The Rich Roll Podcast - How To Be ‘Self-Full': Co-Dependency, Navigating Fear & Connecting With Who You Really Are

Episode Date: July 2, 2015

Time to step it up. I am excited to announce that today marks my commitment to henceforth deliver two episodes of the RPP per week. Each week, from today forward I will post the show every Sunday night (as usual) plus every Wednesday night (late night Pacific Standard Time). Like today, sometimes it will be a Q&A episode; other times it will be the typical one-on-one guest format. Perhaps some of them will be topic-specific mini-sodes. Time will tell. To kick off this new and exciting growth phase, Julie and I are back with another installment of Ask Me Anything — a twist on my typical format where we answer questions submitted by you, the listener. I absolutely love this format, primarily because it connects me more deeply and authentically with the global community of people who enjoy the show. Because community is truly what it's all about. It's been an exciting time for us. In the last few months we launched The Plantpower Way and have been on the road spreading the word. Recently returned from an incredibly fruitful trip to New York City, Julie and I share a little behind the scenes and catch up on where things are headed with the podcast and our commitment to wellness advocacy. Then the conversation turns to listener submitted inquiries. A conversation that explores: * Substance Abuse, Co-Dependency in Relationships * The ‘Self-Full’ Mandate * Our perspective on Plant Medicine Ceremonies * Strategies to Uncover, Address & Conquer Fear * Connecting With The Authentic Self Within * Adding Site Resources & Community Forum * The Importance of Good Deeds The show concludes with I'm Here Now, written and performed by Julie (aka SriMati), accompanied by our sons Tyler & Trapper Piatt. Thank you everyone who submitted the 100's of questions we reviewed. If we didn't get to yours (obviously chances are we didn't), don't be shy & keep them coming. Until we settle on a web-based means of collecting and organizing listener submitted inquiries (if you have ideas on the best way to do this I'm all ears), please send your questions to [e-mail] and we'll do our best to answer! I sincerely hope you enjoy our discussion & look forward to your thoughts in the comments section below. Peace + Plants, Rich

The reality is, if you're not aligned in yourself, you're not able to help. You're really not in a place of being able to really be of service. And that's the beauty of going through a dark night or being sort of pummeled a bit by life's wonderful tumble-dry cycle. That's Julie Pyatt, and this is another episode of Ask Me Anything on the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody out in podcastlandia. It's Rich Roll, your host. Back again with another episode, a Q&A, Ask Me Anything episode with the lovely... Hello.

Are you going to introduce me or I have to say my own name? I was going to make you say your own name. You say lovely and then I have to say Julie Pyatt. That's right. That's bizarre. Should we start over? Go ahead. You can introduce me.

No, we're just moving forward. All right, fine. The lovely Julie Pyatt. But now it's Podcastlandia, right? Well, podcast is sort of like Portlandia. I know. You know, podcastland. Well, hi.

Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's been a while since we've done one of these. It has been. So what do we do here on the show? Each week, I, and sometimes you, today you, probe the minds of some of the best and the brightest in health, wellness, excellence, and pretty much all kinds of different kinds of subjects. Entrepreneurship, spirituality, publishing, pretty much anything that piques my interest, all as a means to help us live and be

better. That's right. It's a pretty good aspiration, right? But today we're taking questions. We are, but still, these are all keys to helping us all unlock and unleash our best, most authentic selves. That is true. Is that what we do? So anyway, thanks everybody for subscribing to the show on iTunes, for spreading the word and for always clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. To make it easy, you guys, all you have to do is go to the link once and then you can bookmark it. And then it's at the top of your browser. So you don't have to go to my website every single time. What about the app? Well, the app too, but we're not talking about the app right now. We're talking about Amazon. And everybody who has made that a habit that has been huge for us. It really supports us. So I just wanted to give a little appreciation

for those that are doing it. And if you haven't checked that out yet, listen, everybody's buying stuff on Amazon. That's pretty much where everything is the cheapest. Anyway, so if you are a Amazon customer, it's a great way to support the show. It doesn't cost you anything extra. And Amazon kicks us some commission change

and that really helps kind of underwrite the whole podcast. So thank you very much for doing that. We appreciate that a lot. Absolutely. So it's been a little while since we've done one of these. There's been a lot of travel under our belts. We just got back from New York City and I've kind of recapped that in a past episode, but it was a pretty epic trip. Did you enjoy yourself? I did enjoy myself very much. Well, it's sort of you're coming out also in terms of being an author with all these appearances and everything like that. And what was really cool, and I've said this before, but listen, in LA, like everyone's so jaded and into themselves that it's really hard to pull a crowd

to do anything in Los Angeles. And every stand-up comedian or musician will say the same thing. When they go out into the world and tour and do appearances and stuff, they get great, rabid fans and crowds and stuff like that. But when they do stuff in LA, it's much harder because everyone lives here or everybody's competing against everybody else's thing and everybody's kind of into their own thing. So oddly and ironically, given that Los Angeles is kind of the entertainment capital of the planet, you don't really necessarily feel the connection with the audience living here, but like being in New York, because you're just out with so many

people out in the street, it was amazing how many people just, you know, gave high fives on the street or just said, hey, I listened to the show, like on the subway or just, you know, gave high fives on the street or just said, Hey, I listened to the show, like on the subway or just, you know, wherever out running, walking around. And for the first time you got to experience a little bit of that for yourself, like some fans coming up to you. Yeah, that was crazy. That's it's been crazy actually. Well, first of all, I want to back up and I want to say that I really did. We really did have a very deeply meaningful book release party in Los Angeles and we did have some very, very hardcore fans come out and it was, it was just very, very meaningful. So I have to say that, but I think when you travel, obviously you're not in your neighborhood and you don't have any,

you know, any of your social structure that you usually have that sort of defines your life on a daily. So yeah, it's really surreal to just be out walking in the streets of New York and have somebody stop me and say, want to take their picture with me and say how much they love the show and they love the cookbook. And it was really, really sweet. And I just find really amazing humans out there, really, really good hearthearted, inspiring people. And I actually had the same experience when we traveled to Ireland. We went to Ireland recently to attend our dear friend Tara and Danny's wedding. And we were asked to perform, actually. I actually sang when she walked down the aisle in this incredible tree cathedral.

So it was a surreal experience, but even more surreal was to receive an email from podcast fans that were living in Cork and it's Carmela and crew. And it was just, it was really, really crazy that they met us, they made a plant powered breakfast for us. And then a whole crew of people met us at a cornucopia in Dublin. And, uh, and then we had a whole nother crew in London, uh, Damien and just, it's, it's crazy. It's really so sweet. Yeah, it's great. And it makes me think that maybe a good idea would be to kind of follow the model that, you know, James Altucher has these choose yourself meetups across the country. And also Matt Frazier at No Meat Athlete does the same. There are No Meat Athlete groups that have nothing to do with like James or Matt.

It's just people on their own who get together to, you know, form their own community around the ideas that resonate with them. And that could be cool to do plant power meetups. that resonate with them. And that could be cool to do plant power meetups because I think that's a way to, you know, scale the ideas that we talk about without involving us as personalities because it's not about us. It's about these ideas,

these powerful ideas that are transformative in people's lives. And to the extent that, you know, we can kind of, you know, create a foundation and then people can then take that and go out in the world and create their own communities where they live around that. I think that that's exciting. So, yeah, I mean, there's power in, in, uh, in everybody, uh, you know, connecting and then

spreading that information. So I, and I think people would find it very supportive as well, you know? So yeah, we should, we should find a way to support that. Let's try to figure out how we can make that happen. Okay. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how

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All right, let's get into some listener questions. It's been a while and so many emails have come in. Thank you so much for everybody who has taken a moment to reach out to us. And, you know, obviously we can't respond by replying to every single one of those, which is one of the reasons why we're doing this kind of Q&A format. And we're going to be doing more of this kind of stuff. I'm really committed to getting to two episodes a week. I really think that that's my goal going forward, to step up the podcast and increase the volume of episodes. And the Q&A aspect of it is integral to that.

