The Rich Roll Podcast - James & Claudia Altucher Choose Themselves: Musings On Relationships, The Power of Vulnerability & Creating Success Doing What You Love

Episode Date: August 6, 2015

I'm so intimidated. This week Julie and I are joined by the dynamic duo of the Choose Yourself era themselves, James and Claudia Altucher — a prolific couple changing the world with insights that are empowering millions to live more dynamic, authentic lives. When someone fires off a long list of occupations in conversation, my instinct tells me that person probably isn't great at any of them. James is not that guy. Abundant in talent. A true polymath with just the right amount of self-deprecation and pitch perfect comedic timing. Blogger, bestselling author, podcaster, public speaker, investor, entrepreneur, columnist, and humorist, he seemingly does it all. Oh yeah, he's also a nationally ranked chess master. James had made millions, lost millions and made millions again. Maybe he'll lose it again. I don't know. He’s started and run something like 20 companies. Then there's a slew of venture capital, hedge, angel and sundry other funds he ran. Maybe he still runs them. I don't know that either. In fact, I don't understand any of it. James' Altucher Confidential is one of the most widely read blogs on the internet, amassing over 15 million readers since its 2010 inception. The James Altucher Show debuted as the #1 podcast on all of iTunes last year. I think he's written 13 books. It could be 16. I can't keep track. He writes faster than I can read. My favorite is the Wall Street Journal Best Seller Choose Yourself. A primer for anyone seeking firmer control of destiny, it's a prescient and highly entertaining look at how new and unprecedented tools, technology and economic forces have suddenly emerged to make it possible for individuals to create art, careers, success, fulfillment and change the world without permission from the gatekeepers of yore. When you finish that book, then read The Power of No — also a Wall Street Journal Best Seller. Two things you need to know about this book: (1) it's really great; and (2) learning how and when to say no is, like, really important. Wait, there's a third thing: it was co-authored by James' wife Claudia. In many ways James' perfect match, the Argentinian-born Claudia is also a widely acclaimed multi-hyphenate. Writer, podcaster and yoga aficionado, she has written or co-written three books, including the recently released Become An Idea Machine. You can find her Yoga Podcast on iTunes and read her musings at ClaudiaYoga.com. But I don't know how much longer she can keep this up because any day now she's going to be named the new CEO of Twitter. Am I joking? Read this and you tell me. I had James on my podcast a while ago. Then I did his podcast. Then Julie did Claudia's podcast. They fell in love. I was already in love with James. The only thing? None of us had ever met in person. Until now. Wonder twin powers activate! I'm not sure whose podcast we did. We just hit record and started freestyling. I thought we were interviewing James and Claudia but now I think I have it all backwards. Enjoy! Rich

You know, I think men and to some extent everybody, but everybody needs to be like this perfect success. And I think being comfortable with where you are right now on the path, on the journey to wherever you're going to be, which could mean saying, I don't know, is part of that path. So you have to not know to start the path. That's James Altucher, along with his lovely wife, Claudia, and my lovely wife, Julie, this week on The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. compelling, intriguing, paradigm-breaking minds and personalities across all categories of positive culture change. And the idea behind this really is just to help all of us, myself included, unlock and unleash our collective best, most authentic selves on the world so that we can simply live and be better and impact other people to live and be better. So thanks for subscribing

to the show on iTunes. Thank you for subscribing to my weekly newsletter. If you haven't done that, get on that. If you want to support the show, it would be huge if you could just take a quick moment and give us a review on iTunes. It really does help us out very, very much. And I greatly appreciate that. You can also support the show by donating. We got a donate button. Thank you to everybody who has gone DEF CON 5 and done that. We really appreciate it. And you can also support by just clicking on the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. It does not cost you a single cent extra on any of those purchases. So it's a really great free way to support the mission.

And you can make it easy on yourself by just bookmarking the link from the banner out on my site to your browser. That way you don't have to keep coming to my website. And you know what? Everybody wins that way. So for this episode of the podcast, Julie and I sit down with James Altucher and his wife, Julie and I sit down with James Altucher and his wife, Claudia. And I have to say, I'm a huge fan of this couple. They're just so dynamic. They do so many things that it's really hard to know exactly where to begin describing them, but I'm going to give it a shot. So let's start with James. James is a blogger, an author, a podcaster, a public speaker, an investor, an entrepreneur, a columnist. The guy's even a chess master. I just can't get enough of this multi-talented hyphenate. He is endlessly fascinating to me.

And so if I had to boil him down to just one phrase, it would probably be something like profoundly and hilariously prolific in the most insightful and intelligent way. His blog, Altature Confidential at jamesaltature.com, jamesaltature.com, the guy gets something like 15 million readers since 2010. It's really witty, incredibly funny, and intelligent and helpful. I highly recommend you check that out. In addition to that, James has started and run something like 20 companies, many of which he sold for big exits. He's also run venture capital funds, hedge funds, angel funds, and currently sits on the boards of several companies. He hosts the extremely popular weekly podcast, The James Altucher Show, where I've been privileged to be a guest. And as for

books, the guy has written like, I don't know, 13, 15, 16 maybe books, many of which have been huge bestsellers. I'd start with Choose Yourself. I love that book. these incredible opportunities for individuals to do everything from create art and careers and both inward and outward success without all the permission-giving middlemen. Basically, I think it's a must-read primer for anybody who's interested in taking firmer control of the reins of life. All right, Claudia. Claudia is quite accomplished in her own right. Not only is she James's wife, she is most often his co-collaborator. She's a writer.

She's a yoga teacher. She blogs at claudiayoga.com where she hosts her own podcast, The Yoga Podcast. And she also co-hosts James' Ask Altature podcast. She's the author of a book called 21 Things to Know Before Starting a Yoga Practice. And she co-authored two books with James, including The Power of No, which was a Wall Street Journal bestseller, as well as Become an Idea Machine. So I had James on the podcast about a year and a half ago.

That was episode 75, if you want to check that out. But that exchange was on Skype. I was in New York City. We had plans to get together, but a huge snowstorm descended upon Manhattan and that prevented him from being able to connect with me in person. So I never actually met James until this exchange. And nonetheless, when our book, The Plant Power Way, came out, I sent those guys a copy, and I was really touched to hear back a couple weeks later that James and Claudia had been really enjoying the recipes. They were super into it. And that led to me being on his podcast and this kind of really cool relationship that started to develop between Julie and Claudia. I mean, they're like peas in a pod.

They're both super into yoga and meditation and all things spiritual. So when Julie and I were in New York City earlier this summer, we made a point to connect, to have dinner and do this big joint podcast, which I would characterize more as like a cross cast because none of us were really quite sure whose podcast we were doing. We just hit record and started talking and this is what came out of it. Pretty free-form conversation that traverses all sorts of subjects, everything from meditation to nutrition to marriage and relationships, what it's like to work with and collaborate with your partner, entrepreneurship, time management, of course, podcasting, and so much more. So I really love these guys. They really are quite special people. And so I really hope that you enjoy this exchange. So without further ado, let's just get into it. Let's do it. Let's do the show. Here's the interview. Enjoy.

Yeah, that was my first question. Whose podcast are we doing? Are we doing yours? Are we going to share this? We can share the audio file and both use it, I suppose. I guess so. What would be the biggest file and both use it, I suppose. I guess so, yeah. What would be the biggest, best use here in entertainment? I don't know. Yes, of course. We could talk about it. Of course.

We'll see how it goes. One, two, three. One, two, three. Looking fabulous. This is great. It's Instagramming and selfie. We already started, by the way. Yeah, of course.

We have to. That's how it works. I want to Instagram. All right. He's going to go get his phone. So I just want to start then. I'll just tell Julie how amazed I am. I've been trying your meditation ever since you came on the yoga podcast, and it has been like a trip for me.

It's been amazing what has happened, including inhibitions that have been lifting off of me. And I'm really grateful for that. This is incredible. So tell us, what are some of the inhibitions that have lifted? And what are you doing now? What's happening? What does your morning look like? It's crazy. I have to leave the house early even.

It seems I have lost all shame. And I'm ready to start rapping. That's so great. See, I knew. Things get interesting. See, the artists exist inside each one of us. No, I'm psyched to hear that. That's true. That's very true. Like there is a creative person inside all of us and all it takes is that little encouragement or that little, you know, him looking at me and saying, of course you can. And I'm like, wow, yes, I can. Yeah, literally, she wrote this morning 10 reasons why she should be CEO of Twitter. I know, I was going to get into that.

I was going to say, like, how is the campaign going? And how is the meditation playing into this campaign? You laid out a very compelling argument, I would say. And it's just because I told her, yeah, you would be qualified to be CEO of Twitter. So then she just wrote this post. Like, I looked at him. There were some really good ideas. Right?

Thank you. I looked at him, and I'm like, are you saying I could be qualified to be CEO of Twitter? And he looked at me in the face and said, yes. And this, you know, my father told me I should learn how to type. So I always thought there was a ceiling. But when he said that, I was like, well, maybe I can. And my 10 ideas were solid. I hope Twitter flies me to San Francisco. Yeah. Well, wasn't isn't I mean, Dick Costolo is a stand up comedian, right? Yeah. For like a while,

like not as a hobby, like that was like his thing. Well, he tells a joke. He was at a reunion of Second City, which is kind of the renowned improv place in Chicago where all the stand-up comedians learn their trade and so he was at a reunion and Steve Carroll comes up to him and they're talking and you know

Dick is already the CEO of Twitter and Steve says you know too bad it didn't really work out for you so but maybe now he'll go back to Second City and Steve says, you know, too bad it didn't really work out for you. Maybe now he'll go back to Second City. He's going to end up on the cast of Saturday Night Live after being CO2. He's going to land on his feet. But I think, you know, getting back to the meditation as the support and the portal to you discovering this superpower that you have inside of yourself,

I think we all have superpowers. And really, I often feel it's like there's this thing called divine mind. And it's sort of like this field of every potential, you know, every outcome, every possible event. And tapping into meditation is being able to merge with that force. And so it's almost like you can fall into the gap of meditation and stillness, and somehow you become one with this stream of divine intelligence, and you really can do anything and be anything and experience anything. And I think it's even way beyond what we know here in the 3D physical realm. I think it keeps getting more and more fun.

Yes. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Absolutely. So go for the wrapping, and then after that you it could be it could be wild well we definitely always do whatever is kind of um in front of us that seems like it uh will help us i don't know either learn more or help others or you know whatever so for. So, for instance, you guys coming into town, and by the way, we haven't introduced any of us. Yeah, no, we do that later.

It doesn't matter. Rich Roll and Julie Roll, Claudia. It's Julie Pyatt. It's Julie Pyatt, and I am Claudia Azula. Claudia Azula, James Alvacher. We're all hanging out doing a podcast together. Literally at your dining room table. Right.

Yeah, and Rich just displayed an amazing capability show of putting together podcast equipment on the go. This is literally like podcasters on a dining room table drinking tea. Like Seinfeld.

