The Rich Roll Podcast - Kimberley Chambers Swims With Sharks: The World’s Greatest Female Marathon Swimmer On Turning Adversity To Advantage

Episode Date: February 27, 2017

Close your eyes and imagine yourself 30 miles off the coast of San Francisco, swimming in the freezing cold, shark-infested waters famously dubbed the Red Triangle. No wetsuit. In the middle of the night. Most would call this lunacy. Kimberley Chambers calls this home. This week's guest is one of the most accomplished record-setting marathon open water swimmers in the world. Her story is incredibly inspiring, but not for the reasons you might imagine. Her story is inspiring because just nine years ago, Kim was not a swimmer at all, suffering a life-threatening accident that nearly claimed her leg and her overall enthusiasm for life. The morning started out like every other morning. The New Zealand born former ballerina and rower turned software executive left her San Francisco apartment and accidentally tripped, toppling down a treacherous flight of stairs. We saved your leg. But it’s unlikely you will walk again. The doctor's verdict presented Kim with a choice: accept permanent disability. Or prove them wrong. Needless to say, she chose the latter. After countless surgeries and an excruciatingly prolonged rehabilitation, a friend encouraged her to try swimming. Although foreign to the water, she immediately took to it. A ticket to freedom. But the real turning point came the moment she first jumped into the frigid San Francisco Bay. In an instant, she had found sanctuary. To this day, it's a love affair with cold water and the tight-knit community of like-minded souls who embrace it that changed everything about her life and how she lives it. An inner fire ignited, Kim began to channel her newfound passion into a series of death-defying, envelope-pushing open-water marathon challenges that have redefined the limits of human potential and transformed her into the elite athlete she is today. Among Kim's many accomplishments: * In 2014, she became the 6th person (and 3rd woman) in history to complete the Oceans Seven – the marathon swimming equivalent of the Seven Summits mountaineering challenge, with each of the 7 swims chosen for their treacherous water conditions and potential wildlife risks; * In 2015, she set a new world record becoming the first woman to swim 30 miles from the shark-infested Farallon Islands off the coast of San Francisco; * In September 2016, Kim attempted a non-stop 93 mile swim from Sacramento to Tiburon. However after swimming over 24 hours and 54 miles, sustained 30 knot winds rendered it unsafe for her to continue; * And just two months later, Kim led an international team of swimmers to complete an unprecedented historic swim across the Dead Sea to raise global awareness around the environmental deterioration of that critical body of water. This is a conversation about the boundaries of human potential. It's about the capacity to turn tremendous adversity into boundless opportunity. It's about finding joy and adventure outside the comfort zone. It's a conversation about reframing identity to step into and own — really own — our most authentic, fully actualized selves. And I suppose it's about how to not get eaten by a shark. Delightfully engaging, ever humble, and beautifully human, Kim embodies everything you seek in a modern day female super hero. It was a pleasure to spend time with her and it is my hope that our conversation will leave you deeply reconsidering the limits of your own potential. I sincerely hope you enjoy the exchange. Peace + Plants, Rich

We all have fears and they're different for all of us, but I can guarantee that when you pick a fear, you know, we all have many fears, pick a fear and decide to challenge it face on and you get to the other side, I guarantee you will have a transformative experience that will serve you for the rest of your life. Because again, life is not smooth sailing. And I feel like through these experiences, I've been able to equip myself with skills and lessons in how to deal with certain things. Fear is a motivator for me. If I am afraid of something, I know I have to do it um doesn't make it easy

and it's still scary but I know as I said earlier that I know from experience now that the treasure in life lies exactly right over the other side of where you are most fearful and where you are most uncomfortable. And that's magic. When you can experience it for yourself, it's magic. And so for me, fear is a motivating factor for me. That's Kimberly Chambers, and this is The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. You ever wonder what it feels like to swim through freezing cold, shark-infested waters in the pitch black dark of night without

even a wetsuit mind you well maybe you have but uh probably not either way i think you're going to be amazed i think you're going to be uplifted by the incredible story of this week's guest kim chambers kim is one of the most if not the most accomplished and inspiring record-setting marathon open water swimmers on the entire planet earth. And we have a fantastic conversation. Before we get into it, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you for subscribing to the show. Thank you for sharing it with your friends and on social media. Thank you for clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. And thank you so much for supporting my work on Patreon. I love you guys. I got a bunch more cool stuff I want to say about Kim before we get into

it today. She's just super amazing. And this episode is fantastic. Again, a great conversation, but first. Okay. Kim Chambers. Who is Kim Chambers? Well, Kim Chambers. Who is Kim Chambers? Well, Kim Chambers is a New Zealand born and bred former ballerina. She was a rower at UC Berkeley, and she's somebody who discovered swimming only six years ago while she was rehabilitating from this crazy, devastating, life-threatening leg injury. And I think it's fair to say that from the first moment she jumped into

the frigid San Francisco Bay down at Aquatic Park, she knew that was it. She was home. She fell in love with the cold water. She fell in love with the community of like-minded souls and was just magnetized by the pull of this crazy subculture. And then she set about pushing the envelope of what is humanly possible when it comes to marathon open water swimming. Amongst some of her many accomplishments, some of her many palmeras, in 2014, Kimberly became only the sixth person and third woman in history to complete something called the Oceans Seven, which is the marathon swimming equivalent of the Seven Summits Mountaineering

Challenge. It's basically seven swims that are each chosen for their treacherous water conditions and potential wildlife risks. It's just an insane adventure that we get into in the podcast. risks. It's just an insane adventure that we get into in the podcast. And then in 2015, Kimberly set a new world record by becoming the first woman to swim 30 miles from the Farallon Islands off the coast of San Francisco. This is an area of the Pacific known as the Red Triangle because it is the largest concentration of great white sharks in the world. So wrap your head around that. And that's a swim that took her 17 hours. And then in 2016, Kim joined an international team of swimmers to

complete this unprecedented historic swim across the Dead Sea, all to raise global awareness around the environmental deterioration of that critical body of water. So it was an absolute pleasure to sit down with Kim in her home in San Francisco. She's absolutely delightful. She is inspiring. She is humble. She is very human. She's essentially everything you want in a modern day female superhero. So this is a conversation, of course, about her story. It's about the boundaries of human potential. It's about how to turn adversity into advantage, how to reframe setbacks as opportunities. It's about personal growth, shedding old skin, stepping into your most authentic, fully actualized self.

It's about how to not get eaten by a shark, right? So listen up and enjoy. Thank you so much for inviting me into your home. Yeah. Here in San Francisco, you have this insane view of the Golden Gate Bridge right out your window. Yep, it's a pretty special view, yeah. And it's just a hop, skip skip and a jump up the hill from aquatic park right your home training ground yes i live this close by design so you just do you just walk down there in the mornings or in the evenings on the weekends i do it's just a lovely 10 minute walk um but on

on the weekdays you know i'm training in a pool and then i'm in the bay i'm all over the place what pool what's your home pool? So I, you know, we're in San Francisco right now, but I drive up to Marin most mornings and train with North Bay Aquatic Masters. It's at Redwood High School. I love the coaches and people like, why do you drive all the way to Marin when there are pools here in San Francisco? And, but for me, it's, it's about the camaraderie. Yeah. Do you know Chris Health? I don't. He coaches.

He's my coach. But he coaches Masters up in Marin. I don't know what pool he uses. Okay. Yeah, this is at Redwood High School. And it's just, I mean, the coaches make fun of our lane. We're lane five. And, you know, we talk a lot, but we swim a lot.

The other day, he, like, put his head over and he was like uh lane five um party of four your table's ready they were like we're just because we're just talking all the time but well that's nice because what you do is such a lonely solo pursuit right to be able to have some community yeah yeah i mean for me that's that's the key to all of this is community well let's uh let's unpack it i want to get into it your story is fascinating i've been following you for quite some time um and i think we made an effort to try to hook this up a while back like i i took a shot over the bow a while ago and just said i want to talk to you i don't remember when that was and then uh i was i had lunch with adam skullnick our mutual friend yes he's like oh you're

going to san francisco you gotta you gotta talk to kim And I was like, that's right. I do. I need to follow up on that. So I'm glad that we could make this happen. Yeah, no, I'm just delighted to have you here. So thank you. Well, the things you've done are extraordinary, you know, world's greatest marathon open water swimmer. You've done so many. And the challenge for me interviewing you is to not make it like, then you did this and then you did that. And then what happened here? You know what I mean? But I think in order to kind of create context around the magnitude of the things that you've done, it behooves us to kind of take a step back and, you know, unpack the journey that got you to this place because you didn't grow up on swim teams. Swimming wasn't your thing. Grew up in New Zealand, right?

I did. I grew up on a sheep and cattle farm. Wow. In the middle of nowhere uh-huh yeah and so you initially you were a ballerina that was your thing right yeah yeah I danced for 15 years actually under what's called the Royal Academy of Dancing and I sat exams I traveled around the country performing on stage it was a huge part of my life um and you know i think that it's given me a lot of um skills for marathon swimming you know there's definitely this discipline that we all know about ballerinas so and that was um i mean that was the dream to be a professional i mean

what do you call it, professional ballerina? Yeah, yeah. And then I, you know, I had a growth spurt. I got too tall. And then it was sort of the time that it took for me to, you know, study ballet and school and have some sort of social life. There was a point where I had a sort of a love-hate relationship with it because you see all your friends out having fun and you know you're stuck in the studio that's true of any you know elite athlete who's trying to master their craft right as a young person yeah and I experienced that as a swimmer I mean of course you hear the stories of gymnasts and tennis players who are you know sort of locked

up in these you know prisons of training in their youth, right? I mean, was it that intense for you? I mean, sometimes it felt that intense. But once I sort of, you know, when I was sort of 15 was when I really sort of sprouted and I'm 5'10 now, then it was sort of clear that, you know, that wasn't going to be my path. But I completed all of my exams so that I became qualified to teach. So I danced until the age of 17. Yeah, and it was quite a journey. You learn a lot about yourself in ballet especially. Like what?

Well, it just looks so effortless, but it is quite the opposite. It just, it looks so effortless, but it is quite the opposite. And, but there's been, you know, what I learned as a ballerina has really helped me with my swimming, but there have been a lot of differences that I've had to adjust to. You know, as a ballerina, there was, when I was dancing, there was no concept of really fueling your body or really treating your body as this machine. It was just you just wore it down. That's interesting because you obviously wanted to perform at its peak, and it's such a perfectionist pursuit, right?

