The Rich Roll Podcast - IN-Q On Reimagining Your Truth

Episode Date: April 21, 2014

The past couple weeks we went deep into nutrition. Now it's time to take a new direction. To delve into spirit. Creativity. And art. All powerful vehicles for connecting with, unlocking and ultimately expressing the authentic truth of who you are — the crux of life transformation. Today we Reimagine Your Truth. Today we meet IN-Q. Rapper. Actor. Teacher. Songwriter & internationally revered spoken word artist. Wait a minute — what?? A poet? How could spoken word, rap music and this guy possibly have anything to do with the themes of this show? I can read your mind. I get it. But I ask you to please reserve whatever preconceived ideas or opinions you may have about what's to come. Because ignorance is contempt prior to investigation. I promise you this — after this interview you won’t be asking yourself that question. I first met IN-Q up at a thing called Summit Series — an organization that began in 2008 with a small group of young entrepreneurs harboring a giant collective dream to change the world. Led by an enterprising young man named Eliot Bisnow (who coincidentally went to my high school), Summit began as an annual four-day events for 1,000 of the world’s leading entrepreneurs, nonprofit leaders, artists, scientists, athletes, and change makers with the intention of driving positive growth and collaboration. The events were extremely successful. But Summit has since evolved far beyond a mere producer of TED-like events. Today, it stands tall as a truly unique community of compelling thought leaders who truly are changing the world. About a year ago, the Summit organization took up permanent residence in Eden, Utah — a quiet hamlet north of Salt Lake nestled in the Wasatch Mountains — when they purchased a mountain. That’s right: an entire mountain & functioning ski resort called Powder Mountain. Not just any ski resort, “PowMow” is in fact the largest ski mountain in the entire United States. Ambitious? It's just the beginning. Summit's goal is to unite thought leaders and innovators of today and tomorrow by over time growing this now small community into an international epicenter of culture and innovation across all disciplines of art, music, technology, entertainment, science, literature, social entrepreneurism and education. Eliot invited Julie and I up to Powder Mountain this past winter to speak and simply enjoy a weekend getting to know Summit. Honestly, I didn’t know what to expect. I had known the Summit crew for a couple years – in fact Julie taught them a yoga class back in 2008 when it was just a small group of people with big dreams cohabitating in a house in Malibu — but had yet to experience it for myself. I have to say it was a transformative experience. I left completely inspired. One of the most compelling people we met was none other than today's guest — IN-Q. I'll be upfront. I’m not a poetry guy. I’m not a hip hop guy. These are foreign worlds I know very little to nothing about. On the surface, IN-Q is therefore an unlikely choice for the podcast. But I was so impressed with this man. The moment I met him I knew instantly that I had to have him on the show. Before each group dinner up at Summit, IN-Q would deliver a poem – a true demonstration of performance art to set the energy of the evening. More prayer than poem. More inspirational panegyric than prayer even. I simply had never heard anything like it before. It was completely unique. But it's not just IN-Q's mad skills that left my jaw agape. To be sure, he is oozing with talent and displays total command over his instrument and art. It was his spirit that truly moved me. Enjoy! Rich

Welcome to the Rich Roll Podcast, Episode 81, with spoken word artist, NQ. The Rich Roll Podcast. All right, let's do this, people. Welcome to the show, to the series of uplifting, spirit-elevating conversations known as the RRP. I'm Rich Roll. I'm your host. I'm the guy behind the mic. I'm here to light fires, catalyze change, broaden horizons, and help you blow through the glass ceiling on your innate human potential. Not just physically, not just mentally, but emotionally, professionally, creatively, and spiritually. The goal, my goal for you is simple, to motivate and inspire you

to take your life to the next level, to help you discover, unlock, and unleash your best, most authentic self. And in the words of today's guest, help you reimagine your truth. So how do we do this? What's the path? The tip of the spear is to each week introduce you guys by way of the lost art of long conversation, in-depth Vulcan mind melds, if you will, to the best, most forward-thinking paradigm-busting minds when it comes to life transformation, thought and action leaders in health, fitness, wellness, diet, nutrition, creativity, art, entrepreneurship, and above all, and once again, life transformation.

You see the recurring theme here, everybody. Last two weeks, we went really deep into the powerful disease prevention and reversal possibilities presented by the plant-based diet. Wow, that's a lot of P's. That's a lot of alliteration. Well, today we're going to shift gears. We're going to go in a totally different direction. And we're going to trade in all of those P's for A's for art, authenticity, aspiration, and actualization. and actualization. Today, we're going to delve into spirit, really, into the transformative power of unlocking and expressing your authentic self. Today, we reimagine your truth. Today, we meet NQ. Who is NQ? Rapper, actor, teacher, songwriter, and revered spoken word artist. Wait, what? Poetry? What could this

guy possibly have to do with the themes of this show? I can hear your thoughts. I get it. But please reserve your preconceived ideas about what this guy is about or what you think this conversation is going to be. As I always say, ignorance is contempt prior to investigation. And I promise you that after this conversation, after this interview, you will not be asking yourself that question. This is a really special conversation that Julie and I had with this remarkable young man and one I'm really excited to share with you guys. So by way of background, I first met NQ, Julie and I first met NQ up at this thing called Summit Series. How to explain Summit? Well, basically, Summit is an organization that began, I think, back in like 2008, with a small group of young entrepreneurs, very much forward-thinking, paradigm-busting minds, with huge dreams to change the world. And it's led by a very enterprising young man named Elliot Bisnau,

who began, some series began with these events. They hosted these annual four-day events for about a thousand people, a thousand of the world's leading entrepreneurs and nonprofit leaders and artists, scientists, athletes, and change makers really to the idea is and was and continues to be to drive positive growth and collaboration among these exceptional individuals. And the events were extremely successful. And about a year ago, Summit, which has become much more like a community than a producer of events, about a year ago, they took up permanent residence in Eden, Utah, which is a small town about an hour north of Salt Lake City, when they purchased a mountain. That's right. They purchased an entire mountain. It's called Powder Mountain.

It's this gem in the Wasatch Range, and it includes like a full functioning ski resort. It's not just any ski resort. Actually, Powder Mountain is the largest ski mountain in the United States. And it was kind of this underappreciated asset that was sitting out there. And they have now made this their permanent home. And the goal is to open this up to individuals to unite thought leaders and innovators of today and tomorrow. So they kind of bring people in and they're creating this amazing community there. And over time, the idea is that they're going to grow this small community into what they imagine will be an epicenter of culture and innovation. It's really

a cool thing. And Elliot invited Julie and I up to Powder Mountain this past winter, a couple months ago, for me to speak and for us to simply enjoy the community and the weekend and get to know a little bit more about Summit and kind of what they're doing. And honestly, I didn't know what to expect. I've been familiar with Summit and I've known the Summit people for a couple of years now. In fact, Julie actually was the first one to meet them. She taught them a yoga class back in 2008 when summit was just a small group of people, uh, with big dream sharing a house in Malibu. Um, they were all cohabitating in this house. And I remember Julie was kind of, uh, dispatched by a friend out there like, Hey, they, you know, there's this house with this

group of people and they want somebody to come and teach them yoga. And Julie's like, well, it's not really what I do, but he, you know, he, she kind of did it as a favor. And I remember when she came back from this experience and she said, I don't know what these guys are doing or who these guys are, but there's something really special, um, about them. And, uh, it was not long after that, that I became familiar with what their mission is. And it's just interesting that it's kind of come full circle. And now we've had an experience to see them grow and kind of experience what they're doing up at Powder Mountain. And when we went up there, we had this incredible weekend. It was an amazing weekend. It was transformative in so many ways. And we met so many incredible people and we left really blown away and very inspired by their mission. And, you know, the takeaway really is that, that anything

is possible and to use their tagline, like make no small plans. And, and definitely that has inspired me to kind of take, you know, what we're doing and take it to a higher level. And it was just really, it was, it was just a really amazing experience. And so one of the most inspiring people that Julie and I met over the course of these couple days up at this mountain was NQ. And look, I'm not a poetry guy. I'm not a hip hop guy. These are worlds that I know, you know, little to nothing about. So, you know, on a surface level, in queue is a very unlikely choice for this podcast. But I was so struck by this man. And I knew that the instant that I met him, that I had to have him on the show. And it's not just his skills. I mean,

he's a giant ball of talent, with total command over his instrument and his art, but it was really his spirit, his energy, and this positive resonating message that he conveys through his art and his writing and his voice. To kind of paint the picture, before each dinner, they had these group dinners up at Summit. There were hundreds of people at these dinners. Inky would get up and he would deliver a poem to kind of set the energy for the evening. And these poems were just extraordinary.