There's no agenda. We actually had a whole unrecorded podcast that transpired before we turned the recording on. On the elevator. The elevator podcast. But anyway, no, it's a pleasure to be with you guys. It's been fun watching your journey together and separately and watching you guys grow. And James, I said this to you last time we spoke on Skype, but I've been a big fan of your writing for quite some time.

And so it's really fun to meet you guys in person. Yeah, and vice versa. I mean, I was on your podcast, I think, about a year or so ago. And now you've been on mine. You guys have been on podcasts. We do a lot. Yeah. And so now this is the first time we're meeting.

Right. Well, I don't know if you remember. I came here on the cusp of Snowpocalypse. And we had arranged you were going to come into the city to do the pockets in person. And then we got hit with a huge blizzard, and that didn't happen. So we ended up doing it by Skype. Yeah, we get those in New York, and they're horrible. You guys are so lucky to live in California.

Well, now we have a little water problem. That's true. What's the problem with the water? Lack of water. Oh, okay. Lack thereof. It has something to do with the reason that we're plant-based advocates. But California is in a desert, so it's always going to have...

It always does, but yeah, it's particularly kind of acute at the moment. So it'll be interesting to see how it pans out. Like even all the snowpack is melted. Like it's rather dire. Yeah. So now, how did you guys meet? Because it seems like, and we discussed this

a little bit, Rich, but it seems like when you first met, you were probably 100% different. And now you're only like 50% different. Yeah.

He's definitely still 100% different. No. Are you going to answer that or why are you on your phone? You go ahead. Okay. I'm busy.

Yeah, I think I mentioned, I think I said to you, yeah, she's like on her phone. What are you doing? Put that away. Turn it off. I don't know that we were, yeah, I mean, we're very different in certain respects, but we met in a yoga class. So at least I was sort of inclined to, you know, sort of look into maybe a better path than I was living.

sort of look into maybe a better path than I was living. And that doesn't mean that I was adequately practicing that in every aspect of my life. But, yeah, I had, I mean, I had gotten out of rehab and I was sort of trying to develop, you know, a more kind of spiritually based way of living. And I was dipping my toe into yoga. So what do I do? I go to the yoga studio that has, has like the most attractive women in all of town very important strategy for all men and there's only like three guys in the class

men don't know this it's the best place if you want to meet women like men go to a bar where there's no women right and no women you want to meet and yet in a yoga class or if you go to like a tango class or something like that or a cooking class you're going to meet it's going to be like a 90 to 1 ratio of women to men.

It's kind of interesting. But, you know, the other thing that's kind of interesting about that is that when you're a very devoted yoga practitioner and you're in your room and you've found your tribe, you're extremely protective about that. And so in my experience, Rich and I were only one of two couples that set up in this entire community over a very long period of time. There were, that's not to say there weren't sexual relations going on, you know, randomly, there was a lot of that, but, but, um, but I would say that, you know, if it started to get serious, it was like, whoa, like, I don't want to invite her into my room or him into my room because this is my yoga. If it goes bad, then it's less of it.

But were you the teacher, Julie? No, she wasn't the teacher. She was in the class, and I'd gotten out of rehab, and I made this commitment to be celibate for my first year of sobriety, and I actually practiced that, and it was a very empowering, illuminating experience that actually it was amazing, to put it bluntly. You were like a monk.

Yeah, it was a very kind of powerful, you know, period of self-reflection. But anyway, I started going to this yoga class. And like Julie said, it's sort of like, well, I don't want to – like I really enjoyed going to it. And I figured if I like dated someone once that year was up and it didn't go well, then there'd be that weird awkwardness of like going back to that class. And so I, you know, I had my eye on Julie, but like it was, you know, we'd met, we kind of knew each other for quite a while before that actually transpired, but it was a pretty interesting time and a very interesting yoga class. Like Russell Simmons would come to this class. Like there were

some pretty interesting people who dropped in and the other couple that ended up getting married that basically connected the same weekend that we originally hooked up where that was Bobby Shriver and his now wife Melissa. So it was like some pretty amazing people. Bobby Shriver like related to every other Shriver. Exactly. I have two questions for you on this. First of all, the only other person I ever heard of that went a year at Celibate became a very angry, angry man. And I wonder if you had a lot of anger issues during that year because that sounds like a lot of men think that that could be a good thing.

But I saw it going in the wrong direction and it wasn't pretty. Well, I think that's revelatory in its own right. Like I didn't find it to be a pure, I didn't experience anger in that. Like what I learned was that a lot of my addiction issues were tied up in how I related to women. And I had to kind of unravel that knot and learn something about how I communicate and how I feel about myself and how I interact with the opposite sex. And that gets tied up with self-esteem and all that sort of stuff. So I really needed to focus on that and work through a lot of those issues so that I could get to a place where I could have a healthy, sober relationship with somebody, you know, with a woman. And without going through that process for myself, I don't know that I would have gotten to the place to be a person that someone like Julie would have been interested in. So for me, it was like,

you know, it was a huge part of my personal growth. And I said, I, the second question, I said, I had to, my second question was who spoke to who first? I don't know. Here you talk. Here, you talk. Well, let's see. A friend of mine told me that Rich was interested in me. And at the time, I thought that he might be. That sounds very high school-ish, by the way. It was very. We were talking to her friend.

Yoga, don't tell her. Right. It actually was. This was very high school-ish in the yoga room during those days. But I thought Rich was probably gay because he hung out with a certain guy in the class who seemed very gay. And also Rich was also very, he was lifting weights more at the time. So he was kind of a little bit more, he can bulk up like really quickly. And so I don't know. So I just, I thought he wasn't really in my,

he wasn't in my field. I didn't think that that was happening, but there later I found out there was a joke. Um, Rich told a couple of friends, um, that he, when he saw me,

you will, you should tell the story. Uh, well, Julie was like this wild animal. Like she, you know, like she was this exotic wild animal.

And at the time, you have like a lot of, like, well, she had, no, like this wild animal. Like she was this exotic wild animal. And at the time. Did you have like a lot of hair on your armpits? No, like she had like orange and blue like streaks in her hair. And like I'd never experienced like a creature of this sort before. So I was fascinated and intrigued. And I was like, God, that one. Like I just knew. You know, you hear about like, you know, it's so cliched.

Oh, love at first sight or something like that. But like I knew when I saw her, I was like just like completely fixated on her. And there was something inside of me that I said to my friend. I was like, that is my next girlfriend. Like I just knew it, you know. And it's interesting because like I had gotten out of a marriage disaster and I was like right out of rehab. Like I was not a vision for you. You know what I mean?

Like I had a lot of problems and a lot of stuff to like work through and rebuild in my life. And I always thought, well, my next girlfriend is going to be like 24, like no, you know, like no baggage, like really just simple. And, and here, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm like walking this path towards this woman where, you know, she's in the process of getting divorced. She has two sons and she's, you know, a couple of years older than me. And there's a lot of, you know, sort of complicated things that are revolving around in her life. And it's sort of, you know, it's that adage that, you know, you don't, you don't choose the person that you love. It's like, it just, it occurs. And so, you know, but it was kind of interesting and precarious. Like it wasn't like what I thought

was going to happen. It was exactly the opposite. And I was getting out of a 10 year marriage. And so, you know, I had plans to just date and be really wild and just do whatever I wanted to do and be free. And he was looking for, like he said, a much younger girl. But the one common thing is neither one of us were looking for like marriage. And it actually was divinely worked out because I was extremely protective of my sons. And so I would not let him meet them for about nine months. So on the weeks that I had them, I just didn't see him because I was not going to just bring a bunch of people into the boy's life and out and all that. And that was also fine by him. And I think it gave him the space and the safety for it not to be like, oh,

there's two little kids, you know, and, you know, they weren't his. So how old were they? They were three and four, three and four. And so yeah, it was this process. And I have to say, I'm extremely surprised. I am. When I first really talked to Rich, it was at this retreat, actually, it was on a yoga retreat, then we had gone on retreat. And so I sat down and talked to him kind of at the retreat. And in the first conversation I had with him, I was like, shit, this guy's like, he's a marrying guy. Like, he's not like a dating guy. And I knew... How could you tell he was a marrying guy? It was like a memory or a resonance or something like i'm sure we know each

other from past life and i mean there's no way that we would that that you know he saw me and picked me out of the room and was like that's going to be my next wife you know you recognized yeah so it's a recognition underneath it's like i talked to him when i was like oh like because i just wanted to date and it was like this was the exact opposite of that. So yeah, so and it's, he turned you around. Yeah, I mean, it's been, I think it's been amazing. I mean, I think in the early days, there was a lot of, you know, kind of acclimating that we, you know, we, we were getting used to each other and sort of figuring all of that out. And I would say that, you know, his, his path and sobriety and what he learned from being sober has been, you know,

a beautiful part of him, because there was always a ground for, you know, conflict resolution and, you know, discussion and getting to the other side in a very intimate way. Like, so, you know, being really honest, but being willing to own your side of the street and actually go through to the other side. And so we made it through some of these obstacles that are, I think, characteristic of a new relationship. And I have to say, I mean, what Rich and I have experienced as a couple after then having our own two kids and also going through just the life transformation that we went through, I never imagined this level of intimacy was possible. So it was not obvious to either one of us, but it has turned into a really amazing union. I kind of think, too, you guys are similar to us in the sense that

many of the things that you do professionally, you do together, right? So, I mean, you just have this book, Plant Power, out together. Which we love and we're eating from. Yeah, no, she's, every recipe is like out of your, out of Plant Power. We're eating plant-based. I'm not allowed in the kitchen, so every recipe she makes. But, so it's similar to us. Like, we spend like 18 hours a day together or however many.

So just because we're always working together on things. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty interesting. Like there's a lot of overlap, I think, in your relationship and ours. And I'm interested in hearing how you guys make that work. I mean, you guys really are integrated in what you're doing. I mean, you kind of have your own little fiefdoms. But if you drew the Venn diagram, there's quite an overlap. And I would say it's similar in what we do. I mean, we kind of have our own little fiefdoms, but they, if you drew the Venn diagram, there's quite an overlap. And I would say it's similar in what we do. I mean, we kind of have our own separate things.

But, you know, we're united in, and we're very like in sync in terms of like what our collective mission is together. And that doesn't mean that, I mean, we don't spend 18 hours a day. No, we definitely do not spend 18 hours a day and we would not survive 18 hours a day. So we're very different in that way. But yeah, I would say with us, the global mission is exact. And then we have very different ways of operating within that. And we're a great team. Like, I mean, I think the first time that we found out we made a film together, we wrote feature script and we made uh we made a movie and a 20-minute movie and uh and we worked on that together it was it was really

fun really amazing and rich directed and he's a brilliant director he was really great so anyway we knew then that we were a good team and then you know because when you're when you're working on movie it's yeah i mean i think i think it functions because there's a yin and a yang. You know, like Julie has a skill set that I don't have and vice versa. So, I mean, how does that work with you guys? And how did you dip your toe into the idea that you would be working together? And what have been kind of the pitfalls and how have you navigated that? Yeah. Well, you know, I fell in love with James pretty much instantaneously.

