The Rich Roll Podcast - John Lewis + John Salley Are Black In America

Episode Date: June 29, 2020

Today I reconnect with my friends John Salley & John Lewis to discuss the black experience, race in America, food injustice, and where we go from here. A legit living legend, John Salley is the first basketball player in history to win four NBA championships with three different teams -- the Pistons, Bulls & Lakers -- in three different decades. A long-time vegan, Salley is also a passionate animal rights and healthy nutrition advocate (which we discussed in RRP 180). In addition, he’s an absolutely relentless entrepreneur, involved in a myriad of enterprises from vegan wine to cannabis. A prominent, ultra-positive voice in the vegan movement, John Lewis -- aka The Badass Vegan -- is a public speaker, personal trainer, and entrepreneur who can now add filmmaker to the resume. In partnership with mutual friend Keegan Kuhn (RRP 91, 176, 278, & 397), the co-director behind Cowspiracy, What The Health, and Running For Good, John is inching towards completion of They’re Trying To Kill Us -- a powerful upcoming documentary that examines the impact of food & health injustice on disenfranchised African American communities (a subject I first explored with John in RRP 260). Today we break bread. Black Lives Matter. Police misconduct. The pernicious nature of systemic racism. How religious institutions embed white supremacy. We also discuss the importance of black leadership and entrepreneurship. And we close with thoughts on food injustice -- how our broken food system negatively and disproportionately impacts communities of color. But most of all, this is a conversation about what is necessary to make things right. What black and brown communities need from white allies. And the ways in which we can grow, change, and do better -- together. Note: Check out the recently released and incredibly compelling trailer for They're Trying To Kill Us. Then visit the film's Indiegogo campaign to learn how you can support the film. Language Advisory: This one is packed with expletives, so pop on the earbuds if you got kiddos in the backseat. Finally, I suspect this will be an uncomfortable conversation for some; maybe for many. I invite you to listen or watch with an open mind and heart.  Notwithstanding, these guys are a total blast. I love them both. I'm grateful for their friendship -- and their honesty. The visually inclined can watch our conversation on YouTube. And as always, the audio version streams wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.   Strap in. Peace + Plants, Rich

You have to understand that everybody has to speak up. When you hear something racist, you see something racist, speak up about it. I think people are too uncomfortable with being shunned. Like, no, you're not going to be liked by everybody. But if somebody's going to hate you, let them hate you for doing the right thing. You know, there's a lot of people like, I know that's wrong over there, but I'm not going to say anything because my family and friends might not talk to me. All right, if those people don't want to talk to you for doing the right thing, that's showing you their character.

Black folks need to say enough is enough. And white folks need to say, what do you need? That's change. Being pro-black is not anti-white. Yeah, we don't hate white people. But we just want police brutality fixed. We just want cops to stop killing us. The thing that everybody is rioting

and protesting is not I'm black, you're white. What we're protesting is police brutality. It's time to end it, and the only way to end it is together. That's John Lewis and John Sally. This week,

on the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. First, let's acknowledge the awesome organizations that make this show possible. Welcome. First, let's acknowledge the awesome organizations that make this show possible. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety.

And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem, Thank you. to support and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type,

you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. really do, and they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Okay, my guests today are my good friends,

John Lewis and John Sally. Mr. Sally is a straight up legend. The first basketball player in NBA history to win four championships with three different teams, the Pistons, the Bulls, and the Lakers in three different decades. How about that? Since retiring in 2000, John has been a consistent presence on television and radio,

appearing on countless programs and even creating many of his own shows over the years. He's also a longtime vegan, a passionate animal rights and healthy nutrition advocate for many years, something that we discussed at length in his first appearance on the podcast back in 2015. That was episode 180. John is also an absolutely relentless entrepreneur. He's got his hands in more businesses than I can count from vegan wine to cannabis. And his latest venture is Cafe

Organics, which is a brand new plant-based restaurant, which just opened last week, I believe, in San Bernardino. The intention being to put an end to the food deserts that plague the black and brown communities that reside there. John Lewis, aka The Badass Vegan, is a public speaker. He's a personal trainer.

He's also an entrepreneur, a longtime friend, just one of the friendliest, most positive personalities in the vegan movement who has taken a new career turn lately as a filmmaker, partnering up with our mutual friend, Keegan Kuhn, who you might know as the director behind Cowspiracy, What the Health, and Running for Good, on this powerful new documentary they're collaborating on called They're Trying to Kill Us, which takes a look at the impact of food and health injustice on disenfranchised African-American communities, which is also a subject I first explored with Mr. Lewis in our first podcast together back in 2016. That was episode 260. We're going to break it all down today. Black Lives Matter, the protests, police

misconduct, the nature of systemic racism, the role religious institutions play in embedding white supremacy, the importance of Black leadership and Black entrepreneurship, food injustice, of course, and what is required of all of us to make things right, including what Black and brown communities need from white allies so that we can grow, change, and do better together. I should say that the conversation about the movie, They're Trying to Kill Us, which takes place near the end of the podcast, was a bit briefer than I would have preferred, but I will definitely have John Lewis and Keegan Coon back on the show to discuss the documentary in detail upon its completion, which is near and promises to be quite powerful.

In the meantime, I encourage you to check out the incredibly compelling trailer for the documentary, which I posted on my Instagram page on, I believe, June 24th. And finally, this one, which is a bit all over the place at times. Both Johns are prone to tangents. Sally is Sally.

That's why we love him. It's first of all, packed with expletives. So pop on the earbuds if you've got kiddos in the backseat. And it's also provocative. It's a conversation I suspect might be uncomfortable for some, maybe for many. At the same time, these guys are a total blast. They're super fun.

I love them dearly, both of them. So strap in and prepare for the testimony of John Lewis and John Sally. So why don't we just start with what's going on? Like, give me your take on where we're at right now. I really want to hear like your perspective on what you think is going on. I mean, right now it just feels like, it feels like we're at a spot where people realize that they have to use your voice now. And I mean, everybody, like're starting to see a team effort

to battle racism. We realize black people can't do it alone and white people have to speak up. And I'm starting to see that that's actually what's happening. But I want every white person out there that's helping or that's thinking about helping,

I want y'all to understand that there's probably not going to be any awards. there's not going to be any pat on the back there's not going to be a high five like you're doing it just because you know it's right and i think as long as they understand that you know because i see people like well i i went to this march it's like yeah that's great but there's a lot more going on um as far as everything that's going on i think it's been going on it's just getting revealed yeah this is not anything new i mean not to call him out but john's older than me so i'm sure he's seen more than me and just from like i grew up in ferguson like we talked about before yeah i've seen worse almost, you know?

So it's just like, it's time to end it. And the only way to end it is together. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there, look, those changes at the highest level politically require a certain level of will, right? And that will is a reflection of popular support. And I've never seen this level of popular support.

So it's about figuring out how to harness that and channel it in the right direction so that it doesn't just dissipate and then we're back to some version of normal. Because I think like what we don't wanna do is make the mistake of what happened with Ferguson. Like we talked about Ferguson last time, you growing up there and everything that happened there in 2014. And I think there was a sense that after that, there were going to be some changes and we didn't really see that, right?

This does feel different to me. I don't know if it does to you. No, definitely. I think there's an opportunity here. Tell me the truth, John. I know. I an opportunity here. Tell me the truth, John. I know. I'm sitting here. I told John before.

I said I'm going to be quiet most of the time. No, I don't want you to be quiet. My patience is up. I'm 56 years old. So in 1964, the Civil Rights Act was passed. So if you were born before 1964, black folks had no civil rights. And we still had to fight to the point

where Martin Luther King got killed four years later and then the riots. Then 47 days after the riots, the Civil Rights Act was enacted. That's when it took effect. It got to go literally the only way this country or most people have ever, ever, ever dealt with things is when it hurt them in their pocket. Do I think it's the right thing to do? No, I don't think anybody's stuff should be burned down. I don't

think anybody should be in this situation. But you know what? From what it seems like, it seems like it's a lot of talk. And it does not feel real. So the change doesn't have to come, like John said, from both sides. The change, the reason what he means by the change has got to come from both sides is black folks need to say enough is enough and white folks need to say what do you need? That's change. They can't

help us. White folks can't help us. We got to help ourselves and we got to do it this way, period. Like, you know, someone said, we ain't got no money. We do. We got to now crowdfund and source to ourselves. We now have to build things that help us as a community.

We now have to separate. We got to take a second. We got to step away. Integration was at this point. We love the allies. But we as black folk got to step away. Got to step away and figure out which one of us are like Candace Owens and which one of us are like Killer Mike. Yeah.

That's the difference. And this is the problem. When you separate, everybody stays separate. But we have to pick a side. We have to either say we're going to go either say, we're going to go this way, or we're going to go that way. And we have to make a decision that those on this side raise their ways, and those on this side raise theirs. Before, we try to mirror, we try to put it together. And what we got was a Vietnam War and drugs in our community. I was 10.

So we got to change that look. I think we got to be, we got to act like Americans when we didn't, when they no longer wanted to be subjects of Great Britain. And Malcolm X said, you know, if you talk about a revolution, there's nothing nice about it. There's nothing cute about it. And if it doesn't, if it doesn't, we're going to go back to the normalcy. And the normalcy was wrong. And that's why when you hear, you know, Make America Great Again, we're like, when the fuck was it great for us? Like, you know, like we had some moments some moments you know like put it this way for people out there that listen when they when you when your

rebuttal is black people had a bad had a good they had michael jordan or they had barack obama if you could only think of five people as the barometer of we had a good. That's not good. You know what I'm saying? And people do that all the time. Everyone knows it wasn't good. The deal is what we're going to do. Like, do we send money to the NCAA? NAACP. NAACP.

