The Rich Roll Podcast - How To Be A Better Parent: A Primer On Mindful Parenting

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

I love being a dad. It’s been the greatest gift of my lifetime. But too often I grade myself in comparison to others and set myself against an idealized projection of what I imagine a perfect dad to be. While I do my best not to repeat yesterday’s mistakes and interrupt the misguided patterns I’ve inherited from past generations, I still wonder… How can I be the best parent I can be? This is the inquiry explored in today’s masterclass investigation, where I synthesize my thoughts with the most impactful and actionable advice from the parenting experts, psychologists, therapists, educators, and doctors who have graced the show over the years. If you are a wrangler of young humans trying to make the right moves or just want to better understand why kids think and behave as they do, then this deep dive is appointment listening. If the voices you hear speak to you, please consider going back to the original episodes to gain further insights from these amazing teachers. Many of the guests speaking about parenting have written valuable books that amplify their perspectives and philosophies. You can check out their respective episodes in the show notes. While I can’t offer you a prescription for perfect parenting, I hope this primer has given you some perspective on how to parent more consciously. My hope is that it serves you on your parenting journey. Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: LMNT: DrinkLMNT.com/RICHROLL FAHERTY BRAND: Fahertybrand.com/RICHROLL Timeline Nutrition: TimelineNutrition.com/RICHROLL ON: On.com/RICHROLL Roka: Roka.com/RICHROLL Babbel: Babbel.com/RICHROLL Peace + Plants, Rich

If your kid uses social media for more than three hours a day, they're at double or triple the risk of getting depression or anxiety. And I think the thing that's really hard for us as parents, our kids are probably going to go through some darkness. Oh my gosh, like the term does not do justice to how hard this is. We are investing everything in the project that is making these children excellent. And I could see that those who were overmanaged were lacking in agency. Overwhelmingly, all they want and all they need is for us to listen and be empathic. I really love being a dad. I really love being a dad.

And it may sound trite, but it truly has been the greatest gift of my lifetime. My kids have been my most profound teachers, and raising them has been a privilege I don't take lightly. But too often, I grade myself in comparison to others. I set myself against an idealized projection of what I imagine a perfect dad to be or what I witness super dads doing on social media every time I scroll. And while I do my best not to repeat yesterday's mistakes and also to interrupt all the misguided patterns that I've inherited, that we've all inherited by past generations, I still wonder, what are my blind spots? And how can I do better? How can I be the best parent I can be? Well, this is the terrain of today's investigation. My thoughts synthesized with the most impactful

and actionable advice from the parenting experts, the psychologists and therapists and educators and doctors who have graced the show over the years to provide an actionable primer on all things mindful parenting,

a starting point to begin or to reignite a lifelong journey to understand how to be a better parent. If you're a wrangler of young humans just trying to make the right moves, or maybe you just want to better understand why kids think and behave the way they do, then this deep dive is appointment listening. As always, you can find links to the full conversations for all those highlighted,

along with other useful resources, in the show notes at richroll.com. As parents, our number one goal, more often than not, is to protect our kids. We want to do everything in our power to set them up for future success, to save them from harm, to provide them with opportunities we didn't have, and to catch them when they fall. But as good-intentioned as this behavior is, the reality is that inserting ourselves too much over time

can have lasting, unintentionally negative impacts on our kids' lives. You know the word for this, helicopter parenting. It's easy to fall into the trap of believing we're helping and protecting our children when we're actually undermining their capacity to fend for themselves, undermining their ability to develop resilience or a healthy relationship with failure, or even ownership over the equation between output and outcome. It's hard to accept, but some of the most disappointing times of our kids' lives are the most important. We need to let them experience disappointment, sadness, and even pain so they can build resilience.

If we protect our kids from every negative emotion at all costs, we may be inadvertently depriving them of some of the most important experiences of their young lives. Former Dean of Freshman and undergraduate advising at Stanford University, as well as the author of the New York Times bestseller, "'How to Raise an Adult," Julie Lithgott Himes warns us of the negative consequences

of blocking your children from distress in all forms, particularly when we don't give them agency. When parents continuously step in to prevent their children from facing any hardship or challenge, they deny their children the opportunity to learn and the opportunity to grow from those experiences. Here's Julie. So we've done the thinking for them, the planning for them, the troubleshooting, the fixing,

the managing, the handling, all in furtherance of these outcomes we think lead to a successful life. And it's almost like we take our helicopter rotors and we lift them in the helicopter and arrive them at the future we have in mind. And then we can say, look, you've arrived, you're here. And then the kid is bewildered at the place of arrival because they haven't done the heavy lifting. They've certainly worked hard. It's not to say that kids aren't hardworking in this context, but they've been so over-managed and over-helped, they really are unfamiliar with their own selves. In my first book, How to Raise an Adult, I call it existential impotence, unfamiliar with the self. We treat our kids like they're our bonsai trees. You know, the bonsai is such an exquisite creation of the gardener. The gardener decides the direction in which that tree will grow, which branches will be clipped and which will

flourish and the shape of it. And it's a lovely creation, but at the end of the day, it is a possession of the gardener. It's something to be oohed and aahed over and people can come to a gardener and say, look what you've done. Aren't you amazing? And we need them to be glorious so that we can feel better about ourselves. And it's harmful. And it speaks to an unwellness in our psyche, in our spirit. How many of us are devoting countless hours to chauffeuring, concierging, helping with the homework, over-helping, outright doing the homework, planning and fixing and managing our kids' lives. And we have a primary partner over there in the wings.

And our relationship with that person is dwindling and diminishing and suffering because we're not watering that plant. We're not giving that relationship attention. The very relationship that might have created these children, you know, languishes because we are investing everything in the project that is making these children excellent so that we can feel that we have, you know, the right sort of accolades to boast about at a cocktail party. to boast about at a cocktail party. Julie goes on to say that instead of bonsai trees, we should think of our children as wildflowers, resilient, strong, and independent.