We met on J-Date. I'm not Jewish, so I'm sorry. How did you get on J-Date? Is that a violation of the terms and service? I think it's illegal. It kind of is now. I really don't encourage it. Claudia just didn't understand. She didn't read that part. No, no. I'll tell you exactly why I went on J-Date. I went on J-Date and matched because I wanted a boyfriend that would pay his half of the rent. I went on Jaden and Match because I wanted a boyfriend that would pay his half of the rent.

Like, I was tired of paying the rent every time for every boyfriend. And so I thought maybe a Jewish boy will be, a Jewish man will be able to. Sort of like reverse anti-Semitism, you know. Oh, Jews are going to pay rent. I've also lived in New York for like 20 years now. So, you know, you end up. You're like honorary Jewish. I really like. I wanted.

I had a collage. I wanted a Jewish guy with glasses. No, literally. She had like. The first time I went over her house, she had like a vision board. And there was a guy with like black curly hair and glasses like taped to this vision board. And so I'm like determined at some point to like track down this guy. And say you're actually

the one on the vision board, Claudia. This is who she sees when she looks at me. Exactly. But of course, he was married and he had two children. No, not when, I mean, I had two children, but I wasn't married. You were in the process of divorce. Right. Yeah, I was separated. You were separated. And so he had two children, which I didn't see for a year. Look at the similarities, too. Wow, interesting.

Amazing. Because we wanted to make the transition easy for the children, which I totally got. Isn't that nice? That's so cool to hear. It's important because it's traumatic for the kids, you know? It is very traumatic for the kids, you know. It is very traumatic for the kids. Like you read in all these books that kids perpetually, no matter what, even if it was like, even if they recognized that their parents were unhappy together, kids have in the back of their mind this vision that always that their parents are going to get back together.

Even though my kids love Claudia and I'm sure it's the same thing here, you know, I'm sure in the back of their heads there's always this thought. So you have to be very careful how you kind of make that introduction. So James introduced me to the kids as a babysitter one day when he was going on TV, and I played with them for an hour and so on. And then later on, actually,

when James told them I'm getting married, this is a year into, and we were about to get married, the little one said, oh, no. And so James said. Yeah, she started crying. Like, I had to pull over. We were driving to meet Claudia for the first time, or they didn't know it was going to be for the second time, but it was really, they thought it was the first time.

And my little one started to cry. So I pulled over and said, look, let's just talk about it a little bit. And she was very worried, actually. Of two things. Yeah. One thing. One thing, really. She was very worried, actually. Of two things. Yeah. One thing. One thing, really. She was very worried, and this is like a Disney propaganda thing, but she was very worried that her new potential stepmother was going to have black hair.

It's going to be evil and wicked, right? Yeah. Oh, that's so amazing. Oh, no. Yeah. And so when I said, no, no, she actually has, you know, brownish, reddish hair like you. And then he said, I think you're going to like her because you already met her. And they're like, oh, is that the one with the Spanish accent?

And he goes, yeah. And he says, she said, oh, I can live. She didn't say, I can live with that. She said, I can live. She literally thought I could have killed her. Oh, my goodness. can leave she literally thought i could have killed her oh my goodness it's amazing how disney has propagated this idea of the evil stepmother is so like it is so like embedded in you know our culture like right stepmom thank you bad rap so i say we could do a whole podcast on like how

disney is you know don't get me started in some in some places star wars is pretty, you know, don't get me started. In some places, Star Wars is pretty cool, you know, but... Star Wars is going to be great. Yeah. Yeah, it's changing, but it's true. It's like you, it's like what is being, this is... Well, the fairy tale. Well, this is being, this is a really important issue, and this goes back to, you know, Claudia was speaking to me on her podcast about

the imbalance in spiritual teachers, predominantly men. I'm sure there are some women teachers that are imbalanced. I have not met any in my entire life. You haven't either. However, always imbalance in men. But we have to start to look as a collective on how we're objectifying women and how early it starts off, that it's implanted in the children at such a little age that any woman, any peripheral woman in the community is evil and going to kill you or poison you. Like, who came up with those to begin with? And the other thing is that as a woman, you need someone

to rescue you. Like, that is the whole paradigm. And it's set up at a very, very, very young age. And this is very, this is violent against women, as a matter of fact, and we all play into it, because we've all been raised in this humanity paradigm. So you know, we've all as women, we've been the seductress, and we've played the sort of helpless, you know, you know, yeah, I need some some help. And as the male, you know, you guys have been taught, oh, you know, I have to be the protector, I have to sweep in and make it all better. And when we look at this spiritually, the energy, the same thing, it's like a victim victimizer, you know, program. So a rescuer is the same energy as a rapist, if you really look at it. And I know that sounds really drastic, but every being is an emanation of God and comes

in with a divine blueprint, with enough energy to sustain itself and even fulfill itself. So the very idea that something would be lacking and you would have to, you know, get that from another source, it's not divine. It's not in divine alignment. But, I mean, you would have to say that there are occasions when rescue is necessary. You know, it's like it's not like, I mean, you have to qualify that a little bit, I think. I'm just saying that. There are scenarios where somebody needs to be rescued and rescuing them is appropriate. But do men need to be rescued?

I'm not saying categorically, but if like... Every day, I probably... No, I know. But I mean, I'm talking about... I'm not saying that as human beings, we don't need each other and we don't interact with each other. But what I'm saying is that as divine beings,

we are fully sovereign in our own right. Each being comes in with enough energy to fulfill itself. And this paradigm that's being implanted in humanity at such an early age, it's not in balance. And I think we're changing it. I think there are many people who are like you, like you guys, that show that there is the possibility of a happy, balanced relationship between men and women.

One thing we get in Ask Altucher, people tell us, they tell me, I don't know what a healthy relationship sounds like. And so I had no idea that's what we were doing. But we turn out to be a healthy relationship. And so it's good that, you know, to have examples of, yes, it can work out even if there's the stepmother. And yes, even if the stepfather comes in and two other children come into the mix, it can work out as long as we own that divine energy and we access it. You know, I think it's an interesting thing, though. You mentioned it's the same energy, the rescuer and the rapist.

And I agree, like, theoretically, but at the same time, because we are all grown up in this mythology, it's hard to pull away from that. Like, if the man is not the rescuer, there might just be, like, built in less attraction from the woman. Not in every case case but in some cases because we we just grow up that way from the age of like four on absolutely i mean i agree with you and that's what i'm saying it exists in both women and men it's not like oh the men have to stop doing it it's like we've been implanted with this imbalance and we believe this illusion like within ourselves but one of the key things with rich being that he was working a program, one of the main things that was really powerful about him in this state coming through his addiction and having gone through all of that spiritual work, he was not rescuing me. He would say, I don't know. I

don't know the answer to that. And I can see that you're suffering, but I can't help you with that. But I'll stand here next to you, but I can't fix it for you. I love that. I love that because it's so necessary. There are so many words in 12-step programs, and I'm not, like, advocating for them. I'm just saying I've been through them, and they teach you so many little things that have been passed through centuries.

Like, you know, like I don't know everything. And for when James just listens to me and doesn't try to solve my problem, just lets me express that I am angry or whatever, is so helpful, because I don't need a solution sometimes. Sometimes I just need to say, look, this is, this sucks. Right. I mean, a couple observations with that. I mean, first of all, it's the great myth that every guy carries around that, you know, when the woman has the problem, the guy just inherently wants to fix it. When in truth, it's usually like what you just said, where you just want to be heard and you want somebody to say, I'm here and I hear you and I support you.

Not necessarily to solve the problem for you. See, that's the most romantic thing a guy can say to a woman. But it makes a guy feel helpless because a guy, because our masculinity is tied up in this idea of problem solving, you know, and it's an identity thing. But it's also, I think, but hold on a second. So, you know, the idea of saying, I don't know, conjures up this sense of vulnerability, idea of saying, I don't know, conjures up this sense of vulnerability, right? Like, and it's scary, especially for men to be vulnerable, right? But, but when you kind of get comfortable with that, there's great power in that. And I think that is, you know, one of the main reasons why James's writing is so powerful, because you're not afraid to be vulnerable. And you're very

transparent about your mishaps and your foibles. And you have such a, you know, a to make it comedic and to make it emotionally accessible for people that they can tap in and they can say, I relate to that because I see myself in that. But getting to that place, right? Like, how did you arrive at that place where you got comfortable with being that person? Well, I think a lot of it had to do with uh you know just in terms of the writing everybody has you know as you were saying yesterday in your talk everybody has their hardship story you know we all have been through everything and we've all been through things that were so ashamed about will never reveal and at the same time there is some level that will reveal that people are going to

be like shocked. Oh my gosh, I can't believe he or she is saying that. But that reminds me of the 10 times I've been through that exact thing that I would never tell anybody. So I write some of these articles and people will, you know, good friends of mine will start tweeting or whatever, too much information. And then privately they'll email it to me and say, oh, yeah, that happened to me. And this happened to me. And don't tell anybody. Don't tell it on a podcast. And so, but yeah, I think a lot of people, you know, I think men and to some extent everybody,

but everybody needs to be like this perfect success. and to some extent everybody, but everybody needs to be like this perfect success. And I think being comfortable with where you are right now on the path, on the journey to wherever you're going to be, which could mean saying I don't know is part of that path. So you have to not know to start the path because we come out of like the age of 21 like we got we just got our head filled with all sorts of bullshit for like 18 years and then we're supposed to have this purpose

in life you know i just got an email today uh i'm 18 it was it was from someone in india so he was very polite i'm 18 sir and i'm very depressed because I don't know what my special purpose is in life. And I'm like, you're 18, just write me again in 10 years, and we'll I'll remember this email, don't worry, and we'll talk about it.

You send him my meditation, get him on that. The idea that we're supposed to know what we're supposed to do with our lives by that age. Or by any age. Like where I'm 47, I have no idea what I'm doing at age 48. So I'm going to be an ultra marathon runner. No, but you were saying earlier about this is something that I think is very, very powerful. And that's doing what's right in front of you, right? That's a very present, conscious way of being, you know, and so, you know, any act, any activity, anything can be a spiritual practice.

And what better way to bring you to the now moment than to do what is right in front of you. So I've had this experience when we've gone through different kinds of hardships or the road has been maybe a little bit more rocky. And when you really start looking, you go, okay, well, what do I have right in front of me? And when you really stop and you look, you'll be shocked at how many resources you have right in front of you or things to do. That's a great point. Like look at what's right in front of you and then take like one action, you know, because then you're doing an action. You're not just in your mind thinking,

oh my god, bad things are happening. You have, you've analyzed what's in front of you, and you're taking one action doing something with what's in front of you. Now, stillness and silence and meditation is good, too, but often we're so much in our head, there needs to be an expression of that to move forward problems or whatever. Yeah. And one thing I wanted to say to Rich's point about men, we are wired to think that we need to find a solution. However, and I can't speak for every woman, but when a man becomes vulnerable, there's nothing sexier. It's like the sky breaks and thunders and like,

oh my God, who is this guy? So for any guy listening. Yeah, it's true. It's true. It's like, he said, I don't know. But it's paradoxical because you want men to be strong too, right?

