The Rich Roll Podcast - Orlando Bloom on The Spirituality of Extremes: Chasing Fear, Embracing Risk & Navigating Fame

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

This week, I am joined by Orlando Bloom, renowned actor and spiritual seeker, to discuss the intersection of extreme sports, personal growth, and the art of balance. Orlando shares his profound experiences with wingsuiting, free diving, and rock climbing, revealing the delicate tension between discipline and surrender. He offers candid insights into his upbringing, his mother’s influence, Buddhism’s transformative power, and navigating the complexities of fame. The conversation explores the nuances of preparation, trust, and letting go, drawing parallels between these high-stakes pursuits and life’s journey. Orlando’s vulnerability shines through as he discusses the evolution of his relationship dynamics and his commitment to making a positive impact through his work with UNICEF. Please enjoy! Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: LMNT: Science-backed electrolytes with everything you need and nothing you don’t. Get a FREE Sample Pack with any drink mix purchase 👉drinkLMNT.com/RICHROLL On: 10% OFF your first order of high-performance shoes and apparel w/ code RICHROLL10 👉on.com/richroll  Bon Charge: Wellness products designed to help you sleep better, recover faster, and boost your overall well-being. Use code RICHROLL to save 15% OFF  👉 boncharge.com  Birch: For 20% off ALL organic mattresses and 2 free eco-rest pillows visit 👉BirchLiving.com/richroll Momentous: Save up to 36% OFF your first subscription order of Protein or Creatine, along with 20% OFF all of my favorite products 👉livemomentous.com/richroll  SriMu: Get 22% OFF artisanally crafted plant-rich cheeses w/ code RRP 👉SriMu.com Waking Up: Get a FREE month, plus $30 OFF mindfulness resources 👉Squarespace.com/RichRoll Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors 👉richroll.com/sponsors

Why am I doing a Rich Roll podcast? What have I got to say? What is this? There's nothing. This is insane. What are you doing? My guest today is... Orlando Blue!

From films such as The Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Curse of the Black Pearl, as well as films such as Troy, Kingdom of Heaven, and Gran Turismo. You're known all around the world. What do people not understand about what that experience is like? I was freaked out. Freaked out! world. What do people not understand about what that experience is like? Mark, it's not an autograph, please. I was freaked out. Freaked out. It was crazy. It was bonkers. His latest offering is To the Edge, a limited docu-series in which he shoulders three

quite risky challenges. Wingsuiting, freediving, and climbing. I felt my life was in my hands, and so I was like terrified. Pushing the edges showed me that coming back to the center is a blessing. This one goes deep. I achieved more in my 20s than I thought I ever would. And I realized that most of those things that I thought was gonna make me happy didn't make me happy. I'm just so grateful for everything.

You know, all of it. Orlando, thank you for doing this, man. So nice to have you here. I'm thrilled to explore your life today. I enjoyed the show. I binged it last night. Thanks for watching. And just delighted to learn a little bit more

about who you are. Thanks, man. Well, thanks for watching. I'm so grateful to be here. I will say I feel quite open and vulnerable at the moment with the show coming out. The first half I've done unscripted and I, I of course read up on you a little bit as well. And you're amazing. And the people that you have on this show are like insanely amazing gives hope for society,

actually, in many ways. So I'm like, what am I doing here? I mean, listen, you've, you've lived an extraordinary life. And although the facts of your background are very different from mine, I think we share a lot of commonality in our proneness towards extremes and how pushing that edge can be a guru. It can be a way to explore darkness and light, to kind of dance with the polarities.

And I think your show really explores that. I think I had two, I mean, first of all, it's great. I loved it. And there's two kind of like main takeaways on a kind of top level, meta level from the show that resonated with me. And the first is that like you're a seeker and you're on this kind of path towards growth.

And the show is a way of exploring kind of where you were. I mean, that was like two years ago, right? When you actually filmed it, it was a while ago. Yeah, probably. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. A little less, but yeah. But in that window of about a year and a half, two years ago, yeah. Yeah, yeah, a little less, but yeah. But in that window of about a year and a half, two years ago, yeah.

Yeah, but it's sort of this capsule that illustrates where you're at on this trajectory, which is an ongoing thing, right? So I guess that was my first takeaway and I have questions about that. But the second one is really about these gifts that we find in exploring the extreme and how that is confronting for a lot of people

who would say that you should really be aspiring to a life that is in balance. So I guess the first question I would have is like, when people say like, just live a balanced life, can't you just like be in the middle a little bit? Like for me that ruffles my feathers and I've kind of gone full circle in how I process that, but I'm sure people say that to you.

Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, it's true. Don't disagree with any of that. Just find life to be more exhilarating on the outside of it, on the edges of it. And actually perhaps for me and for us sometimes pushing our edge and stepping out to that place is where you appreciate the center,

where you appreciate the middle ground. Because I would say in some ways, you know, I've been asked a few times what I would do again. Wingsuiting is one of the most exhilarating feelings and I would love to get back up there with Luke or Jack, he was amazing. But I've sort of simplified a little bit in some ways. I'm like, I'll keep doing these things and taking action. But like I'm finding taking action in my daily life, there are smaller things that just require bigger moments so that I'm going, oh, that's

just take action, keep doing it, keep doing what you're doing, keep moving forward. And actually pushing the edges show me that coming back to the center is a blessing. Appreciating the mundanity, the small moments. Yeah, which maybe I haven't historically. Yeah. So dancing in the extremes allows you to appreciate the meaning that you find in the small moments of everyday life, being a dad,

being able to be super present. All those sorts of things. Like being in the extremes forced this like uber presence. Like if I wasn't supremely present to my experience in that moment, particularly with wingsuiting because of the position of the body in the suit and what's required, I felt my life was in my hands. And so I was like terrified and I was like never more alive and feeling exhilarated

and so when i come home now it's sort of like just keep being present just what's how do i how do i focus on just how do i keep that presence alive and vital, right, in my life with my daughter, with my partner, with my family, with my friends, whatever, just with myself at times. And the half-life of that experience persists. In other words, you had that experience like two years ago, but you're still able to be present with what it taught you and bring that into your life? Or do you feel like you have to still go out and, you know and taste that in order to be present with that experience so you can be present in the moment? I would say that it was a reveal about the nature of my way of looking at life and thinking and the sort of habits that I had become,

had become like the habits that had become part of my life, the impulsive behavior, the impulsive nature of my life, which is easy to kind of look back over my life and see the history and why the where's and why's and how's all of that happened. I think that like, it showed me that like, I don't have to be on the edge to live and feel like I'm on the edge.

Do you know? Yeah, I mean, I think extreme peak experiences like wingsuiting or free diving or the climbing that you did in the show can be these teachers. They are gurus, but they can also be, like the dark side of that is that they can be escapes. They're a way to numb yourself or to run away from mundane moments,

to escape from the self. You can use them as a portal to explore your interior self and what makes you you, so that you can become the most authentic version of who you are. There's a self-actualization like piece to it. But I think also a lot of people use it as a way of running away from themselves.

And so understanding that difference and knowing where you are on, I mean, all these things are on a spectrum, of course. Like, am I using this to better myself, to become a more fully actualized Orlando? Or am I doing this because I have a hard time being present in my life and I need these peak experiences in order to kind of tolerate the mundanity

of the average life? Yeah, and I think you've just articulated it perfectly. Thank you so much. But yes, I think historically, my life was a lot of risk-taking, hence, you know, a multiple, you know, multiple visits to the hospital and a near loss of life at 20.

And actually that was a very recentering thing for me. But yes, I think the impulsive nature of my thinking and behavior up until i think the my desire for going into the show was the was to feel that in working with these experts in their fields um everyone from you know luke akins and camila jabbar and with with royalubridge and Mo Beck, amazing athletes, I was learning to unwire this impulsive nature and understand and respect that these, somehow we refer to these people as like adrenaline junkies

and people think that, but they're actually the most present supremely focused athletes and people I've ever sort of come across. Like Jack, who was on the ground in the show and he goes, you're not, when Monica, Luke's wife says, you're afraid. And he goes, you're not afraid, you're excited.

That guy is like, that guy is doing the wingsuiting through the passage. No, he's the dude. He's the dude. And for people that don't know Luke Aiken, I mean, he's the goat. He's the dude. And for people that don't know, Luke Aiken, I mean, he's the goat, right? This is the guy who jumped out of a plane at what was it like 25,000 feet without a parachute

and landed in that net. You know, it's like bananas. It's just like, who does that? Who even thinks of doing that? But he's great because he's so casual about the whole thing. And throughout the show or that episode, he's just throwing so much information at you so quickly.

And there's a couple shots of you, like you have this sort of ghost pallor, like, can I process all this? Like, I don't know if I can take it. Like it's life or death stuff too. And he's like, do this, do this. You'll be great. It's fine.

Like he's pretty, Mo with the climbing, she was the only one who was like, listen, dude, like if you don't get this right like it's it's you're dead yeah you're dead you know like she's giving you the truth and Luke was just kind of making it like this is all fun and games right right both of them incredibly prepared and methodical and then I walked to the plane with Jack occasionally and he'd be like yeah but you know he'd give me the few so like and monica as well by the way who's luke's other half who happened to be training me as well for the skydiving aspect was

who was amazing there was like it was the trifecta with all of them you're absolutely right about luke you've nailed that and he is wonderful and i couldn't have done it without him but there was aspects of like monica and Jack, both all tag teaming me in different ways with just a little word here or there. It was the trifecta that got me out the plane, quite frankly. Right, and the point being, like we see these clips on Instagram,

we were just talking about the wingsuit guy who like wingsuited into a flying plane. Like you see that and it's just insane and you can't help but think these people are on some kind of death mission, but their whole lives are devoted to the precision of this art and this sport that they're exploring. And you have to understand that.

And like your journey towards like appreciating the methodic way in which they've organized their entire lives in order to do this one thing is an antidote to the impulsivity that led you to fall off a three-story building and these other kind of adventures that have landed you in the ER probably more times than you wish to recall. Probably.

Yeah, we've had Alex Honnold in here a couple of times and he always gets asked like about fear and his relationship with risk and what you don't understand or can't appreciate. And what Free Solo was so great at kind of elaborating on was just how precise he is and how prepared and how long it took him to get to that place. And certainly it's still this unreal risk that he's taking, but his relationship to fear and risk is different

because he knew every nook and crag of that entire wall and anticipated everything that he could. I mean, there's certainly variables outside of your control, but he was as prepared as one could possibly be on planet earth matched with an unreal talent and level of preparation. And that's what doesn't get seen or appreciated. That's what you don't understand.

I kind of pointed that out in the press for the show. I was like, there's a 15 second clip that you see on any social media. And people think, oh, I'll just try that. Bye, see you later. Nice life, come back next time, let's try again. It's the dedication is insane and the focus and the commitment.

