The Rich Roll Podcast - Julieanna Hever: The Plant-Based Dietitian On School Lunch, GMOs and The Pros & Cons of Juicing

Episode Date: February 1, 2013

The beautiful & always delightful Julieanna Hever — aka “The Plant-Based Dietitian” — joins Julie Piatt and I on today's podcast to drop knowledge on all things nutrition and wellness. Together we hit on a wide variety of health-related subjects, including: *The joys & challenges of raising plantpowered kids; *The perils of school lunch programs; *GMO's and Prop 37; *Government involvement in nutrition education; *Combating entrenched & often outdated opinions on optimal nutrition; *Her recent television debut on the Veria Living network: “What Would Julieanna Do?” *What's the deal with Paleo? *Why most doctors and nutritionists / dietitians don't fully understand plant-based eating; *Tips for getting started the plantpower way; *Superfoods; *The deal with oils; *The pros & cons of blending & juicing; *Flu shots & vaccinating kids; And if you have a moment, we'd love it if you could toss a quick review up on the iTunes page. It's most appreciated! Thanks for the support and hope you enjoy the show! SHOW NOTES * Coca-Cola's new Anti-Obesity Campaign * The Onion: “We Raise All Our Beef Humanely…” * Julieanna's Website, The Plant-Based Dietitian * Julieanna's new television show, “What Would Julieanna Do?” * Julieanna on Twitter * Julieanna on Facebook

The Rich Roll Podcast. putting out two or three of these a week and life just seems to continue to intervene. We've been trying to reintegrate back into living in Los Angeles and it's just been a really busy time. And so it's been like, I don't know, over a week since I put one out. And it's interesting to see what happens to your iTunes rankings when you take a break. Suddenly you are eradicated, which is funny. But anyway, whatever. I'm not doing it for that. I'm doing it for you guys. And I'm doing it because I love it.

Again, it is really fun. And I am actively trying to find a clubhouse location, some kind of garage or industrial space or little kind of cubbyhole somewhere to house the podcast and create a studio environment where I can bring guests in and do it on a regularly scheduled basis. Right now, we're doing it out of the garage at our house, which is fine, but there's a lot of kids coming in and out. This is also the rehearsal space for my boy's band. Um, and it's kind of cluttered with a bunch of different stuff. And I'd really like to find like a place where I can just put it.

That's where it is. And, uh, it can be like a hangout. Um, that's my idea. So if anybody out there knows of anything in Los Angeles, please let me know. I've been looking on Craigslist and it's has not been that promising. I mean, I can find some stuff if I want to drive really far, but I'm looking for something pretty close to my house out here in the Valley or Calabasas or Malibu. And I'm looking at some stuff in Santa Monica today. So I will keep you posted on that. I do have some great guests lined up over the next couple days. I'm going to have my buddy Byron Davis on the show tomorrow. He's a friend of mine back from my swimming days.

He was an amazing competitive swimmer, almost made the Olympic team, and now he, among other things, he's a pastor and a life coach and incredibly inspiring, positive role model kind of guy. made the Olympic team. And now he, uh, among other things, he's a pastor and a life coach and incredibly inspiring, uh, positive role model kind of guy, uh, a good friend. And, uh, he's got a lot of cool stuff to say. So I'm looking forward to having him on. Uh, I'm trying to lock down Tim Van Orden, who's a plant-based, uh, distance runner, great guy. and also Michael Arnstein, who's been killing it out on the ultra circuit as a fruitarian. Also a really fascinating guy. I'm just trying to schedule all these people, Brendan Brazier, all the kind of plant-based people that you may have heard of,

and some other people that you may have not. And I think that, you know, I've been thinking a lot about what I want the podcast to be, and certainly I want to be able to introduce all the kind of notables in fitness and health and nutrition, plant-based fitness and all of that, kind of the people you've heard of, or, you know, quasi-celebrities in this field and whatnot. But I think I'm also going to bring on just some average Joes, you know, who have begun to walk this path and realize some positive changes in their life and get the perspective of just, you know, the average guy, you know, the dad, the working guy or woman or what have you. And so we'll see. I'm thinking about that. And if anybody out there

has any interesting ideas for guests, I'm all ears. Like I said, this is brand new. It's still kind of congealing and I'm trying to find my way and what I want to express and what I want this to be. But I'm ecstatic by the early feedback and the response. It's been really fun to do, as I always say, and I would like nothing more than to just continue to do it. It's really, really fun, and it's great to be able to share what I've learned with you guys and learn myself along the way. I certainly don't know it all by any stretch of the imagination.

It's great to bring in experts in their fields, and I'm learning as much as you guys. And at the same time, I think it's cool to be able to sit down with people and have this kind of long-form conversation. I mean, it's just something that you don't get to experience that often. We're all busy, and TV and radio, it's just something that you don't get to experience that often. We're all busy and TV and radio, it's all soundbites and you never get to kind of pull the curtain back and really get to know somebody. And unless it's a good friend of yours or you're at a dinner party and you get locked into some kind of conversation that gets intense, how often do you sit down at a table across from somebody and literally pick their brain and talk to them for upwards of two hours i mean it's sort of a lost it's sort of a you know a lost

art form and a lost uh a pleasure and uh it's it's a great honor to be able to do that with interesting people and the podcast kind of avails myself of that opportunity. And it's a responsibility too, and I don't take it lightly. So anyway, long story short, it's all good, and I'm as enthusiastic as ever about continuing to grow the podcast, and hopefully the audience will come. So I appreciate you for stopping by and being an early adopter, and look forward to seeing how this adventure will continue to unroll. Anyway, today on the podcast, we have Juliana Heaver, and she is also known as the plant-based dietician.

She's an amazing woman. dietician. She's an amazing woman. I met her about a year ago, and ironically, she lives just down the street from us here outside Calabasas. She's really cool and very, very active in the plant-based nutrition movement. She's kind of a rising star. She has a TV show, which just premiered the other day, called What Would Juliana Do on the Varia Network. And she's going to talk about that. She's written a bunch of books. She's the author of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, which is pretty cool. It's kind of a primer on how to get you going. And I think she also wrote another one, another Complete Idiot's Guide to Gluten-Free Vegan Cooking. So you can check that out too.

She did a TED Talk last year at TEDxCanejo. She's been on the Dr. Oz Show. She's been on the Steve Harvey Show. She's a beautiful woman. She's got great energy. And she really knows her stuff. And in this interview, we roll up our sleeves and and really get into it um and she shares a tremendous amount of great advice and she's just got a very

infectious bubbly personality she's tons of fun to hang out with and i think that you will enjoy the interview and uh like myself uh learn a thing or two about how to take your nutrition and your wellness to the next level. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment, an experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere

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how are you doing? I'm good. Thanks. How are you? Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. We're neighbors. We're neighbors, literally neighbors. We were just saying, like, the whole plant-powered, plant-based movement is all happening in Calabasas. It's the new hub. It's the new hub. This is the place to be. It's like the Seattle grunge scene for food. We're making history. We're the pioneers.

In suburban Southern California, right? That's amazing. I love it. Yeah. I know. So, Juliana, you're taking over the world in plant-based nutrition. That's right. We're so excited you're here.

Oh, thank you. No, not quite. We're all doing it together. I thought I was busy, but you have more things going on. I don't know how you do it all with kids and family and all that. I'm like a crazy person walking around. Yeah. It's crazy.

So, your TV show just premiered the other night. It did. Congratulations. I know. How was that watching yourself on TV? Okay, I do not like watching myself on TV. I don't like listening to my voice. It's hard for me.

I'm very hard on myself, and I'm like, why did I say that? So it's hard for me to watch. But it was exciting because this was a long journey, and it's exciting that it's actually happening. Cool. So how many episodes is it we taped 39 episodes oh my god wow that's amazing they already aired three i guess it looks like it's going to be new episodes mondays tuesdays and wednesdays three times a week that's

great yeah well that's good because it's a lot of content and it's it's you know keeps you in the well in the forefront that repetition really will help develop an audience. I hope so. The problem is that the Varia is not as well, it's not on a lot of networks yet. Right. So a lot of people are frustrated trying to get it. But there is an app where you can watch it live on a mobile app.

So it's called Varia Living Go. So people can watch if they can be on the app at 4 o'clock, or 4 o'clock Pacific time. But you can't watch it recorded. So is it on DirecTV and Dish and all that or no? It's on Dish. It's on Verizon Fios. It's on Cablevision.

And I think they're close to DirecTV because they were talking about it this summer. So I don't know where it's going, but hopefully enough people are going to ask about it. Right. And then do they have it archived on the Varia website or anything like that? I don't know. Or if somebody has DirecTV or something like that, they can watch it on a mobile app, but they can't watch it on TV.

Right, and they can't watch recorded versions that I know of. But we did do a few web exclusives, like we had an extra recipe, so we did a webisode. We did a few of those, and I think those are going to be on the website. And so what, so what happens in the show? You just set people straight? Like how does it go down? No, we have to be a little more subtle than that. You crack the whip? Yeah, no. No. And I mean like people the other day, this doctor was on and he's mentioned fish oil supplements and I'm just like, and I don't want to argue with the doctor, but it wasn't because it wasn't a debate so that was his opinion and you know and then i'm gonna i disagree with a few people but i made sure i the one thing that really mattered to me is that i didn't want any animal products

in the cooking demos i didn't want to i didn't want to you know i didn't want leather in the fashion and you weren't gonna fry up some bacon yeah You weren't going to fry up some bacon? Yeah, I was not about to fry up some bacon or make veal parmesan. I just did not want to even be in that situation. So fortunately, they were very supportive. More barefoot Contessa. Can you do that? Yeah, right. Wrong person.

A bunch of network executives. Like, could you just, like, maybe just one bacon dish? Yeah, we were concerned about that. But they were really amazing. They were completely supportive. Like even, I mean, this is for like the philosophical reason, I don't recommend honey just philosophically like for myself. So when someone would come on with a recipe that included honey, we would swap it out for something like agave or something. We're honey consumers.

Oh, okay. We call ourselves vegans. But it's all right. I mean, listen, you have to be a bridge for a mainstream audience, you know? And even on this podcast, like if all I had, if the only guests were like hardcore plant-based people, like I would, you know, run the gamut pretty quick and there'd be nobody else left to have on. And so I've had people on, even the last couple of guests are not plant-based people, but you know, they have their perspective on nutrition and we can have an open dialogue about that and we don't have to get into some crazy heated debate and whatever. And I can share my perspective and they can too, and that's okay.