And I also am looking into new and different ways to collate all the questions that are coming in because it's quite laborious to go through. I love all the emails, keep sending them in. But in terms of trying to select questions to speak to everybody and do it in a way that kind of speaks to the most number of people, I think we need a better system than email. So Google had like a format that I announced on one podcast, but they're terminating it. So I'm looking into other, there's other third-party apps and technologies out there that allow you to create, I don't know what you would call it, not surveys, but people can lodge their questions on a user interface on the computer and then they can get upvoted. So the ones that the people most want answered, the listeners out there,

get kind of rise to the top. And then we can speak to, you know, the issues and the ones that the people most want answered, the listeners out there, get kind of rise to the top. And then we can speak to, you know, the issues and the concerns that most people want to hear about. But I'll report back to you on how we decide to configure that. That's kind of in motion right now. But in terms of the first kind of subject matter that I want to get into, it isn't one particular inquiry from one singular person. But it's kind of an amalgam from a bunch of different emails that I've gotten over the last couple months. And it has to do with people that are in a relationship with somebody who is active in their alcoholism or their substance addiction and how to navigate that to try to be supportive to their partner, their spouse, their boyfriend,

girlfriend, whatever it is, but also, you know, try to help that person, you know, get to the next level where they can kind of confront their addictive tendencies. And this is a sticky wicket, right? And it's a very common thing. Like, you know, people kind of tune into the podcast because they know I'm in recovery. And certainly there are people that have reached out that are struggling with substance abuse. But I want to talk about the people that are in relationships with those people. And I think the first thing to bear in mind, and Julie chime in, is that you have to understand that you can't make somebody change that doesn't want to change. That's sort of the predominant kind of idea that you have to first kind of embrace before you try

to take the next step. That, you know, recovery is not for those who need it, it's for those that want it. And it's very difficult to create willingness in another person, especially when they're in the grips of such a powerful disease that has a hold of them. So I think that the first thing that you have to do is let go of expectations and focus on taking care of yourself first and to try to avoid the pitfalls of getting involved in a codependent relationship with that person. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, this is a, it's a very slippery, you know, even, you know, subject because there's such a broad spectrum of what this means.

Like what this means to every relationship is so different, you know, because it depends on what level is the person that you're using and what are the other effects. So, you know, I would just, I guess I would have to say at the very beginning, you know, if something is in a crisis format or people are being harmed or, you know, it's at some, you know, some very extreme level, I would, yes, I would say in any case, the magnifying glass and the entire perspective and introspection has to be within your own self because that's the only thing that really matters anyway.

So if I found myself in that situation with a partner who was using, I would have to look deep inside myself and really make sure that I was living my purpose and connecting with myself at a much deeper level. After that, there's a bunch of other questions that would need to be asked to determine whether I wanted to stay in this relationship with this person. So, yeah, I would say first, you know, first and last, you know, all the focus has to be on yourself. Right. And in terms of codependency, for people that aren't familiar with that term, and I think that this term gets sort of misunderstood quite a bit, you know, some people think codependency just means like,

oh, you can't be alone, like you always have to be with someone else, but it's not really that. What it really means is that you are investing your sense of self in another person and you become a caretaker and you kind of become someone who rubber stamps somebody else's negative behavior patterns and you kind of lose your sense of self and your own boundaries in the process, right? So you're always kind of tiptoeing around the other person and trying to make it okay and trying to make sure that, you know, the world doesn't see them the way that you see them, and you're kind of always on pins and needles and living in this unpredictable state because you never know, you never know who's going to walk

through the door. Is it going to be a sober person? Is it going to be someone who's loaded? And that creates a lot of trauma for people. And a lot of times, addicts and alcoholics attract that codependent personality because that person will take care of them and that person will kind of help make it okay for them. And that's not a healthy relationship to be in. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I can speak from experience with that. Actually, not with you, not because I wasn't with you when you were using, you know, per se. So, I mean, the disease still live, you still live with the disease, but it's a much different sort of conversation than what we're having right now.

But I will say I was in an abusive relationship, and that was my experience. My experience was waiting for the person to show up and doing a quick survey of where they were at, and then that would affect how I would then act in response to that person. So yeah, everything becomes about them. You're walking on eggshells and, you know, that is, I guess, probably the height of codependency is defining yourself through really how you manage their experience, you know, how you're on the tightrope and how well you're managing this sort of never-ending battle that is basically not solvable and cannot be healed by you. So yeah, that would be my

experience with it. Right. So if you're in an acute situation like that, I mean, the first thing that I would say to you is, again, you know, that's self-care and what does that mean? Well, I think, you know, a very helpful outlet or avenue to explore would be Al-Anon, you know, that's self-care. And what does that mean? Well, I think, you know, a very helpful outlet or avenue to explore would be Al-Anon. You know, and, you know, I think that a lot of people like they're, I don't want to go to an Al-Anon meeting. It's a 12-step meeting. I'm not the one with the problem. helpful in kind of, you know, discussing with a community of people that are going through the same thing who have a lot of experience with this issue, you know, tools and ways of, you know, sort of marching forward with your best foot forward, you know, to do it in a healthy way.

And, you know, sometimes it means, you know, sort of, you know, that tough love thing where it's like, hey, I'm leaving, you know, or you got to move out or, you know, kind of those harsh, you know, ultimatums, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that either. Yeah. I mean, I, I don't have a track record with Al-Anon. Al-Anon was not a support to me. But, you know, I'm, I know it is to, you know, millions of people and that's an amazing organization. And, you know, that's, you know, you speak to that and that's your experience, which is great. Um, I would say that I, I gained clarity, um, you know, again, from, from the teacher of experience and that is, um, literally getting my head bashed against the wall instead of figuratively, but literally going

through the experience repeatedly over a set of time and beginning a meditation practice. And it was the day that I, you know, I got trapped in this spiritual kind of illusion because I think we're taught, you know, well, a good person forgives, right? A good person rises up and forgives and turns the other cheek, so to speak, or, you know, can sort of see the bigger picture. And I think one of my big pitfalls in, in my experience and why I was actually in and out of this relationship over a seven year period, I actually got away for a year and a half and ended up going back. If you could even believe that's possible. But my big mistake or my big illusion was that I was in control. And I could see that he was very much like a child or like a traumatized little child who was having this tantrum, right? And there was a part of me that could view that and could,

you know, I felt very together sort of in it. But my biggest mistake as I got out of it years ago, I mean, years later and looked back, was that I put someone else's needs before mine, okay? Well, that's the absolute definition of codependency. Right. Right. So it was when I decided to love myself more than anyone else, that's when I got out. And how did you do that?

