The Rich Roll Podcast - ÖTILLÖ! Meeting Nature Writ Large

Episode Date: September 6, 2017

Today I am joined by my friend, coach and teammate Chris Hauth for a special edition of Coach’s Corner – a spin on my typical podcast format — to recap our breathtaking, once-in-a-lifetime adventure competing in the Ötillö Swimrun World Championships in Sweden. A sub-9 hour Ironman, Chris (@AIMPCoach) is a former professional triathlete, two-time Olympic Swimmer and one of the world’s most respected endurance coaches. In 2006, Chris won the Ironman Coeur D’Alene and went on to be the first American amateur & 4th overall American at the Ironman World Championships in Kona, Hawaii. When he’s not training and racing, Chris runs AIMP Coaching, mentoring a wide spectrum of athletes ranging from elite professionals — including Ironman and Western States top finishers, Ultraman winners and Olympic Trials qualifiers — to first time half-marathoners. Under Chris’ tutelage since 2008, he deftly guided me through three Ultraman World Championships,EPIC5. and now Ötillö. This past Monday, Chris and I joined 300 athletes from 24 countries to race Ötillö as a two-man team, traversing 26 islands spread across the outer-reaches of the Swedish archipelago on foot and by sea. All told, 40 miles of running and 6 miles of swimming. It was a truly extraordinary experience. Punishing. Humbling. Brutal, beautiful and beyond extreme. Along the way we met gale force winds. Sideways rain. Bone-chilling Baltic waters. And six-foot swells. We were on our hands and knees, scaling vertical granite slippery as ice. We trudged through bogs in knee-deep mud. Loose rocks left us flat on our backs. We bushwhacked terrain so difficult, so impossibly technical, it all feels now like an impossible dream. Today we share the incredible story. I sincerely hope you enjoy the exchange. Peace + Plants, Rich

There's days that are going to be like you had yesterday for everybody. And you're going to not feel good the first hour. And the voices and the emotions and the self talk that's happening in those moments. That's where you have to trust in your fitness. You have to trust in the work that you've invested in yourself in the training. And that's not miles run at a certain pace or distance or yard swum in the pool. That's the consistency of the daily emotions you have in training, right? Where you build that foundation that, yes, I will finish this. I know I can. And you don't even have to dig into those yesterday. You just know deep down inside, I've done the work. I will traverse this distance. I don't have to think too much or ask myself too hard to do too much about it.

It's going to be a difficult day. And here we go. That's Chris Houth. And this is another edition of Coach's Corner on the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. Welcome to my podcast and a very special Coach's Corner edition of the show featuring a race recap on our Eau de L'eau performance. I'm here with Chris Hout, my coach, my friend, my teammate.

How are you doing, Chris? Awesome. It was a big day yesterday. What an experience. Unbelievable. Absolutely incredible. We're going to unpack it all, but first let's take care of a little business. We're brought to you today by recovery.com.

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Chris, you ready to talk about it? How are you feeling today? I'm feeling pretty good. I'm excited to talk about it, share the epic stories that went throughout our day. So many epic stories. Please tell me you're sore. I'm a little sore, yeah.

My major malfunction right now, beyond the fact that I can't go downstairs and I'm walking around like John Wayne, just bow-legged and stuff, is the top bone on my left foot. I feel like I fractured it. It's really irritating me. And I think I might have to get it x-rayed when I go home.

Hopefully it goes away pretty quickly. Yeah. Maybe your shoes were just tied a little too tight. I hope so. That's what I'm hoping. Or that log that fell on it, which we didn't notice. I don't know. Yeah.

I mean, so many things happen. I have all these scratches and bruises all over my body. I don't know where I got any of them. The whole thing was a crazy blur. But I guess to kind of launch into it and for people that are kind of just tuning in now and have no context for this, can you just break down what it is that we just did yesterday? Well, we were secluded on some islands outside of Stockholm and given a task to go from point a to b over what was it 20 islands and a total of 10 kilometers of swimming and about 42 miles of running to get across it in some extreme conditions in an extreme location and extreme temperatures everything was extreme out there. Right. So this is called Eau de l'Eau.

Eau de l'Eau. I think I finally got it after butchering it. Eau de l'Eau. I think it's close enough. Which means island to island. Which means island to island. And this is the premier event, the world championship event in what is a series of other races, similar races like this, all leading up to this, you know, culminating in this world championship event. And so the best teams in the world all descend upon

this island called Sandham, which is on the outer reaches of the archipelago, the series of islands that are on the outskirts of Stockholm. We took a ferry out the day before, all the athletes and crew people and support staff all went out to this island and stayed in this hotel. And as you head out, the environment becomes more and more ominous. It's pretty intense. It was fairly mild in Stockholm when we left. And by the time we arrived in Sandham, it was raining. It was cold.

There were white caps everywhere on the sea. It was looking very treacherous and foreboding, to say the least. Yeah. Yeah. So we woke up at 4 a.m. And to say with that, all night it's blowing and howling. And we're in this little hotel inn on this island, and it is just rattling. And the flag stands are just howling all night.

It's pretty intense. I was well aware of that because as I could hear your heavy breathing in the bed next to me, I was wide awake like the whole night. I was so nervous. I just couldn't. I think I got like maybe an hour, an hour and a half of sleep all night just butterflies in my stomach for what was to what was to come so uh so yeah so how many teams were there um it was a total of 300 competitors so 150 teams and uh and a lot of these teams these guys have been doing these races for a long time.

It's a very specific discipline. You think just because you know how to swim well and you know how to run well or you can run long distances that you're sort of well-suited to this, but it is an exacting kind of discipline that is very specific to this particular kind of terrain. And I think that was the biggest sort of surprise to me. Like I'd watched all the videos, I did the homework. I thought I knew what to expect and it just delivered me a completely different menu. Yes. But also keep in mind that this world championship is different than the others, where it is more swimming and running as we're more familiar with

but this one is the extreme version of it because it's the original and so they put you in a harsher more difficult environment with also a lot of the adventure racing aspect to it that we experienced yesterday yeah and i think the biggest most dominating uh character in the whole event is the terrain and the weather. And so when we get up, there's literally gale force winds, it's raining out, there's white caps in the sea, it's dark out, and they're saying like, yeah, it's going to be a tough day. Like, it's a tough day on the best day, the easiest conditions. And they were like, yeah, this might be one for the record books. conditions and they were like, yeah, this might be one for the record books. And we found out after from a lot of the organizers how close they were to delaying or canceling parts of it because we were so exposed to the Baltic Sea and how the weather was hitting

