The Rich Roll Podcast - Gustav Iden & Kristian Blummenfelt: Lessons From The Norwegian Train Reign

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

There are professionals. There are Olympians. But rare is the athlete who is so entirely and utterly devoted to sport in mind, body, and soul, that they exceed titles all together. Today I am lucky to host two of these extraordinary individuals: Norsemen Gustav Iden & Kristian Blummenfelt. In an unprecedented period of just 9 months, Kristian was crowned Olympic champion in Tokyo and bagged the fastest Ironman performance ever in his debut. After winning the 2021 70.3 World Champion title, this year Gustav had a spectacular 2022 debut victory at the Ironman World Championships in Kona—a race in which Kristian placed 3rd—emerging from Kristian’s formidable shadow and smashing the overall Kona course record with a blistering 7:40:24. On top of that, he rewrote the marathon course record with a 2:36;15 26.2.  Racing in tandem until the very end, Gustav and Kristian gave mindboggling, paradigm-crushing performances at the 2022 Ironman World Championship this year. It was an unforgettable barnburner of a race, and today we dive deep into the metrics and mechanics of that epic day. Watch: YouTube. Read: Show notes. Final Note: If you dig this conversation, look out for my upcoming podcast with their coach (and mad genius) Olav Aleksander Bu, which will be released in the not-so-distant future. The Norwegian Train is in the house. Tuck into that aero position, hammer some watts, and enjoy. Peace + Plants, Rich

The Rich Roll Podcast. We have a saying that we are not from Norway, we are from Bergen. Absolutely historic, folks. And he has done an amazing job. Come in and demolish the course record. It's one thing to lose because you're a weaker performer, but if you lose because you choose a bad tactics, then you just beat yourself up because tactic is so easy to do something with, it's just like a matter of choice.

The most important factor is nutrition and enough sleep. factories, nutrition, and enough sleep. Being these outliers, outsiders, nobody's really paying attention to what you're doing. This is over 10 years in the making. Your 2022 VinFast Ironman World Champion is Gustav Eden. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. Well, today we're in for a treat. We've got a couple Vikings in the house, the Norsemen taking over the world of triathlon with ferocity.

Their names are Gustav Eden and Christian Blumenfeld. And between these childhood friends and constant training companions hailing from Norway, there is no stone left unturned and no championship left unconquered. In an unprecedented period of just nine months, Christian was crowned Olympic champion in Tokyo. He recorded the fastest Ironman performance ever

in his debut at the distance in Cozumel. He became the first person to go under seven hours at the 140.6 distance in the Sub-7 Project, clocking an astonishing, assisted, yes, but still astonishing six hours and 44 minutes. And he also walked away victorious at the 2021 Ironman World Championships in St. George, Utah. On the other hand,

hot off an absolutely spectacular debut victory at the Ironman World Championships in Kona on October 8th, just 10 days ago, a race in which Christian placed third, Gustav Eden, who happens to be the 2021 70.3 World Champion, has now definitively emerged from Christian's formidable shadow, smashing the overall Kona course record with a blistering seven hours, 40 minutes and 24 seconds. Also rewriting the marathon course record with a two hour, 36 minute and 15 second, 26.2 along the way.

Personally, I was absolutely glued and 15 second, 26.2 along the way. Personally, I was absolutely glued to the Ironman World Championship live stream all day on October 8th. It was a barn burner of a race in which Christian and Gustav raced in tandem until the very end. And it was an absolute thrill to host both of them in studio literally just two days after the epic race, the details of which we cover extensively in this conversation.

We also discussed the nature of their unique training protocols, what a day in their lives looks like, the extreme science and data mining that underscores their training and racing protocols, as well as their advice for amateur athletes and more. In other words, how do they do it? Why are they so much better than everyone else? And what the heck is going on in Norway anyway? We'll get into all of that and more, but first. We'll get into all of that and more, but first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety.

And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care. Especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem, a problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders,

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step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices.

It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you.

Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Final note, if you dig this vibe, I also recorded a separate podcast with our coach,

Olaf Alexander Boo, who is a bit of a mad genius. And that's an amazing conversation that we will be releasing on a future, undetermined as of now date. So there is that to look forward to. Anyway, waste further precious seconds. We will not. The Norwegian train is in the house. So let's tuck into that aero position,

hammer some watts and enjoy. Welcome guys. I'm so excited to talk to you. How are you guys feeling? Right now, I'm extremely tired. My cords are not good, but I'm extremely tired. My cords are not good. Yeah. But I'm, yeah, extremely happy.

Uh-huh. Satisfied. Combination of hangover and just lack of sleep. And, yeah. I asked you guys if you were able to sneak in a little partying after the race, but no, right? You had to get on a plane and get to LA. Yeah, so we went to the banquet afterwards,

but that's just more like an award ceremony, so no party. And yeah, I went straight to bed and came here. Came here, your bikes didn't make it. But I can't see how people can even stay awake. When you've been out, it's getting up like 3.30 in the morning and then racing the whole day. And then when evening is coming, I'm just so, so tired.

Maybe they're saving themselves for the after party and that's why not winning. Maybe. That after party is probably going on right now. I would imagine. Well, I'm delighted that you've carved out time in your busy schedule to sit down with me. It's just a treat and an honor to talk to you both

on the wake of such an extraordinary race. But before we even kind of get into any of that, I need to remind you that the most important thing is that merely a year ago at the Malibu Triathlon, my relay took both of you guys out. And that is what is important today. Do you remember that? That's true.

Did you win, no Ross? I don't think we won. Maybe, did you guys win? I know we beat Christian's true. Did you win over us? I don't think we won. Maybe, did you guys win? I know we beat Christian's team. Who was on your relay? It was me, Cassandra Grant, and one of the actors from some Dustin, I can't remember the name.

Maybe you guys, did you guys win the relay? I think we won. Right. Or at least we came on the podium. I think we got second or third, I can't remember. I had Alexi Pappas and Mary I think we won. Right. Or at least we came on the podium. I think we got the second or third. I can't remember. I had Alexi Pappas and Mary Kane on my team. Okay.

Anyway. Just outside. Just outside, yeah. Priorities, right? The Malibu Triathlon Celebrity Relay. That was a fun one. Listen, you guys, what you both have accomplished together separately

is absolutely mind blowing. Obviously the big story is Kona the other day, a race in which all the barriers were broken, all the records were smashed and mostly by rookies, like of all the men in the top four, they were all rookies, right? Ironman Hawaii rookies at least. And Gustav, you broke the previous course record

set by Jan Frodeno back in 2019, absolutely destroyed it. Christian, you were third, but you're coming off an Olympic victory, the fastest ever Ironman ever recorded, the sub seven project. I mean, between the two of you guys, there is no record that has been left untouched and it's really an extraordinary feat. So here we are days after Kona and I guess, you know,

I asked you how you're feeling, but have you had a moment to kind of reflect back on the race with some perspective on what this means and kind of what it's setting you up to do next? I just felt like I've been walking from selfie to selfie and media request to media request. So I haven't really had the time to sit down with Ola, my coach and Christian to do a bit more analyzing and yeah, really see how we did. So yeah, I don't think I realized what I've done yet mm-hmm yeah I think

we have two different feelings about race because obviously both of us want to win and so I like when we flew in here yesterday like when I was listening to music the only thing I was thinking about like why didn't I win like and then what could have have done differently? And so I've had a little bit of time to reflect, but it's just like in the back of the mind. Right. So obviously unfinished business for you, Christian.

And it's interesting, cause you guys grew up together, you've known each other forever, you do all your training together. There is this comradery, this friendship, but also a rivalry. And, you know, all eyes were on the both of you running together, you know,

through the latter part of the marathon, who was gonna break away and when was that gonna happen? And most of the spotlight has been on you, Christian, because of your past performances. Gustav, you hadn't yet had that opportunity to really kind of flex and shine. You missed that opportunity in St. George by being sick. So this was really your moment.

