The Rich Roll Podcast - John Joseph Wants You To Wake The F*ck Up

Episode Date: April 18, 2016

Back by popular demand, John Joseph — legendary New York hardcore punk icon and Cro-Mags’ frontman — returns for a 4th appearance on the RRP to do what he does best: incite, provoke, educate and entertain. If you're a longtime listener of the show, Johnny Bloodclot needs no introduction — he's my most popular guest to date. For the uninitiated, John is a true American original. The very definition of hardcore. A survivor. A spiritual warrior spouting straight talk directly from the streets of the Lower East Side with one singular, driving purpose: getting people to wake the f&*k up. Conceived and raised in abuse, deprived of opportunity and left to his own devices, John turned to violence and drugs to make his way in the world. It's a path that predictably led to violence, crime, addiction and incarceration. His teen years spent as a drug mule, he graduated from foster care to unimaginably horrific stints in juvenile detention. Then things went downhill. To avoid long-term incarceration, he enlisted in the Navy, only to go AWOL after a fight. Fleeing the law and rudderless, John found redemption in the hardcore punk rock scene flourishing on Manhattan's Lower East Side in the early 1980's. Taken in by the Bad Brains' frontman H.R. — a devotee of Rastafari — John began to explore not just his musicianship, but his spirituality as well. It's a journey that birthed the Cro-Mags– one of the era's most iconic and influential hardcore punk bands — and later led to life in a Hare Krishna monastery, where he found his spiritual salvation and developed a life-long love of meditation, yoga, the vegan lifestyle, racing Ironman triathlons, and most importantly, his profound devotion to service. This guys walks his talk. I urge the newcomer to check out John's first appearance on the show. One of the most powerful podcasts I have ever published, RRP 41 is a beautiful documentation of an incredible life. When you're done with that, dial up RRP 66 & RRP 95. Then turn your attention to Meat Is For Pussies*. I'm proud of the foreword I wrote for John's book and it's a fun, easy read — especially for the skeptical male who continues to harbor the misinformed idea that giving up animal products equates to an abandonment of masculine identity. Today's conversation picks up where we last left off. Specific topics include: * recapping John's background * his transition to a vegan lifestyle * his punk rock detox * the evolution of a storyteller * the explosion of art & culture in 1970's NYC * the ironman bug * helping at-risk kids through education & mentorship * the power of PMA (positive mental attitude) * the Big Pharma domino effect * combating vegan elitism Enjoy! Rich

If you don't offer the kids a positive alternative, they're going to do what I did. I went out into the world and I re-offended within a month of getting out of lockup. That's John Joseph, and this is The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. What's up, everybody? How are you guys doing out there in podcast land? My name is Rich Roll. I'm your host.

Welcome to The Rich Roll Podcast, the show where each week I sit down with the big thinkers, paradigm-breaking minds and personalities across all categories of health, wellness, diet, nutrition, athletic performance, spirituality, meditation, mindfulness, entrepreneurship, artistry, spirituality, meditation, mindfulness, entrepreneurship, artistry, creativity. You get the picture, right? Why do I do this? I do it so that all of us, myself included, can be well-served on our journey towards unlocking and unleashing and better

expressing our best, most authentic selves. So thank you so much for tuning in today. I appreciate everybody who has shared the show with your friends and your family members and your coworkers and your colleagues. That means a lot to me. And I got a really great show for you guys today. My friend, John Joseph, aka Blood Clot, back on the podcast for a fourth appearance. If you're a longtime listener to the show, the guy needs absolutely no introduction. He's one of my most popular guests in the history of this program. But if you're new, John is the lead singer of a band called the Cro-Mags. He is an icon in the punk music world and a guy who really grew up rough,

hard knock childhood on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. His childhood was rife with drugs and alcohol. He was a bit of a street urchin, spent a lot of time in some pretty nasty, gnarly juvenile detention homes, and was ultimately really saved by music, by punk music, and specifically the Bad Brains, of course, another iconic band in the punk music world. And these guys took him under their wing and really helped transform him and his life into this amazing character and personality that he is today. Currently, John is a plant-based beast of an athlete. He's an Ironman currently training for the Kona Ironman World Championships in Hawaii this fall. And he's a spiritual cat. This guy goes deep. He spent time as a monk with the

Hare Krishnas back in the day. He is a very devout practitioner of meditation, of mindfulness, and a really extraordinary example of service, a guy who practices a wide array of spiritual practices in his life. And we first met several years ago. I think it was back in 2012. Ever since we connected, he's become a really good friend of mine. I always spend tons of time with him and his girlfriend, Erica, who is a plant-based fitness trainer herself, every time I'm in New York City. And I just love this guy. And I know you guys do as well, because he's been on the show three times in the past, episodes 41, 66, and 95. The first time he was on the show, episode 41, to this day,

might just be the most popular episode I have ever done. Everybody seems to really love that one. And if you're new, I would make sure to dial that one up for some context, because in that episode, we go into his whole life story, which is absolutely mind-blowing. And today, we're a little bit more freeform. We're catching up on what he's been up to lately, how he structures his life and his priorities around training, around music, around his spiritual practices, and writing, which is something that he's very active in these days. He's writing pilots for television. And most importantly, service.

And service is really what JJ is all about. Specifically, he's currently raising Kona for charity. He's raising money for the Children's Tumor Foundation. You can donate to that campaign. I'll put a link up on the episode page, so how you can learn more about that. If you happen to be in New York City this Wednesday, May 4th, John is the guy behind a 10K, 5K run, something that he's organizing and hosting in partnership with the New York City Bridge Runners crew. And that's going to be a run through the streets of lower Manhattan. Runners, bikers, skaters, all welcome. And that also is a fundraiser to raise money for the Children's

Tumor Foundation. And then on May 29th, the Cro-Mags are playing at the Highline Ballroom in New York City to raise money for cancer on that same campaign. So those are three ways that you can get involved in JJ's life and kind of support what he's doing. Also, John hosts a walking tour through the Lower East Side, which is a really unique, amazing experience that I encourage all of you guys to do if you happen to find yourself in New York City this spring and this summer. Check my episode page for links on how you can learn more about that as well. And I got a couple more things I want to say about John before I get into the conversation, but first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time.

It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover

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When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. All right, John Joseph. I absolutely love this guy. He is one of a kind, an incredibly unique human being, insanely charismatic, one of those people that I feel like I could just leave the microphone on and leave the room and the podcast would take care of itself. This is once again, an incredibly dynamic conversation. There is some language because it is John Joseph and you don't want to edit John. He is who he is. So for those of you who are a little bit queasy, just a heads up, you know, there's a lot of F-bombs here. So you might want to put in the earbuds or make sure the little kitties aren't around. And without further

ado, ladies and gentlemen, enjoy this powerful exchange with my good friend, John Joseph. Highly anticipated. Double J back on the podcast. How many times have you been on the show dude this is like five times four four four i think that actually maybe five because uh your book party i was i did oh right we never aired that though the audio quality from really yeah it just didn't didn't work so put your phone, dude. Hold on, motherfucker. Focus and concentrate. Sorry, I know. I don't want to be a geek. I hate that. Yeah, I just...

You walk through the streets of New York and nobody... There is no contact between people a lot, except for the old school. They got their face in their phone now. Yeah, yeah. Except for the old school, the old people like me and several others that refuse to get on my phone. I know, like old man Joseph. Like, what's with the phones? Why do you talk to people anymore?

They need to make the texting lanes and everybody else gets fucking, if they get in the regular lane, they get run over. Like the bike lane, right? Yo, I'm telling you, it's ridiculous. Well, it's true because in New York, man, if your face is in your phone, you're going to walk into a telephone pole. Basically, I was running earlier today, and I almost had four accidents of people walking right in front of me. And then the thing is, New York's changed so much, but it's getting back. People are getting robbed again, so it's like.

Is that true? Yeah, yeah. My friends are cops in the 9th, and they're like, yo, strong-arm robberies are up. People getting jacked for their cell phones, their electronics. One dude got his shoes taken, everything. They went old school on him. Took everything, his shoes.

He had to walk home with no shoes. I feel so safe walking around New York. Am I just naive? No, it's safe but uh you know the thing is is is they come out hunting at night and they go around the club areas because needless to say you know dumb white people are coming out and they're under the illusion that it's you know it's this safe place and they don't realize it's still New York. It's a big city. You have to mind your P's and Q's.

I don't never let anybody get the upper hand on me. Because I don't drink. I don't take drugs. I don't text on the street. Only when you're on my podcast. Yeah, sorry. But I've dealt with a lot of situations quickly because, you know, from guns being pulled. You probably got eyes in the back of your head.

