The Rich Roll Podcast - Introducing Ask Lisa: The Psychology of Parenting: "Should I Talk with My Teens About My Own Mental Health Challenges?"

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Today I’m sharing an episode of Ask Lisa: The Psychology of Parenting hosted by Dr. Lisa Damour and Reena. In this episode, Dr. Lisa Damour and Reena explore the topic of "Should I Talk with My Teens About My Own Mental Health Challenges?" Subscribe to Ask Lisa: The Psychology of Parenting on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Find out more about Voicing Change Media at voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange

Hey everybody, I am very excited to welcome or re-welcome, I should say my very favorite expert on all things parenting, the teen whisperer herself, the great Lisa DeMore. Lisa is a graduate of Yale University. She received her PhD in clinical psychology from the University of Michigan. And she is a three time New York Times bestselling author.

Her books include Untangled, Under Pressure, and The Emotional Lives of Teenagers. And this is basically the tripartite of parenting must reads, I gotta say. Lisa is also the host of Ask Lisa, which is the essential podcast for parents seeking guidance on raising kids, particularly tweens and teens,

which I'm very proud to announce also happens to be the newest addition to our new, but quickly growing repertoire of best in class podcasts here at Voicing Change Media. And the purpose of today's show is to reacquaint you with Lisa or introduce her to you. If you're new to the show, we're gonna share an episode of Ask Lisa.

We're gonna append it after our brief conversation here. And that's it. I mean, personally, I guess what I wanna say is I can't overestimate how helpful Lisa has been in my own parenting journey. You're sort of my decoder ring, this beacon of light that has helped counsel me through the roller coaster ride of raising our children into young adults. And it's delightful to have you here today.

Thank you, Lisa. How are you doing? I am great. And I'm really happy to be with you. And Rena, my co-host and I are so, so happy to be joining you. Well, we're really proudhost and I are so, so happy to be joining you. Well, we're really proud to have you. Yeah, this is very exciting.

And you do such a great job and we're here to amplify your important voice. Well, thank you. So thanks for coming out today. I can't remember how long it's been since the last time we got together, a couple of years at least. It's like right around two years.

Two years, yeah. Right around two years, yeah. A lot has happened since then. One very interesting particular event has transpired since we last sat down. Can you share a little bit about that? I think you're talking about my involvement with Inside Out 2.

I am indeed talking about that. Yeah, so in May of 2020, I got a call from Pixar saying that Kelsey Mann, the director, and Meg LeFauve, one of the writers, wanted to meet with me. So it was early pandemic, we hopped on a Zoom, and they were holding Untangled and Under Pressure, the two books of mine that had come out at that point. And they talked about what they were up to with this film they were thinking about.

And those books are about adolescent girls and about stress and anxiety. And so if you've seen the film, right down the middle of what they were working on. And that launched us into a four year conversation that was as much fun as anything I have done professionally. So I went back and forth to Pixar. I edited or looked at drafts of the film and gave feedback. I worked with an extraordinary colleague, Dacher Keltner,

who's at Berkeley, who was on the first film and somebody I've long respected. So it was really fun to be alongside him as another consultant on this film. And what they generated in the end, I think is an incredible contribution. What is it that's so special about Pixar? Not that you've been working

with all kinds of other movie studios, but we did have the opportunity to have Ed Catmull join the podcast, who was a co-founder of Pixar and wrote this wonderful book about team building and creativity and management. He's no longer there, but obviously the DNA of, you know, his kind of leadership style, I'm sure still persists. In terms of my contact with them,

I was blown away by their devotion to the precision of the science. They really wanted to get it right. And, you know, made changes on really what are very minor points. But when I said, you know, ah, this is not quite exactly it, they fixed it up. They had me meet with the entire crew working on the film

to do a presentation around adolescent mental health and how we think about development. And so from soup to nuts in the work on that film, they had me and Dachar thinking with them about getting the science and the kind of, you know, academic underpinnings of that, correct? And given the reach they have, I mean, this is the highest grossing animated film

of all time. It's the eighth highest grossing film of all time. I didn't know that. I knew it was popular and successful. I didn't realize at that magnitude. It's done incredibly well. And so- You have backend, of course. Oh yeah.

Let's, we'll return to that in another day. Boy, I wish I did. But what is important is that it will reach families who no one can reach in that kind of way. And that they got it right and that they made it entertaining and engaging, and yet told a true story about teenagers and the ways in which they become very intense

with their emotions and told a true story about emotions and the ways in which they become very intense with their emotions and told a true story about emotions and that uncomfortable and unwanted emotions are actually really important and valuable. Those are the messages that a lot of my work is trying to get across. And so to get to partner with such a huge megaphone on those messages was a huge, huge benefit. There's also a personal parallel here as well, correct?

Because the protagonist in the movie happens to be the same age as your daughter. Well, it is kind of amazing. So when the first film came out in 2015, my older daughter was 12 or 11, turning 12 that year. And now my younger daughter is 13. Oh, I see, I got it. And now my younger daughter is 13.

So, or was 13 when the film came out and has turned 14. So it was the exact same age as the protagonist. And so, very fun. I actually got to take her to Pixar with me for some of it and get to tour around in the back. So we had a great time. Did you get the good job, you're a cool mom, like certification badge,

or is it the age where nothing you can do is cool? I don't think they think anything I do is cool, right? I mean, I think that they're sort of like, that's great, mom, but like what's for dinner? And that's their job to be focused on what's for dinner. Yeah, that's an amazing experience. I didn't realize the movie was that big, but I, and I haven't seen the second one,

but I did see the first one. And I just remember being very impacted by how, what an incredibly creative way into kind of the mind and the inner experience of what it's like to have complicated emotions. It's so smart and they did such a good job. And there's things in the film that are so quick that I was so glad to see included.

