The Rich Roll Podcast - Maggie Q Is A Badass

Episode Date: April 19, 2021

Actress. Athlete. Activist. Entrepreneur. Fashion designer. Environmentalist & Plant-based icon. Maggie Q is the hero we all need. If you’re a fan of Mission Impossible, the Divergent films, Nikita, Live Free or Die Hard, Designated Survivor, and a slew of other films, then you’re already well-acquainted with this Hawaii native’s kick-ass, action screen presence. What you might not know is that she cut her thespian teeth in Hong Kong under the tutelage of martial arts master Jackie Chan. To this day, she’s known for performing all her own stunts. Off-screen Maggie is a passionate plant-based, animal rights activist and environmental activist. She’s a board member of Social Compassion in Legislation, a policy advocacy group fighting for animal welfare protection laws in California, such as the Cruelty-Free Cosmetics Act. And her work has been recognized and awarded by the City of Los Angeles, the State Senate of California, the California Assembly, PETA, Wild Aid, and many more organizations. In addition, Maggie is the creator of QEEP UP, an apparel brand made from entirely recycled and pre-consumer waste materials, and ActivatedYou a nutrition company and wellness resource that combines her passion for health with the expertise of podcast alum Dr. Frank Lipman (RRP #370), a renowned integrative medicine doctor. The question isn’t what can Maggie do — it’s what can’t she. Today, we walk through Maggie’s unique upbringing. We dissect her crazy career arc. Her work as an activist. And her passion for animals, human rights, and the ocean. She shares some epic Hollywood stories, including an epic, previously untold Tom Cruise yarn that gave me chills. We also discuss the importance of finding your cause. Fighting for it. And supporting others along their respective journeys. But more than anything, the lesson Maggie imparts today is the power of holding space for others—and why forgiveness is paramount to personal freedom. FULL BLOG & SHOW NOTES: bit.ly/richroll596 YouTube: bit.ly/maggieq596 Maggie is someone who is committed to self-growth and someone who knows a thing or two about catalyzing internal and external change. Wise and funny, she’s an excellent conversationalist. She brought her German Shepard, Romeo. By the end, our conversation turned into a therapy session. And for reasons you will soon discover, everyone here at the studio basically fell in love with her. Peace + Plants, Rich

I get to Hong Kong at the time Jackie Chan had a management company where he was sort of looking for the next generation of action stars. Like, that's what he was doing. And he knew that his name and his, you know, all the things would be a great headline to what he was doing. And he was, you know, kind of training all these young boys. And, like, I was, like, the girl. And they took me on and they trained me.

His team trained me. And I became this sort of like action star. And I was a runner, okay? So you have to understand like people who aren't runners, like we're not a flexible people. Like I couldn't touch my toes at the time, you know? And they're sort of looking at me going, you look strong and we think you are strong and we think we can make you into something. But geez, like this is going to take a while. Right. And there is specialists in every discipline. So he's got like the Kung Fu guy, the Taekwondo guy, the karate guy, like everybody is specialized. And so they sort of take you on and they, they break you. And at least being with Jackie,

I had some sort of protection against, or I think it was a protection against a lot of, you know, that studio mafioso type of stuff that they do, you know, in all parts of the world, but over there especially, you know, it's sort of like I was his girl in that I was like someone he was bringing up that he was raising in the business. So I wasn't to be messed with too much. You know what I mean? Like there was a sort of a blanket of protection a little bit. So that helped me. I'm Maggie Q and this is the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, what's happening? What's the word? This is Rich Roll. Hey, everybody, what's happening? What's the word?

This is Rich Roll. So good news is if you are looking for my podcast, you found it. My guest today is Maggie Q. Maggie is an actress. You've seen her. You know her from movies like Mission Impossible 3, Live Free or Die Hard, the Divergent movies, the television show Designated Survivor, all kinds of cool stuff.

She's also a plant-based animal rights activist, an environmentalist, an ocean preservation advocate, a fashion designer, an entrepreneur, and basically just an overall super badass, cool human being. This is an awesome talk. We definitely vibed and it's all coming up quick. But first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that,

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To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. So, Maggie Q. Maggie's got an incredible story. We talked about her unique upbringing in Hawaii, her crazy career arc, her work as an activist, her passion for animals, human rights, the ocean. She's an awesome talker. She's wise, she's fun. She brought her German shepherd, Romeo, who was great. And by the end, it turned into kind of a therapy session, which was cool in its own unique way.

And for reasons I think you'll soon discover, everybody here at the studio basically just fell in love with her. Plus, she dropped some epic Tom Cruise stories, including one she's never before shared that gave me chills. And I think you're gonna enjoy it. So here is me and Maggie Q doing the thing.

It's super nice to meet you. I'm surprised that we haven't met before. We have so many friends in common from the whole vegan community, animal rights community. And also you were just really like the first that I was aware of that was doing what you were doing on that level. And it was just, it was so, it was such a pioneering move.

And so, yeah, I'm really surprised. Yeah, well, I think we've probably been at some of the same sort of benefit. Yeah, all the fundraisers. I'm so boring that like, that's me going out, going to a fundraiser. I'm just intimidated by everyone. I sit in the back and I leave early.

I try to sit in the back and leave early, but they always want me to like present something. You've been in it much longer than I have. It's been like 20 years or something like that at this point, right? It really has, yeah. I remember you were part of Earthlings. We're both friends with Sean.

I remember when that movie came out and I was pretty new to the whole thing. Really? And I was at some, I think it was in Woodland Hills or like at Pierce College, there was some janky like veg fast that no one went to or whatever, there's like 10 people there. And Sean was like selling DVDs out of the back of his car.

And that was when I was like, tell me what this is. Yeah, of course, we didn't have hard cases. And we watched it, you know, and that movie has gone on to become quite a phenomenon. Yeah, before it's time, you know, as we were talking about earlier, I think that it was really tough for people to take. And now with the internet, you know,

there are images and videos and things you can access all the time now, but at that time, I just think, I don't know, I always said to Sean, it's not that I think that people don't care, I think they don't know. And I think once they know, it's hard to not care. And that was the point of that documentary. Well, cognitive bias still kicks in.

I mean, that movie is Earthlings when it's sort of like, oh, and you gotta like turn away cause it's so intense, you know? But then you're like, you turn back and then you have to turn away again, but you can't forget it. And it stood the test of time. And it's still like kind of the touchdown film

for, you know, introducing people to just how dark and gnarly the whole thing is. You're so right. It is so dark and gnarly. And when, you know, witnessing, you know, Sean as a director, producer, writer, you know, sort of sit, you know, in a garage, essentially in a garage, you in a garage for months on months

and months on end with 400 hours of factory farm footage and going, no, that moment, like that cow, that act of cruelty, that's gonna matter to someone, right? Because it's all awful. But I think one of the things that people don't realize is that these filmmakers and the people who are actually making the sacrifice to face this head on and full on, they're really brave people.

They're people that are incredibly special and they are able to face things in a way where, even for myself, I mean, I have pretty thick skin when it comes to certain things. And I think as I've gotten older, I'm less and less capable of witnessing any of this stuff. And back in the day, I was a little more capable. Someone like Sean, who's a gentle soul,

he can sit there and watch all that cruelty for hours and hours, hours, and pick out that moment that's gonna affect someone and change their life. And that requires a very, very special person. Yeah, it is a unique type of individual that has that kind of sensitivity out of the womb basically. I mean, like the animal thing for you

was from the get go, right? It really was. Right, so there's something, I have this theory. I remember talking to Jean Bauer about this. Like, I just think that Jean, like people like Jean come out different and they're like super sensitive to the way the world operates.

And it leads them down this certain path, but not everyone's wired that. Cause like I came in, I've been vegan plant-based for 14 years now, but animal rights wasn't my entry point. Like that's become really important to me, but that wasn't initially. Yeah, it was more of a health thing.

And it was like a vanity thing, if I'm being honest. There was a selfishness to it that now I've become much more attuned and sensitive and passionate about the other things, but I'm not wired that way, the way like you are or Jean or Sean or Joaquin or these other people that just wired that way, the way like you are, or Jean or Sean or, you know, Joaquin or these other people that just, you know, carry that sensitivity,

which probably makes their life experience very painful. It is, well, an empath path is, it is really painful. I mean, you nailed it. It's exactly it, right? Cause you sort of like, you can't shut off that feeling. And I remember like being a kid and sort of witnessing just like, just cruelty in general,

whether it was to another adult or a child or an animal. And I remember thinking, I remember feeling a lot of pain over that. And it didn't have to be my own pain. I hated seeing people in pain, a life in pain, let's put it that way, because the animals included obviously were a big thing. But I did witness a lot of that cruelty as a kid. And I remember when it came to the animals, it was especially unfair because they just, they had no choice, right? They couldn't get away. They couldn't call for help. There's no 911,

you know, for a dog that's getting beaten up or tied outside or hurt in any way or a cat or whatever it is. Like they don't have the resource to do that. And so it does take us, it does take an outside source to say, I don't think that's right. That doesn't seem right to me. Yeah, you got it.

So Earthlings was like 2005, right? So you couldn't have been back from Hong Kong very long before that took place. Like how did that come together? Sean pioneered obviously everything, Sean was already on it, collecting footage, doing everything he was doing. And when I got back, when I moved back from Asia

to the States, it was like, I was changed by actually by PETA. PETA was the group, and as you know, PETA is not a shy group. No, not quite. No, not quite. I wouldn't use that word. But PETA, as it were, was opening an Asian office at the time.

And so I didn't even know they had a presence in Asia. I mean, PETA, they're very famous, right? So you know about what they do at New York fashion week and all this sort of stuff. And it's all very sensationalized and kind of like, you know, this sort of fun thing, cultural thing that people make fun of. But in Asia, there really was no representation

for the animals. And at that time it was sort of like Animals Asia, who's still in business. And they've been around for about 30 years. But other than them, it was sort of like Animals Asia, who's still in business and they've been around for about 30 years. But other than them, like these bigger, more organized groups like hadn't come in. So they come in to open this office

and that's what changed me. So I was already changed when I was living in Asia because I was sort of like this self-professed animal lover, but was still doing all the things that were cruel and unacceptable. And so that's why, as we were talking earlier, it's very easy to like meet people where they are and have compassion for people who don't get it

because I was that person. I can't, you know what I mean? I wasn't born conscious. I wasn't born, I was born empathic. I was born sensitive, but I wasn't born like understanding it from a larger perspective and going, oh, okay, well, my action has a chain reaction and this is what's happening in that chain.

So I was changed already. And then when I came over and met Sean, it was just like that perfect timing of like, I was just new and kind of ripe in this. I'd come from a region where animal rights and cruelty and the voice of animals is non-existent. And so I was really on fire to like get this message out. And I think that the easiest, if you can call it that,

the easiest region in the world to do that is the West, if you're gonna start with anywhere. Yeah, I can't imagine the temperature in Asia around animal rights is anything remotely similar to what it is here. Not even, I mean, the spotlight, the discussion, I mean, they're still coming to it and we're getting there, you know,

because of this younger generation. I mean, I think we're getting there because of what we were talking about earlier about kids changing their parents and kids having a different kind of compassion than their parents did. But, you know, I'm the daughter of an immigrant mother. You know, my mother like, you know,

fled from a war torn country and came to the United States and like her MO was not like, oh, how are the dogs feeling? I've got to save some cats. What my daughter has to say about the world. Exactly. I remember once complaining about like the toothpaste or something, it was too strong.

It was like some cheap toothpaste. And obviously everything we bought was on sale and I didn't grow up with money. And I complained about the toothpaste and she was just like, oh really? Oh really? The toothpaste that we can afford is not good enough for you?

And that toothpaste went away fast. She was like, you know what? You can get a job and buy your own toothpaste. So it was very. So your mom's Vietnamese and your dad was deployed to Vietnam. That's right, yeah. Yeah, they met in the war.

So they met there, wow. But you were born in Hawaii. I was born in Hawaii. I have a brother and sister who were born there and then they were married, came here and then they had three more kids of which I'm the youngest of five. Right, right.

So grew up in Oahu. Born and raised, yep. Yeah, Hawaii girl. Hawaii girl, yeah. Yeah, what was that like? Well, I mean, it's, your connection to nature is, and your upbringing is sort of one in the same, right?

So there's no separation between you and like respect for, all that we have in Hawaii, and you lived in Hawaii, so you understand this, right? It's sort of like, for, you know, all that we have in Hawaii. And you lived in Hawaii, so you understand this, right? It's sort of like, we don't litter. We don't do this. We don't do that. I mean, we don't harm the environment or we try to, I mean, there are people,

there are always people who do what they do. But we really do sort of live this profound connection to the world around us. And that's a very island mentality. And so I think that's what gave me my connection to the oceans in a very real way. It was like, I remember just having this respect for the ocean that was so different than people

that I'd met, you know, who grew up on the mainland and whatnot, because that was a world that was undiscovered that we really know very little about, to be honest. I mean, we know a lot and we know nothing about the ocean. And yet somehow we feel that the ocean is at our disposal. And I remember as a kid thinking, no, no, the respect that I had for it was almost like a fear that you have for someone you respect, like a superior.

I kind of felt like the ocean was my superior. And I had this like, you know, this respect that came from a place of like almost fear because it's such an unknown and yet it provides so much for us. We take and we don't know much. There is a weird energy in Hawaii. Like you can feel it.