So people say, have you gonna do it again? I'm like, I wouldn't just, I can't, it's a lifestyle choice, you know, climbing, like finding a climbing buddy, finding something that a team of people that you would wanna go and do that with. And then, you know, scheduling's making, or, you know, free diving.

Like I went a couple of times after and just on my own, I took my friends when we were on vacation. And, you know, I went down to maybe 15, 20 meters, which was fine for me. But, you know, it's not something, you know, anything can kind of go wrong. Do you know what I mean?

You get to somebody watching you and there's nothing light or casual about anything that you do in these sports. Certainly with skydiving, it's great to get my license. I can just jump any, I could go jump right now. That's awesome. But like wingsuiting,

I may be the first person to have jumped on 25 jumps in a wingsuit. There is an insanity to that. Going up in the plane was crazy. The expedited schedule that you're on for all three of these disciplines is borderline reckless. I mean, it really is. And I think for me, like watching the show, the thing that was most confronting.

I'm borderline reckless. We're gonna get into it. You're feeling vulnerable, I'm gonnaline reckless. Yeah. We're gonna get into it. Okay. You're feeling vulnerable, I'm gonna exploit that. The thing that was most confronting was, or that came up for me in watching it, was control. Like I have control issues, I have trust issues, and all three of these disciplines require so much trust in other people and also in the gear.

And when I saw you climbing, it's like, I don't trust that gear. I don't trust anything any of those people are telling me. They're way too casual about this. Like, I just could not imagine putting my, I've done some extreme things in a whole different realm. But in this context, I had a real hard time.

I got queasy watching you climb. And I was like, I don't even understand how these ropes work. Is that really gonna help if he falls and all of that? I'm hanging on a nut. It's literally a nut, by the way. It's like there's a small piece, it's like a metal ball kind of that with a loop on it.

And then you kind of put that into a crab, it's pull it and they're like, oh, okay, that holds. Okay, boom, okay, I'm off, off we go. And then, I mean, listen, there's obviously in anything you do, you could cross the road and have that accident, but there was also taking responsibility for Mo, Mo's life. That was massive.

Really, really, really added a dimension that I hadn't expected because my life is one thing, right? But like, if I didn't get, and there is a movement and a physicality that years of muscle memory will teach you to do comfortably. But as she pointed out, like people will climb,

have climbed for two years before they attempt ancient art, right? Yeah. And I'm like, you know, not that experienced. So it was the muscle memory. And I was like, am I gonna be able to get this right? These knots, have I done? And there was a couple of occasions.

It's complicated. It's really complicated. And the knots are, yeah, I'm watching that. I was like, I don't understand how any, these knots, have I done? And there was a couple of occasions- It's complicated. It's really complicated. And the knots are, yeah, I'm watching that. I was like, I don't understand how any of this works. Yeah. But I think that, like, I'm trying to understand, like, what the takeaways are. Like, what is the metaphor for life in here?

And I think there's something about the tension between, you know, willfulness, in other words, like the preparation, like what you can control, what Orlando can control. Like I can do all the preparation, I can comport myself, I can be present while also having to embrace like a deep level of trust and surrender. So it's like self-reliance, but also this like letting go

that I think is instructive in terms of like, as like a rule book for life. Like how do you find the balance between those two things? Because all things, whether you have a goal that you're pursuing or you're preparing for a role in a movie or on stage, you do the preparation, you control the controllables. And then there's like a letting go

and like an allowing, right? Like what is gonna happen is gonna happen. And for me to execute on this goal, I have to kind of let go of all of that and just be as present as I possibly can. Yeah, that's right. And all three disciplines required a certain, a different kind of preparation and

focus and type of letting go, if you like. For example, dive was like, I was so possibly more scared in dive than anything else because I wondered if I would come back up. You know, I was like, am I just going to keep going? Cause I'm so, I love it. That's the one discipline where you can't push the edge because you still have to get up. And even in a competition context, the best when they rise to the surface and break the surface,

they still have that little routine that they have to do. They have to recite their name or whatever it is. Yeah, they can't just pass out as they come to the top or they get disqualified. So you have to know how to cut the cord before. The edge is right there, could be two feet from the top. That's the edge, it's not the bottom. The bottom is halfway.

And you've dropped all that way down, you know? And Will had had an attempt at like 90 meters, which should have been quite well, who knows what's doable, but he'd had an attempt at like 90 meters, which should have been quite well. Who knows what's doable, but he'd had an attempt and had a blackout near the surface like couple of days before I was there. And I was like, wait, what? And I don't, historically, we were saying

what we were touching on is my edge. What was my edge? Like impulsivity meant I had so many accidents because I didn't know, I don't know boundaries. I don't know my edges. So this was what the show was teaching me. So the reason I was so scared with diving was I just didn't know if I, not knowing my edge,

if I would come back up from that and not, you know what I mean? Yeah. And as Camila had pointed out, when you train for this, people will go to 80 meters and then they'll go to 81 meters and they won't go from 80 to 25, you know, 80 to 85, 85.

It's like, it's incremental, it's tiny increments. And it's a huge level of training. And I was doing this in four days. Right. But you hit 37 meters? Yeah. That's pretty good, dude. Yeah, I joined the 100 foot club. Yeah. It's pretty good, dude. Yeah, I joined the 100 foot club.

Yeah. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. I've done, I've flirted with free diving. I did a one day thing. I was in Malta. Yeah. In Gozo.

Oh yeah. You did Troy there, right? Yeah, yeah, we did do Troy there. And there was a guy there, he's like a four time world champion. And so I spent the day with him and I did a lot of those breath work exercises that you see in the show.

And I'm pretty good at that, I have a swimming background. But when we got to the water, I just couldn't figure out how to depressurize my head. Like the pressure, I couldn't clear it. And so I could only go, like the breath was fine. It was like, what do you call that when you're trying to like, yeah. Equalizing.

Equalizing, yeah, equalizing. I couldn't equalize and you ended up like injuring your ear like by blowing too hard or whatever. I think I pushed too hard and that was, and that was like really confronting with, you know, okay, this is my body and my body will not, as there's a gate that's being held. There's a boundary being put in place by my body,

which historically I've never. Well, your body is saying like, not so fast, buddy. Yeah, like this is a longer road. Yeah, I like to think the universe, but my body too, yeah. I mean, speaking of breath work that you did, when I did the death pet table. Yeah. That was next level.

That took you to a different place. That was crazy. You traveled, dude, because it suddenly, there was like this surge of emotion that came over you. I was crying, I was like, wait, what? I literally, I was like, I don't know what I just went into, but it was life and death related. And I was like, and I keep thinking,

well, why didn't I stop? The funny thing is like, my buddy was like, well, why did you keep doing it? Because I'm like, that's, I won't stop. That's part of what I had to- But where does that come from? Like where does that default setting, how did that get installed?

Where does the impulsivity derive from? Like what happened when you were a kid that like formed you in that way? So from zero to seven is when we get imprinted probably quite extremely, right? So my mother is amazing my mother is one of the greatest opportunities and for my growth and loves me like crazy but is also like was in boarding school the age of four in india when her uh in england when her

parents lived in india so that's kind of a unique situation in terms of like if you imagine like what her understanding of what nurture would be, right? So I'll give you two, a couple of quick stories, which, you know, I will preface with, my mother is remarkable and has given me life. And this is why I feel so blessed, right? And all of this, and thank you, I'm grateful. And my next door neighbors were Irish family, the McAvoy's.

And I remember the mother saying, Jesus Christ, I used to see you crawling over the rockery when you were an infant and thinking, that woman's gonna kill that child. Because like, you know, that was my life. And before the age of four, I was in and out of hospital. I think, and my mom has said to me, which she probably like regrets now in some ways,

but I think it's sort of interesting that actually they said, do you love yourself? Because if he's back in hospital again, we're going to have to think about what's going on because I fell out of a tree and broke my arm. I think she was picking wood up in the garden and I'd like, my head was banging against this aluminum frame that she was carrying me

on her back with. So I cracked my skull. I fell off a stool and cracked my skull. I mean, you know, this is before I'm conscious enough. So, right, so if you think like, and then when I broke my back at 20, I went to see the school therapist because it was a near death experience

that had profoundly impacted my life and thinking in ways that I probably, like I'm like a can do guy. I'm like, I can push through anything because my mom used to give me, you can do it. That's what my mom gave me. So you can do it. And I'm like, I can do it.

You know what I mean? So I had that attitude of everything. But when I had this therapy session, it was like, so have you been injured before? And I was like, yeah. And I went through the list, which was like on both hands. You can add it up. And she was like, hmm.

So there's a pattern we could say. And I was like, hmm, so there's a pattern we could say. And I was like, oh yeah, I suppose there's a pattern. And it was through that process of counseling at the school and realizing that I'd had a pattern of every couple of years, nearly like breaking or doing something that was very, you know, that led to me being in hospital close, you know, that I was like being in hospital or close, you know, that I was like, oh, oh, is this attention?

What am I looking for here? You know, what is it that I've not been getting, right? What is it that's missing? And so in a way, you know, is the show all about one big attention? It was like, is my whole life like one giant scream for attention from Right, right, right, right. But like, I know, you know, through the years of therapy

and the years of different ways of thinking that, yeah, of course on one level, but like, I think there are so many, you know, levels to all of this thinking, but I think, you know, what is the takeaway for somebody who's gonna watch this? Who's maybe had all of their own stuff, right? Because we're all like on this journey, right?

We're all, I believe interconnected and having this experience and, you know, we're little satellites going around. We're little, you know, if you broke us all ourselves down, wouldn't we be about the same as a galaxy anyway, right? So I see us as little galaxies running in and out of each other, right? So it's like, I don't know, I just was like, well, maybe anything I do here pushing my edge

will be something where somebody goes, well, I ain't doing that, that's crazy. Okay, don't, don't jump out of a plane. I'm not suggesting you do that. But what is that edge for you? Find that edge and do that so that maybe you can come back to center. I'm not saying live in that space. And I'm also not suggesting that I wasn't blessed enough to have amazing teachers, as we've

just said, help guide me through it. But I do like the idea of taking myself out of my comfort zone. And like, that's kind of why I'm sitting here, honestly, because in a way it's the last thing I want to do is be invulnerable on a a camera. That's why I haven't done podcasts. You're new to podcasting. Exactly. Well, you're here right now. I'm gonna push you out to the edge of your comfort zone because there's always growth there, dude.

You are a seeker. Let's seek together. What are we gonna discover? Listen, you've got a lot more interesting people who've been seeking a lot more interesting subjects on this. I think to your point of we all are imprinted on some level at a very young age based upon how we were parented and how we kind of just came in genetically into the world.

I mean, there's truth in that. And I share that desire for approval and then also like never quite feeling like I was getting it, which fuels more and more and more and more extreme behavior. You know, that led me- So then you feel like the imposter. Well, oh yeah. It's like Rumi says, right?