They were really almost more like prayers than poem or more inspirational panjurics than prayers even. And I simply had never heard anything like it before. It was remarkable, completely unique. And I was moved, you know, very moved by the experience of seeing this gentleman perform. And then Julie and I had a chance to spend a little time with him. And it was very clear that he's a special guy, a very special guy. And one of those people who's just touched and you feel it, you know it the minute that you meet him. To kind of give you a little bit of a background and flesh it out a little bit. NQ is a national poetry slam

champion who's shared the stage, I should say, with artists like De La Soul and Eminem and the Red Hot Chili Peppers and John Legend. And he's even performed on stage with Cirque du Soleil. I believe he's the first poet to ever perform on a Cirque du Soleil stage. So that's pretty cool. He's toured over 70 colleges with his one-man show. And he's also a musician. He's written hit songs for Miley Cyrus and Rock Mafia. And he co-wrote Selena Gomez's hit song, Love You Like a Love Song.

So the guy is sort of multifaceted and multi-talented. He's been featured on HBO's Deaf Poetry Jam, Versus and Flow, The Discovery Channel, Disney Channel, ABC, NBC, A&E, Nickelodeon, etc. I'm not going to give away his story. You'll have to hear it through our conversation, but it is one that you're going to want to hear, that you're going to want to stay tuned for the whole thing, and one that no doubt is going to make a powerful impression on you. Not only will it move and inspire you, it will help you reframe your perception on life. It will help you, in the words of the man himself, reimagine your truth.

So let's dig his body. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care,

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And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. I actually, it's funny, I think I looked older when I was 25. Yeah. I was really kind of like an angry person in my 20s. I think it really showed up on my face, you know.

Of course it does. And now you're a love child. I feel happy. That's right. Yeah. I know. You embody some beautiful energy. I want to get into the spiritual journey from here to there,

energy. I want to get into the spiritual journey from here to there, but I thought you could bless us by opening this up with a little poem maybe to set the stage. Sure. Set the energy. Absolutely. I didn't know we had started. We're on, man. That's the way it works. It's a trick. We slide in.

You need me to get closer? Okay, cool. It's hard for me to say yes it's easier for me to say next year when the weather's fine when I have the money or the time or the relationship I want

or the career or want. Or the career. Or the house. Or the car. Or the watch. Watch life pass me by waiting for an invitation when the world is greater than my nation or my occupation. The only thing I know is that we're all in this together. And the future of this earth depends on how we treat each other. But how we treat each other starts with how we treat ourselves.

And how we treat ourselves starts with how we see ourselves. And how we see ourselves starts with context. Nothing can exist without its opposite. Remember this. The next time you find you're in an argument and both sides are talking shit and you forget your point except you're angry now and want to win. So you continue yelling till they give it up by giving in so you can stand victorious because you're right on what again? Seriously, what are we talking about? That's why we send young people to war.

Young people tend to die without asking what for but one man's ceiling is another man's floor let's meet up in between said the ocean to the shore hopelessly inquisitive a mind without a master i watched the master on a tab of acid then performed after and yet my set was an unparalleled disaster because all my poems came out as... Do you laugh on impulse or do you choose to laugh? Do you ask because you care or do you merely ask? I ask you this because I care about how humans act. We're animals aware of our future and our past. And this can be an obstacle to traveling our path.

Instead of just accepting where we're at, we analyze our tracks for what we could have had. Looking back, focused on the memories instead of on the facts, hence what we attract. But it's hard to factor in how fast it really flashes past. It's an exponential graph from creation into ash. I'm sentimental one minute, then I'm making plans, staking claims, shaking hands, breaking out or I have about a billion mimes hidden underneath my skin And they pull my face into this grin Or push my wrinkled forehead in So pour the gin, philosophize

Cause no one has your awesome eyes Your view is worth the lows and highs You go through on these coaster rides Control has got you holding on when letting go could be more fun. Hands up. Put your hands up. Wherever you are. Now feel the drop. Eventually it all has to stop. Level out then come back up until you reach the very top because one day all your wheels fall off. So take advantage of your shocks.

Do something you've never done. Do someone you've never done. Go someplace you've never gone. Someplace that could scare you some. Be someone you've never been. You feel all that adrenaline? It's medicine to jumpstart the spark inside your skeleton. skeleton see everywhere you are is where you're supposed to be so hopefully you're hopelessly as lost as me because if you're not you ought to be beautiful man that's just magic that's gorgeous yeah

thanks lovely i know i feel like right, the podcast is over. We got the transmission. What else needs to be said, right? That's right. It's quite a talent that you have, quite a facility for words and performance. And it kind of begs the question of the power of words, the power of intention, of the power of words, the power of intention, the power of the performance and what that carries in terms of communication as a human, right?

Yeah, and you always blow me away. I've seen you now maybe six times or so. Thanks. And you always take me, you just delight me and surprise me with your mastery over the use of words. And then you take me to a place that I never thought I would touch in this kind of expression. And then you go way beyond it. I love that. Thank you.

Your poetry really generally seems to orbit around a very positive forward-thinking message, but I gather in the little bit that I know you that this was not always the case or the place from where you were coming from. So I'm interested a little bit in your journey. It's been a long, long one. We want you to start at the beginning. well i'm from la and uh i was born and raised in santa monica and um which street about bay street

bay street and lincoln right across the street from tommy's. Okay, I didn't know that. It's like dog town kind of. It is, yeah. And, you know, was raised by my mom. She's a school teacher. And, you know, my father was not around, and so she raised me by herself. And I think when I was around 13, I got bit by the bug of hip- hop and just absolutely fell in love with it. Just the ability to express myself in any way that I wanted to. And I think what first drew me to it was freestyling, which I've kind of recently rediscovered.

And the ability to just express yourself for the sake of expressing yourself. You know, I think that's probably why a lot of people meditate is to let go of everything and put themselves in the moment. Or maybe that's what you find when you run, you know, as you just completely get into the zone. And for me, when I started, it was just an outlet for me to connect words in the moment and not think about anything else, but expression. Right. And I just absolutely fell in love with it. And, um, and so that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be, uh, an MC and I, you know, spent all of my time, uh, pursuing that. And I was, who were your guys? Like who were the guys you were listening to

and looking up to? I mean, it was a lot of people. There was a, I mean, I was, I was a real hip hop head. And when I grew up at the time that I grew up, it was really lucky. And I'm very grateful for it because there was a sense of ownership that people still had over hip-hop I mean it kind of hit the the mainstream for sure but the hip-hop that I was listening to was not about being successful it was about being great and being innovative and being unique and there were so many different styles that were popular amongst The the hip-hop scene simultaneously and

everybody was really distinct from each other and There was a sense that like if you became really popular for the wrong reasons you were selling out. Mm-hmm That certainly does not exist anymore You know, I kind of watched that transformation as, as a lot of people have. Um, but I was listening to the selling out is the win now, you know, the bling bling it's, it's, uh, it's certainly not looked down upon. Um, so, you know, but I was listening to trap call quest and uh gangstar and uh you know there was a band in la called freestyle fellowship uh far side uh the whole hieroglyphics crew and um you

know public enemy and eric b and rakam and um jayru the damager and Wu-Tang Clan. And I mean, you know, the list goes on and on. Um, I, I took shrooms when I was like 16 years old and listened to the Illmatic record, which is, uh, Nas. And I, I put my head up to the, to the speakers and I was like, just tripping balls, man. And I, I like just remember having this realization that Nas was God and that my whole life would make sense after that I'm saying oh I get it Nas is God you know so that's how much I respected hip-hop and the ability to express from it and I would say that's where my my first great was that it was that that was going on like in high school?

