So I have, I'm sort of book

ended by these amazing women who inspire me in very, very unique ways. And to, it wasn't lost on me that we were kind of like all three of us on this beach in India. And I managed to take a month off and it was just like very, I was like, okay, sunshine, this is it. Like literally in a bottle. So it was great. That's really cool. What do you think about this sort of dearth of female role models? You know, it's this we're in the world of the Kardashians. Oh, my God, I know, bachelorette and all this sort of thing. And there just really aren't, you know, and as a father of two young girls, like, I think a lot about that, like, you know, I want my daughters to aspire to, you know, their version of greatness,

or expansion or authenticity, and who are they looking to? You know what I mean? Who are the people that are around that they can latch onto? And we're in a crisis when it comes to that. It's a huge crisis. And it's not that there aren't amazing women doing incredibly inspiring things all over the place, but it's a misdirect when it comes to media attention. The most readily available images. Absolutely. I mean, I'm lucky and your kids are lucky because

they're surrounded by, you know, their mom, but I was, I think it, unfortunately it's, it's starting from the closest images that you have to you, um, for, for a lot of girls. And I don't know how to change it. I mean, I would like to think that is really one of the things I want to do with Undo. We sort of feature these vignettes and empowering stories of real people doing awesome stuff. And we want to encourage people to tell their stories and be visible and vocal about the stuff that they're doing, because then that sort of raises the consciousness a little bit and the dialogue.

But in terms of crazy celebrity culture and the rabbit hole of Us Weekly, which I will definitely buy on a plane and whatever. I've done it. I admit it. But I'm also old enough to know. Would I give that to a little kid and show that as an example of what to be in the world? Absolutely not. So. So, but I think that, I think that there is a mass yearning for that. It's not, it's not an isolated thing. So it seems like it could be something that you could weave into the,

the brand consultancy work that you do, like to be able to, you know, sort of, you know, raise the pedestal of maybe some women that you haven't heard of and put them, you know, in an ad for a brand in a way that's aspirational for young girls, you know, there has to be opportunities for that to work within the system. There are, and there are really good organizations that I've worked with. Like I am that girl is kind of the messaging behind it is really cool. It's kind of like I am that girl who is basically getting accomplished people to be like, yeah, I am that girl who was made fun of for running, which I literally was. It was made fun of, by the way, for how I ran when I was in sixth grade.

You know, little things like that to sort of like spark dialogue and inspire folks. But I think from like, from an aesthetic perspective, from like a stylized perspective, it's really important to sort of bring people from like the fray and bring them in. And I feel like that's sort of what the running crew community did for runners. And I think that it's something that the wellness movement can now do for women. Like, I think that it is absolutely a beacon. I think the wellness movement is a beacon of light for women and in a really healthy way, not in a way that's focused on body image, but in a way that's focused on, on empowerment in a very different, it's a different

type of feminism, I think, honestly. Interesting. We got to wrap it up here in a very different, it's a different type of feminism, I think, honestly. Interesting. We got to wrap it up here in a couple of minutes, but I did want to ask you about your experience going up to Vermont and working with the Love Your Brain guys with Kevin. I love those guys. So when we were in Vegas, we had the great honor of meeting the Pierce brothers. And Kevin Pierce, for those who don't know, was a incredible snowboarder who was well on his way to, uh, the Olympics and potentially beating Sean White. And he had a massive head injury, uh, shortly before two Olympics ago. Right. And, um, and, uh, it's been a long road back for him with his health, and he's doing great now.

There was an amazing documentary made about his life called The Crash Reel, which was on HBO. I don't know if it's still airing, but if you have a chance to see this documentary, it's extraordinary. And Robin and I both had the great opportunity to meet these guys at this event, and it was really touching. They're special guys for sure. Very special guys. And they put together, so they have a nonprofit called Love Your Brain and they were putting together a group of people

to do the Burlington Marathon, right? And you wanted to coach them and get them ready. So I want to hear about that. It was so fun. I mean, gosh, that was, so Adam and Kevin reached out to me to coach the team. And Love Your Brain had a lot of different participants on the team. So the Burlington Marathon allows people to participate in the marathon as a relay, as a half, or as a full distance.

So people kind of picked the distances they were capable of running. And Will Halby, his family has a farm in Vermont called, oh, my God. Oh, I can't remember the name of this either in my brain. So they have a farm in Vermont. And I'm so sorry, Will, that I forget the name. But they host us. And they have this, like, amazing community that they basically allow nonprofits to come

and host their events there. The pictures looked incredible. It's stunning. And for me, like speaking of nature from New York, that was... Yeah, being an urban girl. I was like,

oh, I really needed this air. I needed this greenery. And, you know, like truly on a cellular level, I needed it. So I basically helped coach the 70-person team. And, you know, some truly on a cellular level, I needed it. So I basically helped coach the 70 person team. And so, you know, some people were running 5K, some people were running 10Ks, a few people were running the full, a bunch of people running the half. And we spent five days

out there and it was so much more than a marathon. Like I got there on a Thursday and we had like a storytelling circle where you have traumatic brain injury victims talking about, you know, one, one girl was thrown off a horse and like, she's, you know, basically, you know, wheelchair bound. And, um, she walked a mile of, you know, she assisted, she walked a mile of the marathon. So little, little things like that are not, are not so little when you make, when people tell their stories and you're like, your jaw's on the floor, like, I can't believe I'm surrounded by so much goodness. And so it was really about raising awareness for traumatic brain injury and prevention. And I think what Love Your Brain is doing now entering sort of this like team-based sports world is really cool because you're allowing the actual survivors to do something that's really empowering. Then you're spreading the message on prevention.

