The Rich Roll Podcast - Kerri Walsh Jennings: Lessons on Mindset From One of the Most Dominant Olympic Athletes Of All Time

Episode Date: December 12, 2016

The most decorated beach volleyball player in history and one of the most consistently dominant Olympic athletes of all time, Kerri Walsh Jennings (@kerrileewalsh) needs no introduction. But for those few off-grid souls who somehow avoided the last five Olympiads, here's but a taste of what this week's guest has accomplished: * she has competed in the last five consecutive Olympiads; * she is a 3-time Olympic Gold Medalist & 1-time Olympic Bronze medalist in beach volleyball (2016); * along with teammate Misty May-Treanor, she has been named the greatest beach volleyball team of all time; * during their 11-year run together, Walsh Jennings & May-Treanor won 21 consecutive Olympic matches and only lost one set This is a unique and extraordinary exploration of the habits, practices and mindset behind one of the greatest athletes on the planet. It’s a conversation about the mentality required to be the world's best. It's an exchange about the crucial role effective communication plays in both sport and relationships. And it's about the power and responsibility of being a positive role model. But ultimately, this is a conversation about pursuing what you love, loving what you pursue, and taking a stand for what you believe in. I cannot overstate my respect for Kerri, her athletic achievements, and how this delightful, spirited, beautiful and tenacious human lives her life on a daily basis. I adore this conversation and am thrilled to share it with you today. I sincerely hope you enjoy the exchange! Peace + Plants, Rich

This has been my vehicle for personal growth. I mean, sports has been my whole life. I was basically a mute until I found volleyball. And then I found my voice and I found some confidence. But you found volleyball very young. I was 10, yeah, and I was pretty shy, you know, for a while after that. But it just gave me a sense of self, you know, and I really love the team atmosphere. And I just, I've learned from all these people I've been around, from all these situations I've been through,

traveling the world. I mean, I have some pretty good perspective and it's come at the hands of this sport. That is the great Kerry Walsh Jennings. And this is the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. What's up, everybody? How you guys doing? Welcome or welcome back to the show, the show where I get intimate and go long form with some of the most intriguing thought leaders, high performers, and positive change makers all across the globe. Conversations designed to help all of us unlock and unleash our

best, most authentic selves. I appreciate you guys tuning in today for sharing the show with your friends and on social media. And of course, for always using the Amazon banner ad at richworld.com because like it or not, the holidays are upon us. And I imagine many of you out there are using Amazon to buy gifts. If this is the case, it would mean a ton to me, to us, to our team. If you first click through the Amazon banner ad on any episode page on my website, richroll.com, it'll take you to Amazon, buy whatever you're going to buy, and it will not cost you anything extra. Amazon does kick us some loose commission change, and that really helps support our mission

here. It's a win-win, so I appreciate everybody who has made a habit of doing that. Thank you very much. Okay, incredibly excited to have Kerry Walsh Jennings on the show today. Beyond being the most dominant and most decorated athlete I have ever had on the show. She's just delightful. She's totally engaging, super fun to talk to, and bursting with inspiration and just great practical advice. By far the most successful beach volleyball player in the sports history, Carrie really doesn't need much of an introduction. If you watched the Rio Olympics last summer, it was impossible to not see her everywhere. But for the few out there who maybe you've been living off the grid, I don't know, maybe you're not familiar with Carrie. There's got to be a couple of you out there. Here is just a

taste of who she is and what she has accomplished. Carrie is a five-time Olympian. She's been an Olympian for 20 years. So I'm not sure who else has been to five Olympics other than Michael Phelps. There's probably some people out there, but there are not many. She's also a three-time Olympic gold medalist and one-time Olympic bronze medalist. She got the bronze in 2016. She is the most decorated beach volleyball Olympian of all time. She is the most decorated beach volleyball Olympian of all time.

Carrie and her longtime teammate, Misty May Trainer, have been dubbed the greatest beach volleyball team of all time. Together, they won 21 consecutive Olympic matches and only lost one set during their 11-year run together. Insane, right? And to top it off, she's also married with three kids. And it's all coming up quick, but first. Okay. Like I said, Carrie was just, she was fantastic. What can I say? This is just an amazing conversation with one of the greatest athletes on planet Earth, period. It's a conversation about how to think about winning and losing. It's about the crucial role of effective communication in both sport and relationships.

We talk about avoiding burnout and the importance of loving what you do and striking the right work-life balance as the ultimate strategy for career longevity and success. We talk about teamwork, mindset, flow. We talk about what it means to her to be a multiple Olympic gold medalist and the power and responsibility of being a positive role model. And also we talk about the importance of taking a stand for what you believe in. So I just have so much respect and admiration for Carrie, not just for her athletic achievements, but for her positive attitude and mindset,

for how she lives her life on a daily basis. And I just adore this conversation. So without further ado, please enjoy this exchange with the great Carrie Walsh Jennings. Just roll right into it. Are you good to go? I'm good to go. I'm so happy to talk to you. Thank you. It's been a long time coming. I appreciate you opening up your beautiful home. You just built it. We did. Yes. We've been here for about two months and a bit. So we're still waiting on certain pieces of furniture and art and stuff. But yeah, this is our home. It's so nice.

Thank you. We have a yard for the first time ever. I know. I like the little kids volleyball court right there. Kate, my husband, did that. I know. We're trying to have like a... We don't want to leave this house, basically.

So we just put a gym in the garage. And we got the volleyball court in the back of mini one. Because this is like heaven. We don't want to to leave and you're like just a little over a mile from the beach right yeah yeah it's so close we have a golf cart that we take down once in a while really yeah well i had a bike but i'm just a liability on a bike so so yeah but we we drive most places but yeah we're in a perfect spot manhattan beach is a pretty special place yeah it's cool it's weird how you can live in Los Angeles and have a completely different lifestyle depending upon what area of LA you live in. Because I live on the other side of town. It's, you know, unique

and beautiful for different reasons, but it's different from living here, you know? Oh, totally. And I think the South day is its own universe. It is. It's its own little cloistered world. Sure. Well, same as Malibu. Yeah, that's true. Malibu to me is heaven. I mean, I grew up in the Bay Area. And so like redwoods and trees and space.

And so when I go to Malibu, I'm like, I can breathe a little bit more. But I do love Manhattan Beach. This community specifically is really, really special. And the beach cities in general, there's always something to do. But I do really appreciate the peace and the quiet. We're a little bit more East. So we're a mile from the beach, but you get a little more space over here, a little more quiet, less like hustle and bustle. Right. But you've, you've been living in this area for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, when I graduated Stanford, I drove down and I lived in Huntington beach for my first kind of six months to a year. And then Casey and

I moved up here together, Manhattan Beach and then Hermosa Redondo, now Manhattan again. So I was telling you before the podcast that I drove down here, I woke up really early. So I just thought, I'll just beat the traffic and come down here and I can get my workout in and kind of wrap my head around what I want to talk to you about. And I was running along the strand. And I know that for people that don't know, there's sand volleyball courts like all over the beach around here. But it's pretty intense. Like this is not like it's not your normal like sort of beach volleyball crowd. Like it's serious business. Oh, totally. And specifically, the nets that are set up kind of right at the border

between Hermosa and Manhattan, right? Like that's the sweet spot where all the pros go. And I was running by there and I was thinking, oh, I was actually looking to see if maybe you were out there playing. There were already some people out there early this morning, but that's like your- Oh, there's turf wars out there. Yeah. It's kind of like, you know, with surfing with the waves, right? Like, is it like a locals only scene? Like how does, what's the pecking order when you go down to the beach and, or, I mean, you're the queen, the queen right but like like i couldn't just walk down there and say

hey you want to play right well ideally you'd be able to do that but if you go to certain spots like the spot you mentioned 24th 28th and hermosa um i train around 15th street in manhattan beach and the pure hermosa like that's like the real deal, serious. If you see people with their game faces on, just let them be. Don't call next. Try to like butt in on the game or anything like that. That's not gonna work. But we get challenged, you know,

here and there like a couple of times a year and it's so fun. But I really love that there's nets as far as I can see, you know? And it's just, to me, it's so silly when people get frustrated about their court, but I get it. You know, people don't really mess with our court. We've been on a court for so long now. Um, whenever we have a random practice on a Saturday, usually we practice Monday through Friday. Once in a while, we'll go on a Saturday

and the crew that's been there for 30 years, like we get evil eye, we get like dagger shot at us. Like if looks could kill, we would be dead because we're on their court. They've been, you know, owned it for 20 years. So I respect it very much. It's funny. I also went to Stanford. I'm quite a bit older than you, but I was friends with some of the women on the, on the volleyball team there. And, and I can remember one, one like spring break, like a whole bunch of us came down to this area. And the, some of the most fun that I would have is watching these women kind of like walk up and sheepishly ask if they could play volleyball with some guys and like try to play it like, you know, low key, like they don't know what they're doing. And then just get

out there and just dominate. That's so rad. Total sharks. I was like, we should be betting on this. Totally make some money. Yeah. You know, Stanford's a very, very special place. Yeah. I really love it. And yeah, I love that you went there. I just feel like we have a connection right off. Yeah. It's a good thing.

Well, not only that, we were both American studies majors. Yeah. There you go. American history was my, we totally are. God, we're both tall and lean and we got kids. I wish I was tall as you. Six feet of sunshine. I know. Six, two and a bit. Yeah. So your I was tall as you. Six feet of sunshine. I know, 6'2 and a bit.

Yeah, so your husband gave you that nickname. He did, yes. And it was cute coming out of his mouth. And then, you know, when you read it, you're like, ah, I think I'd rather be known as something more of a killer. Oh, yeah. But no, hopefully it still suits me. You know, I got my cloudy days too.

Yeah. So how are you doing in the wake of the Olympics? Did you enjoy some time off? Yeah. You know, after Rio, Rio was amazing in so many ways. And the four years, the three and a half year lead up was really, really special. And it's crazy to me that it's come and gone. And I feel like I'm still hung over from Rio. I'm just exhausted constantly. And I can't, I haven't turned that corner yet. I'm like, am I depressed? No, I'm okay. I'm just tired. So I'm just trying, I'm starting a cleanse today. Like, so I have no coffee today. So I'm sorry, Rich. You have to deal with all these

things. Right in front of you, you have three different containers of liquids. I see a smoothie, then there's something that looks hot. Yes. I got two hots and one cold. So what is the cleanse? So standard process cleanse, I've been doing this for 10 years. It's 21 days. And the hardest part about it is no caffeine. Because I got to, you know, clean my liver, my kidneys and all these things. So that's my Achilles heel. But, you know, these are caffeine free teas and my chaga mushroom mix.