Did you have the confidence going in that you could accomplish this? Are you surprised or, you know, how are you feeling about kind of emerging from, you know, I don't wanna say shadow in a pejorative way, but you've always been sort of a little bit behind Christian in terms of attention and expectations, even though you won the 70.3 World Championship

and all the rest of your accomplishments. Yeah, so I don't think I link my confidence to past performance that much, and especially not to media attention. So back in 2019, I looked at myself as a favorite to win the 70.3 World Championship, even though basically no one thought I could do it. So yeah, for sure I thought I could win this race. As I said, me and Christian training together and we know where the level is at. And I felt really strong, especially the run lately.

So I knew I had a really good chance of beating Christian in a race. And I knew if I was beating Christian, the reigning world champion, then I think I would beat everyone else as well. Yeah, and this rivalry that you have, are you still buddies? Like you guys cool with each other?

You got to spend all this time together. Yeah, it's like, I would say quite cool dynamic because in training, we try to build each other up as much as possible and really get the best out of every training session. But it's on race day, it's the same up to a certain point where you're trying to... You're working together throughout the race all day long.

You want to beat him, but you also want him to perform. I felt we had a moment on the way back from Javi when Magnus had the penalty. And we had Sam Laidlow up front, even though we didn't believe he would be able to run. And then we were like, maybe both understanding, okay, now it's actually just a race between you and me. But then still we can't let Sam get away

and we can't get the guys behind just to catch up. So we still have to work together. Yeah, so it's a really interesting dynamic, I have to say. Yeah, there was a lot of teamwork on the bike and on the run. I mean, I noticed coming out of every aid station, you would swap who would lead. Like there was a lot of like cooperation there until it's sort of coming out of the energy lab

and then it's anybody's game. That wasn't really collaboration. It wasn't. I made you. So tell me what was going on. He forced me. So I went to lead and had to lead had a lead for most of the run. But I didn't want to...

It's one thing to lose because you're a weaker performer. But if you lose because you choose a bad tactics and that you could have done differently and then won, then you just beat yourself up because tactic is so easy to do something with. It's just like a matter of choice. And if I had run up to Energy Lab in the front, in the headwind the whole way,

and Christian would take me like the last few Ks, I would be so, so, so mad. Sure. So your turn, you get in front. Yeah, I tried to make him go to the front as well. That's the upside and downside of why you're training so much together. Because I knew to make him go to the front as well. That's upside and downside by training so much together. Because I knew that he was coming in

in great run shape. And if I wanted to have a chance to beat him, I couldn't share the work with him. I had to really play my card right. And so every time... Yeah, we both tried to play our cards. It was just that they didn't match up. Yeah.

And it's interesting because you know each other's cards. So there's no secrets, right? Yeah, but I was a bit uncertain because, yeah, Sam Laidlaw, way up front, he still had like four minutes or 340 after, I don't know, 20K or something. And I knew that I had to run quite fast to catch him because it was no sign of him blowing up and i had my brother on course and he said sam is actually looking good right and yeah

no sign of him blowing so uh yeah i wanted to catch him obviously but also didn't want christian to just sit behind and wait for a sprint. Right. So I made him go to the front, but every time he went to the front, he was running, yeah, not slow in like the general slowness, but quite a bit slower than what I was running when I was to the front. So we were actually losing a bit of time when he went to the front. And I thought that this guy is playing it so cool now. He is, yeah, doing like this insane mental game,

trying to get me to work the whole way. But I realized that soon we were fighting for a second place and none of us wanted only second place. So then I have to make my move and yeah, go after it. Yeah, I mean, it was interesting seeing Laidlaw up front for so long and the expectation being, of course, that he would blow up. He's a rookie, he's so young.

It's just a matter of time. You guys are gonna eat this guy alive at some point. And yet he continued to maintain that gap, kilometer after kilometer and even into the run, right? So at some point you realize like, we gotta make a move probably earlier than we would have ordinarily because this guy might make it to the finish line.

Like it becomes, you know, a matter of how much real estate you have left. So I know in a, you know, there was an interview with you, Gustav, there was some sort of smack talking between the two of you guys, Christian, you were like, well, I've been beating Gustav in training for the last two weeks handily.

This is going to be no problem. And you were saying, yeah, but you know, he doesn't know I'm holding back. Wait till the last five miles. But you made your move at, I think with like eight miles to go. Yeah, so my plan was always to really kick it after Energy Lab.

We developed a new shoe together with ON. And it's been a really, really cool project. And that shoe is just... You got the plug in. The sponsor plug. This is, yeah. I'm working up to the point now. You got some media training in you?

The shoe is made for the faster bits, like downhill and tailwind. It's just perfect for those conditions. So out of Energy Lab, I was struggling a bit, was going uphill. So you did struggle. Yeah, but Christian also had a gap on me there.

So I thought he was just playing with me. No, I did also, but I did lose... You guys haven't talked about this yet? Not too much. We're going from media to media. So this is the first time we have to lay it all down. So you get the fresh conversation.

I appreciate that. Keep going. But yeah, he had a gap on me there. And I knew that he knew that he had a gap on me. And normally when you have a gap, that is where you try to accelerate a bit to just break the rubber. But yeah, he didn't do it.

So then I knew how he was like kind of on the limit so out of energy lab i just accelerated and right and went for it and when you made that acceleration you knew you had to gap him like with force right rather than just sort of slowly pull him along like you had to just break the chain for christian or for sam for for christian yeah yeah that gap yeah and then to eat up time so that you were sure you were going to pass sam in time before the finish line yeah at that time i was more worried about sam actually because uh he was still two minutes up the way and no sign of slowing down but But I ran like a period there, I ran a three minute case in the marathon.

It was downhill, but still. So what is that per mile pace, like 530s or something? Quicker? I have no idea. I know you guys do kilometers. Insane, like my kind of overall takeaway just from watching the race is that it's just at a whole new level. Like I'm used to seeing, you know,

people blow up on the run and even the best, like walking at times or throwing up and having GI issues, all that stuff that, you know, we've all seen over the years. And this just looked like a sprint from start to finish. Obviously you had incredible conditions. There wasn't any wind. So it's not a surprise.

That's a lie. It didn't look like it. I mean, these bike splits are unreal. Yeah, but it was still was wind, but the wind was, it was quite favorable. It wasn't like insane conditions, but it was good. And especially on the run, I felt like it was a lot of wind, especially going out.

Yeah, that was a lot of headwind. Did you get some overcast late in the day or no? No, it was in the start. Right in the beginning of the bike. But also the start was like earlier this year. You guys started in the dark basically, which is unusual. 6.25. Yeah, so maybe that, I don't know.

Yeah, me neither. Because those times, we don't know when they normally start. We're rookies in Ireland. But nobody's blowing up, nobody's walking, nobody's vomiting, everybody is so dialed. Like even through transitions, everything, like the execution was flawless. So the competition level is just, you know,

beyond anything that we've ever seen. I mean, it's crazy. Like even Kinlay had like an unbelievable race. Was that his fastest time? Yeah. And he was way back there. You know, it's like he didn't even, fifth or something like that, I think.

How many guys broke the bike course record? I think it was only Ledlow. Who broke the bike course, yeah. Well, Cam were, no, I think like a bunch of you, well, Cam's record was like 409, I think, right? Okay, and we did 411, I think. Oh, you did, okay. I thought a whole bunch of guys.

Yeah, but the overall record, plenty of people did. Oh, yeah we did 411, I think. Oh, you did? Yeah. Okay. I thought a whole bunch of guys. Yeah. But the overall record, plenty of people did. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. But 10 guys on the eight hours that like, it's just like,

four or five years ago, that was like the coolest record as well. Right. So the whole field has been just improving and getting faster and I guess getting more knowledge about how to really race a full distance arm and not just finish it.

Right. Because often that has been, yeah, the last survivor who was gonna win. And now you really have to be able to be tactical and really push that last bit and race it. Yeah, no mistakes. You can't make any mistakes and expect to win. One of the things about Kona, this race in particular

and the big island is sort of the mystique around it. The spirituality of the island, the mana, not ruffling the feathers of Madame Pele. And I know Christian, you're like, I don't have time for that. Like that's a bunch of nonsense, but having not achieved your goal this year, are you rethinking that?

Are you gonna get down on your knees for Madame Pele a little bit? You know, like Mark Allen talks a lot about this. It took him seven years and it wasn't until he kind of like had a reverence or like a humility for the forces of that very special place that he was able to conquer it and win. Maybe I should have put lava rock in his bag.