Yeah. Were you going to like Santa Monica High or something? Yeah, I went to John Adams Middle School in Santa Monica High. And so when do you start kind of performing and taking this to, you know, the outward world? Well, I mean, you really couldn't shut me up in high school. All did was freestyle i mean it was probably annoying as shit right you know like here he comes and i'm like i don't give a damn i expand my wingspan and i'm about to kill it uh sipping on a millis i'll give it you know it was like that was all that was just non-stop i wouldn't even do anything in classes other you know that I mean you got to get your 10,000 hours in that's it mastery right yeah yeah so um it was cool though it was just

like I said my opportunity to kind of get myself into the moment in a different way so I was freestyling with with all of my friends and you know we had different like MCs that were in the school and there were battles. Then I started writing, I think when I was 14 maybe, and then started recording with random kids who were doing producer stuff on four tracks and stuff like that. Then I actually made an album when I was 16 16 and 17 it's still probably the best thing that that i've ever done because it was just the um the purest thing really yeah that's how you

feel today yeah it came from um it was just absolute tribute isn't it you know yeah when you're that free yeah well this idea of freedom and uh we had um yesterday on the podcast uh i interviewed this guy wuda who's this tea master we're drinking this tea right now we're drinking this tea right now shout out to wuda yeah it's amazing and uh he you know he's dropping mad spiritual truths left and right both on the podcast and afterwards with all these crazy uh you know sort of zen tales and stories and everything like that but we were talking about this idea of freedom in form and he was using the example of a child that dances like when a five-year-old kid is dancing and a little girl is just free and there's no it's just impulse and and natural um you know sort of just letting letting herself do

what she wants to do right totally and and comparing that to like a master ballerina you know in the in the russian ballet or something like that who's been studying her whole life and her freedom when she dances is she's equally free but she's doing it within the construct of a form that she has mastered right allowing herself to be free within the confines or the rules of that particular discipline and i was thinking about that uh earlier today when i was thinking about you coming over and i was was thinking about how spoken word and freestyling and rap is very similar because you have to get into this state of consciousness where the thinking mind has to go away. When you're channeling and freestyling, it's going too fast for you to be thinking about what the next word is going to be. You have to be in this state of flow where you're tapped in

and you're so present in what you're doing to allow that to just work through you, to allow that mastery, that practice that you have worked on over the years to manifest itself. So in certain respects, that's like a meditation practice to be able to get into that like in an Eckhart Tolle like power of now kind of state of being right so as a youngster were you aware of that or is that just that's occurring as a result of just your passion for the music I think it was

uh it was occurring as a result of my passion for the music but I also think I was intrinsically aware of it I mean I had a lot of uh emotions I was a, but I also think I was intrinsically aware of it. I mean, I had a lot of emotions. I was a sensitive kid. I was an angry young man, and I just had a lot to get out, and I had a lot of thoughts, and my mind wouldn't shut off, and this is a way for me to turn on the faucet

and just kind of let it flow. My favorite thing still, and like I said, I've kind of just rediscovered that aspect of, of, uh, my creativity is the freestyling. But my favorite thing when I freestyle is when I, I surprise myself and I have absolutely no idea what that last word of the sentence is going to be. And then it just appears. So it's almost like I'm getting out of my own way right to become a channel for whatever uh is kind of pouring through me in that moment but that's felt I mean when you perform it's felt that you

don't know what that that you're just a channel and that you're that you don't even know what the last word is going to be well That's been my experience with you. And that's what's blown my mind like every time. You hear it. I mean, you hear it time and time again from painters or whatever their discipline is. Like, oh, it wasn't me. I showed up for it and it came through me. And that's what it is when you're in that kind of state of presence.

But if somebody were to ask you, well, all right, so it's kind of like when you're dreaming you know obviously you're creating that fantasy but you don't know what's going to happen next in your dream even though you're the one who's presenting the narrative but you're not consciously aware of it yeah totally but if somebody was to ask you well then where is it coming from if it's not your thinking brain like where what is the repository of that word that is flowing through you just when you need it? Well, I would start the question by or start answering the question by saying that I think probably some people misinterpret even the concept of like being a channel. And they almost feel like, well, when you're saying it wasn't me, it was something else.

It almost comes off as pretentious to some people when in reality, it's kind of the utmost of humility because, you know, my identity gets in my way when I'm performing. If I could completely take it out of the way and have a soul expression for a soul connection every time, that would be my goal. But, you know, sometimes my ego gets in there or my wounds get in there. And I'm coming from those two places which are really the same place when i'm coming from a channel place i i would say that i'm coming from my soul and when i'm coming from my soul uh my experiences matter you know the things that i've gone through my emotions matter uh but my identity doesn't matter, you know, because that's here today, gone tomorrow, you know, and, and as we all are, we're all made out of the same things, you know, uh, we're all

literally made out of stardust. And so if I could aspire to do one thing, it would be to, uh, to perform like stardust. And I and i i i do not even remotely come close to accomplishing that yet but i like the idea of the more fun i have when i'm doing it and the more open i am to it coming through me the more you know uh maybe it will continue to show up and in different ways yeah i mean i think that to, to kind of eradicate the ego when you, when you say like, I'm a channel for it, it is a, it is a statement of humility because you're saying it isn't me. It isn't my ego that produced this something it's coming from something outside of that. Um, but I think that when you say, you know, your goal is to, if you could just,

you know, take your performance out of whatever is informing that in your personality or your pain, know take your performance out of whatever is informing that in your personality or your pain i mean you do a marvelous job of kind of harnessing the truth that comes from that experience whether it's that pain or or some aspect of your ego to you know convey or communicate some kind of universal uh truth that we can all tap into and relate to. So there's a purpose for the ego, I think, in that expression, if done properly. Yeah. I think that when I express the ego through my soul, it's done properly. When I express my ego through my ego, people miss it. You know, when I express my pain through my soul, people get it. And when I express my pain through my pain, my soul people get it and when i express my pain through my pain it's too easily missed you know

if i get on stage and i don't have my rage people aren't going to connect to me right but my soul has rage it's not just my ego and my pain that has rage my soul does like my soul has raged for the mortality of it all for the injustice of it all you know for uh the the things that i've gone through the things that i see you know uh the things i haven't yet gone through you know maybe what's happened to me in ways that i can't even consciously understand right so when i show up with that i think people respond to it but when i show up from like a place that's like you know i'm not even talking about what i say i'm just talking about maybe how I say it and how I am when I'm saying it. When I show up from that place of wanting to get something out of the interaction rather than just being present, I always feel like I walk off stage feeling like I could have given more or I could have gone deeper.

And in that way, for me at this stage in my career, I'm very, very happy when anyone has any response to my work, whether it's a good or a bad response. it's a good or a bad response you know but it's it's more about me and whatever my journey is to get to that place where I can fully show up and fully not show up simultaneously well in many ways the definition of of an artist is somebody who's able to communicate a certain truth about something. And there's a truth that flows through your work, and there's a vulnerability, and there's an authenticity. And you never hit a false note. a false note. It's like when you're on stage and you're doing what you're doing, it's very evident and clear to anybody that the reason that the power emanates because whether somebody agrees with what you're saying or not, they know that it's your truth. And so you as an artist, when you sit down to write or channel or whatever it is, there has to be some kind of litmus test as to

whether this is resonating as an honest sentiment or sentiment isn't even the right word, but you know, an, an, an honest idea or a false note. Right. So how do you, how do you find that difference? Like, I'm sure when you're, like you just said you're on stage and you know, like, Oh, my ego got in the way or something happened and you, you get off stage and you feel like you didn't quite do it right. Like obviously you weren't fully tapped into the truth that maybe you aspired to express in that moment.

Mm-hmm. So is there, like, how do you, like, what's your process for figuring that out? For the writing aspect of it? Yeah, for the writing aspect of it. The writing aspect just always starts from, like you said, something that resonates. So, like, you know,, something that resonates. So like, you know, if,

if we spent the whole afternoon together, you know, separate from the podcast, I guarantee something that you're going to write about us. I would, I would for sure. I would be so honored for you to write about us. I would be careful. No,

I can trust him. I have full trust in this. So it's just like, I was in a conversation the other day, and I was moved by the conversation. I was moved by the energy. And so I said something that was like real in the moment. And I said, I think I said, you know, it's all about you, and it's not at all about you.

