The Rich Roll Podcast - Gary Vaynerchuk Works Harder Than You Do

Episode Date: March 7, 2016

Nobody works harder — and smarter — than Gary Vaynerchuk. That's because the maniac known online as Gary Vee operates on one mode and one mode only: full blast. Gregarious, confident and incomparably charismatic, Gary is never at a loss for opinions on everything from the future of social media and the preeminent importance of authenticity to his almost antiquated but refreshing take on the importance, power and relevance of a committed work ethic – a welcome breath of fresh air that stands in stark contradiction to our pervasive, myopic lifehack culture — a regrettable, technocrat popular trend that woefully overvalues false promise short cuts to success over passion, service and fidelity to the journey. Internet omnipotent with over 1.2 million followers on Twitter, 500K+ Facebook friends and a vast and loyal YouTube subscriber base, I suspect many of you are already daily consumers of Gary's persistent, relentless feed of videos, blog posts, social media updates, Snapchat stories and live casts. For those unfamiliar, Gary is a Belarus-born entrepreneur, venture capitalist and CEO of NYC-based VaynerMedia, one of the fastest growing digital ad & marketing agencies in the world. A mainstay on YouTube, Gary hosts the hugely popular #AskGaryVee Show and dons protagonist duties on #TheDailyVee, a surprisingly hypnotic, behind the scenes gander into Gary’s everyday business life. You've seen him profiled in the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, GQ, Time and Fortune's annual list of 40 under 40. You've watched him on Late Night With Conan O’Brien and Ellen. And maybe you've even read one his three New York Times bestselling books, Crush It*,Jab, Jab, Jab*, Right Hook*,The Thank You Economy* and now #AskGaryVee* – his newest offering which hits bookstores everywhere March 8. A compelling and entertaining distillation of practical, timeless workplace advice on entrepreneurship and management for anyone launching their own company, working in digital media, starting their first job or simply seeking inspiration, Gary's fourth book is certain to be a massive, ubiquitous success. A legitimate marketing & business genius, Gary is a kick in the pants – loud, irreverent and unconventional. But he’s also incredibly warm, personable and quite giving when it comes to freely sharing a seemingly endless stream of good ideas, tools and strategies he credits as part and parcel of his personal success equation. Conversing with Gary is a bit like trying to wrangle a wild horse, so this one is a bit all over the place. Enjoy! Rich

You gotta know what you're good at. That's the game. If I had a potion that could allow somebody to fundamentally become self-aware and know what they're good at, they would all win. That's Gary Vaynerchuk, and this is The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. How y'all doing out there in audio infotainment land? My name is Rich Roll, and it's not by accident that I am the host of this year's show, aptly titled The Rich Roll Podcast.

For the newcomer, this is the show where I sit down with the outliers, the big thinkers, paradigm-breaking minds and personalities across all categories of culture change, everything from health and wellness to fitness, nutrition, meditation and mindfulness, spirituality, art and creativity, and in the case of today's guest, business, entrepreneurship, and the incredible power and leverage inherent in the Internet to forge your own path to, in the words of my friend James Altucher, choose yourself. My goal, you ask? To help all of us discover, uncover, unlock, and unleash our best, most authentic selves. So thank you so much for tuning in today. I know there is a lot of content out there vying for your attention, your ears and your eyeballs and your hearts. And I don't take

you guys for granted, not for one second and greatly appreciate your decision to spend a little time with me today. And mad love shout out to everybody out there who has made a point of showing their support for this mission by making a practice of always using the Amazon banner ad on richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. Click the banner right there on each and every podcast episode page. It takes you to Amazon, buy whatever you're going to buy, doesn't cost you a single cent extra. But Amazon credits us with a little commission. It's a great, simple, easy, free way to support the work I do here each week, and it is greatly appreciated. So thank you very much. So really excited about

today's show. I got Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary V, as he is known on the internet. This guy is a bit of a maniac, and I say that in the best way. He is full speed ahead. He is an idea generating energizer bunny just bursting with ideas and opinions on everything from the future of social media to the importance, power, and relevance of a committed work ethic, which is a welcome breath of fresh air, in my opinion, in our life hack culture, a culture that really overvalues shortcuts to success, wealth, health, and happiness. And I got all kinds of additional things I want to say about Gary before we dive into the conversation. But first... All right, today's show. I suspect a lot of you, perhaps most of you, I don't know, already know Gary Vee due to his omnipotence on the Internet. The guy's got 1.2 million Twitter followers, half a million Facebook followers, a vast and loyal YouTube following, and he's one of the biggest names on Snapchat.

He's pretty hard to miss and never at a loss for words, opinions, or new ideas. But for those of you that aren't familiar with Gary, he is a Belarus-born entrepreneur and CEO of New York City-based VaynerMedia, which is one of the fastest-growing digital ad and marketing agencies in the world. He's also an angel investor and early-stage venture capitalist. He's a guy who got in early on Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr. That gives you an indication for his investing sensibility, his radar, his antenna. Gary's a mainstay on YouTube these days. He hosts the hugely popular Ask Gary Vee Show and is the

protagonist in The Daily Vee, which is a vlog on Gary's everyday business life. He's also a multiple New York Times bestselling author of several books, including Crush It, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, The Thank You Economy, and Ask Gary Vee, his newest book, which comes out this week and will no doubt be impossible to miss. He's been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, GQ, Time. He's appeared on Late Night with Conan O'Brien and Ellen. He's been named to Fortune's

list of 40 under 40 and Businessweek's list of 20 people every entrepreneur should follow on social media. I had a ton of fun with Gary when I was in New York City the other week. He is a marketing and business genius. He's a kick in the pants. He's loud, irreverent, unconventional. He's maniacal and somewhat fanatical, but he's also very warm. His energy is really infectious. And over the years, he has personally inspired me in my various entrepreneurial pursuits because he knows how to get things done and is very open and giving when it comes to sharing his ideas and his strategies.

Interviewing Gary is a bit like trying to wrangle a wild horse. So this one is a little bit all over the place, but it's also packed with some awesome gems. Some of the things we talk about today include the difference between lifestyle and life hacking, Gary's iconoclastic ideas about balance, life balance, what it means to day trade attention, the incredible impact of the internet on forging your own life path, his perceptions on the future of social media, the romantic allure of entrepreneurial life versus the day-to-day reality, and differentiating between valuable online content and online snake oil salesmen. So let's step into the VaynerMedia conference room made famous by his Ask Gary Vee show.

And well, ask Gary Vee some stuff. Yeah, I was just telling DRock that he's doing an amazing job. They're getting better and better and better. I just watched the most recent one this morning. And you're doing an amazing job of just crystallizing the most important parts of the day and doing it in a concise way. We're going to pound them in the other direction for the next one. Yeah. Like 34 minutes to just exhaust. We're finding, you know what I mean? We're going to pound them in the other direction for the next one. Yeah. Like 34 minutes to just exhaust. Like we're, we're, we're finding like, you know what I mean? We're going to do different balances. So here's slide up on that a little bit closer. Um, yeah, I'm interested in,

in how the YouTube journey has been since you started, uh, the daily V and what the idea behind that was, you know, it's just, it's the thought of like, to me, really DailyVee, more so than the Ask Gary Vee Show, was predicated on making sure people really know what's going on. I don't want to convince anybody to do it my way. I just want them to not be confused on what's really happening here, where every minute for 15, 16 hours a day is being used properly and hardcore. There is no watching funny YouTube videos. There is no hanging around, you know? Right, right, right. It's full on 24-7 with you. There is no watching funny YouTube videos. There is no hanging around, you know? Right, right, right. It's full on 24 seven with you. It is. And I think one of the things that I appreciate tremendously about your message is it is a, it's quite refreshing in this

culture of trying to hack your life and shortcut your way to, you know, whether it's a million dollars or six pack abs or whatever it is. The truth is, it takes hard work, man. And despite the fact that everybody wants that super secret VIP notion or idea or the 10 tips or whatever it is, there's no end run around what it actually takes to do something that inherently is going to have long-term value. Period. If that's what's said at my funeral, like what you just said, I'll be super happy. I've been working out every day and eating properly every day for almost two full years now, and I still have no chest muscle. I'm so damn pissed. I'm so pissed. I was telling Mike, I'm like, come on, when is this going

to happen? And it just kind of reminded me, I'm like, yeah, like for somebody that's never put in the kind of work day professionally that I have ever one time to do it every day for 24 months and just start seeing the beginnings of something has to be frustrating. I, uh, I was, I did a big weight day on Saturday. So I was able to eat a little bit. I gained four pounds, you know, and obviously there's water weight and things of that nature, but like, it takes me two weeks to shred that. And like, I'm like, Jesus, just one afternoon where I was able to act somewhat normal. And that's how work is, right? Like, like the bottom line is 99% of people that are listening to this right now Like the bottom line is 99% of people that are listening to this right now don't work hard enough for what they want in return.

