The Rich Roll Podcast - Lewis Howes: The Myth of Masculinity, The Power of Vulnerability & What It Means To Be Great

Episode Date: October 29, 2015

This week I celebrate my friend and fellow podcaster Lewis Howes, host of The School of Greatness. I met Lewis a couple years ago when we were both newbie podcasters. He did my show. I did his show. Friendship ensued. A former professional football player and team handball Olympic hopeful who bottomed out before blossoming into a successful online entrepreneur, Lewis defies the stereotype that typically accompanies most successful alpha males. With a glint in his eye, Lewis is warm, incredibly giving, and a stellar example of what life can be like when your heart is open — gratitude in motion. After an injury prematurely ended his football career, Lewis was depressed, aimless and broke. Yearning for inspiration as he convalesced on his sister's couch, he arrived at a question: What kind of life do I want to lead? Then he got to work. He sought out mentors — people thriving on their own terms. Applying the wisdom of those he respected, he began to create a vision for himself. He learned how to turn adversity into advantage. He cultivated a champion's mind-set. He hustled. He mastered his body. He practiced positive habits like appreciation, gratitude and mindfulness. He built a winning team. And perhaps most importantly, he learned how to be of service to others. It worked. Living exactly the life he envisioned for himself daydreaming on his sister's couch in Ohio, today Lewis is a successful business coach, online entrepreneur, public speaker, podcast host, and now author. Leveraging his personal experience and the wisdom of his mentors and inspiring podcast guests — Lewis has culled the best of what he has learned in a new book that came out just yesterday appropriately titled The School of Greatness: A Real World Guide To Living Bigger, Loving Deeper, And Leaving A Legacy*. A primer on how to manifest your own internal greatness, it’s a fun, easy and informative read that not only inspires but provides actionable lessons and practical exercises aimed at helping you create vision and reach your ultimate potential. On a personal note, I am deeply honored that Lewis includes my story in his book. I’m essentially the primary subject of chapter 5 entitled Master Your Body. I love this guy. His positivity and integrity is infectious. It is my privilege to support him and his new book by sharing his message with you today. Enjoy! Rich

The more you give and help others and serve other people, the more you're going to get what you want. That's fellow podcaster and lifestyle entrepreneur, Lewis Howes, and this is episode 189 of The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. with the outliers, the big forward thinkers, people that are moving mountains, who are advocating for positive paradigm-breaking culture change across all categories of health, fitness, entrepreneurship, sustainability, basically a wide variety of topics and personalities, people that just inspire me, that educate me, that captivate me, whose message I want

to help share. And I do this to help all of us, myself included, of course, unlock and unleash our best, most authentic selves, which I think we all owe to ourselves, do we not? So thanks so much for subscribing to the show, you guys. I really appreciate it. I appreciate everybody who has given us a review on iTunes. If you haven't done that, take a moment to do so. We greatly appreciate it.

It helps us out a lot. And you know what really helps us out a lot? When you guys use the Amazon banner ad at richworld.com for all your Amazon purchases. There's a banner ad right there on the main podcast page. We have one for the US, one for the UK. You click on it, it takes you over to Amazon, you buy whatever you're going to buy, and it doesn't cost you anything extra. Amazon kicks out some loose commission change, and it's really just a great free way to support the mission, to put your stamp of approval on what we're doing over here. If you listen to the show, then you know that the other day I had Gabor Mate on the show, and I traveled all the way to Vancouver just to interview him.

And that trip was made possible basically because of your support, because of you guys using the Amazon banner ad. And I trip was made possible basically because of your support, because of you guys using the Amazon banner ad. And I really appreciate it. And I want to be able to continue to do that. And the way that I can do that is by you guys helping me out by doing your Amazon shopping via therichroll.com podcast banner ad. So thank you so much. It really does help us out a lot. So today on the show, it's all about my friend Lewis Howes, fellow podcaster, host of the School of Greatness podcast, probably some overlap in our audiences. There's probably some people that listen to me that also listen to his show. And he's got a new book that came out this week titled The

School of Greatness, of course. And we're going to get into all of that in a minute, but first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because, unfortunately,

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Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. All right, today's show. So, Lewis Howes. Lewis is a guy I met early in my podcast career. He came on the show on episode 23. We did each other's programs. We were both pretty new to the podcasting world at the time. I think I started maybe a couple months before him. And for more on his basic background and life story, you might want to check out that episode. Again, it's episode 23. We kind of go into his whole origin story, so to speak. Anyway,

I immediately liked the guy. He's incredibly warm and giving and grounded. He's happy. He exudes gratitude. And he's got this little spark or glimmer in his eye. And we immediately became friends. And we stayed in touch. And we've been a source of mutual support for each other throughout our podcast careers and experience. He calls himself a lifestyle entrepreneur. I know that's kind of a weird word. I mean, what does that really mean exactly? I think people throw around these kind of titles for what they do very cavalierly, but I would say that Lewis really is that. Quickly to kind of recap his background, after an injury ended his career in football, he was aimless for some time and he was seeking for inspiration while he was kind of camping out

on his sister's couch in Ohio. And he began to seek out mentors. And with each mentor that came into his life who kind of provided him with some wisdom and some tools, he started applying this knowledge base that came from these people that he respected and the football coaches that he'd had over the years and ultimately ended up building a very successful online business, working today as a business coach, a speaker, a podcast host, and now an author. He shares much of what he has learned and continues to learn through his podcast, which, much like mine, although perhaps a little bit more entrepreneurship-focused, is an interview-based show where he probes the minds of all kinds of people and experts, basically people that have inspired him in various ways. And now,

he has taken the best of what he has learned on his journey and leveraging the wisdom of his podcast guests, has put together all of it in a new book that came out this week called The School of Greatness. In fact, as I'm sitting here recording this, it is Tuesday, October 27th. Today is the day that it came out, which is very exciting for him. Very exciting for him. And I'm excited for him. The book is basically a primer on how to cultivate and better manifest your own internal greatness. And on a personal note, I'm very honored that he actually included

me in his book. I'm essentially the primary subject of chapter five, which is entitled Master Your Body. So that's super cool, right? It's pretty touching that he would include me so voluminously in this book that I think you're probably going to start seeing everywhere in airports and Barnes and Noble, wherever you turn, because he's quite the marketer. And I think it's going to be a media explosion of Lewis over the next couple of weeks. In any event, the book is a fun, easy, and informative read that not only inspires, but it also provides some great practical tools and actionable lessons and exercises and resources to really help you reach your potential, to create vision, and to use dedication, mindfulness, and perhaps even more importantly, joy, gratitude, and love to

reach these goals. But more than all of that is really just Lewis himself. And contrary to kind of the stereotypical type A entrepreneur, football player type guy, Lewis is just incredibly warm and giving. And with me, he's always been quick with encouragement, support, and honesty, and he's a guy with quite a bit of integrity. So I'm proud and honored and excited to share this conversation with him, with you guys today. So let's dive in. Let's audit a class with Professor Lewis Howes of the School of Greatness, and I hope you enjoy it. And I hope you enjoy it. Back together again. Yes.

Good to see you, man. Good to see you. I was reflecting on the history of our relationship. We first met when we were both newbie podcasters. Yeah, where did we first meet? What was the first meeting? There was another podcaster out there that introduced us, I think, online. Who was that? I'm trying to remember.

A guy from Canada. What's his name? Now I feel terrible that I can't remember his name. Amir? No, not Amir. I think we were introduced via email. I think you had done this guy's show, and he had emailed me and said, Another podcaster, huh?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should meet this guy. Mark Fitt? Now I feel like we need to stop because he's gonna listen to this wow i can't remember this we'll have to check our email inbox yeah yeah no it and he was like check this guy out and he's in la um so we hooked up and then uh i think we both maybe had had i don't know 20 episodes in the camp i think I started a little bit before you, but not that long. Like now looking back, it's like we basically started at the same time. But then it was like four months before.

Yeah, yeah. I was like, man, your numbers are crazy. And you came on my show. I did your show, Early Days. And that sparked a friendship. And then you recently had me on again and now i'm having you on again man so it's good to see you good to see you i appreciate it it's always a pleasure to come over and hang out with you um and i just uh i wanted to say i

really enjoyed your episode with casey neistat that you just put on i thought you did a really good job with that thanks for the introduction yeah he's a he's a super cool guy very cool guy hope your listeners uh enjoyed that um and we have so many things to talk about i want to talk about podcasting of course i want to talk about the new book the school of greatness um before we get into the book though i thought it would be cool to kind of you know i'm interested because like i do what you do sort of like i want to i want to understand i want to talk a little bit about like you know what your experience has been uh over the course of the last couple years of

doing this podcast like it's been quite a journey for you it's been amazing man I mean it's uh it started off as just like a hobby because I was I moved to LA for a girl that didn't work out and I remember being like upset I wanted to move back to New York but I was like let me just stick it out and see what happens. And I remember asking Derek Halpern and Pat Flynn and a few other people. I was like, what are the biggest traffic generators and lead generators for you in your business right now? And Pat and Derek had said their podcasts were just taking off. And the amount of engagement they were getting and the opt-ins.

I was like, I'm in transition. I sold a company. I'm single. I'm in this new city. And I realized that everyone is stuck in traffic in LA for hours. And I was like, I think I could do this. If these guys can do it, I could do it. So it started off as a hobby once a week. And within the first month or two, people just started really connecting with it. And they resonated and sent me long emails about how it's like changing the way they think and i was like maybe there's something here so i committed that first year to one episode a week because i think that was just what people were doing

they're like oh you got to be consistent once a week so i did that then people were like we want more you know we listen to it on mondays and then we got to listen to something else for the next six days i said okay i'll do twice a week the second year and I did that and that was a lot. Two interviews a week is a lot. Yeah, I just started doing two a week maybe three or four months ago.

