The Rich Roll Podcast - How To Cultivate Non-Judgment

Episode Date: September 5, 2016

Humans love duality. But there is great beauty in the grey that lives between the lines. Black and white. Good and bad. Evolution and regression. We are hard wired to categorize. To pick a team and stick with it. It’s our way of making sense of the world. But too often this inclination to self-identify only serves to isolate and divide — working at cross-purposes with our competing desire to more deeply connect with our fellow humans. So what happens when we resist the urge to judge another? This week on the podcast Julie and I peer beyond dogma, belief systems and categories to embrace the grey. Consider it a thought experiment in forsaking judgment for empathy as a path to better understand others and the environments we co-inhabit. Specific topics include: * creating and cultivating community * the difference between discernment and judgment * enhancing sustainability in consumer choice * finding your authentic voice We end the episode with a rendition of the Hedy West song 500 Miles by Julie (aka SriMati) and our boys' band Ana Leimma. I sincerely hope you enjoy the conversation. Peace + Plants, Rich

It's really all about perspective. And so it's an inside job. So I would say that many of us have a lot of inner work to do and to attend to before we start judging other people. And so it's the old thing. You don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. And, you know, all of us will be on our knees at some point in our life. Life does not let anyone off of that. So in a way, there's no need for you to judge or for us to judge or for us to tell another person.

And as we always say, the best, most powerful thing is to be a living example. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody, welcome to or back to the podcast. This is the show where each week I have the great privilege of going deep and wide with some of the most interesting, compelling, inspiring, thought-provoking thought leaders across all categories of positive social and culture change. But this week, we're going to do things a little bit differently. This is another edition of Ask Me Anything, which is something we haven't done in a little while. And today, Julie is here once again. Hi, Julie. Hi, Rich. My sometime co-host. Sometimes wife. It's been a while since we've done an Ask Me Anything. So nice to have you back in that chair. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me on your show. Yeah, it's going to be great. So we talked beforehand about a couple subject matters that we

wanted to get into today. But before we get into that, today's episode is brought to you by All right, community. So one of the things that came up in the podcast with Alexis Fox and Micah last week in recapping the plant stock adventure was something interesting Alexis said that I've been thinking about a lot. Like I've always thought I go to a lot of these events and I see some of the same people attending. And I've often thought, why are they coming back to hear these you know, these lectures from these doctors and people when they've already heard the lecture, like they should take the information incorporated into their lives and then live their life, right? But Alexis offered kind of a counterpoint to that, which I think was very astute, which is they're coming not just for the information, but they're coming for the community, right? A bunch of like-minded people congregating to get together to kind of share their collective experience of living this lifestyle, whether plant-based lifestyle, healthy lifestyle,

however you want to characterize it. And that's something that I think I've kind of, I overlooked in my previous synopsis of this thing. And so that's got me thinking about not only the importance of community, but how you and I can do a better job of creating community and also how we can provide other people with the tools to create community in their own, you know, in their own living space, either virtually or in person. And the other experience that kind of is informing my thinking on this was our experience going to Camp Mars a couple weeks ago. So I am friendly with Shannon Leto, who's in the band uh 30 seconds to mars with his brother jared leto

and uh they do this thing every year this is the second year of it where they put on basically a summer camp at the and this year it was in malibu pretty close to our house uh where they have like 1500 of their fans come and spend the weekend and they get to hang out with their fans they play concerts at night and there's activities during the day there was no drugs or alcohol like on site like that was the coolest thing which was amazing and it was like this really cool wholesome experience where all of their fans got to get together and hang out with each other and also got to you know rub elbows with you know this band that they love there was something. And they had brought in speakers like Neil Strauss spoke. And there were some climbing people.

Who did yoga every day. Shannon did a drum circle at night, which was incredible. They had a pool. People were swimming in this pool. And it was just, I'd never seen anything like that before. Like I was really struck by what a unique and powerful thing that was. Like, no band does that, right? And in many ways, this band, you know, irrespective of your musical taste, has made this conscious decision to kind of step out of the paradigm. Like, they've had

this historic, you know, battles with the record labels. They made a documentary about it. And they've just decided, look, we don't have to be the biggest band in the world, but we have fans all over the world that really love us. And let's just cater to them and try to create not only, you know, great music for them, but this special annual experience that we can give to them. Yeah, and they're succeeding, and they have a massive following. And, you know, they really are sort of warriors in this area, because they're breaking the paradigm of the old, you know, setup of the music business and who's controlling what music gets out there. And it's just a super exciting time, and shows a lot of, you know,

inner strength and just following your own way for them to have made the decisions that they made. I'm sure, I know it was not easy. I saw the documentary, they went through hell, like they literally risked everything and sued, you know, people in industries in the music business that were very powerful. And, you know, they went for it. And what they're doing is, is just showing that music is for everybody. And there are billions of people on the planet, and there's going to be somebody that resonates with you. And the things that they're upholding, and they're sharing as they're giving this connection, they're giving, I mean, who gives a drug and alcohol free opportunity in that, you know, kind of environment. And really, you know, they encourage families, and it was also different

levels. So some people were camping all the way up to VIPs that were in tour buses. So they're really doing an amazing job creating community and connecting with their following and bringing the people in close to them. Right. And, you know, I think both Julie and I can speak for you in saying we walked away from that experience, like, really inspired by what is possible, right? Well, I walked up and I was like, it's like Plant Power Italia, but just expanded, you know? Yeah, like, really big and, like, in our backyard. Right.

