The Rich Roll Podcast - Guru Singh Is The Master Of Change: Spiritual Tools For Positive Self-Growth

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Buckle up because today, we are jetting across the universe, exploring metaphysical truths big and small, and getting granular on the spiritual laws of growth and transformation. At the helm of our starship is the legendary Guru Singh—a master of the Kundalini arts who presides over Kundalini University. He is a celebrated master spiritual teacher, third-generation Sikh yogi, author, accomplished musician, father, grandfather, and gift to humanity at large who has been teaching and studying Kundalini yoga for the past 40-plus years. Today’s exchange centers on the fundamental concepts of metamorphosis: the difference between striving and allowing, pushing and receiving, and the delicate balance between doing and being. We also explore the essential elements of lasting change and how to cultivate the inner awareness and strength needed to create a positive impact in our lives and the world around us. My hope is that this conversation will serve as a compass you can use to navigate the realms of personal growth and lead you toward a life of greater fulfillment and purpose. Show notes + MORE Watch on Youtube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: Athletic Greens: http://drinkAG1.com/richroll ROKA:  http://www.roka.com/ Indeed: Indeed.com/RICHROLL SriMu: http://srimu.com/rrp Peace + Plants, Rich

The Rich Roll Podcast. So often in life, when we think about change, we're constantly fixated on the outcome. Be incremental and make those incremental goals important enough to give yourself some sense of satisfaction. Greetings, Earthlings. Welcome to the podcast. So it's been a minute, but today I am delighted to welcome the return of my friend Guru Singh. Longtime listeners, viewers, remember well this mystic master spiritual teacher. I'm a constant student as well as a constant teacher. A dear friend who has dropped many a wisdom pearl with all of you guys over the years. He's back today to muse on the subject of growth and transformation

and the delicate balance between doing and being. And it's all coming up quick, but first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices.

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I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Okay, Guru Singh, we also explore the essential elements of lasting change, how to cultivate the inner awareness and strength needed to create a positive impact in our lives and the world around us, as well as many other topics. So let's spin the mandala and enjoy. Well, it's so good to see you. I can't even remember the last time you were here,

but it was a while ago. So we're here to reprise, pick up on where we last left off and see where it goes. Yeah, we always punch pause. We never punch end. Yeah, there's no end. There's just pause. There's something profound in that statement, I think, if you extrapolate on that idea. Are there any stops or only pauses? There are stops that last longer than others, but then they have a LinkedIn startup. So it's a pause with a long stop. What we end up with oftentimes in our world is sometimes those pauses need to be good stops in order for us to make change or rearrange. Right.

Extended pauses. Yeah. That we tell our brain, I've stopped. I was just speaking to someone, he just turned 62, super successful. He says, I'm unemployed. He had his own companies. He sold them all. He said, I'm unemployed. He had his own companies. He sold them all.

He said, I'm taking a year off. I'd call that a stop that's a pause. Yeah, guys like that always find their way back. But the pause is the reboot to perhaps do the deep thinking about what the best next thing is. Because everyone in your audience has a driving force. And sometimes a good pause, a good stop, gets you back in touch with that driving force because the driving force, when it's activated,

has you into act-react mode. But when you actually get to settle back down into the actual driving force, that's when you start to feel like, oh, this is what I was, this is why I started what I'm doing, or this is why I'm doing what I'm doing. Yeah. It's hard to tap into that when you're just going, going, going, and on the treadmill of whatever it is that you do. Like in order to do that kind of deep reflection, you do need to take these refractory periods. I mean, I think, you know, like a couple of years ago,

I started taking a month off every year. And those moments of repose have been profound and not just helping me, you know, make sense of what it is that I wanna do and prioritize projects, et cetera. But kind of below that surface to really spend some time to think about like how I wanna expend my energies, what my value set is,

which values require which energies, when, et cetera. And learning through that process to say no, when to say no and when to say yes, which downstream that has like real world, major consequences on the things that I do and how I kind of tread the world. And that's a privileged thing to be able to do. I recognize that, but it has been incredibly beneficial. And that's what we need to work on as communities and as cultures and as civilizations and as nations, et cetera, is that we have to be able to work on achieving that collectively,

work on achieving that collectively, creating opportunities for more than just the select few to have that ability. I mean, look at Europe. Europe pretty much guarantees a month off every year in their work cycle. And so those are the kinds of opportunities that give people the ability to deep think, to do the deep dive, and to have that reflective or refractive period that you talked about and be able to get back in touch with themselves. And with that, there's a greater amount of joy. There's a greater amount of happiness. There's a greater amount of friendliness.

And when we have that, then we're not running like we're running right now in the world, whereby we've got wars and disputes and skirmishes. And I mean, territorial disputes are crazy to be having in the 21st century. There doesn't seem to be an end in sight to that kind of thing. I mean, and when I reflect on Western society, certainly it doesn't reflect that value set of the European nations who value that kind of time off sort of situation. We're in a culture in which a minute off

and a second of lack of productivity is translated into a sense of unworthiness in the world, which is a very pernicious kind of sensibility that pervades our culture. And although it is perhaps beyond reach for most people to be able to take a month off, I do think that's sort of the macro version of this,

but there are micro versions of it. I mean, I know that we've talked in the past about the difference between reacting and responding, right? Even to take a minute to be able to step back from a particular situation or a decision that has to be made to at least reflect momentarily upon it so that you can respond from a deeper value set or a higher level of consciousness

than to just spontaneously react and recur a pattern that you've been doing your whole life that always ends up with you in a certain place that you're trying to avoid? I have two things that come up when you're saying that. One is that in order for us to shift the globe, Buffy St. Marie, back in the 1960s, wrote a song called The Universal Soldier.

And she was basically saying it's up to the conscripts to end wars and skirmishes if no one was willing to fight. Then those that are producing the ideas of war, skirmish, territorial disputes, et cetera, would have nobody to operate their operation. And the second thing is the idea of no one has the opportunity or not as many people have the opportunity to take a month off. How about what you and I were discussing earlier, and that is to take 15 to 20 minutes off each day and have a safe space that you go into, a safe space both physically in the external

and psycho-emotionally in the internal, and go into that safe space and get acquainted again, right? Hi, how am I doing? How am I? Who am I? Why am I? And when should I be? And what should I be when? And start to answer those really personal questions. Having a daily practice is the key to micro changing. So if somebody's new to that idea and they're hearing you and they think, well, I can maybe carve out 15 minutes, but I don't know how to deploy that effectively. Like I can ask myself who I am. I don't know that I deploy that effectively. Like I can ask myself who I am.

I don't know that I'm gonna come to an answer to that question in 15 minutes, but what is the practicality of that type of practice for somebody who's less than immersed in the kind of ideas that you speak about? The people that you're talking about are the vast majority. That's the norm.