And that's life, you know it's it's all about you and it's not at all about you and that's life you know and i went oh that resonates that that feels true to me in this moment and then i write it down and then that will be kind of the start of of the next piece and then for me the train tracks in writing a poem is just about letting the poem write itself and just making sure that every line feels authentic. Sometimes I'll write some shit that's dope, but it's not right. So I'll be like, nah, dope isn't good enough. It's not about... Right, it's like the comedy writer who's writing a screenplay who gets overly attached to a joke, but it's not moving the story forward like the comedy writer who's writing a screenplay who gets overly attached to a joke but it's not moving the story forward exactly right yeah exactly um so yeah so that

that's basically you know the process of of writing the poems and then sometimes i'll get to a place where it's not my truth anymore you know but i still have to do justice to the truth that was there when I wrote it because it can connect with other people. And that I think goes back to what we were saying before. If I'm coming from my soul, then I can still tap into all of that and do it in an authentic way that, uh, can be, can be of service. So you can kind of tap into the feeling of humanity or on a larger scale instead of just what's relevant to you at that moment. Yeah.

And, you know, you talk about, you said, you know, my ego doesn't matter, but my feelings matter. My emotions matter. So, you know, you're connecting to all of this from a very feeling tone. You know, like that's really your, that's your compass. Your compass isn't your brain necessarily i think you're really with your emotions it's interesting i'm very with with both with both okay yeah my my brain is like uh i've i've had to make friends with it over over the years i'm a gemini like in in every sense of the word.

I just have a bunch of different personalities, and they're always kind of having conversations upstairs. But I would say to answer maybe your original question, which was partially about the journey, you know, I was just expressing all of it through my poetry for a long time. And I'm glad that I did. And I'm glad that I have all of that material that I can kind of mine from now. And that I was able to get it out on the page and use that as like a therapy for myself and my life.

for myself in my life but then I also got to a point where um I realized I didn't want to live in that chaotic confusion anymore and so I started to build these kind of like foundational beliefs just for my own happiness you know and that kind of helped me quiet my brain or at least uh frame the thoughts that i have in a very specific way to move me towards uh creating infinite possibility in in the future was there something was there a series of events or something that happened in your life where you realize like i can't continue being this angry guy or was it a just a slow kind of movement towards trying to find a better way to kind of cope and be happy in the world? Well, you know, I woke up at a certain age and I was broke. You know, the girl that I was with, you know, had left and it wasn't like amicable. Is that the term?

You know, so I had to kind of just look at myself in the mirror maybe and look at not who I thought I was being or who I wanted to be, but who I actually was showing up as to the people around me. wanted to be, but who I actually was showing up as to the people around me. And then I think my pendulum probably swang too far to the other side. And then I started like overextending to try to be this fucking good guy or some shit. And that didn't work either. So, you know, now I kind of just try to accept all sides of myself, know all the shadow sides the things that maybe i used to not be proud of or go to when i didn't want to deal with something you know uh now i just kind of accept them all uh or do my best to i do my best to love them and really like embrace them and know that they're a part of me but not to operate from that that place. To take the self-judgment out of it.

Yeah. Just understand that you have your, we're all imperfect beings, we're all flawed, we all make mistakes, but to be able to accept yourself and love yourself for all of the good and the bad. Yeah. And to operate from, hopefully, like a place of and and that place of that soul expression you know which like I said can still express all sorts of things that it needs to express I mean my soul is competitive you know I mean it even is you know there's a part of my soul that feels like gets that like ah there's

difference between that and being like you know I don't know if I was able to articulate what I really meant right now, but I know what I meant. Yeah, I know what you mean. No, it's it's well, I think what I think what you're getting at is, is the difference between letting that control you and and just being aware that it exists, but at least having the upper hand with it so that it's not controlling your behavior or your emotions or your decisions. So would you say that your heart is the master of your whole thing, your whole ecosystem? Is it working in conjunction with your mind, or is your mind your master? Is your heart your master or your mind your master? I think my heart and my mind are just getting to know each other okay they're just like they're they're becoming friends all right cool and uh and i feel i feel like my soul is is definitely friends and i feel like my body's still probably

catching up so i probably need to get on your guys' level for a bit and see what happens. You're going to get on the plant power program. Yeah, it's true. To bring it back to the narrative, so you have this hip-hop dream, right? And you start pursuing that. But at some point, you make a different decision about the dream that you want to pursue. So what was happening that led to that? Well, the decision kind of made me i mean i was i was trying to get signed off of that first record and it wasn't a time where you could put

anything out it wasn't you know you literally at that point needed to have uh the record company be the middle person um it's 1996 95 and which is great for kids i love that they have this creative control to have a platform to put stuff out you know that we could be in your house right now we're just creating something and people are going to get a chance to experience it in one way or another um i am just so blessed to be able to like experience that shift in popular culture you know around the world with the internet. Like I feel that way, you know, but at the time I didn't have that and didn't know anybody, didn't know how to get my stuff out there. And, uh, ultimately I was like, you know,

rapping and battle rapping and, you know, and I think I, I think I just got bored of like, uh, like trying to figure out different ways to say I was better than other people. And I couldn't quite figure... I didn't get bored with hip hop. I just got bored with the battle kind of aspect of it. And I couldn't quite figure out how to break myself the way that I wanted to. And I wound up at a place called the Poetry Lounge, which is DA. So it's DA Poetry Lounge in LA. And it turned out to be the biggest open mic in the country nationally over the past 14 or 15 years. So basically we get 350 people

every Tuesday night for that whole period of time. And it became kind of like a platform for me to express myself that I really didn't have. And I was going and doing my raps acapella and people were responding to them and I needed to get that out in a different way and um and so this kind of became my new home and it became my new community and uh over the years was unbelievably inspired by all of these different artists that came through the door so I was very lucky and how long ago was that uh so I started doing that when I was maybe two thousands um I think that's about right and uh and then i just kept going i just kept going every single week and then deaf poetry jam happened on hbo and we won the national championships for the slam stuff i think in 2004 and um i think we all i can't speak for anybody else, but I'll speak for myself. I think that everyone in that community kind of felt like someone was going to come along and blow it up the way that it deserved to be blown up.

And yet, for me, I certainly wasn't business minded at the time. I didn't even know how to network or give a shit. I was still really angry. It's funny, my deaf poetry performance is hilarious because i wrote this piece about when hip-hop was fun i still the whole entire time just wanted to be a rapper i was right you're still not fully buying into this poetry slam none of it is this just a vehicle to become a rapper totally yeah and i loved all my people there so it was like this great uh place where steel was sharpening steel but i just wanted to be an mc still and was making album after album I made like 10

albums always trying to get out you know and I had pretty much gotten farther and farther away from doing it for the sake of the love I was in a place of needing to be validated needing to be compensated, you know, and, and that came through and it, it didn't really line up with me and the products that I was making. So it wasn't about my talent at that point. It was just about how it was being expressed that really wasn't connecting. And, yeah. And, and so I think ultimately I woke up around that same time that I was telling you about earlier, you know, when I took a look at myself in the mirror and I just realized, you know, I was more of a poet than I was an emcee, at least at that point in my life. And I wasn't quite going to make it as a rapper the way that I had always imagined. And now how in the world am I gonna make any money doing poetry right yeah like were you like but were you like were you like

pissed like oh man i guess i'm a poet like uh or were you like all right man i'm gonna step into this no i was a little you're a bitch about it i was i was like you know i was like my dream like why does it have to be this right because you know that voice i don't know if you have that it's that man like that voice you know it's like and it just manifested in so many different ways but uh ultimately i'm super super grateful for where i am right now. Like, I really feel, like I can say with 100% certainty, that I am completely at peace with my past. I am very excited for my future. And I am very grateful to be sitting with you guys right here right now.

Like, I feel like this is the best moment of my life. And I don't say that as lip service. It's the only moment. Exactly. I went to a psychic one time, and she... I mean, we can get back to the narrative, but my mind starts to. And she put, speaking of tea, she put a tea thing in front of me. And this is at the very beginning. She says, do you want tea?

I say, yes. And she goes and the very beginning. She says, do you want tea? I say, yes. She goes and makes the tea. She puts it in front of me. And she says, you are a spiritual being having a human experience. And she says, this is a spiritual being having a tea experience. She said, it's a miracle. And it's here for you. And your problem is you don't look at your life like that.