I think that's so critical. I think if we're going to get this mainstream, we have to be more open to engaging in those conversations. And I think that that's the most critical thing we can possibly do. I mean, I think in the vegan and the plant-based world, at least it's changing now, but traditionally, vegans can be their own worst enemy because they can be so stringent and hardcore that it's just off-putting to other people and they're turned off. And people who might benefit from it or might enjoy it or realize these tremendous health benefits from giving it a try or just, you know, they have a bad taste in their mouth from, you know, some guy who lectured him or whatever,

and they just say, forget it. So, you know, I think what you're doing is great, and it really is this amazing time where plant-based nutrition is in the zeitgeist. It's in the mainstream consciousness. I mean, simply by virtue of the fact that you have a television show is incredible. And that would not have been possible a couple of years ago. So it's amazing. And I think it's really important to create a soft, comfortable landing pad for people who are interested in exploring it and make them feel like

it's okay. You can do this and you don't have to have dreadlocks and go live in the jungle and kick a hacky sack or whatever. I mean, we got to break those stereotypes and that's not what it's about. And I think that if you look at the goal of making more people, the most amount of people eating the least amount of animal products and the least amount of processed foods, you're going to get a much bigger impact

than if you have to be black and white. And I think that's what we need to start talking about and opening it up to the people that just close their ears when they hear the, you know, hear the word vegan or hear the concept. No, you can never have, you know, ever have an egg again. I mean, like people just get really scared of that. Right. Right. I mean, well, and also I think you have to allow people their journey because right. As we all know, I know for me it's like my you know my journey into plant you know plant-based eating has come in stages you know so it's like you know i was raised in alaska was just telling you before we started i was raised in alaska on you know mousse tacos and caribou meat and uh you know journeying through and then vegetarian

the paleo people would love you yeah they would they would. Well, they would. Yeah, exactly. But you know, it's, I mean, as we say in yoga, you know, it's like, you know, what's appropriate? You know, it's like, oh, you know, is meat appropriate? Or is this appropriate, this sort of practice appropriate? And the answer is, for whom and when? So it depends on where you are in your path. So we can't just come down hard line and say what's good for me is necessarily exactly what's good for someone else. So I think there's a respect and there's an allowing of someone else's path. And in that honoring, if more people just eat plants,

there's going to be a lot of shift into a better way. Well, it's an opening portal too. And I think you start incorporating more plants into your diet and then you start to feel better and you start to feel other areas of your life start to shift. And then you want to move more in that direction. And it's like you said, it's an allowing

and it's important to be permissive. It's definitely self-perpetuating. Once you start seeing the results, once people just try it or just like reduce their amount of meat consumption and feel how great they – they notice a big difference. And then, like you said, a portal. All of a sudden, they're doing more. They're asking more questions.

They're trying it more. It is, without doubt, the perfect word is it's a journey. And everyone has their own journey. And we have to honor everyone else's unique journey and not be judgmental. Yeah, absolutely. And what I also like about what you're doing is you have a very well-rounded holistic approach in that, you know, understanding that it all starts with food, but food is the beginning and it's not everything. Like you talk about relationships and you talk about raising kids and exercise and all of these other things that come into play. You know, it's a, it's a comprehensive thing as opposed to here's your,

you know, here's your dish and here's what you're going to eat for lunch and then just leave it at that. Yeah. I think there's much more to the point. Absolutely. I mean, we're holistic beings and we're all living in this world and it's very hard to live in this world and have a healthy lifestyle because we're, you know, constantly bombarded by challenges. We were talking about schools, you know, the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life

is raise my kids the way I want them health-wise, just how I want to feed them. It's been insane with birthday parties. How do you do that? I want to get back to the TV show in a minute. How do you navigate the birthday parties and school lunch and all that kind of stuff? What's your approach with your kids? It is insane. It is insanely challenging.

I actually gave a lecture on this last night, but it's, it's a journey. I'm as a mom, it's a journey for me because my kids are little still. So I'm just, you know, it's only been a few years that I've been doing this, but I, you know, I prepare for what's going to happen. I make, you know, I make their lunch. I will never trust the USDA to provide my kids with a healthy lunch, no matter what they say. And, um they say. And it's the preparation. It's like knowing if we're going to a birthday party to try to either give them something super healthy beforehand, bring stuff with us. But I had a really annoying, frustrating situation the other day. And I just wrote a blog post about this that I'm going to actually publish somewhere

about my son's basketball game. And afterwards, the assigned mom had handed out the treats, and I came over where they were all standing, and he was holding a package of Oreos, a package of Goldfish, and a Capri Sun. And this was his post-workout snack. And I just lost it. His recovery accelerator. Yeah, right? I literally grabbed it out of his hand and snuck it back in the mom's bag. I mean, it was really obnoxious. My kids crying, my husband, who's the coach, was like yelling at me. But I don't want my kid having to bond over high fructose corn syrup

and stuff that's going to be health damaging to him. So what do we do? I mean, I'm begging the public to take a stand on this. And I'm telling my husband, tell the other coach, like tell the parents make healthy snacks, make them healthy. I'll bring them'll bring them you know but I mean it doesn't have to be that difficult but I think we need and actually in the in the mainstream like that actually is healthy like she got a capri sun you know what I mean and a goldfish with like partially hydrogenated whatever do you tell your kids like no you can't you can't have that? Or do you give them, like, a little bit of a wider berth with that?

It's tricky. Like the occasional thing? Do you create a rule? Or how do you manage that? It's challenging because I don't want my kids to have eating disorders, of course. And I don't want to warp their minds and make them be afraid of food. Or socially stigmatize them with their friends. Yeah, and they do get social.

And that was a perfect example of social stigmatization. He was the only one that didn't get to eat that stuff. And he was really upset. And the problem is I'm not- He's going to be pissed at you. Get the therapist lined up now. I know, seriously. They're going to be blaming me for decades.

No, you know, I remember one time when Mathis was in preschool and this community preschool was just a mainstream thing. And the little boy, her friend was talking to his mom and he was like, you know, Johnny's, you know, uh, from Italy and Jackie is German and Mathis is organic. I can't use that. But you know, for me, no, but the preschool teachers would bring in bags of McDonald's every morning and sit there in front of the kids and eat their breakfast. I mean, one time Mathis was fed a chicken McNugget there like by accident, you know. But the thing is, this is how I go about it.

And, you know, being a mother of four and my oldest is 17 and my youngest is five. And, you know, the problem is that if, in my experience, if you hardline it too much, they're going to push against that, creativity, you know, plant-based nutrition and, and they will assimilate. So in the early, in the early times with my older boys, for instance, they were still eating, you know, some meat and then, and we never said, you know, okay, you have to be vegan, you know, so we just kept eating healthy things. And then, you know, now they're completely vegan and they're, you know, juicing and eating healthy things and then you know now they're completely vegan and they're you know juicing and blending and cooking all the recipes out of our cookbook and you know they're 16 and 17 and they won't eat they won't even eat pizza with their friends

but they made this decision so but it's trickier with the little ones and of course you know we always want to guard the little ones as you know as much as we can and you know neither of my girls have eaten meat and um you know i'm going through this with Mathis right now with our nine-year-old because, you know, she thinks she wants milk and it's giving her a stomach ache. So of course it's organic, but, you know, I have to walk her through it. Like, okay, you have a stomach ache. What did you just eat? So, you know, and also, you know, her conscious awareness of the hormones and how the animals are treated and all that stuff and she's you know a big animal lover of course as all beings are you know all children and all of us are at our core so anyway i think it's in this allowing and you allow them

again their process their journey and you're empowering them to make those choices you are that's the key that's the key if you can know, like if they learn how to make a recipe or whatever, there's a pride that takes over and a sense of ownership over that, that I think really will carry them in a huge, in a huge way. But if you're always taught, if you're talking down to them, then they're going to get angry. But I also do, I had a moment and, and, uh, with my dear sister, uh, you know, after the holidays,

we came back from Kauai and she wanted to see the kids. And so she walked in with like some toxic, you know, save on, you know, candy cane full of crappy candy. And I didn't even realize it, but my mouth said, are you going to poison my children? But, but I really, it just comes out, just come out. But, you know, I, I wasn't like heated. There was no emotion behind it. It was kind of this spontaneous thing. And so luckily she laughed and she actually took them out. She was like, she took them out and didn't give them to the kids. But I was talking to another mom, um, who's, you know, a plant-based nutrition, nutritionist, amazing woman. Um, and, uh, you know, we were talking about Halloween, like what a nightmare Halloween is like the quality of the, of the take on Halloween

is just, I mean, why can't we get like organized, like an organic, like I'm, I love chocolate, but let's just give them organic, like, you know, dark chocolate or things made with dates or, you know, gluten-free cookies, or we could make it really great, but we'd have to get a community where you, you only get trick or treated. I think we're a long way away from that right now. I don't know. Juliana and I might just fire one up. Hey, we're starting it in Calabasas. We should do it.

Why not? I am in. Okay, deal. I made it. Let's do it this year. Okay. I look forward to that. Stay tuned for that.

Yeah, because they should have treats. I don't want them to feel like they can't have treats, but I want those treats. I want them to appreciate those tastes, like those naturally made bars and candies. yeah they should definitely enjoy you know it's it's amazing and you know our five-year-old is drinking you know kale smoothies now and you know it's like it it's they're they're catching it and the other day mathis went into the store and her choice was you know an evolution juice i was like wow look at that you know normally i'm having to just remind her you know, you don't need to go for the sugar, you know? So it's, it's cool. It's

great. See, they're traveling their journeys too. Yes. It's a process. It's a process. So the TV show though. So tell me, tell me like what is, so it's a half an hour. It's a half an hour. And so what do you, so I assume you, you're doing're doing recipes, and what else happens on the show? You know, the last two out of three episodes didn't have any recipes, which was disappointing because I like doing the recipes, and I had a lot of great guests on that do recipes. But it's not really a cooking show. It's a talk show format.

So we have nutrition. We have a lot of doctors, naturopathic doctors, nutritionists, psychologists. We did a lot of psychology, talked about relationships, parenting, fashion, beauty. A lot of fun, different, you know, homeopathy. We had a pet show. So we had these dogs on the ASPCA come on and a naturopathic veterinarian. We had like a rekindling the flame, you know, so we had, that was fun. That was our first episode that we shot. We had a man show. So we had Rip

Esselstyn and some other firefighters. And it was like a real like, you know, manly man show. And we just did all sorts of things. We did a pregnancy episode. I had a pregnancy bump. So we went through that whole thing. I mean, we kind of did it with a lot of humor and fun. Like, it was really light. But with, you know, tackling some major issues. But we really had fun doing it. I had a really creative, fun production team. Cool.

And did you shoot that? You shot it in New York? We shot it in New York. And you did all the episodes at once. So you're not taping now, right? Right. We taped 39 episodes in five weeks. Wow.

Five weeks. That's a heavy workload. And was it a five-day work week? Yes heavy workload. Was it a five-day work week? Yes, it was a five-day work week. Except we did a couple things. Sometimes we had to shoot the intro or the show open on the weekends or whatever. All right, so everybody watch it so you can do a second season, right? Yes, we can have you on.

Yeah, you didn't make the man show. I know. Well, you know, I'm still working on my man life. There's still time, honey. You'll be the man 2.0 revisited show. There's only so, when Rip is around, there's no more, there's no room for any other manliness. He's man enough for four people. He holds all the manness.

Oh, come on, there's room. So how did this whole journey begin for you? I mean, were you like right out of the gate from the beginning interested in this or did something happen that made you keenly interested in nutrition or plant? Like what is this? What's the story? I know everyone has a story. I have a lot of like multifactorial stories that kind of all converged in a really interesting way. I guess the first one would be like my grandma when I was little, you know, pointing out, you know, Oh, why do you eat bananas for the potassium?

And, you know, like it was she kind of got me interested in nutrition. And I was always interested in eating healthy. Me and my sister would have those cereal boxes when we were eating our cereal in the morning. And we'd have these quizzes like how many, you know, how much percent calcium is in there? And I would always get it right. It was like I just loved that stuff. So you were like a freak of nature. You were a born nutritionist. I was was and it's just kind of funny that's awesome it's awesome i love i don't know why i just love and i love food

i would go to people's houses and sit down in there in front of their pantries and stare into their pantries and look at what they eat and what is your background what is your lineage uh eastern european mutt okay yeah all sorts of hungarian chocolate. You're beautiful. Thank you. It's for you. Thank you. Did you grow up in Southern California? Born and raised a valley girl. Yep. I'm one of those weird, yeah, my mom too.

I'm a second generation valley girl. Wow. That is a rarity. So then, so you go into school. And you're not blonde either. And I'm not blonde. I know. That's also just.