So if you remember in the first film, you know, there are all these mental islands that are important to Riley's life. And so in the intro to the second film, early in the second film, they're surveying the islands and somebody says, well, where's Family Island? And Family Island has receded way to the back and it's like gray and sort of sad and it's like the parents And then Riley standing apart for them and it's totally crowded out by friendship island Which looks like this giant amusement park and it's this quick little joke and I was like, holy moly when I saw that I thought For them to put up on the screen

That this is exactly what happens in adolescence, that it's not your kid dumping you, you haven't done anything wrong, this is the natural course of events. I thought it was so amazing, you know, to watch them do that. So just as healing for the parents as for the children, like everybody can kind of identify. Absolutely. And, you know, it's very clever and very funny and the kind of thing a lot of adults are going to want to see as well. And it's interesting, we actually have a long research science on programming for kids and what makes it effective. And what makes it effective is if adults want to watch it too,

because, you know, we did all this research on Sesame Street a million years ago. And what makes it effective is if after the show, the parent is then later talking about, so what would the count say, right? And so same with this film, the fact that it's done in a way that adults are gonna enjoy watching it, also means that the adults get the benefit

and the kids get the benefit of the adults getting the benefit. The kids get the benefit of the adults not taking it so personally that their kid wants to hang out with their friends all the time. Or there's even a very funny place where, suddenly Riley's emotions become very, very powerful as a function of puberty setting in.

And to have that normalized and put on the big screen is a huge gift to families. Are the Hollywood studios now calling you all the time? If they wanna talk to me, I'm happy to help. And it really is because that's a lot of where the messaging comes across about teenagers, family life, what to expect. You know, I love getting to do my work in the public space,

but I'm aware that there are much, much bigger voices out there. And so if I can help shape how they talk and think about young people, you know, I'm ready to do that. All right, Hollywood, give her a call. I've been in the parenting game for quite a while at this point.

Our youngest is 17, our oldest is 29, two boys, two girls. I've seen kind of every permutation, you know, of this, the peaks, the valleys, how to handle the challenges that come your way with some level of grace and equanimity. And it's still confusing. What's the right thing to say or do?

Like, should I not say that? Should I say this? When to be supportive? When to put up the boundaries? As soon as you think you've kind of developed some level of mastery, you get a curve ball and you're like, how about this? How are you gonna handle this one?

And when I think about 2025, being here in Los Angeles, I think about uncertainty and impermanence. Obviously a very turbulent political time that is driving a lot of anxiety and uncertainty and layering on top of that here, like the devastating fires, we were evacuated and like, you know, it's a lot for young kids. I found myself the other day thinking about,

you know, a young person who's maybe 14 or 15, who weathered the pandemic, you know, had to endure puberty at home, you know, in their room, got through that, things start to normalize, but all kinds of like craziness with social media kind of enters the picture and that gets heightened. And once you feel like, okay, well, I'm developing adaptive strategies for this,

you have the fire and there's people's homes burning down. And like, it's just like, what is going on in the mind of that child? I can't help but think they're developing this sense of A, like the world is a very unsafe place. And B, like maybe the adults don't know anything. You know what I mean? And like, what is that doing to, you know,

hundreds of thousands, if not millions of young developing minds at this point? Well, we don't really know, but in some ways we've been here before, right? I mean, I wasn't alive when World War II was happening, but like you think about other times in history where things were completely upside down and felt like they were coming apart and the world that you knew it didn't feel familiar at all. And it felt really scary where everything could head.

So I think every generation has its own version of this and we're in this. We don't know where this will go. We don't know what it means down the line. My world, my training is about the power of the relationship between adult and child, between parent, caregiver and the child. And what I know is that the best thing we can do under these conditions is to try to be a steady presence for our kid.

We have been around longer. We have seen things be very bad and correct. We can offer some perspective that kids cannot have. I think what is hard is that the adults feel pretty undone right now too. And so being a steady presence isn't so easy. We can feel pretty overwrought ourselves. And I think then if you can't be a steady presence,

then the next step is to remember that being emotional is not necessarily the same thing as being fragile. As- Tell me more. Yeah, as a culture, we've become very, very uneasy about any emotional discomfort. We have come to equate being mentally healthy with feeling good. And we've talked about this before, right?

You know that's not how we think about this as psychologists. And so one thing that we can give our kids is the understanding that you're supposed to be upset and upsetting conditions. It's actually strange. I mean, if you went through everything that you just described and you were like, yeah, no, we're great. It's cool, right?

That's actually pretty weird. And so allowing for sadness, allowing for worry, allowing for some anxiety without quickly slipping into the idea that that means that everything's awful or that we have mental health concerns or that we're never gonna be okay again. I think that's actually where the adults can be most useful to kids, which is to allow for distress, but to not equate it with a mental health crisis.

Well, that kind of perfectly sets up the episode that we're gonna share, which is all about answering this question, like how much of my mental health challenges should I actually share with my children? And I'm of two minds on this. And it kind of fits into exactly what you just said. Like I'm of the generation that has learned over time

that transparency is better. You don't wanna just put on the strong face and pretend like everything's fine when it isn't because then you're breeding distrust and it's better to like let the kids in and like, this is what we're going through. But at the same time, you don't wanna kind of overshare to the point where the child feels unsafe

or like that you don't got this. Like they need to feel like even, yeah, okay, I recognize you're having a hard time, but I'm gonna go to sleep tonight, you know, confident that you have a handle on whatever it is that's going on. Is that like kind of fairly accurate description of- No, I think you described the tension really well, right?