The norm is not knowing what to do when you're given the opportunity of 15 or 20 minutes, right? Because we've gone along for so many centuries in this get it up, catch it up, catch it up, get it up, catch it up, get it up. Ever since we discovered the world was round right we've been building more merchandise than we can consume and trying to market it so that we have a place for it to go and that's just really crazy making and so for

centuries there's been no real moment to sit down in the field of your crop you know and wait for the plants to grow you don't have anything to do at that moment so you do what you do and that was the old agrarian society now what we have is we have the opportunity and this is what i've been working with we have the opportunity to guide people and to provide for people the ideas and the mechanisms that they can insert into their world on a daily basis. It's almost like the old paint by numbers to get an acquaintance with colors and color sharing so that then you can go on to paint by your own numbers

and start to express yourself on the canvas of life. So you're right. We could take that 15 or 20 minutes, but what do I do with it? And so that's why people like myself, like you are providing. I mean, take for example, what should I do with it? Let me listen to a ritual podcast because I will get some insight, some inspiration from the people that he has put together that will be something applicable to my own world. Or let me do a guided meditation.

Let me do some breath work. Let me take a walk. Let me do these things that I can use to get back in touch with me. So that's what I'm doing and that's what you're doing. I think in the sort of self-improvement, internet ecosystem of podcasts and blogs and social media accounts.

There's a lot of content out there around certain daily practices, whether they're morning routines or things that we should do every day. And all of them in their own right are cool, beneficial things like get in a cold plunge, take a cold shower, go on a daily walk, morning pages, daily journaling, meditation practice, mindfulness practice, here's some breath work exercises. But I also think that not that there's a downside to any of these or a dark side,

but I think when you're impulsed with so many options, it becomes paralyzing. Like, well, I could do all of these things, but I don't have three hours for my morning. You know, I can't do my cold plunge and do my breath work and do my meditation and do my journaling and then, you know, have my artist date with myself and all, you know, so then people get stuck

and they don't do anything, right? Like it's about like finding one thing that will work for you and then developing a way to make that sustainable in your life because it's the consistency or the repetition of the individual thing. It almost doesn't matter which of these modalities you opt for as long as you, you as you kind of create a routine around them

that works within the construct of your life so that you are actually doing it. Well, let's take an idea. Everybody eats some sort of a breakfast. Breakfast means breaking the fast, breaking the fast of night. So some people say, well, I never eat breakfast. Well, they eat a first meal. And whether they eat it at 12 noon or two in the afternoon, that first meal is them breaking their fast. So it's a breakfast. What if we said, if you want to get in touch with you,

What if we said, if you want to get in touch with you, get in touch with something that everybody does. Everybody chews their food. And what if you just became mindful when you sat down, that you, okay, I'm chewing this food, and I'm swallowing this food so that I can nourish myself. And that's all. It took me 30 seconds to a minute for that first bite. And that's the beginning point. I'm nourishing myself. And in that moment, you've nourished yourself physically, and you've also nourished yourself psychoemotionally because you've put feeling into it,

you've put thought into it, and your physical body is going to respond to it. And so my statement is that to people that don't know, they're overwhelmed, they don't know what, you know, which way to go, how to start, what to do when they start, is let's just start at something that's super common. That's multitasking your situation, because you're going to eat anyway, right? So how do you turn what you were going to do anyway, this ordinary act into a mindfulness practice? And you don't have to do it for the whole meal, because you might be with other people, and you're going to have to talk during the meal. So, you know, or say something or be somewhere.

But if you just decided that you were going to take that first bite and just be extremely mindful of that first bite, that's actually what was called grace. You know, okay, let's all say grace. You know, people say a prayer before their meal. What's better than a prayer of mindfulness in the beginning of a meal? I remember that Bertrand Russell had something to say about the importance of chewing your food. And so I was trying to look that up.

I can't find it right now. Chew each mouthful 50 times. Is that what he said? Yeah, I just remembered something in the back of my mind from a long time ago. And that's a lot. Yeah. I tried that twice. It's a lot more challenging. I mean, it took forever to finish the meal. So even if you did that, you would entertain your dining guests. Exactly. We'll take it down, you know, from 50, take it down to 10 or 15. And it's surprising what you get into. You feel your teeth, you feel your tongue, you all of a sudden feel this thing. It's not just this, you know, stuffing it in and pushing it down. It's an amazing component of life, the act of taking in food and nourishment.

Yeah. Which, by the way, connects us to the gut brain. You know, the medical science is discovering the three brains, and there's a lot of neurology in the heart and in the gut. And the gut brain is all about connection and nourishment. Not just food, but also socially. That you and I are connecting and nourishing each other. And the people that you connect with through the gut brain

are the ones that are really impactful in your life. The ones that you really look forward to in life because they are so nourishing. Just like the food you take into the gut. Affecting each other's microbes. Perfect. Well, the kind of overarching umbrella for today's conversation, at least in my mind, kind of what I wanted to explore with you is perhaps a little bit more grounded in practicality than some of our past more esoteric

and ephemeral conversations. In my mind, like I've been spending a lot of time thinking about change, positive change. I think if there's one kind of overarching theme to this podcast, it is transformation, like the power that we all have to transform our lives, to make positive changes, lasting positive changes in our lives. And I've hosted many examples of these types of people, and I've experienced my own version of this. And I believe deeply and profoundly that we all have that latent capacity within us.

And yet for the most part, you see so many people struggling not to become enlightened or to become a meditation master, but simply to improve their lives marginally, right? Like we're now in, it's the beginning of March, we're past the sort of new year's resolution phase of people testing out their resolutions, trying, failing, stumbling, et cetera.

So that idea of like habit change and like how do you level up or how do you try to incorporate some practices into your life that are gonna allow you to step into a more self-actualized or an individual who is living their life with more fidelity to their value set. Like how do you become more idealized?

Not in the sense of you becoming some kind of supernatural human being, but just like living better than you have been. And I think that people trip up, they get discouraged, that leads to paralysis or a sense of self-disappointment or a sense of lack of agency to make those kind of changes in their lives. And so I really wanted to get your thoughts

on how you think about this kind of thing. I'm sure you come up against this with the people that you work with and have probably spent a lot of time thinking about this yourself? In the modern times, we have what is called GPS. I used it to find the studio here today. GPS requires two things. Where are you and where do you want to be? And then it takes you on the road between the two, which is, it says, the best way, right?