And actually, we were interested. I mean, we're looking into the venue. They generously, you know, said, yeah, absolutely, check it out. But, you know, that would be a great venue for us to do another kind of Plant Power Way retreat that was sort of more of a mass offering for a wider range of people. Much more affordable. Yeah, much more affordable in different levels. And it would be really, really beautiful to do it so we are looking into that um and that's a pretty exciting uh to have stumbled upon that wonderful

community expression and i think something that goes kind of uh you know hand in hand or lockstep with you know uh kind of stepping out of social constructs or breaking a paradigm or doing something a little bit different, whether it's adopting a plant-based lifestyle or, you know, I don't know, going down the rabbit hole on something that isn't part of, you know, mainstream culture, it can be lonely and alienating. And, you know, I was reviewing a bunch of questions that had come in in preparation for this podcast. And there were a And, you know, I was reviewing a bunch of questions that had come in in preparation for this podcast. And there were a lot, you know, there's a common theme in a lot of them, which is, you know, I listen to the podcast and, you know, I've changed the way that

I eat and my perspective around food and lifestyle and, you know, fitness and exercise and meditation and all of these things. But I feel alone, you know, and the podcast is like this way of connecting with like-minded individuals, you know, in sort of a lighthouse kind of way. But in a tactile, like real world, everyday, you know, experience of navigating your life wherever you live, if you're the only one who's doing that, it can be an isolating experience. So how can we cultivate more community around these ideas so that somebody who perhaps is in that situation can start to feel more at ease and more at home with these choices? Yeah, well, I think, you know, as human beings, we long for connection. It's really one of the foundational desires or needs of what it means to be a human being. And I think one of the really rough things,

I can't believe that happened. I told you. I was like, please turn the radar off on your screen. I actually just turned it on because specifically- Why would you turn it on? Because I wanted to actually get this information from hold on a second um i wanted to find this person who just stopped me this is actually relevant to what we were talking about um i actually you know sort of here she is mafalda

mafalda hi um anyway what happened is is I was actually at Cafe Gratitude yesterday with Shama from Dom and Her, and she's a representative from Dom and Her, which is possibly the most successful And they have an actual working community that exists of more than 500 people and then extended community worldwide. And they have their own language, their own currency. They're making products. They're working together. And, you know, they admit of their own admission, creating community is very hard or living in community is very hard, probably much harder than doing something online. living in community is very hard, probably much harder than doing something online. And what happened is I was at Cafe Gratitude with my dear friend Tamara and with Shama. And during the dinner, Mafalda came up and just, you know, excused herself and

sort of interrupted and said that, you know, she just wanted to connect with me and thank me for the work that I'd done on my podcast and that she had just been listening to it for three hours. And she was just back from Portugal with her child. And I stood up and gave her a hug and was very touched, was very, very sweet. And when she walked away, you know, Tamra had tears in her eyes. And the reason she did is because to be on the outside and to be misunderstood and to be an outlier is a very painful experience. in Norway or Sweden or China or, you know, wherever you are, when you start to awaken and the rest of your community is not awake, it is a painful experience. And as healers or people that have had awarenesses beyond what the mass consciousness is, we have been the ones who have been silenced or marginalized or patronized or sort of judged in a way for not being cool or not or having a ridiculous view, you know. And so I think that the people that are,

you know, awakening in their small town, and they're the only vegan, you know, in a meeting community, or they're the only one who's starting to meditate or practice yoga, they're feeling this disconnection. And it's a true pain of humanity. Right. So how do we get into the solution on that? Well, I think by what we're doing, it's like, you know, you really have to, first of all, you have to try to find a place of neutrality within you and understand that everybody is on their own timeline and their own track of awakening and to understand as much as you can that it's not personal. And one thing that's been really, really helpful for me is to

understand that when you enter into a level of awareness, it's actually a state of frequency. And a state of frequency is not a better than or worse than. So, no life form is better or worse than another. You know, the sun is shining on all of us the same. So, it's just different. So, again, to be able to not take it personally and understand that this is just the process and this is part of going through awakening. But I think even if you can get to that sort of mental and emotional state, there's still a sense of loneliness right so to bridge that gap and to create you know an interpersonal connection with that I think it has to just start with one individual you know like the example that comes to mind is what Josh Lajani has done like down in the in the bayou like when he was you know undergoing his transformation and you know