We wanna be honest with our kids but we also don't want them to feel like there's not a grownup in the room, right? That's, they want both. You know, and in this episode, what we think through is, you know, when does it make sense to talk with kids about what you yourself have been through? How do you do it in a way that is gonna work?

What is it, you know, what should drive it? What should it be about, you know? And when should you do it if you're gonna do it? We talk about some mental health concerns that can have a biological underpinning that at some point kids may want to know about just by way of being aware of some genetic vulnerability that may be at play.

But we really, I love talking and thinking with Rena because she does such a good job of really sitting in the role of the parent who's is like but what about this and what about that and and through that process? I think we Tease apart really really complex questions and get to big principles That's actually my favorite thing about our conversations is that we are always asking a question from a listener But in at answering or we're always answering a question from a listener, but in answering, or we're always answering a question from a listener, but in answering that question, we always try to like pull back the lens a little bit

and think like, what's the big parenting principle at play here? And she sort of inhabits the perspective of the parent who's gonna be asking the typical questions to make sure that the audience is getting the takeaways that they need. Yeah, yeah, she's,, she's a journalist by training and just does an incredible job of,

but what about this and what about that? And pushes my thinking. And hopefully above all, just puts it all on, into practical everyday in your kitchen terms, as opposed to, here's theoretically how we think about these things. That's not really what people need. People need like, what do I say to my kid?

And we work really hard to get to that. Where do our parenting intuitions lead us astray? Like what are common examples of situations you've seen where we feel like the right thing to do is X when actually it's Y. And I guess I'm just imagining, in the context of sharing your mental health stuff, it's like, oh, we should be transparent

and like not knowing where the boundary of that is, or what are some kind of principles that you could, kind of quickly share before we turn to the episode itself? Well, so one thing that I think is, Jermaine did this topic, but stretches across others is, you know, there's so many important conversations we want to have with our kids before they leave home, you know, and we, they weigh on us and they feel big and important. And sometimes they're about our own mental health concerns, but sometimes they're just

about other things in the world that we want to talk about. And there are moments in parenting where we're like, okay, I'm ready to have the conversation and we find our teenager and we're like, we need to talk about, you know, and then fill in the blank. And what we forget is that kid did not see it coming, has 400 other things going on, doesn't know why you are bringing this up now,

almost always assumes like, what did I do that you have, you know, felt compelled to have this conversation? And so what I would say just on a very easy X to Y for all parents everywhere is if you have something big and heavy, the time has come that you feel you need to talk about it, give your kids some warning and see if they're open to it at that time or make a plan to talk about it. But I think the not very sophisticated, but I think kind of direct way I would say this

is like no sneak attacks on teenagers. Like it never goes well. If you have something big and heavy, say to them, you know, you're headed off to college and we've never really talked about, you know, ex sex, drugs, drinking, whatever. There's some things I want you to know. When's a good time for us to have this conversation?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll get much further that way. I find that even when I do that, it's still challenging. And like what I'm actually trying to communicate by dint of that type of conversation is kind of more effectively transmitted when I'm in a casual environment and I'm like we're in a car and a long drive

or we're on a trip and I'm like we're in a car and a long drive or we're on a trip and we're on a plane or like, hey, tell me, when I'm curious about them and then it moves into a place where it feels natural to kind of share, well, this thing happened. And then just, it kind of percolates up out of something organic as opposed to like,

you come in with an agenda and here's what's gonna happen and here's how we're gonna, here's how you're gonna come out on the other side of that. I agree with everything you said. I think it's true. I think rolling up on a teenager with an agenda pre-planned rarely has the outcome we're hoping for. The other thing I will say,

and I've seen this consistently, kids open the door to these conversations. Kids will say, you know, there's ninth graders using weed gummies at school, right? Or they will say, oh, you know, so and so, they're like having sex with a lot of different partners, right? They will throw the door wide open to conversations

that we mean to be having. And in my experience, that's actually when you're most likely to get some ground in that conversation, to say like, well, what do you know? And what do you think? And what are you hearing? And what do you make of that, right? Asking them their thoughts.

And then you'll learn a lot based on their response when you ask questions about what do you think about that? And then you may be able to get your two cents in. But I will say in all of parenting, I don't ever think you have very long to say very much. I think these are conversations that we dip in and out of. I think kids can only tolerate so much at a given time. I think car rides, plane rides, walks,

when they don't have to look at us are invaluable. But there's no such thing in my world as the talk. It's an ongoing conversation because kids change and actually how you think about it yourself as a parent changes. The slow dread as opposed to the fire hose, the monumental talk where we're gonna solve all of these problems.

I think that's really good advice. And when the child kind of lobs, it's sort of like lobbing a grenade and it's a litmus test. Like, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna shame me and say, well, you better not do that, you know, like a more kind of like lobbing a grenade and it's a litmus test. Like, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna shame me and say, well, you better not do that, like a more kind of like typical response.

Can you resist that and instead like approach it with curiosity? It's really hard sometimes, right? I mean, if kids are like, yeah, there's weed and gummies going around school. I mean, a lot of adults would be like, whoa, don't let me catch you. But even with that, you can come back and say,

you know, I had a really strong reaction. Tell me more about why that came up. I think it's okay for us to apologize and return to it. Because I think sometimes when kids are putting those things on the table, they are seeing like, if I had an issue, how would you react? So let me start by testing the waters with, that kid over there.