That's all. There's a lot of lip service to the hustle, though. You know, it's easy to throw up an Instagram post with a quote on it or something like that. Oh, God. 24-7 hustle and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, the reality of most people's daily existence bears no resemblance to the kind of ethos that you're portraying pretty transparently and continually, you know, through your various channels. DailyVee is a big deal because it's the one that I get to really show people that, look, I mean, you can only manufacture so much. You can throw $50,000 in cash on a bed and take a picture on Instagram. so much. You can throw $50,000 in cash on a bed and take a picture on Instagram. You can go on a private jet.

You can rent $500,000 cars that aren't yours for an afternoon to make it seem like you're that. This is, like, the reason we're going to go with a 34-minute episode today instead of the 8 and 9. We did the 8 and 9s, to your point on DRock doing a good job, because, you know, you don't want

to bore people, and it's good to make great, he's making great content in that version. But, what gonna be 16 the one we're about to put out episode 16 yeah 16 i just want to i just want to make everybody realize like hey like it took you 34 minutes to watch this that's how much shit is going on in my day in and day out and it's every day every day every day forever And not that I want to say I'm a harder worker than anybody. Not that I want to say, this is how you should do it, John. This is how you should do it, Sally. It's that I just want people to not email me anymore and say, Gary, I've been working hard for two years and nothing's happening. When like, I will,

I'm funny. I get curious. And I look at their like social media and I'm like, you were home at 5.30 in the afternoon. I haven't been home in at their like social media and I'm like, you were home at 530 afternoon. I haven't been home in 530 in the afternoon since 1994. Well, I think that brings up an interesting point that I want to explore with you. And it's this idea of balance. Like I've been thinking a lot about balance lately. And, you know, conventional wisdom is, you know, you should eat a balanced diet and you should live a balanced life. And I know reflecting on my own life experience that the only time that I've actually ever accomplished anything noteworthy was when I allowed myself to be out of balance. And how do I reconcile that with kind of being able to continue to do what I do long term without burning out.

And then there's the variables of the other people that are closest to you, right? Like, to add one more layer to what you just said, which is exactly right, what starts happening when you have spouses and children and a million other things? I have four kids. So, you know, everybody has, you know, everybody's important. Listen, I am fundamentally willing to put myself out there to say that I'm not interested in the politically correct version of everything right now. I'm not interested in having a conversation around how to raise my kids. I'm not interested

in you imposing your will on me on how I should meditate. I'm not interested. I'm interested in making myself happy, which then will allow me to make the 10 people that are most important to me happy. And if that comes through workaholic behavior, then that's what it's gonna be because I don't know any other gear than to listen to myself. I wish I took my health more seriously in my 20s. I couldn't.

I just couldn't get there, right? I'm glad I did. Maybe tomorrow I decide that I wanna be a stay-at-home dad and that's what I'm gonna do. I mean, the fact of the matter is way too many people are trying to, and by the way, that's why I wanted to clarify upfront that what I'm doing with DailyVee, the hustle, the 24-7, not only is it not for most people, it's barely for anybody at the level that I go at. But what I don't want to do is get into this conversation where everybody has to find balance is defined

by a person like every single person's balance is predicated on one there's no universal balance like you know we all do it differently and so look by the way if i i need the action right you know like i need it right right like like you also have you have a battery that's unlike it's a different it's a different battery. And so I have to feed that battery. Like people don't understand. Like I can't, I can't go eight hours a day. Like I'll break. I'll be unhappy. I'll be depressed. And I think that's what distinguishes you from most people. And I think it gets confusing when people are inspired by your example. and they're trying to mimic that,

but it's at odds with their own personal constitution. 100%, which is why I'm trying to do a better job and saying, look, I'm going to post this out there. This is me. Don't be me. Be you is something I've been saying a lot more of. But at the same token, here's my big point. And this is probably the single most important point. Same token, here's my big point. And this is probably the single most important point. I am not allowed to cry about my lack of time with my family because I made my bed and I'm sleeping in it. That equally means I have no interest in hearing people cry about why their businesses aren't successful if they're working 40 hours a week. Right. Well, yeah, they're entering into a contract, a social contract with their profession and with their family life. And there's a my one of my best buds, his wife's dad

had a very simple life. He was home at four o'clock every single day. He works more and it's massive friction, because his wife grew up with that. And so for her, it's a foreign thing for my wife. You know, it's not a foreign thing. And it's not foreign for me either. And so you know, you've got what I know is that everybody has their own relationship. If I fell in love with a different gal who had a different upbringing, maybe I'd be living my life differently because maybe the lines that we drew in the sand would have been a little bit different predicated on our upbringing, our DNA, things of that nature. Yeah. Well, I think there's probably some confusion out there because you've made a conscious choice to not portray that aspect of your life and all the transparent things that you share, right?

That's sort of out of bounds. So it probably leaves people with question marks about how that functions. You know, and this weekend was the first time I did anything. I filmed episode 1001, and I had Misha there, and I kind of referenced her. I referenced both Xander and Misha in my Snapchat this weekend, which is unheard of for me. And it's true. I'm succumbing a little bit to the social pressure because I'm scared that people, like I want to do right by people.

I'm good. By the way, let's just understand one thing. I got real lucky. Like I'm always happy and I'm always good. You know why? I'm always going to do what I want to do. Now, I'm starting to feel a bigger always good. You know why? I'm always going to do what I want to do. Now, I'm starting to feel a bigger sense of responsibility as more and more eyeballs are on me.

And I'm trying to reconcile that because you're right. My wife and I have made a pact. I mean, it's very hard to find pictures of my kids that my wife, you know, just did a thing for CNBC. They wanted one little picture for one second of Lizzie because she has like packs my suitcase and it was like a reference. Wait, the answer is no. Like we're private about our family that way. Whereas I'm out 24 seven. And so

all the minutes that are like kind of lost when D Rock's doing his thing. You know, we D Rock allowed inside your house? Yeah, he's been in my house. But like, you know, it's like, it's a real thing, though. You know what I mean? It's a real thing. Even like being careful of like signage around the neighborhood of the kids schools when i go for like you know like nobody knows nobody sees the two hours i spent at the talent show last week in the morning which is hustle time 9 to 11 right um so i get it and i understand why people are trying to reconcile and understand it i guess my biggest point is some people have sick parents. Some people have college debt.

Some people grew up super rich and have no pressure and no ambition and no hunger. Some people are just super pumped with the way they have it. They love making $120,000 a year, which is incredible, by the way. And they love being able to be not dealing with a lot of pressure

of owning a business. Everybody's got it different. My big thing that I'm trying to figure out, and this is a fun interview because you're taking it to a cool direction for me and it's allowing me to think about it, not just in my own self, but through an interviewer asking,

I'm trying to figure out how to get the world into a non-complaining zone. I'm starting to- Good luck with that. But you know what? It is my ambition. I'm starting to realize what's happening with me, which is, ah, I know what, what's, what's driving me. I hate complaining and I'm not allowed to complain about all the things that I have to give up.

Like leisure, like leisure, like leisure is out the window. Like the jets are my only leisure. Yeah. But I don't think that you would be leisurely if you were given. Yeah, but I don't think that you would be leisurely if you were given leisure. Correct. My leisure is my business. 18 hours a day working every second is my happiness. I love it. I'm sorry that not everybody loves it. And you like skydiving or eating dinners or being on the basketball team. I'd rather be in two meetings challenging my brain trying to figure it out, win the game of business rather than golfing. I don't want to golf. I'm sorry. I don't want to meditate. I'm happy.

What's really important, though, is too many people's actions aren't mapping their complaining. Explain that. Sure. The amount of people that complain. Listen, both sides. Let me start with the one that most people don't think of I have a lot of ton of successful Workaholic friends who want to have dinner with me They think i'm going to be an empathetic year where they're going to start the whole entire first 30 minutes of our dinner Complaining that they don't spend enough time with their kids and i'm like fuck you

I'm, like you can spend you're plenty wealthy. You're plenty in control Just go start spending more time with your kids. There's nothing to complain about. Vice versa, the common thing that I think where people think I'm going to is just people complaining about the president or the economy or their assistant or the hundreds of things that are holding them back other than deploying real hard work against the singular things that they're best at to maximize their upside. And then by the way, the fundamental reconciling with not everybody is good enough to build a billion dollar business or even, do you know how few people are actually

capable of building a million dollar business? Not many. It's a stunning number. And in the ecosystem we live in, in this podcast universe, entrepreneurial universe, the social media universe, all of a sudden there's a misconception that anybody can do it. Yeah. I think that really is being fostered on a mass scale right now with the- You're damn right. The ascent of the entrepreneur as sort of this rock star and this aspirational lifestyle, ascent of of the entrepreneur as sort of this rock star and this aspirational lifestyle and you're kind of you know casting a different shadow on it and saying this is what it's really like it's not

it's not so sexy i'm trying to show my bags under my eyes at 1 30 in the morning at the atlanta airport and i'm saying look i'm pretty fucking wealthy and yet i'm sitting here like disgusted with my like death death of my day. It's hard. This is super hard. By the way, I haven't even gone into and I haven't figured out how to go into the real problem, which is the mental stress of running a business where there's 700 headaches.