started eating plants and doing all these things that were completely at odds with the culture surrounding him i would imagine that was very lonely for him right but now he does workshops and he you know teaches cooking at you know little like restaurants or cafes around his you know town and he's working with people in his immediate family. So, of course, none of that happened overnight. It probably happened with him finding, you know, just one person who had, you know, a tangential or slight interest in what he might have to offer and then kind of wedging that door a little bit further open and open and open. And I think by sort of, you know, being that beacon of light,

like standing in your strength with conviction about what you're doing, you will over time, you know, attract like-minded souls who are going to resonate with what you have to offer. I think there's a commitment there and there's certainly, you know, work that has to get done. But I think if you devote yourself to that, that you can see it through to developing community in your immediate environment interpersonally. And, you know, then beyond that, of course, there's plenty of things that you can do online. Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I think that, you know, Josh is a beautiful living example of really being a warrior and really being somebody who has affected great change in his

community and within himself. I mean, he is the best living example, having lost, you know, I don't know, maybe 300 pounds. Over 200. Yeah, and he's running marathons. He won an ultra. He won an ultra. Yay, Josh. The other thing is, is just such a beautiful heart of an individual. I mean, I think the one thing that he never lost was his connection to love

and the fact that he loved his community and he loved his family. And so he was not drawn into judgment and into the violence that can, you know, sort of arise from wanting to draw that line in the sand and make that separation. And it is a little bit of a dance because, you know, in spiritual practice,

we know that the company you keep is very important. So, you know, for instance, in your case, if you're living a sober life, you don't hang out with addicts. Like there is something to that. So you do, when you embrace this type of lifestyle, you want to connect with like-minded people. And the blessing is is that we have this internet so even if you're in the remotest place you can be listening to this podcast you can be connecting on facebook with people and and maybe some of that is an illusion like maybe some of that social media is it's not really real like you know like are are those people really your friends like your deep friends but i found in my own life that it gave me tremendous strength, and it helped me when I was really down.

When no one in my immediate community was understanding me, I was able to get a sign from the universe via social media, via an email, via something that would always lift me and sort of give me the, okay, keep going, someone does care about this information. Yeah, so this issue of judgment, or perhaps more aptly put, non-judgment, is very commingled and intertwined with this subject of community. So these are like the two prongs that I wanted to explore today. And I think that you hit the nail on the head when you said that Josh never lost his love for the people in his life. So what I get out of that is that the solution is not to separate yourself, right? Like, oh,

I'm different in this binary way of saying, well, I live my life this way. These people live their life that way. So I'm going to, you know, put my arm, my hand up and remove myself from that community because I'm different. That's not necessarily the solution. So because Josh has such a big heart and he does care so deeply about those people in his life. And he doesn't judge them. He was able to connect with them, even if they were seeing things a little bit differently, and to create a bridge so that they could not only coexist peacefully, but grow together. Definitely.

And I think one of the great tools and the great wisdoms is to be able to separate the soul or the heart or the person from the action. You can look at somebody, as we do in our own marriage, and say, I don't like what you did. I'm not in alignment with your action, but I love you unconditionally. and it's a very different thing than to say i hate what you did and slam a door and so in my in my mother experience with my own children i try to experience i try to express that with them like why and i always clarify it like while i may not like what you did i love you and i'm committed to you so the action's very different. The second thing is, is that there's a difference between judgment and discernment. And this is a very, very important thing to understand in spiritual practice. Because in the beginning, when you start studying more awakened states of living, the human mind wants to separate. They want to say, this is good, and that is bad. And if you're saying that is bad, and this other person is

doing it, then inherently they are bad. And it happens in any isms, like any isms that we set up. And so, for instance, in veganism, there's a lot of polarization between people that are all doing their part in their own way for the good, and it is affecting things in a good way, but it might be a little different reflection or a little different expression. So, I think that we need to really cultivate our wisdom and our awareness and our understanding of what is judgment, which is sort of separating and drawing the line and critical and analytical. And then what is discernment? So discernment is for me in my life, for my vibration, for my soul mission, vibration for my soul mission, I'm not going to engage in that activity. But I understand from a higher perspective that even though I'm not engaging in that activity, there may be a higher

divine purpose or that might be a necessary element in that person's journey. Yeah, it's tricky, it's complicated, and it can be very subtle, right? Like, where do we draw the line? Like, if you say, I'm trying to practice non-judgment in my life, well, inherently, just because you've incarnated into the human body, you spend a lot of time judging. You know, we all do all day long. Like part of our brains are hardwired to make decisions. Like you said, this is good, this is bad, in oftentimes a very binary way. And that's how we tend to, you know, avoid danger and, you know, navigate the world as best as we can to, you know, be safe and make our way, etc. But at what point does judgment become necessary, right? If you say, look, it's not for me to judge

anyone else, like I'm trying to be non-judgmental. So, let's anchor it like in a very practical, real-world sense. If you're online, like there's a lot of noise, like there's a lot of opinions, we're coming up on an election, or all you have to do is watch, you know, vegan YouTube channels, like these people are all arguing with each other, everybody has a different point of view, there's a lot of low blows and character, you know, assassinations going on. And I've often thought, like, do I have a responsibility to offer an opinion here? Or do I exempt myself? Like, I want to be nonjudgmental of other people's journey and be this lighthouse and just stand in my truth and emit that frequency and try to attract