Yeah, at this point, it's like, yeah, you have to. We used to, we had a little term. We would say SOA, state of alert, meant like something was about to go down, you know. It's like some call sign business, but anyway. Well, thanks for coming to the vegan athlete thing at NYU last night. Oh, man, it was incredible. You guys, it was so tremendous. You guys killed it.

And I wanted to ask a question I didn't get to ask, but... What did you want to ask? I was going to ask, because everybody kept saying about the elitist this, and I agree it is, but I wanted to bring up the fact that you did on the YouTube channel, Vegan on $20 a Day. I thought you were going to bring that up, but nobody did. It's a good reference, because like Dom Z was saying, yeah, if you go to all these restaurants

and do prepared food, but my girl Erica goes and gets organic from Trader Joe's. And it's like we have meals for days on like $30. Yeah, it's just about shopping smart. But it's easy to fall under this idea that it's an elitist 1%er thing. When, you know, we were just talking before we started that every time you walk by, buy Chloe. There's a line around the block. And I just was was gonna have lunch there today i know you went there last night yeah there's like 30 people waiting online at 1 30 in the afternoon to go in there i'm like i'm not doing that and then you know there's so many amazing vegan plant-based restaurants in

new york city but beyond sushi same thing man lying out the door it's not cheap you know oh man i went there last night and we got two veggie burgers some air-baked fries and and uh and a kale salad and it was like 37 at chloe yeah i mean it ain't cheap you know i mean it's a treat that's not that's not super expensive that's not too bad i mean you're gonna spend that much at chipotle probably yeah but that's why i love angelica kitchen because you go there and for 18 you get soup bread and a whole huge plate of organic macrobiotic food like killing it right right you know for i had uh i had moby on the podcast i interviewed him like a week ago i haven't put that that episode up yet but we were talking about

back in the day in New York City and Angelica and all of that and I hope Angelica survives man I know it's she's trying hard it's just there's a lot more she's not the only game in town anymore and there's a lot of other places and a lot like if you go in Chloe's

or you go in Peace Food like where they do the veggie burgers and all that kind of stuff, you don't see any of those people in Angelica Kitchen. No, it's a totally different crowd. It's a different crowd. And I think the thing is, to a certain degree, you have to cater to the new people that are transitioning. I mean, my first experience at Angelica Kitchen, I went there in 1980 with the singer of the Bad Brains. And this was early Angelica's when they had just a few dishes on the menu. And that was really one of the only vegan fish restaurants in the whole city.

Yeah, well, there was that place, The Cauldron, and what's that other macrobiotic place? They do fish there, so I don place they do fish there so i don't really like eating there um you're asking me yeah um i forgot the name of it but you know the thing is is that like i said there's uh she's she's always gonna get the rice beans and greens crew you know what i call the macro psychotic some of them are just over the top. But you need to cater to people that are transitioning a little more. You know, do some, you know, veggie burgers or whatever. You know, stuff that people who are not just having good. Create the welcome mat for the.

Yeah. And, you know, case in point, I was sitting down, and the two guys that were next to me were like, yo, I ain't vegan, but I could eat this shit, man. This is really, at Chloe's. Oh, at Chloe's, right. Yeah, they're like, man, if this food is like this, I could definitely consider giving up meat, you know?

And, I mean, Angelica has its merits too man it's like you never you know sometimes all that processed vegan food man to a number on you you go in angelica's and you just come out of there i mean it's my favorite restaurant in the city hands down i go to candle too and and but that's like a treat either we're cooking at home or we're going to Angelica Kitchen. Right. All right, man. So for the few people maybe that have started listening to the podcast in that period of time since you've been on before and might not know who you are, we should probably recap your story a little bit. All right.

We can breeze through it. Yeah. story a little bit all right we can breeze through it yeah well you know i mean uh i had a little different upbringing than most of the people that go um plant-based uh you know grew up in a very violent home father was a professional boxer and uh you know almost beat my mother to death. The state put us in an abusive foster home for six years, went onto the streets, got shot, stabbed, sold dust, ended up getting in, you know, I mean, a lot of tragedy, man. My first girl, my friend that I was hustling the streets with, this dude, Mikey Debris, was a junkie,

and she liked heroin, too too Max's Kansas City punk rock kind of so like you know God you know kind of stole my girl I was a little kid and uh you know she ended up ODing and dying and you know it's just New York was like crazy insane I mean I don't know how many times people would roll up on me and I would have to put a bat or a pipe across their face. I mean, it was that type. We're talking about New York, but 77 in New York City was the murder capital of the U.S. You had the Son of Sam.

You had the blackout. You had the riots going. And I was a kid alone on the streets. I ran away from when the state closed the foster home, they put me in St. John's Home for Boys in 1976, in the spring of 76. Right, and you were like 12 or 13, probably at that point. I was 14.

14. And then that winter, January, I went on to, I couldn't take it anymore. Me and my brother were the only white kids in the home, and it was an Irish neighborhood. So the Irish kids were beating them up, and then I got jumped by like 10 of these kids. And, you know, it was just, I did my first acid trip. The dude I was with, his mother's boyfriend, threw gasoline on him and lit him on fire. What?

Yeah, this dude, Bobby K, Bobby Keeler. And yeah, he was burned from the neck down. So there was a lot of really fucked up kids in his home that had a lot of fucked up things done to them. Yeah, when he was young, he woke up his mother's boyfriend who was like this alcoholic crazy fucking guy so he threw the kid in the bathtub and set him on fire that's insane and uh yeah his whole neck was burned and uh so the first acid trip i ever had was with him he was older than me he was like 18 and I was like 14 and he tried to

murder me pulled a knife on me he had like a bad trip so like you know just crazy the craziness of New York and uh you know just dealing with day-to-day life was an insane uh thing to deal with and then my brother left the home too he was with these junkies and used heroin and got yeah i mean i hadn't seen him in months and then he had yellow Jonas i fucking didn't even recognize him i was like and then um he got busted and uh sent upstate went to Spofford and then i racked up three cases drugs breaking and entering in a we tried to rob a supermarket through the roof and they caught us and then the last one was an angel dust sale you know i wrote a pilot about it it got me signed to howie tannenbaum who is uh vince at uh no icm he's vince gilligan's agent

that did uh breaking bad and he reps the writers of the wire and and um sons of anarchy and so he read this pilot i wrote about the cop who took down the angel dust trade and i was tied into that as as uh you know i sold dust right and i got shot because of it and then uh the guy who was the big protector of this dude uh computer, was the guy that made the dust. And this dude, Disco Mike, unbeknownst to me, he looked like John Travolta on steroids. And he was like, Forest Park was all rockers, and he was this Guido dude. Disco Mike. Yeah, Disco.

We called him Disco Mike. That was his name. And like I said, he fucking took steroids. was this guido dude disco mike yeah disco we called him disco mike that was his name and um you know like i said he fucking took steroids he was a weightlifter but what do you he drugged and raped over like 20 kids and the night i got shot i went back to his house because i couldn't go to the hospital and this other little disco kid was there and he drug and he drugged both of us. He put shit in our drink, and I woke up. The motherfucker was trying to carry me to the bedroom to fucking rape me,

and I just started fighting him, and then he dropped me. I didn't know this story. Yeah, it's in the book. It's in my book. And then I woke up to the kid screaming, and I walked to the back room, screaming and uh i walked to the back room and and and this guy who's like six five was raping this fucking little kid like anally raping him and i just put a bat across his across his back robbed him went back took all his dust went back to forest park and uh and i got popped and that's when i got sent upstate i did three months inofford, which is a fucking nutty place.

And then 18 months upstate in one of the real tough juvenile detention places in upstate New York. And then from there, I joined the Navy. And that's when the adventure really started because I met this band called the Bad Brains. And ended up going AWOL in 80 and working for them, and they gave me a job doing security. I got in a knife fight against the hit, these guys from the Hitmen who were outside their studio, like trying to stab people, and the Beastie Boys were there.

Everybody was there. Nobody would fight these fucking dudes, i just i went at him and i knocked the first dude out and then i beat the other guys with a chain but i ended up getting stabbed and they put a fucking kos on me which is kill on sight so nobody would hang out with me from the punk rock scene wow and then uh bad brain squashed it i just walked up ready to deal with whatever they were going to do. And they motherfuckers surrounded me. And then Bad Brains came out of the studio, Doc and Daryl from the Bad Brains, and squashed it. And they ended up being like, yo, you're the only fucking white boy with heart.

And they never messed with the studio, 171A. Right. It was almost like that was your rite of passage or initiation to get inside the circle. Like that trope in any movie. Like in The Departed when Leonardo DiCaprio has to beat that guy up so that Jack Nicholson will think that he's... Well, you know, I was still doing drugs at the time. So I was on a Gorilla Biscuit, which is known as a Quaalude. And I thought I was invincible.