We have to let our children grow and flourish by allowing them to figure some things out on their own without constant, perfect pruning. So how do we strike that balance between protecting and guiding without overstepping into helicopter parenting? Well, Dr. Lisa DeMore contends this begins with providing a safe environment where they can make mistakes

and discover their unique path on their own. Lisa is a Yale-educated psychotherapist with a doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of Michigan who specializes in education and child development. She's the author of three New York Times bestsellers, Untangled, Under Pressure, and the emotional lives of teenagers. Here's Lisa on how we can protect our kids while also allowing them to build resilience. The way we view it in psychology is that distress is integral to human functioning. And for teenagers, and of course this is within limits, but for teenagers, distress is part of how

actually all of us navigate the world. You know, we know what feels good and what doesn't. And so we do, you know, more of the things that feel good, hopefully, and less of the things that, you know, are having negative consequences. And for teenagers, it is also growth-giving. It's actually profoundly growth-giving. When I think about the kids I've worked with clinically who have gone through something really painful, and I mean gone through it, been allowed to have the experience and find their way through, I've never seen maturation happen at so rapid a pace. And what I mean, there may be a kid who is confronted by a tragedy,

something really awful happens and it's extremely painful. And we would wish that it never happened, but if they're helped through it, you end up with teenagers who are philosophical and broad-minded in ways that you don't see usually at that age. Or if a teenager messes up, does something really dumb, right? Like cheats and gets caught and has to sit with the consequences at school and sit with the consequences at home. Those are the kids who in my practice are saying things to me like,

I never wanna feel this way again. Like I'm gonna organize myself around not having to feel this or this has made me think so much about the kind of person I want to be. And so I find myself as a psychologist right now, in some ways trying to do PR for distress, right? Like it has a hugely important place really in all of our lives. And then especially for teenagers, feeling it helps them grow, helps them navigate. And then knowing that they can find their way through,

developing skill sets for managing it is actually what allows them to function autonomously. It allows them to move away from us, go to places where they don't necessarily know that it's gonna go well. Because if they consider it, they think, well, if I go there and it doesn't go well, I can handle that.

Like I have it within myself to manage. Whereas, you know, to answer your question, kids who feel that they can only proceed in circumstances where they know they won't be uncomfortable or they could be guaranteed that it's going to go well, end up on these extraordinarily narrow paths, right? Because very little of life has that. Sure. So for me, I really think being able to accept distress and work one's way through it, for teenagers in particular, it's the keys to the kingdom. It is what lets them move freely into the world. And I think that one of the hardest things about raising a teenager is you actually cannot guarantee your teenager safety. Like there's nothing you can do to guarantee that your teenager will not find themselves in a position that's truly dangerous. That is so scary. I can say that both as a parent and as a psychologist who cares for kids.

I can say that both as a parent and as a psychologist who cares for kids. But I also know that fear is a terrible position from which to parent. The best gift we can give our kids, especially our teenagers, is to try to be a steady presence. You know, for them, you know, a failed test, you know, ruptured friendship, feels disastrous, like that's how they experience emotions. And they come home to us and they lay it in front of us. And the best gift we can give them is to be very empathic and very attentive to it, but not to react at that, at their level,

much less above it. I wanna underscore something Lisa just said. Fear is a terrible position from which to parent. When we overly focus on their protection, it can lead our kids to fear taking risks. So the goal is to make sure our kids are confident decision makers, that they know who they are and have the ability to exercise agency. And most importantly, they are and have the ability to exercise agency. And most importantly, that they have a safe, calm presence they can rely upon when things go awry. Because no matter what you do,

there's nothing that will stop your kids from experiencing distress and disappointment. But letting go of the reins is so much easier said than done, especially when we wanna keep our kids safe and give them a seamless path to success and happiness. Despite a world-class education and parents devoted to meeting my every need, I'm an example of someone who fumbled my way into adulthood, guilty of making countless avoidable mistakes and suffering far more than I needed to because my parents, in good faith, to be fair,

had pruned me into prioritizing academic and athletic success over understanding, knowing, and honoring myself. I simply was never taught how to be a conscious adult. I didn't have healthy mentors for this outside the home. Instead, fear of failure was my fuel. Approval was my drug. And achievement was confused with self-worth, my inherent value as a person, and my entitlement to love and acceptance. The result was a toxic brew that led me astray and has taken monumental efforts to heal. Our kids, like every other human being that has walked this earth, will fail. They'll mess up. They're going to make mistakes. But the key thing

to remember is this. Those mistakes will blossom into invaluable learning opportunities. One of the most important things we can do as parents is teach our kids to embrace failure. A perspective that echoes throughout the work of Jessica Leahy, an educator and author of the New York Times bestselling book aptly titled The Gift of Failure. Times bestselling book aptly titled The Gift of Failure. In this one study, there's this woman who looked at autonomy supportive parenting versus directive parenting. And parents who direct their kids and are constantly telling them, okay, now do this, now do this, and giving them every step along the way, those kids are less able to sit and be frustrated. Those kids are less able to sort

of wrestle with challenge and they're way more likely to give up before the task is finished. That's important because when we start talking about competence as opposed to confidence, confidence is sort of the way we want kids to feel. We want them to feel like they're great, they're great, they're wonderful, they're smart, they're talented. We want them to have, you know, these force fields of wonderfulness around them. Competence is so much more important for learning, though, because competence is about having tried something one way, had it mess up, and then they try it another way. And, you know, having learned some tools from the first time that didn't work and then reacting positively and trying to move forward with new solutions. And kids and that that's actually as a term, it's called desirable difficulties. There was a fantastic book called Make It Stick where you can read all about that. Difficulties are one of the most important teaching tools we have, not only because it teaches competence, but because it actually helps our brain encode information better and for longer periods of time and more thoroughly into our long-term memory. just incapable of handling frustrations and is impatient and is scared of making a mistake, scared of failing, that kid's less teachable. That kid is going to learn less in my classroom

