The Rich Roll Podcast - How Josh LaJaunie Lost 200+ Pounds & Reinvented Himself: Thoughts On Mindset, Habits & Giving Back

Episode Date: November 12, 2018

I have never met a more inspirational everyman example of healthy, transformative living than Josh LaJaunie. After 400+ episodes of the podcast, our initial conversation way back in December of 2013��(RRP 63) remains one of my favorite and most popular episodes in the history of the show, followed closely by our second conversation in June 2015 (RRP 152). There's a reason for that. Sure, Josh lost 200+ pounds. He overcame tremendous obstacles to restore and maintain his health. He reinvented himself as athlete, crushing marathons, winning an ultra and even gracing the cover of Runner's World magazine. You might have seen Josh on The Today Show. Perhaps you caught him on Good Morning America. Certainly, Josh's personal triumphs are worthy of celebrating. But I'm emphatic it's his giant heart that captured the the media's eye. 100% genuine and utterly authentic, it's Josh's love and devotion to returning the gift in service of his friends, family, community and strangers that sets him apart — and makes me prouder than you can imagine to call him friend. Good things happen to good people who do good for others. For those new to the show, Josh's story — as laid out in his self-described manifesto — begins in marshy southern Louisiana. A self-avowed “swamp dweller” from Bayou Lafourche, he was a big kid surrounded by an even bigger loving family, united by their shared adoration of food. Despite being recruited to play college football, college life left him so disillusioned, he dropped out, returning home aimless and unmoored. He found work in the family construction business, but like so many, started living for the weekend: partying, hunting, fishing, cheering for his beloved New Orleans Saints, and feasting on his favorite local delicacies — po boys, jambalaya & barbecue. Lots of barbecue. It's just what you do down in Bayou Lafourche. It wasn't long before Josh tipped 400+ on the scale. Outwardly he seemed fine with it. But deep down he was dying — his despair, embarrassment and shame escalating in lockstep with his declining self-esteem and overall well being. Then something happened. In 2010, Josh's beloved Saints achieved the impossible, winning the Super Bowl. It seems a small thing. But to Josh it was everything. Forever altering his perception of what is possible, he began to question the limits he imposed upon himself. Empowered, he began to “let go of his normal” and dismiss the embedded “that's just the way it is down here” mentality he was starting to understand often taints the logic of his region. A chain reaction of events ensued that set Josh on a path that literally changed everything. He adopted a 100% plant-based diet. He resumed a long, slow return to fitness. He committed to a top-to-bottom mindset shift. It wasn't overnight, but today he has multiple marathons under his belt. An ultramarathon victory. And a plan to scale the principles that saved his life to save others via his Missing Chins secret Facebook group and newly-hatched WellStart wellness start-up. The best part? It's just the beginning. Picking up where we last left off, this is Josh's story. Enjoy! Rich

It's not necessarily about the food. It's about the purposeful habit change. It's about being conscious of what you're doing and doing something on purpose that's different because we want different outcomes and we understand we have the power to manifest those. So what we want to do is we want to do something. I don't care which step that is. I don't care what it is. We want to do something and let's get a result.

And let's let our results dictate the sufficiency of what it is we're doing today. There's nothing really special about me. Like results are typical if you apply the power of plants to your life and the power of bipedal locomotion and getting outside and getting some sunshine and using this human body the way it was intended to be used. And love somebody, man. I mean, it's pretty simple to be really damn happy. And so shame is such a secret. That's Josh LaGianni, and this is The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. How you guys doing? My name is Rich Roll. This is my podcast. Welcome. We're on day two of the Malibu Calabasas Ventura County apocalyptic fires that are quickly gobbling up much of my beloved community.

And I just wanted to pause for a moment, let everybody know that my family and myself are safe. We evacuated on Friday morning, but we did wake up early that day to discover that the fires were very close to our home. The power was out, the cell service was out. And if you drove one mile down the street from where I live, the scene is beyond description. A lot of you have been following this fire on the internet or on television. And despite the extraordinary images and videos that you perhaps have consumed, it doesn't compare to what it looks like up close and in person. So far, we have been lucky. Our house still stands. I'm broadcasting to you guys right now from my container. This morning, I drove back to the house to just check on it. It's in the midst of a mandatory

evacuation zone, but because I live here, they let me in and it's just eerily quiet. The air quality is terrible. The sky is a bright orange. And just down the street is devastation like I've never seen in my entire life. I've been on the phone with friends and community members consistently over the last day and a half. And I have some very dear friends who for sure lost their homes.

The reports that are coming in, albeit difficult to verify, it's very hard to know what's true and what's rumor. There is without question destruction on a level that this area hasn't seen in quite some time. Complete neighborhoods devastated just down the street. So many people displaced and my heart goes out to them. I'm at a loss for words. And I just wanted to express to all of you some thank yous for all of the outpouring of support. I've been on the receiving end

of hundreds and hundreds of text messages and thousands of comments on social media channels and wanted you to know that I appreciate that. I read all of them. It means more to me than you can possibly imagine. And I wanted to thank all of the first responders and the emergency workers who are working tirelessly throughout the night without any sleep

to combat this tremendous force of nature, the likes of which I've never seen, as I mentioned. It's still early. Right now, the winds have died down to almost nothing, which is a great sign. My hope is that it will give the responders, the fire department, ample opportunity to try to get the upper hand in controlling this fire. Because tomorrow, apparently, the winds are gonna pick up again for the next three days. So again, I'm healthy.

My family is safe. And if anything, this experience has helped to really crystallize what is most important in life. Everything is indeed impermanent. And that doesn't mean that the loss of things or the prospect of losing things is not a challenge. It certainly is.

I didn't sleep last night, but accepting that, surrendering to that fact, embracing this idea of impermanence, this idea that stuff is just stuff is liberating, it's freeing. What is important is your wellbeing and your relationships with those you love, your relationship with your community,

your connectivity with your neighbors. And that's something that this experience has really amplified in my own life. So with that being said, I think that's all I'm gonna say today. Other than that, I'm very grateful to have the ability to host this podcast and grateful for yet another fantastic conversation

to give to you guys today. And one of the great, beautiful benefits of doing this thing that I do is I get the opportunity to meet really amazing humans that then become good friends. And today's guest is certainly one of the more shining examples of this. It was back in 2013 when this guy I knew

nothing about called Josh Lajani tweeted me his before and after pictures, thanking me for helping him along his journey of transformation. And I get a lot of this kind of thing and I love it. It's why I do what I do, but there was really something different about this post. His change was astounding, super dramatic. And my first impulse was, I didn't think that it was real. I mean, could this really be possible? This 400 plus pound guy on the left bore almost no resemblance to the other guy,

a super fit, handsome young man running with a big smile on his face. And I was very impacted by this juxtaposition of images. And I took a flyer without any real due diligence or research and just asked him if he would come on my podcast and share his story. And that conversation, which was recorded back when I did Skype interviews, really laid bare one of the most inspirational examples of an everyday, every man transforming his life that I have ever heard.

And it remains to this day, one of my proudest moments on this show and one of the most impactful episodes to date. But the thing is, it's not just that this guy lost a ton of weight and it's not just that this guy lost a ton of weight and it's not just that he transformed himself from this hopeless food addict into this athlete. It's really that he made these huge lifestyle changes

in the middle of nowhere in rural Southern Louisiana, which is a true food desert. He did it without any real support. So his story is really about facing battling and ultimately overcoming astounding, impossibly entrenched cultural obstacles to change everything about how he lives his life. And his commitment to returning the favor in service of his friends and his family and his community is really beautiful. It's rare. it's unique. And it's as much about the facts of this transformation as it is about his attitude,

his soul, his spirit, his love, all of which are super infectious. Josh's story stuck with me from that first experience that we had together. And I know it did for many of you. And I knew that I found someone that would many of you. And I knew that I found someone that would become a friend. And I knew I found someone that was at the very beginning of a journey that held the potential to help transform the lives of countless people in the years to come.

And all of these things have come to pass. Josh and I have become very close. When we did our first podcast, this guy hadn't even run a marathon yet. And now he's run many marathons. He's run ultras. He even won an ultra marathon. And even crazier, he graced the cover of Runner's World Magazine. But the more important run is the torch that he now carries in service of other people. And those are efforts he's going to tell you about today, efforts that have landed him on both Good Morning America and the Today Show and many other major media outlets. This guy's come a long way.

He's a shining example of what can be accomplished when self-care meets selfless service. And I'm super proud of him. And our conversation is coming up in a minute, but first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their

loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem, Thank you. to support and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself,

I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. really do, and they have treatment options for you. Life and recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Okay, today marks Josh's third appearance on the podcast and it doesn't disappoint. If you're new to the show, I implore you, either right now or after listening to this,

to go deep into the archives and check out our initial chat. It's a little rough because it's on Skype. It's way back in the early days, episode 63. And then follow it up with episode 152 from June of 2015. To make it easy, you can find links to those episodes in the show notes. And I think that's all I'm gonna say about this one. Other than that, I truly love this man.

He is indeed my little brother from another mother. Final note, this episode, as are almost all my episodes these days, is viewable on YouTube at youtube.com forward slash Rich Roll. And again, the podcast is now available on Spotify. Final, final note. Again, just wanna thank everybody for all the outpouring of love and support

as my family and my community weathers this incredibly dramatic, destructive fire that we find the midst of ourselves in at the moment. I really appreciate it. So keep sending those thoughts and those prayers out to my community. And with that being said, please enjoy my conversation with Josh Ligani.

What is this, the third time that we've done this? Yeah, third time. Third time, right? Yeah, only three. Last time was a couple years ago in a little motel off the freeway in Marshall, Texas, right? Yeah, huge, huge town in Marshall, Texas. It's been quite a road you've been blazing, my friend. Yeah, I don't know.

It doesn't feel like I'm blazing. It just feels like it's happening and I'm along for the ride and I'm okay with it. Cause I don't feel like I'm in control most of the time. It's a surrender, man. You're letting go. You know what I mean? And you're being guided, I think.

Yeah, I think so too. Well, it's been a while since you've been on the show. The hard cores, the long time listeners know your story well, but the show's grown quite a bit. Yeah. So I think it would be helpful to just recap your story a little bit. I don't wanna dwell on it because we've gone into it

so much in other episodes, but for the people that are new, let's like take a look back for a minute. Yeah. Well, look back as a kid on the bayou in South Louisiana, living the dream of hunting and fishing almost every weekend with all the people you love and frying everything and drinking beer and telling jokes and making friends and connections, but also getting really heavy. And mixed with that, I had an identity of being a football player. So I really felt right being a big guy. And just those things mixed together and that lifestyle and that culture and in that identity, by the time I was 32 or so,

I found myself about 420 pounds. Right, how old were you then? About 32. 32, yeah. And talk to me a little bit more about the culture. The culture fascinates me. Some of the best people you ever meet in your life. And it's good to some of the best people you ever meet in your life. And what we do is, it's almost like this, this is a fancy phrase.