So I'm just, you know, comfort food. Did you get, is that the four sigmatic chaga yeah yeah i'm addicted yes a little cacao powder oh my gosh um do you know taro from that company no i should introduce you yeah they're super cool guys yeah they seem like you like tons of stuff oh well i don't i don't mind supporting the cause we just got it is it sun life there's one in malibu we just got one in manhattan khalil just opened some life i'm so pumped like they are making a living off of us yeah he's a he's a good friend of mine he's been on the podcast twice oh good it's so rad like there's so much good stuff going on in the world right now and there's so much inspiration i mean there's obviously so much noise about you know the tough stuff going on but i see so much light

and so much you know just i'm getting you know, from Sun Life and from listening to podcasts. And I'm just, I'm so inspired. And yeah, so this cleanse is part of being inspired and trying to round that corner of tiredness and feeling exhausted. But yeah, and you've been part of my process to listening to your podcast and everything. So I appreciate that. I appreciate you. Yeah. So, so speaking of podcasts, of course, as I'm wrapping my head around how to approach talking to you, who's the person that I call? I call our mutual friend, Gervais Michael. Oh, no. And I'm like, Michael. I sent him an email.

I'm like, Michael, he knew that we were going to talk. And I was like, I'm meeting with Carrie tomorrow. I don't want you to, you know, transgress. You know, don't, I'm not asking you to divulge. Oh, do you ask for deep start secrets? No, I'm just like, like, if you're comfortable, you know, giving me some tips on what I should talk to her about beyond the obvious, you know, what would you say? Oh, that's nice.

And he said, ask her about winning and losing. Oh, doc. So that's a pretty broad subject matter to launch into, right? So maybe in order to frame it, winning and losing, your perspective on winning and losing, and maybe how that's evolved or changed over the years. Yeah, certainly. I mean, I can take this down to a pinpoint. It doesn't seem that broad to me. It's either you do or you don't. But recently, it's become winning has taken on different meanings to me. You know, you can still lose and you can still win and be gold and all these things.

And not just because I just won a bronze medal in Rio, but because life is so much more than about winning, you know, or losing. I just got asked the other day, do you like winning more or do you hate losing more? And I said, of course, I love winning more. Like I would have retired 15 years ago or I wouldn't even have started playing sports if I hated losing the way I love winning because I love winning so much. And that's just a positive driving force for me.

So, you know, I think it's so funny that Doc told you to talk about this because with him, like we're in this room together and we've done a lot of work, um, a ton of work and most of it on the personal side of life, not the career side of life. Um, but he, he always wants me to talk about losing. I'm just like, I don't know. I'm like, it's there. Like I get it. I don't need to talk about it. I don't want to put any thought, any power, any energy toward that. You know, I just, I want to go win a gold medal, period.

And I think for him, he doesn't want me to make a, you know, it's A, it's not about the end result. Like he wants me to live every day and enjoy the process, all these things. But I think the fear, and he doesn't want me to trap myself into being, it's all about this thing. And it's, I don't want to create a, you know, a monster. If I don't win my life is over that's my identity or when i you know when it comes time to go and compete i have this

monkey on my back that i've created so um i appreciate that part of it but at the same time i'm like i you know i'm an athlete of course it's there right um i acknowledge it i respect it and that's why i work my ass off to not you to talk about losing. Well, you're like this unique unicorn in the sense that beyond being a five-time Olympian, how many people are five-time Olympians? But besides Michael Phelps, I mean, there can't be more than a handful of people. I have no idea. Is anybody else 10 to five?

Yeah, of course. I mean, of course. I met this, a Paralympian this summer who literally, I think he's been to nine summer and nine winter. Gnarly. Well, I guess if you're from like an obscure country. Yeah, he was from Switzerland. Yeah.

Not obscure, but he has more options. Yeah. In terms of American athletes, I don't know how many others. Yeah, I don't know. I'll look that up. Yeah, I'm in proud company for sure. Like I love being where I'm in proud company for sure. Like I, I love being where I'm at. But, but the point I'm kind of driving at is that, you know, for somebody who's been in sport at the highest level for such an extended

period of time, there's naturally going to be ups and downs and seasons where you're losing and not performing at your peak, peak, et cetera. But, but you've maintained this winning streak for such an extraordinarily long period of time that, that, you know, time that, you know, it's different. Like, I don't know who else, you know, other than Michael Phelps, there is to – I mean, he's had his ebbs and flows much more than you have. Like, you've sort of maintained this crazy winning streak, right? So, going into Rio, like, does the pressure escalate?

Does it get easier or does it get harder? Yeah, well, I just – I mean, that's why, why I play is I don't, I love that pressure and I love, I love training every day so hard with my crew so that when I get to the game time, you just press play. Like that's the ideal, um, that I've, you know, I've addressed every situation that come at me in practice so that I'm prepared to play. Um, but I just, I adore it. It's like halfway, you know, last year with April, um, just on a side note, I was like starting to get really stressed out and I'd be a little bit aggressive and I'd kind of bark. And, um, it was more like a fear of, of losing. And I was

talking to Mike about it, to Doc about it. And I'm just like, you know, he's, I was like, you know, we're in these tight moments. I feel this. And when it's tight, I feel this. He's like, hold up. He's like, just take a moment. He's like, we need to reframe this because you're making this a tight moment. He's like, look at it as a competitive moment. I swear to God, right when he said that, I was like, ah, like there was so much load unburdened. So I feel like just your mindset in certain situations is, is everything really, you know, especially at the highest level, everyone's physical, everyone can jump and hit and have, it has a skillset. But if you have this mental framework where you can be, you know, have these tools to kind of chill out a little bit, that's ideal. But for me leading up to Rio, I felt so good, you know, in Rio, I felt so good,

obviously the intensity and there's nothing like it that I've ever experienced. It's just a constant, it's kind of like parenting. It's just constant. The energy is constant, you know, there's no break. It's not like old hat, like, oh, here we go again. I'm used to this. No. Oh my gosh. Right. No. I mean, do you feel like that with all the races you've run? No. I mean, I'm not even going to like go there in terms of comparing my experience to what you've experienced, but, but I can, you know, you go in with so much more, so much more, like you're going into your fifth Olympics, like, you know, the drill, right? So like, opening ceremonies, things like that might not be as heightened an experience as it would be for a 19 unique flavor. And Brazil was a different beast all on its own. And they did a really, really great job. For the first time, I didn't walk in opening ceremonies, mostly because of logistics. Like it was going to be hours and hours away driving

and then standing on my feet. And we played the next day at midnight. So plenty of time to rest and recover. But I've been there, like you said. I kind of took the pressure off myself. I watched it on TV. But no, I love it. Like the Olympic spirit to me is one of the most beautiful things ever.

It's so amazing. Oh my God. It's everything. It's so unifying and inspiring. And you know, when you have a down moment, you look up and then you're inspired again. And it's really, really special. And this pressure that you enjoy shouldering so much. Do you feel like, and this is another

Gervais type question, but does that come, like, does the drive and the motivation or the sense of purpose come from an internal pressure or is that more of an external? 100% internal. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, as I've kind of gone through the ranks, it's changed because it used to be I used to let the noise get to me and, you know, newspaper article get to me or other athletes, you know, and I would compare myself a lot to other people being like, I want

to do what she does. And I want to jump that high. And at some point, I just dropped all that because that's just a limiting. And B, it's, you know, you're defeated right away, because I'm not that person. And so that was a great lesson for me. It also seems like it would be unsustainable over the long run because you're subject to the whims of other people, right? Like if you're driven internally, like you can keep out a constant flame. Yeah. And you have a little bit more control over it.

I love being accountable to myself. I love being, you know, self-sustained. Like I don't, I don't want to have to rely on everybody. I have a rad, rad team around me that I do lean on, but like I pride myself on being, being able to take care of my SHIT. You know, I really, I really want to do that. And I want to do it at a very, very high level. Um, and so the internal drive is, is important to me. I mean, sometimes I'm having a tough day. I don't want to get out of bed early and it's like okay who am i doing like who am i doing this alongside and you know my team is so rad i can't let them down that stuff comes in once in a while but 99.9% of the time it's like i i'm doing this because i i absolutely love it and i want to be the best that

i can be um and if i do that and work my ass off in all these different areas then i like our chances my ass off in all these different areas, then I like our chances. I'm interested in the dance and the flow that takes place with the partnership aspect of what you do, which distinguishes your sport from essentially every other sport, right? You have to have a rhythm and a language and an intuitive communication with your partner that, you know, exceeds anything in order for you guys to, you know, accomplish what you seek out to accomplish. It's so special, you know, kind of growing up in the team sports world for my whole life, um, and getting to beach volleyball when I was 22, a little bit later, um, I was, I was so ready for that change and I beach volleyball is so special because it's just you, yeah, you and your partner, like you said, against the world.

volleyball is so special because it's just you, yeah, you and your partner, like you said, against the world. And so it's like, I am, I need to be so legit and so on point for myself. But I also have to rely on my partner. And so that level of intimacy and communication and willingness to be vulnerable with this person and to, you know, bust through walls with this person, that's like the, my most favorite part about it. It's pretty empowering and it's rad. And I've been so blessed in my career to play alongside just the best. And so how did you manage the transition away from Misty over to April? From Mystical?

You know, Misty and I had 12 years together, 12 seasons together or more. I haven't even done that math. And that's got, you know, has to be almost like a marriage. It was. How does that work? And I miss her so much.

It's just, you just do it. Oh, she was ready. I know she was so ready. I get that quite every, I get, I get that question quite often. Um, but she was ready. She grew up on the beach literally. So from the time she was born until she retired at, you know, 36 or whatever it was, um, she just gave her heart and she was ready and she had a beautiful baby and, you know, wonderful husband. And she's doing what she's doing now. And she's so happy. So, but the transition was so easy.

It was like, because April and I, I feel like when you have a love of respect, you know, you have a common vision. That's what a great place to start. And then April and I, obviously as athletes, you know, we're pretty decent and we're always striving to get better, which is great. So we hit the ground running when April and I made the transition and it was after a year where the wheels fell off to a certain extent. Um, just like we weren't winning as much as I thought we could be. We, we both knew we could dominate apps cause we have all the skills that were both physical. We have the drive, you know, we're a unit. Um, but there's a

level of intimacy and trust, um, especially in those competitive moments that you have to develop. And what I found for the first like year and a half or after the first year, the next year together, we in crunch time and competitive moments, we would go back. We would revert to what we used to do with our old partners, which was total opposite of what I would do with Misty and she would do with Jen Kessie. And so we had to work our way through that. And there's only a way to work through that. And that's through competition. You can't, you know, practice your, your, you know, there's nothing on the line, you know, work hard play until you found it. Right. You just had

in those moments, you know, against the best in the world. So we took these losses thing. Um, mostly I think we were just both trying to please each other. You know, so I would, neither of us would really speak up and we would just kind of do. And April would go and be super physical on her serve. And if that worked out, great. But if it didn't, then I'm like, well, I'm here too. Like, we got to figure this out. And I would go revert to the standard defense that I like to do.