It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. I don't know how some of these guys. I have some sustainability questions about it. Because you want to be, you want to have high quality,

you want to be able to be present, great production value. And you don't want to just get anyone on. You want to have great guests. You want to be able to be present, great production value. And you don't want to just get anyone on. You want to have great guests. Yeah, once you set the bar at a certain place, like finding people to come on, once the show reaches a certain audience level,

then getting people to come on is not a problem. But getting the right people, the people that are going to keep the bar at the level that you want to keep it, becomes a thing that's always like you always got to chase that. Exactly. Yeah. So I did it twice a week the second year and then people were like, we want more.

And I was like, I don't know how much more I can give you right now. It's expensive. I started to do some video stuff. And so I was like, okay, I'll do it three times a week. I'll do two fuller episodes on Mondays and Wednesdays and on Friday I'll do like a five minute inspirational message and I had no clue how those would do but now someone tweeted me this morning saying

I wake up on Fridays for Lewis Howes' five minute Friday episodes like that's what I wake up for I was like okay cool they don't get as much as the fuller length ones but they do pretty well and they inspire people and that's what I said three a week man so how many you've get as much as the fuller length ones, but they do pretty well and they inspire people. Right, three a week, man. So how many you've got?

You're in the 200s now on episodes, right? 222 as of the time we're doing this. Wow. So I started before you, but I'm on like 173 or something like that. Yeah, man. That's a lot, man. We'll see how I can sustain it. It's interesting because I'm in the middle

of this book launch right now. So I'm doing so many other people's podcasts, and I'm doing this whole virtual summit, which is 30 interviews that are a lot of energy to prepare and interview people and be present. And then I'm doing three episodes a week for my own show, so it's just nonstop interviews right now. It's crazy.

It's a lot of fun, but I'm going to be excited when the book launch is over. Because it's like to get back to normal schedule. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot of energy. Like I can't do more than one podcast interview a day. Like I'm drained. To hold your attention, to be present, to listen, to be engaged. It's a lot of energy output and then to go back

and then you got to get it up online and edit it you know it's a lot of things so it's nuts um how is the video aspect of it working out for you because there's a lot of people you know telling me like why aren't you doing video you should do video you should do video actually it's been uh it's a lot more money i mean here's the thing jonathan fields who i think you know as well you've had him on your show, I think, you know, he did a video show for a while, a year or two,

and it was just like a lot of money, a lot of energy, and he realized he switched to just audio, and he's getting more downloads and better engagement, I think, now. So it's kind of like,

it's tough to solidify and see if like that's really going to be a difference maker for you. I started doing video when I had Tony Robbins on. I had this interview and I was like, I just have to have a video crew there. So I put it on YouTube and the response went through the roof. And I was like, okay, well, I'll do video just for bigger guests.

If I get some bigger celebs, I feel like I have to have video to add more value to my credibility, my brand, to create content on my youtube channel to use for instagram and just like to use on facebook as well because facebook native video is blowing up right so i was like i can use it for all these different things and it's proven to be like beneficial very beneficial but just sometimes the videos get like 2 000 views and you're like okay was that worth spending 500 bucks and the whole, the whole setup to do that? Yeah. It's an interesting, um, equation to solve. And we were talking a little bit about this before the podcast began, but you know, kind of when you look at, at like what Casey

Neistat's doing and of course, you know, his videos are, are, you know, unparalleled in their quality. Um, but the level of engagement that you can get when you really hit a chord on video doesn't compare to audio you know there's a connection uh that people can make to the moving image that uh that that that maybe is a little bit more difficult when it's just audio yes it becomes a whole different thing the challenge is though people don't have an you know 30 to 60 minutes to listen watch a video yeah very few people can focus for that long so the audio is great because people listen to us in the car when they're working out, when they're cooking food. So that's the thing that's cool about audio.

I think that's different and has an advantage over video. Unless you're doing like little five minute segments on video like Casey does, it's tough to stay focused for an hour. Right. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. I'm, you know, I'm thinking about like.

But then Joe Rogan does it too for three hours and people watch it. So I don't understand. You know, that's great. I know. That's amazing. Right. Yeah, I agree with that. You know, I'm thinking about like... But then Joe Rogan does it too for three hours and people watch it. So I don't understand. You know, it just depends. I know, that's amazing, right? And it's not like a high quality video. It's like a live stream, like, you know, sort of low resolution thing.

And the fact that people watch that is amazing, but they do. So, you know, we're all just learning. So, you know, in the kind of vein of learning, like what, you know, what has the podcast done for you? I mean, outside of like marketing and all, you know, whatever, building a brand, like just interpersonally, like the experience of having the opportunity to sit down with all the people that inspire you know, I find myself in and I know you do to be able to pick up the phone and call somebody that you think is super cool and hoodwink them into sitting down with you and talking to you and answering all your questions. And then becoming friends with them later. Yeah. It's really an amazing thing that has enriched my life in ways that I can't even

begin to articulate. So I'm interested in how that's been for you. It's been the best relationship builder ever because you're getting people on, you're allowing them to share what matters most to them, and then you're promoting that message to the world. I don't know if there's a better gift you can give someone, especially if you have a platform. And if you can help them with, you know, if they have a book or a movie coming out or whatever it is, and you can help them with their goals as well. It's like the greatest relationship builder. The key to success in life is relationships. goals as well. It's like the greatest relationship builder. The key to success in life is relationships.

So we're doing something really powerful to add value to other people. And the things that come from it, the intangibles, it's like you never expect some of these things. Like I had a guy on, I was telling you a few weeks ago, and then he was just like, you know, he sold a company for $800 million. And he was just like, hey sold a company for $800 million. And he was just like, hey, how can I help you? I was like, well, I've got a book coming out. Is there any way you can buy some copies in bulk? And he was like, sure, let me buy 500 copies and I'll give them all to charity. I was like, awesome.

It's like you just never know what's going to happen from the relationship. Right, right, right. Yeah, and I think relationships are at the core of kind of who you are and what you're about. I mean, you're very much someone that Malcolm Gladwell would call a connector. Yeah, yeah. That's my skill. And I've been able to notice how you kind of manage your relationships just based on our relationship and mutual friends that we have and how you kind of treat and really cherish those relationships. And I think it brings up something really interesting to me to talk about that maybe, you know, some of the people that follow you might not even know, which is

you really approach your friendships from a place of service and giving, you know. And I think, you know, just with respect to like our relationship it would be very easy to go well rich's show is you know we do it's a little bit different but it's kind of the same you know we're both kind of in the same category and we are in the health category this guy is my competitor you know like who's ahead of who and and and get into kind of a zero sum game mindset about like you know well who does Rich have on and who does Lewis have on? And like I got to get ahead, whatever. But that's never been our relationship.

Like we freely share guests. And if I come across somebody that I think is cool, like I think I just emailed you a couple days about William McCaskill. I was like, you should have this guy on. He'd be great. What's his book name again? It's called Doing Good Better. Yeah. I have his book.

I was like, read his book is on my assistant's shelf right there. And I saw the name. I was like, I think Rich just introduced me to this guy. Yeah. I have his book. He's amazing.

Yeah. I'll probably have him on there. And it was, it's, it's like, you know, on, on the tip that you were just saying about like having guests on and,

and being in that privileged position of being able to help them by exposing, you know, what they're doing to your audience you know he's like he's like you know who other who else you know what other podcast should i do how you know when i was like oh i'll connect you with lewis i'll connect you know like they're like it feels good to be able to say i can help this guy yeah um and and that's always been our relationship like i don't feel competitive with you at all and i feel like there like there's certainly room for both of us and there's some overlap and our audiences are somewhat different.

But to the extent that I can help you, I know that we're all just helping ourselves. Of course. And that's a cool mindset to be in. But I think it's counterintuitive to how most people function and operate. So I'm interested in kind of how you, you know, how you conceptualize that in, in, in, you know, the relationships that you have. Yeah. For me, you know, I don't know. I think I used to be a lot,

I think a lot differently about competition and about making introductions for people earlier in my career because I wanted to have the advantage. But then something shifted where I was like, there's so much abundance in the world. And if I introduce you to one of my guests who's on my show or whatever, it's only going to add value to you. And it's going to add value to me as well

because you're going to see that I'm giving you something constantly and constantly looking out for you. And one day you're going to want to have me back on your show to help promote whatever I'm doing. And so it's just going to constantly come back. If I give, I just know it's going to come back somewhere, whether it's through you or somewhere else, it comes back. Was there something that happened though that caused you to have that realization? I think it's just the more I started researching. It was when I was trying to make money.

The more I started researching the most successful successful wealthiest people, they talked about how the key to making more money is really giving more money away. And like the more you give and help others and serve other people, the more you're going to get what you want. And I was just like, it was hard to think about that because when I was broke, it was like all I wanted to do was save the money and like keep it to myself. So I was like, I don't want to, I don't have money to give to other people or to like give to charities or help other people. I need to help myself. But they kept emphasizing, even just a little bit here and there, the more you practice giving and giving away what you make, and that's also your skills, your value, your time, the more it's going to come back to you and abundantly 10 to 100 times more.