I wouldn't think Quaaludes would be the the drug you'd want to be on when you're in a fight ludes make you fucking i mean you could get hit with a bat and still keep coming it's it's it's up there with angel dust you know it's uh i mean i took one lude like uh the lemon 714s which was like the the strong ones. But then they told me, listen, you want to work with us, you can't eat meat and you can't take drugs. And you can't drink none of that. So I thought up, as they say in Jamaica, and I got off. I went raw. Did you just do it straight that day forward?

No, it was like a gradual thing. Like I said,r took me to angelica kitchen and i i mean i left and went and ate a fucking hamburger i was like yo they call they he got me the dragon bowl i'm like where's the dragon meat dude this shit tastes horrible and then and then he started taking me to vegetarian paradise like the transition the chinese vegan places trend more transitional and the cauldron which had tofu pies and and i was like yo all right and i then i got a job in a health food store so they made sandwiches and all kinds of stuff there so it became a lot

it became easier for me to do that and then i never i never stopped we started the crow mags all right but hold on a second so for people that don't know or aren't that familiar with the hardcore punk scene, explain who HR was and the kind of significance of the Bad Brains and this intersection of kind of straight-edge culture, the vegan movement with this kind of music and what was happening in New York at that time. Well, the Bad Brains came from D.C. So they started in like 77 and they became, they were punk rock, black punk rockers.

But they were the most incredible musicians. Like everybody from Henry Rollins to the Chili Peppers to Fishbone to Dave Grohl. It's his favorite band. I mean, you know, Bad Brains are the fucking messiahs of this music and in 1979 uh they met one of uh bob marley's people this guy ray chinna uh in dc and they lived on this farm together and started growing vegetables and you know it was like then they became Rasta so I met them like I guess when I met them they were still punk but like kind of getting converted I met them in Norfolk at a club when I was in the Navy I was the only that's when you went AWOL from the Navy yeah I went I racked up I mean I was so crazy in the Navy man

I was fucking smuggling drugs. I got popped. I got a case in Norfolk. I sold to undercovers, but I snuck drugs back from Jamaica and Florida. Is there still some shit you got to answer for to the Navy? No, man. My band members turned me in in 95. Harley, the bass player and the guitar player, to get me out of the way, ratted me out to the federal government. The cops came breaking down my door and I was already gone because I was on a job site. They texted me.

So I straightened it all out. I got a lawyer. Actually, I got an honorable discharge because my lawyer i left for as a conscientious objector because there was no war first of all and then i i i was a hari krishna i became a monk you know after the bad brain other part of the story i i i i read prabhav's books and got into it deep and uh and and i was just so fucked up as a human being i I was, you know, we had a lot of bad shit happen to us in the home, man. All kinds of every kind of abuse you can imagine happened to me and my two brothers in that place. And I became very violent.

Like, I really, I'm writing a memoir on addiction now and everything I've gone through for almost 40 years as a result of what was done to us as kids and the anger that I had towards life and people and and it never goes away because if you don't there's always gonna any little thing could surface and you're gonna take shelter of addiction so it was a lot of stuff you know i had to deal with um to get that done and um i mean when you went when you got off the drugs and you started working with the bad brains you're still left with all those emotions and all that unresolved anger and all of that right like how did you process that when you could no longer get high well you know what i started doing was uh i smoked weed because right they were rastafarians so i smoked weed but then

i started reading more about just not taking any intoxication and i started going to yoga uh in 81 and that really helped me and i was meditating and chanting and i just felt is that with like david and shannon life were you um or how that started no they hadn't stayed no they hadn't started they were still this was from the same scene yeah but this was pre-life cafe like life cafe came later i think he was up to doing what he was doing he was he's a recovering heroin addict right yeah like yeah i knew them i used to see them when they was copping right like i i got into the crack i was i had fucking five dealers trying to kill me i mean i robbed insane people like they they uh their exact words were when we see that tat that tattoo looking nigga with the tattoos we're gonna kill

him the surfer looking nigga with the tattoos we we're going to kill his ass. They told my friend that. So, I mean, you know, it was always anything could set me off. And it's been something I've been dealing with for a long time. Like, you know, even as much as, you know, when I hurt my back a few years ago taking painkillers. And, you know, it was so easy. And really it wasn't until my brothers like almost died my younger brother from addiction that i just was like yo i'm never gonna take even a fucking codeine tablet you know and just just completely uh you know stay stay clean and uh you know even like like i said in my book even when i smoked

crack i would go get wheatgrass juice the next morning to fucking try to detoxify myself and i mean i think that's the only reason i survived it the amount of crack and freebase that i did was insane didn't explode yeah mean, but I was still 100% vegan. Like, just still eating fucking clean food, but I was a maniac. Mash up, yeah. Basically, the idea is that

HR and, you know, punk rock saved your life. Absolutely. And you throw yourself into the music. You start your own band, the Cro-Mags, and you have your own journey with that. And to this day, you're considered an icon of the movement, a Cro-Mags legendary band from that era. And you're still rocking it out. And I kind of want to take it, because we've done this a bunch of times now.

I just signed a new record deal with Blood Clot, this band I'm doing. Like, Blood Clot is a term that the rosters use when everything is fucked up. So it's like... And that was your nickname. Well, that's because originally... The human incarnation of being fucked up. No, no, no, no. I'll tell you where that came from because a lot of people don't know. And the Bad Brains, when something was...

When the amp would fucking blow or the head or something they'd be like fix the blood clot this blood clot that so the roadies we formed this band called blood clot out on the road with them so we would open up for them every night in 81 like all these shows pre pre uh chromags well the chromag started in august of 81 right we started rehearsing and then uh for like four months dave hahn was the bad brains manager was the drummer dave stein was played guitar harley was on uh bass and me uh singing and dave stein um went to college dave hahn went to a drug program and the band broke up and then i went on tour with the bad brains like right after that like in the fall and we went down south and then

blood clot formed out on the road while you know we you know you're sitting around setting up the gear and everything so the roadies just we just started jamming and writing these songs and um that's how that manifested so then it was uh you know john from blood clot john blood clot and then blood clot but really the name came because of the band right so i just we just uh and now like 35 years later you're 35 years later so who's in the band with you it's uh joey castillo who played in queens of the stone age and i mean he's old school phil caivano who was just i mean opened up for bad brains with this uh with his punk rock band uh in 79 i mean he's been around forever this bass player he's in monster magnet now and todd youth who's played with i

mean he's just like an incredible guitar player writer uh musician he's played with everybody from danzig to motorhead to glenn campbell you know what i'm saying that's like that's some range yeah dude he is fucking badass so i went out september uh to race the navy seal half iron man and i tore my calf and i couldn't race so todd was i was bummed like a motherfucker but that's what life is about turning adversity into into something good so i said hey man why don't we go track those songs uh so NRG and in the valley gave us like spec time and we wrote we went in and recorded five songs and uh and we got a deal at off of those five songs uh to metal blade records and uh the record's gonna drop in September and not only that, I had, unbeknownst to me, my agent gave Howie Tannenbaum and Michael Schurna, who works with him from ICM, my pilot on this Dust thing, this drama.

Right. So explain that. I mean, because you've told me at length, like, we've talked story on this quite a bit off air, but it's a pretty amazing story. I started out writing about me and the crew that i was with there's these guys computer and so uh i gave this the pilot to patty jenkins who wrote monster right and for people that are listening a pilot is a script for the initial episode of a television program and if they like it then they shoot it and then

see what this response is yeah it's a whole development thing so i gave it to patty jenkins a really good friend of mine she's from the hardcore scene like back before she ever did monster and she directed did she also write monster she wrote and directed monster yeah she's incredible and she's done so many other projects. And, you know, she's the kind of person that's such a good friend. She's like read some of my worst shit, but always gave me constructive criticism. So she said, you know what? You capture the fucking world. But what this is lacking is the police aspect of it.

It needs law enforcement. That's what will help sell the show. So I asked my friend, Rich, Bill Hall. He's in the 7-5. And if anybody's seen the documentary, the 7-5, like the worst corrupt cop out of New York City came from that precinct.