Orlando, they're gonna come in here and drag me out of here before this podcast is over. Trust me. They'll get me first, don't worry. I'll say, take me. People pleasing, you know, being a chameleon, who do you need me to be? I had a whole kind of dark exploration and substances,

anything to check out. And extreme sports can be a version of that. But I do think that you've leveraged this for growth. So where did the impulse to be on this journey towards growth come from? Like it's one thing to be an extreme sport towards growth come from? It's one thing to be an extreme sport athlete and be attracted to that, like a moth to the flame.

It's another thing to say, I wanna grow, I wanna evolve, and I'm game for anything that's gonna help me expand. Like, I feel like that is a default setting that you have. Yeah, I think that started a long time before the show though, right? Sure, I mean, yeah, this dates back, I don't know when that began. Do you have a sense of when that kind of came online

for you and why? Probably surprisingly young. I think I just, I wanted to be not where I was in some ways or I wanted to be like, I had this, it's so funny. Like I grew up with a lot of watching a lot of American style TV and shows and stuff like that in England. But, and I think like there's aspects of, you know,

my childhood that were, would challenge me in different ways. And I had a very happy childhood in many ways, like a really solid middle-class upbringing, really beautiful home, lots of, but there's something that meant I wanted to be away. I wanted to get somewhere else. Like I remember envisioning in this,

I was in the gym at school and I imagined myself flying in as Superman to grab my girl and then this girl who I had a crush on when I was nine years old, I was gonna fly out with her or something. So I had all these, I think in some weird ways because of the backstory of my father, which is very complex and has been talked about a lot,

but I didn't, you know, I had this idea of who my father was because my mother had told me that my father was Harry Bloom. And then I found out- Who was a civil rights activist in South Africa, like an anti-apartheid activist, right? Yeah, like a hero in my mind.

Yeah, yeah. He'd written a book called Transval Episode and he was in prison with Nelson Mandela, who was like this hero in my mind. So until I'm 13, I've like got this heroic view of a man that like my mom has given me a little bit, but my imagination is just, you know, I have no idea who that guy was.

You know what I mean? Right, he passed away when you were four, right? And he was gone even before that, right? So you never really had a relationship with him. He was present, but he was in the house, but I have one memory of that. So I think I had this idea, I had create my imagination had created an idea of a man,

right, that was based on the framework of who Harry Bloom was. And then my father who was in my life, but I didn't know he was my father. He was my legal guardian who is like, I have just a wonderful relationship with still and, and continue to, he was in business with my mother, but he was also like,

he was younger. He was 10 in business with my mother, but he was also like, he was younger. He was 10 years younger than my mother. And he was in an office in the bottom of the house, like trying to build this business out at foreign language school. And I'd sort of see him at weekends and we'd go and like walk and build like huts. And then I'd, you know, stay with him for weekends.

But I think he was struggling as well. His own masculinity was struggling at that time with trying to build a business, not being with my mom probably, or being confused about whatever that was. He was 24 when he, you know, well- And it was a consensual thing that he would father you. Like it's a complicated, weird thing, right?

I have no straight answer for you on any of all that. You still don't know the answer. There's my mother's story and then there's, you know, and then there's his story. There's a lot of ambiguity. Yeah, ambiguity, but that created a lot of uncertainty, I would imagine being a young kid trying to figure out, you know, where you feel safe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also like this incredibly eclectic household. I mean, it sounds like your mom was really supportive and she was able to see that you had this imagination and this artistic sensibility. And she really fueled that.

Like she really supported that. She was like fully throwing everything. My mom was the one who got me to do Bible reading. And like, sorry, there was the Kent Festival, which was a Canterbury festival where you do poetry, prose, Bible reading. And I did all of them and I won all the competitions. And I was a kid and like basically got the cups

and I was like, yay, I did it. Mommy, I did it. You know, she was the one who was like, took me to, drove me to teachers who were like, this is how you recite this poem. This is how you say this piece of text. This is how you read this piece from the Bible. And then you would like sit in front of like teachers

or not teachers, but judges. And then you'd see if you came first, second or third. Yeah, and you were naturally good at that or you got good at it pretty quick. I was probably good and I also worked at it and it was something that kind of gave me, that was a really strong foundation. Although I will say that I had terror

when it came to stage fright. You know, and if you, like just before this, I've been wrecked coming down here in the car, bro. You know what I mean? I've been like. And if I have to say anything publicly, you know, which is random because here we are without a script, I'm like, I'm just gonna put my foot in my mouth.

Oh God, my humor doesn't work. You're still that, you're very charming though. You should, it's not rational that you feel that way. You know that. Well, there you go. There's nothing very rational about who I am, but I live it. But it's like, I don't know that, I think that's part of what it is as well,

was looking at like the emotion versus the rationale, right? And then if you think, you know, I mean, I can unpack all of this, but it's not really a therapy session, is it? I don't know. I don't know, maybe it is. But it's like- But I think there's instructive aspects

to this story. I've unpacked a lot of this. There's a lot that's instructive about this. I mean, I think- Is it helpful? Is it helpful? I think understanding that your mom was so supportive and saw this in you and realized like this is what needs to be nurtured in this kid and to see you kind of thrive and ascend in that world so much so

that you ended up leaving school or leaving home at like 16, right? So you're in London, you're just a kid. Well, I went to boarding school at 11 actually. Oh, 11, so you were out of the house, you were like, 11 I was out of the house. You were having to take care of yourself at a very early age.

So, I mean, that seems to me to be related to the question of like what instigated this desire to be on this growth journey. Like you had to figure things out for yourself. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I've had to, I definitely went on a, I've been on a long journey of self-discovery.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. As much as we try to learn about ourselves through peak experiences and extreme sports and the like, the hardest lift and the most courageous act is to understand that the real answers that you're searching for are really not gonna be found there. And they're gonna be found only by going inward. And none of us really wanna do that.

You know, that's a very challenging, inconvenient thing to do. It's kind of lonely. It can be quite lonely, that process. Well, cause it's on you and you alone, you know? And there's nobody telling you that you have to. I know I listened to your podcast with Trevor Noah and you said something along the lines of how Katie,

your partner is sort of demanding your evolution or not, that's the wrong word demanding, but like is pushing you, right? To always be growing. And that's, Julie's here, like that's something that I think we share. And that is a fantastic thing to have in your life. Somebody who sees you for who you are,

who holds a vision for the better aspects of you and can see how you can be better and is not willing to just accept you for who you are, but is expecting you to grow in lockstep, but it also makes it difficult. It's hard. Who wants to do that? It's a choice, right?

Nobody's saying you have to do that. You have a great life. And so it would be easy to coast, right? It's all good. I don't have to do all this other shit. Yeah, no, I can't do that. The balance of life is for me in, putting myself in other positions.

I feel, I mean, one of the things that I'm most grateful for really is the opportunity to work with UNICEF, which I've had for 20 years now. And I think the first thing I said to UNICEF basically was, I said, I'll go anywhere nobody else wants to go. I was like, you can send me there. You know, if they don't like, you know, the worst places, I'll go there. Because I'm like, you can send me there. If they don't like the worst places, I'll go there. Cause I'm like, that's where. And so, like I was in Liberia, the tail end of Ebola, and that was so terrifyingly shocking. And I was in pretty unique places with them that,

and I remember when I first went, I went to Nepal for my first trip and it was like a soft touch. It was like, here, do this. You know, I even went to a tiger sanctuary or something. You know what I mean? It was like introducing him to this. And I remember-

You'd wanna go to Nepal anyway. Right, exactly. And I remember sitting at the top of this village, in this village, and I was like, wow, this is like a billion dollar view, by the way. Like, it's, I mean, it's like, you just look, and all around me are was like, wow, this is like a billion dollar view, by the way. I mean, it's like, you just look, and all around me are these like, is a community that was really struggling

because they didn't have a tap, a tap, right? So the kids, the daughter, this young woman was walking two and a half miles up a hill to collect water that was contaminated, right? And this is 20 years ago. So they were putting water in plastic bottles on a corrugated iron roof. So the sun would go through, it would kill all the,

but then they're getting all the plastic too, right? Which we know now, but like that was, at least they weren't getting sick from drinking the water. And it was basically the women in this community who had done a map and they were like, so this is the little lake and this is the woods. And this is the houses and the huts that people live in. And this is the one they don't have an outhouse.

So we're trying to get them to put a little outhouse so that they're not defecating anywhere because basically kids are dying from, you know, the disease of, you know, diarrhea. It's like, we'll kill a kid under two like this, you know what I mean? And in these communities, and I was like sitting there thinking what do i have to do what do i have to do to be able to have an impact in a big way for this community for these for this

for the for the things that go there and i think that part of doing the show is and and all of this is that sometimes i just don't wanna keep pushing myself out there, because it's just a lot. Because I think when you're trying to do something good in the world, you just get swung with the negative. You know what I mean? Like the backlash is just, do you ever feel that? That when you're trying to message really good things,

you get the yin and yang of life, right? Yeah, it just comes with it. And I'm super aware of that. Not nearly on the level that someone like you must have to experience that. Well, I'm super aware of it. So I'm like, I'm gonna do this now and I'm gonna get this then. You know what I mean?

It's like, so I like literally have to go, okay, I'm gonna do this podcast now and try and put a lot of positivity and messaging out. And I guarantee you, I'm gonna get a slap on the back from the universe at some point. But you know what I mean? It's like a setup. It's literally like, it is a set. And I guarantee you, I'm gonna get a slap on the pack from the universe at some point. But you know what I mean? It's like a setup.

It's literally like, it is a set. I feel like sometimes I'm like, is it a setup? Is this a simulation? Are we like literally, you know what I mean? But my Buddhist practice would have me go, that works too, whatever. Just pour more love on it. Yeah.

Well, what it demands of you is to really look at your relationship with the opinions of other people. Right? And this is like a huge thing for me. Okay, you can take that out now. You can take that out now. Yeah, but you can't be you without having to contend with that though, you know?

But I'm sure there's an emotional, you know, still cost to that. That's the one. That is the one for cost to that. That's the one. That is the one for everyone, right? That's the one. So you have a choice. You can be a shut-in and do nothing, or you can do what it is that you're here to do

and share your gifts and try to do good and let the chips fall as they may. That's right. Yeah. Give less fuck. But it's gotta be tough. I mean, you're known all around the world and your partner is known all around the world.

Like this is like a Wonder Twins powers activate situation where I'm sure you guys can't go anywhere. Like how do you- We do, we do, we do. You do? Yeah, yeah, we do, we do. We're very good at that. She's very good at that.

She was always good at that. Yeah, we get on with it. This isn't 2006. I remember what it felt like to be Justin Bieber with Hailey Bieber. I remember what that felt like. It's a different time. And thankfully, gratefully, and we're good at it.

We're good at it. She's always been good at it. And I've always been, I got good at hiding, which wasn't good actually. Like hiding from the world or hiding from yourself? Like just like, like I was just hiding so that I didn't, I think it played out in a lot of ways, but there was a period where I just couldn't go anywhere.