And so once I started practicing it, as opposed to being scared of giving people my ideas or tips or connections, instead of being scared about it, I just freely gave it. And I realized, this was when I was writing my LinkedIn book, and I realized that it's more important to be the champion of everyone's network than to have all those relationships only to yourself. So I'd rather introduce you to my entire network and make you a multimillionaire than try to just hold them to myself and make you work hard on your own. Because when you get to the top, you're going to want to bring me with you. And if you're the champion of everyone's network, every influencer's network, if you're that

champion who always gives them what they need, makes the introduction to help them with their salesperson they need or a designer or a new COO or whatever it may be. If you're the one connecting them to the solution of their life, they will be the solution for you at any time as well. And that's the key. I love it. And I've seen you practice that time and time again. And that's helped me too, because I understand that intellectually and I practice it whenever I can. But then there's always that moment where you're like, yeah, but do I really want to maybe that one here's the thing maybe that one's just for me and now now there's discernment like I have discernment with certain people like if I feel like someone's

just a taker and they're like they talk bad about me behind my back or I feel like there's just weird energy with them I'm probably not going to go out of my way to make make introductions or like serve them in the biggest way because there's other people who are nicer, who are up to bigger things, who have great values that I want to serve. So I'm kind of choosy with who I serve in that level where I'm going to go out of my way. So I'm not just giving to everyone all the time. Yeah. Well, that's about healthy boundaries. Exactly. And being conscious of the company that you keep.

Exactly. Right? And you keep some pretty amazing company know and you've been able to cultivate some pretty amazing relationships with you know a lot of influential you know people out there tastemakers and the like and some of that is through the podcast but but yeah some of that isn't right like you know from a guy who is you know sort of couch surfing and sleeping in your sister's house in ohio to you know kind of being on speed dial with gary v and all these kinds of people that are kind of movers and shakers in this you know internet landscape that we live in you know how did you kind of claw your way to that place man you know it was finding

you know gary this is an example since you brought him up, like, since 2009, I've been serving him in the biggest ways. You know, he came to Ohio to do a book signing event, and I, like, brought the whole community out and, like, drove him around wherever he needed to go and just, like, built it there. And then when he came out with his first book, I think I sold, like, 500 copies for him or 800 copies for him or something like that from doing a webinar. 500 copies for him or 800 copies for him or something like that from doing a webinar. Then when he had his next book, Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, I sold 10,000 pre-orders for him. Wow. I had three relationships. I was like, how can I help you sell this book?

He was like, I'll do speaking gigs for this amount if you can get speaking gigs to trade for books. I was like, done. Within three weeks, I had 10,000 pre-orders for him from Wow. From three relationships of event planners that I built relationships with for years and just became friends with and said, hey, you can get Gary right now if you buy this many books. And made it happen. He only sold 40,000 something pre-orders. And I sold a fourth of his pre-order copies in three weeks.

So it's just like for five years, I was adding value to him without asking for anything in return. And I do that for everyone. I'm constantly just adding value to these tastemakers without asking for anything. Yeah. It goes back to that theme of being in that place of giving. Yes. That's it. Like being genuinely, honestly kind of rooted in that. Yeah. And it brings up kind of the idea of mentorship. I'm sure you get emails all the time like, hey, can I take you out to lunch and pick your brain or all that kind of stuff. And when I get those emails, I'm like, I just don't have time. But instead of doing that with Gary V, you could have sent him an email like,

hey, can I take you out to lunch? But instead, you just helped him. That's it. Right? And it's, you know, Ryan Holiday talks about this, like when he was starting out and, you know, how he kind of tried to bring value to Robert Green, you know, and how when you can be in that place of like, how am I contributing to these people to make their lives better without looking for, you know, what you're going to get out of it or what the paycheck is when you're just constantly in that place. Your life grows exponentially. Yeah, exactly. And I get these emails all the time too. And I would love to go hang out with everyone and have lunch with everyone, but we wouldn't get anything done if we did.

And the challenge is a lot of people email me and say, hey, I'll move to LA for six months and work for you for free. I want to learn from you. And I'm like, that's flattering, but it would take more work to teach you how to do everything and then you'd just leave and do your own thing. It's like, I would need someone like a Ryan Holiday who was just going to step in and do the work and who's like,

or someone who's going to sell 10,000 copies for me just because they want to be around me and they want to learn. That's like how you got to do it. How can you serve that person at the highest level without asking them their time? Who have been the biggest mentors to you? I had some early on mentors, guys that you probably don't know of from Ohio who really supported me, a guy named Chris Hawker, a guy named Frank Agin who helped me write my first

book, and then another guy named Stuart Jenkins who's a big inventor as well those guys really kind of helped mold me into where I'm at now but really it was just online like Chris Brogan early on Gary Vaynerchuk I would just watch their videos and read their blogs and I learned so much and then I would meet up with them in person at events and just continue to learn from them by asking questions but I feel like I learned from everyone. Constantly I'm learning from people who are ahead of me, people who are just starting out. I'm picking up new ideas. I'm just reading content, watching videos, and I learn through osmosis just by consuming information.

Those are my mentors, the information. Right, right, right. I feel like everybody wants to have somebody of the caliber of like a Gary Vee or like a, you know, whoever it is that is sort of excelling in whatever field you're interested in. But I think, you know, there are people that are probably surrounding you in your own environment that could contribute to your life in a mentorship context in a way. So you get caught up in the sexiness of somebody who's doing something kind of you know exceptional online or or or otherwise um but but not that's not always you know the best route to go like who's around you that has experience that you could benefit from i think like it's hard to get everything you want from one mentor these days like because we're

always especially if you're an entrepreneur if you've got big dreams it's hard to get everything you want from one mentor these days. We're always, especially if you're an entrepreneur, if you've got big dreams, it's hard to get everything you want from that one person. And that's why I think it's valuable to hire a coach to keep you accountable, to keep you on track, to show you what you're missing, to let you know, to give you the right feedback and say, hey, this is how you're showing up. You say you want this vision, but you're showing up in a weak way where you're not staying committed to it. Someone to keep you accountable and give you great feedback. Have you hired coaches in the past? I've got coaches for everything now.

I've got a life coach. I've got a business coach. I've got a relationship coach. Every area of my life, I've got someone who's giving me feedback and saying, okay, you say your vision is this, your goal is this, and are we on track or not?

If not, here's what I see is in the way. So somebody just keeps me accountable. Yeah, the objective feedback, like people that aren't going to just yes you and then hold you accountable. I pay for them. Yeah, I pay for these coaches, yeah. Wow, that's interesting. Like I don't pay anyone to do that professionally, but I definitely have a board of directors or a board of advisors.

And I have certain people that I call for different kinds of things that have experience in these different areas of our life. And I think everybody should nominate their own board of advisors in their life because we don't have all the answers. And I think, especially as men, you're kind of reared to be this guy who walks around and pretends like he has all the answers to everything

and has everything figured out. And ultimately, that's just a phenomenal weakness that you have to overcome, right? Exactly. And it brings up issues of kind of openness and vulnerability and masculinity and i think you have some really interesting um things to say about that and perspectives on that because look you know you're like a you're like a big dude you're like a big young handsome guy football player

handball player like kind of an alpha male guy um and you expect someone who kind of cuts that cloth to be a certain kind of guy right you know kind of like a bro down dude you know who's like yeah i got it all figured out like let me tell you how the world works and all that kind of stuff and and i think that was one of the reasons why like i just love you so much is that you're not like that guy. You allow yourself to be vulnerable. And in your own way, you're redefining kind of the parameters of masculinity in the sense that you're a very affectionate dude. When I came in the door, you gave me a hug, and that hug just went on and on and on. You're like, long hug, you got me comfortable.

But I love that. It's like you're not afraid to be affectionate. You're not afraid to share your feelings. You're not afraid to tell people in your life, including men, how you feel about them. So let's explore that a little bit. Where does that come from and what is that about for you? Oh, man. Well, I just did a talk at World Domination Summit about this, calling it the

myth of masculinity. And my whole life, my childhood, all I really wanted was to feel like hugs and loved by my family and my friends and just to be accepted. And I think all of us want that. We just want to be accepted. We want to feel good about ourselves. And I didn't feel good about myself growing up. So I had a lot of alone time, a lot of sadness. I was always getting into trouble and I just didn't really feel like anyone cared about me. And so in a lot of ways, it's made me driven to be a great athlete because I wanted to get the acknowledgement that like, Hey, I am worthy of your acknowledgement of your care and of your love. And I know my family was there for me and they loved me, but it's just like it was the story I told myself every single day.

So I was so driven to be a great athlete that I focused a lot on my ego and it became my identity. But I was still a very sensitive, emotional person growing up. My sisters would call me the sensitive jock because I was like this big guy that was like, rah, rah, let's go punch people in the face in football. But then I'd come back and I was in the choir and in the musical. I was playing guitar and singing love songs and stuff like that. And I would tear up during sports movies or whatever.

And so they would call me the sensitive jock. and I would tear up during sports movies or whatever. So they would call me the sensitive jock, and I think it wasn't until the last five years where I really started to evolve and grow into letting go of the ego, that I need to have this ego, this perfection image, this I'm a tough guy image, especially as I started to build a brand online and use my voice more,

I realized that that wasn't serving me in my life in my relationships that wasn't serving me friendships that wasn't serving me and when I started to just be like okay this is who I am and I am I have these fears and I have these vulnerabilities and I started to just talk about it I realized a shift

in everyone else as well when I shifted everyone else shifted around me and I was able to connect in such a deep, intimate, loving way. It got me quicker to my dreams. Again, the key to success in life is relationships, and the key to powerful relationships is vulnerability and being real. That's the quickest way to build relationship with someone and to create that connection. We could meet for five minutes and have this surface-level conversation and really not connect with one another.