And she just came from a different world. And so, yeah, we just, it was just, it was like this much, we were like an inch apart, you know, but that made all the difference against the best teams in the world. So, but it was so frustrating because it's like, why, why is this happening? We have everything. Like it makes no sense. You know, we're mentally strong. We're physically amazing, not amazing, but you know, pretty good. And, um, but we just, we're losing a little bit too much for my taste and for her taste. Yeah. So you have to find that special mystical alchemy. Totally. Oh, it's so fun. It totally. And it's so unique to everybody. Like you can have the

two best athletes in the world and it's going to take time to develop, you know? And, and that's the beautiful thing about our sport. Like like I April and I finished our season this year and it was our third season together and I'm like Abe I feel like we're just getting started and not physically speaking but it's just that alchemy like you're talking about like we're finally finally like coming together and the golden hue is coming out um and so that's that's my favorite part of all of this the the relationships and then building that, you know, greatness together. So the, the relationship with Misty was kind of defined as this perfect yin yang, right? Like you complimented each other perfectly and you had different strengths and, you know, et cetera, that made it all work. But if you had to describe how that alchemy works with April,

like what does that look like? Um, you know, personality wise, April and Misty are pretty similar and that's where Misty and I were more opposite for sure. Um, playing styles, you know, Misty was more finesse. I was more physical. Misty's just a master, like grandmaster at beach volleyball. I learned from her every day, April and I, um, we're both physical. We both kind of play a very similar game. Um, she, I'm pretty fundamental when I play, like, I just like ABCs, um, and she likes the XYZs. And so we kind of had to kind of figure things out there. And she inspired me to be a little bit more creative, um, and to go for that more. I always just thought like, if you had to go for all these crazy plays, that means you're scared and you're trying to hopefully get lucky by creating an opening here. But now I see

it as definitely a part of the skillset that's underused in my career. So, um, you know, but, and then I'm certainly a big, loud cheerleader. I, I think out loud, I talk a lot. April is very internal. Um, she's super thoughtful. Is it? I like go and attack my partner after every play. It's great. I mean, there's so much energy, you know, I think that's why it's such a fantastic spectator sport because it's like, you can feel it and you're bringing everybody into it. Yeah. It's, it's pretty, it's really, really special. And you know, when, when I get a high five from Misty, it was like the sun like shining down on me, you know, God just gave me a high five. And April's kind of the same, you know, when she's like, when we're interacting and talking and

it's just, it's amazing, you know, but that Misty had an internal fire and April has an internal fire that is so legit and so powerful. And I would never, ever want to get in the way. So I, yeah, those two girls are warriors, you know, and they have different faces and it comes out in different ways, but it's been, it's been awesome to learn from them. Well, to kind of like walk a mile in, in April's shoes, I would imagine, you know, she walking into this relationship, you know, sort of in the, in the wake of you being so dominant and successful had to be, I mean, was she, I mean, she's an amazing player, so it's not, I don't want to say intimidated or anything like that, but like the expectations on her must've been very high.

Yeah. Well, I think she's definitely internally driven and her expectations of herself are all that matters for her. And so she's very confident with where she's at. Um, I think she got sick of hearing that question, you know, how do you feel and what must it be you're feeling in these shoes? And she's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not feeling in these shoes, you know, and she has so much respect for Misty. Um, that goes without saying, but she, April is very much her own person. And, you know, I'm not saying that there wasn't any added pressure or anything like that, but I certainly never looked at her that she was filling a role, um, that was just vacated. And I don't think she did that much either.

Right. So I want to kind of unpack Rio a little bit more in depth. I'm interested in, in kind of the, the mindset approach to dealing with, you know, losing a few games all of a sudden and dropping some sets for that. I mean, you went into this, you hadn't lost a set in the Olympics, right? We had lost one. Oh, you lost one. Okay. So over the previous three Olympiads, like you hadn't lost a single set, right? So then you go in, you know, it's not going perfectly well. And I think a lesser athlete could have folded under that, like, oh my God, it's going left and and that house of cards starts to collapse on top of you so how did you you know keep it together maintain focus oh man you know ultimately prevail to bronze i know we triumphed that was a gnarly situation um you know i think i know my foundation is solid um for myself for our team we were solid and so and the world is

so very good at beach volleyball and they have been for so long, but the past four years, the growth and the depth of the tour, we lost plenty. I mean, too much. So losing doesn't, I mean, it hurts your heart. You're like, ah, damn it. And it kind of makes you a little bit headsy, but just for a moment, and then you go back to work. And so, um, we've been there before is my kind of my answer you know i know the world most of america hadn't seen us lose or me lose in the olympics um but i'm an athlete and it's just part of the job you know and it kind of just pisses you off more and you're like i'm doing this even more um to lose the and and before we lost the match to brazil in the semis the tournament was magical

we lost one set against Switzerland. And, you know, coulda, shoulda, woulda. We could have beat them in two. Coulda done that. But we were dominating against amazing, amazing teams, like crushing teams. And we were doing it all with defense and this fire. And we were so in sync. And then against Switzerland, we got pushed, made a couple too many

errors and, you know, they've made some great plays and all of a sudden we're in game three and we win 15-12. And then we have another match or two and then we play these Brasies who we've played so many times before. And, you know, they just came out like gangbusters. Right. Well, you handled the whole thing with a tremendous amount of grace and poise. Oh, good. And I'm sure you had to- Oh with a tremendous amount of grace and poise. Oh, good. And I'm sure you had to weather- Oh, Rich, it was so hard, man. I'm sure you had to weather a fair number of journalists saying,

what does it feel like to not win the gold? You know, no, I know. But you know, it's just like, I still haven't really wrapped, I don't have my verbiage around how it truly felt to lose and to have to come back to play. Um, because the only thing I can relate it to is when we lost the semifinal match, we were up 1916, first of all, in game one, I mean, two points to win game one. That to me is match over, you know, like we just, that's a game changer and we lost. And I had a really, really bad match, you know, the most fundamental part of my game of the game of beach volleyball, which is passing. And I just, I just was having a really tough time. That being said, we fought and we scrapped and,

you know, we just came up short and it was a nightmare, literally a nightmare. In my head when I was out there, I was just like, we got it. It's coming. We got it. Stay, stay calm. Shanked a ball. Damn it. It's okay. We got it. You know, and that's kind of my set of self-talk. Um, but once it was over, it was like, holy shit, that went so fast. Um, what just happened? And now what do I do? You know, and I can only relate it to, cause my heart was so broken after that loss to when my husband and I were going through problems and I thought we're getting divorced. Like I was devastated. Um, and it's obviously not that cataclysmic, like divorce, come on, that's times a billion. But, um, I just, you know, I wanted that much. We worked that much and put so much into it that much. So it hurt that bad.

so where do you go from here i know that you said like everyone's like are you going for 2020 you're like i can i don't know if i will yeah well is that still where your head's at i mean if i were to have to make a decision right this second i'm all in and i'm all in to go wingold that's kind of where I'm at right now. At like two weeks after I got back from Rio, I said that to my husband. He's like, stop, I can't hear that. It's been so hard. And so that kind of took me back. I was like, oh God, it's not just me. And so if I, I'm pretty, I want to go. I mean, I really do want to go, but meet them family and husband come first for sure. And if Casey's like, babe, it was too hard and we missed you too much. And we,

we lost connection too deeply. Like it's not worth it. Um, but moving forward, if I do go for the next four years, I want to do it. Like I've never done it before, you know, which means I want to, I want to really work to take advantage of this lifestyle that we have. Cause it's an amazing lifestyle. We travel the country. We travel the world playing beach volleyball. We have the opportunity to do it together, my husband and I and the kids. And we just have never taken advantage of that.

And I want to pick and choose my battles a little bit more. I got hurt in 2015. And so 2016, I was gone. I had to play in every single tournament. We had to qualify. And ideally ideally that situation won't happen again. But no, I just, you know, I just,

it's really important to stay connected with, you know, those who matter most. And that's my husband and my kids. And I just know we can do both. But I have to, you know, I have to get my husband on board. Time will tell. Time will tell.

Yeah. You know what? I love it. I like, this has been my vehicle for personal growth. I mean, sports has been my whole life. I was basically a mute until I found volleyball and then I found my voice and I found some confidence. But you found volleyball very young. I was 10. Yeah. But I mean, I will literally, yeah. And I was pretty shy, you know, for a while after that, but it just gave me a sense of self, you know, and I really love the team atmosphere. And I just, I've learned from all these people I've been around, from all these situations I've

been through traveling the world. I mean, I have some pretty good perspective and it's come at the hands of this sport. Yeah. I mean, that's beautiful to hear. And, you know, as somebody who has been playing at your level for so long, I mean, the longevity of your career is remarkable in and of itself. I can't believe I'm so old. It's the craziest thing. Listen, I'm old. You're not old. No, no.

Well, first of all, let's take that back because we're both not old. But I think old is, you know, when you're 105. Yeah, everything's, you know, everything's changed. It's weird. You know, when I was in college, like if you were competing after age 23 or 24 like it was like what are you doing but now it's a very different world it's beautiful I know look what you're

doing I mean madness what you do I can't even I can't even comprehend any of the ultras or it's nothing like what you do I don't I don't agree I get so glutton for punishment but no but I want to play and I want to play at the highest level. And if I feel like I'm slipping in that regard, I'll have to think about things. But I feel like I'm not I feel like I still have room for improvement in every area. And yeah, I just not done yet. Well, I think that that opens up the door to talking about work life balance. Yeah, because you're not you're not old, but you're not, you're, you're not old, but you're not 24 and like single and just can just play all day long. So you have three kids, uh, you have a husband, Casey and, um, a life outside of volleyball, right? So,

so maintaining, you know, focus on the kids and the important things of life while also attending to what you need to do to, you know, maintain your career, I'm sure it gets complicated. And I know that, you know, Michael's been involved in that equation with you. Thank goodness. And I watched that video you guys made when you kind of like, you were very candid and open about, you know, the struggles that you've had and how you've kind of, you know, grown together through it to, you know, sort of congeal into this, you know, working unit that allows you to do what you do. But I can't imagine that that's been easy. Well, it's been a beautiful

labor of love for sure. I mean, my whole life since, you know, I was born into an amazing family and we did everything as a family unit. Everyone within that unit chased their own dreams. Do you have brothers and sisters? I have an older brother, and I have two little sisters, and a baby brother up in heaven. Passed away when I was seven. But yeah, so I grew up in this family unit. My mother was one of eight. All her siblings had lots of kids.

My dad was one of four, and we all grew up in the Bay Area. Literally within like three miles of each other, I had a million cousins and uncles. So that was my life. Like Irish Catholic? Yes, exactly. And some Italian in there. And so that was my life. And so that's just how I envisioned my life with Casey.