I struggled with that growing up. So you go into school and college and all of that and you already knew this is what you were going to do or? No. So then it was all, okay. So it's all convoluted. So my nutrition story is different than my plant-based story, but they came together. So I, then I wanted to be, of course, like, cause I grew up in LA, I wanted to be an actress and I was a dancer starting at four. My mom says I danced before I walked and I used to do all these performances. So I was acting and I was doing a lot of theater and Shakespeare and I got the agent and all that. And once I started with the agent, when I was like a teenager, they kept telling me

I had to lose weight because you have to be very, very thin, you know, to be in Hollywood. And I was always struggling with my weight and, um, because I wasn't naturally skinny, skinny. So finally in college, my manager sent me to a trainer personal trainer oh and that's the other thing i used to like teach aerobics classes when i was five years old so i loved exercise too and i would do jane fonda with my mom and yeah watching perfect over and over again with john travolta i love that stuff love i mean i would do those videos with my mom with the weights i use the cans of food to work out and did you have a headband? Had definitely. That's excellent. Yes. It was all flash danced out. Oh, flash dance. It was like it changed everything. So there was all these things came together. So I started working out with this trainer, finally got down to my ideal

way, eating my protein and veggies, you know, like the egg whites, like 18 egg whites a day and the vegetables, asparagus. And I got really skinny, you know, but then I got sick all the time, and it was miserable. I was like not someone you want to be around because I was forcing it. But I did fall in love with personal training and became a personal trainer and decided to – everyone was asking me nutrition questions, and I didn't want to answer without knowing why I was answering what I was – like I wanted to know the science behind it. So I signed up for grad school right away and went and studied nutrition, became a registered dietitian and quit acting, which is what's so funny because it kind of came full circle again.

I was going to ask you if you had a background in acting. Yeah. See, it's all. Yeah, I do. My undergrad degree is in acting. That's amazing. Yeah, I did. I was in a Shakespeare.

I was a theater company and I did a lot of acting. But I love that stuff too. But it was, I didn't like being judged for, you know, what I look like or who I knew and who you're going to sleep with. Honestly, it's like that. Right. No, it's not. It is. But it's really a pretty beautiful setup. Look how your soul just planned this whole thing. And now it all comes together. Oh, I like the way you say that. My soul planned it. Yeah. It came together.

And the plant-based part came in totally differently when I was like a young teenager, right when John Robbins' book came out, Diet for a New America, like in the 80s. Here, sorry. Talk more in so I can, I think we're. Sorry. There we go. Oh, much better. I always feel like I'm talking so loud, so I try to stay away.

No, no, no. It's much better. Okay. So I read Diet for a New America, And once I found out what happens with animals in the factory farming, I wanted nothing to do with it. And so I was like, I was a teenager. So I quit eating animal products, but I didn't know how to do that properly. And my parents had no idea what to do either. They were like, Vedja, what? What are you talking about? Something's wrong with her.

Oh, yeah. My weird kid, you know, my messed up kid. My sister was the perfect one. But I was eating fruit rolls or, you know, rice cakes and Diet Coke because I didn't know what I was supposed to be eating. So I wasn't thriving. Well, there weren't really any resources then either. I mean, there's no forks over knives. There's no movement. There's no books.

Right. Exactly. And so it was a struggle. And it didn't last very long because my parents got so scared. And they had their nurse friend talk me out of it. Right. And that was it. And then I went back, but I always knew that that was the right thing to do. It's what I wanted to do. More like from a philosophical perspective. I didn't know the health part yet. It made sense though, health-wise, but it was this long journey. So then I just kept reading and reading and reading and reading. But it wasn't until I finished graduate school and had the ability to analyze research objectively that I have full confidence in that this is not only philosophically something I believe in, but health-wise, there's no better way to eat.

And that's when I felt – that's when I'm interested to hear what you think about this, but the people that I get kind of typically the most grief from, with some exceptions, but are dieticians. They'll say, oh, well, you shouldn't be doing this and you should be doing that. And I feel like they're sort of regurgitating a program that they heard in their schooling or whatever. I don't begrudge them. That's what they were schooling or whatever. I don't begrudge them. That's what they were taught or whatever. So, but they seem to be the people that are the most resistant in general now. So for you to come out of like a program like that and have a different perspective, I mean, how did that happen? And what do you think is going on with the schooling for dieticians currently? I'm so glad you asked this because this is something that is so passionate for me that I

go crazy about. When I was in school, knowing what I had read and continuing that reading and learning about Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicine and seeing how it just didn't make sense, in my classes, I would look at the literature that they were providing us, and there was the little small writing on the bottom saying funded by the dairy council. It was clearly coming from a biased source. Wow. That's amazing. It is.

And you know, as a, then it was the American dietetics association. Now it's the Academy for nutrition and dietetics. I wish they spent their money doing our money, my money doing more productive things and changing their name, but they're funded, name. But they're funded, proudly sponsored, proudly sponsored by the Dairy Council, the Beef Association, all of them. So there's money mixed into the scientific conclusions. Yeah, of course. And yeah, just follow the money. I mean, I had Dr. Michael Greger on the show, and he was kind of walking through how all of that works.

And I know he's lovely, right? He's an amazing guy. He's the best. But he was saying, he's like, listen, you know, who do you think is going to pay for all this stuff? I mean, there aren't, you know, like maybe there are, you know, sort of co-ops of, of broccoli growers or whatever that could like pool their money to, to, you know, perform some research that will establish that this is a healthy food. But overall, there's nothing in it for them and it's too fragmented. And so, you know, it's only those big corporate entities that are going to be able to come up with the funds to perform this research that's going to substantiate, you know, their findings and promote

their business concerns. I mean, that's just the reality of it. And we're seeing it, you know, we saw it recently, we're seeing it now with the dairy industry and all their, their sort of smear campaign against plant-based milks. And the recent thing with Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola getting, you know, doing this big splashy new ad campaign about how they're combating obesity. I mean, it's, I mean, you're right. There's, there's no way out of it that we know of, like there's no way out of it in that, in that realm. The only thing we can do is education. And some people believe that we need to pressure the industry, the food industry, because the education isn't working fast enough. But I think it is. I think that the education is starting to have a breakthrough. So you think it's changing? I feel like we're definitely on a tipping point or at the precipice of something major happening because there's so much more awareness, because there's now two plant-based shows out there on TV. What's the other one? There was one, there was this guy, Jason Robel,

who lives here too. He did one called- He's in Calabasas too? No, no, we got to get him out here. We really do have, it really- But he did one episode and hopefully there'll be more, on the Cooking Channel, and he's a vegan chef. Right. So I think that those, you know, and the success of Forks Over Knives, there's a success of all these books that are coming out, including yours, which was amazing. I loved your book.

Though I think that's a sign of people wanting, you know, thirsty and hungry for this information. And we're seeing people just get better. I mean, people that get better in extraordinary ways can't stop talking about it. People want to know what they're doing. So I think through that, I think it's starting to spread and I think people are going to have to pay attention because we're just getting sicker and fatter.

It's like we're on this downward spiral and we have to keep just talking about it. No, I mean mean we definitely feel that i mean you just feel that in your own community like when rich and i first started you know uh you know blending vitamix and you know serving you know plant-based options and you know now we so many people i mean a lot of people are changing and starting to you know incorporate more plants it's like just igniting it's like one person is igniting the next and the next and the next and the next and the next and the next.

And I think really the main thing and sort of the theme for the moment on the planet is we have to take self-responsibility. So it's like, I think we're done. Any aware person is sort of past listening to a government or an agency or anybody really tell them some story. If you start talking about it too much,

you start to sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist, but it really is true. It's like we're being downright lied to in some cases, and there's so much misdirection and misinformation and obfuscation, and it's hard. I mean, it starts with the food pyramid and goes from there. I think that might be the number one problem is that people are so confused. Right. You know, I need my protein. Where am I going to get my protein? Oh, that's the first question always. Oh, yeah. But I mean, people are really,

like, they're scared. I work with people every day. They're scared to give up their meat. They're scared that they're going to die. Because they've been told their whole life that they need to eat dairy. Because, you know, this messaging is so, you realize how effective that messaging is because you just can't get people to let go of that idea. I think the dairy campaign is the most brilliant campaign that ever was. It is so, it's so deeply ingrained in us. I mean, it starts in preschool. And it is very hard to let go of that

because that's what we're taught. I mean, that is a threat of our being. So letting it go is very challenging. And that's why they need a lot of people like us, educating people that are in the medical field. My husband's a doctor, and he takes this information back to his hospital, and they laugh at him.

You know, when the whole genetic, we, we were all here for prop 37, which shocked me. Horrible. Don't even get me started. We'll be here all day. I know I could go on with this too. Oh gosh. But my husband was just for people.

Sorry for the listener who doesn't know prop 37 was a, was a ballot initiative in California last year that had to do with requiring food manufacturers to label food products that contain GMOs or genetically modified organisms. And a lot of money was poured into this from the larger food companies, the Monsantos, et cetera, to defeat this. And they were successful, which is shocking to me. And they were able to confuse people enough to get them to vote this thing down that at its core, all it did was require labeling. It was an informational thing.

Like if you're going to buy a GMO food, it has to be on the label that it's GMO. That's it. And they were able to, through very creative advertising techniques, to make people think that it was something else and scare them to defeat it, which was shocking. And originally people were, oh, yes, of course. Why wouldn't I vote yes on this?

Of course. Until this campaign was launched and millions of dollars poured into that campaign and it was so effective that it won. I couldn't believe that it didn't pass. But my husband, we were really loud about it. My husband, too. he's really tough. Like I wish I had this kind of where you guys are doing this together, you know, where you're both on the same exact page. Cause my husband and I are not, you know, he's, we, we have this, you know, I'm putting it

out there. It's, it's a challenge even with my husband. Um, but he, with the genetic modification stuff, you know, I showed him, we watched genetic roulette, you know, I was reading the book and I was sharing him, with him some information. And he was, he got really into it too. So I was happy to find that was, we had a unification on that. And he took that to the hospital and they were like, oh, please.

Oh, come on. They make that up. Yeah. That's not really happening. I mean, and these are doctors. These are the ones that are dispelling this information. Well, doctors can be tricky too in the same way that dieticians are

because they've gone to school and there's a, there's a sense that they know best. They know everything. They have all the information and you don't. And let me tell you, I sat in, my husband and I were together when he was in medical school and I sat in on his nutrition lecture and it was exactly this. Oh, goiter, they get, they're iodine deficient. Ricketts means vitamin D deficiency. And that was pretty much the extent of their nutrition education. So they do not have current, I mean, I think it's getting better or they're trying to, they do not have an education in nutrition. So, but people always go to the doctors first. In fact, if me and my husband are at dinner together with friends,

they will ask him the nutrition question. Right. Yeah. I'm not surprised. And, and quite frankly, the first question any doctor should ask you when you go into for your doctor visit, whatever your condition is, is what have you been eating? And I mean, has a doctor ever asked you that? That's I know. Amen. And when I, I used to have all these GI issues, like really bad, they called it IBS or they called it, you know, we didn't, no one had a diagnosis. For years I was going to the doctor and not once, not once did they ask me about my diet. Yeah. That's amazing. So, you know, after your bypass surgery, take your Jell-O and your macaroni and cheese, the food in the hospital.

I mean, that is the most incredible thing. That would just kill you in and of itself. You're feeding sick people like the worst the worst food imaginable and it's only recently are they only recently are they trying to get rid of mcdonald's in the hospitals they have mcdonald's in the hospital lots of hospitals have mcdonald's in there oh my gosh and other fast how did i not know that hospital in children's hospitals yeah good you don't want to go that's amazing that is shocking so when I was in my dietetic internship, I had to do rotations all over the place. I had to do them at the hospitals, schools. And I saw, I mean, it is uglier than we even think it is.