Or we could meet for five minutes and one of us opens up and shares something that's scary for us to share or that isn't sound perfect or that isn't the right thing to say. And we could feel like we've been friends forever and have that connection and that instant relationship and be like, man, I feel like I just know you. I feel like I relate to you. You never have those feelings when you meet someone. You're like, man, I feel like I've just known

this person forever. It's because they're bringing something out of them that is a reflection of your intimacy, your fears, your vulnerability, and you feel safe around that person because they opened up. Right. And that has been such a shift for me. Once I started to open up in that way with everyone and just love in such an open, vulnerable way, it doesn't mean I have to be in tears all the time and be sharing my deepest, darkest secrets,

but just being real is vulnerable enough. Yeah. Most people aren't real with people they're not and it's it's understandable because it's terrifying it is it is terrifying you have to let your guard down you have to put your ego aside and all this sort of cultural programming that we have our whole life about how we're supposed to carry ourselves has to be cast aside so there's a lot of barriers to getting to that place and i remember i mean it's been a while

now but you posted that podcast interview where you talked about you know being abused as a young kid and um i i imagine that that was scary very scary like talk about that very scary it's about a year ago a little over a year ago i mean just explain a little bit about what that is yeah i was sexually abused i was raped when i was five by my babysitter's son. After school, kindergarten, I went to this babysitter every day. And one day, the son took advantage of me. And I had no clue what was really happening. And I was just going along with it.

And for 25 years, I didn't talk about it to anyone. I just stuffed it down. And that was my fuel to get revenge on the world and to be the best. And I had to be number one at everything because I didn't want to be ever taken advantage of. So that's what made me train so hard. I wouldn't say it was the reason why I trained so hard. It was the reason, but it was one of the things. How did you get to that place of self-awareness though, that that was a driver? I mean, I did an emotional intelligence workshop a couple years ago in LA where we were going through all the things in our life that's been holding us back.

So it was just like, all right, think about it. Has anything held you back? Your breakups, your parents going through divorce. Maybe you went through a divorce. What are the things that guard you now? maybe you went through a divorce. What are the things that guard you now? And so the facilitator was just like, look at the things in your life that have happened and what has shifted once those things happened for you. What has made you a harder person as opposed to a softer person? What has made you less open for love? What has made you guard yourself in conversations? All these different things. And so he was like, think about these things.

And my brother went to prison, and my parents got divorced, and I felt alone constantly. And I was in the special needs class all through elementary, through school, through to high school because I couldn't read and write. And so I was like, I've already talked about all these things. Those things don't affect me anymore. But I was trying to go through all the things in my head like what is holding me back like is there anything like my brother was a big deal when he went to prison for four years and i had to go there every weekend in the visitor room to sit with him and be in a room full of convicts and not have any friends

during that four and a half years because the parents wouldn't let their kids hang out with me because my brother's in prison and i was like i i dealt with all these different things and i was fine with them all and then it came in my head and i was like oh that moment when i was five why haven't i ever talked about that and why would i never addressed it with myself and been open but you can remember it i remember it vividly it wasn't like uh suddenly you remember like you always did you always remember it was always a It wasn't like suddenly you remember it? Like you always, did you always remember it? It was always on my mind, like subconsciously. You know, it would come up.

It was like a bad dream that I just remember constantly. But I can remember the smell, the taste, the room, everything about that moment. And it just was subconsciously always on my mind. And I think I tried to shove it away as like this dream that like it didn't happen, but I, it's like, I remember everything. And, um, so I was like, Oh wow, this is something for 25 years I haven't discussed. And if I can't discuss it with anyone, then it's probably holding me back. It probably has this hold on me. It's got this control.

It's got this power over me. If I'm not willing to just address it and talk about it. And he was like, okay, now is your time to fully let go of anything that's ever been holding you back. If you haven't let it go yet, now's the time to do it. You've got a safe space to talk about it, to do whatever you need to do. And I remember thinking, if I don't talk about this now,

I'll probably never open up about it. Like, here's my moment. And my heart started like pounding. I was like, if I share this with people, what are they going to think about me? I was so ashamed and afraid to hear of like, to think what people would look at me differently. You know, I had this image that I wanted to portray

into the world of who I was, and that's not part of the image I wanted people to know about. So I stood up in front of this room. It's probably about 50 people. And I remember I was looking down at the ground. I couldn't look at anyone's eyes. I was just so terrified of what people would think, but I knew I had to do it. And so I shared openly. I told the whole story and then I sat down and luckily there was two women sitting beside me but I just wept for about 15 minutes. I just like released the biggest like wolf cry for so long

and I was so grateful that these women were like so compassionate. They were just like holding me and I just could not hold back any tears. I was just like, I was so ashamed of myself still. I was so like embarrassed, ashamed of myself, felt guilty, felt like people were just going to look at me bad. And I remember I just couldn't look up anywhere. I just like stayed down with my hands on my head while these women were holding me. And then we like took a break from this, you know, from what we were doing. And I

just like ran outside out of the conference room or whatever, ran out into the, uh, to get some fresh air into the back alley. And it was just like in tears. I just did not want to go back in. I didn't want anyone to look at me. And when I was out there after a couple of minutes, it was like one of the most beautiful things that ever happened in my life. All these men came up to me and just hugged me and said, you're the most courageous human being I know. Thank you for sharing. Here's what happened to me. People were

opening up to me. I created this relationship with people that I just met a couple days prior where it's like we were the closest of friends because I dropped my guard and my walls and revealed myself and made them trust me. And when we don't reveal ourselves fully,

we're never fully able to trust someone else. But it's when that person is, like you're so connected to Casey Neistat, it's because he's like so vulnerable and real in his videos. So you feel like you trust him right when you meet him. You're like, man, I know you. I trust you. You're amazing.

I want to ask you these questions. I want to drop my guard because you do it every day. Yeah, that's amazing. And in the case of what occurred to you, I mean, intellectually, you understood, of course, that there's nothing to be ashamed of because you were a victim, right? You were five years old. How could you possibly have any culpability in this terrible act that was perpetrated upon you and yet that's the emotion that you know festered for you know decades 25 years man and then obviously you know even though

you kind of walked around with it thinking well it's not that big of a deal it was kind of like a dream i could ignore it when you released it, like the cathartic emotional breakdown is demonstrative of how much emotional power it was holding over you. It was holding a lot of power. Yeah. It was holding a lot of power in me. And then when did you get to the point

where you're like, I'm going to share this on the podcast? Because that's a whole different beast. Yeah, man. I got to the point where I was like, you know what? I want to share this with my family. I shared it with this group of 50 people who are going through this workshop.

I was like, I think I need to share with my family. I think it probably took a few weeks until I opened up one by one my family. I was working with my relationship coach at the time. I was like, here's what happened. I want to tell my family I don't know how to do it. I'm terrified because I don't want them to feel bad. I don't want them to feel guilty like they weren't there for me. I don't want my mom to be in pain.

I just didn't want that. Because I can only imagine what that would feel like if I had a child and they said I was raped by the babysitter you sent me to. Could you imagine the amount of guilt that a parent would? Yeah, the burden. Yeah, so I just didn't want that. And she told me, you've got to ask him a set of questions first

to set it up for him. And I was like, okay. I can't remember all of them, but one of the questions was really powerful for me. She said, you need to ask them, before you tell them, is there anything I could ever do that would make you not love me?

And just see what they say. Is there anything I could ever do that would make you not love me? And just see what they say. Is there anything I could ever do that would make you not love me? And I asked that to everyone and they were like, absolutely not. It doesn't matter what you do, I'll always love you. And so it created a space for me to be like, okay, I can share something that happened 25 years ago and they're still going to love me. So I think that was my fear. They were going to look down at me. They were going to be ashamed of me or something. But my family's gone through so much. My brother went to prison. It's like there's no other shame you can do than going to prison. There's no bigger shame, really. And so he was like, absolutely not right away. He was like,

of course, I will always love you. There's nothing I could do. That created this safe space to really share openly. Man, I thought I knew my family well, but after I opened up about this to each one of them, it's like I had these hour-long conversations with each one of them. So you did it individually? I did it individually on the phone. I couldn't do it in person. None of them were here in LA anyways,

and I wanted to do it as soon as possible as opposed to wait until Thanksgiving or something. And it was like, man, I created such a deeper relationship with each one of my siblings. I've got three older siblings and my parents, where we just, they opened up, we cried together, they opened up and shared other things that happened to them that I had no clue about. It just helped us connect and understand each other better. And my sister was like, I always thought something happened based on like your defensiveness and your guardedness. I always thought something happened to you. And I was like, man, I didn't even know. Yeah. She's like, you're putting out

a vibe to the world that was noticeable on some level to her that I'm sure you were completely unaware of. I was completely unaware of it. And you're not just like reactive and defensive for no reason, like something has to trigger that for you. And you're not just like an angry person in certain situations for no reason. There's a backing trigger. And so each conversation was just really powerful and brought me closer to my family, not farther away. So what it created was freedom and connection. When I open up about who I am or what's happened or what hasn't happened or my fears, it creates this intimacy, this connection, this freedom. Like it was the biggest weight lifted off my shoulders, 25 years of holding this secret.

And I shared it with my family. And then I started sharing it with really close friends one by one because I was like, okay, my family loves me, but what about my friends? So I started sharing with my friends one by one and asking them the same thing. Like, I want to share with you something, but I just want to ask, is there anything I could do that would make you not want to be my friend or love me and look at me a different way? And so I would set it up first. And all of them were just so supportive and loving. And some people didn't know how to handle it. It was like a lot for them to hear. And sometimes it makes me think like maybe something happened to them.

Right. If somebody starts to freak out, maybe there's something going on. Yeah. And they're not ready to share and that's fine. And I wasn't expecting people to open up and tell me their life story. I just knew I needed to get it out there to my closest friends and family. And it probably took like six months where I was like, I really feel like sharing this on my podcast could be something really powerful but I only want to do it in a way

that supports people and serves people that doesn't try to like have people think that I'm doing this for publicity or for whatever reason in a negative way. So for months, I was like, I'm not going to do it unless I can find a way to do it in a really ethical, value-driven way where it serves people. And I asked Jonathan Fields if he would interview me for it

to kind of navigate the process because I thought he would be great. And so he agreed to. And we recorded it. And I probably waited another three or four months until I released it. I was terrified. I was like, what is the world going to think of me?