Wow. That sounds like my counselor in rehab. It's pretty much exactly what he... Well, when I was in rehab, the question comes up, are you a spiritual being having a human experience or are you a human being having a spiritual experience? And I was like, I don't even understand that question, let alone know how to answer it and uh and that was that was you know i had a similar kind of

um moment where that was presented to me as kind of a new first step and looking at things differently so that's beautiful and i think it you know a big a big uh theme or maybe the central theme of this podcast is is how to live more authentically, how to find your inner voice or unlock something inside of you that is more true to who you are and to express that more deeply. And your story is one of trying to divine that in your own self and thinking it's one thing and then discovering this other thing. It's a related thing, but it's different than what you thought it was. And being attuned enough to kind of pay attention to the universe and have the faith to step into that or to follow that thread. Yeah, and also being in a place where you're taking responsibility and you're courageous enough to look at all parts of yourself and embrace and love all parts of yourself. And that's a very key, um, you know, step in the

transformation because we're all, you know, we all have light and dark experiences. We, you know, you can't get away from that and you shouldn't want to, because those dark experiences are the things that can, that catalyze the growth and make you look at yourself well and it's the challenging experiences that shape us and that really bring out me we were talking earlier about you know it's it's those moments where you're on your knees that you have an opportunity to um expand your devotion and your connection to spirit and you know we were talking with wuda yesterday and you, this is a primarily health podcast, and we're all trying to, you know, get healthier and live more authentically.

And, you know, he was talking about the spirit being an integral part of that whole life. You know, it's not one without the other. And no one's more spiritual than someone else, you know, intrinsically. I mean, we're, we all have it and we are spiritual beings having a human experience. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We just can't because it's just, there's just a wide open space. But I want to find, I want to about uh this idea of truth you know poetry as an art form um and and art being about an expression of truth in some form of universal truth

and and kind of this evolution of poetry i mean if you were to tell somebody oh i'm a poet it's sort of like well who's a poet you know like that's sort of weird you know what i mean like who does that definitely you know but like what you do is really a modern, you know, incarnation of, you know, what E.E. Cummings used to do or whatever in a way that is accessible to pop culture and a mainstream audience. And the vernacular that you use to kind of talk about universal truths but set them in the context of things that are happening now

and the things that we're talking about, gives it a point of relatability and accessibility for somebody to be able to pay attention and not dismiss it. And so I guess my question is, how has the journey been sort of identifying with yourself as a poet as opposed to an mc um well for for the last like five years or something like that when i kind of started to define myself as a poet then i was starting to figure out well how can i create a market that is still creating itself um and so i

kind of set out to do that and i I think my main goal is to try to break poetry and popular culture. And I still have that as kind of one of the branches on the trees, you know, in my forest, but. Right. I mean, you were talking about how you thought, or everybody thought in the wake of Deaf Poetry Jam, like it was going to blow up in a certain way. And I gather that the next thought was, well, it didn't exactly go in that direction, or at least the way maybe everybody thought it might at that time. Well, I mean, I think deaf poetry was a really great vehicle for us. But I think probably in retrospect, if I was going to have done the show, or if I was going

to do a different show that maybe had different intentions. I would have taken the five best poets that were around at the time and I was not one of them, trust me. But I would have allowed those poets to have half an hour specials. Because I think if you want to break a genre, you have to make a star. And I think to make a star, people have to fall in love with you. Yeah, they have to emotionally connect with who that person is and what their story is, right? Yeah. It's just as opposed to somebody walking on stage, you have no frame of reference. Maybe too many people, so it's watered down. Right.

Is that what you meant? Yeah, and it's kind of like if a comedian gets up and just tells a joke and then sits down, well, you might remember the joke because the joke was funny, but you wouldn't remember the comedian. Right. So I think a similar thing kind of happened with that poetry and by the way it was hugely successful so I'm really grateful to it and appreciative to have been a part of it um and it won a Tony on Broadway and so it it did a great job but I think as a whole for it to move forward now um you know we need to find a platform to to break a

star and to get that exposure on a larger level. And there's some people out there who are doing it. Yeah, I mean, what's going on in that world of trying to, you know, grow this movement, this culture, this scene? There's a guy named Shane Cosen who's really very amazing. I really like his work a lot. There's a guy named Lemon Anderson who's really great. I'm familiar with him. Yeah.

Lemon Anderson is really great. I'm familiar with him. Yeah. Fiveology. And Versus and Flow is something that is trying to kind of rejuvenate it for this new generation. And then online. I mean, there's a lot of people online who are like, you know, able to kind of cut out the middleman, like we were talking about before, and just of direct directly connect to the fans which is uh which is really fantastic and i've been certainly doing it in my own way i mean i haven't paid any attention to my branding visually at any point in my career ever because

that generational thing of where i came from and, and probably laziness and stubbornness to just made me want to go. If I make the right thing, they'll come calling, you know? So now is the first time that I've started to pay attention and you know, we've been doing a whole rebranding just to create the right type of conversation with, with the audience that's out there for NQ. Cause I don't really think branding is anything more than purpose. And I'm certain what my purpose is or what my chosen purpose is. I like that word better anyway. I mean, when you start talking about branding,

it starts sounding like you're trying to hoodwink somebody into paying attention to something they might ordinarily not. It sounds like it's an effort to kind of, I don't know confuse people or um you know how do we message this person so that we can get them to do x y and z and there's something inherently unauthentic about that so i think ultimately you're probably better off that you weren't worried about that and you were just focused on trying to create you know the best art that you

could yeah and i think that brings up the issue of, you know, truth and authenticity and your willingness to be vulnerable in the expression of your art. And these are all things that are why your work resonates and will make it timeless and ultimately why you're able to develop an audience and a following that's going to be loyal to you because people know, they can tell. And especially young people with the internet growing up and they have so many choices about the content that they can expose themselves to and when we're kids it's like oh you got a couple of tv stations you get what you can get right and and inauthentic authentic it doesn't matter like you're just

starved for something to watch or or to listen to and now's not that way and and i think people like i think that the point being that i think our antennae for what's lacking in in genuineness or our antennae for what's not authentic is much more finely attuned and people are in search searching for things that are that are real i totally agree yeah i think i think now, more than any other time, is the right time for poetry. Because I think people are really looking to connect. I think the wonderful thing about the internet is it has connected us on a worldwide level.

And I can take a picture with you right now and somebody can see it in Libya. I mean, it's bananas. That's amazing. But I also think it's made us feel isolated. So there is more of a return to people stepping into community more intentionally and trying to find things that connect us. And I think poetry is a really beautiful genre that allows people to share

their stories without anything else. And that's why I'm a big uh you know cheerleader for it not only in my own work but uh for other people and also for everyone to just speak their soul you know to to get their thoughts out on a page and and to kind of talk about stuff that's going on in their heart and have a different perspective on it or get the experience of sharing it with people that they love or sharing it with strangers. You know, the main thing that I think humanity needs to move forward, not that I have any right to say what my main thing is, but who doesn't have a right to say anything so I think it's empathy I think empathy is the main thing I think empathy changes

how we interact with ourselves and how we interact with the world I think it's really easy for us to pass each other on the street and not notice that there's a whole universe going on everybody has hopes and dreams and fears and all of the things that we've kind of covered earlier. And so if anything, my work attempts to do is just connect and plug people into the moment where they can kind of have a human experience and hopefully it inspires them to share their stories in ways that connect as well.

And sharing your story, I mean, for people to share their stories in ways that connect as well. And sharing your story, I mean, for people to share their stories, that's a frightening thing for probably most people because it requires a certain level of honesty, you know, and overcoming denial and the courage to express it, whether it's, you know, on a blog that two people read or, you know, a podcast that lots of people listen to or whatever the format is, it takes a certain courage and willingness to engage in self-awareness and to express that, you know, and I think that a lot of people are really scared of that. You know, I mean, would you agree? Because vulnerability, I think, culturally is culturally defined as weakness, especially with men. Yeah, I agree.