There's a darkness, there's a lightness, there's a heaviness. Like I find myself, I was there in January for a month on the big island and I definitely- Oh, I was there all of December. Oh, were you? Yeah. On the big island? Oh, you were, cool.

Yeah, in Kona. You definitely have this, there's a sense of reverence, but also like, oh, like I'm very conscious of making sure that I put away my garbage in the right way. And that I don't like move any of the rocks. And it's like, I don't wanna like upset, you know, the balance. Yeah, exactly.

Cause that whiplash comes quick, you know, on the island. And I noticed that living in Kauai, I had Laird Hamilton here not too long ago. And we were talking about that. Like, you can feel, you know, there's like karma comes faster in Hawaii I feel like, you know. There's a checks and balance. Yeah.

There is a sensibility around that. Well, it's a very, it's a deeply spiritual place. You know, number one, and anytime you're, you have a connection or a closeness to native culture, you're gonna feel that. I mean, I even feel it like when I'm on native land, like in Arizona or in different places in the US, like there's just a different spiritual penetration

and awareness in everything you do. And so there's a checks and balances different. It's almost like if you felt that angels or guides or something were closer to you. And if you felt that they were watching you. Yeah, there is that sense of being watched. Yes, absolutely. And there's also-

It's ancestral, it really is. Me being like a white dude, like it's very different. I've spent enough time in Hawaii. Like I know what it's like to be in Hawaii, not at the resort, you know, like to be in where, you know, people have been living for generations. Yeah, like native inhabitants and stuff like that. And so there's also a palpable sense of like,

you're a visitor here, like this is not your place. Oh, we make people feel like that though. I mean, yeah, yes, for sure, right? Like, oh, you better tread lightly, dude, or you're gonna get into trouble and it's gonna go south quick on you. Yeah, I mean, Hawaii is the only place I know of where like white is not might, you know?

I mean, the rest of the United States, and I mean, the first time I experienced like somebody that was like, you know, kind of treated me differently was like when I lived in Japan and it was like a bunch of white girls from Texas and they thought I was Mexican, which if I was, what's the problem with that?

And so they wouldn't talk to me. And it was this very strange thing of like, I just never experienced that because in Hawaii, as you know, I mean, everyone's mixed race and there's really no, and if you're white, you have to tread lightly. And if you're not, it's a different existence. Well, and Oahu is different because it's so cosmopolitan

comparatively to the rest of the islands. It is, and it's a bigger city. And it's very much like a Japanese culture. 100% it is. So you end up going, you have a very like unique and interesting path. Like at 17, you end up going to Tokyo to model, right? Funnily enough that you say that

it was because when people ask me about that, I go, it wasn't really that much different culturally from growing up in Hawaii. Like all my, I would say 95% of my teachers growing up were Japanese. Yeah. You know, so I'm just used to that sensibility, the food, the whole thing,

but obviously I was in a huge city, fast, expensive city that was very foreign to me. How did that happen? Well, I was just a broke student. I mean, I was an athlete. So I was, my season was cross country and then swimming and then track and field, and then water polo here and there.

And so that was my year. And I ended up sort of like, we were all swimmers, my sisters and I, one of them was a diver, but I think that it was decided for us. And then as I became an athlete and really got into it, my body and my skill dictated that I was actually a runner. And that really was what I excelled at. And then it was distance running

and started to get honed in and honed in. And so that's what I got my scholarship for was cross country. And I just, I couldn't do it. I was already living on my own. I was paying rent. I was working retail. I was trying to keep a scholarship

to a private Catholic university that was- On Oahu. On Oahu. That was expensive, you know, and it wasn't a full scholarship. It was 70%, something like that. So there was just really no way I was gonna make those ends meet because, you know, as you know,

if as a college athlete, you're training in the morning before school, you're training after school. And then I had to have a job and all the rest of it. And it was completely unsustainable. I mean, at the time, I mean, I guess if you had like that support or whatever it was and you didn't have to work, you could make it work, but I wasn't in that position. Yeah, so that's kind of how it happened.

I had a girl from beautiful friend who said, I go to Tokyo in the summers and I make a bunch of money and come back. And I'm like, wow, that sounds amazing. But she was a legitimate model. So yeah, of course you go to Tokyo and make money because you have a career and experience and you're an actual model. But she was such a good friend and we're still friends today. And she just, I think she felt really sorry for me. I think she just was just sort of like, I don't know how this chick is gonna make it. I don't know how she's gonna sustain this lifestyle. And she got me a contract to go with her

and I went with her and it was, you know, it was modeling in the 90s. It was indentured servitude. Yeah, I've heard stories, terrible stories about how, yeah, the indentured aspect of it is not good. Like most of the money is going towards, they're overcharging for all these things and all the money that you make.

Yeah, they'll charge you like $5,000 US in the 90s for one room in an apartment where there's three other rooms and you're like, this seems like a lot. Yeah, is it still that way? That sounds horrible. I think it is still that way on some levels, especially like overseas, but it's just sort of like, even just the mental aspect of like,

we have this agency that was just awful and you'd walk in and there was a whiteboard right next to the door where they weighed you every Friday and they would put your names up and like you had all the categories. And so you could walk and you could see everyone's weight. So if somebody was gaining weight, immediately you go, oh, so-and-so is a few pounds heavier.

But that's what it was intended to shame you. Super woke. And the only reason that I was like the benchmark, they were like, oh, Maggie. So everybody's gonna be like Maggie cause she stays skinny. I'm like, that's cause I can't afford food. That's crazy.

So you're working and booking stuff and you still can't feed yourself? I wasn't booking stuff. Cause I wasn't, I sort of booked like one commercial at the end of my long stay there and it was a big one. And that's how I paid them back. But if I didn't get that, I wouldn't have been able to leave cause they wouldn't have been paid back yet.

So your friend who, you know, so kindly introduces you to this world, didn't tell you this part of it. She didn't. The dark underbelly. The dark underbelly. But she also- You can come to Tokyo,

but we're gonna live in a basement and eat, you know. Eat Chef Boyardee, yeah, pretty much. But she has always lived a sort of charmed life. So she, I think her experience was, she always worked and, you know, always kind of like was able to pay the bills and she was popular and very beautiful and people loved her.

And so, I think her view on it was her experience. And so it was quite good. And did you, was this like a summer thing or did you stop out of college to do it? It's like a summer thing, yeah. And then it sort of like bled into the fall a little bit. I went back to start school and I had made enough money to like pay them back,

as I said, but I didn't make enough money to like, you know, make my ends meet back where I was. And so she says, well, you know, next up Taipei. And I'm like, what? No, I hate traveling. I hate being in these places where I don't speak the language and I don't know anyone.

This is so impossible. And she's like, no, no, no, I hate traveling. I hate being in these places where I don't speak the language and I don't know anyone. This is so impossible. And she's like, no, no, no, Maggie, they'll like you there. Won't be like Tokyo where they didn't like you. And- Because in Tokyo, what they wanted, the blonde haired, blue eyed girl? Well, no, what happens in the summer

is that there's this influx of like Eastern European, you know, like Russian, like every girl and their mother, I mean that literally, they bring their mothers, comes to Tokyo. And there's like this influx of like four to 5,000 girls that will come during the summer. So there's just a lot of, it's very competitive, you know? So, but we were a handful of mixed girls. So if they wanted mixed race girls, they knew where we were.

But the rest were like, you know, pretty white girls. So a lot of competition and that was the big deal. So I went to Taiwan and when I got to Taiwan, that was actually when this trend of like blonde hair and blue eyes, that's all they wanted. So I'd walk into a room and they were like, get out. Like, we don't even want to see you. So it was like, you're either famous and Chinese or you were blonde with blue eyes. And so that rejection and that part of my life

where I went there and nobody wanted to see me and I didn't work became a very lucky actually strike for me because it pushed me to Hong Kong. Right, so how long were you in Taipei for then? I was probably there for like a few months and it was just bad. It was just sad. And you speak Cantonese? In Taipei it was Mandarin.

Mandarin. So, and I'm not Chinese, so I didn't speak a word. I had no clue what was going on. I had no friends. I had no, I mean, I was so lost. Right, so this is not going well. This is not going well. You're like strike two.

Like, why don't you just go back to Hawaii? You're like, I'm gonna go to Hong Kong now? I know, well, funnily enough, my friend was pissed off, same friend. You know, she went to her agency and she said, I don't understand why Maggie's getting rejected on this level, like what's happening? And she said to her, she said,

well, I'll tell you, do you wanna hear the truth? And she was like, yeah, I wanna help her. She said, the problem with'll tell you, do you wanna hear the truth? And she was like, yeah, I wanna help her. She said, the problem with Maggie is she's not cute, which is one thing we like in this market, and she's not beautiful. And that's another thing we like in this market. They're like, she's neither.

And so she falls between the cracks. And my friend was like, oh my God, how awful. And I ended up- That's such a terrible thing to say. Yeah, and she told me and I was like, oh my God, how awful. And I ended up, you know. That's such a terrible thing to say. Yeah, and she told me and I was like, I don't think I'm those things either. I hate this industry. It's so terrible.

Like it drives girls to the brink of insanity. I don't wanna do this. I just wanna go to school and like be an athlete. And like, that's what I wanted to do, but I just didn't have the money to do it. So I was like, they're not telling me, I'm not heartbroken. I don't wanna be a model.

Sucks. This is awful. Like, you know, I wouldn't recommend it. I know you have two daughters. I don't recommend it. Nonetheless, next stop, Hong Kong. Unless next stop, Hong Kong. But funnily enough, like I get to Hong Kong

and I sort of like did, I mean, I use the word modeling very loosely. I mean, I did commercial work, things like that. And then within that year, at the time Jackie Chan had a management company where he was sort of looking for the next generation of action stars. Like that's what he was doing.

And he knew that his name and his, you know, all the things would be a great sort of headline to what he was doing. And he was, you know, kind of training all these young boys and like, I was like the girl and they took me on and they trained me, his team trained me and I became this sort of like action. Right, so you just blew up in Asia.

And it's hard to imagine how big Jackie Chan was in Asia at that time, probably still, right? Yeah, and in America, you know, cause like he had already hit here and he was huge. So he'd become this global superstar. And then in his backyard, he wanted to create another business. And the business was training these young people

and creating the new generation of action stars. And then just becoming more of a producer. And becoming more of a producer in that respect and still starring in what he was doing, but not necessarily, we were starting in these smaller movies and he was still doing his big stuff. So you kind of go to like action movie star university,

right? Like you got to train in martial arts and become this badass warrior for the screen. It really, and I was a runner, okay? So you have to understand like people who aren't runners, like we're not a flexible people. Like I couldn't touch my toes at the time, you know? And they're sort of looking at me going,

you look strong and we think you are strong and we think we can make you into something, but geez, like this is gonna take a while. So what was that process like? Like, what do they have you doing? Well, Jackie has a team of like 10, anywhere from like 10 to 15 people who are with him at all times.

And this is his team of like martial artists, right? And they all specialize. And those are the same people that fight with him in all the movies, right? In all the movies. So like when I watch Jackie's movies, I know every single person he's fighting because I know them all, right? Right, it's the same dudes.

Right, and what people don't understand is like, you can't just throw someone in a fight with Jackie Chan. He know them all, right? Right, it's the same dudes. Right, and what people understand is like, you can't just throw someone in a fight with Jackie Chan. He's too good, right? So you have to know him and be able to fight him. So basically like his team moves with him and every movie he's in, if there's a villain, like they have to plug in his guys. The only people who can fight him.

Wow. Yeah. So what is the tradition, like the martial arts tradition that they indoctrinate you? Those are the guys that train you, like his team, right? And they're a specialist in every discipline. So he's got like the Kung Fu guy, the Taekwondo guy, the karate guy, like everybody is specialized. And so they sort of take you on and they break you.

I mean, they break, I don't know. But what's the pitch? They're like, Maggie, okay, here's the upside opportunity. You're gonna be in all these movies. Oh, that conversation never happens. So what is it? So that's a very Western thing that you're,

so everything you're saying makes sense in a logical world. And then you're in Asia and nothing makes sense. So they don't give you any foresight about like where you're gonna head or what's gonna happen. It's basically like, here, let's break you first, see how good you are. And if you're actually good, then we'll see where it goes kind of thing, right?

And are they paying you and supporting you in the meantime? No. Or like, how are you feeding and feeding yourself? No, I mean, I was feeding myself through like commercials and things like that. So you got an agent or, I mean, how does it work? Like, what's the parallel or the disconnect between like the Hong Kong version of Hollywood

and like Hollywood, Hollywood? Well, there's no unions, there's no agents, there's no publicists, none of that. None of what exists here is there. I mean, you have a manager and that person handles absolutely everything you do. They're like your life basically, but they don't specialize in all those things.

So, you know, there's no protections. I mean, there was a time I was on set for like 30 hours and there was no, nobody said, okay, we should probably go back and sleep now, you know? And there was no one to call. There's no like union hotline where I was like, hey, I'm being treated badly. But you're doing martial arts and death defying stunts.

Right, and tired out of your mind, like really truly is like a form of torture where you're like, the level of physicality is so high and yet you're just under-resourced in every way. You're tired, you're not getting the right food. You're not, I mean the whole thing. So it's sort of like the early days of Hollywood where the actor was sort of employed by the studio system.