It's not my phrase, it's Howard's phrase, but it's a toxic imitation of respecting our ancestry. Because what they really were doing with the foods that we really sort of overeat today, those things were founded in times of scarcity as like a survival tool. You know, how to eat every single piece of the pig in a boucherie or whatever, or get crawfish out of the swamp. culture, what we do today is we sort of overindulge in those things that were really just helping us get through times of scarcity. And the bulk of those old Cajun meals were a lot of like vegetables, you know, backyard garden vegetables and things like that. But we kind of have gotten off of the rails and are just sort of wallowing in this toxic imitation of honoring our ancestry by killing ourselves with these survival techniques they use to make it through times of real difficult scarcity. Well, I would suggest it's even more complicated than that

because it's so intertwined with, I mean, those traditions are so intertwined with family and love. It's very emotional. And so they symbolize more than just fill in the belly. Right? This is about honoring these traditions that have been going on for generations and generations.

Where you come from to break ranks with that is more than just, hey, I wanna slim down. It's a rejection of a lifestyle, a way of life. It's a slap in the face to my mom. It's a slap in the face to your uncle so-and-so who fries the best fish or fries the best gratins. What you mean you don't want none? And like get literally pissed off at you. Yeah.

So that's difficult. So growing up playing football, hunting, fishing, drinking. Drinking for 420 pounds. When the football went away, it really bloomed. What were you when you were at your fighting weight playing ball? Playing ball, I was like 290 to 330 in that range. You still had a hundred to go.

Yeah. I got it done though. Yeah. And tell me done though. Yeah. And tell me a little bit about what it's like to carry that kind of weight around. It's a job, man. It's a full-time job. I didn't, I don't, you know,

you don't think about it at a time that, that whole, you know, boil frog kind of a thing. You don't realize it because it happens so slowly, but it's just tiring. Your feet are always hurting. Your ankles are always hurting. You're always just trying to, you're on your feet, but you are immediately need to get to another place

to sit down. That's a lot of work. The funny things like in the first conversation we had about being on an airplane and needing an extension or them moving me to the front of the plane, that stuff is embarrassing. But not only that, just the physical pain and then the physical things that think about

just the way I think about this, cause I'm dealing with my back over the past year. So the way my spine would have to contort when I have this big giant belly and I'm bending over to tie my shoes or put on my socks and how that mashes against my lumbar spine. I spend so much time thinking about

what I've done to my body, but regardless of what I've done to it, today feels a hell of a lot different than it felt back then being mashed down to the earth with an extra 200 pounds on my body. I can't imagine. I throw on a 20 pound weighted vest right now to go do some training hikes.

And I can't imagine having 200 pounds. A 200 pound weight vest. I'm not going far, I can tell you. Yeah. And what about emotionally? It's like night and day in my life, honestly. I got bitter, I was angry a lot, sort of mad at myself, but really projecting that anger in situations on other people like oh no wonder things are nice look at all what is wrong and um you know now i still have a lot of those pressures

a lot of those stressors in my life that stuff going on but but I feel lighter, not only physically, but inside of my mind, inside my heart. And I handle those things in a completely different way. I cry a lot more than, you know, like, You cry all the time. But I'm okay with it. Like my Bam Bam cried a lot. He was a tough bastard.

So, but it's okay to wear your heart on your sleeve, you know, and that has helped like it's cleansing. And that has helped me, I think, release a lot of physical weight as well, really sort of adopting that mindset. And listening to my first Rich Roll podcast is where I started to turn the rudder in that direction, that you were where I was learning these things. Right. Yeah, you first, I mean, I've told this story a million times, but for people that are new,

you first came across my radar when you tweeted, you tagged me in a tweet that had a before and an after picture. And I just couldn't believe it was the same guy, this enormous 400 plus- It was me and I couldn't believe it was the same guy, this enormous, you know, 400 plus. It was me and I couldn't believe it was the same guy. And then like another picture of a guy who looked like Bradley Cooper.

And I'm like, this can't be real. I didn't even know who Bradley Cooper was. This is like early days of the podcast. I was still doing Skype interviews and that was all I knew of. And I think you had written like a manifesto on your blog. And I was touched by that. And that's all I knew about you.

And I was like, I'm gonna take a flyer and get this guy on the show. And then you came up, we did a Skype call and I just could not believe your story. And that testimony, you trusting me to kind of share your experience, touched a lot of people. And I said to you in the wake of that, you've got to find a way to share your story. Of course.

I don't know what your career situation is or what's going on down there, but I'm telling you, man, people need to hear your story. It's super powerful. So do whatever you need to do to get yourself out there. And not only have you like taken that and run with it, like it's just amazing now to look back and see, I mean, you had made so much progress up to that point, but after that, you've gone on. And I mean, at that point, I think you'd run a half marathon.

You hadn't even run a marathon yet. You've run, I don't know how many marathons, a lot of marathons. I've done, I don't know how many. You've run ultra marathons. You won an ultra marathon. And now you're sitting across from me because you were attending the Plantrition,

you know, the Plantrition Conference, the big plant-based nutrition conference that's held every year. You're getting up on stages, you're sharing your story, you're writing a book right now. It's like, it's so inspiring to see that, that see the impact that you're making, Matt. And I think it's just starting.

And well, it's just about, honestly, I learned it from you. I learned it from like, you know, that a bunch of the podcasts, I'm drawing a blank on the guy's name right now. I hate it. It's what it was. I've texted you before. It's one of my very, the champion,

the blueprint champion, remember that? Oh, Jeff Spencer. Yes, yes. And so that like things like that was like nuggets where it's like, oh, it's not about this race specifically. It's a bigger thing. It's about something greater. It's about being part, acting in a way that you sort of organically collect a team around you that helps you get something great, you know?

And I was seeing you do that. You were doing it. You were accumulating that in an organic way. And that's all I've done is like, hey, this is something I can do. This is something that feels good. I like talking to people. I like running. It's fun.

We're building a community. I'm helping friends that I know avoid heart disease, lose some weight. This is awesome. It's right in the vein of my happiness. And you just start chasing that and it grows and serendipity happens along the way and like these amazing things. But you go to a place like the Plantrition Project and it's a thousand doctors who most of them are already plant-based. But some of them maybe are there because they're plant-curious and they're looking. They just heard some science that's got them. being able to talk to a doctor about what we're doing, you know, and have that person come up to me and want to take my picture because they know me from the Rich Roll podcast is a hell

of an icebreaker. You know what I mean? That is a huge, like, validation to me that I don't know if you know that you gave me that it just, it feels good to be able to use that in a way that is helping other people, you know? Well, you are helping a lot of people. And I think when I look back on how you kind of went from that place to where you're at now, you know, I'm sure people come up to you and say like, how did you do that?

How are you in this place where you get to, you know, give talks and the like. You just showed up and said yes to the next thing. It's not like, hey, I'm gonna wipe this. There was no strategy. This is like, you know, it's not like training for a marathon where you're like, okay, here's the date and here are the workouts

I have to put in. It's more like surfing. You gotta like ride this wave. And when you're present and you're paying attention and you've done enough interior work to be able to trust your instincts, you know what the right next move is. You do that and you be open to the possibility that that will guide you or lead you to the next thing. And they're tiny little steps that seem like they mean nothing in the moment or, yeah, I'm going to go down to

the community center and talk to whatever, but you don't know what's going to come of that. You don't know who's there, who's gonna talk to somebody else that'll lead to some other thing. And I think the, and this has been my experience as well. Like people are like, how are you, like how did you go to Nantucket? How are you doing?

It's like, I just showed up, man. I said yes a lot, you know. That's it. I opened my heart and tried to serve. You told me that very early, yeah. And then I really feel like I've been guided. It was not a plan that I laid forth in front of me. Like this is where I wanna be.

It was about saying yes and learning how to surf that wave. And that means saying no to other stuff too. Like what's moving you forward, what's not. But you've done that in such a beautiful way. But I think of all the things that you've done or that you're involved with, it's really cool to look,

the weight loss story is like the way in because that's so dramatic. And obviously that's what everyone wants to know about with you. And then you look at the races that you've done, ultra marathons, like all this crazy stuff is super inspiring. But to me, the most inspiring thing that you do

is how you give back to your community and the love that you have for your neighborhood, essentially. And I think that is what is most needed and lacking right now, not just in the health and fitness, nutrition, plant-based movement, but in society at large.

Like we need, that was a big theme of the Nantucket project this past weekend, like neighborhoods, community, how can we learn to better and more effectively communicate with our fellows? And that's something that you're succeeding at in the way that you're serving people back home. So can you talk a little bit about that? I just want to have a conversation with people at home.

That's my audience. That's who I talk to. That's where I'm facing everything I ever post on social media because they're closest to my heart. They're closest to me geographically. I've been, people that don't even know their name, maybe I've seen them five times in my life, but I've seen that person five times in my life at Walmart cause we're both from Thibodeau. And so that matters.

That's where you speak the language. That's where you can have the most impact. And these are the people that not only need it the most, but are, you know, the people that are sort of forgotten. Yeah, absolutely. I could go do some talk in Brentwood. Yeah, they're not gonna. But it's like, they're already hip to it or whatever.

I'm in my silo. Yeah, people in my trailer park are not about to go to plant stock. They're not going to the veg fest. So you're able to communicate with these people in a way that almost nobody else can. And so what is that? Like, how do you do that?

And what is that about? I just use the same language that I would talk about deer hunting or fishing or anything else with, but we just have that same rapport over this stuff I've learned about food and this stuff I've learned about running. And hey, you should try it a little bit. And luckily our local hospital has built

this giant wellness center in Thibodaux. So it's kind of like the end thing to do to be active. So I have conversations in the locker room. How did that become the end thing to do? Because they spent $70 million on a gigantic wellness center that is the La-Di-Da now in Thibodeau, man. That's where everybody wants to go hang out there. Everybody's there, yeah. Most of them are just sitting around, Everybody's there, yeah. Most of them are just sitting around, you know, shooting the shit, hanging out, talking at the bench, you know, not really doing a whole lot, not breaking a whole lot of sweat. But they're there and it's alive in the, you know, in the community. Like there's at least a movement towards let's moving some.