like-minded people to that. And by just sort of, you know and walking my talk, that is how I see myself in the best way for me to advocate that's in alignment with my personality. actually, you know what, I need to say that this is wrong and this is bad, and I do have a judgment on this, and that's rooted in my experience and everything that I've learned. And, you know, my advocacy now is turning towards trying to arrest whatever this behavior that I see out in the world that I think is causing ill or harm. Yeah. I mean, again, I would say that it's refined levels of understanding the difference between judgment and discernment because energetically when you say the word judgment it feels like a low vibrating uh quality a low vibrating energy it's not a high vibrating energy and i don't think anybody that ever needed needed help needed a hand, needed awareness, needed support, ever changed from the energy of judgment.

Judgment simply shuts down and creates separation. Now, if we move to the word discernment, it has a very different energetic quality. So, if there is a train barreling down the tracks, I'm not going to stand in front of the train because, you know, for whatever reason and get run over by the train. It's discernment. Right, but that speaks to your own personal behavior as opposed to your opinion on somebody else's behavior. Okay, so again, going to opinions, what is an opinion? And who are you in the planet? And who are you in the cosmos?

opinion and who are you in the planet and who are you in the cosmos and where is the arrogance of humanity that we think we know what's right for everybody else in every case we don't where you can share and what this is the cultivation of the change that is happening on the planet is happening from people sharing their own personal perspectives which is rooted rooted in experience. That's all we can do. That's all I'm doing here on this show with you. That's all I'm doing in everything that I'm sharing. I'm sharing my own personal experience. That's why I eat coconut oil and I cook with nuts, because that's my personal experience.

I had my own journey, my own healing experience. I can only share from my own experience and remain authentic I can't look to you know you know forks over knives or other people who don't use oil I respect them I respect them in their decision I don't draw a line or a separation and say they're bad and I'm good or I'm bad or they're good I'm simply living my own perspective so I think it's a perspective is the word not judgment judgment is not ever going to if you're if you're using it in that way if you're saying if you're if you're mixing and you're saying

judgment is discernment but discernment is a different thing it's like you make choices in your life and they affect your life that's discernment that's wisdom but it's not done with animosity or a feeling of i'm better than someone else and one of the things that's been interesting recently for me is i've been coming to this awareness of, you know, just consider, like, let's just say that, let's just go on a little fantasy and imagine if you were a multidimensional being, what identities would you have embodied in all those thousands of, you know, lifetimes or simultaneous times, what would they be?

Would you have been a prince? Would you have been an actor? Would you have been a bum? Would you have been a drunk? Would you have been a father? Would you have been a thief? Would you have caused harm, killed somebody? I really feel like spiritual maturity is when you understand that you either were or you could have been any of those things any of those

identities and so for me it's to judge someone else is it's's almost not, it's not possible because I feel myself in all of them. I feel myself in every flavor of creation. And with that awareness gives a maturity and an ability to allow people their own experience. And now also trusting in something beyond, that there is a greater force, and that by committing ourselves to that greater force in devotion, in love, in service, in commitment, and doing the very, very best that we can to live our own unique divine blueprint,

that somehow, by the grace of divine mother something extraordinary and miraculous will evolve will bloom if you boil that down to brass tacks what you're really saying is the more that you can cultivate empathy in your life, the drive or compulsion to judge starts to evaporate. Beautifully put. Right? So if you have a deep sense of empathy, then you're able to see the gray in everything, right? And you're able to see beyond your own ego and agenda

to the humanity in everybody. In other words, to say that we all have our own truth and that we lack the perspective to make a judgment call on the inherent value of any person's decisions or experiences. Beneath that, though, I mean, if you want to go down some kind of philosophical rabbit hole, there is some objective moral truths that exist in the world. We all have our subjective truths about our lives, and everybody is operating under their version of what that truth is. And I think it is wise to cultivate that level of empathy and to stay out of judging other people's experiences and truths. But at some point when somebody's subjective truth contravenes what I think we could all agree is a kind of a moral imperative, is there not some compulsion to act or to speak, right? I mean,

that's why we have the rule of law and all of that. Very amazing question and very, very deep thing to contemplate. Right. So, sorry, I don't want to interrupt, but just to finish that thought, what is our responsibility? What is your responsibility as somebody who's lived a life and has certain experiences when you observe something that, you know, you can see through your empathy to an objective wrong that perhaps could be could be cured could be course corrected should you choose to act or to speak okay well what I would say to that is I would say that if you can cure it within yourself, then you can cure it within the world. If it's really clear within yourself and completely healed,

then you have a chance of curing it in the world. What I'm saying is it's all an inside job. So what would be an example of that? Well, anything. I mean, you know, anything. I don't know if I can really articulate it in that way, but just getting back to morals, I just want to say something before this leaves my consciousness,