Well, at the time it was, okay, so let me just give you a little bit of the background. So I met this individual when I was in college and he was very, uh, you know, working in the music business, managing like big rock bands and, you know, so it was a very seductive life and he decided that he loved me and I really didn't like him at all. And he, it was crazy. I mean, it's absolutely crazy that I ended up, you know, actually I married him, uh, actually being with him for all that time, but it was sort of the element of persistence. He was the one who was always there. Even when I didn't want him to be there, he was there. And he just wore me down over time, like through phone calls, gifts, concert tickets,

and it became like, oh no, we're friends're friends we're friends and then at one point when he saw the opening he kind of forced his way in and I was too too immature and too undeveloped in myself to know you know to know any better and so I was like oh well maybe I do love him like maybe he's right so it it started this whole experience um and then uh you know, okay, so the pattern in abuse is always that, you know, it's not that the abusers are like this from day one, because if they were, they would never get in a relationship. So it's a progressive burn. Well, it's the up and down, you know, it's sort of like the abusive behavior followed by, you know, the waterfall of like

love and apologies and amends and all that kind of stuff. That's what keeps you stuck because one is always followed by the next cycle. It's called a honeymoon cycle. It's like, it's actually, it's, you know, actually defined in abuse. And so it goes around in a circle, but I would even say before that, that, that, that, you know, uh, you're not shown these traits, at least, at least completely transparently. So it wasn't until, or you wouldn't get into it, you know, and it's so, so it wasn't until I was, you know, out of college and had moved here, you know, and had actually moved in with him and had no friends and had, you know, kind of no system, no structure around me that then I saw the first episode of abuse and the first episode of abuse. It's so traumatic. You're just thinking like, how in the hell is this happening to me? And you don't want anybody to know about it. And, you know, I was like, oh, my parents would be devastated. Like, how did this happen? And then the, the, the, the remorse, the shame, it's huge shame.

And then the, the remorse is so large, you know, uh, within him and, you know, he would cry and, you know, just like, so sorry, like so beyond sorry. And then I would forgive him and then it would be okay for actually, it not only would be okay, it's these extremes. So I would be like the most amazing woman on the planet or in the universe. Right. And then I would fall from that status all the way into the toilet. Like it would go, I would go from being the absolute most pristine, you know, feminine who had ever walked the earth to being the low, the lowest, you know, piece of shit in the gutter. Like that would, that was a trajectory. So it just took a little while.

And I started to see actually a student therapist. I didn't have money to have a therapist. And I found one of these kind of programs where a student has to do her hours. And actually, her name was Mary Lee. So I just want to remember her. And she actually tried to get me to breathe. And I thought she was an insane person. And I remember going into the session. I'm already breathing. I was like, great breathing.

And now it's like, I'm all about breathing. She was like, if you can just breathe. But every time I would go in there, every time I left, she would remind me that he could kill me. And I used to just look at her and just think, oh, you're just like so exaggerating, you know, because I just really didn't feel that. So it took me a long way to work myself out of it. But again, for me, like the key moment was the moment that I finally decided to never put him before me. So I didn't care how much weight he lost, how sad he was, how upset he was. It had nothing to do with me. It was literally done. And at that point, there was no way, there was no ties. And I never repeated the experience again. So it's not like

I had a pattern and I was used to it or I had seen it. But did you go through that thing where you're trying to get him to look at his own behavior and change? Um, or was it, Oh, it was impossible. I mean, he was explosive. I mean, he, you know, he did come to some, a couple's therapy, which would make an amazing, uh, amazing movie because like he screamed at this therapist, like so badly that she was shaking, you know, it was, it was horrible. And, but the one, really bizarre thing is, and I think people that are addicted to drugs or cigarettes, you have the recurring dream where you wake up and you're like, I used or I smoked.

Well, my recurring dream was that he was attached to my leg and he wouldn't let go. And all I was saying was, I don't love you. Get away from me. Get away from me. And this tortured me for many years. But I literally made the decision to never speak to him again, to never interact with him again. And years and years later, I had this karmic kind of wheel roll around. And all of a sudden in the same month period, I saw all these people from my life with him. Like all these people

just showed up and it was all at once. And it was a really nice reunion and all that stuff. And then I saw him once. I saw him from across the street and I was working with a spiritual teacher at the time. And I remember telling him like, okay, so is it time to make amends? And should I call him? And my teacher was like, no, like, do you want to create more karma? Like, leave it alone. Don't go there. Right. So that was my very extreme, very, very extreme experience, you know? And, uh, and so I had that experience, you know, under my belt, you know, and then some, by the time I met you, it was actually two relationships after that. So, so I never had that with you. Um, and that's why it's hard for me to say,

like, I don't want people to think when they read our story, like, Oh, you know, rich was using, and I was, you know, this mother Teresa or something. No, that's not, that's not our history, but, but I continue to, you know, I will always be an alcoholic and, you know, although I don't drink or use drugs like that, that ism, you know, although I don't drink or use drugs, like that, that ism, you know, is still within me and manifests itself in a variety of ways, which is why I'm still very active in recovery and why it's the first priority and all of that, because I'm constantly trying to arrest that. But it, it, you know, it, it, it raises its head in various, you know, behavior patterns

that are unhealthy for me that I'm always trying to kind of manage. you know, behavior patterns that are unhealthy for me that I'm always trying to kind of manage. So, but, but kind of, you know, the, the paradigm of being in an abusive relationship is quite analogous to somebody who's in a relationship with somebody who is in, you know, in the grips of substance abuse addiction. And I think that it's trickier when there is a deep love between them because, you know, whether it's them because whether it's parents with a child or somebody who's been married or what have you, it gets a lot harder and it's a lot trickier. If you're a parent and you're watching from the sidelines as your child is spiraling out of control, how do you manage that? The tough love of like, okay, we're, we're not talking

to you until you get sober is frightening because what happens if something really bad happens and you know, you weren't there for that person. So that keeps people in perhaps, and probably most of the time longer than they should. So there are certain things that you can do in that, that are kind of come out of the course and scope of taking care of yourself, which is to create those healthy boundaries. Like this is not acceptable in the house. Or if you're going to do that, like, I'm not going to be around like things like that, that are self-care, but also make it very clear to the other person, like this isn't going to work for me. And if you're going to perpetuate this, like this relationship is off the rails and I'm moving in a different direction.

And that can be as extreme as, you know, I'm moving out or just to like, don't bring that around me. And I think you can make it clear to the other person that, you know, that behavior is unacceptable and that they need to address that. But you have to be divorced from an expectation that that person is going to change because that person has to be ready, you know, and sometimes, and quite often they're not ready. They have to go through whatever they're going through to get to that place where they're in enough pain where they can then look in the mirror and, and, you know, take accountability for their behaviors. And that could go on for years. And that's, those are painful, painful years. So the question really is like, are you going to go on that ride or not?

Yeah. And I mean, I don't know, I would have to say, I'm just sitting here feeling into everything that you're saying. And I have to say from my own experience that I don't think the tough love thing really works. I really don't, you know, I think it's lip service. It kind of worked for me. It worked for my parents said we're done, you know, and that was like a heavy, that was like a, that was a, you know, a very difficult thing for me to swallow. And that really began the process of me going, you know what? I don't have much longer of living this way.

That was intolerable to me. That was so painful. I didn't change overnight as a result of that. But I think that that was an important part in kind of turning the tide for me. So I think it does have its place. Because I think it compels the person to really understand because I think somebody who's in the grips of that is just like, leave me alone. What I'm doing is none of your business. I'm not hurting anyone. And you're myopic. You don't understand. You're not in touch with the fact that your behavior is impacting other people. You just think that

it's your choice for yourself. You can't see the ramifications of that. You're blind to that. And so to the extent that other people can bring it to your attention and go, look, man, this is what you're doing. This is what it's doing to me, helps the person understand that there are, you know, that there are repercussions outside of that personal choice. Yeah, I guess me, I would agree with you. And I guess on the large issues, like if it's an

ultimatum, like a complete ultimatum, but if it's the little things like during the course of the relationship, like I just, I find it to be mostly lip service and, and I just know in my experience with you, it's never worked. So what's worked has been to depersonalize your disease from me and not participate in any cause or effect of it. And understand that when you're, when you're looping or when you're in one of your, you know, imbalances that has nothing to do with me and to be able to release you to your own process, which is what we've talked about a lot about with the food, you know? Because, because even when I, you know, even when I was trying to communicate and reason and say, Hey, this isn't good. And Hey, this doesn't work. It never worked. Right. So in my experience, it's like what really healed us was meditation. Was it, was a real, you know, a real desire and a real commitment to actually, for me

to release you, go deep within myself, access this deep meditative place and, and then be in unconditional love and compassion and understanding that your, you know, whatever's going on with you is not, has nothing to do with me. Right. But I think the piece that you're really getting at is, you know, when I say, oh, you know, that tough love thing that can kind of compel somebody to look in the mirror and say, oh, I got to do this. But then if they're not ready, they're then going to do it for the other person to make the other person okay, as opposed to really doing it for themselves. So the releasing

thing that you're talking about is really that shift in energy that when you let go, then it's like, oh, the mirror, now I'm looking at myself in the mirror. And I've got to make this decision, not because Julie is putting an ultimatum on me or whoever it is, but because it's my life, right? And I have to take accountability for that. So it's a little ephemeral, I think, but I think that's kind of what you, I mean, that's been my experience, I think. Yeah.