But I even think that the idea of masculine and feminine is kind of changing, and the idea of weakness should change as well. I mean, I think there's a lot of strength in being able to be vulnerable, but not be vulnerable from a weak place. I mean, if you can really stand up and say, this is what's going on with me, this is what is going on with me, this is what I want for myself in the future. And you do that from a place of strength. I think that people are drawn to that. Well, because they can see the honesty in it and and they understand and respect that it takes courage to do that yeah and maybe and maybe maybe they want to do it themselves and so that they can see an example of that and and they're attracted to it because secretly that's

really what they they want to get out of their systems so i don't know i love doing workshops and stuff because i like when people stand up you know it, it's great to do it with kids, but it's also great to do it with adults. You know, I like getting like adults together and like, it's probably easier with kids cause they don't have all the, you know, stuff that's preventing them from just expressing, you know, that, I mean like adults, I'd be terrified to do what you do. I mean, that sounds like the most frightening, like I can do certain things, but like to do what you do, that absolutely would be, that would be very hard for me

to like overcome my mask or whatever to get up and be vulnerable on stage or something like that. Then that's why we gotta do it. Yeah, I know. We gotta get you in the workshop. All right. No, but I think there's another element

that I think is very connecting and very healing for humanity and it's when someone shows their humanity in a very honest way you know and admits that you know they have faults or they're not you know they're not perfect or they have fears or you know or anger or sadness and it for me it's it's a feeling that i can feel and it's kind of a relief it feels like a relief like oh i can i can easily sit down next to this person because um they've been gracious enough to show their humanity. When you watch other people do what you do, I mean, what is your divining rod between what is great spoken word or great poetry and something that isn't?

You know, for me, I don't really pay attention to the style or the mastery. It's just about the honesty for me. And if somebody brings me into their world and allows me to connect in that way that you were just talking about, then I'm super stoked. And that's why I always negotiate my own style and just check in with myself of where i'm coming from because there's a lot of people i've seen who are great but they don't resonate like technically yeah yeah right yeah it's like basically like like hearing like a singer and you know they have the most amazing voice and you're like oh they have such an amazing voice but you don't feel

them and then hearing somebody else who doesn't have the ability you know like that but the tone that they have the soul that they sing through you know you're just totally locked in right away so that's kind of brought you back to music right like you've been co-writing with some amazing artists and having success in that in that field not necessarily as an mc but working with some pretty cool people right like yeah? Yeah. So talk us through a little bit of that. Well, I ended up getting a publishing deal with a company called Rock Mafia, who's their producers out of Los Angeles.

They're one of the top pop teams around, which is interesting because I never listened to pop music before I arrived, but I think they were looking to add a little bit of edge on the lyrical side. And I was looking to have a home to create in and have a way to make money while I was trying to figure out how to break spoken word. And it was a really good combination. And it's been a really great partnership ever since. So I was able to do co-writes on Selena Gomez and Miley Cyrus and artists like that, who I developed my own friendships with,

and then have moved on to working with Aloe Blacc, who's a great friend of mine. So we did a song for his new album and there's some other stuff that I can't quite talk about yet. Not public yet. But there's some good stuff right around the corner on that level. And yeah, I kind of have been able to set myself up in a really good way where now I can kind of like settle back and look around and decide what I want to create for myself and how I want to create and and who I want to create with I had a really you know in quotation marks big meeting last week and

I remember if I was 20 or something like that if I would have gone in on a meeting like this I would have been so uh fronting fronting and also just agenda oriented just like trying to do something and I wasn't trying to do anything you know for for me it's like I know what I want to create and I also want to make sure that anybody that I work with I respect and want to have a relationship with so it's just kind of coming in and vibing and and having that trust that if it works out it was supposed to and if it doesn't it wasn't it wasn't supposed to happen. Exactly. Exactly. And that's I mean, from all of that, I wound up, you know, from being a battle emcee at 13 years old, you know, to to a transition you know when i when i was a kid but you kind of have to let go of what do you what you want it to be to find what it is to then

figure out what it can be yeah that's in certain respects that's surrender you have to let go of the results be tuned in enough to be able to read the signs pay attention to what's going on and allow it to lead you so that your ego isn't making the wrong decision. Right. Exactly. And I just know from my own experience, I mean, I love that story about the meeting. I relate to that completely because I've been in places in my life where I was very agenda oriented or very ego fueled. And I'd go, I'd get the opportunity to have a meeting where I could get something out of it and just being holding on so tight to wanting a certain outcome and basically never getting it, you know, it was never going to work. And now to be in a place where I'm really happy doing what I'm doing, I'm very fulfilled and I have all these different

outlets. And when I go into a meeting, uh, it doesn't matter to me. I'm just going to share, this is what I'm doing. Yeah. And like, let me hear about what you're doing. We'll see if this is a fit, even if I can, you know, in my mind I can see, well, if this works out, this could lead to this and this and this, but, but really detaching from that and just, and, and understanding and actually really believing in my core, like, well, you know, the result of this is, is going to work out the way, however it's supposed to and being okay with it either way. There's a certain freedom in that. There is, it's huge. And I think when you're in

that place, you end up getting the thing that you want anyway. I mean, cause the energy is completely different. I think you end up getting more, more than you ever could dream more than you ever could imagine. Yeah. It's like going on a date, too. It's the same thing. I mean, you can attribute it to that, too. You know, you go on a date and you, like, want something.

Like, there's some sort of something rather than just showing up. Yeah, and you're projecting a certain energy on the other person, you know. Yeah, it's interesting. All right, man. So I got to hear what it was like to get up on stage at Cirque du Soleil like that was just like two weeks ago it was right yeah it was uh so how did that happen and what what what was that about well last year uh they did uh this um big show that's called one night for one drop it's a like a non-profit that brings water to people who don't have access around the world. And it's Gies who runs Cirque du Soleil.

It's his nonprofit. And it's really an amazing organization. And so in their first year that they did this big show, they did it at the O Stage at the Bellagio, and they asked me if I would write a piece for it. And so I did, and I kind of came into that situation and you know so much stimulus before so much stimulus after and then kind of bringing it in you know and having four minutes of of me kind of speaking with waves in the background and it was a very very unique situation and um and I loved it and it went so well that

they asked me to come back this year so we did it at the mandalay bay the one theater for for mj and um it was it was fantastic so they asked me to uh basically sum up the show this year so i i come up and i do the piece and uh afterwards i go down on an elevator and then the four tenors come out and sing Hallelujah. I mean, it was really, it was absolutely, it was absolutely crazy. And so they filmed it with, you know, the top quality that you could possibly do something like that. And there are rumors that I can't discuss. Right, are they doing some documentary or something like that?

Yeah, they're going to do something with it. And did you write a piece specifically for that event i did yeah yeah last year the piece i like the piece that i did last year um but it was specific to uh water you know and kind of humanity and where we are and where we're going and um and so this year I wanted to make sure that I didn't do the same piece because it wouldn't be interesting or challenging to me or the audience. And so I tried to do something that was more, I would say, not vague and ambiguous, but just a broader scale so that I wasn't doing specifics that would only let the piece live

in that environment. And then next year, if we do it again, which I imagine that we will, I'll probably go to one of the places that they're creating infrastructure. And I'd like to tell a story. Because I think if you continue to go back to the same thing in anything in life, you have to move the mirror in some form or fashion. Well, you have to have new experiences that inform the art, the message that you're trying to convey, right?

Exactly, yeah. But it was exciting, man, and it's exciting to work with athletes that do death-defying things on a moment-to-moment basis. It's extraordinary what those guys do. Did you share a stage with Barack Obama, too? death defying things on a moment to moment basis. It's extraordinary what those guys do. And I mean, did I read, did you like share a stage with Barack Obama too? I mean, you've been on stage with pretty cool people like Chili Peppers and like, so I mean, how, how did these things come about? I mean, what happened? When were you with the president? Well, it was before he was the president. So it was when Howard Dean was running. And he was speaking, Hillary Clinton was speaking, Howard Dean was there.

