The Rich Roll Podcast - Path to Olympic Gold – Mind Over Matter (Part 2)

Episode Date: June 5, 2014

Welcome to Part 2 of my conversation with the lovely Rebecca Soni! To recap from Monday, Reb is a two-time World Swimmer of the Year; a multiple Olympic gold medalist & World Record Holder; a six-time NCAA Champion; a giant inspiration, especially to young women across the globe; as well as a beach dweller, dog owner, basic delight & overall legend now focused on giving back to sport through Atlas Ventures– brain training young athletes on the mental aspects of peak performance along with her best friend and fellow Olympian Ariana Kukors. If you have not yet listened to Part 1 of our sit down, check that out first. Then tune in here. It just gets better as it goes. I hope you enjoy the show. Let me know what you think in the comments section below. And if you have been enjoying the show, tell a friend! Peace + Plants, Rich

Welcome to the Rich Roll Podcast, Episode 89, Part 2 of my conversation with Olympic swimmer Rebecca Soni. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey gang, welcome back to the show. I'm your host, Rich Roll, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast. Thanks for dropping in. Each week, I bring to you the best, most forward-thinking, paradigm-busting minds in wellness, fitness, athleticism, creativity, diet, nutrition, art, entrepreneurship, personal growth, and spirituality. The goal is to provide you with all the tools, knowledge, inspiration you need to uncover, discover, unlock, and unleash your best, most authentic self. Today's show is brought to you by richroll.com. That's right. Sponsor yourself, people. I've been putting a lot of work into creating a robust and diverse line of products for you guys to

optimize your health. We got our cookbook. We have our meditation program. We have our garments, t-shirts, beanies beanies caps and a lot more cool garment products coming that are in development and of course our nutritional products you've heard me talk about it before so i don't need to go into it in length again we have our gy repair athletic recovery supplement product we have our vitamin b12 product very important if you're on a plant-based diet and pretty much for everybody lots of people are deficient in vitamin B12 and I take it daily. But we have a new product that I wanted to kind of talk about a little bit because I haven't

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They're an important biological component that regulate your body's pH and nerve function and muscle function and hydration. And when you sweat, you lose them. You lose the electrolytes. And it's important to replenish them and muscle function and hydration. And when you sweat, you lose them. You lose the electrolytes. And it's important to replenish them and replenish them properly. But what we don't need is all the sugar,

all the artificial flavoring and the additives. For the glycogen part, I use real food, bananas, dates, yams, almond butter, et cetera. And these electrolytes don't need to be tied to the sugar. In fact, it's best when they're not. And more importantly, you need to replenish them in the same proportion and balance in which you sweat them out. Most of the electrolyte supplements out there are very high in sodium, but not so much when it comes to calcium, magnesium, and potassium. Your body functions best when you have the right balance.

So it's important to replen you have the right balance. So it's important to replenish in the right balance. So we created this product, Ion, and essentially it contains the electrolytes in the exact same proportion and balance in which you sweat them out. So you're replenishing what you lose and it comes in a capsule format. So it's not tied to any of these sugary drinks or gels or any of the color additives, etc. It dispenses with all of that, so you just get what you need. I could talk about it for a lot longer, but you get the idea. If you want to learn more, go to richworld.com under the product section, and for this product, there's some additional information on it,

and there's some cool infographics here that kind of help illustrate what I'm trying to say. So that's it. Anyway, back to the show. Today, we're back with part two of my conversation with two-time Olympian and six-time Olympic medalist, back-to-back Olympic gold medalist and world record holder, Rebecca Soni. If you haven't listened to part one yet, please check that one out first. But if you already did and you dug it, then it just keeps getting better in part two. To coin a phrase from swimming parlance,

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So you grow up swimming in New Jersey and you reach a certain level of proficiency. You're quite fast. And you go off to USC to swim underneath legendary coach Mark Schubert. And for people that are listening that don't follow swimming, Mark Schubert is an absolute legend of the sport. He was a legend when I was swimming forever ago sport. He was a legend when I was swimming, you know, like forever ago. And he was a legend before I was swimming. Like he's had this incredibly storied career. He's built, you know, college programs and club programs.

He cut his teeth developing the Mission Viejo program back in the 1970s. And, you know, he's one of the most well-known and revered and most respected coaches of all time. And it used to be that kids or families would send their kids across the country to go swim underneath them at Mission Viejo. Like he was the guy. And his philosophy of training is based predominantly on massive amounts of volume, like churn and burn, like, you know,

just ridiculous volumes. And maybe that philosophy evolved somewhat over time, but like in the 70s, the 80s in the 90s That's what he was known for and some swimmers flourish under this high volume program and some burnout Right and he turned out his number of champions over the years and then there are other people that you know Sort of you know feel that they didn't reach their potential under that kind of philosophy And so you go and you show and you had sort of been a high volume person in high school, right?

So this was home for you to go and swim with Mark. That felt right. It did. And what's interesting about it is that for the true formative years of your career, like age 17 to 20, you developed to a certain level where you were on the world scene,

but you weren't a world record holder. You weren't, you know, you weren't qualifying. You were getting like fourths and tenths at these big meets, right? So you were on, you know, you were a name, but you weren't at the top of the peak, right? Yeah. And then, so Mark just exits, right? And then enter Dave. Right.

It's a whole new situation where Dave comes in. He's like, we're not doing this high volume stuff anymore. He has a completely different approach to coaching, which is much more intensity and technique focused. Um, but you're also in the pool with all these amazing breaststroker, like some of the world's greatest breaststrokers, men and women are with you, right? That came later. That was Beijing, right? Okay. So that came later, but this was kind of jarring to you and you weren't so sure about this, right? Like, and you almost were like, this is not, I'm out of here. Like I can't, I'm not going

to do this. I'd never really been introduced to that kind of training before. And granted, it was a transitional time and, and he wasn't, you know, Schubert was halfway out, Saylor was halfway in and that summer, uh, you know, I just remember it was so confusing because Schubert would do the morning practices. So we do our 400 IMs and whatnot in the morning and then come to afternoon practices. And we were doing butt dives and I was like, what is a butt dive? It's where you stand like backwards on the block and you do like a backwards pike and land on your butt. And like, it's this, the most ridiculous thing. I was like, why in the world, how is this going to make me better at 200 breaststroke? And, and, uh, like, sure it's fun, but it's a waste of time. You know,

I didn't, I didn't buy in and, you know, leave it to me. I was like, I'm going to be the best butt diver there is. And I, you know, I perfected the art of the butt dive, which, uh, I'm very proud of, but, uh, but, uh, it took a long time. It took us, it took us a year to figure it out. If you look at the other great female breaststrokers, Amanda Beard, they were peaking, or maybe not peaking, but they were swimming incredibly fast very young, like 15, 16, 17.

So here you are, you're basically 20, right? When this new equation is coming in. And yeah, it took like a year and a half, right? When this new equation is coming in and yeah, it didn't, it took like a year and a half, right? Before it really started to click in. It takes time and it's, it's very interesting and I don't think there's necessarily a right and a wrong way to train. I really value the endurance work that I did early on as, as a young kid and, and through, you know, high school and the beginning of college. And, and there's no greater blessing in the skies than Dave Salo falling into my life because I didn't want him. I would never have searched him out. But the things that I learned from switching to that kind of training and especially, you know,

I was a little bit older. It was a good time to make that transition because I don't think my body could have really held on to that kind of training for much longer. And so to try something new, I think, is so valuable. To try a different type of training and then, of course... Was there a moment where you were like, no, I need to go back to what I know? There's too much at stake? There were a lot of moments. There were a lot of moments. There were days when I would come into practice and practice would be over

and I was like, Dave, can I just stay and do 10 400 IMs right just for your mental which is terrible like just saying that now makes me kind of want to throw up I know but I know I get what you're saying but then at the same time you know it took us a year so um the story goes that we were at pack 10s at the time pack 10. And so our college season was almost over and CAAs was coming up. And, uh, this was my sophomore year now. And I just swam the 200 IM and I just did terrible. Right. So I go over to coach Dave and I'm like, Dave, like, see, it sucks like this. See, it doesn't work for me. Right. So that's the point when I was just ready to give up and, and, you know, you've been training with him for a year, for a year to give up and, and, you know, And you've been training with him for a year.