And, you know, like we're each like having these dreams, dreams we're chasing, but we know we love each other so much and we're so connected through it all. And we live that way a good deal of the time. But when things are hard, things are hard, you know? And it's just so crazy to me. I was sometimes you have like a bad day or a bad week and it feels like it's

been a bad year, you know? And I feel like that just comes with passionate people and people who want the best out of life. Um, but Casey's amazing. We've been to hell together for sure. And we fought our way back. And, um, and, and how did you, like, how did you fight your way back? Like how did you claw back from the brink to you know sort of be able to you know you know have this intimate life where you guys can be mutually supportive of each other yeah well you know it's a very common thing

irrespective of olympics and whatever right no we're all doing the same damn thing. My gosh. No, it just, everyone's plates are just fully loaded, you know? And I, I love that about us. And, um, for Casey and I, you know, the lead up to Beijing is when we started faltering and I didn't see it, totally didn't see it. And, you know, I was just on the road a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Just thinking I'm doing what I I'm doing this, know i i and beijing was a different beast because my head was down completely i didn't enjoy one minute of it i just labored and to me that was joyful to a certain extent because i love getting better and improving and winning but for the life balance of it i didn't have any but i thought you know i expressed to

casey and i was close enough to casey that he always felt my love for him and you know, I expressed to Casey and I was close enough to Casey that he always felt my love for him and, you know, like we're in this together, but he felt super isolated. And so that was a huge lesson to find out, you know, right before we gave, I gave birth to my son, Joey, you know, my husband's like, I don't think I can do this anymore. We're not, we're not doing this together anymore. And it was gnarly. It was gnarly for him. It was gnarly for me. And, um, I totally didn't get it. I was like, what the hell are you talking about? Um, this baby's coming in, you know, like we did this, you know, let's, this is just a rough patch, but he had been living, you know, alone for a long time. And, you know, you just get disconnected if you're not working on it. And I never thought I took him for granted by any means, but I did, you know, I just didn't, I just thought he knew always where I was at.

but I did, you know, I just didn't, I just thought he knew always where I was at. And so for me, you know, the hard work, I knew that I just, I wanted my husband back and I wanted him to see me for who I was and not for this, you know, image that he had construed in his head because I wasn't around. And, and so, um, we just went to work and doc was a huge part of that Gervais. And my very first day with Gervais, I am overdue with Joey. I'm literally having contractions in the chair. And he looks at me, he goes, what took you so long? And I just started crying. I'm like, I don't know.

It's like the question of my life. What took you so long? But for me, it's just Casey and I, we're just magic. And I knew that. And I never lost track of that. And he had Gervais, which is one of my favorite things to tell people when you're going through hard times. He's like, if just one of you

has the tip of your pinky toe still on the door, you still have hope. And I was all in and my husband still had that tip of his pinky toe in. And so, um, we just fought, you know, I worked on myself. We stopped pointing fingers, started looking in the mirror. I worked my butt off with Gervais and let go of a lot of baggage, you know, still working on that. But we just, we went to work. He's like, most people just don't do the work. And, you know, it's easier to walk away. And we really went to work.

And I'm really proud of it. What does the work look like? Were there specific things that you did? You know, a lot of one-on-one with Gervais for sure. Just kind of getting to the heart of the matter for me. And, you know, what are your hangups in life and how can we unburden you and unburden Casey and, um, the mutual work, you know, I, God, I can't even like, it's not like we went home with like homework, but like at some point he would have us like this one time he had us do a vision board. Um, we each did our own vision

board next five years. You guys go and map out what you want to do, what you want to be. And I was so, and then we're going to share it in the next session. I was so afraid to do that and to share it because I'm like, what if my husband and I are in totally different pages? And there's this illustration of us not working. And I was so afraid. Yeah, that's scary. Oh my gosh. But we go and do this and, um, we were so on point. We were so together and I feel like it enlightened Casey and opened his eyes and be like, Oh, I still know that girl. We still want the same things. And I was like, see, you do. So anyway, it's just stuff like that just to kind of just take off the blinders, you know, cause when you're, when you're in a tough spot, you, the,

of just take off the blinders, you know, because when you're in a tough spot, the lens you look through gets really hazy and foggy. And you just got to take those off and kind of be open-minded and open to the good stuff that's coming too. And that was the work. So there's this idea that to be an athlete at the highest level, you kind of have to go into the cave and it's just all about you and your performance. You have to get very selfish and isolate yourself from other people. And that's how you perform at your peak. In contrast to this idea that, you know, there's another sort of theory or way of living, which is that, you know, your, your performance is better when your life is full, right? Yes, yes. And so one might look at your life and say, oh, my God, it's so complicated with kids.

Like, do you think that's undermining your ability to perform? And I know that you've said, like, you think that you're a better athlete and perform better by having this unit and the responsibilities that come with that. For sure. I mean, I've lived in the cave, and I've lived out in the cave, out in the sunshine, and I would, life is too short to be miserable and to be isolated. You know, I, my husband, I wish you were here, he could speak to this. He, when we were separated, he went to rehab and he went to work and, you know, I, I would kept thinking about how we got this way and, you know,

how he got so sad where he was, you know, leaning on drinking so kept thinking about how we got this way and you know, how he got so sad where he was, you know, leaning on drinking so much. And it's just isolation. Isolation is a dangerous place when you're in a dark, deep mindset. That's what I've come to learn. It's hard for me. Um, it was certainly hard for my husband and he, you know, you isolate from the people and the things you love most. And so I don't want to be in that cave ever again. And my life right now, it's gnarly. Like I want to be the best I've ever been. But above that, I want to be connected to my family. And so that juggle is really gnarly, but worth it.

But I have to be at the school at 10 a.m. for the cupcake thing. I know. But Rich, it's so doable. Like I just feel like where there's a will, there's a way. And if you love it, you just do it and you make it work. And that's why the next four years, like I, the past four years, so 2012 to 2016, I sprinted everywhere. Like a damn dead sprint. We drop our kids off at 8.30. From 8.30 to 3, I would be sprinting, getting my three workouts in, my rehab, you know, the life stuff I have to

do, the interviews, whatever it is, I would work so hard to be done by three. And then I would go pick my kids at three so happy, and then I'd be like, damn, I'm done. I have nothing for you and nothing for my husband. And that was miserable. But I love working. And so for me, that's joyful. But then I get home, I'm not doing what I want to do on the other side. And so the next four years, however long I'm going to play, that's done.

I'm done doing that. And I just need to create my best life. It's so possible. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. It's just, you gotta be thoughtful about it and mindful about it and not just kind of be drag around. Yeah. And I think it's, you have to be flexible too, because every day is not going to be perfect. And you wake up with this idealized notion of how the day is going to go. And if you have kids and you're in a relationship, like it never measures up to that idea. And you can get resentful and angry and push against that. Or you can just surrender to it and like try to be in the ebb and flow of the river that you're in,

right? And just accept that, you know, it's not always going to be the way that you want it to be. Yeah. And there's beauty in that too. Yeah, of course. Right. And that's like a journey, I think, to get to that place. Yeah. And also to, because you could be like, I'm not, you know, if I do this and I'm not going to be able to perform, you know what I mean? Right. Yeah, yeah. No, totally.

I'm sure you've been in that mindset, right? Absolutely. And so nobody wants to be around you. What are you talking about? But I would imagine you had, you still have to winnow down your life. Like you have to get really clear on what you're doing and what your priorities are. Like you can't just, you know, sort of go out to lunch with your friends and, you know, go on a Netflix binge, you know, when you have goals that you're trying to achieve and there's kids that are waiting for you. Yeah, no, I mean, the focus

is there, you know, when you have a purpose, you're focused and you're just gonna, and I, for me, I've gotten so much clarity. Like every, like I've lived my life in quadrennials because I've been Olympian for so long, you know, so every quad has been so different and I've just gotten more and more clarity of how I want to do things because I've lived these contrasting situations where I'm like, okay, that's not ideal. I almost lost my marriage. Okay, that's not ideal. I was sprinting every day. No energy at home with the kids. So I'm just learning as I go. And everyone, what I'm, I'm a pretty big pleaser.

And so I don't want to like, I don't want to impose on people. But my crew around me is so willing to work with me and to like move things around for me. I'm like, I'm just going to lean on that. You know, and everyone is so open and generous with me. Like I'm going to lean on that a little bit more instead of threading the needle every day, I'm going to create this life I've been talking about and dreaming about, um, and living in so many ways, but I'm actually going to execute it this time. And that like, what is that? What is that? Like, if you're saying I am living my best life and I'm going to execute on that, what does that look like specifically?

my best life and I'm going to execute on that, what does that look like specifically? It's enough time to breathe and just to be present. You know, if I, like my typical day last year, so if it was my turn to drop off the kids, my husband and I alternate, whatever it is, drop off the kids by 8.30, you know, sprint to practice, have a cup of coffee in me, practice from 9 to 11.30. Not anymore, no more coffee. I know, 21 days, shit. Not anymore. No more coffee. I know 21 days. I'm my energy's picking up though. After day three, I'm okay. Um, what day is this day one? This is day one. I know. And I fought with my husband this morning. You just have me a bad

angle. Um, no. So I just, I sprinted. So I would just, I would literally, there'd be like a half an hour to maybe 45 minutes between things. And so if one thing went over time, my whole day was screwed. You don't push everything back. And so there was just a lot of stress. And then I'd get home from 3 o'clock in the afternoon until 7.30 when my kids go to bed. That would be kid time. Amazing. But I wouldn't be present because I'd be so damn tired.

So I just need to give myself some breathing room. And I can go have lunch with my husband a couple times a week and stay connected. Um, and I can come home with energy enough for my kids. I just, you know, I just need to lean on my people to help me figure out a schedule. Yeah. And you can't, you can't be there for your kids if you're depleted. Like you have to take care of yourself. It's not, yeah. And that's not selfish. You know, I've learned that that's not selfish. And I, you know, I you know i this 2016 start out with a bang like i'm like i'm gonna wake up early i'm gonna meditate i'm gonna have some me time and i killed it i killed it for like a month and a half two months maybe and then my kid like i

would get up at 4 30 like jazz i'm like this is rad i'm like i am present i am capable of you know being nimble with my kids have a bad day or if i have to do something um that wasn't expecting. And then my kids started getting up earlier and earlier and earlier. I'm like, this is nonsense. I'm not doing this. But you know, like, so my perfect day right now would be to, and it all starts with what time I go to bed. If I'm in bed asleep by nine 30, I can do anything in the whole wide world. I will be super woman. I swear to God. Cause then I can wake up early and do a meditation, which I'm just so into right now. And I want to be for my whole life. I'm learning the Wim Hof breathing.

I'm doing all that. Yeah, I want to get into like a day in the life. Maybe we can just get into it now. I mean, what specific type of meditation are you doing? And what does it look like? I'm fumbling through it. But I just, I downloaded the, oh my gosh, the Moses code meditation music.

Have you heard it? No. It's beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. So that's 20 minutes. Um, and I just, I listened to my music. I got my candle on and I'm sitting there in my posture. There's no like specific methodology.

No, I, I really, I'm really just trying to be there and to not to dance with, I want to dance with my thoughts a little bit, the bad thoughts I want to be there and to not to dance with, I want to dance with my thoughts a little bit, the bad thoughts I want to kick out, but I, it's a really creative time for me, but I do want to get more comfortable being in silence and in stillness. Cause that's hard for me. If you can't tell from my, my energy, um, and that just brings peace to everything, you know? And so I would, ideally I'd wake up between four 30 and five. I would do my morning ritual, have my warm drinks, my meditation, my breathing, you know, have breakfast ready for the kids, have a good hour with them before school.