And I went up and did a political poem. There was maybe 4,000 people there. Wow. But I'm making that up, so I really don't know how many people were there. I'm like, there's 5 million people. We won't hold you to it. Yeah. What's funny is... A lot of people yeah we won't hold you to it yeah um what's funny is a lot of people there are a lot of people there there was a lot of people there and i'll tell you

what if if camera phones were uh like available back then it would have blown up on the internet it was a very it was a very special special moment so i went up on stage and i did this this piece and i finished and i got off stage and Howard Dean grabs my hand and he comes back out he puts my hand up and he says what about NQ for president and the whole place just goes crazy you know that would have been like your gif on the internet forever I mean crazy right So I walk off stage. Hillary is there. She says, I liked your work.

I said, thank you. I shake her hand. I walk over. Barack Obama is there. And he says, I was very moved by your piece. We shake hands. And I knew of him, but I didn't really know of him yet. And the only thing that I can say is is and i remember actually having this thought without any real context to the thought is i remember thinking that he was one of the most powerful

people i had been around that his energy was so connected that i felt like I was the only person in the universe. And I really did not have any context to feeling that way. And yet I was not in the place, you know, where I would have anything other than just that thought and then let that thought go. So then he says, we should stay in contact. Oh, he says that to you? He gives me his card and Ihuh and i lost his car oh no i swear to god i didn't even i was like oh cool like a car i'll see you around yeah so this is

the like the election cycle before he ran for that's right the first time right so yeah that's unbelievable but there is something very unique about certain individuals i mean you hear growing up in dc and being around politicians i I mean, you hear that about Bill Clinton, that he has this facility, this talent for when he's in a conversation with somebody, everything else goes away, and he's so focused, and he has such a facility for making the other person feel like

they're the only person that counts in the world, and that's a certain gift or a talent. And, you know, certain people put out certain energies you know and it's it's interesting that you were able to pick up on that like years before you know what happened happened yeah i had heard that too and i don't know if i had heard that beforehand or or since but it was very apparent to me it was i've really never in fact if i if i really think about it you know but i didn't yes but i didn't even think that specifically i just remember having that read that download of like wow like this guy's really like something about this person and i think if i

if i'm being honest with myself i don't know that i ever met anyone else that had such a powerful energy i think it's maybe easy for me to say that in retrospect based on circumstances but um that was that was my experience and yet i still lost this card you did yeah i know yeah having that knowing like i just met this guy who's so powerful and then not having the wherewithal yeah well that that tells you where my mind was at together yeah i was just your shit together. Yeah, I was just like, whatever, I'm fucking moving, and whatever I was thinking. That's funny. We're running out of time,

because I know you've got to get back to the studio, but there's a couple things I want to do before I let you go. Sure. The first thing is, kind of going back to a theme of this podcast, is trying to convey some tools or some inspiration for people that feel stuck in their life. Like you're somebody who's been able to access a certain truth about yourself to embrace a passion and develop a life around your passion. And that's something that I think is elusive for a lot of people. They feel stuck in their lives or they just can't,

maybe they don't know themselves well enough to even know what that thing is. So how do you begin to, you know, what is, what is something you could say that, that would be helpful to somebody who's struggling with these ideas? Um, I would say you're not alone, you know, that everyone has been there. And personally, I've certainly been there. And I would say that if you want to change something in your life, you have to change something in your life. And you have to find a way to move the mirror. to move the mirror so you know even if you don't know how to change the specific thing that you want to change you have to change something else that's impactful enough to where your perspective

shifts and if your perspective shifts in any way then it shifts in every way and then maybe you'll start to see some things differently i would say that's one the other thing is doing things that scare you creating things that scare you um as experiences because like personally for a very long time uh i only really stayed doing the shit i was good at because i didn't like the feeling of not being good at other things and so I wouldn't put myself in fearful or challenging situations and I would think that because I got on stage and performed in front of all these people and said all of these things that I was actually being courageous when in reality that had become second nature for me in the way that I was doing it and if I wanted to progress in that department of my life, I needed to do other things that

scared me, you know, and, and, um, be in those situations where that fear or the fear of failure or the feel of fear of doing something awkward or something like that becomes fun and um so that's another thing i think embracing things that right scare you i mean in terms of making it fun that that requires taking the self-judgment out of it like if you fail like who cares let's just let's make it fun take that take Take that aspect of the equation out of the equation and then allow yourself to fail. Give yourself that permission. Exactly.

And it makes it easier to walk through that fear, I think. Exactly. And if you wanted specifics, I mean, I don't know, take a hula hoop class. I mean, just something stupid. Not that hula hooping is stupid. To start creating a habit around doing these things start with something small yeah yeah for sure and and putting yourself out there in that

way um and then just seeing how it feels you know or or write a poem write a poem become a poet yeah i come up with everybody's a poet everybody a poet. What is it like when you go to prisons and you try to teach there? You know, I only went twice. And I forget the place that I went to actually now, but I went twice. And it was actually two of the best experiences that I've had. two of the best experiences that I've had just because the gratitude of the guys that I was able to be with during those shows was really apparent and they were very connected and you know I got up and I did a piece called God Doesn't Make Mistakes you know to a guy guys who were sitting in prison you know and and uh what that moment was you know you could you could feel it in the room you know um and and that's the whole thing is even

the thing that you're talking about earlier of how do people find something for themselves i think it really does start with taking responsibility for everything that you have ever experienced in your life, which is a very difficult thing to do. It was very difficult for me and it continues to be a choice that I make on a moment to moment basis. co-created every single thing that I'm experiencing. And I believe that I'm doing it to evolve and to raise my vibrational level and to share my story and to connect with people and to have that soul interaction. And so all of the things that I look at in my life is the tragedies or the pain, all those things are really the things that we talked about before that I can use to move forward. But I have to take responsibility for them first in order for me to own them. Otherwise, they have power over me in a way that continues to show up in my day-to-day interactions as a man and ultimately as an artist.

That's true. And by taking responsibility, then you are no longer a victim. Yeah. then you are no longer a victim. Yeah. And you can rise out of that. And I completely share that same experience. Definitely. Yeah.

So whatever it is you're going through, you know, what do you want to do now? That's good. That's a good, that's a beautiful place to end it, I think. But I'm hoping that you'll take us out with another poem and i really loved you don't have to do this one if you don't want to but the the poem that you delivered when we were up at summit um before that the final dinner in the big house do you remember that one you remember which one you did i think it was a

world peace yes yeah yeah yeah i think i'm gonna hold that one okay because no problem i don't know it yet well enough all right to share it the way that i want it's a pretty that was it's a pretty new one right i think that was the first time that you had done it or one of the earlier it was the first time i had done it in a live setting, and I haven't done it since then. Okay. And since I was doing the Cirque thing, I haven't spent any time focusing on it.

It's a five-and-a-half-minute piece. Yeah, it's long. The other thing about the piece is it's interesting. Like, I was where I needed to be to write it, but I'm still stepping into who I need to be to say it because it's a very deep piece. Very deep, yeah. And so I'm kind of still working on myself

to be able to deliver it in the way that I need to. Deliver the one you want to deliver. Okay. Okay. Is it a true story. This one time I saw a dude who worked for Vons collecting stacks of shopping carts in the parking lot with only one arm. Now I should say that on this particular day,

I'd been feeling down about myself. Depressed about some stupid shit. Complaining in my head that I'm not as far along as I would like to be. That life is victimizing me. And mind you, I was buying food at the time. To put into my car, to put into my house, to put into my fridge, to put into my mouth. And that's when I saw him. Ten carts deep.

Pushing them with one arm down the street whistling. I swear he was whistling. Do you know how happy I would have to be to spontaneously pucker up my lips like I was about to blow a kiss, then open up a bit and push some air from my esophagus into a higher pitch shit really fucking happy I mean totally ecstatic I would have had to have just had a three-way with Scarlett Johansson and Rachel McAdams where both of them had orgasms as they screamed out in queue is the best we've ever had then at that point I would whistle I mean at that point, I would whistle. I mean, at that point, I'd probably dance around a little. Anyway, back to this dude. First thought I had, I'll admit,

was a bit rude, but hear me out before you boo. See, I was confused because if I was in his shoes and I had to choose a job, this would not be the job I'd choose. And I know that sounds hardcore, but honestly, this is the one job that I would want two arms for. Now, that being said, this dude was a motherfucking gangster. The army had looked like it was strong enough to be the anchor on an oil tanker, like he could have been Arnold Schwarzenegger's trainer back when he was starring in The Terminators and it woke me up like the scent from a cup of Sanka. So I went home and wrote this poem as an ode to thank him.

