The Rich Roll Podcast - Mirna Valerio Is A Beautiful Work in Progress: Thoughts On Body Positivity, Self-Empowerment & Owning Your Truth

Episode Date: January 11, 2018

What is a runner? How do we define an athlete? What does it truly mean to be fit and healthy? Challenging stereotypes, today's guest demands that we broaden our limited definition of these terms. She may not be fast, but she runs. In fact she runs a lot, an impressive slew of ultramarathons to her name. She's also not skinny. In fact, she's big. 250 pounds big. But Mirna Valerio is without a doubt a runner. In fact, the force of nature affectionately known as The Mirnavator is one of the most inspirational athletes I have ever met — a true ambassador of sport on a mission to empower women of all shapes and sizes to proudly embrace their bodies, expand their horizons, and own their truth. Carrying herself with grace, an intelligent self-confidence and a smile so gleeful it brightens all in her path, Mirna's appeal has less to do with her ability to run long distances and everything to do with her unapologetic celebration of her personal truth. Mirna's joyful self-acceptance is both real and rare. It's both authentic and bold. It's as infectious as it is inclusive. And it's incredibly empowering to the millions of people who suffer body shame issues silently. When she’s not running, the Brooklyn native (now living in the North Georgia Mountains with her husband and teenage son) is a Spanish teacher, diversity practitioner, cross-country coach, and author of the wildly popular blog Fat Girl Running. She also writes frequently for Women's Running Magazine and recently released a remarkable memoir I thoroughly enjoyed entitled, A Beautiful Work In Progress*. She’s been profiled in the Wall Street Journal and Runner's World and on NBC Nightly News. She’s also an ambassador for a variety of brands like REI, Merrell, Skirt Sports and Swiftwick. Just this week Mirna became one of the faces of JC Penney’s newly launched Here I Am campaign I first came across Mirna’s story by way of a mini-documentary produced by REI called The Mirnavator that went viral. Hooked, I was determined to share her powerful story with you. Mirna more than delivered. Much like past episodes with Josh LaJaunie, Adam Sud, David Clark and my most recent episode with Charlie Jabaley, this is an incredibly inspiring underdog every person story. But unlike those tales, Mirna's journey is not one marked by dramatic before and after photos. On the contrary, this is a story about body acceptance and body positivity. It's a conversation about self-empowerment and self-acceptance. It’s about tackling stereotypes, overcoming prejudice and the importance of inclusion. And it's an exchange about the need to redefine how we think about and define athleticism, the spirit of sport, and fitness in general. But more than anything, this is a conversation about owning your truth. I adore Mirna and I absolutely love this conversation. I think you will too. Please stick around to the very end for a treat. In addition to her impressive accomplishments, Mirna is also an extremely talented, Julliard-trained opera singer. I was able to convince her to take us out with her angelic, etheral voice. It's insane! Peace + Plants, Rich

Nothing happens overnight. So know that whatever you are changing, whatever you're doing, whatever your goal is, it is going to be a journey. There will be moments of just of joy and amazement, and there will be moments of awfulness and where you just have to sort of be in the trenches and do the work.

But that has tremendous implications for success. Find something that you might be interested in, that maybe you think you can't do, or maybe someone has told you you won't be able to do that. And goddammit, do it anyway. That's Myrna Valerio, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. What do you know? How's it going? What's the good news? My name is Rich Roll. I host this thing. It's called a podcast, my podcast. Welcome.

I appreciate you for tuning in today. Before we get into this conversation, I want you to take a minute and conjure in your mind's eye a runner. What does that runner look like? What image occurs to you? Is it a skinny white guy, perhaps maybe an even skinnier Kenyan? I don't know, uh, what that looks like for you, but I think I can promise you that today's guest defies whatever stereotype of a runner is in your mind right now. Uh, she's not fast. She's not trying to be fast. And despite having conquered a pretty impressive slew of ultra marathons, she's not skinny and she's not trying to be skinny either. And rather than hiding or shying away from this fact, the fact that she's big, 250 pounds big, 250 pounds big, she owns it. And she owns it with a big, bright smile across her face, but make no mistake. Myrna Valerio is definitely a runner. And I think she just might be one of

the most inspiring runners that I have ever met. And that's because she's real because her joy, her love of running is so obvious and it's infectious. And it's because she owns her story. She's owning her truth unapologetically. And that level of self-acceptance is courageous. It's bold and incredibly empowering, particularly in the context of millions of people who suffer silently in deep shame over body image issues. So who is this person, Myrna Valerio? Well, when she's not running, Myrna, who is a native of Brooklyn, New York, who now lives in the North Georgia mountains with her husband and teenage son, is a Spanish teacher. She's a diversity practitioner. She's a cross-country coach. And she also writes frequently for Women's Running Magazine and recently released a pretty remarkable memoir called A Beautiful Work in Progress that you guys should all check out.

I really enjoyed it. Myrna has been profiled in the Wall Street Journal and Runner's World and on NBC Nightly News. She's also an ambassador for a wide variety of brands like REI, Merrill, Skirt Sports, Swiftwick. And just this week, I saw on her Twitter feed, she announced her involvement with JCPenney in a campaign that they recently launched called Here I Am, which is pretty cool. And I got a couple more things I want to say about Myrna before we dive in. But first... before we dive in, but first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life.

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recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. TheMirnaVator.com. Okay. The Mirna Vader. I first came across Mirna's story in a mini documentary on YouTube that was produced by REI called The Mirna Vader. And I was just hooked. I was blown away by her story. And I knew that I had to get her on the show and it took a little while, but we finally

made it happen. And much like past episodes of this program with Josh Lajani and Adam Sud, David Clark, and my most recent episode with Charlie Jabale, this is an incredibly inspiring underdog every person kind of tale. But what it's not is a story of stunning weight loss. Instead, it's a story about body positivity. It's about self-empowerment and self-acceptance. It's about tackling stereotypes, overcoming prejudice, and it's about inclusion. The need to redefine how we think about not just running and what a runner is, but, or an athlete for that matter, but about, about inclusion, the need to redefine how we think about not just running and what a runner is, but or an athlete for that matter, but about that wellness, about fitness in general. But more than anything, I think this is a conversation about the power of owning your truth. I adore this woman.

I absolutely love this conversation and so thrilled to share it with you. And please make sure you stick around to the very end for a treat because Myrna, you might be surprised to know, is also a Juilliard trained opera singer. What? Like, yes, I'm telling you. And she takes us out with her extraordinary, and I mean that in the literal sense, extraordinary voice, which is insane. You got to hear it. So, okay. All right. Let's do this.

The Mernovator. Hello. Beautiful. Are you ready to go? I am ready to go. We could just giggle and laugh the whole time. That's what I tend to do anyway. That would be one version of the podcast.

Good. Well, so nice to be here with you. I've been looking forward to this for so long. So have I. I'm really excited. Yeah, it's really great. So first of all, before we even get into it, we're in a hotel room in Anaheim. What are you doing here?

What is going on? I am at the NAIS, which stands for the National Association of Independent Schools POCC, People of Color Conference. And it's a conference that I go to every year. As a black woman in education and independent schools, it's a really important conference for me to go to to be in community with my people. Right. Well, that's great. Beautiful. And you're not presenting, right? You get to kick back and enjoy. Thank God. I am kicking back, enjoying seeing all the learning happening with the group of faculty that I brought from my school. Well, you had quite a year. Just a year. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, it's been building to this, but like, I think just as of late, well, since your book came

out and even prior to that, I mean, I was aware of you and kind of following you from afar for a little while, but it wasn't until, uh, and I'd seen your book popping up in the pre-order stuff on Amazon. I was like, oh, that's cool. She's got a book coming out. That's great. But it wasn't really until the REI film came out that you, I mean, that was like a crazy viral thing. Like even more than you being on NBC News or all the kind of mass media appearances where you've been popping up. I feel like that little movie really put you on a map,

on the map in a very mainstream way. Yeah, it did. It was very, very unexpected. And it's really surprising the effect that it had on all different kinds of communities of people. I am still getting inboxes and Instagram direct messages and Twitter direct messages about this video every day. Yeah, it was great. Well, it was so well done. It was beautifully articulated and it just gave you a really kind of intimate glimpse into into your life and what you

do and what you're about and what you're trying to put out into the world yeah it was really the the filmmaker Sarah Menzies was really very careful to frame it in a way that was true to who I was and she didn't try to sort of project any other things that people would want to hear, like a before and after kind of thing, or, you know, here's this weight loss story, because there is no weight loss story here. Well, there is, but that's not the point. But I really, really enjoyed that.

It was just, it was a very, very true and honest depiction of who I am. Yeah. It's interesting, this idea of before and after. I mean, everybody loves the before and after pictures on social media, and you're kind of like an antidote to that, like a counterpoint to that traditional idea of before and after. But there is a before and after aspect to, you know, your narrative arc of life. Sure. I would call it of before and after, but there is a before and after aspect to your narrative arc of life. Sure, I would call it a before and during. I'm still progressing to wherever I'm going to end up. Aren't we all?

Aren't we all? Where are you gonna end up? Who knows? I've been presented with so many opportunities this year, last year, in the past two and a half years really. And, uh, I'm still in education. I still love my job. Uh, I have no idea. Things are exploding at a rate that I cannot keep up with. Um, I'm enjoying the ride. I know it's not sustainable, but, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm figuring that out. Why do you think it's not sustainable?

I don't know. Or what about it isn't? You know, because I don't know anybody that has ever experienced what I'm experiencing right now in a good way. Being a presence in all kinds of media, getting to write a book and having it do well. And, you know, just just being having a platform, having many platforms for the message that I have. But do you so do you have this sense that it's going to get pulled out from underneath you or it's going to go away? Like I see it just building. I do. I have a fear that it's all going to crash and burn. I feel that way, too. And I've been doing this for a little while. So I'm always like, yeah,

who's going to take it away. But I think the truth is you're just at the very beginning of, of building, you know, this really powerful movement and it's, it's resonating with people, I think in a really interesting and unique way. And in a very kind of practical, professional manner, you can see it being manifested just simply by virtue of the fact that you have like, you have like all these sponsors, like the whole traditional idea of like companies that sponsor athletes based on podiums

and what's your race schedule, that's shifting. I think, and I think that's for the good. And they're recognizing that people with, with, with platforms and specific points of views that are developing audiences that are resonating with that have value to these brands. And so I think it's really cool that all of these brands are stepping up to support the work that you're doing. I mean, how, who do you, who, you got like, these brands are stepping up to support the work that you're doing i mean how who do you who you got like you have well obviously i have rei right merrill merrill skirt sports yeah that's nicole that's nicole the boom's company uh yes and uh who now is a dear friend and uh i helped her like i did a little consulting with her on getting her podcast up and she's amazing. She's cool. Yeah. She's a really cool person and a wonderful human being.

Swift Wick? So there's Swift Wick. And then I have my physical therapist in New York City, even though I don't live in New York City anymore. New York Custom Therapy, Custom Performance Therapy.

And I am still feeling like I'm in a dream state when I get a call or an email. What do you need? What clothing do you need? What apparel do you need? What shoes do you need for your next race or your next whatever kind of event? So that's really cool. And it is. It is very telling of the shift in paradigm that is happening right now. And it's not a trend. It's not going to go away because ultimately having a bigger scope of who you represent or who represents you as an athletic brand is going to help your bottom line. And people like me, people who have my body

type, people of my race, people of my gender, we have money and we want to spend it. So it's, I think it's really incumbent upon these, these companies to continue this, the work that they're doing to, to broaden the scope of their, their apparel. Yeah. I think it's, it's weird that so many of them are still stuck in that old model because these athletes at the highest level, like they're, they're going to be sponsored by the people that are going to pay them the most. And then they're going to say whatever, because that's who's sponsoring them. Right. But you can't manufacture the honesty and the integrity and the authenticity of somewhat like someone like yourself brings into that equation because you're just, you're living your life and you're spreading it with love and with an open heart

and all this sort of thing. And it's like, that's what every brand wants. It's like, to me, it seems so obvious. Well, every brand doesn't want that. Just like you said, I don't think every brand is there yet. There are still some brands that are very, very aspirational in terms of the body types they want presenting or representing what they have to offer in the athletic industry. But I think eventually it will

be very difficult for them to stay in that frame of mind or to continue that way of thinking because then they're going to lose market share. There will always be elite athletes. We will always praise them. They will always show us the potential of very high performing humans. And we still need that. We still want that. We want people to look up to.

And we want people to role model the highest form of athleticism. But we also need people to be represented that are not elite, that are engaged in athletics, because we love it. It's good for us. It's good for humanity. It's good for us spiritually, emotionally, and physically. And yeah, and so I think, you know, more and more companies are. Yeah, and just as ambassadors that the average person can connect with, that they can relate to. Yes. Yeah. So let's let's step it back a little bit. Grew up in Brooklyn. In Bushwick, right? In Bushwick, Brooklyn, yes.

And so what was that like? I loved, I still love it. I loved growing up in Bushwick. We had a great community of people. It was a primarily Italian and Puerto Rican neighborhood that I grew up in. Italian and Puerto Rican neighborhood that I grew up in. We were always outside playing, running up and down the block and doing various things. And it was a really fun experience growing up with that kind of community in an urban setting.

You will not find that anymore. Yeah, I know that neighborhood's changed a lot. Yeah, it's gentrification. We can talk about that on the next podcast. But, um, yeah. Word of Valerio on gentrification. We'll do it in NPR voices. There we go.