And then you're creating this team bond around running, which is like freaking awesome. Yeah, it's really cool. So it was a five-day camp. And basically, both the survivors and some educators and family members all came together. We did yoga. We had meditations. We cooked food. And all sort of brain-rich foods.

It was just like a 24-hour awesome fest for five days. Yeah, so a five-day Awesome Fest. And like love fest. Like by the end, we're all just like, literally we're having a dance in the barn. And oh, Zeno Mountain Farm. That's the name of the farm. I knew it was in there.

So then we're just having a, you know, we're literally like dancing with our shoes off and they had a DJ and it was just like, oh, when do you get to do that? It was so special. So we're gonna do that again. We're definitely gonna do that again. Cool, cool, cool. And you have to join us., when do you get to do that? It was so special. So we're going to do that again. We're definitely going to do that again. Cool, cool, cool.

And you have to join us. Yeah, I would love to. Actually, Adam emailed me. He was like, hey, can you help with some of the nutrition stuff? And I think I was in the Middle East. I was traveling and just wires got crossed. I didn't get back to him right away. But I want to support what those guys are doing.

They're doing amazing work. And there's a need for it. It's such a need and such a misunderstanding. I mean, to be honest, it was cause of love your brain that I started wearing a bike helmet and I just had a crash like last week. I mean, I'm totally fine, but I ended up getting dings in my back wheel. Like, you know, I just went, went over and there's no, I mean, a brain is a pretty cute accessory. So I need that.

You can't be riding your bike in New York City without a helmet. For five years I did. But like, that's crazy. I know. It's stupid. It's absolutely stupid. But I know a lot of people do it. And it was truly because of that five-day weekend where I was like, God, this is important. And not only is it important, it's a total slap in the face to these people who I like admire and respect so

much. And like, I can't, yeah, I gotta, gotta be on board with that. When you see that up close like that. Yeah.

And there's stories where, I mean, it's like one woman fell off a ladder and like had to get like part of her vocal cords removed. I mean, and like now has like, it's just, it's a, it's a problem that a lot of

times isn't visible and TBI survivors, like they're, they're battling it kind of silently a lot of the time. And I think what Love Your Brain is doing is, is raising awareness. And then Kevin is just such an inspiring guy and such a genuine dude and their family is so special. So they're really good, important, necessary leaders of that. It's an amazing family. Yeah. That documentary really is about as much, it's really a family story as much as anything else. And, you know, Kevin's just a love.

I mean, he is, he is, he is love. He is love. And I got to meet his parents and I was just like, you guys, I feel like you're, like, I love you. And they probably get it all the time because they're, like, total, complete strangers see this documentary. And they're just like, oh, you're so special. Yeah, and they all are. And it's not weird. It's fantastic that they happened to be so sort of in tune with relationships that they picked.

They cultivated such a special group of people for this camp. Like it wasn't just like you applied and went. It was like people who really cared about sharing. And it wasn't necessarily about sharing TBI stories. It was just like about story and about connection and about feeling inspired, no matter where you're coming from and then leaving and taking that into your community and like doing something. And, and that, that spark, I mean, those are the seeds, those are the sparks that create movements. So, so I'm really

happy to know those guys. Yeah. Cool. Well, I think that's a great place to start. Yeah. Yeah. That was awesome. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. So cool. I love having you. You were fantastic. I know it goes fast, right? So fast. Right. Um, so, uh, everybody out there start writing your own story. Yeah, man. Own the pen. That's right. Own the pen. And, uh, if you're digging, if you're crushing, I should say on Robin, the best way to seek her out and stalk her would be, uh, on Instagram. It's, it's, uh, at Robin NYC, right. And, uh, on Twitter is the same. Yep. And Robin Arzon.com. Robin Arzon.com. And what's coming up next for you? I guess we don't know. Well, I'll be running, I'll be running half naked at 50 K and burning man.

Why not just totally naked? Yeah. But you know, I don't, not just totally naked. It's Burning Man. You know, there's like, yeah, but you know, I don't. What does half naked mean? You're half naked already. It's true. So the booty shorts get smaller and the sports bra gets a little bit even smaller. Uh-huh. All right. So Burning Man marathon.

What is it? Burning Man 50K. Burning Man 50K. Then. When is that? Lehigh, end of August. End of August. Then Lehigh the week after, New York City Marathon.

Coming up. And maybe, who knows, maybe I'll be in Thailand next week since I'm not going to be in LA shooting a show. Or maybe there'll be another TV show that comes out. Yeah, yeah, maybe. I'll welcome that. All right, cool. Well, I love you.