Not only is it talking about the fastest way, but it's talking about the most ecological way now and all of these things. What is the best way? So often in life, when we think about change, we're constantly fixated on the outcome. We're constantly fixated on the destination. If you were to drive under that condition, you'd probably get in an accident

because you're not paying attention to what they call the way of the way, which means that you have to be present in each moment along the way, trusting that the destination is in head of you. And so that's what we have to do each day, but set up like once a month or once a quarter, the loftyy goal and then set up the routine that keeps you present then create the map between the two locations and then give yourself enough time to achieve an outcome for example there was someone in my life 15 years ago that was extremely difficult, but very, very close, and they weren't going to go out of my life, and it wasn't my wife. So I said, if she listened to the podcast, it's not her, and she's heard me tell this story anyway. And I gave myself a 30 year plan that I was going to make this relationship an absolute

locked embrace relationship in 30 years. I gave it enough time so that I wasn't going to require to be able to see the change every single day or every single week, month or year. every single day or every single week, month, or year. We're 15 months into it. I think I am further along than I imagined in my 30-year projection. But what gave me that opportunity was I said, I am going to change this, whether it's my change or their change, to be an embracing relationship in a period of time that gave it time to make the shift. And so the first thing I would advise people to do is give yourself enough time so that you're not working under the hammer of urgency. You use the word agency. The thing that will displace agency is urgency because with urgency, you can't get back to self. And if you don't get back to that self-authorizing,

I have the right to do this, then agency is out. Well, a couple of reflections on that. I mean, in terms of timelines, I've often said that we should be extending the timelines on the changes that we're trying to manifest in our lives. I've said that I think we over-index on what we can do or achieve in short periods of time or a year, but really under index or don't give enough weight or thought or intention to longer time periods? What are you going to be doing in a decade? Because we're not wired really to be able to cast our gaze that far forward. It becomes very difficult because

what you have to do to kind of extend your point is master small little tasks over time that are nudging you in a new direction ever so slightly, but in a way, as I said earlier, that they are not disrupting your life entirely, because if they're too disruptive, they don't become sustainable and you're set up to ultimately abandon them, right? So it's not about, you have to set that goal,

you have to care about that destination, but you also have to forget about that destination and focus on like what your values are and just changing your habits to be more in alignment with that value set so that it becomes an aspect simply of how you live. And that detaches you from that destination because you're in that process,

you are becoming that person that you wanna be and the destination becomes less important. I like that. And it reminded me of something that I've used over time, Sunday worship, as opposed to Sunday worship, Sunday worship. And I've done it for decades. On Sunday, usually in the afternoon,

I'll write down the words that I want to relate to that indicate something that I want to be able to achieve in the larger picture in this week. And then when the next Sunday comes along, I look at those words and I see, okay, how many of those did I work with successfully? And then I make a new list, which will include some of the old list going forward. This is what you use the word incremental. If we can set up, and a lot of people say, well, I don't know what my goal is. I don't know what my purpose is. I don't know any of this stuff. Okay, let's make that our goal. Let's make the goal of, I'm going to move through time covering my base, and I'm going to eventually,

I'm going to move through time covering my base. And I'm going to eventually, within the next one year, two years, three years, whatever the timeline you want to make, I'm going to know what is my purpose. And so there you go. You have a goal. Your goal is to find your purpose. If you already know what your purpose is, then your goal is to make some real movement towards your purpose. But let's say you don't know what your purpose is and you're going to make some movement toward towards your purpose. But let's say you don't know what your purpose is,

and you're going to make some movement toward finding that purpose. The incremental steps are really important. And that means that if you can set up something that says, I want to make it from here to here, and just in this week, come back the next Sunday, how far did you get? Maybe as you said, you overestimated the short term and underestimated the long term. You will start to adjust. Here is the presence and the preference and in between is the difference. Most people are just gaga over their preference, not living in their presence, and consequently they're falling apart in the difference.

But what you described was how do you be in your presence, know what your preference is, and just make your way through the difference remaining in your presence. And how do you remain in your presence? We go back to what we started with. Be conscious when you're eating. I am eating.

Doesn't have to be any more than that. I am nourishing my body. Doesn't have to be anything more than that. Be conscious when you're talking to someone. I am talking to Martha. Doesn't have to be anything more than that. Martha're talking to someone. I am talking to Martha. It doesn't have to be anything more than that. Martha is talking to me. Be conscious when you're having some kind of a get-together, a gathering.

I am in this gathering. Isn't this gathering interesting? It doesn't have to be anything more than that. These are really practical ways of being in what we call, you and I, in this conversation, presence. And then give yourself the opportunity when you're alone or in a small, like intimate setting with your family or what have you, where you're starting to think about, okay, what's my plan? What's my goal? What is my plan? What's my goal? What is our plan?

What is our goal? And then you can come back to that presence and you make your way through that difference. Because when people live in the difference, that's when they become really scattered, really unhappy, really unfulfilled, not nourished.

And they're the easiest people to enslave by the powers of marketing. And I'm not trying to create a boogeyman here or a conspiracy. I'm just talking about the way shit is in this world. In other words, meaning that if you're living in, to use your terminology, the difference, you're somebody who is sort of disconnected from that higher version of yourself. You don't really have a sense of where you want to go or who you want to be. You're sort of in this perpetual state of discontentment and detachment. I know what that feels like. And as a result, you become vulnerable to, well, if you see a billboard and you're like, well, if I get that thing, then I'll feel better. If I buy

that, or if I can find this other person to like me or whatever it is, you're trying to fill that hole or answer that existential question through means that ultimately prove to be futile and aren't moving you in the right direction, but you're grasping at straws because you don't know any other way. You saw me kind of anxious during the last 45 seconds because I thought about an experience that you had that has really stuck with me. You went to Sweden and you ran across islands and then swam a channel between islands. You did this thing, running and swimming. Right.

That was living in the difference. When you're in the difference, it's like you're constantly living in that high tension survival orientation. Even though you know you're not going to die in your commotion, you don't feel like you're living. And we need to come out of that. So you get out of the water and you sit on the beach for a while

and you let your shoes dry out and you start to walk on the path, this is living in the presence rather than difference. I'll tell you, extreme sports, extreme athletes, what gives them the greatest reward in my estimation from where my view is, is how do you navigate the difference? How do you navigate the overwhelming experience in the difference? And so that should sort of cement the idea of if you're not living in your presence and you're always gaga over your preference, you're not in your preference because it's out there in front of you. So you're lost in this difference

in the crazy raging waters of your difference. Start to bring yourself back home. Give yourself a break. Yeah, I would push back a little bit on the Sweden example or the endurance sport example in that, for example, like when I was doing that Sweden race, I knew I wasn't going to die. There was an end point. There was a finish line. And as hard as it was, I was pretty confident that I was going to get there. And the way that you get there is being present in the circumstances in which you find

yourself and knowing what the right next thing to do is, but there is a directionality to it. There's a linear kind of progression there where you do have comfort in knowing that, you know, when the day ends, my head is going to be on a pillow somewhere and this will be complete, right? my head is gonna be on a pillow somewhere and this will be complete, right? And in the broader endurance sport context, there is a sort of structure that gets overlaid. Like you sign up for a race and then you do a training program and you prepare

and then you show up for the race and you compete in the race. There's like, it sits within a certain kind of box. And I think that that is distinct from the experience of somebody who is living their life, feeling confused, disaffected, not fulfilled, unclear on, you know, whether it's their purpose or something that is getting them excited about where they're headed or what they're doing when they wake up in the morning. And I think that that is to sort of coin Thoreau,