Now they still serve crazy stuff in the cafe and all but i get to talk about that to them through my social media you know without necessarily directly railing against people and try i don't i try not to make myself you know unwanted but it's difficult sometimes yeah um and exactly crafting like how to talk to the people on the body about a plant-based diet and about disease reversal without them listening to me is like, I'm just the trailer park guy from Chag Bay. Why should I listen to you? My cardiologist says, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm going to go with him. Right.

But being able to come and let the people that are back home see me do what I'm doing right now, see me go to see me on social media, go to other places and go, oh, yeah, he might just be from Chag Bay, but people all over want to hear from him. So maybe even though he sounds like us, he walks like us, he talks like us. Maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about just because he's from Chag Bay. Maybe, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean he's talking about just because he's from Jagway. Maybe, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean he's a total dumbass. But what if someone doesn't know you from social media? Like what's the opener? Like you go into a group of people,

maybe it's a community gathering. You got people that are obese or, you know, have diabetes, type two diabetes. They're, you know, spent their entire life eating poor boys and doing what you do and fishing and hunting, coming from a completely different perspective from the kind of kale chomping vegan that lives on the west side of Los Angeles.

Sure, I just tell them, if you think about our grandparents, if you think it's a lot of garden vegetables, that's a big part of being a Cajun is having a garden and having those garden vegetables like on the regular, like a lot of it. Let's steer towards potatoes. I'm not asking you to stop being a hunter. I'm not asking you to stop fishing. I'm asking you to pay attention for just a second about something that I learned about these heart attacks that we go to funerals for all the time. And there's a, now, whether or not you want to do anything about it, once you learn this, that's on you, pimp. You do you. But for right now, let me show you this. And here's how we can get it done. And you can still have your cake and eat it too. You can still go fishing if you want. You still go hunting if you want, but let's do,

let's get rid of dairy. Let's get rid. So to understand where my friends are at the moment and be willing to talk to them from that place without trying to shatter their whole world, from that place without trying to shatter their whole world, right? And have a conversation about their health and about what that means to their family pod that means a lot to them, you know? So that's where we have the conversation. That's where I have the conversations with the guys about how to get traction or how to even get desire to have traction in this behavior change. Yeah, it's one thing if you're staring down the barrel of like a crazy health crisis, like your doctor is telling you,

you're gonna have a heart attack any day now, or you're gonna get your foot amputated or something like that. Like that will inspire and motivate somebody to make a change. But what if you're just, you know, you're walking around with 50 extra pounds on you and you don't look any different than anyone else

and you feel okay. Well, you probably- Like how do you get through to somebody like that? Who's like, yeah, I hear what you're saying. Like what you've done is inspiring. Like I should probably eat better or do something different. But like, how do I even begin to do that? Well, that's the thing.

That's where for me, that's the health part of it is because it doesn't matter. I know there are people that are completely slim that have six pack abs that drop dead of heart attacks because there's ways to physically manipulate the amount of adipose tissue you have on your body that does not necessarily translate to healthy endothelial. And that is like from just a dude that went to Chag Bay Elementary. I just read a couple of books and

listened to Dr. Esselstyn on a documentary. You don't have to become a scientist to understand that and see that. So you can be only 50 pounds overweight. You can be proud of me for having lost 230 pounds. You can feel like you don't really need to do anything because you're not 230 pounds overweight. However, if you're eating the standard American diet, you are going to be on the road to at least being on the bevy of cardiac medications that you go in for the first thing and you get on all of those things. The first cardiac thing, you get on all of those meds. You're at least going to have that. If not, what is it, 25% of the time the first sign of cardiovascular disease is a sudden death? Right. That's a big number

to me. I don't want to play that game, especially since I know that my family, especially all the men in my family seem to die of heart attacks. So I'm going to do it different. And I'm armed with some information they were not armed with. Seems irresponsible of me to like, if me and Bam Bam, if I was following him in a boat and he ran across a sandbar and he hit the sandbar and then I followed him right into the sandbar and hit the same damn sandbar, bro, I'd be in trouble, you know? Pay attention. And that's all, that's what I would tell that person. It ain't about your belly. I don't care if you lose the 50 pounds or not. You do you.

But this is about something bigger. This is about why we lead the nation in heart disease. This is about why we lead the nation in obesity and diabetes and all these things. One of the things that is pretty remarkable about what you've done is that you did it in this community really without any support, at least not any support in terms of boots on the ground. Sure. No Whole Foods nearby,

no immersion program down the street. Something inside of you just clicked and you made it happen essentially on your own. And I think that's probably a big part of what compels you to try to create, you know, programs in your area so that the next person doesn't have to do it alone. But one of the biggest things that you hear about the plant-based lifestyle is,

you know, I can't afford that food. You know, like I'm on a budget here. That's great for you, but it's not gonna work for me. So as somebody who lives in an area where most people do their shopping at Walmart, like what do you say to those folks? You're doing it wrong. You're doing it wrong.

If it's expensive, you're buying the wrong shit at the store, sorry. That's what you need to adjust what you're buying. Stay in the produce department. You need to buy rice, you need to buy beans, you need to buy potatoes, you need to get the, you know, that's the bulk of our food. It is expensive to buy processed stuff.

It is expensive to buy pre-made meals. It is expensive. I agree with you on that. But that's not where we should be eating. We should be eating these things that we can buy 10 pounds of it at a time and we'll be fine. It's traditionally pauper food. Right. It is exactly what it is.

And I love the quote that I heard from Dr. Esselstyn in one of his talks one time is there's a certain dignity in simplicity. And when you stay in the produce department and you walk out with, you know, a 10 pound bag of potatoes, some bell peppers, a few, you know, a few onions, a couple of avocados and a bag of kale and some, maybe a thing full of almonds or some walnuts, like I'm ready to go home and, you know, make some food. That's all you need. That's it. And that's not expensive, you know? So that's what I tell people all the time when it's like, oh man, it's just so expensive.

And then no, you're really doing it wrong if it is expensive, cause the bulk of your calories should be coming from like really cheap food, really, really cheap food. You're coming off an injury, right? Oh yes. So you've had a rough year. Very man, yeah.

So what was the last race that you did? Liverpool in May of 2017. That was like, I've done races since then, but that was the last one, like I was trained for and raced it. I've done a 50K since then at Mount Chiha. And I think it was February in this year, but I was injured doing it.

And I was like, ah, I'm just gonna get in before the cutoff, I'll be fine. Just take all day to do it. So what happened? Like what's the injury? And you've been on kind of a long road back. Yeah, man, it's something that's been there since football. Like I've always had this,

it's the reason that I stopped playing ball in the first place and got really fat was I had this disc between the L4 and L5 in my back that's severe protrusion. We know now, cause I've had an MRI done since like in the past six months or so. And there's a severe protrusion and some canal stenosis there and so that's there that's that's the thing right and not only that had i made it worse from years of you know playing

football and being morbidly obese for decades afterwards that uh afterwards but then my hobby that i pick up once i lose the weight and everything is ultra marathon and not only ultra marathon but running really fast too on top of that and um i really after my 100 mile race would i've spent so much time thinking about how i hurt myself right but after my 100 mile race i got into training for Liverpool because Runners World was sending me to Liverpool after the thing. And so I wanted to do that Boston training. I knew it was going to take me a long time to get faster. Yeah.

So I wanted to hurry up and start running. And I started training probably three weeks after my 100-miler for Boston. Not enough time. And it just got worse and worse and the closer i got to the race the more i was ignoring my back pain and bj knew she was like but she knew what i was doing she knew that i was just trying to make it through liverpool you know but it was rough and i'm and i was like i can i can grit it out i know i'm good shape. I've been working really hard and man, between the plane ride,

cause we flew over there on Thursday, late Thursday, I raced on Sunday and I flew home Monday from Liverpool. And so what happened? I mean, now since then, like your back's seized up on you, you can't. I was like crippled, man, for months. Just couldn't, my back was on fire. I couldn't sleep.

So I wasn't healing. It was just one. And then I was trying to get back to running. Every time I would make a little bit of progress, I was trying to hurry up and get back to running because I had hired a coach. You just never took enough time off. Yeah, so I made all of 2017 was like,

it was, I kept re-injuring myself. I know now I kept going back too early. I kept going back too early and running too fast and then getting in the hills and trying to do vert and trying to get ready for a mountain 100-miler. And so it kept knocking me back down. And at the same time, I'm still going through a bunch of emotional stuff

because I'm fighting through all of it because the pain is bad. When it hurts me, it's bad. Like it's really bad. So where are you at now? Right now, yoga has been a life changer. I've been doing yoga at least three, four times a week for a few months now. That has been monumental. I'm feeling amazing. My mileage is back up. This is about my

sixth or eighth, 35 plus mile week. I'm starting to run hard again. But yeah, I still have some pressure back there and I feel something going on, but I'm trying to live with it. What do I need to do in my power to not have surgery? What does that mean for me? Do I need to run faster? Do I need to run slower? Do I need to run shorter? What is it that I need to adjust in my life to be able to keep doing my thing without making that blow up? Because that's a difficult thing to get through, man. Yeah, it's a different kind of discipline.

I see why people give up and go get surgery. Like, I mean, not that people, not that it's giving up, but my mom, the reason I'm so averse to surgery is my mom has an 18 inch steel rod in her back from severe scoliosis. And I watched her suffer with the like after effects of back surgery her whole life. And she railed against it.

And when they want, they suggested it in football, she was like, nope, you just don't play football anymore. And so it's been, that's not an option unless it has to be. Yeah, and there's, I don't know when she had her surgery, but I'm sure there's been- I'm sure, yeah. I'm sure it's a much better, I'm sure it's much better, but I've always been like hesitant of it at all for that,

for just because I've seen it. Yeah, you always want it to be the last option. So, but it's really, it's not pretty. It's a bad, it's, you know, from everybody who's looked at it, it's like, you know, it should be operated on yesterday. And do you do any kind of Cairo like, Yes.

I have hang upside down and the decompression and all that kind of stuff. I have an amazing, I found a guy in down the body a little bit from Thibodeau, actually a high school buddy of my running friend, my really good buddy, JT that runs with me all the time. And man, it has been, he does it different. Like, so all of the, I would normally go and I just get cracked from head to toe, break all, crack all of the, I would normally go in and just get, just get cracked from head to toe,

break all, crack all my bones. And he does it different where he's like, he just finds the most out of alignment thing or the most, he calls it a primary. And he'll just do that one adjustment. And then we'll come back in 48 hours or so and see what's next. And that approach mixed with my yoga

and having a coach helped me stay calm and stop going so damn hard so early. Hey, I didn't get faster until I slowed down. So you really should slow down, chill out, man, relax. So I had someone who I trusted telling me that. So those things combined, I'm in a much better place right now. So much so I'm feeling like actually racing again. So I have some stuff on the horizon

that I'm looking forward to training for. You're smiling. Have you picked a race? Yeah, well, I have a 50K I've already signed up for, but it's in February. But I'm gonna go back to the first one I ever did that won in Dustin. I did one in Dustin on the beach. That was the one we talked about in 2015.