and then I'll get back to that, is, you know, what are morals and what are rules and, you know, what are something like the Ten Commandments or, youments or anything, ahimsa in yogic tradition, if you look at a very pure way of being and living, if one knows himself or herself and is living in alignment with those values at a very, very deep level,

the actions are spontaneously correct, are spontaneously high in high alignment. So we don't need rules or morals. Like, I'm afraid of moral, of that word morals, because morals could imply a dogma that you impose on another being. like let's just take sexuality for example, somebody could have a moral opinion that having sex with same-sex people is evil. And what I'm saying is there are so many types of life forms in creation, you can't make a moral setup that applies to every situation in every condition. And so in Tantra, the whole point of practice, yoga practice, is to be aligned with yourself naturally. So if you give charity or support or a gift, it's a spontaneous act and it's disconnected from your ego or identity. If you're in right alignment, you will not harm. You would not harm someone out of alignment.

Now, this doesn't mean that let's say somebody broke into your house and they were going to kill your children. You would kill them to protect your children. That's not bad alignment. It's spontaneous within the thing. Are you going to say, I'm a peaceful person, so then go ahead? So these are the little intricacies, and I think that because of religions and because of dogma, we get caught up in this morality, and then somehow the ego attaches to it and thinks it has a job to do, to teach someone else how to be moral.

of Julie Pyatt and formerly Julie Mathis, you could write my life and you could make me out to be a horrible person, a whore, a drug addict, a gold digger. I mean, I could do it. So, you know, I've chosen this perspective. And, you know, I giggle, I giggle because we had some, we have some interference at our house a long time ago with a very dark energy that actually sold me the land to the house. And at some point during our dark night, they had to send a cleaning crew over to our house to clear the trees and the brush for fire. And we had no money to pay for it. So it was attached to a tax bill or something. And the crew came. And they had been told by this disgruntled neighbor that we shot

pornography at our house and it took me two whole days to figure it out she was acting very weird and i stood next to her and just in my center point for a very long time and i actually asked you to leave and i stayed there with her i have have no memory. This is a very profound experience that happened. And I discovered that she had been told that we were pornography, we made pornography. And she was, after she sort of checked it all out, she was like, yeah, I think you guys are just creative and I don't see anything weird going on here. But I giggled after the whole thing. I ended up sending her away, of course, with a copy of Autobiography of a Yogi from Yogananda. But the point of me telling the story right now

is that it was a hilarious perspective as I reflected in meditation that here I fancied myself this spiritual being, a seeker and somebody who only know only cares about our connection to God and here this other person viewed me as a pornographer which actually was not true in any way but what I'm saying is it's really all about perspective and so it's an inside job so I would say that many of us have a lot of inner work to do and to attend to before we start judging other people. And so it's the old thing, you don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. And, you know,

all of us will be on our knees at some point in our life. Life does not let anyone off of that. So in a way, there's no need for you to judge or for us to judge or for us to tell another person. And as we always say, the best, most powerful thing is to be a living example. Keep becoming more and more clear, more expanded, more in alignment, more authentic, more loving. Be that and walk in a room and have everybody just, you know, love, love you and feel love. Well, the adage is don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, but everybody lives in a glass house, right? We're all deeply flawed. I'm a highly, highly, deeply flawed individual. And that's why I experienced discomfort at the prospect of levying judgment on someone else, because I wouldn't want that coming in my direction. And I'm hardly a perfect human being, right? So we're all open and available for being judged by others. And we live in a culture in which it's not only encouraged,

but it's rewarded, you know, on the level of, you know, insanity with social media, etc. Like the sort of celebration of schadenfreude that exists when, you know, somebody is hoisted from their petard is, you know, very troubling. It's a very troubling trend in, you know, in our current society. And I think that, you know, maybe I'm just a sensitive person, but I remember, like, when I was practicing law, when I was a litigator, one of the things that was very difficult for me was that I was always able to see the other side's argument. Like your job is to advocate for your client, right? To like just get behind them 110% and see the world their way and argue on their behalf. But I was always like, yeah, but that guy's got a good point over there you know I kind of get where he's kind of like can I switch sides you know like that's not good I mean it's good in the

in an as an intellectual exercise to be able to understand all the arguments and that arms you with the ability to then you know come up with counter arguments to the arguments that you understand but at the same time I don't know that it made me a very good advocate. And I remember thinking, like, I'm just, I think I'm just too sensitive for this, because I could just live in the gray, you know, and I think the gray is where we all live. And I think cultivating a deeper sense of awareness about that is, you know, not the worst thing that you can do. Absolutely. And I mean, just to kind of stay on point with part of your and my message is going into this vegan movement and really the issue of, you know, I don't go on those YouTube channels, so I don't really know what's going on. I just hear it from you. Like, I'm kind of like not