us in the swims. So the race starts out, it starts out with a 1200 meter run that's fairly controlled and then you jump into the sea for your first swim which is the longest swim of the event about a 17 i think 1750 meters um and it's kind of a shock to the system when you first jump in that water i mean it was cold the one the good thing is that it wasn't that cold like i think it looked if you look at the photos it looked colder than it was but the water temp was actually kind of fine yeah for sure but immediately you get the chop and the currents

and the swells and you're immediately uh very aware that it's you're in for a long day yeah and the gray and dark background that you're trying to sight on the swims, you quickly realize this is not going to be easy sighting for the rest of the day. Those islands are pretty low. So you have to get some serious height to see over the chop and the waves to even sight where you're going. Right. And there's so many islands out there during the pig swim, which I want to talk about in a minute. The swells were so large that I lost sight of the beacon a couple times. You really had to be conscious of what you were doing. And it was so easy to suddenly be going in the wrong direction and heading towards, you think you're going to the right island,

you're going to a totally different island. Which for the first swim, they have this strobe light, which already, that's so cool. This strobe light shooting across this over a mile swim that we're doing right to start. And so you're trying to focus on the strobe light shooting across this over a mile swim that we're doing right to start. And so you're trying to focus on the strobe light and you quickly realize you're losing it in the swell and the chop and the wind gusts that your senses are quickly turned on. I got to pay attention here. Right. So we jump in at the same time and I kind of swam in your wake for a little bit and you got sort of progressively a little bit further and further ahead of me until I kind of lost you all together and I fell in with another group um but when I climbed out I was able to find you

right away and immediately uh you're hit with like vintage odolo like like trying to climb up that first rock with the rain and everything everything is so slippery like i could not get my you were trying to pull me up and i was sliding back down into the water and like falling on my face and that just became the theme for the entire day that and it's you're so exposed immediately out of the water and you realize that there's nothing out there and you hear the wind howling you're like okay here we go right and it was that first one is a big shipping lane i mean it was a wide berth to get across that and then the first run segment uh is basically you jockey around the coastline you kind of hug

the coast and you're hopscotching over wet loose rocks b. Boulders. Covered in moss. Branches. Yeah, brambles. Everyone's slipping and falling. And you see these guys who are very skilled at this, just like gazelles jumping over this thing, like gracefully just passing everybody. And I realized that is a skill that I do not have.

I was slipping so much. Part of that, I think, is I made the wrong shoe choice. The surface of the bottom of the shoe that I do not have. You know, like I just, I was slipping so much. Part of that, I think, is I made the wrong shoe choice. Like the surface of the bottom of the shoe that I was wearing just didn't grip the rocks at all. And I fell so many times in the beginning or just lost my balance that I lost trust in the ability of my shoe to kind of ground me when my foot landed, which added a lot of anxiety and stress and also made me take it very gingerly, which added a lot of anxiety and stress. Um, and also made me take it very gingerly, which put a lot of pressure on my quads. Cause you're kind of flexing at the knee a lot. Um, and I realized like, this is not what I thought it was going to be. Like I knew there would be a lot of technical stuff and that just became what most of it was like running on

wet rocks, uh, and scrambling up, you know, boulder faces on all fours, slipping around. I mean, I fell on my butt at least a dozen times. But keep in mind also to set the scene, it's not like you just fall here. If you fell, you fall into a bouldering crevasse almost. It goes straight down, not just into the water, but a bunch of rocks protruding out of the water. I mean, you can quickly really injure yourself. So it's not like slipping and, oh, you just fall and you're right there. You fall and fall, slide down into other rocks

and into these little canyons. I mean, it's pretty gnarly out there. Right. So case in point, within the first kilometer of the first run, we see a woman running in the wrong, like towards us in the wrong direction because her teammate, I believe, slipped and fell and hit his head on a rock. And you saw, I didn't see him, but you were like, he was unconscious. Yeah. He was just lying there with a helper a

local who lives on the island just holding him calm or holding his hand as he was eyes backwards in his head laying on the ground i mean it was and the race hadn't even started yet and you're like oh my god and when the when the dust settled i think there were there was a 23 or 32 teams dnf'd 23 or 32 teams DNF'd? Yeah, I think 118 teams or 111 teams finished out of the 150. So that's a pretty high attrition rate. I'd be curious to know how many of them dropped out due to injury versus not making the time cutoff. I know there were a lot of teams that weren't making the time cutoff. We saw people with stitches on their chins we saw people who have broken their foot and leg um there was a lot of carnage i might be one of those people yeah i'm realizing now but yeah so at about 90 minutes in my quads just were searing with lactic acid and i you know

it was so much more anaerobic work and strength work, like functional strength work. Climbing straight up. I mean, envision just not 12, 13 or 18. We're talking 20 plus percent on these boulders straight out of the water and holding on with all fours to get up to the next step. And either I'd be waiting there and try to give you a hand, but even then you still have to push yourself up. Yeah. So, and that's something I didn't train for at all. And I don't have any experience in like to do, if I was to do it again, I would try to work on that a little bit so I could withstand that kind of, um, that, that type of exertion. I felt really confident about our endurance base going in. I mean, we put in some big days and some long runs.

And sort of the game plan going into it was that we were going to, you know, pace ourselves and rely on that endurance base to kick in in the last couple hours. The longest run is near the end. It's 13 miles. And so the idea was once we hit that, then we can kind of open it up and strut our stuff and show what we're capable of and hopefully pass a bunch of teams and make a lot of headway there. But at that 90 minute mark, I started to get concerned about just surviving the day. And when we finally did get there were the thing is like in the first half of the race, I think there were only two spots where you could

actually run, like just legitimately run where it was open enough to run like how we think of running. Everything else was tiptoeing and bouldering and climbing over logs and going through, we went through this bog where the reeds were as high as your head and we're just like traipsing through mud that was almost up to our knees. I mean, it was much more like the vast majority of the quote unquote running was stuff like that.

Yeah, adventure racing sort of, getting through terrain somehow, some way. Right, literally bushwhacking. Now I understand why they wanted us to have a compass kind of whistle. Like I can see the logic in that at this point. And I can also see the logic in why teams tether to each

other which is what we learned about that yeah right there's a there's a lot of logic now afterwards and we knew this going into it like where if we had any ambitions with regards to placing it would have been crazy to think that as to complete newbies that we would understand it so that's why we already knew going into it, listen, we're gonna just experience this and if our fitness is good enough to have fun at the front, so be it. Even then, we still wouldn't know what was coming ahead of us.