Yeah, I would say that. You go here and you're getting your pittance of a wage. 100%, I would say that, yes. And at least being with Jackie, I had some sort of protection against, or I think it was a protection against a lot of them, that studio, mafioso type of stuff that they do in all parts of the world,

but over there, especially, you know, it's sort of like I was his girl in that I was like someone he was bringing up that he was raising in the business. So I wasn't to be messed with too much. You know what I mean? Like there was a sort of a blanket of protection a little bit that helped me a lot. Right, right.

So you survive all this and you end up getting it. I mean, you are under his wing, right? So this like blows you up into this massive star in Asia. I was listening to the podcast that you did with Justin Long. And he was like just expressing like how amazing it was to like discover like what a big deal you are in Asia, right? We went to, cause we did Die Hard together, right?

So we go to like, you know, they sent us to different places and stuff. And so I go to, you know, we're doing this junket and Bruce was somewhere

and then Justin and I were somewhere else. And we walked, I think we were in Singapore and they had like hubbed Singapore as like all the Asian press had to come down there because we didn't have

a ton of time, right? We had a premiere in Tokyo and then we went straight down to Singapore and then we had to go to the world premiere in Berlin. But we're in Singapore and I remember like we walked to Singapore and then we had to go to the world premiere in Berlin, but we're in Singapore. And I remember like we walked through this place

and he looks around and he's like, holy crap. All the posters are you. Like, you know how you see the diehard poster and it's like Bruce, you know, with like the, you know, the small eye, you know, sort of thing that he does, the winky winky. And they were me and he was like, oh my God, like what's happening?

Like how come he's not up here? I'm like, he's like, is he not big here? I'm like, he's huge here. And they're like, but he just couldn't, he couldn't wrap his head around it. He thought it was the funniest. Right, yeah. And is it like, I'm trying to wrap my head around,

that experience being in Hong Kong, like is there the same, you know, there's a premiere and there's a red carpet and there's paparazzi and there's magazines. And like, how does that whole like kind of infrastructure around the film industry operate to like create stars and all of that? It's very unruly, I have to say.

Like there was a period of like two years before I actually left Hong Kong and got my first film here in the US. I didn't wanna be in this industry anymore. It wasn't to me, it wasn't something that was worth it because the paparazzi issue was so bad and the invasiveness was so, it was so awful. Like to the point where, I mean, for me, like I'm a woman who looks a certain way.

And so in that region, you get targeted for different things, right? So I had been having trouble, you know, in the media because I had a relationship that ended and they were like, oh, it must be her fault. She must be evil. She must be all this sort of stuff. So like, don't go out, please. Don't go out. Just stay home and let this blow over. I'm like, ah, whatever.

So I'm at home and I have a friend call me and he says, hey, we're out on the water today. It's so beautiful. You gotta come out of that. I was instructed not to leave my house. I'm not allowed to leave my house. My friend said, Maggie, we're on the boat in the middle of nowhere.

Like, please come out. Like, I mean, please, you're stressed. Like, just come. Like, it's just us and we're just gonna hang out. So I sneak in a taxi and literally had to call the taxi into the parking garage. I laid down in the back seat

because they're just sitting outside of my, so I get to the thing, I evade them. I get into this little dinghy, I get to this boat. I see a couple of friends of mine that I know. I'm so happy and sunny. I'm like, oh, this is so great. And then four days later, I'm walking by a newsstand and there's this magazine and it says in Chinese,

Maggie doesn't get out of bed for less than 200 million. I'm like, what in God's name? And then there's a picture of the boat and there's these telephoto lenses. Yeah. And they caught me on the spot. I don't know whose boat it was. It was a Western friend of mine from Boston.

But some big fancy boat. Yeah, I guess the person who owned it, I don't know whose boat it was. It was a Western friend of mine from Boston. But some big fancy boat. Yeah, I guess the person who owned it. I didn't even know who he was. And I guess I had passed him on the deck. I never met him in my life. Passed him on the deck to go say hi to my friends. And they got that photo of us passing each other.

And then it was just this three months. So basically saying you're in a relationship with this person. Yeah, 100% or that I'm some kind of high-class hooker that, you know, sort of like is in this relationship. And I'm like, really? I take taxis everywhere. I mean, you know, what lifestyle is it

that you're trying to prove I live? That's intense. So this is what, like early 2000s? It was early 2000s and I just, it was so gross that I was just like, I don't, this is not worth it to me. It's not, I mean, I don't, I don't typically ever seek attention anyway. I'm really not that person.

Like even here, I mean, I do my work and I go home. I really am like that boring. Was that a big part of the impetus to leave and come back to the States? I kind of knew that somewhere I was heading back this way because I couldn't take it anymore anyway. But I was in a complicated situation because I got Mission Impossible

and I was going back to the States in 2005, but my best friend was dying at the time. She was very ill and she was living there. And so I just sort of had this thing where I got this break, but then the person I love the most in this world was not well. I had been taking care of her already for two years. And now I had to go and do this movie.

And she was always this like Uber wise, kind of sagey human being. And I got the film and I had to say goodbye to her to go to this movie. But I was like, I'm only gonna be gone X amount of months and then I'm gonna be back. I'm gonna be back and I'm gonna take care of you and I'm not leaving.

I'm not leaving you. And she looked at me and she was like, you're not coming back. And I was like, no, no, no. What? Of course I'm coming back. And she's like, Maggie, you don't belong here. I don't want you back.

You belong over there. You need to be doing the things that you're meant to be doing and it's not here. And it was a weird thing when she said that because it hit me and it scared me that I'd come back and she wouldn't be there. Right. And I kind of-

What a beautiful gift. What a beautiful gift, truly. And then, you know, I was on the movie. Did she pass when you were- On the movie. On the movie, wow. And I knew, I knew she was gonna do that. I just knew it.

I knew that she was gonna let go while I was gone because I knew that she knew I would have come back. She just, she just did. Yeah, and she didn't want that and told me as such. And so, yeah, it was interesting. That also gave you the ability to have that clean break. It did, and it was really funny because public perception versus what it is

that you deal with, I couldn't go back to Hong Kong for years, cause I was in a lot of pain over that. And I couldn't even go back for her funeral. Like the schedule didn't allow me. I couldn't even go back and say goodbye. So it was, and it's not my movie, right? It's Tom Cruise's movie. Like I don't walk into the production office and go,

hey, can you do me a huge favor? I'm number nine on the call sheet, you know? But in Asia, did the posters all have you on them instead of Tom Cruise? They, no, no, no. They had all of us. Yeah. Well, there's so much here that I wanna explore.

Cat Trump, Tom Cruise. Impossible. First of all, it's absolutely bananas that the first American movie that you book is Mission Impossible with Tom Cruise and JJ Abrams. I mean, that's just insane, right? Absolutely insane. And I wanna get to that,

but first I wanna spend a couple minutes on Jackie Chan still, who's really the Tom Cruise of Asia, right? And there's a lot of similarities. I mean, this guy is like a perfectionist bar none, right? I have said that to everyone who's asked me about it. I'm like, there's no one who works harder than Tom Cruise or Jackie Chan on different sides of the way same work ethic, same just tenacity, same leadership skills.

I mean, they're very similar in that respect. Right. Yeah. So what did you learn? So I would imagine the bootcamp under Jackie and his team, like really, you know, sorted you out and made you prepared. Like, it's crazy, like looking back in the rear view mirror that it all lined up like that. Like, had you not trained under Jackie,

you wouldn't have been able to manage Tom Cruise. I would imagine, right? By the way, a thousand percent. That would have just been an energy blast. A thousand percent correct. But also I had a work ethic, I think that was just second to none, right? Like over there, you don't, there are no breaks,

there are no compliments, there is no encouragement. It's like, you either get the job done or you don't. You're out. You're out, you're completely out. And I was on sets where like, I had three or four different stunt women at the same time, because not one of them was skilled enough to cover me in different bases and that we're getting-

In Hong Kong or on Mission Impossible? In Hong Kong. In Hong Kong. That we're just getting screamed off set and fired left, right and center. And I mean, these are professional stunt women where the director is yelling at them and saying, if you're not better than the actress, get off my set.

And I mean, it's like that. I mean, it's doggy, it's crazy. So the training prepared me, not just for the level of physicality that I would face when I got to the States, but also just the discipline and the work ethic to be able to just continue to push through until the job is done right.

And there's not a lot of people with that work ethic. Yeah. No, I know, right? I mean, we all heard that, you know, Tom Cruise outburst of whatever movie he was on where they're trying to shoot in COVID and he got all pissed off because people weren't following protocols.

And it's like, he's the producer, he's the star, he's trying to make sure the ship is moving and everybody has a job. He has every right. Right. To me. I heard that and I was like, good for him. And I also, because I know him, I know how fair he is in the professional realm.

Like I obviously, you know, I don't know him outside of the professional realm besides his like housewarming, but like outside of that, I'm not like, you know what I mean? On that level, but as a professional, he's fair, you know, he comes to work and he's like, I want everything to work and I want to provide for people. He's a provider. Yeah. You know, I mean, he's, I mean, I'm sure if you did the math, I mean, he's responsible for, you know, a lot of what the industry makes. Of course, he sets the bar incredibly high and then he outworks everybody else.

And at the same time, it's hard to connect with it. You're like, is this guy a human being or is he like from a different planet? It becomes very robotic. What is the experience of actually working with that guy? You know, he, okay, there's two things. One, he has an enthusiasm like no one I've ever met in my life.

And it's genuine. Like it just seems almost, it's so off the chain that it feels like, is this manufactured or is this real? And you're like, oh, I think it's real with this guy. When I got to- How does he maintain that? Well, when I got to the States, I didn't know any of the hoo-ha around his new relationship, like all that stuff in 2005. Like I just didn't because I just, I wasn't following it and I was on the other side

of the world. And so I got back and it was like, it was Keri Russell, who I did mission with, who I was like, what's happening here? Like who's the girl? And I think she's like, oh, you don't know about Oprah and the couch jumping and the way I'm like, no, my God, what is this thing you're talking about? So we go to lunch and she explains to me, like there's this new relationship and he's like jumping all over couches and all this sort of stuff. And I was like, oh, well, maybe he's just excited.

She's like, I don't know, Maggie, there's like speculation. I'm like, oh, this is so weird. And then, you know, as we got into it and we started working, like that enthusiasm later, once I knew him, I was sort of like, I looked at the couch jumping thing with new eyes

and I went, no, that's him. He does stuff like that all the time. Like that's not over the top. That's what he does. Like we're in Rome and we're filming and his door bursts open and he's like, and he's so fricking excited about the day. And that was every day.

It wasn't like- So what is that? Like where is that coming from? Like, what is that about? I think that number one, he genuinely enjoys what he does. And I think he still has fun doing it. You know, and I think at his level, like, we're not having fun doing it, right?

But I've worked with other A-listers, you know, at his level in terms of box office and pay grade, all that. And they are not enthusiastic about coming to work. So I wouldn't say it's the same as other people at his level. So that's special. And then the other thing is, you know, I think that he knows that he is in a leadership position

that can change the tone or galvanize the tone on a set like that. And he's well aware of that. And he's right because I'm not Tom Cruise, but I've been number one on my shows and things like that or movies. And it is top down.

I mean, if you come to set and you're that person, everyone is affected by you, truly. You know, if you wanna give everyone a bad day, you can absolutely do that. Right, but at the same time, like what is he 57 now? Something like that. Something like that and he's jumping from building to building and breaking his ankle and doing all these stunts

and like, it's just like the relentlessness. It's relentless. To achieve at the highest level is, that engine inside of him is like something, you just don't experience with almost anybody you're ever gonna meet. You just don't, you don't. And he's been, he's like in decade five

of doing this or whatever. And it's still, it's like a dynamo, like it's a nuclear reactor. It really is. That never runs out of steam. He never runs out of steam. I mean, it's almost inhuman what goes on with that person. And I also can tell you from experience

that he does do everything. And it's a lot of insurance to ensure his movies. Like he's out there. There was all that footage of where he did break, he broke his ankle, right? Like making that leap. Oh yeah, oh no. He doesn't have to do that. And it's easily done.

Like I'm telling you, like I would get into like these like little arguments with JJ about little things on mission that he wouldn't let me do. And I'm like, JJ, like I am capable. And he's like, Maggie, I need you for the whole movie. I can't lose you now. We're in month one, it's stupid.

Like, let's not take the risk. And then my double broke her ankle. Wow. Jumping off one balcony into another. And he was just like, it was that I told you so moment. He looked at me and I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. Well, yeah, the story is, and I don't know how much of this is true or apocryphal,

but you do your own stunts. This is how you were trained in Hong Kong. And how much of that is still the case? I mean, short of JJ saying, I don't want you to do that. Are you the person who's saying, no, I'm gonna do that? Like, yeah. 100%. And it's like a problem for some directors, you know, like they, you know, for example.