really in that world, but because I don't like to call myself a vegan or like raise a flag. I hashtag vegan, but, you know, I just don't like rules around me. And, you know, I was raised in Alaska on gay meat, as most of you know, who listen to the podcast. And, you know, my dad was a hunter. And in many ways, I have deep respect for my father, because at least he knew what he was doing. He wasn't going to buy a package in a store completely disconnected. And so if he could do what he did and skin something and carry it, completely disconnected. And so if he could do what he did and skin something and carry it, you know, and sleep on a glacier and fly across, you know, in a tin can across Mount McKinley,

well, I guess he can eat it. You know, who am I to say he can't eat it? And I think within our own lives, I mean, in the early days, you know, PETA was the first one to really, one of the first ones to recognize us and really help you. And we needed that help desperately at that time. And, you know, they came in and they were coming to recognize us and really help you. And we needed that help desperately at that time. And, you know, they came in and they were coming to our house and you and I were freaking out because I was like, oh shit, you know, we have like a leather chair. Like, are we going to get blood thrown on us? You know, and much to our delight, you know, Lisa was really amazing

and very, very, you know, kind of relaxed about it. And which I know is not, you know, always their MO, but at least in our home, she was like that. And, you know, I think it's just a process, you know, we have to respect that everybody has their own process. And like, for instance, with leather shoes, you know, I know a lot of vegan women and they're, you know, animal rights activists, like hardcore, and then they draw the line at leather vegan shoes. And I get it because, you know, plastic shoes really get it because, you know, plastic shoes really hurt your feet, you know,

and you end up with bunions and weird shaped feet after a few years. So the way that I've dealt with it is I just don't buy new ones, you know, but I'm old enough that I have like some good shoes and I just took them and got them all repaired at the shoe repair guy. And I was so happy to have my, my shoes back. But

if you see me, you'll see me in a pair of leather shoes. You know, I mean, that's where I'm at. It's like, I'm not, I'm not perfect. I'm not exact. I'm not black and white. But I think that every day, we all can strive or can have the intention to look deeper into our footprint. You know, what kind of waste are you leaving behind in your work? What kind of waste are you leaving behind in the activities that you choose to do? Are you doing anything that's excessive? And can we simplify and, you know, try to find sustainable companies that, you know, maybe it's worse to buy a bunch of vegan fast fashion and get new clothes every season that pollute, you know, who knows what's in a lot of the synthetics, you don't know.

Or is it, or is it. You have to have like a 10,000 foot view on everything. view on everything. You know, if you're going to the vintage clothing store and buying a used pair of leather boots, you know, that have existed on the planet for 20 years. Which I love, I love doing that. What is the, like, if you, like, if you just approach it from an ethical and sustainability perspective, what is the, you know, Ahimsa equation or the harm created by that versus you know buying a bunch of vegan or fast fashion clothes that come out of a you know some kind of crazy you know factory uh in the third world where they're creating you know incredibly toxic runoff

that's going into the rivers that's killing a bunch of fish. So even though it's technically vegan, if you look at the whole chain of supply, the harm that it's causing is perhaps greater. And I think the more you can kind of cultivate a 10,000 foot view, that allows you to also generate a deeper level of non-judgment, right? Because we're all living in this world and none of us are perfect and we all require resources to live. And those resources and the decisions that we make about how we live our life have ramifications, create ripple effects around the world, some bigger than others. But to be aware that none of us are exempt from that, I think, you know, allows you to tap into that gray space

and cultivate a little bit more empathy and non-judgment. Yeah, and trust that, you know, just because someone else in the vegan movement or in uh you know just say planetary stewardship or sustainability or trying to draw awareness um isn't exactly like you uh they are needed and they are reaching some set of people and we need all of us all of us are needed so um it's not about the person who's out there judging people like crazy well i mean that's their choice I would you know in my from my perspective I would say that that's not very constructive but I'm not going to spend time in there I'm not gonna go in there and judge that person or tell that person that's just me getting sucked into it no I'm gonna

go keep creating my amazing recipes and put out my yoga videos. I'm saying like even, you know, like forget about like the plant-based movement and any of that. Just like in general, like in the world on any issue. Again, the only way we can truly transform the world is by transforming ourselves. And if by enough of us finding that light and embodying it and standing up and screaming from the mountaintops, not obnoxiously, but in true delight, in true joy, in true desire for a better way, that's how we will affect a change. And it becomes infectious because the energy will draw more energy to it. You'll ignite other people that are just on the edges of awakening into their own voice. And we're at a crucial moment. It is very important that we all use all of our energy to the best of our ability to find our authentic voice and live that full on, full out, full on.

It'll come in a million different varieties, a million different expressions because life is like that. But if we all do that, which is such a, what an amazing mission to know yourself. What a great gift that that's what we get to do. Stop looking out at all this other stuff and try to stay away from the rules, the isms, the judgments. It's not important. Cultivate within yourself and turn the mirror inside your own heart. Clear what's imbalanced inside your own heart. There's no need to judge.