So I used to ride motorbikes to get from A to B. I wore a baseball hat or I had a hat, I had a hundred different hats. Peak Lord of the Rings time? It was pirates really. Yeah. Lord of the Rings, I was in a blonde wig. It was hard to, but it was pirates, through pirates and all this stuff.

2006 on, my mom had this article. I always talk about this because it must play into my ego. My ego loves this story, so I'll tell you. But my mom kept this article from the New York Times saying that I was the most, she was like, darling, you're the most Google person on the planet for four years now. It's in the article most, she was like, darling, you're the most Google person on the planet for four years now, it's in the article.

And it was like, above Britney Spears. That's a lot though. So how do you even like mentally process that? I was freaked out, freaked out. She was like, we've got to do something with the internet to do, I'm like freaked out. No, we're not doing anything, I'm hiding. I'm going under this shell and I'm just gonna come out and be on set and I'll do my best to, you know,

no idea, that was a lot. It all happened really fast. I mean, you booked and landed Lord of the Rings like right as you graduated from drama school, right? You've done other things, it wasn't your first thing necessarily. I mean, I'd moved to London when I was 16 and I asked like a crazy person to get anything.

Yeah, it was a lot. And you were what, 20? 20, yeah. Yeah. That's pretty, you know, that would be enough to derail anybody. Yeah. Drugs and alcohol was never a thing for you though,

was it? Yeah, it was. You didn't get into big trouble with that or anything, did you? I had more, I think, you know, cause I was on my own at 16 in London. I had more, I did a lot of drugs and had a lot of alcohol, but I had that Buddhist practice.

And I remember that David who had shakabuki me, which means introduce me, had sort of, I'd said to him, I was like, I even remember saying like, so you're saying I could like chant for like more of this, more of that and more of this. And I was like really into this girl and whatever it may be. And he was like, yeah, do what, chant for all of them.

Chant for your self-serving needs and desires. Because it was, because there's this phrase which earthly desires lead to enlightenment. So the earthly desires of me seeking these things, these negative parts, I would wake up in these crazy situations where I shouldn't be at that age. And I'd be like, I shouldn't be here.

Okay, where should you be? Not here for starters. Okay. Well, let's step out of this. And then it was like, David also, you know, shared the teachings of Daisaku Ikeda, who's my mentor. So I would be reading little bits and I'd be like, words like integrity or wisdom or courage or compassion were starting to filter through my,

which I was finding through reading. Nobody had told me to. So it was like a part of this edge self, the self-education tool thing. But with my probably undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia and like a lot of things, I was like, everything was had to be experienced to be understood.

So, you know, it's been a very, very interesting learning curve over the years. And I think that I was disciplined enough, self-regulated enough to know that I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna live in Canterbury. You know, I'm born in 77. So there was a period where, you know, there was a thing of like, go out and be your own,

you know, there was a statue, go out and be your own hero and build your own, you know, all of that. So I think in a way it was like, I was just, I wanted to build and I had a taste for really good things and I could mix with people from the estate and the estate means like an area where it was like, low income housing or whatever,

like some public housing situation. And then I'd have like a boarding school that I was going to where there were like kids who were like, you know, low-income housing or whatever, like some public housing situation. And then I'd have like a boarding school that I was going to where there were like kids who were like, you know, and so, and I just kind of, I don't know, I never felt like I was one thing or another. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I get it, I get it, I get it. I mean, this idea, you're not gonna go home to Canterbury,

you're gonna continue to pursue this thing, but you're touching up against like some crazy experiences and you know well enough, like, hey, that flame's too hot, but I've gotta figure out a way. I've gotta figure out a way of living for myself that's gonna work. I'm still going there. And you have this Buddhist practice

that is as philosophical as it is faith-based. Like it is this roadmap, this sort of art of living kind of philosophy. That's right. And for me- How did that come in? Explain how that originated for you. So I was 16 and I was 17, sorry, 17 probably.

So I did sculpture, photography, and theater studies, knowing that I wanted to be an actor. School, knowing that I needed art and creativity for my imagination and knowing that like education had been a actor, school, knowing that I needed art and creativity from my imagination and knowing that like education had been a real challenge up until that point. And I'd taken a ton of extra classes to get it, any of it, but I got it all of it, but like, it was hard.

So, but for my sculpture exam, I had, I was really good at just sitting and like, you could just put something in front of me and I'd be like, and I'd be like, whoa, cool. But I had no, I hadn't done a piece of drawing and I had to have drawings to back up every piece of sculpture that I made. And I had to have to show the thought process

that went into it. And then I had a 15 hour still life drawing exam, a 15 hour oil painting exam, along with my 15 hour sculpture exam. And my teacher sort of told me this like three months before the exams and all that. And I was like, wait, what? It's like an endurance event.

And I was like, my brain just like, cause I was hanging, like I needed those grades for drama school, whatever. I just like, you know. So my best friend, Mark, who's like my brother who I've known since I'm 13 has, and is like literally, you know, saved my life in many ways,

was like the reason I moved to London, helped me get to London and stuff. Introduced me yet again, coming in to save my life to this artist, David. And David lived in the hometown next to me. And every weekend for about, for every weekend leading up to the exams, I went down to Folkestone and I,

and he would set me up on the knees or when he'd go here, just look at yourself in the mirror and paint this. And they'd use these. And I'd hear him in the other room and he'd go, Nam-myo-ning-yo, Nam-myo-ning-yo, Nam-myo-ning-yo, Nam-myo-ning-yo, Nam-myo-ning-yo, Nam-myo-ning-yo. So one day I go, what are you doing? He goes, I'm chanting that you're going to be really successful

in your life and that you're going to have this like great, you're going to do amazing in your exams. All that. I go, oh, cool. Well, will it help? He goes will it help he goes yeah okay cool so i get down on my knees and i'm just like i start chanting right and then i'm trying to the moon i'm in this like exam for sculpture and there's a whale bone and a and a and a grapefruit or something i'm painting and i'm like i'd be looking at it i go to the bathroom come back out and i'm like, I'd be looking at it. I go to the bathroom, now I'm yawning, you're gonna be yawning, come back out and I'm like, okay, fine, carry on.

Anyway, got the highest exam, got the highest grade in the, I believe they asked to keep my work. Cause I think they were like, this is the grade that we want following year to, has to hit. So we'd like to keep your work in the highest grade in the country kind of thing.

I got whatever I was like. And I was like, oh, well, this is working out. Yeah, and you're like, this chanting thing. What else did I jump for? That was enough proof for you to look more deeply into whatever this tradition is. Earthly desires leads to enlightenment was a big one for me.

Because I think I, in my young life, in my twentiess, I achieved more in my 20s than I thought I ever would. And I realized that most of those things that I thought was going to make me happy didn't make me happy. You know, like making a lot of money, making more money than I probably ever would need to have made, you know, just meant I wanted to need to make more money to keep up the things that I was buying that I didn't need. You know, there's a whole slew of it. You know, it's like, we're all just over consuming, right? We all just think we need that. And I'm still doing it. Trust me, still doing it. But I'm so much more aware, but I'm like, let go, let go, let go, let go, let go, let go. And the show was just like, oh, so you need to be near death for you to understand that. And that would work if you look at the framework

of like probably nearly dying many times. So it's like, so force yourself into that so that you springboard into growth for me. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, the experience of falling off the building and breaking, falling out of trees and all that kind of stuff on some level, like, oh, the universe is trying to get your attention.

Maybe this isn't the best way to go about things. I know what we can do. Let's give him everything he wants. And then maybe he'll discover something about himself in that process. Like all the earthly desires satisfied. Now, who are you? Yeah.

Now, what are you gonna do, what are you gonna do? Where are you gonna find meaning? What is purposeful about your life? What is your, where are you calibrating your compass? To have that lesson at an early age, look, that experience buries a lot of people, right? But for you to be able to extract that kind of wisdom out of it to reconfigure your priorities,

I think is there's something inspirational about that. Oh, thanks very well. To be gifted with that experience of not only you were presented with this Buddhist idea as a young person, a lot of young people would have just said, that's weird and have no interest, but there was something inside of you that was like, I'm gonna move towards that.

Like that seeker thing, I think that is inherent in who you are. I actually got to meet my mentor, which is a huge deal. You were saying before we met that you met the Dalai Lama and I've met the Dalai Lama a couple of times, amazing human, amazing to be in his presence, right? Daisaku Ikeda was not somebody anyone could meet really. And it was very like, he's a unique,

he's no longer with us, he passed recently, but I was in Japan with this friend of mine from LA, this really powerful, strong Buddhist woman, symbiote was like, he's gonna meet sensei, I'm making this happen. so she put out a call to say i was there in a way because i'd been there countless times actually for publicity for movies and she got a response to say okay that daisaku akeda was um wanted to meet me and i think there were a lot of really there's a lot of amazing members in my

organization for across the world. And one of them is this therapist from London, friend of mine, married to Sandy Shaw, amazing guy. He was saying, I couldn't understand why he would meet you. And then I realized he must've been wanting to suss you out. He wanted to see, because I had at that time a huge following. I couldn't go anywhere following, which was not harnessed by platforms on the internet. It was just, you know, it was just out there. And I think he probably wanted to size me up. So I remember meeting him. I had to get up on stage at this rock festival and say,

the environment, I was just saying something like, you know, it was like crazy. And all these Japanese, cause I had a big following there, went crazy. And then I got taken in a car and I got on a train and I went with these amazing buddhas who just like had a sandwich for me and a bottle of water and then were talking to me about what I was about to do which was to meet my mentor and I was like okay then I was like and I remember getting off this bus and seeing him. And I literally, kid you not, I was like, oh, I've done this before.

In that moment, I was like, oh, we've, this, other lifetimes? What? That was, it was, I've got goosebumps going through me as I remember that. Wow. And I got off the bus and I went over and I gave him this mask. And he pulled me back and he went, boom, boom. He smacked you? Like this, he was like, but it was like, it was so,

it was like, and then he held me and looked at me and he went. Because I think, first of all, culturally, you don't run up to a Japanese. You don't, you know what I mean? He was constantly teaching. And I looked at him and then we went on this journey through the Nagano Training Center.

And I just remember he was, we were in this golf cart and there were people and it was felt like I was on this roller coaster. I felt like I was on a flying carpet, honestly. And then, you know, he was, he, I had actually David was with me and my best friend from the show, Chris was there as well. I think you remember the blonde Gibbo and my sister.

And he said, I'm giving you this award. I wanna give this medal to your mother. I want you to take this home to your mother. And I was like, you know, and I was like, wow. So. What's coming up for you right now? What is that?