It's a risk because if you get hurt, they got to shut down. And this is it, right? And they're just like, Maggie, I don't think you understand what's riding on this. So I just finished a movie. I think it's gonna be out soon, I think May, with Michael Keaton and Sam Jackson. Martin Campbell directed, you know, he did Casino Royale, GoldenEye, Zorro, big,

big director. And we do this, you know, movie and, you know, there's just things. And he's like, he's like, darling, no. And I'm like, Martin, but Martin, Martin. And so we would get into these things, you know? And one of the things he didn't want me to do was this stunt. I mean, there's only two stunts in my career that I've actually had an amount of fear before because I really don't have a lot of fear. And so there's a stunt on this recent movie where I'm running and I'm jumping.

I jumped backwards off four stories and I'm taking out these guys on each level. And the rehearsal process was really, and Martin was just like, he was just pulling his hair out. off four stories and I'm taking out these guys on each level. And the rehearsal process was really, and Martin was just like, he was just pulling his hair out. He's like, I cannot believe you're gonna do this. I'm not only am I gonna do it, it's gonna be one shot on this, you know, we're gonna arm out and it's gonna be me,

we're gonna all the way, you're gonna follow me all the way down. Cause if I'm gonna risk my, we need to see it in a very real way. And to the point where like we had a cameraman who actually couldn't get it on the first day. I was 10 hours in a wire. He couldn't get it.

I had to do another day of jumping off four stories because he couldn't get it. Right. I mean, it was just, you know, that's something we were like. How have you not been in a Tarantino movie? Like I would feel like he'd be the first guy to sign you up to do some crazy stunt, you know, martial arts.

I don't like his violence. I just don't, I just not, I mean like, I'm not saying he's not a good director, like none of that, you know, I mean, It's not your trip. He's kind of, it's just not my, I really dislike his violence. It's just, it's so gratuitous.

Like I like fight scenes in a movie and stuff, but like gratuitous and ultra gory is not my thing. Right. I really. I wanna know more about how you got cast in Mission. From what I understand, like JJ just discovered you or found out what you were doing in Hong Kong and that's how it came together.

Yeah, isn't that funny? Yeah. Well, I had met this agent from CAA sort of six months before this happened and he met me at a party and he was like, wait a minute, I'm sorry, who are you? What are you doing here? Yeah.

And I said, oh, I live here, I work here. And he's like, you do movies here? I'm like, yeah. No accent, wait, you're American. Yeah, and he's like, but you're American. I'm like, yeah, I'm American. It just happened. And he said, you'll be in Hollywood in six months. And I was like, he's like, does that interest you?

I said, not even remotely. How could it not interest you? Weren't you thinking in the back of your mind, like eventually, like I'll be able to do something in the States? I don't know what I was thinking. I wasn't a long, a big picture person at the time. I think I was in survival mode.

And it was sort of like, I was going to just accomplish what was in front of me to the best of my ability and hope that I can build from there. And so I think I was very small picture at the time, I have to say. And then he just said, yeah, you'll be in high. I was like, that to me doesn't spell success.

I mean, if I'm happy and I like what I'm doing, wherever that is, that's success to me. And he's like, you have no idea what you're talking about. So anyway, I mean, six months to the month, I get this call, I have to fly to LA. And apparently like JJ had cast like 200 women I mean he had seen 200 women for this role and he was like no it's not written it's not the person yet so we're not there so I fly from Asia here and I land that evening and the next morning I wake up I am so sick

I cannot even I couldn't even stand up. I had 105 degree temperature. I called the casting director and I said, oh my God, I don't know what's happening. I'm so sick. And she's like, we're coming to get you. We're coming to get you. So she comes and takes me to Paramount. Is that April Webster?

April, who's the kindest. I mean, if anyone's listening and wants to be cast in something like she's the one, I mean, she's so kind. So she came over, they got me, got me to Paramount. And I'm, I am so sick that I'm shaking. I'm going from like sweating, like fever. Like you can't even like, I want to tear all my clothes off to being so cold that I couldn't even hold a tea in my hand.

Like when I walked in the room to see JJ, my hands were like this and the tea was spilling all over me. Cause I'd gone through a cold spell. And April was like, Maggie. And she really helped me. She said, it's 10 minutes. You're doing three scenes, max. And you can change your life in 10 minutes. And I know it's you.

I just know it's you. So I need you to go in there and get this movie. And I was like, oh my God. I mean, I was delirious. And then I did the audition and JJ on the spot said. You did it in front of JJ. He was there for the audition. Tom was promoting War of the Worlds at the time.

He was very involved in the casting process, but he couldn't be there. And normally he would be there once it was like kind of honed into a few people. And on the spot, JJ said, I will do anything to get you in the, you have to be in this movie. We're doing this movie together.

And I was so sick that I said, I think I have to go to the hospital. So I go to the hospital. He knew you were sick though. Oh, he knew I was sick, but he also was just like, you gotta bring it because it's not just me. I have to please the studio heads and Tom

and everyone else, right? So I went to the hospital. I woke up the next day in my room, like delirious. I almost, I kind of remembered what I did, but not really. Cause I was just so fevery. And I had this basket in my room. It was the biggest basket I've ever seen in my life. I mean, it was like the size of the, I mean, you can't even believe it. And I was like, I don't know in my room. It was the biggest basket I've ever seen in my life. I mean, it was like the size of the,

I mean, you can't even believe it. And I was like, I don't know anyone in LA, why would I have a basket in my room? Cause I wasn't sure what happened. And then I sort of had a card on it and I took the card off and it said, here's to a great mission, love Tom and JJ. And that's when it like hit me

that I actually got the movie. It didn't self-destruct though. It didn't, yeah, it didn't blow up, yeah. I got to eat all the crackers and figs. Well, what's funny about the way that you tell these stories is you paint yourself as very much like this happy-go-lucky person who's kind of just bouncing around and like,

oh my goodness, I didn't know. And like suddenly you're in these crazy, you know, situations and opportunities, but that doesn't happen. Like part of me is like, I don't know. And like suddenly you're in these crazy, you know, situations and opportunities, but that doesn't happen. Like, like part of me is like, I don't buy it. Like you're, you're, cause listen, you, if you're. Tell me if there's another side to it. I don't know how you, first of all, you get selected by Jackie and his team.

So you clearly not just survive that you thrive in that. Like you rise to the top and you become the person who's the go-to. Like you're identifying these opportunities and making the most of them. Well, I have to tell you at the time, it didn't feel like thriving because I may be moving up the ranks and I may be earning a measure of respect from these people,

but they never made it feel like I was thriving. Like they always made sure that you were never getting ahead of yourself. You knew your place. 100%. So it was a real struggle. And then when I got mission and I was on the film, I still felt like that person

who had to like earn everything in every second, in every moment. And then I remember the first time I got a compliment on MI3. I couldn't believe it. I didn't know what was happening. Cause that doesn't happen. It just didn't happen for like seven years.

Yeah, it didn't happen. And so I kind of sat back and was like, what is this thing you've said to me that made me feel something inside that I shouldn't feel? Cause then I'm getting ahead of myself. But the minute you get to Hollywood, everyone's blowing smoke up your ass. Well, that's what I mean, but mean by so disingenuous, right?

So it's sort of like, there's so many compliments that go on, you know, as you know, you know, this is Hollywood speak of like an agents and people I'd never experienced in my career going, oh, you're the next this and you're that. And, oh, and we know you, you don't know anything about me.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Like, you don't know where I've come from. Like I'm a survivor and you're blowing sunshine up my ass because you think that I'm going to buy it. But the truth is I haven't gotten a compliment in eight years and I don't believe anything you're saying. It never affected me. Like it never, people were, I mean,

they would say things on mission. They were just like, you're so strong and amazing and skilled. And it was, it was just this glaze. I had this kind of glaze of like, almost like abused child glaze. So then what was the comment that you got where you actually were registered, where you're like, oh, this is meaningful.

You know what it was? I wasn't a person who grew up with a ton of confidence. This is confirmed, like this I know. So going into this industry, I did have this work ethic that was kind of built in. I have parents who work very hard and then, and then Jackie, right. And so you're, I'm surrounded by these people where it's like, you have to earn your way. There's no free lunch here. There's no like, you know, relying on, you know, your, your God given skillset or

looks or any of this stuff you have to work hard. So, okay. So I had that and it was like, almost like emotional cutting. It was like very punishing the way I went about things and like, okay, I'm just gonna work super hard. But I never felt like I had really gotten there. I had earned it. I was really worth much. I never felt that way.

And that's a problem, right? Because no matter what you're achieving, you still, it's never enough, but not in an obsessive way, in an internal kind of sad way. And so it wasn't until we were actually in Rome, I think it was our first day of filming. We were on the Tiber River.

We're speeding up and down. With the speedboat stuff? Yeah, Tom does everything, right? So he's manning the bum I mean, the whole thing. And so we had a guy like kind of crouched on the bottom. If we have, of course, if we had some like electrical failure or something, right? But he wasn't doing it, Tom was doing everything.

So it was me, it was the team, right? It was Tom, myself, Ving Rhames, and Johnny Reese Myers to run this boat. And we have a, you know, they're changing a lens or something, right? So we're at our ones and we're just sitting there in this boat and there's, it was so intimidating because there was maybe 5,000 people that had lined,

just to get a glimpse of him. Lined up on the side of the river, right. I mean, as far as the eye could see and you're like, holy shit, I'm standing next to a movie star. This is a movie star, like legit, like there's no question this man, like the power that he holds, I mean, next to a movie star. This is a movie star. Like legit, like there's no question this man, like the power that he holds. I mean, just a glimpse of him.

Like they were, it was crazy. So anyway, I'm sitting in this boat and it's a really intimidating day. Although I felt sort of like, no, I felt good about it and it was fine. And we're sitting in the boat and Tom's like, Maggie, tell me about your, like I haven't seen any of your US movies.

And I was like, I don't have any US movies. He's like, what? Yeah. And he goes, he's like, I don't understand. What do you mean? And I said, oh, um, this is, this is my first US movie. And his, he goes, you're kidding me. And I said, no, no, this is my first US movie. And he's like, I don't believe this. There's no way. He's like, Fing. And Fing's like on his phone or something. He's like, Fing, no, no, this is my first U.S. movie. And he's like, I don't believe this. There's no way. He's like, Ving? And Ving's like on his phone or something. He's like, Ving, get over here, get over here. And Ving's like, yeah, what's going on?

And he goes, this is Maggie's first U.S. movie. And Ving goes, no shit. And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, damn. He's like, Johnny, Johnny, you believe this? And he brings Johnny. It's like so embarrassing. So Johnny comes over and he's like, Johnny, this is Maggie's first U.S. movie.

And Johnny's like, really? No way. So everybody's having this conversation about me in front of me. And I'm like, yeah, that's it. And Tom's like, let me get this straight. Let me get this straight. You have not done a movie in the U.S. And then the first movie you do is like a $200 million monstrosity where we're on the Tiber River in Rome,

speeding up and down with this 200 man crew, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's your first experience. I said, yeah, that's right. And he goes, you know, Maggie, if you didn't tell me that, he goes, I would never know it. He's like, you act like you belong here. And I don't know where it came from. I looked at him and I said, I do belong here. And he looked at me and he said, you're goddamn right you do. That's fucking cool. Like, that's a moment. It was.

It was really like, I can't believe I just said that to him. I got chills just hearing that. Well, I'm like, where did that even come from? Like, I don't have the confidence to say that, but I know that I put in eight years of blood, sweat, and tears, literally, by the way. And I was there and I'm like, well, screw it. Like, why shouldn't I be here?

But that is not to say that I took it for granted where I thought I'm like, well, screw it. Like, why shouldn't I be here? But that is not to say that I took it for granted where I thought I was like special and like, oh, it had to be me. No, by the way, like, I don't care who it is. It can always be someone else. It doesn't have to be you. It doesn't have to be me. You know what I mean?

So it's keeping that in mind, I think that keeps it all into perspective for me in Hollywood. Right, that's such a good story. Yeah, this is really cool. Like I'm just trying to visualize it with all the people on the sides of the, you know, the river and you're in the boat and the whole thing.

It was a whole thing, yeah. Cause again, I don't even know where it came from. I didn't have what it took to say that to Tom Cruise. Well, clearly you were right and he was right because you're still here, right. You're still doing it. By the grace of God. So what happened with, I mean, that movie was enormous, but there were all these other mission movies

that came after that, right? Like what, there was some cast changes and how did we end up in, you know, all of them. Oh no, they called me for the other two after that. And I was on a show. I know, I know. When you're locked into a show. Yeah, yeah, they called me for the other two after that. And I was on a show. I know, I know. Was that Nikita? When you're locked into a show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they called again for five and I was on this other stupid thing I should have been on. And then I couldn't do it for that reason, which was like even worse because it was like something I didn't wanna be on. But you're sort of, you know, they kind of own your year and there's really nothing you can do.

That thing when you sign up for a show and that's it, right? Yeah, and that was it, you know, so. But own your year. And there's really nothing you can do. That thing when you sign up for a show and that's it, right? Yeah, and that was it, you know, so. But you've toggled back and forth between movies and TV, like pretty consistently. Yeah, I've been very lucky. I mean, I really haven't done much TV to be honest. Like Nikita was my first thing and I did it.

And then I did this one thing for one year and then I did Designated Survivor for three years. And like, that's been my experience. Yeah, it was, yeah. And that show's over now, right? Like did Netflix picked up that additional season? It was ABC and then Netflix picked it up. Yeah, for a third season.