But this way, we learned a lot. Yeah, there's no question about it. I mean, it became evident very early on, at least for me, how much I didn't know versus how much I knew and I definitely thought I knew more than I did and we can sit here and try to explain it all but the truth of the matter is you just unless you were there it's just hard to grasp just how extraordinary and magnificent and intense the the experience and the landscape is.

Like it's nature writ large in every sense of the word. Yeah, I mean, I think that was my biggest takeaway too on how you do not control anything out there. You are just trying to make your way through this terrain, through this environment, through those conditions from point A to point B. And the weather and the terrain controls you. Yeah, for sure. And so once, you know, once my quads started giving me these problems very early on, I had to let go of my, you know, just surrender

my ego, surrender my, you know, let go of any expectations, just detach from all of it and just say, okay, we're just here. Let's enjoy this day. Let's get through it. We're going to finish it and try to enjoy it as much as we can with all the suffering that had to dole out. Yeah. And I mean, and I think it's interesting because we both come to from different backgrounds of racing in the endurance world. You know, I'm more in the iron man racing and finishing at the front and you're more a super extreme with ultra man and so on where you manage yourself through and so us both getting to a point around two three hours in where it's like all right we gotta just this is our day now you know

but the cool thing was i never at any point doubted that we're not going to finish the race like yeah that would never came into consideration i don't think even even our body language or anything was never in any way that we're not going to finish this and despite i mean and we might get to this some of the swims being experiences that we will never have an opportunity to experience again unless we do some crazy solo thing because you would never get permits or anything like we did yesterday in the United States or many other places in the world, nor would we choose without the support

and the safety craft to do what we did yesterday. So therefore, then the adventure of it and the enjoyment of it and realizing, wow, this is so cool. We're getting to do something that we'll never get to do again in our lives was unbelievably memorable. Yeah, there's no question about that. I mean, I think that for me, that all came into crystal focus uh during the pig swim which for me was the highlight of the whole experience and this is a swim that takes place about halfway through the race uh it's the i think it's the second longest swim yeah but it is the most it's 1400 meters it's the most exposed swim it's on the far outer reaches of the archipelago. So you jump

on the water and to your right, there's nothing but Baltic sea. There's no more islands. And on this particular day, the winds were, I don't know how fast the winds were going, but they were legit gale force winds, sideways rain, and not just whitecaps. These were swells that I think got up to about six feet at points, like anywhere between three and six feet of swell. They were saying two to three meters. Right, two to three meters. Wow. So much so that the boats were pitching.

Like it didn't even look safe for the boats to be out there. And that was their biggest concern. The organizers after the race said, our concern was in the athletes, because of course, they're super prepared for this, and they're in the water. And while that seems daunting, it's the safety boats and the safety staff that are not prepared to be out there in this that they were more concerned about. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was treacherous. And when you say like, this could never take place in the United States, it would just be an impossibility.

No insurance company would underwrite anything. Well, the Coast Guard would have shut that thing down yesterday. You cannot let people swim out here. And in Sweden, they're like, looks fine to me. Go for it. I mean, the fact that in Sweden and the history of this race, they were still thinking about modifying the course, given the conditions, says a lot, because anything goes at this thing. Yeah, and 1,400 meters doesn't sound that far, and nor when we looked at it. I mean, we were getting our distances, we were understanding them better during the race, because later in the race, we would look at like a 600-meter swim and be like, oh, uh-oh, here we go, right?

Whereas before, we'd like ah 600 meters whatever but because of the conditions it made it that much more daunting but 1400 meters for the pig swim like it doesn't sound that bad but when we're on the top of that cliff and you can barely see that strobe over there and the white caps and the currents moving and then you see these boats tilting that are in the middle of that crossing. And then you realize you're squinting just to see those boats because of the rain and the wind. Like, I can't even see the boat halfway. I know.

It was beyond absurd. But I loved it. Like, that was the most fun of the whole experience because I'm out, like, halfway into that swim. We lost touch with each other. I don't even know where you were. And there was one boat that I could kind of see. And then, you know, every third or fourth stroke, I could see the strobe light. But it was easy to get disoriented.

But you're just getting pitched in the waves. And you're just like, what am I even doing out here? This is crazy. Like I would never do something like this. I may never ever again do something like this this is truly a once in a lifetime experience and i just felt like this overwhelming sense of like like gratitude like i'm in the middle of this craziest thing you can possibly imagine and i like smiled i was like this is awesome i was the same swimming like like i'm gonna get across across. Like, just relax.

And it's a great kind of test or example of how you have to let go. Like, you can't fight these currents. You can't control any of this. Just swim the best you can. Keep that beacon in sight. Pick your line. Stay focused on that. And like, just relax.

You'll get across. I was laughing at times because you're just swimming along going, I can't believe this. My body got completely turned sideways. I got hit by a wave. And next thing I was facing completely south. Yeah, you could easily be turn around and start heading back where you came from and not even notice it.

Oh, you didn't notice it because the waves would hit you from the side. You get knocked around a few times. My paddle got knocked off. It's hanging on my wrist. I'm stopping to fix that and I'm underwater. I mean, you miss a breath and you can quickly understand too

what it's like in open ocean for some of these swimmers or people who are rescue swimmers and stuff like that. It was so intense. And then you look up and you see these boats just getting tossed and turned and you're like i'm glad to be in the water yeah i know those guys look it's safer yeah it's safer and they look sick on there right and every every finish

of every swim you don't just like run out run up on the shore like every single one had this like 20 percent sheer rock face that you had to scramble up on all fours like literally on all fours like bouldering up these things to try to get it and then you kind of crest it and then the wind you like the wind was insane well even before that i mean i was thinking a few times in the united states if they put this race together and you're getting slammed against rocks by waves. Yeah, they would call it right there. I mean, there's no safe exit.

Like there was that one swim where there was that little lighthouse buoy thing and like we were trying to track around it and like it would be so easy to just crash right into that thing, get racked up. Yeah, and be stuck, yeah. And if you tried to, if you pick the wrong exit point on that swim, you're getting washed.

Washed out to sea. Against boulders. Yeah. And against boulders. But a few times even the organizers said, well, we'll pick you up 300, 400 meters down the coast. You're like, what? And then the next day we understood what they were talking about. Yeah, I know.

Oh my gosh. It's unbelievable. Like you watch the videos, you see the photos and they all look epic. But like to be in it, it was just, just fantastic. It really was. But, but yeah, it was, I would say it was the hardest one day thing I've ever done in my life. Like it, it really tested me to,

to my core. Like I had to dig so deep just to get moving. Like you're, you're constantly bending over to duck underneath branches. Like my back was so tight and it just, every aspect of, of just trying to traverse the terrain and keep moving without stopping was daunting.