So he left with it. Yeah, the worst omen for people that don't know, like never remove a lava rock from the island. No, I think like, I did still had a decent performance myself. So it's not like I blew up and walked in energy lab. So I don't think it was the mystery of the island that I didn't win. But of course, watching the videos from his finish shoot

and seeing all the people there, it's really a race. I do want to cross the finish line first. And I do have to come back and experience that feeling. I guess it was amazing. Yeah, it was amazing. And I actually spoke to Mark a bit about it. So as a winner, you have to have a speech at the banquet and ask him, what should I say?

And he said that I should give more credit to the island and less credit to my lucky hat. So I have, yeah. So what did you say? Did you take that in? No. No? No. He's speaking some wisdom there.

You should ponder that. Do some journaling around that idea. You said after the race, like, I don't know if I'm coming back, like one and done. Is that how you're feeling still? I wouldn't say one and done, but I would come back first thing. For now it's all about Paris Olympics for me, 2024.

And yeah, it's hard to keep your priorities straight when you have so many opportunities and you have so many things to do. So I think for now it's better to just say no and try to focus only on Paris. Right, and Christian reflecting on the race and your performance, are you thinking about how you can improve,

what went wrong, where you can make changes? Like where is your head at? You're not used to coming in third. So what's going on inside that brain? Well, now it's more like to understand why I was struggling so much to keep up with him on the run. Like if it was because of the surges on the bike or if I was just not good enough in the run training before.

But it's difficult to have like a pure answer to it. So, yeah. Back in the lab. And you just try to, you're just questioning yourself like all the time and you just feel like, okay, I really have to come back. Yeah. Well, you seem like somebody who is motivated

by these sort of circumstances. I think I'm getting more motivated by this, like finishing third and I'm by winning races because then it's just back in the mind and just, yeah, it's like painful the whole, for weeks afterwards. And luckily now we have another race in St. George in two and a half weeks. And that's more like, okay, I can get my revenge there

and use that to kind of forget this race a little bit. Right, I mean, typically after a race like Kona, most athletes would take a break. In two weeks you have 70.3s, no break for you guys. And that's an interesting amount of time. Like you can't really do any buildup. You've got to recover from Kona. All you can do is really sort of rest

and sharpen the edge of your sword a little bit, right? But it's not just that we have St. George, we have the following week, we go back again to Olympic distance for the Bermuda race. And then three weeks later we have the grand final. So we've been through all the different distances. It's like mid season for you. Yes, so I think we use three, four days more for recovery.

And then maybe some intensity for the weekend and then trying to dial in some speed again for a shorter distance. Right, all right. So you guys are known as the Norwegian train. Everybody is fascinated by what's happening in Bergen. I'm gonna talk to Ola after I talk to you guys and we can dive into the science,

but I think people are fascinated by and interested in like what it is that you guys are doing that's different, like why are you so good? Why are you so fast? So can we talk a little bit about your approach to training and what has distinguished you guys from what everyone else is doing? I think it's people talk like what's in the water

in Bergen or something, but I think it is slightly random that we have that many good athletes from Bergen, but it's definitely a culture thing. So me and Christian, we have been basically in lower training for yeah, 15 years. Yeah, so you guys were like 13 years old, right? At a high level. 12. So even before that, we did a lot of training,

but we have been, I see myself as a professional since I was basically 14 years old. I was training better then than some pros do today. So I think it's been a lot of volume, high quality training for many, many, many years that has made us into the athletes we are today. And it's not some, yeah, I don't know, higher power. And I guess we've also been living in this bubble like within the group and not just looking at what everyone else is

doing but we like if we want to catch up we have to be more extreme we have to train more we have to take it like one step further in every part of the sport and I think also the fact that we've been like in that bubble has really helped us to just accelerate. Right, kind of being these outliers, outsiders, nobody's really paying attention to what you're doing. And you could kind of go deep when the stakes were low and there were no expectations

and find a certain kind of groove that ultimately is paying dividends. I mean, this is like over 10 years in the making. And also no history in the sport because we had no history, we had to make the pathway ourself. So we haven't just been following someone. Yeah, and if you're known for being

the ones who train the best, the ones to train the most extreme, it's kind of like a positive feedback loop. So since everyone is saying, yeah, you're training the best, you're the smartest, so scientific, you kind of grow into that even more. And that makes you think, okay, we have to do everything more, have to do everything more scientific.

So it's for sure, it's good to be known to be good because then you think you're good yourself. So I think it's something about that as well. Well, I see it as a confluence of all of these factors that you couldn't have predicted. Like you have, you come from a cycling background originally, right? And Christian, you come from swimming.

Swimming, believe it or not. Yeah, no, I can believe it. from swimming. Swimming, believe it or not. Yeah, no, I can believe it. At a time when Norway hadn't put anybody on a triathlon Olympic team for, I don't know how long, ever maybe. Yeah, never.

Never before. But suddenly you have an interest in Norway for truly developing a professional approach to the sport with, what was his name, Arid Tveiton? Arid Tveiton. Yeah, I'm never gonna pronounce that right. And who came into the picture around 2011, and then with OLAV entering around 2015, 16,

observing what was going on at the Rio Olympics and then bringing a whole level of new professionalism and science into the approach. So it's like these individuals who kind of come together with athletes like yourself and Casper, of course, who are highly motivated and willing to go all in, like without any one of those elements, none of this happens.

So it's kind of a really special thing. I think of it as sort of like, and willing to go all in, like without any one of those elements, none of this happens. So it's kind of a really special thing. I think of it as sort of like Bergen and triathlon is not dissimilar culturally from like what was happening with grunge music in Seattle in the 90s. Like it's like a special place where there's an energy and a focus that ultimately over time,

ripples out and create something really cool and unique. And I think also the fact that when we started so young, we had this 10 years vision within the team. So when we were 16, 17, we had, it wasn't just that we should be winning the junior world championship the next year or getting into the next World Cup. We did think like 10 years ahead and we had that support and believe and understanding that it's like a long journey

that we're having ahead of us when we started back in 2010, 2011. And I think we got support from the Olympic team even in 2014, and not just for Paris, I mean, for Rio, or not just for Tokyo, but also for Paris back in 10 years ahead. And that long-term vision, I think, has been good to have like behind us. It's so important, that long-term view.

Like we're not gonna be world champions overnight. We're gonna look at this in 10 year blocks and we're thinking way, way down the line, like for anybody who's trying to achieve any kind of goal, like having that kind of lens and building the foundation and the consistency over a huge period of time. I mean, that's truly how you achieve outrageous,

audacious results. Yeah, and yeah, we've done a lot of things right over the years, but we have also learned a lot. And I think the way we approached it in the start was a bit too extreme for many of the athletes. So Christian said it's the egg philosophy. So you take the whole basket of eggs and just throw it at the wall and then see who doesn't crack.

You weeded out a lot of people early. So how many are there of you now on the team? From the start, we are four. So we haven't compared to like bigger nation, we haven't burned to like bigger nation we haven't burned through too many really we had

quite a few dropouts way in the start because yeah the volume was a bit high and a lot of injuries and yeah but that's also because

we didn't have any qualification standards it was more like we'll open up the door so everyone who wants to come in like if we were just thinking about triathlon

you could come in and be a part of the first camp that we had. So I think it's also down to that. Back then, I went there with my brother and one of the main guys in triathlon Norway, he said, those Eden brothers, they will never learn how to swim. They will never become anything.

He said that he regret those words and he's a really cool dude, but it's a bit funny looking back now. Yeah, the ultimate revenge you've had on that. But he didn't actually say it to me though, so that's good. Right. Let's talk about the particulars of the training and the data mining that you guys are doing.

I mean, I think most people who are in the endurance world or who have participated in triathlon or Ironman kind of understand lactate testing fundamentally or zone training and periodization. But you guys have taken kind of those traditional approaches and just elevated it to a whole new place. Like I think you're doing like lactate pricks like multiple times throughout every single session,

doing multiple sessions a day, seven days a week. Like what exactly, like dispel some of the mystique here. Like walk me through like what you're understanding and I'll get deeper into it with Olaf. But from your perspective as athletes like what are you doing when you're doing all this testing and how is that impacting your approach to training recovery and racing yeah so it's not that we do lactate on every single session but it's some periods you really have more focus on it. And we do lactate both to calibrate your own feeling of intensity control.