than a kid who can be frustrated, a kid who's willing to take the challenge problems and not afraid of looking quote-unquote dumb for a minute when they don't know the answer. Those kids are way more teachable, and I love teaching those kids. Embrace failure. Create a safe space for kids to fall back on. Teach them to take appropriate risks. Give them responsibility and stop focusing on perfect parenting. These lessons are powerful, on perfect parenting. These lessons are powerful, but of course, by no means are they easy. For further elaboration on salient parenting strategies to implement these ideas, I again encourage listening to the full conversations with the experts quoted so far and reading their respective books, all of which are linked in the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com.

Now, assuming agreement with the wildflower approach suggested by Julie Lithgott Himes, I suspect exceptions come to mind. There are certainly circumstances where a more hands-on approach is required, where a child or a teenager is just not equipped to handle a situation on their own, be it due to the level of danger

or perhaps their lack of maturity. One such circumstance is the hellscape of social media. Today's parents are not only navigating kids through their adolescence, which is difficult enough, but we're also now faced with the seemingly impossible task of guiding them safely through the labyrinth of the online world. A scenario without historical precedent in the history of humankind, the health and social implications of which are only beginning to be understood, and something

I admit to struggling with myself, and like so many, have struggled to help my teens navigate. So where do we begin to understand these social media giants, and what do we know concerning the effects of social media on teens? But first, a quick break for a word from our partners. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find

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go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. So what do we know concerning the effects of social media on teens? Here's former product manager on the Facebook civil misinformation team, Francis Haugen, who in 2021 blew the whistle on Facebook for prioritizing their own profits over public safety and putting young people's lives at risk. If your kid uses social media for more than three hours a day, they're at like double or triple the risk of getting depression or anxiety. The average kid in the United States uses these products for three and a half hours a day.

30% of kids say they're on until midnight or later most weeknights, most school nights, right? So sleep deprivation for those who have not like dug into literature, it puts kids at big risks of academic deficits, which stays with them for the rest of their life. It puts them at higher risk for mental health issues, not just depression and anxiety, but also things like bipolar or schizophrenia. Increases the rates of substance use, uppers because they're tired, downers because they're depressed. And rates of death from accidents. So like not just automotive accidents, but like all cause accident rates. Now, Facebook would come out and say, we acknowledge what a large role we play in kids' lives.

We're gonna start publishing a very simple set of data each week. It's gonna take us 15 minutes to do like once. And after that, I'll just update over time. And we're gonna say how many kids are online at 10, 11, midnight, 1, 2, 3 a.m. And we're going to say, how many kids are online at 10, 11, midnight, 1, 2, 3 a.m.? And we're going to do it every week. If they were doing that,

if they were really serious about these problems, you know, it doesn't violate anyone's privacy, but we'd be able to see, did those numbers move when they launched those things? And as long as they refuse to release even basic data, like we should consider all of these moves marketing. We are running a national experiment

on our children. And I think if more people thought about it that way and said, you know, we're running a national experiment on our kids.

Like what say should the public have in that experiment? I think we'd have very different conversations. Yeah. These statistics are absolutely terrifying, to say the least. And all reason why in May of 2023,

the Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy, issued an advisory on the effects social media use has on youth mental health. Here's the Surgeon General. on the effects social media use has on youth mental health. Here's the Surgeon General. Even though technically 13 is the age at which many platforms say people can start using them, about 40% of kids eight through 12 are using social media. So those rules are not being enforced adequately either.

So you're right. I think the concern is great here. And this is one of the reasons I issued this advisory. It was in response to a question that parents kept asking me, which is, is social media safe for my kids? And putting all this together, my two most important takeaways were, number one, we don't have enough evidence to say it's in fact safe.

And two, there's in fact growing evidence that it's harming many of our children. And that statistic is one of those data points. And I think this is just for me a cautionary tale also of how we have to be thoughtful about how we embrace and integrate new technology into our lives. It's not that we should push away technology. Look, I'm a believer in technology.

I use technology. I spent seven years building a technology company. I'm a believer in technology. But it's ultimately in how it's designed and how we use it that ultimately impacts how it affects our lives. And I think particularly when it comes to our kids, I think you can judge a society

by how well it cares for and supports and protects its children. I think this is too important for us to get distracted from. Every year for a child is an extraordinarily important time of development for them. Our kids' childhood is happening right now. We can't say, come back in five years and we'll fix this. We've got to do that because every day, I'm getting stories from parents who are telling me about how their child was harmed,

how their child was exposed to content that urged them to take their own life or to harm themselves, how they were harassed, exposed to racist remarks, to misogyny online. You hear this again and again and again from parents who are saying, why is this happening? Why isn't someone doing something about it? Why doesn't someone have my back?