I'm Terry Gross. Um, but, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it was great. Yeah, it was great, even though it was a working class neighborhood with a lot of families who were living under the poverty line in the mix. And sometimes that was my family, very strong sense of family, friends, and I'm still friends and family with those people that I grew up with. And I still consider that my home, even though I live in Georgia. But yeah, even, you know, we were outside all the time, going to the parks, riding our bikes around the block, dodging cars, playing skelly in the middle of the street. Right. Like no organized sports at school, but just living, being active kids and running around and all of that. And you grew up with a very strong kind of sense of the importance of education.

You had a mom that really prioritized that. Sounds like your dad was gone a lot, though, right? Dad is Honduran? Well, I had my stepfather and my mom. They were my parents. And I had my biological father, who lived in Honduras. And I had a relationship with him, too, a very good one, even though we didn't see each other a lot. He was still a presence in my life uh because he had many other kids okay that's another podcast but uh all over the world but um it was uh yeah and it was a very strong family unit yes as you said education was very

important um and i was just like yeah we did have dinner at home uh where we told jokes around the table every night and imitated people in the family um and uh yeah and it's not um that is not the way things are now um like in that particular neighborhood but um yeah so it was, yeah. So I had that. And you, I mean, you were somebody who showed quite a bit of promise academically from a very early age, right? Like you were in the sort of the gifted classes and all of that, kind of separated out like this is a kid to keep an eye on.

Yes, I was always a nerd when I came out of the womb. What were you like? What kind of nerd? Like Star Trek nerd or like physics textbooks? I loved reading. I was really, really creative. I devised things like I would write tests when I was eight or nine for my younger brother. I was eight or nine for my younger brother.

And I would create my own library, my own lending library at home. I did things like that. Right. Well, I think I read somewhere your stepdad would bring home books to you. And he brought home like a gastroenterology book. And you're like devouring that over the summer or something? Five inch thick book. It was like the guide to family medicine. And I was so enthralled by everything in that book.

I read it from cover to cover several times. And if I could find it, there would probably be notes in the margins. And that sparked my interest for a possible career in medicine. And that's where I wanted to, I thought that I wanted to be a gastroenterologist because I, I thought that that was the, the kind of doctor that dealt with diabetes, um, and other endocrine issues. And because that was becoming a problem in my family. And so, um, but that idea was thwarted when I saw the movie gross anatomy back in the 10th grade.

And I didn't realize that you had to deal with cadavers, um, in your medical training. And so that's kind of part of the deal. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was it. So that was that I've decided to become a musician. Right. And we're going to talk about that.

Cause that's super interesting. That doesn't, I don't think that gets talked about enough in your story. I mean, you are like an incredible talent, right? That came a little bit, well, you were singing in the choir, right? Like church was a big deal. Like the whole Sunday was about. Oh my goodness. So my mom would send us to church. She wouldn't go. And I think this is her way of engaging in self-care. She would send all of us to church with our cousins and aunts and uncles. And we would stay in church all day from Sunday school. All day.

All day. We would leave at 730. The church fan would come and pick us up. And then we would do Sunday school and then have to do a report out. And this was my first sort of experience with presentational skills. And then we would have a couple of different services during the day. And then during our breaks, I would take out my medical book and read it. And actually the pastor was very, very, very intelligent. And what he would have us do, the smart kids in the congregation, is that he would have us present on whatever we were studying.

And so I did a whole presentation on diabetes, mellitus. And I loved that. I loved presenting. I loved showing people how much I knew. I was a little bit obnoxious about that, but, but yeah, it was, it was great. And then, so yeah, so we would do that and we'd go to another service and then get home at around 11 on a Sunday night and then have to go to school the next day. Wow.

And Pentecostal, I mean, that's kind of, that's fire and brimstone stuff, right? That's like holy rollers, fire and brimstone. I eventually left the church. Is that like talking in tongues? Talking in tongues. Really? Getting the Holy Ghost. Were people doing that?

Oh, yeah. Really? Anointing people with oil, screaming. And, you know, the typical, the sort of stereotypical things that you would see depicted as a Pentecostal church or a Baptist church. That's the kind of church that we went to. So, yes. Was there, I mean, are you, was there a point where you gravitated away from that? Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. As I, I actually read the Bible a couple of times myself. And eventually I decided that I did not agree with most of it

in terms of the way women were treated and the way women were expected to sort of be and exist in reference to men. And so I left the church actually. By the time I graduated college is when I decided that I was no longer Christian. Okay, so it wasn't like when you were in seventh grade. No, well, I did show signs of being a rebel

in Sunday school when I read something that I had a question about or that I did not agree with. And sometimes I would get in trouble for, or I would get told on by my cousins because I didn't agree with something. And, but that's just, that's kind of the way I process things. You know, I would read something

and then I have a, I don't know about that. But yeah, I'm definitely a questioner. You're a questioner. I'm a questioner. On the Gretchen Rubin. Did you read that book? Yes, I did. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. So by the time you're in seventh grade, though, here's where things kind of shift into a different gear for you because you end up going to this fancy hoity-toity prep school up in Westchester well um oh in seventh grade it was ninth grade that I went to uh the prep school but in seventh grade was when I was identified as somebody um that was qualified for that program it was called prep for prep um prep for prep nine actually and it's still in existence and actually a lot of prep nine people are here at this conference because they have become educators too and that's sort of a program to identify you know promising young young people talented

kids from the New York City metro to and what it does is prepare us for entry into elite private schools. Right. So when this opportunity arises in ninth grade to go to boarding school, it sounds from your book, which I love, by the way. Thank you. I didn't mention that yet. I really love your book. I'm not done with you. I'm about halfway done.

You're a really good writer. Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah. It's really good. That you were, like, you're all about it. Like, this is just an amazing opportunity. You're not resisting like the idea of leaving home or anything like that. Like you just couldn't wait to get there.

The first time I left home was when I went to summer camp and I was hooked. I was hooked to or hooked on being away, being on my own. Cause I've always been extremely independent as is my son karma. And, and, um, I just love the experience of, of constantly meeting new people and having new experiences. And that's what boarding school was for me. And my, my family was totally for it. Um, they saw it as a way for me to get out, which I did. And it was an amazing experience. Yeah, there's this passage in the book where you and your mom take all your stuff on the train because nobody drives and you don't have a car. That is still true.

You're like schlepping all your stuff. Yeah. And your mom doesn't want to leave. And it's very sweet, you know? But this is now an environment very different from Bushwick, right? Yes. I mean, probably not that many African-American kids. My school probably, my school was the master's school, and it probably had more diversity, racial diversity, than other schools at the time.

But it was still a predominantly white school. Very different. But the great thing was that the program that I was in, Prep for Prep 9, had had us live at two different boarding schools before we actually went to boarding school. So it wasn't a shock to our system. We kind of knew the unspoken rules because they had been stated to us explicitly in our training. And we were prepared academically, socially. A couple of us still had some issues sort of fitting in.

I didn't have any of those issues because I went to a very small all-girls school. And I was immediately loved and embraced. That was the clear impression from the book is that there was no resistance at all. Everybody just rolled the welcome mat out. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And that school was still like that. And you, you kind of describe yourself as, as introverted as a young person, but I have a very hard time seeing that. I think that's false. No one believes me when I say that I was very shy. And I think it was probably a function of a lot of different things.

But I come from a pretty loud family. And I was always the one that was kind of in the corner or in the bathroom reading. And I'm still like that to a certain extent. I am definitely an introvert, but I can be extroverted when I need to be. But I was very timid, very shy. But as soon as I got to high school, people started noticing that I was talented at singing. I was talented at drama. I could play sports.

And so people appreciated me for that. So I felt like I could just be my whole self. And so I think that helps if you're an introvert or somebody that is timid or shy and those things aren't necessarily the same. But if you are someone like that and people appreciate your talents and appreciate you for who you are, it brings you out. It pulls you out. And at this point, ninth grade, you're already, you know, you're larger than the other kids. Oh yeah. Right. So there's pictures of you when you were really young, like you looked normal and all that kind of stuff. So at some point you start putting on a little bit more

weight than everyone else and you enter into this new environment, but you're determined to play sports. Like you just can't wait to play sports. And so there's this very beautiful section in which you vividly describe your first field hockey practice. Yeah, that day will forever remain etched in my memory. Well, it's like the foundation for everything that followed, because despite the adversity and the difficulty of it for you and how new and challenging it was, like you still embraced it and you were embraced by your peers as well. It wasn't like, oh, she shouldn't be on the team or anything like that. That I think is really kind of an amazing thing. I mean, had that social dynamic been different, you might be living a different life right now.

Exactly. I probably would have left and gone to Brooklyn Tech like I was supposed to go to and been a doctor. But yeah, that first day was incredible, even though it was extremely difficult because I'd never had to exert that much energy in my life before. And everything about trying out for field hockey was new to me. Everything was new. Being on a team, running as much as I had to do. We ran two miles that day, and I had never run more than probably from my house to the street lamp down the block.

And yeah, so it was in the difficulty. I love the difficulty of it, even though it was painful in the moment. I learned that my body could do it. And so I love that. And I love the fact that the coach came up to me and said, you know, this is hard, right? But you're doing it. Good job. Keep going. Like, that's all I needed to hear. Right. And nobody was disparaging. The, the older members of the team were very, they were very encouraging and, and just cheerful and just wonderful people.

And that, that really made an impression on me. And so I wanted to do whatever I could do to get better, to be a better athlete on that team. Yeah. That wasn't my experience when I tried to play basketball in seventh grade. It didn't go very well. It was not, it was not welcomed or well-received. I remember listening to that in your book. Anyway, that's beautiful. I mean, I think that's great. And it sounds like you kind of had a charmed experience at this school. Oh, I absolutely did.

I really did. And I think when I graduated from master's, that summer, I was depressed the entire summer because I wasn't there. And I knew I wasn't going back., I was depressed the entire summer because I wasn't there and I knew I wasn't going back and I was going to college. Uh, and that's a whole other story, but, uh, but yeah, it was, it was a really, um, wonderful experience. So during this period of time, you start to find your voice as an artist as well, right? You start to sing and you're definitely getting, getting the kudos in that regard. Everyone's like, whoa. Yeah, that was really cool.

This girl can sing. And so you end up going to Juilliard while you're in high school, right? On the weekends. Yeah. So Juilliard has this pre-college division. It's really hard to get into. Of course, at the time, I didn't know. I mean, I had heard of Juilliard.

But to me, it was just another LaGuardia High School of the Arts, right? And I never expected to be part of that. It was never on my radar. But as I sort of blossomed into the singer on campus in ninth grade, I started taking lessons and voice lessons and piano lessons. and voice lessons and piano lessons. And so, yeah, I became this soloist. And my first music teacher there at Masters encouraged me to apply to Juilliard Pre-College. And I said, okay, sure. What do I have to do?

So she taught me a couple of songs in German and in French. And so I went down and auditioned twice. And then I got in. And I was one of three voice majors in that program. That's crazy. And so, yeah, thus began this whole experience of being in a very, very, very high level music institution. And I still didn't quite get where I was until the 11th grade. And so, yeah, I still feel like that's a dream.

Right. That I had that connection to Julia. And when you were doing that, was it focused on opera or just general voice development? Or what was it like? It was because when you're a young singer in high school, you don't want your students to be singing heavy opera. You learn a little bit. You learn your arias and you don't study any roles, though. You focus on building the instrument and learning repertoire that is appropriate for your level. And but in that, I'm a linguist and I'm i learned languages very easily so i i got to learn

a lot of different repertoire and a lot of different languages and so that was kind of my hallmark um yeah so right and so when you graduate high school was there a consideration that you would continue at juilliard could you have graduated into a program there i mean you you end up going to oberlin and that has a conservancy of music there, right? Yeah. So you continued to pursue your music there, but was there an inkling of staying in New York? My teacher, Lorraine Newbar, who also taught in the college division, really, really warned me against even auditioning for Juilliard because it's a very, very cutthroat institution.

And I'm really, really happy she did that. I didn't want to stay in the city anyway. Like a black swan kind of thing. Exactly. And people putting razor blades in the piano case. And I didn't want any part of that. And, um, and it, it, for me, it probably would have been very distracting with, uh, you know, having my, having my family there. And, um, I love my family, but, um, I really needed to be away. So, um, so

I decided to go to Oberlin. But was the idea then still like, I'm going to pursue music? Well, I did. Um, I, I didn't know yet. Um, I. So I entered the double degree program in which I have a degree in music and I have a degree and I have a BM and I have a BA and my BA is in Spanish. So I didn't know. So I studied each thing equally with equal intensity. Um, but then, you know, as I, um, as I did the program, um, you know, it was still a extremely high level conservatory. It's one of the best in the world. Um, I'm looking at other things. I'm looking at, oh, maybe I want to do poli sci. Maybe I want to do math. Maybe, um, I don't know.