I haven't been showing that with DailyVee, mainly because it affects a lot of other people. When I'm in a meeting and I'm deciding who to fire because they stink, it's not necessarily something I want to put out on the video a month before I actually fire that person. Right? So we haven't even gotten into the mental aspects of having the buck stop with you. The amount of people I know that don't want to be entrepreneurs, mainly because they're smart enough to know that the difference of pressure between a number one and a number two is staggering yeah well meditation might help you with that but but here's the good fun thing for me i'm super pumped with it like i'd even be like

i'm fine like what aspect of it like i'm i'm very comfortable with the pressure but i also know how many people aren't right meaning like i got you got it like i don't want to, I mean, I'm not showing it because I'm worried about myself. I'm not showing it because who gets affected by it. But for me, I recognize the stress of it. I just eat it for lunch. I'm built to eat stress. I love stress. Where does that come from?

Like maybe, you know- Hard and soft wiring. I think it comes from, I do think that I have a benefit of growing up with not a lot where my parents had real things to worry about. It's perspective, right? Hard to be upset about champagne problems, like million dollar business decisions when

you knew your parents had nothing, spoke nothing, lived in a studio apartment, smaller room we're in right now and didn't know where their next, you know, like we're scared. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I want to kind of explore the superhero origin story a little bit. I mean, a lot of people listening to this know your story, but there's going to be other people that you're brand new to them. Yeah, for sure, especially in this demo. Yeah. You want me to go into it?

Yeah, go for it. Look, I was born in the Soviet Union in Belarus. We came here in 78. The Carter years were full in effect. Economy was shit. Interest rates were through the roof. My dad was a construction worker in Russia. I thought he was going to do that here because he had a great uncle who was well off here. Great uncle dies while we're in Italy getting our paperwork.

Wasn't so easy for Russians to get into America during the Cold War. And we get here and he gets a job as a stock boy in a liquor store because that great uncle owned that store and his kids owned it and they didn't want to operate it or they had managers. This is in New Jersey? This is now in Clark, New Jersey. We live in Queens for the first year, year and a half. We then moved to Dover, which I never talk about for a year. Then we moved to Edison, New Jersey. So was your native tongue Russian? Yes. I'm speaking Russian at this point. And I'm going outside trying to learn English.

It's the early 80s. You're a five-year-old. Your mom sends you outside. You can literally be out there for five hours. It's just so different. And we moved to Edison, New Jersey in August of 82. So I'm six and a half, almost seven. And that's where kind of life begins.

I lived there until seventh grade. That's where I make my friend network. That's where I become a Jets fan. That's where I start showing my entrepreneurial wit with lemonade stands and baseball cards. That's where my dad becomes the manager of the store. That's where my dad buys a part of the business. That's where we start becoming, that's where I get Atari. That's where, you know, we have a townhouse instead of a studio apartment. That's where we have a townhouse instead of a studio apartment. That's where the American dream starts to unfold. Right. And the entrepreneurial spirit was just hardwired in you from the beginning. Listen, I truly believe it's a hardwired thing. I think for the amount of people that are listening

right now that never sold anything or tried to make a buck when they were in junior high or high school, I'm not as bullish on them as entrepreneurs. I just am not. I just don't think it's, and it's no different than anything else. I didn't try to sing when I was 6, 10, 11, 15. And so can I go take singing lessons right now? Yes. Can I become a much better singer than I am right now?

I think so. Does that make me even decent at singing? I don't think so. And so like, just because you go to business school or just because you listen to your podcast or just because you read 17 of my books or four or 17 business books, it means you could be the best version of yourself

in the craft of running business and entrepreneurship, which may not be enough to even be borderline successful. Right, right, right. I mean, this is real talk. Right. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I mean, the truth is most welcome because there is this, you know, this fostering that anybody can do it. You know why? Because there's a lot of people that can make a lot of money by selling people the system and the dream of it.

a lot of people that can make a lot of money by selling people the system and the dream of it. Mm-hmm. But right now we have this mass epidemic of people, and I want to continue with your story, but just to kind of launch on a little different trajectory for a second. Most people are stuck in jobs they can't stand. They're sitting in cubicles. They basically feel stuck in a life they're not even sure they consciously chose for themselves. And a message like yours or the other people out there that are entrepreneurs that are sharing kind of transparently online is very inspirational. So when you're speaking to that person who really wants a way out, they're not necessarily going to go found the next Twitter. But they're trying to find a better way this is what i wrote and this is what i'm trying to do right now on the bookends of kind of my career so far as a public figure is you're damn right and honestly those are the people so shit man

you're really hitting something important to me let's let's break that you know we got a little bit of time now this isn't my usual 15 minute interview so i got a little time. Let's really, really break this down. So you've got Rick. He's making $62,000 a year in his cubicle. He's got $100,000 in student debt with a huge interest rate that's about to kick in. He can't get out of it. And I understand why Instagram photos of some dude with chicks in Vegas or cash on a bed is very enticing. Let's really break this down. What Rick is getting fed right now by 90% of this market, all that a lot of people think looks like me,

is like me, says the same things as me, that I'm trying to very much clarify is the following. Rick is being sold, in his mind, or Rickette, in her mind, that they're gonna make big money. See, that's the problem. The problem is most people are not buying into the practicality of entrepreneurship. They're buying into the romance and the high end of entrepreneurship. Well, they're buying into the destination or the result as opposed to the daily grind and

the journey and the process. Here's what I think. I think the far majority of people that are listening right now, understanding a little bit about your audience, actually should become entrepreneurs or do entrepreneurial tendencies, but they need to understand they're trading their $62,000 a year job for a business that might make them $62,000. Or maybe what my hope is, and my belief, by the way, with the internet now, is an $80,000 to $90,000 gig, which is going to probably take more time working, not less. Oh is going to probably take more time working, not less. Oh, most certainly will take more time. But will be a hell of a lot more fun because at least it's on your rules.

Like you can actually work 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. if you're not a morning person and you don't have to wake up at 6.30 anymore to be at the office at 8 and sit in traffic for an hour. I just wish there was a bigger conversation, R-squared, around making 80,000 a year on your terms versus making 65 on theirs. Or how about this one, which I think is actually the wild one of the whole bunch. How about you're making a buck 10, but you're miserable, but it's paying your bills? How about making 87 instead of a buck 10, but being happy as shit? I take that trade all day long. I think so.

You know, and I think what you're saying really, but really what to distill it down, really what you're saying is there's a distinction, a very profound distinction between the sexy IPO versus somebody who's stuck in a dead end career or something that is not personally satisfying and trying to find a way by leveraging the incredible power of the internet and the democratization of sharing content to be able to have a little bit more control and domain. You're also talking to a guy who truly believes that if you go to the dollar store, the Goodwill store and garage sale on the weekends and sell it all on eBay, on the arbitrage between what you're buying and what you can sell it on eBay,

literally most people, if they discipline themselves and learn four or five genres, video games, clothes, artifacts, paper goods, can literally make 100K a year. I mean, if I ever made my bullshit ebook, that would be it. Because I really understand all the pieces of how to make 100K on eBay.

And that's a lot more money than a lot of people listening right now making in their year. Here's the other thing. And this that's a lot more money than a lot of people listening right now making in their year. Here's the other thing. And this one's probably even more important. Okay, let's take a step back to where I was. You're going to try to make 100k instead of 80k. By only going for 100k instead of a million, you're going to make the biggest single important decision in your life. And here's what it is. Most people right now, because they're going from 60K to try to go for a million, are doing very impatient behavior

in their first 24 months out the box. In what respect? They're looking for fast and cheap dollars. They're signing up for things that are not as noble. They're trying to sell people things they don't believe. Do you know how many people sell supplements that they have no idea what's in those supplements? for things that are not as noble. They're trying to sell people things they don't believe. Do you know how many people sell supplements that they have no idea what's in those supplements? Oh, most, most. I have some familiarity with how that industry works. It's crazy.

So between that, between Ponzi scheme activity, between trying to sell an ebook for $400, which is just five blog posts you found on the internet and they're free, when you're trying to rush, you start cutting corners and you start doing wrong things to other people. And what you start doing is you start tarnishing your name and your leverage and your long-term capability. You're running a sprint

versus a marathon because you're trying to make a million instead of 60,000. But how do you reconcile that against this idea that you should dream big and hold high aspirations for yourself? I think you should, but you should dream big and hold high aspirations for yourself. I think you should. But you should understand that there's not a single fucking person on earth that ever made it big in four minutes. Mm-hmm. Like, got it? Yeah, yeah.

Like, that's real. Yeah. Like, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird took 1,000 free throws when they were nine years old every day before they made the league. Right? Like, Whitney Houston sang every day for 11 years. Yeah, but Gary, who wants to do that? Who wants to do the work? Nobody.

Right? Why do you think there's so few people that win? Right. So is this the biggest misconception about you? Which is what? The idea that – Because I got – Let me couch it this way because I'm sure you get this question all the time.

Please. Oh, it must be easy for you, Gary. Look at all the stuff that you got going on and you have this energy that I don't have and you don't understand my problems. Yes, but I think that's everybody about everything, right? Look, I don't think I'm very good looking and I think that every good looking person born is already in a better place than I am. I secretly wish I was a hot chick.