You want it both ways. And that's very confusing. No, soft is strong. Being vulnerable is very strong. That's like, what's braver than being vulnerable in front of a woman? Well, look at your relationship. So you were 40 and on the staircase

with the potential heart attack and you had to be the rescuer in some sense with the diet and change of lifestyle. And of course, he had to make the decision. But I think you were very much a rescuer. But actually, no. So I have to share with you guys the inside scoop to the story. We promise we won't tell. Don't tell anyone.

OK, it's just between us here on this table. No, we'll see. Okay, so I had kind of been caught in that paradigm. I had been, you know, Rich was eating junk food. He was dense. He was struggling. You know, he was still, he was not using, not drinking, but his alcoholism was, you know, gripping him at different times, you know,

the energy of it. And he was having a hard time, you know, struggling. And I had healed myself of a golf ball sized cyst in my neck through the use of Ayurvedic herbs and a plant based diet. So I had demonstrated my ability to connect with food in a very healing way. And I kept sort of reaching my hand out to him like, honey, here, just take my hand. And, you know, I'm going to help you. And the more I reached for him, the more paralyzed he became. And I couldn't figure it out. And why do you think that was? Well, well, because who, you know, who wants to be told what to do? Right. You know,

like I didn't, you know, it's sort of like she's coming at me, do this, do that. You know, all I hear is like, you know, I'm doing it wrong. And like, so I think it brings up a lot of, you know, baggage about, you know, how I grew up and parental stuff and all of that. So it immediately throws a wall up and I like resist. So it was my natural inclination to like, shut the door. Like when that, like when somebody is trying to tell me I have to change these habits, like, you know, at the time I'm thinking, look, I already gave up drugs and alcohol. Like, just leave me alone. Like, what do you want from me? You know what I mean?

Like, let me enjoy at least this aspect of my life. Pizza and chips. Yeah, let me enjoy my junk, my, my, yeah. Potato chips are vegetarian. Yeah. So, and, and the thing on my, on my end, so I had, you know, many, many, many friends that were all telling me just how right I was. Because I was clearly living the cleaner life, right?

I clearly had a better grip on things, right? So I tried many things over really almost a seven-year period. I begged him. I reasoned with him. I threatened him. Did you ever get, though though disgusted to the point where I can't do this anymore? He's never going to listen to me. I'd rather be with a guy who's going to at least have this lifestyle that I have. Well, I would say that, yeah, I, I mean,

I wouldn't say disgusted that I wouldn't use that word, but I would say that, yeah, I came to a point in the road where I was like, okay, I need to look at this relationship and is, am I going to stay with this man? Like it came to that. And we broke up for like a 24 hour period. Like he left and, you know, went away and then came back with a really awesome mixtape. High school. So good. So, no.

So, but getting back. So I was clear. I mean, listen, Rich is my third marriage. So I was married twice. So you could call me a relationship expert. I am speaking, people. And my first relationship, I was actually a battered woman. So that's a whole nother thing.

My second relationship was a fairy tale marriage, exactly what I'm talking about, but produced two beautiful children, my older boys, and it was a big love affair of my life for 10 years. Then I met Rich after that. So now Rich and I have been together 15 years. So I've got some road behind me. And I'm looking at all this, and I'm clear that I'm not leaving Rich, that we are not breaking up, or at least that's not what I want. And I'm hoping that, you know, that he doesn't want that either. So I've had the blessing of working with an Indian master. I've, I'm, you know, I'm a spiritual seeker. I've had, you know, very many different kinds of teachers hosted at our house. And, you know, I've gone to countless retreats and sweat lodges and meditations and journeys and all kinds of stuff. And this one

particular Indian master, he proposed to me the idea of divine love. So he said, divine love is simply like the sun. It loves you simply for your essence, how you are right now sitting there before any achievements earned or any, before you've done anything, just the very, the very fact you exist at all, it loves you unconditionally. So, and then he was talking about human love and how human love is a business arrangement. So you meet somebody, you project the image, the guy on the vision board onto you. And then later, after you discover that, you know, that who you're married to is not the illusion of your image that you projected onto that person anyway, then you get angry and disillusioned with them. And so for some reason,

I guess I had beaten my head against the wall so long for a good seven years. It took me a while. Did not get this that soon. And it was tricky because I thought my reasoning was so altruistic, you know, it was for such a good reason. And then I realized that he was a divine being of God, just as I was, and I needed to release him to his life. I needed to stop to need him to self-realize this lifetime or experience life the way I was going to experience it. So I released him, and I really did release him in unconditional love and compassion. And it was when I let him and I really did release him in unconditional love and compassion. And it was when I let him go that his transformation began. Wow. Yeah. So I think what happened in that is

that, you know, I could feel it was almost like a vacuum of energy. Like it was, there was a shift where it was very palpable. I'm like, oh, I don't feel like, you know, there's nothing coming at me anymore. And so what that does is it flips the mirror, right? So suddenly I'm like, oh, wait, this is on me. You mean like I have to make a decision about how I want to live my life, you know? And that decision is not going to be based upon somebody else's approval or seeking that approval or gaining that approval, right? And so I think that that was something that was like new to me. And I was like, oh, wait, like, I have to take my own inventory here. And that was the beginning of like planting the seed of like, you know, what do I want? And how do I want to live? And is this, you know, the path that I want to take, and taking responsibility for that for the first time,

I think, and that kind of coincided, you know, that was happening shortly before the staircase thing. So it's like, had Julie not sort of consciously made that decision at that time, I don't know that the whole staircase kind of narrative would have transpired, you know, in the way that it did. So, and just to be clear what that narrative was for anybody who doesn't know your story, you practically, like, you were walking up a staircase and you were so out of breath and your chest was pounding and you were overweight and you were basically you were having lots of problems you couldn't make it up the staircase and then from there you said you decided you had to make a change in your life and as at that point did you

say okay I need to start having this plant? I know you didn't start running then. You started the plant lifestyle first. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't, it was certainly not an overnight thing. And the narrative kind of sort of compacts it to make it seem like it all happened overnight. And it definitely was not that. But yeah, I had this moment where I was like, okay, I need to change. And I didn't know how to or what the first step was going to be. And Julie was my resource. So, you know, that that's when for the first time I did turn to her and I said, you know, will you help me like I'm ready now to like make some of these changes. And ironically, she was like, she kind of blew me off. After all of this, you know, it was this really

interesting thing. And it just shows that I was truly in a kind of in a spiritual vacuum in a way. I really was completely unattached to what he decided to do. I was completely free of it. So he asked me, you know, he's like, babe, I want to do that cleanse, you know, could you get and I said, in the moment, I said, Yes, I will get this for you. And then my body didn't move. And what I mean to say is the entire concept left my consciousness. And I didn't even think about it again until he mentioned it a second time. And then I said, he said, are you getting me the herbs? I said, yes. But then the same thing happened. It left my consciousness. And then he asked me again. And I mean, by like the fifth time, he was so pissed at me.

Where usually I would have run out and I would have had him already and everything. So I was laughing at myself that this that it kept leaving me. So I got the herbs and then, you know, neither one of us had thought that he was going to have to stop drinking coffee. And he was drinking like venti Starbucks with three ad shots like twice a day. And you don't drink coffee anymore anymore? Rarely. Rarely. Once in a while. Only once. Yeah, once in a while. And you don't drink coffee anymore anymore? Rarely. Rarely. Once in a while.

Only once. Yeah, once in a while. Not too much. So anyway, so the first day that he was detoxing, he was just curled up in a ball sweating like he was coming off heroin. It was so extreme. And even then I had no attachment. I wasn't like, oh, is he going to do this a day or a week?

I was just like, wow, look at him. I caught him in the moment. But the thing that I want just like, wow, look at him. I caught him in the moment. But the thing that I want to say, though, here, and this is, again, like linking to the meditation. Okay, so later what transpires, Rich became plant-based. Then he went vegan. His story got picked up by CNN. He started doing these Ultraman races, which are double Ironman races.

And he started doing and living the life that he wanted, that his heart wanted for him as a child. This is rich as a child. He loves athletics. He was a fan of all kinds of athletes. And this is really what he wanted to be doing. And becoming an Ultraman or going back to athletics at that stage of his life was nowhere on his vision board, his collage, or his bucket list, or his journal. And what I want to say is that when we connect with this divine mind through meditation, our minds are only capable of so much imagining for ourselves. We can't see the picture from where we sit. And when you can let go and you can really lay in the arms of this force, for me, she's divine mother, but she could be, it could be anything,

the force, the consciousness, whatever that is. When you really can release and give yourself over to it, it will paint your life mandala far beyond anything your human could ever have imagined. And that's the deep beauty of our experience. The one thing I want to say, and correct me, you guys, if I'm wrong, but in the same way that I think for a woman, the most amazing thing a man can do is say, I don't know, tell me, you talk to

me. It's like really seductive. I think for a man to tell them, I really like what you're doing, I appreciate you and I support you, no matter what you want to do, I'm here for you. And never tell them they're doing anything wrong. Because it seems to me men are very fragile in that sense. So if they're told you're doing it wrong they're gonna be they're gonna shut off immediately am i wrong or am i striking a chord like is well are you saying i do that wrong i'm saying i'm just kidding that was a joke you know but it does remind me though that of that of our book, The Power of No. She basically, in her own way, didn't say no, but made him ask again several times.

So she was supportive, but you were sort of not quite saying yes, but kind of not quite saying no either. But that is the power of no, where you say it a couple of times, and then it sort of throws it back at them. Do I really want this? And then they push for it. Then it's okay. But you know, and I never spoke about this, and it's a secret, but I had an experience similar to Julie, not with a spiritual master, but with the therapies.

Because James and I, when we have issues with the children, and we really have no idea what to do, which is sometimes, we visit a very wise therapist anyways. And this guy, first of all, he pointed out I wasn't listening to what he was saying. He says to me, do you hear what he said? And I'm like, yeah. And he says, what did he say? And I couldn't believe that after listening what I said, I actually had not heard him. And then he says, what did he say? And I couldn't believe that after listening what I said, I actually had not heard him. And then he said, you're telling him everything he's doing is wrong. And I'm like, oh, my God. I've been telling him everything I've been saying has been pointing out, look at how this is not going well. Look at that.

That is not good. And that therapist turned me around around and I stopped doing that. So now I even wrote a post, should I die for the next wife of James? You should know, always tell him he's doing the right thing. Well, I think to your point, you know, one thing that Julie demonstrated during this kind of transition period and everything that followed was a tremendous level of faith in my journey and being an incredible, like, unflappable support system for me because I was going way out on a limb and I was doing crazy stuff that nobody in their right mind at age 42 and 43 would really logically entertain.