Same two. Same people. I mean, right. I'm sorry. NAACP. Do we send the money to Black Lives Matter? Right, right. What happens do we send the money to Black Lives Matter? What happens when you send the money there? When they put this in, are we going to

hear corruption and this guy bought Bentley and three houses? What are we going to hear? What is going to be the move? Do we send it to Minister Farrakhan? Do we send it to Al Sharpton? Do we send it to Minister Farrakhan? Do we send it to Al Sharpton? Do we send it to Dr. Umar Johnson? We literally need leadership. One thought process, I would say.

And I don't know if it needs to be led by a religious fraction or not. if it needs to be led by a religious fraction or not. I was going to post something the other day. And Rich, this is the deal. I'm on this show because John asked me to be on. And I said, I told him. Did you hear reluctantly? No. No, no, no.

Because I'm angry. And because I'm enraged. But, you know, me being a Buddhist, you don't ever react in anger. But I got a 17-year-old daughter and 23-year-old daughter who say to me, how'd you let it get this far? Like I was in charge. But then I'm like, yeah, how did I?

Why did I? I posted on my post. It said, know your position. Make your choice. Now, and I was literally to as many black folks that, because they knew what it was, like, you're going to play the back, you're going to play the front, you're going to sit in the house, you're going to be in the field. All those different words came about. And I was like, we have to literally unlearn everything. If we don't unlearn it, we're going to start acting like my boy Chaminade.

Chalamet said he had a book called Black Privilege. And people were like, what are you talking about? And he was like, you got to think about it. He was like, sometimes we act in a certain way as if we're on this side looking at black people like, what the hell? When we supposed to be looking at ourselves like, what the hell? So I just said, pick exactly what position you want to be in history. Do you want to spark it? That's why I decided to open up my own stuff. We're going to things and I'm making everybody else money posting their stuff. And I was like, if I don't show these cats, especially nowadays, financial- Freedom and literacy. Yeah, and growth and investing into my own thoughts. And this is why no one else is going to

do it. Yeah. Well, you're, I mean, both you do it yeah well you're I mean both you guys are black business owners I mean you got a million businesses yeah right I mean I can't keep track it seems to change a lot

I have to I have to call John up sometimes like hey man is this really you like okay you know it's called

the 72 means of income yeah yeah yeah diversify yeah you gotta like literally the 72 names of God in Hebrew so means of income. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Diversify. Yeah. You got to have like literally

the 72 names of God in Hebrew. So, if you can have 72 streams of income, not only help yourself, you're helping everyone associated.

So, I have seven right now. Uh-huh. You got it. Right. I've got the 60. I'm tired as hell, right? And you got, you have Vegan Smart, right?

Yeah, Vegan Smart. Badass Vegan as a corporation, too. And then the production company, Hunger for Justice. And that's something a lot of people don't realize. The black dollar, black consumers spend $1.2 trillion a year. How many black businesses are put up front to make that money? It's like you're spending and it's going all the way from your community or your people. Now it's like, oh, well, what if you invested that back into the community, back into black corporations?

And then other black corporations come about and it's a trickle effect. You know, that $1.2 trillion is a lot of money. That's a lot of baby shoes. You know what I'm saying? Right. It's not going back to the black community, though. So the spending is all going out. It's not coming back in.

So how do you catalyze entrepreneurship in your community? Well, we open up Planet Health in Compton, 546 West Compton. Is that your restaurant? Yeah. So it's a trip because it's a small restaurant part, but it was like a strip mall, and then it had like an empty lot next to it. So I got in touch with the guy, Moses, who was making the generators to make water out of the atmosphere.

the guy Moses who was making the generators to make water out of the atmosphere. And hopefully going to talk to Ron Finley again about putting a farmer's market there. And then we sell hair, coffee. There's a stage for people to talk and get their words out, learn things. That's cool. Small cafe. And then it's a clothing store, but with all stuff made in LA. So literally, we did that across the street from New Body.

Got to say that, New Era. Because we wanted just to take over Compton Avenue. I just had that mentality. And then I opened up Plant Organics Cafe O in San Bernardino in a brown neighborhood. So one in the black neighborhood and one in the brown neighborhood. And health and wellness. So it still fits with what we do, but I wanted to get rid of the, I wanted to make an oasis. I wanted to get rid of the lack of food and lack of knowledge and health in the black and brown community. Right. I want to get back to one thing you said earlier about leadership right now.

You know, what is different about this moment versus 64, MLK, you know, Malcolm X, is that there is no iconic leader at the moment for this. That leadership is distributed. And, you know, how does that impact this movement? Like both of you guys are amongst those leaders. You both have huge profiles. You got people who really care what you think. And I'm sure you take that responsibility seriously

and think long and hard about how you message to your respective communities. But what does leadership mean in this moment in Black Lives Matter? It means everything. I tell you because the way everybody is getting their information is literally the same way. It's not diverse. So all the information comes from television and Instagram.

television and Instagram. So you're not, you don't have a paper that had been, or you have a couple of papers, but none that we don't go and pick up the paper now and read it the same way. Things can be blocked on Facebook and on Instagram and YouTube. And those are the sources we get our information from. There's no, we have the paper in Inglewood, but it's not that everybody's running out to see what the news is. We're used to turning on CNN and believing that, used to turning on Fox and believing that. in that. So the problem with the leadership is who do we trust to be 100% on this side and never going to waver? And the only person that was like that was Colin Kaepernick. Colin Kaepernick put his neck on the shoulder like Muhammad Ali did, but he's not saying, hey, I want to be the leader of this movement. Right.

So the problem is we just have to find out where, you know, do you go after a celebrity? Do you listen to Dave Chappelle or do you check? Like, we don't know. Like, Dick Gregory quit being a comedian to be an activist. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just, but he's passed so it's like trying to figure out who and what side to move on because we have been

rich for light for a better word um we have been literally massaged into believing it's going to be okay. We believe it's going to be okay. We got to literally not feel that. And who, I don't know who we listen to. It's a big trust factor with that. Yeah. It's a big trust factor. Because this time we want to move away from it.

We want to get out of it you know I know I do is it because you gotta think about like there are so many people with ulterior motives

it's like so yeah maybe they might come in they might want to help they might want to do something but it's like but what's the ulterior motive and track records have shown

like it's not a big track record of good people right now. You know what I'm saying? On both sides. So it's like, who do we want to trust? And who wants to take that? Because, like, maybe three, four years ago, Kaepernick had that energy.

He wanted to do that. Now he's like, well, fuck y'all. Y'all didn't want to listen to me then. You don't want to listen to me then. Like, you know, I moved on because y'all didn't want to listen to me. It's kind of like that. Then who wants to be

torn down by the other side too? Because whoever is going to be that leader, it's going to be a mission for other people to go after them. The premise of Black Lives Matter, there's nothing corrupt about that. There's nothing. But there have been people out from day them. You know, like the premise of Black Lives Matter, there's nothing corrupt about that.

But there have been people out from day one. The money's going here. The leadership is this. You know, like the core of it is good. Of course you're going to get people that trickle in that aren't like 100% at the protest. They turn into looters and they they do riots it's like okay do you really think that the people of black lives matter is out there the ones that are literally starting the fires are doing this and that like well and i'm sure you get on top people

like well if black lives matter so much why do black people kill each other like do you think the people in black lives matter are the ones that's killing other black people like do you think like i got the answer for that too and i have to tell people because i know i sounded very strong when i first came on but being pro-black is not anti-white yeah you don't hate white people just no i i you know well there's a lot of moral confusion out there right now around that no i don't have that like literally uh i'm about to sound like a white guy no but my but my wife is half Caucasian, and some of my best friends are white. How dare you? It doesn't sound crazy the other way around.

But I literally don't. But I just want people to understand that it's not the O.J. trial. This is not the Rodney King. But the fact that we could even go back to that or how people were so separate, how separate the country was and how black people that didn't even know who O.J. was was on his side. That kind of stuff we got to get away from. That kind of stuff we got to get away from. And I'm glad that my daughter's age, different than ours, is they kind of see no color. How are they doing with all of this?

They're angry. My daughter, Giovanna, is 32. She's losing it. And I had to tell her, yo, chill. I had to say chill. And she was like, oh, I was like, yeah, for me, I was like, chill. I had to say chill. And she was like, oh, I was like, yeah, for me, I was like, chill. I was like, because you're transferring something else into this. Like, don't transfer.

You've got to be smart about how this gets done. But the one thing that I will say that I love the allies that are on our side, but we just want police brutality fixed. 100%. All the rest of that shit, we don't want a lot. We just want cops to stop killing us. I literally drive the whitest of white cars in the world. I drive a Prius. I did. How do you fit in that thing?

I drove a Prius and I still got pulled over. No, I drive a Tesla. And I'm driving. And it's even white. And it's white. I drive this car. And if I see a police officer, I still second look. Clean it up.

And I was like, what the hell? I'm 56. I'm still doing that. And you do. I still second look. And I just want that part to stop. Have you had gnarly encounters in the past? Yeah, when I was playing for the Miami Heat, It was 1994, 95.

So I'm hanging out with my brother, Michael, and I'm working for Toyota. So I get a Land Cruiser every 4,000 miles. But it's like the big period. This is when Toyota was throwing it out. So I had this big, beautiful white one. And I'm getting on the causeway. We're leaving the club. I don't drink or smoke.

And we're driving, and the cops pull us over on the causeway. We're leaving the club. I don't drink or smoke. And we're driving, and the cops pull us over on the causeway and tell me to cut the car off, drop the keys out of the door, what you call it, open the door with my right hand, get out, and walk backwards while their guns were drawn. Then they got me, turned me around, put my face down, put the lights on. Oh, it's John Sally. Yo, sorry, dude. We heard somebody stole a white truck like this on the beach. And so my brother was taking a shit. He was like, come on, we're cool, right? Yo, man, no biggie.

My brother was like, if I would've tripped, you would've shot me. If I would've stumbled going backwards, you would've shot me. And it never clicked until my brother told me that. And he was like, Sally, we're cool, right? I was like, mm-hmm. Got in the car.