I don't know dude. My mom, so I gave her this, I just feel very, yeah, I don't know man, I'm just, it was I think the moment remembering that, cause my mom is somebody that I'm constantly learning to evolve and grow the relationship with a boundary that I can navigate and feel safe. We were talking before the podcast

about the experience of visiting with the Dalai Lama and his recurring message around the mother's love for the child as a pathway towards compassion and forgiveness and understanding that how we think of ourselves as individuals is an illusion. You were talking about like the, you know, like we're all one, we are all connected and a vehicle or like a portal for really embracing that

is being able to connect with that mother's love. And there's something about him deciding that the award should go to your mother that feels related to that in the sense of, it's him recognizing that like his mother's love for you, like what she nurtured in you allowed you to become the person you are. And I think that it's all mothers.

I think that when he refers to the mother, or when you're talking to the Dalai Lama, it's the mother, all mothers. He wrote this amazing piece of dialogue, which he said to, and I would love to, there's just the one line in it is, that I would love to share briefly. Cause I think it's something that you might appreciate is,

he talks about a great future lies ahead of you. We will see a transformation of history from the revolution of the external environment to that of the inner self, the human revolution. It will be an age in which the action of leaders will naturally be based on the guidelines of making all mothers happy. And I don't think that, you know, we can always understand that, the depth of that. You know, there's this interesting time we're living in, but it's, and it's constantly for me it's this constant like like the love relationship with my mother is such a such a unique thing

and and it and it forces me to grow in such an amazing way you know and it's the reason why i'm here i remember when i was in doing lord of the rings i wrote this fax because we're only faxes there's no emails and i wrote this fax, because we're only faxes, there's no emails. And I wrote this fax to my mom and I just said, cause I was having probably, that was like Nirvana of an experience, you know, of a time in my life. I was the age wise playing Legolas,

you know, this ethereal being that was like, you know, so just like, and imbuing that, cause I'm a hundred percent committed. I'm not a method actor, this ethereal being that was like you know so just like and imbuing that because i'm 100 committed i'm not a method actor but like i'm i really try to shift my my makeup when i go into a character but i wrote this letter to my mother and i said i just want you to keep this facts mom because i'm just so grateful for everything you know all of it because actually like that was it was i wouldn't be here i wouldn't be on this set with these people if whatever you had done hadn't worked and even if you knew it or not you know what i mean and all of it you know because i think i think we're all you know i don't know

like are we all coming back lifetimes are there different do you feel like you met people who've like oh they've done this a million times yeah i feel like there are people who just go, oh, there's an ancient wisdom there. How many times have we done this podcast together? So I'm like, but like, I would say my mother, I would say perhaps I've been here. I would say in some ways, I don't know, but like there are aspects of my mother where I'm like, wait, wait, what?

This is the, wait, and then come back to no. Okay, this is the way and then come back to no. Okay, this is the lesson. This is the lesson. So what am I gonna do with it? But the gratitude seems like a consistent thing with you. Has to be. Yeah, does that come easy? Or do you have to work on that?

I think when you say, you're just basically saying, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful. So no, I work on it all the time. No, are you kidding me? My head is like, I mean, it's untethered. You saw the show.

Throughout the show, there's a kind of recurring motif of you chanting the mantra. And there's something funny about it too. Like there's a comic. I mean, if anything's going to get memed out of the show, prepare yourself for that. You know what I mean? Meme away. However we can get the messaging out there. You know what I mean? Listen, it would have been an easier and safer choice to just leave that part out. You know what I mean? Let's just make a show. You're jumping out of planes. You're doing all this

stuff. And clearly you were like, no, this is central know what I mean? Let's just make a show, you're jumping out of planes, you're doing all this stuff. And clearly you were like, no, this is central to what I wanna say. To my life, it's my life. And what do you want people to take from that? That I was always looking for a roadmap. I was confirmed in the Cathedral of Canterbury by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

That is no. Yeah, that's some real shit. That's a big deal. Yeah. You can't knock Jesus. And you have like 10 names. Yeah. What's your full name? Orlando Jonathan Blanchard Copeland Bloom.

It's a mess. Yeah. It's a mess. You just need like a duke or lord or whatever attached to that. You can't, so you can't knock Jesus, right? But I used to see him on the cross. I'd sing hymns and Psalms and chapel every morning. And I'd be looking at him.

I'd be like, I feel so bad, but I didn't put you there. I'm so sorry you're there. And it was maybe through the teachings as well. And I had an amazing school chaplain, by the way, who was just like basically love, you know, like, but for whatever reason, so, but I was like, so I met the practice at 16 because I hadn't, you know, I hadn't found a church or something, but I knew I needed a philosophy or a practice because it's, I think I'm just inherently also quite spiritual. or a practice, cause it's, I think I'm just inherently also quite spiritual. So everything is dialed slightly that way,

whether it's journeying with medicine or whatever it may be, it's always got that element to it. But I think that, you know, I saw, I think it's just was my journey, my path to understanding that we are all connected. We are, you know, what you do to somebody else

will come back to you, whether that be good or bad. And that unless we're all happy, none of us are happy, not really. So I can get all of these things, we can go out and I can keep accumulating and I can have all these things. But did it make me happy? That like the process of like, yeah, of course, like when I'm driving really fast in my Porsche,

I'm like, that's really fun. But I can enjoy that moment. But what makes me most happy is when I'm standing on the edge of the village that actually had a tap and that there were prayer flags and there were classrooms and they were just living, like with just being able to have water, right? But like, so I don't know, like, yeah, I mean,

I'm a big hippie at heart probably. I'm like a big old- The hippie from Canterbury, grown in the church of England. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm a big hippie at heart probably. I'm like a big old- The hippie from Canterbury grown in the Church of England. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm a mess of experience. Yeah, it's interesting to be raised in the church in that way and then connecting

with a different faith tradition and having that resonate with you and with staying power. Like from 16 on, it wasn't a flirtation. There've been times in my life where I haven't chanted as consistently, but the fundamental practice and that thing, and I'm always saying it, even when I'm not,

if I don't sit in front of my Gohonzon every morning, but I do now more and more. And actually through these conversations, I've realized how much I need to get my study up. So there were three parts of my practice, practice, study and sharing. And it's like, I need study so bad. You're doing a lot of sharing right now.

And I need the study. And I'm like, oh, come on bro. What makes this tradition different from Zen Buddhism, Tibetan, other variations of Buddhism? For me, it's very user-friendly. It's very taking action. I do meditate by the way, I do TM, but I find that yoga for the mind,

but this is like, my eyes are open and I'm about taking action in this moment. It's very accessible. There is amazing wisdom by Daisaku Ikeda that I can get very easily, little snippets. I can go as deep as I want. If I want to deep go like study the ghost show and go deep into what, you know,

the thinking of Nishranda Shonin was that brought this teaching to the world. I can go back to Shaka Muni. I can, it kind of encompasses everything. And there's a mystical aspect, which is completely unfathomable, which plays into the part of my magical thinking, which is how am I even here?

So for me, it's the trifecta, it's the perfect package. It's the art of living. And I'd encourage anybody who wanted to chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. You say it after me, will you? Will you say Nam? Nam. Myoho. Myoho.

Renge. Renge. Kyo. Kyo. Now you never have to say it. I can't say it after me, will you? Will you say nam? Nam. Myoho. Myoho. Renge. Renge. Kyo. Kyo. Now you never have to say it. I can't say it as fast as you. I don't know how you. Myoho. Renge. Kyo.

Nam. Myoho. Myoho. Renge. Kyo. So now like I believe, and I said this to Jay, you never have to say that again, but my practice, my faith has taught me

that you've just protected seven generations in your past and seven generations in your future. I believe that for you. So you have. And that's my faith. That sounds wild, but I believe that. Now, if you imagine, let's take that forward. This lifetime is just in preparation

for the next lifetime, right? I'm an eternal Buddha. I'm gonna keep coming back. If I, maybe that gives me a certain, it's like my cape. It's like Superman's cape. I mean, I've gone flying. You know what I mean?

It's like my protection. Maybe that thinking because of my upbringing is what helps me, right? Like I respect all people of faith. I do think that faith has led to some catastrophes around the world. But like my parents-in-law, my and Katie's parents, pastors, and always praying. And when they pray for me, I feel that and I respect it.

And I feel it deeply. And I know that they're protecting me. That's beautiful, man. But I know also that for me, like access to is what works. So, you know, check out the sgi.org. Yeah. And they don't want money from you.

That was the crazy thing. I never got asked for a cent. I've never been asked for a cent, not one cent. And look at your blessed life. Yeah, I mean, I've given a lot, a cent not one cent and look at your not a dollar look at your blessed life yeah I mean I've given a lot but only because I chose to not because nobody's ever asked me for a thing

it's so interesting isn't that interesting I always think that's a there's a really interesting tell there isn't it you can tell something whether they want money from you when you when you recite the

the mantra though you do it is there something about the speed the cadence because you do it, is there something about the speed, the cadence? Cause you do it so quickly and it takes on this tone. It's sort of like oming, you know, in that tradition, like the sound of the universe. Like there's a throat singing kind of vibe that you get.

I also recite by the way, two chapters from the Lotus Sutra as part of my practice. It's very Japanese because Nishin Doshonin took it through the silk paths, landed in Japan, right? And this is so, there's a very Japanese aspect to it when I love Japanese culture. I don't know how much time you spent in Japan, but like, oh, I love Japanese culture.

And so I recite two chapters, the Lifespan and the Expedience, mean chapters as well. And like, just, it's like, , the life span and the expedience mean chapters well. And like, just, it's like, and it goes on for five minutes. And that's in me now, because I've been reciting that, but it just, and it comes very naturally. And then, you know, and that's,

and I chant to a scroll and I have like a little incense and like a candle and there's a little bit of greenery and some fruit, just, it's very beautiful. And it just is like centering, that's it. Is this something that your partner and your kids practice as well? Like how does that go down in the household? So my partner definitely has, I said,

as I've said, has had a history of, you know, being raised in a church. So she has her own relationship with all things that are of the world and not, right? And it's really, really beautiful actually, and interesting, but she fully is on board and respects and wants me and loves and appreciates me doing that. And we'll say like,

when she really is in moments, she'll say that. And Daisy, I say every morning and night, and she says, Oh, whenever I hang up the phone, I'm like, if I'm away, first timing. And Flynn had the same every, but the way that I was shakabuku by David, again, being introduced,

he was very aware. Like he didn't force anything. And I feel that that's something that's really important. People will, they need to make it their own, right? It needs to be your own. You need to feel good about it. You need to want something or there has to be a reason for it.

And it resonates. It definitely resonated for me. So that's why I'm doing it. And maybe it doesn't for everyone, but then, you know, whatever works for you, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you're doing, but when you're doing your TM and you're, and you're reciting your mantra, do you feel like you're cheating? Do you feel like you're cheating on your first true love? Oh my God, that's such a good question. I literally came out of there this morning and I told you my brain was like going, why am I doing a rich roll call? What have I got to say?