I mean, it's ugly, but it's even uglier behind the scenes. And what do you mean by that? Well, with schools, for instance, in the cafeteria, like in the cafeteria, like I was in the back on the computer putting in and putting what the cafeteria, like I was in the back in the, on the computer, putting in, inputting how, what the kids were eating to submit to the USDA to continue to get their commodities and all of that. You know, you have to kind of submit, make sure they're getting their, the school, what the recommendations are from the USDA. So I would put it, I would put in what they were eating. And then I noticed that, wow, it's really high in fat compared to what, they wanted it to be 30% or less. And it was like 40% or whatever. So the woman that was running the food service director said to me,

oh, just bump up the ketchup and that'll bring up the sugars and that'll lower the fat. Right. Right. Wow. Because we need to keep getting our commodities. We need to keep getting our, you know, our funding for the school lunch program. Yeah. It's not an easy fix. There are too many vested interests in all of this. And there's a lot of money at stake and there's a lot of money at stake, and there's a lot of political lobbying. I mean, you look at it and you're like,

well, you've got to change this, and it's not so easy. Well, and if your children are going to school every five days a week, most of the year, for how many years does one go to school? Like from kindergarten through 12th grade. That is a big part of their developmental really health. And so it's, it's really more dangerous than you even think about it because then you're just like, oh, you know, you could think in your mind, oh, well, they're

just going to school and they're just going to eat that one bad lunch, but it's every day, five days a week for that many years. That's not good. No. And when they're young and growing, their cells are rapidly dividing. And that's when they're most vulnerable and most exposed. Like their DNA is most exposed at that point. So that is the most critical time for good nourishment. And we're neglecting that. Right. It's just French fries and pizza.

Yeah. Oh, and they count French fries and ketchup when they tally up how many servings of fruits and vegetables people consume. I know. Really? Well, I mean, really, that the one of the main focuses of our homeschool we were homeschooling with two other families last year and um you know we would prepare this vegan lunch together and so the kids were chopping and really it was for time management i mean a lot of time actually was spent on the meal you know and we were kind of trying to figure that out. Like,

you know, call the meals taking so much time. Um, but it was such a good investment and the kids learn and they, they all ate, it was ages four to 13, um, seven children.

And they all ate a full spectrum of, you know, leafy greens, vegetables, you know, and it, and we would would make it a lot of times like a bar or like Ayurvedic sort of style. And that was one of the most enriching experiences that we did together for these three families. And then I saw your kids making smoothies just now, wimping out the kale. That's just, obviously it paid off. I mean, that's amazing. It has. And I mean, I think it's just, again, by example. And I mean, I had a cyst in my neck. So

I came to diet through, because I was always skinny. So I never had to diet for weight issues. But I actually was very, very sick as a young child in junior high. My parents worked. I was the youngest of five kids. And I was eating at school, um, lunch and afterschool at like a tasty freeze. And so all of a sudden I'm 13, which is like a dairy queen or something like that, you know, like chili hot dog or whatever that is. So all of a sudden I start, my bowel starts bleeding, right? And they take me in and they do this whole test. And again, they didn't ask me what I was eating. But you know, I look back on it. And you know, it's directly related to diet, actually. And then later in my life, I had this cyst in my neck. And I was told by, you know,

three different surgeons, they would have to cut my neck, I could not heal it. And then I went to an Ayurvedic physician. And we had talked about it at length on the podcast, so I won't talk about it again. But I basically drank eight herbs and followed this protocol of a specific diet for over a two-year period and I healed it completely myself. So that was a real demonstration, but it took a very strong will to do that. And I'm very strong. Like if I'm, I'm kind of a rebel, so I kind of make my own way. So if you tell me that I can't do something, I'm probably going to figure out how to do it. You know, have that little kind of, you know, mischievous part of myself, but you know.

Right. But then a lot of people aren't that strong. That's the thing. And their doctor says, oh no, you better drink your milk. And they get scared. And that's when they come to me. Exactly. Right. So other than the protein question, I mean, what is the big thing that you're fielding with the people that you're working with, with your clients? You know what I'm getting a lot more of now than I had in the past? I always got this, but I'm getting a lot more of fear about soy. I get that a lot. I get the dairy question. So it gets back to your question about there's a lot of confusion.

And I think there's a lot of confusion even within the plant-based movement. There's these different divisions. You have the hardcore fruitarians, and then you have the no-oil people, and then you have people that are advocating coconut oil as a superfood. And it's confusing. And I'm still learning, too. And soy. Should I eat soy? Should I not eat soy?

And everyone has a different opinion about it. And so it's easy to kind of throw up your arms and go, well, these people can't even agree on this. That's, I think, a huge problem for the movement. And we really need to come to terms with all that and kind of at least support what we're saying and support one another because it does become this vicious, like, no, I'm right. No, he's right. No. And it's like this war. And it's not about that. I mean, the bigger message is the overall diet and that you're getting people to eat more whole food plant-based. That's what we want. I think we need to unify that message. Otherwise it's going to be more confusing and people are going to give

up and just go have their bacon cheeseburgers. Right. They're saying, yeah, forget it. Like when they get it together, call me. But you know, until then, like they don't even know. So they must be wrong. Exactly. And I see that all the time too. All right. So what about soy?

Okay. What about soy? Well, the people that are more medically oriented or the people that like to hear from those organizations will be happy to know that the American Institute for Cancer Research came out with recommendations in November and December saying that two to three servings of soy is perfectly healthy and actually can be preventative for breast cancer and certain cancers. And they even said people that are breast cancer survivors are safe to eat one or two servings a day. But safe is sort of a far cry from good for you. Well, I think they're trying to ameliorate people's concerns.

And I think there's a lot of funding behind anti-soy, probably coming from the dairy industry, if I had to guess. But the soy industry is huge in its own right. It is. It's probably one of the biggest plant-based industries, too. But the thing is that eating a whole soy, organic, especially because they weren't dealing with the GMOs, if you don't do organic soy, but a soy like tofu and edamame and soy milk are really healthful foods. They've got a lot

of nutritional properties that are wonderful. And there is evidence to suggest that it decreases the risk for breast cancer. I've seen more evidence suggesting that than the opposite. But it's when you get into the process. So I see people saw all these benefits from soy products. So then, you know, the scientists go to work in the lab because they want to isolate the nutrient that's responsible for the health benefits, pop it in a pill, and make millions of dollars. So they did that.

You know, and they were trying with the isoflavones, and they were trying to find, like, what's that one nutrient in the food that's making the magic. But we know that that doesn't work. That never works. When you isolate it from the whole food and turn it into some kind of supplement, it's not bioavailable. It only works when it's embedded in the matrix of the food in which it originally existed in nature. Exactly. Because look at what happened with beta-carotene, those trials. They tried it on smokers. and when they put the beta-carotene supplements into those smokers, the ones that were taking the beta-carotene versus a placebo were dying faster, and they had to stop the study early.

So that's the thing, is that when you get it from the whole food, there's a synergy that takes place between all the thousands of nutrients, most of which we haven't even identified yet, and that's where the magic comes in. So I think anytime people have been afraid of soy, they should also be afraid of any other processed food or processed ingredient that's put into a supplement. It's not the food itself. What about the phytoestrogens? I mean, I've been told it's the phytoestrogens in the soil you got to be careful of, especially if you're breastfeeding because it can cause some damage to the fetus. Is that true?

Is that not true? No. I mean, that's where the benefit comes in. Those phytoestrogens block. They basically block estrogen receptors in the body, which is good because it's weaker than the human estrogen. So it prevents like excess estrogen levels in the body, which is what can promote sex hormone related cancers like breast cancer, prostate cancer. So it's actually beneficial. Those phytoestrogens are a phytochemical that are beneficial. They're heart protective. It's bone protective, you know, because when women go through perimenopause or menopause,

they decrease the amount of estrogen in their blood, and that leads them to increased risk for osteoporosis, osteopenia, and heart disease. That's when women overtake men in their incidence of heart disease. What about if you're a guy? It's perfectly safe for men as well. So basically what you're saying is make sure it's a non-GMO version. Make sure it's non-GMO. What about sprouted? Well, the sprouted and the fermented is better too, right?

Like I usually, I try to eat more tempeh or miso versus just tofu. I've heard that that's better, but I mean, they're all good. Again, like I don't like to make everything one superfood. I think those are all good foods. But I don't want anyone to eat a soy diet. It shouldn't be like, oh, soy is good for me, so I'm going to have soy milk at breakfast, tofu for lunch, and a hunk of tempeh for dinner.

It should be like part of a varied diet with anything. I don't think anyone should eat only one thing ever. You should vary your diet because then you get a wide array of nutrition. But it can be very supportive to women, especially with hormonal support and these kind of issues as a whole food a couple servings a day is perfectly perfectly wonderful except now it's gonna because of prop 37 it's a little harder to know whether it's gmo or not i guess you assume it's you assume it's gmo unless it says otherwise no it's it has to be

or it has to be uh non-gmo if it's organic So if you see the USDA, you know, GMO, I mean, organic label, then you know that it's okay. Right, and I always try to use sprouted. Yeah. Because it sort of just raises nutrition. And what about oils? I mean, you know, the… Yeah, let's talk about oils.

How do you feel about oils? Well, you know, the China study, you know, people in the Engine 2 people are very, you know no oil no oil and and and the research and the evidence you know very strongly suggests that that you know that cutting out those oils has a significant impact in you know preventing and reversing heart disease and these other sort of congenital diseases and um and believe in that. I think that that is true and a wise protocol, particularly for people that are in very poor health. I mean, I would suggest that they get rid of the oils, but what about like using oils in moderation or, I mean, where do you come down

on all that? Okay. First of all, I want to clarify, it wasn't in the China study. Dr. Campbell's work was the protein because I think a lot of people do say that and I just want to make sure I want to take him on. But he sort of subscribes to, because Esselstyn and Campbell are kind of, they're bros. Yeah, they're bros, but he doesn't really, well, anyway, what Dr. Esselstyn's work was on people on their deathbeds with really end stage heart disease. on people on their deathbeds with really end-stage heart disease. And that's why the no oil, the low fat diet was really effective, part of the reason. So I think people, I look at it on a spectrum. And again, I don't want people to go, oh my gosh, I can't have oil too, forget it. But now I deal with a lot of athletes. I deal with a lot of healthy people. I deal with kids. If they're going to have a little oil in their diet, they're going to be okay. They're going to survive. They're

not going to die of a heart attack just because they're having a little bit of oil, but it's if you're sick. So I look at it on a spectrum of how healthy you are, what your activity level is, how your weight is. I think the quickest way to drop weight is to cut out oils because it's such a concentrated source of calories, you know? So I've seen a lot of success with people cutting out oils for reducing their cholesterol levels, lowering their weight, decreasing their body fat, stuff like that. But for athletes that are expending thousands of calories a day that need to get more calories in, some healthier oils are fine in moderation. Right. I mean, I use oils and I try to be moderate or sparing, but I need a little bit of oil in my diet when I'm training a ridiculous

number of hours. But yeah, I think the sort of thumbnail thing is it's very calorie dense and it's not very nutritionally dense, right? So if you're going to be using oils, you're going to gain weight. There's a lot of calories in a teaspoon of olive oil or coconut oil. Yeah. It's like one cup has 2,000 calories. Right. It's insane. 2,000 calories, whereas a cup of olives have 120 calories. That's like one cup has 2000 calories. Right. It's insane. 2000 calories. Whereas a cup of olives have 120 calories. That's a dramatic difference. And it's easy to get a cup of olive oil on your salad, you know, or in a day. Right. It seems like nothing. Yeah. It seems like

nothing, but it really adds up. So for people that are trying to, you know, get those calories in, sometimes, you know, they need some of those oils like you, you know, someone like you, it's, there's nothing wrong with that. If your cholesterol is normal, I'm assuming you have great cholesterol. It's fine. Yeah, then there's nothing to worry about. Yeah, I mean, but people that are, you know, yeah, they're about to suffer a heart attack or they're severely overweight or their health is in very poor, you know, in a very state of disrepair. I mean, I think that going, you know, doing the no oil thing is wise to kind of back yourself off the ledge.