But I was, you know, I wasn't contracted to do a show on Netflix. So I was like, this will be my last, I'm not. I don't wanna do this for 10 years. Please God. I know you just shot like a pilot for like a sitcom comedy, right? Which is cool, cause you're like fun

and you can be silly and all these things. But your screen persona is so gnarly. Oh, it is gnarly, yeah. She's badass, she can be intimidating. I'm scared to talk to her. Yeah, so I know it's super fun. I'm so excited actually to do a comedy. You know, it was funny because I did this little movie

called The Argument that came out on Netflix. And it was like this director, this young guy named Robert Schwartzman. You know who Jason Schwartzman is? His brother, yeah. Such a great guy. And I met with him and I don't, it was honestly, it was Robert.

Like I met with Robert and we were at a La Pan. We're sitting there like having a coffee for like three hours. And the whole time we talked about like, he's like, tell me the work you do with kids. And we were talking about like child advocacy. And then that was our whole meeting. It was kind of like dark and sad

and about all this stuff that goes on with kids in the US we're trying to combat. And then we left the meeting and he was like, no, you're definitely this funny person that should be in my movie. I'm like, wait, what? It was really funny, but because of him, the creator of the show saw that movie and she's like,

oh my God, that's my girl. Right, she's actually gonna be funny. So it only takes one person to see you as a certain thing. Because you know, Hollywood, they put you in boxes and that's where you stay. Yeah, do you know if the show get picked up? Well, no, soon, like in May, yeah. It's usually when they decide and then there's an upfronts,

but which there won't be because of COVID this year. Yeah, so the argument that was like, was not meant to be a Tribeca or? We were supposed to premiere a Tribeca and then it didn't, which was sad, but. Did it come out, cause I haven't seen that movie. Yeah, it came out on Netflix I haven't seen that movie. Yeah, it came out on Netflix.

Yeah, like everything else had to go straight to streaming. Cause it's just, you know, there's nothing we could have done. And then you did a horror movie too, right? I did, I did, yeah. Yeah, with Luke Hemsworth. Oh, yes, yes. Oh, he's so great.

What a great guy. I've met him. He's friends with a buddy of mine. I don't know him well, but I- Oh my God, he's such a great guy. And they're such a close knit group, those brothers. I mean, they just- They really are. It's so sweet to hear him talk about like,

they're just, they're best friends. And they really, they love each other so much. And like, he's really like, my brother is the greatest guys in the whole world. And they feel the same about him. And I'm like, wow, me and my sisters weren't like that. There's some intense bro energy. Well, they all lived in Malibu

and now they all live in Byron Bay. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But anyway, I mean, what a threesome. Yeah, they travel together. And also, you know what? Raised right. Because when you're around people who are raised right,

you just know. They seem like good dudes. Super like, super down to earth and just like connected and good to their wives and kind. And you're just like, wow, what a wonder. You root for them to be successful. You actually do. I mean, for some of them,

like they're so tall and good looking and everything. You're like, well, it's kind of unfair, but then you're like, no, you're actually a good guy. Like, I'm really happy about that. Cause there's plenty of guys who aren't good guys who make it really big and you're like, really? So it's nice to see that. We, we should mention that you brought Romeo your dog. He's wandering around.

Kind of worked out for him. Cause as I said, he got in trouble this morning. How many dogs do you have now? I have three. You do? Yeah, so I have like, didn't you have like eight at some point? I had eight at one point.

Yes, actually when Sean and I were doing Earthlings like that time I had eight. And it was actually Cesar Millan who had come over to my house. Cause I would have, you know, I rescued the big troubled, you know, rescue Shih Tzus. Like I rescue like pit bulls and, you know,

whatever German shepherds and all that sort of stuff. And the ones that have problems that people can't help. I'm like, oh, I can, I can handle this. And I couldn't. And I had these eight dogs and they were killing each other. And so I got Cesar Melante came over and he basically was like, put it all into perspective.

And he's like, you can't make a difference by taking them all home. Like if you wanna be an advocate for them and you wanna do like big picture stuff for them, that's what you do, Maggie. You take as many as like you're capable of and you leave the rest, you know what I mean? And I was like, this dude is so right.

He really, I mean, he was just like, because then you become a shell of a person, which you are right now, just like frayed at the ends. Yeah, that's another thing I've talked to Jean Bauer about, you know, as somebody who, you know, owns a sanctuary, it's like, you wanna rescue all these animals. You have this pull, this yearning, this call to action. You do. But at, you know, at some point, you have this pull, this yearning, this call to action. You do.

But at some point, at what cost? Like you can only do so much and you have to make peace with the fact that you can't rescue all of them. You can't do it all. And that on some level, like Farm Sanctuary operates as a symbol, right? Or as an opportunity to bring people in and educate them.

And onwards they go, hopefully. As much as it is about those animals themselves, right? And the thing is, if you try to do it all, you're also like, you know, not creating opportunity for other people to fill that space. Like you have to realize that like, you know, it's all kind of metaphysical, isn't it, right? You know, we sort of live in this life

and there'll be voids and there are people who will fill them and you have to leave the door open for that, right? And that is a thing and it does happen, but you have to believe that. Right, we were talking about this before the podcast that with, you know, baked into being that kind of empath is almost this feeling that you kind of have to be a martyr. Like it's not okay to actually thrive in the world, right?

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Like you can't be both and that's not true. And some of the people that I've become very friendly with and I'm close to are now investing in some of the biggest meat alternative companies and they're not, if I close the door on them, they're not vegan, they're not veg, they're not whatever,

but you don't close the door on people, right? You don't close the door on any opportunity because you can maybe have an effect in a way that you didn't believe was possible if you're not putting an expectation on someone that's your own. Well, it's such an interesting time. I mean, you've been doing this for 20 years,

I've been in it for 14 years. And the difference between then and now is like insane. It's insane. And at the same time with all the progress and all the kind of mainstream information and enthusiasm around this type of lifestyle and living more sustainably and more consciously, there's also, you know, on this point of meeting people

where they're at or not talking down to people, there's so much acrimony and infighting within these subcultures and communities. Oh, 100%. Vegans who are angry that, you know, that- The abolitionist versus reformist. Burger King has a plant-based burger and how we got to boycott them because they still use, they're still selling beef.

And it's like, you gotta celebrate these wins. I agree. And it's like, okay, like you're at a place in your life where you're not the customer for that Burger King plant-based burger, but there's so many other people that can benefit from that or that's their entry point. It's their entry point.

Being compassionate to that and putting out a welcoming mat for anybody, wherever they are. Anybody, meet them. Also, you create a bigger demand within those industries you don't agree with and who knows what that's gonna turn into. Like, you don't know.

You have to, yeah, you need all the voices. You need the hardcore radical person who's like- The PETA's and then the humane societies. And then you need the person who can work within McDonald's to create change from inside. I mean, I work with a group, I'm on the board of a group called social compassion and legislation.

We do a lot of legislative work up in Sacramento and it is the epitome of that, right? So you sort of like, you know, you're going into these meetings with these senators and assemblymen and people who can, you know, these are lawmakers. These are people that really essentially work for us, right? And, you know, I go there and I'm, you know, sort of lobbying senators and, you know, in this building and then there's no one there and I'm driving down Melrose and there's 40 people in line for lip gloss. And it bums me out because it's like,

we have so much influence. All you have to do is care. All you have to do is show up. Half of it's showing up, right? Life, gotta show up. And then once you show up, you really have to like be in those rooms with people that may not get it, but what you're gonna do

in those rooms can be pretty remarkable. Well, it's one thing to be a proponent of this lifestyle. And it's another thing to really shoulder that mantle and carry that responsibility to use like the platform that you have to advocate, you know, on behalf of these causes. So where does that like come from in you? Cause it would be very easy for you to be like, I'm just, I'm doing my movies.

I don't wanna make waves. Sure, it is much easier to do that. Yeah, I know, I know it, trust. So where's that, where does that pull come from? I kind of feel like it's almost not even a choice in that, you know, we live this very privileged existence, like in every way, right? And I mean that in things that I've earned, I mean it in things that I'm living, like, okay, I'm given my health. I have this like gift of health and I can walk and I function. So that's a gift. And, and then I've earned these other things where I work

in Hollywood and I have certain privileges and, and, you know, you, you, you start to develop a voice for certain things and it doesn't feel like a choice. It feels like a responsibility, you know, doesn't it? When you sort of, when you have a lot, how do you not, and it can be anything, you know, pick what it is that you sort of feel isn't right in your mind, in your heart, in your soul. And you go out there and you really, you fight for it. And you hope that other people will do the same when something matters to them,

because I'm sure you get this all the time. I've gotten it for 20 years. Like, oh, you don't care about kids. You don't care about women. You don't care about, you know, libraries. I don't know. Because you've chosen to advocate for one thing that's at the exclusion of other things that are important.

This is exactly, I'm like, you're so right. I hate children because I love the environment or whatever it is, you know? And it's sort of, there's always this line. And so it's always this thing of like, you know, I have people that, you know, write into me and go, you care more about homeless pets than you do about homeless children.

I'm like, interesting. And I said, I'm so glad that you care about homeless children. Well, I do. I said, well, tell me more. What do you do for homeless children? I'm fascinated. I wanna know. Nothing.

Crickets. Absolutely nothing. So I've never ever run into a person who puts themselves out there, who advocates for something they care about, regardless of what it is, who has ever criticized me. And I'm in rooms with women's rights activists, my human rights friends in DC. We all kind of look at each other and go,

thank you for what you do, because what you do matters in your lane and in your category. It's always people who do nothing, who have a ton to say about what you're doing. How often have you gone to Washington and done the Hill thing? God, I'm set to go this year.

I just got off a phone call yesterday because we have, you know, we're really on the move, on the march for more federal funding for some of the child protection stuff that I do. And it's just, it's really daunting when you look at sort of budgets and what our policymakers and lawmakers allocate for certain things and not for others, right?

And I sort of went down this rabbit hole many years ago where it was like my birthday weekend and there was this child abuse prevention summit that I went to in San Diego. And I was there for the weekend and the rabbit hole for me was huge because everyone was there. Everyone from the CDC to child protective services,

to forensic physicians, to law enforcement, everyone was there. So it was this think tank of how do we better protect children? And the CDC had done this presentation and to be very honest, it was really quite boring. And then towards the end, she busted out this sort of graph. And it was like almost like this Sputnik kind of chart

where at the center was abuse and neglect. And then everything that came from that, sort of armed off into all these different societal issues. And I remember like, that was like the moment where it just dropped for me, where I was looking at everything from suicide, to opioid addiction, to alcohol, to teen pregnancy, to high school dropouts,

everything that you can think of, like in the 80th percentile was stemming from- All tracks back to abuse in the home. Right, from when in your formative years, when you should be forming in the right way and you're being betrayed and taken advantage of. And so that was it. I mean, that was it for me.

It was just sort of like, I had read a couple things in the LA Times over the years. I remember eight years prior, I had read this story about this kid who was like tied to a chair by his mom and boyfriend, and he was beaten to death. He was six. And they had a file on him, you know, the Child Protective Services.

Like they were under investigation, but we're failing here, right? We're failing. And then eight years later, I read another story that was very similar with a mom and the boyfriend had killed this kid. He was like eight. I read another story that was very similar with a mom and the boyfriend had killed this kid. He was like eight. And the second time I had read about it, like that fury in me, like the same thing I have for the animals and all that sort of stuff in the environment.

I couldn't ignore it anymore because it was something I think it was very, like very, it just felt so personal. And I was so angry that we were failing kids. And these are the kids, by the way, that grow up to abuse their partners and animals and all the rest of it and not care because they've been so disenfranchised and they're in so much pain that there's nothing that they can care about outside of their own pain. And again, this is stemming from the very, very early years.

So I'm like, if I'm gonna make a difference in some of the stuff I'm doing, like we talked about earlier about getting them young, we really have to do everything we can do to protect them at this young age. And that means exploitation, means all the trafficking, abduction, abuse in the home, all of it.

And so I did, I got involved about four or five years ago and I have not stopped since. And so this year we're going into DC and we're really, we've got to get more money from the federal government for these programs because it's really the technology that's gonna protect these kids. Right, so what is the solution? Like where do you direct those funds

or what are the policy changes that can really move the needle? Policy's tough, right? Because if you depend on the federal government to do what you need them to do, you're gonna be waiting a very long time, right? So I work with a group of former police chiefs, federal agents who have created this group

called the ICAC COPS, is the Internet Crimes Against Children, Child Online Protective System. And this is a system that actually finds predators online. And so a lot of the money really goes to upping the technology, right? Because if you're talking about criminal activity, they're good at what they do, unfortunately.

They know what they're doing and they know, they're trying to figure out how you're detecting them. And they're trying to evade you at all costs because this is something that they are absolutely addicted to. And so you have to stay ahead of them and that takes money, right? And it takes technology and it takes manpower.

So, you know, it's yeah, DC this year is gonna be, you know. That's dark though. It's dark and it's something people don't take on. You have to create an emotional boundary around yourself too, I would imagine also. I'm telling you, you have to. Just to be able to, you know, deal. I'll tell you that this particular area of protection

that I work in is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I could, I'll jump off a building, I'll do whatever it is, you know, like making Earthlings with Sean and seeing what I saw and what humanity has done to animals at that time. And then now seeing what humanity does to each other, those are the two darkest times I think for me,

darkest stuff I've ever seen in my life. And the reality is it's happening. And this is not a subject celebrities are gonna take on. It's too dark. And it's actually not something I've ever talked about. Something I've done very quietly for a long time. I haven't heard you talk about this that much. I mean, it's all about-

I've never talked about it. Plenty on the animal rights stuff. Plenty on the animal rights stuff. For me, it's defenseless, right? It's defenseless lives. It's the same theme. It really is the same theme, right? I look at them as the same.