What is it? There's nothing, this is insane. What are you doing? You know, you're like, you just have, you know, you just dribbled on with Jay. I mean, well, he tried like, those are the stories that the intruder in my head would have me believe, right?

So I'm literally meditating for 10 minutes. I'm like, charm, bro. Like the 20 minute time is on my phone and I stopped. And then I'm literally meditating for 10 minutes. I'm like, charm, bro. Like the 20 minute time is on my phone and I stopped. And then I'm like. When you're meditating, you feel like you should be chanting. When you're chanting, you're thinking, I should meditate.

So TM is not a religious practice. And I find it to be really helpful to me. Just like if I'm on set and I'm just like, my body and brain are tapped because I'm like redlining because that's how I am. Then I just go, and it's like,

it just shuts everything off. But when I wake up in the morning and I chant, it's like starting the engine. And when I go to bed and I chant, it's like saying thank you. And it's just saying thank you. I'm just saying thank you all the time, basically.

Those two practices are compatible. For me, yeah, absolutely. And I think they are, yeah. And all the time, basically. Those two practices are compatible. For me, yeah, absolutely. And I think they are, yeah. And by the way, don't you think every religious practice, every spiritual thinker comes at a certain point, it's all like, sure. Don't you think they all- Well, we get caught up in the trappings.

I mean, you can get caught up in the words and the mantras and the costuming of all of these things and lose sight of the core truths. And I think that's really at the root of all of these things and lose sight of the core truths. Yeah. And I think that's really at the root of all the strife that we have when it comes to the institutionalization of these various strains of thought.

Which at their core, are all beautiful in their essence, I think, and share more than they disagree on. Yes, yes, agreed. So what is it that like is the thing that you're working on now? Like where's the piece where you don't really wanna grow, but you know you need to? Like where's that edge with the inside job work?

Like study, I think it's always study. It's always for me is like just going back to, I think I can always learn more reading, studying, like not getting distracted by other things or choosing, like navigating time. And it's pretty much like constantly trying to come back to studying and learning and educating and myself so that I'm just like a more,

keep being a more fully formed human. So what does that look like now? Like what are you reading? What are you looking at? What are you exploring? It's kind of like edge was an opportunity for me to physically push that boundary and go out. I think a lot of stuff that I've been reading of late

has been around relationships. So just because I didn't have a frame of reference for a relationship. So a lot, I've done a lot of stuff around relationship. Yeah. Been reading a lot around relationship. You did Hoffman too. Hoffman was a great reveal.

Yeah. The possibly one of the greatest reveals, yeah. What did it show you? That, you know, if I leash in my intellect, you know, which is that voice in my head that can be super judgmental and negative and, or is the one that is able to analyze a paper and take things on, you know, which is super necessary. And if I leash in my inner child, which is the one that is like, I just need a hug, or is the one that is like, let's play, be creative, is the creative genius in me. And if I pay attention to my body so that my body is

functioning and I'm taking care of it, then my highest self, the best version of myself, will be the operating programming that I'm working from. And that's the best version, right? Because there are five things that, I was once told there were five things, you know, that you're just to keep check of, which is like, and I'll probably forget them now, but like don't do drugs, right? Alcohol, drugs, whatever, don't like spiritual practice,

physicality, movement, relationship. There's no particular order, by the way, relationship. And I'm not going to remember the last one, sorry. But I have these touchstones that I keep, but for me, it's like, I'm constantly trying to navigate the inside of my brain and focus. So I'm like drawing things down. So it's constantly condensing, condensing, condensing, condensing down to presence. So that formula for accessing your higher self. I'm really frustrated that I can't remember the fifth one. It's probably something around service or work.

Yeah, service, exactly. Work, work, career. Work, career, service. But this idea- They're all the same. Everyone's got the same. What's the flip side of that way to access the best version of yourself?

Like what comes up when you're not conscious of taking care of yourself in that way? That maybe Hoffman, you know, kind of put a mirror up to. Frustration, you mean the flip, the negative? Yeah. The thing that I'm- Yeah, yeah, yeah. The inverse. The inverse is, you know, it's like frustration,

I would say, from a very early age. Cause it's sometimes I feel like if there's a window to my brain, I have to move the window. Other people have just like, they can just go, but I'm like going, and that's really frustrating. But what's the upside to that? In moving it, I'm seeing other things.

You know what I mean? I'm always trying to find the positive, but. And so where does the fear land for you now? I think it was like the show was about me and my practice about taking responsibility, right? Like if I get so good at taking responsibility for myself then you can start taking responsibility for all those other people and people that just don't have the possibility don't don't have either they just don't have this lifetime in this lifetime haven't been given

the opportunities right or and and so i think responsibility capable you, being taught to be super capable, being physically, and then trusting that and just letting go and just not caring, less caring about what other people think and say, and just like, let's go, bro. And so the fear is around what would happen if you really did let go in that way? Yeah, the fear is like, yeah, it's like, they're just, you know, it's just, it's the usual things.

It's all the usual both slings and arrows, right? People are gonna throw at you for this, that and the other, you know, trip you up along the way because you're not, you know, you haven't articulated that correctly. You haven't, you know, you rambled on, you haven't, like, I think there's nuance, right? The amazing thing about a podcast, the amazing thing about sitting here is that there's subtlety and nuance to this level of communication. And if somebody actually bothers to take the time and watch this whole thing,

they'll see the way your heart and communication and intellect has probed questions in me to allow my heart intellect and to do a dance, right? And hopefully they'll appreciate where my heart is coming from, right? But when things are put in writing, they get lost. So often things get put in writing and the nuance and subtlety of what's being communicated at the time, I can say with all my heart and my hand in my heart,

I just want this to be a loving and it'll be taken out of context. And he said this about her. Right. He did this, you know, know it's like just so that you can and that's what i mean about stepping out of your comfort zone being brave because you know that's what's going to come around and that's a control like that's a control you have no you can't control that no you can control what comes out of your mouth and it doesn't matter you can't control how people are going to interpret that or what they're going to do with that and i think the other thing is And it doesn't matter. You can't control how people are gonna interpret that or what they're gonna do with that.

And I think the other thing is that it doesn't matter. And actually like, if somebody had said to me, if I'd had anyone to say to me, bro, you're good, early on, like when I was in some of that period of time where I was like, wait, super visible and it's okay, bro, you're gonna make a mistake, but it's all right. Like in a great scheme of things. You didn't have a mentor or some older person in your life.

Only Daisaku Ikeda in that. I didn't have like, I didn't have, I didn't necessarily have a mentor who was going, no, no, I don't think, I don't think, I didn't have anyone, no, I don't. So by the way, it was a super unique circumstance. I mean, like how many other people, like, you know, I think not many people could even relate

to what I was going. I mean, I was like, you know, I think when I got out of the car in Leicester Square, like Keira Knightley, when we were doing Pirates of the Caribbean and Johnny wasn't there at that time. So I guess I was the, it was like, she was like, he's like a one man boy band. It was crazy, bro.

It was crazy at that time. It was bonkers. What do people not understand about what that experience is like? That it creates a pattern of thinking or it creates an earwig or a, that you just, you're overwhelmed the whole time. You're just overwhelmed the whole time. So when you're like,

like just when you see somebody come at you and all they wanna do is for you to go, hey, can I get a photo? And you're like, but you're in this feeling of just like, just when you see somebody come at you and all they want to do is for you to go, hey, can I get a photo? And you're like, but you're in this feeling of just like, you're just trying to get from A to B. You just want to get from A to B. You just want to, you've got to swim across this field of sharks to get to this island so you can have lunch. Because you're overwhelmed. The feeling of being super overwhelmed by the visibility, by the self-worth aspects, right? I think it comes back, am I enough, right? And you see it play out with all of these wonderful

artists in the world who are just trying to do their thing. You know what I mean? All of these artists in the world, you know, my partner, people in the world, they're all just like trying to put this messaging out because they've been born with it right they've been born into it and they don't quite know how to navigate all of it and there's a whole thing and there's a whole programming going yeah but you gotta have this you gotta and it's like no no no no but just put more love on it put more love on it and that's what they're really trying to do at their essence but at times i think they're just so overwhelmed you know it's just like it's like abrasive on the skin yeah and at that age the brain the brain isn't developed and it's just like, it's like abrasive on the skin. Yeah, and at that age, the brain isn't developed and it's too much attention, too much money.

I mean, you talked about the world being a simulation. Isn't it more interesting watching a car crash? Yeah. You have to imagine like, it is a simulation. Why is everybody in the world responding to me in this way? Of course, that's gonna fuck with you and make you crazy. And your ego and your-

And unless you're lucky enough to have some, you know, be surrounded, not with yes people who are financially invested in whatever you're doing, but like objective people who have your best interest at heart and aren't afraid to tell you what's what. Like, you're gonna go sideways. I had a great, my manager was always so wonderful.

And in a way, like I didn't, you know, I stopped working there recently, not because I didn't love her and I do love her and I miss her and I kind of like, I'm like, but because I needed to like fly, I needed to let go of, I needed to build something out cause she had been this protector in some ways as well. She was amazing.

But I think, yeah, I think the real, it's an interesting little pool to navigate. And I think my, I do have a great therapist and he gives me this analogy. It's like getting into a burning juggernaut, right? It's like you get in and everyone goes, oh my God, look the juggernaut right it's like you get it and everyone goes oh my god look the juggernaut it's on fire it's gonna it's gonna explode and everyone's like wow and then you just gotta you

gotta be able to go okay getting out now guys douse me down get me back okay am i good yeah we're good bro you got you had the suit on you're good you can get out and then but i think for some people they just think the burning juggernaut is the thing, but it's not. You gotta be outside of that, right? Like the burning juggernaut is the thing that you get paid to do for that 15 minutes or whatever that may be, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're gonna be in that, but then you gotta get out

and then you gotta go, okay, what are the things that I can do in my daily life that helped me to navigate it? Now, I was 16 when I was learning how to cook pasta for myself and that and survive. So I know I know how to do that. But like, you have to keep learning those things. Cause by the way, when you get older and you've got somebody who's making food or whatever,

you've put yourself in a position where, but it's like, so what are the things that keep bringing you back? The walk in nature, the bike, what are the things that just keep bringing you back to doing the work? Cause if you're not doing the work, whatever that means for you,

then it's gonna come and bite you. Yeah. Right? And the work is the thing. The work is. The work is the thing, but how does that mesh with somebody who's so prone to these heightened peak experiences who experienced them to an extraordinary degree

as a young person, right? Like you can't, as somebody who's gonna always chase, like what's the next exciting thing, it's impossible to match like pirates and Lord of the Rings, but to remember that it's about the work, you know what I mean? And like, you're still doing the work and the work is the thing and you're really good at it

and you're sharing your art and your craft and all know all of it um but it's a different thing now i think it's like a canvas and i think the canvas in this lifetime will come to an end when i drop this flesh sap you know what i mean but until then i'm painting a picture and i'm just going to keep going and if it's a dark purple because i've f something up or if it's a bright pink because i did the right thing at the end of my life i'll look at the canvas and go cool bro nice one and then back, you know? But the colors of my canvas, I don't wanna be just a whole bunch of pinks and pale yellows and pale blues. I want the rich colors.