Oh, absolutely. It's all about the minutia. Absolutely. And then, you know, I have an exceptionally high pain tolerance. And whether that's just something that I've always had or whether that was through, you know, years of ballet. I mean, there were times when I would take my feet out of my pointe shoes and not know how much pain I was in until I would see the blisters dripping blood through my tights. Just to be graphic. Wow.

And then that connection in my brain was like, oh, yeah, my feet are really sore now. So that served me very well in swimming, actually. You hear these stories of like cutthroat competition in ballet, right? Yeah. A lot of eating disorders. Yes. Yeah, that kind of thing, right?

Yes. Did you experience those kind of pressures? It was definitely part of eating disorders. That kind of thing, right? Did you experience those kind of pressures? It was definitely part of that community. And maybe there were a lot of us that had sort of disorders with eating because when you're not seeing anyone else fuel their body, you're watching what your peers are doing. And, you know, that being able to have that discipline to just keep pushing through, even if you are hungry.

But it's just very strange, very, very strange now they look back on it. But then you have this growth spurt. I mean, there's probably not too many 5'10 ballerinas, right? No. Like it doesn't work anymore. No. No. No.

Well, that had to be a bummer. Yeah. You know, but, you know, I have really little feet, which is not good for swimming. And I think that was sort of stunted through years of being on point. So I joke that my feet have been bound at a very young age. But, yeah, I was too tall. And, you too tall and I was more interested in school as well. And I loved to study and that sort of perfectionism definitely wove its way through all aspects of my life. So you start to teach.

I learned how to teach. You learned how to teach. Yeah, qualified to do that, but I didn't actually teach. Oh, you didn't end up doing that. And so what brought you to the United States? Yeah, so I was a very young 17-year-old when I came here. I can't believe my parents let me go. But my older brother had been recruited to UC Berkeley to row.

And I was fascinated by the fact that he was over here in America. And, you know know I traveled as a child with my family but you know to go to college in America was just something so amazing to me at the time and so I actually set the SATs at my school and got into a few schools and chose Berkeley because my brother was there and so I ended up going to Cal with my big brother and they actually recruited me onto the rowing team because they said basically well you're tall you're very coordinated and you've got great genes because of your brother and I mean I had

high pain threshold yeah but I had no upper body strength like I was not meant to be a rower. So I tried it for a few years, but let's just say I wasn't that good. And does your brother still live out here? Yeah, he does. What does he do? He lives on the East Coast. He's in property management. And he doesn't row anymore. But, you know, we still have these really close bonds with all of those teammates.

And that was real team sport for me um and all hit all the guys on his team were like my big brothers at cal so i felt pretty lucky uh good so you're already multi-disciplinary in your in your athleticism yeah right yeah and so let's fast forward to the the kind of um you know catalyst that spurned you into what you do today, right? You suffered this terrible accident. Yeah, yeah. A total freak accident on my way to work. And I look back and, gosh, I didn't even know who I was at that time.

I was working in Silicon Valley, working long hours, making pretty good amounts of money. I was on my way to work like any other day, and I used to wear really high heels. It's all about the outfit, right? And I slipped down the staircase where I was living and I was wearing a pantsuit and I think that caught on my heel. Went flying down the staircase. I hit my head and I hit my right leg on this big ceramic pot that I had at the bottom of

the staircase. And I actually didn't break any bones. I mean, people break their necks falling down staircases. I was just in a hurry, not thinking, and my first thought is like, I'm just going to have a really bad bruise on my leg. It's just going to be a really bad bruise. I've got to get to work.

So I went to work. I drove to work. Meanwhile, my leg is swelling. What I was diagnosed with is called acute compartment syndrome, and it actually is often misdiagnosed if you're at the hospital in the initial phases of it because sometimes it takes a while for your leg to actually swell. What happened with me is I eventually passed out from the pain, and I'm waking up after they've performed the first of many surgeries on my leg.

Did you pass out at work? Yeah. So what, did they get an ambulance and take you to the hospital? Yeah, so I ended up in a hospital here in San Francisco. And my leg, I mean, I'm trying to show you here. My leg was probably, I'll show you the photos later today, but it was swollen right out to here, so about four or five inches on each side of my calf muscle.

Wow. And again, it's from blunt force trauma to a limb. And they performed a surgery called a fasciotomy where they cut through the fascia. And I've learned so much through this, but the fascia protects your muscles and it doesn't give. And so the pressure was building up in my legs and the nerves were getting compressed and dying.

So I still have significant nerve damage in my right leg. But when the doctors came into my room after they'd done the first surgery and I have, you know, they've just sliced me on each side of my calf muscle. I have two big gaping holes. And they're telling me, you know, we saved your leg, but we don't know if you'll ever be able to use it again. Wow. And, you know, we all have to.

It's so weird, like it didn't break the bone. It didn't break any bones. So the trauma was so significant, the inflammation was so intense that it damaged all the surrounding areas. Yeah, it just causes the pressure to build up. So it can happen in any of your limbs, but it's from blunt force trauma. So people in car accidents get it. And, I mean, you know, I'm learning as I get older,

we have defining moments in our lives, right? And I really have never forgotten those words. And at that moment when the surgeon said that to me, I knew for whatever reason that there were two choices for me. One was to basically accept that, that all of my mobility, all of that which I took for granted was gone and be essentially disabled. Or I could prove them wrong. And that was what I decided to do. I didn't know how I was going to do it.

How do you think that you were able to make that decision as opposed to sink into a depression or kind of create an identity around being a victim? Yeah, that's an interesting question. I mean, I think just growing up on a farm and knowing that you just have to get stuck in and you just have to get things done. And I was so like horrified that this had happened. It wasn't like, it wasn't like a traumatic, you know, skiing accident or a car accident. It was like,

I was on my way to work and it was just this disbelief that this was my reality um and i like yesterday everything was fine right and my friends call me the sort of the energizer bunny i go and go and go and go and go i don't sit still for very long and i was completely incapacitated um and that was the first of many surgeries that I had. How long ago was this? Coming up on 10 years ago. Yeah. And I, you know, initially I was horrified with the scars.

You know, I look back and I was like, gosh, I was so living such a superficial life then. And I really feel like, you know, now, I mean, at the time I thought it was the worst possible thing that could ever happen to me because it took two years out of my life because it took me that long to walk again um wow so you were you were in a wheelchair and then crutches for no I was on crutches um but they after I transitioned out of crutches and I had multiple surgeries uh later like I have a big skin graft taken from my thigh once the the swelling went down, it took nine months

for the swelling in my leg to go down. So then they're patching up those, you know, the big holes on the side of my leg with the skin from my thigh. Then I had to do physical therapy. I did that full time. And, you know, applying the discipline of having been a ballerina, I applied that to getting better. I mean, they said I was their perfect patient

because I never missed a physical therapy appointment. I think there was one because I was sick. But I just, I gave it everything. I didn't work. That was my job and my job was to fix this, to be healthy and to be the person I was before. It's a beautiful thing when you can look back on something like that and recognize it as an opportunity for growth.

Yes. I'm sure it wasn't fun in the midst of it. And perhaps you weren't able to sort of recognize that at the time. But it's always magical when you can kind of take a 10,000 foot view and look down and say not that you brought that into your life or that you did anything wrong or anything like that but the universe kind of knocks on your door in a way and says yes hey maybe you should look in you know in a little bit of a different direction for your life yes and I really feel like because i am such a focused person in some ways i needed to have my life completely derailed um to go in a

different direction and and sorry to interrupt but at that time you were pursuing the silicon valley dream right were you is that was that the idea or what was going on i mean i you know i had my i i you know graduated i you know i did my undergrad at Berkeley, but I went back and I got my Master's of Science at Berkeley. And I was working at big tech companies and really having money for the first time. And just a really superficial life now that I look back on it but though that those two years when I was rehabilitating my leg and and and my sense of self really um because I don't like to ask for help um and I had to get help for everything um but at the time I thought it was the worst possible thing that could ever happen to me and now I mean I tell anyone that will listen

I'm like that was the best thing that ever happened to me the absolute best thing because it set me on a journey that I could never have dreamed of if you'd asked me 10 years ago if I'd be sitting here talking about my swimming journey or having had the experiences I've had, I would think you were mad that that wasn't, wouldn't be possible. Um, but I learned what I was made of in those two years. Right. And, and the stripping down of your ego and you being compelled to be so humbled to your core. Absolutely. Creates like a fertile ground for rebirth. Absolutely. And it was, it really was a rebirth. And it just, you know, I look back, like I look at my life now and my soul is so rich. And I have this community that is just an amazing group of adventurers that have these sort of double lives.

They work in tech or they work in government and then they swim in cold water for crazy distances in their free time. And it's just the – it's opened up my world of possibility of not only myself but of like the human spirit i have my version of of your story that's very different in certain ways but i think that the arc is very similar you know to because i sit here and i'm like what am i even doing here sitting with you having this conversation you know like i would have never mapped that out for my life and the things that i've done and the stuff that i do and i would imagine the idea that I've done and the stuff that I do.

And I would imagine the idea that you would be like a marathon, you know, open water swimmer, like what? Like you'd probably, I'm sure you had, no, I didn't even know that that was something that existed. Absolutely. So it's so beautiful that, you know, an experience like that could like just sort of reform every aspect of how you live your life and perceive the world. Yeah. And I mean, even just talking to you now, it chokes me up because I don't,

every day for me is a total gift. And, you know, that's why I get up in the morning and I swim, even though, you know, we've had these crazy storms and it's freezing cold and your body and your mind saying, what are you doing? Every time it's doing that, but you just, we only have one life and you never know the direction it's going to take. And then when you find a community of people that nobody's saying, well, why would you do that?

Or that's a silly idea. They say, that's a great idea. Even if it is, you know, this crazy this crazy swim idea with your friends at the tech company might not have said that no they walk wide circles around me even today but it's just um yeah it like my life is so full and it's just through this sport this crazy sport called marathon open water swimming but it's more than that it's full because this sport, this crazy sport called marathon open water swimming. But it's more than that. It's full because you opened your heart

to a different possibility for yourself and you had the courage to pull on that thread and follow it, even though it might've sound insane and to continue to follow it. That's where the work part of it comes in and the courage and the faith. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And really, I think we have it in all of us to pick ourselves up.