Like it didn't make sense, in the in the kind of narrative structure of how we're supposed to be living our lives you know like i'm a lawyer and i have kids and here's what i do and this is how i define myself and i was questioning those and i was trying different things and and these things were not related to earning a living necessarily in fact they were quite often at odds with that and And it would have been very normal or expected for Julie to say, look, you got to quit this nonsense. Like, what are you doing? Like, we got kids and you got to stop messing about and like, where's the bottom line? And let's sit down and we got to, you know, you need to like correct your ship right now. But she didn't do that. She was very cognizant that I

was grappling with some things that were important to me that perhaps she might not have understood necessarily, but she intuitively knew were things that I needed to work through for myself. And so she was always like, you need to go do this. Like, and I would have moments of doubt where my own faith would be questioned. And I was like, why am I doing this? I shouldn't be doing that. I need to go back to, you know, living that, that, that narrative, you know, that everyone else is doing. And she was like, no, you need to go out and do this. I shouldn't be doing that. I need to go back to, you know, living that, that, that narrative, you know, that everyone else is doing. And, and she was like, no, you need to go out and do this. Don't worry. We'll, you know, we'll solve all these other problems. These are just things or whatever, but like, you need to, you need to walk, you need to continue to walk this path. And I

think having that support system is kind of speaking to what you were, the issue that you were raising of like having her have that confidence in me is what allowed it all to kind of blossom. You know, let me ask you this because, you know, Julie was mentioning how you went back to what you loved as a child. It's almost like you brought your childhood dreams to life. And I find that the same thing has happened to me and to us. And whenever I veer from that, I'm shut down, like really hard, really fast.

Like if I, for instance, say, you know, I could make 50 times the money if I just do the Silicon Valley thing again or whatever that would be the right thing to do but if I even like start to go in that direction I'm like shut down super fast as opposed to just doing what I'm doing which continues to grow and grow and grow so I wonder if you had that oh sorry go ahead. I'm sorry but it's true there are choose yourself meetups now all over the world and that's because when you focus on what you love,

and I have to remind you because sometimes you even tell me, why am I not going to Silicon Valley? And I'm like, because you're doing what you love. Yeah, it's true. And so I'm just wondering if you guys noticed the same thing. Well, I mean, I would say one key thing, and I think people that don't know us, they assume that we live

this life of luxury and that's how this came about. But in fact, we were on the verge of being completely annihilated financially, and we call it a dismantling. And this was a long, it was a very long period. It was a seven-year period with a year on each end. So it was nine years of transformation that has brought us to this point. But what I would say is something that I experienced viscerally that I couldn't really explain to anybody. And if anybody's listening, and they're going through this, they're going to know exactly

what I'm talking about. Because if you're being dismantled, you know what it feels like it is like the energy is completely shut off to you in those older ways. So you could send out a thousand resumes to Silicon Valley and you would never connect. It would never. Or if you did manage to connect, you would be in a lawsuit or something very, very problematic. By the way, yes and yes. Yes and yes. Did I tell you I'm psychic also? That's also a byproduct of meditation.

I didn't say not resumes, but just the lawsuit is. Yeah. So the thing is, is, and I got that message, you know, when early on, when this whole thing began, it was actually coincided with the birth of our fourth daughter, Jaya. But I was doing interior design and I was working, you know, I was doing, you know, boffy kitchens and buildings and I was, you know, all in it. And I had a certain client.

And I literally got the message in meditation. It was a foreboding warning. You must stop now, immediately. And if you do not, you will pay deep karmic consequences. It was like, it felt like death to me. Rich had to wrap that job up for me. I was unable to interact with that energy anymore in a business sense. And the message to me was, you can no longer work for money.

You know, the same thing has happened with us, which is that I would say in the past three years, all of my traditional business relationships have ended, like 100% of them. So now it's just kind of the writing and the things that have been coming out of that, like podcasting and other things, these meetups that Claudia referred to. And then all of our stuff has kind of worked together. But all of my business relationships, I had to stop. I couldn't. And you were pointing it out more than I was pointing out. You would say you have to stay away from that guy because it was just it was just bad for me. And I would think, no, no, he he they need me or they're going to go bankrupt or whatever. I was filling myself with this like nonsense. And yeah, that's

another thing. When when when your woman is going to that's another thing when when when your woman when your woman says stay away from that guy you may want to trust it we have an instinct i don't know what it is but um in every case i i can feel i can feel energies uh you know we women are different what can you do you're totally mental and you're going to go into that side of the brain, and you're going to analyze it, and we go from the gut immediately. I didn't, thank God, because I'm afraid of it. But we bear children, so we have a tremendous connection to the body biologically. So we feel it in the gut immediately, especially if we're balanced.

You know, I'm not saying every man or every woman, obviously. That's so interesting. Yeah, I think guys need to get hit over the head with it a few times before we get it, at least in my experience. But I think that's so interesting, you know, because I see you and I'm, you know, like Julie was talking about projecting on other people. Like, so if I was projecting my sense of who you are onto you, it's like somebody who has talents in many arenas. And I look at, I see all the writing and the blogs and all the crazy numbers of podcasts that you're doing.

And also like, you know, being involved in all these different businesses. And I'm like, how does he even like, like, how does that work? Like on a day-to-day basis? Like, how do you have the time to do that? Like, I'm trying to just grapple with it. And it's so interesting to hear you talk about how you, you know, you're pulling your energy back and focusing on the one thing. I mean, it's like, for me, I see your writing as being really the tip of the spear of what you're doing. I mean, you have such a touch and such a gift and a unique voice with that that, you know, I'm glad to hear that that's where your energy is getting focused now.

Because anybody can go and work at a Silicon Valley, whatever, you know, be a venture capitalist. There's plenty of people that could do that. But your voice is your voice, and nobody else has that. No, thanks. I appreciate that. And the thing is, what turned out was the less involved I was in business activities, the better those businesses would do anyway. So I'm just good doing what I do, like what I wanted to do as a child.

So when I was in fifth grade, I would take down, I would bring my notebook and I would write like either stories or this girl likes this guy and this guy likes this girl. And like everybody wanted to get into my notebook to know like what I was thinking about, who was going after who. And so now I'm able to actually do that. And the teacher had to remove the book from you. Right, I wasn't allowed to. It was such a bestseller that it had to be confiscated from the school. It was banned.

But your first book was banned. I was censored by the first amendment. your first book was banned. I was censored. I mean, I think the spiritual field of where we've entered is when you are doing what you love and you're in alignment with your heart, then the manifestation of energy is abundant

and it's coming in many different ways. However, I think that as spiritual beings, we are having our needs met in the moment. You know, so I think that there spiritual beings, we are having our needs met in the moment, you know. So I think that there's not as much focus as like saving nuts up for, you know, some future timeline. Like I always say, like, so does Buddha have a, you know, have a, you know, a savings account or, you know, Jesus have a 401k just in case. Or, you know, it's like you, you know, you're living in tune with consciousness at such a level. So it's not that we won't be playing with, we'll be playing with expansive amounts of energy. And some of those energy forms will be in the form of monies.

And the beautiful thing is having been so beautifully alchemized or beat up by life, you know, and sort of washed around and tumbled a lot. We're in a very clean place, a very clear place. So when we do play with that kind of energy, we have the ability to share it with others and change other people's lives. And I don't mean by taking up like a big charity perspective, because, you know, some forms of charity are the same energy as like an actress it's just another ego trip i'm talking about just being really vulnerable open and in service really but i told the crowd last night we had a book release party at um powerhouse arena

in brooklyn and you know the last thing i said is i said you know the reason that we wrote the plant power way and the reason that we're plant-based advocates is that it's the first step to start to release the density that allows you to feel yourself. And we believe and we know that we're all divine emanations of God, the force, the consciousness. And so we need everybody to be who they are, their individual blueprint. to be who they are, their individual blueprint. And, you know, that's really, that's really what we've tapped into what you guys have tapped into what we've tapped into definitely not an easy journey and not for the weary. Well, and there is a lot of scientific evidence that, you know, when you explore these things, whether it's through writing, or meditation, or therapy, or these groups or whatever, that you do have

a greater sense of well-being, like feelings of freedom, feelings of competence, feelings of better relationships. These naturally start to happen, as opposed to me having to spend an hour talking to some entrepreneur who's not doing the right things and trying to convince them and whatever. No one's happy at the end of that trying to convince them and whatever. No one's happy at the end of that. And that's an hour of life wasted. So it's very important for that moment. The moments add up. So it's important for each moment to be as good as possible. So where are you taking this ship? What's next? What's on the horizon? You just continue doing

what you're doing and writing books and blogging and podcasting? Or what's on the collage, the vision board? Well, I think we don't know. We know that today, for instance, doing this podcast is the right thing to do. Amazing. I did a Q&A earlier. I wrote a post earlier. She did stuff earlier. I'm excited. I'm having CEO of Twitter. She ran for CEO&A earlier. I wrote a post earlier. She did stuff earlier.

I'm excited. I'm being CEO of Twitter. She ran for CEO of Twitter earlier. This is happening, Claudia. So we don't know at all what happened. I mean, life's going to change when you become CEO of Twitter. You might have to move. We're going to move to Silicon Valley anyway because of her.

But one thing we've known is that ever since we've started living this lifestyle, every six months has been completely unpredictable. Like, we can't predict at all, like, two, three months in the future. No, like, I'll tell you, you know, I'm a yogi. And so I used to be proud of saying, and I had a lot of ego into this, I'm a vegetarian, which means I'm so much better than anyone else, right? I had that thing going for me for a while. And then I got somehow Lyme disease or something like that. They gave me a lot of antibiotics. And to get out of that, I needed to visit a Chinese medicine practitioner who actually got me out of the antibiotics. And he told me that I needed to eat meat. So I started to eat meat again, much against my shamed yoga ego self, right?

And it's been a couple of years now and I've recovered very well. And at the right time, i.e. five weeks ago or six weeks ago, I come across James telling me, I'm interviewing Rich, I'm thinking, my God, yoga podcast, Julie. And then, you know, I get Julie,

we get the preview of the book and we have in black and white and in color, which is amazing. me I'm interviewing Rich I'm thinking my god yoga podcast Julie and then you know I get Julie I get we get the preview of the book and we have in black and white and in color which is amazing and um and and I I have been thinking that the vegetarianism you don't choose with the mind to be a vegetarian or a plant-based person it kind of happens know, because the body cannot adapt right away. And through that, you guys are changing me. Like, ever since I started eating like this, now I go to the bathroom very easy, and I seem to be okay without no meat so far. So I don't have any more ego about it because it can change any minute. I don't know.

But for now, it's fine. It's great. And what about you guys in terms of, like, you just published this book. You're thinking of doing a podcast. You're continuing to do the ultra iron Superman, you know, all the marathons. Where does this take you? Yeah, I mean, it's a similar answer, I think. It's shifting and it's changing.