Maybe I want to do comparative literature. Um, but I had most of my credits in Spanish. So I decided eventually to just stay with Spanish. And I spent a semester in Spain. That's another part of the book. But yeah, eventually I decided that that's not, it wasn't really what I wanted. I auditioned for about two years in New York city and I decided that I didn't want that life. I didn't want to be poor. I didn't want to be a starving artist because I

grew up poor and I didn't want any part of that. Right. Um, and also the tunnel vision that that would require, right? That's just it. That's all you're doing. And I'd actually, um, before I'd actually gotten into Westminster choir college, um, with a really, really big scholarship. And, but I knew that there was no academic program and I didn't, I did not want any part of that because I needed something else. I mean, I'm still like that. I need the music. I need the language stuff. I need the writing stuff. It just makes me feel like a whole person. Right. So when you finish Oberlin, you kind of have to make that decision, like, am I going to really pursue the music or am I going to just, you know, go like, you know, do what other college graduates do? And you chose the latter and you end up in, you end up in New York city, like working at this big accounting firm, right? Like that's

hilarious. KPMG or something like that. Yes. That job was great. I love the work. I love the money. Um, and it, you know, it afforded me a lot of luxuries. I could, I had my own apartment. I didn't have to have a roommate. And, you know, I went out to restaurants and went to theater productions and operas. It was awesome. And I would not be able to do that now. But yeah, I decided eventually that although I love the work, I did not love the people that I worked with. And Talk about tunnel vision. Lots of folks, not everyone, that work in corporate America, in my opinion, are very, very narrow-minded. And they need to be, I think, in order to be successful

at whatever it is they're doing. And I had considered the legal profession for a little bit, worked as a paralegal and a legal assistant and a translator for a little bit worked as a paralegal and a legal assistant and a translator for a little bit I did I love the work I didn't love the people like a big at a New York law firm yeah various New York law firms oh you did yeah yeah so I know what that life is like as well but like I lacked your level of self-awareness to to see that that was what I didn't want and continue to pursue that longer than I should have. But to be able to have that kind of emotional maturity at that age to see, okay, this is good

and I like these things about it. But ultimately, yeah, it's a no-go for me to be able to step outside of that. When you are getting paid well and you come from very different circumstances, that's not an easy decision to make. It's not, but I knew that I would not be able to survive emotionally because I'd experienced a lot of slights at all of the places that I worked at.

And I said, that is not something I want to keep experiencing. Slights like racial slights? Well, not racial slights. Body image slights? I want to keep experiencing. Slides like racial slides? Well, not racial slides. Slides where I, and this is a common thing with women, where I would do like amazing work and then somebody else would get the credit for it.

Or, you know, you're in a meeting and you say something and no one listens to you. But someone, a man says the same thing and it's, oh my God, that's revolutionary. And I was like, you know what? I'm not about that life. So, um, and I can't sit here and, and just take it all in and, and, you know, and just like live with that level of toxicity. And so, um, so when I was, when I was lead off from one of the jobs, I saw that as an opportunity to reconfigure and sort of figure out what my next steps would be. But it was during this period of time where you kind of connected with running for the first time, right? continued to run recreationally and just, just as a part of a regular fitness routine. Um, even, even though I was working like 80, a hundred hours a week, um, I still found times I didn't have a kid and, um, you know, uh, and I could, I could be up all night. Um, so I would, I, after work,

I would go, um, go to the gym and run on the treadmill or whatever and, or run outside of my apartment building in Riverdale. And, um, but I did, uh, find a running clinic, um, at that time that was, that was really cool, um, through the hospital for special surgery, uh, on the East side of New York city. And, um, that was an eight week thing And it kind of reignited my love for running at that time. It was 1999, I think. And so that is what got me into 5Ks, 5Ks and 10Ks, because we were preparing for a 10K. And that was like running instruction. It wasn't just like a group, right?

No, it was instruction. They had panelists. And they had different people running with us. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I really think they had Greta Weitz come and do one of the panelist discussions, which is, that's really cool. That's cool. And they had other people.

They had Olympians. They had people who were physical therapists. They had doctors come in and talk to us just you know, just about the benefits of running. And so, and that obviously has stayed with me. Yeah. Yeah. So you got like this little, little master's degree in running on the side. It was great.

And I loved, I just loved being, running on the East side Esplanade and having that routine. And after that, I would always go to the groceries, the fruit market on the east side esplanade and having that routine. And after that, I would always go to the grocery, the fruit market on the corner and like get my fruits and then go home. It was a really nice routine to have. And I also met my husband during that time. It was like on a subway platform during a blizzard. So romantic. It is a very romantic story that my students always ask me, they always ask me to tell the story over and over again. If it's so good that they're asking you to tell it, I feel like I should ask you.

Because I do my husband's accent. He's West African, right? He's West African. He's from Burkina Faso, which if you don't know what Burkina Faso is, it used to be called Upper Volta. which if you don't know what Burkina Faso is it used to be called Upper Volta and and so yeah so I'm working at KPMG and I'm working on site in Newark New Jersey or as they say on the PATH train Newark New Jersey and there's a storm in in in the area and both Penn stations in New York City and Newark, New Jersey are without power. And which is a really, really odd occurrence. So I'm stuck at work because I did a counter

commute because I lived in the Bronx and I would commute all the way to New Jersey, like an hour and a half commute every day, both ways. And so I decided to stay at work. Hey, I'm going to get overtime anyway. I'm going to stay at work until the trains are back up and running because I didn't have a car. All the buses and Amtrak trains had been sold out. So I was just going to wait and earn money while I did that. And finally, we get word that the trains are back up and running. I go downstairs to the platform. I'm downstairs to the platform. I'm waiting on the platform for a long time. And this guy walks past me and looks me up and down.

And I'm like, not today, not today. In my head, don't. I'm not in the mood. And so he walks away. And it's just a couple of steps away from me. And after a couple of minutes, he comes up to me and says, I'm so sorry, excuse me. Can you tell me if this train goes to New York? And I said, it's very New York. I said, the sign says train to New York.

And then he's like, oh, I'm so sorry. Thank you, thank you. He goes away. I'm like, ah. And he comes back again a couple minutes later and says, excuse me. Excuse me. I'm so sorry to bother you. If I want to go to Brooklyn, where do I have to get off?

Last stop. World Trade Center, because this is before 9-11. He said, OK, thank you so much. Thank you so much. And he asked a couple of other stupid questions uh finally the oh and when the train is coming into the station he he says um where do i have to sit i'm like it doesn't matter and the train America like one day right you know and i'm like really annoyed because it's late and I just want to get home. I'm going to have two hours of sleep before I have to get up and go back to work.

And the train comes. I sit down. He sits in the same car. And I was like, oh, God. Here comes more questions. Right. So I take out my book um and i'm reading um yeah it's so and there were we were the only two people on the train

in that car and uh so i'm like reading my book and he you know he comes over to me and he sidles over to me and said oh uh you're reading i'm like yes he's like what are you reading i'm like a book um and he says no no no who's the author and so i'm thinking in my head he's not gonna know he's not gonna know who this is i'm like milan kundera and he says oh the czech author and in that moment i was stunned, blown away. And I said, what, what? Come again? Yeah, yeah. Didn't he write, now I can't remember, The Book of Laughter and Forgetting. Didn't he, didn't he write The Book of Laughter and Forgetting? I'm like, yeah. Uh-huh. Keep going. And he also wrote this and he also wrote that.

And have you read this? Have you read this by Chinua Achebe? Have you read? And I'm like, oh, oh, okay. Oh, I haven't read that. And so immediately my interests are sparked. I think I said this in the book that he was playing me at my own game because I would use questions like that to immediately rule out people. Like if they didn't listen to jazz,

if they didn't know anything about classical music, or if they didn't read the New York times, I was just, I would rule them out cause I didn't want to be bothered. Um, but yeah, yeah, totally turned the tables on me. And then we ended up talking and, uh, I did, I started speaking to him in French because he had an accent. So I asked him where he was from and then so I said, would it be easier for me to speak to you in French? And so we spoke in French for the rest of the ride. We get to the end of the ride. He says, thank you so much. And I said, okay, bye. ride he says thank you so much and I said okay bye thanks he's like no no no no no please please I would like to thank you by giving you these books I have you know the Chino Achebe books

and I said no it's okay I can buy my own books I have a job like I have a really good job he's like no no no please please please you help me so much and I don't remember the moment that I gave him my work phone number, but I did. And, and then, uh, he called me every day afterwards, every single day. And, uh, it turns out that he, um, when we finally met up for a drink, he, uh, forgotten his books cause he was going to give me the books. Right. Right the pretense right um and and uh we just had we had great conversation and uh and started dating and uh the rest is history he never had any books um and the reason he knew all of the titles all of the milan kundera titles is because he used to work for his uncle who was a bookseller. And what brought him to the States?

What brings a lot of immigrants to the States, looking for better opportunities, a better life. And yeah. And so he had only been in the States for about three months when I met him. Beautiful. That is a great story. I can see why they always want you to tell it. You tell it very well. Thank you.

So at what point does the idea of teaching come into the picture? Well, when I was unemployed. It was great being on unemployment for a couple of months. I did a lot of reading. I did a lot of writing and a lot of exploring my own city. But after a while, I got bored. And it turned out that I had actually needed a break because right after I graduated, and I graduated from college in the middle of the year, I immediately started working.

I didn't take a break, against my mother's wishes. She said, you've been working for a really long time. You can just sit at home and just do nothing. And I said, absolutely not. But I did take that break and it was very needed. But I was getting bored. And so I called my alma mater, the master's school, and I said, hey, do you guys need somebody to come and teach voice or piano?

You know, I do it as a volunteer. And the next day I was there working. That was it. That was it. And then that blossomed into that year. Unfortunately, somebody on the faculty had a nervous breakdown and I ended up taking over her position for the rest of the year as a middle school music teacher. And I had never envisioned myself as someone who worked with little kids. But after three days of doing it, I fell in love with the energy, the enthusiasm, the

curiosity that these students had for whatever I presented to them. Right. And you, I mean, at this point, you're not that much older than that. I mean, you're still really young. I was, I was what, 22, 23, maybe? But the switch was flicked, and you're like, this is what I want to be about teaching. Well, I didn't decide right then and there that this is what I wanted to do. I said, you know what, I'll do this for a couple of years and see how that goes.

Because it's fun. I get to engage all of my interests. I'm in a place that I love. Because it was my alma mater. And I'm doing music. And yeah, I loved it. I had a great time. Right.

And so you end up teaching there for a while. And then you end up at a couple different. You were in New Jersey. And you were in Maryland for a while. Right. What school in Maryland? I was at the Park School of Baltimore in Maryland, a very, very progressive school. Right.

Which, I mean, I loved the students and I loved my job. I just didn't love Maryland. Right. But you're progressively becoming more and more in love with teaching and the kids and all of that, right? And it came very naturally to me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And it came very naturally to me.

So let's fast forward to kind of another seminal moment, which is this health scare that you had in 2008, because that really precipitated this chapter that you're now enjoying in your life, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so when I moved down to Maryland, my son was about one and a half and that was in 2004. I guess I was just looking for something new. I didn't want to teach music anymore because I felt I was feeling more and more progressively that, um, that music teachers were underappreciated. Um, it was as they still are. So are. So I wasn't about that life. And so I decided to switch over to Spanish. And so one of the jobs that was most appealing to me, because it was in a progressive school,

was at the school in Baltimore. And so I moved down there. My husband stayed up in New York, because he had his own job. And we were going to try to make it work. I moved down with my son. I was by myself. I didn't have any family in the area. I was very stressful. And this was my first time having to deal with finding childcare and paying for it and working at a job that was, I was working in the lower school and the middle school.

And this was a very, very new experience. I was, the learning curve was very high. And then my son was always sick. So I missed a lot of school and there was, you know, there was some question as to whether I was doing that on purpose or I was like hanging out in New York or whatever it was they thought I was doing. And so that was very stressful for me. And I gained a lot of weight when I was down there. And also I had to drive everywhere. And that was a new thing for me.

Coming from New York, I had to learn how to drive. And I actually bought a car before I learned how to drive. And, um, well, I do things backwards. And, um, and so, yeah. And so all of the things that I had been accustomed to doing in New York city, walking everywhere, taking public transportation, I was now driving everywhere. And then my son, again, my son was always sick. Um, I'm gaining weight. I'm having horrible headaches and hip prosositis and just pain all throughout my body. And it's a two-year-long sinus infection. And just, I wasn't sleeping. And so, because my son didn't sleep through the night. How old was he at this time?

He was one and a half. One and a half. That's like a lot. Yeah. And he didn't sleep through the night until he was almost 10 years old. And that's when I started sleeping. And so, yeah. And now you get up at four.

Yeah. I love it. I love it. And so, yeah. So, I was experiencing all the stress in my life. I'm trying to make it work with school, trying to make it work with childcare, being on my own. I'm having my husband come down on weekends where I would go up to New York on the weekends.

And, uh, it wasn't a, it wasn't a good deal. Not a lot of self-care time. No, none at all. Um, and so I stuck at the school for three years. Professionally, it was a good move for me, but personally, probably wasn't the best move for me. So I decided to go back up north to New Jersey. And so I started working at the Purnell School there. I was at a small all girls boarding school.

And for some reason, I thought that would be less stressful. But at least I was closer to home. at the Purnell School there. It was a small all-girls boarding school. And for some reason, I thought that would be less stressful. But at least I was closer to home. And so within a year of me being there, I was still very, very, I can use this word again, stressed. I was extraordinarily stressed. Now I had a boarding component to the school. Meaning you were living there. I was living at the school.