Still. I was still terrified because it's a different audience. And I remember posting it. I was sitting right where you're sitting. And I posted it. And it was about a year ago, a little over a year ago. And it was at probably like 10.30 or 11 o'clock at night. I had no clue what was happening that night, but I just decided, okay, I'm going to post it today. I'd been sitting there. I was like,

okay, I'm going to post it. I had this feeling like I need to post it now. I got the post ready. I edited it up. I put the text in the blog post. Then I clicked submit or publish, and I just tweeted it. All I did was tweet it. And for weeks, I was working with my friend Glennon Melton, who I had in the podcast. You know her blog, momastery.com. She's a big New York Times bestselling author, talks about vulnerability and stuff. And I was like, here's what I'm doing. Can you help me figure out how to do this effectively? How to write a good headline so that it's captivating but not alienating. And so she wrote the headline for me. She like helped me do everything. It's from like a woman who's been there and done that. And I publish it. I tweet it out. And then I'm like, okay,

it's up to the gods, whatever happens now. Like I'm not going to promote this hard. I'm just going to tweet it and see what happens. And I literally turn around and I open my balcony. I sit out here and I'm like nervous. I'm like sweating. I'm like, what are people going to think? What's the reaction? And I go on, I'm like scrolling through Twitter and I'm seeing like insane responses within like 10, 20 minutes as people like just retweeting me. But I'm also seeing something else happening. People are posting photos just randomly of something that was happening in the world. And it was a super moon that night.

And so I remember like, as I went out there, I look up and I see like the biggest, brightest moon I'd ever seen in my life. And it would happen to happen right on that night when I published it. It was like the weirdest thing. I was like,

this is, there's can't be coincidence. That's a trip. Like it like pulled me to do it that day. I didn't even know that was happening the weirdest thing. I was like, this can't be a coincidence. That's a trip. It pulled me to do it that day. I didn't even know that was happening. I was like, something is changing in the world where it's opening me up to do this. I posted this one on the Supermoon night.

It was supposed to be one of the biggest Supermoons in the last 100 years or something. The next day, I went to bed and woke up and my inbox was flooded from emails of people sharing with me essays of stories about men and women just opening up about how they've been sexually abused and raped. And it wasn't something I was looking for, and I didn't know what I was going to get.

But the story, for like a week and a half, I was feeling like a hangover. I've never been drunk, but I felt like this extreme hangover by reading all these stories and reading the pain that people had gone through, but also reading how they're finally going to take action and be free themselves. And so they all started sharing with their family and friends and telling me what they were doing to overcome this sexual abuse they'd experienced. And I'll tell you what, man, it made my story seem like a PG movie compared to the things I was reading. I couldn't believe some of the stories people were telling me about their sexual abuse and how many men and women have been abused. It's unbelievable.

That's a beautiful story man thank you and and one of the reasons why i wanted to talk about it with you today like timing is everything you know it's like these windows of opportunity arise where like it's like okay now's the moment that you know whatever happened in that moment that made you share it on the supermoon it was crazy um just yesterday i posted a a podcast where and this is certainly nothing nearly as traumatic as you know as being abused as a young person um but i talked about something that i'd never talked about publicly which is that like i relapsed in late 2011 oh really from alcohol yeah from alcohol. And, you know, I had been, it was in Hawaii. It was right after I had DNF'd at Ultraman. Like, it was a year where I was, like, super fit,

and I was gunning to, like, be at my absolute peak athletically. Way more fit than anything I had ever been previously, like, in 2009. The races that I talk about in my book, Finding Ultra, I was a completely different athlete. Like I was on fire. Wow. And I was ready to just uncork like the performance of all time. And it didn't go well.

Like I just didn't – something was wrong and I was spitting up blood. Like on the second day, I had to pull out of the race and just I had all my eggs in that basket. blood like on the second day i had to pull out of the race and just i had all my eggs in that basket and and i don't think that i was fully like in touch with how devastated i was from that and and i hadn't been diligent in my recovery program i'd sort of been cruising you know and i've been like well i'm working out and i'm eating well and like you can i had been sober for 13 years and you start to get into this mindset of like, well, I don't really need to go to AA. Like I have it together. Like I'm

onto this thing now. 19 years or sober. 13, I had been. Yeah. And so it just doesn't become as heightened as a priority as it is when you're a broken man and you come in and you're willing to do anything to get sober, which is where I was when I got sober. You start to just kind of like take your pedal off the gas a little bit. And after a long period of kind of not being so focused on it and not making like attending to my sobriety a top priority, you're a ticking time bomb before you're going to pick up a drink. And so I won't recount the whole story because I just did it on my podcast, but essentially I picked up a drink and I got drunk.

And I found myself at an AA meeting that night. So it wasn't like I went out and crashed a car or destroyed my family. It's like I was able to nip it in the bud. That's good. But the point that I'm trying to make is that I've been open about this in AA and with my sober buddies but the point that I'm trying to make is that, you know,

I've been open about this, like in AA and with my sober buddies and I share about it from the podium. Like I'm very open about it, like in that forum, but not publicly, you know? And so why weren't you open about it? Because I was shamed, you know,

because I was ashamed, especially as somebody who had written a book that told their sober story, Yeah. You know, because I was ashamed, especially as somebody who had written a book that told their sober story. Right. You know, and I'm supposed to be this person who has this problem

figured out to then admit that actually I'm a frail human who still suffers from the disease of alcoholism and doesn't do it perfectly.

You know, and when you have like an audience or people that are looking to you for, you know, advice or inspiration or whatever, there's a certain burden that comes with that and expectation level. And I just got to a point where, you know, like you, like I thought, well, this isn't that big of a deal.

Like I don't have to share everything about my life to everybody. But if my message is be authentic, be willing to be vulnerable, have the courage to walk your talk, then it's not acceptable for me to not discuss this. Plus, perhaps there's somebody out there who's in that same situation who could like benefit or benefit from hearing my story or avoid falling into the trap that i fell into so i felt compelled to share it and i told the whole story and i just published it yesterday and i can tell you that hitting publish on that was the most scary terrifying thing ever i bet you know i was like well we'll see what happens like i was like not looking forward to the comments on this one. And how's the response going? How many listeners am I going to lose?

And literally yesterday, I did it. I was up late. I hit publish. I went to sleep. And the next morning, I didn't even check my email. I was like, I had such a crazy emotional hangover from the whole thing that i was like i just got to ride my bike and i went out for like a four-hour ride i didn't go online at all like i was i think i was in part scared to like see what the response

would be um finished my ride and i was like all right like i feel better like let's just like see what's happening and you know like yourself i've never had more comments on a post, you know, a billion tweets. I got like 200 emails yesterday. The response has been insane and incredibly positive and just, you know, loving and compassionate with a lot of empathy.

And like yourself, like people telling stories about, you know, like there's a lot of people in recovery that listen to my show. So, you know, I relapsed or, you know, I've been sober for a long time and I haven't been diligent. Hearing your story is going to make me reboot my thing because I don't want that to happen to me or, you know, and it's weird because you could tell your story to someone else like yeah share it because you'll be amazed at the response but you you don't know that fear like when you're holding on to something that you're ashamed of to like shine a shine a light on it and expose it is terrifying even when you know that's the solution to being able to release it right yeah so it's

just interesting you told that story and then this just happened to me yesterday you know and i i don't mean to compare my little relapse to being abused in any way but that was just something that i was holding on to that i was ashamed of and i think of course you know as human beings we've all done stuff we're not proud of and we all hold on to that and keep it private and we're afraid to tell people about it but you know there's a lot of power in like in in in bringing it out because because you know, there is a lot of power in like, in bringing it out because, because, you know,

in the same way that your sister could see like your behavior being driven by that episode that you were holding onto, I think we all have,

you know, things like that in ourselves that become impediments to us growing into, you know, the best version of who we can be.

Yeah, absolutely. So, anyway, man. Thanks for sharing. Thank you for doing be. Yeah, absolutely. So anyway, man. Thanks for sharing. Thank you for doing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll get back on track now. I want to talk about the book, but while we're still kind of in the realm

of talking about podcasting, I'm interested in what you think makes a great podcast guest. For me, I get a lot of requests for people to come on, and they have to inspire me. So if they're not inspiring to me in a huge way, and so I have got a lot of great guests that I've already been on, and it's like if you're not on that level or higher, or you haven't done something different or unique that inspires me, then it's probably not a great fit.

It doesn't mean you're not a great person or have a message to share. I'm just looking for a specific type of person. And I also don't want people that have just done the rounds on every other podcast. It's like, unless they're incredible, you know, and I'll share someone with you and you share people with me. Um, if there's someone big or something like that, but if they're just doing every podcast, like I probably don't need you right now. Like it's like, it's waiting till you're not doing every podcast because there's always a lot of overlap.

And if they're going to listen to my show or someone else's with you on there, then I don't want to compete with that. Unless it's like Tim Ferriss, who's doing everything and it's like, they're a big name then. Okay. So for me,

they've got to be inspiring. They've got to, you know, I really want them to have a big audience already, not because I want them to promote, although that's great, but because if they already have a big audience, it's just validating that they're inspiring the world already and they're already creating a ripple effect. So I want to introduce them to my audience now. That's pretty much what I'm looking for.

Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I share some of that. I'm a little bit different in that, um, in that, uh, I don't care so much about their audience. Sometimes for me, the most gratifying guests are the people that no one's ever heard of that I've come across.