I would so know how to navigate life with that. And so- You probably wouldn't have that battery then, though. Yeah, I mean, listen, the truth is, I used to think that, but it's amazing to me how many of my best investments are very attractive female entrepreneurs. Like, everybody's different,

and you've got different circumstances that have happened in your life. Here's my punchline. I'm not too worried about people saying to me, you don't get me, you had it easier. They don't know, right? And I don't blame them for not knowing. And the truth is, I don't care.

And I don't care not because I don't care. I don't care because I now have lived my life for 10 years in public and I realize, boof, it's super hard to get people. I mean, the level of frustration. Do you know the other night, I know I'm bouncing here. I went back and read the first comments of DailyVee one and two and everybody's like, oh.

And these are people that have been following me for seven years. Oh, oh, that's what it takes. And I'm like, motherfucker. I've been pounding this message every day in every angle that I can think of. And it took this to get people to kind of a little bit, because there's a level of cynicism. And there's a little, there's a heavy level of self deprecation and pity. That is really riding. I mean, it's I'm watching this presidential,

like kind of race right now. Do you know, I've never thought that the president like the the level of give a shit that I have to who's going to be the president is zero. In the sense that – In the sense that I know they have no impact on my life. Right. It's not going to determine how you're going to live. That's right. So to abdicate that power to this person that's going to hold this chair is really to almost on some level play victimhood.

At the highest levels, man. You know, I said something the other day on the Ask Gary Vee Show or somewhere and somebody, three or four people have tweeted about it. I said it so quickly, I didn't even think about it, but it's something I've never said publicly, that it was so my truth, which was, in my 20s, I spent every minute not dating, not having fun, to get even with my parents, to get whole with them. I wanted to give back to them

what they gave to me. And so I've lived my whole life where I don't want to owe anybody anything. I don't want anybody to have any leverage on me. You know, I want to be whole. I want to over deliver. It's the reason I've become popular. I've become popular because it's hardwired in me to give you more than I ask in return. Well, that's the principle behind jab, jab, jab, right?

100%. And the big punchline of the right hook is if it doesn't land, be cool. You know, like, it's so amazing to me how easy it is for me to reconcile when somebody doesn't come through for me, even though I've paid forward so much. I mean, things that should never happen. It's going on right now. Sending people emails that I've done a lot for in the last two years. I'm like, hey man, my book's coming out. I really want to crush it. I want to sell all time highs. You know, I'm trying to be like nice and say things like, hey, and I'm going, hey man, my book's coming out. I really want to crush it. I want to sell all-time highs. I'm trying to be nice and say things like,

hey, and I'm going direct. This is one-on-one. This is not a bulk email. I'm like, hey, Rick, how's Susan? Remember the other night? Glad that million-dollar deal I made happen for you is going great. Like really pouring it on.

Hey, I'd love for you to buy 80 books. It would mean a lot to me. Give them out at the office. 80, by the way, is about a third of what I think on paper, if a judge and jury judged how much he should buy for what I've given. Right, somebody's keeping track of. And then they'll reply, hey man, 80's too tough,

but like, I'd love to get one or send me one and I'll give you a tweet. And I'm just like- I love that, send me one. So, you know, but it's stunning to me and I've had three or four of them already happen the last week because I'm really in it right now. And I'm like, cool.

I get, like, it's funny. Like, I don't know what's going on in Rick's life. What if it looks good on paper but Rick just made a bad business deal and his company's about to go out of business? What if Rick's mom just got diagnosed with cancer? What if Rick is super sad because his wife's cheating on him?

What if Rick's super insecure and even though it's going good right now, he's, so I don't judge. I don't let anybody else have an impact on me. I don't consume anybody else's content. I haven't, I just do me. I put it out. I understand why everybody's feedback on me is pro con confused, pumped. The big thing that I love though, is that anybody that really digs or sticks around, I win. And I think that's the real testament to what I think of my tried and true, old school, lunch pail, put in the work, bring value. But most of all, the thing that I want for most people listening as I try to like bring a good interview here, you got to know what you're good at. That's the game. If I had a potion that could allow somebody to fundamentally become self-aware and know what they're good at, they would all win. Most people don't know that though. And most people are so disconnected from who they are

that they're not even sure what it is that they would pursue if given the opportunity. You know what I mean? So there's a lot of, I think it's almost, it's not lazy, but it's very easy to talk about inspiration. Like, oh, I'm inspired to do this or this person inspires me. But I think most people don't know what to do with that inspiration. They don't know how to translate that into tangible action and creating a, you know, forward momentum and a solid trajectory for their life because they're not sure what that should look like for themselves. I get it, man. And you can't answer that question for somebody else.

And I want to, but I can't. They have to know that themselves. It's really why I started Ask Gary Vee because I wanted to get out of rah-rah keynotes and just get into tangible, like hoping that if I just gave them a blank slate of ask me anything and I'll answer it. And I've been able to get much more tactical on that show and give them black and white things they can be doing. The problem is the one thing I haven't been able to deploy at scale in pockets I have is patience. Patience is the secret potion once you understand what to do. And I referred to it earlier of like, don't go into the quick buck. And I really get frustrated with the 18 to 30 year olds.

They have time. I can feel a little bit better about Rick, 52 year old Rick, who's in the cubicle right now listening and has decided to make the jump because Rick's feeling the pressure that he's 52. But these 19 year olds, these 26 year olds that have all their life in front of them, they're not willing to eat shit for four years and work hard and punt it. That to me is like, fuck, man. Well, that's the entitlement generation. You know what I mean? But you know what? I will say this. I have 600 millennials that work for me here at Vayner.

I don't think they're any more entitled than the generation before them. I'm 40. I have nothing but entitled 40-year-old friends. I think it's the human US thing. Yeah. My experience with millennials, and I'm around a lot of young people all the time, is that I find them incredibly resourceful. And I find them to care about important things that people in our generation just don't give a shit about. Yeah, they've been great about that.

And look, I mean, a lot of these kids are drinking $12 juice, going to Coachella and taking Ubers all day, but they live in a studio apartment with no TV. They're definitely living differently. But I don't think the cliche thing that everybody's got in millennials, like hard work and things, I got 400 hard workers here that are bleeding out of their eyeballs. So I think it's the context of the game they're playing within. I think that there's a real misnomer right now of what's really happening. We're living through the single biggest culture shift we've ever lived through. Like the internet is a big deal. And it's only 20 years old. What you and I are doing right this second

was inconceivable just a decade ago. Absolutely. I mean, I think that it's easy to talk about it, but I don't think any of us can quite comprehend just how profound it is. 100%. It's my biggest belief. It's unbelievable the tools that are at the behest of any single individual and the power that they carry to transform lives. It's unbelievable. I would have never, like none of what's going on with me would have happened.

Myself as well. I would just be on my fourth liquor store in New York, Chicago. Like I would just be building a bricks and mortar liquor store in this. Listen, I'd still make a lot of money. Like I would have figured that out, but I did figure that out before the internet. You wouldn't be making a cultural impact. No, I would not have the legacy that I'm going to have. I'm not going to have the amount of, the amount of people that are going to show up to my funeral, which is really my North Star, is going to be far greater because I can reach so many more people at no cost. I mean, look, look.

I mean, DRock's filming. You're recording. We're doing TV and radio right now. At the same time. I mean, do you know how expensive that was 20 years ago? Like, studio time. Like, it's just incredible what we can do now. Reaching I mean, there's people listening to this from all over the world. It's unbelievable.

Do you get frustrated when you meet with these fortune 500 companies, and you're trying to explain to them that their ad buys to place, bets on traditional television commercials is an outmoded use of resources and time. I mean, it seems obvious to me, but when you're butting up against that kind of infrastructure and tradition, it's got to wear you down, I would imagine. Let me get a lot. I know a lot of your audience I've been watching doesn't cross over and has never heard of me before, so I'm going to go really fast so I can answer that question to give you guys a little context. My dad finally owns a liquor store.

I launched one of the first e-commerce wine businesses in America called winelibrary.com in 96. 98 to 2003, in a five-year window, I grow my dad's business from a $3 to a $60 million wine store. YouTube comes out. I decide it's going to be a big deal. I was right about e-commerce. People thought the internet was a fad. I was right about email marketing. People were doing catalogs. I was right about Google AdWords. People didn't know what it was. And so I started building up confidence that I was a great marketer, not just a great retailer. YouTube comes out. Less than a year after YouTube came out, ironically, 10 years ago yesterday of the recording of this, I start this show called Wine Library TV, where I'm basically talking about wine.

It becomes hugely successful. YouTube sells to Google for $2 billion. I go, holy crap, I can see the future. The next time I see something, I'm going to invest so I can make real money. That next thing happens four months later. It's called Twitter. I invest. I invest in Facebook. I invest in Tumblr. I get really smart. Clearly, I made a lot of money with that. I amass a million followers on Twitter. I write a book called Crush It that went super viral. A year on the New York Times bestsellers list. I end up being good at public speaking. So I start doing speeches. That becomes a big deal. Big brands start reaching out to me. Hey, you have 400,000 followers on Twitter. We're Pepsi. We have 50, 50, five, zero, not 50,000. How do we, how do we use Twitter?