We get 20 minutes from my house. You ain't say shit. I still couldn't say anything. I was like. Yeah. I was like, wow. But I got about six of them. But I got about six of them.

But I become so numb to it until I saw George Floyd. It was amazing. It was like those girls calling in on Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby. Like, oh. Yeah, I saw that before. Something clicked. And I was like, man, that could have been me. And the trip is I posted today a white dude going through the same thing.

So it wasn't just black. It was police brutality. And that's what I keep saying to people. They keep thinking I'm making it black. No, I'm making it police brutality. And my cousins, like a chief was a top captain. My other cousins are chief in the police, the fire department. My brother's a correctional officer. I get it, but they still overstepped their bounds. So when you hear defund the police? No. No, I said fund the police. So now we could know what they need to do

is if we got snitches in jail, we need snitches in the police department. Find out which ones believe that the Aryan race is stronger. Find them, tag them, get them out. What they're going to do is start their own police force. So now you got to watch it. So we watched Black Klansmen. We watched Mississippi burning. We saw all these things are imitating life. We watched it knowing what it was about, police brutality. Now we need to stop it. Yeah. I think it's obvious that we need a healthy police force. I don't know why anyone would be calling for the abolition of the police. I'm certainly not anti-cop,

but I think we need to figure out how to allocate those funds appropriately so they're going in the right direction. Give them more money. We gotta train these people better. They need to be able to manage their emotions under pressure. They need to be adequately trained with firearms. They need to know how to handle high conflict situations.

Like it just, if there's anything that comes out of all of these videos, it's that these people are ill-equipped for high stress situations. They should stand down. Racist or not, I'm not saying they're not racist. But even one, a lot of them need to know the law. We need to retrain police officers to know the law and know the rights. That's the deal. They don't know the rights. They believe they're above the law. Exactly. So when you don't know the rights of the citizen, you will violate them, right? Power is corrupting. Absolute power is absolutely corrupting. So if you

think I got the gun and the badge and you Eddie Murphy this shit, yeah, who are you? I'm a nigga with a badge, right? That means I get the right to kick your ass whenever I feel like it. Well, that is a mentality. It wasn't just Eddie doing it in the movie. That's a mentality. And I said, when we know that the thing that everybody is rioting and protesting is not, I'm black, you're white.

It sounds like it. But what we're protesting is police brutality. Period. And they need to know that it's consequences to their actions. Right now, like you said, with them thinking they're above the law,

just like, yeah, I can whoop your ass. There's nothing wrong with that. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the mentality right now. It's like, if I, anybody, if they find out they can do something, and then later on they realize, oh, well, nothing's going to happen to me? Their morality,

their paradigm shifts for them. Like, well, I know this is wrong, but I get away with it every day. And layer on top of that, the fact that that opportunity is attractive for a certain person who gets into that field of work. Because of whatever trauma or abuse that person suffered in their life that makes that job sound appealing. They're going to do RoboCop. Was it RoboCop? Yeah, it was RoboCop. Yeah.

RoboCop's about to come, man. Then everybody's up Schitt's Creek. I'm sure you've had run-ins with the police too, right? Yeah. One case that always sticks out to me is that I was in college. I played college ball. I was going to a classmate's house to meet up with her. And they lived in a better neighborhood.

I lived in Ferguson. They lived in a better neighborhood. I'm riding over. I got this 9-8 Oldsmobile, if anybody ever, it's beat up. It's a hoopty, whatever. I'm driving and I noticed the cop get behind me. And mind you, I'm still looking for her house because I don't, I've never been in an area really.

So I am driving a little slow. And then he puts the lights on. I'm like, and automatically, like you say, like fear. Like, I remember just a segue. I remember I put out a post about three or four years ago and I was like, for everybody out here, I want you to answer. If you get pulled over, what's the first thought that goes in your mind? Most white people were like, oh, you know, maybe a ticket, this and that.

Most black people were like, I might fucking die. So that's a big shift for people to understand. Like, yeah, we might, even if I don't die, I'm probably going to end up with some kind of injury. That's for a ticket, whatever. So he's pulling me over. But I waited until I got more in front of her house because I always remember Rodney King. I'm like, I want witnesses. Whatever's about to happen to me, this is before cell phones had cameras it was like 90 97 something like that so i'm like all right so i get there but i i called her i'm like hey i'm outside

um the cops just pulled me over i'm just letting you know in case something happens so he comes up he's got his he he unflaps the gun he's got the he's got his hand on the gun and he's like uh what are you doing here that That's the first question. Like, I'm not allowed to be. I was like, oh, well, I'm meeting up with a classmate. We're about to do our paper together. My book bag is right here. Hey, don't move your arms.

My bad. I'm just showing you my book bag is right here. So now four of the cops have showed up by the time we keep getting our conversation going. He's like, why didn't you stop when I first turned the light on? I was like, well, I was nervous. I just want to make sure it was witnesses. He's like, no, you stop when the lights come on. I'm like, well, I was in the middle of the street too, so pull over.

And he gets my license registration, goes back to the car. I'm telling him, I'm still outside. I see her come outside on the porch her father was like a state official some kind so he comes out he's like hey what's going on they're like oh this guy he meets the description of the guy him and the car meet the description of the guy that just robbed a grocery store around the corner i'm like well damn like was he in a cut off t-shirt because i'm like i just can't play a ball like i'm not like you know like who who robs the store that's like so many stories though it's just gone terribly wrong and now mind you i'm i i am i'm a 20 year old guy

you know i'm not even i'm i'm nervous as hell you know like i and everybody's like oh if you just comply i'm like man when the fear kicks in you you're like, dude, I might die right now. You don't know what you're going to do. I'm sitting there waiting on everything to go through. Finally, they come back. Luckily, they stayed on the porch and waited. I think that literally made this whole story change. Finally, they gave me the papers back.

No, he's not the guy with the wound. They go. Come back to my classmate's father. He calls into the office or whatever because they just wanted to check. Like, was there a robbery? They're like, no, there hasn't been a robbery at any grocery store in that area in the last, like, five years. Just made it up. So they just made the shit up.

But I just didn't fit like I should have been in that neighborhood. Now, mind you, the classmate was black, too. But she has, like, a Lexus. And I'm riding around in the night. You know, like, it was just so... I'm telling you, like, I was nervous, like, the whole time. Like, the whole time. You was wearing a

cut-off t-shirt? Like, showing the stomach? No, stomach no I was like were you wearing a crop top yeah maybe you got pulled over for the crop top lime green

yeah well y'all working on dance steps oh man no it was like a basketball shirt so you know

but it like but it pisses you off afterwards like it's like why would you even fuck with somebody like that for no reason? I'm not saying there's not bad people out there.

So the guy, he saw the car. He's like, this is a tweaked ride this guy's got. He looks like he's black, lights up. Yeah. Yeah, he shouldn't be in his neighborhood. It's a beat up car. The car is beat the fuck up. So he's like, no, this car shouldn't be in this area.

What's going on? I'm like, but if I'm going to do something shady, I wouldn't be going slow. You wouldn't be creeping slow. Yeah, I wouldn't be creeping slow. Like, why would I creep around? Like, so it was just, but it's so many stories like that. I mean, I've had more run-ins myself, but it's like, and that's the messed up part is because you're kind of powerless.

So part is because you're kind of powerless. Because they have supposedly absolute power. And absolute power corrupts you. It makes you believe that anything other than you is lesser. White, black, purple. If we don't change the way that thought process is, Like the other day, excuse me, I forgot his name, but the brother got killed in the Wendy's parking lot in Atlanta.

Right. He's standing up having a conversation. Rayshard Brooks. Yeah. He's having a conversation. Yeah. He's tipsy. He doesn't know his rights.

He doesn't have to take the breath of lies to test. Next thing you know, he's wrestling. And then as I'm watching it, they go, well, look, this is when he turns around and points the stun gun. Well, he pointed a stun gun, and then the cop shot him with a real gun.

Real gun, right. So why, if, did he feel threatened? In the back. Did he feel threatened by a stun gun? Then he should have, well, he stole my stun gun, so the only other gun I had to shoot him with was that. It gets to a point where you got to stop giving excuses. It cannot, we cannot have any more excuses.

We can't have George Floyd, and since George Floyd, seven other people get murdered. Murdered. Murdered. We can't have it. There was the kid in Palmdale who they found hung and they're calling it a suicide too yeah like i can't keep up well we have to it's crazy that's the problem with the world you know paying attention to this so closely and a spotlight on police behavior that these kinds of things would happen. You got protests for police brutality

where police are being brutal against the people that are protesting. It's like, nobody sees this shit? And people are like, well, they were out there. It gets confused because you have looting and people- That has nothing to do with it. I know, but that's where the attention gets dispersed.

Yeah, but they're doing it to people that aren't looting. It's like, we all have the right to peacefully protest. Whether it's a knee in a football game, whether it's out on the street, whatever it is, we all have that right. And looting in every single riot. There's looting in every, that's why it has a name. And half the people that are looting have shit to do with the actual cause their opportunities like let's be honest yeah loot there's a difference between looting and rioting rioting is breaking some shit and tearing some shit up looting is walking out with louis vuitton that has nothing to do with george floyd like you got people walking out

with eight nike boxes that ain't got nothing to do with it depends if they were throwbacks though i'm just joking nordstrom at the grove yeah you know what i'm saying like that's that that's that has nothing to do with the and that's where i gotta say the white chick but i had did you ever see the one when the when the newscaster is saying yes well maybe she maybe she's an employee this is the funniest thing about the white chick. She was walking slow. You always see everybody else running, trying not to get caught. She was like, this shit fits. I love that kind of movie.

She was like, yeah, she's literally bringing it up to herself. I did see video of people walking down the street with bags and then lines of cops across the street doing nothing because they were focused on you know whatever else and just letting that go like yeah man yeah they could they can't do anything about it in the shirt there's another video where it's like three cops talking to a white lady while she's spray painting the building and they're oh you literally hear her say oh you should put george floyd's name up there, the cop tells her that. Like, they're not doing nothing. It's a white lady. They're not doing nothing to her.