like this mass of men who are leading lives of quiet desperation, like they don't have their North Star and they don't know how to change that situation. Like that is an existential kind of crisis that I think befalls many a person. And there are many tools and things to reflect upon that we were talking about earlier to kind of get clarity on how to change

those circumstances. But I think that that makes it qualitatively different than the kind of endurance sport example. Well, I'll do Aikido with your pushback and I'll say it's not pushback, it's energy because it's not necessarily pushback. It's additional information because what you brought up is extremely vital. The difference between my metaphor and your pushback was that in life, there's no finish line. There's no resolve that at the end of the day, I'm going to have that pillow. Because in the race of life, what's the end of the race? So if you're living in the difference day in and day out, where's the end of the race? That's what, to use your previous word,

the incremental views are vital. So practicality. Give yourself incremental measurements. Give yourself some form, some tool that you can use that if I get to the edge of this island by tonight, you know, if we're going to continue the metaphor of the Swedish race, if I get to this point by tonight, I am going to give myself rest because that's the incremental achievement that I need to achieve. My big goal, I'm not going to think about it. My incremental

goal, I'm going to focus on. And so I think that one of the things that should come from this communication today for people listening or watching is be incremental and make those incremental goals important enough to give yourself some sense of satisfaction. In my experience, those incremental things that you make a decision to incorporate into your life also don't have to be tethered to some kind of greater goal. Like there is something to be said for doing them for no other purpose than because they are esteemable acts on behalf of the self. So if you find yourself confused or not knowing where to turn to develop even a limited mindfulness or meditation practice

or any other kind of creative nourishing activity, ultimately sets in motion, you know, an energy field that if committed to will lead to inevitably lead to opportunities or other doors opening or insights that will allow you to make pivots and other decisions that you might not ordinarily. And the way it's rigged is you're not allowed to see where that's gonna go.

Like, and I think part of the paralysis is that we wanna know what the map looks like. Like you used the GPS example. Like we wanna be able to put in the destination and see the route and have it all planned out. Here's the efficient way, here's the fastest way, et cetera. Okay, now I know what I'm doing and I can execute. But in life, you only get to see

like one step in front of you. And you have to have a certain level of self-belief and faith to take that first step without knowing where the second step is going to fall. And it is only through practice and repetition that you can develop that faith that it will guide you or lead you. And that requires enough self inquiry and internal work

so that your gut brain and your instincts can guide you credibly. Because if you are so disassociated or disconnected from yourself, and you don't know how to like, you know, kind of connect with yourself in an integrated way, those impulses or those instincts might lead you to some bad decisions. You spoke about multitasking. You have to eat anyway. If you're becoming mindful of the

chewing and the swallowing and all of that, when you're eating, what about the fact that you have to perhaps drive someplace anyway? Put Audible on your phone. And in order to see a little further down the road than you might see, listen to people who have written books, who have done things successfully. Start listening to inspirational books in the time that you have to do something else so that you can start to get ideas and pointers from people who have already gone through what you are going through and you will find, and I'm not talking obviously to you, people find I'm not alone in this. And that's a very important place to experience yourself. I'm not the only one that's feeling the way I'm feeling. And the moment you start to feel commonality and companionship in the way that

you feel that there are other people that are in the collective that are feeling this way too, you start to feel a sense of assuredness because other people who have felt the very same way have made it through. And so I know that even though I can only see, as you said, even though I can only see this far forward, I know that there are people that felt the same way that I'm feeling right now that saw even further forward and that succeeded even further forward. And so one of the things that's missing in life right now is community. And putting us all online and COVID and all that took place hasn't done anything to increase the,

the sensation of community. So community to use your word is one of the valuables. You use the word of values. And I say, well, that's very closely associated with the idea of what's most valuable to me. And one of the things that's most valuable to me is to know that other people have gone through what I'm going through and they've made it through. And here are a few pointers of how they made it through while feeling exactly how I'm feeling at this moment. Yeah, there's an interesting sort of paradox or dichotomy of the digital world in which we find ourselves in that the more we've become attached to our screens and kind of had the experiences that we all had

throughout the pandemic, we have found ourselves detached from community, detached from neighbors, detached from our analog relationships. And yet at the same time, it's never been easier to find your community online. I mean, you went from having this entire studio where you taught in analog form to many people,

and I have attended that studio many times, to going completely digital and online and cultivating community that way. So despite the fact that we are in this weird place where we're not interacting with people in human form as much as we should be, and as much as we historically have, the access that we have to not only information, but to those inspirational voices or to the people with whom we can look to as avatar mentors has never been greater. It's of course incumbent upon the person to seek those people out and to make that decision to put on Audible or a podcast when they're in the car, as opposed to the radio, et cetera. So there's a responsibility, I think, that comes with that.

But if you can muster the courage or make the commitment to yourself to do that, the level of nourishment that you can find and experience is boundless. And that's like the amazing thing about the internet. Like none of these things are bad or good or black or white. It's all in our relationship to them and how we decide to use them. Are we using them to suck us dry and to exploit us?

Or are we using them as tools for self-betterment or for creativity or for connection and community? You use the word responsibility. What in that word, the ability to respond, right? What in that word for most people is because responsibility always felt like burden. My responsibilities, right? How much am I due to support, right? How can a person look at responsibility in a higher sense rather than feeling like it's a burden? Well, to reframe it as opportunity. Perfect.

Like this thing is available to you. Yeah. You just have to reach out and grab it, right? Yeah. Audible costs a little bit of money, but podcasts are pretty free and there's an infinite number of hours of people talking about their life experiences. And I can guarantee that if you go down, you know, into that exploration, you're going to find somebody, some teacher, some personal life experience that you will resonate with, that you'll find helpful as a lighthouse

or a guidepost along the way. But yeah, I mean, it's really about the connotation of responsibility. Like responsibility doesn't have to be seen as burdensome. I think the blocks or the barriers here are complicated in that of course everybody wants to, you know, be marginally better, or, you know, if I could just like master this one habit,

where would it lead me, et cetera. And the impediments to that, that most people face are not rudimentary. They're complex in that it has to do with like the psychological blueprint of this individual and their past experiences and the nuances of past relationships that they've had or possibly traumas that they've experienced

that create a framework in which this thing that might be really easy for somebody else to do becomes almost impossible for the other person to do. Tools, you and I said before we were talking on camera that we wanted to give practical tools. And I spoke about the gut brain. And what you're talking about is actually in the heart brain. And so a really practical tool, intentional breathing. If you can just sit for one minute, put your hands

on the navel point and inhale, pushing the belly out, just pushing it out like you're being funny. Exhale, drawing the belly back in and just do this breathing through the nose, inhale, through the nose or mouth, exhale and do it for one minute. what's going to happen is that over time, if you just do this for a minute a day, over time, you're going to start to get in touch with all of these incredible centers. You've got the navel points, you've got the solar plexus, and you've got the heart.