And keep in mind, every time we fell or tripped or something, that's so many extra movements where you're sore and then all of a sudden you have to catch yourself properly and then go back to running. There's no rhythm in this at all. Right. And again, the game plan, the idea was that when we finally would reach open space

and we could run, it's of like you you gingerly go through the tricky treacherous technical aspects and you pick your moments to drop the hammer and go hard when it opens up but i just didn't i didn't have it in the tank to do it like i felt the the thing that was looping in my mind was i just felt bad because i was holding you back i mean for the record like you were fresh as a daisy throughout the entire thing i was like if chris wasn't with me he'd be up with the leaders like I felt I felt terrible about that and I and I at one point I even said to you I was like I'm sorry man like I'm I'm literally I'm trying as hard as I can but I just don't have any more to give like I just gotta like like put the blinders on and just make sure that I finish this thing and

I don't cramp up or anything like that but But we had with that, because of all that, if we were like charging and being aggressive and so on, I don't think we would have enjoyed this day and experienced it the way we did nearly as much. I mean, the fact that we could sort of relax and sort of take it all in, like stop for a moment before a swim and look at what we're doing or meet people on the course the way we did i mean they're sure there's competition but then there's also like let's take a moment exactly and take a moment and understand where we are and i like i told you yesterday during the race i was like we signed up for this together like there's who cares like Like, I could have tripped

and rolled my ankle, I could have had cramps as well. Like, it is what it is. And here we are. And we're going to do this. And the fun, and the fun is the wrong word, the confidence deep down inside, knowing that we're going to finish it, and this is just going to take a little bit longer, was very assuring all the time and i never had to think about it because i knew you're pretty steady and tough like that that you are going to just find your pace for your day and we're going to get through it and and it was and we finished and was it was just such an overwhelming emotional day in that aspect. Oh, so much so.

You know, so much so. I mean, there were moments, you know, the interesting thing is in a race of this length and distance, for anybody who's done anything, you know, in the realm of this understands, there are moments where you feel great and there are moments where you feel terrible, the highs and the lows and the ups and the downs.

And to be able to just relax with that and know like, I feel terrible right now, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's how you're going to feel an hour later or two hours later and just be like, just keep going, just ride it out. But here's the coach's corner part of it. And that is, there's days that are going to be like you had yesterday for everybody where even after the first you know eight to ten twelve twenty hour event and you're gonna not feel good already right the first hour and the voices and the emotions and the self-talk that's happening those in those moments because you know this is i knew it was going to be difficult but now it's going to be even more difficult because i'm not feeling good that's

where you have to trust in your fitness you have to trust in the work that you've invested in yourself in the training and that's not miles run at a certain pace or distance or yard swum in the pool. That's the consistency of the daily emotions you have in training, right? Where you build that foundation that yes, I will finish this. I know I can. And you don't even have to dig into those yesterday. You just know deep down inside, I've done the work. I will traverse this distance. I don't have to think too much or ask myself too hard to do too much about it. It's going to be a difficult day and here we go. Yeah. And, and that was definitely my mindset. And, you know, I was able to tap into that because of my experience in other races and just all the work that we've done together, like everything that you've, that you've prepared me for in the past. So yeah, that 90 minute mark when my legs felt

like I can't even run anymore. Um, I knew that somehow I was still, you know, when there's nine hours left that I was still going to be able to finish because of that work. And it was interesting, like every time we would jump into the water, it was so refreshing. Like I was like, cool down your core body temp, let the legs relax a little bit. They cool down, they start feeling good. You're kind of dragging them behind you. And I would think, well, maybe that'll just flush it all out and I'm going to feel better running on the next segment. But then you're faced with climbing up that rock again and you just repeat the whole process over and over. But what you just tapped into too is that endless optimism you need to have during an ultra endurance event you keep wanting to think ahead to it will be get

it could possibly get better so therefore i'm going to continue to charge on to march on stay steady don't get emotionally too high or too low who knows maybe the back half of this i'll feel great so that's that endless optimism that a lot of ultra endurance athlete athletes i think display because they're like who knows i have the experience of knowing that something good might still be happening down the road and so i'm just going to keep plugging away. Yeah. And I felt that, that last three and a half K, the final run to the finish shoot,

like I was able to run, you know, in a way that I hadn't been able to do all day long. Although I had to yell at you the first time all day. Well, we hit that hill. Yeah, here's the thing. Finishing up, you're coming into this town, you can see the ferry and the pier and you see the flags and you're like there's the finish line it's right there and instead of finishing right there instead

there's a sign that says turn left and you go straight up this hill for like a half mile and i was like are you fucking kidding me and then that was the one time where you were like stop it yeah and he's like well i think I might have to walk here. I go, we're not walking on the last. You can, if you cramp, you'll cramp, but let's cramp or get to the finish line and deal with cramping. I know that was, I mean, what a way to finish it though. Like, right. I mean, it was, it was like, I didn't know that.

I didn't know the map well enough to know that that was there. So it was more of the surprise. Yeah. Like, just like, let's just grind you one more time before we let you off the hook here. Yeah. What was the highlight and the low point for you? I would say the pig swim as well, just knowing that it was such a unique thing. And we've talked to other athletes after the race,

and even those that have done Eau de L'Eau a few times have said this was the that was the funnest year to do the pig swim that was just so exciting the low point i don't know if i really had a low point emotionally i mean physically of course you go through highs and lows of you know lower energy and i needed an aid station or needed to drink something but it was just so so much to take in from those beautiful forests to those amazing islands and the the scenery was so harsh but yet alive that i never felt emotionally low because it was just so much positive extreme input but um no i mean the fun part too was learning a lot about myself with regards to racing with somebody for the first time and i'll be honest with you the first 90 minutes when you were struggling to figure out like why your quads were bothering you and what

was going on of also being able to say you you know what, this is a team thing. And it's the first time in my life where I've ever had to do that. And you can tell though early on, I was still saying, hey, just settle in or let's take this a little bit harder here because then we'll work our way around this. And I was still trying to be a little bit strategic, but after a while it's like you know what let's just back into

this is our day and now let's make the best of our day versus comparing to others or our expectations yeah well as far as i could tell you were nothing but positive and encouraging and relaxed about the whole thing, which went a long way to helping me relax and just, you know, allow it to happen as if you were like 90, we're 90 minutes. Come on, man. Like I trained you better than that. You know, if it was like that, I probably would have gone into some kind of weird spiral. I tried a few times where I said the, remember, I was like, you know know just try to find your running stride that you have on your long runs at home like try to find that place where your body

is in rhythm with your mind that was helpful so i was trying a few times to just take you away from this extreme conditions and put your mind back onto some of the beautiful trails you run and you're light on your feet remember i kept saying try to be light on your feet run your stride like at home not thinking about this treacherous footing here yeah find a rhythm and maybe that will help versus being tight right focus so much on the ground and where we are and like oh my gosh so i hope that helped a bit yeah it definitely helped although then i would remember that I'm like, the other thing that happens is your shoes fill with all kinds of detritus.