It was fantastic. I love you too. Thanks, Rich. Thanks so much. And we'll do it again next time I come to New York, all right? All right, right. Peace. All right, you guys, that's this week's show. I hope you dug it. I love Robin. I'm so glad that she took the time to sit down with me when I was in New York city. And I hope that you guys are inspired to undo ordinary couple quick announcements I was in New York City. And I hope that you guys are inspired to undo

ordinary. A couple quick announcements before I let you guys go. If you want to stay current with all things plant powered, subscribe to my newsletter at richroll.com. I'm very sensitive to email. The last thing I'm going to do is inundate your inbox with a bunch of nonsense. Basically, what I do is I send out a weekly podcast update and then occasionally an email with product offerings and discounts and sales on the offerings that we have. And we have some cool discounts coming up oriented around our 100th podcast episode. 100. Oh, my God. 100 episodes. I can't believe it. And this is a special that I'm not going to tweet. I'm not going to Facebook. The only way to find out about it is to be on the email list. I'm trying to keep it exclusive for the people that really want to be on this Plant Power mission.

So go and sign up. Again, not going to shellac your inbox. I'm only going to be sending you guys good content or basically ways for you guys to save money. And that's essentially it. And, of course, you can unsubscribe whenever you feel like it. If you're feeling stuck in your life, you want to undo ordinary, but you don't know how to start, you don't know how to begin, well, I've got a course for that. It's called The Art of Living with Purpose. You can find it at mindbodygreen.com. It's all about how to do that inside work, how to get reconnected with yourself,

how to tap into what is your true life purpose. And then it's all about setting goals, not just any goals, but the right goals for you. And then how to create that roadmap to ensure success. It's a couple hours of streaming video content and online community, downloadable tools, lots of good stuff. And you can preview it and check it out and see if it's right for you before you purchase it. So you can check that out if you want more plants in your life. I've got a course for that too. It's called The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, also at mindbodygreen.com. Similarly, tons of downloadable tools. I think it's like over three hours of streaming content, video content, online community, all that good stuff. Of course, for all your plant power provisions, go to richroll.com for our t-shirts, our nutritional products, our Jai Seed e-cookbook, our meditation program, signed copies of Finding Ultra if you have yet to read my book.

And what else? So I get a lot of messages, emails from people that listen to the show and are new fans and say, I love the show. I really would like to be able to go back and listen to the earlier episodes. But when I go on iTunes, I can only see the most recent 50. How can I access episodes one through 49 or whatever it is? And really, the only way to do that right now is if you scroll through the archives on richroll.com, which is kind of a pain in the butt. So we have a solution for this. It's our new app. We're in the final stages of pushing it through the Apple development

process. I think we have one more gate we got to open. And then we're going to be live in the app store. And of course, I'll let you guys know when it's completely live. But just a few little comments about it. It's going to be completely free, totally free app. And it's going to have the entire podcast catalog on it. So you'll be able to walk around with your mobile device and access every single episode of the show all the way back to our humble beginning. So look forward to that. I want to support the show. Best way to do that is to tell a friend, just spread the word. That's all we ask. If you want to take it to the next level, use the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com. You can bookmark it in your browser so you don't always have to go back to my site. And then when it comes time to purchase something on Amazon, as we are all want to do from time to time, just use that link, our special link. It will not cost you a cent extra, but Amazon kicks

us some commission change and that really helps us out a lot. And I appreciate everybody who has supported the show this way. Thank you so much. You can also donate to the show by subscribing on a weekly or monthly basis. Any dollar amount that you choose, the show is free. It will always be free. So thank you so much to the people out there who have supported in this way. That is really amazing. Keep it up with the Instagrams. I love it when you guys post pictures of where and how you are enjoying the show. Just

tag me at Rich Roll or hashtag RRP or hashtag plant power, what have you, so I can throw some love your way. And as always, follow me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. I'm on all those good places. And if you've been listening to the show, you know that I've suddenly become enamored with Snapchat. I'm posting little videos there, little sort of slices of life, daily experiences out on a trail run, making a smoothie, visiting a vegan restaurant or enjoying time with my kids.

So if you're into that kind of thing, you can check me out there. My name on Snapchat is IamRichRoll, I-A-M Rich Roll. All right. In any event, just thank you guys. Thank you so much for all of your support. I can't believe we're on the cusp of 100 episodes. This has been a fantastic journey, and it's all because of you guys and the love and support that you've given this show. So,

thank you. All right, that's it. I'm going to close it out with this week's assignment on the theme of Robin's new magazine, Undo. I want you to think about the thing in your life that you want to undo, redo, or change. Identify that one habit, that practice, or that behavior that is not serving you. One thing. Don't make a list of a whole bunch of things. Just identify one thing, and it can be small. In fact, it's better if it's small. Something doable.

Set yourself up for a win, and just strike that off the list. Strike that behavior out of your life. Put it in the grave. It's tiny little changes that launch a thousand ships. And it's a powerful reminder that change is always possible. Always. We can always undo, redo, reinvent, and reimagine ourselves,

no matter where we are in life, how old or young we are. See you next week. Peace. Plants. Thank you.