For a year. Um, and, uh, you know, I, I pride myself on doing what coach says. I'm the good girl, whatever I do, what I'm told. And I worked the hardest and this and that. And therefore, you know, I don't get yelled at very often. He laid it on me. He did not like what I was saying. He just like in the middle of the pool deck in a big meet, you know, he just went off on me and was like, you need to buy into this. And, you know, basically saying like, you're holding yourself back. It's not me. It's not my training. It's you, it's your problem. You're not buying in. You're also holding onto this belief. Like you're very attached to this idea that what he's, you're attached to the idea of proving him wrong, which is self-defeat. It is. It is. And I didn't really realize any of that at the time. And so in that conversation,

I was kind of, you know, thrown off by being yelled at like that. Cause that doesn't happen very often to me. Especially for the good girl who does what coach says. Exactly. And so that definitely, you know, woke me up a little bit. Then at the same time, I was like, I just decided then and there, okay, fine. I'll buy into it. I just let go. And I said, I'm going to step back, you know, I'll let him win. I'll put my pride aside. Like you said, it's not about proving him wrong anymore. I'll just say, I'm going to buy in. You're right. You know, I, I've been doing it, but with a little asterisk that says, I don't think you're right. You know? So I did everything to the full extent, but not

mentally going back to the mental stuff. Um, and so right then and there, I just decided to let go. And since then we've had a really great, you know, swimmer coach relationship and he's become someone that I look up to so, so, so much. And so was there one performance after that where it clicked in and you were like, okay, I'm on board now. Um, I can't remember a specific performance, but the rest of that meet went pretty well. I mean, granted I never was an IMR and that was the 200 IM that I was complaining about. But so my breaststroke events all went fine, went great. And, uh, you know, from then on, then we went into summer season, which was world champs year. And I think, I mean, it didn on, then we went into summer season, which was world champs

year. And I think, I mean, it didn't even matter. I didn't need that. I just needed that physical, you know, switch in the brain that said, okay, I buy in now I get it. And that's the hardest thing. Yeah. That's the hardest thing with changing coaches, with a new, with anything new in your life, with any change in your life, whether it's how you eat, what you do for workout, anything, what new job, a new, absolutely anything. It's all about just buying in and believing in yourself and in what's going on and just, just giving it a full go, you know, not just a halfway foot in the door, but just jumping in all in. And the thing is, is that it really just, it really took until 2008 before it really started to gel completely.

Right. So, yeah, I mean, I had a lot of being, yeah, you had, I mean, you had won your event at NCAAs every year. Like you were, you know, you were, you were winning like all over the place, but I mean, would it be fair to say that going into Olympic trials or the Olympics that you were like favored to set the world record and, and, and win the gold medal? I mean, maybe in your mind you were. No, not even in my mind. So that's the thing. Yeah. Because there were a lot of other, there were a lot of other people going into 2008 that were being looked at for that top podium spot. Right. So it really all like came together like, like this Cinderella story for you in 2008, especially after the weird thing that happened

at trials in the, in the hundred brush stroke, which is you got, you got, so tell us a story. You got four. Yeah. So that was,

I was coming in and, uh, you know, I said earlier that when I was a kid, I didn't never thought I would be an Olympian. The thought never crossed my mind. So it wasn't until the year before Beijing, you know,

the summer before I was finally at the top in the country and the 200 brush stroke and, and, uh, you know, really comfortably at the top. And, uh, I think I was having a little talk with Dave and he's like, you know, all you have to do is do what you're doing and you're going to be on the Olympic team. And I was like, wow, like no way, you know, that was the first time I ever thought about it. And so from then on out, that was my focus know for the next year and so uh when we got to trials you know a lot was going on in my mind between i know i got the 200 breaststroke like i'm so confident in the 200 but swimming the 100 it was always just kind of like i have no idea how to do this sprint race right um so because i'm all know, I'm all second half. I'm all the longer,

the better. If there was a mile brush joke, I would be awesome. But, um, so the a hundred is always first and we go into the a hundred and I do a prelims and semifinals. And all of a sudden, I think I was either first or second going out of semifinals and I'd not expected that in a hundred at all. And so all of a sudden in my head, I was like, Oh yeah, like I got this, you know, I'm just going to make the team here. And then I can relax for the tune to brush. I can swim an amazing race and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, it's not that easy. So I got up on the blocks and I was so nervous. I totally blew it. Like I totally blew it. My time would have made it from semis, but I was a second slower in finals and I got fourth place. And for their listener, they only picked the first

two to go to the Olympics. So you're out by two places. So I was out, but I still had my best race to come. And, and, uh, even though I never expected to make it in that hundred brush joke, I was still like, my world was just rocked. Like to lose it like that, uh, you know, to add a second in a really important race like that. I'd never had that happen to me ever before. And it's all about the pressure. It's all about, you know, there's something more riding on it. This is not just a national title. It's the ticket to Beijing.

And so, well, I came back and managed to get my head on straight and swim the tune to breaststroke and got, I won that event. So I got my ticket and when... And you went 2.22, right? Did you to 22, right? Yeah. So I already 22 and trials. And then, um, we're, you know, we go straight to training camp from trials. We got a month on the road. And the other thing about that, just, sorry, I keep interrupting you, but just cause a lot of people who don't know that much about swimming are probably listening. So there's this weird no man's land period in between Olympic trials in the Olympics. And it's, it's tricky because when you're a swimmer,

you train really hard and then you taper to try to be at your peak. And now you have this period of time where it's not quite enough time to really start training really hard again and taper again, but you can't really extend your taper that long without getting out of shape. And so there's a bizarre kind of chemistry in how each athlete approaches this bizarre period of time in between. And, and some people end up having better performances at the Olympics and some people are really flat at the Olympics because so much goes into making the team for trials. It's so intense. And then it's just gravy to be at the Olympics and people let their guard down or they can't figure out what that chemistry is to try to be in that peak condition once again. So in a period of time,

that's pretty much, you know, really short after trials. Yeah. It's really challenging time. And going back to my theme of not really knowing what's going on, I didn't really care much about what was happening during taper. And you see a lot of athletes who are so into the formula, what's the secret to success and taper, like exactly down to the days and the hours and the workouts and the yardage. And, you know, three days out, I can only do a 3000 and, and we can only do starts on two days out. And it's just so, it didn't make sense to me. I didn't, I didn't really swim by that formula for success. I swam on emotion and I swam on, you know, my passion and drive. It didn't matter how much I rested. So, um, I, I was lucky where I could kind of sit back

and I just said, I'm going to do, you know, whatever I need to do. I'm going to do whatever the coach says, and I'm going to be really confident about it. And if I'm confident in what I'm doing, then it's the right thing. But you don't have Dave, but I didn't have Dave. And so you've developed this ability to rely on yourself a little bit more because of the way that he approached his coach. Yeah. And I, you know, we knew the other coaches and so I trusted them and we had our conversations. Who were the coaches? I mean, there were, there were a lot of coaches, uh, you know, back then and Dave did come to London. So I trained with him, but, um, gosh, I don't, John Urbanchek was always my all time favorite

coach. Yeah. Just like chatting with him. And I mean, there are so many coaches from Terry McKeever to Troy from Florida. And, um, you know, just, it's so fun. Swimming is so fun in college because here are these coaches that coach your rival teams. But when you get to that level of the national team, whether it's world championships or the Olympics, all of a sudden you have to swim with them and you're, you know, here's the coach

from Cal and you know, I have to do what she says. And at the same time, in the back of my mind, I'm like, Oh, she's a bear. Like she, she's a, she goes Cal, you know? Um, but at the same time you build this relationship with them and they become, you know, they become your family too and your swim family. And, and so, you know, we had, I just trusted all the coaches. I, I, you know, we, we all become a family during that time, that period. And, and I did watch the people that panic about taper. And I just was so confident in the fact that I really could tell that as long as I'm standing behind what I'm doing, whether I think it's scientifically correct or not, as long as I stand behind it, it's the right thing for me. So, you know, I, I remember as a kid, I would do two or three day tapers for big national meets and that was it. Whereas other people do two weeks. And so, um,

I didn't really care about taper. If, if I get to get out early, that's fantastic. You know, that's awesome. But, um, I don't, I like to do, you know, do what I'm told and let other people worry about it. And as long as I trust in them and trust in myself, I don't think you can really mess it up that much. Two weeks out, you've worked your whole life. You can't mess it up. You can mentally mess it up. And that's where people get wrapped up in taper is, you know, they get wrapped up and I'm not doing it right. And that's the, that's the problem right there is what is that thought? It's not about what you're actually doing. It's about what you think about what you're doing. But when you look back and then you look at Beijing and

you, you weather this, this interim period, and then you, you show up at that meet and you drop two seconds off your 200 breaststroke time. And you win the gold medal and you set the world record. Right? So you have this, I mean, two seconds is a lot. Well, I came in, I dropped two seconds in trials and then two more seconds. So I actually dropped four seconds that year. That's an unbelievable progression.