I was running a dorm. So there's no checking out at 5 o'clock? No, no, no, no. I work at a boarding school now. It's a little bit better, but there's a little bit more free time. But because it was a small school, you did everything. You taught. You did sports. you did tutorials you did study hall and you ran the dorm um in addition to being on duty not just

during the week but on the weekends and uh so that's when i think things really really came to a head um late summer of 2008 um and and i maintained this side hustle on the weekends where I would teach piano, voice, guitar, French, Spanish, whatever people asked me to teach privately. And more driving probably, right? And more, lots of driving. Like driving all over to do that. Three hours each way. But I actually really, really enjoyed going back to Maryland and not having to be there,

and only being with the people that I love to be with. So that was a good part of it. But it was obviously taking a toll on my body, in addition to all of the things that I was experiencing up at school. And so on my way back from one of these weekend trips is when I started having chest pains. And they were pains that I had never, ever had before on the left side of my chest. And so I immediately thought that I was having a heart attack because the pains were so insistent and sharp and sort of rhythmic. And so I eventually pulled over and had my son in the back of the car

because he frequently came with me so it wasn't like something that was that started slow over the couple weeks like I didn't know where you were in the car out of nowhere I remember exactly where I was on Route 222 near the runners world campus and how ironic, right? That is. You can't make that up. You cannot make it up. And so I pulled over.

And after having all of these thoughts and trying to figure out what I was going to do, was I going to call 911? Was I going to just sit here and die? Was I going to try to keep driving? I eventually decided to keep on driving. The smart decision. Right, it's really smart, because I'm really smart. But I made it home and had a friend

drive me to the hospital, where it was determined that I was not having a heart attack. I mean, after you have to be there for eight hours with all the tests and everything. And but the the attending physician said I was having a panic attack. And and I'm thinking, who me? A panic attack? I'm fine. But I wasn't fine, obviously, because my body had spoken. I'm fine. But I wasn't fine, obviously, because my body had spoken. And, you know, that caused me to be very reflective of all the things that I had been experiencing. Do you think it was a panic attack? It doesn't sound like a panic attack to me. It sounds like

a cardiac event. Right. Well, but I was also hyperventilating. And I had trouble sort of calming myself down, but I eventually calmed myself down. But I mean, I now with a little bit of research, it can feel like an actual heart attack. And so but then I also remember my mom had also experienced panic attacks at this age out of nowhere. And they're they're age out of nowhere. And they're not out of nowhere, but they're unexpected. And so when I followed up with a cardiologist, he informed me that, well, you know, this might have very well been a cardiac event because you have all of this inflammation in your bloodstream. You are overweight.

You are living this lifestyle that is not sustainable because they take you through all of this huge questionnaire, what your lifestyle is. And it was very clear to him that it was not a very healthy lifestyle in terms of me not sleeping, in terms of me working all the time, in terms of my having, and also like my family history,

having heart disease in the family and hypertension and stuff. I didn't have hypertension or heart disease or diabetes or anything, but those are things that are very common in my family. And he said, you know, with this family history and your lifestyle, you are going to have to change. You have to change now.

And at this point, you're like, you're 300, right? I was over 300 pounds. I wasn't way over 300 pounds, but it was definitely over 300 pounds because I hadn't weighed myself in years. And so he said, I need you to change your lifestyle. I need you to, if you want to see your son grow up, this is what you're going to need to do. And that was a moment of catharsis.

And I said, okay. In my head, okay, I know what I need to do. And so. And so what did you need to do? How did you translate that into a plan of action? For me, that meant getting on my treadmill. Because I had just purchased a treadmill. So I guess in the back of my head, I knew. You were preparing for this.

I knew that I needed to do something. I knew that I needed to do something. And yeah, so like it took a few days for me to sort of get my mind right and to get prepared for what I knew was going to be a long term thing. But, you know, I made a plan. I said, I'm going to do a mile a day. And that first mile back wasn't very pleasant. Right. You're back at the field hockey practice. But it was even slower.

It was 17 minutes and 45 seconds. I remember like stopping it and having that time flash at me. And I was so disappointed. I asked myself, how did I let myself get to this point? And so I said, you know what? Okay. All right. That's where I am now.

Tomorrow. Right. Just own that reality rather than perpetuate some level of denial about what was actually going on. Right. Exactly. And that's always been the way that I've been. Okay.

Well, this really sucks and I'm really sad about it but I have to move on so I did another mile the next day it was a little bit better and the next day a little bit better it took a couple of weeks for me to get back into my groove my mile was still really slow but by then I started feeling better

like my face wasn't as puffy anymore was still really slow, but by then I started feeling better. Like my face wasn't as puffy anymore. My dental health was a little bit better just in a couple weeks. And I was sleeping better. And was there a goal in mind or was this just I'm going to shift permanently? Or like, what was the mindset or how did you, you know, what was the mindset that you adopted to launch into the change and maintain it? Well, my initial mindset was that I wanted to lose the 15 pounds that the doctor told me to, because I knew that was good for my body.

And I knew like, I knew the weight that I was knew that was good for my body and I knew like I knew the Weight that I was carrying wasn't good for my particular body at that time. It didn't feel good and I Yeah, it didn't feel good and so that's what that was my initial My initial goal and it happened very quickly. I was able to do that I wasn't only running a mile. After about two weeks, I started adding a mile. I started doing a mile and a half or two miles

and then increasingly feeling that I was sort of back to my old self. And then after a couple of weeks of that, I knew that I needed a goal because I always need goals to sustain me and to keep me on a track of whatever I'm doing. And because if I don't have a goal, if I don't have a deadline, I'm just not going to do it. So I said, you know what? I'm going to sign up for a 5K because that would be nice. That would be something that would be great to work towards since I'm doing all this running anyway all this running I'm doing all this anyway and so I signed up for a local 5k and it was in

April and of that year and I was pretty disappointed with my time and I was disappointed in the fact that it was it seemed so difficult because I had done 5Ks before and they were not difficult. And previously anyway. And so that was another thing. I said, okay, well, you know, my time was whatever it was, I think it was like 48 or 47 minutes or something like that. I said, well, you know, I want to get, I want to at least get back down to my, the time, the last, the time of my last 5K, which was like 39 minutes or something like that. I said, well, you know, I want to get, I want to at least get back down to my, the time, the last, the time of my last 5k, which was like 39 minutes or something. And so I worked towards that. I signed up for more 5ks. Um, I followed a loose, a very loose plan, um, of how to get there. And, uh, and so I decreased my times, uh, over that summer,

the following summer and the summer after that. And did you have people that you were doing this with? Did you have friends that you enlisted? Yeah, that first summer, I enlisted my friend Nikki, who was another teacher at the boarding school that I was working at. And she had had her own fitness goals for that summer. And so she decided to, to come and work out with me. And we were, we were serious. I said, this is going to be, we're going to do Biggest Loser, Myrna and Nikki, Myrna and Nikki style. And so we worked out for like five hours a day sometimes. We worked out for like five hours a day sometimes.

Wow. That's all we did. We would run in the morning and then we would play tennis and we'd have a break and do a little bit of lesson planning. Then we'd do a couple of videos. We'd find a pool and go swimming. Then maybe in the evening sometimes we did 5K. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot.

But you know what? Was it like, sorry I interrupted lot. Yeah, it's a lot. But you know what? Was it like, sorry, I interrupted you. No, go ahead, go ahead. You know, I'm trying to get at like, were you kind of discovering once again, like, oh, I like this. Like, this is fun. Not like, oh, this is what I have to do to not have a cardiac event.

No, it was definitely out of fun and out of rediscovery of like, I love being outside and I love working out. Um, I've always loved it, uh, since I was introduced to that back in high school. Um, so we're going to do it, you know, times a million. Uh, and, and it was also having a tremendous positive effect on my health. Um, and not just my physical health, but every type of health there is like spiritual, emotional, and mental. And I just felt so good. And I looked forward to every single workout. And then when we had recovery days, I was, I would get antsy because I just wanted to go back out,

but I knew I needed to rest. So it was this incredibly fun thing. And it was awesome that I had sort of a partner in crime, um, to do it with me. Yeah. To not have to do that alone. And I think it's, it's really important to kind of dwell on this aspect of your story because it's easy to go online and go, oh my gosh, she did, you know, Javelina hundred and like this attempt on trans Rockies and like, oh, it's like, I can't do that.

She, you know, whatever she looks like, she's still some kind of genetic freak. Right. But you're, you know, starting from zero, just trying to do a mile. Right. And then fast forward through just the diligence showing up on a day to day basis. I've worked your way, you know, over nine years to be able to do the things that you're able to do now. Yeah, and I think that's what is surprising to people, that it took so long to get to where I am now. And I still have a long way to go as far as my own goals. But, you know, people look at me, they'll look at my Instagram or any of my social media accounts and say, well, how did you do it?

It's like, I've been doing this since yeah um so there's nothing about this that is overnight I've been working on my fitness for a really really long time um and uh so when I get a lot of messages of people asking me so you know how did you how did you, how did you, how did you, how were you able to run 100K? I was like, first of all, how much room do I have in this little comment bubble? Like, I love when I get the messages like that, that are so broad is like, well, I could, you know, it's like, this is why you write a book because it takes a book in order to answer that singular question. Cause it's, it's, you know, a lot of years of putting in work. And as you said, showing up, simply showing up and doing the work, even when it's not fun.

And there have been many, many times when it's not fun, it's not glamorous, you know. And I don't feel like doing it, but I do it anyway because it's my job like my body is my job so um it's it's a pleasurable job sometimes but sometimes it's just you know going through the motions and making sure i get it done and it's not a it's not a weight loss journey necessarily i mean you did lose like you went if you were were over 300, I mean, you got down to, I don't know. I got down, my lowest weight was 239. Um, and, uh, and so, and that was, that was like right after, uh, a year and a half after I was doing all of that intense exercise, I got down to, cause was there ever a sense though, that you're like, I'm going to get down to 160

or was that never even part of, did you think like maybe that could happen? Every now and then I would say, you know, when I get to, when I get down to 180, I'm going to buy myself an Audi. I don't have an Audi. I like that it's so specific. An Audi Q7.

Really, I like, I would sometimes have that goal, but I learned that my body was never going to get there unless I starved myself. And you did that a couple times, right? Like you're able to get down low, but you know this is not my sort of default setting. No, no. Like 239 was even, I said well i mean okay well but then it uh then it would go up to like 245 or whatever and that's kind of where i i live like 245

now that i'm doing weight lifting it's a little bit higher, but I know that's muscle. So, but yeah. Right. That's where my body lives. Right. Was there like a light bulb moment where you're like, I really, I mean, when you're, when you're doing these 5Ks initially and you're sort of progressing and you're getting a little bit better and better and better, I mean, was it just an organic journey of like, okay, I'll do a 10K? It's just like one step up every time, one step up. So it wasn't like I'm going to do this massive jump from, you know, half marathon to 50K. It seems like every step that you took was like kind of just a methodically, sort of methodically plotting this journey where the next goal was just the thing that was just a little bit out of reach in contrast to the previous one.

Yeah, it was a combination of that and of peer pressure. Yeah. Peer pressure works. Good, like runners, peer pressure is not to be fooled with because, you know, to have friends and people that you would see at the local races because it's always the same people. Hey, you know, I think you would like this other race that my friend puts on. It's a 10K, but I think you'd really like it. And so, okay, I'll try it. So are you somebody who just always

has to be signed up for a race? Yeah. Nowadays, I mean, I'll run anyway. I'll, you know, I'll go and work out anyway because just because it's, it is a part of my lifestyle right now. But it brings a certain focus to how you spend your time.

Absolutely. Like right now, right now, right this instant, I feel kind of lost because I'm not training for anything. I mean, right now, right this instant, I feel kind of lost because I'm not training for anything. You gotta get on the ball, man. I don't know what you're doing right now. Well, you know, I got three weeks until I started training for Boston. So there's that. But still, but I feel kind of like I should be doing something. But you need those gestation periods, kind of like after you left KPMG. You need that reboot period, I think. Otherwise, it does become unsustainable.

Right. I mean, I know that intellectually. I'm like, I really want to go out on a run. But I'm actually still recovering from the 60K that I did a couple weekends ago. A couple weekends ago. Right? I'm starting to get it. I'm starting to get it. I'm starting to get the picture here.

When did you start the blog? The blog I started in 2011. And it was just, I think my friends were annoyed that I was posting so much on Facebook about, you know, today I did a 5K. Or, you know, I'm training for my first marathon.

And a friend of mine who is a sometimes blogger says, hey, why don't you just blog? I didn't even know what a blog was. I mean, I had a vague idea of what it was. But she said, look, listen, you know, I'll sit you down and take you through what it takes to be a blogger. And so she showed me how to blog and that was it. And so I decided to sort of chronicle the training I was doing for my first marathon, which was the Marine Corps Marathon. And another peer pressure-induced thing that I did. Well, blogging is effective in putting pressure on yourself

because as soon as you write about something that you're doing, yeah, it's out there. But language is really important, so I'm curious in the kind of thought process that led to you naming it Fat Girl Running. Let's talk about that a little bit because I think this is like a really important thing. Well, you know what? 2011 was the year that I really like sort of sat down with myself and said, well, I

am not going to lose any more weight. And I was okay with that. I plateaued. Right. Okay. I plateaued. But I wasn't going to stop running because I loved it so much. And so I was, and I had this huge goal that I was going to do.

And I was going to work towards that goal in my fat body. And so. And you had done, the previous to that, you'd done a half marathon. I'd done a bunch of half marathons. So it's funny because going from half to full, that's a huge leap compared to going from like a marathon to a 50Ks, just a little bit more, you know what I mean? But going from half to full, that's a major step. It is. But I was ready for the challenge. It took me a couple of seconds to convince myself that I would actually be able to train for it and actually do it.