It's very effective for people like that. Even if you're trying to drop 10 pounds or something, that's a really effective way to go is just to cut out the oils. Cool. And what are your favorites in the oil category? See, I don't like recommending them. I guess I would say like a hemp seed oil or a flax seed oil if you're trying to get in those calories because at least you're getting from omega-3 fatty acids, which are more rare in our diet anyway. But what about for cooking, for like coconut oil or grapeseed oil?

Yeah, I'm impartial because I really don't recommend the oils unless it's someone like that. I mean, so I don't. I mean, coconut oil has a lot of the saturated fats and then there's some evidence that, you know, piques your interest. Well, if it's helping certain people, but I haven't been convinced that it's a health food yet. I'm not on that bandwagon with coconut oil. Um, but I know, you know, it tastes good. I know a lot of people like to cook with it. It's good at high temperatures. So for some people that's, that's something they can use if they're, if their cholesterol is healthy.

I don't like even recommending oils because then people think that, oh, it's a free, go ahead, yeah, have as much as you want. Right. I think there's also confusion about making smoothies in the Vitamix and juicing as well. And there's a camp that says, forget about juicing, forget about Vitamixing because it too can be very calorie dense or very high in sugars. And for people that are in poor health or are trying to lose weight, you know, they're inadvertently taking in a tremendous amount of calories without realizing it. They'll drink a Vitamix and think, oh, this is super healthy and good for me. And not knowing that there's 1,000 calories in there

and a ton of sugar from the fruits or whatever. Personally, I love juicing and I love making Vitamix blends, and it helps my training and it helps power me and helps me recover. But I think that this is just my personal perspective, and I'm interested in hearing what you have to say, that there is a place for it. But there is a camp of people that say you shouldn't do that or you should avoid it. And there's something about masticating your food and the kind of digestive enzymes in your mouth that take place when you're chewing because you're taking in those calories more slowly and your body can adapt to it and stay away from the Vitamix. and your body can adapt to it and stay away from the Vitamix. Well, I just wrote an article about this because I did the Dr. Oz show in October and we did a green smoothie cleanse, a three-day cleanse.

And I knew that this was all going to explode when that show aired. So I finally wrote the article. I've been wanting to write for a long time, looking at all of the arguments against green smoothies. And my opinion is that it is overall an extremely healthy thing to consume. I mean, I've never seen anyone get unhealthy on a green smoothie or a green juice. And if you go to those places like Hippocrates or True North, they are dousing them in green juices and stuff like that

and oxygenating their blood with these people that are coming in with stage four cancers. But I just can't imagine a healthy person getting unhealthy by drinking vegetables and fruits. It's just ridiculous to me. Yes, chewing is good. So I'm not saying you should be drinking green smoothies three times a day, never chew your food. That's ridiculous too. Even that cleanse was not my cleanse, but I think, you know, for a couple of days, it's totally fine. But I think that one a day or, you know, a few a week or whatever is totally fine for the healthy population. Now, if you've got some crazy level of, you know, really uncontrolled diabetes, maybe you'll see a spike in your insulin, I mean, your blood glucose, but you should be testing that

anyway. And then once you get yourself healthy, you'll probably be fine on it. But there's always exceptions to the rule. There's no perfect formula for every person. And I think that, you know, a lot of people do. I have yet to see anyone do worse by integrating a green smoothie or a green juice into their diet. And if people hear that message and they go, well, I'm not supposed to, you know, I shouldn't have a kale smoothie for breakfast, so I'll just eat my bacon and eggs or whatever. I mean, that's insane. And, and, you know, frankly, like nothing makes me feel better in the morning than having a kale smoothie. I mean, you know, it's, it's amazing. Cheers as I drink my green smoothie. If everybody just had it.

Brianna, what's in yours this morning? What do you have in there? Mine in this morning, I've got, I've got three different types of kale. I've got spinach. I've got, I've got mostly greens. And then I've got a little bit of blueberries and pineapple and a little bit, tiny bit of mango. And I actually threw some Vega powder in there today. I don't normally do that, but I was trying it out. Shout out to Brendan. Shout out to Brendan. He's also in the hood.

I know. Well, today we had, in ours, we had an organic orange banana, some dinosaur kale, chia seeds, and some water, filtered water. Yum. Yeah. I love the smoothie.

I love it. Some cacao, too. I love cacao. Chia seeds brings up another thing I wanted to talk to Juliana about, which is superfoods. And superfoods is a very sexy subject right now. It's so sexy. Everybody's all about, oh, yeah, it's totally happening. We're just going to strip right here. Everybody's all about, you know, oh yeah, it's totally happening. We're just going to strip right here.

It's just so amazing, the tension right now. It's even sexier when you say that. When you said superfood. Well, I think that it's this, people think it's this panacea, you know what I mean? Like, oh, if I just, if I eat acai and chia seeds and maca powder

and you know, whatever it is that I'm going to be healthy without kind of taking a look at what else they're eating. And I kind of look at it. I think they're all great and I love them and I use them all the time, but I sort of see it as the top of the pyramid. If you're having chia seeds every day, but you're eating like crap the rest of the day, what's the point of that? I mean, you got to clean your diet up first, right? Absolutely. I mean, people, it's the same thing as popping a multivitamin and eating the standard American diet thinking, oh, I'm gonna

take my vitamin. I'll be fine. But it is, it's the big picture. And I think we, I think that's how we can unify this message is by looking at the big picture. You don't have to have acai or chia seeds to have ultimate health. You know, it's just, it's, yeah, it's like the, you know. It's the final like 1% or 2%, right? Yeah. And there's no research saying that that stuff is going to make you healthier than eating just a whole food plant-based diet without those superfoods, you know, but I think that leafy greens are superfoods and stuff we can get at the market for a lot more affordable prices are

superfoods and the elimination of the health damaging foods. I think that if people start looking at it on a spectrum, I think things look a lot more doable and a lot less scary and intimidating. Like the idea of eating more leafy greens and beans and whole grains and legumes and less hamburgers, you know, you know, chicken breasts, fish, all that stuff, processed foods, the better off in the long run. So it has to be more open and more of a spectrum than like this perfectionistic attitude, because it's a little intimidating to a lot of people. Right. The, you know, second only to the protein question, the question that I'm asked the most is, you know, what about paleo? Like what's wrong with paleo and paleo is so popular right now, especially for athletes, you know,

and this whole CrossFit thing and all of that. So, you know, what is your perspective on that? Or what, how do you deal with someone who comes to you and says, everybody says I should do paleo. Like what, give me a compelling reason why, you know, I shouldn't do paleo and plant-based is better. That's such a good question. I get it all the time too. I actually had a really cool opportunity to do a challenge on the Steve Harvey show where we did, I was representing the vegan camp and then there was a paleo guy and then there was another diet that was similar to a vegan diet and we put them to the test, the weight loss challenge. And it was just exclusively weight loss. And it was one month, and my girl has six kids, full-time job, like this amazing woman.

And the other girl that was on the paleo diet was getting ready for her wedding and has no kids. So she was like she could probably lose weight, just whatever she did. But it was very interesting. The results were very interesting. At the end, those two tied for weight loss. But my girl, Joyce, she worked out maybe four, three, four times a week. The girl on the paleo diet had to work out twice a day, every day.

And I think she said something about being not satiated and everything. But she liked eating her meat. But so weight loss-wise, they lost the same. So that's one argument, that lost the weight without all the exercise. But here's the other thing. You can lose weight, but what about what's going on on the inside? You know, what's going to happen with that long-term consumption of meat? We know that long-term consumption of meat is not healthy. A study came out yesterday looking at, I think it was Epic, looking at heart disease risk. There was a 32%

decreased risk of hospitalization and death from heart disease for people that are on a vegetarian diet or more plant-based diet. So long-term studies suggest an increased incidence of chronic disease just from the meat consumption. So yeah, you may do well in the immediate results from following a paleo, but long-term, that ingestion of cholesterol and saturated fat is probably going to get you. And the other philosophical argument for it, which a lot of people don't really care about, unfortunately, is that we would need, I heard it was quoted, that we need about 10 earths to sustain people on a paleo diet,

if everyone followed a paleo diet. Because you would need so much grass pasture to raise the— Because it is so resource-intensive to raise animals. It is thousands of times more, hundreds of thousands of times more water and land. We're just destroying our earth from producing that much meat, and to consume it on that regular of a basis is not sustainable. Right. There was a really funny article in The Onion the other day that I tweeted.

I forget. I'll put it in the show notes, but it was like the perspective of a grass-fed beef rancher. And he's like, here at Happy we raise our we raise our beef you know they roam yeah humanely and they roam the grass fields and and have this amazing you know life and then we bring them into the barn and we hang them upside down and slit their throats while it was like it was like only the way the onion you know could do it it was really funny the way they did it but um you know i think that it. Happy cows. It was really funny the way they did it. But, you know, I think that that is an important argument.

Unfortunately, it's not one that sways most people because they want to lose weight. And I think the thing with paleo and like, listen, I always say this, like eating paleo is much better than the standard American diet. And people are, you know, I'm not out to get the paleo people or anything like that. And I know lots of people are on a paleo diet and they like it and you know hey more power to you but um you know and and it's it's sexy for guys too because it's masculine it has this like you know i'm eating you know organ meats and all this sort of thing and it's kind of it's kind of silly if you back it up and think about it it's not like they're going out and hunting but that's the idea is that's the idea like getting back to the way the cavemen eat which by the way was is not this way they didn't know i know well there's a there's a huge emphasis

on the hunting part and not so much on the gathering part you know and so it's all about like meats but i'm you know i think that the the anthropological research that purportedly supports this way of eating is spotty at best. But I'm not an anthropologist either, and I don't hold myself out to be. But I would say that I think that one of the foundation, correct me if I'm wrong, but part of it is this notion of ketosis, because you're eating in this sort of high-fat, high-protein diet. It's very low in carbohydrates because you're not supposed to eat sugar and no grains and all of that kind of thing. And that will catalyze a physiological response that will cause you to lose weight. But it's not a long-term, sustainable, healthy approach to losing weight. And I know a lot of people that, you know,

they'll do paleo for a while and it's great, but then they have these intense sugar cravings. And ultimately, they end up going off it and there's a rubber band effect that I've seen with people. They put the weight back on and then they got to go back on it. And as opposed to adopting a sustainable, long-term lifestyle approach to eating that I think plant-based eating avails people that will allow them to be healthy in the long run. And so they may not have an immediate dramatic weight loss, like lose 10 pounds in a week or whatever, but they'll be able to adapt a way of living and a way of eating that they can adjust to in a long-term way. that they can adjust to in a long-term way.

I think that was brilliantly said. I ditto. I agree completely. And I also think that people need to be aware of their long-term health implications, and I think people are looking for the immediate. They want weight loss. I mean, paleo is all about loss you know but you could do weight loss with plant-based absolutely people lose a lot of weight really quickly too yeah but without the long-term sequelae you know like it's not dangerous but i mean isn't the other issue i mean today where we

are where we are living um there's an awareness and a need to simplify and also to understand that we are part of a much bigger organism. We're a microcosm of the macrocosm. So here we are on the planet. And if eating meat is causing so much wreckage to the planet, there needs to be awareness in really the whole picture because we're a whole living organism. So that is important. to be awareness in really the whole picture because we're a whole living organism. So, you know, that is important. That is important to actually start to, you know, have that awareness and look at things beyond just yourself and your body and, you know, really, you know, just a physical sense, you know? That's what I love about getting people from the health end because people do care about their health first. And I mean, okay, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong

with that. I'm not judging that decision. But I think that once you get people afraid of their health and making changes for their health, it leads down that path to opening up to that conversation and noticing that connection, that macrocosmic perspective. And that's what I think is so beautiful about eating a whole food plant-based diet is that it connects you naturally.