It was. It really was. And I was the last person to expect it. And Beijing was so fun because I, as much as I trained for it that year, just being there was the prize, you know, and, and I always say that a happy swimmer is a fast swimmer. Um, nothing else really matters. If you're happy, if you're having a good time, you're going to swim fast. You feel like you were relaxed in Beijing? Yeah. I mean, I was more nervous than ever, but I, the general vibe of it going in, I was just so excited to be there. And, and I remember, you know, from getting there to, Oh my gosh, the dorms are so fun. And then the dining hall is so fun and everything's so fun. The pool is so fun. It was just the first time, you know, it was this beautiful experience where everything was

brand new and shiny and, you know, it didn't even matter. And of course it did matter how I did, but I was so wrapped up in the experience that that kind of just swept it away. And that's why I was, was able to swim fast and to do, to do what I did. And, you know, back to that hundred breaststroke, I got it. The whole thing started with this hundred breaststroke story. We got to, we got to circle it back. I mean, I, I found out that I was going to, I was going to swim it. So a teammate had tested positive, um, unfortunately, and, and they needed to fill the spot. It was too late to bring the third place person in cause I had gotten fourth. So there was still one person above me, but, um, and so it's too late to bring them there. I mean,

we were already in Beijing at this time and they said, well, do you want to swim in? I said, sure. You know, why not? I'll get another swim in. But, uh, I always love to get another race in before the 200. The 200 is my baby. That is my event.

Uh, the hundred, I always thought of as the warmup, the trial run, the like fun little, like take a go at it, try out the blocks and everything and just see what happens. And I ended up getting a silver medal in that. Yeah. It's crazy. So you're fourth at the Olympic trials. So you're the fourth American, but then one, one girl gets knocked out. Yeah. And then another one, what happened? She scratched or? No, she, I mean, she, I think she, uh, was either in the finals heat or in semifinals. So she was there. Yeah, but you were still third.

Like how did you make the team in the hundred when you were fourth? Oh, the third place. Yeah, so it was too late at that time. She missed like a deadline or something? There was some weird thing that happened. It was a deadline. I mean, a month had gone by since trials. And if you look at it, I don't know if she was, I don't think she was training.

You know, why would anyone train after they missed the Olympic team? So, um, you have to fill out some paperwork or something like that. Like, I don't understand how I don't, I don't know. And another thing I just, I mean, is that because she was doping and didn't want to get caught or something like, no, it wasn't her choice. She fought for it. No. So she, I mean, I don't, I didn't get too involved. I just, he said, you know, tell me if I'm swimming or not. Um, but the way that I understand what happened was that the, by the time that, um, that my teammate was out, so she couldn't swim it, um, for doping. And, uh, she's a great friend and I love her dearly. And, uh, you know, my heart goes out to her for that whole situation, but, um, she, she was not a, that was a weird situation. Like it was weird. Yeah. It's different from cycling, right? Like there was some, what is

just because people are going to want to know what the detail, we can't just gloss over this doping thing. I mean, it was from my understanding, it was just, she had no idea what happened, where it came from. One of those where, you know, she's taking like some over the counter, like supplements from GNC or something like that. Or what was the argument at least that she, that it was tainted supplements. So she was taking something legal, but it was tainted. What was the, what was the active ingredient? I wish I knew. I, I don't, I mean, is this something like what is, yeah, I mean like, but what, what is the kind of perception among, you know, the, the other Olympians about doping in the sport? I mean, is that some, I mean, people would like to know, like, is that something that you see

or you hear about or the rumors or is it, or is that like a really weird, rare occasion or is it like cycling? Is it totally different than cycling? No, I think it's totally different than cycling. I think, and I hope, but like I said, I tend to distance myself from things that I don't care for. Um, so I'll take the political answer and say, I know what I did and that was nothing. Like I literally avoided antibiotics when I was sick, allergy medicine, when I had allergies, I avoided everything. I took water and you know, spinach. And, uh, so I don't, I don't know. And I don't know what conversations were being had. That being said, I, don't, I don't know. And I don't know what conversations were being had. That being said, I I'm sure it's out there. I'm sure people did it on purpose. And I don't

think this was one of those situations, which is really unfortunate because, you know, I trained with her. I, we swam the same event. We were together side by side from training to making the team and all that. And to see that all being ripped away from her was really hard. She was actually my roommate, you know, in training camp. And so she just, uh, you know, got a note on there to the door that one day that said, we need to talk to you. And that was it. And I texted her and she's like, family emergency, you gotta go or whatever. You know, she couldn't tell me, but you know, I was just, it was a hard situation cause she was a friend and, and I, I know her a hard situation because she was a friend.

And I know her. I know that she wouldn't do anything like that. And since then, time's gone by, she did make the 2012 team. She won her case against the law battles. So she pursued it. She did. And luckily, because she got what she needed, which was redemption for her name. She wasn't doing anything on,

on purpose on that was wrong when that's what, you know, it really, my heart goes out to her and how much strength and perseverance she showed through all of that was incredible. And, and to see her to keep, you know, to go up and down and, and obviously we trained together. So, um, I, I did my best to, you know, kind of distance myself from the situation. Cause I didn't, you know, when we hang out, I don't want to bring it up and say, oh, what's the latest with your lawsuit? You know, I just wanted to be a friend. And it's hard because we're competitors and we're friends and all of that. But, you know, I'm sure some people do it. Some people don't.

Some people go about it like me and say that, you know, I trust myself and that's all I can do is, is I can be the best person I can be without any sort of anything. I'm not going to risk anything. And then, yeah, I'm sure there are. Would you do, would you do like protein powders or any kind of, no. So you have to avoid all of that stuff. I chose to because it's kind of like, and I don't know if that's right or wrong, you know, I don't know if that's right or wrong by any means. And, and I'm sure that, that I could have taken protein powders and yeah, I drank Gatorade. That was about it. And, uh, and I'm sure there was stuff that's perfectly legal that you can do. But to me that, to me that didn't sit right. And that's why I didn't do anything. And then that could be really naive point of view, or it could be a good point of view.

I'm not sure. You're buying something and you don't know what kind of facilities it's manufactured in. And then there's this crossover tainting and that does happen depending upon who, you know. But it was more for me the personal, uh, you know, personal reason of knowing that I'm doing, I'm adding something to my body. That's not part of me innately. Like it's not a piece of me and I'm adding it and it's, I'm doing it to perform better. I don't like that.