But I was mentally ready for that challenge. I wanted something bigger. I wanted to be outside longer. And where's your husband in all this? My husband is amused the whole time. He's like, oh, you're running again. Oh, okay. Well, how many miles are you doing today?

20. Oh, okay. That's not too much. I'm like, nah. And yeah, he was just amused at the whole thing. And actually at one point, his brother, my brother-in-law, came out running with me and said, hey, we're going to do 10K.

Because that's how they measure things. Everywhere in the world except for here. And I said, yeah, I'm going to go do 10K. And he said, oh, I'll come with you because I play soccer. I'm a good runner. I'm like, OK, cool. So he comes out. And there's a mile loop around the school.

And so he comes with me on the first loop. And he says, oh, come on, come on, come on, Mirna, Mirna, let's go. Run faster. I'm like, no, because I have five more miles to go. And after the first mile, he was like, oh, I'm finished. Okay, okay, okay, okay. You know, you don't need to. You know, no, you lost too much weight.

That's hilarious. Very differing sort of aesthetics right there. But so, yeah, so he's, you know, just amused by the whole thing. Very, very rarely he would come out and run with me because he really loves soccer and basketball. Those are his sports. But he did notice that I, you know, that I had lost weight. But there was never, I never had any, he never commented on, you know,

or being dissatisfied with my appearance, because I wouldn't have married him. But yeah, you know, and he's, and it just became a part of my routine. I would go out running and then on the weekends I'd go do my long run and then I'd come back home and then he'd go do his thing. And so it was a nice little trade off that we would do. And so back to the blog though.

So you start blogging, Fat Girl Running. Was there, like, let's get back to the naming of it. Like, was there like consternation or a consideration of like, okay, I'm going to use this word. Like, you've made a very deliberate choice to own this word fat, right. And in a, in a, in a climate of, of, you know, fat shaming and sort of PC terminology around certain phraseology, rather than shy away from that, you're just kind of stepping into it and identifying with it in a very personal way. So I'm curious about why you made that decision and what that means to you. Yeah, I wanted to write about being an endurance athlete in the body that I had without it being a weight loss thing, without it being centered that way.

And I knew that the word would be a trigger word. I knew that, but that's how I identified. You know, since the third grade, I had always been a big girl. And I, unless somebody was being malicious or mean, I knew I was a fat girl. And it didn't really bother me. I knew it would bother other people. And I knew that it would be controversial. And even before I named the blog officially, I sort of asked a bunch of friends. i'm thinking of naming my blog fat girl running oh why would you do that why don't you say fit girl running or why don't you say fat to fit or why

don't you just name it something completely different like a badass runner or something like or myrna runs or something like that um but that you know you know, that wouldn't have the cachet of something as striking as fat girl running. Um, and so I decided to stick with it knowing that I was going to get some, some, some flack from people. And, um, but I, I'm not a stranger to controversy or, you know, just doing whatever I want to do. So that's what I did. But that's what eventually got me noticed. Right. And we're working towards that.

Initially, did you get some weird comments from people saying, I can't believe you would name it this? Not necessarily from people outside my circle, because it was a very small circle to begin with. I just shared it. I shared it on Facebook with my friends and family. And, you know, with my little, I had a little fitness group on Facebook. And after they got over it, they were like, yo, this is great.

I love your stories. I love, you know, the one story about the potato chip, you know. And so it just became normalized. But I did occasionally I would get because I moderate every single comment. I would get things. I don't really understand why you called it fat girl running like that really makes me feel it makes me feel ashamed. And it makes you know, I think you're beautiful, not fat. And so there's this like false dichotomy of like beauty versus fat. And that's kind of what I'm interested in exploring with you, like how you parse that.

Because like I said, initially, like words are important. And the associations that we have culturally with this word, sort of trigger people in a certain way. But the cool thing about language is that language is organic and always changing. So I, I was very, um, I did that very deliberately. You're reclaiming it and redefining it. Yes. Um, and, uh, and sort of really making an effort to reframe the word in all of its associations. I know that's probably never going to happen, but I think we can try. And actually, the paradigm is shifting because there are a lot, there are actually, there's actually more than one blog named Fat Girl Running and someone has like an LLC business or whatever.

They took that URL. You know, and, but, you know, I've done my research. I think I was the first one anyway. But yeah. You're the biggest one. In more ways than one. Oh God. All right. You said that, not me.

And, but yeah, I, you know, yeah, it was very, very deliberate. And again, I knew people would have issues with it. I actually did an online conference. And I forget what the title was. It's in my book. The Badass Fatletly or something like that. Or, um, and, uh, the bad-ass fat-ass athlete. That's what it was. And, and some people had issues with that. Uh, you know, like when, when I hear the word fat, I am triggered. I am, I feel like I'm back at the dinner table with my dad saying things about what

I'm eating. And I know that that is out there, but I think if we don't deal with that, if we don't bring those issues to the forefront, I think sometimes triggering those things is good because it forces a conversation. Right. And by you owning it in that way, your idea is to somehow diffuse that. Yes, hopefully. Yeah. I think to a certain extent, it has diffused the power, the negative power of that word to some extent, not very much, because there is a lot of fat phobia, fat shaming. And, and I don't think that'll ever go away unless there's a huge paradigm shift in our society about a lot of things. But meanwhile, there's a lot of people that are considering or even signing up for their first 5K or their first 10K who are overweight or

perhaps even morbidly obese who without a resource resource such as yourself, might not, you know, check that box and enter their credit card number. But because you're kind of transparently and very openly sharing your own journey, you know, in regards to this, it's empowering for those people to, you know, consider, you know, their own inner athlete, which is like a big, that's like kind of the core theme as I see it of everything that you do is like empowering everybody to believe that we can all be athletes no matter where we're at on that spectrum. Yeah. And that's, that is what has been really, really incredible about all of this publicity and all of the media stuff that I've been doing is is that every single day I get messages about how people have decided to sign up for a 5k or I am going to, I've never done this

before, but I'm going to actually run outside. And you know what, that is revolutionary for a lot of people because you are, number one, you're showing your body outside, knowing that there might be some, your family might give you flack for it. Yeah. There's your, it's vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. You are absolutely open to the world. And there's a lot of power and overcoming that, overcoming that fear of showing your body outside or like being awkward outside and being okay with being awkward outside. Um, and so that is really cool. And I, and I love to hear stories. Well, I signed up for, for my first half marathon because I saw your REI video, or like I read a thing about you in runner's world, or, or, um, somehow I saw an

Instagram post where you were preparing for this race. And I said, well, she can do it. I can, I can probably do that too. Like, that's really cool. And if that is the, the, the, the effect that my journey has had on people, then that's something that I definitely want to continue doing. Yeah. It's beautiful. I mean, it's the best thing in the world when you know that you've activated people in that way. I mean, it's completely transformative. Yeah. And it's just, it's really cool to be a part of whatever this movement is. It's, yeah, I'm like, I'm honored to be a part of it.

So you're blogging away, your friends, your Facebook friends are reading it or whatever. But at some point there's like a tipping point right like how and i guess that tipping point was when was it when runner's world decided to profile you wall street journal wall street journal that was before that yeah before that was that was the first you know um hint of media like how much traffic were you getting before that you know what i don't know because i wasn't keeping track of it. I'm teaching school. I wasn't, I wasn't even writing in the blog very often. And I still don't, I don't, I don't write in it very often when I had a story to tell that that's when I wrote in it. And, um, and I wasn't

out to make money or, or anything or get sponsored posts and stuff like that. I'm going to get REI to sponsor me. Or Merrill. It's so crazy. I think just like stepping back and like looking at it from, you know, 10,000 feet, it's like you can't, you couldn't have orchestrated this by design. Not at all. You know, this is like just a beautiful outgrowth of you expressing yourself in a very true and authentic way in a vulnerable way that's connected with so many

people. And, you know, and the other cool thing about it is that I don't really have to do, I'm not doing anything differently than you would be doing, than I would be doing anyway. differently um than you would be doing i would be doing anyway so like um so that's cool because you know i know that a lot of people who you know who are who you know have instagram fame or you know um you know there's a there's a level of of plasticity i think um that i am glad that i don't have to uh do i don't have to do anything outside of my norm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because you're not trying to craft an image. You're just, this is my life.

Yeah. Right? With a couple of Instagram filters. Yeah, here and there. But like you never miss an opportunity to do the running selfie, right? Oh no. No matter what, if you're running, like you're, yeah, like you're,

there's gonna be a selfie happening. Oh yeah, oh yeah., there's, there's going to be a selfie happening. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It gets annoying for other people. They're like, oh, another selfie. But, uh, but yeah, that's, you know, here's what I'm doing, you know? And my, my hope is that if you see me doing this, maybe you can picture yourself doing something that you want to do.

It doesn't have to be running, but it could be whatever it is. It's just a little mental jab. Like, hey, you know, I'm just telling, I'm reminding you like, hey, I'm out here again today, you know, and it makes people think like, oh, what did I do today? I think I shouldn't have taken that day off. Myrna's out there and the Wall Street Journal is writing articles about her. So how did that happen? Okay. Well, you know, I was sitting at a conference. I go to a lot of conferences. And I had my phone buzzed, and there was an email from somebody at Wall Street Journal.

And I immediately thought to myself, well, you know, I don't get the Wall Street Journal, so why are they writing me? So I put my phone down, and then I looked at it again and I said, oh, shit. This woman wants to interview me about my blog. It was Rachel Bachman from the Wall Street Journal. And I stepped out of the room. And because we weren't supposed to have our cell phones on, we're talking about like gender and sexuality.

We're supposed to be present, but I wasn't very present. You're like, I gotta take a break. Excuse me. So I go out and I get back to her immediately. So we have an interview the following day. A rather long phone interview.

I'm like, what is happening? She's like, I'm doing research on whether or not it's worth going to the gym or working out if you're not losing any weight. And I'm like, absolutely. So I tell her my story. And so a couple of days later, the article appears in the paper. And that sort of sets the ball rolling. And I had no idea, but I'm like,

oh, that's really cool that I'm in Wall Street Journal. That's really, really cool. And then the head of my school started getting messages from alums, hey, did you know one of your teachers is in the Wall Street Journal? And so it just started kind of getting bigger and bigger and really snowballing until a couple of weeks later, I get an email from John Brent at Runner's World. Hey, love the feature in Wall Street Journal.

I love your blog. Would you be amenable to being featured in Runner's World? What? Me? Like, I'm thinking in the back of my head, does he know I'm fat? Because I've never seen a fat person in Runner's World. And so I'm like, yes, I'd love to. And then, you know, and then he comes a couple of weeks later, he comes down to Georgia,

spends a couple of days with me and he runs with me a couple of times, interviews me at length, interviews some of my students and he just sits in on some of my classes. And, and I was just, you know, I was in a dream state and I'm like, this is so cool. Oh my gosh. And I'm still not believing at this point that anything, that the article isn't even going to happen. I'm like, he's going to see that I'm fat. And he's going to say, this is not what I want to represent. But no.

Right. Because before he flew down to Georgia, he had a different mental idea of who you were. The person behind Fat Girl Rank. Exactly. Well, I, you know, this is just what I was thinking at the time. And yeah, and so that was really cool and surreal. And then a couple of weeks later, I get a call from the creative director.

Hey, we're gonna send a photographer down to you. And she, Brian Meltz, who was an amazing photographer, came down and spent 12 hours with me. He came running with us like 5.30 in the morning and in the rain. And she said I wasn't prepared for this. But that was really cool because I got all my friends and some of my students to come to the photo shoot. And then the article came out a couple weeks later. And that was, talk about the tipping point.

Yeah, that really changed things. Because it's not just an article. It's not like, oh, we wrote an article about Myrna. It's like a Rolling Stone cover profile type article. It was 12 pages. Yeah, it's for real. And I think what's interesting about it beyond just, you know, your amazing personal story is that it addresses this subject that comes up in the Wall Street Journal piece as well, which is, you know, can you be overweight and fit? What is the relationship between, you know, disease, fitness, diet, nutrition?

And there's kind of a cultural debate and a scientific debate around this. Like you can't be considered healthy if you're overweight or you're obese. Is that true? Is that not true? And you're kind of like this interesting case study that's swimming around in the Petri dish at the center of this debate. Yeah, it gets really interesting to still be in this position because people really are confused. And there's a lot of cognitive dissonance around the fact that I am exercising all the time, but I don't really lose any weight. It's confusing for people.

It is very confusing. You must be doing something wrong i must be you're secretly sitting on the couch planning into haagen-dazs every night you're not telling us what you're really doing right you're not really running that much right yeah and it's even recently i you know on the um actually when um rei posted the video on the facebook which is that's the point when when it kind of went viral. Most of the commentary was extraordinarily positive. But there were a couple of people, well, she must not really be doing what she says she's doing.

And didn't you notice that she said she eats a salami sandwich while she's running her 50K? Well, you know, she shouldn't be eating salami. So there, you know. It pushes a lot of buttons yeah it's very it's threatening to people because if somebody is overweight and has a weight loss dream or whatever they're at in their life like your example is is is sort of pushing those buttons it really does they're telling you who they are what their problem is the irony in all of that of course is, is that half the video is about, is about like, I want to talk about that email that you got. It's like about this troll hater, right? It's all about, it's hilarious that in the comments to that video

that you would get sort of trolling type comments. I mean, that troll was famous. He went viral. Yes, he did. Is he aware? I don't even know. I don't care. I would like to know if he knows that his email became so famous. Well, you know what? Do you want to talk about that now? I was going to talk about this later, but since we're knee deep in it, we should probably contextualize this.