You get a crazy reaction. Okay, it's not safe for me to share that thing. Never bringing this up again. The door is shut and like, I'll go to somebody else. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the last thing you want. It is. I will tell you in those clutch moments,

there is a phrase that parents can use while they're getting their heart rate down, which is just to say to the kid, what do you think about that? Like you can't go wrong with that phrase and it will help you collect yourself and help you know where the conversation needs to go. Yeah, neutrality becomes like a superpower, right?

I'm thinking of a scenario in which, you know, there's a conflict between kind of what you say and what you do. Because if you're kind of saying like, well, you better not, and this is that, and this is bad, and like, you know, no daughter of mine, you know, whatever. But then later you come and say, you know, you can talk to me about anything.

Like I'm available to you. Like, you know, you can talk to me about anything. Like I'm available to you. Like, you know, you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth at that point, right? It's true. And, you know, one of my favorite things in the whole world is to get with a bunch of teenagers and ask them questions about things that I've been wondering about.

And so one time I got with them, a bunch of teenagers, and I was like, you know that thing where you're clearly upset and your was like, you know that thing where you're clearly upset and your folks can tell you're upset and they're asking what's wrong and you won't tell them. And they're all like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, what's the deal? And they were like, well, there's one of four reasons.

I mean, they have so much knowledge of us. And they said, first of all, we know what you're gonna say. And they do know us, they know us inside and out. So they were like, maybe it's that I messed up a test that you asked if I'd studied enough for and I reassured you I hadn't, and apparently I hadn't because I got my test back. And so if I tell you that's what I'm upset about,

I know what you're gonna say and I don't wanna hear it. So we think we're so context free, they have us dead to rights. Another kid said, you're gonna blab, you're gonna blab. I'm gonna tell you, and it doesn't feel like a big deal to you, so know. Another kid said, you're gonna blab, you're gonna blab. I'm gonna tell you and it doesn't feel like a big deal to you, so you'll tell the neighbor, but it feels like a state secret to me, so I don't wanna do it.

Another kid said, this was so funny. They're like, well, it's complicated, it's complicated. This girl said, you know, maybe it's like this. Maybe the thing I'm having a problem with is that I got into a fight with Susie today. Susie and I had been going hot and cold for 10 years and I know my family can't stand Susie. Susie's having a party in two weeks and I really want to go. So if I tell them today what the issue is in two weeks, we're going to have a problem. So again, they know us so well. And then the

last one, and I think this is what parents and caregivers should always assume if they can't get their kid to tell them what the story is. This kid said to me, you know, by the time I get home, I'm like 90% of the way past it and rehashing the whole thing for my folks is not gonna help me feel better. So, I mean, there's always a reason for their behavior. What they do make sense, and I think what I love so much about teenagers

is that if you ask them a straight question, if you're asking, asking, they will tell you exactly what is behind behavior that seems confusing on the surface. The other thing that I found very helpful is always asking myself the question, like, am I trying to help them feel better or solve their problem?

Or am I trying to resolve my own uncomfortable emotions about what's happening? Like I think there's a lot of transference in there. And so much of where parents' instincts drive them in the wrong direction is when they're really trying to solve their own internal emotional like turmoil over something rather than the child's. Absolutely, right.

And luckily kids are pretty durable. We can get it wrong. And it doesn't mean that they're gonna come to harm. But that is something Rina and I think through in this episode, right? If you feel compelled to talk with your kid about your sufferings in the past, like why? You know, what's behind it?

Who's it serving? What's it for? And you wanna be really clear in your mind because it's not your kid's job to help you work this out. Right, if you're just gonna vomit all your nonsense onto them and suddenly it's their responsibility to process all of that,

that's an act of violence on your kid. Versus like, hey, you know, I have a history with alcoholism and I've been sober for a long time. And like, let me tell you about like how all of this happened and like kind of how I manage it now. Like that can be helpful, especially, you know, with a genetic predisposition or what have you

to do it like, you know, from just a place of calm detachment, you know, as a means of like helping them make sense of how they're gonna navigate those opportunities when they arise about whether they're gonna pick up or indulge or not. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we have hard earned wisdom. We want to spare our kids pain.

There are lessons we've learned. We'd rather they don't have to learn them the hard way. And teenagers don't like to be told, right? So we have to sort of sit in that tension of how do we give good guidance, give good advice, share what we need to in a way that makes them receptive. And not allow our emotions to be regulated by theirs. Like this idea like it's our job to love them,

it's not their job to love us. It's true, it's true. And there's so much gratification in parenting and so much pleasure, but it's really, we're here to care for them. And caring for ourselves well is part of how we do that. But it's really about creating an environment for kids where they feel safe, where there is warmth,

where there is structure, where there's a grownup in the room. And just seeing what unfolds from there. Well, I think that's a good place to kind of end it for today and set up the podcast, which I believe is episode 193 of the show, Should I Share My Mental Health Struggles With My Teen? It is the Ask Lisa podcast.

You can find it on all the podcast platforms, our newest and most exciting new addition to the Voicing Change Network. And we're just, we're delighted to have you Lisa. So thank you for coming and sharing with me today. And everybody should go and listen and subscribe and do all this stuff. Yeah.