So I, I just avoided it. It just didn't sit right in me. I didn't want to like, I found a lot of pride in racing the way that I did and doing it as purely me, if that makes sense. So it wasn't about fear of getting caught. It wasn't about fear of doing something and accidental, you know, tainting and this and that it was, I'm going to focus all my energies about being better in practice and training and working harder, outworking everybody, not looking for a shortcut, you know, whether it was legal

shortcut or not legal. And so what did the diet look like when you were training? Um, when I was training, well, I mean, when I was in high school, it was the typical swimmer diet of eat anything you want foot long sub before themselves. I mean, they actually have like food eating contests, like how many donuts can you eat? And then college came around and you know, uh, then being a 20 something year old woman came around and, you know, then being a 20-something-year-old woman came around, which means that it doesn't matter how much you train, you're still going to change a little bit. And so I loved, you know, that period after college when I was a quote-unquote professional athlete. And I just got to do everything that I did in my day was about swimming and about my body and about, you know, making myself the best I could. So I took up, you know, I fell in love with cooking and I fell, you know,

I love just trying new recipes, trying new things and taking a lot of pride in what I put into my body that way. And so, I mean, I definitely ate healthy. I grew up with a, with a home cooked meal kind of lifestyle. And, and I loved going back to that after college and college, it was hard and, and it didn't feel right. And paprika. Sure. Yeah. So we had a lot of that as a kid. Um, I didn't quite make those. I saved those for special go home meals, but, um, I don't know. I just, uh, I started slowly, slowly, slowly just incorporating a lot more, uh, fruits and vegetables and fresh food. And my biggest regret is that I didn't try the vegetarian diet as an athlete because I was scared. You know, I just didn't do my research. I didn't, I didn't look through it and you just are so caught up in the stigma of you can't do

that. It can be scary. It's like you're taking a risk, you know, when everybody's telling you like, that's a bad idea. Yeah. And so I just cut it out as much as I could. Um, and you know, it is what it is, but after then, then comes the, what happens after swimming stops. And that's a whole nother story of, right. Cause I look at your Twitter profile and it says that you are plant powered. Yeah. So what's going on? So, I mean, I, uh, um, I didn't know a good word. I don't want to call myself like a vegetarian or a vegan. I just eat what I want to eat. And it just happens to be fruits and vegetables and lots of, lots of smoothies. If you also look at my Twitter, it's like all smoothies, but, um, it just, it just makes you feel good. But I, I mean, I cut it out a long, long time ago. It's been pretty much since, uh, I went through that whole thing after swimming ends and you're

used to your habits. It's just like a habit, like anything else is eating. And, uh, I remember the day that I had a little breakdown and I was like, I can't, the only way that I feel like I've eaten if I've, as if I'm like rolling on the floor and stuff, because that's what we have to do as, you know, as a young swimmer is that you have to keep shoving food in your mouth. And there's something weird about swimming too, because if I can go out and ride my bike for like four or five hours, like hard, or I can go on like a really long run and, and it doesn't really trigger my appetite that much. Like certainly I'll eat a little bit more, but like swimming, like you, you go like, you know, 7,000 or whatever, and you come back

and it's like, you just cannot stop eating. No, you can't never, you never get full. And I don't, I wish I knew the science behind that, but, but then, then all of a sudden, you know, that, that feeling of eating that much is, is that's what eating means to you. And so I remember having this moment where obviously I can't eat that much anymore, but I'm never satisfied anymore because I'm not working out. So I can't eat that much. And, and it's hard, like, it's really challenging to, to make that switch. And so, uh, you know, I tried this and that and nothing was sticking. So I just said, forget it. Like, I'm just gonna, I went through juicing. I went through all these sorts of things and nothing was like super

structured. I just, I fell in love, you know, I really loved cooking, found that I loved cooking the side dishes and eating the side dishes a lot more because it was, that's what felt good. And so, um, I cut out meat and that felt great. And then soon enough I cut out dairy because, uh, you know, I wanted to give it a try. And then soon enough I cut out dairy because, uh, you know, I wanted to give it a try. And then all of a sudden my allergies are gone and I'm thinking, you know, I've had these allergies my whole life and I've lived with, you know, I go back and watch videos of myself with doing interviews and I sound like this, I'm like stuffed up, like, and that's just who I like. That's how I was. I had terrible allergies and now those are gone.

And so, um, now the next thing I cut out was I cut out like the bread products and the pasta and, and that stuff. And all of a sudden I have more energy. And so it's just been a really slow progression and it's really cool and it's really fun. And I also just love the reaction from people. I read, I, you know, read something the other day, just one of those little funny little stickers with the people, uh, making funny faces. And then there's this little slogan. And it's like, nobody cared about your protein intake until you tell them you're a vegan. It's just so funny. It's like people get so...

A little stick figures of like, I'm going, I'm going. Yeah, I use that in my presentations. Yeah. It's like, I'm going to McDonald's. Okay. I'm going out for a smoke. Okay. I'm going out to get drunk.

Okay. I'm going vegan. What? You're going to kill your babies and you're going to die. It's so, I mean, to me, the most interesting thing is, is people's reaction. And, and I, I'm so curious about what that psychologically, what's happening in their brain and why they're so defensive and angry about it. And, and it goes back to, what's your theory?

My theory is that, um, my dog is barking at your kids out there. Uh, my theory is, is that we live in a culture that's fed by negativity and that's just what we're used to. And people are just, they're just used to it. And so I don't know, I haven't fully developed my theory, but, but my theory is that people don't want to hear if you're doing well, because they, they're scared to take that step, you know, or they're scared to try something different or, or it's just, you know, that is the essence of who they are. And you are offending them by saying that you're not even saying they're not right. Cause I don't go and tell other people they need to try this or, um, you know, if they ask, I'll tell them my success or whatever, but I'm not going to go

up and start a conversation that way. And I'm not telling them they should not eat that hamburger when we go out to dinner. But the one time I remember it really just clicked. And I, for some reason was just, I was feeling so good. I just had been on a trip with a friend and we'd just eaten really clean. We actually were in New York for a week and we had, we bought a juicer and a smoothie and we just like packed our bags every day with that. And I came back home and I was like flying high. I was feeling so good. And, uh, so I met some friends out for dinner and, um, you know, I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't even want a beer. Like, and they're like, what? Whoa, now you're too high and mighty to have a beer. And I was like, no like no I like I just know I'll feel better without it and soon enough it was like you're not going to

have one of those french fries I was like no I just don't want one thank you you know and the whole conversation the whole night turned into oh you're too high and mighty to to have a french fry with us and like does it really matter to you and that's a weird emotional thing and that conversation really even if you're not, yeah, you're not like telling anybody what to do or make it, you're just, you're just basically making a decision about what you want to do. And there's a weird twist or an interpretation that is made that suddenly shifts the dynamic of the conversation. And it's like, I mean, if you were to say, you know, I, I don't really like, you know, I, I like German cars better than American cars,

or I like Adidas and you like Nike. Who cares, right? But there's something about food when you're like, no, I like doing it this way, that suddenly it triggers something. So psychologically, it's fascinating. Yeah, and I mean, I think it's, people defend their food because it's the basis of who they are. And they don't necessarily see it that way, but it is.'s the basis of who they are and they don't necessarily

see it that way but it is if what you eat becomes what you are and they're you know it's it's your culture it's your family it's your heritage it's everything and so the other thing with that is I think people are really scared to feel good which is a strange thing and it's it goes back to all of um the mental training of things. And I've found a lot of times the thing that, you know, sometimes I have this one exercise that I've been meaning to do and I keep putting it off, keep putting it off, keep putting it off. And I have to sit down and think, you know, why am I avoiding this? Like the play, like why I just want to sit down and write about this one subject, but why, why am I avoiding it so much? And it's because

I'm afraid of it. I'm afraid of feeling good. I'm afraid of success. I'm the fear of success is an interesting one to me because, you know, I studied a lot about it in psychology, all the fears and rejection, you know, loneliness, fear of failure, but then there's fear of success. And I don't, I don't quite grasp that one yet, but I know that we all have a little bit of it of what happens when I do get that. Is it going to be good enough? Am I going to be good? You know, what's next and, and that whole thing. But I, you know, the reason I think that people are so, uh, you know,

afraid to make a change in their life all across the board because change is hard, but I think it's a lot of fear of, of then what, you know, what if I try this and it doesn't work or what if I tried and it works or what if I tried and it works, right. And that kind of shatters your self image. And, and that goes back to your voice in your head that says, you can't do that. You can't do that. You're not good at this. And you don't want to defy the image of yourself. So you're afraid to make that change. And I think that's, of the reasons maybe that people get so defensive about it. I don't know.