Okay. So, yeah. So, there was this REI video that I was in. The Mernivator. Yes, the Mernovator. Who, interestingly enough, the woman who encouraged me to start a blog, she gave me that name, the Mernovator. Oh, she did?

Yeah. So, thank you, Leslie. That would have been a good blog name, too. I thought that's your Twitter handle. And I've trademarked it, so. Good for you. So there was this video that I had the honor of being profiled 50Ks, it was my first 50K of the season actually this past May. And I wanted to just get it done.

And I knew the filmmaker, Sarah Menzies, was going to be down with me and shooting me and interviewing me. with me and shooting me and interviewing me. So she happened to be there when on my last loop, it was a loop course. My last loop, I was probably at mile 29, 28 and a half, 29. When my phone buzzed and I got a notification and it was an email and the subject was running. So I'm thinking, oh, it's probably it might be one of my fans. I don't know why they're writing my school email, but sometimes people dig and they they find my school email because everybody knows where I work now. And so I was like, OK, well, I'll just open it. Yeah. And mistake. Mistake. No, I should not have been. I know. Mistake number one. Mistake number one. Like checking your email in the middle of a 50K.

I know, I know. I have a slight addiction to my phone. But so I opened it. And so the email said all these horrible things. And the person who sent me the email, a man, accused me of being a fraud, accused me of not doing what I say I do, which is running. He said that he could walk faster than my run, which is probably true, and I don't really care um and for a professional runner you're overweight first of all a professional i don't know where he got that idea but uh you just said

all these like awful awful things i have sponsors i guess what is the definition of professional i think you are a professional but like you get like paid to do it I get paid. I get free clothes. And I have the backing of these amazing companies. But it's a very different thing than elite athletes. I mean, our podium, the DFL podium, that did finish last podium. And so I get this. But yeah, and so like I get this while I am at mile 29 of a 50K race. Actually, it was a 12 hour race.

It wasn't actually a 50K race, but it was a 50K for me. And it's completely ironic. Right. That's irony number one. Here you are accusing me of being a fraud while I'm doing the thing that you said I don't do. And, uh, and it, it really stunned me. It was, um, definitely emotionally painful to read that, um, in that moment. Um, I'm tired. I am back hurts my, I just want to be done. Um, but, uh, the amazing thing was that my friends were with me. They decided to run the last loop with me or walk. We were walking at that point.

And, you know, they read, I let them read it. And, you know, they were, they were good friends. They said, oh my God, I believe this jerk. I mean, you're, you're soft peddling it a little bit because he, you know, there was a couple of fucks in there. It was nasty. Right. It was, it was very nasty uh and you know just it that it was very clear that the intention was to hurt me and to belittle me and to fat shame me and um to dehumanize me and uh yeah and so but my friends were there and i said, you know, fuck that guy. But like also, you know, mile 29 in a 50K, like that's, that's like right around when

you're most vulnerable and most susceptible to like that negative, you know, the negative thought patterns. I could just say, you know what, I'm done. You know what? But again, my friend said, put the phone away. I said, well, not before I post this on Instagram, because this is, this is really messed up, you know, and, but so I did a screen grab of the email, and I posted on Instagram. And then I put my phone away. Meanwhile, the Sarah Menzies,

the filmmaker, you know, she's at the end, at the finish line waiting for me uh to come in and uh you know so she's on her phone and so she sees the email she sees my instagram post um and uh so so we just you know it happened to happen while she was there filmmaking gold yeah like here's here's the story i can build this story around this yeah and uh you know and and then, you know, within a matter of minutes, I had almost 100 comments on that post because my phone kept buzzing. You've got to turn your notifications off. I know. Well, I don't have them on anymore. But, yeah.

And so I was looking. And I eventually put the phone away because I just wanted to finish. And I did want to be present with my friends and the dog that was there. And so we finished and Sarah was waiting at the end, you know, congratulated me and just filmed me coming in and did a little interview. And she said, I'm so sorry about that email. That was really messed up. By the way, if you want to talk about it, it doesn't have to be now. But if you want to, you don't have to, because I could understand that.

That is it's traumatizing. And so we didn't talk about it then after the race. But when she came back to spend a week with me, with Jenny Nichols, the other filmmaker on the project um she uh we carved out some time to talk about that and and ari i loved what she cut uh she sent them with like a 40 minute cut and um and it really she didn't want to focus on that it was a part of the story you know it was a part of kind of like what i experienced as a larger runner but they really wanted to focus on that and at first she said you know this really wasn't my artistic vision I really want to showcase this badass female in the outdoors and you know and but you know they they wanted the that

troll piece and and and I got to see it before they released it. And, um, I thought it was great because the bigger message was that, um, that this sport is really inclusive or it can be inclusive and, uh, just fitness in general, um, should be inclusive. just fitness in general should be inclusive. And so I really enjoyed that, that they chose to frame it. Well, she had to frame it in that way and she did it really artistically and beautifully.

I mean, it adds a level of poignancy to, to the story and to your story and to, you know, I think something that, that someone in your shoes has to deal with that probably a lot of other people have to deal with as well, right? So I think it was a beautiful creative decision

that I think made the video, you know, really meaningful. So that's like one piece to what you just said. The other piece is the inclusiveness of the running community. I mean, the altar community is like amazing that way. It's like a beautiful traveling circus of amazing, open-hearted individuals that would never perpetrate an act like that. And so when you're on the receiving end of that, I mean, to get it in the middle of a race, I mean, it's like, I can't imagine when all you need is like that positive encouragement. It's devastating. And even outside of that context, if you were just at work and you came across that, I mean, what an awful thing for a human being to say. It's like, I can't

imagine. Like, I don't understand people that write negative reviews. Like I would never, like, I just don't, it's like not in me to be that person. So it really speaks to, you know, where that person is at in their life and how unhappy they are that they feel they have to lash out at another human being. Unfortunately, we're in a climate right now where there's a lot of that going on. Not only is it the norm, it's like accelerating at a crazy rate to just see kind of the cesspool that social media can be with regard to that kind of the cesspool that social media can be with regard to that kind of behavior. I mean, is receiving stuff like that atypical?

I mean, does it happen regularly with you? I definitely, I had never gotten anything sent to me individually like that. I mean, this guy had to go out of his way to find your email. He looked for my work, my work email. Yeah, he felt very strongly that you needed to hear what he had to say about this. And boy, did we hear it, and the entire world heard it. And now the whole world knows you.

But I've definitely been the subject of many a Reddit thread. You gotta stay away from Reddit. I do not ever go into Reddit, ever. Even if it's positive. Or, or. Anywhere where people can post anonymously. Yeah, and so there was a lot of negative commentary on the Runner's World post.

And a lot of it was, or not just on the Runner's World, but even on the Wall Street Journal article and other things when the NBC thing came out again most mostly most of the commentary was really positive and like oh that's so cool I'm so happy for you go ahead girl you know that kind of thing

but then there would be people that would say you know where is she running to a Dunkin Donuts or a Krispy Kreme is she running to? A Dunkin' Donuts? Or a Krispy Kreme? Is she running to McDonald's? You know, look, she's out of breath. It's because I'm ML15. Or whatever.

Or, well, she's glorifying obesity. Right. If there is an intellectual argument to be had around this, it would be that on some level, there's a perpetration of this idea that people can feel okay about being unhealthy. Right. But what is unhealthy? That is the question. And there's so many different perspectives. If you know for yourself, like you've done all these diets, you've run all these crazy races, like you know your body well enough to know what your set point is and that going below that creates health problems for you as opposed to positive, you know, beneficial things, then that's your truth. Yeah, that is my truth. And, you know, I always go back to sort of my metabolic profile and the fact that I have amazing doctors. And I've always, not always, but I've definitely had, you know, a medical team that knows what I do, that thinks it's great. that, that thinks it's great. And, you know, they look at all of my numbers, your numbers are great. You know, when is your next race? I did last year, I had to go to a cardiologist because I was suffering from anxiety. I didn't realize it was anxiety. But I was having heart palpitations.

Why were you anxious? I was writing my book. Okay. And I was nearing, I was getting closer and closer to the deadline. And I had enough words and everything, but I was so anxious about it that that anxiety manifested itself as heart palpitations. And I went to the doctor and wore heart monitor for for two weeks um and uh and the cardiologist said there's nothing wrong with you you are you're having anxiety what is going on in your life and i told him he's like oh okay as soon as i submitted the manuscript the palpitations went away. So, um, but I'm always very forthcoming.

Um, I'm not afraid to make requests or to ask questions. Um, um, I feel very entitled when I go into a doctor's office and I know that's not the experience that a lot of people have. Um, and I have a list of questions. I question their whatever. Yeah. So why do you think I, how many cardiologists do you go to, by the way, before you settle on, you know? Um, and so, yeah. And, uh, but yeah, I know, I know when my body feels good and I know, and I, I know when it doesn't feel right. Um, and right. And you know, and part of that is, you know, from doing all the physical activities that I do, like you begin to have a really, really intimate relationship with your body. And so you know when something's wrong.

And but otherwise, my medical team is very happy with me and, and they support me in whatever I do, I go into the doctor and I hear the nurse practitioner saying, you know, um, Myrna is an ultra runner and, um, her right glute is hurting right now. So we're going to take care of that, you know, uh, and so, you know, see, you know, what's at the root of that pain. And, um, and yeah, so like, and I hear them talking and so like that frames the entire doctor's visit. I don't get, well, and they look at me and immediately, because this happens to a lot of people. Well, clearly you need to lose some weight. Or you need to, have you started, have you ever considered exercise?

I did have a doctor. But right after I came, I had done two marathons in one October. Steamtown and Marine Corps. And then I went to a gynecologist. And she said, well, have you considered physical fitness? I was like, I just told you I finished two marathons this month. Like I don't, I'm clearly not my doctor anymore.

But yeah, so I, there are a couple of goals that I do have for myself physically, but you know, I'll get there when I get there. I'm going to continue to work on those things. I think on that argument of helping people to feel more comfortable about their lack of health, in your case, I see somebody who's inspiring people to get out of their comfort zone. somebody who's inspiring people to get out of their comfort zone. You're setting this example for other people who perhaps can relate to your body image because they're walking around in a similar state and seeing what you're able to do is inspiring them to rethink their own paradigm.

Right. And becoming physically active is definitely a part of that. Now, running might will probably not make you skinny unless you are genetically predetermined to that. But but it will definitely change things on the inside. It will change your body. You will look different. I look very different than I did, you know, even at the same weight a couple years ago. But yeah, but you have to just sort of get past that aesthetic and work on the inside. Yeah, we associate self-image with physical image, right? So when you think about self-image, how do you define self-image for yourself or a

healthy self-image? I think having a healthy self-image, well, it requires you to appreciate and love yourself. And I know that's really hard, especially for people who don't get that from the outside or get that externally from family members and friends and society, and who have not been in the practice of self-love. I'm fortunate in that I always had a healthy body image in my sort of family culture. Nobody ever said, hey, you're too fat, don't eat that. You don't strike me as somebody who walked around staring at your toes. No. Ever. No. And people in, you don't strike me as somebody who walked around staring at your toes. No. Ever.

No. No. And people in my family don't either. And so I was very, very fortunate because I know that is not the reality for many, many people. But, and I think it takes practice when, in terms of loving yourself and having a healthy self image, you have to actually speak those words to yourself. And people feel kind of weird doing that, you know, like looking in a mirror, like if that's some, if that's a way that, that, that will happen for you, I think, or, or just kind of reflecting, being reflective of, you know, what, what did your body do that, like, made you feel like a badass?

What did your body do that made you feel like a badass? There's so many things that are involved with having a healthy, positive self-image. And I think for me, it is that practice. Because if you don't get it from the outside, you have to create that yourself. And that takes a lot of really deep self-reflection. Right. You had it from the get-go, and your family environment supported you in that regard. But the development of self-esteem, if you're coming from a place of low self-esteem, that's a 50K for somebody.

That's climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. I mean, it's very difficult. And kind of what I always say is the first step for me as somebody who came from a place of low self-esteem and kind of what I say to other people is self-esteem comes through the performance of esteemable acts. Esteemable acts on behalf of yourself and behalf of others. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that when you engage in, you know, from a physical standpoint, because that is deeply connected to the mental and emotional standpoint, when you engage in a physical activity and you notice yourself, you feel yourself getting stronger or you're able to last longer or

you are noticing changes in your body. That definitely sends messages to your brain. Hey, wow, wow, I feel great. And that changes your perspective a little bit in terms of body image. Like, you know, there's a lot of research on the effect of participating in sports for adolescent girls and how if they continue in sports throughout their high school years, they're more likely to have a healthier body image

or self-image than kids who don't participate in sports because it's a very visceral way of noticing positive changes in your body. I think also my sense, or correct me if I'm wrong or I'm interested in what you think about this, my sense is that people that strike a pose that society does not necessarily approve of or applaud are people that then are less likely to invest in themselves in that way, in a physical way, right? They tend to be more oriented around

helping other people and less diligent about their own self-care. So it becomes a vicious cycle, like a self-perpetuating problem. Do you think that's true or no? Can you explain that again? So I mean, like, listen, if you're, if let's say you're morbidly obese, right? And so people perceive you in a certain way. This is the path that you're walking. So you reach this point of like, well, taking care of myself doesn't really matter like i'll i can help other people or exert my energy in the care of others but i'm not going to really take care of myself because that's already like not in a good place is that wrong i don't i don't know um

and i because i think that, you know, specifically people. I mean, the more you take care of yourself, the more you want to take care of yourself. That's true, I believe. That's a really hard question. Because, I mean, I don't know what's in the mind of somebody who's more really obese. Because I think that you would have to consider how they got there, uh, and, uh, what their sort of frame of mind is, what their emotional state is and, um, have they given up or are they looking for help? Um, I don't, I don't know.