No one gets away with anything. Everything is answered for. So any ill or anything that's affected in this life will be answered for in its universal law. It will happen. We don't need humans to be doing that. And the work is never done, right? You can never reach the bottom of that, you know, search to cultivate the maximum amount of, you know, authentic expression in your life. Like, you know, you can devote your entire life to that. And that's a worthy devotion. It is the most worthy devotion. And I believe, I mean, that has been the answer for me. You know, I think that this podcast and everything that's grown out of it in the community that has flourished around it is a result of a persistent, constant practice of accepting myself and continually trying to work on what needs to be worked on as imperfectly as that is and has been.

Yeah, definitely. right as imperfectly as that is and has been yeah definitely by doing that and speaking to that and being open about that and allowing myself to be vulnerable about that to invite people into that journey and invite them as well to do that in their own lives i think has been you know, sort of the secret sauce in this podcast adventure. Absolutely. And I mean, the work, the evolution just goes on for eternity. So once we've evolved to a certain level here, I mean, really, if you look at the whole picture, like we're really just, you know, ants, even smaller than ants. So we're not really that significant in the whole thing. But we're significant and insignificant, both at the same time. But if we, it'll just go forever. Like once you light body from here, then there's a whole nother, you know, experience. It's just, you know, it's the feminine principle. She's creating always, always for eternity. We'll never stop. We'll never stop. There was an article that I read yesterday that actually Dan McPherson tweeted it. that they believe has the potential to be extraterrestrial. But not only that, to be extraterrestrial from a very advanced civilization that's like 96 million light years away or something like that. In the future, probably.

Well, there was some aspect of the signal because of the way it was being emitted like in all directions at the same time with great force, that is leading them to believe that this is very advanced. And it's very early on. There's much work to be done to figure out what exactly is going on. And who knows? I have no experience or knowledge about how all of this stuff works. But I think just reading that, like we're in a time now where, I don't know if you've noticed this, but with regularity, you'll read news stories and you're like, is that satire or is that real?

Like the crazy advances that are occurring on an almost daily basis are coming with such regular frequency that you're like, oh, yeah, like, oh, you know, artificial intelligence is now doing this. Like things are happening very very quickly and to me it's easy to get numbed out and go oh here's another crazy thing that like if you told me 10 years ago i would have said was absolutely impossible but when i read stories like that like i don't know if that's true or not or what's really going on there but at least it infuses me with a little bit more humility and a sense of awe that the greater play that is going on is so much more vast than our small brains are able to comprehend that it's not really my business, you know, what somebody else is doing. Like, how can I- We're like- We're like- I'm like trying to figure out, dude, you're wearing leather shoes or,

you know, you, you ate meat or you're eating fake meat or like whatever it is. It's just, it's, you know, listen, it's just a, it's a, it's a level, but yeah, it's, to me, it's incredibly inspiring and expansive and adventurous and, and, and hopeful. It's like we're much more than a human body. And the one thing that I just want to share is the thing that will keep you in alignment and keep you safe and keep you connected through all of the craziness that's going on as we sort of the veil thins, we call it. The veil is thinning and there are many life forms here on the planet and other stuff going on that we we've never even seen before and your your way your compass is to connect with your inner heart to connect with directly to source and understand that the human being is a divine being it has a divine blueprint and we've forgotten that we've've been separated from it. And there's the allure of consumerism

and wanting to stay young and buy more, achieve more, get more. All of this kind of noise that's happening. Also, a lot of the AI is not high vibrating. It's very, very, very, very malevolent to humans. So understand you're a divine being. Spend the time, cultivate that, understand that you are God, you're an emanation of God, and you incarnated on this planet at this moment in time

to grab that, to remember that and reignite that, however that is for you. This is a beautiful time to be on the planet. We should be moving forth in joy, in hope, and with all the energy we can muster to cultivate the higher vibrating energies and experiences. So again, there's only love and we have to not buy into the fear programs, to the different events that are being perpetrated on the planet in an effort to keep us from our true nature. I think that's a beautiful place to cap it. I can't imagine ending it on a better note than that. But before we close it down, thank you, that was beautiful.

Before we close it down, I kind of wanted to circle back a little bit to this idea of community where we kicked it off. And, you know, what I would like to do is try to cultivate greater community around you guys, the listeners, around the podcast audience. And I don't know what that looks like specifically, specifically, but I'm interested in creating new ways of doing that. You know, we get lots of emails from a lot of different people from all over the world. It's incredibly touching and moving to receive that and to know that people are being impacted by this program and the work that Julie and I are doing. But how can we, you know, bridge the gap between, you know, where we are and what we're doing and what all of you guys are doing out there. So whether that means, you know, creating

a new Facebook page, you know, at least in the virtual landscape to allow some discussion and some connection around the podcast, I'd be open to doing that. You know, a Reddit thread, there actually is a Reddit thread under my name right now. It's reddit.com forward slash r forward slash richroll, but no one uses it. So I don't think that's the solution. So if anybody has any thoughts on how we could achieve that, I'd be very interested in hearing that. You can send us an email. in hearing that, you can send us an email.