We've put the entire burden of managing this new, rapidly evolving technology on the shoulders of parents who never grew up with it. That's not fair. Or on young people who don't have the brainpower or skills to rebut its addictive lures. That's right. And what that basically is, is it's pitting the best developers and program designers in the world against parents and kids. That's not a fair fight. And that's why we've got to have the backs of kids and parents on this issue. And again, I can't think of something that's more important for us to address. Look,

when it comes to mental health more broadly, with kids, I've at length spoken about the importance of us improving access to treatment. We got to do that. We're investing more in the last two years in that. That's a good step forward. There's more to do there. But if all we did was focus on treatment and didn't address these deeper root causes like loneliness and isolation, like social media, which are impacting the mental health of youth, that we just can't keep up with the demand. You know, universities are, compared to 10 years ago, many of them have hired double, triple, in some cases quadruple the number of mental health counselors,

and they still can't keep up with demand. So we've got to get at the root causes of some of this, and this is why addressing technology and loneliness are so critical. the root causes of some of this. And this is why addressing technology and loneliness are so critical. What's even more terrifying is that this technology is still in its infancy. Once again, here is Lisa DeMoore on the dangers of the algorithmic nature of social media and what we can do to help our kids and teens form healthier relationships

with everyone's favorite appendage, the phone. The thing that made me nervous and continues to make me very nervous about social media is the algorithm-driven nature of what kids are presented. And so that anything a kid, I think most people know this, but I think it's still worth articulating actually anything a kid or that we spends time looking at or searches for or likes or comments on the algorithms driving these social media platforms will pick that data up and then present them more of that in the aim of getting them to not be able to look away. And what I think about with those algorithms are norms,

that teenagers are very vulnerable to the norms in their environment. And so when I think back to the eating disorders finding, where we just saw so many eating disorders in the pandemic, there's a pretty decent consensus that probably what drove a lot of that is that we have kids who are home, they have tons of time on their hands, they have tons of like energy to do something. So they do a little searching for fitness or weight control or whatever. The algorithms pick this up and start flooding their feeds with imagery related to dieting or advice on dieting. And in the absence of leaving the home, doing other things, looking at other people,

this becomes the norm. And it no longer seems strange to ultra diet, do things that are actually really, really dangerous. And so when I worry about social media, what I worry about is that it can shift the norms for kids and change what they think to be typical. And so I think, first of all, none of us should have our phones in our rooms. I don't have my phone in my room. And so one thing a parent might do is to say, okay, we're making a family-wide rule. It's all coming out for all of us. And of course, the teenager will be like, no, say, okay, we're making a family-wide rule. Like it's all coming out for all of us. And of course the teenager will be like, no, no, no, no, no. And the parent might consider saying, look, it's bad for our sleep. It's bad for your sleep. Sleep is the glue that

holds us together. For us to take it out of our room and not ask you to do the same, it'd be like we got in the car and we put on our seatbelts, but we don't ask you to put on yours. So you can make that case. The other thing to try, and again, I- Does that work? Well, I'm offering these humbly. I'm offering things because I actually, it means enough to me that I don't want to just write it off. Yeah, yeah. I think the other thing to try is to say, let's just do a two to three week experiment.

Like sometimes teenagers will agree to an experiment. Like let's take it out of your room for a couple weeks and here's a clock radio to replace all of the things that you feel that it does. And then see if after a couple weeks, there's not some agreement around this. Here's the other thing. Teenagers like to know the why. And this is again, back to the bullshit detector, like they like to know the why. Here's the why. We have data showing that you do not actually get as good a sleep in a room with technology in it. oblivionally attached to our devices, that if they are present, we are deploying a degree of energy to not engage with them. So personally, I found it insanely helpful for my sleep to keep my phone as far away from me as possible in the hours leading up to and including bedtime. But while my older kids have come to appreciate this practice themselves, let's just say it's been more than a struggle

with our teenagers. Compounding the degree of difficulty is the fact that every year, new technology comes out, more savvy than ever at capturing and maintaining attention, and the fight to resist becomes even steeper. For the best of us, it's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. For the young developing mind, it's game over. It's just not feasible or necessarily advisable to raise a Luddite.

So what else can we do as parents, educators, and mentors to raise kids to have a healthy or at least a healthier relationship with the digital world? Once again, here's the Surgeon General. I'll tell you, honestly, this is hard. These devices are so intuitive for kids. My daughter, when she was in preschool, came home one day and asked my wife and I if we could post a picture on a social media platform for her. And we're like, what? How do you even know about this platform?

How do you know that pictures should go? We were flabbergasted, but her preschool classmates were talking about posting pictures on social media. So we know we have to be vigilant there. And part of this for us is about protecting time without devices. So we have a curated list, a sort of set of videos that we will allow them to watch in small doses from time to time when we're on an airplane, for example, or here and there. Things that have some sort of educational or

cultural value to them, things that don't have harmful content in them. So we try to limit how much time they spend there. But we also know that as they get older, that we have made the decision that we want to delay their use of social media until they're well past middle school and potentially beyond that. That's not easy to do. It's incredibly hard. But one thing we know is that it'll be easier if we can do it with other parents. And this is something that I've now heard more and more from parents of kids who have older kids, is that this is really tough to do on their own. But when they find one parent, two parents, who are willing to make the same decision for their child, whether that's delaying the use of social media

or whether that's creating tech-free zones in their child's life, like not using social media or technology in the half hour before they go to bed and throughout the night or around mealtimes, it becomes a lot easier when you're doing this with other parents. It's still not simple because over the years,

I think largely this technology has spread like wildfire without any real guardrails to limit children's use and to healthy use. And so what you're seeing is that it's become this expectation that every child is on it. In some cases, schools are even assigning homework that requires the use of devices and in some cases of some social media platforms. that requires the use of devices and in some cases of some social media platforms. So we have to pull back a bit and get to a place where we can have tech-free zones where parents can work together

and support one another in delaying use. And I think when we're planning to do that until one, we feel that our child is actually developmentally ready to use social media and two, until real safeguards have been put in place, and I mean specifically safety standards, like what we did for automobiles that we are now calling for in our advisories to be applied to social media. And until there's data that actually tells us that these platforms are in fact sufficiently safe for our kids. We don't let our kids take

medicines that aren't studied to be safe and effective. We don't put them in car seats that haven't been certified to be safe. Yet we're having them use these platforms, which are profoundly changing how they see themselves and others with scan data to reassure us at all about safety. Yeah, it's a huge problem. I'll be interested to see how that progresses for you

as they age. It's almost like an asymptotic'll be interested to see how that progresses for you as they age. It's almost like an asymptotic curve. Like with every year, the pressure to get the device to be online in that way increases exponentially. And it's a hard problem because on some level, fluency on those platforms is a gateway or kind of a key to having a social life, right?