And life is this journey where you don't know what's going to happen next. But it's having that ability somehow to really reach deep inside yourself and pull yourself out of a situation um it's easier said than done i know that but um and it's not to say that i didn't go down some deep dark holes in those two years when um you know i i couldn't i still walked with a limp and you know my scars were just so you know know, angry, red, so pronounced. And I was just horrified. But, you know, when I first got in the pool, I mean, that was, you know,

it had been two years of being a patient, really, for two years. And definitely feeling other. I didn't feel myself and having been a ballerina you're acutely aware of when your body is misaligned and when it's not right and that's how i felt every day and i had to wear an ankle foot orthotic it's called an afo had to put that in sneakers so i couldn't wear you know nice fancy heel no and so it was just like my life is oh you know it's just heels. And so it was just like my life is over. You know, it was just when I think back, it's just, oh, my goodness. But I craved a sense of freedom so much that I was willing to put myself in a swimsuit in a pool in front of people because I, you know, I'd learned water safety as a kid in New Zealand.

That's how we sort of grew up and I'd always played in the waves as a kid in the summer. I liked the water, but my swimming style was pretty terrible. Well, what, what got you to the pool in the first place? Like, did somebody say, Hey, let's go swim? Or like what, what was the initial trigger? Well, it was just this frustration of feeling stuck i couldn't you know san francisco is a great walking city and i couldn't even walk up hills i i just i just felt trapped i felt really really trapped and i was looking for freedom and i just subconsciously was drawn to the water. So wait, all right, so that's interesting.

So in kind of a mystical way, it was like pulling you or calling you? Yeah, it was. So it wasn't like some friend dragged you to the pool or anything like that? No. There was just some unconscious tug? Yes, yes. And I guess just to feel weightless, to feel, yeah, just to feel a sense of freedom. And so there's a great outdoor pool here in San Francisco called Golden Gateway. It's right along the Embarcadero.

I used to swim there. Oh, yeah, it's a lovely pool. It's a great place to get a tan and swim. And I just started, I went there by myself and I got in and I remember the first time I got to the pool and I was just like, oh my gosh, everyone's going to be staring at my scars. This is disgusting. This is gross. I just felt just not myself. But I realized that when I got in the pool, you know, you're standing there waist deep and nobody was looking at my scars. They were just looking at me and, you know, I'd swim some laps.

And then somebody said, if you swim 80 laps, that's a mile. I think it was actually incorrect now. Yeah, I think it's 66. Okay, well, I was doing a bit more then. Depending upon how long the pool is, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I decided that I wouldn't get out of the pool until I'd done 80 laps.

The first time? Yes. And that was what I just set my mind to. And so every time I went down there, that was what I did. And I'd just been swimming there for a month and a couple of guys at the pool. First of all, before we even get to that, like just the experience of being in the water. we even get to that like just the experience of being in the water I mean did you have that sensation of like I'm home or this is this is I am getting that sensation of freedom that I was looking for yeah it was it wasn't it didn't feel like home yet um but it was a sense of freedom

and then just it was so good for me mentally because I was just like everybody else. I mean, my stroke was pretty bad, but I was moving across the water just like everybody else. Whereas when I was on land, everything was just clunky. And, you know, I had this AFO, which is a big plastic thing that goes at the back of your calf and slips into your shoe. And it has a little hinge so you can pick up your foot. But in the water, I was just like everybody else. I was just wearing a swimsuit. There was no other extra equipment. So that was really the real...

Like freedom from judgment of others and judgment of self. Yes. Yes. And I think there was more judgment of self right to be honest i think we we always worry about what other people think and they're really not thinking what we're thinking you know but when you're feeling um vulnerable and you're feeling sensitive it can be really overwhelming yeah i think you know i i have i had i had a similar thing in high school. It was emotional. It wasn't physical. But like going to swim practice was safe. Yeah.

You know, and it was free. And underwater, you could unshackle yourself from that internal dialogue. Yes. And the external pressures of the world. Yes. Yes. Yes. It became a sanctuary.

Yeah. Yeah. So then a couple guys come up to you yeah and they're now very good friends of mine and they said to me have you ever thought about swimming in the san francisco bay and i'd only been swimming at the pool for about a month and i was like but i'd been living in the bay area since 1995 and i was like that's ridiculous it's cold and aren't there sharks and all these things were going through my head but it was a bit of a dare and I'll do anything for a dare. You're trying to get recruited into some strange religion yeah the foot soldiers are trying to pull you in yeah some bizarre cult yeah and I didn't know and they and they were kind of cute and I was like wow

you know and I'll I'll challenge guys on a dare you know like I don't know. And they were kind of cute. And I was like, wow. And I'll challenge guys on a dare. I don't know how I'm going to do this, but I'll do it. And so I said, okay, what do I need? And they said, just a swimsuit, cap, and goggles. And when I got there, they gave me one of these old school sort of thermal caps. And I have that experience on video and that was because they thought i was just going to have this like freak out and just be like a total girl and like down at aquatic park yeah and it was in november of 2009 so this is going into winter and it was freezing cold and the water temperature was 50, 54, 55.

And at the time, you know, I'd lost so much conditioning. You know, after I finished college, I was pretty much a gym rat. I'd work out all the time. But because I'd been incapacitated, I'd lost all, you know, definition. I was probably – I was really skinny. I was probably about 120 pounds soaking wet um and i'll show you the video and i'm and i'm on the beach and by comparison now you know when you're when you're ramping up for one of these challenges you get up to like 180

right 195 yeah okay we'll get there but keep. My ballet mistress would be horrified. Yeah. I do remember her saying to us, a moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips with the food. I just thought of that right now. That's healthy. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, and I'm standing on the beach and I have it all. I didn't know at the time was going to be another defining moment for my life. And I'm standing on the beach and I have it all this.

I didn't know at the time was going to be another defining moment for my life. And they're sort of talking me through, you know, and I'm standing there and I'm like, my legs are numb. And they're like, your whole body is going to be numb in about three minutes. And then I was just like, OK, I'm just going to go for it. And I dive in and my stroke, I mean, looking back, it's just my legs are flopping up and it's just, but I got out there in the middle of the cove. Aquatic Park is this wonderful sort of little enclosure.

There's no motorized boats are allowed there. There's like little sailboats are allowed there. People row there and it's a really safe place to swim, but you're in the bay and there's seals out there and seabirds. Right. For people that are listening, it's right at the foot of Ghirardelli Square in San Francisco. And it's kind of there's like piers that jut out or jetties that kind of protect this swimming area. Right. And there's a little clubhouse, the Dolphin Club clubhouse.

We're going to talk about the Dolphin Club. But, yeah. swimming area, right? And there's a little clubhouse, the Dolphin Club clubhouse. We're going to talk about the Dolphin Club. But yeah, and every time you go by there, you'll see some nutcases. And you're like, what are they doing? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm one of those now. But I got out there and I just, I remember just stopping and Jordan, who was swimming next to me, he's like, I've never seen anyone grin ear to ear. Like I was just lit up because I looked out there and I was like, this is exactly what I've been looking for. This is it. And that was a feeling of I'm home.

Wow. It was like my whole body came alive. I just, it was such an electrifying experience to just, I could see new possibilities for myself. Of course, I wouldn't imagine what I've done since then, but it was complete freedom for me. And I could smell the ocean. And it was just this adventure, um, right here in the city. I wasn't in for very long because it was very cold,

but, uh, I've, I've basically been swimming in the bay every day since. That's amazing. Rain or shine. I have gone and swum at aquatic park on maybe a handful of times. I did not have that experience. I enjoyed it. It was cool, but it wasn't like a lights on moment for me. I did not have that experience. I enjoyed it. It was cool, but it wasn't like a lights-on moment for me. I was like, okay, I did it. For me, it was a reboot.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah. And I wish that experience on everybody. Yeah. I try to recruit many people to the bay, and I joke that it's sort of a baptism of the soul because it's just. And what part of that is the cold versus just, you know, maybe other aspects of it? Like what is the fundamental component of the cold water, like the impact of that on that experience?

like the impact of that on that experience? Well, I think it's because every time you get in the water, really, as I said, your mind and your body are saying, this is ridiculous, this is not a good idea, you need to go get warm. But being able to push through that moment when you doubt yourself or you think you're cold, you think you can't do it, to be able to just dive in and push through that,

you literally come out on the other side and you're like, I did that, even though I was cold, even though I didn't get much sleep last night, I did it and I'm out here. And then it really sort of sets up your day because you've really conquered the hardest thing of your day right at the beginning. But it is the sensation of the cold water is very strange.

You know, it affects people differently, but it is certainly refreshing. I mean, your endorphins are fired up. You're clearly awake. And there's sort of this giddiness with being in cold water. And also out there, it sort of connects with a playfulness that I think we forget about as adults. Just to be able to frolic out there. And I'll see seals and sea lions. And, I mean, people think I'm mad because I talk to them like they're dogs.

And they respond to me. They kind of are dogs. They are. They're dog mermaids. They're very dog-like, yeah. Yeah, but to have an interaction where they're just as far away as you are, as close as you are right now to me across this table, where they just look at you and you can see their eyelashes

and you can talk to them and this connection and to and to be you know and swims that i've done since to to be fundamentally accepted in an environment for which really humans shouldn't be in um i think also in my limited experience in cold water, from a mindfulness perspective, it shuts down that part of your brain that kind of runs on automatic in the background all the time. Like it forces you to be very present with yourself because you are in this heightened state. Yes. There's no room for, oh, I got to call that guy or I didn't pay that bill or all that stuff gets crowded out. Yeah. And you're just you have this palpable sense of just being in the moment and being hyper

alive. That's, yeah, that's an excellent observation. That's exactly it. You have to be in the moment and equally nothing else in the world matters, which is wonderful. And I can guarantee whatever is on your mind whatever is troubling you and you know we all have bad days or worried about current events or whatever for a brief moment however long you're in the water none of that matters it's just you in nature um and it's for me here it's right here in the city. Right. So you can have your urban life and you can have this incredibly primal life as well.

It is very, very primal. Your body becomes very in tune with the surroundings. For those of us that are in the water every day, we can pretty much guess the water temperature within half a degree just because of how our body feels. And then your sense of smell and it really is very, very primal. So you're all in from the first moment, right? All in. And I'm all or nothing kind of person

anyways yeah i gather i get that is it obvious right um so then talk to me a little bit about uh the culture of the dolphin club which is the swim club that kind of looms over that aquatic park and the history like it's this legendary club that dates back quite a long time right yeah there's and there's actually two clubs there um side by side i didn't know about that yeah so there's the dolphin club and the south end rowing club they're rivals um but i'm a middle child and i belong to both and i'm all in too so I'm like I want I want all of it and they're quite different clubs everybody is joined together with a love of either being in the water or on the water there's a rowing program for both clubs but they are it's really like a secret society of adventurers. And we all have day jobs.