And then I'd go to work. You know, I'd bust my butt on the beach with my coach. So work is, yeah, let's, let's like unpack like what the training is. Okay. So I have a couple of different trainings that I do. I have my beach volleyball training with my coaches and my partner sometimes i'm by myself with three coaches sometimes i'm with a lot of times with april and another team or we play men or we're just going through training a lot of touches that's how it goes down right two two and a half hours yeah just north of the pier in

maham beach so do you have like like crazy fans that come by and like are like watching you not crazy fans like distract you and stuff? No, once in a while. You know, as Rio is getting closer, we'd hear USA like all the time. It was so rad. But mostly people just sit up on the kind of on the hill and they'll watch, be totally quiet. And once in a while you hear some claps. You're like, oh, people are there.

But it's a pretty private setting for a public beach, you know. So people are rad. It's really cool. We like Pete Carroll rides by sometimes like, Oh, that was Pete. You know, and just, you just kind of get ramped up a little bit. Um, Connor Dwyer, like there's just some athletes that come by and just kind of gets you refocused. Yeah. Stud. Um, and super enthusiastic about, you know, sports. And so that's kind of fun energy to be around. Um, and we're playing on Holly McPeak's court. I don't know if you know her, she's a legend in our sport energy to be around and we're playing on Holly McPeak's court I don't know if you know her she's a legend

in our sport superstar and we're playing on her court in front of her house so it's just an inspired place but we'll be there and my coach is Brazilian and Brazilians don't train like any other people I know and he is in particular he's just ridiculous

his brain is genius and so when we go for an hour and a half, two hours, we're getting at least triple the touches of any other team on the beach. I have no doubt just the way he formats his drills. Um, and so we're busting our asses for, for that amount of time. So it's a combination of like scrimmage play and drills. There's a lot of, there's a lot of skills work within the drills. Um, we do a scrimmage play, you know, that's just on certain days, but for the most part, we're just getting touches on the ball and certain, you know, he'll set up certain scenarios and you have to work through

it. And there's a lot of wash drills and all these things. So it's competitive. Um, but you're not always against another team. Sometimes just you're competing against yourself, which is so fun. Um, that's two and a half hours in the morning. Max, Max, our coach is, you know, he's a fan of getting in, getting out, being really focused. Um, yeah, so that's in the morning. And then after that, I will either have Pilates in the studio, um, which I do once or twice a week, or I'll do a beach workout, um, with my Pilates instructor, Carrie on, um, on the beach and working on, you know, ladder drills and dynamic movement and flexibility, mobility, all these things.

I do fast twitch lifting, weightlifting twice a week with Tommy Knox. But it's, you know, Tuesdays are your standard kind of Olympic weights, weightlifting, you know, you're doing deadlifts and squats and cleans, all these things. And then Thursdays is more kind of crazy circuit work, body weight work, working on being really explosive and dynamic. He's down in Orange County. We've been, I've, since my first year on the beach, I've been with Tommy. He's just a genius. I love him with all my heart. Um, and so we're in, that's about an hour and a half that we're down there. So three hours a week we're lifting. Um, and then I, now I work with, uh, my trainer at the Bay club. Um, he's like a thoracic spine mobility specialist.

And his goal for me is to create space where I'm lacking it and then fill it in with muscle. And just so I'm just so much structurally more aligned and using my body. How many of these things are like new in the last couple of years? Like how has this evolved? Just the last one is new. Just with Eric, with my thoracic specialist. years? Like how is this a fall? Just the last one is new, just with Eric, with my thoracic specialist. Um, but I'm, I, all of my experts that I lean on, they evolve so much every year. I'm never doing the same thing twice ever. Um, and they know me so well, you know, it's a luxury

to go to my physical therapist and to Tommy at Fast Twitch, who's also my chiropractor and also puts me on the standard process cleanse. Um, who knows me so well and just knows, you know, if I'm feeling this way, okay, let's attack it this way. At the same time, they challenge me in new ways all the time. Right. So what do you think is the biggest sort of evolution in how you've approached your training, you know, perhaps maybe like 10 years ago versus today? Like, you know, training techniques are always changing and evolving. Yeah, yeah. But is there like a philosophical difference or, you know, and also as you get older, I would imagine strength training and injury prevention type work becomes much more paramount. So with Tommy and Carrie and Eric,

they're all my physical therapists as well. So everything I do is just, you know, I'm taking care of that side of the coin as well. You know, I'm not, I'm, they're not crushing me. Like some trainers you go to and they're like, I want to make you throw up. I want to make everything burn and hurt. And I don't have one of those on me. You know, they just, they, they're consistent and it's gnarly, but it's really smart. And it's all about being in alignment and, you know, using my core and doing things right. Um, so I think the biggest shift over the past 10 years is just that realizing that recovery is a huge part of success. And the longer I play, obviously that's gonna play more of a role.

I don't need to beat my head against the wall. I'm not 25 anymore. I can just do it smarter. And you've had like a bazillion surgeries on your shoulder, right? Just five. Just five, right? So how does that influence

how you approach strength training and the work that you do on the sand? I mean, do you have to be tender around it? Are you doing extra work around it to build it up? Yeah, certainly. I attack it. I'm really working on just getting my shoulder stable. It's very stable.

After my last surgery, I dislocated twice, which I had never done that before. And that was not fun. But once I got put back in place. It's not made to, like, pound the ball for 25 years straight. Yes, it is. I'm going to show you it is. Just a couple of surgeries, but no. Yeah. So I'm just putting myself together. And what I learned after my last surgery, my shoulder didn't feel like it was part of my body, you know, cause it was just on its own for so long. And so I'm just really trying to incorporate and know that, you know, my big toe is related to my right shoulder and just, you know, use my body more so it takes pressure off.

But that's why Eric is so important to me because I, my thoracic specialist, because he's just getting, he's getting me right. You know, I'm getting so much more power in my hips and stability in my hips and mobility so that, and in my thoracic, so that all my appendages, there's so much power and there's more for them to lean on. And in terms of recovery, like beyond sleep, are you doing specific things like massage or acupuncture? I mean, I know you can cover yourself in kinesio tape. I know. Yeah, which I appreciate. KT tape has helped me a lot for sure. I mean, it's not a magic bullet by any means, you know, but just turning certain muscles off and activating certain muscles like I, and flushing certain things. Like I really believe

in it. Um, but I'm a big fan of acupuncture for sure. Um, I love a cupping. Um, I don't do these things that often. I'm always joking. Like this was the Rio was the Olympics of cupping. I didn't see anything just came out of the clock. Yeah. It's weird when you're an athlete at the Olympics, you don't have the perspective of what we're seeing because you're not watching nbc right day right but i can tell you that every time they went to a commercial break if they weren't showing beach volleyball it was your face like you were everywhere oh no that's obnoxious no but i mean they were look hopefully your sport was front and center like it was thank you i appreciate that so much but the other funny thing was that there were so many athletes with you know the cupping marks all over them a lot of swimmers

but other athletes too and everyone's like what is this thing that's hilarious well it's the same exact thing as kt tape in beijing because people are like oh my gosh what is what is carrie wearing she's wearing a bikini and all this tape and they finally saw the tape but the tape has been around forever and cupping is ancient yeah you know um I just really like seeing all that jazz come up when you cup. I feel like for sure it's working. I just did it for the first time a couple months ago. It was great. Yeah.

I really liked it. It's pretty interesting. And just the thoughts behind it, it really is. So funny story. I was in China once, and I just had some knee pain. And they're like, can we cup you? I was like, yeah, of course. You know, you guys invented this stuff.

I'm in the right hands. And I'm sitting on this table, and they spray my leg with this spray, and then they do the fire and the cup, and my leg catches on fire. It was the gnarly, and I was trying to put it out, and she's like, no, no, trying to hold me down. I'm like, my leg's on fire. It was the craziest cupping experience ever, but I still to put it out. She's like, no, no. Trying to hold me down. I'm like, my legs on fire. It was the craziest cupping experience ever. Um, but I still don't shy away. I don't know what she was spraying me for. It was so nuts. It was so crazy. She's like, don't worry

about it. She was like trying to like get me to not put the fire out. And I was just like, um, hold up. We got some flames here, but yeah, that's a unique situation. But, um, yeah, I love all those modalities and I'm a big fan of body work. I'm a huge fan. I have a, um, a Heller worker, a rolfer that I work with, uh, Dan Ross in Laguna and he works on my fascia. Like I just, the more I learned about fascia, the more it's, I just feel like it's just where it's at. And if we can kind of unbind all that, then our systems can move more fluidly. There's so much more power there. So that would be my favorite thing to do as far as rehab is concerned. And then the sleep and the nutrition and the meditation. Yeah. Have you ever done like compression gear or Norma tech boots or any of these weird things? I have, I don't love them.

Do you do that? I've never used the boots. I mean, I have compression. Just uncomfortable. Yeah. But I mean, people swear by it. Yeah. You know, I feel like if it's good for your brain, then it's good for you, you know, to a certain extent. If this allows you to calm down and let your body feel like it's relaxing, that's great. But yeah, we call the boots normies, the Normatec boots, and I've done them a couple of times, but yeah. So, all right. So two and a half hour beach workout, then some combination of these strength sort of appointments that you

have throughout the day. So you're doing like three workouts a day or two or three usually last year is more like three. Um, but my coach, I just had a meeting in the middle of the day. Never. No, I'm dead sprinting for sure. And then, yeah, like when I go down to orange County for fast Twitch, I have my interviews and, you know, going down, talking to media, doing whatever. Um, so there's really never a moment to like eat while being seated and not driving or just be quiet. Like really there's not. Um, and so that's something I'm really looking forward to changing, but I love all of my workouts and I love all my people and they're my family at this point. And so the thought of like cutting something out is not going to happen. Um, cause I believe in all of our work we do together.

So I just need to schedule better. And is there like a periodic schedule and how you approach the training in terms of like where it intensifies and, you know, rest and recovery weeks or days, or, I mean, or do you just go out at seven days a week or, you know, what does that look like over a calendar year? So preseason, in-season and post-season, all those workouts are very different. I'm in preseason right now. I start competing early February. So we're going to start actually getting on the beach in a month. But yeah, so now I'm just start lifting weights, you know, trying to bulk up a little bit.

And then as we get closer to actually being on the beach, we'll start being more dynamic and working on my agility, all these things. But I really lean on my people for that, you know, for the progression and for the evolution of the workouts. So Tommy knows what he does. Marcia, our coach, knows what he does. You know, I don't want to go out on day one on the beach

like doing everything. That's A, it's not smart for my body and B, I just, I want to build up and do it. Kind of get that foundation set and then go from there. So when you sort of look back over your career, beyond whatever God-given talent that you have, what do you attribute your success to or your longevity to? And what might people not know beyond the narrative that you read

in whatever website? I think the longevity comes because I love it. Truly love what I do. I love the growth, personal growth. I love the relationships I've developed. And I love the lifestyle. I mean, it's just really beautiful. All of those things.