So in terms of people out there that are in this situation, I think what you can take from this is that it's not a black or white thing. It's not at all. And you're gonna have to feel it out. But the self-care and kind of what Julie said, the self-love aspect of it, I think is the most powerful part of it and the beginning. And I think divorcing yourself from the expectations of having that person change are really important as well. Yeah. And it's all about self-love. And

I think that the kind of little trick is that many many of us been taught to think that self-love is selfish, but it's actually not because you can't love anyone else until you love yourself. I mean, everybody says that and then they go, Oh, that's so, you know, tried or whatever, you know? Oh, yeah. But the thing is, is yeah. So it's, I would say be very selfish, be extremely selfish. That's what I would tell anyone in any walk of life, because from my perspective, we're all created from a divine blueprint and we all were created for a specific reason with a specific life purpose to like actualize. So because I believe in God or the force or whatever, I want you to be really selfish. I want you to be exactly how you are in your heart. And if you do

that, I think that frees up a lot. And then another thing that I, that I just like, can I just like make one observation on that first, which is that gets misunderstood or misinterpreted to mean that you're just all about you. And it's not really that I I think it really is rooted in that Buddhist idea that the most powerful way to change the world is to improve yourself. Because if you really are selfish in that way, and selfish is such a pejorative word, but it really shouldn't be. It's sort of like if you are exercising that self-care and exercising those healthy boundaries and really doing that internal work to make yourself the best version of yourself that you can, that's how you get on exercising that self-care and exercising those healthy boundaries and really doing that internal work to like make yourself the best version of yourself that you can, that's how you get on the

right track with your life and the right trajectory. And then you have more to give. Yeah. And I mean, I think a better word would be a word that was like selfful. Right. That is better. When you're actually selfful, it means you're in integrity, you're authentic, you're aligned to your true origin. And because you're in integrity, you're authentic, you're aligned to your true origin. And because you're in integrity and you're in alignment, your actions are automatically, spontaneously in right order. So it affects everything from the very beginning because so many of us, we end up in places, situations, events, life things because of a should, because somewhere, someone along the

line, society, our parents, ourselves, like whatever, told us that we should be doing a specific thing. And, you know, back into, you know, yogic practice, it's like, you know, at the ultimate, if you're aligned with yourself, you don't need rules. You don't need someone to tell you to give you a list of commandments because you would never, you would never act out of right harmony because you're so aligned in yourself. You become able to trust your instincts. Yeah. And just really spontaneous. It's, it's like, it's almost like you're spontaneously living from this really powerful integrated energy source. Right. One of the things that, uh, when I, when I did a podcast with Casey Neistat in New York,

I had Mathis with me and I was like, Hey, so Mathis, I said to Casey, uh, Mathis is our 11 year old daughter. I said to Casey, so I have Mathis right here. If you could say one thing to her, like one piece of advice, like what would you tell her? And he, and he said, don't listen to anybody, you know, but I think, and that's a very powerful thing. Like what he's saying really is trust your instincts, but in order to be able to trust your instincts and have that like finely attuned radar and antenna about what's right for you, it, it goes back to what you said, exercise, exercising that selfful lifestyle and, you know, behavior patterns that you can master over time so that you are so in tuned with who you are that you

don't need that external guidance or output because you know what's right for you. Yeah. And from that state. So, so many of us think, well, you know, I want to help others or, you know, I want to do charity work or I want to, you know, I want to do this so that I can help. And the reality is, if you're not aligned in yourself, you're not able to help. You're really not in a place of being able to really be of service. And that's the beauty of going through a dark night or being sort of pummeled a bit by life's wonderful tumble dry cycle is you get an opportunity to really shed some of the sort of extra things that are sort of blocking you from really, really, really living your best, most authentic self.

Cool. All right. I want to switch into another question, but it's kind of related to the first one. And this is something that we've talked about. I don't think that we've ever talked about it on the podcast. We've definitely talked about it at length off air. Do we talk off air? Once in a while, when we're forced to. The email's really long, and I'm not going to give the person's name, but she is somebody who is sober and is vegan and has hit somewhat of a plateau in her life. And she writes, with my sobriety, with my workout routine, and just with everything in general, part of my spiritual journey has led

me to plant medicine, which has been one of the best things that has ever happened to me. And I have experienced rapid transformation since I began participating in ceremony here in Oakland, California. I know that it is the right choice for me, even though some people in 12-step recovery don't really see it the same way that I do. But with this newfound path of healing, I have also found myself justifying smoking pot, and as its consequences are far less devastating than drugs and alcohol, I'm unsure of my life path and what I should be doing next, and if smoking pot is something that I want to be doing. And, you know, it goes on. And interestingly, in the next paragraph, she says, every time I start a workout plan, it sizzles out within weeks. I know I'm capable of greatness just like everyone else is. How can I find that inside of me? What is the best program for me to integrate into my

spiritual journey? And she's wondering if what our opinions are on plant medicine ceremonies, if we've ever done anything like that. So this is a really important subject and it comes, it's come up kind of regularly in passing. And I think it's, you know, worthy of our time to discuss. And I will just say, you know, Julie, I want, I want Julie to chime in on this in a second, but I just want to say that, you know, for me, just kind of navigating the world and out in the world as kind of a sober person in recovery, you know, I keep hearing these stories from other podcasts and other people that are talking about ayahuasca and DMT and how, you know, this is like the cure-all for my addiction. If I would just do this, it would really resolve my addiction

problems. And I've seen people who have done it and they will profess, you know, these spiritual miracles that have transpired as a result of doing this. And it's very much a zeitgeist thing right now. Like there's almost a whole tourism industry built around people like going down to South America and being with shamans and having this kind of ayahuasca experience. And so I think it's kind of something that's important. It's on a lot of people's minds. You know, is this right for me? Is this not right for me? And as somebody who is, you know, an alcoholic and an addict who struggles with my, you know, obsessive compulsive behavior patterns, when somebody says to me, oh, the solution to your, your drug and alcohol problem is to like,

take this drug, you know, like that, like, that's like, oh, that sounds good. You know, like, let's do that. Like, Hey babe, like, let's check this out. Let's go down and do that. And I have to like, oh, wait a minute, you know, what's really going on here. And it scares me, you know, like I, you know, like my sobriety is extremely important to me. It's very tenuous and it requires a lot of work for me to maintain that sober path. And for me, anything that comes even close to threatening that is something that I cannot have in my life. But I think on a broader kind of scale, life. But I think on a broader kind of scale, it's a discussion that needs to be had about what happens when you put a substance, a very, very, very powerful substance like that into your body. And what does that do to you? And what is the responsibility of somebody who's

administering that to you? And what is your personal responsibility to yourself about what that means and why you're doing it. Beautiful. Okay. So, you know, I have a lot to say about this issue. And I just want to say to the person who wrote the letter in, I want to thank you for asking the question. And also, I want to just say to you that I believe in you to find your way through your journey. And so what I'm going to say, I offer with complete respect and unconditional love and judgment. So I am not an advocate of plant medicine