See, it really got me thinking about my situation. Why the fuck am I complaining? This world is full of people maintaining. No matter who you are or where you're from, we all have to wake up every day and accept the fact that we don't know where we'll go or why we've come. And that can cause confusion. So we distract ourselves with movies and with music and focus on amusement instead of self-improvement, a mutually agreed upon collective delusion. With this much stimulus and this little understanding, it's no wonder we don't all just completely fucking lose it. Genius and insanity are closer than they seem.

Your perspective is the difference between your nightmares and your dreams. Your perspective is the difference between your nightmares and your dreams. Because if everything is energy and my body is a vessel, then my struggle is unique and beautiful. But that doesn't make it special. And this motherfucker had the balls to up and whistle with a fistful of shopping carts that he guided like a missile. And it blew me away like a sneeze into a tissue that someone who was seemingly so many issues could be unequivocally so blissful while someone who's as lucky as I am

could be self-creating problems by the listful. Well, I guess that's my process but when it gets indulgent it can border on obnoxious insulting and even repulsive so from this point on right now

if my thoughts start thinking that they're important or my feelings start feeling too distorted I'm going to sort them into categories to see if I can change them If I can, I'll simply make the moves to rearrange them If I can't, I'll acknowledge them But won't engage them Look them square into their eyes Smile while I face them.

In cue. Thanks man. That was awesome beautiful thanks for coming by man of course man thank you for having me inspiring absolutely the world is a much better place for having you in it thanks yeah thanks all right so if uh people want to connect with you, it's in-q.com. Yeah, it's in question. That's what it stands for? I was going to ask you that, and I just got caught up in the conversation. That's it. In-q, in question. That's what it stands for.

That's cool. So in-q.com and then. At in-q life on Twitter. That's it. And Instagram, right? Perfect. Those are the places. That's it.

What's coming up, man? Oh, you're going to Israel. Going to Israel. What are you doing? What's going on there? Uh, there's an amazing trip that's, uh, that's being organized by a friend of ours and some of the summit community. And so, uh, we're just, we're going, it's a bunch of artists, a bunch of tech people. And, uh, we have this kind of extensive tour and I've never been before and I'm very, very excited to, to experience it. Um, you know, traveling always, always lifts the veil, you know? So, uh, that's, that's, that's where I'm at. There's a lot of stuff coming up, but I'm, I'm happy, happy in this moment and happy to be going there tomorrow but if people want to find out where you're

performing next it's on your website yeah I'm going to do something at 41 Ocean when I get back I think sometime in April or something like that I think it's April 26th so you know but they can go and get all the information on the website for sure alright man thanks brother much love

peace plants namaste and get all the information on the website for sure. Right. All right, man. Thanks, brother. Much love. All right, peace. Plants. Namaste. All right, everybody. That's our show. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope that helped expand your horizons a little bit. I hope that helped you reimagine your truth. I dig that guy, man.

I think I'm going to have him back on. He's awesome. And I'm a better person for having him in my life. I hope you feel the same. So before we close it out, a couple quick announcements. I wanted to bring you up to speed on a couple exciting things. The first thing is I've got an app coming soon, an iOS mobile app for the podcast. And we've been testing it out. We've been developing it for a while. And it's pretty close to launch. And I'm really excited about it.

It'll be the kind of thing you can put on your iPad or your iPhone. It's not Android compatible. We're just doing iOS right now. So for those of you with an Android phone, we'll look into developing something like that for later. But for now, just version one, we're launching iOS. And it's going to be the easiest way for you to get all the podcasts on your iOS device. It's great for, you know, a lot of people all the time, they're like, I'd listen to your podcast, but you know, how do I find it? Or how do I get it, which is, you know, kind of remarkable and amazing to me. It's so simple, but yet, it seems to elude a lot of people. And this is going to be an easy way for those people,

they can just get, you know, download the app off the App Store, and they don't have to worry about iTunes or, you know, how to find it or whatever, it'll just be at their fingertips. So a great way to share the show with friends who maybe are unfamiliar with the world of podcasting. And the other great thing is it's going to help us build this community. It's going to help us grow the Plant Power Revolution. And it is going to have the entire catalog of podcasts on it all the way back to episode one.

If you get the show off iTunes, you know that you can only get the most recent 50, and now we're up to 81. So that's 30-odd episodes that are inaccessible unless you delve deep down into the bowels of my website to find it. And this is going to be a way for you to easily access all the episodes all the way back to our rough and tumble beginnings. That's something we're going to offer to the early adopters of the app. Of course, it's going to be free. The app will be totally free. Eventually, we'll do later iterations and

versions. We're going to build out a premium functionality to it where you can upgrade the app to access certain things that are premium content. And eventually, we're not going to have the entire catalog available for free. But for early adopters, that's what you're going to be able to get, which is pretty cool. What else about it can I say? It's the bomb. It's really cool. And we'll have it ready soon. We've got to get it through the whole app store approval process and all of that. And I don't know how long that takes. It might take a little while, but I just want to let you guys know, make you aware that this is in the works and coming soon. And of course, I'll make an announcement when it is completely available,

but we are close. The second thing is we have a new nutritional supplement product that's going to be launching very soon. It's called Ion. It is an electrolyte capsule supplement for the athletes out there. It's a lot like Salt Stick, if you're familiar with that. You've heard me talk about that product on the show before. It has a lot of similarities with that, but we've made a couple tweaks to that formula. And in our opinion, it is improved on that product. I'll fill you in more on the details of that on the eve of launching it. But we've got it all in stock. We've just got to build out the functionality on the website so that we can make it available and offer it to you guys.

But really excited about that. I've been testing it out on my rides and my runs, and it really works well. And as you know, as an athlete, particularly an endurance athlete, you got to keep your electrolytes in check. And the way that most athletes do that is they suck on the Gatorade

or they get these sugary drinks, and we're taking the electrolyte aspect out of, away from that. So it's just getting you what you need, the electrolytes without all the additives, without all the sugar, without all the artificial coloring and sweeteners and all that kind of stuff. I'm really proud of it. It's been a long time in the works and we're getting ready to launch that. So stay tuned for more information about that as we get close. That's it. I want to support the show.

Best way to do that, just tell a friend. Once we get the app going, you can share the app too. We love it. This is a word of mouth thing. It's a grassroots thing. It's grown very organically over time. We're really proud of that. So yeah, that's the best way to do it, just to share.

And you know what's really great and what I love is when people share the podcast on Instagram. I absolutely love it when I get tagged on a photo of somebody out on a run with some kind of screen grab of the podcast or a picture of them out exercising saying that they're listening to the podcast. So I totally dig that. Keep it up, you guys. And, yeah, that's a great way to share it too, visually with your friends. Amazon banner ad, of course. We have an affiliate relationship with Amazon. If you're gonna buy something on Amazon,

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We're in the modern era with that. All right. That's it, you guys. I want to learn more about getting plant-based, the ultimate guide to plant-based nutrition, our course at mindbodygreen.com. Julie and I take you through three and a half hours of streaming online video content, everything you need to get more plants into your life. We're really proud of that. So you can check that out.

And of course, for all your plant power provisions, go to richroll.com. We got t-shirts. We got beanies. We got trucker hats. We have new stuff coming up. We've got a cycling kit that we're working on that we're pretty excited about and all kinds of new designs and apparel. And of course, our nutritional supplement product line, our Jycee e-cookbook, our downloadable meditation program, our B12, blah, blah, blah, all that good stuff. You guys know that. So go there

for all of that. And that's it. You guys follow me on Twitter at Rich Roll on Instagram at Rich Roll, Facebook, all that good stuff. And I will catch you guys next week. Thank you so much. I know there are so many demands on your eyeballs and your ears for all of the content that is available to you. So it means so much that you would spend a couple hours with me each week listening to this podcast, and I greatly appreciate it. It motivates me to keep the quality high and to continue on this mission. It's been incredibly rewarding for me, and I hope for you as well.

So have a great week, everybody. Reimagine yourself. Take things to the new level and blow the glass ceiling on your possibilities. And in the words of Summit, make no small plans. We'll catch you next week. Peace. Plants. Thank you.