We're all, you know, working in various aspects in the city and beyond. But when you come there, it doesn't matter. It's a complete cross-section of society, unlike any other club I know of. It doesn't matter how much money you have doesn't matter what color you are doesn't matter what you do for a living that doesn't even come up sounds like aa oh really yeah i think we're all addicts down there it's just a swim addiction it is very much a swim addiction um but you you come together and the bonds that you have with these people are so deep because it really is like this little secret society and everyone watches out for each

other but it's like this every day it's like a little sitcom that's played out and, you know, all ages. The oldest woman at the Dolphin Club that's currently swimming is 80 years old. Her name's Mimi and she gets in the water every day wearing just a regular swimsuit. And I can tell you when you're on the beach, a little cold, wondering whether you can do it because every day that happens. And you see Mimi saunter on in. It's just like, oh, okay. Right. I can't not get in, you know.

Not that I've ever not gotten in. But, you know, and it's just – it's really wonderful to have those connections with older folks as well. And, you know, we have a club swims. We have swims against the other club. And the camaraderie there is just like just fills the walls. It's amazing. And there's this beautiful tradition as well, right?

Like I said, this is not a new organization. No, no. There's people that have been doing it for a very long time. Since 1877. Oh, is it that old? Wow. Yeah. Wow. Oh, is it that old? Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah, yeah. And you look at the pictures on the walls of the swimsuits they used to wear back then. And they only let women into the club in 1977. Oh, really? Yes. Interesting. Yes, yes.

So that caused it. And what would happen if somebody goes down there and has a wetsuit on? Oh, no, it's totally fine. Oh, it is? It is. It is. They won't boot you out of there no but you can't compete in the club swims wearing a wetsuit um but yeah no you you can wear a

wetsuit um but you know people sort of have each other on and you know like oh you don't need that and but we all swim within our own limits um i think everyone should try at least once getting in that order without a wetsuit because it's it's very many years ago i did the alcatraz swim um without a wetsuit and all i remember i remember a couple it was i can't remember it must have been 94 95 something like that and it was not summer you know i don't know, it was, I can't remember, it must have been 94, 95, something like that. And it was not summer, you know, I don't know that it was, maybe it was October or March or something like that. And all I remember about that is when I got into, when I was way in the middle, like about the halfway point, it's not a long swim, it's only like a mile and a half, right?

Yeah. Like halfway in, you realize like oh you're like in a shipping lane like you're not this is not like some pristine lake like it's it's gnarly yeah you know yeah and then my hands and my feet went completely numb so i felt like i just was swimming with fists you know it was exhilarating but i also you know i was like i i don't know if this is for me you know like I did it and I did fine and it was fun. I did it with my friends. And the other thing I remember about that is I don't remember who the race organizer was.

There was a series of these races. But the guy who organized the race had a dog, it was like a lab, I think. And this lab, his favorite thing was to do the alcatraz like he was so excited like his favorite he was you could tell he just couldn't wait to get in the water and the dog dog paddles the whole thing and beats half the field well they do have webbed feet so yeah that's right and four legs so when does. So when does the spark to try to tackle a challenge come in? Is that a gradual progression of doing these sort of competitions between the swim clubs or what happens? Well, it was just, I was just, without knowing, I sort of dropped into this community of amazing people.

dropped into this community of amazing people. And on the wall is a record of all the people who have soloed the English channel. You get your name there and your time that it took you to cross the channel. And I remember I would just marvel at that wall because these are people that I was interacting with on a daily basis, that had won the English channel and I just started to see possibilities and you know I had a lot of encouragement from people who at the club who were just like you know say well I can help you train for that or I can you know I know somebody who's done that but it really really was my first – in the year 2010, I did my first Alcatraz.

That was six months after joining the club. And I did it on my birthday. And I called it the first annual Kiwi Invitational Escape from Alcatraz. I had my New Zealand flag and everything. So it wasn't like a – you just did it. It was an organized swim, yeah. And I can remember stopping mid-channel and looking at Alcatraz and then looking at San Francisco and I was like, I'm doing this.

I'm really swimming from Alcatraz. And what happened for me is I discovered that if I did one thing, well, maybe I can do this next thing. one thing well maybe i can do this next thing and then in early 2011 i was introduced to a group of swimmers called the night train swimmers veto yes veto biala he's a very very good friend and a mentor for me and he actually he was the person who believed in me when nobody believed in me um he invited me to join the team um and he said that i couldn't swim my way out of a paper bag with flippers on and he was totally right but he saw something in me and he invited me what did he see in you he says that he saw tenacity and drive and certainly not swimming. There needed to be a lot of work on that.

But at the time, they were attempting to swim to the Farallon Islands. And now the Farallon Islands are 30 miles off the coast of California here. It's a marine sanctuary, but it's where great white sharks frequent and some of the largest are there and they like to breed there let's just paint the picture you know you're making it sound a little bit more idyllic than i think it is if anybody's been to san francisco or driven across the the golden gate bridge as you look out you know to the ocean side as you're crossing that bridge uh if it's a clear day you can just make out. And they're like these foreboding jutting rocks that stick up out of the ocean

that just look about as treacherous as you can possibly imagine. Like it's out of Lord of the Rings or something like that. It is frightening just to imagine taking a boat out there, let alone swimming, and then understand that it is this incredible uh nature preserve where i mean you know thousands and thousands of sea lions and seals kind of breed there right and as a result of that it is like the red triangle of great white sharks it is it is for me yeah i mean i it's a it's a fantasy world out there for me. And I can explain more.

But it was Vito and the night train swimmers that thought that it was a very good idea to swim to those islands. And they had been attempting to do a relay swim. So with a relay, you have six swimmers and you swim an hour-long shifts until you rotate through until you get to your destination. And Vito's got his boat, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's an expert, you know, captain and he's also a swimmer and among many other things.

But he came up with this idea and there'd been many attempts because it's a treacherous stretch of water, and it's just tricky with the currents, with the winds. There's only a handful of days when it's actually the best time to swim there. So he asked me to accompany them on the boat as support crew, and it was just this wild, wild, wild west out there. And I was just captivated by all of it. And then the last relay, which was actually the successful one, I was invited to be on the team. Someone dropped out.

But that first time they weren't successful. It took four attempts. And I was on the fourth one. I was the only woman on this co-ed team. And I remember when Vito left me the message to tell me that I was on the team, he's like, this is the message you've been waiting for. This is the phone call you've been waiting for. You're on the team.

And I felt like my Christmas had just come early. I was like, I can't believe I'm going to be part of this. Followed quickly by sheer terror? Yes. Or no, you know? Well, also because i wasn't the best swimmer and you know when you're a part of a team you don't want to be that one that lets everyone down so he i feel like he really took a gamble with me but um again he believed in me and i'll never forget that so we were were out there, and David Holscher on our team was the person who actually finished the swim. He had to slap a buoy because you can't touch the land there.

And it was just before the sun was about to set. So you take the boat out to the Farallons and you swim back? No, we swam to the Farallons. You swam to, okay. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it had never been done before. And because it's a marine sanctuary, we hadam to the Far Islands. You swam to, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, it had never been done before. And because it's a marine sanctuary, we had these permits to – another permit to do it again.

And I said to Vito, I said, you know, it would be such a waste to give up that permit. Could I put together the first all-women's team to do that relay? And he's like, sure. You know, he's always up for adventure. So within two weeks, I managed to recruit five other women. I managed to convince them that it was a good idea to swim in shark infested water.

And they are five of the strongest women, bravest women I know. And we completed the relay. And I actually ended up being the last person to get in that water and it was dark and you know you don't want to be the one that lets down the team but that was definitely a moment of truth where you are a mile out from the Farallones you're about to set another record you've got your team they've done all their work and now it's just up to you to do the last leg but the last leg of course being the hardest because not only is it you've been out there so long, but now you're entering the shark-infested part.

And it's dark, and it's dark, and we've got video, and you just see this little blue light on the back of my goggles, and you see the silhouette of the islands, and I watch it from time to time because, you know, you do these things, but it takes a long time to sink in. And, I mean, it was crazy. And, you know, I remember when David Holscher finished the swim and he slapped the buoy in this moment of just thinking I'm going to get eaten

by a shark and the adrenaline is just surging through your body. Like it's an incredible feeling. I decided to kiss the buoy. and then because the water was so treacherous i'm expecting to just be hauled onto the boat and then the boat moves away from me i'm like veto like i'm not a prima donna i'm not high maintenance but i just finished the swim and i need to get on the boat i need to get out of this water because i'm on a ticking time bomb yeah but it was too rough and so i had to actually had to swim to the boat but what is the perimeter around the farallons that's sort of like how far away do you have to be before you're kind of a little bit free and clear of the shark

infestation five miles oh wow it's yeah it's a lot broader yeah that's what they call the the ecosystem yeah yeah and so you know, I did have these experiences. I was like, I just want to do more. I just, that feeling of being out there when you're in water, that's 6,000, 10,000 feet deep.

And you're just this little person on, on the top of the, of the surface of the water. And your mind just goes crazy thinking about what's swimming underneath you. And for me, it's just this wonderland out there. You know, we've gone back there on the weekends just to frolic in the water there. And I'll come back to work and people are like, oh, how was your weekend? I was like, well, you know, just did a little dip at the Farallon, you know, and I do videos and I put music to it and it's

just, but it, um, so I became, I started to have a love affair with those islands and, um, that sort of set, um, a goal for me. What is it about those islands that make it so special? Is it the treachery? Is it, is it the, the it the the the the challenge of of meeting your fear on such a profound level yes yes very much so it it's like being in heaven and talking to the devil at the same time to quote vito he summed it up pretty well like it is it is a wonderland out there. You know, when I've gone out there on the weekends and there's the visibility is incredible,

sort of 50 feet either direction. You've got all these seals and sea lions and they'll come right up to you and they're swimming underneath you and darting underneath you. And you know that you're really not supposed to be there because a shark could come out of nowhere. And it's not like any of us are on sort of this death wish, but you really are.

I think it is tantalizing to be right at that edge. I mean, that is... And super connected. Yes, yes. It's like if I could go to the Farallones every day, I would. It really is just this, like I said, it's a wonderland. And again, to be accepted by the creatures that frequent that water. And I haven't had a shark encounter out there.

You know they're there. You can feel them. I know like when you did your solo swim, you had like a sonic thing on your ankle, right? Like it's some kind of sonar thing that's supposed to repel the sharks yeah it lets off a magnetic wave um so it creates a magnetic field around you whether it works or not i don't know but um most importantly though it doesn't harm the sharks um i feel you know some people have said to me like like, is your boat going to have a shotgun on it? And it's like, no, you know, that is, that's their living room.