Protecting the people that can't protect themselves. This is what it is, you know? And it's, I don't know, I think like going back to what you said, it is a social responsibility. And if you have any kind of voice, I mean, look at what you've done, my God. If you have any kind of voice, you can truly, if it's authentic, you can really turn it

into something very special. I do believe that. So when someone comes to you and says, I have so much respect for what you're doing, or it's so courageous, but you have this platform, I don't have that, like, how can I get involved or how do I make my voice resonate more broadly? Sure, well, here's the thing,

you have to believe number one, because there are celebrities, as we talked about earlier too, who have platforms that don't work. I mean, there are big singers, they put in movies and no one goes and sees them and they have 60, 70 million Instagram followers. Like it doesn't translate in that way. Right. Or you could be a Gene Bauer who like was living in the city and finding a stray chicken lamb,

taking it into his townhouse. Yeah, exactly. And, and, and make this enormous splash. I mean, there was no, he didn't have a leg up. He had no money. I mean, they were really struggling at that time and they had a heart full of authenticity and compassion. And so, you know, it has to be real. And if it's real, I do believe you can create a platform. I don't care who you are. You can create a platform.

I mean, there are people with platforms who don't deserve them. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, that's a whole other thing. So if you really care and you stand for something, I do believe there's a lane for you for sure. Yeah, I wanna go back to the ocean stuff cause you've got this cool company, Keep Up,

that's all about ocean preservation and recycled making garments out of recycled plastic. So tell me about that. It's been so exciting because I didn't come out the gate going, yeah, I wanna be a business woman, or I wanna do it in this way. For me, it was advocating for the oceans for the last 20 years and working really closely

with some of the best and the brightest in ocean protection for so long. And I mean, really literally on the ground with them and in the trenches for like 15 years with them. I know what the issues are firsthand. And one of the big issues besides poaching and everything else we do to our oceans is this plastics pollutions issue.

It is a huge issue right now. And it's not stopping. And this is an industry where we created these plastics, which became a miracle, especially in the medical world for transport and all sorts of stuff. But we never regulated it because it was just something that was going to make so much money that we didn't care what the consequence was. So now here we are generations later dealing with the consequence of people who got very, very rich from creating this convenience. It's actually insane that single use plastics are legal. It's so incredibly irresponsible.

Even just like water bottles. Oh, it's crazy. Right? It's crazy. The amount of water bottles that get thrown out every single day and just end up where they shouldn't. Where they shouldn't. And that's really what it was. And a lot of these very large marine mammals

that are washing up and they're cutting them open and it is a really bad situation. And then obviously when that breaks down, the microplastics and everything else that's happening. So we're doing our ocean a massive disservice. And I started researching recycled materials about a decade ago. And although the technology was impressive,

the product wasn't up to par. Because for me, again, like we talked about earlier, like I'm not gonna take someone to a vegan meal or a vegetarian, whatever meal, if it's not the best meal they're ever gonna have. to a vegan meal or a vegetarian, whatever meal, if it's not the best meal they're ever gonna have. If it's not the best meal, this is the problem. And it's certainly, yeah, in fashion,

it's like, we all wanna make conscious choices and wear the sustainable cool stuff. But if it's ugly. But like, I mean, it's getting, now it's getting there. Getting there. But there was a long stretch where it was like, yeah, but I'm just not gonna wear that. Yeah, like if you're not like a full on hippie who has nowhere to go, who kind of like, you know what

I mean? Pitter patters around and does their thing. I mean, if you're a working professional, I mean, you got to look a certain way in certain environments and that wasn't available. You're so right. And so when I saw the technology and what they were doing with kind of the yarns and it was so cool, but it wasn't there. It just wasn't there yet. And I was like, I can't create something until we're at a level where I can create a product that's gonna be equivalent to the Nike or the this, or that that's out there where you're not making a sacrifice

to benefit our planet, right? Like, I don't want you to make a sacrifice. I want you to think it's good and it performs. And you wanna make that choice. It's that Elon Musk idea, like it's not enough to have an electric car. The car has to be better than all the other cars so that everybody wants it.

He's so remarkable. I mean, truly, like I look at his interviews and I sort of like, I listen in on his, when he speaks and as a businessman, just a straight businessman, I mean, he just makes so much sense in his approach. You know, you have to create a product that's, it can't just be better. It has to be way better than your competitor.

It has to be, you know, and I was very affected by that. Being open to criticism and hiring the right people, you know, all the things that he sort of advocates for when you start a business. He's bang on. I mean, obviously, clearly look at his success. He's got some crazy tweets out there too. He does. No, I mean, you're not going to get that without a level of crazy. It's just not going to happen. But at the same time, he does know how to build a business. And so for me, I'm just looking at sort of that element of what he does. And so I said, okay, all right, I'm going to come out with something that is the what he does. And so I said, okay, all right, I'm gonna come out with something

that is the best in its category. So, okay, obviously there's active wear out there, but we're the first 100% recycled line. And our quality is like second to none. Like there's no difference between what we've come out with and what's out there in a non-recycled version. So where do you get all the recycled material? Like how does it work?

So my dream, and I've been able to do it in the US and hopefully I'll be able to emulate this in other parts of the world. And we are gonna be able to do it in China, which is nice. But I wanted to create a company that was founded in the US, made in the US from US trash. That was the goal. 100% US garbage. 100% US garbage.

100% US garbage on 100% Americans. So they collect ocean plastics off of the Eastern seaboard and those plastics are then shipped to North Carolina and North Carolina that's where all the factories are. And so- But how do they get there? Do they troll it out of the ocean? They troll it, they troll, but they also, so oceans plastics,

I guess the literal definition is anything that's two miles out from the ocean and anything that's 10 miles out from the shoreline. Because anything that's, they've done the research. Between two and 10. Between two and 10. Anything that's within that two mile radius is gonna end up there.

And anything out there is something that we have access to. But three quarters of what's in the ocean has sank. So we're not even seeing what the actual, the biggest part of the problem looks like, which is actually very scary. Cause there's a lot of images out there that are already scary. And that's not even the bulk of the issue.

So that gets shipped, melted in North Carolina, flaked, and then turned into yarn. And that yarn is shipped here to LA. And then we make our fabrics in a fully integrated facility, vertically integrated, which means that everything happens under one roof. So we can control the quality. They dye there. They create the fabric there. I've walked the floor of every single one of our factories. I've talked to all of the workers. Everything's ventilated.

Everything's certified B. Everything is, you know, I mean, it's, people have paid vacations. They have health insurance. Like this matters. And if you're an owner of a company and you can't do that and you can't say that you've done those things and you know how your stuff's made,

then I don't know what you're doing. Most can and most don't. But I feel like that you were talking earlier about, how the young people have a voice now that they didn't use to in prior generations. And it's the young people who are driving the train in terms of making more conscientious, conscious consumer choices.

And they want full transparency. It isn't incumbent upon any corporation now to be transparent about all those things so that we can make an informed decision. And this is it, they wanna know and they wanna know from the ground up and they actually care, which is exciting. I mean, I sat with a group of like college kids

and they were asking me about the company and they were talking about like, well, you know, tell us more about, you know, not create, if you're creating a product, aren't you creating? I'm like, well, okay. So we're taking this trash, we're milling it into this. Our packaging is a hundred percent biodegradable and disappears within a year in a landfill.

There's no chemicals in it. We don't have hang tags. We heat press everything. Like there's nothing coming, even our mailers are biodegradable. So there's nothing coming off our product that's going into the trash can. That's not gonna-

And you're a B Corp. And yeah, exactly. So we did it because that's who we are, right? We didn't do it because it's like, Oh God, there's this, we built this company and now there's pressure to change. Again, I don't care why they're doing it. H&M, all these people, like if you're gonna do it,

great, do it. But we built a company with an incredible amount of integrity and it was really hard because it's not the easy road. It's more expensive. It's more time consuming. Like lead times on recycled fabrics are way longer. I mean, we can't turn over the way other companies do.

And I'm sure the margins aren't what they would be. I mean, H&M is successful for a reason. And I feel like there's a lot of companies that just pay lip service to the idea of sustainability. What's a buzzword? Like make, you know, just make our marketing green, you know, like literally the color. Literally the color is gonna throw the color green

and like Clorox does that. They put like green on their bottle. They feel better about it, but there's actually, you know, they're not making any real fundamental changes. Because it is hard to do it the way that you're doing it. It's really hard. And if it's not the spirit of what you do, you're gonna like do all make all these cosmetic changes,

right, where we're under the makeup, you still have bad skin, right? Just because no one's seeing it doesn't mean that the issue isn't there. And so that's why I encourage like young people, whatever middle-aged people, older people, like, you know, there's a lot we can learn from the younger generation.

And the fact that they do their research and they wanna know, we should be doing the same thing because everything that I've done, whether it's activism or business, I mean, WildAid is one of my biggest groups and I've been with them for like 16 years. We do consumer campaigns, right? And that's who we target. We target the regions who consume the most rhino horn, ivory, shark's fin,

manta, like we can't police the oceans. We can't police Savo and the Serengeti. We can't, it's too big. It's impossible. And so who are we gonna speak to? We're gonna speak to consumers, right? So in business, you can speak to consumers in a positive way and say, hey, put your dollar towards this, you're gonna make a positive change for these reasons. And on the flip side with the activism,

we're like, don't put your dollars towards this and you can make a really positive effect in this way and for these reasons. And so it's very powerful either way, but either way, you have to empower consumers. We are so powerful. I mean, if we wanted to shut down Walmart, let's say, tomorrow, we could do it. If we all just decided not going there, 40% of your workforce lives below the poverty line. You guys aren't paying people and they're full-time workers. That's disgusting. That's why I don't go there. But if we know these things, let's put our dollars

into businesses that aren't doing that. Should a full-time worker be living in poverty? No, not in any business. Right. The problem is that most people, yeah, you have this cohort of young people who care about this and are passionate about it and are thinking about this in a way that, people who are older aren't, but you also have a huge swath of the population that's just trying to, they're just trying to fucking make a living.

I get it. It's like Walmart is the only option. I know, and it's cheap. They got four kids at home and it's like, what you're telling me I can't go to Walmart? Like screw you. Sure. So we need both. It's like what you were saying earlier,

you need that consumer activation where we can like marshal that kind of incredible power. But we need systemic change and we need policy change at the highest level to prevent these things from occurring in the first place. That's a hundred percent it. These are not easy problems. Well, you have to hit it from all sides, right?

I mean, we passed the California cruelty-free cosmetics act and by 2023, California is gonna be, this is the fifth largest economy in the world. And we're no longer going to have animal tested cosmetics in the state. The cosmetic stuff is insane. It makes no sense. This is not life-saving anything.

This is so trivial. You have the kind of animal testing, but on top of that, all the toxins that are in all of those products that go completely unregulated. Yeah. It's insane. And this is it. But again, if you empower consumers to demand a certain thing,

your legislators and lawmakers are going to listen because they wanna please their constituents, right? And they also know that the young vote coming in is going to be massive for them. I mean, look how they target. I mean, you just look at patterns on both sides of the aisle. It's pretty obvious if you can spot patterns and you have that kind of mind. I mean, they are marketing to a group. That group's going to demand a certain

type of change. Now it takes us to go in there and say, well, let's make these changes. Let's start doing different policies. And that's what it is. Thank you. Speaking of policy changes, let's talk about, they're trying to kill us. Like our mutual friend, John Lewis is how we got connected. You're in that new movie. I've had John on the show a couple of times and Keegan as well.

And I'm pretty excited about this movie coming out. I'm not sure when it's gonna come out yet. They're still working on it. Yeah, when is it coming out? I'm pretty excited about this movie coming out. I'm not sure when it's gonna come out yet. They're still working on it. Yeah, when is it coming out? I'm so excited. I can't wait to just- We're still finishing it. They are, okay.

But yeah, it's gonna be epic. And it's all about food deserts and the, you know, the sort of imbalanced treatment that socioeconomically challenged communities are in with respect to access to good nutrition and the messaging around that, that is having a disproportionate effect on those populations and driving them

towards these chronic illnesses and resulting in many deaths. Many. So how did you get involved in the movie? Well, I think too, when he's talking about sort of these more disenfranchised communities and minority populations who are dealing with this, you're talking about many things.

You're talking about black and brown communities. You're also talking about like immigrant Asian communities as well, who are dealing with like, we gotta buy the cheapest thing. We have to make it like you were saying earlier. Well, the liquor store, the bodega on the corner is really the only viable option for a lot of people. You're right.

And the fact that, which they do highlight in the documentary that there aren't even grocery stores in some of these communities. There isn't a grocery store that you can walk to, right? There's fast food joints, there's liquor stores, there's everything in communities that will kill them. And that's all we give them access to. And the fact that they don't have the voice or the power

to speak out against what it is. And if it's all you've ever known, you don't even know that there's anything to speak out against, right? I mean, and how sad is that? And they, on the other, on the flip side, you know, with the things they're actually buying, you know, we have been on every level marketed to within an inch of our life. And I don't understand why people aren't truly making that connection between being marketed to and whether they personally care about you.