in any circumstance. I cannot say that on the air enough. And my information and my perspective is informed from all the years of spiritual study that I have embarked on with many, many different teachers and traditions, a lot Vedic, but I've also worked with Native American. And I would say that it is extremely dangerous to open yourself spiritually using a drug, whether it is natural or whether it is synthetic, into realms that you do not understand and that you are not equipped to deal with. There is a reason that our spiritual progression has a certain timeline that goes through our life. And the goal should be to open slowly and consciously with great awareness

and balance. Anytime you take a mind-altering substance that could snap you open to other realms, you're taking a very, very large risk. And unless you are very, very skilled in working in the multidimensional realms and dealing with dark energies and energies that are not in your best interest, I would advise that you stay very, very far away from any of these ceremonies. Yeah, I think that, you know, I would couch that by saying that I know people that are friends of mine who have done this and have had expansive positive experiences with that. But I think the bigger and larger issue really is what Julie's getting at, which is you don't really know what you're playing around with. It's extremely powerful. And when you open yourself

up like that, all kinds of stuff can happen. And for every story of somebody who's had some kind of transformative experience, there are other stories that don't get a lot of press that I know personally of people that have had crazy experiences that have been devastating, that have resulted in depression and people becoming shut-ins and all kinds of craziness, right? So I don't have direct experience with this. So it's not for either Julie or I to tell you what you should or should not do with yourself or your life. But I think that it bears mentioning that you have to take responsibility for it in the sense that you are opening yourself up to all kinds of crazy energies that you can't predict or control. Yeah. And you also have to understand that it's this idea in spirituality that we all

have. We just want someone to give us a pill. just give me the pill so that I wake up and then I'm fully realized and I can, you know, go to the next level or whatever, or we want someone to come in with a wand. And the reality is the world we're living in today, just energetically, there are energies and beings and entities and all kinds of spirits and things that we don't even, they've never even been around the planet before. So this is a very specific time in history. So to open yourself up at this time, you're even dealing with more debris, with more interference, with more chaos. And I would say that, you know, she asked the question, she sent the email in. Okay. So she asked the question. So if anybody,

they may go on the, I know people that have done, you know, plant medicine trips and they love it. And they're like, Oh, it was so expansive. There's also a lot of vomiting that goes on and a lot of really bad trip stuff that goes on. Um, people get fragmented. They can't, they can't get, get it together after they've had the experience. You know, I recently heard of a, of a young man who did a trip and then got completely fragmented, had to get institutionalized, was actually admitted to an institution, and now he's out, and now he's looking for another shaman. The deal is, you're not going to get it. It's not free. It's not like you can push a button

or take a pill and then realize. And I would go back to say of all the acid experiments that were conducted, you know, in the 60s with, you know, searching for God and all that, none of that produced enlightenment. Okay. So you can't get it through a false, you know, a false experience. And what I will tell you is if you meditate and you're devoted and you're sincere in your desire to know God, you can have these experiences without any drugs. I've had them. But you cannot dictate when they show up. You can't say this Friday night, I'm going to take a drug, and then I'm going to jump dimensions, and I'm going to see another world. But that has happened from my practice through meditation. It's never been when I expected it and it's never been what I thought, but you know, I've had, I've had my share. So I've seen, I've seen it all. Yeah. I mean, I think that not at all. I've seen a section, a small sliver. The, the counterpoint that would be mentioned by somebody who is, you know, a proponent of this is why should you have

to spend your entire life meditating when you can do this and take the super highway? It's the life hack. So that's, that's what I was going to say. It's sort of interesting that the, the, the ascension of this modality has become so popular in mainstream culture at the same time that this whole notion of the life hack has kind of come into the zeitgeist because it's like, hey, how can I shortcut my way to X, Y, or Z, whether it's weight loss or what have you. And, you know, I keep mentioning it, but it's like, there is no shortcut. There's no hack. Well, I mean, you can, you can, you can shortcut your way to, you know to a temporary result, I suppose. But if you really want to do it for real

and get the result of having the authentic, true experience and that involves actually modifying your lifestyle and creating sustainable practices around that, you can't take a shortcut. You have to put in the work and the value comes in that work ethic that I think gets lost in all of this. Yeah. And I think, well, the other part of it is this person wrote in, okay, so now she's using marijuana. Let's just get into that a little bit. So that's what's interesting here. So she's saying

that this is one of the best things that's ever happened to her. But then she comes back. Now she's smoking pot. And now she can't work out. She's like, you know, she's having problems with motivation. Yeah, yeah, duh. And following through and all these sorts of things. So if you think that that is unrelated to stepping outside of your sobriety to experiment with plant medicine, then you should really reevaluate. Because these are, of course, integrally related. They're, they're, they're part and parcel with each other and they go hand in hand. And you know, I also know it's like, you know, everybody's all about, you know, marijuana

now and how it's all great and whatever. And that's all fine. I mean, listen, I, you know, I guess I would probably agree that it was less harmful than alcohol. I don't drink alcohol though. You know, I don't drink alcohol. I don't use drugs. I don't smoke pot and I'm not a proponent of smoking pot. I don't think it's a good thing. I actually know spiritually that it lowers your resistance and it opens you to a lot of very dense, heavy energy. And if, you know, it's just a fact. You become kind of dense and laden with these kind of energies that, you know, are lethargic and kind of cloudy and kind of, you know, and you think of a lot of creative things while you're high, but then you can't remember them after you're not high. So, you know, I don't really know how that works. I'm no stranger to drugs. I've used my fair share early in my life.

So I'm not standing on a soapbox with some kind of pretense or something. I just know what I know from my spiritual practice and I would never do anything that altered my state. I want all of my energy to be with me. And I think that there are people now that have gone before that have been advocates of plant medicine that are starting to see the effects and the fact that it was in fact not the success that was thought that it was going to be.

That being said, I just need to say there are beings I'm sure on the planet whose lineage happens to be in this area. And for them, it may be the right road. But what I am saying is on a mass level with the amount of people, um, I, I would always advise, um, to not partake in these kinds of ceremonies. Yeah. It's interesting. I had Daniel pinch back on the podcast for those of you who might've missed that episode. And for lack of a better term, I mean, he's sort of the modern day kind of godfather of this whole like sort of postmodern psychedelic movement

and exploring plant medicine as a means to raising consciousness, right? And I can't remember whether we talked about it on the podcast or whether it was, I think it was after we finished recording and we hit stop and I had a brief conversation with him and I was like, you know, so what is your perspective on kind of what's happening right now with everybody wanting to, because it really has become like a tourism thing. It's sort of like if you're well-heeled and you got, you know, a nice bank account, it's like the hip thing to like fly down to South America and have this experience and then just go back to your normal life. There was an article in the New York Times about it recently.

It was in the New York Times Sunday Magazine. I'll find the link and I'll put it in the show notes. And he had a very interesting response. You know, I thought he would say, well, you know, cause he's all about that and he's had, you know, transformative experiences in his life. And he's very much, you know, kind of the Pied Piper of that community. And he expressed disillusionment. You know, I think he had this perhaps idealistic notion that when he wrote his initial books, that this would spur a responsible exploration of these plants as a means to kind of create better community, like better government and better systems for everybody. And instead, that's not what happened.