And the heart is divided into three layers medically. Three layers, the bottom layer, the middle layer, and the top layer, and so are the lungs. And these layers have different functions. And the bottom layer, psychologists have understood, psychotherapists have understood,

that the bottom layer of the heart is the layer of the heart which the layer of the heart, which sort of produces the sensation of hope. There's a whole thing called heart hope, right? The middle layer of the heart is what's attached to will or willingness and action. That's what they say, you know, when a person achieves something, well, they put their heart into it. When you have action, there's going to, in the law of motion, there's going to be reaction. And then you need the top layer of the heart, which is courage. The French word for heart is core, right? So courage, willingness, and hope created actively by one minute of intentional

breathing. Engage that and all of a sudden you're going to start working with, hmm, maybe I could do that. That's that hope, right? Changing, as you said, the connotation of the word responsibility. I'm going to turn responsibility into the ability to respond, which gives me hope. Well, now I've got hope and the ability to respond. I'm willing to move forward. Oh, as I've moved forward, people have said, you know, you can't do that. Now I've got to engage courage, right? So if I can start breaking it down into its incremental pieces, I can start making those tiny steps

towards the big change, little tiny pieces at a time. You mentioned purpose earlier, and you were talking about somebody who perhaps doesn't know what their purpose is and how to begin the process of kind of going on the expedition to discover what that might be.

And I thought, I was wondering whether you are of the opinion that everybody has a singular purpose. Do you think that we come into the world and there is this purpose that we're on this quest to find and once we find it, it's our kind of role to express that purpose or further that purpose

or are there multiple purposes and it's about living your life and finding the thing that you connect with and trying to kind of further that, you know, kind of further that? Like, how do you think about that? Are we on a mystical path to like, is there a singular thing? No. For each person? No. I look at it this way. It's a journey, you know? There will be a purpose at some point in your journey to find the next gas station, right? But that's not your-

The layers of purpose. Exactly. And that's not the overall purpose. Your overall purpose is you're driving from here to there. And before you get to, or find the next charging station, if you're going electric, right? It's going to become a big purpose when everybody does go electric is where is the next charging station? So the idea of an overall, what is my purpose? It's a good desire because all desires drive us forward. But again, I relate back to the incrementals. What is my purpose? My purpose today was to come here to be with you. But one of the purposes was I'm going to eat breakfast. Before that, I was going to do meditation and yoga.

So looking at the overall purpose is a bit grandiose. And I think it's a bit of a block creator. Being more flexible with the idea of purpose and let it be kind of like a tennis match is my overall purpose is I want to win this match. But if I'm thinking about that while I'm trying to deal with the oncoming ball, I'm going to completely blow it. So my purpose can be many, as you said, multi-layered. But what is my purpose right here, right now? My purpose in interview, things such as this, is not about what am I going to say.

I like to get into really deeply listening and then trust that what I'm going to say is going to be in some kind of a flow with what I'm listening to. And I use that as a metaphor in life. When I am going to, you talked about what are those, what are those tiny changes that we can do? Well, what is the moment telling me? How can I move in this moment? What is it they say? You can't turn the direction of a car

when it's standing still? How can I just begin to move regardless of the direction so that I can be really in touch with what's going on and then I can begin to turn my direction. And then as I'm turning my direction, if I'm still holding on to my, you know, that preference,

my goal, my plan, my purpose thing kind of thing, my purpose to find my purpose, I'm gonna be led towards that. So if I was to say to you, what is your purpose? You don't have a singular answer. My purpose on earth is to do X. My purpose on earth is to do X. Is to do X. That's it? That's it. It is funny. And to do it to the best of my ability.

Yes. Answered in perfectly cryptic language. So yeah, there is something really kind of interesting, like to pull on these threads a little bit. When you think about purpose in the macro sense to say, this is my purpose, there is something kind of egocentric and narcissistic about that. Like I have divined my purpose and I am here to do this one thing and this is what I'm doing. And yet I suppose the counter argument to that is people who do feel they have a strong sense of what that is, it becomes a guiding principle

in how they make decisions. Absolutely. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. Like I think that's fantastic. And that's what I call the do X. Right, so, but I don't think it's necessary that everybody has that. I find that the people that do have a strong conviction

around that tend to be people who are like very goal oriented kind of spreadsheet type of people who like to layer a structure upon their life. And that makes them feel productive and guided and all of that. And I say that without judgment, I'm not one of those people, but like I know plenty of people like that

and that works for them. And that works for them. But I think the bigger thread to pull here is this tension, again, a paradox, like a tension between a kind of Eastern approach to an Eastern application to how we live our lives on a daily basis and the kind of Western approach. So to say I have a purpose or these are the principles and this is what's guiding my decisions. And this is how I wake up in the morning and decide upon what I I'm gonna say yes to and what I'm gonna say no to,

there's a sort of Western sensibility to that. It's very kind of tangible, goal oriented, three-dimensional, et cetera, versus the more Eastern approach, which recognizes purpose as something important as a guiding principle, but also prioritizes the importance of being present. Like you're in the micro sense of what is my purpose?

Like I'm here to like, listen, I'm here to be present. It is only in presence that I can find truth or impart the best of what I have to offer. Like, how do we balance these two energies of being goal-driven and practical and write down what you wanna do and how are you structuring your time and et cetera, versus the Bertrand Russell,

like chew your each bite of food 50 times and can you just enter a social situation and pay attention? These are forces that are in opposition and yet also I think success or fulfillment or the things that we're seeking come through finding a way to alchemize these two energies, balance them and kind of walk a razor's edge in how you're in relationship with these two things.

You said, how can we alchemize these forces? how can we alchemize these forces? My overriding purpose is to wake up, is to wake up. So it's not X. It is X. I'll get back to that. I love it. Just as a humorous aside, Just as a humorous aside, my Chinese zodiac is the rooster, right? The rooster is what wakes the farmer up in the morning, right? Then how come your house and your studio and everything is adorned with frogs instead of roosters? Because frogs represent, because my eyes, my big eyes, I was called, hey, froggy as I was a young kid. And so froggy turned into frogs and I've got hundreds of frogs everywhere. So as a rooster, my whole thing is to wake myself up because I know that if I wake myself up, I'm going to have the best opportunity of whatever

I'm trying to do in every moment. Then by example, my purpose is to wake others up, not wake them up so they can do this or wake them up so they can do that. Wake them up so they can do whatever they want to do, but the more awake they are, the better they'll do it. And so my overriding purpose is to wake up. My incremental purpose is to do X in an awakened state. And when I say an awakened state, an aware state, a conscious state, a parasympathetic, if you want to use the nervous system state, which is the system that takes the step back and looks at the whole picture before they make the move in the smaller picture. And so I look at it, okay, I'm awake. If I'm playing music, I'm awake in the music.