Rich, thrilled to be partnering with you in this. We're very honored and touched, so exciting times ahead. Indeed. And you'll come back and we'll do a full blown one. Sounds great. Cool, cheers, peace. Tell me a parenting issue everyone struggles with,

with tweens and teens, but no one talks about. Rina, I think a lot of people feel like they just don't know how to connect to their kid anymore. I'm Reena Nainan and welcome to Ask Lisa, the psychology of parenting podcast. And I'm Dr. Lisa DeMore. We bring you science-backed strategies for managing anxiety, discipline, intense emotions, and more. We decode tough parenting challenges with tips that you can use right now.

So subscribe to Ask Lisa, the psychology of parenting podcast, and join our YouTube community today. We're here to help you untangle family life. Episode 193, should I talk with my teens about my own mental health challenges. So how are you doing? How about you? You know, I feel like I'm on this hamster wheel. I never get off, but I keep telling myself, oh, it's just five more minutes and you're going to get a nice long break.

And that break never comes. No, it really, the to-do list never ends, Reena. And I don't know how I have not figured this out yet. I keep thinking that somewhere, somewhere there is an end to the to-do list. And I really am trying to be like I step in and out of it. I'm just not in it all the time, but I kind of feel like I'm in it all the time anyway. I wonder what studies say about this. We always think that we're going to be done and we're not done. Well, actually, it's funny you should mention that because there actually is one of my favorite

research studies shows that- Of course you have a study on this. I have a favorite. Of course a favorite. I like to live for these. We have a study that shows that if you ask people about how busy they are now and how busy they'll be in the future, they reliably say, oh, I'm very, very busy now, but I won't be busy in six months. They think somehow out there is leisure.

We have to believe that or else we're going to self-combust. Well, it's true, but this is also how we do ourselves in because we agree to things in the future because we think, well, I'm busy now, but I won't be busy then, so yes, let's put it on the calendar. And that's how we end up with these over full calendars, is this distorted belief that the future is somehow full of leisure and extra time. Oh, we've got to learn to say no. That's a hard thing. It's a very hard thing. I love this letter that came into our inbox about a parent who's dealing with their own history of mental health challenges. I want to get right to it.

Dear Dr. Lisa, I'm a mom of three teenagers, as most parents with children of this age. My husband and I are having lots of conversations about mental health. I come from a family with mental health issues, including alcoholism, depression, anxiety, and eating disorders. I myself had anorexia during college.

I've not shared this part of my story with my children. And I think it is important that I do so so they understand their family history and how important it is for them to build healthy coping skills. I'm not sure how to start this conversation and how much to share with them at this point in their adolescence.

What do you think is the best way to talk to my children about my past? Thank you. Do you think a lot of families are dealing with this? I think more families are dealing with this than not. I would say that it's probably the rule, not the exception, that families have things in their past, either the parents of their own past or even family history, that they are trying to figure out how and when to bring up with their kids. I think about in my clinical practice how not rare it has been that I will sit with families who maybe I'm caring for their teenager and they will say, oh, by the way, also her

grandfather who died before she was born actually died by suicide. We've never mentioned it. But here, you know, our kid is kind of depressed. Should we tell her? Do we bring this up? Do we not? I would say this is having things that families are trying to figure out how and when to bring up with their teenager is more the rule than the exception. But I worry if I bring it up that they're gonna think, okay, I'm gonna have suicidal thoughts. I'm gonna be this person. I'm're going to think, okay, I'm going to have suicidal thoughts. I'm going to be this person. I'm going to.

So as a parent, I don't want to mention it or bring it up. I think that's exactly right. I mean, we all feel so loving and worried about our kids that you don't want to do anything that's going to rock the boat. And so this letter writer, and I think lots of parents sit in this tension of it feels like this is important information for my kid to have, but what's going to be the impact of sharing this information and is it going to have unintended consequences? I want to pick up where she talks about, I think what released it out of the issue she

talked about was the eating disorder, right? This is your expertise. I mean, why do you think the mom should do in regard to knowing that she had a history of an eating disorder? So I think this helps us kind of start to tease apart some principles that can be useful as families are thinking about if and when they're going to say something to their teenager. And I would say as a generic rule, you should have this, whatever the issue is, it's probably best if it's pretty well metabolized on your end. So I think one thing that would be really, really helpful in these conversations is if any parent who is suffering with something or has suffered

with something, so this parent with a needing disorder, really feels like it's behind them, really feels like it's something that they have worked their way through, they understand in retrospect what occurred, they can offer insight into it. That would be the ideal condition. talk And if they're not, Lisa? Lisa Cotter Exactly. I mean, of course, we have parents who, of course, suffer while parenting. So let's come back to that because I think that's a really important question. Like what if a parent is actually working their way through depression? Like how do we talk with kids about it?

But for something that's in the past, minimally I would want it to be something that the parent feels like they've got their hands around and it doesn't feel uncontrolled to them when it comes up. So that's one principle. I think another principle that we really want to bring to bear here is how we bring up delicate conversations about anything with teenagers, right? Like even if you have no drug history in your family, you're gonna need to have a conversation with your teenager about fentanyl, right? I mean so like this is a constant challenge in parenting

teenagers is that we have important and delicate things we need to say and it's not always easy to get those across to teenagers. So one way to think about this is to remember teenagers have a lot going on. Their minds are very busy. They're thinking about 40 different things. We may be aware of two of them, but there's 38 more happening. And so when we just suddenly bring up something big and important out of the blue, it tends not to go that well because they didn't see it coming. They weren't really ready. They

don't know why we're talking about this. So I think that part of what we want to look for here are openings. So I think, you know, especially with teenagers, you're going to get these openings. They're going to talk about the classmate who is losing weight rapidly. They're going to talk about the classmate who's getting into way too much booze, right? So your chances of having a successful conversation go way up if you're actually stepping into a conversational line the teenager has already started as opposed to being like, hey, I've got a big thing, sit down, let's have this conversation. So I would wait.