So when that guy was going down, Bill was coming out of the academy this was you know 25 he's got 25 years on the job so i said to him hey man i need to you know he always uh does consultation work with me lets me you know you know um i he's an advisor on the dialogue and stuff for me because you know you got to get the cop shit right so he's helped me out and then i said yo i need to find a cop that was around during the dust days and he was like fucking three four months he's like yo i can't find nobody i asked everybody then one day he was just walking around in a mall in long island and he had his sergeant 7 uh 75th precinct so this older guy comes up and he's like

hey you on a job and he's like yeah i'm in the 7-1 turns out this guy was he's like yeah i'm retired i was out of like the 105 or the ones i forget what precinct it was but it was right where as far as park was he's like yo let me ask you something do you do you have any recollection of like the dust thing that was happening in the city and the guy just smiles and he's like i was in charge of the task force that took down angel dust in the city and he's like my buddy's writing a pilot it's legit he's with like a big agent would you be into talking to him and he's like yeah so i go out to long island to a bar to meet this dude fucking still jacked he's like 70 fucking years old like jacked and um

and uh start talking to him and his story was just fucking incredible of how he you know this was before all the technology and why even like fucking wire taps and all this stuff and uh so i just was like yo this has got to be this is the protagonist basically it goes from your story of like growing up on the streets to becoming this guy's story and that got and i and so i gave it to my literary agent to send to the TV people, and I didn't know if they read it or what. And so this cop's name is John Wildman Wild. And he was nicknamed Wildman by the cops in the New York City Police Department because he was way more violent than the fucking criminals. So it's kind of like justice is restored when the police are more violent than the criminals like some dirty harry type shit and um yeah so uh and i didn't know if they read it or what and so

they set up a meeting and i go in there we start shooting the shit they were from chicago and all this other stuff and we just had this great conversation and then like and then it got down to fucking brass tacks and they were like yo we read your fucking pilot and we just had this great conversation and then like and then it got down to fucking brass tacks and they were like yo we read your fucking pilot and we loved it like we want to represent you and i was like so i left the meeting and i called up my literary agent and i'm like yo they read the fucking pilot they want to they signed me and he was like yeah i didn't want to tell you that they loved it because i wanted you to do the hard sell on yourself. And you did because they called me up like five minutes after you walked out and were like, this guy is what, you know, he gets it.

And they were like, yo, you get the street. And 10 years of studying with Robert McKee, who wrote Story. So it's having a great story. He's the guru of screenwriting. He's a character in that Charlie Kaufman movie adaptation, which is basically my favorite movie of all time. And let me tell you, what's his name that played him? Brian Cox.

Brian Cox fucking nailed it. Oh, my God. I was looking at Robert McKee. I've taken that story seminar twice. I've done his workshops. And so has Charlie. That's why he was able to display it. And he did everything that Robert McKee said not to do to end the film.

Well, that's the irony. On an act of God. I mean, that movie folds in on itself a hundred times over yeah which is why it's so brilliant but yeah the scenes with with him with the mckee character played by brian cox are precious genius and and that is what that guy's like yeah but he said he you had personal interaction with him yeah yeah because like he smoked and uh and i was like yo if you're gonna smoke i got this organic green tea extract and it's so powerful that it's gonna kill the free radicals from you and that motherfucker was

writing me like hey mcgowan you got some more of that fucking green tea that they called me the green tea extract guy but then my friend signed up his sister and called the whole company and uh and he's like oh yeah they're like how did you find whole company. And he's like, oh, yeah. They're like, how did you find out about us? And he's like, yeah, my buddy John Joseph McGowan. You know, he's like, oh, yeah, we know that guy. And he's like, my friend. And my friend Artie goes, yo, you know what his nickname is?

Because Artie is the Googie from the Misfits. He's a fucking character. They could do a movie about him. Five movies about him. And he's like, yo, he's telling the people from the McKee seminar. He has them on the phone. He's like, yo, you know what that guy's nickname is? And they're like, what? And Arnie goes, his name is Blood Clot.

And he just fucking cracks up. And then he goes to the whole office. Yo, you know that guy that gives Robert the fucking green tea extract? You know what his nickname is? Blood clot. And the whole office starts laughing. That's pretty funny. Yes, but Robert is a really amazing guy, man.

I went up to him after the seminar and asked him a question. And he knew right away. Because I was asking, this film I was writing, I based the character on what I went through as a kid in a home, and he said something very valuable to me. He goes, it's not what happens to you, it's what you do as a result of it. That's where the story is, and I was like, bingo.

Action and reaction. Yeah. So anyway, that's... So these cats at ICM dug the pilot, but it doesn't end up getting made, right? Like period piece. Yeah, well, he told me straight up. He goes, look, man, this is, you know,

a period piece for a first-time writer is your chances are very fucking slim. But if you write something contemporary, you know, I'm telling you now, like we, we can sell it. So I pitched a bunch of log lines to him and they were like, which is like a one sentence thing of what your story is about. So they picked this story that, uh, that I had and they were like, develop this. Can you send us a show Bible bible which is characters with the setting where it goes you know basically it's like five pages and i sent this thing to them and they were like we have

never gotten a more developed fucking show bible than what you sent us like out of all the writers they said they said develop it so i've been working since september and uh i almost got it done now and i'm gonna submit it to him uh the end of the month you better let me read it before you submit it to him man you keep telling me you're gonna let me read it but i'm almost done with it yeah so when you see uh that new tv show uh vinyl on hbo i i watch what do you think because like i'm i'm obsessed with one of the one of the things that I

you know that I love when we have these conversations is like I just I love learning about what New York was like

in that period of time because music was exploding you know in the downtown scene and culturally you know with Andy Warhol and like everything

that was happening it was like really the crucible of everything that was happening in art and culture you know that would then ripple across America. And so when I see it depicted on film, whether it's, you know, a Martin Scorsese movie or a television show, like I'm always, you know, wanting to know, like, how authentic is that? Well, I mean, Terrence Wint is a great writer, but I just think he's not he the subject he's not, he's not nailing it.

Like, if I would have wrote that, I'm not saying I'm a better writer than him, but I was at Max's Kansas City. I was dealing in the music business. I was watching all this shit go down. It's just getting so off. Like, everybody I know that is involved in the music, like our manager, Michael Alago, fucking new warhol it's like he hung out he signed metallica like he's been on the punk scene since 74 73 and he's like oh i

fucking hate it because he's involved in the music like i watched it and i liked it because i'm just i just i'm a sponge for that but but I wasn't there I don't know what it's like and I've talked to a couple other people that you know were in the city at the time and involved in the music business and they've said similar things I mean what would you have done like I would have got more into into the characters and the music and the clubs and uh well maybe the show will do that if you give it a chance I mean i've just watched like it's getting real caught up in the main uh characters drug use and it's you know i mean i i you know i i get i mean listen my agent gave me that that pilot when it was the untitled rock and roll pilot oh so you read it before i

read it before it ever uh came on to h you know he he sent it to me because actually the pilot was brilliantly written it's you know and I love Terrence Winters so is the is the first episode of the show does it diverge from the pilot on the page oh no it's pretty much right there yeah it's like uh it's pretty like opening scene all of those scenes with the you know it's pretty, like, opening scene, all of those scenes with the, you know, it's pretty much what you see on the page. But when you see, like, that, I'm assuming it's Soho where he's parked his car in the beginning and where the show is. Yeah, that's down over there. And, like, these, like, you know, these vacant buildings that were, like, collapsing and falling on top of each other. Yeah, but that never happened, that building collapsing.

But there was a lot of arson, right? Yeah, well, that was the developers that were doing that shit. I mean, they burnt that building down to get us out and murdered three people, and the cops never investigated it. So there was a lot of— Actually, the nickname that they've been giving in New York is Jewish Barbecues because most of the landlords were Jewish. So they would burn the fucking building down

to collect the insurance money. So that was the nickname they got. But yeah, I used to go down to the mug club on White Street, like Soho and all that shit. I just watched After Hours a couple weeks ago, that Scorsese movie, and that was shot in those areas. Soho was deserted. It was a ghost town. What to speak of Alphabet City.

I don't know. For me being involved with music since then, it's just real hokey. The characters are fucking hokey. Mick Jagger's son is flat as fuck as an actor. It's just not really... He plays the punk rock kid, right? Yeah, and what's it called? Nasty Bits or whatever the fucking band is called.

I don't know. It's just... And then they have cameos by supposed like the Dolls and all kinds of people. And, you know, I mean, whatever. To me, it's just... It's getting real contrived. And I've watched like three episodes

and it's all focused on like... What's the main actor's name uh bobby connoval yeah yeah which that guy's a great actor oh he's fucking great like but it's just getting to be too much i mean i would like to see more about you know they they started with the storyline of that uh art of that blues singer that got his vocals crushed. I just would like to see more about the musicians and somebody that was really around Max's and all the fucking CB's in the clubs back then doing it. Maybe doing more technical consulting with them

because, I don't know. It's not really just about punk rock it's about how that change went was a transitionary time in new york city yeah you know and rock and roll in general and music and rock and roll in general it was like you know like people were trying to there was a they had one episode like some of it's real funny like they had the Jethro Tull fucking like and then the guy's like where the fuck did you find these

and he's like at a medieval county fair like shit the guy was like playing flute I mean there's some entertaining moments but we'll see I hope it improves I mean whatever you know all right so you got the new you got blood clot are you you're coming out to la to record yeah when are you doing when are

you laying it down well i got uh i got iron man texas may 14th and then may 29th is a big benefit in the city with the chrome eggs for the the boy i'm racing uh kona for so and then i think the first week in june june gloom i come to la to record so these guys are out writing stuff now and uh you know getting getting all that together and uh all right so two ironmans this year no three three oh so vine man of vine man texas and then you're gonna race kona and you've never All right, so two Ironmans this year. No, three. Oh, so Texas. Vineman. Vineman, Texas, and then you're going to race Kona. And you've never raced Kona before. Texas, Vineman, and then Kona. Right.