But me and my buddies who did that race, we're going to go back to it. Now, they've been knocking out 100-milers like crazy since then. I've only done one. And they're just smashing them. And one of them's done a tour of duty since then. And like, oh yeah, people are like, oh man, I can't believe you run ultras. I'm like, man, I am the weakest ultra runner

of all of my friends. Who would have thought that? Yeah, it's like, I have nothing. The guy like led the charge. Well, I'm glad to hear about the Cairo working. You know, people give Cairo shit, but like it's done a lot for me. It's been super beneficial.

I have some lower back pain stuff. I have spondy and some curved spine. So I have to stay on top of that. And one of the things that my guy had me start doing, which I definitely need to do more consistently than I do, is something called the foundation series. You've heard about this? No.

You can look it up on YouTube. It's a 10 minute little routine that you can do every single day of like super simple, just static postures that really help with alignment. That sounds interesting because I find myself like doing things intuitively, it would be nice to maybe have some specific direction. Cause I can feel like when i'm driving i can

feel that but i can feel my pelvis getting looser and like my sacrum because i went to this guy in new york when i was on it was so crazy how the universe works this i went um to the good morning america show right i wanted to get into that with you right yeah that's so wild but anyway while i was up there howard has a friend who put me in touch with another friend who had another friend and like three friends later i'm in touch with this like body worker fellow in in um in manhattan and so i was like i was in touch with him via text message and i said i'm gonna He said, this is right on my side of the street. I see why my friends sent you here. This is right up my alley.

I can help you. And so I went to him. And he kind of showed me what my problem was. That was a big issue was I didn't really understand where the pain was coming from. I knew I had the bulging disc, that's i had pain all in my like in my groin and in the hip part of me and all and so he did a lot of explaining and gave me some exercises to do to get to wake up my hip muscles and all because a lot of stuff i'm sure is frozen from not only running so much but also being so fat for so long i'm sure my pelvis is a weird shape sometimes. I don't know.

But he showed me how to get started moving my body. And that was the first step. It started changing. And it made me go, you know what? I should do yoga. It made the movements he did felt like yoga movements. I was like, okay, instead of having to go to Manhattan and see him him every yeah you know i'll just start doing yoga and see if it helps and it has been it's been like magnificent yeah just really open up the hips and the psoas and and create that space yeah you know it's like it's

about like loosening it up so there's more in the breathing like because i think the lungs like when you from the inside what it does to your spine as your body physically heaves and, you know, makes breath, you know, cause there's something that happens when I'm breathing, you know, the cat cow stuff, I always hear things moving when I'm doing cat cow. Well, it takes a certain level of discipline to know that you actually have to back off.

And you've been really good about that. Like even, and you know, like on Strava, you still like post all your stuff, but it'll just be like, I went on a walk, you know? And it's like, that's cool, that's where I'm at. Yeah, it's like, it's okay. And, you know, I think for people that get into running and then become obsessed with running

and it's one race after another, you feel like you're, you know, I think for people that get into running and then become obsessed with running and it's one race after another, you feel like you're, you know, a superhuman and you think you're never gonna hit that injury. And especially when you become plant-based, you're like, oh, plants got me. I can do whatever I want. It's not gonna prevent your knee from blowing out. I can be pervious to everything.

Yeah, you've had to learn that lesson the hard way from trying to go back too soon, which I think is a really common thing. Like, I feel all right, like I'm gonna go hit it again. And then you just never heal. Yeah, letting like obligation, letting a race obligation sort of push me ahead like before I was ready, you know,

cause I had a race on the horizon. That's why I kept going, try to, cause like, man, I don't have, and there's a mountain 100 miler that I wanted to do in September, right? I was like, man, I don't have enough time to get it. If I take two more weeks, I'm not going to be able to build my base. All right. So two of the kind of huge media events that occurred in your life since the last time we spoke is, and you mentioned it,

you landed the cover of Runner's World magazine, which was crazy, right? Yeah. And then unrelated to that, really, you ended up on Good Morning America because of this Facebook group that you created. My dogs, my boys. Start with the Runner's World thing.

Yeah, that was crazy. Some like just a bunch of people on social media kept like tagging me in this thing that this promotion that Runner's World was doing like a cover photo contest and it wound up being, and it was a bunch of before and photo contest. And it wound up being, and it was a bunch of before and afters is what it wound up being, but that wasn't the theme of the deal.

But anyway, it was just about your running story. And so I was like, okay, I'll do that. And I put my running story in there about my, specifically with the Crescent City Classic and that, Explain why that race is so. Because, okay. So in the, in the very beginning,

the first race I ever did was the 10K, the Crescent city classic in New Orleans. And it took me like an hour and 43 minutes. And that race, that, that distance became like a, like sort of like a indication of something to me. Like it showed progress. You took that on like before.

You were still in your journey of losing weight. Sure. That was a part of like keeping you engaged. I had lost some weight, but the first one I still weighed like 330, 340, something like that in the first one. And that's why it took me an hour and 40 minutes to do a 10k

and then the next year uh you know i so my my story the next year i i wanted to do under an hour and i got that done and that sort of set me off into trying to like be a better runner which sent me to you and all this other stuff and then the next and then the next year i wanted to get a poster for the first time and and um this race if you there's 30 000 entrants so if you get a top 500 finish you get a special commemorative poster and it's like a big fucking deal in new orleans like if you were running and you new orleans like you got a poster this year? That's the thing. Like, we want to know, like, where are you? Oh, you're not a poster. You didn't get a poster? Okay.

So that's the thing. See you next year. Right. And so I was, like, starting to get into running circles, right, and starting to understand that. And I was like, I want a poster, damn it. And I got a poster. How many attempts?

Three attempts to get there? That was my third, yeah. I had no idea about a poster until I was training to break 50 minutes in the third one. That's what I was really wanting to do. And the third one was to break 50 minutes. But what wound up happening is I broke like 40, I ran 46 and change in a training run. And then the people that I ran that with said dude you should

probably try to get a poster this year yeah and then he's like if you could run sub 45 you could probably get a poster so that third year i ran 4308 so it's like an hour in three years that was like oh that was a whole hour i mean it was low-hanging fruit yeah that was just a little ball you know ain't nothing, man. Yeah. But since then, I broke 40 minutes for the first time. Howard came down, and he wanted a poster. He's like, I think I can run fast enough to get a poster.

And he did. He got a poster, man. He got a top 500 finish. It was hot that year. A lot of people fell off. And he wound up finishing 45, 15 and getting a poster. I ran 39, 55 and that's still my 10K PR. That's your PR, yeah.

And so in the context of like this runner's world story, that- So I just kind of shared that, yeah, shared that sort of continuum about my running in a more abbreviated version, obviously, to fit the contest rules. And I shared a before picture of me and asked my friends on social media to vote for me. And I didn't see the vote totals getting up really high, so I didn't think anything would ever happen. But it turns out the votes were just like a tiny part of what they were really, how they were really going to choose the thing, you know. So they had Bart Yasso and the editor-in-chief of Runner's World and Mr. Jim Weber, the CEO of Brooks.

the CEO of Brooks. And they just sort of really kind of went through all of the stories and picked the top 10 and brought all 10 of us up. You guys to New York. Yeah, I'm still friends with all of them. You guys go running and make a photo shoot with you and all kinds of stuff. And then after that, they were like, okay.

So then it was like the final thing. And then they picked who the girl winner was and the guy winner was. Yeah. And I won. And I was like, I was beside myself. thing and then they picked who the girl winner was and the guy winner was yeah and um and i won and i was i was like i was beside myself i couldn't imagine what is that like to go you know to a newsstand or or you know to see that magazine on it you know sitting around somewhere it's funny like i don't because i can't even compute. Yeah. Okay. It's a runner's world and I'm on the cover.

I mean, it almost doesn't even seem like real. It's powerful. I feel proud of myself in ways I've never felt proud of myself before in my entire life. And it's almost like a emblem. It's almost like a look. Like you didn't just lose weight, you did this. But what I get from you is it's not a, hey, look at me. No, it's not.

It's a symbol of like all this journey, like all the work that you put in to completely transform yourself from this, you know, person that you were from this person that you were into this person that you are today. It's like a totem, right? It's just, it represents that shift. It's not like, hey, how many people read the magazine? It's like just an acknowledgement.

And that's what, that's exactly right. It's being like people going, being acknowledged for something that people think idea that has value, right? To others, which that's like, you know, that's powerful to feel like you're valuable to someone or valuable to lots of people just because of what you've been through. Do you find that the flip side of that is that now suddenly people who, like a big part of your whole thing is like you're very relatable.

Like people can connect with you because you're like a dude, right? But suddenly you're on the cover of a magazine now maybe not so relatable, you know? Oh, well Josh did that, but like, look, he's on the cover of magazines, he's all fancy pants now. You know, that's not my life. Yeah, I know it's tricky, but it's,

if once people, I guess, meet me, they can understand. That's why I try to stay so raw on my social media. I really don't like because that way people do understand that I'm just a normal person. Right. You're going on a rant at like 4 in the morning in your truck. Yeah, exactly. I'm just a normal dude. There's nothing really special about me like results are typical if you apply you know the power of plants to your life and the power of bipedal locomotion

and getting outside and getting some sunshine and using this human body the way it was intended to be used and love somebody man i mean it's pretty simple and to be really damn happy. And so shame is such a secret. All right, Josh, like I get it, I'm inspired, but like, does it have to be like the plant-based thing? Like I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about this low carb diet. Maybe I'm gonna go keto.

Like what's the deal with the plants? Like, why is that the trip for you? The thing is, I think you would agree that nutrients are very important in our diet and there's no more nutrient dense way to eat than a heavily plant-based diet. So we don't, let's not even call it plants. Let's just say we're gonna eat a nutrient-rich diet

that's high in fiber and very calorically dilute because we're trying to lose weight right now. Now, if you can do that with some hamburger meat, show me, show me how we do that. But we need these things to do the thing you say you want. So if you say you want that, this is what we have to do. If you do otherwise, then you're not choosing the thing you say you want. So you got some work to do. You're lying to yourself a little bit and I don't know how to help you. I can only show you some, you know, some data and tell you what I did and help you through the

thing. But ultimately it's up to you to use your plate as a volume knob on potential disease or current disease. It's up to you. How has your approach to your diet evolved since the first time that we talked? Like what have you learned? How has it changed? How have you dialed it in?