I haven't figured it out. Well, it's definitely not logic. Because if you say, hey, my allergies went away and I have all this energy, the logical response is, oh, well, I should investigate that because that sounds like a good thing. But what they say is, I can never give up. Yeah, but then it goes to anger or something that's weird. So, because if you were to say, if somebody said, well, how did you drop two seconds

of your breaststroke time? And you said, oh, I have this brand new bathing suit. That's really fast. And I did this one workout. They would all go out the bind by the bathing suit and they would all do that workout that you did. Yeah. You know? So, but when you, if you were to say, well, I dropped two seconds because I changed my diet to this. Oh, wait, not so fast. It doesn't matter if it's paleo or Mediterranean or Atkins or vegan or whatever. It's just, it's, it's, it's not inherently a vegan thing. Vegan thing has its own very specific kind of reaction set of reactions that it gets. But, but I think anytime you're saying anything about food, it raises a thing and people get, you know, it just gets weird.

It does. It gets weird really quick. Yeah. And, you know. So you have to be very careful about how you navigate social situations. Yeah. And, you know, it's like I don't want to be the dick. You know, I don't want to take anybody else's job.

I'm not there to tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do. Yeah. If somebody's interested, I'm happy to share my experience. Right. what they should or shouldn't do. Yeah. And if somebody's interested, I'm happy to share my experience, but I never proselytize and I never want to be the person at the restaurant who, you know, is getting, there's a bunch of focus or attention on because you're ordering something different on the menu.

I always try to do that very surreptitiously or like kind of, you know, like I don't really want anyone to notice. I don't care. It's just my preference. Right, exactly. And it goes, it kind of gets interesting when you talk about, you know, going out to eat and all that because, you know, now it's hard because

all of our social interactions revolve around food. Well, you can come and hang out over here. I know you need to move to Venice. That's no problem. Yeah. I mean, it's not that it's live in the best place in the world. And in LA. I can't imagine, you know, being in the Midwest or something. I'm sure, I mean, the options are growing there too, but it's just, it's interesting how, how much people bond over food and it goes back to the reason that they get so defensive about it is because that's their common thread to other people. Food is love. Food is how you relate to your, your mother, thread to other people. Food is love. It is love. Food is how you relate to your, your mother, your parents. It, it, it carries with it so much meaning and significance that we're not really conscious of, I think. And it's interesting to, to maybe sit down and think about that connection

and what, why do you feel these things? Cause you've probably never asked yourself that question and, and it's kind of, you know, have you ever had that conversation where I love country music, for example, and, and so I don't like to push it on other people. But for some reason, country music more than any other kind of music, if you, you know, come across a person who hates country and who loves country, there's, there's, there's going to be anger there. It's kind of like food. It's like, how, like, what do you mean you don't like country music? How can you not like it? And then the other person's like, how can you like that stuff? It's terrible. You know, it's just people are so strong about it.

And they judge you so hard based on your choices. And I mean, our choices are who we are. So, you know, judge away. It is who I am. But it's interesting that I kind of saw that relationship with country music. Like, why do you care what I listen to? You know, you listen to what makes you happy. I listen to what makes me happy. And that's, that's the end of it. And, uh, like let everyone choose whatever music they want to choose.

Do you think that, uh, for example, when you're like, Oh my God, my allergies are gone. Does, does that make you think like, I wonder what it would have been like if I was trying to train eating this way? I mean, does it make you think I should have tried that or it would have been interesting to experiment with that? Absolutely. I mean, that was my biggest regret of my career. And I don't even think it was a huge one cause my career was fantastic, but, um, but it makes me wonder, yeah, how would I have been? Because, um, you know, I came home every day and woke up every morning sniffling, and that never went away. And I was sick all the time, and that could have maybe been preventable. But then again, you're pushing your body so hard. But it makes you wonder, what if?

And I still am very, really active, as active as I possibly can. And so I mean, I'm doing great with it. I feel more energy than I ever have. And that's a really wonderful thing. So I do wonder, I do wonder what it would have been like and, uh, but you can't go back. So just moving forward. Right. you had this one thing we didn't talk about was that you had this weird thing in 2006 this cardiac ablation situation so so what what is it like is that something that's still relevant or is it resolved it's resolved so i had a called SVT. I might butcher it. Supraventricular technicardia. Uh, basically I don't know too much of the science of it,

but I know what it felt like. And it was basically an extra, you know, passageway between the chambers of your heart. And when it was triggered, um, by either excessive, you know, exercise, which I do every day or, um, something like caffeine or, um, funny enough, allergy medications. I was screwed with that one. Um, it's these triggers, um, let alone heat. I moved to California and trained outside in the summer. That's like heat dehydration and I was in college. So add in late nights, partying and this and that. Uh, so all these things were triggers when it triggered, basically the extra passageway in my heart would kind of open up. And instead of pumping blood to the body, my heart would just go back and forth inside of the heart.

So it would go in the right, you know, ventricle and then back to the other one. So my heart rate went up and the blood flow went down. So I usually, it was in the middle of practice, and I would feel it. I would feel it, like, kick in right away. middle of practice and, um, I would feel it, I would feel it like kick in right away. And it was, you know, not a terrible case, but, um, as soon as it triggered, I just, my heart rate flew. It's like your heart is revving like crazy, right? I lost feeling in my arms and legs and basically just like my body, you get so tired and you have to stop immediately because you're in water and God forbid it gets a little bit worse. Obviously, you know, the first thing you have to do is just get out.

When you say that your heart rate was like revving, I mean, it's kind of an understatement. Like I read somewhere that like at one point your heart rate hit like 400 beats a minute. Like that's insane. It was. How did your heart just not jump out of your chest? That was the moment that I said, I can't do this anymore. Because not only, you know, when I was younger in New Jersey and when we first diagnosed this, which took a long time, cause it only happened in the water.

I can't like run to the doctor's office and say here, like, you know, measure my heart rate. But, um, but, uh, back then it happened, you know, maybe once, uh, every few months and then I'd get out, you know, wait for the heart rate to go back down. And sometimes that was it for the day. Cause you just like feel this overwhelming feeling of exhaustion and that lasts for two or three days and then you can get back into it. So it was a big chunk of training that just was so blah. And like, uh, you know, when I moved out here to California, it only got a lot worse for all the reasons I mentioned before and, and just general, like increase in different kinds of training or whatever it was and being outside and, and it started to happen every single day. And before I knew it, you know, I didn't, I didn't want to be that person that

always got, I was so mad when it came right at the middle of like a hard set, you know, I love to work hard and here I am getting out in the hardest part of practice. And it just, it didn't sit well. I knew people were looking at me and being like, Oh, there she goes getting out again. And it just, it was, it was so hard. And before I knew it, she's faking it again with that 400, 400 heart rate. Uh, before I knew it, I was last at the beginning of practice. I was just waiting for it to happen. And I wasn't trying to happen with more regularity every single day. And, uh, so I just, there was one race in the middle of summer, uh, where it happened in the middle of the race. And at this point, so, uh, it was just normal, right? So it didn't feel as, as threatening. So I could get through it. I just kind of like pudged through it. And you have doctors saying,

look, you know, this is crazy. What are you doing? You've got to get this done. You can't be in the water when this is happening. No, because my coaches knew I knew. So if God forbid something happened, they would, you know, all you have to do is like pull me out. It's not like I'm going to go into cardiac arrest, I hope. But it was 400 beats per minute. I remember counting that one day. It was like, it's a challenge just to count that fast. But, uh, it happened in the middle of a race for the first time. And that was the moment that I said, you know, that this is not okay. I can't, I can deal with it in practice, but I can't deal with it in the middle of the race. And, uh, so when it happened in the middle of the race was the time when I just said, you know, this is it. I went to the coaches at USC. I went to the doctors at USC and luckily I was in a really

great facility and people took care of me. And, um, you know, I couldn't necessarily have afforded a procedure like this on my own or, you know, thankfully my school helped me out there and, and, uh, you know, we just decided to get it taken care of. And it was a fairly easy procedure is a cardiac ablation, which is minorly invasive. And it's like a catheter with a laser or something. Yeah. Yeah. And so,

so we decided to do it, you know, that summer it was either 2006, 2007, uh, 2006. So, but still fairly close to,

you know, Olympic time. And, and I just remember when I got back into the pool, um, I just felt like, wow, like this is how everyone else feels. Cause keep in mind by this time, I'd already been training with this for a year and it took longer

to undo the damage of training badly for that year than it did for my body to my body recovered right away. And I had this feeling of, uh, you're able to manage it. Yeah. Your man, your heart rate is, is not escalating. And so, uh, but it took a lot, it took about a year to get back into training in full force. You know, it's interesting. I wonder, have you ever thought about whether that period of time where you were training under that kind of duress, where your heart rate was racing like crazy, if there was some kind of, uh, like physiological adaptation that your body made that, that could have helped your swimming ultimately. I mean, you have to resolve it,

but that period of time where you're training where you sort of had to acclimate to your heart rate going that fast and learning how to bring it back down. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely possible. I know that's the first time I've heard of it that way, and it makes sense. I mean, plus just dealing with it mentally too. That was huge, I'm sure.