And I see a lot of people gravitate towards that philosophy and understanding of what's bigger, the bigger picture after they've been integrated from that health perspective. Yeah, absolutely. It is the portal. Yeah. I've found that I've sort of expanded in unexpected ways. I just wanted to feel better. I wanted to lose weight, just like a lot of people or most people. But it really did change my perspective on a lot of things. Like, I didn't get in it to save the animals, but I think that, you know, as I walk the path, it's impossible to not become more aware and more compassionate and more concerned about, you know, the ecological issues and the humane issues and all of these things that come up are byproducts or incidental to changing your diet. And I think that, I don't know. I mean, it's opened me up in

ways that I didn't originally anticipate happening. Yeah, but I mean, watching some of those films are actually looking into how is our processed meat harvested and what is that process exactly. And instead of turning your eye and pretending, you know, that they just, you know, miraculously appear in little cellophane packages on a, you know, on the shelf in the refrigeration section. But really, I mean, you know, for us, I mean, a big catalyst of change for us was the film Earthlings, which we actually, it was Rip. We were with Rip Esselstyn at one of the first VegFests, you know, I don't know, five, six years back or whatever. And we got that DVD. It was a very small festival. There was only a couple people.

And the Esselstyns were out there, you know, doing their good work. It was right when Engine 2 came out. Yeah. Yeah, it uh yeah yeah it was funny there was like five nobody there was nobody there five people in woodland hills and we were two of the five and then rip and and his parents well there was a booth set up for that earthlings yeah come out and unfortunately i don't remember the filmmakers and names but sean watson oh thank you awesome no it was it was epic you know and the thing is is we brought it home and we started to watch it with you know my older boys and oh you did oh yeah but literally we would turn it on and then they'd be they were mom mom turn it off turn it off like it would get too and we'd have to turn it off and they'd breathe and they'd go

okay turn it back on and that was literally when we actually looked at what was happening because even you know like even in a kosher sense you know like you're um was happening. Cause even, you know, like even in a kosher sense, you know, like you're, um, you know, you're told that, you know, the animals prayed over and harvested in this sacred way. And I mean, I always say, you know, I don't like to have rules in my life because in a, in a yoga perspective, you know, that's, um, that's a, a hardness or a suppression, right? So I live my life from within spontaneously. So I always say that if I woke up and my body told me that I needed a piece of meat, I would find some wild hunted meat and say a prayer over it and eat it as medicine. Like I do, you know, I do advocate

that. I would do that. It hasn't happened yet, and I don't see it happening, because I don't need that, because we're living in this modern world, and there are other ways. But by looking at the vibration, when you see a movie like Earthlings, and you really understand the violence that is perpetrated against these beings. They are living beings. They are not nothing. And you see the violence that comes from the person that's harvesting the meat. You know what I mean? It's like they take on the anger. So when you're eating that, you're ingesting that frequency. And that's going into your body. And the hormones themselves, not just the frequency, but actually biochemically. That movie was instrumental in my husband's choice. As soon as the credits were rolling,

he said, I will never touch animal flesh again. And he was resistant before. But that was the most painful movie I've ever watched in my life. But I think everyone should have to watch it. It's brutal. It's tragic. Yeah, you should be allowed to eat meat.

You should have to tour a meat processing plant and watch that movie and go through some kind of education process. And if you're cool with it after that, then knock yourself out. Right. At least watch that movie because that movie is powerful. Because when you don't know, you can't make decisions when you don't know. Well, the whole system is set up to prevent you from understanding and knowing. You're meant to be completely insulated. And even like the butcher shops

in the back of the supermarkets, it used to be where it was all out front. You could see it. Now they hide it. They don't want you to see any of that stuff going on. Yeah, it's ugly and it's very sad. But I also think that that uh you know the other argument that gets presented to me is like well you know the studies suggest uh that um humans you know that the human brain evolved when we finally became this you know civilization you

know put its roots down and we we became agricultural and started eating meat more. And then the brain expanded all of a sudden. I'm like, okay, so that's an argument. So I'm trying to understand how that translates into an argument to that meat is healthy for you. Like, are you intending to evolve within your lifespan? Like, are you trying to expand your own brain? Like, I don't understand. I mean, and I think that, you know, my perspective on that is that, well, this is the next step in evolution

because now we have a choice. We have a choice and we don't have to eat those things. We can survive, not just survive, but thrive and perform as an athlete and all of those things without eating those things and be healthier. Like, why would you not do that? I wonder at what point everyone's going to realize that we don't have very much of a choice because it's, we're, this is not sustainable. We're not the way we're living right now. We are literally just, I mean, not to be a fatalist,

but it there's, it's going to come to an end. I don't, you know, I don't know how many years, if it's decades or centuries, but we can't, this's going to come to an end. I don't, you know, I don't know how many years, if it's decades or centuries, but we can't, this is not something that can last forever. So at some point we're going to have to pay attention. And did you, that movie that the Lorax, you know, did you see the Lorax, the Dr. Seuss movie? I love the message. It's about this land where, where they have to buy bottled oxygen because there's no more trees because

it was all cut down. It's basically like a force of like, it's almost like a foretelling of what could possibly happen. And I think that that's an absolute possibility. I've been talking to Dr. Richard Openlander. He's brilliant. He wrote the book Comfortably Unaware. And he has a great lecture online, like on YouTube, that just talks about the statistics of what's happening at a global level. And this is just completely unsustainable. And we're not going to be able to keep doing this. So at some point, we're going to have to do something. Right.

One of our first guests on the podcast was this guy, Hendrikus, who's like a soil whisperer. He lives in Kauai and in Seattle. And he deals with his company, manufactures organic fertilizers and he helps revitalize soils that have been devastated by, you know, petrochemicals and fertilizers and the like. And to hear him kind of pontificate on the state of our farmlands and how nutrient poor they are and how we really can't sustain, our soil can't sustain the crops that we're trying to harvest on it. It's not something that can continue. And I learned so much from him. One of the things that he said is, even though if you go to the

farmer's market or the grocery store and it says organic and you buy it and you think, well, this is good, he goes, well, you still don't know what kind of soil that organic produce was grown in. Because if it's been depleted of its nutrients and it's very nutrient-poor soil, it may be organic, but the food that you're getting is not as good as the food 80 years ago or whatever that you would have gotten out of the land. It's really scary. And that is not, we're not really looking at that or addressing, we're just making that worse and worse. And how does that all play out? I mean, I don't think it's a stretch at all to be fatalist about it. Yeah. And I think it's more imminent than we think. I really do from what I'm hearing from people that are

environmentalists and agriculturalists and that are looking at this information and looking at the data and the changes and the global warming and all of that. It's really real and it's happening and people don't want to believe it or they want to deny it because then they have to make changes and it forces you to look at your own habits and your own, the way you're living in this world and it's uncomfortable. So what do we do? Tell us what to do, Juliana uncomfortable. So what do we do? Tell us what to do, Juliana.

Oh, what do we do? We just have to tell people about this and educate them and have them exposed to the experts and listen to those, you know, the numbers. The numbers are startling, you know, and I think we have to make choices. We have to start living more carefully and strategically. And what's so beautiful is that what's best for our bodies is also best for the planet, also best for the animals. And that to me is important. Amazing how that's rigged.

It's like it's rigged, but it's so obvious, yet we've gotten so far away from that, that that sounds shocking and silly and hoity-toity, but there is such a deep connection and everything is like one energy and we have to come back to that spiritually. And Dr. Campbell's new book talks a lot about this and I think it's brilliant because it takes that holistic approach and it just looks at everything from outside of the paradigm. And I think we all need to start looking outside the paradigm and look at the bigger picture more, take that bird's eye view. And that will make us have to listen, I think. Well, we need to be paradigm breakers and shifters,

and we need to have courage. And we can no longer think of ourselves as separate. We cannot. There's no luxury left in that. So now's the time. We're. So now's the time. Now's the time. Yeah, I had a couple more questions I want to ask you. And this is kind of a hot button thing,

but I'm interested in knowing what your perspective is on vaccinations and flu shots. I have some strong feelings and opinions on that. I'd love to hear your opinions. Every year around the fall, winter, when the flu vaccines come out, it becomes a war. And actually on the flu vaccine, my husband agrees and we just go back and forth. Should we, shouldn't we? This year we just didn't. And I always conveniently forget or conveniently just, I don't, I just don't think it's necessary if you're eating healthy and you're doing everything you can to support your immune system. But then, knock on wood, now if my kid gets sick and gets the flu, I'll feel horrible. But I just, I'm so on the fence on a lot of it.

I did not want to vaccinate my kids, my second kid. My first daughter, I didn't know so much back then, and we just did the regular schedule. But then when I was pregnant with my little one, I was reading and reading, and I was horrified. I was like, I can't believe I did this to my first kid. But my husband as a doctor, a traditional doctor was not traditional, but like an allopathic physician. He's adamant about how many lives it saved. And we struggled with that. So we compromised in that he let me break up the schedule and do it much slower with my little one. And so he's had almost all of them already at a much more widened space. But, yeah, it's a very hard problem.

It's tricky to navigate. and say, I'm not going to vaccinate, then you're some crazy lunatic person and you're harming society because you're arguably, you know, putting somebody out into our culture who could infect other people with this or that. And then you read, oh, well, you know, there's all these toxins in these vaccinations and there's this link. And, you know, listen, I'm not, you know, an expert on this. I mean, some people will tell you that there's a link and, you know, listen, I'm not, you know, an expert on this. I mean, some people will tell you that there's a link between some of these vaccinations and the rise of autism. And I don't know whether that's true or not. There's enough sort of discussion about it to raise an eyebrow and make me concerned. And we ended up not vaccinating our two little ones.

The boys are vaccinated. And I'm just interested in hearing everybody's, because I don't know what the answer is to it. Well, I mean, I think, first of all, I'm not in favor of vaccinating. And I would never take a poison into my body in fear that something might happen to me. It's completely fear-based, and it's looking in the future.

But you can't deny that it saved thousands of lives. Right, with polio and smallpox. Yeah, but is polio relevant today? But because of vaccinations, it's not. But are they still vaccinating for polio now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but is it still needed?

Every once in a while there's a little sort of cloistered outbreak of it or whatever. But, you know, vaccinations, you know, save millions and billions of lives. And we've never, you know, in our modern era, we've never like suffered any kind of dramatic plague like situation where it's become relevant. So it seems like a distant you know thing that could never happen i i believe that there are uh children um that have energy systems that are very very sensitive to these kind of things and that they they actually can serve as poison and they can produce you know effects like autism you know there's been a lot of cases. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not schooled to like speak on it and, you know, in facts right now, but I know from the community that there are a lot of

special energetic kids that their systems are very, very sensitive. Oh, wait, let me, let me, let me answer that. What I, my perspective, I think it's not, I don't think it's a vaccine. I think the vaccines, first of all, that inundation when they're little, like thousands of vaccines, but I don't think it's that I think the vaccines, first of all, that inundation when they're little, like thousands of vaccines. Right, the frequency. But I don't think it's that. I think those kids that have those energies or those weaknesses or those susceptibilities, if you would, is more because of our diets and because of our environment and because of the toxins everywhere else that it's weakening our immune system. It's weakening our, you know, our GI tract is more porous and it's letting in these proteins that are causing us to be more sensitive and have these, I think I would blame diet and genetic modification and the depletion of the soil first before I would go to the vaccines.

But I think that you are maybe more sensitive and predisposed so that maybe that's, maybe it can trigger it perhaps, but the research has not showed that yet. And the fact that it saved so many lives and the fact that so many people got scared and stopped it because of those things that came out. By the way, that one study that took place in England on the MMR and autism was debunked even by the researchers that were on that original study. So there hasn't been research to say it completely.