If you can't be a Luddite, you would be a social pariah amongst your peers and your classmates as a young person who's on the outside. It's sort of like the kid who doesn't get picked for the kickball team is the kid who's not part of the Snapchat group chat or whatever it is, right?

So that complicates it from a parenting point of view. Rich, can I just say that there's two interesting things that I've learned recently. One is that as I've talked to more and more students, like middle school and high school students who are actually building movements to actually get off social media and get offline, in the beginning when their parents told them, hey,

you can't use this until later, they fought it and they were angry. But over time, they actually came to feel a lot better because they saw themselves less subject to a lot of the anxieties and struggles that their peers were going through as they, you know, engage with bullying or harassment online or constant comparison with other people. But the other thing is, as that community grows and builds, those kids aren't alone, right? And there are more parents I also encounter who are looking for what we use to term dumb phones, right? Phones that don't have the capability

of having social media, but have the ability to text, to look up, to make phone calls, to use maps. So good for safety, good for communication with friends, but don't necessarily subject you to all of the other potential adverse effects of social media. So I think there are additional pathways

that we have to build here, but you're absolutely right that it's not simple. And there's a transition challenge here, which is why I think it's so important that we do this together with the support of other parents. I know my wife and I can't do this alone. If we were left up to us alone, we'd probably fail at some point.

And we also, I think for adolescents in particular, just have to recognize that they're not just younger adults. They're fundamentally at a different stage of brain development and social development where they are more prone than adults to social comparison and to social influence. And so you put all of this together and you recognize that what a lot of students are telling educators is true, which is that they may see the challenge,

but in some cases, they need a little help and support in creating the environment where they get an opportunity for them to actually separate. And when they do and experience that, a lot of times they want to build on it, just like the 20-year-olds that you're talking about. And that's the thing that's part of the reason why we're seeing more communities of kids coming together to say, hold on, we're tired of this. We want a different path. That's not to say we're eschewing technology and putting it at the side. We want to use technology responsibly, but we don't want it to rule our lives. Ideally, delay a child's immersion into social media for as long as possible. And when kids finally are granted access to devices, it's incumbent upon us to immediately set clear ground rules. Like, for example, initially limiting their functionality to basic communication like texting.

And then, and this is really important, following through by actually enforcing those rules, something I admit to having been less than stellar about. If your child already has a device or social media of any kind, the first real step in helping them navigate that responsibility safely is awareness and communication. The more you understand what kind of content they're being exposed to, consuming, and curating, the better your ability to initiate informed conversations. To create open communication and maintain it requires a suspension of that impulse we all have to approach transgressions punitively. Instead, what we have to do is lead with curiosity because young ones, teens in particular, simply are not going to open up if they feel judged or worse, unsafe.

As parents, we should aim to guide our children in developing discernment, a critical eye towards not just social media content, but towards every situation they will face in life. With social media in particular, that means teaching them to discern carefully crafted digital images from reality and understanding the potential implications of constant connectivity. It's less about protecting our kids from the online world and much more about teaching them how to navigate it responsibly and safely. Because again, the digital age is here to stay. Accomplishing this, of course, always goes back to creating a safe environment conducive to open communication. If your kid is shut down, it's probably because you have created, consciously or otherwise, an environment that doesn't feel safe. And it's incumbent upon you, not your kid, to change that.

you, not your kid, to change that. But even in the best case scenario, the truth is that all we can do is give them the tools they need. And then, and this is the really hard part, we need to trust them. Sit tight. We have a lot more great stuff on the way. But first, a quick break for a word from our partners. When my eldest daughter turned 13, suddenly everything I did irritated her. No matter what I said, whether it was something that mirrored her budding personality or something that diverged from it, absolutely everything annoyed her. As parents who adore their kids and remember how sweet they were when they were small, moments like these can be quite painful. They can be gut-wrenching even. And I think we all understand that individuation is a healthy and necessary

aspect of growing up. And yet, it still does feel personal, even when you know that it isn't. And so the challenge, the Jedi approach, to coin my wife's metaphor, is extreme neutrality. is extreme neutrality. To depersonalize everything and not allow any of this to impact your emotional state of being so that you're not reactive in these situations and instead, totally equanimous. But change is inherently stressful and no change is more pronounced

than the transformation from childhood to adolescence. So, where do we start in better understanding this crazy rollercoaster ride? Interestingly, psychologists mark the beginning of adolescence much earlier than we might suspect, at age 11. The onset of puberty brings significant changes, both visible and internal, impacting the brain's functioning and leading to a redistribution of power to the emotional centers. As a result, that sweet child who reliably laughed at your jokes and loved your company may suddenly seem distant and moody. This, unfortunately, is not only normal, it's necessary. Adolescence is a time of individuation.