Right. To the point where I was pushing it for years and years and years. And just that one last year, I couldn't push it anymore. And that's when I fell to the back of the lane and it was not trying as hard because I was just, oh, it's going to happen again. But it seems like it wasn't that big of a deal to do the procedure and then it was resolved, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's always risk with whatever, but it really wasn't that big of a deal to do the procedure and then it was resolved, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's always risk with whatever, but it really wasn't that big of a deal. It was just about,

uh, you know, taking the time to do it. And, uh, I don't think I ever thought it would get that bad that I would have to do it. But, uh, yeah, once, once I did it, it was gone and, you know, I still felt it triggering all the time, but it wouldn't actually go through. You know, I remember I'd be in the middle of practice and I'd feel this a lot like whatever it is in my heart would normally have triggered. And I'm just like, haha, I win. You know, like everything went fine. And so slowly I built back up in training and got back on it. But, yeah, I'm sure that somehow both physically and mentally I grew from that.

And it was challenging. But I never wanted it to be a big deal you know so when I came back that next year that year is actually uh that was 06 yeah it must have been 06 so that summer was a trials meet and for that trials meet you made that summer's world champions as well as the next summer so I came back I didn't make any teams for the next year, uh, which is hard because by the time that next year had rolled around, you know, as 2007, so you're rolling into the national team. So you're rolling into the 2008 Olympics after, you know, having this experience where you're not, you know, people aren't looking to you, you, you, you weren't weren't even on these national teams a year before. So what's interesting is that then,

well, there's two things that I want to get to. We're like coming up on two hours here. There's a couple of things I want to talk about. One is, so then you go to Beijing, you break the world record, you get the gold medal, you go 220, you didn't quite go 219. So maybe in your mind, you still haven't achieved your goal, but certainly you're in a very different place all of a sudden than you were a couple months prior, particularly in the public eye, you know,

suddenly like, you know, average people that don't know anything about swimming know who you are because you're on the today show or whatever it is. So how does that, you got, you come back home after that? Like, how is your life suddenly different? Well, luckily I was still in college. So being still in college, I got right back into my routine. I had this awesome community of people that, you know, both the swim team and USC people that, it was amazing. It was so fun both to come home. How many USC swimmers made the team that year? Gosh, you're testing my memory. Well, Shanto, right? It was so fun both to come home and how many, how many USC swimmers made the team that year?

Gosh, you're testing my memory. Well, Shanto, right? He wasn't at, no, that was London.

That wasn't until London that he came over. Um, I mean, there were, there were a couple, there's the club team and then there's the college team, right? Yeah. The club team and the college team.

So, uh, you know, I, in Beijing, I I never expected those results. And I mentioned 220, and that was a goal in my mind, but I didn't think I was ready yet. And so when I catapulted those four seconds in that year and I was just above the moon,

I did not care that it was not under 220. That didn't even cross my mind. Yeah, a year earlier, you were at 224. Right. I mean mean months earlier i was so um and for you know however that happened and i mean i've been really fortunate and i i credit a lot of that to both you know doing things my own way and just being able to zone out i know that i'm not somebody who uh you know needs to be looking at results all the time. I'm not someone who is always

looking at results. I didn't care what splits everyone was doing. I didn't, I didn't focus on any of what was going on there. I only focused on myself. And so, I mean, that really, that really helped me in that way. But, uh, yeah, when I, when I came back from Beijing, it was just a lot of fun. It was a fun time. It was a fun place. And at the same time, I didn't know if my swimming career was over or not. But I had to get back in and finish my last year of college swimming. You know, I wanted to go for that fourth year of NCAA title in the 200-route.

So, I jumped right back in. And after NCAAs's i kind of fell off for a while and took a month or two off and tried to figure out do i really want this again do i really you know want to keep pushing it because i'm now out of college and so on so forth and uh it was 220 that brought me back i said i'm not done yet that was the thing that was going to be able to bridge you for the next three years or whatever yeah and it's interesting for us to i mean i'm sure a lot of other sports do it as well, but we live on a four year cycle. That's, that's just the way it is. And you need to be at your best once every four years. But what happens after that time, you know, what happens

when you come home and all of a sudden that thing that's pushing you isn't there anymore, whether you're still swimming or not. And it's also was interesting to me that, you know, I have a lot of friends obviously that were there with me at the Olympics and people from other sports that I've seen. And in general, the trend that I saw was that if you do well, if you achieve everything you want to achieve at the Olympics afterwards, you're going to be way more depressed than somebody who did not achieve what they wanted to achieve. Cause they still have the fire. Yeah. I mean, they have so much fire left in them and I'm just like, you go do what you gotta do. I'm going back to bed, you know? Um, but, uh, it was inevitably the two 20 that brought me back. And I never told anybody that until after it happened. And

you didn't even tell Dave. No, but he never say like, why are you doing this? What's driving you to, to continue? Or it's just a given. You know what he said? We had a little talk, uh, after that time when I was like, do I keep going or not? And, uh, he was like, if you, if you quit to, if you retire today, I'd be happy. I'd be proud of you. And I was like, that's not what you're supposed to say. You're supposed to say, no, get back in the water because it's a little like pedantic or that just shows,, you know, how awesome he is. But, um, but that made you really think, you know, it's not for him, it's for me. And so I took my time to figure it out. And I ended up, um, doing this event in Hawaii. You know, I got to go out to Hawaii, do this awesome event called swim with Mike. It's a great fundraiser, but I'd never been to Hawaii. So that's the USC. Yeah. They do it at USC and

they do it in Hawaii. And I think I didn't know they did it in Hawaii. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I should go. Um, but I was there for a week and my sister came out with me and we just had a little, a little downtime. And, um, I just, I hadn't been swimming for a little while for the first time in probably 12 years that I took more than a week off of swimming. And I just was up at the school at the University of Hawaii. And I was like, hey, you know what? I'm going to come to your practice tomorrow. And they're like, great.

You know, typical Hawaiian awesome mindset of when I got there, everything was just so chill. Like, you don't want to do pace? OK. You know, just do it. Like, just have fun, you know, just enjoy it. And that really made me have a lot of fun with it. And when I came back from that, from that trip, after I, you know, I ended up in the pool every day because I started to have fun again. And, uh, after that trip, I was like, okay, I got to focus on the fun. I see that now. I don't need to focus on times because the times don't matter for another three years. I just need to focus on the fun. I see that now. I don't need to focus on times because the times don't matter for another three years.

I just need to focus on the fun. And that's huge because when you reach your level and you've got another couple of years left and you've got sponsors and you have commitments and there's the pressure, the fun is going, you know, for a lot of people, there is no more fun. Yeah. And you see those people that are so wrapped up in times and taper and all these things that are kind of out of their control. And I think it just puts them, they think it puts them at ease a little bit, but I didn't need that. And I recognized that I just wanted to have fun. So

when I came back, I told, I pulled Dave aside, I said, you know, yeah, I'm going to do this thing. And, and just, you know, don't you dare tell me a time for the next month, two months, three months, however long it was, you can look at your clock, but do not call out my pace. Cause you know, some practice you're doing pace all the time. Coach is calling out times and you're just like, I'm way off or I'm on it or whatever. I just, I don't want to know. I'm going to come and I'm going to have fun. And you know, you can find me at the bottom blowing bubble rings and don't bother me. Like, let me do my thing. And he was all on board with that. And so I really just tried to emphasize the fun part of it. And it became really fun.