And, you know, I don't know what we're going to do. We're very much in the moment. Like I do know one thing, which is that I love doing the podcast and, and that's really been an incredible, like not just tool, but like benefit, like it's enriched our lives in so many ways. It's just amazing, you know? And so I know that I will continue to do that because it's, I mean, it's just, when do you get an opportunity?

Like we're sitting down, we're having this amazing conversation, you know, it's like this doesn't happen in normal life, right? It's like, it's such a cool thing. And then to be able to share that with other people, it's just incredible. So people get a lot of value out of it. Like they, you know, there's listeners. So, I mean, it was interesting for me to switch from, okay, I'm going to talk for an hour with this entrepreneur that I don't really want to talk to. And that's going to be my day as opposed to me calling up whoever I want in the

world. It's the greatest scam in the world. I could call anybody. I've talked to Rich Roll. I've talked to Johnny Robbins, Mark Cuban, Wayne Dyer, Julie Piat. It's really a great thing. I highly recommend it for everybody. Yeah, it's amazing. I know that. I want to continue to grow that and invest in that. I'm trying to get it to... I've played around with getting to two episodes a week, and it's a lot of work.

That's hard. It's a lot of work. I've done three. You're doing five Ask Altruism. How do you do this? Those are a little easier because most of that is just she and I talking. He basically says, come over, and I jump, and I'm ready, and we do them. And you just boom.

But doing the interview shows where you have to do all the preparation, for a while I was doing three a week, and that was just too much because I make sure I read every book of the person i make sure i see all the other interviewer interviews so i don't ask like the same things they've been asked a million times uh or at least i asked them in a different way so it was really hard so now i've scaled that back to to one a week because what we were talking about julie and i were talking about right before the podcast started is that there really is not a good business model for podcasting.

No. It really is a childhood fantasy. Yeah, yeah. Like, you shouldn't do it if you're trying to make money. Like, it's not about that. You know, it's like, it's crazy in terms of like a business model, but it's benefited our lives. I mean, it's an intangible, you know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly. It's a beautiful thing. So, yeah, I encourage anybody who wants to do it, but understand, understand like it is a lot, you know, it's a lot of work. Yeah, but I think I actually, I mean, I actually think it is, it is a very powerful business model. It's just a new business model. It's a, it's a new, it's the new frontier really, because I mean, we know from the book signing last night, I mean, how many people are listening to the podcast. And the other thing that's so beautiful about it is that they all feel like there are close intimate friends, which is how do you connect with somebody like that?

So your message becomes abundant. And that could translate to other types of abundance. Exactly. I mean, that's everybody who came out and pre-ordered the book for us and everybody who showed up for us. And also like, you know, I'm in the, you know, in the, out in the country in Ireland and I get emailed from, emailed from a podcast fan in Cork, and they come and pick us up and take us out to their farm and make us a plant-based breakfast. And it's crazy how it reaches so far. So you don't know who you're affecting. And so I would say that it's a spiritual mecca model, business model,

because of the activation that's going on. Particularly because you have a message, and I feel we have not necessarily a message, but this is how we live our lives. People come up to me and say, oh, I love your podcast. They don't even know I have a blog, which is really where like my home is, is the, is all my posts and writing, but a lot of people just know me from the podcast, which is really pleasurable. I never would have met that audience. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. Um, so, uh, the podcast definitely will continue. And then beyond that, like writing books and, you know, traveling around public speaking

retreats eventually, like, I don't know. Like, it's not like I've got this, we have this scripted business plan. I mean, in terms of like the crazy races and all of that, like that's become less important. You know what I mean? It's like, how fast can I ride my bike? You know, it's like, is that really, how is that helping people? You know what I mean? So the motivation has shifted into how can I be more of service to other people and how can I carry this healthy message and help people transform their lives? And I think where, you know, your message and our message overlap is in trying to help people kind of access their their personal power to live more authentically, you know, like after reading your book and then when we were working on our

cookbook, like we were going to self publish our cookbook. And I almost felt like I betrayed you when you last, the last minute we decided to go with a publisher because there's, you know, like it's, it is such a powerful thing. And, and that's a difficult book. You know what I mean? You can't self publish your book because your book is packaged. Right. Well, right, right, right. I mean, we had created that all in-house. Like, as you see it. Like, so, you know, we had, like, a model kind of set up to do it that way. And we could talk more about that later.

But the idea of sort of taking more control over your lives and being more mindful about those decisions and opening up people's eyes that, you know, we don't have to live, you know, it's like, we're the first generation that's kind of breaking out of this, you know, kind of madman idea of like what a career is and should be. And as you see the millennials, the way that they're kind of perceiving the world and what a career, you know, could and should be is completely different from from our generation. And it's kind of exciting to be kind of, you know, part on the cusp of those two worlds. And I actually do know a couple things that I'm working on my book, my first book. So I wrote 500 pages last year, which is obviously two books. But anyway, so I am now working on a proposal.

It's for my memoir. So it's sort of like my story of the story. So I'm very excited. And, you know, of course, it will be all about the spiritual journey and the spiritual lens, you know, that was, you know, such as it really the core part of this whole thing. I always say we're spiritual beings in a human experience, not the not the reverse. And then the other thing that's exciting for me is I am I am working on the next cookbooks already. So I have a kitchen lab. And so once a week I'm working with my sous chef and we're working on gluten-free baked stuff

and then also aged cheeses and these kind of things. So I am, that's continuing. So there's some momentum going there. People see that on Instagram. And then the kind of really sweet thing is that I started playing sitar about four months ago. And I know that I'm going to be channeling something unique via that medium. And I've also started to do some voice development in sort of another way. Like I'm singing extremely high,

which is something that I've never done before. So I keep all those creative channels going. So those are things that I do every day, but I don't know what they're going to give me. I'm waiting for them to give me the work in meditation. The good thing about that is different parts of your brain light up. So whether you're singing or playing the sitar or writing, they all interact with each other.

So they bring out different creativity. So about a year and a half ago, I had to give a talk that I was very nervous about. And we were talking earlier about 70s TV shows. The way i prepared to give this talk is i sang over and over again saying and i'm not a singer at all the theme songs to chico and the man and welcome back hotter that's awesome my theme songs for of the decade and i don't know why i picked those two songs but i would just sing them over and over again and like practice them and that's how i prepared for this talk, which was like my best talk ever. So cool. What is the logic behind that? Like, what is the idea

that that that that doing that what gets you in kind of like a childlike state? Or what? How does that alleviate the tension? It allowed me it allowed me to not just think about, okay, I have to say this, this, this, it allowed my brain to kind of light up in areas that maybe had never lit up before. Like I had never sang anything before. And so that, I don't know what happens, but that then, electricity is sent all over the brain and that feeds the area where I had to speak. So when I actually had to speak and I improv a lot when I speak, it was just part of that. Like now I'm bringing that

singing voice in somehow when I'm speaking. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back. That was a great song. But that's so cool. You know, it's so cool. And as a sort of multi-dimensional, you know, creative, you know, being, I've been told my whole life by people, you know, creative, you know, being, uh, I've been told my whole life by people, you know, well, why don't you just focus on one thing or how can you do that? Or what do you mean? Like, and I've told, you know, my, my good friends that have stuck with me through the years that if you don't, if I'm not completely unrecognizable every seven years, then I'm not living. So my, my life is very, is really about pushing the envelope.

That's, that's sort of, you know, what keeps me alive. So for me, it's just the same energy, creative energy is spiritual energy is sexual energy. It's all the same. It's all spiritual energy. So I can channel that in whatever way I never thought or believe that I had to have a training or a technique to do something. So, you know, I've, I've painted, I've written scripts, I write songs, I sing, I cook, like, it's all creative energy. And, you know, it's not, it's not perfect, or by anybody's standards, or it's not anything, but mine, you know what I mean? Like Like it doesn't need to be judged against anything. It's just mine.

That's all it is. It's no better or worse than anybody else. You know, it's just mine. Can I make a request for your book on cooking, which you'll do together? Here's the thing. We haven't found bread that is healthy for James and me and we crave it and we need it and we miss it.

Please. Yes, that's definitely what I'm working on right now. Thank you. So, yeah, so there's this whole thing. You know, how are we on time? Do you have to go? Do we have? No.

Okay, good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I just want to check. So, okay, so the boys and I have been studying with this amazing realized being named Vidya Dishananda. His title is actually His Holiness Vidya Dishananda. So he's from a very, very monastic, pure order of monks in the high Himalayas. And he has over 50,000 hours of meditation experience in the high caves with just a cloth in sub-freezing temperatures. They actually drop their heartbeats and they go out of their bodies and merge with the cosmos. And then they come back

in and they compare notes. So the monks, you know, there's like sort of a class and they all write, you know, well, this is what I saw and this was what I experienced. And that's how the senior monks know if they pass the test, like if they really got there. So anyway, we have the big blessing that he happens to be living in Santa Barbara. So we go up and meditate with him, and I've done some retreats with him. And Rich and I hosted him at our home. And he is a medical expert, you know, master, as well as a musical master. And he sees a tremendous problem with the wheat and gluten issues. And so what he was teaching us is that we need to make breads

with the ancient grains like millet. And so I'm in an exploration with that. Also, there's some a lot of fermentation, like breads that can be fermented. So that is really my that's my biggest sort of inspiration after the book, because you know, baking bread is completely different and also baking cakes. So I was able to achieve a very great chocolate cake that was part of the pre-order bonus recipes. It's a cherry cacao cake. It's actually on the cover of my album, Jai Home. It was my cake art as well.

But yeah, I'm going to be developing all of that because that's the same thing in my family. You know, we're eating out of my book and it's great and the bread is not cutting it. And when you buy gluten-free, most of the time it's not healthy. And it's disgusting. I'm sorry. It doesn't taste good.

So, yeah, so we're working on that, and, you know, it is a whole science and a thing. So, fingers crossed. I hope I succeed. No more Wonder Bread for you, James. Oh, yeah. Julie is coming up with it now. Thank God. I know James wanted to. We forgot to

open it that way, but before we started recording, James said, is Wonder Bread a plant? I don't know. It is vegetarian. It exists in three dimensions. I was going to say actually that Wonder Bread does have one beautiful energetic aspect with it, and that's the name and

the resonance of the name. I guess with an applied intention no a wonder wonder bread yeah you could wonder if it's bread yeah like a like a superpower bread but again like i always say you know you can transform anything with the intention that you put on it so you know thank you julie I have a question about what you said earlier, how every seven years, if you're not unrecognizable again, that you're doing the wrong thing. And I wanted to ask, like, both of you guys are recognizable by what you're doing now. Like, you with the ultramarathons, do you feel, like, super identified with that so that if you were no longer identified with that, it would feel funny to you. You pointed

out with me, with my writing, how you identify with this particular voice that I use in the writing. I do wonder, you ultimately, everybody changes voice. And so every seven years, or every three years, or five years, or

like Louis CK, the comedian changes his act every year. So when do you think, and I've, I've had this conversation even with ice tea. So before we started our podcast, I said to him, if you appeared nowhere for X amount of time,

how much time would it take before nobody talks about you? And he said right away, six months. So it's obviously like everybody thinks about this. So what's your thoughts on this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the idea that you're no longer going to be relevant. Well, first of all, that's a great question. And I don't know if anybody's ever asked me that.