And if I'm awake in the music, then I'm feeling the moment and I can respond to that sensation. If I'm an artist, same thing. If I'm a writer, same thing. If I'm working with children, same thing. If I'm awake in the moment, I'm going to be listening to what is it exactly that I'm needing to fulfill this sensation of angst, confusion, or whatever the feeling might be that doesn't feel good, there's a message in it.

If I'm awake, I can hear that message. Now I'm down into the quantum structure of my messaging and I'm able to respond. I'm responsible. And that makes me able to then turn in a direction that I need to turn so that the next moment is a little better than the last, the next day, a little better than the previous,

and I'm starting to grow and to shift and to change incrementally. So perhaps a way to drill down on the essence of what you just had to say is in the tension between doing and being, you can't properly do unless you're being. Yeah. Wow, that's a quotable.

Yeah, and in order to know what to do, you have to be. But in order to be, you have to do something. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's the whole circle, isn't it? That's the yin and the yang. That's the conversation that if we just came in here and this is what I'm going to do to use your metaphor from the previous point, I'm just going to do, this is the conversation. This is the way we're going to have it. We're going to run through these points and this is the outcome. That's the doing. But the being is what the heck is Grissing going to say in the middle of the conversation, what if he throws me a curve ball? It's a dance.

It is. Right? And it's one that you, I think, can spend your life trying to master. But I think it is, you know, finding that balance between those two things. And I think once it tips too much in one or the other directions,

then it can lead you astray. Yeah. And, and look really positively at the concept of a pendulum, you know, life is that pendulum, you know, it's going to swing every once in a while. It's going to be out there in the, in the weeds. It's's gonna be coming back. We're talking about the context of change within oneself. Like how do we accomplish that? How do we be, what do we do? How do we instill greater self-efficacy, agency, self-esteem?

How do we get on a more appropriate trajectory to guide us towards the more fulfilling purpose-driven life? That's one thing. On the other hand, we have this idea of instilling or activating change in another. And, you know, this is the source of a tremendous amount of human suffering, right? Like the minute we start to get involved or attached to trying to get somebody else to change or to become more like ourselves

or to see the world our way is the minute that we open ourselves up to unlimited amounts of, of, of like pain and toil. And you as a teacher, you are a change agent. You are trying to activate positive change in other people. How do you think about that relationship? And what do you say to the person who comes to you who says, you know, my partner or my child or my parent or my best friend is, you know, doing this thing and I'm trying to help them and they're just not seeing it. And if they could only do this one thing, like their problem would be solved. And I'm so frustrated. How do I

get them to change? Frustration in this particular context will be felt when we're looking at their condition, their position, their interpretation through our eyes. We have to get ourself into a position to be able to see their projection, their position, their condition, their interpretation through their eyes. condition, their interpretation through their eyes. That can be achieved over time. And the one thing that you want to stay clear from is frustration because frustration will shut down that observation. Frustration is why aren't they changing? But what you're striving to achieve is why aren't they changing? There's a different why. The why aren't they changing is the curious actually wanting to know why they're not changing rather than why as a statement. Why aren't they changing?

That's not curiosity, that's accusation. And so if you can get into the curious why, you can get down in there with them. And literally in the course of the time that you have available And literally, in the course of the time that you have available with them, if you get down in there with them, you start looking out through the same set of eyes, hearing through the same set of ears, experiencing through the same body almost. That's connectivity.

And in that connectivity, which by the way is a gut-brain thing, you feel it through your navel point. In that connectivity, you begin to share the experience that they're having and they begin to talk to you in a different way. They almost begin to talk to you like they're talking to themselves. And once they start to talk to you, like they're talking to themselves, you can start talking back to them as if you're talking from that same position. And all of a sudden, because they're listening to themselves and it's you talking, they're starting to hear you. And the one thing that you have to realize is that you can only take them a tiny bit in each moment. Because you take them any more than that, they're going to go back to the subconscious mind, the subconscious, which is going to make them revert back to my safety is in what I was not in what I'm changing into, because what I'm

changing into, it's completely unfamiliar to me. And that feels dangerous. But if you give them a sense of camaraderie, in other words, you're two people in the same body looking out through the same eyes, ears, et cetera. They feel like they've got a team to work with, a family to work with, and they don't feel scared even though it's unfamiliar. Yeah, but what you're talking about is dropping the judgment, approaching this person from a place of empathy, you know, with a capital E, like how can I truly understand this person's lived experience so that I can communicate with them

on an even playing field, right? And acceptance where they feel safe, which is an aspect of non-judgment. And I understand all of that, but I think when you were talking about the why, like what is the why question? Isn't the why question also like, why do I feel like I need to change this person?

Like, why is it upsetting to me that they're not changing? Or why is it upsetting to me that they're who they are and they're not doing things differently or the way that I would like them to be, right? And is it even my business to get involved with that? If there's an investment, if there's an investment, it's your business. The investment is family, yeah?

The investment is associates, working relationships, professional or personal. The investment is a caring. You use the word empathy with a capital E. Those are the investment factors. So if there is an investment, and in my sense, there's always an investment at some point in time because we're all living on the same planet and we all affect each other that's the nature of the fact that we're all sharing this this planet i love george carlin's why were why was government created did you ever hear that routine uh probably and he said he said the reason that government was created because someone took a dump on the trail and somebody came back into camp and said, we got to make some rules around here. And it was, you know, how do we make, how do we make change

so that we don't need to live by rules in those relationships in which we want to have camaraderie rather than a set of rules that we all have to follow. We want to have that natural camaraderie. And that's the investment that we need to honor. And like you were saying earlier, if you come in to try to control, then the why isn't so and so changing becomes a why of frustration but if you think about the idea of living in camaraderie living living in commonality then the why becomes the curious why the why becomes a how how can we how can we change and maybe maybe it's not, maybe we discover in the camaraderie partway through the change process that I thought I came here to change you.

And actually what's happening is that we're both changing to become a common good. Yeah, I mean, quite often, you can't change another person, you can change yourself. So if you're discontented with a certain kind of social dynamic,

you can either, you know, focus that attention on trying to get the other person to change, or you can change your attitude or relationship with the dynamic, right? Like that's the easier shift. Like, what is it about me that's so resistant or so repelled by this? Maybe I can work on myself to be more accepting, et cetera,

more flexible, what have you. And certainly there are situations in which, you know, somebody is doing something that requires some kind of intervention, right? Some kind of loving, compassionate, like, hey, we need to kind of course correct where this person's at. Maybe they can't see what they're doing to themselves or in a loving way, like, hey, we need to kind of course correct where this person's at. Maybe they can't see what they're doing to themselves

or in a loving way, like, how can we come to this person's aid? But there are other situations in which maybe it isn't appropriate for you to intercede. And I think in thinking about the nature of change and how a person changes, lasting change only comes from a place of willingness, like willingness that is percolating from within. It doesn't come from being impulsed by an external source or some