Like I had dirt and gravel and like little stones underneath my, so you're like doing this crazy long run with all this stuff in your shoes, you know, that ordinarily you would just stop and like shake them out or whatever. But you like, well, if I do that, it's just gonna happen again in a half an hour.

So you just have to like go, right this is what it is you did change shoes the day before the race i did i know i know i still had mine i don't i drain nicely well the shoes that i wore i think i still they had a lot they had some good support yeah you know like and i think that was good like the other shoe i was gonna wear was a very light kind of i think it would have been too light it probably would have gripped better on the slippery stuff but i think it would have banged me up pretty good because it didn't have enough like sort of support for what i did for sure yeah yeah so you know not the best shoe but you know yeah that was a last minute substitution yeah i don't know if it's the old adage don't change your gear the day before the race we're cutting wetsuits we're we made a last minute decision to cut the sleeves off our wetsuit which

was a good one yeah because the water wasn't that cold i mean it was it was cold it was 58 it wasn't like warm no but it was not a worrisome right exactly and it felt good in there and so that was fine um you then put those sleeves onto your calves and use them as sort of compression socks. And that was smart. I used these other kind of, I decided not to use a pull buoy. Everybody uses straps of pull buoy to the waist of their leg. You changed the pull buoy idea the last second. Yeah. So I decided not to do that because it's such a hassle getting in and out. I actually still stand by that. I think it would have messed me up to be always fiddling with that thing. I actually still stand by that.

I think it would have messed me up to be always fiddling with that thing. And I had these kind of padded flotation calf sleeves on that Jonas, Jonas Colting, who's won this race many times and won Ultraman and has done this race every single year. He started a wetsuit company and that's one of his products. And he gave me a pair of those and I wore, they actually worked pretty well. Like my legs would float quite well.

So I don't know that the no pull buoy thing was that big of a deal. It might have been if I had it strapped to my back and had figured out and practiced with it a little bit more, maybe that would have been fine. Which we saw a lot of competitors. A lot of people were doing that. Their kits were like totally dialed in. And these guys that know what they're doing, who are experienced, it's really quite something to watch them execute. They're just hopping on these rocks and just skipping along,

and they're so fast on these transitions, and they train out on this course. They know exactly where to get out of the swim, where to put their feet, which rock to climb up. Like, it's all scoped, and they've just got it dialed. And then the tether, which was interesting. We learned a lot about that because it would have allowed me

to pull you at certain sections, and then, you know, it also keeps you close enough. I could have also helped you out of the water because you're tethered to the person who's on land, whether that's you or me, because there were a couple of times where you took a way better line getting out than I did. So a lot of it makes more sense in hindsight. But I mean, again, we knew that going in, that we're gonna have a massive learning curve here. And so if you'd look at Attila the way we do now for the world championships, you would approach it completely differently from, not necessarily from the training.

I think we would maybe add another segment into our training weekly where you do more of that obstacle running. Right. And of course, in the 24 hours before the race started, I reminded Rich, like, remember, we wanna run like we did, you know, on the big boulders in Tahoe when we're coming down that climb.

He's like, what, wait, what are we doing? Yeah, well, I think, yeah, I think I wouldn't change the big days, like the big long runs that we did and the big sort of swim run simulation workouts that we did. It's a 42-mile run here. Yeah. And I think we were well-served by having that.

And I think that that's probably something that not a lot of the athletes do. They don't have that huge endurance base. do like a lot of tempo runs or interval work, I would find some kind of bouldery place where I would, you know, work on my scrambling and my climbing and, and get more functionally strong, spend, spend some time in the gym, you know, focus on core work a little bit more and even just, you know, just general overall strength and, and agility, like doing agility exercises. So I get comfortable like tiptoeing around and, and landing on uneven surfaces and all of that. Cause yeah, I run trails and I do lots of elevation and I do quite a bit of volume, but I had zero experience with that at all. Like it's just a skill I've

never developed. And that was the primary skill. I think that, that, you know, distinguishes the people who really know what they're doing from everybody else. Yeah, you have to be able to withstand that first, or did Jonas say three and a half, three to three and a half hours? Three and a half hours, yeah. Really technical hard terrain in order to then still have the fitness and the legs and the energy to then open it up to make it more of an endurance race. Exactly.

But I would also say that our training, had we not had the quad stuff and the issues with the cramping, it would have been interesting to see where we would have shaken out. If let's say you take all our walk segments out of it, or you take all of our slower segments where we're dealing with that.

I mean, you throw us an hour faster. We could slice an hour off it, no problem. Yeah. out of it or you take all of our slower segments where we're dealing with that i mean you know you throw us an hour more uh faster we could slice an hour off it no problem yeah and so that you know that puts us into for not ever having done this so despite not having the x the the expertise of the unique climbing and bouldering and traversing and bushwhacking, we would have been pretty far up there another hour faster. So I think our fitness did display itself. And I think there's a space in swim run, which for a lot of the athletes that did the race yesterday, that could use more endurance training.

But that brings us back to what Attilo and swim run actually is. In most places, it's a totally different type of training and different type of race yeah the other races are much shorter exactly and it's more threshold and it's more speed and it's more swim favored and it's much easier on the body you get out on beaches versus straight up a boulder yeah so we finished in 10 hours and 44 minutes or something like that something like that uh we were 41st the four we came in 10 hours and 44 minutes or something like that. Something like that. We were 41st. We came in 41st place.

I think we were the fastest American team. I think there were three American teams, right? Yeah, I think we were. We're the reigning American champions. In the highly competitive burgeoning swim run scene in the United States. in the highly competitive burgeoning swim run scene in the United States. I think it's worth talking a little bit about the integrity of this race and the kind of ethos that the series and the race founders have really crafted and promote through Odelo.

Like Michael, who's kind of the face of the sport he created um he created the race with it's motts right as his partner yeah they're the the media company that owns the rights right so on yeah and michael is just a beautiful guy like i knew he was a special guy but the night um before the race when we had the race meeting and you got to hear him get up and talk and and and really kind of recollect the history of how swimrun began and his aspirations for not just the day to follow but what he wants this world to be all about are really you know beautiful like it's all about sustainability it's about it's about natural preservation They have a rule that if you are caught littering at all, it's an immediate disqualification. You cannot drop anything on the course whatsoever.