So, you know, thanks for that. I think that it's really important to not be dogmatic about these things. And I think, yeah, it's like, oh, Rich Roll, oh, he's the vegan, he's the ultra-distance triathlete guy, and so these are the monikers that I kind of shoulder. And I'm comfortable with that, and I'm cool with that. But what happens if something changes, and I decide that I want to eat differently,

or I don't want to be an athlete anymore. Like, do I have to continue to, you know, be the guy who, you know, everybody expects me to be? And I think it's important to always be challenging yourself and to not allow yourself to be, you know, limited by those definitions. But it's difficult too. And I think especially as, you know, the audience grows and there's more, you know, people know who you are and there's an expectation. Yeah, there's an people know who you are. And there's an expectation. Yeah, there's an expectation that comes with that. And so we've been traveling a lot, doing a lot of appearances. And every time somebody says, what are you training for?

What's your next race? And the truth is, I'm not training for a race right now. And there are things I'd still like to do athletically. But life is really busy right now. Life is very much in session in a different kind of way. And that way is sort of connecting with people and being of service to them and being kind of a missionary of this idea and this message that we're promulgating. And in so doing, there's just not time to go out on an eight-hour bike ride, nor am I certain that that's appropriate anymore. Maybe I won't compete anymore.

Maybe I will. That door is open. But I don't want to be defined by that idea. Like, I'm almost 50 anyway. So it's like, you know, am I going to be doing this forever? You know what I mean? Like, I want to be able to find a way to continue the work that we're doing, but do it in a way that's sustainable and provides for my family and is, you know, I don't know. I mean, so, so yeah, it's always being challenging those labels,

I think is important if you want to continue to expand. I mean, it'd be easy to stay that guy, like, oh, I can just be the plant. I could just continue to write books about plant-based nutrition and being an athlete. But like, I don't think that that's really, I think that that's really... I think that there is more that can be said in different ways. I'm interested in the growth. I would say that really, how relevant are any of us in terms of the cosmos? Not relevant at all.

I agree theoretically. Right. And you try to live that life. Right. But then it's hard. Like, something inside wants to fight that. Your ego's like, no. Well, yeah.

I mean, maybe. So for me, it's like that's just another. I'm very viscerally aware of how short or fragile this life is and what a blessing it is to be here. And that's one of the reasons why I was able to support Rich in this crazy, seemingly crazy, you know, out on a limb thing that, you know, caused a lot of, it caused our family a lot of financial hardship and a lot of, you know, it was a hard journey. It wasn't an easy journey. a lot of, you know, it was a hard journey. It wasn't an easy journey. But for me, the most,

the whole purpose of life is spiritual transformation. And so you can't, you know, you can't do that if you're hanging on to a bank account or like a security job. So for me, I would say that it's the transformation that's relevant. And so I can't say to what degrees that would be happening. But the whole the evolution has to be going. And so like, I can speak musically, like I know my next musical project is going to be something twisted different. Like I don't I know she's coming in, but I don't know exactly what she looks like yet. But I'm preparing with the the structure to receive her. So I know that's coming. So I would say that I don't really identify with it. I don't like labels around me anyway.

And I've always said that if I woke up tomorrow and if my body told me it needed a piece of meat, I would go find a sacred wild hunted. I'd do a ceremony and I'd eat it as medicine if I needed that. That hasn't happened. I don't expect that to happen. But I don't like to have labels and boxes around me because that's not a yogic way to live. It's not spontaneous or free. But let me ask you, so now, like you were mentioning,

in Ireland, a fan wrote you and you had your book opening party, book release party last night. So now you're getting this other taste of there's people out there that I've been connecting with that and there's a certain magic to that of course and it feels very special and it's it's addictive as well and so what would happen if let's say five years from now um you had none of that um would you feel do you think obviously you can't predict but do you think that would feel bad no I mean, do you think, obviously you can't predict,

but do you think that would feel bad? No, I mean, I don't. And I mean, I can say for myself, I don't personally identify with it. It's sweet and I enjoy the connection and I'm grateful. And as a human being, I enjoy connecting with other people, but I never for one minute believe that it's me or that it has anything to do with this personality. It's simply a reflection of the one force. So it's like my music that I received, I received it in meditation. I wasn't trying to write a song. It just wrote me.

So that's why I sing under the name Srimati because it's my spiritual name. And because I feel like it was given to me from another energy. They don't belong to me. Like if somebody said to me, I hate your music, it means nothing to me because I'm like, yeah, go tell God about it. Like tell God. Like I almost feel like kind of a bystander in a lot of ways, and I think that it's a trap to get in the illusion of thinking that it's personality-based,

because it's not. We only exist here. We only experience this journey the way that it's been laid out, by the grace of God. That's seriously. Not that long ago, Rich and I, we broke down crying in Starbucks. We were actually sobbing, our family on the precipice of complete annihilation,

of losing everything, of realizing that every single decision we had made together as a couple had been wrong. And we were just there on the razor's edge. It could have gone either way. And it went this way. And we're grateful. We are so grateful. But yeah, I think

that alchemical journey, that nine years of being battered by the storm, it provides a maturity and an awareness. And so for that, no one can take that from us, no matter what happens with this illusion, with this, if this explodes or we're not doing this, or even if we're not together or even, you know, whatever's happening, no one can take that awareness because it became a part of us. That's amazing. I wanted to ask you a question because I wonder, and I'm not exactly sure how it's going to tie it up, so I'm just going with the flow of life here. So bear with me.

But you know how there is a voice in the head that keeps telling me, you're not good enough, you're stupid, that's silly. That's how it goes for me. Have any of you been able to quiet that voice for a period longer than five seconds? That voice, I'm so familiar with that voice. I'm very intimately connected to that voice. And that voice has been with me my whole life, you know, like self defeatism and poor self esteem. And, you know, the idea that nothing is ever going to work out, and I don't deserve to have good things. I mean, that is my bedfellow, you know, and so for me, and I think it fuels my alcoholism, it's all very complicated and tricky, but I only get respite from that in moments. For me, it's like it takes relentless, constant work to always be trying to arrest that sense because that's my, that's my default setting, you know,

from as far back as I can remember. Julie doesn't really share that. She can speak to her own personal experience with that. And she helps me kind of navigate that. But really through meditation and through like the active meditation of the running and the swimming and the things that I do, I find relief, you know, and that, and, and that relief is not, is, is, is hard wrought, you know, and it's fleeting. So it, and it never, I don't know that I'll ever overcome it, you know, but it's some, it's, so it's almost like something that I'm living with all the time that I'm, just space um i uh that's not to say that i can't have a busy mind like i have four kids and if i have like stuff that has to happen you know i might have those thoughts but i don't have voices that that that attack me in a negative way i don't

have a negative voice did you ever have had it no i don't think i ever had it I don't have a negative voice. Did you ever have it? No. I don't think I ever had it. I don't think I ever had it. You're like a Martian. She grew up, you know, in the forest of Alaska and her parents were crazy that she would roam free for 24 hours like where

she could freeze. And so you were so connected to nature so early on and I wonder whether... Yeah, well, it was Colorado first. I mean, I had a very, very aware consciousness of being the age I am now when I was born. I've always felt the way I feel right now. Like, there's no difference. And I was waiting around a lot when I was a kid for my childhood to be over so that I could go do what I needed to do. So, you know, it was, yeah, I just, I've just, I've never been attacked by negativity like that. That's not to say that, that I don't have a pain body that sometimes get activated or I get threatened or I get afraid or something like that. I do, but there is a consciousness that's beyond it. And, you know, I also had this thing that I'm very,

I'm very compassionate with myself, and I'm very compassionate with other people. So I don't have a lot of judgments about people or what they're doing or about myself. And I think that's something maybe just the way I was created, why I was always able to try something, just go, Oh, I can paint, but I have no training in painting but here watch me and then I just figure it out somehow so I never I never had that set for myself and I never really had that set for someone for someone else so what would you recommend for someone that does have that voice going on meditation just meditation and yoga and i think what cultivated a lot for me too is a lot of time on the mat a lot of time in yoga you know when you get that second attention

or even being in spiritual practice when i'm looking at you but i have another attention on a divine energy the same time so it's holding that double awareness and then you can say it's sort of like also the, the little child, this is super, super helpful. Okay. Because we are spiritual beings having a human experience. So the ego or the little, the person is just like a little child, you know, so you can care for your little child and you can understand that that's not you. You can say, Oh, I'm feeling jealous. Well, that's just the little child that's feeling jealous. That's not you. You can say, oh, I'm feeling jealous. Well, that's just the little child that's feeling jealous. That's not you. So you can connect with that greater self and actually comfort yourself and take care of yourself the way you would somebody else.

So I think it's the disconnection from ourselves, you know, that that gets that can be problematic. I think another thing that's helped me a lot is understanding that that kind of mentality is also a very selfish mentality, right? Because it's very self-obsessed, like, oh, it's all about me and like, what's going to happen to me? And, you know, one of the things that I learned very early on in sobriety was that self-esteem comes from performing esteemable acts, right? And so a way of combating that, that kind of default setting or overcoming it is to get out of yourself and your problems and just invest yourself in somebody else, like call somebody else up who's having a harder time than you. And there's nothing that

will cure yourself of getting out of your own head and your own like petty, whatever it is, looping, you know, thought patterns, uh, than just by getting involved in somebody else and helping them through a difficult time. Well, it's interesting because that's almost a contradiction in how people normally think. You normally think if you're very positive, then suddenly you become qualified to encourage others. But actually, the people who are most discouraged should be the ones encouraging others because that's how you really make the most transformation, probably on both sides. Of course. Well, just by virtue of being a human being,

you have experiences that have value to other people, right? Yeah, I think they happen. Things happen to people who will be able to share them. That's why they happen to you. Like, I have certain things that have happened to me that are pretty horrible, but those things made me the woman I am today, in a way. So I agree with that completely. It's funny because the past, let's say, five or six years since we've really gone kind of full force down this type

of path, it's almost like I welcome bad things to happen. Because then it's like... I don't know. He's calling Grace. Grace. Grace. Grace here.

But then it's like this gives me a chance to actually see if this stuff that I've been doing is working. I think life... It'll give you enough.

Don't ask for more. Grace. We'll just call Grace into this. Yes, thank you thank you yes well the worst case scenario is it gives you something awesome to write about yeah that's always that i i always know i'm gonna have content like uh everything we had something bad happen this morning actually somebody took my latest book and completely duplicated it and published it under their name.

Yeah. And so it was just then, you know, and then we didn't know. All sorts of things started to think, well, what else is he doing or what's he up to? Like on Amazon and everything? On Amazon. The mind, the voice went crazy. Went crazy. We have to do something.