Antithetical to the whole idea. Absolutely. I, and, you know, and I do these sort of, I'm more of a spiritual person, but the times I've gone out there, I just sort of say, you know, like, I pray for a safe passage and I'm just passing through. Like, that is their living room and it has to be treated with the utmost respect. Right. If you came in from an aggressive point of view and you did have a gun and you did, you know, all these things, it's almost like the energy that you would be bringing to that area would be very different. It's almost like you would be inviting a problem as opposed to, I mean, what it is really is total surrender. You're like, I'm here. This is what's going to

happen is going to happen and a complete letting go, which is terrifying, but also plays into what you were saying about freedom. It is. It really is. I mean, I, you know, I control what I can control leading up to the swim but there is nothing more exhilarating than jumping off that boat into that water for any of these swims and it is not knowing not knowing and that for me is captivating it it because we live a life on land where we think we know what's going to happen you walk out the door and you're going to walk down the street and you're going to get in your car and you're going to drive a certain, everything seems so prescribed.

Even looking at road signs where it's like, oh, caution, there's a curve ahead. When you're out there, again, it's so primal. And you are at the mercy of Mother Nature. You are at the mercy of whatever could happen there. And it is every time I'm out there, I surrender. And it is so freeing. It's so scary. But it's, I mean, it's everything.

It's just, and you feel like this modern day explorer. Like I feel like an astronaut out there. I'm in an area where humans. Well, in the history of humankind, how many people have actually gotten into the water around the Farallons? Not many people. If you take the night train swimmers out of that equation, maybe a couple. Yeah, I think there's four four um

three men and um myself wow and yeah and i would i would do it again in a heartbeat so you did the relay yeah and then what comes next is the idea of doing the what is it called the seven uh the ocean seven ocean seven so what happened after that was i was like wow i can't believe i've done that what's the next thing i need to do the next adventure and i'd signed up to swim around the island of manhattan in new york in a relay and did that with a team of guys and i'd signed up to swim across the english channel in a relay that all that same year and i was living with a bunch of guys it was basically a frat house but they were all they're all like my buddies and they're adventurers and one of my

roommates had climbed Mount Everest and he'd swum the English Channel and he's sitting on my rug with his dog and we're talking about my getting ready to go to England and he's like you know you're going to England in a couple weeks to do your relay. Like, you're spending all this money. Why don't you just do a solo while you're there? And I was like, that's a great idea. I had no business doing that. Absolutely no business.

When I started to tell people because I was so excited, they were just like, you are absolutely insane. I was so excited. They were just like, you are absolutely insane. And, you know, there's so much work that goes into a solo and a part of me still wanted to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Well, the logistics also, all the permitting and all of that is a major ordeal, right? Yeah, so it all came together, but I was not prepared and I think I wasn't even halfway across, and they pulled me,

and I definitely came back with my tail between my legs. I was very disappointed in myself, but I decided that I would come back there, and I would complete that swim, and I would be as qualified as possible. complete that swim and I would be as qualified as possible. So then I started to think about, okay, what could be my first real solo? And at the time, my grandfather, my maternal grandfather was in ill health and, you know, he really was the proudest Kiwi I've ever known. And I was like, I'm going to swim from the south island to the north island in new zealand across the cook straight and how many miles is that about 17 miles

there's also sharks that frequent there um of course yeah one in six apparently um encounter they use that word a bit loosely but but I made it across. Wait, one in six people that get in the water there encounter a shark. Yes. Okay. Yes, yes. And it's one of the few swims. Great white. Yes, yes.

And it's one of the few swims where you are allowed. So for all of these solo swims, you cannot touch your boat, get on the boat at any time. But with the Farallons and with the Cook Strait, you can get on the boat for 10 minutes i don't know who can get in the water after 10 minutes after seeing a shark but right the option is there for you because they make that exception because of the sharks yeah right yeah yeah so um yeah and that swim uh was an incredible swim for me i I mean, I was on home turf. This was what, like 2010?

This was March of 2012. Okay. Yeah, so 2011 was my relay year. Got it. And then 2012, it was March of 2012. I had dolphins escort me. That was my first experience of that. And they were swimming underneath me, beside me.

I was so close I could almost reach their dorsal fins. But I heard them squeak in the water first. And it was just like, oh, my gosh, the cavalry is here. You know? They're going to carry – these angels are going to escort you. Yeah. And the fact that they knew that I was a friend and not a foe. And I joke now. I'm like, you know, I'm sure they were talking amongst themselves

and being like, George, like, what is this thing in the water? Like, she can't even swim. Like, should we be worried about her? Like, what's she doing? You know, I'm sure they were like talking. But they would squeak and I would squeak back. And so, I mean, really, like, I'm like a 12-year-old girl out there because it's just, I mean, it's so special every time.

But to have these dolphins escort me for about 40, 45 minutes, they were so close to me. And I think they were protecting me. But I didn't see any sharks on my swim. And I finished the swim. I had to go to hospital afterwards. I was a little hypothermic. How cold is that water? It's about, it was about 57, 57 degrees.

That's not too bad. Yeah, yeah. But I was also, you know, I've sort of, I've learned how to put weight on and, you know, with each swim you learn more about how to train. And, you know, I got to show my grandfather the video of me swimming with the dolphins before he passed away. So I'd done that and then I swam the length of Lake Tahoe. And that was an interesting swim because there's nothing quite like training

at sea level for an altitude swim. I was violently ill for most of it yeah um it's no joke at tahoe i've done that trans tahoe relay and you know just without doing any preparation at altitude to go up there you're like whoa yeah yeah yeah but it was a challenge and you know and and this video of me getting out of the water and i'm just in tears because it's just um every time for me there there's this disbelief that really when you put your mind and your body to a goal and then you achieve it it's just you can't even quite comprehend it um and i must say that for each of these swims i've had a team of people escorting me and there's nothing solo about any of these swims right you don't just show up and jump in there's a whole yeah you know yeah ramp up and it's very you know

organized from the person driving the boat to the person you know keeping an eye on you cheering you on like you can't do this alone and that has also been a wonderful um learning for me to be able to ask for help and receive it you know because i wasn't like that before so did lake tahoe and we'd done and we attempted another night train relay down the coast. We were attempting to swim from San Francisco to Santa Barbara. Oh, I remember that. Yeah. And I got stung by jellyfish. So each evening shift of mine, the sun was setting and the moon was rising and you could just see the jellyfish rise to the surface.

And they're called siphonophores. They're actually not the gelatinous ones that we think of with jellyfish. They actually look like little snakes. It was like being tasered for your whole hour and i have a high pain tolerance but um it got to the point where i had difficulty breathing and we got to morrow bay and we had to call a swim right and you can go into anaphylactic shock right yeah it was the right call but i i was i was really devastated because i was the one that you were the one right right and nobody blamed me but i blame myself and and then how could you get star five jellyfish how dare you right and so then people were saying well kim you know you know you

love your swimming but i don't think you can swim in water with jellyfish anymore and i was like I don't think you can swim in water with jellyfish anymore. And I was like, I think I'm going to try and prove you wrong. Because once that happens, you become more susceptible the next time you're attacked, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, well, I'd like to test that theory. And I don't like being told I can't do something. Clearly.

So there's this stretch of water in Hawaii called the Mol the molokai channel from molokai to oahu um tiger sharks portuguese man o'war so you've got a whole menu of right at least it's warm though yes that one's longer though right how far is that about 35 miles and um so the water temperature was just amazing and i got in at night 830 at night and finished almost 20 hours later. I got stung a few times by Portuguese man o' war, and I can remember just trying to scrape off the tentacles off my swimsuit. I had dolphins escort me in the middle of the night and lit up with a bioluminescent glow. And then towards the end, I had humpback whales singing.

And in Hawaii, they call it amakulaula that that's your ancestors speaking to you and i felt that that was my grandfather so but then i because the conditions deteriorated i was supposed to exit at sandy's beach on oahu which freaked me out anyways because i'm afraid of big waves i don't mind them in the ocean but i'm not a surfer. But I got pushed along, and I actually had to climb up a vertical wall called China Walls. And with marathon open water swimming, you have to exit the water unassisted. So if somebody took pity on you and wrapped their arms around you just not knowing, just trying to be helpful, you'd be disqualified.

Right. There's all this. It goes beyond etiquette. These are actual rules and regulations that will certify the accomplishment. And that was something that, you know, the controversy that crept up around Diana Naya swim from Cuba, right? Because she would occasionally hang onto the boat. Yeah.

Yeah. And so for, I follow what I, what we call traditional English Channel marathon swimming rules. So no physical contact with your boat or your crew. No resting on the boat. People say, because you swim through the night, they're like, oh, so did you get on the boat for a nap? No. No wetsuits.

No shark cage. No shark cage. No thermal cap. Has to be a regular latex or silicone cap. You're allowed earplugs. I don't like water in my ears. I don't know if you've seen those videos online where a cat accidentally falls into a bathtub and scrambles to get out. That's me if I get water in my ears.

It's awful. Well, when the water's really cold, it's painful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, with that swim with Molokai, I was like, wow, I've actually done two of the Ocean 7. And I was like, I just got five more to go. How hard can it be?

Is there a – there's no time limit in how long it takes you to do all seven to be – No. Okay. time limit like in how like how long it takes you to do all seven to be no okay and what and what i love also about it is that you know you're not competing with anybody else like sure you you become interested in what other swimmers how long it took them to cross that stretch of water just because it gives you an idea of how long it might take you but there there's no, it's just, that's what I love. It's just you're testing yourself. And that swim was almost 20 hours of nonstop swimming. So when you're swimming for 20 hours, what are the sort of mental tricks that you employ to, you know, remain focused when you start to get tired or you feel like you want to quit?

Yeah, yeah. Or you're going to lose your mind. Yeah, I think all of those things have occurred. But you rely on a crew. And, you know, I pick my crew very very carefully there are people that know me really really well and they're also um i've learned a lot through being on night train swimmers with the way veto puts the teams together because team is everything and it's not just their connection with you as a swimmer but it's their connection with each other because it is a

journey um it's really this odyssey. And so they become very in tune with, you know, if you're struggling. And so they might offer me, we call it a feeding. So every 30 minutes I have a carbohydrate protein drink or some snacks. I experiment with, you know, whole food as well. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Yes, yes. And peaches, like canned peaches.