At all the aid stations, they had high quality natural products, not just gels and sugary drinks, but they had homemade energy balls. Like homemade, like I don't know what was in them. Like I think it was like cacao and dates and nuts and maybe some coconut or something like that. Yeah. Super tasty. You know, I was eating those all day long, those and bananas. Um, they had a, an electrolyte drink called precision hydration, which is a very low glycemic drink. Um, and that worked really well for me. So yeah, they don't want any junk and they don't want you dropping junk and they don't want you ingesting junk throughout the race. And, and I think that's a beautiful sentiment. It's all about like celebrating this, these extraordinary locations

where they hold these races and really holding them in high regard and respecting them. And the human connection was amazing too. I mean, he brings these 300 athletes into this room in the middle of nowhere in the world, right? And he immediately connects with everybody in the room. Well, before that, he hugs every single person as we get off the ferry. Right, you get off the ferry, you get a hug, yeah. As if he knows your story already. And then he has this very passionate description of the race and why it means so much to him and how it truly is in partnership and you look out for one another and until you go through the race even if it were less extreme than yesterday we understand it better in the extreme conditions

from yesterday but it truly is about looking out for your partner and looking out for the people around you because there is a big component in that yesterday where if you're not careful bad things can happen and he realized that way back when he took over this race and he wants people to look out for each other to go from this spot in the world 300 people as ambassadors of human connection and caring for each other and the people around you and he lives it he breathes it he displays it i mean we got a hug at coming off the ferry we got a hug at the finish line right we got a hug leaving today i mean the guy is just so connected to every one of his ambassadors that go out into the world, having experienced this amazing location and event.

It's very unique. You just don't normally see that kind of character. And it spills into every aspect of the race. And yeah, one of the things he said in that opening night was, look, if you see somebody who's in trouble, you stop and you help that person. This is no longer a race. Yeah, it's like it's not a race anymore for you. And we didn't experience that in the extreme with the exception of that one person early on who fell and that person was being attended to.

But there were plenty of times where some other competitor reached their hand out to help hold me up a rock and i pushed people you know people up from the butt and you know you're all just kind of in there yeah doing it together and that was really cool and the other thing is they do an amazing job with storytelling like have you ever been to an ultra race where they have a live webcast simulcast that's on YouTube that goes for, it was on for like 12 hours and they get professional sportscasters who've done their homework and they have crews out on the course at, you know, with the top guys and in the middle and all the way at the back. And they're telling stories the entire time. And I kind of tweeted that out, like, Hey, if you want to watch, you know, here's where you can do it.

So many people thought, oh, well, I'll just check in and see how Chris and Rich are doing. And they got pulled in. And they're like at work just watching it for hours or staying up super late into the night to watch it. I heard back from people like that too. Yeah. And they're like, this is, and it's just blowing people's minds. They're like, I knew it was hard, but like, this is unbelievable. So I think the fact that they prioritize that and they understand that you know having their media dialed in really helps tell their story and espouse the the ethics and the and the the ideals that they're trying to promote through their race like it's it's it's a really cool thing to watch and i also think it's great they're taking that over from that core four because we met a few of the core four over the last few days and those original four that came up with this event on a bet on the back of a napkin that live

out there and are familiar with out there they just talk the same way and they um the human aspect and the nature aspect is exactly the same message so So Michael took over this race, really bringing that to another level of wanting to promote what they felt and saw and realized with this event originally to a bigger platform. So what's your biggest takeaways from the experience well one that i absolutely loved it yeah you were like all in man i was laughing and high-fiving and just to know chris is to know like the harder it is the harsher the conditions the more difficult

it is like the more elated you become like you just start to just get like ecstatic you know the more difficult it is pretty visible yesterday i was having a great time well at the finish line when we got the hug from michael and he's like you know he's asking you questions or whatever you're just like you were just like beaming like that was the most and you've done i mean how many of these kind of races have you done? Nothing like this. Nothing surprises you, right? No, no, but this really was a new level of adventure. And it's exactly what I keep saying, right? When you can use your lifelong experience and fitness and walk into an adventure like yesterday was

and be able to soak it all in and live it and breathe it and smile through it and enjoy it. That's fitness, right? That's health and fitness to me, in the ultra endurance world, where it's like, you can take on an adventure like that, and just soak it all up like a sponge and finish with that elation. And that smile that we had we had is so rewarding. It was really great. Yeah. I mean, it's one of the highlights of my life. I can't believe we did it in hindsight looking back. It was just yesterday. Yesterday at this time, we were in it. I was like, oh my God, such a hard day. But then to complete it is just the most incredible feeling because it just doled out more adventure than you can possibly imagine.

It was just extraordinary. And, you know, some of the Swedes were like, sorry, the weather was so crazy. And it's like, are you kidding? Like, we live in California. Like, if we're going to do this, like, just bring everything you've got. And, you know. I kept saying after the race to people they're like what do you think and i was like if i wrote down in a journal before we came here what the perfect cool you know adventure would have been about this day or how i envisioned it it would have been yesterday yeah right of

course i didn't understand at that point what that meant with regards to the swims and how harsh the conditions could be if it's blowing like that and the chop and the distances in the water. But it was everything that I could have asked for, for that type of event. And the other thing that I wanted to say is that, of course, it was an amazing day, but to experience it as a team with you, I mean, that was, it was so much fun too, because never worrying about us finishing and just sort of being able to focus on each other as not, hey, you can do it, man. It was more just like, this is, this is how our day is, right we're just gonna experience it and let it unfold how

it unfolded which was complete rookies turning around the next turn going all right here we are now we're gonna go up that i guess i mean i'm totally grateful for that because there was such a beautiful aspect of it that we're both so new like doing it with somebody that would have done it before it's not the same but I knew going around the corner I was like he's thinking the same thing I'm thinking right cuz they'd be they'd be it would be much more serious all business okay here's where we tack left this is where we do this and I mean even in that you the idea like that that the idea that I had like when I was when we finished that the 13 mile run was that

okay we're basically done like there's just a couple of short segments we're on. But then I looked at, we wrote all the distances on our hand paddle and I kind of did some math and I was like, wait, we still have nine segments to go. And it was the classic ultra endurance volunteer that goes, hey, you're almost done. Right. I know. You're like, no, we're not. Yeah.

There's quite a bit to go. right i know you're like no we're not yeah there's quite a bit to go and even the the swims were really short at the end but there were there were like these gigantic bald-faced rocks where we literally had to like scale down 40 feet to get to the shore like trying to figure out how how are we going to get down there and not kill ourselves then that amusement park flume i mean you wouldn't draw make a flume like that in an amusement park because it would be too fast. But it was that perfectly smooth water going across that rock.