I want that stuff. Even if I don't mentally want it, cause I'm like, I don't wanna deal with it. I actually do. I know I do. History has taught me that I do. Circumstances have taught me that I do. So if I just keep, and then just keep doing it,

just keep fighting it. It's okay, this too shall pass, all of it. All those old adages, right? All those idle hands, there's a devil's playground. You wonder like, this simulation? Yeah, bro, somebody went like, throw this one in. Well, and the Buddhist idea of impermanence also. Yes.

It's all a sand mandala that's blowing in the wind. And we're here like this, right? But the canvas that you're painting with Edge, this TV show is different in that it's you. Is this the first thing you've done where it wasn't a character, you're on screen being yourself?

Totally. So it's not surprising that you have a heightened sense of like vulnerability. Yeah, I'm feeling. Doing the show and now talking about the show and being out there and being who you are. Yeah, yeah, it's really like a lot. And I'm grateful, but it's a lot.

It's been a lot in my head, yeah. Who are the people that inspire you? Like who do you look to for guidance, counsel, in art, in life, in lifestyle, in wellbeing? So Daisaku Ikeda was at the top of the list cause as, just cause that's been part of it. I have like a core group of like Buddha brothers who I just like refer to when I'm like,

and I like David who introduced me, I love how he lives. Celeste, who's this remarkable artist founded the Trevor Project, amazing. Celeste Lucene, my best friend, Mark White, who's like kept me centered and Gibber who you see on the show. Like we have this little, so those are the people that I'd kind of like look at.

It says a lot that your closest friends are the people that you grew up with that you've known for such a long time. I think I needed to choose family and I think I was fortunate and I feel like it's very mystical. I definitely feel it's very mystical. The same way that I still, Daisaku Ikeda was like,

oh, I feel like these guys, we've just found each other again in a way. That's how my brain works. So I'm sorry if that doesn't work for you, but that's how it works for me. And I definitely feel that way. Those boys, that team. Then I think education was always a real challenge

up until I went to drama school where I felt like I got my first dose of real education because like I was like, metaphysiology was like the writings of, you know, the metaphysical poets like John Donne or Milton and that language helped me to understand what I was reading and, you know, helped me to key into my imagination

because otherwise I think I was just really like, so yeah, like, you know, and then I'm amalgamation of all my own, you know, there are books that I've read that like had an impact, like at different times, but like, I think I tried to keep coming back to that, like the Dos Aquea Cadex capsules, because it's also like bite size and I can swallow it

and it really resonates for me. But, you know, like I remember reading Perfume by Patrick Siskind and it was like, wow, that was like, what a, you know, the journey that that character went on and the, or, you don't know, like I know it's Anne Wren, but the fountainhead was like, that was not, she's like some of the thinking in there, but there was just lots of different at different times,

but because reading was such a struggle for me as well, it's like listening is much easier. So now I get much more, like listening to your podcast. Audio is really hard. And like, you know, like there are so many experts on your show. It's like, I was like, that's, there's a whole, that gives hope, doesn't that give hope?

Don't you sit in front of people and go, oh, there's hope. You know what gives me hope? The young people. Like, I feel like- Elaborate. Well, my son's 13 and I'm like, he doesn't want the things that, he's like, I bought him a pair of Travis Scott sneakers

and he's like, great, but he's not really attached to them. He left them behind. He didn't take them home with him. Do you know what I mean? Or they, hopefully there's, they're not so driven by the need to consume but experiencing the world and what's the best way to experience the world nature life right so what are we doing it we're ruining it for them so they're going you we want to go and swim in that lake without having to wear like a

wetsuit because the sun's gonna but or whatever like Like maybe the young people, once this old, hopefully, you know, not speaking to anyone or anything, but like, you know, there's a lot of like, hopefully those young people are just gonna be like, and, you know, Sensei, like Akita always refers to the young people. There is something to that. There's certainly a level of empathy

and a kind of more purposeful, meaning-driven sensibility to Gen Z. Yeah, like it's not about like, I don't get the sense that they're all gunning to go work at Goldman Sachs. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's more important to have experiences and to find something that is giving back

and gives them a sense of meaning. Well, hopefully we've showed them that. You know what I mean? I don't know, no, I think it's a reaction. Yeah, exactly. It's a reactionary impulse, you know what I mean? But to your point of like earthly desires will be your teacher, like our example,

good or bad is creating that, right? Whether it's reactive or influenced by matters less than the fact that it is happening. And I take comfort and hope in that as well. I think that is, you know, that is interesting. And the young people, you know, historically always they get grief. They're, you know, what are they doing?

Blah, blah, blah. But, you know, I see a lot of hope in the younger generation. So your son's 13, right? So he's just sort of coming online with what he's into and what he wants to be and what he wants to do, which is an exciting time. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

We barely even talked about like acting at all. And this is really about you and the show, but what is it about acting that gives your life meaning? Like, what is it that you're channeling that feels resonant and important to you that keeps you coming back to it? The opportunity to portray a character and hopefully shine a light with compassion

on the experience of that character. And if you're doing it well, which I don't know that I've done, sometimes it's a bit hit and miss, but like, which is why I love doing it because I'm trying to get better all the time, is that you're shining a light. You know, Lear is a great one, right?

You watch Ian McKellen do Lear and it's like, oh. You suddenly understand when you see him do it. The compassion of a broken human, because we're all broken. We're all lost looking for it, right? So the opportunity in performing a character is like, oh, I'm gonna get to shine a light on the psyche of this person, you know?

And my job is just not to F that up and to really understand what the psyche of that character is. And sometimes you get an amazing character to do that with. And sometimes it's like, nah, character. Well, I'll try and create something and fill in the blanks for that character. But, you know, but I just keep throwing myself at everything and into it because so long as it's like

resonates, you know, I feel like I'm gonna learn something. And like, you know, my cousin used to say when we go to see movies, like there isn't a bad movie. You learn something from all movies, you know, even the worst movies you learn something from, like that's, don't do that, you know? But like, you know, I don't think anyone endeavors on an artistic exhibition,

like creating a movie with the intention of making it bad. Of course not. It's just levels of- It's amazing any movie even gets made and then it's an absolute miracle when a movie is good. And by the way, with the event of AI, what's it all gonna look like 10 years from now?

I don't know, I don't know. I think the movie industry is very much in question right now. And it's trying to figure out a way forward. Like, what does it mean? Where is its place in a culture that is not- And yet a movie like Oppenheimer and Barbie can make- Sure, they break out, they break out

and they're incredible, but by and large, like it isn't, we don't, you know, it's a good thing that we're not in a monoculture anymore, but there's something lost also when we don't all come together as a collective to enjoy a piece of art in the way that we did when we were kids that I have some nostalgia for, I think. I agree.

And it's not a judge, like, I don't know that any of this is good or bad, but I just think it's changed and it's continuing to change. And I think that change is gonna accelerate. I don't see AI upending movies per se for quite some time. It's really hard to imagine that as good as the technology could be. I think the humanity- There's a first move in AI,

which is yet to be, which we're still, and I keep trying to think what's that first move? AI which is yet to be, which we're still, and I keep trying to think, what's that first move? What is that gonna be? And whether, what do I, how much of that? Because it'll be interesting, but I'm like, what is it gonna look like? Because at some point, that it's,

I was fortunate to hear Sam Altman speak on some of these issues at a conference. And he just said, and it was so interesting. So, Flynn has not known a world without the internet, right? I grew up without the internet. I didn't have any of it. Didn't have a mobile phone. So we, as we didn't have,

my daughter is never going to understand a world without super intelligence, super intelligence. And what does that do? What does that mean? What does that look like? What does that mind? How do you combat that? And he actually said something,

which is what Asako Ikeda has said, it's gonna be about the inner revolution. And I think it's gonna be about discipline because I think it's gonna be the people that learn how to say no to their spending 10 hours swiping or whatever you need to do on your phone which I or buying or the people who have the discipline to simplify right to come back to the basics right perhaps those are the people that aren't the NPCs as they're called right who are going to be the ones that move

forward and actually have an impact. Cause I think everybody's got the opportunity to have an impact. It's just whether you know it or whether you were raised with the opportunity to understand that or whether, you know, your makeup has given you that, has posed that possibility for you.

That's an interesting idea. It makes me think of, how one comes up with a new idea. Like you have to sort of step outside the matrix and not be influenced or part of a certain kind of machine in order to see things differently and take a stand for a new idea. And when super intelligence and the internet is sort of commandeering all of our attention

all of the time and the algorithms are dictating what we see and what we read and what we hear. I love my algorithm, by the way. Those algorithms start to program us, right? And then it becomes harder and harder to have an original idea. That's right, that's right. Is part of what Sam or maybe you are saying.

Yeah, that's right. And there are people that just are uniquely gifted at having a unique idea, by the way. Not everybody, we Not everybody, you know, some people, I do think some people are more lucky than others, you know, there's not, I mean, certainly you can make a certain amount of your luck, but it depends how much work you're willing to do. And I think that like, we are being conditioned into thinking less work is more, but I think, you know, like that old adage, like we said about the idle hands make for the devil's playground,

because actually I think just getting up and moving some dirt or planting something or doing like doing something physical, whatever it may be, there's such benefit to that, you know? And so what does that daily routine look like for you? I don't know that there's a routine, but it's like, there is, there's something.

I mean, it's, you know, if there's definitely a chanting, there's definitely a moving my body, trying to sweat. There's definitely, you know, getting into the sun and moving into nature. There is definitely, if I have the opportunity, you know, different times. And then I'm trying to vary it all up, trying to mix it up,

so that my body doesn't expect the same things or my mind or my experience isn't the same. But I'm not one for sitting down and around much. I'm more like moving, so I could keep learning to sit down and around more, maybe read, study more would be good to add to my things. What about the fitness piece? I mean, you're incredibly fit in the show.

Thanks, yeah. You look pretty fit right now. I'm all right. What is that? Because of my back injury, a lot of it is like, you know. Does that cause you pain to this day? What is the, it does. To a certain, not massively to be fair,

actually not massively, but it just requires stabilizing my spine, right? Cause the spine is a weird thing, right? Isn't this a little funny? You know, anyway, so yeah, just functional work now. Like I think I just did this movie, which I'm really proud of called the cut that I produced and it's gonna come out, but I had to drop, it's a boxing movie,

but the fight is making weight, like cutting weight. And I dropped from 185 pounds to a hundred and, I'm 185 as I said, I'm about 180 right now as I sit in front of you. I went to a 151. That's legit. Over how much, how long of a period of time? Two months, something like that.