How have you avoided burnout? I love it. With all my heart. So you've never waned. You've never been like, I just need. What's the longest break that you've taken? Usually it's just an off season. Which is usually.

And then you're ready to go. And then I'm always ready. And during the during the off season, you just, do you ever just like do nothing? Usually for a month and which is pretty hard vacation or something like that. Um, or be home and just do nothing. You know, Tommy, our guy, he's like, you need to take at least two weeks off, at least two weeks off of everything. Let your systems recover. And that's always like pulling teeth. Um, but no, I'm, you know, I'm a physical person. I'm happier. I'm a better wife when I'm physical, you know, using my body. So, and, and mommy, um, yeah, so I don't like to stop that much. But, um, you know, after Beijing, after my husband and I kind of gotten our pickle, um,

I had my baby and, um, or prior to getting pregnant, I was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm done. I need more in my life. And Casey and I just started to start a family. And, you know, so that kind of filled in that, that hole I was missing. And it was the most beautiful adjustment and evolution that I've ever experienced in my life. And so, and then my other boy Sundance was born less than a year after Joey, They're three days shy of a year apart. And so I had two years of... And he was the one you were pregnant with when you were playing in the Olympics? No, that's Scout. Scout, okay.

That's Scout, yeah. And she's three and a half. That was so badass, by the way. So rad. It was so early, but my gosh. I know, it's still like... I mean, it counts, for sure. What? You're pregnant?

I know, it's so cool. My favorite thing about that is when I, when I realized I was pregnant, I was doing an ice bath after a match. My husband is in the room, um, in London with the boys, like ordering room service at like one in the morning. And I'm like, Hey babe, I'm like, I think I'm late. And he looked at me, he's like, that's how he yelled. He's like, that's how we do it. And there was like, that was it. And we're like, yay. And then I told Misty the next day and she's like, am I supposed to be surprised? You know, it's like, but it was,, that was it. And we're like, yay. And then I told Misty the next day and she's like, am I supposed to be surprised? You know, it's like, but it was, it's such a beautiful thing being a parent and being

a professional athlete. Like it's, it's a juggle that I love with all my heart. But the, the success in my career has certainly been because A, I love it. I'm willing to work for it. And then B, I, A plus is I'm surrounded by great people who make me better. And my teammates have been out of this world and my supporting staff is insane. So that's where excellence comes from. What do you think are the common mistakes that most athletes make as somebody who's

around athletes has been around athletes for your entire life witnessing you know all manner of uh you know people doing well and people's falling short of their of their potential like what have you observed or is there a commonality or a common theme um we're like if they would just can't they just see if they just did this well i think be able to get over that hump or why are they still doing that oh you know i don't i don't really pay that much attention to people doing their thing really um but what i do know of human nature and what i do know of my own experience um is that we get in our own way a lot and that goes one of two ways a you think you have it and you know it all and so you're not gonna lean on the experts and learn

or b you're gonna limit yourself because you know it all, and so you're not going to lean on the experts and learn, or B, you're going to limit yourself because you're afraid to push yourself out of this box. And so that's what I see happening sometimes with athletes. They're like, no, I got it. I've been doing this for 10 years. I know what I'm doing. And there's, I mean, curiosity is like one of the best things in life. Right, the idea that there's no room for growth or improvement anymore.

Right, yeah, you've got it. And that you're so comfortable in your situation and the plan you've developed, which is great. There's a beautiful thing there. But never be afraid to grow and to be curious about different ways of you're going to burn out so quick if you don't change things up. And then limiting yourself is just as bad. I love that you said earlier, like, oh, there's so many, there's so many things that I can improve on and grow. And that's great. That enthusiasm and that understanding, that knowledge, that awareness that you do have that room. Oh man. I mean, what are, what, if you were to analyze, you know, what your Achilles heels are or what your weaknesses are, like, where's the focus? Like, where are you looking to grow and expand?

And not just on the sand, but in life. Well, I think it's all my life stuff will enhance my court stuff for sure. So getting comfortable in the silence, creating silence in my life and the stillness, I honestly believe that that will pay dividends on the court. Like no doubt. I will just be on.

Can I say a bad word? I already have already. Say whatever you want. So have you seen that thing on Instagram where it just says unfuckwithable? Yeah. I just really want to be unfuckwithable all the time. And I feel like if I create this, you know, this safe space for myself, and if I really just take care of myself the way I really want to,

then I will be unfuckwithable. And so just the mindfulness and the meditation and the silence, like I was talking about, um, man, but I'm addicted to growth. And I had this conversation with your Bay, like after Casey and I got through a hard time, um, I'm like, I'm so afraid. I'm so afraid to stop growing because I never want to, I just don't want to be stagnant and I never want to be in the situation that we're in. And he's like, he's like, you're not, he's like, you just, you got to just keep experiencing things and keep living life and, you know, be where your feet are and don't be afraid to be uncomfortable is a huge thing that Gervais

taught us. And, um, you know, if you have a choice to stay safe and stay in your box, and then you have in one hand, you have another choice of being a little bit uncomfortable and growing, always choose the growth and the discomfort. And so I'm doing that on a regular basis. And it's really fun. And the enthusiasm is just natural, because like, oh, my God, I've never like looked at life from this perspective. You know, it's, it's so fun. Well, you're a very enthusiastic person. I'm getting this coming across. I know, despite my lack of coffee and but just just the awareness like that, that you have an interest in in wanting to grow speaks volumes, right? It's like most, you know, look, most people

they don't that doesn't occur to them or you know, getting out of your groove or your lane is very, very difficult, right? Yeah. Yeah, I just you know, I'm trying to be people who who are just constantly curious and who are, you know, some of my friends are a little bit older and they're just getting better and better and better and better. And they're in their mid-50s and they're just rock stars and they're better than they were 10 years ago. And so, and I'm listening to a lot of Abraham Hicks, you know, Law of Attraction. And I just did Laird and Gabby, their XPT experience. Insanity. Do it.

With Brian? Yeah, with Brian. Excuse me, Brian McKenzie, who I adore. Like I am. Insanity. Do it. With Brian? Yeah, with Brian. Excuse me, Brian McKenzie, who I adore. So I bet. I mean, they're in your hood. Was it one of the ones where Wim was there? No, no, but they walked us through it and it was just so rad. I just don't even have the right words for it. There's another one in Kauai coming up, like all of your listeners should go. But it's just game changer they're doing them like it seems like there's one every month really yeah i think this is our last one

for 2016 at least but i just can't gabby has always been just such a a high point for me and someone who i would definitely love to you know model my life after because she's doing it you know she's been a game changer in her career and in her life and now she's inspiring people to keep getting better in life. And Laird is Laird, doing the exact same thing as Gabby and his turf. And he's just, he's it. He's as legit as it gets. It's just crazy who they are and what they do.

And they're together. And it's gnarly. And they've gone through, they've gone through, I didn't even turn my phone off. What a rookie. You know, they've gone through it. Right. Gabby was my second podcast guest on the show. No way, I didn't even turn my phone off. What a rookie. You know, they've gone through it. Right. Gabby was my second podcast guest on the show. No way.

I didn't listen. We were, I mean, it was episode two, like four years ago. That's so rad. Because I started the podcast, we were living in Kauai, on the North Shore of Kauai. Okay. So they were kind of around or whatever. And I didn't, there was no one else on the island, but there was Gabby. So, and she was willing.

Isn't she so wonderful? She was willing to do it, even though it was like episode two, you know, which was really cool. But anyway, so tell me a little bit more about the XPT. I've had Brian on the show too. Have you? Man. I mean, they're just, there's so much wisdom and I love like knowledge is one thing. Information is one thing, but there's wisdom in what they give you because they've lived it. And that was my favorite thing about the experience. It's like, I'm living a day in the life of Gabby, Laird, and Brian. And these people do not mess around. And they are so legit

and just getting more and more legit. And so that's why I was so inspired. So then we did the pool workout. Where you take the rock underwater. The weights, yeah. We had some dumbbells under there and you're working on jumps and you're swimming across the,

you know, you're doing a lap, holding your breath and trying not to drown. And it's amazing. And they're all pumping you up and should pull work out. And then we did breathing. Um, and the breathing is so intense. It was like, I saw, I was like euphoric and I've never felt euphoric before, but that's the only word I can come up with. My husband saw a dragon, like there's some stuff going on, you know, and there's this rad meditation music going on and chanting. Um, and then you have a communal lunch and just, you're sitting by these people who are wanting to change their lives or learn and grow. So all very like-minded people, but very open-minded as well. And then, um, day two, we go up and do stand up paddle with Laird.

I mean, come on, it's insane. Um, and I'm a huge fear of the ocean. And so that was like a big thing for me to overcome oh man i grew up near santa cruz and it just crushed me that murky water doing lifeguards i mean jaws just the whole bit i don't go in the water really i don't but i will now gervais took me out a month ago and he like he you know we got to work and i was so scared but um yeah so anyway this experience was just being surrounded by masters who know that there's no end to the progression in life and they, they just are not content sitting still. And what I really loved as well is that they've created the most beautiful lives, their ideal

life they're living with their tribe. Like people throw around tribe and I certainly want to try them in my life. They are a damn tribe. They do everything together. It's, you know, they just work their ass off. It's for love and there's enthusiasm and, um, they trust and love so much. I love that part. Um, and so, yeah, I just was so inspired for three days up there in Malibu. And if you get a chance, XPT, um, it's just, it's so worthwhile. It's expensive, but it's a game changer. It,

you learn nutrition, you learn workouts. You know, we did a beach workout with Laird and it's just, it's amazing. Was it the one where, did you stay at Calamigos? At that place? We did. And that place is ridiculous. It's really cool, right?

Oh my goodness. And then we went down to one of their buddies' houses on the beach in Malibu and we did the beach workout. And then we paddled. Was Darren Lean? Yeah, he gave us a talk about water so rad he's a major vegan you guys are the same yeah and he's like a layered look-alike too he totally is but you guys are all so similar and just that the like true like

the internal drive to like to know and to get acquire this wisdom and knowledge like darren you know goes to the mountains of himalaya and he's getting his hands dirty you know to find to source things he just went to brazil for like two weeks and went on some crazy super food hunt and he came back i just saw him the other day and he's like oh you gotta check out these like brew nuts and like you have all this crazy stuff and he was so excited about it it's beautiful and yeah it's it's amazing what that right i mean just the joy in that too people yes it is and they just get dirty with this crazy you know olympic gold medalist to go up there and be excited about it

and to you know come away from that not only inspired but with information that you can then implement to continue to grow and progress as an athlete. Oh man, it was a gift. It was a total gift. And I love that we were able to do that. I'm so grateful to them. And we literally are setting up our home gym and all these things inspired by Gabby and Laird. And I want to get a cold tub. No, but I want to, if we lived in Malibu, we could, we just don't have that much space here. But, um, but I believe in all of it, you know, and not that I, and I just want to make up my own to like learn from them and then get into my rhythm with it. And, um, you know, I don't want to be a carbon copy, but I just want to be inspired by them.