Those are all very good points. Um, or have people written them off? And so, um, so yeah, I don't, I don't really have an answer for that. But I do think that people who are used to engaging in self care know the value of it. of exposed to the the ritual of self-care if you've never seen it like in your own parents or in your own mom because it's usually women that are the victims of the lack of self-care um i uh yeah i think that if that's not something that is a norm in your life, you don't know that it's a possibility. Or you don't know how to do it. And I think from a perspective of women, I mean, women are the nurturers. They're the ones who are taking care of everyone else. Yeah, and then when you don't do that.

And you run out of time to take care of yourself or putting yourself behind everyone else and feeling indulgent if you actually need to attend to your own self-care. Right. Whereas the truth is that if you can tend to yourself and take care of yourself, that you can become a better nurturer and more of service. Right. And if that's what you want and or need to do. But that's not the message we get from society.

And so it's hard to counteract that. It's hard to engage in self-care when people do call you selfish. Or I actually had a cousin say to me once, it was Thanksgiving, and I was going to go do my turkey trot. I don't understand why you need to do this today. Because this is about family and you need to be here. Yeah. But I had stayed up the night before cooking all night., when I got back, I would be cooking all day. And, uh, and so I just ignored him. Um, and, uh, did my, my, uh, 10 K, uh, finished last and then came back home and started cooking. What did you call it again? DFL?

DFL. Did finish. Did finish last. Yeah. Or there's another way to say it, but I won't say that. You can say it. Dead fucking last.

I like that one better. That's more my style anyway. Yeah. So there's, you know, there's pressure from families, from spouses, from just from society in general.

You know, a woman's place isn't a home. A woman's place is in the kitchen. A woman should be taking care of her kids. I had one of my husband's friends said to me once, it's a good thing you're a teacher so you have the summers to focus on the family. And that did not sit with me very well. Right, behind that is, like, he's trying to rationalize, like, why you work at all. Why I work, exactly.

And, yeah, so, and I've never been that. That's never been my thing. I, you know, always have to work because I'll go crazy. And, but, but yeah. And so, and it's really hard to refute that and to, to live in that space as a woman and, uh, and not be affected by the messages you are getting, um, the implicit and explicit messages on what you should be doing. So what is the message that you want women to hear from you? You can still be a good mom if you take care of yourself. In fact, in my own personal experience, the more I took care of myself, the healthier my family was, the better sleep everyone got, and the better our family is in general.

Because if mommy's sick, everybody's sick. If mommy's tired, everybody's tired. And so, yeah. And it's not just if you're a parent, you don't have to be a parent to heed this message. A lot of women do end up in caregiving roles or caretaking roles, you know, whether or not they have children. And so, you know, at work, there are lots of women who, oh, can you go get the coffee? Or can you organize this party for so-and-so? Can you organize a baby shower? And you can say no, because if that's not your job, it's not your job. But that's a whole other podcast.

It is and it isn't. I mean, it's kind of what we're talking about. I mean, it's redefining stereotypes and reframing what it means to be a strong, powerful, healthy woman. And the boundaries that you have to create. And pushing against those boundaries creates problems. But I think we have to know ourselves better and to know that those problems that are created when you push against those boundaries and you say, you know what, I am not going to be the minivan driver or I'm not going to go get your coffee. That creates an opportunity for growth, for dialogue around that issue and for sort of giving different roles to different people.

Yeah, I think it goes back to that self-esteem piece, right? You have to have a certain level of self-esteem to create that healthy boundary and have the courage to articulate it in a way, knowing that there might be a repercussion. Yeah, knowing that there will most definitely be a repercussion and being. Knowing that there will most definitely be a repercussion and being prepared for that. What do you think people most misunderstand about what you're about and what you're trying to speak to? That's a really good question. I mean, we know the troll stuff right we talked about that you know probably one of the the most common comments that i get is uh or that i hear about or that i read about when i'm you know being spoken about in third person um when you get those notifications yeah you should really turn off or like don't tag me in

things i don't want it i don't want to read that um is the thing that people misunderstand is they really do think i am there are two things that i i'm really trying to glorify obesity and there's so many issues with that word anyway um that i'm uh because that word dehumanizes fat people and it makes it a very clinical thing when there's a lot of shame in that and in the medical arena when it comes to fat people. And so there's that, that I'm glorifying obesity just by being just by being like being alive because people would rather not see me um and then yeah that's got to be painful it is it's painful

um but i know it's there i know it's there and i'm still gonna keep doing what i'm doing um because as as you and i talked about like it has definitely hit a nerve with people, um, in a positive way that they are now, they now feel entitled to go outside or to start a new physical fitness routine or to join a gym or to do whatever it is that they feel like they need to do, um, to, uh, improve what they need to improve about their bodies, uh, or what they want to improve about their bodies or what they want to improve about their bodies or change. And so that's that. And then the second thing is that people really do think

that I'm sitting on the couch and eating a bag of potato chips. You're just faking the whole thing. Yeah. And I'm not going to lie, I love potato chips. Oh, my God. Jalapeno kettle chips um but you know i'm i'm not doing that and so like you know and i do know that people see me as an anomaly and and you know they can't wrap their minds around that but those are the two big things i'm glorifying obesity and that i cannot in reality be doing all the things that i say that i do. Right. Well, when you're in the business of trying to reframe these paradigms,

it's so contrary to people's worldviews that they have to dismiss it somehow, right? So, oh, she must not be doing this. It's the same thing with me being vegan. Like, oh, he's not really vegan. When no one's looking, he's eating this. Or like, because whatever I do, like if what I'm doing doesn't fit their worldview, there has to be a way to dismiss it somewhere somehow. And that comes in the form of some offhanded, you know, remark that makes them feel better, but ultimately isn't rooted in any fact. Right. Yeah. Um, and I would love to see people actually backing up their statements. Oh, so how am I glorifying obesity? Like what does it actually

mean to glorify obesity? Like what does that mean? Do you even know what you're saying? Or I get a lot of, you are going to ruin your niece. So that's what, that's like, that's a really, really good example of, you know, people just saying things because that's what they've always heard. That is what their norm is, even though it is not rooted in any truth or in any facts. And okay, so tell me about how running ruins my knees. Tell me about that. And I'm not afraid to have that conversation. That's kind of what I do in my job. I deal with cultural identity in my job. And my job is to have difficult conversations with people and to push people. Right, on the cultural diversity aspect of what you do. And so, yeah.

So where did you hear that from? Do you have, is there a scholarly article that you have about this particular thing? About how am I ruining my needs? So you roll your sleeves up and get engaged in these conversations. Yeah, I love it. Because I really want to know where people are coming from. You roll your sleeves up and get engaged in these conversations. Yeah, I love it because it's just, you know, like it. Because I really want to know where people are coming from. And if I can convince one more person that you can't just say things because that's what you've always heard without any real factual information, real factual information,

then you can't just be saying these things because it doesn't mean anything. So, yeah. So I kind of see it, that wasn't my job, but like, oh, it's something that I think I do well. I think I pull things out of people and I really try to bring people

to a new understanding of things. And if that is what I'm doing by just showing myself in public and i think it forces people to confront their own you know ideologies about body image or you know or or aesthetics what's been the most surprising thing about this whole crazy journey that you've been on other than the fact that it's just happening well yeah i was gonna say that it's still happening because every day after the wall street journal thing i was like oh well that was cool that was really cool then runner's world happened then nbc happened i'm like oh that was cool but there's no way that you know that um that this is going to last any longer than a few more weeks.

And you write the book, you get this book deal. I mean, it's not just that you wrote a book, like you had book agents pursuing you in the wake of all this media. Right, which is totally weird and not the way it usually happens. No, it doesn't happen that way. You know, because I get a lot of questions. Well, how did you find it? How did you find a literary agent?

I was like, actually, I found me. And I didn't have to write any queries or anything. And I know that's not the reality for most writers. And I feel very fortunate in that. But yeah, I mean, the fact that it's still a thing, people are talking about me, kind of not in the way. I'd always wanted to write a book. And I thought, you know, at one point I did think that I was, was going to be a professional singer.

And, um, but, uh, yeah, but you know, the, the cool thing, one of the cool things anyway, is that all of this sort of media attention and the, the things that I get to do that I, that I, I got to write a book that I'm always on some kind of stage, whether it's in a small venue or a large venue, that everything that I've ever done, this is a confluence of the performing arts, of the work that I do professionally. I've always been a writer. It's all coming together. It's all coming together. If you look backwards, it all lines up perfectly for you to be the best person suited to carry this message, this vibration that you're bringing into the world. All that training is all integral to the things that you're doing, the writing, the performing, the stage presence, all of the

confidence, all of it. It's really cool. It is. Yeah, it is cool. So when you were writing your book, like what was the, you know, what, what was it that was most important to you that you wanted to make sure came across? Um, I, it was very important to me to frame my own story. You know, as I had, you know, the NBC video was out, this was out, that was out. And there was always this sort of shade of, you know, look at this anomaly. You know, she's obese and she's able to run a 50K.

And that's fine. That's okay. Yeah, that's the clickbaity title that's going to get people to read. This woman that struggles with her weight. Now, that was, I did some TV thing. I think it was a Tough Mudder thing, which I really love doing. That was really fun. But they titled it, or one of the lines that they use is like a woman who this woman who struggles with her weight.

I don't struggle with my weight. I don't because that implies a fight and there is no fight. And so I wanted to reframe all of that. You know, here I am. I'm a big girl. I know that. And, you know, that's a part of who I am. But I wanted to tell people, like, people are really complex.

You know, all of humanity is very complex. So, like, what you see is not necessarily, you can't judge a book by its cover. It's very cliche. But that's essentially what I wanted. I wanted to write my own story. Like, this is who I am. Thank you, NBC, Runner's World, and Wall Street Journal for starting the conversation. But here's a little bit more information about me, about how important family is in this journey, how important my education was, and how everything that I do is a confluence of all of those things that I've ever

been able to do. Um, and so that's, that was my, that was my, um, my goal in, um, in writing the book. Um, so, well, I think you, you, I mean, you achieve that goal, you know, very much so like it's, it's beautifully written and it's it's such a compelling story like i think i saw somewhere that initially the book was meant to be more like a how-to or that was sort of the essence of the proposal or whatever i'm so glad you didn't do that and you just told your story because if you really want to activate people like a list of here or a program or whatever, it has value, but there's nothing more activating or catalyzing than an incredible story that people can emotionally connect with. And you certainly did that.

Thank you. Thank you. And as I was writing it, I always had the phrase, show, don't tell and in my mind because I there are so many training books out there and there are training books training plans specifically for people who are bigger people and I I didn't I wasn't interested in writing that because that's, that's easy. Um, and yeah, and it does have value, but I really wanted to show people that here I am, this is what I'm doing in my body. Um, and, and I think

people do really connect with personal stories. Um, and, and clearly, um, they have connected with my story and the pieces of my story. What has running meant to you? If you had to articulate a response to that. Well, from the first time I really engaged in running for the sake of running in 1989, it, that was life changing, um, in many different ways. Um, because I think running was this, this incredible way of learning about my body. 89 being when you, when you went to boarding school. When I went to boarding school. It was this thing that was fairly easy to do. I didn't need any equipment. I didn't have to buy anything. But it was so empowering in terms of, as I said, you know, me learning about the value and power of my own body.

And of course, that leaches into other areas of my life. I feel powerful when I'm running. And that just transfers over into other things. And it just makes me feel so good. And it still, to this day, is something that just gives me this incredible energy and enthusiasm about life. So why ultramarathons? Why do you keep trying to go further?

What is it about that that you're seeking? What is the question you're asking yourself or the answer that you're seeking for yourself through these races? Well, okay. Because you could just keep running 10K's or run marathons or whatever i i just i really want to see how far i can go in this body um and where it will take me um sort of both you know that as a metaphor and uh you know and literally um because it has taken me to really, really cool places. And and, you know, it also gives me a chance to be around people that enjoy the same thing that I enjoy. But it allows me mental space to be by myself.

And and it's something that has taught me a lot about myself and about the world. And so the longer I can do that, the more I will. So where is all this heading? Like what do you want to accomplish that you haven't yet? Or where are your sights set? Well, I'm gonna do Transwackies again.ies again we didn't even get into all your races we've been going for like over two hours and we didn't even like do any we didn't even talk about your races at all it's funny i put it on twitter i was like

what do you want me to ask right it's the same every time it's like how do you train it's like yeah that's not interesting no what's your's your nutrition? Right. But, so you made this attempt on Trans Rockies. I did. And it didn't go well. Well, you know what? Parts of it went really well. Like, I thought it was really fun. It was, I was, I had altitude sickness four of the six days.

And it's a crazy race. Just tell people what the race is. It's, Trans Rockies is a three-day or a six-day stage race. And a six-day race, the total mileage is 120 miles. And the total elevation gain is 20,000. 20,000? No, it's got to be more than that. I don't remember.