Never raced Kona. Are you excited about Kona? Oh, I'm fucking so stoked. I mean, you know, in 1981, the first time I ever saw the Ironman, I'm like, why World of Sports? I fucking was like moved to tears by the stories of these people crossing the line. And, you know, it's like the pros are the pros. But it's the guys that have to go to work and do all this other shit and race for people that they lost from cans.

Those are the stories that really fucking move you. And I just was like, I said in 81, I'm i'm like i'm gonna do that fucking race one day you know i i had a cycling running background and i love to swim and do whatever but i did my first triathlon ever was new york city ironman was my first triathlon out the box your first triathlon was an ironman yeah i never and all these guys at the bike shop were like don't you think like you know it's really an elitist fucking, like, a lot of dick mows fucking, like, you know, there is, dude. And I'm just like, I just have fun with it. And this guy was like, I don't think you should try to do Ironman.

And then my coach, who's like this African-American dude, he's fucking badass. He's like, yo with with this motherfucker been through in his life an iron man is a walk in the fucking park and you know i played a show the night before in philly and i i had a stress fracture in my foot and i fucking drove back to new york didn't sleep took a shower and went and did a fucking iron man on no sleep and that was 13 hours that iron man the logistics of that were tricky right didn't you have to drive really far to the start and no it was uh well first of all it was 97 degrees that day no you had to go to the pier and catch a ferry up to rostock right in jersey and and it's funny

because i fucking caught the last ferry and it was all the pros and i'm like you know you know trying to shoot the shit with these dudes and they're like would you fucking shut up and leave us alone like jordan rapp won didn't he win the race? I don't remember who won it. I think Jordan Rapp won that race. All I remember was seeing those motherfuckers come flying down the Palisades, and I was like, holy shit. I was on a beat-up Kestrel. These guys were just hauling ass. But you got it done. Well, you know what?

I got it done, and I had a great time And here's the thing It's like you either get It's either one and done Or you get the Ironman bug And I got it I signed up for Cabo And was like racing that

On St. Paddy's Day 2013 I raced Cabo Got my nose broke on the swim fucking you know it's uh it's it's i love it man so how many how many ironmans have you done i've done six so now i'm uh texas would be seven and uh vine man dream comes through 35 years later. 35 fucking years later. You can't give up on your dreams. That's what I tell everybody. And, you know, I wanted to bring something up because this chef who cooks for the New York City Corrections Department hit me up. And he actually found out about me through your podcast.

podcast and uh he hit me up about doing a cooking life coaching thing inside of a prison uh in bed stye for 14 to 18 year olds so when i was here last i was here a month ago and i think i left and you were headed up you were going up there for the first time right yeah uh it's in bed stye and it's like like fucking serious shit it's like these dudes are going to due time. But there's no contact after they leave. So it's like you basically have to plant the seed in them and send them on their way. But it's like I'm so passionate about it because it's all about paying whatever you get in life, paying it forward.

So if I can get through to even one of those kids and help them out, I'm going to give them yoga books. And they're paying me, and I'm donating the money to the cancer charity that I'm racing for. It's an interesting thing. You explained this to me last month. But essentially, there used to be these giant clearing houses for these troubled kids. It was Spofford. That's where I was.

It was one big place, but now it's dispersed into places that are peppered to hell. They put them in Rikers for a while too, and they were having a lot of problem in Rikers to kids. Now they put them in different facilities around the city, and this one is in Bed-Stuy.

It's a straight-up lock-up. It's juvenile felons, basically. Yeah, it's like, it's fucking, I don't know what their crimes are, but it's a fucking prison. You know, it's like, you're going through doors, metal detectors, fucking the whole nine yards. Like, even the room they sat us in, they had to lock the door. So, give me the pitch. What's the pitch when you get in front of these kids? How many kids are you?

Well, I'm going to tell my story because I've been mentoring in the high schools. And I'll tell you, my first high school, the English teacher read my first book, The Evolution of a Cro-Magnon. And I've spoken at like maybe 15 high schools already. and I've spoken at like maybe 15 high schools already and I do it also through the Healthy School Food Program with Candle 79 and I tell my story. I just spoke a couple weeks ago at a school. Yeah, what's her name? Amy.

Amy Hanlon. Amy Hanlon, yeah. Beautiful person. So wonderful and what she does with the kids and her determination and just love for these kids, man. And joy always comes from... Candle 79, I'm going to tell you, they do well. But man, the amount of stuff they give back to the community,

they are philanthropists out the fucking wazoo. I love those. Joy and Bart are incredible. And Binet, too. Incredible people. Candle 79 is a vegan, organic vegan restaurant in New York City. So basically, even the first time I went and spoke at my first high school in East New York, it was all bloods and crips.

And the English teacher asked me to come in and speak to these kids. So I said, hell yeah. And I do it for free. I don't get paid for this. I just, I want to try to get through to these kids. So I came in. It was winter time. I just, I want to try to get through to these kids. So I came in. It was wintertime. I had a coat on.

And you could hear the mumblings. Man, what's this white motherfucker trying to tell us something? Bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. So then we go to the library. And there's like 60 kids there. And I take my jacket off. They're like, yo, that nigga got mad tattoos, yo. And then as I started relating my story, they're like, yo, this dude had it way worse than any of us.

And then, you know, then I break out my passport. I'm like, yo, working papers, Japan, Australia. I said, I've been all over the world. You know where the motherfuckers are? And I was on the original scared straight in 78 when I was locked up. They took us to Fishkill, Raleway. But it don't work. If you don't offer the kids

a positive alternative, they're going to do what I did. I went out into the world and I re-offended them within a month of getting out of lockup. So that's the whole thing. It wasn't until I met the bad brains and got into yoga

and learned about meditation and eating clean and staying and then having an outlet outlet music or whatever it is that you're passionate about that's gonna absorb like for me it's writing and training and doing playing music and doing all this stuff it takes so much of my time I'm up at five o'clock in the morning and when I hit the bed at 11 o'clock I'm out man you know i sleep six hours but then as i started relaying my story to these kids they were like yo and i got through to them because i'm like this shit is real i'm like yo

they like the kids could smell they could smell the lie if you ain't real if if you ain't real and from the streets these kids ain't gonna fucking budge that you ain't real and from the streets, these kids ain't going to fucking budge. You ain't getting through to them. But they knew. I was like, speak the lingo, you know, as you can hear on this podcast, because this is F-bombs like a mother. But, you know, they could kind of sense like, yo, this dude, you know, he's for real. You know, he been down this road. And I said, look, look man and there was one dude

in particular man and he was fucking the hard rock dude the nut to crack and like he was the one that was like yo this white mother like you know it was a lot of that type of shit going on and then at the end like he held back and like i could see i was getting i was getting through to him and then at the end he like hung i was behind the whole class and they the kids were incredible man like you know a lot of these kids are incredible kids they just came from rough homes and you know a lot of them single parent houses and the mother's working, and like, whatever the situation may be, but deep down inside, if you could get to these kids, man, there's some amazing, beautiful, beautiful people, you know, and, and this kid came up to me, and he's like, yo, man, like, I'm really in, I want to get

into acting, like, you know, how do I go about that, and'm like well if you're serious you know there's acting classes i'll pay for a couple acting yeah man so i i spotted him a couple class i mean i don't know what happened to it it's kind of like this thing now you gotta plant the seed and then it's up to them like my trainer aaron jazavanofsky worked with, you know, we used to bring kids in from, what's that frigging big boys home? Covenant House. Because I raced the New York City Triathlon for Covenant House one year. And raised money for them, $5,000 for their kids. So we were

bringing some kids into crunch with him and he's he's like you know legitimate with everlast boxing he's like a legitimate trainer and we spent so much time on this kid and then he just fucked up and didn't come around and got caught up got some girl pregnant and then like started doing whatever and got locked up fighting with her you got put in rikers so you don't never know what's going to happen with these kids and it may be maybe one out of 20 of them is going to get through like you know look at my own nephew he's locked up now and i tried so much to help him and then his best friend matt he's like this six foot six black kid calls me uncle john when i would go to the boys home and take them out because they would have no parents during the holidays they would be there by

themselves and i would take him out get them sneakers take them to the movies pizza parties so my nephew always made fun of this kid because he had a learning disability but I said yo you shouldn't be doing that shit man you need to help that kid you don't put that kid down so a lot of those kids three of those kids I know that i helped raped and murdered a girl on the block my nephew's locked up and now look at matt matt's married got an apartment and he graduated college so you never know which one is gonna do the right thing in life and i love this kid man this kid came to my book book party when you oh yeah i remember that that's matt yeah yeah yeah i remember that i mean so much of this is timing. And for a lot of people, like I say this all the time,

but you can't make somebody be willing to change. It's like the pain of their current circumstance has to outweigh the pain and fear of change. And that happens at different moments in time. And when that willingness intersects with someone who's delivering a message like you are, then magic can happen. But when you look at this system, whether it's Spofford or the offspring of Spofford with what it's like right now, you can roll in and drop the love bomb on these kids, but then you're gone. Without follow-up and some kind of accountability or long-term sort of connection with these kids.