You know, my goals switched from I want to hit my pace today to I want to make someone laugh today. Or I want to blow a certain number of bubble rings by the end of this week. Or whatever it was. It was always focused on the fun aspect of it. But at some point it has to turn serious. Oh, yeah. And it did. But that came when the passion came back. was it was always focused on the fun fun aspect of it at some point it has to turn serious oh yeah and it did but that came when the passion came back you know once once it became more important and you know of course we're training and training hard every day but uh the focus shifts on its own

you know when when it comes time then then you can push it then you can get back on the pace and all that crazy stuff so and there were a couple other things that interesting things that kind of happened around this time one is this really is where the uscb crew like really started to take shape right like you had all these amazing breaststrokers suddenly descending on usc from kitajima from japan right you then you have eric shanto you have alexandra yeah you have uh jessia Fanova. And Amanda, was Amanda Beard? Amanda came for a short time, yeah. So like who's left? Like that's the who's who of breaststroke.

It really was. Every single one of those athletes has a very different stroke. Yeah. And has a very different training style. Yeah. And you have Dave like trying to manage and balance all of these incredible talents. And, you know, I think there's an idea that you guys are just racing each other every day. But from what I understand and read, like no, you had individual, you weren't even always in the same pool at the same time and

you're all doing very different things. And yeah, I mean, Dave, Dave did a great job managing that. I mean, it can get hard with that much talent in the pool and, and guys were competitive. The girls were competitive and it's hard as, as much as, as much as I love and respect my teammates, you know, when it comes down to it and she's beating me again, it gets to you. Oh, yeah. It's going to wear you out mentally. But it was a huge... How are you supposed to beat that person when that person's beat you every single day in practice for the last six months?

Yeah. So there's a lot happening. But when you come down to it, the opportunity to train with not only the top girls in the field and, and to train with the guys and someone like Kitojima who, you know, I watched swim for years and he's just untouchable on the men's side. And then, you know, then his biggest competitors are training right along with him and pushing each other and to see that and, and to, to be able to push each other to that extent. And, uh, you know, you know, it was all about. It's got to be this weird mashup of like totally inspiring and understanding like this is a very special moment that's happening right now.

And also like total dread. Yeah. Do I really? You know, because every day it's like you got to see, you know, the best of the best and you got to be on your game. Yeah. Yeah. But it was a great environment.

And we had an equally powerful freestyle group you know especially on the men's side pretty much the top heat with the exception of like phelps and lochte were training there from across the world and i think we had about 25 or 26 athletes at the games from trojan swim clubs which was just incredible and i'll never forget one of my, my top memories from London, uh, you know, one day, cause when you get to the village, we're all separated by our country. It's no longer, you know, and Dave was on the U S team, so he couldn't coach our other athletes, unfortunately, but we had our assistants there and all that. And, um, he did what he could, but, uh, we all kind of get separated and, uh And we see each other here and there.

And it's always amazing. But we had this one day when we were like, OK, we need to take a team picture. So Dave sent out a tweet. That's how he tells us all. He sends out a tweet that says, Trojan, assemble at the Statue of the Rings at 7 o'clock tonight for a team picture. And some people didn't even get it because who sends a tweet? Send me an email or something and I'll get it. Um, but anyway, seven o'clock rolls around and, um, the, the statues rings were the ring statue was right in the middle of the

village. And so, uh, it was also right outside the USA area. So we kind of went out there, uh, and we're just sitting and waiting for everybody. And it was just a really cool moment where everybody is wearing all their countries, you know, get up the sweats and, and the whole nine yards and we're just coming from all different corners of the village to meet together, like in front of this iconic symbol and take this picture together where, you know, there's people in front of this statue all day long taking pictures and you

kind of got to wait your turn. And, and you know And it's usually people from the same country or somewhat similar. But when it was our turn, we all go up there, and it's just the most scattered group of people. The guys, the girls, all the different countries from Tunisia to Germany to Japan to the U.S. And before I knew it, people from random people walking by were taking pictures of us. Like what were they thinking? You know, what is this random group of people doing up there together? But it was a really, uh, really awesome. USC had been its

own country at the Olympic swimming. They would have had, they probably would have been up there in the metal hall. Probably. Yeah, definitely. I mean, as a, as an alumnus of Stanford, as a, as a loyal Stanford Cardinal, this pains me. I mean, not to Brad, but what is it? We would have been six. That's acceptable. It's not acceptable. I mean, I can't fight on please with the, the, the whole, like, whatever the fights on our it's terrible. I can't even next subject. Yeah, no, it was, it was an amazing moment and it just showed that we were there to compete, but we were there together, um, to be on an Olympic team, especially the U S swim team. I mean, there's about 50 of us and we train together, you know, for the whole month beforehand. So we come in as a team

and I cannot necessarily think of any other team that really does that. And, uh, you know, the, the experience with the women's team in London was absolutely incredible. I, I'd never experienced that, you know, with the exception of a college team, but to a much greater extent, obviously it's a bigger level, but, uh, but you know, we spent so much time together and we really built this camaraderie with our friends and teammates. We made that silly little call me, maybe video. I saw that. And, uh, I'm going to put that up in the show notes for the episode. The whole swim team made this call me, maybe music video, like where they lift. Oh my God. And it took it took like a week you know i bet that got a lot of views right millions did it get millions yeah and we had our video editor guy

who who does all our underwater video for swimming obviously he's a whiz with video and he put it all together like he did all the editing so it was amazing and right uh it was just a fun way to distract yourself well it looked like everybody was having fun we were having a blast and we were all you know supporting each other, and when we walked in, whenever we walk into the pool deck team USA is just like the show stops. It's like, okay, we're here. And it's not because we're USA, but it's because we're such a huge group of people. And we're all, you know, you can tell that we are a team and in such an individual sport, like swimming, that means a lot. It means a lot to step up on the blocks and, and yeah, here I am racing my biggest competitor and she happens to be my teammate, but we are

going to give each other a hug before and after, because we're doing this together. And, and yes, we want to win, but when it comes down to it, we want to win for USA. And as long as USA gets the medals, then, then, you know, there's, there there's more going on but that whole camaraderie and and you know giving your teammates hugs after you get you know through all the media and coming back to the team center and just like getting all those hugs and and just the moments that you share with your 200 breaststroke title and you also break the world record again so so in beijing you go 220 in london you go 219 and so it's easy for an outsider to kind of look at that and go all right well four years, you know, like half a second or whatever, a second. But what that, that really doesn't tell the whole story because the sort of other interesting thing that was going on was the skin suits got, the rules changed.

And so the super fast suits that everybody was wearing in Beijing were now no longer okay. And I think you cannot, you know, this had a massive impact on everybody's times over the next four years. And a lot of people, women and men, you know, couldn't, they couldn't replicate the times they were swimming in 2008 in a traditional suit. And I think in breaststroke, that suit becomes particularly interesting depending upon the kind of stroke that you have. And there were a lot of your competitors that really struggled to match their times once those rules changed. And it seemed like because of your particular stroke mechanics,

the way that your stroke worked and the way that you're very core focused, like you're not like super heavy on the arms and not super heavy on the legs. Like you have this nice flow or whatever that, that it either didn't seem to make that much difference to what you were doing, or maybe it even was played into your hand, into your favor. I don't know. But the fact that you went a second faster, really, you actually went quite a bit faster because you were not, you, you, you didn't have the benefit of being in that super fast suit. Is that fair? Or relatively, um, the suits was an interesting year. So the suits, the suits really came into play in 2009. Uh, you know, we still had fancy suits in Beijing, but they weren't quite as extreme as the next year. So it was 2009 when they really got crazy yeah but that's that's the year that all the world records were taken down and and then you know then

they took away the suits and took us back to a suit that predated beijing even so um no more leg suits but so in 2009 you were still you weren't training seriously so So like I was on and off and yeah, so I, I, it wasn't as serious. And I also really hated those suits and to the point where I, I didn't even try one until try the trials for that summer's world. So it was, uh, I swam the morning in probably the hundred breaststroke. This was in trials and probably Indianapolis, um, in 2009. And I swam the morning race and I was something like sixth or seventh, which is not really what I like to do. And, uh, you know, the time was fine, but everyone else was just so much faster cause they were in suits. And I still was like, I'm going to make it without the suits, you know, throwing my typical, like I'm doing this without help kind of thing. And I was

so anti-suit and, um, and mostly cause I'd never tried it and I didn't want to try it. And so, um, so, so what happened that year, I went through a little breakdown in between prelims and finals. I thought, I'm not going to make this team if I don't put on a suit. Like that's, that's a bad feeling to have you. It's like, do I really, are we really at that point where we have to do the next greatest, like you have to jump on board to even be competitive. And so in between prelims and finals, I got a suit. Um, I got one of the arena suits. They, they were nice enough to like hand one to me. And I went and tried it on in the hotel, like hot tub for the first time, which that's nowhere to put it on for the first time. And, uh, and so I ended up wearing one that night and I made the team, but I just, I wasn't ready to race in it. I didn't,

it changes your body. It changes how you feel. It's changed your stroke. It changes everything. And the people that really succeeded that year, um, yeah, it was because of the suits, but because they learned how to adapt their stroke their body their technique they were really smart about it and i was not and so the suit makes you go a lot faster and i had done great in the hundred brushstroke i won that at the worlds in rome that summer and uh 200 brushstroke around hey should we let him out it's okay It's okay. Hey, dude, just a few more minutes. It's cool. Hey, Cody, come here.