Like, they don't say anything wrong. Those are allies. Those police officers. Yeah. Those are allies. We need them. And that's the thing. Like, people are opportunists.

There's another video of a lady, like, literally walking up. This guy's, like, trying to board up his store, and he's got the drill. And somebody caught the lady doing it. She runs up to the guy to ask if she'd take a picture with him. He hands her the drill. She's got the drill. Her husband takes a picture of her. They get back in the car and leave.

Yeah, it was a Benz, too. I saw that one. Yeah, it was a Benz. I'm like, wait. That was the most egregious one because it was so blatant. Like she literally gets out of the Benz, walks up, has to borrow the guy's drill, poses with it like she's helping. Gets the picture taken.

That's what I mean. She's like, who do we trust? Who do we trust? Like, who do we trust? Like, what's the direction? What is real? What is real? I don't know.

We have these incredibly powerful images and videos that are going viral. We're all consuming them. We're trying to make sense of what's happening. And that kind of butts up against this insane news cycle where we're not sure what's real and what isn't. It's all very disorienting just to find solid ground. Like, where are we standing?

And to continue on that idea of being an ally, allyship, like, how can, like, someone like myself be an effective ally? First thing I would ask you, Rich, is to check yourself. You have to check for your own, because we all have prejudices, right? Because we're American. We watch Archie Bunker. We watch Jeffersons. We watch Good Times.

We watch Sanford and Son. We watch Friends that had no black people until the second to last season. We watched Curb Review. to last season, we watched these shows that kind of structure our pop culture. So the first thing, you got to check yourself for your own inefficiencies or your own, like check who you are. And once you check who you are and you check your ego and you check where you believe you are, that's it. We watch each person to be as strong as that person can

possibly be. And if that person really wants to be allied, they got to make sure that they are okay with what they see too. Give an example a friend uh in miami and he was cool he was always with us and then this girl he liked started dating my brother and he said she's ruined i go what do you mean like he doesn't have a big penis like Like, don't believe the hype. She was like, no. He said, you know, I was like, he's like, no, she's ruined. Like, no other, like, cool white guy. No other white guy is going to want her after this. And I was like, whoa. So I had to check him.

I said, what do you mean by that? He didn't get it. He still to this day probably doesn't. Well, maybe now he does. But he didn't understand what he meant or what he was feeling. So that's why I say check yourself. I checked myself a thousand times before getting here on what not to say and what to say and how to be as direct without anger and with a thought as possible. Because I do have, I grew up in an Italian Jewish neighborhood.

My first friends were probably white and black besides my brothers. And Ronnie Rosenbaum is still one of my best friends. And we check each other constantly, constantly. And, you know, we won't even make, well, back in the day we would make jokes, you know, because of this. But now we figure out maybe those jokes that we make aren't so good for the psyche either. So I constantly check myself. That's the first thing I think. Yeah.

And I think it also has to be a point where as far as holding yourself accountable, that's huge. And you have to look back and say, damn, I was a part of that too. And being okay with that, not beating yourself up. As an ally, you have to understand like, oh, damn, when they did crack that joke. And every white person I know, I don't care how much they try to deny it has heard a family member a co-worker a friend whatever it is when they would know anything anybody else was looking they slipped in the n-word and some joke or or they were being dead serious telling the parent like i posted a couple weeks ago about this uh white girl that was talking to her parents

and the parents were like well no black people want to be in the ghetto. They don't want to succeed. You know, that's their problem. And the white girl's like, no, that's not the problem. She's like, yeah, but they're like animals and this and that. Like, this is still going on today. You see what I'm saying? So for people to see that, you have to understand that everybody has to speak up.

This little, I think she's 17 or something like that. If this 17-year-old girl can speak up, everybody has to speak up. And you have to nip it in the bud. You literally have to, when you hear something racist, you see something racist, speak up about it. I think people are, we talked about it earlier, are too uncomfortable. Oh, we were talking about Greg outside. Yeah. They're too uncomfortable with being shunned.

Like, no, you're not going to be liked by everybody. But at least be, if somebody's going to hate you, let them hate you for doing the right thing. You know, there's a lot of people like, I know that's wrong over there, but I'm not going to say anything because my family and friends might not talk to me. All right, if those people don't want to talk to you

for doing the right thing, fuck them. Like, literally, like, that's showing you their character. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I get that. I mean, I think that's an example of egregious, overt racism. I think the real, the harder hill to climb and the more pernicious problem

is kind of what you were speaking to, John. Like the idea that there are a lot of people, most people who will tell you I'm not racist, and I don't have a racist bone in my body and I don't see color. And the blind spot for them and for myself is the systemic aspect of all of this. Like when you have watched

all those television programs growing up, like I grew up in a white neighborhood. I mean, I went to school with some black people, but it's like, I wasn't reared in black culture, right? And so- You were. Well, I was, pop culture, yeah, for sure. You know what I mean?

And sports and all of that. But this has brought up for me the work that I need to do to like unravel that knot and to kind of identify those blind spots that I have within myself. Because I would look you straight in the eye and say, I've never done anything racist. I don't harbor racist thoughts and all of that.

But because of the way I was raised and the people I've surrounded myself my whole life, it's impossible that there isn't some kind of deeply embedded imprint that I need to like look at and unravel. You said, you said, I said this before, a guy said, I don't have a racist bone in my body. I said, no, but you got a racist heart. Not you, Rich. Not you. What I mean, to give you an example, I grew up in a white neighborhood. You said that. So you knew.

Right. You knew. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. You grew up in a neighborhood that was white. Right. You knew. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. You grew up in a neighborhood that was white. Right. That means you grew up in a neighborhood that separated you from black people. Right.

That's racist. So from the beginning of your being, they separated you from us because of their thought and fear of us. So when you only know this, when you see this, you only, when you see it, you go, mommy, what's that? They give you the cliff note. Oh, that's them over there. Right. So that starts it. That starts racism when they separated you and when they didn't include in the beginning. So that's where it starts. The other part is visualization as a young, young. I said this. I said what needs to be done, nobody wants to do. Right?

Everybody wants to be a martyr, but they forget you got to die first. You got to die first. So no one wants to do what needs to be done. And when I say it, I lose so-called followers. I put myself in a position, but this is it. I'm going to say it on your show because I love you. The only way to erase racism is to take the picture of white Jesus out of every church in the world.

If you don't erase the thought of God being white, it's going to constantly stay this way. I was going to post every statue they're taking down with Confederate, they need to go in a black church and take the white Jesus off the wall, and they won't do it because the white Jesus was established across to do exactly what it's doing. But this is what got us to this point. In Brazil, I was in Bahia, Brazil. There's 365 churches in the city of Bahia. This is the first place that they, the first place they did slaves. They bring slaves into Bahia. They still, they will show you the dances, the capoato.

They will show you the cells where they bring you up from. It's a whole tour. 365 churches. So every day you can go to a different church and worship Jesus Christ, and every picture in there is white. There's gold flaking on the wall, people living in the streets. It's always been this way. So in order to stop racism, you have to stop preaching it when it comes to faith and religion. If that's not done, we're going to stay here. Yeah. It's going to be a little bit of resistance to that.

Yeah. Oh, there's going to be. In Detroit, during 1968, when they went in, they painted Madonna black. So it was called the Shrine of the Black Madonna. There's just no way Jesus was white. I mean, it's absurd. You can't tell me that because I saw him in a picture. Right, in a picture.

My whole life. He looked like he had pretty brown hair. He looked like Robin Thicke before he was cleared to go. He was the best looking German dude I've ever seen, man. A German guy without getting his head. And you know black people will defend that. There's some black churches who ask this. Hey, let's take the picture of the white Jesus down.

They said no. They said no. It doesn't mean anything. They said it means everything. It means everything because it means that if the son of God is white, God is white. If the son of John Sally came out white, we would blood test. Right? So if the son of God is white, God is white.

That is establishing that that's the supreme. So where do you get white supremacy? That's the beginning of white supremacy. Super interesting. Yeah. Did you see Cornel West talking to Anderson Cooper on CNN the other day? Yeah, I love Cornel.

I mean, what an incredible monologuer he is. I mean, that was like so powerful. And one of the things he said was, the blowback is coming, like make no mistake. Like this is not gonna go quietly into the night and just manifest beautiful change without a lot of resistance to this. So how do you think about that?

Where do you see that coming from? And how do we prepare for that? I think it's spot on. It's so interesting that people want, they want people to be peaceful and protest. They don't mind the cops being aggressive and getting the protesters out of there. But when somebody's,

like Dave Chappelle, he just put out a special. Did you watch 846? That was, not to get too far off 70 but i don't think anybody can bring a story together like he can like with so many different aspects that just tie in together but it's just like people have to be willing to understand how long we have been quiet. It's like you see all the memes like,

well, we try to protest peacefully by taking a knee. Nothing happens. We try to protest peacefully on the street. Nothing happens. We try to protest peacefully online. Nothing happens. We burn some shit.

Everybody shows up. Well, damn. All right, well, now you're showing up. All right, okay. Well, now you're here. Now let's talk. And I'm with John on this, too. I mean, I know people work hard for their business,

so I definitely don't want to see that happen. But I also know that sometimes in order to get the point across, shit's got to go down. Shit's got to go down. I hate it that it does. I hate it. I hate that. And I wish we could find another way to get them attention.

But then we also got to look at the setup that comes along with this too. Like, nobody ever talks about this. They talk about the random bricks that just show up all the time for people to throw.

But has anybody ever tripped off? Why is there always a random fucking cop car for like the extra scene on Street Fighter? Remember you just beat up the cop car and you get all these extra points?

Like, it's just always an empty cop car for everybody to burn up and spray paint and beat the hell out of. When on a normal day. Like a prop for a photo op. Like a prop. So that we can say that this is out of control. Exactly.