Right. That's great. Yeah. Well, so you need to do it. Sorry. Well, yeah, I know I could do it. Well, I can go do it anyway. I don't need to do it.

No, exactly. Like they have, there's a whole, there's a thing in Malibu. Like there's this whole like kind of like group that gets together to work out on Saturdays. And it's kind of like you need entree to it. And like it's a whole thing. No goofballs allowed. And like I've actually been invited into it. And I've been like scared. Like Brian intimidates me.

Oh, do it. Oh, understandable. He's so mad. I know. But now like I actually am like we were talking before the podcast. Like, do it. Understandable. He's so good. I know. But now, like, I actually am, like, we were talking before the podcast, like, I've formalized my training and I'm coming on a program. So I'm committing now more than I have in quite a long time. So it's much more relevant.

I'm excited for you. So I'm going to step into that. Yeah. And you will be so stoked. I mean, just being around them. I mean, you know who they are. And just, they're just so, they're so pure in what they're doing. It's inspiring.

Well, to kind of, like like turn the spotlight back on you. Okay. This is your podcast. In terms of being inspiring, you, I mean, you, I'm interested in your thoughts and perspective on being a like role model for young women. Like I'm a father of two young girls and, you know, we live in this crazy reality TV, Kardashian infused world. And, you know, we're pummeled with marketing and advertising and magazines and whatever that are, um, you know, pushing a very unhealthy, uh, image of women onto young people, you know?

And it's like, and especially in Los Angeles, it's, you know, it's freaky to be a dad of two young women in Los Angeles. And so I think what you do becomes all the more kind of potent and relevant. And it's beautiful that, you know, your accomplishments can stand for something and young women can look to you. And I appreciate that. Like people say, oh, there's no strong female role models. Of course there are. There's lots of them, but we just need to do a better job. We're just not in the cover of the magazines. Yeah. We need to do a better job as a culture of highlighting that. Right.

And you're in a situation where you get a lot of bandwidth every four years. Right. And so how do you, how do you think about that? And, or do you think about that? And, you know, how do you, you know, sort of approach this idea that you are indeed this role model figure? person and I was, you know, born and raised into that environment. And, um, so I'm not thinking of, of being impactful in any statements that I'm making. I'm not strategizing on how to, you know, to inspire these girls other than just living a really true and honest life to myself. Um, and my daughter's three and a half, so I'm not in that world of the, you know, the teenagers yet, but,. But yeah, I just... It starts early. Oh my gosh. I mean, I have a niece, Murphy, who she's 10.

And yeah, she's feeling it, you know, and girls are crazy. Girls are gnarly too. So, but I just, I don't even know, you know, I just, I'm pretty oblivious to certain things. And I think that's been a blessing in my life because it's just like, I know what I want in life and I know who I want to be. And I don't really care. You know, I love looking at those magazines. I'm such a girl in that respect. I love clothes, love all these things, but I know what I like, you know, and my, my parents always loved me up and my husband loves me up and tells me I'm enough. And,

and more importantly, I feel pretty good about myself. So I love that my sport is empowering. We get a lot of grief for our uniforms and it's just, it drives me out of my mind because the last thing I want to be out there is sexy. I love that it's a sexy sport. Like I, body's in motion to me regardless of what it is, is beautiful. And there's an element of sex appeal there cause it's just beautiful.

I was watching football last night and I'm like, why don't these guys get grief about their pants? I mean, come on, you can see everything, you know, but it's silly because it's, it's sports performance and it's the same thing for us, you know? So when we get those, those critics out there, I'm just like, you just, you know, come, come do what we do.

And you'll know, you'll know in a heartbeat. Um, so the criticism is, oh, this is volleyball light because you're in a bikini and what I don't, I don't know that I'm aware of. I've had feminists say you're bringing the woman's movement back you know how dare you um objectify yourself and I'm just like that's the last thing I'm doing I'm I'm an empowered strong woman you know let me wear my sports bra and my bikini if I wear sweats I'm gonna get turf toe because I'm gonna trip up and you know like and I'm playing in Brazil it's 90 degrees what do you want me to wear? And to me, it's just a little bit of ignorance. And I just, if someone wants to wear a string bikini out there

and go and be sexy and play beach volleyball, who the hell cares? I don't wanna do that, but that's okay. I'm not gonna judge you. If people, we have some girls this past Olympics wore shorts and a t-shirt. Beautiful, perfect. Go and do you.

I love that. I don't wanna impose myself on anybody. I wanna be comfortable with where I'm at. And I certainly don't want to change who I am because of, you know, what's out there. Right. And that, that strong sense of self, uh, sort of manifested itself recently in this stand that you took by, uh, by choosing not to participate in some turnouts. In the AVP, yes. In the AVP, right? So can you talk a little bit about what's going on there? Sure. And kind of the role?

Because I think it brings up an interesting thing to explore, which is the role of the athlete and the power of the athlete amidst these organizations that are sort of profiting and making decisions without the input of the very people that make it possible. Yeah, no, absolutely. I feel, you know, I'm really proud of my sport. I'm really proud to play on the AVP. I'm proud of the growth of beach volleyball globally. And I just, what I want to do in my life and certainly with anyone ideally I'm associated with is to have the highest of standards. And the AVP chose to change two pretty significant rules for the last tournament of the

year without player input. Um, and without having like any sort of truly meaningful dialogue. And it just, it really, I was like, I can't do that. Um, I tried to talk to them before Rio and this tournament happened a couple of weeks after Rio and it just, you know, it just wasn't going to happen. And so I'm like, well, I just, I can't support that. You know, if we're, if you're going to arbitrarily change the rules of our game at any point in time, we're not professional. Like that's, you know, that's kind of clownish. So I chose to do that.

I, you know, it was hard for me. It was hard. It's a huge, it's in Chicago, biggest tournament of the year, prize money on the line. I didn't play with my partner. My sponsors were upset to a certain extent, but they understood, and it's my job. And I put that on hold, and everyone's like, it's so easy for you because you have all these sponsors,

you're making money. It's like, that's not how I look at it. Certainly I'm in a blessed position, but this is my job, and I chose to stand for the, ideally for the integrity of the sport. And I felt really good about that. My husband did as well. I got a lot of emails, a couple emails from athletes when they were in Chicago saying, Carrie, we can't afford to sit out, but we appreciate what you do. But it's, it was a lonely position.

It's ballsy. Sucks, man. Yeah, it's ballsy. But I think, you know, what we're seeing across the board, especially in some of these, you know, more niche sports, you know, aside from football and basketball and all of that is, you know, an influx of money and interest, which is great. Right. And it allows people like yourself to, you know, have have long careers. But at the same time, when when when people are profiting, it, it, it goes without saying that the athlete should have a say in how that grows. And, and, and we have these various sports and organizations that are not, you know,

for lack of a better word, like unionized to the extent that athletes are able to give their input. I mean, you see this in professional triathlon, like a lot of, and like, you know, athletes getting together, like we should have an organization so that we can like, you know, vote or speak our mind about what's right and what we don't agree with. Truly. But that comes down to the athletes. Like we need to create that, right? Because I have no problem with them making money, go make a boat ton of money, please. And ideally you give back to the sport and you respect the athletes and everybody. So I don't, I don't mind that. I just, you know, in a perfect world,

the athletes would have been like, you're right, let's do this together, you know? But there's a lot of fear out there and, you know, people have their own reasons for playing and so I absolutely don't judge. But I just feel like if we, I'm such a fan of collaboration and teamwork and what's good for one is good for the other

and make things work. And so ideally every corporation every you know avp would be run like that but um i think you have to push for that too yeah because so in the wake of taking that stand did anything change or no not that i know of um i i'm hoping they don't do the rules because it just, I saw it on TV and it just looked ridiculous. And it was just confusing. And our sport is so great enough. It's like, we need to fix our marketing strategy and the way we televise our sport because the Olympics, our sport looks legit, you know, and then you see the AVP and it's just less because it's a lot of money. NBC doesn't mess around, you know? And so we just need to just change a couple of things,

not change the game, but change how we, you know, bring it to the public. And I feel like that'll change things. We don't need to change rules, especially last minute without talking to the peeps. Let's talk a little bit about parenting. Yeah. Oh God. How does, uh, you don't have to. No, I just, my, my, I just, I don't have very good language about any of these things. And then parenting, I'm just like, ugh. Well, I'm interested in how your experience as an athlete kind of spills into, you know, how you're raising your kids. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, do you have kids that are, can you tell if they're athletic minded? Sure. Do you like try to, you know, incorporate that into their day? Like what's your approach to, you know, sort of. Lots of love. Yeah. Lots of love and everything. Um, our kids are physical for sure. Um, so Joey is seven, Sundance is six, Scout is three. And, um, they're all just entirely different in how they move and how they attack the game.

Joey and Sundance are in sports right now and they could not be more different. Like Joey's joy looks more like Casey and I weren't competing. We're just like, so just intense and aware and just alert. And Sundance is out there on, you know, playing soccer and he's like, shoot,

shoot, shoot, shoot. He's like shooting these invisible things, but then he'll go hard. And you know, and that's his joy. And,

um, and then Scouty, she just is really physical, um, and balanced. And so it's really cool to see the differences them. Like growing up, I would trip over nothing. Like I was on the ground bloody all the time. Just so, so klutzy. And Sundance Thomas has that, my boy. So I'm like, God bless you, babe. It's going to

get better. I promise. But he will do things a million times until he gets it. But it takes him a million times to get something. Whereas Joey gets it from the start, you know? So parenting, we just, we love to have our kids around as much as possible. Like my parents did a really good job in planting seeds. When I was growing up, they would take me to Stanford. They'd take me to, you know, Giants games. They'd take me to whatever. And I'd be inspired and be like, Ooh, maybe I want to do that one day, you know? And so certainly Casey and I do that in our parenting. So would you go and play? Did the kids come with you? Did they come to Rio? A lot. They did not go to Rio just because we played at midnight and it's Rio. You know, I didn't want them to get sick. Um, and it

would have been a lot of work for my husband and you know, not fair because I wouldn't get to see him that much. So they stayed home, but, um, yeah, no, they come on the road. We play AVP. They come on the road a lot and they're so dang cute. And the older they get, you know, at some point earlier on, they're like, what are we doing here? We don't want to be at the beach. We're like, come on, we're at the beach, suck it up. But now they get it a little bit more. And during the games, they get it. We don't like to be at the beach. My 12-year-old daughter is like, I don't like going to the beach. I'm like, what is wrong with you? I grew up on the East Coast. The idea, we can go to the beach. Oh, you're so cute. I know we're so spoiled. It's so crazy.