Does that make sense? Like people get like, they get really aggro about like, you know, if you attack their food, if you say, well, that's not good for you. And they get very upset as if it's something personal and you're going, no, no, no. All I'm telling you is that, you know, they don't care about your health.

So you probably have to make different choices. But I feel like it's a similar dynamic if you were telling someone that their boyfriend was cheating on them or something. They're like, how dare you? How dare you like mess with like the thing that I know, the thing that I'm comfortable with that matters to me. Meaning in other words, that's myopic to the fact

that you've been actually manipulated to have this opinion about this certain kind of food or lifestyle. Right. Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm saying. Okay, for example, I was in Wisconsin many years ago and I've never, I mean, I've been on, but I've never watched the, it's called the view, the view, right? Yeah.

That show the view. I'd never seen it and I was, I had woken up. I see where this is gonna go. Oh, here we go. Go ahead. So I woken up and I turned on the TV and I had woken up. I see where this is gonna go. Oh, here we go. So I woken up and I turned on the TV, I was in a hotel and it came on and they're talking and this is early view. This is like years and years ago. I think it was very popular and I think just started.

So it was the original cast of characters. Like Whoopi and Barbara. Right, right, yeah, yeah. And the blonde Republican woman and the, you know what I mean? They had like everybody, everyone from every walk of life, whatever it was. And I didn't know really anything about the show. Turn it on and they're kind of talking, talking, talking.

And I'm walking to the restroom and I hear Whoopi Goldberg say, and the PCRM, and I'm like, what? And I saw, and do you know Neil Barn Goldberg say, and the PCRM, and I'm like, what? And I saw, and do you know Neil Barnard? Yeah, of course. So, you know, I've worked with Neil, I've worked with the PCRM for years.

You know, we do so many projects and things together. And I just stopped me on my tracks. I went, oh my, oh my God, could it be that The View is talking about a group that matters? You know, like a really like important group that's really unsexy that no one ever really talks about, but they should be. And I stop and I'm like, oh my God, this is so exciting.

Grab the remote, turn it up. She says the following. She says, she's driving back to her house in Malibu. And I guess PCRM had erected this billboard on the way to Malibu. And I guess PCRM had erected this billboard on the way to Malibu. And it was a pack of cigarettes. And instead of cigarettes, it was hot dogs coming out of the cigarette pack.

And it said, you know, 20, 20 quarter of all cancers or. Sort of a page out of the PETA playbook. Right, right, PETA playbook, exactly. But they actually have the science because they are a group of doctors and scientists who are saying, yeah, our independent studies have shown that almost a quarter of all cancers come from smoked, cured and processed meats, right?

Fact, Time Magazine is saying this now. The NIH is saying this now. United Nations did reports on this now. And this is at a time when none of these mainstream agencies or publications were saying anything about any of this, right? So PCR had already known all this, blah of this, right? So PCRM had already known all this, blah, blah, blah. So they just billboard. And she says, so I'm driving back to my house and I'm going to Malibu or whatever it is. And she sees this

billboard and she was so angry. And she said, how dare the PCRM put up a billboard like that? She's like, how dare you tell me not to eat hot dogs? She said, you know what, PCR rep? She's like, I'm gonna eat more hot dogs. And then she said something like, and I'm gonna give my grandkids hot dogs. I'm gonna give my grandkids more hot dogs now that you're telling me not to eat hot dogs.

And I just, my heart just fell into my stomach. And then the blonde chick, I don't even know her name. She says, I know, I can't believe they did that. And during baseball season. Right, cut to a commercial by, you know, Tyson Foods. Well, like is she getting paid by Oscar Meyer? Why are you defending them? Like when they do billboards that like have a ticker tape

about how many people are dying from alcohol abuse or cigarettes or- But Maggie, this is the American way. Isn't it? You can't criticize my lifestyle choice. Like that's the problem, right? Like, so that goes to the heart of like, what does it mean to be an American or what are my values?

And doesn't it? And that disconnect between like, just take it for what it is. Right. This food is not good for you. Well, he's offering information too. He's not telling you how to live. Nobody's trying to take your liberties away from you. Well, this is what I'm saying. And if you're telling me that almost a quarter

of all cancers are coming from this, you're also telling me that cancer is coming from cigarettes and all the rest, I'm not mad about that. I mean, it's- I mean, in the movie, What the Health, the thing that, it was the same thing. Like, isn't there a scene where they do the same thing? They put cigarettes in the hotdog bun or something like that. In the movie, what the hell, the thing that, it was the same thing. Like, isn't there a scene where they do the same thing?

They put cigarettes in the hotdog bun or something like that. And that was what provoked all the ire and a huge backlash. And I'm sure Keegan did it on purpose, knowing that would happen, because that becomes a talking point and gets more people to pay attention to the movie.

But people don't like that. I know, but let's have a healthy discourse about it. Like let's talk about it, right? If you're angry, tell me why you're angry. And then I'll tell you why I care and wanna provide this information. And that's really all it is because we all know for a fact that when you feel better, you do better.

And there's a residual effect to that feeling, you know? And when we're sick and dying and we're in the state of chronic disease that we don't belong in, you know that people aren't in a place where they can do better, not only for themselves, but for others. It's just, there is an effect.

It does matter. You know, and I mean, I have a supplement company and we center on gut health and we talk about diet and changing diet and probiotics and what they mean and why they mean. And it's funny because like, you know, I mean, I would say in anything I do in my career, I would say that makes me the happiest when people say,

I feel better than I've ever felt in my life. And I want more people to my life. And I want more people to do this. And I want to change more people's diet. And I'm going to then go to my family members and my significant other or my coworkers and say, hey, this really worked for me. You've got to eliminate some stuff from your diet and be better and do this and that. That to me matters more than anything because you make someone feel better. Yeah. And what I like about it is your approach is you're passionate, but you're also not overly dogmatic.

Like you're a probiotic company. You partnered with our friend, Frank Lipman. Yeah. Who like is not vegan. No. And I always have, I know we were talking about this before. Like I always have these spirited arguments. They're great.

Because he can't wrap his head around. No. Like why I would be vegan. No, be vegan or why I keep doing this. He's like, you're still vegan? Like, I don't know. And he's my doctor. And as I said, I have another doctor who's exactly the same as Frank.

Although he told me not too long ago that he was moving more in the plant-based direction. I don't know if he'll ever get there. But like my point being you partnered with a doctor who doesn't necessarily co-sign your dietary perspective. That's exactly right. He's an integrative medicine doctor and he's a great guy and he helps a lot of people.

I love Frank. He sure does. Yeah, he really does. At what point, I think at some point, like the dogmatic approach works at cross purposes with a larger goal. And we're fighting on the margins about like whether honey is vegan or not, when most people, to bring it back to,

they're trying to kill us, are lining up at Burger King and killing themselves unnecessarily. And this is where our focus and our attention should be. That's it, on the broader, more important things that are gonna change the masses things that are going to change the masses and that are really going to create systemic change because the demand is there, right? Educating people enough to where we can create that demand, I think is everything.

And not discounting, as we talked about earlier, it's very important not to discount anyone, where they are, what they do, how they live. It's not okay. Everybody is where they are. And anyone who, you know, wasn't raised this way or who didn't, you know, really understand the lifestyle until they tried it and it worked for them and they're happy with it. None of us can deny that we were ever in that place. We were absolutely in that place. Yeah. And no one wants to be told what to do or lecture to. And if there is a, you know, like going back to the PCRM billboard, like the reaction on the view is, comes from this idea that you're, they're being talked down to, you know? Well,

and, and here's what's even more fascinating than any of it is whatever reaction you are choosing to have is you. It has nothing to do what's being told to you. Absolutely nothing. Because you can choose to take it however you want to take it, right? You can look at that and go, hey, that's interesting information. I really appreciate that. I'm going to look it up. I'm going to read a little more on that because I didn't know that. And that, okay, that's a certain person. But if you wanna make a choice to be defensive about it, gauge how open your door is or your window. That's you.

Well, that applies to everything right now. Literally everything. As we become so siloed in our respective information sectors and the most obnoxious thing you can say to somebody become so siloed in our respective information sectors. And the most obnoxious thing you can say to somebody is like, I did my research, you do your, you know. Sure, yeah. There's a lot of that. And obviously we see this in politics,

but that applies to- Everything. Yeah, of course. I mean, even in relationship, it's like I may hear something from my partner that I don't wanna hear and it may adversely affect me inside, but at the same time-

Welcome to being in a relationship. Right, but at the same time, when I can remove my wound from the situation and look at it objectively, it is always something I can do better. Always. But you have to have self-awareness around that wound. True, true.

Well, you have to know you're coming from a wound. Otherwise you're just reacting impulsively. Correct, right. So, and as a female, I'm a very emotional female. There may be females out there who aren't as emotional as I am, but I would say we're the emotional contingent of the two. And for me, I always say to my friends,

I say, don't do the thing you're good at, right? So I'm very emotional. I'm an empath. I have all these things. Like I'm already good at that. I don't need to do that. What I need to do is remove the wound or at least put the wound aside

and be able to look at what's happening, what's in front of me, very logically, and have a different perspective on it. Because I can have an emotional reaction to it. That's normal. That's who I am. But I don't wanna be who I am. I'm already good at who I am.

I wanna be better than who I am. So for you, what is that wound? I think I would say at the heart of it, it would be probably worthlessness. That's so interesting. Yeah, I would say that's the crux of everything. Because going from a person who was at one point really defensive to a person now who like

is completely open to criticism and invites it is night and day. I can't even tell you. And it also, the growth is also night and day because when we get stuck in our story and like you can tell yourself whatever story you want. I mean, you can be a six and tell yourself you're a 10 and you're gonna get everything a 10 gets,

but you can also be a 10 and tell yourself your entire life that you're a four and you will be there. You will not move past that point. So what is it that you did to climb that mountain? I think a lot of reading has helped me a lot. I mean, there are certain people who have perspectives. There's a book called, Letting Go. There's another book called, The Untethered Soul.

That's really ultimately about freedom, right? And when you think about freedom as it were, as an internal concept, we can be prisoners of whatever we feel we're going to imprison ourselves behind. But we also, the human mind and the human spirit is so resilient and so incredible that if we decide to make those changes, they're made. They are absolutely going to happen. And so there's no more excuses in my life where if something's not happening, that it's someone else, number one, someone else, something that I didn't invite or something that I can't change. There's just, there's no, if you lived your life in any situation that you're in, whether it's a

fight with your wife or husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever it is, a friend, a coworker, and you always look at yourself and try to take the road from what you feel to your wound, whatever it is, whether it's worthlessness or ego or vanity, whatever it is, you will find that connection and you will understand that it is you. Yeah. And that's hard to take. That's a very AA thing. I've been in recovery for a long time.

But yeah, essentially you do an inventory over a situation and you identify what your part is. Absolutely. And that part generally tracks pretty closely with some character defect that is created by some wounding or some pain that dates back as far as you can remember. It's really true.

And you're gonna attract lessons and teachers and people who come into your life to hold that mirror up to you and say, well, you don't like this about me, well, guess what? Well, the more you ignore or deny that this is a thing, the more it's gonna come up and the sort of repercussions of that are gonna continue to escalate

until the universe has your attention. Until you've learned that lesson. There's a philosopher, his name's John Demartini. And he says, whatever we run away from, we run into. So there's really no, I mean, you've gotta solve it at some point, right? And solving it is you. It's always you. But here's the thing about energy

that's exciting about this. As hard as it is to hear the things that you don't want to hear and make the changes you want to make, if you're always focused on yourself, you don't have to do anything to see the changes in the person or the situation around you. It will happen by virtue of you changing, right?

That's a universal truth. That's a spiritual truth. 100%. It's a spiritual truth and it is a game changer and it is foolproof. There's no way you change your energy and you say to yourself, I've really got to fix this problem in me and that around you the energy doesn't change.

Impossible. The problem is most people are externally focused and they think, well, if I just trade up on my relationship to this other person, that's gonna solve the problem. But that's tantamount to just keeping the blinders on. And it's a mechanism to avoid having to look at yourself in that way.

Well, that is what it is. Because what is looking at ourself? It's painful. No one wants to be in pain. No, it's the worst. It's the worst, but guess what? But the pain is what gets you to do it. But here's the thing, we're always in pain, right?

So it doesn't matter. It's just sort of like, you can either put the bandaid on or you can go deep and you can have many years where you're in a lot less pain than you are now. Yeah. If you focus internally. Was there something that like, was this just a slow evolution for you

or did something happen that made you do a little bit more internal work than you would have preferred? I think it was, well, number one, it was definitely a slow evolution because it was like book after book, after book, after, you know, talk about a journey. I mean, you really have to journey

and take what it is that you learn and apply it. So it's not just about like being a bookworm or being intelligent. You have to have an take what it is that you learn and apply it. So it's not just about like being a bookworm or being intelligent. You have to have an EQ, you know, high enough to absorb what it is that you're doing and being able to assimilate it into your life and then enter your actions. But I think that as a young person

and then going out there in the world as a teenager and having like sort of to make it on my own, there was a lot of pain I think that I carried and a lot of forgiveness that had to go on in my life. And part of that journey to forgiving the people in my life that I felt I needed to forgive was understanding them. And that was really it for me when I realized that, and I really don't know what did it, but I went, well, if I can't have a perspective on the why of who they've been to me in my life, then I'm never going to be able to forgive them with a whole heart, right? Because without understanding, how are you going to forgive, right? I can't,

because then it's a surface, it's a bandaid. It's a, yeah, yeah, I forgive you because I wanna feel good in this moment. But if I really understand where you came from and now that you had no choice in it, not that you, but we know that life is hard. We know that being in the body is difficult, right? And being in the mind is even more difficult.