And it was, what was going on in my brain, the dehydration, because I was cutting water. I was like, I did, I threw everything at it to get to it. And the final thing, right? I was sitting at 160-ish, 160 something for like weeks to the end and then this wonderful nutritionist philip golly who like had helped some great actors do their thing as well he's in santa monica he said all right he timed everything out but he was like now's the

epsom salt bath so i get into an epsom salt bath with 25 pounds of Epsom salt in the bath. And I get into it, boiling hot up to my neck. And I'm like, I have videos of me just like, which is what the fighters do actually. And I have, that's what we do in the movie as well. So it's kind of- The movie is about making weight as a boxer. It's called the cut, it's about making weight.

Sean, Alistair exit, John Turturro, Katrina Balfe, and myself, and then a wonderful cast supporting Axis. And we shot it for no money in London, just like last summer. And it was, anyway, so I get out of this bath. He said, chug two bottles of water. And like, I had people help me get into the bed because I, again, no barrier, no gatekeeper,

push it super far, drink the water, get in. I woke up in the morning and I don't barrier no no no gatekeeper push it super far drink the water get again I woke up in the morning and I don't know it's osmosis but I dropped 10 pounds overnight wow 10 pounds so it's just seeping out of your your skin while we have the video and I'm like on the sodium yeah wow it was wild 10 pounds overnight yeah and that took me to one. 151. Then I was living in this space, just eating cucumber and tuna, cans of tuna, like, cause basically, and like hardly any water for like, until I got, so we started the movie,

we filmed the end, the final scene is him like standing on the scales going. Making weight. Making weight. And there's a part to it which is it's a slightly crazy thing that he does to get there finally because anyway i won't spoil it but it was wild anyway and i get and he's like so we started the movie at that point and then i had to put on weight as we went through so the crazy thing was there's me going wow at different points

of like wow one 169 looks pretty good bro or one set you know and it's all really about male you know the male body dysmorphia i mean you can you you know i mean i'm you know yeah you can speak to this too right it's like we're so over overly aware of what we look like and stuff so part of it part of the movie we're all like that by the way and i realize that everybody's got a decent eating disorder you know what i mean it's like the movie is about that male the look at all of that stuff. Like why do we do this to ourselves, right? I like to say it's because I wanna improve

the way I think and feel. So I'm eating for my brain now, right? Which I think is- That's convenient. Been convenient way to, yeah. I like to do that. That's my ego. What did it feel like when you were 151? Like there was a weird euphoria with that, right?

It was the weird, I mean, I was like paranoid. I was having paranoid attacks. I was totally like the dehydration and everything. I was like, I had a real, I was really struggling and I was open and vulnerable. I was like, I couldn't, I like, I literally sometimes was holding people to move around because I was so dehydrated as well.

Cause I'd like, you know, I'd taken things to help with the dehydration. So I was like out and my bones, like, so bone, you know, like that was where my body was like, okay. Were you having blood work done? And you were medically supervised doing that. Somewhat, not when I got to England. I mean, that's like machinist territory.

Here I was doing it. That movie, The Machinist. Yeah, well, a guy who I worked with, yeah, he's worked with Christian Bale, I'm not sure on that one, but he's worked with him, Bale on some stuff. Actually, part of a really great performance when you actually put your body through that,

that's what will come of it. Sure, because you're actually doing it, you're living it. You're living it, yeah. So obviously that's gonna translate onto the screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, every aspect of it. Yeah, that's very method though too. I guess you kind of have to, you're not gonna be able to costume your way through that.

I mean, no, and also like, I wanted to burn the barn down on this one. It's like I kind of had been developing it for years with this producer and you know getting to make it like we said is lightning in a bottle and you know who knows how do you choose your parts it's not like i get like to be honest i know what like there was a period where it was just all top draw material and I'm getting sent and it's like, I don't know. I had a really great manager and a lot of it was like, can't see the wood for the trees.

There were things I look back and I go, how did I miss on that? Because I remember that being on my path, but I didn't do that. And I didn't do that. Why, what? Oh, I did this. Okay, but that's, and you, so letting go, letting go.

Like everything is, so now it's like, I don't wanna leave my family too much, but there's nowhere I'd rather be than on set. So I'm like, and of late, you know, I would say in the last few years, a lot of it has just been like, let's roll the dice, see what happens. I don't know, there's variables here that don't add up ordinarily, you know, like.

And of course there's a very kind of low hanging fruit joke with your show, right? Like, is this not just a big, you know, sort of mission impossible audition? Like, is there some one upsmanship for Cruise to feast his eyes on here? 100%, who knows? Like, I don't know if he's done wingsuit.

I don't think he has. He's done a lot of shit, but I don't know if he's done wingsuit. Yes, I don't think he has. He's done a lot of shit, but I don't know if he's done a wingsuit. Somebody told me that. And by the way, he is, I consider him to be the head of the arrow. He has been a movie star. Well, the stuff he's doing is wild.

He has been the front of the movies. And he is like, so like nothing but hats off. He produced a movie I did with Cameron Crowe called Elizabeth Town. And I have the utmost respect for that man. But it is interesting because he does it all. And he just does it all. He just keeps showing up and doing all of it.

He's got no time for anybody one-upping him though. No. You know what I mean? Isn't that interesting? I don't think he's interested in having anyone come in and take over the Mission Impossible franchise. I think somebody told me actually. He's gonna do it. Yeah, he's interested in and having anyone come in and take over the mission i think somebody told me he's gonna do it yeah he's gonna do it he's gonna he's gonna he's gonna wingsuit into it into a car in in the next mission that's how he's gonna go out i think somebody told me that he if if if he hadn't done it which i think maybe i don't know if he's done

it but uh i can't i wouldn't but i think i think of it was like, you don't see it on film in the same way. Like wingsuiting, it's hard to see, but it's the fastest, you're moving faster than anything. It's the fastest we can possibly move without, and you're cutting through the sky, but it doesn't, it's hard. I don't know if you saw in the show because we went over water, so maybe you see it,

but it's hard. But you have that long lens shot where you saw in the show because we went over water, so maybe you see it. But it's hard. But you have that long lens shot where you can see the water moving beneath you really quickly, which gives you a sense of. And there's some other shots, but it's hard to capture. Whereas skydiving, there's, you know,

you can get like a bunch of guys who really know what they're doing in the air to catch you like that, you know, which he's done epically, you know, and made a remarkable, you know, and you know, the he's done epically, you know, and made a remarkable, you know, and, you know, the jumping and the, with the bike, it was, I mean, I'd love to do that. I mean, imagine you're getting painted and he loves it. He for sure, he loves it, but he's a, he now, now, now there's a guy who's like an expert at everything. He's been doing it for a very long

time. Yeah. And he's surrounded himself with an incredible team of people that facilitate and train him to be that guy. But, you know, he fucking doesn't fuck. I mean, he goes all the way, dude. Yeah, he does. He's speaking your language on some level. Oh, yeah.

We definitely had, I definitely, yeah. But as you said, the low hanging fruit is, is this just a massive commercial for my next franchise that I definitely, yeah. But as you said, the low hanging fruit is, is this just a massive commercial for my next franchise that I'm, by the way. It's just one big audition tape, right? I mean, there is that aspect to it. In Hollywood. There is that aspect to it.

And probably in the back of my brain, there's a part of me which is like, what have I got left to prove? And what else do I, you know? But hopefully people will keep come back to just the humanity of it. Because I think it's more about humanity. And I try to have that play throughout all the characters.

Sure, there's a sense of like, what am I, I'm trying to prove to myself that I can do these things, that I can do hard things, be on the edge, learn something about myself. But fundamentally the greater lesson that you're also trying to embrace is that you're already enough, dude. Right, yeah.

You deserve to be loved for exactly who you are right now. You don't have to go out and accomplish anything in order to be entitled to that. Well, I really hope that's the takeaway for everyone. They all go, I'm enough, you know what I mean? Because that's really, that's the takeaway for everyone. They all go, I'm enough. You know what I mean? Cause that's really, that's where it, that lands. And that's the, you know, and that's, but you know,

that's also life. That's the trajectory. And I love it. It's not like I'm not having a great time. I'm not, not, you know, it's not like, I meant it when I said I've never feels so alive when I'm that close to death it wasn't you know I wasn't it was all these things these thoughts and feelings as I blurb they all came out because I was like you know under these pressure cooker of feelings and emotions I remember my you know um I have this I had this assistant Lindsay who became a

producing partner because I worked with her so long she's have this, I had this assistant, Lindsay, who became a producing partner because I worked with her so long. And she's, and this is all she ever wanted to do work in this space. She's actually doing that with her husband now. And she, but I was like, I'd be screaming, what am I, why am I wearing this t-shirt? I was like trying to control, like the only thing I could control was what I was, this t-shirt that I'm wearing. Why am I wearing this t-shirt? What's this? What is this the right one? You know, cause there was like continuity to the show. I was overly focused on all these little things. You know what I mean? So that is, that's an aspect of my other brain, which is like. That's, that's just your fear,

like trying to hold on to something. Something. Right. Yeah. Something, you know, like. And in a situation in which you. It's not you, it's me. It's not me, it's you. You know, it's that. Well, you did a great job. You know, maybe before we shut this down, any last thoughts about what you want people to take away from the experience that you had, that you're sharing in the show or just in life from your path, this kind of extraordinary journey that you've been on?

I think sometimes just pouring more love on it because loving is the hardest thing. Sometimes the most scary thing, the most vulnerable thing is just to keep loving, just keep giving more love to self first so that you can give to others, but just pour more love on it. I think that's a pretty good way to end it.

Cool, thanks man. Good job, man. We did it. We did it. Feel all right? Yeah, I feel like I've just gone through the ringer and I've overexposed myself and I'm gonna just, you know. You're in a supportive, loving environment, my friend. Yeah, I know, I feel that. We're here for you, buddy. I feel that and thank you so much.

Yeah, that's great. I loved it, man. I love getting to know you a much. Yeah, that's great. I loved it, man. I love getting to know you a little bit. It was really cool. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Well, I love what you're doing and the messaging you're putting out there. And I feel honored that like my little conversation

will be up amongst some of those remarkable conversations that I've been listening to. There is an education in your show for everyone to have. Trying to. Mate, mate come on it's brilliant i'm like that's the school a lot you and you i mean i mean it when i said i can't i'm really grateful for the call because you curate some remarkable thinkers thanks man it's been cool to i'm like i'm going back now because i had to you know i got a 800 and some odd number of them for you i know keep your dyslexic brain engaged exactly maybe that's my new school the school of rick roll all right

we'll come back uh whenever whenever you feel like uh sharing a little bit more thanks man appreciate you i think you've rung me dry for a while. Right on. Peace. Bye. That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today,

visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change and the Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast,

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which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake. Portraits by Davey Greenberg. Graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Solis. And thank you, Georgia Whaley, for copywriting and website management. And of course,

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