Like what is the prognosis? How do you truly solve this on a systemic level? Yeah, like I just think you just have to – you know, it's like – what does it say in the Bhagavad Gita? You have a right to the work, but you don't have a right to the result of the work. So you have to do it really selfless because when I first started doing it, when these kids were fucking up, it really got to me, man. And I'd be like, you know what? You can't take that shit home. It's like trying to help people get sober.

You just put the message out and you can't. I would watch how the people that worked at these places would interact with the kids and it's like they have to deal with this all day and then go home to their own family and they numb out you can't blame you have to stay aloof a bit you know but you know you it's you really have to just I said, it's about planting that seed and showing them, like, I came from way worse circumstances than a lot of you guys. And I've made something out of myself because I never gave up. It's the last thing I say in Evolution of a Cro-Magnon is the one bit of advice I have is to develop, you know,

the attitude of the warrior to is to develop, you know, the attitude of the warrior to never give up, you know. And that's why I do Ironman. I'm not great at it or anything, but it just teaches you not to quit, you know. It's a mindset, you know. Aren't you putting together some book that's based on your favorite slogan, PMA, Positive Mental Attitude? Are you working on that now, or what's going on? We wanted to sell that book, and my literary agent, Dan Kirshen at ICM, he kind of thought it wasn't a strong enough book for him to sell. But if we used it as how i beat addiction and include it in this book that i'm doing then that's a book that he i see so that's getting folded into that

yeah it got folded into the mix as like you know like this is the steps i took right to to get uh you know where i am and and uh still have a long way to go you know it's right uh, you know, where I am and, and, and, uh, still have a long way to go, you know, it's. Right. And, but, you know, you're this, you know, you're a vegan warrior, you know, spreading the plant-based message, you know, and you got a unique voice and perspective on it that I don't think, you know, that there aren't too many other people that are coming from your, you know, your place that are, that are that are kind of uh spouting the

message that you're putting out there i mean the frequency you know taps into a very specific kind of person yeah i mean i mean i've had everybody from bikers i helped this one hell's angel in the city and some like for a like my friend who's like he became a vegan but he's like one of the world's fucking most sought after bodyguards a muay thai fighter this australian guy yeah he protects um calvin harris uh-huh but he's a fucking he's in it like we gelled from the minute like the minute i met that motherfucker on on this uh european uh on this austral Australian tour called, it's like 50,000 people a day. It was called the, shit, I forget what the fuck it was. Some big music festival.

Yeah, it's this tour that goes, and he loved the Cro-Mags from when he lived in England. And then he asked to kind of road manage us and Biohazard and another band and then he i was training for my first triathlon the iron man so i was getting up early every day and gavin um from from bush rostale yeah was in the gym uh every day too like and uh so and and uh he was watching you know ian was watching me run and do it he's like yo what the fuck are you like how are you doing this shit and then going on stage and chromag

shows it's like running a fucking half marathon it's brutal it's like an mma fight and then i was like yo i like how you do it in like your shorts and your running shoes, too. Well, that's just so I can move. Because if you wear long pants, it's like, forget it. My shit sweats the fuck through. But Ian was like, I gave him a copy of Meat is for Pussies. And I said, read this. And then he kept asking.

By the end of the tour, he went vegan. And now he's like this fucking 240 pound beast. He's started you know picking up muay thai again and he's got a pretty amazing story too like he was a bodyguard for this the biggest gangster in fucking england and they did the rivals tried to murder him and you know so it's it's those types of people I really you know like I've had dudes write me from prison and like not love this yeah

we have that great story you told it before on the podcast about the firefighter who like stopped you on the street I never read about it before he's like yo

he wrote me this thing I'm a fucking the biggest fucking pussy ever like you know like even your friend Harrison I seen him cause he went to eat at...

Oh, Harrison, the skateboarder. Yeah, he went to eat by Chloe. Oh, did he go with you last night? He showed up over there with his skater friend. First of all, let's just break that down. Harrison, he's 16 years old. He lives in the city here. He's an ultra-distant skateboarder.

Crazy. So he does these events where he goes uh to these nascar tracks and they have these competitions how far can you skateboard in 24 hours without stopping without stopping so i think he's gone 268 miles or something like that and the world record beat him did 280. right and i think before this most recent event the world record was like 286. Somebody took it up to 308. But those guys are like 32 and he's 16.

He's 16 years old. So he's a cool kid. He's vegan. I met him about a year and a half ago. He showed up at a fun run that I did here in New York City. And I've been following him online. He's just a little vegan activist, athlete, kid. He's got tons of energy. He came to the event last night. And that's funny that he showed up for dinner last night yeah but he he went to chloe's after and i was like

yo did you read my book he's like yeah i my i loved it and my father loved it but my sister didn't like it she's like why does he have to use that kind of like degrade women like blah blah blah but it you know listen like the people that i'm talking to and and that i'm trying to get through to vegan feminists ain't flipping them so like i've had them attack me and don't tell people don't buy the book listen i've been doing this shit way longer than these motherfuckers have been alive for the most part. And if you judge something by the result, look how many people that book has helped with the certain vernacular that's, you know. Yeah, it's a very specific audience that you're going for. They're not going to hear it from, they're not going to read Skinny Bitch. They're not going to watch Forks Over Knives.

They're not going to, you know. Skinny Bastard. Right. It's the exact opposite. They don't want to be a skinny. Yeah, exactly. I mean, seriously, I've gotten thousands and thousands of emails from dudes that were like, nobody else ever got through to me.

And the odd part is, chicks that got an open mind, they bought the book for their boyfriends because they were like, you know, the women are way more up on shit than the men. You go to yoga spots, you go to the vegan spots, the raw food spots. It's mostly chicks. The dudes need to catch up, man. So as a last ditch thing they bought this book and their fucking men changed right so i don't i'll take the criticism because i know that

the book's helping people like every day i get five ten letters emails or whatever hit me up instagram and i know you you gotta we gotta wrap it up here in a minute because i know you got to go to acupuncture but but for somebody who's listening who's uh all right cool so for somebody who's listening who's you know perhaps not vegan they're they're dancing around the edges of it like you know what's the message like what you know what do you what are you advocating specifically like you know what i tell people here? And I'll tell you, I was hanging out with Chris Garver from Miami Inc., right? So his mother started taking up meditation. So they went to this Buddhist temple in Korea, in South Korea.

And Chris's father said to the monk, why should I meditate? And the monk goes, you meditate for one month. And if you don't like it after one month, never meditate again. Well, guess what? The father's been meditating ever since. So that's the same thing I say. Get off the processed food, get off the GMOs, get off the dairy, get off the poison, start eating right, exercising, exercising have that pma do your meditation do whatever your spiritual practice is and after a month if you don't feel amazing go back to eating fucking snossages what the fuck you want what do you want me to tell you but i can guarantee you like all these dudes with health problems come on like look at the documentaries

forks over knives all these movies that are coming out on health and people reversing like cancer and all kinds of shit by the the food that we're being fed is when you guys talked about this a lot last night it's poison it's it's pure fucking poison and you know the pharmaceutical companies have a hand in putting this poison out there because they're capitalizing off of you getting sick so it's like you know end the insanity like remember susan powers the crazy workout chick with the blonde spiky hair oh yeah yeah insanity that's like that's what i tell motherfuckers i'm like yo get off the fucking wheel man like get off of that ride that they got you on man it's i think most i saw some statistic that like most adult americans uh or or the average adult american is on like something

like four to six medications there's a great book called Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher. And she just, she was a big time pharmaceutical executive with Pfizer and these other companies. And she just fucking, her niece, I think, passed away or something from a reaction from one of the drugs that got recalled.