When on a normal day have you ever just seen a random cop car on the street? With the windows down. With the windows down. No cop around. No cop. Hey, I tell you this. No one likes the truth. That's why it's a hard thing when you got to go in yourself and check yourself.

And you know how many times I had to check myself if I wasn't being a house Negro or a field Negro? I had to check myself I wasn't being house. I use the word Negro because it's a little different. And do you think that's why the NFL players acted the way they did with the Kaepernick thing? They were scared of the job. They were. And you had owners telling you if you do it, you're out. We're fining you this amount of money.

And what do you think about what Goodell just said? Well, I got a text from Drew Brees. I texted Drew Brees as soon as it happened. Did you? I said, let me help you through this. Let me explain it to you. And then he sent back a wonderful text saying, sorry, I didn't get back to you. Obviously, I've been inundated. But yo, I apologize. I had to recheck what I was saying, what I meant. I said it the wrong time. But I now know where I was wrong.

I was like, perfect. I love what Goodell, I like, perfect. I love what Goodell said. And I think he should say, we should do this now and we should pay more attention. I think he's stepping up and saying that. Great. I'm glad he did. Talking about giving people their jobs back and all that. All he can do is apologize for mistakes. But right now, Kyrie Irving is telling guys,

when they're trying to get the NBA season to start back in Orlando, he's saying, I don't think we should be playing basketball right now. And then if the black ballplayers don't back Kyrie Irving, I'm telling you. He's going to get pushed out, marginalized. No. The ones who don't follow Kyrie Irving are the ones who are going to get pushed out, marginalized? No. The ones who don't follow Kyrie Irving are the ones who are going to get pushed out. They're going to get pushed out from our community because I'm going to make sure of it. Those who don't join the fight, if you ain't with us, you're against us. George W. Bush.

Well, the Drew Brees thing, back to the Drew Brees thing. I mean, that whole situation kind of perfectly encapsulates so much, right? Here's a guy who just said absolutely the worst possible thing he could ever say in that moment. And it was just looking at that, I was just thinking, how could he, like what was going through his mind that he thought that was the right thing to do?

Grew up in a white neighborhood. I will give him- My point to you. Yeah, and then he got, I mean, the whole world put do. Grew up in a white neighborhood. I will give him- My point to you. And then he got, I mean, the whole world put him on blast. The internet just went insane. I will give him credit that he did a pretty good job with his apology. Like he really, he didn't just walk it back and do kind of like that, you know. The textbook, the apology.

Like he, you could tell he put a lot of thought into it. And I do think it's important in this moment where there's a breakdown in civil discourse and we're finding it more and more difficult to actually just have hard conversations where you, John Sally, can say, you could speak your mind, you could speak your truth. That's why I love-

We need to have this. Regardless of your opinion or whether we disagree or not, that is the path forward here. And right now our culture is so fraught and everybody's so terrified of saying the wrong thing that a lot of people are sitting on the sidelines and remaining quiet in a moment where I think we need to be conversing in public out loud.

And when you see Drew Brees and what he did, we need to understand that when someone makes a mistake like that, that we have to provide them the opportunity to redeem themselves. We can't just cancel them forever. Like if we wanna grow and learn from this moment right now, we have to be able to celebrate the wins and figure out how to fan the flames of

positive change without just the, you know, shoving aside of the people who don't fall into line with whatever talking points are deemed socially acceptable in the moment. Yeah. I think that speaks to all aspects of this problem from all different. And I believe in cancel culture is used too much, but I do believe sometimes it is needed. Like, I would say this. If Breeze's speech was, it wasn't speech, but his interview, if what he would have said was straight hateful and you knew it was a hateful tone, then- That was different. You know what I'm saying?

Then just apologizing, that shit just doesn't work you know i think we got to stop doing that too as black people like well he apologized even though he said i hate fucking black people and he apologized that is different you know what i'm saying like but we we got situations like that where people literally been hateful and but then they start looking at their money their dollar and they're like oh i need to go apologize they don't apologize because that's the right thing to do because you probably wouldn't have said the first thing in the first place. Let me give you a little history. George Wallace was the governor of Alabama when that walk across Selma Bridge happened. a bridge happened and he wanted he wanted exactly what happened when they crossed the bridge people

getting beat everything to when the president had to send a national guard in to tell him not to kill these black folks he then had a stroke when he got older and his nurse was black and literally saving his life every day. And he apologized and all these black people put their hands on him. I got it in the Jet magazine and my mom's made sure, I said, you see, some people you can go back and realize is gonna come back the one day, the people that you hurt are gonna come back and the ones you're gonna need.

And I thought about it i like all of these guys i love what drew said i like that they came back and i like that when people like you said get a chance to redeem themselves but he would not have said that if he didn't grow up thinking the other way. That's why you having us on this show, me in particular, only being my second time, but don't worry about it. Sorry, my second time. Yeah, it's bullshit. You can come back anytime.

We were joking before the podcast, so the first time you came in, you got up in the middle and said, you gotta go pick up your daughter. I did? Yeah, you remember that? Oh, yeah, man. So she was right down the street from your crib, too.

I was having a rough daughter time that time. Ooh, you in trouble. Yeah, I know, man. My daughter flipped out from 14 to 16. Like, tripped. I was like, whose house did you grow up in? I'm in a little bit of that right now. Yeah, man. I was like, hormones and pen did you grow up in? I'm in a little bit of that right now. Yeah, man.

I was like, hormones and penises will do some crazy things. Mine's only four, so I'm enjoying the ride right now. Don't wait until she starts smelling guys from a distance. He smells cute. Jesus Christ, what was going on? I wanted to write a book just on raising daughters. I would have got killed, but man, it would have been tough. All right, but I going on? I wanted to write a book just on raising daughters. I would have got killed. But man, it would have been tough.

All right, but I stepped on your point. Yeah, man. It's just, we do. We can't do to cancel culture. And people do make mistakes. And black people always, always forgive. Just remember that. Don't ever think that they hate me.

They're never going to get black people. And the reason I tell you the George Wallace thing is because he was the most hateful guy. He was so mad that the University of Alabama put the—it was so funny in Forrest Gump when they talked about putting the football players. And Bear Bryant was like, I don't care what you're saying. You know, I'm putting them on the field. He was so hateful. But when it came down to when his life depended on it, it was only black people around him.

There was no white folks around him. And he apologized. And he apologized and apologized. And I want you all to realize that when you make those apologies and they're heartfelt, black people will put their arm around you. And it can't be a one-time apology. Yeah, it will. You might have to apologize

for the rest of your fucking life, but be okay with it. Well, that's in his mama house. The mama house. Remember that time? Yeah, but I'm saying, though, because the thing is, you might have put out a press release.

You might have put out something saying you apologize now, but that don't mean everybody else heard it right then. So, you know what I'm saying? But we'll circulate all the negativity so if it comes down

like Drew Brees talking about you know disrespecting the flag alright you put out the press release you know basically saying

I'm sorry that I shouldn't have done that but that doesn't mean just cause you got over it that the other person got over it that you were talking about so you might have

it's just like I mean if you in a relationship it's a starting point yeah if you in a relationship and you mess So you might have, it's just like, I mean, if you're in a relationship. It's a starting point. Yeah, if you're in a relationship and you mess up, you might have to apologize for the rest of that relationship.

And if you plan on having a relationship with black people, you might have to apologize over and over and over. Or make the living amends. It's about the behavior. It's about your behavior. How is he going to change his behavior?

Because the proof is, I mean, and I hate when people say this, it's not in the pudding for everybody out there. It's not proof is in the pudding. It's proof is in the put in. But people in America mess up the whole quote. That sounds like some crazy, badass, vegan quote.

Yeah, it is a bad quote. I've been stealing it. I've been writing T-shirts down every time I'm around this motherfucker. But the proof is in the pudding. It's actually what you put in. Hey, I got to go get my daughter. but the proof is in the pudding it's actually what you put in hey I gotta go get my daughter

as soon as you're talking too much I gotta spice on me I'm done I tell people all the time that's like my mentor my older brother for real anyway so like a lot of times

I've been around him almost most of your life I didn't know that I mean I knew you guys knew each other I didn't know how old were mean, I knew you guys knew each other. I didn't know.

How old were you when I first was your camp counselor? Don't listen to this shit. How old were you? How old were you? It sounds like a messed up story coming to me. No, how old were you? I didn't say in the boys' home. I didn't say in the boys' home, the say in the boys home the juvenile home you were in I didn't make it that

we've known each other about 10 years about 10 years I would say it's funny though I wore his jersey number when I was a kid though oh really

I was a fan yeah I mean I didn't know he was fucking crazy back then but I was a fan. You know I used to have my own sneaker, right? I was like one of the first guys. I didn't know that, but like of course you did.

My brother was on this. And so it was called Osaka. And we sold it at Kenny's Shoe Stores because we thought, yeah, we only sell them for $40 so people can afford that, right? Yeah. Same Marbury mentality. They don't cost that much to make. Yeah.

And somebody says, yo, man, I pay our sagas. And I swear, I don't know if it's because I started smoking weed 20 years ago. I was like, what the hell is an Osaka? So when people say I was a fan, I go, man, I used to play basketball. I got so many businesses. I don't even remember that one. I was like, oh, I used to play basketball. That's right. I couldn't imagine jumping and hitting somebody.

And my knees right now just tweaked even thinking about it. All that self-care? Rich, I was playing this guy like this. All that CBD? I was playing this cool kid, and this kid did a move, and he went around me. He went around me so fast, and my legs didn't move, which used to be just instinct. He went around me so fast this way. I had to look this way.

I looked at my legs. I said, that's what we're doing. That's it. That's it, man. My wife was like, what happened? My legs don't work anymore. She goes, do your legs hurt? How long ago was that?

I was like, huh? How long ago? It was 10 years ago now. I'm 56 now. I'm 46. I knew. That's why I couldn't understand. Kareem played.