It's gotten really simple. It's gotten a lot simpler since then. But it's gotten really simple. It's gotten a lot simpler since then. I do lots more savory for breakfast than I used to. I used to do lots of oats and fruit and things like that. Not that that's bad. It's just, it's not my thing.

I'd much rather a good warm bowl of real soupy white beans over some kale, you know, big giant ass bowl of that after a long run in the morning, after a good eight, nine mile, six, eight mile run in the morning, that is where, that's what I want after my run. So, you know, getting simpler, having savory pretty much all the time.

I don't really, I don't do a whole lot of sweet. I do. I do like apples for snacks and things like that. But when it comes down to sitting down and eating a meal, it's almost every single meal is going to be something hot and savory. And that's simple. Just keep something in an Instapot and do different things with it as I eat it. And do you cook all your meals? something in an Instapot and do different things with it as I eat it.

And do you cook all your meals? Pretty much during the week, for sure. On the weekends when my wife and I and our puppies are in New Orleans, we go to our favorite plant-based joints in the city. But most of the time, yeah, we just cook our own stuff. We have an Instapot on the on the oven i mean on the counter and bj she makes amazing black beans she does awesome red lentils with some ethiopian spices in it and stuff and we'll have like one of three things for the week and on on and it just stays hot in the instapot you know and she's uh she she didn't originally she wasn't on on the same page as you from the beginning, right?

So where is she at now? Oh, she's on board. And what has that been like? It's amazing because she's on her own little world of like sort of growing her own curiosity in different directions from mine. So like fasting and just different things. And she's dabbling in that stuff and teaching me about it. So it's less about being plant-based per se and more about being curious about where I would like to grow, what I would like to experiment with. And as a couple, that's really fun to that's really fun to to engage in

at what point did she kind of click into this though because at first it was just this is your trip right yeah yeah she um it she she still doesn't like to she's not gonna want to be on any of my social media posts that That's a 100% guarantee. That's clear. That's clear. There was a moment where I was like, is he still married? Is everything okay at home? Oh, everything is great.

And it's because she's not on my social media that everything is great. She's not a fan of her before pictures for sure. She's not a fan of her before pictures for sure. So, but yeah, she didn't see the need at first to get rid of like her. She was like, yeah, get rid of meat. That's gross. She's been after me.

Like she would never, I would take old deer meat and I would have to trick her into eating it, making it heart-shaped patties or something. So I would guilt her into eating it. But when I got rid of the meat, it wasn't that big of a deal for her, but the dairy and stuff. But watching Forks Over Knives changed that for her. And then she moved forward. And not only did she do it and go all in as a registered nurse she saw the she saw the science she understood it it made really good sense to her and like she says once i knew it i couldn't unknow it you know and so now she's an you know she's an employer herself and and she's got 30 employees lots of them are are nurses and nurses, aides and stuff. And so like her

assistant is plant-based the, the, her, her, her partner in the, in the, in the business is plant based now or older. He's older than us. He's not old at all. But he's just an older guy. He's older than us. And he's like, I didn't even know i had 30 pounds to lose we bought him eat to live for christmas one year yeah and he's like oh my god i'm off all of my mat i'm off all my statins i lost 30 pounds i didn't even know i had 30 pounds to lose i feel like i'm gonna live forever it's like so she's being infectious in her little community as well like her little immediate environment and they got she's got old people is are so adorable. She's like, baby, I'm taking the Vitamix to work today. I got some Miss So-and-So. Miss Boudreaux wants a green smoothie. She wants me to show her how to make one. So that's fun, man. Yeah, it's really

cool. So when people approach you and say, I want to do this know, I have a partner that isn't on the same page or isn't, you know, isn't supportive. I mean, as somebody who has had a little bit of an evolution in your own relationship with that, like what is the kind of advice that you can give to that person? Just, you know, you gotta exhibit consistency on your end. If you really want it to happen, you have to exhibit it. You have to do it to happen you have to exhibit it you have to do it

and you have to be willing to accept that that person may never ever do it and um and you're gonna have to love them through that and luckily i didn't have to go past that step luckily i didn't i don't have to figure out how to do it with someone in the house that isn't on the same page as me. Luckily, BJ, you know, was a pragmatist and saw the same thing I saw and jumped right on board with me. But I feel I get frustrated. I hear a lot of the husbands who are like, you know, women who are type two diabetics, who this could like reverse that and fix it, but they got to go home and hear, I don't want to do all that vegan shit. You better cook me some steak and macaroni. Yeah. That's so dumb. That's not manly at all.

You know? And to hear those stories from ladies we're trying to help is like, God doggy bro. It's tough. It's weird. It's bizarre that our sense of what it means to be a man is oddly tied up in what foods we choose to eat. When you really think about it, it doesn't make any sense. But that's the fact. That's the truth. That's the way our culture functions. It is what it is.

It's reinforced with constant advertising. I think it was, didn't you even post something the other day about functions. It is what it is. It's reinforced with constant advertising. I think it was, didn't you even post something the other day about like somebody, who was it? Was it you? Oh, maybe it was Nimai. He's like, I watched an NFL game. Like every ad, you know,

was reinforcing this masculine stereotype that you have to eat these certain foods or you're a fucking pussy. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? That's exactly right. And so that is not leading us in a positive direction in terms of health when you consider the fact

that one out of every three people suffers a heart attack from heart disease. Yeah, and I mean, you know, honestly. I don't know what the rates are in Thibodeau, but they're probably higher. Bad, yeah, is what we would say. I mean, give me a typical, like a snapshot of what it looks like down there in terms of-

Okay, so I'll just walk you through our locker room. So in the wellness center, we have, I would say, just a rough guess, a good half, and I'm being generous here, of all the guys that are going to the gym, and I love them, I'm not picking on them, but at least half of them would be technically morbidly obese. And I would say maybe more of them who are my age or older, are on statins, you know? And some of them are having dialysis because they've had, I don't know what you've had so long that you wind up needing dialysis.

But I have a buddy I talk to all the time who he's losing weight now, but it's because he is so diseased. So whether you go to Walmart or you go to Rouse's or people riding in buggies and people always talking about the next heart attack or the last heart attack or the cancer that they got, that's ubiquitous, man. Disease is ubiquitous, and especially on the body. So much so it's a norm. It's a norm. Why so much so it's a normal, it's a norm.

And when it becomes normal, then it just feels like there's no need to do any, like if everybody's in your predicament, then there's no urgency to change. Yep, yeah. And the only way, honestly, that someone like me is willing to or able to go against the grain in that environment is because I know I got people that have my back that are really smart. They might live in California or they might live in North Carolina, but I'm not all alone. And me being able to have that confidence to stand in a place of vulnerability among the people I know where I speak the language in order to sort of win some sort of influence

in having their ear for just a second, right? that's powerful. Yeah. When you look at the kind of conversations that are happening online around health and diet and nutrition, you know, I don't know about you, but it's pretty toxic. A lot of people yelling at each other, throwing, you know, epithets at each other, you know, whether it's the, you know, vegans against the low carb people and the ketosis people and the intermittent fasting people.

There's all these camps, right? Everybody's got the same goal. How can we improve health in America across the world? We have different ideas about how to do that. But the level of communication that is taking place right now has devolved into this mudslinging affair whereby nobody is benefiting, nobody's listening to each other.

And certainly the people who need the most help are not able to hear any of it. And I think that reinforces a paralysis that keeps people stuck in their habits that are no longer serving them. And, you know, big thing that I've been spending a lot of time thinking about is how to transcend that, like how to have better communication,

how to have better conversations, how to really understand where other people are coming from so that you can find an effective way to have a conversation that perhaps could have a positive impact. And I think it starts with empathy. It starts with, you know, sort of taking a beat, maybe letting go of whatever dogma you're holding onto

and why it's so emotionally charged for you. And just pausing to try to understand somebody else. And I see you as somebody who's been very effective at taking these tools that have transformed your life, that you've learned from people who live outside the Bayou, coming home and finding a way to translate them into a way that can incite positive change in other people. So when you look at that dialogue,

that conversation that's either happening online or even in communities face-to-face with certain people, like how do you think about that? What is your opinion on that and how can we do better? Well, I think if we just keep having the conversation even when it's ugly, even when it's gross, even when it feels like mudslinging, whatever it is, let's be consistently talking about it. Let's keep pushing the snowball up the hill. Lacks in a lot of all of the talk that I'm participating in myself and witness and read online is a lot of sincerity is what is missing. You know, I think if we approach with a lot more, even if we're wrong in something, if we're truly sincere about trying to convey something of value to someone, I think we are headed in the right direction.

The reason is, I mean, I have words with people online. Yeah, you mix it up. I don't give a fuck. Like, bro, because this is not playtime for me. This is, I'm not selling Herbalife or something. This is not what we do in here, bro. This is not what we do in here. We're doing, I am talking or something. This is not what we do in here, bro. This is not what we do in here. We're doing, I am talking about something.

I'm talking about grabbing a machete and going after something that I know now took my grandmother away at 67 years old, made my grandfather miserable for the last few years of his life. You know, I know that it's a beast. And so I'm not playing. It's not a joke to me. And so I don't mind speaking out. So I don't think it should be unicorns and lollipops, the context of this nutritional, whatever you want wanna call it, this battle that's happening online sometimes.

But I do think that it lacks a lot of sincerity. I think a lot of people are faking the funk and preaching at people before they even have a foothold on shit themselves. And that's where a lot of the noise comes from. But being frank and real with somebody is needed as long as it comes from a sincere place. And I don't mind apologizing if I was incorrect,

but I'm gonna try and speak my mind and try and stay to what I think and know is real in my world. And if I'm wrong, tell me, I wanna know if I'm wrong. Yeah, well, I mean, I think you accomplished that. I mean, you're unbelievably real and authentic in how you share your unique experience and what you've gone through

and how you've gotten to where you're at right now. And one of the kind of things that you've done that really stood out to me was that time that you took some pictures of you without your shirt on with all the extra skin hanging down. He's like, this is the truth of what happens when you go from 420 or whatever, down to where you're at right now.

Like you're not gonna look like Neimai. Right, no, I'm not gonna be, every time Dom's like, I tell every time Dom's posts the shirt, or even Garth, they posted a picture without a shirt on it. So I'm like, put on a shirt, man. I hate y'all killing me. Because you're sitting across from me right now for people that are just listening to this. You're jacked.

You got some guns on you. Yeah, but I also have stretch marks, you know? I have these things. My body has gone through a lot. And even with all of this, even with all of this, it's so much less worse than I imagined when I was 420 pounds. Because I was like, even imagine if I lost all the weight, how much extra skin I would have. I remember getting my first stretch marks on my way to get fat. It ruined my whole summer.