And so if you can really, you know, look at the pattern of someone's life and say, well, they got to this point with no tools. And then without those tools, outwardly express themselves the way they did, because there was just nothing, you know, it's like having all like the sheet rock and the this and the wood and everything.

And you're like, I'm ready to build my house. And there's not a nail in sight. There's not a hammer in sight. Like it's nothing's gonna happen. And you rained on. So, if you can recognize that people don't have the tools, it takes a lot of stress off of taking things personally. Right, but forgiveness is tough because it requires you,

like there's for a lot of people, identity is built on this resentment that you hold towards how this person or family member wronged you in a certain way. And it's scary to let go of that because what would that mean? Like then suddenly I have to take responsibility for this or if I forgive them, yes, maybe I'll feel better.

But this whole construct upon which I've kind of crafted how I see the world and myself crumbles. Well, that's what it is because you don't get to be a victim anymore, right? And it's being a victim is a really safe place to be because there's always an excuse for why things aren't working out. And there's a dopamine hit with it.

There's a dopamine hit with it. It can be very intoxicating to like indulge in that. Indulge in that, and it is, and people do it. And that's why they turn to alcohol and drugs the way that they do. But I think one thing that you just said that's really important is that, I think that people view forgiveness as letting someone get away with what they did, right?

Like it means if I forgive you, it's okay what you did. It's not even remotely true. Forgiveness is your own personal freedom. And that's all it is. You no longer are held by this act or this person because the truth is the act, whatever it was they did to you is over, right? It's never gonna happen again, cause it's done.

The only thing you take with you is the emotion. So you're carrying that emotion with you your entire life. And then there's a point where you go, I have to let go of this emotion because I need my freedom back, right? Right, I mean, you're the one who's suffering. That other person may be completely unaware. They might not even know that.

Yeah, so basically you're punishing yourself. You're punishing yourself your entire life. So do you want your personal freedom, right? Can you have faith in the process that if you forgive someone and you have that freedom, you're going to gain the thing that you couldn't see, that which you have a belief in that you never thought was possible.

It's only possible once you truly forgive. I'm a big advocate for forgiveness. I think it is the most healing emotion you can have. And the only emotion that's light enough to live with. Right. Well, look at you, you could be a therapist. I may like sign up right now. If this acting thing doesn't work out,

Tom Cruise, whatever. Go into like forgiveness advocacy full time, full time. Yeah, it's a journey, isn't it? Because it doesn't matter who you are. There's somebody or something you have to forgive. Yeah, everybody. And it's easier to do that than hold on. I wish people would do it more, honestly.

But we dilute ourselves into thinking the easier path is to hold onto it. Like there's the power of that, right? Well, the ego is complete, I think, with the human body, like in the human mind. Like we, again, back to patterns, right? You see these patterns with people where it's like, where are they holding onto their ego?

Like, what is it? Which part of their ego is holding them back? And what is it that they value most where that their ego is driving, is like taking that train, it's left the station and you can't pull them back from that, right? So identifying that is key because you can't really be free

if there's ego behind anything. You really have to, I think it's a constant battle for me. It's a daily battle of looking at something. If I'm saying something to someone, if there's advice I want to give, it's like, what is this rooted in, Maggie? Is it rooted in like you having more knowledge? Is it rooted in you being right? Is it rooted in how someone's going to perceive you? Like, what is that? Or is it completely genuine? And if it is, great. Is that process, do you think that process is easier or harder for you given your public profile?

Like when you're a celebrity or you're on billboards and all that kind of stuff, obviously it's very easy for your ego to get outsized. But that also brings it up. Like it puts, it makes it very present. Like, oh my God, like my ego, my attachment to this identity and how other people see me and my future, you know,

career trajectory in Hollywood. Like that makes it like you're in the business of ego. Right? So you're forced to confront it in a certain way in a manner that like a normal civilian wouldn't. So to me, it feels like it can go like, because it's so present in your life, it can either really go horribly wrong

or it compels you to face it and work through it so that you can have a healthier approach to life. I think luckily, as far as the Hollywood thing goes, I think my saving grace in Hollywood like has been like that worthlessness, that feeling of like that void, that thing that I can't fill. Right, because if I'm like in the Tiber with Tom Cruise

and I still feel like, then really there's something that I need to look at there. If I'm like in the Tiber with Tom Cruise and I still feel like, we're more like, then really there's something that I need to look at. Right, so then- It doesn't make any sense. Right, and so that's a struggle. And then I think in the personal, that's where my ego has been tested the most.

Like not professionally, but actually personally, because I think you get into relationships and it's funny because when you love someone, for most people, it's more important to be right than it is to have peace. Yeah. Right. And, and I don't think that's worth it. Right. And there was a time where it was just such a, you know, as, as somewhat volatile person where that really was where I was just such a somewhat volatile person where that really was where I was at. It was like, I think for most of my life, I felt wrong. I felt like I didn't belong.

I didn't deserve. I did all these things, right? So wherever I had the power to have that, I wanted it. Whether that was gonna be in relationship or friendship, whatever it was, like I was gonna take my power back in that specific area. And that's all ego, right? Because, but it's also, you know,

the only time that we really, and someone said this to me, this is not mine, I wish it was, but the only time we really get offended or defenseless and it really affects us is when something affects our self perception, right? Or there's just enough uncomfortable truth in it that it pushes that button.

It pushes that button because like, there's something I perceived about myself that is now being messed with. And that self perception is so strong, where it's like, oh, okay, let's say I'm Maggie and I'm like the happy person, right? And then somebody said to a coworker of mine, you know, she's a little grumpy the other day. And you hear that, and you're like, what?

I'm not grumpy. It's messing with my self-perception. I see myself as a very happy person. And so how dare he say I'm not a happy person? I'm happy 99% of the time. And why would he perceive me like that? Why does it matter? Why does it matter how someone's perceiving you?

That's your own self-perception that's protected by ego. Yeah, you're holding onto this identity that you're a happy-go-lucky person that gets along with everybody. That's being challenged. That's right, that's being challenged. But isn't it amazing that that's something that, to your point, we've built up.

I built that about myself. No one's like, no one's happy all the time. No one's fair all the time. No one's any of these things all the time. So to even have a self-perception that allows for that is all eco. Like how can you call yourself one thing? That's ridiculous.

So it's interesting breaking down the self-perception. That I think has been the hardest thing. Self-perception in my personal life, not even in the public. Like for me, I sort of come to terms with, you're never gonna please the public. It's too big, it's too vast. There's too many categories, too many opinions.

Like I feel really sorry for the people who, I have friends, celebrities who like, they're on the Instagram. They're reading all this stuff. Oh my God, I can't even imagine. I'm like, are you kidding me? No wonder you're always anxious and in a tailspin. They're always thinking about, I don't read any of that.

It seems like you learned all that when you were overseas though. Like you had to learn that the hard way before Instagram became Instagram. I was like that when I'd be up for like a big commercial campaign, I wouldn't get it. And my agent would call or my manager and she'd say, oh, I'm really sorry, they gave it to someone else.

I'm like, okay. And she's like, oh, it was a really big job. And I'm like, yeah, okay. What am I gonna do? What is my fear or frustration or anxiety going to contribute to a situation that was never mine? Right, but if you're in that, to use your description of feeling this worthlessness,

the undeveloped soul will crave affirmation of that worth. Like, tell me why I didn't get it. Tell me all the things I did wrong. And like, oh yeah, see, I am worth like you're affirming. Were you looking for proof? You're affirming that. Yeah, sure. And that's what traumatized people do.

They look for proof all the time. And that's why when you're in a relationship with a traumatized person, I mean, any relationship, intimate or business, whatever, if you're looking for proof, you're in a relationship with a traumatized person, I mean, any relationship, intimate or business, whatever, if you're looking for proof, you're gonna find it, right? So if you wanna feel a certain way, no matter what someone says, they can be like, hey, you want a coffee?

And you're like, why'd you ask me like that? I mean, there's always something to look for that proves to you, I knew it. I knew he didn't like me. I knew he wasn't happy I was here. I knew she didn't care about me. Right. You know, whatever it is.

You're just pushing everyone away. That's a, it's a prison that I know I've lived it. I don't live it anymore, thank God. But like, I know it really well. And I think that, I think it's something that is the great equalizer. I think we all at some point in our lives are looking for that proof.

Some people look for proof that they're amazing, like they think they are and they become very successful. So it does turn out well for some people, I have to say, even if they're delusional. I mean, it's kind of like the fake it till you make it mentality, but I mean, they have the smarts to back it up. I mean, they obviously can. It is funny how the human mind,

well, like if somebody just carries themself, like they know what they're doing, like we'll just get on board with that. Well, you know that whole thing when you walk into a place that you're not supposed to be in. I mean, you know, those people that broke into the White House, right, when the Obamas were in the White House and they just walked through the front door. Right.

No one even checked their names. They were like, we're here for the party. And, you know, likewise, if Tom Cruise walks into a room, like everybody, you know, it's like, I'm sure there's a crazy energy with that. Crazy. That that guy's carrying. Yeah, the room goes completely silent.

Yeah. There's an attention to that, which walked into the room that's complete. To that, right. You know, like there's no attention to that, which walked into the room that's complete. You know, like there's no mistake who it is. Well, I do think that you should start a psychology podcast. This is gonna be your new thing. This is my new thing.

I just, I've always sort of like the way that I've moved in life with friends or whatever, like I'm figuring out- Are you the friend that your friends call up who need to be talked through something? A hundred percent. Yeah, I can see that. But that's also because I have compassion, but I also, I do have a logic to,

and I will tell you if there's- You can give the feedback. Right, if you're making a move that's not good for you, I'm gonna tell you because I love you. I mean, if I didn't love you, I wouldn't care to have the conversation. But I just, I think that for me, because I've struggled in the way that I've struggled.

And when I see people I love struggling, I don't want that for them. Yeah, of course not. And so I'll do anything that I can so that they don't have to feel the things that I've felt. Right. And that's it with all of it, animals, environment feel the things that I've felt. Right. And that's it with all of it, animals.

Being the best kind of empath. Right, exactly. Channeling something that's actually worth something. Yeah, cool. So you sit in a room and you just feel bad all the time. Like, what's the point? No, nobody wants that. There actually is no point.

Nobody wants that. All right, well, let's wrap this up. That was, you're amazing. That was fun. How inspirational, that was really fun. Yeah, I really enjoyed that. And Romeo enjoyed it too, clearly. He did, I know.

He's the chillest German Shepherd I've ever seen. Mostly, we were talking about this before, like most German Shepherds are very kind of like manic. They can't make eye contact really. And they're always kind of circling and pacing around. But I think he's also just swimming and being the only dog right now. Cause I have another shepherd mix at home.

And then I have a little terrier named Don Julio. And as you might imagine, Don Julio gets a lot of attention. Yeah. He's ridiculous. And so I think he feels a little like. Romeo's getting, yeah, he needed this today. And he's getting all his man fill, so many men here. He's just like, yes. He loves, he's with me all the time.

Well, he's welcome anytime. Oh, that's awesome. Okay, well, he's coming back then. Cool, we'll come back and talk to me again sometime. Well, let's do it. That's super fun. Yeah, so fun. In the meantime, Maggie's easy to find on the internet, at Maggie Q everywhere.

Keep up, Q-E-E-P, is it keepup.com? It's keepupnation.com. Keepupnation.com. Yeah. And anywhere else you wanna direct people, point people. I mean, Keep Up Nation would be awesome because we have a blog about food and health and lifestyle. And we have a lot of veggie recipes

and different things on there and self-care tips. And Frank Lipman as well, our buddy, has also given a bunch of like anti-aging, all kinds of stuff on there. You know, we're just talking about stuff that we hope people wanna know about. And the information is free. You don't have to buy anything.

Just go to the blog and read some of the stuff we're doing because it's only gonna benefit you. Cool. Yeah. All right. Okay. That was a's only gonna benefit you. Cool. Yeah. All right. Okay. That was a delightful experience. Thank you so much.

This is the most professional podcast atmosphere I've ever been in. It's hard to be a pimp. Gotta step it up, man. It's hard out there for a pimp, huh? All right. Peace. Thank you.

Thanks for listening, everybody. For links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube. Sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends

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Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis. Portraits by Allie Rogers and Davey Greenberg. Graphic elements courtesy of Jessica Miranda. Copywriting by Georgia Whaley. And our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt,

Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. You can find me at richroll.com or on Instagram and Twitter at Rich Roll. I appreciate the love. I love the support. I don't take your attention for granted. Thank you for listening. See you back here soon.

Peace. Plants. Namaste. Thank you.