So I think it's a lot of mystery how we do the lactate testing and no one is really understanding it completely. And that even includes me. So I understand the numbers, I understand how i'm feeling but sometimes olav is saying something that doesn't really make sense to me but then we do one more test and it's like yeah it was correct so the lactate testing is so advanced that yeah and basically what it's doing it's telling you where your certain thresholds are, like how much you're dipping into your glycogen stores. Like how, you know, are you training your aerobic engine?

Are you tipping into your anaerobic? Like, what are you learning about that, that then impacts like the kind of sessions that you're doing? Well, it's quite complex. So the whole idea is to just maximize. So to have your engine, so you can really maximize your engine for the distance you're racing.

For example, when we're preparing for a short distance race, then we want to have a different lactate response for the energy, where we're getting the energy from. And sometimes you do want to have a quicker, like that production, for example, for a shorter distance of racing. And when you go into a longer distance, then you want to have the opposite. So it really depends on where your metabolic profile is.

Right, and you guys are very different athletes, right? And I'm sure your training is very personalized to your specific. Yeah, so we, in general, we trend opposite direction. So if we just train exactly the same, I would trend more and more explosive, but Christian would trend slightly different direction. And so we have to do some adjustment in the training plan.

So we do some small metabolic tests to plan so we do some uh yeah small metabolic um test to see where we at because uh yeah we have like this um yeah period of uh really specialization into the race so the last bit of uh preparation going into kona olav said uh yeah you gustav we need to put a bit more threshold training into this program now because your trend is not where we want it to be. So we have to do slightly difference. So it's not that we're training like a different program, but it's more instead of the last 10 minutes of a threshold session,

I might go longer, like twice the distance, but Christian might go harder to like twice the distance, but Christian might go harder to like balance out the different. Right, you're more of like a top end guy. Christian, you have this huge anaerobic capacity, but that means that you have to learn how to back off, right? Because you can dip into that and go too deep too soon. No, I think more opposite.

I got that all wrong. Even though I look very muscular and like strong, I do miss that top end power. So I really need to do those surges in training. So while he naturally had that top end speed and he can do that final K super fast in training, but that's gonna be more costly for him than it is for me. He'll need more recovery. Really sprinting that final K super fast in training, but that's gonna be more costly for him than it is for me. He'll need more recovery.

Really sprinting that final K. So often how we like do our session differently into a big race is that I can do more high intensity and he have to be- But I might do a long threshold session instead. Right, right, right. And that's also why I can race back to back to back in short distance races

because the stimulus I'm getting from the race is almost just a positive stimulus for next weekend while you will then be producing more and more lactate. I'm an explosive beast towards the end. Right. So you have a crazy VO2 max, Gustav, right? Yeah, we both have above 90 at our end. Right. So you have a higher, you have a crazy VO2 max, Gustav, right? Yeah, we both have, yeah. Above 90 at our peaks.

Right. But right now I'm certain I'm pretty low. So yeah, it costs a lot to have a high VO2 max and to do an Ironman, you want to be as efficient as possible. So we now basically at our lowest VO2 max, I think in a few years because of the general training we've been doing

so now it's a challenge to try to get it back up and get it to the standard of the Olympic distance racing and you Christian you're sort of like Michael Phelps you don't produce lactate right?

it's so annoying sometimes I like have to slow down lactate, right? It's so annoying sometimes. I like have to slow down, slow down, slow down in altitude training especially. We're training in Sierra Nevada in Spain, 2,300 meters above sea level. I don't know what that is in feet. It's like 8,500 isn't it?

Yeah, 8,500 feet. And yeah, I feel like I'm jogging at threshold and I still have too high lactate, so I just have to slow down. And then I see Christian, oh, you have to increase, you're running too slow. And even though it's the right stimulus, I need to run slower

because that is the best way for me to perform. You feel so shit when you're training at a speed slower than my arm and pace. So yeah, it can be a bit annoying sometimes seeing his- Right, because conversely, Christian, like altitude doesn't really affect you, right?

But then you also don't get that hemoglobin boost from that stimulus. I do get a good stimulus, but I think it's more down to that have such big lungs so at threshold work I can I'm just I still have enough oxygen for the the workload or like to stay to keep the pace high yeah so it's yeah especially when we do bike intervals then we start that yeah 3 000 feet and work our way up and I feel so good in the start. Right.

Like now it's a lot of oxygen. I'm ready to push, low lactate. And then we come like halfway off the mountain and I see Christian like just increasing the power and I'm just struggling more and more. So it can be a bit annoying to train me sometimes with his lactate response. But yeah, I know it's the best for me.

So it helps, but yeah. There I'm opposite because if we are riding down from Sierra Nevada, then it's tend to be like 25 degrees. So it's significant warmer than it's up in Sierra Nevada. So I'm more feeling the heat is slowing me down. And then the higher up I climb, like up to maybe 1700, 2000 meter, that's where like the fresh air is coming. So when he's starting to feel a lack of oxygen,

then I'm more feeling the bonus of having fresh, cold air. So I can just accelerate. What's interesting about that is it's gotta keep the training because you guys do all your training together fresh, like you're very different, right? So it's not like if you were equally matched in your strengths and weaknesses, like you're very different, right? So it's not like if you were equally matched in your strengths and weaknesses,

you guys might burn out, like having to train with each other every single day. But understanding that you operate differently, you can still have that camaraderie because it's not like, I don't know, like you're not like racing each other every single day. No, no, no, no. So we like to like win every single day. No, no, no, no. So we like to win every single session,

but to win a session is not that you go the fastest of the last 400 meters, except if we have like a race prep session and the point is to go as fast as you can the last 400 meters. It's more that you want to hit the optimal numbers all the time. You want to have the best...

Execute on the intention of the workout. Best execution, yeah. So I think that's where we're excelling the most as well because we have a deeper understanding of what we're doing and why we're doing the session. And if you know why you're doing a session, you understand more the changes you could do yourself. So if someone just tells you run 10 times 1K

and you don't understand why you're doing it, you would just go out and do 10 times 1K. But if you have an understanding of what pace you should be running at and what optimal execution is, then you can, for example, run progressive or the last bit even faster, or yeah, you can change up the session

according to what your daily need is. So I think that's where we are really, really good. Yeah, and what is the partnership with Olav like? Like, does he say, here's what we're doing, and then you do it, or is it more a dialogue where you're like, okay, here's how I'm feeling today. Like, is there a discussion about it?

Is there ever pushback when he says, I want you to do this and you're like, no, I don't think I should be doing that today. Or just whatever he says you do. Yeah, so he can say, we should do this. And then me and Christian will come with a suggestion. Oh, we want this. And then he says why we shouldn't do it

and explains why we are wrong. But then you have to take the consequences of that. Yeah, so it's all about consequences. So we can say, yeah, we need to swim a bit harder because in the swim we'll be lacking a bit. And me and Christian both think that we need to change the swim program a bit and do a bit shorter

and more intensity swim sessions in the pool. And it's like, yeah, you can do that, but here's the consequences. And we do a lot of discussion, and Olav is a great teacher, so we learn why we are wrong. But we also plan, or he plans like probably six months in advance. But then also like we change maybe,

and then you have like the three weeks plan. But then you can also change like the last three, four days. We always like have like a bigger picture, but we can also change very quickly the sessions. So if we, within the next week, see that we are where we want to be in terms of Vietomax then we are not

just keeping up the program and trying to improve the Vietomax just because that's a plan but then we can change the focus and work on our

limitation for the next race right but since he planned so much in advance we can come to a training session and he has no idea what we're doing like

he planned everything he knows why we're doing. Like he had planned everything. He knows why we're doing it. He knows like the details when he's planning it. But when we come to the training session, it's like, I can't remember why I wrote this, but it must be a reason behind it. We have then have to tell him the program when he's at the pool deck.

So, okay, today we have the 400 with 90 seconds rest. And then it takes like maybe one minute. He has to like scan his whole brain. And then he comes up, he remembers why we're doing it. And then we can do the session. Or he can change it. Yeah. No, I'm not agree with myself.