I think I would wait until, and it's very high guarantee, at some point the teenager's going to bring up something in the vein of what the parent wants to talk about. And then I think the parent can say something like, actually I have more experience with eating disorders than I wish I did. I actually had one in college. Do you want to hear a little bit more? I think giving teenagers a little control about how much they hear or how much they hear all at once is probably a third thing I would strongly recommend. But do you think it could be a little bit jarring if this comes up casually in conversation like whoa whoa what? You had an eating disorder? And there were maybe no signs or maybe

suffering from alcoholism maybe there are no signs. I think it could be very jarring. I think I mean there are parents who are sober and their kids are maybe very aware of it because the parent doesn't drink, so it may have come up more naturally than something like an eating disorder will. But I really, I do think, Reena, there's value when you have to share some pretty heavy stuff about your own history. I think that part of how we signal to teenagers that we have it in hand is to say, I have more experience with this than I wish I did, how much do you want to hear, there are things I want to tell you, but you let me know how

much you want to hear right now. I think that that makes it far more bearable, but I'll tell you, Rena, like you are right. Teenagers want us to be boring. Kids need us to be boring. I think that in many ways, it's ideal for them if we can give them a pretty, not a lot going on over here, just available to support you as needed. And so when we bring up truths about the fact that we're whole and real people with long complicated histories sometimes, we have to account for the fact that that's not exactly what they are always counting on or wanting. Lisa, I want to pause and take a quick break. We're going to talk a little bit more about this and the aspects of family history and

should you talk about all of the issues that you might have had, how do you approach that? We'll be right back. You'll listen to Ask Lisa, the psychology of parenting. I'm super proud to announce my next venture, Voicing Change Media, this beautiful consortium of thinkers, storytellers, artists, and visionaries all committed to fostering meaningful exchanges and sharing thought-provoking content. Voicing Change Media will feature shows like Soul Boom with Rainn Wilson, Mentor Buffet with Alexi Pappas,

Feel Better Live More with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, and The Proof with Simon Hill. You can explore this network and all its offerings at voicingchange.media. its offerings at voicingchange.media. Welcome back to Ask Lisa, the Psychology of Parenting. We are talking on today's episode about what do you do if you have your own mental health issues in the past and when do you approach them and talk to them about your children? Lisa, you were saying a little bit about this will come up organically in a way that you can enter the

conversation and discuss it. But what about, I want to go back to eating disorders. I don't know, that just stood out to me in the letter. We talk about it a lot. You have flagged so many times that this is not just a white girl problem, that it affects men, it affects boys and girls from all different races. So talk to me about what, about that. It does. It affects people of all races, ethnicities, sizes, right? I mean, eating disorders are very equal opportunity and they're very dangerous. And so we want to be really thoughtful about how we talk about them. So for sure, if a teenager brings it up, right, I think that that creates an opening to start to have a conversation. It also may be that a teenager brings it up, right? I think that that creates an opening to start to have a conversation. It also may be that a teenager brings it up, right, using finger quotes,

by going on a diet, right? That you can imagine, can you imagine, right, as a parent who has suffered with an eating disorder, knows how harrowing they are, how scary it would be to see your kid suddenly get weirdly serious about fitness or weirdly restrictive in what they eat. And I think here again is an opening, an opportunity. And I think if the parent themselves suffered from an eating disorder, there also may be a genetic loading

that the kid needs to know about. Well, talk to you about that, because I was wondering if you have gone through these mental health issues, are your children higher probability that they will be susceptible or will definitely have these? There's no definite will you will have. We know that for sure.

There's never a one-to-one correspondence, but is there a vulnerability? And the answer is like, yeah, truly. And we do know that there's a genetic component to eating disorders. This doesn't mean your kid's going to have an eating disorder, but it does mean that you probably need to flag to them that they need to be careful, that they may be more vulnerable. And then this is the same is true for alcoholism. We know that this can run in families not just from what we would call environmental effects of kids seeing adults drinking more, that there can be a biological vulnerability. And so if there's a

family history of alcoholism, I think we need to let kids know. And I think that it can be very helpful to actually drill down on exactly what it is, maybe getting transmitted genetically. And exactly what it is, maybe transmute, you know, getting transmitted genetically. And this is stuff we pretty much know, but like, you know, we're always learning. So for eating disorders, some of what we know can get shared or can be a biological vulnerability is a very high tolerance for hunger. Not everybody can tolerate hunger. I cannot tolerate hunger. As soon as I'm hungry, I've got to eat. There are people though who can just ignore their hunger and we think this may have a genetic loading and we know that it can make it easier to have an eating disorder if you can just not mind being hungry. For alcoholism, the way we think about where the genetic loading comes through, there's a few different features.