It's a healthy part of growing up. We all experienced it, and despite the painful moments that this stage can bring, it's important for us as parents to detach ourselves emotionally from what's happening and understand that our teen's behavior isn't a personal attack. But trust me, achieving this level of detachment is not easy. If you can manage it even 20% of the time, you're doing exceptionally well. With this in mind, I want to share a powerful perspective shift courtesy of teen whisperer and behavioral expert, Josh Shipp. While a kid is trying to become a teen and get that independence,

you know, they begin to push away the parent. And the way I always think about this is kind of like a roller coaster. Meaning, you know, when you get in the roller coaster seat, they put like the lap bar down in your lap. And if you're like me, you kind of grab that bar and like wiggle the crap out of it. See if it's actually locked in. Yeah, I'm just, I'm a little OCD in general, but also like, all right, I want to make sure like, you know, this is safe and this is secure. And I, and I wiggle it and I push it and I prod it,

not hoping it will give leading to my inevitable death, but I push it and I prod it and I test it, hoping it will hold. And kids who are going into the teen years are going to do the exact same thing to you. And they're not pushing and prodding and testing, hoping that you will give, but rather hoping that you will hold, you know, hoping that at this time in their life when so many things are uncertain and so many things are unsure that you're certain and that you're sure. There's no denying that parenting is a demanding job. And as many parents can attest, the teen years can present some, let's just call them unique challenges. So how do we maintain a meaningful connection

with our teenagers, especially when they start to withdraw emotionally? A powerful mantra that I have relied upon and that has comforted me more times than I can count is this, it's your job to love your kids, but it's not your kid's job to love you. This cannot be overemphasized. So let me say it again. It's your job to love your kids, but it's not your kid's job to love you. Do not look to your kids to meet your emotional needs.

Do not look to your kids to meet your emotional needs. It's simply not their responsibility to make you feel okay. Period. I want you to think long and hard about if and when you have done this in the past. Journal those occasions. Develop an awareness of what triggers that impulse. Catch yourself when you find yourself doing it and stop it. In terms of creating and maintaining open communication,

focus on asking questions rather than lecturing. Lecturing leads to tuning out. Questions, on the other hand, promote critical thinking, and they open a window into your teens' perspectives and beliefs. Instead of imposing your views on them, encourage them to express their own thoughts and develop their own viewpoints. For example, instead of telling them what they did wrong and what they should have done, this is every parent's impulse, instead, replace that impulse with these three words. Tell me more. Tell me more. You may not like the answers they give, but I gotta tell you, it's a lot better to know what they think than to be kept in the dark. It's essential to remember that as your child grows up,

your role shifts. It shifts from control to influence. By asking questions and fostering an environment of open communication, you not only build trust, you help your teenager to think critically and make wise decisions independently, skills that will serve them well throughout their life. Once again, this is Josh

Shipp. Think of yourself as a coach and think about what a good coach does. Coach prepares the athletes before the game. Let's run drills. Let's go through scenarios. What's that? You're being bullied at school emotionally. You know, some kid's being, you know, jerked to you verbally. Let's go through that.

You know, let's talk about how you're currently responding. Hmm. Do you think that kind of perpetuates the situation? Do you think they're getting a rise out of that? Like they like to see you snap or cry or yell or whatever. Like, let's go through the different scenarios you're going to be in just like a coach does before the game. Let's run the drills. Let's go through the stuff. Great job here. You know,

watch that. That's, there's the thing that's going to get you. After the game, the coach, great job on this. Let's work on this. Let's review. Here's what went well. Here's what didn't. But during the game, it's all on them. You know, we can't step on the court. That's not how it works. And I think that's really the game when we talk about influence versus control. That's what it looks like to have a team is that you're not out there on the court. You're not out there on the field. You don't, sadly, have control, but you have influence, which means even if you can't control in that moment, because you're not there or they're at school or they're out with friends or they're out God knows where, you do have that influence before and after to try to train them to execute appropriately.

During the teen years, by far, the single most powerful force for adolescent mental health is a strong relationship with caring adults. But it's not just about caring. It's about knowing how to channel that care in a way that resonates with them. It's about meeting them more than halfway, not constantly imposing our expectations or judgments on them. Guilt and fear don't make us better parents, but you know what does? Understanding, patience, and of course, love.

Especially when it comes to discipline. By by far one of the most challenging aspects of parenting. To further complicate matters, our children's actions often draw the watchful, judgmental eyes of the public. We're scrutinized, our parenting styles dissected, and our actions critiqued. The fear of disapproval, coupled with our own confusion, often paralyzes us, leaving us feeling helpless and stressed. KJ Del Antonio, a former New York Times reporter and author who has dedicated her career to studying and understanding family dynamics, is quite wise when it comes to navigating the turbulence of discipline. Rightwise when it comes to navigating the turbulence of discipline. So one of the pieces of research that I did myself was to work with a professor at Fordham University and we created an academically peer-reviewed appropriate, I would call it a survey, but I think there's a better word for it, study in which we got a thousand people who were,

you know, demographically reflective of the United States, not a thousand of my closest Facebook friends, to respond to questions around happiness and parenting. And we used the academic measure for happiness, which is satisfactory. It's like, it's called efficacy, and it's how good do you think you are at this thing. And so one of the things we had on there, as well as lots of questions about, well, how do you decide what your kids have to eat, and how do you feel about how much homework they have, and how do you feel about your involvement? We had this open-ended question. We actually had two, and one was, what do you like most? And the other one was, what do you like least? And you could

just write. So many people responded with some variation of the word discipline that I went back and read through our survey to make sure we weren't secretly cuing them. Like, did we use the word discipline 46 times or something? There was nothing. I couldn't find anything. About a third of the answers accumulated around this idea of, I hate disciplining my kids. I hate making my kids follow the rules. I hate it when my kids do something wrong and I have to punish them. I hate having to come up with consequences. Like there was this real consensus that that was the thing. And I really think that if you had surveyed our parents, they would not have said that. I

don't know what they would have said, but I don't think it would have been that. So that was really interesting. It didn't bother them to discipline. No. Right. So what do you make of that? I mean, what does that mean? Well, my theory is that one of the things that's hard is that we are expected to have disciplined kids who behave in public spaces and, you know, act like disciplined kids. But there's no consensus anymore on how we're supposed to get there. When our parents were parenting and when we were being raised,