Two weeks ago, I changed it. Yeah, two weeks ago, me was stupid. Now let's change to 400 meters instead. Yeah. Christian, if you pull up the sleeve on your left arm, you can see the continuous glucose monitor that you have there. Do you wear one as well?

I'm interested, you got, so are you both with super sapiens on that? Yeah. What have you learned from using that in terms of how you're managing glucose and how that impacts your daily nutrition and also race nutrition. Yeah, so for me, the biggest learning was that sometimes

in especially altitude training, I could get really, really tired and borderline sick. And it usually happened, yeah, twice every altitude camp. And then I noticed throughout the night before i got tired i had basically low sugar levels through the whole night and just trying to be more aware of the continuous eating and even if the rest day tried to stay on top of the nutrition and eat more so i does it impact the type of foods that you eat not really and I was surprised actually because you think that drinking coke or yeah sugary product that you would spike but for me

I spike the same if I eat bread or like slow releasing carbohydrates and everything so it's yeah for me it's only the mornings I have like insane spike in the morning, no matter what I eat. But I haven't changed my breakfast or anything. I just see what the number give me. Much the same. And I think the most important is like you're learning to really feel quickly after the sessions.

We're always like on top of nutrition. So because if not, it's easy to go like 40 to 60 minutes after a tough run session before you're getting your something to eat. But when you're aware of your glucose level, it's easy to be kind of planning and then having a routine. So you're always having like calories on board.

Right, so monitoring that, does that spill over into how you're feeling throughout a race? Feeling throughout the race is pretty simple. It's get as much in as you can tolerate. So we're working with Morten, a Swedish company, and that has allowed us to basically go way, way, way higher in the carbs than what is normally considered okay for the stomach. So I think using Super Sapiens could be helpful, but it's basically just do as much as you can tolerate for us. And even there, we're doing some samplings where we are, so because of the special types of carbohydrates that's in the Morton,

Ola and the Morton team can, based on our breath, analyze how many grams we are able to take up when you are riding. Based on your breath. Yeah, and then by looking at the VitoMaster or the oxygen intake we're using and the power, they can then calculate how sustainable this is. So, you know, for Ironman,

it's easy to do 350 watts for a given period of time. But when you then have to do it for 300 watts for like four hours and then run after it, then at one point you will most likely just bunk. But based on this, like you can calculate and see like how far you can get and how much power you can produce without ending up in the basement.

Right, yeah, there is something specific about what Morten is doing that is really helpful in terms of staving off the GI distress that you see particularly in humid places like Kona. Yeah, so they have this technology that doesn't, the carbs don't get absorbed as early as other products so it is basically encapsulated in hydrogel. So it goes longer or deeper into the system before you take it up

so you don't have the same stress in the stomach. Right. But saying that also, before one of the big sessions I had before Kona, I felt fine and we went running. It was a brick session and we came maybe 10K into the run and I just vomited everything I had in my stomach.

And I don't know if it was the Morton or the heat or what it was, but at that point I was a bit stressed for the race because yeah, under two weeks out and vomiting is not optimal when you're racing. So still with the best product in the world, you can do things wrong. And I was lucky I didn't have any rain. Didn't you just have a Coke? Yeah, but I really felt like, I felt it coming. And I tried to just have some different taste in my mouth and just drink something different. So I felt like, okay, now I'm gonna puke.

Took like the smallest sip of Coke and then just everything came up. That's scary. Also, I'm sure being a student of the sport and knowing that many a great champion has been felled by that very thing. Like Maka talks about it all the time. It took him years to figure out

like how to not have GI distress just so he could like run the way that he had trained to run to win the race. Yeah, but we're kind of lucky both of us because we can handle a great amount in training, but also in a day-to-day life, just eating a lot. But figuring that out, there was a very scientific approach

that I can't wait to talk to all of about. I mean, I know that you would drink water that was laced with isotopes to try to figure out your, you know, what, not just like how much glycogen you should be taking in, but you know, whether or not the glycogen you were burning was from your glycogen stores versus the foods that you were eating,

like getting really data-driven about the specifics of that to kind of dial in what that nutrition plan should be. Yeah, that was more to find out what our actual consumption of- Or figuring out- To see the whole budget you can train. Because with the water that we drank and then later on peed on every morning,

you could see then how many calories we could burn through over like two weeks period of time without losing weight. And then we really tried to do as much training as possible. And based on these numbers, then we'll have can then in his training plan, he can see that, okay, if you do this amount or this so long bike ride with this power, then you're gonna burn through so many calories.

And if we do this every day, then you will be burned out because you can't eat enough. So it's more for him to have this budget of how much he can actually give us in training. Right. So we have a lot of people with us or more before, but we had a lot of people joining us for training camps. And we call it the 10-day crack.

So a lot of people can train a lot for a week without feeling burnt out. But after about 10 days, when you're training too much every day and you're eating too little and just like fading slowly every day, you won't notice until it's been overdue. And at 10 days, most people would crack

and either get injured or sick or just tired in bed. So it's definitely a real thing to see how much you're eating and try to compensate. Sure. One of the things I noticed watching you guys race the other day was just how frequently you would look at your watch, right? And I was like, what are,

I wanna know what the data fields are on your whatever, I don't know if it's a Garmin or whatever watch you were wearing. Like, are you just looking at heart rate, pace, you know, on the bike, watts? Is this also a reflection of your continuous glucose monitor? Like what were the data points that you were most interested in staying on top of? Is this also a reflection of your continuous glucose monitor? Like what were the data points

that you were most interested in staying on top of? For the run for me, it's a comfort thing, I think. So I feel like I was running slower and slower. So to just have the number of the pace that I was actually running my prescribed pace, that was, so it's not OCD but it's a comfort thing to get confirmation

okay you're on track you're on track you're on track and what else are you supposed to do out there it's

you entertain yourself with looking at the distance it's just increasing towards the marathon yeah so I looked also at the time just counting down

okay now it's about 20 more minutes and I can do this so just pace distance the basics yeah mostly for me in run it's basically 20 more minutes and i can do this so just pace distance the most for me and run it's basically only pace yeah and what about you i have heart rate total time for the run

pace and distance so using those four and just yeah entertaining myself and making sure that the heart rate doesn't spike right like if you suddenly have a crazy spike and it's super hot out, you can't come back from that, which kind of gets into core body temp stuff, which obviously is hugely important. Once you kind of tip over a certain core body temp, you're in big trouble, right? So talk a little bit about the work

that you guys have put into maintaining a lower core body temp throughout the day in hot locations. big trouble, right? So talk a little bit about the work that you guys have put into maintaining a lower core body temp throughout the day in hot locations. Yeah, so it's not trying to maintain as low core body temp as possible. Or just trying to not let it- It's more to tolerate the body temperature. But I was looking at my watch on the bike

and I was surprised actually how low it was. I guess it was lower temperature that day as well. But in training, I've been pushing way above 39 degrees at the warmest days. So how are you measuring core body temp? Like you have something inside you that's syncing up with your watch telling you where your core body temp is?

Or is this secret proprietary? No, before we had to put the pill inside and the normal way to do it was to swallow it. But the issue there is you don't know exactly where the temperature pill is. And also if you drink cold water, you would affect the measurements. So to be more precise, we had to put it in the other end. And that became a bit of a yeah it became a bit of a hassle after some time because

we have to use single use pills obviously and just downloading the data, no live feed or anything so we got in contact with a Swiss company that's called Core and it's a device you put on the heart rate monitor instead So we got in contact with a Swiss company that's called Core,

and it's a device you put on the heart rate monitor instead. And we have been helping them develop their algorithms. So that's interesting. So you are getting a live feedback on your watch. You know what your core body temp is, and you also know the specific point at which if you tip over it, you're gonna be in trouble, right? But with that knowledge, how does that translate into like gauging your effort?