What is Twitter? So I start a company called VaynerMedia, which is where we're sitting right now. My brother and I started six years ago. We are basically Mad Men 2016. We're an advertising agency, but we do the creative, the pictures and the videos. We do the ad placement and we do the strategy for the biggest brands in the world, GE, Pepsi, Fox Studios for movies, Turner, big, big brands, Unilever. And we are basically their marketing engine for Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Pinterest, Instagram, Snapchat. And so when R-squared, as I like to call you in my brain, asks me that question, I'm living in a world where $8 billion a year is being spent on television and not a single person that's listening to this right now watches a single commercial, meaning a commercial may play,

but you're looking at your phone, you're not paying attention. You either fast forward it using TiVo or you immediately stare at your phone. Correct. Until the commercial's over. And so I like to tell people that I day trade attention. If you really want to sum me up, guys, if you want to get a feel of what my spiel is, I day trade attention. Meaning I'm always trying to pay attention to where the end consumer is spending his

or her eyes and ears. And I try to produce content on those platforms on the arbitrage of it being underpriced compared to what the market thinks. So that's why I'm obsessed with Snapchat because the market still fully doesn't understand how valuable it is. It's why podcasting was good two years ago. If you look at the people that popped up, they won because they bought podcasting when it was underpriced. I did it on Twitter. I did it on email marketing. I did it on Google AdWords. I did it on YouTube. I did it on Facebook. I've done it a lot and that's where my wealth will come in. And so, yes, I do get very frustrated. I'm dealing with 42 to 60-year-old executives who went to Kellogg or Chicago University were taught what, you know, all

this bullshit math from Nielsen's and RPGs and this, that, and the other thing, GRPs, not RPGs, GRPs, gross rating points. Like there's no real data behind it. Yeah, and trying to translate the importance of them focusing on Snapchat is got to be a challenge. Now, Facebook's the one that makes me most frustrated because Facebook is television. Facebook is mass scale. Facebook is direct mail. I don't mind them not getting Snapchat yet, especially if you're selling 50-year-olds on something. You don't need to be there. But if you're trying to sell a 13 to 25-year-old anything in America today,

Snapchat needs to be the core of your strategy. Yeah. And you're extremely bullish on this and have come out hard and fast and strong all day long on shouting this message from the mountaintops. How is that being received? You know what's funny? Well, I think, you know, I've been taken aback. What really happened this time around was I haven't shouted this loud about something in a long time. I've been surprised how many people have like all the marketing people are jumping on board on Snapchat pretty quickly. A lot of people making jokes that about my impact on it. But what I didn't realize was, you know, all these people that have been influenced by me are now big. They have their own podcast. They have their own shows. They have big social networks. So they

get influenced by me. They've seen it. They've seen this rodeo before. They're shouting out it. So it's a long tail effect. But the truth is is i'm not worried about my impact on the market or how it's being received i just want to be historically correct right i'm not worried about 2016 i'm worried about 2020 when everybody looks back and says uh gary was the first guy that really pushed me to get serious about this and i'm by the way we're we're two months into this and i probably get one to two tweets or Facebook messages already saying, you're the one that pushed me to Snapchat. It's already the most important platform for me. I've already made a sale or this, that, the other thing.

And so it's been fun to watch. That's cool. Is this part of the new book or was the new book already written by the time this epiphany occurred to you? I'll say it here on the record forever. I will never shout about something like I did with Twitter

or like I did with Snapchat for any other motive than being historically correct because that's where I make my most money. It's not about an investment I make. It's not about my show. It's not about a book coming out. It's strictly because I believe it.

And I know that in four years when everybody ties back the loose ends, they go, he was already again, once again, that's my narrative. The only thing I want is for everybody to think and know and to be proven to be true, that I see things just a little bit sooner than most. I figure out how to use them a little bit better than most. And that I'm a very valuable person to pay attention to because of that. It's interesting how these tectonic plates shift over time, right? Because for a long time, I was all about Twitter. And now I've noticed, and I don't know what your experience has been, but the engagement

level that I get on Twitter is a small fraction of what it used to be, even though my follower count is higher. And I've gone back to Facebook where I get much more engagement. And I thought that was a relic. But now I'm much more invested in that as a way of communicating with people. Because I day trade attention, I am just constantly looking at it. You know, I've been yelling about, you know, Snapchat. The thing I was yelling about last year and the year before was Facebook.

And, you know, if you go watch the first 150 episodes of the Ask Gary Vee show, it's a Facebook propaganda machine, mainly because it was working and it worked. And it makes sense to me to hear you say that. If I would have done Ask Gary Vee in 2009 and 10, it would have been a Twitter propaganda machine. So yeah, I'm watching it on a daily basis. And by the way, the stuff shifts fast. Like it can move on you quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm watching it on a daily basis. And by the way, the stuff shifts fast. Like it can move on you quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I just feel like Twitter, everyone's talking and no one's listening. That's right.

Which is why I'm listening. And that's where I'm getting value out of Twitter right now. I've really shifted back to 2007 behavior on Twitter. What I mean by that is I'm basically now going, I went four years only looking at my mentions and engaging with people and then putting out stuff. I've gone back to following a lot of people, watching what they're talking about, and then engaging on what they talk about to get them to pay attention to me again. Yeah, I think that's a big distinction between you and a lot of other people that have gigantic

followings. Because I think the presumption would be you're a broadcaster, but you're really not. You're far more interactive than most people that have over a million followers. I mean, you're known for responding to tons of people, even sending them video responses. You love doing that. You sent me one of those one time. And it's great because it makes people feel like, oh, man, he actually like read my thing and he took a moment to respond. And the impact of that is tremendous.

It's a triple win. Number one, I don't follow anybody else. So I'm following people to make my decisions about where marketing is going. So I need it. The reason I'm so good at listening is because I need the listening. I value the listening. I don't want to read Ad Age or read one of the other 50 authors in my space to make my decisions because I feel like I'd be slow.

For me to be fast, remember, it's really interesting how I positioned what I just said earlier. Just a little faster than everybody, just a little bit better. That's enough for me to be much more valuable. I want the most important tastemakers, the top 50 people on the,

you know how much pride I get when I look at the top 50 business podcasts and I know, not I guess, I know how much all of those people follow me for some of their decisions and their tactics. I mean, it's super, you know, it's super, it's super cool. And it's super doc, you know, if I ever got into a debate of its truth, it's all documented. I'm like, look, here's what I did on Snapchat. Oh, look, here's what this person, this person, this person, this person did the following month.

Like it's like, there is no mention. They're following you in lockstep. That's right. Yeah. And so that's important to me. That's leverage. That's power. That's how I see myself.

And I think the reason I'm able to do that is I'm watching people, not pundits. So as I'm following everybody and I'm watching what they're saying, I'm watching what they're saying about me. Now I'm starting to actually more than ever look at what they're saying about other people and other issues. That gives me time to reply very quickly. I know it matters to people because effort is what matters more than anything. And so if you make a video, they're like, woof. First of all, too many people outsource their social. So a lot of people, if they get a tweet from somebody famous, they're not sure if that's the person's assistant or it's them.

So one, I like to prove that it's always been me and always will be me. That's number one. Number two, yeah, I think that makes them care more. I really do. I think in a world where they could listen to anybody, the person that listens to them and adjusts to them is more valuable to them than the person that posts something through their assistant, never looks at it, and it's just a broadcasting mechanism. Well, authenticity is the most important thing, right? And the moment that you lose that connection with authenticity, you lose the whole ballgame, I think. And I don't think

enough people appreciate that or respect that fact or understand that the millennials, all these people that are working in your office, have the most highly attuned antennae and radar for this kind of thing. And they can sniff out bullshit from 10,000 miles away. And that must inform how you message these companies about how they message their customer base. 100%. I mean, it's yes. I mean, I don't know. You led me to the well. The answer is yes. And I think the other thing that happens, and I wonder for people that are listening that have

gotten some micro notoriety, which is what I think I have, maybe a little bit more than others, but still, I'm not Beyonce, right? I'm taking one to three selfies a day in public, not 700. When Beyonce goes for it, she goes for it big. It's like a NSA data dump when she hits Instagram. I think that what's most fun for me is that I get extra credit now for just being who I always was. When I'm like running through the streets and somebody can see I'm busy, they're like, hey, I love your show. And I stop and I go, what's your name? Shake their hand, take a selfie. They're like, oh my God, you're such a nice guy. And I always tell my friends or like, you know, I went out to dinner the other day with my friends and it was an exceptionally

good day for my brand, which by the way, for my ego is the greatest feeling of all time. Going out with friends, having four people take a selfie with you. They're like, whoa, you're really, you know, wow. Right. And I'm like, yeah, it's going pretty well. And what, what I told them after the fourth one, I was like, look, and they saw how people reacted. And I said, you know, what's most interesting. I think that notoriety, fame, money, it only exaggerates who you actually are. You know, like, I think that it's funny for me to see people be surprised that I want to be nice or that I care. It's so sad that that's the cynicism around fame or wealth. And I actually think those things just, Ice Cube, I was at a Knicks game. He's sitting a couple over, I'm super pumped, I love rap.