there was this more authoritative culture, authoritarian culture, where the idea was, if your child does something wrong, there is a consequence, and that will teach your child not to do the wrong thing. Actually, that didn't necessarily work, and it's got its problems, but it was a thing. Like, there was an expectation. So, when your child didn't do the right thing, you knew what you were going to do. You know, you were going to ground them, or you were going to take away the television, or you were going to, you know, not let them go to the dance. You knew. But now, we don't really have an agreement around that. Now, it's sort of, well, you know, not let them go to the dance. You knew. But now we don't really have an agreement around that. Now it's sort of, well, you know, do you have a conversation with them? Is this a learning experience? Do you try to, you know, do you try to talk to them? What works for your

kid? And that's actually, I mean, it's a better space. But it's confusing. But it's confusing. It's upsetting. And if you, well, I have a kid who's tough and who has emotional challenges. And one of the things that we discovered for you to impose some form of, you know, terrible consequence and, you know, and would observe us sort of just standing there and watching. And it feels terrible. You know, everyone around you expecting, sort of waiting for you to do something and you knowing that the something that they, that your best choice is to ride this out. But maybe it's the right thing for you. So anyway, I think that makes that lack of a consensus around what we are supposed to do and what we're expected to do and what the people around us will approve of our doing makes that

a really stressful thing. Yeah. And so we second guess every move that we make. Yeah. You know, we just don't have an answer. As KJ alluded to, it's important to remember that there's no one-size-fits-all solution. What works for one child might not work for another. This has been the case in my own personal experience. The usual consequences of bad behavior backfired with our most emotional and strong-willed child. It took some time, but I realized that the best course of action with this person was to simply ride it out to let the storm pass and talk about it with them later when we both weren't emotionally charged. The ability to pause in these tough moments takes superhuman amounts of patience. I try to constantly remind myself that these tough moments aren't the end of the world, because let's be honest, the ultimate goal

isn't to raise perfectly disciplined children. It's to foster emotional resilience, to equip them with the tools they need to face the world with confidence. Once again, let's hear from teen whisperer Josh Shipp. To parent a teen well, you need to do two things, consistent encouragement and consistent consequences. At the end of the day, if you can do both of those things consistently, day, if you can do both of those things consistently, your kid's going to be fine. Not perfect, not without issue, not without, you know, fault or flaw or whatever. They're still going to be human. But for the most part, you will have an independent, responsible, caring young person on your hands at the end of that. And with most parents that I see that I've worked with, they tend to err on being really,

really good at one or the other, but not so much both. So, you know, sometimes we can be in the media and such very harsh on parents that sort of coddle their kids. And we can say, oh, you're raising entitled kids and don't you realize what you're doing? But that so often comes from a good place of like they want to be encouraging and maybe they weren't encouraged as a child. And it was like a very sort of insanely strict like home with all tough and no tender. And so they're like, well, I'm not going to make that mistake again. Right, they're compensating in the other direction. Yeah, and so there has to be that encouragement, but there also has to be consistent consequences. And the consequences side can sometimes be the thing that's tricky, because to really do it well,

the consequences need to be premeditated, predetermined. The entire family needs to be on the same page, not at the time of war, but the time before war. Like meaning before- Because once you're in the war, you're reactive and you're impulsive and emotional, and suddenly you're saying things that you didn't sort of plan out ahead of time, and that creates inconsistencies. Right. You flip in or you flip out, you know, depending on your personality type, like you either snap and the punishment is too harsh, or you say things, you look back at it and go, oh, that was so stupid. I wish I wouldn't have said that. That could cause some kind of pain or whatever. Or you flip in because, you know,

you're not sure what to do. You're exhausted from your day, the stuff going on in your own life. You don't have a game plan ahead of time. So you just flip in and you go, yeah, it's not a big deal or it's not something I really need to worry about. If you're feeling overwhelmed by the prospect of disciplining your children, you're not alone. Every parent grapples with this challenge. They second guess their decisions and sometimes it just feels like we're failing and failing and failing again. Here's Lisa DeMoor's take. So when we look at the research and when we distill all of it on like what kids need at home, it's two things. They need warmth and they need structure.

So I think you can actually bring both. So say a kid does something really that they should not have done. You can have the structure of saying, all right, that comes with consequences, right? You know, it's a breach of trust. We gotta be able to trust you to let you go out and about. So you will be hanging out with us

for the next couple of weekends. And then the warmth can come and be like, what happened? Like, that's so not like you. It's not an either or. Right. And I would just say, you know, if parents are like, where am I supposed to be in all of this?

If they just keep going back to that idea, you wanna be warm. They wanna, you wanna feel, you want your kids to feel that you both love them and also actually like them. And you wanna have structure, that there should be a predictability to family life that the rules should make sense that the rules should be enforced that kids are going to know

what's going to happen and kids do like rules teenagers do like rules they don't like loosey goosey adults um i think all the time about moments in my practice where a teenager would float in front of me something like um oh you you know, we were over at Susie's house and Susie's mom will buy for us. And they put it out in this way, like, you know, and I would go, really? And they go, I know, it's so weird. I don't know why she does that.

And I've learned that they'll often present something kind of neutrally to like check to see how you respond. And even when they've seemed to be neutral to like positive about it, if I've stayed with my gut and been like, what? They're like, thank you. They're so glad. Here's the thing about teenagers. They are like so able to detect dishonesty and hypocrisy, like so much better than at any point in life, like better than kids, better than adults.

And they really, really respect honesty. Like they really respect it. And so sometimes if I'm doing an intake with a kid who's in my office because they've gotten themselves in trouble with drinking or something like that, I will say, are you worried about your drinking? Like that's usually how I'll start by asking. And sometimes kids will say, actually, yes, you know, and then we're off to one conversation.