It's a little bit same with the heart rate. Like if it's constantly increasing, then you know that you are in a bad pattern or bad way. So you just want to keep it like steady and if you're increasing the pace it's okay if it's the core temperature is increasing too. But if you're suddenly riding at the same power and you're just gradually going higher and higher then you know that you will soon hit the wall. So it's more you're looking at the numbers combined together and not just one single number. And what's really interesting that I learned from using the core is that you don't feel

warm when you're warm, you feel warm when the temperature is increasing. So you can go from 37 to 38 and feel really warm at 38 because the temperature is rising so rapidly. But you can go also from 39.5 down to 39.3 and feel freezing because the temperature is going down. So with that knowledge on the run, you can look at the watch and see, okay, are you actually warm now or just slight increase in temperature feeling warm? So you can be more, yeah, have more data points than trusting the feeling because temperature is a really strange thing. You can, like this water is almost room temperature,

but it feels cold because the energy transfer is higher, but the air doesn't feel cold at all. Right. So it's, temperature is really, really hard to get like a feeling of from the human body. That's super interesting. Yeah, not intuitive then. Yeah.

At all. So to have the core monitor on just like at the side of the body instead of using the pills every day it's a good thing for us. Right. At some point in the race, like all of this stuff is instructive and informative when you're out

on the race course and you're, you know, four hours into an eight hour day or whatever it is. But at some point, you know, the rubber meets the road and you're racing, right? You have to adapt, you gotta react to, you know, what's happening out on the course and kind of just say, fuck it, right? Like when you're in the hole, Christian,

and you're like, all right, Gustav's making a move, like all that shit goes out the window, right? Cause you gotta bust it. So how do you make those decisions or, you know, kind of balance all of the data with like, I'm an athlete in the middle of a race trying to win. I think you need to, so you have your numbers

like in your data bank, but then you're on the race course, you have your kind of your upper limit numbers that you know that you can do, but just for a short period of time. So for example, on the bike, it's not like you're just going out at your steady arm and power. Like when someone is surging,

then you try to follow and you're looking around and seeing how they feel is responding and then hoping that the pace will slow down later on. And so sometimes the bike can be like 30 watts higher, but then you hope that it's the same consequences for everyone and everyone that will have to do it and then run slower. Right.

Yeah, so you constantly have to evaluate. And I think having the data points in our training really gives us more information. So, but with more information, you also have to do even more choices because yeah, you know the consequences of everything. So I could ride 400 watts for a shorter period of time. But-

You know what's on the other side of that. Yeah, I know what's on the other side. And then how much energy you use. You got this bank, right? And you know you can make certain withdrawals, but if you make too many, you know, oh, that extra withdrawal, if I do that, this is going to happen. So you just have to take calculated risks and know the consequences of those decisions.

Yeah, and you just have to hope you have a bigger bank. Even like up to halfway through on the bike course. I had a huge surge. Like 370 watts for like 10 minutes in the middle of the race, just to bridge up to the guys, three guys up front. It was just before Sam Laylow was breaking away and I had Gustav on my wheel.

I had to catch up to you before that as well. 12 years behind. I had like 30 minutes there with way above race pace. And then I thought, okay, this is hurting so badly. It's above threshold. And I just hope that this will hurt Gustav more than me. And if I can make it up to the guys up front without him, then I can get an easier travel back to Kona.

Right. And then maybe have four minutes on him. So much for working together. You were trying to put distance on him all the way back then. Yeah, and I saw this and was like, this is the move. I was like, this is like, yeah, so. None of the commentators said anything about that.

No, I think it's hard to see from the outside, but I just saw Christian in front and I knew that if he caught up with the front group and I didn't catch up with him, that I would have a really, really hard time getting back because I was alone at that time. We had just broken away from our group. And yeah, I just saw that this was like,

yeah, if I don't make this, the race is over. It's done. Yeah. So I really had to go way above race pace to make it happen. But you know you got that downhill after the turnaround. Yeah, but the downhill is still hard. Yeah. Even though you're not drafting downhill,

when you have that many athletes and a motorcycle, it's a huge boost being behind, but you still have to work for it. For sure. There was a lot of speculation about what was going on inside your jersey on the bike. Like, what did you have stuffed in there? Like, everyone's like, what is that?

Is he trying to cool his core body temp? Did you just bottles in there it was a bit random actually so uh we tried it in a wind tunnel earlier this year and it's basically no aero penalty it's slightly faster in crosswind but it's not no really any difference but the thing is uh i had a bottle in transition one and usually we have this box in transition with our bikes where you can throw away your things and I yeah I just didn't think it through so when I came to the bike I went to like throw away the bottle but was nothing there because Ironman transitions is they're different than the normal ones and I knew if I just throw away the bottle then I would get a penalty so first I had it in my pocket in a rear

but it almost fell out so then I thought hmm, maybe I should just put it in my jersey and make like a story out of it and people will repeat it in the future for like aero gains but it's yeah, it was not really about the gains it was not getting a penalty. Interesting, yeah

it was like is this shape in here making it more aerodynamic? He's trying to look more like me. Yeah, the was like, is this shape in here making it more aerodynamic? He's trying to look more like me. Yeah, the barrel chest. Inspiration. The barrel chest. Well, the aerodynamic stuff is super interesting too. I mean, most people are familiar with cyclists

going into the wind tunnel or time trial is trying to really dial in that aerodynamic position. But once again, you guys have gone next level. You did all this testing on a track with, what's it called, like body rocket? Body rocket, yeah. So what was going on there that, you know, elevated your understanding of being optimally aerodynamic?

So currently, also we spent a lot of days in the wind tunnel this winter, just to be able to dial in the position of the bike. But the problem there is that the feeling you have in the winter now isn't necessarily the way of riding outside. And especially me when I'm riding, I'm changing position quite a lot

and been moving the saddle a couple of centimeters back and forth. During the ride? No, no, no. Or just experimenting. Experimenting over like a the ride? No, no, no. Like experimenting. Experimenting over like a training camp. Yeah, Christian is insane. So like, he can go one session and then,

no, I don't have any power. Let's go up with a saddle four centimeters. It's not even millimeters. It's like, okay, I'm gonna raise my saddle so much right now. Or I think I need to go down and I go down and no, i have to go up so uh it's more like moving around uh it's been tricky to find the body position no um position on

the bike um the body rocket is like trying to bring what you do in the wind tunnel out in the field so it has like sensors underneath your air bars like a small sensor there, and also underneath your saddle and in your pedals. So by this way, you are separating your body from the bike. So when you're out riding, you can measure all the wind that's coming to your body, and you can measure where on the bike that you are getting the forces. So if you can see that you're not really aerodynamic

in your front of your, like with your arms, or if it's your lower back or where the CDA numbers is increasing. That's some formula one shit. That's like next level. But the vectors that you gotta factor in are not just aerodynamics, but comfort. You're gonna be on the bike for four plus hours

and power, right? Power transfer. So any, you know, it's like, yeah, you can get super aerodynamic, but if that's not translating into Watts, or if you're so uncomfortable that you're gonna cramp, or you're just not gonna be able to sustain it, that's not gonna work either.

Yes, you need to have a good balance between the hamstring use and the quad use as well. Because of you do have to go out and run the marathon after it. So it's not just about getting as fast as possible on the bike. Right. And your positions are very different.

What's interesting, Christian, like also your bikes are different. You have a very unique bike, Christian. I don't know what's going on with that bike. And kind of a weird, odd position. Like you're much more upright and your arms are like up high as well. So how did you arrive upon that?

I feel I haven't arrived yet to necessarily where I want to be. It's been like a long process of getting there. But yeah, it's just the fact that I want to keep my power high and not just because if I go too low and I feel my stomach and chest goes into the knees and then I'm losing power so it's more being able to still think about the run after the bike while Gustav is maybe more flexible and yeah and I feel like I'm a natural cyclist and my bike position is quite similar

to that of like time trial specialist in the Tour de France. So I have more like a traditional bike position. Yeah, yeah. And that's just through rigorous testing, you've figured this out. Yeah, and also comfort. Yeah, and what feel natural we've been to the i've been to the winter myself as well and we did just minor changes was basically

no changes because uh for me i knew that my position was quite fast based on power numbers and the analysis we've done before so we just had like slight increase in angle of the arms and yeah, small optimization. How are you guys feeling about the fact that Frodeno didn't race? Is he on your mind? Is the mano y mano against Jan looming in the future? And how are you thinking about that rivalry?

Of course, I have both the Hawaii race still to win and I've never raced against Jan. So we will see what's happening in the future. You only have one- It's very politically correct answer. I think he- Come on, man. You're not afraid to trash talk a little bit. He only have one more year, I think.