And I was like, what is this? Some sort of flume joke that we're just gonna walk through. But no, it was deep enough that the water was moving through so quickly. Yeah, unbelievable. Well, thank you for coming up with this harebrained idea and enlisting me to do this with you

because it was a beautiful gift that I will never forget my entire life. Me too. It's been a pleasure preparing for it and doing it with you. I mean, it was an honor to do it with you. Like, I just, I can't imagine it being any different. And so thank you for that. Thank you. I mean, I was saying to others this morning, like being able to do it with you. And

then we have this amazing opportunity to not only have these memories in our mind, but we have it all documented with our photographer. We have Tomas here who came on his own accord because he was inspired by the adventure and he wanted to photograph it. And so Tomas, why don't you come over here for a minute or grab Chris's mic? We have these amazing images of our day.

He took incredible, incredible photographs. He was in a wetsuit all day in these boats, pitching around and then getting out of the boat and climbing up on the rocks and anticipating our arrival to be in the perfect place to take these pictures. And we would see him there in this wetsuit with the wetsuit booties on in rain gear

with his camera covered in all kinds of plastic to prevent it from getting damaged. I mean mean what was that what was that like for you i mean it had to be you had your own ultra event to contend with well thanks for that um yeah i mean the whole event was um was just such a big production you know my my biggest fear going into it was how are we going to um logistically how are we gonna do this and um and as we as we got along i mean first of all i just wanted to say thank you to josephine um she's the pr organizer for the race um and um and everybody over there on the course and it was

just fantastic getting the help from the driver, the boat driver. He knew exactly where to drop me off, where to find you guys. And especially Emily as well, because she was actually looking over the scoreboard and where everybody is. I think you guys have GPS trackers on you, right? So that was great. So it was intense. The wetsuit helped.

I was looking at Jacob.ob is the official photographer i've seen his pictures and i was like you know what he's wearing a wetsuit over there that's a good idea and little do i know actually the wetsuit was a was a i think it was a five millimeter thick wetsuit and it was just perfect and i had these booties and i was running in those booties on those racks behind you guys and it was just perfect and I had these booties and I was running in those booties on those rocks behind you guys and it was it was slippery but you know I felt like you know like this is my chance right now I have to follow you guys and get what I can and honestly you know when I finished and I was like I hope something came out of it because it was raining

sideways it was getting colder I think you know you guys were pretty warm all day because you're moving so much but we had moments where we just sit there and just don't do anything and just wait in a boat and there were moments that we just had to just jump around and just just keep warm all day you know right and um so you're in a wetsuit for like 11 hours yesterday pretty much to take pictures it's still drying in the in my room over the upstairs so is it what you expected uh if way more than that i mean i was expecting you know just beautiful visuals and everything but the weather just really turned it up and honestly i loved it i loved every minute of it right i was in my element in your element man

well we're really glad and grateful that you came it's been cool you know it's cool that you came I loved it. I loved every minute of it. Right. I was in my element. In your element, man. Well, we're really glad and grateful that you came. It's been cool. You know, it's cool that you came up to Tahoe and we got to know you a little bit. It might've been a little bit weird if we hadn't met you and you showed up. You know what I mean? So I think it was great that it worked out that way.

And, you know, we've seen some of the pictures that you took, not all of them, but a couple of selects and they're fantastic. And they'll be cherished, you know know forever from this experience so i can't thank you enough for that it was interesting is what's the guy's name who's the main jacob is the main photographer for the race jacob at home sorry jacob if i mess up your name yeah but his photos are amazing and he was in the water he was in the water i just swam right by him and he's literally like in the water in a wetsuit with his camera taking pictures.

It was crazy. I would love to come back over there and photograph the whole race. My main focus is to find you guys and get shots of you. That was the biggest challenge. And going in, again, I want to thank the organizers, especially Josephine, for helping me find the driver with the boat. And Caleb was his name, was the driver of the boat.

And he was, like you were talking about the pig swim, those swells over there, I was sitting on the little ledge behind the boat, right? And I never had a life vest on, but he saw me just bobbing the up and down on the back of the boat he's like hey put this on right right away yeah you know because we were going up and down up and down and uh well you know halfway through the race we figured out how

to put the heat on because it's gotten cold and the boat wasn't working right and actually we lost power and in the first couple of hours so the boat was just going really slowly until we had to pull over to a little um a little marina over there and they figured out how to i think that the engine overfilled with water or something like that um so again the organizers came through that they helped me jump on their press boat and and they really took care of me and everybody there and it was just you know like you feel love in this race it was you there to experience the nature but but you feel love from from everybody around you you know it was fantastic yeah it was cool like even at the end the very final two kilometers or whatever there you are you and emily like sitting in the back

of a car like driving in front i like, where'd you get this car? Yeah. I didn't know where we got this car either. I mean, apparently everybody knows each other over there, you know. And Caleb was saying in winter, I think in February, that Uto was the final island. I think there's maybe like five or six people living there. Right, on the whole island.

So I guess everybody knows each other. And here there was a car, somebody from his family, I guess. They're like, sure, drive on the course. It's fine. He each other and here there was a car somebody from his family i guess they're like sure drive on the course it's fine he's like yeah i know this road you know i can drive you all the way to the finish line i was like what okay cool yeah it was great well uh i look forward to seeing the rest of the pictures and you know truly an honor and a privilege to have you along with us and i'm so glad that that you enjoyed it my pleasure it was my pleasure it was great yeah and i want to thank you know everybody from the organization as well uh michael and motz and all the amazing staff members and people associated with the race we were just treated with grace and dignity and we were welcomed um you know it would have been easy

for them to say oh these guys they they don't you know they've never done this before who do they think they are? Anything like that. But everyone was just amazing and wonderful. And we just met so many cool people. Yeah, and the competitors were amazing too. Also welcoming and so friendly is just all part of the bigger experience.