And it's sort of similar to what happened with the LSD movement in the sixties. Instead, what's happened is you have this, you know, sort of touristy, uh, kind of flirtation with it, but not really the impact that he was hoping to see. And so he was very frank and said, you know, I'm rethinking this whole thing, you know, in the wake of that. And I found that to be, you know, rather interesting and surprising. And, and I appreciated his honesty with that. Yeah. And I mean, I think, you know, again, in spiritual, you know, uh, study, the proof is in the pudding. The proof is in the fruits of the practice. So if this person had really, had really merged with some part of herself and access some higher place,

she wouldn't have ever written the letter and she wouldn't have been smoking pot and unable. She would have been catapulted to, what do you mean? You just did like an enlightenment journey. Like you should be blasted into some new state of, you know, I'm happening. And the other thing is, you know, with respect, my experience of Daniel Pitchbeck,

he's not exuding unconditional love and compassion. It's not the energy that surrounds that individual. He's extremely intellectual and extremely in his own experience. So, you know, pay attention. this is a, it's a, it's a, a result of human beings not wanting to take responsibility and not wanting to do the work and take, you know, to, to go through what they need to go through to live a life of devotion, to live a life of connectedness. And that happens in the little moments all throughout the day. And it's not about going away on a retreat and paying thousands of dollars and taking a drug and arriving someplace, you know? So obviously I feel strongly

about it. I mean, I do because I think there's a danger of, you know, people getting really damaged and unable to find their way back to their spiritual connection. And, you know, that's important to me. And I think I have to speak honestly about it. So I apologize if I'm strong about it. Yeah, no, we could talk more about this later. I mean, it's a pretty, it's a big issue, you know, it's a big issue and it's on a lot of people's minds right now, but I think that pretty much laid out kind of where we stand on the whole thing for now. I think so. All right. So we'll move on to another question. This one came in a while ago, but it's a good one. So this is from Sarah. I have a question for your Q and A show about fear. I think we all have some deeply ingrained fears

that we may not even know about that direct our actions or inaction every day. Since you have gone through a number of significant changes in your life, such as getting sober, changing your diet, training for intense physical races, and changing your career, how have you uncovered fear, addressed it, and moved through it so you can still achieve what you want to do? I am confronting fear and it's really hard. And to hear how others do it would help me continue to work through it. This is one of those things where it's like, here are the five, you want to say, here are the five things that you need to do, and this will no longer be an issue. But, you know, again, things like this are not black and white. We all live with fear. And I think for me, the first part of it is understanding that the idea, kind

of like this idea of like, no fear, you know, overcome your fear is not the way to do it. I think what you have to do is accept fear. Like fear is, you know, we all have fears. So it's not about ignoring it or denying the fact that you have fear. I think the first thing you have to do is acknowledge it and embrace that you have it and then understand that it's an illusion, right? And so how do you do that? Like how do you get from experiencing the fear on a very deep emotional level to getting to a point where you can move past it or ignore it or overcome it? And I think that begins, you know, it's like, this happens in recovery all the time.

Like the answer to these questions always boils down to the same thing, you know, and it gets annoying. It's like, really, it's the same answer again. Like, can I get like the VIP, like special secret sauce that you haven't told anyone else? But the truth is, it's like, you have to do the internal work. And that starts with meditation. And when you begin to meditate, when you begin to kind of take inventory of your life, what happens is you begin to understand that there is a distinction between the, you know, cycling of your thinking mind and your higher consciousness. Because most people are walking around, they can't make that distinction. Whatever is going on in their brain, they think that's them. They identify with that as who they are. But to understand that that looping or that emotional state that you're in is not necessarily

your higher consciousness, and in most cases is not, I think is a powerful first step. And that only comes through, you know, being in stillness and, and doing that work. And once you arrive at that place, then you can say, I'm experiencing fear. Interesting. Um, let's take this through to its conclusion. Like you can, you can do sorts of exercises around it. I mean, one thing you can do is let's take this to the ultimate conclusion. Like what's the worst thing that can happen and write that down and then say, what are the chances that that's going to happen? Um, and, and to understand that it's, it really is, I mean, look, I have fear. I haven't overcome fear.

I live with fear. Um, but it's understanding that that fear doesn't have to control my decision-making, right? That I can take action in the face of fear or despite fear. And once you kind of string together some experience of doing that and realize that those fears don't come to pass, then you get more confidence. You get a more sense of self, like, oh, those fears actually are not real. And the more that you can understand the extent of that illusion, I think becomes empowering to the future decisions that you make. Yes, that's good. I would say, let's see, well, I have three things to offer to deal with fear. The first one would be, I would even go one step beyond that and say

that, you know, the fear that you're feeling is, you know, it's part of a collective, you know, like fear exists on this planet as a human collective. It exists in your ancestry. So you likely are experiencing fears that don't even belong to you. Like they have nothing to do with your current life. They're just things that are inside of you that you feel. The other thing is, is by going into meditation and by accessing this kind of deep stillness, you can go beyond the story. And so it's not even like understanding the story. It's kind of dropping beyond the story. And so it's not even like understanding the story,

it's kind of dropping the entire story. So, um, you know, I studied with an Indian master years back and, uh, he used to share this beautiful example of, um, that, you know, in a human life, we basically create a chain of experience and it's really by choice. Like basically our ego creates some setup or some idea of who we are. Um, and they create a chain, your ego creates a chain. So most likely people create a chain of suffering. So they'll, they'll say, Oh, when I was three, my father left my family. So that's the first link. And then the next chain will be, you know, when I was five, I, you know, I, I, my parents divorced. I'm sorry. The father always left, already left. I better use a different one. So the second chain would be, you know, nobody, nobody likes me or the third chain might be, you know, I'm not attractive. Um, the fourth chain may be, you know, I've never been good at anything. Um, the fifth chain may be, you know, I'm not very smart. And so you just start to pick these selectively, these events out of your life, and you start to form the idea of who you are, right?

And less common, people also could make a chain of joy out of it. Like, I'm always, I'm so pretty, and I always get picked, and things always go my way. So they create I'm always, I'm so pretty and I always get picked and things always go my way. So they create a chain of, of this happy illusion. And what he was sharing is that both, both are illusions. Both are, are not correct because the truth is you are the consciousness behind these events and how many millions of moments have happened since the day you were born. I mean, you could just as easily have picked up a different set for a different, you know, a different outlook on who you are.

So again, going to meditation is unclutching, letting go of all that, just simply dropping it and letting go. And, and if you look at it as a physical thing, like your fear chain, you can perceive it and make the decision to drop it, to just drop it and then see. But how do you drop it? You drop it again and again and again and again. You make the intention. You actually feel the chain

and you see that it's an illusion and you say, okay, I'm not participating in it. I'm going to release from this. Well, I think that participating in it. I'm going to, I'm going to release from this. So I think that that me, it's important to understand that you don't just do that once and it's done. Like that's going to cut, like for me, I would have to do that many, many times every single day. But that's why it's a practice. So it's, it's a process, you know, it's your, you're constantly coming back to the breath, constantly coming back to dropping it, constantly.

But it's the way that you're looking at it. You're not identifying with your fear like this is me, this is a part of me, you know, this lives in me, this is, you know, part of my story. So that's the first little technique that you can play with. The second thing that I would say is I would recommend that you practice my meditation. So Jai Release on the Ritual website. practice my meditation. So Jai Release on the Ritual website, it is specifically designed to clear fear from your body through a humming technique and then to align you with your own soul purpose. And it puts you actually in a safe energetic field of your own, which will then shield you from feeling any other fears that happen to be planetary or from your friend's aunt who passed away, who's hanging around in your

bedroom or whatever it could be. It could be a million different things. And so again, sealing your field, understanding that we are not just human beings. We are spiritual beings having a human experience and we have light body. We have other parts of our bodies that is not the physical. So starting to take care of these things, it's like brushing your teeth. And in this program, this 30-minute program,

there is a section of it, which is a visualization, which puts you in your own protective Garden of Eden, not mine, you're not connecting to me, you're connecting to yourself. This is a very, very powerful in dealing with fears. And the third thing that I would offer is I would share that you are able to program your sleep state through intention.