So one more Kona, we will see. He's an old man. See're not afraid to trash talk a little bit. He only has one more year, I think. So one more Kona. He's an old man. We will see what's happening next year. But it's three weeks between the grand final and Hawaii next year. So it's going to be a quick turnaround. Gustav? I don't feel like I'm driven the same way with rivalry as Christian. Yeah, I want to win and I want to beat the best,

but I don't have this particular guise that I want to beat. I just want to beat everyone. I don't have the need to beat Jan to feel better about myself. But I feel it would be cool to race against him. He's been the best in the sport since 2008, and been over a decade on top of the sport and really changed long distance triathlon. So just to take that opportunity to race him,

I think is something. Yeah, I had the opportunity in California last year, but then we had this insane storm coming in for the Ironman and the race got canceled in race morning. So yeah, we went on the same start in for Ironman and the race was canceled and race morning. So yeah, we went on the same start line, but never got the race. Right.

So Jan was the first to become an Olympic gold medalist and then win at Kona, but it took him seven years to do it and two Konas. I think I have that correct. You guys, Christian, you won the Olympic gold and then won St. George, which is technically the world championship, but with this asterisk because it wasn't Kona

and Kona has this mystique and all of that. So yes, there's still a little unfinished business there for you and he is the goat, but he's getting up there in years. I would love to see that race and I hope that it transpires. We'd all like to see that, I think. But it leaves me wondering about, you know,

other heroes that you might have. Like, do you look at other sports and who are the people that you look to for inspiration? Or maybe you don't, maybe you're just like, I'm good, man, I'm the champ. I don't think that we're, it's not that we don't have too many idols in our sport, but I think we just find inspiration in the work we do and the conversation we have in the team.

I know, yeah, me and Christian, we don't have any... You don't have posters on your wall of this guy or that guy. So it's... Yeah, I don't know why, but I don't have like any huge sporting heroes. Well, when I started like seeing like short distance triathlon on TV like 10 years ago, that was the era of Javier Gomez and Alistair and Johnny

and how they were changing the sport. So I guess I was back then looking up to like how they were dominating the race and really racing attacking from the start and just like being in the front seat. And I think that has maybe been more my inspiration in triathlon more than long distance really, because we've always had like the dream towards the Olympics

rather than Ironman actually. So it's more like the short distance athletes that has been my inspiration. No like heroes in football. The Bergen team's terrible though, right? Yeah, we don't talk about them. I was reading- I grew up as a cyclist,

so obviously it was a huge inspiration. Right, the sprinter. Yeah. I was reading Brad Culp's article, the Red Bull article that he went and visited you, Christian, in Bergen, and was talking about this confidence that people from Bergen. And was talking about this confidence that people from Bergen have

that is different from the typical kind of Norwegian humility. And I feel like you guys both have that, like you're humble and you're grounded, but you also have this quiet confidence about you. We have this saying that we are not from Norway, we're from Bergen. So I think it's like that self-belief and inner self from Bergen.

Yeah. Can we talk about the sub seven thing for a couple minutes? Yes, do you wanna? I'm gonna head out. Just for a minute. I don't wanna spend too much time on it, but it's super fascinating for people that don't know,

much like that sub two project where Kipchoge tried to break two hours in the marathon. Similarly, there was a project whereby you would be able through aid to try to eclipse the seven hour barrier in the Ironman. You did that, would you go like 644 or something like that? Yeah. Something like that.

Yeah, 644. Where you were getting pulled by, you know, a Peloton of cyclists and paced on the run and all kinds of stuff. It feels like a stunt and I know that wasn't, this was not like a focus of your program by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel like it's something that gets people

who aren't necessarily fans of triathlon excited about triathlon, because it's something we can all kind of wrap our heads around. So I'm wondering, are you gonna take another stab at that? Because I think there's a lot, I think 630 is well within range with the right team and support.

Yeah, it was a really fun project to be a part of. Like we had 10 guys we could use however we wanted like across swim, bike and run and we ended up with one on the swim eight on the bike and one on the run

and it ended up being more actually a race between my team and Joe Skipper's team and just making the cut under seven hours right

so it was a really cool project, both for training for myself to get physically fit enough to do it, but also like the whole build up with the team and organizing with the Pacers and the whole almost like team feeling of going into it.

Right, so many people come into play to really pull that off. It's like a ballet almost of coming in and out. Both for Ola and Adam and Matt Portrillo had like a lot of tough weeks of getting it organized and getting the team trained together and dialed in. And it's nice to look back and see that we actually did beat other guys and also got sub seven.

So great experience. But any plans to do it again? Not in the first few years. Like the schedule now for going into Paris is so busy. Like the turnaround now to go back to short distance is maybe more or higher prioritized than trying to do something similar. Having spent all this time at all these races,

you just got back from Kona. You're, you know, one of the unique things about triathlon is that you race with the amateurs. Like you go to these huge races, but there's, you know, most of the people there are average Joes and Janes. What are the colossal fails and tragic mistakes that you see amateurs making? Like where you're just like, you're out training,

you know, a couple of days before the race and you see people out there and you go back to your condo and you're like, can you believe that guy? What is he, what are these people doing? I think what's unique about triathlon is that everyone has so much knowledge about training and they are really, yeah, they have a lot of knowledge,

but it just comes down to execution and just quality of training, I think. So they might know like all the values for their LT altitude and those things but yeah still they don't train as much I guess and not training enough I don't know it depends like if you have a normal job so that's sort of out of their hands but I'm thinking of like simple things that you see people doing where they're like,

that guy's got it all wrong. Or like seriously dude. Yeah, like out there doing intervals, like two days before the race or whatever. A lot of people just, they have a really good plan on a bike for a training session before. And then they see me and Christian riding past

and their plan goes out the window. And they just have to follow, follow, follow, put out their phone, ride past us, and take a selfie and then let down. I don't think that's the smartest move, but I think most triathletes are training good, and it's hard to pinpoint exactly what they're doing wrong, because I think most people are doing quite the right things for me.

You definitely had media training. No, but honestly, triathletes are, they are... In the forefront in terms of equipment and science. Triathlon's always been at the cutting edge of science because they're tinkerers and they're willing to try new things that perhaps professional cyclists

or professional runners won't. And I think that's cool and unique about the sport. But I am interested in perhaps you guys conveying a little bit of wisdom about what you've learned over the many years that would be applicable to the average endurance athlete or endurance enthusiast, perhaps somebody who's out there

kind of playing their first marathon or their first Olympic triathlon, like where should their focus be placed and what types of things should they not worry about that maybe they spend too much time thinking about? One of the things sometimes is fun is to see how you can have amateurs being more professional in terms of recovery than what we are.

Like you do all the massage, you do the recovery booth, ice bath. But I think the most important thing of our factory is nutrition and enough sleep. So if they can just kind of throw out those hours they're using on their typical recovery thing and just getting more calories in and sleeping enough. I think that's really gonna be beneficial.

Yeah, but then you don't get to buy the cool stuff. A lot of it is about the blingy stuff in triathlon too, I think. But then they can invest it in equipment instead. That's one level higher bike price. So for the recovery piece, what does that look like for you guys? I mean, sleep obviously. That's one level higher bike price. So for the recovery piece, what does that look like for you guys? I mean, sleep obviously.

Do you do ice baths, sauna, Norma Tech boots, like all that kind of stuff? We do nothing. You don't do any of that? We do nutrition, sleep and training. Yeah, I was watching Lionel Sanders' blogs. And I guess he was staying at Chris Lieto's house. He's got an ice bath and they were like playing around

the ice bath and Lionel was like, I can't do it. I don't want any part of this. But we don't do that either. Especially preparing for a warm race like a corner, we wouldn't do ice bath like that. Yeah, well, it's interesting. And maybe this is a question for Olaf, but so many of those recovery modalities,

I often wonder, are they robbing the athlete of the adaptation to exercise induced stress that you're looking for? Like you want your body to have a response to the strain that you just put it through. And if you do too much recovery stuff, are you undermining like what you're actually trying to achieve?