It ruined my senior trip. We were in Cancun and I took my shirt off and I was about to go to the beach with all of my friends and I passed by the mirror in the bathroom and I saw stretch marks down my side and I was haunt. What were you pushing then? Oh, I was probably 300 pounds then. Right, but it was the stretch marks that got you. The stretch marks got me. And so I made up the fact that I was bored and I wasn't enjoying the trip.

And I played like a fuddy dud just to avoid going on the beach with my friends. It made everybody mad at me. So this skin has been around for a long time and I've also, and so- But to like own that, to be like, hey man, I'm here, this is what it looks like. Right, and then also understand though,

the skin is an organ and it's alive, you know? And it's constantly adapting. So I'm in process right now. Like where is it now compared to where it was at two years ago? Oh God, really, really good. Like if I was right- Does it was at two years ago? Oh God, really, really good. Like if I have tried- Does it contract still?

It's better and better, but my body fat I have left is held really loosely and flabbily like around my belly button. I don't know if that'll ever go anywhere. I mean, I don't see a whole lot of like X, like people who've lost 230 pounds doing shirtless cover shoots. So I don't know. I don't know if there's examples of that without surgery without cutting it off of myself i'm not

doing that go to beverly hills and have them snip it off for you yeah we're gonna skip that one so without that i better just put some effort into being pretty damn okay with it. And when I think about it, especially when I look at it against my clothes, right? Because my clothes are so huge. I know, you saved some of those. You shared something about that the other day, like you put on one of your old jerseys. That's the way I want people to think about it.

Yeah, I look weird a little bit. But the thing is, because it's mostly heavy people that are asking me this question. And it's like, you're so worried about looking as bad as you think i look under my shirt that you're scared to lose 200 pounds how silly is that it's crazy um but yeah you think about the shirt though the extra material in a five or six extra large i had some of my t-shirts was six extra large. And you think about the extra material in that shirt and you compare that to what extra material

I have in skin on my body, my body did pretty damn good. Right. It's winning. Yeah, there's more cotton than there is skin, right? Yeah. What was the reaction when you posted that it was it was uh it was it was heartwarming it was nice there were comments that people

make that think they're being you know supportive that this one bothers me and i hope i don't offend anybody who said it who's it because a lot of people say it, so it's not like one person. But I'll post something like that and it'll tell me how brave I am. And I don't feel brave at all. That's almost confirming that I look bad to tell me how brave it is of me. Well, it takes courage to be vulnerable like that. Yeah, I guess so. And to do that is to put yourself in a vulnerable position.

I guess so. But I can't help how it feels when I read it. You know what I'm saying? Because it's still- It doesn't land, right? Yeah, it doesn't land now. It's like, oh, if I look like that, I could never take off my shirt. That's the way I read it, you know?

Right. But that's just their own fear. You're braver than me. It's just that people are, they're just afraid. Look, man, it's still a lot of like stuff I work through every single day of thoughts that are twisted, that I'm untwisting still, getting offended when I probably shouldn't have been.

And like, I'm still learning. Well, let's talk about that. How to be a better person. Let's talk about that. Because the weight loss thing is just a surf, that's on the surface. Sure. That's what everyone wants's talk about that. How to be a better person. Let's talk about that. Because the weight loss thing is just a surf, that's on the surface. Sure. That's what everyone wants to talk about,

how to do that. But what are the changes that have happened emotionally? Like, what is this spiritual trajectory that you're on? Like, where are you at with all of that? How has that changed or evolved over the last couple of years? Yeah. I've never, like I was really religious when I was a kid.

Well, I wasn't religious, my family was. My grandmother was the daughter of a Baptist minister, my Bam Bam's wife. And so it was church twice on Sunday, we'd go on Wednesday night. And I grew up in that very Protestant, right-wing, Baptist environment. And in a lot of ways, I've railed against the hypocrisy I saw as a kid, you know, because I know the behind closed doors stuff that happens and then all the stuff that happens during fellowship at church, right? And so I've moved away from that

as I've grown older in my life. And although I'm not religious at all, I see where religion is coming from. You know, I see what it's trying to get at the more I move forward. And maybe it's just from getting older, but that spirituality means something bigger to me than anything religion could ever encapsulate you know and it's so simple it's so much simpler than all of those rules and things and really surrendering to just living

you know an authentic life for myself, that simple little phrase really helps free up a mind to unlock and unleash your most authentic self. And that in and of itself, like your self-love, that's your religion, that's religion, that's how you thank God for your existence. And I'm glad to have come across that, you know, because I feel fulfilled. I feel whole.

And I feel like when you're in that place, even though I have tons of shit to deal with, and still, that's not fun but i feel complete and then you feel like being of service for other people it's that that continuum of learn one do one teach one well the feeling of completeness comes from the giving back and the thing no yeah and another thing i learned from you i mean this is something that you've like really taken on. You know, like you really have made this commitment to make your life about giving back this gift that's been given to you in your community. And, you know, the Facebook group, you're wearing the wristband for the Missing Chins Club.

I'm gonna give you one. I'll let you be an honorary chin. I don't know if I qualify though, because I don't really, I never got big enough to have a second chin, maybe a little dimple on my chin. Yeah, but you had a vaunt. You had a vaunt.

People in Timothy- What's that? What's a vaunt? That's a belly, bro. Oh, you know it? Yeah. Yeah, I definitely had that. You had a vaunt.

Right. So when did you start that? And how did that like lead you to Good Morning America? Well, that's a fun story because like, so you put me out in the social media world and then like, so then people started connecting with me and other people who had lost big weight were like, oh, I lost weight too. And I'm on a plant-based diet too. And my name is so-and-so and let's be friends. And so that sort of happened. And you accumulate all of my friends, the Anthony Macielos and the Jason Coens and, you know, all of my buddies, the Tim Kaufman, my pal, you know, Fat Man Rants and all these people that I was connecting with individually.

I was like, man, we should all be in the same place. And I didn't want it to be something that we were going to like turn into a Facebook page and sell T-shirts about because there were ideas about doing it that way. And I just sort of said, no, let's just do a secret Facebook group of just us, and we get to talk about our stretch marks and our deflated man boobs and how difficult it is. People don't understand what it's like to train for a marathon when you got extra skin flapping around. You got to make sure you get the right type of compression shorts for so you don't yeah have those conversations sound like an audience while you're running you're afraid to talk to anyone about right with the only guys you might be able so that's all it started it was like maybe 20 of us uh-huh and one of those guys in that group is um is uh eric o'gray he's so he's a he's a missing chin you know you're

familiar with his story with the and so eric said hey man this is really cool i have a friend that works for runners where i think he would like to do an article on it and that was it and so eric eric uh sent sent the idea to his friend at runners's World. And then they did an article on the missing chins. They came down, all of the ones that live geographically close enough to me, they showed up. We did a photo shoot in Pelche Park in Thibodeau. Secret groups, not so secret anymore.

And then all of a sudden, boom. Did you let the writer get access to see what was on the page? I got permission from the guys, but I did. And I'll include them in, but I also did for the girl that was, uh, that she was producing for the GM for, for Good Morning America. So what happened was after the, after the runner's world thing, people magazine picked it up and did a similar story. And then after that, I was just laying around hurting really bad.

My back was bothering me and, um, and I was depressed and I get really bad. My back was bothering me. And I was depressed. And I get a phone call and I almost didn't answer it because I didn't recognize the number. And it was like, hey, I'm so and so. 212. I don't know anyone in 212. So she's like, hey, I'm so and so with Good Morning America. And I was like, okay. We would like to see if you would like to do a story, if you'd be even interested.

And I was like, yeah. So ultimately, I just kept, you know, how those things go. You email a million and you, you get guys hopes up because they think they want to do one thing. And then it's like, you're the bad guy because you're delivering these crazy messages of like, you think, I think I'm going to be able to get all of you guys to come. And then you, oh, only these guys can come. Oh, you got to swap it around. They want this now. They want it to be there. And so being the messenger and getting people disappointed and excited, that part kind of sucked.

But that's all that happened was they read about the missing chins and then it was an inspirational story for the end of the year. And so they asked us to put together to come and if we'd be willing to come up and so that's what it was i called a few guys from around the uh the country to represent like a wide swath right so how many how many people are part of that group at that point at that point uh probably a hundred a hundred yeah and there were like what like nine of you or something like that that that showed up for the segment um it was a group of like no no five or six yeah it was just like yeah just i think it was just five of us i think it was just five of us for good morning yeah yeah yeah it's a trip man and uh i just saw i when i watched it i was just thinking about what was going through your mind

talking to stray hand i wanted to talk so much. I did. I got to remind him about a 40-burger that the Saints put on his defense the year he retired. And he was like, oh, I remember. He said, I've been trying to forget about that game since I retired. But it was his last game in the Dome, I think. And they won the Super Bowl that year. So ultimately, he wins the dome, I think. And they won the Superbowl that year. So ultimately he wins.

Yeah, he wins, but they got their ass handed to him in the dome. Right. I think for me, it was emotional seeing you on television because unlike the runner's world thing, like this was about like something that you helped to build that wasn't about you. Yeah.

And that's really what it's about. Like how can you scale beyond your own personal achievements in a way that can impact people positively for the long term. And it was a recognition of that, again, like a symbolic thing. It's not about like being on Good Morning America. It's like culture is recognizing that,

not just that you created this thing, but that there are opportunities for a better way forward to address these problems that so many people have. Yeah. And these guys, I mean, look, Rich, you'd be so proud of like they come together and come to each other's aid. Like they'll start group messages and raise money for each other to help each other buy, like buy what they need. Like, oh, I don't have a running watch. I'm saving up. We'll see.

And then we'll like either don't. And we have like a thing, when when one of the chins is about to get rid of if he buys a new watch and he'll and it's a watch that he wants to just give away or just post and say who wants it and the first guy that asked for it just send it to him in the mail like it's a real deep pack it's a community it's it's a it's tight-knit and you know we had 100 people for good morning america i don't think we have more than 200 now. How many invite solicitations did you get after that? Tons, man. But the thing is, it's secret.

So it's hard for people to find it unless they find us. They got to go look at the video, remember how to spell our names, and then go find us on social media and message us and ask us and give us a little story about themselves and convince us that they deserve or not deserve but belong with us in our group and um so it's a barrier to entry on purpose because we want the right people we want you really looking how to find us and when you you do, I'm gonna probably let you. What's the weirdest thing that you guys have had a chat about on that group? Oh my God, this guy was trying to raise money with a GoFundMe or something.

And it felt fishy and awkward. And so one of the guys like researched his name and it turned out he had done like this go fund me fraud before and so we start calling him out like he was trying to use the missing chins club get everyone to get everyone like to feel sorry to sob story like he was trying to do that and then when we called him out on he went off calling us like like like some of the nicest old guy like we got some older fellows in there that are struggling and trying to get their shit together.