Oh, my gosh. When you're out there, that is just, I mean, it's like dining at a five-star restaurant when you have something like that. Really easy to digest. Yeah, but it becomes a sensory delight because you're so focused and then you have this thing that just makes everything in your mouth come alive and mentally too, it lifts you up. And what is the carbohydrate protein drink of choice?

Yeah, so I've experimented with a bunch of different ones. I use all Goo products now, like the Goo little gel packs and their energy drink. And then I take a lot of amino acids throughout my swim so i'm becoming more scientific in the past it's been really hit and miss but um at the i always have what i call my bag of tricks and i don't eat junk food but you know i grew up with like candy and that from new ze. And so it's this bag of tricks, which if they know that I'm close to finishing, it's just pump me up with sugar. Give me a Mountain Dew. Right.

Yeah. I mean, for that last leg. You can't do that. If you're taking gels early on, you're going to be in big trouble. Yeah. But those things work. I mean, sugar works. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I have all those sort of feedings and then just passing the time when i'm when i'm really in my groove um i love you know i see the boat i usually swim on the starboard side and i breathe to my left and i love to make eye contact with the captain and then i just watch the crew um the worst thing that can happen is your crew form a huddle

because you know they're thinking about what they're going to do with you. So you also become very devious, well, me at least, when I swam across from Northern Ireland to Scotland. That was the hardest one, right? Yeah, that one I almost died. But I knew I was having trouble breathing. But I knew that if I told my crew I was having trouble breathing, they'd pull me. So I just adjusted my stroke and just took a breath every stroke.

Trying to pull one over on the crew. I know, right? I would not advise that. I know. But, you know, when you can smell Scotland, when you can smell the grass of Scotland, and it's a goal goal and that was my final seven last one yeah and I mean all of us in this sport are a little stubborn um maybe more so than others but when you you it's a goal you've trained for it's like you I mean I end up in hospital

after most of my swims um in America here, I have great health insurance, and they know me on a first-name basis up at CPMC. Don't do this at home, people. And people are just like, why would you do that? But it's just I just want to see what I'm capable of. I want to see how far I can go. And I've had the opportunity to do a lot of that and really like my soul has a lot more wrinkles you know through these experiences so let's go through

the seven you did the the new zealand one yeah cook straight cook straight what are the other ones i did the molokai channel right um then i swam across the strait of gibraltar from spain to africa um that was an amazing experience to see a fisherman on the morocco side and um i just said hello to him and he was just like Yeah. That's pretty rough, right? And it's a big shipping channel. And then I swam across the Catalina Channel, so Catalina to the mainland. Had dolphins escort me. And towards the end, it was like the floodgates just opened. It was just there were thousands of them accompanying me to shore.

And then I was like, okay, I'm ready to do the English Channel. and it was just there were thousands of them accompanying me to shore. And then I was like, okay, I'm ready to do the English Channel because I told myself I was going to go back there as prepared as possible. And that swim was a really fabulous swim for me. I wasn't sick. I felt happy the whole time, and people make fun of me because, I mean, I'm always so happy out there in the water but i again i'm like a 12 year old girl and i'll i'll be swimming along and i'll go woo you know it's just this expression of just joy and i was swimming across the english channel

it was as flat as a lake it was gorgeous day and um my boat captain um he just would stick his head out the window and he'd go, whoo, and he's just like this, you know, he's just like a real burly English guy. And then with that swim, he was actually just visiting here in San Francisco. I've become very good friends with him because, you know, your boat captains are responsible for you and they shepherd you across the sea.

And after I'd done the English Channel, next day I invited him and my crew to go take the ferry across to France and find the spot where I made land. And he said in all his years he'd never had a swimmer invite him to do that. And so we just have this instant bond. But it's just, for me, these are not swims at all. I mean, there's a swimming part of it, but they are, each of them are journeys of the self. And the people that are with you during these journeys are forever,

you know, they forever have a place in your heart and and you learn gratitude um and you learn appreciation but underneath all of this for you is the the current of joy like joy is fueling this for you it's not like you're not coming into this with this hardened like i'm gonna prove that i can do this coming from some kind of unhealthy place. Like you're just, you just love it, right? Like you're, this is what you're supposed to be doing. Right. And when you're doing it, not only do you feel alive, you're completely in your, in your bliss. Yes. And I feel filled with purpose because all of these swims I do for charity. Yes, and I feel filled with purpose because all of these swims I do for charity.

And another great learning that I got from Vito and Night Train Swimmers because we do swims around the world all for charity, and that's what I've incorporated into my solo swims. And so it's really making these swims bigger than about yourself. Sure, you're the one that gets the accolades, but I'm the first to say that I didn't do it alone and I share all of these achievements with my crew. And even the people that, you know, someone at the club or someone here in the city would just say,

like, I read that you're going to go do the swim. Like, good luck. Like, just the fact that people are thinking about it. And then, you know, I have a GPS tracker on the boat and people can track me real time on a Google map. And I've had my colleagues at work on their big monitors like track me and that helps too. You put them up on Strava?

No. You should. You're like, I think you have the KOM for the Farallon swim. We're like, yeah. Nobody's going to challenge that anytime soon yeah yeah so it's just the fact that people are interested as well in a sport that they might not understand they might not connect with like i never used to understand why people climb mountains but now i understand why people climb mountains, but now I understand why people climb mountains. And that's because?

They're journeys. You are pushing the limits of your physical and mental self. And I think also many of us are afraid to do that because a lot of times it's scary and a lot of times it's uncomfortable. It's going to hurt and human nature is to avoid things that could potentially hurt us that could make us cold could make you know make us uncomfortable but when you when you and we all have fears but when you really when you and we all have fears but when you really push through those fears um and again human nature is to is to retreat from fear when you push through there is the sense of self there is a real in my case at least that's where the treasure lies the treasure in life lies right on the other side of where you're most fearful super powerful yeah not only do we sort of recoil from the uncomfortable we're sort of haplessly chasing these emotions that you're experiencing joy gratitude giving back through the charity

that sense of feeling alive we're sort of encouraged to seek those out through material possessions or social status. And that's what is encouraged in our culture and the messages that were sort of met with on every billboard and every television commercial and every magazine. And the truth lies in shucking that aside. Yes. And doing something that scares you. Yeah, absolutely. Whatever that is. And it doesn't have to be, you know, swimming the English Channel. No, no.

You know, and it didn't start that way for you either. It started with you dipping your toe into Aquatic Park that first time. Yeah, yeah. You know, and even getting in that pool, I was most afraid of people looking at my scars. I mean, so silly but but we all have fears and they're different for all of us but I can guarantee that when you pick a fear you know we all have many fears pick a fear and decide to challenge it face on and you get to the other side i i guarantee you will have a transformative experience that will serve you for the rest of your life um because again life is not smooth sailing and i

feel like through these experiences i've been able to equip myself with um skills and lessons and how to deal with certain things um And then also just dealing with people. Yeah, I mean, I walk around every day with a heart that's full and I just want to give back. And I want everybody to feel just a little bit of what I get to feel in Noree Day. I mean, I feel spoiled, spoiled rotten because I am in this world that is right where I am supposed to be and then to be able to share it with people and I love talking to little girls and you just see these sparks of

possibility light up in their head. And, you know, just knowing that we're capable of doing far more than we think we can. And it's just about deciding that you're going to tackle something that might be uncomfortable, that might be a bit scary. How do you wear that mantle as an inspirational woman in a culture in which, you know, in this sort of Kardashian infused culture where the, the, you know, the influences on young women and on girls is coming from that direction, right? Like, you know, I've said this before on the podcast, but this idea that, that, uh, well, there's no,

you know, where are all the inspirational women? Well, there's plenty, you know, there's people like you, there's lots of other people, you know, anonymously doing amazing things. We just don't do a very good job of shining a spotlight on these people and, and sort of elevating them into mainstream consciousness so that their influence can spill down to the younger generation. So how do you sort of you know think about that and carry your advocacy to you know the young the young women that you do encounter yeah and i think the difference for a woman like myself who are trying to show lead by example is that you know we're we're doing this for very different reasons. We're not doing it for fame and fortune.

There's certainly no fortune involved in marathon over water swimming. You don't have Nike calling you, offering you the multi-million dollar endorsement contract? No, but that's the beauty. They should. Yeah, but that's the beauty is that you're driven by it's pure it's pure you're in it for reasons that are meaningful and you know it does upset me to no end um the kardashian culture and idolization of that sort of life. It's very, very sad. And I'm sure, you know, being a young girl is even more difficult than it was when I was growing up. But I just hope that by continuing

to do what I do, that one girl at least sees it and decides that she's going to take a path and push herself in a realm she didn't know she could do, that it's not about fillers in your lips and plastic suits. Yeah, it's not about that. And I know from my past experience before all all this happened to me that i was very superficial and it was about things like that but looking back i was so hollow inside like i had no sense of um philanthropy or helping others and now because i i i do that and I feel drawn to doing that, like I said, my heart is so full every day.

That's not to say that I don't have bad days, stressful days. We all do. But for the most part, I just feel that I know where my life is going. I know why I am here. And if I can just keep doing what I'm doing um and that it inspires you know one girl two girls ten girls um then that's pretty special that is yeah so did we go through all the seven no we didn't we didn't we're still yeah let's pick that up again. Yeah, so there were.

After the English Channel, then what happened? I had two left. So I like to say that I left the best two for last. Sugaru Strait, which is between the northernmost islands of Japan from Honshu to Hokkaido. That's exotic. Yes, and they call that stretch of water the Flying Dragon. That's what the locals call it because the wind whips up there. It's a treacherous stretch of water.

There's sharks there. But I, you know, I left it. I wanted to be as prepared as possible for that swim. And I'd learned Japanese in high school. And I love the culture. I just love the etiquette and the people and everything. the culture i just love the etiquette and the people and everything and so i was um very quickly connected with a number of people there including some colleagues from adobe i work at adobe from their japan office and i'd written a little blog post on our internal newsletter and i said

that this is what i was planning to do and i put a little i spoke in japanese and i said you know at the end sort of ingest anyone interested in a little boat ride i ended up with three colleagues from my adobe office on my crew with my mom so my mom from new zealand she is like my chief crew um member and people often ask her like how can you watch your daughter go through so much pain and suffering and maybe get eaten by a shark, but she knows that, A, I would do it anyways if she wasn't there, but she understands that if something happened to me, that that would be the way I want to go.