So the 200 breaststroke came around. I swam the morning. Everything went well. Semis went well. Finals came around, and I just, I was going so fast. I felt so good. I felt like I was going smooth and easy. I went out in the first half of that race, And I was, would have meddled in the hundred brush joke

halfway through way too fast, but I just felt smooth and easy. And, and before I knew it, the last turn came around and I was like, I'm in trouble. I went out way too fast. I went out way too fast. I was like four or five seconds ahead. Um, I would have broken the world record by like four seconds. Right. And it just, uh, it just hit me and it just all, um, came spiraling down. And the next thing I knew, I was like, just get to the wall. I just want to get out of this pool. And I ended up getting like fourth or fifth place. Um, I just stopped moving. And, uh, that was just a bad tactics on my part. I didn't take the time and effort to, uh, to work on it. And so I lost that year, but, uh, I was so glad when the suits were banned, you know, all the

records went down, but, uh, the big discussion when they were, they were going to ban the suits was, well, we're never going to touch those world records again. But in my head, I was like, get rid of them, get rid of those suits, get back to the normal suits, make it even playing field, make it back to all about you, your body, the athlete, and not what suit they're wearing. And the sport will catch up. I mean, you look at it now and it's like, it's crazy. But if anything, you know, where everyone was saying, we're never going to touch those times again. I said, there's a goal for you. There is my goal. You just set my goal for me. And now that you put it there, I know it's possible physically human possible, and I'm going to get it. And so, so that really helped lock in your, your sub two 20 goal. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And, uh, so that world record, my world record from Beijing was broken. Um, and I

was just, I remember watching that race cause it happened in semifinals in the other heat. So I actually watched that race before, before, after I swam either way. And, uh, I was watching it and I was like, I don't care if she breaks the world record, but she cannot go under two 20, like do not let her. And, uh, she ended up being a two 20.1. And I was like, Oh, thank goodness. Which is not what someone says after you're wearing a suit. Yeah. Yeah. But I, there was two parts to my goal, break two 20 and be the first woman to do it. It doesn't matter what suit, no asterisks next to it. Like. Break 220 and be the first woman to do it. It doesn't matter what suit. No asterisks next to it.

I wanted to be the first, and that was that. And so to get both of those pieces was a really special thing for me. Yeah, cool. We've got to wrap it up. But I have to ask you one more thing. So it's very interesting that right now Michael Phelps has dipped his toe back into the pool. And it's all fun and games and it seems very lighthearted. But, you know, it's pretty interesting that he's making this choice, right?

Like he's done everything in the sport. What would compel him to keep going or to step back into it? And so I'm just interested in what you think about what's going on. It's interesting. It's fascinating. Like I can't wait to see how this story continues to evolve. Well, me too. I'm excited to see what happens. Um, I don't know. I mean, I, I haven't had the chance to talk to him about it and I would love to, but obviously I don't want to bother him with, with asking what everyone else is asking. Um, so I am interested. I don't know. I don't know him that well, so I can't tell you for sure, but I mean, it's exciting to see

what he can do. And obviously, you know, he's older, it's been time and nobody can really be on top. He can't get another. Yeah. The pressure is kind of off now. Because it's like, hey, man, I can just go have fun and let me see what I can do. Like, if all he does is say, I'm just going to do the 100 fly, like, that's the only race I'm going to do, and just focus on that. And, like, as a personal challenge to himself, I wonder if I can make the Olympic team.

I wonder if I could, you know. And that's great. It doesn't matter whether he goes slow or fast. Yeah. I mean, if you were asking me what I would do, it would be a different answer, but like I said, he makes his decisions and, and I just think he wants to enjoy the sport a little bit longer and that's, that's great. He's such an inspiration to athletes and to have him on the pool deck with those young athletes that are now up and coming.

I think that's just going to keep on motivating people. And, and I think he's going to do really well. Obviously I think he's going to cut down his, he's not going to swim eight events, um, because he's not, you know, that's, that would be really hard to be in his situation where literally like he doesn't have to, you know, he's financially set. Like he's, his life is full with his obligations to sponsors and foundations and all of that. And that's a life of meaning and purpose. Right. So, you know, the discipline and the work that's required. I mean, he looks pretty fit.

Like he doesn't look quite as fit as he does at the Olympics. But like for a guy who's years out of the sport and doesn't really have to do anything, it's like he looks pretty good, you know. And that doesn't happen for nothing. Right. I was like, he looks pretty good, you know? And that doesn't happen with, for nothing. Right. Like he's put some work in. Yeah, he's definitely driven and motivated. And I don't think he's the type of person

that can go half in. Right. So it'll be a great story to watch. I'm excited to watch. I haven't necessarily been, you know, too informed and paying attention, but I know that everyone's really excited about him being back

so that's great I mean it brings attention to our sport and that's a wonderful thing and that only progresses the sport I mean that guy's done so much for us for all of us um between him and Missy Franklin it's just it's great and um you know to have him still be around and still be a force in the sport that, that made him who he is, is just fantastic. I'm really excited to watch and I just, you know, hope that he's enjoying it and, and, uh, doing it for the right reasons. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming by. That's my pleasure. You're an inspiration, Rebecca. Can I call you Reb? Yeah. All right. Reb. So, uh, if people want to connect with you further,

you're on Twitter at Rebsoni, R-E-B-S-O-N-I. And you're on Facebook too. What is that? Facebook is the same Rebsoni, Rebsoni.com, TheAtlasVentures.com. Yeah, it's all Rebsoni. It's all there, yeah. You're very integrated in your brand.

What's next? Are you going on another road trip? No, I'm just going to stay home for a while. Enjoy summer at the beach, building the website business, the company, uh, just figuring out how to, how to keep on pursuing this. So if there's coaches out there that are interested in this idea of having you come and speak to their, to their kids through the, what's the best way for them to reach you through Alice Venture? Yeah. Yeah.

We have a, you know, a form on the website and, uh, the emails on there and, and pretty much anywhere, Facebook, Twitter,

check them all. So, um, yeah, I'll find, if you find me, I'll, I'll see you.

All right. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks so much. Yeah. Cool. My pleasure, thanks so much. Yeah. Cool. My pleasure.

Are we good? Yeah. Talk about anything else you want to talk about? I love yoga. Okay, good. That's for the next podcast. Yeah. All right, peace.

Plants. All right, everybody, that's our show. How'd you like that? How'd you like that too for this week? Pretty cool, right? Rebecca's a special girl and it was great to have her on the show and I hope you guys enjoyed it.

Again, even if you know nothing about swimming, it's hard not to fall in love with her. She's awesome. So that's it. Before we go, I wanted to mention my course at mindbodygreen.com, The Art of Living with Purpose, How to Set and Achieve Goals, Transform Your Life, and Become Your Best, Most Authentic Self. So if you tune into this podcast because you're feeling stuck in your life, you're looking for a different way, but you don't know how to find that exit ramp off, or you're just generally stuck and need a kick in the pants, then this course might interest you. It's over two hours of streaming video. I've got downloadable tools and resources

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