So fundamentally, alcohol is a biological agent that acts on our biologies, and everybody's biology interacts differently with biological agents, right? Some people don't like Advil. Some people, it's just different for different bodies. So for alcoholism, we think there's a few mechanisms in play. One is how pleasurable you find alcohol to be, right? Some people don't really like the feeling of being buzzed. Other people love the feeling of being buzzed, and this can be true for other substances

as well. We think that is genetically conferred in part. Another thing is how much it takes you to feel an effect. Some people are born with just a very high top, like they can drink a lot and it just doesn't really have much impact. They are at higher risk for alcoholism and substance concerns. And then the last is how bad the after effects are. So some people, most people, right, if they get really drunk, they're gonna feel really terrible the next day. There are people who have a biology where they actually shake it off real fast and it doesn't have that much of a negative consequence for them that is also biologically based and that makes us worried.

So telling kids, it's not just random genetic, having them know what the risk really looks like is important. I still have to tell you, if I have mental health issues as a parent, I don't feel comfortable discussing them. It makes me anxious and I just don't want to have, and I know we've got to have these uncomfortable conversations, but what's your advice when you have that talk, even if you're

entering it in a natural organic way? What should I keep in mind if I have mental health issues and I'm talking to my kids about this? Well, it's funny, Rena, I'm actually going to think about something that Tova said last week in our conversation about like what's this about for me? Tova Klein who was talking to us about building resilience in kids. Yeah. And so you know that question of like I feel like I need to talk with my kid about my history of and then fill in the blank and yet I am coming up against a lot

of internal resistance. I think that is such a good signal to actually unpack that resistance a little bit. What's my worry? What's my worry in telling my kid? Because say you smoked a ton of weed in high school. Say you smoked a ton of weed in high school that you totally regret it, you wish you hadn't, and you feel like, okay, I've got this life lesson. I want to keep my kid from making the same mistakes. I want to say something to them, but also I don't want to say anything to them.

So interrogating the like, what's the worry? And I've got shame. I've got shame about it. I don't want them to know. So maybe they'll think it's okay because I did it. Maybe they have an impression of me that I think will change. Those are wonderful reasons. I think you just rattled off a lot of the top concerns, right, which is I don't want

them to think less of me. I don't want them to take it as permission. What was the last one you said it was so right on? The shame. I think the shame of it, right? Okay. I feel ashamed about this. Yeah. about this. So I think that one of the beautiful things about teenagers is that

you can have meta conversations. You can have conversations about the conversation you're about to have. And so just to take one of those concerns. So say a parent comes to the place where they are ready to talk with their teenager about having smoked a lot of pot in high school. And yet they are anxious that their kid is going to take this as permission for the kid to do as they please around cannabis. I think that past age 14, you can say to most teenagers, listen, I want to talk with you about my own pot smoking in high school and what I learned and I want to try to spare you lessons that I learned the hard way, but let me just say at the outset,

this is not me giving you permission to do it. Just tell them. Tell them that I'm sharing this because I want you to know I'm sparing you. I love that language you said, I'm sparing you. Yeah. Yeah, I want to spare you. I learned the hard way. I'd rather you not have to learn this lesson.

You can do the same. Say there's something I feel like I need to share with you about my own struggle with a needing disorder in high school or college. But I got to tell you, I feel kind of ashamed. There's a part of me that still feels shame about it and I just want to play my cards face up. So teenagers are generous and interested and very tender around their adults' vulnerabilities. I've learned that. They know and they don't know that we're whole and real people with histories. They don't like to think about it all the time. But if we have it under good enough control and can just talk about it in a pretty straightforward way, In my experience, teenagers can take that

in stride and leave with whatever message it was that you were hoping that they would take from it. When you look at healthy coping, Lisa, I'm just curious because I want to also talk about what makes for good healthy coping. Well, it's interesting when you were reading that letter, Reena, the writer said something about like, how do I help them move towards healthy coping? And as soon as she, those words came out, I was like, oh, this lady has this totally under control.

Because what she has fully metabolized is that her eating disorder, whatever else it was about, was about unhealthy coping, right? That's what all of these behaviors that we worry about fundamentally at bottom have in common. Abusing substances is unhealthy coping, eating disorders are unhealthy coping, like you're trying to get your hands around something, you've landed on an unproductive, self-destructive strategy. So I think that when we need to talk with teenagers about past events, past history, family life, the all-time opening that's going to come is somehow around coping, right? Kids have to cope. They have their ups and downs. They have good days and bad days.

And so we're watching their coping and we're reflecting on their coping. And so when your kids like, oh my gosh I had the worst day ever. I'm gonna go for a run, you know without being too corny about it You can be like, you know, that is such beautiful coping. That is exactly how we handle hard things It sounds so corny But you're you're getting them to be aware that what they're doing is taking the pressure off like, you know Gonna go play for play basketball and go listen to really loud music in my room. Exactly. And just say, and so I think, you know, every relationship between parent and child is its own universe and its own unique thing and you can't really tell people how to do it. But I think that the

fundamental is if a parent knows they're in a good place with their kid to say, you know, that is such healthy coping and it's not the kind of coping I was using when I was in high school and I'm so proud and happy as your parent that you've already found your way to such healthy strategies. Or the flip, right? Say the kid is doing destructive things. Say look, you get to be upset, you get to have hard things. Unhealthy coping is not an option. The strategy you're using is unhealthy. I have a lot of sympathy for this. I chose unhealthy strategies when I was in high school, but I love you too much. I'm not letting you do it this way.

Just tell me, what do you see in teens that are like, you're like, yes, that's really great coping skills. What is healthy coping that you would love to see in teens? Well, I'm just like, I get such a smile on my face around this question because healthy coping and teens Can look so different from healthy coping and adults right healthy coping and adults. It's like you call a friend You go out to dinner, you know, take a long shower Healthy coping and teens honest to God can be your super hairy 17 year old son rereading Captain Underpants Teen sometimes go back to little kids stuff as part of healthy coping.