I know. So final thoughts before we wrap it up? I think everything that we prepared for prepared us somewhat for the day but i think we come out of it not only fitter stronger smarter but also with experiences that just make us better athletes healthier athletes smarter athletes and it's a good launching point for whatever you want to do next i don't know what that's gonna be gotta figure that out take some time yeah it's hard to top this too i mean yeah the emotions the intensity of the experience to go to much of anything else you have to sort

of temper it down because you can't match what that was right so thank you Chris thank you to everybody associated with Othello and thank you to all the competitors that welcomed us and I also wanted to thank all you guys out there who are listening to this we were on the receiving end of just an amazing groundswell of support out there. Um, it's been a privilege and an honor to kind of share and be transparent about my preparation leading up to this. And, you know, I kind of diligently put everything up on Instagram stories, like, here's my workout today. I just wanted to like, here's what I'm doing, you know,

leading up to it. And, and, uh, and then right before the race kind of tweeting out and saying oh if you want to watch the race here's the live cast and so many people jumping on board and then just getting so much like beautiful feedback from people out there who watched it who were cheering for us and that means a lot that's an amazing thing and so thank you for that because that was truly uh wind in our sails and i don't take it lightly and I appreciate it greatly. That's it. I think we did it. Yeah.

Anything else you want to say? You know, I think our fitness and how we came into it prepared was the best we could do. I mean, I don't, I wouldn't look back and say we couldn't have done anything different or better. Sure. Now that we know more, but I think we did a pretty good job going into it with our little swim runs,

with our training camp, with our long runs, with our swim fitness, because it was sure nice going into every swim yesterday. Just this, I got this. Yeah, the swim was not a problem. I enjoyed every swim. I didn't struggle with any of the swimming whatsoever.

I wish there was more swimming, you know, as a matter of fact. So that was great. Like I wouldn't change a thing about that. Yeah. And so from the coach's corner aspect of it, it's like, forgiven that we didn't know the exact details of the race. I think we were pretty well prepared. And I like what we did and how our buildup was.

And we're healthy. We both said that at the start of the race, like, you know what, we're here healthy. We're here fit. And now let's see how the day will unfold. And I think healthy emotionally, like we went into it with a healthy dose of humility. We weren't in it thinking, you know, having some kind of grand expectations about how we were going to measure up. We were very in touch with the fact that we were going to be towing the line with people that know a lot more about this than we do and and just being oh totally okay that's yeah like we're not here to like impress anybody we're here to participate yeah you know and i think i think that was appreciated on their part as well like yeah i think we respected the race yeah for. I think we're fair competitors

that respected what this race is and the racers it spits out. Right, because in the wake of, there's probably gonna be some people that are listening to this or like, I wanna, you know, there's gonna, they may have an influx of people next year as a result of all the sharing

that we've been doing about this who are gonna wanna do it. And I would say to those people out there, it's the adventure of your lifetime, like go for it, but understand that this is unlike anything that you've ever done. And it does require that healthy dose of humility and a level of preparation that's going to be completely different to anything that you're used to, no matter how advanced you are in triathlon or ultra running. Oh yeah. How many times did he say during the pre-race meeting, this is not triathlon? Yeah, I know. Well, I think they have a history of triathletes coming in who think they have it all dialed in and they're ill-equipped to sort of

understand that this really is a different beast altogether. So awesome, man, we did it. I feel great. I'm so grateful. Uh, what an incredible, extraordinary experience. I mean, I knew that we would walk away from, from this with great memories, but I had no idea that it would just be, you know, in many ways sort of life defining. Like it really is, you know, something that I just will, I will never forget. And I will always cherish. I will never forget Labor Day 2017 ever again. I even said to you during the race yesterday, this sure beats barbecuing. Yeah, I know. Right. We could be doing that. There's one guy who has all of the islands on the course tattooed on his leg. And I was like, well, I don't have any tattoos, but if I was going to get a tattoo that would be as good as anyone

I could possibly imagine getting all those islands you know inked on me not that I need the reminder because you know I don't need to be reminded of what it entailed so alright man well thanks for spending the hour with me thank you Tomas if you want to learn more about

Eau de L'Eau and Swimrun you can go to Eutele swimrun.com they did like we mentioned earlier they did this live cast it was 12 hours long but it's on youtube so if you have 12 hours to waste you can watch it but there's actually a lot of video if you just search on youtube you'll find a lot of cool videos um sometime this winter they'll put up like an edited, like sort of 30 minute version of it. Last year's was just gripping and amazing. So you can watch the 2016 one that's up there now and I'll alert everyone when the next one comes up. If you want to connect

with Chris and all of his wisdom, the best way to do that is AIMPcoaching.com or he's at at aimpcoach on twitter and instagram uh anything else you want to let people know about no that's good all right and what's next for you i don't know either but um i definitely like this swim run yeah you're hooked i might be hooked but you know of course we did the ultra endurance version of it. The other ones are way shorter, so I might not be as enthralled by it. But it might be fun. I think there's four races in the United States right now. There's one in North Carolina, San Diego, Maine, I think is the big one,

and I think there's one other one. And they're growing it quickly. Yeah, so perhaps we could hit a couple of those. It would be fun to kind of help welcome the scene to the united states like this is a beautiful and fantastic and super fun alternative for the burned out triathlete yeah and the fact that there are a couple races people are now starting to kind of hear about it i see the sport growing like it is absolutely in its infancy in the united states um it's it's you know, people in Northern Europe

are all about it. Like the day before the race, I did a training session with Jonas Kolting and a couple other people. And we were running all over the streets of Stockholm in wetsuits and jumping in the water and swimming across channels and getting out and like dodging tourists and business people.

It was crazy. And then I posted on Instagram, like we're in the lobby of the Grand Hotel, which is like the Waldorf Astoria in like dripping wet wetsuits. And I'm like, this is crazy. And then I posted on Instagram, we're in the lobby of the Grand Hotel, which is like the Waldorf Astoria in dripping wet wetsuits. And I'm like, this is crazy. But in Stockholm, there's groups of people that are training us all the time. They see it and they're like, oh, yeah, those are swimrun people. It's a thing here.

And so I think it's only a matter of time before it becomes a thing in the United States. And to the extent that we can be kind of encouraging catalyzers for that, that would be really cool too. As well as keeping with the theme that we've been given, right. With what we learned up on that Island of with the human connection and the nature connection of not, of giving back while you're doing sport. Yeah. And that was a big alluring point um from the very beginning like the fact that that ethos is what this world is all about was one of the reasons why i wanted to do this race because i wanted to i wanted to be part of that and we definitely felt that and to be part of it maybe as ambassadors here in the united states and taking part in some of the growing

events to help continue on that message i think is respectful to those core four that started it and Michael, the race director, and also what we believe in. Yeah, absolutely. All right, man, we did it. Awesome. How do you feel? I feel great.

Good, man. All right, well, let's go enjoy our final hours in Stockholm. All righty. All right, everybody, I'll be back here in a couple days with another episode of the podcast. In the meantime, you can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Rich Roll. And I'm just going to leave it at that. That's it for today. Thanks, you guys. See you soon. Peace, plants. Namaste. Thank you.