He was 42. Robert Paris. Kobe playing, too. I could not imagine playing 20 years. To me right now, when I see people, you still run? Yeah. I wish I could still. I got some back stuff that I'm working on.

Yeah. What kind of products you got for me? Man, I got some unbelievable. I wouldn't mention one company, but they didn't do the deal yet, Quanta. Put a little pressure on them Quanta put a little pressure a little pressure yeah but definitely

I wish my legs still worked the same there's another company too that same thing I was working on something with them didn't go through but the shit worked

so like they actually got me thinking about playing ball again like my knees Canavera I had surgery on both knees nah

I don't even know if I want to say that. Oh. They cool people, though. Yeah, I put something on. And I was like, hey, let's go for a run. My wife was like, well, I don't want to hear you for five days. She goes, the Peloton's over there. I was like, oh, man.

You ride the Peloton? Yeah. I said, nah. And they came in the house and said, guess what? This works for your height. And we have another seven footer. So no excuses. And here's some 15s.

I was like, damn. I got to do this thing. But it's, I tried swimming again. Yeah. That was great. That was great. See, you just destroyed the myth about a black person not being able to swim. I know.

My mother made me learn how to swim and ice skate and read. Swim, ice skate, and read. I can see your stroke in the pool. Oh, yeah. You know who was a really good swimmer? Shaquille. Shaquille swims. Yeah.

No way. Yeah, man. I would not have thought that. He can get out of the thing and act like a whale and fly back in the water. He's like a great swimmer. And I was like, I got this pool. I'm going to go swimming again. Oh, that shit is hard.

Yeah, it's hard. It's good though. Oh, Alpen Organics is the name. But they got a CBD cream that like, put it this way. I was at like an 8 or 10 with my knees. Pain. And I'm easily at a 0 to 2 now. Wow.

And anybody that's been through an 8 to 10 pain will take 0 to 2 in a heartbeat. Now, mind you, it's got me wanting to go play ball again, but probably the first time I step on the court, my knees are going to be like, no, this is not what this is for. I can't even shoot a hook shot. I tried it. I went on my court the other day, and I said, I'm just, you know what? Come on. I'm just going to do some, I'm not going to jump that much. You have a court at your house?

Yeah. I'm not going to jump that much. I'm just going to do this. Man, I took about six shots. I was like, I need to hit the bowl with my puppy. I was like, this is crazy. All right, let's shift gears here. I want to talk about the doc.

Can we talk about the doc? Yeah, for sure. For justice. Yeah. You want to give him a new. Can we talk about the doc? Yeah, for sure. For Justice. Yeah. You want to give him a new name? Yeah, we're building up to it. We're building up to it. I want to hear what it is.

But you partnered up with our boy, Keegan, who's the guy behind What the Health and Cowspiracy. Tell us a little bit about this movie. I mean, you guys are still in production. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we were scheduled to be done shooting in june but with the pandemic and everything um we had to put it back so we're focused on releasing it by the end of the year uh the film is about social justice and food justice through the lens of hip-hop um our current uh you know if anybody's seen the Health, this is like the official follow-up

to What the Health. And we've, John's in the movie, Neo, Maya, Styles P, Stick from Dead Prez, Rory. Waka Palaka. Waka, we talked, but he didn't want to do it. We did talk about it. And that's cool. I know it's not for everybody. So Waka, we talked, but he didn't want to do it. We did talk about it. And that's cool. I know it's not for everybody.

Because we go very in-depth in this, and we're calling out major brands, major government, all kinds of stuff. Wow. And sometimes it's just everybody don't want to talk about it. So I get it. I don't hold it personal when nobody doesn't want to be in a documentary or anything like that. But it's like the idea is it's addressing food injustice and like nutritional poverty in the African-American community. And showing also like how certain foods literally are detrimental to the health of people of color.

I mean, just like science has shown it, all these lab tests, everything, and then the government still allows it to be sold and one of the greatest stories I saw was we were looking at an advertisement from either one of the major baby formula companies and they showed him

handing it to me in the movie and he's handing it to me and I'm reading it and it literally says mother's breast milk is not sufficient for the growth of babies so you're telling people which is targeted to people of color that they're the thing that that that uh has been creating humans since humans were a thing that's good enough. That's why you need this baby formula.

That's full of fucking cow's milk. That's detrimental to people of color already. So 70% of all allergies are related to the ingestion of animal milk. Lactose. Lactose intolerance. So if you start them off with that, you're not even giving them breast milk. People don't even know how much DNA is transferred to a baby from their mother's breast milk. Not even from your mother's breast milk.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just another human breast milk. Yeah, and when you dial it back to the actual mother, the breast milk actually will change its formula to fit what the baby needs. And that's how crazy science is. They're like, no, no, no. Don't do that. We got to figure it out. We got this product here for you.

We need to lessen the male African reproduction. You can say it. Tell them what you want to say. We. Reproduction. You can say it. Tell them what you want to say. Nope. We're on the show. The deal is they put foods in. The reason I got involved is the first title was They Killing Us. Literally spelled in Ebonics.

Yeah. They Killing Us. Not they are, not they're, not maybe. They are, without saying it, they killing us not they are not they're not maybe they are without saying that they killing us that's what I was like

keep that title because it literally means something more than just it's ebonic it's the way I just said it is black

American period but they changed it hungry for justice hungry for justice but now the official title of the film is they're trying to kill us uh-huh that's the official title not that not they are not is yeah they're they're trying to kill us they are trying to kill us which and that's what they're showing that's what we're showing like this whole system is set up to where

you're you're eating this certain food and it's going to lead to these multiple different either ailments, diseases, whatever. And then when that happens, now you have to go get this pill. The pill doesn't work long enough because none of the pills say that they cure anything. They say help you deal with the symptoms Symptoms. With the symptoms of. So, it's duct tape. Like, if you notice, there's nothing out there. Any of these commercials,

they'll give you 85 side effects. May cause anal leakage and all this other shit. But your headache's gone. Uh-huh. You know what I'm saying? So, they start talking about all these different things.

And if that doesn't work, guess what? Now you need the surgery. Now, the surgery's $30,000. And after surgery, guess what you got to do? do you gotta take some more pills to deal with the lack of whatever we cut out of you right because you can't produce it anymore yourself or what they don't talk about is right over here we got this food that you could just eat that's like grown from the ground and will prevent talk a little bit about how this impacts um black and african-american communities disproportionately from other communities because could you make that

argument that that would be the case whoever the customer is yeah you could say that that is the case but what we've noticed is uh proportionally that grocery stores are not spread around the country evenly. So you look at lower income communities, they'll have a bodega maybe. They'll maybe have a gas station. And what we've noticed is that people call it food deserts. It's not really food deserts. It's not really food deserts. It's nutrition deserts. It's food there, but where's the nutrition in it?

You know, you got a pack of peanuts that's got 18 ingredients in it, but all it needs is just peanuts. You know, what you get to see is that these people in these certain demographics are predominantly people of color. So, yeah, you might have, and you get people with the, you know, the outlying factor, like, yeah, there are some white people that live in this community, but predominantly it's people of color. So that's what they're showing. And that's what we're showing is that you're starting off already in a negative playing field. You know, they're

already, let's say you're climbing to the top of the mountain. We gave them a five-hour head start and we gave them shoes. You know what I'm saying? Now, you get up that mountain too, you catch them. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's so many things across the board

without giving it a whole movie way, but, you know, like, for instance, we're in L.A. right now. If people want to really see the difference, I want them to go to Beverly Hills and tell me the address of the McDonald's in Beverly Hills. And if somebody actually gives you the address of McDonald's in Beverly Hills, they're fucking lying because there's not one. There's not one McDonald's in Beverly Hills? You won't find it in Beverly Hills. I didn't even know that.

I didn't even know that. Beverly Hills is 4.4 miles wide, supposedly like that. You won't find a McDonald's. You won't find a Popeye's. You won't find- And one gasoline store, and it's the highest gasoline in the world, in the country. Oh, that fancy one with the fancy roof. Yeah.

Yeah, I know what you mean. People still come up and work on your car. So that's where you get to see where they know what they're doing. They're putting things in certain areas to feed the white America and the people of color. And just because you, like, let me try to say, like, that doesn't mean you're racist, that you've been a part of this matrix for so long. It's like, no, but once you realize it, what are you gonna do about it? That speaks to the systemic aspect of all of this.

Exactly, that's the systemic aspect. That like sort of reinforces this, you know, the disproportionate outcomes. I mean, when you look at black Americans and the incidence of diabetes and obesity, and you line that up against white populations and it's pretty shocking. And it's what we've been taught. We've been conditioned to believe that we have to eat any certain foods. We've been conditioned to believe that we will

have these certain ailments and these certain diseases, but nobody's coming to tell us, you know, that's actually preventable over there. You don't have to get this shit. You know what I'm saying? But we think we got to have a certain way to eat. We got to... And most of that stuff, if you trace it back, started off with slavery as well.

So you were given this food and one thing about black people, we will turn anything you give us into gold. If you give us a fucked up situation, we're going to make the best of it. The problem is, is that we're still holding on

to that fucked up situation every time're going to make the best of it. The problem is that we're still holding on to that fucked up situation every time we eat these certain foods. And it's still keeping us in this system. The one thing is there's a loophole. There's a loophole. The good food that's available out there is available for everybody. But they make you see

a dollar hamburger and you think that that's a better value. But in reality, you can get more fruits and vegetables for the week under a certain budget than you would if you were to go buy a steak and all these processed stuff. Part of the deal is it's fast food. And in our community, usually parents work more than one job. Yeah. our community, usually parents work more than one job. And there's been a lot of times where it's been single parent home, either single mom or single dad, mostly mom. So mom doesn't

have the time or the wherewithal to go get those vegetables, make it into a meal, unless they're Ethiopian. If they're Ethiopian, they know what to do with the lentils in the corner. You're trained that way. But in America, we're trained, here, take some money, go get you and your sister something to eat and come back. Go $5, go. And whatever you can get for $5 is going to be your food for the night.