But our kids, I don't know. I mean, we're so spoiled. Yeah. It's so crazy. But like our kids, I don't know, I mean, your kids are a little bit older, but like my kids just want constant engagement with us. We're like,

can you just go play a little bit? Go and figure it out. But I love that they love us so much and they just are always on top of us and, you know,

we do a lot together. We do so much together. We don't have, the kids, all three are in school. So, you know, they're pretty much taken care of until three and then it's family time after that. Do don't have, um, the kids, all three are in school. So, you know, they're pretty much taken care of until three. Um, and then it's family time after that. You guys have like help, like nanny or anything like that? We don't, we have a short list of sitters. Um,

when our kids were young up until they're one and a half, we had a nanny, um, Sandra, who's part of our family at this point, she helped us with all three kids, but then our kids grew out of us really fast. Like they were in school pretty early and they've been thriving and they're in Montessori in those programs and Joey's in the Catholic school system now, which I grew up in. And it's just beautiful. So I don't have a parenting philosophy

other than just to love them up and to keep them close and to keep them to standards because I feel like they're so capable and they're so damn smart. And I want them to know what's right and wrong and they inherently know. So I certainly also don't want to be like a taskmaster. Like I just want to be a guide, a guidance system.

And I find myself saying no all the time. And I need to find a better word. I know, but it's so lame. I'm like, I'm crushing your joy right now, but don't do it. You know, like, cause sometimes you have but don't do it you know like because sometimes you have to take a spill you know like we have this back wall this retaining wall our kids love jumping up on it and you know i feel like we just gotta let them maybe take a fall once in a while but i i agree with that i don't know right but it's hard you're like you're my baby so it's kind

of that yeah but i think we're in a culture now where we're a little too overprotective. Certainly. And I think kids are overscheduled and overstimulated and you got to just let them be kids. I absolutely agree. Totally. Yeah. And our kids, like they're a little bit slow to the game. Like they just started playing soccer and AYSO and we're definitely kind of keeping them more time at home than anywhere else. Soccer has begun. I know, but soccer, oh my gosh. I feel like if you could play soccer, you could play anything. So I love that it's the first one they got into.

Just that footwork, you know. It grants them around what it's like to be on a team too, which is really good. That's the best part of all. Socialization. Yeah, yeah. All right, cool. So we got to wrap this up in a little bit,

but I want to kind of explore before we shut it down, like this idea of legacy. we shut it down um like this idea of legacy like when you're when it's all said and done you know and your athletic career is over like what do you what do you want it to like what would you like it to stand for like what does it mean to you or do you not even think about that i don't think about that you're just and i wish i had a great answer because that's an important thing to think about but i but i like that you're just and i wish i had a great answer because that's an important thing to think about but i but i like that you're not you know calculated like something like this is what it needs to be you know what i mean like you're just you're enjoying your i get i get it's very clear

that you're just you're having fun you know which is cool like you have like this joy about your life and what you do i think it would be very easy for somebody like you to just be like jaded, like, okay, like I got to play four more years. Like, Oh man, no, it's a choice. Like it's set my life as a choice, you know? And I, I signed up to be a parent. I signed up to be married. I signed up to, you know, put myself on the line when I'm playing my sport. Um, so there's not a lot of sacrifice involved. It's like, I'm doing what it takes, what's required. And the doing of what it takes is a really important, joyful part for me. Cause that's where the growth is.

You know, Abraham Hicks quote, she's like the spot from where you are and where you want to be. That's, that's the good stuff of life. And so that's just kind of where I'm at right now with parenting, with everything, with my marriage, with my career. Yeah. I don't mind getting dirty. I don't, I don't mind getting dirty i don't i don't mind you know

conflict i just i know it all leads to a better place if you believe in that better place and so yeah the abraham hicks stuff is out there i love it i know right i know being a catholic it's really i because i feel like it can resonate with everybody but it's a little bit hokey to say out loud yeah to try to explain she's like channeling this, you know. Collective conscience. Yes. Or God. Yeah.

I know. But like, she's unfaltering. Like, if you ever listen to Esther Hicks speak. I have. There's not, like, she doesn't waver. There's, I have never found a discrepancy ever. Not that I'm not even looking for it, obviously. If I were, I wouldn't because it's just so constant.

So I just believe in it. And I'm not being sold a bill of goods. You know, I just, I want to live a better life. And I feel like she's helped me get on my own way. I don't want you to give me happiness. I want to create my own happiness, you know? It comes from within. Totally.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you have, do you have like, are there people that you look to for inspiration or mentorship? Or are there books that you read? Like, as we close this down, like, you know, where do you kind of come down on that? I literally have become a podcast junkie. So your podcast, again, thank you.

I love it. I love Tim Ferriss. And I love Gervais. So those are my three. And between you guys, the people, the inspired people that you guys interview, it's just, it's a game changer for me, you know, and it totally is expedited learning. It's total inspiration, you know, in an hour and a half of listening. And I love the intimacy of the podcast. You know, like, I'm just so immersed in it. And it's just, I'm not like making sense of it. I'm listening to it and just, it's hitting something in me and I really appreciate it. I love reading. Um, I just watched Tony Robbins, his documentary, I'm not your guru. And I wasn't familiar with him before. And I just, I was going to go see him in San Jose last week. He was in my hometown. Um, but I couldn't make that happen. So I'm just, you know, I'm, I'm on the search, but ultimately at some point I'll sit

down with your van. I'll make it make sense with myself but i'm inspired by every by everything like truly and then i just have to kind of bring it inside and internalize it and then live it are you so you're still working with michael yes not enough god i need him but um i like he's been everybody needs a little more michael he's just i mean he's he's a gift to this world and he's like, he's the ultimate guide. You know, he, he's so unjudgmental. It's gnarly how safe I feel with him. Cause he knows, you know, everything about me, like the darkest parts of me, he knows. And he's like, I'm, you're okay. You're still cool with me. And that's, that's really special. And we've been through a lot together and, um, yeah, yeah. He's, I'm glad he's on my team.

Yeah. Finding mastery. Everyone check it out, yeah. He's, I'm glad he's on my team. Yeah, Finding Mastery, everyone check it out. Everybody check out Finding, I'm always pushing his podcast. It's so damn good. I just listened to Drew Bledsoe. I love that, I love that. Yeah, yeah, you and Mike were cute. I love that.

You guys do good. Good, yeah, well, I could go and do it with him every week. You know, what happens. I know, right? Well, that's interesting. Anyway, yeah, maybe we could do a separate. I'd love to do one with him because he could help me make sense of my thoughts. He won't.

Oh no, like him and I sitting here and you talk to us. Oh, right, right, right. I know, I know. I was a little offended by that for a little bit. What do you mean? I just took it personally. I'm like, you don't want me on your podcast? He can't.

Come on, doc. He totally can. But I respect his point of view for sure well what he's saying is because i asked him the same question i was like yeah but what if one of your patients wants to do it like they're the ones that sit on that that privilege if they want to waive it like you could do it and he's like yeah but then somebody listening to that might not who who who might want to work with me might feel like they don't because they'll be put in a position. So it jeopardizes his stuff. Yeah, exactly.

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I would never want that, my gosh. Yeah, I can understand. It's like it would just be, he just can't go there. Okay, well, thanks. Okay, forgive you, doc. I was, I was like, what? I'm just not ready yet.

I'm not a master yet, which I'm certainly not. I don't even know what a master is really. But yeah, I took it super personally and then um but i love him so much so there's a purpose behind everything he does well maybe if maybe if we the three of us do it together he'll he'll chill out on that yeah i know we'll see there's a way to make everything work but it's all right yeah i got some more work to do trying to keep that line intact yeah no i i don't doubt him. Well, awesome. So this is great. Thank you.

Thank you. You know what? I feel like I was so nervous about doing this because I don't, like I'm a feeling person. Like I feel, you know, and to articulate certain things, this is why I'll never be a coach. Like articulation of like my methods or my thoughts or my parenting. Like it's just hard for me because I just feel it. And then I do it, you know? So I hope it wasn't too feely. No, you're being real.

Listen, if you sat down and said, okay, here are the five things that you need to, whatever, like it just would not ring true. Yeah, yeah. I just appreciate you being open and honest. And this was fun. It was fun. And maybe we can do it again.

Thank you for your patience because I get a little scattered. So I appreciate it. Oh no, it's totally fine. It happened when it was supposed to happen. Sure. You know, so do you have anything coming up right now? Like, are you going on the road or do you have any tournaments coming up or this is

just preseason? It's preseason. Kid talk. Oh my gosh. Usually preseason starts in February and it just feels wrong to be starting December, but that's okay. So what's the next big thing? We, I mean, Thanksgiving, Christmas,

next big thing in my life. And then after that first tournaments in Fort Lauderdale, um, or first weekend in February, the AVP will be coming up. Um, I'm working on a lot of business stuff that I wish I could talk to you about, but once it's maybe further down the road, um, but yeah, it's just right now it's kind of the time for creativity and just kind of getting back to my roots and getting all filled up before the madness starts again. Right. And do you have any tournaments that are going to be in LA? I want to come and watch.

Manhattan beach. Yeah. The granddaddy. Usually it's in August. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, let me know.

All right. And then Long Beach, Long Beach is a grand slam. The whole world is here. The best in the world are here. And that's usually end of July. So that wouldn't be great too. Yeah. Yeah. Are you going to write a book book i don't know oh my god about what

about what that's the best answer ever about what yeah no i don't know i don't know you should yeah i had this thought and i really you know who paulo coelho is right the alchemist i was like i really want to get in touch with him and i want him to Coelho is, right? The alchemist. I was like, I really want to get in touch with him and I want him to do my life story, but like in the alchemist framework. So it's like a fable and there's lessons and it's whimsical and sweet. Cause that would get me out of writing it. And then it would just be rad. Cause he's rad. Cause I'd like a storytelling. Wouldn't that be a cool idea? I don't know why I would deserve that, but I would, I kind of want to pursue that. And he's impossible to find for me. Yeah. Yeah. He was on Tim Ferriss's podcast, I think, wasn't he?

I think it was by, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he was in Switzerland. He's a Brasi in Switzerland, so I gotta, I can track him down. You might have to fly there. I don't, I don't mind that. All right. Well, Paulo, if you're listening. Yeah. He's gotta be a fan of yours. Cool. So, all right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And for people that wanna connect with you on Twitter, Keri Lee Walsh. Yes.

Is that the best place? All across the board, I believe. You're just, yeah, everywhere, right? So follow her. Yes, Keri Lee Walsh. It should be Jennings. Drives me crazy it's not Jennings, but. Can you change it? It's implied. I guess you can't change it

once you have it. No, it's ridiculous. Yeah, but when you're an Olympic athlete, you probably could. Oh, well, there you go. Just contact somebody at Twitter. So I'm not working hard enough is that you're telling me I will thank you gosh I need to be my kid's mom my husband's wife awesome cool all right thanks Rich all right so how like super fantastic is she? Just absolutely delightful, right? Amazing. What a beautiful human being. I hope you guys enjoyed that.

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