You know, Compton just came out. He was pumped to take all those selfies it's just who he is right like and so i just think that i think that uh it's fun when you start winning a little bit and you get extra credit for things that you shouldn't get credit for just being who you are i mean you know the the the the transparency the transparency of the internet uh is sort of dispensing with that notion of what you're like when the camera's on versus what you're like when the camera's off. Well, I don't know about that. That's actually the other thing for me. I've been stunned watching how good people are of creating the PR version of themselves on social versus who they actually are. But don't you think those millennials can sniff that?

Sometimes. Not as much as I'd like. I mean, yes. And with brands, yes. But something happens when it's a celebrity or a micro celebrity that I think makes them hope or want. But they're not actually like that. Who is killing it? When you look at when you kind of canvas. Taylor Swift. Yeah. Taylor Swift. Why? Because she's playing the when you kind of canvas. Taylor Swift. Yeah. Taylor Swift. Why? Because she's playing the thank you economy. She knows that surprise and delight and these micro moments carry more weight. She knows when she stops by a fan's house out of nowhere, that she's not just affecting that fan, that she's going to get press around it,

and she's affecting 10 million people's point of view on her. And by the way, that's how I think about it. When I reply to you, I know that nine other people that follow both of us saw it and they're affected by it. And how much of that is calculated on her part or is just a natural outgrowth of who she is? The reason I think she's like that is the same reason for me. It's not that it's calculated, it's just that I'm aware. There's a lot of things that i'm aware of or i could be calculated that i don't do because it doesn't come natural to me so i just think i think i don't know her well enough but i know a lot of people that know her well enough and that i know very well that make me feel comfortable that she just got lucky she also is a nice person

who's hyper talented who understands the benefit of it because she's ambitious as fuck, but she genuinely likes to do it too. Like I genuinely love everybody who's, like, look, can we just take a quick step back? What human, unless you, and listen, some are introverts, some don't like, but if you like being around people as a precursor, who doesn't love somebody desperately wanting to spend a minute with you? Like it's intoxicating. Like when I walk through an airport Who doesn't love somebody desperately wanting to spend a minute with you?

It's intoxicating. When I walk through an airport and somebody makes eyes on me and I can tell they know and they're just trying to be, maybe they'll give a head, it's like the greatest high. You're doing something that people appreciate and they like you so much they want to acknowledge you or even stop and say hello. Or the thousands of times now in my career, people have tweeted like, just saw Gary Vee at the Shake Shack. I wish I should have said hello or it was cool to see him. And I reply. And you're like, why didn't you say hello? Yeah. And so, you know, yeah, it's super nice. I don't know what human wouldn't love it. No, it's amazing. So who out there, conversely, do you wish you could bring in here and wring their neck

and say, why are you doing this? If you just did this, everything would be so much better for you. There's a ton of people who are my contemporaries, who I would call my acquaintances more than my friends, who are selling bullshit and it bothers me. And I don't want to, you know, I'm not going to put them on blast here, but I would tell you a stunning percentage of the people that have big followings on social who are in the business self-help, you know, are really pushing the envelope further than I'm comfortable with of trying to monetize. And I've started talking about like, look, and I've started talking about like look paying 20 or 30 thousand dollars a month or a year to be in a mastermind is intriguing to me when there's so much free and look do I look do I

think I could charge 50,000 and have a group of people that I consulted and make it work their while I do and so I'm not sitting in those groups and I'm not going to those off sites and I'm not seeing how they're interacting so I don't know which is why the biggest and I'm not going to those off sites and I'm not seeing how they're interacting. So I don't know, which is why the biggest reason I'm not willing to put anybody really on blast is I'd have to take the time to fully know everything they're doing to feel comfortable. No, I get it. And I'd love to camp out here for a minute because this is something that affects me personally, because as somebody who's a podcaster and, and an author and making videos and all this kind of stuff uh you know i'm always paying attention to what other people are doing and i've noticed this like uh ascension of these

mastermind groups where people are paying a lot of money to be part of these this tribe that then all supports each other and and something inherently cool about that like they're getting together and it's a support network for each other. But at the same time, I also see like work product out there that I question the quality level of that's being priced in the market at an extremely high price and like very hyped. And I see all these marketing tools being utilized through like, you know, incessant emails and these like you get stuck in this email chain that you can never escape of until you like get that hard sell, you know, buy here button and all of that kind of stuff that's going on on the internet that I've really stayed away from, you know, because

it just doesn't feel right to me. And I could probably like growth hack what I'm doing by participating in that. But I just, I can't like on a spiritual level, like I just, I can't do it. I don't think anybody, because I think I'm as good of a marketer as anybody is going to make an ebook worth 900 bucks. There's no way. There's no way there's too much good free. Like if you just listen to every podcast in the top 25 business podcasts, you'll get more value than any one of those things. So it's hard.

There's something human in that that they think like because it's so expensive, people want to spend that money. Now you're getting to the thing that probably frustrates me the most, which is literally right now as we speak, somebody just bought a $400 Snapchat guide ebook that is completely out of the words of my mouth in the last 50 episodes of Ask Gary V, Daily V, and my Snapchat that somebody else took, repackaged, sold for 400 bucks. And I'm watching too and are leaving comments like, this is so great, and then coming to my, and there are fans of both, and then saying, Gary, why don't you give any details? And it's the, if you really want to get upset about it,

you could get really sad for the current state of the marketplace because you start realizing the reason so many of these people are able to pull it off is because the end consumer is looking for a dream. Nobody's going to subscribe to me that's looking for a shortcut. Because I call them out too much and I talk too much about hard work and I become exhausting on, like, it's already happening. We're only 15 episodes into DailyVee and already the comments are, hey man, enough already of talking about hard work.

We get it. You work harder than us. Fuck you. And I'm like, you so don't get it. I'm like, you just don't want to, you want to hear, I'm going to give you a 10 month program and you're going to make a million dollars and you're going to get 40 people underneath your tree and you're going to fucking sit on the beach and all these other people are going to work and you're going to make a million bucks because you manipulated them to work and not you. I mean, it's fucking ludicrous. People want good news about their bad habits. They want to believe that if they spend that money, they will be given the answer and the shortcut. And that applies to whether it's your career or entrepreneurship or whether it's diet that you can eat X, Y, and Z and still lose all the weight that you want to lose and not have to work out. As human beings, we're just – we're so predictable that way.

100%. And it's so easy to play that core. The lottery works for a reason. Right. Yeah, exactly, right? I mean, I look at most of the people in our space as similar to the lottery and I get it. And you know what? What's funny is I don't begrudge them or the individuals that follow. I get mad at the few, the five handfuls that I can think of right now that I've

seen comment on both. And I'm just like, man, you've lost. You'll never make money. You're going to keep taking your hard earned money that you're miserable making and deploying it down wells that have no shot. And you're going to look up in three years and be like, what the hell happened? The people that win with my content are the ones who suck out everything I say for a year or two, then put their head down for 18 hours a day, and then pop back up three years later and start needing more content for me

because they've taken the first step. And now they're looking at how to get from a hundred thousand to a million because they've realized it's tactical. It's work ethic. It's those things. And it's been interesting to watch for me from afar, the people that win and the people that lose based on my content and the rest of the market's content. Well, I think there's long-term success versus short-term success with flame outs, right? So

my whole thing is whatever I'm doing, whether it's a podcast or a book or a blog post or a video, I'm just trying to make the best thing that I can and put it out there. And there's probably some tools and tactics that I could employ to attract more attention to that. But I'm in it for the long run, man. And I'm not willing to alienate my audience by playing to them too hard to try to attract that attention. It also depends. And I have a belief that over time I will congregate the tribe that is interested in what I have to say. It also matters what kind of audience you want. Like, I want to be proud of the people that follow me and spew my spiel.

You know, like you are who you like, you know, hang out with. I think the audience makeup is quite important. I mean, the kind of person that's attracted to what you have to say. Look, there's a different, there's a reason that with my book coming out in a little bit or out now, depending on when you hear this, that I'm going to be on Fox and CNN and CNBC and Inc and Fast Company and Fortune 500 CEOs that are active, not like are quoting me and like company. There's a very big difference between who buys my stuff than what a lot of the contemporaries look like. And I'm proud of that. So maybe I won't sell as many or, you know, make as much short term money. But I laugh when I laugh when people debate how much money I make versus somebody else that looks like me that's playing a short-term game because I'm like, you're just judging today.

I'm like, let's talk in 2020. Yeah, a year later, two years later, three years later, who's still buying your book? Not to mention VaynerMedia, which I've built from scratch with my brother, is a $300 million to $400 million valued company. In parallel to building my brand, I've built $100 million revenue that trades at 3x revenue in the agency world business. My whole life isn't being Gary V. I'm much more Gary Vaynerchuk, CEO of VaynerMedia, than I am Gary V. And what's so interesting about that is that you've really exploited what is truly a niche in other advertising agencies, their social media department.