And like, just be like, he just went off. Like talking about wanting to kill everybody. And like, it was crazy. It was the, so we had all kinds of little messages going like, who is this guy? What is going on? He's the only person that we've had to block. You had to banish him.

Yeah, that's the lone case. Wow, and what are some of the success stories? So my buddy, Adam Brown is one of my favorite. He's this redheaded kid from the sticks, I think up in, I'm sorry, Adam, it's Illinois or Pennsylvania. He's up from up north somewhere. Right.

But he's country. Anything north of Georgia. Yeah, anything north of I-10, bro. And you're a redneck. I don't know. So, yeah, so Adam, he lives up in the sticks. He lives in the woods just like we do. So he came down for the Louisiana Marathon.

The Louisiana Marathon gave us a bunch of free entries, gave us like 20 entries for the marathon or half, whatever you wanted, just for our Missing Chins buddies. And so he drove down to take advantage of one of those, this guy, Adam. And we talked and we talked. He was just getting started with his plant-based stuff. He was, I think, pre-diabetic or type two, not sure, but he was overweight, but he hunted and he lived in the country and he had all of these identity things that my story really resonated with him. And for whatever reason, his mindset clicked. He stayed consistent. He kept trying.

I could tell when I talked to him at the marathon, he was really skeptical about believing he could do it. And I get it because I've been there. And I haven't worked with Adam at all. I haven't done shit. Adam has just done it all on his own. But just being a part of this organic community where he just passively gets information and inspiration. Since then, he's lost a whole bunch of weight. I don't know how much,

but it's pretty impressive to see his before and after. And it's clicked. Oh, he gets how simple it is. And now just like Tim Kaufman and like all these other guys, Anthony Macielo and myself, it's automatic and it's gravity. And now it has just taken the balls rolling downhill.

It's momentum. It's momentum and you're good. But it's not just him. There's another guy. So it's a crazy story. I have a buddy who lives right next to me named Jason. And Jason is from Philly, right? But he lives in Shreve, Louisiana.

And so Jason has lost a lot of weight. And because he's so close to me, we've run together before and we've gotten together online. And he fought with low carb for years and wound up going plant-based and it helped him a lot with his weight loss. And so he was trying to talk to his buddy, Jeff, up in Philly. Hey, his buddy was really overweight. You should join the Missing Chins with us. We're going to help you out. And Jeff struggled, man.

Jeff was, he came in and he always had questions, but it was a lot of self-deprecation in his way he was asking questions. And we didn't even really answer the questions. Most of the time, we just talked about the self-deprecating tone. And just, man, you a bad son of a bitch, what you talking about get up get your head together and son you know over time jeff has lost 100 pounds i saw him he i didn't even recognize his clothes all fucking baggy and stuff it's so crazy he i saw him at leadville he just comes to leadville and he's got just gym shorts and a regular T-shirt. And all his stuff is bagging.

He's like, man, 100 pounds, man. And he's all excited about it. That's amazing. Kevin, I could go on. There's dudes on the body. There's dudes right there in Thibodeau that are in this thing. And they're plant-based. They're not all out in the world about it.

They don't want to be Josh about it. Like I'm doing this because I was inspired to by a mentor of mine. Not everybody has to go and get on a microphone and do the thing your way, do your thing. But there's a lot of guys that are, you know, changing. They get it. They get it.

They see the power and then they're deciding how much of it they're willing to take right now. And they take bite after bite and I think the bites get bigger as they go. The community piece is so- So important. That's all they talked about at Plantrition this weekend. It was so massive.

That's the sauce, man, for the change in mass. Yes. The connectivity, the feeling like you're not doing it alone that there's somebody who can answer your questions. There's somebody who will hold you accountable. There's somebody who will pat you on the back. And I think culturally, we've just, we just live lives way more isolated

than we were genetically wired to do. We need that, we need that to move forward. I think that's a huge part of why we've slid so far down this rabbit hole of disease and poor health. Because we're not connected, we're not being held accountable. Yeah, and for me, the first thing that really sparked my community

or my desire for newer community was becoming a runner and doing my very first run group. It has, you know, people dismiss me when I talk about the running and it like as if it's just a calorie burning activity. It's not exercise exercise this is how we do it this is how we we're pack animals we're we would move bipedally in in like groups man this is what we do this is what type of animal we are what i was talking about with sanjay rawal exactly

yeah that oof i had to pause that one halfway through so I could finish buffering. My eyes were rolling. You haven't seen the movie yet though, have you? No, I have not. You'll love it. Yes, oh gosh, I have to. What else was going on at Plantrition?

Well, you know, the normal lineup of all stars, really cool stuff because of you people, know coming up to me like that was that was a really surreal thing we we had a booth you know our well start thing that howard and yeah sure and um but we had that and people these doctors are coming up and talking to me and i'm like a little apprehensive to talk to a doctor about my expertise, right? But a lot of them would come up to me and want to take a picture of me because they knew about me from you, right? Oh, you're one of my favorite podcasts. I tell my patients about you all the time. I got that at least, and I'm not exaggerating, Rich, at least eight times

this weekend. Yeah. Well, it's a target rich environment. Of course. It's like high concentration. Of course, but it's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, no, it's great, man. It's pretty freaking cool, dude. I mean, that means a lot to me too, it's awesome. It's pretty cool to be able to, yeah.

You know, the last time we did, the first time we did the podcast was 2013. You know? Yeah. That struck a chord. It was a Skype call. I'm sure I haven't gone back and listened to it. I mean, I'm sure the audio is terrible.

I have no idea. But it was so powerful that it just transcends all of that nonsense. And the fact that people are still discovering a conversation that we had literally five years ago and then followed up three years ago is insane. Yeah. You know?

It feels awesome to be part, like, you know, to be part of that conversation. That is such a gift that I don't, and I know I fall over myself, you know, always thanking you for it, but it's just the truth, man. It's just such a gift that, like I'm just this guy from Chagme. I'm not like I was raised in a trailer park, dude.

I'm nothing special. And to have you say, oh, look at this guy, he holds value. Man, that's huge for me. The story is super powerful. And I would say to you, what you tell people in your Facebook group, like why are you denigrating yourself in that way?

Because what you did is extraordinary. The way you did it, perhaps even more extraordinary. And it would be a crime had you not made that decision to share your story because it's a pilot light, man. It is a catalyst for so many people out there who are struggling, who just need a lifeline, who need to find somebody that they can connect with. And we all have our various ways of carrying this torch.

And I know that I can reach certain people, but there's a huge swath of people that can't relate to me that can relate to you. And that's why it's so powerful, the vibration that you're carrying. And so I'm not surprised that people are still saying that that was impactful for them,

but you're the one just like in the way that you decided to get to work and put those running shoes on and commit to this lifestyle change and then to give it back, like you're the one who's done the work and shown up to build this thing that you've built that has brought you to places like the Plantrition Project

and connected you with people like Howard and to this WellStart project that you're working on and this book that you're writing. So like, tell me about what's going on with that. Yeah, it all started just because, another sort of nudge from you about getting my story in a book and like to really pursue that, that should be something that I should be working towards.

So I took that to heart and I wrote, I wrote a lot, I wrote a lot and I a lot um and i put together everything i could think of and a very raw sort of manuscript that i mean it was tons and tons of my life and deep dark stuff that i've never really told a lot of people and i didn't know really what to do with it you know but uh met met up with Garth the year after you were at HealthFest and Garth put me in touch with Howard. Long story short, that's what happened. Howard Jacobson, who's been on the podcast a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. And his podcast with you was powerful for me and it sent me down the road to go read

Whole, which the way things were put in Whole was really something that it really lends itself to being okay with surrender, the way whole is couched, you know? So it's so complicated. Forget about it. Back up, back up. Let's just eat whole foods. And I got that. And that was a huge thing.

So to have the co-author of that book contact me via facebook message and said thank you for accepting my friendship request i was like are you fucking kidding me you know and so uh we just struck up a conversation on messenger and then we had a phone call and then one thing led to the next and it's like i have a whole bunch of stuff that i wrote howard's ready to like move to the bio yeah and how and so next thing you know it's like i'm he's like well i think maybe the next step is we should meet each other and i was like yeah and so you know over the years howard and i have just become like brothers man just like in that that that last podcast with you how i said i never had a big brother now like i have multiple big, people who are literally like I look up to, like I would look up to a big brother. And like I've shared deep things with Howard and spent long, long conversations.

And so we've gotten really, really close. And he knows a lot about me and he knows a lot about what went into me being able to get traction. And he knows what's important along the way in my journey. And he's just a brilliant writer. And so Howard has been able to, from writing my, helping me get together with all of the stuff that I wrote, plus writing what he added to it to make it better, right?

All of that stuff, in doing that practice, at the same time, we worked on this coaching platform because Howard really, he already does the coaching stuff and he thought that I would be a good fit for that. And he saw an opportunity for us to work together as a team. And he proposed like, hey, we should start this program, this coaching program. So we did. And he used a lot of what he learned from my story in building the curriculum, making a lot of things teachable about menu and movement and mindset and how to couch a lot of the things the way that I sort of couched it in my brain. And so we did that for a few years. And one of his podcast guests just so happened to be this

tech person who was building an online platform and it was going to be an app and all. And she saw what we did with our coaching stuff. And she's like, I think we should have an opportunity. So we kind of, we flirted with that for a while and we wind up mashing together. And now I'm a founder of this tech company. Right. Right. And we're going to have a native app in about three or four weeks. We just had a meeting.

Oh, wow. That's cool. So we just had our first like corporate meeting in San Diego. That was really cool. All face to face. And I feel all like I'm part of something. It's exciting. It's scary because I have no idea what I'm doing. I know what I'm doing when I'm talking to people, when I'm relating what Howard and I have been working on and honing.

But when it comes to like this, the being part of a startup or a tech startup, especially I'm kind of like, it's kind of overwhelming at times, but it's really fun and something very rewarding to surrender to, I have to say. That's cool. So it's called Wellstart. It's called Wellstart.

It'll be like an app that'll have online coaching or programs on it? Yeah, of course. We'll have Howard's built out this 12-week program, and then we do these weekly coaching calls where it's like a group coach on video, right? Group coaching calls on video once a week. And we have a plant-based dietician, and we just try to help everybody orient into that growth mindset. We're not going to tell you what to do right now. We help you identify where you are and we're trying to help you nudge into that direction of better that we've identified

because you have type two diabetes or you're overweight or we've quantified, we've made specific goals here. And so that's all we do. And through a 12 week program, we do that. And I do like daily, like two minute videos where we text the people and I get- Joshisms. Yeah, I get a bunch of those. And people love them.