kind of pressure from another human being. That might create a short-term change, but there will most likely be a reversion back to the norm. And it's only when that person realizes that they actually want to change or they have that willingness, a sort of profound desire that is within themselves, that that change stands a chance of actually not only transpiring, but withstanding the test of time. And I think that that is a factor that comes into play in terms of how one intercedes or gets involved with somebody who they think they're trying to help. But maybe if that person is on, this is like a recovery thing, but if someone's on a downward slide, but they're not ready, maybe you got to let them hit,

go a little bit deeper down until that pain point is sufficient enough that it creates a, you know, a receptivity to doing something different. When you started in that, in that thought and you said, maybe it's me that has to change. Oftentimes I have found over the decades of life that once I start to make that change that you described, the other one starts to make the change too. And we meet at some sort of elevated paradoxical condition that incorporates both of our perhaps needs or wants. And then that makes it happen further in what you were saying, if someone is not willing to change, there is a point where you say, well, I'm going to assign a much longer timeline on this one,

and I'm not going to look for any involvement or anything visible at this moment. Not going to look for it. Not going to look for it, not going to be frustrated by the fact that it doesn't exist at this moment. And then there are also those components that you described in which we become harmonic because I'm not trying to change you

and you're not feeling that. And the willingness that you talked about is that central heart piece, right? The hope and the will and the courage. And that willingness is, okay, now we're starting to go in the fourth dimension, which is time, right? Third dimension of space, fourth dimension of time,

because that's the heart. So all of a sudden I'm willing. Now the other person's willing. I'm hopeful. Now the other person's hopeful. Now our timing, and you said dance earlier. Now our timing is starting to work really well. Our dance is starting to coordinate. everything is starting to work. Now all we have to do is just maintain the steps, maintain those incremental steps. And when we find someone who needs that tolerance, right? Maybe they have to hit bottom, you said, somebody that really needs an intervention. Even in those instances, I've found that if I can

find them in the reflective universe, right? If I can find them in a pixel of myself, the image that I have of myself, one little pixel has that person dead to center. So if I can get in touch with that tiny piece of myself that's identical to that crazy ass person with all of their disarray, now I'm gonna be able to, as the Buddha once said, the places I am to go, I shall go.

The people I am to meet, I shall meet. But the most important part of that prayer was the things I'm supposed to say will form on my lips as I speak. So if I can find that commonality with that crazy ass person that is being so outrageous or being so destructive,

now we can start to have a conversation. Yeah, in you sharing that, I was thinking about the fact that, the adage that people just wanna be seen, they wanna be heard, and most people aren't. Exactly. They go through their lives and they feel unseen and they feel unheard and they feel irrelevant

or as if they don't have anything valuable to contribute. And that over time, of course, that's gonna lead to a sense of despair and perhaps in the most extreme cases, crazy making, right? Like how long can you go in your life if you feel invisible in that way? Big time. And you talked earlier about, you know, there may be traumas and

there may be different things that have occurred in a person's life that cause them to feel hopeless, that cause them to feel unable to make change. What if being seen and being heard What if being seen and being heard in a moment could dissolve some of the traumatic effects, the traumatic after effects? Psychologists, therapists, counselors have found that that's the case so often that what you said was when you're heard and when you're seen and it's true and it's authentic,

suddenly the things that have been hassling you internally, causing you to act out, causing you to be unwieldy, start to dissolve, start to disappear. And all of a sudden that which was traumatic sort of comes down a few notches to become just dramatic, comes down a few more notches, becomes manageable. Now, all of a sudden you've taken what was trauma and you've turned it into energy that can be used. You had to transmute that whole dynamic. Yeah. What do you think is the thing

that most gets in people's way when they're trying to master some kind of change? What is the primary obstacle that trips people up? Trying. Trying to master some kind of change. The mastery of change is available always. That's the nature of infinity. And I always say, this place has to be infinite

because if there's an end, what's on the other side of the end, right? So the laws of infinity are holographic, which means that everything is available always. Einstein talked about the continuum of time, that all time was in one moment. Our sensory system just divides it up into sequences. So that means that if I'm trying to master something, I'm going the long way around. But if I'm accepting the fact that mastery,

whether I think I have it or not, doesn't matter, but that mastery of this, whatever it is, exists. Now we've taken a major step, what Einstein called warp speed. We've taken a major step in bending time so that the distance between beginning and outcome has been dramatically shortened. If I just accept that the success, the outcome, the goal is right here.

My pathway is much easier. So how would one practice that, like in a practical sense? Like theoretically, I'm trying to wrap my head around what you just said. Affirmation. Yeah. Affirmation. I find that affirmations are like little kids jingles, right? Little kids sometimes tell themselves something. I'm going to be okay.

I'm going to be okay. I'm going to be okay. And we don't necessarily hear this because they're doing it silently inside themselves to themselves. But all little children have some kind of an affirmative conversation or the opposite, the polarity to that, depending upon how they're being raised. But if a small child is being raised in the idea that there are possibilities and opportunities, then the little child is going to be affirming to itself. So think about that in practical terms as an adult. Affirm to yourself that the universe is infinite and it can be taken care of.

And if I can just allow myself to go into that more relaxed state while still remaining aware and alert, then I will be picking up on the guide, the indicators. They will show me. I will see the sign on the roadway that says, going here, turn off there. I will hear the GPS system inside of myself because I have the goal and I had my starting point. So you talked about, you know, faith and trust earlier. If we would take faith and trust and put them into more of a consolidated practical term rather than just this elongated mystical term, right? You got to have faith, you know? Well, what does that mean, right? Well, what it means is you got to have faith that if you're driving down this freeway and off the freeway, there's a ramp

that is going to get you to the place where you're going. If you keep looking up at the signs, eventually you will see the sign that has the name and you will drive off. That's faith. eventually you will see the sign that has the name and you will drive off. That's faith. Faith based on something that's practical, something that's doable. But how do I know there's gonna be a sign? There is a sign.

That's the affirmation. Well, that's the faith piece, right? Like you have to believe that there will be some kind of indication of where to go. I would say that that's the affirmative piece, right? Like you have to believe that there will be some kind of indication of where to go. I would say that that's the affirmative piece. Give yourself the affirmation that the sign is there. The word confidence means con means with and fidens means faith. Confidence means with faith. So give yourself the confidence, give yourself the affirmation, the sign is there. And if the sign isn't there, I missed it. But if the sign isn't there,

couldn't that be an indication that maybe you're on the wrong path or you're chasing the wrong thing? Forgive yourself. Like, so how do you discern between the two? Like you could talk yourself into like, this is where I'm going and this is what I need to be doing and lack the self-awareness to understand like,

dude, you're way off tack. You know what I mean? Like, and maybe the universe is trying to nudge you, but you're like, no, no, no, this is where I'm heading. The signs are gonna be there. Meanwhile, you're ignoring all the signs that are kind of saying, Hey, maybe like, maybe like do a little bit, maybe not a U-turn, but like, you know, pivot. And you get to a place on that road that you realize that you are way

off, way off course, way off base, doing the wrong thing, having the wrong attitude, all those things. having the wrong attitude, all those things. Humor and forgiveness are essential in this process. Have absolute confidence, absolute affirmation, and then go for it. And if you're absolutely wrong, dead wrong, humor. Wow. I'll bet you there's been nobody on earth that's ever been that wrong.