Wasn't there like Jennyny what's her name jenny mccarty mccarty yeah who who you know basically she has an autistic kid right yeah but she speaks out of it she gets a lot of grief too you know for that because she's an actress and she doesn't know what she's talking about and all that so she's an easy target she's an easy target for that but and what is she feeding her kids like what you know what are they and what was she eating during pregnancy like i think those are things where we should focus the energy instead because i think the idea of saving a kid from you know what's it called pertussis has had a recent has been having recent outbreaks measles or mumps one uh i think it was mumps measles one of them was coming back last year

because of people not vaccinating. I think that that's more dangerous perhaps. And I think we need to really focus on the other factors, the environmental factors. You know, I think that's. Well, I mean, all the factors, you know, weigh in for sure, but I'm totally not in agreement with vaccination. Right. And then, you know, but then on the, on the flip side, you have, you know,

like your husband's, you know, most doctors, like if you listen to Dr. Drew, he goes out of his mind when people start to say, you know, I your husband, you know, most doctors, like if you listen to Dr. Drew, he goes out of his mind when people start to say, you know, I don't want to vaccinate my kids. He goes crazy. And he's in, he's on the radio pounding, you know, you've got to get your flu shot. You've got to get your, you absolutely, you're insane if you don't get a flu shot. And then I heard him on a podcast the other day and he's like, oh, I've been sick for a week. And my kids are sick. My kids have the flu. I'm like, well, I'm sure you had your kids get a flu shot, but you have the flu? I've never had a flu shot. I never get sick. My kids never have flu shots.

Listen, in fairness, doctors are seeing a lot of patients are exposed. They're in hospitals, they're exposed. They're more likely to get sick because they're around a lot of sick people. But it is funny. And I never get the flu. I'm not going to get sick because they're around a lot of sick people. So, you know, but it is, it is funny. And like, I never get the flu. We didn't, I'm not going to get a flu shot. I'm never getting a flu shot. I think a flu shot is different than the ones, the other vaccines. Also the flu, I realize there are brilliant people that are coming up with these, these, these flu shots every year, but is it not true that, that these, these viruses like morph and evolve. And by the time that they're sort of out there, they've changed significantly from the vaccination strain and arguably the flu shot is ineffective. Yeah. And you've injected it in your body. Along with other garbage.

I'd almost rather get the flu and get the flu shot and maybe get the flu or not. Yeah. I think the flu vaccine is a completely different story than the other vaccinations. I think that those other ones are more like life-altering, unless the populations that are at a higher predisposition to die from the flu, like little children or seniors or people that have immunocompromised systems, I think that it's a different story. But for the general population, I think that, yeah, I don't like the flu vaccine, but I think it's a different category

than stuff like MMR and DTP. No, but it's like, and we're also talking about these big organizations and let's talk about the money aspect. Let's talk about the money aspect of the pharmaceutical companies and why should I trust them? Why should I trust that they're creating a vaccine

that's really for my benefit? Maybe that's not it at all. They told me milk was good for me, right? So you can't, you know, it's like, I have a very strong opinion about it. I really, you know, in my own experience, you know, my family, knock on wood, were very healthy. And, you know, we practice, you know,

healthy eating habits and exercise and spiritual connection. And it's like, I'm certainly not going to go put poison in my body because somebody said something, and they're afraid that something might happen. I respect that. I see both sides of this story very, very boldly. I very passionately see both sides. And it's a tough one for a lot of people. And I mean, our kids have not been vaccinated. And I mean,

I vaccinated my older boys only cause I didn't have the awareness that I had, but since then, you know, they haven't had, you know, they haven't had any. And you know, my little girls knock on wood, you know, extremely healthy. And of course, you know, we homeschool, so we're not around a lot of sick people, you know, and we eat the way we eat and uh you know um but and also my personal story also from healing myself from this system i throw in what the doctors told me and you know they categorical categorically told me i could not heal myself through plants and

herbs and you know i just think you have to really make your own way and take your own responsibility yeah i think you know i don't think anybody you you or I, at least Julie, are not saying that we're any expert in this. I think it's a personal responsibility issue and you have to make the right decision for yourself and do your own research. But don't just do something because somebody tells you. Because somebody's telling you something on the news and like creating a fear-based wave or something.

And the other thing is, is I just need to speak in support of of this mother jenny i'm what's her last name yeah like i don't want to leave that at that with her because the thing is is um i advocate supporting mothers and mothers know their children and i don't think she's a crazy person i think i didn't say that i didn't say yeah but i mean the way that you said it was like, oh, she takes a lot, and we kind of just brush her off. I said because she's an actress and a playboy model or whatever. She's an easy target for somebody to criticize. Okay, I understand, but I'm just going to say, just to be clear, that I support her as a mother, and I trust her. I trust her experience with her own kid. And I wouldn't will that experience on any, on any mom

or any family. And so I have great compassion and no judgment about her or her journey. And I know that there are, I mean, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to get schooled about it and like research because I'm, you know, I'm the spiritual meditator. So I'm not the one here with the facts and figures, but I'm going to take this opportunity to look into it so that I can speak on it a little more. There's a book of people with similar experiences like her that it triggered the onset of those symptoms. But to be more on a proactive approach is that I'm seeing people, we, not me, but we are seeing kids reduce their symptoms of autism, spectrum disorders, and ADD and ADHD by changing their diet.

Well, of course. And we advocate all of that in its environment. And I'm speaking on a panel next month. So of course, it's all of the stimulation. It's all of it. But you take a kid with a system like that and you inject them with poison, it could have some very, very adverse effects. So I'm just saying, I support parents in knowing their children

and knowing who their child is because no person is exactly the same. And again, it comes back to self-responsibility and making your own choices. And I know that I made the right choice for my children. I know that. What's frustrating too, though, is that as soon as they come out of your body,

they're shooting them up with stuff, like instantly. So you don't even get to have that chance to get to know that. What's frustrating too, though, is that you, as soon as they come out of your body, they're shooting them up with stuff like instantly. So you don't even get to have that. I for sure, for sure, absolutely would say what you did is the, is the wiser choice to not inject them with anything. And, you know, and I advocate, you know, a, you know, a time with a child. And I think this should be, you know, uh, be supported more in the US as it is in maybe France or other countries where the mother is really sequestered with the baby for a good period of

time to get that baby established, get the breastfeeding and the nursing and everything established, and really protect that new energetic with care and awareness. So I do think that that could really maybe be the best of both worlds for somebody who was on the fence is to actually stretch that schedule out and don't do it, maybe wait a year or two years before you inject something. Yeah. And the problem is you have to find a physician that will work with you. My doctor, fortunately, has been very, she laughs at me and she sends me literature, but she knows who I, you know, like what I believe in and she's respecting it. And she's like, okay, okay. And so she's worked with me, but a lot of physicians are like, nope, sorry.

Well, we were with, uh, Jay Gord. He's also very, has a very, uh, interesting personality, but he was awesome because, you know because he just was like, listen, because my mom at the time was sending me newspaper articles and all that stuff happens. And he was just like, have your mom call me. I talk to grandmothers all day long every day. But his experience is he told me that he unwittingly poisoned thousands of children in the first part of his practice,

and he absolutely stands by that. Yeah, he's very hardcore anti. He's very supportive for natural healing and stuff like that. So, you know, I mean, and I think actually, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, I think I did give Mathis, my nine-year-old, one vaccination. And I can't remember what it was for, but he basically told me,

I came to him and said, well, I was told that she needs this vaccination. And he said, she doesn't need it. He said, but I happen to know the time that this was created or the manufacturing channels or whatever, and it won't hurt her. So if it makes you feel better, you can go ahead and give her this one.

So I did. I can't remember what it was. Maybe it was feel better, you can go ahead and give her this one. So I did. I can't remember what it was. Maybe it was whooping cough or one of those. I don't know. I remember when I finally gave my son his MMR. It was supposed to be at age one or two. I think one, the first one. And I waited.

And so it was recently. How long did you wait? I waited five years. Well, that's long. I waited. And I put it off. Because I had this predisposed fear from reading all of those experiences from the moms from that shot.

No, it's not substantiated in the research. But there was something in you that spoke to you. Because when I was pregnant, I was hit by a drunk driver. And while I was pregnant, everything was fine. It was mild, thank God. But I had to go for massage, for physical therapy. Poor me. But I met this woman who was very spiritual.

And honestly, I have not been able to find her since. This is like one of those angel stories, I think, because while she was working on me, she said, your son who's in you right now is going to be very important and don't, you know, listen, you know, don't give him vaccinations. And she talked about her son is autistic, this whole thing. And it just like, it was stuck with me. I was like, well, maybe she was there for a reason. And I don't know know so i had this fear of this mmr so anyway but he had it and he survived i didn't sleep for nights but he's established already at that time so you know yeah you have a much better you know it'll be a lot easier because your immune systems are so fragile at the beginning and they just

they just inject them with like 10 shots oh it crazy. I definitely can't imagine how that's safe, that inundation of shots initially, like all at once. Like that does not sit well with me. It is a hot-button topic. You were right. Well, I'm the only guy here, so I have a different… What do you mean the only guy here? I mean, you're the father of these children.

I think it's different with the mother and the baby, too. There's a different connection there. It's true. You know, I just, you know, I just, I want to support mothers in, in, in their judgment and their choices in the care of their children. That's all. I like that. I like that a lot. All right. Well, we've taken up a lot of your time, but I don't want to wrap up without asking you a few questions. I mean, there are a lot of people who listen to the podcast who are kind of plant curious. I love that term. Plant curious.

I love that. You know, like they're kind of they're dancing around it and they're, you know, entertaining the notion or whatever, but maybe aren't quite there yet. And is there anything that you could kind of impart as a first step or, you know, something that would be easily incorporated into a person's busy life that could, you know, help them feel better or, you know, get them, set them on a new trajectory? That's such an excellent question. And yes, just go in there with an optimistic, fun challenge of an attitude where it's like, I'm just going to try this. I'm just going to start incorporating new recipes into my diet. I'm just going to try that funky looking lentil that I've been looking at and have no idea what it tastes like. And I'm going to go Google it and

find a great recipe to make with it. Just experiment and have an open attitude. It doesn't have to be perfection. It is a journey. We all have our own journey. And it shouldn't be scary or difficult or negative. It should just be really fun and challenging in a good way. Because I think that everyone that tries it loves it. It's very rare that someone is, oh, I can't do this. I've had one person just not be able to do it and it

was for other reasons beyond, you know, it was for psychological reasons. And I think that everyone benefits from eating more whole plant foods and it doesn't have to be all or nothing. So just jump in and try. Right. I mean, I think the default perspective is to focus on all the things that you can't eat. And if you can flip that and look at the prism through a different way and say, well, I'm not gonna worry about that. Let me just focus on all these new things

that I've never had before or getting more of these things onto my plate and worry less about what you're cutting out, I think that that is empowering and kind of relieves the pressure a little bit. Absolutely. I tell people that all the time is that it's positive. It shouldn't be, oh, wait, I can't have blah, blah, fill in the blank.

And they start getting overwhelmed. And stop thinking about that and just crowd out your diet, the bad stuff, by eating all this good stuff. Look for colors, look for nature, look for different recipes and ingredients that you haven't tried. Maybe at the farmer's market is a good place to start. You may find something that looks beautiful and catches your eye. Well, try it.

Make it fun. And definitely, the food is delicious. So enjoy your food and find stuff you love and travel your journey. Right. And if you really are at a very beginning place, like you're on first base with this whole thing and not really sure where to turn, I think the first thing you should do is pick up The Complete Idiot's Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition. Oh, thank you.

Nice plug. Nice segue. And who wrote that book? Oh, Oh, thank you. Nice plug, nice segue. And who wrote that book? Oh, I don't know. That's a good gig, like to get in on the Complete Idiot's Guide. How did that happen? Actually, it was really neat.