And so I had this crew from the Adobe office, and we met the boat captain the night before, and the wind was sort of howling, as it is today, actually, in San Francisco. Yeah, for listeners, you could probably hear the wind going in the backyard. It's classic San Francisco. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just need the fog horn. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. And so, yeah, very similar to this. The wind was still sort of howling,

and the boat captain who I'm meeting for the first time the night before my swim. There's nothing like putting your life in the hands of somebody you've just met. So Vito didn't come to this one. No, no, no. And this was a local fisherman, and he barely spoke any English, but he was just the sweetest man. And I bought him a bottle of whiskey as a sort of a gift. And I said to him, you know, you can't drink this until this one's over. Don't drink this tonight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't worry. We started to talk about logistics, and then he said, he sort of pulled me aside, and he had this sort of twinkle in his eye, and he said, I think the dragon's going to be sleeping tomorrow.

Well, I went back to the hotel with my mom, and the wind just started to die. And when it was time to meet the boat very early that next morning, there wasn't a breath of wind. The dragon was sleeping. And my swim, the handful of early that next morning there wasn't a breath of wind the dragon was sleeping and my swim um some the handful of people that have completed the swim it's taken them people that are faster than me 17 hours that swim took me just over nine hours the conditions were unbelievable um and i got very very lucky because my crew won't experience i mean they were great the great camaraderie and yeah well your colleagues at adobe i don't know what they're

going to be able to do if you get into trouble yeah exactly so that was a bit of a gamble but um you know mother nature was looking out for me and when i finished the swim and i got on the boat uh you know i write about all my swims because I want to remember them. And it was literally minutes after getting on the boat, the wind just started to whip up. And it was just, I just sort of imagined that that was the dragon's tail just kind of like, you know, coming to life. And it was, it was, it was just meant to be. I mean, I, mother nature blessed me that day. The sharks are sleeping. The dolphins are escorting you yeah

and the dragon decides to take a nap yeah so the universe is is definitely talking to you i really feel that something has been watching over me because um you know then the next swim was the north channel from northern ireland to sc Scotland, and that's about 21 miles. The water temperature is 53, 54. And, you know, so for these swims I'm bulking up as well. So people have different theories on how you can kind of protect yourself from the cold. Definitely exposure to cold water helps. You have to just keep getting in the water every day.

But having a little extra weight um i call it to be like a seal you do i mean you don't see any skinny seals out there do you you don't see their hip bones um so i call it my insurance policy and having to shift the mindset uh from being a ballerina has been um has actually been as difficult as i thought i would have thought because when you're out there in the ocean it is life and death and you want to come back alive and you want to complete your swim and um so i for the north For the North Channel, I was up to 185, 190. I had back fat. There's a picture of me getting in the water and I have back fat. Did you just eat everything in sight? Everything.

When I was not sleeping or swimming, I was eating. And I have a video of the night before my north channel swim with my mom and my two crewmates and i'm eating a uh a whole pizza and i'm like you know this is uh this is a marathon event of eating and this is not a glamorous sport this is behind the scenes this is what happens but that swim i was well prepared for the cold i'd bulked up and i'd been swimming consistently in cold water i'd even i lived in a little apartment by the presidio and i had a backyard and i'd ordered a kiddie pool on amazon i would fill it with ice and water and i would sit there in my swimsuit for as long as I could reading magazines.

Like Wim Hof style. Yeah, yeah, he's amazing. And it was very difficult, and I didn't take any warm showers for six months leading up to my swim. So at these clubs here in San Francisco, the Dolphin Club in the south end, when you come out of the water, you have a hot shower, and then you get into a warm sauna. That's the way you warm up. I avoided all of

that but the big risk for that swim were the jellyfish so they have these jellyfish called lion's mane jellyfish and their gelatinous bells are sort of the size of a the tire of a mini cooper and their tentacles go 12 to 15 feet below the surface. I mean, they look beautiful when they're floating by at a distance. And at that point, only 26 people had crossed the North Channel compared to over a thousand with the English Channel. And my captain said to me, if you're stung in the first hour, the chances of you completing the swim are pretty unlikely. I got stung in the first hour. I didn't tell my crew because I was like, I just got to suck it up.

And the pain is, I mean, excruciating. But then it kind of subsides a little bit and, you know, you sort of get in your groove and you've got your endorphins sort of helping take the pain away. But what happened was I got stung hundreds of times it was like swimming through landmines there was a point where my crew would blow a whistle and I would know to stop because there would be a jellyfish in front of me a jellyfish on my right a jellyfish on my left and so they're like kim go back go back kim go left go left go left and this is how they would navigate me across the north channel meanwhile my body is trying to

fight the toxins and um not focusing on keeping me warm so i'm becoming hypothermic uh i had trouble breathing i didn't tell my crew um i finished the swim they hauled me back on the boat i don't remember finishing the swim and um my one of my best friends he was on the crew his name's matt and he had promised that he would shower me with guinness beer when i completed the swim and there's a picture of me and i look like a cadaver like i look dead and um he's smiling as he's like pouring the Guinness beer over me and I warm up uh we get back to Northern Ireland we go back to the bed and breakfast you know when you do these swims it's like coming out of general anesthesia you kind of have to be monitored just you know and you're in pain so like my mum took off my swimsuit she gets me in the shower and the bed and breakfast people

had bought us a bottle of champagne and I'm having a glass of champagne in the shower and it's just hot shower and it's just luxurious. And mom's sitting on the lid of the toilet seat next to me just to keep an eye on me. And then I just become really emotional. So what I've completed, I'd completed my ocean seven. How long was the period of time from the first to the seventh? Two years. Two years. Two years.

And so six people have done it and three women, right? Yep, yep, yep. I'm the sixth person to complete it. And I became really, really emotional as to what I had accomplished. Then I had significant trouble breathing. I was rushed to a respiratory ward, a local hospital there, and then I was there for a few days, and they finally discharged me because I bounced back pretty quickly.

But then they said, what worries us about you is that because you're so fit, you're likely masking symptoms that would be readily apparent in an average person. And that's what happened. On the flight back here, you you know they cleared me to fly i felt like i had broken ribs i was having trouble breathing and um came back to my apartment my mom had to fly on to new zealand and a couple that my good friends they have a key to my place and they let themselves in and they're like what are you doing hadn't slept all night and i'm typing just gobbledygook on my computer and they let themselves in, and they're like, what are you doing? Hadn't slept all night, and I'm typing just gobbledygook on my computer.

And they're like, we need to take you to the hospital. So then I go back up to my friends at CPMC here, and I'm in their cardiac ward for a week. I had fluid both my lungs, around my heart. It was pulmonary edema from jellyfish toxicity. Then everyone was like, your swimming's over like how many days after the swim was that about a week wow yeah about a week it just everything like my body was able to kind of keep things at bay for longer than a normal person and um that was then I spent a month in my apartment, basically bedridden. I didn't work.

And people were like, wow, you know, you're done. And is Adobe like – like they seem like they're really supportive. Oh, they're fabulous. Are they like, okay, Cam, time to come back to work. Like we're totally into the fact that you're doing all this stuff but like you still have to like i know i know no they have been my cheerleaders which has been really special um and and i've made a point of only using my vacation time for these swims um but that last swim i had a medical vacation i guess but but yeah everyone was like, well, you know,

you should probably take it easy. I think you're done with cold water and swims. But there was one swim that I wanted to do, and I wanted to do that when I fell in love with those Farallon Islands. And I wanted to be the first woman to swim from the Farallon Islands. And not sort of like in a competitive way, but more because like those are my islands. Like that's my spiritual place and I wanted that for me. And that's what I set out to do.

Mm-hmm. i set out to do so how long after the bedridden uh jellyfish shock experience before the farallon swim 11 months yeah yeah and i got a clean bill of health um and i trained you know and with doing these swims like you you're training sort of you know benefits the next swim and and so on and um but that swim you know as i'm talking to you i'm looking at the golden gate bridge from my window right over there for the farallon swim did you take the boat out to the farallons and swim back right so that was the difference yeah and and i read somewhere like this this moment of like that that terrifying moment of when you you're sort of standing at the edge of the boat and you're going to slip into that dark water and the mystery that

that holds like oh not knowing what's right underneath your feet i mean i could have easily have slipped into the mouth of a great white shark i mean mean, it was pitch black. It was 11.15 at night. And to give you some context, just 10 days before, my training partner, who's actually an Aussie, so we have this Aussie-Kiwi rivalry, his name's Simon Dominguez, very good friend of mine, and he had been attempting to solo the Farallones, but in a direction nobody had done before, which is from the gate to the islands. And it's just, you know, the tides are different.

Both directions are tricky, but, you know, you're also going into that ecosystem when you're tired. And for him, he was dripping blood from his neck because the salt water can become so abrasive when you turn your head and you've got the hairs on your back. He was dripping blood. His wonderful wife Sally was on the boat and one of his daughters, and they spotted a shark.

He ended up getting circled by a great white shark, and they pulled him onto the boat, and he was three miles from finishing. Oh, my God. Three miles. Yeah, but who cares i know i know yeah yeah and and you know and i think he's you know he came to terms with that pretty quickly like he has his life but that was sort of the the backdrop for my swim so people were trying to convince me do not do the swim the sharks are back earlier this year

the time of year was not great for this right no no but you know i when i'm locked into something like i'm gonna do it and there what surprised me looking back there wasn't a moment of oh yeah you know maybe i should just yeah not do it at all, which is a little bit scary. I was committed to it. So that was why the sharks were firmly on my mind. And that morning there'd been a seal with his head bitten off in that cove. So there'd been a predation there that morning. But, yeah, I'm on the back of the boat about to slip into that water

and my mum, she's so sweet and funny. You know, the tension on the boat was just palpable, you know. And she sort of pops her head over and she's like, well, hurry up then. Get in the water. And I'm like, mom. Like just stripping away. Like, yeah, come on. Yeah.

I'm like, mom, I'm just having a moment. But she was just that's great that she comes out and is there for you and she's amazing yeah she's 66 years old and she's got all the gear the warm because you have to be warm and she is out there on the boat watching me the whole time and cheering me on. And I mean, she loves adventure too. And so she's my main crew person. But, and that swim was just, I had swimmers escort me. So after three hours, you're allowed to have a swimmer join you for an hour, but they have to swim behind you.

So you can't be accused of drafting off of them. hour but they have to swim behind you so you can't be accused of drafting off of them and so i just the team was just an amazing group they have a special place in my heart forever and you know coming underneath that gone get bridge um i will never forget and i'm in tears so after every swim i've cried and um i think it's a video of that of you yeah yeah yeah and it's not sadness it's just like like i did that like i really did it and it still makes me teary-eyed today because you know that i could see the pheromonesones this weekend because it was so clear. And, I mean, it's madness. I mean, it's pure madness. But we're capable of so much more than we think we are.