So what I would do is I would write down, I would take a minute and I would write down all your fears and really go deep, like really take a couple hours and really go through every single thing that is terrifying you or anything that comes up that knocks on you that's there. And then at night before you go to sleep, you should sit in meditation, close your eyes and say to your higher self, call your higher self in and the teams of beings that work with you and say, I rescind any and all participation in fear programs pertaining to lack, fear, or separation of any kind. And then say, I claim my God's sovereign power. I am God, sovereign, and free.

Do that every night for 21 days and see where your fear is at that point. I think on top of that, a good practice to begin to engage in is to take behaviors in contradiction to that fear, right? So if there's something that scares you, to take an action that you're afraid of taking. And it can be something really small, you know, to begin with. I mean, I remember just in my own personal experience, you know, looking back on what are the biggest things that scared me that I walked through?

Well, you know, getting back on what are the biggest things that scared me that I walked through? Well, you know, getting sober was terrifying. I thought my life was, would be over and would be boring and terrible. And, you know, it's quite the opposite of course. Uh, but that was extremely, I thought my life was on the line. You know, I thought that like my life was going to be over. It was very, very scary. And then I think the next thing that was super scary was walking out on a very secure law firm job back in 2000 when I decided that I didn't want to be a corporate lawyer in a big law firm anymore. My whole life had been premised on taking the safe path, like, you know, do the right thing and get the good job and all of that kind of thing. Entire life was founded on that idea. And it became so intolerable for so many years, like jamming that square peg into a round hole until I was in so much pain that I literally couldn't show up for work anymore

and I had to quit. I didn't have any plan. I didn't have another job lined up. I didn't know what I was gonna do. I just knew that I couldn't show up at that place anymore. And it had nothing to do with anyone else other than my extreme discomfort. And I was compelled to quit. And I didn't know, I had enough money that would last me like maybe five or six weeks. That was it. And I had no job

and I'd never been without a job, without a safety net in my life. And for me, that was about as real. I couldn't imagine, you know, sort of trusting anything outside of myself to take care of me. And so I remember just literally shaking, like our friend Gordy had to come and help me out, like help me pack out of my office that day. It was absolutely terrifying. And I look back on that now and it's like, why was that so scary? Well, at the time, you know, it was life and death for me, you know, and, and that, but that decision was, you know, a first step in basically, you know, a 15 year process that's brought us to here. It was one thing that I had to overcome. And when I did that, like, for example,

when I got sober and realized that not only did I not die, but my life got better. And when I quit the law firm job and realized I didn't starve and I didn't become homeless and, you know, I figured out a way and made things work. Then that was another little experience where I could say, wow, my fear, you know, really wasn't real. That's true. I mean, that's super powerful and stepping outside of your comfort zone and yeah, living a little, doing something that scares you, you know, every day it can be little or it can be big, but yeah, it's very, very powerful. And in order to, in order to transform and really become who we are, we have to face our fears.

You know, you can't stay locked in your room your whole life. Well, like the adage is like, you know, courage, courage doesn't mean you're not scared. It just means that you take the action in spite of the fear. So that's what courage is. Like, do you have courage? Can you invest in your own personal courage in small ways and ultimately later in big ways? Right. That's right. Okay. Let's move on to another one. Um, let's see. This is from Justin. Uh, thank you for the endless hours of inspiration that your podcast provides. The RRP was a huge part of my transition to veganism nearly a year ago. And at 30, I've literally never felt better. This lifestyle, which I once thought bizarre and impossible, has helped me shed pounds of fat, add pounds of muscle,

and eliminate both alcohol and caffeine from my diet. My question, starting from the premise that the movement towards a plant-based diet is critical to addressing the health crisis facing both society and the environment, what can the average person do that goes beyond standing in the light, voting with our dollars and the like? In other words, what options exist beyond modeling behavior, but short of quitting our nine to fives to start a health and wellness empire? I wish it was an empire. You can start a plant power meetup. Yeah. so I think that there's plenty of things that you can do. I mean, I think that when Julie is talking about the stories that we all tell ourselves about who we are and how we pick isolated incidents along our journey and create an

identity around that, the idea that you can reformulate that and create a new story about yourself is not only very powerful, but I think is almost your responsibility. There's nothing more powerful than your story. And, you know, I like to think that on some level, I've sort of mentored Josh Lajani along this path because when I first met him, he was just a guy who had this experience and I've been encouraging him for the last couple of years to kind of own his story and share it. And now he's in a position where he goes out and he gets speaking gigs and he's, you know, he's really taken that mantle and run with it. And it's such a beautiful thing to watch him step into that and really own it, you know, because he was sort of like, I'm just a guy who cares, you know, like who cares about my story.

And I'm like, dude, your story is so powerful. There's nothing more powerful than your story and you need to share it. You can help a lot of people. And you know, what began with some trepidation, now I see a guy who really can stand firmly in that and own it and, and communicate with people in a way that now he is transforming lives everywhere he goes. And, and that's an amazing, beautiful, phenomenal thing. If this podcast had done nothing else except help, you know, sort of catalyze that in him, then this whole experience and everything that we've invested in it is a win, right? And I think anybody can do that, right? It doesn't have to be, you don't have to lose 200 pounds in order to have something powerful and important to say that can be of service to other people. So I think my message to you is it's not about quitting your nine to five job. It's not about

that. It's about really just owning your story and starting to begin to share that in a way that feels right to you. It might be a little uncomfortable at first and it can start with just posting pictures on Instagram of what you're eating or, you know, it can be really simple stuff like writing a blog on Facebook or starting your own blog. You know, it can be tiny little things taking, you know, consistent actions to kind of put a message out there that has been helpful to you that you think can help other people. And then just sort of, you know, fertilizing that little seed and being open to where it will lead you, you know, and that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to lead to, you know, a career in health and wellness that's going to take you out of your nine to five, but who knows, you know, you don't know until you

embark on that journey. Like I didn't know what that we would be doing, what we were doing now, you know, I just started sharing my story and this is where it is led. So I think being open to that and being willing to not just share like the ABCs of like, here's what you eat, but like really, what is it about your story that's unique to you and, and having the willingness and the openness to be vulnerable, to share that aspect of, of your personal journey. Because I think the more specific you can be and the more kind of emotional based you can be, the more capable you will be to have other people relate to you on a very human level. Yeah, I think that's super powerful. And I think also that it is the personal nature of it or the,

you know, the uniqueness and the transparency, the vulnerability that actually makes something compelling. And I would say at the core of all of this is meditation, spiritual connection, so that you can understand who you are and what you want to express in your life so that you don't go down some other path and you haven't really connected in with what you're really supposed to be doing. And the key thing that can lead you to that connection is a consistent meditation practice. Good. Well said. Well, I think I want to talk about one more thing before we lock it down for today. I've gotten a couple emails and inquiries from people over the last year about two things. The first thing is if we could put together something like a vegan kitchen startup pack

or something like that. In other words, could we have more resources available on the website that would help people kind of embark on this transition? And I've been thinking a lot about that, so I wanted to kind of put it out to you guys if you would be interested in having like a resources section on the website that would be kind of commonly asked questions, like,

where do you get your protein to, you know, what are some books that I can, that I can read, or I can recommend to other people who are interested in this? How do I answer this question? What are some documentaries, like things like that? What are some of the products that I, you know, might be a good idea to get to begin this journey? I mean, a lot of that is in the two books, Finding Ultron, The Plant Power Way, but to be able to kind of have it readily available on the site and have somebody be able to share a link with a friend or something like that, I think could be cool. So if you guys are into that, I've been thinking about it for a while, but it's just, we've been all over the place. I haven't had time to sit down and really kind of map that out and put the work in required to make that something that

would actually be helpful. I mean, what do you think of that, Julie? I think that would be cool if it's all in one place and easy for someone to just grab it and grab the information. Maybe it could be in a PDF where someone could forward it to someone else. Well, I think it would be like resources on the website and then there would be a list of, you know, all different kinds of subject matters. And if you click on one, it would open up like you click on books and then it would just open up to a whole, like a bibliography or whatever, something like that. So it would be easy to navigate. That's good. I'm just wondering if it should be in a format where someone could send it to someone else, like a whole packet, right. You know,

cause I think maybe do a PDF. Yeah. I think it should be a PDF so someone can send it or they can, you know, if someone's in a health crisis or ready to make a shift or they're like, I'm just sick of being overweight or whatever it is, they can just go, Hey, here's the PDF. It's free. There you go. All right. Well, I'll put some thought into that. And then the kind of counter piece to that is, uh, there's been some interest in having a forum on the site, like a forum where, you know where we could create community where people could come and ask questions and other people could answer those questions

and basically have a discussion about the latest podcast episode or anything for that matter, I suppose. So if you guys are interested in that, let me know in the comment section on this episode and we'll contemplate whether that makes sense for us. Yeah, great. What do you think about that?