And then she's like, we're doing this to fucking millions of people so how the fuck does a drug get approved by the fda and then get recalled because it's killing people if it's really safe so she said straight up like the the goal of the drug companies is to get everybody on medication from the moment they leave the womb to the moment they go into the grave. That's their goal. They're the biggest things, pharmaceutical companies, most powerful things,

traded on Wall Street, just like the prisons. It's a business. They want you sick. They go out and they're destroying, like, you know, they just banned, like, the oil from, I just was reading today like the cannabis oil uh yeah i mean i i don't i don't take that stuff but it's been proven to help kids with seizures and and this one family um gave their kids cannabis oil and the kid was having like 30 seizures a day and it stopped the seizures completely

so there's benefits and alternative medicine has a lot of benefits too you know herbs and stuff like that and and it's just totally shunned but i i believe that if you eat a real healthy diet and you take preventative measures too uh which i think is important. I drink wheatgrass every day. I do all this stuff to detoxify my system because I live in New York. I think you have a good chance. I mean, look, I'm turning 54 in a couple of months, and I'm out there crushing it, you know, and everybody could be doing that. I'm not a special case.

I just happened to invest in my health you know 36 years ago but it's been a roller coaster too like i said during that time i did crack i was fucking crazy i did pills i was drinking i like you know but you can't never give up no matter what you go through you have to keep keep keep the fight going and um you know you guys talked about a lot of positive stuff you had the doctor up there and and it's a pill society there's a pill for everything but where's the pill for the fucking cure well on that tip uh i know a guy who's very very high up in the fast food business. He's a CEO of a major freaking organization, which I will not name.

But I know that he was telling me that there's like a, I don't know what it is, like a convention or something, some kind of cabal where like these companies get together, you know, the fast food industry, you know, it's like a convention or what have you. And this event had just occurred and he was saying like the basic marching orders coming out of that event

and, you know, going forward for this business is basically, you know, in the wake of responding to this upsurge, this wave of like interest in healthy eating and organic and all of that, like how are they going to survive and their mantra is basically it was something like i'm going to butcher it but it was something like defend deny delay diffuse you know something like that like it's it's like

it's like a it's a page right out of the tobacco industry playbook or you know and not too not too distinct or dissimilar from the pharmaceutical industry yeah i mean it's like really dude you needed to put cheese inside the fucking crust really that's necessary well listen now they have well they have a choice they have a john they have a choice they can either go healthier healthier and put a kale salad on the menu at McDonald's, or they can double down and go in the other direction and just make it the nastiest, most unhealthy. What is it, Taco Bell? They're putting Doritos in their burritos.

Did you see the Pizza Hut pizza? It's the fucking hot dog in the bun. It's the crust. So you can break that shit off and and have a have a have a so you don't have to have a franken hot dogs or pizza you can have oh have it your way you know this shit is crazy man like it's just fucking insane and and uh even like the healthy alternatives that they do try to offer they're loading this shit down with dairy there's chicken in there it's like they're just never gonna

fucking stop you know but like i say we have the like i said in meetings for pussies we have ultimate power and that power comes in where we choose to spend our dollar like what are you putting in your fucking cart what are you what are you giving your kids if you care about your children you better start and like you know look at the obesity rates heart disease showing up in eight-year-olds cholesterol high blood pressure like that's not normal like you if you go like i travel all the time like you do, man, go through the airports in the Midwest. Holy fucking shit. It's like a new breed of people.

There's people in their 30s that are in wheelchairs. We played punk rock bowling two years ago. What's that? It's in Vegas. And it's this punk rock festival that takes over Vegas for like three days. We played to like a thousand people in a club. But it's like you walk into those fucking casinos and there's dudes hooked up to oxygen tanks in their wheelchairs.

And they've fucking got drinks in the front. They got their cigarettes. And they're fucking hitting the one-arm fucking bandits non-stop gambling eating the shittiest fucking food it's like this country at that point they're just a battery for fueling the system yeah status quo it's like it it's it's madness and uh you know that's why i think it's up to each of us to to get the message out and try to help people. And for me, the first real, you know, what sparked all the change in my life was when I changed my diet. Everything followed from there and awareness opened up.

I started getting into other stuff. You know, I was around like the Bad Brain Sound Man, J.W. R.I.P. J., love you. He was a raw foodist and hit me to that. And Victorius Kovinskis, I saw him speak. And, like, all these guys from Hippocrates and Wigmore. And then the meditation. I worked at Integral Yoga's health food store, got free yoga classes.

So when you take that first step in the journey, man, the universe just responds with like unlimited mercy to bring you down your path. And that's what I try to tell people. It's up to us to take those first steps. And you go through this clearing stage when you first go vegan and all this stuff. There is the temptations. You know, I slipped up in the beginning, but I didn't give up. That's the difference. Slipping up and giving up is two different principles. We're all going to get knocked on our ass in life. That's what life is about. But we have to learn from it. First class intelligence, you know, you hear and you never and you change and never go back.

Second class, you hear, you got to keep getting kicked, and then eventually you wake the fuck up. And then third class is most of what America's doing, man. They're getting fucking disease. They're getting pills, and they keep going back to the fucking whore with the venereal disease and not using a condom. It's like you're just constantly asking for fucking trouble that's that's the analogy that i kind of tell people so it's like yeah people want to have it all figured out before they start yeah you know and the truth is the answers come in the doing you have to take the lead it's in the process and i you know i said

it in finding ultra it's like when you when you take that leap and you and and you're willing you have the willingness to move forward and you have that faith, the universe – if you're on the right path, the universe will conspire to support you. And that has been proven like countless times in my life and I see it happening in friends of mine's lives all the time. And that's not something that can be factually established in a rational sense. That's not something that can be factually established, you know, in a rational sense. I mean, we really need warriors, too, man, to go against, like you said, the status quo and what the fuck is going on. Because, you know, I mean, look at Fife from fucking Tribe Called Quest. He just died. He's been battling type 1 diabetes, which he got in 1990 because of his diet and wouldn't stop with the bad food. And he just

passed away how many fucking people do we gotta lose even family members and everything else and the information is being is being fucking it's like you guys said last night the information is being withheld from us for obvious reasons you know there's companies that stand to lose billions and billions of dollars if this information gets out but you know like i said in my book let those motherfuckers go make organic veggie burgers fuck them you know they're killing people you know like let the drug companies get into something else man you know all right but to play devil's advocate that's all fine and well but there's no hopeful whole foods where all fine and well but there's no hopeful whole foods where i live and even if there was i can't afford it i live in a food desert

you know i'm on minimum wage or i don't have time i got a bunch of kids no one else in my family wants to eat this way like how do you tackle that how do i tackle it i mean first of all the subject came up last night like you know isn't isn't this lifestyle elitist? And David Carter, the 300-pound vegan NFL player, he's like, yeah, it kind of is. It doesn't have to be that way, but culturally that's the perception of it. And there is an aspect of this lifestyle that is undeniably a one-percenter way of life. Yeah, but then you get a lot of— And you're a guy, like, you don't live in Westchester. You still live right off 2nd Avenue.

And I live in New York, and more and more, I'm seeing African-American and Spanish people getting hip to this shit and changing. Now, if you go eating at raw foods places where a fucking appetizer is $23, who the fuck can afford that? But even on your YouTube channel, like I said, you did vegan on $ 20 a day and you

fucking killed it when 25 25 when you went to you know when you went to trader joe's and and and and you know did more you have you know even if you go to my website pure pma.com i have a you can download this book for five bucks it's it's uh it's like a small book and it's it's it's it's uh how to how to do healthy on the cheap and i give you all the ways man there's so many different ways joining a co-op shopping at the you know uh at the at the farmer's markets listen when if there's a will there's a way that's a's a famous saying, and I believe it 100% to be true. Yeah, if you commit, you're going to figure it out. If you commit, you're going to figure it out.

We're figuring out how to fucking inject cheese in a fucking crust and send motherfuckers into space. We can't figure out how to... We can figure out anything if we adapt ourselves and apply ourselves to it. But the problem is, you know, with the pharmaceuticals and everything else, it's like, you know, there's a reason there is no cure for cancer. Because cancer drugs make hundreds of billions of dollars. This guy got in an argument with me because what I posted the other day on Instagram, I posted this, over 128,000 people die from prescription drugs in America every year.

If ISIS killed that many people, there would be 24-7 media coverage. So all these people were like, look at what cancer... I'm like, cancer drugs have fucking done shit. It's designed to keep you sick. They're not trying to cure cancer. Well, there are some drugs that are helping people. I know people that...