So we just keep doing them. That's funny. But it seems to really help. We had some amazing success stories in there. And I've really made some real deep personal friendships and relationships through this whole thing with some of the people that have been through the program. A bunch of them came to PlantStop. So you've been beta testing it with like a- Yeah, of course. I got you. Yeah, we've been doing- So live and do you have a date for live or you're just- No, the CTO said three or four weeks. Wow.

In the meeting. Yeah, cool, man. That's exciting. That's the plan. Super cool. And that would be really cool. And what was really cool was as we're at Plantrition and we have the booth out and we sort of explain what we're doing. And now we have Dr. Sarai Stancic as our chief medical officer. Because she was a fly on the wall in our program. She was like, oh, my God, this is what we need. This is what physicians need.

And so she was mouthpiece in us at Plantrition all weekend. It was just really surreal for me to be there and have like Michael Greger standing there talking about WellStart with us going, I really like this. That's pretty cool. You know, that's amazing to me.

Yeah. That is, that's amazing to me. You. That is, that's amazing to me. You know. Come a long way, my friend. Right? But it's so, and I got it, who knows where it's going? And it's so fun. Like every day is a mystery.

Like I'm in, I'm sitting, I'm sitting at your house right now. I wouldn't, I mean, this is crazy to me. I was just, I was welling up with tears, just driving up as the, as the, it got closer and closer, it was like four miles, two miles, I was like, this is such a big deal. I just like touched that you drove all the way from San Diego to come up here. Man, I would've, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We only got a few minutes left here and I can't let you go without spending a little bit of time trying to get practical on some tools and some takeaways for some people who are listening, who maybe are stuck, maybe are flirting with the idea of trying to change their relationship with food or fitness or trying to get into running. What are the common things that people come to you with

and what are some of the ways forward? Like how do people just, you know, make that start and then make it stick? Well, I'm gonna say something that my grandfather always told me on the job site, right? Cause I was always the boss's grandson on the site and he didn't want me standing around getting caught, like looking lazy or not doing something.

And so he told me he gave me directions when i was like when i was very young that he said i want you doing something even if it's wrong so so that's the first step we got to do something you analyze you think you think plant-based is a thing what about paralysis exactly So what we want to do is we want to do something. I don't care which step that is. I don't care what it is. We want to do something and let's get a result. And let's let our results dictate the sufficiency of what it is we're doing today.

And let's be objective and pragmatic about it because, damn it, we're trying to get somewhere. Let's do this on purpose. Let's do it with purpose. And let's understand that we have a community of people around us that are kind of dependent on us. It's hard to be motivated yourself when you see everybody around you failing. So play your role, be a part, do it for yourself, do it for your community, do it for the family around you. And, you know, let's take the first step, whatever that is, do it, man. Yeah, one of the things that you talk about on the regular is this idea of majoring in the minors.

Yeah, yeah, that's a, yeah, yeah. Which I love and I think it's so true. So like explain that. Yeah, that's actually my buddy, Ryan, and he works at the wellness center in Thibodeau and he posted an Instagram that he, that's what he called it, Majoring in the Minors, where you worry about all of these tiny, minute details about arsenic and rice and glyphosate and your oats, but you ate chicken last night. You ate pizza last night. So let's take the low-hanging fruit right now.

Let's identify that, and let's go after the low-hanging fruit right now. Let's identify that and let's go after the low-hanging fruit. Let's not worry about the six fist-sized servings of kale a day right now. Let's stop eating pizza right now and let's move. Let's start. It's not necessarily about the food. It's about the purposeful habit change. It's about being conscious of what you're doing and doing something on purpose that's different because we want different outcomes

and we understand we have the power to manifest those. And so it's a growth mindset. It's not plant-based. That's what it's about. It's about understanding how to get pragmatic and how to adopt a growth mindset and love yourself enough to perpetually creep forward. And when we can do that, I think everyone's gonna wind up plant-based. Everyone's gonna wind up a runner if you really honestly do that and let gravity have its way.

The growth mindset thing is key because I think what happens with a lot of people is there'll be a window of opportunity or some moment where they're blessed with the willingness to make that change. And they're pretty good for a couple of weeks, but then something will happen. They gotta go out of town or, I don't know,

they just, they have a weak moment and they face plant in the Papa John's or whatever. And then they're like, well, I couldn't do it. And they're done. And then they're just back to whatever they were doing. And it's so hard to recreate that momentum. But if you really are in a place where you're adopting this growth mindset,

it's much easier to just get back on track. Okay, that was- That was a wrong step. Whatever, it's cool. But I'm not gonna like shame myself right out of the game. I'm just gonna look forward. What's the next best thing that I can do and get back on track and start to recreate that momentum

or not allow that momentum to lose too much of its acceleration. That's exactly right. You know, it's just the old adage of how you eat elephant one bite at a time. You have to just keep taking bites. It's, and I get, you know, from you, it's consistency over intensity.

That's what's most important. Of course. You know? Yeah, so you're a plantrition and you got a booth and you got a startup, you're a startup founder. Yeah. You know what I mean? And, you know, you're just a guy from the Bayou

who did a podcast one day and then said yes, when you could go meet three old ladies down the street and teach them how to cook something a little bit healthier. Yeah. So that happens with taking those tiny bites out of the elephant every single day. That's exactly right. Like the elephant made out of kale.

And think of this whole behavior change. Think of your life. Think of this whole thing as growing something, literally. Because if you think of it, Disney can make a very convincing oak tree, but it's not an oak tree, right? What it takes to really make an oak tree is years and years of nurturing and slow growth.

People are impatient though, man. I know. They want the, what's the hack? That's an issue. And let's talk about that because that's got to go away. You know, we don't want, that's in the way. That's in the way of what we're trying to do. So we gotta back off of that.

We need to talk about planting a seed and then fertilizing that seed and then growing it and nurturing it into a tree that ultimately bears fruit. That's what we need to do. And if we can build community around that, then we have this growth medium for those

roots to really set in you know and that's how we grow not only individual behavior change but a movement and how we move in a direction to not only you know save this country but really save humankind man because it's on a terrible trajectory and it's it's sad because it's just because of the we eat it's crazy town so much of it is i mean come on it's not that complicated i'm so confused i love you brother i could go on for another two hours uh um but please come back when you're gonna have this freaking book done? It's gonna be soon actually, because we're just gonna give away, I have a memoir of mine that's later down the road, but we've basically taken everything

that comprises our WellStart program and put it into a book, a free Kindle version and just to give it away. I see, right. And it'll go hand in hand with the app. Correct. That's awesome. And you can just have it and then you don't need us, but if you want us, we're there.

Yeah. We'll give you all the stuff we're gonna give you. It's just whatever. That's good, man. Yeah. And 50K in February? 50K in February and just I'll be taking i'll be taking i'll probably pace a few friends along the way for halves and fools as i get ready um but i'd like to do if i

think i want to race a 50k before i try to race another marathon so i really love the ultras yeah they're spiritual odysseys, man. They suck real good. I love you, man. Love you too, brother. Thank you so much. It's been an honor and a privilege to observe your trajectory. And I'm so proud of you, man. It's beautiful what you've created.

And like I said, at the outset, I really do think it's just the beginning. And I think you're just on your way to making a profound impact on culture and people and bless you, man. Man, thank you so much for being there for me and just being a friend that you are. People don't know how much of a mentor you are.

With texting and you're constantly there for advice and any questions. You're just an amazing human being. And I thank you very much for everything that you've done for me. It really means a lot. My pleasure, man. Josh is easy to find on the internet, at Josh LaGianni. I mean, Instagram's your main jam.

Yeah. And Facebook too, right? Yeah, I like Facebook too. You're on them all. You're on them all, Twitter. But like you're- Facebook and Instagram. That's kind of my thing. That's a little OG out of you. Yeah, you know? Yeah, I like Facebook too. You're on them all on Twitter, but like you're- Facebook and Instagram. There's a little OG out of you.

That's kind of my thing. And if you can find the missing chins and compose some kind of eloquent letter, leave GoFundMe's out of it. Maybe he'll let you in. Yeah, yeah. And that's it, man. Is there anything about WellStart on the internet

if people wanna read about that? No, other than we're- I don't know when I'm putting this podcast up. Maybe it'll coincide with the launch. So let me know when that is. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I don't know exactly when the native app launch is. We're live right now on our website.

It behaves like an app on the phone when you use it at WellStart Health. It's like mobile optimized. What's the website for that? Wellstarthealth.com. You sound like you're not sure about that. No, it's 100%. Wellstart Health.

I got the logo on my garment, man. I'm like all in, man. I love it. I'm so pumped. All right, man. Until we meet again, you can take us out. Peace. Plants.

Yeah. I love it. What a love that guy is. He's a gift. That guy is a gift to humanity. I hope he inspires you as much as he inspires me. And if so, do me a couple favors. Go to joshlajani.com and read his manifesto there.

It's a blog post that he wrote quite some time ago that originally motivated me to reach out to him back in 2013. I was so impacted by it. Let him know what you thought of this conversation. You can find him on Twitter and Instagram, at joshlajani. He's also easily found on Facebook, where he spends a lot of time. And as always, check out the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com to expand your experience of today's conversation beyond your earbuds. If you are looking for nutritional guidance, please check out our meal planner at meals.richroll.com. You will find there thousands and thousands of plant-based

recipes, whole food plant-based recipes, everything's super customized based on a litany of personal preferences that you input. And with that, you get unlimited grocery lists, you get amazing customer support seven days a week from experts, and it even integrates with grocery delivery in most metropolitan areas. All of this is available for just $1.90 a week when you sign up for a year. So again, to learn more and to sign up, go to meals.richroll.com or click on Meal Planner on the top menu on my website. If you would like to support our work here on the podcast, there are a couple simple ways to do just that.

Tell your friends about it. Tell them about your favorite episode. Share the show on social media. Hit that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify or on YouTube or Google Podcasts. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. That's very impactful. And you can also support the show on Patreon at richroll.com forward slash donate. I want to thank everybody who helped put on the show today. Jason Camiello for audio engineering, production, show notes, interstitial music, Blake Curtis and Margo Lubin for video editing and graphics, David Kahn for sponsored relationships, and theme music, as always, by Analema. Thanks for the love, you guys. See you back here in a couple days with record industry exec,

judicial reform activist, and host of the Wrongful Conviction podcast, Jason Flom. This is a powerful one on the state of our prison industrial complex that I think you guys are gonna really dig. Until then, peace, plants, good food, running, exercise, self-care, service. Namaste. Thank you.