Yes. And you understood, no, that's the whole thing. Because social media is a slang term for the current state of the internet. Like the mobile device is the most important device that delivers the internet now. And half of our activity on it is social networks. It's the most important device that delivers the internet now. And half of our activity on it is social networks. It's the most important thing. And so the word seems small because it's new and there's a lot of hucksters in it. Um, but it's just, again, I don't get caught up in the world word. Like I'm marketing on the internet, you know, the internet that

matters now, Facebook, Snapchat, like nobody's going to forums. I mean, there are, and plenty of you are on forums. That's fine. But the mass attention is on these platforms and you have to know how to market on them. What do you think is the biggest mistake that either individuals or brands are making in their relationship to social? That they don't understand the context of each individual platform and thus they don't know how to act in the room. Right. So think about think about not ever going to a meditation retreat and showing up like a business guy and passing around business cards right right got it uh-huh or or being a hippie dippy and walking into a fortune 50 boardroom and try like so many of my friends like gary i want to do what you do with vayner media i'm like cool

go try to walk in with that 80 ebook uh or your fucking white-labeled supplements into fucking Pepsi. You get laughed at in a room in one second. And so, you know, it's understanding the context. And that's the same thing that happens. If you don't know how to market or produce content on Snapchat versus Facebook versus Instagram, well, then you're going to lose. And so they're all different. Right.

This idea that they're all the same is crazy. Yeah. They all have their own etiquette and rule book. That's right. And think of it as a person. Like you're going to act very differently in this room right now. We're doing a professional thing. Then if me and you go to Hawaii for the weekend to hang out or the way you would act with your best friend on a trip to Iceland for a week or the way you're going to take your spouse out to dinner. So like everybody, everybody's got

a lot of dimensions in their personality, but they deploy it based on the room they're in. And I think the thing that I've done really well is I've understood the context of each platform. And then I know how to make the pictures and the videos that work on that platform, because I respect the psychology of the person on the other end of what they may be thinking when they're in there. When you're on LinkedIn, you're thinking business. But when you're on Facebook, you might be hanging out with your college friends or keeping up with your life. And on Instagram, you might be looking for soft porn or inspiration, right? Or Snapchat, you're just looking to be entertained like television.

Or Snapchat, you're just looking to be entertained like television. So where is it going? Like what's next? What's beyond the horizon that you're seeing? I think we continue with these. Over the next 10 years, I think we see two to three more Snapchat Instagrams pop up that we can't think of, which is great because I'll be first and I'll be best. You'll see certain things. Does Twitter become MySpace? Maybe.

I think you can see one or two of these. Tumblr and Twitter were much more important three years ago. So we'll see one or two fall away. And then I think we'll go into a VR world a decade from now. So I think 10 to- That's inevitable. Yeah, I think so. That's for sure.

So I think we're going to be wearing contact lenses, not headsets, 10 to 20 years from now. And this interview, we would be both in our home instead of a VaynerMedia right now. And we would really feel like we're here together. Right. That's just a mind blower. It's a mind blower because then you start, you know, one of the biggest reasons I've been thinking about buying real estate in San Diego is I'm like, hmm, when I'm 60 in 20 years, I really do think everybody's going to be able to do

everything they want where they are. And so then why not be in nice weather places when you don't put your content, when you're living your real life or your fake life, which is your real life. I mean, what is real? Well, no, it's really, it's really intense. And I know we're getting Zen here, everybody. Let me get out of the interview for a second. I understand that this sounds insane, but let me paint you a picture.

Zen here, everybody. Let me get out of the interview for a second. I understand that this sounds insane, but let me paint you a picture. If you told people in 1980, the way we live today, actually, let's go 1990 because I want to soften the gap. 25 years. If you in 1990 told people about smartphones and Uber and Airbnb and amazon.com and same day delivery and social network and tinder and online dating and like all you know they would their head would explode no i remember when 25 years ago it it was even sooner than that i mean even when everybody had their cool little nokia phone it was like everything's gonna be mobile and i and i remember thinking like how is that how is that gonna work like i don't want to do everything on my phone and now i'm traveling for this is the first year 2016 i'm traveling without my laptop i'm doing everything on my phone and like my laptop was the extension of me and that was

progressive traveling with a laptop right um yeah i think i think augmented reality vr is going to blow people's minds i think video games and entertainment, movies, video games gets affected first, but I can see business right behind it. It's going to be very interesting. Porn, I think the porn industry, which always innovates. I know this is a silly topic, but you know, the porn industry.

Well, virtual reality and porn is- You got to understand, your brain thinks it's 98% real. And so I assume you've been playing around with all the prototypes and everything. All of them. And it's the first time that I feel the way I felt about the internet, which is like, okay, this is going to change the world. But I do think it's going to take 10 to 20 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So other than your hard work ethic and your Energizer Bunny disposition, what do you attribute, what sort of characteristics about who you are do you attribute your success to? Like what is it about you that's allowed you to kind of grow and thrive? Empathy. Interesting. I really know what the other person's thinking and I know what they want and I reverse engineer it. That's a great answer, man. I wasn't expecting that one. Good one, right?

Yeah, that's good. It's probably my biggest secret sauce. And what do you think holds most people back? In general? Yeah. Self-esteem. They just don't think they're worth it. They don't think they're good enough.

And I think their parents fucked them up, which pisses me. I feel lucky. A lot of my friends get mad when I talk about luck. They're like, Gary, you've been working your face off since, you know, a lot of my friends know me since I was 14. They know that I've been gone since 14. I have friends who know that I've been gone since 14, which was the year where I lost my weekends and my vacations because my dad made me work at the liquor store. And they're like, how can you say luck? You've been fucking doing this for 25 years.

We were still kids. Like we were going to camp and playing and you were gone. You've been, this is your destiny. You put in the work. Don't talk about luck. Well, I can't talk about luck. My parents perfectly parented me, both in the hard work,

both my mom drilled my self-esteem, meaning like brainwashed me to think I was the best. Then I got lucky that nothing tragic happened. What if my mom died in a car accident? Then I would have never had, like, you know, it's part of the equation. But I think the number one thing that holds people back is self-esteem. They don't think they're good enough. Thus, they can't take the first step.

Yeah, and you can't solve that problem for them. No, but I can talk about it, which may lead them to go to therapy, which may lead them to do the thing. You know, one of the weird things that I'm doing that nobody talks about that I do think ends up being a big part of my legacy. One of the things I'm trying to do with DailyVee and put myself out there is I want to be the self-esteem for them. Now, I don't want to do it in a fake way. So I think most people are selling them fake shit. So they're not really building self-esteem. They're tricking them so that they can make money.

What I'm trying to do is I'm saying stuff they don't want to hear. Work every day. Don't have fun. You know, if that's, you know, if it is fun, cool, do that. But you're not going to make as much. I'm talking about real stuff. But then I'm trying to rah-rah and shit. Like, I would love, you know, DRock, I know you're here. Like you would be stunned by how many of the

kids that work here have fundamentally changed the way their confidence is because I've deployed it on them. DRock, DRock is a, I mean, I know him. He's sitting right here. I mean, I know we're not visual right now. I know we're audio. I think you're dramatically more confident than you were before you started with me. Is that because you are empowering them to step into a level of responsibility that's sort of just outside their reach and allowing them to grow into it? That, I'm doing what my mom did. I'm telling them they're great in the beginning. There's nothing wrong with that. If they suck, I'll tell them you're not as great as you thought.

But I'm starting with positive. I'm taking most of the pressure out. So one of the things I do a lot is make sure people underneath me don't feel losses. And then I do. So I don't want to give eighth place trophies. Right. There's consequences. Right.

I mean, that's a- It's a fine balance. It's a management style though, right? Like you're saying, if I'm criticizing you, it's not because I don't think you can do it. It's quite the opposite. I think you can do this. Let's see how you can step into it and give people a wide berth to take that mantle and expand their level of responsibility.

I think most parents that I watch now suck. And here's why. And this is tough for me to say. I'm not saying that with like audacity, guys. I'm watching parents and I'm watching a lot of parents. Parents, A, reward things that don't deserve to be rewarding. They think they're checking the box there. And then B, secretly are undermining their kids and telling them they can't do it.

It's so fascinating. I literally want to be the reverse of what's politically correct right now. I want my kids to know that I believe in them the most. But if they come in third place, they come in third place. Xander is now almost four years old, he still has not scored a single basket on me in basketball. The kid has got a complex right now because he thinks every shot's gonna be blocked

and they'll all be blocked until he makes it. AJ didn't score on me, he's 11 years younger than me, my partner in VaynerMedia. He didn't score on me until seventh grade, but when he beat me, when he was 19 or 18 or 16, I can't remember when he beat me. When he beat me, he knew. You know? Right, right, right. Cool.