Listen, I don't need... We got problems, but Western medicine's pretty good when you have an acute condition yeah you know there are that doesn't mean that there aren't sort of economic you know pressures at play that that you know speak to what you're trying to say listen if i get you know what like i've had things where i've had to take you know western medicine and it and it you know, Western medicine, and it, you know, it worked. But, like I said, if you read Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher,

they're making fucking conditions up to keep people hooked on. Oh, restless leg syndrome and all that. I just saw an ad the other day. I think I've said this on the podcast before, but it was an ad for a pill that's supposed to resolve your constipation problem that happens when you're taking opioids. So when you're taking opiates, like if you're on Vicodin or Oxy all the time for quote-unquote pain, you can't go to the bathroom, right? So you take this other pill so you can go to the bathroom. But it's like it doesn't address the fact that perhaps you're an opiate addict.

It's the domino effect. It's one thing. Look look like my friend had high cholesterol he took these cholesterol low in drugs which fucked with the liver enzymes in his liver then he had to take fucking pills for that then that did something else once they get you in that fucking they're not letting you go when they get you in their grip, that's it. And it's the same thing now. If your behavioral meds for depression don't work, take it with this other pill. It's like, motherfucker, go out and do some running. Go do some yoga. Go fucking do some positive shit that's going to give you PMA.

The answer ain't in no motherfucking pill. Now, I mean, I've been around nut houses. And I know people have deep there are people with psychological problems but if you read this chick's book man a lot of that shit those conditions are made up so that they can sell the drug and you know like i mean i'm not gonna say i haven't taken um you know prescription meds in the last 36 years not for no depression and stuff like that but for a condition one year i had this bronchial infection and it was it turned into like pneumonia and if i didn't take what they were offering sure you know yeah i could have died

so i'm like all right i ain't gonna fucking die i tried every herb under the sun it didn't work so there are some benefits to some of the Western medicine on some conditions. But, dude, the shit that they're doing is out of fucking control. If you turn on the news from 5 o'clock on all fucking night, it's nothing but drug commercials. Yeah, that's amazing. You know, like you guys talked about erectile dysfunction. Motherfuckers, stop eating greasy fucking snossages in the morning and your fucking junk will work. Like, you know, like they're doing all of this nonsense and then

they just want to give you a pill to treat the symptoms. But really the whole thing is, you know, is the cure. And you're a shining example, man. Look at where you came from. You told your story last night. 50 pounds overweight, had a hard thing going up the stairs. You know, so, and look where I came from. Look at all these guys. Even David Carter, man. What did he say?

I had old man diseases. He had arthritis. He had all sorts of problems. High cholesterol, high blood pressure, 22 years old. You know? It's like they're doing it to everybody. So, you guys are the example. Somebody asked you how do we help people and what was your answer last night.

I try to be the example. Example is better than precept. Nobody wants to fucking hear shit from some armchair philosopher talking shit like they're looking to see if you're going to be a vegan athlete get out there and kick fucking ass get out there and do shit get out there and help people get out there and be the shining example that's killing it crushing it that's why uh you know these guys from the ufc now more and more of them are going fucking vegan. And just the whole movement is because.

Yeah, Men's Journal just read an article. Yeah, I got it. Nick Diaz and Nate, you know, and James Wilkes, they mentioned, who has a film coming out on vegan plant-based athletes. The UFC fighter, James. Great guy. But, you know, be the example, man. Get out there and live your life and do good to help other people.

And one by one, man, it's a grassroots movement, like you said, and that's how we're going to change shit, you know, is help everybody we meet, man. Help them out. Guide them. Get them off the poison. get them working on themselves spiritually. And, you know, I just, one last thing I'll read you. There was a magazine called Satya, which means the mode of goodness.

You know, and it was this Vedic magazine and plant-based and all the health food stores. And so I read this article about this this black cat and he was fucking locked up i they didn't say what he did but he's doing a long bit in like one of the worst prisons and he got some buddhist books in prison and became a buddhist and went vegan and he said you know what the word the sad part about my path is my path but there's a lot of african-american and spanish cats out there that they need this knowledge and if i would have got this knowledge out on the street i wouldn't be where i am right now because he did a complete 180 so that's the way i kind of look at it like you know we can head off what's going on, but we really have to work hard to do it.

And it's a thankless task. You're going to have people fuck you, who the fuck are you telling me? You're going to get the fucking meatheads. I practice the four agreements, man. I don't take it personal. I try to, but sometimes i tell them to go fuck themselves but you know well listen you're uh you're an incredible example of service i aspire to your level of service uh you do a lot of stuff behind the scenes that you don't talk

about um and uh it's it's incredible to watch i'm honored to be your friend. Same here, bro. I love you, buddy, man. Thank you so much. Love you too, man. We got a real bromance going, bro. We do, dude. And I have to thank you, man, because so many people have written me and got my book and watched my Vice video thing on Vice Ironman. If you Google Vice vegan Ironman, it comes up. But a lot of people got hit.

And the juicing and blending one on Vice. Dude, that's a class but like a lot of people got the uh the juicing and blending one on vice dude that's a class that i send that to people all the time i'm like this is the best smoothie video you will ever see and you know what the motherfuckers like had a whole scripted shit for me i said motherfucker put that camera on stand over there and shut up i got this if there's one thing i can do is this i this. I think I can handle it. But anyway, I want to thank you, too, because this podcast is one of the best ones out there. And even to be on it, I'm honored, man. I don't take it for granted. And I've come in touch with so many amazing stories of other individuals off your podcast, too.

And just what you're doing man it's it's it's really changing lives man you know i appreciate that man so when i would say i would say eight out of ten people that come up and were like yo i heard about you i found out about your stuff it was through you and and the podcast i love that man yeah it's great all right so when you come out to LA, are you going to come out to my house and ride bikes? Yes. I'm going to have you kill me up them climbs.

All right, let's do it, dude. All right. All right, buddy. So I'm going to stay, uh, John,

pick up his books. Uh, me just for pussies. I wrote the forward to that. It's a great book. It's an easy read. It's a fun read. He makes me look stupid.

Evolution of a Crow Magnet and, uh, pure PMA.com is the website. And at John Joseph. No, at JJ Cro-Mag on Twitter and John Joseph Cro-Mag on Instagram. Right on. I always post funny stuff. All right.

Peace. Plants. That just like blew my hair back. I hope you guys enjoyed that. How amazing is that guy? Oh my Lord. Anyway, I hope you guys dug on John Joseph. I just love it. I love everything about that guy.

I can't wait to have him on again. Make a point to visit the show notes on the episode page for this episode at richroll.com. Lots of links and resources to take your edification beyond the earbuds, learn a little bit more about John. And once again, you can also listen to the other episodes that I've done with him.

Links to all of that up on the episode page. If you haven't already subscribed to my YouTube channel, make a point of doing that. For all your plant power and RRP swag and merch needs, visit richroll.com. We've got t-shirts, we've got swag, we've got stickers, we've got signed copies of Finding Ultra on Plant Power Way. I'll sign those books, I'll write on it, whatever you want me to write on it. We've got fine art prints, we've got all kinds of other cool stuff as well. Questions for future Q&A podcasts, I am going to do a Q&A pretty soon

coming up. Traditionally, I've been telling people to send us an email at info at richroll.com, but I got a different idea here. Instead of doing that, go to Reddit. There is a subreddit underneath my name, which I discovered. I did not create it. I don't know who created it. It exists. It's sitting up there on Reddit, completely dormant. No one's ever used it. I don't know who created it. It exists. It's sitting up there on Reddit, completely dormant. No one's ever used it. And I thought that could be a better way to organize questions. They could be upvoted and the questions that people really want me to address and talk about will sort of rise to the top. And that way I can focus on answering questions that seem to be more popular than others. So how do you leave a question there? Go to reddit.com, R-E-D-D-I-T.com forward slash R forward slash richroll. Reddit.com forward slash R forward slash richroll. Also, I got a new

engineer, audio engineer on the case that I began working with. His name is Jason Camiolo. He came on board starting last week for the Jasmine Singer episode. He did a great job on that episode. I'm sure you could tell the audio quality was much better last week than it has been historically when I was doing it myself. So give him a shout out on Twitter at Jason Camiolo, C-A-M-I-O-L-O, and tell him that you appreciate the work that he's doing. I'm excited to have him on board so that I don't have to do it anymore. Also, shout out to Sean Patterson for help on the graphics, Chris Swan for production assistance, and theme music, of course, by Anilema, my boy's band.

Thanks for all the support, you guys, to cap it off, to end this episode. If there's one thing that inspires me most about John Joseph, it's his commitment to service. That's what he's all about. And it's my opinion that when your focus is on what you can do to give rather than get, your life improves like 10x or 50x. So the question I have for you guys is how are you of service in your life? What are you doing to serve?

How can you better serve? Because we all have something to give. So I want everybody to think about what that is for you and begin to take steps to express it, to put it into action in your life. Have a great week, everybody. Love you guys. Talk to you soon. Peace. Plants. talk to you soon peace plants Thank you.