I bet you I could get the gold medal for wrongness. And then forgiveness. Because forgiveness, as we've said before in previous podcasts, is giving yourself forward. Giving yourself back forward, so not being stuck on some bad attitude or some bad decision that you've made. But giving yourself forward to the present moment

and saying, okay, I'm gonna go forward with just as much confidence and just as much affirmation. And I'm going to go down this path, dead wrong, humor, forgiveness, and you're eventually going to get it right. You do need a healthy dose of humility. Like I would not mistake absolute confidence for some kind of calcified arrogance or certainty. Because I think that to kind of get this right, there's like a surfing of the wave, right? Like you're kind of riding these subtle energies and paying attention and allowing yourself

to be kind of guided here or there and not holding on too tightly. Like you may say, well, this is where I think I want to be heading. And this is, I have confidence that I want to achieve this thing, but there's a malleability, like a kind of detachment that you have to have, right? Like a non-attachment to the ways in which you're kind of being directed along the way. I love that. I love that relation between you and I, because you complete and I complete. You're absolutely correct. absolute confidence needs a big dose of humility. Because humility with absolute confidence steers clear of arrogance,

which is another word you used. And so absolute confidence with humility, with forgiveness, with humor, these are the components of the recipe because we're not going to get it right. Even with determination, even with certainty, we're not going to get it right. But to go forward, if you're going to go forward in your best capacity, absolute confidence is what gives you that. So you go forward with absolute confidence and then the moment you actually are registering, this is way off base, the humility to accept that, the humor to be okay with that, and the forgiveness to correct that. Those are the components that are absolutely

essential. And yeah, absolute confidence is very flexible. Yeah. That's a complicated recipe to stick in your air fryer and get right. I love it. I love it. The humor piece, like the self-love piece, that's a difficult one for me. Like when I go astray, the lack of self-love and forgiveness that I extend to myself, I think is a challenge for me

and probably for a lot of people. So I ask you then one question. Do you want to start intentionally inserting it, fake it till you make it, or do you want to continue to be in that condition until the pain becomes unbearable. So, well, that's my MO. Yeah. But I know, but what if, what if, and that's not a bad MO. I mean, you know, high pain tolerance, you achieve a lot, lot. But what if you began to insert into that equation, I wonder what would be if I did it this way this time. Not that I have to do it this way all the time, but I wonder what it would be if, because I just made such a wrong decision and I just pulled such a, you know, an upside downer, decision and I just pulled such a, you know, an upside downer. Wonder what it would be like if I didn't feel bad right now. If I didn't, you know, flog myself right now, I wonder what it would be like and just try it on occasion. I think that, uh, that calm, that, that piece is common between us. Harsh correction

can sometimes spill out onto others as well. And what I learned, what I'm learning, let me do a phrase correction. What I'm learning is a little bit of maple syrup in the chai tea rounds the edges of the spices, and they're not so tangy, and it's a more enjoyable experience.

And the maple syrup is the sweetener. And it's not, I'm going to be drinking honey. I'm not ever going to go there, right? I'm always going to have self-critical. I'm always going to be self-critical because that's how I've learned to maintain course. But I'm going to be, I'm going to sweeten it. Take the edge off. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll try that. Report back to you. I love it. You know, it's so cool because you inspire me,

I inspire you, and it's that dance. Well, I always love our conversations. This one did not disappoint. Maybe our best one yet. I thought it was brilliant. I'd love to have you take us out with a song, but before that,

how's the Kundalini University going? You've got this whole online robust community. And I wanted to give you an opportunity to share a little bit about that before we end today's conversation. Well, there's several layers for people that are just wanting to begin. We have these challenges, we call them. It's a kind of a word that's used in the, in the online world. Uh, these 28 day challenges that are free and we have lots of people, you know, a couple thousand people joining and they're real simple. They take seven to eight minutes a day. And that's in a community called the 13 moons. And so that's the doorway in.

And then for those that are more advanced, we have Kundalini University, which is a globally certified 200-hour training course of learning Kundalini, um, Kriya Yoga in a way that in my sense, it's never been taught before. It's like taking the traditions and then turning it into a science, which is always morphing so that it's applicable to the 21st century. It's not like only ancient teachings that are that are being brought in but it's ancient ancient teachings that are being combined with modern terminologies and technologies and circumstances so that people can navigate today's world. So those are kind of the layers. It's all

accessible through gurusingh.com. And the 13 moons is kind of an entry point, but it's also a point where there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of video. And in Kundalini University, there's 800 pages of manuals and 300 or 400 hours of video. So there's a lot of materials that are available. Yeah, it's cool. It's amazing what you've accomplished in this pivot since the pandemic began

and you let the studio go to move into this digital space and really create this robust curriculum and resource that's essentially an operating system for living. Like in the way that we're seeing the rebirth of certain ancient philosophies like stoicism being kind of conveyed for a modern audience as a practical, you know, as a practical solution to how we solve problems.

Like there's this idea that philosophy is just something that lives in dusty books and there's professors at colleges who talk about it. But actually like this can be very helpful in guiding our decisions to live better lives. And similarly, Kundalini yoga is a similar strain of philosophy and application for life that is rife with wisdom that is very practical

for how we're living in the modern age. So that's really cool what you're doing. I'm going to steal that because you just gave me an idea. KOS, right? Kundalini Operating System. There you go. Okay. You can trademark that one on me. You can trademark that one on me. On you. And that's the case because I always get very contrary to philosophy. I say we need to be practical. We can be philosophical 20%, but we have to be practical 80%. And I think the philosophy can work like the sweetener.

You know, it can't overwhelm, but it can make it smoother. But the philosophy dictates the practical application of a strain of thinking and being, right? Yeah. Cool, man. Cool. I think we did it. You're gonna play a song for us. I am. Good. All right Alright man, grab that guitar.

So we were talking about the holographic and confidence. To be confident that the infinite will take care of it. We're so fortunate to be confident. We're so fortunate. May the long time, the long, long time, sunshine all around us all. Everlasting oceans of love bring joy upon us all. So we're confident that the infinite will take care of it, most all of it. We're fortunate, we're fortunate. Let the long time The long, long time

Sunshine All upon us all Everlasting oceans of love Bring joy Everlasting oceans of love bring joy around us all. And the pure light of your pure light deep inside will be our guide. Deep inside will be our guide And then guide our way, our way on So that we can be confident

That the infinite will take care of it. Beautiful, man. Love you, my friend. Love you. Until next time. Until next time. Peace. Plants.

Peace. Vegetants. Peace. Vegetables and fruit. Nuts and grains. That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change in the Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do

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