And I'm like, Oh my God, this guy's amazing. Like I need to help this person. You know, like everybody needs to hear what this, there's something really cool about that. Sure. And sometimes those guests don't get the most downloads because they're not the Tim Ferriss's or whatever, but I think there's something cool

about that. And I think I would agree with you in the sense that, that there's like a gut check that has to happen. Like you have to be excited about meeting them. And sometimes people come across my radar and they're doing amazing things, but for whatever reason, no fault of their own, like I don't emotionally connect with it. And I'm like,

I don't think this is the right fit. Like, because if I'm not excited about it, then it's not going to be a great interview. You know what I mean? Exactly. You can't force it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And another thing, like if they're a big guest with a big audience, the reason I like that is because usually they don't open up in certain ways. Usually they are guarded or they do have a perfect image or something. So I look at it as an opportunity, like Tony Robbins, to get him to share things he's never shared before. Of course. I want to be that guy who opens them up.

And so I look at it as a challenge. How can I be that space for him to share? I wonder if everyone goes in. With people that do so many interviews, everyone's like, challenge. Like how can I be that space for them to share? I wonder if like everyone goes in, they're like with people that do so many interviews, like everyone's like, how am I going to crack this guy? Right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Even if they just say one thing different

than they've ever said before, I'm like, that's a winner. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's much less, and I've said this before, but it's like, it's much less about the information that's conveyed. Like if I can just get a connection, like if i can emotionally connect with this person so that they relax a little bit and and can just be who they are like that's more important to me yeah i think that trumps like making sure that the points are made but it's sometimes it's hard it's hard the hardest

interviews are the people that do the most number of interviews because they're so used to it and they have their talking points or whatever so it's like how are you going to get beyond that right yeah I had Simon Sinek on one time and he was awesome and he was giving these great answers but they were just like almost too good they were like too perfect and I was like okay

I got to ask him some different questions and so I started to get like real and vulnerable with him and I remember he always he answered within like a half a second everything and just got on a tangent some different questions. And so I started to get like real invulnerable with him. And I remember he always, he answered within like a half a second everything and just got on a tangent. And it was great. But I was like, okay, how can I get him to think?

And I asked him a question where he's like paused for about 10 seconds. And he was like, hmm. And he didn't know how to respond. And I was like, that's when I knew I was going to get something great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's cool, man.

All right, well, let's talk about the book, man. Yeah. It's pretty exciting stuff. Very exciting. The School of Greatness. That's it, man. The book version of the podcast, but so much more. Yes.

It's been a long time coming. You were nice enough to send me a galley copy, and I'm very touched that I'm in the book. Featured big time. That's not why we're sitting here. Featured big time. Yeah, actually, I was like, whoa, I'm in this book. Featured big time. That's not why we're sitting here. Featured big time. Actually, I was like, whoa, I'm in this book a lot. That's crazy. Because we've been talking about this for a long time.

And you had told me, oh, I want to include your story in the book. You didn't know that much. I did. Because I was fact-checking with you on some things. I was like, is this correct? Is this correct? Yeah. I'm very honored that you would consider

my story worthy enough for your book. So that means a lot to me, man. Thank you. I'm very touched by that. And I'm really excited about the book coming out.

It's coming out October 27th. Correct. Yeah. You've been, you know, doing your marketing trip for quite some time right now.

So all those, those hands are coming home to roost quite soon here. I mean, I'll post this right around the book date launch. So when people are listening to it, the book will be, will be just out. But, um, you know, before we get into kind of the details of what's in the book, I mean, what, what inspired you, you know, to write this book and what is the motivation behind it? This has probably been like a 18 year dream of mine. I went to a Tony Robbins conference when I was 16.

I think that was 18 years ago. And I remember sitting there feeling so inspired. He had probably like 20 different speakers from like Donald Trump to Larry King Live to Jerry Rice to all these different high-power individuals, champions of life and business come and speak. And I was just so inspired by the message. It was really like the first time I'd been exposed to some type of like

inspiration like that at a conference, at an event. And I remember at one point, Tony walked down the stage, off the stage, down the aisle. And I was probably like halfway back in this huge stadium arena, halfway back on the floor. and he walked back and he stopped right next to me and like looked out he didn't look at me but he just stood next to me and set a point out into the audience it was probably from me to you and i remember just looking up at this giant man he's a cyborg it was unbelievable and i was just like the energy he has right now there's something to the energy where he's just creating inspiration out of me because of who he's being. I didn't even know what he said, but just his energy was so powerful. I said, one day,

I want to be able to speak in front of thousands of people like this and put off an energy like this to inspire people. I want to write a book and do CDs at the time and do whatever I can to get my message out there. I didn't even know what my message was at 16. I was just like a nobody trying to get a girlfriend. But I was like, this is what I want to do. This is like my calling. Someday I'm going to figure out how to do it. I don't know how to do it.

I'm going to figure it out. And once I got done playing professional football. Hold on one second, though. How did you end up at a Tony Robbins conference at 16? That's unusual. I was going to a boarding school in St. Louis and my mom was there with me and my dad just said,

hey, I see this event is happening in St. Louis. So he bought me and my mom tickets and me and my mom went. That's cool. My dad, yeah, he just bought us tickets. Here's the reason why. He saw that Dick, I think his name's Dick Vermeule.

He's the coach for the St. Louis Rams who won a Super Bowl. He was speaking. But he was the Eagles coach. He was, but then he went to the Rams and won the Super Bowl in 2001, I believe it was, 2000 or something like that. And he was speaking,

and he said, hey, you should go, he sent me there to go watch this coach speak. And he got VIP tickets to go meet the coach afterwards. So I met with the coach. But I was at a Tony Robbins thing. And I never knew who Tony Robbins was, but I was just so inspired by him. And like his message really connected with me at 16. And as a guy who had big dreams to play sports,

to play college sports and professional sports, everything he was saying was helping me get to that goal. And I applied it over the next couple of years in high school and in college. I just like stuck with it, that message and with my dreams and like whatever he gave us, I was like doing the work.

Because I was like, oh, if all these champions are doing the same type of thinking and work and exercises, like I want to do what they're doing. And so it's just solidified like Jerry Rice these coaches all these people were there Donald Trump like yeah I want what they have and um you know I've been like always into inspirational personal development work

to for myself over the last 15 years since then and it's just been a powerful journey. So seven and a half years ago when I got done playing arena football, I got the four-hour work week as the only gift to Christmas from 2007 going into 2008. And I read this book in three days. And it was really hard for me to finish any book. I probably read 10 books cover to cover before that. I read this book in 10 days. And it opened up this possibility in my mind. I didn't even know it was possible to be an entrepreneur, to make money online, to build these businesses. I didn't know that was possible. But Tim wrote out the path on how to make it happen.

And so I said, I'm going to figure this out. I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I'm going to figure this out. And I was broke, sleeping on my sister's couch for a year and a half, just engulfed in this information. And then that's when I started to research about online blogs and connect with Gary Vaynerchuk and all these other people from this book that I started to research. And after I got done finishing that book, it was literally probably New Year's Eve or something. I remember saying to myself, I had a cast on. I remember saying to myself, one day, I'm going to write a book like this and inspires millions of people around the world the way this book inspired me

and opened up a new possibility for my life. I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I'm going to do it. I'm going to become friends with Tim Ferriss. We're going to become really close. I said this to myself. I was like, we're going to become great friends. This is almost Machiavellian. I was like, I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I'm going to get in touch with him and figure out how to meet him, become friends with him. His agent, whoever the agent is of this book, I'm going to meet him and he's going to become my agent. And I'm going to write a number one New York Times bestseller the way this book is. And the years went by and I reached out to Tim many, many times and finally connect with him at a mastermind event. And then, you know, now we're good friends today. We've worked on a number of things together and he's a great friend. And I learned who his

agent was for the four hour work week and for years built up a relationship with him before I even knew I was interested in doing a book, but built up a friendship and relationship to the point where he approached me and said, I think it's time we do a book together now because where my brand was going. Now we have a book deal. And by the time this comes out this week, we should find out if the trifecta comes true about the New York Times list. So let's talk about the book, right? The School of Greatness.

Yes. So what can we find in the book? By the way, just for the record, I read the book. I love the book. Thank you. And we were talking about this before the podcast as well but um it's a very you know solving that um that equation of how to create like an effective you know inspirational you know non-fiction how-to book is very difficult right yeah it's like when i look at it i'm like all right well what what what hasn't already been said in some other book?

Like what are you going to bring to it that is going to be new or fresh? And in some respects, there are no new ideas, but there are new perspectives on ideas. And I think why your book works is because it's about your journey through these ideas, right? it's about your journey through these ideas, right? So it's like you put yourself in the seat where you're sitting right now as a podcaster and as somebody who's just looking to grow. You're vulnerable and open about like who you are and what your challenges have been.

And you're like, here are the people that have taught me and let's explore what their ideas are. And then you're able to put your spin on like how you can, um, implement those ideas into action through like, so really like, you know,

easy to understand and practical like tools and exercises that kind of were on the tail end of each chapter. Yeah. It's tied together beautifully. So it's, it's like not too easy of an, a read, but it's not too difficult of a read either.