And the food that you're getting is not food, so it doesn't digest, but it swells your stomach. And so if you're getting no nutrients and you're getting no strength, then you have no ability to fight. If you have no ability to fight, you would have no ability to reproduce. If you have no ability to reproduce, they lessen your sperm count. They add tons of obesity has gone through. Your self-esteem has dropped. And there's crime on the street, so you can't leave your house. So this is constantly put into a situation to make us fight amongst ourselves while being sick. And that's where it comes into is why, like you said, I did it and why we had to put better restaurants.

But I'm going to get an argument from somebody no matter what. When they were like, Sal, I mean, I was talking to Shaq, and he was like, so I shouldn't eat fried chicken? Right. And I was like, nah, you know, and you eating the skin too, and there's an oil and it's going to get into you. So, okay, you telling black people not to eat chicken. Yeah.

Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. That's it. But his film is going to hit, like he said. He's going to get sued a lot. He's going to get sued a lot. Oh gonna get sued a lot oh he's sued but i think i think your boy knows i think your boy is smart he'll know how to get around knows how to stir it up yeah for sure right he's he's proven that a couple times we got a collective effort

here like we i mean it's funny i talk to him every day like every. And we always are coming up with, like, brainstorming ideas. Like, ooh, shit, let's do this. Yeah, let's do this. Oh, because, you know, when they see this, they're going to be pissed. Perfect. Because we want people to... Because he's a punk. Our goal...

He's a punk rock thing. Exactly. Exactly. Our goal... And this is the thing, too. For everybody out there, I don't want people to think that Keegan is running this film. I don't know why people think... Like, I had somebody...

If I were you, I would let them think that because when they get sued, let them sue. Yes, I guess. Listen, ask the lawyer right there. I had somebody... They disagree with one of my posts. I was like, all these vegan corporations and organizations that reached out to me about, hey, we need to promote the black people, but now you're silent. I'm like, fuck y'all.

I'm being honest. No, fuck y'all. And they were like, ooh, I hope Keegan sees this and he drops him from the film. I'm like, I was like, first of all, Keegan reposted the shit. Yeah, he's totally on board with that idea. Yeah, he's totally on board.

And second of all, I'm like, that plays into the whole mindset of like, well, I'll go report to the white guy that the black guy's over here acting up. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, the mentality that comes with that is crazy. That's wild. Yeah, man. You are a troublemaker. I am a troublemaker.

I am. But I'm only a troublemaker because people want to hold on to the old fake shit. You're a troublemaker because people want to hold on to the old fake shit. You're a troublemaker. Yeah. I mean, vegan Instagram's a shit show right now. The truth only hurts so much if you live in a lie. That's the truth. That's what I said.

If you live in a lie, the truth is going to fucking hurt you. You know what I heard yesterday? What? Oh, my God. It was the greatest thing. A guy heckling and saying something. And he said, don't worry about it. And he goes, no. He goes, you know what I heard yesterday? What? Oh, my God. It was the greatest thing. There was a guy heckling and saying something. And he said, don't worry about it. And he goes, no.

He goes, you know what? If you throw a brick at a pack of dogs, only the one that gets hit by the brick howls. So only the people that get upset are the ones who are going to say something about what you're doing. Exactly. The ones that the brick hits. The one that hits them, then they got something to howl for. Like I say, I say it all the time. I was like, look, I might put the shoe out there, but I don't name the name of the shoe.

I don't even say what size it is, but there's always some motherfucker coming along saying the shoe fits. And if the shoe fits, you wear it. Like, that's fine with me. But I don't name out anybody. I name out the actions. And I'm like, if you it. Like, that's fine with me. But I don't name out anybody. I name out the actions. And I'm like, if you fit these actions, that's you.

So we have no sponsors for the, for the, we're done with sponsors. Jesus Christ. That's where the Kickstarter comes in. Somebody needs to take over

your Twitter, Donald Trump. We do have the, give it here. You're killing us. We do have a, we do have a, a crowd funder going on for the film

and it's to make sure that people are involved in the film even more than what they are. You remember the name of it? What is it? The crowdfunding? It's going to be on our website. They're trying to kill us dot com. They're trying to kill us dot com.

Is that website up right now? It's up. How do we spell it? They are They're trying to kill us. Is that website up right now? Yeah, it's up. It'll be up by the time you put the show up. How do we spell it? How do we spell it? They are. They are. They are.

T-H-E-Y-R-E. There's no apostrophe on websites, everybody. By the time this movie comes out, I think Sean's going to win this argument. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said it when he said it. I was like, oh, my God. But it's so funny has anybody made a nutrition focused documentary

about the black and African communities people of color communities there was one called the invisible vegan I don't want to leave her out vegan or otherwise just like get healthy yeah yeah yeah I think before her I don't think anybody else really made one to focus on people of color.

And it's so neat because it's just, I don't think anybody was in a position to make it at the same time. Like I just, I've been fortunate to be able to in a position where, you know, Keegan, we've been friends for a long time. And he asked me, he was like, man, I want to do a film, man, with you. Because he's seen my work and other stuff I've done, social justice and always speaking up and doing speeches. And he's like, let's work together. He's like, I want to reach a different demographic. I was like, well, you know, like, let's go for the people of color.

Like, they need us. He's like, yeah, but I don't know how. I was like, hip hop. Like, my first idea was like hip hop. I was like, hip hop. My first idea was hip hop. I was like, hip hop runs everything. It's the most powerful cultural force in the universe. If you ever want to understand how strong hip hop is, say if you close your eyes, you can see a bunch of six-foot white guys

on skates with Jay-Z playing in the background, and you just talked about the NHL. You know what I'm saying? That's how powerful it is. Hip hop green. white guys on skates with Jay-Z playing in the background. And you just talked about the NHL. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's how powerful it is. The biggest... Hip-hop green. Yeah, hip-hop is green.

But, you know, look at the biggest Broadway show right now. Hamilton. Hip-hop infused. You know what I'm saying? So, it's like... So, what about unhealthy vegans, though? Are we only talking about the black unhealthy vegans? Or, like, when you say nutrition, Are we only talking about the black unhealthy vegans?

When you say nutrition, what point are we getting? Well, we are trying to get people to be healthy. That's the thing. There's a big confusion of veganism and healthy veganism. There are some vegan products out there that taste like burger, taste like cheese, taste like that. And sure, in moderation. But what we're trying to do is get people to be vegan for health. It was about healing. In your movie, you know, what is the path forward? Like, what are the solutions that you're

providing people with? That's one of the biggest things is I wanted to be solution-based with the movie. That was one of the biggest things I told Keegan. One of them is we're working on actual programs, like more learning programs afterwards. We're showing them how to eat within the movie, showing them where to get fruits and vegetables, where to get

nuts, legumes, and rice, whatever it kind of be, but how to put it together that's beneficial to them as well. Like, we also, I don't want them to feel like, all right, we gave you this problem, but we didn't show you how to take care of yourself. Showing them, like, a lot of the different studies and everything, showing how the reversal of all these diseases

can be incorporated with this plant-based eating, vegan eating, whatever the case is. One of the biggest things, too, is we were working on an actual meal plan, like actual product to be very affordable. So, you know, we do see that a lot of the vegan items are out of the price range for a lot of people. I actually had some talks with a store brand, Whole Foods, if you're listening. Let's get that going. But we were working on having it to where people who watch the film, they could get these meal plans from Whole Foods at an affordable rate. And also have them delivered since before the pandemic, you know, delivery was still a thing with Whole Foods

and having it delivered to them because when I had a meeting with Whole Foods, I told them, I was like, you know, you can build a Whole Foods in the hood right next door to a mom with six kids

and she's still not coming. Because for her to get all six kids in the car, get them ready, or even if it's a dad i don't want to sound the wrong way whoever a parent a single parent with kids for them to get them in the car get them over there get them there but now if we provide a solution where we're literally putting it on the doorstep for them this is already made all you gotta do is heat it up you know what i'm saying and i'm not this is not like a business. Just making it as easy as possible,

right? And like expanding the perimeter, the delivery perimeter also, because those Whole Foods are far away. And we're talking about Amazon. They are, you know, they have the capability to reach everybody.

They're already delivering. Like why not have it to where they give it to them there? And I'm, I mean, while it's, I have been in talks with other stores as well. So if it doesn't work out with Whole Foods, it's going to work out. And I mean, while I have been in talks with other stores as well, so if it doesn't work out with Whole Foods,

it's going to work out. Right. Well, whatever the solution is, it's got to be convenient, affordable, you know, easy, and there has to be an education piece to it.

And there's an education piece where I should show them like, hey, if you don't want us to make stuff, here's also stuff that you can do at home on your own, get the kids involved.

So I think that's a big thing too is like we don't involve our kids in the process of making our food. So when the food home on your own, get the kids involved. So I think that's a big thing, too, is, like, we don't involve our kids in the process of making our food. So when the food is on the table, like, why did you give me this? You know? And so now it's, like, involving the whole family, if they have time. Because we also know, like you said, you got single parents or whatever working two, three jobs.

I was raised in a single-family household. You know, my mom was working her ass off because she was a manager for Bell South or Pacific Bell, but it was Southwestern Bell where we were. And as a black person in the 80s, as a managing role, a black lady at that, she was putting in extra hours that the white guy that worked under her wasn't even putting in because she had to show that she was capable of this job.

So, you know, I ate chicken damn near every night that worked under her wasn't even putting in because she had to show that she was capable of this job. So, you know, I ate chicken damn near every night because it was frozen chicken from Sam's Club. Yeah. It was easy. I unplugged my microwave. Yeah. Told my daughters if it broke. And they found out.

And then one day I just started putting, Koya Webb taught me, I just put a whole bunch of dishes in there so when they went to use it, it was already there. They were too lazy. They were too lazy to do it, yeah. I made them learn how to cook.