Yeah, we've seen that with antioxidants in altitude. Right. So people take antioxidants because they don't want to get the body inflamed and yeah, health benefits. And it's good up to a certain amount, but if you do too much, you actually, yeah, as you just mentioned,

you don't get all the benefits because you need some kind of inflammation or else you won't build back stronger. But I don't think doing 50 minutes of massage is having any effect. If it's a comfort thing, it's a comfort thing. You can do it. But for me, I would never spend time to go out of bed to meet someone and have a massage.

For me, it's better to just relax and watch YouTube or listen to a podcast or something. So just relax when I can and do that well. Yeah, interesting. Same for you. Yes, we have the same program there. Yeah. What do you guys, what do you do in your limited free time?

I know Christian likes to watch Dexter. Yeah, he likes watch, you watch Dexter, right? The psycho killer, he's your hero. There's a poster of him on your wall. Yeah, like up in the ceiling. It's all about obsession. Normally we squeeze in like a power nap with like, we'll just like in bed and just

recovering until the next session. So I think if you see our daily work and how we do like how we spend our days it can be very boring for a lot of people and it's very simple like a swim, bike and run and just with the

meals in between and a power nap midday. Yeah so a typical day for us in altitude is waking up at 7.30, go to the pool at like 8.15, swim for 90 minutes, go back, eat lunch, have a power nap. And a power nap for us is not the five-minute standard. It's not the 10 minutes. It's like more an hour midday just sleeping and then eat some more have a bike ride two two and a half hours three hours and then a short run

make dinner so an attitude or in front of me we make the dinner ourselves every day and then we eat then we have a conversation with olov about the training the next day and then we go to bed so So in that schedule, we don't have too much time to squeeze in more than Dexter. Maybe you can ask him afterwards if he can start like doing two by 30 minutes of massage on the Augusta. So where would you fit that in?

Well, the swan ear comes to you. Yeah, yeah. You don't have to go anywhere. As a cyclist, I would think you'd be all in on that. Yeah, but cyclists only have one session a day, you know. You don't have to go anywhere. As a cyclist, I would think you'd be all in on that. Yeah, but cyclists only have one session a day. So it's easy to fit in in the afternoon. Slackers?

Yeah, slackers. They train maybe the same amount of hours, but they have one session, five hours concentrated. It's easier to use the free time. But swimming takes a lot of time. It's always transportation and you have to change. Swimming swimming takes a lot of time it's always transportation and you have to change and swimming just takes a lot of time but cycling and running you can always start from your house basically

so yeah and also we have to figure out what we're going to train the next days a lot of logistics and for us we can say when we finish swimming okay we're going to ride at two and then we come closer to two and say no it's better to push it to one or to three so to have an extra person like uh

i must use into this whole picture to plan around it's just adding to the stress too complicated yeah so we like to have a flexible schedule and that's why we don't plan too much training with other people either. Yeah. So we just say okay we run in 10 minutes so And are you guys roommates throughout all of this? Now we are but Christian is a heavy breather during the night and my ears I actually

sore now I have like a bloody ear because. Do you share the same bedroom? Now we do. Just for four days here. No, we did in two and a half weeks in Hawaii. That's true. Yeah. No girlfriends.

No girlfriends? No, no. No, no, no girlfriends. But I have to wear my AirPods in the air to just cancel out all the noise. But it's getting a bit stressful for me. Those lungs, man. Yeah.

Too much oxygen going through. I think you guys deserve to have your own bedrooms. Yeah, we usually have. At this point, being super famous celebrities. Usually we have, but now it was a bit with logistics and the Kona in here. So it's sometimes we have to share, but it's okay for a shorter period. But now I feel like it's been a bit too long.

So it's going to be good to have my own bedroom. Final thing, and then I'll let you guys go. And I'm just curious about mindset, like how you maintain your focus on these goals and stay plugged in when the going gets tough. And I don't know, it's the middle of the winter and you're just, it's session, session, session. Like you are living a very monk-like existence

in order to achieve these insane goals that you've set for yourself. or just it's session, session, session. Like you are living a very monk-like existence in order to achieve these insane goals that you've set for yourself. How do you stay fresh with that and goal-oriented? Yeah, it's strange because I had the same goal for so many years to take the, to Tokyo Olympic gold. And then after the race i just felt like was this it well i have everything i've been working towards did i do enough and everything and after that i was a bit

kind of empty for some time because i didn't have a bad performance. I came top 10 in my first Olympics and I was like happy with my performance in itself, but I didn't reach my goal, my long-term goal for yeah, 10 years. And after a week, I was just already onto the next one and was Paris and ready to go again. And I don't do anything particular with my motivation or anything.

For me, it comes quite natural. So yeah, I don't know. No like sort of practices or mantras or techniques that you enjoy? Not really. And I don't watch any like triathlon videos to get myself motivated or like motivational speeches or anything. For me, it comes from within and it's a natural thing.

I guess a lot of- Dexter is your North star. It's just in the DNA watching you. Like I'm very motivated by races. So even though I had a very opposite experience with Tokyo, winning the goal or race that I was working towards for 10 years, basically straight after I was thinking about Hawaii. I really wanted to win Hawaii.

And back then I first had to qualify before I got the wild card. And yeah, it's just setting new targets. And if it goes wrong, like now in Hawaii when I finished third, and then watching the pictures when he's crossing the finish line first, and I just think that, okay, in 12-month time, then I do want to cross the finish line first again. So it's more... The fire's burning hot.

When it's going well, you just want to repeat it again. When it's going not that well, then it's even more like a slap in the face and okay, wake up and try to get back on track. Yeah. But it's easier to be motivated when you see Christian also motivated. And I guess it's the same for Christian for me.

So we do feed off each other in that way. Right. And we don't spread like the, or sometimes we do. Sometimes like life is hard. There must be moments you're like, I'm sick of this guy. Like I need to hang out with someone else. Yeah, but Christian is really direct in that way. He just puts on his AirPods and then silent.

And we can go training sessions, even though we train together, like we're not talking at all. And then we can have some training session. We like talking for three hours straight. So even though we are like together, we give each other like space. It's not often I put in the AirPods though.

No. But it can be a week. That's the signal, leave me alone. It can be a week straight, but it's not often I put in the AirPods though. No. But it can be a week. That's the signal, leave me alone. It can be a week straight, but it's not often. It doesn't necessarily need to be reason for it. It's just like the mood. And when you do put the AirPods in in the training, are you listening to music or what do you listen to?

It can be everything. Sometimes just noise canceling on oh wow interesting yeah but it's uh it's easier to uh to train with someone when you know like we're in this together we have the same ambitions we have to yeah and also now going into to kona we looked at each other for as the biggest competitors so we had a training session we had a lunch at the four seasons and the food was a bit too good so we ate a bit too much and then we came to the run in the afternoon and yeah we both had a bad day but since we both like our biggest competitors when I said okay I'm gonna stop it now we're gonna I'm gonna quit

the session Christian said okay then I can stop as well. But that was more as a joke though. Yeah, but still. But yeah, that was, so you went to toilet after the first interval and I went out to the rocks and had to pick up the lunch. So that's what happened

when I'm not in charge of the planning of the day. Putting on a run session straight after lunch. So you left a deposit of your own body on the lava fields there for Madame Pele to contemplate. That's good karma, must be good karma. Well, I have so much admiration and respect for both of you guys. I'm a huge fan and it was a delight watching you guys

go head to head the other day. And I can't wait to see what you guys accomplish in the years to come. So at your service and it was a delight to talk to you. So thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I love this bromance. It's good.

You guys stay together forever. At some point you're gonna need girlfriends, I love this bromance. It's good. I hope you guys stay together forever. At some point, you're going to need girlfriends, but... We're working on it. Working so hard on it. But the problem here, again, Ola with his consequences. So he pulls up like this... The voice of God.

Yeah, he pulls up this statistics that athletes with girlfriends, they perform worse than the ones without. So always with the consequences. It's up to you. Yeah, I know. But I have the choice, but you have to know that if you go through with this,

then you might... Eight months, you're done. Yeah. So yeah, playing on consequences. All right. Well, yeah, you could put that data point in maybe after Paris. Yeah, we'll see.

Okay. We'll come back and talk to me again, you guys. Super fun. Cheers. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Peace. That's it for today. Thank you for listening.

I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guests, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change in the Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify and on YouTube and leave a review and or comment.

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