Like it hits that tone of being like effective instructional and informative without being like burdensome or like too fluffy either right right yeah you know for me the books that i really liked that i that are my favorite books was one is uh the four-hour work week and the other is the alchemist and so i wanted to make a blend of them both i wanted have you read the alchemist before yeah i wanted to be like not really connected with me it was probably the timing when i read it and i was like what if i could create a book that's like combines them both where tim's is almost like a little too much resourceful for me it's like so many resources at the end of every chapter and like links and places to go which was great uh but it's almost too analytical where

the alchemist is too much of a story. It's all story-based, right? So I was like, what if I could mesh those together and allow people to walk through the story and the journey of their life to see where they're at now, if it's working for them, what their biggest dreams and goals are, have they achieved them yet? If they haven't, here's the exercises on each stop along your journey on how to make them work. And that's what I wanted to create. I wanted to create like the ultimate book for me, something that would be inspiring to me where I could get a lot out of it inspirational wise, but then proven exercises that'll help me get to that next level.

And a lot of these exercises are things that I learned from the sports world. I picked up all these different exercises from sports and apply them to my life and business. These exercises are what helped me sell a million-dollar company, build multi-million-dollar brands. If it wasn't for these exercises and this way of thinking, I wouldn't have been able to achieve that in a short amount of time. Really, two and a half years after I got injured playing football and had no clue what I was doing, I was able to transition fairly quickly into building a business online without experience, without a degree in any of those things. And I'm just sharing with people exactly how to do it for themselves. And what's amazing is that it's really informed by your

experience of having all these guests on your podcast, which are really, that's kind of like the scaffolding upon which this book is built, which is all the amazing conversations you've had. It's like me being the ultimate mentee and sharing the wisdom from all the best mentors in the world. And what I came up with was eight core principles of greatness. If you want to be great in any area of your life, if something's lacking or something's missing that you want to get an advantage in, there's really eight things that you need to be great at. And if you can master all eight of these principles, you're going to be a pretty freaking sweet person.

You're going to be an amazing human being at whatever you want to achieve if you can master these eight principles. And from all the interviews I did, I realized that these guests fall into these eight categories really well. Some better than others. Some are masters of certain things

and not masters of others. But if they put together all the eight things that people do well, this would be these things. And so I share with you how to master it and then the exercises for getting to the next level. Right, right, right. And I'm just looking at them now.

So it's like create a vision, right? These are all very simple. Yeah, they're very simple. And again, they're not like, it's not like you invented the idea of like creating a vision, right? But everybody has their perspective on that.

So I look at that and I'm like, all right, well, this is kind of in the world of Danielle Laporte, right? Like she's somebody who speaks to that and I know you're friends with her. And then it's turn adversity into advantage. And I'm like, when I see that,

I'm like, oh, Ryan Holiday holiday stoicism you know what i mean like there's a lot of you know to be mined from that then the champion's mindset you know uh the hustle it's like okay gary v right like uh master your body uh i might have something to say about that yep uh practicing positive habits, building a winning team, and being of service, right? So those are kind of like the principles upon which the whole book,

the book and kind of the... Yeah, and if you can follow those eight principles, you're pretty much at the top of your game. That's it. So if anyone's feeling... This is the only book that I need.

That's the only book you need right now. That's it, yeah. No, but I mean, you know, and there's always more you can go dive into. So this is really getting you started. And obviously, that's why I have the podcast so we can dive in deeper with each topic and things like that.

Right. You know, that's why you have your podcast to dive in deeper. But for me, this is something, it's a guide. You know, I call it a real world guide to living bigger, loving deeper, and leaving a legacy. And if that's something you want to do in your life, then this is the book for you.

Well, who doesn't want to do that? Exactly. It's interesting, the subtitle of loving deeper. You know what I mean? That's very much like, that's very you. You know what I mean? But that's not a phrase that you would typically see in a book of this nature that kind of falls in that category of like entrepreneurship and building a business. Yeah. And the book is not about building a business specifically. It's not

like I teach you how to build an online business, but if you follow these principles in your business, you will grow your business. And I give examples and things like that, but it's not a strict business book. So I've had so many of my author friends tell me that the subtitle, they're like, you need to change the subtitle. You need to talk about how it's going to be, create financial freedom for you, make millions, this and that,

because then people will pick it up. And I'm like, you know, or because of the rank hire and SEO and blah, blah, blah, and Amazon, and I'm like, that's just not what the book's about. It's not about making millions. Through doing it, you will make millions if you're like fulfilling these principles. Yes, but it's not teaching you like, here's how to start an online brand and like run a business. It's not teaching that. So I'm like conflicted in some ways because all my author friends are like,

it's going to flop. You know, the subtitle is not strong enough. And I'm like conflicted in some ways because all my author friends are like, it's going to flop. You know, the subtitle is not strong enough. And I'm like, but this is the essence of the book I want to write. And I think it's going to change people in such a powerful way that their life is going to be changed forever as opposed to just making some money on the side. Well, you know, I'm with you. I'm glad that you didn't change it. There's always that tension between the people that are saying, this is what works, especially in this like,

you know a lot more about internet marketing than I do or ever will. But when I look at it, I'm like, people will say, this is what works. You have to do it like this. And I look at it and I go, I'm never going to do that. Right. I just can't get into that spammy, clickbaity way of functioning. Like, I'm just, I don't care if it works. Like, it's not who I am and I'm not willing to do it.

Right. But there is that tension. Like, when you come up with a book title, like, what's going to track, what's going to travel, you know, and you get into these conversations about it and it's all, like, kind of weird. Yeah. Ultimately, the book just will stand on its own. That's the goal. weird. Ultimately, the book just will stand on its own. And maybe in the first week or two, that might impact things. But if the book is good, then it will do what it's meant to do. And you have to just kind of believe in the long-term view of it.

Right. Exactly. So I believe in it. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. I mean, kind of talking about that internet marketing stuff, you're somebody who really lives transparently online um there's always that kind of relentless pressure like okay i gotta put a new podcast up and like what's my instagram today did i do a snapchat like by the way we didn't snapchat today we should before we leave like now there's beam you know like like it's insane it's it's this pressure of like providing content. But when you're doing that, you're not present in what you're doing. It's true.

You know what I mean? Like it's hard to like do both. And it's like, yeah, I want to share my experiences to the extent that, you know, whatever I'm experiencing could perhaps be, you know, helpful to somebody else. But I also need to recognize that that being present whatever i'm doing and just being in my life is is more important than that yeah um and finding that balance like i'll go on tears where i'm like snapchatting all the time and then i'll burn out i'm like you know what i don't need a break like i just need i just want to be in my life right yeah so like i'm going to hawaii for three days tomorrow and i I'm committing to myself to not take my computer

and I'm committing to, part of me wants to just leave my phone in the hotel and not use it at all. I may take it and just leave it on airplane mode and take photos, but not post anything then and wait till I come back to post something, but just be more present

and not be like, I need to post this now. Yeah, that's a good challenge. So we'll see. But that's going to be tough. Especially when you're like a month and a half out from launching your book not be like, I need to post this now. Yeah, it's a good challenge. So we'll see. But that's going to be tough. Real tough. Especially when you're like a month and a half out from launching a book and you're like, what if something happens?

Exactly. Yeah. But I mean, how do you do that on a daily basis? Like kind of run that calculus and deciding like when to share, when not to share and creating boundaries around that. So you're just like maintaining your quality of life. For me, it's really trying to be good in the morning and at night and try to shut down

and give myself like time blocks of when I can use my phone or when I can post. I've also got a better team in place that's helping me post things for me. So I don't have to be doing it all the time. But there's certain things that I like to do like Instagram and Snapchat, obviously, which is like eye control. so it's just about saying okay i'm only gonna look at it

these times and sometimes i'm good and sometimes i'm really bad and i'll just sit there for hours scrolling on instagram or whatever so yeah it's a balance yeah i hear you man no i'm always trying to you know find where that balance lies so anyway we going to wrap it up here in a few minutes, but there's a couple of things that I want to talk to you about before I let you go. Um, and one thing is, uh, you know, one of the ways that you always kind of end your podcast is by acknowledging somebody, uh, for, for what they do or, or, or how their work, you know, impacts others or what it means to you personally. And so I'm interested in how you came to that and why you think acknowledging people in that way is important.

It's a beautiful thing to do, by the way. Thank you, I appreciate it. I wish I'd come up with that. I came to it, to be honest, from this workshop I did. We learned a lot about acknowledgement. Acknowledgement is a thing that we really, if we think about it, it's almost like the basis of everything we do, we want to be acknowledged for. Whether it's

through our loved ones, we want to hug, we want to be acknowledged for the work we're doing, our parents when we're growing up, we want them to acknowledge us. It's why we work so hard a lot of times is to get that recognition or some type of acknowledgement, whether it's a comment or whatever. And I feel like we don't get it enough and we don't give it enough. And we wait to acknowledge people until they're not around, until they're dead. And then we come out and acknowledge them. There's some crisis. Yeah.

And we wait until the end of their life and they die. Then everyone comes out and celebrates them when they're dead. Why don't we celebrate, create a funeral for everyone every single day where they can experience it when they're alive? What would life look like if we acknowledge people on a daily basis? It doesn't have to be this funeral type for our acknowledgement, but just like a short, powerful, intentional acknowledgement to show people say, hey, I see you and I recognize the power inside of you, and I appreciate it, and here's my acknowledgement to you for what I see. So I started doing it on my podcast. I had no clue what it would do, but it's interesting whenever I do it,

it's interesting to see who can handle it and who can't handle it, because a lot of people don't know how to handle it. Yeah, that's what I'm interested in. It's very disarming. It's challenging to receive like i am i have been known as the king of not being able to receive anything and years ago and for the last two years i've just been practicing daily like opening up and saying okay i'm receiving whatever people want to say about me i'm not going to deflect it and say oh you know it was nothing you know a lot of people deflect yeah because it's not comfortable to feel like it's hard to receive help it's hard to ask for help it's hard to receive praise yeah when it's heartfelt exactly it's like it's vulnerable it's very vulnerable to say it and receive it that's why people do it

when they're not around because they can say it and not feel like scared of whether to respond so i started doing it and it's just been, you know, sometimes I feel like I connect and resonate with people, and it means something, but other times I'm like, who knows? Like, they don't really tell me a lot of times. Right, they're like, okay. Yeah, right? They're like, oh. I got to go.