And sometimes they'll say, no, or I don't know. And I will say, I don't know yet how I feel about your drinking. I'm just going to keep you posted. But based on what you're telling me, I'm not so sure that this is working for you or that this is safe, what you're describing. And I'm amazed by how accepting they are of that. Like they would so much rather you play your cards face up, even if they don't like your cards, than have it seem like you're bluffing. It's okay to accept that you won't always have the answers. And I want you to really hear that. It is okay to be uncertain. Use these moments as learning experiences

for both you and your children. As difficult as it is, don't let societal expectations dictate your parenting style. Again, each child is unique and requires a unique approach. So don't feel pressured to conform to the norm. And whatever happens, remember, it's not the end of the world. Our children's mistakes aren't life-threatening. They're learning experiences that will help them grow into resilient, confident individuals. And finally, remember the importance of self-care, because at the end of the day, if you're not taking care of yourself and your own personal needs, it's really going to

be exceptionally harder for you to care for your child and their needs. and their needs. Unfortunately, our society often commends the sacrificial parent. It's as if we're socially wired to believe that a good parent is one who relentlessly sacrifices for their children, often to their own detriment. While we are hardwired to prioritize our children's needs over our own, this selflessness often leaves us drained, leaves us unfulfilled, or worse, blaming our children for our own unmet needs. ourselves, when there are lunches to pack, homework to help with, and endless loads of laundry to do. But in reality, our well-being directly impacts our ability to parent effectively, our ability to communicate well, and to maintain that all-too-important equanimity in the face of stress and conflict. Yet, even as we discuss this, I couldn't help but notice a twinge of guilt creeping in, because after all, isn't it almost sacrilegious to even consider our own happiness in the face of our children's needs? Isn't our role as parents to bear that brunt of sacrifice and

selflessness for their sake? Well, KJ D'Antonia has a few thoughts on this. It's actually much better for them to see the adults in their lives having a productive, happy, pleasant, joyful experience. Otherwise, how are they going to learn to do that? But this is our time, right? We've got 20 plus years of raising our families and being with them and being all together in that same house and sort of having this experience of being a family. I just want us to make it great for everybody. So one of my mantras is that you can be happy when your kids are not. And that definitely makes some people kind of go, whoa. Yeah, it makes people nervous.

Like, a little step back there. Wait. No, I can't. I can only be as happy as my unhappiest kid, right? That's the saying. I can't be happy when they're not. But, you know, let's sort of, let's talk this, let's parse this out. So, if you're the kid and things are going wrong for you, you know, like you didn't get invited to the birthday party and you're 11 and your mom is losing her mind because you didn't get invited to the birthday party.

A couple of things are happening. First of all, you're like, whoa, maybe this is a big deal. I mean, I was thinking it was an 11-year-old birthday party, but maybe it's huge. Secondly, our kids don't actually want us to be unhappy. I mean, all right, sometimes it feels like they do, especially at two o'clock in the morning or whatever, but they really don't. So here's your child going, hmm, when I tell my mom that things like that happen, she gets really upset. Maybe I shouldn't tell her. Or, oh, my dad got really, you know, like when I didn't make the team, it really freaked him out.

So maybe like, maybe I should either pretend it doesn't matter to me or not try out because like I don't like to upset my parents. So those are some unintentional consequences that they are feeling. you know, our kids don't need the burden of our happiness on top of theirs. Because we are worthy of putting time into ourselves and making our own decisions about like sort of how we want to spend Saturday and where we want to go for vacation. And even what we want to have for dinner, it doesn't have to revolve around somebody else, whether that's your kids or your parents or anything, or I'm sorry, not your parents, your partner or anything. It's just, I feel like, I talked to this great expert, Rick Hansen, you probably know him. He's a neuropsychologist. He's the author of Hardwired for Happiness. And he's written a lot about how

human brains are really kind of, they're wired to look for the bad stuff, right? Because bad stuff is dangerous. And we got to look for those tigers. We got to remember where the tigers are. And his idea is that the more time we spend soaking in the good stuff, the more we can train our brains not to freak out about imaginary tigers because there aren't that many. But the point, the reason I'm sort of telling that story is that at some point he said to me, you know, sometimes I feel like Americans are afraid to be happy. And that really soaked in for me. Like, I don't want to be afraid to be happy. I want to go for it. I want to like grab all the happy that I can. And that doesn't mean, you know, everybody else out of my way, I'm going to get my own happy. It means, you know, let's build something that's wonderful for all of us.

Ultimately, being a happier parent is all about our mindset. It's about how we choose to look at our experiences, how we interact with our kids, and what we choose to pay attention to. We can make a conscious decision to focus on the moments of joy and happiness, even in the mundane routines of daily life. As K.J. aptly put it, a significant part of being happier is about choosing to pay attention to the things that bring us happiness.

Being a parent isn't about achieving perfection. It's about nurturing our children. It's about guiding them through life's challenges. And most importantly, being happy. After all, happiness isn't just the destination. It truly is the journey. Whether you're a parent, a guardian, a teacher, or simply someone who interacts with children on a daily basis, your happiness influences those around you. Kids pick up on our moods and our emotions, often mirroring them. If we radiate joy and

positivity, they are likely to do the same. It is in this vein that parenting offers a huge challenge and a gift. It pushes us to be the best, most authentic version of ourselves more than any other experience in life. We have a duty to lead by example and to be mindful about the messages we convey and the values we embody. It's about proving that it's possible to live a fulfilling, successful, and happy life while also staying true to who you are and what you believe in. Because in the end, the most powerful message we can impart to our children is the importance of being yourself. Today's Masterclass was packed with a battery of resources, and my hope is that they serve you on your parenting journey.

While I can't offer you a prescription for parenting, I hope this primer has given you some perspective on how to parent more consciously. A reminder that links to the full episodes for each of the individuals excerpted today can be found in the show notes at richroll.com. And if you want to check out our past masterclass episodes, those too are linked in this episode's show notes and available at richroll.com or your favorite streaming platform. Thank you for spending this time with me and my guests. I hope you found it both helpful and instructive. Until next time, peace, love, namaste. Thank you.