Beyond that, perhaps being better about doing meetups when we're in cities, beyond public appearances, like, hey, we're going to eat here, whoever wants to come or whatever. I want to be able to connect with people in a more in-depth way than we have to date. And do you have any ideas on how we could do that? Yeah, I mean, I think it would be great. I mean, I think eventually... Live podcast is another thing that I've talked a lot about and have yet to do.

That would be good. I think that eventually having a platform that is actually a subscription community is quite powerful, where you can go deeper and more specific into, you know, individual needs and questions. So that would be something. But in the meantime, what some of my listeners on my podcast, Divine ThruLine, they've created a Facebook page. And so I've just made three of them admins and they're starting to, we're starting to get that up and running. And, you know, I don't have time for it right now and they're they're creating the space and um you know it's worked really well with plant power italia we have a closed group for that community so i think it's maybe something like that would be really

awesome for the rich roll podcast yeah that could be cool and you know i i have this patreon account now that you know is for people that really want to go the extra mile and donate to the show. But I want to be able to use that in a way that is of service to the people that are doing that, right? Like if you donate a certain amount, then maybe I can do a monthly, you know, Google Hangout or, you know, I don't know. monthly Google Hangout or I don't know. I don't know specifically what that would look like, but I want to leverage that platform in a way that is more productive for the people that are contributing. Right. So if any of you have any ideas or any suggestions, let Rich know. His schedule is super busy and it would be great if it was something that was streamlined and easy for you to drop in or provide content for. So we just need to figure out the structure.

But I think it would be immense. I mean, I know when I'm out in the community and I meet your podcast fans, they're passionate and they're committed. And I think that they would enjoy this kind of interaction with you. Yeah, I think it would be great. So thanks. All right. So community and non-judgment. Those are the two big themes today.

I think the biggest takeaway is work on cultivating the best version of yourself, which is obviously the macro theme of this podcast. version of yourself, which is obviously the macro theme of this podcast, and to try to cultivate community in your own personal environment, both virtually and on a one-on-one basis if you're feeling lonely, right? Do you have any final thoughts on that? Yeah, I would say that remember that you are a divine emanation of God and you were created from a very special, unique blueprint. We need you to be more of who you are. So spend your life cultivating that relationship with yourself

and you will bless yourself and everyone around you in the highest divine way. All right. Excellent. I think we did it. Beautiful. Yeah. Thanks, Julie. Thanks, darling.

All right, you guys. So I will see you back here in a couple days at the most one week from now. If you're digging on Julie, she's easy to find on the Internet. She's at Srimati, S-R-I-M-A-T-I, on Instagram and Twitter. But you're really killing it on Instagram right now with all the food photos. Like, Julie's hard at work on this cheese book, plant-based cheese book that she's trying to deliver. And the photography and the recipes that are coming out of our kitchen factory right now are absolutely insane. So if you want to tap into that, check that out.

And of course, Julie's podcast, Divine Through Line. Yeah, Divine Through Line is on iTunes and also on SoundCloud. And if you want more spiritual soul food, go there. And also subscribe to my newsletter on my website, srimati.com, for soul food and also free recipes every week. I'm sorry to be teasing you with the cheese. I have a new hashtag that's called cheese tease. It was given to me by another Instagram follower.

I got to find him, but it was very funny. I think he's a chef too. Cause you're putting up all these amazing. Yeah. And then I don't get the recipe. Everyone's recipe, please.

Yeah. No, I'm trying to write a book right now. Right now. But anyway, I will, I am giving recipes on the weekly newsletter and also, recipe everyone's recipe please yeah no you're trying to write a book right now right no um but anyway i will i am giving recipes on the weekly newsletter and also you know i'll find some way to to um to give you some gifts and teach you some stuff but anyway yeah so subscribe to the newsletter so you can get um that early uh early notice and early feed i'm way early it's the release is in

2017 so i don't know exactly when it is. And I just want to thank my beautiful and amazing soul sister, Leah, for taking some amazing photos and being my yoga soul sister. Yeah, she's doing a great job. And also, if you haven't signed up for my newsletter, you can do that at richroll.com.

In addition to weekly podcast updates, I send out something every Thursday called Roll Call, which is a really short email blast with just some cool recommendations, things that I enjoyed reading over the past week or listening to or products that I think are cool. Just a really basic kind of thing. But people have been enjoying it. The feedback's good. And I'm having a good time putting that together every week so you can do that.

All right. Peace. Plants. Namaste. If you miss the train I'm on You will know that I am gone You can hear the whistle blow A hundred miles A hundred miles, a hundred miles

A hundred miles, a hundred miles You can hear the whistle blow A hundred miles Lord, I'm one Lord, I'm two Lord, I'm three Lord, I'm three Lord, I'm four Lord, I'm 500 miles

From my home 500 miles 500 miles 500 miles, 500 miles, 500 miles, 500 miles Lord, I'm 500 miles from my home Not a shirt on my bed Not a penny to my name Lord, I can't go home This away home this away this away this away this away this away lord i can't go on this away

If you miss the train I'm on You will know that I am gone You can hear the whistle blow A hundred miles Thank you.