So I just, I want to set the, I want to be a symbol for people, and I want to set an example and constantly be consistent with my word and acknowledging people. And the thing is, I'm also always acknowledging myself. This is something I never did. I never felt like I was good enough. Even when I would achieve my dreams, I would say, well, but I didn't do it as good as I could have or could have done. I always doubted myself or put myself down in some way, even when I was at my top.

doubted myself or put myself down in some way, even when I was at my top. And so I really practice it as an example to love myself deeper and acknowledge myself and not be so hard on myself even when I mess up or when it doesn't go the way I want it to or when I hurt someone or when I say the wrong thing. You know what? I still get to acknowledge where I'm at in my life and all the good I am doing. And I get to acknowledge other people for what they're doing. So you apply that acknowledgement to yourself? All the time, because I'm like a recovering alcoholic in the sense of I've doubted myself

and put myself down all the time. I'm really good at putting myself down. So I need to constantly do my daily AA for acknowledgement. And that's why I do it for other people, and then I do it for myself. Because our emotions is really control us one way or another in a positive way or a negative way and we have the choice on how we want to feel in every moment no matter what happens to or for us and acknowledging ourselves

is like a way to heal and hug our heart so that we're okay and we can move forward in a positive way as opposed to just beating our heart and stabbing it by saying, I'm not good enough to myself. And that doesn't serve us or anyone else. So we might as well acknowledge the good we're doing, even though we're not perfect and we never will be. Yeah, I love that. I mean, I think that we all have more control over that story

that we tell ourselves about who we are. And most of us walk around and we just accept it. Well, you know, this is how I feel about myself because this happened and this happened. And we isolate out like things that occurred and we apply all this meaning to them. And we ignore all these other things that have happened to ourselves

as not being informative of whatever that narrative is. And to like take control of that narrative and say, let me tell a new story. I'm going to tell this story now. And I'm going to affirm that by acknowledging myself and and repeating that on a daily basis to reprogram that i think is a amazing practice to be in yeah it's like a meditation practice every day you know so lewis i acknowledge you for acknowledging others thank you i acknowledge you for acknowledging yourself thank you i acknowledge you for being a big, loving spirit who is very open and for being somebody who is committed to helping other people, for somebody who is challenge our status quo ideas of masculinity

and carry a higher vibration as an example to other men out there. It's a beautiful thing that you're doing. Thank you very much. I appreciate it, and I receive it. You receive it? Good. I receive it. Good. And I am humble in giving it to you.

Thank you. So, of course, we're going to close it down with a version of how you close your podcast down, which is you always ask your guests what their definition of greatness is. And I think when I sat down with you the first time, I asked you, of course, what is your definition of greatness?

But I'm going to tweak that a little bit. I want to ask you, how has your definition of greatness changed from episode one of the podcast to now? You know, that's good because it evolves based on where my vision's at and based on where I'm at in life. And that's why I'm always interested to ask people what their definition is because it's different for everyone. Our definition of greatness when we were 10 was probably like to be great in school and to be good to my family or something. Yeah, it's always evolves.

And for me, from episode one, it's probably evolved in a way because I've just been evolving as a human and my emotions have been evolving and what mattered then doesn't matter as much in my life as what matters now. Can you speak to that specifically? Yeah. You know, my impact now, I think before, you know, I think before I was still, when I first started the podcast, I was still like just driven to, to achieve and to make money and to, you know, be successful. I still had a huge heart and wanted to give to people, but it was more important to be successful and things like that.

Yeah, I feel like it started off as entrepreneurship and business and how to make money online and all of that. And there's been some spiritual growth where now it's much less about that than it is just about general personal development. Yeah, exactly. It's more about being the person we were born to be. And the focus isn't about making money and building a business. That's a part of it.

Making money is a part of life. And you want to be successful at that. And I want to make millions and billions. It's not that I don't want that. But my definition now, if I'm speaking right in this moment is to uh be true to myself and maximizing my talents and gifts and giving them to the world and then making the the greatest amount of impact on the greatest amount of people in the world that's my definition that's a good definition maximizing my gifts to serve the world and then make the maximum amount of impact

on the maximum amount of people. Yeah, yeah. This is another reason why you have to have William McCaskill on your podcast. Okay. Because he's all about that. Like, how are we channeling our resources, our energy, our dollars,

so that we can have the biggest impact on the most number of people? And he's done some very interesting research that's counterintuitive on how to actually accomplish that. Well, now I'm going to have to have more of this. So make the intro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So you provided one definition of greatness in the introduction of

your book that I thought was beautiful. So I'm just going to close it down by reading it. It's by a guy called Matthew Arnold. I don't know who that is. Who is Matthew Arnold? Great question. I can't remember either now either. Just a guy with a great quote. I found the quote. I was like, who that is. Who is Matthew Arnold? Great question. I can't remember either now either. Just a guy with a great quote. I found the quote. I was like, this is perfect. He said, greatness is a spiritual condition worthy to excite love, interest, and admiration. And the outward proof of possessing greatness is that we excite love, interest, and admiration.

That's a beautiful thing. Powerful. All right, man. Thanks for doing the podcast. Thanks for having me on, man. I appreciate it. Peace, dude. I appreciate it. Peace, dude. I appreciate you.

So if you're digging on Lewis, he's super easy to find online. School of Greatness podcast on iTunes, lewishouse.com, at lewishouse, pretty much everywhere else, and greatnessbook.com

to learn more about the book. And of course, it's on sale on Amazon and everywhere else, right? And if you're in, if you're listening to this, the day this comes out, it should be in the octagon, the front and center of Barnes & Noble

if you walk into the store. So look for the book there. I didn't know they called it the octagon. That's what I heard yesterday when they told me. They're like, you're going to be featured in the octagon. It sounds so dramatic. Well, it's like the circular centerpiece. Yeah, I know what you mean.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's exciting. Well, based upon all the marketing seeds that you've planted and have been fertilizing for what seems like months and months and months now, I would imagine these are all going to blossom on or around October 27th. So perhaps it will be impossible to avoid hearing or seeing fluids by the time this comes out. That's the goal. So I'm just further saturating the airwaves with your message. And I'm happy to do it, man. I love you, buddy. I want only great things for you. I'm just further saturating the airwaves with your message. I'm happy to do it, man.

I love you, buddy. I want only great things for you. I'm excited about your book, and I can't wait to see it become a great success. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. All right, man. Peace.

See you. Plants. Hey, did you guys enjoy that? I think we did it. I thought it was pretty good. I hope you enjoyed it. Be sure to pick up a copy of Lewis's new book, The School of Greatness.

You can find it basically everywhere books are sold. I have a feeling it's going to be unavoidable. You're going to be seeing Lewis and his book pretty much everywhere because that's the kind of guy Lewis is. He is very much going to be of the zeitgeist, I think, over the next couple of weeks. But why not go ahead

and just use the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com to pick it up, and that way we both win. Sound like a plan? I think it's a good plan. Don't forget to check out the show notes at richroll.com for additional articles, background, and other materials and resources related to today's conversation. Again, I put a ton of time into compiling these so make a point of checking them out read up learn more take your knowledge base your podcast experience beyond the earbuds if you happen to live in LA or you are passing through here it would mean a lot to me if you checked out a few of the businesses that I'm partnered with how about having lunch or breakfast or dinner at

joy cafe it's our organic, plant-based and gluten-free eatery in Westlake Village. You'll often find me eating there three or four days a week. So if you want to meet up with me, the best way to do that is not to send me an email and say, hey, can I have a phone call with you? Or can we go for a run? Especially if I don't know you. But just drop by Joy Cafe. More likely than not, you will see me there around the lunch hour. I'm also partnered with The Karma Baker, which is a vegan and gluten-free bakery also in Westlake Village. They make amazing vegan plant-based desserts that will delight your sweet tooth. And I got to say, it feels really great to serve the global community with this podcast.

Like I said, I've just been traveling. I was just all over Europe. Everywhere I go, I run into people on the street who are podcast fans. It's amazing. It is such an amazing feeling to just randomly bump into people who are impacted and affected by the message that I'm putting out there. It feels great. But you know what's also great? Making sure that you serve your local community.

And that's what my involvement in these businesses is all about. And I do that by trying to help facilitate these businesses with food that's consistent with my values. So how about that, right? For all your plant power needs, go to richroll.com. We got our new cookbook, The Plant Power Way. It's also very much a lifestyle guide. As well as finding ultra copies of both of those books that we will personally sign for you. You can get those

through my website. We have Julie's Guided Meditation Program. We have 100% organic cotton garments. We have nutrition products. We have tech teas. We have sticker packs. We have fine art prints. We got all kinds of cool stuff that is oriented and designed to help you take your health and your life to the next level. Keep sending in your questions for future Q&A podcasts to info at richroll.com. What else can I tell you? We've got a couple online courses at mindbodygreen.com, one on plant-based nutrition, the other on goal setting. Go to mindbodygreen.com and click on video courses. Tons of information there about those. Very affordably priced, multiple hours

of streaming video content, online community. They're really great courses and very affordably priced. And I'm really proud of them. So thank you for supporting the show by telling a friend, sharing it on social media, all that good stuff. Of course, thank you for using the Amazon banner at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. Got some great episodes coming up. Amazing interviews with some really extraordinary people. So keep tuning in and keep spreading the word, guys.

Thanks so much. And thank you for taking this journey with me. And I'll see you guys back here in a couple of days. Peace. Peace. Peace. Thank you.