What would you tell yourself at 20? What do you know now that you wish you had known when you were younger? I probably could have had a little more fun, just a little. I didn't need to completely stop hooking up with chicks and going on. I could have easily went on one vacation with my college buddies for a weekend. I probably went a little too extreme, though the truth is I'm not capable of regretting it because I don't know. It's all so good. So that would probably be it. Everything else has gone pretty good. I do think five to 10 days a year that I worked could have been deployed against some fun. And I've used that

learning with my kids now. I'm taking six, seven weeks vacation a year, which is unheard of for me compared to two just a couple of years ago, because I don't want to repeat that mistake. And on top of that, I guess it's been 18 months since you made this very conscious decision to prioritize your health and your diet. And I think perhaps the old Gary would have thought, well, that's a waste of time. That's time away from the office. So how has that impacted productivity? I mean, you look great. You look a lot better. I look a lot better. I'm clearly better. It hasn't in the short term. I'm sure at 50, 60, 70, 80, I'll feel the benefits of this. I don't want to lie and say I have more energy. I always had a shitload of energy. I think my

natural testosterone or whatever levels are so through the roof. It's why I never did drugs. It's why I've never, like I've, I'm crazy. Like I've never drank a Red Bull for real. Like I'm, it's funny when I show up, like I'm sure right now people are listening and they're like, boy. This guy has 12 Red Bulls in the belly right now. That's right. And so I got lucky that way.

No question, DNA wise. But what it's definitely taught me, and it's actually, this is very deep for me. This is the first second I've gotten emotional this episode. This is really cool for me to say. I'm really proud of this. And this is the number one thing my mom's proud about in my life. And I've done a lot of good. I'm really proud of this. And this is the number one

thing my mom's proud about in my life. And I've done a lot of good things. She's proud about this health thing because she knows me better than anybody. It's the first time I've done something that didn't come easy to me successfully. And it's very empowering. You know, a lot of people that listen to me, this is probably the moment a lot of you that listen to everything I do have been waiting for Because it's the first really like there's a couple nuggets in here that i've dropped for like the hardest who've listened to everything It's the first time and by the way, I will never not have a full-time trainer So a lot of people see I look better. I'm better this and that mike's leaving in july and they're like

So you got it, right? And i'm like, no, no, there's gonna be a next person And they're like what and i'm like, right? And I'm like, no, no, there's gonna be a next person. And they're like, what? And I'm like, never again, because I know I'll go back. Because I figured out the system that allows me to win this. But what it's taught me more than anything is there's other things I can do in my life that don't come natural to me. Because I'm always saying, bet on your strengths, punt your weaknesses. Health is not a weakness you can punt.

You'll just die earlier. No, that's very cool. That's super interesting because the penchant for hard work and the dedication and the focus and the energy, all of that is very natural to you. You're not, you're not, you don't have to will yourself into that state. But the idea of tackling fitness and health and diet and all these things that you've battled for so long, that's outside your comfort zone. And now I believe that all the bullshit I spew about hard work and business can be adopted by people that it doesn't come natural to them as soon as they go from tactic to religion. I went from tactic to religion, meaning for eight years since I turned 30, I've had four

different trainers. That was my tactic. I'll get a personal trainer. But then I would call out. I wouldn't do it. I gave up. I didn't eat right. And I made a religious shift. I'm going to do this. And I'm going to look at everything I do. And I'm going to come up with a new system. Everybody who's listening right now who's had a failed entrepreneurial venture or it's not going as well, your behavior is broken. You've not done the right thing. That means you either have to work smarter, sell something instead of being a consultant. You've got to figure it out, but it has to be a drastic change, not a little bit more of the same.

Yeah, I like to say you only have to change one thing, everything. That's right. You have to change your lifestyle. It's a mindset. It's not a diet. It's a lifestyle. It's a mindset. It's the way that you're living your life on a moment-to-moment basis.

I know we've got to wrap it up because you've got to jump, but I can't let you out of here without telling me a little bit about the new book, man. Ask Gary V. It's my fourth business book. In a lot of ways, it's similar to Crush It. I wanted to make something that was a little more inspirational. I push against that part of my life because it goes to a lot of the themes we talked about tonight. Inspiration leads to bullshit a lot of times. And so I try to remind people I'm a businessman. I'm an operator. I build things, not just rah-rah. But I did have more of it because I was affected. I'm getting still 20 emails, 50 emails a month just right across you. This is six years later. You've helped me. I'm better. Something good has happened. I said, you know what? I can't run away from that.

But it's the most 360 look into my brain. Like anybody, whether they're starting or they've got something successful, anybody can read it and get their $20 value out of it. And that was my biggest goal. And so it talks a lot about self-awareness, self-esteem. A lot of things we talked about, you know, we basically just talked about the book, but there's a lot more detail. It's in Q&A format, so it's quite tangible. The people that have been getting the early copies have been way more, these are some of the people actually don't love me that much during the media. Other people are like my homies and

kind of know my spiel. And I've been very, I know it's good because the response from both parties, you know, like I can feel the lack of pandering from my homies we're like crap this is pretty like it's kind of like crap this is pretty good right right i'm like what do you mean like like i'm like fuck you aren't you you know and then and then you know there's been a couple real cynical media outlets that have written really good reviews who like i know it was painful for the person to say it was good because they don't like my energy or they think I'm too egotistical, or da da da da da da da. I think people really see in me what they want to see. If you want to look at me in a microcosm on stage, you can say I'm super egotistical, narcissistic. And then if you're not cynical, you can see how self deprecating,

humble I am. And I know I pull from both ends. And it's fun to watch how I actually vet people based on how they react to me. Yeah, because they're just projecting their own baggage onto you. And that's okay. And that's going to come out, you know, in all sorts of ways. And I understand that. It doesn't make me mad. For me, what doesn't make me mad is I'm the ultimate marathon runner. Like I know what this looks like when I'm 60, 70 and 80.

I know where I'm going to be. I know what people are going to think about me because it's a level of work. Like, look, we don't get that. Like, I can't hide my actions. You're going to feel the vibe. You're going to see. You've met so many people. You see how their assistants or people around them or the general vibe or how they interact.

Like you just can't hide. Eventually, you can't hide. And you're not hiding. Never. No. Thanks, Gary. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it, man.

So tomorrow is, the book comes out March 8th. Yeah. Yes. March 8th. And tomorrow you got Super 8. Super 8. I'm going to sit in this room for eight hours. Live streaming for eight hours straight.

That's going to be fascinating to watch, man. So thanks for having me. Very cool, man. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you, man. I for having me. Very cool, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you, man. I appreciate the time. Take care, buddy. That was a lot of fun. All right, what just happened? How'd that go for you?

I had fun. I hope you guys did, too. It's really hard to describe the cacophony in Gary's office. There's so much going on. And watching Gary multitask and flow from one thing to the next over the course of a couple hours was really quite something, I have to tell you. I want to give a shout out to Gary's main man, Alex DeSimone, for helping make the whole thing happen. And I even had the opportunity to go back to VaynerMedia the next day following the podcast and sit in with Gary on Super 8,

which was really, really fun. And you can catch that on his YouTube channel as well as a brief appearance by me in his DailyVee number 17. I think I come in about 10 minutes in or something like that. Links to both of those in the show notes for this episode. And speaking of show notes, please check out the episode page at richroll.com.

Tons of links and resources mentioned during the course of this conversation to take your edification beyond the earbuds. For all your plant-powered and RRP swag and merch needs, visit richroll.com. All kinds of cool stuff there. Nutrition products, plant-powered t-shirts. We've got sticker packs. We even have fine art prints, so you can check that out. Keep sending in your questions for future Q&A podcasts to info at richroll.com. Shout out to Sean Patterson for all his help on the graphics for this episode, Chris Swan for production assistance, and the interstitial music on this episode was done by Talks, T-A-W-X.

She's a podcast fan and graciously allowed me to use her music, which is really cool. And you can find her at soundcloud.com forward slash Talks, T-A-W-X. And stick around a few minutes longer because I'm going to end the show today with my boys band, Anna Lemma's rendition

of David Bowie's Life on Mars. I used this tune interstitially last week. People dug it. I got a bunch of messages about it. So I thought I'd share the entire song at the very end here today. You can find Anilema on SoundCloud and Facebook. Links on the episode page to those pages.

In any event, thanks for all the support, you guys. Remember, small actions taken daily move mountains. So if there's something you wish to more fully express, take a step, any step, today. Because today is all we have. Love you guys. See you soon. Peace. Plants. It's a god awful small affair To the girl with the mousy hair But her mommy is yelling no And her daddy has told her to go But her friend is nowhere to be seen

So she walks to a sunken dream To the seat with the clearest view And she's hooked to the silver screen But the film is a saddening bore Cause she's lived it ten times or more She could spit in the eyes of fools As I ask her to focus on Sailors fighting in the dance hall

Oh man, look at those cavemen go It's the freakiest show Take a look at the lawman beating up the wrong guy Oh man

I wonder if he'll ever know He's in the Oh, man, I wonder if you'll ever know It's in the best-selling show Is there life on Mars? Oh, oh, oh It's on America's torture brow That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow All the workers have struck for fame Cause London's on sale again See the mice in their million hearts

From Ibiza to the Norfolk Broads To the tanniers out of bounds To my mother, my dog and clowns But the film is a saddening bore Cause I've wrote it ten times or more It's about to be read again As I ask you to focus on Sailors fighting in the dance hall.

Oh, man, look at those cavemen go. It's the freakiest show. Take a look at the lawmen beating up the wrong guy. Oh, man, I wonder if you'll ever know. He's in the best-selling show. It's the life on Mars. I'm going to go. Thank you.