120 miles. I could look it up. I could look it up. Now I don't remember. I was just talking about this last night. It's definitely more than 20,000.'t remember. 120 miles. I could look it up. I could look it up. Now I don't remember. I was just talking about this last night. It's definitely more than 20,000. It's gotta be. It might actually just be 20,000.

Yeah. For the three days? Over three days? For the six days. And really the challenge is being at altitude. I did not finish 120 miles. I finished 72 miles. And yeah, it was 20,000, um, and 14,250 feet of elevation gain. Um, but again, it was something I learned so much about myself, um, in my failure,

um, to, to, uh, complete the entire distance. And so I have some unfinished business and, uh, there. So that's why I signed up for it again next year. And, um, but, uh, yeah, so I'd like to do that again. I'd like to explore, um, trail running in different countries. I'm going to be in the Azores, uh, in a couple of months doing a 65K. And, you know, so that'll be a new experience for me. I love new experiences. Eventually, I'd like to try a 100 miler. It will probably not be next year because I have a lot of things on my docket.

And but maybe like Tahoe. Maybe in the future. You mean like Western States? Nah no i'd never get in but that's okay like that's that's nice um i don't know you're the mernovator i'm gonna stick with just like doing like long distance uh but not like western states or like, somebody asked me if, oh, am I gonna like try to do Leadville? No. I will let the professional runners do that and those, you know, but there are lots of other things

that I could be doing. And I'd love the 50K distance. So I wanna try 50Ks on different terrain, in different states, in different countries. Because that's, I would say, is my specialty. You're balancing a lot. Family, full-time job, running ultra marathons. You go to a lot of conferences.

You speak a lot. You're writing writing books you're doing all these things like i don't want to see you get chest pains again because you have anxiety or you have another panic attack because you're you're you're in a situation now where you're going to get more and more opportunities and and all of them are going to be super cool things you're going to want to do and you're going to have to figure out how to give. Yeah. Um, I am, I am working on a graceful exit from formal education. So that you will, then you'll legitimately be a professional runner. Speaker writer. Yeah, no, that's great. Listen, this is your calling and you, you are a teacher. You're just, you're just going to be teaching in a different context. You know what I mean?

And I can definitely see that unfolding for you. So I think that would be great. Fingers crossed. Yeah. Yeah. And where do you want to take the advocacy piece of what you do? What would be your vision for the impact that you can have? Well, you know what? I really love doing retreats.

I've done them for my students, for the work that I do in diversity. And I'm a good teacher. I'm a good workshopper. I'd love to do some self-esteem work with women and men. I'd love to do, there are a lot of people that are afraid of trail running because they think they're too fat, they're too out of shape or whatever. I'd love to get those people into the arena and teach them and be explicit and be very encouraging and get them out there. I actually offered a trail running retreat a couple of years ago and then people started sending me money and I freaked out because they were sending me money but and I freaked out because they were sending me money because they wanted to do it yeah yeah and so I canceled it

really yeah I know I know it's awful right self-esteem medicine yeah yeah and so I definitely want to offer something like that again I will not cancel it I will take your money. That's so interesting though, that you received this money and you have this severe emotional reaction to that. Like you didn't feel ready. You know what, I don't think I was.

I am definitely ready now. I think I have a little bit more credibility. Send her a bit of your money. So she can't get out of it. Right? send the mernvid or your money so she can't get out of it right like who who turns down money uh mernivalerian i guess right that audi just got further and further away from you audi q7 um but yeah so i i want to do more of that I want I love speaking um it comes very naturally for me um and uh and I have a couple of um book proposals and works some special projects but uh yeah and so I'd love the space and time to do that without having to without having to leave my students all the time so yeah but you're just gonna to have new students.

They're just going to be different, right? Yeah. And they're going to send you money. And I will gladly accept it. And you will cash those checks, right? All right, we got to wrap this up. But I would like to kind of close this with, you know, perhaps a few words of wisdom that you could impart to, to somebody who, who, who

can identify with you physically, who's listening, who just feels scared or feels like, well, I see Myrna out there doing it, but I just, I don't know how she does that. Like I struck, you know, I don't want to use the struggle with my weight. God forbid I use that phrase after what you said, somebody who is in a situation where they don't feel healthy or they don't feel empowered in their own body, but they want to make a difference, but they just can't, they don't know where to start. Um, you, number one, the utmost important thing is practicing self-love. Um, and for a lot of people that is going to take you out of your comfort zone, because you probably don't know how to do it. There are lots of resources and whatnot, but

just looking at yourself and saying, I love you. And I am strong. I am powerful. I am able. powerful. I am able. I am capable. Those things, like having a mantra, you can even use somebody else's mantra and repeating those things to yourself. What are your mantras? I have so many. I really love this mantra by Dr. Christiane Northrup. I love myself unconditionally right now. And, you know, sometimes you just have to go through the motions of saying it. Eventually, you will start to believe it. But there is a lot of power in saying things out loud. Again, even if you don't initially believe it, you will start to believe it. Language has so much power.

Um, so get yourself a mantra, um, take somebody else's, say it to yourself. Um, whenever you are feeling doubtful, whenever, when you're feeling happy, when you're feeling powerful, just say it to yourself over and over again. Um, and I think that's, uh, for a lot of people, that's, it's an easy step. You don't have to buy anything. You don't have to really do anything differently. You're just stating that you love yourself. And then figure out ways to express that self-love, whether it's taking a walk or writing in a journal or doing morning pages.

It's something I used to do all the time. Oh, yeah, me too. The artist way, man. Yep. something I used to do all the time. Oh yeah, me too. Artist way, man. Yep. I recommend it constantly to people. Yes. I, you know, um, I don't do morning pages anymore, but when I did it, it changed my life.

Super powerful. Yeah. Um, you know, whatever it is, you gotta find, find ways, um, or find things that make you happy, um, that aren't hard to do and just incorporate those things into your daily routine. Um, and then it becomes a routine, uh, becomes a habit and then you can add onto that. Um, and then, uh, and find something that you might be interested in that maybe you think you can't do, or maybe someone has told you, you won't be able to do that. And God damn it, do it anyway. Just do it. You have to,

this requires a huge step out of your comfort zone, but you are not going to learn anything or progress if you don't step out of your comfort zone. So if you continue to stay in your own bubble, you're not going to be able to do something different. Yeah. At some point you have to take an action, right? You can read a zillion self-help books and intellectualize it all, but ultimately you have to put something into motion. Absolutely. And then find people, you know, find a tribe. Even if you're an introvert, People, you know, find a tribe. Even if you're an introvert, find a tribe.

Find people who are your cheerleaders, people who will do stuff with you, people who will tell you the truth. People that love you unconditionally because now you love yourself unconditionally. You have to find a tribe that replicates that. And yeah, do you you know maybe it's not running maybe it's not maybe it's not writing a book maybe it's I don't know swimming in a lake and whatever it is you know do it and find somebody that'll do it with you or even if not even if you don't find a buddy do it on your own there's so much power in doing things individually um yeah and all of these things you know i keep seeing that these things um have to

be a habit but it's true um if you don't have a habit of self-love if you don't have a have a habit of stepping out of your comfort zone um you won't experience growth so So the first step is creating that habit. Creating a habit. And the creation of the habit begins with the first act. Yes, absolutely. And the last thing I'll say is that nothing happens overnight. So know that whatever you are changing, whatever you're doing, whatever your goal is,

it is going to be a journey. you are changing, whatever you're doing, whatever your goal is, it is going to be a journey. It'll probably be, there will be moments of just of joy and amazement. And there will be moments of awfulness and where you just have to sort of be in the trenches and do the work. But that has tremendous implications for success. Yeah, those moments of awfulness can be the true catalyst for your ultimate growth, right? Absolutely. Don't try to avoid them or ignore them when they happen.

Understand that they're there for your own personal growth and learning. Yep. Beautiful. I think we did it. Yeah, cool. How do you feel? I feel great. A little good?

A little exhausting. I thought it was pretty good. You're a beautiful work in progress, Myrna Valerio. Thank you so much for talking to me. Thank you, Rich. Yeah, the book is great. Everybody should definitely run out to their favorite independent bookstore and buy it. And if you're too lazy to do that, there's always Amazon.

And you can track down Myrna pretty easily on the internet. Fat Girl Running is the blog, and she's the Myrnavator on Twitter and Instagram, right? Those are the best places, yeah? Yep, and also on Facebook, too. On Facebook, right. Myrnavator, Myrna Valerio-Myrnav places, yeah? Yep, and also on Facebook too. On Facebook, right. Myrna Valerio-Myrna Vader, and then also Fat Girl Running on Facebook. Is there like one place that you kind of focus on

more than the others or? Working on a website. Yeah, you don't have like a website website. I know, I know it's ridiculous, and yeah, I know, but not yet. All right, well that's coming, right? Yes. It's part of the work in progress.

It's in progress. Awesome. Do you have any speaking things coming up if people hear this? Since you don't have a website, you can go to your website to find out, right? Low key shade. Yeah. I'm doing a small book tour with via the collaboration of REI and Merrill. And so I will be in Raleigh, the Raleigh-Durham area. I'll be in Seattle, D.C., Framingham, near Boston and Atlanta.

And all those dates I typically post on my Instagram and my Twitter and all of my Facebook accounts. So you could always go to any of those accounts and see where I'm at. Does it maybe REI, do they have a schedule? REI actually does have a schedule posted somewhere. You know what, I'll find the link to that and I'll put it in the show notes, just so everybody can find it easily. All right, last question. Are you ready for this? How do you feel about singing a little bit to take us out?

You could say no, but I can't not ask you. Okay, because most people don't. Really? I was like, I have this Juilliard-trained opera singer sitting right here. I have to ask her to sing something. Okay. Yeah, I'll sing something. Okay, so, because I am warmed up, I will sing this. There's a lullaby that I really like in Spanish.

Cool. this there's a lullaby that I really like in Spanish cool by that was set to music well set to look at an instrumental version or not by a manual Okay, it goes like this. Duerme de lucerido de la mañana. Nanita nana Nanita nana Duerme de lo cerrito De la mañana Oh my God. Like, I knew you could sing. Unwarmed up version. I knew you could sing unwarmed up version i knew you could sing i had no idea that was unbelievable thank you wow you are touched by angels that was amazing what are what are the words to that It's the lullaby. Duérmete niño, duerme, sleep child, sleep. Sleep my soul, mi alma. Sleep little light, lucerito. Sleep little light of the morning.

But it's very poetic. Yeah. Wow. That was amazing. Thank you for doing that. All right. Will you come back and do another podcast? Absolutely. Thanks so much. Thank you. Peace. Insane, right? I told you it's unbelievable. Can you believe that that is her voice? Oh my God. What an incredible human being. What an inspiring conversation. Hope you guys that that is her voice? Oh my God. What an incredible human being. What an inspiring conversation. Hope you guys enjoyed that. Please make a point of hitting up Myrna on social media and letting her know what you

thought of today's talk. Also pick up her new book, A Beautiful Work in Progress. It's really a wonderful read. I think you guys all enjoy that. And make a point of checking out the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com for all these links to learn more about Myrna and take your experience of her world to the next level. If you would like to support my work, please subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts.

That's the one thing that you can do. It's free. It's simple. It doesn't take any time and it really does help us out with, uh, enhancing the show's visibility, extending reach, uh, hopefully growing the audience, which makes it easier for me to then book amazing guests to, uh, talk to and share with you guys. You can also share the show with your friends and on social media, leave a review on iTunes, Apple podcasts, uh, subscribe to my YouTube channel, youtube.com forward slash rich role.

Uh, we are filming all of the episodes going forward. We didn't film Myrna because this one took place in a hotel room and it's a long story. Nevermind. But in any event, all the episodes that are taking place at my house, at least we are filming them and got some really great, exciting, uh, conversations coming up for you guys. We also have a Patreon set up for people who would like to support my work financially. Thank you so much to everybody who has done that. I'm going to be scheduling and ask me anything, a live video AMA for Patreon supporters soon. I will let everybody know on the Patreon platform of that date. And you can, of course, follow me on Twitter and on Instagram at rich roll. How's the eating going? Are you guys struggling? We're what are we two weeks,

less than two weeks into the new year. Did you guys make resolutions about your diet, about your nutrition? Uh, did you decide to not take advantage of that crazy sale we had on the meal planner that was $20 off for like a week there. If you missed it, you can still check out the meal planner, meals.richroll.com, thousands of plant-based recipes. We have grocery lists. We have, uh, what else do we have? We have grocery delivery. That's all integrated with the recipes that you select when you live in, I think it's up to 60, maybe even 80 metropolitan cities right now. We have incredible customer support. This is a really amazing tool that I am behind 100%. I'm so proud of it. It's helping a lot of people. And it's basically $1.90 a week when you sign up for a

year, which is like really affordable. If your health is a priority, it's even more affordable. So to check it out, go to meals.richroll.com or click on meal planner on the top menu on my website, richroll.com. Okay. I want to thank everybody who helped put on the show today, Jason Camiolo for audio engineering, for additional production assistance, for interstitial music. He has been like my go-to compadre in this. He edits the show. He helps with the show notes. He helps create scripts for these introductions. He does a lot of work on the show.

So thank you, Jason. Sean Patterson for help on graphics, theme music as always by Annalema. Thanks. I love you guys. Good to be back here for a midweek episode and I'll see you back here on Monday. Until then, make it great.

Peace plants. Namaste. Thank you.