You know, Brenda Davis, she's a vegan dietitian. She's my mentor. I love this woman so much. She was asked to write the Complete Idiot's Guide to Vegan Nutrition and she was too busy writing three other books at the same time. She's just amazing amazing so she referred me to the agent looking and I submitted three table of contents and and got the job and I started writing it and I wrote I

submitted a big plea to change the title from vegan nutrition to plant-based nutrition because I wanted to take out the philosophical point of view. I'm a dietitian. I'm not an ethicist. I'm not a philosopher. It's like I wanted it to be strictly on my expertise, which is the nutrition. And I submitted that, and I said, I think we'll reach a larger portion of a larger audience if we change the title. And finally, I convinced them. And I think that that was a really good idea because I think more people were open to the idea of plant-based as a term back then when we wrote it a couple

years ago. And yeah, it was, it's really exciting because I think it's like all the hows and whys of plant-based nutrition for the starter and for people that, you know, have those questions about soy or dairy or all that. And it's all in there. Right. So when you go to buy the Complete Idiot's Guide to Photoshop or whatever it is you're trying. Right, so when you go to buy the Complete Idiot's Guide to Photoshop or whatever it is you're trying to learn, just pick up the plant-based nutrition one too. You can learn everything all at once. Right, and you contributed also

to the Forks Over Knives cookbook, right? Yeah, both of them. Both books. I did, yeah. Which are crazy. They're still like New York Times bestsellers forever. They're just rocking it. That's what I mean.

That's part of that tipping point is that people are starving for this information. Pun intended. We want good, healthy meals. And those are great resources, tons of good recipes. Del did an amazing job on this second book. He's cool. I met him in Toronto his past year. He's awesome.

Yeah, I just spent time with him in marshall texas for the first time and i love him he's amazing i wanted to go to that event i can't something happened something fell through the cracks like i think i was invited and then something happened and i don't know what happened i ended up not going was that cool though tell me so this is the marshall every year in marshall texas get healthy marshall last year well last year was the first year and it was just me and Dr. Neil Barnard. And it was really cool. I mean, Dr. Neil Barnard gave me a ride in the car, and I just love that man.

So I was like starstruck. I'm just like, you know, I was like, what can I ask him? I just watched Super Size Me with our nine-year-old daughter the other day. And I hadn't watched the movie in several years. And I forgot how entertaining and amazing she's in my book on my show Alex Jameson oh his former girlfriend yeah I don't think they're together anymore right and Dr. and Dr. Neil Barnard it makes it is in the movie too it's in the movie yeah I didn't wish I didn't realize he's everywhere he's I don't know you know what

thank God for him because he not only is he everywhere getting the message out in so many beautiful ways, but they're the ones, PCRM, are doing such amazing things with the food policy. That's where we need them to focus a lot of energy. They're making strides. Yeah, he's awesome. And by the way, when I finished my book and I was kind of sending it out to people to try to get blurbs for the back cover or whatever something happened and the one that got sent to him got lost in the mail and I didn't hear from them for a while and I I called me oh we didn't get it and I was like oh man you know like all overnight you won so we overnighted another copy of the book to him and he literally read it like that day and then sent me an email I was like I love this book and he gave me a blurb like

immediate like usually you gotta like stay on people people are busy you know you know i know he did that for both of my books like wow what an amazing guy that he would you know because i'd never met him or anything you know and he just actually we did meet him at one of one party one event here but um but it's not like we knew each other yeah he's extraordinary he's doing so many good things i mean i think he's making a huge difference paving the way for a lot of us right cool so marshall sorry we got sidetracked oh so last year was just us and this year it was like huge and the whole town of marshall is like going plant based this town in east texas is like plant-based the restaurants are all vegan that weekend is that the town that's just outside of austin okay now No, I'm very bad with geography, but we fly, I flew into Shreveport, Louisiana. So I don't know. It's very far. Yeah.

It's like, it's kind of like very far from anything, right? I think so. Yeah. You have to get on a little, so why Marshall jumper? Because this group started at the mayor, Ed Smith and his wife, Amanda Smith started this group, get healthy Marshall. And they had this group last year. They had, we had about a hundred people this year. there were like 350 people. They had to have three parts to the venue, like three venues where they were doing events and fitness. And it was incredible, cooking demos. And everyone there is plant curious or completely plant-based and really passionate. The restaurants shut down and did all vegan for the whole weekend. And there were lines out the door to eat. In fact, one time, the line was so long cause we got there late cause I had just given a talk.

So me and Del and Lindsay Nixon, happy herbivore, we, um, we didn't want to wait in line cause we were starving. So we were like, well, where else can we find in Marshall, Texas? She had a car. So we ended up at some Chinese buffet, you know, like restaurant that was open. Cause not a lot of stuff is open on a Sunday there, but we walk in and you know, it's fried, deep fried, you know, like restaurant that was open. Cause not a lot of stuff is open on a Sunday there, but we walk in and, you know, it's fried, deep fried, meaty, like just, you know, the word and, you know, everyone in there is obese. And, and, um, but we, it was just like the most unhealthy environment, but I was there with two New York times, bestselling chefs, cookbook authors. So we came up with like some pineapple rice with the white rice and the pineapple and the scallions. And we made a meal work, but it was but it was it was so funny and but you know

even Marshall Texas is completely that's amazing you know I mean so if you don't think that there isn't a movement afoot you know that a town like that could like it could literally take over the whole town and get people excited I mean it's incredible what an incredible time absolutely you know it's very exciting cool all right I think we did it. It's a beautiful time. Yeah. How do you feel? Do you think we did it? I think so.

You guys are so awesome. I don't know. I could talk to you all day. I know. We could keep going. So, Juliana is everywhere. She has her TV show, What Would Juliana Do? on the Varia Network.

Very good. Yeah, Varia Network. Very good. Yeah, Varia Living. Even people that work there don't know how to say it. And her website has tons of great information. It's plantbaseddietitian.com. Not the, it's just plantbaseddietitian.com, right? Right, plantbaseddietitian.com. Cool.

And you can watch her TED Talk. She did a TED Talk last year, which is pretty awesome. Yeah, thank you. And what else is going on? Do you have appearances coming up? Yes. What is going on? I always have to look at my calendar to know where I'm going to be tomorrow.

But I'm doing a few idea conferences, fitness conferences, which I love because I get to put the plant-based message in with all the trainers and the instructors. I'm doing a couple of those. I'm working on the next couple books probably. That's the whole exciting. Couple books. Yeah, I've got a couple things that I want to do.

And what else? The show and TV, trying to get more of those appearances. And we're just working it out. My goal is to get this mainstream. That is where my goal is. I want everyone eating more plants. And we're trying to to put that out there i've got a team now and we're just trying to get it out and our uh plant-based halloween project right we're gonna get i'm serious and i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna inspire you have a team i want a team how'd you get a team it took

me a long time to develop my team but i'm so happy to have them yeah juliana she has a tv show and we're in our garage doing the podcast i know it's great this is fabulous you guys are awesome but i would encourage uh uh people all around to uh create their own neighborhood vegan or uh you know um create your own marshall no yeah create your own marshall and also create your own halloween uh what do you think we could start with Valentine's Day. That's coming up. That's right. Let's make that healthier.

Try to get a group of people together to supply healthy treats. Good sweets, but made with whole fruits and dates and stuff like that. It takes a village. We need to come together. I mean, we need that society, that community really badly because it's like going upstream, you know, with these like the basketball game snacks and Halloween. We just have to start with Marshall and now Calabasas.

That's right. We're going to pave it. Hey, well, Calabasas is very oddly progressive because it was the first city that outlawed smoking in public places, right? Yes. Which is like a weird thing, right? And are we one of the first cities to have, you have to bring your own bags or you have to pay? Are we a city? Yeah, we're a city.

It's so weird to think that we're a city because there is no like town really. It's just like the mall. Yeah, the mall. Commons. Yeah. I know, it's just like the mall yeah the commons yeah i know it's nice but no we yeah you have to bring your own bags into the market or you have to pay 10 cents a bag i think that's one of the first cities for that too it's pretty good yeah no smoking anywhere i love that maybe we could get a plant-based thing going yeah the city of plant-based

we have enough ambassadors here we do we do. We need a better restaurant. Oh, yes. We should start with a restaurant. I know. How about that? We need a juice bar or something. I know. Well, there's Juicy Ladies down the street.

Yes. Yes. That's Woodland Hills, I think. That's Woodland Hills. That's not Calabasas. But they're great. I love that place, too. Anyway.

All right. Cool. So where else can we find you? On Twitter, you are Plant Dietitianian and i'm sure you're on facebook and oh yeah plant-based dietitian on facebook yep i post like a crazy person i love posting yeah and anything else you want to let people know about how to connect with you no i mean those are the best places my website you know you could subscribe to my blog and yeah youtube instagram i just joined instagram so I'm getting in on that.

That's fun. I love that. Yeah. I'm getting into that too. I see why people love it. People love, it's like, it's funny.

I'll take these, you know, what I think are like really cool pictures. Um, uh, but then I'll put, I'll, I'll post a picture of like what I ate for dinner and it'll get twice as many

likes, like to some stupid picture of like, you know, my lunch or whatever. People love that. They love that. Yeah. I know people dig it it so food always does the best yeah well it's a pleasure meeting you in person likewise getting to share this moment so thank you so much thank you for taking the time thanks for having me on the show again of course i look forward to see you many

more shows. Nice to see you in this format. Julie and I are so busy that the only way that we can have a long conversation is to do a podcast. That's right. That's awesome. It's a little dysfunctional, but we go deep. That's romantic. You know, I like that.

Hey, maybe I got to do a podcast with my husband, too. You should. It's brilliant, actually. You should. And get him more plant-based. All right. The lovely Juliana. Yeah. You should. It's brilliant, actually. You should. And get him more plant-based. All right. The lovely Juliana. Yeah.

You say it, Hever, right? Yeah. Hever. Juliana Hever. Thank you for coming. Thanks for all the work you're doing, and we'll look forward to seeing what's next. Definitely. All right.

Thank you. And if you want to figure out more about what Julie and I are up to, you can go to JaiLifestyle.com. J-A-I Lifestyle.com. We have some cool nutrition products there. You can find me at RichRoll.com or at RichRoll on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram, all that stuff. Julie, you have different usernames for Instagram and Twitter. I guess I do, don't I? That's a branding problem.

It's just an aspect of my multidimensional nature. I guess. Julie likes to change her name a lot. I have a lot of names, actually, but it's okay. Everyone close to me is comfortable with that. I was originally Julie, by the way. You were. I was Julie Anna.

Julie Anna, and then you did Juliana. Well, see, I was named after my grandmother, Julia, and I would have preferred, my mom's from Chile, but I would have preferred Julia, but I wasn't. I was named Julie. Well, you can, you know, you're so free to change your name. There you go. There's nothing stopping you from. I've changed my name so many times.

No. So I'm on Instagram under Srimati, S-R-I-M-A-T-I. And my Twitter handle is at Jai Seed. J-A-I-S-E-E-D. That's the name of our cookbook and also my homeschool. And then. Your music website. and also my homeschool. And then you can find my music, which is extremely dear to me,

at srimatimusic.com, S-R-I-M-A-T-I.com. And also on iTunes, my debut album, Mother of Mine, is there for download. And we highly anticipate your next album, Be Loved, which will be coming out soon. Very soon. I'm just mastering that and looking forward to a performance at Agape in March.

Cool. So if you're in LA, we'll let you know about dates. You can touch. All right, everybody. Thanks, as always, for the support. We took a little break there because we were kind of reintegrating back into living in LA after our Hawaii sojourn. But we're glad to be back and have some great guests lined up over the next week. So really happy to be connecting with you.

We appreciate all the support and all the great comments and feedback that you've been sending. Thanks for the comments on iTunes. Fantastic. We love it. And, we're having a lot of fun doing this. So look forward to more. Uh,

and that's it for now. Thanks so much. Thank you. All right. Peace. See you next time. Plants. Thank you. you you you you you you