Oh, really? I didn't know that. Teens, they love video games as part of healthy coping. And within limits, like a distracting video game that just connects them with friends or changes what they're thinking about, that's healthy coping. Teens love music. They love listening to music for healthy coping. Teens will go do physical stuff. Teens love to eat comfort foods for healthy coping. And again, within limits, everything in moderation, that's totally fine. Rina, we've talked about this. The skincare, over-the-top skincare stuff can be healthy coping.

So I think that when we're trying to see that our kids are engaged in healthy coping, it's really imperative that adults kind of widen the lens and not just look for like a meditation practice as evidence that their kid is using healthy coping. Yeah. For some people it's like shopping on Amazon or clothing stores, department stores. So I want to ask you as we're wrapping it up here what do you want parents to really keep in mind when it comes to dealing with this topic of telling your children here are my mental health issues that I've struggled with? You know when you ask it that way it

really helps me home in on the key thing, which is it has to be about the teenager. You're sharing this information because of something that you really care about in your teenager, whether they're starting to exhibit behaviors that you're worried about or they have a friend who they're concerned about or you're sending them off to college and somehow these conversations have never come up and you know that college can involve a lot of new stresses and so you want to make sure that they know your worries about biological vulnerabilities to unhealthy coping, right? That there's got to... the kid has to be at the center. I would say don't bring it up if it's just let me

just tell you about my life and a really upsetting and disturbing to my child part of my life. That's not really of how we want to approach this as parents. Like we always want to approach this from the standpoint of what does my kid need and how can I use my experience to try to help meet those needs, not I have this really painful story and the time has come for you to hear it. Because that's how I would approach it. I would be so dramatic and be like, this is just, I'm so embarrassed by this and da da da da da. But you're also saying pay attention to the tone in which you're delivering this. It's got to be about the kid and what the kid needs. And Rina, I think what you're describing a lot of parents would feel, and warranted,

of course, these are like our past can be hard. People go through terrible things. Everyone deserves support around that. That needs to be, I keep using the word metabolized. It needs to be metabolized. It's not your teenager's job to metabolize it for you or to help you metabolize it. And I think that that's the distinction we want to make. So Lisa, tell me what if you're currently suffering with this issue like it's not one and done in the sense of like you've put it in the past it's deep in the closet. What advice do you have for parents who are still struggling? Right there are parents who suffer from clinical depression, there are parents who have anxiety

disorders that are not under control, right? That it is not by any means a basic expectation that we are somehow parenting in full mental health, right? I mean, that that is just not what is realistic, it's not what a lot of people's lives are. I think here there needs to be honesty with kids. I mean, kids can see it, especially teenagers. And I think again, and you know, this is so hard when a parent themselves is suffering, there has to be a focus on the kid and the kid's needs. And so I think a parent needs to try to get to a place where they can say, I am suffering from clinical depression. I am working with my doctors on trying to get it under control and get it to a place where I am really feeling better and able to do more.

I know this cannot be easy for you and I want you to know that your needs matter tremendously to me and I'm gonna make sure they get met even as I find my way through this. I think that anything that a parent is suffering with that stands to interfere with their ability to be the parent they want to be should be addressed from a standpoint like that. A lot to think about here, but you giving us these tips of what to look out for, how to say it, and to keep the kid really at the focus can help with these conversations. I think that's right. And I really am so grateful for this letter because I think this parent speaks to so many parents'

experiences of having lived through something, having a knowledge base that they earned the hard way, loving their kid, wanting to spare their kid pain, wanting to use their own experience to spare their kid pain, and running up against the reality that to even try to coordinate with your teenager about pick up from soccer is next to impossible. So how do you have conversations like this? I think that that just comes across so clearly in the letter, this parent understanding, those tensions of things I want to share, and sometimes the extraordinary challenges of having

even everyday conversations with teenagers. It isn't always easy. In fact, especially at certain age, it becomes really hard, I think. So Lisa, what do you have for us for parenting to go? On this topic of needing to have an important conversation with a teenager, if you get an opening take it. I think that's my number one advice, you don't always get those openings. And I think that there are times in parenting where you feel like, okay, this conversation has to happen, no opening has arrived. I think then we need to be thoughtful about how we approach it and my advice is get on your kid's calendar

Say to your teenager There's a conversation I need to have with you about and then fill in the blank and make it clear that it's not because of Something the kid did you know this has been on my mind and the opportunity has not arisen Are you available for that conversation now is there a time in the next few days where we could sit down? I don't think it'll take us more than 10 minutes, but I'm happy you know, but we'll see engage them in when the conversation happens a little bit about how the conversation happens. Do not do a sneak attack. Sneak attacks don't go well. Great advice. Lisa, thank you. Thank you for walking us through this and thank you to the parent who wrote this letter because

it just makes you realize that you can have these conversations and the right way to do it. I want to thank you so much, Lisa. You bet. And so next week, we're going to talk about what do you do when the kids at school are spreading ugly rumors about your kid? We'll have that next week. I'll see you then. I'll see you next week. Thanks for joining us. Be sure to subscribe to the Ask Lisa podcast so you get the episodes I'll see you next week. constitute or serve as a substitute for professional psychological treatment, therapy, or other types of professional advice or intervention. If you have

concerns about your child's well-being, consult a physician or mental health professional. If you're looking for additional resources, check out Lisa's website at drlisademore.com.