And, you know, came back to shore to dock the boat. There was meteor everywhere. But I'd vomited during the swim. And, you know, all I could think of was oh my gosh I've just chummed the water the sharks know I'm here now and I got on land and then I was sick again and so they decided to I convinced the Tiburon fire department to drive me back to CPMC from Tiburon but so my whole crew was like well you know you know, she's going to be admitted. She'll be there for two or three days, so we'll go see her tomorrow.

All I needed was four bags of IV fluids, and then they discharged me at midnight. And, you know, all I was wearing was my swimsuit that's covered in lanolin because it helps protect against chafing. My hair is all just disheveled. Basically cover your whole body in like crisco oil essentially yeah yeah it's a real sexy sport and there was that great picture in the new york times you covered in like not there wasn't one you know square inch of skin showing your whole face is covered in it and everything yeah that was zinc oxide to protect from the sun and and uh yeah so who would have thought my swimsuit glamour shot would be york times um not exactly um sports illustrated but um you know and and you know you're you just

look disheveled you look like you're either um gone on some sort of bender with illegal drugs and you look like you haven't slept for a long time, which you haven't. So it's not a good look. They let me out of the hospital and they put me in a taxi and I sat on the step outside my apartment building and this is a street that's frequented by people going to bars and everything. So I thought, well, I'll just wait there because my mom, she had the key, and she's tucked up here in my bed because she's like, well,

she's going to be admitted to hospital. I'll catch up with her tomorrow. It's just normal, yeah. And so I had to wait for a drunk couple to come into my building, and I think they were just like, you live here? And I'm like, yeah, no, I live here. my building and I think they were just like you live here and I'm like yeah no I live here and um yeah and then it was just I mean still you know but then what also happens after these swims um it's kind of this after drop you know you you you're striving for something and all your focus is on it. And there's a couple of days of you're still in sort of this fog of

disbelief of joy. And then there's a, there's a drop like that, that sort of depressive state that comes in the aftermath like that vacuum because there's a vacuum right you don't have that goal anymore yeah and for me i found that it becomes very lonely because when you are out there in the ocean you are dealing with life or death and not many people have experienced that um and probably wouldn't recommend it but you're looking because you've connected it with life at such a primal level it makes it more difficult to connect with people who haven't and it's not to put me on a pedestal by any means

it's more that i have had experiences that few people have had and you you want to connect with people at that level um so that's that's always been a challenge official interactions become less and less yeah tolerable yes yes yes so it's just there's so many learnings and it's you know and even when i do sort of go off this drop um afterwards it's sort of i reassure myself that this is this is part of the journey and um and to be able to just feel those feelings of um those feelings of um you kind of feel like your your anchor is loose and you don't know instead of so do you feel that urge or that pull to then set a big goal once again to fill that vacuum yes yes and i haven't i haven't completely settled on my next goal, which is frustrating for me because... But I think there's a teachable moment in that too.

Because how do you find a way to experience gratitude and joy and feel fulfilled without having to live so extreme? You know what I mean? Because it's not... So maybe there's something there for you to learn right because it's not um i can't do this forever and it's you know and it's the the likelihood of it not ending well is it gets higher and higher well i think it requires you to examine it and try to parse what aspect of it is unhealthy versus healthy, right? Because there's definitely that, you know, as somebody who's prone to extremes myself,

like you can have an unhealthy relationship with that, right? Yes, yes. And you will be championed for doing it and you will garner self-esteem and all these positive benefits of it. But on some level, there's that tinge you know that light dusting of sort of of maybe an inappropriate relationship with it right and so absolutely absolutely how do you find a new path as you get older right right because yeah absolutely because when you know that you are sort of an all-or-

nothing person and you give these adventures everything like you know that you are sort of an all-or-nothing person and you give these adventures everything. Like, you know, when I train for them, nobody's telling me, oh, you've got to wake up at four. You're accountable for yourself. But I do everything that I possibly can because I want to know that at the end of the day, because Mother Nature is always the boss, but at the end of the day, I've controlled what I can control

and that I can tell myself that I gave it everything because I would feel disappointed in myself if I didn't give it everything. So there's just so many lessons and learnings and it's a strange sport. learnings and it's a strange sport but you have a gift now which is these experiences and what you've learned from them yeah and a platform and a capacity to now deliver that message in service to other people yes right and i think you can find a lot of that this has been my experience you can find a lot of that this has been my experience you can find a lot of that contentment um in the giving back yeah you know like that can fill the

vacuum in a healthy way yeah yeah and that's why i love i mean i'm a talker so i know you get out you do you do a lot of public speaking and i? And I love it. I just love it because I want people to realize, like I've said, that you're capable of doing far more than you think you can. Sure, I've done these swims that are extreme, and that doesn't mean that you have to do them, but it's just motivating someone to think of their life differently and to see possibilities. And to break the chains of social expectations,

to give yourself permission to explore an interior and exterior life that lives outside of kind of what you're quote-unquote supposed to do or what somebody else thinks that you should do. Right, right, right, because our lives are pretty prescribed. And to be able to step out of that. And you might be surprised what you learn about yourself and equally the people that come into your life. I mean, I feel like I just live in this little bubble and all these amazing people who I admire and I look up to and um and they're just ordinary

people we're just ordinary people I mean we go to work every day we have relationships we you know but we're able to push ourselves um and learn more about ourselves like i said my soul has a few more wrinkles with every one of these swims and my heart is so incredibly rich how would you articulate uh your relationship with fear and overcoming fear fear is a motivator for me. If I am afraid of something, I know I have to do it. Doesn't make it easy, and it's still scary. But I know, as I said earlier,

that I know from experience now that the treasure in life lies exactly right over the other side of where you are most fearful and where you're most uncomfortable. And that's magic. When you can experience it for yourself, it's magic. And so for me, fear is a motivating factor for me me i think that's a beautiful place to end it but i do want to ask you one more question yes for somebody who's listening to the podcast who's maybe feeling stuck in the rut of their own experience and who has struggled with trying to see their way through to a more, you know, vibrant, fully actualized way of living, or somebody who maybe is, is sort of comfortably residing in that

self-imposed prison of fear. Uh, you know, what are, what are some steps that people could take to kind of, uh of cut that chain and become more fully expressed? Yeah, that's a great, great question. I would say that because for me, doing these things that I'm fearful of, I haven't done it alone at all. I think it's about picking an area that is scary to you and finding a community that partakes in whatever that activity is, right?

Because when you surround yourself, it's about surrounding yourself with people that encourage it and don't, you don't want somebody to say, well, that's really scary, like you probably shouldn't be doing that. Like, you know, surround – find the people, find the people that are doing what you want to do that is scary to you. Like I'm terrified of big waves on the beach, terrified. My friends make fun of me.

I'm like, how big are the waves? They're like double over ankle. I'm like, what? That's too big you know um and i try to surround myself with people that i i try and i'm trying to get over that fear by getting back into that water but the key is that don't try to do this alone because it is about community it's about camaraderie and it's about finding those people who are going to say why not that's a great idea and trusting your instinct right yes whatever that little tickle on the back of your mind is that's bugging you to go try something new because it's there for

a reason it's there for a reason and knowing that you know what as far as we know we've only got one shot at this life and um to put it bluntly like you just got to suck the marrow out of it because it's all we have and you know tomorrow is not guaranteed for any of us all we have is right now and i think it's up to all of us we owe it to each of ourselves to be the best version of ourselves. And I can guarantee when you face your fears and you break through those fears, you will get closer to being the best you can ever be. Boom. We did it.

That was so awesome. Oh, thank you. That was fantastic. Thank you for listening. I told you I was a talker. No, it was great. You're, you are an inspiration. We need more powerful women like yourself. And I just applaud all the things that you have done, but more importantly, the way that you articulate them. You know, I think, I think people are going to be really inspired by this and your message is super powerful so thank you oh thank you sharing it thank you thank you cool so if you want to connect with kim the best way to do that is you can go to

kim swims.com that's your website yep uh at kimberly swims on twitter yep Yeah. Yeah. Spell the Queens way. K I M B E R L E Y. Kimberly swims. And also on Instagram. Yes. I'm part of the call and also, uh, on Instagram, Kimberly swims.

And you have any upcoming like speaking engagements or anything like that? I guess on your website probably. Yeah. I'm still trying to get those locked down for the year. Um, and then I'm also thinking about what my next adventure is and I can't wait to share that with everybody well when you figure that out come back and talk to me about it i will all right i will thanks thanks so much awesome peace i don't know, you guys.

I don't think it gets much better than that. Kim is just amazing. She is so well-spoken, so articulate. Her story is just unbelievably captivating and inspiring. And my hope is that she has not only inspired you to do more, but that she has triggered something in you to help you rethink, reframe how we perceive our lives, our paths, our trajectories, our limitations, and our collective potential. Again, if you're digging on Kim, you can find out more about her at KimSwims.com. Also, I wanted to point out that there is this wonderful documentary

about Kim that highlights her Farallon swim. It's aptly titled Kim Swims. It was directed and produced by Kate Weber, who I also would like to thank for the photos of Kim that we used in this episode. And you could find that documentary and watch it and learn more

at kimswimsfilm.com, kimswimsfilm.com. As always, these links can be found in the show notes on the episode page at richfilm.com, kimswimsfilm.com. As always, these links can be found in the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com where you will find tons of additional articles and resources all relevant to today's conversation. If you would like to receive a free short weekly email from me,

I send something out every week, every Thursday called Roll Call. It's basically five or six interesting things that I stumbled across over the something out every week, every Thursday called roll call. It's basically five or six interesting things that I stumbled across over the course of the week, a book I'm reading, an article I read, a podcast I listened to, a documentary I watched, a product that has enriched my life somehow. And that's it. Often it's things I don't share on social media. There's no spam. There's no affiliate links. I'm not trying to make any money off this. I'm just trying to cultivate community and kind of connect with you guys more deeply on subject matters relevant to

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that subscribe button if you haven't done so already keep using that amazon banner ad at richroll.com that does help us out a ton and mad love and mucho respect for everybody who has gone the extra mile to support my work on patreon that just just warms my heart. Every time I get an email indicating that somebody is supporting what I pour my heart and soul into every week and doing it by reaching into their pocketbook, it just blows my mind. And I just, I can't thank you enough for that vote of confidence and that level of support means the world to me. If you would like signed copies of our books, Finding ultra the plant power way, we've got cool t-shirts, got tech teas, all kinds of cool, sweet swag and merch. Uh, you can find all of that on my website, ritual.com.

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