I think that's awesome. All right, and I wanted to close it down with one thing, which is I wanted to like, just try to bring people into the show a little bit more by reading like some fan mail. Where did that email go? Oh, here's one. So I just picked one at random.

We get tons of these great letters and I just, I love it. So I thought it would be fun to just kind of, you know, share it with you guys. So this one's from Paul Jackson and Paul writes, thanks so much for reaching out and sharing some of your story. It means more to me than, you know, it's why I do what I do. And I'm so, Oh wait, that's me writing back to him. Where's the email that you sent to me? You're so complimentary. I know. that's me writing back to him. Where's the email that he sent to me? You're so complimentary. I know. That's amazing. You know what? I don't even have it here. I'm going to have to find it next time. Must not be supposed to happen. No. Uh, I don't know what I did with it. Oh, well I'm, I'm out of sorts here, but here, here's what I can do. I'm going to leave you guys with this.

I posted this on Facebook today. Um, let me pull it up right now. So, uh, there's this, there was an article that came across my radar in the rapid city journal, rapid city, Iowa. Let me load it right now. This guy, um, basically while it's loading here, apologies. This is great podcasting. Should I sing? Yeah, you can while we're waiting. No, you know what I do want to do? I want to just mention, I just want to mention this couple who actually came out to, um, Jackrabbit sports in New York. Did I get the name right? Yeah. Jackrabbit sports. Um, there was a couple, a beautiful couple who came up, um, in line and they bought a Plant Power Way book.

Actually, they bought two, I think. And if I'm remembering correctly, their names were Travis and is it Anna? Was it Anna? I think so. Travis? Anna, if that's not your name, I'm really sorry. Anyway, they were so beautiful and radiant and really super sweet. And they told us that they actually live on a boat

and they sail all over the world and they sailed into New York and came to our event. And they said that they listened to the podcast on long passages through the ocean. And so I just wanted to say, Hey, and give you guys a shout out and, uh, just let you know that we're with you and please dive in the water and swim for us and think of us when you're out there. Yeah, that's awesome. It's really cool, you guys. Very cool. And okay, so this article is in the Rapid City Journal, Rapid City, Iowa.

It's called Our Good Deeds, Family Raises Money for Children's Tumor Foundation. And it goes like this. While stationed in Afghanistan, Ellsworth Air Force Base Captain Lance Cannon was inspired by podcasts about ultra-athlete Rich Roll, who went from being unhealthy and 50 pounds overweight to running five Ironman triathlons in a week. Cannon decided to train for and compete in an Ironman of his own. As part of the event, he and his family are raising $5,000 for the Children's Tumor Foundation. So it's a long article. It goes on and on and on. But it's just amazing to me and so cool that the message through

the podcast is inspiring people out in the world to go on their own path of advocacy and service. And again, that's what this podcast is all about. And, and it is why we do what we do. And it was just so great to see an article of somebody saying, you know what? I like, I like this message that's being put out right here. What, what can I do? And what am I going to do? You know? Yeah.

That's a great example. Very, very cool. Yeah. And they're a lovely couple. I'll put a link to this article. Very cool. You guys congrats on that. Yeah.

Thank you for doing that. And hopefully you guys will hear this and And there's a link to support them and their mission in this article. And I'll put all that in the show notes. So you guys should support this. It's an awesome, very, very cool thing that they're doing. So that's it. I think we did it for today.

Awesome. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate you coming on and sharing your wisdom. So we're gonna start doing more of these. Like I said, getting up to a week is really my goal. I'm committed to trying to find a way to make that happen without killing me. But I really think it is the next step and the next evolution that I need to make with the podcast.

So thank you guys for tuning in today. I appreciate you spending a little time with us. Thanks for all the love, for sharing the podcast, for using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. For the time being, until we figure out this new, how we're going to do this, send your questions

for future Q&A podcasts to info at richroll.com. And of course, for all your plant power needs, visit richroll.com. We got nutrition products, books, education products, 100% organic cotton garments.

We've got Julie's meditation program that she talked about today, which you guys should all check out. We just released a new Tech T running shirt. It's a white Tech T with the Plant Power Leaf logo on it. And just the other day, we have a new product on the site. Our friend, the eminently talented artist, Andrew Pasquale, who is very much an up and coming artist in the art world here in Los Angeles. In fact, he just got back from Art Basel in Switzerland. He's doing some really amazing provocative work in the food space. In other words, sort of politically, you know, minded work about our food system. And he has a series on, uh, on the organic label and we're offering prints on our website, like beautiful limited edition prints on this like

beautiful cloth paper that you can either get framed or unframed. I think we have, um, 250, we have a limited number of them, but it's super, super cool. So we're honored that Andrew was willing to offer up his artwork on our site and make it available to you guys. So I would check that out too. And I'll put a link obviously in the website to that. So you guys can check it. There was an email blast that went out about it. If you guys aren't subscribing to my newsletter, please do so. So you can be the first to know about all that kind of good stuff. So that's it. If you're into online courses, we got two on mindbodygreen.com, The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, which Julie and I talk about. It's sort

of a good companion piece to the Plant Power Way, how to get more plants into your life and how to kind of embark on that journey, right? Three and a half hours of streaming video content. And I have a course also called The Art of Living with Purpose, which is kind of all about some of the things we talked about today, the internal work and kind of creating a foundation to set yourself up for success on the best, most appropriate trajectory for you, how to set goals and work towards them so that you can achieve them to live your best, most authentic life. Right. And that one, I think, is about two and a half hours of streaming video content, online community, all that kind of good stuff. So that's it. Thanks for supporting the show, for telling a friend, for sharing it on social media. We love you guys and I'll see you guys in a couple days, right? That's right. You want to take us out, Julie? And if anybody wants to reach

me, you can go to srimati.com, S-R-I-M-A-T-I.com I'm also Srimati on I don't even say it that way I say that because Rich says it though It's Srimati But it's S-R-I-M-A-T-I On Instagram and Twitter So come follow me See some cool images of new food

That I'm creating And you know Get some more spiritual Downloads Downloads Alright, right on. All right, you guys. Peace.

Plants. Namaste. I'm here now Watching the space Feeling the pain In my heart. My skin bleeds. No resistance.

I'm not wishing on a star. I'm here now. And I'm here now, watching the space, allowing it to be as it is. Allowing it to be as it is. My head screams. No resistance. I'm not wishing on a star. I'm here now.

You and I are one, don't you see? Violet flames, a rare hue And if you look a little deeply You will find I'm here now Torsion jewels and silver crowns Taste so bitter now And I'm here now Watching the space Feeling the pain in my heart. My skin bleeds, no resistance.

I'm not wishing on a star I'm here now Catherine Catherine Catherine, I'm here now. guitar solo Thank you.