But then again, it gives an opportunity to sort of work through something like that just happened to Rich too. Yeah, no, somebody I just found out somebody published a book on it's a Kindle on Amazon about running and the and the on the cover is a picture of me running and like, I've never heard of this person. I have no and I'm like, I don't know anything about it or whatever. And he just stole a photograph of me and put it on the cover of his book. it or whatever and he just stole a photograph of me and put it on the cover of his book but actually that's a sign it's a sign you know what it is it's um that's a distraction from uh from like energies that want to distract you you know what i mean and again that gives us the chance to see exactly is this practice did we you know we call meditations often called a practice well

practice for what practice for this moment right this is one of call meditations often called a practice well practice for what practice for this moment right this is one of those moments that it's a practice for so did it did it work it was my practice for me it delayed my yoga practice by like two hours it was like i was calling the thing well i saw it first at like you know i was kind of not feeling so well i looked at 3 in the morning at my books, and I saw, why are there two Choose Yourself guides to wealth out there? And then I saw this, but then I went back to sleep. I didn't think about it.

And then when we were dealing with Amazon, you were like, we've got to call Jeff Bezos right now. And I'm like, let's just play this out. See, that's just play this out. Somebody literally just cribbed the entire thing, same cover, same title, and said it was by you? Actually, he said it was by me, all in caps,

with him as the editor, and then he stole all my reviews. There were two versions of my book. I tried putting a one-star review, and it went into the real book too. That's an amazing scam. So whoever's doing that is out there doing it

to probably a lot of people. Oh, we saw he is. of people unknowingly just, you know, accidentally buying the wrong book and these people just profiting off of that.

So I would call customer service and I would say, listen, I'm going to give you a chance to be a real hero at Amazon right now because someone has like hacked a thousand books

at Amazon. And she was like, I'm sorry, sorry, I can't help you. But finally, because fortunately we know people at Amazon, we were able to get things accomplished. And I think he's down now? Yeah, yeah. And so that's what I figured would happen. That's interesting.

I mean, I think that it's a great, this is how Julie and I are different, right? So when I found out that there's this book out there and I'm on the cover and it's talking about the paleo diet and all these things that like are not who I am. response to this and she's like oh that's interesting you know like so what do we you know like it just doesn't it she's like not investing herself emotionally in this at all which i think is probably the more apropos reaction to this because i'm spinning my wheels and going crazy and the truth is it's a quality problem in certain respects it's like it's you know it's a it's a it's a compliment and it's really just not a big deal. Yeah, my reaction was probably somewhere in the middle because I saw he was getting sales. Like his Kindle rank was like competing with my Kindle rank.

Yeah, that's not good. So I had to wonder, like, how much money is he, you know, kind of putting his hand in my pocket, which I don't really like so much. Well, again, I mean, it's not like I would want that to be changed. And, I mean, I don't think that that's okay to do. I also, I find it kind of ridiculously funny, you know, funny that humanity works that way or the illusion of that mind. And then at the other end, I also see that that energy will try to disrupt you. So whenever I'm in those situations, you can just go to Jedi Warrior.

Okay? So if you're really walking the path, you're a Jedi Warrior. So have you ever seen a Jedi Warrior lose their shit on screen? They don't. No, they don't. And I'll tell you where your power is.

Your power is in neutral. Neutral compassion. So you just stay in zero. Wait, what does that mean? Neutral compassion? It means stay in your core, like actually feel the center, like three inches below your heart. Like take a deep breath?

I think that's what we were able to do. Yeah, and just get— You still take the action. You still take the action. You just don't get all emotional. Don't spike your insulin. Yeah, for instance, we tracked him down, like personally, because his name was exposed and

we had his LinkedIn page. So I just wrote him a note saying, hey, no hard feelings. You just need to take this down. And he never responded. But just we did those types of actions. Given the resources we had available, as you were talking about earlier, we took the right actions. And that's all we could do. Then I had to write a post, and I had to do a podcast, and I had to do other things. What's so hilarious, though, is that it's so easy to find out who this guy is. Obviously, he knows he's going to get caught.

What is the mentality that's going on there? He's just counting on you saying, oh, we'll just let bygones. So in the meantime, he pockets a little bit and then just moves on to the next book. But he should have, if I were him, he should have at least done it in a fake name

because he has actually books that he's written that he does make money off of and I warned him in the note, like, you could put yourself in serious trouble here. Like,

you should not do this. I know that part. Yeah. But I love the idea of like him waking up in the morning and a light bulb going off in his head.

I'm going to copy Jason. And he didn't copy any other books. I asked, why didn't he copy Tim Ferriss' book or something? I think it happened to you because you're going to tell this story then. Because it's a great story. And all of these, talking to you guys, you not having the voice. He has it. I went crazy.

Yeah, that voice. Well, and that's the scary thing, too. Well, that's the kind of tragic thing in a way. And it's like, you know, you get these people that are impulsed and, you know, they do horrible things. And it's not even them. It's another energy that comes in that basically kind of takes over. So you could call it the dark side. Yeah, you could call it that.

No, but also he could be scared. He lives in Bangladesh, right? So he could be scared. He could be broke or needed a little extra money really quickly. That's right. And so this was a technique. He was like, I have to do this. Yeah.

I'm so sorry, James. You should write him a thank you letter because he gave you something to write about. Exactly. Right. Well, but we have stuff like letter because he gave you something to write about. Exactly. Right. Well, but we have stuff like this, I would say, every other day. There is some experience that is so over the top we have to write about it. Living with James is like living with a tornado that's about to erupt. And the eruption happens about once a month.

Guaranteed. Yeah, that's right. Same thing. Maybe even a little more frequently. Beautiful. Well, I think we've got to wrap it up because I've got to go. I've got to go. Okay. Just one thing that I wanted to mention as a tool also to help with the voice, right?

So I think, you know, we all know that if you just look at it logically and look at the cosmos and look at really how meaningful are we, you know, even as a species. You know, everybody's like we have to save the planet. Well, the planet will be fine. It's a matter of if humanity continues to exist, you know, the way we've been behaving. Oh, wait, I'm sorry to interrupt on that. Yeah, go ahead. So I said that recently. And did someone freak out?

Someone actually wrote a blog post saying I should be institutionalized at a mental institution. Oh, no, now they're going to say it about me. I said the human species is one out of 8.7 million. So who really? I said I really like humans, but it doesn't really matter on this planet if we exist or not. No, it doesn't. The planet's going to be fine. Do a lot better.

That's right. Definitely. It's up to us. And, I mean, we're trying to do everything we can, you know, so we'll see how we fare. But what I would say is, and this is a spiritual practice, it's very, very simple. And it's that, you know, before you go to bed, you know, you can offer your entire life to that force, all the good and all the bad. So you don't take any of the credit, you just go, okay, you know, in gratitude, I live this day and I offer you my entire existence today. And now I'm lying down to sleep. And then when you wake up in the morning,

you dedicate your whole day to that existence. So when something great happens, it's not yours. And when something tragic happens, it's not yours. But you're simply serving, you're of service. You know, it's funny. We wrote about that a little bit in the power of no, I think we call that chapter of the anti-law of attraction in that we said, let's assume for a second, we don't know either way. Let's assume for a second, there is something similar to the law of attraction. We don't want any of it. Like whatever you were going to give it to us, just give it to wherever you want to give was a chapter in the power of no.

You wrote that one. Yeah. Well, that's very similar to the idea of surrender, which is like a big thing in sobriety, right, in recovery. Like the idea of like letting go and non-attachment, right? Like surrendering the results. Like you do the work, but you surrender your attachment to the result of that, you know, and there's a certain piece that comes with that. And it's actually very,

it feels like defeat. It's difficult to like mentally grapple with what that means. Cause it sounds like you're giving up, but it's actually not, it's actually like a very kind of courageous, powerful thing to do. Right. Cause you can always take action. It doesn't stop you from taking action. Right. But you're not derailed by the results of whatever that, wherever that action leads. And you're not giving up, you're giving in

to something greater than yourself. You know, than the personality. And, you know, it's beautiful. And,

I mean, really, when you look, if you look at it just logically, like, even the most famous person that you've ever heard of

in your entire life. So, they die, and it's on the news for what, like five minutes? Right. And then it's over. So it's like what illusion are we creating in our minds? So that's why live the life that you want to live.

Live the life that you were designed to live. And the answer lies in your heart. And stay out of fear. Do what you love. and you're going to be good i love it and thank you guys for joining us thank you podcasters in dining rooms drinking tea discussing everything we're still not sure whose podcast this is but it will be it'll go we've got five five different i feel like i like you interviewed us. I still have so many questions for you guys. We'll have to do it again.

For sure. In California. Very cool. Thanks, you guys. Thanks so much for your time. You guys are lovely. You guys love each other. It's really delightful.

We love each other. You guys are so much love. We do. Mutual love affair. All right. Until next time, then. Yes. Peace. Plants. All right. Until next time, Matt. Yes. Peace.

Plants. Namaste. All right. So that was cool, right? I thought that was super fun. I find them to be delightful and I really enjoyed that. I hope you did as well. So be sure to check out the James Altucher show and the yoga podcast with Claudia. Both of those are on iTunes. You can read James's blog, The Altucher Confidential, at jamesaltucher.com. And you can read Claudia's blog at claudiayoga.com. Be sure to check out

all their books. That should keep you busy for about a year. Just don't forget to use the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for those purchases. In any event, links to all this stuff, including all their social media accounts and some relevant press stuff, can all be found on the episode page at richroll.com. And be sure to let me know what you thought of this episode in the comments section, also on the episode page at richroll.com. Keep sending in the questions for future Q&A podcasts to info at richroll.com. And, of course, for all your plant power needs, go to richroll.com as well. We've got nutrition products. We have signed copies of Finding Ultra and the Plant Power Way.

We've got 100% organic cotton garments, Julie's meditation program. You heard Claudia singing the praises of that. We have plant power tech teas, which are great. And we have plant powereded Peace and Plants sticker packs, temporary tattoos. We've got Fine Art, the USDA series from my fine artist buddy, Andrew Pasquella.

That's a super cool new addition to the site. Basically, everything you need to take your health and your life next level, we've got your bases covered at richroll.com. If you're into online courses, I got two of those at mindbodygreen.com, The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, as well as The Art of Living with Purpose. The former is all about getting more plant-powered in your life. It's a

good sort of compadre piece to the plant-powered way, I think. And The Art of Living with Purpose is really about setting goals and getting your life on a better trajectory with strategies and tools. I'm really proud of both of these courses, both of which are multiple hours of streaming video content and an online community, all kinds of good stuff.

You can find them at mindbodygreen.com. Just click on video courses. All the information is there. So thanks for supporting the show. Thanks for telling a friend. Thank you for sharing it on social media. Thank you for leaving a comment on the episode page. And thank you for giving us a review on iTunes.

Yes, we love that. And of course, for using the Amazon banner at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. Okay, you guys, I will see you in a few days. Hope you're having a great week. And keep it real. Keep it authentic. All right?

Can you do that for me? Cool, you guys. All right. Peace. Plants. Thank you.