That was all it took, just put some dishes in there and just never got used again. Yeah, they had to learn how to cook and I'm glad you said that. I'm glad teaching. It's a trip. It's a thing that hasn't been around.

My mother made me learn how to do everything. But yeah, I can't wait for your movie to come out. It's exciting, man. Thank you. It's exciting. I know like COVID has like pushed it back a little bit. Yeah, you got some- I wanna retake because I got more muscles now.

I've been able to work out. I'm framing my body back. I think I was really soft in that. I think my body was soft. I want my body stronger. The power that a document like that holds to really shift culture is super exciting. Yeah.

Yeah, and it's where, look, the whole vegan thing, the vegan movement, it's so super whitewashed. It's this aspiration of the well-heeled. And that narrative needs to get shifted. And the fact that you're doing that is... But what I found out when, and I'm gonna say it this way, when white folks are vegan

and are into natural way of eating, they are more empathetic and they understand slavery. What I mean by that, they don't know it directly, but they don't want the animals enslaved. And they would understand the horrific treatment of animals and that black folks at one time were submitted to the same level and still considered that it's a better feeling when I'm around vegans than I'm around a flesh eater. When I'm around a flesh eater, you know, they still think, well, I can take my gun and go shoot a deer and then I'm cool. And I go, why don't you go hunting with it? Everybody got a gun. Right. Let's see how they enjoy it. Yeah, when they call hunting a sport, it's like, no, a sport is when all parties involved know they're a part of the game.

Yeah. Like the animal doesn't have a fucking clue. Give them a clue. When you think about it, the overlap between, you know, how I would like to think about myself approaching this situation and my, you know, how I think about veganism, I mean, there's a huge overlap, right? This is about like compassion.

It's about, you know, being open to new ideas. It's about, you know, challenging your assumptions and, you know, sort of undoing some of that programming. Like none of us were born vegan. We lived a certain way and ate a certain way. We made a change. And, you know, I would like to believe that it's made me a more compassionate person. But it has been interesting to kind of watch how the vegan community is grappling

with what's happening right now. And, you know, some are doing it well and some are not. And that's disheartening to me because this is about compassion. And I would hope that everybody can think about that a little bit in terms of like how they're communicating and navigating what's happening. Yeah, and I think also is just that

one thing that I saw that was kind of weird is that how you'll see vegans compare modern day agriculture, animal agriculture, to slavery. It's like, well, if you speak that way, then why wouldn't you speak up for the descendants of that same slavery? That's the funny thing. They feel like they can't speak up about it. Oh, no, we only speak up for the descendants of that same slavery? That's the funny thing. They feel like they can't speak up about it. Oh, no, we only speak up for the animals. Like, yeah, but if you are going to use slavery as your speaking note, then you can't be hypocritical about it. Now you have to remember.

You know what I'm saying? I see that so many times across the board. They'll use that so fast. It's like modern day slavery. Okay, well then if it's modern day slavery, you understand

how powerful slavery was and how it trickled down and how the effects can still be here. But you don't say anything. That's it. We on Rich Roll now, they got to say it.

He's going to edit this shit with about 15 minutes of sponsors in the front. And he going to let us roll. Somebody will figure out how to put me on blast. I still do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Rich, no bullshit.

I do have to go get my daughter. I know, and I was going to wrap this up anyway. I knew it. No, that was my thing. I'm going to just keep going and tell John to pull the plug. I stopped at all. I was mad at you. I'm an empty nester.

My kids are away, and it's just me, my wife, and my puppy. And I was like, hey, what's your name? She goes, my name is Natasha. I've been married to you for 29 years. I was wondering who this redhead was in the house. Cool, man. Well, thank you. Thank you.

I appreciate it, man. I really do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. I'm trying, man. That's right. I gave it to you. All right.

Official? Official. All the way from Killer Mike yeah. Thank you. I'm trying, man. That's right. I gave it to you. All right. Official? Official. All the way from Killer Mike to me to you. Your membership card is in the mail. It should get here within- You know it's going to be late, though. Because I'm going to flash that thing. Trust me.

You know it's going to be late, Cody. Let's go with the stereotype. It's going to be late, and it might have a little bit of barbecue sauce on it. We're going to do some stereotypes. Oh, wait. So I want to speak about this. This is good so anybody can do the research

so I was I found out today that they when you talk about the trickle down effect of racism and how it's just been in place for so long

so you know the ice cream man you know the truck when it comes around and it has that song playing in the background so there was a song that that actually came from

and in the lyrics it was like niggas love watermelon in the background. So there was a song that that actually came from. And in the lyrics, it was like, niggas love watermelon in the song. So it's a post-up right now. And they actually, it was recorded for Columbia Records

in like 1926 or 36. Yeah, 21. Really? 21. Maybe 21, yeah. So you can find the song and the video that went along with it

is like this gray and white cartoon depiction of blackface. And they're showing them being excited about eating watermelon, excited about being at home. So it's like those little things, they turn that and of course they made an instrumental out of it. But that shows you how long shit has just been thrown into black people's face. And they're like, no, get over it. It's like, no, you don't get over it. Jingle bells, too.

Yeah, jingle bells. Really? Yeah, jingle bells. The national anthem. Yeah. We don't even have to go into detail. Just people start Googling the actual lyrics to these songs. And then you see why people get frustrated.

It's like, dude, this shit's right in our face. But everybody's like, just get over it. It's okay. It's okay. No, it's not okay. Yeah, this is going to be a great year, 2020. How about 1920? It is, though.

It was the raging 20s. Right? That was the thing. It was, you know, it was the raging 20s. that was that was a thing it was you know it was the raging 20s it was like roaring 20s roaring 20s

roaring 20s like so we're like the COVID 20s yeah but we gotta come up with this 20s it's something

it's something I don't know what it is but every they said it was vision I honestly think it is the year of vision I think it's just showing us

some things we weren't really looking for. But it's showing us a lot of shit. Yeah. Like 2020 is showing us a lot. That is for sure. We can do it. We can do a lot. You know what I'm saying?

It's like we can do a lot. And I say that. My mother passed this year. And then the day after I buried her, Kobe died. And then that was tremendous. And then we got locked down, and then the economy happened, crashed, and then President Trump took over the Fed, and then what happened? Rob Markman, Double lockdown. Rob Markman, Hillary is in court for-

Rob Markman, You know what was crazy about that too? He'll tell you. I randomly just hit him up all the time. Like, hey, he just want to see if he's all right. Just see if he's up. And I don't know. Something gave me a feeling. And that's when I text him.

He was cleaning out his mom's apartment at the time. And some just told me to text him. Like, half the time he don't even fucking respond. That's not true. That's not true. But he'll hit me to text him. Half the time, he don't even fucking respond. That's not true. That's not true. But he'll hit me back later, though. But that's our relationship. He'll hit me like, hey, man, you need to watch this.

Take care of this. A big brother mentor kind of thing that we got. And then when he hit me back about his mom, I'm like, damn. But something told me to hit him up. And then right after that, it's funny because I was in L.A. I was like, hey, I'm in L.A. I'm letting you know because I know if I come to L.A. and I don't tell him, even if I don't see him, it's a problem. If I come to L.A. and he find out later that I was in L.A.

He's going to know anyway. You're going to know. So I was like, hey, I'm in L.A. You're so lucky I don't chase broads anymore. Yeah, yeah. And so I told him, I told him like, yo, I'm in LA. He's like, oh man, I'm doing this. And then the next day was Kobe.

And I was like, shit. Rob Markman, That was the next day. Rob Markman, So I had to hit him back after that. I was like, damn, man, I just heard about Kobe, man. I know he was close with Kobe, so I hope you good, man. If you need me, I'm here. Rob Markman, It was crazy. Rob Markman, I'm one of those people, too. Like, I don't...

I hate hitting up people during, like, bad times. Because I already know 8,000 people hitting them up. You know what I'm saying? But it's better. It's always good. People need to know this. Hit people up during the tough times. Not the good times.

Right, right, right. Then when shit is flying, don't hit them and say, I see you balling, brother. Don't hit them with that. You know, clap from a distance. But when it's tough times, let people know. Yeah. And that's what I told him. I was like, hey, if you need to call me back, I'm here. If not,

dude, I totally understand. I'm not one of the people like, well, I called him and they didn't call me back. It's like, no, that's ego. Like, let that person deal with the situation how they got to deal with it. Just let them know you're there. Yeah, just let them know I'm here if you need me. You probably don't need me, but if so, I'm here.

Yeah, we should read it to view. I'm getting my muscle back. Look at that. Look at that. Look at that. It's coming back, Rich. That baby bicep. Good luck.

Lesson to put a pin in it. You got to get John out of here, man. He's getting antsy. Yeah. All right. Stay vegan. Thanks, guys.

Yes, man. Thank you, man. Much love to everybody. So that happened. What did you guys think? I'm not quite sure what that was, but it was something, right? It was definitely something. Much love to Mr. Sally and Lewis for sharing their truth today.

Please check out the show notes on the episode page, where I have enumerated a large catalog of resources, articles, books, films, and nonprofits related to today's discussion and current events at large. Check out the trailer for They're Trying to Kill Us on my Instagram page or on YouTube. And let these gentlemen know how this one landed for you by doing it on the socials. You can find Sally, at John Sally on Instagram and at the John Sally on Twitter. And John Lewis is of course, at Badass Vegan on Instagram and Twitter.

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Thanks to everybody who helped put on today's show, Jason Camiello for audio engineering, production, show notes, and interstitial music. Blake Curtis for videoing the show and creating all the clips. How do you guys like the new studio setup? It's pretty badass. Jessica Miranda for graphics. Davey Greenberg for today's portraits. DK for advertiser relationships and theme music by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Hari Mathis. Appreciate you guys. I love you. See you back here in a couple of days with another amazing episode.

Until then, be well. Treat your fellow brothers and sisters with gratitude and kindness. Peace. Plants. Namaste. Thank you.